VOL. 3 PRELIMINARY UNEDITED TRANSCRIPT HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR THE PERIOD 3:00 p.m. - 6:00 p.m. WEDNESDAY, ~~RCH 4, 1981 No. 3 '"t . ' '"t

March 4, 1981 The House met at 3:00 P.M. Mr. Speaker in the Chair. MR. SPEAKER (Simms}: Tape No. 74 NM - 1 Order, please! Yesterday 1 as hon. members will recall 1 I reserved a ruling regarding the tabling of certain exhibits by the hon. member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary}. I would like to quote now from Beauchesne, page 117, paragraph 333, which states: "Speakers have consistently ruled that it is improper to produce exhibits of any sort in the Chamber. Thus during the flag debate of 1964, the display of competing designs was prohibited.

At other times boxes of cereal, detergent and milk powder have been ruled out of order." I also quote from the Commons debates of June 16th., 1969, page 10156 "I have to bring to the attention of the hon. member that it is not in accordance with the rules or traditions of the House of Commons for members to produce the type of exhibit which the hon. member has with him at the present time. This is not a recognized practice.

If we allowed hon. members to produce such exhibit& we would get ourselves involved in a position where perhaps all too often hon. members would want to table dead fish, herrings or red herrings, damp grain or wild oats. I therefore invite the hon. member to have his exhibi.t removed. "This is a precedent precisely on that point when one of my illustrious predecessors ruled that members could not bring into the House baskets of peaches and similar objects." It would appear, however, in this case that the exhibits proposed by the hon. member for LaPoile (Mr.

Neary} fall into two categories. 204 .. '"i .. , .. .. ..,

March 4, 1981 Tape No. 74 NM - 2 MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : 1. With regard to the "comic book" and the "Instruction Manuel", I rule that it is in order for the han. member to table those documents if he desires. 2. With regard to the game called "Newfoundland and Labrador Great Road Race", I rule that it is not in order for such an object to be tabled as an exhibit.

I have made the distinction based on the characteristic of the exhibit to be tabled; the former having been the characteristic of reading material while the latter exhibit falls into the category, in my opinion, of those exhibits ruled out of order in previous precedents. MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: Mr. Speaker. The han. merober for LaPoile. May I table the documents, Sir? Yes. MR. NEARY: There is readinq material inside that tube I had yesterday, Mr. Speaker. Mayher later on I might be able to table the reading part of it. I do not know if we can put the dice on the table or not. MR.

SPEAKER: The hon. member for Grand Bank. MR. THOMS: Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of personal privilege. Mr. Speaker, yesterday during the Question Period I asked two or three very serious questions to the Minister of Justice (Mr. Ottenheimer). Mr.

Speaker, I want to make it quite clear to my friends over my left shoulder that I am not blaming the reporter in any way, shape or form in connection with this matter, but during the Question Period, when the Minister of Justice was answering the questions, the Daily News this morning reported that the minister said words to this effect that, "I have not inteferred." And in the 2Li5 '·I ,, .. ''I

March 4, 1981 Tape No. 74 NM - 3 MR. THOMS : story it goes on to say that I am quoted as saying that I am not afraid, that I am not surprised he has not inteferred . That is correct . I have checked Hansard, Your Honour, but then they go on to say that this, and I quote, 1 "This is quite a serious matter s0 the hon. gentleman really should be quiet over there," was Mr. Ottenheirner 1 s rebuke.' I want to make it quite clear, ..... 206 .. , ''] ''1 ' ''I .. ''I

March 4, 1981 Tape 75 EC - 1 MR. THOMS: and I believe that the Minister cf Justice lMr. Ottenheimer) will confirm this, that his comment that this is quite a serious matter - and the reason I bring it up is because it makes it appear as i~ I was treating the matter lightly, which I was not - that that was not said by the Minister of Justice in reference to my questions or anything that I had -to say in the House yesterday afternoon, although Hansard, itself, of course, as well, c~~s not make it clear that the minister was not replying to a comment that I was making at the time. Maybe, Mr.

Speaker, the answer - as I say, I do not blame my friends over -my left shoulder here because although they can see the government side of this House, they cannot see the Opposition side of the House. It happened once before in connection with - and it is ironic because it happened in connection with a comment made by the then member of the House, f.lr. Simmons, in connection with the RCMP in Corner Brook, where I was attributed that statement. But I was going to suggest, Mr.

Speaker, that maybe the answer to it is if during the regular sittings of the House,that you orthis House would consider permitting the press to do their reporting from either the members' gallery or the Speaker's gallery. In that way they could not only hear the comments that were being made but they could see who was making these comments. MR. OTTENHETI-rER: MR • SPEAKER ( S irnrns) : MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker. The hon. the Minister of Justice.

If I could make a brief comment on it: Actually, it is quite right that yesterday I said something to the effect that you ·should be quiet, t~~s is a quite serious matter. I was saying that not to the hon. gentleman who asked the question, but with reference to one 207 .. , .. , .. ,

·.'J March 4, 1981 Tape 75 EC - 2 MR. OTTENHEIMER: of his han ~ colleagues who was speaking at the time, ta,lking to his desk mate or doing some such thing, and it made it difficult for me to hear and indeed to think. It was not with reference to the non. gentleman Is question, it was with reference to noise from another_hon. gentleman; no need for me to name him. MR. MARSSALL: Mr. . Speaker. MR :- SPEMER (Simms): The hon. the President of the Counc.:.l. ,MR. r-'ARSHALL: Mr.

Speaker, on the point l tseJ.f ., I would submit that · w·hat the han. gentleman has risen on in the House is really not a point of privilege. I know tha .t there are times when hon. members get up in· the House to make comment by way of personal e~lanation with respect to certain matters both inside and outside the House, but with the greatest respect to the . hon. member, r do f.eel that matters of this nature . should- be a little , bit more weighty than 20B ''1 .. , ''I ''1 ''1

March 4, 1981 Tape No. 76 SD - l MR. W. MARSHALL: what the han. gentleman brought up because I do not think the time of the House should be taken in points of privilege of that nature. With respect to the positioning of the press and the han. gentleman mentioning the fact that the press can see the government and cannot see the Opposition, I would just obser ve, Mr. Speaker, that that situation is not confined to the press. I think it is confined to most people in Newfoundland. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear. MR. SPEAKER (Simms): privilege - SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. SPEAKER: With respect to the point of Oh, oh!

Order, please! With respect to the point of privilege,the Speaker's role is to determine whether or not there is a prima facie case. In this particular instance, of course, there is no prima facie case• the member is really just taking the opportunity to clarify comments that were attributed to him in the press. That has happened before and our precedents are clear in that situation.

With respect to the second point or matter raised by the han. member, I might just add that just during the past year I had discussions with the executive members of the press gallery when that very point was discussed but it was determined that they would stay where they are for the present time at least. MR. THOMS: In that case they should be more careful. 209 .. .. 'I . ..

Ma·rch) 4• 1• 19 8;1. Tape No. 76 SD - 2 STAU'EMENTS BY M.INI.STERS The han. Minister of Labour and Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to the appointment of Ms. Le .eann Montgomery all aspects of and problems of women in the workforce. The Department of Labour and had: this ; matter under consideration for a number a! thorough. review on matters affecting women undertaken in orde .~ that the -~~ an determine if new programmes and services '~ ":I!'' ..o":!-3 .. '"'-' - ~L.~~ -- in the workforce should be introduced. Mr.

Speaker, I want to explain include an examination of all ;islation special reference to providing protection investigation of incidence of such. legislation; to examine of employment and promotion private sector; to establish organizations 1 man.agement organizations to determine the requirements for women in th.e workforce and to J?erform~nce of woments divisions and Manpower in other provinces. ~ am especially pleased that Ms. take on this assignment since she and training to undertake an important graduated with a Bachelor of in 19.77 and articled in the Province of Newfoundland Mr, Speake.;r, the study will ta .ke 210 ''I

March 4, 1981 Tape No. 76 SD - 3 .. , MR. J . DINN: approximately one year to complete ' during which tim.e Ms. Montgomery will be contacting the vario us organizatio ns and associations who wo.uld have an interest and input into the study . In the meantime she can be contacted at the Department of Labour and Manpower, Beothuck Building, Crosbie Place . AN HON. MEMBER: Bear , hear . .. , MR. SPEAKER (Simms): The hon. member for Terra Nova. ' '1 .. , •·; 211 .. ,

March 4, 1981 MR. FLIGHT: Mr. Speaker. MR.SPEAKER (Simms): Tape No. 77 EL - l We need mining inspectors appointed, Order, please! The hon. member for Terra Nova. MR.LUSH: Mr. Speaker, allow me to say that first of all we have no objection to the two things here, one the appointment of Miss Montgomery or the purpose for which she is appointed, If, of course, this is based on necessity, we certainly would not want to see women discriminated against in our society nor any other group, So as I have said before if this is based on necessity. Quite frankly it has not been brought to my attention that in the.

Newfoundland society that women have been discriminated against in any real way. As a matter of fact, the statement itself indicates the broadmindedness_of the govern­ ment where we have Miss Montgomery herself working in the De­ partment of Justice - SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. LUSH: - a lawyer, so,Mr. Speaker, on the principle, as I have said before, we have no objection with bring­ ing in legislation that is going to establish or that is working towards equality for groups that are discriminated against,if indeed they are discriminated against.

So we certainly agree with this if it comes out of necessity and is not merely a case of window dressing and how much this .particular thing is going to cost. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! ORAL QUESTIONS MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. SITRLING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.. In that connection I am sure that the six or seven thousand people who are unemployed would be glad to get a job. I have a question for 21 2 '·I ' I

March 4, 1981 Ta.pe No. 77 EL - 2 ~1R. STIRLING: the. Minister l!>f Education (L. Verge}, Mr. Speaker,and it comes as a result of concerns that have been expressed by any number of people alL l!>ver the Prl!>vince at school board l evels and at the teacher l~ve.l concerned about the serious situation facing people involving education . There is a very real concern because of the implementation of Grade XII that the furids that have been requested and desperately needed for primary and elementary schools may suffer .

The quest ion I would l ike to ask the minister is can she assure us that she has a commitment from her colleagues in Cabinet that these long outstanding re­ quests from the various school boards and from the Denorni11ational Education Committee that are requiied to bring up the standards of the primary and elementary schools, that these will be given a first priority and in fact will" be cl!>mmitted this year? 2 '13 .. , .. , ·, .. , .. , .. ,

March 4, 1981 Tape No. 78 DW - 1 MR. SPEAKER (Simms): The hon. the Min~ster of Education. MS. VERGE: Mr. Speaker, the implementation of the re-organized high school programme which has been care- fully planned over the past two and three years is proceeding very well. It is being received with enthusiasm by teachers, oarents and students throughout the Province. SOME HON . ME~BERS: _SOMR HON . M.EMBERS : MS. VERGE: Hear, hear! Oh, oh!

Resources in terms of teaching personnel and buildings as well as operating funds will be provided for the re-organized high school programme;bearing in mind that that involves the three final years of school starting at Grade X and continuing to Grade XII which will be an additional year in our school system. Offered for the first time three years from.now,the re-organi.zed high school 9rogramme beginning at the Grade X level will be phased in starting in September 1981. Additional students will be in our high schools not until three years from now when Grade XII is first taught.

The resources necessary are being provided over and above resources which will continue to be provided for the primary, elementar y and junior high school grades. There has been a conscious decision on the part of government in committing ourselves to this major improvement in our senior high school to provide extra funding to make that possible over and above funding for the ongoing pro- grammes from kindergarten to Grade XI. The teacher allocations for the next school year are evidence of this, Recent changes were made in the guidelines - SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! 21 4 "

March 4, 1981 Tape No. 78 OW - 2 MS. VERGE: governing teacher allocations recognizing, number one; the effect of declining enrollments which have continued for the past decade and also the need which will begin in a modest way in the next school year with the start of a re-organized high school programme. Those changes will result in 107 extra teaching positions over and above what would have been the case had we not made these changes. MR. SPEAKER (Simms): Order, please!

If I might interrupt the hon. minister, the question perhaps did require a rather lengthy answer and perhaps I should have ordered that· it be placed on the Order Paper.But questions as well as answers should be as brief as possible and I would ask the bon. minister to consider that. MR. L. STIRLING: MR. SPEAKER: of the Opposition. MR. L. STIRLING: A suppplementary, Mr. Speaker. A supplementary, the bon. Leader Mr.. Speaker, I think if you check Hansard you may see that there was a long

preamble but the question was very specific. The s~ecific question that was asked was not answered. The specific question was has the minister a commitment from her colleagues in Cabinet to make available to the DEC the money that they have already asked for in previous years to look after the very difficult situation they now have? The answer was not given and I was about to ask the S~eaker for direction. Is it necessary for me to interrupt when we are not getting an answer or does the Speaker do it on his own? MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

If I may interrupt, I have already given a ruling and brought it to the attention of both the minister and hon. members on both sides. I might point out that the rulings are not subject to debate during Question 215 ''I ''I ''1

.. March 4, 1981 Tape No. 78 DW - 3 MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : Period. If the hon. member has a supplementary,! would suggest he should ask it now. '·I ··, 216 ''I

II': March 4, 1981 MR. SPEAKER (SIMI-iS): MR. STIRLING: Tape 79 PK - 1 The hon. Leader of the Opposition. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would note· that the question was not answered. A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. One school that I have an intimate knowledge of is the Valleyfield School,which is a primary school, and requests have been made since 1978 for improvements to that school. The Fire Commissioner has just closed it in the last couple of weeks on one hour's notice. So that school is closed.and Ehe children are now housed in the basement of another school.

