Manitoba Hansard — 6 May 2004 (Sitting 34B, 38th Legislature, 2nd Session)

38-2-34b

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Second Session - Thirty-Eighth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable George Hickes Speaker Vol. LV No. 34B - 1:30 p.m., Thursday, May 6, 2004

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Eighth Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation AGLUGUB, Cris The Maples N.D.P. ALLAN, Nancy, Hon. St. Vital N.D.P. ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley N.D.P. ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thom pson N.D.P. BJORNSON, Peter, Hon. Gimli N.D.P. BRICK, Marilyn St. Norbert N.D.P. CALDWELL, Drew Brandon East N.D.P. CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan N.D.P. CUMMINGS, Glen Ste. Rose P.C. DERKACH, Leonard Russell P.C. DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk N.D.P. DOER, Gary, Hon. Concordia N.D.P. DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood P.C. DYCK, Peter Pembina P.C. EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside P.C.

FAURSCHOU, David Portage la Prairie P.C. GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach P.C. HAWRANIK, Gerald Lac du Bonnet P.C. HICKES, George, Hon. Point Douglas N.D.P. IRVIN-ROSS, Kerri Fort Garry N.D.P. JENNISSEN, Gerard Flin Flon N.D.P. JHA, Bidhu Radisson N.D.P. KORZENIOWSKI, Bonnie St. James N.D.P. LAMOUREUX, Kevin Inkster Lib. LATHLIN, Oscar, Hon. The Pas N.D.P. LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. La Verendrye N.D.P. LOEWEN, John Fort Whyte P.C. MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St. Johns N.D.P. MAGUIRE, Larry Arthur-Virden P.C. MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood N.D.P. MARTINDALE, Doug Burrows N.D.P. McGIFFORD, Diane, Hon.

Lord Roberts N.D.P. MELNICK, Christine, Hon. Riel N.D.P. MIHYCHUK, MaryAnn, Hon. Minto N.D.P. MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East P.C. MURRAY, Stuart Kirkfield Park P.C. NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom Interlake N.D.P. OSWALD, Theresa Seine River N.D.P. PENNER, Jack Emerson P.C. REID, Daryl Transcona N.D.P. REIMER, Jack Southdale P.C. ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Rupertsland N.D.P. ROCAN, Denis Carman P.C. RONDEAU, Jim, Hon. Assiniboia N.D.P. ROWAT, Leanne Minnedosa P.C. SALE, Tim, Hon. Fort Rouge N.D.P. SANTOS, Conrad Wellington N.D.P. SCHELLENBERG, Harry Rossmere N.D.P. SCHULER, Ron Springfield P.C. SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St.

Boniface N.D.P. SMITH, Scott, Hon. Brandon West N.D.P. STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo P.C. STRUTHERS, Stan, Hon. Dauphin-Roblin N.D.P. TAILLIEU, Mavis Morris P.C. TWEED, Mervin Turtle Mountain P.C. WOWCHUK, Rosann, Hon. Swan River N.D.P.

1693 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Thursday, May 6, 2004 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Mr. Speaker: I would like to advise the House that the printed copies of yesterday's Hansard are not back from the printers yet, but as soon as they are available they will be provided for the members. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS PETITIONS Minimum Sitting Days for Legislative Assembly Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. The background to this petition is as follows: The Manitoba Legislature sat for only 37 days in 2003.

Manitobans expect their Government to be accountable, and the number of sitting days has a direct impact on the issue of public accountability. Manitobans expect their elected officials to be provided the opportunity to be able to hold the Government accountable. The Legislative Assembly provides the best forum for all MLAs to debate and ask questions of the Government, and it is critical that all MLAs be provided the time needed in order for them to cover constituent and party duties.

Establishing a minimum number of sitting days could prevent the government of the day from limit- ing the rights of opposition members from being able to ask questions. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba to consider recognizing the need to sit for a minimum of 80 days in any given calendar year. Signed by June Capulong, Jenny Hohne and Pablito Sarinas. Ms. Marilyn Brick (St. Norbert): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition– Mr. Speaker: Order. Okay, sorry about that.

In accordance with our Rule 132(6), when a petition is read it is deemed to be received by the House. The Winnipeg Foundation Act Ms. Marilyn Brick (St. Norbert): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. These are the reasons for the petition: The Winnipeg Foundation was originally incor- porated by

an act of the Legislature in 1921 and, although amendments have been made in the ensuing years, The Winnipeg Foundation Act no longer reflects the present-day r ealities of operating a charitable foundation. As a result, it is proposed to replace the existing act with a new act that updates the Winnipeg Foundation investment powers, empowers it to retain appropriate professional exper- tise to assist it with its investments, clarifies its ability to manage funds entrusted to it by other charitable and non-profit organizations and generally modernizes its corporate governance. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To replace The Winnipeg Foundation Act in order to: (

a) update the Winnipeg Foundation's investment powers, (

b) empower the Winnipeg Foundation to retain appropriate professional expertise to assist with its investments, (

c) clarify the Winnipeg Foundation's ability to manage funds entrusted to it by other charitable and non-profit organizations,

1694 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 6, 2004 (

d) modernize the Winnipeg Foundation's cor- porate governance. Signed by Richard Scott, chair of the board; Gregg Hanson, treasurer, and Richard L. Frost, chief executive officer. Mr. Speaker: In accordance with our Rule 132(6), when a petition is read it is deemed to be received by the House. Proposed PLA–Floodway Mr. Stuart Murray (Leader of the Official Opposition): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba.

These are the reasons for this petition: The Province of Manitoba has tabled legislation in the Legislature that may result in the $660-million expansion of the Red River Floodway by the summer of 2005. The Premier of Manitoba plans to subject all work related to the project to a Project Labour Agreement (PLA). The proposed PLA would force all employees on the project to belong to a union. Approximately 95 percent of heavy construction companies in Manitoba are currently non-unionized.

The Manitoba Heavy Co nstruction Association has indicated that the forced unionization of all employees may increase the costs of the project by $65 million.

The chair of B.C.'s 2010 Construction Leaders Taskforce has stated, "Major industrial projects built under project labour agreements from the energy sector in Alberta to o ff-shore development on the East Coast have repeatedly incurred cost overruns, labour disruptions and delays." Organizations including the Winnipeg Chamber of Commerce, the Canadian Taxpayers Federation, the Manitoba Heavy Construction Association, the Canadian Federation of Independent Business, the Merit Contractors Association of Manitoba, the Winnipeg Construction Association, the Construc- tion Association of Rural Manitoba and the Canadian Construction Association have publicly opposed the Premier's plan to turn the floodway expansion project into a union-only worksite.

Manitobans deserve an open and fair competi- tion that protects taxpayers from unnecessary costs and respects workers' democratic choice. Manitobans support the right of any company, both union and non-union, to participate in the expansion of the Red River Floodway. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request the Premier of Manitoba to consider ending his Government's forced unionization plan of companies involved with the Red River Floodway expansion.

To request the Premier of Manitoba to consider entering into discussions with business, construction and labour groups to ensure any qualified company and worker, regardless of their union status, is afforded the opportunity to bid and work on the floodway expansion project. Signed Wally Rooke, Edward Blandford, Dora Penner and others. Mr. Speaker: In accordance with our Rule 132(6), when a petition is read it is deemed to be received by the House. * (13:35) Highway 227 Mr. Ralph Eichler (Lakeside): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of anitoba.

M These are the reasons for this petition. It is unacceptable for the residents of Manitoba to travel the unsafe gravel roads of Highway 227 in the constituencies of Lakeside and Portage la Prairie. Inclement weather can make Highway 227 treacherous to all drivers. Allowing better access to Highway 227 would ease the flow of traffic on the Trans-Canada High- way.

May 6, 2004 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1695 Residences along Highway 227 are not as acces- sible to emergency services due to the nature of the current condition of the roadway. The condition of these gravel roads can cause serious damage to all vehicles, which is unaccept- able. Residents of Manitoba deserve a better rural highway infrastructure. We petition the Manitoba Legislative Assembly as follows: To request that the Minister of Transportation and Government Services to consider having High- way 227 paved from the junction of highways 248 and 227 all the way to Highway 16, the Yellowhead route.

To request the Premier of Manitoba to consider supporting said initiatives to ensure the safety of all Manitobans and all Canadians who travel along Manitoba highways. Submitted on behalf of Ryan Tully, Les Tully, Gord Robertson and others. Mr. Speaker: In accordance with our Rule 132(6), when a petition is read it is deemed to be received by the House. Proposed PLA–Floodway Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba.

These are the reasons for this petition: The Province of Manitoba has tabled legislation in the Legislature that may result in the $660-million expansion of the Red River Floodway by the summer of 2005. The Premier of Manitoba plans to subject all work related to the project to a Project Labour Agreement (PLA). The proposed PLA would force all employees on the project to belong to a union. Approximately 95 percent of heavy construction companies in Manitoba are currently non-unionized.

The Manitoba Heavy Co nstruction Association has indicated that the forced unionization of all employees may increase the costs of the project by $65 million.

The chair of B.C.'s 2010 Construction Leaders Taskforce has stated, "Major industrial projects built under project labour agreements from the energy sector in Alberta to o ff-shore development on the East Coast have repeatedly incurred cost overruns, labour disruptions and delays." Organizations including the Winnipeg Chamber of Commerce, the Canadian Taxpayers Federation, the Manitoba Heavy Construction Association, the Canadian Federation of Independent Business, the Merit Contractors Association of Manitoba, the Winnipeg Construction Association, the Construc- tion Association of Rural Manitoba and the Canadian Construction Association have publicly opposed the Premier's plan to turn the floodway expansion project into a union-only worksite.

Manitobans deserve an open and fair competi- tion that protects taxpayers from unnecessary costs and respects workers' democratic choice. Manitobans support the right of any company, both union and non-union, to participate in the expansion of the Red River Floodway. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request the Premier of Manitoba to consider ending his Government's forced unionization plan of companies involved with the Red River Floodway expansion.

To request the Premier of Manitoba to consider entering into discussions with business, construction and labour groups to ensure any qualified company and worker, regardless of their union status, is afforded the opportunity to bid and work on the floodway expansion project. This is signed by Lest er Bartel, Erna Peters, Tamara Esau and many others. Mr. Speaker: In accordance with our Rule 132(6), when a petition is read it is deemed to be received by the House.

1696 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 6, 2004 Alzheimer's Disease Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition. These are the reasons for this petition: Alzheimer's is a debilitating disease. Cholinesterase inhibitors are known to slow or even prevent the progression of Alzheimer's. The provincial government asked for the devel- opment of an Alzheimer's strategy in 2000 and was presented with nine recommendations in 2002, none of which has yet been implemented.

In the absence of a provincial Alzheimer's strategy, the Winnipeg Regional Health Authority put in place a policy in November 2003 whereby Alzheimer's patients entering personal care homes are being weaned from certain Alzheimer medica- tions in a move that the WRHA's vice-president of long-term care has refe rred to as a financial necessity. The administrative costs of the Winnipeg Regional Health Authority have more than tripled since 1999, to a total of more than $16 million a year.

In a move that amounts to two-tier medicine, the families of Alzheimer's sufferers in personal care homes may request that the drugs continue to be delivered at the family's expense. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request the Minister of Health (Mr. Chomiak) to ensure that his attempts to balance his department's finances are not at the expense of the health and well-being of seniors and other vulnerable Manitobans suffering from this debilitating disease.

