Volume 1 PROVINCE OF NEWFOUNDLAND THIRTY-SEVENTH GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEWFOUNDLAND 1st. Session VERBATIM REPORT THURSDAY, JUNE 3, 1976 Number 77 SPEAKER; THE HONOURABLE GERALD RYAN OTTENHEIMER ,...

June 3, 1976 Tape 3151 PK - 1 The House met at 2:00 P.H. Mr. Speaker in the Chair. MR. SPEAKER: ------ The hon. member for Trinity-Bay de Verde. MR. F. ROWE: --- ---- -· Mr. Speaker, I would like to present a petition on hehalf of 199 residents of the community of Rant's Harbour in the Electoral District of Trinjty-Bay de Verde. Sir, the prayer of the netition is as follows; A petition to the han. House of Assembly, ~~ereas the roads to Custer's Head, Caplin Cove and Meade Gardens in the Town of Hant's Harbour have been upgraded and prepared for pavin~ hy the Department of Highways, and

whereas the paving of said roads has been promised on several ocassions, and

whereas paving equipment will be in the area in the near future to complete paving of other roads, that is, the Northern Point Road in Heart's Content, and the road around the pond in Cavendish,

be it resolved that the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador undertake the paving of said roads during the Summer of 1976. We the undersigned voters of the Community of Rant's Harbour who are all nineteen years of a~e and over do hereby request the government to do evervthing in its power to see that this project is completed. Now, Sir, in speaking in Rupnort of the petition I would like to remind the han. House, Mr. Soeak~r. that the paving of the Custer's Head road in particular Has a promise made in writing, in print, in fact, in the P.C. 's campaign pamphlet.

It was stated quite clearly and quite plainly that the Custer's Head road would he paved by the end of September,l975. Now, S1r, in the district of Trinity- Bay de Verde,September - MR. J. CARTER: Who promised that road would be paved? MR. ROWE: - ----- Well if the han. member wants to know who promised the road to be paved, Sir, it was the then han. Jim Reid,who was a Minister of Crown. Oh, oh! ~~~OWE: Now are we finished, Mr. Speaker? ~·-~IDEOUT: Now is that the reason - why it should not be done?

June 3, 1976 Tape 3151 PK - 2 MR. ROWE: ---- I do not know what the minister is implying, Sir, in his goings on across the way, but the fact of the matter is, Sir, is that the people have been given the distinct impression in writing that that road would have been paved by last September. And I think that this government, this administration 1 should honour the commitment of a former minister of the Crown.

Now since that promise was made, Sir, I checked it out,and the Minister of Transportation will probably confirm this,that although that promise was made there were no tenders called for the paving of that road, neither was there a contract let. So I do not know what the promise was based on. But I still reiterate this simple fact~a previous minister or a late minister of the previous administration, !N_HON. MEMBER: The then minister. MR. ROWE: -- - -- - the then minister did make a commitment to the people of Rant's Harbour to have this road paved. But he has made the supreme sacrifice. MR. _~'"'· :::RY~: __ MR.

ROWE: So, Sir, I - he has probably made the supreme sacrifice - but I ---- would like to hear some support from the Minister of Transportation and Communications with respect to this particular petition, Sir, because the road is out there now ready for pavement, is on the edge of the harbour and of course it is slowly~through rain and wind action and sea action being worn away,eroded away, and if that road is to stay a road some black top has to go on that particular road. It is only about, I think, it is something less than a mile of road. And Mr.

Speaker, I ask that this petition be placed upon the table of the House and referred to the department to which it relates, and I hope that it gets the support of the Minister of Transportation and Communications. MR. SPEAK&l : The bon. member for Fortune-Hermitage. MR. lJ. WINSOR: Mr. Speaker, I would like to support this petition so ably presented by my colleague, the bon. House leader of the Opposition. In view _of the fact that it has been upgraded so long ~

June 3, 1976 Tape 3151 PK - 3 Mr. J. Winsor: paving will save the government a lot of money on repairs and maintenance,!£ they keep it like it is now it is p,oing to be very expensive deal. Mr. Reid kept a good many of his promises,such as Hermitage, and Harbour Breton, They were done. Apparently Rant's Harbour has not been done. And I think they justly deserve this, therefore I support wholeheartedly the petition. Hear, hear~ MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for LaPoile. - -- --- MR. S. A. NEARY: - -- ~ -- --- Mr.

Speaker, before the Minister of Transportation rises in his place to comment on the petition, Sir, I want to support the prayer of the petjtion presented on behalf of 199 residents of Rant's Harbour. He should have made it a round figure and got at least 200 residents there. But I support the petition not for the same reason that the member who presented it in the House gave, Sir, I do not ~hink that was a justifable reason for having the road paved 1 the fact that Mr.

Reid,who went down in defeat, who paid tte supreme sacrifice 1made a promise to the people in that district, Obviously they did not accept his word or his promise because the gentleman was defeated,and he is not here in the House to see that the promise was fullfilled. I would be more inclined, Mr. Speaker, to think that there are other justifications for havinr. that road paved, that the road is probably dusty, it is not adequately maintained, that it is causing a_n~siance in the area. a duAt nuAiRnr.P., "mf'nllr.P., to people who travel in the area it is probably a safety hazard.

I would be more inclined to think that these are the reasons, Sir, for having that road paved and not the fact that Hr. Reid made a promise in the last election. Rvery road that needs to be upgraded and paved and reconstructed in this Province has to stand on its own feet, on its own merits. And that is why, Mr. Speaker, I support the prayer of the petition. And I think the prayer is justified 1 not for the reason the hon. member gave but because the people in the area deserve to have better road conditions. 9V~-7

June 3, 1976 Tape 3151 PK - 4 MR • SPEAKER: ------- The hon. Minister of Transportation and Communications. Mr. Speaker, to say a few words in support of the petition and on the petition, comments on it, I think it is rather unusual,or it is a very poor way to represent people of a district.

When a petition is brought before the Rouse of Assembly of this nature with a justifiable request, if it js a gravel road, a rough gravel road, in fact, all gravel roads in the Province 1 there is a justifiable request for them to be reconstructed and paved, But to olay politics with a request of the people in such a way as to indicate the~ reasons for it to be reconstructed and paved is because a promise was made by a politician in some election campaign who was defeated, that is a very ppor way of hringing forward the needs of the people in that area.

R01~ever I will overlook that point, and I will say that the request of the people from Rant's Harbour will be given the same consideration as hundreds of other people who have brought petitions to this House of Assembly, and passed along to my departaent, and unfortunately there are insufficient funds to do all the work that needs to be done with regards to road work, reconstruction and pRving 1 in any one year, in fact, any two years. But the people of Rant's Harbour will he given the same consideration as thousands of other communities around the Province where there are rough gravel roads. Rear, hear~ MR.

SPEAKER: -- - - -- The han. Leader of the Opposition. RON. E. M. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker, if I may say a word or two in support of the petition which my friend and colleague from Trinity- Bay de Verde (Mr. Rowe) presented, and I think the petition is a very sound request and a very strong request and a very well merited one.

And I do not mind the Minister of Transportation and Communications tryin~ to twist and to distort the member's effort in presenting the petition, but I think it is fair of me to repeat the fact that it is entirely relevant to the point of this petition and to the prayer of the petition to point out that this is not something new for which

· ~ June 3, 1976 Tape 3151 PK - 5 Mr. Roberts: these petitioners are asking, but it is a commitment made by the government of which the hon. gentleman from Bonavista Bay South (Mr. Morgan)is at present a member,or as he would sometimes call it, his government.

June 3, 1976 Tape 3152 IB-1 MR. ROBERTS: ·Mr. Speaker, the point is that this government promised these people who live along the Custer's Read Road in Rant's Harbour this road,and there can be no excuse at all for the Minister of Transportation and Communications not paving that road this Summer. If he does not do it, Mr. Speaker, it is - MR. MORGAN: Not by j:pe minister. MR. ROBERTS: No,it was not promised by the minister, Sir, but the minister has got to learn a very fundamental fact of Cabinet government, that it is not I, as the minister often says, it is we. A Cabinet f~ctions as a group. 'MR. MORGAN : l"r.

Speaker, a point of order. MR. SPEAKER: A point of order. MR. MORGAN : The hon . gentleman, Leader of the Opposition,is now getting involved in debate on the petition which is not allowed under the rules of the House. MR. ROBERTS: To that point of order, Mr. Speaker. I was merely responding to a point made by the hon. gentleman to which I say, Sir, (

a) I am not debating and (

b) if the hon. gentleman raises ~ point,he can be hardly heard to whine and to snivel and to complain when he comes back and says that the gentleman replying to it is debating. If the hen. gentle.an does not intend his points be replied to, Sir, I would sug~est that he not make them. I would suggest furthermore, ~~.

Speaker, in finishing my remarks on this point of order,that the hon. gentleman observe the rules of the House and extend to members on this side the same courtesy which we extend to him, namely, allowing hon. members to speak when they have been recognized by Your Honour without being interrupted by hon. gentlemen opposite. MR, SPEAKER: Order, please! On the point of order, naturally comment is to be restricted to what is asked for in the petition. Along with that certainly the reasons that it is asked for.

One of the references made by the hon. gentleman presenting the petition was his . opinion of a former 9150·

June 3, 1976 Tape 3152 IJ\-2 1-11' • SPEAKF.P: commit~nent. This was co1'l!1lented upon by the bon. minister,and the 1-Jon. minister 1 s col!ll!lents on that are nm• in turn being commented upon. As long as this is related to the request of the petition and not made the subject itself of the cliscour.se,then I do not see that I could rule it out of order. NR. :ROBERTS : 'T'hanl< you, ~r. Speaker. As I was saying for the benefit of the min1ster,commitments are not m~de by ministers, they are made in behalf of a govern~nent.

And he must function, Sir, as a member of the goverrment and whether or not h~ has per~onally, ministerially, offici,lly and in h:ls own flesh and J:lvinp blood and gorgeous clothes mane a com!T'H111ent, :it i~ a commitTT!ent made :in behalf of the povernment by a m~n l·•ho was a member of the government, Mr. James Reid, at th~t time the ~·:ln:lster of J?ural nevelopment. ~'Y friend and colle~gue in presenting the p~t1t:lon quite prop~rJy drew attention to the fact that the povernMent which :Is still in office made this commitment.

All I say, Sir, is that the people in Rant's Harbour. have a right to expect the col'll'l:ltment to he kept. If H ts not kept, it is solely the responsibility of the ~inister of Transportation and Communications and he should resi~ forthwith from the Cabinet if this year ends and that commitment is not kept, Sir. I say if he is a man of political principle and courage, ~r. Speaker, he will clo that. !'IF.. WELLS : To a point of order, Yr. Speaker. I think that suggestions of this sort really are entering into the realm of debate. I think there is no auest:fon about that. MP. PnBERTS: To that po:lnt of order, ~r.

Speaker. I fear I probably did slip over the line into debate. It :f_s hard, Sir, in dealing with the 'J'finister of Transportation and Communications not to slip over the line because, of course, Sir, the minister's conduct demands debate and his refusal to aJlow his estimates to be discussed in the llouse this year prevented \JS fro111 doinp so. But if I may conclude my remarks - }fR. SPRAKER: Order, please! order now made. Order, plea~e! ~here is a point of 975!

June 3, 1976 Tape 3152 MP .• MORGAN: On a point of personal privilege. MR. SPEAKER: I am about to - MR. MORGAN: Mr. Speaker, on a point of personal privilege. IB-3 MR. SPEAKER: As I said I am about to rule on a point of order and I cannot interrupt a ruling on a point of order with anything. A point of privilege the minister can intervene while a point of order is being debated, but not during a ruling. The point of order raised by the hon. ~inister without Portfolio is a valid one and indeed that was conceded by the hon. gentleman with respect to whose remarks the point of order was made.

Certainly further references with respect to the consequences, let us say, of non-paving would be out of order. MR. ROBERTS: May I continue~ MF. MORGAN: ~r. Speaker, on a point of privilege. MR . SPEAKER: 6n a point of privilege, the bon. ~inister of Transportation and Communications. MR. MORGAN : Mr. Speaker, the hon. Leader of the Oppositioa stated that this minister refused to have his estimates brought before the House of Assembly. That is a totally incorrect statement.

The only reason that the estimates of my department were not brought before the Rouse of Assembly is because of the time lapse, the time had elapsed, the time alloted for debatinp: the estimates~and the time was taken up in trivial mattews brought forward by the Leader of the Opposition and his colleagues. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please~ Order, please~ MR. ~ORGAN: That is the only reason. MR. SPEAKER : Order, please~ The hon. gentleman has stated what in his opinion was a point of privilege but there is no matter of privilege involved. ~~. ROBERTS: ~r.

