British Columbia Hansard — Monday, March 10, 2008 (38th Parliament, 4th Session) (H0310pm-04) (H0310pm 04)

H0310pm-04

British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

Fourth Session, 38th Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY (HANSARD) Monday, March 10, 2008 Afternoon Sitting Volume 28, Number 4 THE HONOURABLE BILL BARISOFF, SPEAKER ISSN 0709-1281

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR His Honour the Honourable Steven L. Point, OBC FOURTH SESSION, 38TH PARLIAMENT SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Bill Barisoff EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council ............................................................................................................Hon. Gordon Campbell Minister of State for Intergovernmental Relations .......................................................................................................... Hon.

John van Dongen Deputy Premier and Minister of Education and Minister Responsible for Early Learning and Literacy...................... Hon. Shirley Bond Minister of Aboriginal Relations and Reconciliation ........................................................................................................ Hon. Michael de Jong Minister of Advanced Education and Minister Responsible for Research and Technology ........................................... Hon.

Murray Coell Minister of Agriculture and Lands.......................................................................................................................................................Hon. Pat Bell Attorney General and Minister Responsible for Multiculturalism............................................................................... Hon. Wally Oppal, QC Minister of Children and Family Development ................................................................................................................Hon.

Tom Christensen Minister of State for Childcare ........................................................................................................................................................Hon. Linda Reid Minister of Community Services and Minister Responsible for Seniors’ and Women’s Issues........................................... Hon. Ida Chong Minister of Economic Development and Minister Responsible for the Asia-Pacific Initiative and the Olympics.................Hon.

Colin Hansen Minister of Employment and Income Assistance ...........................................................................................................Hon. Claude Richmond Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources .......................................................................................................Hon. Richard Neufeld Minister of State for Mining......................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Kevin Krueger Minister of Environment and Minister Responsible for Water Stewardship and Sustainable Communities ...............Hon. Barry Penner Minister of Finance.......................................................................................................................................................................Hon. Carole Taylor Minister of Forests and Range and Minister Responsible for Housing ............................................................................. Hon.

Rich Coleman Minister of Health ......................................................................................................................................................................Hon. George Abbott Minister of Labour and Citizens’ Services ......................................................................................................................................Hon. Olga Ilich Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General................................................................................................................................Hon.

John Les Minister of Small Business and Revenue and Minister Responsible for Regulatory Reform............................................ Hon. Rick Thorpe Minister of Tourism, Sport and the Arts ......................................................................................................................................Hon. Stan Hagen Minister of State for ActNow B.C. ............................................................................................................................................ Hon.

Gordon Hogg Minister of Transportation...........................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Kevin Falcon LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Leader of the Official Opposition .........................................................................................................................................................Carole James Deputy Speaker ....................................................................................................................................................................................Sindi Hawkins Deputy Speaker ...........................................................................................................................................................................

Katherine Whittred Assistant Deputy Speaker.....................................................................................................................................................................Sue Hammell Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole................................................................................................................................................. Harry Bloy Clerk of the Legislative Assembly .........................................................................................................................E.

George MacMinn, OBC, QC Clerk Assistant.........................................................................................................................................................................................Robert Vaive Clerk Assistant and Law Clerk .......................................................................................................................................................Ian D. Izard, QC Clerk Assistant and Clerk of Committees ....................................................................................................................................... Craig H.

James Clerk Assistant and Committee Clerk ..........................................................................................................................................Kate Ryan-Lloyd Sergeant-at-Arms............................................................................................................................................................................. A.A.

Humphreys Director, Hansard Services ...................................................................................................................................................................Jo-Anne Kern Legislative Librarian ..................................................................................................................................................................................Jane Taylor Legislative Comptroller...............................................................................................................................................................................Dan Arbic

Party Standings: Liberal 46; New Democratic 33 ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Abbott, Hon. George (L) .................................................................... Shuswap Austin, Robin (NDP)............................................................................. Skeena Bains, Harry (NDP).................................................................. Surrey-Newton Barisoff, Hon. Bill (L)..........................................Penticton–Okanagan Valley Bell, Hon.

Pat (L) .............................................................Prince George North Bennett, Bill (L) ........................................................................ East Kootenay Black, Iain (L) ............................................................ Port Moody–Westwood Bloy, Harry (L)................................................................................Burquitlam Bond, Hon. Shirley (L).....................................Prince George–Mount Robson Brar, Jagrup (NDP).....................................................Surrey–Panorama Ridge Campbell, Hon.

Gordon (L) .........................................Vancouver–Point Grey Cantelon, Ron (L)..............................................................Nanaimo-Parksville Chong, Hon. Ida (L) .................................................... Oak Bay–Gordon Head Chouhan, Raj (NDP) ...........................................................Burnaby-Edmonds Christensen, Hon. Tom (L) ................................................. Okanagan-Vernon Chudnovsky, David (NDP) ......................................... Vancouver-Kensington Coell, Hon.

Murray (L) .....................................Saanich North and the Islands Coleman, Hon. Rich (L)...........................................Fort Langley–Aldergrove Conroy, Katrine (NDP) .......................................... West Kootenay–Boundary Coons, Gary (NDP) ....................................................................... North Coast Cubberley, David (NDP)............................................................Saanich South de Jong, Hon.

Michael (L) ...................................Abbotsford–Mount Lehman Dix, Adrian (NDP) .........................................................Vancouver-Kingsway Evans, Corky (NDP).................................................................Nelson-Creston Falcon, Hon. Kevin (L) .......................................................

Surrey-Cloverdale Farnworth, Mike (NDP) ...............................Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Fleming, Rob (NDP) ..............................................................Victoria-Hillside Fraser, Scott (NDP) ..............................................................Alberni-Qualicum Gentner, Guy (NDP).......................................................................Delta North Hagen, Hon. Stan (L) ................................................................ Comox Valley Hammell, Sue (NDP) ................................................... Surrey–Green Timbers Hansen, Hon.

Colin (L) ..................................................Vancouver-Quilchena Hawes, Randy (L).......................................................... Maple Ridge–Mission Hawkins, Sindi (L) ............................................................... Kelowna-Mission Hayer, Dave S. (L) ................................................................ Surrey-Tynehead Hogg, Hon.

Gordon (L).....................................................Surrey–White Rock Horgan, John (NDP)......................................................Malahat–Juan de Fuca Horning, Al (L)........................................................... Kelowna–Lake Country Ilich, Hon. Olga (L)...............................................................Richmond Centre James, Carole (NDP).......................................................Victoria–Beacon Hill Jarvis, Daniel (L)..................................................

North Vancouver–Seymour Karagianis, Maurine (NDP) ........................................... Esquimalt-Metchosin Krog, Leonard (NDP)......................................................................... Nanaimo Krueger, Hon. Kevin (L) .....................................Kamloops–North Thompson Kwan, Jenny Wai Ching (NDP)........................... Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Lali, Harry (NDP)........................................................................

Yale-Lillooet Lee, Richard T. (L)....................................................................Burnaby North Lekstrom, Blair (L).............................................................. Peace River South Les, Hon. John (L)............................................................... Chilliwack-Sumas Macdonald, Norm (NDP).................................... Columbia River–Revelstoke MacKay, Dennis (L)....................................................

Bulkley Valley–Stikine Mayencourt, Lorne (L).......................................................Vancouver-Burrard McIntyre, Joan (L).................................................West Vancouver–Garibaldi Neufeld, Hon. Richard (L) .................................................. Peace River North Nuraney, John (L).............................................................Burnaby-Willingdon Oppal, Hon. Wally, QC (L).......................................... Vancouver-Fraserview Penner, Hon. Barry (L)...........................................................

Chilliwack-Kent Polak, Mary (L) ....................................................................................Langley Puchmayr, Chuck (NDP)...................................................... New Westminster Ralston, Bruce (NDP) ............................................................. Surrey-Whalley Reid, Hon. Linda (L) ................................................................ Richmond East Richmond, Hon. Claude (L).............................................................

Kamloops Robertson, Gregor (NDP) ................................................Vancouver-Fairview Roddick, Valerie (L).......................................................................Delta South Routley, Doug (NDP)..................................................... Cowichan-Ladysmith Rustad, John (L) ........................................................

Prince George–Omineca Sather, Michael (NDP).........................................Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Simons, Nicholas (NDP) ...................................Powell River–Sunshine Coast Simpson, Bob (NDP)..................................................................Cariboo North Simpson, Shane (NDP) ....................................................Vancouver-Hastings Sultan, Ralph (L) ....................................................West Vancouver–Capilano Taylor, Hon.

Carole (L).....................................................Vancouver-Langara Thorne, Diane (NDP) .................................................Coquitlam-Maillardville Thorpe, Hon. Rick (L).......................................................Okanagan-Westside Trevena, Claire (NDP) ..................................................................North Island van Dongen, Hon. John (L)............................................ Abbotsford-Clayburn Whittred, Katherine (L)........................................

North Vancouver–Lonsdale Wyse, Charlie (NDP) .................................................................Cariboo South Yap, John (L)...................................................................Richmond-Steveston LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Clayburn....................................................Hon. John van Dongen Abbotsford–Mount Lehman .......................................... Hon. Michael de Jong Alberni-Qualicum..........................................................................

Scott Fraser Bulkley Valley–Stikine ...........................................................Dennis MacKay Burnaby North ...........................................................................Richard T. Lee Burnaby-Edmonds........................................................................Raj Chouhan Burnaby-Willingdon................................................................... John Nuraney Burquitlam.......................................................................................Harry Bloy Cariboo North..............................................................................

Bob Simpson Cariboo South..............................................................................Charlie Wyse Chilliwack-Kent ..................................................................Hon. Barry Penner Chilliwack-Sumas...................................................................... Hon. John Les Columbia River–Revelstoke................................................. Norm Macdonald Comox Valley........................................................................ Hon.

Stan Hagen Coquitlam-Maillardville..............................................................Diane Thorne Cowichan-Ladysmith ................................................................. Doug Routley Delta North ...................................................................................Guy Gentner Delta South ............................................................................. Valerie Roddick East Kootenay................................................................................

Bill Bennett Esquimalt-Metchosin.........................................................Maurine Karagianis Fort Langley–Aldergrove ..................................................Hon. Rich Coleman Kamloops.....................................................................Hon. Claude Richmond Kamloops–North Thompson ............................................Hon. Kevin Krueger Kelowna–Lake Country.................................................................. Al Horning Kelowna-Mission ......................................................................

Sindi Hawkins Langley ...........................................................................................Mary Polak Malahat–Juan de Fuca .................................................................. John Horgan Maple Ridge–Mission ................................................................ Randy Hawes Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows ..................................................... Michael Sather Nanaimo......................................................................................

Leonard Krog Nanaimo-Parksville .....................................................................Ron Cantelon Nelson-Creston .............................................................................Corky Evans New Westminster .................................................................. Chuck Puchmayr North Coast....................................................................................

