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May 14, 2019

42nd Parliament, 1st Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcript 2019-May-14 (PDF)

L106 - Tue 14 May 2019 / Mar 14 mai 2019

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L’ONTARIO

Tuesday 14 May 2019 Mardi 14 mai 2019

Orders of the Day

Time allocation

Introduction of Visitors

Anniversary of the Mulivaikal massacre

Oral Questions

Public health

Education funding

Government accountability

Taxation

Fire in Big Trout Lake

Housing

Occupational health and safety

Government policies

Transportation infrastructure

Poverty

Women’s shelters

Violence against women

Anti-racism activities

Rural economic development

Student assistance

Notice of dissatisfaction

Adjournment debate

Visitor

Introduction of Visitors

Members’ Statements

Education funding

Correctional officers

Member’s conduct

Brooklin Spring Fair

Abortion

La francophonie

Provincial debt

Employment standards

Doors Open Richmond Hill

Anaphylaxis

Reports by Committees

Standing Committee on Finance and Economic Affairs

Standing Committee on Government Agencies

Statements by the Ministry and Responses

Police Week

Child and Youth in Care Day

Police Week

Children and Youth in Care Day

Police Week

Children and Youth in Care Day / Jour des enfants et des jeunes pris en charge

Petitions

Traffic control

Library services

Long-term care

Injured workers

Autism treatment

Tuition

Education funding

Long-term care

Emergency services

Autism treatment

Tuition

Education funding

Long-term care

Orders of the Day

More Homes, More Choice Act, 2019 / Loi de 2019 pour plus de logements et plus de choix

Adjournment debate

More Homes, More Choice Act, 2019 / Loi de 2019 pour plus de logements et plus de choix

Adjournment Debate

Climate change

Land use planning

The House met at 0900.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Let us pray.

Prayers.

Orders of the Day

Time allocation

Hon. Ernie Hardeman: I move that, pursuant to standing order 47 and notwithstanding any other standing order or special order of the House relating to Bill 107,

An Act to amend the Highway Traffic Act and various other statutes in respect of transportation-related matters, when the bill is next called as a government order, the Speaker shall put every question necessary to dispose of the second reading stage of the bill without further debate or amendment; and

That at such time the bill shall be ordered referred to the Standing Committee on General Government; and

That the Standing Committee on General Government be authorized to meet on Tuesday, May 21, 2019, and Wednesday, May 22, 2019, from 9 a.m. to 11:30 a.m. and 1 p.m. to 5 p.m. for public hearings on the bill; and

That the Clerk of the Committee, in consultation with the committee Chair, be authorized to arrange the following with regard to Bill 107:

—That the deadline for requests to appear be 5 p.m. on Thursday, May 16, 2019; and

—That the Clerk of the Committee provide a list of all interested presenters to each member of the subcommittee and their designate following the deadline for requests to appear by 6:30 p.m. on Thursday, May 16, 2019; and

—That each member of the subcommittee or their designate provide the Clerk of the Committee with a prioritized list of presenters to be scheduled, chosen from the list of all interested presenters received by the Clerk, by 9 a.m. on Friday, May 17, 2019; and

—That each witness will receive up to six minutes for their presentation followed by 14 minutes for questioning, with two minutes allotted to the independent Green member and 12 minutes divided equally amongst the recognized parties for questioning; and

That the deadline for filing written submissions be 6 p.m. on Thursday, May 23, 2019; and

That the deadline for filing amendments to the bill with the Clerk of the Committee shall be 10 a.m. on Friday, May 24, 2019; and

That the Standing Committee on General Government shall be authorized to meet on Monday, May 27, 2019, from 9 a.m. to 10:15 a.m. and 2 p.m. to 8 p.m., and Tuesday, May 28, 2019, from 9 a.m. to 10:15 a.m. and from 2 p.m. to 8 p.m. for clause-by-clause consideration of the bill; and

That on Tuesday, May 28, 2019, at 4 p.m., those amendments which have not yet been moved shall be deemed to have been moved, and the Chair of the committee shall interrupt the proceedings and shall, without further debate or amendment, put every question necessary to dispose of all remaining sections of the bill and any amendments thereto. At this time, the Chair shall allow one 20-minute waiting period pursuant to standing order 129(a); and

That the committee shall report the bill to the House no later than Wednesday, May 29, 2019. In the event that the committee fails to report the bill on that day, the bill shall be deemed to be passed by the committee and shall be deemed to be reported to and received by the House; and

That upon receiving the report of the Standing Committee on General Government, the Speaker shall put the question for adoption of the report forthwith, and at such time the bill shall be ordered for third reading, which order may be called that same day; and

That notwithstanding standing order 81(c), the bill may be called for third reading more than once in the same sessional day; and

That in the event of any division relating to any proceedings on the bill, the division bell shall be limited to 20 minutes.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Percy Hatfield): The minister has moved government notice of motion number 61. Does the minister wish to speak to the bill?

Hon. Ernie Hardeman: No.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Percy Hatfield): No? Further debate? Over here after over there, because the minister sat down. I am looking over there to see if they want—

Interjection.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Percy Hatfield): Thank you for the guidance. No one is speaking there. Then I shall go to the member from Kitchener–Conestoga.

Mr. Mike Harris: I’m happy to rise today in the Legislature to debate motion 61, the time allocation on Bill 107, but before we do that, I would like to move an amendment to the bill, Mr. Speaker.

I move that the following be inserted after the 10th paragraph: “That when the order for third reading of this bill is called, three hours of debate shall be allotted to the third reading stage of the bill with one hour and 15 minutes allotted to the government, one hour and 15 minutes allotted to Her Majesty’s loyal opposition, 20 minutes to the independent Liberal members, and 10 minutes allotted to the independent Green member.”

Mr. Speaker, both the bill in question and the motion on the floor—

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Percy Hatfield): Excuse me. Thank you. We’ll get back to you in a moment. I know you’re in a hurry this morning. We do have some rules we do have to follow.

The member for Kitchener–Conestoga has moved that the following be inserted after the 10th paragraph: “That when the order for third reading of the bill is called, three hours of debate shall be allotted to the third reading stage of the bill with one hour and 15 minutes allotted to the government, one hour and 15 minutes allotted to Her Majesty’s loyal opposition, 20 minutes to the independent Liberal members, and 10 minutes allotted to the independent Green member; and”

Is that it? All right.

I’ll recognize the member for Kitchener–Conestoga to speak to the amendment.

Mr. Mike Harris: To the amendment or the motion, Mr. Speaker?

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Percy Hatfield): The amendment.

Mr. Mike Harris: No comment on the amendment, sir. Thank you.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Percy Hatfield): You’re not going to speak to the amendment?

Mr. Mike Harris: Not to the amendment.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Percy Hatfield): Further debate?

Ms. Peggy Sattler: I rise today to speak on behalf of the people I represent in London West with regard to the amendment to the time allocation motion to Bill 107, the Getting Ontario Moving Act.

Speaker, this is an important debate that we are having. It is important to get Ontario moving. It is a concern that this government has decided to move time allocation on this act, because the people I represent in London have some real issues with the availability of transit, both transit locally and also the transportation network that London firms need to be competitive and to get products to market in Toronto, and to link the workforce that is available in Toronto, that talent pipeline between Toronto, London, Windsor and the whole 401 corridor.

Unfortunately, although this bill that the government wants to time-allocate is called the Getting Ontario Moving Act, it really only refers to getting Toronto moving. Now, I don’t want to deny that there is a concern about getting Toronto moving. Toronto’s transit system is critical to the economic health of our province. We need to have economic prosperity in the city of Toronto to keep our entire provincial economy healthy. However, this bill could have done so much more. It could have really addressed some of the pressing transit issues, the transportation issues, that are relevant to so many people in this province, including Londoners.

One of the issues that was a big disappointment to my community was the decision to cancel the planned increase in the gas tax. That decision was made as part of the provincial budget, but of course it is having lasting ripple effects for transit authorities in many communities across this province, including the London Transit Commission. The London Transit Commission was counting on that gas tax increase. They were counting on those funds being available so that they could improve transit networks in our city.

The gas tax revenues are critical for transit systems like the LTC not just to run transit operations, but also for capital improvements. The London Transit Commission was counting on being able to access those gas tax revenues to do a detailed assessment on how they could improve transit operations in the city.

London has one of the lowest proportions of workforce participation in the province. Only about three quarters of people of prime working age in my community are actually working. What I hear from many people in my community is that they can’t get to where the jobs are. There are new industries that are growing, developing, in some of the areas south of the 401, which you, Speaker, will be well familiar with as you travel past London to Toronto. There are firms that are growing and investing in the London area, but they can’t get the workforce out to them because the London Transit Commission isn’t able to service those areas.

Transit underpins the ability of cities like London to be able to effectively grow businesses and to ensure that people can get to those jobs that are created, when they’re created. But now, without access to those gas tax revenues, the London Transit Commission has had to make some decisions about which planned improvements they’re going to have to cancel. They will have to cancel planned improvements because of the loss of these revenues.

The other concern, of course, related to transportation and to getting Ontario moving, giving London’s economy the boost that it needs, is related to high-speed rail. Of course, in the communities surrounding London there was a lot of concern about this shiny object that the Liberals held out related to high-speed rail, about the lack of long-term planning that was involved in the Liberal proposal. This government has decided to cancel that project. They have pretty much flat-out said that it’s not going ahead.

This is a big disappointment to many businesses in London, particularly the tech businesses, because they hear over and over again when they’re trying to attract talent—and I have to say, Speaker, that tech jobs are one of the areas in London where we have hundreds more vacancies than we have applicants to fill those vacancies. London tech firms are looking to recruit talent from around not just the province but around the country and even internationally. But people are telling these tech firms that they don’t want to move to London because the transit service isn’t good enough.

That’s not just local transit service, but it’s also the linked network that would enable people to move quickly and efficiently from London to other communities—like Toronto, of course. So it’s a disappointment to companies in London that this bill doesn’t address some of the transportation needs of other communities across the province.

I had the privilege, Speaker, of listening to my colleague the Ontario NDP transportation critic talk about this bill when it was first debated in this Legislature for second reading. One of the points that she really emphasized was about the lack of integrated thinking that is represented in this bill. By hiving off or uploading Toronto’s transit system, the government is missing the opportunity to develop a truly integrated transportation network, and that is certainly a concern that we share in London. We believe that integrated transit is what we need.

Not only do we need a way to link our community of London to the rest of the province—Toronto in particular—but we also need a way to link people who live in the London area to the city of London.

London is a health care hub for southwestern Ontario. Many people rely on the expertise of our health care facilities in London to get the specialized health care services that they need, but they can’t get to London. They can’t get to London because, even in areas as close to London as St. Thomas, there is a real lack of transit options. So we need to ensure that transportation planning looks at the big picture, that it looks at not only how we link London to Toronto but how we ensure that we have the ridership who are able to get into London and then access Toronto.

So this is one of the big concerns about this bill: that it does not look at how to strengthen that integration. In fact, it undermines that integration. It starts to undo some of the work that has already been under way on building an integrated transit system in Toronto.