Speaker, if I may conclude my remarks 1 let me say again I support the petition. I believe the people who live along Custer's Head Road in Rant's Harbour make a reasonable request. The road should be paved on its own merits as a road which needs pavement,

·· ~ June 3, 1976 Tape 3152 IR-4 MR. ROBERTS: a road which has sufficient traffic to justify the layin~ of pave~ent. And the roai! shouJ <1 he pave<l as weJl because the government of this Province speaking through the lips of one of their ministers made that solemn commit~ent to the people of Rant's Harbour in a recent election campaign, and the present minister, S:lr, must ensure, the present ¥inister of Transporation, must ensure that the commitment 1s kept or else be exposed as a member of government who (!o not keep their word. I support the petition, S:l.r. MR. SPFAY . .EP: ~. J.

WINSOP: The han. member for Fortune-Hermitage. Mr. Speaker, I beg leave to present a petition on behalf of the people of Gaultois, some 260 of the~ ~Jh:l. ch represents obv:lonsl y just ahont everv person over the age of nineteen years. ~he population i~ fiSO, appro:l<itnRtely. So that woul~ clearly 1n<licate that every ai!ult person has signed this petition. The prayer of this petition js "' h1t complicated and rather Jength1y. I hope, l'!r.

Speaker, the House -.dl l he"r ~r1th me whf1e I try to present it. ''We, the people of r.;m 1 to is are very <lisappointei! over the mishap in 1.rh:lch the ~· .11. llonav1sta struck and cut dol).'t\ the ~. V. North Bay while tied up at it's o•·m wharf resuJtin~-> :In the hoat being ont of serv:l.ce for the Summer months.

We, along with the co!T'l!lun:lty, wish to make clear that this vessel was our only connection with the ~<ainland during stormy Winter nights, always stanclinp by in case of sickness,and was also available for transportation each day to and from Herni tap:e." The real meat of the prayer is that CN have a boat replace the North Bay. "If not CN should

schedule the Marine Sprinter to connect 1vith Rermita~e on the weekends. The ~printer. while fl:oing down the coast eastwarcl ma~es the right connection for the people of Gaul to is to come to Herm.i.tage • Its

schedule is now to arri.ve at Gaultois 9:00 A.M Saturday morninf!:s. However the present

schedule of the Marine Sprinter go1ng up the coast westwar~ is not convenient for weekend travellers. On the present

schedule the Sprinter arrives

June 3, 1976 Tape 3152 IB-5 MR. J. WINSOR: at Gaultois at 3:00P.M. Sunday afternoons. We wish to have this

schedule changed so that the ~arine Sprinter would remain in Hermita~e,or not arrive there until 8:00P.M. Sunday evenings, then cross to Gaultois and remain there for the night instead of Hilltown. This would give the people of Gaultois a better chance to return home for the weekend. "We also propose that the wharf to be notified of CN boats arrival 'in Gaultois one hour in advance, that there be space provided within the freight shed for travellers to place their luggage while waitin~.

We also suggest a wind and rain shelter for travellers while waiting, that CN install a pay telephone on the government wharf in Gaul.tois, that the Marine Sprinter spend at least fifteen minutes in port thus allowing people who have to walk to the wharf carrving luggage ample time to get on board. "We are aware of instances in which Clue to not knowing when to expect the boat and because the boat spent less than five minutes in port travellers have missecl the boat." That is the basic essence of the prayer. There are other proposals listed on this petition which I neeet not read. They all cover this.

I am sure that the department responsible will be able to sort Jt out and will see that these sugr-estions by the people who are certainly lon~ suffering and isolated, the only island I believe in ~!ewfoundland that is so isolated .• I therefore request, Mr. Speaker, that this petition be placed on the table of the Fouse and referred to the department to which it relates. SO~ HON. MEl"BF:RS : Hear, hear!

June 3, 1976 Tape 3153 PK - 1 ~~-SPEAKER~ The hon. Minister of Transoortation and Communications. RON. J. MORGAN: Mr. Speaker, in saying a few words on the petition which seems to be within the realms of jurisdiction of the Federal Government and the CNR's operations, I would be only too pleased to support that petition in that regard in the hope that CNR will chan~e their scheduling in the area to the satisfaction of the residents. Also I would like to point out that I am hoping that the hon. gentleman would request the support of his colleague in Ottawa, the Ron.

Don Jamieson, the M.P. for that area,in the hope that he can use his influence with his colleague,the Minister of Transport,who in turn could influence CN in changing the scheduling in the satisfaction of the residents of the area. ~R. SPEAKER: The hon. member for LaPoile. ------- ~R~~·-A~_~EARY: Mr. Speaker, I would like to support the prayer of the netition.

I understand, I believe, from the prayer of the petition as it was heing read by the hon. gentleman, and I was trying to follow him as closely as I could~ there is really two problems; they would really like to have a replacement for the ~~rth Bay to go back and forth hettJeen Hermitage and Gaul to is every day, and also have Gaultois included in the

schedule of the Marine SDrinter. So I believe - MR. J. WINSOR: Not auite. MR. NEARY: That is notfWell maybe I interpreted what the member said jncorrectly. Hhat they want then is a daily

schedule of the Mar_i:_n.!:_ MR. J. WINSOR: -------- If I may, Sir. The Sprinte2:

schedule does include Gaultois, hut it is not at all convenient. MR. NEARY: I see. Well then maybe I misunderstood the beginning of the prayer of the petition. The member started off by saying that the people regretted that the North Bay ,that had been cut down by the Bon~~ista,had not been replaced. MR. J. WINSOR: The North Bay was owned by Gaultois Fisheries. MR. NEARY: ----- By Gaultois Fisheries, right. And I presume used to operate between Gaultois and Hermitage. I believe, I am not sure if

June 3, 1976 Tape 3153 PK - 2 that is the one I had the pleasure of making a trip on or not. MR. J. WINSOR: No~the Louisa Holt I guess you made a trip on. MR. NEARY: ----- Anyway I did have the privilege of making a trip between Gaultois and Hermitage. But I support the prayer of the petition, Mr. Speaker, As a member who represents ~ Southwpst Coast District I understand the problems and the frustrations of the people in Gaultois. We have it all up and down the Southwest Coast.

And, Sir, I do hope that the minister will do a little ara twisting and put the pressure on Ottawa as well as the suggestion that the minister made to the official old-line Opposition that they may be able to persuade their colleague, the Leader of the Opposition may be able to persuade lir. Jamieson to grant the prayer of the petition. This seems to be very common sense and very justifiable on behalf of the residents of Gaultois. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Burgeo-Bay d'Espoir. MR.~. ~IMMONS: Mr. Speaker, I would like to rise in support of the petition.

The prayer of the petition,if interpreted narrowly, is really addressed to CN in the sense that CN ad.1ust the present

schedule of the ~rinter. If I understand the transportation concerns of the people of Gaultois at all, I would suggest that the overall prayer.is that they have a better daily access to Hermitage than is the case right now. And the Minister of Transportation is right in reminding us to talk to Mr. Jamieson. In turn, Mr. Speaker, we would be right to remind him that had we the ferry between McCallum and Gaultois and Hermitage that was committed three years ago we would not have this petition today. MR. SPEAKER: Are there any further petitions1 The bon. member for Trinity-Bay de Verde. Mr.

Speaker, I beg leave to present a second petition from the same community, and I might add both of the petitions were circulated by the Local Improvement District of Hant's Harbour. Sir, the prayer of this particular petition is; A petition to the hon. House of Assembly;

whereas the commanity of Hant's Harbour 9131

June 3, 1976 Tape 3153 PK - 3 Mr. Rowe: ---- has enjoyed the service of a good water supply system since 1972; and

whereas the availability of such a service has led to the installation of a large number of individual sewer systems which are not practical because of the lack of a good water supply; and

whereas the terrain in most areas of Rant's Harbour is rock1 or boggy, and it makes drainage of such systems very poor and slow; and further

whereas some septic systems already have created health problems and other. are an inevitable health hazard;

be it resolved that the Provincial Government of Newfoundland make funds immediately available for the commencement of the installation of a sewerage disposal system for the community of Rant's Harbour. We the undersigned do strongly support this petition and urge the government to give this matter serious and promrt consideration." Sir, this is signed by 192 residents of the community of Hant's Harbour.

Now, Sir, I realize that the government is strapped for funds this year, and T further realize that there may not be new starts to water and/or sewerar,e systems this year, but rather a continuation of water and/or sewerage systems that are already in progress. In other words, the administration may carry on with some of the second or third phases of water systems or sewerage systems that are already in progress. This is an example, Sir, of a community and a system that is already in progress.

And therefore I would hope that the minister., when he goes through his estimates and when he allots various amounts of money to the various communities throughout the Province for a continuation of work on these various projects,that Rant's Harbour will be one of the communities that will fall into the list that will get money for a continuation of their water and sewerage system. But this petition relates specifically to a sewerage system.

Because Rant's Harbour, Sir, as are many other communities,are becoming virtual cesspools or are becoming very large septic tanks because of the fact that water is running through the homes of these communities and septic tanks are being overloaded, and I know for a fact that the swimming hole 9757

June 3, 1976 Tape 3153 PK- 4 Mr. Rowe: ---- - in the river running through Rant's Harbour is now polluted to the point where the children in Rant's Harbour cannot swim in that community, and this little beach out there called Caplin Cove that is also becoming polluted because of the drainage of sewerage into that particular Cove.

Sir, I sympathize with the minister in trying to grapple with this problem of trying to bring water and sewerage services to the many rural communities that we do have in this Province, but I think Rant's Harbour here is a very industrial community, it is contributing greatly to the economy of this Province through the fish plant there, particularly with respect to the catching and the processing of crab meat in that particular area,and they have a good market system going, and they are contributing significantly to the economy of this Province,and I think the people of Rant's Harbour are deserving of ~etting some assistance from ~overnment in order to get a sewerage system provided in their area.

Just in closing, Sir, in supporting the petition probably I could ask the minister if he would indicate,if he is going to speak to the petition,if he would indicate what progress is being made with respect to new and probably unorthodox methods of taking care of human waste. Of course, we have heard recently of the humus toilet.

I do not know how far experimentation has gone on in that oarticular area, but it seems to me that in many of our communities where we have very bo~gy areas or where we have very cold temperatures or where we have very rocky terrain,the traditional sewerage system is very, very expensive and the humus toilet concept may be the way out to serve the sewerage needs, if I can put it that way, of communities that have a very rocky terrain. So I would appreciate if the minister could relate to that varticular topic if he speaks to this particular petition.

Sir, I give this petition my wholehearted support, and I ask that the petitio~ be placed upon the table of the House and related to the department to which it relates. MR. ROBERTS: It is well petitioned. 9758

June 3, 1976 Tape no. 3154 Page 1 - mw MR. SPEAKER: The han. Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing. MR. PECKFORD: I would like to acknowledge the petition presented by the hon. member for Trinity- Bay de Verde, (Mr. Rowe). All I can say to him,and through him to the people of his area, and particularly and specifically the people of Rant's Harbour ; is that every consideration will be given to the request in line with the budge~ry restraints that everybody knows are in existence.

Now I personally - and I am sort of proud of this fact in one sense - personally know what it is like to want a sewerage system because my home and family in South Brook, Halls Bay, we have our own septic tank, and we have that very problem this present day. So I am pretty familir with places that do not have sewerage systems and, of course, I was bought up in places that did not have them until I was almoat as old, you know, a few years ago.

Thirdly, on the business of alternate ways of serving or facilitating sewerage problems in this Province, specifically the humus toilet, I had meetings with the doctor at the university, Dr, Evans, relating to the humus toilet, and he did a display for us out to the last Federation of Mayors and Municipalities in Corner Brook. MR, DOODY: Did he do a displayi MR. PECKFORD: And I hope my words are not wasted on this topic, because it is a little irrelevant from the petition. But the point is this that Dr.

Evans was pushing this kind of a facility, and after he came in to see me about it, and I had agreed to entertain some experimentation in smaller communities in the Province, it was then brought to my attention by his immediate superior at the university - and after he had also talked to the city of St. John's- that this humus toilet was not ready for large scale experimentation, say, fifty or sixty homes or one hundred homes. So we were to some extent led a 1ittle bit further along in this whole idea.

And so they asked us then, his superior and people at the univeristv, to not go ahead with any programmes based on this facility for another year until more experimentation was done. So that has been held up because of more things that have to be done with experimentation.

June 3, 1976 Tape no. 3154 Pag" 2 - mw !'lr. Peckford. Apparently the whole idea was first envisaged as a facility to be used by Sumqer cabins, Summer cottages, one or two - _!t_!, SMALLWOOD: S1mil:l:ar to che111ical toilets that have been in use for years or not? Ml. PECKFORD: MR. DOODY: MR. SMALLWOOD: MR. PECKFORD: No, no! No, it ia organic. Oraanic. It 18 organic. Dr. Evans has one at his own home here near St. John's, and he has sold some to people who have Summer cott~ges around the Province. But to use it on a large scale in a community - MR. SMALLWOOD: Large acale - you mean, a central organic disposal?

