Volume XL Monday PROPERTY OF NE\V~AND LEGISLATIVE LfBRAR'" PLEASE RETURN • ~ - Province of Newfoundland FORTIETH GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEWFOUNDLAND Third Session VERBATIM REPORT {Hansard) • Speaker: Honourable Patrick McNicholas Number 56 8 June 1987

The House met at 3:00 p.rn . IVJR. SPEAKER (McNicholas): Order, pleas1:!! Ml~. DAWE:. Mr' . SpeakE!r . MR . SPEAKER : The hon. thE! Minjster of rransportation. Ml~. DAWE : I arn surE•, Mr. SpE!aker', hon. IIIE!tnbers on bo l:h sides of l:hE• Leg:isJ.aturE! wjsh to join with rne to r~~qU1?.st that the House send l:he appropriate message For another gr1?.at · attainment :in l:he athletic prowesses of Newfoundlanders and send our congratulations to our provind .al dart tE!arn. I haVE! two significant not(~s. rhe teatn of ~)am Morgan from Rarnea, and Patricia Farrell From Codroy Va] J.ey haVE! won thE!

Canad"ian mtxrc.·d doubles. Pal:ricia W!c•nt on lat1:~r in the week, Min. SpE!aker, t.o win Lh1?. ladies singles national t:il:.le and, in so dcdng, knocked off the fif~th r-ank fr:~male dart player in thE! wcwJd. 1 think it is a significant contribution to athletjcs in the Province and certainly an event t.uor -th not.ing in that . thE!Y arE! thE! Fir st Newfoundlander s to win national champion s hip ~ . SOME HON. MEMBERS : He ar, h1:.>ar! MR. GILBER T: Mr . Speaker . (1.11~ . S P E A K F R : The hon. the metnbE !r For ' Bur'gE•o Bay -· D ' E s poi r . Ml~ . GII.BEIH : Mr .

SpE!akE !r, in vj E!W of Lhe Fact l.ha t th1?.r1?. i <' ·' a l: e am fi"OI Il the L2970 JUnE! 8, 1987 Vol XL dj_strict of BurgE!O - Bay d' E~;po:i .r· involved in this very historic event, I would like to take the opportunity fro1 r1 t·:.his s·.idE! of l:he House to of fer our congratulat"ions and to Sl?.Cond the motion l:o S!::!nd them a telegram congratulating l:h1?.1n for th1?.ir gr1?.at achi1?.Vement . !'hank you . SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hE!ar-!

Mf~. ~'IPEAKER : 01~der, pl~:.>asc~! 13 !?. r: o r P c a Ll i n g F o r S l: a l: !::! 111 e n I~ s b y M i n i s t e r s , I w o u J. d J. i k E! t o w c· l c o rn E! to l:he galleries (1.1r . Clyd (=• W1 0! 11. s, a formE!r rnernbE !r of thE· HoUS( '! Rncl the nev..J L1?.ader of l:he Lib er·al Party. SOME HON. MEMBERS : H1:!ar, hear! MR. SPEAKER: I IAJO U 1 d 1 i k E• t. 0 IAJE!l C OlriE! L 0 L h E• vis :i tor's gallery For ' ty -I wo (;r -a de VII students and their teach ers , Ray Mur-phy and Wit Kelly, r~r ·onl :'Jl: .. Anne's ~chool in Dunville. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hE!ar! Statements by Ministers MR .

POWER : Mr. Sp1:!aker. MR. SPEAKER : the hon. the Minister of Career Development and Advanced St udies. Mf~. POWER : Mr. :3p1:>.aker, today [ dill pleased l:o inform hon . rnetnber's Lha l. an additional one hundr· ,:.,J .1nd '' 'II 11r>W projects have received approval. No. :;6 [~2970

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. POWER: r.IJr. Speaker I tht:=!Se 110 nt:•U.i projects . involve a total provincial contribution of $765,112,000. ThE!Se projE!cts u.dll create 266 new jobs. MR. MORGAN: M1~. SpE!aker. On a point of order, Mr. Spt:=!aker. A cameraman is taking picturE!S l:hE!I~e and it is thE! HOUSE!. in t:hE! gaJ.lE!ry not per·1nitb?.d :in MR. SIMMONS: Mr ... : .... --sp 'eai·;~r, to t:he point of ordE!r. What is so alar·rning about showing the peoplE! of Nc•wfoundland what we are doing here for a changt:>.. Adrn:i t the cameras. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hea1", hear! Ml~.

SPEAKER: I wouJd J.ikE! to :inform thE! HousE· l:hal: I had a phone call from Marilyn Boone just bE!fore the proct?.ed:ings starl:t:•d and shc~ askc•d me if it wouJ.d be aJ.right For somebody t:o takE! pict.ures out.sidt:• the actual House itself. I said I did not see any objection. .§_Q.~1..J:! 0 ~-_:_,_~f.~.!~J- ~~-§ : Hear, hE•ar! Ml~. SPEAKE!~: 1:1u ":C'--:I:'"-'CE-'r'"t a i n 1 y d j d n 0 t g i v e a n y pennission on your behalf For pictures to be taken of the inside of the House or of the proceedings. · J'"he hon. the Minister· of CarE!I?.r [) e v e 1 o p 1r1 e n t a n d A d v a n c E! d S t u d :i E! s .

MR. POWEI~: Ml". SpeakE•r', just. leL we have app.roved 1.10 with a total 1.2')'11 .June 8, 198'7 rnr:• say that n I:' tAl p r' o j E! c l: s provi.nciaJ. Vol XI.. conl:ribul:ion of $765,112,000. ThesE! projE!Cts wi.JJ cr·eate 266 netAJ jobs, 51 of u.1hich tJJ:i .l1 bE! studenl: positions. Mr. SpeakE!r, I w~i] l bE! tabling a copy of l~he 110 proj ec l:s that are approved.

In keeping with Government's cormrril:rnenl:: to haue U1£:!SE! plnojc>cl:s approved as expedjtiously as possiblr~, l tAIOuld like l:o nob?. that 254 projects have been approued under l:his pr·oc;;r·a1n over the past Four weeks. lhese projects tA.ti.11 providP 1j29 new jobs, including 94 student placements. Of Lh1:• 'liS rwi11. i.on aJ.J.ocat:ed for l.he progl~arn, Mr··. Speaker, $1.5 rnil'li.on has alr·eady beE•n spent. Mr. SpE!aker, I IAJou1d li.kE! to say that these 529 new jobs in Lhe private sect:OI" ar·e i.n adci:Lti.on Lo the 1,095 jobs l:.hal: wer 'c' cr·~·at::·cl undE!r lhE!

Public SE!C:Lol~ E111p1oy111ent. program, for a tol:al of 1,624. jobs so far. Mr. Speak1~r, as a l"'?.suU: of l:h'is wage subsidy the provjncia] government: :is of "Ft:!ring through Lh1?. P r i v a t e S e c t o r· E 1TI p J o y lfl E! n L. p r· o g r~ a rn , many bus -i. n 1?. s s e s in l:. h 1?. P r u v inc 1?. w:i-JJ bE· abJe to E!Xpand. '"Jhjs k~ind of grOIAith potre'nt.ia1 has c:JE•I'1t:•r'a Lr ·d a n E• w o p t. i rn i s 1r1 u.L i. l h j n t. h e p r· j v a l. E! sect:or. I u.Jou1d aJso J:ike to nol .E•, Mr·. Sp1?.aker, {~hat: oFficials of 111y dE•pclr'Lrnen t. have bE·E·n con Lac ted by 111any peoplt?

Ln the busine·;~. c o rr11 n u n :i. l. y , i. n a 1 J s E· c L·. o r· s o f N~wfoundland, wishing l:.o express thE!ir appl"E!Ci .at.:ion l::o SJOVE'I"Illllenl.. for this type ol: co .. ·opr:·r·al·ivE! jub creation initiative. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Heal~, hE!ar! MR. SIMMON~) : No. 1)6 IU ')'7 1

_. Mr . SpE!akE!r' . MR . SPEAKER : ThE! hon. thE! l..E!adE!r of thE! Opposition . Ml~. SIMMONS: Min. Speaker, I thank the minis t.E!r for making a copy of the statement avaiJ.able to us. I arn not surE! what it is the government: thinks it: is achjE!Ving by this sE•ries of announct:!ments. MR . MORGAN: Crea l~i ng jobs , MR. SIMMS: Advising the House . MR. SIMMONS : Much ado about nothing! SOMF HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SIMMONS : Min. Speaker, fjrst of aJ.J., we are very much on the record as supporting the injtiat:ive whjch 1na r r i e s up p r :iva t:. e s t:l c l~ or dollars wj th pubJ.:i c dol Jars.

WE!, on th:i s side, support that· initiative whoJ.ehE!artE!dJ.y. Now, Mr. Speaker, ti'HH'e is vt:!ry J.itt]E! E!]SE! ~Ln this statE!fTient we can support. Wr:• art:! concer·ned, as we were earlier, about the tjOVto!rnrnent ovE•rheating tht~ t:~conomy tAI:ith so rnany of thoSE! job~; at onE· i:. i111e, ITIOrl:! o1 l~he tnec:Ja proj E:•c l~ approach, I supposE•. They should all get on planes up in Fort McMurray and r·ush hoiTIE! now to gE!t t:hOSI?. jobs. Mr. Spt::!aker ·, that minist.c:or, 1.11ho has youth on his side, can do bE!Lter Lhan t:h:is For t:he youth oF this Province, which are fac:ing - SOME HON.

MEMBERS: 1.29'72 Junt:! 8, 1')87 Vo1 XL Hear, hear·! MR. SIMMON~3 : a crisis of t:err:ib]e proportions. ·rhe best Lhis goVE!rnrnent can do ~Ls put up the Minist1:!r oF Youth -- he should be ca11E•d that-- clnd pander· on this point day in and day out. Where is thE• pr·ogralrtiTIC'! that tAdlJ adclrE!SS l~hose 1nany 'l~housands of youngsters' need out there for jobs? SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, ph~ase! MR. SIMMONS: Wht:'r':o is the progra1n1nE! get thE! tr1 IAIO r king? 1 t 100 or 150 or ;>OO Speaker. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER : Order, pl1:;!ase! L·ha l~ wou 1d :is not in jobs, Mr.

Would my hon. friend~. till tny lei-L p l e a s E! k E! E! p s :i 1 ('! n t: w h E! n t:IH! h o n . tnE!Irtbt:~r h1:!r·e is trying l~o respond l~o the Minisl~t'>.r'i.al :3l~aLetnE!nl~. MR. SIMMONS : Mr. SpE!aker, the rnjnisler talks aboui~ op·titn.istn. I say 1-:.o hoitn, thE!re :i.s very lit:t:le jn Lhi.s statem0nt For the youth oF thts ProvincE· t:o get: oplirn:i.slic abouL, vury lit:.Ue indeed. 11c:o tnust:. tw pr·epar'E!d to cotne in her·e t..J::i L.h cln :i n i t i a l~ i. v c:! l. h a t 1.11 i 11 <; u n d o u 1:. a signal to those people who are being devastated.

A whole generation is be:ing destroyed bE•cause oF thE· L:'J.ck oF acl:.ion on Uds ~)overntiiE!nt in t:hE• ar'E!a of job cr,:•ation, parU. cuL:u~ly for young people. Th:is wj]] not do jt. No. l)6 1~29'72

Thjs is njgh on an insult to these people, Mr . Speaker . MR. TOBIN : Two hundred students have jobs . MR. SPEAKER: Order, pleasE!! OrdE!r, p1E!aSE!! MR. SIMMONS: Still, he talks! Mr. SpeakE!r. thE! on] y notE! of optiiTiism the yout:h of Newfoundland rE!CE!ived in the past FE!W days is l:.he fact t:hat l:h"i.s party has a nt?W lE!ader. SOME HON. MEMBERS : liear. hear! AN l-ION. MEMBER: Oh, oh! MR. SIMMONS : They can heckle all they want, bE!Cause· pE!rhaps t-.hey do not: takE! Lhe prob1r,'m oF youth unt~mployment serjously. Is that Lhe problem, Mr. Speaker, l:hal: l:hey do nol: hav€~ the messagE• ove1n there?

ThE!Y haVE! a job and l:hat . is all that matt.er·s. We11, 1 haVE! :-JE'lAJs for l:hem, Mr. Spt:'!aker. · lrJE! have a programme for youth. We haVE! a progra1mne for youth t?.lnploymE>nt, and they can heck 1 E· a 11 they IAJa n l; t.1.J o lAJ i 1 1 i rn p l erne 11 t l h e pro g r a Jn rn e c~ s soon as thE• pE!OplE· of NE•wfoundJ and g i v e us L hE! o p p or· b.1 n "i t: y , and l: hat is going to be sooner than you lAJould like t.o t:hink, JnljCh soonE•I"! SOME HON. MFMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. LONG: Mr. Sp~aker . MR . SPEAKER : The hon . -U le rneJrlbE!r r·cw ~)t.

John Is F.: as l:. l 29.73 June 8, 1987 Vol XI. .. MR. LONG: Thank you, Mr. Spt:.>akr:>r. I want: to thank the minister for his statement, at least inasmuch as i.t prE! s E! nt s us wj th Lhe tablE· s so lAJE> can St?e whore jobs ar'e bcdng cr't"!ab?.d. But, I IAJOU1d say, as J haVE! Sed d bE!fore, coming :inl:o Lhl=! liouse eVE!ry weEd< or' Lwo to makE! a stateiTit:~nt adding up Lhest~ jobs ·is becoming a very tedious exercise that not only LhE! House of AssE•rnb1y, but t.hE! pE!Ople of Lhis Province are being subjected Lo.

ThE! pr'opaganda valUE!, l t..hjnk, :i.~; w h a l:. l: h E:~ rn i n .i s t e r h a s :i n 111i n d uJ h c:• n he cornE!S j_n tAJ:ith t:h:Ls stal.E!I'Tit,!nl, rather than a gt::~nu.ine al: .-l:t:!lllpl ·. l:.o put information in front of people. The minister has loJd us Loday l:here is $3.5 m:i llion r'E!Ina'ining in this private sector pr ·ogra1n1nE!. I l:oday call on l:he 1rrin .isL10·r 1-:o rnakc?. so Ill e of t. hE! s E! r e HI a j n j n g Fun cl ~'; t. hat. are waiting For applications a v a i J. a b 1 E• for pub 1 j, c ~.

E• c Lor· programmes, namely, l:.he probl<::!l\1 oF falfljly violence and Lhe Jack of moneys being put into trans~tlon SE!r'vjCE•s j_n l.his ProvjncE!. I ca]J on l:he 1n:in.is l:er· t:o make 111onuy avaiJ.ab]e cwd say, rinaJ]y, t.hat: IAJ h c:! n t: he 1 n i n i s l: e r s p e <·3. k s o f n t:•IAJ optimism in the pr:ivaLe secLor, wh,~l: tAJe see here i·; a conl:inuous atl.E>rnpt t.o pr'ivatjze t.he nol .jon or opt.iriltsrn in Lh·is Pr'ovincc?..

It . i.s about. t:j1ne, tAJhE!n we ar··e S(!E!:ing c (j t: backs i. n soc j a 1. s e r v i c c;• s , heaJ.th and educaUon, Lhat t.he 111in:isl:.er and UH?. <.JOVE•rnii~< Hl l: :;lop thjs dogmatjc obsE•ssion w:ilh lhe p r i. v a l e s e c t: o r . S l: a t' l: d e a l i. n g with human services jn lh:is Pro v .i. 11 c e d n d s l· .. dIn i: p u L l: i 1·1 g 1110 n e y into job crE!ation pi"ogralllli'IE '·S t.o take car'o of pE•oplE! tAJho dl"t:! huH.ing. Thank you, Mr . Speaker . No. 56 R:?')/3

MR. SPEAKER: Order, plt~ase! At this s tagt:> I t.uould uJelcorne to thE! ga11E!rtE!S Wornell, ,a former member LE!gtsJ.atur'E'. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. BARRETT : Mr . ~3peakt"!r . Ml~. SPEAKER : 1ike MJn • of to Ab(:1 I:_ he The hon. the Minis tE=!r of Development . MR. BAI~RETT : Mr. Speaker, in view of a May 24, 1987

article in The Sunday Express E!ntjtJ.ed, "Marystown Shipyard Teetering on l:he Edge of D·isastN'", I fE!E!J. it is necessary for rne to report to the Hot1~;e on thE! currE!nt_ situation at the s hipyar·d. The • ya1nd, con tr·ary l:o wha-t. The Sunday Express uJou1d have us beJ.ieve, is 1ooking. to a pertod of stability thal wtJ1 carry il: through Lhe nt:>xt sevE:•r'al years. ihe arttcle ts yet another example of irresponsible journaJ.ism which is detr··imE!ntaJ. to Lhe econouric t;.Jell --being of both Marystown Shipyard and the Provinct:!. SOME HON. MFMBERS: Hear, hE!ar! Ml~.

BARRETT : Ba~;ed on r-<'!CE!nt announcE•Jnents and the content-:. of Lhe article, Lhe h~adltne is totally inappropriate and il~ caus~::!S unnE!CesscH'Y concer·ns t.o the shipyar·d 1 s e1nployees, suppliers and customers.

The artjcJ.e emphasizes the negative aspects and convenit:>nl:.ly 1nakes JittJ.e or no reFerence to the roJe l~he shipya1nd plays i.n l~he t:>conorny oF the Burin Peninsula The l.297t~ June 8, 1987 Vo1 XL Government of Newfoundland and Labrc.'.dor and l-:he ernp1oye('!S or-:· l:ht:> shipyard arE! workin~1 LogE•t:her and urill continue to tAJOI"k l~ogel:her Lo E!nhanCE! the long- - tE•r'Jn potent::i .aJ of that shipyard. Mr.

SpE!akN', I t.uou1d ]_ i k E! to emphasize thai~ l:he present outlook for tlw shipyard is E!Xt.rE!rne1y positive and certainly noL teetering on Lhe edge of disaster. rt is currenLly constructing two mJddle distance tr-awlE·rs For Lht:~ DepaJ~I-:Jnonl: ol Fisheries. It: is :invo1ued i_n numerous rE•pair conl~racl~s. ll'lOsl-: notably the oi] tnig Bow Drill 3.

Contract nogotiations are ongoing w:i.t_h F:i.shet"Y Pr·ocluct.s for· the construction of seven t:raw1E·rs, a projE!Ct. whjch w·i]] pr'ovidt==! approx·imal:.t'!1y 1)1S per-son years OF" E!Hlp}oyment OVE'I'' thE! 1'1E!X-l, three years. rhis degree of s t. a b i 1 i t y :i. s r a r· e j n t h e C a n a ch a n shipbuilding indusl~ry at l:h.is ti11W. I rn i g h t ad d , M r . ~3 p e a k '"' r , t: h a l:. r had the pJeasure of addr·ess:ing L.I"IE' recent annual meeting of Lhe Canadian ShipbuiJders Associatjon hE!Jne :i.n St.

