Alberta Hansard — 13 June 1986, Morning sitting (10:00) (Legislature 21, Session 1)

19860613

Alberta — Debates (Hansard)

June 13, 1986 ALBERTA HANSARD 7 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ALBERTA Title: Friday, June 13, 1986 10:00 a.m. [The House met at 10 a.m.] PRAYERS [Mr. Speaker in the Chair] MR. SPEAKER: Members of the Assembly, it's a very unique occasion for some of our members to get so involved in the life of the province that they then rush out and give birth to a baby. On this day I'm sure members of the Assembly would join me, on your behalf, in wishing well to the Member for Edmonton Glengarry and his wife on the birth of their son [Ian] David, who was born on this day. head: PRESENTING PETITIONS MR. HAWKESWORTH: Mr.

Speaker, as my very first action as a Member of this Legislative Assembly, I'm pleased to present a petition signed by 939 Albertans. They hereby petition the Legislative Assembly as follows: To restore to Albertans their traditional right of free and unhindered access to the shores and waters of Ghost Lake via the Crown owned land recently leased to Bar E & H Ranches Ltd. head: INTRODUCTION OF SPECIAL GUESTS MR. GIBEAULT: Mr.

Speaker, I have the pleasure to introduce to you, and through you to the members of the Assembly, 21 students from the grade 6 class at John Paul I school in the constituency of Edmonton Mill Woods, which I have the pleasure to represent. They are here this morning in the public gallery, and I would ask them to rise and receive the warm welcome of this House. MS LAING: Mr. Speaker, it is my pleasure to introduce to you, and through you to the members of this Assembly, 24 grade 6 students from St. Clement school in the con stituency of Edmonton Avonmore and their teacher Mr. Tannas.

I would like to thank the teacher and his students for coming here today to see how the democratic process works. I would ask that you rise and receive a warm welcome from this Assembly. MR. KROEGER: Mr. Speaker, I'd like to introduce a group from a new part of my constituency. They came into the Chinook constituency as a result of redistribution. They are a 4-H group from Craigmyle and Delia. [interjection] I knew I would get a bit of a draw on that. They are accompanied by nine interested adults, which is unusual.

Because some of them are new to me, I want to read the names of the nine adults, not the 34 4-H people. Headed by Sandra Smythe, we have Art Hoover, Art Bergman, Bev Bergman, Alex Nagy, Stan Marshall, Lynn Gordon, Lori Lee Marshall, and Eileen Smythe. I would invite them to stand and receive the welcome of the House. DR. BUCK: Mr. Speaker, I have the honour today to introduce to you, and through you to the members of this Assembly, 14 grade 10 students from John Paul II school in Fort Saskatchewan. They're accompanied by their teacher Mr. Reg Woelfle, and they are seated in the members' gallery.

I would like them to rise and receive the recognition of the Assembly. head: ORAL QUESTION PERIOD MR. MARTIN: Mr. Speaker, I'd like to direct the first question to the Premier. MR. SPEAKER: Excuse me, Leader of the Opposition. I have a statement to read to the House before we commence Oral Question Period, if you'd be good enough to wait for half a moment.

I hope the Assembly won't mind if we wait another half moment, because in the matter of getting thestatement prepared for distribution, and since I was willing to distribute it to the House leaders of all parties, somewhere along the line someone forgot to give one to me to read to you. [laughter] I told you yesterday that there would be laughter in the Assembly. So we've had it. I hope I put all new members at ease for when you have to rise the first time.

Statement by the Speaker The new party structure of the House has necessitated a review of some of our practices relating to question period and ministerial statements. I have consulted the leaders and House leaders of all parties represented in the Assembly and have determined that the following practices will be followed for the time being to ensure fairness between all members and parties.

Number one, in Oral Question Period the first question and up to three supplementary questions may be asked by the Leader of the Official Opposition or, in his absence, the Official Opposition House Leader or, in the absence of both of them, by a delegate. Secondly, the second question and up to three supplementary questions may also be asked by the Leader of the Official Opposition or his delegate. Thirdly, the third question and up to three supplementary questions may be asked by the leader of the Liberal Party or, in his absence, the Liberal House leader or, in the absence of both of them, by a delegate.

Fourthly, the fourth question and up to three supplementary questions may be asked by the leader of the Representative Party or, in his absence, his delegate. In each case, once the original question and up to three supplementary questions have been asked, the opportunity for one further supplementary question will be given to the first person recognized by the Speaker from each of the remaining three parties in an order determined by the Chair.

Once the first four questions and subsequent supplementary questions have been dealt with, the Chair will then recognize members from all parties in the Legislative Assembly in a fair and representative manner. In each case the member recognized by the Chair will have the same opportunity to ask his or her question along with up to three supplementary questions. In addition, the opportunity to ask one supple mentary question will be available to one member in each of the other parties.

With regard to oral questions, I draw the attention of members to Beauchesne, fifth edition, citation 357, which summarizes the traditional restrictions on both written and

8 ALBERTA HANSARD June 13, 1986 oral questions, and to citation 358, which deals specifically with oral questions and answers Citation 358 provides that: (1) [Oral] questions should: (

d) be asked only in respect of matters of sufficient urgency and importance as to require an immediate answer; (

b) not inquire whether statements made in a newspaper are correct; (

c) not require an answer involving a legal opinion; (

d) not be asked in respect of a matter that is sub- judice; (

e) not be of a nature requiring a lengthy and detailed answer; (

f) not raise a matter of policy too large to be dealt with as an answer to a question.

(2) Answers to questions should be as brief as possible should deal with the matter raised, and should not provoke debate. With regard to ministerial statements, ministerial state ments are not a normal part of the procedure of the House but are recognized in the daily routine. The Speaker has traditionally set limits on participants to keep contributions brief and factual. This is referred to in Beauchesne, citation 262.

The traditional opportunity of response by the Leader of the Official Opposition, or in his absence the Official Opposition House Leader, will be continued, but a three- minute time limit will be applied to the response. The government has agreed that where possible, it will minimize the amount of time taken for ministerial statements on private members' days. A copy of this statement will be delivered immediately to all members. I wish to thank those of you involved in developing this consensus. head: ORAL QUESTION PERIOD (continued} Meat Packers' Strikes MR. MARTIN: I'll try again, Mr. Speaker.

My question is to the Premier, and it of course has to do with the meat packing crisis which is tearing this province apart. I would suggest that the labour laws have allowed an irresponsible employer to deliberately try to beat and bust a legitimate union. My question is simply this: has the Premier personally contacted his Conservative friend Mr. Pocklington and told him in no uncertain terms to get back to the bargaining table? If not, why not? MR. GETTY: Mr. Speaker, the answer to the first question is no, and the answer to the second question is that the hon. Minister of Labour is handling that matter. MR.

MARTIN: A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. Does the Premier not admit that this labour dispute is unlike any that we've had before and with the potential to tear this province apart? Does the Premier not think he has a responsibility to personally intervene in this dispute? MR. GETTY: Mr. Speaker, the hon. Minister of Labour is dealing with the dispute in a very measured and responsible way, and he keeps me and members of our cabinet and caucus fully up to date. MR. MARTIN: A supplementary question flowing from that answer, Mr. Speaker.

Is the Premier saying that at no time is he going to personally intervene in this strike, no matter how bad it gets? MR. GETTY: No. MR. MARTIN: Mr. Speaker, what would cause the Pre mier . . . MR. SPEAKER: Order please. That's one question and three supplementaries, thank you. MR. MARTIN: That's two, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: I apologize. I'll review it on the VCR later in the day. I recognize the leader of the Representatives. MR. R. SPEAKER: A supplementary question to the Pre mier.

Is it the intention of the Premier to intervene in any way on behalf of either the employees or the employers in terms of this strike? MR. GETTY: Obviously, Mr. Speaker, any intervention by the government would be along the lines of trying to make sure that we can bring a solution to the problem. That is what would guide us in every case. It may be that the hon. Minister of Labour may wish to add to these answers. DR. REID: Mr. Speaker, I feel I should supplement the answers of the hon.

Premier and perhaps briefly review the current situation in relation to the situation both at Fletchers in Red Deer and at the Gainers plant in Edmonton, since there are two disputes going on concurrently. The Fletchers dispute: there are currently negotiations proceeding in Vancouver. These negotiations involve dis cussions with the union representatives for both the Fletchers plants in Vancouver and Red Deer. Those negotiations are in progress. They are in another jurisdiction, and I under stand they're direct face-to-face negotiations without the use of a mediator, but I could be corrected on that point.

With regard to the Gainers dispute, there is of course the disputes inquiry board which is currently functioning. That is a neutral body appointed just a short time ago. The intention of that board is to hold its meetings in public. That will be a review that will be available to the public on an ongoing basis. This morning there are meetings scheduled for negotiations to continue between Gainers' management and the representatives of the UFCW. MR TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, to the Premier. Yesterday thousands of Albertans demonstrated their concern about jobs in this province, not just the meat-packing industry.

Can the Premier assure the House that an independent commission to review the labour legislation of this province will be appointed and in an action within five days with the instructions to report back to the House within 30 days? MR. GETTY: Mr. Speaker, it's an interesting suggestion. It isn't something I can assure the House about, but it's something we'd certainly think about. MR. MARTIN: Mr. Speaker, I guess I'll go into another

part if I can get one more supplementary after it's checked on the one that I missed. My question is to the Minister of Agriculture, flowing around the same dispute and the impact on the hog industry. As I'm sure the minister would agree, the provincial labour laws have caused victims in

June 13, 1986 ALBERTA HANSARD 9 this situation, namely the hog producers. My question is: because of the cost of some $280,000, has the minister considered introducing a program to compensate producers for their losses on shipments outside the province until this dispute is settled? MR. ELZINGA: Mr. Speaker, in response to the Leader of the Official Opposition, let me indicate to him that I am in contact on a daily basis with the pork producers' council so that I can be kept informed as to the difficulties they are facing.

Let me share with him that the best compensation we could offer not only to the hog producers but to everybody concerned is to make sure there is a rational and fair-minded discussion to attempt to bring labour and management back to the tables so that we can resolve this situation, much like the hon. Minister of Labour is attempting to do. I would encourage all of us to support the reasonable methods he has brought forward so that we can resolve this situation rather than inflame it the way some members opposite have been attempting to do. MR. MARTIN: This minister may be a rookie.

