Manitoba Hansard — 26 April 2022 (Sitting 42B, 42nd Legislature, 4th Session)

42-4-42b

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Fourth Session – Forty-Second Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Myrna Driedger Speaker Vol. LXXVI No. 42B - 1:30 p.m., Tuesday, April 26, 2022 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Forty-Second Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALTOMARE, Nello Transcona NDP ASAGWARA, Uzoma Union Station NDP BRAR, Diljeet Burrows NDP BUSHIE, Ian Keewatinook NDP CLARKE, Eileen, Hon. Agassiz PC COX, Cathy Kildonan-River East PC CULLEN, Cliff, Hon. Spruce Woods PC DRIEDGER, Myrna, Hon. Roblin PC EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne, Hon. Lac du Bonnet PC FIELDING, Scott, Hon. Kirkfield Park PC FONTAINE, Nahanni St. Johns NDP FRIESEN, Cameron, Hon. Morden-Winkler PC GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GOERTZEN, Kelvin, Hon. Steinbach PC GORDON, Audrey, Hon.

Southdale PC GUENTER, Josh Borderland PC GUILLEMARD, Sarah, Hon. Fort Richmond PC HELWER, Reg, Hon. Brandon West PC ISLEIFSON, Len Brandon East PC JOHNSON, Derek, Hon. Interlake-Gimli PC JOHNSTON, Scott, Hon. Assiniboia PC KHAN, Obby Fort Whyte PC KINEW, Wab Fort Rouge NDP LAGASSÉ, Bob Dawson Trail PC LAGIMODIERE, Alan, Hon. Selkirk PC LAMONT, Dougald St. Boniface Lib. LAMOUREUX, Cindy Tyndall Park Lib.

LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas-Kameesak NDP LINDSEY, Tom Flin Flon NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Malaya Notre Dame NDP MARTIN, Shannon McPhillips PC MICHALESKI, Brad Dauphin PC MICKLEFIELD, Andrew Rossmere PC MORLEY-LECOMTE, Janice Seine River PC MOSES, Jamie St. Vital NDP NAYLOR, Lisa Wolseley NDP NESBITT, Greg Riding Mountain PC PEDERSEN, Blaine Midland PC PIWNIUK, Doyle, Hon. Turtle Mountain PC REYES, Jon, Hon. Waverley PC SALA, Adrien St. James NDP SANDHU, Mintu The Maples NDP SCHULER, Ron Springfield-Ritchot PC SMITH, Andrew, Hon.

Lagimodière PC SMITH, Bernadette Point Douglas NDP SMOOK, Dennis La Vérendrye PC SQUIRES, Rochelle, Hon. Riel PC STEFANSON, Heather, Hon. Tuxedo PC TEITSMA, James Radisson PC WASYLIW, Mark Fort Garry NDP WHARTON, Jeff, Hon. Red River North PC WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WISHART, Ian Portage la Prairie PC WOWCHUK, Rick Swan River PC Vacant Thompson

1599 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Tuesday, April 26, 2022 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Madam Speaker: Good afternoon, everybody. Please be seated. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 234–The Drug-Related Death Bereavement Day Act Mrs. Bernadette Smith (Point Douglas): I move, seconded by the member from The Pas -Kameesak, that Bill 234, The Drug- Related Death Bereavement Day Act, now be read a first time. Motion presented. Mrs.

Smith: I am pleased to present Bill 234, The Drug-Related Death Bereavement Day Act, as more and more Manitobans are touched by addictions and more and more families are left to grieve the loss of a loved one, but the exper ience of grieving an over death is viled in guilt, shame, stigma and discomfort. Bill 234 seeks t o normalize the ex perience of grief and proclaim the Sunday before Mother's Day of every year as drug-related bereavement day, a day to reflect on the impacts of drugs in Manitoba and to grieve. I look forward to unanimous support of this bill in this House.

Madam Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? [Agreed] Bill 225–The Non-Disclosure Agreements Act Mr. Dougald Lamont (St. Boniface): I move that Bill 225–[interjection]–oh, sorry. I move, seconded by the member of Tyndall Park, that Bill 225, The Non- Disclosure Agreements Act;

Loi sur les accords de confidentialité, be now read a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Lamont: Non-disclosure agreements, NDAs, in Manitoba and indeed around the world have been used to silence survivors of sexual harassment, intimidation and misconduct in many instances. Manitoba Liberals have heard from many folks in the com munity who have been harmed because of being pressured into signing an NDA. The legislation requires that an NDA can only be enforceful if it is the expressed wish and desire of the complainant.

They must also have had an opportunity to get in dependent legal advice before they proceed with one. People who have signed NDAs may struggle because they cannot s peak with family, friends or counsellors. When they can go to the police, they may be afraid to. We want to ensure that anybody who needs to is free to speak up. We look forward to the support of all members towards Bill 225. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? [Agreed] Committee reports? TABLING OF REPORTS Hon.

Audrey Gordon (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, I am pleased to table the sup plement to the Estimates of expenditure for the Department of Health for the fiscal year 2022-2023. Thank you. Hon. Andrew Smith (Minister of Sport, Culture and Heritage): Madam Speaker, I am pleased to table the supple ment of Estimates of expenditure for the Department of Sport, Cult ure and Heritage for the financial year 2022-2023.

MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS Madam Speaker: The honour able Minister of Indigenous Reconciliation and Northern Relations – and I would indicate that the required 90 minutes notice prior to routine proceedings w as provided in accordance with rule 26(2). Would the honour able minister please proceed with his statement. Chief Dennis Meeches Hon. Alan Lagimodiere (Minister of Indigenous Reconciliation and Northern Relations): It is my distinct honour to rise in the House today and thank and celebrate the now-former chief of Long Plain First Nation, Dennis Meeches.

1600 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 26, 2022 Chief Meeches served Long Plain First Nation for 26 years, with almost 20 years serving as an elected chief, and was the longest serving elected chief in Manitoba. He is also a talented singer, using his voice during ceremonies and events in tandem with his drumming. His community is also well known for its talent and events.

Long 'plais' First Nation hosts their annual powwow to celebrate their cu lture and traditions which began in 1876 and is Manitoba's longest running powwow with exciting events such as the Men's Midnight Fancy Dance and a showcase of the bands many talented dancers and singers. I myself have had the pleasure of hearing Chief Mee ches sing on several occasions. Retired Chief Meeches has served as the chair - person of the Treaty 1 governing council, the First Nations Finance Authority and the Dakota Ojibway Tribal Council.

He still serves on the Tribal Council Investment Group of Ma nitoba and the Spirit Healthcare Group of companies. In his career he has actioned incredible things, including work that is being accomplished in the planning of the former Kapyong Barracks, now set to become Naawi-Oodena. It is a historic, billion -dollar Indigenous development. Naawi-Oodena is translated as the centre of the heart and community and it will be an urban reserve right here in Winnipeg.

During his tenure and beyond, he tirelessly worked to create jobs and other opportunities for many Treaty 1 First Nations and advocated fiercely for economic development of Indigenous com mun- ities. Naawi- Oodena is a shining example of this work, and it's very indicative of how hard Chief Meeches worked for his community and all Treaty 1 citizens. Madam Speaker, he was always someone who valued collaboration and partnership in everything we worked on together. Trust me when I say that we have exchanged many late -night phone calls working together on important actions.

Never critical, always collaborative, Dennis is a fierce advocate for recon - ciliation, and I am so pleased to have been able to work closely with him on many aspects of this portfolio. My colleagues and I look forward to continuing to implement these lessons of collaboration, partnership and engagement in walking this path to reconciliation. While Dennis tells me he is going to retire to his Paint Horse Ranch, we all know that people like him do not simply retire, so I am certain our paths will con- tinue to cross.

I will greatly miss our many texts, phone calls and emails, but knowing you, Dennis, I'm sure those won't stop as you take on future projects. Dennis, thank you for your commitment, your passion and your hard work to build a better world for all members of your community, all Treaty 1 citizens and all Manitobans. I am incredibly grateful to have had the opportunity to work closely with you and build a friendship. I greatly admire all that you have accomplished, and I would like to extend my sincere congratulations and best wishes to y ou, your com - munity and your future endeavors. Miigwech. Philamayaye.

Thank you. I would like to encourage all members to join me in acknowledging and celebrating retiring Chief Meeches. Mr. Ian Bushie (Keewatinook): It gives me great honour to share a few words with a great leader–about a great leader and my friend, Chief Dennis Meeches. Madam Speaker, it's been said that great leaders know when to step aside, and Dennis Meeches is noth- ing if not a great leader.

After two decades as chief of Long Plain First Nation, Dennis leaves behind a myr- iad of accomplishments, most notably his success ful efforts to secure the former Kapyong Barracks for an urban reserve, but also an urban reserve in Portage la Prairie, a number of economic development proje cts for First Nations here in Manitoba and a residential school museum built on the site of a former residential school here in western Manitoba.

I had the privilege of serving as chief of my own community at the same time as Dennis, and can speak first-hand to his dedication and commitment to not only to Long Plain First Nation but also to all Indigenous peoples and communities on Treaty 1 First Nations, as well as all of Manitoba. I have many memories of his grass dancing and his singing under his stage name, Yoza, even as he served ably as chief. As one of the longest serving chiefs in Manitoba, Dennis in many ways laid the groundwork for the reconciliation movement that we're experiencing today in this province.

And during a period in which men often dominated the political landscape in Manitoba, Dennis was known to be incredibly re - spectful to Indigenous women and would use his

April 26, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1601 platform and privilege to amplify the voices of others, including mentoring the current chief of Long Plan First Nation. Of course, although Dennis is no longer seeking re-election, those who know him will know he will never truly retire. He plans to run for council of the Long Plain First Nation to focus on drug prevention and economic development. But I hope he takes at least some time to spend with his family and his horses. On behalf of the Manitoba NDP, I salute Dennis on 20 years of service, and look forward to working with him through many more to come.

I was honoured to have the opportunity to meet last summer with four generations of Dennis's family, including his father, son and grandson. And I have no doubt that I was in presence of past, present and future leadership. And I hate to be the bearer of bad news, Dennis, but if you think you are retired, you have another thing coming. Your work, dedi cation, knowledge will be called upon for generations. * (13:40) So again, Dennis, on behalf of our NDP team, myself and my family, I say kitchi miigwech for sharing your gifts and knowledge with all of us. Mr. Dougald Lamont (St.

Boniface): I ask for leave to speak to the ministerial statement. Madam Speaker: Does the member have leave to respond to the ministerial statement? [Agreed] Mr. Lamont: I rise to pay tribute to the many years of service by Chief Dennis Me eches of Long Plain First Nation.

Now, while we now make –at long last, make treaty acknowledgments in this Chamber, and at events across Manitoba and Canada, it is also worth recalling the ways in which the Crown has failed to uphold their end of the obligation of treaties, and how hard First Nations and other Indigenous peoples have had to fight just to get governments–federal and prov- incial–to fulfill commitments made in treaties that were legally binding contracts. One of the people who were in charge of that fighting was, of course, Mr. Meeches.

Many of those promises include what are known as treaty land entitlements, where First Nations in Manitoba have been waiting for decades, and some- times for more than a century, for land to be returned to them that was promised them. In pursuing these claims with tenacity and prin- ciple, Chief Meeches has made incredible strides on behalf of his community and many others. We've seen Kapyong Barracks rightly be signed over, in what will be known as Naawi-Oodena. We have seen long over- due investments in urban reserves in Winnipeg and Portage la Prairie.

