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October 18, 2005

38th Parliament, 2nd Session

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Hansard Transcripts

vol. A

Hansard Transcripts

vol. B

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2005-Oct-18 (PDF)

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L'ONTARIO

Tuesday 18 October 2005 Mardi 18 octobre 2005

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

EARTHQUAKE IN SOUTH ASIA

GOLDEN HORSESHOE MARATHON

JENNIFER TEAGUE

KAWARTHA CHOICE

FARMLAND FOODS

ONTARIO ASSOCIATION OF

CHIEFS OF POLICE

SUPPORT FOR

SOUTH ASIAN COMMUNITY

SCHOOL NUTRITION PROGRAMS

RESEARCH AND INNOVATION

WOMEN MOVING FORWARD INITIATIVE

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

CHILDREN'S LAW REFORM

AMENDMENT ACT, 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 MODIFIANT LA LOI

PORTANT RÉFORME DU DROIT

DE L'ENFANCE

UNIVERSITY OF ST. MICHAEL'S

COLLEGE ACT, 2005

PONTIFICAL INSTITUTE OF

MEDIAEVAL STUDIES ACT, 2005

MOTIONS

HOUSE SITTINGS

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY

AND RESPONSES

STROKE CARE SYSTEM

SMALL BUSINESS

STROKE CARE SYSTEM

SMALL BUSINESS

PERSONS DAY

ORAL QUESTIONS

PAROLE SYSTEM

WAIT TIMES

PROPERTY TAXATION

ELECTRICITY SUPPLY

GREENBELT ADVERTISING

WASTE DISPOSAL

FAMILY HEALTH TEAMS

WASTE DISPOSAL

ILLEGAL TAXI OPERATORS

RENEWABLE FUELS

ILLEGAL TAXI OPERATORS

PAROLE SYSTEM

FEDERAL-PROVINCIAL

FISCAL POLICIES

INFECTIOUS DISEASE CONTROL

NATIONAL CHILD

BENEFIT SUPPLEMENT

PETITIONS

PROPERTY TAXATION

MUNICIPAL RESTRUCTURING

CREDIT VALLEY HOSPITAL

SERVICES FOR THE

DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

MACULAR DEGENERATION

AUTISM TREATMENT

MUNICIPAL RESTRUCTURING

REGIONAL CENTRES FOR THE

DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

FALLSVIEW CASINO

MUNICIPAL RESTRUCTURING

HOSPITAL SERVICES

ORDERS OF THE DAY

THRONE SPEECH DEBATE

The House met at 1330.

Prayers.

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

EARTHQUAKE IN SOUTH ASIA

Mr. Frank Klees (Oak Ridges): I rise to remind honourable members and citizens of Ontario that we have an obligation and a moral responsibility

to ensure that the plight of the people of Pakistan, Afghanistan, India and the epicentre of the earthquake in Kashmir are not forgotten. As time passes and this tragedy slips from the front pages

of our newspapers, the urgency to provide support and aid to the relief efforts may well be lost. We cannot allow that to happen. In fact, the death toll, now at 48,000, continues to climb, the

injured number more than 60,000 and a staggering four million are homeless.

Among those demonstrating leadership in organizing relief efforts are community leaders such as Markham Councillor Khalid Usman, who, together with the

International Development and Relief Foundation, hosted a very successful fundraising event in Rexdale this past Sunday in which I had the honour to participate. John Tory, the leader of the

Ontario PC Party, attended a similar event, organized by the Islamic Foundation of Toronto, in Scarborough. And we both had the opportunity to participate in a radio appeal on the Radio 770 AM

program Sazo Awaz, hosted by Arif Muzzffer, sponsored by Mr. Shahid Hashmi and supported by community leaders like Mr. Aftab Rizvi and Dr. Shanaz Dar.

I once again call on Premier McGuinty to respond to John Tory's appeal to the government of Ontario to increase its support beyond the $1 million initially

committed and to announce a matching private donations program.

GOLDEN HORSESHOE MARATHON

Ms. Judy Marsales (Hamilton West): I rise in the House today to express my sincere respect and admiration for the six wheelchair athletes who

took

part in the 2005 Golden Horseshoe Marathon. This past September, Charlie Cetinski, Harvey Uppal, Les McLaughlin, Duc Giang, Kevin Duchane and Chuck Mealing demonstrated an enormous amount of

will, determination and athletic ability as they wheeled a total of 242 kilometres from Niagara Falls to our front door here at Queen's Park.

On day three of this incredible event, the athletes made their way to the front entrance of the McMaster University Medical Centre, where I was happy to greet

them and welcome them to Hamilton West. These athletes demonstrated an incredible amount of strength and resilience as they tested their own endurance and physical ability while raising funds that

go toward stem cell research that can benefit spinal cord injuries and other neurological diseases.

The Golden Horseshoe Marathon was conceived by Charlie Cetinski in 1999 as a fundraiser for various organizations such as McMaster University research and

innovation, the Canadian Paraplegic Association and the Hamilton resource centre.

Dr. Michael Rathbone, who was also present to meet these wonderful athletes, has been working with a team of researchers at McMaster University and is very close

to a major breakthrough in stem cell research. The proceeds from this fundraiser will encourage the continued development of McMaster's leadership in innovation and research of this major project

with global benefit.

I'd like to offer my congratulations to the participants and organizers of the Golden Horseshoe Marathon from all of us in Hamilton West and here at Queen's

Park. You are truly an inspiration to all of us.

JENNIFER TEAGUE

Mr. John R. Baird (Nepean-Carleton): Today I rise on a very serious and sombre note to pay tribute to a young woman from my riding of

Nepean-Carleton. Last month, Jennifer Teague, an 18-year-old student at Elizabeth Wyn Wood Secondary alternative program, tragically went missing from suburban south Nepean. Residents were saddened

to learn some days later that her body was found not far from her home.

Jennifer was a beautiful young woman, a talented athlete. Her life was taken in her prime; she had a very bright future. She is survived by her older brothers

Carey and Kevin and her parents Ed and Jean Teague.

Throughout this entire tragedy the Ottawa Police Service and Chief Vince Bevan have worked diligently throughout the search and now on the criminal

investigation. I'd like to publicly acknowledge their dedication and hard work.

Today the Jennifer Teague Memorial Golf Tournament is taking place to raise funds for victims of violence. I'd like to congratulate everyone who is working on

this event to make it a success.

This tragedy has also had a terrible effect on our entire community. In a sense, it's a loss of the community's innocence. A culture of fear now pervades much of

the community. Young women are afraid to walk the streets at night and parents are worried about the security of their children.

A key concern of the community is the number of uniformed police officers on the streets of south Nepean. We therefore welcome the government's announcement of

1,000 new police officers and hope they will look favourably on Ottawa's request for 90 officers -- Ottawa being the second-largest city in the province. Let's move on this community concern in an

expeditious manner.

KAWARTHA CHOICE

FARMLAND FOODS

Mr. Jeff Leal (Peterborough): Once again I have the pleasure of speaking to this House about Kawartha Choice Farmland Foods, a local

Peterborough-Kawaratha initiative that has been running now for almost two years. On Monday, September 26, 2005, in Charlottetown, Prince Edward Island, at the Canadian Chamber of Commerce annual

meeting, the Kawartha Choice Farmland Foods initiative, in competition with communities all across this great country of ours, took home the gold in the National Award for Leadership project. The

award was presented to Greater Peterborough Chamber of Commerce chair Bill Casey and general manager Stuart Harrison. Well done, guys.

As a matter of fact, two awards were presented: a gold, silver and bronze award from the judging committee and a people's choice award from the convention

delegates. Peterborough won first place in both categories.

Kawartha Choice is a local initiative designed to provide marketing and branding material and concepts to local agricultural producers and the companies that

sell their products. Marketing materials are available from local butchers, grocery stores and restaurants to help identify their products for consumers. From beef to buffalo, honey to maple syrup

or apples to sweet corn, the Kawaratha Choice logo is your assurance of the quality and integrity of locally grown products.

The Web site, kawarthachoice.com, is a main source of information and marketing material. It contains lists of producers who sell at the farm gate, at area farm

markets and at special events.

I'm delighted by the success of this local Peterborough-Kawartha agricultural initiative. The folks at the Greater Peterborough Chamber of Commerce have taken a

local idea and brought it to this great nation. This is another exciting development in the short history of the Kawartha Choice Farmland Foods initiative and is a testimony to the entrepreneurial

and imaginative spirit of the residents of Peterborough.

ONTARIO ASSOCIATION OF

CHIEFS OF POLICE

Mr. Garfield Dunlop (Simcoe North): Today I'm very pleased to welcome to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario the Ontario Association of Chiefs

of Police. The association is currently headed by Chief Armand La Barge of the York Regional Police Service. Our leader, John Tory, and myself met this morning for over an hour with Chief La Barge

and about 30 other chiefs, representing police services from a wide variety of communities across our province.

Clearly they are an organization extremely frustrated with the lack of action from the McGuinty government. As an example, today the association announced the

formation of a blue ribbon justice reform committee. They will be working together with police, government and community leaders to seek solutions to issues that hinder the efficiency and

effectiveness of our criminal justice system.

There are numerous issues facing our police leaders, including the growth in criminal areas such as gang violence, gun violence, crystal meth and other illegal

drug operations, child pornography and Internet luring, lack of police resources and of course the potential cuts of up to $300 million from the justice ministries.

On behalf of all Ontarians, I thank the OACP for their continued commitment to making Ontario a safer place to live in spite of a government that does not

consider community safety a top priority. I would like to have everybody in the House give a warm round of applause to the folks who are here, and particularly to my chief of police in the Midland

Police Service, the former president of the OACP, Paul Hamelin, and his group of friends.

SUPPORT FOR

SOUTH ASIAN COMMUNITY

Ms. Andrea Horwath (Hamilton East): This government has had lots of lofty talk about its commitment to the South Asian community, but when it

really counts, unfortunately and sadly, the McGuinty Liberals are nowhere to be found.

South Asians in Hamilton and region were victims of a devastating hate crime on September 15, 2001, which the McGuinty government still has done nothing to

rectify. In a vicious assault against community members, the Hindu Samaj Temple was set ablaze by arsonists. It was a blatant act of post-September 11 racist backlash.

The incident remains a stain on Ontario's reputation as a place where diversity is celebrated and supported. No perpetrators were caught and brought to justice.

The community was left to rebuild its temple and cultural centre from the ashes, without a shred of support from the Ontario government.

Just as they had the first time, community members reached into their own pockets to restore this important landmark, but even with a sizable bank loan, the

insurance settlement and massive donations, the need for government involvement in a cultural project has never been clearer. We should help ease the damage of the desecration and send significant

signals that racism will not be tolerated and its victims will not be abandoned.

We have an opportunity to turn a negative into a positive. Surely there is room in the government's funding envelope for helping to complete the Hindu Samaj

Temple restoration and erase a provincial and national shame. I would like to believe that just once the McGuinty government would do more than just say the words and instead show real, tangible

financial support for innocent people victimized by a massive hate crime here in Ontario.

SCHOOL NUTRITION PROGRAMS

Mr. Mario G. Racco (Thornhill): Yesterday, I had the opportunity to visit the breakfast and basketball program at a school in my Thornhill

riding. With parents going off to work, some children are not able to get adequate attention and nutrition in the morning. The breakfast and basketball program makes sure that these children are

well fed and ready for the day's challenges in the classroom. Playing basketball with a former NBA player is also a special privilege these children get to enjoy. Being active, healthy, happy and

nourished are not options for the children of Ontario; they are necessities.

