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April 25, 2006

38th Parliament, 2nd Session

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Hansard Transcripts

vol. A

Hansard Transcripts

vol. B

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2006-Apr-25 (PDF)

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L'ONTARIO

Tuesday 25 April 2006 Mardi 25 avril 2006

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

NIAGARA WEEK

JANE JACOBS

AUTISM TREATMENT

IMMIGRATION POLICY

ROGER'S HOUSE /

LA MAISON DE ROGER

NATIVE LAND DISPUTE

NORTHERN MEDICAL SCHOOL

MATTHEW DINNING

FETAL ALCOHOL

SPECTRUM DISORDER

WEARING OF RIBBONS

LEGISLATIVE PAGES

VISITOR

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

LAKE SIMCOE PROTECTION ACT, 2006 /

LOI DE 2006

SUR LA PROTECTION DU LAC SIMCOE

MOTIONS

HOUSE SITTINGS

DEFERRED VOTES

EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT STATUTE

LAW AMENDMENT ACT, 2006 /

LOI DE 2006 MODIFIANT DES LOIS

EN CE QUI A TRAIT À LA GESTION

DES SITUATIONS D'URGENCE

VISITORS

ORGAN DONATION

NIAGARA RECEPTION

HOLOCAUST MEMORIAL DAY

VISITORS

ORAL QUESTIONS

NATIVE LAND DISPUTE

PROPERTY TAXATION

OHIP OFFICE

GASOLINE PRICES

WORKPLACE SAFETY

GREENBELT

FEDERAL TRANSFER PAYMENTS

NIAGARA REGION

DISABILITY BENEFITS

HOSPITAL FUNDING

NATIVE LAND DISPUTE

PETITIONS

PASSPORT OFFICE

SERVICES FOR THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

IDENTITY THEFT

LANDFILL

COMMUNITY MEDIATION

LANDFILL

AGGREGATE EXTRACTION

NATIVE LAND DISPUTE

LONG-TERM CARE

PUBLIC EDUCATION

NATIVE LAND DISPUTE

PROPERTY TAXATION

LONG-TERM CARE

ORDERS OF THE DAY

TRANSPARENT DRUG SYSTEM

FOR PATIENTS ACT, 2006 /

LOI DE 2006 SUR UN RÉGIME

DE MÉDICAMENTS TRANSPARENT

POUR LES PATIENTS

The House met at 1330.

Prayers.

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

NIAGARA WEEK

Mr. Tim Hudak (Erie-Lincoln): I'm pleased to rise in the House to call members' attention to a very exciting happening this week. Of course it's

Niagara Week, chaired by the very able leadership of Chairman Peter Partington of Niagara region. Many mayors and business leaders are here today. I know they've met with members of the Liberal

caucus, the Conservative caucus and other MPPs, as well as with ministers, to make a few very important points about the peninsula.

I think people often believe the Niagara Peninsula is simply wine country, Niagara Falls and the Shaw Festival.

Mr. Dave Levac (Brant): No.

Mr. Hudak: But as the member for Brantford knows full well, there are many other parts of Niagara in need of government support and attention to

create jobs and help build prosperity in those communities. I commend Chairman Partington and his municipal task force in pushing these issues here at Queen's Park; for example, last year

successfully pushing for an extension of Highway 406 south, to four-lane it, and I know they'll be continuing to advocate for that issue in their meetings with ministers and MPPs alike; similarly,

the importance of moving forward with the mid-peninsula corridor, which would be a major artery for investment in tourism and safe travel in the peninsula. We hope those terms of reference will be

submitted -- already, as we know, well past due.

Also, I want to remind members that tonight the Niagara leaders are hosting a reception in rooms 228 and 230 from 4:30 to 7 p.m. with some great wine and food

and greenhouse products. I encourage all members to attend for a very engaging evening.

JANE JACOBS

Ms. Kathleen O. Wynne (Don Valley West): I rise rather sadly today to acknowledge the death and celebrate the life of thinker, urbanist,

ethicist, activist, writer, mother, wife and grandmother, Jane Jacobs.

Jane was American-born, but she loved this country. She loved Toronto and she gave us so much. She informed our vitality as a city and galvanized political

movements that determined the destiny of this city. She's well known for her opposition to the proposed Spadina Expressway, but was a stalwart as recently as 10 years ago in Toronto's fight against

the creation of the megacity under the previous government.

Jane believed in neighbourhoods. The Death and Life of Great American Cities, written in 1961, is really required reading for people who want to understand how

cities work, what makes them safe and what makes them breathe. She believed that cities had a pivotal role in economies.

Jane was born in 1916 in Scranton, Pennsylvania. She was neither academic nor ideologue. She was never an elected politician, but she influenced the people who

formed this city. David Crombie, John Sewell -- these are the people who have informed how this city has moved forward, and Jane was a reference point for them.

Much will be written about Jane Jacobs in the coming days, but I know that up until the last moment she was thinking about the next book she was going to write.

She was lucid and she was taking

part in the thinking in this city. She would have been 90 on May 4, and I can tell you as a Toronto member that she will be seriously missed as a reference point

and an icon in this city to all of us.

AUTISM TREATMENT

Ms. Lisa MacLeod (Nepean-Carleton): Yesterday, parents from across Ontario descended on Parliament Hill, calling on the federal and provincial

governments to include autism treatment as a publicly funded service. It is disappointing that neither the Premier, who made a promise to the families of autistic children that would have extended

autism treatment beyond age six, nor the Minister of Health Promotion -- who both, ironically, live in the nation's capital -- was there. That's because families, advocates and autistic kids had to

go to the federal government because this McGuinty government has broken yet another of its campaign promises. Unfortunately, this promise is to young, vulnerable children and their parents.

I rise today to ask this Liberal government: Why make a promise to a child with autism and then not make good on it?

IMMIGRATION POLICY

Mr. Rosario Marchese (Trinity-Spadina): I want to talk briefly about the undocumented workers in this province and in this country and say to

those who are watching that there were huge demonstrations here at Queen's Park this past Friday and on Saturday, where they met here at Queen's Park and then went to city hall.

They spoke about the immigration system federally and how incomprehensible it is and how discriminatory it is, inasmuch as we bring here to this country highly

qualified people who can't get work. We bring in doctors and engineers who have to work as restaurant workers or who have to work in the service sector doing God knows what for $7 or $8 an hour.

It's insane. They can't get jobs. Yet we have workers in all the trades in construction working, well paid, and they are about to be deported; many have been deported and continue to be deported

every year.

We have to stop this insanity. We've got to change the immigration system. For the past 13 years nothing has been done, and we now have to lobby the current

Conservative government to change the system to make it better. Some have said to the provincial minister, "You have a provincial nominee program; you're about to have power to do it. Do it

quickly, so that 400 or 500 workers can stay and work, because we need them." So we plead with you, Minister --

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Thank you. Members' statements.

ROGER'S HOUSE /

LA MAISON DE ROGER

Mr. Jean-Marc Lalonde (Glengarry-Prescott-Russell): Last Friday I joined Premier McGuinty and several of my Ottawa caucus colleagues --

Ministers Watson and Meilleur and MPPs Patten and McNeely -- at the official opening of Roger's House in Ottawa. Also at the opening were Mayor Bob Chiarelli, Eugene Melnyk, owner of the Ottawa

Senators, and Max Keeping of CJOH, well known for his work on behalf of sick children in the area.

La Maison de Roger, un centre de soins pédiatriques palliatifs, est ainsi nommée pour rendre hommage à Roger Neilson, ancien entraîneur de la

ligue nationale de hockey, décédé du cancer en 2003.

Roger Neilson coached eight NHL teams in his 25-year career. In April 2002, he became the ninth coach in NHL history to coach 1,000 games, a feat he achieved

while coaching the Ottawa Senators.

La Maison de Roger servira les enfants et leur famille qui vivent avec des maladies sérieuses. Les premières familles vont arriver à la maison le

15 mai prochain.

I encourage all citizens and members of the Ottawa area to stop by the Roger's House public open house this Saturday, April 29. This is a tremendous facility

which will serve many families and children in the years to come. A special thank you to the Ottawa Senators hockey club, the Ottawa Senators Foundation and the Children's Hospital of Eastern

Ontario for their continued support of Roger's House.

NATIVE LAND DISPUTE

Mr. Toby Barrett (Haldimand-Norfolk-Brant): Last night, my staff joined me at the large rally at the Caledonia fairgrounds. Premier, there is

clearly an emergency in the Caledonia area, and people want to know why you continue to hide. As I walked through the crowd, I was asked, "Where is McGuinty? Why won't he come to Caledonia? Why is

he indifferent to our turmoil? If McGuinty knew about this for a year, why did he do nothing to prevent it?"

All sides feel abandoned by this government. As I told many last night, the minister responsible for aboriginal affairs bounced this to Ottawa, saying it was

their responsibility. April 12, he changed his tune, saying the province was on top of the situation. But native spokesperson Clyde Powless counters in the media that Ramsay "keeps sending his bum

boys to us. This is the biggest reserve in Canada."

The Premier said he was seeking a peaceful solution, but the site was raided less than 18 hours later. McGuinty and his government were AWOL last night, letting

down thousands of people who want to hear something. Double speaking, finger-pointing and Premier McGuinty's strategy of hiding under his desk won't fly in our area. People from all sides are

saying, "Step up to the plate, tell us what's going on, and show some leadership."

NORTHERN MEDICAL SCHOOL

Mr. Bill Mauro (Thunder Bay-Atikokan): Recently, our government announced new major funding for our northern medical school. This funding

matched the money that was raised by the successful Northern Ontario School of Medicine bursary fund. Originally marked at $5 million and later matched again with an additional $1.7 million, this

government funding totals $6.7 million.

Together with the bursary fund, this $13.4 million is an excellent investment in our community and a solid way to train and retain doctors in northwestern

Ontario. The school can focus on the unique and specific needs of rural and northern Ontario.

This important funding has been made possible through the Northern Ontario Heritage Fund Corp. and the Ontario trust for student support. It will help students

from northern, rural and remote communities defray the costs associated with attending medical school and help them avoid significant debt at the end of their medical undergraduate training.

Keeping our youth in northern Ontario is important. We know that if young people in the north study in the north, there's a good chance they'll become doctors in

the north. I'd like to commend the university administrators, volunteers and donors who worked so hard to build this bursary fund. Elizabeth Dougall, chair of the fundraising committee for the NOSM

board of directors, and the campaign co-chair in Thunder Bay, Greg Pilot, were instrumental in helping the private sector raise these funds. Without their strong sense of community activism, none

of this would have been possible. We must also acknowledge that this bursary fund would not have been possible without the generosity of our northern citizens.

I am proud and encouraged by the investment in the north and believe it will result in the intellectual and professional development of some of our brightest

young people.

MATTHEW DINNING

Mrs. Carol Mitchell (Huron-Bruce): It is with great sadness that I rise today to honour the life of Corporal Matthew Dinning. The town of

Wingham, where Matthew grew up, is mourning this loss, but residents are extremely proud of the work that he did and will honour his memory with pride. He was a courageous person who put others'

well-being first. We will not forget his sacrifice.

Public service is a tradition in the Dinning family. His father is a member of the Ontario Provincial Police and he, too, served outside of Canada, in Kosovo, as

part of our effort to bring democracy to that country. This small community will gather together on the weekend to remember our fallen hero. Matthew Dinning will be fondly remembered.

I would also like to take this time to remember all of our fallen soldiers and to thank our soldiers who risk their lives every day to ensure that others can

live a better life.

FETAL ALCOHOL

SPECTRUM DISORDER

Mr. Ernie Parsons (Prince Edward-Hastings): I would like to tell you about a special young man named Tom Wilkinson. Tom was born with fetal

alcohol spectrum disorder, a disorder caused by his birth mother consuming alcohol during pregnancy. Tom and his dog Shadow are walking across Ontario in order to increase awareness of FASD. He

left Windsor on April 3 and plans to arrive in Ottawa on May 10. He will be stopping in 23 cities to speak with people about FASD supports in their area.

