Province of Alberta The 28th Legislature Second Session Alberta Hansard Wednesday, April 16, 2014 Issue 19 The Honourable Gene Zwozdesky, Speaker

Legislative Assembly of Alberta The 28th Legislature Second Session Zwozdesky, Hon. Gene, Edmonton-Mill Creek (PC), Speaker Rogers, George, Leduc-Beaumont (PC), Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees Jablonski, Mary Anne, Red Deer-North (PC), Deputy Chair of Committees Allen, Mike, Fort McMurray-Wood Buffalo (Ind) Amery, Moe, Calgary-East (PC) Anderson, Rob, Airdrie (W), Official Opposition House Leader Anglin, Joe, Rimbey-Rocky Mountain House-Sundre (

W) Barnes, Drew, Cypress-Medicine Hat (

W) Bhardwaj, Hon. Naresh, Edmonton-Ellerslie (PC) Bhullar, Hon. Manmeet Singh, Calgary-Greenway (PC) Bikman, Gary, Cardston-Taber-Warner (

W) Bilous, Deron, Edmonton-Beverly-Clareview (ND) Blakeman, Laurie, Edmonton-Centre (AL), Liberal Opposition House Leader Brown, Dr. Neil, QC, Calgary-Mackay-Nose Hill (PC) Calahasen, Pearl, Lesser Slave Lake (PC) Campbell, Hon. Robin, West Yellowhead (PC), Government House Leader Cao, Wayne C.N., Calgary-Fort (PC) Casey, Ron, Banff-Cochrane (PC) Cusanelli, Christine, Calgary-Currie (PC) Dallas, Hon. Cal, Red Deer-South (PC) DeLong, Alana, Calgary-Bow (PC) Denis, Hon. Jonathan, QC, Calgary-Acadia (PC), Deputy Government House Leader Donovan, Ian, Little Bow (

W) Dorward, David C., Edmonton-Gold Bar (PC), Deputy Government Whip Drysdale, Hon. Wayne, Grande Prairie-Wapiti (PC) Eggen, David, Edmonton-Calder (ND), New Democrat Opposition Whip Fawcett, Hon. Kyle, Calgary-Klein (PC) Fenske, Jacquie, Fort Saskatchewan-Vegreville (PC) Forsyth, Heather, Calgary-Fish Creek (

W) Fox, Rodney M., Lacombe-Ponoka (

W) Fraser, Hon. Rick, Calgary-South East (PC) Fritz, Yvonne, Calgary-Cross (PC) Goudreau, Hector G., Dunvegan-Central Peace-Notley (PC) Griffiths, Hon. Doug, Battle River-Wainwright (PC) Hale, Jason W., Strathmore-Brooks (

W) Hancock, Hon. Dave, QC, Edmonton-Whitemud (PC), Premier Hehr, Kent, Calgary-Buffalo (AL) Horne, Hon. Fred, Edmonton-Rutherford (PC) Horner, Hon. Doug, Spruce Grove-St. Albert (PC) Hughes, Ken, Calgary-West (PC) Jansen, Hon. Sandra, Calgary-North West (PC) Jeneroux, Matt, Edmonton-South West (PC) Johnson, Hon. Jeff, Athabasca-Sturgeon-Redwater (PC) Johnson, Linda, Calgary-Glenmore (PC) Kang, Darshan S., Calgary-McCall (AL), Liberal Opposition Whip Kennedy-Glans, Donna, QC, Calgary-Varsity (Ind) Khan, Stephen, St. Albert (PC) Klimchuk, Hon.

Heather, Edmonton-Glenora (PC) Kubinec, Maureen, Barrhead-Morinville-Westlock (PC) Lemke, Ken, Stony Plain (PC) Leskiw, Genia, Bonnyville-Cold Lake (PC) Luan, Jason, Calgary-Hawkwood (PC) Lukaszuk, Hon. Thomas A., Edmonton-Castle Downs (PC) Mason, Brian, Edmonton-Highlands-Norwood (ND), Leader of the New Democrat Opposition McAllister, Bruce, Chestermere-Rocky View (

W) McDonald, Everett, Grande Prairie-Smoky (PC) McIver, Hon. Ric, Calgary-Hays (PC) McQueen, Hon. Diana, Drayton Valley-Devon (PC) Notley, Rachel, Edmonton-Strathcona (ND), New Democrat Opposition House Leader Oberle, Hon. Frank, Peace River (PC), Deputy Government House Leader Olesen, Cathy, Sherwood Park (PC) Olson, Hon. Verlyn, QC, Wetaskiwin-Camrose (PC), Deputy Government House Leader Pastoor, Bridget Brennan, Lethbridge-East (PC) Pedersen, Blake, Medicine Hat (

W) Quadri, Sohail, Edmonton-Mill Woods (PC) Quest, Hon. Dave, Strathcona-Sherwood Park (PC) Redford, Alison M., QC, Calgary-Elbow (PC) Rodney, Hon. Dave, Calgary-Lougheed (PC) Rowe, Bruce, Olds-Didsbury-Three Hills (

W) Sandhu, Peter, Edmonton-Manning (PC) Sarich, Janice, Edmonton-Decore (PC) Saskiw, Shayne, Lac La Biche-St. Paul-Two Hills (W), Official Opposition Whip Scott, Hon. Donald, QC, Fort McMurray-Conklin (PC) Sherman, Dr. Raj, Edmonton-Meadowlark (AL), Leader of the Liberal Opposition Smith, Danielle, Highwood (W), Leader of the Official Opposition Starke, Hon. Dr. Richard, Vermilion-Lloydminster (PC) Stier, Pat, Livingstone-Macleod (

W) Strankman, Rick, Drumheller-Stettler (

W) Swann, Dr. David, Calgary-Mountain View (AL) Towle, Kerry, Innisfail-Sylvan Lake (W), Official Opposition Deputy Whip VanderBurg, George, Whitecourt-Ste. Anne (PC), Government Whip Weadick, Hon. Greg, Lethbridge-West (PC) Webber, Len, Calgary-Foothills (Ind) Wilson, Jeff, Calgary-Shaw (W), Official Opposition Deputy House Leader Woo-Paw, Hon.

Teresa, Calgary-Northern Hills (PC) Xiao, David H., Edmonton-McClung (PC) Young, Steve, Edmonton-Riverview (PC) Party standings: Progressive Conservative: 58 Wildrose: 17 Alberta Liberal: 5 New Democrat: 4 Independent: 3 Officers and Officials of the Legislative Assembly W.J. David McNeil, Clerk Robert H.

Reynolds, QC, Law Clerk/ Director of Interparliamentary Relations Shannon Dean, Senior Parliamentary Counsel/Director of House Services Stephanie LeBlanc, Parliamentary Counsel and Legal Research Officer Fiona Vance, Sessional Parliamentary Counsel Nancy Robert, Research Officer Philip Massolin, Manager of Research Services Brian G. Hodgson, Sergeant-at-Arms Chris Caughell, Assistant Sergeant-at-Arms Gordon H. Munk, Assistant Sergeant-at-Arms Janet Schwegel, Managing Editor of Alberta Hansard

Executive Council Dave Hancock Premier, President of Executive Council, Minister of Innovation and Advanced Education Naresh Bhardwaj Associate Minister – Services for Persons with Disabilities Manmeet Singh Bhullar Minister of Human Services Robin Campbell Minister of Environment and Sustainable Resource Development Cal Dallas Minister of Internationa l and Intergovernmental Relations Jonathan Denis Minister of Justice and Solicitor General Wayne Drysdale Minister of Transportation Kyle Fawcett Associate Minister – Recovery and Reconstruction for Southwest Alberta Rick Fraser Associate Minister – Public Safety Associate Minister – Recovery and Reconstruction for High River Doug Griffiths Minister of Service Alberta Fred Horne Minister of Health Doug Horner President of Treasury Board and Minister of Finance Sandra Jansen Associate Minister – Family and Community Safety Jeff Johnson Minister of Education, Minist erial Liaison to the Canadian Forces Heather Klimchuk Minister of Culture Thomas Lukaszuk Minister of Jobs, Skills, Training and Labour Ric McIver Minister of Infrastructure Diana McQueen Minister of Energy Frank Oberle Minister of Aboriginal Relations Verlyn Olson Minister of Agri culture and Rural Development Dave Quest Associate Minister – Seniors Dave Rodney Associate Minister – Wellness Donald Scott Associate Minister – Account ability, Transparency and Transformation Richard Starke Minister of Tourism, Parks and Recreation Greg Weadick Associate Minister – Recovery and Reconstruction for Southeast Alberta Teresa Woo-Paw Associate Minister – Inte rnational and Intergovernmental Relations

STANDING AND SPECIAL COMMITTEES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ALBERTA Standing Committee on Alberta’s Economic Future Chair: Mr. Amery Deputy Chair: Mr. Fox Dorward Eggen Hehr Kubinec Lemke Luan McDonald Pastoor Quadri Rogers Rowe Sarich Stier Standing Committee on the Alberta Heritage Savings Trust Fund Chair: Mr. Casey Deputy Chair: Mrs. Jablonski Amery Barnes Dorward Eggen Khan Sandhu Sherman Select Special Ethics Commissioner Search Committee Chair: Mr. Rogers Deputy Chair: Mr.

Quadri Blakeman Eggen Goudreau Lemke Leskiw McDonald Saskiw Standing Committee on Families and Communities Chair: Ms Olesen Deputy Chair: Mrs. Forsyth Cusanelli DeLong Fenske Fritz Jablonski Jeneroux Leskiw McAllister Notley Pedersen Sandhu Swann VanderBurg Standing Committee on Legislative Offices Chair: Mr. Jeneroux Deputy Chair: Mr. McDonald Bikman Blakeman Brown DeLong Eggen Leskiw Quadri Wilson Young Special Standing Committee on Members’ Services Chair: Mr. Zwozdesky Deputy Chair: Mr. VanderBurg Casey Forsyth Fritz Johnson, L.

Kubinec Mason McDonald Sherman Towle Standing Committee on Private Bills Chair: Mr. Xiao Deputy Chair: Mrs. Leskiw Allen Brown Cusanelli DeLong Fenske Fritz Jablonski Notley Olesen Rowe Stier Strankman Swann Standing Committee on Privileges and Elections, Standing Orders and Printing Chair: Ms Kubinec Deputy Chair: Mr. Rogers Calahasen Casey Kang Khan Luan Notley Olesen Pastoor Pedersen Saskiw VanderBurg Wilson Young Standing Committee on Public Accounts Chair: Mr. Anderson Deputy Chair: Mr.

Dorward Allen Amery Barnes Bilous Donovan Fenske Hehr Khan Luan Pastoor Sandhu Sarich Young Standing Committee on Resource Stewardship Chair: Mr. Khan Deputy Chair: Mr. Anglin Allen Bikman Bilous Blakeman Brown Calahasen Casey Goudreau Hale Johnson, L. Webber Xiao Young

April 16, 2014 Alberta Hansard 473 Legislative Assembly of Alberta Title: Wednesday, April 16, 2014 1:30 p.m. 1:30 p.m. Wednesday, April 16, 2014 [The Speaker in the chair] Prayers The Speaker: Hon. members, let us pray. Life and health are truly precious. When they are lost, we all grieve. Today let us remember those who are no longer among us. Let our thoughts be positive, and let them be filled with compassion, understanding, and prayer. May all blessings be upon them. Amen. Please be seated. Statement by the Speaker State Funeral for the Hon.

Jim Flaherty The Speaker: Hon. members, today the state funeral is being held for the late Hon. Jim Flaherty. Accordingly and in keeping with Alberta provincial protocols, our provincial flags have been lowered to half-mast. On behalf of all Albertans all of us join with all Canadians to mourn the passing of the late Hon. Jim Flaherty. We pay tribute to his dedicated public service, and we express our deepest condolences to his family and friends. The state funeral is now under way, and it takes precedence.

Introduction of Guests The Speaker: Hon. members, let us begin with school groups, starting with Edmonton-Mill Woods , followed by Edmonton - Riverview. Mr. Quadri: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m pleased to introduce to you and through you to all members of this Assembly the sharpest, the coolest, the most exciting, and the brightest students of Edmonton-Mill Woods ’s Hillview elementary school along with their teacher, Herman Chang, and two teacher helpers, Mrs. Tracy Ross and Mrs. Janice Davison. I will request that they please rise and receive the warm traditional welcome of this House. The Speaker: The hon.