Gary Coons North Island ...............................................................................Claire Trevena North Vancouver–Lonsdale................................................Katherine Whittred North Vancouver–Seymour..........................................................Daniel Jarvis Oak Bay–Gordon Head ........................................................... Hon. Ida Chong Okanagan-Vernon......................................................... Hon. Tom Christensen Okanagan-Westside..............................................................Hon.

Rick Thorpe Peace River North.......................................................... Hon. Richard Neufeld Peace River South..................................................................... Blair Lekstrom Penticton–Okanagan Valley .................................................Hon. Bill Barisoff Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain ............................................Mike Farnworth Port Moody–Westwood.................................................................... Iain Black Powell River–Sunshine Coast ...............................................

Nicholas Simons Prince George North.................................................................... Hon. Pat Bell Prince George–Mount Robson ............................................Hon. Shirley Bond Prince George–Omineca................................................................ John Rustad Richmond Centre......................................................................Hon. Olga Ilich Richmond East........................................................................Hon.

Linda Reid Richmond-Steveston...........................................................................John Yap Saanich North and the Islands ............................................ Hon. Murray Coell Saanich South ........................................................................ David Cubberley Shuswap............................................................................Hon. George Abbott Skeena.......................................................................................... Robin Austin Surrey-Cloverdale............................................................... Hon.

Kevin Falcon Surrey–Green Timbers ................................................................Sue Hammell Surrey-Newton............................................................................... Harry Bains Surrey–Panorama Ridge.................................................................Jagrup Brar Surrey-Tynehead ....................................................................... Dave S. Hayer Surrey-Whalley...........................................................................Bruce Ralston Surrey–White Rock ............................................................Hon.

Gordon Hogg Vancouver-Burrard..............................................................Lorne Mayencourt Vancouver-Fairview.............................................................Gregor Robertson Vancouver-Fraserview .................................................Hon.

Wally Oppal, QC Vancouver-Hastings .................................................................Shane Simpson Vancouver-Kensington.......................................................David Chudnovsky Vancouver-Kingsway ......................................................................Adrian Dix Vancouver-Langara ........................................................... Hon. Carole Taylor Vancouver–Mount Pleasant........................................ Jenny Wai Ching Kwan Vancouver–Point Grey ................................................Hon.

Gordon Campbell Vancouver-Quilchena.........................................................Hon. Colin Hansen Victoria–Beacon Hill...................................................................

Carole James Victoria-Hillside ...........................................................................Rob Fleming West Kootenay–Boundary........................................................Katrine Conroy West Vancouver–Capilano...........................................................Ralph Sultan West Vancouver–Garibaldi ........................................................Joan McIntyre Yale-Lillooet..................................................................................... Harry Lali

CONTENTS Monday, March 10, 2008 Afternoon Sitting Routine Proceedings Page Introductions by Members ....................................................................................................... ............................................ 10339 Tributes ....................................................................................................................... ............................................................ 10339 Fort St. John medal winners Hon. R.

Neufeld Introductions by Members ....................................................................................................... ............................................ 10339 Statements..................................................................................................................... .......................................................... 10339 Message of appreciation S.

Hawkins Tributes ....................................................................................................................... ............................................................ 10340 Mark Rose M. Farnworth Hon. C. Richmond Introduction and First Reading of Bills........................................................................................ ....................................... 10340 Housing Statutes Amendment Act, 2008 (Bill 10) Hon. R.

Coleman Statements (Standing Order 25B) .............................................................................................................................. ........... 10341 Status of women C. Trevena Agriculture Safety Awareness Week V. Roddick B.C. amateur hockey tournaments G. Coons Sexual exploitation of children and youth I. Black North Cariboo Community Campus B. Simpson Ethel Tibbits Awards in Richmond J.

Yap Oral Questions................................................................................................................. ....................................................... 10343 Government relationship with Ken Dobell C. James Hon. W. Oppal M. Karagianis J. Kwan M. Farnworth S. Simpson D. Chudnovsky N. Macdonald B. Simpson R. Fleming L. Krog Petitions...................................................................................................................... ............................................................. 10347 D. MacKay G. Coons

Second Reading of Bills........................................................................................................ ................................................. 10348 Forests and Range Statutes Amendment Act, 2008 (Bill 8) Hon. R. Coleman B. Simpson C. Trevena C. Wyse Hon. R. Coleman Point of Privilege (Reservation of Right) ...................................................................................... ...................................... 10355 B.

Simpson Second Reading of Bills........................................................................................................ ................................................. 10356 Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Amendment Act, 2008 (Bill 9) Hon. P. Bell L. Krog C. Wyse Hon. P. Bell Local Government Statutes Amendment Act, 2008 (Bill 7) Hon. I. Chong C. Wyse D. Thorne M. Farnworth S. Simpson M. Sather G. Gentner J. Kwan B. Ralston B. Bennett Hon. I. Chong Electoral Reform Referendum 2009 Act (Bill 6) Hon. W. Oppal B.

Ralston Committee of the Whole House................................................................................................... ........................................ 10371 Ministerial Accountability Bases Act, 2007-2008 (Bill 5) B. Ralston Hon.

M. de Jong Report and Third Reading of Bills .............................................................................................. ......................................... 10375 Ministerial Accountability Bases Act, 2007-2008 (Bill 5) Committee of Supply...................................................................................................................... ....................................... 10376 Estimates: Ministry of Transportation Hon. K. Falcon M.

Karagianis Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room Committee of Supply...................................................................................................................... ....................................... 10378 Estimates: Ministry of Small Business and Revenue and Minister Responsible for Regulatory Reform Hon. R. Thorpe J. Brar G. Robertson D. Routley

10339 MONDAY, MARCH 10, 2008 The House met at 1:33 p.m. [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] Introductions by Members Hon. M. de Jong: Today we are really thrilled to have representatives from the government caucus members' constituency offices, the constituency assistants who serve not only the members of this assembly but British Co- lumbians so well. We hope that all members will take advantage of this opportunity to both welcome them and express our thanks for the tremendous work they do. Hon. G.

Campbell: I just did want to say how much we appreciate the work that all of our constituency assistants do across the province, whether it's on the opposition side, I'm sure, or our side. They are the true front-line workers for all government services in British Columbia, and I want to say how much we all appreci- ate the work that they do on behalf of the people of the province of British Columbia. C. James: Today in the Legislature we have ESL teacher Frances Embury with three of her students, who are touring the buildings.

Frances is tutoring three women who've come from South Korea with their chil- dren, so their children can learn English in our B.C. school system. They'll be returning to Korea to reunite with their families at the end of the school term, and some of them are looking at perhaps coming back in September. So please make welcome Frances Embury, Bu Ja Hwang, Mi Ran Yoo and Jeung Eun Jang. [1335] Hon. G. Campbell: I am pleased to welcome back to the legislative precinct the MLA for Kelowna-Mission. [Applause.] D.

Chudnovsky: It's wonderful to see in the gallery today guests of mine who are here visiting, my brother-in-law Gavin Herman and sister-in-law Shirley Herman. It's a wonderful treat to have them here visiting us in B.C. They've been doing some travelling. Together with them is a cousin and great friend, Brian Taylor, who is visiting u s f r o m B i r m i n g h a m i n England. He is the most progressive minister I've ever met and also one of the funniest. Accompanying them is my partner Ruth Herman, who, as you all know, is the best political organizer in the known universe. Would you welcome them all, please.

Tributes FORT ST. JOHN MEDAL WINNERS Hon. R. Neufeld: I'm proud to say that this last weekend, a Fort St. John native was winning interna- tional accolades. Denny Morrison captured the gold medal at the world single distance speed skating championship. Denny won the men's 1,500-metre event on Sunday in Nagano, Japan. On Saturday, Denny also won a bronze medal in the 1,000-metre event. Canada ended the competition with nine medals. It's great to see our speed sk ating team is on the right track to own the podium at the 2010 Olympics right here in British Columbia.

Could we please give Denny and the team a round of applause. Last Thursday I was also able to introduce two bands from my school district in Fort St. John. They were competing at BandFest here in Victoria by invita- tion. I want to also send congratulations to those youngsters and individuals. Both of them won gold while they were here in Victoria. I think that's just great for young people to come all the way from Fort St. John down here, compete and go home with two gold medals. Would we give them a round of applause too, please. Introductions by Members D.

MacKay: Last night I was watching television, and I couldn't help but notice some shots from back east in the province of Ontario, where people were trying to move that heavy snow. Certainly, I can understand why people would want to come out to British Columbia for a visit during this time of the year. I had lunch today with a couple of people I met a few years ago from Lake Simcoe. Jim and Mary Roberts are in the precinct today, and I'd ask the House to please give them a warm welcome. Hon. M.

Coell: I have three guests in the legislative precinct this afternoon: Karen Mooney, who has worked on my campaign since 1981, her daughter Jennifer Collard and her husband John Collard. Would the House please make them all welcome. Hon. P. Bell: Joining us in the gallery today is a good friend and a good supporter, Dennis Jackson from Prince George. Would the House please make him very welcome. B. Bennett: Did you know that it takes 12 hours to drive to Cranbrook from Vanc ouver while it only takes eight hours to drive to Prin ce George from Vancouver?

There is a gentleman in the House here today, Jerry Sobe, who is the program director for the restor ative justice program in Cranbrook and di strict, who drove all the way down here just so he could come in here today, watch us in question peri od and see how democracy works. So please help me make Jerry welcome. Statements MESSAGE OF APPRECIATION S. Hawkins: If I may say, it's great to be back. If I can, I just want to say thank you for your support, Mr. Speaker, and to everyone in this chamber for the last….

10340 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES M ONDAY, MARCH 10, 2008 It's been almost five months. Time flies when you're having fun. I've really appr eciated all the thoughts, the prayers, the cards, the gifts. [1340] You know, oftentimes in this chamber there's a clash- ing, but when someone is il l, the place comes together. I can't think of better friends and family than people in these precincts. So I thank you, Mr. Speaker, the Premier, the Leader of the Opposition and all my colleagues. Thanks for all your support. Tributes MARK ROSE M.

Farnworth: It's my sad duty to inform the House of the passing on Saturday of one of our most distin- guished members in recent years. That is Mark Rose, who was the MLA for Coquitlam-Moody from 1983 to 1991. Mark was my predecessor. He was a great friend and a mentor to me in politics. He was born on March 5 in Vancouver in 1924.

He served as a councillor — or at that time an alderman — in what was the district of Coquitlam prior to running firs t in a federal election in 1965, but being successful in the federal election of 1968 and serving as an MP for Fraser Valley West, which at that time took in from Port Moody all the way up the valley out to Langley. He served until 1975, when he lost in 1975. Then he returned in 1979 and served federally until 1983, when he entered this House. Mark established a reputation here as someone with a great sense of humour and a very, very sharp wit.

But he was a man who used it not to be mean but to make a point in a good-natured wa y. That was very much, I think, the hallmark by which he was known around these chambers. Someone who respected the institution, he respected all members on both sides of the House. He had a great, great sense of this place about him, and he really was a remarkable individual. He was Opposition House Leader from '86 to '91. He had a tremendous musica l talent, which served the opposition extremely well during the annual press gallery skit.

