November 25, 1998 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS Vol. XLIII No. 48

The House met at 2:00 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Snow): Order, please!

Before we begin our routine business for the day, the Chair would like

to take this opportunity on behalf of all members to welcome to the House of Assembly,

seventeen Canadian Law students and their teacher, Mr. Richard Knapman, from E.J. Pratt

High School in the District of Trinity - Bay de Verde.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Statements by Ministers

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Mines and Energy.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FUREY: Mr. Speaker, on behalf of my colleague, the Minister of

Industry Trade and Technology, I would like to take this opportunity to provide an

overview to the House of Assembly of the benefits that have, and will continue to accrue

to Newfoundland and Labrador from natural resource developments in our Province,

specifically in the oil and gas, hydroelectricity and mining industries.

Four major oil companies, Mobil Oil, Husky Oil, Norsk Hydro and Petro

Canada, have opened offices in the Province and employ a total of 80 people. This is

addition to HMDC, which employs in excess of 700 people in the Province today. Halliburton

will also generate up to 100 new jobs at its Integrated Well Services facility located in

that great City of Mount Pearl.

The Terra Nova Alliance employs approximately 280 staff and

contractors. In addition, the fabrication of two modules for Terra Nova at the Bull Arm

site, costing $100 million, will employ approximately 700 people. It is estimated that

approximately 1,100 people will be employed by the project during the pre-production

phase. Furthermore, 450 long-term employment positions will be created during the

operations phase. Mr. Speaker, 80 per cent of the total employment activity in the Terra

Nova development will occur in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador.

The Hibernia project generated significant employment during

pre-production phases, and continues do so now during the operations phase. Additional

employment opportunities will result from related infrastructure developments. For

example, 40 to 50 Newfoundlanders and Labradorians will be employed at the recently opened

$200-million Transshipment facility built by the Hibernia consortium at Whiffen Head.

Activity is ongoing for the Terra Nova Project. For example: The

provision of engineering and procurement services for the topsides will be contracted to

AGRA Monenco here in St. John's, to the Terra Nova Alliance. The provision of fire

detection and vessel control systems for the Terra Nova FPSO vessel by SEA Limited, here

in St. John's. The St. John's Dockyard Ltd. - NEWDOCK - announced plans this summer to

establish a Newfoundland capability to fabricate subsea template and manifolds systems for

the Terra Nova development. This led to an $8-million contract which will assist NEWDOCK

in positioning itself to complete subsea fabrication work on other petroleum developments

worldwide. NEWDOCK will also develop the ability to test subseas systems.

There are numerous other examples of contracts resulting from the Terra

Nova project that have been awarded to businesses which are competitive in this Province,

including services for freight forwarding, geotechnical, environmental, model testing,

telecommunications, and equipment supply. As the project progresses, additional supplies

and services will be required and companies in the Province will be in a position to meet

these requirements.

Since the Hibernia project began, over 6,000 purchase orders and

contracts were awarded to companies in this Province and approximately 100 firms in

Newfoundland and Labrador have entered into joint ventures with international companies

worldwide.

The skills and expertise gained by local companies and employees during

the construction and start-up phases of the Hibernia project have subsequently led to new

contracts and other opportunities in other parts of Canada and around the world. For

instance: Cahill State Electrical completed work on the Confederation Bridge at Prince

Edward Island; Pro-Dive Marine Services have secured contracts in the Nova Scotia

offshore; OIS Fisher Inc. is completing the inspection and maintenance services worldwide;

and Friede Goldman Marystown is completing rig modification for the Gulf of Mexico.

Newfoundland and Labrador will continue to benefit over the long term from these projects.

The Labrador Hydro Project is another example where the future

development of natural resources in this Province will contribute significant benefits. To

date, over thirty environmental and engineering contracts have been awarded, with total

value in excess of $10 million. Mr. Speaker, 85 per cent to 90 per cent of these contracts

were awarded to businesses with a presence in this Province, and to date more than 300

people in Newfoundland and Labrador have worked directly or indirectly on the Labrador

Hydro Project. It is estimated that when this project is under way, it will generate

70,000 person years of employment, with approximately 78 per cent of these positions

expected to be filled by Newfoundlanders and Labradorians.

The development of the mining industry has and will continue to provide

substantial benefits to this Province. In 1997, the Province's mining industry employed an

average of 3,000 people, with a total export value in the mining industry surpassing $1

billion Canadian dollars, making it the leading resource sector in the Province. The total

value of mining industry exports is again expected to exceed $1 billion this current year.

Mineral explorations alone in the Province are forecasted to top $50

million in 1998. It is estimated that $35 million will be spent in Labrador with most

exploration programs directed toward base mental targets. Mr. Speaker, exploration leads

to the discovery of new resources and, in turn, results in the generation of new wealth

through new investment and employment and business opportunities in one of this Province's

primary engines of growth.

The government has made it clear its position will not waver in its

commitment to ensure that the Province benefits from the processing of rich mineral

deposits such as Voisey's Bay.

It is important to recognize that this Province has benefitted from the

industrial benefits I have described and that there are significant benefits to be

realized from future development of natural resources in the Province. The Government of

Newfoundland and Labrador is committed to working cooperatively with industry to ensure

that these industrial benefits are maximized for our people.

Thank you.

AN HON. MEMBER: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Baie Verte.

MR. SHELLEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

This is the good news review. It is not enough that the Premier goes on

VOCM every Sunday and espouses for five minutes with all the good news reviews. It is not

enough that we have the VOCM Good News Review every day. Now the minister is going to take

up the slack in the House of Assembly with all these announcements.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SHELLEY: Mr. Speaker, there is no problem with good news.

Everybody enjoys a bit of good news, I guess, and to hear it again today in the House of

Assembly. There is no doubt that the offshore and the benefits that could accrue to this

Province, hopefully down the road, if we know it is five or ten years from now, hopefully

that they will come.

We can all look at mining and hope the possibilities and potential for

mining in the Province are significant and should be looked at in a positive vein. The

messages sent out to the Province as of late are not consistent with industry and what can

be done in this Province and where the real jobs accrue to this Province. We often wonder

about Hibernia and Terra Nova, about the real benefits that have come from there. A second

mixed signal we have gotten recently is about our resources again: IOC in Labrador West

and the benefits that come through there.

Yes, it is good to talk about some of the good news and it is good to

talk about our natural resources, but still the statistic remains today that last year we

got some $78 million from video lottery machines. What did we get from our resources and

royalty rentals? Some $29 million in rentals. That is what we are down to, those are

bottom-line numbers, that is where it lies today.

As we talked about yesterday, there are many people in this Province,

some who are going on short-term make-work projects, some 4,000 people, where do they go

after next April? Are all of our resources going to come back to benefit them so we can

put our own people to work in this Province? It is yet to be seen.

So as we watch the unfolding of the good news and the development of

our resources, we will see at the end of the day if the bottom line reads more jobs for

this Province. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi, does

the hon. member have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave!

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is no wonder that we have great difficulty telling the rest of the

country about our problems, and the 18 per cent-plus unemployment rate, and the

difficulties we have in meeting our commitments to keeping people above the poverty line

if we possibly can.

With all the good news that this government tells everyone, everything

is all right, everything is hunky-dory. We have $1 billion worth of mineral development in

the Province. If we were getting full benefits from our resources that $1 billion would

translate into more than $30 million in mining tax and royalties for the taxpayers of this

Province to meet its obligations to the people. There is something wrong there somewhere.

It is all very well to say that Petro Canada and Norsk Hydro, et cetera, have opened up

offices in the Province, but are they branch offices for the East Coast with main

headquarters in Halifax, or they are full centre offices for the offshore development

here?

The Terra Nova alliance may well employ 280 staff here. It should be

double that with the engineering work that is being conducted outside the Province. There

ought to be in place a board with the power to review and assess whether or not the

Newfoundland benefits are adequate for this Province. It involves labour, business and

government to review on an ongoing basis whether these companies are complying with the

requirements for this Province with the power to -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. HARRIS: - exact penalties for noncompliance. These are some of

the inadequacies, Mr. Speaker, of our policies that ought to be improved.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Works, Services and

Transportation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible)!

MR. MATTHEWS: Restrain your enthusiasm, I say to the Member for

Cape St. Francis.

Mr. Speaker, as many of my hon. colleagues are aware, in 1988 the

Peckford Administration of the day signed the Roads for Rail Agreement with the federal

government, which was worth about $800 million.

At that time, a total of seventeen different projects were approved to

provide safe, efficient transportation infrastructure throughout the Province. One of

those projects approved was the Outer Ring Road, a modern thoroughfare that extends around

the back of the capital city. It begins as a divided highway on the Trans-Canada Highway

near Pitts Memorial Drive and will continue through areas such as Thorburn Road, Pippy

Park, Portugal Cove Road, and tie into White Hills Industrial Park.

This morning, the Premier and I had the opportunity to roll out the

announcement of this project -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MATTHEWS: - officially opening the first completed

section of

the Outer Ring Road and allowing public access for the first time. We were joined by Mr.

Gerry Berigan, Regional Director General for Transport Canada, on behalf of David

Collenette, federal minister.

Mr. Speaker, this road is a significant part of the region's

infrastructure, and one that represents the new growth that is taking place in our

Province. It has numerous benefits. It will improve traffic flow in the capital city as

well as have a positive impact on traffic in nearby surrounding communities. It will

divert a great deal of the daily traffic from Kenmount Road which means less vehicles

travelling on one of the major thoroughfares throughout the capital city.

It will be of tremendous benefit to the motorists in Mount Pearl,

Paradise, and Torbay who want to access other communities - and St. Anthony, my hon.

colleague reminds me -, without having to travel through some of the other heavier traffic

areas of the city.

The provincial and federal governments have spent $35 million on

completion of the first

section of this road, the majority of it going to local

construction firms and local companies supplying goods and services and the like. There

will be a total expenditure of $68.2 million once the bifurcation road is completed

linking the Outer Ring Road to Kenmount Road.

We have now begun construction on the Goulds bypass road. In the

long-term we will be focusing on the bifurcation road and then the East-West Arterial at

some point in the future when funds are identified. This will be the final phase of the

St. John's Urban Regional Plan.

To date, we have completed 12 paved kilometres. Another 7 kilometres

are remaining, with an additional 2.5 kilometres to be done on the bifurcation road, which

is a total of 21.5 kilometres.

This morning, I outlined a great deal of the environmental precautions

taken in conjunction with this project, and I think it is important to briefly share that

with the Members of the House today, given the fact that when this project was announced

there was considerable issue raised with respect to it being transversed through a park,

and the fuss that was caused as a result of that.