This is not the House of Commons. The labour laws of this province have caused this dispute. My question had to do with his department. Is his ministry prepared to offer some subsidies to hog producers for this unusual dispute that has been caused by the provincial labour laws in this province? MR. ELZINGA: Mr. Speaker, I indicated to the hon. Leader of the Opposition that we were in daily contact with those individuals that are directly affected. We are looking to them for recommendations as to how they see we should best deal with this. I underscore what I said earlier.

We are going to take into consideration the serious impact that this is having on our hog industry. MR. MARTIN: A supplementary question to the minister. It's nice that you're in contact. It's good that you understand that you should at least do that. My question specifically is: during this session will there be an announcement of any programs to help the hog producers, especially if this is a protracted dispute? MR. ELZINGA: Mr. Speaker, the support that this government has given on a consistent basis to the agricultural sector is well noted, more so than any other provincial government in Canada.

I can assure the hon. Leader of the Opposition that this government will hold true to its com mitment to agriculture and the hog industry so that they will not be hurt by a circumstance outside their own control. MR. MARTIN: A supplementary question to the minister, Mr. Speaker. Talk is cheap. I specifically ask then: could the minister outline what contingency plans he has and tell this Assembly what they are prepared to do in this strike for the hog producers? MR. ELZINGA: Mr. Speaker, we have recognized on a consistent basis that talk is cheap.

Let me share with the Leader of the Opposition that we are looking forward to receiving representations from those who themselves are directly affected, prior to coming forward with any rec ommendations, to ensure that we react the way they would like us to react. MR. R. SPEAKER: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary question to the hon. Minister of Agriculture. In his considerations of subsidies to the hog producers, in terms of intervening in the strike — be

an act of intervention by government in the collective bargaining process, which to me is wrong? MR. ELZINGA: Mr. Speaker, I missed the drift of the question. Would the hon. member mind . . . MR. R. SPEAKER: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary question to the hon. minister. In considering the request of the hon. Leader of the Official Opposition for subsidies to the hog industry which would assist the hog industry during the strike, would the minister deem that act as

an act of intervention by government in the collective bargaining process that is going on between the hog producers of this province and Gainers? MR. ELZINGA: Mr. Speaker, that is one area that we have to give full consideration to when we are examining exactly what we will do. MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, to the Minister of Agriculture, who has indeed proven to be about as slippery as the proverbial greased pig — a simple yes or no. It costs about $25 a hog for a hog producer to deliver his hog to an alternate source.

Will the minister say yes or no on whether he will reimburse the hog producer for that $25 extra cost for any hogs that will be marketed between now and when the strike is settled? MR. ELZINGA: Mr. Speaker, might I thank the Leader of the Liberal Party for his question and commend him for selecting such an excellent critic as it relates to agriculture, because it has been relayed to me that the critic for the Liberal Party has come as close to a farm as his pair of cowboy boots.

Let me indicate to him that the figures we have are that it is costing hog producers anywhere from $10 to $30 per hog with this present situation. We have to take all costs into accord when we analyze what we are going to do. Again, as I mentioned to the Leader of the New Democratic Party. I stress that prior to taking any action, we wish to have representations made by the sector that is directly affected. MR. TAYLOR: This question. Mr. Speaker, is to the Premier.

A large number of meat-marketing plants in Alberta have closed or reduced operations in the past. say. dozen years in the province, resulting in a loss of many Alberta jobs. We would like to say we've been diversifying out of meat packing. Has the Premier inquired about the economic viability of the Gainers and Fletchers plants as to whether they will be or are able to assure Albertans and the House whether there is any current danger that either plant will cease operations as the financial results? MR. GETTY: Mr.

Speaker, that is actually one of the matters that the disputes inquiry board will be determining information on, and we should find it quite interesting. MR. TAYLOR: A supplementary. Mr. Speaker. Many meat packing jobs have been lost to Quebec, which heavily subsidizes the meat industry. Is any action going to be taken by the government to re-establish the natural advantages we have here in Alberta to regain lost jobs and prevent the loss of more in the meat-packing industry? MR. GETTY: Yes. Mr. Speaker, and the Minister of Agriculture will be dealing with that in the future. I might

10 ALBERTA HANSARD June 13 1986 say that one matter that has concerned me a great deal about the loss of packing plants and jobs is the recent comments from the leader of the union in Toronto who said that he thought he might have to sacrifice this one in Alberta. I thought that was hardly representing the workers or the people of Alberta. MR. TAYLOR: To the Premier, Mr. Speaker. The government has announced a diversification into technology where we don't have natural advantages, especially with the cutback in funding to education.

We've ignored the meat processing where we have advantages to diversify in meat packing. Can you give anything more specific, as I noticed Saskatchewan is talking about taking on some of our meat-packing industry? Have we had any consultation with the meat packers on how they could expand what they re already doing? MR. GETTY: Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Agriculture could deal with that matter. MR. ELZINGA: Mr. Speaker, that is one of the areas presently under consideration, and this government, as it always has done, will proceed very actively in that area. MR. McEACHERN: Mr.

Speaker, to either the Premier or the Minister of Agriculture. Does the government not feel that the near-monopoly situation, which was described by the hon. Member for Westlock-Sturgeon — because there is a near-monopoly situation and the third party is hurting, there should be extra pressure on this government. The government should respond to that pressure to solve this very sad dispute that is the result of the poor labor laws of this province. We cannot sit around and wait for a long inquiry. MR. GETTY: Mr. Speaker, as the hon.

Minister of Labour said earlier, the government is moving in a variety of ways to try and solve this dispute, and we are hoping that all hon. members will want to participate in finding the solu tions. Farm Credit Stability Program MR. R. SPEAKER: Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Agriculture, and it's with regard to the Alberta farm credit stability program. Could the minister indicate what the source of funds will be for that program? Will it be the Heritage Savings Trust Fund and/or the triple A rating of the province of Alberta?

How will the funds be transferred to the various lending agencies in the province of Alberta? MR. ELZINGA: Mr. Speaker, as was the commitment in the Speech from the Throne, we are going to get this program on stream very, very quickly. I would think that a supplementary would best be answered by the Provincial Treasurer, as it relates to the specific funding question. MR. JOHNSTON: First of all, Mr. Speaker, let me give the assurance to the farming community that this program and commitment, as outlined both before the election and in the Speech from the Throne, will be delivered and on time.

I hesitate somewhat, Mr. Speaker, to go into many of the details about the program because, frankly, with respect to the bank and the financing, that has not quite been struck yet. However, a quick review of the financial position of this province shows that the heritage fund in particular is in a very good liquidity position. We could, if necessary, draw down some of that money on a short-term basis to ensure that the program is up and running. Our commitment, Mr. Speaker, is to make sure that the program is going, followed quickly by the small business program.

Both of those will be under way just as soon as possible. MR. R. SPEAKER: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary question to the Provincial Treasurer. Could he indicate whether the program will be an interest buy-down program, or will it be the transferring of government funds, whatever the source may be, into the various lending agencies, who in turn make arrangements with the farmers or small businessmen? MR. JOHNSTON: Mr.

Speaker, as the Premier outlined during the election campaign and as it was tabled in this House before April 10, 1986, we have an intent to use the financial institutions to deliver the program wherever pos sible. Of course, that would include banks. I can only say that in terms of contemplating a way in which we can fund the program, if the particular bank or credit union or Treasury Branch were to advance money, we would also advance money to the Treasury Branch based on that loan amount.

Therefore, in the normal banking situation the spread which they work on would allow the bank comfort in terms of the rate of return and provision for revenue for the services provided. MR. R. SPEAKER: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary question to the Provincial Treasurer. Could he indicate what that spread may be at the present time and what requests the various institutions are making to government in terms of their cost of administration? MR. JOHNSTON: Of course, Mr.

Speaker, I don't want to pre-empt the ongoing discussions which are before us, because that would be one of the essential debating points in terms of what the cost will be to the government. But I can assure you that both parties will try to arrive at a reasonable arrangement so that, number one, there is some rate of return for the banking system for those services and, secondly, so that the program is up and running in a normal financial sense. That's our commitment. I think the hon. leader understands that it's difficult for me to give absolute details because those are still under negotiation. MR. R.

SPEAKER: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary to the hon. Provincial Treasurer. Has the government assessed the approach that they're using versus the interest buy-down approach? MR. JOHNSTON: Yes. Again, Mr. Speaker, I think our position is clear on that. This program is not an interest subsidy program as such. The intention of this program is to use the fairly substantial resources of this province — its economic strengths, the resources of the heritage fund, and the General Revenue Fund — and to build on that strength to allow farmers to achieve long-term credit stability.

If long-term credit is achieved by the farming sector, then of course that would not be an interest buy-down but a provision of a secure rate of interest for a long period of time. To my way of thinking and certainly the government's

June 13, 1986 ALBERTA HANSARD 11 position, that in itself is a significant addition to the farming community in terms of the input costs which all farmers are suffering and, as the Minister of Agriculture has pointed out, which this government is doing an awful lot to assist. MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, to the Provincial Treasurer. The rate that's been quoted most commonly is 9 percent or lower.

Has the Provincial Treasurer — he mentioned he was going to use financial institutions — talked about the possibility, as it happens in many nonagricultural industries, that the banks or financial institutions can loan money at half prime plus one; in other words 5 percent, if it's a troubled company? Surely under this government there's nobody more troubled than the farmers. Can't you get that rate; that is, half prime plus one rather than the rather exorbitant rate of 9 percent? Have you done any talking or investigation with the banking industry on that? MR. JOHNSTON: As usual, Mr.

Speaker, we are of course always reviewing the rate situation. Fortunately, the interest rates are trending down, and we're looking at a variety of options available to us in these negotiations. As I noted before, we will use the resources of this government to ensure that the best rate is passed on and flows through to the farming community. That's our commitment. MR. FOX: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary to the hon. Provincial Treasurer. I think the farmers of Alberta require a clearer indication of just what the rate will be.

Conspicuous by its absence from the throne speech yesterday was ref erence to the actual rate. Can we therefore assume that 9 percent is the rate, or will you be trying to come up with a more reasonable and helpful rate? MR. JOHNSTON: Of course, Mr. Speaker, the member from Vegreville raises an important point, and that is in the same context of what will the rate be. I've attempted to deal with that. I don't think we're going to change the Speech from the Throne between yesterday and today. At this point at least the 9 percent rate does stand. MR.