Would the minister indicate -~o1hether or not that is considered the kind of funding that she is now committed to to bring that kind of school up to standard? I know she cannot commit for a specific. school but the question is are emergency funds available for that kind of situation? And will she bring all schools in the primary and elementary level up to a standard this year? MR. SPEAKER: MS. VERGE: The hon. l-1iniste-r of Educat·ion. Mr. ,Spe·aker, over the· past decade government has provided to the DECs funding to make possible the construction of $200 million worth of schools throughout our Province.

There is a commitment from this government to the DECs to make available to them over the next number of years, as resources permit, enough funding for them to take care of all critically needed school construction in the Province. As for the needs for the reorganized high school programme,that is being examined and funding will be made available to them to take care of needs at the high school level for extra students - SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! 2.17 '·I ' 'I '"i

March 4, 1981 Tape 79 M,S. VERGE: expansion. - but more important for programme MR. STIRLING: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (SIMMS) : Order, please! Order, please! PK - 2 A point of order has been raised by the hon. Leader of the Opposition. I1R. STIRLING: Mr. Speaker, the minister is now ignoring your direction. She has now gone into an answer about Grade XII which was not asked. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. STIRLING: It was a specific question having to do with primary and elementary schools.

She has now ignored your direction and gone ·into a prepared answer on Grade XII. ~!R. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, on that point of order. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. President of the Council to the point of order. MR. MARSHALL: The hon. gentleman - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh~ MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. MARSHALL: - has raised a point, Mr. Speaker, a point of order. The hon. minister is answering the question put to her by the hon. gentleman.

The bon. gentleman can frame his questions as he wishes within the ambits of the rules of this House, and the hon. minister can answer the question within the same rules, an~ the hon. minister is doing exactly that. If he asks for a response he gets a response, but it is not for him, Mr. Speaker - SOME HON. MEMBERS Oh, oh! 2 '18 .i .. ,

March 4, 1981 Tape 79 PK - 3 MR. SPEAKER (SI~~S) : Order, please! MR . MARSHALL c - to dictate t .he nature or to give an assessment of the quality of the .answer. If he is dissatisfied with the answer , there is a procedure on tomorrow that he can debate it. MR. SPEAKER: With respect to the point of orde~ I would point out to hon. members Standing Order 3l(

g) which is quite clear. "A member who is not satisfied with th~ response to an oral question, etc. etc. may give notice that he intends to raise a subject matter of his question on the adjournment of the House.'' That rule I believe is understood by a~l hen. membe-rs. 219 '1 .. , .., .. , .,

March 4, 1981, Tape 80, Page 1 -- apb MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : The han. the member for LaPoile,followed by the han. the member for Trinity - Bay de Verde. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Justice. Would the minister inform the House under what authori.ty he: has had hand delivered to Canadian National in Moncton an ultimatum, or an order, or a summons to remove all slot machines from Canadian National ferries operating between Newfoundland and Nova Scotia? Under what authori.ty did the minister issue this ultimatum? MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Justice. MR. OTTENHEIMER: Mr.

Speake-r, I: am· not sure if you would call it an ultimatum or not an ultimatum. The criminal Code prohibits the use of slot machines. Han. members are probably aware we are- working on a system for the licencing of· g·ames of chance. Slot machines themselves, howeve·r, are not permitted to be licenced under the- Criminal Code;, and naturally if organizations within the: Province w-ill need to be licenced, then certainly we cannot make chalk of one and cheese of another, and an organization like CN presumably is required to follow the law as well as anybody else. MR. NEARY: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR.

SPEAKER: for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: A supplementary, the han. the member Mr. Speaker, the han. gentleman probably did not misunderstand my question but probably I did not make myself clear. My understanding, Mr. Speaker, is that these ships operate in international waters. MR. STAGG: MR. NEARY: Across the Gulf? Across the Gulf. 220 ''I

March 4, 1981, Tape 80, Page 2 -- apb SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. NEARY: SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. HOLLETT: MR. WHITE: MR. NEARY: Hear, hear! And the - Oh, oh! Six miles from shore. Twelve miles. The th~ee mile limit, as a matter of fact, the three mile limit is the one that is generally recognized - SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER(Simms): Order, please! MR. NEARY: -· throughout ~he world. Even if it was twelve·miles, they are still operating in international waters. These slot machines are not used when the ships are tied up in port. As a matter of fact, when they enter the three mile limit - SOME HON.

MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : Order, please! MR ·. NEARY: - the machines are shut down. So would the minister indicate under- what. authority the ultimatum has been delivered to CN, hand delivered by the R.C.M.P. a couple of days ago in Moncton, to have the machines removed from the ships before April 30th. of this year? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice. MR. OTTENHEI.MER: Mr . Speaker, the hon. gentleman uses the word 'ultimatum'. I suppose it is semantics, but I would call it an information, a direction.

I.t is the. advice of the Law Officers of the Crown that the operation of slot machines on those ships in question, and in the area in question, is illegal, is contrary to the Criminal Code, and we are requiring CN to comply with the law. Now, I can get more details on it for tomorrow. It is some weeks since the last time I reviewed it, but essentially what we are requiring is CN to operate within the law. 221 '·I

'- March 4, 1981 Tape 81 EC - 1 MR. NEARY: A final supplementary, ~x. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER ( Sinuns) : A final supplementary, the hon. the member for LaPoile. MR . NEARY: l-lould the hon. gentleman indicate if there is an opposite point of view from the Law Officers in the Department of Justice in Ottawa? Has this decision of the Province to have these machines removed from the C.N. coastal boats - not the coastal boats, the boats operating betw=~n Newfoundland and Nova Scotia - has that decision, that ultimatum, been challenged by the Justice Department or the Attorney General of Canada?

The minister probably could answer this for me too when he gets up. Talking about bringing in legislation for licencing, gambling in Newfoundland, what kind of gambling are we talking about? Would it include licencing of slot machines on the ferr±e•s• operatin .g· be ·tween Neva Scotia and Newfoundland? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice. MR. OTTENHEIMER: I will take the second one first. No, it would not. For example, the licencing system would not permit us to licence what is illegal per se, you know, that which is illegal, full stop, which may not even be licenced.

So licencing would not apply to slot machines, which 1in our opinion, is illegal per se. That is our

interpretation of the Criminal Code. The first question the hon. gentleman asked was whether the federal Department of Justice had a contrary opinion. Two comments I would make there. Number one, we have not asked the federal Department of Justice for their opinion. The administration of justice is a provincial responsibility. Obviously, there is a shared jurisdiction. The criminal law is federal, other law is provincial. I am not aware that the federal Department of Justice has expressed any opinion on it, certainly not to us. Now, they may have 222 '"I .. ,

March 4, 1981 Tape 81 EC - 2 MR. OTTENHEIMER: expressed an opinion to somebody else, that I do not know, but not to us. MR. NEARY: international law. They have. They said it is MR. OTTENHEIMER: I do know "":':": . .-, t C. N. 1 s solicitor says that we should not so prohibit. That is C.N. 1 s solicitor. Now that is a bit different from the federal Department of Justice ·, as the hon. gentleman is aware. So I am not aware that the federal Department of Justice h~= expressed any opinion, but certainly not to us. We do know that c·.

N. 1 s solicitor is endeavouring to argue the counter point and obviously, he will have his recourse, as do all people, for adjudication by the courts. Everybody has that right. MR. NEARY: Well, what happens when it goes to the courts? MR. OTTENHEIMER: The< · s·ooJ.ic±tor for c. N. ha;s; put up arguments against it,but I am not aware the federa ·l Department of Justice has expressed any opinion, certainly not to the Province . MR. THOMS: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Simms): I had indicated I would recognize the hon. the member for Trinity- Bay de Verde lMr. F. Rowel. If he wishes to yield. MR.

THOMS: The . hon. the member for Grand Bank. A supplementary to the Minister of Justice. As I understand the Criminal Code, gambling, per se, is illegal . What kinds of games of chance are you anticipating licencing under the new legislation? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice. MR. OTTENHEIMER: Under a contemplated licencing 223 'i

March 4, 1981 Tape No. 82 EL - 1 MR. OTTENHEIMER: system which I am sure the hon . gentleman will agree, you know, is fairly complex and we have never had one here but,you know, which is being worked on,which a lot of work has been done on 1 the Criminal Code does permit the licensing of games of chance for - I think I have the exact word­ ing here,'charitable or religious purposes or organizations' and, you know there is a fairly broad definition under charitable. MR. THOMS: Does it include bingo? !-1R.

OTTENtt~IMER: Matters of community - no, I am talking about the types of organizations first - matters of you know, community benefit and that type of thing is included under charity, you know, not a strict definition or wh ·at one might popularly think of as charity. Matters of community bene­ fit are included under there. The general purpose of such a system would be regulation so that bona fide religious and charitable organizations could participate in a lawful manner and others, merely for private profit,could not. And games such as bingo would be licensed.

There is no provision for licensing slot machines and certain other crames of chance as well. MR. NEARY: If they refuse to take them off the boats? MR. SPEAKER (Simms ): The hon . member for Trinity - Bay de Verde. MR. ROWE: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Education.

In vie\'l of the fact that the NTA feels that the success of the reorganized high school programme will be jeopardized because of lack of resources and completely in­ adequate teacher allocations for the three years of the revised high school programme, does the minister really feel that her comment that it was good the high school teachers would b~ chall­ enged and that it was good that they will have some extra work 224 .. , .,

March 4, 1981 Tape No. 82 EL - 2 MR. ROWE: and that they will face the chall- enge, does she really think that this kind of a statement, Mr. Speaker,from her will make the new high school programme a success in this Province? MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : MS. VERGE: The hon. the Minister of Education. Mr.Speaker, government has made its decision for teacher allocations for kindergarten through Grade XI for the next school year starting in September. I think that allotment provides very well for the needs of those grades and for the start of the Grade X level of the reorganized high school programme.

The changes in the regulat·ions made result in 107 extra teaching positions Province-wide than would have been the case otherwise. We are looking at spending over $200 million dollars on teachers' salaries next year for over 7,900 teachers, . - compared with the spending of only $46 million ten years ago. The allocations of teachers for two years from now and three years from now when the broadening of the curriculurnat the high school level and the extra students in Grade XII will be in our schools 1 have not yet been made.

So it is very premature for the NTA or the hon. member or anyone else to express predictions of doom and gloom about the reorgan­ ized high school programme. The information that I am getting from the field indicates that the people in the field are quite pleased with what has been allocated for next year. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear~ MR. F. ROWE: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. 225 •. I "'I •·t .. ,

March 4, 1981 MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : Trinity - Bay de Verde. MR. F. ROWE: Tape No. 83 SD - 1 A supplementary, the hon. member for The hon. minister did not answer the question,but in view of her public comment about extra work for teachers being good, does the hon. minister feel that teachers are being underworked in this Province at the present time? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Education. MS. VERGE: Mr. Speaker, my remark was prefaced by the statement that enough teachers have been allocated for the needs for the next school year.

And I think that teachers who are, after all, trained, educated and paid as professionals, welcome the challenge of change and improvement in the curriculum and that those teachers who are doing their job will welcome the challenge of the improvement in the curriculum at the high school level. It will mean extra work, extra preparation gearing up for new courses;, but I think that is good. MR. F. ROWE: Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Final supplementary, the hon. member for Trinity - Bay de Verde. MR. F. ROWE: Mr.

Speaker, in view of the fact that the minister has subjected the imfamous comic books to a piloting project in the Province and the 'Great Newfoundland Race Game' to pilot projects throughout the Province before introduction into the schools to see if they actually fit into the school system or not, does the minister understand why such a horrendous change in the high school programmes such as the revised high school programme with the addition of Grade XII had not itself been subjected to a pilot project before introduction to the schools in the Province? MR. HISCOCK: SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER: MS.

