May 17,

2010 RESOURCE

COMMITTEE

Pursuant to Standing Order 68, Mr. Kevin Pollard, MHA for Baie Verte-Springdale,

replaces Mr. Jim Baker, MHA for Labrador West.

The Committee met at 6:00 p.m. in the Assembly Chamber.

CHAIR (Harding): We welcome you back as we reconvene the Estimates debate

for the Women's Policy Office.

We have one replacement; Mr. Pollard is replacing Mr. Baker. Apart from that

okay there is one change.

MS MACLELLAN: Melissa MacLeod, our Communications Specialist, is here for

the Women's Policy Office instead of Linda Vaughan, our Finance Director.

CHAIR: Okay, thank you.

Ms Jones, do you want to begin now?

MS JONES: Yes, I can begin.

I am just not sure today, under

section 2.7.02. there was $50,000 more spent

on the Provincial Advisory Council last year than was budgeted. Can you tell me

what that money was used for because it is not budgeted this year, or at least

the numbers are down?

MS DUNDERDALE: It was a severance requirement. We had an employee leave

and that covered off severance.

MS JONES: Okay, for the Provincial Advisory Council?

MS DUNDERDALE: Council on the Status of Women.

MS JONES: Okay.

Did you fill the position after they left?

MS DUNDERDALE: The position is filled.

MS JONES: Okay.

Where did you say the money for the Violence Prevention Initiative comes

from, or does that come out of the Department of Health, or is it in here?

MS DUNDERDALE: It comes under 2.7.01.; all of the headings the whole way

down through all include initiatives for VPI. It is all embedded in those

headings.

MS JONES: Okay.

Today you were talking about the numbers or the percentage of violence

against women has not gone down.

MS DUNDERDALE: It has not gone down, no.

MS JONES: How many years has the campaign been ongoing now?

MS DUNDERDALE: Which campaign?

MS JONES: The Violence Prevention Initiative campaign.

MS DUNDERDALE: We are coming into our sixth year now fifth year.

MS JONES: Okay, five years.

Has there been any review of the program or

MS DUNDERDALE: There will be.

MS JONES: - the initiatives to see if it is working or not working, or

maybe has no impact on the fact that the stats have not gone down. I am not

saying it is not effective, I am just wondering if there has been any evaluation

of it.

MS DUNDERDALE: There will be now. This is a six-year initiative, and so

the whole evaluation will begin next year.

MS JONES: Can you provide us with the numbers for the last five years

the statistics?

MS DUNDERDALE: On violence?

MS JONES: Yes.

MS DUNDERDALE: Absolutely.

MS JONES: Okay.

One of the questions that come up often from the women's centres - that, of

course, you guys would fund and do all kinds of work - is with regard to

affordable housing. Is this something that the Women's Policy Office has looked

at in terms of what is an acceptable strategy to try to approach affordable

housing for women in the Province, especially women who live in poverty and

violent situations that they need housing on an emergency basis and so on?

MS DUNDERDALE: Absolutely. The Women's Policy Office is engaged with the

women's centres, first of all. In terms of relaying that information back, not

only to me, as minister, we work then particularly with the Department of

Transportation and Works who is responsible for Newfoundland and Labrador

Housing.

In this year's Budget, there is over $94 million that is going to the

Newfoundland and Labrador Housing Corporation to, first of all, improve our own

stock. I think, certainly as the Minister Responsible for the Status of Women,

it was extremely important to me that, as a government, we make investment in

our own housing stock. It was a real debate as to whether we went into providing

more housing or we deal with some of the deficits we have in our current

housing. There had been many, many years when there had not been any investment

at all. We built the houses, and we ignored them. That is something that we have

been trying to correct, and $94 million is gone into that stock this year.

We also support non-profits like Stella Burry, for example, who do non-profit

housing, Marguerite's Place, those kinds of things. So, there are all kinds of

initiatives that are going on and significant amounts of money going into social

housing. It is a matter of degree in terms of what you are able to put in

compared to the need. There is always pressure on that piece to do more.