Fetal alcohol spectrum disorder is an umbrella term for all alcohol-related disorders and is 100% preventable. It is caused only by drinking alcohol during

pregnancy and is the leading cause of mental retardation in Canada. It knows no socio-cultural boundaries and affects people regardless of income or education. More babies are born with FASD than

with spina bifida and Down's syndrome combined.

Tom was diagnosed with FASD at the age of 13 and has experienced difficulties with physical, social, emotional and intellectual development. Tom may have a

disability, but he's not disabled. He is determined to increase the awareness of fetal alcohol spectrum disorder and to raise funds for the Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Treatment and Education Centre,

FASTEC, in Belleville. Tom will be in Port Hope tonight, Brighton on Wednesday and Belleville on Thursday.

Folks, every contribution to Tom's walk counts. Just $1 spent on printing an information brochure can literally save a life when a woman reads it and realizes

the effect on her unborn child. I urge my colleagues and the people of Ontario to support Tom in this very worthy cause.

WEARING OF RIBBONS

Hon. Mike Colle (Minister of Citizenship and Immigration): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker: Today, as we observe Yom Hashoah, Holocaust

Memorial Day, and we honour the memory of the victims and survivors, we have a moral obligation to recognize tragedies occurring in the world around us, especially in the Darfur region of Sudan. To

bring attention to this, I am seeking unanimous consent for each member to wear a green ribbon provided by the national Darfur committee of the Canadian Jewish Congress as a symbol of our

undertaking that the human catastrophe unfolding in Darfur must be brought to an end.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Mr. Colle has asked for unanimous consent. Agreed? Agreed.

LEGISLATIVE PAGES

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): I beg the indulgence of the House to allow the pages to assemble for their introduction.

From Chatham-Kent-Essex, we have Billy Barnier; from Toronto-Danforth, Kelsey Bishop; from Renfrew-Nipissing-Pembroke, Morgan Brodofske; from

Ottawa-Orléans, Caroline Chamberland; from Elgin-Middlesex-London, Patrick Connell; from Trinity-Spadina, Gemma Johnson; from Haliburton-Victoria-Brock, Kate Kourtsidis; from Lanark-Carleton,

Elliott Leeflang; from Perth-Middlesex, Alicia Lenny; from Waterloo-Wellington, Connor Maitland; from Prince Edward-Hastings, Conor McGarvey; from Mississauga South, Kristy Mlakar; from Hamilton

West, Haakim Nainar; from Don Valley West, Zachery Oman; from London West, Julian Paparella; from Brant, Alyna Poremba; from Scarborough-Rouge River, Monika Rawat; from Burlington, Gennaro Santoro;

from Eglinton-Lawrence, Vanessa Sidwell; from Oak Ridges, Philippe Stanier; from Parry Sound-Muskoka, Megan Suttie; and from Scarborough Southwest, Isaac Watters.

Join me in welcoming all our new pages.

Applause.

VISITOR

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): I would like to draw members' attention to a special guest in the Speaker's gallery, the deputy editor of

Hansard in Ghana, Mr. Anthony Appiah-Yeboah. He is on a two-week attachment with the Office of the Assembly in the Hansard Reporting and

Interpretation Services branch. Join me in welcoming our

guest.

Applause.

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

LAKE SIMCOE PROTECTION ACT, 2006 /

LOI DE 2006

SUR LA PROTECTION DU LAC SIMCOE

Mr. Dunlop moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 106,

An Act to establish a natural heritage system and watershed protection area for Lake Simcoe and the Nottawasaga River / Projet de loi 106, Loi

établissant une zone de protection du bassin hydrographique et du patrimoine naturel pour le lac Simcoe et la rivière Nottawasaga.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

The member may wish to make a brief statement.

Mr. Garfield Dunlop (Simcoe North): I'll be entitling this bill the Lake Simcoe Protection Act, 2006. The bill allows the Lieutenant Governor in

Council, by regulation, to designate the Lake Simcoe and Nottawasaga River natural heritage system and watershed protection area that includes Lake Simcoe, the county of Simcoe and the other areas

of land prescribed by regulation. The Lieutenant Governor in Council may also establish the Lake Simcoe and Nottawasaga River natural heritage system and watershed protection plan for all or part

of the area.

MOTIONS

HOUSE SITTINGS

Hon. James J. Bradley (Minister of Tourism, minister responsible for seniors, Government House Leader): I move that, pursuant to standing order

9(c)(i), the House shall meet from 6:45 p.m. to 9:30 p.m. on Tuesday, April 25, 2006, for the purpose of considering government business.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Mr. Bradley has moved government notice of motion number 113. Is it the pleasure of the House that the

motion carry?

All in favour will say "aye."

All opposed will say "nay."

In my opinion, the ayes have it.

Call in the members. This will be a five-minute bell.

The division bells rang from 1354 to 1359.

The Speaker: Mr. Bradley has moved government notice of motion number 113. All those in favour will rise one at a time and be recognized by

the Clerk.

Ayes

Arthurs, Wayne

Balkissoon, Bas

Barrett, Toby

Bentley, Christopher

Berardinetti, Lorenzo

Bountrogianni, Marie

Bradley, James J.

Broten, Laurel C.

Bryant, Michael

Chudleigh, Ted

Colle, Mike

Cordiano, Joseph

Craitor, Kim

Crozier, Bruce

Delaney, Bob

Dhillon, Vic

Di Cocco, Caroline

Dombrowsky, Leona

Duguid, Brad

Duncan, Dwight

Dunlop, Garfield

Elliott, Christine

Flynn, Kevin Daniel

Fonseca, Peter

Gerretsen, John

Gravelle, Michael

Hardeman, Ernie

Hoy, Pat

Hudak, Tim

Jeffrey, Linda

Klees, Frank

Kwinter, Monte

Lalonde, Jean-Marc

Levac, Dave

MacLeod, Lisa

Marsales, Judy

Matthews, Deborah

Mauro, Bill

McMeekin, Ted

Meilleur, Madeleine

Miller, Norm

Mitchell, Carol

O'Toole, John

Ouellette, Jerry J.

Parsons, Ernie

Patten, Richard

Peters, Steve

Peterson, Tim

Phillips, Gerry

Pupatello, Sandra

Qaadri, Shafiq

Racco, Mario G.

Ramal, Khalil

Ramsay, David

Rinaldi, Lou

Runciman, Robert W.

Ruprecht, Tony

Sandals, Liz

Scott, Laurie

Sergio, Mario

Smith, Monique

Smitherman, George

Tascona, Joseph N.

Tory, John

Van Bommel, Maria

Watson, Jim

Witmer, Elizabeth

Wong, Tony C.

Wynne, Kathleen O.

Yakabuski, John

Zimmer, David

The Speaker: All those opposed will please rise one at a time and be recognized by the Clerk.

Nays

Bisson, Gilles

Horwath, Andrea

Kormos, Peter

Marchese, Rosario

Martel, Shelley

Murdoch, Bill

Prue, Michael

Tabuns, Peter

The Clerk of the Assembly (Mr. Claude L. DesRosiers): The ayes are 71; the nays are 8.

The Speaker: I declare the motion carried.

DEFERRED VOTES

EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT STATUTE

LAW AMENDMENT ACT, 2006 /

LOI DE 2006 MODIFIANT DES LOIS

EN CE QUI A TRAIT À LA GESTION

DES SITUATIONS D'URGENCE

Deferred vote on the motion for second reading of Bill 56,

An Act to amend the Emergency Management Act, the Employment Standards Act, 2000 and the Workplace

Safety and Insurance Act, 1997 / Projet de loi 56, Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la gestion des situations d'urgence, la Loi de 2000 sur les normes d'emploi et la Loi de 1997 sur la

sécurité professionnelle et l'assurance contre les accidents du travail.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Call in the members. This will be a five-minute bell.

The division bells rang from 1402 to 1407.

The Speaker: Mr. Kwinter has moved second reading of Bill 56,

An Act to amend the Emergency Management Act, the Employment Standards Act, 2000

and the Workplace Safety and Insurance Act, 1997.

All those in favour will please rise one at a time and be recognized by the Clerk.

Ayes

Arthurs, Wayne

Balkissoon, Bas

Bentley, Christopher

Berardinetti, Lorenzo

Bountrogianni, Marie

Bradley, James J.

Broten, Laurel C.

Bryant, Michael

Colle, Mike

Cordiano, Joseph

Craitor, Kim

Crozier, Bruce

Delaney, Bob

Dhillon, Vic

Di Cocco, Caroline

Dombrowsky, Leona

Duguid, Brad

Duncan, Dwight

Flynn, Kevin Daniel

Fonseca, Peter

Gerretsen, John

Gravelle, Michael

Hoy, Pat

Jeffrey, Linda

Kular, Kuldip

Kwinter, Monte

Lalonde, Jean-Marc

Leal, Jeff

Levac, Dave

Marsales, Judy

Matthews, Deborah

Mauro, Bill

McGuinty, Dalton

McMeekin, Ted

Meilleur, Madeleine

Mitchell, Carol

Parsons, Ernie

Patten, Richard

Peters, Steve

Peterson, Tim

Phillips, Gerry

Pupatello, Sandra

Qaadri, Shafiq

Racco, Mario G.

Ramal, Khalil

Ramsay, David

Rinaldi, Lou

Ruprecht, Tony

Sandals, Liz

Sergio, Mario

Smith, Monique

Smitherman, George

Sorbara, Gregory S.

Takhar, Harinder S.

Van Bommel, Maria

Watson, Jim

Wong, Tony C.

Wynne, Kathleen O.

Zimmer, David

The Speaker: All those opposed will please rise one at a time and be recognized by the Clerk.

Nays

Arnott, Ted

Barrett, Toby

Bisson, Gilles

Chudleigh, Ted

Dunlop, Garfield

Elliott, Christine

Hampton, Howard

Hardeman, Ernie

Horwath, Andrea

Hudak, Tim

Klees, Frank

Kormos, Peter

MacLeod, Lisa

Marchese, Rosario

Martel, Shelley

Miller, Norm

Munro, Julia

Murdoch, Bill

O'Toole, John

Ouellette, Jerry J.

Prue, Michael

Runciman, Robert W.

Scott, Laurie

Tabuns, Peter

Tascona, Joseph N.

Tory, John

Witmer, Elizabeth

Yakabuski, John

The Clerk of the Assembly (Mr. Claude L. DesRosiers): The ayes are 59; the nays are 28.

The Speaker: I declare the motion carried.

Shall the bill be ordered for third reading?

Hon. Monte Kwinter (Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services): I'd ask that the bill be referred to the standing committee on

justice policy.

The Speaker: Agreed? Agreed.

VISITORS

Hon. Steve Peters (Minister of Labour): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker: I'd like to take this opportunity to welcome the father and

grandparents of page Julian Paparella. His father, Nick Paparella, is sitting up above, and Gerhard and Christ Isle, from the riding of London West.

Hon. James J. Bradley (Minister of Tourism, minister responsible for seniors, Government House Leader): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker: I

would like to introduce the delegation from the regional municipality of Niagara who are here today, led by Peter Partington, the chair. They're in the galleries on both sides. I'd like to ask

members to join in welcoming them to Queen's Park.

ORGAN DONATION

Hon. Christopher Bentley (Minister of Training, Colleges and Universities): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker: Is it a point of order if I draw

the members' attention to the fact that there are two pamphlets relating to organ donations in each of the lobbies, and remind them that there is a reception for the gift of life association

tomorrow in room 228 at 4:30 to 6? Is that a point of order, Speaker?

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): It is not a point of order, but thank you.

NIAGARA RECEPTION

Hon. James J. Bradley (Minister of Tourism, minister responsible for seniors, Government House Leader): Mr. Speaker, I actually have two very

quick points of order.