To urge the Minister of Health to consider reversing his decision to deny Alzheimer's patients in personal care homes access to certain medications. To request the Minister of Health to consider implementing a provincial Alzheimer's strategy. Signed by Lenore Berscheid, Janet Taylor, Pat Kowlessar and many others. Mr. Speaker: In accordance with our Rule 132(6), when a petition is read it is deemed to be received by the House. * (13:40) TABLING OF REPORTS Hon.

Scott Smith (Minister of Industry, Economic Development and Mines): I am pleased to table the Supplementary Information for Legislative Review 2004-2005 Departmental Expenditure Estimates for the Department of Industry, Economic Development and Mines. Hon. Stan Struthers (Min ister of Conservation): I am very pleased to put forward to the House the Supplementary Information for Legislative Review for the '04-05 Departmental Expenditure Estimates concerning the Manitoba Sustainable Development Innovations Fund. MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS Mining Week Hon.

Scott Smith (Minister of Industry, Economic Development and Mines): Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to proclaim May 7– Mr. Speaker: Order. We have to make sure that there are copies to be passed around to the critics. Mr. Smith: I am very pleased to proclaim May 7 to 13 as Provincial Mining Week. I would like to draw you attention to the proclamation you have each received. It outlines the Province's commitment to our mining industry and our undestanding of the contributions this industry makes in our social and economic well-being. Mr.

Speaker, the drillcor e business card holder at your seat, I am proud to say, was crafted by staff at the Rock Lab of Industry, Economic Development and Mines. The sample of basalt from the Thompson nickel belt is typical of a drillcore obtained from an exploration in the mining development projects in the Thompson area. We have a long history of mining in Manitoba and that has contributed signifi- cantly to the economic and community developments across the province, particularly in the North. It continues to be Manitoba's second-largest primary resource industry.

May 6, 2004 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1697 I would also like to take this opportunity to recognize Manitoba's mining communities, the men and women whose ongoing hard work is key to the industry's success in Mani toba. Our Government's ongoing commitment to this industry is clear. Mr. Speaker, we have recently funded $1.4 million through the Mineral Exploration Assistance Program for 55 new exploration projects in the province. In addition, the Manitoba Mineral Exploration Tax Credit was extended to 2005 from the 2004 Budget.

Also in 2003, our department developed a community-based Prospector Training Program. The program, delivered in collaboration with the First Nations communities, Mr. Speaker, reflects the goals and objectives of the Manitoba minerals guideline. We are currently working at developing partnerships to broaden the scope and delivery of this program. It is also important to recognize the efforts that the industry has made in working proactively with stakeholders to ensure that exploration and mining are conducted in an environmentally and socially responsible manner.

Mining continues to be an important economic sector in Manitoba and many opportunities lie ahead. In closing, Mr. Speaker, I invite you to join us for the Provincial Mining Week celebrations at The Forks this weekend. The activitie s are free, so bring the whole family for a rocking good time. Mr. Ralph Eichler (Lakeside): I, too, Mr. Speaker, want to stand on this side of the House and congratulate the Government on Provincial Mining Week for May 7 to 13. Mr.

Speaker, with mining being the second- largest resource industry in the province of Manitoba with approximately a billion dollars, employing some 13 200 workers directly or indirectly and also the importance of the mining communities and those communities which are surviving on their behalf. The necessary promotion for awareness of the benefits and impacts on the industry, for information for Manitoba's informed decisions and mining activities. We on this side of the House want to encourage the partnerships between government, industry and those businesses involved. Mr.

Speaker, we would like to also congratulate TANCO Mining Corpora- tion, just north of Lac du Bonnet, the only tantalum mine in Manitoba. Also, Mr. Speaker, we would like to congratulate San Gold Resources, an aggressive company from Bissett, recently purchased the Bissett gold mine which will bring employment to the Bissett, Manigotagan areas. Congratulations to Hugh Wynne from Bissett, the owner of San Gold Resources. Thank you. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, I ask leave to speak to the minister's statement. Mr.

Speaker: Does the honourable member have leave? * (13:45) Some Honourable Members: Leave. Mr. Speaker: Leave has been granted. Mr. Gerrard: I think it is quite important that we have a week called Mining Week, that we have a week where we can pay attention to the needs of this very important industry. The last few years have not been easy years. We have seen more mines close than open.

More mining communities are having trouble and, quite frankly, it is a week that we should be paying some attention not only to mining but to how we can better support the mining industry and the mining communities because clearly under this Government they need more improved support than they are getting at the moment. Point of Order Mr. Speaker: The honourable Member for Minnedosa, on a point of order. Mrs. Leanne Ro wat (Minnedosa): Mr. Speaker, I would like to stand and do a ministerial statement on behalf of the women of Manitoba.

There was an event that occurred last night that was– An Honourable Member: It should be a member's statement. Mr. Speaker: Order. Ministerial statements are given by ministers of the Crown. The member would be more than welcome when her turn comes for a member's statement. Usually that happens some time after grievances. You would be more than welcome to do it then. The honourable Official Opposition House Leader, on a point of order.

1698 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 6, 2004 Mr. Leonard Derkach (Official Opposition House Leader): On the same point of order, or you have ruled on that one. Well, on a new point of order. Mr. Speaker: I gave her directions because the point of order was not a point of order. Point of Order Mr. Speaker: Okay, the honourable Official Opposition House Leader, on a point of order. * (13:50) Mr. Derkach: Mr. Speaker, on a point of order.

In this Legislature, as we had today quite appropriately announced by the Minister responsible for Mines, he announced the importance of celebrating an activity in this province which is noteworthy to all citizens in Manitoba. We joined him in his ministerial statement because we felt that it was important to acknowledge the work that is done by people who are building this province in the mining sector.

In the same way, women in this province are recognized for their accomplishments and their achievements and, to that end, I say it would be important for a minister, rather than standing up on a private member's statement, which some of the ministers are doing, they have the authority to be able to stand in their place as ministers and recognize people of this province who have made an extraordinary contribution to a sector of our society. Last night we celebrated the women who made a significant contribution to this province through the Women of Distinction Awards Dinner.

I think it is remiss on the minister's part not to stand in his or her place and make that announcement today as an occasion for us all to celebrate and to notify Manitobans throughout that women in this province are making important strides in the contribution they make to our society. Mr. Speaker: Order. The honourable Member for River Heights, on the same point of order. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, on this point of order.

As one of the MLAs who was there last night to celebrate the achievements of many of the women of Manitoba who have been honoured as part of the YMCA-YWCA Awards of Distinction, I think that it is very important that we recognize the women who have achieved so much. I think on this point of order that it is clearly up to the Government to decide what their priorities are. I would say to the Conservatives that they have not been the government for several years. They have to leave the priorities of the minister's statement up to the Government. Mr.

Speaker: The honourable Government House Leader, on the same point of order. Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House Leader): Mr. Speaker, on the point of order, I think it is an unfortunate use of a point of order to do this kind of grandstanding. Why this year do they want to stand up and make an issue on that? It should be noted that there are several Women of Distinction Awards. There is one in Brandon, for example. There are other awards recognizing the wonderful achievements of Manitoba women. We recognize them all and indeed later today we are recognizing the one distincti on award.

This is just a ridiculous grandstand. We recognize all Manitoba women and women of distinction from all the awards. Mr. Speaker: Order. Before presenting my ruling, I just want to remind all honourable members that when rising on a point of order, it should be to point out a breach of a rule or departure from practice of the House. Also our Order Paper is very clear and that is what we follow.

I just explained earlier what a ministerial statement was, what a member's statement was, and I would like to take this opportunity to remind all honourable members that when I have ruled on a point of order, to rise on the same point of order, you are treading on very thin ice because I do not think anybody in this House would want to be reflecting on the ruling of the Speaker. I just caution all honourable members on those grounds. The honourable member that raised the point of order does not have a point of order. * * * Mr. Speaker: We will move on and now we are at introduction of bills.

I do not see anyone standing. We will move on to introduction of guests.

May 6, 2004 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1699 * (13:55) Introduction of Guests Mr. Speaker: I would like to draw the attention of all honourable members to the public gallery where we have with us today from the Manitoba mining sector individuals from various regions in the prov- ince. These are the guests of the honourable Minister of Industry, Economic Development and Mines (Mr. Smith). Also we have in the public gallery Captain Paul Scott and Trish Scott who are from Gatineau, Québec. They are the guests of the honourable Minister of Conservation (Mr. Struthers).

Also in the public gallery we have from the Interlake Mennonite Fellowship School 33 Grades 6 to 12 students under the direction of Mr. John Elias. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable Member for the Interlake (Mr. Nevakshonoff). Also in the public gallery we have from Robertson School 51 Grades 4 and 5 students under the direction of Ms. Pam Peden and Ms. Evelyn Sutherland. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable Memb er for Burrows (Mr. Martindale). On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you here today. ORAL QUESTIONS Justice System Trial Delays Mr.

Stuart Murray (Leader of the Official Opposition): Mr. Speaker, this past March, Justice Kenneth Hanssen acquitted a 26-year-old man of robbery charges because the Crown took too long to bring this case to trial. In total, 37.5 months passed before this man's case made it to trial, and Justice Hanssen said, "There is no way that it should have taken more than two years." Justice Hanssen said, and I quote, "The 32-month delay was so long that it warrants an inquiry into its reasonableness. None of the delays that occurred were the result of the accused or his lawyer. The delay weighs against the Crown." Mr.

Speaker, this is just one case that begs the question of how widespread the problem is. Can the Premier (Mr. Doer) tell us what his Government sees as a reasonable period of time to wait before an accused goes to trial? Hon. Gord Mackintosh (M inister of Justice and Attorney General): Mr. Speaker, this is rather interesting to hear, a new-found discovery of the national challenge of court backlogs. This is a matter that has been suffered in our justice systems right across this country. I do not know how he has been so oblivious to the headlines across the country.

In fact, here in Manitoba I see, "Court backlogs, court cutbacks worry judges." Oh, 1996. What is this one here? "Delays cost dearly." Oh, 1996. Mr. Speaker, we are in a jurisdiction where at least there is now unfolding for the first time in Manitoba, a court backlog reduction project. We are working with the stakeholders to try and wrestle this problem down. Mr. Murray: Mr. Speaker, under this Doer govern- ment, Manitoba is the only place that you cannot get out of a hallway and you cannot get into jail.

When an individual is caught committing a crime, the normal procedure is that th ey are charged and, over the course of a few months, they make their first appearance in court. They retain counsel, obtain particulars, enter a plea and a trial date is set. Overall, this should be about a three-to-four-month time period. Of course we understand that more serious cases would take somewhat longer. My question is to the Premier of the province of Manitoba. Can he explain why more than 6500 accused have been waiting over a year to stand trial and why more than 2100 accused have been waiting over two years?

Why is that, Mr. Speaker? Mr. Mackintosh: Mr. Speaker, first of all, the numbers are not a reflection of the number of accused. But in Manitoba, unlike in other juris- dictions where thousands upon thousands of cases have been thrown out, here in Manitoba we have fared reasonably well compared to other juris- dictions. I understand that about 86 percent of the informations are being dealt with in less than 18 months. At least now, unlike in the former decade when the remand culture built up in this province, there is a

1700 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 6, 2004 co-ordinated number of initiatives to reduce court backlogs and make justice more timely. It is a national concern. There is a national group that is looking at this as well. Mr. Murray: Mr. Speaker, in 1998 when the member from Concordia was the Leader of the Opposition, he said, and I quote, "We promise the people of Manitoba that we will have a more expedient and more effective justice system." That is what he said. The Premier has now had four and a half years to fix the court backlog problem. He said he would do it, if elected.