We believe that the people of Toronto deserve an integrated transit system, just as the people of London deserve an integrated transit system. So, Speaker, as I said, I think that it would be of value for this government to hear from MPPs across this province, MPPs who don’t live in the GTHA, who live in some of the other regions of the province, regions like London that are underserved in terms of transportation options and who would like to have a meaningful discussion with this government about how to get our region moving.

We know that the economic success of all regions in Ontario is how we build a successful provincial economy. Certainly we need to keep Toronto’s economic growth strong and healthy, but we can’t only rely on Toronto for the well-being of our province. People in communities like London, like Windsor, like Kingston and like Ottawa also deserve an economy and a transit system that enable them to grow businesses and to ensure that the talent is there for the workforce that is going to support those businesses.

With that, Speaker, I will once again—

Interjection.

Ms. Peggy Sattler: Oh, keep going? Okay—I will once again reiterate the concern that we have with time-allocating this bill: As with any time allocation motion, it’s a missed opportunity. It’s a missed opportunity for this government to hear from MPPs who represent every corner of this province, who represent every region of this province, who might have some good ideas—although this government has shown that it’s not particularly interested in good ideas. This government believes that it knows best, and that whatever legislation it brings in is the way it’s going to be.

Not only are they not interested in hearing from MPPs in this place who bring the concerns and the priorities of the ideas of the people we represent, but they’re also not interested in hearing from the people of this province. We’ve seen over and over, and again with this time allocation motion, that the government wants to limit opportunities for public participation. They want to close their ears to any evidence, for goodness’ sake.

They’re not interested in evidence or research that might be brought to the table if they actually allowed meaningful input in a consultation process, if they actually allowed sufficient time for all the people who would like to weigh in on government legislation that has been brought forward.

But no, this government is not interested in hearing from MPPs. They’re not interested in hearing from the citizens of Ontario. They’re not interested in hearing from some of the experts and the stakeholder organizations that are going to be directly affected by the decisions that are made. They really have a “my way or the highway” point of view on the legislation that they introduce.

Speaking of highways, isn’t it interesting, the investment that this government wants to make on expanding highway infrastructure, instead of looking deep and hard at the public transportation needs of people in this province? Yes, we need to relieve congestion on the 401, but we could do that by investing in public transportation, by investing in an integrated transit network. Instead, there are real concerns that this bill, with the upload of the TTC, will just cause years of more delays. It will delay even further the development of that integrated transportation network that is needed in this province.

It will cause yet more frustration as the province has to go back to square one in terms of the planning that is being done.

Speaker, we believe, New Democrats believe, that we should be investing in improving transit now. We shouldn’t be putting out bills like this that simply don’t move us ahead. They don’t advance us collectively on the project that we should be engaged in of getting Ontario moving, of ensuring that all regions in this province are able to benefit from integrated transit systems and a transportation network that actually serves all the citizens in the province. We believe that we should not be delaying projects like the expansion of the TTC by starting over from scratch.

That’s why we will be opposing the time allocation motion, regardless of the amendment that is being proposed. We think that there is value in hearing from all members in this place, in hearing from members who represent diverse communities of this province, and there is value in sharing those ideas so that the government can take those things into account and move forward in a way that’s going to benefit all Ontarians in this province.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Percy Hatfield): Point of order?

Mr. Lorne Coe: Point of order, Speaker.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Percy Hatfield): I recognize the member from Whitby on a point of order.

Mr. Lorne Coe: Thank you, Speaker. I seek unanimous consent to allow the member for Kitchener–Conestoga to speak a second time to the amendment to government notice of motion 61.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Percy Hatfield): The member from Whitby is seeking unanimous consent to have the member from Kitchener–Conestoga speak a second time to this motion. All those in favour? All those agreed? Then it’s agreed. Nobody said no.

I return now to the member for Kitchener–Conestoga.

Mr. Mike Harris: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank you, colleagues, for allowing me to take

part in debate today. I’m happy to rise in the Legislature to debate motion 61 on the time allocation of Bill 107, the Getting Ontario Moving Act, introduced by the Minister of Transportation.

Both the bill in question and the motion on the floor are demonstrations of why our government was elected. Bill 107 is what the people of Ontario need right now, and there is no time to waste. The package of reforms that this legislation delivers will complement the rest of the policies that our government has delivered so far in getting Ontario back on track by making our roads, highways and transit run smoothly and efficiently.

It is the broad scope of this bill that makes a real transformational impact. When it comes to safe driving, it doesn’t just look at how we can change the rules of the road, but also at how we can improve the processes by which we train our future drivers. We are going to make sure that we hold our instructors to the highest standards possible, so that they may lead in their instruction by example.

One of the ways that our government is doing this is by introducing a new offence for any driving instructor who violates a zero blood alcohol or drug presence requirement. Not only will this reaffirm, to those going through the process, the standards which they are to uphold on the road, but it will also make learning to drive safer.

We are working to make driving safer while not infringing on the ability of our hard-working Ontarians to get where they need to go. I think we’ve all seen the problems that excessively slow drivers on the highways can pose for traffic and public safety. Traffic on our main arteries and highways at rush hour puts the people of Toronto and the GTA in nothing less than positions of gridlock. It is our responsibility as a government to try to provide practical solutions to mitigate undue congestion. When some drive below the speed limit in the left-hand lane, it makes traffic slower and less safe.

That is why, as part of Bill 107, we are introducing tougher penalties for driving slowly in the left-hand lane.

When we talk about improving the flow of traffic, it is important to highlight all the infrastructural and transit investments that our government has committed to.

I must commend the Minister of Transportation for a recent spring announcement that provided $1.3 billion—with a B, Mr. Speaker—in investment to boost highway infrastructure across the province.

In my riding, this funding is being used to provide needed upgrades to Highway 7 between Kitchener and Guelph and the Highway 7/8 interchange around Trussler Road. This is above and beyond the outstanding work with Metrolinx to bring two-way, all-day GO train service closer to reality and reverse 15 years of inaction from the Liberal government.

I must also commend the Minister of Infrastructure, the member for Lambton–Kent–Middlesex, for recently nominating, through the rural and northern stream of the Investing in Canada Infrastructure Program, the Glasgow Street South rehabilitation project: $1.2225 million in funding to the township of Woolwich to rebuild this bridge. This will ensure that a vital link between rural and urban Waterloo region is protected for years to come.

Moreover, the ministry has approved a project extension for the Holland Mills Road bridge rehabilitation in the township of Wilmot, which will ensure that this bridge is designed and built to modern standards.

The investment that our government is making will have a massive impact on my riding and the rest of Ontario, Mr. Speaker.

On the transit file, our government’s commitments are just as impressive. We are uploading Toronto’s subway system and making record investments. Our government announced a $28.5-billion expansion to Ontario’s transit network, the largest investment build in Ontario’s history. Much of this will go not only towards the expansion of existing lines but also towards the construction of the new Ontario Line.

Whether you are a professional commuting from one end of the city to the other or a constituent in my riding coming into the city on the Kitchener GO line, you will stand to benefit greatly from the action that our government is taking to revitalize Toronto’s subway lines. Making real progress on these fronts is one of the most impactful ways that we are going to make Toronto and the GTA, and Ontario in general, a more attractive and feasible destination for business.

The legislation on the floor today is talking about making our roads safer and less congested. It is a win for working families and the businesses they rely on. Bill 107 is not just about keeping our roads safe for our drivers on their way to and from work, but also about keeping our students safe. Our government has not sat still when it comes to keeping our kids safe both in and out of the classroom, and this bill reaffirms that. For starters, our government has proposed new regulations allowing evidence from stop-arm cameras on school buses to stand alone in court.

I have to thank the member for Chatham-Kent–Leamington, who has been a huge proponent of this for many, many years now. I’m glad that his work has made it into government policy, because this is a fantastic addition to this bill.

Allow me to provide a little more insight on this provision, Mr. Speaker. Shortly after being elected, I took a couple of meetings with the Student Transportation Services of Waterloo Region to understand what I could do as a member of the governing party, and a parent of five young children under 13, to promote student safety. Our discussion on school bus safety and the current level of infractions left me absolutely stunned by the extent of the problem and the inaction of the previous government.

They showed me the results of a one-month pilot they completed in 2016, where they placed stop-arm cameras on 350, or 20%, of school buses in Waterloo region. What happened, Mr. Speaker? Shockingly, they recorded 1.5 infractions per bus per week—over 500 infractions, when you totalled them up, per week.

Benoit Bourgault, the general manager of Student Transportation Services of Waterloo Region, told me that what was needed to counter this was photo evidence from these cameras being admissible evidence in court without a witness. I think that when we actually look at this footage—I’m sure most of us in the House have had a chance to see a blow-by by a car or other vehicle—it’s pretty telling.

Mr. Speaker, we are a government that listens. We are protecting our children by giving municipalities the tools they need to target drivers who blow by school buses and threaten the safety of children crossing roads on their way home from school or getting to school in the mornings. I entered politics to create a better world for my children and our future generations, and we need to punish those who put that future at risk.

All of our roadside workers are vital to the integrity of our transportation system, and we need to make sure we are doing what we need to do in order to keep them safe on the job as well, so they can turn all of their attention towards their work and make sure that they make it home safely at the end of the day. That is why we are strengthening laws that protect front-line roadside workers from careless drivers. It is a two-way street: Those who use our roads must be ever cognizant of those who spend their days making sure that our roads are open for that use.

Our government is firing on all fronts to make our economy function more effectively, and all of the changes that we are making with Bill 107 are bringing us closer to where we need to go with that. One of the important features of this package that our government has brought forward is the broad strokes that it takes. We are not just looking at road construction or transit expansion but also at modernization. In our government’s recent news release on Bill 107 reforms, it was also announced that we will be launching a new digital dealer registration pilot program.

This will be an expansive pilot that will allow auto dealers to register vehicles sold at their dealerships in-house. Currently, vehicle dealers across the province must register and license newly purchased vehicles off-site, costing businesses and consumers time and money.

Advancing key provisions of my private member’s bill, Bill 50, this pilot will save Ontarians and businesses time and money, and will improve the customer experience at dealerships by allowing participating dealerships to apply for permits, plates and validation stickers online.

Mr. Speaker, this program will launch in spring 2020 and will be developed through a six-month, province-wide consultation in close partnership with the ServiceOntario network providers as well as car dealerships and rental car and fleet organizations. We need to harness the technology of today in a way that benefits all those who use and sustain our transportation infrastructure. That is what this kind of modernization accomplishes. As per its name, the Getting Ontario Moving Act is all about making the common-sense reforms that will allow Ontario’s economy to function more effectively for years to come.

Under the positive direction of this government, there is much development on the horizon for this province, provided we continue to make the adjustments that need to be made in order to facilitate this development. We won the last election with a strong majority and entered office with a very clear mandate. The people of Ontario expect us to make this a more affordable and safer place to live and raise a family. They expect us to make Ontario a more attractive place to create, attract and grow business. We know how to get there, and Bill 107 helps us achieve that.

With our mandate and a clear sense of direction, I see no reason to hesitate. The people of this province want better roads, they want better transit and they want better services. So I fully support the time allocation motion that is on the floor this morning. I thank my colleagues for allowing me to speak to this.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Percy Hatfield): Further debate?