John 1 s Lhis pa~.l~ lAJE·ek, and to the per·<;on, t_hey cornp1ilnenl:_t:•d Lhe govel"nlnt::·nL dnd that shipyard on Lhe degree or f--. . I t . l I . d p r' o · J_ C'l e n c y L 'I a · 1 -:_ -, a s a l:. l~ a 1 11 r· . , and the or·cler book uJh.ich :i. s pr·est:•nl~ly has t.uh·ich 'L s co!npcu·able l:o any other faci1ity in all of Canada .. OnE! of l::he rnos L things which came ouL issuE· was lhe fact. uJish(:!d that Lh(!.ir jurisdiclJons ·Look compJ imen Lal~y of Lh"· tJJholt:• l:.het t. they pr·ov -L nc -.i.a l Lhe satnE· interest in the i r t: his go v e r· nr1te n t_ doE! s shipyards as in Marystown.

SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hPar! No. 1)6 R29'7fl--

MR. BARRETT: With respect l:o il:s long--ter·m potential, the shipyard has recently cornplr:d :ed a technology transfE!r' programmE! tAJ:i.th Moss Rose nbe r·g, Ve r F l:. oF Norway i:o enablE• j,t Lo acquire the knowhow and c;xperience tnequirHd to dE:'velop systems, pr·ocE!dures, per·sonnel and expertise to Lhe standard E:'Xpec Led by offshore developers. Through t.his agrec:lrnc•nt, l:hc:! shipyard IAii .ll atl:ain a position as a qualified fabricato1n and bidcJc;r for offshore and defence contracts.

In conjunction 1.1Ji th thE! technology transfer· programme, Moss RoSE!nber·g and the shipyard have formed a joint venture company called VinJand lndustr·iE!S to quaJ.ify for l:he award of con trac l:.s r·elating to lhe construction of Hibernia production facilities. Vinl.and recenl:ly pre --qual.iFted and submitted ~ bid to Chevron on a 111odu.le package~ for· an oFfshore product.jon pJatforrn to be locat:E!d in Angola. In t.his regard, it is notE!worthy that Mar·ystown ~>hipyard is t.he only fabrical'.or· "in Atlanl:ic Canada to have pre -qualified for module construction. SOME HON. MEMBERS : flear. hear! MR.

BARRErT : ThE! Canada-·- NetArfound1and Off .. shor'E! DE!Veloprra:.nt F1H1d Agreernen t has also recr:•nt.Jy bE!E!n USE!d to pr·ovjde a $20 million offshore fabricat ion E!nhancemE!nl progr·amme. A sum of '~2 rnilJ.: Lon is br:>.ing 111adc:! available imrnediat.eJy to assist thE· shipyard in upgrading it.s enginee~ing and managerial capabilities and to cornrnence c:?.nginE!c?.ri.ng stud:ies to i d e n U. f y s p e c i f j_ c a r· e a s w h ~'! r· e i L s physi .cal Fac.ili.l: .. ies nec=•d to bE! irnproVE!d i.n order· for it t.o qualify For Hibernia Fabrication L.2975 June 8, 1987 Vol XL work.

The remaining $18 mill ion For expansion and physi cal upgrading of Lhe shipyard's facilities has bee n approved in principlE•, pE!nding the re~.uJt:s of l:he engineer·ing studios and a d~:! c:i. S jon to proCeed !Ali l .. h of f S holnE! dE! vel o p men t ... The shipyard has also recently bE!E•n awar ·dc!d by pub] i c lE•nclc•r, a $1~. 6 million con tr·ac l: rr·om l:.he Canadian Coast Guard to conuerL Hull. 37 from an oFFshore supply vessel. ~o that of a search and r·escue vessr:!l.

In view of the for'egoi .ng, J a111 appalled that The Sunday Express would atte1npl": l":o c<:d:ch OI.H' att.enU .on by suggc•s l.j ng Lhat 'Marystown Shipyard is teeter ing on the edge of di saster.' Mr. Speaker, The Sunday Express, by l:his headline on MarystOIAirl S h i p y a r· d _., a n d t h E· r· e cH' (;! 111 a n y other examples which can be high J. i 9 h t E! d -- haS S h OlAJI1 :i. l: ~. (! J.f " t. 0 be far from a responsible newspapE!r. ThE!Y den1onstratr:• tAJ:i t h Lhe publication oF every issue t.hey arE! ' cornllli. l.Lc•cl t.o SE!nsat.ional .ism as a mcodt b oF attainj ng sa] es .

The pre c;s ha s a very graVE! responsi .bil:ity l:.o ensure that. Lhe public is fully and accurately inFor·med. The Sunday Express, under Lhe guise of bej_ng a }E!gi.t~irnal':E· IAJCCC!kly newspaper, deals in haJF - trul':hs, unsubstantjated conclusjons and u s e s s E! n s a l: i o n a 1 h C:! ad l i. n <:• s L o g d .L n al:.t."E!nti.on. It is an un~.eern1y ble1n-:ish on Lhe l-ace• uf lcoyil :i. llkcl .c:• journaljs _m. To conclude • M r· .

S p E! a k E' r· , 1 IAIO u J d li .kl:. to hi.gh1.ight: l:hr::!l : l·hc:• s j g n iF j_ can c E! of' l.I"LL ~; k :i r1 cl of 1neport:ing has not bec:!n lost on t:l1c• Town of Marystown. In a lel.l:er l":o l:hc• ed'i.l:oln dal:ed May 29, 198'7, l:.lw No . S6 R29'7S

Mayor of Marystot.un leavt?s no doubt about the town's "shock and major disappointment" ovc~r the art'icl1". rhe Mayor headl 'i nE· . lAJht:!n the goes on to say, "lhe is hardly appropriate k nOtAl that. people of t:.his Pr·ovtnce in lhe past fE!W months there were major announcements made as it relates to Marystown Sh:ipyat~d. The fel"!1:ing is that your l·wadlines are wr·itt.E!n to get attention· and to sell papers and have little regard For the well-being of tht? indus try, or t:hE:~ pE!Op1E! of thE! area." He went: on to say, "It is very disappointing and downrJ.ght discouragi .ng when yo'u pick up a newspaper i:l.nd rt.''!ad an

article that the press have quoted you in only to know that some of these quotes were not even part of the inl:erview". Mr. SpE:~akE!r, this kind of r e p o r t i n g 'i s n o l: i n l: h e E• c o n o rrd. c :i.nterest of our Pr·ov:i.nce. WE! shouJ.d aJ.J join wil:h the Mayor' of Marystown in an Ed=-fot"L to ~~nsur·,~ accountability on L:he part of Uw OIAJI1ic! r and tna nag ernE· n L of The Sunday Express. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, heat"! MR. SIMMONS : Mr. Speaker . MR. SPFAKER : I' i'l I;! hon. Lhe Leader of l:.hE• Opposi ·don . MR. SIMMONS : Mr.

Speaker, Lhe Maristown S hipyard is a major economic c ontributor to the Burin Peninsula. In addition to that, of course, it is making and it tAblJ. continuE· to make a bi~J contribution to acquiring and t:ransr ·errJ.ng tE!Chno1ogy whi.ch wi11 s 1:! r v ~;:· us well ·in l. hE! f u t: u r e . For L.2976 J'unEO· 8, 1987 1Jo1 XL thoSE! reasons and tnany oth,~rs, lAJE! on this side hope that the minister is right when he says the y a r d tALi. J l s u c c e e d . We h o p E! he '.:i. s right. We want to beli.eve Lhe mirdster w~ith eVE!r·yUd.ng thal: js 'in us b1?cause that yat-·d rnust SUCCE!E!d.

It is an integral part of an offshore development and as I have said, of courSE!, it cont".rj .bul·.E·s so much l~o the econotny, parl:i .culdr·1y of thE! Burin Peninsula. It he] p~; attract to the Province induslry from other parts of Canada and has l:hE! potenl: .. ial to atl:r·acl:. business. from outsidE! Canada bul. For · a rE!ason thal: I lAJill cotn1"! to. Mr.

Speaker, dS tAJi. l:h all Uw statements that ministers bring into this House, one has to scrutinize them wjL.h the provc>dJial grain of sall:. · ro ::;a_y i t d i r· f E! r e n t J y , t h e f a c L l.. h a t l:. 1-1 E:· rnini"~;l:er says som1:!t:hi .ng do'''S not make i.t Lhe tr~ut.h.

Take, for ·· example. his Udt"d paragraph tAJI'H:•r'''' he La1ks about t.raw}E!r's. tni ddJ e dis tan c ~'! l: r at~-.J 1 e r s and so on . 0 f course, if he were l:e]Jing L:he f u 11 L r· u l: h to L he House he tAJo u] d p o j, n l. o u t. t h a t t: h a t i s L. h E! r e s u 1 L of a fisheries restrucLuring agreement JiteraJ.Jy f'or·ced on L.h:ic. administration by a federal aclrnin·isLr·atjon t.hr·ec:• or· !'our· yE•etr·s ago, at a Li.1ne when !· he Pr·e11J.'iur was gcd.ng ar·ound sayit·l~:J U1dl: Li~:;h p 1 an l: s lAJO u 1 d h a v "' l: o c lu s "'' in l: h L s Province.

That 'is what he was l:elling l:h~C•In on nal:·ional teJevision at that particular time~. J'o1Jn . S p 1:~ a k e r , t: h e 1 n a n a g l:. 1 n e n l:. o f l:. h e yard is to be congraluJatecl f'or· the many init:iat:·iv1:•s i_l~ has l:.akc•n t.o get. t.hE' yatnd ready, gE'arN:I up, For l:hE! oFfshor!"• dt:•ve'loplnenl~. N OlAJ. l. hE! M t n j s t E! ln 0 r· F' ~i ll d n c E' ( [) r . CoJl ·ins) h11s bC>t::!n tnany l:.hings bul~ No. ~)6 ro9 '/6

thank God he has never been 1nanager of the Marystown Shipyard . AN HON. MEMBER : lie -.is a sharE!holder . MR. SIMMONS: Mr. SpeakE!r, the:~ managE:'HIE!nl has done its homework well and they haVE! seen to it ·. that a numbE!r of men have gone across thE! IAJat,?.r to Nor·way to acquirE! ski11s that wn .l serve them well when and if the offshore comes. Mr . SpeakE!r, 1E!t us hope t.h,?.y IAJ.i .11 g1?.t a chancE• l:o utilize those parUcular skiJ.J.s J.n the not to distant future. Mr. Speak,:•r, Lhe pr'I;!Sent Pr'illlE! Minis LE·r·, IAJhen hE!

IAJas ca1npaigning for office back in August, 1984, made a commJ.trnent, a commitment that if implemented would impact very possibly on the ability of l.h1?. MarystotAJn Shipyard to comp e te w'ith out-of ... country yards. Of course, you know I am talk ing about his undertaking to remove that exemption on fishing trawlers over 100 fE!E-t:. The implication of l:. h a 1: E! x E! m p t ton r i g h t n ot;.J .is thai: fish compan :ies, incJ.uding FPI ·and Na tional Sea, are going off to Korea and to other parts to gel UH :'ir . ships built because they cdn get them buiJ.t. much cheaper . MR.

TOBIN : Why d'id you not:. do :i.t whilE! you I;.Je 1~ e i"n 0 t t at~o.Ja? I'-1R .' SIMMONS : NouJ, Ml". SpeakE!r, today' s PrilriE ! M·inisLer made a COlllrn il:ment l:hat he wouJ.d change tha t. He · ha s been there two anrl a half years, of cour se, and WI?. ar E· s l:i l.l IAJai l:ing For thE! chc~nge. Mr. Speaker, two Final po int s.

ThE! cenl.·.er· of Page 2 conlai .n~; the k1:•y IAJorchng IAJh .i.ch w·i.U . ultirnal :E!ly decide the fui..ur·e of Ud.s yard and L2977 June 8, 1987 Vo1 XL dec:id1:! \~he~ future of IIIL'lny ol:.hur enterprises in thJ.s Province . lhe m'inister at the end of thai: second paragraph talks about a pending d e ci s i o n t o p r o c e e d IAI'i l: h o F F s h o r e development. That dE!Ci ~; :i.on :Ls a1ready l;.Je1l behind l:. i.me and \:.he PrE!TTliE!r and the Go~JE•rnrnent House L e ad e r , t h o M i n i s t ''! 1~ of E n e r· q y (Mr.

Ottenheimer) are noticeably silent, conspicuously s:i.len\: . on thal wholE· maltE!r about IAJhi ch they raved so much in passed times. Finally, Mr . 5peak,:>r, ther'l '! i. ~; anothE•r signal., a vE•ry :i.rrrpor·tanl s i g n a l r i g h t. a t l h e b '"' g i. n n i. n g '"-n d the end of lh:i.s press r·eJeciSE!. Jt is a stgnal that lAJoi ll nol:. bE! :lost on thE· pE!opJ.e of NeiJJfound]and and Labrador . List:,:•n to l".hLs sentE!nCE•, Mr ·.

SpE!aker, "Under ' L'h( ! guise oF betng a legitirnaLe we ekly n euJ spa per , i t dE· cl J s :i n h a] r -· t r· u L h s and unsubstant iah:•d conc1u si ons." Or ljsten to thi s one, "-Jhe pr ·e~ .s • has a very gr ·ave respons ·ibi.l 'i l:y, E•i..c., et.:c.," WhE•re did IAJE :• ]c:~~;l h1::-ar t.hal:, Mr. Speaker? 1.11i1?. hc•a.r· :Lt. every U .1ne you havE! a goveJ~nrnE!nl :. on l:.hE! l"un, .:i government that has run out of gas. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR.

SIMMON~) : r h E! 1 a s l t a c l: .. i c , f'-1 r . ~3 p H a k t! r· , i. s t o a t t a c k t. h e p r E· ~; s , t. o L E! ] ] l.: h e pres s h OIAJ i t s h o u 1 d be do 1 n g i. 1: s job, to censure the pr·e ss. I s u p p o s e L. hE! n I'! x t: t h i. n g 1 .. h e y IAJ i. l l be dotng --· MR . TUL.K : .Is it The Euening Telegram next? fhey have CBC. MR. ~)IMMONS : Well, Lhey have CBC d.nd th'''Y have The Sunday Express. suppose l:he nexl:. sl:ep is l:.o ou l: t.hEd . r oum pu bLL ca t:.i.o n. nnw J put: T he No. '~6 R ~ 9?7

next step is t:o w:i .thdralAJ advertising because the press is saying sornet.l'd.ng t.hE!Y do not agree l.i.li th. Mr '. Spt?.aker, l:.he Prov .ince would be much better ser'VE!d iF thesE• pE!Ople were less preoccupied with censuring the press and telling U11:'1n what to do and got: on with the job of governing which they were elected to do. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hec.~r, hear·! MR. LONG: Mr . Speakr:?.r. MR . SPEAKER: ThE! hon. the rnE·mber for St.. John's East. MR. LONG: ·Thank you, Mr. Speaker. rh .is s taternen l .. by th~o Minis t:er oF Development and Tourism (Mr. Barrett) is not: onE· IA.Je lAJould welcome.

We wou]d we]comE· any atl:E'I'Ilpt by t:he ministt:!r to solve IJJhat in his own rnind might be a serious problem relating to the flow of inFormation in this Province, but:. lAJe do not welcolfllc' a s t. a tern en L t:. hat. u s E! s UlE! k i n d o f' language that is in thLs minister's sLaternenL today. To ber·a LE! and ma] ign a commE•rd a1 nE!WSpapE!r in this Province, to Lry and bring to a debatE• on what is a very imporl:.ant and obviously a very complex issue, namely the future facing the Marysl:.own Shi.pyard. to br:ing to Lhat dE!ba l:.E! Lhe tone that lhe minister has t ntE! rv E!necJ IJJi .

L.h today. tAJI·d. c h is on t:?. that is normally found only inside this Chamber - as PJnbarrassing and as sharnefu1 as it sorrtE!t.i.mE!S rnight. be I would suggest:, as one rne1nbE•r of Uds L2978 Ju rw 8 • 1 9 8 '7 Vo] XL II 0 usE!, that t: hE! lTd rd s t E• r S h o U J. d not go ou Ls :i.de t:.his Chalflb(!f' and usE• thE! same ki.nd of ·language t.o beraU! and 1nalign 1.1.Jhal: 'Ls a commercial publtcation trying to do a job and having, no doubt:, gr'Pat diff'icu].ty in being able to have access to minist:ers and proper information that the gover·nrnPnt. l.i.JOu ld l:ikto' t:o have~ coml'llunicated.

There ar·e t:oo many exarnp]E!S :i.n r·ect:•nt wet?ks and rto•ct:•nt. 1nont.hs of ministers of Lhis goVE!rl'liii(Hll sirnp1y bei .ng unavai.1ablE! For· rned La or othE!r rnernbers of t:hE· pub] i c lo contact. Now, if t:.htc! 111inis l:t?r wants t.o come i.n and cha] J.enge information that: . is being put Forward, that is one thing. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh. oh! MR. ~)PEAKER : Order. p1ease! MR. LONG : I wo u] d say Fin a 11 y , M I'· . Speaker • From rny otAm posit.:ion d~; a 1nernbur representing a district. jn St. John's. I knot~J Lh,'.(t_ Lh'"! soir:.uat:ion facing the Newfound]an cJ Dockyard here :in St.

John's, 1.1.JiLh l.h:o• t.ransfE·r of OWrlE!I"sl·dp rr·orn CN L·o M a. r· i n e A l: 1 a n t :L c • h a s r a .i. ~; E· d 1 n r'l n y ser·:i.ous quesltons about l.hc· rul.urc of Lhe dockyard. rhis dockydrd happens to be jn cerlain circUinstanct:?S in co mpetit -ion IAI'il:h Mar··ystown. AN HON. MEMBER : You do not knotAJ IAJhat you dl"(! La] king abou l. MR. LONG: r h e y a r E· b o L h .i n c o 111 p cot:. U: . .i, o n IAI"i t: h too rnany shjps yar·ds E·xjsUng :i.n this counLI"Y· rhert:· is an incrE!diblE! COirlplE!X SE•l o( ' international For ces that wi ll No. S6 r\2978

d1:d:er·m.ine thE! futur1:! of any of these institutions in these communities. I tJJould pt:.>rsonally like to commend the eff'or.t of The Sunday Express in reporting, not only on the Newfoundland Dockyard slor·y, which l:hey did last t.ueek. but for l:.hE! previous week's

article on Marystown and their attetnpts to bring for'tAJard solfle dE!CE!nl, rneanoingfu1 informat . .ion l:.o h1:•lp people understand what is happening in a very complex set of circumstances. I would say that t:hE! rninislE!r should be ashamed of h~mself in coming in he-e today and try to gratuitously denounce the effo1nts of t-.heSE! har·d--tAJorking journalists in this Province. rhank you, Mr. Speaker. MR. BARRY : Mr. Speaker, on a matter of privilege before we get into Question Period, if I might? MR. SPEAKER : The hon. l:he 1nembPr for Mount Scio Be]l ls]and, on a point of privileg1?.. MR.

