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May 10, 2023 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS Vol. L No. 35

The House met at 10 a.m.

SPEAKER (Bennett): Order, please!

Admit strangers.

Government Business

SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

J. HOGAN: Thank you, Speaker.

I call from the Order Paper, Motion 6.

SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

J. HOGAN: Thank you, Speaker.

I move, seconded by the Deputy Government House Leader, that notwithstanding Standing Order 9(3) this House shall not adjourn at 5 p.m. on Wednesday, May 24, 2023, but shall continue to sit to conduct Government Business and, if not earlier adjourned, the Speaker shall adjourn the House at midnight.

SPEAKER: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

All those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

SPEAKER: All those against, 'nay.'

Motion carried.

The hon. the Government House Leader.

J. HOGAN: Speaker, I call from the Order Paper, Motion 7.

SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

J. HOGAN: Speaker, I move, seconded by the Deputy Government House Leader, that pursuant to Standing Order 11(1) that the House not adjourn at 5:30 p.m. on Tuesday, May 23, 2023.

SPEAKER: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

All those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

SPEAKER: All those against, 'nay.'

Motion carried.

The hon. the Government House Leader.

J. HOGAN: Speaker, I call from the Order Paper, Motion 8.

SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

J. HOGAN: Speaker, I move, seconded by the Deputy Government House Leader, pursuant to Standing Order 11(1) that the House not adjourn at 5:30 p.m. on Thursday, May 25, 2023.

SPEAKER: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

All those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

SPEAKER: All those against, 'nay.'

Motion carried.

The hon. the Government House Leader.

J. HOGAN: Speaker, I call from the Order Paper, Motion 3.

SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

J. HOGAN: Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Finance, that the House resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole on Ways and Means to consider a certain resolution and a bill relating to the raising of loans by the province, Bill 37.

SPEAKER: The motion is that I do now leave the Chair for the House to resolve itself into a Committee of Ways and Means.

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

All those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

SPEAKER: All those against, 'nay.'

Motion carried.

On motion, that the House resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole, the Speaker left the Chair.

Committee of the Whole

CHAIR (Warr): Order, please!

We are now debating the related resolution and Bill 37.

Resolution

Be it resolved by the House of Assembly in Legislative Session convened, as follows:

“That it is expedient to bring in a measure to authorize the raising from time to time by way of loan on the credit of the province a sum of money not exceeding $1,500,000,000.”

CHAIR: Shall the resolution carry?

I'm recognizing the hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

S. COADY: Thank you very much, Chair, and thank you to the Members of the House of Assembly for their involvement in debate of budget 2023-2024.

Chair, Budget 2023 was tabled in the House of Assembly on March 23, 2023, and identified a borrowing requirement of $1.5 billion for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2024. Today, we are introducing the Loan Act, 2023 . Under the authority of the Loan Act, 2023 , and

section 38 of the Financial Administration Act , we'll raise by way of loans not exceeding the amount of $1.5 billion.

The Loan Act, 2023 , will continue in full force and in effect until the $1.5 billion limit is reached or replaced by a subsequent loan act. The last loan act passed by the Legislature was the Loan Act, 2022 , which provided long-term borrowing authority of up to $2.7 billion. So as of March 31, 2023, the province borrowed $1.7 billion in long-term borrowing. This is significant as it shows that we lowered our anticipated borrowing for last year by a billion dollars.

The Financial Administration Act authorizes new borrowings for the purpose of redeeming or retiring debt, making sinking fund contributions or for retiring unfunded pension liabilities. The Loan Act, 2023 , is required in order to provide specific long-term borrowing authority to meet the 2023-2024 budgetary requirements.

Now, I'd like to point out that of this $1.5 billion in new borrowing, $900 million is required in order to allow the province to meet its financial commitments. This includes capital account spending for things like infrastructure, including roads, health care and capital assets. Some examples of that are the construction of the new regional hospital in Corner Brook; the adult mental health and addictions hospital in St.

John's; renovations and improvements for the health care facilities in the acquisition of new health care equipment; redevelopment of the Health Sciences Centre; planning and construction of three new schools: one in Cartwright, Portugal Cove-St. Philip's and Kenmount Terrace, as well as the redevelopment of the school in Pilley's Island; for the planning and procurement of the new hospital to replace St. Clare's Mercy Hospital; the new Cardiovascular and Stroke Institute; as well as money to advance work on a new correctional facility to replace Her Majesty's Penitentiary.

That's over $7 million allocated for that alone. And debt repayments coming due in '23-'24 consist of $600 million. That is important to note that we're not just borrowing exclusively to pay down our debt.

Government continues to be committed to improving Treasury management. Monies borrowed are used to pay for government programs and services or to service the existing debt. Like all Canadian provinces, the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador funds its borrowing requirements by issuing bonds in capital markets. We issue publicly traded debentures through a syndicate of investment dealers. These bonds are publicly traded and primarily held by a broad base of institutional investors.

As part of our debt management plan, earlier this year we officially launched the province's European borrowing program, though there has been no debt issuance to date. By establishing the European borrowing program and listing with the London Stock Exchange, Newfoundland and Labrador has the option to issue bonds in the European capital market, in addition to existing domestic Canadian market to meet its borrowing requirements.

Diversifying the province's investor base and broadening the reach to international markets provides an opportunity to continue to lower borrowing costs. This is part of the government's strategic financial plan to return to balanced budgets, lower the cost of borrowing and decrease the debt.

It includes fixing the financing of the Muskrat Falls Project through a $5.2-billion rate mitigation agreement with the federal government; prudent fiscal governance, including transformation and modernization of government; strengthening the role of the Auditor General and balanced budget legislation; and responsible debt management, including effective Treasury management, optimizing investment performance and establishing a Future Fund.

Chair, our plan is working. We are seeing results through such things as stable credit ratings, improved financial outlooks and the GDP ratio of approximately 37 per cent in '22-'23. In 2020 it was well over 50 per cent. We are continuing on a path to achieve a stronger, smarter, self-sufficient, sustainable Newfoundland and Labrador.

With that, Chair, I'll take my chair.

CHAIR: Thank you.

The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

D. BRAZIL: Thank you, Chair.

Again, it's an honour to stand here. As we are in the final debate stages of the 2023-2024 budget of Newfoundland and Labrador, nearly a $10-billion budget process and as the minister had outlined and I've spoken to it, myself and my colleagues, and other Members of the House, about the protocol and the process here on a budgetary process. We've spent 75 hours in debate.

We've had Estimates continuously where we drilled down on particulars in line departments on the financing, the expenditures, the change in policies, what they reflect and the change in financing from last year to this year, what was spent, what wasn't, what is new spends, what is carry-over spends as part of the process here. We wanted to do that so those who are watching would have a better understanding of exactly the accountability for spending the taxpayers' money.

The second avenue was we wanted to make sure that everybody in this House is seen in a transparent and open light so that any questions that people may have – and we've had them where on a moment's notice someone will send an email or a text to one of us when we're in Committee and say I don't understand this. What will happen with this program? Then we get the opportunity to ask about the line to ministers.

I'm happy to say the ministers were extremely co-operative in this process and they had very professional and talented and experienced bureaucrats with them to be able the get the line items – because there is no way any minister would know the integral workings of every program and service within government.

I remember one time as minister of Transportation and Works, at the time, and being in Estimates and having one of the Opposition Members continuously asking me about culverts, the size of a culvert in a drain in a particular area. You know, while I found it comical at the point, it was a bit agitating because I wanted to talk about the bigger picture, how we would get to improving infrastructure and what were the priorities in infrastructure as part of that. While I understood it was a priority for that Member in a particular area but that's why we have regional offices to be able to deal with specific things on the ground and address those particular issues.

So I am glad to say, from our perspective – and I have watched my caucus shadow ministers here do a very professional job in working with the line departments and the ministers to ask questions that were relevant to explaining exactly the expenditure items and the revenue items in some cases, and then making it clear from a minister's perspective and their staff to the general public of exactly where the money was going to be spent and, hopefully, what the benefits would be for the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

Now, there were times that my colleagues here, and even myself, didn't agree with the approach that was being used by a particular minister in a program or service that we didn't feel was the priority. But that is the rights and the privileges of the House of Assembly; we're not always going to agree. But we will agree that whatever programs and services are put forward, they should be thought out and they should reflect the particular needs of the majority of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians.

It may not, and you'll probably never be able to do this no matter what administration is there, be able to address all the particular issues, needs and wants of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador and we understand that.

I echo that to any future person who wants to get into politics, to think that you can come in and address every issue that you have heard from people, unfortunately it is not possible at any given time. You may be able to address them all over a period of time, but there has to be priorities put in play and that is where the budgetary process comes in.

Line departments will sit months in advance based on issues, programs, policies, expenditures and revenues from the previous year, look at what our continuous programs and services that need to be maintained – and there are certain things that need to be maintained. Our health care system needs to be maintained, our education system, our infrastructure system and supports for the most vulnerable. If it is seniors, if it is special needs adults and children, all of these particular things and there is a multitude of other priorities that have to be.

We have to find ways to drive our industries. If it is the fishing industry, particularly, if it is new innovative industries, if it is the IT industry, if it is the mineral industry, if it is the oil and gas industry, if it is all the other things that need to be done, programs and services must reflect exactly what is there. To do that, you obviously must have a budgetary process that generates the amount of money you need to do it.

In some cases – and I know economists might question you're borrowing money above and beyond what you're generating from a revenue perspective, but there are times, particularly if you have a long-term plan, where you know you're going to get to a balanced budget and you're probably going to get to a surplus, so it is beneficial and it is a good investment, the economy of scale process, to invest by borrowing in a program or a service necessary so that you're in a better place to generate more revenue and actually have a surplus that you can then put into either other programs or pay down on the debt that you borrowed against to minimize that.

There is a moving part that is continuous in the financial operations of any government as part of that process. One of them, and what we're talking about here, is Bill 37, to authorize the raising of monies by the way of loan by the province. Monies have to be borrowed. The expenditures and the revenues that are generated in the budget are for a whole 12-month cycle. Now there's always carry-over because at times it's impossible to spend all the monies based on contracts that may go out, things that get delayed and things that get deferred as part of that process.

In other cases, there may be emergency spending that may have to take place that you didn't anticipate. So there has to be contingencies built into that.

But while you're waiting to generate your revenues, you have to be able to have the ability to continue to have the civil service work and provide the services, make sure that we have our health care and our education, our infrastructure as part of that. So initially, you have to borrow monies quicker and immediately, and you have to borrow beyond what you're probably going to generate from a revenue perspective.

In some cases, if there's a revenue going to be generated from another outside entity, like the federal government, then obviously the payment process there it may be quarterly, it may be once a year and it could be later in the year. So there are monies that need to be done upfront.

