ISSN 0542-5492 Second Session - Thirty-Second legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS 31 Elizabeth II Published under the authority of The Honourable D. James Walding Speaker VOL. XXXI No. SB - 8:00 p.m., MONDAY, 13 DECEMBER, 1982. Printed by the Offfce of the Queens Printer. Province of Manitoba

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Second Legislature Members, Constituencies and Political Affiliation Na me ADAM, Hon. A.A. (Pete) ANSTETT, Andy ASHTON, Steve BANMAN, Robert (Bob) BLAKE, David R: (Dave) BROWN, Arnold BUCKLASCHUK, John M. CARROLL, Q.C., Henry N. CORRIN, Brian COWAN, Hon. Jay DESJARDINS, Hon. Laurent DODICK, Doreen DOERN, Russell DOLIN, Mary Beth DOWNEY, James E. DRIEDGER, Albert ENNS, Harry EVANS, Hon. Leonard S. EYLER, Phil FILMON, Gary FOX, Peter GOURLAY, D.M. (Doug) GRAHAM, Harry HAMMOND, Gerrie HARAPIAK, Harry M. HARPER, Elijah HEMPHILL, Hon. Maureen HYDE, Lloyd JOHNSTON, J.

Frank KOSTYRA, Hon. Eugene KOVNATS, Abe LECUYER, Gerard LYON, Q.C., Hon. Sterling MACKLING, Q.C., Hon. Al MALINOWSKI, Donald M. MANNESS, Clayton McKENZIE, J. Wally MERCIER, Q.C., G.W.J. (Gerry) NORDMAN, Rurik (Ric) OLESON, Charlotte ORCHARD, Donald PAWLEY, Q.C., Hon. Howard R. PARASIUK, Hon. Wilson PENNER, Q.C., Hon. Roland PHILL IPS, Myrna A. PLOHMAN, John RANSOM, A. Brian SANTOS, Conrad SCHROEDER, Hon. Vic SCOTT, Don SHERMAN, L.R. (Bud) SMITH, Hon. Muriel STEEN, Warren STORIE, Jerry T. URUSKI, Hon. Bill USKIW, Hon. Samuel WALDING, Hon. D. James Constit uency Ste.

Rose Springfi eld Thompson La Verendrye Minnedosa Rhineland Gimli Brandon West Ell ice Churchill St. Boniface Riel Elm wood Ki ldonan Arthur Emerson Lakeside Brandon East River East Tuxedo Ccncordia Swan River Virde n Kirkfield Park The Pas Rupertsland Logan Portage la Prairie Stu rgeon Creek Seven Oaks Niakwa Radi sson Charleswood St. James St. Johns Morris Roblin-R ussell St. Norbert Assiniboia Gl adstone Pembina Selkir k Transcona Fort Rouge Wolsele y Dauphin Turtle Mountain Burrows Rossmere lnkster Fort Garry Osborne River Heights Flin Flon Interlake Lac du Bonnet St.

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LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Monday, 13 December, 1982 Time - 8:00 p.m. THRONE SPEECH DEBATE MR. SPEAKER, Hon. J. Walding: On the proposed motio n of the Honourable Member for Riel, the pro­ posed amendment thereto by the Honourable Leader of the Op position, the Honourable Member for The Pas has 30 minutes remaining. The Honourable Member for The Pas. MR. H. HARAPIAK: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I was speak ing on the potent ial of agriculture north of the 53rd parallel and somebody had asked what we had done on the Saskeram, and th ere is a cont inuing dia ­ logue on the Saskeram area.

I had the opportunity to tour the area this summer in an air boat and I was able to see what a productive marsh looks lik e and how it operates. The wildli fe in the area was very plent iful and I would hope th ere would be more co-operatio n between all the different

part ies who are concerned about the Saskeram, but the multi -use land concept has not been accepted to thi s point; the productive area has not been utili zed to its full capacity. Mr. Sp eaker, I'm also ple ased that this Government has created a workers' advisory posit ion to help clie nts deal with workers' compensatio n claims th at have been reject ed. Again this Government showed that the North is a part of the province by appo inting two people in the northern part of the province. Mr. Sp eaker, I would lik e to congratula te the Member for Rupertsland on an excelle nt response to the Throne Sp eech.

He also spoke on behalf of many of my Nati ve consti tuents. Al th ough I have always enjoyed a good working rela tio nship with the Nati ve people, I came to a greater understand ing of their culture and thei r problems by attend ing a Conference on Nati ve Cultural Awareness held at Cranberry Portage. I have had some firsthand experience on how Native people are mis understood. Several years ago we had a young Native girl staying at our place when she was going to school - a girl from Brochet.

She had received an "A" in her mark on an essay, and child ren being what th ey are, th ey ridi culed her and made fun of her. She went to her teacher and asked the teacher if th at was a real "A" or an Ind ian "A". He convinced her it was a genuine "A". This girl went on with her educa­ ti on and today she is a community leader in her own community of Brochet and I hope th at her stay in my home, with my famil y, also had a

part in making her belie ve in herself as an equal human being. Mr. Sp eaker, the appoi nt ment of Leon Mi tchell to deal with the outstanding land claims has been wel­ comed by all people of thi s province. It is tim e the subject was dealt with in a lair and equitable manner. Mr. Speaker, the fish ing industry is in a ti ght eco­ nomic squeeze. They are faced with the same prob­ lems as the farmers in this province. The price of productio n is up and the returns in th eir produce is down.

The Mi nis ter of Natural Resources has had several meetings with the associations throughout the province and he has met with many people in the industry to see how improvements can be made. The communi ti es must be consulted on the issues of licence and controls of quotas. It is my hope that the provinc ial associatio n that was formed last Septem ber will help address some of th e problems th at are in the fi shing industry. Mr. Speaker, alt hough I am a Nort herner, I would li ke to overcome my parochialism and mention some of the items in the Throne Speech that appl y to the whole of the province. Mr.

Speaker, I am pl eased to learn th at the Mi n ister of Health has emplo yed a ger­ ontologist th at will co-ordi nate the programs of all the different departments that are meant to assist the senior ci t izens. They have earned the ri ght to li ve with respect and dignity and we should be assisti ng th em in every possible way. Mr. Speaker, as a parent of an emotionally handi­ capped son, and I know I speak for many people in this area, I am pleased th at the Mi nis ter has appoi nted a Director of Research and Planning which will move the depart ment more deeply into the area of preventa­ ti ve medic ine. Mr.

Speaker, in a book ent it led, "Every Other Bed," written by Mik e Gorman, the Execut ive Director of our National Mental Health Committee, you read th e astound ing and terr ifying stat istics that every second bed is occupied by a mentally di sabled person. The book goes on to say that th ere is a possi­ bili ty in th e foreseeable future of two-thirds of the beds in hospitals being occupi ed by mental health patients. Mr. Speaker, mental ill ness is costing this country mill ions of dol lars.

It is estim ated th ere are many more people comm itting suici de each year than are dying from communi cable di seases. Manitoba must, once again, become a leader and invest in a field of research in the area of psychiatric care. Mr. Speaker, the Mi nister of Energy and Mines, in his Throne Sp eech, made a reference to The Surface Ri ghts Act and said I would speak on this issue, having been rais ed on a farm and still owning some land in the Swan Riv er Val ley. I understand some of th e prob­ lems and strong concerns that the farm communi tie s have regard ing land rights.

I am sure the mechanism · developed to deal with the dispu tes aris ing over the acquisitio n and th e use of land for th e purpose of explo ratio n and product ion of oil and natural gas will be acceptable to all parties. The majority of the recom mendations are the result of a Commission of Inquiry into Manit oba's Surface Rights conducted by Russ Nugent that was set by the Conservative 197 Party.

The Act will provide for a comprehensive for acquir ing and utili zing surface ri ghts. will pro­ vide for the payment of a just and equitable compen­ satio n for the acquisi tio n and utili zatio n of surface ri ghts. It'll provide for the maintenance, preservat ion, restoration of the surface of lands acquired in connec­ tio n with surface ri ghts, and it will provide for the resolutio n of di sputes between operators, occupants and owners arising out of entry upon use or restora­ ti on of the surface of land.

The Act will provide for a Surface Rights Board through which the Act will be adminis tered and which will hold hearings to inquire into th ese matters for

Monday, 13 December, 1982 which the Act has been established. The board is to be comprised of no less than three members appointed by the Lieutenant-G overnor-in-Council, and they will take into consideration their familiarity with the agri­ culture and the petroleum indus try and the petroleum­ producing areas in the province. The Act covers the arbitration procedure in deter­ mination of compensation. This

part confir ms princi­ ples already established in The Mines Act, th at no operator has the right to enter or to use the surface of any land wit hout the written agreement of an owner­ occupant unless authorized by the order of a Surface Rights Board. To facilitate the process a standard form of lease will be prescribed by regulations under the Act.

In determining compensation. the board is req uired to consi der a number of factors including the val ue of land having regard to its present use; loss of the use of land; the loss of the land th at may be per­ manently damaged; the increased costs of the owner­ occupant by reasons of the works of the operator; and the nui sance. inconve nience, disturbance or noise or any other peculia rity to each use inclu ding the cumul­ ative effect if any.

Prior to a hearing, the board may grant to the opera­ tor an interim order for su.rface rights after seven clear days notice has been given to the owner-occupant. provided that the board is satisfied wit h any undue hardship on the operator resulting from not granting such an inte rim order outweig hs any prej udice to the interests of the owner-occupant. The Act deals with the question of abandonment and restoration of surface rig hts.

In the first place, an operator proposing to abandon or surrender part or all of the surface rights must give at least six months' notice of his intentions and shall dep osit wit h the board such security as prescribed by regulations. The size of the security deposit will be sufficient to ensure appropriate cleanup and restoration in the event of default by the operator. In order to complete his obli­ gations regarding abandonment and restorati on. four options are avail able to the operator. He can restore the surface to the satisfaction of the owner-occupant.

He can agree with the owner-occupant to make a payment, in lieu of restoration.

However. where the owner-occupant is not satisifed with the state of the restoratio n of the land, the opera­ tor eit her must apply to the board to determine the matter. whereupon the board may hold a hearing and issue an order. which would require the operator to restore the surface as specified in the order, or autho­ rize the owner to restore the surface of the land in a manner set forth in the order and order the operator to pay the costs of the operation; or he may order the operator to pay the sum of money to the owner­ occupant in lieu of restoration.