BARRY : I am ha1F afraid to raise it afl:.co!r the most r·ecent collliTIE!nts in thE• 11 o u s e . I wo u 1 d 1 i I< e for t hi s no t to bE! taken as CE!nsorship of thE· prr:>ss. I would like for it to be taken as an attempt to correct and t:o ask for a correct:.ion. wh:ich r think we are aJ1 entitJed to do in l:h"i.s House. On page . 3 of The Evening Telegram, 0nder the heading, " R e c E! p li. o n a IAJ h o ' s w h o of pr-ovincial Tory par·ty". thE•re is a q u o t e a t l. r' t b u t:. E! cl t·. o rn e . T h c::~ p a p e r' is right in recognizing that I a t. t E! n d E! d Ud . ~. f u n c U . o n .

T h e p a p e r is wr·ong, Mr. Speakt:!r, in l.2979 JunE:! 8, 198'7 VoJ XL al:tribut.ing the~ quol~c:! it did. I did not make the quote. I am report:1:!d to have sa:Ld, IAJ~wn askE!d why I was there, "BecauSE! this ts l:he on1y p1ace .in St. John's l:o b1:~ today." SOME HON. MEMBERS: Ji,:~aln, ~H:~ar! MR . BARRY : Mr. SpeakE!Y'. I haVE! to say I d:i d not 1nake tha l: remark. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. BARRY : So r-r y . So r r y . 1'-1 r· . :3 p e a b=! r . I d i d nol E!VE!n thj nk that remar·k. I WclS home all yesterday evening.

CF thE! wri t.er had wantE•d to cal J and check to SE!E! ·iF he had made Lhdl: rE!mar·k. thE!rE• was no 1. r·oubJ.E:! to find rne. As a rna U:1:!1~ of Fact.:. Mr. Speaker, as thE·y repor·L cor'l"ecLJy o n L h e s 1:! c o n cJ p a g E! • o r p a r l:. i a 1 l y corr·ect.J.y, they have me a'> be:ing in attendance on on t:! occas.-Lon, I was :i. n fact. in a t: t end art c e on a n u 1n be r of occasions • at l:. he Liberal Convention, for the ~ecord, Mr . Speaker. I can understand why the press 1rtight be conFused in 'icJ,,!nl:ifyi.ng :Lt. as a Tory funct]on, because. Mr .

Spt:>ak(:•r. patronagE! has been so 1Hwrc·d1y lashed out by lfiC'IIiber·~. 0 p p 0 S .i [: E:' 0 V C:• r l: he J. c'l S l: ~~· I'!I.IJ y U cH' S Lhat. th:Ls type or· <:JOVernmunL.a] function, I think. lhe general pub1ic tends to atl.empl lo ide n t. if y as a partisan I' u n c t i. on . MR. MORGAN : l s t h e r· e n o t a r o r y P r· i. 1 n E! M i n ·i s 1:. ''! r' in Canada? MR. BARRY : Was t.her'E! not- a l.iber·al Pr 'e lnoi.t:!r' oF Prince Edward Is1and in attendance? No. :>6 R29'/9

50ME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. BARRY: Exactly, E!XactJ.y. case, Mr .. Speaker. a Liberal Premier and participating. SOME liON. ME!'-1BERS : Oh, of1! MR. BARRY: QED, Y E! S, in I rest rny thc:>re was att.E•ndance Mr. Spc:>aker, :Lnterr·upLion, 1nab~ a brief so we can gE!t of Lhe House. :tf I could, lAii .thout I lAJO U 1 d j L1 s L: 1 ike t. o r·ernar'k and sit dotJJn on with the business Mr. Speaker, it is an insidious process that has bE!en The pr·ess, hotJJever, responsibiJ.:lty and they ongoing. have a shouJ.d know better.

They have a responsibility to distinquish between partisan political functions and matters of government, occasions of governmE!rlt and goVE!rnrnentaJ. Functions . All lnE!rnbers of Lhis House, on both sides oF L.his liouse?., and c:>ven our Socialist. rnernbE!r down in l.hE! cornE!r, I arn sure, I~E:'ceiv,:-d an invi .tat..ion to be in attendance because that was not a Tory Par l: y Fun c t. ion , i. t lAJa s a governmental Function, Mr. Speaker. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR.

BAI~RY: I am entitled to be there and nobody is E!nl::it.l,:!d to r'l:'ad anyth:ing into t.hat, Mr. ~)pE!akE!r', hotJJever m~i.schievious Lhey tAJanl: l:o be. We have had orw paper roundJ.y conde1nned and chas t. i.Zt:!d l:oday. I lAJj .J.] say The Evening Telegram occasion<:d ly lllakes rnis l:.akes. It has made a rnistake in L:his case and I tAJould likE! t.o see it COrTE!CtE!d . 1_2980 June 8, 1987 Vol XL SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hE!ar! MR. OTTENHEIMER: Mr. Speaker . MR . SPEAKER: fhe hon. the GovPrrnnenl: House Leader. MR. OTTENHEIMER : On l:hat point of pr:iv:ilc,!gE!, Mr. SpE!aker, WE! CE!rtajnly concur·.

The hon. gentl(!lllan says he 1 . .uas quot :.ed as saying, 'BE!in~~ at lhe Pr'":ilfiE! Minister's ConfeJ~ence t~o.Jas l..hrc~ only pJ.ace LobE!.' He did not. say it. was the only place to be and therefore that should be correctE!d . Perhaps l:he r·c•porl:er ·t,Jas ruadinq his mjnd, but obviously l.he reporLE!r can only rc,!port: tAJhat is sa~i cl, and we cer ·tainJ y agi"E!E!. ThE! hon. rne1nber For Mount ~3c i.o -- 13r::!.l.l IsJ.and says he d'id noL say ~it: lAJa s l:he only plt'l.Cio! l:o be, l:ht:!n .il: . l;.J as not t.he only p] ace t:o be. He rnay have thought . it .

Obviously, none of us can know what Lhe hon . g C'! n t l E!lna n is t: h :i 11 k i 11 g , For l: una l:.l=! l y For· somE·. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. ~)PEAKER : Or·cJer·, plE•ase! Ther·e is no prjma fa cje ca ~.e or breach of privilegC'!. rhe hol1 . member took l.he opporlun":il.y o f correcting what was quoted. Oral Questions MR. FLIGHT : Mr . SpeakE!r . MR . SPEAKER : No. 1)6 1~2980

ThE! hon . thE! mmnber for Windsor ­ Buchans. MR. FLIGiiT : Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Career Development and AdvancPd StudiE!S (Mr. Power), Lhe Minister also, of course, Responsi.blE! for thE! Status of Women. NotJJ, tho mi-nister tAd.l.l be atJJare of the statements made by the Minister of Social Services (Mr. BrE!tt) w:i .th rPgards to tJJorking rnot-:hers :in this Province, so I do not. need to repE!at thE! statements made. We atne not talk:ing about a linE! that rnay have bE!E!n takE!n ou L of context.

The statt:'rnNlt was a litany oF insults to and aspersions on L he tAIO r k L n 9 rno the r s of this Province. The minister pr·obably sc:•nt the uJorktng rnothr~r·s of this Province to· work this morning lAJit.h a guil.ty conscience that somehow or· othE!r by going to uJotnk they 1nay be cont-:r·'i.but.-Lng to thE! possjbiJity of l:heir ddldren becoming delinquent. Does t:he Minis l:.E!r' f~espons·ible for the Status of Women agree with and support the vi~ '?WS exprc?.ssed by thE ! Minister oF Socia] Services? MR. SPEAKER : The hon. t.he M'irdster of Car'E!E!r' Development and Advanced Studies. Ml~. POWER: Mr.

SpE·akE!r, if SOlliE! rnE•mbE•rs wer '('! not:. so preoccupied ouer Lhe tJJeekE'nd tJ,.Jith trivial matters, they IAJould have rea'l:izc:•d thai:. on this irnporl:ant -i.s~:UE! of statE· t.hE! government's position is quite clPar lAJhE~n il~ comes Lo suppor·t of women's issue s in this Province. We t:akE' a back seat: t.o no one, :i.n particular the Liberal Party of NewfounclJ.ancl IAihE!n t t. comes t.o !J.JOinE!n Is issur:?.s, t.uho a 1~r:! as L2981 JunE' 8, 1987 Vol XL dinasauric as any oth<:~r po]:i .bca] party could possibly be when it COITIE!S to women's i.SSUE!S. WE!, i.n l:his parl:y, are VE•ry ada1nant.

We?. have a recor·d which subst.ant:Lat:E•s what. we have done 1'-orn lAJOIIH:!n :i.n this Province, whether it comes From the matrimonial property latAJs, our support: Few day carE•, our support For l:ransit:ion houses, and our support of their membership on govern1nc=!nl:. boar··ds w hE! r E! we h a v e d i s c r E' t i o nary p o !JJ e r· s s o to d o . I n a tAl h o 1 e r· an q e of areas. Mr. SpE!aker, our governiTient philosophy, our gov(:!lnnrrwn"l: pol --icy as it relates to women's issues is very clear and is very progressive.

This governrnc?.nt does nol:. suppor·L the concept or beJ.ief in l..he idea l:hat l:hc?.r'e 'is so1ilehow or oL.hc:;!r' a connection between the amount or t i rn e t h a t uJ o Ill E· n s p e n d o u I. s i d E! L he hornE! working for· pay, a~ ; jt- n~ l a t C:! s t. o IAJ o r k -.L n g a 1: h o rn c:• somE!tiiTIE'S u.r.i Uwut pay. lAJE' can f:i.nd no cor-relat.:i .on tJJhi .ch solnEdiOtJ,.J or o Lher subs t.ant::i ates ·the idE! a t.hd l .. IAJork:i.ng rnothE!rS conL.rjbut -.E! to j uveni] E• dE!] inqUE!rlCY. That: :.i.s OlJI" offic:ia1 govE!rn1rwnt posit ion <::tnd it:·has ned. changE~d .

Our· r'E•c :ol~d on wornen' s issUE!S, as I say, Mr. Speaker, is very progress ive and is somc':!thing !':hal:. tJ,.Je on t··.hi.s si.dc:· are very proud of. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. FLIGHT: Mr . Speakl=:•r. _MI~ . SPEAKER : ThE· hon. t.hE! me111ber for" Windsor· Buchans. MR. Mr. L.he with will FLIGHT : ~ipE~akE!r', 1 am nol. 1n:Lnist-.e1" agr'C:!c=?s sui"E! whei. he1" or· d L;agn:!es sl.a t.E'ITI(!ni:. sol t. h E• ITI i. n i s L e I" ' s l.r·y ag,~"i.n IAJ:i . L h l: his No. S6 R/.981

.. question: Is the minister prepared to continue to serve in a Cabinet with the Minister of Social Serv~i.CE!S, th~' rnin:i.ster· who is responsible for providing ad E! quat E! ,day carE! s e r v i c E! s i n Ud s Province, after l.:hat rninisl~10!r has expresSE!d his v:LE'•ws t.<.Jith regard to LI.Jorking motht'rs, i:~nd, indr:.>ed, all women in this Province, and the children of LI.Jorklng mot.hE!rS in this Pr·ovincE•? Wi1l he sUJJ . c o n t -i n u H to s e r· v E' .L n Cab i n e t lAd. t: h a rrd.nister· LI.Jho si:ands by and expresses those views? MR. POWER : Mr . Speaker . MR .

SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Career Development and Advanced Studies. MR. POWEI~ : Mr. SpeakE•r, I just want t.o make absout.e1y clear govet~nment' s position, which I just stated. Our govE.~t~nmen l~' s role when i l":. c o rn e s t o d ·a y c a ,~ E! i s a J. s o extremely progressive, For examplE•, thE:~ nE!lAJ centrE•, on which 1.1..1e spent close to $700,000 to haVE!, a· goVE!r'tWIE!n l:. day care cen t.re in l:hE! new ConFedE·ration Building Complex for government employees. Thal·: govE•nrtnent day care co?.ntrl':! is suppot~'LE!d VE·ry E!nt.hus:iasticalJ.y by the Minister of Social Services, Mr·.

SpE!aker, a man 1.1..1ho s:i.t.s in Cab:in€•t, lAJho very oft.en, in many, many ways and very strongly supports day care and improved day care services in this Province. 0 n e c o 111111 e n t. l": h a t 1:. h a l·: 111 i n i s b:· r makes, notwil":hstanding, does not l·:.ake aL1.1ay Lhe r·,:=!cord l~hal·: l:his government has as iL relates to day care in .this Province, Mr. SpE•aker. We are gcd.ng to conti.nUE! t.o have it, as H: re1al:I:!S t:o l.he E!ducati.on of day cat"E! LI.Jor·kero;, such as Lhe $.5 million dollars that. 1.1..1as found for· thE! Cabot L2')82 June 8, 19B7 Vol XI.

Institute La do a day care tlAJO-.. ·year prograiTIITIE! t.o l:E!clch thE'' workers who will enl":.er the day care system as instructors and support staFF to be as educated as thE!Y ar'E! anywhere E!1SE! in Canada or· :in Nor·th America, tAri.th l:.h1:• suppor't. of the Mi n:is tE!r of Sod aJ. S1:•rv:ices along t.l..l".iLh l.he l~ol:.al support of t.he ministry. Gover'rHnl:!nt iLs,:df w:Lll continue to d o p r o g r e s s :i. v e t.l-d. n g s i n L h e f i Ed d of day cat~c~. MR. FLIGHT : A final supplementary, Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the hon . the member for Windsor - Buchans. MR.

FLIGHT: Would thE! rrd nis l:.E!r indicate to LhE! House whl=!thE!r or not. he has i n s i s t: E' d L h a L t h E! M i n i s L E! r· o r Social Services apologize to Lhe wornE!n, and t.hE· childrE!n of wor·kj ng women in this· Province? ~'3ince he represen t.s wofiiE!n in his r·o] e as M:inister Repons ·ible For l:hE! Sl~aLus oF WorrH~n. has hE! insistE•d t.l'ldl:: t.hc· rninisl:.er· issue an apology to Lh1:! women of this Province? MR. POWER: Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER : The hon. the Minisler oF' Career D e v '"' 1 o p 1n e n t a n cl A cl v d n c "' cl ~1 l: u d i (;• s . Mf~.

POWEI~ : Mr. ~1peaker·, anybody lAJho lAJ<'l~. :.i.n t:he l.egis.latur·t~ L'l.st: WE•dnesda.y k no 1.1..1 s l: h a L t he M :1 n i. s L E· r· of ~; o c i. a] Services was speaking on the privale TTlE!Illber·'s r·eso]ul'.ion ol' l:hE• Jne1nber fo1~ Sl~ .. John's [dst: ExLer'n (Ml". Parsons). HE! LI.Jas not speaking d"irE!Cl~ly i'l.S a govc!rniiJE·nl~ m j n i. s t E• r or· on h :.L s go v e r'l'liTI en t r E! s p o n s i. b i 1 i. l~ y . A s i. t c o n 1 e s l:. o day care in Lhis Province, Mr. No. 1)6 1~2982

Speaker, I can onJy say that this gouernment's record is excellent. as it relates to any other gouernment in Canada for the prouision of thoSE! seruices to thE! LAJOtnen (Oi,nd children of th:is Pr·ouinCE!. That not:t ... dthstanding, Mr. Speaker, it is unfor·tunate the comment lAJas madE!, that somehow or other some persons opposite, for their own narrow, poljtical mol: i u e s wi 11 t·: r y to rna k e it somehow or other perceiued that this gouernment on t.his side, which runs day care in t.his Prouince, is somehow or other not supporbue of day care. That :i.s totally inaccurate, Mr. Speaker. MR. FUREY: Mr.

Speak E!l~. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for St. Barbe . MR. FUREY : Mr. SpeakE!r, good enough. going to wash. that answer is That is just not no L M r . S p E! a k e 1~ , I IJJO u 1 d 1 ike to a~~ k the Minister of Justice (Ms VE!rge): In hE!I~ capacity as Al:tor·ney ·-Gener·al, she i.s painFully aware of a specific comment al:tribub".d l:o !':he minisU•r, and .it is this, 'I wish mothers would stay home and look after their children. If thE!Y did, we LAJould haue Fewer juueniles in co r-r E• c tiona] ins tit u t. ions . ' Now. Mr. SpE•aket~. that· .is l.:h1:!

Minisb:'r of Socj al SE!ruj ces' cotnrnen L, not. any bod y e l s e • l: h ~~ 11ri n i s t e r • i n h .i s r·ight as m.inister, to stand herE! and make those cornrnents. I ask the Min:istPr of JusU.ce does shE! agree tJJil~·h HtOSI:! stal:elllents tnade by hN' coLleagUE! and has shE! demanded cop'iE!S of thE· studies LAJh:i.ch LL.J:i_l_l uer·ify and ral:i.onaJ.:i.ZE! Lhose statements that_ he made? 1_2983 June 8, l'J87 Vol XL MR. SPEAKER: The hon. th-e Minister oF' Just.iu~ . MS VERGE: M r . S p e a k E! r • 1 h a u E! m a d (=! rn y t.d e Lu s on this subject known publicly ouer the last four or fiue days.

There is absolutely no research anywhE:~re, thEH'E• arE! no s t.udi .E!S to show any connection between mothers working and the criminal behauiour of their children. There are studies and ·there is uery good research showing that quality day care given by care giuE•rs o l:h,?.r !:han paren t:.s. in H11:! hornE!, outsidE! thE! hornE!, thr·ough a uar:iE!ty of tnodtds, .is UIC!r'y beneficial for children.

The dE!fin:i t.i.ue s l:udy tAJas done over' a pE!r'iod of ttAJenty--odd years in Michigan with a controlled group and anothE!r gr'OUp o(' chi .JdrE:!rl IAJhO had the benl':!ht. oF high qua]i.ty, preschooJ. programming.

ThE! second group, LAJh.ich had quality day cat"1=•, fared lTIUCh bE•ttE!r' by c'J. nulllbE!r or· rneasur'E•s ·- happiness. success .in school • and s u c c E' s s :i. n t h P wo I" k p l a c 1':! 1 a t e r· :i. n 1 i F r='! . 3 o l: i·H:! r ''! i. s absolutely no E!UtdencE' Lo shoLAJ any connect: ·ion bE!!:t~<Jel;~n rnol·_hE•t"s tAJOJ"kinq or· rather s LAJo r· king an cl L hE' criminal b1?.hautour of Lhl-'! ir· chj]drE•n. -!here is uer·y defin:LLE· resE!arch l:o shotJJ that ch.i1d Cdi"IC! provided by other than p~renls. supplementing parents' care, mother's care and father's carE', is uery beneficial to l.:hP:ir chi]dr·en.

MR. FUREY: Mr. SpE•akE!r. a suppletnent.ar·y . MR. SPEAKER : A supplmnE'nlar·y, the hon. the member for . St. Barbe. MR. FUREY : Mr·. ;')pE!akE!r', IAJOU1d the Mjnj~~L.er· or Justice undertake to prouide her colleagUE!, UtE! M:inister· or ~)ocja] No. 1J6 R2983

Services with all available studies showing his words - not thE! wor·ds of anybody E•J.so :i.n this Chamber, but his words as Minis l.:er of Social Services - to be absolutel,y FaJ.se? Will shE! do that? Has she dE!manded a pub1ic apology· fl"orn Lhi.s rninist:el" For the slur he sent clcross this Province i'l.nd cast upon all 1nothers uJho go out to work every single day? MR. SPEAKER : The hon. the Minister of Justjce . MS VERGE: Mr·. SpeakE·r·, I have madE! my uieiAJS knoum fully :i.nsicle Cabinet and l~o thE! genE•i"a1 public, and I IAJE•J.come l:his opportunity l:o state t:hern in this HouSE! of AsSE!rnbly.

