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December 8, 2011

40th Parliament, 1st Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2011-Dec-08 (PDF)

L012 - Thu 8 Dec 2011 / Jeu 8 déc 2011

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L’ONTARIO

Thursday 8 December 2011 Jeudi 8 décembre 2011

ORDERS OF THE DAY

HEALTHY HOMES RENOVATION

TAX CREDIT ACT, 2011 /

LOI DE 2011 SUR LE CRÉDIT D’IMPÔT

POUR L’AMÉNAGEMENT DU LOGEMENT

AXÉ SUR LE BIEN-ÊTRE

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

ORAL QUESTIONS

GOVERNMENT SPENDING

GOVERNMENT SPENDING

TAXATION

TAXATION

AGENCY SPENDING

SMART METERS

RENEWABLE ENERGY

HOSPITALS

PUBLIC TRANSIT

ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT

HIGHWAY CONSTRUCTION

WINTER HIGHWAY MAINTENANCE

RENEWABLE ENERGY

GOVERNMENT REGULATIONS

DOCTOR SHORTAGE

LEGISLATIVE PAGES

SEASON’S GREETINGS

MEMBERS’ STATEMENTS

WESTPORT LIONS CLUB /

ATHENS LIONS CLUB

BELLEVUE HOUSE

DAVE EVANS

CHILD CARE

ACCESS TO PUBLIC LANDS

AJAX STRIKERS

FIRST SPECIAL SERVICE FORCE

ROAD SAFETY

HIGHWAY BILLBOARDS

VISITORS

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

FAMILY CAREGIVER LEAVE ACT

(EMPLOYMENT STANDARDS

AMENDMENT), 2011 /

LOI DE 2011 SUR LE CONGÉ FAMILIAL

POUR LES AIDANTS NATURELS

(MODIFICATION DES NORMES D’EMPLOI)

RED TAPE AND REGULATORY

REVIEW ACT, 2011 /

LOI DE 2011 SUR LA RÉVISION

DES FORMALITÉS ADMINISTRATIVES

ET DES DISPOSITIONS

RÉGLEMENTAIRES

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY

AND RESPONSES

FAMILY CAREGIVER LEAVE

PETITIONS

SKILLED TRADES

AFFORDABLE HOUSING

EASTERN ONTARIO DEVELOPMENT

HEALTH CARE FUNDING

DOG OWNERSHIP

DIAGNOSTIC SERVICES

WIND TURBINES

TAXATION

SKILLED TRADES

DOG OWNERSHIP

PENSION PLANS

WIND TURBINES

TUITION

PRIVATE MEMBERS’

PUBLIC BUSINESS

INFRASTRUCTURE PROGRAM SPENDING

TAXATION

IMITATION FIREARMS REGULATION

AMENDMENT ACT, 2011 /

LOI DE 2011 MODIFIANT LA LOI

SUR LA RÉGLEMENTATION

DES FAUSSES ARMES À FEU

INFRASTRUCTURE PROGRAM SPENDING

TAXATION

IMITATION FIREARMS REGULATION

AMENDMENT ACT, 2011 /

LOI DE 2011 MODIFIANT LA LOI

SUR LA RÉGLEMENTATION

DES FAUSSES ARMES À FEU

TAXATION

The House met at 0900.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Please join me in prayer.

Prayers.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Please join me in a moment of silence and reflection, especially at this time of year, for those less fortunate.

The House observed a moment’s silence.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

HEALTHY HOMES RENOVATION

TAX CREDIT ACT, 2011 /

LOI DE 2011 SUR LE CRÉDIT D’IMPÔT

POUR L’AMÉNAGEMENT DU LOGEMENT

AXÉ SUR LE BIEN-ÊTRE

Resuming the debate adjourned on December 7, 2011, on the motion for second reading of Bill 2,

An Act to amend the Taxation Act, 2007 to implement a healthy homes renovation tax credit / Projet de loi 2, Loi modifiant la Loi de 2007 sur les impôts en vue de mettre en oeuvre le crédit d’impôt pour l’aménagement du logement axé sur le bien-être.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Questions and comments?

Mr. Jeff Leal: I did listen intently to what I thought was a very fine speech by the new member from Northumberland–Quinte West. He follows in the footsteps of a lot of very distinguished members from that riding.

First of all, we remind ourselves of the Rev. John Foote, VC, who represented that riding and of course was a member of the Frost and Robarts executive councils. He was the gentleman who, as padre, evacuated wounded Canadian soldiers from Dieppe in 1942.

He was followed by the Honourable Russell Rowe, who was a former Speaker of this Legislature and whose portrait is on the first floor of this august body; then by people like Joan Fawcett, who was always closely associated with the development of the Big Apple in Colborne, Ontario; Howard Sheppard, who had a great career here, and who went on to distinguish himself with the Hamilton mutual insurance company in Port Hope and Cobourg; Dr.

Doug Galt; and, of course, a friend to many in this House over the last eight years and a good friend of mine, Lou Rinaldi, who served this riding so ably over eight years—a former mayor of Brighton, Ontario. He and his family own Brighton Speedway, which has always been a great source of entertainment for many people in that area.

Certainly, we welcome the new member, a teacher at Campbellford high school and a beef farmer. We know that he will make a contribution to this chamber over the next number of years. I certainly welcome him and his family, who were with us yesterday when he delivered his maiden speech, which is always a very special occasion when a new member comes into this House. I wish him all the very best over the next number of years.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Interjections.

Mr. Rob Leone: Are we good?

Mr. John O’Toole: Go for it.

Mr. Rob Leone: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Sorry for the confusion. I thought it was me and apparently it still is, so that’s a good thing.

I’d also like to congratulate the member for Northumberland–Quinte West on his maiden speech and welcome him to this place. As one of our new 16-member rookie camp here, the MPP for Northumberland–Quinte West is certainly a valued addition to our team on this side of the House. He is a teacher and a farmer, both honourable professions.

Mr. Speaker, I met his family a while ago—a very strong family man—and I note that his great-grandfather, I think, was a member of this place many, many decades, maybe a century or more, ago.

I want to commend the member for his maiden speech. He had a great speech. He talked about his riding and about what it means to be in this place. I think we are all privileged, being 107 members of 13 million citizens of Ontario. When you put that number in that contrast, 107 people who get the privilege of serving in this Legislature, it really is truly an honour, and I look forward to working with the member for Northumberland–Quinte West as we move into our Christmas break and come back in the new year.

It’s always a great occasion to have a maiden speech and to be able to deliver it in this place. I love how he drew on the history from himself and from his riding. It’s always a great opportunity to have that linkage from our past and remember that we are privileged people. We are serving the people of Ontario, and I look forward to doing that with the member.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Mr. John Vanthof: I would also like to take this opportunity to comment on the maiden speech of the member from Northumberland–Quinte West. I really enjoyed the speech. It was obvious how proud you are of your family, how proud you are of where you came from. As a fellow farmer, I feel that down here, just like you did.

A lot of things you mentioned in your maiden speech were things that were the same in your riding as in my riding and in much of Ontario. You really laid out the goals you had for your riding, and I think deep down we all have goals within ourselves for our ridings. A lot of yours and mine matched. The water power thing is a big idea in Timiskaming–Cochrane.

Mr. Monte McNaughton: Funny how that is, John.

Mr. John Vanthof: Yeah, it’s funny how a lot of our things match.

But it really shone, though, how much the member—I think he represents all the members in this House, how much we truly believe in this system, how hard we are all willing to fight and argue. But we are all looking for the same goals: to make life better for the people of Ontario, make life better in our ridings—

Mr. Monte McNaughton: More affordable.

Mr. John Vanthof: More affordable—I’ll use that one.

But your speech really touched a chord in me. I think it touched a chord in anyone listening. Especially for rural people, it really touched a chord. I think your past as a teacher showed, because you taught us all something with your speech. Thank you very much.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Hon. James J. Bradley: Good. Glad to hear that. Pleased to engage in response.

I had a chance to hear the speech yesterday afternoon, and I want to say to the member, as one who has been here a few years, that the kind of politics in which we engage in our society today is substantially different, and I hope that he would join that group of people who want to see it revert to a more civil discourse. I think he mentioned in his speech, which I thought was commendable, that kind of discourse taking place. There are debates in this House that will generate some heat; a few that might even generate some light on the circumstances surrounding the province and what is needed to solve the challenges that the province has.

But I can say I’ve seen evolve over the years a different kind of politics that I know he will want to challenge. The personal attacks we tend to see all over now in politics around the world may have been there to a certain extent before, but they are creeping into our society now.

I can recall a somewhat more civil discourse that took place when I arrived here, and Mr. Davis—Premier Davis—was the Premier at the time. There were a number of people who had served a number of years. Yes, there were some, as I say, heated exchanges, but I think there was a good deal of respect when the debate was over amongst members and a sense of collegiality which I think is beneficial. There are those who don’t think that’s beneficial; I happen to think that is beneficial. So I was encouraged to hear the member say that he wanted to see the Legislature in its minority situation work well together, and I think that’s a commendable sentiment.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Further debate?

The member from Northumberland–Quinte West, you have two minutes to reply.

Mr. Rob E. Milligan: I would like to just thank the fine member from Peterborough for his kind comments and making due note of the distinguished members who have served my great riding of Northumberland–Quinte West in the past. You know, I honestly believe that those individuals have given Northumberland–Quinte West the best service that they could provide. They’ve obviously served with distinction. I’m very humbled to follow in their footsteps, and I will not let them down.

To the member from Cambridge, my esteemed colleague Rob Leone, I greatly appreciate Rob’s kind contributions and sentiments in working with him and others in this hallowed chamber for the betterment of every Ontarian.

For the member of Timiskaming–Cochrane, thank you very much for those kind words. It really does come from the heart as I’m sure it does from every member who stands in this chamber. They have a passion, they have beliefs that they want to stand up for, and they have to represent their constituents in a dignified manner. I just want to let you know that I’m obviously thankful to be here working with such fine individuals.

For the honourable Minister of the Environment, thank you very much. You’re absolutely right: One of my hopeful legacies is going to be one of civility. Obviously, heated debate is something that does occur. However, we must be mindful that we have to always be respectful of the individuals with whom we are dealing. You and everyone else here are elected officials, and our constituents expect the best.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): I would like to take this opportunity to remind the House of yesterday’s agreement concerning the rotation of the debate on this bill. The official opposition will now be skipped until the next round.

Further debate? The member from Peterborough.

Mr. Jeff Leal: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. First of all, I want to wish you my sincerest congratulations on being named Speaker in this House. I do know that you will do an incredible job. Of course, I believe your predecessor, the honourable Alvin Curling, was a Speaker and certainly did a very admirable job when he was in the Speaker’s chair. Your great history of public life here in Toronto, representing Scarborough so ably, many years on council there, then moving on to Metro council and now here at Queen’s Park—your community is truly proud, Mr. Speaker, of all your accomplishments over the last many years.

I had better get to the bill here, Bill 2, dealing with the healthy homes renovation tax credit. You know, I’ve had the opportunity over the last couple of weeks—I know I said in a two-minuter that I visited my friend Vance Robbins, who operates Anden kitchen and bath in Peterborough. He and I had a great discussion about this bill. There are a significant number of seniors in Peterborough riding.

I had the opportunity to chat with many of them during the 28-day campaign and over the last eight years that I’ve had the wonderful privilege of representing them in the riding of Peterborough, and to visit Activity Haven, which, in co-operation with the federal government—we’ve done some major renovations. They’re located on Bernardo Avenue in Peterborough. I think they’ve got about 3,000 or 4,000 members. They have activities there each and every day and a wide variety of programs to keep seniors active.

