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September 26, 2001

37th Parliament, 2nd Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2001-Sep-26 (PDF)

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L'ONTARIO

Wednesday 26 September 2001 Mercredi 26 septembre 2001

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

HAZARDOUS WASTE

MABEL EMMA BRUCE

MUNICIPAL RESTRUCTURING

HATE CRIMES

CHRISTIAN HORIZONS

YOM KIPPUR

EVENTS IN NORTHUMBERLAND

CANCER TREATMENT

ALBERTO LA ROCCA

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT AGENCIES

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

STUDENT PROTECTION ACT, 2001 /

LOI DE 2001

SUR LA PROTECTION DES ÉLÈVES

ANTI-PRICE-GOUGING ACT, 2001 /

LOI DE 2001

CONTRE LES PRIX ABUSIFS

MARTYRS' SHRINE DAY ACT, 2001 /

LOI DE 2001

SUR LE JOUR DU SANCTUAIRE

DES MARTYRS CANADIENS

BUILDING CODE AMENDMENT ACT

(BIKER GANG CLUBHOUSES), 2001 /

LOI DE 2001 MODIFIANT

LE CODE DU BÂTIMENT

(MAISONS DE RÉUNIONS

DE BANDES DE MOTARDS)

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY AND RESPONSES

STUDENT PROTECTION LEGISLATION

JOHN SWEENEY

ORAL QUESTIONS

ONTARIO ECONOMY

BORDER SECURITY

COMPETITIVE ELECTRICITY MARKET

TRANSIT SERVICES

BIRTH CERTIFICATES

ONTARIO ECONOMY

HATE CRIMES

TOURISM

EDUCATION FUNDING

COMMUNITY CARE ACCESS CENTRES

WORKFARE

HEALTH SERVICES IN WINDSOR

PROFESSIONAL ACCREDITATION

PETITIONS

ATTENTATS CONTRE LES ÉTATS-UNIS

COMMUNITY CARE ACCESS CENTRES

LORD'S PRAYER

SAFE STREETS LEGISLATION

PROTECTION OF MINORS

SOCIAL SERVICES

KIDNEY DISEASE

PROTECTION OF MINORS

HEALTH CARE FUNDING

NORTHERN HEALTH TRAVEL GRANT

NURSES

HOME CARE

DOCTOR SHORTAGE

COMMUNITY CARE ACCESS CENTRES

ORDERS OF THE DAY

RESCUING CHILDREN FROM SEXUAL

EXPLOITATION ACT, 2001 /

LOI DE 2001

SUR LA DÉLIVRANCE DES ENFANTS

DE L'EXPLOITATION SEXUELLE

Wednesday 26 September 2001 Mercredi 26 septembre 2001

The House met at 1331.

Prayers.

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

HAZARDOUS WASTE

Ms Caroline Di Cocco (Sarnia-Lambton): We know and understand that a significant role of government is to protect public health and safety.

Safety-Kleen in Lambton county remains the largest importer of toxic hazardous waste in the country. It is the second-largest landfill and incinerator on the continent.

I have been continuously bringing to the attention of this government the need to change regulations so as to make this site safer, regulations which would

impose that hazardous waste be pretreated before it is landfilled. Ontario is now the only jurisdiction in North America that allows simple dumping of hazardous waste into the ground. Without

treatment, this approach creates a tremendous danger to public health and safety. The provincial government is the one which establishes the controls for hazardous waste landfills and has the

authority to accept or reject toxic hazardous waste from outside the province. I continue to bring to the attention of the Harris government that it has a responsibility here that it is not

meeting.

The Safety-Kleen hazardous waste landfill is an example of where the Harris government is the worst in all North American jurisdictions in how it regulates

hazardous waste landfills and incinerators. The current practice does not protect public safety or public health, and in years to come we will likely see a devastating environmental impact from

this site.

MABEL EMMA BRUCE

Mr John O'Toole (Durham): I'm pleased to rise in the House today to speak of a World War I hero from my riding of Durham who has been recognized

by Bowmanville's hospital volunteer association. Mabel Emma Bruce distinguished herself as a nurse in World War I while serving as a member of the 1st Canadian Field Ambulance. She was honoured

with three medals, including the Royal Red Cross insignia that she received from King George at Buckingham Palace. This rare medal is conferred only on those who exhibit "special devotion and

competency during wartime."

Before volunteering to serve overseas, Mabel Emma Bruce was Memorial Hospital, Bowmanville's first superintendent of nursing when the hospital opened in 1913, so

it is fitting that last evening she was recognized by the Association of Hospital Volunteers, Bowmanville. Her medal has been suitably framed and displayed, along with a plaque and photograph of

this distinguished woman.

At this time I'd like to recognize Jill Haskins, president of the Association of Hospital Volunteers, Bowmanville, and the members of the association's

newsletter team who were responsible for recognizing this distinguished nurse and researching the details of her life. The newsletter team consists of Les Trotman, Mary Taylor and Roger

Wharmby.

Actually, there is somewhat of a mystery surrounding the whereabouts of Mabel Bruce after World War I. She never claimed her medals, and they were stored by

Veterans Affairs in Ottawa until the hospital volunteers located them and brought them back to Bowmanville 76 years later. Perhaps there is someone viewing today who may know more details on this

topic.

I'd like to thank Mabel Emma Bruce, along with Jill Haskins and all the volunteers at Bowmanville Memorial Hospital.

MUNICIPAL RESTRUCTURING

Mr Ted McMeekin (Ancaster-Dundas-Flamborough-Aldershot): Today at sundown starts Yom Kippur. To my Jewish friends I want to say Shana Tova.

It's been a year now since the province forced amalgamation upon the good people of Ancaster, Dundas and Flamborough. I invite members to recall the government's

three-fold amalgamation commitment: first, to more efficient, effective and accountable government; secondly, to the provision of better municipal services; and finally, to the achievement of both

at lower cost and lower taxes.

Let me share what's really happened. In Flamborough, residential taxes, even with area rating, have skyrocketed some 13.8%. Thanks to the inequitable business

education tax and the burden of over $100 million of downloading and transitional costs, today our economic future is in jeopardy. Long-established businesses are fleeing for greener pastures.

Serious conflict has arisen between full-time and part-time volunteer firefighters. Just two days ago, Mayor Wade told business leaders that the unique contract provisions of this government's

unelected transition board had regrettably made personnel changes difficult, showed contempt for the responsibilities of elected officials, and will cost the city some $300,000-plus.

My constituents want their communities back. They continue to resent the undemocratic amalgamation that was forced upon them.

HATE CRIMES

Mr Peter Kormos (Niagara Centre): Since September 11, there have been some incredibly regrettable reports of attacks on Muslim people and their

mosque in the Niagara region. These reports, of course, have come from across Canada and the United States as well. So I want to stand today and condemn in no uncertain way the hatred and the

violence that have been demonstrated against members of the Muslim community in Niagara and across North America.

I know the Muslim community in Niagara. These Muslim people, women and men and their families, are our neighbours, our friends, our sisters and brothers. I want

to tell you, Speaker, that I will be at the mosque in St Catharines on Sunday. I'll be joining Zakir Ali and other Muslims and their friends in a gesture of solidarity, in a gesture of celebration

of the great contribution that Muslim people have made to Niagara region, to this country and throughout the world, and in recognition of the significance of the Islamic faith not only for people

in Niagara region and Canada, but for so many people throughout the world.

I hope and trust that the members of this assembly will permit me to speak on their behalf as well when I condemn the violence and hatred and racism that have

been displayed against Muslim people in Niagara and beyond.

CHRISTIAN HORIZONS

Mr Ted Arnott (Waterloo-Wellington): Christian Horizons, Ontario's largest provider of community services for people with disabilities,

celebrated the grand opening of its new headquarters on July 30 while the House was in recess.

From the renovated head office in Elmira, Christian Horizons leads the staff and volunteers who enhance the lives of more than 1,000 individuals per year in 150

different locations across the province. They also operate a retreat facility in Paisley that provides vacation-style fun to more than 1,000 individuals.

Christian Horizons provides a unique approach to serving people. Their objective is "to provide for the physical, social, intellectual, emotional and spiritual

welfare of the exceptional person." Christian Horizons helps lead the way because they are strongly motivated and because they bring together people from different faith backgrounds to fulfill

their mission. They insist on private sector funding and partnerships, a standard that includes the new headquarters, where they celebrated the expansion and improvement of the At The Crossroads

Restaurant and Mercantile Gift Shop.

I was honoured to speak at the opening and I congratulate Ed Cider for this historic development and on his appointment as CEO of Christian Horizons. I also want

to thank his predecessor, Noel Churchman, whom I also met with recently in his capacity as chair of corporate relations.

The new headquarters in Elmira is as much a tribute to the strong leadership of these men and their staff as it is a sign of continued growth in the provision of

services by Christian Horizons. I know all members of this House will want to congratulate the staff and the volunteers at Christian Horizons.

YOM KIPPUR

Mr David Caplan (Don Valley East): At sundown tonight, I, along with members of the Jewish community, will be celebrating Yom Kippur.

Yom Kippur, the Jewish day of atonement, is the most solemn day of the Jewish year and is observed on the 10th day of the month of Tishri. It is a day of

fasting, reflection and prayers.

On Yom Kippur, the metaphorical Book of Life is closed and sealed. Those who have repented for their sins are granted a good and happy year. This holiday is also

one of forgiveness for promises broken to God, to make amends between people and for remembrances of those who have passed on.

I know that many people, myself included, will be putting extra emphasis on remembrance this year. With the events in the world, I will be lighting an extra

candle in memory of those who were taken in the United States tragedy on September 11. Like me, many will be sharing an extra prayer in hope that the wisdom and faith that we have been endowed with

will guide us through whatever the new year brings.

I would like to extend to members of the Jewish community in Don Valley East, in the province of Ontario, across Canada and around the world a healthy, peaceful

and happy new year. Shana Tovah.

EVENTS IN NORTHUMBERLAND

Mr Doug Galt (Northumberland): Once again it's fall fair time in Ontario, and one of the best is the 27th annual Brighton Applefest taking place

in Brighton, in my riding of Northumberland, from September 27 through September 30.

Applefest events include an apple baking contest, a vintage car show, the Kinsmen pancake breakfast, the 14th annual Applefest Challenge Run and a 2 o'clock

parade. There will also be open-air concerts. The Yuk Yuk's Comedy Show and Dance will provide entertainment on Saturday evening at the King Edward arena.

There will be plenty of events aimed at children as well, including the traditional Applefest parade and historic ghost walks. There will be hayrides throughout

the weekend and a pet show on the lawn of the Proctor House Museum on Sunday afternoon.

Rural festivals such as this help bring communities together, and this is certainly true in the case of Brighton. Applefest attracts tourists, boosts the economy

and brings citizens together to celebrate community life.

I invite you to come see what Northumberland county has to offer. Join me and special guest Lance Brown from CFTO television for a weekend of family fun and

excitement at one of the best fairs Ontario has to offer, the Brighton Applefest, the original applefest.

CANCER TREATMENT

Mrs Lyn McLeod (Thunder Bay-Atikokan): Concerns about unacceptably long waits for cancer treatment continue to grow. We have known for more than

two years that the waiting time for radiation therapy was much too long.

This summer we learned that the waits for cancer surgery are equally unacceptable. Fifty per cent of cancer patients are waiting more than five weeks for

surgery; 20% wait longer than two months.

The Minister of Health responded to this incredibly shocking information with the assurance that he would solve the problem with his plan to merge cancer centres

with hospitals. The minister said the problem is not a lack of money; the problem is an inefficient cancer system.