VERGE: Shame, shame. Hear, hear. The hon. Hiilister of Education. Mr. Speaker, the re-organized high 226 •·, ''I •-; '·I

March 4, 1981 Tape No. 83 SD - 2 MS . VERGE: school programme has been planned for more than two years. There have been teams and committees of teachers and administrators, representatives of the NTA, the Federation of School Boards, the DECs, the Parent Teacher Associations as well as the Education Department who have been intimately involved in working out the details. The change is largely an administrative one featuring a credit system which will begin next year. There will be a broadening of the curriculum, new courses added and then, of course, Grade XII added three years from now.

There is general approval and support for the concept and the plan that was finalized in the Fall 1 and I am confident that it will go ahead and work well in all the high schools of our Province. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. TULK: MR. SPEAKER (Simms): wishes to yield. de Verde. MR. F. ROWE: Hear, hear. I yield. The hon. member for · Fogo (Mr. Tulk) The hon. member for Tr .ini ty - Bay Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The minister indicated that the teachers are completely prepared for this new programme.

Would the minister care to indicate to the House what particular university courses teachers have taken, for example, from the faculty of education,orfromany of the other departments of the university, to train the teachers to teach the new programme and, in fact, the Grade XII programme? What in-service training programmes, if any, have been undertaken and what have,been ongoing up to this particular point and where have they been? Have the teachers, in fact, been trained formally - MR. THOMS: book? MR. F. ROWE: Did you have them look at the comic - in order to teach the new revised 227 'I .. , .. ,

March 4, 1981 Tape No. 83 SD - 3 MR. F. ROWE: high school programme, and if so, is it the university level or is it at a formalized in-service training type of a situation? 228 .. , '·I

"· March 4, 1981 MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : MS. VERGE: Tape No. 84 NM - 1 The hon. Minister of Education. Mr. Speaker, the change in the senior high school programme involves a greater time period, there will be an extra grade. Material will be spread over three years rather than two years, with grades ten, eleven and twelve rather than just ten and eleven. There will be new courses added, new programmes added gradually beginning two years from now. The qualifications to conduct. and teach these programmes are similar to those now required.

For example,what is needed to teach Chemistry in the reorganized high school programme is really no different from wha.t is· requil:ed. to teach Chemistry now. Teachers are,employed by school boards based on their academic qualifications, the courses, programmes, degrees they have received from universities and faculties of education.

Their employers, school boards, carry out continuing education or inservice training programmes and the thirty--five school boards across the Province for the past two, three, four months have been involved in inservice training for their administrators and high school teachers to gear up for the start of the reorganized high school programme in September. The Province is now, and probably will be for a number of years, short in a number of specialist areas. For example,at the moment we do not have enough teachers with specialties in Chemistry, Physics, French, Special Education, Home Economi~, Industrial Arts.

With the thrust that will be given to these courses with the reoganized high school programme we can expect to see more teachers either training or opting for these specialties in the first place. But basically the requirements to teach the reorganized high school programme are not much different from the requirements at the moment. 229 .. I '· I '·I

March 4, 1981 AN HON. MEMBER: MR. SPEAKER (Simm s) : MR. TULK: Tape No. 84 NM - 2 That was a good speech. The hon. member for Fogo. Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Forest, Resources and Lands (Mr. Power). It concerns a bill which he tabled in the House the other day, Bill 54. In view of the fact, Mr.

Speaker, that we have had two or three spray programmes in the Province, and as I under­ stand it the Cabinet now has the power to make a decision whether to spray or not to spray 1 then the ques -tion for the minister is what is the purpose for bringing this piece of legislation before the House at this time ·? MR. SPEARER: The . hon. Min-ister of Forest Resources aqd Lands. MR. POWER: Mr . Speaker, the purpose of introducing a bill in the House is so tha .t· you can have deba.te on the components of that bill and the reason for i.t, and certainly that will be done in due course. MR. TU!.K: MR.

SPEAKER: for Fogo. MR. TULK: A supplementary. A supplementary, the hon. member A typical non-answer, Mr. Speaker. A supplementary for the minister, is the minister now saying that he does not have the power to implement a spray programme in this Province? MR . WARREN: MR. SPEAXER: Resources and Lands. MR. POWER: Answer that one. The hon. Minister of Forest Mr . Speaker, the bill will be debated before the House in due course, as I have said. MR. TUL~: A final supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR • .SPE111CER: A final supplementary, the hon. mem!ler for Fogo. 230 .. , ''I

March 4, 1981 Tape No. 84 NM - 3 MR. TULK: A further supplementary just for the record; I do not expect the minister to answer it. Is the minister now telling the people of Newfoundland that there have been spray programmes carried out in ~his Province illegally without ~he proper legislation? MR. SPEAl<ER (Simms): The han. Minister of Forest ·, Resources and Lands. MR. POWER: MR. SPEAKER: The Capes. MR. HANCOCK: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAl<ER: Grand Bank. MR. THOMS: No. The han. member for St. Mary's- I yield on a supplementary, Yield. The han. member for A supplementary,·Mr. Speaker.

As I understand it at the present time, and previous to this, the decision whether to spray or not to spray was a decision of Cabinet, Cabinet has made this decision now to spray, but · the difference between that and this legislation is that it gives the minister the sole, absolute discretion of whether to spray - MR. MORGAN: MR. WARREN: MR. THOMS: Ask your question. Close your mouth. If the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan), Mr. Speaker, would let me ask the question and come down and meet the fishermen in my· dist ·rict - MR. ·SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. : THOMS: - who have been requesting it for months - MR. 'SPEAKER: MR. THOMS: MR. SP.EAKER: Order, please! ~en maybe he would do something. Order, please! The han. member has a supplementary; he has. just a couple of minutes. 231 .. , •·r

March 4, 1981 Tape No. 84 NM -4 MR. THOMS: Mr. Speaker, my question is, why does the minister consider it ne~essary that he should have full, absolute discrection in whether to spray or not to spray rather than leave it with the Cabinet? MR. SPEAKER(Sirnrns): MR. WARREN: MR. HANCOCK: MR. MARSHALL : Order, please! Sit down! Sit down,boy! They are wasting time, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker. 232 .. , '·1 ' 'I •. 1 '·I

March 4, 1981 Tape 85 EC - 1 MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : We are all wasting time here. There is too much noise. The hon. the President of the Council on a point of order. MR . MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, I would submit that a question of this nature is not at this time in order. This is a matter that is really on the Order Paper and will be debated, as the minister has indicated. As a matter of fact, it will be debated tomorrow.

I would refer Your Honour to Beauchesne, Page 132 of the 5th Edition, Paragraph 12, which says, "Questions should not anticipate a debate scheduled for the day, but should be reserved for the debate." And, you know, the reason is obvious. I mean, the Question Period is for the purpose of eliciting information from the ministry on matters of pressing concern and the Question Period should not be used for the purpose of asking questi.ons about matters that are going to come up in the normal Orders of the Day because it is repetition and unnecessary. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR.

THOMS: To the point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: To the point of order, the hon. the member for Grand Bank. MR. THOMS: I would suggest the reason that we are not getting the answer to the question is because the minister does not know the answer to the question. MR. SPEAKER: I will reserve my ruling on that particular point of order, I did not hear the question. questioning? MR. BENNETT: MR . SPEAKER: I-1R. BENNETT: We have a minute left. Any further Mr. Speaker. The hon. the member for St. Barbe. My question, Mr. Speaker, is to the Minister of Transportation (Mr. Brett). 2 3 3 . .. , ''I .,

March 4, 1981 Tape 85 EC - 2 MR. BENNETT: In view of the controversy surrounding the two airport concept in Western Newfoundland, I am wondering what communication, ~f any, the minister might be having at this time with the President of Eastern Provincial, if he has any communication at this time ongoing with an effort to resolve and retain the services of both airports? MR. SPEAKER (Simms): The hon. the Minister of Transportation. MR. BRETT: Mr. Speaker, I have had several telephone conversations with Mr. Stee.le.

I have had written correspondence with the gentleman, and but for the fog that you see outside, I probabLy would have been in Gander right now rather than here in the House. I had planned to meet the gentleman today but could n~t make it because of the fog so it will be tomorrow or whatever day I can get out of the city. MR. BENNETT : MR. SPEAKER: supplementary. MR. BENNETT: a.. SUP..Qlementary, Mr. Speaker. There is time for one final The han. the member for St. Barbe. Well, I have quite a few here so I will probably have to follow up tomorrow, Mr. Speaker.

Does the minister have any indication at this time what airport might be dropped from E.P.A. service? Or in reverse, which airport might be favoured by E.P.A. service? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation. MR. BRETT: No, Mr. Speaker. I do not know which airport the company would like to use. Of course, government contends that they should continue to use both. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER: expired. Hear, hear! Order, please! The time for Oral Questions has 234 ' I .. .., ''I

7 March 4, 1981 Tape 85 EC - 3 PRESENTING REPORTS BY STANDING AND SPECIAL COMMITTEES MR. SPEAKER (Simms): MR. MORGAN: The han. the Minister of Fisheries. Mr. Speaker, L wish to taPle the report submitted to government just a few days ago, or last week, by the Newfoundland Oceans Research and Development Corporation, known as NORDCO, on the Northern cod study. MR·. SPEAKER: MR. YOUNG: MR. SPEAKER: Works and Services. MR .. YOUNG: Further reports? Mr. Speaker. The hon. the Minister of Public Mr. Speaker, under

Section 21 of the c. A. Pippy Park Commission Act, I would lik.e to table the annual report. MR. SPEAKER: Further reports? MR. OTTENHEIMER: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Justice has a report. MR. OTTENHEIMER: Mr. Speaker, pursuant to

Section 18 of the Statutes and Subordinate Legislation Act, I would table the subordinate legislation which has been subordinated since November 21st. MR. SPEAKER: Bay d'Espoir. MR. ANDREWS : NOTICES OF MOTION The.hon. the member for Burgee- Mr. Speaker, r give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce the following Resolution.

WHEREAS the fishery is the largest employer in this Province of Newfoundland and Labrador; and

WHEREAS all the policy decisions affecting this major industry stem largely from one government source, namely,the federal 235 ' ·I •. I

March 4, 1981 Tape 85 EC - 4 MR. ANDREWS: government; and

WHEREAS this industry is so important to our people; THEREFORE

BE IT RESOLVED that this ~on. House most strongly urge the federal Government of Canada to share its responsibility in the management of .this most valuable resource. SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. SPEAKER (Simms): SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. SPEAI<ER: MR. CARTER: MR. SPEAKER: North. MR. CARTER: Hear, hear! Further notices? Oh, oh! Order, please! Order, please! Mr. Speaker. The han. the member for St. John's Mr ·. Speaker, I give notice that r will on tomorrow beg leave to p~esent the follow~ng Resolution.

WHEREAS honesty and integrity in government of the public service is essential to an upright and honest polit ·ical system; and

WHEREAS the present government has recognized the need to exemplify a high standard of conduct and morality in public affairs and government by proposing a number of initiatives including a separate office of the Comptroller General, a new Elections Act involving election expenses, the strengthening of Conflict of Interest Act to allow for the issuance of regulations governing the behaviour of ministers and the strengthing of the Civil Service Act governing the conduct of civil servants in conflict of interest situations; THEREFORE

BE IT RESOLVED this han. House commend the government for its efforts to strength .en the safeguards surrounding the public interest; and BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that this han. House supports these and other actions which may be proposed from time to t~me to protect the public interest and inspire greater confidence in government. SO~~ HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! 236 'I ., •• i

'I Ntarch 4, 1981 Tape No. 86 DW - 1 MR. SPEAKER (Simms): Any further notices? ANSWERS TO QUE STIONS FOR WHICH NOTICE HAS BEEN GIVEN MR. SPEAKER: The han. Minister of Labour and Manpower. ''I MR. J. DINN: Mr. Speaker, I would like to respond to a question which was raised by the Opposition yesterday with respect to a shortage of staff in the Mines Inspection Unit in the Department of Labour and Man- power . I believe it was alleged that we have only one inspector in the divis ·ion at the present t·ime. MR. F. STAGG: That is what he said. MR. J. DINN: I would like to correct that impression, Mr.

Speaker, and to· inform the House ·that · while we do have vacancies in the · staff of the. Mines Inspection Unit, in fact we s.till have three Mines Inspection engineers, two in St. John's ~nd one in Labra- dor; Roger March, Chief Inspector located in St. ,Tol-J.n' e;. Jim Archibald,located in St. John's, and Slavko Cocivic, a regional Mines Inspection engineer at Labrador . In addition to the three Mines Inspection engineers, .., we have two Mines and Inspection technicians, one in Labra- dor and one in St. John's . Mr.