So it's a standard process that is used by every administration. It varies on the amount that has to be borrowed upfront and that obviously has a bearing on the budget that's being put forward. This is a very, very substantial budget at nearly $10 billion. One of the highest budgets that we've ever had in Newfoundland and Labrador's history as part of that process. We, on this side, have had the privilege and the responsibility of ensuring that that $10 billion is going to go to benefit the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

So we've been very diligent and my caucus Members have been very diligent here and the staff that work for us in doing research and digging down deep to get clarification on exact programs and services and how it's going to benefit individuals who may be able to avail of certain programs and services, and to ensure that there's proper accountability on every cent that's been spent of taxpayers' money by any line department in Newfoundland and Labrador while, at the same time, ensuring that we stand up for our equitable, fair share from Ottawa when it comes to transfers or program development or partnership development, depending on what's happening here.

But also to find ways to expedite the spending because people need immediate interventions.

The Minister of Infrastructure will understand while you can tout, very quickly, we're coming out with early tenders and it's great – I liked the concept; it was administered there. We had started that in the last year that I was there to move those along because the industry said we could do it. But now the industry are telling me the problems we have with that is there's not enough support staff within the department from an engineering point of view to be able to sign off on all the contracts that come in in an expedited way so that the majority of that work can be done and completed within the fiscal year.

But particularly in the construction year and, in some cases, the paving year because it's shortened by four months, or almost five when it comes to a fiscal end, so there are some challenges there.

That's not necessarily on the minister or his department; it is because they're responsible for it, but in some cases there are just not – and we're running into a number of shortfalls in every profession – enough professionals available to be able to do it. They're either gone on to something else or, in some cases, maybe there's a lull in not being proactive in training more people or encouraging more to go into specific areas as part of Newfoundland and Labrador.

I only say that to outline the fact that at the end of the year people will say: How did the government carry over a billion dollars? Well, do you know what? Unfortunately, circumstances, sometimes in the control of the government, sometimes not, dictate that not everything gets done. I've had it a number of times, projects in my own district, where people expected there was a completion date that didn't get done for a number of reasons, either there was a shutdown on being able to get certain pieces of equipment or materials you needed or certain professionals weren't there or our priority became relevant to somewhere else. So that becomes an issue.

It's very important that monies can be borrowed as quickly as possible and put in play so that the programs and services that we offer here are immediately put in play; there's no delay on particular infrastructure projects because they are so important. If it's the process of completing a road, fixing a bridge, building a school, upgrading a clinic, whatever it may be, particularly around those things, contracts have to be signed and initiatives have to be put in play as part of that.

But the primary objective here is to ensure there's no delay in the civil service, who provide the service, being able to get their pay. It's the longevity of including the money upfront as we start generating revenue as we go through the whole process.

I'll take a few minutes to talk about some of the money that's going to be spent in this budget that will be beneficial. Myself and the minister have had some open discussions. Sometimes we disagree on where the priorities may be. I understand that and I respect the work that's been done by her and her department. I respect how they prioritize things. As the minister might say, we're voting against what's good in the budget, and that couldn't be further from the truth.

We respect, support, encourage and will promote what's good in the budget here that will help improve people's lives and will fill a gap, particularly if it's an economic one or access to a program or service. We are very much supportive of that. But we still have some issues around gaps in services for people that are going to be hit hardest by the financial downturn in our economy, but particularly the financial costing on the individual citizen when it comes to the cost of living.

There are a number of things that we talk about here. Last year, it was welcomed, the $500 cheque. We supported that. I would have thought we would have done it; the threshold would have changed had it been our administration so that people who were more vulnerable and had more financial challenges would have gotten a bigger part of that.

T hose in a different tax bracket, which I realize everybody was hit by the increase in cost of living, but there would have been a more equitable way for those who could absorb the additional cost in one end versus supporting those who can't in the other end and have to make some life-altering choices around health safety, food security, about their medications, about their warmth in a given period and even about their own mental stress of being able to be active with their kids or grandkids or their neighbours or social organizations as part of that.

So some challenges around what we would have prioritized as part of the process there.

Some of the other ones would have been around a recruitment process for our health care professionals. I give full kudos, there's not one program that the administration have announced that we don't support when it comes to recruitment for nurses, for doctors, for other health professionals, not one. We encouraged that. Our criticism has been around how we would have done it a bit differently. How we would have prioritized certain things. How we would have gotten ahead of the game and being more proactive than reactive on a number of things. How we would have prioritized the immediate student going into a health care, post-secondary training program, an institution.

The day they went in there, they would have known the provincial government are ready to hire them when they come out and here's all we ask of you. We ask that you commit to your studies, you come out as a certified professional in whatever category that may be, if it's a medical school, if it's a nursing school, if it's the physiotherapist school, if it's the respiratory therapist, if it's a pharmacist or pharmacy tech, whatever it may be that we need in the multitude of sectors in Newfoundland and Labrador to improve health care, we would guarantee, we will have employment.

Now, if you want to do some specific things and you want to go to a more rural or remote area, or you want to specialize in the specific area that we may need you to help offset access or improve access to health care, we will give you some additional incentives. Here's what we'll do: Not only will we treat you fairly but we want to show the value of the work you do and the skill set you have and the commitment you have for the next 30-plus years in the health care profession and the ability.

If you want to retrain, if you want to change your scope of work within the focus of health care, because it's easy for one health care professional at one level to want to decide that I'm comfortable here but I think I could move to another level, I'd be comfortable retraining to something else, offering another skill set and provide another health care service to the people of this province.

There are a number of things there that we would have prioritized as part of our processes in the budgetary process here. We would have been a little bit more explicit, open and transparent about specific areas and what we would have been offering. Because the minute you hold stuff back, the more people get suspicious or the more people think, well, maybe there's more favoritism to one sector than the other sector. We can't do that in our society.

Every component of every program and service we offer is very important. If you neglect one part of it, it's going to have a negative effect on the chain of providing services in this province. So there are a number of things here that we've endorsed, but there are a number of things here that we would have suggested that we felt, from what we've heard from our constituents, what we've heard from constituents from our colleagues on the Liberal side and from the Third Party and independents that would have been beneficial had it been addressed in the budget process.

But I will say, there a number of things in the budget that we support, a number of things that we would have liked to have seen that would have improved people's lives. We'll keep continuing to push that because we know there are alterations that can be done as government goes through its process.

I will say, we will be supporting the bill to borrow the money now so that Newfoundland and Labrador can move in the right direction.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Bonavista.

C. PARDY: Thank you, Chair.

I only have 10 minutes so I'm going to speak a little quicker than normal, but I want to recognize those viewers watching from home. I'm sincere in saying that they are watching from home, like Mr. Ben Tippett who is watching this morning from Bonavista tuned in to see what the Loan Act is all about.

Then we have Sandra. You've heard Sandra's name mentioned many times. She is interested in the L oan Act and she wants me to correct the record because she said I misrepresented her income. I stated $637 a month is what she's getting on assistance, but really is it $632. So I just want to correct the record. She's still struggling to make ends meet and I know the budget has made efforts but in her mind not enough.

The other one would be Cyril Abbott. This gentleman came into my office when we had constituency week. I would say Cyril Abbott is the longest-serving veteran in our province, conceivably. One would say: How would you know that? Because as soon as he was finished service, he joined the Newfoundland Rangers which is a continuation of this service. He figures that at this point in time he may just be the longest serving veteran in our province. I'm sure that we can check that out officially to find out Mr. Cyril Abbott.

What a gentleman and a future Member's statement will be for Mr. Abbott.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

C. PARDY: The other one when we look at the budget and the Loan Act are the workers at the Ocean Choice International fishery products plant in Bonavista which employs 400 people, of which now, I stated a week ago, there were 30 whose Employment Insurance benefit had elapsed. There are more than 30. I can't give you an exact number but I know we've exceeded 30. They are in a tough spot.

A question we would ask the government: What pursuits have you taken to make sure that these people have income until the fishery dispute is resolved and we get out on the water so these people can get back to work where they want to? That's a fair question we ask.

Instead of asking the question, sometimes it's nice for a government to stand and say here are the initiatives we took and here are the steps we've taken to make sure that people are looked after, that their benefits have continued or are going to continue until the resolution. We haven't heard that, but that's a good question to ask.

We look at the Loan Act and the minister has stated that it was a celebration. Any time you borrow less than what you forecast is a good thing. So I think she had referenced that we had borrowed $1 billion less than what we had anticipated, which is good. We're still borrowing a fair amount of money and that money that we borrow is to make sure that we can provide the services. Our question with the budget lots of times is what may not be in the budget that we think ought to be there.

The minister also says and uses the word “balanced.” I shared a story with you about this couple that had a twin one time. One was an optimist and one was a pessimist. Remember the balance? We all agreed that balance was important. So we agree fully with the balance. In order to be balanced, we need to be fiscally responsible. Management of our resources or finances are the way they ought to be and we need to make strategic investments.

I overheard Nancy Snedden. I'm not a frequent or avid listener to it and I probably should be but I noticed that they had stated last night, when she looked at the Canadian statistics she said that Canadians, for every $1 they make, they owe $1.82. That's an alarming statistic: Canadians, for every $1 they make, they owe $1.82.

What that's indicative of is they cannot make ends meet. They're out there in the economy with the cost of living, they cannot make ends meet, and that's an issue. That's an issue that the budget is supposed to address. If we've got people out there that can't make ends meet, the budget is supposed to adequately address it so that we see a direction and a pathway where people can make ends meet, and that's fair. That what we critique the budget on, to make sure that it's strategic that people out there, under the pressure of the cost of living, can make ends meet.

Our debt servicing cost this year will be $722 million, closer to $723 million. That means that that's the amount we're going to need to carry forward on interest to pay off the interest on the debt that we owe. That is down from the year before, which is a good thing. But when the minister says that we need to make sure of the management of our finances – I spoke yesterday about all the capital construction we have in our province. I mentioned it was $1.52 billion-plus. That's new investment. It's new investment in capital construction that we badly need. Nobody is doubting that we don't need top-notch buildings like hospitals and long-term care homes.

The only thing that was questioned that I had stated was the fact that I don't see where the oversight is on that spending and those contracts that would be under the title of P3s. The oversight rests solely with Cabinet. I stated the Muskrat inquiry where the Muskrat inquiry stated that anything in excess of $50 million we ought to have external oversight. Whether it be the Public Utilities Board, whether it be an all-party Committee or something that would provide a bit of oversight to say we endorse, we think the direction and the contract you just signed for this $1.5 billion-plus expenditure is spent wisely.

While we have trust, oversight is integral to sound fiscal management and sound strategic investments. Nobody argues that oversight is not needed. When the minister stood in this place yesterday and reflected back on the Muskrat commission, he mentioned we have oversight in our House here, that we bring it to the House and the budget and we have oversight. But when you look at that we have debt that would be $600 million related to, I am assuming, capital construction that we'll need to have cash for, the question would be, what oversight do we have on that $600 million?

Chair, I would say that would be a fair question that the minister, maybe when she stands, would say we have oversight; it is only through the Cabinet that has oversight. Or is there another oversight provided that provided that we're not aware of? And that would be a good question.