Member for Edmonton-Riverview , followed by Edmonton-Gold Bar. Mr. Young: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It’s my honour to rise and introduce to you and through you two classes, 56 students in total, from Lynnwood school. They are joined by their teachers, Sheldon Durstling and Erin Bayly, and parents Angela Shymko, Stacy van Cingel, Pam Wallace, and Ibeth Pinilla -Canon. They’re all seated in the gallery. If they could all stand and receiv e the traditional warm welcome of the Assembly. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Gold Bar. Mr. Dorward: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It’s my pleasure to rise and introduce to you and through you to all members of this Assembly 23 bright young grade 6 s tudents from a school that used to be in an area that you represented, Mr. Speaker, Rutherford school, but who are here today from the constituency of Edmonton-Gold Bar . The students are accompanied by their teacher, Sandra Colquhoun, and parent volunteer Pam Van Lersberghe. I would now ask that they please rise and receive the traditional warm welcome of this Assembly. Mr. Goudreau: Mr. Speaker, if I may, it’s just to acknowledge and recognize a group that will join us in a few minutes.

They’re a group from Heart Valley Christian school, next to Wanham. They will have travelled just about six hours one way to get here to visit and spend some time in the Legislature, so I just wanted to acknowledge that they will join us a little later. Thank you. The Speaker: Thank you. Are there others? If not, let us proceed with other special guests, beginning with Leduc-Beaumont. Mr. Rogers: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m very pleased to welcome to your gallery today 16 individuals who are the 2014 nominees for the Ernest C. Manning innovation awards, Canada’s most prestigious innovation awards. The Ernest C.

Manning innovation awards have been recognizing Canadian innovators of all ages with the imagination to innovate and the stamina to succeed. Albertans are well represented as recipients of Manning awards since they were established some 33 years ago as a national award program, named after A lberta Premier Ernest C. Manning. This year there are 56 nominees from across Canada, and of these, 18 are Albertans. Here in Alberta we are indeed fortunate to enjoy a supportive business and research climate which encourages innovators. The impact on th e Alberta economy by innovators has been immense.

This year’s nominees include well -established innovators and start-up entrepreneurs. Some of these innovations are now being exported all over the world, and others are in the early stages of entering markets. They deserve our attention and recognition. They are the individuals who are changing the way Alberta and, indeed, Canada compete, manufacture, communicate, and care for each other. I would ask the nominees to please rise as I call their names and remain standing until all are introduced.

We begin with Adrian Banica from Edmonton, innovator of the realSens system, a helicopter-mounted remote gas-sensing instrument package; Wade Carson of Edmonton, Jim Colvin of Calgary, Andrew Czarnietzki of Edmonton, and Jonathan Klippenstein of Sherwood Park, innovators of the world’s first snubbing simulator, a software training program – Jonathan Klippenstein was unable to join us today – Dale Gregg of Edmonton, innovator of the Handle -Tech hose and pipe handle; Kev in Grumetza of Thorhild, innovator of the Easy Sheet curling rink ice liner; Sean Hannigan of Edmonton, innovator of the Swift rig vac; Reza Nasseri of Edmonton, innovator of the Landmark precision building system; Dennis Prince of Edmonton, innovator of A irdar, a new technology that measures the locations and sizes of emission sources; John Putters of Edmonton, innovator of WANDA, a washroom management system; Jason Dewling of Olds, innovator of the connect your passion initiative, a mobile learning strate gy; Dennis Filips of Edmonton, innovator of the iTClamp, a small, lightweight temporary wound-closure device; Jerry Hanna of Sherwood Park, who invented the accelerated sediment removal technology; and Vern Sparkes of Calgary, innovator of the Ditch Hitch, a safe vehicle recovery device.

Mr. Speaker, there are three more 2014 nominees, who were unable to attend today. Ross Thurston of Calgary, innovator of LWR, a patented manure treatment system – his mother, Norma, attends in his stead – Jan Kowalczewski of Edmonton, innovator of ReJoyce, the rehabilitation joystick for computerized exercise; Dr. Ray Rajotte of Edmonton, innovator of the perfusion device for human islet isolation, a noninvasive transplant procedure freeing severe diabetics from insulin injections.

474 Alberta Hansard April 16, 2014 Mr. Speaker, I now ask all the members to join me in recognizing the 2014 Ernest C. Manning award nominees with the traditional warm welcome of this Assembly. The Speaker: Thank you. The hon. Associate Minister of Seniors, followed by the Associate Minister of Wellness. Mr. Quest: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It gives me great pleasure to introduce to you and through you to all members of this Assembly two guests who are constituents of mine, Jerry and Katherine Hanna. Jerry, recognized a brief moment ago, is a made-in-Alberta innovator nominated for the Ernest C.

Manning innovation award. His wife, Katherine, is a dynamic business leader in her own right and is on hand today to help celebrate her husband’s success. I’d like to acknowledge the combined accomplishments of this couple, who are outstanding entrepreneurs and great supporters of our community in Strathcona county. Their many contributions include volunteering with the Sherwood Park & District Chamber of Commerce and hosting an annual c harity fundraiser at their home. I’m especially honoured to count Katherine and Jerry as friends.

Jerry is in the Speaker’s gallery today, of course, and Katherine is in the members’ gallery. I would ask them both to rise and receive the traditional warm welcome of this Assembly. The Speaker: The hon. Associate Minister of Wellness, followed by Edmonton-Centre. 1:40 Mr. Rodney: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today we are very pleased to have the HealthPartners group visiting the Legislature with one of their partner charities, the Kidney Foundation.

HealthPartners is a unique collaboration of 16 of Canada’s most trusted national health charities, representing 87 per cent of Canadians who are likely to be affected by chronic disease. Now, this crucial organization offers a convenient way for individuals to donate to health charities such as the Kidney Foundation in the workplace. I hope that all hon. members were able to take some time to visit the HealthPartners’ kiosk located on the first floor of the Legislature r otunda earlier today to learn about the initiative.

HealthPartners is an exemplary charity-based initiative, and I’m very proud to introduce one of its national board members, Leigh Allard. As you might know, Leigh does so many things, including serving as the president and CEO of the Lung Association for Alberta and the Northwest Territories. I would ask that she accept our very, very warm applause and welcome to our fine Assembly. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Centre, followed by Calgary-Fish Creek. Ms Blakeman: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Now, you know how proud I am of all of the different agencies in the fabulous constituency of Edmonton-Centre. Today we have joining us some representatives, some ambassadors of Terra Centre. Terra serv es teen parents in Edmonton, and as part of their service for young moms at Braemar school they are running a youth leadership ambassador program to instill confidence and give them opportunities. So here’s one of their opportunities.

Joining us today in the public gallery with the facilitator, Laura Barry-Johansen, we have – and please stand when I call your name – Reyane McDermott, Kerry -Ann Crossman, Mercedes Larocque, Kaylin Schick, Stephanie Attwell, Teesha Taylor, Michelle Martel, Chantelle Gibbs. Laura, please rise. Please welcome these wonderful ambassadors to our Assembly. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Fish Creek, followed by the Minister of Justice. Mrs. Forsyth: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It’s my honour to rise and introduce to you and through you to all members of this Assembly an incredible advocate and someone I can now call a friend, Andrew McFadyen. Andrew is the founder of the Isaac Foundation, an organization that advocates for families and children affected by a debilitating disease called MPS. You’ll recall the efforts last summer to get treatment for Aleena Sadownyk, an adorable four -year-old suffering from MPS. It was through the efforts of Andrew that the battle for the funding was won.

Today Andrew has told me of another enzyme replacement therapy, that will be approved by Health Canada in June, which could greatly enrich the lives of six other Alberta children suffering from MPS. I know that the governme nt won’t hesitate in funding these children. I ask Andrew to rise and receive the warm welcome of the Assembly. The Speaker: The hon. Minister of Justice and Solicitor General, followed by Edmonton-Calder. Mr. Denis: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. It’s my privilege today to rise to introduce to you and through you to all members of the Assembly a very distinguished Albertan, Dr.

Allen Benson. Dr. Benson is the chief executive officer of Native Counselling Services of Alberta. I was pleased that today we announced a $200,000 grant to Native Counselling Services to write Gladue reports. Dr. Benson is a graduate of the University of Alberta with an honorary doctor of laws. Along with Dr. Benson is Patti LaBoucane-Benson and Gabriel Benson as well as Dr. Curt is Clarke, my ADM for corrections. I’d ask them to all please rise and receive the traditional warm welcome of this Assembly. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Calder. Mr. Eggen: Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Today I’m very pleased to introduce to you and through you to the Assembly a group of support staff from the seniors’ Churchill residence run by Revera. Meseret Kifle, Rhonda Wolfe, and Kevin Tirimba are all members of the AUPE. They are among the roughly 70 workers, including LPNs, health care workers, housekeepers, cooks, and services, who are in negotiations with Revera. Sitting with them is the AUPE vice-president, Mike Dempsey. If they could now please rise and receive the warm traditional welcome of the Assembly. The Speaker: Are there others?

If not, allow me to please say congratulations to our Ernest Manning award winners and also to introduce some of the board members and other volunteers who are here: Sol Rolingher – if you would please stand – Jennifer Diakiw, and Bob Bowhay, northern Alberta

chapter incoming vice-chair. Thank you, and congratulations to all of you on your hard work. Members’ Statements The Speaker: Hon. members, as you know, we each have two minutes for these statements. Let’s start with the Leader of Her

April 16, 2014 Alberta Hansard 475 Majesty’s Loyal Opposition, followed by Edmonton-Highlands - Norwood. Alberta Health Services Sole-source Contracts Ms Smith: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yesterday Wildrose revealed that AHS spent nearly $1 billion – that’s billion with a “b” – on sole-sourced untendered contracts in clear violation of its own contracting policies. This was a week after we revealed that AHS spent $250 million on outside consultants in just 18 months. That works out to some $460,000 every single day.

Now, sole -source contracts might be great for the bureaucrats in charge because it means less work for them, but they’re lousy for taxpayers. If AHS needs to be reminded, they deal in taxpayer dollars. It’s their duty to get the best bang for the buck. Speaking of which, Mr. Speaker, I want to highlight a few specific sole-source contracts that raised our eyebrows. You’ll recall that last week we revealed that a former AHS VP was sole sourced a $252,000 executive coaching contract the day after she left AHS with a million dollar pension. Pam Whitnack left AHS on August 31, 2011.

She received the contract the very next day. Also, between August 2011 and January 2012 Spearhead Executive Coaching was handed $88,000 for things like succession planning, capital management, and, of course, executive coaching. Now, who was an associate with Spearhead Executive Coaching? None other than Pam Whitnack. What a happy coincidence for the former AHS executive. Mr. Speaker, you can see why we are so concerned with how AHS conducts itself. We have known for quite some time that health care wait times in Alberta lag behind the rest of Canada, and they’re only getting worse.

Meanwhile AHS is flushing hundreds of millions of dollars away in lucrative handouts for their former executives and outside consul tants. The AHS bureaucracy is out of control, and patients are paying the price. What’s worse, all we get from this government is spin and excuses. AHS has failed, Mr. Speaker, and it’s time for leadership that will put patients first. The Speaker: Thank you. The hon. Member for Edmonton-Highlands-Norwood. Public Service Pensions Mr. Mason: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Public -sector workers are the backbone of our hospitals, our schools, our communities.

They are nurses, school aides, sheriffs, police officers, college teachers, garbage collectors. They are our front line, and we depend upon them. Now, with no proof of a crisis, this PC government is reneging on a promise made to generations of public -sector workers. Experts agree that Alberta’s public pension plans are among the most stable in Canada. The proactive steps taken by the p ension boards years ago will eliminate the unfunded liability within a dozen years.

As is par for the course with this government, the minister is now advancing legislation that will allow him to drastically and unilaterally affect the pension benefits of thousands of Albertans. He’s made his plan very clear. He wants to reduce the cost -of- living adjustment so that pension benefits will not keep up with inflation. The retirement factor of age plus service will be raised from 85 to 90, forcing people to wor k longer. Anyone hoping to retire early will see their benefits severely penalized.

Finally, he’s aiming at a cap on contributions, which means that in future economic downturns the plans may not be able to raise the money they need to maintain the benefit s. It could result in the end of the defined pension benefit, and pensioners will no longer be able to count on any kind of reliable fixed income. Take the example of an average worker with 25 years of service planning to retire at age 60 in 2030. He or s he makes the average yearly salary of $55,000. Under the changes that are proposed his monthly benefit would be just over $1,300, a loss of $241 a month. Mr.