I want to remind members of the Legislature of the regional municipality of Niagara and Niagara reception, which is in rooms 228 and 230 from 4:30 to 7 today,

with the finest wines and the best culinary opportunities there are.

HOLOCAUST MEMORIAL DAY

Hon. James J. Bradley (Minister of Tourism, minister responsible for seniors, Government House Leader): Mr. Speaker, the second point is that

I believe we have unanimous consent for all parties to speak for up to five minutes to recognize Holocaust Memorial Day.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Agreed? Agreed.

Hon. Mike Colle (Minister of Citizenship and Immigration): "Some 10,000 Jews from all over the world finished making their way from Auschwitz

to Birkenau in this year's March of the Living. Ceremonies at Birkenau, led by Nobel laureate Shimon Peres....

"At the end of the march, participants sang the Hatikva, Israel's national anthem.

"Before the march's start, hundreds of youths carrying Israeli flags spent the morning wandering among the wooden barracks and barbed wire of the sprawling

Birkenau camp, and visited the museum housed at the smaller Auschwitz camp nearby.

"Among those taking part was Diana Katz, a 23-year-old history teacher from Jerusalem, whose grandmother, Lubia Tanenbaum, survived the camp after arriving as

a 14-year-old from Hungary.

"`I am here with my son to show the evil people in the world that we are here, that we are alive, that we want to live and we want future generations to live,'

Katz said as she pushed the baby carriage holding her three-month-old son, Joseph. `We will not forget, and we have won.'"

I rise today to recognize Yom Hashoah V'Hagvurah -- Holocaust Memorial Day -- a day designated for Holocaust remembrance in communities around the world. This

is the eighth year the Ontario Legislature has observed Holocaust Memorial Day, and I'm proud to say that Ontario was the first jurisdiction in the world, outside of the state of Israel, to

officially recognize it.

Today is of vital importance to the people of Ontario. On this day, we bear witness to the six million innocent men, women and children of Jewish faith who

were systematically slaughtered during the Holocaust, and the hundreds of thousands of survivors whose lives have been forever affected by this most repugnant

chapter in the history of man.

With the passage of each year, the number of Holocaust survivors grows smaller. With their diminishing presence, it might be all too easy to forget the horrors

they faced. We must never forget the atrocities perpetrated by the Nazi "beast." By keeping the memory of the innocent victims alive, we strengthen the hope that no community will ever again have

to suffer such cruelty and devastation. On this day, and each day throughout the year, we must publicly proclaim, "Never again," to the killing of Jews or any other people regardless of race,

ethnicity, creed, nationality or religion.

Remembering is a solemn duty and a safeguard for the future. Silence and indifference are unacceptable; vigilance and education are essential. The values of

freedom, mutual respect, justice and tolerance must be appreciated, protected and embraced. In Ontario we treasure diversity and our dynamic multiculturalism. Yet our province is not immune from

anti-Semitic activity, and the world continues to struggle with ongoing tragedies, especially in the Darfur region of Sudan.

Last year, the B'nai Brith League of Human Rights warned of the growing number of anti-Semitic incidents in our province. These incidents were met with clear

condemnation from all sectors of society. As the Premier stated, "There is no room for hatred in Ontario -- in our school hallways, our homes or our hearts." In Ontario, we are a proud collection

of many ancestries, religions, histories, languages and cultures. We must always stand up for one another. We must continue to speak out and take action against tyranny, intolerance and oppression

in our own communities and throughout the world.

Last evening, I was honoured, with Minister Monte Kwinter, to attend the Holocaust Community Commemoration at Earl Bales Park in North York, an event drawing

2,500 people, making it one of the largest Holocaust memorial gatherings outside of Israel. We were privileged to hear the story of Sara Ginaite-Rubinson, who, at 17 years of age, joined a

resistance movement against the Nazi regime in the ghetto of Kaunas, a Lithuanian city then a part of the Soviet Union. "I completely rejected the way the Nazis had arranged my death," said Ms.

Ginaite-Rubinson. "If my fate was to die, I would die on my own terms." Ms. Ginaite-Rubinson lost all but four family members; her husband, her sister and her husband, and a cousin survived.

Her resistance is heroic, and her loss, like many others, has been immeasurable. Yet out of her devastating experience, she challenges all of us to ensure that

the horror of the Holocaust is never forgotten and that the tragic stories of innocent Jews continue to be heard.

Today we stand shoulder to shoulder with our Jewish brothers and sisters at home and abroad and totally reject those who would deny the Holocaust and promote

hate and anti-Semitism. Today, as we recognize Yom Hashoah V'Hagvurah, let us resolve to never let the innocent be forgotten.

Mr. Ted Chudleigh (Halton): I rise today to recognize April 25 as Yom Hashoah, Holocaust Memorial Day, in Ontario. As the member who sponsored

the private member's bill establishing this day in Ontario, it is always my honour to be associated with Holocaust Memorial Day and the goal of rooting out hatred and promoting human rights, civic

and moral responsibility, and individual and democratic freedoms.

We initiated this memorial day as an opportunity to pay tribute to those innocents who were the victims of genocide. We have also used commemorations to

promote education, especially regarding the role played by ordinary citizens who, through their inaction, allow genocides to occur.

That Ontario commemorates this day -- and we are the first jurisdiction outside of Israel to officially recognize this day -- makes several important points.

First, the victims of the Jewish Holocaust of the late 1930s and early 1940s are remembered. Secondly, we remember the victims of other genocides around the world. Thirdly, it is an opportunity to

tie the past and the present to the future by expressing our deepest fears and concerns about ongoing events in Darfur and by condemning Iranian threats of genocide against Israel.

Images conjure strong emotions. Images in the minds of Ontarians on Holocaust Memorial Day are likely those of the well-documented systematic destruction of

European Jews associated with the Second World War. However, the minds of some Ontarians will be filled with other horrific images from other places and other times.

This is as it should be. We need to use our knowledge of genocide to root out its causes before it can occur. By promoting our values as citizens in Ontario,

we can help other people understand how individual citizens can be culpable of genocide if they refuse to speak out as it takes hold. It is important to remember that genocide is only possible when

large numbers of people abrogate their responsibilities as citizens and do nothing to stop hatred and intolerance.

It is the European Holocaust which I believe was the most premeditated systematic genocide of modern times. Other events have been no less terrible to the

victims; however, the sheer magnitude of the European Holocaust boggles the mind.

In 1933, the Nazis systemically stripped the rights and freedoms of their own citizens simply because they were Jewish. Eventually, Jews could not hold

government jobs. They were barred from certain schools, they could not attend movies, they could not go to some resorts, and they were even restricted from walking in some areas of the city.

It wasn't until Kristallnacht, the Night of Broken Glass, November 9, 1938, that this stripping away of human rights flared into an undeclared war against the

Jews. All the while, most of their fellow citizens failed to speak out, cowed by the fear and intimidation sown by the Nazi fascists, whose power gained currency each time their actions went

unopposed. The death of a just society is sowed one injustice at a time.

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the United Nations convention on prevention and punishment of genocide recognized the specific political, social,

economic and cultural rights of all citizens. More and more, people around the world understand that the right to life exists above national sovereignty or religious belief. The lack of true

democratic freedom paved the way for these atrocities to occur. This theme runs through all examples of state-sponsored genocide, including Stalin's Russia, Pol Pot's Cambodia and in Rwanda: When

individuals do not have a direct stake in their own government, they often fail in their civic and moral obligations as well.

Since the Holocaust Memorial Day Act passed, I have had some truly remarkable experiences and met some exceptional people. I have received astounding letters

describing major changes that people have made in their lives due to Holocaust Memorial Day. I have joined students in commemoration of these events, and with them I have learned some lessons about

the Holocaust from survivors.

I ask all members of the Legislature to remember that shedding light on these darkest of human actions is a reflection of our willingness to create a society

that will defend all of its parts. It is a lesson we must take care to never forget.

Mr. Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): Between 1939 and 1945, over six million Jewish men, women and children, in addition to millions of

Polish, Russian and other nationals in eastern Europe, were systematically put to death because of their race, their religion, their nationality, their sexuality or, in some cases, because of their

political beliefs. During those 12 years from 1933 to 1945, entire communities and villages, indeed entire generations of families, were exterminated in the most brutal and calculated fashion. The

suffering cannot be described, and the loss to humanity and the damage to human dignity cannot be measured.

Today we need to remember that those acts were carried out in a supposedly civilized society. Indeed the western world learned a terrible lesson from those

horrific events: that in a very civilized society, these kinds of acts can be and were perpetrated. From that, we learned that the term "civilization" and what it means can be very tenuous.

Today we need to remember that the early warning signs of the persecution of Jews existed in 1933, 1934, 1935, 1936, 1937 and 1938, but much of the world did

nothing to oppose the persecutions. And while tens of thousands of Jewish families tried to leave Nazi Germany, many countries closed their doors. We need to remember that Canada closed its doors

-- we closed our doors -- to thousands of Jewish families who were trying to leave Germany.

We must always be on guard so that this cannot happen again. We must always speak out against anti-Semitism, hate and racism of any kind. The fact is, our

world still remains a violent and oppressive place for too many peoples. Countries continue to put their own citizens to death and continue to use military violence against their own citizens.

People still live in incredible poverty, without access to food and shelter, as a result of systemic genocide policies. We need to recognize that today, in our own times, we have allowed genocide

to happen in Rwanda and Sudan, even as the warning signs were being sounded again.

Today, we remember those men and women who suffered and died during the worst period of modern history, and today we must remember our responsibilities to each

other. Today is about recommitting ourselves to the task of making the world a better place for all of us, a safer place for all of us, no matter our race, no matter our religion, our gender, our

age, our sexuality or our political beliefs. We must remember and we must recommit ourselves, because too often those terrible lessons have been repeated again and again.

The Speaker: I would ask all members and guests to rise with me and observe a moment of silence in commemoration of Yom Hashoah, Holocaust

Memorial Day.

The House observed a moment's silence.

VISITORS

Mr. David Zimmer (Willowdale): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker: May I take this moment to introduce Mr. Bernie Farber, the chief executive

officer of the Canadian Jewish Congress; Mr. Norman Epstein, the CEO of Canadians Against Slavery and Torture in Sudan; and Mr. Yahira Mohammed of the Darfur Association of Canada.

ORAL QUESTIONS

NATIVE LAND DISPUTE

Mr. John Tory (Leader of the Opposition): My question is to the Premier. We all watched with concern last night as the situation in Caledonia

reflected, I think in an all-too-visible way, some of the anger and frustration that exists among a number of different groups in and around that community.

I told the House yesterday, and I tell the Premier, that my own visit there indicated to me that there's a very real desire on the part of the people who live

and work there to try to ensure that nothing comes along that will take away from the very peaceful coexistence that has existed for many years between the different peoples in that community. But

of course we all know that that will require leadership. I wonder if the Premier might give us, first of all, a general update on the situation in Caledonia and, secondly, an update on his own

personal involvement in trying to bring this matter to, as he put it last week, a peaceful resolution.

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Research and Innovation): I'm pleased to receive the question and to report to the House that I had

another briefing at noon today to give us some better sense of what in fact occurred last night. What occurred last night was, indeed, unfortunate. While I'm sure all members of the House can

understand the impatience and frustration on the part of both sides, I think, in fairness, it's incumbent upon all of us to ensure that none of the parties on either side loses sight of the fact

that if we are going to resolve this peacefully, both sides have to continue to bring to the table goodwill and patience -- two of the most precious commodities in addressing this issue.

So my advice, certainly to the members of the community and to those who are protesting on either side, is that it is going to be important for us to be calm,

to be cool, to remain collected, to respect the law and to remain patient.

I'll report more with respect to your supplementaries.

Mr. Tory: Premier, yesterday I questioned the minister on this matter and I indicated that following a personal visit I had made there, as I

mentioned -- and it wasn't a matter of what I thought -- I heard from people that more and better information coming to the people about what's going on was going to be helpful if we're going to

keep tensions down and help get things resolved, but most importantly perhaps, to keep tensions down while things are getting resolved.