TherE! is plenty oF evidence, as · I say, to support t.hE• vaJ.uE• of pubJ:i . cly funded child care, provided by care givers othE!r than parE!nts, to supplement the cart:' of fathers and mothers. MR. FUREY : A final supplementary, Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKFR: A final ~upplementary . MR. FUf~EY: Mr. SpE!ai<E!r, if the minister who stated l:hose IAJor·ds linkj ng working rno the r s l:. o l: heir c lri. J. d r E• n g E!l:. t:i. n g on a dir·c,ct paLh to prison t~dl.l not publicJ.y apolog:i .ZE! or I"E•sign, IAJi.n Ul"is rninisb:•r, uJho is a good and honourabJe champion of women's r ·ights, leave l:hP Cabinr:d:.?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! Mf~. SPEAKER : The hon. the Minister of Justice . MS VF l~GE: Mr. Speaker, I am gov,~rnrrli''!nt which has L 2984 June 8, 1987 par·L·. of a an excell1:!nt Uo] Xl. rE!cor·d IAJhen it: COITIE!S to pr·ovicl:i.n~J servicE!S I~ or children and IAJonwn. Our record of accornpl:ishmE'!Ill.s speaks for itself and our goals for the nE•xt few year·s speak FoJ" themselves. I will. continue to be pcn·t oF a PE!Ckford aclrninJstr·ation uJhich has as a cent.J"al. plank in its pJ.atforrn advancjng the interE!S l:s oF IAJOini~n ·- SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear!

MS VERGE: suppor·t.ing the L\JOJI"Ien of l:h.i.s Province in making choices that aJ"e b('S t For t:ht'lnselves as individuaJ.s who have needs For self development, tAJho havE· ab:i .J.it.ies, talE!nts and s k:i.l] s to contributE! l:o the pai.d 1abour force of our Province, to the l?.cono1n.i.c and soc i.al building of the Province, choices which are in Lhe best inl:eresl: oF l:heir chiJ.dren and tl·w:Lr faJniJ.:iE:·s and, IAJhen wo111en chose for thE!InSe1ves l:.o ent.r,!r the paj d ] abou r· r or· c e' t 0 support: IAJcHnen by pJ"oviding opportunities for meaningful J.abour force participat i on, opportunities equa1 with Lhose prov"idE•d l:o J'JlE!n.

MR. TULK : Mr. Speaker . Ml~. SPEAKE!~ : -.:j-hE· hon. t hE! mernbei" r·or· F 0~10 . MR. TULK: My quest i on is to Lh(:! Mi.ni.si:.UJ" oF Justice. While I obvious]y res p 1::. c t. d n d a clJJri r E! h ''! r ,- u r· her stand on l..<.JOITIE•n's iSSIH'•S :i. n this PJ"ovinc,:!, I say l:o her· l: h at. ~. h e cannot have i t both ways. She cannot continue lo serve in a governlflE!nt j n which serves that rn:inisl~er tAJho says Lhe work i ng mothers of this Province are conl:ribul:ing to juveni l e No. ~i6 R/9811

delinquency. So I ask her, in defE!nCE! of t.hE· women of lh:is P r· o vi n c e • lAJO u 1 d s h 1:?. do 1:.> i l·: her· onE! of tlAJO things: Et thE!Y' say to l~.hE! Prerni1:!r' of this Province that the Minister ,of Social Services, who spoke as the Minister of Social Services when he spoke in this House last Wednesday, has to resign or othE•rwi se I, the Min:isb:>r oF Justice, tAli.ll J"esign? Which one is to go? SOME HON. MFMBERS: HE!ar. hE!ar! MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice. MS UERGF: Mr. Speaker, I fiE!1d thE• questions referJ"ed to me that relate to the criminal justice system - MR.

TULK: It relates to you. MS VERGE: and I have responsibility, as Minister of Justice, For adult correction. I suggest that that question be reFerred to the Premier who can speak on behaif of the government as a whole. Ml~. EFFOIW: Mr. SpeakE!r·. MR. SPEAKER: ThE! hon. the ITlE!mbE!r' for Port de Gr·ave. MR. FFFOIW: My qUE!sti.on is t.o thE• Mirdster of Career Development and Advanced .studiE!S, and it. is in connE·ctjon uri.l':h an anstAJr.::·r· he gave lo 1ny colJec:~gue, thE! rnr.::·rnber· for Windsor Buchans (Mr.

Flight), lAJhPn hE! said that the M:in:istE!r of Social Serviccc!S. 1 as 1: Wednesday lAJhen l'liC! made l:hE!SE! SE'l"ious stat:E!mE•nts that. a f F ,,. c I···''' d a 11 p a I" E! n t s • t.1.Ja s talk :in g L298S Jum• 8, 19B7 Vo] XL us a private member and not: as Minist.er· of Socia] ~3ervj.ces. -rhe question I want to ask Lhe M:i.n:Ls lE•r of CareE!r DevoJ.oprnent and Advanced St.ud:'Les, -Ls: Do1:~s "'''' believe that the Minister of Social Services can do a Jeykll and Hyde performance and be one tiring outs·idE! of t.:he House and a totally different. character in gOVE!rl1l'nE!nt? MR. POWER: Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Career Development and Advanced Studies. MR. POWER: Mr. SpE•akE!r, I just do nol. knotJ.J how you can anstAJer silly fl"ivo.1ous questions J.jkE! that.. -·-t.hey iH'E' simply not serious qUE!Si:.:ions .• :ts I outJ.ined in the answer t.o the earlier questions, Our goVE!rnmen t.' s r·o1e and out" government's policy, our government's position and our goVE!rnrnE!nL's pr:.•r·For·rnancc, on dL'l.Y care and child carE! and lAJOlllHn's iss~es is quite open to Lhe public. It :i.s sontE!t:h:ing Lhal. t;..JI'' iH'E.> quil.:E· pr·oud of·.

Wf:• ar1:o going to continuE! to do rnoi"E•, tJ.r:i l. h thr· support·: of thE'! M:intstc:•r of :.-Jocial ServicE's as well. Mr. Speaker. MR. EFFOIW: Mr·. SpE!akE·r. Mf~. SPEAKER: A sup p 1 E! menta r y , L he h on . l:. hE' lTIE:'inbE!r of Port dE! Gr·avE!. Mf~. EFFORD: Well, I tAli. 11 ask l. h ''! Mini. s 1··.,. r· of CarPer DevelopmenL one very quick, clear question. Does he agree with thE' staternenls made by l.he Minis Ler· of Social ~3ervicu~; in Lhe HOUSE! or A~;sE•mbl.y J.ast Weclne~.clay aftE!rnoon? No. ~iG R29B1)

MR. POWER : Mr . Speaker. MR . SPEAKER: The hon. [·:he Minis l:.er of Cat~ec:H' DeVE!loptW:'f1L. IIIJR. POWER: ------- Mr. Speaker, the nwmbc::>r ITIUS l·: neE!d a hearing aid. I have said at lt-:.as l: on half a dozen diffet"E'!nt occasions that I do not agree with l:hc" sl:.al:ernent !:hat thE!rc::> is so111e rE!] ationshi.p bEd:.I.UE!en thE! amount of Ll.Jork t.hat lAJOITic:.~n clo out:side of !:.hE! horne for pay and juvenile del:inqtH:~ncy. I do not belir:•ve ·in that s ta t.E!HIE' n t, no. MR. SIMMONS : Mr. SpE~aker· . Ml~. SPEAKER: The hon. the L.eadE!r' of Lhe Opposition. MR. SIMMONS : Mr·.

SpeakE!r, · thE! Minis LE!r' of Career DeveloprnE·nt says l:.hat: they wiJ.l takE! a back seat t.o no onE•. That:. is l:hE! probJ.<'!rn: Charlie .is in the driver's seat on this one, l:ha.l:. is t.he whole probletn righl: her'E!, and we have to gE!t hirn out. oF that particular seat, Mr. Speaker, bE!for'E! he does any more darnage. Mr. Speaker, l t.ua n l: l:o put. a question - Mf~. PATTERSON : You are Frightening Lhe baby in the gallery. Sit down. MR. SIMMONS : l h a 1: i. s because lAH.~ n e c:! d rno r· e day c a r·E·. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hE•ar! Mf~.

SIMMONS : L2~)86 June 8, 1.987 Vol XL I want to put·: a ques I· i.on t·.o !:he P r E! 1-rti. -E! r o n t. h i s v e r· y i m p o r t. a n t issue. WE! hear the MinisL.et" o·F Career Development and the Justice Minister say that:. there is no correlation between working rnothE!I~s and the incidE!nce oF young offenders. We hear t.he Minister oF Social :~etnvicc?.s sa.y Ll'lc:!rE• is. Today, and addit-iona11y ou-ts:ide of Uds House, Mr. Spc::>al<c:!ln, U..JE! have hear·d a11 k-inds of statements fr·om those three ministers which tell U S t h E! y a r· E! 0 n a V e r· y d j_ f r· (;! I" E• n t· t.r·ack.

Now i.t is obvious to l:.hc:> pubJ.ic I say to the PrE!TU:i(;!r·, that h€· has- on h·is hands a Ul'•r·y ser·oLous split on a very fundamental issue. WouJ.d hE~ ·indicatE• to Lhc:• House and to the public how he ·int:Pnds t·.o r·esolvP !:hat pa.r·ticu'lar split? PREMIER PECKFORD : Mr. Spr:~akc?.r, t:hat_ ·is SOIIlc:!thing Foln rne to decide upon in rny own t..-ime, and I do not :intc"ncl to debal:e l:hal: wjth the Leader of t.he Oppos.i.L i. on today.

I wan!: to reinForce, though, someUd.ng t:hat both LhE· MjnjstE·r· oF Justice and the Minister oF CarE!E;r DE!Ve1oprnent haVE! said, t.ha-t. obviously Lhe Opposition are no!: looking at t.hE· facts oF the situation as I see !:hem. The budget: of Uw Depcu·t.rnent- or· ~3oc:ia1 SN·viC0'S in 1979, t.uhen t.his adtrdntstratj on took power, tAla~; $4 ~) 111illion. Today :it :Ls ~t 11 1 million. Mf~. SIMMONS : T'hat is not t:he qliE!Si:. "Lon hE-re:'! . PREMIER PECKFORD: Hold on! l.l':! t lfiE! anst.uer.

Day care and hornernaker services lAJE!I"E! $350,000 and Lhey a1nl?. $6~)0,000 today. ~)uppor·t. l'or' farniJ.y sPrvices was $31,000 and it is noLAJ $482,000. 'Tr'iHlsil:.:iun No. 56 R2')86

houSE!S, zero in 1979, $381,000 l:.oday. fhat is our policy, Min. Speaker, and it is Lo do rno1ne. WE! are nol: doing E!nough, even though we have gone from zero to where we have gonE1. Tht?.re is no conn~;.~ct.i.on E•rnpiricaJ.J.y ab]E! to bE• asCE!IntainE!d between working mothers and the rate of juveniJ.e deJinquency. rhere is no connection. Our progr·amrne, our policy, is absoJ.utE!J.y c1E!aln. WE! tJJE•l"E• l:.he administration and t:h1?. party that. brought in the Status of Women Counci.l. We are the party and the government that brought in ma trirnon.i.al propE!rty reForm.

We are the par·t-.y and the goVE!r·nrnent that brought in affirmative action for women. We are going to cont . .inwO! on that course more and more in the future than we have in l:he past. SOME HON. MEMBERS: HE!ar, hear! MR. SIMMONS: Mr. Speak,?r. rt·le hon. the LeadE•r of t.h(! Opposition. MR. SIMMONS: YE•s, Ml". SpE!aker.

They brought :in t·.he Stat.us oF Wo1nt:H1 Council, they rnaciE• the appo:i.nl~rnent., and I say to him that that. appo:int.lrll:!l'd: i.s now caJLing for a r·eso1utj_on of Ud.s problem. rhe President of that ~)latus of Wo!Tien' s Council, appointed by this administration, says that what happened last Wednc::~sclay and rhtu·sday in this House is an insuJ.t to working 1nothers, Lo· tht=!ir chi1din(•n, and to LhE!ir spouSE!S.

If he lAianl.s, Mr·. ~3peakE!r, l.o parade bd'ore l.h""i.s Chamber l.he St.atus oF Women Counc"i.l., 1et him tel] us tJJhaL h(~ plans t.o do. 1.2')87 JunP 8, l'.J8'7 Vo 1 XL PREMIER PECKFORD: Does ne nave a questton, Mr. Speaker? MR. SIMMONS: Mr. Speaker, yes I have a question. I haVE! a question, and I thought. U1e Premit:•r gave us a fai.r arnount. of t:he iHlStAJeJ" in h:i s fi~st response. Will he go a step further? He says he will resolVE! :i.t, and he says, in his tirnE•. I subrrdt he dof:!S no\ havE! rnuch t.i111e on this parl":.:icu.lar 0111:!. Now, Mr. Speaker, I ask him: Wl·lt:!I"J will he resolve :it?

He has undertaken, and I !":hank hi.m, to resoJ.ve this matter, which is a recognition that there is a problE!ITI, and t:hal" :i.s a new sjgn fi~OITI l'l".iln, t:hal: theine i.s a prob1E'ITI. fie has unclert.akE'n Lo resolve it.. Can he indicate l:o the Housf:! whE•n hE! wj]J rE!so1ve L.hc probl.em? Can hE! also "i1idical:.e to the House whether, Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Solial Services, subsequent to his stal:.E•menl. J.a~=;\.. W (! d nP s d a y , h a s o f f e r· {:! d I. h e P r 1::! rn oi. t::! r his resjgna"l":.ion fr·orn Cabinel:., ar1d a l s o , M r .

S p e a k e r , c a n lw , t. h e .Pr·ern:i.er, indi.cate whet.hr!r' he ha~:. talked to Lhe 111inisl.er· about: Lhi.s particuJ.ar subject? SOME HON. MEMBERS: liear, hE:'ar! Ml~. SPEAKER: The hon _ Uw Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr.

Speak{:!ln, l:hE! besl~ t~Jay IAJU can pr'ovE• t:o Lhe lAJOIIIf•n and at lhe people of thoi.s Province Lhat we ar·e serious about I.JJhat lAJ(• have alrPady done i.s Lo do rno1~,,., l:o do more in day care and homemaker servoices, Lo do rnor'H .:i.n trans i l:.ion houses, to do ITIOl"E• in aJ] of thu arE:'as that LJJE· cH'e rE!Sponsi.blE! f'or· begj_nning and st.arU.nt:J s":i.nce No. 56 1'~2')8'1

1979. And that is what we want to do, Mr. Speaker, continue to E!nlarge thE!SE· pr·ograrnmE!S which we have increased 100 per cent and increase thern another 100 per cent over l:ha next few y1:•ars and, through our policies and through our prograrnmes and through our money, Jet our rnonE!Y and out" poJ.ici.E·s spt::'ak For whE!re t;.Je s l:and 011 thE!SE• isSlH:'S, as WE! haVE! in t:hE! past and we intend l:o do. MR. SIMMONS: A final supplementary, Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER : A final supplementary, the hon . the Leader of the Opposition. MR. SIMMONS : We support all i·:hat, Mr·.

Sp1:~akE~r. rnor'E!, more, rnorE!, but t:hE! qUE!St.ion i. s how can an arson is t look a F 1:. e r the fire brigade? How can l:he 111ini.s Ler uJho does no 1: be:l'i.E!VI:'! Ln thoSE! things bE! put :i.n chargE!, I say t:o l:he Premier, of adminis Lering those pr·ograrnmE·S. or expanding th1:~m. of i rnproving them? That is the concern that women of .this Provi.nce and a] 1. oF us haVE! about this par·ticuJar issue. How can the Premier justify to this House, to the mothet"S, to l:he chi.J.dt"E•n uJho tJJere insulted by the minister, having this minister continue, par·ticularJ.y in this par·t:i cuJ.ar portfolio?

His personal phiJ.osophy, he has dE•tTtonstTat:ed, publicly Fl:L1)s in l:he face of tJJhat the government professes it is l:rying to do. II: Fli.1:!S direcUy in the face of that, Mr. Speaker. It. has been said t.hat thE! rn:i nis t.E•r tJJas ·speak·ing in a Pr·ival:e ME'!Iflbt:.•r·s' debate on Wednesday. On Thursday, in ansuJer·oing ques ti.ons, he t;.Jas speaking as L:he rrrinis l:.er'. Hot;.J can Lhe Premier justify the continuance of t:h:is rninisLE!r', L/.'988 Jurw 8. l ')87 Vol XL particularly in this port:foJio? PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr . SpPaker . MR. SPEAKER : The hon . the PrE•rniE!r. PREMIER PECKFORD: M r .

S p 1:;! a k e r , w h a t 1/J E• h a v E! 1: o d o a s a govel"nment - I am not·. going to get into an argutn1:•nl: ovt?.r l:hi.s minister or t:hat minister - to provt?. to t:he tJJOI'nt:!n of l. he Provi .nc1:• and the people generaJ.J.y - not: only lhr::> uJornen, i·:her·E! at~E! a J.ol:. oF men and other peopJ.e out t.:hetne 1..\JI-,,:, b e l i. e v e v e r y s t r o n g 1 y i. n uJ h a L t/J e arE! tr·ying l::o do as -:i.t:. relates to tJJOITIE!n 1 s issues and day car'e -- is to do rnor'E! than 1.1.1E' cH'E• doi .ng now: We have lo pul:. mot"e ITloney into clay carE!, rnot"E! tTIOI1E!Y tnto hotnemakc:·r· SE!rvict:=•s, rnor'1::• rnonE!Y inl:.o t:ransition houses.

Mr. Speaker, that. is uJhat uJe have b1,=·en cloi.ng cons'istentJ.y fr·om 1.979 to Lht~; rnornent:. Th1=:!re has nE•ver been a stagnant:. budget tn LhE•se ar·ec:~s of' goVE!rnrnent. Ev1:!ry yt::•ar LherE! hdve been tncreases and there w'iJl be. And, by the way, Mr.

SpeakE·r, j t.ts t as a total recognition oF l:.hal:., il: rnay come as a sut"prise Lo SOITIE! l:hat s:ince 1.9'79 to 198 1), and hte!t'e is a st:artling figure which demonsl·:rat:es l:hE! conc(:•rn l:.hal: wonlE•n have and rrd ni. s ter·s, ].·i.kE:o the M i n is 1: E! r 1\ e s pons i b 1 I? and 1: he Minister of Justtce, there have been /.'5,000 people added to Lhe J.abour force of Newfoundland and Labrador. Fr'orn 19'79 to 19() 1), 2~i.OOO pE!opJ.e i:o thE! J.abour' lor'CE' that -is thE! J.at.1:•st ~.t:al:.i.sl:.ic and 2:1,000 of UlE:·m have been l.~JOiflE:!rl, 1~, 000 haV1!. beun IIWn. SOME HON.