Mr. Gilles Bisson: It’s like every single bill that the government has brought into this House that is a government bill—we’re not talking private members’ motions or private bills on behalf of various corporations that need to have their titles changed etc.—is done by way of time allocation.

It is really a sad, sad day for democracy when we find ourselves, over and over again, in a situation where the government doesn’t trust its own members, let alone the members of the opposition, to be able to have a process by which you have reasonable debate in the House.

And “reasonable” doesn’t mean to say that a bill has to stay here and be spoken to ad infinitum in second reading, but a reasonable amount of time in order to make sure that a bill is referred to committee without condition, to allow the committee to do the work that it has to do, which is, I think, the cornerstone of what our democracy is all about, and that is to consult the people in and across Ontario, depending on the subject.

There are bills where, at times, it’s quite in order just to have the committee meetings here in Toronto. If the bill just affects the city of Toronto or the GTA, it probably makes some sense to do that here. But in a lot of cases, bills affect the four corners of this province. The government should trust itself and its legislation enough to be able to put it into committee and to travel it somewhat so that the people of Ontario can have their say.

There is, as we all know, creeping through all of the democratic world, be it Europe or Canada or other parts of this world, a real disdain and a real distrust of the political process and elected officials. That doesn’t happen without reason. I think this type of thing leads to that, when governments say, “We’re just going to rule by fiat”—called time allocation—“and we’re going to do what we want, how we want, when we want, and you can’t say anything about it, Mr. and Mrs. Ontario.” I think that is really a disservice to the people of this province.

The government stands in this House and is proud of the legislation that it has put forward. For example, with this particular bill in regard to transportation, I’ve heard member after member on the government side get up and talk about why they’re proud of this particular legislation and why they think it’s a great idea. Well, they should have the courage of their conviction and they should be willing to take the bill out into committee and let the people of Ontario look at the bill and comment to the government as to what this bill is really about.

Certainly there are parts of this bill that the people would be supportive of, but there are other parts of the bill, and we’ve heard that in the debates up to now, that people are not happy with and feel not only conflicted but downright upset with the government as to what it’s doing. That was for the debate at second reading; this is the debate on the amendment to the time allocation motion and I’ll confine my comments to that.

When you don’t consult the public, you’re saying they don’t matter. That’s essentially what we’re saying here. We put ourselves in a position where you are building on the stereotypes that have been created as a result of actions like this to where the public disconnects, and we sit here and scratch our heads and ask ourselves why only 49% of the electorate votes in this province.

If you look at other jurisdictions, there is much higher participation when it comes to how many people vote. There is actually an attempt on the part of the legislatures in other parts of the world and on the part of governments to be able to engage with the public in order to encourage people to be involved in the democratic process. But if the only time that you’re prepared as a government to meet the people is an election, and you’re not prepared to do it in between, well, I just think you are adding to the cynicism.

Now, the question is, should every bill that this Legislature introduces travel? Not every bill. There are bills that we probably can agree to. There are times where governments have to introduce bills or decide to introduce bills that are supported by all sides of the House and are not particularly controversial. Those particular bills, at times, probably only need a little bit of time in committee, and doing it here at Queen’s Park probably makes some sense.

But in a lot of cases, and especially with this government, we have bills that have pretty far-reaching consequences for the people of Ontario. We saw the bills on the reforms to health care; we saw the budget bill and others; and the city of Toronto bill where we changed the size of the municipality of Toronto as far as how many people got elected in the last election. Those are pretty fundamental bills. Those change things radically, and if you’re not prepared to go to the public and have people have their say on issues like that, then it means you’re afraid of what they’re going to say. That’s what it means.

And if you are afraid of what they are going to say, well, maybe you got it wrong and maybe you should do things differently.

But this particular government has decided, no, that’s not the way they’re going to do things. I think what this government is about is a very simple thing: They’re right; they are an ideological government as we are an ideological party. The Conservatives see things in a certain way and New Democrats see them in a different way, and that’s healthy. There’s nothing wrong with that. But I believe that what this government really is all about is, they do not believe in trying to find solutions by way of the collective, and I mean that in the sense of societal responses to the issues that face us.

A good example of that is what we’re doing with the autism program. We had a program up until April of this year, and now extended for six months, that was, quite frankly, only meeting about a third of the needs of children who have autism. We agree on both sides of the House that that program, although it was a good program, was not robust enough to deal with the needs of the kids out there who had to access it.

So what this government’s ideological approach is, is that the solution to the problem is to give the individual parent $5,000 to $20,000 to fix their problem in order to try to find services for their children. Aside from the fact that $5,000 or $20,000 doesn’t cut it—as you know, Mr. Speaker, autism services for full IBI therapy can be about $70,000 or $80,000, so let’s not even go into that. Here’s the point I want to make: This government believes it’s up to the individual to find the solution, not we, the people, here in Ontario. As a result of that, the parent will get the money and there will be no coordination of services in the community.

So I’m a parent who has just had a child who has been diagnosed with autism. This is a shock; I have no idea what autism is. I know; we’ve gone through it because our granddaughter Eva was born both physically and developmentally delayed, and it has been a real journey for all of us to learn what that’s all about, how you adapt as a family and how you provide services. As parents, grandparents, brothers and sisters, aunts and uncles and family, we struggle to figure out how to respond to these children who have special needs. In this case, the government is saying that it’s up to the parents to find a solution.

So what this government is all about—and that’s what all of these bills are about—is taking our societal responsibility and putting it on the individual, and the individual then must come up with their own solutions.

If you need daycare—no societal response; not an organized system of daycare that’s regulated, that’s safe, that’s affordable—“Here’s some money. You go and figure it out.” You have a child with autism? “Here’s some money. You go and figure it out.” You have a child with special needs—Passport funding. That was the Liberals who did that, by the way.

If the Liberals come into this House and say, “We’re different,” they’re the ones who set up the model by which we’re doing autism changes, because it was the Liberal government who brought in Passport funding, which is essentially the same thing as what this new autism program is about. So when I hear Liberals feigning disgust and being mad at the government for what they’re doing with autism, they should look in the mirror.

But my point is, the Conservatives really do believe—and the Liberals to a certain extent as well, because they’re kind of the party of the right as well—that what you need to do is empower parents so that they become the solution. Now, as a parent and as a grandparent, I want to be part of the solution, but I want to know there’s something there to help me navigate through the system and find the correct services for the child.

Imagine if we carry this individualistic approach to something like health care. All of a sudden, you become ill, and we no longer have a health care system as we know it today. The government says, “Here’s $100,000 for your lifetime. Go heal yourself.” Now you’re out there trying to find whatever doctors, specialists, nurse practitioners or whatever to deal with your particular needs. You’re really in a spot that—

Interjections.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: Please.

Anyway, I was just saying that it would really put us in a position—

Interjections.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: I’m really listening to this conversation now. Thank you.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Percy Hatfield): Perhaps the conversation at the table is distracting the speaker—the person who has the floor, not this Speaker. We’ll return to the member from Timmins, and the conversation at the table will be lowered. Thank you.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: I apologize about that, but sometimes some of the voices carry and you can understand every word being said. And as a House leader, I was interested in that conversation.

I just want to say that this particular government has put itself in a position that it really believes there is no societal response to the issues that face us as citizens. That’s where they do not want to go out to the public and face the public when it comes to the initiatives they put through this House. Because although there are some people in our society who believe that—I understand. I have people in my own family, without naming names, one of whom, if he’s watching today—we’re always on Facebook, having a little bit of fun about his views.

I would say that 25% of the public, 24% of the public, believe in that firmly, because they’ve never had to be in a position to have to navigate things on their own. They’ve either got enough money, or they’ve been lucky and have never really been ill and haven’t had to face adversity, where the system had to be there in order to help them out. It’s not until after that they become, “Oh, well, that’s what that was all about.”

I always remember my godfather, Uncle Con, who was a devout conservative. He was so far right, he made Attila the Hun look like a communist. He was that far right. A very nice man; I loved him dearly. My Aunt Odette is still alive and lives in British Columbia—a wonderful family. But his views were extremely right-wing.

I always remember when he unfortunately contracted—first he had a heart problem, and then, after that, he had cancer, which eventually he died from. I remember, as a kid, growing up when Ontario brought in OHIP. He was arguing with our family about how bad an idea that was, and why should his hard-earned dollars go to pay for some person who doesn’t work to get health care? He used to have those arguments in the family, and I remember as a kid—I was 10 or 12 years old, so I remember those conversations well.

Anyway, the long and the short of the story—I’ll always remember: When he was unfortunately in a palliative state—my dad and him were, you know, the best of buddies growing up. They were estranged for a while but they eventually made it up again, as most siblings do. We always have arguments with our siblings and later in life patch things up and recognize that we’re family. At least that’s what we should be striving for.

But my point is, my Uncle Con says to my dad, “Aurel,” he says, “I’m a New Democrat now,” because he realized, only because of the experience of going through the health care system, that he didn’t have to empty his bank account in order to be able to care for health care needs and leave my aunt with nothing when he passed away—and he was well-to-do enough.

That’s the point here: Unless you go through that experience, it’s a pretty easy thing to say, “Government should get out of my way and I should pay no taxes,” and that’s what these guys are all about.

Now, do we want to pay more taxes than we should? Absolutely not. Nobody wants to pay more than they should. But the cost of doing nothing and allowing the individual to pay is much more expensive than trying to socialize the cost through taxes or government programs. What these guys are all about is, quite frankly, removing as much government as they can so that the individual will have to find the solution to their problems. For some people, they’re going to be happy, but for most people, they won’t.

As that relates to the amendment on the time allocation motion, it means that this government, when it comes to not wanting to allow the public to comment on their bills, quite frankly, has a lack of confidence in their own policies and their own thoughts about how all of this could work, because if they really felt strongly about what they are doing, they would not be afraid to go out and bring it to the public.

I served as a government member in the early 1990s, where you had no choice. You had to actually go out and send your bills into the public because we didn’t have time allocation at that time, and the rules of the House allowed the opposition to force the government to negotiate things like public hearings. We had to travel all kinds of bills—budget bills, bills of various natures—that were put forward by our government of the day. I found it quite informative and quite instructive, as a government member, to be out in those committees because I believed in most of what we did.

Like with every government, there is something, when you are sitting in government, you may not be happy with, but by and large, 90% of what we did I thought was pretty darn good stuff. I am sure the government members probably feel the same way.

But the thing is, going out as a committee member, as a government member on those bills, was informative, because there were things that you would learn as you would be out there. The public would give you input on what you were doing, and all of a sudden you would come to the conclusion, “We’re trying to do A, but actually what we’re doing is affecting B, and so therefore let’s fix the problem so that we actually fix A.”

Back then, the committee clause-by-clause process was meaningful, because as you went through the hearings process and travelled your bills across Ontario, you came back to the Legislature and you said, “Well, do you remember we were in Kenora and somebody mentioned this, and then we heard it again in Sault Ste. Marie and then we heard it in Cornwall?” Then the government and the opposition members would agree to some type of an amendment and, often, we would support opposition amendments. Sometimes, yes, we’d put it in our own name, but by and large the amendment got done.

Governments after that did the same thing until we got rid of the rules and eliminated the ability of the opposition to force bills into committee and to travel.

