HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS Proceedings. --- - - of the During the Second Session of the Thirty-First General Assembly of Newfoundland Speaker: Hon. J. R. Courage VoI:ume II

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS Proceedings of the House of Assembly During the Second Session of the Thirty-First General Assembly of Newfoundland Thursday, February Hth. 1958 (Afternoon Session) The House met at three of the clock in the afternoon, pursuant to adjournment. Presenting Petitions: None. Giving Notice of Motions: Hon. L. R. Curtis: (Attorney General): Mr. Speaker, I give notice I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a Bill, "An Act Further to Amend the District Courts Act." I further give notice I will on tomorrow ask ]eave to introduce a Bill, "An Act Further to Amend the Judicature Act." Hon. J.

T. Cheeseman: (Minister of Fisheries): Mr. Speaker, I give notice I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a Bill, "An Act to Amend the Fishery Salt (Sale and Distribution) Act, 1957 ," Mr. Cnrtis: On behalf of the Honourable Minister of Finance I give notice I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a Bill,

An Act to Amend the Loan and Guarantee Act, 1957." I further give notice I will (on behalf of the Minister of Finance) on tomorrow ask leave to Move the House into Committee of the Whole to Consider Certain Resolutions with Reference to the Gasoline Tax Act." I further give notice I will on tomorrow, on behalf of the Minister of Finance ask .leave to introduce a Bill, "An Act to Amend the Local Authority Guarantee Act, 1957." Hon. W. J. Keough: (Minister of Mines and Resources}: Mr.

Speaker, I give notice I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a Bill, "An Act Further to Amend the Unde­ veloped Mineral Areas Act." I further give notice I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a Bill, "An Act To Amend the Unimproved Lands (Redistribution) Act 1957." Giving Notice of Questions: None. Answers to Questions: None. ORDERS OF THE DAY: Mr. U. Strickland: (Bonavista South): Mr.

Speaker, in rising to speak on the motion that a Committee be appointed to draft an Address in Reply to the Speech from the Throne I had to keep one thing in mind; that honourable members of this House have listened to twenty-four or twenty-five previous speakers. Mr. Speaker: If the honourable member will forgive - the motion is now "That the report be received." Mr. Strickland: Some of the members were rather long•winded, some on this side and some on the other side. Nevertheless, they were all good s_peeches. But I have no desire

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 353 this afternoon, Sir, to test the patience of the honourable members in taking up the time that is allotted to me by repetitious phrases that have been won1 out year after year, tossed higher and yon on the floors of this House,· when members have spoken on a siinilar motion. I would join with all the previous speakers, however, and endorse all that has been s.iid about our present Lieutenant-Governor and his wonderful predecessor.

Let me sum up what lhave to say in two or three words--'--Bolh of them, as far as I am concerned,-are wonderfUI men, men of the highest calibre, true Newfound­ landers, and we wish them well. Last year, as I recaH, Mr. Speaker, -when I stook, up to make my maiden speech-in this House, I just looked across the floor of the House and in- the seat 1 sitting next to the Honourable Leader of tbe Opposition, I saw a very experienced politician. The hon­ ourable gentleman put his eyes right on me aild I was a little bit unnerved for a moment or two.

Today it is a little different, looking across and seeing the smiling faces - It makes all the difference in the place-But, Mr. Speaker, as a replacement for the hon­ oitrablegentleman who is undoubtedly with us in spirit today, we have the honourable member for St. John's South. I must join with my colleagues and his colleagues and say we believe the honourable geritleman has already given notice to this House that he intends to add great strength to the Op­ position in this House.

Every one of us, I knbw, in a private capacity orin one way or another, ex~end greetings and welcome to the honourable member, and we certainly wish him well. I _think all of us on. this side of th~ House, Mr. Speaker, are a little bit proud this year, and possibly have more to say than for a good many years, for die simple reason that two of the youngest members of the House expressed themselves so well (and I am re­ ferring to the honourable member for Lab­ rador North and the honourable member for Burin). They are a credit to themselves. They are a credit to their forebears.

They are a credit to their immediate families. They are a credit to the district they have the honour to represent in this House, and more than that, last but not least, they are a credit to this honourable House itself. for the splendid job that they did in moving and seconding the motion. Hon. M,M. Hollett: (Leader of the Opposi­ tion): That is a lot of credit. Mr. Strickland: A read credit, Mr.

Sp~aker, I did take notice that our honourable friends on the opposite side of the H0use bent over backwards this _year, for somC reason or another, (I do not know why,) to compliment the Government for son;i.e of their policies and programs, I suggest, Mr.

Speaker, that as far as I am cOncemed, it did more to make me feel tha_i: the honourable gentlemen are interested in honest Govw emment in this House, than months or even years of worthless criticism could ever do. ·when honourable members set aside pafiy policies to such an extend they are prepared to give credi_t where credit is due, even though that credit belongs to the Govehi­ ment that they oppose, then I suggest, Mr.

Speaker, that such attitude could possibly be the much needed shot in the arm that is required to help some of our intelligent young men and women to decide that, fo} them, politicies will be their future vocatioll.: I must say too many of us in the past have feltthat politics have been too rotten to have anythi?gto.do with. I suggest, Mr. Speaker, that this atutude that some of the honoura~ hie gentlemen have taken in this House this year, if carried on, will do a lot to dean up that impression. I trust, Sir, that it is just a foretaste of better things to come. Premier Smallwood: Here. Here. Mr.

Strickland: I may be the last speaker on this motion. That is up to my honourab_le leader to decide. That has advantages as well as disadvantages. It has the advantage in tbat I have heard what the honourable members of the Opposition had to say, as well as my colleagues on this side. But it also has this great disadvantage, that all the good things that could have been said have possi­ bly been said already. I am not going to say very much about ~he· Speech from the Throne.

Men who are more intelligent than I am or could ever hope to be, possibly have already gone into every aspect of that speech, even in minute detail. I am content, however, that it is going to mean a wonderful thing for Newfound-

354 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS land and possibly before I finish this I will tell you why. !tis only natural, Mr. Speaker, that honourable members, when given an opportunity to shout their faces off, obvi­ ously would refer to their distrids. what has been done and what they hope to do and all such things. I am not going to devote too much time to the district of Bonavista SOuth, which I have the honour, (and 'i am proud ofit,) to represent in this honourable House.

I recall, Sir, last year when I stood up for_the first time as the representative of that district I painted a Very sordid picture, and even my honourable colleague friend the _honourable member for S_t. John's East lead me to make a little bit worse than what it was. But I am satisfied, Mr. Speaker, that great things have been accomplished dur­ ing the past year. Now, it is true I ha".e riot gone out for newspapers nor radio publicly nor television puplicit:y. I do not want that stuff.

I do not want my right hand to know what my left hand is doing at certain times, but I do want to doa good job, and that is my dedication. If I cannot do a good job for my district, I won't be in politics very long. Already, during the past year- (and they tell us there has been no money. The Gov­ ernment is broke and all these things) - already, during the past year, there have been some new roads built in the district of Bona vista South. I made one or two elei:tion promises. I do not mind confessing that.

I met the people of Port Blandford and told them if I were elected I would get a cause­ way and more than the causeway. "It won't be very long before I see your needs m_et." The causeway has been built. I was up there trying to get across two weeks before it was opened and after it was opened. I assure you I did visit the people in that area. I shall never forget what one old fellow said - "Captain Strickland, you are one honest politician. You made a promise and fulfilled ·it. Go back to St.John's. We will send for you when we want you.

The people of Terra Nova, you will recall, presented a petition last year to the House asking that a road be built to enable the people ofTerra Nova to get out and see the outside world. I am glad to be able to tell this Honourable House that already six of the eight miles have already been built, and they have a few dollars left yet for the other two miles. The other two miles have been bulldozed through, and shortly we hope will be com­ pleted. That is election promise No. 2 fulfil­ led.

The first time I travelled around Mus­ gravetown I discovered that the good peo­ ple ofMusgravetowri; Canning's Cove; and Bunyan's Cove1 every time they wanted to come to St. John's, had to come up around the "river head" and drive down across the bridge and up the Cabot Highway , and I discovered that by providing one mile of road at the head of Musgravetown, you could save an eight or ten mile drive around. I am happy, Mr. Speaker, to say that mile of road is already bulldozed through- Now I do not want my honoura­ ble colleagues on this side of the House to get jealous.

Some honourable member: There is no jealousy. Mr. Strickland: That is good. The people of Salvage had quite a problem on their hands. Tbere is a place called "Round Head" and believe me it is Round Head. It was a very dangerous_

section of the road. and at cer­ tain times of the year it was utterly impossi­ ble to travel over it, I was unable to persuade the Government this _year that this road should be done. It has already been done. In Happy Adventure they had a situaiion where merchants in the Upper Cove were trying to compete with merchants in the Lower Cove. The merchants from the Lower Cove COuld drive a truck right to their stores and discharge·go_ods and the poor beggars up in Upper Cove had to "spell it" up on their backs. I was not happy about the situation.

I want to say that has been remedied and the man in Upper Cove now has the same privilege as the nian in Lower Cove. That is another thing done. Nm\\ for my honourable friends in fornrn­ tioh on the other side of the House, I would like for them to take a trip to Bona vista now. They gave me a gentleribbing,ifl recall, last yearaboutthe Plate Cove Hills. I want to tell you, Mr. Speaker, if ever you saw a transformation-right around Plate Cove, Plate Cove Hills have been transformed, and there is no other name for it. Mr. Hollett: What place is that? Mr. Strickland: Plate Cove Hills. It is almost

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 355 unbelievable the work that three or four or a half dozen men could do.with a-few pieces of machinery·in such a little rocky area as the Plate Cove Hills. I am very happy about it. And we are going to take, I am sure, Mr. Speaker. Summerville Hills this year and see if ,ve can't flatten them down as well. These are only a few of the things done in one short year in the district of Bonavista South. The Community Council of Sandy Cove received Government assistance this year in order that they might pipe a water supply from the hills right down where it ca:n be easily obtained.

That has been done. Now, I made another election promise. I promised the people of King's Cove that, if elected, I would see, if it were possible, that they would have electricity extended to King's Cove. It took a little longer than an­ ticipated but, Mr. Speaker, I want to assure the House they have the lights down there now. Talk about correspondence. I am re­ ceiving twenty, thirty, forty letters a week. And I made a point, Mr. Speaker, (and I want to get this across,) to answer every letter I get.

I bang away at the typewriter until two o'clock in the morning in order to answer every letter I get from m}' con­ stituents. There is nothing too small and nothing too big. I make that point, and while I am in politics 1.am_going to keep it up. When I cannot do that I won't represent a district. The people of the Plate Cove area, Openhall, Red Cliff, are writing daily pray­ ing that electricity be extended to that area.

I am hoping to impress upon my leader that it is absolutely necessary that, in the very near future, it will become a reality. \Ve are hoping that a regional hospital will be huilt in the area before too long. When the time is opportune it will come, I believe. I will say that in the District of Bonavista South we have one of the richest fanning areas in the whole of Newfoundland, around Mus­ gravetown and Lethbridge. All these things ~ave been done in one short year. The whole area has been,transformed.

I_ took a newspaper up _the other day and one man had the audacity to say, Stricklanc\ has done nothing for Bona vista South. I would like to meet him again on a political platform, and I hope I will. Premier Smallwood: You probably will. Mr. Strickland: The people of Keels were using water hardly fit to drink fora number of years. We have that situation im'proved considerably. It is not perfect, by any means, but we think we know the answer and we are hoping this year to continue the improvenieht. The "pothead" whale opera­ tion in Southern Bay has been of great economic benefit to the people in the vicin­ ity.

In fact it has two benefits, the mo_ney the people earn while engaged in the operation plus the fact they are getting stamps on their books and this winter will reap the benefit of that in unemployment insurance. I only hope and pray we can extend that operation to the fullest extent possible, and I think we will. Now, Mr. Speaker, all the problems have not been solved - My, oh my, how many there are. Mr. M.M. Hollett: (Leader of the Opposi­ tion): They want a wharf in Southern Bay. Mr. Strickland: And they will get it when we get a Liberal Government in Ottawa. Mr. Hollett: You had .one there a long while.

Premier Smallwood: And also built a good many wharves. Mr. Strickland: In Bonavista South too, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Hollett: I am sorry, it was the wrong name - Across from Southern Bay, Char­ leston. Have they a wharf there? I ask as a point of order. Mr. Strickland: Not a Federal Government wharf-No. Mr. Hollett: Thank you. Mr. Strickland: Mr. Speaker, I am coming to the fisheries. I think I have the hondllr to represent one of the largest fishing settle­ ments in the whole of Newfoundland. I will not say the largest, but very dose as a runner up. And there are some problems attached to the fishery in Bonavista.