He composed a number of skits for the press gallery, some of them quite remarkable and some of them always remarkable — often modelled on some of his favourite operetta musicals, usually around Gilbert and Sullivan. They were extremely well done. I know my colleague from Kamloops knows all about them, as does the member from Comox, who had the privilege of serving with him. His musical career served him well in retirement in Vernon, where he played in a band, I believe with the member from Kamloops as well — quite the musicians, both of them. He's survived by his wife Isabel and his daughters.

I just want to ask you, hon. Speaker, that we send con- dolences to his family, because his was a rare talent and a rare presence that graced this chamber. Hon. C. Richmond: I ju st w ant to ad d a f e w com - ments to what the Opposition House Leader said. I had the pleasure of serving in this House for several years with Mark, as did my colleague the Minister of Tour- ism, Sport and the Arts. I made a few comments about Mark on Thursday, but they were kind comments, so I just want to add a couple of things. As the member for Port Coquitlam– Burke Mountain said, he was Opposition House Leader for quite a while.

At the time, I was Government House Leader, so we had a lot to talk about every day. Naturally we didn't always agree on everything, because he was on that side and I was on this side, but we always had the utmost respect for each other. Mark was a gentleman and a man of his word. When he said something, you could count on it. He was an accomplished musician. Although I did little gigs around here wi th Mark, we never managed to play in the same band together. He never made an application to join the Kamloops Rube Band. I'm sure he would have been qualified. I have no doubt about it. Interjections. Hon. C.

Richmond: But he was a great guy, and I enjoyed him very much. He became a good friend, and I will miss him very much. [1345] Introduction and First Reading of Bills HOUSING STATUTES AMENDMENT ACT, 2008 Hon. R. Coleman presented a message from His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor: a bill intituled Housing Statutes Amendment Act, 2008. Hon. R. Coleman: I move that Bill 10 be introduced and read a first time now. Motion approved. Hon. R.

Coleman: Today I introduce Bill 10, which proposes amendments to the Local Government Act, the Community Charter, th e Vancouver Charter, the Architects Act, and the Engineers and Geoscientists Act of British Columbia. The amendments in this b ill will create safer building and a greener building code by improving the way buildings and construction are regulated. This bill allows local governments to enact bylaws to conserve energy and water, reduce greenhouse gas emissions and improve building accessibility for persons with disabilities.

It is the first step to a greener B.C. building code, with much more to come in the weeks ahead. I move that the bill be placed on the orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. Bill 10, Housing Statut es Amendment Act, 2008, introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed

MONDAY, MARCH 10, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 10341 on orders of the day for second reading at the next sit- ting of the House after today. Statements (Standing Order 25B) STATUS OF WOMEN C. Trevena: Saturday was International Women's Day. There were Women's Day celebrations throughout the weekend, but it should also perhaps be a time to reflect for women. We've been celebrating this day for almost 100 years. We as women have come far, but I don't think far enough. We are persons, although I think if you'd asked a woman 100 years ago if she was a person, she would have told you she was.

It just took the courts some time to catch up. We have the vote, and there are 17 of us elected women in this chambe r . W e g o t o u n i v e r s i t y , and we get degrees, and we go to work. In most households, both the man and the woman have to work. In the majority of those households, it will be the woman who, on top of the largely underpaid work, will still deal with the cooking, the cleaning and the child care.

But it's not because of these slightly cynical sighs do I suggest that Canadian women may want to pause in their celebration this year for International Women's Day, at least for a couple of months, because pay equity day doesn't actually fall until May 10. It's going to take until May 10 for Canadian women to earn what Canadian men earned in 2007. Canadian women earned 64 percent of what men earned, so it takes 17 months to earn what a man earns in 12. That's just the average; 60 percent of women earn less than $25,000 a year.

When we talk about poverty, we are usually talking about women — single moms trying to raise their kids on a couple of minimum-wage jobs, struggling to pay the rent and get groceries on the table. So for many women, we're still not even talking about equality. We are talking about simple survival, keeping afloat in this consumerist society with the high cost of living, while other families watch MVP: The Secret Lives of Hockey Wives or the isn't-it-so-delightful teen-pregnancy movie Juno. Maybe we haven't come as far as any of us had thought.

Perhaps the sisterh ood of today should look back to the fighters of a century ago or maybe even just 40 years ago, and pick up the pens and the placards and demand a full and equal place for all women in all parts of society. AGRICULTURE SAFETY AWARENESS WEEK V. Roddick: Manage more than just your back. This is the theme of the Agriculture Safety Awareness Week campaign that is being recognized from March 12 to 18.

During Agriculture Safety Awareness Week, we recog- nize worker safety, health care, economic productivity, meeting regulatory obligations and, most importantly, the moral obligation we have to preserve our most important asset — our people. [1350] The goal of this year's campaign is to encourage farmers and ranchers to th ink through their work and find ways to reduce risk. Our government has made huge progress in the area of protecting farmworkers.

The Farm and Ranch Safety and Health Association, FRSHA, now works directly with farm labour contrac- tors on safety education and through its field safety coordinators. Many injuries can be prevented through proper design of work environment, redesign of tools and appropriate worker training. Once high-risk activities are recognized, steps can be taken to prevent or control occurrence and severity of accidents in agriculture. This includes working with major labour contractors to provide in-house training to their workers and ensuring appropriate health and safety programs are in place.

I would thank all members of the House for joining me in recognizing Agriculture Safety Awareness Week because, of course, we all have to eat to live. B.C. AMATEUR HOCKEY TOURNAMENTS G. Coons: I'd like to take this opportunity to talk about some very exciting events coming up in a num- ber of our communities. Duri ng spring break the B.C. Amateur Hockey Association championships will swing into action in 16 of our communities throughout the province, from peewee divi sion to juveniles, both males and females participating to show who can bring home the bragging rights.

I approach this topic today as I finally reminisce about my travels to many pr ovincial championships in my past capacity as the northwest coaching coordinator for B.C. Amateur Hockey. I do want to mention that Rupert is the host for this year's girls bantam-A provin- cials, and I know that Rupert will rock for five straight days as the eight girls teams pull into town. Three local players, Sage Vanier, Tristen Repole and Kelcie German, will lace up for the first time. I remember back in 1982 when women's hockey was first officially recogniz ed in our province.

It was the year of the infamous Vancouver Canuck race for the title. The towels were waving throughout the province, and B.C. Amateur Hockey finally, after six decades of encouragement, threw in the towel and welcomed girls to the ranks. To their credit, they immediately took a leadership role and promoted women's hockey at the next B.C. Winter Games.

I wish to acknowledge and thank the horde of organizers and volunteers in all of the host communi- ties from Cranbrook, Chase, Dawson Creek, Nanaimo, Vernon, Kitimat, Summerland, Beaver Valley, Mackenzie, Vancouver, Prince George, Victoria, Kamloops, Comox Valley and especially Prince Rupert for making these tournaments happen. Hockey is a lifelong acti vity that must ensure fun and positive experiences are combined with the teach- ings of skill and technique. I encourage everyone to

10342 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES M ONDAY, MARCH 10, 2008 head down to their host arena and take in a game or two. I wish all the players the best of luck, along with a tidbit of advice: carry your stick low, keep your head up and, most of all, have fun. SEXUAL EXPLOITATION OF CHILDREN AND YOUTH I. Black: Sexual abuse can be broadly defined as the exploitation of an indi vidual through prostitution, pornography and the exchange of drugs, alcohol, transportation or shelter. This, of course, has serious adverse impacts on the victims, their families and our communities.

The unacceptable nature of this abuse, this exploitation, becomes dark and viscerally repug- nant when you contemplat e the victim as being a child. Our Lieutenant-Governor has agreed to the govern- m e n t ' s r e q u e s t t o p r o c l a i m M a r c h 1 0 t o 1 6 a s S t o p t h e Sexual Exploitation of Children and Youth Awareness Week. The fuchsia-coloured ribbon that I'm wearing today symbolizes the efforts in preventing the exploita- tion of children and youth, because it is a combination of red, for red-light districts, and purple, the provincial colour of violence prevention.

The week recognizes the importance of supporting communities to develop prevention, education, enforce- ment and intervention strate gies to address the sexual exploitation of children and youth. A variety of school and community-based events are being held through- out the province to support local programs, raise awareness and provide networking opportunities for the outreach and social wo rkers who do this crucial work with an emotional fortitude that I can't begin to comprehend. This exploitation of kids is so wrong and so pro- foundly disturbing at every level of humanity.

Crush- ing it today and preventing it from recurring in the future will only happen if communities, individuals, police and government work together.

We have to own this in our communities, teach our youth and the adults who have youngsters in their charge the aware- ness and self-defence against creating, encouraging or engaging in the circumstances and behaviours that lead to the crime of abusing kids. [1355] I would like all members to join me in offering en- couragement and appreciation to all the organizations in B.C., including many in the Tri-Cities like PLEA and Children of the Streets and the PoCoMo Youth Services Society, for constantly reminding those of us in a posi- tion of authority and leadersh ip of the existence of this exploitation and for their tireless and cooperative en- ergy at making this reality become a thing of the past.

NORTH CARIBOO COMMUNITY CAMPUS B. Simpson: I stand today to speak about the North Cariboo Community Campus. That campus in the city of Quesnel is a beacon for cooperation. It's a commu- nity effort, it's an institutional effort, and it is also a political effort that over the years has transpired into a beautiful campus. It sits overlooking the Quesnel River. I first encountered this ten years ago when the cur- rent mayor was then a city councillor and was selling $10 tickets on street corners for anybody who wanted to get involved in a thing called the post-secondary c o u n c i l .

N o b o d y b e l i e v e d t h a t i t w o u l d c o m e t o f r u i - tion, but the NDP government of the day actually set land aside. Then that was followed through by the current government, who helped that campus to be built. As the Minister of Edu cation and the Minister of Advanced Education know, this group did not stop there. They tactfully but persistently continued to lobby for what they call phase 2 of that campus. The phase 2 campus would give the community a trades and technology centre and what they call a mag- net centre for an agricultural focus to attract people to the community.

They're curr ently offering trades and technology through one of our local high schools that has been closed. They have 132 people across six trade groups. We are now attracting people from out of town into the community who, once they see how beautiful Quesnel is, decide that they're going to relocate there. So it's now become a relocation initiative as well as an economic development initiative for us. The commu- nity advocated for the phase 2 at the Finance Committee and in a recent visit with the Minister of Education.

Kudos to that group to continue the community effort, to not sit back on their laurels once they got the first phase, and to continue to participate in the future of our community and what we need to develop that community and diversify our economy. I ask the House to join me today and say a heartfelt thanks to the post- secondary advisory council in Quesnel. ETHEL TIBBITS AWARDS IN RICHMOND J. Yap: On this Monday following International Women's Day, I rise to recognize the hard work, dedi- cation and community spirit of a group of women from my community of Richmond.