Where no application has been received by the board, to deter mine the matter, the operator may req uest the board to issue a certificate relieving it of any further obligations. There is a further requireme nt under the Act. that the operator has a continuing obligation to pay com­ pensation, until all caveats registered by the operator, against the land, under The Real Property Act and The Registry Act have been dis charged, released or claimed.

The Act establishes a liability of an operator for any 198 wrongful, injurious or illegal act, which results in unlawful damage of the land, to an owner, whether committed by the operator, or any of the operators, employees, servants. agent or person performing work, or providing service to the operator . The Act further applies to appeals against an order of the board, with leave of a judge of the Court of Ap peal, but only on a question of law. or a question concerning the juri sdiction of the board.

Again, with leave of the judge, an appeal may be made in the Court of Queen's Bench by a person affected by an order awarding compensation in excess of $5,000.00. Finally, where an owner-occupant of land cannot be ascertained, or his whereabouts determined, the board may grant permi ssion for an operator to enter on the land, subject to a depor · t':l the board of an approp­ riate sum of money. Similarly this procedure can be followed in the case where an operator cannot ascer­ tain or deter mine the whereabouts of the mineral rights owner.

The majority of the recommendations made in the Nugent Commis sion have been incorporated into the Act. Furthermore, a number of auxiliary points made by the Surface Rights Association to the Nugent Commission, have been accommodated. Mr. Sp eaker, in cl osing, I would like to speak on one of the most preci ous gifts that we as human beings have, and th at is the gift of choice. We are free to choose our thoughts, what we think and the words we speak. We are tree to choose how we will act, or react to persons, sit uations and conditions , whether posi­ tively or negatively.

During these tough economic times we could have chosen acute protracted restraint. Instead, we chose to help as many people as we could with our limited financial resources. Thank you, Mr. Sp eaker. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Mem ber for Swan Rive r. MR. D. GOURLAY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appre­ ciate the opportunity to make a contribution to the Throne Speech Debate at this time and I would like to say at the outset that, really, Mr. Sp eaker, I'm a love r. not a fighter. I would like to offer my congratulations to all the ap point ments that have been made to this Assembly since the la st Session.

Heaven knows, the Govern­ ment needs all the help that it can get, and we certainly look forward to the contribution of these new appoint­ ments th at have been recently made since we started this Session. I would like to also recognize the efforts of the Mover of the Throne Sp eech and also the Seconder of the Throne Speech. Certainly, they did a commenda­ ble job conside ring what they had to work with.

However, after having said that, I would like to offer my congratul ations, as many others before me have said, to the Member for Rupertsland who certainly spoke from the heart and certainly portrayed the sit uation wit h the people that he represents in the vast area of Rupertsla nd. I know the Member for Ruperts­ land has made excellent contri butions here in pre­ vious speeches to this Legislative Assembly and, cer­ tainly, I think we all have a feeling for the many

Monday, 13 Decem ber, 1982 comp lexities and problems that are evident in that area of Rupertsland. The Member for Rupertsland cer­ tainly gets the sympathy from this side of the House on many of the issues that he identified. Certain ly, too, we can attest to the Land Claims Commission. It is an area that we will supp ort and look forward to some concrete results from that comm ission in the months ahead. Jus t to mention about the Throne Speech, I couldn't help but notice the many speakers from the opposite side, or the Government sid e, how li ttle reference they have made to the material in the Throne Speech.

The last speaker from The Pas is one of the few that has taken time to really go over some of the points, but he did n't elaborate very much on the various aspects of the Th rone Sp eech. You know, really the Th rone Speech is a hodgepodge of make-work programs that we come to know so well during the eight years of the NDP adminis tration from 19 69-77. There is no change; there is the same ki nd of government make-work pro­ jects that was so evident in those years and here we have it again.

Ju st to li st a few, the $20 mil lion in loans for home insu lation, and heaven knows, we've had it ind icated here and previous speakers have indicated that this program has been worked to death. As good as it may be, there have been insulatio n programs now for a number of years, and I know in my own area of the Swan Valle y area there have been home insulation outfits tear ing around the country for the last two or three years. Some of them do a good job and some of them leave a job that may leave something to be desir ed.

Nevertheless, we have introduced this pro­ gram, $20 mil lion in loans to further the home insula­ tion situa ti on, $24 mil lion dollar s in new emp loyment expansion, 50 percent of which is to be financed by the Federal Government. Then we have the $4 mil lion accelerated Prov inc ial Works and another $1 mil li on for Cap ital Works cost­ shared in the Ci ty of Winnipeg. Sure, these are fine, these programs.

They will provide some kind of short­ term work emplo yment relie f, but it's a taxpayer type program, and certainly these would be fine if they were tied into an economi c initia tive which would provide long-term meaningful jobs that the Power Grid would have provided. Certainly the Power Grid was something that we could have had.

The Lime stone project could have been well under way at this tim e, provid ing a great many job opp ortunitie s at the sit e itself, but the var­ ious spi noff opp ortunities it would have provided throughout the Province of Manitoba is something that we could have really made good use of at thi s tim e, to say noth ing about Alcan, which I am sure there may have been some dif ficult ies in getting that going in view of the present situa tion.

Certainly the potash situa tion may have been in di fficulty as well, because we all know that there has been a change of government in the Province of Sas­ katchewan and why would IMC want to come into the Province of Mani toba when it has large developme nts th&t it can pursue in the Prov ince of Saskatchewan. But certainly the Hydro project at Lime stone is some­ thing that should have been under way if the Govern­ ment hadn't fumbled the ball in that project shortly after taking office. What happened to the great imaginatio n that the 199 ND P had which was so evi dent during the elect ion campaign?

I'm a li ttle bit hesitant to bring this pam­ phlet to the attentio n of the Assembly again, because I' m sure that everyone in this Hous e is well informed as to the misleadi ng situation and promis es in "A Cl ear Choice for Mani tobans." But, you know, I think that I have to sort of put it on the record, as we have here the Premier of the province, who was then the Leader of the NDP Party, says, "great people, great future. We can buil d a dynamic future in Manitoba.

We can turn around the harsh economic ci rcumstances of the past four years and we can provide interest rate relief and an economic clima te to ensure that small business stays in business." This was only just a li ttle over a year ago when this great document was spread around the Province of Manit oba. I think that really we should be sending it around again to remind the peo­ ple of what they were promised and what they had voted for. Certa inly, I would also like to then go on, this mes­ sage from Howard Pawley was sent out back in November.

Then we get the "M eeting the Chal lenges of Mani toba" - a report on action taken by the NDP Government from December 19 81 to November 19 82. Ju st to briefly refer to this document, I would like to quote, it says, "Already, basic aspects of this Govern­ ment's appr oach to prov inc ial affair s are cl ear. It has enough confi dence in the basic strength and great future of Manitoba to tackle economic matters actively and positiv ely.

The lim ited provincial resources and juris dictio n have been stretched to the limi t in an effort to relie ve high interest rates, climbi ng unem­ ployment and other effects of the severe national recession. Measures to strengthen the structure of Manit oba's economy are also under way." This was in November of 19 82, not very long ago. Then I would like to just come back to the last page where it says, "Keep ing the promise.

To even briefly describ e the other actions," and they li st a whole bunch of li ttle programs that they've been able to inc lude here, "to even briefly describe the other actions by the province to tack le the economy, those details are best left to the Throne Speech." So here we look in the Throne Speech to see the answers to, "A Cl ear Choice for Mani tobans." So much for keep ing the promise. lri the last paragraph, I would quote, "Rather than spend a great deal of time celeb rating the impr essive start to this term in office, Manitoba New Democrats would prefer to keep working on ways to better use this province's lim ited means of grappli ng with an economi c downturn that has brought such human misery and waste of our rich economic potentia ls." And that is a true statement.

You know, I think that this is really what it's all about. We have to get on with the job and not just send out a bunch of garbage here that there was no plan on doing. So, just to carry on further with meeting the chal­ lenges in the province, I would say that, obviousl y this is the worst year in the history of this province, and the performance of any government in the history of this province in the first year. Ju st to briefly mention the record unemployment, there are 24,000 fewer people worki ng today than there were a year ago.

There are some 52,000 people that are unemployed today in the Province of Mani -

Monday, 13 December, 1982 toba. Certainl y, those people are concerned and we're all concerned because of that. Record bankruptc ies, and this Government has certainly broken numerous records and that's in a negative vein. I would just lik e now to briefly refer to a letter that the Premier has sent out, back in August, to all the municip aliti es, towns and vil lages in the province. Ju st to read some of those comments from the Prem i­ er's letter . he starts off by saying, "Mani toba today is suffering from the effects of a sustained and deep international recession." This was back in August.

"P rovincial poli cy has sought to do all that is possib le to help indi viduals who are severely affected by the economic situatio n and to preserve the basic strengths and structure of the Manitoba economy." Again, not bad. "With no end to the recession in sight, it is impor­ tant for the publi c sector to continue adjusting to the realities of a shrinking economy and increased indi­ vidual hardship. In Mani toba, that adjustment is tak­ ing pl ace in three fie lds; repriori zation of programs is one, income poli cy and price policy.

The expected decli ne in revenues makes it important that provinc ial programs and spending, which are desirable but not essential, be reduced or elimi nated. The preparatio n of the 19 83-84 Provinc ial Spend ing Est imates is under way and the appropria te departments will be di scuss­ ing this with you as they prepare their Estima tes." Yet, the other day, when my leader was asking the Prem ier what kind of guid eli nes were being used, we could n't get that kind of information.

So what kind of information is going out to the municipali ties, so they can at least be co-ordinating their spend ing efforts with that of the province? But we haven't been able to get that information from the Premier as late as a couple of days ago. Real incomes in Manit oba have been decl ining for several years," and I' m surprised that the Premier would really recognize that, "and now many workers in the pr ivate sector are faced with tempor ary or per­ manent joblessness and even more severe decli ne in thei r real income.

It is impor tant that the publi c sector share this burden in a fair and responsi ble manner and to help achieve this goal the Manitoba Government has inc reased salaries of senior management staff by 8 percent, and Cabinet Mi nis ters are recei ving a 6 percent increase in remuneration." Now I was of the opinio n that Cabinet Mi n isters' salaries were set by statute and they haven't changed in the last couple of years, by Order-in-Council. The recently signed MGE A colle ctive agreement certainly was a generous - I thi nk the increase was a couple years ago, was it not?

I belie ve at that tim e, the Pre­ mier of the province voted against it. I belie ve that's right. So now, you know, we can't really say that the Pre­ mier is lying , but it might be referred to as a half-truth, to say that Cabinet Mi nis ters received a 6 percent increase in remuneration. All MLAs got an increase and I'm not sure what it worked out to, but (Interjectio n)- 12.9 percent? Anyway, just to conclude by reading the last para­ graph of the Premi er's letter to Municipal Counci l, "Mani toba has held its own by comparis on to other provinces during the fi rst nine months of this reces­ sion.