I had the opportunity to chat with them about the healthy homes renovation tax credit—and it doesn’t matter whether you spend $100 or $500 or $1,000, you can take advantage of the healthy homes renovation tax credit.

I do know, as I said, Vance Robbins at Anden kitchen and bath and Drew Merrett, who operates Home Hardware in Peterborough. In fact, Drew Merrett is the son-in-law of a former distinguished member from the riding of Peterborough, Mr. Gary Stewart. I’ve had the opportunity to meet with Drew, and he’s anxious to see seniors come into his Home Hardware, a very successful one. In fact, over the last year he’s installed solar panels on the top of his Home Hardware operation. Anybody that is in the Peterborough area over the next couple of weeks, it’s located on Lansdowne Street West.

They have customer service that is second to none. So I would encourage everybody to drop by Drew Merrett’s Home Hardware and get some pre-Christmas bargains.

Hon. James J. Bradley: I hope Drew is watching today.

Mr. Jeff Leal: Drew, in fact, may be watching this morning. He could very well be.

Hon. James J. Bradley: Send him a Hansard anyway.

Mr. Jeff Leal: I will do that. As my friend the member from St. Catharines said, I will send Drew the Hansard. I will send Vance the Hansard, too.

During the campaign, Mr. Speaker, I had the opportunity to visit the new Mapleridge seniors’ centre. It’s a brand new centre that was constructed on Brealey Drive in Peterborough. The land was donated by the Batten family, a long-distinguished family in Peterborough. They donated the property. The federal government, working with my federal colleague, Mr. Del Mastro, myself and the city of Peterborough—and the dollars that were raised at the Mapleridge seniors’ centre. I mean, I’ve gone to some of their fairs where they’ve been selling wonderful muffins and fresh apple pies, and just want to congratulate all the great work that they’ve done over many years to raise those dollars.

They opened a brand new centre on Brealey Drive. I got the opportunity to be there for the official opening, along with my good friend Councillor Jack Doris. Jack and his good buddy Glenn Padgett were here at Queen’s Park just recently to hear the speech from the throne: a real opportunity for those two gentlemen who have been in public life for many years in Peterborough, to come here and have the opportunity to see the throne speech. I must say, in Jack Doris’s case, he is a cousin of my good friend the member from Durham.

Mr. John O’Toole: Exactly. Good member. He was the mayor.

Mr. Jeff Leal: He was the mayor of Peterborough. But I must say that Jack, for many, many years, was a well-known Progressive Conservative, but in the last couple of years, he joined the Leal bandwagon to make sure there was effective representation here at Queen’s Park. In fact, Mr. Doris was the federal Progressive Conservative candidate in the federal election of 1972. He was a great admirer of Bob Stanfield. But I must say that Jack and Sheila and their family have seen the light; they had that Saul on the road to Damascus conversion, and now they’re with us to provide progressive leadership for the great folks in Peterborough riding.

Let me get back to the bill here. I think it has a lot of very positive aspects. It will help seniors stay in their homes longer. I know when I chat with the local CCAC in Peterborough, they’re very supportive of this measure.

We also have a lot of folks in Peterborough who want to have the opportunity to have a mother or dad come back into their home. This will give them the opportunity to renovate their home and retrofit it for a senior mother or father to bring that family back together, which is so important.

It will also relieve pressure on our long-term-care home costs and support 10,500 jobs per year, which I would say is a very conservative estimate for the impact of this particular initiative. It certainly will continue to support the home renovation sector here in Ontario with approximately $800 million.

We also look forward of course—part of our platform is to add three million more hours of home care in the province of Ontario. We look forward to making that happen over the next number of years.

If passed, this bill will become effective October 1, 2011. So I say to the residents of Peterborough riding, anybody who was involved in any home renovation projects for seniors after October 1, keep those receipts. Put them away in a safe spot in order to make the claim on your 2011 income tax.

This program, of course, will be funded through our fiscal measures, adding no more to our fiscal outlays here in the province of Ontario, and it will be offset by savings in other areas that we all contemplate will happen in the next little while.

Certainly, Mr. Speaker, this is a take-up similar to that of the federal 2009 home renovation tax credit. Up to 380,000 people benefit from that credit each and every year. I know my friend yesterday, my colleague from York West, certainly outlined to people in this chamber all the things that can be done: grab bars, easy-access showers, a chairlift to get upstairs.

Just recently, I was in the home of Tom Symons, the founding president of Trent University, and because of Tom’s mobility challenge, he has installed a chairlift in his home on Park Street. In fact, the Symons home was right beside a former Speaker’s home: John Turner, who was the Speaker here from 1981 to 1985.

You can see that this credit is historic, as my friend from Trinity–Spadina would say, an historic development here for the province of Ontario.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Mr. John O’Toole: I first want to sort of—it might be my only time today, but I have a very important announcement. I wish everyone to pay attention. Last night, there was the press gallery party here, and I had a phone call, and it was my daughter calling from England. She just had a baby last night.

Applause.

Mr. Ernie Hardeman: Was it a boy or a girl?

Mr. John O’Toole: It was a little boy, yes. I’m very proud. She lives in Sevenoaks, which is in Kent, just outside London. She’s a teacher there. I’m very happy. This is her third child. Her name is Marnie Lines, and I thought that was more important.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Boy or girl?

Mr. John O’Toole: It was a little boy. Now she has three boys.

Mr. Ted Chudleigh: How much does he weigh?

Mr. John O’Toole: I believe he was eight pounds, but they do everything in metric, I guess.

Mr. Ted Chudleigh: You mean the imperial system is gone in England? Is nothing sacred?

Mr. John O’Toole: Yeah, the imperial system. Anyway, I found that the most wonderful Christmas gift is to have a healthy grandchild—our ninth grandchild.

When it comes to this senior credit here, I might need it before many other people here. I would qualify, except perhaps I have—the problem is there are too many arcane little rules around it. You can’t increase the value of your home; that doesn’t make any sense at all to me.

Mr. Ted Chudleigh: You’ve got to do a crappy job.

Mr. John O’Toole: Yes, you have to hire somebody who’s not competent, I guess.

In fact, many seniors that I talked to during the election were quite concerned about paying their electricity bill. I thought the NDP, a couple of weeks ago, had a very good idea. Tim Hudak, our leader—we had the same idea in our playbook. That was to give all consumers the HST off their hydro bill. I think that credit would have gone a long way to making life more affordable for everyone in Ontario. That bill, although it passed—because the opposition is now the majority in the House, and we voted united, together, which is a good thing.

Here’s another bill that doesn’t really help anyone except by raising money for the government; it’s a tax.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Mr. Paul Miller: I’d just like to start off by congratulating the member for Peterborough on his third maiden speech and for the tour of Peterborough. Thanks very much.

Actually, Speaker, I’ve heard some debate across the floor about, “Well, you don’t have to spend the $10,000; you can spend $2,000 or $3,000.” I don’t know what you can get for 2,000 bucks, but not too much these days.

On the $10,000, if you had the $10,000, and if you could even borrow the $10,000—most seniors can’t get a lot of loans from the banks to borrow, anyway, but if you could get the $10,000, you’re going to pay $1,300 on HST—that’s a great savings—and they’re going to give you $1,500 back. So you’ve got 200 bucks in your pocket, and by the time you pay the hydro bill for the week, you’ve got nothing.

Mr. Rosario Marchese: Historic.

Mr. Paul Miller: It’s historic, all right. It’s the best shell game I’ve seen in a while.

Of course, then they’ll say, “Well, you guys should vote for it.” Because it’s something for the public and we naturally like to help them, we’ll vote for it, even though they’re being tricked again.

Once again, we’ve got a half—I don’t want to say the word—a half you-know-what bill with no substance and a lot of malarkey. We’ll be more than happy to—probably I’ll have to stand up and put on that face I put on when I have to vote with you all the time; I’ll be very upset. I’ll have to go and have an Alka-Seltzer or something after because I’ll be upset. And it will happen again, I’m sure, to the glee and pleasure of the members.

By the way, if you want to be serious about it, I don’t know what $10,000 is going to do for the people who live in those reserves up north. You know they’re living in tents. They’re starving. They’re living in sheds. Let’s be a little realistic. If you want to really help the people of this province, take the HST off the renovation costs and take the HST off the builders that are doing it.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments? The member for York West.

Mr. Mario Sergio: Thank you, Speaker, and congratulations. That looks very nice; I wish you would stay there for a long time.

I have to congratulate our member here, our colleague from Peterborough, for a well-thought discussion on Bill 2. I have to say that—and thank God—we have some 600, 700 nursing homes that we put our seniors in because they have needs to be in there.

At the same time, for seniors who are not at that particular stage in their life and they are still living in their home, and they want to live in their home longer and, hopefully, have a safer and healthier life, I think we should do everything we can to allow them to live longer in their home. As the member for Peterborough was saying, it doesn’t matter how many seniors this would benefit; it does not matter. There are other benefits in there that include all the seniors, all the low-income seniors, the middle-income seniors.

I think my friend the member from Trinity–Spadina should be familiar with those benefits, but for his information, just in case he is not aware, seniors already enjoy a number of other benefits, such as $625 a year for the Ontario seniors’ home properties, and the Ontario energy and property tax credit: $900 to a maximum of $1,025. They already enjoy 10% off their hydro bill. Of the low- to middle-income seniors, 93% don’t pay any more provincial taxes, which is a saving of $355 a year, and a new home—

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Thank you.

Mr. Mario Sergio: Mr. Speaker, my time is up. Thank you so much for your time.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Mr. Todd Smith: Thank you for the tour of Peterborough. I go to Peterborough often for business and know a lot of people in the member’s riding. I know the Dalliday family very well—a very good family, Gary and Pete Dalliday.

Mr. Jeff Leal: They’re friends of mine, too.

Mr. Todd Smith: Yes, they’re friends of mine, too. We’ll have a chat about you when I see them next; that’s for sure.

I did get a nice Christmas card from the member a few days ago. He has a lovely family, and I know they’re going to enjoy their gifts from the Home Hardware store there, as I know that’s where the member will be doing most of his shopping.

I would also like to congratulate my colleague Mr. O’Toole from Durham on the birth of his ninth grandchild. That’s something else. Way to go. Unbelievable.

Hon. James J. Bradley: He doesn’t look that old.

Mr. Todd Smith: I know, but he is that old, sir, and that’s why he is concerned about this healthy homes renovation tax credit, or, as I like to call it, the wealthy homes renovation tax credit, because you have to have a lot of money in order to take advantage of this. If the government over on the other side has $60 million or so to throw around on seniors, I think it should be a little bit more focused on something that’s actually going to provide help to seniors.

As I said yesterday and several times in the House when I’ve had the opportunity to comment on this wealthy homes renovation tax credit, the seniors in Prince Edward–Hastings just don’t have $10,000 at their disposal to improve their homes. What they would rather have is what we proposed during the election campaign and what we’ve teamed up to do with our colleagues from the NDP: to provide a break on HST on home heating fuel. That’s the way to go. That’s going to create more money in the economy. It’s going to create jobs and sustain the jobs that we have.

So we need to give some relief to families who can’t afford $10,000 on home renovations right now, especially at this time of year, when perhaps they’d go shopping at the Home Hardware in Peterborough. Thank you.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Further debate?

Member for Peterborough, you have two minutes to respond.

Mr. Jeff Leal: Thanks very much, Mr. Speaker. I want to sincerely thank the members from Durham, Hamilton East–Stoney Creek, York West and Prince Edward–Hastings in providing some commentary on the remarks I made this morning.