MR. PECKFORD: No, individual. MR. SMALLWOOD: What doea the miniater mean by 1 large !lcalc 1 ? MR. DOODY: One in every house. MR. SIMMONS: Is this year round use as well? MR. PECKFORD: Well this ia what I was coming to. Its year round use,disposal uae, and the firm who ~uilds these thin~s in Scandinava somehwere and in England are working on other ways of trying to make it so that it can be used by an average household MR. SMALLWOOD: MR. PECKFORD: MR. NEARY: MR. MORGAN: MR. PECKJORD: Year round. - for a twelve month period. Can you use the stuff as fertilizer after? It is all burned up. And they were afraid.

It has an electrial current in it as well. So in any case that alternative is still being looked at. And as soon as they are ready to let us go ahead and experiment with it, I shall be approaching my colleagues to have that done. Ma. SMALLWOOD: work out1 MR. PECKFORD: MR. SMALLWOOD: that would be. MR. PECKFORD: Is the minister somewhat hopeful that it might Yes. Because the minister appreciates how important Yes, very definitely.

June 3, 1976 MR. ROBErtS: anticipate any - MR. SMALLWOOD: MR, PECKFORD: Tape no. 3154 Page 3 - mw The hon. minister's colleague does not I do not think it ia a bit funny. No, I do not think so. So I can only say on that other alternatives for sewage disposal are also coming to the fore,as most hon. gentlemen will realize. And to that end we are looking at some larger scale modified septic tank proposals for groups of houses ranging even up to 100. And we are discussing this with environmental officials to see whether we can get such modifications made and still be environmentally acceptable.

In a number of communities we are now negotiating currently on that very issue. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker, the subject of the humus toilet has some humorous aspects, but it also has some serious aspects. Because, of course, as the hon. minister says one of the problems we do face in this Province is the disposal of sewage,or human waste or whatever we want to call it, and if there is some way that we can find some new technology or adapt some new technology, it would be a very great value.

There are many communities in the Province - it has often been mentioned in the House - that there are many, many communities throughout the Province where we co have health hazards or potential health hazards as a result of the improper or inadequate disposal of sewerage, and there are many, many other communities where we might not have a health hazard. we certainlv have an environmental unpleasantness of some considerable dimensions. The costs involved in applying the standard technology are immense.

They are made all the greater because so many of the communities of this Province are founded or built on rocky areas where you have to blast every inch of the t·7ay to get trenches, and in addition so many of our communities are spread out. So the cost per home of servicing is inordinately higher than it would be if the communities were built in grid areas. 97S'l

June 3, 1976 Tape no. 3154 Page 4 - mw MR. PECKFORD: Two big costs now in the last two or three years besides the trenahing per se, the slope in the community giving you so many lift stations and then the sewa~e treatment. MR.

ROBERTS: The minister has given yet another area that has added to the costs and is very much relevant,and that is the need for lift stations and pumping stations given the fact that so many of our communities are hilly or built around harbours and, of course, as well the need for secondary, and in some cases, I understand, even tertiary treatment stations, because we are discharging entirely too much raw sewage into the ocean.

And while the ocean has served us very well for hundreds of years as the ultimate sewage disposal facility, I suppose there is a limit, and certainly in some of our bays and some of our inlets in the harbours that limit is reached. And so, you know, anything that will help technologically should certainly be looked at. I would commend to the minister as well what I understand to be the Soviet experience, and it would be particularly Televant in the case of Makkovik where I understand they put the sewage system in Makkovik using a cut and trench method has cost several million dollars, close to $3 million.

And how many he~mes are there in Makkovik - 150?' MR. PECKFORD: There are 150. MR. STRACHAN: Less. MR. ROBERTS: Less than 150. MR. STRACHAN: There are 120. MR. ROBERTS: Well, Mr. Speaker, that is of the order of $20,000 a home to provide a water and sewage system to that home. You know,that is a staggering cost. I would imagine that many homes in Makkovik could be bought or sold for less than $20,000. That is what it cost us, and most of it, too, paid by Ottawa under the approprite federal/provincial agreement, but still the cost of $20,000 per home.

And there must be many communities on this Island where the cost is $8,000 or $10,000 per home to provide adequate servicing facilities. And, of course, given the fact that these costs are not borne in lot 91~2

June 3, 1976 Tape no. 3154 Page 5 - mw Mr. Roberts. purchase costs,they are borne, in effect, by all the taxpayers of this Province, and not only is that a burden, but, of course, if it cost us - we only have so much money available ~ if it cost us so much to service one area, we cannot service another area. But the point I suggest we might look in the Northern communities is the Soviet technology where I understand they run their utility facilities, water and sewer lines,over the ground in insulated - much like the Utilador concept which we used in the Canadian North. I think we should look at it. Dr.

Paddon in North West River has emassed quite a pile of literature on this, most of it in English, and, you know, translated from the Soviety technical journals, although many of those are published in English as well, because English is the international scientific language. It is certainly something that we should look at. It would apply to parts of the Island. Down in Flowers Cove in my district now we are going to have to heat the water. It has been six feet down, buried six feet in the ground in trenches, it still freezes up.

Now we are looking at moving what amounts to warm water or hot water, or heated water through those mains in an effort to keep them from freezing. And, you know, the costs are becoming just beyond all control: And if there is any way through alternate technology that we can help the people in Hant's Harbour and elsewhere in the Province, we should do so. The humus toilet is certainly, you kn~w, the type of area we might look at. Sure we poke fun at it, but it is not an entirely humorous subject. It may have it humorous aspects. Mr.

Speaker, we should also look at other technology, and I think in particular the Soviet technology. The Soviets have millions and millioas of people living in Siberia, North of any area that is inhabited in Canada, and yet living in conditions that are comparable to most of the areas of Canada. They have managed to do it. Surely to Heavens we, in North America, can manage to do it, and that is particularly in the Northern part of this Island, Sir, and in the coastal or the inland areas for that matter of

Jun.e 3, 1976 Tape no. 3154 Page 6 - 111W ~· RQberts. Labrador where conditions are not dissimilar. We have got to do something. Rlse we will either have to bankrupt or near bankrupt the~icipal Affairs department to do it ,- that is one alternative­ the. other alternative is to do without; either which is unpalatable. The obvious answer is to see if we can find new technology. I support the petition, and I hope the result of all this, Sir, is that my friend from ! .rinty - Bay de Verde (Mr. R~we) can go down to !lant's Harbo11r shortly and inaugurate the new sewage system there.

And I know in that he will hav:e the co-operation and support of the Minister of Muni.cipal Affairs and also his colleague, the Minister of Transportation and Communications,who I am sure would want to make another of his personal inspections of the project. I support this petition, Sir.

June 3, 1976 MR. SPEAKER: MR. MAYNARD: Tape No. 3155 NM- 1 NOTICES OF MOTION: The hon. Minister of Manpower and Indastrial Relations. Mr. Speaker, I give notice I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a l-ill, "An Act To Amend The Newfoundland Teachers (Collective Bargaining) Act, i97 3." Bill No. 87) MR.. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Tourism. MR. HICKEY: Mr. Speaker, I give notice I will on tomorrow introduce a bill, "An Act To Amend The Wild Life Act." (Bill No. 88) MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Finance. MR. DOODY: Mr.

Speaker, I give notice I will on tomorrow ask leave of the House to introduce a bill, "An Act To Amend The Financial Administration Act, 1973)," (Bill No. 91), and also, Sir, to ask leave of the House to introduce

an act. a bill to move the House Into Committee of the Whole to consider certain resolutions in relation to the advancing or ~uaranteeing of certain loans. MR. SPEAKER: MR. MURPHY: The han. Minister of Provincial Affairs and ~nvironment. Mr. Speaker, I give notice I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill, "An Act Respecting The Registration And Regulation Of Consumer Reporting Agencies." (Bill No. sq) MR. SPEAKER: MR. MORGAN: The hon. Minister of Transportation and Communications. Mr.

Speaker, I give notice I will on tomorrow introduce the following bill, "An Act To Amend The Highway Traffic Act." (Bill No. 90) ANS\.ffiRS TO QUESTIONS FOR WHICH NOTICE HAS BEEN GIVEN MR. WELLS: I undertook for the hon. member for Bellevue (Nr. Callan) to coDDIIent on the Placentia stadium matter, I have had the appropriate enquiries made in the department and there is nothing ongoing or nothing active in the department with respect to a stadium at Placentia. One of the first things that must be done is the people :9 76-5'.·

June 3, 1976 Tape No. 3155 NM- 2 MR. WELLS: of the community must apply to the department and then the process, there is an established process,that involves financing, that involves feasibility, that involves all sorts of assessments of the need for the thing. This has not happened as yet and the department has received nothing from the community and really there is little more to report beyond that, Mr. Speaker. MR. MORGAN: Mr. Speaker, I ~eg leave to table the answers to qaestions placed on the Order Pa,ar by the han. gentleman from Twillingate (Mr. Smallwood), question ·no. 436, 443, 441, 439, 438 and 432.

Lofs of information today, a pile of information. MR. SMALLWOOD: I thank the bon, minister and I congratulate him. MR. SPEAKER: Ate t~ere any further answers to questions1 ORAL QUESTIONS: MR. SPEAKER: The bon. Le•der of the Opposition. MR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker, my question would be addressed to the Minister of M&npower,who was in the Chamber a moment or so ago but seems to have ·gone out for a moment or so- no, here he comes.

Well let me ask one of the Minister of Public Works,while the Minister of Manpower is on his way back to his seat, could the minister bring us up to date with respect to the government's negotiations to obtain additional office space? This seems to be causing a lot of comment. The tenders were called last year,were they nott There were saae tenders called for office space, or an 9ffice building, or proposals on an office building or space. the big building, the one that we are all so interested--til, is so badly needed obviously, At least in part, could the minister bring us up to date on that please, Sir? MR.

SPEAKER: The bon. Minister of Public Works and Services.

June 3, 1976 Tape No . 3155 NM- 3 DR. FARRET,L: Mr. Soeaker, we did receive proposals publiclv last year but noching further has been done up to this time. A decision has not been made and when it is made I will be announcing it to the House. MR. ROBERTS: A supplementary. MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary. MR. ROBERTS: Mr.

Speaker, in view of the repeated statements by the members of the government that there is some urgency about acquiring additional space, could the minister tell us when some decision might be expected to be made 1 and 1 am not asking for a day ~ut I am asking for a reasonable time frame indication, partictJ •l arly in light of the fact that these tendel!'s were called a year ago. MR. SPEAKER: DR. FARRELL: The hon. Minister of Public Works and Services. Well, Mr. Speaker, I am glad to say that J will be delighted co make the announcement in due time when the Cabinet decides on what course to take. MR.

DOODY: When you get the dollars. DR. FARREJ.L: When we can find the dollars, MR. ROBERTS: A further supplementarv. MR. SPEAKEP.: The hon. Leader of the Opposition on a further supplementary. MR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker, a further ~upplemantary,and I thank the minister because he is obviously answering questions.

Could the minister tell us whether the prices submitted a Jear ago, and I assume the proposals involved cost, whether those proposals are still valid given the fact that a year has passed and costs have obviously escalated 1 and if they are not valid could the minister tell us whether further proposals will be called or do the government propose to award this contract without calling further tenders? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Public Works and Services.

June 3, 1976 Tape 3156 IB-1 DR. FARRELL: Mr. Speaker, I cannot answer at the moment how valid they are because no further discussions have taken place with the individuals concerned. MR. ROBERTS: In other words,the minister's officials have not gone back to these companies and said, "Are your prices still holding there now?". DR. FARRElL: No, There have been no discussions officially at all at any time since that as far as I know, to my knowledge. As far as the future is concerned,as I have said,this will be discussed. We may indeed go back, you know, to look at this and probably will.

But at this time there is nothing being done in that matter. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Twillingate, MR.. SMALLWOOD: Urgent as it may indeed be that there be more office space for the civil servants, does the minister not agree that there are far more urgent needs for whatever money the government may have in the next year or two or three? DR. FARRELL: Yes,I do agree, Sir, but I think if I could remind the House of some remarks made by the bon. member for LaPoile (Mr.

Neary) yesterday, there are large expenditures of money going out of the Exchequer paying for space all over this city,and a vast quantity of space. I gave some figures yesterday, I mean they were arbitrary, I know. I am not - MR. NEARY: $1.5 million. DR. FARRELL: What I mean,I was giving you just a rough estimate. I can get those - ~. ROBERTS: That is paid in rent now, is it? DR. FARRElL: Yes. I just gave that as rough. I do not know the exact figures. I can get those and the exact amount of space.

