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June 24, 1998

36th Parliament, 2nd Session

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Hansard Transcripts

vol. A

Hansard Transcripts

vol. B

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

L032a - Wed 24 Jun 1998 / Mer 24 Jun 1998 1

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

ITALIAN CANADIAN COMMUNITY

COMMUNITY CARE ACCESS CENTRES

SEWAGE AND WATER TREATMENT

NATIONAL UNITY

GOVERNMENT SERVICES

NORFOLK CO-OPERATIVE

SCHOOL CLOSURES

AIR QUALITY

ICE CREAM FESTIVAL

MEMBER'S PRIVILEGE

MEMBER'S CONDUCT

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE ON REGULATIONS AND PRIVATE BILLS

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

COURTS OF JUSTICE AMENDMENT ACT (IMPROVED FAMILY COURT), 1998 / LOI DE 1998 MODIFIANT LA

LOI SUR LES TRIBUNAUX JUDICIAIRES (AMÉLIORATION DE LA COUR DE LA FAMILLE)

GORDIE KIRWAN EDUCATION AMENDMENT ACT (EXCEPTIONAL PUPILS), 1998 / LOI GORDIE KIRWAN DE 1998 MODIFIANT LA

LOI SUR L'ÉDUCATION (ÉLÈVES EN DIFFICULTÉ)

HEALTH CARE ACCOUNTABILITY AND PATIENTS' BILL OF RIGHTS ACT, 1998 / LOI DE 1998 SUR L'OBLIGATION DE RENDRE DES COMPTES À L'ÉGARD DES SOINS DE SANTÉ ET SUR LA DÉCLARATION DES DROITS DES PATIENTS

SUNNYBROOK AND WOMEN'S COLLEGE HEALTH SCIENCES CENTRE ACT, 1998 / LOI DE 1998 SUR LE CENTRE APPELÉ SUNNYBROOK AND WOMEN'S COLLEGE HEALTH SCIENCES CENTRE

PETERBOROUGH GENERAL HOSPITAL ACT, 1998

JUVENILE DELINQUENTS ACT (ONTARIO), 1998 / LOI DE 1998 SUR LES JEUNES DÉLINQUANTS (ONTARIO)

STANDING COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT AGENCIES

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY AND RESPONSES

GOVERNMENT'S AGENDA

SENIOR ACHIEVEMENT AWARDS

GOVERNMENT'S AGENDA

SENIOR ACHIEVEMENT AWARDS

GOVERNMENT'S AGENDA

FÊTE DE LA SAINT-JEAN-BAPTISTE / SAINT-JEAN-BAPTISTE DAY

DEFERRED VOTES

ELECTION STATUTE LAW AMENDMENT ACT, 1998 / LOI DE 1998 MODIFIANT DES LOIS EN CE QUI CONCERNE LES ÉLECTIONS

ORAL QUESTIONS

HOSPITAL RESTRUCTURING

SERVICES FOR THE DISABLED

GOVERNMENT ADVERTISING

POVERTY

ONTARIO HYDRO

VOLUNTEER CHILDREN'S SERVICES

ICE STORM

EDUCATION FUNDING

FOREST FIREFIGHTING

APPRENTICESHIP TRAINING

MOTIONS

COMMITTEE SITTINGS

PETITIONS

CHARITABLE GAMING

YOUNG OFFENDERS

ABORTION

MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES

PROTECTION FOR HEALTH CARE WORKERS

NURSES' BILL OF RIGHTS

PROTECTION FOR HEALTH CARE WORKERS

ABORTION

LINHAVEN HOME FOR THE AGED

FIREARMS CONTROL

CHARITABLE GAMING

OCCUPATIONAL HEALTH AND SAFETY

CHIROPRACTIC HEALTH CARE

NURSES' BILL OF RIGHTS

ORDERS OF THE DAY

TIME ALLOCATION

The House met at 1332.

Prayers.

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

ITALIAN CANADIAN COMMUNITY

Ms Annamarie Castrilli (Downsview): Today marks a double celebration for Canada. We commemorate Saint-Jean-Baptiste Day, but we also remember the landfall on this day 501 years ago of an enterprising explorer off the coast of what we now know as Canada.

Giovanni Caboto, citizen of Venice in the service of England's King Henry II, is said to have landed off the coast of Newfoundland where the town of Bonavista now stands. In fact, the town is said to owe its name to a phrase uttered by Caboto. On seeing land he exclaimed, "O bona vista," Italian for, "Oh, what a beautiful sight." He then planted the flags of Venice and England.

Canadians of Italian origin have been builders of roads, buildings, railways and businesses. They have contributed to the artistic and professional life of Canada. And they have built bridges of tolerance and respect among all peoples in this country.

That is why a former Liberal leader, David Peterson, some 10 years ago declared today Giovanni Caboto Day, and it is why today we pay tribute not just to an Italian explorer, but to the significant contributions and legacy through the centuries of a vibrant Canadian community of Italian origin.

COMMUNITY CARE ACCESS CENTRES

Ms Shelley Martel (Sudbury East): With less than a week to go in the month of June, the Minister of Health has yet to make good on her promise to give more money to the northern community care centres. In a radio interview on June 10, Minister Witmer said, "We are going to be indicating this month what initial amount of money is going to be available...and obviously the CCACs in the north, as elsewhere, will be receiving additional money."

This contrasts greatly with what the Sudbury-Manitoulin CCAC has already been told by ministry staff in Sudbury. On three separate occasions the executive director and the chair of the board have been told they will not receive additional money this year or next year. In fact, they won't see any more money added to the base budget until the year 2000. No wonder the Minister of Health still has not released the details of funding for northern CCACs.

The fact is, since elected, the Harris government has cut $8.6 million from Sudbury hospitals, with more cuts coming this year. People are being discharged faster than ever before and they need community health services to get well again. In Sudbury-Manitoulin, nursing visits increased 25% and homemaking services 14%. Between October 1997 and April 1998 the entire budget of $20.1 million was spent. That is why the Sudbury-Manitoulin CCAC has requested an additional $2.1 million to meet its needs.

It's time for the minister to come clean on this issue. She made a promise. Release the budget numbers so we know if our CCAC will be getting additional -

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Thank you.

SEWAGE AND WATER TREATMENT

Mr Bill Grimmett (Muskoka-Georgian Bay): I want to speak today about water and the importance of clean water to Ontarians and to the people of Muskoka-Georgian Bay, who are blessed with the richest fresh water resources in the province.

While some would suggest that the environment is suffering, in fact our government has been able, through strong fiscal management, to invest significantly in the restoration of our water resources.

A week and a half ago, I participated in a ceremony in Midland marking the completion of an $8.4-million upgrade of the town's waste water treatment facility. The provincial government contributed $3.3 million to this project, which includes a state-of-the-art primary digester, a large egg-shaped device that uses heat treatment to eliminate organics and bacteria in waste water.

Other recent funding announcements include a provincial commitment to provide assistance for the construction of a communal sewage collection and treatment system for the community of Port Severn. Approximately $3.8 million has been advanced for this project.

Earlier this month, the provincial water protection fund announced that Tay township will benefit from two grants totalling more than $5 million to construct a new sewage treatment plant to serve the residents of these communities.

The list of provincially assisted environmental improvement projects since 1995 which have been funded to clean up the Severn sound area alone totals over $23 million.

Port Carling will benefit from a grant of up to $3.5 million to construct a new water treatment plant.

These announcements are a good indication of the commitment this government has to protect the environment and ensure a safe drinking water supply -

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Thank you.

NATIONAL UNITY

Mr Tony Ruprecht (Parkdale): As part of the Canadian unity parade on July 1, representatives of national congresses of ethnocultural Canadians have taken a giant historic step to foster national unity.

A second step in terms of the rapprochement with Quebec is the national unity parade on July 1. I might remind members, all of you are invited to come with us. There will be signs which will say, "We need you, Quebec, because you are part of our indivisible family."

I simply say to this assembly, I hope that many of you will participate so that together we can say with one voice to this country, "Long live Canada and long live Quebec."

I remind all the members that together we can have one strong voice and together we can make a difference.

GOVERNMENT SERVICES

Mr Rosario Marchese (Fort York): I rise to address the loss of timely and effective government service for my constituents and for the people of Ontario.

Ombudsman Roberta Jamieson reports that the drastic financial cutbacks facing ministries and related agencies have resulted in increased public frustration with many government services. According to the Ombudsman's report, there have been unacceptable delays in services provided by several key agencies, including the Human Rights Commission, the Workplace Safety and Insurance Appeals Tribunal and the adoption disclosure registry.

One of my constituents, Gillian McCrostie, has been searching for her birth mother through the ADR, the adoption disclosure register, and has waited eight years for some information. Her birth mother is 80 years old now and delays like this are potentially cruel. The financial inability to secure consistent staff has opened many agencies up to what the Ombudsman has called the "possibility of public or private influence," something the Tory agenda exposes us all to.

These far-reaching cutbacks to key services threaten the credibility of the whole public service. As the Ombudsman's report shows, Ontarians are frustrated. The loss of equitable and timely public service is a consequence of heavy-handed Tory cuts.

People are very slowly but surely feeling the disastrous effects of Tory cutbacks.

NORFOLK CO-OPERATIVE

Mr Toby Barrett (Norfolk): I wish to congratulate my friends and neighbours in Norfolk who are members of the Norfolk Co-operative in celebrating the founding of their organization.

It has been 80 years since J. "Alex" Wallace met with two of his farming neighbours following a Sunday church service and took the first step towards establishing a farmers' cooperative on January 18, 1918. Our farm also joined the co-op in that year.

The first directors included Horace Kellam, Windham; W.A. Bowyer, North Walsingham; Herschel Glover and Harry Hall, Townsend; and Perry Sowden from Woodhouse. The dream of these early founders has come to embody the spirit of hardworking people in Norfolk.

From its founding as a feed mill providing lower-priced feed to farmer members, emphasis at the co-op shifted to grain marketing, and later machinery, fertilizer and lumber, a division where I worked a number of years ago.

The cooperative, centred in Simcoe, expanded to Jarvis in 1943, Courtland in 1946 and Waterford in 1949.

For 80 years, dedicated and professional members and employees have been rising to the challenges of good and not-so-good times to ensure that the ideals of the Norfolk co-op are maintained.

I'm proud of my friends and neighbours who support the Norfolk Co-operative and I wish to congratulate them on the 80th anniversary of this organization.

SCHOOL CLOSURES

Mr Dwight Duncan (Windsor-Walkerville): Today in our local newspaper, reporting on the deliberations that occurred at the Windsor-Essex district school board, we in our community learned that at least four high schools are on the block, threatened to be closed by September 1999. Two of those schools happen to be in my riding: W.D. Lowe and Walkerville collegiate institute.

The members of the government opposite understand what the people at the Windsor and Essex public school board -

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Do you know what? I think we need a little order, actually. It's a little disruptive in here. I understand that you're getting together for a couple of meetings, but it's important that we have those meetings outside rather than in here when a member has the floor. Okay? Don't even go there.

Mr Duncan: What the Windsor and Essex public school board said is that these schools will have to be closed as a direct result of the government's funding formula. The school board does not have the money to supply heat, electricity and other essential items that this government didn't consider important to classroom education. What we're left with is the downtown core of our city being robbed of two high schools; two schools that are well-populated, two schools that offer unique programs, two schools that serve special needs populations, two schools that have a deep and ingrained history in our province.

Indeed, just last year the Premier sent a congratulatory note to one of those schools on its 75th anniversary. It's truly a shame that this has to happen.

I say to the Minister of Education and I say to the government, the people of my community know who is responsible and who will be responsible for those closings. It's you and your cuts to education.

AIR QUALITY

Mr Wayne Lessard (Windsor-Riverside): Today is another one of those bad-air days. There are high levels of smog, high humidity and dangerously high levels of low-level ozone.