I also stated to the point where I'm really interested in the equity stake that's forecasted or that comes in '24-'25 from the Hebron royalty structure. Remember, we go from 1 per cent – between low percentages and now with all the capital costs being paid off, we're going to jump to 36.5 per cent. How much money does that equity stake forecast to bring us in in '24-'25? That's another nice question that the minister can note, that she can inform us, because I'm sure her department would have an estimate on that equity stake that she has there.

The cost of living that would be out there and getting people back to work is important. That's the functioning of government. Every time that our leader would have stood up and asked is the Premier been in the room face to face with these parties in the fishery to get them back to work, that's an important question. That's an important question that the Ocean Choice International workers at the plant in Bonavista would want to hear and would expect that the Premier is part of.

Because, to them, there are not many things more important right now than getting back to work and make sure they can provide for their families. That is paramount for the fisheries workers in Bonavista and the plants that would be in my neighbouring District of Terra Nova and so on, a very important question.

Thank you, Chair.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

CHAIR: The Chair is recognizing the Member for Mount Pearl - Southlands.

P. LANE: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I am glad to have an opportunity to speak to this. I guess, first of all, just to say I'll support the motion. It's good to see that borrowing requirements are going down. That's a positive thing. I think we would all hope for a time that it would be unnecessary altogether.

I will also say, as this is part of the overall budget, I will certainly restate, I suppose, that I will support the budget. I do have concerns. I don't know about so much concerns, but I understand my colleagues and the Official Opposition, the concerns that they have around what they would view as not enough planning or at least the plan is not made clear enough to everybody, perhaps, in the public. I get that.

Plus there's sort of that tradition as well that the Official Opposition holds government to account so they likely wouldn't support it even if they did support it, out of tradition more than anything else. We know it's going to pass anyway because government has a majority. So that's kind of where that stands and that's where I stand on the budget.

One thing that I did not bring up in the past that I'm going to bring up here now, something that's not in the budget and something that I think needs to be considered, that's the position of an ethics commissioner. I think that's an important piece of business that needs to happen in this House. I mentioned this the other day to some degree. I had an individual reach out to me a while ago, and the person wanted to remain anonymous. I know who the person is, but I would say a very reliable source who indicated to me that the individual had significant concerns around how government deals with blind trust.

That blind trust in the traditional sense of the word, as people might want to portray it that you totally separate yourself from your business, that there's no way possible that there can be any conflict of interest and so on, is really not the way it's operating.

That's not to say that Members past and present are not following the guidelines as outlined by the Commissioner for Legislative Standards; nobody is suggesting that. But it is a case of perhaps the expectations that may be there under the policies and what has traditionally been required by the Commissioner for Legislative Standards, it was suggested to me, does not go far enough to ensure that there are no conflicts of interest or potential conflicts of interest that could occur with Members who have business interests that are in high office.

So certainly one of the things that I think I would like to see is for us to be able to have a review of that process, because I honestly don't know and understand that process myself. I don't have any businesses or anything myself, I'm not in a Cabinet position anyway, so there is nothing really that I could influence in any regard. I don't have that situation so I can't honestly say that I have a true understanding of what standards are being set and what are all the checks and balances to make sure that there is no conflict of interest when it comes to these blind trusts.

I think that the time has come, because I don't think it has been done – certainly not since I have been here – any sort of review by an outside, independent party to ensure that whatever protocols are in place is protecting the public and ensuring that conflict of interest cannot occur.

I would further say, we were here on Monday evening and this raised a real red flag to me. Nobody seemed to be paying attention to what my colleague for Humber - Bay of Islands was saying when he spoke, nobody even flinched. It was a red flag to me immediately when he spoke of this in the House of Assembly. It kind of surprised me a little bit.

He talked about the fact that there was a situation whereby – this is all public anyway – we had a high profile real estate business, we all know it was all over the media, resulted in charges being laid, an individual was sentenced for two years, less a day, for I guess what was deemed by the courts as being a breach as it relates to money and the handling of money and so on.

The Member for Humber - Bay of Islands – and I don't have the Hansard in front of me because it is not prepared, but I know what I heard him say. He said that at that time he was a minister, Service NL, that would be dealing with the real estate licensures and so on and that the premier of the day sent his chief of staff or one of his staff people to the office when this whole issue was being discussed because, allegedly, he had his own involvement with that particular company.

So if that is the case, I'm only going by what the man said, I'm only going by what the Member for Humber - Bay of Islands said, I have no reason to think he would lie about it. But if what he is saying is correct, then if you were in a blind trust and you have no idea, supposedly, no idea what's going on with your business interests, because it's with a third party, and you have no idea what's going on, then why would that have happened? Why would that have happened?

That is a concern. I don't know how others feel. I mean, nobody over there was involved in it, so I'm not making allegations about anybody over there, or over here for that matter. I'm just saying what the Member for Humber - Bay of Islands said is a red flag; it's concerning.

It points to the fact that maybe we have an issue with how blind trusts are being dealt with and how it's being policed. If breaches occur, how it's being dealt with. It is a concern.

I know there was also a complaint that went into the Commissioner for Legislative Standards about a Newfoundland and Labrador Housing project, which the former Member had involvement, his company had involvement with that. It came back and they said, well, only the seniors benefited, which I have to question that decision-making of the Commissioner for Legislative Standards, at the time, to suggest that you give taxpayers' money to a program, to a business, that's operated by a Member of the House of Assembly, the seniors benefited but the business didn't benefit. It's all in the report, public, but it's concerning about how this stuff is being interpreted by that office and so on.

I think the time has come that we do a review of blind trusts, conflicts of interest; an independent, outside view of how it's being dealt with now to make sure it's being done properly, to recommend ways that we can improve it. I also seriously think we need to consider bringing in an independent ethics commissioner to ensure that if things are not being done above board in the way they should, that there's someone that we can report to, outside, with no skin in the game, who can ensure that the public purse is protected and that things are operating the way they should. It should all be going to this House of Assembly, 100 per cent.

So I would recommend, I guess, and to tie it back into the budget, this is something that's not in the budget, but it's something that I believe should be part of the budget, that independent review and an ethics commissioner to report to this House of Assembly.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

CHAIR: Thank you.

The Chair is recognizing the hon. Member for Lake Melville.

P. TRIMPER: Thank you, Chair.

I wanted to speak a little bit to this Loan Act here this morning. I guess, by way of an analogy, I thought it would be useful to go back a few years. I like to a lot about my in-laws and some of the ways that they look at the world.

Back in 2015, when I was first elected, and frankly, a lot of the Members here were first elected, and then that wonderful first budget of 2016 and what we all went through on the government side – the rushing debt, the very close call. We came very close to trying to determine whether or not we could even meet payroll. It was a shocking reality. One is not able to speak a lot at what goes on in a Cabinet room, but I certainly remember when I first heard that news as to what the fiscal reality was.

Anyway, about late April or so of that year my mother-in-law, Lan Hong, formerly of Hong's Take-Out, she felt very sorry for the situation I was in, the government was in, the province was in. She presented me with a money tree. It was a small plant at the time and – bless her heart – she put some nickels in around the little tree and it was about a foot high and we called it Fiscal. Fiscal has been with me throughout my whole eight years of political journey, different locations, different places in this room. Anyway, Fiscal is doing well and I checked on him this morning. I'm going to come back to that in a second.

Back at that time in 2015-2016, the deficit that occurred was some $2.2 billion. Following the election in November of 2015, that first budget that came out in 2016 the actual deficit was $1.1 billion. We managed to cut it in half. Anyway, the point I want to make is that there has been a plan – I keep hearing the Opposition and others will often say there's no plan. Well, in fact, there's been a very good plan and it's been tough. It's tough to explain. It's complicated. But let the numbers speak for themselves.

Let's go back in time and just track – and I just asked the Finance Minister if she could just provide me with a snapshot of some of the key parameters. It's fascinating to look at the deficit, year over year, from 2015 at $2.2 billion to this year's projection of $159 million – quite an improvement. When I hear terms like accusations that we're somehow being reactive, not proactive, I can only go back to the big scheme of things and back in 2015 when we walked into this room and the foresight and the planning to be at the point that we are now where, by next year, we're actually forecasting a surplus.

Not based on big windfalls or one-off situations, but on strong, fiscal management, on paying attention to the books, but also raising so many other aspects and quality of life for the people of this province.

Again, the Finance Minister kind of overloaded me in my 10 minutes of some of the key parameters. But two that I'd like to pick up on that I think are quite interesting is one, first of all, from an employment perspective, our employment rate is going up; the unemployment rate is going down. Our labour force is growing; our population is also growing. I'd like to speak a lot about the Ukrainians and what they're doing for our province. I certainly see what they're doing in our community of Happy Valley-Goose Bay and some other parameters.

But here's a good one that I find is very telling: Total revenue per capita is now $19,780 projected for 2022-2023. The average for all Canadian provinces is $14,000 and change. It's not often that Newfoundland and Labrador starts to exceed or is exceeding that national average. More and more, as you look at some of these benchmark parameters, you're seeing that.

Here's another key one: Total revenue is a percentage of GDP – and I know she likes to speak about this a lot – our total revenue as a percentage of GDP is 24.5 per cent. The average for all Canadian provinces is 20 per cent. So that means that our population is kicking into gear. The folks that are contributing are contributing well and on balance as our population grows, as we get our fiscal house in order, we are starting to really see a big difference.

Three things happened to me this morning, and I was kind of thinking about them as I thought I might have a chance to speak about it. At first I was just speaking and thinking about the progress in the last eight years. There's going to be a little hanging here, so I was reflecting back on my last eight years and I just look at some of the key things that have happened in the District of Lake Melville and across Labrador and across this province. Things like completion of the paving of the Trans-Labrador Highway; finally getting this highway started.

I talked a lot about this 520. The last time it really had substantial repairs and pavement to it was when the Queen came in 1997. I remember the running joke has been – between different administrations – is perhaps it will take another monarch to show up before we get our highway paved again. Well, I'm pleased to say the work is under way and some $7.5 million allocated this year to fix a sorely needed but very important highway.

Things like that that you see – the six-bed mental health addition to our hospital is going to make a huge difference for folks who are struggling with mental health issues and being able to secure and seek that support right there in the community of Happy Valley-Goose Bay in Labrador. The additions to the Labrador Correctional Centre and I can go on and on. So many good things are going on both in the district and across the province.

Back to this morning. So I'm listening to the radio and one of the first things I hear this morning was the Minister of Industry, Energy and Technology. He's over in Rotterdam. He's with a delegation, I think, of some 75 representatives of our province at the world conference on hydrogen.

Here we are, I often describe us as the sub-national government. Well, I tell you, we're punching well above our weight. There's a delegation right now in Western Europe that has just signed a deal with the Port of Rotterdam and we are there. This isn't just a little passing fade. The world is realizing we need to find a cleaner, greener way to produce energy and consume it, and I'm very proud of the way that Newfoundland and Labrador is responding. So that was a wonderful little thing.

