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October 16, 2000

37th Parliament, 1st Session

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Hansard Transcripts

vol. A

Hansard Transcripts

vol. B

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcript 2000-Oct-16 vol. A (PDF)

L089A - Mon 16 Oct 2000 / Lun 16 oct 2000

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION

CANADIAN CURLING ASSOCIATION

HEALTH CARE FUNDING

MIDDLE EAST PEACE

PUBLIC LIBRARY WEEK

HOSPITAL FUNDING

INTERNET SECURITY

MUNICIPAL REPORT CARDS

PROSPERITY 2000

VISITORS

MEMBERS' PRIVILEGES

VISITORS

MOTIONS

HOUSE SITTINGS

TOM WELLS

ORAL QUESTIONS

TRUCKING INDUSTRY

WALKERTON TRAGEDY

ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION

TRUCKING INDUSTRY

FARM TAX REBATE PROGRAM

CONSTRUCTION INDUSTRY LABOUR RELATIONS

DRINKING AND DRIVING

MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES

POVERTY AMONG SENIORS

ACADEMIC TESTING

NATIVE CHILDREN'S SERVICES

STUDENT ASSISTANCE

COLLECTIVE BARGAINING

NOTICE OF DISSATISFACTION

PETITIONS

NORTHERN HEALTH TRAVEL GRANT

HIGHWAY SAFETY

MCMICHAEL CANADIAN ART COLLECTION

OCCUPATIONAL HEALTH AND SAFETY

NORTHERN HEALTH TRAVEL GRANT

CHILD POVERTY

HUNTING IN WILDERNESS PARKS

FARMFARE

HEALTH CARE FUNDING

NORTHERN HEALTH TRAVEL GRANT

HIGHWAY SIGNS

OCCUPATIONAL HEALTH AND SAFETY

ROYAL ASSENT / SANCTION ROYALE

ORDERS OF THE DAY

SOCIAL HOUSING REFORM ACT, 2000 / LOI DE 2000 SUR LA RÉFORME DU LOGEMENT SOCIAL

The House met at 1330.

Prayers.

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION

Mr Steve Peters (Elgin-Middlesex-London): As the Walkerton inquiry begins today, all of Ontario is eager to find the answers to why this tragedy occurred and what steps are needed to ensure it will never happen again. Finger pointing and laying blame will not solve anything. What is needed is leadership to ensure that our legacy is a cleaner environment.

For decades, Ontario farmers have taken great pride in being responsible stewards of the earth. The Ontario Farm Environmental Coalition, formed in 1991, demonstrated great leadership by introducing the environmental farm plan. Over 18,000 farmers in Ontario have participated in this program. OFEC developed a nutrient management planning strategy to provide guidance to municipalities in preparation of bylaws. The leadership and foresight of our farmers and agricultural communities should be commended.

We need assurance from this government that they are committed to resolving the issues surrounding safe drinking water. The renewal of such programs as Clean Up Rural Beaches and funding for infrastructure are desperately needed. Ontario farm organizations have long been calling for province-wide guidelines to replace the current patchwork that exists.

All of us collectively have a responsibility to protect our environment. No one has the right to pollute: not farmers, not businesses, not government, not municipalities and not individual citizens. All of us here and in the upper galleries share the same goal: to have a clean, safe environment.

CANADIAN CURLING ASSOCIATION

Mr Brian Coburn (Ottawa-Orléans): I rise today to welcome the Canadian Curling Association, or CCA, to the Taylor Creek Business Park in my riding of Ottawa-Orléans. This association recently turned sod at their new $750,000, 5,000-square-foot headquarters on Taylor Creek Drive and Vimont Court.

As all members of this House are well aware, the sport of curling is thriving in Canada. We have one of the most successful organizations in the world, with numerous world championships at the junior, men's, women's, mixed and senior levels. Indeed, the curling club in Canada is a very tight-knit community, and that's why I believe the CCA's move into Orléans is a perfect fit.

Earlier this year the curling world and indeed Canada as a whole were saddened by the loss of one of this country's athletic heroes. Sandra Schmirler was a legend in the curling community, winning countless championships, including gold at the last Winter Olympics. She brought a new excitement to this sport and played a large role in making it as popular as it is today. The passion and commitment of Mrs Schmirler will live on as Canada continues to bring home world championships to display at the CCA's new headquarters in Orléans.

The sport of curling in this country is indeed thriving, and I welcome the Canadian Curling Association to its new home in my riding.

HEALTH CARE FUNDING

Ms Caroline Di Cocco (Sarnia-Lambton): The community-based health and social services organizations in Sarnia-Lambton, such as Senior VIP, the Canadian Mental Health Association and the VON, are being forced to absorb statutory pay equity costs for 1999-2000 without additional revenue to meet these costs.

The Harris government capped pay equity funding at December 31, 1998, levels. The Pay Equity Act, effective January 1 of each year, translates into increased costs to the community health services. These health services cannot continue to absorb these costs. For example, the Canadian Mental Health Association will be forced to reduce services effective January 1, 2001. The specific impact will mean that eight people per week will not receive services. In one year that means that 416 hours of services to people with serious and persistent mental illness will be lost to Sarnia-Lambton.

This is occurring at a time when people with serious mental illness require these services and have to wait an unacceptable length of time, frequently up to one year, because the organizations do not have adequate resources to meet the current demand. Moreover, this is added cost. It is occurring at a time when responsibility for care and treatment is increasingly being shifted away from hospitals and in favour of community health services.

MIDDLE EAST PEACE

Mr Peter Kormos (Niagara Centre): For 50 years Palestinians have been denied statehood. That's five decades of struggle for sovereign recognition, for basic human rights and dignity and for such necessities as food and shelter in a very hostile environment. Recently and once again this conflict has taken a violent turn, costing over 100 lives, including children. We share the sorrow of Ontario's Palestinian community at the recent turn of events in their homeland. We also share in the sorrow and we regret and mourn all loss of life.

The federal NDP is demanding that Canada use whatever means available to it, including its seat on the Security Council, to fight for UN involvement to put an end to the violence and the bloodshed. We also support Amnesty International's call for an independent inquiry into the excessive use of force by the Israeli military. Canada can and must play a role in furthering the cause of justice and in finding a peaceful solution to the problems plaguing the Middle East.

No more Palestinians, no more Israelis must die, and the bloodshed must come to an end. The aggression against unarmed civilians must stop. There must be a just peace that restores dignity, equality and human rights in Palestine, and without justice there can be no peace. There can be no peace without a withdrawal of the Israeli military occupation of Palestine and without a withdrawal of Israeli settlements which encircle and strangle historic Palestinian communities.

We speak up for the rights of Palestinians to create their own independent state and for the right of refugees to return to their own homes and lands in peace.

PUBLIC LIBRARY WEEK

Mr John O'Toole (Durham): It gives me great pleasure to rise in the House and to join with Minister Johns to celebrate the first day of Public Library Week in Ontario and to express my support for our libraries and their contribution to communities across Ontario.

In my riding of Durham we are fortunate to have the Clarington Public Library system, under the directorship of Cynthia Mearns and board chair Craig Brown and other members such as Don Peable, and the Scugog Memorial Public Library, under the directorship of Tom Bonanno, Chair Pat Melligan and Ken Carruthers, just to name a couple.

For years now these libraries have provided an invaluable service to residents of Bowmanville, Orono, Courtice, Newcastle, Port Perry and all communities in between. In fact, their service has been increasing in popularity in recent years, with circulation at the Clarington library growing by 60% since 1995 and by 50% at the Scugog library over the same period.

To celebrate library week this year, Clarington has expanded and enhanced its service, now opening its doors to readers on Sundays and making its catalogue available on the Internet for the first time. Scugog marked library week with the launch of a book by author and retired teacher Dwayne Darlington. His children's book Toejam and other Poems was an immediate success, selling more than 30 copies at the event.

As governments across the country work to promote literacy and early childhood education, we can look to our libraries as an historic and excellent resource.

I want to commend the volunteer boards, members and staff of the Clarington and Scugog libraries, as well as all libraries in Ontario, for their leadership, and thank them for providing the residents of my constituency wide access to the world of information in the resources of books.

HOSPITAL FUNDING

Mr Rick Bartolucci (Sudbury): Today I urge the Minister of Health to pay her bills, honour her commitments and act upon the requests of our hospital administrators, who are desperately urging the minister to rectify the financial plight of the Sudbury Regional Hospital.

Our hospital has requested the minister to do two things: provide emergency financial relief and undertake a review of hospital operations so she can learn at first hand that the current funding picture she painted is not accurate.

Currently our hospital, like 77% of other Ontario hospitals, is bleeding a deficit because of the Harris government's mismanagement of health care reform. After only three years, the Sudbury Regional Hospital is facing a running deficit of $40 million.

To add insult to injury, the health minister has repeatedly turned her back on our hospitals, even when she was informed that we were facing a desperate physician shortage and needed immediate funding relief. Her answer was a flat no, which forced the hospital to spend $6 million it just didn't have.

To date, the minister has yet to repay our hospital the $10.6 million for restructuring costs. These are bills paid by the hospital and forwarded to the ministry to be reimbursed. How deadbeat can you get?

The dynamics of our community have changed. Our hospital's acting chief administrative officer and the community now speak with one voice, and we demand that the minister act and act now. We are asking for immediate financial relief and an operational review now.

INTERNET SECURITY

Mr Joseph Spina (Brampton Centre): On October 2, I had the honour of attending the launch of an Internet safety campaign held by the Internet safety committee in Peel. This committee's primary efforts have been concentrating on protecting children from being victimized by sexual predators who use the Internet.

The 19-member committee was initiated by Peel Regional Police Chief Noel Catney, and has representatives from the police, the regional council, the Peel Board of Education, the Dufferin-Peel separate board and volunteer organizations along with the corporate private sector. At this time, Peel is the only municipal police service in the province to have taken such a proactive step.

Although the Internet can be used as a great learning resource, it can also be very dangerous as more and more sexual predators surf the Internet looking for young victims. The main objective of this committee is to educate students and their parents through the introduction of Internet safety guidelines, called cyberproofing. It's anticipated that in the first year of operation, 107,000 students within the region of Peel will be educated through about 300 schools on Internet safety guidelines. Children aged 8 to 15 are the ideal ones we all want to protect.

We want to congratulate Peel Regional Police and the various partners for another forward-thinking initiative.

MUNICIPAL REPORT CARDS

Mr Ted McMeekin (Ancaster-Dundas-Flamborough-Aldershot): Recently, the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing made comment relating to the introduction of municipal report cards. That caught many municipal leaders by surprise, and I can tell you that after speaking to many of those same municipal leaders, I can report to this Legislature that the minister's announcement is being greeted with a combination of amusement, bewilderment and outright confusion.

There is profound lament among municipal leaders that this initiative was taken without proper consultation. There was no attempt to define what information is currently being gathered, what new information needs to be gathered, how that is different from what is currently in place and, frankly, how that would be used.

The idea of benchmarking is nothing new to municipal leaders. We've been doing that for years. In fact, the fear of this report card is that it will be used as a tool, as a club to penalize efficient municipalities-and I speak from some experience, having had the privilege of serving as mayor of the only municipality in all Ontario that actually lowered taxes six years in a row-that it will actually be used to forcibly merge inefficient municipalities with those that are more efficient.

In the opinion of municipal leaders, the only way to proceed is to consult, to partner and to build and enhance the links with municipalities. We need municipal report cards, but we need to link them with provincial support cards as well.