In Windsor-Riverside the weather is warm and the sun is shining, but unfortunately the air stinks, and it's going to get worse. Across the Detroit River there is a dirty, coal-fired power generation plant called Conners Creek. It's been dormant for over 10 years, but now Detroit Edison has decided that because of Michigan residents requiring more power, Conners Creek should be reopened. This is despite the fact that the plant's air pollution control equipment was last upgraded in the 1970s.

I don't need to remind the Minister of the Environment that Windsor's air cannot tolerate any more pollution from the United States. The Ontario Medical Association has identified Windsor's air as the worst in the country. We know it's going to lead to the premature deaths of over 1,800 people in Ontario. The Environmental Commissioner has requested that the Ministry of the Environment take steps to deal with this, but to date nothing has been done.

I know the minister is scheduled to meet with Michigan representatives on July 8, but that's too late. The plant is set to open on July 1. We need a commitment from the Minister of the Environment to prevent this plant from reopening.

ICE CREAM FESTIVAL

Mr Ernie Hardeman (Oxford): Preparations are well under way for an exciting event to be held soon in my riding. Oxford county has long been known as the Dairy Capital of Canada. In celebration of our progressive dairy industry, we plan to host Canada's first Ice Cream Festival on July 4 and July 5, the weekend following Canada Day.

I believe this is the first ice cream festival that has ever been held in Canada. This unique event is being organized by the Oxford County Tourist Association with the support of the Dairy Farmers of Canada and Ontario and the city of Woodstock.

A Grow Ontario grant from the Ministry of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs and the participation of eight private sector ice cream manufacturers have also been instrumental in the planning and promotion of the event.

Thousands of Ontarians are expected to visit Southside Park, Museum Square and the theatre in the Market Centre in Woodstock, where events will include free ice cream sampling, ice cream contests and demonstrations. Whether your favourite is an ice cream cone, sundae, float, shake or banana split, Canada's Ice Cream Festival will offer treats for all tastes. Creative ice cream connoisseurs will be able to build their own exotic desserts in the Signature Sundae or the Giant Banana Boat contests.

Visitors to the festival will enjoy a crafters' market, Village Militia Muster, military demonstrations, midway rides, live entertainment and more. Admission is free and the festival will operate during the hours of 11 am to 6 pm.

I would like to extend an invitation to all Ontarians to join me in Woodstock, the Dairy Capital of Canada, on July 4 and 5, for Canada's first Ice Cream Festival.

MEMBER'S PRIVILEGE

Hon David Turnbull (Minister without Portfolio): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: At a late hour yesterday evening, the Chair failed to recognize me. Unfortunately, I showed my annoyance and I regret that.

MEMBER'S CONDUCT

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): I thank the chief government whip for that statement. It kind of leads into a statement I was prepared to make today.

I beg the indulgence of the House to address a state of affairs which has become very concerning to all the presiding officers, and in fact to many other members.

There can be no doubt that the fundamental prerequisite for this assembly to function is that all members conduct themselves in a way that demonstrates a basic acceptance of the dignity of this chamber. We all are honoured to have been chosen by our electors to represent them in this, their House. To conduct ourselves, as the public's temporary delegates, in a way that brings disrepute to the proceedings of the assembly is disrespectful to them, and to the traditions of Parliament.

Aside from matters of general order and decorum, perhaps the most important manifestation of this respect is the quality of our response to the Chair. Your Speaker, and any Speaker, chosen by you, is charged with the responsibility of upholding the many noble traditions of our parliamentary democracy. When the Chair is treated with disrespect, then disrespect falls upon each of us, and the rightful expectations of the public can only be undermined. Challenges to the Chair are challenges upon the rules and traditions that we must collectively agree to be governed by.

I can understand - and I can understand - that in some situations emotions may run rather high. Members may be inclined to disagree with rulings, and I accept the fact that they disagree with the rulings, and may do or say things that on second thought may be considered unwise, and I understand that as well. I would think that all honourable members would have an interest in maintaining the respect due to this place and later apologize, as the chief government whip has done today, and I appreciate that.

Members must realize that this state of affairs puts the presiding officers - and I speak, I think, for all presiding officers here - in an untenable position, and makes impossible their duty to enforce the observance of all rules for preserving order in our proceedings.

To paraphrase Erskine May, the Speaker, and in turn the presiding officers, are the representatives of this House itself in its powers, proceedings and dignity.

Such attacks on the Chair as we have seen recently will not in future be tolerated. Members will be called upon in these situations to immediately apologize. Refusal may result in naming.

The responsibility - and I want to be very clear with the members. The responsibility for preserving the dignity and respect of this House deserves to fall upon all of us. I appeal to the House to honour this call to heed and uphold the fine traditions of this place.

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE ON REGULATIONS AND PRIVATE BILLS

Mr Toby Barrett (Norfolk): I beg leave to present a report from the standing committee on regulations and private bills and move its adoption.

Clerk at the Table (Ms Lisa Freedman): Your committee begs to report the following bill without amendment:

Bill Pr21,

An Act respecting Canadian Information Processing Society of Ontario.

Your committee begs to report the following bill as amended:

Pr18,

An Act respecting Eastern Pentecostal Bible College.

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Shall the report be received and adopted? Agreed.

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

COURTS OF JUSTICE AMENDMENT ACT (IMPROVED FAMILY COURT), 1998 / LOI DE 1998 MODIFIANT LA

LOI SUR LES TRIBUNAUX JUDICIAIRES (AMÉLIORATION DE LA COUR DE LA FAMILLE)

Mr Harnick moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 48,

An Act to Improve Court Services for Families by Facilitating Expansion of the Family Court and to make other amendments to the Courts of Justice Act / Projet de loi 48, Loi visant à améliorer les services fournis aux familles par les tribunaux en facilitant l'expansion de la Cour de la famille et apportant d'autres modifications à la

Loi sur les tribunaux judiciaires.

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Hon Charles Harnick (Attorney General, minister responsible for native affairs): These amendments will confirm the overall authority of the Chief Justice for the Unified Family Court and will fully integrate the Unified Family Court within the General Division to accommodate its future expansion while maintaining its distinct and unique characteristics.

GORDIE KIRWAN EDUCATION AMENDMENT ACT (EXCEPTIONAL PUPILS), 1998 / LOI GORDIE KIRWAN DE 1998 MODIFIANT LA

LOI SUR L'ÉDUCATION (ÉLÈVES EN DIFFICULTÉ)

Mr McGuinty moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 49,

An Act to amend the Education Act with respect to exceptional pupils to allow the Premier to keep his promise to Gordie Kirwan / Projet de loi 49, Loi modifiant la

Loi sur l'éducation en ce qui concerne les élèves en difficulté pour permettre au premier ministre de tenir la promesse qu'il a faite à Gordie Kirwan.

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Mr Dalton McGuinty (Leader of the Opposition): Under the Education Act, all students are required to leave the regular school system, regardless of their progress, once they reach the age of 21. The act does not have the flexibility to address the needs of adult special needs students like Gordie Kirwan.

In February 1995, Mike Harris promised Gordie's father, Rob, that if you formed the next government, he would amend the Education Act to remedy this problem. He has not done so. My bill will do so.

HEALTH CARE ACCOUNTABILITY AND PATIENTS' BILL OF RIGHTS ACT, 1998 / LOI DE 1998 SUR L'OBLIGATION DE RENDRE DES COMPTES À L'ÉGARD DES SOINS DE SANTÉ ET SUR LA DÉCLARATION DES DROITS DES PATIENTS

Mrs Boyd moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 50,

An Act to promote patients' rights and to increase accountability in Ontario's health care system / Projet de loi 50, Loi visant à promouvoir les droits des patients et à accroître l'obligation de rendre des comptes dans le système de soins de santé de l'Ontario.

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Mrs Marion Boyd (London Centre): This bill codifies the rights of residents of Ontario who receive health care services in the form of a Patients' Bill of Rights. The bill provides for the appointment of a health care standards commissioner as an officer of this Legislature who will perform functions such as participating in the setting of health care standards and the development of complaints procedures, monitoring health care standards, and making recommendations to the Minister of Health and to the Legislature.

The bill establishes whistle blowing protection for employees of providers of health care services and the bill requires conspicuous posting of the Patients' Bill of Rights and of the whistle blower protection provisions.

SUNNYBROOK AND WOMEN'S COLLEGE HEALTH SCIENCES CENTRE ACT, 1998 / LOI DE 1998 SUR LE CENTRE APPELÉ SUNNYBROOK AND WOMEN'S COLLEGE HEALTH SCIENCES CENTRE

Mrs Witmer moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 51,

An Act to amalgamate Sunnybrook Hospital and Orthopaedic and Arthritic Hospital and to transfer all assets and liabilities of Women's College Hospital to the amalgamated hospital / Projet de loi 51, Loi fusionnant les hôpitaux nommés Sunnybrook Hospital et Orthopaedic and Arthritic Hospital et transférant l'actif et le passif de l'hôpital nommé Women's College Hospital à l'hôpital issu de la fusion.

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Hon Elizabeth Witmer (Minister of Health): This is a bill that will enable the three hospitals to proceed with the directives of the Health Services Restructuring Commission, and it does have the support of all of the three hospitals.

PETERBOROUGH GENERAL HOSPITAL ACT, 1998

Mr Stewart moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill Pr20,

An Act representing Peterborough General Hospital.

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

JUVENILE DELINQUENTS ACT (ONTARIO), 1998 / LOI DE 1998 SUR LES JEUNES DÉLINQUANTS (ONTARIO)

Mr Jim Brown moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 52,

An Act to curtail Repeat Offences by Juvenile Delinquents / Projet de loi 52, Loi visant à inciter les jeunes délinquants à ne pas récidiver.

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry?

All those in favour, please say "aye."

All those opposed, please say "nay."

In my opinion, the ayes have it. I declare the motion carried.

STANDING COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT AGENCIES

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): I beg leave to inform the House that today the Clerk received the fifth report of the standing committee on government agencies.

Pursuant to standing order 105(g)(9), the report is deemed to be adopted by this House.

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY AND RESPONSES

GOVERNMENT'S AGENDA

Hon Chris Hodgson (Chair of the Management Board of Cabinet, Minister of Northern Development and Mines): I am pleased to announce that I have tabled the government's 1998-99 business plans for all the ministries. These documents demonstrate our commitment to open and accountable public service and a businesslike approach to managing public resources.

This is the third year that all ministries have produced business plans. In conjunction with the Ontario budget and the printed estimates, they provide more disclosure than ever before to the Legislature and to the public on how taxpayers' money is being spent.

This year we focused on improving our performance measures to allow the public to see more clearly how we are meeting our objectives. I want to thank my colleagues Bill Grimmett, John Baird, Harry Danford, Dan Newman, Lillian Ross and Bruce Smith, who served on a special review committee of parliamentary assistants, for their hard work in reviewing and refining performance measures for each ministry.

The ministries have included an annual report on significant achievements over the past year and a

summary of expenditures. The business plans set ambitious targets for improvements, and we'll be holding the ministries accountable for achieving results.

Priority initiatives for this year are building on the progress that has been made in the areas that mean the most to people: education, health care, social services and personal safety. For example:

The Ministry of Health will begin implementing an eight-year expansion of long-term-care services. It will also continue the expansion of mental health services. These strategic investments will support health care restructuring and ensure Ontarians have access to quality services, when they need them and close to home.

The community policing partnership program in the Ministry of the Solicitor General and Correctional Services is committed to helping municipalities hire up to 1,000 new front-line officers to enhance public safety in communities.

And we will be continuing to focus on improving the lives of children by bringing together services from several different ministries that support Ontario families.

I want to reaffirm our government's intention to continue to move forward towards achieving all the goals that it promised the people of Ontario three years ago: a strong and prosperous economy, good jobs for Ontario's workers, safe communities, high-quality education for our children, a first-class health care system and an innovative, accountable public service.

We recognize that the dollars we spend belong to taxpayers, and we are accountable for spending this money wisely.