You know, it is never too late to make progress, and I want to thank Chief Meeches on behalf of Manitoba Liberal MLAs for his contributions, not just to Long Plain for Treaty 1, but to his dedication to working in partnership in ways that make us all better, and make us all better off. I would also like to offer the congratulations to the newly elected chief, Kyra Wilson, who ran as a Manitoba Liberal candidate in the 2016 election, and I look forward to many more years of his contribu - tions. Thank you. Merci. Miigwech. Madam Speaker: Further ministerial statements?

The honourable Minister of Transpor tation and Infrastructure–and I would indicate that the required 90 minutes notice prior to routine proceedings was provided in accordance with rule 26(2). Would the honour able minister please proceed with his statement. Severe Weather Event Update Hon. Doyle Piwniuk (Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure): Madam Speaker, Manitoba continues to battle the effects of a significant weather event this past weekend. However, our flood risk re - mains constant and our moderate to major flood levels.

Some major roadways remain closed due to localized overland flooding, as well as two municipal- ities remain in state of local emergencies, being that the RM of Headingley and the RM of Cartier. Our government, in collaboration with local gov- ernments, First Nation communities and our EMO, will continue to provide mitigation and recovery efforts. Maintaining the safety of Manitobans is our top priority. Our Manitoba Emergency Coordination Centre will continue to host daily conference calls with var - ious levels of governments and communities. In addi- tion to the public outreach efforts, my office has

1602 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 26, 2022 co-ordinated with non- political, technical flooding briefings, meeting this –later this week with the official opposition and the Liberal Party. The morning I had the opportunity to speak to Scott Crick, the mayor of the town of Morris, to discuss flood pre parationness and communication strategies. The Red River Floodway and the Portage Diversion continues to operate, managing the water levels for the City of Winnipeg to approximately 13 feet.

Provincial crews are deployed to a number of communities in the Red River Valley running pump- ing stations as well as preparing for and implementing partial dike closures, such as the in Brunkild dike on P-H 3, and full dike closures, such as the St. Adolphe at PR 200. Crews have deployed 24,000 sandbags and sand- bagging machine and two standard emergency re - sponse trailers to the town of Altona for regional use. In the town of Ste. Anne, 2,000 sandbags have been delivered. Pumping operations have begun at the intersection of two-oh–PR 204 Henderson Highway at the North Perimeter.

Along with the RCMP and the Transportation and Infrastructure provincial staff will also implement highway closures as required. Please remember to 'aphere' to highway closures, as saf ety is our top priority. My colleagues and I are proud that –to call Manitoba home, and we are –will continue to protect our communities through mitigation efforts for severe weather events at all costs. Manitobans, let's live up to our reputation and continue to be very friendly, 'residulent' and Prairie province that Canadians know of us to be. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Mr.

Matt Wiebe (Concordia): Madam Speaker, I want to thank the minister for updating the House on the unfolding flooding situation. I also want to once again thank all those prov - incial, municipal and Hydro employees who are work- ing around the clock on the front lines to protect our communities. Manitobans continue to struggle as those crews work to restore power to 3,700 customers in Dauphin and homeowners in many com munities continue to check their basement for water damage.

Likewise, crews are addressing overland flooding across the pro- vince, including those who are working to keep Highway 75 open as long as possible. In pla ces like Morden and Winkler, crews have been aided by con- cerned citizens and producers from the area, who are using their own equipment to clear culverts and pump water over roads. In areas which the immediate threats have been addressed, municipalities are now turning to the work of repairing the damage that has been done.

The RM of Stanley released a statement yesterday that while the water has receded, the rural community infra - structure has been devastated, adding that it will take considerable time to bring everything back to normal. We urge the government to continue to providing assistance to Stanley and other municipalities as they begin this work. We also know that the danger has not yet passed. In fact, right now there is rain scheduled for 10 of the 12 days beginning this Thursday.

We urge Manitobans to continue monitoring their basements and this government to continue to provide support with–to residents with emergency housing issues and those seeking to prevent further flooding on their properties. As we did yesterday, I join with the rest of this House in continuing to commend all those working to restore power across our province and to protect Manitobans from flooding. Our caucus promises to keep listening to the concerns of local gov ernments and, in parti cular, those rural municipalities as they begin to rebuild after the damage caused by this weather system. Hon.

Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Madam Speaker, I ask leave to speak to the minister's statement. Madam Speaker: Does the member have leave to respond to the ministerial statement? [Agreed] Mr. Gerrard: Madam Speaker, the sun is out today, which is a good thing after several days of wet and snowy weather. With today's clear skies, we're in a better position to have a look at what's happened, to assess the damage and to plan for the days ahead.

I had hoped that the gov ernment would've pro - vided the best and worst projections of the likelihood of flooding in the next two weeks, with many days of projected rain ahead. We need to be prepared for what could be the worst and make sure that people are ready.

April 26, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1603 I'd hoped for a more detailed accounting of what's happened with the hydro outages. I gather from the Hydro website today that there's still more than 3,000 people who are out of hydro service, and hope that that can be restored soon. We don't really know how many basements have been flooded. That could have been helpful. But, cer- tainly, in view of the serious problems of basement flooding in part of Manitoba, I would ask the govern- ment to look at restoring the basement flooding protection program, which has been so important and useful in the past.

I want to thank all those who are helping to address issues which have arisen from the flooding and the weather that we' ve received in the last few days, and to thank them sincerely for all that they're doing. It takes a province when we've got a weather storm like this. Thank you, Madam Speaker. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Anne Penonzek Mrs. Cathy Cox (Kildonan-River East): Volunteers are the heart and pulse of our Manitoba communities.

Madam Speaker, as we celebrate National Volunteer Week, I am honoured to rise in the House today to shine a spotlight on one of North Kildonan's most dedicated and invaluable volunteers, who is joining us this afternoon in the gallery. Anne Penonzek epitomizes the meaning of volunteerism. Anne is a remarkable woman who has served our St. Anne Ukrainian Catholic Church for over 61 years. She's been described as God's gift to the church. And w hile Anne is a women small in stature, her contributions, guidance and leadership in our community is immeasurable. I am privileged to call Anne my friend.

She is sincere, humble and always warms my heart with her kindness and beautiful smile. * (13:50) Madam Speaker, Anne's accomplishments are many. She has served on the St. Anne Ukrainian Catholic Women's League for 60 years, and as the president for two terms and also as the treasurer. She's guided the Kildonan seniors horizon club during her time as president and is highly respected as a role model and mentor within our com munity who has dedicated her life to helping others. She's pinched thousands of perogies, baked too many pies and cakes to count and prepared hundreds of meals at our church dinners.

Prior to COVID, Anne served as a volunteer at Concordia community hospital where she not only provided love and support to patients but also administered the Holy Sacrament to patients and housebound parishioners. While COVID presented many challenges for St. Anne parish, Anne's deter - mination shone through when she took on the re - sponsibility of ensuring COVID-19 protocols were in place so parishioners could safely participate in the liturgy.

To quote Father Mark, Anne works tirelessly to raise funds, collect food and furniture and prepare for newcomers arriving here in Canada to escape the brutal war in Ukraine. At 88 years old, Anne's dedication is a credit to the community and a great ex- ample of what can be accomplished by being involved in the church, the local community and following a moral creed to love one another. Madam Speaker, I ask all members of this Chamber to rise to wish Anne a happy belated 88th birthday and continued happiness, good love, good health, love and God's blessing.

Mnohaya lita. [Many more years.] Madam Speaker: The honour able member for St. Johns (Ms. Fontaine)–oh. Early Childhood Educators in Union Station MLA Uzoma Asagwara (Union Station): I'm honoured to rise today during early childhood educa- tor week to recognize the ECEs in Union Station and to thank them for their ongoing efforts to educate and care for children and families in our community. Early childhood educators have navigated enor - mous challenges during this pandemic and continue to show us how invaluable they are to our communities.

Each and every time I visit a centre, I'm greeted with kindness, smiles and very happy and cute kids who are eager for me to read them a story, or to share their own stories with me. In Union Station, daycares have bee n facing increased challenges due to the lack of funding and no strategy from this government to ensure that we can retain and recruit early childhood educators. This despite the federal government providing hundreds of millions of dollars for this sector, Madam Speaker.

Recently, I wrote the minister to alert him of dif- ficult circumstances faced by the Niigaanaki Day Care Centre in Union Station. This centre, in addition to

1604 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 26, 2022 flooding for which they've had limited support in rectifying, has experienced mul tiple break -ins, in - cluding one while the centre was open and a staff member was attacked with a weapon. Thankfully, no one was physically injured, but they have yet to hear from the minister as to what steps he and his government are taking to provide t he necessary support that they need and that so many other centres do.

Early childhood educators need, want and deserve action to be taken by this gov ernment, action which respects their training, education and their expertise as they care for our children and our future generations, Madam Speaker. Today we're joined by the executive director of Niigaanaki Day Care centre, Lois Coward, and educator Kaitlin Fitzmaurice. Please join me in recognizing them and all Union Station early childhood educator s for their deeply appreciated artwork. Thank you. Gimli New Horizons 55+ Centre Hon.

Derek Johnson (Minister of Agriculture): Madam Speaker, I rise today, to recognize the Gimli New Horizons 55+ Centre. The centre was in- corporated as a non-profit organization in 1974. From humble beginnings, their membership has grown to 700 community members since. Their mission statement says, and I quote: The centre will be an asset to the community by providing a pleasant place for recreation, relaxation and com - panionship and by encouraging all members to remain active and socially connected while maintaining their physical and mental health.

Gimli New Horizons staff, board of directors and volunteers have gone above and beyond to fulfill this statement. By 2019, an amazing 11,250 volunteer hours had offered for 40 different activities. The activities are many and diverse, from painting and photography, tai chi, canasta, fibre arts, woodcarving, ballroom dancing and even kayaking, Madam Speaker. Every year members come forward with novel ideas and new enthusiasm and volunteer to try something new. Hearing clinics are held four times a month, while flu clinics are held annually. The organization also puts together trips for special activities.

They operate a commercial kitchen on-site staffed entirely by volunteers to provide members an oppor - tunity to have a hot and wholesome $6 lunch. The kitchen is utilized for some of their major fundraising events such as a pancake breakfast during the Icelandic Festival, f all supper and ongoing monthly perogy making. Madam Speaker, it is with pride and pleasure that I applaud the Gimli New Horizons 55+ Centre for the integral role they play in the community and sur - rounding area. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Sexual Assault Awareness Month Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St.

Johns): We near April's Sexual Assault Awareness Month. Sexual assault and sexual harassment includes rape, unwanted sexual conduct, sexual innuendos, jokes, threats, arranging opportunities to be alone. It can occur between partners and families at home, col- leagues at work, on the bus, in the club, walking down the street, online, between friends, acquaintances and strangers. In Canada, more than 60 per cent of Indigenous women have been sexually assaulted.

Reflecting on that statistic, it's important to acknowledge that for several years Indigenous women have courageously come forward sharing experiences of sexual harassment by a leader in our Indigenous community. They weren't believed. I believe them and continue to believe them. Often, complaints against predators are dismissed or minimized, with predators allowed to remain in their roles. This particular individual was supported and given the benefit of the doubt, allowed to return back to his leadership role.

Last month, another courageous Indigenous wo- man came forward, filing complaints to the WPS and human resources. I believe her. She is an immediate family member. It kills me to see her navigate this, but I am so proud of her coming forward in an attempt to protect other Indigenous women. These experiences are not solely confined to just this one individual, but to many men in our com mu- nities. But to be clear, overall–no matter the com mu- nity–the majority of sexual assault offenders are men. This is a men's issue. Men of all backgrounds must stop this.