What it did, it did for legislation that stood the test of time. For example, I’ll just take one that the member for Parry Sound–Muskoka may remember, and that was the snowmobile bill. You were there. You remember the government of the day when we did legislation that put in place the snowmobile trail system that we have today. It is a beacon of North America when it comes to snowmobile trails. But you will remember, because I am pretty sure you were on committee with me. I don’t remember if you were or not, but you are another member who was interested in that, I do know.

There were things that we heard on that committee that we would have never thought of in drafting the bill. There were people that came before us, and the government allowed some of my amendments to go forward as, at that time, a third-party member. We amended the bill and that bill has never been re-amended since. In fact, I was sitting down with the president of the snowmobile club for Timmins the other day; I just happened to run across him having breakfast.

He was talking about the good stuff that they were doing and how it was working—the trail system etc.—and how robust the system is and that, without the stuff we had done back then, those snowmobile clubs would not be operating today. So it stood the test of time. Why? Because we allowed the bill to travel.

It was the same thing with the changes to the sustainable forestry development act back in the day when we were government. We travelled that bill for two or three weeks in areas that forestry was active: mostly northern Ontario and central Ontario. The government members and the opposition members—in this case, Chris Hodgson, who was the Conservative member on the committee—brought forward amendments that were reasonable, that made sense and that were based on what we were hearing out there. We amended the legislation. That bill is still in place. It’s the model by which we manage forests in the province of Ontario, and it actually works.

For example, the other day—I live out at Kamiskotia Lake, and normally the city dump that’s there opens on May 1. So I decided, “I’m not going to leave my garbage inside my grey box, because bears are starting to come out. I’m going to go dump it in the dump so I don’t have any bear problems.” So I drive out and find—my God—the forest company went in and they essentially cut about 200 to 300 yards on both sides of the highway from the old Halfmoon Lake road up to the current Timmins dump.

I’m looking at this, and there is all kinds of damage that was done to the walking trails and the bike trails—the bike trails there are not paved; they’re just sand—that have been existing since the time I was a boy, because I grew up at Kamiskotia. We bought that place in 1960. We moved out there when I was a kid.

The point is that I got on the phone and, because of the sustainable forestry development act—I called the MNR on Monday, talked to the forester on Monday afternoon or left a voicemail message and sent a text, and they’re now looking at it in order to clean it up. Why? Because there’s a mechanism to allow that to happen. Clearly, in this case, whoever was the contractor didn’t do what they should have done when it comes to mitigating damages to those trails. So there is a mechanism by which we make sure that that area is not affected in a way that prevents its use by local cottagers.

My point is that those changes came as a result of talking to people. I remember being on that committee and a big concern was—there was real big pushback, then, on clear-cut. We were changing the technology of the day to move from clear-cut to careful logging, where you only take out the mature trees and you leave the smaller ones behind. There was a concern that there would be such an appetite for timber or for wood that there would be an over-cut and that we would move into areas next to cottages, campsites, First Nations and municipalities etc.

The real concern of northern Ontario was—we are environmentalists because we live in a forest that’s living and breathing and is still there. We didn’t cut all our trees down like we have here in southern Ontario. I live in a forest. That’s where I live. I live out at Kamiskotia Lake. Timmins is in a forest. If you walk two minutes out of Timmins, you’re in the forest. So nobody wants to see the forest harvested in such a way that harms the environment and prevents our enjoyment and use of that forest.

We have this forest management planning system that is the envy of the world, that works really well, and we’re able to manage, quite frankly, how forestry is done in a way that the forest companies get the fibre they need, we still get the use of the forest and we manage the ecological part of it as far as managing species at risk, managing the fauna, all of those things. It’s a great piece of legislation that has stood the test of time. Why? Because we took the time to send that bill into committee and allow it to travel.

Well, this government has decided it doesn’t want to do that. So every bill that we have now is a bill that goes through time allocation, and we have short shrift when it comes to public hearings.

Now, in this particular motion, you have to apply by this Thursday to even sit at committee to be able to present. If you want to depute at committee, which means to say appear to have your say on the bill—if you don’t do it by this Thursday afternoon, you’re going to be done.

Think about it: Who in the city of Toronto who is interested in the issue of the upload on the subways is going to even know that this bill is in committee? Because even if you wanted to, this particular motion is not going to pass until probably tomorrow, which is Wednesday, and the Clerks are going to have to put a notice out Wednesday afternoon for people to come and give their names by Thursday in order to be able to present. That means to say the only people who will get here are the people who are watching this debate or people who are contacted by the critics of the government. That is hardly a way to be engaged with the public.

It used to be, when we allowed the committee process to work the way that it should, that the subcommittee would meet and say, “Okay, we’re going to put in the following papers”—or on the radio, or TV, or parliamentary channel or whatever means possible—“the following advertisement that explains when the committee hearings are going to be.” We would give the public a couple of weeks to get a chance to actually read the paper and get it in their weeklies—because, remember, there are a lot of communities out there who rely on weekly papers.

It means to say that if the paper weekly came out on Wednesday, you’re not going to have a new one until next Wednesday, so you wouldn’t even know about that committee hearing until the following week. We used to always allow at least a couple of weeks out there in public in order to allow people to find out that this thing is meeting.

Whenever we travelled, I was always impressed by how, if you went to Kenora or you went to Cornwall—it didn’t really matter, Mr. Speaker—people showed up. You often had more people sign up to be able to present to the committee than you had time at the committee. It was always a question—not always, but quite often—of having to pick who was going to present based on first-come, first-served. That’s normally what we tried to do.

But it shows that the public does want to be engaged. The public wants to be consulted. People care about their democracy. People care about things like forestry. They care about health care. They care about daycare. They care about transportation issues. They want to be consulted, they want to give you their ideas, and they want to hear what you have to say. So a robust democratic system would allow that to happen in such a way that we’re able to, quite frankly, have the committees meet and go to the public so that in the end they can have their say.

We’re going to have two days of hearings here in Toronto during the intersession. We’re off for constituency week, the week after the Victoria Day long weekend. We’re going to be in the situation where we’ll have two days of hearings, and then it comes back, and then we do clause-by-clause. The other problem in what’s going on there is that you have two days of hearings of which hardly anybody is going to know about, so the only people who show up are the few who are actually watching.

But then when it comes to actual amendments, we’re not even going to have time to read what’s going on when it comes to the hearings, and take into account what the public had to say, or any written submissions that we have, because there won’t be enough time to be able to digest it.

If you remember—I think it was the education bill—there were something like 20,000 people who sent letters to the committee, wanting to have their say around the education bill. By the time we received the letters and the deadline came for the writing of the amendments, the two had overlapped, so we never got it. They didn’t leave enough time for people even to write a letter by email and get it to the committee. By the time we printed those emails and made them available to committee members, it was already too late to create any amendments.

So a whole group of people—20,000 people—who presented by way of the Internet or letter or fax to the committee Clerk, their thoughts were not taken into consideration, by and large, because the majority of those, by the time they came in, unfortunately—it was so pressed by the way the government wrote the time allocation motion that we couldn’t have used what they had to say, even if we wanted to.

So what does that mean, Mr. Speaker? What does it mean when a government says, “We’re going to give short shrift to the public when it comes to what we do here in the Legislature and what we do with public bills”? I just have to say, Mr. Speaker, that it’s really a sad, sad day when we’re in this situation. I just say, again, if the government was so proud about what they were doing, let them take the bill to committee. Let them bring the bill to communities of interest. Let the people have their say. As Brian Mulroney would say, “What are you afraid of?”

I think you guys are afraid of what you might hear, because you’re hearing it as we’re hearing in our constituencies. Last Friday, I went to the YMCA. This was just people wanting to meet, so I went to the YMCA for meetings. I went to the library for meetings. I went to a health facility for meetings, and—what was the other?—the real estate people for meetings. There was another one; I can’t remember which one it was. It will come to me. Oh, yes; I went to another health facility. They all had one thing in common: They were worried and didn’t understand what all of these cuts were going to do to their budgets.

They were trying to adjust with budgets that they had already struck, because most people have done their budgets by now. They did so either as of January 1 or as of April 1, and they are now being told that they are going to have to revise expenditures because of what this government’s budget has done, and nobody really knew what the heck it meant. They started to get an idea, but they certainly didn’t know what it meant. Oh, yes; the other meeting I had was with one of the school boards.

As they were looking at the estimates that came out on Thursday, they were just starting to grapple with what this was all about.

I think the government understands very well that they are not getting a warm reception at the door when it comes to the changes that they’re making. A good case in point is the member from—I can’t use the member’s name—

Interjection: Brampton?

Mr. Gilles Bisson: No, Mr. Oosterhoff, his riding.

Interjections: Niagara West.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: The member from Niagara West had 10 or so elderly women show up in order to do a read-in in his office—70-year-old women. They’re not terrorists; they’re just people who want to be able to make a point.

Interjections.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: Listen, I’ve had people come into my office and do the same thing. I don’t know what the government is so upset about. We all get that. I had them in government and I had them in opposition.

Interjection.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Percy Hatfield): Order, please. Member from Sarnia–Lambton, come to order, please.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: People have the right to come and express themselves to their local member of Parliament. In this case, these women went in to do a read-in. It’s a pretty easy thing to do. I don’t know; either they didn’t like the books or the idea that they were reading. I don’t know why they wouldn’t let them in. But right away, the reaction was to call the police—

Interjections.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Percy Hatfield): Member from Sarnia–Lambton, come to order, please. The Minister of Education, come to order, please.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: I think that’s indicative of what the government is feeling out there, in that the public is pushing back. Some of the members are dealing with it in ways that are of their own choice.

I’m not going to say that there has never been a member on both sides of the House who has not called the police. At times, that happens. I understand that.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Percy Hatfield): I would ask the member from Timmins to get back to the motion that we’re discussing on the floor.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: Yes, the motion. It’s all about consultation, Mr. Speaker. It’s all about the consultation that the government is not doing when it comes to, quite frankly, this bill and other bills that they’ve put forward by way of time allocation. I’m just saying that the public is pushing back, and they’re going to find different ways to do it.

We were here in a debate yesterday on the motion put forward by the Leader of the Opposition on declaring a climate emergency in Ontario. You saw that there were people here in the galleries who were here to observe, and some of them were here to protest. We see them out on the lawns almost every day now, since this government has come back this spring, protesting about the various initiatives of this government. We’re seeing people protest at people’s constituency offices.

So I understand why the government doesn’t want to go out. They’re saying, “If we go out there, it’s going to be tough.” Well, being government is tough. I understand that. I was in a government for five years. It’s not easy. You are having to make decisions that at times the public, quite frankly, may not be in step with, but your responsibility as a government member is to be able to explain to the public why it is that you’re taking a particular position.

I went through it. I went through it in spades when I was in government under the social contract. But each and every time I allowed people in my office. When they protested, I supplied the coffee, or bottles of water. At times, they were mad at me. At times, they yelled at me. But I had to, as a local member, hear what they had to say.

This is the point that I’m trying to make: If the government is not prepared to hear what the public has to say by way of travelling committees, then it can’t be too supportive—not supportive; maybe they are not, how would you say, as enthusiastic as they need to be about the various government initiatives that they’re putting forward.