SENIOR ACHIEVEMENT AWARDS

Hon Cameron Jackson (Minister without Portfolio [Seniors Issues]): It is a great honour to announce today that the province is recognizing the outstanding volunteer efforts of 22 very special Ontario seniors through the presentation of the Ontario Senior Achievement Awards.

Our theme for this, the fourth and final week of Seniors' Month, is volunteerism, and we are celebrating all of the efforts of Ontario's 1.4 million seniors. In fact, 80% of all the volunteer work done in this province is done by our senior citizens.

Today's seniors are showing real leadership in their efforts on behalf of communities all across our province. Throughout their lives, they have displayed that special community spirit that builds and maintains the high quality of life we've come to appreciate in Ontario.

This year's Senior Achievement Awards recipients have seen what needed to be done in their communities. They responded by taking on a number of very special and important volunteer efforts in their senior years. One such recipient this evening founded a library in her community. Several have organized seniors' groups where none previously existed, creating new recreational opportunities and becoming stronger voices for seniors. Others volunteer in schools, lead fund-raising efforts and support multiculturalism in our province.

I'm pleased to announce this year's recipients to the members of the House. They are Helen Bell of Nepean, George Blyth of Colborne, Sam Bowman of Markham, Cheng Wan To of Toronto, Margaret Crawford of St Catharines, Duncan Crone of Barrie, Robert Darragh of Campbellford, Leila Ann Gordon of Kagawong on Manitoulin Island, Eileen Hamilton of Wroxeter, Fred and Nancy Joudrey of Peterborough, J. David Kennedy of Guelph, Laurence King of Eganville, Terry and Betty O'Brien of Eganville, Mary Packard of Haliburton, Lucienne Prévost of Sudbury, Don Slinger of Port Rowan, Frederick Speed of Toronto, Robert Tardif of Windsor, Sivasambo Thiagaraja of Toronto, and Stella Yule of Toronto as well.

The Honourable Hilary Weston, the Lieutenant Governor of Ontario, will be joining me in officially recognizing the recipients tonight on the grand staircase of this historic building, commencing at 6 o'clock. All members of the House are invited.

Following our Intergenerational Week, our Caregivers Week and its symposium, and our third week, Safety and Security Week, the ceremony will be a wonderful finale to our Seniors' Month activities. This year's events have been especially exciting as we prepare for 1999, which the United Nations has declared as the International Year of Older Persons.

Across Ontario our seniors are making a real difference in their local communities. I know that all members of this House will join me in offering all seniors in this province our congratulations, and especially those special individuals we are acknowledging this evening for their outstanding contributions to making Ontario one of the greatest places in the world to live, to work and to raise and care for a family.

Mr James J. Bradley (St Catharines): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: I would like to request unanimous consent of the entire assembly to allow the Minister of Health an opportunity to tell the House how much these full-page ads in the newspapers cost the taxpayers of Ontario.

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Agreed? I heard a no.

Mr Gerry Phillips (Scarborough-Agincourt): I am pleased to comment on the remarks dealing with seniors. I think everybody in this province appreciates the tremendous asset we have in our seniors. It points out that 80% of the volunteer work is now done by seniors. Certainly, I don't think Ontario could function without the resources of our seniors who are doing so much good work in virtually every organization. We salute them and salute the 21 who will be recognized.

When I heard the minister was making an announcement, I thought perhaps he was going to revisit a commitment the government made before the election, and that was that seniors would not be paying user fees on drugs. The document they still keep and talk to me about - I will be visiting some of them this week - said that they would use the fair share health levy to fund it. I am quoting here: "Under this plan there will be no new user fees."

The seniors in my community have not forgotten that pledge. They are now paying a substantial amount in user fees and they will hold Mike Harris accountable for that.

GOVERNMENT'S AGENDA

Mr Alex Cullen (Ottawa West): I am responding to the statement by the Chairman of Management Board with respect to the tabling of the government's business plans for 1998-99.

I have to say it is a plan that is not working for the ordinary taxpayer in Ontario. This is a government that likes to boast that it does more for less, but the taxpayers of Ontario are receiving less service at more cost.

With the gutting of the civil service, within the departments there is less service. We have government by 1-800 number. It is very difficult for any ordinary resident in Ontario to contact - whether it's the Family Responsibility Office, Workers' Compensation Board or what have you.

Even more frightening is the vision that is contained in here with respect to health care. Here we are dealing with a government that is in the process of closing some 36 hospitals in Ontario, despite the Premier's promise not to close any hospitals in Ontario. Here we're dealing with growing waiting lists and less service in our hospitals because this government has forced the layoff of over 10,000 nurses.

Here we're dealing with a government that talks about long-term care, but can't even get its act organized to give money for home care needed in our communities. One quarter of the way through the fiscal year, three months into the fiscal year, CCACs still don't know what they're getting from this government.

Here is a government that promises money for long-term care, yet in Ottawa-Carleton they are going to be providing, over eight years, 1,280 beds. The waiting list today is over 1,400 beds. What's going to happen in eight years' time?

This sad and sorry litany continues within these so-called business plans, where we find tuition being raised in education by over 60% and yet there is no plan here to help the students of ordinary working families, middle-class families, here in Ontario to get the education to help them further their lives and become contributing members of our community.

We also find that in terms of developmental services, services for the developmentally disabled, this government is saying, "Make more with less funds." Yet we have crying needs in the area of the developmentally delayed in terms of dyslexic, in terms of autistic homes, and yet we find this government wanting to close down beds, remove programs, use existing funds to try to meet a need it cannot cope with within existing resources.

This is not a government that's listening. This is a government that likes to spend taxpayers' dollars on promoting its fine achievements,

whereas those moneys could be better spent making sure we have adequate health care and adequate services to serve the taxpayers in Ontario.

The list goes on. In here we find the plan for the Attorney General, while at the same time, through the cuts, through municipal downloading, we find there's less money for police services to do their jobs. The list goes on. I can speak in terms of environmental protection, where we've had organization after organization coming up and talking about the decline of ability to protect the very air we breathe, the very water we drink, yet it's not there because this government's plan is to gut environmental protection.

I could go on. The government has been so kind as to give me many more. When we talk about the Ministry of Transportation, anyone seeking to deal with their licence again has to go through the rubric of 1-800 numbers, long distance calls, the inability to get an adequate response from this government that says it's trying to do more with less. It is doing less with less. The taxpayers of Ontario are expecting to find value for their money and they're not getting it here.

SENIOR ACHIEVEMENT AWARDS

Mrs Marion Boyd (London Centre): I'm pleased to have an opportunity to respond to the statement by the minister responsible for seniors. He is certainly right that we all owe a lot to the seniors of this province.

It is quite fitting during Seniors' Month that we recognize their very special abilities, their special contributions to our community. Every one of us here knows of seniors who contribute heavily to their communities today and all of us know that the seniors of today were the taxpayers of yesterday who created the services that this government is tearing apart. While we recognize the efforts and the abilities and the contributions of seniors, we must also recognize that many of them are very disappointed at seeing the work of their lifetime eroded by this government.

I want to say very clearly to the minister responsible for seniors that while we all appreciate the truly volunteer activities that seniors undertake in our communities, there are thousands of unsung heroes out there who are volunteering in a very different sense, looking after their aged partners, their aged relatives, looking after their disabled children with no recognition at all - no recognition in terms of service provision, no recognition in terms of support, no recognition in terms of respite.

So while I join the minister absolutely in his celebration of the award winners and their very fine contribution, I want us in this Legislature to clearly recognize the efforts of those unsung heroes who are the providers of long-term care within their homes.

GOVERNMENT'S AGENDA

Mr Howard Hampton (Rainy River): The government has indeed presented its business plans for 1998-99. Unfortunately, the business plans that have been presented today bear absolutely no relationship to reality. For example, I turn to the

section on children and it says that "the government is very proud of its agenda with respect to children and the implementation of early intervention and prevention initiatives."

Is this the same government that took $37 a month out of the mouths of pregnant mothers and said that it was doing it because it had evidence that pregnant mothers were spending the money on beer? Is this the same government that has cut 22% from social assistance, when we know that over half of the social assistance recipients in this province are children?

Is this the same government that through its cuts to education has ensured that boards of education have had to lay off speech therapists, that boards of education have had to lay off many of the other workers who work in the system to ensure that children who had learning disabilities were diagnosed at an early age? My God, a ghostwriter must have written this

section on children, because he certainly isn't in touch with what's happening in Ontario today as a result of the cuts of the Harris government.

Then I turn to education. The minister talks about a tremendous year of progress. When you put up the tuition fees for university students by $1,100 a year, I guess Conservatives call that progress. And when you put up tuition fees for college students by $600 a year, I guess Conservatives call that progress. And when students who want to go to university now have to face the prospect of a $40,000, $50,000, $60,000 debt, I guess this government calls that progress. And when boards of education - the Niagara board is looking at having to close 37 schools. I guess this government calls that progress.

The Toronto board of education has to lay off 600 teachers and put 8,000 adult learners out in the street. This government calls that progress.

It gets better. The environment: The government talks about building on a better, stronger, clearer environmental agenda. It's very clear. The second report in a week came out saying:

"Environment Report Savages Queen's Park

"A scathing report card on the Ontario government's environmental performance during its third year in office says the province has shown an almost total lack of action on protecting the environment."

I know what this is, this is more taxpayer-paid-for propaganda. It has nothing to do with the reality of what's happening in the province - nothing.

FÊTE DE LA SAINT-JEAN-BAPTISTE / SAINT-JEAN-BAPTISTE DAY

Mr Gilles E. Morin (Carleton East): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: May we have unanimous consent to mark Saint-Jean-Baptiste Day?

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Agreed? Agreed.

In 1925, the Quebec Legislature declared June 24 an official holiday. It was originally a day for French Canadians to come together and celebrate as one big family, a day to affirm and promote patriotic unity. It is in this spirit that I ask all my compatriots to reflect on the future of our beautiful country, Canada, whose birthday we will celebrate next week. At both the constitutional level and in the area of national unity, Canada still seems to be evolving. In other words, we still have a tremendous amount of work to do. Our ancestors paved the way for us. They managed to overcome the obstacles that confronted them and to keep our country as one.

Like our ancestors, we too have been confronted by forces that have threatened to tear our country apart. It is important to remember that twice Quebeckers rejected separation, twice they chose an undivided Canada. Ontario has always played a key role within Canada and has earned the respect of Quebec. As the country's richest, most populated province, it is Ontario's duty to set an example of true understanding and generosity. In this light, let us go out and show the world that Canada is more than a country; it is a state of mind, one that is open to taking a fresh, new outlook on the present and the future.

Saint-Jean-Baptiste Day is also symbolic of the strength and dynamism of the francophone presence in North America and of the pride Quebeckers so rightly have in their culture and their tradition.

M. Gilles Bisson (Cochrane-Sud) : Avec fierté aujourd'hui, comme Franco-Ontarien, j'aimerais signaler de la part du NPD ce que c'est d'être Franco-Ontarien ici dans notre belle province et ce que ça veut dire pour moi.

Je veux vous donner un peu mon histoire, parce que je pense que beaucoup de monde, quand on regarde la Saint-Jean-Baptiste, ont l'habitude de le faire un peu à travers les yeux d'autres personnes qui ne vivent pas en Ontario, une vie très différente. On regarde la province de Québec qui, comme on le sait, a une histoire qui est très réelle et très fort envers tout ce qui s'est passé envers la francophonie canadienne. Mais une autre réalité au Canada, c'est celle des Franco-Ontariens. Moi, je me trouve un petit gars du nord de l'Ontario qui a un père qui vient de Ville-Marie au Québec.

Lui a décidé - pas lui, il n'avait pas le choix, c'est son père qui l'a emmené. Ils partaient du Québec pour venir en Ontario pour s'établir et commencer un commerce.