April 26, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1605 I know our women will not be silenced or shamed or put up with abuse. My deepest respect and love to every single woman who's come forward or yet to come forward. Please know that there's a community of matriarchs standing with you. Miigwech. David Barber Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Madam Speaker, growing up in Dauphin and helping build the Fort Dauphin Museum, fishing at a cabin on Waterhen Lake and canoeing to Fort York and Churchill, David Barber developed a love of the Arctic and became one of the foremost Arctic scientists in the world.

He had an ability to connect with people who were not scien- tists and an ability to write grants and to conceive big projects that was remarkable. Several years into his Arctic research, he recog - nized an extraordinary decrease in the size of the permanent ice in the Arctic, and it was the result of global warming. He found that the Arctic was warm- ing faster than other parts of the planet. He was at the forefront of understanding the impact of climate change on the Arctic. He also organized and led Arctic expeditions to give us a broader understanding of life in the Arctic both above and below the ice.

Educated initially in physical education at the University of Manitoba, after travelling to the Arctic, he switched careers and studied the Arctic and Arctic ice at the University of Waterloo. He later returned to Manitoba to champion changes at the university which led to bringing together a wide range of re - searchers to study what was and is happening in the Arctic.

Over the course of his career, he was responsible for bringing about $200 million in grants to the University of Manitoba –the largest amount brought by any researcher in the physical sciences. * (14:00) An extraordinary individual; not only a scientist, he was dedicated to his family and to ensuring each of his children had their own experiences on an Arctic expedition starting when they were nine years old. Lucette, Jeremy, Julien and Jamie were a vital part of his life, and they of his. It was a family partnership.

I ask for a moment of silence to recognize this important Manitoban who brought so much to our province and to our world. Madam Speaker: Is there a leave for a moment of silence? [Agreed] Please stand. A moment of silence was observed. ORAL QUESTIONS Infrastructure Spending Funding for Road Repairs Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): Potholes, potholes, potholes, Madam Speaker. People all over Man itoba are talking about it. Everyone is noticing. There are potholes all over the place right now, and it seems like they're worse than ever.

Now, I hope that Manitobans also keep in mind the PCs' respon sibility for this. We know that they have underspent infra structure ever since that –they took office, and they've frozen funding for munici - palities. At the end of the day, it's costing you more because there's a PC government in power. Will the Premier reverse course and provide more money to fix roads and potholes that are killing us right now? Hon.

Heather Stefanson (Premier): Well, this coming from an NDP government, when they were in power, that underspent the budget several years in a row and then, right before an election, they came up with millions and millions and millions of dollars, Madam Speaker. We have given predictability when it comes to infrastructure in Manitoba. We've given a three- year plan of $500 million a year. We're working closely with those in the heavy construction and so on, Madam Speaker. We'll continue to work with munici- palities.

Of course, the member opposite knows that pot - holes–when it comes to the cities and munici palities, it falls under the municipalities, but we'll continue to work with those municipalities. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Kinew: Madam Speaker, making sure that roads don't have car-sized potholes in them is a basic func - tion of government, yet it's a basic function that this government is failing at. We know that municipalities have a role to play here, the City has a role to play here, but they can't do it alone.

1606 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 26, 2022 There's no way that they can do it with the PC cuts to infrastructure spending that happen every year after they announce a budget. They run back to the Ministry of Finance, the Minis try of Infra structure, and they reduce the amount of money that'll actually get spent on roads. And then, on top of that, they freeze the transfers to municipalities. Manitobans are paying more than ever. They're paying with stress. They're paying with dollars for car repairs. The one person in Manitoba who's not stepping up right now: the Premier.

Will she reverse course and will the PCs start to fund road repairs so we can fix these potholes? Mrs. Stefanson: Well, the member opposite will know that we inherited a significant infrastructure de- ficit from the previous NDP gov ernment, Madam Speaker, and we will continue to clean up the mess of the previous NDP government. But the member opposite will also know that we– yes, we absolutely do fund and work with our munici- palities. But the munici palities are respon sible for where that money is spent, Madam Speaker.

We do not dictate to munici palities how to sp end their money. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mrs. Stefanson: They know best where that money goes as the local gov ernment for the area, Madam Speaker. Now, we will continue–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mrs. Stefanson: –to invest reco rd invest ments in infrastructure throughout Manitoba, Madam Speaker– $500 million a year for the next three years. We're giving predictability for those industries. We will continue to work with munici palities.

We'll continue to work with all those in volved in infrastructure, Madam Speaker, to ensure that we fix our roads for Manitobans. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr. Kinew: Madam Speaker, the PC Premier con - tinues to deny responsi bility for the terrible state of our roads and, just like Brian Pallister, wants to pick fights with municipalities and with the city. We know what they've done with their time in office. Every single year, they've underspent the infra- structure budget. Eve ry single year, they've frozen funding to municipalities.

Imagine the cumulative impact of inflation since 2016. Now add to that the increasing weather events and it's no wonder Manitobans out there are paying more: paying more to repair your cars, pay ing more because you're getting bad gas mileage, and paying more in the form of stress because roads decay under the PCs. Will they simply reverse course and start to invest in roads so that we can fix these potholes? [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mrs.

Stefanson: I'll remind the member opposite again about the infra structure deficit that was left to our government by his government, the previous NDP government, Madam Speaker. Billions and billions and billions in deficit in our infrastructure throughout Manitoba, and there was nothing there for predictability for the future in terms of spending, Madam Speaker. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mrs.

Stefanson: We know, under the previous NDP government, is that they underspent their budget several years in a low–a row, and then right before an election, they mysteriously came up with all this money for infrastructure, Madam Speaker. We won't do that. We'll work with our munici - palities. We'll work those who deliver these servic es for Manitobans to ensure they have the predictability for the next three years. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: The honour able Leader of the Official Opposition, on a new question. St. Boniface Hospital ER Services Mr.

Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): The only thing predictable with the PCs that the–is that the potholes are worse than ever. And they're only going to continue to get worse. Now, we know when it comes to health care, things are also worse than they've ever been, parti - cularly in our emergency departments. Wait times are the worst that they've ever been. Doctors are saying that the system is worse than it has ever been. Physicians who've worked in ERs for 30 years are saying that, Madam Speaker. There's no plan from the PCs to fix this crisis at emergency rooms like HSC, where waits are 10 hours

April 26, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1607 long; at emergency rooms like St. Boniface, where people are waiting longer than ever before. Their only answer so far from the Minister of Health (Ms. Gordon) yesterday was we broke it, you fix it. Why has the Premier refused to offer a plan to fix emergency departments in Manitoba? Hon. Heather Stefanson (Premier): Well, Madam Speaker, I ap preciate the question from the member opposite because, just ea rlier this morning, the Minister of Health and I were over at St. Boniface Hospital, announcing $141 million for a new emer - gency room.

So, Madam Speaker, that is clearly our plan. What's unfor tunate is that members opposite yesterday had an opportunity to vote in favour of that, Madam Speaker. Instead, they chose to vote against it. Madam Speaker: The honour able Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Kinew: Madam Speaker, you know me, I'm all about the facts. It's a fact that this gov ernment did announce an emergency room at St. Boniface. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: They announced an emergency room at St. Boniface in 2017. I'll table this, Madam Speaker.

So, again, I'll table the an nouncement that they made for the St. Boniface emergency room in 2017. I'll table the announcement that they made again 2019 when they announced it twice: in August and then again in December. And then, of course, I'll table the announcement that they mad e in 2021 for an emer - gency room in St. Boniface. Madam Speaker, there's still a crisis at St. B, no matter how many times they hold an announcement. After five announcements in five years, who can believe that this gov ernment is going to do anyt hing for the St. B ER? Mrs.

Stefanson: Madam Speaker, $141 million for a new emergency room at St. Boniface Hospital. * (14:10) I was very pleased to join our Minister of Health there today–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mrs. Stefanson: –along with many officials, in - cluding the St. Boniface Hospital research foundation as well, con tributed, as well, $10 million that they announced today towards that initiative, Madam Speaker. That's how we partner with the com munity to ensure that we deliver those services for Manitobans when they need it, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr. Kinew: Madam Speaker, the PC approach to health care is we broke it, now you fix it. Well, o f course –no, sorry; that's not the whole thing. It's also to hold a misleading press an nounce- ment before you blame the system and blame the health-care workers. I laid it out, Madam Speaker. They announced the St. B emergency room in 2017. Then they came back; they did it again in August of 2019. Then they came back again and re -announced the same emergency room in December of 2019.

Then they came back last year in 2021, announced the same ER again. Now they're back again today, re-announcing the same emergency room at St. Boniface. Madam Speaker, who can believe this gov ern- ment when it comes to health care? After five an - nouncements of the same emergency room in five years under four failed Health ministers, who will believe that the Premier will finally do something for the St. B ER now? [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mrs.

Stefanson: Well, Madam Speaker, this coming from the Leader of the Opposition that has absolutely no plan at all, no vision for the future of health care in our province. I am very excited to–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mrs. Stefanson: –have put out this announce ment this morning, Madam Speaker: $141 million, plus another $10 million from the St. Boniface foundation. We thank them for their partnership in this. It was an exciting an nouncement–ER doctors there, Madam Speaker. Everyone is excited – [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mrs. Stefanson: –about this initiative.

They're happy that it's in this budget. They asked for it to be in this budget. And that's why, yesterday, we voted in favour

1608 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 26, 2022 of that, Madam Speaker, while members opposite voted against it. Shame on them. Health-Care System Consolidation Impact on Staffing and ER Services MLA Uzoma Asagwara (Union Station): Madam Speaker, this government likes to talk about things that may happen years down the road, but their years of cuts and consolidation have taken a real toll on our hospitals. Late last week, WRHA CEO Mike Nader said about St. Boniface Hospital, and I quote: Our ability to transition admitted patients from our emergency department/urgent care is seriously impacted right now.

End quote. The minister's response was to tell the region to, and I quote, fix it, Madam Speaker. Why is the minister telling others to fix what she and her government broke? Hon. Audrey Gordon (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, I'm so pleased to share that I was joined by the Premier (Mrs. Stefanson) today at the St. Boniface Hospital as well as Mike Nader, the CEO of WRHA. We were anno uncing $141 million, Madam Speaker–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Ms. Gordon: –$10 million also coming from the foundation for St. Boniface. The investment will triple the size of the ER at St.

Boniface, reduce wait times, improve patient flow an d provide more room for clinical staff to work. Members opposite would do well to remember their own record on wait times and what they did to dismantle the emergency response system in this province. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Union Station, on a supplementary question. MLA Asagwara: Madam Speaker, yesterday the minister's response to this issue was that she was going to insist, and I quote, that the region fix this. Madam Speaker, this minister is completely dis - connected from the actual facts.

Her gov ernment has demanded the region keep up its –keep its ex - penditures, rather, well below the rate of inflation. In fact, the demand is up. On the gov ernment's own website right now–you can go there and see it on their own website–this government's plan is for health regions to keep their spending 4 per cent below the rate of inflation: a health-care cut, Madam Speaker. Why is this minister demanding that others fix what she and her government broke? Ms.

Gordon: For most of last week, the member for Flin Flon (MLA Lindsey) stood in this Chamber and demanded that I ask northern regional health authority and the Thompson General Hospital to fix the hot water. Yesterday, he even suggested that I physically go to the Thompson General Hospital and fix the hot water. Today, they stand in the House and they don't want anything fixed. Would they make a decision about whether or not they want the health system that Manitobans need in their time of care, because if they do, it's our gov ern- ment that will deliver on that commitment.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Union Station, on a final supplementary. MLA Asagwara: Madam Speaker, I have to say, I think it's a particularly low moment for the Minister of Health for her to be critical–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. MLA Asagwara: –of an MLA who is standing up for health care in the North. I commend my colleague for his advocacy for his constituents. Madam Speaker, her gov ernment's cuts and consolidation have left our hospitals on the brink. There are 2,400 nursing positions that are vacant across our province right now.