MS JONES: Have you done any evaluation I know it is one thing for

women's centres to bring up the issue or any group to bring up the issue. I am

not undervaluing the fact that it is a serious problem, but I am just wondering

if there are any statistics that you guys have compiled around it. How

significant is this housing shortage that they talk about? Are there any facts

or information to support it?

MS DUNDERDALE: Our department is not charged with that responsibility.

That falls more under Transportation and Works who is responsible in terms of

housing. It is a concern to us because we need second stage housing and so on

around our transition houses. When we have women in transition houses and they

decide not to return home, then they have to find another place to live.

In many places in the Province that first choice for them is often

Newfoundland and Labrador Housing. That is why that is certainly our priority at

this point to make sure that housing is of an acceptable standard for residents

in the Province.

MS JONES: The government is doing a new act, the Child, Youth and Family

Services Act. Has the Women's Policy Office been asked for any advice or on

that? Did you participate in the consultations or submit any kind of brief or

input into that?

MS DUNDERDALE: Women's Policy Office has been fully engaged in that piece

of legislation, as well as all of the Status of Women Councils in the Province,

the Provincial Advisory Council on the Status of Women, and the RCAs of the

Violence Prevention Initiative.

There has been a very, very broad consultation across the Province, as well

as bringing representatives of all of those groups into St. John's for a daylong

session on the act itself. There have been very broad and thorough consultations

on the act.

MS JONES: Okay.

One of the issues that came up in the last year for us was women who were

contacting us because they had adults in their care with disabilities, either

sons or daughters in most cases. They found it very difficult to be able to work

outside of the home without having proper care or supports for them. They could

not afford the home care because they were on minimum wage jobs and things like

this.

Is this an issue that has come to the attention of the Women's Policy Office,

either through your advisory groups, or women's centres, or anything of that

nature?

MS DUNDERDALE: Yes. We have not had direct representation on that issue,

but we have supported the Provincial Advisory Council on the Status of Women who

has raised that issue in terms of the Poverty Reduction Strategy. We support

that within that strategy.

MS JONES: Okay.

Another issue that and I have to confess, I am not very familiar with this

issue at all, but it was a couple of calls that we received in terms of women

who were on Income Support, they had disabilities, and they were pursuing

post-secondary education. Of course, they had to take a student loan because

they were pursuing it. As a result of it, they lost some of their Income Support

and benefits. I do not know if that is an issue that you have been made aware

of.

MS DUNDERDALE: No.

MS JONES: Who would we direct that to because we think it warrants

looking at -

MS DUNDERDALE: Poverty Reduction Strategy.

MS JONES: So, who is that?

MS DUNDERDALE: HRLE, Minister Sullivan.

MS JONES: Are you guys still asked I know one of the roles of the

Women's Policy Office was to be a women's equality lens into government policy

and so on. Do you still perform that role? Is that part of what you do?

MS DUNDERDALE: Absolutely. There is no paper that goes before Cabinet

that does not have the WPO gender lens go on it. Certainly, myself and the

former minister and other women in Cabinet bring that to the Cabinet table as

well in the formation of policy. The WPO is working on a new training program

for delivery to the public service.

I know that when I worked for the Provincial Advisory Council on the Status

of Women, I came to government about ten years ago for gender analysis training.

As a lifelong feminist and somebody who has worked in the community for years

and years, I did not understand one thing that was put forward to me. I

guarantee you if I did not understand it, some of the people who were working

for government, even though they were there with the best of intentions, were in

way over their head.

So, we need to revamp that, and we have done a significant piece of that work

so that we are delivering a program that is understandable and meeting its

objectives, which we certainly did not have up until the time that I had done

that course.

MS JONES: If, for example, you apply the women's equality lens to

legislation, or policies, or decisions of government and, as a woman, I feel or

someone feels out there that this was not applied appropriately or whatever is

there some kind of an appeal process? How do you get that relooked at through

your department? Is there any process to do that?