SPEAKER: I hesitate to correct a member who has been so long in the House, but I think that's as appropriate an effort as any to remind the minister to refer to the other members as being the "member for" rather than the "mem ber from." Grain Transportation MR. FISCHER: Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Agriculture. The Grain Transportation Authority has reported to federal transport minister Don Mazankowski on the method of payment of the Crow benefit issue.

I under stand the report's recommendations have concluded that to pay the producer instead of the railway is the way to proceed in the future. Can the minister confirm this, and what is his reaction to the report? MR. ELZINGA: Mr. Speaker, may I respond to the Member for Wainwright and indicate to him that in Winnipeg this morning at 9:30 our time, the report by the grain trans portation agency, which reviewed the Western Grain Trans portation Act, was released. The highlight of the report indicated that there would be a payout made by way of an annuity to the farming population.

That is very supportive of the position of this government and that this government has consistently taken. We're delighted with that report and we indicate our support for it. But we place one caveat on it, in that we have not yet had an opportunity to thoroughly review the report. After we have done that, we will give a full report to the House. MR. FISCHER: A supplementary to the minister, Mr. Speaker. What will happen to our Alberta feed grain adjust ment program if the federal government adopts the pay- the-producer method of payment? MR. ELZINGA: Mr.

Speaker, we indicated at the time we introduced that program that in the event the method of payment was changed, we would reassess our position as to the payout to the farming population. I should indicate to the House that in excess of $40 million has been paid out to the farming population under that present provincial program. MR. FOX: A supplementary to the Minister of Agriculture. Does he recognize that there is still considerable disagreement over this issue in the farming community? I think all of this is brought about because of the government's weak- kneed response to the Crow debate of some years ago.

Are you prepared to listen to the views of producer organizations that still support the pay-the-railways option? MR. ELZINGA: Mr. Speaker, in response to the Member for Vegreville, may I indicate to him at the outset that I will not only listen to the viewpoints expressed by the various commodity groups in agriculture and the agricultural representatives themselves, but I'm also more than happy to listen to his representations, as I indicated to him when we had the opportunity to meet on a personal basis a few days ago.

I look forward to working closely not only with individuals within the agricultural sector but also with all members in this House. I should indicate to him. too. that a study was conducted by our department which showed 70 percent of the farming population in favour of this government's position. MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, to the Minister of Agriculture. You mentioned a study that showed farmers were in favour of your policy. Could you tell me where that study is. or could you reveal it to the House? MR. ELZINGA: Mr.

Speaker, as I'm sure the hon. member opposite will appreciate if he is going through the same adjustments that I am as a new member of this Chamber, we have both gone through so many briefing notes. I will attempt to dig up that study. As I'm sure he and all new members can appreciate, we've gone through such a thorough briefing process that it might take me a period of time to locate the specific paper I read it on. Meat Packers' Strikes (continued) MR. STRONG: Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Minister of Labour.

I want to ask what policy con siderations have prevented the minister from directing the Labour Relations Board to investigate whether or not Gainers Inc. has committed unfair labour practices. Under

section 141 of the Labour Relations Act is he allowed to investigate that complaint?

12 ALBERTA HANSARD June 13. 1986 DR. REID: Mr. Speaker, as yet I have not received any complaint regarding that matter. MR. STRONG: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Is the minister stating to this House and working Albertans that

section 141 of the Labour Relations Act — and I might read it. MR. SPEAKER: I think just the reference. MR. STRONG:

Section 141 of the Labour Relations Act reads, "complaint of unfair labour practices . . ." MR. SPEAKER: If you could just give it briefly and make your supplementary point, please. MR. STRONG: Is the minister saying to the House that he has no more authority than any other person under the Labour Relations Act to investigate this complaint? MR. SPEAKER: The minister believes he has answered it with a previous answer. MR. STRONG: Then I'd ask him another supplementary.

What is the policy of the government with regard to public promises by employers involved in labour disputes that they will never sign collective agreements, refusals by employers to enter negotiations, or placements of ads for replacement workers prior to the end of a collective agreement? DR. REID: Mr. Speaker, if the hon. member wishes to make that an official complaint, then I can quite willingly refer it to the Labour Relations Board.

The situation is that I have not had any attribution of the advertisements that were placed other than very indirect ones through the media, which should of course not be an indication for asking questions in this House. The hon. member is bringing matters here which he could well bring to my office or send me a memo and officially request an investigation, and I invite him to do that. MR.

STRONG: Might I ask the minister if he, as the Minister of Labour, the most top spot in Alberta in regards to labour relations in the province of Alberta, doesn't think he has a moral responsibility as a Minister of Labour to make investigations himself to see that justice and fairness is carried forward? DR. REID: Mr. Speaker, in spite of

section 358 of Beau chesne, I think the hon. member has entered into debate, and I'm entitled to respond to that. Referring to the disputes at Fletchers and Gainers, the Labour Relations Act in this province is not responsible for those disputes. Those disputes are normal labour relations matters where there is a dif ference of opinion between the employer's agents and the employees' agents subsequent to the expiry of the previous contract. Those are normal matters in the labour relations field. The role of the government so far has been an active one.

One strike started at 12:01 on Sunday; the other strike started at 12:01 on Monday. By Wednesday evening, which is a very short time in the course of any labour dispute, it became apparent there might be a window for the government to get involved at a very early stage. That window occurred on Thursday, and we took the opportunity of entering that window after I had consulted with the Premier, and he encouraged me to use that window.

In the case of the Gainers dispute, which is the one the hon. member directly addressed, we started a process of getting representatives of the union and the management of Gainers together. Those meetings occurred on Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday of last week. Those meetings occurred as a result of the initiatives of this government. Once it became apparent that those initial meetings had come to a standstill, further discussions were held on the Monday.

As a result of those discussions with both the union and the management side, it was possible at approx imately 11:00 p.m. oh Monday to get the two sides together for "negotiations." I use that word advisedly, as dollar amounts and overtime considerations were discussed. That process broke up at 3:10 on Tuesday morning. I made a recommendation to cabinet and to caucus. As a result of that recommendation, our caucus approved the recommendation I put to them that we appoint the disputes inquiry board. That disputes inquiry board — Mr. Alex Dubensky has 30 years experience in labour matters.

He has decided that he is going to investigate. He is going to inquire into the matters under dispute. He will get the facts of those matters, including the economics involved in this industry. As a result of that process, we will have the facts that are required. He has agreed to hold those meetings in public, not in camera. If I may just briefly finish, Mr. Speaker, since this is a debate . . . MR. MARTIN: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. If we're to be held down, we should not have speeches from the opposite bench. MR. SPEAKER: Mr. Minister, I think I would ask you to sit.

Perhaps it might come up in a supplementary from another part of the House. Are there further supplementaries on this question? MR. STRONG: A supplementary question. MR. SPEAKER: I'm sorry; you've had your one plus your three supplementaries on this issue for today. MR. DAY: Mr. Speaker, a question to the Minister of Labour, which he has partially addressed. In view of the rapidity of changes in the situation regarding the strikes, specifically at Fletchers in Red Deer, does the minister have any further information so that I can update and respond to my constituents? DR. REID: Mr.

Speaker, I partly addressed that already. In the dispute at Fletchers there have been negotiations started in Vancouver. There was a press release put out by the chairman of the board of Fletchers two days ago in which he indicated the willingness of Fletchers to get to the table. As a result of that press release and perhaps because of the urgings of the government and my staff negotiations are occurring in Vancouver at this time. Those negotiations started yesterday, and I understand they are continuing today.

Since this isn't in our jurisdiction, I don't have direct information, but I'll get it to the hon. member as soon as I have it. MR. STRONG: Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Minister of Labour. I find it extremely odd, and I'm sure he must. Why do negotiations have to start in Van

June 13, 1986 ALBERTA HANSARD 13 couver? Is it because they have a better labour relations Act in Vancouver than they have in Alberta that we have to negotiate in British Columbia, because we can't resolve problems here in Alberta? MR. SPEAKER: Order please. The member is out of order. With regard to supplementary questions, they're supposed to be brief. I think I'm right in that you've now thrown in three supplementary questions. So one at a time, please. Thank you very much. The minister will respond. DR. REID: Mr.

Speaker, I understand the meetings are held in Vancouver because of the direct involvement of the national union out of Toronto in this matter. They are involved in both the dispute in Red Deer and the negotiations to do with the Fletchers plant in Vancouver, where I understand the previous agreement ran out on April 11 of this year. The involvement of national representatives in this dispute is of course quite normal in the labour relations field, and the Premier has already remarked upon it. MRS. HEWES: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary to the Min ister of Labour.

Is the government contemplating a policy for reimbursing in whole or in part the expenditures that this city has undertaken in policing the situation that's been provoked by unfair labour legislation? DR. REID: Mr. Speaker, that was a matter of debate, but the matter comes under the jurisdiction of the Solicitor General. Perhaps he wants to answer that question. MR. ROSTAD: Mr. Speaker, policing is definitely under my jurisdiction. However, there is an agreement whereby our government provides a per capita grant to a municipality to conduct their own policing.

We have not had a request from the city of Edmonton for such participation. MR. EWASIUK: Has the Solicitor General any ballpark figures? MR. SPEAKER: Hon member, forgive me. I'm afraid that on this particular question, the one supplementary from your party has already been taken by the Member for St Albert. I'm going to recognize you later in the question period with respect to another issue and perhaps a similar aspect of this same issue, for all the Chair knows. Alberta Stock Savings Plan MR. MITCHELL: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Provincial Treasurer.

Recently, Bryndon Ventures Inc. issued a prospectus, the first prospectus issued under the Alberta stock savings plan. In doing so, they were able to raise $365,000 of which only $55,000 will be invested directly in Alberta, the rest, interestingly enough, being invested in Ontario and British Columbia. In keeping with the objectives of the Alberta stock savings plan to create jobs and economic activity in this province, will the hon. Provincial Treasurer please explain the level of job creation that this issue will stimulate in Alberta for Albertans? MR. JOHNSTON: Mr.

Speaker, I appreciate the statement made with respect to the Alberta stock savings plan. How ever, I will simply draw to the member's attention that that Act has not been passed by the Legislature. Therefore whatever prospectus has been issued under that Act would seem to me not to be applicable. MR. MITCHELL: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. I am concerned that further issues are being contemplated under that Act and that Albertans are in fact making commitments and expecting tax incentives that may or may not be there if that plan isn't structured properly.

