Manitoba Hansard — 30 October 2024 (Sitting 80, 43rd Legislature, 1st Session)

43-1-80

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

First Session – Forty-Third Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Tom Lindsey Speaker Vol. LXXVIII No. 80 - 1:30 p.m., Wednesday, October 30, 2024 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Forty-Third Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALTOMARE, Nello, Hon. Transcona NDP ASAGWARA, Uzoma, Hon. Union Station NDP BALCAEN, Wayne Brandon West PC BEREZA, Jeff Portage la Prairie PC BLASHKO, Tyler Lagimodière NDP BRAR, Diljeet Burrows NDP BUSHIE, Ian, Hon. Keewatinook NDP BYRAM, Jodie Agassiz PC CABLE, Renée, Hon. Southdale NDP CHEN, Jennifer Fort Richmond NDP COMPTON, Carla Tuxedo NDP COOK, Kathleen Roblin PC CROSS, Billie Seine River NDP DELA CRUZ, Jelynn Radisson NDP DEVGAN, JD McPhillips NDP EWASKO, Wayne Lac du Bonnet PC FONTAINE, Nahanni, Hon. St.

Johns NDP GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach PC GUENTER, Josh Borderland PC HIEBERT, Carrie Morden-Winkler PC JACKSON, Grant Spruce Woods PC JOHNSON, Derek Interlake-Gimli PC KENNEDY, Nellie Assiniboia NDP KHAN, Obby Fort Whyte PC KINEW, Wab, Hon. Fort Rouge NDP KING, Trevor Lakeside PC KOSTYSHYN, Ron, Hon. Dauphin NDP LAGASSÉ, Bob Dawson Trail PC LAMOUREUX, Cindy Tyndall Park Lib. LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas-Kameesak NDP LINDSEY, Tom, Hon. Flin Flon NDP LOISELLE, Robert St. Boniface NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Malaya, Hon. Notre Dame NDP MOROZ, Mike River Heights NDP MOSES, Jamie, Hon. St.

Vital NDP MOYES, Mike Riel NDP NARTH, Konrad La Vérendrye PC NAYLOR, Lisa, Hon. Wolseley NDP NESBITT, Greg Riding Mountain PC OXENHAM, Logan Kirkfield Park NDP PANKRATZ, David Waverley NDP PERCHOTTE, Richard Selkirk PC PIWNIUK, Doyle Turtle Mountain PC REDHEAD, Eric Thompson NDP SALA, Adrien, Hon. St. James NDP SANDHU, Mintu The Maples NDP SCHMIDT, Tracy, Hon. Rossmere NDP SCHOTT, Rachelle Kildonan-River East NDP SCHULER, Ron Springfield-Ritchot PC SIMARD, Glen, Hon. Brandon East NDP SMITH, Bernadette, Hon. Point Douglas NDP STONE, Lauren Midland PC WASYLIW, Mark Fort Garry Ind.

WHARTON, Jeff Red River North PC WIEBE, Matt, Hon. Concordia NDP WOWCHUK, Rick Swan River PC

3177 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Wednesday, October 30, 2024 The House met at 1:30 p.m. The Speaker: O Eternal and Almighty God, from Whom all power and wisdom come, we are assembled here before Thee to frame such laws as may tend to the welfare and prosperity of our province. Grant, O merciful God, we pray Thee, that we may desire only that which is in accordance with Thy will, and that we may seek it with wisdom, know it with certainty and accomplish it perfectly for the glory and honour of Thy name and for the welfare of all our people. Amen.

We acknowledge we are gathered on Treaty 1 territory and that Manitoba is located on the treaty territories and ancestral lands of the Anishinaabeg, Anishininewuk, Dakota Oyate, Denesuline and Nehethowuk nations. We acknowledge Manitoba is located on the Homeland of the Red River Métis. We acknowledge northern Manitoba includes lands that were and are the ancestral lands of the Inuit. We respect the spirit and intent of treaties and treaty making and remain committed to working in partnership with First Nations, Inuit and Métis people in the spirit of truth, reconciliation and collaboration. Please be seated.

Mrs. Kathleen Cook (Acting Official Op position House Leader): On House busi ness, Hon ourable Speaker. House Business The Speaker: The hon ourable member for Roblin (Mrs. Cook), on House business. Mrs. Cook: I seek leave to allow the Op position House Leader to call Bill 221, The Earlier Screening for Breast Cancer Act, to the meeting of the Standing Committee on Social and Economic Dev elopment being held tonight. The Speaker: Is there leave for the Gov ernment House Leader to call–sorry, for the Opposition House Leader to ask for Bill 221 to be called for com mittee tonight? Some Honourable Members: Agreed.

Some Honourable Members: No. The Speaker: Leave has been denied. * * * MLA Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): Honour- able Speaker, please, could you canvass the House to see if there is leave to withdraw and remove Bill 209, The Provincial Court Amend ment Act (Expanded Training for Judges and Judicial Justices of the Peace), from the Order Paper. The Speaker: Is there leave to withdraw and remove Bill 209, The Provincial Court Amend ment Act (Expanded Training for Judges and Judicial Justices of the Peace), from the Order Paper? Is there leave? [Agreed] Hon.

Nahanni Fontaine (Government House Leader): Honourable Speaker, could you please canvass the House for leave to allow the member for Tyndall Park to second the motions for all stages of Bill 41, The Provincial Court Amendment Act. The Speaker: Is there leave to allow the member for Tyndall Park to second the motions for all stages of Bill 41, The Provincial Court Amendment Act? Is there leave? [Agreed] MLA Lamoureux: Please, could you canvass the House to see if there is leave to expedite consideration of Bill 41, The Provincial Court Amend ment Act, as follows: 1.

At the top of orders of the day today, the House will consider second reading of Bill 41, with the sections of the Committee of Supply that meet in rooms 254 and 255 to sit concurrently to consider departmental Estimates whilst the debate is on - going. The following limited debate provisions will apply: (

a) first, the Minister of Justice may speak up to five minutes; (

b) then a question period of up to 15 minutes may be held in accordance with subrule 137(5); (

c) next, a member from the official opposition may speak for up to five minutes; (

d) lastly, each independent member may speak for up to five minutes; and (

e) the Speaker shall then put the question.

3178 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 30, 2024 2. Once Bill 41 passes second reading, it shall then be referred to the Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development, meeting tonight in room 255. 3. The House shall then resolve into the Chamber

section of the Committee of Supply to consider departmental Estimates. 4. Despite subrules 139(12) and 139(13), at the top of orders of the day tomorrow, October 31, 2024, the House will consider concurrence and third reading of Bill 41, with the sections of the Committee of Supply that meet in rooms 254 and 255 to sit concur rently whilst the debate is on - going. The following limited debate provisions will apply: (

a) first, the Minister of Justice may speak for up to five minutes; (

b) next, a m ember from the official opposition may speak for up to five minutes; (

d) lastly, each independent member may speak for up to five minutes; and (

d) the Speaker shall then put the question. The Speaker: Is there leave for the House to expedite consideration of Bill 41, The Provincial Court Amend- ment Act, as described by the member for Tyndall Park (MLA Lamoureux)? Is there leave? Some Honourable Members: Agreed. Some Honourable Members: No. The Speaker: I hear a no. Leave has been denied. MLA Fontaine: Let's try this again. Can you please canvass the House to see if there is leave to expedite the con sideration of Bill 41, The Provincial Court Amendment Act, as follows: 1.

At the top of orders of the day today, the House will consider second reading of Bill 41, with the sections of the Committee of Supply that meet in rooms 254 and 255 to sit concurrently to consider departmental Estimates whilst the debate is ongoing. The following limited debate provisions will apply: (

a) first, the Minister of Justice may speak up to five minutes; (

b) then a question period of up to 15 minutes may be held in accordance with subrule 137(5); (

c) next, a member from the official opposition may speak for up to five minutes; (

d) lastly, each independent member may speak up to five minutes; and (

e) the Speaker shall then put the question. 2. Once Bill 41 passes second reading, it shall then be referred to the Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development, meeting tonight in room 255. 3. The House shall then resolve into the Chamber

section of the Committee of Supply to consider departmental Estimates. 4. Despite subrules 139(12) and 139(13), at the top of orders of the day tomorrow, October 31, 2024, the House will consider concurrence and third reading of Bill 41, with the sections of the Committee of Supply that meet in rooms 254 and 255 to sit concurrently whilst the debate is going– ongoing. The following is a –limited debate provisions will apply: (

a) first, the Minister of Justice may speak up to five minutes; (

b) next, a m ember from the official opposition may speak up to five minutes; (

d) lastly, each independent member may speak up to five minutes; and (

d) the Speaker shall then put the question. The Speaker: Is there leave for the House to expedite consideration of Bill 41, The Provincial Court Amend- ment Act, as described by the Gov ernment House Leader (MLA Fontaine)? Some Honourable Members: Agreed. An Honourable Member: No. The Speaker: I hear a no. Leave has been denied. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. The Speaker: Order. Order. Order. Order, please. * (13:40)

October 30, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3179 ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 41–The Provincial Court Amendment Act Hon. Matt Wiebe (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I move, seconded by the member for Tyndall Park (MLA Lamoureux), that Bill 41, The Provincial Court Amendment Act, be now read for a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Wiebe: I'm pleased to intro duce Bill 41, The Provincial Court Amendment Act, to the Legislature.

This bill amends The Provincial Court Act to expand the subjects of continuing education for provincial court judge candidates to include intimate partner violence, coercive control in intimate partner and family relationships, and the experience of Indigenous peoples and the 2SLGBTQIA+ community. In addition, the amendments will require judicial justices of the peace candidates to undertake to partici- pate in continuing education or similar specified topics in order to be eligible for appoint ment. It will also ensure that the funding provided for these continuing education seminars does not lapse.

I was to thank my colleague for Tyndall Park for her important work on this legislation. I'm pleased to present the bill to the House for its consideration, and I hope that we can get this moving. Thank you, Honourable Speaker. The Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] Tabling of reports? Ministerial–sorry. Committee reports? Tabling of reports? Ministerial statements? MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Will Gault MLA Nellie Kennedy (Assiniboia): Honourable Speaker, today I rise in the House to honour and recognize an in credible commu nity member and resident of Assiniboia.

Through his own personal story and work, he has proven himself time and time again to be a beacon of light and a symbol of hope for folks who are struggling with addiction and facing hardship and adversity. Will Gault has become a community fixture here in Winnipeg. After struggling with addictions for several years, he made the decision to turn his life around in 2018. Since then, he has worked tirelessly to prove that change is possible, one day at a time. He hopes that by telling his story, he can help folks overcome their own struggles.

In 2018, Will founded and began operating the iconic hot dog cart, Willy Dogs. Together with his wife Courtney, they serve food to help–to people all over the city and try to bring joy and laughter to everyone. They put all of their heart and passion into their work and have donated thousands of dollars to various non-profits and charities across Manitoba. Some of these organizations include the Children's Hospital Foundation, the Never Alone Cancer Foundation and the Bruce Oake Recovery Centre. In the future, Will hopes his legacy will be one of hope, love and passion.

He brings all of these elements into his work and aims to continue inspiring people to give back to their community. It is wonderful to have such a dedicated individual in our community, and I am inspired by his commitment to creating change here in Manitoba. It is wonderful to have –it is my pleasure to have Will in the gallery with us here today. I ask that my colleagues join me in thanking him for the incredible contributions he has made to our community. Laurent Kerbrat Mr. Derek Johnson (Interlake-Gimli): I rise today to honour a remarkable individual whose dedication and service has left a legacy.