In fact, the problem is a lack of money, a lack of hospital beds, a lack of operating room nurses, a lack of diagnostic equipment. Those problems can't be solved

by merging cancer centres with hospitals that are already facing $600 million in deficits.

In fact, the government's plan to gut our cancer centres will make the waits longer. That's exactly what the government was told yesterday by Graham Scott, who

was appointed to manage Cancer Care Ontario on an interim basis. He said that if the government goes ahead with this plan, waiting times for radiation treatment and cancer surgery will grow and

access to treatment will be uneven across the province. He also said that merging cancer centres with hospitals would lead to money being shifted from cancer care to cover costs in other areas.

The government's so-called plan for integration is really just a way of burying the problems that Cancer Care Ontario has been bringing to light. If Cancer Care

Ontario is no longer coordinating patient care and is no longer setting standards for care, we'll never know just how long patients are waiting for treatment. But a patient who is waiting for

life-saving cancer treatment will know.

It's time to abandon this foolish merger plan.

ALBERTO LA ROCCA

Mrs Tina R. Molinari (Thornhill): On Sunday, September 23, I had the privilege of attending an event in my riding of Thornhill celebrating the

courage of Alberto La Rocca, a 20-year-old carabiniere serving in Italy in 1944, who demonstrated his love for country, his respect for life and an enormous sense of altruism.

Born in Sora, Vaughan's sister city, Alberto La Rocca, together with two other young carabinieri, chose to offer his life so that the lives of 10 citizens might

be spared.

In recognition of his bravery and courage, the city of Vaughan, along with the community of Sora, worked together to officially open La Rocca Park and unveiled a

life-sized bronze statue of the young hero.

As well, to help strengthen relations between the sister cities, local families agreed to open their doors and lives to students of the community of Sora. The 60

students were invited to learn, participate and experience in the Canadian way of life, the importance of which we have all come to respect in the wake of the recent US tragedy. Unfortunately, they

were not able to take the trip as the day they were scheduled to leave Italy was September 11.

Although the students did not make the trip, some of the local dignitaries did. They are in the members' gallery, and I would like you to join me in welcoming

them: Enzo Di Stefano, regione lazio -- he's equivalent to an MPP; municipal councillor of Sora, Massimo Ascione; and the mayor of Sora, Francesco Ganino. Also accompanying them is Frank Cippolone,

who is a former councillor of Woodbridge. My mom is here as well.

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT AGENCIES

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): I beg to inform the House that today the Clerk received the 13th report of the standing committee on government

agencies. Pursuant to standing order 106(e), the report is deemed to be adopted by the House.

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

STUDENT PROTECTION ACT, 2001 /

LOI DE 2001

SUR LA PROTECTION DES ÉLÈVES

Mrs Ecker moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 101,

An Act to protect students from sexual abuse and to otherwise provide for the protection of students / Projet de loi 101, Loi visant à

protéger les élèves contre les mauvais traitements d'ordre sexuel et à prévoir autrement leur protection.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

The minister for a short statement?

Hon Janet Ecker (Minister of Education, Government House Leader): I will do it in ministers' statements.

ANTI-PRICE-GOUGING ACT, 2001 /

LOI DE 2001

CONTRE LES PRIX ABUSIFS

Mr Bartolucci moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 102,

An Act to protect consumers and prevent price-gouging in situations of crisis / Projet de loi 101, Loi visant à protéger les consommateurs et

à combattre les prix abusifs dans une situation de crise.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

The member for a short statement?

Mr Rick Bartolucci (Sudbury): The bill prohibits unjustified increases in situations of crisis, in the price of products and services needed to

protect health and safety and to protect people and property.

I introduced a similar bill two years ago, and the government didn't adopt it. I would suggest that in a time of crisis such as an ice storm, going into a new

century or in times of terrorism, people should not profit from the distress of others.

MARTYRS' SHRINE DAY ACT, 2001 /

LOI DE 2001

SUR LE JOUR DU SANCTUAIRE

DES MARTYRS CANADIENS

Mr Dunlop moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 103,

An Act to declare Martyrs' Shrine Day for Ontario / Projet de loi 103, Loi déclarant le Jour du Sanctuaire des martyrs canadiens en

Ontario.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

The member for a short statement?

Mr Garfield Dunlop (Simcoe North): This year marks the 75th year since the opening of the shrine in Midland, Ontario. The shrine continues to

promote historical information and awareness of the events of the 17th century in this province. It witnesses to the spiritual testimony of not only the early missionaries and First Nations people

but now as well to the multicultural and multi-faith celebration of that heritage.

BUILDING CODE AMENDMENT ACT

(BIKER GANG CLUBHOUSES), 2001 /

LOI DE 2001 MODIFIANT

LE CODE DU BÂTIMENT

(MAISONS DE RÉUNIONS

DE BANDES DE MOTARDS)

Mr Bryant moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 104,

An Act to amend the Building Code Act, 1992 to permit municipalities to pass by-laws prescribing standards for the use of fortifications, barricades

and surveillance equipment on property within the municipality / Projet de loi 104, Loi modifiant la Loi de 1992 sur le code du bâtiment en vue de permettre aux municipalités de

prendre des règlements municipaux prescrivant des normes pour l'utilisation de fortifications, de barricades et d'équipement de surveillance sur les biens situés dans la

municipalité.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

The member for a short statement?

Mr Michael Bryant (St Paul's): This bill authorizes municipal councils to pass bylaws prescribing standards for the use of fortifications,

barricades and surveillance equipment on property within the municipality. The purpose of the bill is to permit municipalities to address concerns regarding motorcycle gang clubhouses that can be

fortresses of crime and targets in gang warfare -- in short, the anti-biker bunker bill.

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY AND RESPONSES

STUDENT PROTECTION LEGISLATION

Hon Janet Ecker (Minister of Education, Government House Leader): One of our government's most important priorities is the protection and

safety of our young people. We must do everything we can to protect young people from sexual abuse, and that includes protecting them in our schools.

Earlier this afternoon I introduced legislation that, if passed, will help to further protect the students of this province. It is important to stress that the

vast majority of teachers have and deserve the respect of their students, parents and their communities. Unfortunately, there are some individuals who do take advantage of their positions of trust.

Today we are sending a clear message to those who would prey on our children to stay out of our schools.

The Student Protection Act is another step to do that. If approved, it will set a clear, comprehensive definition of sexual abuse so that students will be

protected from sexual harassment as well as sexual assault.

It will provide the College of Teachers, the professional body that regulates the teaching profession and governs its members, with the added authority it

needs to take strong action against those who would harm our children. It will require employers of certified teachers to report a teacher charged with a sexual offence against a student to the

Ontario College of Teachers. School boards, as well as public schools, private schools, tutoring companies or other organizations, will be required to do this if they employ teachers certified by

the Ontario College of Teachers to instruct students.

It will ensure that any teacher in a publicly funded school is removed from the classroom if he or she is charged with sexual assault against a student.

It will improve information sharing between employers and the college, making it much more difficult for a teacher who has been disciplined for sexual abuse to

quit and move from one board or school or body to another undetected. Employers of certified teachers will face fines upon conviction of up to $25,000 for breaking the reporting rules.

This proposed legislation responds to the recommendations from retired Court of Appeal Justice Sydney Robins, who reviewed the events that led to the 1996

conviction of a teacher in a public school in Sault Ste Marie. Justice Robins's 101 recommendations have been seriously reviewed both by the ministry and by many of our education partners,

including the federations, school boards, parent groups and the College of Teachers. The bill I have introduced today acts on the recommendations from Justice Robins, the college and our other

education partners.

The bill also reflects the professional and regulatory obligations currently required by law for regulated health professions in Ontario.

Much has already been done by this government to protect children, to reduce the likelihood of abuse and violence in our communities and to better protect

those who teach and work in our schools. The Student Protection Act we introduced today builds on and supports these efforts, and it will help to ensure that Ontario students are safe at

school.

I would like to thank the staff at the ministry for their work on this bill and the Ontario College of Teachers and other education partners for their advice.

I'd just like to draw to the attention of members that we have in the gallery Liz Sandals and Jeff Sprang from the Ontario Public School Boards' Association.

Mr Speaker, I think you will find that there is a great deal of consensus about the need to deal effectively and quickly with those individuals who would abuse

our children, and I would respectfully ask that all members join with me in supporting this bill.

Mr Gerard Kennedy (Parkdale-High Park): We on this side of the House welcome the minister's response made to the Robins report tabled in April

2000. There is no question that we in this party take very seriously the oversight that this Legislature extends to every classroom in this province, and that every classroom, and every child in

that classroom, should have the best protection we can afford them and whatever application of our imagination and integrity this House can provide.

We will compare very carefully the legislation we have just received to the Robins report, to the College of Teachers recommendations the minister received a

number of months ago, and make sure this is the best protection that students and anyone in the school environment can have.

We appreciate our teachers, but we understand as well that it is a trust situation from top to bottom in terms of how they are in a position of trust with the

young people of this province. We recognize that there may well be a need for additional intelligent protection to ensure that there are no loopholes, that there are no practices, that there is

nothing that can be done that would escape the notice of the authorities, which we in this House represent, ultimately.

It strikes me as passing strange and irreconcilable that this type of protection, if necessary and if worthy of our attention today, does not extend to every

classroom in this province. How can there be a lower standard? How can there be less of an interest? How can there not be the same kind of concern for children who are in directly sanctioned

private schools, who are in unregulated environments now officially sanctioned for the first time by any government anywhere in North America? Those children will not have the benefit of whatever

protection these laws will provide.

When asked at the media conference, the minister provided a very unsatisfactory initial answer, which I hope the days that attend this debate will allow her to

improve on. She said, "There are other laws to protect those kids." Well, then, what do we have in front of us? What do we have in front of us when the Minister of Education, the chief executive of

the province when it comes to the interests of school children, is unwilling?

Further, yesterday in the estimates committee we asked the minister, in that role, unique in this province, of looking after the welfare of children in

schools, if she had any recommendations to make for qualifications for private schools, anything at all she would put on the record on behalf of the people of Ontario in her role, and she declined.

Not even these very serious measures did she indicate should be part and parcel of what private schools should have applied to them.

We on this side of the House recognize that there will be no games played with this particular piece of legislation. We have in Rick Bartolucci and other

members of this caucus ideas and legislation which, to its slight credit, after a long delay, the government has adopted that are in the interests of children. But we cannot and will not rest until

this inexplicable dichotomy between the ideology of one part of the government, the Ministry of Finance, which wants to have a wild west of education, and the legislation we have in front of us is

somehow brought together, because every child in this province deserves as much protection as we can possibly provide, especially in an area that is so potentially disturbing, traumatic and

unacceptable as that involving sexual abuse.

We would ask the minister today as well to provide to this House and to the public of Ontario some indication whether we have any boards in this province that

did not adopt the protocols she asked them to adopt last spring. Just as we show our resolve to act, we do not want to be a place that fosters undue anxiety for parents or others out there. I think

people need to know and I think it's good we have with us today the president of the Ontario Public School Boards' Association. I think all four school boards have taken measures over the years.

They have recognized that there may be loopholes. They have welcomed the type of legislation we have in front of us today. But I think it's important to know that this is something every authority,

not just the provincial authority, is working on.

We look forward to working with the government to create a broad, powerful coalition that doesn't use this as any kind of wedge issue but instead brings people

together on something we absolutely agree on: all school children in this province need to be and shall be protected from sexual abuse.