Besides the inefficiencies, you know, which I think every member will recognizetwe have even had to put extra offices for ministers who reside outside this building just to facilitate their work. I think myself it is a very urgent matter. Of course my good friend, the 97&~

June 3, 1976 Tape 3156 IB-2 DR. FARREI.L: ~inister of Finance, is mutterinp under his breath there right now, but I would agree that to face this issue eventually is far do~n the road, and so far we can amortize the rents we are paying now into a new buildinr or whatever. ~~ Right. ~ffi. SPEAKFP: The hon. me~ber for LaPoile. "'ll. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I wouln like to direct a question to the ~inist.er of Finance, Sir. Would the Minister of Finance inform the House now just exactly what the situation is regarding negotiations with NAPE. Has there been a complete breakdown in negotiations?

Are negotiations still continuing with Treasury Boarn? Is there a stand-off? Just what is the situation now concerning the ne,:~otiations of the public service employees? ~~. SPEAKRP: The hon. ~:lnister of Finance. MR. J10(1DY: Hr. Speaker, I kind of wonder soll'etimes at the '«•ay the hnn. me!Tlber phrases h:l.s questions, "has there been a complete breakdown in negotiat:lonsl' vou knm•, ~•hich is argumentative and pre-supposes all sorts of terrible th:lngs. No, that is far from the truth. There is a meetinp. this mornin~ between the representatives of NAPE and of Treasurv llo~tn1.

T think they met: at eleven o 'clod·. I ha<l an opportunity at aroun<l one o'clock to chat br1ef1v with some of the negotiators or one of the negotiators on the Treasury Board si.Cie. He i.nd:l cate<l that ner,otiations ~orere proceedinr alonf?: the course. I c:1id not get a chance to find out exactly where thev had arrived in terms of decimal po:lnts or in positions and so on. Rut certainly there has been no breaknown in negotiations that I am aware of.

They did meet this Morn1nJ?:,which is the important factor,and thev are ner,ot1atin~. 1 thjnk that that is ~~at everybody in the House an<l 1n the ~rovince is concerned wjth. There has heen no su~~estion to my knowledge of a breakdown. A complete breakdown, of course, is to my knowledge completely out of the question. of any ~uch suggestjon. ~769 I have not heard

June 3, 1976 Tape 3156 lB-3 ~. NEARY: ~r . Speaker, a supplementary. YP. SPEAKER: A supplementary but before the hon. ~entleman asks a supplementary I would like to draw to the attention of hon. ~mbers of the presence in the gallery of a nurber of school students. They are from Grade VI. There are forty-three of them f't'om Roly Name of Mary, elementary school in ~arystovn accompanied by their teac~erR, ~r~arete B1shop, Elizabeth Collins and Bill Brake. I know that all ~on. members join me in welcomin g these students and their teachers from ~!arystown. SO¥E BON. ~~EPS: Hear, hear! ~. SPEAJ<EP: lAR.

NF.AilY: The hon. memher for LaPoil e. Could the •<inis t~r of Finan ce assur e the Rouse that the Treasury Board are negotiating in good faith and that there has been a counter offer made to NAPE and that the government are not rushin ~ to close th e Fouse because they are expectin~ a strike and they do not want to cross the picket lines? r~n the minister reassure the Rouse th11t this will not happen? ~. SPEAKEP: The bon. ~inister of Finance. ~n:t. llOOTlY: ~·r.

Speaker, as 1 interpreted there nre three questions, one of which i s T reasury Board or government's team method at the bargain i ng tah l e, neRotiatin~ in ~ood faith. 9?70

June 3, 1971i Tap~ 3157 PK - 1 I think that goes without saying, Sir, DR. FARRELL: Always negotiate. MR. DOODY: ----- If there was any suspicion at any time that government or the Treasury Board people were not negotiating in good faith , ! have absolutely no hesitation in saying that the NAPE people, Mr. Locking and his team,would h~ve long Rince left the table. Thev are far more expert in thet sort of area than even the hon. memher with his long history in labour. He has been in labour for quite some time. Th~ second question was - what was the second question? t.rn. NEARY: Did you ever get any counter offers?

MR. DOODY: This is the negotiating process, Sir, and since they were at the table from eleven o'clock on to lunch time, and I understand they are proceeding on this aft e rnoon, there obviously must have been offers and counter offers, and this is as I understand it, not h~vin~ had your bac¥ground, I understand that this is what the negotiating process is all about. And the third question is, are we rushing it through the House in order to get out of here before the strike happens? To my knowledge that has never been considered. I saw that written - ~ !!.0.!:!_ •. ~~ER: What strike?

PREMIER MOORES: \·That strike? - - -- --- -· ~._ng~pY: - in the paner recently. _!~. SMALLWOOD: ~~at strike are you talking about? SONE HON. l'E' !BE'PS : Oh, oh! "1R. DOODY: Yes. Right. Which strike? Where? ~Then? And how? I mean there is a strike, I understand there •mayhave been a strike. You mean the NAPF genenil service people? Do you mean that we ~~ant to close the Rouse down and .panic and rush out of here just onthe off chance that the general service might have to go? No. That auestion 1 I do not know if it really deserves an anst•er. I really think it is a terrible thing to say and to suggest.

It certain!~ is 977.i

June 3, 1971i Tape 3157 PK - 2 not so, Your Honour. We are here to conduct the people's business and this we shall do while the collective bargaining process goes on in the regular manner, To think that we are going to charge through this hon. House and get through this session and the business before it in order to run before the possibility of a strike, you know, is absolutely unthinkable. MR. SPEAKER: --·------ The hon. member for Twillingate. Mr.

Speaker, would the Premier, in view of the fact that we have labour legislation of eighty-one pages and other labour legislation of forty-three pages, and a Flag Bill and a Lottery Bill and the Hawkes Bay Lumber Mill legislation and a resolution on the San_Juan, and a lar&e number of other pieces, a Loan Bill, and the Address in Reply, in view of all of that to come before the House still, can the Premier assure us that there is absolutely no truth in this rumour,that I would call a foul and scandalous rumour,that the government want to get the House closed in the next two, three, or four or fi.ve days?

Does the Premier assure us that the elected members of thi.s House are to have what tlme is needed up to say a fortnight? MR. NOLAN: The middle of September? MR. SMALLWOOD: No. ------- MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Premier. - ------ PREMIER MOORES: Mr. Speaker, first of all,any foul or malicious or unfounded rumours could never be associated with ourselve~, I do not think. But, Sir, havi~g said that I would say right now that as far as the length of time the House is opened is concerned will have nothing to do with any potential pending strike or whether there is a strike or there is not a strike.

The government of the day, Sir, for the benefit of the hon. member for Twillingate (Mr. Smallwood} will be here as long as the Opposition want to go into the depth that they should go into on any or all of these bills. 977~

June 3, 1976 Tape 3157 PK - 3 Hear, hear! MR. SMALLWOOD: Mr. Speaker, if I may ask the Premier just ore supplementary. MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary. The bon. member for Twillingate. MR. SMALLWOOD : And that is does he not realize that when I asked the question I did not have the negotiations that are going on with the civil servants in mind, I did not have that all in mind. Does he appreciate that? PREMIER MOORES: --- -------- Yes, Mr. Speaker, I do.

And as I say we will - some of·bhese bills are of pretty major importance and I th:l.nk to pass them just for the sake of passing them would be wrong and I hope that the Opposition and the government members would both discuss those of ma1or importance, there are some of minor importance, Sir. MR. SMALLWOOD: ----- - -- Hear, hear! PRii:MIER MOORES: Those of major importance should get the discussion that they deserve. MR. SMALLWOOD: Fear, hear! --- - ----· MR. NEARY: ,• A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Windsor-Buchans. MR. NEARY: ------ A supplementary? MR.

SPEAKER: - ----- The hon. gentleman may well have an opportunity later on, but I try to be as equitable as possible in the recognition of bon. members. MR. G. FLIGHT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This question is to the Premier in the absence of the Minister of Mines and Energy.

The Bowater' s Pm•er Company have recently made application to the-or is about to make application to the Public Utilities Board for approval to sell their distribution system plus any power surplus to their needs, to sell this they are going on the market looking for somebody to buy their distribution system plus any power that is or will be surplus to their needs. Would the Premier care to advise the Rouse as to what implications lies in this action for the customers of Bowater's? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Premier. PREMIER MOORES: First of all, 977a

June 3, 1976 Tape 3158 IB-1 PREMIER MOORES ; Mr. Speaker, any application to the Public Utiliti.es Board is made to the Public UtHities Board so that government itself is not directly or even indirectly involved,and that is why the Public Tltilities Board is set up. As far as the detail of what the hon. memher is concerned I will have to take notice of it hecause I am not familiar with it. MR. FLIGHT: A aupplementary, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, :It has been suggested on a number of occasions in this House and in this Province the possibility of nationalizing or buying out Newfoundland Light and Power.

My question is this: Will the government consider having Newfoundland Hydro buy out any distribution system or surplus power from Bowaters to avoid a complete monopoly of the power distribution and production in this Province? MR • SPEAKER: The hon. Premier. PRE~!IER HOOP.ES: I assume from what the hon. member said, Mr. Speaker, that he does not want to have a monopoly in the Newfoundland Light and Power Company, he would rather have a monopoly in Newfoundland Hydro 1~. FLTGPT: At ]east we ~ontrol :lt. PREMIER l-IOOP.ES: The fact is, ~r. Speaker, that through the Public Tltilities Board "'e control it anyvmy.

The people are protected. The fact is, Sir, that there is no intention of spending the peoplJ~ money today to buy any other facilities for the simple reason we do not have this sort of ~oney. I am not saying it is not a good idea in time, I am not sayinp, it · is not a possibility in time,but it is not in the plans of the government to nationalize any other power compan:l es :In the :Immediate future. _!R. SPEAKEP: The hon. member for Conception Bay South. MR. NOLAN: ~r. Speaker, a question for the hon. Minister of Public Works.

If I may be permitted may I say how happy I am and all of us to see him back in the House again by the way, to see that he is well fit and we are delighted to have him here. SOME RON • MEMBERS: "Hear, hear! MP. NOL/oN: tTnlike some people apparently I seem to agree with the hon. minister that there is a need for addit:l .onal office

June 3, 1976 Tape 3158 IB-2 }'11. NOI.AN: space for civil servants. I think f.t :Is shameful that they are scattered all over God's half acre. If a ladv comes in from Rose Blanche to fin<'! some department she cloes not knm·.• where to go, who to see and it is terrible.

The only question I have is 1 one, to what degree are we locked into any k:f.nCis of contracts where we now have office space so that even if you had a new buildinp, tomorrow you w:lll not be pay:fnp; doubly because of some locked in arrangement-· that :Is item one- and secondly, hefore any such contract is awarded for any major amount of square footage for the civil service government offices ,can we he assured that puhl:f c tenders ~rill he callecl? NR. SPF.AKEP: The hon. ~'inister of Publ:l c 1\forks. nR. FARPELL: Well,number one, ~r. Speaker, I want to thank the hon. member for h:ls kind remarks.

Two,most if not all of the leases if I can remember,except one are pretty short term, two, three, at the most five years. I believe there is one ten year lease,on the Vikinr. Building for r-<otor Vehicle reg:fstrat:lon. I am not quite certai.n of that hut I think I am rip.ht. Sometime I check this up. Secondly, as far as any decisions, I have already said we have had publ:lc proposals on this. We have not made any decision on them. I think we will prohahly look at them again anCI be making some statements on them before we make any decision in what d:frect:fon we will go at this time. give at thf.s time.

That f.s the only answer I can YR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for LaPoile (~r. Neary) followed by the hon. member for Eagle ~iver (~r. Strachan) and the hon. member for 'J'erra Nova (Mr. l,ush) • }'11. NEAl'Y: ~r. Speaker, following along the same line of questioning put by my hon. friend, the member for Twillingate n•r. Smallwood) to the hon. the Premier, can the hon. the Premier indicate to the House if before the sess:f.on ends we will be discussing at least three of the major problems facing the people of this Province at the present time, namely, record unemployment, lack of production in this Province 9?75'·

June 3, 1976 Tape 3158 MR. NEARY: and the high cost of livingt Will we have an opportunity? Will the government be brli!g:lng measures · into the House to deal with these three major p.-roblem.s1 MB.. SPEAKER: The bon. the Premier. IB-3 ___!-'REMIER MOOl'ES: Mr. Speaker, to my knowledge that :l.s what we have been doing or should have been doing - since we have been here. MF. SPEAKER: The htm. membe-r for Eagle River. MR. STRACRAN: :1-'r. Speaker, I see my friend -,. the :1-'inister of Tourism is getting ten_ae and amtious waiting for my- quest:f.on.

However my question is to the lfin:ister of Forestry ai)"d Agriculture. But he seems to be absent so maybe the ~inister of' Tou-rism would like to answer it. If he is within hearing - ~!R. ROBR!!.TS: I 111!1 sure the Premier w:l.lJ take it:. ~ .