A name synonymous with passion, commitment and leadership: Laurent Kerbrat. Laurent had devoted 35 years of his life to volun- teering at the St. Laurent arena, which in 2020 was renamed in his honour. For over three decades, Laurent was the heart and soul of this cherished space, making ice, sharpening skates, fixing equipment and ensuring everything was just right for generations of players, young and old. Laurent's impact on local hockey is immeasurable, and his contributions were rightfully recognized when he received the RBC Local Hockey Leader award.

This award celebrates those who give tirelessly to the sport of hockey, and Laurent has done just that, building not only strong ice, but a strong sense of community.

3180 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 30, 2024 In 2024, Laurent's efforts were further recognized when he was inducted into the Manitoba Hockey Hall of Fame. This honour reflects not only his service to our local rink, but to the spirit of hockey itself. Laurent's dedication to community extended beyond the hockey rink. Laurent served as a councillor for the RM of St. Laurent from 2014 to 2020, provi ding his leadership–proving his leadership extended beyond sports, shaping and guiding the community he loved. Unfortunately, Laurent passed away in 2020, but his legacy most definitely carries on.

I would like to recognize Laurent's family who joins us in the gallery today: his lovely wife Barb, daughters Cindy and Denise and his grandson Scott. Please join me in extending our 'sincerious'–sincerest admiration for an extraordinary leader, a true pillar of our community and a man whose legacy will continue to inspire us all. Thank you, Laurent. Keira's Law MLA Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): I rise this afternoon to provide an update on Keira's Law. On April 3rd, 2024, I had the honour of intro- ducing Bill 209, also known as Keira's Law.

A couple of weeks later, on April 16th, it passed through second reading with support from all sides of the House. I'd like to thank the member from Brandon West for seconding this legislation. Bill 209 went to committee earlier this month on October 10. The lived experiences and testimonies that survivors shared were heart-breaking and moving, and exceptionally telling as to why this legislation is so important. For those who do not know, Keira's Law is about providing judges and judicial justices of the peace with ongoing education on intimate partner violence, coercive control and sexual assault law.

I was so pleased to see the legislation pass through committee, which brings us to today. Honourable Speaker, the NDP government could have brought Bill 209 to a vote and had it implemented before November 7. However, earlier this afternoon, they introduced bill 41 in replacement of Bill 209. The main objective is that Keira's Law be imple- mented as soon as possible, and if the only way this will happen is by the NDP government replacing Bill 209 with bill 41, so be it.

In closing, Honourable Speaker, we need this piece of legislation to suc cessfully pass through this House, at this very late hour, by November 7, and I hope to have the support of all the MLAs for it to pass through. Thank you. Louise Chernetz Mr. Jeff Wharton (Red River North): Honourable Speaker, I rise in the House today to honour Louise Chernetz, a resident of Red River North, for her out - standing contributions to the Parkinson's community both in East St. Paul and in Manitoba. Louise, who has Parkinson's disease, hosted her fourth Parkinson's SuperWalk on September 7 in East St. Paul.

It was the 13th walk that she has participated in. Louise works to raise funds and awareness through her walk, which have helped her in her journey with the disease. The money raised goes to ensuring Manitobans and Canadians do not have to face Parkinson's alone. They are–supported the launch of a Peer-to-Peer Support Program that matches trained volunteer mentors with those living with or caring for someone with Parkinson's.

And furthermore, the funds help improve access to the best possible Parkinson's care, the launch of the CareFinder, with–again, the launch of the CareFinder, a user-friendly online directory that connects people with Parkinson's services based on locations across Canada, led by expert clinicians, researchers to the better understanding to cause and all potential treatments. * (13:50) Louise has referred many newly diagnosed Parkinson patients to the peer program, and she herself has used CareFinder.

Last year, the walkers raised over $5,600, and over the course of 13 years they've raised almost $75,000 for Parkinson Canada. Honourable Speaker, Louise is joining us here today in the gallery with her husband George. I ask my colleagues to recognize Louise Chernetz for her

October 30, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3181 hard work and dedication to the Parkinson's com mu- nity right here in Manitoba. Thank you, Honourable Speaker. Gas Tax Holiday Mr. Mark Wasyliw (Fort Garry): I rise today to address the current government's decision to extend the gas tax holiday, which is not only misguided, but serves as a tax cut that disproportionately benefits the wealthiest among us. A tax system should be designed to support those who need it most, yet this gas tax holiday does the exact opposite.

The reality is is that the majority of the savings are funnelled to high- income earners and corporations, putting working families at a disadvantage. Only 43 per cent of the tax revenue goes to Manitoba drivers, with an average saving of $15 a month, while 57 per cent, or $190 million of this borrowed money, goes to corporations and businesses who are not the ones struggling to make ends meet. It's crucial to recognize that many Manitobans don't own cars. In fact, thousands rely on public transit as their primary means of transportation. Yet, what are we doing for these individuals?

Year after year, transit fees continue to rise, and today, a round trip on the bus costs $7. For many families, this is a significant burden. Instead of investing in accessible public transit, the government chose to extend a tax break that largely bypasses the very people who are dependent on public services. Imagine if we redirected $340 million spent on gas tax holiday to improve public transit. We could provide free transit for everyone in Winnipeg, Brandon, Thompson and Selkirk, truly helping those who need it most.

This investment would not only relieve financial pressure on families, it would also encourage greater use of public transit, reducing traffic and benefiting our environment. We must consider the impact of our overall quality of life. Every dollar spent on effective public services like transit, education and health care, is an investment in our communities. By priorizing a tax holiday for the wealthy, we miss the opportunity to uplift those who are struggling, to invest in our future and to create a fairer, more equitable society. It's time for us to stand up for one Manitoba.

We need a tax system that promotes fairness and invests in the vital services that support our communities. Manitobans deserve better than a temporary tax cut that does little to alleviate their struggles. Introduction of Guests The Speaker: Prior to question period, I have several guests in the gallery that I would like to introduce. I draw the attention of all honourable members to the public gallery, where we have with us today Duane Davison, Scott Phillips and Claude Martin, who are guests of the honourable member for Spruce Woods (Mr. Jackson). On behalf of all honourable members, we welcome you here today.

Further, I would like to draw the attention of all honourable members to the public gallery, where we have with us today former MLA for Logan, Flor Marcelino, and sports medallist Jastin Manalo and his parents, who are guests of the hon ourable members for Brandon East (Mr. Simard) and Notre Dame (MLA Marcelino). Behalf of all hon ourable members, we welcome you here today.

Further, I would like to draw the attention of all honourable members to the public gallery, where we have with us today the Manitoba branch of young politicians Canada, and they are the guests of the hon- ourable member for Seine River (MLA Cross). On behalf of all honourable members, we welcome you here today. I would also like to draw the attention of all hon- ourable members to the public gallery, where we have with us today former MLA for La Vérendrye, Dennis Smook. On behalf of all honourable members, we welcome you here today.

And I would like to draw the attention of all hon- ourable members to the public gallery, where we have with us today Louise Chernetz and George Chernetz, who are guests of the honourable member for Red River North (Mr. Wharton). And we welcome you here today on behalf of all honourable members.

3182 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 30, 2024 ORAL QUESTIONS Bills in BITSA Legislation Public Consultation Concerns Mr. Wayne Ewasko (Leader of the Official Opposition): I welcome our former colleagues Dennis Smook and, of course, Flor Marcelino to the gallery, who's joined us today, as well. Honourable Speaker, the NDP is not being trans- parent or giving Manitobans a voice. They are instead ramming through five bills, with no trans parency, stapled on the back of the BITSA bill. Can I ask the Premier: Why is he doing that? Hon. Wab Kinew (Premier): Well, I'd like to welcome Mr.

Dennis Smook and Flor Marcelino back to the Manitoba Legislature. It's great to see you again. The reason why we're passing our legis lative agenda is because we were elected by the people of Manitoba to help with making life more affordable, to fix health care and to clean up the mess caused by the Progressive Conservatives under Heather Stefanson. Now, of course, we're doing many, many things in this year's budget bill, some of them which have put money back in the pocket of people like you are cuts to the gas tax, which I'll remind the member opposite that he voted against.

So I'm not sure what the PCs stand for today, but it certainly isn't lower taxes. On this side of the House, we're making your life more affordable, we're fixing health care, we're working for you. The Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Ewasko: Honourable Speaker, the Premier did not run on ramming five bills through and taking away the voice of all Manitobans on some im portant legis- lation. And what happened, Honour able Speaker?

The reason why they ended up having to staple these five bills on the back of BITSA, and the Premier knows this, is because of the disorganization and the missing-deadline House–Government House Leader (MLA Fontaine) who is too busy going on New York trips as opposed to representing Manitobans. So I will ask the Premier: Can he confirm or deny that's actually the reason for ramming through these pieces of legislation on Manitobans and taking away their voices? Mr. Kinew: Well, I can confirm that it's the member opposite trying to take away the voice of you, the voting public in Manitoba.

On October 3 of last year, you showed the Progressive Conservatives the door, and with good reason. That divisive, hateful campaign is some thing that PC leadership candidates are running away from, even as they try to lead that party. One of the candidates, for instance, says, there's a spring cleaning that needs to happen before Manitoba trusts us again with government. This is a direct quote: I'm not disloyal but I'm also not stupid. I want to change the party. We need to throw the garbage out where the garbage is–in the garbage can. End quote.

So I'd ask the member opposite: Does he agree with this PC leadership candidate about the requirement to put the garbage in the garbage can? [interjection] The Speaker: Order, please. Order, please. Order, please. I would ask the First Minister if he's quoting from a public–or a private document, if he could table it. Mr. Kinew: A quote from the Western Standard, a public media publication. So if I do need to table it, I'd be happy to get the subsequent copies brought in. But, again, this is publicly reported on a main–or, on a media outlet. The Speaker: I thank the First Minister for clarifying that.

He doesn't need to table it. Mr. Ewasko: The only garbage that we're trying to throw out and hold them to account is this NDP Premier, who continuously puts misinformation on the record, Honour able Speaker. I'm not sure if he's doing it on purpose or he's just doing it deliberately. Honourable Speaker, will the Premier stand in his place today, come clean and just tell Manitobans why he doesn't want them to come into the Legislature and discuss at com mittee these bills that he has stapled five of them on the back of the BITSA bill? Mr.

Kinew: First of all, I have to put on the record that our Government House Leader is doing an amazing job and so she has our full support. And I can only surmise that the frustration we hear on a given day is because they are con sistently being outmanoeuvred by the member for St. Johns (MLA Fontaine). Now, we know that the members opposite con- tinuously look to their front bench and they can't wait for this period of PC leadership to be over.

October 30, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3183 * (14:00) So they are confronted with a choice. On the one hand, they could vote for the leadership candidate who wants to change the party –direct quote: We need to throw the garbage out where the garbage is , in the garbage can, end quote–or they can go with the other option in their leadership contest who disagrees with that and, in fact, says that that is, quote unquote, really dangerous language. End quote. So I would put it to the members opposite: Do they want to put the garbage in the garbage can, or are they going to go with the other guy?

The Speaker: Order, please. I would just caution members that if they've suggested someone has deliberately put misinformation, that that's bordering on becoming unparliamentary. So just caution in how you use your words and how you choose your words. Mr. Ewasko: I will, Honourable Speaker. Thank you for that guidance, your time. Basic Personal Income Tax Amount Two-Hundred Thousand Dollar Threshold Mrs. Lauren Stone (Midland): Honourable Speaker, earlier this week, this minister was unable to answer some very basic questions about his budget.