Some of the problems the people have to solve for them­ selves. One of the problems associated with the fisheries in Bonavista is that we haVe three unions in the town ofBonavista, if you

356 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS call it town. and all have a direct bearing on the fishery operation of that community. I suggest, Mr. Speaker, that is not in the best interest of anybody. It is not for me to say which union they will have there. I only hope and pray the time will come speedily when they make up their minds and get one union. because if there is an}thing in the world going to destroy uionism is unionism itself. Now. Mr.

Speaker, in connection with the fishery-My honourable colleague, the Minister of fisheries, sitting right behind me, has forgotten possibly more than ever I knew about the fishery. The honourable member for White Bay North knows some~ thing about it too.

But I was a little bit sur­ prised at the honourable member suggest­ ing here on the floor of the House the other day when speaking about NAFEL. - (Now I have no brief for NAFEL in the world, but the suggestion has been made, and I cannot agree with it) - that NAFEL should be abolished and a marketing board set up comprised of possibly some of the present members of NAFEL plus - Mr. Cheeseman: Who said that? Mr. Strickland: - Plus some of the mem­ bers of NAFEL, of the Provincial Govern­ ment, of the fisheries. That is perfectly al­ right. I agree.

Plus some of the representa­ tion for the Fishermen's Union, That is al­ right, I agree with that. But that is as far as I will go. The suggestion that representatives from the mainland trade be incorporated in a Committee, if you wish to call it that, for the exporting of Newfoundland codfish, I cannot see at all because even though we are supposed to be Canada, let me tell this Ijonourable House that the people who are interested in the fisheries in Nova Scotia and elsewhere are Nova Scotians first and Newfoundlanders second-And don't ever forget it. If you do forget it, you will make a tragic mistake. Mr.

Cheeseman: Mr. Speaker, I wonder would the honourable member concede to me for a moment. If he is coupling my name with these suggestions I want to make it dear I made no such suggestions. Mr. Strickland: No, not you, Sir. Mr. Speaker: Perhaps the honourable member would clear up that point. Mr. Strickland, Mr. Speaker, I did not ac­ cuse the honourable minister. I said; "the suggestion has been made." I did not say it was by members of tltis House or anybody else. But I trust everybody reads the news­ papers.

I agree that it is absolutely necessary to have some kind of marketing board for our Newfoundland salt codfish and as well our fresh fish. But for goodness sake, do not let us forget the fact that we should put Newfoundland first. Inspection is another headache. And let me say, Mr.Speaker, Newfoundlanders are not always all to blame for the bad fish going to our markets, The fishermen are not ahvays to ~lame. I have seen good fish going in and being beaten to a pulp in.the packing pro­ cess. The fishermen are not to blame for that.

I have seen men heading up casks, arid they take a fish and rip off the fin and tail and everything else. Then, when the cas~ reaches its destination in a foreign Jllarket and they lift the cover, they get one, fish broken up into fifteen and nventy pieces. The fishermen are not to blame for that. If good fish is made let us keep it good, and when it is packed, let it be packed right, You will recall, Mr. Speaker, that a couple of years ago I happened to be in Sydney on a little mission for the Government. Whi1e there, I called at a certain merchanes warehouse.

He had bought forty barrels of Newfoundland turbot, marked No. I.° tiu­ bot. Now this is the story. The turbot was callght in August. It was inspected by cer­ tain Feder:al inspectors in November. It was sold on December. I suggest, Mr. Speaker th.it no turbot in the cold weathCr_will go bad, from November tO December. It reached Sydney in early January and fifty percent of the turbot was not fit for hµman consumptiori. I took my pocket knife and ripped down to the bohe of a dozen, and the odor was enough to make you step back­ ward.

It was not a month before that il was certified by the Newfoundland inspector, and I know the man - then the other fifty percent was sub-standard. I wilL take my oath-(and I have caught a lot of turbot in my day, with my father) - I will take my oath that that did more to hurt the New­ foundland turbot market than anything I can say in this House can do - Federal inspection- It is time for those in authority

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 357 to wake up; The :Fishermen are getting the blame for far too many things, That is the kind of thing we have to contend with in our fisheries. and that is the reason why our fishc·rmen are getting Sudt small returns for the \\.·ork they do --things like that. I did write the man who shipped the turbot from Newfoundland a very strong letter, and I suggested he hold the turbot right ,vhen they were, and I asked the de­ partment here to send up another inspector and let him see what this brother inspector had done, My suggestion was not ca_rried ou,t.

The fish has never been sold to this day. It was all dumped, and somebody was the loser of several hundred dollars on it. I think it is time for the country to know of t_hese things, Now, Mr. _Speaker, I am not going to say anything else about the fishery. It isa problem somebody will have to solve if we want young men to go to the fishery. The quicker we solve it the better for JI con­ cerned. , There is another problem in my district, i.e., the problem that has been created by the National Park. Nobody is to blame.

I have some constituents in Charleston and Can­ nings Cove, possibly a dozen or more saw­ mill operators. One man wrote to me the other day, "I value_what I have there in saws _and what haveRyou, at thirty-five thousand dollars." He told me how many years it took to build it up. Now, because of the estab­ lishment of the National Park, no logs nor wood is to be cut, and he is now without a job. I know the Provincial Government are aware of this as are the Feder.ii govern­ ment. I do_not care what Government is in Ottawa, they are all aware - and I think that in the near future something will be d'one, , Mr.

Speaker, I thirik that is enough con­ cerning- my district. There are plenty of other things I cquld say, but I am satisfied that we made great strides dming the year, and I want to thank the honourable minis­ ters and their deputy ministers and assistant deputy ministers and all others connected with every department. for the comtesy shown during the year and all they helped me to acc0111plish1 because without their as­ sistance nothing could be down. or very lit­ tle- and that goes for everybody from the Honourable the Premier down. It has been a great year. Now, Mr.

Speaker, I have to defend this Government's policy and programs. It is only natural that I should do so, and, I am going to be c:onsdentious about it. We have been told time and time again. almost with~ out number. that this Government inher­ ited from former :Governments 'SO many millions of dollars, \vhich is true - That thing is played up. But I wonder what else did we have coupled with the millions of dollars? I suggest, Mr. Speaker, we had illit­ eracy and poverty of Newfoundlanders al.: most beyond description. That was thrown into the bag with the millions of dollars. We do not hear very much about that.

And that is what this present Government had to do, cure a lot of the illnesses and sicknesses pas­ sed over to u_s as a legacy of former Go_v­ ernments. That is the reason why a lot of the millions of dollars have 'gone into new sc\10ols and new hospitals and welfare programs, and a lot of other progressive programs. We have been told often that this Govern­ ment is unfit to rule because there was ex­ travagance. I ,vould like to compare that statement with another Government that I know of; and I am not politicing now for anybody whatever.

The people of Canada will decide on March 31, and whateverJt is alright with me. I will say "Amen" to it any time. But I know another Government that came into power with a surplus of five hundred million dollars not too long ago, and I suggest if they brought down a budget today they would budget for a deficit of five hundred millions; and my argument would be just as sound as the argwnent of the people who criticized this Government, ifJ suggested that because of their expenditure they are unfit to govern. I am not going to take that argument. I am only making the comparison.

They spent the money.-Sorne­ body has benefited bemuse they spent the money. And that is what I suggest about this Liberal government. They spent a lot of money, Sir. They had the legacy they inher­ ited from the former Government plus other millions of dollars. Who got the be­ nefit of it? Mr. Hollett: Who? Mr. Strickland: Newfoundlanders, the big bulk of it-and I challenge any man to con-

358 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS vince me othenvise. Mr. Speaker, this Gov­ ernment has been criticized for its lack of vision. I suggest that any honourable gent­ leman. or any man or woman who criticizes this Government for lack of vision, should go and get their eye glasses changed quickly. I will tell you why.

I believe with all my heart that this Liberal Government is conscious of one tremendous fact, and it is a fact that a lot of people overlook~good· health for our people, 'good homes for otir people, good environment for our people-all must be woven together in order that we might have the real basis for real living. That is the reason why this Pro­ vincial Government or Liberal Government has had such a tremendous welfare prog­ ram, health program, educational program all woven together.

The Go_vernmcnt has been trying to prepare the Newfoundland people for something they have been dep­ rived of for possibly hundreds of years, and that is "real living.'' Mr. Speaker, what con­ stitutes real living? Somebody would say it is just having a good academic education. I don't agree with that. As far as I am con­ cerned, it is not th'e whole tru_th but only part of the truth. What is a go,odedllC:ation? I know a lot of people who have a good academic education but are as unfit for real living as I am to rule China. Education can never be judged entirely be arademic stan­ dards.

Education is only one of the elements that constitute real living; and I suggest that if education is divorced from basic moral and spiritual principles, and not based on them, education falls far short of·many of the requirements for real life and real liv­ ing. Education on a primary and university level only do so much. Complete education is far more than that. It is a job for the schools, the Sunday Schools, the Church and the home.

I was very much thrilled a few Sundays ago looking at a television shaw, when one of our great native New­ foundlanders who knows what he is talking about as far as education is concerned was asked by Don Jamieson "Where does educa­ tion for the real man begin?" He answered without any hesitation: "Right in his mother's anus." And I agree tvith him. And I suggest, Mr. Speaker, that this present Government knows that. That is the reason why they do not spend all their money on new schools alone. That is not enough. They know something different than that is required.

The Honourable Minister of Health just a ,few days ago stood on the floors of this House and made a statement. I very much doubt that.any of us realized the significance of what he said. It was .one of the greatest statements, as far as I am con­ cerned, which have been made in a long time. Here are some of the things he said: "For children under sixteen years of age free hospital treatment"-It does not make any difference whether that child is a hundred miles from here or right in St.

John's or elsewhere-For children under sixteen years of age free hospital treatment, all diagnostic tests free .ind x-ray, tests, all medicines and dresSings in hospital free. We were paying through the nose in years gone by for a Jot of these things. Now we have diagnosis and x-ray for all outpatients, and all medical bills in hospital. Mr. Speaker, I tell you this is going over big in Newfoundland. I suggest a lot of the mothers of this country appreciate that, and thank God for the Liberal Government for bringing this into being.-That is only one of the things that the Government has done.

That is one of the things that some of the millions of dollars have gone into. The Honourable Minister of Municipal Af­ fairs and Supply, sometime ago, stood on the floor of this House and told us about a building scheme tha_t the Government :has in mind for the building of low cost rental houses. Why? Why? Because the Govern­ ment has vision enough to see that. no mat­ ter how good a person's education is he cannot be all he should be unless he has a decent home to live in. And I suggest. 1-fr.

Speaker, living conditions in this PrOvince prior to Confederation defied description, and this Liberal Government has been con­ scious of this. They might havewasted·some money-undoubtedly they have, and they will ,vaste more, and I suggest if you get any other Government in On the floor of this House, or anywhere else, they will waste it too-Lack of vision-I suggest, Mr. Speaker, that this Governffient has had more vision than all of the Governments of the past fifty years, and that is the reason why we have Term 29.

If the Govemriients of past years had as much vision 'as this Government, there would have been no need for Tenn 29 because this Province

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 359 would not be fifty years behind the other Maritime Provinces. The Governments of the past had been so blind tbey had not been able to see straight 1 and that is th_e condi­ tions this Government inherited and that is the reason why they had to spend millions; and all credit to them. Mr. Speaker, I am going to quote a state­ ment written by a converted Tory not very long ago. He said: "The Premier does not have to establish a third mill to become one of the great men of this Island.

He won that when we went into Confederation with the rest of the Provinces of Canada." But if he achieves this long-wished-for advance in our economy he wiU have achieved the highest honour that can be bestowed upon him. I suggest, Mr. Speaker, the honoura­ ble gentleman on the opposite side of the House should say "Amen" to that, because they know iris true. Mr. Hollett: Who is the author of that? Mr. Strickland: Again I suggest the Hon­ ourable Leader of the Opposition would read this newspaper-That is where I took it from, Mr. Hollett: I will read it tomorrow, would lo've to read it. Mr .. Strickland: Now, Mr.

Speaker, before closing these few remarks, rambling though they might be, I would like to say a word about the proposed harbour improvement for St. John's. Now get this straight, and I want honourable members to get this straight-I am not against harbour im­ provement. It is long overdue; but I am a little bit worried. I took time out some time ago to go down to the Board ofTrade build­ ing and I must say I was received with all the courtesy that could be possibly extended to me 1 and Mr. Renouf bent over backwards to show me whatever he had there concerning the proposed improvements.