Mr Rosario Marchese (Trinity-Spadina): There is no question that the New Democrats support this legislation or indeed any legislation that

would make it possible for us to protect the children who are in our care. While they are in school, they ought to be protected and need to have the protection, and any legislation that comes

forward that does that, New Democrats would support.

Teacher federations support this. Every teacher in the system obviously is supportive of this legislation, because they too care about what happens to young

people in their care.

I can't say that the minister has been as generous to teachers as teachers are generous to this government and to this minister as she introduces this

legislation. They have been whacked from one corner to the next for the last six years, yet when there are initiatives that are good, positive and important to be introduced into law, they are the

first to support this government.

New Democrats, parents and teachers are behind this piece of legislation. We say that in the public system there are 1,200 unqualified teachers who receive

letters of permission to teach and these people would be covered by this legislation, subject to this legislation. But you can't say the same of the unqualified folks who teach in the private

school system. How can you have unqualified teachers in the public system be subject to this law but this minister and this government deem it unacceptable, or at least, if not unacceptable, that

it's all right for those who aren't qualified in the private system not to be subject to the same law? It doesn't make any sense.

What we're saying to this minister is that once you give public money, in whatever way, to a private system, not a system that New Democrats support --

clearly, we do not support a private system, we do not support public dollars to a private system. If they want it, they can have it on their own and pay for it on their own. But as soon as you

decide as a government to give taxpayers' dollars to a private system, they must be subject to the same rules. And if you believe that teachers need to be tested, if you believe we need to protect

students from sexual predators, then the same rules have to apply to everyone across the province.

I just don't know how this government and this minister can justify that these people in the private system ought not to follow the same rules. If people with

letters of permission in the public system and teachers have to abide by the rules, we argue that you need to think about what you're going to do to protect those students from those possible

predators who might leave the public and the Catholic systems and find themselves in a private school that is unregulated, where you have unregulated teachers and certified teachers, and they will

not be subject to this law. You understand, Minister, you've got a problem.

Interjection.

Mr Marchese: Not you. Well, you will have a problem as a legislator, but the children indeed have a problem and potentially could have a

problem.

Earlier this year, two administrators of a Bolton private school were charged with failing to report five alleged sexual assaults at their school. In that

case, children were victimized by another student. But the point is that the people in charge of the children's safety did not report the abuse. That's the point we are making.

Mr Frank Mazzilli (London-Fanshawe): That's an offence already.

Mr Marchese: No, Frank, Mr Former Policeman, the point we're making is that the unqualified teachers in that system, in the private system,

the ones who are getting money from you and from the taxpayer, will not be subject to this law. I'm saying to you, Frank, Mr Former Policeman, you've got to talk to the Minister of Education and

convince her that the law applies to everyone across the land, particularly so now that you have decided public dollars are going to go to that private system. You have to think about it. If you're

going to protect students, you have to protect them wherever they are: the public system, and now the private system that is publicly funded.

Minister of Education, I know you're busy talking on other matters, but you should be listening to this issue because we'll be talking to you about this over

and over again, as we have talked to you about it in the past. Protect everyone and make sure that those teachers in the private system are subject to the same law.

JOHN SWEENEY

Hon Elizabeth Witmer (Minister of the Environment): It is my understanding that we have the consent of all three parties to speak for

approximately five minutes.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Is there unanimous consent? Agreed.

Hon Mrs Witmer: I will be sharing my time with the member from Kitchener Centre.

I rise today on behalf of the government to join with all members of the Ontario Legislature in recognizing the passing of Mr John Sweeney, former Minister of

Community and Social Services, Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing and member of provincial Parliament. We are very honoured to have with us in the gallery today Kay Sweeney and members of

the Sweeney family.

I first became acquainted with John Sweeney shortly after moving to Kitchener-Waterloo in 1972, when John was the director of education of the Waterloo County

Roman Catholic School Board. From that time until his passing, I developed a tremendous personal respect and admiration for his dedication, his compassion and his all-embracing commitment and

passion for his work, whether as an educator, an MPP, a cabinet minister, a trustee or a volunteer, as well as for his genuine interest in each and every human being, his faith and his tremendous

love for his family. I can tell you that he was a man who was personally an inspiration not only to me but to countless others in our community and beyond.

In everything that John accomplished, he was surrounded by the presence and the love of his family: Kay, his wife of 48 years, and his 10 children, Mary Ann,

Michael, Cathy, Stephen, Eileen, Shelagh, Peggy, Maureen, Tim and Peter.

At the provincial level and as a cabinet minister, John left a most impressive legacy to the people of our province, including his groundbreaking reforms to

make it easier for people to move off welfare, his granting native communities the power over their own child welfare agencies, and his bringing in legislation enabling adoptive children and birth

parents to find each other.

I would like to turn now to his impact on my community of Kitchener-Waterloo. Kitchener-Waterloo has a well-regarded reputation as a generous and inclusive

community, and this is due in large measure to the contributions of individuals such as John Sweeney. John made unprecedented contributions to Kitchener-Waterloo in the fields of education and

health and in numerous community organizations such as Habitat for Humanity and St Mary's hospital. In recent years, one of his most significant contributions was his close affiliation with and

support of St Jerome's University at the University of Waterloo, where he served as chancellor since 1992. It was here that John was able to continue to demonstrate his dedication to the ideals of

selfless public service.

As I reflect on his many years of selfless public service, I remember in particular that he was a tireless community builder who always applied his own

standards and his own high moral and ethical values to everything he did. He was a man who always demonstrated an unfailing belief in the inherent goodness of each and every person.

The Globe and Mail on July 13 quoted former Premier David Peterson, who offered these words about John Sweeney: "He was driven by principle, faith and love.

These three things governed his life." Those of us in this place who had the privilege of knowing John Sweeney can attest to the accuracy of this statement. As John Sweeney confronted difficult

issues, he always remained committed not only to the principles of compassion, wisdom and patience; also, he led us all by example and he always stood up for his ideals.

Despite the tremendous issues that he faced and the tremendous community commitments, Kay and John always made time for their family. I know they made a

special effort to be there for sporting events and individual pursuits. In more recent years, I know that this family love was extended to their 21 grandchildren, and John was certainly a proud and

loving grandpa.

In conclusion, I want to personally recognize John Sweeney and Kay for the tremendous impact they have had on the lives of so many others, and I want to take

this opportunity to thank their children for sharing their father with us.

Mr Wayne Wettlaufer (Kitchener Centre): It's a real pleasure to be able to rise today and pay tribute to not only a former member of

provincial Parliament for Ontario but to a man who always discharged all of his duties with honour and principle. He was a man that I am proud to say I regard as a role model for myself in

everything I do in this place.

I admired him because he had the courage to do everything that he thought was right, regardless of the consequences. When I entered the Ontario Legislature I

vowed to do likewise. I thought that maybe, just maybe, somebody would think of me in the same breath as John Sweeney when I was no longer here.

When John originally ran for the nomination of the Liberal Party against a couple of other candidates, he was then serving as the director of education for the

Waterloo County Separate School Board, and in spite of advice to the contrary, he resigned as director in order to run for that nomination because he thought it was the principled thing to do --

rather risky for a devoted father of 10.

A week ago I had lunch with a friend of mine, Tim Fitzpatrick, who was one of John's closest friends. He was also John's chief fundraiser. Tim related to me

how dedicated John was and how he had always wanted to serve where he could make a difference. Well, John certainly did that.

Tim also related to me about John's campaign signs when he ran for the nomination originally, how the signs said, "He cares." He did that too. He cared about

his family, he cared about his country, he cared about other peoples' families. He cared about his friends, his relatives, his province and he cared about all the organizations in which he had a

part of play. He cared desperately about his faith.

John Sweeney suffered a number of heart attacks, four major ones that I know of. Five years ago my own father suffered a massive coronary, and I talked to John

about what we might be able to expect insofar as behaviour, insofar as progress after the heart attack, and John spoke with me on a number of instances after that to demonstrate how much he cared.

In fact, I can remember that at one of the convocations at the University of Waterloo I was sitting beside John on the dais and the president of the university was giving a speech. John leaned over

to me and said, "How's your dad?" I say that to demonstrate John's humanness, if I can use that world. He cared about others, he was principled and he was passionate.

But he was also a human being. In some ways he was subject to some of the foibles that the rest of us are. Tim Fitzpatrick told me about an instance when the

two families rented a cottage on Stoney Lake and how one night John got lost in the boat. He had decided he didn't want a map and he got lost. I guess he made contact with a rock, and Tim took away

his boating privileges that night.

I hope that my tribute today will demonstrate how human John Sweeney was, how gloriously human. I wasn't able to attend John's funeral because I was out of

town, but I did express my sadness to Kay the night before. Their loss is shared not just by everyone in Kitchener, but it's shared by everyone in this province and in this country.

John represented Kitchener-Wilmot riding but he and Kay lived in my riding of Kitchener. They raised their family in my riding. They attended the same church

that I did for many, many years. A more devout Christian probably doesn't exist. When you look up "dignity," "honour" and "principle" in the dictionary, you're liable to see a picture of John

Sweeney.

I dropped a short line to John a couple of weeks before he died to let him know that I was thinking of him. I also stated in that letter a belief that I have,

that John's heart was just too big.

Mr Sean G. Conway (Renfrew-Nipissing-Pembroke): On behalf of Dalton McGuinty and the Liberal caucus, I'm delighted and honoured to join the

previous speakers in paying tribute to John Sweeney.

It was 26 years ago this week, thereabouts, that John and I walked into this chamber together as newly elected members of the Legislature. It was about that

time that I discovered that John Sweeney liked to talk -- and, boy, could he talk. It perhaps was the Irish blood in him, I thought to myself.

In fact, John and Kay and some of the family are here today. It's too bad Bob Nixon is not here today, because one of John's most famous speeches was at the

very beginning of his political career. The leader -- we've all been through this experience -- was invited to a big rally before polling day and, as it was expected, the leader would be the

featured speaker. Well, in Kitchener-Wilmot that night in September of 1975, it didn't quite turn out that way. John was called upon to introduce the leader, and 55 minutes later the leader got a

chance to thank the guest speaker.

Those of us who served with John can remember the sight and will recall the voice, that lean figure, the eyes darting, the finger pointing, an intensely moral

man in a very secular world.

the remarkable thing about John Sweeney was his tolerance for opposing views.

I think if there's something we have to remember about John Sweeney in this, our more modern age, it's that no matter how deeply held are your views, it is a

very useful thing, particularly in politics, to be tolerant and understanding of alternate or opposing views. It is no secret that John's views about abortion centred him out in our caucus and in

this place; very strongly held, very controversial views throughout his entire public life.

John was, in a sense, a true Gladstonian in that his were the passionate politics of conscience and he was compelled to tell you about how he was going to

reform and improve the world. Whether it was in the school system, in social welfare or in Habitat for Humanity, he meant to make a difference.

Now, he was no saint. Dare I say it, Bradley? The sinners in his caucus, with names like Conway, Bradley, Roy and Breithaupt, and many others, I could imagine

-- and I'm sorry to have to say this to you, Kay and family: behind his back we called him "the Cardinal" because he was the voice and the image of moral authority. I say to my friend Stockwell,

you would not so much as think about using bad language or bad behaviour around the Cardinal, because he was just that kind of person, private and public. You felt compelled to be a good boy or

girl. It may have been the principal, it may have been the teacher; I don't know, I say to my friend from Waterloo North. But that he was no saint you were always reminded when you went to

Kitchener-Wilmot, as I did on many happy occasions, because when you saw those Liberal partisans with names like Fitzpatrick and others, as they prepared their purposeful way to get John

re-elected, you knew you were not among an angelic host. They knew how to play this game of politics in a vigorous, forceful and winning way. John was always there, just a bit above it all, but

happy to be there on election day to gather the votes and lead the charge.