By be–by creating a $200,000 threshold to claw back the basic personal amount, he has brought attacks on doctors, engineers and small busi ness owners, all jobs that we're not only trying to keep in Manitoba, but recruit from other jurisdictions. So I'll ask the minister again this very simple question: How did he come up with a $200,000 threshold to start clawing back the basic personal amount? Hon. Wab Kinew (Premier): Well, we know that Manitobans have been struggling during this period of high inflation and high interest rates.

We know that the way that we can help Manitobans directly is by putting money back in your hand, ensuring that you can keep it in your pockets and you can spend it on the people that you love, the people that you care about. That's why on January 1 of this year, we cut the provincial fuel tax, and we brought it to zero. On the other side of the House, not only did they charge this fuel tax every single day, even when inflation hit record numbers; they voted against this tax relief measure just on Monday night when they had the oppor tunity to stand with you, the people of Manitoba, and save you money.

But that's okay. They don't have the numbers to stop this im portant legis- lative change. We're moving ahead with our agenda, which is to save you money, to fix health care and to fix Manitoba's future after years of PC neglect. The Speaker: The honourable member for Midland, on a supplementary question. Mrs. Stone: The Premier has no clue how they came up with this $200,000 amount.

From my own quick research on public disclosure for Southern Health, registered nurses, LPNs, salaried physicians, medical specialists, Manitoba Hydro operating technicians, senior diesel technicians, protection tech- nicians, all making above $200,000. These are Manitobans that the minister is targeting and taxing. So I'll give the minister another very simple ques- tion: How many Manitobans earn an income of over $200,000 that will be impacted by his tax grabs? Mr.

Kinew: We know that another of the major economic failures of the former PC govern ment was to listen to you, the people of Manitoba, who want to hear a cohesive vision about how we're going to create jobs, how we're going to build the future economy and how are we going to create a province that our kids want to stay in and build their lives in. And so we're taking important steps to ensure that affordability measures such as the cut to the provincial gas tax are helping you right now. But at the same time, we're investing in the economic opportunities of the future.

I was very pleased to see in the Winnipeg Free Press this week an

article that said, and I quote: The Kinew government has made it clear it is prepared to do what it takes to encourage economic growth in Manitoba, end quote. Again, that is an important review to hear one year into government. But I would say this: our team, under the leader - ship of our wonderful Finance Minister, has shown that we can accomplish a whole lot working with you, the great people of this province, and the only thing that we're committing to today that the PCs oppose is the ability to keep working together for a br ighter future for all our kids. The Speaker: Member's time has expired. The honourable member for Midland, on a final supplementary question.

3184 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 30, 2024 Mrs. Stone: This Premier has no clue how to grow the economy. The best way to do that is to ensure that we are tax-competitive with other jurisdictions. I've now heard that he has no clue how he came up with $200,000 income threshold. He has no clue how many Manitobans he has now impacted with this tax grab. The minister has put Manitoba at a competitive tax disadvantage and a labour disadvantage compared to our other neighbouring provinces. These are people that we're not only trying to keep in Manitoba, but also recruit from other jurisdictions.

Either the minister is hiding these numbers or he has no clue what they are. So why has he tried to not disclose these numbers to Manitobans is how many Manitobans his tax grabs are impacting. Mr. Kinew: The way you grow an economy is by creating jobs. And that's what this team is doing. Five thousand more jobs created last month, hundreds of more jobs created in Transcona. I'll table the article, so that the member opposite can view some of the background information that was shared.

Again, you'll see a contrast in approaches between how we're growing the economy and creating good blue-collar jobs and what they did to make businesses uncompetitive. That

article shows out that in addition to provi - ding a financial incentive to help create new jobs at NFI Group, we're also doing away with the huge interest payments that Heather Stefanson put on to this homegrown Manitoba success story. They wanted to make it harder for businesses to compete by charging high interest rates. We're saying no. We want to invest in you, the blue-collar, the hard-working people who get up each and every day. We're on your side; they keep standing up against you. Seniors in Manitoba Program Funding Mr.

Derek Johnson (Interlake-Gimli): We are well aware that the department of Seniors and Long-Term Care was a resounding success. Comprehensive senior strategy was formulated and there's a clear path to better care, a better standard of living and greater respect for seniors and those living in long-term care. The NDP have not only eliminated that de part- ment, but they have drastically cut funding for seniors. From our budget of $93 million in '23 -24 under the PCs to $39 million under the NDP. How can the minister justify this $54-million cut to Manitoba seniors? Hon.

Uzoma Asagwara (Minister of Health, Seniors and Long-Term Care): Honourable Speaker, on this side of the House we care deeply about seniors across this province. We care deeply about seniors being pro- tected. We care deeply about seniors having housing. We care deeply about seniors having their needs met. That is an approach and a value that didn't exist for seven and a half years, under the previous govern- ment. Under the previous govern ment, seniors lost personal-care-home beds; hundreds of them. Under the previous govern ment, they lost the people at the bedside who provided care to them each and every day.

Under the previous government, seniors were not protected when allegations of abuse came forward. We'll take no lessons from that side of the House. On this side we're going to continue to do the work on behalf of seniors across Manitoba. The Speaker: The honourable member for Gimli - Interlake, on a supplementary question. Mr. Johnson: The only thing deep from the NDP is cuts. Just two days ago, the Minister of Finance (MLA Sala) informed this House that the NDP were now only spending $21.8 million on seniors and long- term care.

The minister attempted to put this in posi- tive terms, but the fact remains that seniors are getting less money and less respect under the NDP. I'll save the minister some time in formulating their answer. The seniors home modification grant program and the seniors hearing aid program were PC programs. What is the real budget for seniors and long-term care, because the Finance Minister is saying it's a $72-million cut? MLA Asagwara: Honourable Speaker, let's talk about the PC record when it comes to seniors. A net loss of over 200 personal-care-home beds from across the province.

Hundreds of the health-care workers they count on cut and forced out of the health-care system. Allegations of abuse against seniors dating back to 2019 went unaddressed, ignored by every single member opposite, on that side of the House. On this side of the House, Honour able Speaker, we respect seniors. We champion seniors. And we make invest - ments so they can live in a dignified manner in our province. That is the work we're committed to doing. It's the work we're going to continue to do. The Speaker: The honourable member for Gimli - Interlake, on a supplementary question.

October 30, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3185 Mr. Johnson: We all agree that any properly funded and executed program designed to benefit Manitoba seniors is a good thing. Since the seniors advocate act was added on to BITSA as an afterthought, I'm con- cerned that the NDP has not done their due diligent – due diligence in giving it the careful thought and planning it requires. The minister couldn't give me a direct answer as to the operating budget for the seniors advocate, but I can save them some time and I will table that today.

It is $500,000. * (14:10) Does the minister truly believe that $500,000 is enough to effectively 'protrect' the interest of seniors after a $54-million cut, or is it a $72-million cut? MLA Asagwara: Honourable Speaker, the only people in this Chamber for whom the seniors advocate is an afterthought are the members opposite, who stood up in this House and didn't allow for that legislation to be introduced in front of seniors who are here in the gallery on that very day. These are the same members who have never advocated for a seniors advocate.

These are the same members who won't sit down with seniors to talk about their needs. These are the same PC caucus mem- bers under the failed leadership of Heather Stefanson, who did damage to the care seniors depend on. On this side of the House, we'll keep fighting for seniors and their families each and every day across our province, no matter what members opposite's track record encourages them to do right now. Labour Bills in BITSA Legislation Public Consultation Concerns Ms.

Jodie Byram (Agassiz): There was a lot of labour legislation tacked on the end of the BITSA bill, all of which should have been a stand- alone bill and gone to committee for public input. Can the minister share with us here who was initially consulted in the begin ning of this labour legislation? Hon. Malaya Marcelino (Minister of Labour and Immigration): You know, on this side of the House, we're proud to stand with workers across the province, 365 days a year.

Finally, we've got a govern ment in that's here to support workers, make sure their rights and protec tions are at forefront and centre and also especially with their safety and health. Thank you. The Speaker: The honourable member for Agassiz, on a supplementary question. Ms. Byram: If consultation was done in the beginning of this legislation process, there wouldn't have been so many amendments pushed through in the last minute. The changes to this bill needed public input, and this government failed to allow for transparency and input for Manitobans.

So I ask the minister: Why were there so many amendments made to their own bill? MLA Marcelino: The legislation that we are putting forth is historic legis lation for workers across this province. Never before have we seen this type of movement on behalf of workers in this province since the gains made from the 1919 General Strike. This is–I am so proud of the work that we're doing here as a government on behalf of workers across this province, and–this is just the begin ning, we're going to continue doing this im portant work for everybody in this province. Thank you, Honourable Speaker.

The Speaker: The honourable member for Agassiz, on a final supplementary question. Ms. Byram: Before the Gov ernment House Leader (MLA Fontaine) lost track of time and needed to staple this bill to BITSA to get it through the House, we all saw who this minister was consulting with. She has a press conference with the Canadian Labour Congress to discuss details of this bill. She didn't do the same with open-shot contractors because this government is picking winners and losers. They've even said as much. Why did this minister force through a bill that will impact Manitobans' livelihood without public com - mittee?

MLA Marcelino: Let's take a look at the PC record: their last seven and a half years, what was it like for workers across Manitoba? They took out the workers' safety and health advisory council. We are behind on types of workers' safety and health as it relates to asbestos, silica, personal protective equipment. Workers opposite–members opposite thought that that was red tape. On this side of the House, we care about the workers' safety and health rights and protections, and we're going to fight for that every single day that we are here in government.

3186 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 30, 2024 Fuel Tax Rate Increase Concern for Agriculture Sector MLA Jeff Bereza (Portage la Prairie): Honourable Speaker, this week, this minister and his entire gov - ernment showed their lack of respect for farmers and all Manitobans loud and clear. This government gave themselves the power to change fuel tax at the Cabinet table. This Minister of Agricul ture d idn't stand up against Greg Selinger's PST hike. Why should farmers think he'll stand up against the coming gas tax? [interjection] The Speaker: Order. Hon.

Ron Kostyshyn (Minister of Agriculture): Thank you for the question from the MLA from Portage. I've been waiting for so long to finally get asked an agri - culture question. Let me say to the farmers that take yearly chal - lenges of putting the crop together, bringing beef to the tables, to all agricul ture sectors: I'd like to see a show of response and appreciation for our agriculture producers from the farms of Manitoba.

I'm really surprised that the member who asked the question, or the members opposite, didn't even stand up and showed any show of appreciation for the agriculture producers that take chances every year to bring food to our tables and for the people of the province of Manitoba. I really– The Speaker: Member's time has expired. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. The Speaker: Order, please. Order, please. Order, please. The government bench needs to calm down a little.

MLA Bereza: We can't let this minister rewrite history, Honourable Speaker, con sidering it took com mittee meetings and Manitobans speaking up to get farmers included in this bill. Now producers are scared. What reassurances can this Ag Minister give our ag sector that gas tax won't go up, consid ering he couldn't even get agriculture included in the first draft of the fuel tax holiday legislation? Mr. Kostyshyn: I'd like to thank the member opposite asking the questions. In the gallery today, we have three representatives that represent a fairly large area in the western part of our province.

And we want to talk about the importance of cost saving that this govern ment–that government there chose to close 20- some-odd offices with the MASC organization. And they don't want to be held responsible when we want to talk about cost saving for our agri culture producers, that they have to travel numer ous more miles, some be –odd decision that was made by that government. Maybe that's why they've been encouraging the gas tax, because they were trying to make the benefit of their decision; our govern ment had to cor - rect for them. That is a sad situation– The Speaker: Member's time has expired.