I look at members here who served in the federal House. They would understand that as well, because in the federal House, the committee—

Interjection.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: Well, no; the member said I used to do the same thing there.

Interjection.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: Wow, these guys are just something else.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Percy Hatfield): To the member from Markham–Stouffville: Through the Chair, please.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: I’m trying to give—

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Percy Hatfield): I know what’s going on. I know that the member for Timmins is trying to get a rise out of you guys, and you guys are falling for it. But the member for Markham–Stouffville will direct his comments through the Speaker, and then we’ll hear more from the member from Timmins.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: I was actually trying to give the member the compliment of having experienced having served in the federal House. I don’t understand why he’s upset, but anyway, that’s a whole other issue. But I just want to say—

Ms. Goldie Ghamari: Why? Are you jealous?

Mr. Gilles Bisson: Listen, I have no interest federally, let me tell you. It’s not a place that I would want to serve.

But the point is that the government is, I think, doing a great disservice to the public when it’s not—

Interjection.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: If you think you are doing a great job, member from Lambton, take your bill out and travel. It’s as simple as that.

To all of the members across the way: What are you afraid of? Brian Mulroney said, “What are you afraid of?” I always remember that motto during that free trade election: “What are you afraid of?” I ask the government across the way: What are you afraid of? Why won’t you travel your bills? You’re either not travelling your bills because you’re afraid of what the public can say, or you’re not travelling your bills because you don’t believe in democracy. Both of them are bad.

I’m just saying that you have a responsibility to be held to account by the public. Democracy is not just about elections every four years; democracy is about engaging with the public. That means to say yes at our constituency offices, where people come in and tell us they’re upset with things.

As an opposition member, I have people who come in who don’t like my particular position on things. That’s fair. They have a right to their view. But I also have an obligation to hear what they have to say.

When a government is not prepared to hear what the other side has to say in the public—I’m not talking about members, but people who don’t agree with them—when they don’t want to talk to them, they don’t want to hear them, when they want to make sure they don’t come into their offices and they don’t want to engage by not having a committee travel, then they are essentially saying that the only thing that matters is what they believe. You don’t believe in what the public has to say. You at least have to listen, is the point that I’m trying to make here.

The damning thing about this whole thing that really frustrates me as I look at members who were here in the previous Parliament, who served here in opposition—they used to get up and chastise the Liberals for their use of time allocation. They would be up on their feet. I am telling you, there were so many speeches from members that I see in the House this morning who were upset every time the government tried to time-allocate something—because the Liberals were just as bad. They time-allocated absolutely everything. There was nothing that went through the House without time allocation.

The Tories would get up and say, “We’re different. If you vote for us, we’re going to respect the public. If you vote for us, we’re going to make sure that committees travel. If you vote for us, we’re not going to do time allocation.” And my God, they got elected, and what happened on their way to government? They tripped and forgot everything they thought in opposition. So I say to the government across the way: It really leads to the cynicism that the public has about politics. If you say one thing in the opposition and then do completely the opposite when you get to government, it’s galling to the public.

Imagine those parents who heard Mr. Ford say in the last election: “If you vote for me and you’re a parent of an autistic child, you won’t have to come to the front door at Queen’s Park and protest to get what you need for your children.” Then he gets elected and he does completely the opposite. And the government wonders why the public is upset?

I have never seen, in my 29 years here, the anger that exists within those families towards this government. You don’t even have to go looking for it; it manifests itself on its own. I’ll tell you, for these parents and these children, it is quite a traumatic experience to go through.

I’ve only got a couple of minutes. But there are constituents I’ve gotten to know over the years quite well. There’s one in particular who talks about his life of having to quit a full-time job to care for two autistic children, and how he doesn’t sleep at night because either one or the other boy won’t sleep because the child has autism and is acting out at all hours of the night. This poor child and this poor parent are having to live with that. This government is taking away any hope they had.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Percy Hatfield): Thank you.

Debate deemed adjourned.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Percy Hatfield): The time being what it is, we will now go in recess until question period at 10:30.

The House recessed from 1015 to 1030.

Introduction of Visitors

Miss Monique Taylor: I have two groups that I would like to welcome today. First, I’d like to welcome back our autism advocates: Amy Moledzki, Lisa Kahn, Jeffrey Freeman, Michau van Speyk, Angela Brandt, Faith Munoz, Crystal Burningham and Jaime Santana. Welcome back to Queen’s Park.

Then I have another group that’s visiting us today, Speaker, because today is Children and Youth in Care Day. I have a group from the OACAS. Coming from staff are Christina Campbell and Kayla Scott; and the youth are Dante Williams, Erika Koehn, Stephanie McNab-Scott and Reshma Shiwcharran. Welcome to Queen’s Park, and happy Children and Youth in Care Day.

Hon. Lisa M. Thompson: It’s my pleasure to welcome to Queen’s Park a special school from Bayfield, Ontario: Lakeview Christian School. I’m very pleased that on a regular basis, the students come and visit Queen’s Park, and I welcome them here today.

Hon. Michael A. Tibollo: I would like to introduce a very special guest to the Legislature this morning: Mr. Duff Roman. Mr. Roman was recently inducted by the Canadian Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences into the honour roll of Walt Grealis award recipients at this year’s Juno Awards for his incredible contributions to the Canadian music industry.

For those of my age and above, you may remember Mr. Roman as an incredible on-air personality for a variety of radio stations, most famously associated with CHUM-FM. He’s also a member of the Canadian Association of Broadcasters Hall of Fame.

Duff, congratulations for all your great work, and welcome to Queen’s Park.

Mr. Faisal Hassan: I would like to welcome my friend Neethan Shan to Queen’s Park this morning. Welcome.

Hon. Christine Elliott: I’d like to welcome the members of the Canadian Association of Physician Assistants who are here with us today at Queen’s Park. I hope you have an enjoyable and productive day.

Ms. Catherine Fife: I’d like to introduce my OLIP intern, Jad El Tal. He is my sixth OLIP intern.

OLIP is an exceptional non-partisan program at Queen’s Park, and the interns are hosting their spring reception this evening in rooms 228 and 230, and they want everyone in this House to attend. It really is the party of the year.

Hon. Victor Fedeli: I’m pleased to welcome friends from North Bay, Susan Van Der Rassel and her son, Ishmael Van Der Rassel.

Ms. Laura Mae Lindo: I’m excited to welcome Niki to Queen’s Park, who is here to shadow me today. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Mrs. Marie-France Lalonde: I’d like to welcome to the House Ms. Reshma Shiwcharran, Dante Williams, Erika Koehn, Christina Campbell and Kayla Scott, who are here today to celebrate Children and Youth in Care Day.

Ms. Lindsey Park: I’m proud to inform the House that today, page Emily Brown from my riding of Durham is page captain. I’d like to welcome her family to the Legislature. Sitting in the members’ gallery are her father, Douglas Brown, her mother, Kristy Brown, and her grandparents Merrill and June Brown, and David and Joan Dalton. A warm welcome to Queen’s Park today.

Mr. Tom Rakocevic: I’m proud to welcome my friend and former city of Toronto councillor, Neethan Shan, and my friend Rob Cerjanec.

Hon. Monte McNaughton: I’m pleased to welcome to Queen’s Park today Jeremy Rabideau. Jeremy is from Lambton–Kent–Middlesex, and his daughter, Kate, is page captain today. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Ms. Jill Andrew: Good morning, Speaker. I am proud to welcome members of the Tamil community here today for the press conference proclaiming Tamil Genocide Education Week in Ontario. Welcome to the Legislative Assembly.

Mr. Stephen Lecce: I’d like to introduce the parents of Munisha Basiram, my outstanding and skilled OLIP intern. Munisha’s parents, Vidya Basiram and Dan Basiram, have joined us in the Legislature. Welcome to the people’s House.

Mr. Chris Glover: I’d like to also welcome Neethan Shan. Neethan was a student when I was a teacher at East York Collegiate, he was a guest speaker in my class at York University and he was a colleague on the Toronto District School Board and on the Toronto Board of Health. Welcome, Neethan, to the Legislature.

Miss Christina Maria Mitas: Hi, it’s great to be back. I’d like to welcome my sister, Thalia, who is here with me today with my baby, Cressida. Thank you for coming.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): It appears that concludes the introduction of visitors.

Anniversary of the Mulivaikal massacre

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): The member for Scarborough Southwest has informed me she has a point of order she’d like to raise.

Ms. Doly Begum: Thank you, Speaker. This Saturday, on May 18, we mark the 10th anniversary of the Mulivaikal massacre, one of the darkest periods of the Tamil genocide. I seek unanimous consent for the House to observe a moment of silence and remember those who lost their lives.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): The member for Scarborough Southwest is seeking the unanimous consent of the House for a moment of silence to remember those who lost their lives in the Tamil massacre. Agreed? Agreed.

The House observed a moment’s silence.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Thank you very much.

Oral Questions

Public health

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My first question this morning is to the Premier. Ontario’s regional public health units are only now getting a better look at the chaos in store for them from this government’s public health scheme. Yesterday we saw the preliminary geographic boundaries for the Premier’s reckless scheme to eliminate 25 public health units. Large cities like Ottawa and Kingston will now share a public health unit,

whereas the Renfrew public health unit will be sliced down the middle.

Who did the government consult to draw up these boundaries, Speaker?

Hon. Doug Ford: Minister of Health.

Hon. Christine Elliott: I thank the official opposition for the question, but, in fact, the boundaries have not been decided upon yet. There are numerous consultations that have yet to happen.

There were some discussions that happened by phone last week with the medical officers of health upon the suggestion of boundaries, but they are only suggestions; they have not been decided upon. There is a lot of consultation, particularly with municipalities, that has yet to happen.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Supplementary question.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Well, Speaker, it’s clear that the government is proposing that, for example, the Waterloo, Peel, Halton, Wellington and Guelph regional public health units all merge into one.

Chief medical officers in Hamilton and Niagara are still struggling to figure out how the mergers of their regions will even work, much less what the impact will be on the services that they provide to people in those communities.

While the government cooks up these schemes behind closed doors, people who actually work in public health every day are worried for their communities and their jobs.

Why is the government keeping public health units in the dark while they force through these risky changes?

Hon. Christine Elliott: The purpose of this proposal is to make sure that we modernize our public health system to be able to respond to crises in public health that do occur from time to time. We can probably expect that it’s going to occur even more frequently in the future, so we need to be ready for it. That’s what we’re preparing for.

As for the public health units being left in the dark, that is absolutely not the case. They have been consulted. They have had conversations. There are many more discussions that have yet to be had.

As I indicated in my previous answer, no boundaries have been decided upon yet. That was going to be decided after appropriate consultations with municipalities, with the public health units and with others.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Final supplementary.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: To cut first and plan later is irresponsible; to do that in health could be catastrophic for the people of our province.

The Premier’s attack on our regional health care systems will impact every single part of our province. This kind of chaos will only harm the people who depend on their services.

I find it disgraceful that cabinet ministers are laughing at this prospect, because I can tell you that people in public health are certainly not laughing. They are very, very, very concerned.