Mrs Witmer has so rightly observed that John was a man of family. I've been here for a long time as a single person, and I used to think John, whether he was a

member of our caucus or a member of cabinet, was always polite; he had always read the briefing book, and he was always not just on time but he was actually there before the meeting began. You

thought, "He's got a big department to run. He's got a wife and 10 kids. How did he do it?" Well, as Liz Witmer has observed today, if you ever knew Kay, his wonderful wife, you knew how he managed

his life, both public and private.

Let me say, as John would want it said today, that the success and the reputation that he enjoyed as a private citizen and as a public official is to a very

great degree a function of that wonderful marriage he made nearly a half-century ago. Kay, we are so delighted to see you and the family here today.

In

summary, I just want to observe something. It was about 10 years ago, I say to my friend from London North, that at a roast in Kitchener, Dianne Cunningham

was reported to have said, "How do you roast someone as decent and as honourable as John Sweeney?"

So as I take my seat today, I ask this House not to roast John, but let us celebrate a truly wonderful public life, not just in politics, but in education, and

not just in elementary and secondary; one of John's great passions in later life was St Jerome's College, Habitat for Humanity, as I mentioned earlier. He had a wonderful public life. It was for

John almost a secular ministry. He came to public life because he saw public service as a wonderfully positive end in its own right; I think a great legacy.

Let us cherish a good friend and former colleague. And let us, each and every one, try to emulate the honour, the compassion and the utter incorruptibility of

this wonderful man, John R. Sweeney, now deceased.

Mr Peter Kormos (Niagara Centre): On behalf of the New Democratic Party caucus here, I want to tell you and the Sweeneys how proud I am and

honoured indeed to have a chance to speak on behalf of this caucus, speak to and about and to remember the life and the work of John Sweeney, a man who served this Legislature and the people of

this huge province, both as a backbencher and as a cabinet minister, during a very distinguished 15 years here in this provincial assembly.

I had the opportunity, and I was blessed to have the opportunity, to know John Sweeney for a very brief time, until his retirement from here in 1990, at the

very beginning of my career here at Queen's Park. As has been said and observed, he was a man very gentle in nature, but he also possessed an incredible and discernible and quiet strength that in

that silent way very much commanded people's respect.

We in this assembly today have the opportunity to recall John Sweeney's contribution to the province as an elected member. But he was far more than just an

MPP. He served his community in so many ways: as a teacher and a superintendent and director of education; as an advocate for the homeless and the poor, indeed, the poorest, the most

disenfranchised. One of his incredible achievements right here -- and I say this in the context of recalling that when John Sweeney was a member of this assembly, this was a far different

Legislative Assembly.

The few people here who were here in that time I'm sure agree with me. It was John Sweeney and others like him who set that tone that was so very different

from what it is today. Of course, there was partisan politics, and John was as partisan as they come. But at the same time there was a collegiality and a mutual respect; that has been spoken to

already as well.

There was a driving passion by John Sweeney that he expressed so clearly here in the assembly and through his work as a minister to make sure that it was not

just the suited and the well-dressed who had their day in Ontario. His welfare reforms, for instance, were designed, among other things -- and they did do this; by God, they did do this -- to help

eliminate the stigmatization of merely being poor. John understood that, didn't he? He felt that in a very visceral sort of way, and he knew it was wrong to stigmatize people and to knock them down

because they suffered the misfortune of poverty. He knew that the right thing to do was to lend them dignity and to ensure that they had a chance to share some of the great prosperity that exists

in this province.

Every newspaper obituary has referred to his comments upon his resignation as a member of the Legislative Assembly, his departure from here in 1990, where he

said he wanted a chance to "smell the roses." For a gentleman who had already spent 15 years in this assembly, who expressed an interest in smelling the roses, he became incredibly occupied in his

community and beyond in ongoing service to so many people and on behalf of so many organizations and constituencies. One of the areas that certainly stands out was his incredible effort on the part

of affordable housing. I'm proud to tell you, and I hope the Sweeney family is even prouder of the fact, that John Sweeney was one of the people who was at the forefront in putting housing back on

the public agenda back in his day.

Looking back on John Sweeney's career inside provincial politics and in so many other ways in his own community and across the province, the words that clearly

come to mind for everybody who knew him or who had a chance to share some space with him are words like "integrity" and "incredible competence" and "consistency." I know, because I saw him and his

work here and I was able to see what he did after leaving the Legislature, that John Sweeney was a man of incredible principle, profound principle. He was a man who could be relied upon to act with

absolute clarity of purpose and a clean conscience. His political and his moral convictions were deeply felt and he approached every one of the difficult issues that he had to confront in the

course of his work here and his work subsequent to Queen's Park with honesty and integrity. His moral convictions and his value system, he understood full well, weren't necessarily shared by the

community that he was in, but he didn't park them or set them aside for even the briefest of moments in the pursuit of political goals or political expediency. He lived with what was in reality the

burden of those values when it came to the impact of those values and his moral beliefs on his goals and ambitions.

In that respect, I put to you that we should reflect on that and contrast, every one of us, our pursuit of our own ambitions and the extent to which any of us

may have or may in the future from time to time set aside convictions, set aside values in a way that John Sweeney never did, never would, and in a way that in his own heart I'm sure he deplored,

and beyond deploring, he simply found unimaginable.

John Sweeney was a man who truly believed in the goodness of his fellow human being. He did. And I believe that it was those convictions of his, those values

that guided him both as a Minister of Housing as well as a Minister of Social Services. John Sweeney believed in empowering people to better their own lives, and he implemented policies aimed at

supporting people as they worked toward improving their individual economic situations.

As we've heard from so many here already today -- it's unanimous -- John Sweeney was widely respected. He was one of those politicians -- and they're very few

and far between -- who had the respect of both sides of this House. In fact, both the New Democratic Party and Conservative governments called upon John Sweeney to provide advice and direction on

issues where John Sweeney had experience and expertise. The NDP government called upon him to head up the Ontario School Board Reduction Task Force, which looked at the structure of the education

system across the province. Although he concluded -- he did -- that the number of school boards in Ontario should be reduced, he also made a very strong recommendation to this province to maintain

equitable funding for boards across the province.

Mr Sweeney not only felt close to his community but he was very much a part of that community. He was inseparable from his Irish Catholic heritage, and in that

respect I hope I do some justice to the words of poet George William Russell, The Everlasting Battle. I think it's appropriate. I hope you agree.

When in my shadowy hours I pierce

the hidden heart of hopes and fears,

They change into immortal joys

or end in immemorial tears.

Moytura's battle still endures

and in this human heart of mine

The golden sun powers with the might

of demon darkness intertwine....

But in the lightning flash of hope

I feel the sungod's fiery sling

Has smote the horror in the heart

where clouds of demon glooms take wing,

I shake my heavy fears aside

and seize the flaming sword of will,

I am of Dana's race divine

and know I am immortal still.

On behalf of New Democrats here and those who aren't here any more and people across this province who have been blessed with the direction and wisdom and

guidance of John Sweeney, with his friendship, with his companionship, with his collegiality, please let me express our most sincere condolences and our gratitude to you for having shared him with

us. Thank you, friends.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): I thank all members for their comments today and I will ensure copies of today's Hansard are forwarded to Mr

Sweeney's family.

ORAL QUESTIONS

ONTARIO ECONOMY

Mr Dalton McGuinty (Leader of the Opposition): My question is for the Minister of Finance. Yesterday, you and the Premier told Ontario's

working families that they didn't have to worry about the economy. You told them the economy was strong and healthy, there was no need to revise the government's financial plan, and everything was

on track. Today, Air Canada laid off another 5,000 employees, making 9,000 now in total laid off. Bombardier laid off 650 of its Toronto workforce. That's on top of the 450 they laid off earlier

this month. Chrysler is going to be announcing next week that they will be laying off approximately 6,500 on a temporary basis. That's on top of thousands already laid off in the auto sector.

Minister, will you now admit that our economy is not nearly as strong as you thought it would be and it now demands that you change your original financial

plan?

Hon Jim Flaherty (Deputy Premier, Minister of Finance): As usual, the member opposite is confused. It is clear that the Ontario budget for

this year is on track. When one is speaking about the budget, one is looking at the revenues and the expenditures: will they be in balance come the end of the year? I indicated to the Leader of the

Opposition yesterday that the answer to that is yes.

The federal finance minister apparently is bailing and is saying no, but we can't compare with the federal finance minister since the federal finance minister

has not done a budget. We did a budget in the province of Ontario. Progressive Conservatives budget; Liberals don't budget. That's the problem when we try to do a comparison with the federal

Liberals.

On the revenue side we are on track. Of course, there will be consequences to the economic slowdown. Of course, there are consequences, certainly in the short

term, to the tragic events of September 11. That's self-evident.

Mr McGuinty: Minister, you continue to maintain that the economy is healthy and strong. Those are your words. I can tell you that Ontario

families and Ontario businesses strongly disagree with your opinion. They don't want to hear about your advice for the federal government; they want to know what you are going to do on their

behalf, starting now.

Your advice yesterday to families was to go on with their lives and keep spending money. You will know that consumer confidence is a fragile thing at the best

of times, and consumers and families see signs all around them that our economy is at least slowing. I believe that the job of government, and specifically your job, is to help inspire confidence

in our consumers and in our families, and that means showing our families that you are on the ball, you recognize that the economy is slowing substantially and that, rather than standing there like

a deer in the headlights, you are going to do something about it.

I put forward two specific proposals. If you don't like those, what specifically are you going to do, knowing what Ontario families and businesses know, that

our economy is slowing and you have to do something?

Hon Mr Flaherty: What is the question in that? The member opposite says that the economy is slowing. Indeed, the economy is slowing. Indeed,

we planned in our assumptions to take into account the fact that the economy is slowing.

Am I going to be negative like the member opposite? Am I going to say to the people of Ontario that it's all gloom and doom? No, I'm not, because since 1995,

Premier Harris and our team have made the difficult decisions, resulting in lower taxes, resulting in lower inflation, prudent fiscal management and three balanced budgets in a row. So Ontario is

in a better position to withstand slower economic growth, which we have, than it has been for generations.

Mr McGuinty: Families are rightfully worried about the economy, but I think one of the things they are particularly worried about now, as is

business, is the fact that you're not worried, Minister. They see people around them losing their jobs. They hear from economists confirming that the economy was already slowing before the events

of September 11.

There are two things you should be doing now. Number one, admit that we have a problem in terms of the strength of our economy. Stop maintaining in the face of

all evidence to the contrary that it is strong and healthy.

Second, take action. Meet with business leaders and labour leaders to hear from them and get their best possible advice. We are moving in uncharted waters. Try

to put together a plan to meet this new challenge.

Finally, we need an updated fiscal and economic plan. I don't think that's being negative; I think that's being responsible. Those are the kinds of things that

consumers and business are looking for.

Hon Mr Flaherty: The Leader of the Opposition suggests to me that I should admit, in his view, that the Ontario economy is weak. If it were

1990, at the end of the last Liberal government, I would say yes, the Ontario economy is weak. And why was it weak? It was weak because they raised taxes every year. It was weak because they

increased the sales tax from 7% to 8%. It was weak because despite record revenues, they increased deficits, year after year after year.