Nurses are being told they can't take summer holidays with their families, that they've been des perately needing. Nurses and other health -care pr ofessionals have been running short for years. The minister and her government made this mess. Why is the minister asking hospitals to fix it? Ms. Gordon: In Budget 2021, our government com- mitted $812 million to northern health care, Madam Speaker. And in Budget 2022, we have committed $7.2 billion total for health care in Budget 2022.

Madam Speaker, I don't know why the members opposite do not want health-care officials and leaders– [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order.

April 26, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1609 Ms. Gordon: –to fix an ything, but they are well on their way. I'm so pleased to share that, yesterday, the CEO of WRHA shared all the initiatives that are under way to address the wait times. Are the members opposite saying they don't want those initiatives unveiled, they don't want them imple- mented, because they're not accustomed to anything in health care being fixed? Education System Post-Pandemic Plan Mr. Nello Altomare (Transcona): As you know, bill 64 caused a lot of damage and disruption for families, teachers and educators.

In fact, Madam Speaker, the Auditor General just this past week revealed that the over whelming majority of school leadership does not believe this government will do what's right to help kids recover from the pandemic. Unfortunately, this government's post-pandemic education plan is headed in the wrong direction, Madam Speaker. Why is the minister not addressing the serious challenges being faced by our kids in our classrooms? Hon. Wayne Ewasko (Minister of Education and Early Childhood Learning): It gives me great plea- sure to stand up and put some facts on the record, Madam Speaker.

It's interesting that my friend and, you know, col- league from Transcona stands up and again decides to fear monger on the backs of our students' success right here in Manitoba. We know that the last two years have been a–has been a challenge, not only here in Manitoba, Madam Speaker, but across this great country of ours and around the world. During the –during COVID, the pandemic, we have spent well over $250 million to help with stu - dents–their outcomes, their needs–in order to continue their learning successes right here in Manitoba– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired.

The honourable member for Transcona, on a supplementary question. Education Funding Review External Consultant Costs Mr. Nello Altomare (Transcona): As you know, last year we learned that this government wasted a million and a half dollars on a failed bill 64 campaign. And, as a matter of fact, right now, the y're up to doing the same things again. Through FIPPA, Madam Speaker, we found that the government is spending money on external con- sultants instead of kids in the classroom. This consultant is costing us $344,000.

So, Madam Speaker: Why can't the m inister and the–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. * (14:20) Mr. Altomare: –department engage meaningfully with school leadership, and why are they spending $344,000 for a company to review funding of schools? Hon. Wayne Ewasko (Minister of Educat ion and Early Childhood Learning): I appreciate the mem- ber bringing up the great announcement we had right here in Manitoba in regards to the K-to-12 action plan, which is a road map to student success–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr.

Ewasko : It's unbelievable to me, Madam Speaker, that a former principal, administrator, educa- tor himself, would not take the weekend to maybe dive into the action plan so that he could educate himself on the great things that we're moving forward in K-to-12 education. Just to quote from James Bedford, the MTS president: It is gratifying to see that the extensive con- sultation under taken by the com mission is finally reflected. It's clear that MTS, along with other educa- tion stakeholders– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. [interjection] Order.

The honourable member for Transcona, on a final supplementary. Mr. Altomare: Madam Speaker, instead of ensuring that resources are targeted and focused on kids and the classroom, this minister is spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on expensive companies, and that's a fact: 1 and a half million wasted last year, and now $344,000 to another external company. Why is the minister putting consultants over our kids, and why is he spending hun dreds of thousands of dollars for a review done by a private company?

1610 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 26, 2022 Mr. Ewasko: So much good news, Madam Speaker, I just keep running out of time. I've got so much good stuff to share, so many great quotes from our educa- tion partners all across this province. We are getting accolades, Madam Speaker. Our government is getting accolades for the thousands – over 25,000 consul tations in regards to the K -to-12 commission and moving forward on the action plan. The member knows that the old, antiqua ted system of the funding model was old. It needed to be redone. It is so old, Madam Speaker–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr.

Ewasko: –that even the member from Transcona can remember when it was first implemented. We're fixing the system, Mad am Speaker, to make sure that funding is more fair and equitable and putting it in the resources and the hands of the students all across this great province. Electrification of Public Transit Funding to Upgrade Fleet Ms. Lisa Naylor (Wolseley): Madam Speaker, the City of Toronto is purchasing up to 565 electric buses from the Winnipeg-based New Flyer Industries. These buses will modernize Toronto's fleet and help fight climate change.

Many Manitobans are wondering why this gov- ernment can't do the s ame for our transit services. Instead, this government has cut funding and stood in the way of decreasing emissions. Can the minister tell us why this gov ernment won't upgrade Manitoba's transit fleet? Hon. Reg Helwer (Minister of Labour, Consumer Protection and Government Services): Congratula- tions to a great Winnipeg and Manitoba company, NFI Group, for landing a contract with the City of Toronto. Congratulations to the City of Toronto for moving forward with diesel hybrid electric buses, M adam Speaker.

We'd be thrilled to work with the City of Winnipeg to buy these same buses for the city of Winnipeg. Stay tuned, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: The honour able member for Wolseley, on a supplementary question. Ms. Naylor: Madam Speaker, public trans portation has such an important role to play in our fight against climate change. However, despite the minister's com- ments, this gov ernment has actually cut funding to transit services. This jeopardizes their ability to modernize and their ability to decrease emissions.

Toronto, Victoria, Charlottetown, Montreal, Ottawa, even Edmonton are all upgrading to an elec - tric transit fleet, but Manitoba won't do the same. Will the minister follow in the footsteps of many other provinces a nd provide funding to upgrade Manitoba's transit fleets? Mr. Helwer: Well, as the member opposite knows, with the basking funding that we give to the munici- palities, the City of Winnipeg decides where to spend the money. And if they want to look at buying these– [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Helwer: –hybrid diesel -electric busses, we'll work with them on that plan, Madam Speaker.

But we need to see that plan from the City of Winnipeg. We'd be thrilled to see electric busses from a Winnipeg c ompany travelling around the city of Winnipeg streets. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Wolseley, on a final supplementary. Ms. Naylor: Madam Speaker, this gov ernment con- sistently puts the responsi bility on other people and other organizations without providing any of the prov- incial funding to help. Purchasing electric busses would help decrease emissions and flight –fight climate change – [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Ms.

Naylor: –as it would also support an innovative, Manitoba-based company. And this government is in the position to be able to do both, yet they simply are choosing not to. The minister should adequately fund Manitoba's public transportation and provide funding to upgrade our fleets of electric buses. Will the minister provide this commit ment to municipalities today? Mr. Helwer: Well, we don't tell munici palities how to spend the money that we give to them in basket funding. They make that decision, Madam Speaker. And perhaps the member opposite is living in a different world than I am.

I don't see fleets of electric

April 26, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1611 buses in the city of Winnipeg. I'd be thrilled to see that provided by NFI Group, Madam Speaker. Wouldn't you love to see those buses travelling 'alound' Winnipeg streets provided by the stellar Winnipeg and Manitoba company? [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Supplementary Estimates Books Information Available Mr. Mark Wasyliw (Fort Garry): A gov ernment that reduces transparency is a gov ernment that has something to hide. The supplementary Estimates were recently dis - tributed, and the documents are thinner than ever.

This year continues the trend of providing less information in the Estimates books. The documents are missing in- depth breakdowns, instead leaving Manitobans in the dark about why decisions were made. As well, the Estimates books don't include five-year presentations of the budget. This raises the question: Why is the gov ernment reducing transparency? Hon. Scott Fielding (Acting Minister of Financ e): Our government is very proud of our open and trans- parence approach. In fact, we take advice from Manitobans.

Over 51,000 Manitobans gave advice to us in terms of the government–in terms of government dir- ection, in terms of the budget. It's a process that makes sense. There's transparency that's in place. In fact, in this budget alone, we changed the process back–was criticized by opposition, other people–to provide more information so people know exactly where their dollars are being spent. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Fort Garry, on a supplementary question. Mr. Wasyliw: This gov ernment knows that Manitobans are critical of the cuts they've made, whether it's to health care, education and more.

Rather than listen to Manito bans and reverse course, their solution has been to hide and–their actions by provi - ding less detail in the Estimates books. This year's Estimates remove five-year presenta- tions of budgets, likely because it would demonstrate the deep cuts this government has made. Will this government do the right thing and commit to greater transparency? * (14:30) Mr. Fielding: The member's comments talk about cuts to education and other areas. That's absolutely not true, Madam Speaker. We're investing more money in health care. We're investing more money in education.

We're making life more affordable for Manitobans, in terms of – [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Fielding: –reducing education property tax. That's going to have a positive impact on thousands and thousands of Manitobans. Our budget document is based on consul tations with Manitobans. Transparency, that's there. There's more infor mation than there was last year in the budget to make sure Manitobans exactly know where their money is being spent. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Fort Garry, on a final supplementary. Mr.

Wasyliw: The motivation of this gov ernment's clear: they're trying to hide from criticism by reducing the information the public gets. They've rem oved many detailed breakdowns, including five-year presentations of the budgets. And when the gov ernment decreases infor mation and– including these five-year presentations–it reduces the transparency in Manitoba as a whole, and we are all worse off. A gov ernment that is confident in their actions will benefit Manitobans by standing by the information rather than hiding it.

Will this government do the right thing and com- mit to returning to the previous Estimates reporting practices? Mr. Fielding: The member doesn't want to take yes for an answer. We got –we heard from opposi tion, other parties, to make sure that there's more informa- tion being provided in this budget, and that's exactly what this does. In fact, also, on a further transparency basis, we tabled all our Estimates of expenditures earlier on – weeks before. We know what the NDP used to do. They used to table it on the same day that those processes would happen.

Our budget, it makes historic invest ments in things like health care, in education, and it makes life more affordable by making sure that there's an educa- tion property tax. We encourage the members opposite to try and make life more affordable for

1612 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 26, 2022 Manitobans as well, but they had the opportunity and they voted against the budget, Madam Speaker. Winnipeg Hospitals ER Safety Concerns Mr. Dougald Lamont (St. Boniface): We asked earlier this month about disastrous wait times in ERs, which are still a crisis. I table a page from the PC's own wait times task force from December 21, 2017, that warned this gov- ernment against closing Seven Oaks and Concordia ERs early, until the St. Boniface ER was fully ex - panded, because patient volume at St. B would arise by 55 per cent.

Their warning was blunt –and this is pre-pandemic–that St. B's ER does not currently have in-patient capacity, physical infrastructure and may not have the flow metrics or culture necessary to safely accommodate these increased numbers, and that will still be the case for years. Does anyone on the gov ernment side accept re- sponsibility for ignoring their own task force and closing ERs when they were warned it wouldn't be safe? Hon. Audrey Gordon (Minister of Health): I thank the member from St. Boniface for the question.

I do want to put on the record that, since the wait times task force report was released, our government, in 2018, added 1,000 addi tional hip and knee pro- cedures, 2,000 additional cataract procedures to help reduce wait times. In 2019, we actually began some of t he re - novation on the St. Boniface Hospital that we were so pleased to be out today with several officials to announce $141 million.