The breakfast and basketball program began four years ago and has grown ever since. In the past, the program received private funding and the government provided

gift cards from major Canadian retailers. Last week they were pleased to receive the first instalment of funds from the student nutrition program. The school is one of 36 schools in York region

that will receive almost $114,000 from the McGuinty government to go toward revamping student nutrition programs. The community-based nutrition programs across the province will affect over 250,000

students and are part of our government's current investment of $8.5 million.

The Ministry of Children and Youth Services should be thanked for providing assistance to this program. Special thanks to Oksana Majaski, who volunteers so much

of her time to make this program work, and former NBA player Mitch Wiggins for the leadership and inspiration he provides to the children.

RESEARCH AND INNOVATION

Mr. Peter Fonseca (Mississauga East): Just a few weeks ago, along with the Premier and many of our caucus colleagues, I had the opportunity to

attend a celebration of research and innovation at GlaxoSmithKline's facilities in the beautiful city of Mississauga. This celebration was an event to mark GlaxoSmithKline's $23-million expansion

of its Mississauga facilities. This announcement will mean approximately 75 new jobs for the people of Mississauga and Ontario. This huge investment is great news for the city of Mississauga and my

constituents.

It's also an excellent example of the fruits of investing in research and innovation. Investments like this one will help ensure that Ontario will be at the

forefront of the innovation race, which in turn will mean more jobs and a stronger economy here in Ontario. While private sector investment in research and technology is incredibly important, our

government is also working hard to ensure that Ontario is a leader in research, development and innovation.

The first step was Premier McGuinty's creation of the new Ministry of Research and Innovation.

The second step came just last week. Our government returned to the House with a clear, focused plan for the province of Ontario. One of the key components of

that new plan is this government's goal to boost Ontario's competitive advantage by increasing investment in research and development while endeavouring to forge a culture of innovation amongst our

citizens.

Everyone knows that there are few prizes for those who finish second in the field of research. With our government's continued investment, we are giving our

people the tools they need to survive and succeed on the cutting edge, and we're paving the way for a very bright future for all Ontarians.

WOMEN MOVING FORWARD INITIATIVE

Mr. Mario Sergio (York West): It is with great satisfaction and pride that I congratulate the hard-working visionaries in my community of York

West, leaders such as Tonika Morgan, who spearheaded the Women Moving Forward project in the Jane/Finch Community and Family Centre. Just recently, the Women Moving Forward initiative received over

$1.2 million from the Trillium Foundation. These funds will go a long way in assisting the most vulnerable women in my riding with intense basic training in life skills, career planning and better

community participation over a span of five years.

Tonika Morgan says that receiving this funding means that we are steps closer to breaking the cycle for those most vulnerable women. Programs such as these are

important in helping women gain the confidence and experience necessary to confront and successfully navigate change in their lives and the lives of their families.

I also applaud the great strides that the McGuinty government continues to make for the young and vulnerable women in Ontario. Last week, the Premier and the

Minister of Education, the Honourable Gerard Kennedy, in an effort to offer more choices to our students, announced a new alternative high school diploma at Westview secondary school.

The McGuinty government believes it is so important to the wealth of our province that we continue to ensure that the promising future of vulnerable women is not

overlooked. Congratulations once again to the Jane/Finch Community and Family Centre and the Women Moving Forward project for their inspiration and their relentless hard work.

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

CHILDREN'S LAW REFORM

AMENDMENT ACT, 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 MODIFIANT LA LOI

PORTANT RÉFORME DU DROIT

DE L'ENFANCE

Mr. Craitor moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 8,

An Act to amend the Children's Law Reform Act / Projet de loi 8, Loi modifiant la Loi portant réforme du droit de l'enfance.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Does the member have a brief statement?

Mr. Kim Craitor (Niagara Falls): Yes, I do, Mr. Speaker; very brief.

Shortly after my election as the provincial member of Parliament for the riding of Niagara Falls, I was approached by a number of grandparents who asked me in

the last session of the assembly to introduce a bill designed to allow caring, concerned grandparents to have legal access to their grandchildren, where it is in the best interests of the child.

Since then, I've received over 2,000 e-mails, letters and personal contacts from loving grandparents who find themselves in this difficult situation.

I'm pleased to introduce a bill that would give recognition to the rights of grandparents, where, in the opinion of the courts, this would be in the best

interests of the child. My proposed legislation, if passed, will amend the Children's Law Reform Act to emphasize the importance of children's relationship with their grandparents.

UNIVERSITY OF ST. MICHAEL'S

COLLEGE ACT, 2005

Mr. Fonseca moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill Pr13,

An Act respecting The University of St. Michael's College.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Pursuant to standing order 84, this bill stands referred to the standing committee on regulations and private bills.

PONTIFICAL INSTITUTE OF

MEDIAEVAL STUDIES ACT, 2005

Mr. Fonseca moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill Pr21,

An Act to incorporate the Pontifical Institute of Mediaeval Studies.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Pursuant to standing order 84, this bill stands referred to the standing committee on regulations and private bills.

MOTIONS

HOUSE SITTINGS

Hon. James J. Bradley (Minister of Tourism, minister responsible for seniors, Government House Leader): I move that, pursuant to standing

order 9(c)(i), the House shall meet from 6:45 p.m. to 9:30 p.m. on Tuesday, October 18, 2005, for the purpose of considering government business.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Mr. Bradley has moved that, pursuant to standing order 9(c)(i), the House shall meet from 6:45 p.m. to

9:30 p.m. on Tuesday, October 18, 2005, for the purpose of considering government business. Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry?

All in favour will say "aye."

All opposed will say "nay."

In my opinion, the ayes have it.

Call in the members. This will be a five-minute bell.

The division bells rang from 1352 to 1357.

The Speaker: All those in favour will stand one at a time and be recognized by the Clerk.

Ayes

Arnott, Ted

Arthurs, Wayne

Baird, John R.

Barrett, Toby

Bartolucci, Rick

Bentley, Christopher

Berardinetti, Lorenzo

Bradley, James J.

Cansfield, Donna H.

Caplan, David

Chambers, Mary Anne V.

Cordiano, Joseph

Craitor, Kim

Crozier, Bruce

Delaney, Bob

Dombrowsky, Leona

Duguid, Brad

Duncan, Dwight

Flynn, Kevin Daniel

Fonseca, Peter

Gerretsen, John

Hardeman, Ernie

Jackson, Cameron

Klees, Frank

Kular, Kuldip

Kwinter, Monte

Lalonde, Jean-Marc

Leal, Jeff

Levac, Dave

Marsales, Judy

McMeekin, Ted

McNeely, Phil

Meilleur, Madeleine

Miller, Norm

Mitchell, Carol

Mossop, Jennifer F.

O'Toole, John

Peters, Steve

Peterson, Tim

Phillips, Gerry

Pupatello, Sandra

Qaadri, Shafiq

Racco, Mario G.

Rinaldi, Lou

Runciman, Robert W.

Ruprecht, Tony

Sandals, Liz

Scott, Laurie

Sergio, Mario

Smith, Monique

Smitherman, George

Takhar, Harinder S.

Tascona, Joseph N.

Tory, John

Watson, Jim

Wilson, Jim

Wong, Tony C.

Yakabuski, John

The Speaker: All those opposed will please rise one at a time and be recognized by the Clerk.

Nays

Bisson, Gilles

Churley, Marilyn

Horwath, Andrea

Kormos, Peter

Marchese, Rosario

Martel, Shelley

Murdoch, Bill

Prue, Michael

The Clerk of the Assembly (Mr. Claude L. DesRosiers): The ayes are 58; the nays are 8.

The Speaker: I declare the motion carried.

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY

AND RESPONSES

STROKE CARE SYSTEM

Hon. George Smitherman (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): Mr. Speaker, I rise today to share with you and with all the members of this

House more good news about the Ontario government's stroke strategy.

Interjection.

Hon. Mr. Smitherman: Yes, I agree.

Hear this: Since taking office two years ago, we have been working hard to complete a province-wide stroke care system, a system that emphasizes prevention,

offers quicker treatment and benefits all Ontarians regardless of where they may live. I'm delighted to report that we have now put in place the final pieces for a fully functioning regional stroke

care system.

Ontario's integrated stroke care system has three distinct elements: regional stroke centres that provide leadership and ensure that stroke rehabilitation

services are applied consistently throughout the region; the next level consists of district stroke centres providing acute stroke care, local leadership and service integration; and, finally,

stroke prevention clinics, which, as their name suggests, provide stroke prevention services to people at high risk of stroke and those who have had a small stroke.

Earlier today, I was delighted to announce that Huntsville District Memorial Hospital is the latest hospital to be designated as a district stroke centre,

bringing the province-wide total to 18. I'm sure the honourable member for Parry Sound-Muskoka, as well as the people of that area, will join us in celebrating this development, as I can attest

that he just did.

But there's more good news. Today, I also had the opportunity to announce that five more hospitals have been designated stroke prevention clinics: Bluewater

Health in Sarnia, Brantford General Hospital, St. Joseph's Healthcare in Hamilton, Hawkesbury and District General Hospital, and Royal Victoria Hospital in Barrie. We now have 24 stroke prevention

clinics throughout Ontario providing services like diagnosis, case management, clinical interventions and assistance with lifestyle changes. Thanks to the system we now have in place, patients in

every region of Ontario can receive rapid diagnosis and treatment, as well as improved follow-up care within the community.

When dealing with strokes, one thing we know is that a quick response is absolutely critical, and we now have that capacity. As a result of this regional

stroke care system, lives are being saved and the lives of those who have been affected by strokes are being improved.

The system we now have in place is working. Here are some stats: 63% of stroke cases today are referred to a stroke clinic, compared to only 9% in 1997-98. The

time it takes for patients needing life-saving, clot-busting drugs to receive treatment has decreased 35% since 2000. The in-hospital stroke mortality rate has declined from 17.2% in 1997-98 to

15.9% today. That means people are living longer.

The time, effort and money we have invested in our stroke strategy is well spent, because the fact remains that stroke statistics are daunting. Stroke is the

third leading cause of death in Ontario and the leading cause of disability in our country. It's also the leading cause of admission of the elderly into our long-term-care homes.

Here in Ontario, 16,000 people per year suffer stroke and 90,000 of our fellow Ontarians are living with the effects of a stroke. Clearly, faced with an aging

population, we're also facing a dramatic increase in the number of strokes. So we're working hard to rise to this challenge.

Thanks to the success of Ontario's stroke care system, this province is seen as a leader in the field. In the United States, the National Institutes of Health

use Ontario's three-tiered approach to acute stroke care as a model for developing American priorities for future stroke care.

It gives me a great deal of pleasure and pride to join with all members to celebrate the progress that has been made, and to compliment those health care

professionals staffing the front line of health care for the great work they're doing.

SMALL BUSINESS

Hon. Joseph Cordiano (Minister of Economic Development and Trade): I am pleased to stand in my place to tell this House about the important

steps our government is taking to support small business in Ontario.

When the McGuinty government took office, we decided we needed to provide the kind of vibrant business environment that encourages success and prosperity. We

wanted to support the entrepreneurial spirit that drives the economy across this province. We knew if we did this, Ontarians would prosper as a result.

Small business is critical to our economy. Ninety-nine per cent of Ontario businesses are small and medium-sized. More than half of all Ontarians work in small

and medium-sized firms, and this year, according to a CIBC study, more small businesses will be created in Ontario than in any other province in the country.

So the facts support our strategy, and we are moving forward in our commitment to this crucial segment of our economy. We have established the new Small

Business Agency of Ontario -- a direct link between small business and government, where small business interests are included in our decision-making process. This team of highly qualified members,

from eight government ministries and the business community, will champion the concerns of small business within government. By having eight ministries represented, we have ensured that small

businesses from all sectors will be heard, and we will listen very carefully.