MLA Bereza: Honourable Speaker, I think the minis- ter thought that we were talking about how far people had to go for an MRI. Farmers are running their operations on razor-thin margins. While a couple of cents a litre might mean nothing to this minister, a couple cents a litre to a farm operation buying in bulk can be the difference in profit and loss. Can the minister at least commit to giving farmers a five-year exemption before his government jacks up taxes? Or is his loyalty to his party and not to our fellow producers? Mr. Kostyshyn: It is–[interjection] The Speaker: Order, please.

The honourable First Minister and the Minister of Justice (Mr. Wiebe), please come to order. Mr. Kostyshyn: It is quite ironic that we talk about decisions that we're somewhat being accused of. Crown lands: let's get into it. Let's get into it. Honourable Speaker, you know what? If that–if the MLA from Portage has the audacity to sit there with a straight face and hold us accountable for a decision that 'objily' was greater influence a number of individ- uals in the province of Manitoba, to the point of 300 per cent rent increases to the producers.

And yet, his predecessors from the De partment of Agriculture and their government– The Speaker: Member's time has expired. * (14:20)

October 30, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3187 Sewage Spill Along the Red River Community Notification Process Mr. Greg Nesbitt (Riding Mountain): Hundreds of millions of litres of raw, untreated sewage spills into the Red River, and the NDP couldn't be bothered to notify downstream communities. Treaty 1 Chief Bluesky said, and I quote: What's their notification process? Because I never received anything and I'm potentially the most impacted com- munity, seeing that the water literally goes by my First Nation.

On behalf of Chief Bluesky and all downstream communities, why does this minister refuse to esta - blish a notification process? Hon. Tracy Schmidt (Minister of Environment and Climate Change): I thank the member opposite for finally asking a question regarding the environment . We know that Manitobans care deeply about their lands and their air and their water, and I'm very happy to get up and talk about our govern ment's track record and success. It's a very unfor tunate spill. Some thing that we saw. It's something that we took immediate action on.

We provided funding to the City of Winnipeg imme - diately to try to help and repair that infra structure issue. But, you know, we've also introduced a nutrient target regulation, the first in Manitoba's history that's going to set–finally–finally here in Manitoba, we have targets that both industry, municipalities and the agri- cultural sector can work together towards. This issue is something, the issue of lake– The Speaker: Member's time is expired. The honourable member for Riding Mountain, on a supplementary question. Mr.

Nesbitt: Honourable Speaker, the need to esta- blish a notification process starts at the top, with the minister being notified. On the day he learned about this massive sewage leak, Chief Bluesky advised he had a telephone call with the minister on a different matter. Chief Bluesky publicly shared that the minister was, quote, unaware of the spill, when he told her about the leakage. Is this the minister's notification plan, to wait until downstream communities see the tsunami of human waste headed their way and tell her?

MLA Schmidt: Thank you to the member opposite for the question, although the premise upon which it was based was factually incorrect. You know, when it comes to the health of our waterways, Honourable Speaker, we all want the same things. And our govern ment is proud to work with municipalities, to work with our First Nations partners, to make sure that we are strengthening our environ- mental protection and making sure that everyone downstream is aware when these things happen.

If the member opposite was familiar with The Environment Act, which I suggest that he is not, he would know that there is a duty to report in The Environment Act currently. That being said, The Environment Act hasn't been open in years. The previous govern ment didn't do a thing with it. Our government– The Speaker: Member's time is expired. The honourable member for Riding Mountain, on a final supplementary question. Mr. Nesbitt: Honourable Speaker, here's another fact.

Last time the NDP were in gov ernment, the Global Nature Fund recognized Lake Winnipeg with a dubious distinction of Threatened Lake of the Year. Today the minister seems determined to reclaim this distinction. The NDP's failure on this file has resulted in a $6-billion lawsuit filed by First Nations communities downstream from Winnipeg. Why should taxpayers be on the hook? Why should our lakes be threatened because this minister can't be bothered to establish a notification process?

MLA Schmidt: Manitobans have finally elected a gov- ernment that cares about the environment –not only cares about the environment, but is prepared to act. We've taken immediate action. We have provided funding to municipalities to help with their infra - structure. We have made long overdue amendments to The Environment Act, some thing that the previous government failed to do. The member opposite has absolutely no credibility on this issue, Honour able Speaker. Under his watch, environmental inspections were cut by half. The department was gutted. We will take absolutely no lessons from the member opposite.

On this side of the House, we stand with Manitobans. We stand for the protec tion for our air, land and water, and we are prepared to act.

3188 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 30, 2024 School Buildings in Manitoba Maintenance and Safety Concerns MLA Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): In addition to the needed new schools that this government chose to cut, we have an abundance of schools des perately needing repairs. School trustees and super intendents have stated that there are many schools in their divisions in need of repairs, including fi xing leaking roofs and replacing aging boilers.

Can the minister share with the House a timeline on when they are planning to provide funds and resources to fix and maintain the schools that need these repairs? Hon. Tracy Schmidt (Acting Minister of Education and Early Childhood Learning): I'm glad to provide an update to the House on some of the invest ments that we're making on –in our school capital projects plan. So, in Budget '24- 25, we've committed over $53 million on major additions and renovations.

We have also committed over $9.3 million on HVAC re - placements; 4 and a half million dollars on roofing projects; 2 and a half million dollars on accessibility projects and over $3.6 million on structural projects. Since the time we've took office, in fact, Honour- able Speaker, we've already invested over $21 million on completed projects. I'm happy to provide a further update to the House in my next answer. The Speaker: The honourable member for Tyndall Park, on a supplementary question.

MLA Lamoureux: According to the Brandon Sun, the Manitoba School Boards Association president confirmed the provincial government has not kept up with the funds necessary to make their timely repairs. She stated: It's like taking one step forward and two steps back. I table this

article now. What immediate steps will this gov ernment take to ensure these schools are safe for students? MLA Schmidt: Again, I'm always glad to get up and speak about our school capital plan. But on this side of the House we believe that the structures that our children learn in are im portant, but we also believe very strongly that what happens in the classroom is of most importance. And that's why I'm glad to update the House about the incredible success of our cellphone ban. The media has been covering this story and has been reporting some of the amazing results that we are seeing in our schools.

We are hearing, every day, from school divi- sions, from teachers, from parents and caregivers in the community, about the incred ible success that the ban on cellphones has had here, in Manitoba. We're hearing about kids engaging with the school community. We're hearing about laughter returning to the classroom– The Speaker: The member's time has expired. The honourable member for Tyndall Park, on a final supplementary question.

MLA Lamoureux: According to the Manitoba School Boards Association president many school buildings have become so uncomfortable and so unfit for learn- ing that some parents are choosing to keep their chil- dren home from school. The repairs needed can affect one's ability to learn and even the health of many students. What would the minister recommend we share with parents who are reaching out with concerns about sending their children to schools, right here, in Manitoba? MLA Schmidt: I'm always glad to hear from parents about their concerns about what's going on in their children's classrooms.

But what I can share with the House is that our government has done some thing historic, some thing generational that is going to make sure that students do show up in schools, and that is our history-making, $30-million universal school nutrition program. Like our ban on cellphones in schools, the school nutrition program feedback that we are receiving from divisions, from educators, from families and caregivers is unequivocally positive. This is a program that is seeing kids fed. We are seeing kids show up to school that have never been there before– The Speaker: The member's time has expired.

U of M Nursing Program Retention of New Grads MLA Mintu Sandhu (The Maples): Over the course of seven and a half years, the PC government went out of their way to make Manitoba's health-care system an unwelcoming place. Front-line workers were fired and disrespected. New grads saw Manitoba's health- care system as a toxic workplace where they didn't feel at home. Under our NDP gov ernment, graduates who want to work in health care are staying in Manitoba. They feel welcomed once again.

October 30, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3189 * (14:30) Can the minister tell us about the new grads who are hoping to build their careers in Manitoba's health- care system? Hon. Uzoma Asagwara (Minister of Health, Seniors and Long-Term Care): I thank my colleague for that wonderful question, and last week I was honoured to attend the Uni versity of Manitoba's College of Nursing pinning ceremony as we celebrated their graduating class. We welcomed 105 nursing grads to the profession of nursing here in Manitoba; a profession, Honourable Speaker, that you know is very close to my heart.

Ninety-seven per cent of those grads are staying in our province. And I want to highlight the comments made by Vivian, their valedictorian, who took time in her address to talk about the resilience of nurses and about understanding the challenges, but being ready to take them on. As long as we have nurses like Vivian graduating from our schools, then we can feel very hopeful. And it's my commitment to make sure that all nurses know they're respected, supported and championed by our government– The Speaker: The member's time has expired. Border Security Illegal Crossing Concerns Mr.

Josh Guenter (Borderland): On September 28, the RCMP became aware of a border incursion happening not far from Emerson. Six people from Sudan, Chad and Mauritania crossed into Canada illegally, and the driver from Winnipeg was charged with human smuggling. This is far from an isolated incident. Illegal border crossings are up 14 per cent this year. Has the Premier raised the issue of border security and human trafficking with the Prime Minister? Hon.

Matt Wiebe (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Honourable Speaker, I want to, first of all, commend those workers at the border, law enforce - ment, the RCMP and everybody who works hard to keep our borders safe. We've worked hard as a gov ernment to ensure that, of course, the resources are in place, but also that there's better communication between border services and the RCMP in surrounding areas to ensure illegal activity–in particular human smuggling, which we see is on the rise–is something that's stamped out.

We're going to continue to work with community to ensure that folks–once they're here–are being looked after, but it's important to ensure that all law enforce- ment has–knows that we have their backs in the work that they do. The Speaker: The honourable member for Borderland, on a supplementary question. Mr. Guenter: The CBSA union has said that nearly half of all those crossing the border illegally have criminal back grounds. The RCMP have said that crossing the US-Canada border between ports of entry is not only illegal, it is dangerous.

What message does the Premier have for those seeking to cross the border illegally? Mr. Wiebe: Well, Honourable Speaker, I mentioned before in this House that I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, but I am very–I'd like to caution the member, and I'm not sure exactly where he's going with his line of questioning. What I will say is that for our border security and in terms of our law enforcement response, we place a lot of value on the work that they do and we want to ensure they have the tools necessary.

In fact, that's one of the reasons we brought legis lation here in this House around hidden compartments in vehicles and that includes sometimes large vehicles that are designed to move people. What I will say is, is that when folks come to this province, they're going to find a welcoming home and a welcoming place where we want to protect their– The Speaker: The member's time has expired. Labour Bills in BITSA Legislation Public Consultation Concerns Mr. Trevor King (Lakeside): Honourable Speaker, the NDP have been disappointing Manitobans for over a year now.

They rebrand PC programs like my col - league from Interlake- Gimli mentioned earlier, they take credit for other people's work and worst of all, they hope that Manitobans won't notice. When Manitobans do notice, they act as if it was an innocent mistake and claim ignorance. My question to whomever wishes to answer is: Did the NDP think that Manitobans wouldn't notice them attempting to slip five pieces of legis lation past them without public consultation?

3190 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 30, 2024 Hon. Wab Kinew (Premier): The anti-scab legislation is historic; we've held numer ous press conferences about it. The seniors advocate legis lation is historic; we've held numerous press conferences about it. We are delivering on our promises to you, the great people of Manitoba. I want to say what else I noticed. I noticed Travis Kelce wearing a Blue Bombers jersey today. Travis, you're just like us; we are huge fans of Zach Collaros.

Please consider this an open invitation to visit Manitoba at any time to cheer on the Bombers, and if you come, please bring Taylor. The Speaker: The time for question period has expired. Petitions? Point of Order MLA Nellie Kennedy (Assiniboia): I rise on a point of order. The Speaker: The honourable member for Assiniboia, on a point of order. MLA Kennedy: During my member statement, I inadvertently said the wrong date for Mr. Will Gault's becoming sober. Instead of 2018, can I have the record to reflect that it should be 2015?