The minister responded because I had mentioned that we had been told of the efforts of the OPP going door to door, but of course the degree to which they can

convey information about matters other than policing and security is very limited. Their role in going door to door to inform people has to be limited.

I say to the Premier, I believe that you and your minister have an obligation to show some personal leadership on this issue. I want to know specifically what

you are prepared to do, as elected representatives and people in responsible, elected positions in the government, to inform people and have them get information directly from people in their

government, on the ground. What steps are you prepared to take to show some leadership on this?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: I can understand the Leader of the Opposition's desire for the government to rush into this, but that's not something we're

prepared to do. We are working with all the parties involved -- representatives of the First Nations community, the federal government and the community of Caledonia -- in order to ensure that

discussions continue. They started on one day of the weekend at 4 in the afternoon and continued until 4 in the morning. The First Nations representative asked for some time to retire to consider

the results of that discussion. Those discussions, the minister tells me, will resume tomorrow, and we look forward to getting back to the table. I don't think there is a better venue for us to

resolve this than at the table itself, where the parties are all being represented.

Again, it's going to take some time. I wish we could say that this is going to be resolved in the immediate future, but I have no reason to believe that's

going to be the case. So I think it's very important that we all remain patient and supportive of the process we have put in place.

Mr. Tory: I appreciate the fact that the discussions are taking some time and that they're going on and so forth, but to some extent the

Premier missed the point of the question. For example, by analogy, the chiefs of the confederacy, when they take a break from the table, take some of that time to go back to their community and

inform the people they represent of what is going on. At the moment, there is nobody from your government who is doing the same thing with respect to other residents of the community, including

people in the native community, frankly, who may wish to hear about what the government's perspective is on what's going on. It's information that's going to help to keep the tensions down, to keep

people properly informed. There's no one there doing that.

Another thing I was told on my visit is that there were some real tensions in the schools yesterday, when they reopened, between students from the First

Nations and other students. There apparently were physical and verbal confrontations in the hallways. May I ask what specific steps have been taken by your government and by you to help the school

board, the schools and the teachers to make sure these kinds of tensions in the schools are kept down? What leadership is your government showing on this?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: I think we should be mindful of the advice offered by the Ontario Provincial Police in a release it just put out. It reads

as follows: "These are extraordinary times. This situation is complex and it requires the kind of understanding and co-operation that we have always shared as neighbours here in Caledonia and the

Six Nations and it will require negotiation to achieve a lasting, peaceful resolution. I'm appealing to everyone, all the people of Caledonia and the Six Nations, to be patient while a lasting

resolution is sought."

I'm not sure I could have put it any better myself. I understand there are some frustrations in the schools, in homes and in the business community on the

Caledonia side, and on the First Nations side there are some long-standing frustrations there as well. But I think the best advice we can offer everyone is to remain cool, calm and patient as we

pursue what I think is the best possible venue to achieve a long-term resolution, and that is through this process of discussion.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): New question?

Mr. Tory: I really don't disagree with a word that has been said by the Premier on this, but I think all I have --

Mr. Greg Sorbara (Vaughan-King-Aurora): Then get onto another topic.

Mr. Tory: I don't know why members opposite have to heckle on a matter like this. I'm simply trying to ask questions, and I'm trying to ask

them in a respectful and professional manner to try and elicit some information.

I don't disagree with what you said about the need for patience, but I am also trying to point out that I have been there. I listened to people, and what they

said was they don't know, they're not being adequately informed with respect to what is going on, what is taking place. I found the briefing offered by the government very helpful. There's no

reason why some of that information -- for example, historical, legal and other information -- couldn't be shared with the people who live there and who are affected by this.

I'm asking you now, what specifically are you prepared to do to make sure somebody from the government takes some leadership, not abandoning patience, not

abandoning negotiations, but merely to inform the people who live in those communities of what's going on on a more fulsome basis so they can understand?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: To the minister responsible for aboriginal affairs.

Hon. David Ramsay (Minister of Natural Resources, minister responsible for aboriginal affairs): The question the leader makes today in the

House was also made to us in our briefing to the community, the mayor and the council yesterday afternoon. We have come back with that question and are planning to set up some mechanisms so that

people can find out what's going on because, as the member rightly says, there are gaps of time when there's consultation going on in the negotiations. We are looking at easily accessible 1-800

numbers where information will be posted, websites, and using the community radio stations to give information immediately to people, as well as the door-to-door process that the OPP initiated,

which has worked very well.

I understand where the member's coming from. We are working on developing mechanisms very quickly so that information can get directly to people.

Mr. Tory: I want to thank the minister for answering exactly what I asked the Premier three times without success, and I appreciate it.

I would suggest to the minister and ask him if he would consider -- in some appropriate way where it can be done peacefully and in an informative way and in

the proper kind of environment -- going there, or having someone else go there, whether it's the Premier or someone else, and sit with the residents and listen to them but, more importantly, inform

them.

I do think the measures you mentioned, the 1-800 numbers and other things you're thinking about, are a step in the right direction. In that regard, there was

mention made in the briefing yesterday of the fact there are some very specific groups affected by this, such as the developer, the tradespeople who are working on the houses, some of the

businesses and so on. Could you outline for us what specific measures you have taken to sit down with those groups and work with them to try to understand the difficulties this is causing them and

to better inform them as to what's going on? What specific things have been done there?

Hon. Mr. Ramsay: The Ministry of Finance has given us the name of a candidate that we have now employed to work with the developer and the

contractors who have suffered losses with this incident. They are in discussion today to talk about that situation, to explore ways that maybe the Ontario government can help them through this,

because we know and understand that they have put their life savings into this investment, that this subdivision investment is very important to the community and to the workers in the community,

too, who are losing employment right now. So all that is being explored at this time as we go on with the large table negotiations.

Mr. Tory: Finally, again to the Premier, I think the thing that as much as anything else is contributing to the tension and the dislocation,

frankly, for people who live there is the blockage of the roads. I was in a gas station in Caledonia where, for example, the owner is having trouble getting supply for his gas station because of

the configuration of the roads there. Other people are finding it difficult to commute to and from work and so on. I think there's a different kind of symbolic and legal aspect to the road closure

which makes it more of a flashpoint in the community and contributes to the tension.

Can you tell us specifically what you and your government are trying to do to prioritize the reopening of the roads, especially the bypass, perhaps even

starting on an intermittent basis, to get the community working properly again and, I believe, to reduce the tensions? What leadership can we expect from you specifically on the question of the

bypass and the roads, which I really think are making more of a contribution to tension in the community than anything else?

Hon. Mr. Ramsay: This is being handled by the government on two levels. This weekend, returning the community to normalcy was one of the first

incremental steps that the table of discussion engaged in, knowing that that is one of the first things that has to be repaired and proceeded with. But also, the OPP has been handling this because

it's a security and safety issue for the community, and they have been having their own ongoing discussions with the First Nations on how to return the community to normalcy.

The member is right to say that this does become a flashpoint, because the everyday lives of the people of Caledonia have been disrupted. We are very

sympathetic to that. We know we've got to return both communities to a sense of normalcy as we give ourselves some time to work out a long-term arrangement here.

The Speaker: New question. The leader of the third party.

Mr. Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): My question is for the Premier. Premier, last night we witnessed an ugly spectacle unfold at the

standoff in Caledonia. The media describe an angry mob marching towards and hurling racial taunts at the Six Nation protesters. What's more remarkable about this is that your government has known

about the potential for a standoff at Caledonia for over a year. Six Nation members have held numerous information pickets in many locations over that time raising the issue. My question is this:

Why did it come to angry mobs and racial taunts before your government really started to take action?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: First of all, I'm not prepared to accept that those who may have behaved in a fashion described by the leader of the NDP

are representative of the goodwill still to be found in the community of Caledonia. I'm not prepared to accept that. I think the leader of the NDP knows -- certainly a representative of his party

was given the opportunity to get a full briefing on this -- that our government has been involved in the larger land claim issues for at least a couple of years now. We've been involved actively in

discussions since this occurred, since this protest first became an actual occupation, and we will continue to have discussions on an ongoing basis with those involved.

I think it's important to keep in mind as well that the developer involved here actually obtained the consent of the elected leadership to the First Nations

community affected by this and, in reliance on that, proceeded with his development. So I think that many of us thought that this had been addressed, and obviously that did not prove to be the

case. Now we find ourselves where we find ourselves, and we are doing the best we can, and I say that it's not only our government but all the parties involved, to bring this to a peaceful

resolution.

Mr. Hampton: Premier, I think what people have a hard time understanding is this: The warning signs were all there. The warning signs were

getting louder and louder, yet your government decided to appoint a mediator only 11 days ago. And then, just after the appointment of a mediator, the OPP resort to use of force. That's one of the

other questions that people have. Just after the OPP resorted to use of force, the public was told it was because of confidential new information that the OPP had. But yesterday, your Minister of

Community Safety said that they resorted to use of force because of the court order as a result of the private legal action. What we do know is that the use of force by the OPP escalated the

tension and escalated the conflict.

So I'm asking you, because people are having a hard time understanding this: You've given two reasons. Which one is the real reason for the use of force by the

OPP in what has all the possibilities of becoming a very serious conflict?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: When I met with Commissioner Gwen Boniface earlier today, during the course of the briefing, I took the opportunity to

express to her my deepest appreciation for the patience and determination to resolve this peacefully. I think if the leader of the NDP is looking for any kind of philosophy that informs the OPP, it

reveals itself in this press release put out earlier today, which expresses a strong determination to resolve this in a peaceful way. The police have a special obligation in our society to act when

they feel that public safety demands it. They have acted because they felt that that was an issue. That's as far as I'm prepared to speak to that. We are not going to direct our police when it

comes to operational matters. But again, I think we need to ensure that the police know they have our support as they express restraint, and all of us should be determined to bring this to a

successful conclusion through patience and goodwill.

Mr. Hampton: And I think you have a responsibility, Premier, to ask the tough questions. One of the questions that remains unanswered is: Why,

really, did the OPP resort to use of force? The original rationale was that they had new confidential information. When I asked your Minister of Community Safety yesterday, he didn't refer to that

at all. He said it was because of the court order, as a result of private litigation. Is that how these issues are going to be determined under the McGuinty government, simply private litigation,

and then the police act as a result of the court order flowing from the private litigation?

It seems to me, Premier, you've got a responsibility to the people of Ontario to show some leadership here. You had a warning of over a year. Now we have

further escalation as a result of the OPP use of force. Please tell us: Where is the direction from your government, where is the leadership from your government, on this important issue?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: I think now we have it. Now we've come to the crux of the position taken by the NDP. They believe that the government of

the day should be providing direction to the Ontario Provincial Police on operational issues. We see things differently. We think it's important to understand that we do not, in fact, live in a

police state. We have a privilege here in this House of making laws, the judges have the opportunity to interpret those laws, and our police have the special responsibility to uphold those laws.

This is not a police state; it is a democracy. The leader of the NDP should understand that the police have to exercise judgment. They have to exercise discretion from time to time when it comes to

moving on these things. The fact of the matter is, yes, they were bound by a court order issued by an Ontario court. How long is the leader of the NDP suggesting that they not comply with that

order? Maybe he's got another answer that he might be able to provide us with, but we have confidence that our police will do the right thing in the circumstances.

PROPERTY TAXATION

Mr. Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): I say to the Premier that people have a right to expect some public policy guidelines from your

government and not have the police operate according to private litigation.

Premier, on Saturday, you told the Ottawa media that you are seized with the issue of unfair property taxes. I agree. You are seized -- seized like a rusty

engine, because in the third year of your government you have done nothing to address the issue of unfair and regressive property taxes.

Premier, what, specifically, does the McGuinty government intend to do to address the very clear issue of unfair and regressive property taxes?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Research and Innovation): Speaker, I know the Minister of Finance would like to speak to this.