Earlier this month, we unveiled the agency's new online regulatory registry to support small business. The registry provides information in plain language on

proposed and approved regulations that affect business people directly every single day. As a result of this tool, business people will gain a better understanding and greater involvement in

designing better business regulations that reduce their regulatory burden. As a result, they will be able to concentrate on what they do best: being successful, productive and innovative. That

means more jobs and prosperity for all Ontarians.

This October, we are celebrating Small Business Month. We want to recognize the outstanding contributions to our prosperity that small business entrepreneurs

make every single day. It's also an opportunity to inform entrepreneurs about all the programs our government has designed to help them succeed. The McGuinty government is celebrating the spirit of

Ontario's 340,000 entrepreneurs, and we want to support their goals and ambitions every step of the way.

We want all our entrepreneurs to feel proud to be an Ontario small business. I urge everyone in this House and everywhere across the province to support small

business in their communities.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Responses?

Mr. Ted Chudleigh (Halton): Small Business Week in Ontario: Family businesses across this province are the backbone of Ontario's economy.

Small businesses that have fewer than 49 employees in a business: there are more than 42,000 of these companies in Ontario. They are the economic engine of this province. In order to succeed and do

well, they need a low-tax jurisdiction with a minimum of red tape and laws that create a level playing field. Your government is failing small business in all these areas.

In the spring of 2004, your budget raised small business taxes by 38% by cancelling a tax cut aimed at small businesses -- a broken promise. You hiked hydro

rates from 4.3 cents to 5.5 cents. Virtually all small businesses use well over the 1,000 kilowatts per month. This was a 28% increase to small businesses, and this was another broken promise.

There will be more increases in hydro rates to come next year. You raised business property taxes by lifting the hard cap on business property tax, something you said you would not do -- yet

another broken promise. You raised the minimum wage from $6.85 to $7.15, going to $8.00 by 2007, a 17% increase on small businesses. You allowed the WSIB premiums to continue to increase while this

board operates under a cloud of accusations of mismanagement.

Your government is failing the small business community of Ontario. It is obvious from the litany of broken promises that you don't have a plan to either

manage this economy or support small businesses. Perhaps the best we can expect is for you to go down to the cafeteria, get yourself some serviettes and start all over again with a new plan.

STROKE CARE SYSTEM

Mrs. Elizabeth Witmer (Kitchener-Waterloo): I'm pleased to respond to the announcement made today by the Minister of Health. He --

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Stop the clock. I need to be able to hear the member from Kitchener-Waterloo. I would ask all members to

restrain from helping her any more than you already have. Thank you.

Mrs. Witmer: As I say, this heart and stroke strategy was actually undertaken in 1999 by our government with the Heart and Stroke Foundation

of Ontario. At that time, we invested $70 million. We added another $30 million. I know the minister knows that. We actually designated and funded the nine regional stroke centres, as well as some

of the district stroke centres. We also announced the Ontario heart health program in 1998 and provided funding for the prevention of strokes.

I'm pleased to say that as a result of that initiative, there were gains made. For example, our stroke strategy in cardiac care policies resulted in 60% more

cardiac procedures taking place since 1995, and we were able to reduce wait times for cardiac procedures by 53% from 1995 to 2002.

I guess I thought the announcement that the minister might be making today was related to a commitment he made in this House on October 13, last Thursday,

where he said, "I can tell you that this coming Monday we will be launching our wait times Web site, a Web site that will empower Ontarians by providing them with accurate and timely information

about wait times." I went on the Web site just a few minutes ago, and the last time the Web site was updated was May of this year. It looks like another broken promise.

Ms. Shelley Martel (Nickel Belt): In response to the statement made by the Minister of Health, New Democrats want to commend the members of

the Heart and Stroke Foundation of Ontario for the leadership role the foundation played in creating the model for the Ontario stroke strategy. They did that over many months of deliberation. We

know there were many health care providers and health care professionals who used their expertise involving stroke and stroke care and who have been instrumental in ensuring that stroke patients

will be able to get the health care they deserve, as soon as they need it and as close to home as possible. So we want to thank them for the work they did in developing this strategy.

Briefly to the second point, we know there are other health care providers and health care professionals who have gone to this government in a similar fashion,

asking the government to establish the conditions that would enhance quality health care for the patients that they care for too. In this regard, the one example I want to use today references the

Arthritis Society of Ontario, which itself has gone to the government and encouraged and asked and said that they would work with the government to develop an arthritis strategy in the province of

Ontario.

In its most recent publication dated September 2005, which all members received, the society published what they call a Checkup on Arthritis. It was a look at

all provincial jurisdictions with respect to the policies, programs and the funding that each was dedicating to arthritis. The Arthritis Society made it very clear that Ontario doesn't have a

strategy for arthritis, that only British Columbia recognizes arthritis as a priority and has developed a strategy to manage that chronic condition as a result.

In Ontario, chronic diseases like arthritis are treated or dealt with from a pan-chronic disease approach, not from a specific disease strategy and maintenance

approach. At a time when there are about 1.6 million Ontarians who stated they had arthritis in 2001, and when we know that number will have risen to 2.8 million Ontarians who have arthritis by

next year, 2006, it seems that Ontario must move to develop a strategy as well for arthritis management. This is, after all, the second most prevalent chronic condition in Ontario.

That strategy would include three things: joint replacement for end-stage arthritis, early diagnosis and treatment for inflammatory arthritis and, thirdly,

chronic disease management. The society has given to all of us on more than one occasion all of the other recommendations in their 12-point plan to support those components.

Today I encourage the minister and his staff to work with representatives from the Arthritis Society of Ontario, who, like those who developed the strategy for

stroke, are very interested in having in place a strategy that would provide the best possible health care for their patients too.

SMALL BUSINESS

Ms. Andrea Horwath (Hamilton East): This is in response to the Minister of Economic Development and Trade. Certainly we should all be waving

our flag for Small Business Month because we know that our small business employers are an integral part of our economy here in Ontario, responsible for thousands of jobs. But then what we need to

do is examine the irony of having this government proclaim this month when it's doing so much to hurt our small businesses, like the mom-and-pop enterprises that fuel the economic engine of this

province.

The price of hydro is the number one issue that concerns employers large and small in Ontario. The high price of gasoline has further ignited their anger. The

mess of the property tax assessment system, a regressive system that desperately needs attention, is another area where small business owners see the McGuinty Liberals falling down on the job. New

businesses are reeling from the fact that under CVA they now pay more in taxes each year than they do in rent. How are start-up small businesses supposed to succeed with the McGuinty Liberals

throwing roadblocks at them at every turn?

The minister says Ontario will have more small businesses created than in any other province. But how many of those small businesses are going to be able to

survive in this environment? Minister, take off your blindfold. In the manufacturing base, 42,000 skilled jobs were lost and tens of thousands more are likely to go. That's truly going to cause

suffering here in Ontario.

All those employees you have thrown out of work don't have the incomes now to support the small business community. Their consumer dollars aren't rippling

through the economy any more. If there's one thing small businesses need, it's a steady supply of customers. Your policies have robbed small businesses of significant consumer spending power that

they need to create more jobs, hire more people, and expand and flourish.

You have ripped away the basic tenets that small businesses need to really get ahead: affordable, reliable public hydro; stable and reasonable fuel prices; a

fair, transparent and workable property assessment system; and funding support for municipalities to enable them to do more in the way of community economic development initiatives.

Your promise of "no new taxes" quickly went out the window, along with all your other promises, once you became the government. So don't stand here today and

make any more hollow promises. If you really want to help small businesses, make a commitment to fix the problems that you've created that confront them every day. Actions speak much louder than a

ceremonial proclamation once a year.

PERSONS DAY

Hon. James J. Bradley (Minister of Tourism, minister responsible for seniors, Government House Leader): Speaker, I believe we have unanimous

consent for all parties to speak for up to five minutes to recognize international Persons Day.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Mr. Bradley has asked for unanimous consent for each party to make statements for up to five minutes with

regard to international Persons Day. Is it agreed? Agreed.

Hon. Sandra Pupatello (Minister of Community and Social Services, minister responsible for women's issues): Women's History Month provides an

important opportunity to reflect upon the significant contributions of women to the history and growth of Ontario, to celebrate those who have stood for women's rights, who paved the way to

equality, who helped build a strong and free nation.

The theme of this year's Women's History Month is Women and War: Contributions and Consequences. Today, we in this House are privileged to have almost 30 women

who have made an immense contribution to Ontario. They are our military heroines, and they are seated today in our Speaker's gallery. Welcome to the House.

This is a tremendous day because this is the first time we've had such a collection of women here in the House, with us in the Legislature. You are indeed

welcome, and I hope it's not your last.

This year, the 60th anniversary of the end of the Second World War, has been declared Year of the Veteran in gratitude for the enormous debt we owe to men and

women who served. On behalf of all Ontarians, our government thanks all veterans for the freedom, peace and democracy that we enjoy today.

When we think of veterans, the picture we often form is one of a male soldier lying in a muddy trench, storming a beach or marching home in victory. During

Women's History Month, we want to refocus that picture. We are refocusing so that we can celebrate the contributions that women made to the war effort both at home and abroad.

It's a picture that provides an example for the next generation of women so that they too can be leaders in their community. It's a picture of a woman soldier

flying a fighter plane, driving a tank, inspecting her troops. It is a picture of women veterans who are with us today. It is the picture of Una Golding walking into the recruiting office in

Brandon, Manitoba, five days after her 18th birthday. It's the story of the members of the Women's Royal Canadian Naval Service who have joined us here today, the picture of Vera Peel as a young

woman who enlisted in the army because she felt it was her duty. These women volunteered to serve their country by maintaining anti-submarine equipment and aircraft as well as playing a vital role

in communications and signalling. They, along with all women who served both home and abroad, performed crucial roles as full and equal partners in the support of Canada's war effort.

All of the veterans here with us today made a difference then and they continue to make a difference now. Our government is privileged to help share this

history. We want to ensure that we educate young people about the experiences and contributions of the women who are with us today. We want to ensure that our young people see the image of Vera

Morgan being taken to a secret training location on her first day in the army. We want to see that our young people study the portrait of Helen Hughes embarking on a five-mile march during the

first morning of basic training in Kitchener.

Earlier this year, we announced our support of the Dominion Institute's Memory Project road show through the Ontario Seniors' Secretariat. Veterans working

with the Memory Project road show continue to bring their stories to light and build an interactive and permanent legacy of our veterans' heroism and valour. I know that Jim Bradley, the minister

responsible for seniors, shares with me a determination to ensure that the stories of our vets are preserved and passed on to future generations. Thank you, Minister. A great thanks to our minister

responsible for seniors.

October 18 provides us with a moment to reflect on another milestone in women's history. It was on this day in 1929 that women were first legally recognized as

persons in Canada, and thank God for that. The "persons" case was a milestone in women's history, allowing them for the first time all the privileges and rights enjoyed by men under the

Constitution.

The contribution of women during the Second World War was a milestone that had just as strong an impact on our history. The women veterans seated in the

gallery here today propelled an unstoppable movement of women along the path to equality. They ushered in an era leading to full participation of women in all aspects of economic, social and

cultural life, and in building the strong, vibrant, inclusive communities of Ontario today.

This Women's History Month, we look back upon this legacy. We reflect on their contributions and celebrate the military women who follow in their footsteps,

women such as Lieutenant Colonel Susan Beharriell, who is with us in the gallery today. This woman joined the Canadian Forces in 1973 and was a member of the first platoon of women to complete the

same basic officers' training as men. We are thrilled that she is with us here today. Maybe we could ask her to stand. She is presently on the national security studies staff of the Canadian Forces

College here in Toronto.