He is now the Premier and has been so for four and a half years. My question is very simply to this Premier: How many more cases will be dropped before this Premier takes some action? * (14:00) Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Mr. Speaker, the increase in support since we were elected to deal with the Prosecutions branch has gone up well over 65 percent. The proposal– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Doer: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The recom- mendation to have a more mechanized system of administration to allow Crown attorneys to have more time in court, which was neglected by members opposite, has been implemented by this Minister of Justice. The members opposite went as far as not only having a lot less resources and a lot less Crown attorneys; they had a lot less Crown attorneys in place, paying them a lot less salary. They chose to roll back salaries legislatively; that was won by Crown attorneys in an arb itration case. They brought in legislation to close down the courts with Filmon Fridays for 10 days a year.

This Minister of Justice is slowly but surely investing 65 percent more in the Crown prosecutor's office. He is paying people better salaries. We are able to retain people, and we are making a difference in prosecutions here in Manitoba. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. I would just like to remind all honourable members that when there is shouting back and forth, it is really hard to hear. I need to be able to hear the questions and the answers in case there is a breach of a rule.

I am sure each and every one of you would expect me to make a ruling and it would be pretty difficult if I cannot hear. I ask the co-operation of all honourable members, please. Justice System Trial Delays Mr. Gerald Hawranik (Lac du Bonnet): I would like to table a letter from Manitoba Justice, dated April 29. In 1998 the NDP came out with a list of reforms that said they would ease the backlog of cases in the courts, and this Justice Minister stated at that time that the issue of court backlogs is a serious one.

Since the Justice Minister regarded the issue of court backlogs as serious when he was not in power, what has he to say now when, after five years of this Justice Minister, there are 2146 accused who have been charged with criminal offences more than two years ago but still have not been brought to trial? Hon. Gord Mackintosh (M inister of Justice and Attorney General): I do not know where the Conservatives were the last decade when these kinds of backlogs were normal for them and now, all of a sudden, they have some interest in this. I reiterate, Mr.

Speaker, it is my understanding that 86 percent of the cases are dealt with in less than 18 months. In fact, in the area of youth cases, Stats Canada is telling us that there has been a reduction of 25 percent in the median time to process those cases. I remind members opposite that delay is caused by many factors. It is caused, whether it is by defence tactics, by disclosure. In fact, Judge Enns just ruled a couple of weeks ago that there was a serious ongoing problem of police disclosure that was resulting in backlogs. There is also the issue, Mr.

Speaker, of preliminary inquires and I just wonder where they stand on the abolition of pre- liminary inquiries in the Criminal Code. Where have they been on that? Mr. Hawranik: Mr. Speaker, to have 2146 accused persons who have been charged with criminal offences and yet not brought to trial within two years is outrageous. The police fo rces have done their job

May 6, 2004 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1701 through investigation and laying charges. The Justice Minister has simply not done his job in prosecuting these cases. There is no possible excuse for more than 2100 accused persons not having to answer for their offences for more than two years. Mr. Mackintosh: Mr. Speaker, if there had been a one-line answer to the national challenge of court backlogs, where were they? I just want to remind th e House that for the first time in Manitoba history a strategy is now unfolding to deal with the challenge of backlogs.

It is being headed by the Chief Judge of the Provincial Court. It is called a front-end project or officially the Pre-Trial Co-Ordination Pilot Project, which brings together all the players in the justice system. The Prosecutions branch is only one, Mr. Speaker. It brings together the court, which oversees the trials, the police, defence counsel, prosecutions and the court service. We have high hopes that that is going to make a difference. Other provinces are looking at what is happening in Manitoba. Mr. Hawranik: Mr. Speaker, hope is not going to do it. Action speaks louder than words. Mr.

Speaker, each of these more than 2100 accused persons violated at least 2100 victims. Each of these victims expects justice. Some of these victims may be victims of sexual assaults, violent crimes and some of these victims may be children. What will this minister say to the thousands of crime victims and thousands of families who are waiting for this minister to bring the accused to trial to answer to their charges? Mr. Mackintosh: Mr.

Speaker, I am pleased to stand in my place and remind members opposite that we have recognized here in Manitoba the strongest legislation in Canada to recognize the role of victims of crime. Mr. Speaker, when three quarters, indeed 74 percent of our cases are being dealt with in less than a year, that compares very well to what is being experienced in the criminal courts across this country. At the same time, here in this province we have initiatives unfolding.

Indeed, just two weeks ago the police disclosure working group was established in order for the police to have timely disclosure to the Crown which was identified in two recent cases that led to dismissal for delay, but our contributions to the Crown prosecutors is unmatched in the history of this province. Justice System Trial Delays Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): Mr. Speaker, the minister says that he is pleased to stand in his place and that is exactly the pr oblem. He does a lot of standing but he is not taking any action on this issue.

More than 2000 individuals accused of criminal offences have been on the streets without trial for more than two years. The Minister of Justice puts out news release after news release but when it comes to the real work of his department, public safety, he has failed Manitobans. Can the minister tell this House how many of these 2000 accused offenders are waiting trial for crimes related to family violence, stalking or sexual assault? Hon. Gord Mackintosh (M inister of Justice and Attorney General): Mr.

Speaker, these kinds of numbers are nothing new excep t that we are seeing a 25% reduction in the time it takes to move youth court cases along. Mr. Speaker, when we came into office, the Prosecutions branch had been assigned $7.8 million to operate. Today they have $16.5 million to operate. The Prosecutions branch is a place where we have made significant investments, 33 new staff positions, full time, in Prosecutions. That is our record. Mr. Goertzen: Mr. Speaker, these accusations are not new because, for the last five years, all that Government has done in Justice is spend more and get less results.

More than 2000 individuals accused of criminal offences have been on the streets without trial for more than two years. No amount of news releases will convince Manitobans that this is accept- able. Mr. Speaker, can the minister tell this House how many of these 2000 offenders awaiting trial are charged with crimes related to offences against children, child pornography and other child Internet- related crimes? Mr. Mackintosh: We have put a priority, Mr. Speaker, a new priority, on cases involving child abuse. If the opposition members were so concerned about protecting children, why did they establish a

1702 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 6, 2004 pedophile centre across from Winnipeg's most known kiddie park? * (14:10) Mr. Goertzen: One thing the minister could take credit for is he is about to overtake his colleague, the Minister of Health (Mr. Chomiak), for the longest waiting list in this province, Mr. Speaker, the longest waiting list. Manitobans expect that the Minister of Justice and the Premier (Mr. Doer) will put in place a justice system that will manage and protect them. This NDP Minister of Justice and the Premier have forgotten that their job is about public safety, not public relations.

What is their advice to the Manitobans who are worried about their safety and the safety of their children? Padlock your doors and pray for the morn- ing, Mr. Speaker? Mr. Mackintosh: Well, Mr. Speaker– An Honourable Member: Padlock your doors and pray for the morning. Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Mackintosh: Well, Mr. Speaker, it is my understanding that, according to the latest statistics, Canada's highest violent crime rate was suffered in Manitoba throughout most of the nineties, and by 2002 Manitoba was 9 percent below the next province. The last time I looked, the overall crime rate in Manitoba was down.

Youth violence was down. In fact, I want to point this out to members because it has not been reported, I believe, but break and enters recorded their lowest level ever in 2002. Education System Funding Mr. Stuart Murray (Leader of the Official Opposition): Mr. Speaker, funding education is a constitutional responsibility of government, not of property owners, and a new funding formula is required to make that happen. While the Premier said that he is rejecting the model that his working group is recommending, Mr. Speaker, he is not being up front about where his Government is going to go next.

The Government needs to take over responsibility of funding our public schools and putting an end to the reliance on property taxes. Will the Premier commit to implementing a funding formula that does this, or is he just going to chip away at it, Mr. Speaker? Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): I am glad the member finally admitted that we are chipping away at the taxes because we had a lot of chipping away to do after members opposite raised taxes by $131 million on property taxpayers on the education portion. I am also glad that he is asking people to be up front.

If he reads that report, that draft report that he released, Mr. Speaker, he will note that it costs $195 million to go from the present funding to 80 percent. He has been running around Manitoba not being up front, telling people it would be only $200 million to go to 100% funding. Perhaps he should read the report and start being up front with Manitobans. Mr. Murray: Mr. Speaker, chipping away is not a long-term solution. The Premier should know that.

Manitobans are looking for a long-term solution, and for the past two years this Premier had a committee that was working hard to rethink how we were going to fund education in Manitoba to accomplish this. What we heard from this Premier, Mr. Speaker, when we stood and asked the questions, is that he said very clearly that they were not going to raise the PST as recommended by his committee. The Premier said he will not accept his working group's report. So the question then is simply this, Mr.

Speaker: Will he implement a new funding formula that would reduce the reliance on property taxes and make government responsible for funding education in the province of Manitoba? Mr. Doer: We are chipping away, Mr. Speaker. Members opposite downloaded the equivalent of $131 million on to property taxpayers, a 68% increase on the education portion. So we are chip- ping away at the mountain of tax increases bequeathed by members opposite now that are holier than thou. It is the equivalent of a 1% increase in sales tax that they downloaded on to the property taxpayers. We are chipping away. It may not be

May 6, 2004 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1703 perfect, but they downloaded on every property taxpayer here in Manitoba. We are going to continue to chip away at it. Mr. Murray: Mr. Speaker, it would only be this Premier that would stand up and be proud of the fact that, at this time in Manitoba, we have record lows of proportional funding at 57 percent, and he is proud of that. I say shame on him. What is interesting, of course, is always to remind the member from Concordia of what he said about education. I would like to quote.

He said when he was in opposition, "We have also suggested the public education must be directly funded in a more appropriate way by this Government with a long- term plan in education." Mr. Speaker, that is what he said. This Premier has a history of saying one thing and doing another. When is this Premier going to appropriately fund education in Manitoba? Mr. Doer: When the Conservatives indicated in the mid-nineties that– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Doer: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I know the member from Russell is a little sensitive about the fact.

I should remind him again about the tax increases in his community, 51% increase in Russell, the Pelly Trail school, and a 27% decrease since this Government was elected. He can heckle all he wants, but the facts speak louder than his heckle. Education System Funding Mrs. Heather Stefanson (Tuxedo): Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Education claimed two days ago that he had not yet seen nor had he had discussions about the report from his own Working Group on Education Finance. The minister either misled this House or he is out of the loop when it comes to education finance reform in the province.

Either way it is unbecoming of a Minister of Education. What commitment will this minister make to overall education funding in this province to ensure that education will not continue to be funded on the backs of property taxpayers in the local com- munities? Hon. Peter Bjornson (M inister of Education, Citizenship and Youth): As I mentioned yesterday in the House, we had committed to a process with the working group. The working group is going to be meeting one more time this month, and they will be submitting a final report to me in the middle of June.

That is the process that we had approved, that is the process we agreed to, that is the process that I respect and the process that I honoured. It is unfortunate that members opposite did not honour that process. Education Finance Report Recommendations Mrs. Heather Stefanson (Tuxedo): Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Education has now had a copy of the report by his own working group on education reform for at least two days. He and the Premier have clearly rejected Model G that calls for a 1% increase in the PST to fund education.

Other models in the report suggest the following: Models A and B suggest 90% provincial funding and 5 percent to the local ta xpayers; Models C and D suggest 90% provincial funding; Model E suggests 88% provincial funding; Model F suggests 80% rovincial funding. p Mr. Speaker, can the Minister of Education inform this House today if he agrees or may consider adopting any of the other models in this report? Hon. Peter Bjornson (M inister of Education, Citizenship and Youth): Mr. Speaker, as I said, I am awaiting the final report and I will be meeting with the working group in June for that final report.