That's provincial Liberal economic management in the province of Ontario. That is your record, and you dare to give advice to a Progressive Conservative,

responsible government about how to deal with economic slowdown. I tell you, the people of Ontario know better. They know who they can trust for prudent fiscal management, particularly in more

difficult times.

BORDER SECURITY

Mr Dalton McGuinty (Leader of the Opposition): My question is for the Minister of Economic Development and Trade. Yesterday, Minister, you

were asked about the economic impact of delays at our borders and your answer provided cold comfort to Ontario families and businesses. You said, "In Ontario, the export of goods and services tops

$200 billion annually. Fully 93% of these exports are destined for the United States. That translates into approximately 1.5 million Ontario jobs that depend directly on trade with the United

States."

Minister, the problem isn't with what you said; it's with what you failed to say. You did not take the opportunity to tell us what, if anything, you are doing

to secure that trade. I want to give you the opportunity now to stand and tell us specifically what actions you have taken, not only in light of the fact that the economy is slowing down but in

light of the events of September 11. What are you doing to protect our economic lifeblood: the trade between Ontario and the US?

Hon Robert W. Runciman (Minister of Economic Development and Trade): We are doing quite a bit in this regard. In fact, we started on this

issue early in June, much prior to the September 11 terrorist attacks in the United States.

We recognize the concern in terms of the importance of cross-border traffic for our economy and the economies of various states in the United States, which was

raised at the New York-Ontario summit. That report has not yet been completed, but it will be. The report has been finalized with the exception of the final approval of New York State authorities.

All of us on this side of the House can understand the delay in that with respect to the final sign-off on the recommendations flowing from that report. Last week we met with officials who are

involved in cross-border transportation in a whole range of areas and they are meeting today as we speak.

Mr McGuinty: Minister, we are the most export-driven economy in the world. Some 1.5 million Ontario jobs depend directly on trade with the US.

We have got to keep the free flow of goods and people between our two jurisdictions.

Here are two specific things I'm putting to you, Minister, that I'd ask you to consider in terms of substantive actions that you should be taking now. The

first thing that you should do is lobby the Minister of Finance to accelerate capital projects that might help relieve congestion at the Windsor-US border. As you know, in a just-in-time world,

congestion is a job killer. I think that's a substantive, positive proposal.

The second thing that I would ask you to do is to initiate an emergency meeting with Governors Pataki and Engler and representatives of federal governments so

that you might put together a plan to protect the free flow of trade between Ontario and the US.

Those are two positive, substantive things that I think we should be moving on, and I put those to you.

Hon Mr Runciman: I appreciate the advice and we'll take it under consideration. But I should, on the record, point out the fact that this is

the party that ran a provincial election opposed to free trade. I think we should emphasize that point.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Order. It's too noisy. The member for London-Fanshawe, come to order. The member for Niagara Centre, I think, was

right: it was less than a minute before we started shouting after the last speeches.

Hon Mr Runciman: We're certainly going to be very actively exploring what we can do at the provincial level to improve cross-border traffic.

But I should point out that yesterday in Washington the Attorney General for the United States, in testimony before a congressional committee, before the judiciary committee of the US Senate, said

that the border with Canada is undermanned and rather porous. I think that is a real and legitimate concern that many of us in this province very much understand, but the federal government has yet

to come to grips with it. If I can offer some advice to my friend across the floor, why does he not get on the phone with his friends in Ottawa and say, "Do something meaningful about the border

situation in this country"?

The Speaker: The minister's time is up.

Mr McGuinty: If Ontario's Minister of Finance and Ontario's Minister of Economic Development and Trade are so fixated with federal economic

policy, then why didn't they seek seats in the federal government? The people of Ontario have entrusted you with a job to protect our economic interests. The time for inaction is over; the time for

action is here.

Minister, we live in a just-in-time world today. If we can't get our supplies over to the other side of the border in time, they're going to get the supplies

down there and we're going to lose jobs. On the other hand, if we can't get parts from the States up here for our finished products in time, we're going to lose jobs. That is what's at stake. The

free flow of people and goods between our borders is our economic lifeblood. Some 93% of our exports go to the south.

We need some action from you. I put forward two positive proposals: an emergency meeting with the governors; and, on top of that, there's another opportunity

for you to do everything --

The Speaker: The member's time is up.

Hon Mr Runciman: I indicated that I appreciated the advice being offered, and we will --

Interjections.

The Speaker: OK, folks, I gave a little leeway. Now we're going to start throwing people out. I'm going to pick people out. Both sides are

starting. Typical of what happens, as one starts to elevate it, the next one elevates it. We're now at the point where I can't hear anything, because all you're doing is shouting. You're not even

listening to your own leaders or your own ministers.

Hon Mr Runciman: I indicated in my second response that I appreciated the advice being offered, and we will take it under consideration. But

at the New York-Ontario summit in June, we had a very large forum on this issue. We had experts from throughout North America. Certainly a lot of the focus was on the federal government. We cannot

avoid that issue. We've had situations where we've now had the Attorney General in front of a US Senate committee saying how porous the border is. We had reports from the Canadian intelligence

service --

Mr Richard Patten (Ottawa Centre): It's their border.

Mr Bruce Crozier (Essex): It's their border.

The Speaker: Order. The member for Essex, this is his last warning. The member for Ottawa Centre as well. Last warning for both of you. We're

not going to have this. I gave you the warning. I don't care what comments you make. I can't be keeping track of people. I warned you, and I was very patient. Typically, I let you go; and when I

let you go, each side goes too far. Now I'm going to clamp down. Last warning to both of you, and the same for the other side. If you start shouting out and interrupting each other, you'll go for

the afternoon. It's as simple as that.

Minister?

Hon Mr Runciman: I'll give you another example of the co-operation that has been lacking on the Canadian side. US customs officials, in terms

of pre-clearance to expedite commercial traffic across the border, have offered to set up pre-clearance stations in Canada. But because Canadian officials will not allow the American officers to

enter Canadian property wearing side arms, we simply haven't been able to proceed on that issue. That's a very basic sort of thing that the Canadian government has refused to do. I'm saying to that

gentleman across the floor, talk to --

The Speaker: The minister's time is up.

COMPETITIVE ELECTRICITY MARKET

Mr Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): My question is for the Deputy Premier. Today in Ontario, jobs are being cut hard and fast: 5,000 at

Air Canada, 3,800 at Bombardier. People are looking for a signal that your government understands the seriousness of the situation. They don't get a signal of that. What they get is your government

persisting with a plan to sell off our electricity system.

Recent experience in the United States tells us that selling off the electricity system increases prices of electricity and kills jobs. Electricity is a

backbone of Ontario's economy. Deputy Premier, tell us, why does your economic plan continue to include an electricity strategy that will sell off our electricity system, force up the prices and

kill more jobs?

Hon Jim Flaherty (Deputy Premier, Minister of Finance): The Minister of Energy, Science and Technology would like to answer the question.

Hon Jim Wilson (Minister of Energy, Science and Technology): To the honourable member, nothing could be further from the truth. In over 40

jurisdictions, including 23 American states that have introduced some element of competition in their electricity sectors, prices have gone down or they've been better than what they otherwise

would have been under the old monopoly systems.

Your government had an opportunity during your five years in office to do something about electricity prices, about supply, reliability and safety, and you did

nothing except increase Ontario Hydro's monopoly debt to some $38 billion. Today, 30% of people's hydro bill coming into their homes is used to pay toward that debt. That's a portion of the bill

that we want to see shrink over the next few years as we make increased payments toward that old monopoly debt and as new businesses come into Ontario, and new jobs come into Ontario, that will

allow us to supply competitively priced electricity. That has been the majority experience throughout the world for those who have gone down this road. We're learning from the mistakes of others

where there have been problems, but we intend to do it right in Ontario.

Mr Hampton: Same old story. A year and a half ago you were in here telling us that California was the state to follow. Then privatization and

deregulation there were a massive screw-up.

Then you referred to Pennsylvania. But now the Consumer Federation of America has looked at Pennsylvania, and since the price caps have come off, electricity

prices have shot up there. It's the same in New York, Montana and Massachusetts, and 22 states in the United States are now saying, "We want nothing to do with deregulation of the electricity

system." Yet you persist.

This is a letter from Stelco. Stelco wrote to you and they pointed out that what you've done so far -- increasing electricity rates -- cost them an extra $10

million this year that they can't recover from anywhere else.

How much more do you want to increase electricity prices? How many more jobs do you want to kill at Stelco or Falconbridge or elsewhere, Minister? It hasn't

worked in the United States. Send industries and consumers in Ontario a signal that you're not going to sell off the electricity system, you're not going to do what they did in California,

Pennsylvania, New York and Massachusetts. That would be a good economic policy. Will you do it?

Hon Mr Wilson: I recall President Clinton some three years ago, in espousing the benefits that had occurred in the United States, reminding

the Congress that prices had fallen, become more competitive, that old debts were being paid off in the old monopoly systems, like the old Ontario Hydro system we used to have, and that the number

of jobs in the electricity sector in the United States had doubled. So I would hope the honourable member would get his facts straight.

The other thing is the states he mentioned. He is in error in mentioning those states where prices have gone down. Yes, Pennsylvania hasn't had a high degree

of retail participation in the competitive market. That may happen in Ontario also. People may be very happy with their current supplier.

You know, I've never switched from Bell as my current supplier, my supplier over the years, but AT&T and Sprint have consistently forced down that old

monopoly, as the federal government opened up that market, to go from 10 cents a minute to seven cents a minute; it's darned near zero cents a minute now to make a long distance call. I stayed with

my old supplier, but competition made that old supplier smarten up, get its prices down and offer more choices to consumers.

The telecommunications industry is a good example of an old monopoly broken up --

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): The minister's time is up.

Mr Hampton: It's about electricity, and it's about how essential electricity is to the economy of Ontario.

When you boasted about California, California is spending billions of dollars today buying back their electricity system. That's after spending billions of

dollars trying to overcome the rolling brownouts and the blackouts, and they're trying to get billions of dollars back from the very corporations that you talk so highly of that ripped off

consumers and ripped off industry.

It is undeniable. The Consumer Federation of America points out that almost everywhere in the United States anyone who is advocating privatization and

deregulation of the electricity system is now saying either no or, "Let's slow this down as much as we can and take a very close second look."

Are you going to do what Alberta did when prices go through the roof: offer $4 billion and $5 billion in subsidies so that people and industries can afford to

purchase electricity? You owe people in Ontario an answer. Are you going to follow California and Alberta and watch electricity prices go up --

The Speaker: Minister?

Hon Mr Wilson: We've made it very clear in this province that Ontario is not California. An independent market survey of availability or

supply of electricity in this province shows that Ontario has adequate supply over the next few years.

This government, in preparing for adding more jobs and increasing the strength of our economy, needs to plan ahead, unlike governments in the past or unlike

California, where they find themselves in a supply crunch. We need today to begin to plan to build those new generating facilities for the future. The private sector has announced some $3.6 billion

worth of new jobs, new generating capacity. That's a better record than any other jurisdiction at this stage of introducing competition into their market.

I don't think the employees at Bruce, for example, where the union owns 5% of that deal which has to do with deregulation, would agree they lost jobs. I think

the people of the Bruce area, who are a good example of where competition is working, would say they've gained jobs and in fact saved hundreds of jobs in that community.

The Speaker: The minister's time is up.

TRANSIT SERVICES

Mr Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): My question is for the Deputy Premier. We understand that you are now going to provide provincial

funding for GO Transit in the greater Toronto area. We understand that you finally recognize that urban transit is a foundation of the urban economy and you finally recognize that municipalities on

their own cannot provide the full costs of urban transit. If this is true, then New Democrats say this is good news. What took you so long?