Your action and response to the continued downturn can help determine whether we continue 200 that record and also ensure that this province remains able to achieve its great future once an economic turnaround begins." This was signed by Howard Paw­ ley, the Premier of Manitoba. But. you know, after the Premier had sent out this notice the muni ci pal itie s took this to heart. The muni ci pal ities are really concerned about the types of spend ing that is going on, and I have a letter here that was written by Mayor Dick Penner represent­ ing a group of 20 municip al ities that met in southern Manitoba.

The letter was dated December 7, and the copy I have was sent to my leader, and it says: "Dear Mr.

Lyon: Yesterday, 20 muni cipalit ies from southern Mani toba met in Morris, Mani toba, to di scuss the ever increasing burden of property taxes that municip ali­ ties are faced with each year." He goes on to say that they really want to co­ operate on this cutti ng of spending, and they passed a resolutio n signed by, I think, all of the muni ci pal ities at that meeting - "that this meeting go on record as supporting the 6 and 5 restraint program as a maxi­ mum on a gl obal budget basis, that muni cip al coun­ cil s prepare a plan to pursue this matter further on a local and munici pal level, and that municipal councils hereby resolve to return all requests for increased funding which exceed these guid el ines." I understand that the Premier is not prepared to really go that far , he feels that this is being too restric­ tive on certain elements.

I understand now, too, that another group of munic­ ipal ities met in the central part of the prov ince. and they have come up with a simi lar response; that they are really concerned about the deficit situa tion and are prepared to really take a hard stand on the amount of spending in the coming year.

When you consider that government spend ing is made up, 50 percent of it is probably salaries paid to civil servants - I was a civil servant for a number of years in this province- and I would ventur e to say that the majority of civil servants were not expecting such a generous pay increase as they received here this year. It's absolutely di sturbing that they would get a settleme nt of some 13 percent on the average when a lot of people that are paying the bill s to keep the Civil Service in business have been taking no pay increase at all, or, in fact, many of them aren't able to keep their jobs.

A lot of businesses, as we already indi cated, many companies have gone into bankruptcy and so there are fewer businesses and we know from the Quarterly Report that there aren't the people or the corpor ations able to pay the money that governments can use, and we certainly cannot justi fy any 13 per­ cent increase to civil servants at a time when every­ body else is suffering greatly. You know, there's an interesting aspect that is hap­ pening with this Government.

The Swan Vall ey School Divisio n has been endeavouring to cut costs wherever possi ble, simi lar to other school di visio ns, and they had a very di fficul t problem to deal with in that they di dn't feel they could justify a French Immersion course in the Swan Val ley School Di visio n although there were some 23 students that were going to be starting Ki ndergarten and Grade 1, parents of which wanted the instructio n in French. But the school di v­ is ion di dn't feel that they could, parti cularly at this time, entertain a program of French Immersion which

Monday, 13 December, 1982 would cost several thousand doll ars to impl ement in the Swan Val ley School Di visio n. I thi nk that a lot of us know what happened there, the Swan Val ley School Di visio n tr ustees voted not to proceed with the French Immersion: they were ta ken to court, and th ey won the fir st round, but the parents took the case to App eal Court and the App eal Court overt urned the decision and so the School Di visio n was instructed to proceed.

I'd lik e to just read into the record a letter that was sent by the Mi nister of Education to the Swan Val ley School Divisio n and thi s was sent to the Superintend­ ent, Mr . Kastru koff, re: The French Immersion, The Publi c Schools Act, Subsection 79-4. "Your letter of September 7. 19 82, on behalf of your school board is hereby acknowledged. As you have indica ted, the Court of Appeal over the signatur e of the Honourable Jud ge J .F. O' Sull ivan did, and I quote, 'i ssue an order di rected to the school board of Swan Val ley School Di visio n No. 35 requi ring it to compl y with

Section 79-3, the school board shall group the pupil s in a cl ass for instruct ion and provide for the use of French as a language of inst ruction in the cl ass.' The ruling was made on the basis of the fact that th ere would be 23 or more pupils. The informatio n which you have now provided ind icates that at the present date th ere are only 20 students enrolled in the combined cla ss of Kindergarten and Grade 1.

In view of the fact th at the original request contained the legal number of pupil s and because much tim e has elapsed between the orig­ inal request and the date which the program was to be implemented, I judge thi s to be an except ional case and under the authority vested in me by Subsection 79-4 of The Publi c Schools Act, I di rect Swan Valle y School Di visio n No. 35 to imp lement the Immersion Program as requested by the parents of the di vis ion." This follo ws on the heels of a request from the Premier of the Province requesting muni cipali ti es and school di visio ns to cut back on the programs that th ey don't feel th at they can just ify at thi s tim e, and yet, the Mi nis ter of Ed ucation di rects the school di visio n to entertain thi s program.

Jus t to add insult to injury, the Superintendent of the school went to the Court of App eal, he pointed out th at he did n't feel th at it was feasible to combine Kin­ dergarten and Grade 1 in a French Immersion Pro­ gram, or any kind of program for that matter. How­ ever, the judge did n't accept his argument and, as I read in the letter quoted here from the Mi n ister of Education, th at the school board should proceed with grouping the students.

Lo and behold, two or thr ee weeks after the school board is proceeding with the program, the Department of Educatio n offers to pro­ vide a teacher's aide for thi s French Immersion Pro­ gram, whic h in turn the Swan Valle y School Di visio n doesn't feel tha t they can just ify because th ey have another 13 situatio ns where perhaps teacher's aides could be argued if they provide one for the French Immersion, which supp osedly did n't need a teacher's aide for the combined cla ss.

So, thi s whole thi ng snowballs, and alt hough I, for one, feel that the French Immersion course is th e only way to go to learn to speak French, I thi nk you have to be realistic and where you only have a bare minimum or not even the minimum number of students, I don't see how you can proceed, or force, with this kind of 201 program th at certainly does come fai rly expensive, and we're not sure what's going to happen next year or the year after, whether th ere will be enough students to really justi fy even proceeding, but once you have implemented it in Kindergarten and Grade 1, you cer­ tai nly have to proceed with it for the next 12 years, even th ough you only have one student conti nuing on.

I'd lik e to move on to make some comments with respect to the Mi nister of Municipal Affairs. The Mi nis ­ ter wants to proceed with a perfect assessment pro­ gram; he wants to go ahead with a perfect assessment program before proceeding, and we all know that Weir and the committee studied the assessment review for over two years. They met and di scussed the assess­ ment problems with all of the muni ci pali t ies in the province.

They came up with their recommendatio ns, based on the informatio n that the muni cipali ti es had provided to the committee, and these recommenda­ tio ns were presented to the Mi ni ster- I believe he said someti me in March of last year - and noth ing has happened since th at ti me, except he's ind icated he wants to study it furthe r. I' d just lik e to mention this is the Union of Manitoba Muni cipali ti es. 19 82 Program and Handbook.

On Page 81 there app ears a resolutio n, which says, "WH EREAS princ ip les and the procedures res­ pecting assessment of land and buildi ngs have not been updated for many years: and "WH ERE AS the Assessment Review Committee has completed its study, and its recommendations have been before the government for some considerable tim e; "TH EREFORE BE IT RE SOLVED that the Union of Mani toba Muni ci palitie s request the government to act immediately on the recommendatio ns of the Assessment Review Committee." This resolut ion was put in by a couple of munici­ pali t ie s and the execut ive of the muni cipali tie s deci ded th at they would not deal with thi s at the annual meeting; that they would discuss it with the Mi nis ter and his staff prior to the convent ion in the hopes that there would be some action forthcoming, and here it is now near the end of December and all we know at the present ti me is that the Mi ni ster has indicated th at he will be hold ing some further meet­ ings.

We haven't , as yet, found out what the Govern­ ment 's posi t io n will be with respe ct to th e assessment review recommendatio ns. I know that some tim e ago, he indica ted that some of his staff would be doinq some test cases in, I belie ve, some three or four areas of the province to see how the recommendatio ns would turn out. using it in real-life situati ons in various parts of the province. A copy of the Muni ci pal Informant that I got - I thi nk it was in the end of October - it said that informatio n was now comple ted as of the end of September.

Yet the Mi nister has not ind icated to us, after quest ioning in the House on many occasions, what the Govern­ ment's posit ion will be with respect to these recom­ mendatio ns; so we can only surmise th at the Mi n ister is dill ydall ying around with thi s. I might point out that the Mi nister had the opportun­ ity at the recent convent ion which was held the latter part of November, he had an excelle nt opportun ity to present the positio n of the Department of Municipal

Monday, 13 December, 1982 Affairs and. in fact. the Government to this large body of municipal peopl e. but no. the Mi nis ter did n't do that. He took at least two-thir ds of his allotted time and he talked about the Main Street Manit oba Program. -(Int erject ion)- I' m sure.

I was in attendance and li stened to his add ress and he took some two-thirds of his all otted time to explain the great things of Ma in Street Manitoba Program to an audience that was made up of at least 80 percent members of rural municip al councils that are not greatly impressed and have no objections. but really it doesn't affect them. Main Street Manitoba doesn't affect them very much. Furthermore. they feel that they have a heck of a lot more concerns in this province than to be spending that kind of tim e and money on Mai n Street Manitoba Program at this ti me. When you talk about repriorization.

I don't know what that means to the Mi n ister of Muni ci pal Affairs or. in fact. any of the Mi ni sters across there. but I would say that repriori zation would be to defer Main Street Manitoba until we get out of this economic sit uation right at the present ti me. Because just read­ ing the Winnipeg Sun. as recently as last Friday, the munici paliti es are in a great state because they bemoan the shortfall in revenues that are facing them -not only this year- but for the foreseeable future.

So. for the Mi nis ter of Municip al Affairs to get off on a tangent and really belabour this Main Street Mani toba Program. which in itself is fine. but it's something. I think. that has to be looked at with all the other serious problems that the municip ali ties have today. Certainly there are many problems out there. one of which is not Main Street Manitoba at this ti me. Jus t to go on further.

I' d lik e to just say a word about the payroll tax. which is certainly contributing to unemployment. and it's certainly contributi ng to the fact that new businesses are not going to relocate or come into Manitoba as long as we have this payroll tax. The Swan Val ley Hospital, for instance. will be faced this year with a $35.000 to $40,000 payroll tax bill. at least $3.000 per month on the Swan Val ley Hospital, and the Swan Val ley Hospital run a pretty tigh t ship.