Incredibly achieving the $55,000 of direct investment will cost Albertans [inter jections] — I'm trying to explain it so that it can be understood properly across the way — $150,000 in foregone tax revenues. MR. SPEAKER: Hon member, are we now at the question? Please stick to the question. MR. MITCHELL: Could the minister please explain the particular cost benefit of this rather lopsided investment formula that $150,000 will be spent on the $55,000 of investment? MR. SPEAKER: Order please. MR. JOHNSTON: Of course, Mr.

Speaker, anybody who wants to invest money in this province or anywhere in Canada must recognize that is a private-sector choice. If the member is suggesting that his party docs not support the private sector choice, I will take that as information. As I previously stated, Mr. Speaker, it should be noted that the Alberta stock savings plan has not been passed by this Assembly. Therefore in the context of that particular prospectus, his question is potentially out of order.

If you would like to discuss macroeconomic investments in western Canada, I would be glad to do so through a debate but not in the question period, Mr. Speaker. [interjections] MR. SPEAKER: Order please. I'm sorry: any more ques tions on this subject I rule as being out of order because the minister is indeed correct that it's dealing with anticipated legislation in this House in this session. Therefore the Chair has acted inappropriately. Could we then please go on to the next question as recognized. Municipal Policing Costs MR. EWASIUK: Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Premier.

Is it the policy of this government that municipal ities should be asked to bear the full policing costs for the disputes that have resulted from poor labour legislation? MR GETTY: No, Mr. Speaker, it's not a policy of this government. If we are asked to participate in some way, we'll give it full consideration. MR. EWASIUK: A supplementary Mr. Speaker. Has the Premier had any discussions with the mayor of the city of Edmonton to discuss the policing costs, estimated to be a quarter of a million dollars to the city, and are you prepared to share or at least relieve the costs to the city? MR.

GETTY: The answer is no, Mr. Speaker, I haven't. MR. EWASIUK: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Has the Premier given any consideration to reimbursing the city for the costs of the Gainers dispute and then attempting to

14 ALBERTA HANSARD June 13, 1986 regain the reimbursements from Mr. Pocklington in the provincial courts? MR. GETTY: As I said earlier, Mr. Speaker, we haven't been requested. We haven't had any need to give consider ation. It may well be that there are a variety of causes for the cost, and there might be a whole group of people we might ask to participate in the funds. MR. EWASIUK: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary to the Solicitor General. Has the minister any ballpark estimates available on the cost to the province of the extra RCMP work at the strike in Red Deer or at the strikes at Slave Lake and Fort McMurray?

MR. ROSTAD: Mr. Speaker. I do not have any estimate of the extra policing costs. Energy Assistance Programs MR. CHUMIR: Mr. Speaker, a question to the hon. Minister of Energy. The government has spoken of the implementation of programs bolstering investor confidence, which will be a surprise to the oil industry. Might I ask how the minister conceives of a program ending September 30 of this year as inspiring investor confidence? DR. WEBBER: Mr. Speaker, I assume the hon. Member for Calgary Buffalo is referring to the three programs we recently announced to help in the short term.

It was empha sized during the announcements of those programs that they were to give incentives to the industry for activity and jobs over the summer months. By having a September 30 deadline for two of the programs, it is anticipated that the producers and companies would apply and that work activity would occur over the summer months when, after the spring breakup, the activity traditionally hasn't been as great as it is later in the fall. We're confident that the programs will be responded to and that we will see activity over the summer months. MR. CHUMIR: A supplementary. MR.

SPEAKER: The Member for Calgary Forest Lawn. I'm sorry, you're still on your supplementaries. MR. CHUMIR: Yes, I am. MR. SPEAKER: I apologize. MR. CHUMIR: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary to the hon. Minister of Energy, who has used the words that the province is aware that the programs are short term and stopgap. The problems of the industry have been obvious for six months. The question is: does the government have any plans for programs which are not short term or stopgap but which will re-establish true stability and investor confidence in the industry?

Are we going to continue the government's pro gram of praying for oil price increases? DR. WEBBER: Mr. Speaker, if the hon. member would recall — I'm sure he does — it was in the earlier part of this year, in April, when this government announced some S400 million in assistance to the energy industry in terms of exploratory drilling programs and royalty tax incentives. As I indicated a few seconds ago, that was recently followed up by another $200 million worth of programs.

Certainly those programs are directed at increasing activity at a time when world oil prices are such that activity has considerably slowed down in this province and elsewhere. I've had recent meetings with representatives from the different umbrella organizations in the energy industry. I've heard a number of suggestions as to what this government might do in working with the federal government and industry to address the long-term problems. Certainly I agree that it's important for us to be addressing the long-term situation at this time.

We are hopeful that we will see a recovery of pricing in the later part of this year. It is anticipated that there will be some fluctuations in the mean time. My intention is to work with the industry and look at their proposals and work with them to try to address the long-term problems. MR. SPEAKER: I'm sorry; the time for question period has expired. I had recognized that we would give one final supplementary. I know the member has one final supple mentary and also the Member for Calgary Forest Lawn. I wonder if the House would be agreeable to extend it for those two very brief supplementaries.

The Chair gives due warning to both the two supplementary questions as well as to the responses, hon. minister, that they indeed be brief Are you agreed? HON. MEMBERS: Agreed. MR. CHUMIR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A supplementary to the hon. Minister of Energy, who has just advised the House that there aren't any long-term programs. MR. SPEAKER: Question, please. A straight question. MR. CHUMIR: The minister referred to the short-term $400 million program which was announced in March. Three hundred million dollars of that program is for explor atory drilling in this province.

Can the minister tell the members of this House how many wells have been drilled pursuant to that exploratory program and how much of the $300 million has been taken up in the intervening three months to date? MR. SPEAKER: Hon. member, you managed to slip in two supplementaries. The minister may wish to respond to the first one briefly. Thank you. DR. WEBBER: Mr. Speaker, I don't have the numbers available in terms of the take-up on the $300 million exploratory drilling program. However, I will say that that particular program has a deadline, if I recall, of December 31, 1986.

The take-up hasn't been as much as I would hope to have seen at this particular time. However, it is anticipated that during the latter part of this month and over the summer months, we will see a greater take-up on that particular program. MR. SPEAKER: The final question of the day: the Member for Calgary Forest Lawn. MR. PASHAK: Mr. Speaker, to the Minister of Energy. Given that the only solution to the problem of the Canadian sector of the oil industry would be to achieve price sta bilization through a floor price, does the minister intend to

June 13, 1986 ALBERTA HANSARD 15 consult with his party counterparts in Ottawa to achieve such a measure? DR. WEBBER: Mr. Speaker, it is my intention to consult with as many people as I can. If the hon. Member for Calgary Forest Lawn has any suggestions or ideas other than what his party has traditionally been giving over the last few months, I'd welcome hearing those suggestions, as I would from the Member for Calgary Buffalo. Certainly it is my intention to consult with the federal minister. In fact, we have already established a meeting for June 27 in Vancouver. MR.

SPEAKER: Members of the Assembly, might we revert briefly to Introduction of Special Guests? There are a number of groups. HON. MEMBERS: Agreed. head: INTRODUCTION OF SPECIAL GUESTS (reversion) DR. BUCK: Mr. Speaker, I would like to introduce to you and through you 26 grade 6 students from Our Lady of the Angels school in Fort Saskatchewan. They are accom panied by their teacher Mr. John Robertson and parents Mrs. Hazel Paradis, Mrs. Hood, and Mrs. Fung. They are in the public gallery, and I'd like them to rise and receive the recognition of the Assembly. MR. ELZINGA: Mr.

Speaker, it is my pleasure — and I do it with great delight — to introduce to you, and through you to the Members of the Legislative Assembly, a group of 44 students from Our Lady of Perpetual Help in Sherwood Park. I believe they are seated in the members' gallery with their teachers Jim Ziebart and Rocque Richard, and I would ask them to rise so that they could receive a warm welcome from this Assembly. MRS. BETKOWSKI: Mr.

Speaker, I'm delighted on this my first opportunity to speak in this Assembly to introduce 27 energetic and enthusiastic students from the James Gib bons school in the constituency of Edmonton Glenora. They are accompanied by their teacher Laurie Balser and parents Nancy Pope, Gary Rix, and Jerome Yellowdirt. I would ask that they rise and receive the traditional welcome of the Assembly. head: ORDERS OF THE DAY MR. FOX: Mr. Speaker, I rise to request the unanimous consent of this House to move at this time a brief motion commending the farmers of the province.

My motion would read: . . . that in recognition of the fact that today is observed as Farmers" Day across Alberta, the Legislative Assem bly commend the farmers of Alberta for their decisive contributions to this province's vigour, history, and future. MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. Member for Vegreville have the unanimous consent of the House to move this motion at this time without notice? HON. MEMBERS: Agreed. MR. FOX: I so move. [Motion carried] head: CONSIDERATION OF HER HONOUR THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR'S SPEECH Moved by Mrs.

Koper: That an humble address be presented to Her Honour the Honourable the Lieutenant Governor as follows: To Her Honour the Honourable W. Helen Hunley. Lieutenant Governor of the province of Alberta: We, Her Majesty's most dutiful and loyal subjects, the Legislative Assembly, now assembled, beg leave to thank Your Honour for the gracious speech Your Honour has been pleased to address to us at the opening of the present session. MRS. KOPER: Mr. Speaker, it is with great pride that I rise today on behalf of the constituency of Calgary Foothills to move acceptance of Her Honour's Speech from the Throne.

I would also like to thank Her Honour the Lieutenant Governor for her very gracious presentation of the speech yesterday. As Alberta's representative of the Queen, she carries out her responsibilities with keen sensitivity, dignity, worth, and openness. It also gives me great pleasure to be the first member of the 21st Alberta Legislature to congratulate you on your election as Speaker of the House. All former members here today realize your deep commitment to the parliamentary system and your past contributions to the proceedings of this House.

As well, your experience and friendly counsel to me as a neophyte last term was most helpful, and I'm sure these qualities will be recognized by the 39 new members of the House in the session to come. All of us assembled here today wish you well in trading your Stetson for the tricorn and are grateful to you for taking on this job. May you continue guiding the Assembly in the same conscientious, fair, and just tradition practised by your predecessor. We all look forward to your leadership and to meaningful and constructive debate in this House.

I again wish to express my gratitude to the people of Calgary Foothills for the privilege of representing them in the Alberta Legislature and my thanks to Mr. Premier for the great honour he has bestowed on Calgary Foothills by asking me to move acceptance of the throne speech. May I also take this opportunity to welcome all of the new members of the House. Three years and three months ago I first addressed this Assembly, and it brought home to me an overwhelming sense of the significance of our duties and responsibilities as members.