Hon. Dwight Duncan (Minister of Finance, Chair of the Management Board of Cabinet): I think all of us in this House share a concern and the

goal of maintaining a property tax system that's transparent and accountable to taxpayers and to municipalities. We have received the report of the Ombudsman, which had 22 recommendations. We have

now acted on 17 of those -- MPAC itself. Of those that were recommended directly to the province, we've acted on three of them. We have further indicated our desire to look at the balance of the

two remaining initiatives.

We are also cognizant of the challenges around property tax assessment in Ontario. What we want to do is to make sure that in moving forward, we get it right

this time, that we don't make mistakes that will cost, for instance, one community versus another, one neighbourhood within a community versus another. We believe we're taking the prudent and

responsible course in terms of addressing --

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. Hampton: I agree that the Premier seems to be seized; he couldn't get out of his seat to answer the question.

Yesterday, Premier, I was in a community that you should know, the community of Ottawa, with the NDP's property tax task force. People in Ottawa are very clear

about some of the issues they want addressed. For example, people there have read the Ombudsman's report and they know about the Ombudsman's recommendations. They want to know if you're going to

implement those recommendations. People also know about the issue of downloading, how much in terms of the cost of services has been downloaded by the provincial government and the federal

government onto municipal property taxpayers. They want to know, and I'm asking you now, are you going to act on those two things, the issue of downloading and the issue of the Ombudsman's

recommendations?

Hon. Mr. Duncan: In response to the member, first of all, with respect specifically to the Ombudsman, 17 of the recommendations directed to

MPAC are being done. There are five directed to the province; we've undertaken three. There are a couple more that we've said we're going to look at more carefully. We want to make sure, for

instance, that we take into account the position of the Information and Privacy Commissioner.

With respect to the relationship between the province and the municipalities, we remind you that this government has begun to upload, for instance, land

ambulance costs, which are moving to a true 50%. With respect to public health, we have begun there as well: this year, 65%; next year, 75%. I'll remind the member opposite that he voted against

that in both cases.

The Premier has acknowledged and this government has acknowledged the challenge. We've acknowledged there's a capacity issue. We're undoing the damage that's

been done by previous governments, but we're doing it in a prudent and responsible fashion that will --

The Speaker: Thank you, Minister.

Final supplementary?

Mr. Hampton: Once again, I say to the Premier, these are people in your own city who want to know what is going to happen. So far, all they

can clearly see is that your government is indeed seized up on these issues.

For example, you talk about land ambulance. Land ambulance means that in 2008, your government might cover half of the 2005 costs. We all know that the cost of

land ambulance is escalating. When we talk about public health, we also know that, in fact, your contribution to many public health programs has been capped.

What municipalities want to know is, how much longer under the McGuinty government will their property taxes be used to cover costs that are really the

responsibility of the McGuinty government? When are you going to keep your promise to upload the download, reverse the download? When are we going to see that, Premier?

Hon. Mr. Duncan: It's already begun. I'll remind the member about the gas tax, which you voted against. Let's talk about municipal records.

Whatever happened to the social contract? Who bore the cost of the social contract? It was municipalities and working people.

In 1990, you promised to reform the property tax system. Did you do it? No, you didn't; you exacerbated it. Now the member opposite says he wants poorer

neighbourhoods to subsidize wealthier neighbourhoods. That's hardly the Tommy Douglas model that I would have imagined that party would support. In terms of the context of the debate today on MPAC,

what did your critic have to say in Ottawa as he was being booed out of the hall? He said, "We don't have a policy. The party is in the gestation of looking at some kind of official policy. We'll

have a position by 2007."

We have a position today. It's a fair relationship between the province and municipalities. It's a fair property tax system that will serve the interests of

all Ontarians -- something we're getting right, sir. You never did. We're fixing a mess they created, and we're proud to do it in a prudent and responsible fashion.

OHIP OFFICE

Ms. Laurie Scott (Haliburton-Victoria-Brock): To the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care: Minister, in yet another example of Ontarians

paying more and getting less, the people of my riding of Haliburton-Victoria-Brock are losing the OHIP outreach office in Lindsay, thanks to your decision to close this office.

The service is extremely valuable to the people of the city of Kawartha Lakes, which is a community of over 72,000. The office operates two days a month and

provides much-needed access to OHIP cards for my constituents. Minister, why are you closing the outreach office for the OHIP in Lindsay?

Hon. George Smitherman (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): Yet another example that comes from the opposition party that there is no

evidence for that honourable member, none by nature of her question, of the significant investments that our government has made in her community, which raises the question of why it is that the

members of her community -- the question comes very clearly, I think: Why is it that the people of that riding are the beneficiaries of significant investment in the form of community health

centres and family health teams to address their underlying challenges with respect to primary care, and the honourable member stands in her place, only to characterize health care in her community

as deteriorating? I think this speaks to the underlying challenge of the opposition party: the fundamental degree of negativity that they bring to the work that they do.

The access to the OHIP card is important across the breadth of Ontario. We seek to make sure that these services are available in close proximity, and that

continues for the people of these communities.

Ms. Scott: Minister, without a health card, the people of my riding can't access the health care that they need, and it's getting less. The

people in Lindsay, Bobcaygeon, Coboconk, Fenelon Falls and all other communities in the city of Kawartha Lakes will now have to travel even farther to get their OHIP cards.

It's not just in my community. In the words of your spokesman John Letherby, these closures are happening "far and wide across Ontario." The outreach offices

have been in operation for many years. They're a valuable and important service to the people in rural Ontario.

Your spokesperson said that many services are available online, but you can't renew your health card online; you can only change your address. How does this,

in the words of another of your staffers, "balance the delivery needs of the public"? Minister, will you reconsider the decision to close the office in Lindsay?

Hon. Mr. Smitherman: I want to remind the honourable member that communities in her riding, including Beaverton and Minden, continue to offer

these services. We sought to take a look at the province and to make sure that there is equitable distribution of access points for the OHIP card. We're seeking, at the same time, to expand

coverage in other areas of the province where equitable opportunities were not present.

The circumstances are clear: We seek to try and make sure that access is equitable. This is a fundamental principle of the public health care system. That

honourable member stands in her place and only ever talks about those things which are challenges, and never about the significant investments that governments have made to address the underlying

circumstances and challenges in that community -- challenges which got considerably worse under that party while in government and are improving as a result of the significant investments that

we've been making in that honourable member's riding, particularly as it relates to primary health care.

Accordingly, I'm pleased at any time to come into that community and to talk about our government's record, the investments that we've made, and the work that

we're doing to enhance the quality of the public health care system for the residents of Victoria-Haliburton.

GASOLINE PRICES

Mr. Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): My question is for the Premier. Premier, today the US justice department has announced an

investigation into the possible manipulation of gasoline prices in the United States. My question is this: Is the McGuinty government still of the opinion that the only thing affecting gasoline

prices in Ontario is international pressures?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Research and Innovation): I assume that the leader of the NDP is suggesting that the federal

Competition Bureau might take a look at the issue of gas prices. Coincidentally, that's something that we asked them to do some time ago now. The former government chose not to pursue that, but it

just may be that the new government might want to take a look at that.

But we're not without some power here to assist motorists, and one of the things we have done, in order to help them better cope with the cost of using a motor

vehicle, is that I'm proud to say that for, I think, the ninth consecutive time last week, automobile insurance rates in the province of Ontario have come down. They're down by 13%, and that is

something that affects the pocketbook of Ontario motorists. We're pleased that at least in that way we are helping.

Mr. Hampton: Premier, no fewer than seven members of your government proposed measures to protect gasoline consumers, including your

now-Minister of Tourism, your now-Minister of Northern Development and Mines and your now-Minister of Citizenship and Immigration. In fact, only six months ago, all of your backbenchers voted to

establish a legislative committee whose mandate would be to figure out how to stop rip-offs at the gasoline pumps. It was six months ago that your backbenchers voted for that, yet it hasn't

happened yet.

So my question is this, Premier: Will you convene what all of your backbenchers advocated and many of your cabinet ministers have advocated in terms of

protecting consumers, or do you still believe the problem with gasoline prices in Ontario is all as a result of international pressures?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: There's no shortage of goodwill and good ideas on this side of the House when it comes to standing up for the people of

Ontario. What we will not do is something the NDP did when in government: increase gas taxes by 30%. It's good to know that the leader of the NDP is now going to begin to pressure the federal

government, and in particular the Competition Bureau, to look at the issue of gas prices, but on this side of the House we will take some pride in getting automobile insurance rates down. We'll

also, at the same time, be going ahead with our ethanol program, which will act as a real hedge against energy prices as we mandate the use of 5% ethanol by 2007 and 10% by 2010.

WORKPLACE SAFETY

Mr. Khalil Ramal (London-Fanshawe): My question is for the Minister of Labour. April 28 is the National Day of Mourning for workers killed or

injured on the job. I know you will be attending events in your riding to mark this occasion and spread the message of injury prevention.

I would like to mention someone from my riding who experienced a tragic loss to a workplace accident, but who found the strength to create a positive change.

Shirley Hickman is a constituent of mine who in 2002 founded Threads of Life, a workplace tragedy family support association. In 1996, Shirley's life was forever changed by the news that her son

Tim had been killed in a workplace accident. Since that time, Shirley has dedicated herself to making a difference in workplace health and safety, sharing her story in the hopes that heightened

injury prevention awareness will help save lives. Her association helps families along their journey of healing by providing them with peer support assistance and referral while promoting public

awareness and accountability for workplace health and safety.

Minister, please tell this House why groups like Threads of Life are so important in fighting the battle to end workplace injuries and fatalities.

Hon. Steve Peters (Minister of Labour): I want to thank the member from London-Fanshawe for acknowledging in particular April 28 as being the

National Day of Mourning. I would encourage all members of this House to participate in ceremonies and memorial celebrations that will be taking place on April 28, and would encourage you to be

there as well.

We need to use this as an opportunity to reflect on the past, but more importantly to dedicate ourselves to better prevention in this province. That's why

groups like Threads of Life, which was founded by Shirley Hickman, play such an important role. Shirley Hickman went through that experience of bearing that unbearable loss of a son through

workplace injury, but she somehow found the courage to dedicate herself to providing comfort for the suffering that others have experienced. She has gathered together an impressive group of

individuals who have dealt with tragic loss within their families. The Ministry of Labour is working with Threads of Life to provide better information and support the families of those seriously

injured at work.

The importance of injury prevention is a message we need to get out, to be conscious of the challenges that workers --

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. Ramal: Organizations like Threads of Life deserve our support and encouragement. Shirley Hickman has built an organization that helps ease

emotional pain and provides hope to those who often feel hopeless. She has assembled a group of remarkable volunteers who courageously share their stories of deepest loss in the hope that others do

not suffer the same fate as their loved ones.

Their efforts provide enormous comfort to those whose lives have been forever changed by workplace trauma, and their injury prevention advocacy helps protect

future generations of Canadian workers. But I know there are other groups like hers, and other courageous advocates, some of whom are injured workers themselves, who speak out in the hope that

other individuals, other families do not endure the same pain and suffering.

Minister, in what way is your ministry helping to raise awareness and spread the message of accident prevention?

Hon. Steve Peters: There are many advocacy groups out there that we do need to pay tribute to: the injured workers' legal clinic and Bright

Lights Group; the Ontario Network of Injured Workers Groups; Women of Inspiration; and various local groups, such as the Kingston Injured Workers Support Network, Thunder Bay and District Injured

Workers' Support Group, and Hamilton and District Injured Workers Group.

There are a couple of other groups that have played a very significant role as well. First, the Safe Communities Foundation, led by Paul Kells, which is

bringing communities together to create a safer place to live; as well, Our Youth at Work, which is led by Mr. Rob Ellis. On Friday, the day of mourning, I'll celebrate events that will be taking

place. I'm proud to participate in an event with Mr. Ellis that is going to broadcast a message to over 15,000 students in Toronto alone.