But if you're going to do it for GO Transit, there's another part of the equation. The Toronto Transit Commission, the TTC, is also essential to the urban

economy. It's essential to ensure that people can get to work and get home from work and participate in the economy in an affordable way. So if it's good for GO Transit, why wouldn't it also be

good for your government to pick up some of the cost of the TTC? Can you announce both of them, Minister, and treat all municipalities the same?

Hon Jim Flaherty (Deputy Premier, Minister of Finance): The Minister of Transportation will answer that.

Hon Brad Clark (Minister of Transportation): I thank the honourable member for the question. I'm slightly confused, however, about the

question in itself, because the member himself still has not recognized that our government all along has been investing in public transit. As a matter of fact, we have invested, since 1995, $3.2

billion -- that's billion, with a "b" -- into public transit. So I'm a little bit curious why he believes we haven't.

As a matter of fact, he's so friendly with the TTC, I'll ask one of the pages to take this over to him. It's a wonderful poster that's been on many of the TTC

outlets, and it has actually a very good picture of the Premier, Mike Harris, thanking him for his investment in the TTC.

Mr Hampton: I appreciate that the Minister of Transportation is new to his job, but some of his officials had better give him a briefing

fairly quickly. The reality is that urban transit systems virtually across this province have been downloaded by your government, and the reality for Toronto is that the TTC, which is an essential

economic foundation stone of this largest urban area in Canada, has been totally downloaded on to the municipal property tax base.

I simply say to you, if you recognize now that downloading GO Transit was a mistake, that it doesn't work, that it will not equip the greater Toronto area with

the transportation infrastructure it needs, are you also going to recognize that the Toronto Transit Commission must also receive adequate funding from the province?

Let me give you a suggestion: implement an Ontario transportation trust fund. Put some of the money from the gas tax, which you keep, into that trust fund so

that municipalities can afford to fund their transit systems.

Will you treat the TTC on the same basis as GO Transit in terms of provincial funding?

Hon Mr Clark: Once again I thank the member for his question. I feel sorry for him that he appears to suffer from selective memory and

selective hearing. I just finished stating very clearly, very slowly, that we have invested $3.2 billion into public transit since 1995. If the member opposite is so concerned about urban transit,

then he would be equally intrigued to know that the federal government contributed $7 million -- that's with an "m" -- since 1995, which equates to 0.02% of what we contributed to public

transit.

Very clearly the leader of the third party doesn't seem to understand that we have been there for transit all along, we continue to be there for transit all

along, and we'll continue to support it. The TTC recognizes it; maybe the member should talk to them.

BIRTH CERTIFICATES

Mr Dalton McGuinty (Leader of the Opposition): My question is for the Minister of Consumer and Business Services. I want to bring something to

your attention which I believe you will want to act on immediately. Given that the issue of personal security weighs so heavily on the minds of Ontarians, when it comes to applying for a birth

certificate today in Ontario, we only need to provide the name, place of birth, mother's name at birth, father's name, and nothing further. There's no identification of any kind required. This is

submitted by mail with $15.

I'll tell you why it's so important: because once you get the birth certificate, that's an important step along the way to a passport. As well, to get into the

US, in many, many cases all you need is a birth certificate.

Again, no identification whatsoever is required, separate corroboration, for the identity of the applicant; just complete this form, and 15 bucks gets you a

birth certificate.

I think there's a loophole there, Minister. I think we should now be, especially in light of the events of September 11, more stringent, and I would ask you to

address this.

Hon Norman W. Sterling (Minister of Consumer and Business Services): I do not believe that to be the case. I believe there are additional

information and requirements needed in order to obtain a birth certificate, but I will have to get back to the member, and promise to do that in the future.

I do know that, for instance, in a birth in Ontario, a doctor has to validate that the birth has taken place and who that particular child's father and mother

are, and therefore there is a fairly rigorous process. But I would be glad to look into that allegation. I don't believe it to be the case. We are, however, reviewing the whole procedure and

updating that procedure at the present time.

Mr McGuinty: Minister, I'll tell you what our 103 constituency offices are doing. We facilitate these applications. If you apply in person,

you have to provide two pieces of identification, but if you apply to the source in Thunder Bay, you can apply by fax or by mail and all you need to provide is this form and $15. I would ask you to

carefully look into this, Minister, and if my understanding is correct, I would ask you to take immediate action to close this loophole.

Hon Mr Sterling: I think there may be either an unintentional or intentional effort here to confuse the issues. I don't know whether the

member is talking about the issuance of an original birth certificate or the replacement of a birth certificate. If we're talking about the original, I think he's got the wrong process, but I'll be

glad to get back to him on that.

ONTARIO ECONOMY

Mrs Tina R. Molinari (Thornhill): My question is for the Minister of Finance, Jim Flaherty. Minister, this question is very similar to the one

that the Leader of the Opposition has been consistently asking, but let me make it clear that's the only similarity between us.

In the last two weeks, I've spoken with many concerned business owners and residents in my riding. They tell me they are pleased with the Premier's comments

and our government's response to assist the victims of terrorist acts in the United States. They are also very concerned about the current state of the economy in light of the terrorist attacks in

the United States.

Minister, can you tell my constituents of Thornhill what effect these attacks will have on the Ontario economy?

Hon Jim Flaherty (Deputy Premier, Minister of Finance): I thank the member for Thornhill for the question. Unlike the Leader of the

Opposition, I'm not negative about Ontario. I think we have a strong foundation. Our economy certainly has a strong foundation. We have a diverse, resilient economy in Ontario.

The tragedies of September 11 of course have an impact on Ontario. Our largest trading partner is the United States. That impact hopefully will be largely in

the short term, but we're monitoring it carefully, making sure that we observe all of the data as they come in so that we can respond accordingly.

The economic forecasts of course are being reduced. The predictions with respect to economic growth in Ontario for this year are being reduced by the private

sector forecasters, which is to be expected in light of two factors: the economic slowdown that was anticipated, and the tragic events of September 11.

Mrs Molinari: Thank you very much for the response, Minister. These same Thornhill residents and business owners have expressed to me that

they have benefited as a result of this government's direction in investing in a strong economy by cutting taxes, which has created jobs. Many of those jobs are in Thornhill. Thornhill parents have

lobbied for and will benefit from the education credit once it is implemented. They are now deeply concerned and want to know if this unforeseen attack will throw off your fiscal plan.

Hon Mr Flaherty: I thank the member for Thornhill again for the question. In the budgeting process in Ontario this year we built in a reserve.

The reserve, which has been built into all our budgets since 1995, is designed to address contingencies, unforeseen circumstances, slowdown in economic growth. That reserve may well have to be used

during the current fiscal year, as it is intended to be used, in order to arrive at a balanced budget. That's important. That's prudent fiscal planning done by the government of Ontario.

We do have low, competitive taxes. We have two major stimuli in the economy now: continuing tax reductions, which have been in place in Ontario since the

beginning of 1995-96 and more recently by the federal government, and the very substantial infrastructure spending by this government that is happening now: hospitals, universities, colleges -- in

excess of $2 billion going into the economy as a result of previous good capital planning by the government.

HATE CRIMES

Mr Michael Bryant (St Paul's): My question is for the Attorney General. It's on hate crimes. No one could have anticipated the number of hate

crimes that are taking place in Ontario right now because nobody could have anticipated the events of September 11. We're in this new world. We cannot bury our heads in the sand, but I think we

ought to be careful also not to fan the embers of fear. So let's look at the facts.

Hate crimes have tripled, at least in Toronto, since September 11 -- tripled. There have been incidents reported in Ottawa, Oshawa, St Catharines, Toronto and

Hamilton, among other cities. There is also a great fear, especially within the Canadian Muslim community. Events are being cancelled. It is not just one community; it is really all visible

minorities.

In this new reality, in this new world, you are charged with the administration of justice. What changes are you making to respond to this new rash of hate

crimes in Ontario?

Hon David Young (Attorney General, minister responsible for native affairs): I thank the member opposite for the question. This is a very

serious matter, and on every occasion possible I have spoken out about what I find to be irresponsible, reprehensible examples, the worst type of examples, of individuals within our society. By and

large, we have a society that is respectful of everyone, as it should be. The member is quite right that there have been some instances, few and far between, but some instances of hatred that have

been demonstrated. That sort of mindless, wanton activity will not be tolerated. I have spoken to a number of representatives from the police forces across this province, who are taking this very

seriously, who are conducting investigations. If and when they come to me with information that would suggest a charge is warranted, I will give it due and proper consideration. It will be

prioritized.

Mr Bryant: In this time of fear and insecurity, it's important for people to be briefed, to the extent to which the justice ministers can, on

an ongoing basis, to provide information about hate crime incidents, perhaps correct some myths, provide updates on arrests and perhaps convictions and prosecutions. I haven't been able to

determine whether or not there is a hate crimes database province-wide, but if we don't have one, I think we're going to need one.

Hate crimes officers and prosecutors specializing in hate crimes in Ontario: if we have triple the hate crimes right now, clearly we're going to have to have

more officers in place, particularly for those regions outside of the major urban centres in the province.

I think we also have to do what we can to prevent hate crime through education campaigns in the public schools and at the doorstep. There is much that we can

do. I hope the Attorney General takes these and many other calls for reforms to update the administration of justice for hate crimes. I'd like to know which, if any, of these reforms the ministry

may be looking to or be given some specific examples of ways in which we are making those reforms.

Hon Mr Young: The member opposite raises some good points. I'm certainly prepared to sit down and talk to him about some of the initiatives he

has referenced this day. I will, though, if I may, also talk about some initiatives that we have come forward with.

In October 1998, there was a federal-provincial-territorial conference at which all of the Attorneys General from across Canada -- that's all of the provincial

Attorneys General and those from the territories -- agreed that the Criminal Code should be amended in order to reflect what we at that time anticipated may be a growing problem in certain regions.

We all agreed. We presented it to the federal Liberal government at that time and asked them to expedite passage of these amendments. Unfortunately, the silence has been deafening. There has been

no such amendment. Frankly, I'm not even sure they have drafted any bills that would allow us to do what the member opposite indicates, and I agree, should be done.

TOURISM

Mr Bart Maves (Niagara Falls): My question is for the Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation. As we begin to come to terms with the

tragedy of September 11, one of the things that has surfaced in my riding is the effect on tourism. Tourist attractions in my riding, as well as the hotels, restaurants, travel agents and shops

that rely on tourism, have seen a drop in attendance. What can you tell me about the impacts this tragedy is having and will have on the tourism industry?

Hon Tim Hudak (Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation): I thank the member from Niagara Falls for the question. I certainly appreciate

the efforts he's making in his community to come to grips with the impact on tourism, especially from delays at the border that we experience in the aftermath of the terrorist attack of September

11. Certainly I want to say, as a member representing a border area in this province with many families directly impacted by the terrorist attack, that my heart is with them, our friends and

colleagues and friends across the border.

And certainly it was an attack not simply on the United States but an attack on all of us. No doubt the member is right: as soon as the attack took place, the

world stood still. Travel was suspended and immediately after that we saw some delays at the border. My view is we can't let the terrorists win and keep us in our homes. I'd encourage Ontarians who

are looking to travel across this province to go to the Oktoberfest, the Butterfly Gallery, or Winterfest in Fort Erie and to continue to do so. We are a safe and secure jurisdiction. We want to

make sure it continues to be a safe and secure jurisdiction and to invest in this industry.