Unfortu­ nately, that day the large scale plan was at the Memorial University and I did not see it. Sometime after that I took my honourable colleague, the member for Labrador South, with me and we went down again. We were then fortunate enough to see the large scale plan there. And I discovered that; and this has worried me a little bit-We have today in Newfoundland eighty or ninety coasting vessels and sometimes there are twenty-five in the Harbour of St. John's at one time, averaging about one hundred feet. I disco­ vered that right up in the west end there is one

section cut out approximately five hundred feet long where you,can tie up five coasters at one time if they are a hundred feet or less. There is another

section ap­ proximately four hundred feet with a tie up possible for four. That is nine. What if we have nineteen in the harbour at the same time? Where are we to put the rest? I suggest, Mr. Speaker, tbat the powers that be, before they put this plan into reality have a good hard look at it again, because our coasting skippers and owners can't af­ ford to lose two, three, four and five days in the Harbour of SL John's waiting to get a place to tie up to load goods. Most of them lose time enough in Sydney. That is all I have to say about it. Mr.

Speaker, I am happy to have had this opportunity of saying a few words. I en­ dorse what the Government is doing, and I am hoping, if God spares us, to be back another year and to have far greater things to report. Thank you. (Applause from both sides). On motion, the report of the Committee set up to draft an Address in Reply rece_h,ed and adopted.

Honourable the Minister of Health Usks leave to introduce a Bill, "An Act Furtherto Amend the Health and Public Welfare Act." On motion, Bill read a first time, ord~i-ed read a second time on tomorrow: Honourable the Minister of Municipal Af: fairs and Supply ask leave to introduce a Bill, "An Act To Amend the Department of Municipal Affain. and Supply Act." On motion, Bill read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow: Honour­ able the Minister of Public \Vorks asks lea.Ve to introduce a Bill, '"

An Act to Amend the Department of Public Works Act, 1957." On motion, Bill read a first time, ordfred read a second time on tomorrow, Honourable the Minister of Finance asks leave to introduce a Bill "An Act Further to Amend the Civil Service Act". On motion, Bill read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow. On motion that the House go into Commit­ tee of the Whole on Bills, Nos. 21, 18, 19. 24

360 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEOINGS and 26 and 27: Mr. Speaker left the Chair. Mr. Clarke, Chairman of the Committee of the Whole: Committee of the Whole on Bill, "An Act To Incorporate the City of Comer Brook and For Other Purposes in Connection Therewith: Mr. Chairman: Clause No. (49). Hon. L. R. Curtis (Attorney Gener.ii): Mr. Chairman, I would move the dause ·as is. I did have in mind stiggesting an amendment but I read it over and don't think it is neces­ sary. On motion, Clause (49) Carried. Motjon that the Committee report having this BilJ with some amendments carried.

Committee of the Whole on Bill, "An Act Further to Amend the Act 5 Edward VII Chap. 19 entitled "An Act To Encourage the Manufacture of Pulp and Paper in this Colony.:' On motion, Clauses (

I) through (3) carried. Hon. W.J. Keough (Minister of Mines and Resources): Mr. Chairman, in Clause (4) (

h) I am going to ask the Ho_nourable the At­ torney General to move an addition to sub- ,

section (

b) after the word "elsewhere" in that subsection to add the words "in Canada." I am asking that at the suggestion of the Auditor General, to make it uniform with th0se in common practice across Canada. On motion, Clause (4) as amended Carried. Mr. Hollett: Under Clause (4) is that usual that the Government must a_pprove the au­ ditors of any _fir~ of accountants. Mr. Curtis: Well it is because, Mr. Chair­ ITlant we also agree to accept their audiL So that if the Government is bound on one hand to accept the audit of the auditors, at least they might have the privilege of ap­ proving the at,Iditors.

One goes with the other. If we had the right to refuse_ the audit, we would not care who did it. But when we pledge ourselves as we do, then we want to know whose services we are to ac­ cept. Mr. Keough: I might add too, that I have a copy of an agreement entered into in July 1934 between the Commissioner of Natural Resources and the company whereby the company agreed that its accounts be au­ dited annually by a firm of auditors ap­ proved by the.Commission of Government, and the Commission of Government agrees they would accept the certificate by these auditors. That was in 1934.

We insert, of course. that the audit now be subject to the approval· of the Auditor General of New­ foundland. Mr. Hollett: I just made the remark. I thought auditors -,vere more or less bonded in any case. Mr. Curtis: Not necessarily. Mr. Hollett: I thought they were. Motion that the Committee report having passed this Bill with some amendments, carried: Committee of the Whole on Bill,"

An Act to Amend the Local Government Act, 1956." On motion clauses I through, 13 carried. Mr. G. R. Renouf (St. John's South): Mr. Chairman, there is an explanation I would like on that subsection (2) "Where a per.;on lets or sub-lets to another person the whole or any part of a house or other building, for the purpose of this section, to be carrying on a business and is liable for the payment of the business tax in respect of the letting and sub--letting." I was wondering if there might be a dariger of double taX:ation.

There are residents who take in a boarder, who will come under the business tax-in thC as­ sessmeht of a municipality this is going to create some confusion. ' Hon. B.J. Abbott (Minister of Supply): Mr. Chairman, that is what the amendmeritis, to make clear that persons renting h9uses br renting buildings will have to pay bllSiness tax. Mr. Renouf: Apart from the system whereby it is based on increased assessment it becomes, under this, a business tax? Mr. Abbott: That is right. On motion, Clauses (14) through (24) car­ ried; Motion, that the Committee report having

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 361 passed this Bill without- amendment, car­ ried. Committee of the Whole on Bill. "an-Act to Amend the Department of Highways Act." On motion, dause (1) carriedf l\lr. J. G. Higgins (St. John.'s East): Mr. Chairman, this Clause (2)-Section 52 of the Highways Department Act-or the proposed

section 52-provides that on any premises where business is carried on a plain lettered sign showing the name. busi~ ness descriptions and business of the owner or occupier of the premises say be erected, or kept up. q,nd where,a gasoline station is operated q~~ premises, the sign man in addition sHlflV;--any other words, letters or symbols, but the erection or keeping up ofa sigo, the type and size of.the sigo, the letter­ ing thereof and the additions thereto of any words, letters or symbols shall be subject to the prior approval in writing of the ,minis, ter.

What I am concerned about, Sir, is that it is a matter of which we have knowledge-on all these establishments, particularly restaurants and taverns, you have neon signs. There is a local Neon Sign Company employing some ten Newfound­ landers, It is the only one in the Country doing this Neon Sign business. I have been talking to aTouple of people working there and they yisualize that if this is going to mean no neon signs are to be allowed, they ~re going to be forced out of business. It goes oq: fo say the "Minister" can approve a _sign.

But does that mean we are not to hav~ any more neon signs or only put up neon signs with the permission of the MinistC'r? l\lr. Curtis: Mr. Chairman, I don't know whether a plain letter sign includes a neon sign or not. A plain letter sign showing the name, business description, arid business of the owner or occupier of the premises. I do not see why it should not indudeneon signs. I would not say it includes neon signs. Cer­ tainly a neon letter sign. Mr. Higgins: It is common all over. Mr. Curtis: I will tell you what we might do, Mr.

Chairman, we might pass this commjt­ tee stage but hold it up at third reading until the Minister of Highways is here and we find out just what he meant in asking for this. I really do not know. l\lr. Hollett: Mr. Chainnan, what does the GOverflrnent see wrong with- put_ting up signs fqr advertising-It is done all across Canada. Mr. Curtis: That is the reason why it shq.uld not be done, Mr. Hollett: Are you not doing something to restrain trade-Why prevent people from advertising? Mr. Curtis: I think we should hold up the third reading and see just what the Minister has in mind. Dr. J. M.

McGrath (Minister of Health): Might l remind tbe Committee of the poem- "! think that I shall never see A poem lovely as a tree, Perhaps, unless the billboards fall, I will never see a tree at all," Mr. Hollett: There are not ma'ny trees along the highways. Mr. Curtis: There is a difference o_f_oP,in­ ioft, A lot of people think these signs a nllis-­ apce,_ They certainly spoil the scenes, arid Jt seems to me- Mr. Higgins: What sigos are you talking about now? Mr. Hollett: There is one oiit there,juston tbe highway, right by tbe roadside-'.'Death on the Highroads." l\lr.

Curtis: My honourable friend might have a word. He was travelling with -the Governor General when here. l\lr. Abbott: Yes, Mr. Chairman, I hap­ pened to be driving with the present Gov­ ernor General, the Honourable Vincent Massey. He drew my attention to some signs not very far from the highroad "Chew Wrigley's Spearmint." Mr. Curtis: You must not quote the product here. l\lr. Abbott: And he said: "there is nothing I detest more than to see such advertisements

362 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS ?n the hig~ways." Now n'?t some notice say­ mg you will find an eatmg establishment five miles beyond this point or a motel. That is a different matter. But where people are advertising their products, their wares--"No"- Mr. Curtis: It does not spoil tbe scenery. Mr, Higgins: But think of the weary travel• ler who sees in the sky-"India two miles ahead or Drink Dominion." Mr. Curtis: That is what we want to stop. Mr. Hollett: I think it is very unwise, Mr. Chairman. But you have done many unwise things. this Government, ht spite of the honourable member Tor Bonavista South.

On motion, Clause (2) Carried. Motion that the Committee Report having passed the Bill without ainendmeht 1 car­ ried: Committee of the Whole on Bill, "An Act Further to Amend the Highways Traffic Act." , On motion, c1ause (1) carried; Mr.

Hollett: (e) "To indicate maximum of minimum sp~ed limits in any a11:a or on any part of any highway so that vehicles .driven faster than the maximum or slo\verthan the minimum speed limit indicated shall be raken to have failed to conform to the indi­ cation given by the sign." " .. .shall be taken to have failed to conform to the indication given by the sign"--! can well see where the driver of a motor vehide may not be able to reach the speed indicated due to a motor defect or something wrong. He is then liable to a fine. Mr.

Curtis: That would be a defence: If a man had a flat tire or one of his cylinders gave out-Would not that be a defence? I don't think there is any need to provide for that. I don't think it is mandatory for a magistrate to convict, Mr. Chairman, every offence does not necessarily mean subse­ quent pros·ecution. Lots of us every day un­ wittingly break a law-So that could be a good defence. If a car is trying to get home, for instance, after having some engine trouble, or even if perhaps getting home with a poor tire and just cannot speed. These are all matters of defence.

On motion, Clauses (2) through (4) carried. Mr. Curtis: There is an amendment to clause (5), Mr. Chairman, which I wish to ask the Honourable the Minister ofWelfare to move: Subsection 62A-Insert the words "subject io this section" before the word "except." There is also another amendment, Mr. Chairman, which I would ask the Honoura­ ble MinisterofWelfare to move1 and that is a new section. {9)- You will remember that when this Bill was being given second read­ ing I suggest that wau a bit awkward.

Any of us might go out on the highroad any day and park on a piece of propeIID", unfenced, and we might have supper tlll,i:e and find ourselves liable to a twenty-five dollar fine. So I have asked the draftsmen of my de­ partment to rewrite or to add a subparag­ raph (9) which reads as follows: "This sec• tion does not apply to land outside the City of St. John's, as defined in the City of St.

John's Act, unless the land is surrounded by a fence or unless the owner by signs erected on the land or othenvise indicates that the land is private or that parking thereon is prohibited or restricted." Mr; Chairman, I think that cures the point that was raised at second reading. On motion. clause (5) as amended carried; Mr. Speaker, resumed the Chair. Mr. Clarke: Mr. Speaker, the Commj_ttee of the Whole have considered the matters to them _referred and directed me to report Bills Nos. 21, 18, and 27 with some amend­ ments. On motion, report received Bills ordered read a third time on tomorrow. Mr. Clarke: Mr.

Speaker, the Committee of the Whole have considered Bills Nos. 24, and 26 directed me to report same without amendment. On motion, report received, Bills ordered read a third time on tomorrow: Third Reading of Bill, "An Act Further to Amend the Revenue and Audit Act." On motion, Bill read a third time, ·ordered passed and title to be as on the Order Paper. Third Reading of Bill, "An Act Respecting the Payment of Bounties on the Rebuilding and Repairing ofFishing and Coasting Ves­ sels."

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 363 Mr. Curtis: Mr. Speaker, I am not asking that this Bill be now read a third time. I am asking that the third reading be not pro­ ceeded with, but that this Bill be referred back to Committee of the Whole on tomor­ row. Motion, that this Bill be recommitted to Committee of the \Vhole House on tomor­ row, carried. Mr. Curtis: Mr. Speaker, I move that the remaining Orders of the Day do stand de­ ferred, and that the House at its rising do adjourn until tomorrow, Friday at three of the clock. On motion, all further Orders of the Day stand deferred.