We each represent a special geographic area, we each represent a special group of people, and we each bring special talents and biases to this Assembly. Yet each of us has come here with single- minded purpose to ensure that through the democratic process we become aware of the needs and issues throughout the province and thus serve the people of Alberta by working together to build the spirit of Alberta. Mr. Speaker, yesterday's throne speech, including all the priorities and programs set out in the April 3 speech, described important directions for all Albertans. particularly the residents of Calgary Foothills.

We in Alberta, like the rest of the world, are deeply affected by the changing needs

16 ALBERTA HANSARD June 13, 1986 of an industrial society as we change into an information society — a major transition. In order to meet this challenge, we must plan and seek new alternatives for the changes we know are necessary as we become part of the greater global community. I believe the Speech from the Throne does set out a plan of action, endorsed by Albertans, that builds on our basic strengths of agriculture, our natural resources, and our people and continues to broaden our economic base and seek new markets for our products and goods. Mr.

Speaker, one priority, agriculture, is really more than an industry in Alberta: it is a way of life. Farm families need security and stability in order to produce the goods that are needed for the survival of all of us in the mar ketplace, and the programs undertaken by this Legislature in the past and proposed for the present are going to be of imminent help to them.

The priority placed by this government on agriculture through the appointment of an associate minister to the position is an important message to Albertans, as are some of the programs that assist farmers in finding markets to respond to the produce we have. Calgary sprang from the agricultural community. One hundred years ago this year Calgary's first exhibition was born. I'm proud to say that my grandfather was involved in this first industrial exhibition in Calgary. It's aim was to feature agriculture and agricultural products.

The Stampede began quite a while later, yet the aim of this exhibition has remained. Mr. Speaker, after seeing the international plowing match in Olds and looking at the exhibition there of agricultural technology, one is moved to remark and reminisce about how far we have come in the development of this industry in Alberta. At the Stampede there will be numerous events that will recall the old days and world- class shows that will demonstrate the new. It is expected that over a million people will be attending this year's Exhibition and Stampede. Mr.

Speaker, events such as this, coupled with the estab lishment of the Department of Tourism, promise to develop Alberta as a most favoured holiday destination in North America. Not only will an expanding tourist industry lead to higher levels of employment in our province and in the industry; it will clearly need support services that will enhance the skill and sophistication of all who work directly in the hospitality, transportation, and food service industries in our province.

Alberta will be front and centre of the world stage for 16 days in 1988 for the Olympics, so it is vital for the government to work co-operatively with the industry to be ready when the eyes of the world are focussed on us then. In Calgary Foothills we have the good fortune to have the campus of the University of Calgary, and on that campus the Olympic oval that will seat 4,000 spectators is being constructed. It's a winter sport facility that houses two international hockey rinks and in the summer will serve as a field house. The unique architecture and technology used in this design is second to none.

We also are constructing permanent facilities there to house athletes and for the future use of the university. This is just going to tender and promises jobs in the construction sector. We also have in our constituency a volunteer centre built to accommodate the Olympic opening ceremonies and the many, many thou sands of volunteers that will be needed for this event. The volunteers are generating the same excitement in communities all across the province. We also have a hockey rink that has expanded to become the David Bauer arena, and this will eventually become the home for Hockey Canada.

One of the most exciting construction projects in our constituency is the expansion of the Physical Education Building and the program to include a sports medicine clinic with six full-time physicians and 18 treatment stations. This clinic will cover all sorts of areas that we formerly have not been privy to in Alberta, such as biochemistry motor learning, hematology, strength testing, weight training, and motor learning. It will be a foremost centre in North America for research into athletic performance.

Not only is the state of the art involved in the construction of these buildings, but we are improving in the state-of-the-art construction. These are long-term commitments to the tourism industry in Alberta. There are thousands of jobs for Albertans now and a great potential for the future. The games will leave a legacy of unique facilities and will continue to be used by world-class athletes and Albertans. Calgary Foothills is excited about that prospect. In Calgary, Mr.

Speaker, we all realize that it's a city hard hit by the drop in oil prices, but we are very grateful to see the level of capital con struction, the highest in Canada, being undertaken by the government at this time. In reflecting on the priorities of the action, I would like to review it in terms of the people that I know and meet in Calgary Foothills. It's a very stable and yet active community, and this year, for example, the very first community association formed in the area, Triwood, is celebrating a 25th anniversary. Twenty-five years ago you could be downtown in 15 minutes and out of town in five.

We can still do the former but not the latter, because there are six more communities and a total of 22,000 people that make it much more difficult to pass through town. In Calgary, as elsewhere, and in Calgary Foothills, as a good example, we have attracted and are maintaining the most educated citizenry in the history of our country, and that means to me that education is highly valued by Alber tans.

Education represents an investment of over $1 billion each year to educate the young people of this province, and many initiatives have been taken by the government to ensure the quality and excellence in this mission as well as a significant increase in funding, I would say, to the education sector. As a member of the School Act Review Committee, I had the opportunity to visit schools across this province and see firsthand what is happening and how we can work together as students, teachers, parents, communities, and government to provide a top-notch education.

Over the past term we have seen the extension of the ECS program philosophy into the primary school, bringing with it the continued co-operation of parents, school, and community. We have seen the growth of a community school program, a unique feature here in Alberta that bridges the gap between home and school and utilizes the school buildings to a far greater extent. They are the focal points of the communities in which they exist.

Father Mercredi school in [Fort McMurray], Nicholas Sheran school in Lethbridge, the Dawe school in Red Deer, and Ranchlands school in Calgary were all schools visited and prime examples of how a community can work together. We also have noted in the Speech from the Throne response centres that will be built providing diagnostic services for children with special needs in both the northern part of the province and the south. These response centres will be invaluable as another way, in addition to the program introduced by Alberta Education, to diagnose problems in the classroom.

They will be an invaluable resource for both teachers and parents.

June 13, 1986 ALBERTA HANSARD 17 In Calgary another innovation has occurred whereby busi ness and education become partners. At A.W. Skene school, Hewlett Packard has teamed with the school to provide volunteer resource help, material help, resources and equip ment, and a good audience for what is happening in this school. While the student is the central focus of all the programs that are offered by Alberta Education, the key to quality education is the positive interaction of both students and teachers.

Teachers must inspire; they must challenge young minds; they must foster innovation and creativity; they must develop positive attitudes in their students; they must provide opportunities for students to make choices, to take risks and, most of all, to achieve their goals. Increas ingly teachers in our schools are being asked to provide service beyond schooling and have become a stabilizing force in our community. In short, the teacher is a miracle worker, and the success and effectiveness of any program rests with the classroom teacher. Mr.

Speaker, it has been many years since the qualifi cations of a teacher became a four-year degree instead of a one-year program plus two years of successful teaching. I believe the results of this move have produced competent and exciting professionals, well equipped to provide the current high quality and relevant programs and to put Alberta on the leading edge of the technology and knowledge industries. Mr. Speaker, the throne speech also reaffirms the government's commitment to broaden Alberta's economic base and to increase jobs for Albertans. This is vital.

Forestry is gaining recognition as an important strength. Coal pro duction was at record levels last year. Sulphur sales were most successful, and we read with interest the news of a magnesium plant to be built near Aldersyde. The real value of Alberta's products grew by over 4 percent last year. Following that, the introduction of the Alberta small business term assistance program was welcomed by many small businesses in Calgary Foothills and is recognized as an important step in the growth of existing businesses or in getting new ideas on stream.

It was my pleasure a month ago to be a speaker and present an award at the inaugural awards dinner of the new venture development group of the University of Calgary. The young entrepreneur receiving the award was a gentleman named Lee Krawitsky, and during the evening I had the pleasure of sitting beside him, getting to know him, and discovering the kind of enthusiasm, vigour, energy, and commitment that an entrepreneur has. This program, devel oped at the University of Calgary, has been most helpful to the development of new businesses.

Many examples exist in our community, as it has bridged the gap between the technology and research at the university and gets into practice successful business management methods. They're not always successful perhaps, but by having a business plan, knowing how to get out and produce and market goods, and being fairly sure of your success, you can only hope but try. The presence of the Research Council in Calgary has made a great difference as well to the start-up of small businesses. The portfolio of Technology, Research and Tele communications holds promise for the future in our quest for jobs.

In addition to this, Mr. Speaker, all of us are aware of the many jobs that have been created through the many programs administered by Alberta Manpower, the range of services available, their effect on a large number of Albertans. Her Honour's speech clearly recognizes the need for measures and virtually continuous retraining and upgrading of the work force for new skills. Lifelong learning has truly become the reality of today. Mr. Speaker, I would like to mention briefly the formation of the new department of community health.

The government is showing a sensitivity to the needs and priorities of health promotion in this move. Preventive medicine has long been a focus of the 27 health units in Alberta. A sterling example has been set over the years by AADAC in demonstrating the impact of life-style on our health and welfare, and this program is widely acknowledged across this continent. In addition, we can take great pride in our home care program, established in 1978.

The program criteria were expanded and accompanied by a $10 million injection two years ago. and while this program offers essential services to the disabled and elderly, the government is still investigating how to improve home care services. Right now a very important project concerned with long- term care exists in Calgary. The assessment placement model will be tested for two years, concluding in February of '88. These tests are conducted in both rural and urban Alberta and in the Foothills health unit and through Calgary Health Services. The focus of the pilot project is Alberta's seniors.

This population sector is growing rapidly, and we are it. The intent is to test this service of home care by community-based services, and if these tests come to the conclusion I think they will, home care will continue to provide services, which will in turn mean less dependence on institutions. The quality of life for people who receive home care will be enriched because they can continue to live at home. As well, these services may mean reduced future capital and operating costs of nursing homes and hospitals. Mr.

Speaker, as the 18th woman since 1905 to be elected to this Legislature, I would be remiss not to acknowledge the addition of five women to the Legislature. [applause] Their presence here is indicative to me of the tremendous strides that have been made in the level of confidence of women to participate fully in today's world. In Alberta 61.2 percent of all women over the age of 15 were active in the work force in 1985, and it is with great pleasure that I see the government commitment to equality of opportunity outlined in the Speech from the Throne in so many ways. May I perhaps go over a few of the ways.