It is very important to send out that message of prevention. It's important to empower our young people to ask difficult, potentially life-saving questions.

It's important for all workers, regardless of age or occupation, to understand their rights. Workplace safety is everyone's business: government, employers, workers, union leaders, community

leaders and parents. No job is worth a life; no job is worth an injury.

GREENBELT

Mrs. Christine Elliott (Whitby-Ajax): My question is for the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing. A great deal of concern has been

expressed by the residents of Whitby and Ajax, and by many Durham region politicians, about a 1.1-kilometre-wide strip of land located on the Whitby-Ajax border that has been protected under your

greenbelt legislation.

One of the properties in this greenbelted strip of land is owned by the O'Conner family. They are currently operating a dairy farm on this property, but this

is not a viable, long-term option for them because they're being surrounded by subdivisions.

Would you please explain to us what scientific evidence exists that could possibly justify severing this land from its surroundings and placing it under

greenbelt protection?

Hon. John Gerretsen (Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing): Let me start by welcoming the member to the House and thanking her for the

question she has asked. As she well knows, we take great pride in the fact that this government took it upon itself to make sure that 1.8 million acres of land around the Toronto area are protected

for generations to come.

All the land that was protected within the greenbelt area was either environmentally sensitive or agricultural, together with some settlement communities that

already existed within the greenbelt area. We used the best science available, both from the Ministry of Natural Resources and the lead program done by the ministry of agriculture and trade.

I do believe the specific parcel of land she is talking about is the parcel of land that the town of Ajax, through a council resolution, felt should be

protected as well, as they felt it was good agricultural land. It was for that reason that that particular piece of land was placed in the greenbelt. We're proud of that record. We're very proud

that in many generations to come, the people of Ontario will thank this government for saving these lands for future generations.

Mrs. Elliott: Minister, the truth is that a lack of an appeals process in this legislation has generated significant concerns for many people

in Whitby−Ajax, from residents to landowners to local politicians. Mayor Dave Ryan of Pickering has said that he and other Durham region councillors have legitimate concerns and deserve to be

heard. You haven't wanted to listen to us on these issues, but why are you not addressing the issues of all the municipal leaders in Durham region -- not just one in Ajax; all of them -- based on

environmental science and not on political science?

Hon. Mr. Gerretsen: I can assure the member that the entire greenbelt was put together based on environmental and agricultural science -- the

best science that was available within the ministries.

With respect to the specific mayor that she talks about, the mayor of Pickering, I've had many discussions with the mayor of Pickering, but we have some

fundamental differences. We believed that it was absolutely important that the agricultural preserve within Pickering be preserved for generations to come, and that's why we made it part of the

greenbelt and that's why we're preserving that piece of land for agricultural purposes. We have exactly the same belief with respect to the Seaton lands. We've developed a plan for that area, but

we've also made sure that the sensitive environmental lands plus the good agricultural lands are going to be protected.

The greenbelt is something that many governments over the years have tried to do something about. This government, under the leadership of Premier McGuinty,

took the bold steps necessary to ensure that 1.8 million acres of land are going to be available for future generations to come.

FEDERAL TRANSFER PAYMENTS

Mr. Michael Prue (Beaches-East York): My question is to the Minister of Finance. There's word out of Ottawa today that, thanks to what the

press dubbed the NDP budget, this year the provinces are going to get a $3.3-billion cash windfall. Thanks to what I can only describe as the dogged work of Jack Layton, the past Liberal government

cancelled the corporate tax cut and put that money into services for people, like post-secondary education, public transit, affordable housing and First Nations. Can you tell us what is Ontario's

share of that money and, more importantly, on what specific programs and services will you be spending our share of those budget monies?

Hon. Dwight Duncan (Minister of Finance, Chair of the Management Board of Cabinet): The member is right. We received a letter on March 27,

dated March 24, indicating that Ontario's share would be around approximately $1 billion. It was interestingly placed in a trust for future use, as is quite a common practice; the Tories use one as

well.

The member will also be aware, based on the media reports, that in fact there are five envelopes, including the envelopes that he mentioned. We are in the

process of clarifying precisely what the federal government means by that money: whether it's new money or if in fact it is a reallocation of money that was part of the previous discussions between

Prime Minister Martin and Premier McGuinty. We expect to have further clarification on that over time, and the money will be booked this year in the files that it is specifically allocated to.

Mr. Prue: Minister, that's in part good news. But given your track record of pocketing federal money instead of spending it on what it's

intended for -- and the absolute best example of that is the clawback -- we want to make sure that this budget goes where it's supposed to go; that is, the four major things: post-secondary

education, public transit, affordable housing and First Nations.

In your last budget, the one you presented in this House just a month or so ago, you took the $150 million given for housing by the federal government and in

fact only spent $62 million of it, leaving $88 million floating out there somewhere. You've told us how much money you're getting: $1 billion. Can you give a guarantee that you will spend it on the

programs that it has been earmarked for?

Hon. Mr. Duncan: Every penny we get from the federal government is spent where it's supposed to be spent and according to the priorities of

this government. I'll remind you, sir, that you voted against it. You voted against spending the money on post-secondary education last year.

The envelopes that are in question are of a range, as was mentioned: public infrastructure, housing, aboriginal issues. There is some issue around one of the

envelopes, about whether that money will apply in Ontario. Those issues will be resolved. And I'll look forward to your not voting against those initiatives, as you've done in the 2004 budget, the

2005 budget and now the 2006 budget.

It was this Premier who negotiated the $5 billion from Ottawa. He led the fight on the health care money that we got two years ago. This government stands up

for Ontario. We hope you'll stand up for Ontario to ensure that in fact we get our fair share to invest in health care, education, infrastructure, aboriginal affairs and housing. We're proud of our

record in that area --

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Thank you. New question.

NIAGARA REGION

Mr. Kim Craitor (Niagara Falls): My question is directed to the Minister of Economic Development and Trade. Minister, the Niagara area, with a

population of over 410,000, is a thriving region. The region has many things to offer Ontarians and the world. Some of them include, of course, the falls, the casinos, our wine country and the most

beautiful town in Canada, Niagara-on-the-Lake. Investments in the region are on the rise as well. Residents are optimistic about the region and our future. Minister, can you please provide us with

an update on the new initiatives in the region?

Hon. Joseph Cordiano (Minister of Economic Development and Trade): Let me thank the member for his question and for being such a strong

advocate for the Niagara region. He has worked very hard.

Let me just bring you up to date. There have been some new investments made. DMI recently announced that it's investing in Ontario to build wind towers. That

will create 100 high-paying jobs in the Niagara region. I'd like to update you on the fact that GM is also investing additional dollars in St. Catharines -- an additional $170 million in St.

Catharines by GM. Great Wolf Lodge: a $130-million investment, which will create over 500 new jobs. That's a great news item for the region as well.

In addition to that, our budget announced $9 million for roads and bridges, creating additional construction jobs throughout the province that will also

benefit Niagara. There's a new hospital for the Niagara region. Construction will start in 2007-08, and that will create additional construction jobs. So good things are happening in Niagara.

Mr. Craitor: My supplementary question is also directed to the Minister of Economic Development and Trade. Minister, you mentioned Great Wolf

Lodge. I briefly want to say that I was there at the opening, and one of the comments was that the $130 million was invested in Niagara for two reasons:

(1) It's the right place to invest it, and

(2) it's because of the kind of government we have and the openness we have. So I'm pleased to share that with you.

Thank you for the update. Minister, as you know, the wine industry is a key part of economic development in the Niagara region. In 2004, the domestic wine

industry contributed over half its retail value -- over $243 million -- to the province in tax revenues. Hundreds of new jobs were created, and more than 750,000 visitors discovered the vibrant

wine regions of Ontario. Last year, unfortunately, the wine industry suffered greatly from the short crop due to severe weather conditions. Can you explain to the House what we are doing to help

support our wine industry, Minister?

Hon. Mr. Cordiano: I'm happy to bring the member up to date. The recent budget provided $3 million for VQA producers and an additional $1

million to the wine council to support wine marketing efforts. In addition to that, we as a government have provided $10 million to support the Wine Council of Ontario. This was in addition to

monies provided in the budget for marketing and promoting Ontario wines.

The LCBO also works closely with the wine industry to promote Ontario wines. In fact, they have a monthly VQA superstars promotion in LCBO stores. There are

plans for a dedicated VQA area in LCBO Vintages, as well as increasing sales of Ontario wines. The target is to increase them by 170% over the next five years. We also have a new, dedicated Ontario

wine flagship LCBO store in St. Catharines to help promote Ontario wines, selling Ontario wines. So a lot is going on.

We'll monitor this and watch very carefully to see if more help shouldn't be offered in the future. We're there to support Ontario's wine industry.

DISABILITY BENEFITS

Mr. Cameron Jackson (Burlington): My question is to the Minister of Community and Social Services. Minister, as the minister responsible for

the Ontarians with Disabilities Act and the Ontario disability support program, I'd like to ask you if you feel that persons suffering from mental health problems should continue to be eligible for

ODSP and that there should continue to be permanent disability recognized by your government through the ODSP and its programs.

Hon. Madeleine Meilleur (Minister of Community and Social Services, minister responsible for francophone affairs): Let me say that this

government has invested more than any government before to improve the lives of people on ODSP. We are reviewing the policy, and we're looking to work with the community and the parents to see

where the money in the budget would best help those in need in the community.

I can assure the member from Burlington that helping ODSP recipients is a priority for me, and we will soon be announcing where we are going to invest the

money.

Mr. Jackson: A constituent of mine contacted me a couple of months ago because, prior to Christmas, she had made application for the special

diet allowance through the Ontario disabilities support program. No sooner was she on the program than she received a letter from your government stating that her special diet allowance was being

reviewed.

You just said that you wanted to consult with the disability community, and yet you didn't consult with the disability community when you disenfranchised and

made ineligible thousands of Ontarians on the Ontario disabilities support plan. In fact, this individual suffers from severe mental illness. She was eligible prior to Christmas for the program.

She is no longer eligible because your predecessor, in her wisdom, determined that mental health should no longer be included as an itemized account for persons to apply. As a result, my

constituent cannot apply for the special allowance and she's had her permanent designation removed.

Minister, how can you say in this House that you are consulting with the disabled community when you're very actively disenfranchising --

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): The question's been asked. Minister?

Hon. Mrs. Meilleur: I have to tell you that the Ontario government has worked very hard to maintain the integrity of the special diet

allowance. What we have done is, we have added to the list. Before, there were no real criteria as to who should receive this allowance for a special diet. We have corrected the mistake that has

been made for quite some time.

We have asked the Ontario Medical Association to give us some diagnostics that will require a special diet. That's what we have done. We have this list, and

every recipient has received a letter advising them that this special diet allowance will be reviewed. That's what we are doing. We are doing it in a professional way, not in the way that it was

done before. I have to congratulate my predecessor for the work she has done in this --

The Speaker: Thank you.

HOSPITAL FUNDING

Ms. Shelley Martel (Nickel Belt): I have a question to the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care. The London Free Press reports today that

hospitals in Stratford, St. Marys, Seaforth and Clinton have "dodged the provincial scalpel by negotiating an agreement" with your ministry which will see additional money put into their budgets.

This money means that the four hospitals won't have to make cuts to patient care as a result of your Bill 8, which forces hospitals to balance their budgets. A dozen other Ontario hospitals still

haven't balanced their budgets because they know this will mean cuts to programs and staff too. When can these other hospitals expect a similar deal, so that they won't have to make cuts that will

affect patient care?

Hon. George Smitherman (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): As we worked very diligently through the hospital balanced budget process, we

sought, of course, to make sure that any alterations that occur are not impactful on patient care. With respect to the direct question the honourable member asked about the 12 hospitals that are

not yet in balance, in most of those instances we have a peer reviewer on site who is assisting us in determining what level of funding might be appropriate. Accordingly, we're approaching these,

as I've said so very often, on a case-by-case basis.