MS DUNDERDALE: For example, when the Cabinet Paper comes through, it is

part of the analysis that is provided. Along with the Cabinet Paper, is a view

from the Rural Secretariat, for example, from maybe Treasury Board, or an

economic or social policy committee from the Women's Policy Office, or the

and those issues are squarely there and identified and debated and discussed and

decisions made. We take responsibility, obviously, for the decisions we make in

terms policy and programming that we deliver.

MS JONES: Is there any new studies or new areas that the Women's Policy

Office is looking at in the next year?

MS DUNDERDALE: Well, we have laid out our direction in our business plan,

and that is a public document. We advance all the areas: the antiviolence piece,

training within government, and work with our Aboriginal people.

One of the biggest pieces that we are working on is our women's employment

plans with Natural Resources. In terms of the Hebron project, we saw a gender

equity and diversity clause that was first in the country, and probably the

first in the world where companies had to agree to very specific goals that had

to be achieved around women's employment and training and so on. We do that in

oil development. We are doing it now. We did it in Hebron. We have done it in

Hibernia South and White Rose. We have done it in Long Harbour and we will do it

with the Lower Churchill. So this has become - we are starting now to do it

around some of our mining pieces and so on. This is very, very important to us.

That is a major piece of work that we have undertaken. We have been very, very

successful with it at this point in time.

We are also working with Aboriginal women, and that is extremely important.

Especially for women on the Coast, Inuit women, because they tend to be very

isolated and cut off from opportunities to network and to share information and

so on. So, we are trying to do a very targeted piece of work to address that

deficit with them. We are funding, this year, Newfoundland's Aboriginal women

and providing funding to them for the very first time for their organization so

that they can expand and do a specific piece of work.

Last year, we funded the multicultural women's organization for the very

first time. I must say, the feedback from them has been so positive in what they

have been able to do in the last year now that they have sufficient funds to

organize themselves. So they are the major themes. The specifics of that are

laid out in our business plan which is, as I said, a public document.

MS JONES: Just getting back to 2.7.01. again, you guys under spent in

Salaries, you under spent in Transportation and also in Professional Services. I

am just wondering, was there something that you were going to do that you did

not do under that heading? Transportation and Communications had a very high

budget but there is only like half of it spent. I am just wondering why that

was?

MS MACLELLAN: That under expenditure had to do with the project we are

doing with the Department of Health and Community Services where we are

developing a training package on violence prevention for older adults in the

Province. As the project evolved we realized we needed more modules, the

curriculum developed. We mentioned that this morning. We will start delivery

this year on it.

MS JONES: Yes, okay.

How much is the Violence Prevention Initiative budget, because your

department put out four press releases last year, one in February, one in June,

one in September and one in November. In February you stated you were putting in

$9.2 million. In June you said it was $12 million. In September you said it was

$10 million and in November you said it was $12 million again over the six

years. So I am not sure which of those numbers are right, but that was just four

releases in 2009.

MS DUNDERDALE: It will be $12 million for the whole six years.

MS JONES: It will be $12 million for the full six. Okay. You might want

to put that in all of your statements.

MS DUNDERDALE: Well, the money keeps increasing as we find new projects

and we find new money to fund them. So the amount has gone up.

MS JONES: Yes, it went down though in September compared to June, that is

why I found it confusing.

I do not have any other questions.

CHAIR: Thank you, Ms Jones.

Ms Michael.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Fewer questions than I thought because Ms Jones has covered a couple that I

was wanting to ask about, but I just want to push one a little bit further and

that is the one with regard to input in policy. I understand what happens when

it is something new that is coming and you have Cabinet documents, et cetera,

but if there were a policy that were affecting women adversely, how would you

deal with that if it is a policy that is already in place?

I am going to use an example because it is a real example, and I used it with

the Minister of HRLE for another reason when I doing that one. A single parent,

woman, employed, and while she is employed has child care subsidy, becomes

unemployed so is on EI but is potentially going to have another job through I

forget which program it is. One of the programs anyway, where she could get a

job where the employer would get a subsidy to hire low-income women, but her

process became completely slowed down nobody knows really why that happened

by months. The employer was three months waiting to get approval. Her child care

was stopped and finally now the placement has happened. She started this past

Monday but now has to wait a whole month before her child care can start up

again. It seems to me that there needs to be and I said this to the minister.