As a result of the road going through we have already collected in

excess of 100 car wrecks, and have recycled them and put them to their appropriate resting

place. In conjunction with the Memorial University Botanical Gardens, 28,000 tons of

organic materials and other soils were used to rehabilitate Sheppard's Pit, which is an

abandoned gravel pit in the park area. The MUN Botanical Gardens is using the site as part

of a research project to examine the potential use of selective native plants along the

road's right-of-way in conjunction with present hydro-seeding practices of this

department.

Another 23,000 tons of organic soils were utilized to expand the

overflow area in the Pippy Park Trailer Park and to construct a planting berm along

Allandale Road. The berm was hydro-seeded and planted with tree seedlings by the Junior

Forest Rangers and local scouts.

Trees, shrubs and other items removed from the road construction zones

have been used by the Grand Concourse Authority for landscaping around newly constructed

trails within the City of St. John's by Booth Memorial High School and by other school

landscaping projects.

Various trees, shrubs and other plant materials obtained by the road

construction areas were placed in local nurseries for one winter and then replanted along

some recreated stream sections along the Outer Ring Road.

Finally, Green teams from Newfoundland and Labrador Conservation Corps.

were hired to carry out projects dealing with stream enhancement and fish habitat

improvements of a number of brooks that run across the Outer Ring Road.

As we continue the completion of the remaining major projects

identified as part of this agreement, similar measures will continue to be taken to ensure

that the environment is protected and, where possible, enhanced.

My department has received a great deal of positive feedback on the

road, and I encourage the hon. members of this House, my hon. colleagues, to get out and

drive the Outer Ring Road for themselves. I am confident that once they experience

first-hand how modern and efficient the Outer Ring Road is, the majority of them, if not

indeed I would suspect 100 percent of them, will be extremely pleased and delighted and

look forward to the completion of the rest that has to be done.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cape St. Francis.

MR. J. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the minister for giving me a copy of

his presentation here today when I sat in my chair in the House of Assembly, but I want to

congratulate the minister on a job well done.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. J. BYRNE: But, Mr. Speaker, the minister referred to: in 1988

the Peckford Administration signed the $800 million agreement. Now maybe what we should be

doing, if we are looking for a name, maybe we should be calling it the Peckford Parkway or

the Crosbie Freeway. Only for those people we would not have the Outer Ring Road today!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. J. BYRNE: I will make two points, Mr. Speaker. This Outer Ring

Road is professionally designed, there is no doubt about that, and it takes into

consideration safety issues, I would assume, I say to the Minister of Works, Services and

Transportation.

The minister referred to the surrounding communities like Torbay,

Paradise, Logy Bay, and those areas benefitting from this Outer Ring Road. They most

certainly will, and I can attest to that because I live down in Logy Bay.

AN HON. MEMBER: It should be called the Trans City Highway.

MR. J. BYRNE: There you go.

The other point in this presentation today, the minister announced

there is going to be a start of the Goulds bypass. Again, we can thank the Member for

Ferryland for presenting petition after petition in the House of Assembly for getting the

Goulds bypass.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. J. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, one thing that just came to my mind,

maybe we should call it the Trans City Highway.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. J. BYRNE: It is not a bad idea.

Mr. Speaker, the minister referred to other groups within the city

benefitting from this, the Grand Concourse for example. There is no doubt that they have

benefitted, and I congratulate the minister on that.

In all sincerity, this is something that is very beneficial to the City

of St. John's. I look forward to the completion to Torbay Road and Logy Bay Road, where

they will hook up to the White Hills. The minister tells me that the road will be

completed to Logy Bay Road in approximately two to three years.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. J. BYRNE: I am not going to congratulate you too much more. I

think I have done enough of that. I have a few questions for you that you might have to

address later on.

Anyway, it is a job well done and the city will definitely benefit from

the Outer Ring Road.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill - Quidi Vidi, does

the hon. member have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I was never an enthusiastic supporter of the Outer Ring Road so I am

afraid I cannot join in the celebratory mood that hon. members feel today.

Mr. Speaker, this road has been controversial and still is

controversial in terms of its necessity, in terms of its effect on the park, and in terms

of the value for money. If we went by what the Minister of Development and Rural Renewal

said yesterday, the same amount of money, based on the minister's formula, could have been

used in small business to produce 15,000 jobs on an ongoing basis.

So let's not assume that any money spent has the same effect, whether

it is spent on roads or whether it is spent on small business or spent on jobs. The same

amount of money, if it were used on small business development, would have created 15,000

jobs and we would have gotten some of our money back in terms of the taxes that would have

been generated by such a thing.

We have it, and we have to see what the effects of it are going to be.

We have to see what the costs of it are going to be to the city to connect up to it. There

are a lot of roads in this Province that need to be developed. This may not be the top

priority.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Cartwright - L'Anse au Clair, does she have

leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: No leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Does the hon. member have leave?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am wondering if we can connect the Outer Ring Road to the communities

in Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS JONES: Unfortunately, while I congratulate the accomplishments

of the people in the capital City of St. John's, it is very frustrating to be able to

share in the enthusiasm for this development.

As you know, I have communities in my district that still do not have

roads around the villages themselves, and we have communities that are still awaiting a

commitment on whether the Trans-Labrador Highway will reach their communities. Communities

like St. Louis are waiting for the minister to rise in this House and say that they will

be connected; but we understand why we are not in the Roads for Rail Agreement because we

never, ever got rails either. We are hoping that while the rest of the Province has moved

from rails to roads, that someday we are going to move into a road transportation system

as well.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Topsail, does he have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: Yes, Mr. Speaker.

AN HON. MEMBER: No.

MR. SPEAKER: No leave? They hon. member does not have leave.

The hon. the Minister of Forestry Resources and Agrifoods.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. K. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker, I would like to inform the Members of

the House of Assembly of the importance of the agrifoods industry in Newfoundland and

Labrador. its potential for further expansion and its contribution to the economy.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. WISEMAN: (Inaudible), Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Topsail.

MR. WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, I rise today in my place to say that I

sit here as a member who sits on the government side of this House, and I would like to

have the same privileges that every other member has. I am referring to the member from

Labrador, as a point, who can speak as an Independent member. What I am saying is that it

should apply to all members of the House.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

To the point of order, it is not a point of privilege and it is

certainly not a point of order.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

When Ministerial Statements are presented in the House, the Chair will

recognize the critic for the Opposition in response to that. Any member who speaks after

that is by leave of the House, and the hon. member does not have leave.

The hon. the Minister of Forest Resources and Agrifoods.

MR. K. AYLWARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to inform the Members of the House of Assembly of the

importance of the agrifoods industry in Newfoundland and Labrador, its potential for

further expansion, and its contribution to the economy.

Farm cash receipts have consistently increased in the last two decades.

In 1997, the farm cash receipts were $73.7 million. Our value-added industry is worth

approximately $300 million, and our industry employs in the vicinity of 3,500 to 4,000

people.

The dairy industry is alive and well with production tripling since

1983. The industry produces over $24 million of milk at the farm gate. Newfoundland dairy

producers, on average, are the largest farms in North America. The dairy industry has room

to grow, and will do so.

The value of locally grown chicken was about $40 million in 1997, with

a total volume of 22.2 million pounds, up 52 per cent in the last ten years. This

Province's per capita consumption is the highest in Canada.

The egg industry is worth $8.5 million and produces 6.7 million dozen

eggs. One hundred per cent of our eggs are produced by Newfoundland and Labrador farms.

The fur industry has taken a pro-active approach to expansion by

preparing a strategic plan. The industry can utilize local marine by-product wastes, has a

skilled, committed and knowledgeable human resource, and has a base of superior breeding

stock. The fur industry is on its way to bigger and better things.

Our livestock sectors, such as hogs, beef and sheep, make significant

contributions as well. Their farm cash receipts are in the vicinity of $4 million.

The berry industry has sales at the farm gate in the vicinity of $1.1

million. With growing consumer awareness for healthier products such as cranberry juice,

our organically grown wild berries and the market opportunities make it very stable. We

also have the Markland Winery producing some of the healthiest wines in Canada and North

America. Over 10,000 people supplement their incomes from wild berry harvesting in this

Province.

Vegetable production is worth $4.8 million and has a great potential

for secondary processing opportunities, and we are exploring those as we speak.

The floriculture and nursery sector is the fastest growing industry in

agriculture. It is up over 120 per cent in the last ten years. The value in 1997 was $8.9

million.

Mr. Speaker, we have an aggressive research and development program

that includes: alternative feeds, which is a strategy to reduce feed cost to producers

through utilizing more waste products and through growing grains and corn. This reduces

reliance on imported feeds. Livestock producers are annually importing over 50,000 tons of

feed. We want to change that, and we are.

We assist with livestock and crops that require diversification to

provide stability. We are also researching and experimenting with new crops such as

currants, partridgeberries, cranberries, ginseng, and others.

We have plotted a course for the future of agrifoods through the

development of the Agrifood Strategy. Today, I would like to table that Agrifood Strategy

for the House of Assembly so that anybody who is interested in the agrifoods industry will

have the opportunity. We are also doing an advertising campaign to promote awareness of

agrifoods in this Province and that is working quite well.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair is going to look for direction from the members here, because

we are now ready to move into Question Period. The Opposition has not had an opportunity

to respond to the Ministerial Statement. It is Private Members' Day. Unless members are in

agreement that we stop the clock, or we move the Private Members' Day ahead, then the

Chair will have to call Question Period.

MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, let me, if I might, say that this side will

give leave for half the amount of time that the Official Opposition spokesman requires on

this, but we will not do that today for any other individuals in the House.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader, to the point of

order.

MR. SULLIVAN: Mr. Speaker, at the time we would get a running

thirty minute Question Period and the time would come out of private members. It is normal

only for the critic to respond anyway, so we certainly agree with that.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bonavista South.

MR. FITZGERALD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to thank the

minister for his statement prior to the opening of the House.

I say to the minister that farming is one industry that offers great

hope for rural Newfoundland and Labrador. Sometimes when you are talking to other people

outside the Province, and I know especially in my district, when they ask me what

activities take place here and you say, fishing, logging, and farming, they look at you as

if you are telling them a falsehood; because they do not realize what the farming industry

means, or that it is happening right here in this Province.

I say to the minister, having said that, that the minister and his

department should start paying special attention to what is happening in the farming

industry. He spoke about root crops here. It was only this year that the potato farmers -

and it happened on the West Coast, I think, for probably the first time - saw a blight

affect the potato crops that is probably going to ruin some farmers. It is nothing new

right here on the East Coast because it has happened the last three years in a row. I say

to the minister, this is what happened in Ireland in the 1800s when they had the famine,

the agricultural famine, the potato famine over there.