PROSPERITY 2000

Mr R. Gary Stewart (Peterborough): Recently, Peterborough and area suppliers and buyers of goods and services were given an opportunity to see what is offered by local providers of quality goods and services. The Greater Peterborough Chamber of Commerce organized a trade show in Peterborough on September 26 and 27 entitled Prosperity 2000. This was truly a unique idea to promote the use of goods and services from within the business community locally rather than constantly looking internationally.

Prosperity 2000 was a tremendous success. Over 80 businesses contracted with the chamber of commerce to rent space, and almost 1,200 people attended the show as visitors, buyers and sellers.

Companies in Peterborough and surrounding areas, like many companies in communities across this wonderful province, are creating and producing interesting products, much of which are currently being exported from the area. The Greater Peterborough Chamber of Commerce recognized that the time had come to market those goods and services and to showcase industry and business within our community.

I would like to commend the work of Peter McLean, president, and Doug Armstrong, general manager, of the Greater Peterborough Chamber of Commerce for a truly successful event, the birth of Prosperity 2000.

VISITORS

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): We have in the Speaker's gallery His Excellency the Honourable Hugh Desmond Hoyte, MP, Leader of the Opposition in the Parliament of Guyana. Please join me in welcoming our special guest.

Hon Tim Hudak (Minister of Northern Development and Mines): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: I just wanted to let the members know on behalf of the Minister of Natural Resources, John Snobelen, that we are very pleased to be joined today by members of the Young family, in the members' gallery. The Young family today donated Calder Island to become part of the Manitou Islands Provincial Nature Reserve, on the east side of Lake Nipissing. It is indeed, as everybody knows, a very generous donation. On behalf of the people of Ontario, I am very pleased to recognize and thank them for their kindness and their generosity.

MEMBERS' PRIVILEGES

Mr Dave Levac (Brant): On a point of privilege, Mr Speaker: Pursuant to standing order 23(i), I intend to raise a point of privilege today, Monday, October 16, 2000. The issue concerns

section 103 of the Child and Family Services Act. It states, under "Rights of communication etc" that:

"

(1) A child in care has a right,

"(

a) to speak in private with, visit and receive visits from members of his or her family regularly, subject to subsection (2);

"(

b) to speak in private with and receive visits from,

"(

i) the child's solicitor,

"(ii) another person representing the child, including an advocate appointed for the child by the Office of Child and Family Service Advocacy referred to in

section 102,

"(iii) the Ombudsman appointed under the Ombudsman Act and members of the Ombudsman's staff, and

"(iv) a member of the Legislative Assembly of Ontario or the Parliament of Canada; and

"(

c) to send and receive mail that is not read, examined or censored by another person, subject to subsection (3)."

By extension, Mr Speaker, under the Correctional Services Act,

section 59, I attended the Genest Youth Detention Centre in London, Ontario, on Friday, October 5, 2000. Upon my arrival at approximately 9:05, the supervisor was immediately notified in order to escort me through the facility, as I requested.

The detention centre was not in a state of insecurity or an emergency situation, as I requested, because I know that is not allowed under any of the sections. I was denied entry and informed that I would have to make arrangements through the Ministry of Community and Social Services.

I feel my rights as a member of the Legislative Assembly were infringed upon, since such a delay would have defeated my purpose under subsections in the act. That purpose was to provide a safe, quick and private manner for a child to speak to an elected member of the Legislature.

I would ask that you rule on this, Mr Speaker. I indicate to you clearly that I did all I could to indicate very clearly to the supervisors that I was there and understood the legislation and asked if there was an emergency or if there was a situation that required me not to be there. I was informed by the manager that she had not been to the floor and wasn't aware of any emergency. The supervisor, when contacted, indicated that he wasn't even present on the ground and indicated there was no such emergency taking place.

Again, Speaker, my rights were denied as a member of this Legislature.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): I thank the member for that point of privilege, and I will reserve my ruling.

Mr Peter Kormos (Niagara Centre): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: Further to the matter raised with you, Mr Levac told me what had occurred at Genest. He told me this matter was going to be raised today. I want to encourage the Speaker to consider this very, very seriously.

I appreciate, because of our bifurcated system of young offender facilities, that the senior level of young offenders are in centres administered by the Minister of Correctional Services and therefore under the Correctional Services Act, where

section 59, which Mr Levac has referred to, would specifically apply. That bifurcated system, of course, places the lower level, the junior level of young offenders, under the Minister of Community and Social Services. We should note that we're the only jurisdiction, as I recall it, in the country that still maintains that bifurcation.

I submit to you, Speaker, that the denial of entry to any member of the Legislature for purposes of examination or discussion with personnel or persons in custody or persons being cared for in that facility, regardless of the statute, is a very serious matter, especially when it isn't based on, as Mr Levac spoke to, the matter of there being an emergency or a state of crisis going on in there. I don't care whether it's a government member or a member of either of the two opposition parties, when there isn't that state going on, I think the denial of access to any member of the Legislative Assembly is an affront to the Legislature, to this Parliament.

All of us have responsibilities within this chamber but also outside this chamber. If we're going to be called upon to perform those responsibilities effectively and meaningfully, it means that members of the Legislature have to have reasonable access to provincial institutions or institutions that are supervised under provincial statute, whether they be transfer-of-payment agencies or otherwise.

Secondly, I ask the Speaker, in considering this point of privilege, to look at

section 59 and identify the rationale for

section 59. I submit that the Speaker should make reference to

section 59 and, by analogy, apply that very express right to those quasi-correctional institutions-I'll be generous in referring to them as that-those young offender facilities at the junior level. Surely if I have a right, and I do, as does any member of this assembly, to enter any correctional facility, be they adult facilities or young offender facilities, surely by analogy that right extends to young offender facilities, albeit they are administered by the Ministry of Community and Social Services, because the motive is the same, the rationale is the same, the interest being served is the same.

When this sort of occurrence happens, it causes suspicion about the reason for barring a member of the assembly. It puts a cloud over the institution and/or the administration, be it at the institutional level or the ministerial level, a cloud that is undeserved without any further investigation.

That sort of scenario is unacceptable to the people of Ontario, and I submit that this point is very relevant. It's very timely. I encourage the Speaker to give it serious consideration. I also encourage the Speaker to apply

section 59 by analogy and look at the broader interest being served and the fact that there has to be some stature possessed by members of the assembly that permits them to investigate and inquire so that they can do their jobs in a meaningful way. Otherwise backbenchers of all three caucuses become nobodies, not when they're 50 feet or 50 yards away from Queen's Park but even when they're sitting in their very seats.

Hon John R. Baird (Minister of Community and Social Services, minister responsible for francophone affairs): On the same point, Mr Speaker: I certainly agree with many of the comments by the member for Niagara Centre. Indeed, all members of the Legislative Assembly have the right to visit any of the young offender facilities managed by the Ministry of Community and Social Services. There's no disagreement whatsoever on that. Every member of the Legislature is entitled to visit any of our young offender facilities.

I understand that the member opposite presented himself, and there were a number of others in attendance. The individual had to make the confirmation and check that this was the case. He was invited to come back in, I guess, a little more than an hour and he would have been free to make a tour, accompanied by members of his legislative staff. He's certainly more than able to visit the Genest facility, as I have, or as any other member can, at any opportunity. If he would just provide an hour or two hours' notice or make an appointment the day before, they'd be very pleased to provide him with a tour.

I think that was the clear indication that was presented to the member when he presented himself for the tour.

Should you require any further information, Mr Speaker, I'd be pleased to provide it, or officials within the ministry would be.

The Speaker: I thank the member for Niagara Centre and the minister for their comments. I will reserve my ruling.

VISITORS

Hon Frank Klees (Minister without Portfolio): I would ask members of the House to help me welcome people from my riding, the Stouffville Seniors Association, who are here to observe the proceedings.

Mr Bert Johnson (Perth-Middlesex): They look younger than you, Frank.

Hon Mr Klees: Wonderful-looking people.

MOTIONS

HOUSE SITTINGS

Hon Frank Klees (Minister without Portfolio): Speaker, I move that pursuant to standing order 9(c)(

i) the House shall meet from 6:45 pm to 9:30 pm on Monday, October 16, Tuesday, October 17 and Wednesday, October 18, 2000, for the purpose of considering government business.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry?

All those in favour of the motion will please say "aye."

All those opposed will please say "nay."

In my opinion the ayes have it. Carried.

TOM WELLS

Hon Janet Ecker (Minister of Education): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: I believe we have unanimous consent of the House today to pay tribute to Mr Tom Wells.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Is there unanimous consent? Agreed.

Hon Mrs Ecker: It's certainly a privilege for me today, on behalf of my caucus, to rise to make some comments about a very fine former member of this Legislature. We have seen in the past that a number of distinguished members of the Conservative dynasty have succumbed to the passage of time.

Not only was Mr Wells a senior cabinet minister in the administration of both Premiers John Robarts and William Davis; he also was an education minister for six years. One of the things I have discovered as the current holder of that portfolio is that past ministers do continue to take a proprietary interest in education matters, and Mr Wells was no different. I had a number of wonderful conversations and received some good advice from him about handling of the portfolio, although times were quite different in those days.

He talked to me about when they had the first province-wide teacher strike and some 6,000 teachers, I understand, were gathered on the lawn at Queen's Park. He said that resolving that strike basically involved him and one or two members from the Premier's office and one or two members from the union. They sat in a hotel room one night, and a small group, over dinner and libations, on the back of an envelope, did the agreement that solved that particular strike.

I don't think that these days, with the battery of consultants and lawyers who are involved in all of the different levels, we could quite take that approach, but he said it had worked quite effectively. He wasn't suggesting that I should try that with some of our groups but he did make that comment which was rather interesting.

He served over 22 years and had a number of different portfolios, not only education. I'm told by people I've met that one of the things they remember about his time as education minister was the fact that they were allowed to watch Canada in the world hockey tournament in 1972. That was actually a ministerial decision to allow the schoolchildren to watch that on television. I've met people who have remembered him because of that. But he contributed much more as Minister of Education, and as Minister of Health when there was the introduction of medicare as we know it.

He was a government House leader in a minority House and helped facilitate a number of contentious issues through that time. He was Minister of Social and Family Services and Minister of Municipal Affairs. He covered the whole gamut of the government in his day.

He also had the privilege of serving as agent general on behalf of Ontario in England for about seven years, and many who travelled to London had the privilege of meeting him and to learn of the good work he was doing on behalf of Ontario, and Canadians, at that time.

I think he also will be remembered very fondly by people who dealt with him as a man of integrity, a man of great class and dignity; a man who won the Order of Ontario for his contributions. Also, as an aside, and I think many people in politics probably don't realize this, he led to the formation of constituency offices on behalf of all of the members here, something that I think has served all of us, and certainly the voters, very well over many years.

On a personal note, I know that in this House people are fond of teasing the whip or the Deputy Premier for their sartorial splendour and their well-coiffed hair, but Mr Wells did set quite a standard in that regard for what he wore and how he was dressed. As many have remarked, the press gallery was fond of referring to him as "the man from Glad" because of his immaculate presentation at all times, no matter what the stresses and the strains were.

So certainly the sympathies and the condolences of this caucus, as of all our colleagues in the House, go out to his wonderful wife, Audrey, his son, Andrew, and his daughters, Brenda and Beverley, and their two grand-children. As one of the writers in the media said, "He was a classic politician of the old school," and that is in the most positive sense.