There needs to be a coming together of two or three policies there looking at

the individual. If you know that she is on that track - it is not that she just

became unemployed and said okay, that is it. She immediately was trying to get

employment but the child care had to stop because she was not employed. Would

you deal with that as WPO in talking to HRLE about that?

MS DUNDERDALE: Yes, I would deal with that as the Minister

MS MICHAEL: You would?

MS DUNDERDALE: Responsible for the Status of Women. When those kinds of

situations are brought to my attention, then I go back to the relevant

ministries and see if I cannot resolve what the issue is, and working with the

other ministers, resolving: Do we have a policy piece here that we need to

address?

MS MICHAEL: Right.

MS DUNDERDALE: In terms of these kinds of things being brought to our

attention, how we deal with it, not only do we get them not so much through

the WPO, but through the minister.

MS MICHAEL: Right.

MS DUNDERDALE: People will contact me directly. I also have a long

relationship with the Provincial Advisory Council on the Status of Women

MS JONES: Right.

MS DUNDERDALE: - who do this work all the time, who people will go to. I

have regular meetings with the president, who is the primary task of the

advisory council on the status of women is to advise the minister and government

on these kinds of issues. So it gets brought to my attention. We also have - the

advisory council and the WPO have regular teleconferences with all of the

women's centres throughout the Province, and that happens almost on a monthly

basis. So that is another channel to bring those kinds of concerns.

Plus, all of our staff, a number of them are en route and the rest of them

will leave tomorrow morning to go out to Corner Brook for the AGM of all the

women's councils, their thirty-fifth anniversary this year. I cannot go because

the House is open, but we have really good working relationships and good lines

of communication with all of these advocacy groups in the Province. So there are

a lot of different ways that information gets to us.

MS MICHAEL: Well, I am going to be following this policy up. Actually,

after the Estimates the minister did have Roxie contact me to say that she would

be really happy they would like, not only be happy to, they really want to sit

down and talk about this case, just as a not to solve the case, the case is

taken care of. That was not why I brought it up, but to look at it from a policy

perspective, what went wrong. I will let you know what happens after that, from

that policy perspective.

MS DUNDERDALE: Absolutely.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you.

MS DUNDERDALE: Because sometimes it is the particular case that will

demonstrate the gap where, unless you had it, you probably would not be able to

identify it.

MS MICHAEL: Exactly, and that is why I brought it up to Minister

Sullivan. I said I am not bringing this up to have a case solved, but I said I

think it just really clearly shows how there are gaps in between the different

policies that affect women, in particular.

With that, I think that is it. Thank you, Mr. Chair, because I asked most of

mine this morning.

CHAIR: Thank you very much, Ms Michael.

Any further questions from the Committee?

Okay, I will ask the Clerk now to call the subheads.

CLERK: 2.7.01.

CHAIR: 2.7.01., shall that carry?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

On motion, subhead 2.7.01 carried.

CLERK: 2.7.02.

CHAIR: 2.7.02., shall that carry?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

On motion, subhead 2.7.02 carried.

CHAIR: Shall the total carry?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

On motion, Women's Policy Office, total heads, carried.

CHAIR: Shall I report the Estimates of the Women's Policy Office carried

without amendment?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

On motion, Estimates of the Women's Policy Office carried without amendment.

CHAIR: You have the minutes of our meeting this morning, the Department

of Natural Resources. I would like to have a motion now to adopt these minutes.

MR. VERGE: (Inaudible).

CHAIR: Moved by Mr. Verge, seconded by Mr. Hunter, that the minutes from

this morning's meeting of the Department of Natural Resources be approved as

circulated.

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

On motion, minutes adopted as circulated.

CHAIR: At this time I would just like to thank the members of the

Committee, the minister and her officials, as well as the staff with the House

of Assembly.

That concludes our departmental Estimates debate for this year in Committee.

I would like to ask for a motion now to adjourn.

MR. VERGE: (Inaudible).

CHAIR: Moved by Mr. Verge.

This meeting now stands adjourned.