I ask all members of the House today to join me in recognizing these tremendous women who are part of our history and a part of Ontario's and Canada's

future.

Mrs. Elizabeth Witmer (Kitchener-Waterloo): Today, I am pleased to speak on behalf of the Progressive Conservative caucus in recognition of

Persons Day. As has been said, today marks the 76th anniversary of the British Privy Council's ruling that women were indeed persons under Canadian law.

We owe this historical landmark ruling to five outstanding and determined women who took their fight to the highest court in Canada at the time, the Privy

Council in England. It was Emily Murphy, Nellie McClung, Irene Parlby, Louise McKinney and Henrietta Muir Edwards who made up the Famous Five who were responsible for this decisive victory in the

fight for equality of Canadian women. They won the right for women to sit in the Senate, thus opening the door for potential political opportunity to any woman who would take the challenge.

So today is Persons Day. It is a highlight in this month of celebration. This year's theme is Women and War: Contributions and Consequences. I am pleased to

join my colleagues in this House in congratulating the women who are here today. It is wonderful to have this opportunity to celebrate the many and countless contributions that women have made in

the war effort, both here at home and abroad. These women have served and continue to serve as full and equal partners in the war effort. In fact, it is these women who have been role models for

many other women to follow. It is these women who have been the pioneers and who have laid the foundation for women to enjoy success in many other areas of life in Canada.

We have seen women increase their influence and continue to excel in non-traditional roles, just as the war effort was a non-traditional role. We see women

today increasing their influence and excelling in business, the arts, politics and sports. Women have made great strides forward, just as these women in the gallery have. Women have served as

justices in the Supreme Court, they have run for Premier of this province, as Lyn McLeod did, and they have served as Prime Minister of Canada, as Kim Campbell did.

Today women have more economic power and access to a wider range of jobs and opportunities than ever before. More are pursuing post-secondary education. More

are the successful owners of small businesses. Today we salute all women who are working hard toward independence and self-sufficiency.

Today it is a special privilege that we have to honour and recognize these heroic women who served in war and peace. Congratulations to you all.

Ms. Marilyn Churley (Toronto-Danforth): I too, on behalf of New Democrats, would like to welcome -- although I can't see them; they're way

back there -- the female veterans who are here today and to congratulate them, thank them and honour them for their contribution, which quite frequently gets lost in the shuffle when we honour

veterans. When I go to the Legions in my riding of Toronto-Danforth, and in Beaches-East York, I spend a lot of time with the female veterans who come on a regular basis to those places.

I must say that I'm really happy to be here today, standing as a full person -- aren't you all happy that I'm here today as a full person? -- because of the

work of these women who are with us here today and because of the work of these five women we are honouring. I'm honoured to pay tribute to the 76th anniversary of the "persons" case and the Famous

Five who won this landmark ruling for all Canadian women. They challenged and defeated the status quo, and we all know from this place that challenging and defeating the status quo can take years

and a lot of hard work. What they saw happen was women moving from secondary citizens, which kept them from entering the arena of political decision-making and all kinds of other things, into this

sphere. We've got to remember, as we stand here, that women not only were not allowed to run for office, they were not allowed to vote.

I would say to all the young people and the young men sitting here today, can you imagine a time in your life when you would be considered a non-person? It was

just 76 years ago that girls and women in this country were not considered persons. That's pretty incredible. That's within my mother's lifetime and, I'm sure, for the young people here today,

within some of your grandmothers' lifetimes.

This past year, I held Ontario's greatest women contest, and I want to thank all members from all parties who participated in that. I must say it was so

well-received that I've been encouraged to make it an annual event and, if you will, also a Canada's greatest women event. How do we even begin to choose between those five women we're honouring

today, let alone the veterans who are with us today and so many great women who have contributed to this country for so many years, some of whom we haven't even heard about? There are women who

came up on the list of women on my Web site from all over the province, some of whom I didn't know a whole lot about. I am honoured to have started that process, because that's really what it's all

about: educating ourselves and young people about the history and the incredible contributions of women in this province and indeed in this country.

Their challenge 76 years ago to the

interpretation of the term "persons" opened the door for women to take their rightful place in Parliament and all aspects

of public life. I want to underscore here that they did it working individually and collectively, again a testimony to the strength women have when we work together. Occasions like this today

remind us of this important lesson that we women in recent years sometimes tended to overlook.

I want to pay tribute for just a moment to LEAF, the Women's Legal Education and Action Fund. They will be having their annual breakfast -- I believe they

first started in 1985 -- on Wednesday, November 2, at 7:30 in the morning. But once we get there, we all wake up and have a wonderful time honouring the women who contributed so much to our country

and to these values. I invite all people -- not just women, but everybody -- to attend the breakfast on November 2. As you know, LEAF was established through the court system, through the legal

system, to continue to fight for equality and equity for women. They are doing a tremendous job in furthering that agenda, and they need our support.

I want to end by leaving a quote with you that you're all familiar with: "Never retreat, never explain, never apologize; just get the thing done and let them

howl."

Interjection: Who said that?

Ms. Churley: That's my motto, and you remember who said that.

ORAL QUESTIONS

PAROLE SYSTEM

Mr. John Tory (Leader of the Opposition): My question is for the Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services. Minister, do you

support in principle the idea that a criminal who is sentenced to life in prison for second-degree murder and sexual assault should be given a day parole pass to Canada's Wonderland?

Hon. Monte Kwinter (Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services): The leader of the official opposition has addressed a question to

me that has nothing to do with the provincial jurisdiction. If someone has been given a life sentence for murder, he would be in a federal institution. He would be subject to a federal parole

board. It has nothing really to do with me, and I can't answer for them.

Mr. Tory: It's too bad the minister doesn't have an opinion, but that's fine. We'll go on to the next part here. You've indicated, Minister,

that your government intends to bring forward legislation this fall to transfer Ontario's parole responsibilities to the federal parole board, the same parole board that issues day passes to

Canada's Wonderland to a man convicted of second-degree and sexual assault. Canada's Wonderland was also an option for that same board for another person sentenced to 14 years for robbery with a

gun, as well as a criminal given a three-year jail term for sexual assault and drug trafficking.

Minister, why do you want to back away from your responsibility and your government's responsibility for community safety and hand parole in Ontario over to

this federal bunch who think it's OK to send convicted criminals to Canada's Wonderland by the busload? Why would you do that?

Hon. Mr. Kwinter: First of all, it would be, I think, prudent for you to direct that question to your colleague in Ottawa, Mr. Harper, and

have him ask that question there.

Getting back to the idea of the parole board, you should know that we have not made any decision regarding the parole board, but we do have a responsibility to

look at how we can provide safe accommodation for the people of Ontario and also to look at whether or not there's duplication. I think the member would like to know that on any given day, we have

56,000 male offenders under community supervision. Of that number, 130 are on parole.

We now have a parole board in Ontario. We're one of only three provinces that have it. We have a federal parole system. I have a responsibility to look at

whether or not there are some benefits to merging those two particular facilities. That decision has not been made, but I'd be remiss if I didn't at least examine it.

Mr. Tory: Let's look at the facts and maybe decide that it's a good thing that we're one of three provinces that has our own parole board.

According to your own ministry, provincial offenders in Ontario are released before the end of their sentence approximately 14% of the time. The National Parole Board grants early releases to

approximately 50% of convicted criminals.

Minister, people across the province, and the police chiefs, for example, who are here today, are rightly angry at Ontario's revolving-door justice system. Now

you're set to make it even easier by handing this thing over for people to get out of jail early on parole. I think most people in Ontario don't think it should be easier to get out earlier, and so

I ask the minister this: Why are you handing Ontario's parole system over to the bunch that brought us revolving-door justice in Ottawa? Why are you doing that?

Hon. Mr. Kwinter: The member keeps insisting that we're doing it, and I keep telling him that the decision has not been made. Also, the member

will, I'm sure, want to know that in the correctional facilities in Ontario, where offenders are sentenced who are sentenced to two years less a day, the average length of stay in our facility for

a convicted offender is 66 days. The average length of stay for those people who are on remand is 34 days. So when you consider that people are there, on average, 66 days, if they're charged, 34

days if they're on remand, the idea that we are putting the community at risk with any of these people just isn't true.

What we are doing is trying to make sure the community is safe. We will not do anything that will put that in jeopardy. But we still have a responsibility to

examine everything that we do in my ministry to see if there are effective ways of doing it.

Mr. Tory: Well, Mr. Speaker, we'll get to it another day, but the minister is looking at this the wrong way. They should be there longer than

66 days. That is the point for a lot of these people. They're getting a tap on the wrist.

WAIT TIMES

Mr. John Tory (Leader of the Opposition): My next question is for the Minister of Health. Can you explain why the wait time between seeing a

specialist and receiving treatment in Ontario -- your definition of a wait time -- has increased from seven weeks in 2003 to nine weeks today? Why are wait times going up on your watch?

Hon. George Smitherman (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): First off, to the honourable member who has yet to tell Ontarians where he

would make his $240-million cut in health care, I'd be interested in your response to that. I'd also be interested, in your next supplementary, if the honourable member could offer a source for his

information.

Mr. Tory: I'm happy to: the 15th annual Hospital Waiting Lists in Canada survey, a survey you welcomed this morning. According to that survey,

Ontario's wait times are going the wrong way and are increasing since your government took office in 2003. This is despite all of your rhetoric and all of your announcements, and despite the $900 a

head that you're collecting from people on the health tax that you said would reduce wait times.

According to the report, the wait time for hip and knee surgeries in Ontario has increased to 30 weeks, up from 24 weeks in 2004 -- a 25% increase. Recently,

you shut down the only independent Web site, the joint replacement registry, which actually objectively monitored these wait times. Why are you hiding the truth from Ontarians when it comes to the

wait times they face, and why are they getting worse on your watch?

Hon. Mr. Smitherman: I've appreciated so much the honourable member's clarity in offering that the survey, not scientifically based in any

way, that he offers as evidence, was completed -- it's important -- by none other than his leader -- I should say, his former leader, Mike Harris, and the gang at the Fraser Institute.

Hon. Sandra Pupatello (Minister of Community and Social Services, minister responsible for women's issues): It's another Tory story.

Hon. Mr. Smitherman: Yes, it's Tory, Tory, same old story.

What I will offer to the honourable member is that we'll be challenging the $240-million cut that he has proposed for health care, and accordingly, he should

offer that up. Also, to let the honourable member know, he referred to a Web site that's no longer available. There was no such Web site, sir. You should talk to the honourable member beside you.

She could tell you that.

More to the point, Ontario soon will have available to all, on their Web site, state-of-the-art research, scientifically based, built on the work of expert

panels in Ontario, hundreds and hundreds of doctors who have gotten together and done --

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Thank you. Final supplementary.

Mr. Tory: Well, of course that Web site was promised by the minister for Monday, and I think it's Tuesday today -- so yet again, not delivered

on time.

Minister, if you compared this report to each of the reports for the last two years, here's the trend that emerges: Hip and knee surgeries have seen --

Interjections.

The Speaker: The Leader of the Opposition.

Mr. Tory: Here's the trend that emerges: Hip and knee surgeries have seen wait times increase by 25% since last year. Medical oncology cancer

treatment wait times increased 20% since last year. Patients now have to wait six weeks to receive a CT scan; they had to wait five weeks before. MRI scans now take 11.5 weeks, compared to 10 weeks

when you were elected.

Our wait times, Minister, are going the wrong way. You shut down the only independent source that measured wait times, and you say, "Just trust us. Wait times

are going to get fixed." My question to the minister is this: When you do come forward with your information, why should people believe you?