In response to the news in Waterloo, regional chair Karen Redman said this: “I have grave concerns. The farther you move away from local decision-making, the greater the opportunity there is for less responsive and accountable decisions.”

Why is the Premier reducing accountability and imposing a one-size-fits-all scheme on communities across Ontario?

Hon. Christine Elliott: The modernization of our public health system is something that we’ve been working on for months. The change from the 35 units of public health to 10 is something that we are working on through the consultations that are necessary with the appropriate people involved. This is not something that has just been thought up in the last minute; this is something that’s very purposeful and has been thought about in great detail by many people. It’s something that is going to be subject to further consultations with the people who are going to be dealing with this on the front lines.

We want to make sure that our local public health units are going to be able to respond to issues that are going to come up from time to time. There are outbreaks of certain diseases; that’s going to continue, so we need to be ready. We are ready at the Ministry of Health, and we want to make sure that local health units are going to be ready to deal with this as well.

Education funding

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My next question is also to the Premier. Yesterday, the Toronto District School Board released their proposed operating budget for this year, which had a $42-million hole because of the government’s cuts to education. In the past this school board has been able to make up shortfalls in their budget without affecting students in the classroom, but this year the board says it’s not possible. They’re saying that programs and services for students will need to be scaled back.

Is the Premier ready to admit now that his education cuts are actually hurting students?

Hon. Doug Ford: Through you, Mr. Speaker: Our government is about making sure that students are ready for the new economy and making sure that they’re ready to get out in the work world.

The numbers that the TDSB put out were absolutely reckless. They put these numbers out to the public prematurely, before they even know the numbers. They’re throwing these numbers out arbitrarily. Our ministry’s numbers are totally the opposite.

It’s disheartening that they move forward with these figures without first attempting to even verify the accuracy of these numbers. It’s the old scare tactics. Political stunts like this only serve to cause anxiety with parents and with students.

Over the past 15 years, there has been zero oversight and accountability when it comes to the education spending at our school boards. The—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Stop the clock. I’m going to ask the member for Davenport and the member for Waterloo to come to order.

Start the clock. Supplementary question.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Speaker, the Premier only needs to hold up a mirror to see reckless, out-of-control and premature.

One of the programs that the Premier’s cuts to education are hitting is the French immersion and extended French program. Students will now have fewer opportunities to participate in French immersion, because the board is forced to reduce the number of pathways into the program, and fewer students are able to be bused into schools to access the program.

Does the Premier believe that forcing schools to cut essential programs like French immersion will actually help students succeed?

Hon. Doug Ford: This year, Mr. Speaker, we’re giving the TDSB $3 billion, and we’re asking the TDSB to find three quarters of 1% in efficiencies—three quarters of 1% in efficiencies. But guess what the school board does instead? They go out and waste taxpayers’ money. They spend over $700,000 to replace some locks—locks on schools. These are great ones: To replace one electrical outlet, they spent $3,000. For a $2.50 outlet, they spent $3,000 to install it. This is even better. One of those whiteboards, the whiteboards that cost $127—the school board went out and spent $2,500 on a whiteboard. This is reckless spending. Over and over again we see it—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Opposition, come to order.

Hon. Doug Ford: They went to one school—

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Thank you. Final supplementary.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: I think the Premier should check if it was a whiteboard or a smartboard; maybe he doesn’t know the difference, Speaker.

French immersion is not the only program that is going to be cut back because of the Premier’s education cuts. The international language program, the international baccalaureate program and the outdoor education program are all seeing cuts. There will be fewer psychology staff, fewer supports for teachers to boost their skills in science, math and technology, and fewer opportunities for students to learn music and art. Is this the kind of change the Premier thinks our students deserve?

Hon. Doug Ford: Mr. Speaker, I think the public needs to know how they waste money at the school board. For seven hours, they hired someone to hang three pictures—seven hours. But it gets even better: They called the same company up that spent seven hours hanging three pictures to come two days later, and they took eight hours to hang three more pictures up. It’s outrageous spending we see.

They went out and spent $143 on a pencil sharpener. That is reckless. They cut one single key, a single key that costs $5 at Home Depot; they spent $147 to cut one key. At R.H. McGregor, they needed a little bench moved, Mr. Speaker. The school board hired four guys to come by to move one bench. That’s the reckless spending we’re going to stop. We’re going to make sure there’s transparency, there’s accountability—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Stop the clock.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Order.

Restart the clock. Next question.

Government accountability

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Speaker, I knew the Premier wanted to be the mayor of Toronto; now he wants to be the superintendent of the Toronto District School Board.

My question is to the Attorney General, though, Speaker. Today’s Globe and Mail—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Order.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Today’s Globe and Mail provides more details of a disturbing incident last year in which Dean French, the Premier’s chief of staff, ordered senior political aides to direct police to raid cannabis stores the day that marijuana became legal, with the goal of getting people in handcuffs on the noon-hour news. The Globe reports that the Attorney General attended a follow-up meeting in which these same staff were reprimanded by Dean French, the Premier and senior cabinet ministers for not following through on Mr. French’s orders.

Can the Attorney General confirm that she attended this meeting, and, if she did, did she actually take the time to explain to the Premier how inappropriate it is for politicians and their staff to attempt to direct police?

Hon. Caroline Mulroney: The Solicitor General.

Hon. Sylvia Jones: Speaker, you know, the NDP might not get it but I think the vast majority of Ontario residents understand that our goal is to ensure that our families and our communities are safe.

The fact that chiefs of staff and ministers, frankly, are asking for updates suggests that we want to make sure that the policies and legislation we are bringing forward are actually making a difference to the front-line officers.

I continue to appreciate and understand—and I wish the NDP would—that these illegal cannabis shops fund opioids, human trafficking and guns and gangs in our community. We must shut them down. And the only way that we can do that is to monitor to make sure that the policies and legislation we have brought forward are actually making a difference to the front-line officers. That’s what we’re doing. That’s what our staff are doing, and we will continue to do that—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Stop the clock.

Start the clock. Supplementary.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Speaker, the government staff who refused to do Dean French’s bidding did so for a very good reason: In a democracy, the government does not dictate who police investigate or how they conduct investigations. It’s a concept, sadly, that the Ford government seems to have a problem with.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Government side, come to order.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: The Attorney General, however, has a unique role at the cabinet table, and this is exactly the sort of moment when she should have spoken up. Why did she not speak up, Speaker?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Stop the clock. I’m sorry to interrupt again, but I have to call members to order. The Premier must come to order. The Minister of Children, Community and Social Services must come to order. The Minister for Infrastructure must come to order. The Minister for Economic Development, Job Creation and Trade must come to order.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): While I’m at it, the member for Eglinton–Lawrence will have to come to order. The member for Etobicoke Centre will come to order.

Start the clock. The Solicitor General to reply.

Hon. Sylvia Jones: Our government understands and appreciates how important law and order is in the province of Ontario. We will continue to monitor the activities of these illegal cannabis shops because, as I say, Speaker, it is critically important that people understand that this is a source of funding for guns and gangs in the province of Ontario. This is funding human trafficking in the province of Ontario. Illegal cannabis shops are funding the opioid crisis in our communities.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Opposition, come to order.

Hon. Sylvia Jones: If the NDP doesn’t understand why it’s important that we know that these illegal cannabis shops are shut down, then I can’t attempt to explain why they don’t understand that chiefs of staff need to have the input and—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Stop the clock. The Minister of Infrastructure will come to order.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): The Minister of Infrastructure is warned.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): The Leader of the Opposition will come to order. The member for Waterloo will come to order—for repeated interjections, if you’re wondering why.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): The member for Kitchener–Conestoga will come to order. The Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing will come to order. The Premier will come to order.

I want to apologize to the Solicitor General for interrupting her response, but I had to call one of her colleagues to order because of repeated interjections.

Start the clock. The next question.

Taxation

Mr. Michael Parsa: My question is to the Premier. The federal government adopted the job-killing carbon tax on April 1. Sadly for the people of Ontario, it was no April Fool’s joke. People across the province from all walks of life are feeling the impact of the carbon tax. Hospitals, universities and colleges, businesses and seniors across Ontario are paying the price. No one is exempt. The Prime Minister had better take note, because Canadians are growing angry.

Mr. Speaker, can the Premier please update the Legislature on the status of the carbon tax challenge?

Hon. Doug Ford: I want to thank our great MPP from Aurora–Oak Ridges–Richmond Hill. He’s a champion, like the rest of these champions.

Mr. Speaker, I had an opportunity to host Premier Scott Moe from Saskatchewan and talk about the carbon tax and the effects that are taking place right across this province, right across this country. It’s not a coincidence that every Premier who ran against the carbon tax has won. From PEI and New Brunswick to Quebec, Ontario, Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Alberta, the people of Canada do not want a carbon tax. It’s a job-killing tax. It puts a burden on the backs of every single family in the entire country. It puts a burden on every single company that exists.

Everything is going up, my friends. Everything the people out there are buying today is going up in price in the stores. Their gas is more expensive. Everything is more expensive—

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Thank you. Supplementary question?

Mr. Michael Parsa: I thank the Premier for his very eloquent answer, as always.

Ontario will be paying $648 million more a year because of the federal government’s costly carbon tax. Instead of having a federal Liberal government that is looking to make the lives of Ontarians more affordable, we have a government in Ottawa that is doing the complete opposite.

The Prime Minister has an anti-competitive agenda, and the people and the job creators in my riding are feeling it every day. The same motley crew that brought Ontario to this dire state is now playing an encore for all Canadians. Thank goodness that our Premier is working hard every day to make it easier to get ahead in this province once again.

Mr. Speaker, will the Premier reassure Ontarians of his commitment to defeating this carbon tax?

Hon. Doug Ford: I’d like to thank the member for the question. I can assure every Ontario resident that we’re going to use every tool in our toolbox to fight against the most aggressive, worst tax this province has ever seen.

Again, it makes us uncompetitive. Every company I talked to—it makes us uncompetitive. But our great Minister of the Environment has come up with an incredible plan to make sure we have clean air, clean lakes, clean parks. We’re leading the entire country with a 22.5% emissions reduction. As the rest of the country is a positive 5%, we’re minus 22.5%.

We’re going to hit our 30% target in the next 11 years, and guess what, Mr. Speaker? We did it without a carbon tax, a job-killing carbon tax. We will not stop until we get rid of this carbon tax.

In October, the people in this country will decide if they want a carbon tax or not. I’m betting that they—

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Thank you.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Stop the clock.

Start the clock. The next question.

Fire in Big Trout Lake

Mr. Sol Mamakwa: Meegwetch. Remarks in Oji-Cree.

My question this morning is for the Premier. Recently, there was a devastating fire in the community of Kitchenuhmaykoosib Inninuwug, also known as Big Trout Lake. Five community members died in this fire, a mother and four of her children, all under the age of 13. Chief Donny Morris has issued a declaration of emergency because of the fire’s impacts on the community.

Using Jordan’s Principle, will the government help the community’s youth, who are most affected by the fire and need mental health supports? Meegwetch.

Hon. Doug Ford: To the Minister of Indigenous Affairs, Energy, Northern Development and Mines.