Ms. Martel: The question was, when can these other hospitals expect a similar deal? We know that a dozen other hospitals have not balanced

their budgets because they know that will mean dramatic cuts to patient care, to programs and to staff, and all these things will negatively affect the hospital and negatively affect the

communities. Peterborough Regional Health Centre faces a potential $4.5-million deficit. St. Joseph's Health Care and London Health Sciences in London haven't been able to deal with their deficits

either. These hospitals, these communities, need a deal too. When can these hospitals expect a similar deal, so that they don't have to make cuts to patient care?

Hon. Mr. Smitherman: The deal that the honourable member speaks about is not going to feel like the deal she offered to hospitals in Ontario

when she closed 11,000 beds while having the privilege of governance. We are, as I said in my earlier answer, working through these on a case-by-case basis with each of those hospitals.

NATIVE LAND DISPUTE

Mr. Dave Levac (Brant): My question is for the --

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): The member for Niagara Centre will come to order.

Interjections.

The Speaker: I can wait. Order. The member for Brant would like to ask a question.

The member for Brant.

Mr. Levac: My question is for the Minister of Education. The leader of the official opposition has fairly asked a question about our students

in the surrounding area from our school boards to their concerns regarding the Caledonia issue. As a principal and a guidance counsellor, I helped design some of the programs that are necessary to

help our kids through circumstances that are beyond their control. I would like to ask you clearly what we are planning to do, what we are doing, what we can do to help our students during this

particular crisis that is going on. I consider it a crisis regarding our students, because they're quite fearful. We want to know exactly what is going on to assure the parents that our students

are being dealt with and that our school boards collectively have something in place to take care of our students.

Hon. Sandra Pupatello (Minister of Education, minister responsible for women's issues): I think it's important, especially for members of the

opposition, to understand that the field offices of the Ministry of Education have been in constant contact, not just with the schools but with the boards in the area. They have been involved with

the police to see that everything is safe; I think that's everyone's primary concern.

Secondly, counsellors -- child and youth service workers -- have been in the schools. The director from the board, as well, has been at the school nearest to

all of this. I'll just read one paragraph that I think summarizes that the board, the schools and certainly our ministry are very concerned and active and, in a very proactive fashion, doing what

we can to assist the situation. This is just one paragraph of a letter that went home to parents through the children:

"During our time today, the staff and students had the opportunity to get together and discuss the situation that is going on. We stressed mutual respect and

the ability to work through our problems in a productive manner. We also took some time to pray for a speedy and safe resolution to the problem."

Thankfully, our board of education in the area is certainly concerned and acting in a very appropriate manner.

PETITIONS

PASSPORT OFFICE

Mr. Joseph N. Tascona (Barrie-Simcoe-Bradford): I'm very pleased to present a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario, which reads as

follows:

"Whereas, at present, residents of Barrie and surrounding area must travel to Toronto to receive a passport; and

"Whereas the only service available to obtain information or make application for a passport in the city of Barrie is through the post office or through the

local MP office; and

"Whereas a passport to travel is now becoming a way of life for Canadians and there is a great need for a full-service passport office in the city of Barrie;

and

"Whereas, due to the growth in population and demand and necessity for a passport to travel, a full-time service passport office in the city of Barrie is

essential; and

"Whereas, due to the current security enforcement in place, a full-service passport office in the city of Barrie is essential; and

"Whereas a full-service passport office would be beneficial not only to residents of Simcoe county but also Parry Sound-Muskoka region;

"We, the undersigned, petition the federal government to give consideration for a full-service passport office in the city of Barrie."

I support it and affix my signature.

SERVICES FOR THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

Mr. Peter Kormos (Niagara Centre): "To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas, without appropriate support, people who have an intellectual disability are often unable to participate effectively in community life and are

deprived of the benefits of society enjoyed by other citizens; and

"Whereas quality supports are dependent on the ability to attract and retain qualified workers; and

"Whereas the salaries of workers who provide community-based supports and services are up to 25% less than salaries paid to those doing the same work in

government-operated services and other sectors;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to address, as a priority, funding to community agencies in the developmental services

sector to address critical underfunding of staff salaries and ensure that people who have an intellectual disability continue to receive quality supports and services that they require in order to

live meaningful lives within their community."

With hundreds, if not thousands of, signatures from Niagara region, and my signature as well, page Julian is delivering this to the Clerk's table.

IDENTITY THEFT

Mr. Tony Ruprecht (Davenport): I have a petition to the Parliament of Ontario, especially to the Minister of Government Services. It reads as

follows:

"Whereas identity theft is the fastest-growing crime in North America;

"Whereas confidential and private information is being stolen on a regular basis, affecting literally thousands of people;

"Whereas the cost of this crime exceeds billions of dollars;

"Whereas countless hours are wasted to restore one's good credit rating;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, demand that Bill 38, which passed unanimously on November 30, 2005, be brought before committee and that the following issues

be included for consideration and debate:

"

(1) All consumer reports should be provided in a truncated (masked-out) form, protecting our vital private information, such as SIN and loan account

numbers.

"

(2) Should a consumer reporting agency discover that there has been an unlawful disclosure of consumer information, the agency should immediately inform the

affected consumer.

"

(3) The consumer reporting agency shall only report credit-inquiry records resulting from actual applications for credit or increase of credit, except in a

report given to the consumer.

"

(4) The consumer reporting agency shall investigate disputed information within 30 days and correct, supplement or automatically delete any information found

unconfirmed, incomplete or inaccurate."

Since I agree, I'm delighted to sign this petition.

LANDFILL

Mr. Norman W. Sterling (Lanark-Carleton): "To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas there is currently a proposal to more than double the size of the Carp landfill in west Ottawa; and

"Whereas this site has been in operation for some 30 years and had been expected to close in 2010; and

"Whereas the surrounding community has grown rapidly for the past 10 years and is continuing to grow; and

"Whereas other options to an expanded landfill have yet to be considered; and

"Whereas the municipal councillors representing this area -- Eli El-Chantiry, Janet Stavinga and Peggy Feltmate -- and the MPP, Norm Sterling" -- and Lisa

MacLeod -- "all oppose this expansion;

"We, the undersigned, support our local representatives and petition the Minister of the Environment not to approve the expansion of the Carp landfill and

instead to find other waste management alternatives."

I agree with that, and I've signed it.

COMMUNITY MEDIATION

Mr. Bob Delaney (Mississauga West): I have a petition to the Ontario Legislative Assembly that was given to me by Joe, Tammy and Maria Amaral

of Treeview Drive in Toronto, and I want to thank them for that. It reads as follows:

"Whereas many types of civil disputes may be resolved through community mediation delivered by trained mediators, who are volunteers who work with the parties

in the dispute; and

"Whereas Inter-Cultural Neighbourhood Social Services established the Peel Community Mediation Service in 1999 with support from the government of Ontario

through the Trillium Foundation, the Rotary Club of Mississauga West and the United Way of Peel, and has proven the viability and success of community mediation; and

"Whereas the city of Mississauga and the town of Caledon have endorsed the Peel Community Mediation Service, and law enforcement bodies refer many cases to the

Peel Community Mediation Service as an alternative to a court dispute; and

"Whereas court facilities and court time are both scarce and expensive, the cost of community mediation is very small and the extra expense incurred for lack

of community mediation in Peel region would be much greater than the small annual cost of funding community mediation;

"Be it therefore resolved that the government of Ontario, through the Ministry of the Attorney General, support and fund the ongoing service delivery of the

Peel Community Mediation Service through Inter-Cultural Neighbourhood Social Services."

This is an excellent petition. I'm pleased to support it and to ask page Kristy to carry it for me.

LANDFILL

Ms. Lisa MacLeod (Nepean-Carleton): I'm pleased to add my voice to the member for Lanark-Carleton's in petitioning the Legislative Assembly of

Ontario for the residents of Nepean-Carleton.

"Whereas there is currently a proposal to more than double the size of the Carp landfill in west Ottawa; and

"Whereas this site has been in operation for some 30 years and had been expected to close in 2010; and

"Whereas the surrounding community has grown rapidly for the past 10 years and is continuing to grow; and

"Whereas other options to an expanded landfill have yet to be considered; and

"Whereas the municipal councillors representing this area -- Eli El-Chantiry, Janet Stavinga and Peggy Feltmate -- and the MPP Norm Sterling" and Lisa MacLeod,

"all oppose this expansion;

"We, the undersigned, support our local representatives and petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to ensure the Minister of the Environment does not

approve the expansion of the Carp landfill and instead to find other waste management alternatives."

I, like many of my constituents, affix my signature to this petition.

AGGREGATE EXTRACTION

Mr. Kevin Daniel Flynn (Oakville): "Petition to Rescind Joint Board Decision (June 8, 2005) Approving the Applications of Dufferin Aggregates

to Expand Its Mining Licence in the Niagara Escarpment World Biosphere Reserve.

"To the Legislature of Ontario:

"There are numerous reasons for rescinding the joint board decision, including the following:

"Whereas the decision contravenes the purpose of the Niagara Escarpment Planning and Development Act;

"Whereas the decision sets a precedent for quarry expansion licences on the Niagara Escarpment;

"Whereas this decision could lead to habitat destruction for species of concern;

"Whereas escarpment rural lands are equivalent to buffer designation under the United Nations' framework for biosphere reserve...;

"Whereas to attempt to maintain the significant wetlands and the stream's course, water will have to be pumped in perpetuity;

"Whereas this decision allows for pumping 50 feet/17 metres below the water table;

"Whereas the 50-foot dams to be constructed have a potential for failure;

"Whereas aggregate can be readily accessed close to market off the Niagara Escarpment in land that is not protected or at risk;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislature of Ontario as follows:

"We call on the government ... to:

"Issue an order by the Lieutenant Governor in Council ... rescinding the decision made by the joint board dated June 8, 2005, approving the applications of

Dufferin Aggregates in regards to this matter; and

"Issue an order by the cabinet substituting for the decision of the board on this matter, a decision rejecting the applications of Dufferin."

NATIVE LAND DISPUTE

Mr. Toby Barrett (Haldimand-Norfolk-Brant): I have a petition titled "We Demand Leadership in Land Dispute," directed towards the Legislative

Assembly of Ontario.

"Whereas the McGuinty government was notified of this land issue over a year ago; and

"Whereas the standoff has been ongoing since February 28, 2006; and

"Whereas there has been no leadership from senior levels of government;

"We, the undersigned, demand the McGuinty Liberals start showing some real, consistent and timely leadership in dealing with the current standoff in

Caledonia."

These names were gathered late last night, and I affix my signature to this.

LONG-TERM CARE

Mr. Dave Levac (Brant): I appreciate this opportunity. I'm sending this petition to the Legislative Assembly on behalf of my seatmate, David

Caplan, the minister of infrastructure renewal.

"We, the undersigned, who are members of family councils, residents' councils and/or supporters of long-term care in Ontario, petition the Legislative Assembly

of Ontario to increase operating funding to long-term-care homes by $306.6 million, which will allow the hiring of more staff to provide an additional 20 minutes of care per resident per day over

the next two years (2006 and 2007)."

I sign this petition on behalf of my seatmate.

PUBLIC EDUCATION

Mr. Tony Ruprecht (Davenport): I have a petition that's addressed to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario. It reads as follows:

"Whereas the people of Ontario demand a quality public education system that will give our children the tools to compete with the world; and

"Whereas Premier McGuinty and the Liberal caucus are fighting for our future by implementing a positive plan to improve our public schools, including smaller

class sizes;

"Whereas the Conservative" establishment "want to take millions from public education to literally pay people to withdraw their children from the public system

and send them to elite private schools;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to support Premier McGuinty in his commitment to giving our children a ladder to success

through excellent public education and not spend taxpayer dollars to benefit the few who can afford private school tuitions."

Since I agree with this petition, I'm delighted to sign it.