Dans le commencement des années 1900, mon grand-père est venu dans le bout de Timmins comme bûcheron, comme «jobber», pour défricher la terre de notre coin de la province, pour être capable de gagner le pain pour sa famille, et avec ça, l'autre bord de la famille, les Leroux qui sont venus une génération avant ça, la troisième génération du côté de mon grand-père Leroux, qui est venue dans le nord de l'Ontario pour travailler dans les mines. C'est comme ça que l'on a vu comment le monde, les Franco-Ontariens, s'est rendu dans notre

partie de la province. Ils sont venus pour l'ouvrage, ils sont venus pour être capables de gagner leur pain pour leur famille.

Mais en venant ici, cette génération-là était des francophones qui ne parlaient pas l'anglais au commencement, des francophones qui venaient du Québec, qui avaient une expérience très difficile qui aussi ont élevé leur famille, leurs enfants - mon père, ma mère - dans un environnement qui était francophone à la maison mais anglophone hors de la maison.

En somme, bâtissons un meilleur Ontario pour tous.

M. Marcel Beaubien (Lambton) : C'est très intéressant d'entendre les commentaires de mon collègue de Cochrane-Sud, parce que vraiment moi aussi je suis venu au monde au Québec et j'ai déménagé en Ontario comme mon confrère.

En plus, ce gouvernement a entrepris plusieurs initiatives depuis 1995 pour stimuler l'économie ontarienne, réduire les impôts afin que toute la population ontarienne, incluant les francophones, puisse en bénéficier.

Voici notre vision de l'avenir pour les francophones de l'Ontario : leur participation pleine et entière à la croissance de notre province. Je souhaite à toute la communauté francophone de l'Ontario une bonne Saint-Jean-Baptiste.

DEFERRED VOTES

ELECTION STATUTE LAW AMENDMENT ACT, 1998 / LOI DE 1998 MODIFIANT DES LOIS EN CE QUI CONCERNE LES ÉLECTIONS

Deferred vote on the motion for third reading of Bill 36,

An Act to amend the Election Act and the Election Finances Act, and to make related amendments to other statutes / Projet de loi 36, Loi modifiant la Loi électorale et la

Loi sur le financement des élections et apportant des modifications connexes à d'autres lois.

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Call in the members; there will be a five-minute bell.

The division bells rang from 1429 to 1434.

The Speaker: All those in favour, please rise one at a time and be recognized by the Clerk.

Ayes

Arnott, Ted

Baird, John R.

Barrett, Toby

Bassett, Isabel

Beaubien, Marcel

Boushy, Dave

Brown, Jim

Carr, Gary

Carroll, Jack

Chudleigh, Ted

Clement, Tony

Cunningham, Dianne

Danford, Harry

Doyle, Ed

Eves, Ernie L.

Flaherty, Jim

Ford, Douglas B.

Fox, Gary

Froese, Tom

Grimmett, Bill

Hardeman, Ernie

Harnick, Charles

Harris, Michael D.

Hodgson, Chris

Hudak, Tim

Jackson, Cameron

Johns, Helen

Johnson, Bert

Johnson, David

Jordan, W. Leo

Kells, Morley

Klees, Frank

Leach, Al

Leadston, Gary L.

Marland, Margaret

Martiniuk, Gerry

Munro, Julia

Murdoch, Bill

Newman, Dan

O'Toole, John

Ouellette, Jerry J.

Pettit, Trevor

Rollins, E.J. Douglas

Ross, Lillian

Runciman, Robert W.

Sampson, Rob

Saunderson, William

Sheehan, Frank

Skarica, Toni

Smith, Bruce

Snobelen, John

Spina, Joseph

Sterling, Norman W.

Stewart, R. Gary

Tilson, David

Tsubouchi, David H.

Turnbull, David

Vankoughnet, Bill

Wettlaufer, Wayne

Wilson, Jim

Witmer, Elizabeth

Wood, Bob

Young, Terence H.

The Speaker: All those opposed, please rise one at a time and be recognized by the Clerk.

Nays

Agostino, Dominic

Bartolucci, Rick

Bisson, Gilles

Boyd, Marion

Bradley, James J.

Brown, Michael A.

Caplan, David

Castrilli, Annamarie

Christopherson, David

Colle, Mike

Conway, Sean G.

Cullen, Alex

Curling, Alvin

Duncan, Dwight

Gerretsen, John

Gravelle, Michael

Hampton, Howard

Kormos, Peter

Lalonde, Jean-Marc

Lankin, Frances

Lessard, Wayne

Marchese, Rosario

Martel, Shelley

Martin, Tony

McGuinty, Dalton

Miclash, Frank

Morin, Gilles E.

Patten, Richard

Phillips, Gerry

Pouliot, Gilles

Ramsay, David

Ruprecht, Tony

Sergio, Mario

Silipo, Tony

Wildman, Bud

Wood, Len

Clerk of the House (Mr Claude L. DesRosiers): The ayes are 63; the nays are 36.

The Speaker: I declare the motion carried.

Mr James J. Bradley (St Catharines): There's the money. Buy me an election.

The Speaker: Order. Members, please take your seats. You're out of order. I'm not going to warn the members. Members for Ottawa West and Hamilton East.

Interjections.

The Speaker: I name the members for Ottawa West and Hamilton East. They're both named. Please, you've been named.

Mr Cullen and Mr Agostino were escorted from the chamber.

The Speaker:

Be it resolved that the bill do now pass and be entitled as in the motion.

ORAL QUESTIONS

HOSPITAL RESTRUCTURING

Mr Dalton McGuinty (Leader of the Opposition): My question is for the Premier. Premier, you know we've spent a lot of time in this House bringing to the attention of yourself and the government the consequences of your cuts to hospitals, and we have focused largely on the human cost. We've talked about patients being stacked up in hospital corridors, we've talked about patients being turned away from emergency wards and we've talked about what happens when there aren't enough nurses to provide basic nursing care inside our hospitals.

Today I want to talk about something else. I want to talk about the financial cost, and in particular I want to talk about the Mike Harris hospital-closing tax. We have learned that communities in this province are about to pay for the privilege of having you close their hospitals against their wishes. They are about to pay, for part of your restructuring plans, $400 million. My question to you is quite simple: How does it feel to be the first Premier in Ontario who is charging communities $400 million to close their hospitals against their will?

Hon Michael D. Harris (Premier): Like most of the questions concerning health care, the

preamble and the allegations are simply not true and have about as much veracity as your critic for the Ministry of Health, who has been discredited now all across the province by virtually every case he's raised dealing with hospitals.

If you are referring to the fact that we have for the first time in the history of this province increased the capital funding for new facilities so that the local share is only $400 million instead of $500 million, $600 million or $700 million, as it would have been under your government or the previous administration, for new facilities, for new capital, for new equipment, if you're referring to the fact that we increased the provincial share to record high levels, why don't you tell the public that?

Mr McGuinty: Premier, you specifically said during the course of the campaign that you were not going to close any hospitals. You now have plans to close 35 and, to make matters worse, to make it obscene, you're charging communities to close their hospitals. And we're not talking pennies here.

In Kingston, where you're closing the Hotel Dieu Hospital, you're leaving the community with a $33-million bill. In Hamilton, you're shutting down three hospitals against the wishes of the community. Your hospital-closing tax is going to cost people there $23 million. In my home town, Ottawa, your hospital-closing tax amounts to $38 million. It's bad enough that you broke your promise, but now you're going to charge people for the privilege of closing their hospitals against their will.

I want a straight answer from you: What do you tell the people out there? What do you tell them after you promised not to close hospitals but now you're going to charge them for the privilege of closing their hospitals against their will?

Hon Mr Harris: I tell them that when I was in Thunder Bay, they all came to me and said: "Thank you, Premier. Thank you for giving us the new dollars for a brand-new hospital. Thank you for 70% dollars. Thank you for allowing us to restructure. Thank you for new wings" -

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Order, order. Final supplementary. I'm sorry. Premier.

Hon Mr Harris: The member specifically mentioned Kingston. Here's what Kingston said - nothing about closing: "We're moving 10 blocks to the west and expanding, and it's even better than we thought because the commission listened to our concerns." Major General Frank Norman, chairman of the board of directors of Kingston General Hospital, said, "They've given us an opportunity to take a vision which we had in Kingston 30 years ago." Finally after 30 years some government had the courage to let them move and expand and grow.

The Speaker: Final supplementary.

Mr McGuinty: Perhaps the Premier should pay a visit to Kingston. Seventy thousand people signed a petition in Kingston against the closure of the Hotel Dieu Hospital. Seventy thousand people asked you to keep your promise, Premier, when you said you wouldn't close hospitals in the province of Ontario. Seventy thousand people are now asking why it is that they're going to be saddled with a $33-million bill for the privilege of complying with your demand that the Hotel Dieu Hospital be closed.

You tell me: Where do you get off on this stuff? You make a promise not to close hospitals and you then close 35, and then you charge Ontarians $400 million for the privilege of closing their hospitals against their will. How do you do that?

Hon Mr Harris: Seventy thousand people were opposed to your plans or your plan. But Kingston and Kingston hospital said, "We're in favour of the relocation, we're in favour of the new expansion, we're in favour of the new facilities," and they're saying that all across this province. I'll tell you something else they're saying: "Thank goodness somebody, some leader, some minister, some party, some caucus, after 30 years had the courage to stand up and do what's right so we can have massive expansion and massive new investment into health care."

SERVICES FOR THE DISABLED

Mr Dalton McGuinty (Leader of the Opposition): This question is for the Premier. On May 7 you attended a fund-raiser attended by 700 people in St Catharines. At that time there was a specific reference contained within your speech to Ian Strathern and his parents. Ian Strathern is 22 years of age. He broke his neck as a result of a hockey injury in 1995 that has left him quadriplegic. You were very sympathetic to him in the course of your speech. You said you would not rest until you got him all the help he needed.

His parents are teetering on the edge of bankruptcy. They're paying $1,500 a week, $6,000 a month; they've invested $100,000 in renovations in their home and they have purchased a new van. You said you would not rest until you helped Ian and his parents. That was nearly eight weeks ago. He has applied for special funding. He has been turned down. You said you would not rest until you helped Ian. What are you going to do about it?

Hon Michael D. Harris (Premier): You're right. I will not rest until we have resolved concerns. Due to the privacy act, I can't deal with specific actions or specific files. But I was in St Catharines. There was a record turnout of enthusiastic supporters donating to our party and our cause and wanted to see that extended, including a gentleman whom I don't want to name; you have. Certainly he was enthusiastically there, supportive of our agenda as well. I can assure you of this.

The local member has had a number of meetings. I know the Ministry of Health has as well. I'm satisfied that at the end of the day, while I can't get into specifics, his concerns will be able to be addressed, with insurance, with the community and through programs and assistance from our government.

Mr McGuinty: Premier, clearly you don't understand what you did that night. You took advantage of a political opportunity to score some cheap political points to create the impression that you had a genuine interest in this man and that you could do something for him.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Order. Minister, you must withdraw that comment. That's out of order.

Hon Al Leach (Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing): I withdraw "sleazy."

The Speaker: Minister, you know what? That's not the way it's done, and that isn't parliamentary either.

Interjections.

The Speaker: Order. It's a hot day today, I understand that and I understand that it's going to be a rather difficult question period. But please, I caution the members. We know the parliamentary language that's acceptable and what isn't. Please refrain from using it, because it's only going to raise the temperature of this debate.

Mr Tom Froese (St Catharines-Brock): What about the air-conditioning?

The Speaker: There isn't any air-conditioning; it's broken. I'm doing my best, member for St Catharines-Brock. If you want to jump in if you've got your Phillips handy, we'll take advantage of that as well.

Supplementary.

Mr McGuinty: The

article that appeared the following day in the St Catharines Standard was entitled, "Family Finds Hope."

"`We're still reeling from the good news,' Dave Strathern, Ian's father, said Friday. `It was a shock and a major breakthrough, as far as I'm concerned.'"