Another issue is the damage that moose caused to farmers' crops. This

is something that I have brought up here in the House many times since I have been

elected. It is moose here on the East Coast; it is caribou and moose on the West Coast. I

think that the minister's department has the answer in solving this problem, if he would

only show some initiative and go out and allow a simple thing as a early hunt to take

place prior to the regular hunting season. This is a real problem, it happens on a yearly

basis, and it has the potential to ruin farmers.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. FITZGERALD: The dairy industry in this Province provides

employment. It provides opportunities for many people to live and support their families -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. FITZGERALD: - and most of the dairy farmers in this Province

now are self-sufficient in feed for their animals. I commend them for that and I thank the

minister for showing some initiative.

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

On August 31, government announced a review of its policies with

respect to small hydro projects, cancelling some of the ongoing initiatives and adopting

the very policy this party presented in February of 1997.

I would like to ask the Minister of Mines and Energy today: Will he

take this opportunity to update the House, and through the House to people of the

Province, on this review?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Mines and Energy.

MR. FUREY: Mr. Speaker, I think that question is better put on the

Order Paper because I could take up the whole of Question Period talking about the energy

review, its purposes, its mandate, and those kinds of things.

Mr. Speaker, we are not immune to listening to reasoned argument, if

the Opposition puts forward reasoned argument. As I said in my answers to questions at

that point in time, if there was no attraction of legal liability we are certainly willing

to look at these things. We were looking at small hydro, but I ask him to bear something

in mind. We are limited in the amount of hydro left in this Province for future

development, and they are limited to - the cleanest form of electricity, of course, is

hydro, and we are limited by the 150 megawatts of clean hydro power that is left. That is

the future growth.

As he knows, on a separate track, we are dealing with the federal

government in a sub-working table to look at the cost of managing the in-feed cost to

carry some of the gigantic power resources from Labrador into the Island.

That is all part and parcel of the total energy review, but it would

take me the entire Question Period to take him through the processes and what we are doing

with respect to consultations, et cetera, to arrive at an energy policy for the Province.

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the

Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: I understand the issues confronting the energy needs

of the Province. I want to say to him, all I asked was: Could he update us on the review?

Is it under way? Is there a completion date? Those are the sorts of things generally we

are after.

I would like to ask him this: In announcing the review, the Premier and

the minister said they would retain specialized expertise to advise on scientific and

technical matters. Can he tell us who these experts are, and what exactly their areas of

expertise are? For example, have you retained experts in environmental assessment,

wildlife, alternative energy sources, as well as energy production, pricing, and

economics?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Mines and Energy.

MR. FUREY: Mr. Speaker, again that would require a very long

answer. Suffice it to say that the terms of reference for a number of specialized

consultants are being finalized probably within the next week or so, which would put us in

a position to go out and to start building that team of expertise.

I should point out that when we were dealing with the Lower Churchill

negotiations to arrive at a point in time where we could actually begin formal

negotiations, we had hired a number of experts, particularly in the U.S. The company that

comes to mind is Reid Consulting, who are world-class managers of electricity costs and

forecasting, and that kind of thing.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. FUREY: They are an established company that has been around, I

think, about seventy years.

Also, we hired some Washington consultants to help us to deal with the

whole business of the FERC rulings. The FERC rulings, as you know, opened up the entire

electricity market in North America into a deregulation period. So that federal agency -

there are massive piles of documents that had to be gone through and understood properly

in the context of how we would sell our power and transmit our power.

The short answer is that there are a number of consultants that we are

building into a team; we are finalizing the terms of reference probably in the next seven

days or so.

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the

Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: So we are clear, the questions today - the spirit and

the intent of them - are directly towards the private development that was occurring on

our lakes, rivers and streams. Governments then announced on August 31, a review that

effectively cancelled those private developments.

I would like to ask the minister this question: When the review is

completed, can he make a commitment that the entire review, all of it from page 1 to page

whatever, will be make public for the House and each member of the House, and through us

to the public generally, on what was said at that time and, I guess, the findings of the

review being conducted by your department?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Mines and Energy.

MR. FUREY: Mr. Speaker, the intention is to review energy policy

from top to bottom and to come to a conclusion on what our forecasted needs are; how we

should best meet those needs, particularly in terms of economic development. We are

looking at the whole package and it certainly is our intent to publicly consult with

stakeholders to look, as I have told you, at new and innovative ways to generate new

capacities of energy; because we are restricted right now to about 150 megawatts, as the

hon. member knows.

I have absolutely no problem making public a document, and the findings

and the research and the conclusions that we come to with respect to the energy policy

which we will hope will guide us for the next twenty or thirty years.

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the

Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: I want to be sure that I am hearing the minister

right; what is being conducted is a review. I will ask him a quick question before I get

to my next question. So government has not taken a firm policy direction with respect to

the privatization or non-utility generators, NUGS as they are often called, in terms of

saying there will be no privatization of lakes, rivers and streams. Has government taken

that direction, or are they just reviewing that policy as it now exists?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Mines and Energy.

MR. FUREY: Mr. Speaker, I thought I was clear but I will say it

again. We are limited by the amount of power that we currently have. The two larger

projects are Granite Canal and Upper Island Pond. When you go beyond that, you are into

projects that are roughly 20 megawatts and 30 megawatts, depending upon the river. Then it

goes down into rivers that are perhaps 15 megawatts and the like. What we have done -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. FUREY: I am going to answer the question, if you will allow me

to answer it. What we have done is we have taken two rivers that had a particular

contract, negotiated in good faith with Hydro, and we negotiated our way basically out of

it to pick up the costs for whatever those particular proponents had expended at that

given point in time.

So the two contracted rivers are now removed from the system. We have

frozen all other small hydro development until such time as the energy policy and the

experts that we will hire will review what is left on the Island and how we develop. Don't

forget, we cannot choke ourselves off. We cannot be so obstinate as to choke ourselves and

say: Nothing will be done. Because that will halt economic development and choke us off

from the rest of North America.

We will never be competitive if we have to, for example, bring on extra

thermal generation. Thermal generation handcuffs you to the price of oil. It is nice when

it is down, as it as currently has been for the last eighteen months, but if the price of

oil starts taking off as it did when we signed the Upper Churchill way back when, when oil

was $1 a barrel, look where it got us. We have to be careful not to hem ourselves in or to

take a political judgement because it is expedient. Let's rely upon the experts and let's

see what the experts have to say.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the

Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I agree we cannot hem ourselves in. The point we have made consistently

is that if development of lakes, rivers, and streams has to occur to meet the needs of

energy in this Province then it must be done, but must be done by Hydro alone. That is

what we said, Minister.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: So we are clear on it, that that is what the entity

is in place for.

You have talked about negotiating your way out of the two existing

agreements. Let me ask you this -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. E. BYRNE: Pardon me? It must have been. You certainly know,

because you must have gone to it. That is why you announced in September.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the minister this final question: Has

government or Hydro agreed to compensate for the contracts that have now been put on hold?

Has there been any form of compensation to the companies involved, either directly from

government or by Hydro? If so, how much? When was that decision made, and could you make

that public?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Mines and Energy.

MR. FUREY: Mr. Speaker, on the Web page I could not find your

document. I looked under www.wishy-washy and I couldn't find it anywhere.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FUREY: That should get another supplementary.

Mr. Speaker, let me make it clear again. There were I think from the

private sector about thirteen proponents, if my memory serves me correctly. During the

original bid there were four selected. Four were given contracts. Two are proceeding, two

were halted by mutual agreement with a payout for the costs up to that point in time. That

is what I just told you. I cannot remember the exact cost, but I think in one case it was

$800,000 for their cost to date, and the other one was either $400,000 or $500,000 for

their cost to date.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. FUREY: You know, you cannot have it both ways. If you want

those stopped there is a cost. Mr. Speaker, if you want the contracted rivers stopped as

you asked us to do, we went and negotiated and paid the fair price for the costs incurred

to date, as you asked. We did not want to attract legal liability by unilaterally

cancelling these contracts. Because then we are into massive lawsuits and you would be up

saying: How did you get into lawsuits?

Now, of the thirteen private sector proponents that put forward

proposals there were two left contracted which we mutually negotiated out, which frees up

those rivers, which says they will not produce hydro electricity and will carry on in

their natural state. Of the other eleven, there were no contracts in place, even though

proponents spent capital dollars to prepare for various calls.

For example, on the Voisey's Bay smelter, you will recall that when

Inco was talking about a very large smelter -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. minister to conclude his answer.

MR. FUREY: - it would require some - I think it is important, Mr.

Speaker, to answer this properly, fully and clearly for the hon. Leader of the Opposition.

There were some 200 megawatts at that time required for the smelter and

refinery. When Hydro went out for a proposal it attracted, I think, twelve or thirteen

propositions from the private sector, as well as Newfoundland Hydro themselves. We are not

liable for those costs. These are private individuals and private companies that expend

significant sums of money to prepare very complex documents to put them in a bidding

process, but that does not attract any costs for the Province.

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the

Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would have assumed that as the former Minister of Industry, Trade and

Technology he could find his way through the Internet. If I could just get the attention

of one of the Pages, if you would like to have a look at the policy, I have a copy here

for him, if you want to pass it over to the minister.

The question is simply this, I guess. In asking the question of

compensation, could the minister make a commitment today to table exactly what the

compensation was for the companies involved - he has indicated that in one case there was

$800,000 -, to whom, and when the compensation was made, so that we all can have a look at

the sums of money involved?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Mines and Energy.

MR. FUREY: Mr. Speaker, it is absolutely no problem to do that. I

went off the top of my memory which is sometimes dangerous to do, but I thought it was -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. FUREY: Now, Mr. Speaker, keep that attack dog under control, or

at least feed him once a week.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FUREY: Mr. Speaker, I said off the top of my head that I

thought it was roughly $800,000 in one circumstance and about $400,000 or $500,000 in the

other. The specific details, the specific companies, I will be happy to do it and make it

public as soon as I can.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My questions today are to the Minister of Health and Community

Services. I am sure the minister is fully aware of the tragic death that occurred at St.

Clare's Hospital this morning. I want to ask the minister if she will confirm that this

man in his early thirties was at risk. He was under constant care, twenty-four hours a

day, until yesterday, when he was put on close observation. That is every fifteen minutes.

I ask the minister would she confirm that.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community

Services.

MS J.M. AYLWARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It was interesting earlier today when I said no. One of my colleagues

mentioned about this incident and I said: No, it would not be an issue that would be

raised today because of the sensitivity of the matter. Because, in fact, Mr. Speaker, this

man died less than twelve hours ago. I think, out of fairness to the family, it is in very

poor taste at this point in time that this issue be raised in a political forum when the

member opposite knows there is a press conference being held at 3:00 p.m. today.