In 2020, $10- million fund was esta blished for priority procedures, Madam Speaker, and I've talked many times about the $812 million for clinical pre ventative services plan that will streamline services– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. The honourable member for St. Boniface, on a supplementary question. Mr. Lamont: The docu ment I tabled shows the PC government has been ignoring doctors' warnings on safety for years. When this gov ernment declared mission accom plished over the pandemic, Shared Health said flat out that we'd see more COVID 'clases' clogging our hospitals, and it's happening now.

According to WRHA president, CEO Mike Nader, Winnipeg hospitals are seeing a higher than normal spike in COVID admissions, as well as sicker patients than earlier in the pandemic. In credibly, the Health Minister and the Premier (Mrs. Stefanson) denied it, which is hardly reassuring. Since our health-care system's already over capa- city, are we at least going to see a sig nificant ad - vertising campaign pushing the benefits of basic pro- tections like booster vaccinations and masks? Ms. Gordon: Again, a reall y great an nouncement today. I would encourage the member for St.

Boniface to chat with some of the officials from the foundation that was there, from the WRHA. Doctors–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Ms. Gordon: –clinicians, were all part of this great announcement, shovel-turning ceremony. We actually got to see some of the demolition begin and were able take away some of the bricks in memory of the old hospital. So I think the member for St. Boniface should join in some of the excitement about the re develop- ment of the emergency department in his own constit- uency, Madam Speaker. Personal-Care-Home Facilities Staffing Levels and Employment Contract Ms.

Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): Manitoba has some of the worst out comes for seni ors in long-term-care homes, which is in part due to in- adequate staffing levels. Currently, the province has the same staffing numbers in personal-care homes that we have had for almost two decades, despite a grow - ing and aging population. Madam Speak er, staffing contracts for direct - support workers are five years overdue. They have been completely overworked throughout the pan- demic, and this gov ernment has done nothing to address the shortfalls.

Will the minister commit to proper staffing levels and contracts today for those working in long-term-care facilities in Manitoba? Hon. Scott Johnston (Minister of Seniors and Long-Term Care): I can assure the member that we are fulfilling all of our obligations towards keeping seniors safe based on th e Stevenson report, which made recom mendations that do address what the member is indicating.

April 26, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1613 We have already indicated $15 million support in infectious and allied support, as well as housekeeping, and the next stage of our further invest ment into as - sisting seniors and keeping seniors safe will be further initiatives into ensuring staffing is–needs are met. St. Boniface Hospital ER Investments Mr. James Teitsma (Radisson): Madam Speaker, since taking office, our government has been and con- tinues to be strengthening –committed to strength en- ing health care for all Manitobans.

And it's made it a priority to invest in new emer - gency de partments: $23.3 million at the Dauphin Regional Health Centre; $27.1 million at the Flin Flon General Hospit al; and $43.8 million at Winnipeg's Grace Hospital. Emergency departments are critically im portant in the delivery of emergency medicine and our region- al health system as a whole. So, can the Minister of Health please tell us even more about the in vestments being made at the St. Boniface Hospital emergency department? Hon.

Audrey Gordon (Minister of Health): I'd like to thank the member for Radisson for the exceptional question–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Ms. Gordon: –today. Madam Speaker, the Premier (Mrs. Stefanson) and I were able to share with Manitobans that the con- struction on the expansion and modernization of the St. Boniface Hospital emergency depart ment has officially started. Our gov ernment is investing $141 million to triple the size of the current emergency depart ment, adding 86,200 square feet in new construction.

This will reduce wait times and the length of stay, improve patient and staff experiences, expand the space for an increased number of patients. The redeveloped emergency department will then ensure that patient- and family-centred care continues to be provided in a safe– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. Avian Flu Cases Spread Prevention Mr. Diljeet Brar (Burrows): Madam Speaker, a case of avian flu was recently discovered in a com mercial poultry flock in Manitoba. This one case resulted in the culling of 7,000 chickens. Manitoba poultry owners are concerned about the safety of their flocks.

They want to know that this gov- ernment is taking actions to make sure avian flu doesn't spread any further. Can the minister outline the steps that are being taken to contain the spread? Hon. Derek Johnson (Minister of Agriculture): I'd like to thank the member opposite for the question. * (14:40) This member should know that, through the chief veterinary office, Manitoba Agri culture has initiated preparedness and planning discussions with the re - gional CFIA office, and has provided an existing provincial avian influenza plan for review with the Canadian Food Inspection Agency.

The member should also know that the chief veterinary office is monitoring locations and frequencies of the highly pathogenic avian influenza cases in wild birds and domestic poultry. I want to thank the chief veterinary office and the Department of Agriculture for their outstanding work on this issue. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Burrows, on a supplementary question. Mr. Brar: Avian flu is spreading in wild bird popula- tions throughout the world. As migratory birds return to Manitoba, there's fear that they will spread the virus to commercial poultry. It's already happened once.

Manitobans want to know that their flocks are safe from this virus. Will the minister provide details on how Manitoban flocks will be protected? Mr. Johnson: I'd like to thank the member opposite for the question, and maybe next time, he'll take me up on the briefing that I offered for him with the de - partment. The member should know that the avian influenza is a national reportable disease and therefore involves the Canadian Food Inspection Agency and Public Health. Supply managed groups have protocols in place and there are national standards for farm poultry biosecurity.

We as a Province oversee these oper a- tions; however, once the disease is identified, the federal government takes over. I would like to direct the member to the Gov ernment of Canada –to the

1614 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 26, 2022 website where there is a collection of infor mation on avian influenza. Once again, I would ask the producers or owners that have concerns with the health of their flock– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. The time for oral questions has expired. Petitions? Seeing no petitions, grievances? ORDERS OF THE DAY (Continued) GOVERNMENT BUSINESS House Business Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Government House Leader): On House Business, first an announcement.

Pursuant to rule 33(11), I'm announcing that the private member's resolution be considered on the next Tuesday of private member's business will be the one put forward by the honour able member for Tyndall Park (Ms. Lamoureux). The title of the resolu tion is: Calling on the Prov incial Gov ernment to Increase Investment to School Nutrition Programs. Madam Speaker: It has been announced that the private member's reso lution to be considered on the next Tuesday of private member's business will be one put forward by the honour able member for Tyndall Park.

The title of the reso lution is: Calling on the Provincial Gov ernment to Increase Invest ment to School Nutrition Programs. * * * Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Government House Leader): Could you please call for second reading debate this afternoon bills 33, 34, 2, 21 and 30, and then resume second reading debate on bills 7, 8 and 16. Madam Speaker: This afternoon, the House will be resuming consideration of second reading of specified government bills.

As a reminder, limited debates will be taking place in accordance with rule 2(10), with the exception that after each debate concludes, the speaker shall put the question on the bill under con- sideration. For gov ernment specified bills that require the second reading motion to be moved, the minister responsible will move the second reading motion and then speak for up to 10 minutes. A question period of up to–15- minute question period will be held, after which the official op position critic and the in depen- dent Liberals are entitled to speak for up to 10 minutes each.

Once these steps are completed, the question will be put on the reading–second reading motion for that bill. The bills in this category include bills 33, 34, 2, 21 and 30. For specified government bills that have already started the second reading process, the House will deal with the remaining actions that are required to ensure that the question period is finished and the official op- position critic and the independent members have the opportunity to speak up to 10 minutes each, if they have not already done so. Following this, the question will be put on each bill individually.

The bills in this category are Bill 7, with the inde- pendent Liberals getting the oppor tunity to speak for 10 minutes; Bill 8, the official opposi tion critic, the honourable member for St. Johns (Ms. Fontaine), has eight minutes remaining, followed by the independent Liberals for 10 minutes each; Bill 16, the hon ourable members for River Heights (Mr. Gerrard) and for Tyndall Park (Ms. Lamoureux) will have the oppor - tunity to speak for 10 minutes each. The House is to s it until midnight with points of order and matters of privilege to be deferred until all questions have been put.

At midnight, there is to be no further debate. At that time, second reading motions will be moved and the question put imme diately, without d ebate, and the bells can ring for more–no more than one minute on each question. Mr. Goertzen: As the result of a scheduling conflict, despite all of what you just said, I look forward to yielding the floor to the hon ourable minister respon- sible for municipal affairs.

SECOND READINGS Bill 33–The Municipal Assessment Amendment and Municipal Board Amendment Act Madam Speaker: Okay, I will now call second reading of Bill 33, The Munici pal Assessment Amendment and Municipal Board Amendment Act. Hon. E ileen Clarke (Minister of Municipal Relations): I move, seconded by the Minister of Education and Early Child hood Learning (Mr. Ewasko), that Bill 33, the municipal assessment amendment and municipal board amendment, be read a second time and referred to a committee of this House. His Honour the Administrator has been advised of the bill, and I table this message.

April 26, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1615 Madam Speaker: It has been moved by the honour - able Minister of Municipal Relations, seconded by the honourable Minister for Edu cation and Early Childhood Learning, that Bill 33, The Munici pal Assessment Amend ment and Munici pal Board Amendment Act, be now read a second time and be referred to a committee of this House. His Honour the Administrator has been advised of the bill, and the message has been tabled. Ms. Clarke: Bill thirty-thee–three modernizes how Manitobans are able to access their property assess - ment notices.

It allows municipalities to improve ac- cess to assessment roll information, and it supports the Municipal Board in scoping and managing planning appeals. Department officials and I have had the opportun- ity to meet with the municipal and industry stake - holders to share ideas and col laborate on a path forward to enhance planning and dev elopment in Manitoba. I'd like to take this opportunity to thank the numerous stakeholders and the Manitobans who have participated in en gagements and discussions that ul - timately led to the development of this legislation.

This bill enhances assessability and transparency of assessment information, and it improves client ser- vices for the property owners. This legis lation will allow assessment notices to be sent electronically and enable municipalities to share assessment roll infor- mation onl ine. Enabling property owners to access their assessment notices and assessment rolls elec - tronically will bring Manitoba in line with current customer service standards already adopted by other jurisdictions, as well as private companies.

Bill 33 also supports and clarifies the enhanced authority of the Municipal Board to scope and manage planning appeals effectively and efficiently. Bill 33 will further support the successful implementation of planning appeals under the planning amendment of the City of Winnipeg Charter Amendment Act, pro- claimed October 29th of 2021. First, Madam Speaker, I will address the amend - ments we are proposing in The Municipal Assessment Act. Currently, in Manitoba, all property owners re - ceive their notice of assessment via mail, with no op- tion to receive it electronically.

Manitoba prints and mails assessment notices for property owners outside of the city of Winnipeg. Our proposed legis lative changes will enable electronic assessment notices to be sent t o the property owners. For example, it enables the City of Winnipeg to send electronic assessment notices, should they choose to in the future. And, I'm pleased to announce that, effective later this spring, people in all other municipalities will have this option–or, pardon me, oppor tunity to sign up to receive electronic assessment notices through my de- partment's new initiative, mypropertyMB.

An electronic assessment notice will replace paper notices if Manitobans opt in to receive this elec- tronic notice. Property owners will be able to access and save electronic version of their notice in a place that's convenient for them. * (14:50) Migrating property owners to electronic services, along with the reduction in the print services offered, represents a significant opportunity to improve client service and infor mation ac cessibility for property owners. It also presents an oppor tunity for cost savings and reduce the Province's environmental foot- print.

Legislation currently requir es the 'assepsment' roll to be available in a municipal office during office hours, implying that citizens are required to visit municipal offices to view their assessment rolls. These legis lative amendments will enable munici - palities to also provide online access to their assess - ment rolls so citizens could view them at a place and a time that is convenient for them. Certain personal identifying infor mation of property owners will be removed from roll infor mation before it is shared online.