Speaker, living on a fixed income, we know that every single penny counts, and $1,300 is not good enough. These proposed changes will condemn people who have worked for the public sector to a retirement at or near the poverty line. The minister is calling it a compromise, but there’s been no consultation with workers directly affected, and there’s no negotiation, just more dictation. The Speaker: Thank you. 1:50 Oral Question Period The Speaker: Thank you, hon. members. Three quick reminders: you have 35 seconds for each question, 35 seconds for each answer, and no

preambles, please, after the fifth main question. Also, I was asked to clarify the use of computers, laptops, that type of thing, and electronic devices. A memo is on your chair with respect to the procedural letter I sent to all of you on February 11. It has yellow highlighting. Please pay attention to it. Let’s start the clock, and let’s start with Her Majesty’s Loyal Opposition leader. Alberta Health Services Sole-source Contracts Ms Smith: Mr. Speaker, yesterday we revealed even more waste at AHS. First it was $250 million in outside c onsultants and now nearly a billion dollars in untendered contracts.

Last week we showed that a former AHS VP, Pam Whitnack, was handed a $250,000 executive coaching contract the day after she left AHS. This week we found out that another company, Spearhea d Executive Coaching, received $88,000 for the same services. And who is listed as a Spearhead associate? None other than Pam Whitnack. To the Premier: doesn’t he see a problem here? Mr. Hancock: Mr. Speaker, the opposition labelling things as waste and to ssing it out like that doesn’t actually make it so.

In fact, the vast majority of the money that went out on sole -source contracts from Alberta Health Services went to suppliers of health services and care centres. The policies are in place. The Auditor General will audit to ensure that actions are carried out in accordance with policy. The vast majority of the resources that are used are used well. Can we do better? Obviously, we can. Ms Smith: Mr. Speaker, Ms Whitnack must be the Vince Lombardi of executi ve coaches to keep on getting these sweetheart contracts.

I’d say that she’s more like the John Tortorella of executive coaches, coaching AHS executives out of their jobs all over the place. The bottom line is that there is no possible way to justify the s pending of this kind of money when wait times are getting longer and patient outcomes are getting worse. To the Premier: is he is going to go over the head of this incompetent Health minister and get to the bottom of what is happening in AHS? Mr. Hancock: Mr.

Speaker, what we see day after day in this House is an opposition leader who does not respect the fact that people make a contribution day after day in this province. One of

476 Alberta Hansard April 16, 2014 the people that she’s disrespecting is Pam Whitnack, who was the head of the C hinook health region for a number of years. The Chinook health region, as people may recall, was the health region that had the best example of primary care networks in the province and was renowned for some of the health service deliveries that it had. Now, I am not involved with Alberta Health Services in terms of why they hire people for executive coaching, but it does not become us to besmirch the character of people not in this House. Ms Smith: Mr.

Speaker, they gave her $250,000 the day after they let her go from AHS. It can’t be justified. This Premier has been on the job less than a month, and his head-in-the-sand routine is already getting old. We know he won’t be in the job very long, but that doesn’t mean he can’t make a difference. [interjection ] Albertans are looking to him to show leadership and a determination to change his government’s dismal performance of the last number of years. To the Premier: what is his legacy going to be, a placeholder and defender of PC failures or a champion of renewal in government? Mr. Hancock: Mr.

Speaker, I’ve never been one to worry about my legacy, but I will say that my record will speak for itself. In case you missed the sotto voce voice of the leader of the ND opposition, he warned the Leader of the Opposition that if she scares too many people off, I might just last longer than she thinks. The Speaker: Second main set of questions. Ms Smith: Oh, Mr. Speaker, we can only hope. Yesterday the Premier tried to downplay our revelations that AHS had a problem with sole -sourcing contracts by saying that the Auditor General thinks that’s all fine. That’s not what the Auditor General said.

Let me quote from page 128 of his October report, recommendations that are still not dealt with. “We recommend that [AHS] develop and implement a sole-sourcing policy for contracts and ensure that sole sourcing is clearly documented and justified.” Will the Premier admit that AHS is a disaster and lead the way in doing something about it? Mr. Hancock: Mr. Speaker, under the leadership of our Minister of Health, who is one of the most competent Health ministers in the country and has a wealth of experience in the area, we are doing exactly that.

We are making sure that Alberta Health Services deals with the issues it has. It’s a large operation. It has had some difficulties in bringing 11 organizations together to serve Albertans better. It’s well on its way to doing that. We can do better, and we will do better. But it won’t be as a result of people pulling things out of the corners and waving them in the air. It will be as a result of thoughtful action taken by this minister, this government, and this Alberta health care system. Ms Smith: Mr. Speaker, there is more. The Auditor General did review some AHS transactions, as the Premier said.

That was back in 2011. While he noted some progress, he wanted more. He said that without progress on this file “AHS will not have adequate support to justify sole -sourcing contracts.” Now, the documents we released are for sole-source contracts in 2012 and 2013. Any reasonable person will look at this and know that there’s a problem, or does the Premier think that sole sourcing contracts for fitness instructors, snow removal, and paper shredding is justified? Mr. Hancock: Mr. Speaker, I have no idea how the executives in charge would justify doing those contracts, but I do know this. There is a process.

There is a policy. They are required to adhere to that process and policy, and they’re held accountable against that process and policy not only by management, not only by this government, but by the Auditor General. The Auditor General has an ongoing review of sole -source contracts, as the hon. member has acknowledged. That process will continue. Obviously, Alberta Health Services knows that the Auditor General will be reporting on progress on a time -to-time basis, and they would obviously take that into account as they’re managing their processes. Ms Smith: Mr.

Speaker, the Premier seems offended that we ask questions about government spending and the waste of taxpayer dollars. Now, I will remind him that the Legislature has the power of the purse. Question period is the place where the executive is held to account for their decisions. When the cabinet wastes taxpayer money, we should all be offended. Will the Premier admit that af ter 43 years his government no longer cares about accountability and they’ve lost the moral authority to govern? [interjections] Mr. Hancock: There is no one who cares more about fiscal accountability and responsibility than this government.

This government puts taxpayer dollars first each and every day. I have never been offended by an appropriate question from the opposition or anyone else about my role and responsibility or about the government’s role and responsibility in the process. [interjections] What I am offended by are people who misinterpret the facts, throw things up in the air, combine things that shouldn’t be combined in order to create confusion and in order to create an expectation of waste when, in fact, there are appropriate processes in p lace to deal with accountability in an appro priate and understandable way.

The Speaker: Hon. leader, third set of questions. Former Premier’s Travel to Jasper Ms Smith: Well, Mr. Speaker, let’s just test that premise put on the table by the Premier, shall we? Yesterday we asked for details on one of the Premier’s taxpayer -funded trips. We want to know the details about any meetings the former Premier had with government officials in Jasper on the long weekend during last year’s flood. Taxpayers paid for the Premier to get to and from Jasper. We paid for her security detail. We paid for her stay and her staff’s stay at the luxury Jasper Park Lodge.

Taxpayers have a right to know: what government business was conducted in Jasper that weekend? Mr. Hancock: Mr. Speaker, the former Premier herself asked the Auditor General to look into the travel and expense policy, to review it, to see that it’s robust enough, and to use the Premier’s office as a sample in terms of determining how it’s being followed. That proce ss is in place. Any information that the Auditor General needs to do that review will be provided to them. That report presumably will be made available because he is an officer of the Legislature. Mr.

Speaker, we have appropriate processes to look into t hings. It’s not appropriate just to rise and make assumptions and aspersions and then try and believe that they’re facts. Our policy is that planes are used for government business. That’s our expectation. Ms Smith: Mr. Speaker, I am not asking the Premier to review every single item in the former Premier’s calendar, just one weekend. I remember that weekend well. It was the weekend

April 16, 2014 Alberta Hansard 477 when Albertans in my town and thousands of government workers, including a few cabinet ministers, were struggling to get the first of the residents of High River back into their homes. The former Premier was in Jasper. The documents say that it was for a meeting with government officials. Who did she meet with? 2:00 Mr. Hancock: Mr. Speaker, if we’re going to talk about what we remember, I can tell you that I as well remember the weekend well.

On the Sunday of the long weekend I was in Calgary with my deputy minister and with a number of colleagues going to the three centres that we had set up in Calgary, with a number of public s ervants who were also there on their long weekends helping to hand out cards to people who were displaced by the floods. [interjections] A lot of work was being done by a lot of people.

Now, some people were actually in other places in the province also doing work on the long weekend. [interjections] The Speaker: Hon. members it’s getting difficult to hear the questions and the answers, and I’m going to ask you: please, let’s be respectful of the questioner and the person answering. Ms Smith: Mr. Speaker, Albertans have seen the RCMP called in to investigate federal politicians who improperly used taxpayer dollars for personal gain. If the former Premier really had meetings in Jasper, fine, but if there were no meetings, then we have a big problem. It’s call ed breach of trust.

Will the Premier clear the air and tell us who the former Premier met with in Jasper that weekend, or is he saying that we should take this to the RCMP for investigation? Mr. Hancock: One of the things I know about our police in this province and this country, Mr. Speaker, is that they investigate criminal conduct that’s brought to their attention. They do not just investigate aspersions, and they do not just investigate because somebody says that something might have happened. [interjections] So the appropriate process is for the Auditor General to review as he’s been asked to do.

He has access to all the information. If they have information otherwise, it’s up to them to take it to th e police if they believe so, but I can tell them right now that the police will not investigate just on their say -so. They’ll have to have some actual evidence. The Speaker: The hon. leader of the Alberta Liberal opposition. FOIP Request Process Dr. Sherman: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Exactly one year ago I made a statement that government sees all FOIP requests.

The Health minister denied it, saying that it’s an independent process, but Alberta Liberals have a FOIP showing that not only are there weekly FOIP status reports but that Executive Council co - ordinated Service Alberta’s response to all our Liberal FOIPs. To the Premier, if FOIP is supposed to be an independent process, free of political interference, why isn’t it? Mr. Hancock: Mr. Speaker, I would believe that it is.

Just because Executive Council – i.e., the head of the civil service in this province – reviews and creates a process whereby FOIP requests, that are the same FOIP requests that are provided to all departments, are co-ordinated and synchronized and the best use is made of public resources in terms of answering, that does not equate to political interference. Peter Watson is the chief deputy minister of this government, and it’s his job to do the most effective use of resources in respondi ng to FOIP requests, as it is in other areas. Dr. Sherman: Mr. Speaker, this Premier is in charge of Executive Council.

One of the main reasons for the Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act is to make sure that access to government information is free from political interference. This government claims to have the gold standard of transparency. Well, let’s find out. This Alberta Liberal FOIP reveals that there are weekly FOIP reports. So I’m curious, Premier, just exactly who sees th ese reports – you, your ministers, chiefs of staff, executive assistants, political staffers – and what do they do with this information? Mr. Hancock: Once again, Mr. Speaker, the hon. member’s assumption is wrong.

Just because I am the leader of the party and the Premier of the province does not mean that I interfere with everything that the civil service does. In fact, Peter Watson is the chief deputy minister of Executive Council, and it’s his responsibility to make sure that all of government operations work well. [interjections] Now, by that member’s suggestion, we could never, ever release a FOIP report because every minister is responsible for their department and the Premier is responsible for the rest of it.

So you couldn’t do any of that. [interjec tions] The fact of the matter is that it’s set up appropriately, it works appropriately, and I don’t see any of the weekly reports. The Speaker: I’m sure the record will show several interjections because we actually have two microphones on the left walls, and two microphones over there. I think that’s enough. Okay? Thank you. Dr. Sherman: Shocking. He’s the Premier, and he doesn’t know what his right-hand deputy is doing. Mr.

Speaker, opposition members and journalists can tell you how common it is to get the runaround, get delayed, or get responses that have large chunks deleted, which is a nice way of saying “censored.” It’s almost as if this government has its own frequent-flyer program when it comes to responding to the opposition and the media FOIPs. To the Premier: why is this government undermining the integrity and independence of the FOIP process by controlling what, how, and when we receive our responses? Mr. Hancock: Well, the short answer is: it’s not.

The longer answer is that this hon. member is famous for bringing in his boxes and boxes of paper and no evidence. [interjections] Once again he’s casting aspersions on a process and casting aspersions on the people who carry out that process, with no evidence whatsoever that anything wrong is happening. [interjections] The fact of the matter is that we have a legislated FOIP process. That process is carried out appropriately. It’s carried out by civil servants, and appropriate information is made available when that happens.