I would say again that I would like to express our sincere condolences

to the family at this time. I would ask the member, if he would, at least wait until more

than twelve hours have passed, get the information from the CEO, and we would only be too

happy to speak about it at another time.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

A press conference is occurring, as the minister said, that is correct.

That is not the point of the question. The Minister of Health and Community Services has a

responsibility for the protection of people in this Province today, this very minute, and

yesterday! Minister, I am asking a question to you. Less than four months ago I had

several calls from people concerned, calls from families of people who were involved. Less

than four months ago a person fell from a seventh floor of the very same hospital to his

death. I mean, that is very unfortunate.

I want to ask the minister: Why aren't people who are at risk, I say

the minister, placed on a psychiatric floor, or at least in a place where they are safe,

and not on the highest floor of a hospital? That is her responsibility.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community

Services.

MS J.M. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker, I think we have really fallen to

extremely low levels here today, and I'm embarrassed to be a part of this, but I will

certainly answer this part of the question. I would say again I would like to offer my

sincere condolences to the family.

I ask that the member opposite at least wait until more than twelve

hours have passed. We know right now that as we speak they are preparing to address a

number of issues around this incident. The member opposite also knows that in regard to

the previous incident the chief medical examiner, in fact, would have done a full

investigation and presented that report to the Minister of Justice. I think, in the

fairness of what is happening, let's try to keep the politics out of this very serious

instance until a reasonable period of time has passed, and then I would only be too happy

to answer. Please, I urge the member opposite to show some compassion and some

consideration for what has just happened.

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is this minister who is making this political, I say to the

minister. This problem is not a medical one, it is an administrative problem. People who

enter institutions in our Province who are at risk deserve to get the protection that

their families and the public expect in those institutions. Now, do we have to go through

a scene like we saw at the Health Sciences before where we had several deaths before

something was done.

I offer my deepest sympathies to the family head. It is not political.

If the minister wants to think this is political... I ask the minister, before anything

happens again, will you move immediately and demand, as the person in charge of health

care in this Province, that all psychiatric patients and patients who are at risk in

hospitals today are placed on a psychiatric floor or in a place where they are safe so we

can never have this happen again?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health & Community

Services.

MS J.M. AYLWARD: It is with regret again, Mr. Speaker, that I stand

to answer this type of question at this point in time, but I will say, unlike the member

opposite, I have a lot of confidence in the staff. I have a lot of confidence in and

support the CEO and the board. I know that nobody intentionally puts anyone at risk, and I

am not even admitting to any risk.

What I am saying today is in the interest of the family, and of the

staff that have to deal with this incident right now, who are very concerned and have

undergone critical stress debriefing, in addition to the family members, I urge the member

opposite to show some compassion, some consideration for the family and staff involved,

until such time as this can be addressed in the proper way. Please, I ask the member

opposite to show that compassion.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's East.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: (Inaudible)!

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Mr. Speaker -

MR. TULK: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

On a point of order, the hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. TULK: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

Let me point out to the Speaker what I just heard from across the

House. The fact that the Minister of Health & Community Services was playing politics

with this very tragic -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. TULK: I say to the hon. gentleman, I will make the point of

order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, what the hon. gentleman is doing is imputing

motives to the Minister of Health & Community Services about something that she said

in this House, that she is playing politics with this very tragic incident.

My point of order is that the hon. gentleman should not do that. He

knows he should not do it, and he should take -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: (Inaudible)!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. TULK: Before, Mr. Speaker, he accuses the Minister of Health

and Community Services of doing that kind of thing, he should take a good look in the

mirror.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

There is no point of order.

The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. SULLIVAN: Yes, there is no point of order, Mr. Speaker. I

accept that ruling here. It is very unfortunate that I had to listen to this nonsense in

the House today.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for St. John's East.

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My questions this afternoon are for the Minister of Justice and

Attorney General. They have to do with an issue of policing. It has become a topic in the

past several months, and again today there are media reports, on the issue of staffing of

the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary. We saw back in September the Royal Newfoundland

Constabulary Association showing concern that members of the street drug team were being

reassigned to other duties due to the need for resources in other areas of the department.

We see today, and we hear repeatedly, concerns by members of the Royal Newfoundland

Constabulary that since 1991 we have seen a reduction in the personnel of the Royal

Newfoundland Constabulary of some seventy members. We also see a statistic that

Newfoundland has the highest population-officer ratio in the country, and we see a

population shift to urban centres in this Province, namely centres that are patrolled and

under the jurisdiction of the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary.

My question to the Minister of Justice and Attorney General is simply

this. In view of these expressed concerns, Mr. Minister, by both membership and personnel

of the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary through their association, and indeed the public

at-large, what steps will you take to ensure that the public of this Province is

adequately protected.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice.

MR. DECKER: Mr. Speaker, let's put the issue in context first. This

is not the official position of the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary. These remarks are

attributed to Mr. Cadigan, who is a lawyer working for the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary

Association.

The Association at this time is in negotiations with Treasury Board to

negotiate salary matters and others. No doubt, Mr. Cadigan is doing his work and is trying

to drum up public support to get people on side with the police.

The only problem is that some of the statements the man is making are

not accurate. In the paper he said that there were 383 officers employed in the RNC

jurisdiction in 1991.

I have a note here from the police itself. Three hundred and

eighty-eight, the paper says. On April 1, 1991, the actual police strength in the Royal

Newfoundland Constabulary was 359 police officers. They were authorized to have 377 but

the actual number was 359 not 388.

Mr. Cadigan goes on with his alarmist remarks. He further stated that

break and entries are occurring at alarming rates in recent months. The RNC says

statistics complied by the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary for the past five years reveal

minor fluctuation in the break and entries and an overall decrease in robberies.

Mr. Cadigan quotes: Figures for 1997, provided by Statistics Canada,

show Newfoundland in well out front of all other provinces, as well as the national

average, in population per police officer.

These same statistics would suggest to you why that is the case. During

the same period, 1997, the same statistics point out -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. minister to conclude his answer quickly, please.

MR. DECKER: - that Newfoundland had the lowest provincial crime

rate in Canada in 1997 compared to twenty five cities -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DECKER: Compare St. John's with twenty-five other cities in the

country with a population - Newfoundland comes twenty-fourth out of twenty-five with

respect to robberies.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. minister to conclude his answer quickly.

MR. DECKER: Twenty-two out of twenty-five with break and entries;

twenty-five with respect to motor vehicle tests. That should answer the question as to why

we have the ratio that we have.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. the minister to take his seat.

MR. DECKER: We do not have the crime. If the hon. member wants more

police officers, maybe he should go and cause more crime.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

A supplementary, the hon. the Member for St. John's East.

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Mr. Speaker, these are the words of the Minister

of Justice and Attorney General for the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. It is a

shameful comment for him to make.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to make the following comments in response to

what he is saying. In addition to what the police officers themselves are saying - in

fact, there is a lady in my district who operates a store in the Churchill Park area, who

has had her business enterprise broken into on five different occasions since January of

1998. She has gone public, and she has said the problem is the result of an inadequate

complement of police officers.

There are convenience stores and grocery stores and garages who cannot

find staff and personnel to work these particular grocery stores late at night and in the

early morning hours. They are simply afraid.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. member to get to his question.

MR. OTTENHEIMER: We have senior citizens who have expressed concern

repeatedly that they are afraid to remain in their homes alone.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. member to get to his question.

MR. OTTENHEIMER: I say to the minister: There is a problem, there

is a concern. He has the statistics. When is he going to do something about it and

recognize the problem with respect to personnel of the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Justice.

MR. DECKER: Mr. Speaker, yes, there is a concern and I certainly

would apologize. My last remark, an attempt at humour, was obviously unfair and I withdraw

that last remark. I certainly do, Mr. Speaker. If a shop owner has her store broken into

five times, it is a very serious matter. There is no doubt about that.

I just returned from a Ministers of Justice conference from across the

country, which I was at earlier this month, and there is indeed a perception across the

country that crime is on the increase; but the perception does not match the reality.

Now there are times when there are fluctuations and, as was pointed out

here in the statistics from the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary themselves, there have

been minor fluctuations. What we have witnessed from time to time is a fluctuation, but

when you look at the overall statistics there is, in fact, a decrease in crime across the

country. Newfoundland is one of the lowest jurisdictions in all of the country for crime;

and St. John's, when compared to other cities of the size, is pretty near the bottom of

the whole country.

These are the facts. Let's not try to alarm people by trying to suggest

to them that this is a dangerous city in which they live, this is a dangerous Province in

which to live, when the statistics do not bear that out. Remarks that the hon. member is

making are alarmist remarks, and the hon. member should have better sense. He has been in

a lawyer's position -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. minister to take his seat.

MR. DECKER: - he knows the harm that statements such as he is

making can cause. They are unwarranted, unfounded, and they are dangerous.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for St. John's

East.

MR. OTTENHEIMER: I say to the minister not to get overly excited.

Let's deal with this issue. Let's put it in the proper perspective. People have a right to

be safe. They have a right to be safe. They have a right to feel safe. People have a right

to be protected and feel secure in their businesses and in their homes.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member is on a supplementary; I ask him to get to his

question.

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Mr. Speaker, I ask the minister directly: Is he

saying that we now have an adequate complement of police officers with respect to the

Royal Newfoundland Constabulary in those jurisdictions over which the RNC has control? Is

that what the minister is saying?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice.

MR. DECKER: Mr. Speaker, the hon. member says that people have a

right to be protected, a right to protection, to feel safe and all of that. I would

suggest to the hon. member that with remarks like he is making, the position that he is

taking on this is really an attempt to alarm people for no reason. The statistics do no

bear out what he is saying.

The hon. member will know that since 1991 there have been changes in

the way that we police the area which is policed by the RNC, just as there have been

changes in areas where the RCMP is policing in the Province.

The paper talks about 388 officers. There were never 388; there were

359. There are less than that today, but since 1991 some of the duties that the RNC were

responsible for have been changed. For example, the Sheriff's Office assumes

responsibility for court security; that used to be the RNC. The Sheriff's Office has to

service subpoenas; that used to be the RNC. The prisoner escort is now done by the

Sheriff's Office; that used to be done by the RNC. The St. John's city itself assumed the

responsibility for the enforcement of parking regulations. So to compare 1991 with 1998 is

comparing apples and oranges. There have been changes taking place, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Question Period has ended.