Hon. Mr. Smitherman: The honourable member has offered up, for his era of believability, a dependence upon Mike Harris. I think, in contrast,

a lot of people are going to feel like we're off to a much better start.

I still give the honourable member the opportunity to indicate where the first instalment of his $240-million cut to health care is going to come from; $240

million is yet unallocated. The reality is this: Only one party in this Legislature and only one government in Canada campaigned on wait times. It was our government. As a result, there is a

discussion going on in our country that was fuelled here in Ontario by our party in the last election.

In the time since: MRI access, up by 42%; CTs by more than 8%; hips and knees by 28%. This government, with hundreds of millions of dollars of investment that

our Premier leveraged from the federal government, is investing in an eradication of wait time challenges, and soon --

The Speaker: Thank you. New question.

PROPERTY TAXATION

Mr. Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): A question for the Acting Premier: This week, Ontario families are being hit with property tax

assessment increases of 20% and 30% -- a nasty blow to families already paying more for hydro, more for heating costs and more for gas prices. And what is the Premier's response? "We didn't run on

that." Minister, your property tax system is unfair, it's arbitrary and it's hurting people. What is the McGuinty government's plan to fix this unfair situation?

Hon. Gerry Phillips (Minister of Government Services): I'd refer that to the Minister of Finance, who I think has responsibility for this.

Hon. Dwight Duncan (Minister of Finance, Chair of the Management Board of Cabinet): MPAC has finalized, as we all know, its reassessment for

properties across Ontario for the year 2006. I'd remind the member opposite in the first instance that these do not constitute tax increases. There are a number of factors that go into the

calculation of taxes that -- I have to rethink this answer if Flaherty is nodding in agreement. One has to be cognizant -- and perhaps the member is not, although, given his experience in raising

taxes in past years -- that in fact the assessment values are taken in the context of a mill rate across all of Ontario's municipalities, as is the education levy. I would urge those people in the

province who are receiving their assessments and are concerned with them -- there are rights of appeal available, and we will continue to monitor the situation.

Mr. Hampton: Ontario property taxes are now being set by the roll of a dice. People are being treated unfairly and arbitrarily, and what is

the Premier's response? "We didn't run on that." You didn't run on setting a health tax of $2.5 billion, and you didn't run on driving hydro rates through the roof either, but you've certainly done

that, and done it very quickly.

Here is the reality: Property taxpayers across this province are being hurt by an unfair and arbitrary system. You are quick to act on some of these other

fronts. Where is your plan to address the unfairness of your property tax system?

Hon. Mr. Duncan: I would remind the member opposite that municipalities do have a number of tools available to them to help mitigate these

types of assessment changes. First of all we have a program that provides relief from reassessment related to tax increase to low-income senior and disabled homeowners upon application. We have

programs to limit assessment-related tax increases on commercial, industrial and multi-residential properties. There are optional tools available to municipalities as well.

Again I remind the member that these tax increases and these assessment increases are not necessarily tax increases. Municipalities do have tools with which to

manage them. It takes the assessed value of the property that will be applied against individual mill rates, and then the tax is calculated. We'll see where that winds up at the end of the tax

season, we'll see where municipal mill rates wind up, and I believe that overall we will see that most municipalities will be --

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Thank you. Final supplementary.

Mr. Hampton: Well, here's what the Ombudsman said. He describes your property tax system as "Monty Python-like." Here's what one opponent of

the Mike Harris property tax system had to say, and I want to quote him: "Minister, when are you going to admit that you've screwed up royally when it comes to property tax reform in Ontario?" Who

was that? That was Dalton McGuinty.

Minister, Dalton McGuinty told the people of Ontario to choose change. Why are you now endorsing and supporting the very property tax system that Dalton

McGuinty used to say was screwed up and unfair to taxpayers?

Hon. Mr. Duncan: Let me remind the member opposite that our 2004 budget featured a $125 additional property credit for seniors, which you

voted against. You voted against that. As always, the member opposite doesn't give you the whole story.

Interjections.

The Speaker: Order.

Hon. Mr. Duncan: What the Premier also said this morning is that we anxiously await the Ombudsman's report as well, and we will welcome its

conclusions.

What did your critic say yesterday with respect to the property tax system? Let me quote. He was asked if you had a position on change, and he said it is "in

the gestation of looking at some kind of ... policy." He says you'll have a position by 2007; you don't want to share your position too early. This was in the Ottawa Citizen, Saturday, October 15.

Put your position on the table. Don't hide behind that. We're standing up for the assessment and for people in Ontario. We challenge you --

Interjections.

The Speaker: Thank you. Order.

ELECTRICITY SUPPLY

Mr. Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): My question is for the Minister of Energy, but it is interesting to see the Liberal finance minister

defend Mike Harris's property tax system.

Minister, yesterday you announced a $6.5-billion sweetheart deal with Bruce Power for more expensive, unreliable private nuclear power. You broke your promise

for a full public debate on nuclear power, and you left out important details from your announcement, like who will cover the cost of overruns and the reductions in the lease payments given to

Bruce Power.

You were also silent on something else: what to do with the radioactive waste, which is toxic for thousands of years. Minister, since you had so much to say

yesterday, how much new toxic radioactive waste will your deal with Bruce Power generate that has to be looked after in Ontario?

Hon. Donna H. Cansfield (Minister of Energy): I'm delighted to be able to say that, although the honourable member has been concerned about

the lack of consultation, in fact, through a directive from the Ministry of Energy, the Ontario Power Authority has met with over 175 individuals. They have been in 40 newspapers; they've done

public consultations; they've met with Greenpeace; they've met with Energy Probe. The consultation is continuing; they're not over yet. Also, if the member were going through the contracts, he

would recognize that $20 million every year will go toward the nuclear waste.

Mr. Hampton: We've learned that when you hold a couple of meetings, for the McGuinty government that constitutes a full open public debate

about nuclear power.

My question was: How much more nuclear waste is going to be generated? I didn't hear an answer. We know that storing nuclear waste is dangerous, that it's

complicated and that it's also very expensive. Yet the McGuinty government has no idea how much more nuclear waste is going to be generated.

Let me ask you this, Minister: Do you know how much it will cost hydro ratepayers to store the additional nuclear waste that will result from your special deal

with Bruce Power? How much more will it cost people on their hydro bill?

Hon. Mrs. Cansfield: I always find it interesting from the honourable member -- he doesn't like nuclear; he doesn't like coal; he doesn't like

gas; he doesn't like much of anything. The fascinating

part is that while they were in government and had the opportunity to do something about nuclear, instead they cancelled 1,800 megawatts of

clean renewable energy and they cancelled every conservation program in the province, and then they contributed to the $10-billion overrun on Darlington.

Mr. Hampton: Minister, you can be forgiven because you weren't here then, but if you read the history books, it was the Peterson government

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Stop the clock. Order. I can wait. Leader of the third party.

Mr. Hampton: It was the Peterson government that took a Darlington plant that was supposed to cost $4.7 billion and took it to $15 billion. It

was the Liberal energy critic, one Dalton McGuinty, who said you should cancel the Conawapa project.

But I want to ask you this: It's a $6.5-billion deal when you include the gift of lease reduction payments to Bruce Power and when you include the fact that

the ratepayers of Ontario could be stuck with a billion-dollar cost overrun package, and all you get in the end is a fixer-upper.

You promised, Minister, a full public debate on nuclear power. When is the full, open public debate on nuclear power going to happen now that you're already

doing a deal which costs too much and, frankly, still doesn't protect the safety of the people of Ontario?

Hon. Mrs. Cansfield: Our obligation is to keep the lights on in Ontario. We have a vision that includes safe, reliable, clean energy for this

province. We know we have to build, we know that we have to refurbish or maximize our existing assets, and we know we have to conserve as well. That is the direction we're going, because we have

25,000 megawatts of new supply: 2,200 in, 9,000 more, another 1,500. We're on our way, with more to come.

GREENBELT ADVERTISING

Mr. John Tory (Leader of the Opposition): I have a question for the Acting Premier. The voters of Ontario believed you when your party

promised, and I'm quoting from your election platform, that the McGuinty Liberals "will ban self-promotional government advertising." Can you explain why your government is breaking your own

promise and spending $1.5 million of scarce taxpayers' money on a massive advertising campaign to promote your flawed greenbelt plan?

Hon. Gerry Phillips (Minister of Government Services): I should think the minister responsible for the greenbelt wants to answer this.

Hon. James J. Bradley (Minister of Tourism, minister responsible for seniors, Government House Leader): I know that the Leader of the

Opposition has been against the greenbelt from the beginning. When he's with his downtown Toronto environmentalists, he has one point of view, but when he's with people who are opposed to the

greenbelt, those who are opposed to environmental change in the province of Ontario, he has another point of view.

As he would know, the Greenbelt Foundation is completely independent. It was set up in a very similar fashion to what your government did when you set up the

Oak Ridges Moraine Foundation. Any decisions that are made by that entity are in fact independent of government. They do not answer to us. So I don't know what the member is talking about when he

talks about this being a government program. It is a foundation. He should speak to the foundation if he's dissatisfied.

Mr. Tory: It would be a lot easier for you to speak to this independent foundation than for me, because the deputy minister of one of the

departments and half the board are appointed by the government of Ontario. The $25 million in scarce taxpayers' money that you've sent over there seems to have the sole purpose of promoting the

greenbelt. Not only are you subverting your own advertising rules by doing it through the back door, this self-promotional advertising, but it's obvious that you've broken another promise.

The ads in question, when you go to the Web site, inform people of such necessary facts as that apples grow on trees and deer are not found in the suburbs.

This organization is so awash in the taxpayers' cash, which you obviously have just floating out of your hands like it means nothing, that they can set up an office in a swanky office building in

Yorkville and spend money like it's going out of style.

My question is this: How can you possibly defend this kind of gross misuse of the taxpayers' dollars? Will you pull the ads right away, or are you telling us

this was just another promise that you're going to break and you're going to try and do it through the back door this time?

Hon. Mr. Bradley: I must, when I'm talking to the environmentalists in downtown Toronto, tell them of your great concern, because the

environmental community is very supportive of the Greenbelt Foundation. I'm sure that a former minister of the government, Dr. Robert Elgie, who is head of the greenbelt commission, would be an

individual who would recognize the importance of the greenbelt.

You know full well that this is independent. You'll remember, I think, that when you set up the Oak Ridges Moraine Foundation you had an allocation of funding

of several million dollars for that foundation as well. You did not, to your credit, interfere with the manner in which they chose to utilize those funds. I do not intend to stand over top of these

individuals and impose upon them any government policy or government recommendations. They are there on behalf of the Greenbelt Foundation to promote it and, of course, to make sure that it's

successful. I hope you share my view that it's going to be successful. I don't think so, so far. I think the right wing has gotten to you and not the downtown environmentalists.

WASTE DISPOSAL

Ms. Marilyn Churley (Toronto-Danforth): I have a question to the parliamentary assistant to the Minister of the Environment. Yesterday, in

response to questions about your government's lack of a plan to deal with a possible garbage crisis in the GTA if Michigan suddenly closes its borders, you said, among many other things, "We have

an amazing plan." Would you be kind enough to table this amazing plan with us today?

Mr. John Wilkinson (Perth-Middlesex): I appreciate the question from the member from Toronto-Danforth. She will recall that the quote had to

do with our waste diversion plan. I remember being asked that question by the Toronto Star and answering it. That was the context of what I was talking about. I want to share -- since you want to

know, of course -- our amazing waste diversion plan that we have as a government.