Mr Gerry Phillips (Scarborough-Agincourt): I am pleased on behalf of my leader, Dalton McGuinty, and the Liberal caucus to say a few words about Tom Wells. I knew Tom for, I guess, 35 years; he became quite a good friend.

The Minister of Education outlined his extraordinary career here as an MPP for 22 years. He was the Minister of Health, I think, when medicare came in. He was the Minister of Education during some challenging times and did a terrific job there. He was the Minister of Municipal Affairs-I think they called it Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs then-right at the end of some substantial change there, and he was also the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs when the Constitution was repatriated; so he was at the centre of some of the major changes in the province of Ontario.

I actually have never heard a bad word about Tom Wells, which is quite extraordinary.

But I want to talk a little bit about Agincourt, because that's where I knew Tom very well, obviously. He never forgot the constituency. I think someone who plays a big role here in the province can, at their own peril, ignore the constituency. Tom never did. The minister mentioned he opened a constituency office. Even in the toughest times, Tom would be strolling like he had not a care in the world through the Agincourt Mall in the middle of a major teacher dispute. There was Tom, always available, ever available to constituents.

I've thought back on the 35 years; I don't think there's been a more respected politician in Scarborough that I can remember. He had universal respect; as I say, the most respected politician in Scarborough.

He was unbeatable. I was one of the six who took a run at him; I didn't make it and neither did the other five. We actually had a contested nomination to pick the Liberal candidate to run against Tom Wells-believe it or not, a contested nomination. There were eight people there-the guest speaker and seven others-that's how much we felt we could beat Tom Wells. That wasn't the year I ran, that was 1967; I ran against Tom in 1975 and I remember the advice was, "You've got to attack Tom." I said, "Well, attack him on what?" He was unassailable, he was a decent person, and I said furthermore that if I did attack him nobody would believe me, because he had that kind of reputation.

The two big things I remember that Tom, among others, did for the riding: Scarborough Grace Hospital exists because of Tom Wells, there's no question about that, as does the Tam O'Shanter Golf Course. Right at the last minute it was ready to be filled in with apartment buildings and what not, and the community got involved in it and Tom got involved in it and saved it. I think well over a million rounds of golf have been played there since Tom and the community saved the Tam O'Shanter Golf Club. I have accounted for three or four of those, but another million people have played it.

Seniors benefited enormously from Tom's work.

On a personal note, I remember one time we had a babysitter, a young lady, probably 25 years old, whose child was killed on a Friday night, a five-year-old child. She came from Newfoundland and she wanted to somehow or other get the child home. I phoned Tom, probably late on a Friday night, and he had it solved. He found a way over the weekend to make sure that young person was allowed to go home.

I was in the hospital myself, a year and a half ago, to have a little hip operation-nothing, just a hip replacement. But who appeared at my door? Tom and Audrey. They were a team, by the way. In Scarborough it was always Tom and Audrey, his lovely wife. You never had to say "Wells"; it was always "Tom and Audrey."

So, on behalf of my caucus, and I know my colleague Alvin will want to say a couple of words, I just want to say how much we respected Tom, Audrey and the family-Brenda and Beverley and Andrew. He will be well missed. He did a terrific job for the province.

Mr Alvin Curling (Scarborough-Rouge River): I too would like to pay tribute to a remarkable gentleman. I think Abigail Tator stated it well when she wrote in the Scarborough Mirror, "Tom Wells is a true gentleman."

Tom was a man of great character and distinction, a statesman and a visionary. The fact is that I was the one who, not knowing the history at all, felt that we had to put a Liberal candidate against this gentleman. I just knew him as a wonderful man. Not knowing what it takes to run an election campaign, I got in there and I started knocking at doors and things like that, and the fact was that at the time Tom came up to congratulate me for entering the race. He didn't say anything to the effect that "You're going to lose"; it was the fact that I was entering. To my great surprise, he came and told me he was going to step down. So he stood down at that time in 1985 and I ran.

I had understood in the process that the area was the largest electoral area in Canada. It had 414 polls, and the last time a contestant had gone against Tom Wells they got one and Tom won 413 of those polls. I was in the middle of all of that, and when he quit I felt I would be massacred.

In my own statements in the campaign I said some rather stupid things. I remember I said that when I was finished with Tom Wells, he would be carrying my bags. Then after winning that election, the first call I got was from Tom Wells in England who called me to congratulate me that I won.

Sometimes when you ask for things you do get them. I was asked to go to England just after as a cabinet minister, and, as the agent general, Tom Wells came to meet me. The first thing he said was, "Welcome, Mr Minister, to London, England. May I take your bags, please," and I said to Tom, "I really can't do this." He said, "It's all right, Mr Minister." I said, "No, I can't. I'll explain to you later in the car." Then when I explained to him in the car, he thought it was rather funny; I felt rather ridiculous at that.

I felt so comfortable with Tom, the man, as an individual. He was always there for advice and he was always there to support me in whatever he could. Some people have stated here that he held many prominent posts, but I did not see him as the man in these rather prominent posts. He was a gentleman, a really respectable individual.

I of course had these huge shoes to fit my feet into, and as I've gone along I've kept in mind Tom Wells, a man of such stature, such a gentleman. All along he was a friend. It was of course a shock to me when I heard that Tom had passed away. Just a couple of hours before that I was asking Gerry about him, and Gerry said, "Tom is not well," and a few hours afterward I heard that he had died.

We want to say that Tom had such a position in Scarborough-Rouge River, as it is called today. The place is so huge that, as you know, Gerry Phillips, myself and other people now share that large area. We see him as a respectable man, a man of vision and a man we all will remember for years to come. You know that he was a part of the Toronto bid to host Expo `98, and he was named to the Order of Ontario.

He leaves his wife, Audrey, whom we all know; his son, Andrew; his daughters, Brenda and Beverley; and two grandchildren.

We want to wish him well. Scarborough will always remember this great statesman, this friend, this wonderful man.

Mr David Christopherson (Hamilton West): It's my honour to rise today and pay tribute to Mr Tom Wells on behalf of the NDP caucus. It has already been mentioned that he was known as "the man from Glad" to many people in Ontario, certainly to reporters, but those who worked with and knew Mr Tom Wells remember him as a young upstart, freshly elected into the provincial Legislature during the 1963 landslide, when the Conservatives not only won this place but for the first time ever there was a gaggle of Conservatives on this side of the House because of the overflow.

They referred to themselves as "a gaggle." Of course, the last time that happened in this place, we referred to them fondly as "the rump," and I'm sure Mr Wells would have no problem with that title.

As part of the gaggle of government members sitting on this side of the House, he was quickly branded as a member of the "Chicago gang," a group of young Tories who had a reputation for coming into the House gunning at the opposition, but sometimes they fired at their own government too, again not unlike the recent rump that we had on this side of the House a few years back.

Mr Wells was a member of the Conservatives at a time when "Progressive" had a little more resonance than some of us feel it has today. As Mr Wells himself remembered, "We used to make a bit of noise." None of that seemed to do him any harm. Three years after Tom Wells was first elected to the Legislature, he joined the cabinet and went on to take over the health ministry in 1969, just as medicare was coming on stream. During his political career, Tom Wells would go on to hold ministerial portfolios in social and family services, education, intergovernmental affairs and serve as government House leader.

As the Toronto Star wrote in its tribute to Tom Wells, "He was at the hub of Progressive Conservative rule in Ontario for 22 years, almost from the time he was first elected MPP for Scarborough North in 1963 until he stepped down undefeated in 1985," 22 years of political leadership and not a single defeat.

But a political resumé does little justice to Tom Wells, who was known on both sides of the House as a man of integrity, as someone who tried to find commonalities rather than thrive on differences. He was inclusive, not exclusive, in his political approach.

During Tom Wells's reign as education minister, his focus was on educating all students, not simply on province-wide tests to root out the bad students and crack the whip on the education system. His philosophy was far more inclusive. He said, "It's not whether you pass examinations that is important. It is whether you can learn and adapt that knowledge."

As intergovernmental affairs minister, Tom Wells was very involved in the run-up to the 1981 constitutional agreement, which he viewed as one of Canada's success stories. He said, "I don't think anybody today believes you could write a constitution for any country in the world which wouldn't include a charter of rights and freedoms."

It was that fair and inclusive approach to politics which won Tom Wells praise from both sides of the Legislature. Even as the then Liberal leader, David Peterson, was busy criticizing Mr Wells's 1985 promotion to agent general as a patronage appointment, he was quick to offer praise about Mr Wells the person. He said, "Tom is a nice man. There is no question about that. He's basically a peacemaker."

In an interview in the mid-1990s, Tom Wells talked about his ability to bridge the political gap and get along with members on both sides of the Legislature:

"In those days we had a great bunch in the Legislature. We may have differed philosophically and had great battles, but we seemed to be friends with people in all parties. I remember getting along well with a number of Liberals and NDPers, sometimes to my disadvantage with members of my own caucus who used to say, `You can't be that friendly with all these people.' My philosophy of how the system works is that you do your business and defend your particular policies and beliefs in the House but, outside that place, we are all friends and are all elected to do the same job."

George Hutchison, one of Mr Wells's communications advisers, has said that Tom Wells "was an incredible politician in the best sense of the word, because he was able to bridge differences and find common ground. He had tremendous negotiations skills," as we've already heard the current education minister refer to. Tom Wells attributed those negotiating skills to his early days as an advertising director for the Canadian Medical Association Journal: "I was in selling before politics, and selling is selling, whether the product is advertising, a political image or Ontario."

For more than two decades, the electorate of Scarborough North bought Mr Wells's image of what Ontario should be. Today, as we mourn his passing, we pay tribute to the political statesman he was, and to the man of integrity we remember him to be.

On behalf of my leader, Howard Hampton, and the NDP caucus, I extend our condolences to the family and friends of a fine parliamentarian, Mr Tom Wells.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): I thank all of the members for their comments. I will make sure copies of Hansard go to the family.

ORAL QUESTIONS

TRUCKING INDUSTRY

Mrs Sandra Pupatello (Windsor West): My question is for the Minister of Economic Development and Trade. For months now, truckers have been losing hundreds of dollars a day, independent truckers who have kept our economy moving, because you promised action to help them cope with a 75% increase in their fuel costs. In spite of all the promises, nothing has happened; all you've done is talk. As they say, talk is cheap, Minister, and filling their gas tanks isn't. The truckers are tired of hearing the promises.

Minister, you promised action and the Ontario truckers are calling your bluff. We'd like to know today specifically what you intend to do to alleviate the situation with our truckers so we ensure the economy doesn't end up in the dumpster as a result of your failing to act before this crisis started.

Hon Al Palladini (Minister of Economic Development and Trade): Certainly, to quote the honourable member, what comes out of her mouth is cheap as well.

This government has been facilitating and trying to do things that are going to address the concerns truckers have as a whole within the Ontario industry. I believe we are making progress, and the fact is that it has taken us about 20 years to get to this particular point. I have every confidence the industry will come up with resolutions that will make it prosper and make it better in the long term.

Mrs Pupatello: Today the truckers are going broke. Talk is cheap, and all we've heard so far is that you were going to bring everybody to the table to talk. The truth is, the truckers were looking to you for part of the solution and you haven't offered any solution at all. You left a carrot dangling last week and said you hope you don't have to use it, but you have legislation just in case you have a crisis.