On motion the Houlie at its rising adjourned until tomorrow Friday at three of the cloCk. Friday, February 14th, 1958 (Afternoon Session) The house met at three o'clock. Hon. J. R. Smallwood (Premier): Mr. Speaker, when I invited my colleague, the p~sent Minister of Health, to enter the Cabinet and to take over the direction of the great Department of which he had been the distinguished Assistant Deputy Minister, I did So because I was very anxious to formu~ late, introduce and carry out a great new public health policy for the people of New­ foundland.

My honourable colleague ac­ cepted the invitation on that basis, and, in close collaboration with his own associates in the Department of Health, has since then been drafting the details of that new public health policy. Part of the policy I have al­ ready announced. That is the Children's Health Plan. Under this plan, every child in Newfoundland, up to the age of sixteen, wiU receive free hospital, diagnostic, medical, surgical and medicinal care.

Extensions will be made to this plan from time to time, and it is our fond hope that the Children's Health Plan, in the next few years, will have the effect- of raising the standard of indi­ vidual health in Newfoundland to a height never before attained on the Island or- in Lsbrador. I wish today to announce the next step for­ ward in our Health Program. This stage, which has been worked out by my colleague, the Minister of Health, and his staff, has been considered by the Cabinet and given the Cabinet's very cordial approval.

It is a program to build seven new General Hospi­ tals in th_is Province; six new Childien's Hospitals; and the enlargement of seven of the existing Cottage Hospitals. The new General Hospitals will be located as follows:-Corner Brook-seventy five beds; Grand Falls-seventy-five beds; Gander-eighty beds; Clarenvillc-,,fifty beds; Bell Island-fifty beds; Baie Verte Peninsula-thirty beds; St.

John's (Mental Hospital)-five hundred beds: The new _Children's Hospitals will be lo­ cated as follows:-Corner Brook-forty beds; Grand Falls-fifty beds; Gander­ -thirty beds; Clarenville-twenty-five beds; Bell Island-twenty-five beds; St. John's-two hundred beds: The existing Cottage Hospitals that will be enlarged are as follows:-,Old Perlicanj Placentia; Fogo; Brookfield; Bonne Bay; Stephenville Crossing; and Burin. In addition to these new hospitals and ex­ tensions to existing hospitals, residences ,viU be built for Medical Doctors at;-Brnokfield; Hermitage; St.

Joseph's and they will be renovated at Burin, St. George's and Stephenville Crossing. Additional Medical Doctors are to be stationed at:-Jeffrey's in St. George's Dis­ trict; St. Lawrence; Port Saunders; Old Per­ lican; Hampden; Stephenville Crossing and Brookfield. In addition to these seven addi­ tional Medical Doctors, many others will be added accordingly as the new hospitals or extensions to hospit~Is are completed. In addition to these new hospitals and ex­ tensions to hospitals. Mr.

Speaker, the Gov­ ernment decided this morning to proceed at once to call tenders from contractors for the construction of the new two million dol­ lar Cancer Wing for the General Hospital in St.John's. The excavation and construction of the foundation -walls have already been completed for this new Cancer \Ving, the steel is now being erected, and the necessary backfill is about to be done. We hope to complete the construction of this great new Cancer Wing in about twelve monthsJrom the awarding of the contract a few weeks from now. Mr. Speaker, when these seven new General

364 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS Hospitals, and these six new Children•s Hospitals have been built, and th_ese seven existing Cottage Hospitals have been con­ sidera~Iy enlarged, it will mean an addition of one thousand, two hundred new hospital beds (altogether) in Newfoundland. We have three thousand, five hundred beds at the present time, and one thousand, two hundred added to three, thousand five hundred will, I think the House will admit, be a very great step forward in the medical program of this Province. In addition to these new hospitals and hos­ pital extensions, Mt'.

Speaker, we 'have de­ cided to erect a new three million dollar Nurses• Home for the Gerieral Hospital at St~John's. This great new residence will give excellent aCcommodation for some three hundred' nursi"ng studefits at the General Hospital. We intent! also to spend a consid­ erable sum of money to rriake i_mportant alterations to the Regional Labratory of the West Coast Sanatorium in Corner Brook. Mr. Speaker, this great new hospital prog­ ram will cost twenty million dollars.

We will get some of this money by way of hospital gr.in ts from the Government of Canada, as we have been receiving them for the last nine years. We wm receive s_ome money from private companies and _the public, in the cases of Grand Falls and Bell Island. From these sources, we will probably re­ ceive more than three million dollars al­ together, leaving seventeen million dollars as the part the Newfoundland Government will ·contribute. I am, of cours~, particularly _proud of our Children's Hospital Plan. There will be six of these, at St. John's, Corner Brook, Grand Falls, Gander, Clarenville and Bell Island.

They will have a total of three hundred and seventy beds, and, when they are provided, Newfoundland wiU at least have made a be­ ginning at seeing that the children of New­ foundland are given as good an opportun­ ity to have good health and medical care aS any children are getting in Canada"today. When the estimates and Btidget are brought down, later in the present SesSion, we will ask the house to approve a vote of two and a quarter million dollars tp be spent on this great new hospital program in the coming financial year, commencing on April 1st.

In the year after this one the sum will have to be very much larger, and it will have to increase steadily until the full twenty n:illi?n dollars will have been ex·pended, w1thm five years from the present time. That is the total period within which we plan to construct these fourteen new hospi­ tal'i and .extend these seven Cottage Hospi~ tals. I thmk, Mr. Speaker, that this is proba­ bly one of the greatest Health and Hospital Programs launched anywhere in Canada for a good many years.' Hon. M. M. Hollett (Leader of the Opposi­ tion): Mr.

Speaker, if I may I would like to ask the Honourable the Prem'ier a question on that very important statement and one which we are all very glad to hear....:._ This plan has been worked out, I take it, in con­ sult:£ttion with the Medical Association-I mean. it is such a huge plan and wiii have such beneficial effect upon our people-I take it the Government has taken advantage of the advice of the Medical Association? Premier Smallwood: Mr.

Speaker, no, any­ thing that involves the co~operation of the Medical Profession, anything that depend, on their co-operation, suc_h as the operation of the Children's Health Scheme, would be introduced, of course, only after careful consideration and consultation with the medica(profession. But we do not feel, as a Government, that we need to consult with any private individ_uals nor parties when we are deciding whether or not we will con­ struct Government Hospi,tals. Three of these are Government Hospitals and ,ye are constructing them practically. aU al _public cost, particularly all.

We do not feel we need to consult with any private individuais in that matter, Nm._v, that is not meant for one moment as a discourtesy t~ the medfc.il pro­ fession, but we just do not feel the fliedical profession, as an association has any right to be consulted. Having said that may I add this:-My col­ league the Minister of Health, who is him­ selfa highly respected memberofthe medi­ cal profession, will unquestionably have dis­ .cussed the matter, unofficially {as man to man, dottor to doctor) with more than one member of the profession. There is no doubt of that.

I would say it .is extremely likely, also, that the Deputy Minister of Health, who is also a highly respected member of the medical profession, has

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 365 likewise discussed the matter ( off the record and unofficially) with various medical doctors-But the Government as such, and the D_epartment as such. have not felt any necessity to consult with the medical profes­ sion in deciding whether or not to proceed with the construction of public hospitals any more than will they consult with the legal profession if they decided to build a new court house. · Mr. J. G. ffiggiris (St. John's East): Except for staff. Mr. Smallwood: That would be a matter of getting judges.

We have never had any real difficulty in getting members of the legal profession for judges. Presenting Petitions: Hon. S.J. Hefferton (Minister of Welfare): Mr. Speaker, I. beg leave to present a peti­ tion from the residents of Dildo in the Dis­ trict of Trinity South. The petitioners draw attention to what-can be described as an access road leading from their settlement, some two or three miles further in, where th_ey have been in the habit, for years, of cutting and securing their lumber require­ nient for wharves and fuel.

It has been poi_ntec;I out that this road has become al­ n1ost impassablf;:', and the petition asks that attention be given to it during the ensuing year. Mr. Speaker, I support the prayer of the petition, and ask leave to have it tabled and referred to the Department to which it re­ lates. On motion, petition received for re­ ference to the Department to which it re­ lates. Mr. G. Nightingale (St. John's North): Mr. Speaker, I decided to present a petition for a place which we very seldom hear about, St. John's North. I might say these people of St. John's North have been there a considera­ ble time.

It is a place in what we call "the fringe of the city", Anthony Avenue. Anthony Avenue is presently impass..7.ble. Forty motorists petitioned t\Vo years ago, and as a result of the petition were privileged to· have a very thin layer of gravel spread over the surface. However this has long since disappeared -and now only the potholes remain. The petition states--"\Ve trust our representative wiU intercede for_ us to have this deplorable condition attended to as quickly·as_possible.:• Now, Mr. Speaker, I might say Anthony Avenue has no name marked up.

If-you went in there you would not recognize it It is almost out to Mundy Pond on the back. with the entrance full of rocks and in a very deplorable condition. I have listened to a preview of medical projects here. I wish to offer my congratulations. But I have always been a great believer that prevention is bet­ ter than cure. ln that area we have the big­ gest cess-pool ·in North America. I actually saw a man empty his garbage in the river.

Prevention, as--most doctors will agreet is better than cure. '\Vhen presenting this peti­ tion, l would like the medical bodies to look into that condition, to see the houses there and also clean up that cess-pool called "Mundy Pond". On motion;petition received forrefcrral __ to the Department to which it relates. Mr. G. R. Renouf (St. John's South): From most of the residents of Maddox Cove, Mr. Speaker, I have a petition requesting some attention be given to the road leadiqg fn;,.tll Petty Harbou.r to Maddox Cove.

It is nolby any means a luxury road the residents re­ quest, but rather sOme protectiOn ffom ihe dangerous situation that exists there, where the road winds around a·prec:ipitouS cliff,·in some places two.huodred feet high. Where there are children going to school ·at Petty Harbour, and going ha.ck and forth " through Petty Harbour, it is ·considered· very dangerous to have an unguarded cliff road. 111ey appreciate the work the Department of Highways did some time back in safeguarding a crevice that had nm almost completely across the road.

They appreci­ ate very much what ,vas done iri November to rectify that particular spot, but they do request that a little safeguard or railing be erected for their pers·onal protection along that way. In suppmting the petition, Mr. Speaker. I ask it be placed on the Table of the house and referred to the Department to which it relates. On motion, peti_tion received for referral to the Department to which it relates.

366 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS Mr. Hollett: Mr. Speaker. I have the hon­ our to present two petitions. As both peti­ tions are related to the same subject, I pres­ ent them at the same time. One is from the people of Long Harbour, Placentia Bay, one hundred and eighteen people, and the other is from ninety-five people who signed their names, Arlington Heights, Pl\'lcentia Bay. Bath the petitions request that their settlement be included in any extension of electrical power in that area.

The one from Long Harbour, says they are less than twenty miles from the point where electrical power is now available, and conse­ quently they think that it would not be dif­ ficult to extend the electricity. Mr. Smallwood: Twenty miles? Mr. Hollett: Yes, twenty miles. Itis less than twenty miles from where electrical power is now aVailable, the settlement of Chapel Arm. They feel that, under the circums­ tances, the extension is a simple matter. The people of Arlington Heights are in a much similar position. As I said, there are one hundred and eighteen signatures to the other. I have much pleasure, Mr.

Speaker, in sup­ porting their petitions and ask they be laid on the Table of the house and referred to the Department to which they relate. On motion, petitions received f0r referral to the Department to which they rel.ate. Presenting Reports of Standing and Select Committee; None. Giving Notice of Motion: None. Giving Notice of Questions: Notice of questions (on tomorrow) given by Mr. Hollett. ORDERS OF THE DAY: Second Reading of a Bill, "An Act Further to Amend the Health and Public Welfare Act." Hon, Dr. J. W. McGrath (Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, this is

an Act to re­ peal

Section I 94 of the Health and Public Welfare Act. Under the Act as it stands at the present time, there is a requirement that all hospi­ tals in the Province be licenced by the De­ pattment of Health, and standards and so on are prescribed by that Department. But under

Section 194, hospitals owned or op­ erated by religious denominations or bodies are exempted from this Iiccndng. Now, with the prospect in front of us of the insurance arrangement with the Federal Government to apply free hospitalization, unf~rtunately that will mean our present denominational hospitals, of which there arc two, St. Clare's and the Grace Hospital, would not be able to benefit by the pay­ r;nents envisaged under that scheme, be­ cause the Federal Act requires that any hos­ pital must be licenced, before it can sign a valid contract with the Province.

It is for that reason I ask for the repeal of this par­ ticular section, which will then bring all hospitals in the country under licencing power of the Department of Health. I .may say the two bodies concerned, the authorities in charge of the Grace.and St. Clare's Hospitals, have both been fully con­ sulted on the matter. and arc in en_tire ag­ reement with the action of the Government in bringing forward this Bill. On motion, Bill read a second time, ordered referred to a Committee of the Whole House '(on tomorrow).