In Ontario, each municipality is responsible for identifying its own waste management solutions. That said, we're committed to giving municipalities the tools

they need to make responsible waste management decisions. No municipality should assume that disposing of its waste outside of Ontario is an acceptable long-term solution. We must continually

strive to reduce, reuse and recycle the waste that each municipality generates.

I might add, you share with me the fact that it's a wonderful week, being Waste Reduction Week here in Ontario. I'm sure you support that.

Ms. Churley: Well, parliamentary assistant, I understand that there's nothing to table because there is no amazing plan. That's the plan?

There is no toolbox. You haven't done any of the things that you're on your feet talking about today. You're quick to blame the municipalities, yet your own waste diversion discussion paper that

you're talking about says "significant upfront capital expenditures and additional resources would be required" etc., and the province should help out, yet not a penny has gone to help those

municipalities. When can municipalities like Toronto with aggressive plans for waste diversion -- not idle promises like you're giving -- expect their cheque?

Mr. Wilkinson: I say to the honourable member opposite in regard to our plan about waste diversion that the first thing we did as a government

was to approve making industry cover half the cost of the blue box. In this province, there were many municipalities committed to the blue box that were in danger of losing this most vital and most

apparent commitment of people to the 3Rs because of the loss of the blue box. We wanted to make sure that wouldn't happen, so we approved -- that has provided millions of dollars to municipalities

from industries so that we can support the blue box. I'm sure the member opposite is in support of the blue box.

We're improving composting standards to encourage the development of more composting programs. We're ordering plans, and we've asked the WDO to help us in

reducing what things go into landfills: for example, electronic waste. Yesterday, when I was with two young classes from Alliston, it was exciting to be at the waste reduction kickoff where we had

the advantage of seeing the great --

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Thank you.

FAMILY HEALTH TEAMS

Mr. Kim Craitor (Niagara Falls): My question is to the Minister of Health. I know that one of our government's signature health care

initiatives is our family health teams. In April, our government announced the first of 69 family health teams. This was a landmark announcement. I don't have to tell you and members of the House,

and in particular the people from my riding, that when I was first elected, for the first three or four months I was inundated with people coming to me because they didn't have a doctor, the most

basic need when you're looking for family health care. I know this is a legacy left behind by the previous government, so I'm excited to see our government moving forward to reverse this

situation.

In my riding of Niagara Falls there was an excellent application for a family health team submitted by Portage Medical Group. I have thrown my support behind

their application. Minister, will this family health team be approved so that it can better serve the care of my constituents in the riding of Niagara Falls?

Hon. George Smitherman (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): I'm very pleased to have a chance to speak just a little bit about our family

health team initiative. We have already had 213 applications from Ontario communities. We've launched the first 69 of these family health teams, and they're taking shape at various stages but

taking shape well in different parts of the province. Soon we're going to move forward with a subsequent wave of announcements related to family health teams and, next year, in our third wave,

complete the commitment we made to Ontarians of building 150 family health teams.

I can't confirm today for the honourable member that the initiative he specifically raises a question about is moving forward, but it is there, being

considered among the applications that have come forward with a strong degree of provider involvement and a good degree of support from the community. I hope to be in a position to spread the good

news of family health teams to further communities soon.

Mr. Craitor: I understand that the family health teams are part of our government's larger plan to deliver a better model of health care,

where more care is provided in the community and less pressure is on the hospitals. On this note, I'd like to thank you for the announcement and the increase in funding for our home care.

The community care access centre of Niagara received more than $308 million in increased funding this year to provide home care to my constituents. This means

that more of my constituents can receive care at home, where outcomes are better and it means less pressure on the Niagara health system's hospitals that serve my constituents. Minister, can you

tell me and everyone in Ontario how this plan works in the big picture for all of our health care system?

Interjection.

Hon. Mr. Smitherman: When the member from Timmins-James Bay asks a question about health care, it matters, but when the member from Niagara

Falls does, apparently it doesn't and he disparages that member.

I'm very proud of the way our government has moved forward in terms of making investments that recognize the interdependency of various sectors in health care.

We inherited a circumstance where the legacy of two parties while in government meant that community-based mental health, as one example, didn't even receive base funding increases for more than a

decade, while we obviously know that people in communities needed those services.

Our investments in long-term care, in home care, in community support services and family health teams, as well as building on previous capacity related to

community health centres, are all designed, along with our focus on prevention, to provide more resources upstream, to get our health care system in a position where it's better able to support

people as close to home as possible and focus more of its time on keeping them well in the first place. Associated with that is the potential for the relief of pressure on hospitals, and our

announcement with respect to end-of-life care has contributed more in that regard.

WASTE DISPOSAL

Ms. Laurie Scott (Haliburton-Victoria-Brock): My question is to the parliamentary assistant to the Minister of the Environment. Yesterday you

said, "We have an amazing plan" for dealing with garbage disposal for Toronto and area if the border closes. Just a minute ago you talked about reduce, reuse and recycle. There has to be more to

this amazing plan than reduce, reuse and recycle. Could you please share more of the plan with us?

Mr. John Wilkinson (Perth-Middlesex): I want to say to the member opposite, my friend from Haliburton-Victoria-Brock, congratulations on being

appointed the critic for the environment by your leader.

I'd be more than happy to share with all the members about this. I want you to know that from the day this government was formed, we've been telling those

municipalities that ship their waste across an international border that this was not a viable, long-term solution. Given the recent events in the US, the minister met with those communities

involved and made it clear that they need to develop a viable, long-term solution to deal with their waste.

Further, I can share that this past Friday the Premier asked the ministry to meet with those municipalities again to get a status report, to get an update on

the development of their plans, and those meetings will take place. Finally, I want to assure the member that when municipalities submit their final plans, we will review them at the Ministry of

the Environment expeditiously to ensure they meet our very high environmental standards.

Ms. Scott: More meetings -- we need to get the border working.

We checked the Environmental Bill of Rights postings. There's no evidence of your amazing plan. We checked the Ministry of the Environment Web site -- no

evidence of your amazing plan. We checked in every newspaper. There's no announcement of your amazing plan.

Yesterday the Premier said that "should the hauler be unable to deliver that garbage to the landfill site in question, it has an ensuing responsibility to

deliver it to yet another landfill site." It turns out the Premier was amazingly wrong on this point. According to the chair of the Toronto Works committee, if the border closes, the responsibility

rests with you, the government, and the municipalities to find an alternative, not the Michigan landfill site. Where exactly does your amazing plan put the Toronto area garbage, should the border

close? Can you say? Is it going to Simcoe, Halton, Peel or London?

Mr. Wilkinson: I want you to know that we on this side of the House listen to the mayor of the city of Toronto in regard to what is the status

of their contract, and not other people. The mayor has been very clear on this point.

The second thing I want you to know -- I recall that in the throne speech, and I know the member was listening intently, we talked about the need to reform the

environmental assessment process. The previous government came up with the idea of going to scoped environmental assessments, and what that did was divert all of these environmental assessments

into the courts. That made sure, actually, that it was not clear, that it was not efficient, that it was not transparent. So it's important for us to achieve that, and I look forward to the

minister making an announcement shortly about our change in the process of environmental assessment that will make it clear, transparent and efficient.

ILLEGAL TAXI OPERATORS

Mr. Michael Prue (Beaches-East York): My question is to the Minister of Transportation. Today, hundreds of city of Toronto cab drivers came to

Queen's Park. They have the support not only of the people of the city of Toronto, but of the council of the city of Toronto and the mayor of the city of Toronto, who wrote to you on September 29

stating their opposition to your Bill 169. The city of Toronto has asked you to withdraw that provision dealing with cab drivers. All the taxi drivers want is fairness, but today, when they asked

you to come out to see them, you refused to meet with them. What do they have to do to be treated equally with your favoured limousine drivers?

Hon. Harinder S. Takhar (Minister of Transportation): Let me start by saying that I greatly value the work of the taxi industry. Over the last

two years, I have come to appreciate how hard they work, and I also have come to appreciate the issues that they are facing.

Bill 169 deals with scooping. Scooping happens when an illegal taxi driver picks up a passenger in a jurisdiction in which he is not entitled to pick up the

passengers.

This is about public safety. It is about attracting tourism to this industry. We on this side of the House are absolutely committed to deal with this issue.

Once we deal with this issue, it will deal with the issues of the taxi industry in a fair and equitable manner and will address most of their concerns.

Mr. Prue: Mr. Minister, the only thing we agree on is that these are hard-working men and women. They are the eyes and ears of our streets,

they have a dangerous job, and they have low pay.

Last year in this House, I asked you about a photo op in the Brampton Sanjh Savera Weekly in which you and the Premier posed with limo drivers from the airport

following a $200,000 fundraiser and discussions on the issue of scooping. You would not answer my question then; I don't expect you will answer it today. But my question today is, what rationale do

you have to continue this reckless policy in the face of opposition from the mayor, from the council, from the taxi industry and from the 2.5 million people of Toronto?

Hon. Mr. Takhar: Let me start by saying that this is not a partisan issue; this is an issue about public safety. Let me just quote something

that was said at the committee when the hearings were happening on Bill 169. It was Karam Punian who said, "I am a New Democrat. People of our community do not attend only one party's fundraiser.

What happened last time was that a few people attended the Liberal fundraiser, a few people attended the Conservative fundraiser, and some people attended the NDP fundraiser. These people are

paying to each and every political party, not only one party."

The picture that you showed to me, you didn't even have the guts to say to me what was actually written on it -- just pretend about it.

RENEWABLE FUELS

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): New question. The member for Sault Ste. Marie.

Mr. David Orazietti (Sault Ste. Marie): Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and congratulations on your election to the Chair.

My question is for the Minister of Natural Resources. Minister, while you were in Prince township today, which is near my riding of Sault Ste. Marie, you broke

ground on the new Prince wind farm project. Can you elaborate on how releasing crown land for wind power development will help our government reach its target of generating 5% of 1,350 megawatts of

Ontario's total energy capacity from renewable resources by 2007?

Interjections.

The Speaker: Order. It's getting a bit noisy. The Minister of Natural Resources.

Hon. David Ramsay (Minister of Natural Resources, minister responsible for aboriginal affairs): I appreciate the question from the member from

Sault Ste. Marie. I think, for the enlightenment of the others, it's actually in your riding, and it was a great honour to be there this morning, as it is just north of the city of Sault Ste.

Marie.

This is just the beginning for the Ontario government, to develop clean, efficient, renewable energy. I was very proud to be a part of this and proud that the

Ministry of Natural Resources could be part of this project and contributing some crown land. Of the 65 or 66 wind turbines, 16 of them are going to be located on crown land. It has a total of

about 502 hectares. This is 99 megawatts of power, enough power to light 20,000 homes -- power them totally. This is just the beginning. We have great untapped potential in Ontario. This project is

a three-year environmental assessment, and it's ready to go.

Mr. Orazietti: Thank you, Minister. With our government's commitment to phase out coal-fired plants in Ontario, renewable energy sources are

going to become even more important to ensure that we can meet Ontario's energy needs. What else is your ministry doing to help our government meet its needs and its commitment to renewable energy

by 2007?

Hon. David Ramsay: This is all part of our crown land wind and water power strategy that we put out there for almost a year now, and this is

one of these that is up and running. At the present time, we have three sites that have received testing approval, and 18 are currently being reviewed by MNR staff. I'm also pleased to announce for

the first time today that we've extended the window of applications for crown land sites to March 31, 2006. In addition, MNR has released an Internet-based Ontario wind resource atlas. This is one

of the most comprehensive wind energy maps in the world.

However, wind power isn't the only source of renewable energy in our province. MNR is also actively reviewing proposals for water power facilities across

Ontario. Just recently, Hydromega Services became the first applicant from the ministry's competitive site release process to be awarded the opportunity to pursue the required approvals to

construct and operate a water power facility on the Kapuskasing River.