Last Monday I was honoured to join 300 fellow Richmond citizens and attend the 15th annual Ethel Tibbits women of distinction awards. Organized by the staff at the Richmond Review, the awards are a formal way of thanking those women who have excelled in a variety of ways around our community. The award is named in honour of the Richmond Review's pioneering editor, Ethel Tibbits, who took over the helm in 1934 and was not afraid to speak her mind and stand up for the injustices that she saw going on around her.

Although she was outspoken on many issues, she'll be remembered most for her series of editorials con- demning the internment of Japanese Canadians following the events at Pearl Harbor. She was a woman who spoke out when others remained silent and was a true hero for many. This year there were many great nominees, and the awards went to a very deserving group indeed. Nikki Avendano won the youth award for contributions to volunteering and youth leadership. Robert Alexander

MONDAY, MARCH 10, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 10343 McMath Secondary School teacher Manninagh L'Abbe took home the community award for her dedication to her students and encouragin g student involvement in the community. Stephanie Kennedy won the sports award for her continued involvement both locally and provincially in the sport of cheerleading. Lennie Tan won the award for excellence in arts for her use of music therapy in the rehabilitation of people with both emotional and physical needs.

Elizabeth Specht, executive director of Volunteer Richmond, won the business award for excellent management of the non-profit organization. This year's fundraiser raised a record $20,000 for local charities, including the women's safe haven Nova House, Richmond Hospital's maternity ward and the Ethel Tibbits scholarship endowment fund. All in all, it was an excellent event to honour those who dedicate themselves to continually improving our community. [1400] Oral Questions GOVERNMENT RELATIONSHIP WITH KEN DOBELL C.

James: Just a few moments ago British Columbi- ans learned that a special prosecutor approved a charge against one of the Premier's top advisers, Ken Dobell. Terrence Robertson has recommended that Ken Dobell be charged for violating the Lobbyists Registration Act. He also concluded that there is a substantial likelihood of conviction for influence-peddling under the Criminal Code. My question is to the Pr emier. He knew Ken Dobell was lobbying. He knew that Ken Dobell was wearing many hats and doing many projects. Why didn't he do something to stop it? Hon. W. Oppal: Mr.

Dobell is scheduled to appear in court in Vancouver on the 12th of March. In the cir- cumstances, it would not be appropriate to comment. Mr. Speaker: The Leader of the Opposition has a supplemental. C. James: This is about the Premier's behaviour. Last time I checked, the Premier's behaviour wasn't in front of the courts. It took the opposition ra ising questions of conflict of interest and lobbying violations before we saw this government do anything, before we saw absolutely any kind of investigation occur. The Premier sat back and watched his top adviser break the rules.

This goes to the heart of the Premier's in tegrity and the integrity in his office. So my question is to the Premier. How can British Columbians have any trust in the ethics of the Pre- mier's office when a special prosecutor has said there is substantial likelihood of influence-peddling, and the Premier did nothing about it? Hon. W. Oppal: The special prosecutor has also said that it would not be appropriate to comment on the circumstances of the case at this time. Mr. Speaker: The Leader of the Opposition has a further supplemental. C.

James: You know, once again, we see the gov- ernment doing what they always do, which is trying to hide behind being able to answer any questions. This is not about the case. This is about the Premier. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. C. James: This is about the Premier's integrity. This is about the integrity of the Premier's office. The Premier had his deputy, Jessica McDonald, in- vestigate the charges of conflict and lobbying. And what did she come back and say? She came back and said that Ken Dobell was acting with the utmost integrity and that everything was fine. Clearly, she was wrong.

The entire investigation was a whitewash. The spe- cial prosecutor has concluded that Ken Dobell could be convicted of influence-peddling. Again, my question to the Premier: these illegal activities took place in his office with his knowledge, so how can British Columbians trust a Premier when he allowed these illegal activities to go on under his watch? Hon. W. Oppal: Mr. Dobell is scheduled to make his first appearance in Vancouver Provincial Court on the morning of March 12, 2008. As this matter is before the court, it would not be appropriate to comment on the circumstances of the case at this time.

In the meantime I would recommend to members of the opposition to read the report of the special prosecutor. M. Karagianis: I have a matter that is not before the courts. In early January it was revealed that Mr. Ken Dobell has expanded his bu siness and is now lobbying on behalf of Cubic Transportation Systems. In light of the report of the special prosecutor, will the government commit today to suspending all meet- ings and activities with Mr. Dobell, including those activities that involve lobbying public government agencies such as TransLink? Hon. W.

Oppal: I don't know what part of my pre- vious answer the opposition doesn't understand, but the matter is before the court. A judge will hear the case. A judge will make the appropriate finding. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. [1405] M. Karagianis: This has nothing to do with the courts or any appearance before the courts.

10344 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES M ONDAY, MARCH 10, 2008 I am asking the government if they will commit today to cease all future meetings and activities regard- ing Mr. Ken Dobell, his lobbying efforts to this gov- ernment and, specifically an d especially, to TransLink on behalf of Cubic Transportation Systems. Very sim- ple question. Will they please commit to discontinue all future meetings and activi ties with Mr. Dobell until this matter is resolved? Hon. W. Oppal: Hon. Speaker, these are not my words. These are the words of the criminal justice branch and the special prosecutor who was assigned in the case.

It is not appropriate to comment on any of these matters that are before the court. The opposition member can word the question any way she wants, but the fact is she's asking us to comment on matters, directly or indirectly, that are still before the court. J. Kwan: Let's be clear. Jessica McDonald was asked by the Premier to investig ate the conflict-of-interest allegations related to Ken Dobell. She cleared Ken Dobell of conflict of interest not once but twice. My question is to the Premier.

How could it be that his top person cleared Ken Dobell of conflict of interest when the Crown prosecutor is now making charges against him? Why did the Premier stand by and let Jessica McDonald clear Ken Dobell of conflict of interest in his office? Hon. W. Oppal: Why don't we wait for the matter to come to court? Why don't we just wait for the matter to come to court…? Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. W. Oppal: Of course, it's easier to speculate in this assembly, isn't it? Let's stop playing cheap politics with this. This matter…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Attorney, just take your seat for a second.

Continue. Hon. W. Oppal: This matter is before the Provincial Court of British Columbia. There's a very good reason why we have a sub judice rule, so as to have a separa- tion of power and to respect those separations of pow- ers that we have. We don't comment on matters that are before the court. There will be lots of time after- wards to comment on these cases. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. J. Kwan: My question is to the Premier.

Will the Premier tell this House and British Columbians what other involvements is Ken Dobell involved in with this government, and will he actually set aside all Ken Dobell's responsibilities until the court date? Hon. W. Oppal: The matter is before the Provincial Court. It is not appropriate to comment on the circum- stances of the case at the time. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. M. Farnworth: To the Attorney General. If a minister of the Crown was facing charges recommended by a special prosecutor, we would hope the Premier would ask that they stand aside.

So my question to the Attorney General is: why does he not think it's appropriate, then, that Mr. Dobell — a senior political aide, a former senior political aide of this Premier — step aside from any lobbying activity, any meetin gs with the provincial government, any meetings with any publicly funded agency until this matter is cleared up? Hon. W. Oppal: As a former member of the executive of government, that member should know better than to ask that question. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. The member has a supplemental. Proceed. [1410] M.

Farnworth: Well, if the Attorney General doesn't get the appearance of some one facing charges continu- ing to lobby public agenci es, perhaps the Premier of British Columbia might get it. Until this matter has been cleared up before the courts , will the Premier tell this House that it is unacceptable for Mr. Dobell to lobby in any way, shape or form any member of this government, any publicly funded agency until this issue has been dealt with by the courts of British Columbia? Hon. W.

Oppal: W e l l , i t ' s a p p a r e n t t o m e t h a t t h e hon. member has not read the report of the special prosecutor and the statemen t of the criminal justice branch, which is issued independent of our office. Mr. Dobell is scheduled to make his first appearance at the Vancouver Provincial Court on the morning of March 12, 2008. As this matter is before the court, it would not be appropriate to comment on the circumstances of the case at this time. Mr. Speaker: I remind members: it's four times we've asked this question. S. Simpson: I realize the question has been asked a number of times.

Unfortunately, the government has refused to answer the question. My question is to the Pr emier. It's very clear Mr. Dobell is now before the courts. The special prosecutor has said that there's more than enough evidence to pursue a conviction. Will the Premier commit to this House today that he will sever all relationships

MONDAY, MARCH 10, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 10345 between this government and Mr. Dobell until this matter is settled by the courts? Hon. W. Oppal: You see, the difficulty with that question is that whatever ta kes place in a courtroom is inseparable from what that member has asked. We don't know what the court is going to say. We don't know what the court's ultima te disposition will be. In those circumstances, it is improper for us to comment as to what the court may or may not do. We are not free to speculate as to what a court will do. It's inap- propriate to comment.

I don't know what part of that the opposition members don't understand. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. S. Simpson: I would assume that any minister over there or senior deputy or seni or official in this govern- ment that was facing the circumstances that Mr. Dobell faces today — facing charges in front of the court for influence-peddling — would be stepping aside their position until this matter was settled. Why is there a double standard for Mr. Dobell, and will the Premier stand up and say that there is no double standard and that he and his government will not deal with Mr.

Dobell until this matter is settled in the courts? Hon. W. Oppal: I would assume that the member can read the report of the special prosecutor, who is independent of government. If the member read the report, he would understand why the recommendation is made by the criminal justice branch not to comment any further on the matter. D. Chudnovsky: The Premier is in charge. The buck stops there, in that seat. We ask the Premier to stand today in this House and say that the relationship with Mr. Dobell will be ended today until this is cleared up. Will the Premier answer the House? [1415] Hon. W.

Oppal: Actually, the buck stops in the courtroom. There's a difference between a courtroom and this body here, and the opposition members should know that. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. D. Chudnovsky: The courtrooms try trials. The government is here in this room, and that man is in charge of the government. It's his responsibility to an- swer to this House. We ask him to answer to this House. Will the government take the action it can take? Will the Premier take the action he can take and sever the relationship with Mr. Dobell? Hon. W. Oppal: We…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. W.

Oppal: We believe in the rule of law. We think it's appropriate. Interjections. Hon. W. Oppal: I notice that they laugh at that, when we talk about the rule of law. Obviously, they don't believe in the rule of law. The rule of law dictates that we wait for the judge to make his or her decision before any further action is taken. At this stage…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. W. Oppal: I think the member for Surrey– Panorama Ridge wants to say something, so I'll sit down. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. N. Macdonald: What we're talking about here is the appearance that this creates.

The Premier has to answer this question. Does he think that it's okay for Ken Dobell to continue in his role with this hanging over the government's head? Is that in any way appropriate? Hon. W. Oppal: You know, what we think about a particular set of circumstances and how we speculate on what may or may not take place in a courtroom is irrelevant. What is relevant is that we adhere to the principle of the rule of law. The rule of law under which we live is far too important to be compromised by political opportunism, which is taking place right now in this House. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. N.