STRACHAN: I wish to ask the minister, in his absence then the Premier 1 that in view of the serious situat ion with forest fires in thJ s Province - and J unrle-cst:an.rl Labrador is slightly diff erent th:ls yea-c, it is rather wet there at the ~oment - but in view of the serious s:ltuation,an.d possibly it will occur in J,abrador, could he give us some assurance should forest fires break out :In non-commercial t1.mber stands on the Labra~ar coast that they Will be fought th:ls year if the water bombers are available -esther than left burn for a. numher of weeks until they burn themselves out. 9.17-t

June 3, 1976 Tape no. 3159 Page l - mw ~'1'. SPEAKEB : The hem. )4inister of forestry and Agriculture. MP .• ROUSSEAU: I am sorry, but could you repeat the question? MR. STRACHAN: I will r~peat the question. PREMIER MOORES : You are going to get a choice of two ~ms'''ers! MR. STRACHAN: Yes. Are you going to give me the answer the Premier was going to give me? MR • ROllS SEAU: I do not know the question. PREMIER MOORES : Mr.

Speaker, on behalf of the minister, I would like to say that as far as forest fires are concerned that the minister has been in touch with myself and his colleagues in the cabinet, and has expressed verv forcibly the concern of the department~and for all of us, I think, on all sides of the House, everybody in the Province, of the tremendous threat of forest fires right now, particularly on the Island part of the Province, because of the dryness as opposed to Labrador which is not quite in the same position.

There is also the situation whereby in the Island part of the Province most of the forest fires are caused, I would think, by people in the woods at given times 1where in Labrador you have a situation where lightning is probably the prime cause. Bearing this into consideration,the steps that have to be taken on the Island are different than in Labrador.

Certainly, I would assume - and I know I am speaking on behalf of the minister - that where it is necessary, where we have equipment available not being utilized for commercial stands of timber, if there is a non-commerical fire that is a threat of any kind or a hazard of any kind, if there is eqipment available, not at a higher priority, that that equipment would be used to try to curtail the fire itself. I think that is a fair comment. MR. ROUSSEAU: I presume now the member is concerned about Labrador, the fire fighting MR. STRACHAN: Yes, non-commercial stands. Non-commercial stands.

I am not referring to Port Hope Simpson. I was referring to non-commercial stands. MR. ROUSSEAU: You know, a forest fire to us is a forest fire, and we will combat the forest fire as best we can. We have a number of units.

June 3, 1976 Tape no. 3159 Page 2 - mw Mr. Rousseau. And I have the information, but I do not have it here. I will look very quickly. I can inform the member privately or tomorrow publicly on just what we have in Goose Bav. We do not have the water bomber up there yet, because we do not think it is n~cessary. We do not have it in Deer Lake yet, because the season in Western Newfoundland and in Labrador has been ve~y good. It is Central and Eastern Newfoundland whe~e the problems have been encountered thus far.

But we will be having a water bomber and two helicopters and a number of men at Cartwright and Goose Bay, along the coast, to fight these fires.

But a commercial stand or a non-commercial stand, a forest fire is a forest fire, and when there is a fire, even in a community, of course, or outside a community or no matter where it is, of course, we will use all the resources we have and the abilities we have to call on other people, which we have under law to be able to do, that we will fight all fires no matter where they are and no matter whether they are,on commercial or non-commercial land to the best of our ability.

And if the member would like to have more information I will either give it to him privately or in reply to a question previously prompted I "ill do so tomorrow publicly. MR. NOLAN: Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary. MR.

NOLAN: I wonder would the minister be good enough to tell us that since at least "two of the major paper companies - I am thinking about Bowaters and Price and perhaps others - rave substantial timber tracts throughout Newfoundland,to what degree do they contribute to the public purse to look after the situation insofar as the expenses that are to be borne by this Province, primarily, to look after even their own stands, can you give us a dollar figure? And are we getting our just desserts or not? And if not, why not? 917j • ...

June 3,1976 Tape 3159 Page 3- mw MR. SPEAKER: The hon. minister. MR. ROUSSEAU: Well one very minor point first; they do contribute to the Newfoundland Forest Protection Association with a grant as we do for the publicity for people in respect to forest fires, but that is a minor one.

In effect what happens now is that if there is a forest fire in the Province - and the Forest Fire Bill that is now down here, if the hon. member's will notice one little point in it. the word 'Crown lands' is removed and the word 1 woods' is put in so that the government in respect of any forest fire in the Province now becomes responsible, and that is the intent of the new Forest Land Management Taxation policy. Part of that taxation which increases over the next couple of years - it was two years before we could get this thing in - will increase greatly.

Part of that is meant to be part of their contribution of paving for the total cost of the forest fires, although the government will bear the cost directly, day to dav, but part of the money will come back to this Forest Land Management Taxation policy. ~m. NOLAN: Excuse me. But did we not have an arrangement with the companies? I thought that in the previous administration we had an arrangement with the paper companies of $25,000 or something a year. MR. ROUSSEAU: No. There is a complete new system now whereby the amount of money they pay for their Forest Land Management Taxation includes forest fire fighting.

But in the event where either Price or Bowaters start a fire~which we feel is malicious and their fault, we can charge them more. Normally now,the normal thing in a forest fire on company lands, company owned, normally they pay the first three days of the fire, and then we pay the remainder. But tne remainder is not actually a cost to government. It is recovered through their payment in the Forest Land Management Taxation system

June 3, 1976 Tape 3160 IB-1 Mll. ROUSSEAU: in which this is taken into consideration, the cost of fi~hting forest fires, but they will pay the first three days of cost. If indeed they are shown to have directly caused the fire then of course other methods will take precedence there. .J'P. NOLAN : is - If the minister would permit another supplementary, that ~ .• SPEAKER: One supplementary • _MF.

NOLAN: -I am just wondering,although tee minister suggests that they pay in the form because of the taxation, if WP. have a forest fire, God forbid, like we had, say, in 1960 -was it, when we had the bad fire, 1960, 1961? - I am just wondering to what degree the costs involved. My own understanding is that flying these aircraft, water bombers and so on is a heck of an expensive proposition. I am just wondering if in fact the paper companies do pay a fair share or ts the Province really paying the shot in the final analysis.

I mean,to what degree are lve profttinr by it from taxat1on?The same as we do from other people 1 hopefully. MF .• SP~AKEP: The bon. ~inister of Forestry and Agriculture. ~. P.OlTSSEAU: Tlnfortnnl'lte]y for the hon. member I cannot give him the exact figures,but I ,,,ould be prepared tomorrow morning in response to questions previously prompted to give him a complete indication of just where the companies stand iQ respect to forest fires. But,as I say,we feel that we do get our money back as a result of the taxation system, as a result of the fact that they pay the first three days of forest fires.

They bill us, we bill them,and it is a kind of a set-off but we - of course this is a new programme too. It is going to take us a while to find out just what the system is. But I can assure you that it is not government's intention to pay for forest fires. I am sure that most companies would not desire us to have to pay for forest fires in that situation. They are responsible on their own lands. We are responsible on Cro~~ lands. MR • SPEAKER : The hon. member for Terra Nova. MR. LlTSH: A question for the hon. }'inister of Education. In view of

June 3, 1976 Tape 3160 IB-2 MR. Ll'SH: the extreme financial bind in which Newfoundland school boards find themselves with respect to obtainin~ monies for new school construction­ and this view was expressed recently by the Reverend A.B. LeGrow, executive officer of the integrated education committee.

He also went on to forecast a moratorium on new school construction for several years unlPss something happens to relieve the situation- in view of this situation I wonder what plans the Department of Education has to help ease or to help alleviate the desperate situation in which school ho«rds now find themselves in thi!' most important and vital matter? HR. SPEAKER: The bon. M:fnister of Education. MP .. ROUSE: Mr. Speaker, I think ~r. LeGrow was enunciating of course some feelings that have been expressed over the past year.

We have, the government has in the past two or three years projected fundings for school boards up to ten years. I believe it runs from $11 mill:fon this year and escalating I believe in 1984 to Sl6 million. f;o we have had discuss:fons with school boards and of course the DECs and the Federation of School Boards on these matters. HhiJe v.•e lire not doing anything other than what has heen projected for this year, discussions will continue. Hopefully we will he able to do something further another year. ~ee the whole matter i:« that. "e have pro1ected 1they can borrow from banks now for ten and twelve years.

Thev want us to exten~ that power to ~~:o beyond that. Hell we have not none this,but we llre stiJl l'liscussine it. We met with the nenominat:lonal Education Committee about two months ll~o,and it did not seeT!' to us at that particular time.or their presjdent or the r.hairman of nEr.s fe]t that they could continue another year to doing a fair amount of bu1lc:1tnr under our present programme. I think that was in a meet1np between myself and the Preafclent of Treasury Board. So ~r.

Poberts T think is Chairman of the Denominational F.ducation r.ommittee for the intepratecl and it was felt that they can do a fa:lr programme :In the next t'·'O years. But beyond that :It looks pretty doubtful. So we w:fll be continuing

June 3, 1976 Tape 3161) MR . ROUSE: to discuss this problem with them hopefully to come to a good decision about it. ~· SPEAKER: the hen. member for Port au Port followed by the hon. member for T.aPoHe. . !".t .. ROnnER: A ouestjon to the hon. Minister of Social Services . IB-3 Could the minister tell me ~'hat will happen to the homemaker ~roup here in St . John's now thnt hi.s department has taken over their services through the rlay ca re services? ~. SPF-AtER: The hon. Minister of Social Services. ~. RRRTT: It is my understandinf., Mr. Speaker, that t hose who are qualified w:lll be absorbed into the staff .

Some of them will come from our own staff across the Jsland. Other new ones will be hired and in the case of the city of St. John's they w:lll be absorbed ) he hi reel by m; rather than the homemakers as they were before • .9782

June 3, 1976 Tape 3161 PK - 1 Does the minister feel that the service can be adequately maintained when the homemakers group had ten field workers, I believe, whilst my understanding is that the day care service will only have eight, it is reduced to eight under the day care service? The hon. Minister of Social Servtces. MR._§!_E~..:_ MR. BRETT: ··--·--- The homemaker service, you mean, not the day care - MR. HODDER: Ten field Horkers. ----- MR. BRETT: Right. I was not aware that they were to be reduced. My understanding is that there 'vas sufficient money in the budget to cover the necessary number.

And I do not know of any limit, I am sure if there are twenty needed they will be hired because you may need ten this ,yeek, two next week and twenty the next week. And my understanding is that they will be hired aR they are needed. MR. HODDER: ·- - - -- A su~plementary, Mr. Speaker. HR. SPEAKF.R: T will allow one further supplementary. -- - - --- ~IR. HOflDF.R: It is my understandinr. that the homemaker group looked after,pretty well on a full-time basis,some five elderly people, ann it i.s also my understanding that the dnv care service has a dtfferent emphasis.

And I am wondering what lvill happen to the. elderly peonle that the homemakers group are looking after now? MR. SPF.AK.ER: The hon. Minister of Social Services. ----- --·- They ~•:1.11 still be looked after, Mr. Speaker. It will he no different than it was before. MR • . ~_ :_ The hon. member for LaPoile followed bv the hon. member for Rurgeo-Bav d'F.snoir. MR. S. A. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I W0\1ld like to ask the Minister ·-- --------- of Fisheries if when he meets with the hon. Romeo LeBlanc tomor£o~,, if the minister will be registering a strong protest to Mr.

LeBlanc for setting uo the Joint Fisheries Commission over in Halifax and not h!'re in the Province of Newfoundland where it should he? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. ~finister of Fisheries. --------- ~p~~~~TER: Th~ answer, ~r. Speaker, is yes. DR._F~REL~:_ Unqualifiedly. 9783

June 3, 1976 Tape 3161 PK - 2 MR.~~RY: A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: I will alloli>r one further supplementary. MR. NEARY: ------- Would the hon. minister indicate what other topics he will he taking up with Mr. LeBlanc? Will the minister be taking up the matter of the caplin quotas that where - the bilateral agreement that was signed recently in Russia? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Fisheries. ---- --- MR. W. CARTER: ------- Mr. Speaker, we will be discussing that, the matter of bilaterals, the Russian redfish/caplin agreement, and other matters of vital importance to the industry.

SOME RON. MEMBER: --------- Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Burgee-Bay d'Espoir, and time permitting the hon. member for Bellevue. Mr. Speaker, a question for the Premier,following on his announcement of some days ago about government's decision to continue the Department of Rehabilitatton and Recreation. I wonder is the Premier in a position now to indicate when a full-time minister ~~ill be appointed. We have nothing at all against the Acting Minister, but what is the Premier'~ intention in terms of naminF a minister to the Department? And how do you apply? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Premier.