Speaker, to allay any fears which the department places on this very important activity, I would like to inform the House that about 1980 we sought and received approval to create an additional position of Mines Inspector. We invited applications both provincially and nationally for a vacant position through the normal channels and on three separate occasions failed to receive any qualified ., applicants. In fact, the last time it was advertised nobody applied. MR. FLIGHT: Why? Why? 237

March 4, 1981 Tape No. 86 DW - 2 MR. J. DINN: To compound the diff-icnlti~" •·•ith staffing during 1980,two of the inspectors resigned to take up positions in the Department of Mines and Energy. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER (Simms): · MR. J. DINN: Oh, oh! Order, please! Mr. Speaker, the Public Service Commission is currently conducting recruitment action to fill the three vacant positions of Mines Inspection Engi­ nee ·r. We are now advertising again both provincially and nationally. Mr. Speaker, al .though there are vacancie ·s in the sta ·ff of our Mines ·..

Inspection Unit, no problems have been encountered up to this time. The two Mines Inspection engineers · located in St. John's as well as the one located in Labrador West are available at any time for deployment to any mining area where a:ny difficulty or dnngerous practice may be perceived. SOME HON. MEJioi.BERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: ~ny further Answers to Questions? PRESENTING PETITIONS MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Eagle River. MR. E. HISCOCK: Mr. Speaker, I rise to present a petition on behalf of the residents of Red Bay, Labrador in the Straits of Labrador. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR.

SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please! Periodically there are points that are raised and the Chair is asked to rule on them and it is very difficult when members are carrying on loud con­ versations across the House. I would ask them to dispense with that. The bon. member for Eagle River. 238 ., .. I

~~- March 4, 1981 Tape No. 86 DW - 3 MR. E. HISCOCK: Mr. Speaker, I rise to present a petition on behalf of the residents of Red Bay in the Straits of Labrador from L'Anse au Clair to. Red Bay. This is the community that is sixty miles down from the border of Quebec. It is also the site of the Basques whaling ship that has been found there as well as a lucrative fishing industry. Red Bay,particularly because of the twisting road from Pinware to Red Bay, is often cut off from other parts of Labrador - L'Anse au Loup, l"'est St. Modeste, Pinware area.

For example, last Fall they were cut off for two or three days, Last year they were blocked with snow for over a week or more 1 and as a result of washouts· in the Spring and in the Fall and be­ cause of the snowstorms. So therefore they do not have a nurse in Red Bay and it is very. important that the re-con­ struction of the road takes place in the Straits area from L'Anse au Clair to Red Bay.· The people in Red Bay also feel that if this road is going to be sta·rted it should be started from both ends. The· worst part of the road is from Pinware to Red Bay.

I support this petition and I hope that the Minister of Transportation (~x. Brett) and the government , who are responsible for deciding where the road will start from 1 will also support this petition. These people, the 104 people who have.signed this petitior are calling upon the government and saying, 'Whereas we, the residents of Red Bay in the Straits of Labrador from L'Anse au Clair to Red Bay,call upon the provincial and federal govern­ ments to out aside their political differences and sit down a.nd negotiate and sign the coastal Labrador DREE agreement.

We, the residents of Southern Labrador, feel that we have been used as a political football bebreen both governments and we want an end to it. We have waiting over three years for the signing of this agreement and we cannot go another 239 ' 'I .. , .. ·-,

'T March 4, 198 1 Tape No. 86 DW - 4 MR. E. HISCOCK: Spring without having the road re-constructed and paved:' Mr. Speak~r, it is extremely important that this agreement be signed. The Premier mentioned yesterday that he was willing to go and mee ·t wi:th the Minister of DREE (Mr. De Bane-) at any time, th:at he proposed March 13th. to be trying t~get a meeting for But again, neither 240 I I ''1 •·. ''1

l!. March 4, 1981, Tape 87, Page 1 -- apb MR. HISCOCK: the Premier, nor the government has stated publicly that they are willing to accept the terms of the agree .ment laid down by the federal government, that the federal and the provincial governments have - MR. SPEAKER(Simms): Order, please! Order, please! MR. HISCOCK: - sat down and negotiated. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. membe ·r is beginning to enter into debate. He should confine himse·lf to the prayer of the petition only, and the number of signatures attached to it. MR. H:I.SCOCK: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Hope -fuLly, Mr.

Speaker, this agreement will be signed and both governments will s ~ t down face to fape and negotiate the terms of the agreement and sign it so that we can ge .t this road constructed, from L'Anse au Clair to Red . Bay, and have a start in Red Bay going to L!Anse au Clair. Thank you. MR. SPEAKER: The bon. the· Minister of· Transportation. MR. BRETT: Mr. Speaker, I rise in support of the petition presented by the bon. member on behalf of the residents of Red Bay. If I had a copy of yesterday's Hansard,I suppos!'!

I could read it and read what the Premier said, because I can only repeat what the Premier said yesterday. There is no question that that is the worst section. That

section from Pinware to Red Bay, that is the worst

section of the Trans Labrador Highway, and it is the

section that is obviousfy going to cost the most money. MR. HISCOCK: Are you going to start in Red Bay? 241 •..

March 3, 1981, Tape 87, Page 2 -- apb MR. BRETT: There is no decision made by the department, by my department, where we would start. I do not know if we will .start in the middle and work both ways, or if we will start on the Blanc Sablan end, or Red Bay. And there is no decision because we do not have an agreement with the federal gove~nment. I have never seen any agreement. I have heard rumou~s that the federal government are making an offer, and the rumours that I have heard, the . offer is a good one, and I have no doubt that the government will accept it. We have been · ready.

The petition presented today, and the one presented yesterday, indicated that these people have been waiting for three ye ,ars ,. That is true. And so has the provincial government been waiting for three yea~s. We have had our share of the money in place and we are ready to start tomorrow morning, just . as soon as we get the agreement ·. It is a very costly project and it would be - if the pr.ovincial government we ,re to do that job on its own, then it would probably take ten or fifteen years to do it. So, obviously, we must have an agreement with the federal government.

If we make any start at all, then, as the hon. member knows, we will never get an agreement. I support the petition. ..And I can assure the hen. member that we have not: been using the residents up there as a political football, we have been ready and willing to go and we still are. MR. SPEAKER(Sirnms): The hon. the Lead~r of the Opposition. MR. STIRLING: Mr. Speaker, I cannot let that pass without commenting and supporting the petition. This government that is so 242 .. , .. .. , .. ,

March 4, 1981, Tape 87, Page 3 -- apb MR. STIRLING: concerned about our rights under the constitution, that road is completely a provincial responsibility-under the old constitution, under the new consti .tution. And I heard this minister, on radio, saying that he would not agree to a fifty/fifty contribution on that road, something that is a 100 per­ cent provincial responsibility under the constitution. Thi.s government that is so concerned about protecting their interes.ts under the constitution. and getting their concerns under the constitut·ion, it is the responsibility of this Province to do that job. MR.

WARREN: It is a political football. MR. SPE-AKER(S:imms·): Order, p:l:ease·! MR. STIRLING: The responsibility of this government is to do that road. MR. WARREN: Right on ! MR. STIRLING: The responsibility is to make sure that the people on the Labrador coast are treated the same as the people in the ministe·r 's own district, or any other part of the Island. And it is a cop-out, Mr. Speaker. You cannot have it both ways. The prayer of the petition is for the government to get on with the job. Now, they have refused a fifty/fifty kind of . arrangement. Mr.

Speaker, to this moment this minister has taken the same position on this road as he has on the causeway in my own district. He has not stated a dollar sum that they are prepared to put into that road. They have not publicly staked - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAI<ER: Order, please~ MR. STIRLING: And I would yield to allow the minister to give a dollar figure. I yield, right now. 243 '·t .. ,

l<!arch- 4, 1981, Tape 87, Page 4 -- a.pb MR. BRE .TT: Speaker. MR. SPEAKER(Simms): Tran ·spertation. S:OME" HeN. ME!MBERS :: MR'. Sl!EAKER.:. MR. BRETT: , A point of order, Mr. The han.. the Minister of Oh, oh.! Ol!der, pil.e~se,~ I am net suggestblg that the hon. the member is misleading the House, or that the hon. member is lying, I am not suggest+ng anything of ' that . natUra, but the hQn. member is. aware of: a· mee:ting· in his . office with the ME who represents his . distric :t:, and the . hon. member. 244 ''1 ''1 ''1 ''1 ''1

March 4, 1981 Tape 88 PK - 1 MR. BRETT: is also aware that very shortly after that meeting a letter was forwarded to Ottawa, and included in that letter were dollars and cents outlining to Mr. Pepin, the federal minister, ;xactly where we stood, what we would accept. The offer was put forward by the M.P. for that area . And a letter has gone out, and the han. member knows it. So I would suggest that the hon . member to be very careful what he is saying. SOME HON. ~1EMBERS : Oh, oh! i~. SPEAKER (SIMMS): Order, please!

I beiieve have heard enough to know that it _ is not a point of order, and I am ready to rule that it is not a point of order ; It is obviously a difference ... of opinion. ''I It also points out my own concern, that during the presenting of @etitions no debate is allowed. And it appears that yesterday and again today there has been a fair bit of debate that should not have been permitted. And I would remind han . members of this particular matter that is being discussed.

There is a Private Member's motion on the Order Paper that will allow all han. members to debate that matter when it comes up later on in the session. I would ask han. members speaking to petitions again to confine themselves to the prayer of the petit- ion and the tnumber of signatures attached. MR. STIRLING: SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER: The han. Leader of the Opposition. A point of privilege, Mr .. Speaker. Oh, oh! Does the han. Leader wish to forego his time now, because it comes out of his time in response to the petition?

Do you wish to do that or present your point of privilege; It is up to yourself 245 .

March 4, 1980 Tape 88 PK - 2 MR. STIRLING : Mr. Speaker, I will use the opportunity now given me because I had yielded to the minister to deal with that specific case, and he decided to deal with the point of order. Mr. Speaker, dealing with this specific petition and supporting the specific petition,the minister has not stood on his feet in this House and told us specifically how many dollars he is prepared to put up in support of that specific petit ·ion. MR . WARREN: That highway, that highway. Right on. MR. STIRLING: While I am here, Mr.

Speaker, I would suggest that the minister stop pd.aying games and tha .t he speaks strictly to the point of the petition which asks that a decision be made and a commitment be made.- And what the minister has said is we are not expecting to get any money, so we have not made any coiii!ll"i.tment about how we are going to start it, when we are going to start it. If they had taken the ten years to .build what he has been asked, they would not be in this state now of saying we have to wait for Ottawa. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear: MR. SPEAKER (SIMMS) : The hon. President of the Council on a point of order? MR.

MARSHALL: No, on tbe p:Jint of privilege that the han. rrerrber- MR. SPEAKER: SOME HON. MEMBERS: SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. SPEAKER: SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR- SPEAKER: A point 'of privil~ge '? There is no point of privilege. Oh, oh! Order, please: Order, please: Oh, oh! Order, please: It was not my understanding that the bon. Leader of the Opposition was on a point of privilege,but rather he was concluding his remarks. 246 .. ,

''t March 4, 1981 Tape 88 PK - 3 MR. MARSHALL: I thought he was speaking, Mr. Speaker, on a point of privilege, but I rise now on a point of order- ~tben. MR. SPEAKER (SIMMS) : A point of order, the hon. President of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: I will just briefly state the point ''I of order,that Your Honour made a ruling with respect to the debate on petitions. And after Your Honour made the ruling, I say with respect with to the Leader of the Opposition 1 that he continued on in the same refrain on this matter, not- SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR.

MARSHALL: What I am saying is that I am rising on the point of order what the ~on, gentleman said. -The hon. gentleman then continued on in exactly the same bent and exactly the same ~ine. And I suggest·, Mr. Speaker, that the House cannot really revolve or the House cannot work pro- per1y if when Your Honour makes a ruling, ¥our Honour's ruling is either flagrantly ignored or challenged. And this is in effect what- I know·the hon. gentleman was not intending to do it, but that is the effect of what he has done. ··, MR.

SPEAKER: With respect to the point of order, I would like to take it as notice and give some comments on it perhaps at tomorrow's sitting , because it is a matter that is concerning me as well. Any further petitions? MR. STIRLING: Mr. Speaker, on a point of privilege now, so that the President can say something. The Minister of Transportation (Mr. Brett) on a point of order came dangerously close- and you will have to check Hansard to find out if he was 247

,;," March 4, 1981 Tape 88 MR. STIRLING: suggesting or implying that I was misleading. Now I would challenge, Mr. Speaker, to clear up this question of privilege, that -the minis~er actually table the letter that he referred to, because I cannot prove anything unless he tables the letter. And <:you PK - 4 will find '"hen he tables the letter that he did not specify what his government would put up.

What he said in the letter was that•we would look favourably on such a response from the federal government.• They have not in that le .tter specifically said that this Province is prepared to spend X number of dollars. And he has suggested, because he has the letter, Mr. Speaker., that I was either misleading or- MR. FLIGHT: Lying. MR. STIRLING: - maybe lying. I do not have t.he letter, so on a point of privilege I would challenge the minister to table the letter so that all members will then be able to judge. MR.