The Speaker: I'd just point out to the member that she does not have a point of order but I'm sure the record will properly accommodate the correct date. * * * Hon. Nahanni Fontaine (Government House Leader): On House business, Honourable– The Speaker: The honour able Govern ment House Leader, on House business. MLA Fontaine: Could you please canvass the House to see if there is leave to expedite con sideration of Bill 41, The Provincial Court Amend ment Act, as follows: 1.

At the top of orders of the day today, the House will consider second reading of Bill 41, with the sections of the Committee of Supply that meet in rooms 254 and 255 to sit concurrently to consider departmental Estimates whilst the debate is ongoing. The following limited debate provisions will apply: (

a) first, the Minister of Justice may speak for up to five minutes; (

b) then a question period of up to 15 minutes may be held in accordance with subrule 137(5) (

c) next, a member from the official opposition may speak for up to five minutes; (

d) lastly, each independent member may speak for up to five minutes; and (

e) the Speaker shall then put the question 2. Once Bill 41– The Speaker: Order, please. I would ask the House to please calm down and quiet down because I can't hear the minister speaking and I need to hear what she's saying when she's asking for a leave request. MLA Fontaine: 2. Once Bill 41 passes second reading, it shall then be referred to the Standing Committee on Social and Economic Dev elopment, meeting tonight in room 255. 3. The House shall then resolve into the Chamber

section of the Committee of Supply to consider departmental Estimates. 4. Despite subrules 139(12) and 139(13), at the top of orders of the day tomorrow, October 31, 2024, the House will consider concurrence and third reading of Bill 41, with the sections of the Committee of Supply that meet in rooms 254 and 255 to sit concur rently whilst the debate is ongoing. The following limited debate provisions will apply: first– (

a) first, the Minister of Justice may speak for up to five minutes; (

b) next, a m ember from the official opposition may speak for up to five minutes; (

d) lastly, each independent member may speak for up to five minutes; and (

d) the Speaker shall then put the question. The Speaker: Is there leave to accommodate the minister's leave request? Some Honourable Members: Leave. Some Honourable Members: No. The Speaker: Leave has been denied. Petitions? Oh, the honourable–petitions? Grievances?

October 30, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3191 ORDERS OF THE DAY GOVERNMENT BUSINESS Hon. Nahanni Fontaine (Government House Leader): Honourable Speaker, in accordance with rule 78(9), I am tabling the revised sequence for the consideration of the departmental Estimates. Honourable Speaker, can you please resume Committee of Supply? The Speaker: Been announced that we will now resume Committee of Supply. As such, will the Deputy Speaker please take the chair. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY (Concurrent Sections) ROOM 254 HOUSING, ADDICTIONS AND HOMELESSNESS * (14:50) The Chairperson (Rachelle Schott): Will the Com- mittee of Supply please come to order. This

section of the Committee of Supply will now consider the Estimates of the Department of Housing, Addictions and Homelessness. Does the honour able minister have an opening statement? Hon. Bernadette Smith (Minister of Housing, Addictions and Homelessness): I do. Good afternoon, everyone. I want to thank the critic to their role and to the first Estimates process. I look forward to working collaboratively and answer- ing some questions today. On behalf of the Department of Housing, Addictions and Homelessness, I'm pleased to present the '24- 25 financial Estimates.

I'm in credibly proud of these investments and supports that we're provi ding in budget '24–2024 to address the challenges Manitobans have faced with regards to housing, homelessness, addictions and mental health. For the first time ever, housing, homelessness, addictions and mental health have been consolidated into one single department with the purpose to break down barriers, as we recog nize these issues are con - nected and multifaceted. Our government knows that many Manitobans are personally touched by these issues. People, families and communities are hurting.

Our government understands this and are committed to doing the right thing by taking action. Much of my work is inspired by personal tragedy. Like others, I have lost family members and loved ones; my father, 22 years ago, and a few months ago, my sister. I know how difficult it is to–it is in support- ing a loved one with addictions. I'm also someone who has lived in social housing both as a child and also as a young parent. I know how important it is to have affordable housing, truly affordable rent geared to income, in order to get an education, to get a good job and live a fulfilling life.

One of our de partment's first actions when we formed government in October 2022–or 2023 was to begin working with com munity partners to connect with our relatives who are unhoused and housing with–and house them with wraparound supports to help them on their journey to wellness. * (15:00) I am pleased to share with members around the table that as a result of our work with com munity agencies over the winter, 91 people were permanently housed and another 157 were temporarily housed.

In our first year of government, we have provided capital funding for 392 housing units; 118 of those are rent geared to income and 238 are affordable. These pro- jects are in development or under construction. We look forward to more announce ments in the near future, and I am grateful to other levels of gov- ernment and philanthropic organizations who have partnered with us to bring these –bring forth these much-needed housing projects.

Since forming govern ment, our de partment has also increased funding to community-based programs that meet youth where they are, including the Indigenous Youth Mentorship and the Sources of Strength pro- grams as well as funding for Manitoba's five health authorities to strengthen regional suicide pre vention networks. In Budget 2024, you will find the de partment is focused squarely on its mandate.

We are fully com - mitted to ending chronic homelessness in Manitoba in two terms, building more social and affordable housing throughout the province, supporting harm reduction initiatives and ensuring mental health and addiction services are available and accessible to Manitobans when needed. The department's proposed 2024-25 budget reflects a core expenditure of $673 million, which is an

3192 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 30, 2024 increase of $69 million from the adjusted 2023 -2024 budget or an 11.4 per cent increase. The 2024 -25 Housing, Addictions and Homelessness

summary budget is set at $794 million. Budget for 2024 delivers the investments needed for our department to act on its mandate and provide wraparound supports to end chronic homelessness, increase safe and affordable housing, implement harm reduction initiatives and enhance suicide pre vention and mental health and addictions services here in our province. We know that ending chronic homelessness in Manitoba has to start with social and affordable housing and supporting folks along their housing and wellness journeys.

That is why our government is committed $5 million for the delivery of homelessness support services to 285 individuals. These are people exiting homeless - ness, often who need supports to access housing, readjust to being tenants and maintain their tenancies. These support services will ensure people exiting homelessness are suc cessful in their new homes and can fully participate in their communities.

The department is working to address the homeless- ness crisis in Manitoba by investing more than $116 million toward building and maintaining social and affordable housing, including $70 million in capital for Manitoba Housing, and investing to create 350 new units of social and affordable housing. Budget 2024 will provide $20 million for the 2024 capital grant program to increase the social housing supply in Manitoba through partnerships with community housing providers to acquire, renovate or construct new social housing units.

Our new $10-million affordable housing partner- ship program will work with municipalities and Indigenous govern ments to facilitate the planning, development and conversion of buildings, of new, affordable housing units. Building new social housing is central to our plan to end chronic homelessness over two terms. However it is equally impor tant to preserve and improve our existing social housing. In addition to the capital funding mentioned earlier, our government has increased repair and maintenance budgets for Manitoba Housing by $4 million.

We have also initiated two pilot projects with the Canadian Mental Health Association to deliver support services to Manitoba Housing tenants who are exiting homelessness or fleeing gender-based violence. This new part nership is the first step in a long -term plan to esta blish a Housing First model within Manitoba Housing. The pilot projects have successfully housed 25 people exiting homelessness and have CMHA support not only their clients, but also other tenants in developing key life skills and facilitating access to health and social services.

Our govern ment is taking a strong approach to harm reduction and the addictions crisis by listening to public health experts and individuals with personal experience and working with com munity organi- zations and people on the front lines. This approach is sending us in the right direction to connecting Manitobans with the supports that they need. Our government is committing $4 million to deliver on the department's mandate items for addictions sup- port and harm reduction.

This includes establishing a supervised consumption site in downtown Winnipeg, providing drug- checking machines to reduce the harms associated with an unregulated toxic drug supply, and expanding the number of detox beds and treatment options for people struggling with addictions. We are supporting the mental health of young people in Manitoba by committing $1 million to deliver a province -wide suicide pre vention strategy with a priority focus on Indigenous and 2SLGBTQ+ youth.

Budget 2024 is also provi ding $1.1 million for increased support for existing integrated youth services with the esta blishment of two new sites, one in the north and one in the south in Manitoba. These com - mitments will ensure young people have the supports of their peers, schools, families and com munities to thrive. In addition, $500,000 will be provided for the expansion of eating disorders program ming and services. The department also remains fully committed to working with the De partment of Justice to hire 100 mental health workers to work alongside law en- forcement and community organizations.

Together, these commitments will ensure Manitobans have access to dignified housing and mental health supports and addiction supports to enjoy a good quality of life and a sense of belonging in their com - munities right here in Manitoba.

October 30, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3193 I am thankful to be in this position and support Manitobans, and I look forward to our dialogue this afternoon. Miigwech. The Chairperson: We thank the minister for those comments. Appears we're having some technical dif ficulties with broadcast, so we're going to take a very–hopefully– brief recess while we resolve that. So please don't go anywhere because we have a lot of Estimates to get through, so just pause briefly, please. Thank you. The committee recessed at 3:08 p.m. ____________ The committee resumed at 3:23 p.m.

The Chairperson: Will the committee please resume. Does the critic from the official op position have an opening statement? Mrs. Carrie Hiebert (Morden-Winkler): Oh, yes, I'll say a few words. The Chairperson: The honour able member for Morden-Winkler. Mrs. Hiebert: Thank you to everybody who is here today. I just want to tell–just say how much of an honour it is for me to be here today to be able to do this job and to represent our–people in our province, people in my community, as well as the rest of the communities in Manitoba on very important issues that are close to most of our–or all of our hearts, really.

I don't think there's very many people that we can say that they don't have somebody in their family or their life that is going through difficult times, whether that's addictions or affordability and not being able to have that home security or food security. And I think it's really important for us to be here today to consider what we can do as the gov ernment or as –for me as opposition too to try to do as much as I can to find out information about how things are going in the province and how the government–current govern - ment is doing.

So I find it–I'm honoured to be able to do this on behalf of all of the people that are–or folks that are out there suffering or dealing with situations with family members and loved ones, whether that be housing, social housing or family members who are homeless and they don't have anybody or anywhere to go and they don't know where they are. And these are all such big issues, as well as mental health as well. Like, it's just–there's so much in our province that's–and it's devastating to see some of these situations.

And that I can be here to help, work together with my minister and to do what we can for the province and for the people that we love. So thank you very much. I do have a lot of lived experience as well as other avenues of experience, as well, with affordable housing and with Manitoba Housing spe cifically. I, as the minister mentioned, she's had to–she's used those ser- vices, and I can say I've done the same.

So it's an im- portant service that we need to make sure we protect and we work as hard as we can to make sure we have housing and that we take care of our loved ones who are struggling with recovery from addictions or, you know, affordability and mental health. So thank you for having me here today, and I just wanted to say that I appre ciate being here and being able to work together. Thank you. The Chairperson: We thank the member. Under Manitoba practice, debate on the minister's salary is the last item considered for a de partment in the Committee of Supply.

Accordingly, we shall now defer consideration of line item 24.1(

a) contained in resolution 21–24, rather, point 1. At this time, we invite the minister's staff to join us at the table. We ask that the minister introduce the staff in attendance. Please join us. Ms. Smith: So I'd like to introduce my amazing team, my staff that are here to support me today. So I have my deputy minister, Catherine Gates. I also have assist ant deputy minister, Carolyn Ryan; acting executive director, Sean Leggett; acting executive director, Vicki Toews; assistant deputy minister, Brian Malkowich, and then my amazing director of Ministerial Affairs, Andrée Forest.