About an hour ago, I walked into a briefing on one of the bills that we're considering and some of the researchers in the Government Members' Office were saying – and they were a little bit frustrated because they keep hearing both Opposition or critics are saying things like crisis. We're in crisis. The fact is, as you look across the country and certainly around the world, you can see that Newfoundland and Labrador is actually doing very well. Do we have problems? Oh yes, we have some serious problems. Are we working on them? I believe we are and I believe we're working collectively and collaboratively to solve them.

We will get there and we can't take our eye off the ball, but I looked out again across the country and I'm saying we're doing quite well. Then I think back eight years and I say we're doing really well.

The third thing that I did this morning, before I came in here, was I walked down the hallway to see Dianne Randell. She said: I think we need a new pot for Fiscal. So I walked into her office, and for those who are in the Government Members, you'll know as you walk in – that money tree that used to be about foot high some eight years ago is almost starting to look us in the eye. I just measured his pot this morning and I've got some friends in town and, anyway, we've got to go find a new pot and some potting soil for him because Fiscal is doing great.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

P. TRIMPER: I thank my mother-in-law for, again, helping with that foresight. I've got some of these rusty old nickels there. I'm going to give her one or two there. She's going to be here shortly. She said: Do you know what? You take care of that plant and you make a plan and it will grow for you, and it has.

I'd like to thank my mother-in-law. I'd like to thank government. I'd like to thank all the MHAs and legislatures across the country because we are here doing our best and we're going to keep doing it and Newfoundland and Labrador is going to shine.

Thank you very much.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

CHAIR: The hon. the Leader of the Third Party.

J. DINN: Thank you, Chair.

So let's start off with fiscal deficit, that seems to be the gold standard, but in doing so it triggered a memory in terms of some of things I talked about when I was first elected in that in solving a fiscal deficit have we just simply transferred or created an infrastructure deficit, a social services deficit, a resource deficit, a health deficit, an education deficit. We think all these other deficits come without cost but they don't.

So whether at your food bank and your finding an increased need and you're finding fewer donors – I volunteered with Saint Vincent de Paul for many years, you can see the trends, there's a cost that's not always reflected in the books of government about priorities and planning.

Now, the Minister of Finance listed the new school in Portugal Cove-St. Philip's, and I'm coming back to this from an education point of view because, on one hand, say what I will about the –

(Disturbance.)

J. DINN: I guess it's that emergency alert.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible.)

J. DINN: I know, very alarming.

AN HON. MEMBER: You said something wrong.

J. DINN: I must have said something wrong.

But here's the thing, I'm assuming that this school district had done the projections, had determined the need and decided where schools must be built and what ones weren't a priority. Yet, I've heard the minister talk about, well, once we get the data and the facts, we'll have a better understanding of where the needs are. Yet, this new school was going to be built, Chair, without – well, we haven't seen any facts, figures or details. It was decided outside of the district's priorities.

But here are some of the questions I'm concerned about with regard to resourcing, because I taught my last few years in Holy Heart. I also taught in a small school up in the Ferryland District. I can tell you that at Holy Heart, the programs that were available in courses, in the services you had, that students had at their disposal, was night and day compared to what I had in some of the smaller schools. By virtue of the large school community, the large numbers there were able to offer the different courses, a variety of courses and extracurricular and so on and so forth.

My fear is that it doesn't take much detailed investigation to realize that if you split a school like Prince of Wales Collegiate, a population of 624 and you split that in half, that you're going to impact the availability or access to school counsellors, instructional resource teachers, learning resource teachers to secretarial support, you name it.

I know the other part, too, it's interesting, despite my various stances on this and the media, I've yet to have anyone come to me and say well, that's a bad idea, don't rain on our parade. Because I know when I taught at Holy Heart, when the students from Shea Heights were transferred into Holy Heart, there was certainly an adjustment period because they were losing their high school up in Shea Heights. But it didn't take long – I would say within a few years, Chair – if you asked any of the students and the parents, they didn't want to come back. They wouldn't settle for a small school.

The opportunities that were available to them in a larger school were significant: the opportunities, the new friends they met, the integration, you name it.

So I think here when we're talking about budgetary decisions and looking at money that's set aside for a new school, somewhere along the line there is going to be hidden costs and ramifications to what's offered to students and to that school community. It's going to be devastating to both schools, I would argue. That doesn't speak to me of a plan or a priority. Yet, we have Frank Roberts intermediate – and that's not the only school, by the way – that is in desperate need. The facts just speak for themselves. They are in desperate need of some renovations or just a new facility.

We have the need for a new school out in Topsail - Paradise. That's probably the fastest growing community right now, one of. In many ways, if we're going to look at the bang for the buck, if that's what this is about, then that's probably where the investment is needed. But if we're also looking at the fiscal restraint, if we're looking at making sure we don't have a fiscal deficit, what we are doing is we are creating infrastructure resource deficits in our school and other parts. Make no mistake, there's a price to be paid and someone's paying for it, often the most vulnerable.

I go back to Holy Heart because if any of you have been through it and gone through it, to me, it was a remarkable school in terms of the Sisters of Mercy and the Presentation Sisters, I'll give them credit for this, the forethought in terms of a full-sized auditorium on par with the Arts and Culture Centre, an AV room, music rooms, science labs, you name it. They had forethought. The only school, I guess, I've ever been into that would approach it was my first year teaching and that was in St. Lawrence central high school. That was a dream school; that was absolutely amazing with the resources they had. That showed you what you could do with the infrastructure investment.

I remember a few years when I was at Holy Heart they were looking at, well, we're going to close this school and build a new Holy Heart school for $50 million. But we knew that for what you were going to get for $50 million was not going to be the Holy Heart with the resources we had there. There was opposition and the money was reinvested in the school. I would say that's probably one – not the, but one – of the flagship schools that are in the school system in terms of what it has here. The theatre arts programming, there are spaces to do that. To me, it shows what you can do.

But I would strongly object if someone said let's move half the students from Holy Heart somewhere else because automatically you would undercut and decimate the resources. When we're talking about fiscal deficits, about planning, about priorities, let's keep this in mind as to what the investment is.

I will say this, with dental visits – I need to point this out again – I've indicated that from 2018 to 2022, 21,000 people visited the emergency rooms for dental gum problems. Probably multiple repeats. Yet, I don't know if it was the same period, 2019 to now, we've underspent the adult dental surgical plan by some $12 million, if we look at the budget lines.

Now think about that, we've underspent. I can't help but think that a fraction of that money invested in making sure that seniors who were without dental care who need a tooth extraction who are having severe gum disease would be better served and it would save hospital visits to the emergency room and probably save applications to the adult dental surgical plan. That to me would be an investment.

Now it might be argued, someone would say, well, where are we going to get the money for that? Well, the money is already there in the fact that we've underspent. It's going to have a payoff.

I'll finish on this, I'll probably have more to say later if I get up, but with regard to this, even the process of having to bring people together, Chair, of someone applying for the adult dental surgical plan, you have to authorization, more or less, from a dentist. A dentist has to approve it. A doctor has got to say yes, this is needed. A board has to meet. They have to do the necessary deliberation and then it's going to be yes or nay. Then there's this surgery itself in a hospital under anesthetic.

So I've got to ask the question: Is that money that's better spent? Or is it better spent heading off that problem and taking care of that before we get to that need? I don't think many people want to go into hospital, under the knife, under anesthetic, for a problem that could be taken care of in a dentist chair. That's what this comes down to.

When we're talking about priorities, plans and fiscal deficit, let's make sure that we're not creating health deficits for vulnerable people of our population and deficits in our other services.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

CHAIR: The Chair is recognizing the hon. the Member for Ferryland.

L. O'DRISCOLL: Thank you, Chair.

It's certainly great to get up and have a few minutes to be able to speak on some of the issues in my district as well. Something that I've certainly spoken on before, but I do have some letters from a school in Trepassey and some Grade 7 and 9 students that had written me some letters. I just wanted to read them out. I've been speaking on the doctor issue in the district in Trepassey. I've been speaking on ambulance issues. These are coming from kids that are in Grades 7 to 9, some of these letters.

I'm not going to read them all out. I'm just going to read some of the lines that are in it. He said: I'm a resident from Trepassey and have some concerns with my town. I'm very concerned about the situation. Back last year, the second ambulance got removed from here, so now we only have one, and that's really bad with us having an aging community. We spoke about that many times here.

When you have an aging population, there are a lot more medical issues that happen at that age. A lot of people I know have diabetes, including some family members, and having that could mean a lot of things that could happen. What happens if a person runs out of insulin and needs it and they can't get medical attention and our ambulance is already on the way to St. John's? So very concerning.

I mean I can bring it up, but now I'm putting in the perspective where kids in high school are talking about it or kids in Grade 7 to 9. It's not just the medical care I'm worried about here; I'm worried about the younger people too. What happens when the last shop closes here? The problem is there are no businesses or jobs and the government needs to help our rural communities by keeping these ambulances and these doctors as well. That is just one letter.

Another one, she said, there are some major issues in our town; I'm sure you're aware of it. We certainly are. One of these issues is the ambulance that will soon be leaving in the next few months and our town really needs this service. We're an aging community. We're two hours from a hospital and what will happen if there's an emergency? I know that Premier Furey has promised to replace the private ambulance company but will this actually happen? We hope so.

That's a statement that a kid has made from Grade 8. So it's concerning for them. I'm sure they're listening to their parents and the people in their community talking about these issues, so it's pretty concerning.

I mean, they're pretty logical. We have two nurse practitioners replacing our doctor, which they're doing their best to accommodate all the people in the community. The problem is that the nurse practitioners are only in Trepassey two days a week. Why not have one nurse practitioners here for four days? Wow, coming from a kid in Grade 8. That's pretty logical.

We get up here and speak – I know that they're listening, but sometimes these are pretty logical answers that we don't seem to implement in our districts. There are lots of suggestions that we make and sometimes they're accommodated. Again, with ambulances when I dealt with Cape Broyle, there is certainly something that we dealt with and hope to deal with.

They said, or bring back our doctor. Something that was certainly brought up here many times. We had two doctors that went up there, three or four years ago, that put the health care and the system for registering people and they went up and recorded all their names and did everything that they needed for the community, these two doctors. They went up for six months. They stayed there three years.

After three years, one doctor was retiring and had her own practice and is now moved on to go to Fogo. That's her choice to do that, but there was another young doctor there and she wanted to stay in the community but Eastern Health didn't think it was something that was needed. So they set up nurse practitioners there for two days a week and they could go together.

She had come up with all kinds of solutions that she could help. She could travel with the nurse practitioner if they wanted. No, they couldn't do that. The nurse practitioners in the area take appointments every half hour. They see a person every half hour and there are two of them there. A doctor, sometimes, if a patient only comes in for five minutes, then they take the next patient right away and not wait for the half hour to expire. They're taking a patient right away. They're seeing as many as they can.