Wallace Pidgeon, deputy press secretary to the Premier, said: "The Premier wanted to assure the Stratherns and Ian that he was in their corner. We're going to do what we can to ensure that Ian can get the best services possible."

That was eight weeks ago. This family is about to go bankrupt. They've got a son who's on a ventilator. He requires round-the-clock care. You stood up in a public forum and you said, "This man is my genuine concern and I'm going to do something about it." That was eight weeks ago. You took advantage of a situation. Stand up now and tell us that you're going to fix this today.

Hon Mr Harris: The allegations are about the most silly I've ever heard in 17 years of politics.

Without naming names, there was an individual who was a supporter who came to the fund-raising dinner in support of the Premier of the province of Ontario. I agreed to meet with him. I met with an individual there that evening. I acknowledged that for 100-odd years of Ontario government, under Conservative and Liberal and NDP governments, there was not a program available that would meet all the needs of that individual's son.

I said at that time and I repeat today: "I am on your side. The Liberals may not have found one in five years, the NDP may not have found one in five years, but we will make sure that we do everything we can. You have the Premier of the province of Ontario in your corner." And I can assure you they still do.

Mr McGuinty: Premier, it seems to me if you want to close hospitals, you can close them like that. If you want to deal with striking school teachers, you can deal with them instantly. If you want to shut down schools, you can do it just like that. This is one young man, 22 years of age, hooked up to a ventilator for life. You took advantage of a situation. This was a public forum. You stood up and said: "I can care for this young man. I'm going to help him. I'm going to fix it." It has been eight weeks. You have let the family down. You haven't spoken with them recently.

They will tell you that you have let him down. They are teetering on the edge of bankruptcy. They asked for your help and you said you were going to give it. Obviously you had no intention whatsoever to do that.

How can you claim to be compassionate? How can you claim to be listening? How can you claim to have the interests of Ian at heart if eight weeks have gone by? He's been shut down. He's been told he has no right of appeal for funding, he's been told that's the end of the story, he's been told they're on their own. How can you let that happen?

Hon Mr Harris: If there was one shred of truth in the allegations, I would agree with the member, but there is not.

GOVERNMENT ADVERTISING

Mr Howard Hampton (Rainy River): My question is for the Premier. It concerns another round of your government's advertising, this time full-page advertising paid for by taxpayers, in the Toronto Star, the Toronto Globe and Mail and the Toronto Sun. I suppose if we wait out the rest of the week, we'll find it in other places.

You're trying to tell people that the health care system is wonderful, that it's going to be a great thing, but just in the Toronto area we know you're closing, literally, over 10 hospitals. We know the budget cuts to hospitals just in the city of Toronto come to at least $300 million since you've become the government. The layoff of nurses is such that surgery is being delayed, treatment cannot be gained, emergency rooms can't be staffed and patients are being turned away.

How can your government justify spending the tens upon tens of thousands of dollars for this kind of nonsensical advertising when people out there know that the opposite is true, that more and more people are being turned away, that more and more people can't get the treatment they deserve? How can you justify this kind of stuff when your government is in fact doing the opposite?

Hon Michael D. Harris (Premier): I think the ad the member is referring to is one by the Health Services Restructuring Commission. As everyone knows, it's an arm's-length agency from the ministry and they decide their own priorities.

As you know, hospital restructuring is all about building, expanding and improving services for patients and, if there are any savings, reinvesting those dollars, and more that were wasted, in the system that you presided over.

The HSRC, if that's the ad you're referring to, obviously felt it was important to inform people about what their goals and objectives were and make sure people knew how to contact them for further information.

Mr Hampton: It's a very good script you're reading from, Premier, but you should ask someone to rewrite it.

We checked the language, the choice of words in these ads, with the propaganda that you've been turning out, your very partisan propaganda. Whoever is writing this is also writing your partisan propaganda. In fact, there is a 1-800 number they ask you to call, and when you call the number what you get is your Ministry of Health, Premier. As far as your arm's length, that is nonsense.

The point is this: You make a lot of boasts in these ads. My colleague the member for London Centre put forward a private member's bill today which will bring some accountability to the system, which will hold you accountable for the kinds of statements you are making in these ads.

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Question.

Mr Hampton: I want to ask you, Premier, are you prepared to support that kind of patients' rights accountability bill to ensure that they -

The Speaker: Thank you. Premier?

Hon Mr Harris: Let me deal specifically with the allegations of advertising because, as you know, we've cut the advertising budgets from when you were in office. I think all political parties and all governments have felt it important that the public know what's going on. I know you criticized us that we weren't communicating enough, we weren't consulting enough. One headline said, "Hey, Mikey, Talk To Us." They wanted to know more about what was going on.

We have done some advertising directly. If the language is the same as the Health Services Restructuring Commission, it's because we've taken our cue from them and we are supportive of the efforts that they are doing. But I would certainly ask you to contrast that with what the Toronto Star said about your $6.6-million advertising. I think they called it "Smile Ontario." This was, as I understand it, a 34-page glossy brochure -

The Speaker: Thank you. Final supplementary.

Mr Hampton: It's obvious that the Premier has given up on the arm's-length argument. He now acknowledges that this is just as partisan a political advertising as the nonsense you're churning out of your offices. It's exactly the same thing. In fact, the 1-800 number is a Ministry of Health number.

My question to the Premier was this: We introduced a private member's bill today, a patients' rights bill, a health care accountability bill, which would ensure that there is a commissioner created to oversee the health care system and to report on the health care system and to hold you accountable for cuts to hospitals, cuts to home care and cuts across the health care budget.

I want to know, Premier, if you're interested in ensuring that people receive the health care that they're due, will you support that patients' rights bill? Will you support that health care accountability bill to hold you accountable for the kinds of statements that you make in these ads?

Interjections.

The Speaker: Order. Look, we need some order here, minister and members from the opposition. We need some order.

Interjection.

The Speaker: Member for Ottawa Centre, come to order. Thank you.

Hon Mr Harris: With reference to the ads placed by the Health Services Restructuring Commission, of course they're arm's-length and non-partisan. If our ads look like theirs, it just confirms ours are non-partisan as well, which of course is what government advertising should be. It's for sharing information, it's for getting input, it's consulting and informing.

With regard to a specific bill, which I understand has been introduced today, we would be happy, when we get a chance, to review it and take a look at it, even though, if you were serious, you wouldn't have waited until the second-last day of the House to introduce it.

Interjections.

The Speaker: Member for Algoma, come to order, please.

Interjection.

The Speaker: Member for Beaches-Woodbine.

Interjection.

The Speaker: Member for Algoma, I'm warning you to come order. Beaches-Woodbine, Sudbury East, Sudbury and St Catharines, I'm not going to warn you again. You're out of order. If I have to warn you again, I'll have to name you. There needs to be some decorum in these proceedings.

New question, leader of the third party.

POVERTY

Mr Howard Hampton (Rainy River): Also a question to the Premier: You might want to know that when nurses and other health care advocates have raised the kinds of questions we raise in this bill with your minister and with your bureaucrats, they say they've just begun to think about them. You might take a lesson from some of the work we've done, and you might want to read it very carefully if you really are interested in health care accountability.

My second question is about people who are homeless. The city of Toronto homelessness task force is about ready to report, but they've already raised a very serious issue. It's about the increasing number of single mothers who are living with their children in poverty. More and more of these mothers and their children are in fact forced to use shelters for the homeless as a place to live. Food banks tell us that 70% of these women go hungry more than one day a month and their children also go hungry.

Premier, you are broadcasting and boasting about your $5.5-billion tax scheme, saying how good it is. How come you can't afford a little money to help these people who are being forced into poverty?

Hon Michael D. Harris (Premier): Let me first of all refer to the

preamble. You've talked about a bill introduced. I said I'd look at it. I haven't seen it yet. It's just been introduced today.

You made allegations that too bad the minister wasn't in the House. She made an announcement in April responding to the nurses' concerns, very positively received, I might add, by the RNAO, which was quite supportive. That was following a meeting that both the minister and I had with the nurses' association. They've been very complimentary of the immediate action. In April, the minister responded.

If your bill picks up some of those areas - I've heard from media reports there was no accountability or funding or the rest of it, and I think they were quite critical, none the less we'll still be happy to take a look at it. I may have more time in supplementaries to respond to the other question and anything else you raise.

Mr Hampton: It appears the Premier didn't want to answer the first question and now he doesn't want to answer the second question either.

Here's the problem: Under your government, while you brag about giving the wealthiest people in this province a $5.5-billion tax gift, while day after day you put out this kind of scandalous advertising, paid for at taxpayers' expense, the people who are out there looking at the homeless and poverty issues tell us your government is forcing more and more children to live in poverty, forcing more and more families to live in poverty.

I want to give you an example. This comes as a result of some of your rules. A young woman named Debbie Wasylenki - she happens to live in my riding - went out and tried to start up her own health food store to escape the impoverished situation she was living in. Your rules about workfare closed her down. Your rules about workfare shut down her operation and forced her back on to social assistance.

I want to ask you again: You can afford a $5.5-billion tax scheme that will benefit the wealthiest people in the province; why are you forcing people like Debbie Wasylenki into poverty?

Hon Mr Harris: Before I get into a litany of about 40 things we've done for children and for those on low incomes, which was one part of your question, I have to correct the record on the tax cut, which has been so successful in creating jobs and taking 270,000 people right off the welfare rolls.

First of all, let's get the facts straight. When the tax cut is fully implemented, the top 10% of taxpayers, that's the wealthy ones, will pay more than when we took office, than under the NDP. They'll pay 45% of their revenues instead of 42%. The top 1% will pay even more. The tax cut actually benefits the low-income earners and the working class and the middle class of this province. Those are the facts.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Order.

Mr Hampton: Premier, you left out something from that equation: The modest- and middle-income families you say are going to get more are paying $1,100 a year more now for their children's tuition fees or $700 a year more if they go to college, or they're paying prescription medicine co-payment fees, or they're paying a student activity fee at a high school, or they're paying higher property taxes. The question is about all of those children and the number of single mothers whom your government has no time for.

I want to ask you about Julianne Robar. Thanks to your workfare program, you took away from her $500 a month. She and her two children, as a result of your government, are now trying to survive on $210 a month. It works out to about $2.33 a day for her for food and $2.33 a day for each of her children for food. Premier, it's a $5.5-billion tax scheme to benefit your wealthy friends, but Julianne and her children are supposed to get by on $2.33 a day. How do you do that?

Hon Mr Harris: Contrary to the allegations that are made by the member, Ontario's welfare rates are, for children, among the highest in the country, about 16% higher than the average of the other nine provinces. Low-income earners, under one of the most generous, in fact I'm sure the most generous, student assistance program pay no tuition, nothing for books, no cost at all for their children's education. That is funded by the taxpayers. Then, if upon graduation they have difficulty repaying it, it will be covered under the Liberal millennium scholarship fund and other areas. So they pay none of that.

Of course, what is most significant gets to what you're talking about: the massive tax cuts at the low-income level, the 40% of low-income earners - 64% of all the real dollars go to those earning $25,000 to $75,000 a year, and the biggest cut is at the low end. What that means is, not only are our welfare programs more generous than in any other province, but the incentive to get out and work and keep money has led to 270,000 fewer people dependent upon welfare.

ONTARIO HYDRO

Mr Sean G. Conway (Renfrew North): My question is also to the Premier and it concerns the recent appointment of your good friend William Farlinger to the board of Newcourt Credit Group.

Bill Farlinger, your friend and appointee to the chairmanship of Ontario Hydro, where he's paid, according to the most recent government of Ontario documentation, $350,000 to provide leadership to the board of that multibillion-dollar corporation, has this week apparently accepted an appointment to the board of Newcourt Credit Group, which is a large investment banking company with growing interests in the electricity and power business.

My question is simply this: How is it that Mr Farlinger on the one hand can serve the interests of a very large utility like Ontario Hydro as it prepares for the competitive marketplace, and serve on the board of directors of an investment banking house which, according to its own literature, has an increasing interest in the power business?