Mr Maves: Thank you, Minister, for that answer. Our Premier said earlier this week that we must not let those who carried out these evil acts

succeed in their goal of undermining our way of life. Ontario's strong, vibrant industries, including tourism, have always been a vital part of our way of life. Can you tell this House and my

constituents what you are doing in your role as Minister of Tourism to address this situation?

Hon Mr Hudak: Again, I appreciate the member's question. In fact, immediately after the attack we ensured that our offices stayed open

extended hours. We kept the 1-800 line open longer to reassure tourists considering travelling to Ontario and within Ontario that we are safe. We kept updates on the borders in terms of waits,

which are way down. Tourists coming across the border should not have concerns about waits at the border and should continue their travel to the province of Ontario.

We are monitoring on a daily basis statistics from our areas in terms of how they're feeling the impact on us of the attack of September 11. I'm calling

together tourism stakeholders from across this province and from the regions, the major industries like the hotel and motel association, on Friday. Meetings are going on today as well to make sure

that we have a plan in place to respond, to get the word out of the great attractions we have here in the province to encourage those in Ontario or who are coming to visit they should continue to

do so and to spend money in our hotels, our attractions and our communities to help to continue to grow what was an outstanding summer up until the events of September 11.

EDUCATION FUNDING

Mr Rosario Marchese (Trinity-Spadina): To the Minister of Education: your Premier, in my view, deserves a failing grade for his fabricated

education numbers. This year's public accounts show-

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Order. You've got to withdraw the word "fabricated."

Mr Marchese: Withdrawn, Speaker.

This year's public accounts show that in 2001, you spent $7.965 billion. That's $60 million less than in the year 2000. The figures belie your claim that

you're investing more in our schools. Why are you spending less?

Hon Janet Ecker (Minister of Education, Government House Leader): First of all, I'm surprised the honourable member from the opposition party

has that little faith in our Provincial Auditor. Provincial spending on education is up. For example, in 1995, we were spending $12.9 billion on our education system. Today, we are spending $13.8

billion. Even with the NDP math, that is an increase. That is also an increase that is larger than the growth of enrolment in the schools which, again, I think proves the intent of this government

to continue to invest in public education, that it is indeed a priority for us. We will continue to keep it the main and major priority of this government because it underpins not only economic

prosperity in this province but it also underpins our quality of life.

Mr Marchese: I have full faith in this document, and I'm reading from it. It is page 31. It says that in the actual year 2000, you were

spending $8.024 billion, and the actual spending in 2001 is $7.965 billion. I have absolute faith in the numbers.

Hugh Mackenzie, an economist, has said that you are spending $2.3 billion less now, accumulated over your stint in government, than you did before. Everyone

involved in education knows that except you, the Premier and your members there. You're spending less on education and the effects are being felt in the classroom. What we need is a student-based

funding formula that will lift student achievement. That's what people, educators and parents want. Parent groups and educators are telling me this. I'm sure they're telling you the same thing. Are

you going to listen?

Hon Mrs Ecker: I had thought we had provided a briefing for the NDP party on how education is financed. You're talking about half of what gets

put into education. It's not $7 billion or $8 billion; it's $13.8 billion. That's the first point.

Secondly, yes, I am familiar with the report that particular Mr Mackenzie put out. He put in an inflation factor that included things like the price increase

in the cost of cigarettes. The last time I checked, school boards weren't purchasing cigarettes for their kids.

Finally, maybe he wants to measure the success of how our students learn by how much we spend, but how much we spend does not mean the kids learn better. It's

what they're taught in the classroom; it's the curriculum they have; it's the quality of their teaching; it's the quality of the parental involvement; it's the ability to measure and test; it's the

ability to put strategies in place. The research and best practices are very clear: that's what improves student achievement.

COMMUNITY CARE ACCESS CENTRES

Mrs Leona Dombrowsky (Hastings-Frontenac-Lennox and Addington): My question is for the associate Minister of Health and Long-Term Care. Last

week the Kingston, Frontenac, Lennox and Addington Community Care Access Centre placed an ad in the Kingston Whig-Standard that informs the public of its plan to significantly reduce admissions to

home health care for several weeks, beginning on September 17, 2001. It further directs that if an individual is expecting to have a medical procedure that may require nursing or other health

services at home, to contact their physician to discuss their plans. Administrators in the local hospitals clearly indicate that this announcement will result in delays for surgeries, block

admissions to hospital and lengthen hospital stays.

The CCAC decided to limit admissions after it was told by your ministry that it must live within its base budget of $25 million. Clearly, the withdrawal of

service is as a result of your underfunding. You have forced this CCAC to restrict essential health services for a period of six weeks. Will you commit today to answer the need so desperate within

this community and provide the dollars that they need to operate the CCAC and meet the needs of the people in our community?

Hon Helen Johns (Minister without Portfolio [Health and Long-Term Care]): I'd like to thank the member opposite for the question. The first

concern of this government is the care and the services in health that need to be provided to our communities. We work hard to do that. In the CCAC in the Kingston area, the dollars have increased

substantially from 1995 to 2000. They have increased from $20 million to $25 million, a substantial increase.

We are disappointed in the tactic, the way the board has decided to move forward to stay within the budget. It would be our preference that the board work with

the Ministry of Health to ensure that people have the services they need in the community. We certainly are providing increased funding to make sure that happens.

As the member knows, there's a review of CCACs happening in the province of Ontario, and the Kingston area will be one of the first that we'll look into.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Supplementary.

Mr John Gerretsen (Kingston and the Islands): Minister, the advertisement specifically states that reductions will introduce waiting lists for

admissions for people coming out of hospitals. You have funded that community care access centre by $2 million less than last year. Last year you spent $27 million; this year you're only allocating

$25 million to them. People will be coming out of hospitals and put on waiting lists because of your policies of closing beds and closing hospitals under the guise that people would get community

health care. Can you at least not live up to your commitment and your promise when you closed all the hospitals and all the beds and make sure that the community health care is available for the

people not only in the Kingston area but throughout this province? That's the least that you owe to the taxpayers and the citizens of this province. We demand nothing less from you.

Hon Mrs Johns: This government places a very high priority on ensuring that the people of Ontario receive quality health care as close to home

as they possibly can. Let me remind the members opposite that since 1994-95, this government has increased home care spending by 72%, on average, across the province.

There is no question that these new agencies have some growing pains. We've undertaken a review to ensure that we are effectively delivering quality health

care through the CCACs. We continue with that review.

But let me remind the people of Kingston that the budget for home care in this area has moved from $20 million in 1994-95 to an unprecedented $25 million.

WORKFARE

Mr Doug Galt (Northumberland): My question is directed to the Minister of Community and Social Services. This summer you visited

Northumberland and many other communities across Ontario. That was to highlight their success in meeting the targets of the Ontario Works placement program. I know that in my community there has

been a really positive response from staff as well as clients. In fact, in Northumberland county it more than doubled its goal for placements.

Minister, I know this program has been a big success in Northumberland. Of course, we like to brag about our own riding, but could you tell us how this has

been working in other areas and the kinds of challenges they've been meeting.

Hon John R. Baird (Minister of Community and Social Services, minister responsible for children, minister responsible for francophone

affairs): Back in 1995 we set about to change a welfare system that wasn't working for people. It wasn't helping people make that important transition from welfare to work. People in

Northumberland haven't just done a good job; they've done a phenomenal job. The member opposite I think isn't telling the full story. They didn't just meet the target or double it; in fact, they

met the target with a 244% rate, which is something that is to be commended. Not only did they meet the target, but indeed 44 of the 47 municipalities, consolidated municipal service measures,

right around Ontario met the target. That is good news for people who are looking for work; it's good news for people who want the skills and want the experience they need to make that important

transition. We're seeing people get job references; we're seeing people boost their self-esteem; we're seeing people get some recent experience to put down on their next job application. That's

something that's absolutely essential for them to make that transition from welfare to work.

Workfare and work-for-welfare is working in the province of Ontario.

Mr Galt: Minister, outside of the benefits to clients, there's also a tangible benefit given to each municipality. Of course, they save on the

welfare payments and they save on administration, but also in my community they've put over $300,000 into our coffers, money that will be used to support projects that help the disabled find work

and support literacy programs offered by Sir Sandford Fleming College. Other local agencies such as Northumberland County Community Care and the Salvation Army have also benefited from this extra

funding.

Minister, how much money has been allocated across the province, and what is it being used for?

Hon Mr Baird: One of the commitments we made back in 1999, in the Blueprint, was to reward municipalities that not just met the target but in

fact exceeded it. The member opposite has spoken of the $309,000 that Northumberland has been able to earn on behalf of the hard-working taxpayers of that area, a committed group of staff and

community agencies. What a difference that's making in Northumberland to places like Youth Rebound Services, where they're able to do more to help kids facing a drug problem; whether it's helping

special-needs children, whether it's helping the disabled, providing more supports for the disabled, or providing additional support for the chronically unemployed.

That's one of the most amazing things you have. In the province you have people reinvesting part of this $33 million into helping more people beat the welfare

trap, which is exceptionally good news. Around the province we're seeing more people get the skills and experience they need to meet the challenges of the workforce, whether this comes to more

training, more social services or providing more supports to children, which is good news. I want to congratulate the entire team in Northumberland and the member for making the work-for-welfare

program work in Northumberland.

HEALTH SERVICES IN WINDSOR

Mrs Sandra Pupatello (Windsor West): My question is for the Deputy Premier-slash-Treasurer. The Premier is arriving in Windsor on Monday,

October 1. This is about his second visit in the last six years. My question for you is this: I'd like to know what investments the Premier is bringing with him to my city especially to bolster our

health system.

I'd like to tell you that in your own Health Services Restructuring Commission report, one that you mandated that we must follow, it called for innumerable

changes to health delivery and investments in our community in health. As an example, one of the reports called for one of our hospitals to be closed two and a half years ago, but it hasn't

happened, because your government has not properly funded the reconstruction of the system.

I'm asking you this: what will the Premier bring with him in investments in our health system when he comes to visit Windsor on Monday?

Hon Jim Flaherty (Deputy Premier, Minister of Finance): I thank the member from Windsor-slash-Essex for the question, since we're exchanging

slashes this afternoon, if we can do that. The Premier, as I understand it, is going to Windsor next week. I enjoyed seeing the member opposite in Essex county in August, I think it was, when we

honoured the mayor.

Health care spending, as the member knows, has increased in Ontario from $17.6 billion in 1995-96 to $23.5 billion in 2001-02. I'm sure the member opposite

appreciates that that is a very substantial increase in spending. It moves the program spending in health care to about 45% of the provincial program spending budget -- a very substantial

commitment to the health and well-being of people in Ontario, including of course the people of Essex.

Mrs Pupatello: I can tell you what he's taking. He's going to be taking money from our community to the Conservative Party coffers, which is

the purpose of his visit. We particularly find it galling to see that he comes to my community for maybe the second time in six years after what he has done to our health system.

I can tell you that we need access to doctors; we need access to specialists; we need children's mental health services; we need good, tuned, operating

emergency rooms; we need operating rooms. We need all of these things that you have not provided for us because you have not kept pace with your own Health Services Restructuring Commission

report.

I want to know, what is the Premier bringing with him? We've requested innumerable things over the last six years. Even your health ministers agree these

things are required. Treasurer, I am asking you, what is the Premier bringing with him when he comes to visit us in Windsor on Monday?

Hon Mr Flaherty: The member opposite raises the issue of fundraising. Her leader said in Kitchener on April 8, 2000, in a scrum, "We just ramp

up our ability to raise them. I'm not for getting mad, I'm -- we're getting even, and that means we've got to get in the game and become much more aggressive."