MR. DECKER: In addition to that, many jobs that were done by the

police are now done by civilians. So there have been changes for the better made in the

police force.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees.

MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, if I could, on a point of order, I think we

have reached a point - according to our Standing Orders - where we have to call Private

Members' Day.

MR. SPEAKER: Private Members' Day. Yes, I was just wondering if

members wanted to give us some notice of motion.

AN HON. MEMBER: No, Sir.

MR. SPEAKER: Okay.

Orders of the Day

Private Members' Day

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Burgeo & LaPoile.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RAMSAY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

This opportunity today gives rise to a chance for any and all of us, as

Members of the House of Assembly, to not only focus and congratulate the volunteers in our

given districts who work on behalf of the communities, who work as a part of the different

organizations that function in our different areas that look out for economic development

activities in the different districts, but it also gives us an opportunity to allow people

to see just how the overall approach that the government has taken to economic development

initiatives and our social strategy can come together. It is a matter of laying before the

House evidence of the overall approach to tying together the different, and some would say

sometimes competing, interests of the economic development activities to compare and

integrate those with the social side.

Now, I put down this resolution. There are a lot of positive things out

there. The government has been trying to inform the public over the last couple of years

of the positive approach we have been taking to economic development. It really does need

to be laid before the House as well and put on the record for the future, because as we

move forward into a more prosperous future we will evidently see that this was the

groundwork that was laid that will have helped us to arrive at success at some future

point.

We are having successes in different locations throughout the Province.

We have initiatives which have been undertaken. I want to, for the benefit of all hon.

members, put forward for you today some evidence of the effectiveness of the approach

being taken through the strategic economic plans of the twenty Regional Economic

Development Boards, and also the overall strategy and policy of the government when that

comes to tying together all of these initiatives, with the potential for social audits by

the group responsible for the social side of initiatives undertaken by the government, and

to make sure there is a coordinated approach to the overall policy initiatives of

government.

For the benefit of the record, although it is written here, I want to

read the resolution into the record. It goes as follows:

WHEREAS the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador has initiated a

planned approach to focus on the key areas of social and economic development in the

Province; and

WHEREAS government in consultation with economic development partners

throughout the Province has established Regional Economic Development Boards (REDB'

s) in

20 economic zones throughout Newfoundland and Labrador; and

WHEREAS the regional economic development boards are grassroots

organizations within both urban and rural centres in the Province which are implementing

strategic economic plans for their region based on local and provincial consultations; and

WHEREAS the Premier's Council on Social Development has been

established to oversee the implementation of the Newfoundland and Labrador Strategic

Social Plan; and

WHEREAS the Strategic Social Plan has evolved out of one of the most

thorough and far-reaching consultations on a social strategy ever undertaken in

Newfoundland and Labrador - and possibly even in Canada; and

WHEREAS the Strategic Social Plan and Strategic Regional Economic Plans

of the REDB's are a cornerstone of the path chosen by the people of the Province for our

future social and economic development;

THEREFORE

BE IT RESOLVED that this House now go on record as supporting

and encouraging the regional economical development boards in the implementation of their

strategic plans and the many hard working grassroots volunteers to continue their

excellent work on behalf of the people of the Province;

AND THEREFORE BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED this House support and encourage

the continued linkages and working relationships between the social and economic

developments sectors of the provincial strategies for economic renewal and social

responsiveness.

Mr. Speaker, there are a lot of good things happening in the Province

today. There are regional challenges, of course. I have a lot of regional challenges in my

own area, a lot of the other MHAs have problems and challenges in their areas, but the

overall positive message cannot be quelled, it cannot be put down, it cannot be minimized

in any way. Because there is a lot of good happening here in the Province.

I have recently attended some meetings with economic zone partners in

my district, as I am sure most hon. members here have also been involved in some of these

consultations on the strategy and approach being taken by the strategic planning models

that have been developed everywhere throughout the Province. It is almost as if in each

zone you are seeing a coming together of all of the people who in the past would compete

for initiatives, would compete on different things for economic development. They are

starting to focus and channel their efforts, almost as if they are pulling on the same

piece of rope, trying to tug away, to do the best thing for their given district. It is

proving to have some results, even if in some respects at this stage of the overall

development we are seeing just the leading edge of what will, we would hope, achieve

success.

We are seeing that coming together. The past difficulties in local

communities is dissipating. That working together is bringing communities that are diverse

and some distance apart together for economic development purposes. All of us who have had

doubts in the past about how these initiatives would work, I think it is giving us some

strong evidence of the fact that the plan itself can work and it can work well.

Let's look at some of the things that government itself has done on the

economic policy side. This is how I would like to do it. I would just like to talk about

some of the economic support initiatives that government has undertaken - through the

Regional Economic Development Boards and with their support and overall facilitation in

the different districts -, and then also to talk about some of the social elements of the

overall initiatives that are being undertaken under the Strategic Social Plan, and how

that can then come together. Along with hearing from other Members of the House on this

initiative, I would then like to try to bring it together in my closing remarks later.

Just look at some of the things that have been done. The business

investment fund under the Department of Development and Rural Renewal has been a

cornerstone of the provincial government's input and financial support for economic

development initiatives in the Province. It has become one where they have put forward

some $7 million per year, and they are also continuing to manage an investment portfolio

of some $160 million. That $160 million investment portfolio, which resulted out of

previous organizations and other initiatives, these are repayable monies to the treasury.

Those repayable monies are generating a return to government - in repayment of debts and

purchase back of equity positions taken by Enterprise Newfoundland and currently through

the Department of Development and Rural Renewal - of some $16 million back to the treasury

on an annualized basis.

That it is providing flexibility on the economic development side. It

proves that some good prudent fiscal management efforts have been taken by the investment

analysts, those who look at the different proposals and determine as to whether government

should put the money in to them or not. It is obvious that some success is there.

The overall default on a lot of this money that is out in the economy

is small. Really, if we look at it, we have supported some 3,600 jobs through the

facilitation of that $160 million in total, and $7 million that has been invested over

each of the last two years. Those 3,600 jobs have in fact been not only created but in

some cases supported and maintained. That is a key element of what is happening out there

in rural Newfoundland.

Furthermore, the government has some cost-shared initiatives. We have

the SRDA agreement, which has seem some $30 million invested in the provincial economy

Newfoundland and Labrador. That $30 million has been put in to some 112 initiatives

throughout the Province. That in turn is generating also significant benefits for the

provincial economy.

Transitional Jobs Fund, seen significant investments to the tune of $41 million of federal

funds entirely. That $41 million is coming out of the employment insurance initiatives.

That money has gone into 155 different projects throughout the Province. That is having a

positive impact and it is not entirely just a federal issue at this stage. Because all

dealings with the federal government now where they invest in initiatives in the Province

are done on a consultative base with the Department of Development and Rural Renewal. So

we can see that although we do not have any direct financial involvement on TJF

initiatives, we sometimes are involved in putting other monies in there. We do give what

someone would refer to as a government blessing to these initiatives when they are brought

forward.

Under the Comprehensive Labrador Agreement, and I think one of my

colleagues will comment further on this, there has been some $3.8 million in initiatives

this year alone. That has gone into some thirty-three different areas in Labrador. I would

hope he is able to comment further on some of these initiatives, and the necessity and the

overall positive impact they are having on the economy there.

There are two others I want to mention before I get directly into my

own district. One is the Economic Renewal Agreement, which has seen $100 million of

investment in the Province. That $100 million has seen $20 million going to the area of

aquaculture, which is a key element of the overall provincial strategy for renewal of the

fishery. Also, it is a development of new technologies, and something I have had the

pleasure to be involved with very closely over the last little while, particularly with an

American aquaculture company interested in coming to set up shop in my own district. I am

very pleased with that initiative.

We have seen some $22 million under the Economic Renewal Agreement

invested in tourism. That is also another positive. That has seen positive benefit and

results in tourism infrastructure and the overall approach taken to the promotion of

tourism in the Province. We will get much in the way of results in the future with the

increase in visitation and the overall ability of local economies to captivate people or

capture them on their travels around and keep them interested in spending money and

staying for a longer period of time when they come to visit.

Furthermore, over the next three years, we have the labour market

development agreement which is seeing significant quantities of government funds going to

support the labour market development. It is really helping us in the overall strategy of

what is going on in the Province.

All of these positive amounts of money are creating good economic

benefits for the whole Province. It is Province-wide, it is not just urban. It is

generally more rural in its overall focus and where the monies are being concentrated. It

is something I think that we have to make sure we have to get on the record in the House

of Assembly.

In my district we have seen the development of a significant number of

initiatives currently underway. There are many developments underway in the community of

Burgeo. I have been actively involved with the fish plant operator there, Seafreez, and

other local partners to oversee a strategy to get the fish plant in Burgeo up and

operating again. We have good support from both the federal and provincial governments on

that initiative.

Recently the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture and I travelled to

Portugal to see the owners of the fish plant in Rose Blanche. That is actively being

pursued by no less that two potential operators at this stage who are interested in

working a deal out with the Portuguese owners currently to see that local plant up and

opening.

In the community of Burnt Islands, it is regrettable that the operator

there who has operated for many years, a person with a very strong business background,

Mr. Eric King, passed away over the past couple of weeks. He was a strong economic engine

for the community of Burnt Islands. His fish plant operated and continues to operate there

quite well through the moratorium on a fresh fish basis.

There are other initiatives that have been undertaken. The community of

Isle aux Morts has seen significant losses in the fishery over the past while, it has seen

a large out-migration, but as far as Isle aux Morts goes there is some hope. There is the

new operator from New Brunswick interested in locating there. So there are things

happening in that respect in the fishery.

Seafreez Operation in Port aux Basques is operating this past year as

much as it ever has. It has had the highest amount of employment in so far as the number

of employees over a long-term basis employed goes. That has seen significant improvements.

The other area we have to look at are tourism generators in my

district. It is noteworthy to point out that some of these are initiatives that were

brought to the table many years ago and have finally been brought to fruition in the

district as a result of the support of the local Regional Economic Development Boards, the

Southwest Coast Development Association and others. We have seen the development of a

railway heritage museum at the gateway entrance of Port aux Basques for people departing

the ferry. We have seen the development of the old stone lighthouse -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. RAMSAY: Mr. Speaker, could I have just a couple of minutes to

clue up?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. RAMSAY: Okay, if you want to fit it all in. That is fine. I

will be seated and conclude at the end.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Baie Verte.

MR. SHELLEY: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I wanted to stand today and make a few comments on what I believe could

be the debate of debates for this Province in rural Newfoundland and Labrador right now.