So I want to thank you all for being here and for supporting–and Brian–oh, sorry, Robert–and also my assistant deputy minister and executive financial officer, Robert Cann. Thank you.

3194 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 30, 2024 The Chairperson: According to our rule 78.16, during the consideration of departmental Estimates, questioning for each department shall proceed in a global manner with questions put separately on all resolu tions once the official opposition critic indicates that questioning has concluded. The floor is now open for questions. Mrs. Hiebert: My first question is about affordable housing and social housing. Can the minister explain the difference between social housing and affordable units–the social and the affordable units? Sorry. * (15:30) Ms.

Smith: I want to thank the member for that question. So, affordable would be like social rent geared to income, so based on your income, 30 per cent of your income. Our Manitoba Housing would be a good example of that, so that's why we made the commit- ment to put more invest ment into maintaining our Manitoba Housing. As you know, the prior government made cuts to that budget by 87 per cent, left a lot of those units boarded up, sold off a lot of those housing units, which left a lot of people unsheltered and put us into a real predicament today because there was a lot of units that could've been used today.

So those were really truly rent geared to income. So we've been able to house over 1,500 people. I know I said in the House a couple of weeks ago that it was 1,200, but it's now 1,500 people we've been able to house since we've come into govern ment, since November, actually. So we're really proud of that because these are folks that would otherwise be homeless or they're exposed to gender-based violence.

These are folks that are coming out of care, kids that are, you know, exiting the child-welfare system, and, really, we've made it a mandate of ours to, as you know, in the next two terms, to end chronic homelessness. So we've really focused on our own housing, but also, we also have an EIA shelter benefit, and that's to provide a benefit to folks so that they can access non-Manitoba Housing. So, if they want to go into the private market or if they go into a non-profit housing, there is a shelter benefit to them as well. So a lot of non-profits will provide social, affordable housing.

So, if you go into the private market, let's say a two- bedroom is like $1,600–that's market value rent. So that's not social and afforda ble. So what's affordable to me isn't affordable to someone that's living in a tent or someone that's on EIA. When we look at affordable or rent geared to income in Manitoba Housing, we really look at your income and it's 30 per cent based on that. So there's a mix that's operated. So there's government-run, which is run by us, so which is the Manitoba Housing, and then we have non-profits and there's several of them.

We've also provided some funds to those groups to be able to maintain rents at the rates that they're provi- ding to the tenants. As we know, under the former government, there was a building, Lions Manor, that was sold off and many folks were at risk of losing their tenancy, and that was a non -profit. And we want to ensure that these buildings that are supporting folks in our pro- vince at affordable rent geared to income with some shelter benefits or rent supplements are able to maintain that level of rent of–amount.

Because if they go into the –if they sell off that building, those folks will be unable to afford market rent and then they'll be displaced. And often that's their com munity in those buildings, so that's why we've been able to provide that. We've heard loud and clear from non-profits that they need extra funding to be able to continue to operate as non -profits and pro vide that level of support to tenants. We also have the private market, which I've talked about a bit.

So Rent Assist will kick in to a certain percentage where people can get a benefit that'll top up their rent so that they're able to pay higher rents in those units. And yes, we've been able to house about 1,500 people and we're very happy about that, and we're continuing to move that needle in terms of maintaining and supporting people here in Manitoba. Mrs. Hiebert: Thank you very much for that answer to that question. I just wanted to just bring up a question about, in December, the minister paused the sale of 19 public - housing properties. Can she provide a list of the Manitoba Housing properties these were?

And just to bring a little infor mation up, I am aware that there are some Manitoba Housing units that are sitting empty currently, and I'm just wondering if the minister is aware that, right now, they're sitting empty and they're in need of repair. And there are private investors who are waiting to purchase those – like, those properties, and that they're ask–being asked to sign–and willingly sign–an agreement that they will

October 30, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3195 continue with the low -income housing amounts for the people who will be moving into those spaces for up to 18 years to–like, after they've purchased and invested in fixing up these properties. So I don't see how that's not just a win- win for everybody rather than having these properties sitting empty. They're willing to come in and do the reno- vations and sign an agreement that they will continue the low-income Manitoba Housing amounts that people will be–are paying through the program. * (15:40) Ms.

Smith: So as the member will know, under the previous govern ment, there were a lot of sales that happened, of social housing. And 185 Smith is one example of one sale that was over 300 units. This, you know, today, would have given over 300 people access to housing. There is currently a need for that in our province. And under the former government there were even more sales. And when I was, you know, blessed in this posi - tion, one of the first things I looked at is we needed to secure this crown jewel and ensure that we had access for folks here in Manitoba to good quality, affordable, safe housing.

And the only way we could do that is by ensuring that we, as Manitoba Hous ing providers, could provide that as an asset in-house. Under the former govern ment, there was a 20 per cent change in management. So 20 per cent were either sold off or manage ment was changed, so went into the hands of someone else to manage, which really tied our hands as government, in terms of who could access that housing.

So if we wanted someone, for instance, that was in an encampment today, to get into one of those units because it was vacant, we couldn't just go to that housing provider because it's not managed by us, and say to them, we need that suite today for someone who's–needs housing. We've taken a different direction as a gov ern- ment. We've looked at Manitoba Housing as a respon- sibility as a gov ernment, to provide housing for Manitobans that's truly rent geared to income, that is affordable, that is safe, that is quality and that provides and meets people's needs where they're at.

In 2017, there was $46 million that was invested by the previous government; 2018-19, it went down to $25 million; 2019-20, $36 million; 2020-21, $31 million; 2021, $37 million. And then, when you look at what our government's investing today, we're at $77 million. So you can see the difference in investments and how we take the respon sibility and the –this as a sacred responsibility of housing people. But not only that, but as Manitoba Housing is a crown jewel of investing not only in housing people but also in the staff –the folks that are working on the front lines and in supporting these folks.

I was fortunate enough to go to Dauphin, to Brandon, to Portage la Prairie; all over the province, to many of our housing–Manitoba Housing units –and meet so many amazing front -line staff that are working to ensure that, you know, our most vul nerable folks are staying tenanted, successfully tenanted. And that's not always easy because we know that, you know, this – the landscape in Manitoba has changed, that the way that we house people and the supports that they need have changed in this province.

And I just, you know, I want to uplift and, you know, I can't say enough about the amazing work that our Manitoba Housing staff are doing on the front lines, because they are doing incred ible work with what they had. We've continued to staff up and pro- vide more supports because we've been listening to them; we've heard them and we know that they need more supports in order to continue to keep people suc- cessfully housed in the units. Mrs. Hiebert: Thank you very much for that infor - mation.

I just want to say that it's unfortunate that, for many, many years, the crown jewel, as the minister referred to, was ignored by the NDP government, and it fell in disarray. And I'm sorry that that happened because now it falls on everybody in, like, in the last– you know, now in the current govern ment and our government in the past that the repairs have to be done, and it's overwhelming, I'm sure. But can the minister just let me know if she has a breakdown of the 1,500 that have been housed that she mentioned earlier?

Can she give me a breakdown where those are–where those housing–or where they been – where they're currently being housed now that–in those spaces? Ms. Smith: So I don't have the update on the 1,500, but I can give the member an update on the 1,200 that I referenced in the House. So again, I want to uplift and, you know, just send my gratitude, and, you know, the gratitude from our government out to all of those Housing First organi - zations–all of those folks that are on the front lines that are working to support all of these folks and getting them housed. Because it takes a tremen dous amount

3196 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 30, 2024 of work to not only support these folks in getting them housed, but also to continue to support their tenancy. These are, you know, folks that are case managers, these are folks that work at organizations like women's centres, End Homelessness Winnipeg, in shelters and so many other places across our province, whether it's in Brandon or Thompson or Portage la Prairie–like all over our province, there's great work being done by so many organizations.

And I just want to uplift and just say, you know, we are very grateful for the work that they're doing because, without the work that they're doing, we can't do the work that we're doing. So I just want to say that, first of all. So in November to October, there were 141 that were discharged from hospital; there were 126 that were coming out of domestically violent relation - ships; 811 of them were homeless. And then from November to October, 77 were from the hospital; 120 of them were gender-based violence; 725 of them were from the shelter.

And these, again, were–125 of them were from our Housing First teams; 32 of them were provided rent supplements; 129 of them came out of our winter response. The member would remember –would recall that we brought together a table of folks from organi - zations who had been working on the front lines with folks that were unsheltered, such as Ma Mawi, Siloam Mission, different organizations. Folks from Brandon came and we came up with a preventative strategy to house people in the winter, and really looking at long- term housing and making sure that people had supports throughout.

So not just, you know, putting people in shelters– that's a short-term, right? But looking at, longitudinally, how do we ensure that people stay tenanted with the wraparound supports because we know that we can't just put people in homes. All too often, you know, as the MLA for Point Douglas, the three shelters are in my riding. * (15:50) I would go time and time again, to the shelter and, you know, I'd see those same faces, and too often they'd say to me –I'd see that face again, they'd be housed and I'd say, why are you back? They weren't getting the supports that they needed.

So this de partment was created because of that. Because we recognize and we are committed to provi- ding quality, safe, affordable housing with supports that are going to help keep people tenanted. You know, whether it's mental health supports –we know that there's, you know, folks that whether they have brain injuries or, you know, everyone struggles with mental health, right? And I don't think any person in this province is immune to, you know, struggling, and at some point needs some kind of support.

So we've, you know, enhanced our ACT, FACT and PACT teams–or ACT and FACT teams to provide supports to 300 more Manitobans in this province. And, you know, we're just continuing to support and meet folks where they're at, and this is in support of that. A nd 725 of these folks actually were housed within Manitoba Housing units. So again, you know, working on maintaining, turning around units and investing in our own crown jewel has made a real impact and a real difference. Mrs. Hiebert: I'm just going to let my colleague here ask a question really quick. The Chairperson: Which colleague?

An Honourable Member: Member from– The Chairperson: The member for Dawson Trail. MLA Bob Lagassé (Dawson Trail): Okay, I'm more going to back up two answers, just because I heard something in your answer that I –kind of tweaked a question in my brain. You were saying that when there's housing units available, as gov ernment, we're now kind of saying who goes into those. Are we considering the safety of the other residents within those facilities already?

Because I recall back –I think it was even under our time so it's not really a partisan thing –there was a murder of some kind that had occurred from a tenant that had not been evicted from a housing unit. And I also know of a single mother a number of years back who was saying that she was in one of these Manitoba Housing units and the safety was –it was out of control because she could not –she almost wished that more single mothers had been placed together. So that's–just going back to that initial saying that we're just plopping people there or whatever is a little bit concerning to me.

I don't know if I just misheard it or if it's some thing that, you know, is just needing further review. It's not a shot ; it just tweaked some - thing with me there. Ms. Smith: So I just want to disabuse the member of the language that they used around plopping people

October 30, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3197 into housing because we just don't plop people into housing. We ensure that, you know, we're meeting people where they're at and we're providing housing based on what their needs are. That's something that I'm very proud of our team in terms of restructuring the way that we're doing housing. Because that was very evident under the previous govern ment in terms of selling off, you know, not providing the supports that were needed in the buildings that, you know, provide– that were really getting unsafe.

And when, you know, our government, when we took government, we heard that loud and clear from, you know, the co-ordinators, from the managers, that, you know, they were understaffed, they didn't have the supports that they needed, that they weren't feeling safe in the jobs that they were doing. And we were able to hire 10 tenant service co-ordinators, four program managers. We're working on hiring two Indigenous spiritual-care workers to really support and bring together a team of people that are real ly working on meeting people where they're at.