It’s 9:30. I’m just told that people are lined up right now in front of Drew Merrett’s Home Hardware on Lansdowne Street West. I gave him the opportunity of a little free publicity. I’m told they’re lined up at Gus’s and Anden’s. They’re all flocking this morning to take advantage of this healthy homes renovation tax credit.

But on a more serious note, my good friend the member from Prince Edward–Hastings had mentioned the Dalliday family. Two weeks ago they had a fundraiser for Tim Dalliday in Peterborough. Tim has just received a liver transplant that he was waiting for for a very long time. Karen and I had the opportunity to join with Gary and Donna and their families at a fundraising event at the historic Montreal House in Peterborough, which in fact is right across from my constituency office.

All of the community came together in Peterborough to raise money for Tim Dalliday, for his wife and their family, to make their Christmas a little better as he recuperates from the liver transplant that was performed by a great medical team right here in Toronto.

But I do know, Mr. Speaker, that when I get home this evening to Peterborough, I’ll get a report from some of these small businesses that we gave a little publicity to this morning, encouraging those seniors in the Peterborough riding—perhaps this morning they’re at an event at Activity Haven or Mapleridge seniors’ centre—to get down to Home Hardware, Home Depot, Rona, all those great businesses in my community, to take advantage of the healthy homes renovation tax credit and make their homes ready for seniors. Thanks so much.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Further debate? The member from—I’ve got a problem there—

Interjection: Mississauga–Streetsville.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): The member from Mississauga–Streetsville.

Mr. Bob Delaney: Good morning, Speaker. I would think that after all the time that we’d served together, if I can remember Scarborough–Rouge River, perhaps you can remember Mississauga–Streetsville.

Interjections.

Mr. Bob Delaney: It’s the day before Christmas and the spirit of goodwill will pervade throughout the House.

It’s a pleasure to get up here and to greet my fellow members and to congratulate the member from Durham on his ninth grandchild. Speaker, this is a member that I’ve had the privilege of serving opposite for a long time. He’s a good hockey player and he keeps talking about being a senior, but he can still play hockey like a guy who is merely a fraction of his age. It’s always a pleasure to go into the dressing room and get ready to play with the member from Durham.

We’re here to talk about something that’s important to me as a member of the baby boom generation and important to a lot of my constituents in our neighbourhoods of Lisgar, Meadowvale and Streetsville, and that’s this healthy home renovation tax credit. The need for that tax credit is driven by some of the demographics we see here in the legislative chamber on this, the Thursday before the Christmas recess, and the demographics that we see in our communities, not merely in western Mississauga but all across the province of Ontario.

Those essential demographics are basically this: For every senior in our communities now, every person aged 65 and over, when we, the baby boomers, are ourselves mostly in our senior years—and I say that because on January 1, 2011, the first member of the baby boom generation, that generation born between the years of 1946 and 1966, turned 65 years old, on New Year’s Day of this year. The baby boomers are gradually and quickly moving into their senior years, so we have to be ready.

Those decisions that we make as a Legislature now are going to have a great deal of impact on the generation that follows the seniors who are now the ones who will be the beneficiaries of the healthy home renovation tax credit.

For every senior alive today, when the baby boomers are themselves mostly seniors, there will be two. For every octogenarian person, aged 80 or above, alive today, when we, the baby boomers, are ourselves mostly in our 80s—a frightening thought for all of us—there will be three. What are we going to do? Should we be building more and more facilities for our seniors? Yes, we have to do that as well. But where do seniors really want to age? When we’ve asked them that, when they’ve come to our meetings, they’ve been virtually unanimous: They’d like to age at home.

They’d like to age in the place that they raised their children and the community they have lived in for the last however many years. Seniors would like to age at home.

That’s basically what this healthy home renovation tax credit is all about. It isn’t about making your home more saleable, because that’s not what seniors want to do. What they really need to do is to say, “I don’t get on as well as I did; I need a ramp to be able to get up to my house. I can’t negotiate the stairs; I’d like to be able to build a ramp.” That’s the sort of thing that the healthy home renovation tax credit is there to do: help them build a ramp. If you’re having trouble getting up the stairs, it helps you build a lift that gets you up the stairs.

Even in things that are smaller—for example, most staircase railings are more decorative than they are functional. How can we take some of the things in our homes that may be decorative and make them functional, like reinforced stair railings? It’s not a big thing, but it’s an important thing. The healthy home renovation tax credit would enable people to do that as well.

Speaker, the cost of the healthy home renovation tax credit is offset by savings in other areas. I think Ontarians grasped, during the election, when our party came out and we offered the fewest promises of the three, and our promises were all fully costed and the others were not, and our promises were the lowest cost platform of the three—the highest, by the way, were the Conservatives: 10 times the price of the programs that were offered by the Liberals; 10 times. So, it was a frugal platform, and this is one of the things that we say, “We can fund this by finding savings in other areas.”

Now, I’ve talked about some of the things that you can do with the healthy home renovation tax credit. You can also make your bathroom a lot more functional. A lot of times, seniors say, “I’d like to have a tub that I can get into and get out of. This mitigates the need for people to need to come in to assist me with bathing and whatnot.” But it also is part of a whole series of measures that make life more liveable for seniors.

For example, all seniors—indeed, all Ontarians—received a permanent cut in their Ontario personal taxes on January 1, 2010: important to remind you. Many seniors had themselves removed permanently from the Ontario tax rolls in 2010: another benefit. The Ontario clean energy benefit takes 10% off of your electricity bill. Now, some of the other parties are saying, “Well, we want to take the HST off of your electricity bill.” Well, in other words, what they want to do is increase your electricity cost by 2%, and we’re against that. We don’t think that seniors should have their electricity costs raised.

We took 10% off, and not just off the electricity portion but off the whole thing. Off the entire thing, including the distribution cost, and they conveniently forget to mention that. We took 10% off the whole bill, period.

The other thing that seniors have is their senior energy and property tax credit. What does that amount to? It amounts to all of the HST on some $13,750 worth of things that have not been taxed before. For seniors, that covers a lot of the HST, or probably all of it, that you’ll pay in being able to use the tax credit proposed in this bill.

There’s also the sales tax credit. Each and every year, each person is eligible for a sales tax credit equivalent to all of the HST on $6,250 worth of purchases that had not been taxed before. You add that to the senior energy and property tax credit and what you’ve got is all of the HST on about $20,000 paid for for a senior couple.

Now, the other guys just keep wanting to rebate you the same thing twice, but they don’t tell you what they’re going to cut in order to do it. They don’t tell you how much they’re going to raise your taxes in order to do it. We’re not going to raise your taxes. We’ve said that very clearly: We’re not going to raise your taxes. The Conservatives say that they’re going to raise your taxes, but we’re not going to raise your taxes.

If, as a senior, you’re helping your grandchildren get through university, you should know that your grandchildren, beginning next year, have a 30% tuition cut: another thing that’s going to ease some of the pressure that you may feel to help your family members, your children and your grandchildren get along.

So this particular tax credit, Speaker, the healthy homes tax credit, is just one of a whole series of measures that are income-tested. Some of the members opposite have talked about, “Oh, well, we should take the HST off of both electricity and gas.” So who are the major beneficiaries? They’re not going to be you, if you’re a senior, because you already have your HST taken off of that. But they will benefit you if you have a monster home.

I don’t think asking people of very modest means to subsidize more tax credits to the very wealthy is a good idea, and when I went out door-knocking in the neighbourhoods of Lisgar and Meadowvale and Streetsville, my neighbours didn’t think so either. That’s why they voted for us and our platform and not for them and their platform.

This healthy homes tax credit, this tax credit that allows you to renovate your home, as a senior, to make it a little bit easier to stay there; to make it easier to get up and down your stairs; to make it a little bit easier to install a ramp so you can get in and out of your house; to make it a little bit easier to get around inside your house; to do the things that you, as a senior, know that, as you can’t get along and get around as much as you used to—how you spend that tax credit is something that’s up to you. Make your life simpler, easier. Make your house more manageable your way. It’s not prescriptive.

It’s one of the things that allows you to custom-tailor how your tax credit is going to get spent in your circumstances, in your house, on your time and on your terms.

Combined with the permanent reduction in taxes, combined with the fact that for most seniors, they’ve been pretty much permanently removed from the tax rolls—if you’re below about $40,000 worth of income you no longer pay any income tax at all—combined with the fact that the senior energy and property tax credit plus the sales tax credit give you back all of the HST on nearly $20,000 worth of purchases made, I think this is a good addition and a good thing to support.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Mr. John O’Toole: Now, I would say the member from Mississauga–Streetsville was very kind in his response in how fortunate I am to have another grandchild.

But when he got into the hockey part, he didn’t tell the whole story: He was actually the goalie. We actually had a pretty good team until you got to the blue line, and from there on it was a bit—but it got tweaked. He was very attentive. He always let everyone get a goal, so that they felt included. No, but he was a good team player, and we did have a lot of fun and hopefully will again. But the issue there is Jean-Marc Lalonde, who was a member here before, a great and very popular member: His main duty over there was to arrange the hockey and the games and the tournaments and stuff like that. He’s no longer with us, so I don’t know whether there will be more hockey, to be honest.

But on the bill itself, I think he’s really kind of again missing the point. It’s sort of like trying to do everything for everyone and doing nothing for anyone. That’s what I see this bill doing. It sounds good because I have heard from seniors that they’re finding it difficult. With the cost of living and whether it’s the price of gasoline, municipal taxes, your hydro bill, your cable bill, if you aren’t making $30,000 a year today, you are probably the working poor today, honestly, if you have house insurance, auto insurance. The auditor’s report told us everything is costing more—pretty well everything.

He went right down the list. Energy was the most critical file by the Auditor General. If you went down to the next part, it was auto insurance.

I would say that the track we’re on is that seniors do need help. This bill doesn’t do it. In fact, I think it’s right backward. Why can’t you, if you’re spending $10,000, increase the value of your home? What’s so wrong about that? You know, our member from Mississauga–Streetsville is a well-intentioned, kind-hearted person. Thanks for the good remarks, but you should read the bill again and have a look at it because, really, it doesn’t do what you think it does.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Mr. Rosario Marchese: Just a couple of things to my friend from Mississauga–Streetsville: I appreciate all the comments you made and all the other Liberals are making around this.

But I’m not quite sure, when you say it is not prescriptive, that it is correct. You’re saying people have a choice, and you make it appear like they can if they want to, and they don’t have to if they don’t. The simple point I make to you is that it’s not a matter of choice; it’s a matter of affordability. And so if you can afford it, my suspicion is that they will do it. I would. If I don’t have the money, I just won’t be able to. So your notion about not prescriptive is entirely wrong, is the one point.

Connected to that, I say that if this program only serves 1% of the population, do you not feel a tad guilty about the one-percenters versus the 99% of the seniors who won’t be eligible and won’t be able to take advantage? In other words, do you feel somewhat bad or guilty that only the very wealthy will have access to a program that you argue is a good program?

I would like you to comment on that because those two points are, in my mind, very important. I hope you and the Liberals would distance yourselves from the one-percenters, and that you are with the other folks, the Toronto protestors that have been saying that we are with the 99%. Again, the one-percenters. I’d like to know where you stand on that one.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Mr. Yasir Naqvi: Thank you very much, Speaker, for giving me the opportunity to make a brief comment in response to the remarks that were offered by the member Mississauga–Streetsville. I really appreciate the member’s comments about the impact or who will benefit from the proposal from the opposition members that it’s a too simplistic view about taking the HST off home heating, that it really does not have the desired effect that’s being purported, that it’s going to be some sort of relief across the board for everyone.