Speaker’s Ruling Interrupting a Member The Speaker: I do have some of you listed for a question later, and I’d be remiss if I didn’t remind you of that because I would hate to see somebody lose their question because you’re speaking out of turn now. So be warned as of right now , okay? You know

478 Alberta Hansard April 16, 2014 who you are, and I’m not going to warn you again. All right? Thank you. Let’s go on, please, and be respectful. The leader of the ND opposition. Public Service Pensions Mr. Mason: Well, thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I’m sure the Premier knew he’d be left holding the baby, but he probably didn’t think it would be twins. Pensions are critical to our economy, crucial to keeping seniors healthy and out of poverty, and critical to attracting and retaining the quality staff we need for our public services.

To the Premier: will you stop pretending that you are trying to protect the pensions of public employees and stop the unnecessary attack on the pensions, which do so much for our economy, for seniors’ health, and for our public services? The Speaker: Thank you. Mr. Dallas: Well, hon. member, I think a review of what the Auditor General has said with respect to this is significant. You know that he conducted a review, that the report was released on February 13.

It’s clear that there needs to be recognition of some simple facts, the facts around the ratio of those contributing to the plan to those collecting from the plan and the mortality rates that have changed. Of course, there are a number of other factors. Simply, the time is now to add ress these problems in a very modest and . . . The Speaker: Thank you. First supplemental. Mr. Mason: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. The minister is pretending that the Auditor General has endorsed these changes, and that’s just not true.

Alberta Health Services used George & Bell, the same actuary that projected that pensions would be fully funded within 10 years, for a report on managing a legacy fund, so they think they’re credible. Yet this government isn’t listening to those experts. In fact, they won’t even negotiate with the hundreds of thousands of their own employees, who stand to lose hundreds of dollars a month from their retirement income. To the Premier: why won’t you listen to the responsible experts who say that these plans will be fu lly funded even if you don’t make any changes at all? Mr. Dallas: Mr.

Speaker, the hon. member references a study by George & Bell, and the problem with that particular study is the methodology. The forecast projected in the study, the numbers that were li kely chosen by the proponent of the study, indicated that the assumption would be that the assets would earn at least 5.75 per cent every year from now until 2023 and that there would be no other unexpected cost pressures. Those numbers simply are not appropriate for a study of this kind. The Speaker: Thank you. Final supplemental. Mr. Mason: Thanks very much, Mr. Speaker.

Well, employees and the unions that represent them, the plan boards themselves are willing to negotiate on changes to the pensions. It’ s just this government that refuses to negotiate, just like when they tried to freeze the wages of their own employees. Mr. Premier: will you please show good faith with the Albertans that work hard to provide our public services and go back to the negotia ting table and talk to them about these changes? Why don’t you negotiate instead of legislating? 2:10 Mr. Hancock: Mr. Speaker, the consultation process behind this particular change has been fairly long.

It was the middle of 2012 when the Provincial Treasurer went out to talk to the pension boards and others about what was needed to ensure that we had a sustainable pension plan so we could keep our pension promise to public servants. Throughout 2012 and into 2013 that discussion took place. In 2013 the Provincial Treasurer tabled some proposed changes to the pension plan for discussion, and that was open for discussion till December 2013. He then took the feedback that he got from that and built it into the response. The Speaker: Thank you. Seniors’ Housing for Couples Mr. Webber: Mr.

Speaker, many residents in my constituency have parents living in seniors’ housing e lsewhere in the city and throughout the province. I’ve heard concerns regarding divorce through separation. My constituents feel that there are parents that are suffering. Albertans that built the province we love must travel long distances to visit their most loved family members. It is important to quality of life to try and keep these couples together.

To the Associate Minister of Seniors: as recipients of Alberta seniors’ benefits do not qualify for Calgary senior citizens’ transit passes or a reduced r ate, is there some way that the province can help these individuals? The Speaker: Thank you. The hon. Associate Minister of Seniors. Mr. Quest: Mr. Speaker, thank you. With respect to couples in seniors’ housing our government, of course, has built up to 5,000 accommodation spaces in the last five years. Part of the design of these new buildings is that all of them have couple suites in them. They’re around the province, of course.

That is the end goal, actually, that instead of these folks having to move around with transit, they would actually be in the same facility. In some cases the different levels of care are drastically different, and it can’t always be accommodated. Mr. Webber: Minister, there are many seniors who are separated, and it’s a disgrace. Given that transportation is only part of this issue, what actual steps is the government taking to allow most of our vulnerable citizens the dignity of aging in the communities that they have helped build? Mr. Quest: Well, as I said, Mr.

Speaker, very specifically, the bricks-and-mortar part of it is that there are, in fact, new facilities being built all over Alberta that are being funded by the province or in partnership with not -for-profits or faith based. Also, in those facilities there are multiple levels of care. If one spouse requires a very high level of care, perhaps dementia or something of that nature, and the other one requires a lower level of care, they can be accommodated in the same facility. We are working towards that right now.

With r espect to the transit question that the hon. member brought up earlier, there is an AHS volunteer services area on their website. The Speaker: Thank you.

April 16, 2014 Alberta Hansard 479 Mr. Webber: To the same minister: will your ministry change its current mandate and make the reuniting of these couples a priority? Mr. Quest: Mr. Speaker, I don’t think there’s any mandate to be changed. We have the bricks and mortar and thousands of spaces around the province now, with plans, again, to meet our commitment to build the next 2,000 around the province, and part of that will be an increase in couples’ accommodations. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Fish Creek, followed by Calgary-Mackay-Nose Hill.

Alberta Health Services Sole-source Contracts (continued) Mrs. Forsyth: Yes. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yesterday we revealed that in two years AHS sole-sourced $1 billion in contracts. The Premier said that this was somehow all okay because it might have complied with policy. He missed the point. Gifting a billion dollars in contracts is not in the best interest of taxpayers. If tendering these saved only 1 per cent, that’s an extra $100 million. That would pay for 300 hip surgeries, 300 knee surgeries, and 100 heart surgeries. It’s not just about waste; it’s about getting dollars to the front line.

Why doesn’t the government do something about it? Mr. Hancock: Mr. Speaker, there’s a very clear policy in place. Alberta Health Services has thresholds for any contracts over $75,000 for goods and services and any contracts over $200,000 for construction contracts. Exemptions include: only one supplier can provide the service when no other supplier is qualified or an unforeseen situation of urgency exists; the subject matter, the procurement, is of a confidential and privileged nature; or an RFP or other competitive process has resulted in no proposals or bids. The point is that they manage these contracts.

They’re supposed to be managing them in an appropriate way, and the Auditor General will determine whether or not they have . . . The Speaker: Thank you. First supplemental. Mrs. Forsyth: Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. He walked into that one. Given that cab companies, couriers, and even Coca-Cola were all handed untendered contracts and given that all of these companies clearly have competitors that could have bid against them for deals – I personally like Pepsi – will the Premier admit that a policy that doesn’t require an attempt to get the best deal for taxpayers is a policy that clearly needs to be changed?

Mr. Hancock: Mr. Speaker, from the questions and answers that have happened in the House over the last few days, a number of things are clear: first of all, that there is a policy in place; secondly, that the Auditor General over the course of a number of reviews has been reviewing that policy and has been providing advice to Alberta Health Services with respect to what they need to do. It’s also clear that the Auditor General has sampled contracts from time to time – there’s at least one instance that I understand took place – and has indicated that the contracts met the poli cy at that time.

This hon. member could go back and pick something and talk about what brand of pop she likes, but the fact of the matter is . . . The Speaker: Thank you. Second and final supplemental. Mrs. Forsyth: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. What’s clear, Premier, is that you’re not following your own policy.

Given that when we revealed that a former AHS VP was gifted a $250,000 consulting contract the day after she resigned, the Minister of Health assured the House t hat he’d inquire with the AHS official administrator about the situation and it’s a week later and we haven’t heard anything, how can Albertans believe this government has any concern for the consistent abuse of taxpayer dollars? Mr. Hancock: Mr. Speaker, what Albertans can be assured of is that this government clearly has at its forefront the respect for every taxpayer dollar. We operate a budget of approximately $42 billion on a day -to-day basis.

That is important work. That’s important work in Health Ser vices; that’s important work in the other jurisdictions and other aspects of government. The hon. minister has indicated he will go back and have a look at that particular contract, but that is a contract that has been in place already. We are taking care of the public’s dollars on a day-to-day basis. We have processes in place to make sure that there isn’t waste, and we constantly strive to improve through our results - based budgeting. The Speaker: Thank you. Marigold Library System Funding Dr. Brown: Mr.

Speaker, the Marigold library system provides library services to 41 municipalities and 260,000 residents in south-central Alberta, including the fast -growing communities of Airdrie, Cochrane, High River, Okotoks, and Strathmore. It’s currently receiving i ts per capita funding based on 2010 population numbers. To the Minister of Municipal Affairs: given the rapid population growth in those areas, why are the 2010 figures being used to calculate library grants? The Speaker: The hon. associate minister. Mr. Weadick: Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m really happy to receive this question.

We’ve been very committed to our libraries. Even though over the last two or three years we’ve seen some challenges in our budgets, we’ve committed, we’ve held the line, and w e’ve kept funding for our libraries at $26 million for operating. That isn’t all we provide to libraries. We provide interlibrary loan services, the provincial library network. We also provide electronic content, resources for the print disabled, and improved high -speed Internet services. We are trying to support our libraries as best we can. Dr.

Brown: Looking forward, what does the minister intend to do to ensure that the library grant funding matches the current population growth, which is now depriving that system of about a hundred thousand dollars? The Speaker: The hon. minister responsible. Mr. Weadick: Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I said before, public libraries are incredibly important in our communities, especially in rural Alberta, where in many of our smaller communities it is the centre of the municipality.

Right now if we were to try to increase the dollars to match population, it would be a million and a half dollars this year and half a million dollars every year to keep up with that. We’ll continue to look at how we can do that. Libraries are funded in a partnership with our municipalities, so we’ll continue to work with them to ensure that

480 Alberta Hansard April 16, 2014 library services are available and that libraries continue to be the centre of our communities. The Speaker: Thank you. I see there is no second supplemental, so let’s move on. Highway Maintenance Contracts Mr. Stier: Mr. Speaker, after receiving complaints regarding highway maintenance, a FOIP request proved that out of six highway maintenance contractors one, known as Carillion, has been charged with the most penalties, 195 times, in fact, over the 2008 to 2012 period.

Despite this terribly poor record, Carillion Canada was given a new 10-year contract by Alberta Transportation in 2012, worth approximately $450 million. Can the minister responsible for this decision tell the people of Alberta why you rewarded such a poor performer with a 10-year contract? 2:20 Mr. Campbell: Well, Mr. Speaker, unfortunately, the minister is not here today, but he has told me that he is reviewing all the contracts. I’ll take this under advisement and get an answer to the member. The Speaker: First supplemental. Mr. Stier: Thank you.

Considering that four other contractors each had less than 20 fines during the same period that Carillion received 195, will Alberta Transportation continue to consider bids from this company when new highway contracts in other areas of Alberta go to tender this year? Mr. Dallas: Well, Mr. Speaker, I can only assume in the criteria for the letting of these important contracts that the safety aspect of road maintenance for all Albertans is critically important. I’m sure the criteria goes well bey ond the exceptions that the member acknowledges. We’ll be happy to bring this forward to the minister.

The Speaker: Final supplemental. Mr. Stier: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Well, given that Carillion obviously has been known for continuing to fail to provide acceptable levels of performance in the past, will the minister then please describe what performance measures and steps will be used to ensure this contractor completes future tasks in an appropriate and fully satisfactory manner? Mr. Dallas: Mr. Speaker, I’m sure the minister would be more than happy to discuss with the member the criteria for the letting of these maintenance contracts.

There is absolutely a robust series of criteria that is utilized to make these important selections. Safety is the number one priority. Obviously, the importance of our roads for all Albertans for market access goes without saying. The Speaker: Thank you. Please be reminded not to refer to the absence or presence of members. Let’s go on. Edmonton-Centre, followed by Edmonton-Beverly- Clareview. FOIP Request Process (continued) Ms Blakeman: Thanks very much, Mr. Speaker. It is very difficult and consuming of time and money to pry information out of this government.

Now, I’ve always suspected that requests from media and opposition were treated differently, and look what we found: government e -mails showing that Liberal FOIPs were intercepted by a deputy minister, then run through a committee for discussion, and then sent to cabinet for consultations. To the Minister of Accountability, Transparency and Transformation: why did Executive Council, the Premier’s office and cabinet, bend or break the rules of the FOIP Act? Mr. Scott: Mr.