Hon. Greg Rickford: I share, I know, on behalf of my colleagues, our deepest condolences with the victims’ family and, indeed, the community of Kitchenuhmaykoosib Inninuwug. I had a chance to speak to Chief Donny Morris, a person I’ve known for a great number of years. We pledged our support not just in the immediacy of the investigation by the coroner and various other urgent supports, but to continue to provide any supports that he requested. He said that he would be in touch with me as those needs arose, and I pledged additional support for mental health services as they would be required.

It was a good conversation under a difficult set of circumstances, and we remain committed to supporting that community during this difficult time.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Supplementary question.

Mr. Sol Mamakwa: Back to the Premier: The fire in Big Trout Lake is the latest to claim lives in a First Nation. Fires in Pikangikum, Mishkeegogamang and Wunnumin Lake also had very tragic outcomes. First Nation residents are 10 times more likely to die in a house fire than the rest of Canada.

It’s not good enough just to feel bad. It’s not good enough. It’s not enough just to have those moments of silence. There are actions that could be taken to make events like this less likely, so it doesn’t happen again. Will the government commit to working with First Nations to improve fire safety in our communities?

Hon. Greg Rickford: I want to recognize my colleague the minister of children and youth services, who spoke about Jordan’s Principle at the House of Commons last week. The member opposite is right: It is more than just about moments of silence; it’s more about action, Mr. Speaker. That’s why we responded to this fire very quickly and reached out to the chief. In fact, resources from the government of Ontario were mobilized immediately—the chief acknowledged that—and we remain committed to supporting the community. We’ll take our cue from the leadership of that community in terms of what additional support will be required, and it will be there.

Housing

Ms. Effie J. Triantafilopoulos: My question is for the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing. It is very clear that Ontario has a housing crisis. Homes are too expensive to buy or rent, and supply just hasn’t kept up with demand. Last year, three quarters of Ontario households couldn’t afford the average price of a resale home. More than half of renters found the average rent for a two-bedroom just too much for their budget—that is, if they could even find a quality rental in the first place.

This is the result of 15 years of neglect by the previous Liberal government. They increased red tape every chance they got, making it even more difficult to build the housing our province so desperately needs.

Can the minister please explain to this House and to the people of Ontario what our government is doing to increase housing supply in Ontario?

Hon. Steve Clark: I want to thank the incredible member from Oakville North–Burlington for all the work that she does on behalf of her constituents.

I was honoured to speak this morning at the Toronto Region Board of Trade about More Homes, More Choice: Ontario’s Housing Supply Action Plan. And the member is right: It’s clear that after years of mismanagement and inaction on this file by the previous government, there is a shortage of housing in Ontario. There are not enough homes for individuals and families who need it.

Speaker, it takes 10 years to build a low-rise or high-rise housing development in the GTHA. Our plan and legislation aim to speed up the time it takes to build housing across all of Ontario, by cutting red tape and reducing unnecessary delays, duplications and barriers. This is going to make it easier to build more homes and provide more housing choices more quickly, while maintaining protections to people’s health and safety and the environment.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Supplementary question.

Ms. Effie J. Triantafilopoulos: Thank you, Minister, for that answer. It is clear that more housing of more kinds needs to be built. Unfortunately, there is a major backlog of legacy cases at the Local Planning Appeals Tribunal. It is a two- to three-year appeals process. At a time when Ontario is in a housing crisis, this is unacceptable.

It’s estimated there are approximately 100,000 housing units that are caught up in those legacy cases at the tribunal. That’s 100,000 desperately needed homes and rentals that can’t get built, or three years’ worth of construction in Ontario waiting to be approved.

Can the minister tell this House how the tribunal will be able to expedite decisions more quickly in order to get more housing on the market?

Hon. Steve Clark: Again, I want to thank the member for that excellent question.

Speaker, thanks to the support of our fantastic Attorney General, we’re adding as many as 11 new adjudicators to the tribunal. That’s a 45% increase. We’re proposing changes that will broaden the tribunal’s jurisdiction and, in major land use planning appeals, allow it to make the best planning decision. We’re also proposing changes to encourage the use of mediation to simplify the processes and remove potential delays.

We’re also giving the tribunal greater discretion regarding its fees, to make sure that barriers are removed for those seeking to launch an appeal. We’re moving towards a cost-recovery model so that developers pay more for the system, not the people of Ontario.

These changes are going to eliminate the backlog, reduce delays and ensure the LPAT can unjam that logjam and get units created for the people—

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Thank you. Next question.

Occupational health and safety

Mr. Wayne Gates: My question is to the Premier. Last week it was released that the Minister of Labour is cutting $16 million from the office tasked with preventing injuries and deaths in the workplace. The minister is cutting $16 million from the office, despite the fact that it’s not taxpayer-funded and does not impact the government’s bottom line.

Speaker, workplace deaths are going up and up, not down.

My question to the Premier is this: How many more workers need to die in workplaces before he stops cutting the services designed to protect them?

Hon. Doug Ford: Minister of Labour.

Hon. Laurie Scott: I thank the member opposite for the question. We’ve actually increased our health and safety enforcement budget by over half a million dollars. We take the safety of workers in this province very seriously.

In order to protect what matters most, we asked our partners at the health and safety associations to find $12 million in savings by exploring opportunities to implement efficiencies, leveraging third-party revenue, and restricting discretionary spending on items such as non-essential hiring, travelling, training and events.

Mr. Speaker, we had important decisions to make, putting people as a priority. We have looked at health and safety programs. We have worked with the partners that deliver these health and safety programs. There are other avenues of revenue for them to provide the programs.

But we have, as I said, increased our enforcement budget by half a million dollars.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Supplementary question.

Mr. Wayne Gates: Again to the Premier: When asked about the government’s $16-million cut to health and safety, a lawyer with the industrial accident victims’ legal clinic said, “It will ultimately lead to more accidents.”

Not one person should go to work in the province of Ontario and not know if they’re coming home at the end of the day to their families.

Slashing funding designed to protect workers, forcing training sessions online, and creating unaccountable classes will make workers less safe.

The government said they are slashing health and safety in this province because it’s cost-efficient.

So my question is this: What exactly is the value of the life of a worker to this government?

Hon. Laurie Scott: Mr. Speaker, I have to reject the premise of this question. Of course, the health and safety of workers are of utmost importance to this government.

I will repeat again for the member: We actually increased our spending on occupational health and safety enforcement by half a million dollars. Yes, we have the Ontario health and safety associations, and we work with those partners. We told them the reality of the province’s financial situation. These are private organizations that receive revenue funding from multiple sources.

Look, Mr. Speaker, we have the priority of the workers in mind in health and safety. We increased the enforcement budget by half a million dollars. There are other revenue sources for health and safety programs to be delivered. We’ve worked with our partners in these programs. Modernizing health and safety programs—the more people can actually get health and safety programs—is not a bad thing.

Government policies

Ms. Kathleen O. Wynne: My question is for the Premier. Yesterday afternoon in the Legislature at the end of the debate, a young woman stood in the members’ gallery to express her dismay that the government members had not supported an opposition day motion put by the NDP to declare a climate change emergency and to develop a real plan to deal with that emergency.

The fact is that Ontario had taken action to reduce pollution. The fact that the Minister of the Environment can stand in his place and claim confidently that Ontario is on track to meet its targets is because another government, our government, did the heavy lifting. Coal plants are shut down, cap-and-trade was in place, there are more electric vehicles on the road, buildings were being retrofitted because of work—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Stop the clock. The government side will come to order.

I apologize to the member for Don Valley West. Once again, start the clock.

Ms. Kathleen O. Wynne: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, everything we undertook was based on evidence and science and so, to the Minister of the Environment, I say, “You’re welcome.” But the young woman yesterday was not challenging—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Stop the clock.

The member for Don Valley West is an elected member of this House and has every right to ask a question just like any other member of this House. I need to be able to hear her. This is twice that the government side, in huge numbers, has shouted her down. It’s not acceptable behaviour.

Restart the clock. The member for Don Valley West.

Ms. Kathleen O. Wynne: The young woman yesterday was challenging this government to care for the future. She was asking this government to think about her ability to live safely and securely, to have children of her own, free of the ravages of extreme weather and environmental degradation.

Can the Premier please explain how the cancellation of successful programs that have led to the reduction of greenhouse gas emissions, the deletion of those programs, will safeguard the future for that young woman and her entire generation?

Hon. Doug Ford: Minister of Energy.

Interjections.

Hon. Doug Ford: Oh. I’m sorry.

Hon. Greg Rickford: Well, thank you. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Another great opportunity.

It’s a little bit rich coming from that member. We saw what those projects cost the people of Ontario—17 to 48 cents a kilowatt—while Liberal insiders got rich and the people of Ontario, families, seniors and small businesses took the hit, especially out in northern Ontario. I can’t think of a larger transfer of wealth than what occurred under the previous Liberal government and their irresponsible decisions around, especially, industrial wind turbines. This was a dramatic error. We have introduced legislation, the Fixing the Hydro Mess Act. It has just been passed, and we’re well on the path to fix what they broke.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Supplementary question?

Ms. Kathleen O. Wynne: You know, Mr. Speaker, we’ve actually seen this movie before because, when that member was sitting in the federal Parliament, Stephen Harper stood up and took credit for Canada being a leader in reduction of greenhouse gas emissions because of what was being done here in Ontario by a Liberal government. We were reducing greenhouse gas emissions.

Young people are, by nature, optimistic, and they should be. But they are worried about the environment, as they should be. They’re also worried about their education. Their parents are worried about their ability to care for their younger siblings, so this whole question is about the future.

They see this government removing the very supports that they rely on: cutting per pupil funding, that will result in larger class sizes; increasing online courses in high school, when we know from the research that fewer students will complete those courses; reducing student assistance grants, which will mean higher debt and less access to post-secondary education; cutting $1 billion in social services that the—

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Thank you.

Hon. Greg Rickford: Minister of the Environment.

Hon. Rod Phillips: I’m sure it must be frustrating for the member from Don Valley West to see the programs that she put in place, the programs that failed, programs like the cap-and-trade program, a program that the Auditor General explained to the then Premier—but she wouldn’t listen—was going to transfer hundreds of millions of dollars to California—why does she like California better than Ontario? Why does she like California taxpayers better than Ontario taxpayers?

It must be upsetting to see a program put in place that is actually going hit targets, not miss targets like the programs that she put in place—a program that isn’t based on benefiting Liberal insiders but benefiting the people of Ontario.

Our programs are going to hit the targets that her federal Prime Minister, who she stood beside, agreed to—the 30% targets. Our program is going to do that without a cap-and-trade program, without a carbon tax and without subsidizing and picking winners and building electric truck factories for Warren Buffett, or the other things that she supported.

We have a real plan for Ontarians, and it’s—

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Thank you.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Stop the clock. The House will come to order.

Restart the clock. Next question.

Transportation infrastructure

Mr. Daryl Kramp: My question today is for another minister who makes things happen: our Minister of Infrastructure. Last Friday, I had the chance to join the minister in the municipality of Tweed in my riding for a very exciting announcement. We announced funding for 49 road and bridge projects right across this province. These projects are part of our government’s commitment to invest in critical infrastructure where it matters most. These 49 projects are the first that our government nominated in the 10-year, $30-billion infrastructure program known as the Investing in Canada infrastructure program.