MEMBERS: Heat", h<~!ar! PREMIER PECI<FORD : No. 56 IU988

lhat mE!ans, Mr. SpE!akE:'r, t.hat the whole dernograph:Lcs of this whole society has changE!d. Are tAlE! atnE ! not sensit.ive enough to recognize that and therefore do more than we are doing notJJ? Well, obviously tAle arE!, Mr. SpE!akE!r, by thE! incr·eaSE!S of 100 per cent and 1 1)0 per cent . in these prog1narnrnes, in that they haVE! l:.o be enlar·ged and I?.Xpanded, and you haVE! to havE• a day carE! Ct:.>nl:re her·e on t.he governiTH~nl: . premises and other day care centres around the Province.

We must E!nJ.argE• and expand, because in the last five to si.x yE•ars t:he increase in the labour Force of 2S, 000 individuals has been 21,000 women and LJ., 000 TfiE!n. ObviousJ.y tAle have to respond to that reality. MR. W. CARTER: Mr . Speaker. MR . SPEAKER: rhe hon. the member for Tt.~d 11 i. n g ate . MR. W. CArnER : Mr. Speaker, rny quesl:ion got:•s to the hon. the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Rideout) .

In view of the fact that this year's caplin fisher\} :is in very serious l:r·oubl.e because of problems in the tnat~ketplactc !, problems that should have been antjcipated by the tninisl:.t:'r iHld dt :!c:d.t tAJ'iLh, tAJhat. : steps is the minister taking to av1:!r·t tAJhat. appears to I:H~ a total disaster with the caplin fishery Lhis IJC;ar·? MR. SPEAKER : The han. the Minister of F~sheries . MR . RIDEOUf: ·Mr. SpE!aker, I thank LhE! hon . gentleman For his question. He :indicates that. the probJ.E!ITlS shouJ.d have been an t-·.i.c ipat.t::•d, and in fact t.hE!Y havE! beE!rl anticipated, Mr.

Speaker. [l: has been known and L2989 JunE· 8, 1987 Vo1 XL actE•d upon by my dopc.u·t:rnent., for t:he last nurnbE!r' of monl:hs and weeks, that there has been an increase in Lh1~ amount oF caplin avaiJ.able to t.he Japanese from Iceland and other sources, and that there would be pressure on the Nc•tJJfoundldnd producer's and the Newfoundland fishermen this year. I ind:icat:E!d to a quesU.on, I belit•ve it . tJJas From the hon. gentleman from . Pot"t. de Crave in t.his Hous e onll} last t.11eek, lhal:. [ had bE· C! n in cons t. ant: cont . act w:i t h bot:h sides in those negol:'ial·:ions.

I have maintained daily co~t.act, pr·act.icalliJ, tAJiLh Lhern si.ncH t.hal: ti.rrtE!. I bE!liE!Ve, if it ha~. been arrangPd, l:hat shot"l·.ly aFb:•r Questjon Period today I wilJ be rn E! e 1·: i n g f a c E! t o f a c l"! tAl i L h s o 11w o F t:hem agajn . ~)o t:h:i. s rn:inistE•r and this department, Mr.

Spf•riker, arc, doing everything pos~.ibJ.e that . tAlE' can do biJ sl:al} ing on top oF LhE· s i t u a t. :i. o n a n d h E' ] p i n q o u l. tAl h e n· v e r tAle can l:o resolve LhE· problt!lfl in tE!riiiS or capJ.in pr·o duc Lion lo l:.hE'! best advantage of the fisl'l(!l"lflen and t.hE' prOCE!SSOI''S ol this Pr·ovince. SOME IW~..:.. __ Mf.l1~ _E ~~~ : Hear, hear! MR. W. CARTER : A suppl.E:!Irtentary, Mr. ~3P~"aker . MR. SPEAKER: A suppJ.ementary, the lrtE.'Inber for l'tAJi1lingal·:e. MR. W. CARTER : hon . the Mr .

Speaker, [ doubt very mu ch i.f the fjshermen or Lhis Province, tAJhO are rlOlAJ wai.t :'ing Lo COIIIIIlE!I'lC1:• . t.he cap]jn fi.sher·y, w:i"ll agt ~ ee !:hat: !:he rninistE!r has done a:J.l 1·1~:• shou]d have done. I a1n l:ighl: No . 56 asking the of this min :i ~; t (' r· n OIAI : In years Pl"ob1utns R2989

~c maybe it is l~oo latE! nouJ l.:o correct the problems t.h:is yeaJ" what tAJi.ll the rn:ini.steJ" be doing in the futurE!, for· example, to put a proper mat"kel~:ing and Jnegulatotny system :in place to preVE!nt a recurrence of what happened this year? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries . Ml~. RIDEOUT: Min. SpE!akeJn, first. of cdJ., in terms of Lh•~ hon. gE•nt.lernan' s

preamble, the fishermen may or may not be ·on the satne wavelt:>ngt.h as the hon. gE!nt.lE!man, but certainly Lhe representatives of the fishermen - I cannot deal with 25,000 or 30,000 fishermen, that is irnpossibJ.e and j_rnpract.:ical -· I t:hin.k would agr't:>e, bol:h factions out there, that I have been in v ''! r y c 1 o s e con t a c t. t..~r:i L h L h t.' 1n o v •? r' the J.as t nurnbE!r' of wE•eks and ~fave offered to assist: wherever we can.

Now, secondJ.y, on the subs l:an LivE• part of hi.s qu•?st:l.on, he tAJill also r'E!aliZE! that in this House, again I am not sure if it was in response to a question from the hon. g•?ntlE!rnan only last uJeek, I jndicat.E!d to h:im l:.hat JAJe arE• putl::Lng some veJ"Y sl~ringenl~ monil:oring operations in pJ.ace l:.h.i.s year as a J"esul.l~ oF rE•quest:s from the fishermen's representatives and the processors' representatives.

I hr'J.VE' cornrniLl:ed l:.his dE!part:Jnent and this admjnislration to put.tjng thoso ·in a l.l:.g:islat:-Lve Fr<:HneuJork for implementation in 1988, :if that. is cleem.:•d to be appt"opr'.iat·e, Following our experience from thjs y Par'. NotAl, Mr. br'and llE!lAJ addi l~ion t.o Lop of the Speaker, all that is inj. U .at:i.VE!S, and :in that we are staying on discus s ions and I uJ:i 11 U'J90 JUnE! 8, l~)8'7 Vo1 XL. b ~! rn e E• t: i n g lAJ i l: h s o 1 n e o F L h .::~ p •?. o p 1 t:! involvod later on today. I do not know what more one can do, Mr. SpE·aker. MR. W. CARTER: A final supplementary, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the hon . tho member for Twillingate. MR. W. CARTER: I arn a!AJClr'e of the rnonj _t.or:i.ng pr'ograJJIJJle -l:hat l:.h•:! m:inisl.t•l" is putting in place but I aJn nol. sur' E• t.hat is going to bl:O enough. Whal~ j_s l.:he min:istE·r gcd.ng to do, for' exarnpl.e, to elitn:Lnai:E! thE! chaos that is in the marketplace LhJs year? That is where chaos starts, :i.n the marketplace. W~iJJ. the rrrin:is t.er. for' example, g Lve sotllE! though La es l:.abJ.JshJ ng soJJJC' lcind of a marketing board to ensure t.ha.t. nE!Xt. year thj.s pt" ob1ern dop~; not happen? MR.

SPEAKFR : The hon. the Minister of Fisheries. MR. RIDEOUT: M1n. ~:;peaker', this rrdnJster', thjc; adtn 'inis l~ral~.ion and this goveri1Jlwnl~ are open to overy and a] l possib:il.ities, tAJhE!I-:hE!r it: is markeLJng boards, whether it is using l:he full For·c•:! of boil<"lLt!r'al Lrade negotiations between Canada and Japan, uJhatevt•r the lnechiHli~:.JJJs are wb are open in totality to try l·:.o use those l~o the advanl:.aq•::! oF t.he fishE·rmen and thE· pr·oces~;ors involved Ln capLin in N•:•t.uFoundJand c1nd l .. abr'ador. One facL Luc· . t.ui1J never' gE!t ,''lway Fr'otn, Mr.

Speakur, no matt-.eJn how much JAJ(=· IAJ<.inL l.o, .-is t.he very facl:. that: th•:!r't::! ts only one trnporLE!ln for rE'JJJaJe cap]jn in L.h:Ls lAJOrld l:.oday, and thal~ is l· ht::· Japanose. Now, we have been t:rying Lo . d"iv•"!Jns"ify, and l hl'IVC! been cr'it.ic:izE•cl frorr1 L:ltne Lo l..:itne No. ~i6 R::2990

for tr·ying to d:iVE!rsify int.o othE!r' rnarket niches and ol:her· mai"ket pol:.ential for caplin, and I am going to continue~ t.uith that, Mr. SpE!akE•r. The fact of thE! matl: .E!r is ther·e . is only one oi.mpor·ter ·for femaJ.e caplin, rOE! in LhE• whoJe lAJOrld today and that. is t:.he JapanesE•, and lAJhE!reVE!r thei"E! exists a rnonopoJ.y, Mr.

Sp,::!akt•J", tAll?. are going to haVE! t.hE• saniE! problE!Tn 1::-or· a long, long l: ime t.ha r·. lAIC~ haVE! today because, unfortunately, right:1.y or t.urongly, whether' tAle tJJant to bE!l:ieVE! it., whethE!r tAlE! !Alan t to accept j t or no 1:, ti'H>.y are calJ.ing the shots. But. we wilJ try everything in Lhe world to rnake it as d:ifficuJ.t as possibl.E! for thern to call the shots. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. LUSH: Mr . Speaker. MR. SPrAKER : The hon . the rTIE!mbel" for· Bonavist.a Norl:h. MR. LUSH: M_r.

Speaker, I tAJant to ask thE· PretniE!r whether he is now disregarding the time-honoured parliamentary tradition of collective Cabinet rlo!Sponsibi1 i. ty? NotAl, Mr. Spr:•akr;r, . t hi s is not the f :i. r' s t l. i111 e t h a t·:. this ln·inisl:.ur' has b':!10!n guilt:y of r'unning ofr · at: the rnouth. NotAl, tJJ h ,::~ t. i s t h e P r' ''! nri e I" g o -i n q t_ o d o ? Does he subscribe to this l:.i1ne--honour'E.~d tradition oF Cabinet: rE!Sponsib:iJ:i .ty?

How are the people of this Province to know lAJhE·n the rn:inister is not speaking as 1ninister? l)o(•s {:he 11rinist:er not. a1tAiays speak, tJJhen he speaks rlE'rE:•, as a lninistE!r, inside 01" outsidE! of t.hE• HouSE!? What j s L he Pi"eln.i.Pr going l:.o do about l:h'i.s? How are the people of Lhis 1_~ 991 June 8, 1987 Vol XL Province to know when ministers are speaking on b1:!ha.lf of gover·nrnent: or when t.hE•y arE ! just: running off at thE• mouth? SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hE!ar! MR. SPEAKEr~ : The hon . LhE! Pr(,~nrier . PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr.

SpE•akE!r, I think I have answered that question. [t has carnE· up on a numbE!r of oc.cc!S:ions alr,=>.ady :in Quesl:i .on Pel"iod and all I can say to the hon. rnt:•rnbE!I" ::is l: h i>. l:. 1.1.1 E! a r e g o :L n g r: o c o n t. :i n u e l:.o expand our programmes in social services relating to day care, relating to transition houses, relating to all r:hosE• l:hings tJJhi .ch are important to reflec~ Lhe realil:y of thE· situat.ion, tAJh i.c h is that th .e female par ·t:icipc!t:ion :in the work force is going up and lhe rnale participation rate :in the lAiork for'C(! is going dot.~.m. 13ecaUS(! t:hat :i.s a funda1nen'LaJ rea-J:Lty of our society aml of all soci.~"!l: .i ,)s in the Wesl'E!r'n lAIOr'1d, and tAr:i-1] no doubt ineuitably b<:• Lru1:! oF etJc·n a1J of the tJJor<Ld ,tJJE' haVE!

Lo devise and design polici< :!s Lo rE!Spond to lhal. That 'is tAJhcd .. tAlE' are doing . We haue had 100 a11d 1.50 per cent incr'easE•s i_n budgE•ts in those areas and we are going l:.o continue t.o do that unL.:iJ tAlE! ar·e r'<'!Sponchng to, in a l'ull tAJay, those kinds of new needs that have come ~P in the last Few years . MR. LU~3H : A final supplementary, Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: Tiw --h-oli-:--·IJ-1 E! rn ,,. rn b co r' f' o r ' B o n a v i s l:. a Nor'th. MR. LUSH : Thal:. is fine, the Pr·ernj _E!r' No . S6 Mr. Speaker, but gcdng t-.o kPc:•p l . c -· a R299l

rntnister lAJho 1 s in !:his House oppoSE!d lo t:he gov•:1rnment. Is them? PREMIER PECKFORD : Mr . Sp eaker . MR . SPEAKER : views articulated are diametrically statE! oF v:iE!lAJS of he going to keep The hon. the Pr•:!m:i1:!r . PREMIER PECKFORD: I am surE! the ndnist.E!r wi1J. respond to the views that the goVE!rnrnE!nl:. :l.s arU.culat:ing, Mr·. Speaker. MR . SPEAKER : Order, please! The time For Oral Questions has elapsed. Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees MR . BAKER : Mr . SpE•aker . MR . SPEAKER : ThE! hon. the rnembE!r for Gander . Ml~ . BAKEr~: Thank you, Mr. Speaker .

I IAJould likE! to table the report of the Public Accounts Committee of the HouSE! of AsSE!mbly dealing with lhE! F:i.nanciaJ year· lAJhi ch encl•c!d March 31, 1985. I wou1d just like to take a few seconds to say that in spil:e of l·:he Fact that: thE!r'e is a rn:i.nol~:i.Ly rE!port on one :i l:~!m, I would 1:LkE! l:o !:hank Lh(> cornrni t.l:ee members for Lhe co-operation and sptrit of good lAJilJ. that. l~_hE•y have exhibited l:hroughout _ what [ fE!i;!l hatJe been very productive hearings. l.2992 Junr:· 8, 1987 Uo] XL. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKE I~: The hon . the GoVE!rnlTIE!nl. 1-louse Leader.

MR . OTTENHEIMER : I cannot res'ist, nurnber one, weJ.coming the han. gentJeman 1 s tabling l:hE! report, and I cou 'ld not. rE!sjst. whE!I1 hE• sajd tha L although il: is a ll'lajor.i.ty J~.:•por·l:, 0 11 0 11 E! i t E' ITI t h E! I" e j_ S a rn j 11 0 r i. l y J~eport. I would assu1n•=.! Lhe hon. gent.J.E!rnan probabJ.y is s:ignatory t.o the minority report, and unfort.unateJ.y the hon. gE!nt]E!IlliHl has had somE! experience lAI'i.l:h minority report.s. I probably should not have said that. 0 0 0 Petitions MR . SPEAKER : The hon . the rnernbE• r f'or · Steph,~nvi1ll'>-. SOME HON. MEMBERS: HE•ar, hear! Mf~. K .

AYLWARD : l'hank you, Mr. Speaker . Mr· . Speaker, I present a pet.j L:-ion today from forty . residenl:s of B<~y St. George prot.esLjng the thirty -five positions lhat ·have beE!n cutback, around LhE· Pr·ovinCE '!, 'i.n l:he [)(!partrnPnL ul ~3oc ·la1 Services. Mr. Speaker, the governmenl hds ·faiJed t.o respond to the pel:.il: .:ions presentE!d thus Far' and LhP concerns expreSSE!d Fr·o1n a.ll OVl :!r the Province by people who are appall~~cl Lhat the govc•rnment cou]d No. ~)6 R2992

make such a move, cutting back services that people of · this Province clE!Speral.ely neE!d, and .in an arE!c-l. lAJherE! the pE!OpJ.ii:~ tAJho nE•ed it most, who are in need of LhE! servicE!, .who arE! in need of the help oF rehabi1:itation, who ar'e in thE! need of child care services. who are in the need of Further development in the field of foster children and foster parenl.s, all of thes€~ ser'vicE•s. M1~. SpE!aker. t: h a l: a 1n c• s o cl e s p-E! r' a t 1?. 1 y n e lc' d f:l d a n d by thE:' peopJ.E! who nE!E!d t.hem rnos t.:. It. is not ft~iJ.ls or anyt:h.i .ng, Mr. SpE!aker.

ThesE! ar'E! people who day by day have a difftcult -tirne getting aJ.ong and mctkj ng a l:iving and ptl t:ting food on t.he tabJ.e. This govern1n1:!nt. has dec:id1:!d that: in order to · save SE!VeraJ. hundrE!d Lhousand dollars t:hE!Y arr:- going t:o cut back t:.hirty--fiVE! posiU .ons. Mr. Speaker, it is obviously a government: t.hat has decided that social conscience is not needed when you are governing if they are going to cut back in an area where there is more needed instead of less.

This government·: h<>s taken that position and it is a position t h a 1:. lAI e lAI i 11 o p p o s e • tA.d 11 c o ~ t i n u e to oppose from here until they are out of goVE!rnrn(:•nt, t.uhoi_ch I e'Xpect t.uj 11 bE! short 1 y . as soon as thE:! P r· o tni ~::• r d c~ ei d E• s to pull t-:1·1 ~~ p 1 u g . Mr . Sp,~akc=>.r, tAll?. are going t.o ke ep presenting the view that social services and the area of social SE!rvjces jn th:is ProvinCE! are c)(•Spi?.rat .e1y n'?.l::.ck•d and 1nor·e services c:tr ··e needE!d. rnor·e rnonE!Y is needed, cu1cl tnore positions ar'r::~ nE!E!decl.

The govennnent-. :i.s fa:iling t·:o r'ecognize this, tnaybe b1?.cause t h E! y h a v E~ b l'~ E· n L h E· r' e f o r s o J o n g , Mr. Speaker . It ts just like, 1 WE! J.)_ , lAJ E' IAJ":j'j ] 9 E• t: r j_ d 0 f a f E! lAI her'E! and a few t:.hr!t~e. 1 They go around and they appoint these patronage positions at a great L2993 June 8, 1987 UoJ. XL e x p e n s e of rn o n e y . Y e t L h (! y tAli 11 go and they will cut back thirty--f-.iVE! posit.:ions in an aJ"r:•a, if you are a government :in a province wil":h 25 per cent unempJ.oymE·nL, would be Lhe J.ast thing that you would think oF cutting back.

It should be the last:. thing you cut back, cut Lhi.s goVE!rnrnent thinks it ~i.s thE• fjr'sl: thing you should cut back, and they have been continuing to do so. We had rurnot~s jus L a IAih:i.J.e ago of t.tAJEHll:y - Four or' t:lAJenty --1'-'ive 1110re cutbacks that were going to appei:1r . WE! g• "!l:. a tninist:er, in public. lAJho is rE!SponsibJ.e fo1" day car' e • say in g lAJO r k i r1 ~l Jno the r' s a I" •::1 raising deJ.inquent:s.