The proposed legis lation aligns with our de - partment's objectives of enhancing transparency and client services. Now, Madam Speaker, I'd like to turn to the proposed changes to The Munici pal Board Act. We have been listening to stake holders. The input we received from the Association of Manitoba Municipalities, the public and other stakeholders has helped shape these amendments. Planning appeals are fundamental to open and fair planning systems and are necessary for upholding transparent and accountable decisions.

The proposed amendments will streamline processes, improve trans- parency and ensure timely reso lutions for planning appeals with the Municipal Board moving forward.

1616 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 26, 2022 Bill 33 gives clear author ity to the Municipal Board to work with parties to use effective and mutually beneficial alternatives to more costly and time-consuming public hearings. If both parties to an appeal agree to engage in meditation–mediation, such as a case management rather than a hearing, they will have a maxim um of 60 days to reach that mutual agreement. This timeline will allow the Municipal Board to allocate sufficient time for parties to mean - ingfully engage in consensus building.

To streamline the planning appeals process further, appellants will be required to state grounds for their appeal in their initial filing with the board. This will improve transparency and account ability while helping to narrow and limit the scope and the extent of future appeals to the board. The Municipal Board will also have the authority to dismiss appeals for reasons written in legis lation. The board may dismiss an appeal at any point prior to the hearing with written notification for reasons such as subject matter that is frivolous or not within the board's jurisdiction.

Appellants then in turn must be provided an opportunity to be heard by the board as to the dismissal. The amendments we are proposing provide a con- sistent framework for the planning application and the appeal process. Municipalities and planning districts will continue to exercise their authority in establishing local bylaws, standards and requirements. Overall, I have to say that I am pleased with this legislation, that it delivers on our gov ernment's com- mitments to improve client services, reduce costs and streamline planning processes. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Questions Madam Speaker: A question period of up to 15 minutes will be held. Questions may be addressed to the minister by any member in the following sequence: first ques tion by the official opposition critic or designate; subsequent questions asked by critics or designates from other recognized opposition parties; subsequent questions asked by each independ- ent member; remaining questions asked by any oppo- sition members; and no question or answer shall exceed 45 seconds. Mr. Matt Wiebe (Concordia): I suppose my first question maybe should just be to give the minister a chance to catch her breath.

I appreciate her rushing in to ensure that she's here for this part of the process in terms of Bill 33. The question I have is: This bill allows permit notices and other documents to be sent electronically and to deter mine when such notices and documents are considered to be received. How will this work for those who have limited access to email? Hon. Eileen Clarke (Minister of Municipal Relations): I thank my critic for the question, and I also at this time want to thank him for being at AMM last week.

It was good to know that our gov ernment as a whole was well represented there, and I know that it was appreciated by all who attended. And in regards to the electronic process here, we realize it's going to take time to transition and that there is limited access, of course, with Internet across our province, but that's why there is an option for that mail–still to get the mail-in notice of assessment, but it will take time to transition as more and more come– more familiar with the process. Hon.

Jon Gerrard (River Heights): I notice that the– for those notices which come in by mail, that it's deemed to be received on the third day after the notice or document is mailed. My ex perience in rural Manitoba is that very often people don't get mail for a week, and I –this seems quick when we're working in a lot of rural Ma nitoba and some fairly remote regions. I wonder if the minister would comment. Ms. Clarke: I'd like to acknowledge that the member opposite has a very good point.

I–living in a rural area, I certainly do recog nize that mail–receiving mail in three days is virtually, pro- bably non- existent even when you pay extra mail – postage for it to happen. So I have made note of that and I will certainly take that back. Thank you. Mr. Wiebe: Well, it seems like the member for River Heights and I are on the same pa ge, so I appre ciate him expediting the process of getting to the point I was trying to make. I guess I wanted to just ask a little bit about the consultation process with regards to this bill.

Obviously, there were a lot of concerns around bill 37, you know, not least of which from the association Manitoba municipalities. I know that this bill tries to address some of those concerns. Can the minister talk about the process that was undertaken to consult with the AMM and others? Ms. Clarke: Again, a good point taken.

April 26, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1617 I'm–I find comfort in the fact that –when I was aware that there is a table, a group table that has been working not only on bill 37, which has now been passed, but also on the next phases. This is a process. I mean, this was intro duced in 2019. We're now in 2022, so this isn't anything that's happening at lightning speed.

And we do have what I would consider a very profes sional and knowledge - able group of people that are on this working table that are literally from government, from municipal and the department– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. Mr. Gerrard: Yes, also, following up on what I raised earlier, but this time with the email. I note that the email is deemed to be received on the date that the electron ic com munication is sent.

Now, not everybody looks at their email every five minutes or even every day, and it seems to me that, particularly, there will be people who look at their email perhaps only during the working week, or perhaps only on weekends. But I would suggest that that be changed to the day–the next working day after it is sent– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. Ms. Clarke: I agree probably not everybody looks at their email every day, and I don't know that's it's expedient that they have to look at every document as soon as they receive it every day.

I don't know how most people do their business, but I'm–like, I hear my colleague say, I'm 'len' my Internet probably several times a day from early–early, early morning until late night. So I think the fact that it is sitting there, it is upon the due diligence of the person receiving it to check emails if they're expecting other documents. Mr.

Wiebe: Before I ask my next question, I just want to ensure that the minister is clear that the reason why this bill didn't move through at lightning speed, as she called it, was because of the work of the official op- position in holding up and stopping that piece of terrible legislation along with so many others. So I'm glad that she's on board with that, and appreciates now how important it was for us to do that and to hold up that piece of legislation.

I'd like to ask the minister, what is accom plished by giving the board the power to dismiss a hearing without hear–sorry, dismiss a matter without hearing in certain circumstances, and what protec tions are there for those who do wish to have a hearing? * (15:00) Ms. Clarke: I think any of us that have worked in any capacity of the municipalities or planning or bylaws would certainly understand what frivolous means. There are certain issues that come forward that need some type of mediation or an appeal where you can clearly understand, just by reading it, that it's either personal conflict or some thing.

It would have to be very clear if it was going to be dismissed in that respect. Mr. Gerrard: Madam Speaker, we live in a world where, increasingly, we are–have to deal with hacking and cyber attacks and those sorts of things. As we move into this electronic c ommunication realm, I would ask the minister what measures are being taken with regard to hacking and so on when we're moving into this world for municipalities all over the province, where, in some cases, they may not have the ability to have real, major expertise in dealing with hacking. Ms. Clarke: I think we're talking about an assessment notice here.

It's not exactly the most critical, although, you know, we all want to receive our assessments and there's plenty of time to receive the assessments. But, you know, to start talking about cyber attacks, et cetera, over an assessment being sent electronic- ally–I think, if there is such an attack, it would affect a lot more than just assessment rolls being sent out. Mr. Wiebe: This bill, obviously, makes changes that impact the municipal assessment board. Likewise, Bill 24 was another bill that this gov ernment was attempting to pass in this session.

We've held that bill up with the intent to allow municipalities more time to get briefed and get more information. Can the minister talk about the relationship between this bill and Bill 24 and how that might impact municipalities? Ms. Clarke: This bill stands alone. I mean, this is part of bill 37–it's a continuation. It's a bill that is part of the process to modernize our planning, work more regionally and move our province forward.

When you look back, and when we're talking about the Municipal Board, the member opposite heard this week, too, when we took over in 2016, we were nine years behind in assessment appeals –two hundred–2,243 cases. That's not the case anymore. So, I mean, the fact that we're actually doing the work–

1618 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 26, 2022 and that is partially why it's taking a little bit longer, is because we're–we had to catch up to get going fresh. Mr. Gerrard: Yes, switching to an electronic world where all this infor mation is flowing electronically means that people are going to have to be on top of their computers and make sure that they're working all the time. Some communities will have people who are expert in making sure that computers can be repaired rapidly, but others may not.

Will the process take into account the fact that, in some cases, people will not get notices because their computer is not working? Ms. Clarke: I'm probably one of the most elec - tronically challenged people that there is in the room right now, but I do get certain amount of my bills electronically every month. And I think for those who are choosing–you get the choice to have this done electronically; you have a choice to get it by mail–and if you're choosing to get it electronically, you know when they're coming and you can be watching for it if you're really, you know, that anxious to get it, as such.

But it's the way of our world, working more quickly, and this is still just an option. Mr. Wiebe: Well, the minister admits that this is a continuation of bill 37 which, I would remind her, is still universally criticized by municipalities across the province. And, you know, one of the funda mental concerns that those mu nicipalities had was with regards to their democratic autonomy. So I'm asking the minister: What in this bill ad - dresses the concerns that Manitoba municipalities have with regards to their autonomy and their demo - cratic right to choose for their ratepayers? Ms.

Clarke: Of course, the regulations for bill 37 are still being worked on. The AMM, for instance, has membership or staff sitting on this working table. They meet on a regular basis. They are going to con- tinue to meet on a regular basis. This is a living docu- ment. We will keep working at it. They have every opportunity as do the industry to bring forward any concerns that they have. It will be just worked with until–is there going to be changes along the way? Of course there is. And there i s a review every three years. Mr.

Gerrard: Yes, I'd like to ask the minister whether she's considered, given that there may be issues or glitches, to have a transition period of six months or a year where there's a little bit more leniency if there are glitches in dealing with these matters. Madam Speaker: The hon ourable member for –the honourable Minister for Municipal Relations. Ms.

Clarke: And, of course, I think having worked as a busi nessperson with gov ernment in the past, whether it was sales tax or anything, I always found most government departments were very understand- ing, especially when there's a new process and people are learning. I would imagine that there would be a lot of understanding if there's extra instructions required or anything of that sort. Mr.

Wiebe: Of course, one of the arguments against bill 37 was that this gov ernment, rather than looking at the experience of other provinces and learning from those other jurisdictions, they were, you know, sort of repeating s ome of those same mistakes that other jurisdictions undertook. How does this bill address some of those con- cerns, and how does it contrast to other juris dictions and their similar legislation? Ms. Clarke: Although the member indicates that we have not learned from others in other jurisdictions, we certainly have.

And I guess the big–best part of it all is most other cities across Canada have transitioned to this, and we have taken the best practices of every - body else and are designing Manitoba's. It's a made- in-Manitoba transition, and I think they have actually done a very good job working on it to this point. Madam Speaker: Are there any further questions? Debate Madam Speaker: If there are no further questions, the floor is open for debate. Mr.

Matt Wiebe (Concordia): I appreciate the op - portunity to rise and put a few words on the record with regards to Bill 33, and as the minister mentioned in her opening comments, or I guess in one of the answers to the questions, we did have an oppor tunity to be together in Brandon last week to hear directly from municipalities from across the province. I think if I remember hearing correctly, some - where north of 400, 500 delegates, 600 delegates who were present in Brandon.

It was fantastic to b e together with those elected officials in person again, Madam Speaker, and in a much more relaxed way even than we had been able to just this last fall. So it was very much appreciated on my part, and I commend the minister for making herself available

April 26, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1619 to those munici palities, and I do believe taking the time to make herself available to put on the words–her words on the record, so to speak, in terms of the con- vention of what their government sees as priorities. But, you know, I know that the mini ster would have heard the same things I heard, which were, I mean, first of all, a fun damental disappointment in this government in terms of their funding and their support of local government.

But with regards to bill 37, this is still an issue that is live and is certainly an issue that munici palities wanted–made sure to pull me aside in the convention hall or while I was walking through the hallways, to ensure I knew just how detrimental bill 37 will con- tinue to be on their municipalities. Mr. Andrew Micklefield, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair * (15:10) You know, we've been accused many times as an opposition of fear mongering, and, you know, even now we hear members opposite say, don't worry, just trust us, this time it's different.