PREMIER MOORES: As soon as possible, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Rellevue. MR . .!i.!__CALLAN: Mr. Speaker, a question for the Minister of Agriculture. I wonder could the minister lay on the table of the Rouse possibly a map and other particulars showing which land is owned by Newfoundland Refining in the Come By Chance area? I ask this question in view of the fact that the town of Come By Chance want to kno~• these tlkings for future planning. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. minister of Forestry and Agriculture. HON. J.

ROUSSEAU: The hon. member is welcome to any information we have, you know, as best we have on it. As I suggested in the House yesterday,there are certain areas where we do not know-it is private land and that - but in respect to Crown land insofar as we are able to do it we will be more than quite happy to do so. 978~

June 3, 1976 Tape 3161 PK - 3 MR. SMALUIOOD: Granted land? MR. ROUilSEAU: ------- Granted land. v1e have some problems, I suggested, and this is why l~e are on our mappin~ programme, we are trying to find out who owns what. But whatever we have is certainly more than available to the hon. member. Nothing specifically on that land? No, but whatever is available. ORDERS OF THE DAY Order 7. Motion, second reading of a bill, "An Act To Establish The Newfoundland And Labrador Youth Commission." ~ . _SPEAKER_:_ The hon. Premier. F~R}ITF.~~OORES: Mr.

Speaker, in introducing this hill~it is one that I have heen involved in for a couple of years, and it is one that I have got a ~reat deal of interest in as such. The success of it rernatns to be seen, and it is going to remain to be seen for, I would think 1 another couple of years. It really is taking a bill establishing a Youth Commission and a Youth Advisory Council to see if the vouth of the Province,who have a great deal to offer in many ways, a;1 d have spoken in many occasions as havinp; a great deal to offer,are prepared to accept the challenge of actually doing it.

The situation, Sir - if I could turn down the balcony out there - the situation, Sir, is that this Act will create a permanent authoritv to involve the youth of this Province in their government, no matter what partv represent~ the people in that government. The fact is, Sir, that in my opin1on youth and elderly people are the two ~roups in this Province that seem to have, both at the same time, if you like, the two ~roups that have a great deal to say and very little vehicle, very little of a means to translate their ideas and their considerations to government.

I think we all as politicians, we all as people p;ive a lot of lip service to these two groups. I do not think we really come to grips with the problems that they both represent. The idea of establishing a Youth Representative Programme for the youth of Newfoundland and Labrador was conceived and encouraged by 9785

June 3, 1976 Tape 3161 PK- 4 Pre.!!!.ier Moores: . the government approximately one and a half years ago, and announced in the Throne Speech of February,l975. It was strongly believed at that time,as it is now,that the youth of the Province should have a voice in decision-makin~ orocess of government, and they should be provided with every opportunity to discuss openly the problems which affect them directly, as well as those social,economic and political issues which are of importance to the Province's future generally.

Furthermore it was felt at that time that some type of agency should be established in order to effectively communicate to government youth's views, their ideas, and their recommendations regarding the issues the~gelves. Now, Mr. Speaker, when we started off last year, as most peoj>le know with the conferences themselves there 1~ere some fifty­ seven held, representing some 2,200 students who showed up at the high school level and 318 at the post secondary level or the district vocational schools in the main.

Now at that time there were six, I think, four vocational schools, the College of Fisheries, and Memorial that were not held. This year the success ratio was not really as great. The high school ones went very well,with an average of some forty to fifty students attending all the high school conferences. The vocational school conferences were not well attended; as a matter of fact, most of them were not in fact even held. I think it was some­ thing like eight out of nineteen that were actually held, which was discouraging,if you like.

But then again something that starts off ~~th a bang like this sort of input the first time around obviously you are going to get a response, the second time around,! think, as illustrated by these figures,show that there was certainly less of a response. There are many things that we have to look at here, should they be held on different days, should they be held at different occasions where it is more convenient~ But I personally, Mr. Speaker, do not think it should be a matter of holding these conferences as a 9V6'6'·

June 3, 1976 Ta!le 3161 PK - 5 Premier Moores: convenience. I think what we are talking about in these conferences if youth are prepared to make sacrifice and make a contribution to their Province then they should also be prepared to make a sacrifice for one day a year to establish and to express their views in the vehicle they have to do it. The next step, Mr. Speaker, was to devise an a~ency which would carefully evaluate the suggestions which youth presented, and to determine which ones could seriously be considered by government in the formulations of its policies and its programmes.

Two aspects of the proposed agency that is bein~ put forward in this bill were ~iven special consideration. Firstly, it was important that the agency be able to pursue any resolution in order to ensure that all of those received from the various p,roup recetve serious study by the appropriate officials of government. Secondly, it was important that the new agency report periodically to the youth of the Province in order to indicate its achievements and that they had made prop,ress.

All of the suggestions and views which were forthcoming from the regional youth conff'.rences <~ere then complied on a prorosal for the establishment of a Ne"rfoundland and Labrador Youth Commission and a Newfoundland and Labrador Youth Advisory Council was formulated. This prorosal was presented to the Hrst Provincial Youth Conference which was held in November,at Ganrler,last year. The proposal was debated by the delegates, and it received their approval and support. And during the past six months the legislation which is now before this hon. House was drafted, revised and it incorporates fully this proposal.

Now, Mr. Speaker, I have very little else to say about this because, I think, the future of this bill, I think the fact that we establish it,is important. I think the future of it depends entirely on the youth themselves. 9787

June 3, 1976 Tape No. 3162 NM - 1 PllEMIER MOORES: The principle~! think,is &ood. We have to see how it works as a government and as a peonle~I suppose, It is not just a pro~ramme for the convenience of youth. What it is is an opportunity for youth that have the impact on our society that they so often profess that they want to have. They should be given the chance. Mr.

Speaker, I think by setting up this mechanism whereby they have a vehicle directly to government, as I say irrespective of what party forms that ~overnment, the fact that they have a vehicle to government is of critical importance to ourselves and to them in the long run and to our Province in the long run. The fact is, Sir, that our youth today,! suppose,are better educated, more open minded, more socially and politically aware that ever before, They are more knowledgeable about provincial and national and even international issues and the problems than those of any generation in our history before.

The fact is also, Sir, that youth have one ability,and a lot of us as we become older do not have, they have the ability to dream and they have the ability to ask for those dreams to become true. There is no perfect mechanism to allow that,but I think the establishment of the Advi~ory Council and the Youth Commission itself will be a step in the right direction to give them the opportunity to put forward those views. SOME HON, MEMBERS : Hear! Hear! ~. SPEAKER: The bon. member for Baie Verte - White Bay. MR. RIDEOUT : Mr. Speaker, I should like to have a word or two to say about this bill.

As one of the youngest mPmbers of the House-l do not know if the youngest,but certainly one of the youngest- · I think the principle of the bill is certainly a ~ood one and on that grounds I think,sneaking for my colleagues,we can certainly support the principle of the bill. In fact,! looked forward to the Youth Commission as a very positive thing and a J very good thing for the youth of this Province and for this Province in general.

June 3, 1976 Tape No. 3162 MR. RIDEOUT: The Premier made referen~e to the last series 6f youth representation conferen~es that were held around the Province only a month or so ago,and I think it was unfortunate that those conferences could actually be termed a failure in some cases when you look at them in terms of attendance. I do not know if that can be blamed or laid in NM- 2 the lap of the youth as su~h.

I attended one of them and the story that I got was that we very much appre~iated the opportunity to attend those conferences last year, we made what we thought were many good recommendations,and especially delegates who attended the provincial conference in Gander last !'all, but we have not seen anything happen as a result of our attending the ~onferences. >1e have not seen anything happen as a rPsult of our participation. Now that could he the key and that might be the thing that this Youth Commission will overcome. I certainly hope it is.

Because I think the youth of this Province, ~ir, are a tremendous resource of this Province. They are educated. They are full of ideas. They are dreamers. They want to take

Part in the future development of this Province and we must p,ive them that opportunitv and not only that but we must listen to them and this bill and the youth conferences that were held last year and this nast Spring have orovi.ed that oonortunity. But we are not going to listen to the youth of this Province unless we challengp them and ;ust setting up a series of youth representation conference and saying come and sit down and let us hear what you have to say that is not enough. We have to challenge the youth.

We have to challenge them in a meaningful way and I would hope that this Youth Commission that this bill sets up, Sir, would not become a paper vehicle. I think that if that happens it is sad. It should not become a paper vehicle. I would hope that it becomes a very vibrant and a very living and vital part of the government process of this Province. t would hope that it would be tapped into and be very conscious of what the youth of this Province thinks. I would hope it would take those ideas 9789.;

June 3, 1976 Tape No. 3162 NM- 3 MR. RIDEOUT: and bring them right to the seat of government, to the Cabinet room and to the various ministers. That is the only way, Sir, that this particular commission is goin~ to do any good. If not I would suspect,and I hope this does not happen, if it becomes .1 ust a paper vehicle I would suspect that the Youth Co11m1ission will follow the same sad consequence of the last series of youth representation programmes that we saw in this Province only a month or so a~o. So, Sir, we support the bill. I think the principle is a good one. And I would hope that it works.

I would hope it becomes a very vital link between the ideas of youth and government in this Province. As I said before the only danger is that it just might be something to look good on paper and not become active. I hope that does not happen. For our part, Sir, we support the bill. MR. SPEAKER (MR. YOUNG): The hon. Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing. MR . PECKFORD: 1 would like to have a few words to sav on the principle of this bill. I believe, Mr. Speaker, that this is a very, very significant move on behalf of government and on behalf of the youth of this Province.

I have been somewhat close to the people who have been involved with these youth conferences. I have attended some of the conferences myself and I spoke to their conference that they had in Gander last November and I know just about all the youth who are involved in this across the Province, personally. I do not know how much attention is going to he given by various members of the House and how much attPntion is going to be given by the media, or how much attention is going to be given by other leaders across this Province.

And it is extremely unfortunate and tragic that in the recent series of meetings that the youth held throughout this Province that the attendance was so low. And I know for my own part, in the district of Green Bay,and particularly in Springdale where the conferences were held, we had on the high school level .. the vocational school level had to be cancelled because of lack of interest, even though 919~

June 3, 197€- Tape No. 3162 W1 - 4 MR. PECKFORD: the proper promotion was done in the school per se - but at the high school level there were twenty-five or thirty - MR. SMALLWOOD: Docs the minister know why? MR. PEC.KFORD: I do not know why. I am going to come to that and give my own views on it. There were twenty-five or thirty from all around the district of Green Bay, only twenty-five or thirty 1 and Mr.

Speaker, of the twenty-five or thirty that were there on tl!at Saturday I think there was only one teacher, one teacher, and the conference was held in the school, in the integrated high school,and that one teacher is a young lady who is one of the spearheads behind this whole movement; one teacher,and I think that is absolutely ridiculous, one teacher out of about I do not know how manv teachers, sixty or seventy teachers or something more than that, in the District of Green Bay and high school teachers there are forty or fifty for sure. There must be that many.

We had at that conference for example, talking about challenging as the member fer Raie Verte -White Bay (Mr. Rideout) pointed out, the challenge -youth have to be challenged and in -r opinion, Mr. Speaker, they are being challenged, everv day that they wake up and listen to what we do or what we do not do as members of the Fouse, the kinds of policies that we are enunciating, whether they are good or bad, the kind of recreation programmes, their own curriculum in their own schools.

There are challenges, numerous challenges being thrown out if you want for want of better phraseology right now, to the youth of this Province which they have to grapple with. There are challenges on a municipal level, on an educational level, on a recreational level. There are all kinds of challenges. What youth have to do now,and that is the challenge, and what I pointed out to the youth last November in Gander, the challenge for the youth now is to consolidate their ·numbers, to get their numbers and to get down 97.!U

June 3, 1976 Tape No. 3162 MR. PECKFORD: to brass tacks in looking at the issues that face this Province, both recreationally, energy wise, every other ways~and present - and this eommission now gives them the vehicle-to present these views directly to government. This is a very historic, significant occasion in the life of this 1rovince and youth have to take up that torch, that only a few of them started a few months ago,and if they do not they are ~oing to fail the challenge that government have now put in their hands. The challenge is made. Here is the challenge, this bill,to the youth. MR. SMALWOOD: MR.

PECKFORD: It is not the government, it is the House. The House, sorry, the House is now throwing NM- 5 out, now giving the youth of this Province, and it is un to the teachers of this Province, the educators of this Province, the municipal councils and mayors of this Province, the doctors of this Province, the lawyers of this Province, the leading citizens in every settlement around here to become involved and that is what bothers me, Mr. Speaker, that there is not enough leadership being - we have enough formally educated teachers in this Province now.

We have enough mature leaders in many of our larger settlements in this Province now. What is needed now is that education to be applied and put to work and to get discussion going, to get dialogue going where it now does not exist. MR. S'!o!ALLWOOD: Ways of dynamics. MR. PECKFORD: So they should automatically now, the law of averages dictates, Mr. Speaker, surely although it does not seem to be the case that throughout the Province now there must be dynamism from individuals in these various communities. There are all kinds of people around now.