The PrE!Jrt:i.er ' deFends that: posit- ion and says that thE!rE• is nothing IAJrong tAJ:i.t.h saying that. 1n Lhis Provin ce, how can somebody get atAJay IAJ:ilh Lhat who is responsiblo For advocating day care? l do nol know. The Pru111iE!r has Lo anst.~Jer to the people of Newfound]ancl l-or · t:ha t. He does not: IAJan t t:.o. bu L when he geLs around Lo j[, he 1 n i g h t . W E• ll I d o n o t: k n o lAJ . [ think he :is suppose to be accountable, in l:his Hous~ :· of AssernbJ.y, to the pe6pJe of N1:1tAJFoundland and l_abrador . And I lAJO u J d w"i ~; h 0 n E· 0 r t hE! 5 (' day,, • M I" .

Speakeln, .insth'l.cl ol g:i1J i.ng us thesE! rnany greal tAtorcls o( r h '" t o r' i c . l: h a t: iH• cl o h :i. s j o b d n d make his rrd .nist.ers account..ab]e rot" IAJhat. l.:hey say and h·is gov•:·rnttt,;•nt account.ablE•. lhank you, Mr. Speaker MR. EFFORD: Mr. Speai<C"r. MR . SPEAKER : The hon . the tlJE!mber' r·or · flor'L de CraVE!. MR. EFFOIW : No. ~)6 R2993

"'- Thank you, Mr. Speakt:or· . Mr. SpE!aker, I am glad l:ha l: I have the opportunity to rise in my place this afternoon and support thE! peb.U.on so ably pi~E!SE!n't:.E!d by 1ny colleagUE! For Sl:ephenvoi.lle. And it is a continuatjon of a nurnber of stal:.t:!mE!nts thal·. tJJe have had to rnake clnd haVE! bE!E!n forced t·:o make because of the Minis l:eln of Social 5ervices 1 s (Mr. Brett) aU:.:LtudE! l:owar·ds IYi.s department: and towards the people of this Province. ·The petition, Mr.

SpE•akE!r, very clear·J.y s t:atE!S that the people in this Province are dissatisfied with the recent cutbacks in LhP Department: of Social Services and the E!ffect l·:hat thE!Y do havt:' on chi.ld cal"e and social workers, and the OVE!rload l:hat :il: is caus:Lng l:he individual social workers in the districts and regional oFfices throughout the Province of NE!Wfoundland and Labrador. l_as t. week, in supporting pt?.ti t.tons previously presented by my c o 11 e a g u e a n d o t h cH' 1 n E.~ 1 n b t'?.r' s o F l h e Opposition, on t.his sidE!, I couJd not undc~r·st:and why the Minister of Soci~l Services was having these cutbacks at l:.his t.i.me uJhen ht:! said that in 1987 we have as many people depending on the social SE!TViCE! system as WE! did in 1.986, but at the sa1ne l:.irnE! hr,~ st:•E!S fi.t to cut back thirty-five peopJ.e.

But no~ we understand, not the prE'SS unde1nsiands, now l:.hE• peop]E! of · l:h i. s Prov·.ince undt:!rs t.a11ds IJJhy the rnin:ister is dojng IAJhat. he is doing.

We can SE!E' exactly why the statement.s were made by ~he Minisl:er of Social Services last week in fhe House of Assembly, last WE!dnt':!sday and again last Thursday, and again repeatedly ovt:!r and over t.hjs ull:~ekt:!nd to l:hE! p r' E• S S in r E! 9 a r d l 0 IAJO r k j_ n 9 ITIO t. hE! r S of t.h:is Pr·ovince, l:.hE· stab:•1nunt hr:' l.299Lj JunE· 8, 1987 Vol XL. rna cl E! t hal: t: he cor r 1?. c l: :i. on a 1 c E! n l:: r· 1:! s arE! fi]]E!d becaUSE• l:he parE!nLs or· l:.his ProvinCE! clt:!t:oln it. nect:!ssar·y Lo go out to wor·k. Any M:i.n:is;h:•ln or ..

S o c:i a 1 S 1:~ r v :i. c e s uJ h o IAJ o u 1 d 111 a k e t.hoSE! stat.E•rnents Eo:ither tn Uw HousE.~ of AsSE!ITibly or· publicly outside of thE! House, Mr·. Speakel", i.s a IILinisl:.t:!r who is nol: colnpt:!l~(·nt of doing his job at all. SOME HON. MEMBERS: HE!ar, hoar! MR. EFFORD: I think todaythat was backed up today, although somewhat shE!epishly, by the M:!rdster• o[' Career Devt?.loplllent <::tncl Advanced Studies, by the Mjnisler of Justice and even by Lhe Premier h i111 s E! 1 f .

EvE· r y quest. ion t-. hat IAJ<:H put t.o those Lhree 1n:l.nis LE•I"S t.oday thE!Y circled ari:)Lrnd ancl evaded a d-.ilnt;:!Ct. anSIAJt:!r: Was l:he Min.i.st.er· of ~)ociaJ. f.)ervicE•S cornpel:.E•nl.. or· do:i.ng l:he job? 1.-\las hu a responsible minist.er? ThesE> were Lhe d:l.rf'!C L quc>s l:.·ions Lila l: wer·e pul .. , and nejthE!r· onE! of LhE·rn, alL.hough l:hey said t:hey tli.d not. agree wit.h Lhe slatemen l s, a n s IAJ u r· r~ d cl i r· e c l: 1. y . fl u l: 1: h to! y h <:<t v e to speak out because il is necessary t.o satisFy every parE!n'l: ·.

Not only the 1nolhE•rs of' l:IYis Prov:ince bul: t:!very parent. in thts Pr·ovinCE! has L.o ac~k Lhe qUt:!sl:ton: What clo uJe havE· Fu1··· a Min:i.sl.er of ~)octal ~)er·vices? And a 11 y b o d y IJJ h o c a n s i l: i. 11 C a b i 11 t'! l.·. a n d go a]ong wjl.h the Minister of ~3 o c i a 1 S 1:! r v 'i c E! s , IJJ h o h d s E' x pI" e s ~; 1:· d his att.J.tude outside or Cabinet, and tell us t.hat he hMs a cornp1E!te1y dj f'fE·rE·nL al.l:i Lude :inside oF Cab'inEd:., is ju~.L as ba.d as t.he rnjnister himself. SOME HON. MEMBER~) : Hear, hear! Ml~. TULK: - --- - No. ~)6 R299LJ.

J,~kyll and Hyde. MR. EFFOIW: Jekyll and Hyde, an old story, Mr . Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we now unders land why the Minister of Social Service cut back on the thirty-Five people, because the rn:in:i.ster hc~d on that particular day a tol~a1ly diffl~renl~ perception on what was going on in the Department of Sodal Se1nvices that hE• d:i.d t·.hE! day bE!for·e . It is very, very inconsistent, Mr. Speaker.

And that further backs up our demands on l~he Pr1:=!rniEH', our' demands on the government opposit:e, t.hat t.hat. rn"inist,O!r', as sorne peop1E! suggE!StE!d, should not only apologize to the people of Ud s P r o v i n c E• -·- no , t hat i s not enough, al t.hough he must cert<.CJ. ··Lnly apologiZE! to E•very parent :i_n this Province .- but the most serious thing to be done is he has to bE! taken out of that Department of Social SE•JnViCE!S ·--and not, a~; was suggestE!d Lo rne today, possibly be put in another portfolio.

No, t:here is no portfoLio, no Cabinet post w:ithin any government, any _place in our democratic society wh:ich a min:ister' udth an at ·t ttudE! of Lhe OE:~parl:ment of Social Services couJ d f:i] 1. And there :i_s only one t.uay that l~he Pr'eJnier can SE!nd a clear rnE!ssage out t.hat he is responsible to the people of th:i s ProvincE• and t.he on] y mE:!s sagE! h~ can send out - he has to increaso clay carE!, he has t:o incJ"eas'" sPrvicr:!S ·- is t.o do sornet.hoing about Lh:is probJern, Mr ·. ~3 p c~ a k e r : C 1. C' a n u p l: h 1?.

D e p a r- t 1 n e n t of Social ServicE•s, pr·oviciE ! a better day care sysl ern, increase lhE' status of our youth ofFPnders and t:h1:=! plau,s LI·H~y have:! t:o s l~ay, Mr. SpE!aker, and providE• be'LLer s '" r· v ·i, c e s r i g h t l: h r o u g h o u t , F r· o rn thE' boi:Lorn r'ight to t-.1-w t_op of lhE!

Soc.ial S1:!rvi cr:!S Depart1~ent L299S June 8, 1987 Vol XL irr11ned-.iately - not -next t.ueek, not next month, but: irmnediatE!1y dernand Lhe rE!signat--_ion of l~he Minis t.er of Social Services, and put a pE!rson Lher1~ whom LhE· pE '!Oplt> of this Pr'ov:i.nce can bu:i .ld up scllne confidence :in, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, Mr . Speaker. MR. SPE'AKFR: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORO: Mr. Speakc-!r, I support·: Ll·w principle of the pet:ition presentc~d by Lhe hon. Jnernbur' in t.hat therE! has to bE! an impr'oveJTIE!nl:_ :in social service ~> · i.n Lhe Province.

That is why the budgE:d: roSE! fr·orn :f,]()/.~ rnill .ion \:0 $111 million from last year Lo l~ h i s y e a r a n d u.J e a r· e i n L h E· process cif improving sociaJ services. 0 0 0 Mr. Sp1:=!aker - MR. SPEAKFR : The hon , thE! Prern :i.er . PREMIER PECKFORD: - before we get inLo Orders of the Day, I would like to, at thjs t.i1n'"", IIK>VC:' l~ha t l:he hon. Lhe rne1r1ber for' l.aPoile (Ml".

M:i .l:ch (;!]}) be t-:he Deput_y Chait-'IJJan ol Co~r~rn:ittE•E!S, because tAlE' have been lAd.thoul:_ sol n,:-body Ln ll1aL part:i.cular ·capaciLy and il is high l:.i1 ne t:hal tAle n1ovc~ lo Fill l:hal vacancy so that we can provide for the smoother running oP Lhe House. MR. SPEAKEI~ : It: :is moved and SE!Condecl l:'hai.. L-he han. mernber For' 1_aPo il1• be 0E!p11Ly Chairman of Cornmitlees. No . ~>6 R 2 9 9 (,

All l:hose in ·Favour· 'Aye' . SOME HON. MEMBFRS: Aye! · MR. SPEAKER: Those against., 'Nay' . CarriE!d. Orders of the Day MR. OTTENHEIMER : Order No. 14. debate on Bill 19 . T'he adjourrwd MR. SPEAKE I~: The adjourned debate on second reading of bill 19, 11

An Act To AmE!nd The EmE!rgE!IlCY Measures Act. 11 MR. SPEAKER : If thE! hon. thE! M:in:i.ster· Municipal Affairs s~eaks now closes the debate. Mr~. DOYLE : of hE! Mr. Speaker·, i. t gives mr~ pl,:=!asurE! to move second reading of the bi1.1, and to respond t.o a couple oF concerns t.hat WE!re pul f'or·th _by Lhe ln,:'!rnber For Bul~gt:!O -· flay d' Espoir (M1··. G:i.] bert). HE• said a coup1e oF days ago, tAJh•:!n debating thE! bill, that thE• DE•parlm~'!nL of Municipal Af'fa·irs u.Joul.d bt::! l:Tying t~o make the E:rnergE!ncy Measur·es Organization a political organizaUon. That, of coursE•, Mr.

Speaker, does not desE:~lnve any comment, because a comment 1ike l:ha.L ·is l~ea1ly only an insu1t. t:.o the Emergency Measures Organization itse1f. Il: tAJill not be a political organizatjon and never has been a politica1 organization. BE!CClUse any council in l:hE! Province, Your Honour, which asks for a plan to be set up by the Emergency Measures Organization, that indivjdual 1. :? ') ') 6 June 8, 198'/ Vol XL council is given every consideration by not change. EMO and that will He wondered what the rationale for the'! move is, to t:r·ansfer· EMO into the Department of Municipal Affair·s.

I think tAJe haVE! alr':~ady gone over what the rationale is for· l:hat 1novt:! :in gr1:~al: cl1:!t.ail, and it is because it is considered l:ha t th1:> trans f'1:!r o I EMO l:o L:hE• department would supply a cJeaf messagE! l·:o counci.ls a.ll around l::he Province that the Department of Municipal AFFairs is directly involved in emergency plannin~ and r1:!sponse. ThosE! arE• about the onJy corniTI€:!nls l:.hat were lllade tAJ.iLh rE!SpecL. to l.:he biJ.J., Ml~. SpeakE!r, and ~. l gjvE•S IT!('.! pJ.easure to move second reading. On· moU.on, a bLl.J., 'An Act.

T o Am1:!nd T'he Emergency Measures Act:, 11 rE!ad a second t.ilnE•, or·dE!Ined reFer·rc~d 1:.0 a COifll'lliLl:eE:~ or· thE! Whole House on tomorrow. (Bill No. l. 9) Mot.ion, S10!cond r·~~adiny of a bill, "An A c l: To ArTIE! nd The Mun.i.c ipa1i L·.ies A c l:. 11 ( lli Ll No. 9) . MR. SPEAKER : ThE! hon. thE! M:i nis Ler· of Mun:.i c:.i paJ A r Fair· s . MR. DOYLE : Mr·. Speaker·, Bi11 No. 9, "An Ac.l:. To Amend l'he Munic:ipal.i . t: ·ies Acl: 11 , js r'E!a]Jy a r·out:i.nE' type or· BiJJ that b1~ings For·l.h a nurnbe1~ of housekE•E!p:i.ng amendmen t.s. ThE!

Bill, as r said, includ,=!s sull'le housekeeping injt:i.atives Lhal we h a v E· l: o d e a l tAd L h , a n d , g ,=! n e r· ,;d. l y speaking, thesE' amcndnwnL.s con1e about, Mr. ~3peakel~, <is a rE•sulL oF smdll pr·ob1ems that haVE! bec:•n encountered by municipalities u.J~d.J.E• tr·yj ng l:.o dec-11 tAr:i l.h L.ot.un Ol" No. r.:,(j ro<J96

cormnunity nE•E!dS. In some cases, the housekeeping a111endments come about: as the result of resolutions that haue bi':!E!n put .fortAJat"d by the Federation of Muni cipaJ.i .U .es ouer thE! years. One of the amendments to the act which has a litt:J.E! bit of significance, especially for the Labrador· portion of t:he Province. would be Clause 5 of the Bill which will now permit a council to us'~ the credit union for banking purpoSE!S. A counci] IAdll now be able to use a credit union For banking pUl"POSE!S.

That is not normally a probl1:!1n 'in dt"eas tA.il'll~re banking services are readily availablE:~ to cotnmunit.ies, hot.uever, in relatively isolated areas in l:. h t'! P r o v i n c e t.u h ~:! r e a b a n k i s n o t.: available, where a bank has not bc~en established and a crr::~dil ·. union is, the right or flexibili l:y i. s n o IAJ t h e r· 1'>. f o ,,.· t. i·l 1'>. l:. o tAII1 t o a v a i l of a credit union to do its banking. i"h~:! dE!parttnenL r·an into that problem some time ago in West :)t. Mod1:!sl:e and dPcidE!d to addr'E!SS t:he problem.

As I have said, there are d number of housekeeping amendments. Some of them haVE! VE•ry little signiFicance, but that is onE! anwndrnenl: . which wiJl haVE! some significance for councils along the Labrador Coast and in isolated areas of the Pro~ince. With that. Mr. Speakc>r. I JnOVE! second reading. MR. GILBERT : Mr . Speaker . MR . SPEAKER : ThE! han. the mE!rnber ror Burgeo Bay d 1Espoir. MR. GILBERT : Thank you. Mr. Speaker. BilJ. 9, "An Act To Arnend The 1_2997 June 8, 1987 Vol XL Munic:lpaJiU .E=!S Act". as the tninis b:!r says, thc?.rl:> is no doubt that there arc:! a J.ot of housekeeping il :etns.

I have bec'n in t. o u c h wi 1:'. h t. hE' FE! de r· at i on and have gone through so1ne of· UH:!se things. and they aqt"E!E! lAd t.h the tninisl:er l:hat solnE• oF it:. :is houskE!eping. HoiAJever, a"~ I said in the last Municipal Bill lhat went through, whenever the rrd n i s l: E! r r e c o rru n 1:.> n d s a B i. 1 1 t o t. h i. s House I think it should be discussed because we have heard the minister say some Ud.ngs that have not a1tAii::tys pann1:!d oul· . in the tAJay he sa:i .d them.

In Se(>l.E!lTiber· or· 1ast year IAJE~ hc~ar·d him t.alk to l.he Federation of Mayors and Municipalities and he set up a coJTJrnit.Lee to rE!COITlrTIE!nc\ mun:lc:ipal funding For t.his year. NotAl, as you knotAJ, th:is coinrnit.LE!f' w<~~= se l up bul :. appar·enl:ly i.Ls recommendations were never Followed. T ask Lh e rninisl.Hr if he will table in the House lhe recotnrnendations oF t.h Ls cotlttn.il.

Le1:! that tAJas set ur by pE•op1E! in h::ts dE•partrn~'nt, Lhe DEq:>arttnent ol Tr·ansport:aion and, I be]iE·VE!, the Deparl:rnenl: of Environment:, Lind ll'l(! l i s l. h e t o o k u p t o C a b :i n E! i.. • because fr •otn t.uhat · l ca.n undE!rstand, when that Jist IAJE·nt up to Cabinet they thrPW ~wa~ Lhe list and il was handJed by Cabinel tne E! tin g s 1:. he 1 as t l wo d d y s l.\·1 10· House was open. berore Easter. rhe rninisLer scurr·'i1:•d at.uay lAJhen t:he House cJosed and pE•op]E· j_n l·.he Department of Municipal Affairs. the officia]s l:hE :r'e, djd not knntAJ lAJha t t.hE' r't"COlrtlnenda l: iCJrlS lAII~i"C!, they only h~ard the various rnernb•:-rs opposi h=! go:Lng out and announcing goodies in their di.str·ict.s.

IF Lhe lllin ·Lsl .c>r • c\ i_d not b]atanlly ignore Lhose r'(?.COirtJTIC"ndat.:.i.ons, LhlC.ll ](•t us se1:• l:.he ljst . that was rnade by this cornm:i.Ll':.E!(?. Lhal: 1~1as sel·:- ·t.tp Lo establish rnunicipaJ. funding, No. 1)6 R2997

grants and guar·anteE!d loans. Let us see h:i1n table in l:hE! House Lhr?. rE!CommE!nclations of this cormn:it:tE•e which Lllas sPt up to give us a priori~y list. This would give us a lot 1nor.e faith :in anything t.hat. his department put Forward. If this list was made available, we would then have some idea that yc?.s, maybe hcC! is try:ing to do a good job and take the political p o r· k b a r-r e 1. i n g o u t o f i t: . W h e n lhE! J.is l IAJas pubJ.:i.shE!d this YE!ar', I took it upon mysEd.f' to have a per capita breakdown, or a per person breakdown done per dist·rict.