Speaker, what I can say is that this government has an excellent record of responding to FOIP requests. [interjections] In 2010 and 2011 we responded to more than 4,200 FOIP requests; 90 per cent of those requests were responded to within 30 days, and 96 per cent of those requests were responded to within 60 days. We have an excellent record responding to FOIP requests. [interjections] Ms Blakeman: That doesn’t mean you didn’t interfere. The Speaker: Hon. member, let’s have your first supplemental. Could the rest of us please give her the floor without the yelling and the outbursts that we just heard? Please.

Ms Blakeman: Thank you very much. I can feel the attention. Back to the same minister: given that in the

definitions of FOIP a third party is a group other than government, why were we told that another 30 days were needed to consult a third party when it was Executive Council which was being consulted? Mr. Hancock: Mr. Speaker, I want to correct an assumption that was made by this hon. member in her first question, and that is that cabinet sees FOIP requests. I want to assure her that cabinet does not see FOIP requests. FOIP requests are handled under the provisions that are set out in the act and handled appropriately.

When it refers to Executive Council, it obviously refers to the chief deputy minister, who co-ordinates the activities of other civil servants in appropriately responding to FOIP requests. Ms Blakeman: Sorry; that’s just not what it says. Back to the Minister of Accountability, Transparency and Transformation: was the permission sought of the commissioner of freedom of information to allow extending time for multiple questions? That one would have been legit. Did you try it? Mr. Scott: Mr. Speaker, I’m not sure what the hon. member is asking for. We do have a good record.

There is a procedure in the act that can be followed.

Section 65 of the act provides a procedure that any person who makes a request under FOIP can go to the commissioner and follow up, and the commissioner has the power to investigate and take other measures under the act. There is an effective piece of legislation, and there are procedures that can be used under that legislation. School Infrastructure Priorities Mr. Bilous: Mr. Speaker, this week some Edmonton parents got the bad news that they have to sacrifice three community schools, shutting the doors forever, just to get one new school from this government.

But while childre n in Edmonton’s mature neighbourhoods are losing schools, this government is spending $7 million expanding Prairie Christian Academy, a school with discriminatory codes of conduct, where enrolment isn’t even growing. To the Premier: will you tell Albertans why public schools are being closed while schools like PCA are getting more dollars?

April 16, 2014 Alberta Hansard 481 Mr. Hancock: Mr. Speaker, in urban centres we have a problem with growth in the suburbs and requiring more schools there, but we have a lot of schools that no longer have the students they need to have a viable educational program. It makes sense to take three old schools out of circulation but to provide one new school with current, viable, and up- to-date equipment and a site for good learning opportunities for those students. Mr. Bilous: Mr.

Speaker, given that this PC government is dictating an arbitrary 3 to 1 policy, forcing school boards to close at least three schools to get one new one, ignoring local community needs such as demographics, student needs, and geography and given that, on the other hand, when it comes to ignoring universal human rights, you people can’t defer to boards fast enough, to the Premier: why are you being so hypocritical? Mr. Hancock: Mr. Speaker, school boards determine what their priorities are, but we do want to make sure that school boards use resources in appropriate ways.

It’s very difficult to use educational resources in an appropriate way if you have to heat old buildings that are only half or a quarter or 20 per cent full. When you ca n’t provide proper educational programming in that circumstance, it just makes sense to take old buildings out of circulation. But we do need to, when we do that, provide the proper educational experience and educational site in those areas, and that’s precisely what the policy does. Mr. Bilous: You should apply that to old governing parties. Mr.

Speaker, given that it’s this PC government that decides how much funding our school boards get and given that it’s this PC government that’s allowed deferred maintenance in our schools to grow and grow and grow, back to the Premier: will you admit that your PC government’s failure is forcing school boards to close mature neighbourhood schools? Mr. Hancock: Mr. Speaker, the experience of school boards that have old buildings is that they cannot keep those buildings open without devoting an awful lot of educational resources to doing so.

It makes sense at some point in time, when we don’t build a new school on every block today, to go back into those neighbourhoods and say: how can we create the right kind of educational opportunity for those students, take those buildings out of play that are no longer viable or valuable, but make sure that those students have a place to go to school in and near their neighbour - hood? PDD Supports Intensity Scale Mrs. Towle: According to the 2009 annual report the supports intensity scale, or SIS, is used to determine individual support needs and to develop service plans for individuals in the PDD system.

Last year we heard the p revious minister of PDD explain how effective and important this tool was. We now have a new minister, who has been travelling the province once again to hear from clients and those impacted by SIS assessments. Can the associate minister for persons with d evelopmental disabilities provide Albertans with his assessment of SIS and its effectiveness in determining need and funding? The Speaker: The hon. associate minister. Mr. Bhardwaj: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. SIS is only one of the tools which is us ed to establish just a baseline of the needs of the individual.

There’s a philosophical difference between asset based or needs based. We have chosen to take the needs of the individuals, their goals, and their aspirations and meet those needs. That’s what SIS is all about. Mrs.

Towle: Given that on April 3 the associate minister addressed the Alberta Disabilities Forum and expressed that he has heard multiple concerns from families and service providers around the flaws of the supports intensity scale, whi ch is exactly what the previous minister heard as well, and given that at that same forum the minister himself agreed that SIS does not work, can the minister tell families and organizations what he is going to do about a program that he himself admits doesn’t even work? 2:30 Mr. Bhardwaj: Mr. Speaker, SIS is one of the tools.

When I travel the province and talk to a number of different families, the impact of the SIS and having challenges with the SIS – we have a focus group who is going to be travelling t he province, meeting the individuals and the families who want to be reassessed. We’re going to be meeting the needs of those individuals. The forum she’s talking about: yes, I did acknowledge that there are people who are asking to be reassessed. We’re ab solutely going to be meeting the needs of those individuals. Mrs. Towle: Great.

So we’re going to spend more money on the same focus groups the previous minister already spent money on. Given that on April 3 this minister said that the supports intensity scale doesn’t work and that the previous minister already did his focus groups all last year and heard that SIS does not work and that families and service providers have repeatedly said that SIS doesn’t work, how can the minister possibly assure vulnerable Albertans and their families they will receive the support that they require if the very system they’re using to assess them doesn’t work? Mr. Bhardwaj: Mr.

Speaker, I have never said that the system does not work. What I have said is that part of the PD D transformation is about meeting the needs of the individuals: their needs, their goals, their aspirations. SIS is one of the tools which is used right across the province to have a consistent approach to providing services to the most vulnerable. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Hawkwood, followed by Highwood. Calgary Aging in Place Initiative Mr. Luan: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Responding to the rising needs of seniors, we in Calgary -Hawkwood have launched the aging in place pilot.

This pilot focuses on a continuum of services to keep seniors living in our community. It includes soft services such as snow shovelling, grocery shopping, doctors’ appointments, and also infrastructure support such as assisted housing arrangements. The pilot will utilize a community -based model to encourage people to take

part in decisions that impact their future. My question is to the hon. Associate Minister of Seniors. Given the competing demands in this area, is there . . . The Speaker: Thank you, hon. member. The Associate Minister of Seniors. Mr. Quest: Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to thank the people of the Calgary-Hawkwood constituency and, of course, this hon. member for starting this pilot project, that’s dedicated to helping seniors to thrive and stay in their communities. He’s

482 Alberta Hansard April 16, 2014 talking about soft services. I know where he’s going. The government is committed to providing supports and care options to help seniors age in place. As a matter of fact, w e have the strongest seniors’ supports in Canada, including the special -needs assistance program and the property tax deferral program, which could perhaps be helpful in this case. It’s a pilot project, as the member said, and we look forward to working wi th those folks and finding out how it’s gone. The Speaker: First supplemental, hon. member. Mr. Luan: Thank you.

To the same minister: given that a community grassroots program like this one will benefit a great deal from professional facilitation, if no m oney is clearly identified for such a program, can you offer some support from an HR point of view? Mr. Quest: Well, Mr. Speaker, as I say, it’s a pilot program, so this is all open to discussion. Volunteers like the community members in this project have given generously of their time and their talent. We very much appreciate that. Again, we look forward to working with them.

Soft services is an area that we need to get some work done in because it is all part of our strategy to help seniors age in place. Having some options for seniors for those services is all part of that. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Luan: Last but not least, if the minister is unable to promise any specific dollars or people, can you at least commit yourself to coming to the aging in place community fair that we will be hosting on Saturday, October 4, 2014, so that you can learn from those fantastic volunteers what they are intending to do and how you can help them? Mr.

Quest: Well, I’d like to learn more about what they’re doing, Mr. Speaker. That sounds like a good opportunity to do that. Perhaps we can, hopefully, have an opportunity to sit down and chat about how it’s going before then. But if there’s an event on that day,

schedule permitting, I’d love to be there. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Highwood, followed by St. Albert. Okotoks Health and Wellness Centre Parking Ms Smith: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question to ask the Wellness minister on behalf of my const ituents. In July 2006 Alberta Health Services was given a report, conducted on their behalf, regarding the use of the Okotoks health and wellness centre. It identified a growing need to increase the number of parking stalls available for both staff and vis itors.

Although Okotoks has seen remarkable growth since that time, nothing has been done to increase parking at the site. Can the minister tell my constituents what plans are in place to improve access to this important community facility? Mr. Rodney: Well, I would personally like to thank the opposition leader for bringing up wellness. It’s, I believe, the first time in two years that we’ve had a question from the opposition. I just kind of wonder where it’s been on their priority list.

I would expect that she agrees that we want to do everything that we can to be positive, proactive, preventative in our programs and policies. I’m happy to look into this exact file. The Speaker: First sup. Ms Smith: Thanks, Mr. Speaker.

Given that in this same report it was identified that urgent care, located in the Okotoks health and wellness centre, sees over 75 patients a day and given that patients going to the medical laboratory, family resource centre, and other community health and wellness services adds hundreds and hundreds of people a day at the facility and they need parking, can the minister indicate when new parking stalls will be made available at the Okotoks health and wellness centre? Mr.

Rodney: Having been to the fine facility on more than one occasion and seeing the great work that the great people do there, I am very happy to do what I can to see that they have what they need. I’m happy to discuss this, as mentioned, with the Health minister, and we will get back to you. The Speaker: Final supplemental. Ms Smith: Thanks, Mr. Speaker. They did have another suggestion.

The Healthy Okotoks Coalition has written a number of letters to both the Health minister and AHS executives, unfortunately to no avai l, but they have prepared a proposal that would have qualified volunteers remove sod and make a gravel parking lot at the Okotoks health and wellness centre. Will the minister commit to immediately addressing the parking needs at this facility, or will he give these volunteers permission to do the work themselves? Mr. Rodney: Well, as mentioned in my previous answer, I’m very happy to talk to the Health minister. I kind of wish that I had seen a copy of that.

But let’s face it: my bailiwick is to do with programs and policies that are really about keeping people happy, healthy, and out of the hospital as much as possible, to increase the quality of life for Albertans while decreasing health care taxes and costs, and I know that we would agree on that. As mentioned, I am happy to bring this up with the Health minister in the next week. The Speaker: Thank you. The hon. Member for St. Albert, followed by Strathmore-Brooks. Chronic Fatigue Syndrome Mr. Khan: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Dr. Shawna Rodnunsky is a constituent of mine in St. Albert. Dr.

Rodnunsky has visited my office a number of times to raise awareness and voice her concerns to me regarding supports for patients with chronic fatigue syndrome. CFS is a physical illness that makes those who suffer from this condition debilitated and unable to do all normal daily activities. To the Associate Minister of Wellness: what services, treatments, or supports are available in Alberta to help those diagnosed with CFS? The Speaker: The hon. associate minister. Mr. Rodney: Thank you very much, Mr.

Speaker, and thank you to the hon. member for his advocacy on this very personal and, obviously, very important issue not just for the person in question but for others across Alberta. I believe that he knows that our government recognizes that chronic fatigue syndrome is a complex health issue and that it has debilitating effects on those who suffer from it. As with most chronic illnesses we truly appreciate that our primary health care providers, our family physicians and our practitioners, are those in the best position to provide care for Albertans across the province.

April 16, 2014 Alberta Hansard 483 The Speaker: First supplemental. Mr. Khan: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the same minister: given that the current understanding of chronic fatigue syndrome i s, as the minister points out, still very limited, will your ministry work with health care professionals to expand the awareness, diagnosis, and treatment of chronic fatigue syndrome and related conditions? Mr. Rodney: Mr.