Look at any of the muncipalities or settlements around that we all know of where there should be ongoing discussions among the youth. We brought in, Mr. Speaker, out in Springdale, the

June 3, 1 976 Tape No. 3162 NM - 6 MR. PE.CICFORD: 111a.yor of one ~~~t~nicipality to talk about municipal affairs or local government on the local level, inVQbtement, you know, the whole gambit of municipal government gambit of muli.:l.cipal level, the Sergeant of the RCMP detachlilent there to talk about the relationship of law enforcement in the area. Who als.o was there?

There was two o.r three other individuals who were sort of le11.ders in their field in the district and had seminars and discussions on it ~d resolutions coming out of it to be sent to the main body when they meet now annually and it was an extremely fruitful day. It t.ook up the whole day. We argued and we fou!';ht across the table with the youth there to try to h8llllller out seuible and good resolutiona and I cOnsidered it to be verv, very worthwhile and when I was at the annual conference last November, I got therE' • Mr. Speaker, ;tbout three o'clock in. the <tfternoon or four o'clock in the afternooTT 979~.

June 3, 1976 Tape no. 3163 Page 1 - mw Mr. Peckford. to speak that evening after a banquet. I never saw such interest. I walked in on the meeting that they were holding in the main room, and the place was alive with ideas and discussion and argument. It was absolutely fantastic the way the youth - the delegates from all over the Province were there then - were involved in the issues, and really involved. And they had invited various people in at times to give their

interpretation or to give them knowledge on a given subject that they did not have before. So that then when they did have an opinion it was based on something worth-while, regardless of what the opinion was. And the place was electric. It was alive with discussion and debate, worth-while.· And this is the kind of thing that has to continue. If this kind of thing fails, if this fails, you know, it is just as well for us to close the doors. You know, this is what democracy, Mr. Speaker, is all about as far as I am concerned.

This is the essence of democracy, the pure essence of it, and we have given lip service over the past two or three decades all across the Western World to this business of the youth, oh, every kind of a bill that comes up that has any relevance to youth at all, you would say, we have to make sure that our society,that we build a foundation for our youth so that they can come along and take over - and the youth this and the youth that and the youth something else.

Give them lip service to it, and talked about and verbalized about it, and now here is something concrete and tangible on which youth can build, and youth have a very real responsibility to accept this challenge, and to have their parents - it goes right back to the home again, the basic unit of society. It goes right back to the home again, and works it way up- from tlbe home,to the school, to the leaders of communitj:- right up to the House of Assembly, or right across or whatever - I do not want to put us on a pedestal in that sense, but just for the matter of trying to discuss it, and verbalize it.

That is the whole key to it. And it would be a shame, a tragedy of the highest order, and a sad, sad indictment upon our society if three years from now this became nothing. That would be a sad, sad day. I do not

June 3, 1976 Tape no. 3163 Page 2 - mw Mr. Peckford. know if I have written, but I was going to write- I do not know if I have done it yet or not - but it has been in my mind, Mr. Speaker, to write the school principals, because I know most of the teachers there, and indicate to them that I was profoundly, deeply hurt, not disappointed, hurt,that more teachers did not show up at that Youth Conference. And at the same time I would also indicate - MR. HOUSE: Would the minister permit a question? MR. PECKFORD : Yes • MR. HOUSE: I wonder did the youth want a teacher there?

Sometimes because they are so tangled up with teachers 1 most of the time they do not want them there. I know that for a fact in some cases. MR. PECKFORD: Well, I do not think that was true in this case, you know, but if it is that has to be bound together and the only way it can be done is for them to turn up and sit down. and have a discussion and get the things off their chest that they want so they can go on and do something.

I was going to write the principal and indicate to him how hurt I was not to see more teachers involved, you know, And then , talking about because so much is i~rel~vant in the curriculum and all the rest of this. It is all linked and lumped together. Because I am very disappointed as a former teacher and as now a member of this House and as a citizen of this Province that many schools have not gotten into the habit, the very good, worth-while,wholesome habit of sitting down with their students and having discussions on what is going on in this world and in this Province today.

You know,that is a very vital curriculum item. But we can talk about the three attempts that Persia made to defeat Athens in 480 B.C. , in 479 . B.C •• and you got to remember them right! And yet no young man or young woman knows an iota about the energy policy of this Province in whether it is right or wrong, or to contribute towards it. You know, it is absolutely ridiculous. And the responsibility once again - and perhaps through this the youth of the Province can be able to influence government and leaders to become more involved in what goes into the curri .cuium in the schools. 9795-

June 3, 1976 Tape no. 3163 Page 3 - mw Mr. Peckford. That is one good thing that could come out of it. But there are so many things. And the challenges are already there for youth to take up with just a small amount of leadership. MR. WM.MCNEIL: Would the minister permit a question~ MR. PECKFORD : Yes • MR. WM. MCNEIL: Is there a programme or curriculum that we have all from this Youth Commission entered or tested in the schools of community problems~ MR. PECKFORD: I am not .ware of it. MR.

MCNEIL: I know in my area in Stephenville that in the school they have a special course of study, and it is community problems, and it relates to what the minister is saying, and they are getting a lot of feedback, and at the last Youth Conference they had it was very good, because the students were aware, because they received it on a week to week basis. MR. PECKFORD: Yes, I remember something about Stephenville. I think that Stephenville itself - was it not from one of the schools in Stephenville? MR. MCNEIL: Yes. MR.

PECKFORD : There are a number of places, you know, there are some bright spots, but most of it is not too bright. There are a number of bright spots in the Province,as far as I am concerned,where there is a fair amount of work being done in the schools relatine it to the outside world or to the communitv as it now is, the realistic day, but a _lnt of it is not. ~· HOUSE: That is a Grade X programme MR. PECKFORD: It is, is it? MR.HOUSE: In most of the schools. ~· PECKFORD: It is in most of the high schools?

You know, the Grade XI programme that always was there under part of the history course where they talked about current events, which, you know, that was a real laugh. That was a real laugh up until the time that I came out of the schoal system, because

June 3, 1976 Tape no 3163 Page 4 - mw MR. HOUSE: They were all worried about the sixteen per cent. MR. PECKFORD: Yes, they were all worried about the sixteen per cent or how much it was towards the 100 per cent so they would get a pass. And, of course, the course came on there the tail end of the year. And from May to June 15 there was this flurry about getting all the Time Magazines and Telegrams, and all the rest of it and now memorize, will you, the date on which Queen Elizabeth announced ~ or Buckingham Palace announced the birth of a new child to the Queen 1or announced - it was ridiculous!

There was no emphasis on concepts and incorporating it into the curriculum per se so ~hat it became an ongoing process of learning . that was important, and that would be indelibly printed upon the minds of the students so that the y would have a better idea of what was going on in their Province and in their world. It was completely irrelevant and crazy and foolish. It is something that I cannot talk about without getting very emotional.But in any case, Mr. Speaker, this is a very, very excellent piece of legislation one that throws a challenge out to the youth, to the leaders of the Province, to this bon.

House and every member, and I hope that after it has passed which I am sure it will, Mr. Speaker, unanimously by all members , of the House, that we can go on from here, that the youth will become involved, will get assistance from the leaders in their communities so that they can have a real, real impact upon the kind of government poljcy that will be formulated, that affects directly the youth of the Province and even all the citizens of the Province. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Twillingate. MR. SMALLWOOD~ Mr.

Speaker, as one of the younger members of the House, one of my colleagues here is one of the youngest, but I am one of the younger members of the House, I applaud the government's decisi~n to bring this legislation in, and I agree with the purposes that the legislation has in mind.

I am concerned, however, on this question of motivational dynamics in the youth, in the yonng crowd in our Province today, and I wonder frankly, very candidly,! wonder , whether a movement sponsored by this House, and with the authority of this House, then organized by the government, is the most likwly way to attract considerable numbers of young men and women into such a movement as this. I wonder if there is another way, 9797

June 3, 1976 Tape 3164 IB-1 t'R. S}'ALLWOOD: You have now already in the Province a fairly considerable number of youth organizations. You have youth clubs. You have boys clubs. You have various organizations and they are formed by schools. They are formed by churches. They are formed by fraternal societies and they are formed by service cJ uhs. But they do exist. You do not have to create them. They are there now. How would it be :If some movement were made to bring about a federation of existi .ng organizations? You do not have to create them. You do not have to organize them. They are there now.

They are functioning. The Catholic Youth Center was - I assume it still is - a very active - is :It gone? ~- nnonv: In St. John's,you mean? MP. S~•ALLWOOD: Yes. MR. OOODY: Gone this fifteen or ten years. MR. S¥ALLWOon: WelJ,it used to he a magn:lf:lcant body. MR. noonY: I almost got thrown out of there, replaced by Confederation. MR. St'ALLWOOD: Well it deserved to go. Although I remember the House passing every year a grant to the Catholic Youth Center and to the club out in ~itbourne and to an Anglican club. They used to he on denominational lines; maybe they still are.

There is the one on Bell Island, a pretty hefty body. And the Boys' Club up by ¥undy Pond is possibly the most successful youth movement ~re have in the whole Province. I"''R • I"U'RPHY : Just to set the matter straight for the hon. member. The grant for the Catholic youth is not what the hon. member :Is talking about. That was the Catholic Youth Club. It is the Catholic Boys Club in the Knights of Columbus building that the grant wasthe one the hon. member refers to as one for Wabana and the Mundy Pond Boys Club. But I think they are possibly two different things,you know. 1-'R.

S~'ALLHOOn: Can the minister tell me if that hoys' movement is still functioning? til> • ~'!JPPHY : It is still going.

June 3, 1976 Tape 3164 IR-2 }!R. S:t-fALLWOOD: It is? ~· MUFPHY: Yes. Ml. S~IALLWOOD: So some disreputable outfit, so~ fly-by-night outfit that the Minister of Finance helongecl to,that fired him out - ~'!'. MJRPHY: That was more of a social club. }·fR. S!'AI,L\o100D: - that one is gone as it ileservecl to p:o. }!R. NOLAN: A point of orcJer, Mr. Speaker. As a former member with the hon. member opposite who was a member of the orp.anizat:lon to which the hon. mell1ber for Twi]] :l.np:ate (Mr. Smallwood) referred, may I say that the Catholic Youth Cl uh 1ms on Harvey Roan .1ust west of the old Paramount thPatre.

Jnst up fro111 that in a bu:l J rl:l.np: where I believe you have civil servants, welfare and so on esta.b,ished nnP and have been for some years for that !'latter, was a th:fnp c~>.lled the ro-ed Club. ~. DOODY: That was in the YMCA next door. ~~.NOLAN: Yes. So we usecl to snea~, myself, surreptitious because that was - MR. S}~LLWOOn: Where the girls were. }IR. NOLAN: 1vell it is the one where we were - no 0 there were girls :l.n the Catholic Youth Club too. Where do you think we learned to dance? AN HON. :ME'MBER: All we need is a member trainer. MP. NOLAN: So we used - MR. SPEAKER: Order. please!

I feel it :Is not a point of order bnt mC1re of a point of explanatio,n. The hon. member for TwHltngate. ¥R. NOL~~: Oh but :It was not a fly-by-nip:ht organization, Mr. Speaker. I mean it was firmly established. 1-'R. SMALLl~OOD: Especially by night, Mr. Speaker. r-'R • NOLAN : Yes it ,.ras especially by m:l ght. Anyway we used to sneak occasionally up to the Co-ed Club where we ~lways found a very warm and joyous welcome. Ts that now the YY ,you say? }IR. DOODY: It was the YM. 9799

June 3, 1976 Tape 3164 l-'R. NOLAN: Yes. Because I am a member of the Y. f-IR. DOODY: I do not kno~· where they are gone now. Another fly­ by-night outfit. IB-3 MR. NOLAN: But anyway the fly-by-night outfit lasted for quite a while and rlid not have all the facilities that some people have in some organ:lz ·ations today. MR. SPEAKER: The bon. member for Twillingate. Mrn. S¥ALLWOOD: Well, ¥r.

Speaker, let us agree at least on this, that there used to be and there still are in our Prov:lnce a fairly considerable number of clubs and groups of young people, that these have been organized by churches and by other groups. The Boys Club up by Nundy Pond which has a building that must bave cost well over $500,000 or $750,000 with which I th:lnk the Kinsmen Club were the sponsors. 1-'R. NOLAN : Al Clouston started it. MR. SMALLWOOD: Al Clouston was energetic in it. A band of grown-ups got behind it and built a tremendous thing up there. We11 that :Is only one. You have them in Grand Falls.