SPEAKER (SIMMS): With the greatest of respect, i~ is not a point of privilege to request that a letter be tabled,and I would rule again that in this case there is no prima facie case but a difference of. opinion . ..... ~, ..... Also it is four o·''clock· arrd standing Order 53 indicates that the Chair must call the Orders of the Day. ORDERS OF THE DAY So this being Private Member's Day and under Standing Order 53 I call motion No. 48 moved by the hon. member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary).

WHEREAS the cost of living in Newfoundland and Labrador is the highest in Canada and continues to rise; AND

WHEREAS inflation and the ever increasing cost of living is causing great torment, frustration and mental and physical strain on the citizens of Newfoundland and 'Labrador; and 24B .. .. ,

March 4, 1981 Tape No. 89 EL - 1 MR. SPFA.~ER (Simms) :

WHEREAS most of the factors involved in determining the cost of living fall under Provincial jurisdiction;

BE IT RESOLVED that thi~ House set up a Select Committee to ex­ amine into all aspects of inflation and prepare recommendations to how the Government should proceed to cope with these matters. The hon. member for LaPoile. Sm1E HON. ME~.BERS : Hear, hear! MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I hope in the twenty minutes, the time alloted to me in this debate,.- twenty minutes, by the way, is ·not long enough to do justice to the number one problem in Newfoundland today, namely the high cost of l.iving and inflation. You would need, Mr.

Speaker, more than twenty minutes to talk about the reasons and make recommendations to help cope with the high cost of Living in this Province,so I will try to do the best I can in the twenty minutes that I have at my disposal and I hope to convince hon. members on both sides of the House to vote for this resolution because as I said, Mr. Speake·r, inflation and the high cost of living is the greatest curse in our society today. It is the biggest problem confronting the people of Newfoundland and Labrador today. It is the number one problem in the nation and in this Province.

And, Mr.Speaker, the disappointing part of it is thatthe Throne Speech which out- lined government's polic~ made no reference wha~soever to the high cost of living in r.his Province-the high~st cos~, the high~st inflation rate in ~he wh.ole of Canada. Last year, Mr. Sneaker 1 last year it cost Newfoundland~rs ~o buy a nutritious food basketfor a family of four- in this Province, it cost $80.31 for a family of four to buy a nutritious food basket- .. I might ~oint out, 249 .. .. .. , .. .. ..,

.... March 4, 1981 Taoe No. 89 EL - 2 MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, that is just for food alone. And that is more ~han some of the staff at the College of TradP-s and Technology e?rn, that is more ~han they earn. If they took their whole paycheque and spent it on this nutritious food basket that cost $80.31 in this Province,they would not be able to buy one other thing . And that is why, Mr. Speaker, today I am wearing the button of NAPE, the NAPE button and I am proud to wear it. SOME HON. MEMBERS: <:~ar, hear! MR. NEARY: The inflation rate, the inflation rate in this Province, Mr.

Speaker, in 1980 was 11.7 per cent, the highest in Canada. In Vancouver, Mr. Speaker, in Vancouver the rate of inflation was 9.4 per cent, in Edmonton it was 10.1 per cent, Winnipeg, 10.0 per cent, in Toronto 10.1 per cent, in Montreal 10.3 per cent·, in Halifax 10.7 per cent and in St. John's Newfoundland 11.7 per cent, the highest in the nation. At least the strikers, at least the employeees in the Public Service should be given the equivalent of the rate of inflation.

What they have been offered is almost three percentage points-it is more; it is 3.7 percentage points below the rate of inflation in this Province and they have my sympathy and I pray to God that they will be able to hold out until they win the battle. Mr. Speaker, there are a number of reasons why the cost of living is high in Newfoundland. Back in 1974, Beryl Plumtree wrote a report called The Food Prices Review Board Report. It was presented to the Provincial Government in 1974, to the Tory Government 1 and it has been put on the shelf ever since in Confederation Building to gather dust.

Not one of the recommendations - yes, I am sorry, one of the recommendations 250 .. ... ··,

March 4 , 198 1 Tape No . 89 EL - 3 MR. NEARY: was carried out, and then the government. backed off of it. One of the recommendations of this report was to set up a separate department of Consumer Affairs in this· Prov­ ince. The government did it, put a we·ak-kneed minister in charge of the department and t:hen, Mr. Speaker, lo and behold,last year dismantled the department and tossed the Department of Consumer Affairs in with another government dep·artment. What· a backward step, Mr. Speak.er. That will show you how interested they are in the problems of the consumers of th·is Province.

All they know how to talk about is oil and gas, and in the process o.f· tal.king about thiS: oil and gas., Mr. Speaker·, th.ey have compounded the problent' of inflation in this Province becaus·e their oil boom syndrome has driven up the cost of living in Newfoundland and. Labrador-.· .. it was high enough as it was.but since they started all 251 •. 1 •. .. , • • j

March 4, 1981, Tape 90, Page 1 -- apb MR. NEARY: their chaw about oil and gas, rents have gone up, the cost of homes has gone up, the cost of living has gone up. And if you do not believe me, Mr. Speaker, I can tell the House -that only today I had a ca -ll from the occupants, from the tenants down in Regency Towers, down here at the Boulevard. And I had a call last week from another group of tenants in Green 'i'lood Trailer Court. Regency Towers,which is owned by the former Tory bagman down here at the Boulevard,sent an ultimatum today to his tenants to vacate the premises - eighty people - eighty-one, I think.

There are more than eighty people. I think there are over ed..g ,hty tenants in .. tha.t apartment building, some have two room apartments, some have one room apartments. And they have been orde:~;ed out. And the same thing has happened at Green Wood T.railer Court. The people in there have been told they are going to have to pay more rent, a higher rental on their land, and if the¥. do not like it, get out! And you know, Mr. Speaker, what is causing this is the oil boom syndrome, all the chaw this crowd have about: oil. The mainland moneybags·, the speculators and the moneybags - MR.

MORGAN: You hate fish,anyway. MR. NEARY: Ah, they are not interested in fish, only oil. The mainland speculators, and the moneybags are coming into Newfoundland and buying up these premises, buying up these buildings, these apartment buildings, buying them up and then they are turning around and increasing the rents and ordering the tenants out. And down here at Regency Towers, Mr. Speaker, the tenants are mostly senior citizens. And I say shame on the government if they allow this to happen. 252 ''I

March 4, 1981, Tape 90, Page 2 -- apb MR. NEARY: That is not the only case. These buildings, these apartment buildings are trading hands just like you would change hands in a bridge game. I think the government should put a freeze on rentals in this city, put a freeze on until things stabilize and level off. So that is one of the reasons why we have. such a high increase in the cost of living in this Province, Mr. Speaker, it is all the chaw and all the talk and all the lip about oil. Now, Mr:. Speaker·, I want to congratulate the Government of Canada.

I want. to cdng.:t:atulate the Gove·:tnment of Canada for the brave decis·ion that they have taken in two ins>t"ances within the last week. The Government of Canada., wh_ich is condemned by the Tories in this Province, just told the people of Canada and the people of New-foundland tha.t they are going to have an investigation under the Combines Act into the big oil companies for price fixing. The Government of Canada have evidence.

And I have been saying that, and we have been saying that in this House for the last fifteen years, that the big oil companies were getting together in their board­ rooms, and in hotel rooms, and they were fixing the­ price of heating oil and gasoline and fuel. Now the federal government, Mr.

Speaker, have taken the bull by the horns and I want to congratulate them publicly today for this brave step that they have taken to take on the giants of the world, to take on the oil companies that have defeated governments in other parts of the world, take on the big oil companies and have them investigated for price fixing. A step in the right direction to try to do something about the high cost of living. And I would also like to congratulate, Mr. Speaker, the Government of Canada for 253 .. .. , •·. ..

March 4, 1981, Tape 90, Page 3 -- apb MR. NEARY: taking on Alberta. There is a question that is misunderstood. MR . ~10RGAN: (Inaudible) months ago. MR. NEARY: Ah, listen to the minister. Let me say this to the Min.is.ter of' Fisheries (Mr.Morgan·), Mr. Speaker, that this is the only part of the world, the only o_il producing country in the world where you have a To:ry government·. here in this Province 254 .. ••; .,

,. March 4, 1981 Tape No. 91 SD - 1 MR. S. NEARY: that wants Alberta to charge world prices for its oil, to charge Canadians world prices for its oil. In every oil producing country in the world there are two prices for oil~ one for export and one for the residents of that country. But our Tory government here and Mr. Lougheed want to charge Canadians world prices,and if he was allowed to do that the cost yesterday that went on the pumps would be a lot more than two cents.

Again, I have to congratulate the Gove -rnment of Canada for trying to hold down the price of heat ·ing fuel, gasoline and fuel in this country. And what does this crowd here do? Do they come to the rescue of the consume-r in this Province? No, Mr. Speaker, they sock it to them on ever increasing electricity rates and they support Mr.- Lougheed in his attempt to charge consumers in this Province world prices, the same price to:Newfoundlanders · as you charge for exporting a gallon of oil and, Mr. S"peake,r, that is not good enough.

And I am surprised the press has not picked that . up and nat allowed the Tories in this Province to muddy up • the water because that is the truth of it, that is the long and short of it. And another congratulations I want to fling out today, Mr. Speaker, is · to the · longshoremen in the city of St. John's who are struggling for survival down there on the waterfront - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear. MR.

NEARY: - who get no support from this Tory government, who are trying to get a refrigerated warehouse, a distribution centre established down here on the Finger Pier in Building No. 1, a warehouse that could hold per~shables to be distributed to stores and distributors around this part of Newfoundland, being completely ignored by the Tory government of this Province. I want to congratulate CN - MR. ANDREWS: Why are you not in Ottawa? 255 .. r ''I .. , ,,

l:.r March 4, 1981 Tape No. 91 so - 2 MR. S. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I want to congratulate Canadian National on taking the gigantic step of getting into containerizat·ion, of getting into the container business in this Province. Yesterday, I understand, a meeting was he1d with the officials of the provincial government, CN came down to tell the provincial government · - not to ask them, to tell them - that they are getting into containerization. They are trying to re-vitalize the railway and they are going to bring containers across to Port aux Basque, MR. MORGAN: They are forcing the companies to go bankrupt. MR.

NEARY: s~ipping companies? MR. MORGAN: Ah 1 force what companies·? The The private sector. MR. NEARY: Oh, listen to this, Mr. Speaker, listen to Newfoundland shipping's buddy, listen to Clarke Steamship's shipping buddy, listen to Crosbie's shipping buddy, who just merged recently and formed a monopoly in this Province so they can sock it further to the consumer and drive up the cost of living in this Province, got together, merged to try to grab the subsidy that was going to Newfoundland Steamship · and to Clarke Steamship. Crosbie's wanted to get aboard the bandwagon so the three companies have merged, Mr.

Speaker, to form a monopoly: And what does this government do about it? What did John Crosbie do about it - old chaw mouth up in Ottawa, bully boy? What did he do about it? What did this crowd here do about it? Oh, no, they are their buddies, they are not going to touch that ·, they are not going to have anything to say about that. They are going to allow the monopoly to proceed so that these three companies can get together and sock it to the consumer of this Province. And now CN is going to try to put an end to that. CN are going to try to re-vitalize the railway and they are going to bring in 256 .. , ''I ''1

J March 4, 1981 Tape No. 91 so - 3 MR. NEARY: containers and bring them · across the Gulf in what they call massies and put them aboard - MR. MORGAN: They are forcing them into bankruptcy. MR. NEARY: - CN Rail, put them aboard and drop them off at Bishop Falls, Corner Brook and St. John's. They will be load ed on with cranes in Port aux Basques, off load ed with mobile cranes at these centres that I just ment ioned. And thi s has not even been announced yet , Mr. Speaker. The Minister of Transportation (Mr .

Brett) ~ who is sitting on this; who knows that this is good news from Ottawa- ::lid not come into the House today and make a Minis terial Statement about that even though a meeting was held in his office yesterday with his officials - and I am announcing it today. 257 ., •· "'J •·

March 4, 1981 Tape No. 92 NM - 1 MR. NEARY: And they will be dropping off these containers, they will be using cranes to drop off these containers and I hope, Mr. Speaker, that that will lead to a downward trend in the cost of li.ving in this Province. But, Mr. Speaker, let me say this, I only have about three or four minutes left, let me say this, Mr. Speaker, I wish I had more time to talk on this subject. ~IR . STIRLING: By leave ·.. By leave. MR.

NEARY: But I would say the reason that people are taking so many tranquilizers today, the reason tha .t we have so much sickness today, the reason we have so much crima today, the reason we have s·o many family break:-ups today, is because people are unable to cope with the high cost of living and inflation in this Province. AN HON. MEMBER: Hear, hear! MR. NEARY: And this government does not think it worth its while, they do not think it worth their while, Mr. Speaker, to even mention it in the Throne Speech.