If you look at it from a public policy point of view, every expert will tell you that those who will benefit the most from that type of relief are those who own big homes, who use a lot of heating. So I think the same arguments about choice that the member from Trinity–Spadina was making will apply to the proposal that has been presented here.

What the healthy home renovation tax credit does, in fact, is that it’s a targeted relief to seniors to attain a certain goal, the goal being that the seniors can continue to live in their own home as long as possible. I think that is what we are trying to achieve.

Just giving a broad tax relief which is not targeted in any way whatsoever and, in fact, is going to undermine conservation—that’s your proposal—because it’s going to make it easy for people to just burn as much oil as possible to heat their homes, is not going to reach any goal whatsoever. Therefore, I’m very supportive of the healthy home renovation tax credit.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments? The member from Barrie.

Mr. Rod Jackson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’ll take a moment just to congratulate you, too, on your new position as Deputy Speaker.

I’d just like to take a couple of moments, too, to speak to the healthy home tax credit. As my colleague mentioned, it’s probably better termed the wealthy renovation tax credit. Let’s just call it what it is.

Mr. Rosario Marchese: Are you with the one-percenters or the 99-percenters?

Mr. Rod Jackson: Let’s go with the 99-percenters on this one.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Member for Trinity–Spadina, come to order.

Mr. Rod Jackson: Let’s call this what it is, really, which is window-dressing for the Liberals. This isn’t addressing anything of any substance. It’s more of what we’ve seen in other stuff; it’s smoke and mirrors.

What we really need is to create relief for everybody across the board. If we really want to help seniors, let’s get more long-term-care beds, more home care for seniors. My own grandmother is 90 years old, and my grandmother is not going to be able to use this tax credit to any sort of advantage to herself whatsoever, nor will any of the seniors whose doors I knocked on.

When I knocked on seniors’ doors—and I knocked on 50,000 doors in this election, for several months. Over and over again, what people showed me was their hydro bill and their heating bills. We don’t have a choice in Ontario about whether or not we heat our homes. We offered a program, along with the NDP, that will give people broad tax relief—seniors of all income levels. Wealthy seniors will do their renovations regardless. Poor seniors will no more readily be able to pay the $8,500 portion than the $10,000, under this bill, than they would have before. It only helps a very small group of rich and poor, and there will only be a small subgroup in the middle that this will actually benefit.

We need broader relief for everybody in this economy. Further to that, do we really even know how much it costs? We’re talking about $135 million a year. What is it, really? What do you mean by this?

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): The member from Mississauga–Streetsville, two minutes to reply.

Mr. Bob Delaney: I have to say to my colleague from Durham—who has been an old friend for a while, and we do enjoy needling each other in the Legislature—the thing that the member for Durham has to remember is that you never let your goalie get in the last word. Do you know the hardest thing about the shot from the member from Durham? It’s waiting for it to arrive. We of the goal-tending fraternity refer to it as the “dying quail wrist-shot.”

To my friend from Trinity–Spadina: I think my colleague summed it up exquisitely. If I remember his words correctly, he said, “You can if you want to, but you don’t have to if you don’t need to”—perfect. That’s exactly right. That’s all it is. If you actually need to do this sort of thing, you can.

This is a bill for the 90% who do need help—

Mr. Rosario Marchese: The 99%.

Mr. Bob Delaney: The 90%, 99%; let’s call it what we wish—with simple things like ramps; like reinforcing your railings; with lifts; with a tub. This is the sort of thing that you need to do; you’ve got your choice to do it.

Now, you see, Speaker, the member for Ottawa, he gets it. He gets it: This is for people of modest means, to enable them to make their homes more accessible to themselves as seniors to allow them to do the thing that they want to do, which is to stay in their homes. They don’t believe the member from Barrie—by the way, congratulations on your election. The member for Barrie is proposing measures that aren’t going to help seniors stay in their homes. He may not want his seniors to stay in their homes, but we do, and that’s the reason for the healthy homes renovation tax credit—simple things like tubs, lifts, ramps and things that help you stay in your home as a senior.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Further debate?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I’m very happy to be able to stand to talk about the healthy homes renovation tax credit because I think it is something that needs to be put in a context of a number of issues that we’re confronting as a society. I think it’s plain to all of us that there are quite a few people coming—

Mr. John O’Toole: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker: I was wondering about the rotation. The last speaker from the Liberal side had their 10 minutes. It actually should have gone to our member.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): I didn’t see your member standing.

Mr. John O’Toole: He was getting up. I’m not trying to be difficult. I’m raising a point that the floor actually belonged to our side.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Mr. Speaker, I’m happy to cede and speak after.

Mr. John O’Toole: If I could get him to stand quickly, that would be good. Thanks.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): The chair will recognize the member from Cambridge.

Mr. Rob Leone: Thank you. Merry Christmas. Thanks for that gift. I appreciate that.

I’m happy to stand here on behalf of our PC Party here in the Legislature to talk about the healthy homes renovation tax credit. I share a lot of the comments on this side of the House with respect to this bill and with respect to the fact that our seniors have to have $10,000 to be able to afford a renovation of the kind that they are looking for. If we look at how much these lifts cost, they’re very expensive. Any modifications are very expensive. You have to have that money in the bank before you can actually do that.

Mr. Speaker, quite frankly, if you have the money in the bank to spend on a renovation of this nature, you’re probably going to do it whether there’s a tax credit or not because it’s about improving the quality of life and sometimes even improving longevity of life. Folks who have the money to do that are going to do it, whether they have the tax credit or not.

I want to spend some time talking today about the beauty of this place, Mr. Speaker. We are, as I mentioned earlier today, 107 men and women who have the privilege and distinction of serving in this place. Out of 13 million Ontarians, 107 people. When I heard Speaker Peters actually say that—former Speaker Peters, I should say, Mr. Speaker—for the first time, that, I think, was the moment where it started to sink in for when I became a member of provincial Parliament.

This whole thing was a long journey, a journey that all of us had to make. We’ve all had different twists and turns. But it was at that moment, sitting in this place, this beautiful place, looking at the great features of this Legislature, looking at the eagle and the owl and all the sculptures and all the carvings of the wood in this place, that it really started to sink in that I was the member of provincial Parliament for Cambridge.

Before I came to this place, Mr. Speaker I was a university professor. I have a Ph.D. in political science, so I had a long interest in studying parliamentary institutions. A lot of my favourite theorists are still at the back of my mind when I come to this place.

For example, A.V. Dicey was a man who was very well versed in our parliamentary institutions. He talked at length about the supremacy of Parliament, the supremacy of our parliamentary institutions. We are in a place that makes the laws on behalf of the citizens of the province of Ontario. We do that every day that we sit here, and we talk to constituents when we’re not in this place. And so, thinking about that in the beauty of this building, that we are a supreme body making laws on behalf of Ontarians, really strikes me even further, Mr. Speaker.

Blackstone talked also about the supremacy of this place. He suggested that our Legislature and parliamentary institutions right across the world have a capacity to do anything, and he cited the example: do anything except make “a woman a man, and a man a woman.” That was his famous quote, and I think modern technology even allows us to do that, if we so permit.

That just speaks to the power of what we do in this Legislature, the power that we have as legislators, talking about laws and policies and regulations that govern citizens. It is a very important thing. We are very privileged to have a seat here to talk about those things that are important to our constituents and are important to the future of the province of Ontario.

Mr. Speaker, another one of those famous philosophers that I like to follow is a gentleman by the name of Edmund Burke. Edmund Burke had a famous speech at Bristol that he gave in 1776; 1776 was a long, long time ago, certainly a longer time—we weren’t around at that time. Maybe the member from Durham was around back then, but I’m not really sure.

But, Mr. Speaker, he talked about the role of the MP—he was talking about British Parliament. He talked about that role as having a dual function: a function of representing constituents in your riding, and the other function being representing the interests of the whole, representing the interests of the entire country. He was talking about Britain, but we can extrapolate that. Not only are we, as MPPs, here in this Legislature representing our constituents, but we’re also governing the whole of the province of Ontario, which makes my seat in this place even more special, given all that I have learned in my educational career.

Mr. Speaker, that’s exactly what I’ve been doing since I was elected as representing my constituents. I created—we have a resolution passed in this House that talks about holding the government accountable for their infrastructure announcements, particularly related to hospital expansions. I tabled a bill yesterday that is called the Protection of Child Care Centres Act. Hopefully, we can talk reasonably about moving that to second and third reading going forward. These are important aspects of what I have done in this House to represent my constituents, and I hope to continue to do that in my seat here.

Mr. Speaker, I have achieved a lot of success in my 32 years of age. I have a Ph.D. in political science, as I mentioned earlier. I achieved the highest academic honour. I ran a small business, and I even published my first book this year.

But, Mr. Speaker, the one thing that I’m most proud of is being a husband to my wife, Kate, and a father to my two boys. My oldest boy’s name is Alex—Alexander. He’s a bright kid. He just turned four in November, and he is already reading. He actually got to read his first book to his class last week. My youngest boy’s name is Aiden. He is only seven months old, Mr. Speaker, and he—I just got a video from my wife this week—has started to commando crawl, which is a very big milestone in his life and something that, unfortunately, I had to see on video and not in person.

So, Mr. Speaker, that speaks to a lot of the sacrifice that members in this House have to make to actually be in this place. I think it’s very important to understand that we do make a sacrifice to be here, but we are doing that because of the privilege that is awarded to us by our constituents, and that sacrifice in the name of public service, to talk about the future of the province of Ontario, is a very important thing that we should never lose sight of.

And despite all the partisanship we often see in this place—and we hear that a lot, that our politics has become too partisan—we should never lose sight of the fact that each one of us in this place has made a tremendous sacrifice to be here, and we should always be considerate of others who have made a similar sacrifice as well.

That sacrifice came to my parents as well. I want to give special mention to my parents, who immigrated to this country, like many Ontarians did, in the 1960s. Why did they immigrate to Ontario? They came here to give a better life to their kids and grandkids. You know, when I look my kids in the eye, when I see their faces, I want to be able to say that I gave to them and made a similar sacrifice to make sure their lives will be better, Mr. Speaker.

That’s the reason why I decided to run to be MPP for Cambridge. I am so blessed to have the privilege to serve my constituents and be able to look my children in the eye and say that I have done everything that I possibly could in my life to make theirs better. We should never lose sight of that goal of making our children and our grandchildren have the future that we had—at least as good, if not better. We should be doing that on a daily basis and considering that as we go forward.

We all make a tremendous sacrifice. We all have ideas about how we can improve life for Ontario. I look forward to having those debates about the future because that is, in essence, what we do here.

Finally, I want to say thank you to the people of Cambridge and North Dumfries for giving me the opportunity to serve here. I’m proud to serve my great riding that is formed by the city of Cambridge and the township of North Dumfries. It’s a great place to live, work and raise a family. I look forward to discussing ideas that will improve their lives in addition to improving the lives of all people in this great province.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Mr. Rosario Marchese: I have to say, I enjoyed the comments made by the member from Cambridge. I liked the tone by which he delivered his speech.

I want to say that there are a lot of Italian-Canadians that historically have been Liberals, of course—God bless. In the 1970s, we had quite a few Italian-Canadian MPPs, which was a change based on the politics of the 1970s. Many within the Italian community turned to New Democrats as a solution to many of the social and economic problems, particularly as it relates to workers’ compensation, of course, welfare and pension-related issues. So we were able to draw a great deal of support.

Sadly, I have observed that there are many young Italian-Canadians that have gone to the Conservative Party, and I’m a bit alarmed by that. I’m hoping there will be a day when they will come back to the NDP and find a home with us, of course, a party that speaks to social and economic justice issues, and that connects to 99% of the population, by and large.