You have them in Gander. You have them in Corner Brook. You have them jn Buchans I have no doubt and I would guess that you have them in Labrador. All around the Province today there must be, oh, maybe 200 or 300 youth groups now. Would it not be desirable to use those as the fotmdation, build upon that foundation that is already there, that evokes a lot of enthusiasm, gets a lot of help, has a lot of loyalty, gives a lot of loyalty to the organizations that sponsor them.

If somehow they could he federated into a provincial council, if this legislation as it is drafted at the moment does not allow for that to happen would it not be a good idea if an amendment were added to the bill allowing it, permitting it, permit~ing existing organizations of youth to join federally in this youth council that is envisagerl in this legislation here. The first year these conferences were held they were quite successful the Premier tells us. I re~mher reading or ~ear:lng about it at the time and I remember being ouite impressed by it and quite pleased. ISO·o··

June 3, 1976 'l'~pe 3164 "-'~'. S~'ALLWOOTI: Nm.• the second year comes :mrl they "re ~ failure. vP. DOODY: No that is not true. l.Jel J 1'1 rood many are not even held at all and the numbers attencling - ~. HOtTSE: Only in the vocation<ll schools. A 11 the high schools went ahead. ~. SYALLWonn: A1l riJ!:ht. \,Tell then the vocational schools are pretty i:rnportant. There are seventeen or ei!?hteen of there. And the fact thl\t they ~rere a failure there is sip:n:ificant. Of what I do not lmo~· hut sip,nificant without a <louht. 'l'hiR Vf',.r, the second year, was a failure compared with the fi.rst year.

Now it might be assumed that the third year would he even ]m.•er, even more downgrade than the second vear. Would this he because it js Rponsored by the government? Is the p.overnment the r:l?ht one to sponsor a vouU. movement? Will youth he a little too cynical, a little too perhaps sophisticated, a little too blase to be, you kno••, attracted very much to a government organized and a government sponsored movement? I would say that you l'light have the sawe d1fficulty if it were organized by schools. The !'inister of MunicipC!l Affairs expressed a little bit of chagrin that not more teachers attended.

Well the ~':lnister of F.rlucat:lon sa:ld that in a good many cases they prefer, not the teachers but the young crowd prefer that the teachers shall not attend. That makes me wonder whether this movement :If it were s~onsored hy the school authorities, hy the school teachers, would be similiRrly unattractive as ~rhen 1t 1.s sponsored bv the ~overnment. It seems to me that there are two ways anrl only two ways that could create a widespread movement of younp, people. One is for it to grow up spontaneously fro~ the ground up and not be organized from the top down but to be born spontaneously out in the field.

Not·! thAt is not too likely to happen. The other, the second way is to use as a basis, as a foundation, the clubs that are already there. They 9801

June 3, 1<!76 Tape 3164 IB-5 YR . SJo4ALLWOOD: are aJre~dy formed. They ar e already func t Joninr . They Rre all over the Province. They must take in a total of several thousand younr men and women. If some way could he found whereby thev 101ould he nor the recruiting rround but be the constituent bodies wh~ch organized federally would ,ive you a PrQvincewide council. Now the Premier might think about that, think of the valu e of usin~ - when I ~ay usinr now I do not mean i t in a disreputable sense of the word. What wor d could I subs t itute for using?

App roachin~ the already ~xistinr bodi es there are throu ghout the Province with R view - not the ~overnmen t approaching them because that a~ain becomes too offjcial, thRt a~ain

June 3, 1976 Tape 3165 PK - 1 evokes probably suspicion, and a sort of blase sophistication, a certain amount of suspicion. But if only there was someone in the existinP, bodies who would initiate a movement toward federation of those various clubs, I think, the result might astonish us, because there they are , who was it who said it? was it the Premier who said it here today? They are there thousands of young men and women, they are there. We cannot doubt that, they are in the Province here,thousands of them. They are better educated than ~1e were twenty or thirty years ago,. there is no doubt of that.

They are better informed than they ever 1<ere before. They know more than they ever knew before. They are more aware of 1~hat is going on g-enerally in the I•'Orld than they ever were before. They are a pretty blase 1sophisticated crowd. But at the same time they do have a certain suspicious attitude toward grown-ups. They look upon grown-ups as hypocritical, as bluffers, and cheats and deceivers. They do not really look up any more. MR.._~eNF. IL: So they have a just cause, most of them. MR. SMALLWOOD: loTh at? ---------- MR.__MCNEIL :_ I say, most of them are that way.

MR. __ ~~~LWOOD: I.Jell I could not go so far as to agree with the hon. gentleman, to say that most grown-ups are frauds, and cheats, and deceivers, but they are often looked upon that way by the young crowd growing up, and there is enough justification for it to make it pretty awkward and difficult to answer. -The purpose of this hill is good. And the government, I think, are to be complimented for it. But whether this is going about ·it in the. right 1oay is something about which I have some considerable doubt.

As a member of this party 1oe have here one of the youngest members, I do not know whether he or the han. member for Baie Verte (Mr. Rideout) - how old is the bon. member from Baie Verte? }IR. RIDEOUT: Twenty-seven. Twenty-seven. The bon. member fran Carbonear (Mr. R. Moores) is also, I think, twenty-seven. Right? MR. MOORES: - - ---- Twenty-six. 9803

June 3, 1976 Tape 3165 PK - 2 Twenty-six? He has beaten - MR. RIDEOUT: When's vour birthdav? MR.2_MALLWOOD: The youngest member of the House I hope will give his opinions on it, and I hope he will not be too sophisticated and too cynical about it, because if he is he will be very typical of the youth of today, cynical, suspicious and out of love with the ~enerality of the grown-ups. Now I am goin~ to vote for the bill and see what happens. MR._ SPEAKER (MR. YOUNG): The hon. member for Conception Bay South. MR. J. NOLAN: -------· Mr.

Speaker, in reference to the bill - before I start may I say that I am g4ing to vote for it, that is item one. But there are a few observations that I would like to make. There has been some reference made to the cynicism of youth towards grown-ups and so on. Well, of course, the obvious answer as far as I am concerned is, yes,this is true, there is some considerable cynicism. AN RON. MEMBER: --- - ·--- ----- And it works both ways. And it works both ways. But some of it is for a very, very good reason. For example, and I am surprised that the hon. member for Twillin~ate (Mr.

Smallwood) did not make mention of it, you know, can you blame the youth for being cynical? And I say that for this reason; let us go back just a very few years when we had a Royal Conuniss:f.on in this Province on Recreation and Youth headed up by Howie Meeker, and which involved any number of people from all over this Province. It seems to me that if I were a very, very young person today I would take a look at that, and I would take a look and see what recommendations were made and so on, and what, if anything ·: carne out of it in the last say ten years or nine years or ei~ht Jears or whatever it was.

And if nothing came from it, and if there is no exnlanation of any kind from those in positions of authority, then could you blame vouth for being cynical? If you have not had even the grace to say that the recommendations are not lJorth the paper they are written on, how can you expect any respect and any people running forward to participate in what we are proposing now? I mean;that royal commission cost a few dollars~! would suspect, but not all that much.

June 3, 1976 TapP. 3105 PK - 3 Mr. Nolan: ---- Rut nevertheless there were young people involved on a very, very hroad level. And here is a mistake I believe that all politicians, or a lot of nolitictans, governments make, we made it, and I think that the present crcmd are making it - and that is this, that He start off on the wrong foot.

We sometimes say, here is a royal commission or here is a Youth Commission or an Anv1sorv Council and we ~ive kids the impression, we do not mean to do this, thGt look get involved in this and this is ~o1ng to solve many of vour problems. llut here is what haopens, Let me p,ivP you an example; '~e do not exolain to people, not only youpg people but pPople of all. ages,that ~ royal commission or a commission such as you are nm~ proposing is one devised to attempt to bring together the thoughts, the ineas, the energy of a group of people whP-ther they be young or old, young in this narticular case, and out of that Hill come a set of recommendations, suggestions to government, whatever government it may he.

And from that government must decide whether they are going to implement one, two, three, not four, five, six, and seven, but we do not tell people this. We are not honest enough about it. I think we mean it, but the impression is left ~71th the public through the press, and through political sayings - PREMIER MOORES: Thrse conferences will not work? MR. NOLAN: Pardon? Well I am not saying that they will not work. ---- PREMIER MOORES: Did you say the8e conferences, the individual ---~-- --- conferences would not work? Was that not the messa11;e you .iust stated? MR._NOI..AN:_ I -cannot say that, Mr. Premier.

MR. __ S!i_ALU.JOQ_D~_ We are talking of the Royal CoiTUllissi"n we apprinted some years back. MR. DOODY: ----- The Royal Commission on youth. PREMIER MOORES: Oh I see,I am sorry. MR. NOLAN: ------- Yes. I think it is very, very important that at the very outset, and I appreciate the Premier's interjection, maybe that !l805

Tape 3165 PK - 4 Mr. Nolan: _4 ____ _ is exactly what was done. But we must from the very beginning say, look here every suggestion and idea that comes forward out of this may not necessarily be implemented. You must start from that point, because unless you start there many kids are under the impression that whatever they recommend now here is the latest salvation for vouth,and we are wrong. J:!!._P!_CKFORD: Can I make a comment here? MR._ NOLAN: Please. ~._PECKFORD: I was to the annual conference.

First of all, it should be clear that this is what youth,after a lot of conferences, an~ then an annual one,decided was the way to go. They decided it was we, the government saying this is what we are willing to give you as a framework in which you can work. They decided that they wanted to go this route, number one. Number two, throughout the whole conference that I attended, the annual conference, this ~1as abundantlv clear to the youth at the time, they were familiar completely with the ground rules that were being set out. MR. NOLAN: ------ I am very pleased to hear that.

Very pleased! ~~._§~LLWOOp_~ Where they expecting that everything they recommended would be adopted? SOME RON. MEMBERS: No. No. ----- - - ~-R_· PECEQRD_:_ No. It kept coming up time and time again. MR.~LAN: Good! I am delighted to hear that, because I am not just referring to youth in this case, I am talking about if the government tomorrow had a royal commission on anything, I do not care what it is, all too often people believe when the royal commission is brought about that following that, that we are then going to have all the recommendations implemented.

Let me give you an example, and I mentioned it here in the House the other day, the Royal Commission on Food, or the Commission, not the Royal Commission, but the Commission on Food Pr:!.ces in Newfoundland carried out by Mrs. Plumptre sometime ago. A year before the recommendations were brought in we had people saying 980i'

June 3, 1976 Tape 3lfi5 PK - S ~r_. _ ~olan: on broadca sts, on radio, on television , politicAl figu res and the 1 ikP, "Ah, ha !Wait until ~e get this commissio n report . ~Irs. Plumptre and her team Are investigating th e cost of food and so on here in 'lewfoundland: ' But how many of t he recommendations have that commissio n imple mente d? Now mind you two or three ~f the~ re qui re Federal acti on. Do not ever forget that. And perhaps, you kno•.•, there ~hou l d have heen more pressure locally.

Never mind if i t is the Fede ral Governmen t or what ~overnmen t it is 1 maybe t h~y should have hP.en imnlemented to hring about some allevia t ion of the prohlems the people are · facing here in Newfoundland. NoH my advic e to the l"remie r and anyone e l ee who Is i ntereste d is , if vou have not re ad the Roya l Cn!!lllission r eport on Rf'creat ion and You£h take a look at it .

See if there is ao y t hin~ there that is worthwhile . lie cause here is one of the tra ps that , I am afraid. t ha t t his gr ouT' no1•, thJ s latest effo rt mi~ ht ~tet in volv ed in , and you must mal:e this pPrfectlv clear, ~l r. Speake r , Supposing tomorrow you were to p.o into almost any dlstrJ~t in Ne~foundland, I am tal kinr. About a political district, let us take the distric t of, sav, the hon. member for St.

John's Centre (Mr. ~u rphy) ; if vou ~nt ~ hunch of the ki ds together down there nine chances out of t en, ~nd I am certainly sub1ect to correction by the hon . minister , the fi rst t hin g that many of t hem •4ould come forwa rd to is (1) we have nothinft to do; (2) we have nowhere to RO; (3) we need a youth cluh h~re . 9807 .• ~ · ,.. ,..

June 3, 1976 Tape 3166 IB-1 MR. NOL.AN: Now if a youth club is What most of the kids want in every community in Newfoundland, you know from the very beginninp. that that is not what they are going to get right away. So it is just as well to be honest about it and often times it is not always the answer either. But there are so many,as the hon. Minister of Municipal Affairs mentioned, so many challenges to young people who are in this Province, but we have failed to point it out to them of where the challenges are, how they can make the most nf their day.

The bon. minister also referred to the fact that he was somewhat chagrined 1I believe 1 about the fact that there are so many challenges offered daily here in the House of Assembly that they could apply themselves to. I strongly suggest with greatest respect, Mr. Speaker, that as you go beyond Roa~ neluxe you would be surprised at the lack of interest amongst manv people as to whether the House of Assembly is op