Bill 37, you know – well, I guess I should say let's back up a little bit, be - cause it was actually bill 48, originally, that we halted in its tracks when the gov ernment was saying, don't worry, just trust us. M unicipalities said, we had no consultation on this legislation, this was terrible legis- lation and very concern ing to us. We stood up, you know, and it wasn't without some backlash. Members opposite said, well, you know, this is–we need to get this legis lation moving forward; it has to be done.

Course, we know that was because of the premier's timeline to get out and run far away from this sinking ship. But we held it up, and we made sure that Manitoba municipalities had that opportunity to look at this legislation and to consult and talk to the gov- ernment, and they did. They did the heavy lifting. They went in and made sure the minister knew exactly how bad this legis lation was going to be in terms of affecting their local autonomy and their democratic right as local elected officials.

But a lso to address those issues around red tape, around, you know, possibly, situations where, you know, different cases were brought forward that were not substan tial and would tie up the process–would actually make things less efficient for these municipalities, put a lot of the burden–the administrative burden–back onto munici- palities. This was part of their message that we brought forward as an official opposition, and, of course, then the government came back and said, well, just trust us again; here's bill 37.

Now, of course, the gov ernment is the gov ern- ment, and they get to push through and ram through any legislation that they see fit, and so, of course, they did. They did exactly that, despite the concerns of municipalities across the province, and I want to make that very clear, Mr. Deputy Speaker. You know, as much as this is an issue affecting metro Winnipeg and some of the municipalities sur- rounding, and they have very specific concerns with regards to this legis lation, we know that this is a concern across the province.

And when I was able to visit–in many cases virtually, but visit those munici - palities, we heard over and over again that bill 37 was just a copy of bill 48 and that we were going to run into some of the same problems. So fast -forward here to this bill today, Bill 33. And what we know is, is that the gov ernment, again, is continuing to backtrack, is trying to run away from its record of trying to jam this legislation through, and they are trying to make sure that some of the exact same issues that we said municipalities had with their original legislation would come to pass.

They are try- ing to backtrack, and they're trying to say, well, now– now it's better, and now, just trust us. Well, again, we were at AMM. I certainly heard it. I know the minister –well, you know, she heard it; did she listen? I'm not sure. But the point was is that municipalities were loud and clear saying that this was –this is, again, legis - lation that doesn't actually–it doesn't actually address the issue that they're having with regards to their local autonomy and their ability to have a say when it comes to, you know, proposed development, et cetera.

This piece of legislation does make some, again, administrative changes. It does allow for electronic documents, which, you know –this is like a suite of legislation that's coming forward now from this gov- ernment that's basically saying, okay, you know, it's now 2022, and we're going to catch up. You know, I'd call that housekeeping at best, but, you know, I'll give it–I'll give the government their due. Absolutely, let's move into the future when it comes to the ability to communicate with ratepayers –in this case, munici - palities.

Let's have their ability to be more efficient in their process and with the municipal board. But, again, this is not the groundbreaking stuff that maybe the minister wants people to believe. This

1620 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 26, 2022 doesn't address the funda mental issues that munici- palities have with bill 37. And so as they muddle their way through this and continue to change or amend or bring forward legislation–including, as I said, Bill 24, which, you know, I was hoping the minister would give some insight into why they would bring forward a piece of legislation for second reading without even having briefed the –and spoken to in a full, kind of comprehensive way those municipalities who are going to be affected.

And, you know, I don't know know if the AMM has been briefed but I will tell you that municipalities around t he province are reaching out to us to say, we're concerned.

So we're, you know, we're happy to, once again, hold up legis lation, give them an oppor tunity to be briefed, not just the AMM but, you know, anyone else that needs that information, and we want to work with them to make sure that their concerns are once again heard, because as we're moving forward under this new regime that's been installed under bill 37 we have to ensure that we get the details right because we don't want things to be hung up in the –at the Municipal Board.

We certainly don't want the voices of local resi - dents to be drown out by a board–an unelected board that has no accountability and no, you know, no rea - son to listen to the concerns of citizens –really is just singularly focused and is focused in a way that is, you know, at the end of the day, ultimately, you know, pushed forward or controlled by the minister of municipal affairs and the Cabinet and, in this case, the Premier (Mrs. Stefanson). So we have some serious concerns with this. That being said, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, I will say that as part of our Manitoba process, you know, this is now going to pass today –second reading–and I look forward to now listening to those municipalities who are going to come forward, who are going to give us their best advice, who are going to talk about the issues that they've had with the Municipal Board, how this legislation is going to either help or hurt them in terms of their admin istration burden and creating more red tape. And I look forward to hearing from them and taking that advice forward.

What I'd ask of the government, and I do hope that they are listening, that they would consider, if there are amendments, if there are changes that need to be made, that they would listen to those. Again, you know, the minister, in her answers today, seemed to take, you know, take some notes and be willing to work with us, so I think that's a good indication of where we might land, but it is important now to follow through on that. And we're going to like to listen to municipalities, who are then going to make sure that the government gets the message loud and clear.

And as the –as we move forward through this process again–Bill 24, other pieces of legis lation that are before the Legislature now that will, you know, that will impact this process, and any new ones that are coming down the line, because I would imagine there's more to come from this gov ernment–we want to make sure that we're doing our due diligence, holding up any bills that have significant concerns out in the commu- nity and really bringing those voices forward. I think that's an important role that we can play as an official opposition.

And again, with a government that might actually listen, we could make some positive changes. So, I look forward to seeing this legis lation moved to the second reading process and public hearings. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): This bill brings in the potential for use of electronic com munications widely in rural Manitoba. It enables assessment infor- mation to come online and it permits documents of varied natures to be sent electronically. These are positive moves and certainly ones which we're ready to support.

The concerns that we have are on t he transition from where we are now to where we want to go, where more and more is done and available and working well electronically. We're concerned that the timelines, whether it is for mail or whether it is for electronic com muni- cations, are not made too tight. In part, this is because, although an assessment notice may not have a quick timeline, very often these timelines will then be used for other things which may, indeed, have quicker re - quired turnaround times for people.

And we think that when you're setting up a system which is going to be used widely, electronically, that it's important to have different purposes for that system working in a similar way and a similar timeline in terms of when mail and when electronic communications are deemed as being received because people will remember that better if there is a consistent timeline for having accepted that an email has been received. * (15:20)

April 26, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1621 We also think that, particularly in rural areas, and this is a assessment for outside of Winnipeg, that there are considerations in terms of computers not working, in terms of people being hacked, et cetera, that it's im- portant to have a transition period we suspect of about a year. And in that transition period, there will be more leniency.

Now, it is good that the minister has put on record her expectation that there would be leniency because that will–comments on record here in Hansard can then be used for people who are trying to deal with an electronic communication and having some problems in the early phase of this procedure.

So, with those comments, I look forward to this moving on to com mittee stage and whatever com - ments or discussions that people will have, and for this change to be made for rural Manitoba, which will actually bring what happens outside of Winnipeg closer to what is being done in Winnipeg, which will be a good thing and a good alignment. So, thank you. Merci. Miigwech. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The question before the House is second reading of Bill 33, The Munic ipal Assessment Amendment and Municipal Board Amendment Act.

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] Bill 34–The City of Winnipeg Charter Amendment and Planning Amendment Act Mr. Deputy Speaker: We now move to Bill 34, The City of Wi nnipeg Charter Amendment and Planning Amendment Act. Hon. Eileen Clarke (Minister of Municipal Relations): I move, seconded by the Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure (Mr. Piwniuk), that Bill 34, The City of Winnipeg Charter Amendment and Planning Amendment Act, be now read a second time and be referred to a committee of this House. Motion presented. Ms.

Clarke: Bill 34 will amend The City of Winnipeg Charter and The Planning Act to stream line land-use planning, reduce red tape and modernize building in- spection processes. This bill is a priority for the govern of Manitoba and supports key recom men- dations of the 2019 Treasury Board review of Planning, Zoning and Permitting in Manitoba, and it builds on previous legis lative changes und er the planning amendment and City of Winnipeg Charter amendment act that was passed May 20, 2021, pre - viously known as bill 37. We have been listening to stakeholders.

The in- put we received from the Association of Manitoba Municipalities, the public and other stakeholders such as professional planners and the development industry has helped shape this legislation. I'd like to take this op portunity to thank the numerous stakeholders for their feedback and work- ing with our gov ernment to improve and modernize processes in Manitoba. Ensuring municipal governments make decisions on planning applications with consistent timelines across the province provides greater certainty needed for development and invest ment.

Now, more than ever, this is critical to support recovery efforts from the challenges created by COVID-19. Bill 34 compliments and clarifies existing time - lines in The City of Winnipeg Charter and The Planning Act, including requiring planning authorities to determine whether a planning application is com - plete or not within 20 days and move it through their processes, and reducing the timelines to file an appeal to the Munici pal Board on subdivi sions, aggregate quarries and large -scale livestock operations from 30 days to 14 days under The Planning Act to align with other appeal timelines.

This ensures that any appeal is identified early. In response to stakeholder feedback, the bill also aligns the timelines on planning applications in the legislation to be extended w ith the agreement of the parties. This bill also gives planning authorities the ability to hold combined hearings on two or more planning applications, further streamlining timelines. Another important feature of Bill 34 is that it cre- ates greater clarity and transparency around secondary plan processes within the City of Winnipeg.

Bill 34 provides legal framework for the City of Winnipeg to implement its secondary plan policies as outlined in the proposed Complete Communities 2.0 plan. Under this legislation, the City can only require an applicant to prepare a secondary plan if it has adopted a bylaw that sets consistent rules on when a secondary plan is required and what the requirements actually are. This brings added transparency and 'consistenty' to this im portant tool, and the bill brings secondary plans into alignment with other planning processes by establishing timelines and giving applicants the right

1622 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 26, 2022 to appeal missed timelines and council decisions on applicant-prepared secondary plans to the Munici pal Board. Bill 34 also reduces red tape for the city of Winnipeg property owners as well as the court system. Amendments will remove outdated need to annually audit Winnipeg's Sinking Fund Trustees twice. They will also reduce red tape around property removal and demolition on land and tax arrears by removing the requirement for one step of what used to be a two-step process.

These changes align with the work of the City of Winnipeg-government of Manitoba col laboration tables subcommittee on the City of Winnipeg Charter that continuous to find ways to reduce red tape and remove out–improve outcomes. Bill 34 also amends the City of Winnipeg Charter act to create a new definition of designated official to enable the City of Winnipeg to choose either a desig- nated employee or designated official to conduct building and fire inspections.

This means the City of Winnipeg will have the same ability to engage third parties in inspections as already exists in other muni- cipalities that choose to do it in the rest of Manitoba. The Province of Manitoba is taking responsibility to ensure that the regulatory processes in our province operate in efficient, transparent and consistent manner and achieve the desired out comes.

These changes to the City of Winnipeg Charter and The Planning Act deliver on our government's commitment to modern- ize and stream line planning processes and reduce red tape, an un necessary admin istrative burden on Manitobans and key stakeholders. I am confident that Bill 34 will support economic growth and ensure Manitoba remains competitive and attractive for business and job growth.

And, finally, before I close, I would like to take this op portunity to recog nize Mike T eillet and his 'contribusions' to the land-use planning fields over the last 45 years, including 30 years with the government of Manitoba through various government administra- tions. After officially retiring from the Province of Manitoba in 2007, Mike re turned to gov ernment in 2019 to provide leadership on a number of strategic projects, including this work in improving our approach to planning.