Hon Michael D. Harris (Premier): When I think of the opposition launching a personal attack on a man of rare integrity, it really saddens me. Mr Farlinger is on a number of boards. Mr Farlinger in fact resigned from the Hongkong Bank of Canada to take this particular board position. He's on a number of other boards. That has been fully disclosed. Of course, this is nothing new, because you want the very best and brightest in business people.

For example, the NDP appointed Donald Fullerton, former chair and CEO of the CIBC, to be on the board, also on the board of Amoco Canada Petroleum; David Kerr, Brascan, Carena Developments; Arthur Sawchuk, Canadian Chemical Producers' Association, Avenor Inc and Manufacturers Life. So that's normal practice. We want people who are active, who are out there in the community. We make sure, and Mr Farlinger, a man of integrity makes sure -

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Thank you. Supplementary.

Mr Conway: Premier, this is all about conflict of interest and public morality. What we have here is the chairman of a major power utility that is about to be broken up. We have Mr Farlinger, on the one hand, being paid $350,000 to head Ontario Hydro at the very time it is about to be broken up in preparation for the competitive marketplace, and at the very time that he's heading Ontario Hydro with that prospect, he joins the board of an investment banking house that according to its own literature this past month is increasingly interested in getting into the electricity and power business.

How is that not a flaming conflict of interest? Do you not think so, and will you, if for no other reason than the protection of Ontarians' shareholder value in the multibillion-dollar corporation that is Ontario Hydro, direct Mr Farlinger not to accept that specific appointment to the board of that investment banking house?

Hon Mr Harris: Under your rules nobody would be eligible - if I look over the board of directors under the Liberals or the NDP - to serve on the board of Ontario Hydro. Clearly you want people who understand business and who are active and current. What is significant, though, is that we have asked Mr Farlinger, unlike when the Liberals were in office, to comply with all conflict rules. You guys didn't do that. We have done that. Mr Farlinger has done that. He will also have to comply with any potential conflicts, as will all the other members who are on the board. Too bad you didn't have those rules when you were in office.

Mr Howard Hampton (Rainy River): My question is also for the Premier. The Premier tried very hard to miss the point, so I'll restate it for him. Premier, it's Mr Farlinger who as chair of Ontario Hydro has said that the people who buy power from Hydro may be stuck with stranded debt as high as $30 billion as a result of your government's changes. If we proceed down this direction you're going in, if we have this competitive market, the ratepayers will have to pick that up.

We understand that part of Mr Farlinger's job is to look after Ontario Hydro for the people of Ontario and ensure the lowest cost. If Mr Farlinger is also working at Newcourt, which is financing new private competitors who will want to get as much of the market as possible but not have to take on any of the stranded debt, I want to know, who is Mr Farlinger working for, the private interests that don't want to handle any of that stranded debt or the ratepayers of Ontario who are going to get stuck with that debt?

Hon Mr Harris: It's very clear under the conflict-of-interest rules and under the guidelines, and much clearer now that we've come into office and clarified them, that Mr Farlinger's first priority will be to Ontario Hydro, to hydro consumers and to the taxpayers of the province of Ontario. Any conflict between that and any of the boards that he serves on - I might add it's the same for all the directors, a number who are still there that you appointed who also have potential conflicts. That's why we have conflict legislation. That's why we have the rules. That's why they have to be declared.

I can tell you I think all members of the Hydro board, including the ones you appointed who are in those potential conflict situations, are honourable people and no one in the province is more honourable than Bill Farlinger.

Mr Hampton: Again the Premier tries to confuse the issue. I'm not concerned about whether Mr Farlinger is honourable or not. I'm concerned about who here is protecting the public interest, who has their eye on the public interest.

We've already seen with your casino fiascos that the very people who advised you on setting up casinos then went over and worked for the other side, worked for the people who were going to benefit from those casinos. I don't see where the public interest has been protected there at all. I see a bunch of your friends getting rich as the result of a policy decision by your government.

I'm very worried here that the very person who is supposed to be protecting the public interest at Ontario Hydro is now over as one of the operating minds of private sector companies that want to get into competition and want to stick Ontario Hydro and the ratepayers of Ontario Hydro with $30 billion of stranded debt. The question is this: Who is looking after the public interest here? Mr Farlinger can't work both sides of the fence at the same time and your government can't either.

Hon Mr Harris: Here is a member of a government and a cabinet that took this province to the brink of bankruptcy. Who was looking after the interests of the taxpayers of the province? Who took tax rates so high that investment and jobs fled the province? Who has a five-year record of minus 10,000 jobs total in the province of Ontario? Who has the record of protecting the taxpayers' money with an $11.2-billion annual deficit? Who has the record of taking that total debt from $40 billion to about $95 billion in a record four-and-a-half-year period?

I'll tell you who's protecting the taxpayers. This new government, this new caucus, this cabinet, this Premier and this administration are fighting for and protecting the taxpayers of Ontario.

Interjections.

The Speaker: A point of order?

Hon Mr Harris: I think it's important. There was a phone number, I think, that was read out into the record and it was alleged that you could get the Ministry of Health at that number. You can't. That phone number answers -

The Speaker: Premier, come to order, please. You can't correct someone else's record.

VOLUNTEER CHILDREN'S SERVICES

Mr Jerry J. Ouellette (Oshawa): My question is to the Minister without Portfolio responsible for children. Recently you visited my riding of Oshawa and met with a large number of local organizations such as the Eastview Boys' and Girls' Club, the YWCA, the Rose of Durham, Kids on the Block, Boy Scouts and Girl Guides, just to name a few. I might add that I'm very thankful we have representatives who are so knowledgeable on the issues of children and how they affect our communities.

Minister, can you tell me how this meeting helped you in your role as minister responsible for children?

Interjections.

Hon Margaret Marland (Minister without Portfolio [children's issues]): I would hope the members of the opposition would appreciate the work that is done by volunteer organizations throughout this province.

During my meeting in Oshawa, which incidentally was one of over 90 groups that I met with in that four-month period, we did meet with the traditional organizations like the YWCA, the Boy Scouts, the Girl Guides and the Eastview Boys' and Girls' Club, but we also had the opportunity of hearing from representatives of newer organizations like the Rose of Durham, Kids on the Block and Simcoe Hall.

This was a very valuable opportunity to find out first hand from these front-line volunteers what policies and perspectives they have in terms of relating with children. This actually helped me in the responsibility that I have to advocate on behalf of children and be their voice at the cabinet table.

Mr Ouellette: I agree, Minister, that there are a great many volunteers who make up these organizations. I know very well that they appreciated the opportunity to meet with you.

One of the groups you met with was Kids on the Block. This group sends volunteers from the program to local schools with life-sized puppets -

Mr David Christopherson (Hamilton Centre): Like the Tory caucus.

Mr Ouellette: - designed to assist children to become aware of, understand, respect and cope with differences in each other. The puppets tackle subjects such as racism, cultural differences, physical and sexual abuse, diabetes, leukaemia, fire safety, divorce and street-proofing, and help the children to understand difficult situations should they arise for them. I think one of the outstanding aspects of this program was that organizations such as Kids on the Block are self-sufficient and not dependent on government funding.

Can you tell me if you've seen other, similar programs throughout Ontario, Minister?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Order. Minister?

Hon Mrs Marland: I'm sure the member for Hamilton Centre doesn't intend to put down a group like Kids on the Block. This is an excellent program that is running in this province totally without a single dollar of government money. They are helping children in the schools understand problems that children in those schools are facing on a daily basis.

Mr Christopherson: Queen Margaret: All rise.

Hon Mrs Marland: If the opposition don't understand what problems those children do face in school today in terms of the subject areas that the Kids on the Block address, then I feel sorry for them. I congratulate organizations like -

Mr Christopherson: You haven't done anything -

The Speaker: Member for Hamilton Centre, I'm not warning you again. Come to order or I'm going to name you.

Hon Mrs Marland: I congratulate organizations like Kids on the Block, because they are rendering a very important service to children in our schools today who face tremendous difficulties in terms of understanding those subject areas that have just been referred to. I encourage more communities to pull together to support their children in these excellent programs that are generated -

The Speaker: Thank you. New question, leader of the official opposition.

ICE STORM

Mr Dalton McGuinty (Leader of the Opposition): My question is for the Premier. I was led to understand that he would be here throughout the day, the only day of the week that he would be available for question period.

Hon Chris Hodgson (Chair of the Management Board of Cabinet, Minister of Northern Development and Mines): I would request that you just stand the question down. The Premier had to step out for one minute.

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Stand it down?

Third party, member for Algoma.

Mr Bud Wildman (Algoma): I have a question to the minister -

Interjection.

The Speaker: He's not going to stand it down. Leader of the official opposition.

Mr McGuinty: To the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing: The ice storm that hit eastern Ontario this past winter was the worst natural disaster in the history of this country. The Premier made a great show, did all the photo ops, did everything that was necessary to make himself physically present at the time, but he assured the people of eastern Ontario that he would be there when the time came to deliver a cheque.

There are now over 22,000 claims for compensation. It's 30 degrees outside; the ice is long gone. Farms have experienced severe losses; businesses have experienced losses; homeowners have suffered property damage. What they're looking for is money. Why is it that when this damage was sustained in January, we find ourselves nearly in the month of July and no money is flowing?

Hon Al Leach (Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing): I personally, in the days after the ice storm, delivered cheques to the municipalities so they could provide assistance to the individuals who needed it. Any individual who needed assistance during that ice storm received the funding they needed. Any emergency funding that was required was paid. Every municipality that was affected by the ice storm received funding.

The member is right: At the present time there are 22,000 applications for assistance to fix damage that requires long-term repair. That's tree planting - that's pretty tough to do in March; it can be done in July - and many things that require repairs where we were after the individuals involved to get their claims in as quickly as possible. We had a deadline of June 15. Thousands of those applications came in at the last minute and are being dealt with now as quickly as they possibly can.

The Speaker: Supplementary?

Mr Jean-Marc Lalonde (Prescott and Russell): On January 21, at a meeting in Smiths Falls attended by media and municipal reps, you made a statement that your government would not wait two or three months for compensation to the ice storm victims like the Manitoba government did during the last rain storm.

Five months later, nobody has received any compensation yet. The Cayer family of St-Albert, over $80,000 loss; the Kaisan family, over $75,000; the St François Senior Citizens' Home in Casselman, over $72,000; the Villa St Luc in Curran, over $12,000. Mrs Bernadette Larivé of Limoges, whose eight-year-old son is on a special diet, has lost everything that she had in supplies. Mrs Campbell in Lefaivre had to sell her home because she could not afford to fix her home.

Minister, will we have -

The Speaker: Thank you. Minister.

Hon Mr Leach: Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I must say that I am extremely disappointed in that member who asked the question because he was there, he was present when we went down to eastern Ontario to help the people who were affected by that ice storm. He personally came while we delivered cheques to his community, and he has the audacity to stand up there and say we haven't compensated anybody. You should be ashamed of yourself.

We reacted faster than any government in history in getting assistance to people who needed assistance during that ice storm. Thousands, tens of thousands of people were provided with emergency assistance when they needed it. Certainly there are claims that are yet to be settled on severe damage that is yet to be repaired, but any individual who needed help during that ice storm received that help from this government, and that particular member knows it.

EDUCATION FUNDING

Mr Bud Wildman (Algoma): I have a question to the Minister of Education and Training. Could the minister explain why he continues to blame the school boards across the province for the cuts to programs for students, for layoffs, and for the labour unrest facing the public education system as, under Bill 160, all collective agreements come due at the beginning of the fall term, when in fact it's the minister with his cutting formula, or so-called funding formula, which has forced the school boards into a position where they are unable to meet the needs of students in the province or their commitments to teachers and support staff?