They are so preoccupied with oil and gas, they are so preoccupied with the constitution-and you cannot put that in the oven for Sunday dinner~ and by the end of this year, by Christmas the Premier of this Province, along with six other premiers of Canada, or seven other premiers of Canada, w-ill regret that he ever heard anything about a constitution. It will be embarrassing for him to bring it up~ And instead of wasting money on extravagance 'and waste, on comic books, and lawyers and the likes of what we heard today from the Minister of Labourand Manpower (Mr.

Dinn) .,-another lawyer to have an enquiry into women in the work force - instead of wasting their money on that sort of thing, Mr. Speaker, on extravagance and waste they should be trying to do something about the high cost of living 258 ''I

March 4, 1981 Tape No. 92 NM - 2 MR. NEARY: in this Province and help out the poor old public servants SOME HON. l.fEMBERS: Heart 'hear! MR. NEARY: --by using the countervailing savings that they would save instead of implementing these ridiculous programmes and pay the civil servants over in the College of Trades and down at the Workmen's Compensation Board a living wage . SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR ~ SPEAKER (Butt) : SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. MARSHALL: Hear, hear! The bon. President of the Council. Hea·r, hear! Mr.

Speaker, the bon. member is amusing, as he usua ,lly is ,but it does not really, in effect, have any real impact on the problem at hand. Now the resolution before the House, which is a resolution that brings out very realistic concerns, is the effect of inflation and it asks for a select commi .ttee to examine into a·ll aspects of inflation and prepare recommendations as to how the government should proceed to cope with these matters. Now, Mr. Speaker, if there is a select committee of this House you have a select committee for a purpose.

You have a select committee to look into the causes of inflation, and also it would be presumed that this select committee should make certain recommendations to this government for this government to take such steps as may be possible to curb the high inflation and the high cost of living. Now in order for the committee to make recommendations to this government it is obviously pointless for the committee to make any recommendations unless the government had it within its power to do something and to act on the recommendations that were made by the select committee.

And in this, even though the resolutionraises matters that are of concern and valid concerns for the people, realistic concerns for the people of this Province, the instrument of a select committee 1 259 ''I ''I

March 4, 1981 Tape No. 92 NM - 3 MR. MARSHALL: which p;x:-esupposes that this Province :Qas the power to act in these matters,is not really effective. The hon. gentleman says in his res0lution, he says in his resolutions, and this is where he brings in the political aspect of it but where at the same time it points out the falacy of the resolution itself, he says, ..

Whereas most of the factors involved in determining the cost of living fall under provincial j~isdiction·." Now . let me say, Mr. Speaker, that the cause of inflation in this coUntry and in this Province, you have to ask" yo'\].rself who has - what are the causes of in-flation:, and which g0vernment is the mos.t appropriate instrwnent and has the power to deal with it? Now one of the , obviaus causes of inflation in the country and in this Province is the supply of money, is the monetary supply. If thel;'e is more money in circulation, this is one of the principle and prime factors in the cost of good ·s and services 260 "'1 .. "'1 ''1 •· ..

March 4, 1981 Tape 93 EC - 1 MR. MARSHALL: and in the prices. And there is no doubt as to who has jurisdiction with respect to the supply of money, that is, the federal government. One of the prime causes of inflation in this country over_the past number of years has been that in order to fund the gigantic governmental expenditures that have been made for the purpose of perpetrating the present federal government in power,that the federal government has resorted to its powc= to increase the supply of money. MR. BARRY: Did not the Auditor General say that spending was out of control? MR.

MARSHALL: The Auditor General has time af.ter time, as the hon. minister has reminded me, said that their spending has been out of control. And the spending has been out of control - let us not look at it for any altruistic reasons or that - the spending has been out of control in order to keep them in power. And the way in which they have been able to spend, one of the machineries has been increasing the supply of money. What are other factors besides the supply of money? What about interest rates? The hon. gentleman has mentioned about the cost of housing.

There is no doubt that the costof housing is a matter of deep, deep concern to this government. But what is one of the prime reasons for the high cost of housing? It is the interest rates. Interest rates have accelerated from 7 per cent to 8 per cent. Twelve or fourte.en years ago, 8 per cent was looked at-as almost like a usurers rate.

Then it crept up to 10 per cent, 11 per cent, 12 per cent, and now, God help us, the interest rate on a house is about 18 per cent or 19 per cent so that today, young people in this Province, and not only in this Province, throughout Canada, cannot afford basic housing accommodation. And the reason they cannot is because of the high interest rates; $500 or $600 or $700 a month 261 .. , .. .. ..

'/IT March 4, 1981 Tape 93 EC - 2 MR. MARSHALL: is the order of the day for the most basic housing accommodation. And who has control of the interest rates, Mr. Speaker? Does the provincial government have control of the interest rates? MR. NEARY: They can c9ntrol rents. MR • MARSHALL: I will tell you who has control. I will get on to the hon. gentleman afterwards, his comments, because the hon. gent ·leman spoke for twenty minutes and I can deal with his comments in about half a minute. So if he will bear with me, I will deal with his comments towards the end. SOME HON. MEMBER9 : Oh, oh! MR.

SPEAKER (Butt) : Order, please:! MR. MARSHALL .: As. far as the in .terest rates are concerned, Mr. Speaker, who has control of those? The entity which has control of the interest rates in the Canadian nation is the Bank of Canada. The Bank of Canada comes under the complete jurisdiction of the federal governme~t. As a matter of fact, the Governor of the Bank of Canada sets the interest rate from t·ime to time, now weekly, in consultation with the Minister of Finance of Canada. What other causes, Mr. Speaker, of inflation?

And as I say, I do not derogate in any way the concerns because they are very oppressive concerns to every person in this Province and they are a matter of deep and abiding concern to this Province. But who has control over inflation? One of the biggest elements in the high inflation over the past number of years have been oil prices. Who has control over the oil prices? The entity is quite obvious in the debate which is going on in the country today that it is the federal government which has the control over the oil prices.

It happens to delude people by saying that 'We will keep the price of the tank down a certain portion.' But at the same time they sock it on with not just income tax, they have to pay the going price in effect 262 '·I ''I

Marc h 4, 198 1 Tape 93 EC - 3 MR. MARSHA,LL: for oil because they have to import oil. Okay, so they import it. How do they pay? If they do not get it ·at the tank they have to get it somewhere. Whe.l;'e do they get it? Obviqusly, they have to get it from taxes. Certainly, income tax tak.es a certain am~unt of this, but there are ~ther taxes which increase the price of commodities. and goods, such as excise taxes and indirect taxes which. the : federal government presently levies.

Now, in this Province, one of the rna,jor concerns of the major elements in the cost of living in this Province · is tran .sportat ·ion. Now, who has the responsi- · bility · fo:;c transportation .?· It is obvious].y the f.ederal government. SOME RON. MEMBERS : No, _no! MR. MA .RSHALL: Yes, the federal government has the :~;esponsib.illty through its · transportation policies. The subsidies that were previously paid - the hon. member made a statement to the effect that oUJ; cost of living was hi .ghe:r: tha,n the. costs. of living in other provinces, and I say, 263 ''1 ..1 .. , ''1 .. '·1

March 4, 1981 Tape No.94 EL - 1 MR. MARSHALL: Yes, so it is. And one of the major reasons is because of the high cost of transportation in this Province for goods and services coming in from the rest of Canada and from the rest of the world, and this is the responsibility of the Federal Government. The Federal Government has res­ ponsibility, Mr. Speaker, for .tariffs as well, tariff policies. All of these, Mr. Speaker-C. won~er if I could have a glass of water. I am waxing eloquently here and I want to use my time. Would you get me a glass of water. Tariffsare a big factor in this, Mr. Speaker, as well.

So the hon. member wants,in effect, a Select Committee set up in this Hquse to examine in .to areas of responsibility of the Federal Government and,in effect,make re­ commendations. Now, how effective would a Select Committee be in this House to make representations to the Federal Government about what the Federal Government should do and what the Federal Government has not done in the past? That is the motion that is be .fore the House.

That is the motion which we are asked to consider­ And we do not believe, th .e government does not believe that this is the effective way to handle it from a Provincial point of view. As far as the government is concerned on inflation and the cost of living 1 it has done everything it possibly can, Mr. Speaker, it has ta .ken many measures.

I suppose the biggest concern to us is the cost of food and bearing this in mind the government has-­ and particularly the divergence in the cost of food amongst the various sections of the Province - as hon. members know, the govern­ ment has instituted in the Consumer Affairs division ~f the govern­ ment, a process whereby the relative prices of food throughout the 264 ··, .. .. , .. .. , •. i

March 4, 1981 Tape No. 94 EL-2 MR. MARSHALL: Province are reported on a periodic basis and are made public. We are in the process of considering, Mr. Speaker, the findings that have been made, and we have found that this reporting system has had an effect. It has had a certain effect in certain areas whereby it has resulted in the downward de-escalation of prices. So that is something we have done, something we a-re going to continue to do. The hon. member has mentioned about rentals. The informat ·ion will be available very shortl ~- .

The hon. gentleman can -- This is an open government, a comple -tely open government and a free government - AN HON. MEMBER: MR. MARSHALL: • years of Confederation. SOME HON . MEMBE RS: Hear ·, hear:! - as contrasted to the first twenty Hear, hear! MR •. MARSHALL: So, Mr. Speaker, that is one, I think, real effective area in which we are operating. Another effective area - the hon. gentleman mentioned about rentals and ~ the high cost of rentals and the high cost of housing itself.

Well, the high cost of rentals, first of all, I would say, right now is dir­ ectly linked, directly linked in a very, very real way to the high interest costs in this country and there is nobody that can deny that. Rentals have gone up everywhere and the prime reason has been the carrying charges, the interest · charges. But we are doing all we can, Mr. Speaker. We have established a Residential Tenancy Board in this Province, Residential Tenancy Boards, as a matter of fact, in all areas of the Province which are charged with looking after the interests, primarily of tenants, of looking 265 ''I .. , ''I .. ,

~ March 4, 1981 Tape No. 94 EL - 3 MR. MARSHALL: into their complaints, of seeing within the ambit of the present day economy that the tenants get a reasonable and fair deal with respect to their rentals. So the government · has taken that s·tep. This government has also been one of the leaders in Canada, Mr. Spe •aker, in its Cons umbe -r A-f-fairs legis -lation - MR-. HISCOCK: away with the department. MR. MARSHALL: ment is not destroyed. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. MARSRALL: They destroyed the department. Did It is not whe ,ther- the - the depart-- No, no .1 The actions of the Consumer Affairs· .

Divis ,ion are just: as . e·ffective ri .ght now as the , actions of the Consumer Affairs were last year or the year before, just as effect:­ ive and will remain so. The hon. gent~eman is operating under a misapprehension when he thinks that there has to be a department of something in order for a matter to be discharged, in order for a concern to be · addressed and if there is . not a department the concern will not be addressed. The concerns are addressed by government. Whetheror not there is a department is just merely a matter of organization and how it is . done ·. 266 'I •·- ··,

March 4, 1981 Tape No. 95 DW - 1 MR. W. MARSHALL: So that is the situation, Mr. Speaker . The hon. gentleman, the hon. member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary) 1 when he was addressing this matter - I do not think I really need to go through what he said, I mean he was obviously, you know, speaking to the galleries,as it were, he was not addressinq the point - I do not think he once mentioned a select committee. He introduced the measure berore this House to have a select committee and I do not think he mentioned the words 1 select commi t.tee 1 once when he was speaking. He did not even address himse-lf to his own motion.

The fact of the matter is,what he wants in this motion, Mr. Speaker, is a select committee to look into matters which are primarily and principally within the ~urisdiction of the federal qove ·rnment. It is - number one, I would not expect any Legis~ature to have a select committee to look into matters which are the responsi­ bility of another jurisdiction. We have · already had to shoulder many of these responsibilities, Mr. Speaker, such as the dockyard in St. John's. He mentioned CNR fondly. Make no wonder he would mention CNR fondly and the federal govern- ment.

We have already had to, as I say, assume certain basic responsibilities of the federal government within the Province of Newfoundland and we are not about ·, Mr. Speaker, to assume the responsibilities of the federal government, the government of all of Canada. When we get Newfoundland on the plane which it should be, on a firm foundation to which it is being directed and which it is going 1 maybe we will look at our brother Canadians and see what we can do. If they want to be governed from St. John's rather than from Ottawa we will be quite pleased to do it. 267 .. , .. , .. , .. ,

March 4, 1981 Tape No. 95 DW - 2 MR. W. MARSHALL: But in the meantime, Mr. Speaker, these are concerns for the federal government and they are very real concerns for the federal government and they should be addressed. The hen. gentlemen have the where­ withall to do it. They have the-ir five fine fellows sitting in the backbenches - or one in the front bench and four on the backbenches in Ottawa - they have them sitting up there not saying a word with respect to the interests of the people of Newfoundland on offshore, on the transmission of oil and on fishery matters.