My question for the Minister of Economic Development and Trade is, what does the minister consider to be a crisis? Does he consider truckers parking and stopping the movement of product a crisis? In a just-in-time economy that Ontario has, is that considered a crisis? Were you serious about bringing forward legislation? Were you serious about coming to the table with a solution, as opposed to just inviting everybody to come and sit down at the table?

Hon Mr Palladini: We have been facilitating various meetings within the industry. We appointed an independent chairperson to oversee these meetings. I believe that certain headway has been made, progress has been made. As I said earlier, it is an unfortunate situation, but it's going to make more time to make sure that things are going to get addressed.

Our government has led by example. The fact that the Minister of Transportation made an announcement on Friday making retroactive a base price of January 1, that will instantly put money into the hands of these independent owner-operators. I have encouraged the industry. They are at the table, and they are facilitating and looking at how they can put more money in truckers' pockets.

These things will happen, but we need to sit and do it in an amicable fashion so we can resolve not just the fuel surcharge issue but other issues that confront the trucking industry as a whole.

Mrs Pupatello: To the Minister of Economic Development and Trade: the truckers are not at the table. They're parked at the side of the road. What you have is a crisis. Every economy in Ontario is being affected by the truckers who are not working today. What they are looking to you for is a solution.

Last week we asked the minister in this House a question. He could not come forward with a solution. The next day, the Premier had to walk in and draw up legislation within three hours for a solution. I'm asking the minister: isn't it time to call the Premier to the table? Is it not time to get the Premier of Ontario involved in finally finding a solution to a crisis that will grip Ontario and will bring all of our economy to a grinding halt? Minister, will you get the Premier involved in this solution?

Hon Mr Palladini: The honourable member would like to say to people or to the members of the Legislature that the Premier is not involved. The Premier is involved on a day-to-day basis on every issue within this government.

I have a tendency to speak too loudly. I'm going to try and keep my voice down so the members can hear me a little bit more.

I would like to tell the honourable members across the hall here that this government has acted very positively on this issue and we have made inroads to coming up with a solution that will be in the best interests long term.

I have encouraged working together because working together we are going to come to a resolution. I've also said that if industry does not respond, if industry does not come to the table, then this government will regulate the portion of the fuel surcharge access. We have said that and we are willing to do that, but I have a lot of faith within the industry that it will not be the solution that we are all looking for.

WALKERTON TRAGEDY

Mrs Sandra Pupatello (Windsor West): My question is for the Acting Premier. I'd like to read a letter from Jamie McDonald who writes,

"My wife and I and our three young children reside in Walkerton.

"Not only have we had to cope with the ongoing water woes but we also had to cope with having two of our three children hospitalized in London due to serious complications of an E coli outbreak."

Today, "All cooking, washing of food and cleanup is done with bottled water.

"In order to give the children a cleansing bath, we drive 150 kilometres round trip to our relatives' house.

"These are just a couple of the high points of living in Walkerton. Everything is far from fine from my vantage point!!"

Acting Premier, could you explain why this government has failed the McDonald family in Walkerton?

Hon Chris Hodgson (Chair of the Management Board of Cabinet): Through you to the member opposite and to those who may be watching, everyone is aware that the situation in Walkerton has been truly tragic. This government has a great deal of empathy with the family the member mentions. We are living up to our commitment to do everything we can to make sure that the situation improves in Walkerton.

To date, the 4.6 kilometres of water mains have been replaced. We've issued orders to stop using well 5 and ordered hydrogeological study in areas surrounding the other wells. The Ontario Clean Water Agency is at Walkerton and has been there for a number of months, trying to make sure that when the water is hooked up it is absolutely safe, and I think the member opposite and everyone would agree that should be the priority. They're doing that as quickly as they possibly can, but you want to make sure that when it does start to work again for the family you mentioned it's absolutely safe.

Mrs Pupatello: Acting Premier, five months ago the water in Walkerton began to make people sick. Five months ago Dalton McGuinty dragged this government into a public inquiry which begins today.

My question for the Acting Premier is, what do you think is reasonable? Is it reasonable that the people should have no assistance by this government so that people like the McDonalds are still suffering the fate today that they suffered five months ago and that they still are without safe drinking water?

The people of Walkerton deserve something more than just the truth that will come out in a public inquiry; they do deserve to have safe water and they deserve that now. After five months, the water coming out of their taps is still poisoned. Your government failed to provide that water assistance. What exactly is an acceptable level of wait for the McDonalds and all the other people who today, after five months, still do not have safe drinking water in Walkerton?

Hon Mr Hodgson: As I've mentioned, everyone is concerned about this situation. It's truly tragic what happened in Walkerton to the people who died and the families that have had to live through this ordeal. We are taking steps, and you know that. The Ontario Clean Water Agency has been working with town officials. If you talk to people at the municipal level, the town's mayor has been widely quoted as stating that the Ministry of the Environment has been very helpful and is doing everything in its power to make sure that water is restored in a quick fashion, but also it has to be ensured that it's safe.

The experts are working on that to make sure that when it does get restored it's absolutely safe for the McDonald family and all the residents of Walkerton, and I think that's what reasonable people would expect.

Mrs Pupatello: This is what the Premier of Ontario said last May: "We can't wait five months for a public inquiry." He made it sound as though five months was an absolute lifetime, and for the people who've been coping with cleaning, with babies, with trying to give baths, five months has been an absolute lifetime.

Do the people of Ontario know that you, the government of Ontario, have not helped the people find water to drink, to transport water? You've done nothing to assist the people to go day to day until you decide that you're going to have safe drinking water in Walkerton.

I'm asking the Acting Premier today, do you think it's acceptable that after five months in the 21st century the government of Ontario cannot provide safe drinking water for the people of Walkerton?

Hon Mr Hodgson: The member opposite is a reasonable person; she knows that there's no such thing as a magic wand to just say that everything will be hooked up tomorrow. This is a complicated situation. The Ontario Clean Water Agency has worked with the town and the municipal officials and experts in the industry. I think she would agree that it should be done properly and that it's turned into an issue where it's taking a lot of resources to replace all of the piping. But do you think we shouldn't do that? I think we should.

We should act responsibly and make sure that we do the best thing for the people of Walkerton and that when the water's hooked up it has to be absolutely safe for the residents of Walkerton. I think you would agree with that and that experts should be working on that and doing it in that manner.

ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION

Ms Frances Lankin (Beaches-East York): My question is to the Acting Premier. Last week you introduced Bill 124, calling it the toughest environmental penalties legislation in North America. What I want to know is why this bill also repeals some of the toughest provisions in the existing law. The law on the books now allows administrative penalties against a director or an officer of a corporation who has failed to take all reasonable care to prevent the corporation from polluting the environment. Your new law repeals that provision.

Funny how, among all the smoke and mirrors and hoopla, your minister neglected to tell us about that little change. It was nowhere in his statement. It was nowhere in the bill's explanatory notes. It was nowhere in the ministry backgrounder document. Acting Premier, would you tell us, why are you scrapping that section, weakening our environmental laws while pretending to make them tougher?

Hon Chris Hodgson (Chair of the Management Board of Cabinet): As the member opposite is aware, we are keeping our promise to get tough on polluters. I will pass on to the Minister of the Environment your specific concerns, but I think you would agree that this is a step in the right direction, that we want to have the toughest laws and make sure they are enforced, to make our air and water cleaner and our environment better for the next generation. I think you would even agree with that.

Ms Lankin: Acting Premier, it's your government, your cabinet that made the decision to repeal this

section of the act, and I want to know why. It's pretty clear that Bill 124 is little more than a public relations exercise to respond to the beginning of the Walkerton inquiry. You are trying to make a big deal about raising penalties when in fact you're not enforcing the law and you're not prosecuting under the law.

Your bill amends the environmental penalties that were enacted in 1998, under the then minister Norm Sterling. You told the House at second reading-this is really great, Minister-when discussing this very

section of the act, that this would make our laws-you guessed it-the toughest in North America. It's a great spin line. The government spin doctors obviously like it, so they're trying again. But it's hard to make it fit when they're actually weakening the law and the legislation that's there.

What was enacted in 1998 says that administrative penalties can be imposed on corporate officers and directors who don't do everything reasonably possible to make sure that environmental offences are not committed. Why is your government repealing that

section now?

Hon Mr Hodgson: I can assure the member opposite that our draft legislation will go through consultations. I know that you would agree with making sure that we have the toughest laws to make sure that our environment is the cleanest and the best it can possibly be. You've read the introduction of the draft. I think you would agree that these fines will make us better as a province and that good industry will welcome this. It levels the playing field and it means that Ontario is a leader in environmental protection.

Ms Lankin: Minister, in 1995 environmental fines in the province of Ontario were at $2 million. Under your government it has dropped to $850,000. You're not enforcing the law; you're not prosecuting under the law. Raising the limits is not going to make it the toughest.

This bill falls way short of what your ministry officials told you needed to happen in the cabinet submission that led to Bill 124. They said you needed 500 new staff to enforce the existing law; you decided to go for 65 temporary staff. The submission proposes an environmental snitch line so members of the public could help you enforce the law; your bill doesn't do that. It proposes amending the legislation to make environmental regulations an "absolute liability," to eliminate lame excuses for polluters; your bill doesn't do that either. Instead, you're repealing a

section that your former Minister of the Environment said made his act the toughest in North America, the same language that you're using today.

You were part of the cabinet then; you're part of the cabinet now. You are here as Acting Premier. Tell us: why is your government repealing this

section of the law, weakening Ontario's environmental protection?

Hon Mr Hodgson: You've got some concerns with the bill, but I think you would agree overall that this is a step in the right direction. There are some huge, significant steps forward. For individuals, a first-time offence: right now, the present situation in Ontario is zero to $100,000 plus a possible two-years-less-a-day jail term. Under this proposal it would be a maximum of $4 million plus a five-years-less-a-day jail term. For an individual's subsequent offences it's a huge increase, up to a maximum of $6 million plus a five-years-less-a-day jail sentence.

For corporations, a first offence: right now it could be anywhere from zero up to $1 million. Under this proposal it will be a maximum of $6 million. For a corporation's subsequent offences it goes to a maximum of $10 million from the present limit of zero to $2 million.

I know that the Minister of the Environment will be interested in the opposition's comments, and we look forward to working with you to make sure we move forward to protect the environment in Ontario.

TRUCKING INDUSTRY

Ms Shelley Martel (Nickel Belt): I have a question for the Minister of Economic Development and Trade regarding his complete mismanagement of the fuel price crisis in the province of Ontario. Truckers have blocked the Whitby food terminal today because your government has done absolutely nothing to deal with the serious problems that are facing independent truckers. They have tried for six months now to get your government to understand that the fuel crisis is costing them their trucks and their livelihood, and all they've gotten is rhetoric from your government.

Minister, you promised that your government would regulate the trucking industry if the industry wasn't prepared to regulate itself. It's clear it isn't. It's clear you've caused a crisis. When are you going to bring in legislation to fix the mess?

Hon Al Palladini (Minister of Economic Development and Trade): The honourable member would like everyone here to think that the fuel crisis we're facing is an Ontario-made problem. There is a fuel crisis throughout the world; unfortunately, we're all affected by it.

I want to say that yes, I did say that if the industry is not able to regulate itself, this government would regulate, making sure that access to the fuel surcharge is made available to the owner-operators. We have been negotiating in good faith and the working committee is working. We have made advances. I just would like to allow the process to make sure that we look at not only the fuel surcharge issue but other issues that are affecting the trucking industry.