So what happens is, in order for tenants to come into Manitoba Housing, they have to–it's income tested. So again, they have to qualify. And then they do–they go through an interview where they're assessed based on their needs. And I just want to uplift Brian, because Brian works a lot on our housing team. And everyone knows Brian by his name. I met with a lot of our tenants, and they speak highly of the work that he does. And all of our, you know, tenant co-ordinators and any building you walk into, they know them by name because they have a relationship with them. And so it doesn't always work.

It's not a perfect system. But we've identified, you know, areas where we need to improve, and we've put in im provements in those places. We also have four new mobile security officers so–that are able to respond when there's a need. And, again, these tenant co -ordinators are there so that we're not having to have mobile security, so that the relationships are being built, so that proactive work is being done and, you know, fires are put out before they happen, right? And people –if people need extra supports, then we –we're able to find them extra supports.

And many of the folks that are living in some of the Manitoba Housing units will have case managers or be working with organizations who also work with our Manitoba Housing staff. So if there is an issue, they will call them and let them know, and they will come and work with them. So it's not like, you know, we're like, you know, finger-waving, but it's like, how do we work collabo- ratively together, to work together for the best needs of the tenant to make sure that they're supported and that they stay suc cessfully tenanted. B ecause, you know, as you will know, life happens, right?

Sometimes something happens in your life where there's a crisis, and, you know, you just need that extra support. So I'm –you know, we have a couple of pilot projects that I'm super proud of; one in Dauphin and one at 44 Kennedy. And if you're around on Friday, they're unveiling the mural that's on the side of that building. So if you're around to go and see that mural, it's going to be a very beautiful mural. But CMHC is in there, so Canadian Mental Health Association. And prior to us coming into government, 10 different workers were coming in to support 10 different people.

And, you know, our brilliant staff, Carolyn here, identified that and said, you know, we have 10 different workers coming in to support 10 different people. We should do a pilot where we, you know, have everyone supported in this building that needs support. Why don't we take these 10 workers and create a model where we can support everyone in this building that wants to have support. So we converted some of this building so that everyone can come and get support from a team of workers. And it's worked really well. And we've done the same thing in Dauphin.

So, you know, the level of support that people are receiving in Manitoba Housing has really increased, and people are really staying successfully tenanted. * (16:00) The Chairperson: A reminder that putting questions and answers must happen through the Chair, just for all members. Thank you. MLA Lagassé: Okay, so just a bit of a follow -up. It was not intended to imply we're just plopping people. It just was the language that came to mind at that time. So in these situations, I've heard we're talking to a lot of case workers, all of that.

But we're not neces- sarily–are we talking to the tenants themselves and advising–like, getting their advice? This may be a separate question, but it's just something that also came to my attention. Was – regarding the bedbug problem. And I know it's a huge problem within Manitoba Housing. And there have

3198 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 30, 2024 been organizations that have also suggested different ways of dealing with the bedbugs. And I'd be more than willing to talk with the minister outside of this about that. But it's just–these are the concerns. And I'm just wondering, are we talking regularly with the tenants in each building? Ms. Smith: So our tenants' service co- ordinators are heavily involved with the tenants. Our staff just did a tour and actually met with residents. I went on a couple of the tours and actually met with residents, heard their concerns.

And that was why we hired more staff and more service providers on the front lines to support folks. We–in all regions of the province, when it comes to pest management, we hired more people to support. Because when I was in op position, I heard people were getting evicted because they couldn't move their belongings, and so they would get evicted from Manitoba Housing for not being able to move their belongings. So there's been someone hired; there's been money invested so that that service could be provided.

So if a senior, let's say, needs that service –sorry–or if, you know, someone that's struggling with mental health issues doesn't want someone come into their suite. You know, you have someone that can come i n and provide support to that person to be able to help them manage someone coming into their suite. There's a lot more services today than there was, you know, prior. There–the bedbugs, it's actually 50 per cent lower than it was in 2015, so we've seen a significant decrease across the province in terms of bedbugs, so that's a good news story.

And again, I want to uplift and, you know, say–I can't say enough about the people who are working on the front lines to help and support the tenants and to make sure that, you know, those bedbug sprays are being done. Because I know it's annoying when yo u have to move your furniture every month for someone to come in and spray, but once it's done and, you know, there's no more bedbugs in your apartment and in your building, then you're kind of bedbug free. But it is an annoyance to be able–to have to always continually do that.

So I just want to say, you know, to those tenants that have had to do that, it's annoyance, but at the end, you know, you have a bug-free apartment or unit. And again, we've invested more supports for people to be able to have some –with mobility issues or any other issues–to be able to have that support to be able to do that. The other thing that we've ensured that we're doing is making sure that folks have an avenue to provide feedback. So again, our tenant service co -ordinators are that conduit, so–we also have some case managers that work on the front lines.

So like I said, they might have a case manager from a shelter, they might have a case manager from let's say a woman's centre, west central women's centre that they worked with, or another organi zation that provides support for –End Homelessness Winnipeg is another one. And they con- tinue to support them no matter where they live and where they've moved to. And they work really collab- oratively with our housing team. And we look at it as like a team approach, so it's not like this is one organi zation over here and Winnipeg housing is –or Manitoba Housing is over here.

But we look at it as, how do we look–work col- laboratively to support this individual, and what do they–what are their needs, and how do we work col - laboratively? And it's really been amazing how we've been able to do that. Like I say, Brian has been amazing, Carolyn, really the whole team in terms of providing those wraparound supports to keep peopl e tenanted. You know, our biggest challenge here in the province right now is building more housing. That's our issue, right?

Under, you know, the previous gov- ernment, there was a lot of housing that was sold off, so now we're, you know, having to play catch-up and really work on getting more housing built, work on maintaining the housing that we have, because it was left unmaintained. So now we're looking at–you know, we did an audit, what could be, you know, fixed in a 30, 60, 90 and get those units turned around quickly. I did a walkthrough of some of the units, and, you know, Brian showed me what a unit would take to get turned around and how long that would take. Mrs.

Hiebert: Going back to the question about security for the Manitoba Housing units, just a little more information or details on that. We know that, you know, Manitoba Housing, yes, they–you guys do–like, they do a great job on taking care of their tenants and meeting the needs that they have, and I –and it's just some thing we can't replace. There's just–it's such an im portant thing to have that housing for everyone who needs it in our com mu- nities. And I've experienced it myself, personally. So

October 30, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3199 it's important–what an impor tant job that everybody does, and it's so much appreciated. Which goes back to, again, you just–the minister just mentioned that there were four mobile officers – security officers hired or in that position. And I'm just wondering how, four, how do they cover all of the Manitoba Housing units?

And specifically if there's a Manitoba Housing unit who has tenants who are scared for their safety –and not because of who's living in the building with them, but more who's coming into the building to other apartments. * (16:10) Whether there's, you know, people doing illegal practices or things inside these buildings or these apartments and there's somebody who has a disability living next door who can't really defend them selves, for example. Because many people with dis abilities live in Manitoba Housing units, people with mental health issues, like you said, seniors.

So how do we –how is –are those tenants being taken care of when there's only four mobile officers? And how do they–who's the intake worker? Who decides where those four officers go to meet the needs of those tenants that are needing safety –that have safety concerns? Ms. Smith: So when I referenced the four new security officers, I–those are in addition to our 36.9 FTEs that we already have. And those four new mobile security officers are going to be stationed solely in Central Park, because over half our calls were dispatched to Central Park.

So this is going to be a team dedi cated just to Central Park so we can free up the rest of the mobile team to be able to –security officers to be able to go and work in other buildings as needed with other tenants. So they provide security services that improve the safety and well-being of tenants and employees, and that's a key priority of our govern ment. So Manitoba Housing, when we took gov ernment, that was some - thing that we committed to.

We wanted to ensure that we provided safe, affordable housing for Manitobans, and that's why we added more security officers, but we also added, like I said, more tenants service co-ordinators to be able to support Manitobans. Manitoba Housing has more than 300– or 3,000 security cameras in service at 77 properties throughout the province. The Housing Com muni- cations Centre operates 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days of the year. And the call centre is in Winnipeg, and there's a number that tenants call and then they dispatch the security officers out to wherever they're needed.

So I said that we added those four additional mobile security officers to our workforce and, again, Central Park-concentrated. We also partnered with cadets in Brandon. So in Princess Towers–so, we had an empty space that wasn't being utilized and we saw an oppor tunity to have a collaborative partnership with the cadets and for them to build some community relationships with the folks that were living in our Manitoba Housing building. But there's also a park there. Our Safe and Warm Shelter was right across the street.

A lot of folks hang out around that area, so we really wanted to support and build collaboration amongst all of us that were in that area. So that's really been a success. They have a good relationship with the folks that are in –living in the building. The folks that are living in the building have sung praises about the value that they brought to the building, but also the folks that are living in and around that building, and even folks who are unsheltered that live in and around that building–the relationship that they built with those cadets that are housed in that one space within our Princess Towers.

Since 2017-18, 67 front-line positions were cut in Housing, and that included security staff. So we're taking a different approach, as I said. We want to con- tinue to support, listen to tenants and meet them where they're at. And that includes, you know, when we hear Central Park needs more support, adding those mobile security officers, being able to set up a command post there with a bunch of cameras. And aga in, it's about meeting people where they're at, supporting them, keeping them successfully tenanted.

And sometimes people just need, you know–I know the member had talked about people feeling unsafe, and we want people to feel safe in our Manitoba Housing units. And that's why we're investing more in security and more in tenant services to provide that level of safety and security, and keeping Manitoba Housing as our Crown jewel and continuing to invest so that people can have a place to live. Mrs. Hiebert: Thank you to the minister for that.

Can the minister–I know that the minister alluded to this already earlier in her opening statement, but can she–or can the minister please update us on how many mental health workers have been hired to go

3200 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 30, 2024 alongside law enforcement agencies at this time? But break that down into rural, and how many in the city. * (16:20) Ms. Smith: So I was just up in Thompson last weekend, and I was so blessed to be up there for KIM's announce ment where they were rolling out their mobile outreach van, which is serving five com mu- nities plus the town of Thompson. I got to meet six of the workers. So there are six in Thompson that have been hired, and they're hiring more.

And I got to listen to five folks that have already been impacted by the exper ience of these folks that are providing services. So they're provi ding primary health care, and they're providing harm reduction. And these were folks that were unhoused, mainly. But they talked about how they had never –well, one participant talked about how they had not accessed any health care at all and that when they received health care from this mobile unit, how caring, com - passionate and non- judgmental the care that they received was.

There was another individual that talked about meeting them where they're –were at and not, you know, judging them and providing, you know, health care because they had gone to the hospital, then they felt that they were judged. And they didn't feel like that they–they didn't feel that they got the level of care that they should've been given at the hospital. Another parti cipant talked about spreading the word about the services that this mobile outreach service was providing.

And again, like, this is one ser- vice that's going to provide services to five com mu- nities plus the town of Thompson; that is mobile, coming and providing services to the community where they're at. And, you know, just to meet the folks that were providing the care–there was six. They were all First Nations. They were all women was the other thing. And when they talked about, you know, the care– there was one that just talked –the care that they're providing and why they're providing it and it's to con- nect people with care–long-term care, right?

People that may have an illness that don't even know about it, right? And that prevention piece and how do you help people connect to health care in a relational way, in a trusting way, in a way that is going to have a warm hand-off at the hospital so that they can, you know, get further treatment if they need it. Another one talked about, you know, the harm reduction and receiving care from that mobile unit. And they also connect people with services beyond that.