There are issues – and I have spoken to the two of them and it's incredible that the Eastern Health cannot see some way to get a doctor in that district when there's one that wants to go there.

I have said in here and I thought for sure that it was something we could sit down and be able to iron out and get a doctor in the district. It hasn't happened yet and I thought for sure that would happen. Certainly with somebody that's interested in being a doctor in rural Newfoundland and they can't make it happen.

Well, maybe it's because when the former minister was in, they came out and spoke publicly about the minister and it seems like she's been on a list now that's it not happening. It's not happening. She spoke out against them and said things that could happen in the area. She wrote letters. She is after doing everything she can to get in the area. They don't seem to want to make it happen. I've dealt with it and I can't understand how it doesn't happen.

We have somebody that is interested in going into rural Newfoundland and you're talking about doctors and retention and recruitment and we have somebody that wants to go in the area, has a vested interest in the area, and they can't make it happen. That is incredible.

Also, a couple more sentences out of another letter, another student said: Anything can happen. If somebody broke their leg or arm or go to the clinic and there is no nurse, what are you going to do? Then you'll have to drive two hours into town and you'll have to wait to get into the Janeway for an hour or two just to get X-rays to tell you it is broken or fractured. Then you have to wait another hour or two to get a cast. I should know because I broke my bone six years ago and had to wait hours upon hours to see a doctor to get an X-ray and a cast. I didn't get home until 2 in the morning – this is a personal story.

Another problem in our town that is very concerning to me, as other people in the town, is the fact that we're losing our ambulance service. Again, everybody knows in the district about the ambulances. Trepassey has two to three ambulances but now they might be going, which means somebody might have to wait 45 minutes to an hour for an ambulance to come to Trepassey from St. Mary's or Ferryland. Which basically when they say Ferryland, Cape Broyle is where the ambulance is stationed. My baby brother stopped breathing one night – he was one – and it took an ambulance from Trepassey 15 minutes to get to my house.

If they weren't at my house in time, he could have died. I hope you look into this more to try to keep our ambulances here and get a doctor for our clinic.

I got a couple more letters that I am going to read out later on. I'm not going to read out all the letters, just notes that they sent to me. It is not like I haven't said it; it is not like I haven't came out and spoke about it. It is just something that is very important in our district. The doctor is incredible; the doctor wants to stay there. They want to go up there and practise and they won't make it happen.

I spoke to the previous minister and this minister and it still hasn't happened because Eastern Health has seen some reason why they don't. It is like a personal thing that is going on, and I don't mind saying it. And I'm going to say it until it gets done; it is something personally going on with Eastern Health. It is not the minister. They got to get the situation fixed. I'm definitely not giving up on it; it is not going away. They need a doctor in that area and they have someone that wants to practise there and they can't make it happen. It is just mind blowing.

I'm going to move on to students and I am going to talk about this. We talk about education a little bit and I am going to get another chance later on. But I will talk about education and putting an educational program in the school. I always thought about this when I sold cars. We have kids that leave high school in Grade 12 and I always thought, as a salesperson, I would go into a Grade 12 class and speak to them about credit and how credit works for you as an individual.

You may leave and go to St. John's and there are three or four students that live in the one house together. So when they live in their house together, somebody's going to have the phone bill in their name, somebody's going to have a light bill in their name. There could be three or four and then a couple drop out. Now, all of a sudden, they're not going to pay the bill. You know now, they're 18 and 19 years old, they don't understand about credit. But the credit happens; you put that in your name, you're the one that's responsible, you're the one who's paying the bill. Then you say I'm not paying that bill.

They didn't pay me, I'm not paying the bill. But the only person that hurts is the person with it in their name.

So in the school structure, I think we should be in putting a – it could be a one-month course or a two-month course explaining to kids, because their parents never got that explanation and they have credit issues and whatever the case may be. But if they're in school and they learn or they at least understand how it works for them, personally. I know that when I sold cars, if somebody comes in, a young kid comes in and wants to buy a car, they don't understand that they don't have any credit.

I know when my daughters were in school, I made them apply for a credit card when they were 16 – a $500 limit – and if they put something on it, they had to understand that the money had to be paid back.

But they're the kind of things that we can do in the education program that will help society along the way. If people understand credit, then they're going to understand that you can't spend $500 when you've only got $300, or you can't put it on a credit card and not pay it off because it's going to hurt you in the long run.

That's just something that I thought when I was selling cars that we could touch on to help society, really. That would help society, if you got in and explained that in a course. It don't have to be a whole year-long course, but it's a course that kids could get in and understand; Grades 10 or 11 or 12, they understand the value of money and how it works for credit in their life situation later on.

That will help us when we get to our budget and you won't have as much money spent in society that they're overspending. That's what's happening in today's society from a lot of areas. But, again, I'll get a chance to speak on that later.

Thank you, Chair.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

CHAIR: The hon. the Deputy Government House Leader.

L. DEMPSTER: Chair, I move that the Committee rise and report progress and ask leave to sit again.

CHAIR: The motion is that the Committee rise, report progress and ask leave to sit again.

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

All those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against?

Motion carried.

On motion, that the Committee rise, report progress and ask leave to sit again, the Speaker returned to the Chair.

SPEAKER (Bennett): Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Baie Verte - Green Bay and Chair of the Committee of Ways and Means.

B. WARR: Speaker, the Committee of Ways and Means have considered the matters to them referred and have directed me to report that they have made progress and ask leave to sit again.

SPEAKER: The Chair of the Committee of Ways and Means reports that the Committee have considered the matters to them referred and reports they have made progress and ask leave to sit again.

When shall the report be received?

L. DEMPSTER: Now.

SPEAKER: Now.

When shall the Committee have leave to sit again?

L. DEMPSTER: Presently.

SPEAKER: Presently.

On motion, report received and adopted. Committee ordered to sit again presently, by leave.

SPEAKER: The hon. the Deputy Government House Leader.

L. DEMPSTER: Speaker, I move that this House do now recess until 2 p.m.

SPEAKER: This House do stand recessed until 2 p.m. this afternoon.

Recess

The House resumed at 2 p.m.

SPEAKER (Bennett): Order, please!

In the public gallery, I would like to welcome Roger Downer, Executive Director for The Vera Perlin Society. He will be the subject of a Member's statement this afternoon.

Welcome.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: Also in the public gallery, welcome to Ty Simms, Alex Mercer and Luke Mercer. They are also joined by their parents this afternoon. They are also the subject of a Member's statement.

Welcome.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Statements by Members

SPEAKER: Today, we will hear statements by the hon. Members for the Districts of St. George's - Humber, Placentia West - Bellevue, Bonavista, St. John's Centre and Topsail - Paradise.

The hon. the Member for St. George's Humber.

S. REID: Speaker, I rise today to let everyone know that the 2023 Codroy Valley Folk Festival will happen on July 29 and 30 of this year.

The Codroy Valley Folk Festival takes place in Upper Ferry. That's Route 406 off the Trans-Canada Highway at the recreation complex behind Belanger high school.

The festival was first introduced in 1982 and it will celebrate its 41st year in July. Throughout its history, the festival has played host to the best local talent the Codroy Valley has to offer and provided a venue each year for both residents and tourists to come together and celebrate the unique culture of this area.

The Codroy Valley is one of the few areas of the province with a prominent Scottish heritage. The music of the festival often includes a distinct Scottish flavour with bagpipes, Scottish dancing and fiddle playing, as well as other traditional and contemporary music.

The festival will be going ahead rain or shine under the big tent.

I commend the volunteers and encourage everyone to come out this year and enjoy all that the festival has to offer. It's July 29 and 30 in Codroy Valley.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Placentia West - Bellevue.

J. DWYER: Thank you, Speaker.

Speaker, on May 5, I was honoured to attend the graduation of the 2023 graduating class of St. Joseph's All Grade school located in Terrenceville in our beautiful district of Placentia West - Bellevue.

The five graduates are as follows: Abigail Bolt, Jayden Vaslett, Lucas Crane, Emma Francis and Kendra Hackett.

This is a remarkable achievement that marks the culmination of years of hard work, dedication and perseverance. Embrace the opportunities that lie ahead and never stop pursuing your dreams. Spread your wings and soar toward your dreams because the sky is the limit to your potential.

I would also like to thank all families, teachers and the community for their continued support, as it was very evident at their beautiful ceremony.

Speaker, I am asking all hon. Members of the 50th General Assembly to please join me in congratulating the 2023 graduating class of St. Joseph's All Grade school and wish them great success in their future endeavours.

Thank you, Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bonavista.

C. PARDY: Mr. Speaker, in granting Gus Etchegary an honourary doctorate, Memorial called him a stalwart knight who spent his life defending these waters, equally frank with ministers, union officials and harvesters.

At Fishery Products, Save Our Fisheries Association, the Fisheries Council of Canada, and as a former Canadian Commissioner to the International Commission for the Northwest Atlantic Fisheries, he won the fight for the 200-mile limit and didn't stop there, fighting to protect our resource and our people.

How better to honour Gus than with his own timely words: “We elect people to our federal parliament and provincial legislature so that they may safeguard our fish resource – which not only can keep communities alive, but provide badly needed jobs for our province teetering ….”

“About 10 years ago, when there was a downward trend in fish resources in Iceland, it came up with a plan to restore their fishery and today, Iceland is one of the most successful fishing nations in the world.”

Well said, Gus. Your fight is ours to continue.

We extend our deepest condolences to Kay, Glenn, Grant and his entire family, as well as the enormous circle of admirers of this giant of the Newfoundland and Labrador fisheries.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's Centre.

J. DINN: Thank you, Speaker.

John C. Maxwell said that “Every person has a longing to be significant; to make a contribution; to be a part of something noble and purposeful.”

That statement encapsulates a fundamental conviction of the eponymous founder of The Vera Perlin Society, which believes that individuals with developmental disabilities must be provided opportunities to achieve independence and full participation in all areas of community living.

Vera Perlin founded the society in 1954, believed that children with intellectual exceptionalities should be nurtured, and attend school.

The society – we have members here today – partners with government and community organizations to address employment challenges facing adults with intellectual exceptionalities. The W.O.R.C. program matches employer needs with client abilities. The Supported Employment Program provides individual support workers for clients. The Career Education and Exploration Program at CNA seeks to develop pre-employment skills. The Button Shop creates a safe, secure work environment for those who need it.

Individuals express their creativity through the renowned Perlin Players and participate in structured day and summer respite recreation programs.

We can help promote the Vera Perlin Society's vision of a more inclusive and prosperous society by supporting its 28th annual walk around Mundy Pond fundraiser on Saturday, June 3, and check the society's website for details.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Topsail - Paradise.