Naturally, I'm disappointed at some of the things that have been happening. That's not the way it's supposed to be. I encourage all truckers to give an opportunity to the people who are part of the working group to come up with all their solutions.

Ms Martel: Minister, the truckers don't need your encouragement. They need some leadership from you, and they're wondering when they're going to get it.

The question was, when are you going to bring in legislation to regulate the trucking industry? Independent truckers need to know they're going to get some compensation for high fuel prices. They need to know they're not going to carry the cost of increased fuel prices all by themselves.

Your working group has fallen apart. There are no effective discussions going on right now, and it's clear your government has no plan to deal with this crisis. I ask again, Minister, when are you going to show some leadership? When are you going to bring in legislation to regulate the trucking industry?

Hon Mr Palladini: It's very clear the honourable member would like to add more fuel to the fire-no pun intended. This government has acted very responsibly by facilitating the meetings the industry needs and by helping the truckers at least have access to the people they work for. The working group is working, contrary to what the honourable member is saying. The best thing for the trucking industry is to allow these meetings to continue, so we can get to the bottom of this thing and make sure Ontario's trucking industry is viable for a long time.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): New question.

Mr Monte Kwinter (York Centre): I have a question to the Minister of Economic Development and Trade. Two weeks ago today, I stood up and suggested to you that the talks between your ministry and the trucking associations had collapsed, and that we were in danger of having a slowdown: rigs parked by the side of the road, disruption to just-in-time deliveries, disruption to fuel deliveries and disruption to produce deliveries. You stood up and said you had a working group that was working and doing these things, and that you were going to come up with a resolution.

In your response to me-and you've already made it twice today-you said exactly the same thing. I just want to quote it to you, because I think it's a smokescreen for doing nothing. You said, "We can address not only the fuel surcharge but also some of the other issues within the trucking industry." You said that to me, and you've said it twice today. Later on in the same response, you said, "But we have to look at the overall industry." Then you said, again, "not just the fuel surcharge but other issues within the industry."

The problem is, when you called your meeting, this exalted working group, and you brought the National Truckers Association there, they came expecting to see something on the table. They came to see you addressing their number one issue, the fuel surcharge pass-through. You didn't even mention it. It wasn't mentioned at that meeting. They walked out, and the acrimony was reported in the media. They said you may be talking but you're not listening. What do you have to respond to that?

Hon Mr Palladini: I want to say to the honourable member that I'm not negotiating. I've been a facilitator all along. I've been facilitating access within the trucking industry, so that talks could actually take place so we can come up with solutions.

Fuel surcharges have been a problem for quite a while, and this government had the courage to lead by example. Last Friday, the Minister of Transportation made the announcement that owner-operators at least will have immediate access to the monies they have been putting out.

I want to say to the honourable member that we have every intention of making sure the carriers and shippers are going to make sure that access to fuel surcharges will be possible to the industry. If that does not happen, this government has already said we will regulate that portion of the industry to make sure it does happen.

Mr Kwinter: You're talking a good game, but the facts do not bear out what you're saying. Yesterday the trucking associations met, had a vote and were unanimous that they were getting nowhere with this government. According to Bill Wellman, the president of the National Truckers Association, "We're through talking." You keep talking about things that might happen, and they're talking about things that are going to happen. They are going to stop delivery of products to our key industries, and you are doing nothing about it. You've made all sorts of promises that you will bring in legislation and do various things. You're doing nothing.

I ask you now, are you prepared to bring in legislation? If you are, why are you telling some of the truckers that you're not bringing it in? You're not really being upfront with them, and you're creating problems. Those problems are going to affect our industry, they're going to affect our consumers and they're going to affect people who are the most vulnerable. I suggest that if you're going to deal with the problem, deal with it. Stop talking and start doing some action.

Hon Mr Palladini: We have made every serious effort to deal with the problem, contrary to what the honourable member is saying. Never at any time have I said to anyone within the trucking industry that I would not consider regulation of the fuel surcharge access. On the contrary, I must have said that a hundred times, and we still have every intention of doing it.

I'm glad the honourable member has asked the question, because one of the things the honourable member should know is that even if the province regulated the fuel surcharge access within Ontario, that will only affect a minor number of owner-operators in the province. I wonder if I can get the honourable member's support to help me lobby the federal Minister of Transportation, so Ontario operators will not be put at risk. I'm looking for your support.

FARM TAX REBATE PROGRAM

Mr Bert Johnson (Perth-Middlesex): My question is for the Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs. You recently made an announcement concerning provincial sales tax on farm building materials. I know the exemptions on these building materials has driven a lot of new construction on the farms in my riding of Perth-Middlesex, and farmers want information on your plans to make this plan more accessible. Minister, can you outline the changes that have been made to the program and tell the House why these changes were made?

Hon Ernie Hardeman (Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs): As the member will know, our government committed in this year's budget to make the sales tax exemption on farm building materials into a point-of-sale exemption, meaning that farmers could keep their hard-earned money rather than paying the provincial sales tax for these materials and applying for a rebate.

Exempting farm building materials has stimulated construction on farms across the province, leading to more modern facilities and more jobs. Under the rebate program, over 15,000 claims, representing over $425 million worth of renovation and new farm buildings, were processed. Now farmers can make this competitive contribution to our economy more easily. This is just one example of our commitment to the province's farmers.

Mr Johnson: Minister, people in my riding want to know more specifics on this change. They want to know how the program has changed, now that they don't have to apply for the rebate, and they want to know how this change affects building projects that are done by contractors. Minister, can you give us some detail on how the program is meant to work when a farmer actually goes to the store to buy materials, and what happens if a contractor is doing the buying?

Hon Mr Hardeman: When a farmer goes to buy materials for a farm building, he or she must sign what is known as a purchase exemption certificate stating that the goods are for farm use only, as well as stating the name and address of the farmer. This process is already in place for many products bought for farms such as fertilizer, pesticides and hand tools.

I want to make it clear that a contractor can also sign the exemption certificate when the building materials are bought, provided the details of the project and the name and address of the farmer are given. This will make the program work better, as contractors do a large part of the work in our farm construction. We have worked with the Ministry of Finance to get the word out on this regulation to our stakeholders and to stores that are selling building materials. Anyone who wants more information can call the local retail sales office and the Ministry of Finance for information. Their number is in the blue pages. Thank you again to the member for the question.

CONSTRUCTION INDUSTRY LABOUR RELATIONS

Mr Dominic Agostino (Hamilton East): My question is to the Minister of Labour. Late Friday afternoon you announced that you were going to kill Bill 69. Clearly, on this side of the House we believed all along that Bill 69 was an unnecessary, aggressive, bad piece of legislation that was simply intended to split the labour unions, that was simply another attack by your government on the construction trades in Ontario. You had somewhat of an agreement, you had unions agree to it, and the reason you did that, Minister, was because you put a gun to their heads and you said, "You either go along with this or we're going to blow your brains out through an even worse piece of legislation."

Let me quote what you said in the Toronto Star on June 29: "They're playing with fire. If they don't support the bill, they will leave me with no alternative. I'll have to bring in a bill that abolishes

section 1.4 of the Ontario Labour Relations Act." Minister, that is a declaration of war on the construction trades of Ontario. Will you stand up today and make it clear to the House that you have no intention whatsoever of bringing in any legislation to abolish 1.4 of the Ontario Labour Relations Act as it affects the construction trades?

Hon Chris Stockwell (Minister of Labour): I'd like to thank the member opposite for the question. I can't give him that kind of undertaking because right now the Ministry of Labour and cabinet and caucus itself are reviewing the options that are made available. I personally think it's a shame that there wasn't compromise and agreement found by all the parties who in fact endorsed the piece of legislation, Bill 69. I thought it was a good piece of legislation. I though the legislation dealt with the issues that the employers and subcontractors, general contractors and unions had with respect to competitiveness in the construction industry in Ontario.

Having said that, it didn't work out. Obviously we believe that there is a competitiveness problem in the construction sector and that it still needs to be addressed. There are still a few avenues and options made available to us. We'll have to examine those options and determine what would be best for the people of Ontario.

I understand your opposition to that. I think you and the other opposition party have outlined your concerns. I appreciate your concerns. If you have any bits of advice or inquiries, I'll be happy to respond.

Mr Agostino: From a minister who's usually pretty clear and forthcoming in the House with his answers, frankly, that was disappointing. Very clearly, here's a bit of advice: there is no need at this point to bring in any tougher legislation that would cause disruption to the construction trade simply to please your friends in the general contractors who have donated a ton of money to your party and who have lobbied you to make these changes. There is no need to make any changes at this point to the legislation. That is our position, Minister.

Bill 69 was not necessary and the removal of

section 1.4 is not necessary either. It is disappointing because, clearly, by your answer today you have not ruled out the possible removal of that

section of the legislation. That is a declaration of war on the labour movement. If you move to remove that

section of the legislation, I can guarantee you one thing: you will bring every single construction site in the province of Ontario to a standstill. It will bring the economy of this province to its knees, and you will be responsible for that.

You have a choice today, Minister. Once again, you can make it very clear to the province of Ontario that you have no plans of removing 1.4 from the Ontario Labour Relations Act. Will you do it today or are you going to declare war on the labour movement by not doing that?

Hon Mr Stockwell: Well, Mr Speaker, in the beginning of that question he suggested I didn't answer the question, and at the end of the question he suggested that I did answer the question, so I'll try my best to respond. What is it? I hardly should be asked not only to answer the question but also to figure out what the question was, but I'll do my best.

Interjection.

Hon Mr Stockwell: I hear the member for Windsor cackling away there. Listen, you might even agree with this when you hear the answer.

We haven't decided which way we're going to go. We tried to get Bill 69 as a compromise. We tried our best to find out whether there was a compromise in this industry and we worked toward it for over a year. There wasn't a compromise. The parties couldn't come together. The union side, in my opinion, gave us an undertaking-I see some of the members who actually sat in the room and gave me that undertaking, who went out and then said, "No, we can't give you this undertaking. We can't do what we said we would do."

So all I can tell you is that we're examining our options. Our options are open to us. When we make a decision, we'll bring legislation to the House and we'll debate it fully. There's not any point in my telling you what we're going to do until we've had a frank and open discussion within caucus and gotten input from caucus, something I'm sure you don't know much about.

DRINKING AND DRIVING

Mr John O'Toole (Durham): My question is for the Solicitor General. Minister, at the local meetings I've had over the summer and fall, my constituents have repeatedly expressed concerns with the issue of road safety, more specifically driving while under the influence. I know that road safety is one of our government's top priorities and that in 1995 we launched a comprehensive road safety plan which gave police the tools they needed to make our roads safer. We've also implemented strong legislation like the Sergeant Rick McDonald Memorial Act and created initiatives like community safety zones. But of particular concern to my Durham constituents is the issue of drinking and driving.

Could you please tell the House and my constituents today about other initiatives the province and your ministry have taken to combat drinking and driving in Ontario?

Hon David H. Tsubouchi (Solicitor General): First I'd like to thank the member for Durham for his question. Drinking and driving will not be tolerated in this province. I think it's very clear that everyone in this House believes the same thing.

We're pleased to tell the House and the people of Ontario that in 1995 our government carried through on a commitment we made and fulfilled a $1.2-million annual funding promise to the people of Ontario. This doubled the commitment of this province in the fight against drinking and driving. While I have the opportunity, I want to recognize as well the efforts of the police services across this province, both municipal and provincial, in terms of their commitment to the fight against drinking and driving.