Last year. they had something lik e a $1 0,000 deficit and they. of course. will have to try and bail that out. as well as pick up this $35,0 00 or $40.000 on the payroll tax. The adminis tratio n is trying to cope with this problem. To avoid cutback in services. they are reducing staff by attritio n and they are shif ting the workload with the other staff members so that there will be no cutback in services at that hospital.

I'd like to give the Mini ster of Health credit for com­ ing out and tal king to the Swan Val ley Hospit al and I' d lik e to thank him. too. for offering me an invitatio n to attend a meeting. Unfortunately, I had another com­ mitment on that evening. but I think they had a very fruitful dis cussion with the Mi n ister in attendance. with the hospital board. But certainly they are hurting right now and as I understand it - the Mi n ister may want to correct this - but he said that you can cut out all your special programs. but the Swan Val ley Hospi­ tal does not have any kind of special programs.

They are already cut to the bone and. as I say. they operate a tight ship there. They had a $1 0.000 shortfall last year. They're going to have to pick that up this year. plus the payroll tax. That is only one example of the payroll tax situatio n. 202 In the same Winnipeg Sun on Frid ay, December 10 th, and I would just like to quote from it. "Tax may land on municip alities," and it says. "Rural hospitals hurt. Municip al taxpayers may have to bail out rural hospitals that are being swamped with red ink because of the province's payroll tax.

"Several hospital administrators said yesterday that the payroll tax is swelling their deficits and they don't know where they are going to get the money. "They say all the fat has been slic ed from their operations." and I belie ve that. "and local municip ali­ ties may be asked to increase property taxes to help reduce the deficits. 'The 1. 5 percent payroll tax is killi ng us. said one admin istrator who did not want to be identified .

"What is frightening is that hospitals can't li ve withi n the Government guideli nes and people could eventu­ all y find that a large portio n of their taxes are going to the local hospital." So. you know. the situa tion with respect to the pay­ roll tax is certainly hurting munici pal it ies. it's hurti ng hospitals, it's hurting businesses and it's contri buting to unemployment. I thought I would lik e to take a moment to deal with the Northern Development Agreement.

Manitobans, I'm sure, will be ple ased to hear that a new agreement is signed, most of all the residents in Northern Mani­ toba who had been led to bel ieve that this program was going to be si gned very quickly because of the new renewed federal-provincial co-operation. Cer­ tain ly, one would have expe cted. if this was the case. that it wouldn't have taken a year for the new Govern­ ment to put in pla ce a new Northern Developme nt Agreement.

I would just like to say that I have had some time to go through the agreement; I got a copy of it just recently, but there are some interesting comments that I would lik e to make. Mr. Speaker. how much time do I have? Five minutes? Thank you. I just made some com ments with respect to the Northern Developme nt Agreement. There are 18 pro­ gram areas in the agreement. The Government of Canada is responsible for the del ivery of 1 O programs at a cost of $86 mill ion. includi ng 1. 4 milli on of Manit ­ oba funds.

The Province of Manit oba is responsible for the del ivery of eight programs at a cost of $10 0 milli on. includi ng 31 mil lion of Canada funds. It is interesting to note that, for the first time in this type of an agreement. the Federal Government is del ivering programs that are cost-shared by the province. The programs involved are the No. 1 program. Communi ty Regional Economic Development Plan­ ni ng. and No. 17 , Evalua tion and Consultation.

Both of these programs are highl y visible activit ies and one would wonder why the Province of Manitoba is not assuming the responsibil ity for the Communi ty Regional Economic Development Planning, Evalua­ tion and Consultation. There are only two things that you can derive from th is. The province either has no plans for Northern Manitoba or, perhaps, it is a di splay of federal intrusion into provincial areas of responsi­ bil ity for purposes of givi ng politic al identity.

Another thing that I'd li ke to mention with respect to the Northern Developme nt Agreement is that "the establis hment of the Canada Nor thern Developme nt Office in Thompson to manage and co-ordinate the delivery of programs designated the responsi bility of

the Government of Canada." So here, they have set up this office in Thompson to deal with the various Native communitie s such as the Northern Associatio n of Communit y Councils, the Mani toba Metis Federation, the Four Natio ns Confederacy, the Ind ian Trib al Councils, all of which have their head offices here in Winn ip eg, but now ORE E is going to be set up in Thompson. There is going to be all this travell ing back and forth between Thompson and Winn ip eg, and I know for a fact that people involved on these com­ munity councils, the MMF and the Tri bal Councils, are concerned about the increased travel;

whereas when they come to Winn ip eg they can do other areas of business when they're here, but they have to make a spec ial tri p to Thompson just to deal with this one aspect, important as it may be. However, I.think it is a very signif icant fact that a lot of money is going to be spent needlessly trave ll ing back and forth from the OREE office in Thompson, and how effective will the OREE office be in co-ordinating all of the federal presence that they will have in Northern Manitoba?

So, in terms of programs in the new agreement as compared to previous agreements, funding for No rth­ ern transportatio n linkages has been reduced sub­ stant ial ly; there are no funds for any highway upgrad­ ing or construction, no funds for interco mmunity roads. Some funds remain for communi ty roads on Ind ian Reserves, 10 0 percent funded by Canada, and Northern Affairs communit ies, 10 0 percent funded by Manitoba. Previous ly, this was cost-shared 60-40.

So when this whole thing boils down - it was announced, you know, 18 6.2 mill ion, I bel ieve - but really the joint agreement amounts to 67.4 mi llio n and, as far as I can determine going through the whole document, there is about less than $20 mill ion of new programming included in this $18 6 milli on package. That's over a five-year program, which amounts to less than $4 mill ion a year in new programming under this new in itiative program.

It took the new Govern­ ment over a year to get this in pla ce and the consulta­ tion process that they undertook brought out nothing further, no new intiati ves that hadn't been alr eady identified through our process previously. There are many other areas. Jus t one other area that I would lik e to briefly talk about and that is the Gas Rebate Program that was introdu ced as a result of the election in Saskatchewan.

We had a problem with border towns, and I have those border towns in my constituency, where they were faced with severe competitio n from the Saskatche wan gas stations where they reduced their price of gas some 5 or 6 cents a li tre immedia tely after the new Government came into being. The Mi nis ter of Finance indi cated that they would consider the pligh t of these gas sta­ tions in Manit oba. However, what happened? They said, as long as you don't sell more gas this year than you did in 19 81 , we will not provide the rebate over that amount of volume. MR. SPEAKER: Or der pl ease.

The honour able member's time has expi red. The Honourable Member for Radiss on. MR. G. LECUYER: Je ne vous appelerai pas Monsieur l'Or ateur comme l'a fait mon col legue le depute de Saint-Bonif ace puisque la coutume cou rante de nos jours designe votre poste dans les legislatur es ou l'on s'exprime en fran<;ais come etant le president pl utot qu'orateur. Je presume pour la bonne raison que c'est a vous qu'i ncombe la tache onereuse de presider nos debats et d'appliquer les regles et les tradit ons de notre systeme parlementa ire.

Done, ii est rare que vous ayez !'occasion d'ag ir comme orateur a moins qu'il vous faill e nous rappeler a l'ordre ou pour signaler nos contraventio ns aux reglements et aux traditio ns de cette auguste Chambre. A mon humble avis, vous avez admirablement accompli votre tache, jusqu'a maintenant.

Et mon­ sieur le Presi dent, je profile de cette occasion pour vous souhaiter sante et courage dans l'acc omplis se­ ment de vos taches et de vos responsabil ites si sou­ vent peni bles et odieu ses. 203 Monsieur le Presi dent, a cette occasion, ii est pour moi un honneur de s'adr esser en cette Chambre en ma langue maternelle. Je voudrais tout d'abord reconnaitre son Honneur Madame le Li eutenant-G ouverneur en lui expri mant mes voeux dis tingues. Je fel ici te aussi mes col legues, les deputes de Riel et de Thomps on, pour leurs paroles eloq uentes lorsqu' ils ont app uye et seconde le Di scours du Trone.

De meme je fel icite le depute de Ri ver East qui j'en suis sOr accomplir a avec toute la sagesse dont ii est capable sa tache en tant que presi­ dent supple ant. De meme j'offre mes meilleur s voeux au depute de Burrows dans son role de Presi dent du comit e permanent. Je sais qu'il remplir a avec di gnite ses fonctions et qu' il detie nt deja le respect de tous les membres de cette Chambre. En fin , mes fel icitations et mes meill eurs voeux accompagnent les deput es de Ki ldonan, Fli n Flon, Dauphin et Gimli dans leurs nou­ velles responsabilit es comme membres du Cabinet.

Monsieur le Preside nt, ii y a tant de choses dont je voudr ais parler en cette occas ion que je crains d'avance devoir me lim iter et que je devrais passer sur certains points de fa<;on trop superflue.

En tout premier lieu, je rends hommage a mon chef, le Premier Mi nistre de cette province, pour son ardeur au travail , pour son leader ship , pour l'inter et et le devouement constant qu'il accorde a tous les manito­ bains et a leurs besoins, pour son ouverture d'e sprit et pour !'attention qu'il a sans cesse demontre envers tous les groupes et les secteurs de notre societe, dans ses effo rts sans relache de coop erat ion et de consultation.

Les progres consid erables atteints durant cette recession severe et les programmes et les projets de loi que notre gouvernement a recemment mis sur pied et ceux qu'il se propose pour la presente session font aussi preuve que notre gouvernement veut tout ce qu'il y a de mieux pour le Mani toba, et demontre aussi que nous avons confiance en l'avenir et en not re popu­ lation. Nous n'a vons nul lement !'intention de l'a ban­ donner a la merci des evenements dif fici les que nous traversons.

Tout d'abo rd, monsieur le Presi dent, je veux expri­ mer ma reconnaissance a mon gouvernement et a cette chambre pour le fait que je puisse m'expr imer et me faire comprendre dans ma langue maternelle. C'est peu de chose en soi, ii est vrai; un trou dans le mur, une vitrine, un interpr ete et une technologie moderne deja a notre portee depuis des decennies. L' imp ortant c'est qu'enfin un droit acquis au tout

Monday, 13 December, 1982 debut de !'existence de cette province est retabli. Done un pas de plu s, un pas de plus vers une plus grande ouverture d'esprit afin que justice soit faite. Ceci me rejouit et rejouit le coeur de tout mon peuple qui a courageusement persiste a endurer et a durer a travers tant d'i njustice commises a son egard depuis pres d'un siecle. Graduel lement par des services gouvernementaux repondant a des besoins quotid iens, les francophones du Manit oba pourront se sentir acceptes et reintegres a part entiere comme partenair es egaux dans la societe manitobaine.