ILLEGAL TAXI OPERATORS

Mr. John O'Toole (Durham): My question is also to the Minister of Transportation. Minister, as you know, hundreds of very frustrated cab

drivers were demonstrating before the Legislature today, and I hope you took the time to listen to their concerns. They're concerned about

section 4 of Bill 169. You know that this does not level

the playing field between the taxi operators and the airport limousine operators. Minister, in that bill, you fine those hard-working drivers as much as $20,000 for a violation -- unconscionable

disrespect for hard-working people.

We put forward an amendment that would help to solve this problem. It was done, Minister, in goodwill. It wouldn't change a word of the bill. All it asks you

to do is to not proclaim

section 4 of Bill 169 and to deal with it under the Municipal Act. Minister, will you do that out of respect for those hard-working taxi drivers whom you aren't listening

to?

Hon. Harinder S. Takhar (Minister of Transportation): As I said before, this issue is a province-wide issue. This issue is about public

safety. It's about dealing with our tourism and so on.

Let me say that I had the opportunity to meet with Ontario's chiefs of police this morning. I spoke with Donna Moody. She is the deputy chief of police for

Niagara region, and she was in the House earlier. This is what she told me: She said that this issue has been growing; it is becoming serious. It started with one town, and now it has spread to

three municipalities in Niagara region. We need to deal with the issue.

I also want to make very clear that Bill 169 actually applies to the whole province. It's not for Peel only; it's not for Ottawa only; it's not for Toronto

only. It makes the playing field even in the whole of Ontario. By doing that, we have made scooping illegal in this province, which means that people who don't have a valid licence will not be able

to pick --

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Thank you. Supplementary.

Mr. O'Toole: Minister, I'm disappointed, along with the cab drivers in Ontario. You're simply miscommunicating the information on the

scooping. This isn't levelling the playing field. This bill enshrines, on your behalf -- and I hate to go here, but you have a debt to pay. Some $200,000 was raised from that event for Dalton

McGuinty. I have the citation here, Minister. I'm asking you to do the honourable thing. Simply declare to the House today and to the taxi drivers of this province that you will not give royal

assent to

section 4 of Bill 169. You know that tomorrow we're debating this bill. John Tory and our government think there are many good things in that bill. You can win here by listening to this

party, as well as David Miller, who supports John Tory's position on this.

The Speaker: The question has been asked.

Hon. Mr. Takhar: I am amazed that the previous government had nine years to deal with this issue, and they didn't do anything about it. Now

they are objecting to a real public concern issue that we are addressing in this House. We are taking this issue seriously. We want to ensure that the tourists coming to the province and our cities

and travelling are getting into properly licensed cabs. That is why the fine for taxi scooping will rise from $300 to $20,000. This issue is about public safety. This issue applies throughout this

province, and this government is absolutely committed to making sure that our taxi industry is protected and their concerns are heard.

PAROLE SYSTEM

Mr. Peter Kormos (Niagara Centre): I have a question to the Minister of Community Safety. Folks across Ontario want to know what you find so

compelling about Ottawa's parole system. Is it the generous and early release rate or is it the day trips to amusement parks?

Hon. Monte Kwinter (Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services): I'm sure the member regrets the fact that he sort of pitched this

question that has already been asked, so I'll give him the same answer. We're looking at all ways that we can in our ministry to provide effective, safe services for the people of Ontario. When you

consider that on any given day 56,000 offenders are in the community under the Ontario parole and early release program, of those, only 130 are on parole.

There are only three provinces in Canada that have separate parole systems. I have an obligation and a responsibility to take a look at that issue to see

whether or not there are efficiencies without in any way compromising public safety. We have not made that decision, but we are certainly looking at that and many other ways that we can provide

safe communities for the people of Ontario, but we're also mindful of the fact that we have to get efficiencies.

Mr. Kormos: Minister, you know that Ontario's probation and parole officers think it's dangerous to transfer probation and parole

responsibility over to the feds. We learned today that Ontario's chiefs of police think it's dangerous to hand probation and parole over to the feds. If you don't want to listen to Ontario's

probation and parole officers, professionals who have served this province well, why won't you at least listen to chiefs of police?

Hon. Mr. Kwinter: In fact, I do listen to the chiefs of police. I've met with them already once today, and I'll be meeting with them right

after this meeting. But I want to stress to you again, which is really important, that there is confusion when you talk about the federal parole system, which has responsibility for all offenders

who have been sentenced to at least two years and up. This is where you get your serious offenders. In Ontario, nobody is in our facilities who has been sentenced to any more than two years less a

day. The average length of stay in our facilities is 66 days.

You're trying to portray that one of these offenders, if they get out on parole and they have 66 days in their sentence, is suddenly going to be putting the

people of Ontario at risk. Now, I am not in any way demeaning or releasing the idea that there is a need to provide incarceration for those people who have committed a crime. But you have to

understand, the people who are in our custody have been sentenced to two years less a day. We are --

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Thank you.

FEDERAL-PROVINCIAL

FISCAL POLICIES

Ms. Monique M. Smith (Nipissing): My question is for the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs and minister responsible for democratic

renewal. Minister, I know that you and the Premier are leading our government's campaign to narrow the $23-billion gap between what Ontarians contribute to the federal government and what they

receive in federal spending. I appreciated your coming to North Bay to speak to our municipal representatives -- who included the mayor of Chisholm, the mayor of Powassan, city of North Bay

representatives and various representatives from our chamber of commerce -- about this issue and how it personally affects each resident of Nipissing.

A new report released yesterday by the independent Institute for Competitiveness and Prosperity is just the latest of several independent reports with findings

that support our campaign to reduce the $20-billion gap. Could you comment on the institute's findings and how these impact on your campaign?

Hon. Marie Bountrogianni (Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, minister responsible for democratic renewal): I would like to thank the

member from Nipissing for her excellent question. I really enjoyed my visit to her riding on September 30 and was pleased that the North Bay and District Chamber of Commerce and the municipal

council were so receptive to our message about the importance of addressing the gap.

Yesterday's report by the institute is yet another third-party report that supports our campaign to narrow the $23-billion gap. Three separate reports by TD

Bank, the Bank of Nova Scotia and CIBC have documented the existence of the gap and the need to address it, as has the Ontario Chamber of Commerce, the Association of Municipalities of Ontario, all

three parties of the Legislature and many others. This report is another interesting analysis of the fiscal gap, and I certainly welcome their support for our campaign, because I'm sure we all

agree, Mr. Hampton, that what's good for Ontario is good for Canada.

Ms. Smith: Thank you, Minister. We certainly enjoyed hosting you in North Bay and Mattawa.

I know the North Bay city council and our local chamber have indicated their support for the need to narrow the gap and make investments in Ontario that will

allow our province to continue to be the economic engine of Canada. I did notice, however, that while the IPAC report recognizes that there is a substantial gap, they used the figure of $16 billion

rather than $23 billion. Can you explain to the House today the difference between the numbers that IPAC has used and those of your own findings?

Hon. Mrs. Bountrogianni: Thank you, and that's a very good question. Actually, the institute's report agrees that our number is a good number,

a good estimate of the overall difference between federal revenues and expenditures in Ontario, but we used two different methodologies. That is why we have two different numbers.

It is important to note that the institute used a narrower set of data than we did in assessing the gap. For example, our $23-billion gap estimate includes

Ontario's contribution to the federal surplus, which is significant, and our province's share of transfers to non-residents through foreign aid and defence spending, which is significant. The

institute's report excludes those areas, and that accounts for the difference between the two numbers.

But what's important here is that yet another report, another institute, agrees that there's a fiscal imbalance between Ontario and the federal government. I

welcome all members of this House to support this campaign when representing their constituents in this great province.

INFECTIOUS DISEASE CONTROL

Mr. Toby Barrett (Haldimand-Norfolk-Brant): One and a half years ago, I raised the issue of H5N1, avian flu. The then Minister of Agriculture

said in Hansard the next day, "I think it is inappropriate for anyone to fearmonger about the situation that's out there." Acting Premier, do you feel that raising the issue of bird flu is

fearmongering?

Hon. Gerry Phillips (Minister of Government Services): The appropriate person to ask is the Minister of Agriculture.

Hon. Leona Dombrowsky (Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs): I would say to the honourable member, who has identified an issue

that is very much in the news, that I do appreciate the opportunity to talk to the House about how our government considers these matters, which are beyond our borders at the present time. The

honourable member would know that our Premier established the chief veterinarian for Ontario, who has the responsibility to ensure that the food safety practices we have in the province are

effective, current and up to date.

As a result of media reports about events that are happening in other countries, on other continents, I have asked the chief veterinarian to review the

practices we have to ensure that the food safety programs we have in place will in fact continue to ensure that we have a very solid food safety system in Ontario. The chief veterinarian will also

bring a report to the chief medical officer of health in Ontario.

Mr. Barrett: Acting Premier, you may or may not want to refer this one to the Minister of Agriculture. I have another quote from April 15,

2004: "I think it is very unfortunate that we are fearmongering in this province." This is from your Minister of Agriculture of the day.

Acting Premier, I continue to raise this issue. Number one, is bird flu fearmongering? Does your government have a plan? We're not talking about food safety,

by the way. As I asked a year and a half ago, where would the birds be disposed of, if necessary? We know Michigan is not going to take them.

Hon. Mrs. Dombrowsky: If I may share with the honourable member, food safety and animal safety are all part of the same program. We have the

HACCP program in the province of Ontario, which is the hazard analysis critical control points program, so we know our producers on farms and processors are following safety measures to ensure that

food in Ontario is safe. We have the establishment by the Premier of the chief veterinarian. I have asked the chief veterinarian to review all the policies we have in place at the present time and

also to set up a regular reporting program with the medical officer of health in Ontario.

We believe we have a strong food safety and health protection program in place. We believe it is important to be vigilant, and that is what we're doing.

NATIONAL CHILD

BENEFIT SUPPLEMENT

Mr. Michael Prue (Beaches-East York): My question is to the Minister of Community and Social Services. Yesterday was the National Day of

Action to End Child Poverty in Canada. Thousands of parents who receive social assistance and ODSP benefits have to give their baby bonus money back to you. Minister, do you think your actions of

continuing to take money from the children of recipients of welfare and ODSP is helping to eradicate poverty, or are you merely contributing to it?

Hon. Sandra Pupatello (Minister of Community and Social Services, minister responsible for women's issues): I appreciate the question today,

but I have to admit that as the critic in your portfolio I was surprised you were not asking this question yesterday, which was on the day we are celebrating moving away from poverty here in

Ontario.

Let me address this issue specifically. The member of the opposition knows that from the moment we became the government, we changed the policy. All increases

from the federal government in the national child benefit are being released and left with families. In our first year of government, that was a $7-million benefit to families. In the second year,

it was a $25-million benefit to families. In addition, I know the member opposite recognizes the collegial approach we are taking to the issues of poverty.

Mr. Prue: Madam Minister, the reality is that people on ODSP and welfare are actually worse off today under your government than they were

under the government of Mike Harris. You should be ashamed of that. We need to know -- we needed to know yesterday, but we ran out of time, unfortunately.

Hon. George Smitherman (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): Because it's a low priority for you.

Mr. Prue: No, it isn't a low priority. It's the long questions and the long answers you continually gave on this auspicious day to end child

poverty.

Will you commit to end the clawback? There was nothing in the throne speech. Will you do it?