We have mentioned the introduction of the Women's Secretariat Act. The Women's Secretariat existed as a part of the portfolio of Advanced Education in the last session and represents a group of deeply committed women: no lunch, no coffee breaks; they come early and go home late when there's work to be done. We also have mentioned in the Speech from the Throne the Advisory Council on Women's Issues, which promises to advise and report to the government. Many nominations of great value and strength have been received from all over Alberta.

The third initiative that is so meaningful is that there will be a governmentwide plan of action in the fields of employ ment, education, social services, and health. There is a large pool of highly trained and professional people, talent that we can use and hope becomes identified. We should also be very aware that there is work being done by the secretariat with federal and provincial co-operation on studies for child care, the native woman, and the plight of visible minority women.

The last initiative that I think is so important is the increased funding for combatting family violence, domestic violence of any type. This heightened level of awareness

18 ALBERTA HANSARD June 13, 1986 of issues of equality and fairness can only strengthen and be beneficial to all people and contribute to the strengthening of the family. Mr. Speaker, Her Honour's speech also maps out short- and long-term strategies for the energy industry, a major employer of people in Calgary Foothills. While Albertans know that they cannot be sheltered from international devel opments such as the disarray in world oil pricing, for example, over the long term the fundamental strength of this industry is there. I felt it as we went from door to door.

The initiatives introduced should improve the pro ducer's present cash flow and encourage the incentives, drilling activity, and jobs. The key is jobs. Mr.

Speaker, if we can grasp this opportunity to appraise what our real needs are here in Alberta, maybe even redesign the delivery of our services, be brave enough to look at alternatives and maybe design them so that they're in tune with the realities of today, perhaps we can introduce a different order to our lives that emphasizes sufficiency rather than abundancy, co-operation instead of rugged individu alism, and enlightened self-interest and confidence instead of materialism. Mr. Speaker, throughout the throne speech people remain the priority of this government. In

summary, an informed and knowledgeable population with meaningful employment created through development of our major industries and carefully planned long-term economic strategies are the priorities of the people of Alberta and their government. Alberta is a land of promise, a land of opportunity, and a land of the future. Mr. Speaker, we've overcome adversity in the past and we'll do it again. We'll meet our future challenges with confidence and the optimism of our fore fathers, inspired by the promise of what we can become. I'm proud to be an Albertan. MR. JONSON: Mr.

Speaker, I'd like to begin by compli menting the mover of the motion on her excellent address. I wish to start by thanking the Premier for the opportunity to second this motion. Having this opportunity brings recog nition to the constituency of Ponoka-Rimbey, which I am pleased to represent.

The people of our constituency viewed with favour the speech of Her Honour the Lieutenant Governor delivered on April 3, and I am confident they will view her address on June 12 as a statement showing commitment by the government to follow through on that initial set of programs and legislation, while illustrating a capacity to adopt and modify these initiatives. Mr. Speaker, I wish to congratulate you on your election and your later election as Speaker of this House.

I know by your remarks delivered yesterday, but more so by your past record of dedicated service, that you will provide the Assembly with due care and impartiality and reflect a commitment to the democratic parliamentary tradition on which Canada's government is based. I imagine for a time, Mr. Speaker, your reading of the Calgary Herald and Edmonton Sun will be replaced by Beauchesne and Standing Orders. Who knows, you may stick with those documents, but I wish you well in your new office. Mr. Speaker, I also wish to congratulate the Member for Lethbridge West on his appointment as Deputy Speaker.

I hope he will continue to contribute his wisdom and wit to the debate of this Assembly. He will certainly be an able assistant to the office of Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there is one further congratulatory message I wish to extend and that is to the individual members new to this Assembly. Being part of this Assembly carries responsibilities and demands on ability and time that are heavy and that you may or may not expect. You are to be commended for seeking the challenge. Mr.

Speaker, this being Farmers' Day. with farm families along with their total communities all across the province engaged in 4-H sales and various other activities, I would like to comment on a couple of aspects in general of the agricultural industry as I see it in the Ponoka-Rimbey constituency. First of all, there seems to be an increasing, tremendous involvement of youth in farm programs, in the 4-H movement, and in a number of areas being part of the integral operation of the farming industry.

I also note that as the challenges facing agriculture are being faced, there is an added degree of co-operation in utilizing research among members of Alberta Agriculture and the community, the implement dealers, the feed providers, and so forth. Certainly the agricultural industry is rising to the challenges facing it. Mr. Speaker, in our constituency farmers have shown their usual initiative and hard work in coping with difficult times. The crop is in, with a promising start to the growing season. The agricultural industry in our area looks forward to prompt action on the programs reviewed in the throne speech.

There is certainly support for an approach to the industry by government which will bring support and sta bility. Farmers are currently contemplating entry into the red meat stabilization plan. They will have a large number of ideas to propose to the crop insurance review committee, and I would predict there will be similar interest shown in the review of the policy of the Agricultural Development Corporation. Mr.

Speaker, the action this government has taken to reduce input costs is recognized by the farming community, and with much of farm commodity pricing determined beyond Canada's borders, farmers think more must be done. Elec trical power rates and chemical costs are two examples of costs that farmers would like to see reviewed, and I know that the previous minister and the new Minister of Agriculture will be looking at those topics. Mr.

Speaker, hail suppression is a concern specific to our area of central Alberta, and I hope there will soon be a comprehensive report on the years of research and full public debate on the merits of establishing an ongoing program. Mr. Speaker, the farming community views the bilateral trade talks as vital to their future. I wish to commend the Premier for his leadership role in emphasizing the importance of provincial contact with these negotiations.

It will be a challenge to our provincial government and to governments all across Canada to keep farmers and the general public of Canada aware, to the degree that it is feasible in such complex negotiations, of the developments that are taking place. Mr. Speaker, the small business credit stabilization pro gram was certainly well received in our constituency. It was greeted with a great deal of interest and enthusiasm. The job creation and support programs of the government are being utilized. Mr. Speaker, I continue to be impressed by the energy and adaptability of the small business sector.

Just recently in our constituency new enterprises to manufacture and sell suspension eye glasses, manufacture and sell rodeo equip ment, and process feed for the farms have been established, and they are looking for employees. I know these examples are not unique to one constituency.

June 13, 1986 ALBERTA HANSARD 19 Mr. Speaker, improved employment opportunities are this government's and everyone's priority. Programs already in place are helping. Recently announced energy and manu facturing projects will have a significant impact, but more will need to be done. Greater attention to programs such as the teacher internship program to improve the transition to occupations and the development of a closer working relationship between business, industry, and the educational community in preparing and matching young people to careers is needed. Mr.

Speaker, I wish to remark on the potential of the third major industry of the province for a moment, and that of course is tourism. Our capital city is concluding the hosting of 6,000 members of the Royal Canadian Legion. As one meets Legion members from all across Canada, they comment favourably on good facilities, friendly people, and relate their plans to travel Alberta in the next few days. A short time ago the central Alberta town of Olds hosted the world plowing championship, a very significant event to the farming community and to the tourist industry.

I imagine the Member for Olds-Didsbury will elaborate on that later in this debate. In the Ponoka-Rimbey constituency Canada's best stampede, as judged by those who've attended, will celebrate its 50th anniversary in Ponoka. We anticipate many former staff members from all over this nation and other parts of the world returning to Alberta Hospital, Ponoka, for the celebration of its 75th anniversary. I'd like to digress for a moment, Mr. Speaker, to comment on the progress being made at this very important hospital in this province.

The brain damage unit is under operation and looks forward to having approval for new facilities within a short period of time. If one has been following the media coverage of the hospital, one would note that there has been considerable success reported and considerable recognition given to the work now going on at Alberta Hospital, and the good care continues to be provided. As I said before, we look forward to approval of the master plan and further progress for that very important part of the Ponoka community. Mr.

Speaker, these are four examples of events, big and small, that along with our geographic attraction bring people to the province. I note the progress being made on several fronts in terms of the joint federal/provincial activity in promoting and supporting tourism and promotion of Alberta as a tourist attraction. One of the key initiatives of the government will certainly be the emphasis on education and improvement of service. This is an important area for employment expansion.

Individuals that have the understand ing, skill, and courtesy needed for this industry often create the need for their services and, hence, a job. Mr. Speaker, our modern and fast-moving society puts great demands on our communication network. Alberta's leadership in developing the necessary technology and pro viding the needed service has been shown in the aid given by ACCESS to rural schools in obtaining satellite dish service and in the recently announced expansion of distance education opportunities. The provision of private-line telephone service is an important and valued initiative for rural Alberta.

In the Ponoka-Rimbey constituency, in addition to looking forward to the additional privacy and convenience provided by the service, people are planning increased use of computer linkups to serve farms and the increasing number of country- based businesses of the modern cottage type. I'm not sure of the necessary technology here, Mr. Speaker, but perhaps as one of my constituents proposed, this may open the possibility of providing cable TV service to rural residences. Mr.

Speaker, I welcome the expansion of the Use Respect program associated with promoting reasonable access and taking good care of private and leased land. There is a limit to the extent to which problems arising in this area can ever be solved by laws and regulations. The more effective and certainly preferable approach is that being taken with the valued assistance of Alberta's 4-H clubs. Mr.

Speaker, the extension of time for publication and discussion of the grazing lease conversion policy will be appreciated in central Alberta, although I must say that in the past several months I have had the opportunity in spoken and written communication to discuss this topic with my constituents as to its specifics and have generally found the response to be favourable and the policy thought to be reasonable and logical. The program of additional funding to local government has certainly been well received by people in the province.

Projects are already being planned, and the next several years will see numerous new and improved facilities and services being provided at the municipal level. However. Mr. Speaker. I do think that it will be very important to emphasize to all municipalities the opportunity this program provides for creating employment across the province. Mr. Speaker. Alberta's labour legislation provides the basis for employer/employee relationships and negotiations. Our legislation is for the most

part comparable to that of the vast majority of Canada's provinces, and along with the Individual's Rights Protection Act has served for some time. The full review of labour legislation promised in the throne speech is nevertheless much needed. The nature of employment patterns and employment sites is changing as we near the 21st century. The adequacy of labour legislation, with its associated component of workers' health and safety, needs to be assessed as it applies to the part-time worker, youth employment, employment in high-tech industries, and many other areas. Mr.

Speaker, my constituents welcome the establishment of the new Department of Community and Occupational Health, with its emphasis upon preventative health care. The increased funding for home care, women's shelters, and the assessment of the food bank situation are welcomed, although I would like to suggest that the assessment be provincewide on this latter item. Mr. Speaker, those are some of the items from the throne speech that I would like to comment on today. I look forward to being part of the work that goes on in imple menting the various aspects of the throne speech.