Ce geste concret fait suite lo­ gique a la decisio n de la Cour Supreme que le Mani t­ oba est officielleme nt bili ngue depuis son entree dans la Confederation. J'espere seulement qu'apres pres d'un sie cle de rejet et d'i njus tice que les forces devas­ tatri ces de !'assi mi latio n ne rend ront pas vaines ces mesures si longtemps attend ues.

Je dis ceci parce que je constate avec amertume que je re<;ois souvent des copies de lettres de mes co-citoyens manitobains envoyees aux Mi ni stres de notre gouvernement en anglais malgre l'app el lance par notre Premier Mi nis ­ tre l' annee derni ere, leur permettant et les invi tant a envoyer des lettres dans leur langue maternelle. Je presume que beaucoup d'entre eux demeurent tou­ jours intimi des par les evenements du passe. J'ose esperer que durant les mois et les annees a venir, ils reprend ront confiance et valori seront leur langue maternelle.

J'espere aussi qu'au sein de cette assemblee et de la popula tion manitobaine qu'il en reste de moins en moins qui, dans un esprit etroit et ferme, voient dans ce nouveau developpeme nt tout simpl ement une depense inutile. A mon avis, c'est tres peu a payer pour que justice soit faite. Apres tout notre systeme judiciair e, meme si tres couteux, n'est jamais mis en question car ii est vu comme etant essentiel dans une societe qui se veut evoluee et civi lisee.

J'espere aussi que ce geste nous portera tous a reconnaitre, a ap­ precier et a profiler des multicu ltures qui sont une des principal es richesses de cette province. D'ail leurs, monsieur le Presi dent, nous ne sommes pas la seule legisla ture au monde a fonctionner dans plus d'une langue. Dans lede rnier numero de la revue des parlementai res canadie ns que voici, Volume 5, nume ro 3, Automne 19 82, aux pages 21 a 23 un

article fort interessant dedie ac e sujet demontre qu'une ving­ taine de pays fourni ssent des services dans plus d'une langue. En fait, certains d'entre eux le font dans plu­ sieurs langues leis l'l nde, le Singapou r, le Sri Lanka, la Suisse, la Yougoslavie et d'autres. Cependant, avec l'l rlande et Israel nous avons la di stinctio n d'e tre les seules legis latu res a faire la traduction simu ltanee dans un sens unique. Je ne fais pas cette remarque de fa<;on derogatoi re, au contrai re, j'appr ecie le progres que nous avons fait.

Cependant je serais grandement dei;:u si en re­ acquerant enfin mon droit d' etre compris quand je parle, je le perdais dans les transc riptio ns des debiits dans Hansard. On me dit de toute fa<;on que cette chose sera bient6t corrigee car on aura en place l'equi pement necessaire pour que les debats soient transcrits dans les deux langues. Monsieur le Pres ident permet tez-moi en cette occasion de faire un retour en arriere dans la courte histoire de notre province.

Afin de souli gner ce qui 204 etait et de soulig ner par la meme les etapes franch ies. lncontestablement, la premiere langue etrangere parlee dans ce qui est actuelleme nt l'O uest Canadie n apres l'arr ivee des lnd iens fut le fran<;ais. La langue fran<;aise est parlee sur ce territoire qu'est le Manitoba lors des excursions de LaVeren­ drye et ses compagnons en 17 31 . LaVerendrye et ses hommes parlent fran<;ais a nouveau a la Fourche des rivi eres Rouge et Assiniboine, le 24 sept embre 17 38, !ors des transactions commercia les sur le sol qui con­ stitue aujourd'hui une

partie de Winnipeg. Monsieur le Preside nt. les archives demontrent que c'est en fran<;ais qu'en 18 12 fut lue la proclama tion qui declarait officielleme nt la pris e de possession par Lord Selkir k d'un vaste territoire dont la Fourche etait le centre. La ceremonie avait li eu dans l'actuel pare LaVeren­ drye a Saint-Boniface. Monsieur le professeur Gill, dans un

article intitule "Federal, Provincial and local language Legislatio n and the Franco-Manitobans" presente !ors de la six­ ieme conference biennale de I' Associatio n des Etudes Canadie nnes aux Etats-Un is a East Lansing, au Mi ch­ igan, en octobre 19 81" , p. 31 dit et je cite: "In 1845 formal provisio n was made that resolutio ns of the governor and council be publ ished in both French and Engli sh. The new polic y was ap parently followed, since the promulgatio ns of laws in French never figu red in sub­ sequent Metis demands.

Consolidatio ns of the general enactments of the governor and council were also publ ished in both languages. After a series of protest meetings and representa­ tions by the Melis, in 1849. the council unanim ously appr oved a requi rement that both languages be per­ mitted in court in all cases involving either Canadian or Half -breed interests." Fin de citation. Monsieur le President, je veux me referer mainte­ nant a un passage d'un di scours pro nonce par le Juge LA Prud'homme a la reunion de la Socie te Roy ale du Canada en mai 19 23, lorsqu'il parlait du premier parlement du Manito ba. Je cite.

"Le gouverneur McTavish proclama sa propre de­ cheance en 18 69 et invita les gens du pays a etablir un gouvernement d'occasion. C'est alors que Louis Riel, pour sauver le pays de l'anar chie organisa un gouvernement provisoir e. La societe a le droit de creer des institutio ns neces­ sai res a son existence. C'est un droit nature!. D'ou ii suit que le gouverne­ ment provisoire etait regulier, et constitut ionnel.

II est de fait not oire que si la colonie ne fut pas durant cette periode de profonde agitatio n, couverte de sang et de ruine, et si la guerre civile ne bouleversa pas toute la colonie, on le doit surtout aux Metis, am is de l'ordre et de la justice. L'Acte du Manitoba fut prepare par le gouverne­ ment provisoi re." Fin de la citatio n. Monsieur le Presi dent, cet Acte reclamait 14 droits specifiques dont 3 avaient traits a !'usage de la langue.

Je cite a nouveau le pr ofesseur Gill: "The Metis demanded that the use of both lan­ guages be guaranteed in the legislatur e and courts, and that all laws, court cases and publi c documents

Monday, 13 Decem ber, 1982 be publish ed in both; that judges of the Supreme court be bilin gual; and that all privi leges, customs and usages concerning lan guage at the time of union be respected ." Fin de la cita tion. L'Ar ticle 23 de l'Acte du Manit oba tient compte de ces demandes et accordait a la langue frarn;:aise des garanties comparables a ceux accordes a la langue anglais e au Quebec dans la

section 133 de l'Acte de l'Amerique du Nord Br itan niq ue. Durant les annees qui suivir ent, jusqu' en 18 90, la legisla ture provinciale dans les faits est alle e au dela de ces exigences de la loi. Le fondateur de cette provinc e et les autorit es d'Ot tawa avaient compris qu'en creant cette province ii fall ait le faire a !'image d'un pays a developper. Je liens aussi a souli gner que ce 1e r parlement n'etait pas constitue comme ii l'est aujou rd'hui en partis politiq ues avec un premier min istre. L'autorite gouvernementale etait alors le li eutenant-gouverneur Adams Georges Archibald et son conseil.

Suite a la 1 re election des 24 deputes elus, 12 par­ laient franc;:ais dont Jo seph Dubuc, Joseph Royal et Marc Sim ard, et Ma rc Gir ard, pardon, qui tous trois etaient venus au Man itoba a la demande de John A. Mac Donald. Monsieur Gir ard fut nomme Tresorier provincial et Monsieur Royal fut elu president de la Chambre. Le Discours du Trone fut pro nonce par le Lieutenant­ gouverneur en franc;:ais et en anglais et fut app uye en franc;:ais par Monsieur Joseph Dubuc et seconde en anglais par Monsieur Thomas Bunn.

C'est ainsi que le premier di scours d'un depute dans la premiere cham­ bre du Manit oba fut prononc e en fr anc;:ais et que le premier president etait un Canadien franc;:ais. Et of ficiellement le premier Premier min istre du Man itoba fut l'Honor able Marc Gir ard a qui le Li eu­ tenant-gouverneur demanda de former le 1 er cabi net en 18 74. Jus qu'a l'a rrivee au pouvo ir du gouvernement Greenway, les statuts, journaux de la Chambre, rap­ ports et Gazette officielle furent toujours impri mes dans les deux langues.

II n'est pas necessaire aujourd'hui de rappeler tous les deta ils de ce qui s'est passe en 18 90, en 18 97 et en 19 16 . 11 suffit simpl ement de soulign er qu'en 18 90 le statut legal du franc;:ais dans cette province fut aboli, seul l'anglais dorenavant avait le statut de langue offi­ ciel le. Ce n'est qu'en 19 79 que la Cour Supr eme, dans le cas Forest, declarait cette loi ultra vires. En 19 16 , un projet de loi adopte, fit de l'anglais, la seule langue d'enseignement dans les ecoles.

Cependant, les deputes francophones a !ravers les annees, et mon collegue le depute de Sai nt-Bonif ace en a profile a mai ntes reprises, ont tenu a affi rmer leur droit de parler en franc;:ais dans cette Chambre et a cet effet, je cite a nouveau le professeur Gi ll: "French was spoken very occasionally on the floor of the legi slature; when this occurred, the original remarks were recorded along with an English transla tion." Fin de la cita tion. Monsieur le President, je voudrais ici citer quelq ues passages d'un dis cours prononce en Chambre par le depute Joseph Bernier en 19 21 .

Je trouve ses propos tout a fa it approprie s pour cette occasion et de plus en rapport avec les procedures de cette Chambre. Je cite: "Trente annees se sont ecoulees depuis le jour mal­ heureux, ou des politiciens etroits et sans vergogne, ont cru bon de soulever la haine des races et de souffler le vent rageur de la guerre relig ieuse, dans le seul but de leur aider a cacher des trupitud es poli­ tiq ues et de conserver le pouvoir.

Ces trentes annees de mepris de justice, de perse­ cution, d'ennuis, n'ont pas encore reussi a demoral­ iser la vi ctime de l'attentat et trente annees de plus du meme regime ne reussiront pas a legalis er ce crime anti-national. En ce moment toutefois ou l'on nous parle tant de fraternite, de concorde et de cooperat ion, ii me sera bien permis de rappeler a cette chambre et au pays que !'on ne peut arriver ac e but que par le respect des lois, des traites, des engagements solennels, par le respect des races et du droit des consciences.