Members opposite do not need to lecture us on funding models with education. When you– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. It is very, very difficult to hear the answer from the Minister of Education. It is not fair to the Member for Tuxedo because the supple- mentary question is crafted from the initial question and from the answers that are given. If she cannot hear the answer, how can she craft her supple- mentary question? It is not fair. I ask the co-operation of all honourable members.

1704 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 6, 2004 Mr. Bjornson: Thank you. Members opposite need not lecture this Government with respect to edu- cation funding. Mr. Speaker, $105 million built into the base over five years compared to $15.2 million in five years. Talk about ch ipping away at education funding. They were chipping away at a rate of minus 2, minus 2.6, zero, minus 2 and zero. As a teacher in the classroom, I saw what was happening as a result of their commitment to edu- cation funding, Mr. Speaker. Mrs. Stefanson: Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Education has had this report for a few days.

He has had a chance to look it over. He has rejected Model G. He is now refusing to answer whether or not he is going to accept A, B, C, D, E or F. He is quickly running out of letters of the alphabet to reject. This is outrageous. Mr. Speaker, is there no plan to look at serious education funding reform in this province? Why has he wasted two years of this working group's time putting together options to reform education funding in our province? Mr. Bjornson: Mr. Speaker, I will say it again that the final report will be in my office in June and that is the process that the working group had agreed to.

I am looking forward to that final report. At such time the staff will be taking a look at that final report. But, again, for members opposite to lecture us on education funding that is a, I really cannot think of the number of adjectives that could be applied to that. Talk about running out of letters of the alphabet. There are not enough adjectives– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. We need to be able to hear the questions and the answers. I once again ask the co- operation of all honourable members, please. * (14:20) Mr. Bjornson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The member from Tuxedo suggested I was running out of letters of the alphabet. I could run out of adjectives very quickly to describe the shameful funding of education under members opposite. We have put in $105 million compared to $15 million, and we have doubled the amount of capital investment in our schools. Education System Funding Mr. Larry Maguire (Arthur-Virden): Under the Doer government, Mr. Speak er, the level of public education funding in Manitoba is at its lowest level in history at just under 57 percent. The Premier (Mr.

Doer) denies he wants to raise the PST by 1 percent or more and, regardless of what letter the minister wants to use of the alphabet, will this Minister of Education guarantee that future funding changes will not be negative to farmers and rural citizens? Hon. Peter Bjornson (M inister of Education, Citizenship and Youth): Unlike members opposite we have reduced portioning on farmland, we have reduced the education support levy. Mr. Speaker, we have increased the proper ty tax credit. We have committed to and met that commitment over five consecutive years to fund education at the rate of economic growth.

We are working very hard towards an appropriate investment in education. This is a government that invests in education. Mr. Maguire: Mr. Speaker, in spite of the minister's protestations, at a time when rural Manitobans are battling a 40% decrease in net farm income, the minister's report is recommending a funding formula that disproportionately, negatively impacts rural Manitobans. Will the minister stop offloading on school boards across this province and at least guarantee equity in funding public education across the province for all Manitobans? Mr. Bjornson: Mr.

Speaker, that is certainly a curious comment to make about offloading the costs of education when member s opposite repeatedly cut funding to education and offloaded to the local school boards. We have been increasing funding every year since we have been in government, and we have been decreasing taxes every year since we have been in government. We are committed to education in this province. We look at education as an investment, a very important investment. It is a priority of this Government. It has been a priority in our election campaigns and it continues to be a priority for this Government.

We have been making significant gains

May 6, 2004 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1705 with respect to education support levy decreases, three consecutive years with respect to increasing the property tax credit. We are on the right track. Mr. Maguire: Again, the minister's own draft report indicates that 28 school divisions would experience increases in their commercial taxation mill rates with the bulk of those being in rural Manitoba, Mr. Speaker. Today, will the Premier (Mr. Doer) jump to his feet as fast to guarantee equitable education funding between rural and urban Manitobans as he did to deny he would increase the PST by 1 percent or more?

Mr. Bjornson: We are a government that governs for all of Manitoba. Mr. Sp eaker, that was reflected in the changes we made to Hydro that equalized the cost for Manitobans not only in rural but urban Manitoba. We have, as I said repeatedly, reduced the education support levy, in creased the property tax credit. The member is referring to a draft report. I have not received the final report, and I will not be commenting on the report until such time that I receive that final report. High Risk Offender Unit Establishment Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Justice.

The Edmonton Police Service has an excellent program known as the high-risk offender program. In essence what it does is it provides surveillance on individuals they suspect are going to repeat. It is a program that has proven to be successful , and they work in co- operation with the Department of Justice and Corrections. We have seen many press releases come from this Government. What we want to be able to do is to see some real, tangible action. Mr.

Speaker, the question to the minister is: Would the minister acknowledge the benefits of Manitoba establishing or working in co-operation with our police force and Corrections in establishing a high risk offenders' unit for our province which would really provide something tangible for our citizens? Hon. Gord Mackintosh (M inister of Justice and Attorney General): Perhaps the member will benefit from some discussion, then in Estimates, and I can explain to him the criminal organization and High Risk Offender Unit which was brought in by this Government in 2000, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Lamoureux: Mr.

Speaker, it is a fairly specific question. In recognition of a program that is actually working in other jurisdictions, Edmonton is not alone. The question to the Government is why would they not consider having a program of a similar nature. Is it because it is not this minister's idea? Is that the reason why it is not good? No one owns a good idea. If there is an idea that is out there, we should be able to take advantage of it. Will the Government acknowledge it and work towards implementing a program of a similar nature thereby making Manitobans safer in their own homes? Mr.

Mackintosh: I do not think the member heard my answer to the first question. We brought in for the first time in this province, Mr. Speaker, the Criminal Organization and High Risk Offender Unit so that the divisions of Corrections and Prosecutions and the federal government as well as police could work in a more co-ordinated way, Mr. Speaker. I also advise that the member should become aware of the Intensive Support and Supervision program which predated our Government but which we have built on which deals more closely with the young offenders.

I am certainly willing to share the experiences of those two initiatives with the honourable member, but I might also add that we have brought in many, many initiatives, Mr. Speaker, unique to Manitoba that other provinces are looking at for adoption else- where. High Risk Offenders Monitoring Program Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Mr. Speaker, this Government talks a lot and it brings in all sorts of stuff, but in tangible ways, and that is the way we are going to measure this Government's performance. It continues to fail Manitobans day in and day out.

A press conference for a headline is all this minister seeks. I have never seen in my 12 years in opposition a minister that does so much in terms of talk but in real terms has done very, very little. My question to the minister is he has known about ankle bracelets, as an example, with GPS. The minister has been aware of this program for years,

1706 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 6, 2004 yet we still see nothing. Yet Manitobans could benefit in a very tangible way. Mr. Speaker, what is the minister going to do about ankle bracelets? Does he not see or recognize the value? Enough with the talk. Manitobans want action from this Government and this Minister of Justice is failing Manitobans. Shame on him. * (14:30) Hon.

Gord Mackintosh (M inister of Justice and Attorney General): I hope the honourable member will support what I hope is a unanimous decision of this House to call on the federal Liberals to stop this law of conditional sentences for serious crimes. I hope he stands with all of the other members in this House. I want to see action, not just talk, from that member. Mr.

Speaker, whether it is intensive supervision, whether it is turnabout for offenders under 12, where it is Cybertip, whether it is the young offender mentoring program we have introduced, whether it is Lighthouses, Project Gang Proof, whether it is the police in schools initiative, whether it is The Safer Communities Act, whether it is SafetyAid for seniors, that is action. That is action. Provincial Nominee Program Update Mr. Cris Aglugub (The Maples): Mr. Speaker, my question today is for the Minister of Labour and Immigration. Manitoba has the most successful Provincial Nominee Program in Canada.

Can the minister tell this House how the changes she announced will help the Government reach its goal of 10 000 immigrants per year? Hon. Nancy Allan (Min ister of Labour and Immigration): I was pleased on Monday, Mr. Speaker, to announce a redesign of our Provincial Nominee Program. It is very exciting because our program is the most successful program in Canada and we have just raised the bar again. We have created five priority streams that will direct appli- cants straight to the labour market. It has expanded access, it will reduce processing times and it will increase our program integrity.

From 2002 to 2003, we saw a 40% increase in our Provincial Nominee Program. In the first quarter of this year, we saw a 38% increase and we will continue to meet our election commitment to bring 10 000 newcomers to Manitoba. Pharmacare Deductible Increase Mrs. Leanne Rowat (Minnedosa): Mr. Speaker, on the 1-877-NDP-CUTS hotline, we have received a call from a 42-year-old nurse from the Premier's (Mr. Doer) own riding of Concordia, who is permanently disabled and lives on a $26,000 annual income. She will have to pay $125 more for her prescription drugs as a result of the Doer government's Pharmacare changes.

What does the Minister of Health say to this disabled woman who says she will be forced to cut her dosage in half or forget certain needs, such basic needs as eating? Hon. Dave Chomiak (Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, when we were looking at our Pharmacare program that was increasing by 15 percent and 20 percent per year, when we wanted to redesign it, we looked at what other jurisdictions had done and what other governments had done. Mr. Speaker, the previous Tory government had cut $20 million from the program and eliminated two thirds of people from the program. We said we are not going to do that.

We looked at other provinces where they make you pay a co-payment, an addition- al funding. We said we are not going to do that. We looked at some provinces that only gave drugs to chronic diseases or only to seniors. We said that we are not going to do that. We want to sustain the program, provide as much universal coverage and still have one of the best Pharmacare universal programs in the country and not privatize, as members opposite wanted us to do. Mrs. Rowat: Mr.

Speaker, the 1-877-NDP-CUTS hotline, we received a call from a gentleman from Rossmere constituency who called on behalf of his wife who is suffering from Parkinson's disease. They cannot afford the Doer government's hike to the Pharmacare deductible and now must cash in their RRSPs. I ask the Minister of Health: Why must this family, already suffering from a family member having a debilitating disease, have to make these choices?

May 6, 2004 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1707 Mr. Chomiak: Mr. Speaker, we made the choice not to eliminate the program. We made the choice to have a universal program. We made the choice to still provide 100% coverage, after you achieve the deductible. We made the choice to put on drugs like Betaseron and the MS drugs that were not covered by members opposite. We made the choice to put on Gleevec, the first cancer-treating drug, that was not covered by members opposite. We made the choice to put on drugs that cost over $25,000 and $30,000 per family so they do not have to go without.

It is not a decision that we took lightly. We took the decision so we could maintain the program in the future and still have a universal program that provided for all Manitobans and not privatize the program so people have to pay it out of their own pockets all the time, as members opposite have urged us to do. We do not want to go private. We want to have a universal program. Mrs. Rowat: Mr. Speaker, on the 1-877-NDP-CUTS hotline, we received a call from a 40-year-old woman who is disabled as a result of a head injury she sustained 14 years ago.

She must now depend on her elderly parents to help pay for her medications. This is a direct result of the Doer government's Pharmacare changes. How can this Minister of H e a l t h d e f e n d t h i s a t t a c k o n s o m e o f t h e m o s t vulnerable in our society? Mr. Chomiak: When we made the decisions to make the Pharmacare program sustainable into the future, we looked at it and we looked at other jurisdictions. We said that we are not going to cut off people, as had happened in Manitoba before. We said that we have to sustain it in the future. Mr.