Hon David Johnson (Minister of Education and Training): I am happy to rise and assure the member opposite, the critic for the NDP, that this government has introduced a funding formula, which will be implemented this fall, that will ensure more money goes into the classroom, more money goes towards programs, more money goes towards teachers, more money goes towards textbooks and computers for our kids, more money goes to all the programs within the classroom. The government has introduced that formula, which will be in effect. It's up to school boards to take those moneys and put them to the most appropriate use within their classrooms in their schools.

I might also say that the school boards, of course, have the responsibility as well to negotiate with the teachers' unions and they're in the process of doing that.

Mr Wildman: How can the minister continue to state that there is more money under the funding formula going into the classroom when thousands of teachers, special education assistants, custodians, clerical staff and support workers are being laid off, despite the fact that they provide essential services to students? What's he going to do to resolve the labour relations crisis that is afflicting our public education system now because of the inadequacy of the funding formula and the fact that the boards have absolutely no flexibility under Bill 160 in order to collectively bargain with their staff? What is the minister going to do to resolve the impending labour crisis we face in September?

Hon David Johnson: Number one, not contribute to the hysteria that may come from the third party.

We need to allow the school boards the opportunity to negotiate with the teachers' unions. This government has provided more money in the classroom, more money for teachers. Each and every school board across Ontario will have more classroom money, and within the classroom money, they have flexibility in terms of how they divvy up that money according to teachers or books or computers or that sort of thing.

I think we need to allow the school boards to go through this process, to go through the negotiating process, and have the confidence that with more money invested in our classrooms, if boards are able to sit down and put the students first, we will have a better quality of education. There is no reason on earth why school boards can't come to a suitable contract with the teachers and have the teachers in the classroom this fall.

FOREST FIREFIGHTING

Mr Bill Grimmett (Muskoka-Georgian Bay): My question is for the Minister of Natural Resources. I wonder if you could provide the House with a

summary of the forest fire situation in northern Ontario. As you know, in my riding of Muskoka-Georgian Bay there's a lot of valuable forest land, and on behalf of my constituents I'd like to know what the forest fire situation is throughout the province and particularly in northern Ontario.

Hon John Snobelen (Minister of Natural Resources): I want to thank the member for Muskoka-Georgian Bay for the question today. As I've previously reported to this House, obviously the weather conditions this year - the early spring, the dry conditions in much of the forests in Ontario - have caused us to have an extremely early deployment of the people and the resources that are dedicated to protecting Ontario's natural resources.

At this date there are 41 active fires burning in the province, and I'm happy to report that good suppression progress has been made on the project fires that concern us so much. We are expecting a little more rain and some thunderstorm activity in those areas of the province over the next 48 hours, and hopefully this will diminish the concern we might have about those 41 active fires.

So far this season there have been 853 fires in the province, virtually all of which were acted on in some way by the ministry, including using the new 415 water bombers that we purchased this year to help us protect those very valuable assets and also human life, particularly in the north.

Mr Grimmett: You mentioned the new water bombers, Minister. I wonder if you could provide us with a report on how the ministry has raised its ability to fight these fires, particularly in the area of manpower, and also in regard to the new water bombers.

Hon Mr Snobelen: I know the water bombers have received a lot of attention, particularly in northern Ontario. We have spent about $200 million to acquire the most modern equipment available, new CL-415 water bombers, to help us suppress fires in the province, but I'm sure the member would agree with me that the most important asset in responding to fires is the courageous and dedicated people who put those fires out on the ground: our firefighters, our fire rangers in Ontario.

This year we have 676 fire rangers, some of the most trained people in the world, to respond to those fire situations, an increase of 100 people over previous years - more than we had in 1993, more than we had in 1994 and more than we had in 1995. We have the best firefighters and more of them, and I know, like others in this chamber, I'm very proud of what they do.

This has been noted, I think, in the press, particularly in northern Ontario. I'd like to inform the member of a quote from the Northern Daily News, an editorial this year, that said, "With 100 firefighters added to the normal complement and extra air transport available to move personnel and equipment, the MNR is doing everything possible to be ready." I agree with that.

APPRENTICESHIP TRAINING

Mr David Caplan (Oriole): My question is for the Minister of Education and Training. On January 19 you announced an overhaul of our apprenticeship system. It's now six months later and we have no new legislation; we have no announcement on tuition policy; we have no announcement on student assistance. That's not a surprise to the hundreds of thousands of college and university students who are waiting for this government to fulfil its promises on tuition and student assistance.

Minister, you will know that Dalton McGuinty and the Liberal caucus extensively consulted with young people across this province. They told us that they want access and opportunities in the trades. Your own consultation survey shows that fewer people will go into the apprenticeships if tuitions are charged. Will you commit today to this House that at a minimum you will reverse your position and commit that you will not be charging apprentices tuition fees?

Hon David Johnson (Minister of Education and Training): I'm not charging any tuition fees. I hope that by this time the member opposite knows that the Minister of Education and the Ministry of Education do not charge tuition fees. It's up to the colleges and universities what tuition fees they charge within a structure.

This whole area has been made more difficult by the reductions in support from the federal government - I think it is some $2.7 billion now - over a period of time. This is a general reduction in terms of support for education and health. Even in that light, this government has instituted the opportunity trust fund, over $600 million now, to help our post-secondary students. We have required that if any post-secondary institution does put up its tuitions, it must set aside 30% of that to assist the students who are in need.

We have announced the Canada-Ontario millennium fund, some $9 billion to assist our post-secondary institutions. Never has any government come forward with the kind of support that we have for our post-secondary students.

Hon Norman W. Sterling (Minister of the Environment, Government House Leader): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: Could I ask for unanimous consent to revert to motions?

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Is there unanimous consent to revert to motions? Agreed.

MOTIONS

COMMITTEE SITTINGS

Hon Norman W. Sterling (Minister of the Environment, Government House Leader): I move that the standing committee on regulations and private bills be authorized to meet on Thursday, June 25, 1998, from 10 am to 12 pm for the purpose of considering Bill Pr19,

An Act respecting the Municipality of Chatham-Kent.

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

PETITIONS

CHARITABLE GAMING

Mr James J. Bradley (St Catharines): I have a petition that reads as follows:

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"We, the residents of Gloucester and the surrounding area, wish to express our firm opposition to the establishment of a gambling casino in this residential community, in close proximity to two local high schools. We wish to communicate to the Legislature the widespread opposition which this has generated in the community.

"We also wish to communicate our disappointment in the total lack of democratic consultation on the part of our local city council. Decisions were made and voted on prior to any meaningful public input. We are also hereby expressing our concern for those families who will be hurt through gambling addiction, with the resulting problems of suicide, divorce, family violence and impoverishment.

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to oppose the establishment of a charity casino in Gloucester, Ontario."

There are hundreds of names on this petition. I affix my name as I'm in agreement with its contents.

YOUNG OFFENDERS

Mrs Marion Boyd (London Centre): I have a petition signed by about 1,200 people from the London area. It reads as follows:

"To the Honourable Lieutenant Governor and the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"We, the undersigned citizens of Ontario, beg leave to petition the Parliament of Ontario as follows:

"Whereas the Minister of Community and Social Services, the Honourable Janet Ecker, has announced that she will sell the services and programs at Ontario's secure custody facilities for high-risk young offenders to the private sector; and

"Whereas this decision will move these important services away from the government's responsibility to ensure the safety and security of the public, the young people in their charge and the workers who supervise and provide treatment to young offenders; and

"Whereas we believe strongly that elected officials should be directly accountable and responsible for all children and adults who are in custody as ordered by the courts of Ontario and that no private company should profit from crime;

"We urge the minister to keep our secure and treatment facilities for young offenders professional and public."

I agree with this and am proud to sign this petition.

ABORTION

Mr Bill Murdoch (Grey-Owen Sound): I have a petition from the Hanover Knights of Columbus and Harriet McCracken from the CWL. It's a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario.

"Whereas Ontario taxpayers funded over 45,000 abortions in 1993 at an estimated cost of $25 million; and

"Whereas pregnancy is not a disease, injury, or illness, and abortions are not therapeutic procedures; and

"Whereas the vast majority of abortions are done for reasons of convenience or finance; and

"Whereas the province has the exclusive authority to determine what services will be insured; and

"Whereas the Canada Health Act does not require funding for elective procedures; and

"Whereas there is mounting evidence that abortion is in fact hazardous to women's health;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to cease from providing any taxpayers' dollars for the performance of abortions."

MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES

Mr Michael Gravelle (Port Arthur): People in northwestern Ontario - Thunder Bay - are very concerned about the mental health care crisis in Thunder Bay and northwestern Ontario. I have a petition that continues to come in; hundreds of names are coming in.

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas proper mental health care is essential to all Ontarians; and

"Whereas mental health care is severely underfunded in northwestern Ontario; and

"Whereas the Health Services Restructuring Commission has called for the closure of the Lakehead Psychiatric Hospital with no replacement services in its place; and

"Whereas appropriate community mental health treatment is so lacking in northwestern Ontario that those who need treatment, support and rehabilitation are incarcerated in district jails; and

"Whereas the Ministry of Health has not delivered on its commitment to set up the Northwestern Ontario Mental Health Agency over one year after it promised to do so; and

"Whereas there is a dramatic shortage of psychiatrists in northwestern Ontario, to the point where the doctors are severely overworked; and

"Whereas the Ministry of Health promised a 12-bed adolescent treatment centre and has failed to deliver on that promise;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to commit those funds necessary to provide full and proper mental health care to those in need in northwestern Ontario and call on the Minister of Health to cancel the closure of the Lakehead Psychiatric Hospital."

It's signed by hundreds of constituents who are very concerned. I'm happy to sign it.

PROTECTION FOR HEALTH CARE WORKERS

Mr John R. Baird (Nepean): "Whereas nurses in Ontario often experience coercion to participate in practices which directly contravene their deeply held ethical standards; and

"Whereas pharmacists in Ontario are often pressured to dispense and/or sell chemicals and/or devices contrary to their moral or religious beliefs; and

"Whereas public health workers in Ontario are expected to assist in providing controversial services and promoting controversial materials against their consciences; and

"Whereas physicians in Ontario often experience pressure to give referrals for medications, treatments and/or procedures which they believe to be gravely immoral; and

"Whereas competent health care workers and students in various health care disciplines in Ontario have been denied training, employment, continued employment and advancement in their intended fields and suffered other forms of unjust discrimination because of the dictates of their consciences; and

"Whereas the health care workers experiencing such unjust discrimination have at present no practical and accessible legal means to protect themselves;

"We, the undersigned, urge the government of Ontario to enact legislation explicitly recognizing the freedom of conscience of health care workers, prohibiting coercion of and unjust discrimination against health care workers because of their refusal to participate in matters contrary to the dictates of their consciences and establishing penalties for such coercion and unjust discrimination."

NURSES' BILL OF RIGHTS

Mr Michael Gravelle (Port Arthur): I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario.

"Whereas nursing is key to quality health care; and

"Whereas nurses want the right to provide high-quality care; and

"Whereas nurses want the right to be heard and consulted on health care issues; and

"Whereas nurses want the right to be recognized and treated as equals in the health care system; and

"Whereas nurses want the right to have meaningful participation in all aspects of health care reform; and

"Whereas nurses want the right to be advocates for their communities and the people they care for without fear of reprisal; and

"Whereas nurses want the right to work in settings that are free from harassment and discrimination and that nurture learning, diversity, personal growth, job satisfaction and mutual support; and

"Whereas nurses want the right work in conditions that promote and foster professionalism and teamwork; and

"Whereas nurses want the right to deliver care in an integrated, publicly funded, not-for-profit health care system that is grounded in the principles of the Canada Health Act;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to honour, promote and respect the nurses' bill of rights as outlined above and to ensure that these rights are enshrined in all aspects of health care."

I'm pleased to sign my name to that petition.