II me semble que l'on est trop porte a oubli er l'h is­ toir e du passe quand !'on s'occupe de legislation en ce moment ici. Je tiens a le repeter aujourd'hui, l' on ne saurait esperer voir vivr e l'harmonie parmi tout es les cl asses de la nation si l'on n'a pas en meme temps assez de generosite et de largeur de vue pour com prendre qu'aucune bonne entente ne peut exister a moins qu'elle soit basee sur le respect mutuel, sur le respect des conscienc es et de !'amour du sang qu'aucun homme qui se respecte ne peut renier." Fin de la cita tion.

Un peu plus loin dans le meme di scours ii di t, et je cite a nouveau: "Je vais dir e a mon Roi, encore dans ma langue maternelle, tout !'amour et toute la loyaute de mon peuple pour le Trone et les institutions brita nniques, amour et loyaute qu'il a conserve malgre les injustices dont ii a souffert depuis 30 ans dans ce pays, de la part de pygmees qui par leurs actions et leur conduite veulent faire du British fair pla y une expression vaine et mensongere.

Je desire aujourd'hui reclamer mes droits dans ma langue maternelle, et affirmer par la le droit de cette langue a se faire entendre li brement dans cette enceinte parlementaire. Je sais parfaitement bien que personne en ce moment, a

part la deputation franc;:aise, ne comprend · le premier mot de ce que je dis, mais que peu m'im ­ porte, pour le moment j'affirme un droit , et je ne veux pas que l'on puis se dir e un jour que ma langue a ete proscrite pour la raison que pendant de longues annees on ne l'a pas parlee dans cette Chambre." 205 Fin de la cita tion. Je n'ai pas besoin de vous rappeler, monsieur le Presi dent, les luttes que les franco-manit obains ont menees dans le domaine de !'education, luttes qui du rent depu is 19 16 . La lutte d'ai lleur s n'est pas termi­ nee.

Et je dis ceci en entendant dir e tout a l'heu re le depute de Swan Ri ver qui faisait reference a une dec­ ision de la Cour d'appel a l'e ffet qu'il fallait que cette di vision scolaire regroupe ces eleves dans une meme classe parce qu'il ye n avait vingt seulement. Moi je lui pose cette question et parce qu'il dit que c'est un coot supplementaire inutil e, je lui pose cette question: Est-ce qu'il n'y a pas d'autr es classes dans la meme ecole ou ii y a aussi vi ngt el eves pour un seul profes­ seur? Al ors ou sont les coots supplement air es reels? Et je do is aussi ajouter pour I' edification du dep ute de

13 December, 1982 Swan Ri ver que en realite cette classe de ving t eleves regroupes pour un programme d'i mmersion coOte en realite moins a sa di vision scolaire que les autres classes pour la bonne et simple raison que ces eleves dans le prog ramme d'i mmersion qual ifient pour des octrois supp lementaires de la province au

titre de 19 0 dollar s chacun. Alors pourquoi ce commentaire, est­ ce que c'est, est-ce qu'il est justifie, est-ce que ce sont des coOts reels? Ou est-ce que l'on emboite le pas a reculons? Dans un di scours en Chambre, en 1916 , R.S. Thorn­ ton alors Min istre de !' Education di sait et je cite: "The first essential to indi vidu al progress in any land is to know the language of the country. In an Englis h-speaking country as this is, a knowledge of English is more necessary than a knowledge of Arith­ metic.

No matter what a man's atta inments may be, the doors of opportuni ty are closed to him if he does not have a knowledge of English, the common tongue. We are building today for the Canada of tomorrow, and our common school is one of the most impor tant factors in the work." Fin de cita tion. Meme si la loi ne le permettait pas, ii y eut quand meme de l'ense ignement en frani;:ais parce qu'il etait di fficle de la control er de fai;:on stricte cette loi et aussi parce que certains membres du Min istere de !'Educa­ tion avaient une certaine sympathie pour le sort des Franco-manitobains.

II n'empeche qu'on peut de nos jours lir e les com­ mentair es tragi-comiq ues de certains inspecteurs d'ecoles qui se lis ent comme suit: Apres une vis ite a l'ecole de Haywood l'i nspecteur Newcombe ecrit dans son rapport. Je cite: "In lower grades they know li ttle or no English. A few pupil s in the senior grades can converse, say five out of six." Fin de la cita tion. Le meme ins pecteu r decrit la popu lation etudiante de Portage la Prairie comme suit: "39 Ruthenians, 5 Austrians, 3 Ger mans, 5 Poles, 2 French Half -Breeds, 3 Canadians" Fin de la cita tion.

Apres une vis ite a l'ecole de Sai nt-Jean Baptiste, l'inspecteur Lang ecrit dans son rapport et je cite: "None of the chi ldr en in this school can converse at all." Fin de la cita tion. Monsieur le President, ii taut croir e que tous ces eleves etaient des muets selon le rapport de monsieur Lang. Au cours des annees nous avons re-acquis nos droits en educat ion goutte par goutte. La loi 11 3 adop­ tee unani mement en 19 70 retablit le droit a l'enseig­ nement en fran9ais jusqu'a concu rrence de 75% du temps.

II reste que l'ecole fran<;:aise et l'ecole d'im mer­ sion qui existent dans les fails ne sont pas encore aujourd'hui reconnues dans l'Acte Scol aire. Cependant, d'aucun ne sauront reconnaitre tous les progres et les pas positifs accomplis depu is envi ron 70 ans.

Surtout a partir de 19 69 avec le projet de loi 59 adopte sous le gouvernement Roblin permettant l' en­ seig nement du fran<;:ais jusqu'a 50% de la journee scolaire, et I' adoption du pro jet de loi 113 en 19 70 sous le gouvernement Schreyer et auquel j'ai deja fait refe­ rence, ainsi que l'etablissement du Bureau de i'E duca- 206 tion fran<;:aise, la construction d'un Centre Culture! et l'etablissement de l'l nstitut peda gogique au Col lege de Sai nt-Bo nface toujours sous le meme gouverne­ ment.

Enfi n, je ne veux manquer de reconnaitre l'etab­ lis sement du Secretariat des Servi ces en fran9ais sous Monsie u r Lyon, et la traduction d'un certain nombre de lois. Et voila que depuis l' arriv ee au pouvoir du gouvernement Pawley se concretise de plus en plus une politique glob ale afin de fournir des services en fran<;:ais: perm is de conduir e, certifi cats de naissance, certificats de mariage et d'autres, et d'autr es a venir. Le sociologue Ares dit ceci et je cite: "II y a deux conditions necessaires a la survivance d'une langue et d'une cultur e.

La premiere c'est un envir onnement supp ortif, la seconde c'est un peuple." Fin de cita tion. Le poli ticologue Gill di t et je cite: "Si nce Ares'

article appeared, the supporting envir­ onment, though sti ll incomplete, has been consider a­ bly strenghtened. Today, it is more the people which is in doubt." Fin de cita tion. Monsieur le President, si je me suis arrete sur ces quelq ues moments sombres de notre passe c'est pour davantage soulign er qu'il y a eu des changements, des changements d'attitude nous ayant perm is de faire d'enormes progres et j'espere que nous verrons ces progres continuer.

Monsieur le President, je voudrais maintenant m'ar­ reter sur quelq ues poi nts qui touchent tous les elec­ teurs de Rad isson et du Man itoba de fa<;:on generale. D'ail leurs je veux profiter de cette occasion de les remercier de leur support au courant de toute l'an nee derniere. Nous avons mis en place des programmes visant la creation d'emplois et nous avons fait tout notre possi­ ble pour alle ger les pi res effets d'une recession plus longue et plus serieuse que prevue.

Le fi nancement supp lementair e fourni par la pro­ vince a perm is aux electeurs de Radi sson de benefic­ ier d'un baisse dans la taxe scolaire. Aussi de nombreux proprie tair es de maisons et commer9ants ont pu beneficier de subventions pour rabaisser les taux d'i nteret, le taux des interets I ors du renouvellement de leur hypotheque. Et nombreux locataires, souvent des famil ies mono-parentales, ont pu profiter de loyers plus raisonnables grace aux nou­ veaux reglements sur les layers.

L'augmentation des salair es minimu ms a permis aux plus pauvres de nos travaill eurs, qui avaient vu leurs re venus reels di minuer sous le regime prece­ dent, de maintenir leur pouvoir d'achat et par le fait meme contribuer au maintien d'une certa ine vital ite economique. Monsieur le President, le NPD est le seul mouve­ ment politique en Amerique du Nord a la recherche d'une di stri bution plus juste et mieux equilibr ee des biens du pouvoi r, des biens et du pouvoir .

C'est notre desir mutuel d'aug menter les revenus des plus pau­ vres et de cooperer au sein d'un systeme economique qui augmentera le pouvoir et le bien-etre de Manit o­ bains qui pendant trap longtemps ont ete relegues en marge de la societe. Pour y arriver, notre gouvernement croit qu'il est essentiel de recourir a une approche cooperative pour rechercher de novuelles solution s economiques. Cette

13 December, 1982 cooperation ne peut exister si un gouvernement si comme gouvernement nous enlevons aux travail leurs. hommes et femmes le droit de s'organiser et de nego­ cier de meill eures conditions de travail. Les multipl es rencontres qu'ont eues le Premier Min is-tre et les Min istres avec des groupes represent­ ant tous les secteurs de la societe. et tout recemment dans un sommmet economique, temoignent de notre attitude cooperative. Le Conference Board du Canada dans son dernier rapport indi que que l'activite economique au Ma ni­ toba en 19 82 a baisse moins que partout aill eurs au pays. du en bonne

partie a la bonne performance du secte ur agricole. Enfin ell e remarque que l'ec onomie du Man itoba relativement sai ne par rapport aux autres provinces a permis aux Man itobains de rester chez­ nous au li eu d'aller a la recherche d'em ploi ailleur s. Monsieur le President, tous les deputes d'en face, tous les deputes. vous n'avez pas compris mais peut­ etre que la traduction i;:a viendr a tout a l'heure. Mon­ sieur le Presid ent. tous les deputes d'en face n'ont pas manque de faire etat avec un grand eclat d'un deficit envis age qui se chiffrera a pres de 500 mill ions de dol lars.

Nul ne saurait louanger les merites de deficits en soi. mais tous les gouvernements. faisant face a une crise economique serieuse. semblent reconnaltre que des deficits sont inevitables. Oui de vous ne vit pas des deficits dans !'admin istration de ses affaires personnell es? Est-ce qu'on attend d'avo ir !'argent comptant pour se payer un toit sur la tete? Toute personne qui detient un emprunt ou un hypotheque que ce soit pour une voitu re ou pour une maison est dans une situation deficitaire.