But speaking to the tone of the member from Cambridge that I liked, he talks about the humanity that speaks to the politics of the Conservative Party because they say—and we disagree with it—they’re worried about people, and I like that part. That’s the progressive part of the Conservative because, for so many years, the libertarian component of the Conservative Party has frightened me a little bit. So when I hear that human part of the Conservative Party, that progressive part makes you feel good. God bless.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I want to commend the member for Cambridge on his maiden speech and welcome him to the Legislature. I think that most of us—all of us—never lose that sense of awe when we walk into this beautiful building.

But I also do want to comment, Mr. Speaker, on the healthy homes renovation tax credit, because that is what we’re talking about this morning. I want to put it in the context of a number of changes and initiatives that have to happen in our society if we’re going to accommodate the number of people who are aging—and I among them—the number of baby boomers who are going to need to have options. I believe that this tax credit is about options.

The member from Trinity–Spadina, I think, spoke about only the wealthy. This isn’t only about the wealthy. This is about people who need choices. I think of my own parents, 85 and 83. They’re determined to stay in their home. They’re going to need a bit of encouragement to spend the money that they’re going to need to spend in order to be able to stay in their home that they’ve been in for 48 years, that has stairs, and they’re going to need some support. That’s what this kind of initiative is about.

I think about Edna Beange, who is a member of the Don Valley West community; she lives in Leaside. She is a former East York councillor. She has spent years working on initiatives with businesses to make them more senior-friendly, to make them more accessible to people who are living in the community and need to have access to businesses.

We all need to make sure that we provide them, and that’s what this is about.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Mr. Rod Jackson: It’s a great privilege actually to be able to stand and welcome my fellow member from Cambridge to the House. I know that it is a place that we all hold in high esteem, and we’re all very proud to be here.

It was also really nice to be blessed with my first lecture from Dr. Leone today. I only hope that by the end of the session, I get a passing grade.

Mr. Robert Bailey: Maybe the Liberals will start to listen to him.

Mr. Rod Jackson: So today I received a lecture from Dr. Leone, and I got an infomercial from the member from Peterborough earlier. You never know what you’re going to find in this House, and that’s part of the beauty of it: listening to all the other voices that we hear in here. I think listening is key.

I said earlier in my maiden speech that we don’t really understand ourselves what we’re saying if we don’t listen first. So I think it’s really key that, as the member from Cambridge brought up, it’s an opportunity for us to listen to each other and have good, informed debate and listen to what each other has to say so that we can serve our communities as best we can.

In the short time I’ve known the member from Cambridge, I’ve known him to be very thoughtful and to put his best foot forward in helping his constituents. In the very short time we’ve been in this session, he has been a busy guy and, certainly, I’ve enjoyed watching him. I know I will enjoy working with the member over the next hopefully two and a half to four years—

Interjections.

Mr. Rod Jackson: Forever; for eternity.

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Order.

Mr. Rod Jackson: You just never know what you’re going to end up with in this House, as I mentioned before.

I would like to thank the member from Cambridge for his great maiden speech on the fly and for all your hard work. I look forward to working with you over the next several years.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments? The member from Parkdale–High Park.

Ms. Cheri DiNovo: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and may I say congratulations to you? I haven’t said that yet. You look good there.

I want to congratulate the member from Cambridge on his maiden speech. I was totally blown away; I didn’t know that he had a doctorate in political science. I have to admit that I was bit shocked: I thought you had to come from the left to get a doctorate in political science and teach in a Canadian university. But welcome, nonetheless.

It’s also good, and I want to echo my friend from Trinity–Spadina in saying this, to hear that Progressive—progressive—Conservative voice, because that’s the voice I grew up with. It was certainly not a libertarian voice; it was certainly not socially conservative. It was fiscally conservative, but it was socially progressive. That’s something that it would be nice to see really reflected in conservatism generally in Canada, not just in Ontario. So I welcome that voice in this chamber as well.

Mr. Rosario Marchese: I might get to like you guys.

Ms. Cheri DiNovo: Absolutely, absolutely—and to uphold, of course, as we all should do, this chamber itself, and just to say that it is of course an honour for all of us to serve. And, really, thank goodness we have various voices in this House, because I think we can all agree that we don’t want a one-state solution in any of our jurisdictions.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Thank you. The member from Cambridge, you have two minutes to respond.

Mr. Rob Leone: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to thank the member for Trinity–Spadina, the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing, the member for Barrie and the member for Parkdale–High Park.

I have to say to the member for Parkdale–High Park: I wish I was at your dinner conversations, because I know it probably was highly contentious to have both sides, and certainly you’re an outspoken member of this House. That would have been pretty entertaining to see.

The member for Durham actually came beside me today and said that I should read you the title of my book—and it might do members of that side of the House some good to read it. It’s called Approaching Public Administration: Core Debates and Emerging Issues. It’s co-edited by my good friend Frank Ohemeng from the University of Ottawa, and it’s available from Emond Montgomery press. If you’re really excited, I can sign you a copy. Maybe we could do a book signing outside this chamber, Mr. Speaker, and we could go forward there.

I really want to thank all for the comments that I’ve received on that maiden speech. The member from Barrie actually let the cat out of the hat that I actually wrote that about five minutes before I had to say it, so I apologize if I made any mistakes. But I do want to say that I miss the lectures, so if I get to do that more often in this place and inform members on both sides of the House of some information that I might have stored inside myself, I’m willing to share that at any given moment, in as non-partisan a fashion as possible—when possible, I should say; certainly not totally there.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Family is obviously a very important thing to me in my life. I know a lot of members in this place share that, and we should always respect and honour them as often as we can.

Second reading debate deemed adjourned.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): The time for debate has come to an end. This House now stands recessed until 10:30.

The House recessed from 1017 to 1030.

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

Mr. Monte McNaughton: I’d like to introduce the family of page Lila Kloppenburg to the House today. It’s David and Marnie Kloppenburg, and son and former page Sam Kloppenburg. Welcome to the House today.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: All the way from the city of Thunder Bay is Harold Wilson from the chamber of commerce of Thunder Bay. We welcome you back.

Mr. Kevin Daniel Flynn: It’s a pleasure to rise today to welcome Joseph Rumi, who is the director of fine art at Rumi Galleries in my colleague’s riding of Mississauga South. He’s joined today by his wife, Laura MacDonald Rumi, and they’re in the east members’ gallery.

Miss Monique Taylor: Today, I would like to introduce our dear friend James Moffat, who’s a retired leader with the sheet metal workers and the building trades union. Jim continues to dedicate his life on behalf of Ontario’s workers.

Mrs. Teresa Piruzza: I rise today to welcome Tina D’Agnillo, mother of the page captain today, Christian D’Agnillo, from Windsor. Welcome.

Mrs. Amrit Mangat: It is my pleasure to welcome Sarbjit Deol, Mandeep Bhatti, Gurpreet Singh, Pawandeep Randhawa and Amandeep Singh. Mr. Deol is a prominent community activist who has made significant contributions to promote sports among youth.

They are seated in the east members’ gallery. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: In the members’ whatever-side gallery—I’ve been here for 21 years; I should know east from west—are both Victoria Hunt from OECTA and Craig Brockwell from OSSTF. I’m sure they’re looking forward to 6 o’clock tonight.

Mr. Michael Mantha: Today, the kids from the high school up in Espanola are touring our wonderful working area. They’re not in the room, but they are touring. They will be here this afternoon. I hope everybody welcomes them.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): In the Speaker’s gallery is my recently adopted younger brother. Joe Peters is here to visit us. Thank you, Joe.

I guess I should make sure that that’s not an official record. He’s not really an adopted brother, but might as well be.

Mr. John Yakabuski: Are you correcting your record, Speaker?

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I’m challenged as the Chair. The short answer is, I am correcting my record in case my other brothers hear about this.

It is now time for oral questions.

ORAL QUESTIONS

GOVERNMENT SPENDING

Mr. Tim Hudak: My question for the Premier: Premier, 63 days after Ontario families told this government that they want to see action when it comes to our jobs crisis and our debt crisis, to actually reduce the size and cost of government, you have failed to bring forward one new idea to address either crisis. Let me ask you, Premier: Is there some big announcement you’re making today about cutting spending, or are you just going to pack it all up for the Christmas holidays?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: I’m pleased to receive the question. I was hoping that there would be a question of this variety today. I just want to review some of the things that we have done thus far, which I would have thought would have commended themselves to the Leader of the Opposition and his party.

First of all, Speaker, there is our healthy homes renovation tax credit. My honourable colleague wants to create jobs; this will do that. My honourable colleague, and his colleagues as well, I know, want to support seniors in their homes; this will do that. My honourable colleague is determined to help us better manage government costs; this will do that too.

So I’d ask my honourable colleague to lend his support to this very specific initiative.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Tim Hudak: The Premier may have been hoping for a question of that variety, but I was not hoping for an answer of that variety, Mr. Speaker.

Premier, 63 days: Usually in their first 100 days, governments burst out of the gate, full of vinegar and vim, to take on the challenge of the day: the debt crisis—I was careful on that—the debt crisis, the spending crisis.

But what we’ve seen is a Dalton McGuinty government limping out of the gate: not one good idea to rein in runaway government spending. I don’t know if you’re tired, if you’re out of gas, but surely a big announcement today—don’t pack it all up for the Christmas holidays when you haven’t addressed the urgent spending crisis in the province of Ontario.

Will you, this last day, at least agree to bring in a public sector wage freeze to save the taxpayers $2 billion?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: I’m always very appreciative of the characterizing of my honourable colleague’s questions. But I think really it’s important to focus on the specific initiatives. So, again, there’s our healthy homes renovation tax credit.

Now I want to talk about our southwestern Ontario development fund. Again, my honourable colleague says he’s interested in creating jobs, and this will do that. He’s interested in strengthening the economy; this will do that as well. This will be largely modelled on the eastern Ontario economic development fund, which was very supportive of a—I think it was Deslaurier Cabinets in the city of Renfrew. It’s very important to my honourable colleague opposite—

Mr. John Yakabuski: Town, town.

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: Town of Renfrew; I apologize.

Speaker, in the eastern Ontario development experience, I think we’ve created some 12,000 jobs. We’ve—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Answer.

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: —about 50 million tax dollars into close to half a billion private sector dollars. We want to do that in southwestern Ontario as well.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary?

Mr. Tim Hudak: Speaker, that precisely makes my point. There is no question in which Dalton McGuinty doesn’t say, “We’re going to throw more money at it. We’re going to throw more taxpayer dollars out there.”

Premier, at the beginning of this session, you had to admit that the deficit number you put out there during the campaign was not an accurate number. The deficit went up to $16 billion. It’s already up this year, and all we hear from you is $2.5 billion in more program spending.

Speaker, we are in a debt crisis in the province of Ontario—we’re simply out of cash—and not one new idea from this tired, out-of-gas government to rein in runaway spending. Well, we do: a public sector wage freeze—$2.5 billion in savings—to say to our public servants, “You don’t get a pay increase next year when we’re coping with significant challenges today.”

If you’re out of ideas to rein in spending, will you accept? Do the right thing and save taxpayers money.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Last day.

Premier?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: I’m just waiting with bated breath for one of the “spend” questions to come, so I look forward to receiving that.

Again, I say to my honourable colleague, we’re moving ahead. We’d like to move ahead, Speaker, with the healthy homes renovation tax credit. It creates jobs, strengthens the economy and meets the needs of our seniors in their homes.