Speaker, 85 percent of the 85 000 families that receive Pharmacare will only see an increase of $1 to $9 per month. After that, they will get 100% coverage. The average Manitoban's benefit has gone up by hundreds of dollars in the years we have been in office. We have tripled the amount of money we have put in. We want the program in the future. Members opposite want us to privatize and have people pay out of their own pocket. We are not choosing that option. We are not saying privatize, as members opposite say.

We are saying we want a universal program where the Government will help you pay for your drug cost, not privatize. We are not going to do that. Mr. Speaker: Time for Oral Questions has expired. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Women of Distinction Awards Ms. Marilyn Brick (St. Norbert): Mr. Speaker, I was pleased to attend, along with many other members of this Legislature, the renowned 2004 YMCA-YWCA Women of Distinction Awards, which were presented at the Winnipeg Convention Centre last night. The evening consisted of a banquet and awards in recognition of these outstanding and talented women.

This special event recognizes and honours the contributions and achievements of women in the Winnipeg community, in particular women who have by their volunteer work enriched the Winnipeg community and made it a better place to live. Their hard work, leadership, compassion and dedication are an inspiration for us to pursue ideals in our community and lives. This year 52 Manitoba women were nominated, which was 10 more than la st year, and a record for this 28-year-old award. Nine women were given awards in nine different categories. I am very pleased that a constituent from St.

Norbert, Bennetta-Lynn Benson, was acknowledged for her work in recre- ation, sports and active living. Bennetta has been very active over the years. She has worked diligently with children who have autism. She has helped to organize the Winnipeg Optimal Health Early Years Sports Club, which helps children develop motor skills and engage in physical activity. She is also a volunteer with– Mr. Speaker: Order. We have a member rising on a point of order. So we have to deal with the point of order. Point of Order Mr. Speaker: The honourable Official Opposition House Leader, on a point of order. Mr.

Leonard Derkach (Official Opposition House Leader): Mr. Speaker, on a point of order. I certainly respect the member from St. Norbert in

1708 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 6, 2004 making her private member's statement. She has every right to do that, and we certainly acknowledge that. We hear the ministers chirping from their desks and others, but they have an obligation to this House.

When noteworthy events ta ke place in our province, the practice of this House has been that a minister who has the responsibility for that area would rise in the House on a subsequent day and present to the House a ministerial statement that signifies the importance of that event and the importance of that day. * (14:40) In this way, members of the Opposition can then participate in responding to that ministerial statement in a positive way. The Women of Distinction Awards is not a partisan award. This is one that pertains to all members of the House.

So, in the convention of the practice of this House where we have always acknowledged events of this significance with ministerial statements, I think it is reprehensible that the Minister responsible for the Status of Women (Ms. Allan) did not rise in her place to put on the record a statement announcing the significance of this ev ent, and meanwhile they depend on a backbencher to make this announce- ment, which, I think, is unfair to that backbencher of this House. Mr. Speaker: Order. The honourable Government House Leader, on the same point of order. I will hear you very briefly. Hon.

Gord Mackintosh (Government House Leader): Reluctantly, Mr. Speaker, I just think it is an unfortunate reflection on the right and role of honourable members in this House. This was a matter that has been prioritized as a member's statement and they can, likewise, prioritize it as a member's statement. My understanding is that practice changes over time, but my understanding is that why they raise it this year, I have no idea. Obviously, it is some kind of a grandstanding notion. Mr. Speaker, Women of Distinction Awards are not in place only in this city, and there are other awards of distinction as well.

We recognize them all, as I have said earlier, and it is unfortunate the member's statement was interrupted. It is not a point of order. There is no departure from any rule what- soever. Mr. Speaker: Order. I would just like to remind all honourable members that I was listening carefully because I thought the honourable member was going in a different direction, but this issue I had already dealt with earlier with a different point of order. I would just like to remind all honourable members that the restriction of scope of members in a member's statement can be as political as they want.

Ministers, if they choose to use a ministerial statement, that is up to them, but the minister cannot use a member's statement for any political activity in their departments. So I just wanted to let members know that. Also, I would just caution members again that when I have dealt with a point of order, I hope members do not reraise it because I really do not think members would want to reflect on a Speaker's ruling. So that is not a point of order. * * * Mr. Speaker: I will just read the members' statements' limitations.

"On each sitting day, up to five members may be recognized to make a member's statement on any matter. Each statement shall be no more than two minutes." The restrictions: "The only restrictions on the scope of members' statements is a Minister of the Crown may not use the time allotted for members' statements to comment on government policy or ministerial or departmental action." But other mem- bers can if they choose. Point of Order Mr. Speaker: The honourable Official Opposition House Leader, on a new point of order or on clarification? Mr. Leonard Derkach (Official Opposition House Leader): Yes, Mr.

Speaker, just on a point of clarification because I was not reflecting on the right of the member from St. Norbert in making this statement. My point was that this event was significant enough for the minister to also make a ministerial statement, and of course, the member from St. Norbert has every right to make the statement in the House as she was doing.

May 6, 2004 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1709 Mr. Speaker: Order. On the point of order raised by the honourable Official Opposition House Leader, ministerial statements, as I am sure everyone in the House knows, are to be decided by the Government. There is no such, at least that I am aware of, prece- dence that says that this day or that day or this event or that event has to have a ministerial statement. I am always under the impression that it is entirely up to the Government to decide what minis- terial statements they want to bring forward.

That is my understanding and I am sure that is the practice of Manitoba. I do not know but I am sure of that. * * * Mr. Speaker: The honourable Member for St. Norbert, to continue. Ms. Brick: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Bennetta has been very active over the years. She has worked diligently with children who have autism. She has helped to organize the Winnipeg Optimal Health Early Years Sports Club which helps children develop motor skills and engage in physical activity. Mr.

Speaker, she is also a volunteer with the Manitoba Families for Effective Autism Treatment and has penned a book related to autism spectrum disorder. I would like to commend and thank her for her commitment to the children in our community who have special needs. Overall, the evening was a tremendous success and I was pleased to be in the company of such distinguished and remarkable women who help to make our community a fabulous place to reside. Mr. Speaker: Order. Some Honourable Members: Leave. Some Honourable Members: No. Mr. Speaker: Order. The honourable member's time is up. Mrs.

Leanne Ro wat (Minnedosa): I appreciate the opportunity to rise today to speak to the 2004 YW- YMCA Women of Distinction Awards. Mr. Speaker, it is unfortunate that this did not become a ministerial statement because I would have had an opportunity to individually congratulate each of the winners, but I am going to have to be shorter. I had the opportunity of attending this wonderful event yesterday with many honourable colleagues from both sides of the Chamber.

The YWCA did an excellent job of organizing and hosting this event, an event that I have also enjoyed attending in Brandon for many years and have had successfully nominated candidates in the past. It was a privilege to celebrate the accomplish- ments of so many deserving women, women who have always made valuable contributions to society. I am pleased that the Y, in 25 years, has decided to recognize those contributions publicly. Mr. Speaker, this special evening is an excellent reminder of women's diversity within this province.

Women contribute a variety of gifts, talents and abilities to our communities, organizations, work- places and families. It is encouraging to see women from so many different wa lks of life honoured for their unique ways of making this community a better place and making Manitoba a better place to live. It was really an opportunity of celebrating women's accomplishments, and in the future, I anticipate there will be many more women and many more accom- plishments to celebrate in Manitoba. Thank you. Dakota Community Centre Ms. Theresa Oswald (Seine River): Mr.

Speaker, it is my pleasure to rise today to pay tribute to the hardworking staff and volunteers that support the outstanding achievements of the families and youth that participate in a variety of activities at Dakota Community Centre. The centre is located in the heart of the Seine River constituency and ha s for years been a focal, active-living environment for children, adolescents, adults and seniors.

Enrolment in competitive and recreational activities continues to skyrocket, and this year alone over 5000 registrations in activities have been recorded. * (14:50) These community-oriented opportunities range from baseball, soccer, ringette, basketball, inline hockey, figure skating and aerobics programs to the

1710 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 6, 2004 innovative programming in mini soccer, lacrosse, sand volleyball, seniors cards and trails and pathway programs. Mr. Speaker, the Dakota Community Centre shares meaningful partnerships with the Manitoba Junior Hockey League's Winnipeg Saints Hockey School, Manitoba Provincial Figure Skating, as a provincial training site, the City of Winnipeg Libraries, Collège Jeanne-Sauvé, the First Step Montessori Day Care and the Dakota Day Care. The centre connects our community in ways that enrich us physically, spiritually and emotionally. It is a centre for caring. Mr.

Speaker, community centre general man- ager, Chris Sobkowicz, is delighted with the forward-thinking, generous nature of Dakota's workers and volunteers. Recently, dedicated coach and volunteer, Bill Wilford, was honoured for his 18 years of commitment with the Cargill Cares Volunteer Award. This award was accompanied by a $1,000 contribution to the Dakota Scholarship Fund, the first of its kind for community centres in Manitoba.

This past winter the Bonivital Council for Seniors, under the expert direction of Karen Irvine, held its annual Winter Craft Sale at Dakota Com- munity Centre which was attended by hundreds of citizens from across the province and resulted in substantial funds being raised for the council. I pay tribute today to the many workers and volunteers at Dakota Community Centre for offering all of our constituents and friends an opportunity to thrive and grow. Félicitations. Thank you. Charlie Balmer Mrs.

Mavis Taillieu (Morris): I would like to put a few words on the record ab out a very talented and creative constituent of mi ne, Mr. Charlie Balmer. Mr. Balmer, founder of Valmar Airflow, Inc. comes from Elie, Manitoba. On April 15, Balmer was named into the Manitoba Agricultural Hall of Fame for his contribution to the agricultural industry and for his amazing ability to solve problems for farmers through innovatively designing farm equipment. Mr. Speaker, Charlie Balmer started out his career on a farm before moving into the field of auto mechanics.

Twenty-six years later he established his own company, Valmar Airflow, where he continued to acquire many different skills that complement his creativity. He worked for Monsanto, and during his time there, made significant contributions to the application of fertilizer to crops. He designed the first precise metering applicator for the placement of granular herbicides and the first high-capacity, high- clearance, self-propelled sprayer. Mr. Balmer has also ventured into crop spraying, flying, and in the 1970s assisted the federal Department of Agriculture in moving 300 tractors to Algeria.

He even has a prototype hovercraft that he invented. Mr. Balmer has worked hard throughout his entire life and now, in his seventies, he continues to work more than full time in his company in Elie. With over 20 registered patents, Balmer and his staff manufacture hundreds of different machines a year. He has made a significant contribution to agriculture within Manitoba and throughout the world and has been recognized nationally and internationally as an inventor, an innovator, a designer and an entre- preneur. On behalf of this Assembly, I would like to extend our congratulations to Mr.

Balmer and wish him all the best as he is officially inducted into the Manitoba Agricultural Hall of Fame in July. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Anything Goes Theatrical Production Mr. Daryl Reid (Transcona): Mr. Speaker, recently my wife and I had the opportunity to attend the Transcona Collegiate Institute's musical comedy classic titled Anything Goes. The show's setting is 1930s on board a ship. This play is about four star- crossed lovers battling for each other's love and affection.

Each of the four is trying to figure out who they are really meant for and, along the way, meet some very interesting characters. The cast of Anything Goes was comprised of Senior 2 to Senior 4 students who are a part of the Transcona Collegiate Musical Theatre course. These students started their work in November of last year, leading up to four production show dates. Mr.