II est un fait inden ia ble que nous avons peu de contr61e sur les marches int ernationaux. les poli ­ tiq ues d'i nteret eleve que nous avons sans cesse combattu et la baisse des revenus. Cependant, nous ne crayons null ement devoir imp oser des coupures restrictives severes dans les program mes essenti els. Des mesures du genre auraient un effet encore plus nefaste et paralyseraient nos efforts en vue d'une reprise economique. Monsieur le President. le gouvernement precedent en 19 79 a limi te ses augmentations budgetai res a 2.9% alors que !'inflation approchait 12 %.

Done ils ont effectue des coupures reelles de 9% aux depens de plus ieurs programmes sociaux gelant la construction d'h6p itaux. d'ha bitations pour personnes agees et creant du ch6mage. ll s ont compte uniquement sur !'in itia tive du secteur prive. Cette attitude de non­ confianc e a tout simp lement epeure les investisseurs. Comme resultat, des centaines de famil ies ont quitte la province et l'ec onomie du Mani toba a stagne. Pendant quatre ans. Monsieur Lyon et ses collegues ont parle de projets megas. Aujourd'hui ils nous accu­ sent de les avoir perdus volonta irement.

II faudrait etre na'if pour croire cela. Dans les conditions econo­ miques actuelles alors que les matieres premi eres ne trouvent pas d'acheteurs. et que le secteur industriel ne fonct ionne qu'a moins de 60% de sa capacite. les projets megas partout dans le monde sont tombes a l'eau. meme. meme en Al berta. C'est d'ai ll eurs en fonction d'un ch6mage trop eleve que I' Al berta s'est retire des negociations en vue de la creation d'un reseau hydro-electrique, preferant creer a des couts beaucoup superieurs son propre barrage 207 hydro-elect rique afi n de creer des emplois chez-eux.

Mais ii faut aussi ajouter que c'est la un projet a l'etude seulement au cout de 50 milli ons de doll ars. Oui. meme en Al berta. la situation du ch6mage est tres serieuse. Un reportage de la CBC la semaine derniere indi quait que cette province a presentement le plus haut taux de cri mes et 30% de plus de suici des que toute autre province. Pourtant ii y a la un gouver­ nement Conservateur. des revenus superieu rs au Man itoba. le fond d'Herit age, et oui ii y a aussi beau­ coup plus de desespoir. De plus la vii le de Calg ary est sur le poin t de creer 2000 nouveaux ch6meurs. parm i eux des polici ers.

Monsieur le President. regardons ce qui se passe partout autour de nous. plus particuli erement jetons un coup d'oeil sur les plus recentes donnees budge­ tair es des autres provinces. Toutes sont en situation defi citair es et ii en est de meme pour le gouvernement d'Ot tawa.

Ain si, Terre Neuve projetait, ainsi Terre Neuve projette un deficit pour l'an nee de 200 milli ons de dol lars, la Nouvelle �cosse 400 mill ions de dol lars, le Quebec plus de 3 mill iards, la Colombie qui avail prevu un deficit de 358 milli ons a maintenant revise et triple ses project ions pour un deficit de 1. 03 mill iards et la Saskatchewan qui projetait un surplus de 208 mi llions contemple mai ntenant un deficit de 220 milli ons. Aux t:tats-U nis. le Congres americ ain s'efforce par tous les moyens d'eviter que le deficit atte igne 200 mil lards pour cette annee et pour l'an nee prochai ne.

Pourtant, chez nos voisins americains on a deja impose de serieuses coupures dans les programmes sociaux. MR. SPEAKER: Order please. In accordance with our Rul e 35(3) , I am interrup ting the proceedings to put the question to the House.

The question before the House is the Amendme nt moved by the Honourable Leader of the Op position as follows: "But that this House regrets that the Government. by mislea ding the people of Man itoba by its lack of credibil ity and by its incompetence. all of which have contri buted to the suffering of our people brought about by the highest unemployment and worst eco­ nomic conditions si nce World War 11. has thereby lost the confidence of the citizens of Man itoba ." QUESTION put on the amendment and defeated: MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Turtle Mountain. MR. A. RANSOM: Yeas and Nays. Mr. Speaker. MR.

SPEAKER: Call in the members. Order pl ease. Order ple ase. The question before the House is the proposed amendment by the Honourable Leader of the Oppo si tion. Do you want it read again? It is moved in the amendment ... Order please .. "But that this House regrets that the Govern ment, by misl eading the people of Man itoba. by its lack of cred­ ibil ity and by its incompetence, all of which have con­ trib uted to the suffering of our people, brough t about by the highest unemployment and worst economic

Monday, 13 December, 1982 conditions si nce World War II, has thereby lost the confidence of the citizens of Manit oba." A STANDING VOTE was taken, the result being as follows: YEAS Messrs. Banman, Bl ake, Brown. Downey, Drie dger, Enns, Filmon, Gourlay, Graham, Mrs. Hammond, Messrs. Hyde, Joh nston, Kovnats, Lyon, Man ness, McKenzie, Mercier, Nordman, Mrs. Oleson. Messrs. Orchard, Ransom, Sherman, Steen. NAYS Messrs. Adam, Anstett, Ashton. Bucklaschuk, Car­ roll, Corrin, Cowan, Desjard ins, Mrs. Dodick, Mr. Doern, Ms. Dol in, Messrs. Evans, Eyler, Fox, Ha ra­ piak, Harper, Mrs. Hem phill, Messrs.

Lecuyer, Mac­ kling, Mali nowski, Pawley, Penner, Ms. Phill ip s, Messrs. Plohman, Santos, Schroeder, Scott, Mrs. Smith, Messrs. Storie, Uruski, Uskiw. MR. ACTING CLERK, G9rdon Mackintosh: Yeas, 23; Nays, 31 . MR. SPEAKER: The Nays have it and the amendment is accordingly lost. The question before the House is the proposed motion of the Honourable Mem ber for Riel. The Honourable Member for Lakeside. MR. H. ENNS: Mr.

Speaker, I have been in this House long enough now to realize that honourable members opposite do treat trad ition in this Chamber somewhat dif ferently than what some of us have been accus­ tomed to. For the second time in a row, Mr. Speaker, we have wit nessed the Leader of the Government ref­ using to lead his troops, to lead his Government in defendin g or in speaking to a resolution that plainly poi nts out the incompetence of the Government, the suffering that is caused to the people of Man itoba and the fact that they have lost confidence in the people of Man itoba. Now I say this, Mr .

Speaker, because although I'm the first to acknowledge . MR. SPEAKER: Order pl ease. I' m having some dif fi­ culty in hearing the honourable member. The Honourable Member for Lakeside. MR. H. ENNS: I say this, Mr. Speaker, because I'm the first to acknowledge that whil e I have not heard every speaker during the comments made on the amend­ ment, on my Leader's amendment to this Throne Speech, but those that I' ve heard have not touched on the amendment.

We've heard a somewhat amusing -depe ndin g on your point of view - di ssertation on horse races, and in a more serious vei n, the last speaker, the Honourable Member for Radisson, and understa ndably so, I certai nly don't fault him for it, took the major amount of his tim e in speak ing to this amendment, to acknowledge the French fact in this Chamber and treated us with worthwhile and interest­ ing his tory, but not addr ess ing the amencJmeni by and large. 208 Cert ainly most di sapp ointing was the performance of the Min ister of Finance who, a few eveni ngs ago, just simp ly ignor ed the subject matter of the amendment.

As I say once again, the Leader of the Government, on one of the critical debates in this Session chooses not to show any leade rship, chooses not to show any dir ection to his members of the House as to how they should vote on this amendment. Wel l, Mr . Speaker, so much for that trad ition. Mr. Speaker, I'm privi leged once agai n to be involved in a Throne Speech. I haven't attempted to count the numbers that I have been involv ed in, but they are a few.

Al low me to do the trad itional thing in acknowl­ edging and express ing my good wishes to those new officers of the Chamber in the person of the Honoura­ ble Mem ber for Flin Flon, the Honourable Men 1oer for Ri ver East, the Honourable Member for Burrows, the new Minis ters, the Honourable Member for Flin Flon and the Honourable Member for Dauphin. I know that they will bring their best abilit ies to the responsibili ­ ties that they have assumed. Mr .

Speaker, I would lik e to begin with the Throne Speech, the subject matter of our debate and begin on a positive note by agreeing with one aspect of the Throne Sp eech. It comes early in the Speech when it acknowledges that, and I quote from the Throne Speech in the second paragraph, "The economic recession under way when my Government assumed office .. " Mr .

Sp eaker, that's about the first time I' ve seen it acknowledged, that I've seen it in writing, that honourable members opposite when they were si tti ng here, knew that there was a recession under way and it is now confi rmed in writ ing in the Throne Speech and I have to belie ve what's written in Throne Speeches. Mr. Sp eaker, notwithsta ndin g - and you will also recall - despite the fact that under our administration, the Quarterly Repor ts, Financial Reports, came as called for. The project ions that were made were rea­ sonably or certa inly within a very small limi tati on, accurate.

I belie ve the last Minis ter of Financ e of the Progressive Conservative adminis tration forecast a deficit of some $253 milli on when he was responsible for doing those kinds of things and the actual deficit came in at $251 milli on. Bad enough, but the point that I'm making is there was no need for surprise, the mock surpri se that the now Premier exp ressed when he assumed office a few weeks after office and looked and said, "My goodness, what have I been left?

What kind of economic mess have I been left?" When he acknowledges it this week, this Session in the Throne Speech by putting it in the Throne Speech, "The eco­ nomic recession under way when my Gove rnment assumed office," but, Mr. Speaker, far more serious is the fact that they obviousl y knew the kind of situation that the province and the peopl e of Manit oba faced but that, Mr. Speaker, did not prevent them from, again, that famous document in making those kind of promises. I'm not going to repeat those promises, Mr .

Speaker, except to tell you it is all the more trag ic that thi s Government knew of the economic circumstances facing this prov ince and the present Premier knew the facts of li fe and then put his sig nature to tt1is ki nd of document. Mr. Sp eaker, I suggest to you that is a great

13 December, 1982 part of the reason why some of the bitterness in this House, why some of the acrimony in this House and it's because of the manner and way in which this Government got to office. Mr. Speaker, I'm going to try to make part of that speech, Sir, that you tried to prevent me from making when I stood up to my rights as a member at the last closing days of the last Session when I rose to speak on a thir d reading of a bill because I do have some election promis es made and election promises kept. I can remember when Duff Roblin promis ed certain things and how he got into office.