We are at a very critical stage in this Province's history when we talk about rural

Newfoundland and Labrador. As a matter of fact, I will go so far as to say it is the most

important debate of this Province's history at a very critical stage in our history. That

is what is happening with rural Newfoundland and Labrador, what makes Newfoundland and

Labrador so unique, not just to the country but to the world.

The uniqueness of rural Newfoundland and Labrador is known worldwide.

Not just across our nation, but it is known worldwide. It is the people, the culture of

this Province that we live in, that we are all so proud of.

The real fear - and I know that this fear is shared by many members in

the House of Assembly, as we see it. I want to go on record again, as I have done so many

times in this House of Assembly, as saying that when we do hear a good news story, and

when something happens in your district - and I have been on public record and in public

places where I have commended things. Of course, the media never carries when you have

commended good news stories that happen in your district. For example, North Co. Logging

Industry now in my district, the minister helped out with that. There was an initiative

driven by people locally in my district and I commended him publicly. We have done all

that.

I never have a problem with that. The record will always show in any

Hansard in this House since I have been here in five years that I have no problem

commending people - whether it is government officials, and especially local people - for

driving initiatives that make our Province more prosperous in coming up with jobs and

everything else.

I want to say it again, now, I am going to repeat that because the

minister just walked in. I want it on record again and I want to say it. I just made a

statement I would like for the minister to hear. I have said it many times in this House,

in every single Hansard - as a matter of fact, I have gone back over them just to make

sure that I have been consistent in saying it, and publicly at times with the minister and

so on.

We get back and forth in this House with some rhetoric and some

political games being played and so on about how we have to criticize the government and

the government has to say all the good things and so on. The truth is that we know there

is good news and bad news mixed in there. I want to go on record again today in saying

that there have been times when I have complimented or commended government officials,

right on up to the minister if I had to. That is how far I have gone publicly. When an

initiative was taken, especially by local people - and I used the example of North Co. in

my district - or anywhere around the Province, say with the seal industry, or wherever

there were initiatives taken at the grassroots level -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SHELLEY: I am being very serious with the minister. I have

commended people publicly in my district. I am on record. I have commended officials at

the time, right on up to the minister at that time, Mr. Speaker. The minister at that time

for forestry was the now Government House Leader. Where help has been -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SHELLEY: I do not want his head to swell too big here today. My

whole point in saying this, and I have done it, and people in my district know I have done

it, is that at those times we have commended each other, or where people have worked in

consultation with the government, where the government has helped them through a process,

and at the end of the day there was a job there. If it was one job or five jobs or ten

jobs, that was the goal. That is always the goal. I can be fair in saying that I think

that is the goal of every member who sits in their seats in this House.

Anytime I hear of a new initiative, of course in your own district, the

first question I ask anybody I talk to in business, and I'm sure the Member for Burgeo

& LaPoile is the same way, is: How many jobs are going to be there? That is my first

question in my district because we need the jobs. That is always the bottom line, that

four letter words, jobs. The keys is the s, jobs. Whether it is one or two.

I have commended different officials, and the bureaucracy a lot of

times that we condemn.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SHELLEY: The minister will get a chance to speak. I would like

to ask him to stop interrupting me now so I can make my points.

Mr. Speaker, I am trying to make the point that we all supply those,

and we do the rhetoric back and forth. It will always go on in this House of Assembly: the

rhetoric and politics played, the Opposition criticizing, the government saying everything

is wonderful, and so on.

Also, I am always a realist. I am an optimist but I am a realist. I can

list out ten things. I could take the minister's paper and go one, two, three, four, five,

six, seven or ten or twenty, or whatever it is.

MR. TULK: Why don't you?

MR. SHELLEY: I have done it. That is my point. I have said to the

minister already that I have done that, but the minister also has to come halfway and say

too that all the problems are not all solved. It is not all rosy out there. Many times it

is, Mr. Speaker. The good news review comes on and the big press conferences are called. I

will say this. Many are the times when we see these major press conferences about

mega-projects that they are going to take on. The people in rural Newfoundland and

Labrador, especially when they hear about the Hibernia -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SHELLEY: I will make the point again, Mr. Speaker. When the

people of this Province hear another big announcement about Hibernia or hear the minister,

like today, talking about Terra Nova and so on - I am not saying that it is not true what

he was saying, that there were fifty jobs here or seventy jobs there, but the people in

rural Newfoundland and Labrador, the people in Fleur de Lys, Ming's Bight, Rose Blanche

and other places are saying: I've been listening to this for twenty years, I have been

listening about Hibernia and the different governments over the years, but I wonder am I

going to get any benefit whatsoever from this great news that we hear about these

mega-projects? Are my roads going to be paved? Am I going to have a decent hospital in my

community? Am I going to get a job out of it? Am I going to be able to go to work because

of this great news that flashes across Here and Now and NTV and so on?

When the minister stands and makes the good news review, like we have

seen so often here, and we saw it again here today, the people who are sitting in their

homes in some of these communities and in Southern Labrador, as the member talked about

today, are asking: What benefit is that for us? Rightly so. They are not greedy, because

they are Newfoundlanders and Labradorians who own the resource that is in the ground in

Labrador City. They own the oil that is off our shores. They own the forest products that

are going out of here day after day. What the people in Newfoundland and Labrador,

especially rural Newfoundland and Labrador, are saying today is: With the bounty of

resources we have in this Province, there is something wrong.

We do not need a consultation team the minister talks about. I do not

need an expert from Ottawa to come down and tell me, when we have 150 years' worth of

supply of iron ore in Labrador West, that we only should get certain benefits from that.

The people in Newfoundland and Labrador are saying we should get it all. It is the proper

greed, and the greed has come to fruition for the simple reason that they have seen it so

often before. They have seen it so often before in this great Province of ours, a province

of 500,000 people, which has some of the best offshore potential in the world. We have

Voisey's Bay, the biggest nickel find in the world, we have Churchill Falls, the biggest

hydro development in the world, and here we are with 500,000 people, with 22 per cent

unemployed. There is something wrong!

Let's take it a step further. I think a lot of the members agree with

me -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SHELLEY: I am going to get to that point now, I say to the

member.

I think the minister agrees with me too. I am not doing this on any

particular time, I am not doing it on any particular party. I am just saying that

basically it is a history we should look back over. Everybody says history is boring but

we have to learn from our history.

Mr. Speaker, let's go another step further, let's bring this down

another stage. Let's talk about Labrador only. The land mass of Labrador has approximately

30,000 people. I don't think I am very far off. Now just try to put this in your pipe and

smoke it. Thirty thousand people there, and we have the Iron Ore Company of Canada, the

largest producer of iron ore in Canada, we have Voisey's Bay, the biggest nickel find in

the world, we have Churchill Falls, the biggest hydro development project in the world, we

have a bounty of resources in forestry up there that we have not even touched yet. We have

30,000 people. I don't know what the percentage is, so I will skip it for now and just say

a lot of people are looking for work day after day.

Especially what is significant about what happened in Labrador City

just a little while ago was that the people of Labrador - because I lived there. Not a

long time, I don't profess to be a Labradorian, but if you lived there - and it was for

six years - you got a feeling of what those people are talking about. My family still

works there. I still have brothers and sisters who work in Wabush and Labrador City. My

brother worked there for fourteen years. Good incomes are coming out of IOC. They are the

highest probably per capita, I would venture to guess, income revenue into the Province

through taxes, through their average salaries, in Labrador West. I would venture to say

that is right. Per capita, with the population size and so on, with the wages and

everything in the Labrador West area, they are probably the biggest contributor to the

provincial coffers with respect to income taxes and so on in the Province - personal.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SHELLEY: That is what I just said, the highest wages. Nobody

disputes that. I am just making the point that these people have contributed to the

economy, through the coffers of this Province, with their income taxes and so on.

That just adds insult to injury when people see what happened in

Labrador City. I am not going to get into the numbers or anything else, just the

principle. Forget the numbers, because companies can throw numbers at you on viability and

economic -

The minister will agree with this one. You are going to agree with me a

lot today, Minister, I would say. The minister will agree on another point I am going to

make, that companies - and he has dealt with lots of companies -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SHELLEY: I have sat around board rooms with some pretty big

companies, too, when they throw the numbers at you, and the statistics, and how

economically viable it is for them, and they have to take care of their shareholders and

so on.

Forget the statistics and the numbers that came at you, because here is

my stand on what happened in Labrador City. That company that was up there for

thirty-eight years to date, made anywhere near $40 million in some of their worst years

and up to $110 to $120 million profit a year, for thirty-eight years.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SHELLEY: They had some bad years, but on average the Iron Ore

of Canada did pretty good.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SHELLEY: I am not disputing numbers here today. Let me just say

this to the minister, to see if he is satisfied with this. Over thirty-eight years, the

Iron Ore Company of Canada has been a very profitable, lucrative company, and have done

very well here. Yes, they put people to work in Labrador City, but aside from the

statistics and the numbers that the companies throw at you, the bottom line is that this

company is about to now expand - and they expand for only one reason. Any company expands

for one reason, to make more money. At the end of the day the Iron Ore Company of Canada

is going to make more than they are making now. They are going to expand and modernize

because there are going to be less people working there.

The reality is that the Iron Ore Company of Canada is going to be

making more profits, they are going to have less people working from Newfoundland and

Labrador, and they are going to be shipping our resources out to benefit people in Quebec.

Now I say Quebec, but I do not care if it is Nova Scotia or Prince Edward Island or

anywhere else. I am talking about this Province. It should not be shipped anywhere. The

statistical numbers they use for their argument should be out the window.

Here is my bottom line on it: The Iron Ore Company of Canada should not

have the gall to even suggest that they are going to expand outside of this Province to

develop a resource that is in our Province. Before you get into numbers and throw around

statistics on feasibility, that is what I believe. That is what it comes down to in this

whole debate today in rural Newfoundland and Labrador, that the people of Labrador West

basically have hit the nerve.

What happened in Labrador West has hit the nerve of a lot of people in

this Province. Do you know what they said when they heard that announcement of IOC - the

people around my district and everywhere else that I have talked to - here we go again. I

thought we were going to be tough on our resources.

The statistic that we gave today is the only one we need to know in

this Province. Last year, $79 million for video lottery machines came into the government.

How much came in from our royalties on IOC and our forestry and fishery? Twenty-five

million dollars. That tells the whole story right there.

My point today is, yes we throw the rhetoric back and forth and we play

a little bit of politics back and forth, as they say. You can go on with whatever you

want. Yes, there are times when we commend small business and government's initiatives in

the right manner, but the question has to be asked: How much (inaudible) initiatives? At

the end of the day, the bottom line is how many jobs are created. Because we know right

now - and the questions we got after yesterday were for the future of this Province. I am

not worried about next week or next month. I am wondering about a year from now.