The other thing that I think is very significant is that this government has increased the suspensions with respect to drinking and driving to be the toughest in the country. Now a repeat drinking and driving offender can face a lifetime suspension of their driving licence. "Three strikes and you're out" I think is a very important message and a tough message to send to the people in Ontario. Don't drink and drive or else you'll face the fullness of penalty in this province.

Mr O'Toole: Thank you for that very genuine response, Minister. I like your strategy, that drinking and driving should not be tolerated. I think it's a zero tolerance issue, personally.

As I must repeat, this issue is, not just for my riding but for all the people of Ontario, a very important one. In particular, there were several fatal accidents you might be aware of in my riding of Durham over the summer. Most of them involved the use of alcohol.

While most people are getting the message about the dangers of drinking and driving, sadly, the message simply is not getting out to some. Could you tell my constituents and the people of this province what other initiatives and investments our government has developed to combat drinking and driving and put a stop to this abusive situation on our roads?

Hon Mr Tsubouchi: Once again I thank the member for Durham for the question. It gives me an opportunity to talk about the local investments this government has made in its fight against drinking and driving, particularly in the region of Durham.

Since 1995, our government has provided almost $130,000 to RIDE, the Reduce Impaired Driving Everywhere program.

There's an interesting program that we helped to fund in Durham through our Partners Against Crime community crime prevention program. We provided a $30,000 grant this last fiscal year to the Durham District School Board for a program called Impact 2000. This a road safety program which is addressed toward teen drivers and specifically addresses drinking and driving.

I've had a lot of opportunities, in my previous portfolio and also this one, to act with a number of groups. One of the really significant groups in this province is Ontario Students Against Impaired Driving, OSAID. They have taken the lead.

If we can somehow work with the young people of this province to get across the very important message of not drinking and driving, I think that is the key for the future of safety on our roads in Ontario.

MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES

Mr David Christopherson (Hamilton West): I have a question for the Acting Premier involving a very serious matter. I would like you to tell the people of Hamilton, to tell me and to tell the family of Zachary Antidormi why you have rejected a coroner's inquest recommendation to expand a program that will save lives.

You will know that as a result of the 1999 inquest, there was a recommendation to expand the services of the crisis outreach and support team, known as COAST. In May, your government received a proposal to expand that program. The Hamilton-Wentworth police services board have already approved their share of the funding, and you have rejected your share of it.

Your government talks a lot about children. You talk a lot about justice; you talk a lot about public safety; you talk about fairness. You talk a lot. This was an opportunity for your government to put your money where your mouth is and expand a program that will save lives.

Minister, tell all of us today why your government thinks they can afford to ignore the recommendations of that coroner's inquest and ignore the needs of families like Zachary Antidormi's.

Hon Chris Hodgson (Chair of the Management Board of Cabinet): As the member opposite knows, this is quite a complicated issue. We are looking at the implications of this. I know the Minister of Health is aware of the situation and will report back on it. I appreciate the question. I will inform her that you've asked.

Mr Christopherson: Minister, that is certainly far, far from acceptable. The fact of the matter is that lives can be saved. The police believe it; our community believes it; the Antidormi family believes it; the coroner's inquest believes it. It's only your government that doesn't think this matters.

Here's what the Antidormis had to say: "The jury worked very hard at the inquest, investigating the needs of the community. This was considered a need.... Some other family is going to have to suffer what we suffered."

Minister, it doesn't have to be that way. You have an opportunity to do the right thing today. As the second most influential financial minister in the government, you would be very much aware of this proposal. If you can't give me an adequate explanation of why you rejected this expansion, then I want you to stand in your place now and say that it's a mistake and that your government will approve the funding expansion so we can save lives in Hamilton and every other community across Ontario.

Hon Mr Hodgson: After researching this issue, the member of the third party would be aware that the program has not been cancelled, that the Ministry of Health is committed to the recommendations and making sure they are workable. The Ministry of Health and the minister will work with the program to make sure the concerns that he mentions are addressed. As I've already mentioned to him, I will mention to the Minister of Health that he has raised this issue. But I want to stress, for the people who might be watching this on television, that the member already knows the program has not been cancelled.

POVERTY AMONG SENIORS

Mr Michael A. Brown (Algoma-Manitoulin): I have a question for the minister responsible for seniors in this province. Homeowners who heat with natural gas or home heating oil will see a huge increase in the cost of heating their homes this winter. Close to 800,000 seniors in this province do not pay provincial income tax. These people don't pay income tax because these people don't make a lot of money. They are on fixed incomes. These people are going to have to pay, by most estimates, over $500 more this winter than last to heat their homes. They don't have an extra $500.

Minister, what are you and your government going to do to assist those seniors in the province who need to heat their homes this winter?

Hon Helen Johns (Minister of Citizenship, Culture and Recreation, minister responsible for seniors and women): Let me say that everyone is cognizant of fuel prices and the increasing prices. We all are watching carefully to see what happens in the federal mini-budget this week. There's lots of talk about what may be there and they are certainly talking about what they might do.

But let's talk about what we're doing in the province of Ontario. Let me say that this week, or in the next few weeks, everyone in the province who has paid tax of up to $200 will be receiving a $200 rebate, thanks to this government. That's an important side, if you will, a dividend from the province of Ontario.

Let me also say that this province has worked to reduce the taxes that seniors and all people across the province pay. We've reduced the tax substantially. We haven't seen any reduction from the federal government yet. All of those things enable seniors to have more disposable income, to be able to pay costs that sometimes are unavoidable, unfortunately, as a result of the well gate prices.

Mr Brown: Minister, you didn't listen. There are 783,490 seniors in this province who will not receive a tax rebate cheque from the province because they did not pay it. These are the people we're concerned with today. We want to know how seniors in this province, those 783,000 who did not pay provincial income tax and are going to have to pay $500 more to heat their homes-are you going to do something about it or are you going to leave them in the cold?

Hon Mrs Johns: Let me be very clear. There's no way this government should be apologizing because we took hundreds of thousands of people off the taxes so they don't have to pay tax any more. There's no way we should be apologizing for that.

The people of Ontario see tax reductions which have been substantial as a result of this government, and never will we apologize for that. In fact, we're proud of our record. Fewer people are paying tax in the lower brackets, and that's good for seniors, that's good for people with low incomes, and we're proud of that record.

ACADEMIC TESTING

Mr R. Gary Stewart (Peterborough): My question is to the Minister of Education. I hear a great many concerns from people in my riding that today's students need to be extremely well-educated to compete in the global marketplace. Our Ontario students will be competing with students across the country, and indeed around the world, for many jobs that don't even exist yet. My constituents tell me that a good basis of literacy is vital for our students.

I'm aware that this past week all grade 10 students across Ontario took a literacy test. Can you explain why this government has chosen to implement such a test, and can you also tell us how the tests went overall last week.

Hon Janet Ecker (Minister of Education): As we said before both the 1995 and 1999 elections, one of our goals was to have better quality and more accountability in the education system to make sure that we were giving our students what they need when they leave high school. One of the ways we test whether the new curriculum is doing its job is to have standardized testing. For example, one of the tests that is just being phased in this year is the grade 10 literacy test. It was something we said we would do. We are indeed doing it.

It was phased in this year to make sure that it is indeed a valid test, that it is giving information not only to measure how well we're doing as a system but also how well students are doing individually, because of course it will be, starting next year, a requirement for students to graduate from high school. We also have accommodations for special education students to make sure they can do it.

I'd also like to thank the many individuals, the teachers and the staff at EQAO, for the work they have done-

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Order. I'm sorry, the minister's time is up.

Mr Stewart: Thank you, Minister, for your answer. After meeting with about 150 students last week, their concerns are certainly your concerns and vice versa.

I know that parents and employers in my riding are glad to see that this government is recognizing that we need to know how well our education system is serving our students. Is it true that testing is one of the most accurate ways we can determine how students are doing? Once the results of the tests are known, are there remedial supports available for students who need extra help?

Hon Mrs Ecker: Students, of course, get evaluated a number of ways by their teachers, as they should be. But if we're going to be able to ensure that the system is doing its job, we need to have standardized tests across the system, so we do in grade 3, grade 6, phasing in in grade 9, and of course the grade 10 literacy test.

The other reason is that it clearly will be measuring whether our students have appropriate literacy skills before they leave high school. If they don't have those skills, remediation has to be done, and we've already started funding that. There is $25 million in additional monies being invested this year to help with remediation activities, things like summer school, study groups, steps that will assist students in being able to pass the literacy test.

We are also interested in preventing literacy problems. That's why we've increased funding this year for literacy programs in kindergarten to grade 3, so that in those early grades not only are young children getting what they need in literacy skills but also, if they are having problems, they're getting identified at that early age.

NATIVE CHILDREN'S SERVICES

Mrs Leona Dombrowsky (Hastings-Frontenac-Lennox and Addington): My question is for the Minister of Community and Social Services. In 1989, eleven years ago, commitments were made to the aboriginal people of Toronto that, in time, Native Child and Family Services would receive full CAS funding. Dalton McGuinty made this commitment in the First Steps document. Aboriginal children of Ontario deserve services that will respect their unique culture and identity.

In 1997, your assistant deputy minister told Native Child and Family Services of Toronto that you would make a decision. In 1998, they expected an answer. In 1999, you still did not respond. Your ministry's own review reported that your lack of action has placed this agency, and I'm quoting from the report, in an "uncomfortable and unsustainable position." Minister, when will you make Native Child and Family Services of Toronto a full-fledged children's aid society?

Hon John R. Baird (Minister of Community and Social Services, minister responsible for francophone affairs): We encourage the agencies in question, with their programs, to reflect the traditional aboriginal values. However, our priority is to ensure the safety and security of every child in this province.

I'm aware of the concerns the member opposite has expressed. I'm aware of the concerns expressed by aboriginal leaders in the province about the implementation and the pace of child welfare reform.

We've undertaken, at considerable effort, to reform our child welfare system, with more than 100% increase in funding and some tough new legislation. We have designated a number of aboriginal child welfare agencies in the province, and we're waiting to see the full results of that. So if the member opposite wants a clear answer, it is no, not at this time.

Mrs Dombrowsky: Minister, this 80-page report by the Ontario Federation of Indian Friendship Centres catalogues the plight of urban aboriginal children.

Last year, Bill 6 amended the Family and Children's Services Act "to recognize that Indian and native people should be entitled to ... their own child and family services." Yet you wrote to Native Child and Family Services of Toronto in June, indicating you would not designate them as a CAS. On September 25 of this year, this agency wrote to all of its stakeholders to inform them of your-and I quote from their document-"promises made and promises broken."

You've ignored your own legislation, Bill 6, at the expense of children. When are you going to designate Native Child and Family Services of Toronto as a full-fledged children's aid society?

Hon Mr Baird: In the member's first question, she says we won't give them a straight answer, and in the second, supplementary question she reads a letter from me, saying the answer is clearly given.

At this time, we have no plans to expand the number of native children's aid societies across the province. As I indicated to the member opposite, we're undertaking a comprehensive reform of our children's aid societies, which has been led by my predecessor, the Honourable Janet Ecker. We've more than doubled funding. We have designated a number of agencies. We'll watch closely how they move forward before we make a decision to proceed.

STUDENT ASSISTANCE

Mr Wayne Wettlaufer (Kitchener Centre): I have a question for the Minister of Training, Colleges and Universities. It concerns the Aiming for the Top scholarships, the creation of which program you announced earlier this year. Very recently the first winners have been announced and I'd like to know, for the benefit of many of the students in my riding, what you can tell us about the program, about this year's winners, and certainly for the many students who are going to be graduating this year, how they can apply for the program.