Honourable the Attorney · General asks leave to introduce a Bill, l<An Att Fllrther to Amend the District Courts Act." On motion, Bill read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow. Honourable the· Attorney General asks leave to introduce a BiU, "An Act to Further Amerid the Judicature Act." On motion, Bill read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow. Honourable the Minister of Finance asks leave to introduce a Bill, "An Act Further to Amend the Loan and •Guarantee- Act, 1957." On motion, Bill read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

Honourable the Minister of Finance asks leave to introduce a Bill, "An Act to Amend the Local Authority Guarantee Act, 1957." On motion, Bill read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow. Honourable the Minister of Mines and Re­ sources asks leave to introduce a Bill, "An

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 367 Act to Amend the Unimproved Lands (Re­ distriction Act) 1957." On motion, Bill read a first time. ordered read a second time on_tomorrow. Honoura­ ble the Minister of Fisheries asks leave to introduce a Bill, "An Act to Amend the Fishery Salt (Sales and Distribution) Act, 1957." Ori motiori, Bill read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow. Honourable the Miriister of Mines and Re­ sources asks leave to introduce a _Bill, "An Act Further to Amend the Undeveloped Mineral Areas Act." ,On motio'n, Bill read a first t,ime, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

Honourable the Minister of Finance asks leave to introduce a Bill, "An Act Further to Amend the Gasoline Tax Act." On motion, Bill read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow. Second Reading of Bill, "An Act to Amend the Department of Municipal Affairs and Supply, Act." Hon. B. J. Abbott: (Minister of Municipal Affairs}: Mr.-Speaker, this amendment is very simple. The object is, of course, to bring the City of Comer Brook, the Local Improvement Districts and Community Councils within the ambit of this Act. Mr. Speaker, I move second. reading.

On motion, Bill read a second time, ordered referred to a Committee of the Whole House on tomorrow. Second Reading of Bill, "An Act to Amend the Department of Public Works Act, 1957." Hon. J.R. Chalker: (Minister of Public Works): Mr. Speaker, this amendment gives the Department of Public Works the au­ thority to regulate traffic on Government owned lands. Highways are not affected in any way and they will still be subject to highway regulations. Under the proposed legislation the Minister of Public Works would allow permits to be used, etc., in pub­ lic places. Hon. M. M.

Hollett: (Leader of the Opposi­ tion}: Mr. Speaker, what is on the permit to indicate the authority under which the sign is erected? What is to indicate there is some authority? Anybody could put up a sign for "no parking" and get away with it. I parked under a no-parking sign the other day and did not get away wi~h it. _I was not gone two minutes and when I came back I had a ticket - who am I to blame? Premier Smallwood: Blame the Govern­ ment. I have had three tickets and have gone up three times and paid my fine like a man, I hope. Mr. Hollett: I did not feel much like a man.

Mr, Smallwood: If the honourable gentle­ man ,-Vill allow- Once I was Attomt;y Gen­ eral while the Attorney General was away. I think the police were waiting until I was Attorney General. They figured .the time would come sometime when I was Attofriey General. As soon as I was, they put a ticket on iny car - I went up and paid. I do not know whether the present Attorney Gen­ eral would do that or not - Hon. L. R. Curtis: (Attorney General): I sometimes get a ticket. Mr. Speaker: Order- It is the Honourable the Leader of the Opposition who has the floor. · Mr.

Hollett: I am speaking to the principle of the Bill -1 was going to raise the ques­ tion, whether the Attorney General g0t a ticket or not or whether he paid it if he did get it. 1 stated 1 had to pay ano-parking penalty recently,and now I am joined by the Honourable the Premier - he paid three times,so who am I to object? But the point I was raising under subsection 5 - "The Minister may erect no parking signs/' l think that on such a sign there ought to be something like they did have. "DPW .. or something, to indicate the authority under which such a sign is erected.

I did know of cases where individuals did put up a no­ parking sign. 1 grant you it did not look like the official one, but it did say "No parking." I would suggest some letters or something put on the sign. Mr. Higgins: 1 might say, Mr. Speaker, be­ fore the Minister rises, there is one

section here that may give rise to some enquiry, that is the provision permitting the Mi~ister to issue permits to any person to park his ve_hi-

368 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS de on any of the land referred to. Now, ,I presume that land will be used by people engaged in the service of the Goverrirrteilt of Newfoundland. As it is presently worded, the Minister can, if he so wishes, (if he had a brother, nephew, father-in-law, say, working down near the court-house) give permission to drive in on the land. I know it is an idea, and there are people in the Province uncharitable enough to say it will be clone. I merely draw it to the Minister's attention so that if there is any way he can alleviate this objection, he might dO it.

Thfn we are also giving, Sir1 unde_r this proposed legislation, the right io im' pose fines - _No, it is oaf - I beg your pardoµ - becallse if you read sub:section (6) you will find a minimum fine oftwenty­ five dollars but I do think, Sir, that "prefer­ red parking" might lend itself to misin­ terpretation. Mr. Nightingale: Mr. Speakes, I agree with the Honourable Leader of the Opposition. In the City of St.John's there are "No Park­ ing'' signs in some places, and the.signs are not even marked "The City of St.John's." I think it is only right.

These things will get tangled up, and people will think they are breaking the Municipal Act when they are breaking the Public Works Ac( This Act we are passing now shoitld designate a disting­ uising mark of the Department it comes under - they are the on_es ~ave-to take the action - I agree with the Honourable Leader of the Opposition and it is so easy to put uDP\V." Mr. Curtis: It is always difficult to know who has authorized the erection of these signs. I believe in the City of St.

John's the Minister has delegated his authority to the Council, and I believe further that tbe Council redesignated it to the Traffic CoriuiliSsion - Now then; whose initials should be on the back of it? Mr. Higgins: There are not using any. Mr. Curtis: I believe there is legislation pro­ vision under the Highway Traffic Act;_ it is no longer necessary to identify the signs - It may be a mistake, but that matter is not before us now. That is already provided for in another

section of the Highway Traffic Act. which is not before the House. Mr. Speaker: Order - The hono_urable member has spoken. The Hortimrable Minister who introduced the Bill doses the debate. I take it no other honourable member wishes to speak. Hon. J, R. Chalker: (Minister of Public Works): Mr. Speaker, the questions put forward by the various members here will be taken care of in Committee, A question was asked about placing initials on _signs. The Deputy Minister has informed ITle it is not necessary any more. On motion, Bill read a second time, ordered referred to a Committee of the \Vhole HollSe on tomorrow.

Second Reading of Bill, "An Act Further to Amend the Civil Service Act." Hon. E.S. Spencer: (Minister of Finance): Mr. Speaker. in second reading_ of this amendment, I would like to point out for the information of anybody who may not be too familiar with it, this merely amends Paragraph (

c) of subsection 3 of secticm 30 of the Civil Service Act,

Chapter 22, of the Revised Statutes of 1952.

Under that Sta­ tute (I have not got the details of it before Il1e, and do not think it is necessary) we are 'in the position that if a person who was employed by the Department of Education were to resign his position, say-to go back home and fish, or even totake on the more criticized vocation of entering pubHc life; and "then at some future dare· decide- to apply again for employment in the Civil Service; under the Civil Service Act he would be entitled, ifhe could qualify to ob­ tain re-employment in the Civil Service, under the Pensions Act as laid down in this original Act, he would be eligible to count his -former years of service for pcnsionabil­ ity, which all Civil Servants are entitled to.

But he would not, I say, be entitled to re­ ceive these added years for pensionabie·ser­ vice unless he re-entered the Department of Education. , Now, that is the pertinent point. \Ve do not think that when the Act was formulated it was meant to discriminate against any indi­ vidual who might, for any reason, resign his post in the Civil Service and theil decide to re-enter the Civil Service in any paiticular Department. I do not think it was the inten­ tion of the people who wrote the Act to deprive that particular individual of his pensionable years of senice.

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 369 It is for that reason. and that reason only, that this particular amendment is now be­ fore the house. So much so if a person we_re, as I said at the outset of my remarks, to resign his position to go into farming or fishing or any other vocation that he choose, and then later decide to come back, he could not, by that clause, becompeJled to re-enter the Department of Education in, order to qualify for his pension rights - He could enter any Department of Government and qualify. Mr. Speaker, that is the whole pur­ pose of this amendmentt and I move second reading.

On motion, Bill read a second time, ordered referred to a Committee of the Whole House on tomorrow. Second Reading of a Bill, "An Act to Au­ thorize the Lieutenant-Governor in Council to Enter into an .Agreement with Crown Zellerbach Corporation." Hon. J. R. Smallwood: (Premier): Mr. Speaker, with the concurren'ce of the house. I do not propose to move the Crown Zeller­ bach Agreement this afteinoqn but rather to do it on Monday afternoon. I may say, Mr.

Speaker, we have had a con­ ference with the Honourable Leader of the Opposition on that matter, and it has been agreed between us that on Monday I will move second reading with a'speech in which I will describe the agreement and s_o on; and then the debate, on the completion of my remarks, will be adjourned, and the house might adjourn, until, say Wednesday, if there is no other work to be done, or if there w~re, the hc~mse might adjourn for a day, to give the Opposition at least a whole day in which to go through the legislation care­ fully. and see if there is anything in it that they do not agree with, so that they will be ready to resume the debate when it is called again on \Vednesday.

So, Mr. Speaker, my present plan is to move,on Monday, second reading and then ad:journ the debate until \Vednesday, and then so that the Opposition may have as long as they want to consider, and then hav­ ing considered it, to debate this piece of legislation. I was going to suggest, Mr. Speaker, that ,ve might have a recess for ten minutes, and after recess do the third read­ ings and then go into Committee of the Whole on the St. John's Shops Act. On motion, the house recessed for ten mi­ nutes after which Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair.

Third Reading of Bill, "An Act to Incorpo­ rate the City of Corner Brook and for Other Purposes in Connection Therewith." , On motion. Bill read a third time. ordered passed and title to be as on the Order Paper. Third Reading of Bill, "An Act Further to Amend the Act 5 Edward VII,

Chapter 10 Entitled "An Act to Encourage the Man­ ufacture of Pulr and Paper in this Colony." On motion, Bil read a third time, ordered passed and title to be as on the Order Paper. Third Reading of Bill, "An Act Further to Amend the Local Government Act, 1956." On m0tion, Bill read a third time, ordered passed and title to be as on the Order Paper. Third Reading of Bill, "An Act Further to Amend the Highway Traffic Act." On motion, Bill read a third time, ordered passed and title to be as on the Order Paper.

On motion that the hoµse go into Commit­ tee oflhe Whole on Bill Number 22 "An Act Respecting the Payment of BoW1ties on, the Rebuilding and Repairing of Fishing and Coasting Vessels," and Bill Number 13, "An Act Further to Amend the St. John's Shops Act," Mr. Speaker left the Chair. Mr. Clarke Chairman of Committee of the Whole. Committee of the Whole on BiU, "An Act Respecting the Payment of Bounties on the Rebuilding and Repairing of Fishing and Coasting Vessels." Mr. Chairma"n: This was concluded, and referred back to Committee of the Whole again. Hon. L. R. Curtis: (Attorney General): I would move, Mr.

Chairman, that we h:m­ sider Clause 9 (I) (

c) on the bottom of page 7. I ask leave that the

section be reconsi­ dered. On motion, leave given to reconsider Clause 9. Mr. Curtis: At the last session, Mr. Chair­ man, we amend that scctivn to read: - "(c} which for a period of at least five years immediately before the permit was issued was engaged in the fishing and coasting or

370 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS either of them or lying up in Newfound­ land.'1 Now, Mi:-, Chainnan, that was a bit ambigu­ oq.s - "Lying up in Newfoundland for a period of two years." If that were carried through literally it would mean any boat lying up two years would qualify, That-was obviously not the intention of the house.

I therefore move as an amendment to (c) - "Which are registered in Newfoundland for at ]east five hears immediately before the permit was issued and were during the whole of that period engaged in the ftsheriCs and coasting or either or them. or lying in Newfoundland, but for the purpose of this paragraph no period oflying up shall be counted except with the approval of the Minister." Mr. Chairman. that gives the Minister some discretion, and I move that amendment. Mr.