The throne speech we are addressing today and the Speech from the Throne preceding it complement one another, one following through and strengthening the other. On behalf of the constituents of Ponoka-Rimbey. Mr. Speaker. I second Her Honour's Speech from the Throne. MR. MARTIN: Mr. Speaker, in view of the fact that the budget is coming Monday night and in view of the fact that the last time the members wanted mc to talk on Friday, today I'm going right into my reply. |applause| They may not pound after, but I appreciate the pounding to begin with. Mr.

Speaker, let me first of all do the traditional thing — but in this case it is heartfelt — and welcome you as the Speaker of the House. When the hon. Premier called me and asked me what I thought about the choice. I was. to say the least, ecstatic. I've worked with you on com

20 ALBERTA HANSARD June 13, 1986 mittees. My colleague who was killed held you in very high regard, and also my colleague that followed from Spirit River-Fairview. We've all held you in very high regard. We believe that you are a fair individual, and that's what we want as Speaker of the House. So I welcome you, and I commend the Premier for making an excellent choice as the Speaker of the House. Mr. Speaker, I would like to move from there and talk briefly, if I may, about the election and a little bit about Edmonton Norwood. We consider it the bastion of social democracy at this point.

What was a narrow win, if I may so — because I used to get teased in this Legislature about just squeaking through. Now there are a few Tories that just squeaked through. But the majority went from 75 votes in '82 to about a 3,300 vote majority. As I say, what makes me especially proud of those people in Norwood is that I believe they kept democracy alive in this province when it wasn't easy to elect an opposition member. I am tremendously honoured to serve that part of the city, which I live in.

I want to say to the voters of Norwood that I respect the mandate you gave me, and besides the other responsibilities I have, I will continue to be a first-rate constituency MLA for them. I think that's important. Let me first of all say though, if I may, one other thing about the election in Norwood. When was the last time the Conservatives lost their deposit? I am glad they helped the financial situation in the province by donating $100 to the treasury in Norwood. I would like to say again about Norwood, Mr.

Speaker, as I said in my maiden speech back in '82, that I considered it the most interesting part of Alberta. The reason I con sidered it that is because it is an inner-city riding, and it has a mixture of young and old people which I think is encouraging. If I may stop there for a minute, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Members of the Assembly, I wonder if we might revert briefly to Introduction of Special Guests. HON. MEMBERS: Agreed. head: INTRODUCTION OF SPECIAL GUESTS (reversion) MR. MARTIN: Mr. Speaker, I would like to introduce to you and Members of the Assembly Mr.

Tony Penikett, who is the Government House Leader of Yukon Territory, which, of course, in Yukon is equivalent of Premier. I would ask him to stand and receive the traditional warm welcome of this Assembly. head: CONSIDERATION OF HER HONOUR THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR'S SPEECH (continued) MR. MARTIN: I might say, a good New Democrat too, Mr. Speaker. I suppose the hon. House leader was going to say that there are another two that don't go together. I'd like to, if I may, talk a little bit about Norwood. As I was saying, what makes it interesting is that it's a mixture.

I've run into older people in the constituency that have lived there, in some cases, 55 years. But other people, younger people, are making a commitment to the inner city, buying their first house there and making it a place to bring up children. Certainly inner cities have their problems, Mr. Speaker, and it's something that we collectively all have to be concerned about. But I can say that in my constituency a number of people are working actively to make that a good place to live. The other interesting part of Norwood, of course, is that it's an ethnic community. We have many different ethnic groups.

We have Italians, Portuguese, Ukrainians, Greeks, Metis; you name it. I think that adds, if you like, to the flavour of Norwood. The small shops you can go into are like no other place in Alberta. I think that adds to the cultural identity of that particular riding. I've often said that Norwood is the little United Nations of Alberta. I say that in the most positive way, because the ethnic people certainly in this city and across the province are playing a very important role. Let me say also that many of the small businesses generally associated with the ethnic community flourish there.

Some are not flourishing as much as they used to because of the recession, but a very determined group led by the East Edmonton Businessmen's Association is determined to maintain the business in that part of the city. Let me conclude and again say to you, Mr. Speaker, that it is indeed an honour to represent that particular part of the province. Let me speak generally about the Speech from the Throne, Mr. Speaker, before I get into a specific message that I want to make. First of all, I saw the Hon.

Premier say, "My, we had a massive mandate to bring back basically what we were doing before." I want to say that I do not believe that. I travelled this province. We knew before we went into the election that because of habit and because of a lot of reasons the Conservatives were still a very powerful force in this province. But as I travelled it, I did not find anywhere in this province where there was overwhelming enthusiasm for the program advanced by the government. Some people still voted Conservative this time by habit, and that's the only reason they voted Conservative.

I believe the election showed and should have shown this government that people wanted change. They were not happy with the way things have been going in the past, and that's why you see 22 members on the opposition on this side of the House. I say to the government and to the Premier that if you're hot going to look at that mandate, and you really believe it was a mandate for the future, you'll be over here on this side of the House after the next election. I believe, as I said, that people have voted for change, but I also believe that the government is floundering.

They don't know what to do with tough economic times. It was easy enough to govern when the money was flowing in, when things were going well. They took all the credit for it at that time. It's much harder to govern, and the mark of a good government is how they handle it, when times get difficult. I suggest that this government is still tuned in to the '70s. I say, Mr. Speaker, through you to the government, that this is not the '70s; this is the '80s, and it demands a new way of looking at things. That's not to say there weren't some good ideas in the Speech from the Throne; of course there were.

Some of them we advanced ahead of the government; for instance, the private lines. It's rather interesting that they announced it after we did, three months after my colleague Mr. Gurnett had brought it out. I raised it; then the government thought it was safe enough to raise as an issue. Good, I'm glad they borrowed it. The low-interest fixed loans two elections ago: we fought that. Although I still don't think 9 percent solves the problem.

June 13, 1986 ALBERTA HANSARD 21 I'm encouraged that there's a recognition that the problem is severe in funding for women's shelters, and there's a 40 percent increase. I'll give the government credit; that's a step in the right direction, although I still don't think that will solve the problem in that area. Let me say generally about the Speech from the Throne that we campaigned right across this province under three general themes: jobs, farms, and fairness. The government talked about jobs too, but the unemployment went up.

The reality is that we have to look at new ways of doing things or we're going to continue to live with a group of people that have no hope at all for the future, mainly young people. If you don't think you're going to pay a social problem for that, Mr. Speaker, then your people here are badly mistaken. I say to the House through you that that dem onstration was about labour laws, and I'll come to that. But that demonstration was about desperation, too, with the way things are going in this province.

I've talked to people, day in, day out, in my constituency and right across this province, that for the First time are fearing for their future. I know that the Premier went around and said, "Be positive." That's a great attitude, Mr. Speaker, but you have to give people something to be positive about. It has to look like the government has some idea about where they're going and where they're taking this province. Utter ing platitudes from the throne speech, that pats us on the back and tells us how good things are, is not going to give that confidence to people, if I may say so. Mr.

Speaker, let me say this about jobs. There are a number of proposals, and I won't go through all of them, but in the energy sector are two major industries. The commodity prices are going down. You have to forget about your ideology and do what's right. I've advocated time and time again — and I did in the last Legislature, for as long as it was going on — that we have to have a floor price.

I say to all those free marketers that believe that somehow there will be a free market in the energy industry that if you are so naive as to think that, with clause nine in the Western Accord that we signed, if that price starts to skyrocket, Ontario and Quebec are just going to sit and say, "Oh, yes, we believe in the free marketplace; love us; we want to pay the world price," then you're dreaming in technicolour, my friends. So what we have at this situation is deregulation when the price is low.

I predict that if the price ever does go up — although there is no indication in the next little while — we will have regulation. So we have the worst of all worlds, Mr. Speaker, the worst of all worlds. We should forget about our ideology and do what's right for the people of Alberta. It's not just the energy industry, because when we look at this budget, we'll be facing deficits because of that dropping of the international price. Where will we get the money later on? We all know it will come from ordinary Albertans. That's the reality.

So I say to this government: forget about your ideology and let's do what's right. The farm crisis goes on. I don't know why the people in rural areas supported the government after what's been happening in the rural areas; I just don't know. But they won't do it the next time unless something's done. We laid out a total policy to deal with the farm crisis, whether it be debt adjustment, whether it be a fair pricing proposal. But again, our ideology makes us sort of sit there and hope for things to happen. It's not going to come about just because we hope it does, Mr. Speaker.

There are many, many fairness issues that I talked about, whether it be pay equity for women, whether it be an end to extra billing, whether it be multiculturalism. But in a few minutes I want to talk about the fairness issue that's in the news today. If you like, Mr. Speaker, we knew we couldn't get an emergency debate, because we accepted the previous Speaker's ruling that the Speech from the Throne was wide ranging. So I guess I get a chance to talk about it here as part of the Speech from the Throne.

That's the other reason I wanted to bring it here as quickly has possible, and that has to do with the whole idea of the labour laws. I noticed that the Member for Ponoka-Rimbey said. "Oh, we have great laws here, wonderful laws that are fair to everybody." He says that they're the same as they are in the rest of Canada. Mr. Speaker, you'd better send that backbencher back to take a look at what is happening in the rest of Canada, because we've checked it out, and that is just not factual. We are different here for a couple of reasons that I'll come to. Mr. Speaker, it's not that this government wasn't warned.

I want to go back, since I've been in this Legislature, to when we brought in deliberate antilabour laws. The government thought that the labour movement was so weak at the time that they would never fight back and they would take whatever this government gave them. Let me issue a couple of quotes from Hansard that had to do with a couple of fundamental debates about fairness in labour relations. The first one was in 1983 when we were debating Bill 44, and it comes from my late colleague, Grant Notley. This is what he said to this government at that time.

I am saying to members of this committee that surely it is wrong to take away fundamental rights. Even for those who want some degree of stability it's not sen sible, because people are going to fight back. Mr. Minister, you and members of this House in their total arrogance may think that the trade union movement in this province is a paper tiger that doesn't have the zip or the gumption to fight back. I want to tell any member in this House who has the courage to listen that if you think this is the case, you know absolutely nothing about the trade union movement in the province of Alberta.