Among the major features of course - by the way my present leader was very much a part of that progressive team that is often referred to by members opposite when they refer to the Roblin adminis trat ion - but just a few thin gs, I'll just highli ght them, a few thin gs. The then govern­ ment, the D.L. Campb ell government, sat on a flood study report that would have, did in fact, call for mas­ sive expen di ture of funds to al leviate flood ing in the Cit y of Winnip eg. One of the promis es that Duff Rob­ lin made was he would do something about it and he did.

One of the promis es that he made was that he would do somethin g about the education system and he did. Mr. Speaker, I can recall going back a few years later on, being part of the Weir admin istration and there are mem bers in this House that remember that election; there are members in this House that came in with the election. I remember the election promises that Mr . Weir made and they were not promises, they were then concerns about the dir ection that public spe nding was getting themselves into.

You remember the ads, "Keep A Lid On Spend ing." Remember Walter Weir's heavy thumb on education costs because, after all, I was part of the party that introduced the 5 percent sales tax which all New Democrats voted agai nst.

They li ke to talk about bei ng prepared to accept the responsibili ty for taxing people if you're going to pro­ vi de services, but politically they all voted agains t it but it was the Conservative Party that imposed the 5 percent sales tax after they brought Man itoba into the 20th century in educat ion, in health, in roads and in flood protect ion for the greater part of the Prov ince of Man itoba. Mr. Speaker, it was understandable that Walter Weir said, "We will close down, we will limi t the spending." That was our promis e in 19 69, the people di dn't buy it and they threw us out of office.

I also remember, to giv e credit where credit is due, some of the promises that the New Democrats then made, Mr . Sch reyer and his people then made. They said, among other thi ngs, that they would do away with premium s on Med icare, which we had just intr oduced in the midst of that elect ion by the way. They also said, and we fought it, that if elected they would introduce government automobile insurance. Those were the kind of prom­ ises they made and, Mr . Speaker, by and large they carried out those promises. In 19 77, another election, another leader and my leader and my party made certain promises.

We said that we would try to reduce the size of government and is there anyone here to deny that we di dn't accompli sh that? Is there anybody here who will deny that? We said, Mr. Speaker, on such li ttle things that we would sell Crown land to farmers. Is there anybody here, least of all the Minis ter of Agricu ltur e, that says we di dn't do that? There was a recognition, Mr . Sp eaker, and that was our basic promise because my leader happened to have been about two years ahead of his time, recognition of where public spend ing was going, that there was a need to tig hten our belts.

For that we earned the accolades of a tig ht-fisted, restraint­ minded government. Is there anybody in this Chamber suggesting that we did otherwise? Anybody? Mr . Speaker, in other words the point I'm trying to make is we carried out the election promises. Mr. Sp eaker, it's in that context that you have to look at the promis es that Mr. Pawley and the present Government made when they said, "Nobody is going to lose thei r jobs and if there are going to be layoffs they will have to give 12 weeks notice with pay." They said that the Li mestone plant would be buil t right now. Mr.

Sp eaker, we made promis es in the 19 81 election as well. We said that if we can get the Western Power Grid going and if we can get the Al can project going then thousands of people will be emplo yed. -(Int er­ jection)- Well obviously we couldn' t say anything else. We di dn' t have the deals. That's rig ht; we left them for you to comp lete. You fumbled them but the truth of the matter is a small percentage of the people di dn't believe us, about 3 percent . MR. SPEAKER: Order ple ase. MR. H. ENNS: That is not what you promised.

With an anti pathy towards some of these projects you had the gall to say that you can turn around the harsh eco­ nomic cir cumstances. Mr . Speaker, President Reagan had been elected by that time. There is no suggestion that Reagan had any influence on these poli tics, not the kind of nonsense that we're hearing now. Margaret Thatcher had been around. That di dn't stop you from saying that you and you alone can change the harsh economic ci rcumstances. Mr .

Speaker, that's about the same kind of nonsense that their national leader is st ill spouting and spoke so recently about in his speech in Hamil ton this October on Labour Day. Mr. Speaker, that's all I want to say about that because I do want to underl ine the fact that is the basic underlying reason for some of the acri mony in · this House. 209 Mr . Speaker, I left out one elect ion of course, 19 73. The 19 73 election is an election that I am not particu­ larly proud about having been part of. It was, by all description in the five elect ions that I have

part ici­ pated in, in being one of the most vicious, racist elec­ tions that we have seen in modern Man itoba. It was an election where the most brill iant people on the part of the government, the Minis ter of Fina nce, the Minis ter of Natu ral Resources, the Min ister of Health and Edu­ cat ion, were kept in their ghetto in Winnip eg and told not to be seen in the province too much because they belong to the wrong ethnic group.

Onl y ethnic people of the right order were al lowed to travel through the provinc e, so they could point out that the leaders of the Cons ervative Party and of the Li beral Party had leaders of that particular ethnic group. That's the kind of election we ran in 19 73. Mr. Speaker, when the honourable members talk and try to intr oduce, and let me say -(l nterjection)­ no, no. I was sti ll in New York. When the honourable

Monday, 13 December, 1982 members want to talk and they want to bring - and I want to warn you, let's not talk this kind of nonsense that you have been talking about a li ttle whil e. You can attri bute many things to my leader. You can call him a feisty leader; you can call him vitriolic from time to tim e, but one thing you cannot say is second guess him about his command of the Queen's English. Mr .

Speaker, when he refers to the word "background," just let me read you what at least Webster talks about what "background" means: "the scenery or ground behind something, the part of a pain ti!1g representing that li es behind objects, the foreground," but more impor tant, "i nformation essential to the understand­ ing of a problem or situa tion, the total of a person's experience, knowledge, education." It goes on to other thin gs lik e, "intrusive sounds that inter fere with received or recorded electr onic sig nals," obviously more modern annotations of that word "background." But for honourable members opposite, with the kind of immedia te history that they have, to talk about that kind of nonsense, you pla y a very dangerous game.

Let's not rehash the kind of comments that were made by a Leader of the New Democratic Party that tal ked about gold dust winds, that tal ked about not wanting to be represented by people living south of the river - that's what was said - that talked about shyster lawyers for being Leaders of Li beral Parties and Conservative Parties. In this Chamber, we heard about tal king about members that represent the golden ghetto. Do we want to have that kind of nonsense in this Chamber? Then, Mr. Speaker, I appeal to you to exercise your stewardship in this Chamber and keep a rein on this Chamber. No, Mr .

Speaker, it is just there are not that many members here that recall and li ved through that par­ ticular experience. I will tell you, Mr. Speaker, it was not a particularly pleasant election in 19 73 to have that kind of a background operating on the scenes and it was fed right from this Chamber, right from the leader, right from the Premier of the Province. Mr. Speaker, if honourable members opposite think that they're going to try to do that to my present leader for his use of the word "background," they' re simpl y not going to get away with it, and there should be an apology. Mr.

Sp eaker, one of the problems, and that is the other part of the Throne Sp eech that I would lik e to make reference to, and it's a phrase, Sir , that we hear quite often during these time s. That is, people talk in the Throne Speech - and forgive me, I don't have the

section before me, but the Throne Speech refers to it ­ but we hear it so often. We hear, "when the recovery comes." People talk about when the recovery will come. Wel l, Mr . Speaker, fi rst of all, I remind you that you hear it most often from NDP or Li beral poli ticans, politi cal science professors or social workers, not too often from business leaders and that's what worries me.

That truly worries me, because there is this kind of automatic assumption that when the recovery comes, we'll all jump back on the gravy train, good time s will be here again and we can all barrel along with 12 , 15 , 20 percent increases in productivity. Mr. Speaker, al low me to enligh ten you and enlighten the honourable members opposite on some harsh facts of li fe. Noth ing in this Throne Speech is giving any dir ection at all that this province at least will be part of Canada and that it's belatedly trying to put 210 itself in position to take advantage of when the recov­ ery comes.

Is there anything in this Throne Speech that acknowledges some recognition of the problem facing Canada in terms of wage costs? Is there some recognition, some even tacit acknowledgement, about the 6 and 5 program? Mr. Speaker, that's a program that is being endorsed by the Federal Government, by their Li beral friends in Ottawa. You know, it wasn't that many years ago that they could supp ort their Li beral friend s in Ottawa when it came to removing a Conservative administration that threatened the nation with an 18 cent a gallon increase in their energy costs.

I don't know where we're at now, but I know that we have far surpassed that. Mr . Speaker, okay, I accept the fact that this admi n­ istration doesn't have to ape or copy everything that Ottawa does, but that's the di sturbing part of this Throne Sp eech. The Throne Sp eech wrings its hands; it shows meaningful concern, to use the Premi er's favourit e phr ase, but it shows no di rect ion, no acknowledgement that: (

a) we have to at least address ourselves to some extent to the problem here in Ma nit oba in terms of gett ing our own house in order; that we have to have some responsibili ty as part of the greater Canadian effort in meeting these problems, because, Mr. Speaker, what worries me most is that a recovery will come - and when I speak of recovery, let's acknowledge that the question is, will the recov­ ery come with our major trad ing partner, the United States. We have been accustomed to assuming that we will automatically pi ggyback on the rebound of the recovery when it happens to our major trad ing partner.

Now, how sure are we that that's going to happen to us this time around, Mr . Speaker? There are very important di scussions involving world trade right now going on in Europe, the GATT di scussions that are taking pla ce right now, particu­ larly in the field of agricu lture, and the Americans are getting very di sturbed about some of the actions that the European common market is taking. I must tell you, the pos sibil ity of Canada being hurt in its most vulne rable area, in the field of agricu lture. are real and very serious.

I am not so sure that we are going to be in a position to take advantage of that recovery when it comes. I have to tell the Honourable Member for Thompson, Man itobans and Canadi ans don' t particu­ larly need the nickel that is mined in Thompson. We never have. There is enough nic kel for domestic use coming out of Sudbury, more than we'll ever use out of Sudbury. So, Mr . Sp eaker, to close our eyes, to assume that we will just sim ply l1ave to you know, we can mine and prod uce the stuff at any cost without respect to our competitive position is the kind of, you know.

Al ice in Wonderland world that my friends op posite li ve in. MR. SPEAKER: Order please. Order please. We have reached the hour of adjournment. When we next reach this resolution, the honourable member will have 19 minutes remaining. The House is accordingly adjourned and will stand adjourned until 2:00 p.m. tomorrow (Tuesday).