Mike has been a leader in the field of land use planning and has continuously demonstrat ed both a professional and a personal commitment to building vibrant, healthy and safe com munities across our province. I want to thank Mike for his service to Manitobans and wish him well as he embarks on a new chapter, and I want to thank him for taking a great deal of time briefing me and getting me up to speed. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Questions Mr. Deputy Speaker: A question period of up to 15 minutes will be held.

Questions may be addressed to the minister by any member in the following sequence: first question by the official opposi tion critic or designate; subsequent questions asked by critics or designates from other recognized opposition parties; subsequent questions asked by each indepen- dent member; remaining questi ons asked by any op- position members. And no question or answer shall exceed 45 seconds. Mr.

Matt Wiebe (Concordia): One of the most surprising parts of the process of bill 37 was how developers came to committee here in the Legislature to speak out about that bill and some of the issues that they had with it. * (15:30) Can the minister talk about the consultations that she undertook, specifically with who, with regards to Bill 34? Hon. Eileen Clarke (Minister of Municipal Relations): Well, I thank the member opposite for the question.

When he talks about munici palities be very un - happy with these bills in parti cular, I found quite the opposite last week after sitting down and taking the time to discuss, you know, what was happening, where we've been, what we're doing, where we plan to go. Very often it was, you know, this is complicated, this has changed, I don't know that I fully understand it. And it was –that's why it was so great to have that opportunity, one-on-one, to discuss their concerns and clarify what they weren't understanding. We have 137 municipalities across this province and that's a lot of councils to deal with– Mr.

Deputy Speaker: The minister's time has expired. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Yes, one of the aspects or one of the facts which is going to be impor- tant in interpreting this is the definition of a secondary plan.

April 26, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1623 Now, I gather the secondary plan can be a specific neighbourhood or region, or part of a city like Winnipeg. How big or how small can that be, that you could have a secondary plan? Can it be a house, or has it got to be a block? Or is it–you know, what's the size of the–a unit that would be a secondary plan? Ms. Clarke: I would say to the member opposite, when we're talking a secondary plan, that is a plan that is specific to a given area that makes them unique from the greater regional group.

And in secondary planning it can be–I will not give a definition of what type of structure, whether it's a single unit or a multi-, you know, f amily unit, but it is something that is unique to that particular area of planning. Mr. Wiebe: Well, again, you know, the minister is talking about the concern that municipalities have, and certainly there's no question that they did. You know, that's w hy they came to com mittee with con - cerns around bill 37.

I guess what I'm asking is, though, with regards to developers, that was one of the most surprising elements of that process, was that developers came to this Legislature and were concerned. Now, these in- cluded some of the developers who sat on the working group that the minister had established. So I'm asking her, who is on that working group now and which developers is she consulting with on this legislation? Ms. Clarke: Mr. Deputy Speaker , I'm not going to name the developers by name. There were several of them and I have met with them, specifically since I've been in this office, the past three months.

And I've got some of the comments here that they left with me, and it was in the past. They have walked away because they got lost in the process. They have indicated that our economy was stalled, the way things were. There was no account - ability. They had to go to too many different offices. There was too much red tape. And they indicated that, by what we're doing by improving the economic dev- elopment practices based on what's being done here in Canada and globally, with positive results for residen- tial and other development, we are on the right track. And that was their words. Mr.

Gerrard: To the minister: This legislation would decrease the timeline for an appeal to the Munici pal Board from 30 days to 14 days. What sort of public awareness is the minister going to carry out so that she can be assured that there will be widespread awareness of this change once the bill is passed? Ms. Clarke: The member opposite has a good point. This is a lot of change, and there is going to be a lot of communication required. We're already working on the com munication strategy, and I have to say, like, by attending events as AMM.

They have June district meetings coming up in June that covers seven different regions across the province. There will be a lot of work done to com - municate in a very effective manner. I've made it very aware to all the different stakeholders that I will be expecting strong communication and strong trans- parency. Mr. Wiebe: Well, I'm concerned that the minister won't, you know, divulge who she's consulting with because, you know, as I said, it was quite stri king to hear from those developers.

But spe cifically, you know, some of these changes are very favourable to the work that they–and the concerns that they had. So, why she wouldn't put that information on the record, I'm not quite sure. You know, and I know in other cases, ministers have agreed to bring that infor- mation forward at committee stage or whatever, so I'd just, you know, open that back up for her. Concern is with regards to the timelines for ap- plication processing, which can be extended with agreement of the applicant. Can they also be extended with agreement from the municipality or the planning– Mr.

Deputy Speaker: The member's time has expired. Ms. Clarke: I thank the member opposite for that question, and I'm going to share a few more comments that I've received in the meetings that I've had coming to today. The thing about this is now we will have all levels of government working on the same page. This doesn't create a new level of gov ernment. It's regional plan- ning, and that's where we want to be. It will build a sustainable foundation for future successes, and we're already well on the way to that. Mr.

Gerrard: I notice that in clause 50 it's stated that, beginning a review of the dev elopment plan, council must consult with the capital planning region.

1624 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 26, 2022 As this, I believe, deals with the City of Winnipeg, can you–the minister explain what the con- sultation with the capital planning region will involve that the City of Winnipeg has to go through? Ms. Clarke: We do not refer to a capital region anymore, it's the Winnipeg Metro Region, which is inclusive of Winnipeg, and I believe it's the 18 stakeholder municipalities. They've been working 'collatabralively' since 2019 and, going forward, there will ultimately be a board struck within the Winnipeg Metro Region for this planning. Mr.

Wiebe: Can the minister talk about the changes that are being made to The CentrePort Canada Act and the impact that this bill will have on that particular bill–or, act, I should say. Ms. Clarke: With CentrePort explicitly, there's a lot of ongoing discussion with CentrePort, and we look forward to further deliberations with them. They, of course, are in this, in the RM of Rosser, and Rosser is very committed to this process going forward. So, those are the stake holders that we are been meeting with, and we will continue to–in those deliberations. Mr.

Gerrard: To the minister: This clause 50 spe - cifically specifies the capital planning region, and what I believe the minister was s aying, that this con- sultation would have to go to the board of these 18 municipality–is that right? Ms. Clarke: I don't have a copy of the act in front of me that the member is referring to, but I will take it into consideration, and I will look up that and get back to you. Mr. Wiebe: You know that this bill proposes to ex- tend the expiry date of approved variances, which may now be extended for up to three years.

Can the minister talk about the impact that that might have on municipalities and, again, their ability to make decisions about land use within their jurisdic- tions? * (15:40) Ms. Clarke: Again, if the member opposite wants to talk about extended timelines, I think the fact that, you know, we've been cleaning up a mess of appeals and hearings that were nine years in the waiting when people got frustrated and left.

Every thing about this streamlines the process, it reduces red tape and it cuts that way down so that we can attract these investors that want to come to Manitoba, regardless of whether it's in the metro region or in the city of Winnipeg, and we look forward to that. Mr. Gerrard: Yes, part of this legis lation provides that individuals who are not employees of the City of Winnipeg can be appointed to act as inspectors and issue orders on behalf of the City of Winnipeg. Basically, it's contracting out services.

What precautions will be taken to make sure that there's not conflict of interest between the organi - zation or individual who's contracting out and the building or indiv idual or operation which is being inspected? Ms. Clarke: The practice of hiring an outside inspector rather than a City employee or a munici pal employee, that's been long-standing across the whole province of Manitoba. I actually dealt with that as a mayor, and when there is a conflict, there is usually an alternative inspector that will go.

They make their conflict known ahead of time and that is some thing that we deal with as a municipality or we dealt with as a municipality, but there's always options. Mr. Wiebe: Well, again, it's nice, Mr. Deputy Speaker, when the member for River Heights (Mr. Gerrard) and I are on the same page in terms of questions that we need to ask here today. The question I have is with regards to consul ta- tion with the C ity of Winnipeg. Obviously, this pro- vision was borne from quite a contentious relationship between the Province and the City.

Now, I know that the gov ernment is saying that there's –things are different now. So, I guess I'm just asking, what kind of consulta- tion and feedback did the minister receive from the City of Winnipeg with regards to this? Ms. Clarke: Whatever the past was is the past, and actually the con sultation and the planning staff, as well as other staff from the City of Winnipeg that are at the col laboration table, have been a part of this process right from the beginning.

And I have to say, in meeting with the col labo- ration table, which I have, I was very pleased to see the working respect within the group as well as the – all the ideas that were coming forward. It was a very respectful group and the dialogue was very positive. Mr. Gerrard: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I note that part of this bill deals with the fact that the City of Winnipeg can serve certain compliance orders and demo lition orders by a substitutional service, and I wonder if the

April 26, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1625 minister could clarify what would be involved in a substitutional service and how it would be chosen? Ms. Clarke: That was one of the most contentious items with the City of Winnipeg was demolitions, and often they had to go for years and years before they could do a demolition. This process is going to streamline this and consequently, they will have more properties.

As you know, they're very short of prop- erty in the City of Winnipeg right within the general area, and this way they can have older properties that are derelict or where there's nobody living, they can have them removed more quickly. Mr. Wiebe: So, just to be clear, not to put too fine a point on it, but I just want to be clear that the minister is saying unequivocally that the City of Winnipeg is approving of the idea of individuals who are not em - ployees of the city who could be appointed to act as inspectors and issue orders to remedy contraventions.

She's had discussions with the City and they're in one hundred per cent support of this part of the bill? Ms. Clarke: I'll make it very clear to the member opposite: I do not sit at that collaboration table. They are professional people who deal with planning, who deal with regulations. I am not a part of that table. I am the minister and they bring these forward, so thank you very much for the question. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The time for questions has expired. Debate Mr. Deputy Speaker: The floor is open for debate. Mr. Mat t Wiebe (Concordia): Thank you very much, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, and thank you again to the minister for taking the time to answer some of these questions. I do think that's it's important part of the process, and I do hope that we do get more infor - mation as we go forward. You know, similar to the comments that I made with regards to the last bill, you know, here we go again. This is sort of trying to, you know, plug up the holes in the dike, so to speak, with regards to the issues around bill 37. And in this case the, you know, these –many of the issues that were identified by the City of Winnipeg are contained in here, but many are not.

And many, in fact, are simply furthered, and the intent of bill 37 remains in that it takes the control away from the democratically elected folks here in the city of Winnipeg and in the metro region and puts it in the hands of unelected munici pal officials. This a big concern, Mr. Deputy Speaker, because this bill does have wide-ranging impacts. And, you know, as I said, I was quite surprised when I sat down–in fact, I think I made these com - ments here in the House and shortly after com mittee for bill 37.

We were quite surprised because we knew the municipal officials around the province were very concerned about bill 37. They were concerned about many aspects of it. But what we weren't quite ready for was for the litany of developers that came through the door. You know, and again, as I said, many who actually sat on the working group –you know, and I recogni ze this wasn't under this current Minister of Munici pal Relations (Ms.

Clarke), but the former minister of municipal relations, you know, purported in the House in the same way that this minister does that they were working, you know, so closely with developers and so closely to reduce red tape and to make things more streamlined. And yet, we had these same developers and of - ficials from that community coming in and saying we aren't being listened to and we're actually very–quite, you know, quite upset with the result of the legislation and the bill that was before us at that point. So, you know, again, I'm going to take this minis- ter at her–at face value an

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	42-4-42b
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	42nd 4th hansardpdf 42b.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	14c2fb4ac66d457aaf4ba6e15956f09fa2d69e03

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