We would like to move ahead with the southwestern Ontario development fund. I know there are a number of members in my honourable colleague’s caucus who would be very, very supportive of some of the measures and the jobs and strengthening of the local economy that it would create.

But I’m convinced, Speaker, notwithstanding the tone of my honourable colleague’s questions, that we are, in fact, on a lot of common ground, and we can find a way to move forward together.

GOVERNMENT SPENDING

Mr. Tim Hudak: Back to the Premier, Speaker: Premier, when it comes to reining in the size and cost of government, you’re bereft of ideas. In fact, all you do is continue to ask us about spend questions, and all we get is spend answers from the Premier of the province of Ontario—$2.5 billion. You’re digging the hole even deeper, on top of an expanded deficit of $16 billion. And then a scathing auditor’s report—420 pages detailing Liberal waste, mismanagement and economic incompetence. When’s it going to come to a stop?

Premier, I ask you, please tell us that this is not going to be a lame-duck session when it comes to reining in government spending. Put your big idea on the table today. If you won’t, take ours: a public sector wage freeze. Let’s get the hard work under way.

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: Speaker, I want to remind my honourable colleague again of our two specific initiatives that are on the floor here today that I honestly believe ought to commend themselves to him in his determination to help us better manage our costs.

When it comes to our healthy homes renovation tax credit, we have found the money from within. When it comes to the southwestern Ontario economic development fund, we have found the money from within. They have proposed that we take the HST off of home heating costs; that’s a $350-million cost. We have no idea where they were going to find that money.

I think we should remove ourselves from the abstract to the concrete. We have some concrete initiatives, some practical, pragmatic proposals, and I would urge my honourable colleague to support those.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Tim Hudak: Speaker, I just don’t think that the Premier gets it. Families are looking for change. They’re looking for change to rein in runaway government spending and ideas to create good private sector jobs to get Ontario growing again. We brought forward both: a mandatory public sector wage freeze to save $2 billion and modernizing our apprenticeship system to create 200,000 jobs in the skilled trades. And all we got from this tired government was a do-nothing session that didn’t save one penny for taxpayers and didn’t create jobs for apprentices across this province.

Premier, are you that much out of gas? Will there be big news today? Surely you’re not closing down the session and packing up for Christmas with a lame-duck session of the Legislature to address the debt crisis in the province of Ontario?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: Speaker, we are always interested in the views held by the leader of the official opposition and his colleagues, and we work hard to reconcile competing views within that caucus.

For example, the member for Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke has approached the Minister of Training, Colleges and Universities asking him to give him some information about building a new university campus in that riding. Speaker, that is a very—

Interjections.

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: It’s a very legitimate request. I commend the member opposite for his commitment to post-secondary education as the foundation for new jobs and growing our economy. But would I ask the two seatmates to share this information, because it’s hard, from one question to the next, to figure out where they’re coming from on these things.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary?

Mr. Tim Hudak: We actually held out hope at the beginning of the session where he talked about how the Drummond report was going to be the silver bullet, that Don Drummond’s report would be the silver bullet to rein in the size and the cost of government. But now we see in the throne speech and since nothing more than weasel words. They’re backing away, Mr. Speaker, saying that—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I’m going to ask the member to withdraw that one word.

Mr. Tim Hudak: Withdraw, Speaker.

Now we’re seeing them back away. Now Drummond is going to discuss his findings and inform a debate and include other opinions. I think you’re actually backing away from the Drummond report. You started out going in that direction, and now you’re running the other way.

Not one new idea in the session—you’re closing the doors down; a lame-duck session in the Legislature—to control the debt crisis in the province. We put our ideas out there. We will continue to fight, even if the session closes, for a mandatory wage freeze and modernizing the apprenticeship system. We’re going to fight for families who send us to Queen’s Park every day.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock. Order. Let’s try to be balanced, please.

Premier?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: Speaker, I want to acknowledge the viewpoint put forward by my honourable colleague. I cannot, of course, support his speculation about the due consideration we’re going to be giving to the Drummond report and any other advice that we’re going to get.

But I want to lend some assurance to the backbench who find themselves connected to my honourable colleague that we will continue to give due consideration to their requests. I encourage them to keep those coming to our ministers on this side of the House. I want to let them know that, notwithstanding the fact that their leader wants to shut them down, we will do what is necessary to represent the public interest for all Ontarians in held ridings and in unheld ridings across the province.

TAXATION

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Speaker, over the last three weeks, New Democrats have tried to work with the minority government and have tried to get results for people, but we’re getting a sense that the Premier either isn’t listening or just really doesn’t get it.

Later today, I’m going to be moving a motion that puts the brakes on the Premier’s corporate tax giveaways and focuses on better ways to create jobs in the province. The Premier says he wants to save some money. Will he back our plan?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: We’ve had an opportunity to talk about this several times now, and I reminded my honourable colleague that, for example, in NDP Manitoba, they cut corporate taxes on seven separate and consecutive occasions. This is not a matter of ideology; it’s a matter of doing what we need to do to strengthen our economy and ensure that we are competitive.

I remind my honourable colleague again that we cut taxes for families by some $12 billion, and for our businesses, our job creators, by $4.5 billion or $5 billion, so we’ve tried to bring a thoughtful, balanced approach to this. At the same time, we’ve put in place benefits that help our families, whether those are different kinds of tax credits that benefit our seniors, the Ontario child benefit for needy families where there are children present, and our clean energy benefit as well. So we’ve tried to be very balanced and thoughtful in meeting the needs of our job creators and families alike.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Well, Speaker, it’s incumbent upon me to remind the Premier that, in fact, Manitoba stopped their corporate tax reductions in 2008 when the recession started hitting and went to a more targeted approach, exactly what we’re suggesting.

In fact, it wasn’t so long ago that this Premier himself insisted that corporate tax giveaways would not create jobs and would not bring investment. And if media reports are correct, there are members at his cabinet table who actually still believe that.

The Premier is telling Ontario families that there’s no money left for their priorities. Why is he blowing hundreds of millions of dollars in corporate tax giveaways that even his own cabinet ministers disagree with?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: You know, Speaker, I came across something the other day which I thought was rather interesting: Moody’s Analytics has projected that Toronto’s banks will have more employment in their financial services industry than London by 2017. We’re at about the 300,000-job mark now in Ontario when it comes to our banks, and they’re projecting that over the course of the next six years we will grow to some 375,000 jobs.

Speaker, we want to make sure, as we talk about businesses and corporate tax cuts in the abstract, that what we’re really talking about is, what do we need to do to ensure that there are secure jobs for our families to support those moms and dads who can be hopeful about their future? That’s fundamentally what informs our tax policy.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Speaker, after eight long years, the people of this province don’t have jobs to go to today, never mind in 2017, and that’s the Premier’s responsibility.

In the throne speech, there was a promise made, and it was made by this government. They said that they were going to be working together and being open to different ideas in this minority Parliament. Now, if the Premier is arguing that there is a budget crisis and that it’s going to hit families hard, then he should be keeping an open mind about his billion-dollar corporate tax schemes. When a family is told to keep an open mind about the cuts that they’re going to have to face, why has the Premier closed his?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: Speaker, again, I say to the leader of the third party that I’m convinced that we have a lot of common ground and that we’re going to continue to find ways forward together. For example, on our Accepting Schools legislation, I happen to believe there’s a lot of common ground for all the members in this House.

Today my colleague will be introducing the family caregiver leave legislation. That would make Ontario the first province to provide a guaranteed eight weeks to care for an ailing relative. I think, Speaker, there is going to be a lot of common ground on that initiative as well.

So I will continue to keep an open mind on all the ideas put forward by my colleagues. I’m convinced there’s a lot of common ground, and I know that at heart, we all want to grow this economy, we want to protect our schools, we want to protect our health care and we want to build a bright future for all Ontarians. I will continue to be informed by that.

TAXATION

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My question is to the Premier again. You know what? To make this minority government work, the Premier needs to keep an open mind. Earlier this session, a majority of members in this Legislature passed a bill that would take the HST off of home heating.

My question to the Premier is: Because it’s the will of the majority of people in this Legislature, will he allow this bill to pass?

Applause.

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: This would be a spend question, and I notice that the official opposition are supportive of this. That is a $350-million initiative, for which my honourable colleagues have yet to identify the source of the savings.

We have a different plan: It’s our healthy homes renovation tax credit, which actually creates jobs. It stimulates the economy. It helps our seniors in their homes and it takes pressure off the health care budget. It seems to me that is the better way for us to move forward, and I would urge my honourable colleagues to support that measure instead of theirs.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Well, Speaker, the Premier is obviously not paying attention. We’ve talked about stopping the corporate tax cuts; in fact, we’re bringing a motion this afternoon. That was part of my first question.

The Premier is talking about working together. He has a lot of words about that. But too often what people are seeing is the same old arrogant and out-of-touch government. Everyday people are feeling squeezed because it’s tough economic times. Will the Premier and this Legislature finally decide to take the people and put them at the front of the priority list?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: Well, Speaker, that’s exactly what we’re doing. I think, Speaker—I mean, what do Ontarians expect of us today? I think they expect us to find a way to move their agenda forward; I think they expect us to understand that we find ourselves in a trying economic period; I think they recognize that that challenge was not created within the province of Ontario. There is a global economic crisis that continues. They want us to find a way to protect their schools and their health care. They want us to find a way to invest in a stronger economy and in creating more jobs.

So, Speaker, we are doing more to protect our kids in their schools, we’re doing more to create more jobs for Ontarians, and we’re doing more to protect seniors and give them greater hope about staying in their homes longer. Those are exactly the kinds of things that Ontarians want us to do.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Speaker, Ontarians and Ontario families, they’re all facing really tough times right now. I mean, saying that the economy is in bad shape doesn’t really indicate that the Premier gets what it does to everyday families. We’re one of two provinces that are seeing wages fall, and unemployment remains very high in Ontario. Meanwhile, the cost of everyday life continues to climb. We have the highest auto insurance rates in the entire country. We have the highest electricity rates in the entire country.

We really do need to start putting people first. I think this Legislature says it wants to do so. I don’t know why the Premier doesn’t want to do so. When will the Premier accept that he doesn’t have a monopoly on power and scrap his plans to leave everyday people falling behind while giving a break to those who need it the least?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: Speaker, we have a difference of opinion in terms of how we need to get there, but I’m convinced we have the same overriding objective. My honourable colleague makes a passionate plea for us to do more to help families in their homes. Well, I want to refer to two initiatives that address that very specific need and objective that I believe we share.

First of all, we are going to find a way to ensure that we reduce tuition by 30% for students who are going to our colleges and universities, which I think hits the mark insofar as we’re both concerned.

As well, we want to help seniors in their homes. We’ve heard time and time again that, if at all possible, they would like to live out as much of their lives as possible in the safety and security and comfort of their own homes. But they want to make some changes to their homes, so our healthy homes renovation tax credit will help us do just that.

AGENCY SPENDING

Mr. Ted Chudleigh: My question is to the Minister of Tourism and Culture. The Auditor General recently released a scathing report on the Trillium Foundation. In 2010-11, the foundation paid out $111 million, which was supposed to go to support organizations that are essential to Ontario families and that enhance our quality of life. The auditor found that the provision of grants was not objective and often involved a conflict of interest where the person reviewing the grant application was linked to the organization that had applied for that same grant. Minister, this borders on another Collegate type scandal. How can you have let this happen on your watch?

Hon. Michael Chan: Thank you for the question. First and foremost, I would like to thank the Auditor General for the important work he does. The Ontario Trillium Foundation is one of Canada’s leading grant-making organizations. Each year, the foundation makes decisions on about 1,500 grants, with the help of over 300 volunteers from urban and small communities. These grants help thousands of small, medium and large non-profit organizations across Ontario.