NATIVE LAND DISPUTE

Mr. Tim Hudak (Erie-Lincoln): I'm pleased to read a petition like that of my colleague from Haldimand-Norfolk-Brant. It reads as follows: "We

Demand Leadership in Land Dispute

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the McGuinty government was notified of this land issue over a year ago; and

"Whereas the standoff has been ongoing since February 28, 2006; and

"Whereas there has been no leadership from senior levels of government;

"We, the undersigned, demand the McGuinty Liberals start showing some real, consistent and timely leadership in dealing with the current standoff in

Caledonia."

In support, I affix my signature as well.

PROPERTY TAXATION

Ms. Shelley Martel (Nickel Belt): I have a petition addressed to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario. It reads as follows:

"Whereas it is recognized by all levels of government that reliance on property taxes by municipalities is inherently flawed as an instrument for funding the

long-term needs of municipalities as they are based on assessable property values and not the ability to pay; and

"Whereas the present market value assessment system is not transparent in that the Municipal Property Assessment Corporation does not release details to the

public as to how it applies the reassessment equation; and

"Whereas the present market value assessment system contributes to inflationary pressures by taxing unrealized capital gains;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to institute a review of the current market value assessment system and, in the interim,

immediately amend the Municipal Act to include a cap on residential property tax increases to be the lesser of 5% of the previous year's assessment or the previous year's increase in the annualized

consumer price index."

This petition was sent to me by Derek Derasp of Skead. It's signed by a number of residents who live in Skead, which is in my riding. I agree with the

petitioners, and I've affixed my signature to this.

LONG-TERM CARE

Mr. Dave Levac (Brant): I appreciate the opportunity to present another petition on behalf of the Honourable David Caplan, the minister of

infrastructure renewal, from his good riding of Don Valley East. This is a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario.

"Whereas long-term-care funding levels are too low to enable homes to provide the care and services our aging seniors and parents who are residents of

long-term-care homes need, with the respect and dignity that they deserve; and

"Whereas, even with recent funding increases and a dedicated staff who do more than their best, there is still not enough time available to provide the care

residents need. For example, 10 minutes, and sometimes less, is simply not enough time to assist a resident to get up, dressed, to the bathroom and then to the dining room for breakfast; and

"Whereas those unacceptable care and service levels are now at risk of declining;

"We, the undersigned, who are members of family councils, residents' councils and/or supporters of long-term care in Ontario, petition the Legislative Assembly

of Ontario to increase operating funding to long-term-care homes by $306.6 million, which will allow the hiring of more staff to provide an additional 20 minutes of care per resident per day over

the next two years (2006 and 2007)."

I sign my name to this petition and hand it over to page Alyna from Brant. I'm very proud of her. Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

TRANSPARENT DRUG SYSTEM

FOR PATIENTS ACT, 2006 /

LOI DE 2006 SUR UN RÉGIME

DE MÉDICAMENTS TRANSPARENT

POUR LES PATIENTS

Resuming the debate adjourned on April 20, 2006, on the motion for second reading of Bill 102,

An Act to amend the Drug Interchangeability and Dispensing Fee

Act and the Ontario Drug Benefit Act / Projet de loi 102, Loi modifiant la

Loi sur l'interchangeabilité des médicaments et les honoraires de préparation et la

Loi sur le régime

de médicaments de l'Ontario.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Ted Arnott): We're resuming debate on Bill 102. When the House last dealt with this issue, the member for Erie-Lincoln

had the floor. The member is present, and I would turn to the member for Erie-Lincoln and recognize him.

Mr. Tim Hudak (Erie-Lincoln): Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Do you mind reminding me where I was?

Hon. James J. Bradley (Minister of Tourism, minister responsible for seniors, Government House Leader): You were saying how good the bill

was.

Mr. Hudak: I like that. My colleague from St. Catharines said I was saying how good the bill was. You probably had a chance to look at my

comments. It's good for Wal-Mart and Shoppers Drug Mart. I was pointing out the irony of that because many members in the House here would probably find it interesting that the large drug chains

will probably benefit significantly from this bill, at the expense of the small mom-and-pop pharmacy operations in the province.

This is the CIBC World Markets equity research company update that I'm quoting from, so it's not just the MPP for Erie-Lincoln. I thought members would find it

interesting that CIBC is making that point.

Let me give you some highlights again from their document. "As currently structured, the changes are generally negative for the pharmacy industry, but

particularly troublesome for smaller, independent players.

"As the largest player in Ontario, Shoppers will be impacted. However ... Shoppers" -- Wal-Mart etc. -- "has options available to it that are not possible for

the smaller, independent players."

The Ontario government has proposed changes to the drug benefit plan that will impact retail operators. The government "has attempted to cobble together a

program that does not materially harm pharmacists, while reducing government costs.... We are not sure that this bill accomplishes these goals in a judicious manner."

They go on to say, "Independent pharmacists, who have no leverage" in the marketplace "will be at huge risk if this passes."

Not to dwell on this too much, as there are other aspects I wanted to address, but CIBC World Markets concluded by saying that, as structured, this bill

provides no incentives for pharmacists to help reduce health care costs by counselling, advising and/or promoting generics. "As structured, this bill not only contains no incentive ... it could

also be a blow to drugstores, in particular the mom-and-pop operations."

I thought I should bring this to the members' attention because I do believe there is a great deal of sympathy among members for the mom-and-pop pharmacists

that serve our communities, particularly the smaller communities. I do hope we'll see some amendments in the bill to address this issue highlighted not only by the pharmacists but, as you can see

here, in the CIBC report.

The second issue I wanted to make some comments on -- many of you may have seen Minister Smitherman's appearance on Focus Ontario this past weekend. It was a

good discussion. On a couple of occasions, the minister used a word -- that there would be a substitution for "same" drugs or "similar." Sometimes "similar" was used and sometimes "same" was used.

I think that getting to the bottom of what the language is that allows for interchangeability of drugs is going to be crucial to determining if Bill 102 will improve health care or potentially harm

patients, depending on how that definition comes into play. That's why I'm pleased that my colleague the member for Kitchener-Waterloo has pressed for public hearings on this, so we can better

understand.

For example, the bill allows the drug czar -- I think they call him the executive director, but effectively he's the drug czar -- to determine

interchangeability on drugs that are similar, as opposed to the same. Mr. Speaker, I think you well know that currently a patient who's on an expired brand product could be substituted a generic

equivalent that has already been deemed bio-equivalent by Health Canada. The scientists at Health Canada would have studied this and made the determination that there's bio-equivalency and

therefore substitution would be allowed. That has been the case in Ontario for some time because it has had the stamp of approval from Health Canada after extensive research.

The bill, as I read it today, gives caution that it may allow a pharmacist to give another product in a class that may be different to that which the physician

prescribed if it's deemed interchangeable by the drug czar. This would not necessarily take into account, for example, the physician's intimate knowledge of his or patient. The physician may

disagree with that substitution to a similar product that is a change from the current definition of "same."

Another issue brought up on the show was -- I know our constituents have inquired about this too: What happens if the doctor indicates on the scrip that no

substitutions should be allowed? Would there still be substitutions taking place under this legislation, if passed as it is? Both those questions deserve considerable research and input at the

committee level, hopefully to make sure that this bill will improve health care and the quality of service that patients receive under the Ontario drug benefit program.

As I said, as the finance critic, I think that at its heart, this bill is more about cutting costs than improving the quality of care. My colleagues opposite

on the government side have said that people should not get their hopes up about new, breakthrough drugs coming on the formulary too quickly. Sometimes members opposite say, "This is going to

happen"; other times they say, "Don't get your hopes up. This isn't going to happen any time soon." I think the reason they're raising that caution is because, at its heart, this bill is about

cutting costs in the Ontario drug benefit program rather than improving the breadth of the drugs, particularly brand name drugs, that are available in the system.

I'll give you a couple of other examples that reinforce my premise that it's mostly about spending less in the drug benefit program; I think we should

understand that when we're considering Bill 102. Obviously, the government does need to get its expenditures under control. The notion of increasing spending by 9.2% per year is simply

unsustainable. The economy is growing at less than half that rate at a nominal level, so I understand that the government needs to get its spending under control. We certainly call for that. We

need to make sure that when spending reductions or controls take place, they're done in the best interests of preserving the quality of government services and, here, the quality of the drug

program.

Another thing I would call your attention to is the new generic pricing rule that would take place under this legislation, what's called the flat 50 rule. The

flat 50 rule would mean that generic prices are limited to a maximum of 50% of the brand price in all cases. That's a departure from the current 70% rule, where the initial brand on the list gets

70% of the price, and subsequent generics get 90% of that 70% etc., reduced down the way. So the 50% rule will be a reduction in spending, no doubt. The question will be, will that limit the number

of generics that will become available in the system or not?

Earlier, I spoke on the CIBC report about limiting the amount that pharmacists receive in compensation. Similarly, long-term-care homes would now have access

to government stock. The premise here would be a reduction of wastage of government stock. What we need is some clarification. Does this mean that the pharmacies at the long-term-care facilities

may have access to the stock, or are they being forced to purchase through the government stock only, which we worry would limit the amount of drugs that are available to long-term-care

facilities?

There are other areas that I'm concerned about. I am pleased, as I said, that this is going to committee. I look forward to further debate. But I do

particularly hope that when it comes to mom-and-pop pharmacists and interchangeability, we'll see more response from the government.

The Acting Speaker: Questions and comments?

Ms. Shelley Martel (Nickel Belt): In response to the comments made by the member from Erie-Lincoln, let me focus on two points that he made.

The first has to do with the impact of the bill on community pharmacies. I would assume that other members are receiving the same kind of faxes that I am from community pharmacies -- I'm talking

about mom-and-pop operations; I'm not talking about big chains -- who have very carefully talked about the financial implications they've already been facing because, for example, the dispensing

fee has been inadequate for such a long time and how the changes that the government is proposing will have an impact on them.

This is something that we do need to take a very serious look at in committee. I understand that a commitment has been made to have this go to committee, and I

will be sitting on that and look forward to seeing how many communities and what that structure will be. But I do think it would be very unwise of all of us to just immediately dismiss the concerns

that have been raised by community pharmacies. With the way they have been highlighted with respect to rebates and the way they have been categorized in that respect, there are significant

financial issues for them that are not similar to issues faced by big chains in the province.

I, for one, coming from a small community that has only one pharmacy, do not want to see that pharmacy affected. Many people, especially seniors in my

community, rely heavily on it. The next one is not for a number of miles away, and I don't want to see it impacted in a negative light, as I'm worried that many community pharmacies will be with

respect to the legislation.

Secondly, with respect to the bill being really one designed to take money out of the system, the ministry's fact sheet says that there will be projected

savings of about $289 million that will be savings for reinvestment. It would be a good idea for the ministry to actually put it in legislation that any savings would be reinvested in the drug

benefit program in the province, and then we'll really see whether or not there are gains to be made and where that money goes.

Mr. Khalil Ramal (London-Fanshawe): I'm delighted to stand and speak in favour of and in support of the bill. I believe it's a very important

step toward correcting this situation that has taken forever. I want to congratulate the Minister of Health for bringing innovative ideas to this place all the time, moving on important issues

concerning the people of the great province of Ontario.

This issue today is very important. It concerns how much money we spend on drugs to support the people of Ontario, to support the sick people of Ontario: $3.5

billion on a yearly basis. Our Minister of Health, our government and the taxpayers invest $3.5 billion in this area on a yearly basis. That's a lot of money. If we are able to save some money and

reinvest it back into the system, it's an important issue for people that will give us the ability to list more drugs and the ability to enhance the drugs we give to the people of this

province.

I think it's a great initiative. I think it's a great bill. It gives us the ability to correct what was not corrected for a long time. If you knew the amount

of the rebate that pharmacists and pharmacies receive from drug companies, you would be amazed. It comes to almost $300 million on a yearly basis. I think the taxpayers in this province deserve to

take it back. They deserve to get it to reinvest it in the system in order to help us to list more drugs, to give us more ability to