So pe "rhaps they might like to take their resolution, Mr. Speaker, ~nd bring it u~ to one of their members in Ottawa and get them to introduce it on the floor of the House of Commons in Ottawa and ask the Government of Canada to recognize the fact that our cost of living is very high and for the Parliament of Canada to appoint a select committee to look into the high cost of inflation and in particular the higher cost of living that pertains in the Province of Newfoundland.

So if the hon. gentlemen wish to do a service to the people of Newfoundland, if they wish this resolution to be effective 1 I would suggest that they should go to their friends in Ottawa - MR. L. THOMS: Why did you not do it when Joe Clark was in power? MR. W . MARSHALL: We went very effectively when Mr. Clark was in Ottawa, Mr. Speaker. MR. L. THOMS: MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : MR. W. MARSHALL: (Inaudible) . Order, please! What we did then 1 if the hon. member will recall, was we went to Ottawa and we qot our basic natural rights on the offshore with the hon. gentlemen opposite. SOME HON.

MEMBERS: Hear, hear! 268 '"I .. , .. , ''I

March 4, 1981 Tape No. 95 OW - 3 MR . W o MARSHALL: What we did also, Mr. Speaker , is we went to Ottawa and we stood for Newfoundland,no matter of the fact that there were c:olleagues in our own party , and we took our position up there with respect to the Northern cod stock on the part of Newfoundland. SOME BON. MEMBERS: Bear, hear! MR. W. MA.RSfui.LL: So if the hon. gentlemen want to stand up for Newfoundlanders and for Newfoundland,they will take these concerns as well as the other concerns to their five silent friends in Ottawa and see if they can get them motivated. If they do that, Mr.

Speaker, we would be much far t her ahead. SOME HON . ~!EMBERS : Oh , oh! MR. W. MARSHALL: Now, I 0 on·ly ha·ve about a half a minute remaining,! believe,so I shall now proceed to 269 .. , .. , ... , .. , .. , .. ,

March 4, 1981, Tape 96, Page 1 -- apb MR. MARSHALL: deal with the remarks by - now, can you ·imagine a person introiducing a motion in this House to appoint a se ·lec .t committee, getting up and speaking for twenty minutes . and not even mentioning the se:lect committee·? He is not interested in a select · committee ·, he · is not interested in the. prices, he just wants to make cheap little political points. MR. HISCOCK: Shame·! MR. MARSHALL: The bon. gent ·leman, when he got up ,,he said nothing reall.y that requires an answer.

He did applaud the longshoremen for their pres -sure for the freezer down on the dock. Here again he could take that up with the federal government and his friends at Canadian National. MR •. AYLWARD: What about the synchrolift and the National Harbours Board? MR. MARSHALL: I mentioned the synchrolift, the dockyard down there. They could take that at the same t·irne. He talks about the container - how inconsistent the containerization and applau~s CN for the container­ ization.

He says the freezers are what the longshore - he applauds the longshoremen and does not realize that what the. containerization is going to do is cancel out the long­ shoremen. So here again he is inconsistent. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. MARSHALL: I have nothing further, Mr. Speaker, to add except to say that this is a motion for a select committee of this House to enquire into matters that are not the responsibility fo this House, they are the responsibility of the Parliament of Canada. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. MARSHALL: For this reason we will vote against it.

If the han. gentlemen wish to amend their 270 .. ''I ''I '·I ''I

March 4, l98l, Tape 96, Page 2 - apb MR. MARSHALL: motion to provide that we pass a motion to the effect that we request the Minister of National Revenue in .Ottawa and his four colleagues to pass a similar motion, or- to present a similar motion to the House of Commons in Ottawa, we would certainly conside ·r it. Because that · is the place, Mr·. Speaker, where this motion should be. It is a matter of grave concern, inflation, the high cost of living.

This governmenc is grappling with it within its means, through its f·ood prices review in the various parts of the Province, through its tenancy leg .i.slation ·, through the Consumer Affairs Acts, I say, which are second to none in Canada and are very, very effective.

But the hon. gentlemen there opposite do not · seem to understand that the causes of inflation are obviously the moneta ·ry supply, they are obviously the interest rates, they are obviously transportation costs and the other concerns as we.ll that I have mentioned: The supp~y of money, interest rates, of course, the oil prices, tariffs, transportation, these are concerns and . these are concerns of· the federal government. And it is all very well for the hen. member to get up aJ1d make a humourous speech., as he does from time to time, he is full of humour, Mr.

Speaker, but when he gets up he is not making real sense. Because the fact of the . matter is, if the hon. gentlemen there opposite really wanted to do a service as to the Province of Newfoundland, I say they ~uld take this resolution, they would give it to their five friends who will not support Newfoundland on ownership of the offshore, who will not support Newfoundland on the transmissi.on of power, will not support Newfoundland on 271 ''I .. , ''I .. ,

March 4, 1981, Tape 96, Page 3 -- apb MR. MARSHALL: on fisheries, who will not support Newfoundland on the synchrolift, they will bring the resolution to them, they will say to them; 'Now, gentlemen, we would appreciate it if you woke up.

Here is a resolution that has been expe -rtly drafted -by the Dean of the House · of Assembly in Newfoundland, .we suggest you substitute the words 'House of Commons' for the ~egislature of this Province' and yo" add words, 'That you look into inflation with particular reference to the higher inflation in Newfoundland • • I'f he does that he will be doing a service to this Province, and to his country, but he does nothing by this resolution, Mr. Speaker. SOME RON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER(Butt): Torngat Mountains. MR. WARREN: Hear, hear! The hon. the member for Mr.

Speaker, it is indeed an honour to be able to follow the Minis ter or the Privy Council, because he did say in his c·losing remarks that there was not much sense made by the member who introduced the resol ution. Well, I wou ld like to tell the han. member that I have a little gir l home five years old who has much more co mm on sense, and can show much more cormnon sense than he has shown in this House today. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. BARRY: MR. WARREN: ashamed of that either. MR. BARRY: MR. WARREN: MR. LUSH: mouth again. MR. WARREN: guy says something. Is she adopted? Yes, she is.

And I am not I am sorry, I did not know. Okay? You have put your foot in your That is what happens when a 272 ''I

March 4, 1981, Tape 96, Page 4 -- apb MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, when the ho n. - SOME RON. MEMBERS .: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER(Butt): Order, please! I a:in· having di£fi.culty hearing the bon. the. mexnber for Torngat Mountains. MR. WARREN .: When: the · hon ·. member for LaPoile (Mr. N;eary) introduced this- resol.uti.on, I believed that he had every reason to do so. Because ror the last seventeen o:t eighteen months this. goveDUD.ent have been taking the bread off . the people's plates .. This is what th.i.s . government has been doing, m.¥ friends, they have · taken the bread and the butter from. the · pJ:ate.s of the Newfoundland people. 273 ''J '1 I •• 1 ''I ''1

March 4, 1981 Tape 97 PK - 1 MR . WARREN: Now, Mr. Speaker, just to explain that,here we have the NAPE employees, employees of this provincial government, and some of them are living on less than a person on welfare can get. You have some eighty or ninety employees living in Labrador receiving Northern allowance less than even a town council can give them. Now, Mr. Speaker, I want to go back to what the Minister of the Privy Council said. He said, 'this government'- the President of the Privy Council- he said, 'this gove -rnment is concerned'. Okay.

Here this government operates five retail ·stores in Northern Labrador. I want to give you an example of how concerned they are for the average human lEing. In 1978 -·I am just going to give you one example, and this will show the concern of . this government- in 1978 they sent in a shipment of vegetable soup.It went into the stores in Northern Labrador and it was selling to the customer for twenty-four cents a tin in 1977 -I am sorry, 1977. Now 1 all that vegetable soup did not sell the first year. They sent in too much soup. The next year it did not sell.

So now that vegetable soup, which is three and a half years old, this government is selling to the consumer for fifty-one cents a tin. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear. MR. WARREN: Now, that is what you call government concern for the average human being. MR. NEARY: That is compassion for you. 274 ''I ·, ''t

'I March 4, 1981 Tape 97 PK - 2 MR. WARREN: Now that is compassion. That is a government that have put up the price of the vegetable soup to about 120 per cent instead of reducing it 1 and the soup has been there for the last three or four years. Now this is what you-would call a government with compassion. Mr. Speaker, I agree that we should have a select committee set up on the price structure and the consumer affairs of this Province. Let us look at the oil prices along the Labrador Coast. Let us look at the oil prices . The oil prices along the Labrado!

Coast: $1.30 in Nain; $1.49 in Rigolet; $1.79 or $1.69 in Mary's Harbour and so on.· The . prices fluctate and still and all it is bought from the same oil companies. So, Mr. Speaker, I think i we need a select committee. At _ least the price of fuel oil and gasoline should be stabilized. t-1R. STAGG: T.ha ·t would not be Mr. Woodward raising the prices like that, would it? MR. WARREN: kind of thing. No, Sir • Mr. Noodward w.ould not do that I think it is somebody connec .ted with the local Progressive Conservative Government of this Province. SOME HON. MEMBERS: SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. WARREN: MR.

SPEAKER (BUTT) : MR. WARREN: Hear, hear! Oh, oh! Mr. Speaker, - Order, please! Mr. Spea~er, why would you walk into a store in St. John's and pay $1.49 for a dozen eggs,and walk into a store in Nain and pay $3.55 for a dozenr Is that Mr. Woodward's fault? AN HON. MEMBER: MR. WARREN: ~1R. STAGG: It is government operated store. Through a goyernment store _, Mr. Speaker. (Inaudible) cannot control the eggs. 275 ., L'

~r. March 4, 1981 Tape 97 PK - 3 MR. I~ARREN: No, that is right, Mr. Speaker, he does not control the eggs. But this government should control the eggs. They should control the price of the eggs. This government controls the Newfoundland Egg Marketing Board. MR. HISCOCK: The:•·talk about controlling offshore (Inaudible) controlling offshore. MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, it is like my hon. friend said - MR. NEARY: They cannot even look after the egg prices let alone the gas - MR. WARREN: - they cannot even look after the egg prices not to talk about offshore oil and gas. Mr.

Speaker, let us look at the Department of Social Welfare - MR. STAGG: No such department. No such department. MR. WARREN: The Department of so 'cial Services. Maybe that might be more clarifying and the hon. member for Stephenville (Mr. Stagg) might understand it clearly. SOME HON. MEMBERS' Oh, oh! MR. WARREN: In Labrador there is a fuel allowance for social welfare recipients, a grand total of $24.00 a month _ tho .se · are for people on social assistance. Now, !1r.

Speaker, one drum of fuel oil in a community such as Hopedale costs $58.00, $58.00 for one drum of stove oil, and a .drum of stove oil in the middle of Winter roughly lasts about seven or eight days. So this means that this individual family will need three or four drums of stove oii at an approximate cost of $200 a month. Well 1 this government is quite pleased to blow their horn and say, 'look 1we are giving the~ $24.00 a month'. 276 ''l

Harch 4, 1981 Tape 97 PK - 4 'I MR. WARREN: Yes, that is compassion. That shows they ar .e concerned about the cost of living. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, if a person is unable to work because he is mentally or physically sick •·; ''I 277

March 4, 1981 Tape 98 EC - 1 MR. WARREN: then that person cannot work. And I assure the minister that there are people in my district wh.o would do a good day's work if they had the opportunity, much more so than the member has done today. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. STAGG: Is it the long.,.-term you are talking about? No short-term at all? MP. _ WARREN: Mr. Speaker, , there is no al.ternati.ve because of this government. That is why there is a short-term. Because this government has not put any jobs in place in these places, that is the reason. It is not the individual's reason. That is why.

That is why the community council in Hopedale was looking for a road for three yea~s, to employ some _people. But· this government said no. That is why there are more people on welfare, because of this government's lack of concern for the. individual, Mr. Speaker. MR. STAGG: You want to talk about not having things. If you got what you wanted you would have nothing to talk about. MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, I can understand the han. the member for Stephenville (r1r. Stagg), he is awfully upset. The han. the Minister of Mines and Energy (Mr.

Barry) just put his foot in his mouth and I am sure the member is going to do likewise very shortly. Mr. Speaker, I want to relate another thing, another example of this government's concern. It is about those people involved in the fishery. For example, last year in a fishing company here in St. John's a salmon web cost $42. A few days ago I had a call from a constituent of mine. He wanted to buy two more salmon webs. He said, 'They were $42 last year.

Maybe,' he said, 'they should be somewhere around $45 or $50 this year.' I called the companies and they were $59 one place and $62 the other place for the same kind 278 .. .. , '1

March 4, 1981 MR. WARREN: before. MR. MORGAN: MR. WARREN: Tape 98 EC - 2 of salmon web that he had the year Is that right? Yes, Mr. 'Minister, that is right .• Now, this is where this government is lacking concern for the individual. This is why there should be a Select Committee set up to go around the Province and check as to why the prices are going from $42 to $60 . It is because this government does not care, Mr. Speaker .• MR. HANCOCK: The h::m. Minister of Fisheries is up to blow again. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. WARREN: Mr.