PROTECTION FOR HEALTH CARE WORKERS

Mr David Christopherson (Hamilton Centre): I have petitions forwarded to me by Margaret Purcell and Mike Izzotti from the Coalition for Conscience. The petition reads as follows:

"Whereas nurses in Ontario often experience coercion to participate in practices which directly contravene their deeply held ethical standards; and

"Whereas pharmacists in Ontario are often pressured to dispense and/or sell chemicals and/or devices contrary to their moral or religious beliefs; and

"Whereas public health workers in Ontario are expected to assist in providing controversial services and promoting controversial materials against their consciences; and

"Whereas physicians in Ontario often experience pressure to give referrals for medications, treatments and/or procedures which they believe to be gravely immoral; and

"Whereas competent health care workers and students in various health care disciplines in Ontario have been denied training, employment, continued employment and advancement in their intended fields and suffered other forms of unjust discrimination because of the dictates of their consciences; and

"Whereas the health care workers experiencing such unjust discrimination have at present no practical and accessible legal means to protect themselves;

"We, the undersigned, urge the government of Ontario to enact legislation explicitly recognizing the freedom of conscience of health care workers, prohibiting coercion of and unjust discrimination against health care workers because of their refusal to participate in matters contrary to the dictates of their consciences and establishing penalties for such coercion and unjust discrimination."

ABORTION

Mr Bob Wood (London South): I have a petition signed by 216 people.

"Whereas the Ontario health system is overburdened and unnecessary spending must be cut; and

"Whereas pregnancy is not a disease, injury or illness and abortions are not therapeutic procedures; and

"Whereas the vast majority of abortions are done for reasons of convenience or finance; and

"Whereas the province has exclusive authority to determine what services will be insured; and

"Whereas the Canada Health Act does not require funding for elective procedures; and

"Whereas there is mounting evidence that abortion is in fact hazardous to women's health; and

"Whereas Ontario taxpayers funded over 45,000 abortions in 1993 at an estimated cost of $25 million;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to cease from providing any taxpayers' dollars for the performance of abortions."

LINHAVEN HOME FOR THE AGED

Mr James J. Bradley (St Catharines): The petition is to the government of Ontario.

"Whereas Linhaven Home for the Aged has provided excellent service to seniors in St Catharines for many years;

"Whereas the staff and volunteers at Linhaven have endeavoured to enhance the quality of life of residents of the home through their kind and compassionate care;

"Whereas cuts in funding to Linhaven will result in a reduction of staff and resources available to meet the needs of seniors who reside in the home;

"Whereas the discharging of acute care patients from active treatment hospitals results in medical staff at homes for the aged being required to provide more extensive and intensive care to patients who are discharged from hospitals;

"Whereas Linhaven and other homes for the aged have among the residents more individuals afflicted with Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease and other medical conditions which require an appropriate complement of staff and necessary equipment to meet their medical needs;

"Be it resolved that the government of Ontario increase funding to Linhaven Home for the Aged in St Catharines so that the medical requirements of Linhaven residents may be properly addressed and seniors may live in dignity in our community."

I affix my signature as I'm in full agreement with this petition.

FIREARMS CONTROL

Mr Harry Danford (Hastings-Peterborough): To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas" - there are a number of conditions in this petition.

I present it on behalf of my constituency and apply my signature as well.

CHARITABLE GAMING

Mr James J. Bradley (St Catharines): I have a petition from people opposed to casinos. It reads as follows:

"Whereas the Mike Harris government is trying to impose so-called charity casinos on 44 communities across Ontario as a vehicle to make profits from gambling for government coffers; and

"Whereas these gambling halls will bleed from the communities on which they are imposed the discretionary dollars which might otherwise be spent on goods and services; and

"Whereas the Harris government is attempting to bribe cash-strapped municipalities to accept the new gambling halls by promising to pay so-called administration fees to operate slot machines in the casinos; and

"Whereas the Harris government is attempting to coerce municipalities into accepting the new 24-hour-a-day, seven-days-a-week gambling halls by suggesting that charities may not receive funding;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, call upon the Mike Harris government to halt the imposition of new gambling halls, so-called charity casinos, on communities across Ontario."

I affix my signature as I'm in full agreement with this petition.

OCCUPATIONAL HEALTH AND SAFETY

Mr David Christopherson (Hamilton Centre): I have a petition forwarded to me by Wayne Samuelson, president of the Ontario Federation of Labour, on behalf of the 600,000 members of the OFL.

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas each year in Ontario approximately 300 workers are killed on the job, several thousand die of occupational diseases and 400,000 suffer work-related injuries and illnesses; and

"Whereas during the past decade the Workers' Health and Safety Centre proved to be the most cost-effective WCB-funded prevention organization dedicated to worker health and safety concerns; and

"Whereas the WCB provides over 80% of its legislated prevention funding to several employer-controlled safety associations and less than 20% to the Workers' Health and Safety Centre; and

"Whereas the Workers' Health and Safety Centre recently lost several million dollars in funding and course revenue due to government changes to legislated training requirements; and

"Whereas 30% of Workers' Health and Safety Centre staff were laid off due to these lost training funds; and

"Whereas the Workers' Health and Safety Centre now faces an additional 25% cut to its 1998 budget, which will be used to augment new funding for employer safety associations in the health, education and services sector; and

"Whereas the WCB's 1998 planned baseline budget cuts for safety associations and the Workers' Health and Safety Centre will be disproportionately against the workers' centre and reduce its 1998 budget allocation to less than 15% of the WCB prevention funding;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to stop the WCB's proposed cuts and direct the WCB to increase the Workers' Health and Safety Centre's funding to at least 50% of the WCB's legislated prevention funding; and

"Further we, the undersigned, call upon the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to direct the WCB to significantly increase its legislated prevention funding in order to eliminate workplace illness, injury and death."

I can tell you that the workers' centre has been advised that cuts are taking place.

CHIROPRACTIC HEALTH CARE

Mr Toby Barrett (Norfolk): I submit petitions in support of chiropractic services signed by people from Jarvis, Hagersville, Fisherville and points east. In the interest of time, I'll just read the concluding

summary:

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to recognize the contribution made by chiropractors to the good health of the people of Ontario, to recognize the taxpayer dollars saved by the use of low-cost preventive care such as that provided by chiropractors and to recognize that to restrict funding for chiropractic health care only serves to limit access to a needed health care service."

I sign this petition.

NURSES' BILL OF RIGHTS

Mr Frank Miclash (Kenora): I have a petition that reads:

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas nursing is key to quality health care; and

"Whereas nurses want the right to provide high-quality care; and

"Whereas nurses want the right to be heard and consulted on health care issues; and

"Whereas nurses want the right to be recognized and treated as equals in the health care system; and

"Whereas nurses want the right to have meaningful participation in all aspects of health care reform; and

"Whereas nurses want the right to be advocates for their communities and the people they care for without fear of reprisal; and

"Whereas nurses want the right to work in settings that are free from harassment and discrimination and that nurture learning, diversity, personal growth, job satisfaction and mutual support; and

"Whereas nurses want the right work in conditions that promote and foster professionalism and teamwork; and

"Whereas nurses want the right to deliver care in an integrated, publicly funded, not-for-profit health care system that is grounded in the principles of the Canada Health Act;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to honour, promote and respect the nurses' bill of rights as outlined above and to ensure that these rights are enshrined in all aspects of health care."

I've signed my name to that petition as well.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

TIME ALLOCATION

Hon Norman W. Sterling (Minister of the Environment, Government House Leader): I move that, pursuant to standing order 46 and notwithstanding any other standing order or special order of the House relating to Bill 35,

An Act to create jobs and protect consumers by promoting low-cost energy through competition, to protect the environment, to provide for pensions and to make related amendments to certain Acts, when Bill 35 is next called as a government order, the Speaker shall put every question necessary to dispose of the second reading stage of the bill, without further debate or amendment; and at such time, the bill shall be referred to the standing committee on resources development;

That the standing committee on resources development shall be authorized to meet for eight days during the summer recess for the purpose of conducting public hearings;

That, pursuant to standing order 74(d), the Chair of the standing committee on resources development shall establish the deadline for the tabling of amendments or for filing them with the clerk of the committee;

That the committee shall be authorized to meet for four days at its regularly scheduled meeting times for the purpose of clause-by-clause consideration of the bill beginning at its first regularly scheduled meeting time following the said recess;

That the committee be authorized to meet for a fifth day of clause-by-clause consideration from 9 am to 12 pm and following routine proceedings until completion of clause-by-clause consideration.

At 4:30 pm on the fifth day of clause-by-clause consideration, those amendments which have not yet been moved shall be deemed to have been moved, and the Chair of the committee shall interrupt the proceedings and shall, without further debate or amendment, put every question necessary to dispose of all remaining sections of the bill and any amendments thereto;

That any divisions required shall be deferred until all remaining questions have been put and taken in succession with one 20-minute waiting period allowed pursuant to standing order 127(a);

That the committee shall report the bill to the House not later than the first sessional day that reports from committees may be received following completion of clause-by-clause consideration. In the event that the committee fails to report the bill on the date provided, the bill shall be deemed to have been passed by the committee and shall be deemed to be reported to and received by the House;

That upon receiving the report of the standing committee on resources development, the Speaker shall put the question for adoption of the report forthwith and at such time the bill shall be ordered for third reading;

That one sessional day shall be allotted to the third reading stage of the bill. At 5:55 pm or 9:25 pm, as the case may be, on such day, the Speaker shall interrupt the proceedings and shall put every question necessary to dispose of this stage of the bill without further debate or amendment;

That the vote on third reading of the bill may, at the request of any chief whip of a recognized party in the House, be deferred until the next sessional day during the routine proceeding "deferred votes"; and

That, in the case of any division relating to any proceeding on the bill, the division bells shall be limited to five minutes.

Mr Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the member for Huron and the member for Peterborough, but prior to turning over that time to those members, I would like to indicate that it's unfortunate that time allocation was necessary with regard to this bill, because I believe that in general the parties in the House are somewhat supportive of this legislation, recognizing that the restructuring of the electricity sector is a necessary matter.

I think it should be known that we offered to pass this on second reading, to have whatever committee - we were quite willing to negotiate committee hearings and were quite flexible on whatever those hearings might be etc. It is unfortunate that the government is once again pushed to this particular time closure motion, but this cuts two ways. Unfortunately, what it will do is create a precedent, as it has in the federal House, for being the norm with regard to legislation that's carried through.

Mr Wayne Lessard (Windsor-Riverside): No pun intended.

Hon Mr Sterling: No pun intended.

I just say that I hope in the future there will be some possibility of negotiating fairly substantial bills where there isn't a lot of dispute over the principle of it, but I can understand that being the case. However, that's where we are.

With that, I'd like to say one other thing with regard to the environmental parts of this bill. I have not had the opportunity to talk about the environmental sections in this bill.

Ms Shelley Martel (Sudbury East): There aren't any.

Mr James J. Bradley (St Catharines): We will give you the 30 seconds to do that.

The Acting Speaker (Mr Gilles E. Morin): Order.

Hon Mr Sterling: If one looks at this bill with regard to the environmental conditions required to sell electricity in Ontario, one will find that the Ontario Energy Board will be requiring of any generator that it live to certain standards. That kind of precondition is not contained in any other legislation that I'm aware of North America, save one, and that is in the state of Massachusetts, where, before you get the opportunity to sell in, you must meet some environmental criteria.

How those environmental criteria will be set will be very interesting, but it was important for the generators in our province to have that

section in, not only for their concern over the environment with regard to what a foreign generator might do in terms of creating air quality problems which will eventually drift over on to us, but also to create a level playing field with regard to generators both inside the borders of Ontario and outside the borders of Ontario.

Another very interesting part of the legislation with regard to environmental requirements is the whole notion of disclosure. We will see, as competition enters into this field, that there will be many different companies offering electricity and ancillary services. What we require in this legislation is that there be a disclosure of the environmental record of that particular company to the customer so that the customer can understand what the environmental record of that company is.

We are also introducing the notion of sector emission caps. This is very important in setting up the framework for emission trading to take place. A lot of people have talked about emission trading. That is very important in te