Speaker, I am very pleased to sh are with the hon. member that our government is currently working closely with Alberta Health Services to improve chronic health disease management and to improve province -wide best practices in this area. Along with the Health ministry and AHS we’ll continue to look to new research not just across the country but around the world. It’s a similar approach that’s led to success in many other areas. As we continue to learn more about CFS, we’ll continue to work with our partners to not only raise awareness ba sed on best information available but to apply it as well. Mr.

Khan: Well, thank you for that, Mr. Minister. To the same minister again: given that chronic fatigue syndrome is, as he points out, a complicated disorder and many patients are desperately in n eed of care, will your ministry allocate more resources to help those diagnosed with CFS? 2:40 Mr. Rodney: Another great question. I can tell the member and the people of the province that our government is very strongly focused on improving access to primary health care services for Albertans and helping more people to manage chronic diseases and illnesses within their communities.

That’s why I really want to take the opportunity to thank those that are on the front line. They’re really in the best position and are the main publicly funded supports available to assist all those who are coping with CFS and othe r chronic diseases across Alberta. Mr. Speaker, I want to assure the member that I will take his questions and suggestions forward to the Minister of Health. Thank you. The Speaker: Thank you. Hon. members, in 30 seconds from now we will continue with private members’ statements. Members’ Statements (continued) Armenian Genocide Mrs. Jablonski: Mr.

Speaker, she was only three years old. She was just a toddler. That was how old my Armenian grandmother was when she was taken from her mother’s arms. It w as her good neighbours, her Turkish neighbours, who offered to say that she was their daughter and to care for her as their own. They said that she was too little to keep quiet when her family had to hide, and they would keep her safe until her family returned. The 99th commemoration of the Armenian genocide will take place on Thursday, April 24 around the world.

You probably won’t read about it in the newspapers, yet what was done to Armenians at the hands of the Ottoman Empire in 1915 marked the first ge nocide of the 20th century. A genocide denied is a genocide repeated, and, oh, how we have repeated the horror of this statement. The international community failed to hold the perpetrators of the Armenian genocide accountable for their crimes, and this has encouraged crimes against humanity, including the Jewish holocaust, the Ukrainian Holodomor, Cambodia, Rwanda, Darfur, and now Syria. Mr. Speaker, denial prevents healing.

I quote from the dissertation by Ashley Kalagian Blunt that I will table today. The global recognition and remembrance of the Armenian genocide is an issue that has personal significance for Armenians as well as political significance for the world community . . . In light of this, it seems imperative for Armenians to continue to advocate for genocide recognition and Turkish admittance of responsibility. On April 21, 2004, our Canadian government officially recognized the Armenian genocide. This is a monumental step towards eliminating future genocides, but it is not enough.

As long as nations in the world continue to deny genocides and accept alterations to the facts of history, we will continue to face systematic annihilations of entire cultures. Hope does survive, Mr. Speaker, because of loving and kind people like the Turkish famil y that saved my grandmother, Mariam Kalagian, and taught her that love is better than hate. I call upon the Turkish government to recognize the Armenian genocide and to stop trying to alter the historical . . . The Speaker: Thank you, hon. member. The hon. Member for Grande Prairie-Smoky , followed by Calgary-Varsity. Peace Wapiti School Division Mr.

McDonald: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It’s a pleasure today to talk about a school in one of my communities called Teepee Creek and talk about their school board a little bit, the Peace Wapiti school division. Teepee Creek is a small farming community approximately 50 kilometres from Grande Prairie to the northwest. This small rural school hosts approximately 80 students ranging from kindergarten all the way throu gh to grade 8, with five classrooms, a gymnasium, a computer room, and a library. This is the oldest school in the Peace Wapiti school board, and it was built in 1955.

This school is one of the 70 schools recently approved for modernization, which has already begun. This school also offers specialty programs, including counselling, early literacy, intervention, speech pathology services, an individual classroom project program, as well as swimming programs. The Peace Wapiti school division consists of mor e than 5,600 students in 32 schools.

Peace Wapiti school board’s mandate states that it is “responsible for the provision and maintenance of an educational environment that enables all students to achieve their potential to become productive members of a changing society.” Both the Teepee Creek school and the Peace Wapiti public school board have huge impacts on the residents in these communities and the surrounding area. These organizations enrich individuals and allow them to fulfill themselves. My constituents are blessed to host these organizations, and I wish them the best in the future. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Speaker: The hon.

Member for Calgary-Varsity, followed by Livingstone-Macleod. Deaths of Calgary Students Ms Kennedy-Glans: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In the past I’ve always been pleased to rise and report on what is happening in my constituency of Calgary -Varsity. I never dreamed that I would ever have to rise and speak on such a senseless tragedy as we have

484 Alberta Hansard April 16, 2014 endured this week. Yesterday resi dents of Brentwood awoke to a nightmare. Five young people had been murdered while celebrating the end of their semester at the University of Calgary. Lawrence Hong, Josh Hunter, Kaitlin Perras, Zackariah Rathwell, and Jordan Segura all had their dreams, futures, and lives brutally torn away by a horrific act of violence. As a mother with a son currently attending university, I can only imagine the heartbreak their parents are feeling.

I know that all members in this House join in offering our condolences and deepest sorrows to their families and to their loved ones. Ever since Calgary-Varsity was formed in 1993, students and seniors have lived side by side, one generation supporting the other. Students and seniors are the heart and soul of our constituency. Students are our future. They embody our dreams for a better Alberta. Five sets of dreams have been forever silenced this week, and the sadness of this act will weigh on our hearts for a very long time. It has diminished our community and our city.

It’s natural to ask how someone could lash out in such anger and also how we can keep ourselve s and our communities safe from such hatred. Such answers to these questions w ill come as the investigation proceeds, and others will need much more reflection. What we can do right now is to be proud of the University of Calgary’s compassionate response. We can be grateful for the effective and determined response of the Calgary Police Service in swiftly apprehending the suspect. Lastly, we can be confident in the ability of our city and community to come together and . . . The Speaker: Thank you, hon. member.

Highway Construction and Maintenance Mr. Stier: Mr. Speaker, through the process of discussing the budget for the Ministry of Transportation, the overriding resulting impression was that this so vital a department to our province is sadly far behind in terms of exis ting infrastructure, maintenance, and expansion plus that the department severely lacks the ability to address the immense long-term deficit in highway construction projects that need to be completed.

From the north end of Alberta, where our heavy industries need better access routes and infrastructure to deliver their co mponents for the construction of their facilities, to the southern region, where the main routes out of the province are so severely constricted that their size and conditions limit our abilities to easily ship our products, the main transportation corridors need enhancements immediately to prevent the further decline of our ability to properly and safely participate in world trade.

In terms of maintenance, accordin g to the Transportation business plan of ’14-17, the physical condition of provincial highway services is far below reasonable expectations, where fewer than 59 per cent are in good condition, fewer than 27 per cent are in fair condition, and over 15 per cent are in poor condition.

Regarding key postponed construction projects, the twinning of highway 3, for example, which is the southern major transportation corridor to the border and to the shipping terminals at the coast in B.C., that was confirmed to be a bottleneck type of problem, that was confirmed to be constructed by the Premier of this province in 2007, has been studied, designed, yet it has been ignored. Mr.

Speaker, considering all of the above, it is hard to understand how a province with the highest revenue in Canada cannot adequately fulfill their obligations to maintain our highway and road network and address this enormous infrastructure deficit. Yet this same ministry claims that it provides a world-class transportation system that supports Alberta’s economy and quality of life. Really? Not according to the facts as we in the public see it. Thank you. 2:50 Presenting Petitions The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-McClung. Mr. Xiao: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

As the chair of the Standing Committee on Private Bills I beg leave to present the following petitions that have been received for private bills under Standing Order 98(2). (1) the petition of Dr. Lyle Oberg and Dr. Terrence H. White, directors of the Rosebud School of the Arts, for the Rosebud School of the Arts Amendment Act, 2014. (2) the petition of Patricia Goodwill-Littlechild, executive director of Maskwachees Cultural College, and Dennis Callihoo, legal counsel for Maskwachees Cultural College, for the Maskwachees Cultural College Amendment Act, 2014. Thank you. The Speaker: Thank you.

Introduction of Bills The Speaker: The hon. Minister and International and Intergovern- mental Relations. Bill 9 Public Sector Pension Plans Amendment Act, 2014 Mr. Dallas: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On behalf of the hon. President of Treasury Board and Minister of Finance I’m pleased to rise today and introduce Bill 9, the Public Sector Pension Plans Amendment Act, 2014. Mr. Speaker, public-sector pension plans, like many across North America, face serious challenges. People are collecting pensions for longer while the number of retirees is rising, causing a bigger cost burden to fall on active plan members.

The situation is further compounded by continuing low interest rates expected to trend in future years. The President of Treasury Board and Minister of Finance as the trustee of these plans has a fiduciary duty to plan members and to taxpayers. The proposed changes in the bill strike the right balance between all stakeholders. By acting now with some modest course corrections, we avoi d leaving future generations of plan members and taxpayers with significant problems to deal with later. The Speaker: Did I hear you move first reading? Mr. Dallas: Yes. The Speaker: I think I did.

Thank you. [Motion carried; Bill 9 read a first time] The Speaker: The hon. Minister of International and Intergovern- mental Relations. Bill 10 Employment Pension (Private Sector) Plans Amendment Act, 2014 Mr. Dallas: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On behalf of the hon. President of Treasury Board and Minister of Finance I’m pleased

April 16, 2014 Alberta Hansard 485 to rise today and introduce Bill 10, the Employment Pension (Private Sector) Plans Amendment Act, 2014. Mr. Speaker, this bill will affect pension plans offered in the private sector and should not be confused with the work we are doing on public -sector sustainability in Bill 9. What the employment pension plans amendment act will do is permit defined benefit pension plans in the private sector to convert previously accrued defined benefits into target benefits as well as also address some required housekeeping changes.

By allowing these proposed changes, we will be helping private employers address some of the challenges they are facing, including pension plans that are too costly to maintain. In an era when pension plan coverage is very low, legislation should be aimed at encouraging those who have pension plans to continue to do so. This amendment will contribute to that goal. Thank you. [Motion carried; Bill 10 read a first time] Tabling Returns and Reports The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Highlands-Norwood. Your first of two. Mr. Mason: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I have two tablings today.

The first is copies of a petition with approximately 2,000 signatures from the Alberta Federation of Labour. The petition is gaining hundreds of signatures every day and is calling on the government to pass legislation that will ensure that any changes to the LAPP or the PSPP are the result of direct negotiations between the government and the affected employees. My second tabling, Mr. Speaker, is 50 of over 4,000 postcards that our office has received asking the PC government to restore consistent and reliable funding to postsecondary educati on in Alberta.

The postcards, collected by the Non -Academic Staff Association at the University of Alberta, are clear evidence that the government needs to listen to the demands of Albertans for a well-funded postsecondary system which is accessible and affordable for all. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Speaker: Thank you. The hon. Member for Red Deer -North, followed by Edmonton- Meadowlark. Mrs. Jablonski: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to table five copies of a dissertation written by my niece Ashley Kalagian Blunt as part of her master’s degree in cultural studies at the University of Sydney.

The dissertation states that nearly one hundred years have passed since the Armenian genocide, which prefaced and in some ways encouraged the Holocaust – yet the Turkish government continues to deny the genocide and uses political manipulation to prevent its recognition by other nations. The Speaker: The hon. leader of the Liberal opposition or someone on behalf of. Ms Blakeman: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. On behalf of the leader of the Liberal opposition I table copies of Hansard from April 16, 2013, which he referenced during his questions this afternoon. May I continue with my own tablings?

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I also have the appropriate number of copies of a selection, I believe, of documents that we received from a FOIP, including ones that talk about: “Executive Council (EC) did request the ARTS Lists are to be sent over after your consultation with Leg al Counsel.” There are a number of other references where they talk about deputy ministers being involved or getting the approval of cabinet or getting the consultation of Executive Council. Thank you very much. Dr.

Swann: I have the appropriate number of copies of a tabling from the Ministry of Energy in Ontario called Creating Cleaner Air in Ontario. Ontario is now the first jurisdiction in North America to fully eliminate coal as a source of electricity generation. The minister had this to say. Getting off coal is the single largest climate change initiative undertaken in North America and is equivalent to taking up to seven million cars off the road. Today we celebrate a cleaner future for our children and grandchildren while embracing the environmental benefits that our cleaner energy sources will bring.