Hon. Ms. Pupatello: I find it strange that you should speak about priorities to me. You are the last on the list on the questions today in the

House. If it was that important, I would expect your leader to be asking these questions. For our party, let me tell you, shame on you for suggesting for a moment that our government is anything

like our predecessors. The member opposite will know that for the first time in history, our Ontario government is working with our federal colleagues. It has resulted in a housing agreement. It

has resulted in a child care agreement. It has resulted in those elements that have everything to do with how working people need to live. And for those who aren't working, for those who are on

social assistance, we increased, for the first time in 12 years, in our first budget -- in addition, we have brought in landmark and symbolic changes to finally show some dignity for the people who

are on our system in Ontario.

We will do more in our next budget and the one after that.

PETITIONS

PROPERTY TAXATION

Mr. John O'Toole (Durham): "To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas recreational trailers kept at parks and campgrounds in Ontario are being assessed by the Municipal Property Assessment Corp. (MPAC) and are subject to

property taxes; and

"Whereas owners of these trailers are seasonal and occasional residents who contribute to the local tourism economy without requiring significant municipal

services; and

"Whereas the added burden of this taxation will make it impossible for many families of modest income to afford their holiday sites at parks and

campgrounds;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, respectfully petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the tax not be imposed in 2004" and 2005, "and that no such tax be introduced without consultation with owners of the trailers and trailer parks,

municipal governments, businesses, the tourism sector and other stakeholders."

I am pleased to sign this on behalf of my constituents and those hard-working families in Ontario being dealt a serious blow.

MUNICIPAL RESTRUCTURING

Mr. Michael Prue (Beaches-East York): I have a petition that reads as follows:

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas Dalton McGuinty, MPP, as leader of the official opposition, made the following commitment: `I have committed that a Liberal government will ensure a

binding referendum is held to allow local citizens to determine whether or not to dismantle the amalgamated city'; and

"Whereas, in the interest of true democracy, the Minister of Municipal Affairs put the following question to the voters of the city of Kawartha Lakes: `Are you

in favour of a return to the previous municipal model of government with an upper-tier and 16 lower-tier municipalities?'; and

"Whereas the voters, by a clear majority on a provincially mandated ballot, answered in the affirmative; and

"Whereas the council of the city of Kawartha Lakes has demanded that the province of Ontario honour the results of the 2003 election as it pertains to the

minister's question;

"The undersigned demand that the Legislative Assembly of Ontario act to honour the commitment made by Dalton McGuinty and to respect the will of the people as

expressed in a democratic vote, and restore the former municipal structure as stated in the minister's question."

I am in agreement and would sign the petition as well.

CREDIT VALLEY HOSPITAL

Mr. Bob Delaney (Mississauga West): I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly from the community in western Mississauga with regard to

Credit Valley Hospital, and it reads as follows:

"Whereas, on August 22, 2005, the government of Ontario, through the Ministries of Health and Long-Term Care and Public Infrastructure Renewal, announced that

the Credit Valley Hospital's phase 2 expansion project will proceed, with construction starting in 2007, and remain publicly owned, publicly controlled, publicly funded and publicly accountable;

and

"Whereas the new A and H blocks at Credit Valley Hospital will dramatically improve service and care to the approximately 4,800 babies delivered each year at

the Credit Valley Hospital, improving a facility designed to handle 2,700 births annually; and

"Whereas the expanded capacity will expedite the movement of acutely ill admitted emergency patients on to a nursing unit where they will be cared for in a

timely and professional manner, decrease wait times for surgical patients requiring in-patient care, and also motivate local donors to support our community's hospital;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the Credit Valley Hospital, its staff, patients, donors and community thank the Ministries of Health and Long-Term Care and Public Infrastructure Renewal

for the government of Ontario's solid commitment to the care and well-being of the growing municipalities served by the Credit Valley Hospital in western Mississauga."

I'm very pleased to affix my signature to this petition. I agree with it wholeheartedly, and I'll ask Andrew to carry it for me.

SERVICES FOR THE

DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

Mr. Ernie Hardeman (Oxford): I have here a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario, signed by a great number of my constituents and by

constituents in neighbouring ridings:

"Whereas, without appropriate support, people who have an intellectual disability are often unable to participate effectively in community life and are

deprived of the benefits of society enjoyed by other citizens; and

"Whereas quality supports are dependent on the ability to attract and retain qualified workers; and

"Whereas the salaries of workers who provide community-based supports and services are up to 25% less than salaries paid to those doing the same work in

government-operated services and other sectors;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to address, as a priority, funding to the community agencies in the developmental services

sector to address the critical underfunding of staff salaries and ensure that people who have an intellectual disability continue to receive quality supports and services that they require in order

to live meaningful lives within their community."

I affix my signature, as I agree with the petition.

MACULAR DEGENERATION

Mr. Kim Craitor (Niagara Falls): I'm pleased to present this petition to the Legislative Assembly on behalf of my riding of Niagara Falls, and

thank Ray Wilson, Nicole Taylor, Bernadette Secco and many others for signing it. The petition reads as follows:

"Whereas the government of Ontario's health insurance plan covers treatments for one form of macular degeneration -- wet -- and there are other forms of

macular degeneration -- dry -- that are not covered;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"There are thousands of Ontarians who suffer from macular degeneration, resulting in the loss of sight if treatment is not pursued. Treatment cost for this

disease is astronomical" for most individuals "and adds a financial burden to their lives. Their only alternative is loss of sight. We believe the government of Ontario should cover the treatment

for all forms of macular degeneration through the Ontario health insurance program."

I'm pleased to affix my signature to this petition.

AUTISM TREATMENT

Mr. Frank Klees (Oak Ridges): I present a petition on behalf of thousands of parents who were promised by Dalton McGuinty that if he became

Premier, he would extend funding for autism to children beyond the age of six. The petition reads as follows:

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas children with autism who have reached the age of six years are no longer being discharged from their preschool autism program; and

"Whereas these children should be getting the best special education possible in the form of applied behaviour analysis (ABA) within the school system; and

"Whereas there are approximately 700 preschool children with autism across Ontario who are required to wait indefinitely for placement in the program, and

there are also countless school-age children that are not receiving the support they require in the school system; and

"Whereas this situation has an impact on the families, extended families and friends of all of these children; and

"Whereas, as stated on the Web site for the Ministry of Children and Youth Services, `IBI can make a significant difference in the life of a child with autism.

Its objective is to decrease the frequency of challenging behaviours, build social skills and promote language development';

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to fund the treatment of IBI for all preschool children awaiting services. We also petition

the Legislature of Ontario to fund an education program in the form of ABA in the school system."

I affix my signature to the petition.

MUNICIPAL RESTRUCTURING

Ms. Andrea Horwath (Hamilton East): I'm very proud to be able to put forward this petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario. It reads as

follows:

"Whereas, in the interest of true democracy, the Minister of Municipal Affairs put the following question to the voters of the city of Kawartha Lakes: `Are you

in favour of a return to the previous municipal model of government with an upper-tier and 16 lower-tier municipalities?'; and

"Whereas the voters, by a clear majority on a provincially mandated ballot, answered in the affirmative;

"The undersigned demand that the Legislative Assembly of Ontario act to respect the will of the people as expressed in a democratic vote, and restore the

former municipal structure as stated in the minister's question."

I present this petition on behalf of all those people who signed it.

REGIONAL CENTRES FOR THE

DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

Mr. Frank Klees (Oak Ridges): This petition that I'm going to read into the record is signed by Christine and Dieter Bressel of Markham,

Ontario. It reads as follows:

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas Dalton McGuinty and his Liberal government were elected based on their promise to rebuild public services in Ontario;

"Whereas the Minister of Community and Social Services has announced plans to close Huronia Regional Centre, home to people with developmental disabilities,

many of whom have multiple diagnoses and severe problems that cannot be met in the community;

"Whereas closing Huronia Regional Centre will have a devastating impact on residents with developmental disabilities, their families, the developmental

services sector and the economies of the local communities; and

"Whereas Ontario could use the professional staff and facilities of Huronia Regional Centre to extend specialized services, support and professional training

to many more clients who live in the community, in partnership with families and community agencies;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to direct the government to keep Huronia Regional Centre, home to people with developmental

disabilities, open, and to transform them into `centres of excellence' to provide specialized services and support to Ontarians with developmental needs, no matter where they live."

I'm pleased to affix my signature to this petition.

FALLSVIEW CASINO

Mr. Kim Craitor (Niagara Falls): I'm pleased to present this petition to the House on behalf of my riding of Niagara Falls.

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the Falls Management Group made numerous commitments to the city of Niagara Falls when it was awarded the Fallsview Casino contract in 1998" by the

previous government;

The residents of Niagara Falls state the following:

"Niagara Falls residents are still waiting for the on-site amenities and the off-site attractors" promised. "We believe that the government of Ontario should

ensure that all promises made at the time of the awarding of the contract" by the previous government "be fulfilled" to the residents of Niagara Falls.

I'm pleased to affix my signature to this petition and submit it.

MUNICIPAL RESTRUCTURING

Mr. Rosario Marchese (Trinity-Spadina): "To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas Dalton McGuinty, MPP, as leader of the official opposition, made the following commitment: `I have committed that a Liberal government will ensure a

binding referendum is held to allow local citizens to determine whether or not to dismantle the amalgamated city'; and

"Whereas, in the interest of true democracy, the Minister of Municipal Affairs put the following question to the voters of the city of Kawartha Lakes: `Are you

in favour of a return to the previous municipal model of government, with an upper tier and 16 lower-tier municipalities?'; and

"Whereas the voters, by a clear majority on a provincially mandated ballot, answered in the affirmative; and

"Whereas the council of the city of Kawartha Lakes has demanded that the province of Ontario honour the results of the 2003 election as it pertains to the

minister's question;

"The undersigned demand that the Legislative Assembly of Ontario act to honour the commitment made by Dalton McGuinty and to respect the will of the people as

expressed in a democratic vote and restore the former municipal structure as stated in the minister's question."

I support this petition and I am signing my name to this.

HOSPITAL SERVICES

Ms. Shelley Martel (Nickel Belt): I have a petition that's been signed by thousands of people in the Ottawa-Renfrew area opposed to P3

hospitals. It reads as follows:

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas all hospitals since the inception of public medicare in Canada have been non-profit;

"Whereas `public-private partnership' (P3) hospitals turn over democratic community control to international investors, making a public service into a

commodity sold for profit;

"Whereas worldwide evidence is that private (P3) hospitals lead to doctor, nurse, staff and bed cuts in hospitals in order to make room for profit taking,

consultant fees, higher borrowing costs and outrageous executive salaries;

"Whereas private (P3) hospitals hide information about the use of tax dollars by claiming `commercial secrecy' when they privatize public institutions;

"Whereas the higher costs, user fees, two-tier services and culture of private (P3) hospitals risk the future sustainability of our public medicare system;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"We call on the government of Ontario to stop all current and future `public-private partnership' (P3) hospital deals and return full ownership, operation,

management and delivery of hospital services to non-profit hands and, further, to develop a plan to fund new hospitals through public financing" -- just like Dalton McGuinty promised -- "clearly

excluding the privatization of hospital services."

I agree with the petitioners. I've affixed my signature to this.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

THRONE SPEECH DEBATE

Resuming the debate adjourned on October 17, 2005, on the amendment to the motion for an address in reply to the speech of His Honour the Lieutenant Governor

at the opening of the session.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): The leader of the third party.

Mr. Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): It's my honour and privilege today to respond on behalf of New Democrats to the speech from the

throne.

Before I begin, Speaker, I want to congratulate you on your recent election.

I also want to extend my best wishes to MPPs from all parties as we begin this new session of the Ontario Parliament.

I think we all recognize that Ontario holds limitless opportunities for the people who live here, for all of us who have chosen Ontario as our home. It's a

potential for prosperity that Ontario families