This is another quote from my late colleague, Mr. Notley. having to do with the labour estimates that were brought in after the infamous Bill 110. another deliberate antilabour movement that took away balance and fairness in our labour laws. I think he was a great predictor of what was going to happen in this province. Mr. Chairman, this kind of a bull-in-the-china approach to labour relations is wrong in principle because it leads to confrontation. It is wrong in principle because it's unfair. It's wrong in principle because it applies double standards.

But in addition to being wrong in principle, what it is doing is creating in the province a feeling of animosity, of distrust, of lack of co operation, which can only lead you. Mr. Minister, or your successor to have to face a heck of a lot of headache in the years ahead. Right on. Grant Notley. You told them like it was then: it's still true today, and your predictions have come true. Mr. Speaker, let me refer to the Acts. If you look at it just on the face value, it looks the same. But we've had many different things that have happened.

The uniqueness of Alberta's labour laws is that we do generally have, with some exceptions, the same basic model as all Canadian provinces, but other provinces have amended their legislation when certain problems occur that tip the balance in favour of the employers. They've done this. The loopholes that

22 ALBERTA HANSARD June 13, 1986 have been plugged in other provinces have not been plugged in Alberta, and in some cases they have been expanded. For example, the 24-hour lockout law is the most unique. Nowhere else in Canada can they do this; only here in jolly old conservative Alberta. We've had some labour lawyers take a look at this. Their assessment is that we have, without doubt, the worst laws of any of the industrialized provinces. Other loopholes that have been plugged are the protection of jobs against people crossing the picket line when an agreement is reached.

Manitoba and Ontario both have it, and of course Ontario has a law that prohibits crossing a picket line. So to say that we have good labour laws that are fair here is absolute and total nonsense, Mr. Speaker. That's just not the case. There are all sorts of other things I could go through that the LRB has done that make it very hard to even organize in this province. So I'm saying, Mr. Speaker, through you to the Premier — because I have no faith in the rest of these people; they've been here before. The ex- Minister of Labour knows precisely what I'm talking about.

I say to you in the sense of fairness, in the sense of not having social unrest, that we have to deal with this. We can't study it; it has to be dealt with. Let me go, if I may, into the Gainers situation. I say to you in this House that because of an unfair employer who has two goals in mind — that should become clear to everybody. One is to break this union. The other one — and he will probably turn his attention to that later — just a while ago was to break the Pork Producers' Marketing Board. They're either fighting the farmers or they're fighting the workers, depending which is convenient at the time.

I say to you that it's because of the laws that he's able to do this, Mr. Speaker. I say that there are victims. We mentioned it in question period. There are basically three victims in this. The victims obviously are the workers. I want to ask members here — we all don't condone violence. We don't want violence. It's not our province. In fact when we looked at television I'm sure all of us as members wondered if we were in Chile or some other place in the world, some banana republic. This can't be Alberta, we said, but the reality is, it is. We wonder why there's violence.

We have the government saying that everything's fair and just and won derful in jolly old Alberta. Head in the sand, Mr. Speaker, head in the sand. I say to them that you should take a look at what's happening with these victims. If you were a worker and you had worked 25 years in that plant and you had taken concessions last time that you didn't like because you felt that you were bullied into it because they were going to have people cross the picket line, your frustration level is very high. When that contract comes to an end, you're going to fight back for your own fundamental rights.

At least I would hope all ordinary people would do that. How are you going to feel when you see people crossing that picket line in a legitimate labour dispute, and the owner is saying that they will not have their jobs back? You wonder why some people react the way they shouldn't. Mr. Speaker, the reality is that those labour laws are causing that violence on the picket line. That's the reality, and the government had better come to that conclusion quickly.

The other point is that in the recession, after 15 or 16 years of Conservative rule, the old saying "Tory times are tough times" finally came true here in Alberta. So the other victims are the unemployed, especially a lot of younger people. They're faced with a desperate situation: any time to get a job, they have to look at it. Let me say it clearly: I would never cross a picket line. But I can also understand that feeling of being unemployed for month after month, in some cases year after year, that causes those people to do very desperate things too. I say to you, Mr.

Speaker, and to the government, let's stop playing the unemployed against the other workers. That's what we're doing in this society right now. I think we'd all recognize, of course, that the third victim we talked about is the hog producers. Especially with all the other things going wrong in the rural areas, the last thing they can afford is not to be able to ship their hogs. I don't know how many will go out of business. That's why I was suggesting that the government has a moral responsibility here, because it's their laws — it's not an ordinary strike — that have caused this, Mr. Speaker.

I suggest to you that they should look at some way to keep those people in business, because it's probably the last way they will. They will have hog producers going out of business, so there is that moral responsibility. They're the other victims. We're told that they lost by shipping to other provinces some $280,000 last week. That's just too much on the farm economy, especially with all the other things happening. So there are victims all the way around in this dispute, Mr. Speaker, and I suggest to you that it comes from the labour laws which allow an unscrupulous employer to run over people's rights.

The other thing I'm amazed by, that amazes a lot of people, is that we've almost turned this dispute — I thought that maybe the War Measures Act had been brought in. Seeing the riot police and the police out there, we are really in a police state. I know innocent people that weren't even involved with the dispute that have been given injunc tions. My God, this is Alberta; it's not Chile. We'd better find that that problem may be creating it. What you have is the city of Edmonton taxpayers and the provincial tax payers basically supporting Pocklington's private army to put people down.

I say that, and I say it with all the conviction I can give in this Legislature. The problems are there, Mr. Speaker, but as I've said before, we will attempt to lay out solutions here. On Monday next we will be presenting a private member's Bill that would make it illegal to cross a picket line. If we'd had this Act, we wouldn't have had this dispute and we wouldn't have the victims we have right now. We could do that in this Legislature quickly, if we were serious about ending this dispute. So we'll see the government's commitment to ending it.

I'm trying to give them all the help I can, because Lord knows they need lots of help. The other point that could be done — that's just one part of it. The whole labour Act should be thrown out. Shred it, throw it away, and let's start to build one that is fair, modern, and that takes in both management's rights and labour's rights. To do that, Mr. Speaker, we will also give a suggestion to this government.

On Tuesday next there will be a motion under the appointment of the Standing Order of the Assembly and Public Affairs, pursuant to Standing Order 49, the Labour Relations Act, that we set up a standing committee, which we've had experience doing. When we wanted to take the health workers' rights away, we had committees in here. They were trumped up by management people that wanted to come in and change the laws to take away rights. So we have that precedent. But we're suggesting that we do this: the standing com mittee be undertaken to hold public hearings at the Leg

June 13, 1986 ALBERTA HANSARD 23 islature and at such other population centres across Alberta, not fewer than five such centres as may be determined upon a motion moved in the standing committee by a member of the Executive Council designed for this purpose by the Executive Council. Be it further resolved that as part of its inquiries, the standing committee solicit written submissions in addition to those oral and written submissions received at public holdings, and that they report back on November 30.

What we are suggesting is that we recognize — rather than study and make excuses and dither and wither as things get worse, that we bring in that one Act that would solve this particular Gainers' dispute and go back and find a decent labour Act and spend some time doing it. Surely that's the responsibility of this Assembly, and we would be proceeding with that in the House. I'd like to refer to the government's answers. First of all, we have the minister saying: "Well, I'm really on the job. I don't know what to do. I'll look through the Act. What can I do to make it look like I'm doing something?

Let me see, let me see. Eeny meeny — oh, yes, a Disputes Inquiry Board. That will give me 20 days where I don't have to do anything, yet I can tell the people that I'm doing something." This is a total and absolute waste of time, and I suggest to the minister that there are two reasons he brought it in, as I see it. One is, as I said, to stall for time. The second is that I believe, looking at the history, that every time this Disputes Inquiry Board has been brought in, it's been to end a legitimate strike on the side of the employers. I go back, Mr. Speaker.

It was first used in Alberta to end the coal strike in Lethbridge in 1912. Mackenzie King, one of your colleagues, was the Labour minister, and he had drafted the model of the DIB when he was breaking coal strikes for the Rockefellers in Colorado. They did break it; it was successful. Nobody ever said that Mackenzie King wasn't successful when he went out to do something. But in Alberta it's been used only once since, and that was recently. That was during the nurses' strike.

If you recall, the members rejected it overwhelmingly, as these members will, and were supported by the public appeals, which were overturned. But you know what they did as a result of that? Ah, the members don't want it, not going along with the government way, so what they did was introduce Bill 44 from that, taking people's rights away. That was their answer: taking working people's rights away from them. And I say to this minister that if this is what your purpose is, to send people back to work under those circumstances, without solving the problem, then you're going to create more friction out there.

So be very careful, Mr. Speaker, how you intend to use this board. Because I predict that if you think that the union leaders in this case are not speaking for the membership, you're dreaming in technicolour. You just haven't been out there. So I suggest to you, be very careful with what you do or you're going to create more problems. Let me conclude, Mr. Speaker, by saying to the people here: give up the extreme right-wing ways you thought were working, recognize that the people have spoken in this province and that they will speak again in four years.

I remember all the laughter when I said that there would be a big opposition, the arrogance of the government over there laughing: oh, no; they'll vote for us no matter what. The people of Alberta showed you. They'll show you again. It's not the time of the WCC. It's not the extreme right. It's ordinary people that want answers from this government, and the last thing they want are outdated labour laws. They want a sense of fairness and justice in this province. If this government brings back fairness and justice, I as the Leader of the Opposition will be the first up on my feet to support them.

But if they go on the way they've been going and try to avoid the serious problems facing ordinary people in a fairness way, they're going to find an opposition that is determined to take them on every step of the way. It will be a long, hard session for Conservative backbenchers as they sit there on their hands. It gets very boring there. The opposition now has the power to do that. So I offer an either/or: co-operation or confrontation, here in the House. It's up to the way the government proceeds with their business from here on in. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. MR. GOGO: Mr.

Speaker, it's been an extremely interesting and exciting morning, and in view of that, I would like to beg leave to adjourn the debate. MR. SPEAKER: Does the Assembly agree with the motion by the Member for Lethbridge West? HON. MEMBERS: Agreed. MR. CRAWFORD: Mr. Speaker. I move we call it 1 o'clock. MR. SPEAKER: Does the Assembly agree with the motion by the hon. Government House Leader. HON. MEMBERS: Agreed. [At 12:19 p.m., pursuant to Standing Order 4, the House adjourned to Monday at 2:30 p.m.]

24 ALBERTA HANSARD June 13, 1986

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