Signed by Bob Chiarelli, Minister of Energy. Thanks, Mr. Speaker. Tablings to the Clerk The Clerk: I wish to advise the House that the following document was deposited with the office of the Clerk: on behalf of Dr. Sherman, hon. Member for Edmonton -Meadowlark, a letter dated April 7, 2014, from Dr. Sherman, leader of the Liberal opposition, to Merwan S aher, Auditor General, requesting an investigation regarding the circumstances surrounding all contracts awarded by the government of Alberta to Navigator Ltd. since 2008. Statement by the Speaker Mr.

Speaker’s MLA for a Day Program The Speaker: Thank you, hon. members. We have no points of order today, but I’d like to draw to your attention the MLA for a Day program. I’ve received notes from some of you yesterday and today. As you know, the cut-off was Monday, but there were some hiccups with some of the machines, so I’ve spoken with the Sergeant-at-Arms and visitor services, and the deadline has been extended only to the end of today. We have just over 70 representatives.

It takes a lot to co -ordinate this, so please if you have anyone interested, let me or the Sergeant -at-Arms know before the end of day today. Thank you very much for your support. 3:00 Orders of the Day Committee of Supply [Mrs. Jablonski in the chair] The Deputy Chair: Hon. members, I would now like to call the committee to order. Prior to beginning, the chair will outline the process for this afternoon. The Committee of Supply will first call on the chairs of the legislative policy committees to report on their meetings with the various ministries under their mandate.

No vote is required when these reports are presented according to Standing Order 59.01(10). Members are reminded that there were amendments introduced during the legislative policy committee meetings, so the committee will vote on all proposed amendments.

486 Alberta Hansard April 16, 2014 The committee will then proceed to the vote on the estimates of the Legislative Assembly as approved by the Special Standing Committee on Members’ Services. The vote on the main estimates will then take place. The estimates of two ministries will then be voted on sepa rately pursuant to Standing Order 59.03(1)(

b) in accordance with notice provided by the Liberal opposition House leader to the Clerk on April 15, 2014. The final vote on the main estimates will consist of any ministries not yet voted upon. Finally, the ch air would like to remind all hon. members of Standing Order 32(3.1), which provides that after the first division is called in Committee of Supply during the vote on the main estimates, the interval between division bells shall be reduced to one minute for any subsequent division.

Committee Reports The Deputy Chair: I would now like to invite the chair of the Standing Committee on Alberta’s Economic Future to present the committee’s report. Mr. Amery: Well, thank you, Madam Chair.

As chair of the Standing Committee on Alberta’s Economic Future pursuant to Standing Order 59.01(10) I am pleased to report that the committee has reviewed the 2014 -15 proposed estimates and business plans for the following m inistries: Executive Council, two hours; the Ministry of Agriculture and Rural Development; the Ministry of Infrastructure; the Ministry of Innovation and Advanced Education; the Ministry of International and Intergovern- mental Relations; the Ministry of J obs, Skills, Training and Labour; the Ministry of Tourism, Parks and Recreation.

Madam Chair, I would like to table amendments to the following ministries that were introduced during the meetings for the Committee of Supply’s consideration: Executive Council, one amendment; the Ministry of International and Intergovernmental Relations, one amendment. Thank you, Madam Chair. The Deputy Chair: Thank you. I would now like to call on the chair of the Standing Committee on Families and Communities to present the committee’s report. Ms Olesen: Thank you, Madam Chair.

As chair of the Standing Committee on Families and Communities and pursuant to Standing Order 59.01(10) I am pleased to report that the committee has reviewed the 2014 -15 proposed estimates and business plans for the following ministries: the Ministry of Culture, the Ministry of Education, the Ministry of Health, the Ministry of Human Services, the Ministry of Justice and Solicitor General, the Ministry of Service Alberta.

I’d also like to table am endments to the following ministries that were introduced during our meetings for the Committee of Supply’s consideration: the Ministry of Service Alberta, one amendment; the Ministry of Human Services, one amendment; and the Ministry of Health, one amendment. Thank you. The Deputy Chair: Thank you. Now the chair of the Standing Committee on Resource Stewardship. Mr. Khan: Thank you, Madam Chair.

As chair of the Standing Committee on Resource Stewardship and pursuant to Standing Order 59.01(10) I’m please d to report that the committee has reviewed the 2014-15 proposed estimates and business plans for the following ministries: the Ministry of Aboriginal Relations, the Ministry of Energy, the Ministry of Environment and Sustainable Resource Development, the Ministry of Municipal Affairs, the Ministry of Transportation, the Ministry of Treasury Board and Finance.

I’d also like to table amendments to the following ministries that were introduced during our meetings for the Committee of Supply’s consideration: the Ministry of Energy, one amendment; the Ministry of Municipal Affairs, one amendment. Thank you, Madam Chair. The Deputy Chair: Thank you. Vote on Main Estimates 2014-15 The Deputy Chair: The next item of business is the vote on the amendments introduced during the legislative policy committee meetings. There are a total of seven amendments, and they will be identified as amendments A1 to A7. Members have received copies of all the amendments on their desks.

We will begin with A1 and carry on in sequence. A1. Mr. Mason moved that the estimates for the associate minister’s office under reference 1.2 at page 66 of the 2014-15 main estimates of the Ministry of Energy be reduced by $250,000 so that the amount to be voted at page 65 for operational is $427,147,000. [Motion on amendment A1 lost] A2. Mr.

Mason moved that the estimates for the office of the Premier/Executive Council under reference 1.1 at page 94 of the 2014-15 main estimates of the Executive Council be reduced by $911,000 so that the amount to be voted at page 93 for operational is $47,486,000. [Motion on amendment A2 lost] Mr. Mason: Madam Chair, are we allowed to speak to these amendments? The Deputy Chair: There is no debate on these amendments. Thank you. A3. Mr.

Eggen moved that the estimates for the associate minister’s office under reference 1.2 at page 100 of the 2014-15 main estimates of the Ministry of Health be reduced by $561,000 so that the amount to be voted at page 99 for operational is $18,246,948,000. [Motion on amendment A3 lost] A4. Ms Notley moved that the estimates for the associate minister’s office under reference 1.2 at page 112 of the 2014-15 main estimates of the Ministry of Human Services be reduced by $673,000 so that the amount to be voted at page 111 for operational is $4,088,295,000. [Motion on amendment A4 lost] A5. Mr.

Mason moved that the estimates for the associate minister’s office under reference 1.2 at page 144 of the 2014-15 main estimates of the Ministry of International and Intergovernmental Relations be reduced by $250,000 so that the amount to be voted at page 143 for operational is $39,160,000. [Motion on amendment A5 lost] A6. Mr. Bilous moved that the estimates for the associate minister’s office under reference 1.2 at page 172 of the

April 16, 2014 Alberta Hansard 487 2014-15 main estimates of the Ministry of Municipal Affairs be reduced by $286,000 so that the amount to be voted at page 171 for operational is $422,949,000. [Motion on amendment A6 lost] A7. Mr.

Eggen moved that the estimates for the associate minister’s office under reference 1.2 at page 190 of the 2014-15 main estimates of the Ministry of Service Alberta be reduced by $260,000 so that the amount to be voted at page 189 for operational is $295,223,000. [Motion on amendment A7 lost] The Deputy Chair: We shall now proceed to the vote on the estimates of the Legislative Assembly as approved by the Special Standing Committee on Members’ Services.

Hon. members, pursuant to Standing Order 59.03(5), which requires that the estimates of the offices of the Legislative Assembl y be decided without debate or amendment prior to the vote on the main estimates, I must now put the following question on all matters relating to the 2014 -15 offices of the Legislative Assembly estimates for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2015. Agreed to: Offices of the Legislative Assembly $128,313,000 The Deputy Chair: Shall the vote be reported? Hon. Members: Agreed. The Deputy Chair: Opposed? That’s carried.

We shall now proceed to the vote on the estimates of the two ministries which will be voted on separately pursuant to Standing Order 59.03(1)(

b) and in accordance with notice provided by the Liberal opposition House leader to the Clerk on April 15, 2014. Agreed to: Aboriginal Relations Operational $205,861,000 Capital $25,000 Financial Transactions $96,161,000 The Deputy Chair: Shall the vote be reported? Hon. Members: Agreed. The Deputy Chair: Opposed? That is carried. Agreed to: Agriculture and Rural Development Operational $632,769,000 Capital $28,196,000 The Deputy Chair: Shall the vote be reported? Hon. Members: Agreed. The Deputy Chair: Opposed? Carried. We shall now proceed to the final vote on the main estimates.

Those members in favour of the remaining resolutions for the 2014-15 government estimates for the general revenue fund and lottery fund for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2015, please say aye. Hon. Members: Aye. The Deputy Chair: Opposed? That is carried. Shall the vote be reported? Hon. Members: Agreed. The Deputy Chair: Opposed? Carried. I would now invite the hon. Government House Leader to move that the committee rise and report the 2014 -15 offices of the Legislative Assembly estimates and the 2014 -15 government estimates for the general revenue fund and lottery fund. 3:10 Mr.

Campbell: Thank you, Madam Chair. I move that the committee rise and report the 2014 -2015 offices of the Legislative Assembly estimates and the 2014-15 government estimates for the general revenue fund and the lottery fund. [Motion carried] [Mrs. Jablonski in the chair] Dr. Brown: Madam Speaker, the Committee of Supply has had under consideration certain resolutions relating to the 2014- 2015 offices of the Legislative Assembly estimates and the 2014 -2015 government estimates for the general revenue fund and lottery fund, reports as follows, and requests leave to sit again.

The following resolutions for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2015, have been approved. Offices of the Legislative Assembly. Support to the Legislative Assembly, $69,415,000; office of the Auditor General, $27,300,000; off ice of the Ombudsman, $3,349,000; office of the Chief Electoral Officer, $6,517,000; office of the Ethics Commissioner, $973,000; office of the Information and Privacy Commissioner, $6,983,000; office of the Child and Youth Advocate, $12,502,000; office of the Public Interest Commissioner, $1,274,000. The government main estimates.

Aboriginal Relations: operational, $205,861,000; capital, $25,000; financial transactions, $96,161,000. Agriculture and Rural Development: operational, $632,769,000; capital, $28,196,000. Culture: operational, $157,473,000; capital, $48,800,000; financial transactions, $2,370,000. Education: operational, $4,238,760,000; capital, $666,862,000; financial transactions, $11,924,000. Energy: operational, $427,397,000; capital, $6,315,000. Environment and Sustainable Resource Development: operational, $493,777,000; capital, $60,082,000; financial transactions, $1,410,000. Executive Council: operational, $48,397,000.

Health: operational, $18,247,509,000; capital, $111,294,000; financial transactions, $72,500,000. Human Services: operational, $4,088,968,000; capital, $6,038,000; financial transactions, $680,000. Infrastructure: operational, $551,042,000; capital, $1,143,854,000; financial transactions, $73,150,000. Innovation and Advanced Education: operational, $2,705,983,000; capital, $235,572,000; financial transactions, $408,000,000. International and Intergovernmental Relations: operational, $39,410,000; capital, $25,000. Jobs, Skills, Training and Labour: operational, $166,797,000; capital, $660,000.

Justice and Solicitor General: operational, $1,246,014,000; capital, $134,993,000. Municipal Affairs: operational, $423,235,000; capital, $1,455,444,000; financial transactions, $808,443,000.

488 Alberta Hansard April 16, 2014 Service Alberta: operational, $295,483,000; capital, $49,416,000; financial transactions, $6,400,000. Tourism, Parks and Recreation: operational, $170,471,000; capital, $29,215,000. Transportation: operational, $512,720,000; capital, $1,844,728,000; financial transactions, $76,944,000. Treasury Board and Finance: operational, $131,369,000; capital, $2,853,000; financial transactions, $15,248,000; lottery fund transfer, $1,485,550,000. Madam Speaker, that concludes my report. The Acting Speaker: Thank you. Does the Assembly concur in the report? Hon. Members: Concur.

The Acting Speaker: Opposed? So ordered. Introduction of Bills (reversion) The Acting Speaker: The hon. Minister of International and Intergovernmental Relations on behalf of the hon. President of Treasury Board and Minister of Finance. Bill 8 Appropriation Act, 2014 Mr. Dallas: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. On behalf of the hon. President of Treasury Board and Finance minister I request leave to introduce Bill 8, the Appropriation Act, 2014.

This being a money bill, His Honour the Honourable the Lieutenant Governor, having been informed of the contents of this bill, recommends the same to the Assembly. [Motion carried; Bill 8 read a first time] Government Bills and Orders Second Reading Bill 7 Tax Statutes Amendment Act, 2014 The Acting Speaker: The hon. Minister of International and Intergovernmental Relations on behalf of the hon. President of Treasury Board and Minister of Finance. Mr. Dallas: Thank you, Madam Speaker. On behalf of the hon.