P. DINN: Thank you, Speaker.

The Salt Beef Junkies are three local musicians consisting of 16-year-old Ty Simms, 14-year-old Luke Mercer, and 11-year-old brother Alex Mercer, all from the District of Topsail - Paradise.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

P. DINN: Since 2019, they have been playing together as a group – think about that, 2019 – and between them play a variety of instruments, including the guitar, banjo, mandolin, bodhran, harmonica and accordion. The boys' traditional Irish-Newfoundland music style is a fan-favourite of locals and tourists, with having held regular spots downtown at O'Reilly's and Shamrock City and, just last summer, were the cultural ambassadors for the City of St. John's as they greeted tourists arriving on cruise ships.

These young men are rising stars on the folk arts scene and have played at many summer festivals, including the Brigus Blueberry Festival, the Lantern Festival, Newfoundland and Labrador Folk Festival and SunSplash in Paradise. The bands most exiting venture to date was an appearance on HGTV Rock Solid Builds , where they performed their own tune called “Cellar on the Hill.”

They are currently filling up their booking spaces for the upcoming summer and I would like to wish them congratulations and all the continued success.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: Statements by Ministers.

Statements by Ministers

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Children, Seniors and Social Development.

J. ABBOTT: Speaker, it is an honour to rise today in this hon. House to highlight our government's commitment to create a more inclusive province for all.

This board plays a pivotal role in advising on the development of standards, regulations and policies to identify, prevent and remove barriers for persons with disabilities. The first standard to be developed is a Customer Service Standard, and once implemented, the next one will be a Communications and Information Standard.

Speaker, our government embraces inclusion and diversity so that all Newfoundlanders and Labradorians can participate in, and contribute to, their communities.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Placentia West - Bellevue.

J. DWYER: Thank you, Speaker.

I would like to thank the hon. minister for the advance copy of his statement.

It is very unfortunate government has lagged behind on improvements to basic services like accessible housing. Hundreds of housing units sit empty, Speaker, while thousands of seniors, low-income families and individuals with disabilities sit on a wait-list. Even worse, a tiny fraction of proposed new housing will be fully accessible.

Unfortunately, that has not been the track record of the Furey government. Our caucus also renews our call for government to finally establish a long-promised disabilities advocate to work to examine the systemic barriers facing individuals and families.

Thank you, Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Third Party.

J. DINN: Thank you, Speaker.

I, too, thank the minister for the advance copy of his statement.

Speaker, all people in this province regardless of disability have the right to access and to live in their communities. We remind this government to look inward for what they can do with their policies so human rights are protected and top of mind instead of an afterthought. A deaf student should not have to go to the Human Rights Commission to access fully inclusive public education.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers?

The hon. the Minister of Digital Government and Service NL.

S. STOODLEY: Thank you, Speaker.

I ask all Members to join me in recognizing May as Motorcycle Awareness Month, and next week, May 16-22, as Canada Road Safety Week.

The chilly weather is slowly subsiding, mild temperatures and sunshine mean that motorcyclists are enjoying our scenic landscape and are using our roadways in greater numbers. All drivers should be looking, listening and ensuring they are safely sharing our highways and roadways with motorcyclists.

Canada Road Safety Week, an enforcement-driven initiative led by the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police, is designed to increase public compliance with safe driving measures. The focus of the campaign continues to be on the elimination of impaired driving, distracted driving, aggressive driving and driving without a seat belt.

This year's theme is Take the Wheel. This is a reminder to drivers that they should be always mindful of their behaviour in order to keep themselves, other drivers, passengers, motorcyclists, cyclists, construction workers and pedestrians safe.

Speaker, our government takes road safety and enforcement very seriously. Last year we increased fines, demerit points and the number of days that a vehicle may be impounded for excessive speeding, street racing and stunting offences. We have also increased penalties for impaired driving.

I remind all Newfoundlanders and Labradorians to always practise safe and defensive driving, especially this upcoming Victoria Day weekend.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Windsor - Buchans.

C. TIBBS: Thank you, Speaker, and I thank the hon. minister for an advance copy of her statement as well.

Speaker, I join the minister today in recognizing May as Motorcycle Awareness Month and next week as Canada Road Safety Week.

As we see better weather on the horizon in our province, we also see an increased amount of motorcyclists on our roads enjoying our beautiful province. We wish to remind vehicle drivers and motorists that safe driving and riding practices and co-operation from all road users will help reduce the number of injuries and fatalities on our provincial roadways this summer.

With fair-weather days approaching, we wish all people using our provincial roadways a safe and enjoyable experience. Also, to keep an eye out for our road workers to ensure they go home safe to their families at the end of the day.

Thank you, Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

J. BROWN: Thank you, Speaker, and I thank the minister for an advance copy of her statement.

We, too, call upon people to be aware of walkers and cyclists, drive sober, put away your cellphone because I too see it way too often on our roadways: distracted drivers.

For enforcement to be effective there needs to be resources available for enforcement officers. We encourage this government to ensure that highway enforcement is adequate, staffed to keep our roads safe and keep all the people, pedestrians and drivers alike, safe.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: Are there any further statements by ministers?

Oral Questions.

Oral Questions

SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

D. BRAZIL: Speaker, we're 35 days into the crab fishery standoff and the Premier is nowhere to be found. Harvesters and plant workers are at the forefront but family-owned businesses, like trucking companies and corner stores, will be next to feel the pinch of the deadlock.

I ask the Premier: How will businesses who rely on the spinoffs from this industry survive?

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries, Forestry and Agriculture.

D. BRAGG: Thank you, Speaker.

Great questions. It's very unfortunate that the fishery is not up and going this time of the year. Unusual dispute between wages and people willing to go fishing is what we're dealing with right now. It's my understanding both parties are dealing and talking as we speak. I don't even want to guess and say how close we are. I'm just hoping soon we come to a resolution.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

D. BRAZIL: Thank you, Speaker.

I know the Official Opposition and the people of this province would like to see the Premier directly involved here to move this along as quickly as possible.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

D. BRAZIL: Speaker, the impacts of the deadlock is already being felt. Trucking companies are issuing layoff notices, workers are scrambling for options and there is silence from the Premier.

Premier, what are you going to do to get this industry moving?

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries, Forestry and Agriculture.

D. BRAGG: Thank you, again.

And, again, Speaker, I assure the people of this province, the people in our fishery, we are involved. We're doing our part. The Premier is being involved. Minister Davis is involved. I am involved myself.

We want to see this standstill come to an end. We want to get people back on the water. We want to get people in trucks. We want to get people in fish plants. We want people making ice. We want people offloading, loading, you name it. We want to get our industry open, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you very much.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: Just a reminder not to use names, use the titles of ministers.

Thank you.

The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

D. BRAZIL: Thank you, Speaker.

We all want things to happen in this industry but somebody has to take the lead, and it's the Premier's responsibility as the Premier of this province to take the lead and get this moving, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

D. BRAZIL: Speaker, snow crab fishery impacts all of us. It impacts the small stores, those on production lines and the people in every single corner of our province. It's time to get both sides talking so people can get back to work.

Why does the Premier believe he's needed more in Europe there than during the largest crisis facing our fishing industry since the Moratorium?

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries, Forestry and Agriculture.

So we need a solution. We need our fishery opened. We don't need the Opposition picking any more holes into this. If they have some great, plausible reasons and ways to solve this, bring it forward. Help out the FFAW.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The minister's time has expired.

The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

D. BRAZIL: Thank you, Speaker.

I guarantee you the Opposition are not picking holes in negotiations here, what we're saying, their leadership has to be shown here to broker a deal. The former Liberal premier took the leadership here and brokered a deal to make sure the last time there was crisis in the fishery, why can't this Premier do the same thing here?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

D. BRAZIL: Speaker, during the cyberattack, the Premier wasn't around. As Fiona approached, the Premier wasn't around. As the fishery crisis comes to a crisis again, the Premier isn't around.

When is this Premier going to stand up for the fishing industry here and broker a deal that works for the people of Newfoundland and Labrador?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Deputy Premier.

S. COADY: Thank you very much.

I thank the Member opposite for the question, because it gives me an opportunity to allow me and my colleagues in this House of Assembly to recognize the Premier for the roles that he has taken on Fiona, the role that he has taken in the fisheries.

The Member opposite is fully aware that the Minister of Fisheries, the Minister of Labour and the Premier were heavily engaged last week. I can assure the people of the province that he continues to be engaged. He is in Europe, yes, Speaker, at the World Hydrogen Summit because we're –

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

SPEAKER: Order, please!

S. COADY: – growing and diversifying our economy in Newfoundland and Labrador. But allow me to again say to the people of the province, the strong leadership of the Premier is very much engaged in the fishery.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

D. BRAZIL: Well, Mr. Speaker, the way it works from our perspective, you prioritize what your immediate things should be done. The priority here should be the fishing industry and this is where the Premier should be here dealing with this initiative right now and this crisis, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

SPEAKER: Order, please!

D. BRAZIL: Both Suncor and Cenovus have now removed production from the Terra Nova platform from their 2023 projections. This is confirmation that the Terra Nova won't return to production this year.

Has the Premier asked their project partners when the Terra Nova will pump oil again?

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture, Arts and Recreation.

S. CROCKER: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I thank the hon. Member for the question; it's a very important question. As we know last evening, I think the partners did remove the oil production from their forecast for this year. Obviously, the Department of IET is looking further into this, Mr. Speaker.

We made a substantial investment into this project during COVID when the project actually was practically doomed, Mr. Speaker, we came on board, and I think this entire House supported that decision of the time. It's very important that it gets back to work, but it's also important to note that there is work currently happening in Terra Nova on this. We look forward to it getting back out there, but the reality is also that the oil is in the ground and it will be pumped.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Official Opposition.

D. BRAZIL: Thank you, Speaker.

I know this side of the House stood with the workers in Newfoundland and Labrador asking the government not to let the Terra Nova go to Europe to be done because they knew what was going to happen. It was going to slow down production and there was going to have to be more money spent to put it back into production, Mr. Speaker. They didn't take our advice or the people of Newfoundland and Labrador's advice.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

D. BRAZIL: Suncor told its investors the vessel needs more maintenance before pumping can resume.

Is the Terra Nova going to follow the Premier to Europe again?

SPEAKER: The hon. the Deputy Premier.

S. COADY: Speaker, allow me to say that there are 742 people working in this province on the Terra Nova Project as of the end of December 2022, so there is a lot of work happening on the Terra Nova Project. We are very pleased to have the Terra Nova Project continuing; it is the efforts of the minister and the efforts of the Premier that allowed the Terra Nova Project to continue.

I will say to you, Speaker, that this project has now been extended by 10 years; it will not have a fiscal impact in Newfoundland and Labrador's budgetary processes this year because a minimal amount was budgeted this year in our budget for the Terra Nova. There will be no major impact, but I will say to the people of the province that there is a huge impact because there are 742 people in this province working on the Terra Nova.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

B. PETTEN: Thank you, Speaker.

Speaker, Memorial University continues to make headlines for all the wrong reasons. Now the senate has voted, to the shock of the province and I think to us Opposition and especially to me, to continue not singing the “Ode to Newfoundland.”

Speaker, is government going to intervene?

AN HON. MEMBER: When sun rays –

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture, Arts and Recreation.

S. CROCKER: Mr. Speaker, I would join in the chorus but I can't sing.

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. Member opposite for this question today. Quite frankly, I believe it was that hon. Member that brought forward a resolution last year, I think in November, quite frankly that – at that time I was sitting as Government House Leader – and I borrowed the Member's motion that day that we could unanimously vote in this House for you, Mr. Speaker, to write a letter to Memorial University and I'll conclude with the

BE IT RESOLVED and I hope I get another question.

Mr. Speaker, that day the House urged, “Memorial University to include the 'Ode to Newfoundland' and the 'Ode to Labrador' in all future convocation ceremonies, so that Newfoundland and Labrador's one great university will properly honour the people, the legacy, the beauty, the potential and the fallen of Newfoundland and Labrador.”

Mr. Speaker, I am as disappointed as the Member opposite is today.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

B. PETTEN: Thank you, Speaker.

I appreciate the minister's response and I am glad he supports it.

But I guess the question I got, it is out of touch with the majority of this province, and government does have an ability here to step in and make this right.

So I'm asking once again: Will the minister or will the government or will the Premier or Deputy Premier make this an issue? This should not be, Mr. Speaker – this should not be. It's an insult to the people of this province and it needs to stop now.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture, Arts and Recreation.

S. CROCKER: Again, Mr. Speaker, I've been here for nine years and very rarely do myself and the Member for Conception Bay South agree. But I can tell you we agree today, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

S. CROCKER: I spoke to Mr. Bose's office earlier this morning. I brought forward my profound displeasure with the lack of respect, quite frankly, for this House of Assembly, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

S. CROCKER: There are 40 of us here in this House of Assembly, Mr. Speaker, and we sat here last fall and unanimously agreed that the “Ode to Newfoundland” and the “Ode to Labrador” should be played at our university. We're elected by the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, and, Mr. Speaker, I think the decision should be reversed and we will continue to bring that message forward to Memorial University.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

B. PETTEN: I thank the minister for that response and we'll stay tuned. We certainly hope that that decision is reversed because it's wrong. I will be there May 31 and I may stand up and sing it. I'm not much of a singer, but I may get up and sing it on my own.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

AN HON. MEMBER: Let's do it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: When sun rays crown thy pine clad hills,

And summer spreads her hand,

When silvern voices tune thy rills,

We love thee, smiling land.

We love thee, we love thee,

We love thee, smiling land.

As loved our fathers, so we love,

Where once they stood, we stand;

Their prayer we raise to Heaven above,

God guard thee, Newfoundland

God guard thee, God guard thee,

God guard thee, Newfoundland.

(Applause.)

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Dear land of mountains, woods and snow,

Labrador, our Labrador.

God's noble gift to us below,

Labrador, our Labrador.

Thy proud resources waiting still,

Their splendid task will soon fulfil,

Obedient to thy Maker's will,

Labrador, our Labrador.

(Applause.)

SPEAKER: For the record, I did pause Question Period time for that.

We'll resume Oral Questions.

The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture, Arts and Recreation.

S. CROCKER: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I just want to respond to the Member for CBS just quickly. He said he's going to be there proudly on May 31. I'm going to be there proudly as a parent on June 1, and, quite frankly, don't be surprised if I don't stand up and sing.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

B. PETTEN: It's hard to follow questions after something like that. We actually get along at times, too.

SPEAKER: Keep it going that way, please.

B. PETTEN: It's not all bad, Mr. Speaker, take it.

I ask the minister: Why are children being forced to go to school in such conditions?

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

J. HAGGIE: Thank you very much, Speaker.

Obviously our concern is the well-being of students and staff at the school. We are working with the district on pest control measures. We have active discussions with them and I will be meeting with the NLTA on this tomorrow.

This is an old school and there are problems with intrusion from rodents at this time of the year in a variety of large buildings across this city. It is a problem and we are making sure the school district has sufficient resources to deal with it.

Thank you, Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

B. PETTEN: Thank you, Speaker.

I appreciate the minister's response, but you can't compare this to the Health Sciences, because if this was at the Health Sciences it'd be closed down.

You're dealing with an issue, it's a rodent issue and it's in the walls of an old building. Just look at the prime minister of Canada's residence, they had to come in and shut down and tear the walls out. The place was condemned. I challenge anyone to go up and tear the walls out of that school. I have videos of rats running through heaters, in the walls, teachers are complaining. It's just beyond and I don't want to be talking about this, trust me. I have no time for a rat. I don't, and it's not a comfortable situation, believe you and me, but it's an issue I have to deal with as MHA.

Speaker, rats, mould, overcrowding and lack of ventilation is simply unacceptable. There are 650 children crammed into a 54-year-old building. The NLTA president I spoke to earlier share my concerns. Teachers are questioning whether OHS rules are being violated.

Has the Minister of Digital Government and Service NL opened an investigation into this?

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

J. HAGGIE: Thank you very much, Speaker.

We are convinced there is no mould currently in Frank Roberts Junior High. We are aware of the rodent situation and we are working on it with the school district and the appropriate services and resources to deal with the rodents concerned.

The Member opposite references concerns from the NLTA. Literally, before I walked into the House, was my first communication from the president of the NLTA. I'll be meeting with him tomorrow morning at 9 to discuss it.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Ferryland.

L. O'DRISCOLL: Thank you, Speaker.

The Minister of Transportation is hemming and hawing again on the plans for the fifth provincial water bomber which was damaged way back in 2018. Speaker, first the minister said we didn't need it. Then he said they want to fix it. Then they wanted to sell it. Now they're just not sure.

As the wildfire season picks up, can the minister explain the plan for the fifth water bomber?

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure.

E. LOVELESS: Mr. Speaker, we have four water bombers that are serviced by people that are equipped to do the job on those water bombers, which is a specialty, because I had a greater appreciation for what they do when I visited the facility. I say to the Member opposite, maybe he should visit it as well.

We do have a fifth one. I'm not going to apologize to him or anybody in this province to do due diligence around that fifth asset that we have that's very valuable. Yes, we were looking at selling it. Then the forest fires caused us to pause. That's not irresponsible; that's being responsible.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

E. LOVELESS: We have a fifth unit; I'm doing my due diligence around it. It's very valuable. Also, from an operational perspective, which my colleague will answer in terms of where the water bombers go in terms of the operational piece, we do have an agreement with outside provinces. We share that agreement. We help each other out and that's a good thing.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Ferryland.

L. O'DRISCOLL: That sounds like (inaudible). It took five years to hear it. Speaker, much like the Team Gushue Highway, five years waiting for action.

Speaker, forest fires in Central Newfoundland led to a state of emergency last year and evacuations. It now appears the fifth water bomber will not get off the ground this year.

Do we have enough pilots and crew for our four water bombers that we have here now?

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure.

E. LOVELESS: We have four units that are complemented with staff for those four units, Mr. Speaker. We know there are challenges around, and I say there are challenges around because what they do as pilots with these assets is specialized. I commend them for that because they're doing a good job.

We're equipped; we're ready to go for this season. As we know, climate change is real. We don't know what we're going to face as a province, but we're ready.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Ferryland.

L. O'DRISCOLL: We certainly didn't claim anything about climate change. We know there are forest fires every year.

Speaker, the province has already recorded 48 forest fires this year, compared to three for the same period last year. We see the devastation in Alberta. Four water bombers were not enough last year and we had to call in outside assistance.

What is the minister going to do this year?

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries, Forestry and Agriculture.

D. BRAGG: Thank you, a great question.

People need to be careful. Every one of these forest fires so far has been –

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

SPEAKER: Order, please!

D. BRAGG: – through neglect – absolutely through neglect. For the most part, 90 per cent, grass fires. People start to burn grass and it gets out of control. You need a permit right now. People need to be very cautious in the woods, around their own property this time of year. Grass can light up in an instance. It can rain in the morning, be dry enough in the afternoon to cause enough damage. We've seen it in the Codroy Valley. We've seen in Central. Luckily there's enough rain, snow and fog on this coast –

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

SPEAKER: Order, please!

D. BRAGG: So, Mr. Speaker, yeah, lightning last summer. Well, you're talking about the number of forest fires so far this year, all have been caused by people out either with a burn barrel – the Members don't want to listen; I guess that's the problem why we have as many fires.

SPEAKER: The minister's time has expired.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Topsail - Paradise.

P. DINN: Thank you, Speaker.

Always an opportunity to get up, especially during Nurses' Week, and thank our nurses for all they do.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

P. DINN: Speaker, the minister said that the nursing vacancy rate in this province is increasing but won't admit that this means the problem is getting worse.

Speaker, are increasing nursing vacancies a sign of this government's success?

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I think the 200 RN grads from the Bachelor of Nursing program that have signed on to work with the Provincial Health Authority is a sign of success. I think the mission to India, Mr. Speaker, where we are expecting our first nurses to arrive as early as September, and hopefully hundreds more to follow, is a sign of our success.

Mr. Speaker, the number of people actually working in positions in this province has remained steady over the last five years. That has not lowered. In fact, it has remained steady. The nature of the workforce, with casualization and nurses going to agencies, is what has changed.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Topsail - Paradise.

P. DINN: Thank you, Speaker.

We hear from the Nurses' Union that 750 vacancies exist; 700 minus 200 is still a shortage. I don't know where the math is, but it doesn't sound successful to me.

Recently, Nova Scotia has had success in convincing nurses to switch to full-time. Here in Newfoundland and Labrador, our minister can't answer how many nurses have left the system to switch to casual.

I ask the minister: How can people trust you to fix the problem if you don't know how big the problem is?

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We are fixing the problem. This problem has been years and years in the making. The policy for casualization was put in place about 20 years ago, Mr. Speaker, when we had more nurses than were needed in the province at that time, or more nurses than could get permanent jobs, I should say. So a number of nurses were casual.

The rate of pay that we give nurses – a 20 per cent premium – is the highest in this province than any other province in the country. We have the higher rate of casual nurses in this province than any other province in the country. That is a concern for us, Mr. Speaker, but we are working through it. I know the Minister of Finance is negotiating with the RNU, and we've been working with the college on other initiatives that will help alleviate the situation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Topsail - Paradise.

P. DINN: Thank you, Speaker.

Our nurses, we know, are the lowest paid in the country. The lowest paid in the country. When asked why nurses are leaving the province or switching to casual, the minister simply couldn't answer. I have a simple solution for the minister on this one, Speaker.

Will he instruct the Health Authority to ask nurses why are they leaving or switching to casual, make the responses anonymous and publish the results?