Macdonald: This has everything to do with pub- lic confidence. Will the Premier sever all relationships with Ken Dobell immediately? Hon. W. Oppal: I wonder if it ever occurred to the members opposite that, at this stage, Mr. Dobell is innocent. He is presumed to be innocent. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. W. Oppal: That's a fundamental principle in our criminal law. You should understand that. We're hearing…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Attorney, just take your seat for a second. Members. Attorney, continue.

10346 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES M ONDAY, MARCH 10, 2008 Hon. W. Oppal: We are all sworn to uphold the law. Under our law, every person is presumed to be innocent until the contrary is proved. The Crown has to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. That hasn't been done. The fact that something may or may not happen to Ken Dobell down the road is completely irrelevant, and it's totally improper for anyone in this House, let alone lawmakers, to be talking about this. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: We're just going to wait for some silence. [1420] B. Simpson: The Attorney General keeps speaking about the rule of law.

He keeps asking if this side has actually read the briefing and the backgrounders on this, and the answer is yes. That's why we're in the House asking questions of ethical conduct and ethical standards that ought to apply to anyone who gets government money, particularly anyone who gets government money from the Premier's office, and who has stated publicly that he did not do the right thing in this case, that he did do something that was wrong — that there is going to be an investigation for further wrongdoing. This is a matter of ethical standards of the Premier's office.

Again to the Premier: will the Premier ask Mr. Dobell to step aside? Will he sever all relationships with Mr. Dobell until this matter is cleared up once and for all? Hon. W. Oppal: I assume, if the member opposite has read the report as he says he has, that he's ignoring the last two lines of the report. I'll read them again: "Mr. Dobell is scheduled to make his first appearance in Vancouver Provincial Court on the morning of March 12, 2008.

As this matter is before the court, it would not be appropriate to comment on the circum- stances of the case at this time." I don't know what part of that the members opposite don't understand. Mr. Speaker: Member has a supplemental. B. Simpson: Well, the reason that there's persistent comment, the reason that there'll be a persistent buzz in the public and the reason that we'll keep asking the questions is because right no w there's a question of the ethical conduct in the Premier's office for continuing a relationship with Mr. Dobell. We're not commenting on what will happen in the courtroom.

We're not commenting on anything. We're commenting on the fact that Mr. Dobell has already indicated that he did not fo llow the laws in the lobby- ists registry. He's already indicated that he has done wrong. For highest ethical standards, the Premier should do the single most important thing today: stand up and sever the relationship. Then we can get into the court system with the highest ethical standard. Hon. W. Oppal: Let me see if I've got this right. The Premier should step in now and impose some kind of penalty on something that's not yet before the courts. Never mind about the presumption of innocence.

Never mind…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members, the Attorney hasn't finished. Continue, Attorney. Hon. W. Oppal: Never mind that it's the Provincial Court judge who has the ultimate authority to decide what to do with Mr. Dobell. But you know, according to that member opposite, the Premier should step in right now and circumvent whatever the judge is going to do. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Just take your seat, Attorney. Continue. Hon. W.

Oppal: That round of applause and the a p p r o v a l o f t h a t q u e s t i o n i n d i c a t e t o m e h o w m u c h respect they have for the presumption of innocence and the rule of law. R. Fleming: We know that Mr. Dobell is before the courts. We don't need to hear that over and over again from the Attorney General. What we're asking about today…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Just take your seat, Member. Just take your seat for a second. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Continue, Member. [1425] R. Fleming: What we're asking about today is why Mr.

Dobell continues to make money from lobbying this government, the government that he is so closely tied to. Attorney General, I'm not asking you to comment on the serious charges before the courts. We're asking the Premier — and this is a question for him — to show good judgment and leadersh ip and sever the relation- ship today, once and for all, with Mr. Dobell until this matter is cleared before the courts. Hon. W. Oppal: So let's see if we've got this right. We're not going to prejudge this case.

We believe in the rule of law, but the Premier should do this and he should do that, and let's ig nore the court proceedings for the time being.

MONDAY, MARCH 10, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 10347 Never mind the rule of law. Never mind the pre- sumption of innocence. Never mind the fact that it's the judge who ultimately will decide what's going to happen to Mr. Dobell and what won't happen to Mr. Dobell. Let's prejudge all of it and do it in here. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. R. Fleming: There is ample precedent in this Legis- lative Assembly of ministers… Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. R. Fleming: …stepping aside while they're before the courts facing charges similar to what is occurring today.

Conflict is about actual and perceived conflict. Until the prosecution is complete regarding these seri- ous charges about ethics and lobbying, he shouldn't be working. That's the point the opposition is trying to make. Again, to the Attorney General…. Interjections. R. Fleming: He shouldn't be working with this government. Again, the question is to the Attorney General. Will he take… Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. R.

Fleming: …the precedented steps that have been done by ministers and deputy ministers before and order and sever ties between this government and their highest-paid adviser, who has ties to this government? Hon. W. Oppal: You know, in the 1990s Stephen Owen…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Take your seat. Sit down. Continue, Attorney. Hon. W. Oppal: In the 1990s Stephen Owen conducted an inquiry, and he gave advice to the government of the day. The government of the day, to its credit, passed a Crown Counsel Act.

What it did was place the prose- cution of cases outside the political realm, wherein the criminal justice branch is responsible for the prosecution of cases. But in certain circumstances where there may be a perception of bias, there's a provision for the appoint- ment of a special prosecutor so as to take it all out of the political realm. That 's what's happened in this case. The special prosecutor has given us, through the criminal justice branch, cert ain advice, and we plan to adhere to it. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. L.

Krog: What the Attorney General doesn't seem to understand is that the special prosecutor has stated in his

summary very clearly that Mr. Dobell is willing to waive the Offence Act limitation period and enter a plea of guilty for failing to register as a lobbyist under the Lobbyists Registration Act. The question is the sentencing. The real question is the integrity of government, the integrity of the Premier's office. Mr. Dobell was his special appointee. If Mr. Dobell was a police officer being charged, he'd be suspended with pay right now. All the opposition is asking of this Premier is that he demonstrate some leadership here today in this House and tell this House that Mr.

Dobell's activities are suspended. [1430] Hon. W. Oppal: Well, I must say that I'm somewhat disappointed by the question from that member, be- cause I expected better. He was here in the '90s when the Crown Counsel Act was passed. He understands why the Crown Counsel Act was passed. He understands why we have special prosecutors. He understands fully why, if we're going to follow the rule of law, we take politics out of it. He fully understands all of that.

So I'll resile to the previous answer I gave, and that is that we're not commenting upon this case until it's fully finalized in a courtroom. [End of question period.] Petitions D. MacKay: I have a petition here on behalf of 2,100 people in the Bulkley Valley who are concerned about people having to sell their homes, leave their friends and move to a centre where they can receive a life- sustaining treatment. They are asking the health care partners in Bulkley Valley to take the necessary steps to bring in a dialysis machine for the Bulkley Valley District Hospital. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. G.

Coons: It's hard to hear in here. Two petitions to present, hon. Speaker. Mr. Speaker: Proceed. G. Coons: A petition from 260 people in the Prince Rupert area wanting to pass legislation banning the sale of poisonous antifreeze and another petition from 388 residents of Galiano Island who would like to place

10348 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES M ONDAY, MARCH 10, 2008 a moratorium on ferry fares until a legislative commit- tee is in place. Orders of the Day Hon. M. de Jong: In Committee A, I call Committee of Supply. For the information of members, we'll be dis- cussing the estimates of the Ministry of Small Business and Revenue. In this chamber I call second reading of Bill 8, the Forests and Range Statutes Amendment Act. Second Reading of Bills FORESTS AND RANGE STATUTES AMENDMENT ACT, 2008 Hon. R. Coleman: I move Bill 8 be read a second time now.

Bill 8 makes important amendments to three statutes: the Wildfire Act, the Forest Act, and the Forests and Range Practices Act. Amendments to the Wildfire Act. Under this bill, communities are asked to ensure the highest standards for fire protection apply to areas they regulate. It asks them to ensure that a strong, local bylaw or wildfire act will apply in these areas.

It clarifies obligations for for- est operators or other indivi duals conducting activities in local government boundaries, so that if there's a forest fire, people will know who to contact for firefighting services — the local government or the province — and how it will be coordinated. This is important where local government bounda- ries include large areas of forest but they do not have the capacity to respond to fires in all parts of their district. With these changes, wildfires may be quickly actioned by the appropriate authority.

This act also responds to the needs of first nations who wish to practise their ri ghts to harvest timber for domestic use, such as building their own homes. The right to harvest timber for domestic purposes has been upheld by the Supreme Court of Canada in the Sappier decision. We're expanding the free use permit process to include domestic use by first nations and to increase the amount of timber that can be harvested. It also streamlines administration. It supports the coast forest action plan by reducing red tape, meaning industry is more competitive.

It streamlines the marking o f t i m b e r t r a n s p o r t e d b y w a t e r . I t n o l o n g e r n e e d s t o have forest workers hammer timber marks in every stick of boom, where it is dangerous to do so. It simplifies the operations and addresses worker safety at the same time. [K. Whittred in the chair.] On the B.C. Timber Sales side, it allows for greater flexibility to pursue new opportunities for B.C. Timber Sales. For example, it would enable B.C. Timber Sales to develop a business relationship with a first nation or group to bring more wood to market.

With more flexible financial controls, BCTS could develop a col- laborative timber sale licence and be paid for expenses and help the first nation in order to build its capacity. It supports a new relationship with first nations, allows more timber to mark et and actually deals with an issue that is near and de ar to both first nations and licensees — each other. There are some other administrative amendments which ensure that forest licensees consistently report all cost information to the government in a timely manner.

That data is necessary to support the market pricing system, which is important to our relationship with the United States under softwood and also to identify what the price of the value of the commodity should be to government. [1435] The Forest and Range Prac tices Act, which is going to be updated, is related to the rules around the forest stewardship plans and their approval, review and re- placement. Amendments incr ease the opportunity for the public to review and gi ve input and a requirement for government approval.

Amendments also strengthen sustainable forest management by ensuring all significant harvest of tim- ber affected by fire, pest or disease is governed by a forest stewardship plan. This ensures harvest reflects government objectives for the conservation of forest and range values. At the same time, salvage harvest for forest health purposes can be conducted promptly. The bill continues the work of this government in ensuring the sound management of forest resources and the forest sector in British Columbia. B. Simpson: As usual, amendment acts are….

It's very difficult to determine what the true purpose is without an awful lot of work and some debate in the House, so my comments with respect to this act are perfunctory. I will be looking at various details in the act as we go through it. But the act does give us an opportunity to say what is not being addressed in here. As the minister starts out, he talks about the Wildfire Act and the changes with respect to bylaws for local government. What local governments really need are more resources to address the fuel that is building up all around their communities.