I arn surE! the minister is awar·e of this, as I poinl:t:•cl i.l: o u t to hi Ill before , but i t wo r k s out !:hat in E!ach Lib,?.ral distr·ict only $20. 10 per capita was neE•ded for municipal Funding. bu l: .in l':'ach Tory distr·ict it av~~ragE!d ouL t.o $70.60. So, l:.o rne, !:his S!:>E!Ins t·:o be a good reason why the undertaking l:hE! minis l:E:'Y' had given to the Federation of Mayors and Mun .ic.ipalities should hav1;! ber?.n carried out, and I think their recoJrunendations should have bE•c:-n made publjc and tabled in the House of Assembly . I !:ell t.hr:~ 1ninist:er Lhal-. I;,JE! have~ on t:hE!

Or·dE!r Paper in Uds HouSE! r· i. 9 h t.: no IAI a r· e c o ITII rH>. n cl a l~ i o n t: h a t.: couJ.d solve his probJ.erns as Lo Uw d·i.slr·ibut.ion ol=- 111un:i.c:ipal funding. 1 have taJ.kecl about: this L o L he Feder at i. on an cJ l. h c> y a g r· e E! in principle that: the r·ec ollllnE!ndat. ion ·is good.

I recommend tl~. and I IAJi]] just read a couple of the 1 WI1EIH~A~:'!E:S 1 for t.he rnj.nj s ter. 11 WfiEREA~) orw of t.he ·major· reCOIJ'IJn('ndations or l~he FE!d(:!ral·:i.on of MunidpaJ.iU .es 1 bd .E·f to this governrn1:•nt in 1.986 was a call for J.ongE!r Ler111 cap:i.taJ. devE'loprnenl. co111mitrnent:s to municipalil::ies; and 1_::?998 JunE• 8, 198'7 Vol. XI .. 11

WHEREAS COifllnUni tiPS haVE! IJJat.er·. that arE! r·epair; and therE' are many in l:h.is Province that: sewer and road systems old and in nr:!ed oF 11 WHEf~EAS - !:.herE• are many communities in 't:his Province that do not have yet proper wa le r, se!JJer and road syst:erns; and 11 WI-IEI~EAS t:.hE!re ar(! COilllfiUn:il·:LI '!S 'in this Province that have, in the past:, been forcr:•d Lo :lnsi.atl E!XpE!nsive sE•!JJer sy:. l.erns thr.d:. L.h<d r· tax bnse cannot: now support, and these corr11nunit:i .es ar(;! constantly seekoing I?.Xl:ra ass-Lst:ance from l".hr? Department of Municjpal Affairs; and 11

WHEREAS Lhe dis l:r:lbu !~ . .ion oF Fund~. by the Department of Munjcipa] Affairs is largely based on a polit:icaJ. r·ather than a pr·acl:ica] or ner::,d basis; and 11 WHERI:As LherE! is no rnechani. s1n l:o Pnsure that t.here J.s fair play ~.i.n Lhe distribution oF money rr'orn l.he Department of Municipal Arfairs ; "fi-IEREFORE BE. 11 I~E~=)QLVED t.hat . liH· govPrnlnr:>.nt·. inst :.:i.Lut.f• a Ftvr0 y P<: ~r mun:ic:i.paJ. capit.l'll fund:i.ng p]an so that Lhe municipalities of Newfoundland and Labrador who t 1·1 E! 1 n s r? 1 v t:• s m u s L s u b 1 n-i 1. l: o L h ·1 s government. a rtvE·- ··YE!C:l.l" pian, IAJ:i lJ receive direction about Lheir capita] funding requests and be abl1:>. . to plan efFecl:i.vPly and rca]istjcally; and "BE IT FURTfiER RESOl.VLD Lhat l:he gove1nnment: creaLt:• a 1nun:l. c·ipal FundJ.ng corpor·at ·.ion t·.o over··see the· funding of rnunic.ipa1 c<.~p·i l al tAJor ·ks according t:.o objE•cUVE!

Cl":i.tE!r'ja esl:ab1J.s~wcl by t.hi .s House and, pencl'.ing t.hE' for1nat.:ion of such a board, that governmE·nl: abandon obtaining block funding in Lhe No. 1 ~6 1~2998

HOUSE! of Assembly for municipal i u,~s and instead obtain approva1 from tho HousE• of a specific list of rnunicipal projE!Cts. 11 Now, tha l: would soJ.vE• the problems, Mr. Speaker, of Funding for municjpal areas in N'':!t..ufoundl.and and it t..uoulcl get the minister off the hook for the pro~n:i.s':> he 1nade last YE!ar t·:o have a committ.eE! of civil SE!rvants SE!t up to give him a list which he does not intend to listen to. Now, that, l:o me, i..s a serious situation and I t.h:lnk it is one t:hal: thf• rninisl·:er should takE! under consideration.

I strongiy r~~comrnE!Ild Lhat our r'(o•so1ution be adopted by this House and it would solve a lot of the proble1ns. We hurl allegations at the minister For po1iticaj pork bar-r-elling and things like that, but if hE! t.ook our r',O!COIIII'n,?.nda t-. ion and rE!Solut.ion 1..uhich tJ.1as tablE!d I am sure it tAIOuld solv<'! problem of distribution 1nunicipa1 Funding. our· herE!, thi . s of ~Jot..u, t 1'1(' 1A'=! is a no l:he r p1no b lc~rn l:ha l: I tJ.Jould l:i.ke t:o rE!fE!r the m:ini .st.er to.

Because of their l:ax base, many rural commun:i ties are indeed "in jeopardy ri(,:Jht notAl, and lAiil:h lhe cu ·tbacks that the govE!rnrnent: has illlpos,;:,d and tAJith !:hE! fr,:•eze that the government. has put on municipal Funding for the rH:?.Xt FetAl years, t.hetne is one arE!a which I l:hi.nk should be .includC?d in this bill and H . should be thE! t:axat:.Lon of CI"OtA.In corpora I: :ions. Example: Terra Nova Te1 vE·r·sus the ~JC:!Wfoundland Telephone Company.

I t:hink a FederaJ policy currently e x "L s t s lAJ h e r 1:! b y a C r Cli.U n c o r' p o r a L i o n ha~; Lo pay municipal l:.axes ~if a private company operating under thE· salliE! circums lance~; ancl prov-i,(hng l:h10! sa1ne sc~rvic,?.s shou1d bE! required to pay t:axes.

I l:.hink L2999 June 8, 1987 Vol XL this is an E•stabl:i.shed feder·al pol:i.cy, and, :in the case of fE!r-ra Nova Tel, WE! haVE! a 1 ot oF rural collllfluni.l:ies in NewFound1and bt::dng SE!ruiCE!d by -rer•tna Nova · TE•] and UH:'Y do not have l:o pay tax,::>s, yet New 'foundlan.d TE·] E!phone has to pay taxes if they operate in those ar'E!as.

I would bE• much happ:.i.E!r· t:o v o l: E! for t. his b i 11 iF l: hi. s tAla s one of the recommendations bejng put into t:his b:ill al: l:h:Ls t.i1ne. r dtn sur·e thE! rn:i .rd.st.E!r tJ.J:ilJ agr·N· l:h.at rural areas have a r':!a'lly soriot.ts problem in collecting the t:axes which are needed lo provide SE·r·vices. BecausE• thE• rrd .nis l:E!r' has put- a Frer:~ze on Fund i.ng fro111 h:ls deparUTJE!nt, it rnean~~ a cut 'in Lhe a1nount oF Funding l:hal: . nn"al areas are able to come up with.

There has not been a sludy of tnun:icipal goverrurl!?.nl: and municipal funding done :i.n NotJ.JioundJ.and sj r1CE! 1971, and since Lhat: ~i.me Lhere has be(:•n sorr1e ral: .hE·r dr'alnaL-ic changes 'in l:he 1Tiunic:ipa1sel·:. up in NetJ.~oundland. For thjs reason, th(! F':~clerat.ion, I lAJouhl :;ay, have recomrnendod lhat: t:here be a co1111rt:i.ssion St?.t up. 1 knotAJ .l..:ctsL. year in th(;!

Es U rna l E!S Comrn:i L tee• 1 ri?.COinlnendecl to Lht• llti.nisL,:•r l:hal: . a royal commission be sel up to s t:udy 1nunic-Lpa1 Funding and M u n .i c i p a 1 Go v E> 1A n 111 E! n L j n NewFoundland, financing in particular. The min:isler slands in Lhis House ev1:•ry y(=•ar cind :>dys .that $200 rnjJl:ion Ol" $2~>0 m:iJ !~ion is nE•,:•dc:~cl l:o pul Ln l~he inlrastruct:ure for mun:ic:ipaJ Funding, y,::!l: hE:> has notJ.J Frnz (·n th:i .s a~r~ounl at $2S m:i-Jhon lor· Lhe next three years.

So I tJ.Jou1cJ r·c:.•collllllt. ;nd l:hi:<l: Lher·c::· be a s t u d y o f t: h c c o rn p 1 e t C:! lfll.l n j c :i. p a 1 gouernrnenl:. sel:.up in Nt::•ttJFoundli: 'lnd as to arn<: ·dgalnal:i.on~;, funclinc,J, ''! l:. c . As hr.~ :i s no cJ o u b t. at.~..Ja r· '" , the Federa] Foderal::ion of Mayors and No. ~.)6 V999

Municipalities have made recommendations to the federal goVE!rnment as l:o how somE:' Fundings shou1d be obt:ain1:!d to prov:ide the infrastructure that is needed to enab1e the cities and towns of Canada to do the needed rE!pairs to l:h1:!ir inFrastructurE! to bring tht:>rn into thE! TWE!ntieth Cenl:ury. So I would seriously ask th~:.> minisb?.r if he would consider looking at the establishment of a royal commission to study municipal government in Newfoundland. Mr.

Speaker, as I have already acknowlE!dged, I haVE! taJ.ked to ·the Federation of · Mayors and Municipalities and they tell me, yes, inde1?.d a 1ot of !:his bill, bill 9, :Ls housekeeping. A 1ot of reco1nmendations have l::ll:;!i:'n put Forward by t:hat group, and H: is good to see !:.hat: they did include thE! crE•dit unions in the SE!ct:ion dealing with finances so that srnaJ.ler areas are abJ.e to use thE! services of this Facility. rhe next one is short- t1:•rm bor 'rowi.ng.

They haVE! madE• cert.ain changes in that which are not Loa earth-shattering, but I think it points out the serious problems that rnany areas have j.n t.lris Province in that they have to bor1now to operatE!. t.o keE!p go:l ng.

And unless the minister and his d E! p a r t rn E! n t a r E· a b J E! t_ o c orne F o r' U r ulith so1ne ideas to lnec OI Jlllli o!l'ld IJ..Jhat: in actual fact the direction is that his department is going to take over Lhe next Few years, U11~ r e is go i rig to be a ·1 o t_ rno r' ''! borrowing than even the minister -Ls now t'\lAiclr'e oF' arld UH:!re arE· going to bE! a lot of toums whi.ch d.l~E! going l:o find the1ns,~ltJ1::•s in the sarne posi tj on that t:hf'! PremiE•r' 1nentioned, and thE!

Minisb:•r ol F:i.nance mentioned in his budgE:•l, 'tAle are going l:o go bankrupt unless we can get some fund ing 1.10 00 JunE! 8. 198'7 Vol XL from Ott.awa .. ' So, unJ.ess the rninisl:er can provide so1ne :ideas, he is certainly going to Find himse1f in thal·: posil:.:ion, Lhat l::h1:! t:oums IA.J:i.J.J becomf:' an E!lnbar-r-ass1nent: to Lhe Province as the Province expects to become an embarrassment t:o thE:~ feder'a1 goVE!rnrnE !I'l t. ~3o. I guess thjs is mayb~ the policy that is p u l: f o rtAJa r cl by L hE! various departments when they taJk about Funding in NewFoundland at this l:i.ITIE!.

Now, the final cl.auses i.n l:.he ac L are concerning local service districts. I nob .CE ! t:hat in this act the local service districts ar'e gi .VE!n mol"E' pouiE'r, bul lhE!Y 'e j.s no provision 1nade For ' more funding. As I am sLH'E• the lf1inistE•r is aware, Lhe J.ocal s e r' vi c e dis t: r' i c t: s in N e u1f o u n d] an cJ are 1io1J..J sor1~ly prE•s Slc!d. a·; ·is every municipaJ. area in Newfoundland. The 1oca1 service districts who have VE·r·y ]jt:tJe po1.ver to h'lx are now given 1n01 "e authority over the impounding of animals in thesr:~ areas.

I lAJould strongly suggest to the minist er t:hat some provision b1:! 1nadE! l·:.o pr·ovide rnor'E! funding Lo L.he J.oca] service districts in Newfoundland . [n conclusion, Mr. Sp1:!aker', as [ h a v E! s a i cJ , t. h e b j J. l :.i s ct housekeep-Lng one. It. clo"·s L.i .dy up L:he act, but WE! do nol:. l:.h:ink :i.l. goes Far enough. We think our resolutjon, IJ..lhich uJOuld take lhe bugb1:•<H'S out of municipal Fundin·g, shou]d be adopted; IAJE· l'.h:i.nk L.her ·e s h o u 1 d b c:· a I~ o y a l C u 111111 i s ~~ -L o n :. I'!

L u p ; IJ..J E· t. h i n k p r' o v i. s i o n s h o u 1 d b E:· 1nade l·:o allow r'Ur'al arei'ls Lo t.ax Te1nr'a Nova TE!} t:.·he salliE:! IJ..JC:iY t·.h<:'1 l:. Newfoundland Telephone is taxed. As Lhis is nouJ a fE•dE:•r'al poJ:.i cy, l FIC'I"!l i:hat: l:he lllini.sl:Pr could vury easi1y irnplernent. t:hjs and :it. IAIOU]d rP]ieve some oF l:he burdr·n or pr'oviding Funds to opera{e Lhe No. ')6 R3000

smaller towns in Newfoundland . Thank you, Mr. Speaker. SOME HON. MEMBERS: ~ . ----- Hear. hc?.ar! MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Menihek . MR . FENWICK: Mr . Speaker, just three comments on the bill, since it has llA.Jent.y--onE! SE:'ctions in it and twenty -one d.iFferE!nt amendments or repairs, so to speak, to thE! Municipalities Act. The Fi.rst one is about: l:.h~C~ cr·c:!dit unions, Mt". Speaker: I think :i.t is quite an interesting observation that the 1nunicipali l:.ies havc?.; up to this time, not beE·n able to use credj_t unions fOI" lhc?.:ir· banking purposes.

I wouJd suggest that that was a considerable discriminatory situation to be rdlotAJc?.d t:o (;xis t For l.hJs perJud of ttrne. As a matt.E!r oF fact ., if tAJe tAJc:>.re serious about supporting Lhe rural parts of our Province and the institul:.ions tAJIYich ser·vc?. it best, perhaps !Aihat. IA.Ie ~.hould do is ask For l:.he municipalil:ir;s l:o use credit unions First and cornrnc:·rcial banks only tAJht:•n crc:odil:. unjons are not available in a dis l:rict. I guess tAlE! should l:ha.nk thE!

Bank of Montreal for puJling out of the ~3outh Coast oF Labrador, thus making it ne cessary for the people oF that iH'c 0a Lo_ SC:!L up their OIA.Jn cr'E!di t unj .on, and, t.her'E•for'E!, onJ.y having credit unions on t.hat coast., they were in a position where they had to use those in order to do their banking business. Mr· . oF Speaker, I Municipal think UlE:! M:i nj ,s lE!t~ Affa i1~ s tAiould be l.300 l.

JunE! 8. l 987 Vo:t Xl. well-advised to perhap s look al thai: for his nc:-xL omnibus arnendmenL to thE' Muntcipal:i.t..:.LE~s Act, and instc?.ad of saying l~hat a bank can incJ.udE! a credit un:i.on, what he should say is that municipalities should use credit unions, and only tAJhen l:hey ar·e no l~ lE!gi lima te ly av ai l.ablE! s houJ.d t hE•y use the colnrnet"cial banks. Other corrnrwnts : Mr·. Speaker·, in Clausc:~ '7 Lhis a11lE!nd111enl ·. tAJou l.d E•XE~I'rtpt real proper l:.y OIAJnE!d by U·w local School Tax Authority from mun:LcipaJ propE~rLy lax .

I th:i nk l~his is an in teres U .ng chanr:~ c:· l:.o see here and :i.t also, I think , brings to Lhe surface Lhe simmering dispute between Lh e School Tax Aut hori l:ies dnd lhc: ~ rnunicipalit.iE·s . PE·rhaps I shou]d rephr ·asc::~ that, tl'lc? di spul:e betw cc: •n thE· rnun:i .cipal:i t:i.E!S and lhe ~)choo1 Tax Authoriti~ s or bet.woen the SchooJ. Tax AuLhor:it.:i.e~ ; ar1d U1 E:· govpr ·nrn c:.•nl :., in lhe sen s e~ ihal~ Lh E! rn u rd. c:i p a 1 i t j e s a r e u e r y u p s E~ l t h a t they are in a position whe reby their tax base, their real pr·opE~r'ty Lax is shi:~r·c:·d tAJil _h thc:!

S c h o o 1 T a x A u L h o r· j_ t. y i n a ] J a r· E! a ~; oF Lhe Prou·i.n ce . ri-d s ha s bee n a source of concern by • I k n oto~l, th E! lar·ger· cil :ies -i.n l:.he Province. It . a]so ha s bE!E•n a sour·cE· of concer ·n by Lhe Federati on of Mayors an d MunicipaJ.itiE!S who· SE'C' th a t: t.h .is abili .t:y of Lhc.:! Schoo l rax A u t h o r i t. i e s t. o tap t he s a 111 c· j n c o 1r1r:· s o u r c e s a s t h c:' y h a v e p u l:. s Uw 1 n i n a djfficu1t posi .Lion sjnu• jL rnai<t'S .it vc?.ry di. ffi cul l. r~ o r Lh cc!lll to ra ise the rev enuE' th ey sh ou]d .

One of rna k e l:o Af"Fair ·s : t:hE• suggE•sl:jon s l..hE! · M:in:i s l.(•r of - I L\JOU]d Munic ipal pr·ou :i ncj a] gou ernln E!nt aboJ.:i .sh Au l:hori U.c:;s. clup1icaU .on use Lo ndse No. f:>6 If thE! lS not . inl. .E'ndi nq lo th e ~)ch ool Tax lAihLch c;il"c• a of l .. he proc edttt'··es lAIC::· revenue, if they ar e 1\3001

not intending to do that, then perhaps the appropriate thing wouJ.d be to borrou.J a J.eaf out of the book of other provinces and eliminate the School Tax Authorities and allow the munid.pal1ties thE!I'flseJ.vE!S to rajse the revenUt"!, and, l:herefore, individuaJ.s would only get one tax b·i 11 which rnay be brokc~n down as municipal serv ices and school services. Mr . Spt:'!aker, in l:he areas :in which we do not have incorporated 1nunic :ipaliti1:'!S, pt?.rhaps just one SchooJ. Tax Authority could remain tn existence in order to cover those particular areas .