Higgins: Of course that would not cover....:.. suppose a man were to buy a vessel somewhere outside, he ,vould not qualify­ registered in Newfoundland at least five years, Mr. Curtis: He cannot get a bounty unless it were registered for five years. Mr. Hollett:- It's got to stop somewhere, Mr. Curtis: l think we might let that go through now. On motion. Clause 9 (I) (c), as amended. carried. Mr. Curtis: Mr._ Chairman, since we are on this Bill we might have another look at Sec­ tion 61 and therefore I would move that

Section 6 be reconsidered. On motion agreed that

Section 6 be recon­ sidered. · Mr. Curtis: It has been suggested that the same wording should take place in

Section 6 as

Section

Section 6 says: - "'Subject to this Act the Minister shall pay bounties in respect of vessels which are ..... "That is a very badly worded section. We might follow the wording

Section 9: - "Subject to this Act the Government shall pay the bounties under this Act only in re­ spect of vessels which are .... " with the same wording for (a), (b), (c), (

d) and (e). I would move this amendment to

Section 6. On motion/ Clause 6 as amended carried. Motion, that the Committee report -having pai,sed this Bill with some amendment, car­ ried, Mr. Hollett: Before we leave the othCr I wonder could I ask the Minister if he could say who is the Director of vessel construc­ tion? Mr. Curtis: Mr. Richard Harvey. ST. JOHN'S SHOP ACT: Committee of the Whole on Bill. "An Act Further to Amend the St. John"s Shops Act." Mr. Chairman: When the Committee rose on Item 13, "An Act Further to Amend the St. John"s Shops Act." Clause 2 was the clause under consideration.

There was ah amendment moved by th'e Honourable member for St.

John"sEast. which dealt with the three sub-sections of Clause 15 - To begin with, this amendment stated it was in three sections - I think p0ssibly it would have been better if the amendment had bee.!1 broken down to deal with each 611e of thC clauses, because a person may find.him­ self agreeing with one part of the arnend­ ment and disagreeing with one or '.niore other parts of the amendm'ent, and would conse'.qllently find himself in a p'osition where he had to vote against what he ,·be­ lieved in two sections, in order to vote for what he believed is in the first one.

I think probably it would have been better if we had the amendment to each sub-section as it came up. Mr. J.G. Higgins: (St. John"s East): Mr. Chairman, by leave of the Committee I would follow that procedure, and move that sub-section (

a) of

Section I be amended by deleting the words "'two hundred dollars" and substituting therefore "to a fine o[not less than twenty-five dollars and in default of payment" strike out the words "one month" and substitute "seven days:• I move that amendment, Mr. Chairnian. Mr. Chairman: No, on that there ;was a point of order raised; that the amendment

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 371 is outside or contrary to t4e principle of th~ Bill. Now. as I see it, the present Act, to which this Bill suggests an amendment, the fine would be twenty-five dollars. This amendment makes it so that the fitle cotild still be twenty-five dollars, although it states not less than twenty-five dollars in each in­ stance, As I see it, the whole principle of the Bill is to reriderit impossible foraflycourt to impose a fine that is not substantially in excess of t\i;enty-five dollars.

That appears to me to be the underlying principle of this Bill at the- present time - to render it im­ possible for any fine which is not substan­ tially in excess of twenty-five dollars to be imposed, For that reason I think that the amendment is contrary to the principle of the Bill as passed in second reading,. and for that reason I have to iule the amendment out of oider. The same ruling, of course, would apply in the case of Clause (

b) and Clause (c), Mr. Higgins: Mr, Chairman, I have not made any on Clause (

b) as yet, Mr, L. R. Curtis: It is indicated, Mr. Higgins: Now, Mr. Chairman, in re­ spectofsubsection (

b) I would move that the words "one thousand dollars" be deleted and that there be substituted therefore "two hundred dollarn," Mr. Chairman: Following the same ruling as I gave just now, the amount of the fine was fifty dollars and this one is two hundred dollars. I accept the amendment on Clause (b), Hon. M.P. Murray: (Minister of Provincial Affairs): Well, Mr, Chairman, in that event I would certainly like to oppose the amendment as proposed by n:tY honourable friend from St.

John's East, and I think in doing so, it would be proper for us to go back to the atmosphere in which this Bill was framed, and this amendment made. As ,ve all know, a certain segment of the popu­ lation here in St. John's openly announced they were about to break the law, At that moment, the Legislature was in session, and this house unanimously agreed to a princi­ ple that the law should not be broken; and to assure it would not be broken it was de­ cided that a fine much m0re drastic than any_ allcrwed in the 'original Act w0u1d be brought in.

That was vo,ted on, and' e"very member of this house accepted than unanimously. , Hon. M.M. Hollett: (Leaderofi~e Opposi­ tion):"Not that a drastic fine be brought in. Mr. Murray: The principle was that the law would be enfo_rced, and the method whereby it was done was that the fil1e was raised so drastically it would not pay the people to break it. That is the principle of the Bill. That was accepted, as I say, by this house. unanimously. A couple of days later, the honourable member proposed tin amendment which would nullify that prin­ ciple. As we aJI know, Mr.

Chairman/ no Committee, not even a Committee of the Whole House, can nullify

an Act of the house itself. If this amendment were ac­ cepted, it would cancel out everything we have done previously, and we would be pllt back exactly in the same position as 'if the principle had never been accepted, and t_his Bill never brought in at alL I suggest, Sir, the amendment is bad because it nullifies the principle of the Bill, is destructive of the Bill and is not compatible with it, Mr. Hollett: Mr.

Chairman, I cannot agTeC with the argument put forth by the hono'uf2 able member for Ferrvland, If the argu­ ment advanced by the lionollrable member be so then, suppose we leave the th0usitn_d dollars there (it is a thousand I believe) still some peciple who have been described"'0n Water Street as Maharajahs and Nabobs - Premier Smallwood: Also as outlaws .and lawless men. Mr.

Hollett: Some of the people who still say thatiri Spite of that thousand dolla~ "we will keep oilr shops open anyway." \Vha~Ure wc going to do, bring in another Bill and say five thousand dollars, and if they still say no, then arc we to take their heads off? Mr. Smallwood: No, keep raising the fine, Mr. Hollett: Raising the ante, That is not the way to carry out Jaw and order.

372 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS Mr. Smallwood: If they keep breaking it, how can we keep on enforcing it? At twenty-five dollars a time they could go on for a thousand years and become mil­ lionairs. at twenty-five dollars a shot. Mr. Hollett: That is not the way to look at it. Mr. SIIlallwood: Move an amendment just to give a jail sentence, with no fine at all. Mr. Curtis: \Ve wi~l agree. Mr. HOilett: This Act was never made to caryy' out the idea as sponsored by the learned member for Fc1Tyland.

It was not thought, \vhen this Act was passed, that pe,ople were going to deliberately say they would defy and not keep it. :Mr. Smallwood: Not when the Act was made, but they did it. Mr.Hollett: Let the law enforcement offic­ ers haye a chance and stztrt to carry out the law as it is; or if the people think the fine there is a little bit too heavy and want two hundred dollars, alright make it two hundred dollars.

Twenty-five dollars, I admit, is not much for any person on Water Street who is going to defy the law and open a store when ordered not to; but I do think if we adopt the same principles as these same maharajahs on Water Street adqpted, then one day they open their shops and the next day the ho_use opens and ,ve increase the fine and th'e next day they open their shops- after all, what is a thousand dollars to a maharajah or nabob on what-not? they do not mind a thousand dollars. Mr. Smallwood: Mr. Chairman, to a point of order - there is an amendment, and Your Honour has accepted the amendment as being in order.

By so doing, Your Hon­ our has committed the Committee now to go back to the principle of the Bill. Your Honour ruled out the first amendment, very properly, but accepted the proprietary of the second amendment, and in so doing allowed the Committee of the Whole to do an unpreceridented thing in Parliament - through history- to debate again a princi­ ple accepted at second reading. Here we are back again debating the principle of the Bill. That is what we are doing, and apprently it is in order. Mr. Higgins: At least, the Minister of Pro­ vincial Affairs initiated the debate. Mr.

Hollett: Absolutely, and brought up the affairs of which I am presently talking. Incidentally, we are not nullifying the prin­ ciple of the Bill because, as the Chairman so well pointed out, we are increasing the fine from fifty dollars up to two hundred. We agree to that, but we do think from fifty dolJars up to a thousand dollars is not the principle. I would say the amendment would be quite in order, and I certainly support the amendment made by my learned friend. Mr. Renouf: Mr. Chairman, may I have a word on that: - I think we are seeking for a yardstick in the matter.

If! recall correctly, the Honourable the Premier himself said there should be a sharp increase in the amount of the fine. Well, surely an increase of from fifty to two hundred dollars should be regarded as a sharp increase. After all, we are considering the whole thing in the light orin the tenorofhow fines and impos­ itions and things like that run. Mr. Smallwood: The honourable gentle­ man has forgotten; if the amo~nt is one to two hundred in the first, where is the sharp increase for the second offence? If this amendment were to be carried, where is the sharp increase from (

a) to (b), (

a) is two hundred dollars, and the amendment for (

b) is that it be two hundred, so that the second offence is the same fine as the first offence, Mr. Nightingale: Mr. Chairman, I think that true progress iS to bring up heavier artillery, war has been declared - They have decided they are going to open anyway -bring up heavier artillery. Not only that; if they get a small fine it is quite possible even the stores themselves will compete with earh other. One fellow for twenty-five dollars would open anyway, the other would close. Look at the competition. The stores would be competing with each other. On the other hand they have only this Saturday to open-this is the last Saturday. Mr. Hollett: The honourable gentleman

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 373 forgets this law is for St. John's City, not for Water Street but St. John's City, and ifTom Jones on Flower Hill inadvertently opens his store some Saturday morning, it is a thousand dollars, and puts him out of busi­ ness. That is the man I think the honourable member should think about. not the man on Water Street, to blazes with him, he can pay his fine anyway. Mr. Smallwood: To what with him? Mr. Murray: Mr. Chairman, I think we are out of order - My honourable friend's amendment is wrong because it nullifies the principle of the Bill.

It has nothing what­ soever to do with the merits or demerits, which should be discussed after the amendment is disposed of. Mr. Chairman: The amendment is that the amount be changed from not less than one thousand to riot less than two hundred dol­ lars. Mr. Smallwood: Which wouldmean the same as (a), the first and second offence would have the same penalty. Mr. Duffy: I would like, Mr. Speaker, to support the amendment.

When I spoke on the principle of the Bill I suggested, and for very obvious reasons, that this Bill was con­ ceived in haste and obviously I don't think we should have to waste too much time on that point; it is obvious to me it was con­ ceived in haste, and that is what has brought about this unfortunate situation. Mr. Curtis: What situation? TI1e honoura­ ble member is talking about a serious situa­ tion - Is he referring to the shops opening last Saturday? - if so that has nothing to do with this Bill. Mr. Duffy: I suggest it is a very serious situation.

I think the action of the Govern­ 'ment brought the law into disrepute. I think that fines and penalties should have some relation to common sense, and to some reasonable comparison with the nature of the offense. Now, a thousand dollar fine for the opening of a shop for a second offence in a circumscribed area -certainly floes not seem to me to be reasonable, and bears no relationship whatever to Common sense. I think, as l said before, this was conceived in rancor, alld there is no'questio,n at ali that the Attorney General mentioned a_week or so ago, one reason why these penalties and others in another

section were to be brought in was becauseofthe profit motive, and that a one thousand dollar fiile would restrict or prevent- Mr. Smallwood: No, Mr. Chairman, this is out of order. This is repeating what was said in debate on second reading. It is not in order, Mr. Chairman, to repeat in one de­ bate what was said in another debate in the same session of the house. Now I the debate on second reading is over, and it is out of order to repeat what was said in it. It is out of order - It is worth hearing, but it is out of order. Mr. Duffy: Mr.

Chairman, the profit mo­ tive, that too tends, to make the stores on Water Street fearful of opening, for a fine is one thing that is very reasonable, and sub­ sequent events proved that the largest emp~ loyer of retail labour on Water Street, Ayre & Sons - Ayre & Sons is the largest emp­ loyer of retail clerks. There is none· larger than Ayre & Sons. Mr. Curtis: Bowringsadvertise they are the biggest. Mr. Duffy: That shop opened forone hour.

Now they could have opened with a fear of a larger fine, and they could have remained open to six o'clock and made the forty-five thousand dollars some one suggested they make a day. I think the fine is ridiculous and out of all proportion to common sense, and I support the amendment. Mr. Clarke: The amendment ,Vas heard - ThOse in faVour of it say "aye" and against the amendment say "nay." I declare the amendment lost. Mr. Higgins: In sub-section (c), Mr. Chair­ man, I move that the ,vords "five thousand" be deleted and substitute the words "one thousand dollars." Mr. Murray: Generous.