What they need is more assistance from the government to complete their wild- fire plans but then, once they 're completed, to actually get the resources that they need to be able to reduce the fuel loading on their land base. The minister could come ba ck and say: "Well, they're giving community forests out. They're giving all kinds of things out to try and help that happen." But the issue here has been raised by the community of Logan Lake, through the UBCM — that there are fundamental issues of liability. There are fund amental issues concerning who bears the brunt of the costs.

As an example, if a municipality is the owner of a wildfire plan and has made that wildfire plan for their interface, then they're requ ired to expend municipal tax dollars to extend outside their borders into Crown land and other land, becaus e that's the requirement that necessitates getting the funding. You have to have

MONDAY, MARCH 10, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 10349 some of your own money on the table. There's a fund- ing formula. The municipalities are sayi ng: why should they take tax dollars from the municipal property tax base to do work outside of the municipal boundaries? That's not an appropriate use of municipal tax dollars. That issue is not addressed in this bill. It 's not a fix that has been given, and there are no resources for the communities to address that. The issue of liability is there, and it's some- thing that we're going to have to canvass in the debate.

I need to understand, from the minister's perspective and his staff when we get into third reading on this, if this is a transfer of liability to municipalities and to local governments by the fact that they have to have a bylaw. As the minister indicates, it gives them the ability to do first response. They don't have to wait for ministry. But as the industry has pointed out to the minister on many occasions, the Wildfire Act is

an act to pass liability downward and away from government. I can tell you that I have had local governments approach me and ask me whether or not that's what this is doing. It's making that liability not just pass to the licensees and to the people who are doing the work on the land base. Are we now passing liability for wild- fire and all of the consequences of a wildfire onto local government and municipalities? Rather than fixing the problem that was raised through the UBCM's first interface fire report, we're actually, potentially exacerbating it.

Again, that will be something that we will canvass during the debate to make sure that is clearly understood, not by just the members of this House but by the local governments that need that clarification. One aspect of this bill, as the minister points out, is in response to a court finding with respect to first nations having access to the forests surrounding them for their own use.

It's the free use permits on the land base, inde- pendent of things like forest and range agreements. [1440] What this bill does not address — and the minister well knows, as does his staff, as does the staff in the Ministry of Aboriginal Re lations and various other land use ministries — is that first nations have a fun- damental problem with the structure of forest and range agreements and forest and range opportunities. They don't like them. They take them because there's cash upfront and, in many cases, it's the only way they get access to the land base. Bu t they don't like them.

They have been asking this government to fundamentally change them since they first put them in place. The Nadleh First Nation has worked with the min- istry and the minister's staff for a long time now and cannot get an answer as to how they get an economic access to their land base that will work for them and make them viable. They ca n't get answers from the government. They want fund amental change to forest range agreements and forest range opportunities. The free use permit is nice. It's a nice addition; it's a nice correction. It does not address what their issues are.

In fact, there was a report out recently. I know the minister likes to wax eloquent about all the numbers of forest and range agreements and all the volume that's out there, but a report entitled Aboriginal Forestry Enterprise Roadmap that was published last week makes the following comments: "It is true that a few first nations have achieved modest success in forestry in B.C., but this is not the case for the vast majority. The job creation record of first nations is about 3 percent of the industry standard." Here are the actual numbers.

Of the 70,000 people employed in B.C., only 934 jobs from first nations communities. Instead of getting an industry average of a thousand jobs for every cubic metre, the first nations only get 34.7 jobs. That's wh at needs to be addressed, and it's not addressed in here.

Again, the report states: "Cash received from gov- ernment was inadequate to the real costs of developing their forest and range tenures." That is a significant issue for forest range agreements, where the upfront cash — which the Supreme Court of British Columbia has ruled was not a constitutional formula-based approach to giving that cash out in the first place — i s s im ply not sufficient for the first nations to build the capacity they need to maximize even the small volumes of tenure that they're given. So the tenure size is a problem. The cash upfront is a problem.

And, as the minister well knows, the Union of B.C. Indian Chiefs has pointed out time and time again that these call into qu estion judicial and constitu- tional arguments. They bring that to the fore once again, because the first nations do not believe that these agreements are either constituti onal or judicially fair to them based on findings. Bill 8 doesn't do that; it doesn't address that. That's an immediate need of the B. C. Union of Indian Chiefs has asked and, in fact, has roasted a few ministers as a result of that. It's not addressed in this bill.

So while free use permits are a nice thing to have, the real issue is not addressed. Let's talk about the stream lining of timber marking. I was trying to figure out — because the press release is a bit disconnected from the bill — where the bill does actually address the coast re covery plan. I'm thankful the minister's pointing that out. It's in the streamlining of marking of timber. Now, I get that there are safety considerations with marking timber on the wate r, but one of the things t h a t w e w i l l b e c a n v a s s i n g h e r e i s t h e f u l l r a n g e o f streamlining for marking timber.

If you read the com- pliance and enforcement annual reports, you'll find that one of the biggest problems that they have is im- properly or not-marked timber. So in streamlining, in order to achieve one goal, we may be exacerbating a problem that exists already. We may be making that problem worse.

I n p a r t i c u l a r , w h e n w e l o o k a t s o m e o f t h e i s s u e s around the MPS system — the market pricing system — the timely data collection, driving stumpage prices, etc., unmarked, poorly ma rked, improperly marked timber is a significant problem, particularly on the coast, but it's a problem also in the interior. Streamlin- ing that further could actually exacerbate that situation,

10350 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES M ONDAY, MARCH 10, 2008 all in the name of somehow giving efficiencies to the companies. We should remember who the companies are on the coast now. Most of the companies on the coast now have collapsed down to being log exporters and land developers, save one major company. As a consequence, their manipulating the system to their benefit under the guise of efficiencies has great benefit to their shareholders, but I'm not sure that it necessarily benefits British Columbians. [1445] We have significant problems with how we address the stumpage system just now.

That flared up, and it goes to the whole market pricing system and timely data collection. I find that almost laughable, given what has been revealed over the last little while and what I've been aware of since last fall. That is the fact that in the interior we ar e kiln-drying whole logs in order to drive us to 25-cent stumpage.

You have this market pricing system, but the minister, through his staff, has allowed two companies and two companies only to go from what was supposed to be a pilot project to fix a grading-rule problem into actually booking kiln-dried logs and therefore driving the stump- age prices down as just part of how they do business. Tolko did not get that opportunity. Others did not get the opportunity to do that. Interjection. B. Simpson: I see that I've got a reaction from the minister. I look forward to his response to it, but I think I have the floor.

As a consequence to that ad hoc approach, there's got to be a question there about how the timely data collection influences true pricing relative to some of the commitments that this minister has made in an ad hoc fashion all around the province. "We're going to change the point of appraisal." "We're going to have B.C. Timber Sales put out a big volume," as the Minister of Agriculture somehow managed to do up in Mackenzie area. All of that impacts the market pricing system at a much higher level than timely data collection. I look forward to that discussion. With respect to B.C. Timber Sales. B.C.

Timber Sales' problems go much d eeper than the relationship with first nations. B.C. Timber Sales is struggling, as an entity, to meet its stated objectives. It's struggling, as an entity, because on the one hand — and we've can- vassed this in estimates debate — it's supposed to maximize revenue to the Crown. It's supposed to do it at the least cost possible, and yet at the same time, somehow it's supposed to set the market pricing sys- tem. The connection between B.C. Timber Sales and its role in the marketplace and the market pricing system needs to be canvassed.

Again, timely data collection for the market pricing system just simply doesn't address the real issues that are out on the land base. I mostly want to concentrate on the forest steward- ship plan aspect of this and the minister's claim and the claim in the press release that this bill is going to actually improve public review and the government approval process for forest stewardship plans. I dis- pute that claim. I don't believe it does that at all. What it does is guarantee automatic approval of these forest stewardship plans so that we turn them from five-year plans into ten-year plans.

Now, these forest stewardship plans have a sordid history. These are part of the so-called results-based codes under the Forest and Range Practices Act. They have been a problem from the start. We had to canvass those problems in here in question period.

We had a report from the Forest Practices Board that pointed out that thes e forest stewardship plans were becoming legal documents that had very little to do with stewardship on the land base and that these plans have objectives in them that are the minimum objectives required by government but don't give any- body — the public or even the Ministry of Forests — any inkling of what the actual results were beyond the land base.

We have examples, around this province, of forest stewardship plans for vast tracts of British Columbia that are collapsed down into one very tiny document, a few pages that simply say, "We will meet the minimum legal objectives that the Crown requires for us," and in a language such that the public does not understand what is being said.

In the case of the Cariboo land use plan, there was h u g e b a c k l a s h b y t h e p e o p l e w h o w e r e i n v o l v e d i n that, because they kept saying they did not believe that, in the Cariboo-Chilcotin land use plan, the objectives that were so hard-fought and won at the core process table were going to be protected under these plans.

And they still don't believe that. [1450] In fact, Ministry of Forests staff said, in a presentation up in the Clayoquot Sound that they did to the folks who are managing that land use plan going forward, that they could not guaran tee the protection of the objectives in the Clayoquot Sound land use plan. We've had a more specific example recently, a Forest Practices Board investigation into a forest stewardship plan that was done on the Stillwater and the Sunshine Coast. They agree that this was done in November of last year.

They agree that these plans have a difficult format, that it's difficult for the public to interpret and provide meaningful comment on forest stewardship plans. They state, in this case, that this one particular plan covered all of the licensee's coastal operations, including Vancouver Island, the Queen Charlotte Islands and the mainland — one plan.

Now, can you imagine the watershed component of that plan, in which they put one objective for water- shed management, and that is that the sum total of activities in the watershed will not exceed what a mu- nicipal water system could accommodate, as long as it doesn't unduly restrict the flow of timber from the province of British Columbia? Imagine how many watersheds there are in the Queen Charlotte Islands, on Vancouver Island, on the coast — how many community watersheds, let alone

MONDAY, MARCH 10, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 10351 other watersheds that don't feed communities but that feed our fish stocks, that f eed our ocean systems. All of those, covered under one statement in this one plan. There is a fundamental problem with forest steward- ship plans. The public does not like them. The Forest Practices Board has made it known that they don't like them. In the case of this Stillwater plan, they actually call into question whether or not the objectives that were so hard-fought and negotiated in the Stillwater pilot project were actually carried into the forest stewardship plan.

They're very concerned about that. So what do we get? We get in this bill that the min- ister must roll these plans over for five more years if minimum criteria are met. That is not what the public wants. What the public wants is for these plans to be opened up as quickly as possible. They want these plans to be put into plainer English, less legalese. They want them written by foresters, not lawyers. They want them to be understood by th e public so that the public knows what's happening on the land base. And they want to go back to notifi cation.