Those were the questions I asked yesterday to the Premier, that I

thought they were legitimate and specific. At the end of the day, next May or June, when

4,000 or 5,000 people are finished with the TAGS program and it is all dried up and the

federal government is saying, `That is it; we are tired of giving those Newfoundlanders

more money', then we are going to say: Now what happens? Where is the plan? What is the

plan for rural renewal? That is what we have to get down to.

The jobs and benefits from the small business initiatives will take us

in the right direction, but I am talking about an overall plan that is going to suffice,

that rural Newfoundland and Labrador survive.

Does the minister believe that those initiatives are enough at the

right time, or is it going to take too long. Where are we going from there?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SHELLEY: No, when you get up.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SHELLEY: Well, let me finish my remarks. I want to go on again

and finish it off, and try to summarize my main point for today.

There is no doubt about it that we all agree and we should acknowledge

that there are problems in rural Newfoundland and Labrador - a big part, in part, by the

fishery. Nobody can dispute that.

Secondly, some of the initiatives by the government towards small

business are a step in the right direction, there is no doubt about that. We commend that

part. What I am saying is, is it too little, too late? Is it going to be enough to suffice

the out-migration and the $40,000 -

MR. TULK: What does that mean, too little, too late?

MR. SHELLEY: Too little, too late.

MR. TULK: Is rural Newfoundland going to close down, or (inaudible)

stop out-migration next?

MR. SHELLEY: There is a danger right now in a critical time - and

this is the first remark that I started with, when the minister was not here - I think we

are at the most critical stage -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. SHELLEY: Mr. Speaker, all I am saying is that rural

Newfoundland and Labrador needs a desperate shot in the arm as soon as possible, and as

the end of the TAGS draws near we have to have a full overall plan that is going to carry

us past that stage.

MR. TULK: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Government House Leader, on a point of order.

MR. TULK: On a point of order, I understand that the outdated

Member for Cape St. Francis wants leave of the House to withdraw an outdated private

member's resolution. Since everything over there is outdated, we would like to have the

whole works withdrawn.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cape St. Francis.

MR. J. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, by leave.

The Government House Leader is partially right. I wish to withdraw, or

remove from the Order Paper, a private member's resolution that is not pertinent at this

point in time. By leave I would like to do that.

MR. SPEAKER: The Chair acknowledges the presentation made by the

member.

The hon. the Member for Topsail.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

It is certainly a pleasure for me today to rise in my place and speak

to this particular resolution; I might add in support. I should qualify what I am saying,

in support of.

I am a little bit surprised, I suppose, that we are even standing here,

even speaking on this particular resolution. I think we probably should have voted on it

immediately, because, you see, where it starts with:

WHEREAS the Government of

Newfoundland and Labrador has initiated a planned approach to focus on the key areas of

social and economic development in the Province.

Mr. Speaker, that says it all. This government has gone out and met

with the people involved. Unlike things in the past where it came down from the top, this

comes from the real people of this Province. It is their idea. It is what they want to do.

As I try to speak on this particular resolution, as usual, the members

opposite want to do a little cat-calling to try to throw me off in what I have to say. I

must say there are times that I am at loss as to the attitude and approach that comes from

the other side of this House. When I sit here and listen to the doom and gloom that comes

from that side of the House, it is a wonder that all of us did not commit suicide.

When you look back in our history of 500 years, and look at the

struggle that we have had, we have always made it. I could go back to 1985, and that was

not so very long ago. We had 24 per cent unemployed in this Province, 24 per cent.

MR. TULK: When?

MR. WISEMAN: In 1985. If my memory serves me correctly, I believe

it was the Tory Party who was in government at that time. If you look at statistics of

out-migration, and you look at 1979-1986, some 44,000 people left this Province, but that

does not make it right. They had a problem when they were here and they did not address

it.

I can say that when we came in here as a government in 1989, I was here

as an executive assistant to the minister. I recall that we were paying $550 million in

interest every year on the debt that was accumulated by the Tory government that had been

here for seventeen years; $550 million a year, $12,000 a minute.

They do not want to hear that. They do not want to hear about what the

past was like.

MR. SULLIVAN: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: On a point of order, the hon. the Opposition House

Leader.

MR. SULLIVAN: (Inaudible) certainly not pertinent to the issue.

Also, a correction there: The debt has increased by 40 per cent since 1989, if you look at

the total debt in 1989, I would like to remind the member.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

There is no point of order. The hon. member was taking advantage of the

process so he could further engage in debate.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Topsail.

MR. WISEMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

What I have said is very factual, actually. I know that the members

opposite have a great inclination to do what is right for this Province, but I do not

believe they have the inclination that we have on this side because we do things. It is

easy to sit over there in Opposition and say about all the things that they would do. It

is so easy.

MR. TULK: I have not heard anything they would do yet.

MR. WISEMAN: Well, they would do everything. The problem is that

there is not enough money in the country to pay for what they want to do. We have to be

responsible on this side of the House.

MR. TULK: They have an energy policy which says here: Newfoundland

and Labrador is without energy.

MR. WISEMAN: There you go.

Mr. Speaker, I remember back in 1992 when I was an executive assistant

to the Minister of Environment and Lands. I remember travelling across this country and

meeting with the Ministers of Environment. She was also the minister responsible for the

Status of Women. We all know that in any downturn in the economy it is the women who bear

the brunt of it. They are the people who carry the brunt of any downturn in the economy.

We told about the devastation that would happen and how crucial the

fishery was to this Province, but this Liberal government never gave up trying.

MR. TULK: No, and we are not going to either.

MR. WISEMAN: The Minister of Development and Rural Renewal says he

never will.

I should add that he did this in my district last night. He spoke to

the Chamber of Commerce and talked about the successes we have had with development in

this Province. It is through the Minister of Development and Rural Renewal that these

things are happening. He knows the Province, he knows the people, and he knows the issues.

He is very open to suggestions and very accommodating.

I heard the Member for Baie Verte talking about the devastation that is

happening in the Province, but he did not say what this government has done for his

district. He did not say that this government has invested some $868,372 in his district

since April 1, 1996. No, the Member for Baie Verte did not say that because that would not

be appropriate. That is good news. You are looking at resource development, logging,

mussel farming.

I believe all of us in this House have a responsibility to stand up and

say that which is right and that which is fair. Somehow, I guess, the political system

does not allow it. You cannot blame the system, I suppose; you have to blame the people in

it.

I remember travelling to Fortune Bay - Cape la Hune with the Minister

of Environment and Labour. In fact, we were there the day that the fish plant opened in

Gaultois. If you could see the look of joy on the faces of those people as that boat came

in loaded with redfish, and how enthused the people were as they milled around the plant,

getting ready to process this redfish.

Lo and behold, the first boat came in, and twenty minutes later another

boat came in loaded, and twenty minutes later another boat came in loaded with redfish.

That plant had been closed for some time. They had just been devastated because their

school had been lost in a fire; but did they give up? No, they did not give up. The member

for the area went down and met with them and met with the Minister of Education to find a

resolution to their problem. It happened because this government is a proactive

government. We don't sit back and hope that things are going to happen. We do them. We are

indeed a very, very active government.

The Strategic Enterprise Development Fund has invested in 502 projects

with $19 million, which levered an additional $71 million from other sources to create and

maintain some 3,500 jobs.

This morning I was at the opening of the Outer Ring Road with my

colleague, the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation, and the Premier. That road

begins in my district. Can you imagine how important that road network is to the people

who live in my district?

This Liberal government is putting in the infrastructure. We are

putting in place the infrastructure to carry the economy of this Province. We can entice

to Conception Bay South and Paradise, companies who have already invested in the offshore.

In fact, there is a building being constructed there right now.

I have to say, I was somewhat disappointed today when I rose in my

place to seek leave to respond to that statement made by the minister, because it is

important to the viability of my district and the people who live there. I was denied that

privilege by the Opposition. Yet, we give privileges to individuals who sit as

Independents and who sit as one individual representing themselves and a party. I believe

that if this House is going to be fair to all of us, then either nobody gets leave or we

all get leave to speak.

MR. FITZGERALD: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: On a point of order, the hon. the Member for Bonavista

South.

MR. FITZGERALD: Mr. Speaker, if the member is going to speak I

think he should make his statements accurate. I just heard the member say that he was

denied leave in this House to get up to speak about the opening of the Outer Ring Road. He

talked about a member here sitting independently, representing herself. I say to the

member that nobody sits in this House representing themselves. They represent their

district and their constituencies.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: To that point of order, the hon. the Government House

Leader.

MR. TULK: To that point of order, partially what he says is

correct. The last little part of the statement that she is representing herself is

incorrect. Technically that is incorrect, but the truth of the matter is that the Member

for Cartwright - L'Anse au Clair is a member of this House. She is not a member of a

party, so in that sense she is by herself, in the same way as the Member for Signal Hill -

Quidi Vidi.

The truth of the matter is that the hon. gentleman from Topsail has the

same rights as the Member for Signal Hill - Quidi Vidi and the Member for Cartwright

L'Anse au Clair.

The other truth is that one of the people who denied the hon. gentleman

leave to stand up and make a comment on something that concerned his district today was

the Member for Bonavista South.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'anse au Clair

speaking to the point of order.

MS JONES: Yes, please. Mr. Speaker, I want to clarify that I am an

elected official, the same as every other member in this House. I am here to represent the

people in my district and I have every right to speak, as does the Member for Topsail. I

do not think any member who has something to contribute in this House should be denied the

right to express their opinion and represent the people they are elected to.

MR. SPEAKER: I believe the points made by the hon. the Government

House Leader and by the hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair are appropriate, to

the point, and are accurate. It really is not the point of order that was raised, though.

There is no legitimate point of order.

The hon. the Member for Topsail.

MR. WISEMAN: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I raised that issue. I know it is not in keeping with the resolution we

are debating here, but it ties in pretty well because we are talking about development. I

am talking about the development in my district. I want to add that my district is a very

progressive district, the fastest growing area in Newfoundland and Labrador.

I want to tell you that the people in my area who are interested in

development are very active, and it ties in with this particular resolution because the

vast majority of those people -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. WISEMAN: By leave, Mr. Speaker, just to clue up.

MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave!

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. WISEMAN: The vast majority of those people are volunteers.

These are the people who advise government on how they wanted to see this Province

develop.