So, I would suggest to the Mi .nistE•r of Municipal AfFairs that 'l:h.is rnay be an appropr·i.ate change to make when he brings in his bill to amend the Municipalities Act for 1988, or whenever the next SE!SSion will be. rht'! third cornrnE!nt, and l:he last onE! I would likE! to rnake, is with r·eferl?.nCI:O to Clause 14. This amendment providE!S that a person lfl u s l: r 1:! s :i d e i n a c o 1111 n u n i t y F o r a l: J.east six months to bE! e1ig~Lb1E· to 1A u n F o r c o u n c i. l . A l·: p r e s e n l: , l: h e rE!S].dency r·equirernE!nl is th:irty days.

I would suggest t:o Lhr:! rnjnister that although I can SE!e Lhe argument For the particular change, if I rE·call cor-rE•ct:Jy, the Yukon, .in one of its previous provindal E•]E•ct]ons, had a vE•ry difFicult: t.irne 1:!nForcing a thirty-day residency provision to vol:c~ .in the Yukon as a t:erri.tory. Pe1~haps l:.hi s provision may, in turn, also bE! look,:•d .on as an unconstitutionaJ. taking away of an individual's r:igh t l~o r·un For counc]l and perhaps we should have a look at that again .

AFI :t?.r all, a] 1 our · counci.l elections, or v i r' t u a 11 y a ll oF U1 C:! 1n, are he l d a t l.3002 JUil-E! 8, 1987 Vol XI .. the sarne timE!, in a fou1A yE•ar· or ·five yt::.ar cycl1:'!, and l:he only on1:!S that are the exception are the community councils, which are a different circurnslance, and perhaps it is not necessary to have a six -rnonth el:i.gi.b] .l:i.l :.y For· i l:.

I suggest that to the minister, bE!cause i.f lherE! was an indiv].duc~] who wi .shed to run t•.Jho \A.Jas liv :i.ng .in a community fo1~, say, four' 01~ F.ive 1nonths, l':l'lt:•y 111ay :is~.ue a court challE!ngE! and we might haVE! some messy court proceedings to deal ~ith in a situation that, quit1::. frankly, do1?.S not des1::.rvP l:o have that. mu ch attenU .on paid to it . I just l'nt?.nt:i..on l:hat l:o l:ht?. minister. Other l:han that, ·ha.v Lnq looked at the other amendments, there is no l: h 'in g e 1 s e t: h 1:! r E! t h a L ~,~ e 1:• 111 s t : o bC:~ part].cuJ.arJ.y contE•nt.~ious.

I should rern:ind hl1n thal~ U·ler'e dr1:>. two I would strongly suggest_ he look at: l:hal: l:h1?. credil: union is g i v e n prE! FE! 1~ E! n c E· r·a L hE' r L han corrnnercial banks For rnun :icipal:i.ti.es and, sE•condJ.y, that. he look at the suggestion oF using the 1n u n :i c :l p a 1 ]. l. ~i.E's u.J he 1A ("' t. h ('' y exist_ to collect lhe assessment that the School Tax Authorities LAJo u l d or din a r i.l y co 11,,:. ': 1- so l: hal : wE' c o u 1 d c u t. d own s o 1 n ('! o I l h E! overhead which I think at 1ast going around cos t. us, jf I a1r1 no l. Ju:istakt:-n, something like $3 .5 rniJ \]on .

I Udnk lhdt :.is u.Jhat .. l:h E· M'inisl':t'r of Educaf :'i on sa oi.d. ·u_- tJJc:· cou1d cut L.hat: f~lllount. dOJAJn c o n s i d C:! r a b l y IAll:! c o u 1 d , p "' I" h d p s , cut. it ~i.n ha]F, and $1.7:) rnLll:ion b1:! given to Lhe 1nunicipal ·i.l: ic•s l':O· do the coJlE!ct.]on on behalr ol l.hE! s c h o o l b o a r d s , a n d l. h e o L h tc' r h a ll~ be an absolute saving ror · individuals concerned. Wt l~h those COIIliTlenl~s, Mr· .. ~3P' '!dkE!I", No. ~i6 R3002

[ v.rill resume rny seat . MR. SPFAKER: The hon. the Minister of Municipal Affairs . MR. DOYLE : Mr·. SpE!aker, I take plE!asur'E! j.n moving second rr':!ading of l:he bi1J., and in doing so to rE•spond to cl couple oF l:he comments that l:hr?. hon. gE!ntJ.E!Illan For Burgee - Bay d 1 Espoir has 1nadE! today, d.nd continued to make ouer the last couple of months, t.~.rith respect to the allotment of capital funding by the DepartmPnl: of Municipa1 Affairs. Mr.

SpeakE!r', he keE!pS referring to a priority list and if he can haue acCE!SS to thE! priority list that the Capital Projects Beard had forward for consideration. As I <?.Xplainr:~d to him on a couplr:! of diffE!rent occasions, what thE! hon. gentleman is asking For, of course, is a CabinE!t. paper which he cannot haur?. accPss to. It: is suffidE!nt. to say that thE• Cap:ital Projects Board dealt v.rit:h no!·: only a priority of $2~ milljon which t1.1as approu<?.d this ye<:~r. but. dealt as weJJ. v.dth qujte possibJy $100 111illion in prioriti<?.S.

Unfortunate1y lJJe d.id nol haue thE! funding to address all of these nE!E!dS. [1:. -Ls suFf.i.ci(~nl:. l:o say, Mr. SpE!akel~, that thE! dE!par·trnent, eUE!r s i.nce 1979, ha.s had an incrt::'ase in grants and capita} that has beE·n 1nade auailablr:~ to thr:• murdc:i .palib .E!S, up to 176 pE!r cc>nt. I th"Lnk l:hat spi:'aks uery weJl for the government's conltnitmonl: l:o mun 'i.cipalit.it:~s in Lhe Prou·ince. Mr.

Sp<~al<er, the hon. genLlPman can 1nake a]'J the r·c!Fc>rt:•nce he tJ.JanLs l:o pork barTeJ.J.ing and IAJhat: havE• you, but I Lhink we haue shown ouer the 1.3003 June 8, 198'/ VoJ XL las L couple of 1110 nth s L hal: there is no pork barrelling gojng on.

One must consider the fact that therE! are, as I haue repeclted before in this House, 112 municipalities in districls represenl:1:!d by Opposi.l:ion tnentber·s and a full sixty-two of those haue water or water and sewer servicing completed, leaving on]y 50 municipalities in districts represented by gentlemen opposite lAJil:hout so1ne start on Lhe lAJab~r and sewer service. On the point Lhat the han. g·entlE•IJtan br ·ings forwa1nd on taxation of Federa1 Crown cor·porations, WE! cannoi:, as l.:hr~· hon. mernbE!r is av.JarE•, undE!Y' rny departm<:.•nt l:.ax f,~d<:·r-al CtnotAJn corporations .

I understand f'r ·otn l: he Mints t e r of Finance 1: h a L 1: her· 1?. are reciprocal arrangements being llld.de bel:lAJeen !:he Minoisllc'r' or-­ FinancE• and the fE'dE•t'aJ. ~1ouer·n1nenL in which t..U<?. v.Ji.ll be able to r.3cd~ i n u o J. u e d j n r· e c i p r o c a J l .. a x a t. j o n which wi11 prove l::o b1c! a nc~t ben(:!fit to the ProujncE!. M1~. Speaker, v.rith l:hos1:' couple or:· points I moue second readjng of the bi11. On rnot:ion, a bi11, ''()n Act l'o (-) mE! n d T h E!

M u n i c i p a 1 j Li e s (-) c l. , r E• a cl a s <:! c o n d l: . .i rn e , o ,~ d (' r· c~ d r· <:! r: c• 1··· r· 1':' d l:. o a c 0 rmrd t L E! E' 0 r t h (! w h (J J. E! H 0 u s E' ' pr<:!senl:ly, by leave." (eill No. 9) . 0 n rno t .i. on , l: h a 1: I~ he H o us~'' : res o l u E! i t S E• J. f j n l 0 C 0 lrll rd L l. E' E! 0 f. l h E! W h 0 1 (! on sa i. d b i 1 l s , M r . ~3 p oak <:' r l e r-1: t.he Cha:i.r. Committee of the Whole MR. CHAIRMAN (Mitche1U : Order·, pJ.ease! No. ~i6 R3003

A bill, "An Act.- To Of AssernbJ.y Act". Amend The House (Bill No. 24-). Motion, that thE• CorrmrH.tE'E! report having pasSE!d the bill lArithout arnE!ndmE!nL, carriE!d. A bill, "An Act To Amend The Department: OF Development And Tourism Act". (Bi11 No. 4). Motion, that t.he Conmd .tLE!E! repor·t ha(Jing pass,"!d the bi11 lAlithout amendment, carried. A biJ.J . , "An Act To Rehabilitation Act". 1 s) ' AITlE! nd ( Lhl1 ThE! No. Mo U .on, that the Cornmi t l:E!E! report having passed l:hE! b.i.ll without amendment, carried. A bilL "An Act.

Respecting The Return Of The Business OF Fishe1ny Products International Limited To Privati:! Inv,:~stors". (BLll No. 3 1~). On motion, c1aus(:.>s 1 and 2' carried. MR. CHAIRMAN : Shall clause 3 carry? MR. FENWICK: Mr' . Chairman . MR . CHAIRMAN : Order, please! The han. the 1-nrc~rnb,:!r for Mc:~nihek . MR. FENWICK: Mr. Chatrman, speak t:o this Respecting The Business Of Internat:iona1 I lAJOUJ.d bill, Return Fishery To II like to

An Act Of The Products Private Inv,:!stors 11 , lAJh.ich "is, of course, a piece of legislation about lAlhjch IAJE! on l:. his s .i d 1:! o I t: he H o 1.1 s e , a t the time it went through second reading, indical':.ed lAIC::~ f,=!lL it lAJas l.3004 - J u n E! 8 , J 9 8 ·; Vo1 XL. a black day for the Province, and we s t i 11 f E' e 1 it j, s a b 1 a c k day For the Province. It 'i.s l~he kind of legisJ.ation, Mr.

SpE!akE!r·, thal:. wi 1.1 be:.~ loolu•d back on, pr-obably ten or fifteen years frorn nolAJ, as a turning point in Lhe history nol: only of l:his goVE!rnmE•nl: bul of lhe Province, as well, since Lhe lE!gisJ.ation itself takes t.h<'! rnajo1n fishing co1npany, lJJhich is also l:.he biggest company jn lhe biggesL indusl:ry that we have, and l:t.JI"ns it over to pr·ivatE! j_nves t.or·s, Mr·. Speaker', turns .it over· l:o pl~ival:.e i.nVE!Stors lAJho, fo1~ the rnosL pat'l., arE! investors lAJho l:iv1'! .in Canada·, J.i.vE· in EuropE!, and a Sllla1J proportion lAJho 1.iV1c! .i.n l:hi.s Province itseJ.f.

On that basjs, Mr. ~3p,:!aker, it :is, [ think, a bclCklAJard djr·ectjon, g~L VE!n the lcind of directions Lhat.. bot:h IAJ(c! as a party wouJ.d J.i.kE• to see, Lhat Dr·. House and his "oyal Collllnissi.on on EmployrnE!nl and Une1npJ oyn1E·n L lAJou] d also l.ikr::~ l:o SC:!e, sinCE! the honourable Doctor has aJso :indicated to us, and r think to thE! HOUSE! and aJJ ITIE'mbE'I''S of l..hE• public, l:hat thE! pr·ival:.izal·:iun oF F P I i s n o t. t h E· I< i n d of 1 F! g i s 1 a t. j , o n t: h a l: s h o u 1 d be b r o u g h l: L 1·1 l: o L h L s House at this tirne. Mr·.

Chairman, I think :U. -i.s i 1 n p o r t a n t F o r u s l: o s p C:! n d s u 11'1 e ttme debating the philosophy of Jt and thE! contE!nLs oF i.l: and Lhe 1.~1ay i. n w h j _ c h :Lt. i. s b E! j . n g p u L :i n p l a c e dnd, quit.e frankly, U1E• fol'ly of saying on Lhe onE· hand w:i l h Dr·. House a.ncl t.h1:=! l~oyal C01111n:i.ssiun l.hat lAJE' IAJant. Lo have IIIOI"e contr-·ol oF our econo11ric dc:!st::iny, we lAJanl: l.o have an :.indusl:ry t.hat lJJe have surne ab.i.1ity to direct and we have some abJJity ' to conl:roJ.

Indeed, if one l:is'l:l=!ns t:o l:.he Pr'l':!i'll·.ir•l" of this Province one also hears SOIIlelJJhat: Lhe Sd.IIIE' thing. lf T rE!cal1 corrE·cL1y, last·. week, l!.Jhen Lhe Pre1wier carne back f1"om OLl:.dlAJa, No. S6 R300'1

he, at t.hat: time, indicat:l:!d to us that the Accord would haVE! a series of First Ministers 1 Conferences and at these conferences the subject of the rolE•s and responsibiJ.iU es in thE! fishery would be on the agenda, and, Mr. Chairman, we hear from the Premier that this is a significant accomplishment for us as a Province, l:ha t Luc:• arc~ talking about the roles and responsibi.lit.ies with regard to the fishery, and that as a resu1t t.ue may, in the fu t.ure, have more controJ.

OVE!r thE! fish stocks, thE! season in which fish can be caught and cannot be caught, the allocation for insho~e fishery versus offshore fishery, and so on. In ot~hc·r wor·ds, Mr. Chairman, what we are hearing from the Premier is that t.ue are in a sit: .uat'ion whereby WE! wi J.J. have, hopefuJ.J.y. additional control over our fishing industry.

That is why I think it is more than passing strange, to use an expression I ht:WI':' hc?.ar·d in this Ho11sc:! before. that we are al this time in Cornrnit:tec?. on a piecc:! of lE!gislaUon that takes the lar·gest fish company, which catc1es over half thE! fish caught i.n tlris Province and lands it and prOCE'SSE!S j,t, and t.Ue iH'E! turntng it over to private individuals, primarily private individuals who tAri.ll not only cn.un it_ from a Canadian point of view but also by E u r o p C:! an s and so on .

So the ·r· e is a major inconsistency here when Uie Pr·etnier of our Province:• on the onE! hand says that. he wishes us lo have greater control of this industry and then on lhe other hand he takes the t'najor aVC'rlUE:~ r:or control of this fishery and essentially scatt:ers ii:.s ownership L.o the far cornE!rS oF L.h::! E!cH'Lh. So, it is with a certain degree of bemusement and puzzlement in our uoos June 8, 1987 Vo 'l X I_ direction that understand why action is bE!ing being donE! . we th :i s . ta k1?.n. cannot~ par· ti cuJ ar why it~ is In addition, of course, Mr.

Chail"trtan, there~ is anot:.hel" pr·oblce•tn tAJith it., and that is that t .. hE! ownership of Fishery Products Inter-nat:i.onal tAJas not~ only Lur·nocl over to l:.hE! privat:c:• sect :.<Jr because of t:hal. fact: WE ! ar·e debating a p.iE!CC:! oF _ 1er;riall ::Lun IAJhi .ch is sanct:i .fying sornelhing t.uh.ich has already happenc: •cl ·in l.hc: • past - it has already gone primar-ily to ·individual~; t.uho ar ·1:• n o J. o n g e r r E! s i d e n 'L. j_ n l..lri . s Province.

IF the total ownE•rship WE'r 'E! aclciE-d up, and it~ tAJou]d be appt "oprid.l ~c:· Fot" the M]nistE!r of f'isher ·].E-s t.o b c?. her· e at t:. hI s time~ I~ o t:J'!l.l us how rnuch it is, but it. ·is tny underst.andinag we are talk lng maybE! l:i per· CE!nl. of L.he owner·sh:ip of Fishery Product.s lnt:er·nal :.tonal, and that 15 per cenL or· ~.o j ~; a p.itiftJ1 arnount evc?.n if one IAJI"!r'E! l.o E· n d o r s E! UiE! c o n c e p t. t h at. L h l' ownership of Fishery Products InlernationaJ should be p:ir·vatized.

CE·rta.in.ly on t~l1at front i.L shouJ.d have been privatized so that individuals norma J J y r e ::; ide n t: j n L h :i ~; f> r· o v j n c e should have b(!l:·n !he 1najor sharE!hoJ.der·s. It :i.s our information, i.n t.allcing Lo stockbrokers in Lhis Province who handled Lhe sale of FJshery Products International shares, that. pE!rhaps as much as 2~. pet' c e n t~ o r 3 0 p E! r c e n t:. o F l: h e s l'hH ' u s o f F fl 1 c o u ] d h a v e b e E:· n own E! cl :i n t h i. s P r o v i n c e s i n c e l~ h e r e tAid ~~ a demand by Newfoundlanders and Labradorians For at least that m u c h o f L h E! rn .

T h a t.: i t tAl i.'l s n o L , J t~hink, is a re!-".lc:~ct:ion oF sever·al thi.ngs, onE! of lAJhich was th,~·,t. !:he No. S6 R300S

people who were doing the privatization only allocated a c e r t a t n lind t e d elmo u n t: o f m o n E' y t: o it. Thei1n "inFormation to us, Mr. Chairman, was that there was about 30 per c1~n t or Ll-0 per CE!Il t of l:he shares sold in this Province, tAJh:ich had bE!r,~n asked for by individual investors . throughout l:he Province. When tAlE! first satAI the plan to privatize FPI, back sometime, I th ·ink, around th1:~ end of FE!bruary, there was a pr·o1nise madt• by thlc!

Premier of this ProvincE! that the shares lJ,.JOuld be availabl.e in thl':! corn1nerical banks across the Province and, ther,~folne, the Slna1l invesLor down in FortunE!, or Marystown, or up in St. Anthony would have thE· opportunity to buy into Fishery Products International and, therefore, it ~auld be our corpor·at.ion, a company l:.hat tAle, ours el VE! s, to~.Jould havE! a d E!g rE!E! of ownership of, a Feeling of responsibility for, and, in the cas~:- oF the long future, tAJhen it. rnadE! pr·ofit.s, we wou1d shc-lrE! i.n thr-..~ profits. So, Mr.

Chairman, i.t. :is very str·ange that this prorn'ise rnadE! by the Prf:~rnier·, solte!rnnly made at l:he end of February, that we would i nd "'eel go fo r·wa rd in Ul.i s manner was totally dropped once it was clr:!ar l:hat we could sell l:hHin l:.o people in Europe, selJ them to Americans and Canadians, and in ot.hE!r par·t.s of the world. ~3i.nce t!w Minister oF Fisher·ii'!S is hpre for· this dE!bat.E• on thE• cJ.ausE! by clause study of it, I think it would be appropriate for h'im lo sl:and in his p1ace and explain t.o us why that particular' pr'oviston, Lhi.s pri.vat.ization into LhE! hands of ordtnal~y NE!IAJfoundlandE·rs, whtch i.s so lovud by SocrE•ds in BriLi.sh CoJ.umbia but·. is, in Fact, a ruse in ter'ms of otAJnf:~r·ship and cont·.rol, thts plan IAJa~~ not. even fC>llot.~.Jed, 1_3006 June 8,