374 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS Mr. Higgins: \Veil, we have to move with the times. I will leave the nine months there. Mr. Murray; Mr. Chairman. I rise again to oppose the amendment. Again I say it is against the principle of the BilL We have to see the law enforced, and if people persist in breaking the law the fine should be graduated, and surely for the third offence, after being hauled up twice and fined two hundred on the first, and a thousand the next, then the final 'Offence or the third fihe should-be more than what it is for the sec­ ond. Mr. Clarke: We could go over all the same arguments actually we have heard in con­ nection with (b), It would be repetition on (

c) and therefore I put the amendment. I declare the amendment Jost. · Mr. Hollett: Mr. Chairman, before you leave that, l wonder if I vmuld be in order in moving that sub-section (

c) be deleted com­ pletely? \Vould that be in order or out of order? Mr. Curtis: There would be no punishment then for the third offence; that would be grand. Mr. Hollett: We ought to have something for the fourth, according to you. Mr. Smallwood: No, the third and any sub­ sequent offence. Mr. Hollett: I withdraw that. Mr. Higgins: Mr. Chairman, sub-section (2) is. I submit, completely pointless. It does not seem to be reasonable. A man may not even be in the country. , Mr. Curtis: Yes, I would suggest, Mr. Chairman, to the _Minister, we might write in, after the words "director of the com­ pany" and have it read this way: - "The occupier of a shop who contervenes any of the provisions of

Section 4 of this Act as a company, the 'company who is resident in Newfoundland at the time of the alleged contravention, is guilty of an offence." Put in the words afterl·ompany "who is resident in Newfoundland at the time." We should really say "the Province" - "who iS resident in the Province at the time of the ,alleged contravention is guilty of an offence." Mr. Hollett: We would then have to define the word ''resident." Mr. Curtis: \Ve will leave something for the criminal lawyers to defend. Mr. Duffy: Mr. Chairman, this again con• firms what I have already said about the previous

section - about this thing being conceived very hastily and not in a very de­ tached frame of mind, I am afraid- by the people who thought it up-But when you consider the implicatiori.s of this section- I knciw a firm on Water Street with sixteen directors. Now, on a third offence, this body of sixteen directors in ·this firm would-be subject to a fine of eighty thousand dollars. Now I put it to you, even to the most enig­ matical member of the opposite side-as far as the maharajahes are concerned-this is really ridiculous, there is no point to it at aH. I know another firm on \Vatcr Street with fifty directors.

Now according to this section- Mr. Curtis: A firm on \Vater Street with fifty directors? Mr, Duffy: Fifty directors. Mr. Curtis: Do you hear that, Pat? Mr. Duffy: I saw the Attorney General in the same store. Mr. Curtis: I don't believe there is a store in Newfoundland with fifty directors. Mr. Smallwood: I don't believe there is a company in the world with fifty directors. Mr. Duffy: I am sure. Mr. Smallwood: United States Steel nor Standard Oil have not got it. Mr. Duffy: Doing a quarter of a million dollars business. A quarter of a millip_n_ dol­ lars, a quarter of a million dollars would be the fine. Mr.

SmallWood: Bowaters have not got it. There is not a company in the world \\1ith fifty directors.

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 375 Mr. Curtis: Mr. Chairmant I rise to a.point of order- Here is a gentleman who says there is a company in Newfoundland with resident directors numbering fifty - Mr. Duffy: No, not resident directors. Mr. Curtis: We are talking to the amend­ ment, and it says "resident directors." Mr. Duffy: I would still like to say, Mr, Chairman, the other day the Speaker ob­ jected to my interrupting another speaker - I think the same applies to me. I am entitled to speak too without interruptions, Mr.

Chairman, as I said before, because of the fact when the members of the Govcm­ ffient framed or conceived this Bill they de­ nuded themselves of aU connection with common sense. Mr. Murray: Mr. Chairman, I have to reply to my honourable friend over there again, and ask- when talking ofcommon sense­ does he mean to sitggest the situation arises now. talking about the third offence. every director costs a quarter of a millioll. dollars.

Let us see what happens before anyone can be liable for the third offence-It is not an offence ·brought about by hot blood, nor done inadvertantly, nor that sort of thing. \Vhat happens is that a board of directors, twenty or fifty. six down over a long top desk and decide to open thei_r stor~s.

It is done coldly and deliberately, if the offence arises, in an attemptto break the law, If fifty directors earn two million dollars, in that event I say the fine would be justified. ·NO group of people should be allowed. to sit dciwn and deliberately and mid-bloodedly, and after due consideration· dedde, what­ ever the la~v is, "we are going to break it." If they do so, I say the penalry should be dras­ tic. Mr. Duffy: May I suggest the Minister is not talking too much common sense there, be­ cause I cite a hypothetical case.

If the Minis­ ter of Provincial Affairs, on some fine Saturday, decides to go fishing and he finds he has not got a reel, and all his other friends have gone out of town, he has no reel - So he phones the Manager of a Company, of a store on ·water Street, and tells him the spot he is in, and asks that he help him out. So this friend, mind,_ goes down on ·water Street and opens his store­ and he has been fined twice mind you - and opens the store and sells him •~· two dollar reel; if there are sixteen directors in that store, that business, they are -fined eighty thousand dollars - That is a con­ crete case. Mr.

Curtis: That is so concrete, Mr. Chair­ man, that is the reason for

Section 19 .. The real bite of this section. Mr. Chairman, is that, if people are going to deliberately break the law, we must be able to punish lhem, Now then, the strength of this

section is not in the fine. It is in the imprisonment. You cannot imprison a company but can, jolly well, imprison a director who an­ nounces to the world he is going to violate the law, he is inviting himself to jail; and this law is to enable the magistrate to send him _to jail. Mr. Smallwood: Mr. Chairman, surely the honourable gentleman who represents St. John's Centre does not feel that if directors ofa_Company disagree with a law, that they should have the right to defy the law, to break it-? Mr. Duffy: I did not so suggest. Mr.

Smallwood: No I am asking the hon­ ourable gentleman a question - Surely, I say 1 he does not argue here that if a director of a company wishes to break a law I because he disagrees with it, that he should because he is a director who disagrees with the law, and does not think it is a good law • .ind does not ~hink this legislature ought to have pas­ sed 11, (although they did pass it, it is the law of the land) surely the honourable gentle­ man does not think because these directors do not think the Legislation ought to have heen passed, they therefore should be per­ mitted to break that law with impunity, or if not exactly with impunity, then with a slight, modest little punishment?

Mr. Duffy: That has nothing to do with what I am talking about, Mr. Smallwood: It has everything in the world to do with it. This is designed to meet the case.

376 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS Mr. Hollett: Not the case before the courts now - I hope not. Mr. Smallwood: The honourable gentle­ man knows better than that. Does he see anything in the Bill to make it retroactive, or say it ,vill come into force before the Lieutenant-Governor gives Royal Assent. If it is given Royal Assent today, does he mean the case now before the court comes under the amended Act? That is just a bit of some­ thing I hesitate to put a word on, as it might only lead to a bad feeling.

If the innocent and harmless gentlemen of Water Street had not called a meeting (and I am rio lawyer) but I just wonder in passing whether that was a criminal act, for two or more persons to meet and decide to break a law. Is that an unlawful act? Mr. Higgins: \Vho has the information? Who blew the Roast? Mr. Smallwood: Someone who attended the ineeting came straight to me and fold me what happened and who said what,just as though I had been present. I am glad I was not.

I might have been part of a criminal conspiracy - If these harmless and inno­ cent gentlemen of\Vater Street had not met and decided, jointly and collectively, to break the law, but had merely gone and broken it, then what would happen? Obvi­ ously they would be prosecuted under the Act as it stands.

If they had been fined and paid their fine, (if they had not again collec­ tively broken it there would be nothing happen) but if they had broken it and had been fined their twenty-five dollars, and then· again in quick succession had kept breaking it every Saturday - they did not break it the second Saturday for a very good reason, and here is the reason - (Oh yes, here is the reason - The honourable gent­ leman need have no doubt in his mind about it - Here is the reason. It is not the law yet- It is not the law yet).

It is not yet the law, but there is at least a faint possibility that it will be the law-It is at least printed, it has received second reading, and we are half way through Committee of the Whole. It could be the law by three o'clock tomor­ row afternoon. Mr. Clarke: \Ve are out of order now. Mr. Smallwood: Exactly, Mr. Chainnan, we have been breaking the law of the Assembly by passing this first in second reading, and then in the Committee of the Whole, acting as though we had not passed it and we go on debating it.

That is why I insisted, to the best of my ability, that when a Bill passes second reading, never again should the principle be discussed. That is what happens when we try to debate it a second time in Committee of the \Vhole, when it is concluded in second reading. However, if there had been wis­ dom on Water Street, if they were not men of the intelligence of a third-form school child, if they had been grown up, if they were mature men, if they did not have blin­ kers on and could see anything outside the blinkers- Mr. Duffy: To a point of order, Mr.

Chair­ man, may I suggest we are discussing the amendment, and not persons on Water Street. , Mr. Clarke: I said, a moment ago, we 'had departed Tram Clause 2, as previously amended. Mr.

Smallwood: The horio.urable m~mber was discussing a few minutes ago, directors, a hypothetical case and a Company which has fifty difCctors, and I am discussing the directors; andI say: - I.f the directors did not have blinkers on, if they had intellig­ ence, if they were adult, if they were grown up 1 then they would have not entered into this COnspiracy, and they would not have thrown down the gauntlet to the Govern­ ment ofNewfoundland, and more than that to the Legislature of Newfoundland. They would not have done that, because they would have known it is a game they can't win.

We might as well close up the house and let it stay closed. We know well we will win. Mr. Duffy: Why talk about it any mtire? Mr. Smallwood: When you are dealing with children. Mr. Duffy: They can't fight back- There is no need to attack. Mr. Smallwood: They can't fight back? They have fought back for a hundred years,

HOUSE OF ASS EMBLY PROCEEDINGS 377 and many times they have won. But of course they only win the battles, they always lose the war. They are going to be taught a lc$SCll, if they ,vere never taught one before, and arc never taught one:again. They are going to be taught a lesson now. Mr., Duffy: That is repetition. It was brought up for repetition: Mr. Smallwood: They are going to be taught a lesson by this.

Bill becoming law, because I believe in my heart that the Com­ mittee is going to pass th_e Bill, the house will give it third reading arid it will become law of the land and we will teach them a lesson as to who is boss in Newfoundl.ind - "\Vater Street or this Legislature," Who is the boss of Newfoundland, the lawmaktirs or the lawbreakers? (That is not a bad one. That is well put). The lawbreakers or the lawmakers - Who will rule Newfound­ land? This law is going to tell that. That is why we are going to pass this

Section 2. Mr. Duffy: Mr. Chairman, we are talking about companies- a company can be made up of three people incorporated. Whether the company or shop or business is large or small. this particular Clause 2 relates to companies. I would suggest that there are dozens and scores of companies in this town which are comprised by

an Act of incorpo­ ration, of father, mother and one or other members of the family - Where do they come in? They are still corporations. They are not millionaires. To run their business efficiently, they are incorporated the same as the people we are talking about, but down in the lower level, in relationship to finance and employees. There are dozens and scores of corporations all over town.

They have no reserves, they are getting along as best they can, and in many cases they rep­ resent the estates of the deceased small shopkeepers where the widow is a director, and stilJ getting a bit ofliving out of running the business, or the business is run by sotrie younger member of the family. That is a point we have to consider, in these drastic fines and imprisonment. I would suggest that there are five times the number of these small corporations in this town, compared to the half dozen on Waer Street. Mr. Hollett: Mr. Chairman, I do not intend to say-very much more.

I am afraid we are getting away from the great prind pie oflaw making in this particular

section here, or in any section-but I am speaking on this one. You see,_ I have the honour to represent St. John's West which does not touch Water Street at all.

The point if very well taken by my honourable colleague, that there are lots of shopkeepers in that area, small shop­ keepers and there are not fifty directors in any of them, and they are likely to break the Shops Act; and, as a matter of fact, I would not be a bit surprised if a lot of them have, since 1942, when this Act was made, and it is going to be a' little while before they get out of the habit- I hope I do not find it, but I might find, under this Act that some of my friends atid friends of the Government who are shopkeepers in the district I represent may find themselves up before court, and fined five thousand dollars, and some might have_ to go to jail.

I think \Ve ought to re­ member that when making a law, we are making it for the people of the larger area, and not fora little place like Water Street, I have no sympathy for. As has been pointed out by the Honourab_le the P_remier, am:l I think the Honourable Minister of Provin­ cial Affairs, a bunch of men get together and decide they are going to break a law-I have no sympathy for them. They should get whatever is coming to them. Mr. Smallwood: Not only what is coming, but what is coming should be a lot. Mr. Hollett: Still, I think we ought to ,vait and see just w_hat is behind the conspir,tcy of these men.