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

T. OSBORNE: Mr. Speaker, we've asked the Health Authority to do exit surveys for all areas where there is a vacancy factor, where there's a problem with vacancy. The Health Authority are endeavouring to start the process of doing exit surveys with individuals that are leaving the high-demand areas, Mr. Speaker, but we have been working with the college, where there are regulations now being worked on back and forth by the college. We are working with the college to make things easier for licensure for nurses in this province. We've already made great headway with the college. They are a great partner, Mr. Speaker. We will find solutions to this problem.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Harbour Main.

H. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER: Yesterday when I asked the minister to fix her inadequate pay equity legislation, the minister said – quote – it's important to hear from all stakeholders, not just one particular group.

Speaker, the Provincial Action Network on the Status of Women, representing every status of women council in our province, called for a rewrite of the legislation. If the minister won't listen to one group, will she listen to 10?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister Responsible for Women and Gender Equality.

P. PARSONS: Thank you, Speaker.

I also thank the hon. Member for keeping this very important topic at the forefront.

Again, I'm happy to say we're the first administration in the history of Newfoundland and Labrador to introduce legislation on pay equity. We know that's happened now in the public sector and we know that our consultations have successfully concluded now to inform regulations of the bill.

We are going to consult with all of our stakeholders to put forth the best legislation that we can. But not only that, Mr. Speaker, we're going further with concrete initiatives to close the gender wage gap because we know pay equity is only one tool in our tool box.

Thank you, Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Harbour Main.

H. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER: On that point of consultation, Speaker, the Provincial Action Network on the Status of Women wrote: Consultations and regulations alone are not enough to address the gaps, and continued – quote – we submit that Bill 3 be redrafted to better serve women and marginalized workers.

Why won't the minister take this advice?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister Responsible for Women and Gender Equality.

P. PARSONS: Thank you, Speaker and thank you, again, to the hon. Member and another opportunity to talk about the wonderful initiatives that we are doing to make change here for women and gender-diverse people here in Newfoundland and Labrador. That's concrete initiatives to help close the gender wage gap.

We can look across the country, we see what works, we see what wage gaps are still in place, and we know that pay equity alone won't solve that or close that gender wage gap. Concrete initiatives will, such as making space at leadership and decision-making and making spaces at those tables, Speaker, and that's what we're doing. Investing in our growing tech sector, in particular, investments in women and gender-diverse and I can go on.

Also access to child care. It's a number of initiatives, Speaker, and that's what it's going to take and that's what this government is going to do.

Thank you, Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Harbour Main.

H. CONWAY OTTENHEIMER: Speaker, the minister continues to fail to listen to the stakeholder groups. The Provincial Action Network on the Status of Women said – quote – our current pay equity and pay transparency legislation is not a piece of progressive legislation that we can all be proud of.

Will the minister do the right thing, listen to these stakeholder groups and let them help rewrite the legislation?

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister Responsible for Women and Gender Equality.

P. PARSONS: Thank you, Speaker.

Again, our consultations have just concluded, and that's only one piece. As we know, introducing pay equity in the public sector and the agencies, as well as pay transparency in both private and public, and we also know that the next phase is to introduce pay equity in the private sector. It's going to take consulting with all stakeholders, including individuals and, of course, the aim of this legislation is not to put anybody out but to put forth the best legislation that we can for the people of the province and, again, those concrete initiatives that are going to help close the gender wage gap.

I invite the Member to come and join the table and sit at the table to be part of the solution, Speaker.

Thank you so much.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Torngat Mountains.

L. EVANS: Thank you, Speaker.

Much singing took place this afternoon in the House of Assembly, but I want to say people in my district would gladly put aside their pride and sing for their supper if it meant being able to feed their children.

The provincial Health Accord is riddled with references to access to nutritional food as a social determinant of health. Yet, many residents in my district can't afford enough food to keep their families from going hungry, let alone being able to fend off illness and disease by being able to purchase nutritional foods, Speaker.

So I ask the Minister of Health: Will he commit his government to reverse their erosion of services to my district, such as the removal of the freight boat, so people are not being harmed by malnutrition in my district, Speaker?

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure.

E. LOVELESS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I think I made that clear the other day that I have had no discussions about returning the freight boat to Lewisporte, so it's a non-issue. I'm not having a discussion. I hope that's clear because she's asked it seven or eight times. The answer is, right now, I'm having no conversation. So I hope I put that to bed right here today.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Torngat Mountains.

L. EVANS: No conversations, but no relief for the high cost of food, let alone nutritional food in my district, Speaker, but erosion of services and policies of this government.

In my district patients do not have timely access to adequate medical care. Patients are often bumped off medical flights so they can't even get to their appointments for cancer, heart disease, diabetes, broken bones, et cetera. Returning home is even much worse because they're no long considered a priority and can be delayed for days and days. This causes great mental and financial hardship on the people, the patients.

Will the Minister of Health commit adequate resources to ensure patients have proper access to medical care in my district?

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Health Accord, which is a 10-year plan, outlines a number of initiatives, Mr. Speaker, including initiatives for Labrador. We have put a number of initiatives in place already through the Health Accord. We'll continue putting initiatives in place, including initiatives for the Labrador region.

The issue of transportation is one of a contract with the provider. I know that contract is coming up soon. I did have a meeting with the Member regarding the transportation issue, the contract for the Labrador area, Mr. Speaker, and that is under review in the department.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

J. BROWN: Thank you, Speaker.

Labrador West still struggles with housing and our only shelter only has three beds. The Housing and Homelessness Coalition asked for funding to expand the shelter and core funding so it could staff it 24-7.

I ask the Minister of CSSD: When will this group get its core funding and the funding to expand so people can find shelter?

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Children, Seniors and Social Development.

J. ABBOTT: Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to respond.

I've had several conversations with the Member for Labrador West around housing and homelessness. We're working with the community and the agency that is overseeing the shelter. We are committed to expanding the shelter services in Labrador West. We will be allocating the money. We just have to finalize the details and I'm hoping that will be much sooner than later.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Mount Pearl - Southlands.

P. LANE: Speaker, I've had a credible source reach out to me to express concerns over the way blind trusts are managed through the Commissioner for Legislative Standards for Members of Cabinet. Not necessarily specific to this administration, but in how it has applied to past administrations as well.

It's been suggested that there's more of an operational trust than a blind trust and does not provide the type of safeguards most appropriate to ensure no conflict of interest exists between ministers' portfolios, knowledge of Cabinet matters and any personal business interest they may have.

To the best of my knowledge, there has been no review of blind trusts and how they are being managed in my 12 years as a Member of this House of Assembly.

I would therefore ask the minister if he would commit to having an independent review of the current procedure for managing a blind trust to ensure they are indeed eliminating the possibility of potential conflicts of interest with a report to come to this Legislature.

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice and Public Safety.

J. HOGAN: Thank you, Speaker, and thank you for the opportunity to answer the question.

This was discussed, I believe, yesterday or today, it's all starting to blend together, but we did talk about blind trusts. The Member talked about blind trusts and I think the answer was provided that the oversight of that is by the Commissioner for Legislative Standards.

The Member also talked about an ethics commissioner so I think it is a great opportunity to advise Members who aren't aware that there is a review of statutory offices being undertaken. I encourage every Member in this House, particularly the Member who has shown interest in this issue before, to make a submission to Judge Fowler, who is in charge of that review, to get your expressions of any issues you may have, any suggestions you may have of how to make this process better. I'm sure he would appreciate it and I'm sure we will appreciate it, too.

Thank you, Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Mount Pearl - Southlands.

P. LANE: Thank you.

I will be making my comments known for sure.

Speaker, this past Monday my colleague for Humber - Bay of Islands recounted a troubling story from when he was minister of Service NL. He was dealing with the very serious matter involving a real estate company and the individual was later convicted of misappropriating funds. The Member indicated that while he was meeting to discuss the matter, the former premier's staff person showed up uninvited to his offices to sit in on the meeting with investigators.

The Member further stated that it was later revealed to him that the premier of the day had a business involvement with the individual in question as it related to the matter at hand. This should raise a big red flag in this House of Assembly as it relates to blind trusts and conflict of interests.

I therefore ask the minister: In addition to conducting a review of blind trusts, will he also commit to a process for the establishment of an ethics commissioner, totally independent of government and this Legislature?

I know the minister said there is a review being –

SPEAKER: The Member's time has expired.

The hon. the Minister of Justice and Public Safety.

J. HOGAN: Thank you, Speaker.

I think you started answering the question for me. So he said he knew what I said before and I will just reiterate it again. There is a review of the statutory offices that is ongoing right now. I encourage the Member and any members of the public as well that are interested in this to make their submissions to Judge Fowler. We look forward to receiving his report in due course.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The time for Question Period has expired.

Presenting Reports by Standing and Select Committees.

Tabling of Documents.

Tabling of Documents

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

S. COADY: Thank you, Speaker.

Pursuant to

section 26(5)(

a) of the Financial Administration Act , I am tabling four orders-in-council relating to funding precommitment for fiscal years 2024-2025 to 2032-2033.

Thank you.

SPEAKER: Any further tabling of documents?

Notices of Motion.

Answers to Questions for which Notice has been Given.

Answers to Questions for which Notice has been Given

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries, Forestry and Agriculture.

D. BRAGG: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Earlier today in Question Period, I reported it twice that the FFAW walked away from negotiations and talks with the ASP. I'd just like to update now and say this is the third time in which talks have broken off within that department. So if anybody has any suggestions from the opposite side, please bring them forward.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Children, Seniors and Social Development.

J. ABBOTT: Yes, Speaker, I have answers to two questions to be tabled.

SPEAKER: Thank you.

Any further answers to questions for which notice has been given?

Petitions.

Petitions

SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Terra Nova.

L. PARROTT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The reasons for this petition are as follows:

The residents of Gambo and Terra Nova are upset that areas 27 and 42 received cuts to their resident moose licence quota while non-resident hunters remain at the same level as previous years.

Residents feel if there are reductions in quotas it should be shared between the residents and non-resident hunters.

Many local residents use moose meat as a primary source of their protein for meat supply and cannot afford the rising cost of beef in local stores and supermarkets.

Mr. Speaker, these quotas were cut this year. Area 42 has been cut down to 56, that's a cut of 50 licences with only 56 licences being issued; 50 cut, 50 being issued. Area 27 is reduced by 50 down to 138, while the non-resident licence has not been touched at all.

Now science has come out, and I'm not disputing science, there is no question, but this is a highly unfair cut in the moose licence for the residents, people who depend on it. I know that the minister is going to stand up and say that I'm against non-resident hunters coming in and all that stuff; not one little bit. But here's the truth of it, when a non-resident hunter comes in, their kill rate is somewhere around 80 per cent. They don't depend on this meat for life. In Newfoundland, moose hunting is a way of life.

Two years ago when COVID happened, there was no moose hunting for non-residents. The moose hunt didn't exist. So the numbers, the science for these statistics came out prior to a year where there was no non-resident hunt.

Mr. Speaker, these residents of Terra Nova in my district and Gambo in the District of Gander, these people are asking for simply one