So if they want to get into treatment, if they want to get into detox, you know, if they're wanting to, you know, get other services, that is their–one connection that they can get. So I just want to, you know, again, uplift and honour the work that's being done in Thompson, in the KIM mobile outreach van as well, because they are doing phenomenal work in their Wellbriety Centre, in this mobile outreach and in so many other programs in Thompson as well. We also have our FACT and ACT teams.

As you know, we made an an nouncement a few weeks ago, and that's really to support people and meet them where they're at and help them live in the community. So these are folks that would otherwise be hospitalized, and it's a continuum of care. So, you know, if you need more levels of care, you know, you would be with the ACT team. The less level of care you need, you go down to the FACT team. Correct, okay. And then you can, you know, if you find yourself in crisis and you need more support, you can go back up to the FACT.

Like, it's a con- tinuum of care. * (16:30) And it's to ensure that people are successfully sup- ported in living in the community. And these are folks that would be incar cerated, that would be living in encampments, that would be otherwise in the hospital because of mental illness. So again, these are folks–and then we have more, but I'll get to that in next answers. Mrs. Hiebert: Thank you very much for that. And, yes, like the ACT evidence- based service delivery model that's happening, I just want to do a quick shout -out to the mental health workers and everybody who's been doing this.

There's a pilot pro- ject that's been going on at Eden Mental Health in Winkler, Steinbach and Winnipeg, and just the job that they're doing is such an amazing job for them. So thank you for setting us all on the right path for–to get that going and to have that model so that we can use that and we can service and take care of those that we need to take of with mental health. So shout-out to that organization for setting the way for all of us.

October 30, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3201 And I just want to again ask, I guess, of those 100 that you talked about that –the added support for the police services, how many of those have been hired and if–how many are in rural and how many are in the city, specifically? If I could get that info rmation as well. Ms. Smith: So the ACT and FACT teams, there's 22 workers that will be hired. We have a crisis and consultation staff for youth. Six have been hired of 13. And, again, these are to support youth.

We recognize and heard from so many com munity organizations that were youth-serving that there was a need for more services. That, you know, often these were under - represented, underserviced. And our team, you know, started immediately looking at how do we put more supports into the system to support and mee t youth where they're at. So I'm very, you know, proud that they were able to support that. We are working on cross -collaboration across departments so we're working with Families and Justice.

So I'm really proud of our govern ment in being able to not just work in silos within our own de- partments, but to work across departments.

You know, we have an amazing DM that – Catherine Gates, here–that–and many other DMs that have a DMs table that work around looking at how do we work col laboratively together around common spaces, you know, whether it's youth in care, whether it's, you know, kids that are exiting the justice system or kids that are exiting the child- welfare system that need housing or folks that are coming out of incarcer- ation that need housing or folks that are coming out of the hospitals. And we're working with seniors and–or Minister Asagwara. You know, how do we support in housing folks as well.

So we're working across departmentally on so many different levels, which I think, you know, really alleviates some of the pressures in so man y areas, because we have so many hands on deck that are doing such phenomenal work in identifying gaps that maybe our de partment isn't able to, you know, pick up, but another de partment is able to. And then collaboratively we work together to support and enhance services and deliver those services for Manitobans. I think about DCSP.

I was just last week, during our break week, went for a visit, and we got to see their dashboard and talk with some of the front -line workers. I got to meet with their core team, which is their team that works with housing folks. They have a group of six, and they work primarily with people who are in encampments that need sup- ports in terms of getting housing. And just the level of support that they provide, the level of compassion, caring and meeting people where they're at. When I was talking to them about encampments, I asked, you know, how many people were living there.

And, you know, the relationships that they build with these folks and the understanding that this is their home until they find a home was, like–and that really, it really struck my heart because I was, like, this is their home until they find a home, unfortunately, right? And we don't want people living in those undignified ways. So we really need to build housing and that – like, we're working on that and supporting and meet - ing people where they're at.

Listening to, you know, some of those folks talk about getting folks housed and how, you know, under the previous govern ment, they really felt like there was nowhere for these folks to go, taking them to shelters and there not being any shelter space because, like, they were being turned away. And, you know, we really want to work on a long- term solution which is building housing, working on getting our own housing maintained and fixed up, and supporting non-profit housing, so that it stays non-profit, but also building in the supports.

So, you know, I think about Aboriginal Health and Wellness and their mobile clinic. That's another support that's out there and supporting the community and going and meeting people where they're at. They're also visiting encampments and supporting and providing primary health care in places and spaces where people aren't getting out to receive those levels of care. So I want to just, you know, uplift and honour all those folks that are on the front lines provi ding so much support to so many of our vulnerable folks that need so much care and so much love and so much unconditional support.

The Chairperson: Before moving on, I just want to remind all members that in the Committee of Supply we need to refer to members by their portfolios or constituencies. Mrs. Hiebert: I just want to go on to the topic of addiction and recovery for a minute here, before we're almost done. It seems like this day has just flown by here. Just knowing how important it is for us to be able to provide care and support for those that are mental

3202 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 30, 2024 health and struggling with homelessness, and a lot of those things are connected with addictions. And just talking about the addictions part of this is that, just to kind of bring a light to how we need to support those that are–we–better here and we love, and that we want to have them in recovery so that they can have a future and a life and experience and stay with us for years to come. And so, me having experienced specifically with some loved ones in my life, as well, that are, you know, in recovery.

And I can't imagine what it would be like not having them in my life and not having them here to celebrate birthdays and to do all the wonderful things that we can do together as a family because they were able to, you know, access recovery. And so, one of the questions I have is just, with opioid antagonist–agonist treatment–OAT is what we– O-A-T–it's a safe and effective treatment used for 'opoid' use disorders.

These prescribed medi cations provide stable, long- acting relief for withdrawal and cravings, and can improve your healthy outcomes, to help give that extra help to those that are trying to break free from their addictions. And I think it's up to us to do whatever we can to make sure that we can, you know, help them achieve those goals. How many individuals in Manitoba are currently using the OAT for their recovery, spe cifically? How much–what does that program look like? * (16:40) Ms. Smith: So since the inception of OAT, there's been over 30,000 service episodes.

Folks can access OAT through their primary health-care provider now, so we don't have a line of sight on that. But I can tell you in 2019 there were 67 prescribers. To date, there's over 250. So moving towards a more integrated model, less stigma around it rather than going to a RAAM clinic. We also opened up RAAM Digital Front Door a few weeks ago, which is accessible wherever you're at. So you don't have to go wait at a RAAM clinic to see a physician, you can see them virtually and then if you need to go in, they will let you know where to go in. There's seven RAAM clinics.

So there's three in Winnipeg, one in Brandon, one in Selkirk, one in Thompson, one in Portage. And then across the province, there's anywhere between 117 to 142 people presenting each week. But with the Digital Front Door, that 's increased access to a lot more people being able to access it wherever they're at. If they're in the North, if they don't have, you know, a cellphone or Internet, they can go to, you know, a band office or a community centre, wherever they can get Int ernet. So a lot of folks are doing that or going to a com mu- nity centre.

So we've heard a lot of that when I was at the RAAM clinic in Portage. I went to Portage during the break, and I got to visit their RAAM clinic. They talked about the Digital Front Door and how it's changed and how much access it's provided to other folks in that area. I met with the team out there and such an amazing team. Again, you know, I can't say enough about our service providers right across this province, provi ding such quality, compassionate care, meeting folks where they're at from a non- judgmental place.

And, you know, whether people are ready to, you know, move into treatment or not, you know, they are accepting and supportive. They had a com munity garden outside of their RAAM clinic. They had flowers along the top; it's inaccessible, so they have a wheelchair ramp. They had potted plants along the top there. And their team was just so amazing, just the level of care, I could feel the love that they put into the design. It's an old house. So if you ever get a chance to go visit it, it's –it was just a –you could feel like the love when you went inside. And they had balloons on the wall.

That was kind of the heart-breaking part, because the balloon repre- sented someone that had lost their life to an overdose. And some of the names were on there twice or three times, but the participants who–or the folks that access their services, when they came in, they were able to put that person's name up on that wall. So even though that person's name is already up there, that person was known and loved by many people. So you could see that up on that wall. Yes, it was just a beautiful converted house and just the level of services that they provide.

And, again, the digital RAAM services, you know, has opened that door to a lot more people being able to access those services and get the care and support that they need where they need it and meet them where they're at. Mrs. Hiebert: Thank you for that information. We just–we know how important it is for us to be sensitive and open to hearing what people need and to meeting those needs in addiction recovery, housing, homelessness, mental health especially.

Just–we know that there's been such a large increase in mental health needs and just making sure that those needs are met and we have services across the whole province, in rural Manitoba as well as Winnipeg. So important for

October 30, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3203 us to do to meet those needs of everyone because we love everybody. And like you said, there's just–or like the minister said, there's a stigma out there, and people are afraid to get help and to look for help. So we just need to let you know that, you know, you are loved and we are here for you to help you in whatever way we can.

And that's what I –take what I'm doing very seriously as well as just meeting the needs and advocating for whatever I can possibly do for those in our province and our loved ones. * (16:50) So thank you to everybody who does work with our com munity and our loved ones meeting those needs. It's such a valuable and irreplaceable job that you do. Unfortunately, I have many more questions, but I don't think I have any more time to ask my questions, so I want to just say thank you and ap preciate being able to come here today and ask questions.

And hope- fully there's an open door where I can continually ask questions because I really think this is such an–all of these portfolios of mental health, addictions, homeless- ness, housing are all so important. And I will continue to work hard on that for my constituents and for the people in our province. So thank you very much. So I have no further questions at this time.

The Chairperson: Seeing no further questions at this time, Resolution 24.2: RESOLVED that there be granted to His Majesty a sum not exceeding $46,586,000 for Housing, Addictions and Homelessness, Mental Health and Addictions Service Planning and Policy, for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2025. Resolution agreed to. Resolution 24.3: RESOLVED that there be granted to His Majesty a sum not exceeding $239,234,000 for Housing, Addictions and Homelessness, Housing, for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2025. Resolution agreed to.

Resolution 24.4: RESOLVED that there be granted to His Majesty a sum not exceeding $83,881,000 for Housing, Addictions and Homelessness, Physician Services–Psychiatry, for the physical year – fiscal year, rather–ending March 31, 2025. Resolution agreed to. Thanks for more enthusiasm on that. Resolution 24.5: RESOLVED that there be granted to His Majesty a sum not exceeding $300,848,000 for Housing, Addictions and Homelessness, Funding to Health Authorities, for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2025. Resolution agreed to.

Resolution 24.6: RESOLVED that there be granted to His Majesty a sum not exceeding $820,000 for Housing, Addictions and Homelessness, Costs Related to Capital Assets of Other Reporting Entities, for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2025. Resolution agreed to. Resolution 24.7: RESOLVED that there be granted to His Majesty a sum not exceeding $15,000,000 for Housing, Addictions and Homelessness, Loans and Guarantees Program s, for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2025. Resolution agreed to.

Resolution 24.8: RESOLVED that there be granted to His Majesty a sum not exceeding $77,871,000 for Housing, Addictions and Homelessness, Other Reporting Entities Capital Investment, for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2025. Resolution agreed to. The last item to be considered for the Estimates of this department is item 24.1(a), the minister's salary, contained in reso lution 24.1. At this point, we respectfully request the minister's staff to leave the table for the consideration of this last item. The floor is open for questions.

Seeing no questions, I'll put the question for the final– Resolution 24.1: RESOLVED that there be granted to His Majesty a sum not exceedin

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Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	43-1-80
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	43rd 1st hansardpdf 80.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	19a7d8eb023b75a2b42433e729699cec76b332cf

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