Colleagues, this is amazing news for rural and northern municipalities in Ontario. Smart infrastructure investments create jobs, they grow the economy, and they protect what matters most to our families and our communities, our students and our businesses here in Ontario.

To the minister: Tell us more about this program and how it impacts the people of Ontario.

Hon. Monte McNaughton: I want to thank the member from Hastings–Lennox and Addington for that excellent question and for being with me on Friday.

Our government ran on a mandate to get Ontario moving. We announced funding for better roads and bridges in 49 different communities across Ontario on Friday, and this is only the beginning. The majority of these projects can get started in this construction season with federal government support.

I was glad to see last week that my honourable friend Minister Champagne declared that Ontario’s priorities were his priorities. He said that he would work to speedily approve these projects.Mr. Speaker, that is the right thing for the federal government to do.

These projects are valued at over $78 million. This commitment is more proof that our government is protecting what matters most to the people. Good roads and bridges get people to work and home safely so they can spend more time with the people they love.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Supplementary question?

Mr. Daryl Kramp: Minister, thank you for that good news—great news, actually—and your continued guidance and support for our rural and northern communities. This announcement demonstrates that our government is absolutely committed to making the right infrastructure announcements.

Friday’s announcement, back in my riding, took place outside the boundary bridge on Hawkins Bay in the municipality of Tweed. I know personally, from talking to all of the people there, how it impacts them and how much this investment for its replacement will absolutely positively affect their lives in that community.

Six of these projects are located in my riding. Municipalities such as Tweed, Stone Mills, Tudor and Cashel, Hastings Highlands, Carlow Mayo and Tyendinaga will benefit from over $9.4 million in funding for road and bridge projects.

Mr. Speaker, can the minister tell us more about these 49 projects and how they are helping people right across this province of Ontario?

Hon. Monte McNaughton: I would be happy to answer that excellent question. Small and medium-sized towns are the fabric of our province. Projects just like the Boundary Bridge are infrastructure that people need. These investments are essential to the local quality of life and prosperity. They create jobs, grow our economy and shape the future for hard-working families in Ontario. I can only imagine, Mr. Speaker, how much more we could accomplish if the previous Liberal government, supported by the opposition NDP, did not leave us stuck with a $15-billion deficit.

We’re excited about these 49 projects. We are now awaiting approval by the federal government to go ahead. If they can do this, we can get shovels in the ground almost immediately. We’re protecting what matters most and getting Ontario moving again. Our government is working harder, smarter and more efficiently to make life better for the people of this province.

Poverty

Ms. Rima Berns-McGown: My question is for the Premier. Last week, we learned that the government is cutting funding for the Poverty Reduction Strategy office in half, defunding the office by $7.5 million. The Poverty Reduction Strategy office works to break the cycle of intergenerational poverty, identify systemic barriers and eliminate chronic homelessness. Instead of investing in strategies to alleviate poverty, the government has shown its true priorities.

Can the Premier please explain why, once again, his government is making cuts on the backs of our most vulnerable citizens?

Hon. Doug Ford: Minister of Children, Community and Social Services.

Hon. Lisa MacLeod: The member opposite and I have had this conversation many times in this assembly. One in seven Ontarians live in poverty. Almost a million people rely on social assistance that costs this province $10 billion but does nothing to restore dignity.

What does restore dignity is the creation of jobs in the province of Ontario. Since this government has taken office, we’ve been able to work with industry and business leaders to create an additional 160,000 jobs, in addition to the 200,000 jobs that have remained vacant, which is why we are reforming social assistance so that those people who are employable across this province have the dignity of work, have the compassion of a group society where they’re working with individuals.

We know, Speaker, that the best social program is a job. I understand that the members opposite would rather trap people in poverty. Well, this government and this party want to lift them up so that they can succeed, and that’s exactly what this government is doing.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Stop the clock. Order.

Restart the clock. Supplementary question.

Ms. Rima Berns-McGown: In its recent Poverty Reduction Strategy report, the government stated, as the minister did just now, that they are committed to supporting those who need it the most. But you cannot support those who need the help the most when you cut funding for the Poverty Reduction Strategy office in half. You can’t reduce poverty in Ontario when you don’t understand how poverty works, as the minister just demonstrated. You can’t reduce poverty in Ontario when you don’t understand what systemic issues perpetuate it, and when you don’t have a plan and a commitment to making that change.

Can the Premier explain how the government thinks slashing the Poverty Reduction Strategy funding will actually help those living in poverty, many of whom cannot work, which is why the idea that a job is the solution is absolutely ridiculous?

Hon. Lisa MacLeod: Speaker, I come from a small town, New Glasgow, Nova Scotia, where there wasn’t big government. Neighbours helped neighbours, supported one another, and we made sure that those who could work could find suitable employment. I have no idea why the members opposite are so defeatist, why they are so opposed to a good day’s work and a solid day’s pay.

I can tell you that this government for the people is committed to ensuring that we provide wraparound supports for those who can work. That is why I’m working with the Minister of Training, Colleges and Universities, so we can best provide the best wraparound supports for those who are employable to get into those 300,000-some jobs that we know exist in this province. That’s why we’re working with the Minister of Health, so that we can provide the best mental health supports we possibly can.

That’s why we’re working with the Minister of Education, so we can try to get more affordable daycare for single moms out there who might have to stay on social assistance rather than get a job because they don’t have affordable child care.

We have a fundamental difference of opinion—

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Thank you.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Stop the clock. Order. The member for Ottawa Centre has to come to order. The member for Windsor–Tecumseh has to come to order. The member for Hamilton Mountain has to come to order—for repeated interjections in the last round of questions.

Start the clock.

Women’s shelters

Mr. Randy Hillier: Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Children, Community and Social Services. I’ve worked well with the minister in the past as advocates to end violence against women.

Last week, I met with Erin Lee, executive director of Lanark County Interval House, which provides critical services for victims of domestic violence. Erin is very concerned and troubled that the ministry unilaterally and without notice cancelled $53,000 in funding. In addition, none of the interval houses and women’s shelters have received their 2019 budget package or their contract for services.

Minister, this is not efficient. It certainly lacks accountability to have women’s shelters operating without a budget.

Will the minister commit to ending the practice of unilateral and hidden funding decisions that harm those who help victims of domestic violence?

Hon. Lisa MacLeod: I too met with Erin Lee of the interval house last week. We had all 48 of the coordinating committees for violence against women join us last week to talk about some of the issues that we face on the ground.

But before I go into that, I want to say one thing to the member opposite: The reason we have a $1.5-million front-line rural strategy is in essence because of three members of this assembly who I served with in opposition. One is the member from Lanark–Frontenac–Lennox and Addington, another is the member from Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke and the third is the member from Leeds–Grenville—three strong men who have consistently, time and again, stood in this Legislature.

That’s why we are investing an historic $174 million into violence against women. That’s why, above and beyond the previous Liberal administration, we have increased the budget towards violence against women by an additional 2%. I’ll get into more specifics in the supplemental, but I do want to congratulate the member for always standing true—

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Thank you. Supplementary question.

Mr. Randy Hillier: Thank you, Minister. Yesterday, during statements, I mentioned that elected representatives ought to practise in government what we preached while in opposition. The MCCSS year-over-year estimates show a reduction of $17 million for women’s shelters and supports for victims of violence, from $172 to $155 million. In opposition, we both were very critical of government for leaving agencies and organizations in the dark on their funding, yet we still have today these shelters operating in uncertainty. Without this critical budget information, both the shelters and the women and children they serve are living in the dark.

Minister, will you call Erin Lee and all the shelters this week and reveal what their budgets are for 2019?

Hon. Lisa MacLeod: Speaker, as I mentioned, I met with Erin Lee as well as all 48 community groups last week. We’re going to continue to have those conversations. In fact, I’ve spoken with the Minister of Health about convening a meeting with her with respect to mental health issues.

But let me be perfectly clear where it comes to the numbers the member opposite is stating. These perceived reductions are due to the elimination of unfunded and unallocated resources from the Liberal campaign budget. That was irresponsible. Many of us in the social service types of portfolios have had to contend with a fictitious budget that was written on the back of a napkin. When it became clear, we in this government ensured that we increased the spend by almost 2%, or $11.5 million, in order to support women’s shelters across the province of Ontario.

My office continues to work with them, and we will continue to make our commitment to eradicate violence against women as well as sex trafficking in the province of Ontario. There will be no fiercer critic than me on that file.

Violence against women

Unfortunately, women still face barriers right here in Ontario. Too often, women earn less than their male counterparts, and countless women in our communities are confronted by sexual and domestic violence.

Minister, can you please tell us how the government is working to break down these barriers and help keep women safe across the province?

Hon. Lisa MacLeod: I want to thank the member from Durham for always standing in this Legislature and being a very strong advocate for women who are fleeing domestic violence, as well as women who have been dealing with sex trafficking.

I’ve been a strong advocate in this assembly for many years—whether that is making Queen’s Park more family-friendly so members like Christina Mitas can bring their daughter onto the floor of this assembly. I have been a strong advocate in making sure that we continue the work of the Saving the Girl Next Door Act by Laurie Scott, making sure that we’re actually talking about eradicating sex trafficking in the province of Ontario.

We’re working with members of this government to ensure that we continue to protect a woman’s right to choose, and we were very clear about that just yesterday.

Last week, I had the 48 community groups that support violence-against-women initiatives—and we’re going to continue to work with them. That’s why we have a historic investment of $174.5 million—$1.5 million, as I mentioned in the previous question, is dedicated to front-line support for those in rural communities. We’re going to continue to stand up and we’re going to continue to ensure that our voices are heard.

Let me be perfectly clear: It’s up to strong women to support vulnerable women, but it’s—

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Thank you. Supplementary question.

Ms. Lindsey Park: Violence against women has significant economic costs. I think people sometimes forget that. It’s estimated that the economic impact of spousal violence in Canada is $7.4 billion. That amounts to roughly $220 per Canadian.

While we’ve made progress to achieve greater gender equality, we must have women fully engaged in the political discourse.

Can the minister please tell us how she’s engaging women in the political discourse in Ontario?

Hon. Lisa MacLeod: As I mentioned, I convened Ontario’s 48 existing violence-against-women coordinating committees just last week, some tremendous women and men from across the province, making sure that we protect our most vulnerable.

We must continue to have this conversation, however, because it is easy, particularly within this ministry, where Ontario’s most vulnerable people rely on us to succeed—that we continue to tell the uncomfortable stories and the truths that are out there, which is why we’re going to continue to work with those coordinating committees, bring in other ministers so that they understand how we intersect and help the survivors. We also want to make sure that we provide the best possible outcomes. We need to see what those issues are in all of our communities.

I think when we look at building up society and building up women, we must also make sure that men are part of that conversation, which is why, just last Friday, I was pleased to spend some time with grade 7 to 11 male students who were talking about manning up. I think that we all have an opportunity here to talk to the men in our lives to make sure that they’re protecting the most vulnerable women in society.

Anti-racism activities

Ms. Laura Mae Lindo: My question is to the Premier. Since September, I have asked every minister responsible for an