When a licensee or a tenure holder is going to operate in their area, they get notification, and they get the ability to put public comment into that. Does that do this in this bill? Not on your life. It rolls these bad plans, these ill-formed legalese docu- ments, over automatically fo r another five years. The minister must do that, provided minimum criteria are met. Well, what's at risk? Again, the Forest Practices Board put out a special investigation in January of this year, called High Retention Harvesting and Timber Sustainability on the British Columbia Coast .

They open up their com- ments with a very interesting statement from a forester by the name of Hamish Kimmons. He stated: "Timber mining is not necessarily an inappropriate management goal. However, its danger for the forestry profession is not inherent in the practice itself, but only when it occurs consciously or uncon- sciously under the guise of sustained yield.

To do so further diminishes the credibility of foresters in the eyes of the public and the scientific community." The Forest Practices Boar d pointed out that, in the number of cutblocks they investigated, we were mining the prime timber from those cutblocks, to the long-term detriment of those forests to even have economic value, let alone all of the other values that are there. We were actually mining them so that we took away future eco- nomic value. I'll say it in this House, and I've said it publicly: we are mining our forests with impunity today. We are mining our forests in the in terior.

We are mining our forests on the coast. We are mining private lands on the coast that this government released so that that could happen with impunity. That has to stop. This Forest Range Practices Act actually allows that to happen because the government has allowed such wiggle room and legalese in those plans that a due diligence defence applies.

There are no standards that they can be held accountable to other than minimum legal objectives, which are prescribed and constrained by "unduly cl auses" and as long as is practicable or wherever practicable. [1455] So we vehemently oppose any movement on the part of the government to take these forest stewardship plans and roll them over for another five years without massive public consultation and a massive reworking of these plans so that the public can understand what it is that's going to happen on their land base, so that they can give meaningful comment to what is going to happen on their land base and so that they get due notification on a consistent basis whenever a licensee or a tenure holder is going to come in and operate in their watershed, their bac kyard or their viewscape.

That has to happen, and it's not in this bill. There's another aspect of th is bill that I will be can- vassing during debate and that the minister didn't point out. And that is that there's an amendment for being able to retroactively apply — to an approved forest stewardship plan — a downgraded standard for stocking and for silviculture. Again, I'll canvass this with the minister. My concern right now, particularly in the mountain pine beetle area, is that we are accruing a ma ssive silviculture liability. The companies have that silv iculture liability on their books, and they're carrying it forward.

It's in the tens of millions of dollars and could accrue, according to the minister's own documentation in the Mountain Pine Bee- tle Task Force document…. It could amount to a billion dollars in accrued liability in the mountain pine beetle area alone. That liability is driven by the standards for what we expect we regrow our forests to today. Those standards are high standards. A licensee that goes and cuts has to put the forest back and get it to what's called a free- growing state. The number of stems per hectare, the girth of those stems and the health of those stems are all part of that.

In this bill there's an inclusion of clauses that will allow those standards to be downgraded, even if a forest stewardship plan has expired. You can retroactively go back and downgrade those standards in a forest stewardship plan. What that means in plain English is that I can say and get my forest stewardship plan approved and get my right to cut approved on the basis of established high standards for silviculture and regrowth of that forest in my plan. If something happens a little bit later on…. I've already cut the trees. I've already got my economic value off the trees .

But if something happens later on and I cannot meet those standards, I can come to this government, and I can say: "Hmm. Can't meet those standards." I can get the Council of Forest Industries to go and lobby the government that we all can't meet the standards, because climate change is making it very difficult for us to get plantations to come back. It's becoming cost-prohibitive for us to keep going in and trying to get those plantations. So I can go to the minis- ter, and I can say: "Look, I want those standards down- graded, and we'll put the do wngraded standards into

10352 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES M ONDAY, MARCH 10, 2008 the plan that I was approved for." That's what this bill indicates. That's what we'll be canvassing when we get into the debate on this bill. This bill doesn't do what people need done on our land base. It doesn't restore confidence to the public by fundamentally changing these forest stewardship plans. That's what the public wants. It's not what the minister is doing.

It doesn't give first nation s the ability to get access to the land base in a meaningful way through a fun- damental change to the fo rest and range agreements and the forest and range opportunities. It doesn't address the issues that communities want for more resources for wildfire protection, for clarification of liability and for clarification of who's obligated for land outside the municipal boundary. It doesn't do that.

I have questions with a government of the day, a sympathetic administration of the worst possible kind when it comes to the forest industry and the land base, streamlining further all of the regulations with respect to timber marking. That should scare British Columbians, and we will be canvassing that further. I look forward to the deba te on a clause-by-clause…. Well, I don't really. It will be an interesting debate on a clause-by-clause basis. I will be bringing these questions and concerns into that, and I will concede the floor to the member for North Island. Hon. B.

Penner: I seek leave to make an introduction. Leave granted. [1500] Introductions by Members Hon. B. Penner: It's an honour for me to introduce a club which I joined about 13 years ago. I think it was in the spring of 1995 that I became a member of the Chilliwack Rotary Club. Today we're honoured to have their presence here. There's a large contingent seated in the gallery. I understand that they're here to find out why my attendance has dipped over the last 12 years or so since I got elected to come to this place. Hon. K. Krueger: Thanks for putting up with him. Hon. B.

Penner: Actually, it's these guys that have to put up with me now. This fact-finding tour is led by none other than their president, Barrie McMaster, who cut his teeth here as a reporter covering the machinations of the W.A.C. Bennett government when he then worked for the predecessor radio station that today we call CKNW. He's joined in this fact-finding tour by my former vice-principal Bob Hagkull, who I think is still trying to find out where I went when I was missing from some of those school classes in Sardis Secondary School back in the early 1980s.

I ask that you please wish this group well on their fact-finding tour here in Victoria. Debate Continued C. Trevena: I'll keep my remarks short on this. I just wanted to raise a few concerns that I have with Bill 8, the Forests and Range Statutes Amendment Act. Firstly, the issue of how it's dealing with first nations and the first nations forests and range act. I have a number of first na- tions in my constituency, a number of whom have forest and range agreements. What I hear from many of them is the fact that although they have the forest and range agreements, they really don't get much benefit out of them.

I'm looking forward to hearing the discussion as we get to committee stage, because what I see in this act is that it doesn't help those first nations who have these forest and range agreements to really benefit from them. There is always a concern of having the forest and range agreement when a fi rst nation is discussing treaty anyway and what the implications of the agree- ment will have for their treaty, but there is always the hope that it will help the economic viability of the first nation.

Many first nations enter these agreements think- ing that there's going to be something that's going to really benefit their people, that there is a way they can access their resource, get the land and actually use it. What is very sad and what I've seen throughout my constituency is that on the whole, first nations aren't in a position to benefit from thes e agreements and aren't in a position to benefit themselves from the access to the land. It ends up that if they are having access to the tim- ber to harvest it, they tend to contract out. They haven't got the skills to develop this themselves.

They haven't got the skills to go into the skilled side of the logging indus- try. They haven't got the money or the resources to truly invest in what a proper logging operation means in what are often very, very small areas of land. My colleague from Cariboo North quoted some very sad statistics that we have with this.

Whereas usually there are a thousand jobs pe r cubic metre, among first nations there are only 34.7 jobs. I think that's very telling. I think that's one of the very troubling things with both the forest and range agreements and the fact that it ap- pears that this bill will not address those concerns. We do need to make sure that first nations can have full access to their land and to their traditional territo- ries, which will obviously come through treaty.

But we also need to make sure that people have the capacity so that if they have access to the land, whether it is through a forest and range agreement, they actually do have the ability and the resource and the capacity to best use that. At the moment they don't have that, and there is nothing in this that will give them that support. There's a lot of support that is needed. There's a lot of willing- ness to learn, but there is a huge capacity deficit, really. There are one or two pe ople who are skilled, and there are people who've been working in the industry for many, many years.

There is no question about that. There are many people who've been working in the industry for many years, but it isn't enough. It isn't enough to take a first nation which is small in numbers and really benefit economically from these agreements. [1505]

MONDAY, MARCH 10, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 10353 I would hope that in discussion in committee stage, this can be addressed — that the government will look at moving on with this — so that first nations can really get benefits from the land base and can make sure that they are sharing in the weal th of British Columbia as they most rightly deserve. The other issue that I have with this, in what is clearly an omnibus bill — and so I'm just picking out a couple of the items in the omnibus bill — is the forest stewardship lands. These have had a very bad reputa- tion.

I've talked to — whether it's foresters, people in the Forest Service, woodlot operators…. Right across the board, there has been a real problem with forest stewardship plans, how they work, what is expected of them and how they'll work in the future. It's very troubling that this seems to be just rolling over into a bigger deal, rather than looking at what the problem is and saying, "Okay, how are we going to address this?" and making su re there was a solution. It looks like it's just pushing on for another few years.

We're going to keep on with more of the same problems, which won't really address the problems that those who are dealing with this regularly face and that the big companies face. One of the issues I have with the whole bill itself is as an omnibus bill. We do talk very often in this House about the crisis in the forest industry, the crisis on the coast, and what's happening in B.C. and what's happening with B.C.'s main industry, which is still forestry and which supports many, many people in my own communities. Again, this bill just doesn't address that.

It sort of picks and chooses an d cherry-picks a few things here and there, but it isn't looking at some of the substantial changes that we really need to be looking at — and look- ing at community by community and region by region — to see how we can move forward and make forestry into an industry which is going to take us through the 21st century as well as it took us through the 20th cen- tury. There are possibilities there, and I think we have to work very hard to achieve them. In this bill, I don't see that the government is look- ing at trying to find changes and find new ways of do- ing things.

It looks like it is mainly tweaking some of the things that it set up and not really looking at the broader picture of how to best look at the whole scene of what is happening in forestry on the coast. With that, I'll take my seat and look forward to committee stage. C. Wyse: It is indeed my privilege as well as my responsibility to be up in the House today to talk about Bill 8 and to share with the House a meeting that took place up in Cariboo South that involved the Minister of Forests and Range along with the Minister of Aborigi- nal Relations. It specifically was dealing with issues around forestry.

It is important that this House recognize that this bill, as I would understand it at this moment in time, leaves the working relationship with first nations on any forest relation act, fo restry range opportunities, still highly undefined with first nations. Where I am from, the Tsilhqot'in served informa- tion with me very shortly after being elected that unless issues were dealt with around their requests, issues and questions, any development in the Chilcotin was going to be subject to great obstacles, as their interests were not being dealt with. [Mr.

Speaker in the chair.] The ministers — both of them; I was pleased — at- tended a meeting. It looked like there may be resolutions upon a specific issue out in the Chilcotin. But recent conversations I've had with the first nations leadership in Cariboo South on this item would indicate that is not moving along as well as what all of us here would have hoped would be the case. Clearly, the incident that I'm talking about in my riding indicates the need for government to be in a position to deal with first nations around these types of agreements.

It would be my understanding of the legis- lation, as it reads at this moment in time, that it falls very short of doing that. [1510] I f w h a t I h a v e e x p e r i e n c e d a s a n M L A i s a t a l l representative of what is happening across the entire province, it indicates that this omnibus bill still falls way short, at least on this one important issue. I wish the House to be aware that on that issue alone, I have very severe and strong reservations on the inadequacy of this particular bill.