President of T reasury Board and Minister of Finance I’m pleased to rise today to move second reading of Bill 7, the Tax Statutes Amendment Act, 2014. This proposed legislation will amend our personal and corporate income tax acts. These are mostly technical and administrative amendments. They parallel federal tax changes and will maintain consistency between federal and Alberta legislation. The amendments will also implement policy approved by this government in November 2013 to introduce a tax regime for qualifying environmental trusts, or QETs, in Alberta.

Madam Speaker, QETs are a means to facilitate the accumulation of funds for future site reclamation. For example, QETs will help ensure that adequate funds are set aside to restore the environment after oil sands extraction. This new tax regime for QETs essentially shifts the tax burden on QET earnings from corporations to the QETs themselves. It is also important to note that the QET regime is revenue neutral. 3:20 Madam Speaker, this government has consulted with the energy industry, and they are supportive of this regime. Saskatchewan, British Columbia, and Ontario have already adopted this special tax regime.

As many of the pipeline and oil sands development corporations have their head offices here, Albe rta is the logical place in which to locate these trusts. If these revenue-neutral tax changes are not made, it is likely that these trusts will be located in British Columbia or Saskatchewan even though it would make the most business sense for them to be located in Alberta. I would also like to tell you about the proposed changes to the Alberta Personal Income Tax Act which also form part of this legislation.

Measures introduced by the federal government will increase the tax on dividends paid out of sma ll-business income unless Alberta adjusts the dividend tax credit rate. The proposed changes to the Alberta Personal Income Tax Act will prevent this unintended tax increase. Other amendments are for housekeeping purposes or to make sure Alberta’s legislation properly references applicable sections of the federal Income Tax Act. In

summary, the Tax Statutes Amendment Act, 2014, will implement the technical and administrative changes necessary to maintain the integrity of our tax system and consistency bet ween the federal and Alberta tax regimes, encourage companies to establish their QETs in Alberta by making our tax regime more competitive with respect to these trusts, and ensure that Alberta’s tax legislation is aligned with federal tax legislation. Thank you. The Acting Speaker: Thank you, hon. minister. The hon. Member for Airdrie. Mr. Anderson: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

I’ll give a few brief points on Bill 7, the Tax Statutes Amendment Act, 2014, which involves, of course, qualifying environmental trusts, or QETs. These are, of course, trust funds established by resource developers for the sole purpose of reclamation. The current tax regime in Alberta places corporations in a tax disadvantaged position by not allowing income generated in the trust to pay for corporate income tax. Resource developers must therefore pay income tax on the returns f rom the QETs with funds from their active businesses.

Bill 7 creates a revenue-neutral tax regime that corrects this tax disadvantage and also, of course, includes several minor housekeeping amendments to accommodate technical and administrative changes th at parallel the federal government changes in this area. It is the Wildrose position that the change in Bill 7 for the QETs as well as the technical and administrative changes to income taxes bring us in line with the federal government tax regime, and that is a good thing.

We also believe that it creates a revenue- neutral regime for the purpose of another tool used to ensure that there are proper financial resources available for resource development reclamation, which, of course, is a large part of responsible environmental stewardship. It places the financial cost of reclamation upon the project owner and operator versus government and taxpayers. We do support this bill and look forward to its quick passage. Thank you, Madam Speaker. The Acting Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Centre. Ms Blakeman: Thanks very much, Madam Speaker.

I always find these bills really interesting. You know, I’m certainly supportive

April 16, 2014 Alberta Hansard 489 of socking money away to help pay for reclamation of pipeline and oil sands sites because, goodness knows, the system we’re using right now doesn’t work very well. Companies go bankrupt and disappear, and the site they had: nobody’s looking after it. They’re gone. They then become orphaned sites. Okay. Well, then we had an orphaned well fund. That doesn’t seem to be covering the costs of it either. You know, my constituents and a number of other people in the province say: “How come the polluter doesn’t pay? How come in Alberta the polluter doesn’t pay?

Why don’t they have to pay to clean up the se reclamation sites?” And the government says: “Yeah, yeah. Well, they kinda do, sort of, mostly, sometimes.” Well, maybe not. It’s just not the deal we all signed up for. You know, just imagine going back to your mother or your grandmother and saying: ye ah, well, I think I’m going to make a mess, but I don’t think I’m going to be responsible for cleaning it up. The reaction of my mother or my grandmothers – yikes. I would have been brought into line very quickly on that one, and I think most people here w ould have. Not so much in the province of Alberta.

Even the brownfield sites that exist in the urban centres, which are the ones that I have to deal with: years and years and years, decades to deal with those abandoned sites or sites that had gas stations on them. A blight on the whole block. It’s just a big, sucking, inactive hole. Sorry; it can’t be inactive and sucking at the same time, but you get my point. It’s a problem for us, and I think the lack of vigour of the government in pursuing a polluter - pays strategy with pipelines, abandoned wells, well sites, gas well sites is a broken deal, as far as I’m concerned, and it’s very frustrating.

Again, I had two budget debates yesterday, so I haven’t quite had time to read my way through this whole bill he re, but I’ve started marking it up as you all expect from me. Well, revenue neutral is what the government says, but as best as I can tell, this is a way for them to be putting some money away and not paying so much income tax now so that they can clean up any sites that they need to clean up later. Okay. But from where I’m reading this, doesn’t that still mean that they’re getting a break on the taxes that they’re paying now because they’re going to end up paying a lesser rate?

You know, somebody’s going to explain that to me, so I’m looking forward to the explanation because, frankly, I just haven’t had time to read the bill yet. Is that the deal, that they’re going to get a special rate? You know, when an individual puts money into, say, an RRSP, well, you don’t pay interest or you pay a much lower interest rate on that money that you can prove you put into a set -aside fund. Or the tax savings fund – no, that’s not quite the right name. Mr. Mason: Tax-free savings account. Ms Blakeman: Tax-free savings account. Thank you very much.

With that one, again, you’re supposed to be paying a lower rate when you take it out, I think. The fact that you saved money – so you’re not paying it out of your paycheque when you put it in there; when you take it out, you pa y a lower rate. So it’s a deal, right? It’s an incentive. It’s an encouragement. Bottom line, Madam Speaker, incentives and disincentives are the only tool the government really has to try and change behaviour. So what I’m seeing here is government trying another way of changing the behaviour of companies developing the oil sands and conventional oil and gas sites to put more money away.

They’ve chosen to do it in this way, with an environmental trust. Trusts always come with kind of special deals attached to them. Am I opposed to the idea of setting money aside for this? No, I’m not. Obviously, I’m not. I want them to do that. If there’s a special deal that goes along with the tax rate, I’m not so keen on it, to be perfectly honest. I mean, honestly, I just have not seen many oil and gas companies clutching their tattered rags about them, shivering on the corner. I really haven’t.

Now, some of them are smaller companies and even family companies, and they’re not making the kinds of profits that others are. I understand that. But I have not seen anyone having to sell their silk tie for food. So they’re not that badly off. If this is the only way we’re going to get it, then, yes, okay, I’ll support that, but I feel like I’m being backed into this one. 3:30 The other part of this, the technical changes.

Maybe this is part of it this year, but we used to have this race to the bottom that a previous, previous, previous Treasurer by the name of Stockwell Day – he wanted to always be able to claim that we had the lowest tax regime, and every time the feds changed their percentage, it had an effect on ours and we were no longer at rock bottom, so we would rush out a bill in which he could stand up and say: this is going to bring us to the bottom again. Decades lat er, from him doing that, I look around and say: really, was that such a great idea?

You know, he’s the guy that brought us the flat tax, and I can say now – and I can certainly say it on behalf of my constituents – that it was not a good idea. I don’t think the flat tax has benefited middle-income earners at all. I think it has imperilled them. It has certainly made them work harder for the same or a lesser amount of money. They are the first generation that is not doing better than their parents, and you’v e got to look around and say: “Well, what?

Are they lazier?” No, I don’t think so. “Are they getting paid less?” Well, that’s an interesting point and a bit of a tangent, Madam Speaker, so I’ll try and save that for the end. [interjection] Yeah, that parti cular tangent. What we have in Alberta is this flat tax. Everybody pays the same. Yes. Except that it has a markedly different effect to pay a flat tax of 10 per cent on a salary of $40,000 or $50,000 than to pay a flat tax of 10 per cent – maybe it’s 11 or 12 now; I don’t know – when you have $500,000 or $600,000 worth of income every year.

Not many people get that kind of money, but there are certainly some senior officials in Alberta that do get that kind of money. You know, we’ve heard about it. Certai nly, in the private sector lots of people make that kind of money, so 10 per cent for them is pocket fluff. Pocket fluff. It does not have nearly the same effect on their standard of living. It has no effect on their standard of living or their pension pla n or anything else, but it has a huge effect on someone that’s making $40,000.

The flat tax was a really bad idea, it continues to be a really bad idea, and I would very much like to see the end of it. If this act is doing anything to sort of prop it up or make it look good or make it look good in comparison to anybody else, then I’m not in favour of it. The other thing to keep in mind with the personal income tax structure that we have here is the fact that we’re spending all of our nonrenewable resource revenue.

When I explain this to people, I say, you know: every day the money that the government spends to provide programs and services is only being collected through taxes and fees and other ways they have of making money, 70 cents of every dollar that they’re spending. “What? How can that be?” Well, that’s because they charge a really low income tax, so they’re only collecting 70 per cent. Well, where is the other 30 per cent coming from? That would be coming from

490 Alberta Hansard April 16, 2014 the nonrenewable resource revenues, sp ecifically conventional oil and gas and, increasingly, from the oil sands sector. So we’re subsidizing our everyday – today’s, tomorrow’s, yesterday’s – provincial programs and services from that nonrenewable resource wealth. Also, if the price of a barrel of oil in the States or wherever changes, that’s the money that really gets affected. What happens to the government? Well, they’re already trying to spend as little as they possibly can on the number of programs because ideologically they’re conservativ es.

They want a smaller government. They want to spend less money. Nobody should be surprised about this. This is what they stand for. So they want to spend the least amount of money possible on all of these programs. Now, they’re in real trouble if the 3 0 per cent that they’re subsidizing themselves with or subsidizing the budget with is worth less, and that’s what happens sometimes. Is this the answer to our problems? No. I don’t think that’s working out so well for Albertans, and I see that every day.

I see the wage gap widening between the very, very wealthy and the working middle-income and low -income people in this province. How can that be? How can rich people be getting even richer, more and more and more money, while for people that are working eve ry day to provide programs and services – teachers and nurses and plumbers and all kinds of small-business people and middle-sized business people – their money is worth less. It’s buying them less stuff today than it bought them 10 years ago.

There’s that issue of what tax rate we’re actually charging, and there’s the issue of subsidizing ourselves by our nonrenewable resource revenue because once we’ve used it once, it’s gone. I think what we should be doing is taking that nonrenewable resource revenue and putting it into endowment funds – if you want to call it something else, fine; call it something else – and letting it build up interest, which we can then spend because that is renewable. That kind of money making money is renewable.

But nonrenewable resource revenue: once you’ve sold that barrel of oil once, it’s gone, and you can’t get it out of the ground again. You got it out once; it’s gone. And I think it’s causing real problems for us. In a lot of ways we’re not as creative as we could be and th e government is not as creative as it could be because we have too much money. I mean, really, if the government gets into trouble: dig a bit more out and chuck it at the problem. They don’t really have to come up with something new and innovative. In the 17 years I’ve been in here, I haven’t seen anything that is new and innovative.

I see a lot of retreads and slight adjustments and tinkerings but very, very little that is genuinely innovative and taking the lead on new things because we don’t have to. We’re not desperate. We can always subsidize it with money from those resources. I think there are two things that need to be addressed. One is to take that nonrenewable resource revenue out of the budget lines and put it aside so that that amount of money builds up for us but also those that come after us. The other part of that is that the oil is not going to last forever. There are pretty good reserves in there. I’m not arguing that.

But, you know, they are finite. What’s much more likely is that people will stop buying our coal and gas and liquid natural gas and bitumen.

That’s much more likely just given the way the world is moving, especially when this government is so obstinate on not getting out from under the black eye it’s given itself and getting out there and really doing some brilliant, innovative, new techniques and supporting some of the wonderful research that is going on in this province to make the oil sands and conventional oil and gas less consuming of water, getting rid of the tailings ponds, all those things that we know we’re supposed to be doing. That’s the reason why I think that money needs to be set aside and that I think we need to in