Hon Dianne Cunningham (Minister of Training, Colleges and Universities): The Aiming for the Top scholarships are something that everyone in this House should be very proud of. It's an opportunity for us to recognize our top students in our secondary schools, those students who are not only good at what they do but those students who really need to be in those universities and colleges. Qualified students are eligible to receive up to $3,500. If they keep their marks up, they can do that for as many as four years, so we know we're looking at some $14,000 in support. They just do this by applying next year by filling out the OSAP form and filling in the tick marks.

I will say that more than 4,000 young people received this award in some format this year, and close to 1,400 received the maximum award. I want all members of this Legislative Assembly, however they can, to somehow acknowledge the young people in their own secondary schools.

Mr Wettlaufer: I think this indicates that we are recognizing some academic excellence. But, Madam Minister, I think students need to be reassured, because certain students in my riding have expressed some concern that if they accept this money they will place themselves at a disadvantage when applying for Ontario student loans or any other financial aid. I wonder what assurance you can give to them that, if they win an Aiming for the Top scholarship, they will not be put at any financial disadvantage.

Hon Mrs Cunningham: To ensure that the scholarship winners receive the full benefit of their awards, the Ontario government has in fact put in an exemption for any merit-based scholarship. That's very important. It's a new requirement for OSAP in the sense that this will not be counted against them for the special awards that we give our students with regard to student loan programs.

Interjection.

Hon Mrs Cunningham: I will say that this in fact is a scholarship. The opposition are asking a question, which they could do during regular question period, but I'll answer it anyway. The Millennium is not a scholarship. The federal government unilaterally made up a program that we already had in Ontario. Since the member asks, that is the wrong way to do business. The federal government should work with the provinces.

I will say that that is not a scholarship. That, in fact, is not a scholarship. It was not clawed back-

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): I'm afraid the minister's time is up. New question.

Interjections.

The Speaker: Stop the clock, if we could, please. Order. On to the next question.

COLLECTIVE BARGAINING

Mr David Christopherson (Hamilton West): My question is to the Minister of Labour. Minister, you will know that there's a piece of legislation coming before the House this afternoon, Bill 128, the Social Housing Reform Act, that contains yet another attack on working people and their right to belong to a union. In fact, this bill goes so far as to strip the democratic right to belong to a union and the democratic right to have a collective agreement from workers who are actively working in the public housing field.

You are the Minister of Labour. We are asking whether or not you are in the cabinet now arguing on behalf of those workers and for their rights by telling your cabinet colleagues that they must delete

section 51 of Bill 128. Minister, will you stand in your place now and tell us that that is what you are doing on behalf of these workers?

Hon Chris Stockwell (Minister of Labour): I appreciate the question from the member from Hamilton. This is the period of transition that takes place between transferring the lock, stock and barrel from this level of government to another level of government.

From the meetings that I was involved in in drafting the legislation it was very clear, and we made it very clear as a government, that we were not in the habit of stripping collective agreements or stripping members and unions of their rights. During the period of transfer there needs to be a transition period, a natural time when you can move certain employees from one level of government to another. Those employees who are being moved need protection as well as the employees who are in place presently today.

When they come together, there is some excess in certain circumstances. We need to protect both levels of employees and understand that their rights and provisions are protected under the act so when they come together, both sides are represented by their local unions, both sides have proper representation, and when they amalgamate at that time, everyone has a fair and active right to pursue the kinds of employment they want to pursue, and those who don't get taken up receive the proper payouts and so on that they receive from whichever level of government they have.

The fact remains-

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): I'm afraid the minister's time is up.

Mr Christopherson: Minister, that's not what's happening here. The fact of the matter is that under this bill you've taken away their grievance rights. The grievance procedure has been denied them. So how can you stand in your place and talk about being fair and you try to come across as this new kind of Tory Minister of Labour, but at the end of the day the legislation and the anti-democratic attack on union workers are exactly the same? It doesn't matter whose face they put into that ministry; the attack is the same.

What you're doing is downloading about $1 billion worth of costs on to municipalities by giving them responsibility for all social housing, and you're trying to offset those costs by undercutting the rights, the wages, the benefits that union members enjoy in a collective agreement. Contrary to what you say, Minister, just the fact you're taking away grievance rights proves that this is all about taking away rights from workers yet again and denying them their democratic rights.

Minister, I need you to stand in your place and tell me that you're going to go back into that cabinet and fight for workers rather than fighting workers.

Hon Mr Stockwell: I've got to say to the member for Hamilton West, I go to the cabinet table and represent the people of the province of Ontario.

When it comes to fighting for workers, let me say this: I have never been part of an administration as Minister of Labour that went and raped and ripped off collective agreements like the social contract. I was not part of that kind of application of what you consider fair labour laws. I've not been part of an administration that went in and ripped up collective agreements, rolled back wages, forced people to take Rae days. I've not done that. What I've done is protected-

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Sorry to interrupt the minister. We can't continue with the shouting.

We still have a little bit of time, 10 seconds, for the minister.

Hon Mr Stockwell: What we've done is we've amalgamated the housing authorities between provincial and municipal levels. Yes, there will be some jobs cost, but what we're doing is protecting both levels-the local level, the provincial level-protecting each worker's right to get the job they deserve based on their seniority. Remember seniority? It's part of a collective agreement that you pillaged under the social contract.

NOTICE OF DISSATISFACTION

Mrs Leona Dombrowsky (Hastings-Frontenac-Lennox and Addington): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: I am dissatisfied with the response from the Minister of Community and Social Services and I request a late show.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): I thank the member, and she can file the appropriate papers with the table.

PETITIONS

NORTHERN HEALTH TRAVEL GRANT

Mr Rick Bartolucci (Sudbury): I have a petition to the Ontario Legislature. It's with regard to northerners demanding that the Harris government eliminate health care apartheid.

"Whereas the northern health travel grant offers a reimbursement of partial travel costs at a rate of 30.4 cents per kilometre one way for northerners forced to travel for cancer care while travel policy for southerners who travel for cancer care features full reimbursement costs for travel, meals and accommodation;

"Whereas a cancer tumour knows no health travel policy or geographic location;

"Whereas a recently released Oracle research poll confirms that 92% of Ontarians support equal health travel funding;

"Whereas northern Ontario residents pay the same amount of taxes and are entitled to the same access to health care and all government services and inherent civil rights as residents living elsewhere in the province;

"Whereas we support the efforts of the newly formed OSECC (Ontarians Seeking Equal Cancer Care), founded by Gerry Lougheed Jr, former chair of Cancer Care Ontario, Northeast Region, to correct this injustice against northerners travelling for cancer treatment;

"Therefore,

be it resolved that we, the undersigned, petition the Ontario Legislature to demand the Mike Harris government move immediately to fund full travel expenses for northern Ontario cancer patients and eliminate the health care apartheid which exists presently in the province of Ontario."

I affix my signature to this petition, as I'm in full agreement.

Ms Shelley Martel (Nickel Belt): I have a petition regarding this government's ongoing discrimination against northern cancer patients. It reads as follows:

"Whereas the northern health travel grant offers a reimbursement of partial travel costs at a rate of 30.4 cents per kilometre one way for northerners forced to travel for cancer care while travel policy for southerners who travel for cancer care features full reimbursement costs for travel, meals and accommodation;

"Whereas a cancer tumour knows no health travel policy or geographic location;

"Whereas northern Ontario residents pay the same amount of taxes and are entitled to the same access to health care and all government services and inherent civil rights as residents living elsewhere in the province;

"Whereas we support the efforts of the newly formed OSECC (Ontarians Seeking Equal Cancer Care), founded by Gerry Lougheed Jr, former chair of Cancer Care Ontario, Northeast Region, to correct this injustice against northerners travelling for cancer treatment;

"Therefore,

be it resolved that we, the undersigned, petition the Ontario Legislature to demand the Mike Harris government move immediately to fund full travel expenses for northern Ontario cancer patients and eliminate the health care apartheid which exists presently in the province of Ontario."

This is signed by many residents from my riding. I agree with them and I'd like to thank Gerry Lougheed Jr for all of his efforts.

HIGHWAY SAFETY

Mr John O'Toole (Durham): This petition is with respect to Bill 102,

An Act to amend the Highway Traffic Act to prohibit the use of phones and other equipment while driving on a highway. Actually, this is my bill; it's a good bill.

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas motor vehicle accidents are the leading cause of death in North America; and

"Whereas studies conducted in the city of Toronto, the United States and Great Britain have reported that drivers using cellular phones while operating a vehicle significantly increase the risk of collision; and

"Whereas people talking on cellular phones while driving may cause a 34% higher risk of having an accident;

"We, the undersigned, respectfully petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to ban the use of"-Mr Speaker, this is very important-"hand-held cellphones,"-that's what the nature of the bill is-"portable computers and fax machines while operating a motor vehicle." Remember the hand-held part there; we don't ban cellphones with this bill.

"We further respectfully request that Bill 102,

An Act to amend the Highway Traffic Act to prohibit the use of phones and other equipment while driving on a highway, be passed unanimously by all members of the provincial Parliament of Ontario."

I'm pleased to endorse this.

MCMICHAEL CANADIAN ART COLLECTION

Mr John Gerretsen (Kingston and the Islands): I have a petition here from the Agnes Etherington Art Centre at Queen's University, one of the leading art centres in Ontario. It reads as follows:

"Whereas the government of Ontario has introduced Bill 112,

An Act to amend the McMichael Canadian Art Collection Act; and

"Whereas the McMichael Canadian Art Collection has grown and evolved into one of Canada's best-loved and most important art gallery collections of Canadian art; and

"Whereas the passage of Bill 112 would constitute a breach made with the hundreds of other donors to the McMichael Canadian Art Collection and vest too much power in the hands of the founders, who have been more than compensated for their generosity, diminish the authority and responsibility of the board of trustees, limit the focus of the art collection and hamper the gallery's ability to raise private funds, thereby increasing its dependency on taxpayers, and significantly reduce its capacity and strength as an educational resource;

"Therefore we, the undersigned citizens of Ontario, petition the Ontario Legislature to withdraw Bill 112."

It's signed by approximately 60 individuals, and I've affixed my signature to it as well, as I am in complete agreement with the petition.

OCCUPATIONAL HEALTH AND SAFETY

Mr David Christopherson (Hamilton West): I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario that reads as follows:

"Whereas the community of Sarnia is witnessing many women developing mesothelioma and asbestosis as a result of the asbestos brought home on their husbands' work clothing; and

"Whereas similar cases are occurring in other areas of the province;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, ask the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to amend the Workplace Safety and Insurance Act to allow compensation for family members who develop occupational illness as a result of workplace toxins inadvertently brought home."

I add my name to those of these petitioners.

NORTHERN HEALTH TRAVEL GRANT

Mrs Lyn McLeod (Thunder Bay-Atikokan): I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario.