I'm hoping that as we move into the next stage with more detail, we can either clarify the concerns around this it em or make the necessary amendments. Otherwise, this bill falls very, very short of what is necessary to deal with this one item. Mr. Speaker: Seeing no further speakers, the Minister of Forests closes debate. Hon. R. Coleman: I always find it interesting when I hear the NDP talking about a miscellaneous statutes amendment act on forestry, and they decide that they….

I walk away with this really bad feeling that they don't like the industry, don't like forest-dependent communi- ties, don't like the people th at work in them and don't like the businesses supported by them. It's just bizarre. The member for North Island gets up and complains about forest stewardship plans, but without flexibility and a land base we wouldn't be finding wood for Neucel today, which is a major employer in her riding in Port Alice. I sit and listen to this th ing about the Filmon report, the cooperative thing and wildfires, and $21 million has been given to local communities to do wildfire plans.

A whole bunch of them have completed those. A number are already in process. There's $20 million additional for fuel management. In addition to fuel management, I was struck by the comment of the member for Cariboo North about Logan Lake, because we've been giving Logan Lake forest workers out of season for the last few years to implement their forest plan. The mayor of Logan Lake

10354 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES M ONDAY, MARCH 10, 2008 and her council come to me at UBCM every year and thank me for what we're doing with their community. They applaud that and have actually given us an award from that community because of what we've done with them. I know you don't like to hear about success. As you go through this, you've sort of got to wonder. The member for Cariboo South gets up and brings up a deal on which he stood in a room and thanked me in front of first nations fo r our leadership.

He thanked me and the Minister of Aboriginal Relations for coming to Williams Lake and solving a problem. Then he stands up in the House and says: "It's not going so well, and I don't see how this legislation is fixing it." Well, I've got news for the member for Cariboo South. It's got nothing to do with the legislation. The deal is done; the commitment is made. We're working through the details. I don't need a piece of legislation to follow along on that deal whatsoever. If you're going to get up and debate a bill, get your facts straight.

Understand the circumstance, and for heaven's sake, don't get up and say this legislation doesn't fix the problem — it's al- ready been fixed, and the negotiations are going on — after, in front of the pr ess and the local community, you've thanked the minister and the other minister, of Aboriginal Relations and Reconciliation. As we go through this bill, I'm sure we'll wander off, as we usually do, on a number of issues that have nothing to do with regard to the issues and the sections of the bill, which we often do in committee stage with these folks.

I want to talk about a couple of issues that the mem- bers seemed to want to take a shot at. Forest and range opportunities are not called forest and range agreements anymore, hon. Members. It's forest and range opportuni- ties. Why? By agreement with the First Nations Forestry Council and the first nations leadership, we changed the language and the name of the agreements to meet their expectations under the new relationship. As we did this, let's be clear about something. This is really, I think, very important. Since September of 2002 we've signed agreements with 149 first nations.

We're providing over $200 m illion in revenue-sharing and access to 33 million cubic metres of wood. The member for Cariboo North likes to quote the Aboriginal Forest Industries Council report that sum- marizes some opinions with regard to first nations and their survey with regard to the number of jobs per cubic metre today. But let me tell you someth ing, hon. Members. This is about capacity-building. This is starting from scratch to build a relationship in an industry. That will take some time.

The fact of the matter, though, is that the First Nations Forestry Council and I have been work- ing through a process for a number of months now, headed toward how we're dealing with pricing and building relationships with the land base. [1515] They asked us, quite frankly, to allow for B.C. Tim- ber Sales to be one of the partners that might be able to form a joint venture with them to move wood, and the members seem to be opposed to that. In addition to that, this is the interesting one I've got to remind the members of. I know you don't like to hear about the 1990s up to 2001.

But do you know that in that period of time, you didn't actually give one dollar in revenue-sharing and access to any money for first nations in British Columbia? Did you know you ignored them completely? Did you know you didn't build a relationship? Now, it may take some time for success, but there's one thing that this side of the House is committed to. That is making sure the fo rest and range opportunities we're working on with first nations in British Columbia are successful in the short te rm and in the long term, given the length of tenure and everything — that we're actually working on it with them today.

And oh, a little surprise for you. I don't need legislation to make those changes that we're already working on today. So a little surprise for you. The work is getting done. Maybe you might want to sit down with some members of the First Nations Forestry Council who actually know what's going on in the province of Brit- ish Columbia versus taking shots at the first nations w h o … . I t d i s g u s t s m e w h e n i t ' s a l w a y s a s h o t a t t h e first nations' ability to perform, when I believe first nations can get the job done, can build these capacity relationships with govern ment and with industry.

They can do it because we actually work with them. You get these comments and these debates, and you can't let them sit there — like the issue around kiln-drying. First thing I would suggest to the members that have made comments about this one is find out who was in the room and had the opportunity to par- ticipate in the pilot, who de cided to participate in the pilot and who decided not to participate in the pilot. That might be the first note.

The second thing the member might want to do is talk to industry and find out what the ministry is doing today to balance that, to make it fair and make it work for all industry. I know the member doesn't like the notion of kiln-drying, to see what it reflects with a log yard, with hundreds of thousands, if not millions of cubic metres of wood sitting in it. What happens when the weather warms up and the wood cracks and we've charged stumpage on a level of wood that isn't as good as what they thought they bought? I know you don't like that. I know you'd rather see the industry go broke.

I know you'd rather see them be able to stand up in the House and defame the in dustry rather than actu- ally see that the government and you, hon. Member, could actually work cooperat ively, given the fact that you have an absolutely huge, huge forest-dependent community in your own riding. Those companies are trying to survive and build a future for forestry in Brit- ish Columbia, and they do it in spite of the local MLA trying to demean and put do wn their actual ability to do the job. On reforestation, another comment. Last year we planted a record 276 million trees in the province.

MONDAY, MARCH 10, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 10355 Imagine that. We do reforestation, we do get on the land base, and we will continue to get on the land base. Then there's the member for North Island. We thought we might want to not handle the wood as often as when we transport by water, because every time we touch it, it costs about $4 to $6 a cubic metre. We thought we might want to streamline that process, handle the wood once, make it fair to all, keep the costs in line so that the competitive nature of the coastal forest industry could be there. Hon. R. Neufeld: Jobs. Hon. R.

Coleman: Jobs, futures, investment…. I know the member doesn't like it because it's part of the coast forest action plan, which is enhancing a shift to second growth, which encourages hardwood harvest- ing, which uses innovation to develop markets for hemlock and balsam, which promotes the value-added sector, which supports competitive pulp and paper sector, which improves the viability of first nations tenures, which examines the option to provide land use certainty and streamlines the administrative processes like timber marking. Shocking.

We're doing what we said that the industry asked us to do — and the communities on the coast said you wanted to — about streamlining the way we handle the wood on the coast of British Columbia. So get up and tell your communities you don't sup- port it. It's fine.

You know, we put millions of dollars in FPInnovations, we put millions of dollars into the for- est action plan, and we're going to continue to invest with the value-added sector. [1520] Oh, by the way, all of those initiatives, every single dollar — whether it was the millions to the wood guys on the value-added side, whether it was the money for FPInnovations, whether it was the money to enhance how we manage on the coast, whether it was the $640 million we put into pine beetle….

Oh, by the way, in that dark decade we talked about, all you did was let the beetle kill — invested nothing, did nothing to deal with the beetle. And $650 million is a lot of money that you didn't actually have any interest in saving fo rest-dependent communities with. You know what they did?

They voted against every single dollar for every community, for every plan for economic development, for every single stick of seedling to be planted in the interior and other places of British Columbia; against FPInnovations for innovations for technology and opportunities, against technologies to improve the pulp and paper sector and against other issues with regards to forests. Every single time a dollar or initiative has been brought to this House, those people have voted against it. They don't actually believe in forestry in the prov- ince of British Columbia.

They actually just sit there and say: "Oh, I don't care about China. I don't care be- cause you took FPInnovations and FII under the coast action plan and invested in it. Who cares if the Cana- dian lumber sales to China, mainly from B.C., are up 58 percent by volume and 46 percent by value in first half of 2007?" You wouldn't want to make an investment. You just spend your time with negativity. It's incredible.

This is the opposition that is actu- ally going to — they've already said it — abrogate the softwood lumber deal, and they'd put every sin- gle high-valued cap industry that has value-added stuff in British Columbia ou t of business overnight if they ever did that. So anybody in the forest sector that's adding value to timber in the province better realize this. The NDP do not want you in business. They do not want you to be successful, because they do not believe in standing up for the industry in Brit- ish Columbia.

I find the second reading of these things as inter- esting as I don't find the committee stage, but I also understand that the opposition will want to go through it item by item, and I'm happy to do that. Maybe we can get an opportunity for them to understand the sig- nificant financial, the sign ificant personal commitment to forestry in British Columbia that this government has, which they continue to not support.

I know they will be arguing against anything and everything that will streamline and build opportunity so we can attract the best investment and have a strong future in forestry in the province of British Columbia. With that, I move seco nd reading of Bill 8. Motion approved. Hon. R. Coleman: I move that the bill be referred to the Committee of the Whole House at the next sitting of the House after today. Bill 8, Forests and Range Statutes Amendment Act, 2008, read a second time and referred to a Committee of the Whole House for consideration at the next sitting of the House after today.

Point of Privilege (Reservation of Right) B. Simpson: I rise on a point of privilege. Hon. B. Penner: I'm just waiting to hear if the member is intending to make his point now. Or is he reserving his right to raise it later? B. Simpson: My apologies. I reserve the right to raise a point of privilege. Mr. Speaker: Members, I'll do the recognizing. Member for Cariboo North. B. Simpson: My apologies, Mr. Speaker. I reserve the right to raise a point of privilege. Hon. B. Penner: Thank you for that clarification. I now call second reading of Bill 9, Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Amendment Act, 2008.

10356 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES M ONDAY, MARCH 10, 2008 Second Reading of Bills PREVENTION OF CRUELTY TO ANIMALS AMENDMENT ACT, 2008 Hon. P. Bell: Okay, now it's time for happy bucks. We've got a great-news bill here. I move that Bill 9 now be read a second time. [K. Whittred in the chair.] This bill amends the Prevention of Cruelty to Ani- mals Act. The Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Act establishes the British Columbia Society for the Preven- tion of Cruelty to Animals, the BCSPCA, and gives it the legal authority to assist animals that are in distress or abandoned.

The act also makes it an offence under provincial law to cause or permit an animal to be in distress and provides penalties to persons who neglect to properly care for their animals. [1525] The BCSPCA was first established in 1895. This year marks the 113th year that th e BCSPCA has been of ser- vice to British Columbians. Last week I had

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	H0310pm-04
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	H0310pm 04
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	192b72af54c6dfc512c54af7783f64bef132183c

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