Speaker, the 52-member cas t and main character actors were supported by a pit band and production crew comprised of costumes, advertising, hair and makeup, sets, lighting and audio, props, photo displays, programming, art department and stage hands.

May 6, 2004 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1711 We shall remember the great performance of all that were involved. I am proud of the exceptional efforts of the youth of Transcona Collegiate and pleased that this high school in my own community has such dedicated and committed teachers who go the extra mile, building student confidence, encour- aging excellence and nurturi ng the minds and spirits of these students. Perhaps one day we might see some of these exceptional young people take up careers in the performing arts, having received their start at Transcona Collegiate.

Congratulations to everyone involved at Transcona Collegiate for a wonderful effort and especially teacher-director, Gary Matwichuk, and I look forward to next year's play. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. ORDERS OF THE DAY GOVERNMENT BUSINESS Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House Leader): Would you please call Supply, Mr. Speaker? Mr. Speaker: In accordance with our Rule 23(5), the House will now resolve into Committee of Supply. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY (Concurrent Sections) AGRICULTURE, FOOD AND RURAL INITIATIVES * (15:00) Mr. Chairperson (H arry Schellenberg): Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This

section of the Committee of Supply meeting in Room 254 will now resume consideration of the Estimates in the Department of Agriculture, Food and Rural Initiatives. As had been previously agreed, questioning for this department will follow in a global manner. The floor is now open for questions. Mr. Jack Penner (Emerson): There were a few issues left outstanding in the Estimates process, but I understand that the time limits have been exceeded by our committee, and we were actually supposed to, I believe, wind up the affairs of the committee at the end of Tuesday, which we did not achieve.

So I believe we do have a few minutes to wind up some of the issues left outstanding, and I think we were probably even supposed to go line by line on this, which we have not done either. I am not sure whether we want to deal with the line-by-line Estimates or leave them unfinished until next year. I understand, Mr. Chairman, that the minister would like to deal with them, which is quite understandable. However, Mr. Chairman, I want to say this.

One of the outstanding issues that I believe is there is the issue that the livestock industry is facing, and that is the order to close the border when Canada had its first and only BSE case in Alberta. The reason I want to raise this is what the minister has continually said to the people of Manitoba, and maybe probably even in Canada, when the first time we went to visit with some of our mutual friends, the minister and I, in South Dakota at a tri-state and provincial conference.

When we concluded the conference, the media asked what had been discussed, what the issues were and how the minister felt about that. She indicated clearly to Manitobans that she had had discussions with her American friends, and she was quite convinced the border would open relatively soon. I am not sure what the term "relative" means to the minister, but it has a totally different meaning to me. Number One, what I found very surprising about that statement was the people that we met with in South Dakota were merely state senators as we were merely members of a provin cial legislature.

These people had no authority, nor did the discussion lead us to even think there were any comments made that would lead us to believe the borders would open soon because these people had no authority to say that, nor did we have the authority to make those kinds of statements or connotations. I found it very interesting that the minister would do that. The minister did that once later on in the fall when cattle prices had risen substantially from where they were and again came back from some trip somewhere and said she was very con- vinced that the borders would open very soon.

I believe the term she used was within a few weeks. Mr. Chairman, there were many people that were contemplating selling their cattle last fall. They made the decision not to because of what this minister said.

1712 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 6, 2004 I have been told this right across this province from the western side of the province to the eastern side of the province, that they made the decision based on what the minister said. I find it very interesting that the minister again, not just a week or two ago, said she believed the border would open quickly. We have found out, Mr. Chairman, how strong producer organizations can be if they use the author- ity of the courts. The R-CALF organization went to the U.S. Court and put an injunction on meat products coming into the United States.

In other words, the decision had only been made less than a week previous by the Department of Agriculture in Washington indicating that we could now commence shipping bone-in beef and hamburger. That was stopped relatively quickly by R-CALF. It was also apparent that the Secretary of Agriculture in the U.S., Anne Veneman, did not even know that the border had been opened by the department. I believe the minister again said it was a clear sign that the Americans were moving and that we are going to see borders open fairly soon.

Again, farmers hesitated in moving cattle when maybe they should have paid attention to market signals instead of signals from politicians. I want to raise this because this is important that we, as politicians, should pay extreme attention to the kind of signals we send, especially when we have been given ministerial authority. I cannot say this strongly enough. * (15:10) Now when the order came down by the judge to not allow those meat products, it became apparent that the U.S. government, the President of the United States even said he would not intervene in this because he could not.

He was a politician and could not intervene in court action. I think it is imperative to note, however, that over the last day or so, in discussions between the Department of Agriculture in Washington and the courts and the R-CALF organization, I believe they have come to terms that will see the border remain closed until the normal process that had been identified as being the process to allow the borders to be open, or remain closed, would be taken. That is of course when the case was presented. What was it, a 70-day period of comments and then review later on.

That, I believe, will determine whether we will see open borders or not. The Americans have agreed that process should continue, including R-CALF. Now what has that done to our producers? What kind of chaos has the minister created by the constant comments that she had made? Very substantial. I met last night with probably 50 or 60 producers in Vita. They met dealing with Bill 22, dealing with Bill 40 and dealing with the manure management regulations and others. I must commend the depart- mental staff that were there.

They did a tremendously good, professional job of laying out what was before the people of Manitoba. I should say this to the minister there is a tremendous amount of apprehension in the rural agricultural community about the actions that this Government is taking. Many people are saying, and there were a few last night, this appears to be an attack on agriculture. Now whether it is deliberate by this Government or not, I am not going to judge. However, Mr. Chairperson, I want to say to you that the appearance of the so-called safety regulations that are put out there–and by the way, my next door neighbour at St.

Jean was stopped last week Friday afternoon when he moved his air seeder from one field to another. He had a flat tire on the air seeder and he stopped on the way to repair the air seeder. The highways inspector came along and looked at his outfit and said, "You haven't got a chain hooking, a safety chain," and my neighbour said, "Yes, you're correct. I don't. I am guilty of that." So he received a ticket for that, which was fair. He should have had a chain. However, the inspector looked at the equipment and he said, "This equip- ment is too high.

You can't travel on the road." Then he proceeded to measure the height and he said, "I believe it is also too long. " He proceeded to measure the length and he said, "You can't move this equip- ment. It is too high and too long." It was an air seeder, Madam Minister, which had a packer behind it and a seed tank behind it and an anhydrous tank behind it, a one-pass seeding opera- tion as most of us, or many of us, have on our farms today, and this Department of Agriculture is telling us we cannot move equipment that is environ- mentally friendly.

Well, the rules that I saw on safety are largely being promoted by the Department of Agriculture as agricultural safety. Is that not true, Madam Minister?

May 6, 2004 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1713 So we are now being environmentally friendly. Where we used to have four tractors in the field, we have one. Where we had four labourers on the field, we now have one. We move the equipment from field to field, and it is all computerized. There are fertilizer monitors on it that make sure that we will not apply more than what we are allowed to apply or that what the soil needs to raise a good crop. It monitors the seed placement and, indeed, it monitors the speed and it steers the tractor.

Now we were told that we had to decouple that equipment to haul it to the field, piece by piece, by the inspector and you should get a permit for every day that you are going to be on the road, a special permit for every day that you are going to be on the road, a separate permit. Look at the bureaucracy th at is going to need in order to implement this, because our hydro lines are too low and because the equipment that was man- ufactured, not by the farmer, is too high, and the farmer is being blamed.

Should we not direct Manitoba Hydro to raise their lines so that they would at least, in these modern times, be safe? Should we not say to the highways department that this equipment does not travel on the road at more than maybe 20 miles an hour? It does not take a great deal of time for a person to pass and normally these people will slow down their equipment then, when they see a vehicle coming from the back or the front, to give them adequate room to pass? But, no, we blame the farmer, and I think that is unfortunate. The reason I say this is farmers feel that they are under attack.

We have now hired 28 new farm policemen through the environment depart- ment, through the water department. Mr. Chairperson, the DFO, the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, have hired a group of people, policemen, that are being sent out, federal people sent out to police what we do in rural Manitoba. Again, agriculture is under attack. This is constant. We have environmental police. We have agricultural police. We have fertility police. We have water police. We have highways police.

It is almost astounding, the point to which we have come in this province under this NDP administration, and I think it is a clear indication of the importance they are placing on the relevance of agriculture and where we need to be or where we want this industry to be. Now how much more, Mr. Chairperson, how many more impediments are we going to put in the way of the primary producer in this province that, I believe, has never seen a net income as low as we have seen this year? According to the information, this is the lowest net income year that farmers have had in this province. It is minus zero.

So what are these farmers supposed to do? They have done everything that they have been asked to do. They are looking after the environment. They are placing their fertilizer where the seed can best utilize it. They have computerized their equipment to make sure that it will be done precisely. They have econ- omized in every which way they can and yet they are under attack.

I would really, before we go line by line and wrap this up, I would really like to put forward a motion which I am not going to, but I would like to drop the minister's salary to zero, or minus zero, if I could, to put her at the same income level that farmers in this province are. I think she should be nothing but receptive to that idea. An Honourable Member: Go for it. Mr. Penner: Hey, she said, "Go for it." I think it is time that this minister realize that she should be the proponent for those producers out there, instead of constantly agreeing with her colleagues' attack on the industry. Mr.

Chairperson, it is being done through the department of transportation. It is being done through the department of environment. It is being done through the department of water. It is being done through the department of intergovernmental services, not through the Ministry of Agriculture because I truly believe that the minister's staff would have said, "Hold it, you cannot do that." They know the importance of agriculture to this province of Manitoba. I say to this minister do your job. Be the proponent for agriculture. Be the proponent of the producers.

Be the protector of your producers and do what is right for the farmers of Manitoba. Mr. Chairperson, I am suggesting we should proceed to the line-by-line consideration of the department.

1714 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 6, 2004 Hon. Rosann Wowchuk (Minis ter of Agriculture, Food and Rural Initiatives): I am certainly prepared to move line by line, but I do have to make a few comments on this situation that happened that we have been through with the whole BSE situation. Certainly, it has been a very challenging time. Last July, the incident that the member was talking about, we were operating under a scenario that indicated a prompt border opening from information from CFIA and from the CCA. We were at a meeting.

Of course we were also going on the word of Secretary Veneman who indicated that she would deal with this decision based on science and move forward on an expedited way. * (15:20) It is really funny that the member is saying that I made comments to the media. If I recall, we were in the United States and the member got out of the meeting before I did to get to the media to call back home to make his comments, so he was making his comments himself on what should be done. It was an important meeting where we were looking at how we could work with our neighbours.

We had excellent presentations from people in Manitoba, from veter- inarians in the United States. You know, that border did open up to boxed beef on August 8, and that did make a significant difference. That was historical as well because that is the first time ever in BSE history that a border opened up so quickly. That border opening to the United States to boxed beef was significant for our producers, but the border opening up to Mexico was also significant because that opened us up to a new market.

I can tell you that when I was in Mexico earlier this year, there were people talking about the beef we had, and Canadian beef in their restaurants, and were very impressed with the quality of it. The notice that came out in April which was to allow the movement of bone-in hamburger, etc. did not follow the rule-making process. That was a step that was taken that did not follow the rule-making process. R-CALF placed an injunction on it and the USDA is still reviewing those comments. The comment period ended April 7; we are now waiting for a decision.

I would still say as I have in the past, that, based on science, the border should be opening. It should be open now based on science. USDA staff told us when we were in Washington in February that they would move slowly and legally to avoid any court action. There were some people that got ahead of themselves, and they really did get some court action. With respect to farm safety, Mr. Chairperson, the member raises a very important issue, and all of us, I should say, not one of us wants to see a farm accident. They cause severe hardships, put tremen- dous pressure on families, and the member is right.