The foundation’s work helps build healthy, vibrant communities through investments that improve our environment and promote sports, culture and recreation. We have an action plan in place and we will continue to monitor the foundation’s progress.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Ted Chudleigh: Speaker, we now know that the minister has read the website, because that’s the opening of the website. But what about the scandal? What about the application for these funds that are going missing?

Minister, the auditor found that many of the most worthy projects were not provided funding. The auditor found that at every stage, the process for provision of grants was less than adequate and that oversight was weak to non-existent.

As Ontario families struggle, I found it shocking to learn that an organization with one staff member received $120,000 to develop its own strategic plan. Other organizations failed to show they produced any work, or failed to spend the grant money they were given or to use the money for its intended purposes. With many worthy organizations struggling to survive, why have you allowed this slush-fund mentality to develop?

Hon. Michael Chan: It’s not only that I read the website; I’m also aware of what the opposite member has said in the past. Speaker, the member opposite has, time and time again, said great things about the Ontario Trillium Foundation and the work that they do to support important projects within his community and riding. Just recently, the member opposite was quoted as saying this about the foundation: “Once again, the Trillium Foundation has identified and helped to fund a project in our community which will have a major impact on the lives of some people.”

Speaker, the member opposite clearly understands the great work of the foundation, but for political gain he’s willing to throw them under the bus.

Since 2007, Speaker—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. New question.

SMART METERS

Mr. Peter Tabuns: My question is to the Minister of Energy. Yesterday, the environmental commissioner said that the Ontario Power Authority was still developing a system for measuring the impact of smart meters, so, “I can’t report how much energy the time-of-use system is saving.” That’s disturbing, considering Ontario families are spending over $2 billion on smart meters.

Minister, did you seriously launch a multi-billion-dollar program without any way to judge whether or not it works?

Hon. Christopher Bentley: I’m delighted we have millions of technology units like smart meters in Ontario homes. It was on time and on budget, and for over three million people they’re working. Just what are they doing? They’re helping homeowners identify when to use energy and when not to, helping to match energy use with the cost of that energy and helping the local distribution units identify when lines are out and when they’re not out.

As we build on that system, we’ll be able to further use the technology to help residents and businesses identify when they can save money and help redirect and direct our conservation efforts for the best possible use, an enormously strong platform that we can use for even better effect in the future.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Peter Tabuns: Even years later, this minister can’t tell us whether or not these meters are reducing energy consumption. That’s what the Environmental Commissioner has told us.

At the same time you were installing smart meters, you cut the very programs that would have helped people reduce their home energy use—home retrofit programs. How are cash-strapped Ontarians supposed to save electricity if you spend all their money on measuring their use instead of helping them actually spend money to reduce their use?

Hon. Christopher Bentley: It’s actually the opposite: The time-of-use through the smart meters will actually help residents. We’ve already seen some evidence of that with Toronto Hydro. Already, it’s going to help consumers and businesses save money on their bill. We can do an even better job in the future of giving them the information to assist them.

But one of the other things that the Environmental Commissioner said is that the conservation efforts already of homeowners and businesses have saved over $1.7 billion from peaking capacity. That means we don’t have to fund that type of generation. You know, the cheapest and the cleanest power that we have is the power we save. I join with the Environmental Commissioner. We can do even more on—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. New question.

RENEWABLE ENERGY

Mrs. Teresa Piruzza: My question is for the Minister of Energy. Ontario’s clean energy economy is employing thousands of people across the province. Jobs are being created. In fact, Windsor has several clean energy manufacturing facilities.

Despite the opposition’s constant calls to destroy Ontario’s clean energy sector, companies like CS Wind are succeeding. Earlier this week, I had the privilege to visit CS Wind along with the Premier. We met the employees who are receiving world-class training—proud employees, many of whom were not working this time last year. But employment in the clean energy economy goes beyond manufacturing. Many people in other sectors are benefiting from the investments in clean energy. These are not part-time, minimum-wage jobs.

Mr. Speaker, through you to the—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Minister of Energy.

Hon. Christopher Bentley: Thanks to the member for Windsor West for standing up for good jobs. You know what? We’ve got SunEdison in Newmarket, KB Racking in Guelph and Mississauga, Ontario Solar in Windsor, Schletter in Windsor and Northland Power in Newmarket. They’re employing: construction jobs, engineering jobs, operations and maintenance jobs and other manufacturing jobs—spinoffs, such as architects, software, legal, trucking, steel facilities, manufacturing, accounting, financial.

It’s time you stand up for jobs. They’re all over the province, Speaker.

Applause.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Order.

I noticed a class up in the gallery and I’m going to ask that we continue to use our inside voices.

Supplementary?

Mrs. Teresa Piruzza: Thank you, Minister. I’m pleased with the many jobs that are being created in our community and throughout this province in this sector.

Minister, this week, the opposition has been very critical of the temporary jobs created in our emerging economy. Many of these temporary jobs are construction jobs that are building the manufacturing plants—real jobs, important jobs. In fact, CS Wind has created 400 indirect jobs. This includes good construction jobs for my constituents. We’re proud of these workers and their contribution to Ontario’s clean energy economy.

Mr. Speaker, would the minister set the record straight and share the number of direct and indirect jobs that will be created in Ontario’s clean energy economy?

Hon. Christopher Bentley: You know, Speaker, she’s absolutely right. We’re already at 20,000 jobs, direct and indirect, and we’re on our way to 50,000, and you can see them all around the province.

But let’s be very clear: When they talk about indirect jobs, they are talking about construction jobs. And who is involved in construction, Speaker? The trades, including journeypersons and apprentices. I thought they’d be interested in that. I thought they’d be interested in the carpenters, the labourers, the millwrights, the electricians, the pipefitters, the steamfitters and the ironworkers.

You know, a construction job feeds a family. A construction job supports a community. A construction job contributes to the economy of the province of Ontario. I love construction jobs, Speaker. They are great for the economy, great for families and they are a very strong part of the future—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. New question?

HOSPITALS

Mrs. Jane McKenna: Speaker, my question is for the Premier. Premier, your government defeated a motion from former Burlington MPP Joyce Savoline in 2007. She asked for the expansion of Joseph Brant hospital to be made a capital priority and have funding released. Ten of those who voted the motion down sit across the aisle today. One, the honourable member from Ancaster–Dundas–Flamborough–Westdale, said, “You don’t just write a cheque for $40 million without the plan being in place first. That, in fact, would be irresponsible.”

Four years later, the province’s share of cost is rumoured to be $200 million. In the name of being responsible, will the Premier table a detailed plan showing costs, timeline for completion and how his government plans to pay for all the hospital projects he promised?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: To the Minister of Infrastructure.

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: I thank the member for the question. The members opposite would know that the province has built 18 new hospitals; it’s announced a number of additional hospitals over the last number of months. This is after that government closed 28 hospitals across the province.

This government created Infrastructure Ontario, which has a very unique way of procuring, paying and financing for hospitals. When they’re in a competitive process they don’t tell the whole world what their expected budget is. They have a process that generated, in all of their processes, $750 million in savings across this province in infrastructure projects.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mrs. Jane McKenna: We keep hearing about how all the relevant project details can be found online. But any details you find are fuzzy at best. The Premier’s Building Together documents contain no mention of investment in Joe Brant—in fact, no hard timelines or costing for any hospital construction or expansion plans at all.

The Auditor General’s report, on the other hand, has plenty of juicy detail: gross mismanagement, glaring incompetence and wasteful spending. Will it take another brutal AG’s report for the Premier to recognize a multi-billion-dollar train wreck concerning vital health care infrastructure?

Premier, when are you going to put your big-boy pants on and do what you said you were going to do?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The comment does not bring the best out in us. I would ask the member to withdraw that last part.

Mrs. Jane McKenna: Withdraw.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I think we can do without the editorials. I’m asking all members to kind of bring it down—all of it. Thank you.

Member?

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like the member to do her big-girl job as an MPP—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock. Someone has asked me to set the tone, and I’ve been trying to do that. I need some help from all of the members. This is not the time for us to exit the way we are. I was asked to bring decorum. It’s not my responsibility; it’s yours, and the shots back and forth are not helpful.

Member, you will withdraw.

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: I withdraw.

I would ask the member to speak to the managers and the people who are concerned with this issue at Joseph Brant hospital. They are extremely happy with the process. They have expressed that to this government, as most, if not every, single hospital CEO, manager, board of trustees and, most importantly, the public who are going to benefit from these hospitals. We are doing an exceptional job meeting the challenges of this province in terms of hospital care, especially in ridings such as yours—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. New question.

PUBLIC TRANSIT

Mr. Jonah Schein: This question is to the Minister of Municipal Affairs. As the minister knows, she’s responsible for working with municipalities to address our local challenges. As the minister also well knows, the province has a crucial responsibility in funding municipal transit. Can she tell us when she last met with the city of Toronto’s Mayor Rob Ford to discuss ways to work together to avoid TTC fare hikes and service cuts?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I actually spent a fair bit of time working with Mayor Ford when I was Minister of Transportation. We had many conversations about the needs of the city. In fact, there’s $8.2 billion being invested by this government in building the Eglinton crosstown line. We’re completing the air-rail link from Pearson to Union Station and we are expanding the Spadina subway into York region. So we’ve made more investment in transit in the city of Toronto than any government for a generation.

The reality is that the city of Toronto is going through a budget process of its own making at the moment. The city of Toronto created the situation in which it finds itself, and the city of Toronto is going to have to talk among itself and figure out how it’s going to resolve its issues.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Jonah Schein: To the member opposite: As a Toronto resident, the minister must know that TTC buses and streetcars are already overcrowded. Waits are far too long and fares are too high.

The NDP has proposed a very simple solution: We’d like to reinstate the provincial funding of half the operating costs for transit in return for a fare freeze. The mayor, the TTC chair and city council have all called on the province to return to the 50-50 operating cost split. Why won’t the minister adopt our solution or at least do something to prevent TTC hikes and service cuts?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: You know, we have worked with the city of Toronto, and I don’t want to give the member opposite the notion that we’re not going to continue to work with the city of Toronto; of course we are. We will continue to work with the city of Toronto on any range of issues. We’re going to continue to upload social service costs, as we’re doing for municipalities across the province. It’s another $500 million that is going to be uploaded to the provincial purse.

Since 2003, ongoing assistance to the city of Toronto has increased by 600%. We have made investment after investment in the city of Toronto. More than half of the money in terms of the gas tax goes to the city of Toronto for transit operating and capital. So we are more than interested in making sure that the city of Toronto is self-sufficient and able to provide services to its citizens. But at the same time, Mr. Speaker, the city of Toronto has to look at the revenue and the expense side of its balance sheet and make its own decisions.

ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT

Mr. Jeff Leal: Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Economic Development and Innovation. Last week, the minister introduced legislation that would make the eastern Ontario development fund permanent. The legislation would also create the southwestern Ontario development fund. There is a great deal of support in my community for this program and lots of optimism, knowing that the eastern Ontario development fund would be permanent.

Well, the opposition can’t seem to figure out what side of the issue they’re on. I’m concerned about comments made by opposition members who are claiming that the two regional funds will be combined into one fund instead of separate and distinct funds.

Mr. Speaker, can the minister confirm that the eastern Ontario development fund and the southwestern development fund will remain separate from each other? Minister, eastern Ontario wants to know the straight facts.