"Whereas the northern health travel grant was introduced in 1987 in recognition of the fact that northern Ontario residents are often forced to receive treatment outside their own communities because of the lack of available services; and

"Whereas the Ontario government acknowledges that the costs associated with that travel should not be fully borne by those residents and, therefore, that financial support should be provided by the Ontario government through the travel grant program; and

"Whereas travel, accommodation and other costs have escalated sharply since the program was first put in place, particularly in the area of air travel; and

"Whereas the Ontario government has provided funds so that southern Ontario patients needing care at the Northwestern Ontario Cancer Centre have all their expenses paid while receiving treatment in the north which creates a double standard for health care delivery in the province; and

"Whereas northern Ontario residents should not receive a different level of health care nor be discriminated against because of their geographical locations;

"Therefore we, the undersigned citizens of Ontario, petition the Ontario Legislature to acknowledge the unfairness and inadequacy of the northern health travel grant program and commit to a review of the program with a goal of providing 100% funding of the travel costs for residents needing care outside their communities until such time as that care is available in their communities."

This petition is presented with the signatures of another 90 concerned constituents in my riding, and I affix my signature in full agreement with their concerns.

CHILD POVERTY

Mr David Christopherson (Hamilton West): I have further petitions from the West Hamilton Interfaith Committee on Child Poverty.

"Whereas the federal government signed the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child and passed a resolution to eradicate child poverty by the year 2000; and

"Whereas at the first ministers' meeting in June 1996 the Prime Minister and Premiers made tackling child poverty a collective priority; and

"Whereas Campaign 2000 records the province of Ontario as having the highest increase-116%-in child poverty since Canada's House of Commons vowed unanimously in November 1989 to eliminate child poverty;

"Therefore, we, the undersigned, petition the Parliament of Ontario:

"(1) to take immediate steps to eradicate the hunger of poor children by working vigorously with the federal government to reduce the poverty rate among Ontario's children; and

"(2) to follow and implement the recommendations of the Early Years Study, commissioned by the Ontario government in the spring of 1998."

I proudly add my name to this petition.

HUNTING IN WILDERNESS PARKS

Mr Michael Gravelle (Thunder Bay-Superior North): A petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the Minister of Natural Resources has confirmed that the province is considering allowing hunting in Ontario's wilderness parks, including Quetico, Killarney, Wabakimi and Woodland Caribou;

"Whereas the provincial government made no mention of opening up wilderness parks to hunting when it came up with the Ontario Living Legacy policy last year for a vast area of publicly owned land across northern Ontario;

"Whereas the province's wilderness parks were originally established to be sanctuaries where the forces of nature would be permitted to function freely and where visitors could travel by non-mechanized means and experience solitude, challenge and personal enjoyment of that protected area; and

"Whereas opening wilderness parks to hunters undermines the principles that parks were established to fulfill, threatens animals and exposes the public to risk;

"Therefore we, the undersigned citizens of Ontario, petition the Ontario Legislature to demand that the Ministry of Natural Resources renew and reconfirm its ban on hunting in all of Ontario's wilderness parks."

These petitions keep coming in. I'm very proud to add my name to the signature and I support it fully.

FARMFARE

Mr David Christopherson (Hamilton West): Further petitions forwarded to me by Stan Raper of the United Farm Workers.

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the government of Ontario introduced farmfare on September 21, 1999, to supplement their workfare program, forcing social assistance recipients to work on farms for their benefits;

"Whereas the Harris government of Ontario has not provided for any consultation or hearings regarding this initiative;

"Whereas the Harris government has excluded agricultural workers from protections under the provincial labour code by passing Bill 7;

"Whereas this exclusion is currently being appealed under the Canadian Charter of Rights for infringing on the right of association and equal benefit of law;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to retract the farmfare program until hearings have been held and to reinstate the right of agricultural workers to allow them basic human rights protection under the labour code of Ontario."

I proudly add my name.

HEALTH CARE FUNDING

Mr Ernie Parsons (Prince Edward-Hastings): I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario.

"Whereas Canada's health care system is one of our greatest achievements as a country;

"Whereas health care in Ontario has deteriorated, with medical services being reduced and hospital budgets cut to the bone, resulting in lengthy delays in treatment, with sometimes fatal results;

"Whereas major changes to health care legislation by the Harris government have been made with no prior public consultation;

"Whereas residents of Prince Edward-Hastings are demanding that their voices be heard and their concerns addressed to ensure that future health care legislation meets their needs;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to call on the Harris government to protect our valued health care system and to hold public hearings on Bills 23 and 173."

I am pleased to add my signature to this petition.

NORTHERN HEALTH TRAVEL GRANT

Ms Shelley Martel (Nickel Belt): I have a further petition regarding this government's ongoing discrimination against northern cancer patients. It reads as follows:

"Whereas the northern health travel grant offers a reimbursement of partial travel costs at a rate of 30.4 cents per kilometre one way for northerners forced to travel for cancer care while travel policy for southerners who travel for cancer care features full reimbursement costs for travel, meals and accommodation;

"Whereas a cancer tumour knows no health travel policy or geographic location;

"Whereas northern Ontario residents pay the same amount of taxes and are entitled to the same access to health care and all government services and inherent civil rights as residents residing elsewhere in the province;

"Whereas we support the efforts of the newly formed OSECC (Ontarians Seeking Equal Cancer Care), founded by Gerry Lougheed Jr, former chair of Cancer Care Ontario, Northeast Region, to correct this injustice against northerners travelling for cancer treatment;

"Therefore,

be it resolved that we, the undersigned, petition the Ontario Legislature to demand the Mike Harris government move immediately to fund full travel expenses for northern cancer patients and eliminate the health care apartheid which presently exists in the province of Ontario."

This has been signed by a number of residents from my riding. I agree with them, and I'd like to thank Gerry Lougheed Jr for gathering these signatures.

HIGHWAY SIGNS

Mr Michael Gravelle (Thunder Bay-Superior North): A petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the Mike Harris government has been spending hundreds of thousands of taxpayers' dollars on a provincial sign campaign accompanying highway construction sites which reads, "Your Ontario tax dollars at work," signed by the Premier;

"Whereas these signs serve no particular purpose except to promote the image of the Premier at taxpayers' expense;

"Whereas this kind of public relations exercise is a completely inappropriate waste of taxpayers' dollars and certainly is not a wise use of our tax dollars at work;

"Therefore, we, the undersigned citizens of Ontario, petition the Ontario Legislature to demand that the Ministry of Transportation immediately remove all of these partisan highway signs from provincial highway construction sites across the province of Ontario;

"Furthermore, we petition the Ontario Legislature to pass Bill 44,

An Act to amend the Public Transportation and Highway Improvement Act to prohibit partisan highway signs which, if passed, would prevent the Ministry of Transportation from issuing to the crown any permit to display a sign which contains the name or image of a member of the provincial cabinet or a member of the Legislative Assembly or a partisan message."

I'm very pleased to sign my name. These are also coming in in great numbers.

OCCUPATIONAL HEALTH AND SAFETY

Mr David Christopherson (Hamilton West): I continue to receive petitions from the Canadian Auto Workers regarding cancer in the workplace. The petition reads as follows:

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas this year 130,000 Canadians will contract cancer and there are at minimum 17 funerals every day for Canadian workers who died from cancer caused by workplace exposure to cancer-causing substances known as carcinogens; and

"Whereas the World Health Organization estimates that 80% of all cancers have environmental causes and the International Labour Organization estimates that one million workers globally have cancer because of exposure at work to carcinogens; and

"Whereas most cancers can be beaten if government had the political will to make industry replace toxic substances with non-toxic substances; and

"Whereas very few health organizations study the link between occupations and cancer, even though more study of this link is an important step to defeating this dreadful disease;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, petition the Legislative of Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That it become a legal requirement that occupational history be recorded on a standard form when a patient presents at a physician for diagnosis or treatment of cancer; and

"That the diagnosis and occupational history be forwarded to a central cancer registry for analysis as to the link between cancer and occupation."

Again, on behalf of my NDP colleagues, I add my name to these petitions.

ROYAL ASSENT / SANCTION ROYALE

The Deputy Speaker (Mr Bert Johnson): I beg to inform the House that in the name of Her Majesty the Queen, His Honour the Administrator has been pleased to assent to certain bills.

Clerk at the Table (Mr Todd Decker): The following are the titles of the bills to which His Honour did assent:

Bill 42,

An Act to enhance public safety and to improve competitiveness by ensuring compliance with modernized technical standards in various industries / Projet de loi 42, Loi visant à accroître la sécurité publique et à améliorer la compétitivité en assurant l'observation de normes techniques modernisées dans plusieurs industries;

Bill 88,

An Act to promote the use of information technology in commercial and other transactions by resolving legal uncertainties and removing statutory barriers that affect electronic communication / Projet de loi 88, Loi visant à promouvoir l'utilisation des technologies de l'information dans les opérations commerciales et autres en éliminant les incertitudes juridiques et les obstacles législatifs qui ont une incidence sur les communications électroniques;

Bill 110,

An Act respecting the regulation of the practice of Professional Forestry / Projet de loi 110, Loi concernant la réglementation de l'exercice de la profession de forestier;

Bill 129,

An Act to authorize payments to the estates of the victims of the OC Transpo Tragedy / Projet de loi 129, Loi autorisant des paiements à la succession des victimes de la tragédie survenue chez OC Transpo.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

SOCIAL HOUSING REFORM ACT, 2000 / LOI DE 2000 SUR LA RÉFORME DU LOGEMENT SOCIAL

Mr Coburn, on behalf of Mr Clement, moved second reading of the following bill:

Bill 128,

An Act respecting social housing / Projet de loi 128, Loi concernant le logement social.

Mr Brian Coburn (Ottawa-Orléans): Before I begin, I'll be sharing my time with the members for London-Fanshawe, Peterborough and Durham.

Bill 128, the Social Housing Reform Act, if passed, will keep the government's commitment to transfer social housing administration to municipalities.

When we came to power in 1995, the Mike Harris government said we would end the boondoggle in social housing. Since then we have worked hard to streamline programs, improve administration and bring in efficiencies.

After extensive consultation, we recently introduced legislation that fulfils our commitment to put this service in the hands of municipalities, where it belongs. We strongly believe that local governments are in the best position to respond to the housing needs of their respective communities.

The transfer of the social housing programs to municipalities was announced in January 1997 as part of a local services realignment. The province agreed to take 50% of the education costs off the residential property tax base as part of this realignment. These new financial arrangements began one year later. The province has continued to administer social housing programs while developing proposals to meet our commitment to streamline and improve the social housing system before handing it over to the municipalities.

If passed, the Social Housing Reform Act would give municipalities the say for pay that they have been asking for for many years. What's more, the Social Housing Reform Act would allow municipalities to integrate the administration of social housing with Ontario Works, child care and other social services they deliver. By integrating these services, municipalities would serve their clients more efficiently and more effectively.

Let me stress that the province has taken every precaution to make sure tenants are protected throughout this entire transfer, and beyond. May I repeat: tenants will not be disrupted. Protecting tenants is this government's number one priority in this piece of legislation. No tenant needs to feel threatened by program streamlining or devolution of social housing programs to the municipal level. Provincial standards will ensure that service levels, eligibility, access and benefits will continue much the same as today.

I specifically want to emphasize that rents geared to income will not be affected and will continue to be set at 30% of income. All households in need would continue to be eligible to apply for social housing, regardless of where they live in the province.

Let me tell you what the housing world would look like if this legislation is passed:

Social housing tenants would be secure in their tenure; tenants would not be adversely affected, and there would be minimal disruption in their lives.

There would be no decline in the number of households assisted or in the number of units for people with disabilities.

Municipalities would manage and operate their own social housing portfolios; they would have say for pay and be able to provide better service to those in need more efficiently.

In addition, the province would continue to play a key role i