Equipment is getting bigger, but I want to say that Manitoba Hydro reported that, in 2002, there were 68 overhead power line contacts. Of those, 13 were air seeders and 14 were cultivators. You can see that there is a serious issue. Some of the current farm equipment that is being manufactured in transport position exceeds the existing CSA standards for power-lines-to-ground clearances. There are serious issues here, and we are taking steps to recognize the importance of farm safety.

There was just a news release recently that I put out and there is promotional material that was put out by KAP at their annual general meeting. The Farmers' Voice has run articles on oversized equipment. I sincerely recognize that spring is a busy time for farmers. They are trying to get their work done. We have a responsibility to be sure that the information is out there, people are ma de aware of the risks that are out there when you are moving with equipment around electrical lines. As well, Mr. Chairperson, the member talks about this Government attacking farmers. I would have to disagree with him on that.

I was at Rural Forum, where I had the opportunity to sit in with farm representatives who talked about how they also recognized that we as society, all, no matter what our walk in life is, have a responsibility to protect our soil and water. They have come forward with suggestions, and we are going to continue to work in that vein, to ensure that the soil and water in this province is in a better state for the next generation than it is now. That is ultimately the goal. How can we have a better environment to live in? How can we protect our resources?

Any work we are doing, we are doing in full consultation with the community. Mr. Penner: Mr. Chairperson, I respect what the minister is saying. I only want to add this, that no other sector in society, I believe, has done more, or spent more money for the protection of the

May 6, 2004 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1715 environment than the farm community has. They have totally changed the way they have operated in the last decade. I have never seen an evolutionary process that has been as quick and has had the positive effects that the farm community has seen and done. They did it for two reasons: No. 1, for economics; No. 2, because they were concerned for their soil for the future ge nerations. They want to make sure that their children and their children's children would have the same kind of quality soil, or better quality soil, than they had before.

I truly believe that that was the main reason and the environmental effect of that was secondary, and yet it has had a dramatic effect on the environment. When I drove home yesterday, there was a black field that was blowing but it was the only field that I saw in all of the Red River Valley. Had that happened 15 years, ago you would have seen the whole valley up in dust, winds like we had yesterday, and it did not happen yesterday. That is a credit to the farm community. We as a society do not give enough credit to the indi vidual producers and the investments that they have made in that respect.

I would suggest to the minister, if she wanted to do society a favour for safety's sake, order Manitoba Hydro to immediately start raising their lines to proper standards because many of them are not under proper standards. When we have to start filing route plans, as airplanes do flight plans, that is what we are required to do now, that under the permitting system for every morning you make the trip, every day you make the trip back, you have to file the plan. Hydro has to go out and inspect the lines to see that they are at proper height and if not, to warn the farmers that they cannot go there.

They have to select a different route to get to their fields. That is the permitting system that you put in place. I think, clearly, farmers see this as something that is not their fault. They have only done what they saw fit needed to be done. That is to protect the environment, to put less fuel out into the air, to put less emissions out into the air, to protect the ozone layer, and yet they are now being told you cannot haul the equipment that is needed to accomplish what the Kyoto accord says we should be moving toward. So I am saying to the minister do one thing.

Advocate for those that you are responsible for, for the farm community. Secondly, I want to say this to the departmental staff. I think we have seen the direction from the Department of Agriculture to support the farm community with good educational programs, and I think that is where it needs to happen. I think we have seen the department initiate steps to work with the farm community and I commend them for that. I think they have done an absolutely marvellous job in working with the community.

I think your Ag reps and some of the community support staff, you out there, are second to none and I think your administration needs to be commended for that. I hope we can keep working in that vein. I hope we can instil a level of confidence within our farm communities that our young people will stay on the farms and that we will encourage that young group of people that is out there now to remain there, because there are some excellent, excellent young farmers coming on board. They are well educated and they ar e smart and they are not hesitant to take the chances.

That is what you have to have is people who are willing to take the chance, take the gamble, when you have downturns in incomes like we had last year, that they are able to work their way through that and keep on farming, because that is, after all, our future. Mr. Chairperson: Any further ques tions? If there are no further questions, we will get onto the resolutions. Resolution 3.2: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $80,949,700 for Agriculture, Food and Rural Initiatives, Risk Management and Income Support Programs, for the fiscal year ending the 31st day of March, 2005.

Resolution agreed to. * (15:30) Resolution 3.3: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $6,136,300 for Agriculture, Food and Rural Initiatives, Manitoba Agri cultural Credit Corpora- tion, for the fiscal year ending the 31st day of March, 2005. Resolution agreed to.

1716 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 6, 2004 Resolution 3.4: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $16,796,700 for Agriculture, Food and Rural Initiatives, Agricultural Development and Marketing, for the fiscal year ending the 31st day of March, 2005. Resolution agreed to. Resolution 3.5: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $15,328,600 for Agriculture, Food and Rural Initiatives, Regional Agricultural Services, for the fiscal year ending the 31st day of March, 2005. Resolution agreed to.

Resolution 3.6: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $17,356,200 for Agriculture, Food and Rural Initiatives, Rural and Northern Community Economic Development, for the fiscal year ending the 31st day of March, 2005. Mr. Penner: I just want to note that is $1.2 million less than last year. Ms. Wowchuk: Mr. Chairperson, there is indeed a decline on the Rural and Northern Community Economic Development line. That funding comes from VLT revenue. It is a formula that has been in place, and we all anticipated that there would be a decline in VLT revenue with the smoking ban.

That has happened, and that is reflected in the numbers that are in this budget. It is formula driven, the result of declining VLT revenues and we all anticipated it would happen. Mr. Penner: Thank you very much, and I respect that. I know it is formula driven, but I just want to remind the minister that in order to encourage rural development, you have to bring the incomes up from a minus net income situation to a plus net income situation, where it was, wh ere it was some five years ago.

If you would bring it back to that level, I think we would have a lot greater degree of comfort in the rural area and in the farm community. I would suspect that, if we look very closely, there has been a steady decline in the net income situation in the province of Manitoba in the last four and a half years. Ms. Wowchuk: Mr. Chairman, indeed it has been a very challenging year for people of rural Manitoba. With the BSE crisis, with the drought, with the high Canadian dollar, all of those things have impacted, with the PMU industry, but this number does not reflect that.

I believe this number reflects more the regulations that smoking has had on VLTs. Just as we talk about that, before we move further, I want to take this opportunity to also recog- nize the staff of the Department of Agriculture, Food and Rural Initiatives. It has not been an easy year. I want to commend staff, I have done this before and I will do it publicly now, to thank them for the work they have done. When we were dealing with BSE and trying to get new programs in and meet with producers, staff gave countless hours of overtime.

I am sure that many people do not realize how much work went in to work through this crisis to get us to where we are now. Hopefully, the crisis will be over and it will be an easier year, but certainly it was regional staff, staff throughout the regions, staff here at the centre, in the executive, all staff were very committed and I want to recognize them for their hard work as we worked through this difficult time. Mr.

Penner: I just want to say to the minister this, that if this NDP government was as committed to the agricultural community and to rural communities as they say they are, they would have found in the increased revenue that they have seen over the last, I think it is 1.2 billion increased revenue that they have seen in the last three and a half years, they would have found at least $1.2 million to keep those funds at least at the same level they were previously, under the Department of Intergovernmental Affairs. They could have moved some of that money, even though the minister said this is formula-based.

That should not stop the Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Initiatives to underpin those items in her department where there are significant declines in revenue. Ms. Wowchuk: Mr. Chairperson, that is a really interesting comment. When we brought the Budget forward, we heard the members of the Opposition say, "You know, this Government cannot make tough decisions. This Government just has a spend- ing problem. They want to keep spending and spending." We have had several suggestions now from my critic here. Now he is saying we should have put

May 6, 2004 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1717 more money into this line. He has said in the past we should run a deficit. We also know now that it was his plan to raise sales tax up by 1 percent so that they could cover education tax. They never told us during the election that was their intention. But I find it quite interesting that on one hand you say, "Why can you not make any tough decisions? You cannot make any tough decisions.

Why can you not cut back your spending?" They will say that in the House; then, when they get into the individual departments they say, "Oh, you should be spending more money on this line," when you do not care. Well, I am quite proud of the level that we have been able to maintain this budget. Where is the level? He should check back the records of where the level of agriculture funding was under his adminis- tration and where it is now. I think that we could stand very proud looking at what we have been able to put forward in this budget.

I could state very clearly, and I will to any farmer that I visit and to any rural community that I visit, that this Government is committed to rural Manitoba. Mr. Penner: I am not going to debate this any further. I just want to say to the minister that I have had the opportunity, I guess, to be the critic when we hit an historic low in net incomes in the province of Manitoba. Clearly, we should put on the record that it was an NDP government that governed at the time, and that is not the first time that has happened in Canada. We have seen very significant declines in revenues when the NDP governed.

I believe it is time the minister recognized the contribution that agriculture makes to the economy of the province of Manitoba, and also that the minister recognizes that less than 2 percent of the total budget is now accrued to agriculture when, in fact, agriculture generates probably in the neighbour- hood of 18 percent of the gross income for the province of Manitoba, in all the industries that are dependent on the primary sector for its products, for manufacturing, processing and others. * (15:40) So, regardless of how proud the minister wants to be for a net decline of revenues, and I also want to put this on the record, that the minister refers to the Premier (Mr.

Doer) and the body he put in place to review educational funding. That report was in numerous people's hands in this province two weeks prior to it being tabled, brought forward and introduced in the Legislature. Many people had seen that report, including my self. I referred, in an interview, what they reported to, not to the report, but to increased revenue flows that the Government was considering based on that report, which reflected a bit over 1 percent. I think the term I used was exact i n t h a t r e s p o n s e .

I j u s t w a n t t o m a k e s u r e t h a t t h e minister, it does not become frivolous in her attempt to politicize the Estimates into other areas than what she is responsible for. Ms. Wowchuk: I read clearly what the member was referring to. The member stated clearly what his party's intention was. That was that they could address education taxes by raising sales tax by 1 percent. With respect to the report, yes, the member obviously had a leaked copy of a draft report. We have indicated very clearly that we are waiting for a final report from that committee, but I want to also correct the record.

The member is talking about farm cash receipts being down to zero. In fact that is not true. As a result, I want to say net cash receipts may be down by $504,000 in 2003. It could be down to 44 percent, but realized net income could decline 22 percent, or $117 million. Again, the member wants to paint a gloomier picture. There is no doubt the situation is very serious. Farmers are carrying a huge amount of inventory that has been built up, but our farmers are very innovative people.

They always step up to the challenge, and I always look at this and say, "Well, maybe out of this challenge, there will be new opportunities." We have to look at those new opportunities. Mr. Chairperson, how can we add value to our agriculture products? Rather than thinking about doom and gloom all the time as the member tends to, I would ask him to look at the producers out there who have been very creative and looked at new opportunities not only this year when we had the BSE crisis, but if you look at what producers have done when we lost the sugar beet industry, the bean industry grew out of that.

Now we have a large soybean crop. Our producers look at the market, and they plant accordingly because they know what the markets are.

1718 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 6, 2004 I want to continue to work through our depart- ment on new initiatives that will see us adding value and creating jobs in Manitoba based on the many products we have and produce in this province. Mr. Chairperson: Any further comments? I will reread the resolution then. Resolution 3.6. RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $17,356,200 for Agriculture, Food and Rural Initiatives, Rural and Northern Community Economic Development, for the fiscal year ending the 31st day of March, 2005. Resolution agreed to. Resolution 3.7.

RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $2,693,300 for Agriculture, Food and Rural Initiatives, Policy and Economics, for the fiscal year ending the 31st day of March, 2005. Resolution agreed to. Resolution 3.8. RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $3,219,300 for Agriculture, Food and Rural Initiatives, Agriculture Research and Development, for the fiscal year ending the 31st day of March, 2005. Resolution agreed to. Resolution 3.9.

RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $516,400 for Agriculture, Food and Rural Initiatives, Costs Related to Capital Assets, for the fiscal year ending the 31st day of March, 2005. Resolution agreed to. The last item to be considered for the Estimates of this department is item 3.1.(

a) Minister's Salary, contained in Resolution 3.1. At this point, we request that the minister's staff leave the table for the consideration of this last item. The floor is open for questions. Mr. Penner: I just want to ask the minister about staffing in her office. Is Kathleen McCallum still on staff in your office? Ms. Wowchuk: No. Mr. Penner: I wonder if the mini ster can tell us where Miss McCallum has been placed or where she is working now. Ms. Wowchuk: Miss McCallum has moved to another department of government. Mr. Penner: Is she working in the department now or is she working in a minister's office? Ms.

Wowchuk: She is not in my department at all or in my office. Mr. Penner: Is she working in a departmental position in government? Ms. Wowchuk: Kathleen McCallum works in Economic Development– Mr. Chairperson: Honourable Minister, complete your answer. Ms. Wowchuk: Miss Kathleen McCallum works at Community Economic Development. Mr. Penner: As a departmental employee? Ms. Wowchuk: No. Mr. Penner: Is Jason Woywada still employed with your office? Ms. Wowchuk: No, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Penner: Can you tell me where he is working currently? Ms. Wowchuk: Jason Woywada works in the caucus office. Mr.

Penner: He works for your caucus now? Ms. Wowchuk: Yes, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Penner: How about Stacey Soldier? She was an EA in Agriculture. Is she still an EA in Agriculture? Ms. Wowchuk: No, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Penner: Where does she work now? Ms. Wowchuk: Stacey Soldier is a student.

May 6, 2004 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1719 Mr. Penner: She is a student? So she is at a university? Ms. Wowchuk: She is a student and she is not in my department. I am not sure which university she is at. Mr. Penner: I am sorry, I cannot hear the minister if we have a bunch of people talking. Mr. Chairperson: It is hard to hear. Just keep the noise down a bit. Thank you. Ms. Wowchuk: Stacey Soldier is not with my department. She has left the government and she is a student at one of the universities. Mr.

Penner: Can the minister tell us, then, who her staff currently is and what their positions are and what their salaries are? Ms. Wowchuk: My staff is Gord Gilmour, who is my special assistant, and Lisa Bukoski, who is my executive assistant. Mr. Penner: Could you tell me what the salaries are for Mr. Gilmour? Ms. Wowchuk: The member should have asked this question when I had staff here, because I am not sure of the exact level of salary that they are at, but I can tell you that Mr. Gilmour is at an SPA level and Ms. Bukoski is at an EXA level. * (15:50) Mr.

Penner: Thank you, and could the minister tell me what the staffing levels are and exactly what level they have been employed at. Ms. Wowchuk: Yes, I just said Mr. Gilmour, as my special assistant, is an SPA, and Ms. Bukoski is an EXA. I will give you those salary numbers in a moment. Do you have another question? I do not have the exact number of that salary, but I will provide those to the member in a moment. Mr. Penner: We can proceed. Mr. Chairperson: Resolution 3.1.

RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $2,709,200 for Agriculture, Food and Rural Initiatives, Administration and Finance, for the fiscal year ending the 31st day of March, 2005. Resolution agreed to. This completes the Estimates of the Department of Agriculture, Food and Rural Initiatives. The next set of Estimates to be cons idered by this

section of the Committee of Supply is for the Department of Education, Citizenship and Youth. Shall we briefly recess to allow the minister and critics the opportunity to prepare for the commence- ment of the next set of Estimates? [Agreed] Short recess. The committee recessed at 3:52 p.m. ________ The committee resumed at 4:04 p.m. EDUCATION, CITIZENSHIP AND YOUTH Mr. Chairperson (H arry Schellenberg) : Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This

section of the Committee of Supply will now be considering the Estimates of the Department of Education, Citizenship and Youth. Does the honourable minister have an opening statement? Hon. Peter Bjornson (M inister of Education, Citizenship and Youth): Thank you for this oppor- tunity. It is with great pleasure and an honour to represent Manitoba Education, Citizenship and Youth as minister for the first time in this process.

I hope to provide some context to our budget and mention highlights that indicate how judiciously and effectively education fundi ng has been spent in the recent Budget and is budg eted for the coming year. Pardon me, in the recent past and as it is budgeted for the coming year. The two education departments, Education, Citizenship and Youth and Advanced Education and Training, work co-operatively to present a unified direction for education and training in Manitoba. Mr. Chairperson, Education, Citizenship and Youth has responsibility for primary, elementary and

1720 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 6, 2004 secondary English and French education, enhancing citizenship, and a youth portfolio. Its mission is to provide access to relevant education that is of high quality, affordable, available and responsive. An educated citizenry and a skilled and adaptable work- force are key components of this Government's economic development agenda. On September 30, 2003, public schools served 188 498 pupils; 123 757 in kindergarten to Grade 8; 61 122 in Senior 1 to Senior 4; 2211 nursery pupils; and 1408 in ungraded programs.

There were 12 930 eligible pupils attending funded independent schools. Mr. Chairperson, funding to independent schools is available for instruction and services, special needs and curriculum materials. To meet our commitments in the 2004-2005 fiscal year, which is differe nt than the school year, $897.2 million will be provided to support school divisions, districts, independent schools, educational organizations and the Government's contribution to the Teachers' Retirement Allowances Fund. Mr. Chairman, $847.7 million is included in support to schools and $31.5 million in capital grants for school divisions.

In addition, $174.4 million is provided for public schools by funding raised through the education support levy. The Budget for 2004-2005 includes a funding increase of $17.6 million to ensure that schools have the resources to meet students' needs. This is an increase of 2 percent over 2003-2004, and brings a total increase since 1999 to $105 million. This Government is meeting its commitment to increase education funding at or above the rate of economic growth in the province. The average per-pupil support has thusly increased 14.6 percent in five years compared to 2.3 percent in the five years prior to 1999.

This demonstrates the value that we place on education and assures school division s and schools that this Government will do its part to address their increasing costs. The elementary and seco ndary school system is supported primarily through two divisions of the department; School Programs and Bureau de l'éducation française. Their priorities are articulated in the kindergarten to Senior 4 agenda.

My department will continue to build on recent K to Senior 4 accomplishments such as improved planning and accountability; provincial reporting on student performance and achievement; support for priority educational needs su ch as early literacy and numeracy and actions addressed at student services, such as introducing legislation to ensure appropriate educational programming for all students; adding $3.4 million for special needs programming, bring- ing the total increase under this Government to $27.4 million; and expanding funding for counselling and guidance support to include pupils in kindergarten to Grade 4 at a rate of $20 per eligible pupil.

Our 2004-2005 Budget also includes major new or enhanced commitments that I will highlight. First, arts and education: We have committed to increase our funding over the course of this Government's mandate to $1 million, beginning with $100,000 this year to support teaching the arts in schools. The first step will be to develop a new arts curriculum. The citizenship agenda: We have earmarked $100,000 to create a teach er's institute at the Legislature that will give social studies teachers an immersion in the workings of parliamentary democracy.

Citizenship is also supported by other initiatives: our new social studies curriculum, the community service cred it option for secondary students, youth town hall meetings with ministers, the relatively new Manitoba free Youth Advisory Council, and student exchanges. * (16:10) The education of Aboriginal students: We have a particular concern for Aboriginal students. While results have improved, their high school graduation rates continue to concern us.

Our action plan for Aboriginal education focusses on increasing high school graduation rates, increasing the number of Aboriginal teachers, pa rental and community involvement in education, improving access to post- secondary education and training, and working to ensure a smooth transition to the labour market. For 2004-2005, we are budgeting $400,000 for staff to support this action plan. Of note, we are also discussing a multi-year collaboration on effective Aboriginal education with the Canadian Millennium Scholarship Foundation.

Technical Vocational Education Initiative: The technical vocational initiative was just announced as a joint project of my department and Manitoba

May 6, 2004 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1721 Advanced Education and Training, involving an investment of $4.5 million over three years. This well-received initiative will improve high school programming and upgrade technical vocational equipment in high schools. It will strengthen links between high school, apprenticeship, and college programs. It provides grants for demonstration projects to increase their number and variety. Mr.

Chairperson, this initiative will make tech- nical vocational education more responsive to labour market needs, help prepare Manitobans for the highly skilled occupations that are so important to our economy and improve Manitoba's economic growth and competitiveness over the long term. It will also encourage new teachers to enter this field and increase students' aw areness of technical voca- tional career choices.

Future to Discover: We are also involved with the Future to Discover program, a five-year Canada Millennium Scholarship Foundation research project that will track 1000 students across the province from Senior 2 to the first year after graduation. The project will operate over five years with all operating costs covered by the foundation. This project will study specific activities that enhance preparation for graduation and help us make policy and program decisions on career development and the paths to post-secondary education.

Youth Initiatives: I am pleased that my depart- ment co-ordinates over 200 government programs for youth ranging from Green Teams, CareerFocus, Youth NOW, Partners for Careers, the STEP program, and the revamped Young Entrepreneurs Program that offers two new initiatives. Skill development for young entrepreneurs will give young people grants to defray the cost of completing an accredited business-related training course and Aboriginal Youth Mean Business! will improve supports for Aboriginal youth who have either started or plan to start their own business. Mr.

Chairperson, the current voluntary Grade 6 and Senior 1 standards te sts have not served the purpose of providing a provincial picture of student performance. We need to spend our assessment dollars more effectively. We are committing our- selves this year to work with our partners to develop an assessment approach that will have the greatest positive impact on student learning while being cost- effective and sustainable into the future. Our 2004-2005 Budget also continues to target tax relief where it is most needed.

The Education Support Levy on residential property will decrease by a further $10 million, in keeping with our promise to gradually reduce the burden on property taxes for a total of $37.1 million over the past three years. There is also a major commitment to capital funding for schools.

The capital support program for 2004-2005 will be $35 million: $14.2 million for the major capital program will include funding for nine previously approved capital projects; $16.7 million for infrastructure projects such as mechanical sys- tems, roofing and structural improvements; just over $4 million for ongoing capital support projects such as making facilities more accessible for disabled students, portables and for vocational technical projects.

I wanted to note that as part of the 2004-2005 schools capital program, the Government authorized the Public Schools Finance Board to early tender approximately $7 million worth of capital projects. Between January and April of 2004, the Public Schools Finance Board was able to realize almost $2 million in savings as a result of favourable market conditions. Since 2000, the Government has provided more than $288 million in capital funding for public schools. This is an increase of almost $135 million from the previous five-year period. Members of the committee, these are my opening comments.

I trust that you share my pride in what our province's education system is accom- plishing and its vision for the future. I look forward to discussing our directions and budget with you. Mr. Chairperson: We thank the minister for those comments. Does the official opposition

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	38-2-34b
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	38th 2nd hansardpdf 34b.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	12edef3dcfc7e9fd079d996f8db1fc2b976c2467

Source file is stored in the law ingest library (pdf).