Are they going to consistently break the law? Then if they are, increase the law and shove them in jail, do anything you like. Mr. Smallwood: If they consistently break it, these heavy fines would apply. Mr. Duffy: Capital punishment. Mr. Smallwood: That is a little out of date. When they were bosses they, made about one hundred and fifty little offences punishable by death - they were the bosses. They are the same type of gentlemen. Mr. Chairman: Order, please.

378 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS Mr. Hollett: Thank you, Mr. Chainnan, I was pointing out that we ought not to allow ourselves, as a House of Assembly, to be drawn into this thing by a few merchants who have been described as "nabobs" on \Vater Street, not allow ourselves to- be drawn into that situation. Who is to blame, of course, I cannot say. I-will soon be siXty and before long seventy, and I think I am grown up as much as any one on Water Street. I have no sympathy for a bunch of men who are going to, go and say they will, defy the Government and break the law.

I said that before - and I say we on the Opposition side back the Government in carrying out the law, but we did not say we would back them in bringing in a law to make these merchants do what they are told to do - No, the law was there when- that statement was made, and if it was to be viol­ ated, the law should be applied, and if broken again should be applied, and if, then. it was the opinion of the Government, these people were going to defy the law, then bring in your Act and stiffen the fine - After all, in England at one time, if you stole a sheep you lost your head. Mr.

Smallwood: When the ancestors of the "kings" down there were bosses. Mr. Hollett: If one or two fellows Jost their heads and said what they should not, let us not blame the whole of Water Street. Mr. Smallwood: I agree, one particular lit­ tle hothead, the fellow who did not want to come in through the back door. Mr. Hollett: I think that is all I have to say­ Thank you very much for putting up with me. On motion Clause 2. as amended, carried~ Mr. Duffy: Mr. Chairman, if I may - If I have read this correctly I this is the most iniquitous of all these clauses.

In my opin­ ion, it has something more fundamental that the feelings of the Premier for the \Vater Street gang. This is an attack on "freedom of speech." Mr, Smallwood: I am glad the honourable gentleman does not say "freedom of press." Mr. Duffy: This says:- "An Occupier of a shop is guilty of an offence, and liable on

summary conviction to a fine of not less than one hundred dollars in default of payment to a term ofimprisonment for one month, who directly or indirectly makes, prinL'i, advertises, publishes or bfoadcasL, by any means, including radio or television, or cause or procures to be made, printed, advertised, published or broadcast by any means, including radio or television, any announcement that a shop wiH remain open or any day during which no open hfmrs are provided by or in accordance with this Act." That is obvious, in other words, a Saturday or any Statutory holiday, any unlawful day, but a Saturday in this case.

Mr. Smallwood:. It might be Good Friday, Mr, Duffy: I quite agree. I could not agree more fully- any unlawful day- If I, as a shopkeeper, tell my honourable friend over there that I propose to open on Saturday, I am guilty of an offonce. I suggest, Mr. Chairman. that this is calculated to spread fear through the land, this type of Legisla­ tion. Mr. Smallwood: Fear of breaking the law. Mr. Duffy: It smacks of Gestapo methods. I certainly o(nect to it. There again it is con­ ceived in rancor and hatred and that_is,why it is there~ Mr· Higgins: Mr.

Chairman, I find myself somewhat at variance with my honourable colleague in that. I say ifwe are goirig to put it in at all, we should make it a little more extensiVe~-Why prosecute the man who says he will ope11, why not prpsecute the. t~levi­ sion or radio or newspaper proprietbr_ who makes_ it _possible to announce to the world he is breaking the law? Why should we pro­ secute the shopkeeper and make it_ an of­ fence for a shopkeeper to say he wil) break _the law and completely ignore the press or radio station owner who charges him-a few dollars for making his illegal ideas public to the world •.

I would suggest that this

section be amended to not only make it an qffence (if we are going to make it the principle that it is an offence) b.ut tn include also people who provide the means whereby it-j.s .adver­ tised. There is no provision here to provide for any punishment for the news media

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 379 which c:onveys to the public the indication that John Jones is going to break the law, Mr,- Murray: You should agree amongst yourselves. Mr.Higgins: I know, but if you are going to have a law which provides punishment for a certain offence, how then differentiate bet­ ween the person who says, "I am going to break the law," or the people who convey that intention to the public? Mr.

Smallwood: I will answer that - If a man makes up his mind tomurdersomeone ~ that has been done - and he calls in a newspaper reporter_- and that has been d_one - and he says, I intend to murder so and so - and that has been done. That reporter reJX)rts it to his paper, and the paper publishes the fact - that has been done - or the radio station broadcasts the fact - and that has been done- the news­ paper or radio station, in that case, are merely (l won't say merely.

It may be more than merely) publishing a piece of news­ Undoubtedly, that John Jones says he is going to murder Bill Smith is a piece of news, that fact that he says so - and any~ body who announc:es he will defy the law is thereby making news, and _it is really quite something, if a Legislature is going to make itunlawful for ne\Vspapers or magazines or radios or televisions stations to broadcast or publish the news. Mr. Higgins: As paid advertising? Mr, Smallwood: It does not say as paid ad­ vertising. It says, where the man announces or causes to be announced the fact he in­ tends to do such and such. Mr.

Higgills: And advertises. Mr. Smallwood: It does not say it is a paid advertisement. For instance. merchants on Water Street decide to break the law, any law, this law or any law, they dedde they don't like it, disagree with it, and they de­ cide to break it, and they tell Station VOCM or CJON or CBC or the Daily News or the Evening Telegram or any publication, tell them in advance-Surely you are not going to make it unlawful for the newspaper or broadcasting station to publish the fact?

That would be c:ertainly an attack on the freedom of the press, it would undoubtedly be an attack on the free press, it would:be a diminuation of the rights of the free press; and I would say that that would be a highly dangerous thi~g to do. Mr. Higgins; Mr. Chainnan, that is not the point I was_ trying to ITu1.ke.

I would not like for a moment, to abuSe the right of any human being to report any event, but I did say that if any radio station or any televiSion station accepted as paid advertising _the an­ nouncement of John Jones & Company that they proposed to break the laws- If John Jones and Company arc liable for punish­ ment for giving the advertisement I suggest it should be also made an offence for any news rriedia to caffy the advertisement as a paid announcement. Mr. Smallwood: Orily carry it then as un­ paid? Mr. Higgins: There is a difference. They ,vollld make a profit - ·· Mr.

Hollett: Mr, _Ch_airman, I don't khow where ,ve are getting.in this house. It seems to me the argument pui up bf the Premier is far fetched. If a news media hears John Jones is going to break the law, I don't think it ought to be published. I think they ought to call the police or come perhaps to the Premier.

I think it is the job ofanybody wµo knows a crime is about to be committed to report it t0 the police, and not goo~ the air and say "so and so is going to murdCr John Jones tomorrow." Anyone who would_ ·put that in the newspaper, if somebody went up to them and said - ''I am ·going to break into the Royal Stores tomorrow moining"- Mr. SmallWood: They would be accessories before the fact if they did not, but they should be smart enough newspapermen _to also publish it, but first acquaint the palice. Mr. Hollett: Nonsense. The ne,vspaper­ men would think the fellow was mad any- way. , Mr.

Smallwood: He might be mad, but could still commit a murder. They should tell the police, but also publish .it in the newspaper.

380 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS Mr. Hollett: I agree with what my honour­ able friend on my left says about that­ While we may not want to make it unlawful for a broadcasting station to broadcast "so and so is going to open his store contrary to law" -I mean if they find they intend to do it, they would have to report it to the police. After all, is not all lawbreaking punishable, and is it not the duty of all of us to re}X>rt when we know the law is to be broken? - I think so. Mr. Smallwood: Well we must not punish the newspaper for reporting that the law is to be broken, that is what is suggested - Mr.

Higgins: I mean to make a prGfit out of it. Mr. Smallwood: News and advertising are sometimes hard to distinquish. Mr. Curtis: Listen to a radio commentator any night, or on television, how do you know where the news stops and advertising begins? The whole thing is an advertisment, to look at it in one way, It is paid for by the sponsor. It is impossible to know just where the news begins and advertising ends. Mr. Duffy: Mr.

Chairman, I do not profess to _know much about the law, but I have a little bit of intelligence, I suppose - I am trying to understand this - "make. print. advertise, publish or broadcast by any means including radio or television." Now. I made the statement tha_t vmuld include "by word of mouth" - Is that correct? Mr. Smallwood: Any means -It might be the deaf and dumb language. Mr. Duffy: It is an attack on freedom of speech, in other words. Mr. Smallwood: Does freedom of speech include the right to announce the right to break the law? Mr.

Duffy: If I say: - "I will open my shop on next Saturday," I am guilty of an of­ fence. Mr. Curtis: Mr. Chairman. I move an amendment, in the third line from the bot- tom there of Suh-section 16- "in default of payment to a term ofimprisonment for one month." On motion, Clause 16 as amended, carried: Mr. Curtis: Sub-Clause I 7 I would like to enlarge this a bit.

I do not think it goes quite far enough: - "When anyone makes, prints, advertises, publishes or ,broadcasts by any means, including radio or television, or causes or procures to be make, printed, advertised, published or broadcast by any means including radio or television any an­ nouncement (

a) that a shop will remain open on any day during which no open hours are provided or (

b) a shop operator remains open on any day during which no open hours are provided 0'y or in accor­ dance with this Act (

c) a shop has opened or remained open on any day, whether before or after the coming into force of this section, during which no open hours are or were provided by or in accordance with tbis Act, or (cl) an occupier of a shop has been con­ victed of an offence under

Section 15, the Attorney General may apply to the Sup­ reme Court or a judge thereof and on hear­ ing the application the Supreme Court or judge thereof shall grant an injunction to restrain the occupier of the shop and any other person from opening or keeping the shop open on the day, if any, referred to in the application and any other day during which no open hours are provided by or in accordance with this Act." The effect of this amendment, Mr. Chair­ man, is to make application to the Supreme Court for an injunction in any of the follow­ ing cases: - (

I) Where an occupier announces that he is to be open and puts an advertisement in the paper that he is going to be open. In that case an injunction can be asked.

(2) Where a shop actually opens or remains open on any day during which no open hours are provided, then an injunction can be applied for there and then.

(3) A shop has opened or remained open any day an which no open hours are pro­ vided, after the coming into force - In other words he does not have to be con­ victed, the very fact he has opened in·_viola­ tion of the law ona dosed day gives the right to ask for an injunction.

(4) Ifhe has been convicted. the effect of the

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 381 amendment is to make an application to the courts. Mr, Duffy: As I said before, and I cannot help repeating it - the more I read this amendment and more convinced I am (as I said before and will say again) this was con­ ceived "on impulse and with rancor" and without looking at it in a detached way. and an objective way, at all. A shopkeeper is penalized ifhe says he is going to open and then he is not pennitted to open, so that he is penalized for

an act he cannot commit. Mr. Curtis: He is not penalized if _he is forced to obey the law. Mr. Duffy: If he says he is going to open he is punished, and then he is not allowed to commit the crime for which he is punished. Mr. Murray: If a man announces he is going to commit a murder it is an offence, and if he commits it, it is another offence. Mr. Higgins: Where is he going to get the necessary judges on a Statutory Holiday? Mr. Murray: He goes to the Attorney Gen­ eral for authority to request an injunction. The law does not say the judge will be there waiting for the application. Mr.

Higgins: It may he an awful job to find Mr. Curtis: It may not be- last week it was announced on Friday these shops ,vere to open, and there was ample time to get a judge to give an order. Mr. Higgins: But the position as envisaged there is where, without any announcement at all, a shop owner opens or remains open. Mr. Curtis: In that case, they would have to get an injunction on the day in question. Mr. Hollett: What happens to a man who defies an injunction? Mr. Curtis: God help him Mr. Smallwood: Better let the courts give the answer to that. Mr. Curtis: He is guilty then of Contempt of Court; Mr.

Smallwood: What the honourable member for St.John's Centre does not seem to realize is that there is nothing necessarily sacred about the right to open a shop and make money, nothing necessarily sacred about it. It is not a "Divine Right;· and therefore it must be subject to law. Mr. Duffy: Of course. Mr. Smallwood: That is what we are doing now, subjecting it to strict legal control. Mr, Duffy: Reasonable law. Mr. Smallwood: Reasonable and carried out, particularly when it is announced in advance they are going to break it.

Mr~ Duffy: Someone once said, it is an excd­ lent thing to have the strength of a giant, but a terrible thing to use it like a giant. Mr. Smallwood: We are not using it like a giant. We could make it much more rigid than this. On motion, sub-clause 1'7 carried: Mr. Higgins: Mr. Chairman, in 18 we have the same busiriess again. You remove from the magistrate the discretion which is inher­ ent. I recall a statement being made