Hon. Brad Duguid: Yes, eastern Ontario needs to know the straight facts, and that’s exactly what we’re going to give them today. The answer is yes; these funds will be two separate funds—of course they will be two separate funds—and they’ll be addressing unique needs in both eastern Ontario and southwestern Ontario.

The eastern Ontario development fund has been hugely successful. It has created or retained over 11,700 jobs and leveraged almost $485 million of investment.

The disunity and inconsistency of the opposition, Mr. Speaker, has been less than helpful. It’s important that we all work together to put jobs ahead of politics. We’re consulting with our partners in southwestern Ontario and we’re consulting with the people of eastern Ontario to ensure that we put these funds together and create as many jobs as we can and have as big an impact as we can.

The fact, Mr. Speaker, is we live in a minority Parliament—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Supplementary?

Hon. Brad Duguid: —and we need the members opposite to support—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I would ask that all members make sure that when I either say “Thank you” or stand up, we let the next question happen.

Supplementary?

Mr. Jeff Leal: Thank you, Minister. With that detailed response, I won’t need a late show.

As I said, I think this is an important program, and I look forward to the discussions on how we can improve the eastern Ontario development fund. The minister touched upon this briefly, but I’d like him to elaborate further on whether the eastern Ontario development fund has met the objectives that it was intended to meet.

I’d also like clarification from him on when he expects to have the eastern Ontario development fund and the southwestern Ontario development fund up and running and helping to create jobs in these important regions. This is an important initiative, and people are eager to know when they can expect the programs to be up and running.

Hon. Brad Duguid: I know the member is very eager to see this program up and running, as is every member on this side of the House, and I suspect members on the other side of the House from southwestern Ontario and eastern Ontario are also very eager to see this program running. That’s why I’m looking to them to show leadership, to fight for jobs within their caucus, to fight for jobs in this place, to ensure we move this legislation forward as quickly as possible so that we can get these jobs in place.

Our goal, Mr. Speaker, is to have these programs up and running by the spring, but we’re going to need the members from eastern Ontario on the opposite side of this House, we’re going to need the members from southwestern Ontario to work with us, to put jobs ahead of politics. That’s what we’re doing on this side of the House. We need the members on the other side of the House to stand up for jobs in Ontario.

HIGHWAY CONSTRUCTION

Mr. Jerry J. Ouellette: My question is for the Minister of Transportation concerning the 407 extension. Minister, as you know, construction is in phase 1 of the Highway 407 extension from Brock Road in Pickering to only Harmony Road in Oshawa.

Work appears to be moving along, but a recent consultant’s report now says that it will cost Oshawa $31 million to make the necessary local road upgrades to accommodate the phase terminus at Harmony Road. This represents a substantial tax increase to the residents of Oshawa.

Minister, what will your government do to ensure that the costs of necessary improvements are not downloaded to the taxpayers of Oshawa?

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the opportunity to talk about the extension of the 407 east. This is an unbelievable project; it’s the major transportation project that we have in the province at the present time. There was a tremendous amount of consultation that took place with all the elected officials at every level of government when this was moving forward.

Certainly, the issue that he is raising, I will look into. I’m not familiar with the report that he has indicated; I would have appreciated it had he provided a copy to me before he asked the question. But, in any case, the level of investment and the future economic development and job creation from the 407 east is just off the scale. I wish the member would stand up and appreciate that, and then ask his question.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Jerry J. Ouellette: Minister, a quote from the report: “Based on engineering work to date, the city cannot afford to fund the road improvements required to address the 407 east extension impacts without significant hardship and the ‘cannibalizing’ of other ... city programs.”

The only project that your ministry has agreed to fund is a temporary traffic light at the intersection of Harmony and Columbus Roads, valued at $150,000. This is far from sufficient enough improvements to ensure that the supporting roads are safe for motorists, cyclists and pedestrians.

Minister, when will your government commit to review the report and sit down with the city and the region to commit to find a method to minimize the tax impact on the people of Oshawa?

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: I want to remind the member, once again, that the impact on that whole area from the 407 east is going to be job creation—hundreds and thousands of job creations while the construction is going on. It’s going to generate economic development in that area.

I want to repeat again: I wish the member would appreciate the level of investment—$5 billion, plus or minus, depending on when the price comes in. That’s unbelievable; it’s off the scale. We’re proud of that project, and we’re not going to back down from any of that political, negative talk.

WINTER HIGHWAY MAINTENANCE

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My question is for the Premier. The performance-based contracts that the Ministry of Transportation created are a major departure from the way that northern Ontario highways used to be maintained. The lowered standards are not only leading to closures but they’re putting motorists at risk. Why is this government compromising the safety of northerners by deliberately lowering the standards in its contracts?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: Speaker, to the Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation.

Mr. John Yakabuski: Whoa, it’s Bob’s day.

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: Mr. Speaker, I have to say, in the last session as Minister of Infrastructure, I think I received two questions; this week, I think I’ve received 22 questions.

I appreciate the opportunity to answer. I also take the opportunity to say to the members here and anybody who’s listening to this that we have one of the best transportation departments in North America, in terms of safety, in terms of maintenance, and it’s improving week after week after week.

The investment is there, the commitment is there, and if you have any particular details you feel you want to share with me, then I’m happy to look at them, happy to meet with you, happy to arrange meetings with people in my department with you or with your critic, in order to move forward on this issue.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Minister, northerners are very, very dependent on their roads and highways for their everyday lives, whether it’s taking their kids to school or taking their elderly parents to the hospital or to the doctor.

You know what? I’ll give him a specific, Speaker: just the other day, three accidents in a span of a couple of days just outside Wawa. In two of these accidents, the roads were so icy that the paramedics, fire crews and OPP had problems walking to assist the people in the accidents, because they were worried about injuring themselves on the roads that were in such horrible shape.

Now, I’m going to ask this question one more time: Will you scrap your performance-based system and ensure that northerners can safely travel the highways and roads that are so essential to their everyday lives?

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: I appreciate the leader of the third party’s interest in road safety and road maintenance. We certainly take it very, very seriously. That’s why our winter maintenance standards are among the highest in North America. The member knows that the decision to close a provincial highway is the responsibility of the OPP.

With respect to the member to your right, he raised issues of highway closings. That’s a decision of the OPP. The OPP work very, very closely with our officials. We’re a team, and we do everything possible to ensure the safety of our roads, particularly in the north, where it’s more severe than in the rest of the province. We will look into the issue that the member raises.

RENEWABLE ENERGY

Mr. Grant Crack: My question is to the Minister of Energy. Speaker, wind and solar power are two very important parts of clean energy in Ontario. However, there is another form of clean, renewable energy that seldom gets attention in the province, and that’s biomass. This form of clean energy is part of the feed-in tariff program and is contributing to the province’s efforts to eliminate dirty, coal-fired generation. Biomass projects across the province are helping farmers participate in the clean energy economy and earn additional income.

Through you, Mr. Speaker, to the minister: Can you please give this House an update on biomass projects in the province?

Hon. Christopher Bentley: I really appreciate the question on this issue from the member for Glengarry–Prescott–Russell. Biomass is part of the feed-in tariff, so we encourage applications for this form of energy that’s really used a lot in Europe. We’re combining getting out of coal, which we want to do, with the use of biomass.

There’s this community in northwestern Ontario that the member from Thunder Bay–Atikokan is very, very fond of talking about all the time, and we are actually in the process of converting the coal-fired station to a biomass-fired station. It will give us the opportunity to continue to generate energy, generate power for the strength of the economy of the northwest, and sustain and assist the forestry industry, because we can use the biomass in a very good and productive way. It’s an exciting project. Thanks for the question.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Grant Crack: I’m happy to hear that biomass is contributing to Ontario’s energy economy, a clean energy economy that has been threatened by the opposition.

Speaker, that’s why I was surprised and amused to read in the Daily Observer the other day that the member from Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke and the member from Prince Edward–Hastings are supporting the call from local forestry and logging companies to increase the amount of biomass in the province. I’m happy to see that they’re now supporting our clean energy economy, despite their leader’s constant calls to end it.

Mr. Speaker, would the minister tell this House what is being done to help forestry and logging companies participate in Ontario’s clean energy economy?

Hon. Christopher Bentley: To the Minister of Natural Resources.

Hon. Michael Gravelle: The member is quite right: The opposition does not support clean energy projects, particularly their leader, which is why it’s so encouraging that the members from Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke and Prince Edward–Hastings are joining their growing number of colleagues who are supporting green energy, like the member for Newmarket–Aurora, who, I think, was on the board of a company with FIT projects.

In terms of biomass in particular, Ontario has always practised sustainable forest management, and harvesting for heating, electricity generation or liquid biofuels is no exception at all.

This new sector will help revitalize the forestry sector, and it will create new, highly skilled jobs in the province. Let me assure you as well, Speaker, that the use of biofibre will not compromise Ontario’s commitment to sustainable forest management.

This is an exciting development we saw with our wood supply competition—good news ahead; good jobs for everyone in the province of Ontario.

GOVERNMENT REGULATIONS

Mr. Randy Hillier: My question is to the Premier. Premier, the Electrical Safety Authority, another of your unelected, unaccountable and faceless government agencies, has a new regulation that you must now have a master’s licence to operate an electrical business.

Three electrical contractors in my hometown of Perth—Jim Murphy, Les Cross and Gary Munro—have over 100 years of combined experience in the trade. But come January 1, 2012, your government has told them that they must surrender their business licence or face a $50,000 fine each, and up to a year in prison. The reality is that these new regulations are forcing many contractors throughout the province out of business, and laying off their employees as well.

Premier, why won’t you do the right thing and grandfather these new regulations so that you don’t put hard-working men like Jim, Les and Gary out of work?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: To the Minister of Consumer Services.

Hon. Margarett R. Best: Mr. Speaker, I would like to advise the member opposite that the transition period for electrical contractors ends on December 31, 2011.

In 2006, a regulation to license electrical contractors and master electricians was brought into effect to enhance worker safety and to increase public protection while ensuring that electrical work follows the Ontario electrical safety code, to improve consumer protection and to make the industry equitable and safe by allowing only registered electrical contractors to perform electrical work. Electrical contractors who could not immediately meet the requirements were issued provisional licences. They had time.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. Randy Hillier: Premier, it’s not just complying with the new regulations and getting their master’s licence, because here’s the irony: There’s also Bill Fisher Electric. He has his master’s licence and has a perfect safety record with the ESA. Years ago, when Bill finished his apprenticeship and went to Kingston to write his test, he was given the wrong licence by the ministry staff. He was given a 309C, which is a rare domestic licence, instead of the 309A for construction maintenance, which he apprenticed as. Despite the fact that he passed the test and has six licences, including his master’s licence, now the MTCU is putting him out of work as well, unless he fixes that mistake.

Premier, you have created such a maze of unworkable regulations that your cabinet doesn’t even know which way to turn. Why are you trying to put every electrical contractor out of business in this—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Minister?

Hon. Margarett R. Best: I cannot speak to that specific case, but I certainly can undertake to speak with the member about that specific case. But I will continue with what I was saying prior.

They have had five years. This actually gave the electrical contractors the time for them to meet the new standards. This included having a staff person who holds a master electrical licence.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. New question.

DOCTOR SHORTAGE

Ms. Sarah Campbell: My question is to the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care. Ear Falls is a small northern community of 1,100 residents, almost all of whom are dependent on the town’s only doctor, who will be leaving on December 31. If a new doctor is not in place soon, residents will be forced to drive either 140 or 280 kilometres to access urgent and primary medical care.

Ear Falls is doing everything they can to find a doctor or secure a locum, and other doctors nearby are trying to help, but the ministry will not return the town’s calls or emails.

Minister, what is this government doing to ensure th