Speaker, this government is so concerned about offshore oil and gas, the transmission of hydro power, the Northern cod fishery - MR. MORGAN: MR. WARREN: We are concerned about it, sure. You are concerned about· it, yes. You are conce ·rned about it, but what are you going to do about it? You have not done anything so far, for the las -t nineteen months ., so what . are you going to do in the future? Mr. Speaker, I have to ment ·ion this. Mr. Speaker, I did not want to embarrass the administration of the Province, but I have to mention this. Mr. Speaker, the President of · the Pr .i.vy Counc~l (Mr.

M.3.rshall) said that Mr. Clark was going to give him everything, Mr. Clark was going to g.ive Newfoundland everything •. Last weekend, Mr. Speaker, there was some kind of spectacle on television and on the television screen I think I read across the screen 714 supporters of Mr. Clark's government,or the P.C. Party of Canada, voted against Mr. Clark. And this is the man who was going to give the prov~ncseverything. AN RON. MEMBER: I think Crosbie had 200 there for sure. MR. WARREN: So, Mr. Speaker, I would say there must be something afoot that is causing - 279 .. '·! .,

March 4, 1981 Tape No . 98 IB-3 Al.~ HON. MEMBER : The only ones froll'. Newfoundland who voted against (inaudible) were Mr. Crosbie's buddies. MR. \VARREN : Yes. Sure he cam e out publicly and said he was defini tel.y going to support him. MR. STAGG: But he (i naudible) for Newfoundland. MR. SPEAKER (B AIRD ): Order, please! I am having difficulty hearing the member for Torngat Mou .ntains (Mr . Warren). MR. \VARREN: Okay , Mr. Speaker. If the member for Stephenville (Mr . Stagg) would keep his trap shut for about five minutes I may be finished. But if he keeps interrupting, Mr.

Speaker, then I am afraid that, you know, there could be something serious . MR. STAGG: (Inaudibl e) . MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, why should ,. you go into a small grocery store in Manuels , the haoo of the hon.rne:nber for Conception Bay South (Mr . Butt'

s) and buy a dozen oranges - just listen to this now - buy a dozen oranges for 280 .. , ''1 '1 .. , '1 ''1

,_ ~1arch 4, 1981 Tape No. 99 SD - 1 MR. G. WARREN: $2.20 a dozen? Oranges for $2.20, not a bad price. You go into the store in :1akkovik and you pay $5.80 for a dozen oranges. MR. THOMS: In a government store? MR. WARREN: In a government store - $5.80 for a dozen oranges. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh. MR. WARREN: Now, Mr. Speaker, and this is a government that is operating their own stores. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh. MR. WARREN: Oh, yes, right. Those were black oranges or green oranaes or yellow oranges. MR. SPEAKER (BAIRD): Order, please! MR. WARREN: Mr.

Speaker, I will tell you this much, the oranges never had anv offshore oil and gas in them. MR. STAGG: You know nothing but fruit. MR. WARREN: ~1r. Speaker, a member of the Privy Council said that the rents were caused by the interest rates. MR. STAGG: The rent_ is caused by the landlords. MR. WARREN: The rent is caused by the landlord and therefore is passed on to the consumer. Mr.

Speaker, I think the peop .le of this Province who are renting are just taking the average consumer right · to the cleaners and it is because this government, in its rental control agency board - or the board that they have set up, is not monitored properly. That is the problem, that board is not monitored properly, Itis not the federal government or the provincial government, it is that the board is not monitored properly. MR. STAGG: We are all bored over here. MR. NARREN: Yes, I agree, Sir.. Now, that is good. Now, Mr. Speaker, I am sure some of the members are bored an~,however,I know why they are bored.

The reason they are bored is because we are finally beginning to say to you 281 '1 ., .. , .. ,

March 4, 1981 Tape No. 99 SD - 2 MR. WARREN: people, 'Get off your posteriors and try to do something.' That is the problem, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I presented a petition in the House last year from some 100 civil servants working in Labrador. They want their Northern allowance increased to offset the cost of living.

The member of the Treasury Board, the minister responsible to the Treasury Board, got up and he never heard about it in his life before, government officials signing a petition, shoald never be heard of, and his comment was to the effect that.'this is not going to happen any more and they are not supposed to send in petitions.' Now, here we are civil servants working for government who are looking for a decent living, and are not allowed to petition 'the government. AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) MR. WARREN: They did~ Sure they did~ And I hope they will again.

Because if they do not fight for their rights I am sure this government is not going to fight for their rights. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear. MR. WARREN: Now, Mr. Speaker, I want to tell you something else now about how government operates its stores. Here is a good one now, I will give you a couple. The cost of old goods, you know, went up last year, I think,around 30 per cent in some of the stores so I aske ·d the minister, Why did the cost increase? MR. LUSH: They were antigues. MR. WARREN: Yes, I agree they were antigues. I agree. MR. HOLLETT: Their Leader said to them yesterday that they are re-cycled. MR.

WARREN: Now, he carne back with the answer and said, 'Well 1 the cost is roughly 23 per cent per year for handling 282 '·I .. , ''I ' 'I ...

·~~ March 4, 1981 Tape No. 99 SD - 3 MR. WARREN: and storage'. Now, Mr. Speaker, whether they are old goods that came in ten years ago or whether they are goods that come in tomorrow, you are going to use the same warehouse so the cost of extra facilities does not even come into place, you do not need extra facilities because the facilities are already there. MR. HOLLETT: And they are paid for. MR. WARREN: And the facilities are paid for 90 per cent by the federal government 1 by the way. MR. HOLLETT: And there is no 18 per cent interest charge on it. MR.

WARREN: And there is no 18 per cent interest·. charge on it and still and all the oil stock had to be increased roughly 23 per cent. Now, Mr. Speaker, if that rs a reasonable answer to receive from a Hinister of the Crown as to why the government is charging fifty-one cents for a tin of tomato soup four years old 1 there must be something wrong with the government. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear. MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, I do not want that crowd - in supporting my hon. and able friend from LaPoile (Mr. Neary) in bringing in this resolution 7 I think this resolution is long overdue,.. In fact - MR.

NEARY: The government, they are allergic to the cost of living over there, they do not want to talk about it. 283 ' I ··,

March 4, 1981 Tape No. 100 EL - 1 MR. WARREN: In fact, I am surprised that when the resolution went to go on the Order Paper, when the hon. the Lieutenant-Governor opened the House,"that a member from the government side did not say, well,let us get the jump on the Opposition today. Let us get a jump on them today, let us bring in a resolution. And I was expecting the member from Steph­ enville(F.Stagg) would have brought in such a resolution as this. MR. STAGG: Constitution. MR. WARREN: ution. MR. STAGG: MR. WARREN: MR. STAGG: MR.

WARREN: I brought in the one on the Oh, you brought in one on the Constit- A very important one. An important one? (Inaudible) Yes, well,Tory St. John's thought the Constitution was nice and they agreedwith- MR. SPEAKER (Baird) : Order, please! MR. WARREN: And, Mr. Speaker, I want to go on record in supporting this resolution. It is straightforward. It is straightforward. There is no - in fact,I believe that we shoulQ conclude today and set up a Select Committee because it is very important. It is important, that is the concern.

It is so im­ portant that we should not even have to wait until next Wednesday, that we should not even have to wait until next Wednesday, that we should - right after twenty minutes of six today the hon. member from LaPoile (S. Neary) should be given permission to close the debate and the government members, along with the Opp- osition members,will support, will support that the House set up a Select Committee to examine into all aspects of inflation and prepare recommendations on how the government shoul~ proceed. Now, Mr.

Speaker, that is an or- dinary, simple request, a simple request and all we are asking- look, 284 '·I '·I .. I

March 4, 1981 Tape No. 100 EL - 2 '·J MR. WARREN: the p~or people, the peopl€. who have to depend upon this Province for their bread and butter, why do we not try to help those people ,? Why do we not try to help the people that are on strike for $148.50 a week? Why do we not try to help the ·nurses who are having trouble with the government? Why do we not help the teachers ' who are in a turmoil with the Minister of Education(L. Verge)? Why do we not help .. , the social welfare recipients who are driven to the poverty line? This is all we are asking, Mr. Speaker .

All we are asking is that all members of this House join together for the betterment of the people of this Province and for the betterment of New- foundland on the whole Thank you. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! AN HON. MEMBER: Oh, now we are going to hear it. MR. STAGG: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Baird) : The hon. member for Stephenville. . MR. STAGG: Well, Mr. Speaker, after having a breath of hot air from the other side I think it is time for some cool and rational debate so,therefore,I am constrained to enter into the debate.

Now, the President of the Council (W .Marshall), I allowed him to go first because he is a stranger to debate. AN HON. MEMBER: Oh, oh! MR. STAGG: Ordinarily on Private Member~ •t Day one of us would have the first crack at this resolution but I decided I would let him go first. Little did I know that he would use up almost all my material so I will have to restate the obvious and restate it in my own style 1 some of the things that he said. The cause of inflation in Canada is brought about by- inflation is brought about by any number of 285 ''I

March 4, 1981 Tape No. 100 EL - 3 MR. STAGG: f~ctors, all of which ultimately trace their way back to the Federal Government and its policies that have been unsuccessful in Canada _since 1968 . And you date the political epochs in Canada from the Diefenbaker era, the Pearson era and the.

Trudeau era, Nell, the Trudeau era began in 1968 when the entire budget of Canada- Canada managed to conduct all its affairs with a total spending of under $10 billion dollars.And in the budget, the estimates that were presented last week, irregularly presented before the Hous e of Commons, finally presented,the total expenditures for Canada are something like $68 billion dollars . So, you have gone from about $8 billion dolla rs up to S68 · billion in the space of twelve years.

And I suggest to hon. members, is the general public of Canada any better off, appreciably better .off, in t~ose tw~lve years than they were then?And I suggest that real income and the net, if it \.,ere possible to go back and look at 286 .. , '1 ., '•1 "'1

March 4, 1981 TaJ?e No. 101 DW - 1 MR. F. STAGG: exactl y where we stand in terms of 1968, I would suggest, that the spending of the feder?l government over those number of years whereby we have some - thing over $100 billion worth of national debt,would indi­ cate that they have been very poor managers of the economy of this country. These are the gentlemen that hon. members opposite like to prostrate themselves before on occasion. When they go up to Ottawa on their hands and knees, it takes them a while to get there because t~~Y have to slither their way up.

But that is the kind of ~eople who are in the Liberal Pary, These are the kinds~f people that you support. Now 1 there is one noticeable exception- two noticeable exceptions over on the other side of the House - there is my good friend and colleague, my learne~ friend from Grand Bank (Mr. Thoms) who has the audacity, I suppose, within Liberal circles 1 and certainly I considered it was a heroic act on his part,to publish his views on the offshore oil and gas question. He wrote a letter to the editor, wrote a letter to all of the editors and he indicated in clear and concise terms where he stood.

Now 1he did not say that Newfoundland should have control - Newfoundland should only be entitled to the provincial type revenues fro~ the offshore like Mr. Rompkey did nor he did not indicate that New­ foundland does not have the ability to control its offshore oil and gas as Mr. Rompkey did in Corner Brook at a meeting of Liberals. I think it was a very small meeting but h~ did get a chance to meet thece in Corner Brook some time ago with some Liberals 7 basically saying that Newfoundland is not strong enough 1 it does not have enough ability to look after the offshore. That is the position of the Liberal Party.

That is the position of the Liberal Party. They would prefer to keep the profligate spenders, these drunken sailor-type spenders in Ottawa in control. And where do 287 ''I ''I .. , ''i

March 4, 1981 Tape No. 101 DW - 2 MR. F. STAGG: they spend all their money? They do not spend it in Newfoundland. They fight inflation on the backs of the Newfoundlanders. The great inflation fighter, Mr. MacERchen ,to whom all hon. gentlemen opposite are ad­ herents tohis economic philosophy 1 he maneauvred the bringing down of the Clark government last year largely on the strength of the government stand on an eighteen cent a gallon tax on oil - on gasoline, rather - which is oil. What is the cost now? Forty cents a gallon it has gone up in the past year. Forty cents a gallon.

We are paying more for gas now then we did back in Februa~y of 1980. Eighteen cents ve ·rsus forty cents. And it is all brought about by the federal gover~ment's inabili~y to manage its affairs,whether they are spending the vast amounts of money on Central Canada and depriving New­ foundlanders of the services and the benefits that we should have. I will give another example of it. The Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) and I were talking with some West Coast news media today about this matter of the withdrawing of the Arctica from fisheries patrol. Some twenty Newfoundlanders who are now working