Just to tell you a quick little story, because I think it is important,

the business community is ready and willing to help rebuild this Province and to do

whatever it takes to get it moving. I can tell you that a company in my area spent some

$200,000 in the developing Topsail Beach, at no cost to the government, but government in

its wisdom gave them $40,000 to pretty well complete that job. Can you imagine that we

have business people in this Province who would donate $200,000 worth of time and

equipment to do a project, at no charge, to the community or to the Province? This

government is on the right path. Mr. Speaker, we will get there, and we will do a good job

for the people of this Province. Thank you very much.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am not used to all this applause in the House when I get to my feet

but I do appreciate it. I want to rise today and speak to the resolution that has been put

forward by the Member for Burgeo & LaPoile.

I want to start by telling you that the whole economic development

process is a process I was very close to prior to getting into politics. I was part of the

steering committee that was set up to set up the provisional boards, then I was part of

the provisional board process which did the consultations with communities who helped form

the framework for the economic development boards we have now.

When this whole process and concept was passed along to communities and

regions across the Province, it was difficult to get communities to buy into it because of

the fact they were losing an existing structure, because the rural development

associations would no longer be the regional economic arm for a lot of their communities.

It was difficult to buy in, but they did buy in to the process and they did become

involved in it.

What we have today is good, economic, strategic plans for all areas of

the Province. We have already mapped the groundwork for economic development and it has

been done at the grassroots level by people in their communities, in their particular

capacities, whether it be in business, fishery, forestry or whatever the case may be.

In addition to that, I can speak specifically for the two zonal boards

in my district. They have not only laid a strategy or the groundwork for economic

development, but they have also been very active in organizing a lot of the stakeholder

groups. They have organized women's groups along the Coast of Labrador, given them a

voice, a network, and an opportunity to be able to interact on social policy issues.

They have also been able to coordinate the youth, which was one of the

sectors - and you will probably find the same in most rural areas of the Province, and

especially in an area like mine where you have barriers to transportation. It is very

difficult to bring people and groups together. They have been able to do that with the

youth sector to a certain degree. They have also been proactive in representing industry

sectors. They have helped set up the first sawmillers association that we have, because

the forest industry is relatively new in parts of Labrador, and therefore it is another

sector that was not necessarily organized in such a fashion. They were able to do that.

In addition to their strategic plans they have been to coordinate and

network some of the interest groups. Now they are at a point where they have to move on.

The economic foundation of their communities is at risk in most cases and they have to

bring some employment there. They have to move on, develop the strategies they have

outlined, and in order to do that they need some tools. They need more human resources

within their organization, they need more people out there in the field working with the

stakeholder groups, organizing, implementing and so on, and they also need to have

financial capital. They need to have an investment of funds which they can put into the

infrastructure that is required so that businesses can build on it.

I am going to give you one example in particular in my district. You

look at the Historical Development Corporation. The Corporation was founded somewhere

probably in the early 1980s. What they have done over the period of time is they have been

able to develop in the infrastructure of the region. They have built up sites such as Red

Bay. They have put all the tourism infrastructure in place that was needed for the local

businesses to build on it. They made sure the

interpretation centres were there, the

visitor centres were there, the oral histories were done, the archaeology work was

documented, and then the business sector moved in and they developed, based on that.

What we have right now is several businesses operating in the tourism

sector. We have a number of people employed. We have an additional, probably, $2 million

in revenue coming into the area because of it. That is just one example of how the

infrastructure was laid and the business development built up on it. We have to do that in

other sectors. These boards have identified that in their plan.

I am just going to talk about the forestry sector as an example. You

look at areas like in Cartwright right now, where the development of the forest sector by

private business is imperative on certain angles with regard to the transportation of the

product. Until they can transport the product out of the community in a reasonable

cost-effective process it does not make the business as viable. Therefore, it is not as

attractive to the people that are investing. That is just one example. There are many

others that have been identified. Working capital, laying the infrastructure, is very

important in order for business to be able to build up on it.

Sometimes I find it very frustrating when I look around the district,

and also around Labrador, and I know the wealth of resource that we have, not only in the

forestry, but in the fishery, in the mining industry, in potential energy development and

so on. It is very unfortunate we have to go through periods in our history where we have

all of these resources but yet we are still strained economically, the viability of the

communities is still low, there are still high unemployment ratios and so on.

We have got to look at a way to bring both of these together. I think

the zonal board has developed the framework for doing it, and all of us have a

responsibility to support and implement wherever possible. When you talk about

implementing development like this, in some cases the private sector will do it, but not

all parts of this Province have the private sector base to be able to implement the kind

of progressive business development that is going to take place in some of these areas,

for a number of reasons. One such reason is that maybe the financial capital was not in

that particular region to do it and so on.

We have to look at more innovative ways of being able to develop and

implement the strategies that are outlined. What I would say to the boards in my area is:

Look at what you have done and see the successes that have already happened within this

district and within the zone, and start building on that. We have had successes.

I want to talk about the shrimp company for instance. The shrimp

company was started by fishermen along the Coast of Labrador who needed a place to be able

to sell their product and be able to develop within the industry. Today, we have a

multimillion corporation which employs 500 people to 600 people along the Coast of

Labrador, with five processing plants, and it is still owned and operated by people at the

grassroots level. When you get into rural areas of the Province you might want to look at

concepts like that. Concepts where you can buy into it and be able to invest in it so that

it is not just one person or one business that that responsibility is left to rebuild.

I say to the minister opposite, that the former member's quest can be

seen in the sea urchin surveys along the Coast of Labrador. It can be seen in the

productivity we have been able to produce in the plants this year, and not necessarily

within the crab fishery, the shrimp fishery, or any of their other fisheries that are

thriving, progressing and employing people along the Coast of Labrador.

I apologize for the diversion, Mr. Speaker, but some things are

noteworthy and should be noted. I am sure the Government House Leader knows that.

What we have to do in rural areas of the Province, and my district I

think is a living example, is that we have -

MR. TULK: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: On a point of order, the hon. the Government House

Leader.

MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, I wonder does the hon. member think that

that is where the former member should stay?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would reserve comment for a later date if I may, Mr. Speaker, and I

am sure I will have lots to say on the subject.

However, as I was saying, when you get into the rural areas of our

Province you have to look at more innovative ways in order to be able to develop, to

invest and so on. We have to look at examples that have been successful, things that have

been built on and what has worked. Because in more cases than not you don't have one

particular individual or business with the capital to be able to invest. What you do is

you pool resources. Everybody buys into the process of economic development. We have done

that in a number of ways. I outlined the shrimp company as being one. We have done it

through the credit union process.

Let's talk about literacy and information technology. What started out

as neighbour helping neighbour, teaching them to read and write, has developed into

full-fledged literacy centres and information technology centres across the district. It

employs a number of people in the field, but it does more than that. It helps, it assists,

it brings people in the community to a level where they are able to go out and make

themselves employable. It gives them the skills they need to look for jobs and so on, and

that is what this process is all about.

In order for a lot of these communities to be able to succeed, they

have to have proper basic mechanisms in place. What I mean by that is that we are not only

looking at an economic strategy for rebuilding the economy of our Province or building on

the economy of our Province, but we are also looking at a social strategy. I think that

when you look at situations and you see money being invested into the social network, into

housing programs, into transportation links, into education programs, it is all a very

integral part of building a very viable economic society. Because as you know, any money

that is invested in these particular aspects of social development is money that is going

to derive a return for the government, and it is also going to benefit the local area.

If you look at housing upgrading, or investing in facilities for senior

care, what you are doing is you are meeting the social needs of a particular community,

you are creating more employment in the long term, you are spending money in the interim

so you are getting a shot into the local economy and then you are getting businesses

participating in this who are generating revenue back into the government.

The social aspect is as important as the economic aspect. Obviously

they both go hand in hand because when people's social needs are met they are more

inclined, they are in a better frame of mind, to be able to make tough decisions regarding

the long-term economic stability of their communities.

I see a tremendous amount of potential around our Province and in the

rural areas of our Province, potential that I hope we will build on over the next two to

three years. I am hoping that we will take the strategies that have been put in place, the

economic plans, and we will all contribute to seeing that these things come to fruition,

that they are implemented, and that they bring positive and beneficial employment and

sustainable economic structure to a lot of these areas.

I look particularly in my own area. I look at the Trans-Labrador

Highway, an influx of some $150 million to $160 million into the economy of these small

communities to create a transportation network which is going to strengthen their economic

base overnight when it is completed. It is going to allow them to be more competitive, it

is going to allow them to bring in investment in, and it is going to allow them to attract

industry on a scale that they are unable to do right now.

I had this argument earlier today with someone else about whether the

highway will strengthen the economy or will it not. I gave them this example, and the

example I am going to give you now. Obviously, it is going to strengthen the economy. You

look at the forest sector in my district alone. Right now we have so many cubic metres of

wood, of squares, that are sitting in a community that have been cut, that we have a

market for, that we are able to sell. The problem is, we cannot get it to the market.

Therefore, we cannot claim the amount of money that we are owed. Therefore, the business

is in a position where it becomes vulnerable, where it may or may not be able to make up

for that net loss. This is one of the living examples that we are faced with today of the

impediments of transportation.

I know there are other members in the House who want to speak on this

important resolution. I know as well that the economic development boards and the work

that people around this Province are doing at the grassroots levels are important to them

and they have comments to make on it as well, but in closing I just want to say that it is

the people in the communities around this Province who will make the ultimate decision as

to whether their communities make it, as to whether their economic base maintains the

stability that it is at or increases to a more substantiated rate.

It is the hard work and the commitment that they are presently giving,

and I want them to be encouraged by the process that they are involved in. I think that we

have a responsibility to them to ensure that the plans they have laid out come to fruition

and we can do that by investing the money that they need, by following the direction that

they have laid out, and by listening when they come to us and explain the social and

economic needs that they have in their area right now, and address it with them one-on-one

in consultation with the other partners and those who will implement such developments.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Burgeo & LaPoile.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RAMSAY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker just to clue up, I appreciate the comments of members

opposite and also hon. members on this side. The one thing, though, that most of them did

not focus on was the social side. I just want to make a couple of little points on that.

Under the Strategic Social Plan there are some initiatives which should

be put on the record. The government has allocated $10 million in early intervention and

prevention programs for low income families and their children, some very significant

investment. Social assistance families retain the National Child Benefit to the tune of

$7.7 million of extra expenditure on the part of the government; $1 million to children's

food foundation, something not to be dismissed; over $7.5 million in employment programs

for youth; $3.3 million into additional teaching units to help children with special needs

and disabilities; $2 million to increase community based services targeted at addictions,

mental health, and home support services; and an additional $100,000 for seniors

initiatives.

Those are some of the social initiatives that are being funded under

the Strategic Social Plan. That, in concert with the overall Strategic Economic

Development Board's plan