The Leader of the Opposition said on CFRA, November 8, 1999, "Greg (Sorbara) is a former cabinet minister and the -- a business person and he has a particular

knack for fundraising which is a very important objective when it comes to modern politicking." That's Dalton McGuinty's view of the importance of fundraising for the Liberal Party of Ontario.

PROFESSIONAL ACCREDITATION

Mr John O'Toole (Durham): My question is for the Minister of Training, Colleges and Universities. You know for certain that the Conference

Board of Canada released a study on Monday calling on the federal government to take greater steps to help skilled immigrants practise their chosen profession in Canada. But many aren't able to

practise because the education and experience they've earned abroad may not correspond to the standards and requirements we have here in Ontario.

Minister, you know this is happening at a time when employers in my riding are concerned about the short supply of available skilled labour. Could you tell the

House today the steps Ontario, and specifically your ministry, is taking to help foreign-trained professionals enter the workforce and contribute to Ontario's strong economy?

Hon Dianne Cunningham (Minister of Training, Colleges and Universities, minister responsible for women's issues): In response to the question

from my colleague, Ontario, as we all know, is home to more than half of all immigrants who choose to come to Canada. Some 72% of working-age immigrants arrive here after completing some

post-secondary education or training. Different jurisdictions have different standards across our country, and many new Ontarians find themselves in a position where they are not able to practise

in their field despite previous education or experience.

Many new Ontarians need assistance in meeting the skills requirements. That is why our government announced $12 million in new spending to help foreign-trained

professionals put their skills to work in Ontario. These funds will support new bridging programs that build on the previous experience of immigrants and focus on preparing them to practise in

Ontario. It's a substantial increase over the $3.5 million invested in the previous year to support bridging projects for pharmacists and nurses.

Mr O'Toole: Thank you, Minister, for investing in people and investing in new Ontarians. As you know, skill shortages have a negative effect,

not only on the economy, but they threaten our very quality of life.

I have a particular case in my riding, because we have a physician shortage, of a person I have spoken with, a constituent, Lillian Lockyer, who is a physician

trained in China and would like to resume her career here in Canada. Business and other industry have also spoken to me about the need for finding the skilled workers they require, especially in

trades.

Would you not agree that we should be paying special attention to areas where our province is facing skill shortages, and will these funds be targeted to

address these demands in our economy?

Hon Mrs Cunningham: In answer to the member's question, we'll also spend $9.3 million through our Job Connect program. This is to help

newcomers prepare for the job market through training information and employment preparation.

The honourable member is quite right when he points out that the supply of skilled, knowledgeable workers is important to our economy. He's always been

extremely interested in working with his own college to make sure that the needs of his community are met.

The $12 million in funding will support bridging programs in health care, information technology and engineering where we need trained professionals in these

jobs, where we know that they're well paid and where we know that we will be meeting the demands.

We're going to continue to work with trainers, educators and occupational regulatory bodies to eliminate skill shortages. Bridging programs are important, Job

Connect is important and the community is important.

Thank you for this opportunity to take the appropriate time in answering this important question.

PETITIONS

ATTENTATS CONTRE LES ÉTATS-UNIS

M. Jean-Marc Lalonde (Glengarry-Prescott-Russell) : J'ai ici une pétition qui m'a été remise par la station de radio CJRC, la

radio de l'information de l'est ontarien et de l'ouest du Québec. Cette pétition a été signée par plus de 1 400 personnes.

« À l'Assemblée législative de l'Ontario :

« Attendu que le constable Danno Cusson de la PPO et son chien ont été impératifs à sauver deux personnes et à trouver les

personnes décédées dans la terrible tragédie à New York ;

« Attendu que sa participation était essentielle pour poursuivre les recherches de victimes dans les ruines du World Trade Center à New

York ;

« Attendu que le gouvernement provincial de l'Ontario a offert son aide dans cette affreuse tragédie ;

« Nous, les soussignés, présentons la pétition suivante à l'Assemblée législative de l'Ontario :

« Que la police provinciale de l'Ontario refuse la démission du constable Danno Cusson et lui accorde son congé sans solde pour des raisons

humanitaires. »

COMMUNITY CARE ACCESS CENTRES

Mrs Sandra Pupatello (Windsor West): To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the Mike Harris government promised to institute patient-based budgeting for health care services in the 1995 Common Sense Revolution; and

"Whereas community care access centres now face a collective shortfall of up to $175 million due to a funding rollback by the provincial government; and

"Whereas due to this funding rollback, community care access centres have cut back on home care services affecting many sick and elderly Ontarians; and

"Whereas these cuts in services are forcing Ontarians into more expensive long-term-care facilities or back into hospital;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to immediately lift the funding freeze for home care services, so as to ensure that

community care access centres can provide the services that Ontario's working families need."

I am very pleased to present this petition on behalf of people from Brockville, Kemptville and a number of other places around the Ottawa East area.

LORD'S PRAYER

Mr John O'Toole (Durham): I am pleased to submit a petition on behalf of my constituents, Harmony United Church in Oshawa, specifically Betty

Greentree.

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the Lord's Prayer, also called Our Father, has been used to open the proceedings of municipal chambers and the Ontario Legislative Assembly since the

beginning of Upper Canada in the 18th century; and

"Whereas such use of the Lord's Prayer is part of Ontario's long-standing heritage and a tradition that continues to play a significant role in contemporary

Ontario life;

"Whereas the Lord's Prayer is the most meaningful expression of the religious convictions of many Ontario citizens;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the Parliament of Ontario maintain the use of the Lord's Prayer in its proceedings, in accordance with its long-standing established custom and do all in

its power to maintain use of this prayer in municipal chambers in Ontario."

I submit this on behalf of Jan Bathgate and a number of other constituents in my riding of Durham.

SAFE STREETS LEGISLATION

Mr John C. Cleary (Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh):

"To the Parliament, Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the squeegee kid law was set up to stop squeegee kids from hassling motorists, we believe that the law has gone too far; it has now stopped the Lions

Club of Chesterville from raising money for the Children's Hospital of Eastern Ontario.

"This law has to be changed to exclude non-profit organizations, otherwise the various fire department fundraisers, fundraising parades etc will have to cease

and desist immediately;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Parliament, Legislative Assembly of Ontario to rewrite the squeegee kid law to exclude all non-profit organizations."

I've also signed the petition.

PROTECTION OF MINORS

Mr Bob Wood (London West): I have a petition signed by 1,010 people.

"Whereas children are being exposed to sexually explicit materials in many commercial establishments;

"Whereas many municipalities do not have bylaws in place to protect minors and those that do vary from place to place and have failed to protect minors from

unwanted exposure to sexually explicit materials;

"Whereas uniform standards are needed in Ontario that would make it illegal to sell, rent, loan or display sexually explicit materials to minors;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"To pass Bill 95, Protection of Minors from Sexually Explicit Goods and Services Act, 2000, as soon as possible."

SOCIAL SERVICES

Mr Dwight Duncan (Windsor-St Clair): A petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the provincial government has damaged public health care by slashing funding and engaged in ill-advised restructuring;

"Whereas the provincial government has slashed funding for social assistance, therefore forcing welfare recipients to live in more poverty;

"Whereas the provincial government's refusal to raise minimum wage is forcing low-income workers to live in poverty;

"Whereas the provincial government's removal of the Rent Control Act has forced residents of this province to become homeless;

"Whereas the provincial government's refusal to commit itself to building new affordable housing is forcing people to either live on the street or in the

hostel system;

"Whereas the provincial government has shut down schools and instituted Bill 74, causing unrest in the school system;

"We, the undersigned, petition to make the following demands of the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"That the government of Ontario repeal Bill 74; reopen schools, hospitals and psychiatric institutions that have been closed; make a commitment to building new

social housing; reinstate the Rent Control Act; reinstate all funding to social assistance programs and health care; and raise the minimum wage.

"If the government of Ontario is not prepared to act on these issues, we demand that the government resign."

KIDNEY DISEASE

Ms Shelley Martel (Nickel Belt): I have a petition addressed to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario. It reads as follows:

"Whereas we the undersigned residents of Ontario draw the attention of the Legislature to the following:

"Kidney disease is a huge and growing problem in Canada;

"Real progress is being made in various ways of preventing and coping with kidney disease.

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to encourage the Canadian Institutes of Health Research to explicitly include kidney

research as one of the institutes in its system, to be named the Institute of Kidney and Urinary Tract Diseases."

I agree with the petitioners. I've affixed my signature to it.

PROTECTION OF MINORS

Mr Bob Wood (London West): I have a petition signed by 734 people.

"Whereas children are being exposed to sexually explicit materials in many commercial establishments;

"Whereas many municipalities do not have bylaws in place to protect minors and those that do vary from place to place and have failed to protect minors from

unwanted exposure to sexually explicit materials;

"Whereas uniform standards are needed in Ontario that would make it illegal to sell, rent, loan or display sexually explicit materials to minors;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"To pass Bill 95, Protection of Minors from Sexually Explicit Goods and Services Act, 2000, as soon as possible."

The Deputy Speaker (Mr Michael A. Brown): Petitions? The member for St Catharines.

HEALTH CARE FUNDING

Mr James J. Bradley (St Catharines): Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I always love Algoma-Manitoulin.

This is to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas many residents of St Catharines and other communities in Ontario are unable to find a family doctor as a result of the growing doctor shortage we have

experienced during the tenure of the Harris government;

"Whereas cancer patients in Ontario requiring radiation treatment face unacceptable delays and are often forced to travel to the United States to receive

medical attention;

"Whereas many prescription drugs which would help patients with a variety of medical conditions such as macular degeneration, multiple sclerosis, arthritis,

diabetes and heart failure are not covered by OHIP;

"Whereas many assistive devices that could aid patients in Ontario are not eligible for funding from the Ontario Ministry of Health;

"Whereas community care access centres have inadequate funding to carry out their responsibilities for long-term and home care;

"Whereas the Harris government has now spent over $240 million on blatantly partisan government advertising in the form of glossy brochures and television and

radio ads;

"We, the undersigned, call upon the Conservative government of Mike Harris to immediately end their abuse of public office and terminate any further

expenditure on political advertising and to invest this money in health care in the province of Ontario."

I affix my signature.

NORTHERN HEALTH TRAVEL GRANT

Ms Shelley Martel (Nickel Belt): I have a petition addressed to the Ontario Legislature. It reads as follows:

"Whereas the northern health travel grant offers a reimbursement of partial travel costs at a rate of 30.4 cents per kilometre one way for northerners forced

to travel for cancer care while travel policy for southerners who travel for cancer care features full reimbursement costs for travel, meals and accommodation;

"Whereas a cancer tumour knows no health travel policy or geographic location;

"Whereas northern Ontario residents pay the same amount of taxes and are entitled to the same access to health care and all government services as residents

living elsewhere in the province; and

"Whereas we support the efforts of OSECC (Ontarians Seeking Equal Cancer Care), founded by Gerry Lougheed Jr, former chair of Cancer Care Ontario, Northeast

Region, to correct this injustice against northerners travelling for cancer treatment;

"Therefore,

be it resolved that we, the undersigned, petition the Ontario Legislature to demand the Mike Harris government move immediately to fund full travel

expenses for northern Ontario cancer patients and eliminate the health care apartheid which exists presently in the province of Ontario."

This is signed by 132 residents in the Nickel Belt riding. I agree with the petitioners.

NURSES

Mrs Lyn McLeod (Thunder Bay-Atikokan): I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario.