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December 10, 2009

39th Parliament, 1st Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2009-Dec-10 (PDF)

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L'ONTARIO

Thursday 10 December 2009 Jeudi 10 décembre 2009

ORDERS OF THE DAY

ENERGY CONSUMER

PROTECTION ACT, 2009 /

LOI DE 2009 SUR LA PROTECTION

DES CONSOMMATEURS D'ÉNERGIE

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

LEGISLATIVE PAGES

MEMBERS' ATTENDANCE

VISITORS

ORAL QUESTIONS

GOVERNMENT'S RECORD

GOVERNMENT'S RECORD

GOVERNMENT'S RECORD

GOVERNMENT'S RECORD

HIGHWAY TOLLS

SEWAGE SLUDGE

CONSUMER PROTECTION

SKILLS TRAINING

INFRASTRUCTURE

PROGRAM FUNDING

AFFORDABLE HOUSING

TOURISM

HEALTH CARE FUNDING

WILDLIFE PROTECTION

DRIVER EXAMINATION CENTRES

HERITAGE CONSERVATION

OLYMPIC TORCH RELAY

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

LEGAL AID

GOVERNMENT'S RECORD

TAXATION

ABORIGINAL LAND DISPUTE

INTERNATIONAL TRADE

PRIVATE MEMBERS' PUBLIC BUSINESS

TAXATION

HANUKKAH

MEMBER FOR TORONTO CENTRE

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

LIQUOR LICENCE AMENDMENT ACT (UNLAWFUL WEAPONS IN BARS), 2009 /

LOI DE 2009 MODIFIANT LA LOI

SUR LES PERMIS D'ALCOOL

(ARMES ILLÉGALES DANS LES BARS)

EMPLOYMENT STANDARDS AMENDMENT ACT (LAY-OFFS), 2009 /

LOI DE 2009 MODIFIANT LA LOI

SUR LES NORMES D'EMPLOI

(MISES À PIED)

HIGHWAY TRAFFIC AMENDMENT ACT (IGNITION INTERLOCK DEVICES

IN SCHOOL VEHICLES), 2009 /

LOI DE 2009 MODIFIANT

LE CODE DE LA ROUTE

(DISPOSITIFS DE VERROUILLAGE

DU SYSTÈME DE DÉMARRAGE

DANS LES VÉHICULES SCOLAIRES)

INTERNATIONAL HUMAN RIGHTS DAY

PETITIONS

TAXATION

RECONSTRUCTIVE SURGERY

SOCIAL SERVICES FUNDING

RECONSTRUCTIVE SURGERY

CHILD PROTECTION

FIREARMS CONTROL

TAXATION

TAXATION

RECONSTRUCTIVE SURGERY

ELMVALE DISTRICT HIGH SCHOOL

VISITORS

PRIVATE MEMBERS'

PUBLIC BUSINESS

FREEDOM OF INFORMATION

AND PROTECTION OF PRIVACY AMENDMENT ACT

(INSTITUTIONS), 2009 /

LOI DE 2009 MODIFIANT LA LOI

SUR L'ACCÈS À L'INFORMATION

ET LA PROTECTION DE LA VIE PRIVÉE (INSTITUTIONS)

HUMAN RIGHTS

ELECTRICITY AMENDMENT ACT (PROTECTION AGAINST

SECURITY DEPOSITS), 2009 /

LOI DE 2009 MODIFIANT

LA

LOI SUR L'ÉLECTRICITÉ (PROTECTION CONTRE

LES DÉPÔTS DE GARANTIE)

FREEDOM OF INFORMATION

AND PROTECTION OF PRIVACY AMENDMENT ACT

(INSTITUTIONS), 2009 /

LOI DE 2009 MODIFIANT LA LOI

SUR L'ACCÈS À L'INFORMATION

ET LA PROTECTION DE LA VIE PRIVÉE (INSTITUTIONS)

HUMAN RIGHTS

ELECTRICITY AMENDMENT ACT (PROTECTION AGAINST

SECURITY DEPOSITS), 2009 /

LOI DE 2009 MODIFIANT

LA

LOI SUR L'ÉLECTRICITÉ (PROTECTION CONTRE

LES DÉPÔTS DE GARANTIE)

FREEDOM OF INFORMATION

AND PROTECTION OF PRIVACY AMENDMENT ACT

(INSTITUTIONS), 2009 /

LOI DE 2009 MODIFIANT LA LOI

SUR L'ACCÈS À L'INFORMATION

ET LA PROTECTION DE LA VIE PRIVÉE (INSTITUTIONS)

The House met at 0900.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Season's greetings from Speaker Claus and company. Thank you to my elves.

Please remain standing for the Lord's Prayer, followed by the aboriginal prayer.

Prayers.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

ENERGY CONSUMER

PROTECTION ACT, 2009 /

LOI DE 2009 SUR LA PROTECTION

DES CONSOMMATEURS D'ÉNERGIE

Mr. Phillips moved second reading of the following bill:

Bill 235,

An Act to enact the Energy Consumer Protection Act, 2009 and to amend other Acts / Projet de loi 235, Loi édictant la Loi de 2009 sur la protection des consommateurs d'énergie et modifiant d'autres lois.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Debate?

Hon. Gerry Phillips: I should inform the House that I plan to share my time with the member from Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, my good friend the Minister of Consumer Services.

I look forward to the debate here on the bill and I look forward to it no doubt going to committee. I think it's fair to say that this is a bill that has the interest of every member in the Legislature.

For the public's knowledge, it deals really with three areas. The one that I found has the most public interest is dealing with what are called energy retailers. These are companies that sell contracts for natural gas or contracts for electricity. The second part of the bill deals with what we call sub-metering in multiresidential buildings, which means allowing tenants in a multiresidential rental building to have electricity metered for their own apartment and paid separately. We deal with that issue. And thirdly, the issue around setting some standards on when utilities can require security deposits and what we call disconnect policies, when they can turn off the electricity or the gas.

As I say, I think every member in the Legislature—I think I probably heard from every member of our caucus on this bill, and I think that's probably true for the opposition as well. This is an area that we get a lot of comments from our constituents on, and this bill is designed to address the issues that each of the members are dealing with.

I want to thank my colleague from Timiskaming—Cochrane, Dave Ramsay. The member started working on this a couple of years ago, really; he had a private member's bill that highlighted the issue. So he has been among the leaders here, and I want to thank him. He deserves a lot of credit for where we stand now, although I would say he's not alone in terms of this being an important issue for us in the Legislature to deal with.

It's very important that the public have clear rules of conduct when they're dealing with these retailers, that they have a right to expect honest, straightforward business practices. They have a right to expect that when abuses occur they will be dealt with severely. There is an obligation for us to create an environment where business can operate, but equally where consumers are treated fairly. I believe this legislation strikes that balance.

I look forward to the debate here. I look forward to suggestions on improvements, because at the end of the day, as they say, I'm determined that the consumer will have the appropriate level of confidence, that they understand what they are dealing with and they are making an informed decision in the proper environment. The legislation firstly deals with making sure the consumer has every opportunity to understand the offer they are being presented with; I'll talk in some more detail about that later. But it's fair to say that understanding the electricity market is not easy.

We have to make it easy for people to understand what they're buying. We have to make sure that the retailers understand they've got a clear obligation to present their offers clearly and fairly.

Not everybody may be aware, but these fixed energy contracts have been around for some time. Maybe the best analogy I can give is that these fixed energy contracts are sort of like buying a fixed-rate mortgage. You know how most of us have a debate about whether we want a variable or a fixed-rate mortgage. These contracts essentially allow consumers to buy at a fixed rate. Typically, our utilities have a variable rate; the electricity price changes over time.

The contracts in gas have been around since 1997, so a little more than 10 years. In 2002, the same business model was introduced here in Ontario for electricity, where consumers can buy at a fixed rate over a fixed period of time. So it has been around for some time, and a considerable number of people have signed up for them. However—we're all aware of this, I believe—the Ontario Energy Board, which has the responsibility for regulating these retailers, gets between 100 and 150 consumer complaints every week about energy retailers.

Over the past three years—and my colleague the Minister of Consumer Services would tell us—typically this issue ends up in the top 10 of the consumer grievances that he deals with. So there's a clear need to act, and we are acting with this legislation. The act contains measures to ensure that legitimate businesses are permitted and illegitimate behaviours are subject to severe crackdown. So, that's the energy retailing side, and I'll get into a little more detail in a moment.

The second part of it is that it strengthens the protection for residents of multi-unit rental residential buildings where suite metering is in place or being introduced. What this means is that we're anxious in this province, working very hard on energy conservation, trying to find ways for people to use less electricity, less natural gas, less gasoline in their cars; wherever we can cut down on energy use, we're anxious to do that.

Experience has shown that in a rental apartment, the use of electricity drops by 20% to 25% if you are paying for your own electricity. It kind of makes sense that if you turn up the heat a little too much or you are overusing your air conditioner, you would recognize that and you'd see that if you cut that down, you would save money. We are determined to move to helping people in this province make those informed decisions.

We are moving to something we call smart metering across the province, which allows people to have what's called time-of-use pricing, where the price of electricity is less in off-peak hours, so we can get people to use it then and we require fewer electricity generating plants.

It's a good idea for people to have the ability to control their own electricity use. However, in existing buildings it's equally important that tenants have some protection against the sort of arbitrary use of this. I think we are striking that balance—and I'll get into more detail later—when a building is going to be suite metered: Individual tenants will have the choice either to go on individual billing or to stay where they are. I think that protects the rights of existing tenants, ensures transparency and will help us along the way to this culture of conservation we often talk about.

The third area of this piece of legislation clarifies circumstances for consumer security deposits and disconnections. We want to make sure there's a standard in this across the province. Businesses have the freedom to require security deposits when warranted. We want to make sure that when the service is left unpaid for an extended period of time, disconnection is a reasonable response, but there should be objective and standard practices guiding such measures, particularly ensuring fair treatment of consumers who are vulnerable, such as those for whom energy disconnections are not an option: individuals with particular health or income challenges.

I'll go now to talking in some detail about the part of the legislation that deals with energy retailers. The first part ends what I call unfair consumer practices. I get a lot of comments, not just from members of the Legislature but from other people, about the practices of door-to-door salespeople. There is a concern that they don't, in all cases, identify who they are, or if they say who they are, they are misleading. In fact, we've had instances where people look like they're from the government—they have a trillium logo that they're carrying around—and the consumer doesn't know who they're dealing with.

They will essentially leave the impression that they have the right to look at your bill and whatnot.

We have to find a way that door-to-door salespeople are properly regulated; that when they appear at the door they are clearly identified—this legislation calls for that—and that you know you are not dealing with your local utility and you are not dealing with the government of Ontario but you are dealing with a particular company. They will be required to make an oral disclosure of who they are.

Importantly, we will ensure that the companies are held accountable for their salespeople. The salespeople must be licensed. That is not the case right now; the retailers are licensed but not the salespeople. The companies are going to be held accountable for behaviour at the door. Too often we've heard examples where the company will say, "Well, that salesperson certainly wasn't following company orders. We'll get rid of them." Often these people are contract employees; essentially, they are commissioned salespeople.

I believe the legislation gives us the tools to ensure that door-to-door salespeople practise fair consumer practices. This will be the subject of some debate. There is the concern: Can we hold them accountable? I believe we can, particularly with the part of the legislation that holds the companies and the directors responsible for the actions of their salespeople at the door. That's a very important part of this legislation: All of us will have to be satisfied that this legislation will be able to hold those door-to-door salespeople accountable. I would also add that the legislation applies to online sales and phone sales. But we seem to have the highest number of complaints door to door.

The second part of the legislation—and this is crucial for me—is to make sure that people have the information to make an informed decision when they are being asked to sign a contract. Essentially, as I said in my earlier remarks, what the consumer is buying is a fixed price over a period of time. That essentially is what it is. The company will say, "We will sell you electricity for this rate over this period of time," three or four years. But there has to be a way, and there will be a way, and the legislation contemplates having a way, that people have a clear understanding of what that is.

We have another sub-issue that we are dealing with and must deal with in this, and that's called the provincial benefit or the global adjustment. That's jargon for—the electricity price has two elements in it. It's very confusing to the consumer. We have to fix that in here, and we have to fix it in the non-retail area as well. It's very difficult for the consumer to understand. But I'm determined that people will understand what they're buying.

I will say that I looked at what British Columbia does in the natural gas area, and there it's crystal clear. They simply say, "Here's the price you're paying for a measurement of natural gas," and then, "These companies are offering a one-year, a three-year, or a five-year fixed rate on natural gas at this." It gives the consumer essentially the same information you have when you're making a decision on a mortgage, where you can understand: Is it variable or fixed, over what period of time, and what's the interest rate?

We have to find a way, and we will, and the legislation gives us the opportunity to do that, so that when the consumer is being asked to sign the contract, they will understand, firstly, who they're dealing with, that it's not the utility; it's a company. They'll understand, if they don't sign it, the consequences. The consequences are, you stay with what you're doing. So I would stay with my local utility.

Then, the third part of it is to understand what they're buying and how it compares to what they've been paying. Part of it, by the way, is that the contracts will be text-based. So even if you're dealing on the phone, before the contract is valid you have to sign a hard copy of it.

A piece of legislation where there's still flexibility—well, there's flexibility everywhere, because we're going to amend it, but where we will be looking for advice in the committee is, who is authorized to sign the contract? There are essentially only going to be two choices. Is it the account holder, or the account holder and spouse? There's a debate around that. But we are going to dramatically narrow who can sign the contract, so that we don't find inappropriate people signing the contract.

The third part of dealing with the concerns of the consumer is the feeling that you've been pressured into signing. You're often dealing with an expert salesperson at the door, and somehow or other you sign the contract. The legislation contemplates three opportunities for sober second thought. One is a 10-day cooling-off period, where you can just unilaterally not do it; cancel it.

Then, between 10 days and 60 days after you've signed the contract, we will have what is called third party verification. What this means is that the Ontario Energy Board, which has a responsibility for regulating this, will prepare a list of companies capable of doing this third party verification. One of the criteria would also be being able to do it in several languages, as appropriate.

The retailer has to select, off that list, the company to do the verification, and they will do it from a prescribed script so that the consumer should feel confident that the companies that are doing this, selected by the Ontario Energy Board and monitored by the Ontario Energy Board, are not working for the retailer but are working on behalf of the public.

The third cooling-off period is that 30 days after you get your first bill, you can cancel it. This is the third area that we get a lot of comment on—"I didn't know what I was signing" etc.—and this will deal with that.

The next area is unfair cancellation policies. Right now, natural gas contracts have an automatic renewal provision, which we are going to remove, but we're going to also deal with some of the practices that go on. I think many of us have found examples where a cheque is sent to a consumer, and they cash it, not being aware that a condition of cashing it is that you are renewing your contract. Well, we're going to deal with that, and that will not be acceptable.

We're going to prevent excessive fees and remove the fees altogether if you move into a rental building where you couldn't possibly use the contract. Strangely enough, actually, there are a lot of examples where people have signed two contracts. It's hard to believe, and we'll deal with that where the first contract is the one and the second wouldn't be.

The next problem I want to talk about is accountability—and I touched on this a little bit earlier—holding the companies accountable for the salespeople going to the door. We're going to require additional licensing conditions, including background checks. If you want to volunteer to be an assistant hockey coach, you need a background check. It seems to us that for somebody selling fairly expensive contracts door to door, the same sort of standards should apply. So we're determined to find the mechanisms to make sure that people who are selling door to door are accountable and monitored and the company is held responsible.

The last point I'd make on the retailer is to ensure that, as I said earlier, all costs are disclosed. We still have what's called a provincial benefit or a global adjustment that we must deal with so that consumers understand that when they are buying this product, everything is in on it.

My belief is that this legislation will deal with the major issues that we get on a daily basis. As I say, I look forward to the debate here and to suggestions from the Legislature at second reading and then input at the committee. I repeat: It's an issue of intense interest to virtually every member of the Legislature.

The second one I want to talk about is what's called suite metering. I mentioned earlier that the purpose of it is to find ways that people can conserve energy. This is pretty important to all of us. We have, in this province, quite substantial peaks in daily usage. You get, particularly in warm weather—in the province, our biggest-use days are the hot summer days. At one time, it was the cold winter days; now it's the hot summer days. You get these peaks through the day.

If we can find a way to lower those peaks by 10% or 15%—because, obviously, you have to generate electricity for the peak—you need 10% or 15% less generation in the province, because many of these things run 24 hours a day, but you've got to have what's called peaking power.

So it's in all of our interests to find ways to conserve energy. That's what this suite metering is about: finding ways that people can control their own energy use and benefit from it. So the solution is that in all new residential buildings it will be mandatory to have individual suite metering. That makes sense to everyone, I think.

But in existing buildings, whether you move on to suite metering or not will be voluntary, and that's designed to give us an opportunity to phase this in. The problem right now is that there aren't good rules for individual billing in rental buildings. The proposed solutions in the legislation are to:

—require consent from sitting tenants;

—require the landlords to adjust the amount of rent paid to offset the electricity cost that would have been billed to the tenant; and

—give prospective new tenants the necessary information when they move in, because when they move in, they will be on their own suite meter.

Another problem is that the companies that actually install the metering—the individual apartment metering—are not subject to the same rules as the local distributing company. Here in Toronto our local distributing company is Toronto Hydro. They have firm rules from the Ontario Energy Board about individual or suite metering. But private companies can also do it without the same rules, and we are going to have the same rules for them as for the local distributing company. Why is that important? It's important that fees be regulated.

It's important that there's confidence in the suite metering company, and that renters who are anxious about getting on individual metering are not inappropriately taken advantage of.

Another challenge is to make sure tenants don't move onto individual metering in highly inefficient buildings. We're going to require certain standards around the appliances in the individual-meter situations.

The last thing I'd touch on is the consumer security deposit and disconnects. There's quite a variety of rules around this across the province. The proposed solution here is that the OEB would regulate disconnection security deposits for both electricity and gas companies and look at alternatives to deposits, requiring specific standards for disconnects for vulnerable consumers, and requiring utilities to accept payment of security deposits over time. So it will give us an opportunity to have some standards around disconnects.

Back to what I find tends to be the main element of this piece of legislation, and that is, finding ways to regulate electricity and gas retailers. As I've said several times now—I've been the minister for four weeks and three days, but it has been a subject that many of my caucus and many of the opposition have talked to me about. It's one that we have to solve.

It is not a small purchase for people to make. It is not currently easy for people to understand, so I'm determined that this legislation—amended, if there are good ideas—will solve these problems. Problem number one is inappropriate pressure at the door, and maybe on the phone as well. When somebody knocks on your door, you will know who you're dealing with. They will be required to disclose who you're dealing with; you will be able to identify who you're dealing with. And importantly, we will find a way to hold the companies accountable for that. It no longer will be acceptable to say, "Well, they certainly weren't operating under our guidelines."

The second part of it—and this is crucial—is that when people are being offered this contract, they clearly understand what they're buying. Right now, I dare say, many don't. Certainly, experience in my constituency office and in my colleague from Peterborough's constituency office is that we run into cases where people say, "I didn't know what I was buying." We probably all have family who have been involved in it, either not knowing what they're buying or being unable to find any way out of it.

We are determined to ensure that people understand what they're buying. To retailers who may say, "Well, it's pretty onerous on us to spell that out in all that detail and all that clarity," I'd say, "If the product you're selling doesn't stand up to the full light of disclosure, where people have complete understanding of what they're buying, then maybe the product has difficulty in being a sale." To me, almost the cornerstone of this is consumers understanding exactly what they're purchasing in a good price comparison. I looked at what is going on in BC with natural gas retailers, and that's the case.

The cooling-off period: Consumers have a chance for a little bit of sober second thought. That's why there's the 10-day cooling off period, which by the way is standard in a lot of other consumer legislation, I believe, very standard. Then there's what we call third party validation, where a company selected, screened and agreed upon by the Ontario Energy Board makes that call to people and they understand exactly what they have signed on for, and then a last opportunity once you get your bill. That, I believe, will be very helpful in weeding out inappropriate practices. As I say, I'm satisfied that this legislation will tackle those problems, and they have to.

On suite metering, individual metering: It's part of our plan to help people conserve energy. I mentioned before that we are moving to something called smart metering across the province; the public may have heard of that. Currently, or in the past, there was no capability to sort of measure your electricity use by hour. First, it was difficult for you to find a way to manage your own energy use. Secondly, there was no way that the utility could charge a different price depending on the time of day.

I just say again that if we can find ways to shift the use of electricity off those peaks, it is very beneficial to our electricity system, because you don't have to build electricity capacity to those high peaks.

What we're trying to do, and what we are doing, is encouraging people to do that by what is called time-of-use pricing, which means that the price in non-peak hours is lower than in peak hours. So if you're going to do your dishes, don't do them at 6 o'clock, do them at 10 o'clock at night. If you're going to do your laundry, don't do it at 6 o'clock, do it at 10 o'clock at night. We've even moved to help people automatically turn down their air conditioners through the day and then turn them back up at the appropriate time.

We are determined to find ways that people benefit and are encouraged to reduce their use during peak hours. By the way—I did not mention this earlier—part of dealing with the retailers will be to make sure they offer time-of-use pricing. We cannot let this retail area undermine what we're trying to do on energy conservation, so that will be required.

This is back to the second part of the legislation: the individual metering in buildings. I think it's a good balance, and it's always this balance between our very important objective of energy conservation—and that's the suite metering—and making sure that existing tenants are treated fairly. I choose to believe we've found that right balance, where if you're in an existing apartment, you have the option of moving on to suite metering, or not. If you move into an apartment that's already suite-metered, you would understand you're moving into that apartment on the basis that you will be individually billed for your electricity.

I believe we've struck the right balance, and it's a way that the province can move forward pretty aggressively on individual apartment and rental accommodation, but not treat tenants unfairly.

We begin second reading debate today. When the Legislature comes back in a few weeks, I assume we'll continue the second reading debate. My instincts are that there will be a fair bit of interest on the committee work on this as well.

At the end of the day, as they say, I look forward to a piece of legislation that is fair to the business community, fair to the retailers, but very importantly, that the public will say, "You know, that's what was needed. I understand now what I'm buying. I can now make an informed decision."

I dare say that for many of us, when we get this right, it will reduce the workload in some of our constituency offices, because I think all of us deal with people who feel that they have entered a contract that they would have preferred not to be in.

I'm satisfied that we've struck the right balance here. It's an important issue, and I look forward to the debate here in the Legislature and to finally have, when we finish it and if passed, as we always say—if passed—an act that will provide good protection for the consumer.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Further debate?

Hon. Ted McMeekin: Following my colleague is a bit like dancing after Baryshnikov, but that having been said, we'll continue through. I want to begin by saying that as Minister of Consumer Services, it's indeed my pleasure to stand in support of this legislation, the Energy Consumer Protection Act, 2009, and to speak additionally of some of the benefits.

The very best political advice I ever received—I think I've shared this with some of you privately—was from the late, great Sterling Hunt, a farmer up in the Lynden area who, when I was running for mayor of the beloved municipality of Flamborough—which no longer exists, by the way, but that's another day—said, "Ted, tell them what's broke and how you're going to fix it." I think if we stop to think about it a bit, that's really what politics is all about, isn't it? Tell them what's broke and how you're going to fix it.

It's about leaving the place a little bit better than you found it, about making a difference, about giving back, all those things that mom and dad used to talk to us about as we were growing up. Anyhow, that's the personal

part I want to share.

On this legislation, it really is the kind of legislation that my ministry and the McGuinty government believe in very strongly: policies focused on helping to protect everyday working people, ordinary Ontarians, from unfair consumer exploitation. It's the kind of role that Ontarians have come to expect of their government: to act clearly in defence of their right to be treated fairly, honestly and openly in the conduct of commercial affairs, to be treated as customers, not targets, and to be shielded from shady practices and sleight-of-hand salespeople.

This is of particular importance during such challenging economic times as we're facing right now, as my colleague joins me—thank you. These are days when consumers are more likely to be looking for opportunities to save a few bucks. Unfortunately, such an environment is also where the unscrupulous try to make a fast buck at the expense of people, and that's not good; that's not right.

The act does not remove the right of private sector companies to carry out legitimate business activity. We don't want to do that. There should be no complaints from those business people who are running a clean operation and approaching customers in a spirit of openness. Indeed, I'm pleased to say that from a number of legitimate energy retailers, we've enjoyed positive consultations and dialogue. My wife and I are founding members of the Bullfrog movement, the clean, green energy movement; it's a good example of a private company that wants to do the right thing.

So to all those Bullfrog users out there in Ontario, I say good morning and all the best. I say that to everybody, but particularly to the Bullfrog folk out there, who are making a statement every single day about clean energy and how they want to support things that move in that direction.

This act will, of course, be unwelcome to those whose business model relies on misinformation, unethical sales techniques and blatant misdirection. We want to go forth from this place with a very clear understanding that we're not here to support that kind of behaviour. This act will establish clear rules for businesses in the energy retailing industry, and that's important. It's important that we bring clarity and transparency to how consumers should be treated and how they ought to be able to expect that they'll be treated.

Above all else, it places a pronounced focus on granting prospective customers the information and the knowledge necessary to let them make sound decisions. When all is said and done, an educated consumer is a wiser citizen and, I would argue, a better citizen—President John F. Kennedy in his famous address about consumer rights to Congress said that it also ensures that they're better citizens. An informed constituency making good decisions builds consumer confidence and all the positive things that necessarily flow from that. So I just want to get that on the record as well.

Of course, I would be remiss if I didn't take a moment to congratulate my colleague the Minister of Energy and Infrastructure on this important step. I had the good fortune to serve as Minister Phillips's parliamentary assistant and consider him a wonderful mentor. His introduction of legislation this morning is for me an affirmation of the kinds of things and the kinds of values that he and this government, in fact, have stood for in the past and will continue to stand for and fight for as we move forward.

I note with particular enthusiasm that this legislation will extend many of the protections that my ministry offers under the Consumer Protection Act, but it does so in a way that tackles the specific and growing needs of consumers in the large and very competitive energy field.

In the Ministry of Consumer Services, we're keenly aware of the need for action in this area. In fact, in the 2010 edition of our Smart Consumer Calendar, which I know many MPPs have and are very wise in getting distributed in their own riding, there's a whole

section devoted to helping educate consumers about their rights with respect to buying energy. This new legislation of course delivers a vital set of reforms to complement all of the previous educational efforts and the ongoing educational efforts, so this is a helpful addition to that. Again, we want to be as helpful to consumers as we can.

As you've heard already from my colleague, the legislation has three principal thrusts. First, it takes decisive action to ensure energy retailing is conducted in a way that is transparent and fair to consumers, offering them exactly what they need in order to make informed choices. Second, it clearly strengthens consumer protections for those in multi-unit residential buildings, like high-rise apartment buildings, where smart metering and suite metering technology is being introduced.

We know from research internationally that the time-of-use meters, taken as a whole and juxtaposed against previous energy use, have resulted in an average of about a 23% energy conservation factor, and 23% energy savings is certainly something that I suspect everybody in this House would willingly embrace.

Mr. Frank Klees: Good luck.

Hon. Ted McMeekin: Maybe we can even do better than that, Frank. Who knows? Let's hope.

Third, this legislation establishes new standards for consumers facing disconnect or security deposit issues. In our MPP offices, we've all heard from time to time some of the horror stories involved in this particular area.

Each of these initiatives will improve the protection of Ontario consumers. That's fairly obvious. Each of these efforts and initiatives will also increase transparency and enhance information available to consumers. That's good. Each of these initiatives will create a fair environment for Ontario consumers, something that Ontario consumers deserve to expect, and we're adamant that we're going to deliver that fairness, that openness and that fair environment.

The Minister of Energy and Infrastructure, I thought quite helpfully, referenced that and compared it to one who negotiates a mortgage. You can negotiate a fixed rate or a variable rate. In some instances, there are some stories of people who have negotiated a fixed rate that has worked out to be, in the long run, quite favourable to them.

Ms. Leeanna Pendergast: Excellent.

Hon. Ted McMeekin: It would also ensure that each customer is given a standardized accounting on their doorstep, in an easy-to-read format, that will spell out explicitly to the purchaser the price of the energy contract that they are about to enter into, versus the price they currently pay with their existing utility. It would set out clear rules to allow consumers the ability to cancel their contracts under specified conditions, and it would set maximums on cancellation fees.

Again, my colleague the Minister of Energy and Infrastructure has referenced the 10-day cooling-off period, which is standard in the consumer protection business; the 30-day provision; the independent confirmation of the knowledge about the contract; as well as the ability to cancel a contract after the first payment if you discover, to your chagrin, that the terms aren't exactly what you thought they were. So there are all those protections. As we consult, perhaps additional protections might be built in.

We're absolutely determined to get this right. I think the Minister of Energy and Infrastructure has gone quite a ways to ensuring that this legislation is what we need in Ontario, and I know he's open to any enhancements of this legislation. That's just the nature of the man. He has always been open to getting something in place that works better for Ontario consumers. That has always been his modus operandi, and I'm pleased to say that's exactly how we work in the Ministry of Consumer Services as well. He has set a good example.

We'll continue to work hard to set out clear rules that allow consumers to cancel their contracts under those specified conditions and that set maximums on cancellation fees.

Ms. Leeanna Pendergast: Hear, hear.

Hon. Ted McMeekin: I know.

Ms. Leeanna Pendergast: Good stuff.

Hon. Ted McMeekin: You know, it's not always the most exciting stuff, but the day-to-day business of government doesn't have to be charismatic or what have you. It has to be solid. It has to be based on principles and good social policies about "Let's think of this together," telling them what's broke and how you're going to fix it. Right?

Ms. Leeanna Pendergast: Excellent.

Hon. Ted McMeekin: So after the initial contract has been signed, it would require retailers to go back and verify the consumer's attempt to freely enter into that contract, before any deal is considered done.

Finally, it would allow the government to establish new regulatory and training standards for salespeople and, importantly, create legal liability for directors and officers of the electricity retailing and gas marketing companies.

Mrs. Carol Mitchell: More good news.

Hon. Ted McMeekin: You're right: more good news. It is a good-news morning, isn't it? You know what? It has been a good-news week, actually. Isn't there a song about that?

Interjections.

Hon. Ted McMeekin: Well, Russia hasn't launched a satellite this morning, I don't think, so we won't go there.

These are not small matters. For anyone seeking to deliberately make a buck from unfair exploitation of consumers, we want you to know that we intend to force you to clean up your act. We're going to make you clean up your act. These measures will establish a new standard of and for transparency, disclosure and accountability that will surely discourage scam artists and charlatans. They tend to hang out together, the scam artists and the charlatans, right? It will create a series of penalties and remedies that will encourage businesses to act in the best interests of the consumer.

Anybody here in this House who doesn't want to act in the best interests of consumers, raise your hand. No, nobody; I didn't think so.

Let me also take a moment to discuss the issue of security deposits and disconnections, for these too are areas that attract considerable complaint from the public, and understandably so. On the one hand, it is only natural that companies exercise due diligence in the extension of service to those with a checkered past paying their bills. I've been in business. You've got to guard yourself. Being an idealist doesn't mean you're naive, right? You have to protect yourself, and we want to make sure that legitimate businesses are protected as we're clamping down on those scam artists and charlatans who meet in the dark and plot nefarious deeds.

On the other hand, widespread and indiscriminate use of security deposits can become a barrier to accessing service, particularly for vulnerable consumers. We need to have a particular interest in and focus on defending the vulnerable, and this legislation clearly is intended to do exactly that. The challenge here is to ensure a common set of principles and rules. We will bring clarity to a practice that seems far too capricious for the tastes of many individual consumers.

The legislation will allow the OEB to establish transparent guidelines for when and how utilities employ security deposits to ensure that, to the greatest degree possible, utilities maintain their focus on honest-to-goodness credit risks and not just on turning another buck.

The same will be true of disconnections. New rules and clear, transparent measures will be established. Moreover, the legislation will prescribe what classes of consumers cannot be disconnected—I know we've all had those horror stories—subject to certain criteria. Again, the ambition here is to ensure fairness and consistent practice all across this great province of ours. Importantly, this legislation will ensure that such practices in the electricity market are extended to also capture the natural gas and suite-metered sectors.

In wrapping up, I appeal to my fellow members on all sides of this great Legislative Assembly, the people's place, the place where we have important debates and make important decisions that impact literally millions of Ontarians, from the eastern part of the province right through to the Windsor area, from that great urban municipality of Hamilton right up to the northern sections via Kitchener, and elsewhere. To all Ontarians, we want to give assurance that we're trying to do the right thing and that all members of this Legislative Assembly will in fact not only consider these measures now but do a speedy review and ensure a speedy passage of this important legislation.

Mr. Frank Klees: Just deem that it was done.

Hon. Ted McMeekin: Well, some governments have worked that way in the past but we want to make sure we get it right. As the Premier is fond of saying, "None of us is as smart as all of us." So we're going to take our time to get it right, just as we have on other pieces of legislation that we've dealt with recently in this House.

Sound policies to protect consumers are surely a priority that we in this place can all agree upon regardless of partisan stripe. That's what's so wonderful about this place. When something makes sense we embrace it together and we move forward together to better serve—working together to serve the people of Ontario even better, right?

Mr. Frank Klees: Hallelujah. Amen.

Hon. Ted McMeekin: Amen, brother.

The problems to be corrected are not difficult to identify and the solutions are, I believe, we believe, equally apparent. This legislation builds on our province's proud record of strong consumer protection—

Applause.

Hon. Ted McMeekin: They say, "Never step on your applause"—record of strong consumer protection and permits fair commercial activity to unfold. Extending such principles to the energy sector is a logical, progressive and desirable move. Leadership is about doing the right thing. We believe this is the right thing, and our sincere hope is that we will find in this House an agreement, a certain and hopefully unanimous agreement, on this matter.

I thank you for your patience and I thank all the members of the Legislative Assembly for listening so attentively on this important issue. I want to say to the good people of Ontario who may be tuned in this morning that the Minister of Energy and Infrastructure and his team have gone out of their way. I've got to tell you they have worked around the clock, and my ministry has contributed in some small measure to the important legislation before us. It's good legislation. It's the right thing to do. Leadership is about doing the right thing, and all the members of this assembly, regardless of stripe, share the concern that we do the right thing.

Thank you for allowing us this time. As Barack Obama said, "We're not here to fear the future, but to shape it." Let's do so.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Questions and comments?

Mr. John Yakabuski: Interesting. The Minister of Consumer Services talks about working around the clock. Well, you know, David Ramsay introduced a private member's bill that we were going to work with on this subject last year, a year ago. We had second reading a year ago. So it's been a very slow clock if they have been working on it.

Why they're introducing second reading today, the day we're exiting this House for winter recess, is clearly pure politics. They want to send out what they see as a positive Liberal political message for the holidays because they've had so many negative messages with the HST. I've got all the respect in the world for the Minister of Energy and Infrastructure, but to bring a second reading debate today, one hour of debate and then nothing for several weeks, a couple of months, perhaps, seems kind of strange to me.

He talked about a couple of things: sub-metering, or, as they've called it, suite metering. They've changed the term. I guess they want it to sound sweeter. The reality is that we told them in 2004 that they had to go with sub-metering if they wanted to get some gains on energy conservation. That's when we really needed it. Today we actually have a demand that is much lower than our supply, and that's because, when they talk about their lowering those peaks, they've managed to do a good job of lowering demand during those peaks by getting rid of 330,000 manufacturing jobs in the province of Ontario.

That's what has gone on under their watch. So it's kind of rich that they're talking about that kind of thing now.

But in cabinet meetings, George Smitherman, before he was Minister of Energy, and Michael Bryant fought against sub-metering; otherwise, we would have had it in this province sooner. They fought against it because they didn't like the politics of it in their ridings.

The other thing about this bill is that it doesn't speak much about what they're actually going to do. It's very difficult to debate something when it's going to be done in regulation. We know the principles, and we support the principles, because we have to do something about unscrupulous energy retailers; they have to be stopped. But we need to know more about what tools we're actually going to use to do that.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Further questions and comments?

Mr. Paul Miller: We're all in favour of protecting the consumer. The minister stood up and he did quite a theatrical presentation with all kinds of quotes and it was really a very good Hollywood-style presentation. I must credit him on his acting ability.

However, if he really wants to protect the consumer, then maybe he should look at the billing process, because, before I was in this House, I used to look at my bill, and you needed a Philadelphia lawyer to figure out all the charges that come from the middleman, which they created. They allowed middle producers in there that have transportation costs and storage costs and all these other things that the consumers don't really understand, and they sure don't spell it out. I'll tell you, they created a middleman, because I remember when it was just one utility.

You'd pay the utility, you'd pay the gas bill to Union Gas, you'd pay Hamilton Hydro, and then they created this whole group of guys in the middle, squeezing the population for more. More bureaucratic levels were created, and that just costs more money to the consumers.

So when they stand up and say, "We're here to protect the consumer," well, they might not want to create all these bureaucratic levels that get more charges for people, whether it's gas, hydro, you name it, all these things that have been created. When you stand up and say, "We're for the people of Ontario, and we want to protect them," then really do it. Don't create all these other agencies and things that are charging the people of Ontario. That's what they don't talk about.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Questions and comments?

Mr. Phil McNeely: I'd just like to clear up some of the information this morning. The middleman was brought in before 2003. This bill will clean up the mess that was left of not properly legislating these people.

In my experience as a member, I've received many complaints from my constituents about the practices used by some of the less scrupulous door-to-door energy salespeople. I've experienced that first-hand—not only once, but twice. Very plainly, this bill, if passed, will eliminate these practices from the marketplace, and this is extremely important to ensure that seniors on fixed incomes and new Canadians, who perhaps do not have a strong command of the language, are not locked into bad contracts.

It will also allow individual units in apartment buildings to be metered for electricity individually, and this, again, is very important. This will allow those individual owners to control their own costs by lowering their energy use. I'm very much in favour of this measure. Shifting some of the responsibility to use less energy to tenants will help Ontarians to achieve greater greenhouse gas reductions, and we know that is very important, with the talks going on in Copenhagen this week and next.

As we know, conservation is not only good for the environment, but it's the most cost-effective way of cutting energy costs. It is an action that will help us achieve the goal of having 3.6 million customers on time-of-use pricing by 2011. By 2014, the goal is to reduce province-wide greenhouse gas emissions by 6% below the Kyoto-established levels of 1990.

Our Green Energy Act will help us to achieve these targets. Already, the feed-in tariff is being lauded as the best program of its kind in North America. It will lead to a renewable energy upsurge. In fact, green companies are already moving into Ontario. For example, Canadian Solar Inc., which was mentioned in this House yesterday, will be setting up a manufacturing plant. The Green Energy Act is truly a significant step toward building a thriving green economy in Ontario, and this bill we are debating today will only build on the significant achievements made so far.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Further questions and comments?

Mr. Norm Miller: It's my pleasure to have the opportunity to respond to the minister with regard to Bill 235,

An Act to enact the Energy Consumer Protection Act, 2009 and to amend other Acts.

Two minutes, of course, is not much time to hit all the aspects of the bill, but, you know, the minister said that there are 100 to 150 complaints a week with regard to energy retailers. I would say, from my own experience in the riding of Parry Sound—Muskoka, that, through my offices, I have had many complaints where seniors, in particular, are what I call preyed upon by pushy and forceful salespeople going door to door, and just never saying no—sometimes misleading as to the facts. More protection for those individuals is a good thing.

I'd say why not consider making door-to-door sales of anything illegal, because I think the great majority of people don't want to be disturbed at their house by a door-to-door salesperson. I'd be open to consideration of that. It would need fuller investigation for sure.

The minister talked about the provincial benefit. I've got a situation in my riding where a corporation, a manufacturer, signed a fixed-price contract. They say they were misled by the salesperson and didn't realize that the provincial benefit, in a time of low energy prices, actually becomes a cost of thousands of dollars a month to them, and they are quite concerned about that.

I would agree that it is very complicated. Suite metering, as the member from Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke pointed out, is something that we were pushing for many years ago. It allows individual meters for condos or apartments so that people understand and have an incentive to save electricity.

On the surface, this bill looks like something that, certainly, I would like to support. I hope there's no poison pill in it. I hope they take time and don't time-allocate this one, and actually listen to people to try to get this one right.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Thank you. Two-minute response?

Hon. Gerry Phillips: Just to thank all of the members.

The member from Pembroke indicated—sort of a comment that we've got so much supply, we don't have to worry about conservation.

Mr. John Yakabuski: Oh, I did not indicate that.

Hon. Gerry Phillips: Well, you said conservation is not as important now.

I would just say to the public that this is always a challenge. We have to keep relentlessly pursuing conservation, even if supply is seemingly fine. They're somewhat unrelated. I wouldn't want anybody out there who is thinking of conservation to back off at all.

To the member from Hamilton East on the billing, I am determined that our bills become more understandable to the consumer. I don't disagree that it is somewhat difficult.

And earlier, I think about a week ago, to another question in here on the same issue that the member from Parry Sound raised, and that is the provincial benefit, or the—

Mr. John Yakabuski: Global adjustment.

Hon. Gerry Phillips: Global adjustment. Thank you very much. We have to find a way to clarify that.

I want to thank the member for Ottawa—Orléans. The day he arrived here, he was pursuing energy conservation. He was working on the building code, I remember. He's kind of made a career of this. And he was talking about it before many of us were as aware as he was. He's been relentless on this, and very knowledgeable, and I thank him.

To the member for Parry Sound, as I said earlier, we do have to find a way that our bills become clearer. He mentioned the number of complaints he has. He's probably not unique. We need to deal with that, and I believe this legislation does.

Second reading debate deemed adjourned.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): It being just about 10:15, this House stands in recess until 10:30, at which time we will have question period.

The House recessed from 1014 to 1030.

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

Hon. Jim Watson: I'm delighted to welcome two friends in the gallery: Adam Grachnik and Andrew Block. Welcome to Queen's Park.

Mrs. Joyce Savoline: Christopher Dabner's family is back today, including his mom, Katie; his grandma, Nancy Hood, from Tennessee; his brother Geoffrey; and this time also his father, Mike Dabner. Welcome.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I am delighted to welcome the family of our page Jamie Sheidow. Her mom is here, Lori Sheidow, with her sisters Alex and Andie. Welcome. Your sister is doing a great job.

Hon. John Milloy: I'd like to welcome my cousin here today, Janice Habasinski, who's also a proud member of the Ontario public service. She's here to watch question period.

Hon. Monique M. Smith: I would like to welcome back again David Wolfe, our page Sam Wolfe's dad, who is here again with us from North Bay and hopefully celebrating what will be a lovely final day for our group of pages.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): We have with us in the Speaker's gallery a visiting delegation of parliamentarians from the law committee of the Vietnam National Assembly, led by Professor Dr. Phan Trung Lý. Please join me in warmly welcoming our guests to the Legislature today. Welcome.

LEGISLATIVE PAGES

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Hopefully, this is the last day. As much as they don't want to leave, I would just like all members to join me in saying thank you to this group of pages for the great job they've done on all of our behalf.

MEMBERS' ATTENDANCE

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Before we do break for the Christmas holidays, I want to first—

Mr. Gilles Bisson: Who says we're breaking?

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): I certainly would welcome a motion to extend the sitting.

I know we don't make reference to absences, but we do have three members who have been under the weather: Peter Kormos, Pat Hoy and Jim Brownell. On behalf of all of us, and I know they're watching—especially I know Peter Kormos is watching on the Internet—we wish them well and a speedy recovery.

In closing, I just want to take this opportunity to thank the honourable members for their co-operation over the past session, thank the table, thank all the legislative staff, the political staff, and everybody who's there to support us day in and day out. On behalf of the Legislative Assembly of Ontario I want to wish everyone a Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, happy holidays. Have a great festive season. Use it as an opportunity to relax and re-energize. We look forward to seeing you all in the new year. All the best through the holidays.

VISITORS

Mr. Mario Sergio: I have the pleasure of introducing a delegation from Milano, Italy, here. Even though they are on a business trip, they are enjoying our wonderful city and the warm weather that has received them. From Milan, I would like to welcome Franco Invernizzi and the delegation, Joanna Maio, Mr. Enzo and Giancarlo. Benvenuti in Canada.

Mr. Jim Wilson: I want to welcome to the Legislature today Richard Yeates and his son Liam. They were successful at a Knights of Columbus auction to have lunch with their MPP. So, welcome and condolences.

Mr. Charles Sousa: I have some special guests with us today: Jon Vapsva and Vidas Vapsva from Mississauga South. Welcome to Queen's Park.

Mr. Dave Levac: Up in the visitors' gallery is a very dear friend of mine from many years in the education field, who has been watching Queen's Park—and I hope she doesn't hold it against us—Cheryl Fullerton from OECTA. Thank you very much for being here, Cheryl.

ORAL QUESTIONS

GOVERNMENT'S RECORD

Mrs. Christine Elliott: My question is for the Acting Premier. After six years, this government is arrogant and out of touch, and Dalton McGuinty certainly isn't the person voters thought he was. Let's take a look at his economic record: spending $2 million more per hour than received in revenue; adding $13,500 in new debt for each and every family in Ontario; $32 billion of stimulus money and no jobs; Ontario, as a province, receiving welfare; one tax increase after another—the health tax, the HST and now road tolls; Saskatchewan overtaking us in per capita income. What made you think you could get away with that?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: All Ontarians look to their Legislature to lay out plans to build a better and brighter future as we approach the new year. Ontarians acknowledge the work of our federal finance minister and of the federal government with us on the HST. They acknowledge the fact that this plan will create some 600,000 net new jobs in Ontario. They know the challenges that Ontario has been faced with, and they understand the need to make those decisions.

We look forward to the next year, we look forward to growth coming back in Ontario and we only hope that that member and her party will start doing some things that show what they stand for instead of the games and the stunts. Why don't you lay out a plan? Give the—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Mrs. Christine Elliott: But, Acting Premier, nine months ago you said you had a plan to create 300,000 new jobs. You also said you would create 100,000 new student jobs, not to mention the 50,000 new so-called green jobs that you would create. But Ontario has net job losses under the McGuinty Liberals. What made you think you could get away with that?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: Well, about a month ago we announced the Pan Am Games, for Toronto and yesterday, the International Indian Film Academy awards in 2011, a large coup for Ontario. Canadian Solar Inc. announced that it's manufacturing solar panels, moving 500 jobs from China to our province. Just this morning, Toyota announced another 800 workers being hired at the Toyota plant. What did Tim Hudak say about our work with Toyota? He said it was corporate welfare and that we shouldn't have done it.

This government has laid out a plan through difficult times. We're optimistic about the future and about Ontario. We know the people of Ontario will rise to the challenge in the economy. This plan will create jobs, it will lower taxes for people and it will make Ontario bigger, better and stronger as we come out of this global downturn.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Final supplementary.

Mrs. Christine Elliott: The bigger this government's failure to deliver on a job promise, the bigger promise they make the next time. You promised 450,000 jobs since March but delivered none. Now you've promised 600,000 more jobs. Whatever makes you think you can get away with that?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: Just a couple of weeks ago, General Motors announced a third shift at its Ingersoll plant. That member and her party did not support our initiatives to help keep the auto industry in Ontario. They called it corporate welfare. We saw it creating jobs and maintaining jobs. We have three shifts at Chrysler in Windsor, we have a new shift at Ingersoll, 800 more jobs at Toyota and a growing and thriving industry in renewable energy.

We have a thoughtful Premier who has laid out a plan, who sees a brighter future for this province, as opposed to that party: no plan, no future; stunts and slogans in front of the mirror every morning. The people of Ontario see a plan. They like the plan, and they support it. We're going to move forward to a better future in the new year.

GOVERNMENT'S RECORD

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: My question again is for the Acting Premier. After six years, Dalton McGuinty's government has become arrogant and feels entitled to waste taxpayer dollars. Let me refresh your memory on your record: a billion-dollar eHealth boondoggle; forcing nine staff at the Integrity Commissioner's office to review thousands of expenses; hiding bureaucrat salaries and the McKinsey contract in overstretched hospital budgets; sole-sourcing the Maid of the Mist contract; sole-sourcing the Casino Niagara contract; sole-sourcing a $15,000-a-day Windsor Energy Centre that was over budget and turned into a Dwight elephant; and finally, expensing Steve Mahoney's GPS at taxpayers' expense.

Acting Premier, what made you think you could get away with it?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: The people of Ontario recognize that there's been an enormous upheaval in the economy over the last year. I remember a year ago that there was concern that the Detroit Three automakers would leave Canada and close down. Not only are they open and running, they're hiring new people. When that member and her party opposed helping Toyota, they didn't think about the 800 jobs that were announced this morning for an additional shift.

The people of Ontario can see past the empty rhetoric. They can see past the noise. They can see past the stunts. They know that the world and Canadian economies have gone through a tremendous upheaval. They know that we have a Premier who has a vision for the future of this province, a vision that sees more jobs, a growing and thriving economy as we move forward, an economy with challenge—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: Well, when that member and his party took office, they lost millions of jobs in this province and they spent us into deficit. You did nothing to stop the scandals and the waste. You waited—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Stop the clock.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): I am quite content just to stand here, and the pages, I know, do not want to go home. They just told me so.

I would like the honourable members to come to order so we can complete this question period.

Please continue.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: I did not know they were awake for the past six years, but today they just showed that they were. They did nothing to stop the scandals and the waste; they waited until they got caught.

So I'm going to ask him again: What made you think you could get away with it?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: I think Ontarians see the importance of a plan for jobs in the future. I think Ontarians recognize that we have to take important steps forward. I'm really excited about full-day learning in junior and senior kindergarten. That member and her party are voting against it.

I look forward to a rational debate around the important public policy issues that we will contend with. I look forward to debate where members can respectfully put their points of view, have their differences. But most importantly, I look forward to a brighter new year with more jobs for Ontario, full-day learning for junior and senior kindergarten—a brighter future with more jobs, new investments coming to Ontario, and 600,000 families with a brighter future because of the tough choices this government's made in a calm, cool and rational fashion.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Final supplementary.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: That member and his party know who got rich off the scandals and the waste because they did the deals. You can keep your secrets, and you can continue to block a public inquiry into the eHealth billion-dollar boondoggle.

You've dodged, deflected and stonewalled each and every question we have asked, so let's try it—the sixth time is a charm: What made you think you could get away with it?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: The job plan that we've laid out is important to Ontario's future. It is important that we work together, have our debates in a calm and rational way and focus on the issues that are important to people: jobs, learning opportunities, better post-secondary education.

The Premier of Ontario, Premier McGuinty, has laid out a plan that we believe is the right plan. We welcome the support of the federal government on our tax reform plan. We look forward to implementing our full-day learning program for junior and senior kindergarten. We are happy with the announcement at Toyota today.

We are still not completely out of the woods, but unlike that member and her party, we have a focused, positive view for a better future for Ontario, more jobs for our families and a higher standard of living. That's what's important to the people of Ontario, not the cheap rhetoric and the stunts.

GOVERNMENT'S RECORD

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My question is to the Acting Premier. Over the last four months, the very people who make this province work have watched as the government that's supposed to stand up for them has repeatedly failed them, from an unfair tax scheme that leaves them paying more, just to finance another corporate tax giveaway, to a billion-dollar scandal that saw scarce health dollars flow into the pockets of well-connected insiders while local emergency rooms closed.

My question is this: Why has this government put the interests of the people of this province last, time and time again?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: This Premier and his government have put the interests of the people first. Let me remind the member: That member and her party opposed support to the domestic auto industry at a time when they were threatening to pull out of Ontario. There are tens of thousands of Ontarians working today because of that.

That member and her party opposed us when we assisted Toyota Motor company to locate here in Ontario, and today they announced yet another 800 jobs. They spoke against that kind of assistance.

That member and her party voted yesterday against the tax cut for the lowest-income Ontarians, contrary to the advice of her party's own economists. That member and her party yesterday voted against doubling the property tax credit for seniors.

Premier McGuinty and this government have a better view for Ontario's future than that member does. We're optimistic about the future. We'll continue to make the tough—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Just saying it doesn't make it so, unfortunately, and the finance minister needs to realize that. The people who make Ontario work have been ignored, flatly ignored, by a government that has grown increasingly arrogant and out of touch.

The legislation this government so proudly stood for yesterday will make life more expensive—it absolutely will—every time people fill up their cars, every time they heat their homes, when they turn on the lights, even when they buy a Christmas tree.

Ontario families already spend a lot of time going over their expenses each and every day to try to scrimp and save, to make ends meet. They make tough decisions about what they can and can't afford. My question is this: Why is their government ignoring them?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: Our government has responded to the genuine needs of the people of Ontario resultant from one of the worst downturns in the western economy since the Great Depression.

We took steps immediately to invest in the auto sector when that member and her colleagues said not to. We took steps to increase the property tax credit for Ontario seniors. That member and her party voted against that.

When that member and her party spoke against and voted against Second Career, a real opportunity for 21,000 Ontarians to get retraining, we stood strong. Now more than 25,000 people have gone through that program successfully.

There are no doubt difficult issues. Our Premier has the leadership and the courage to take good and tough decisions to build a better future, a brighter future for all Ontarians, with more jobs and higher incomes.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Final supplementary.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: The only thing New Democrats were concerned about was making sure that this government didn't flush more money down the toilet and not guarantee jobs with those investments, and of course we know that they didn't, in many cases.

But this is about the McGuinty government and the fact that it is so out of touch that ministers, in fact, are surprised that people do not want to see the harmonized sales tax in this province. The government is so arrogant that they rammed it through with almost no consultation or debate. There were no hearings on this unfair tax outside of Toronto, and Liberal MPPs walked off the job to ensure that the committee that was reviewing this tax and did actually hold those very few hearings was not even allowed to report it to the House.

Does the minister really think that by just ignoring thousands and thousands of people who write to us every single day about the HST, their concerns are just going to magically go away?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: We've been focused on public consultations, not on hurling insults—insulting the integrity and character of honourable members—and stunts. We will continue to be out in the public, to work with the people of Ontario, to help explain the benefits of this plan.

The third party chooses to insult people, throw words around—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): I would ask the member from Hamilton East to please come to order and particularly, if he's not going to be sitting in his seat, to not be interrupting the House.

Hon. Dwight Duncan: They choose to hurl personal insults.

I think the people of Ontario know they have a Premier who has his eye on the future of this province, a Premier of integrity and of decency, who is putting forward a plan to create tens of thousands—hundreds of thousands—of jobs.

These decisions aren't easy. They do require a lot of consultation. That's why we spent nine months up until now, and that's why we'll spend more time helping people see that. We believe very strongly that this province has a better and brighter future. We've tried to lay out a plan that we think will lead to us to that future. I'm optimistic about the future, and I—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): New question.

GOVERNMENT'S RECORD

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My next question is, again, to the Acting Premier. Since this legislative session started in September, people have been let down by a government that has grown arrogant after six years in office.

In October, we learned about the shocking waste of one billion precious health care dollars at eHealth. Days later, we discovered the government was hiding bloated health bureaucrats' salaries in hospital budgets. Then, people watched as local emergency rooms began to close and the Premier mused on further health cuts. Why is the McGuinty government ignoring the health care concerns of the people of Ontario?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: I think the people of Ontario see a government that has brought forward things: a plan for 600,000 jobs, full-day learning, nurse practitioners' clinics, cap and trade, and a Green Energy Act, creating jobs. They've seen a government that has responded to real issues around the proper oversight of eHealth by taking the recommendations of the Provincial Auditor and moving forward.

We're going to continue our focus on creating jobs. We're going to continue our focus on working with all Ontarians to make this province a better place, to improve our education and health systems, to make the kinds of investments that will improve life for all Ontarians.

I regret the tenor of the name-calling and the language that is used around here. We look forward to an informed and rational debate around the future of Ontario, a future which we know is full of promise, full of hope for all of our citizens.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: It's not just in health care. This government has also let down Ontarians who have lost their jobs. The unemployment rate is the highest it's been in 15 years in this province. From Windsor to Hamilton to Timmins, jobs continue to vanish. Rather than a plan to create jobs, this government chose to ram through an unfair tax that the Ontario Chamber of Commerce says will cost us 40,000 jobs a year. Why is the McGuinty government so blatantly ignoring the plight of unemployed people in the province of Ontario?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: I think Ontarians understand that the world economy has gone through a difficult period. I think they understand that job losses are extraordinarily high throughout the Western world.

Hon. Gerry Phillips: They're looking for leadership.

Hon. Dwight Duncan: As my colleague says, they've been looking for leadership.

We've laid out a plan; that member and her party have not. A lot of rhetoric, a lot of harsh language, a lot of personal attacks on the character of our members and the character of members of the Legislature—we reject that kind of politics. We embrace the politics of hope. We look forward to a better year ahead on this last day of 2009. No doubt this has been a difficult year, particularly for those families who have lost their jobs. But as long as one family wants a job, wants a better life, this Premier and his government won't rest until we deliver that.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Final supplementary.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: If this government's big-budget production were a Bollywood blockbuster, it would surely be called The Big Letdown: people forced to drive for hours to find an emergency room as health care dollars are squandered on well-connected consultants; an unfair tax scheme that works like Robin Hood in reverse, forcing struggling and unemployed people to pay more so that profitable corporations are able to pay less; a government that refuses to listen to the very real concerns of everyday people.

My question is simple: How could this government have allowed things to get this bad?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: Again, I think the people of Ontario understand the challenges of the global economy. I think they reject the politics of division, the politics that that member espouses.

Interjection: You underestimate people, Andrea.

Hon. Dwight Duncan: She really does underestimate the people of this province and their resilience.

There is no doubt, like all over the Western world, too many people lost their jobs. Too many people are more vulnerable today than they were at this time last year. But they have a government that's laid out a plan, a solid plan that, according to the NDP's own economists, will create 600,000 jobs. That member and her party have not. They continue to use empty rhetoric, to hurl insults around, to undermine the integrity of people in this province who want a better future.

This is a party and government about hope. This is a party and government that will deliver a plan to get people back to work in Ontario, and the working families of this province know that.

HIGHWAY TOLLS

Mr. Toby Barrett: My question is to the Acting Premier. The ink wasn't even dry on your greedy HST tax grab before you announced that you're thinking about slapping new taxes and tolls on public highways. What makes you think you can get away with this one?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: I don't know where he gets that from. I think that is not—

Hon. Rick Bartolucci: It's a Tory story.

Hon. Dwight Duncan: It's just a Tory story, devoid of fact. I thought the Minister of Transportation spoke about Highway 407. It's a tolled highway. When the extension proceeds, it will.

That party has offered no solutions. That party continues to rely on empty rhetoric, on stunts in the Legislature, on yelling and shouting. The people of Ontario want more than that. They want a plan that recognizes the bright future of this province, that recognizes the challenging times we've come through. Our Premier has shown leadership and integrity. We're committed to building the jobs, to building the future that all Ontarians demand and deserve.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Mr. Toby Barrett: I know specifically where I got this one; it's a quote in the Toronto Star. It's from Environment Minister Gerretsen, when he was asked about slapping fees on existing public highways: "We are open to anything that will reduce greenhouse gas emissions...."

Ontario families already pay taxes at the pumps. Dalton McGuinty's HST on everything will make those families pay even more to fill up. Now you want them to pay even more, with talk of fees.

Again, what makes you guys think that you can get away with this?

Interjection: Come on, give it to Jim.

Hon. Dwight Duncan: To the Minister of Transportation.

Hon. James J. Bradley: I should first of all remind the member, through the Speaker, that the deal of the century was negotiated by the Conservative government. When they were faced with a deficit, they decided they would sell Highway 407 at a bargain basement price to balance it. Then they allowed Highway 407 to charge whatever price they wanted for their tolls. Then they allowed them to take people's licences away. They signed the deal of the century, and now you ask that question?

I've clearly said, when asked, and our position has consistently been that we have no plans to toll existing highways in the province of Ontario. I don't know how much clearer I can be than that. I know that you are concerned because this government may be looking at reducing emissions of some kind, and your government—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

SEWAGE SLUDGE

Mr. Peter Tabuns: My question is for the Minister of Health. Two weeks ago, the member from Nickel Belt raised concerns in this chamber about the health dangers of sewage sludge being spread on the flood plains of the South Castor River near the village of Vernon. Residents and farmers depend on the health of that river, which is used to irrigate fields. They wrote to the Minister of Health about their concerns about a month ago.

What action has the minister or the government taken to address the sludge-related health concerns of Vernon residents?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I know the member opposite understands that this is an issue that the Minister of the Environment has been working very, very hard on. We are committed to the health of the people of Ontario. We've taken important steps to ensure that Ontarians are just as healthy as they can be. That includes our ban on the cosmetic use of pesticides and the tremendous investments we've made to clean up our drinking water—a number of initiatives.

We take the environment very seriously. We absolutely understand the link between the environment and our health care. The member opposite does understand that this particular aspect of our health care is under very, very careful review by our Minister of the Environment.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Mr. Peter Tabuns: The minister has deflected the question. The letter that was sent by the residents has not been responded to. Independent tests are showing four times the level of E. coli in the water coming into the South Castor that is allowed by this province. That indicates that all kinds of other contaminants are going into the river. Clearly, the Minister of the Environment is not paying attention to this issue.

To the Minister of Health: Will she act to protect the residents of Ontario? Will she act to stop the spreading of sewage sludge on flood plains in this province?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: We in Ontario have the highest standards of drinking water in the world. We continue to protect drinking water.

Let me shed a little bit of light, though, on the new regulatory framework for non-agricultural source material. There is a new regulatory framework for the management of biosolids and other non-agricultural source materials. This new framework includes new and improved standards for these materials in the nutrient management regulation. It includes removal of duplicative requirements for farmers, haulers and generators. There's a focus on the quality of the material that is being applied to land, and we are committed to maintaining Ministry of the Environment oversight and enforcement.

Collectively, these are exactly the steps we need to be taking to continue improving the health of Ontarians.

CONSUMER PROTECTION

Mr. Bill Mauro: My question is for the Minister of Energy and Infrastructure. Minister, this week our government tabled legislation that is designed to protect consumers from unfair, misleading practices of retailers, particularly energy retailers selling door to door in our province. This has been a real issue in my riding and, I can believe, probably in almost every other riding in the province.

Every week, constituents contact my office because they've had problems with energy retailers. These salespeople make promises, but they don't provide the full details of the contract. The information they provide is often incomplete or misleading. Many consumers quickly discover they're actually paying more, and in countless cases the retailer makes no effort to ensure the person who is signing the new contract has signing authority over the existing account. When the consumer attempts to get out of these questionable contracts, they frequently face harsh financial penalties.

Minister, are you confident that this legislation will rein in these retailers, and will this bill actually deal with the issues my constituents have raised?

Hon. Gerry Phillips: I thank the member for the question. I would say that I think virtually every member of the Legislature has had similar issues. The bill does deal with each of the issues that the member just raised. It deals with proper conduct by door-to-door salespeople, which is not taking place in all cases now. It deals with ensuring that the information that people are provided with before they sign the contract is clear and understandable. It deals with holding the companies accountable for the actions of the door-to-door salespeople, and it does provide much better cancellation provisions, I would say, through you, Mr. Speaker, to the member; my apologies.

The bill does deal with each of those. We began debate today. I look forward to input from the Legislature and improvements, if we can see any.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Mr. Bill Mauro: Minister, thank you for the response. The bill does seem to address most of the issues and problems my constituents have repeatedly raised. My concern is what this will still really mean for them. The information that is going to be provided back to my constituents, as well as other constituents in most ridings across the province, is what we're really interested in finding out. I know it's what the people in my riding are most interested in. In numerous cases, we've heard about constituents not being fully informed about the impact and aspects of the contracts that they've signed.

How will this bill ensure that my consumers have accurate and adequate information?

Hon. Gerry Phillips: Well, that's at the heart of this issue, I think, and that is that people need to understand clearly what they're buying. The best analogy I can provide to the House is that we all kind of know that on mortgages you can get a fixed-rate mortgage or you can get a variable-rate mortgage. What these retailers are offering on gas and electricity is a fixed rate over a period of time. What you get from Toronto Hydro, for example,is a variable rate. But people do not understand the detail of that. This legislation will require that people have a clear understanding.

I look at British Columbia. You can go on a website and you can get clear information on fixed contracts on natural gas purchases.

The answer to my colleague is that the legislation provides us with the opportunity to make sure the consumer is clearly understanding what they're buying and makes an informed choice, and we'll make sure that—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

SKILLS TRAINING

Mrs. Elizabeth Witmer: My question is to the Minister of Training, Colleges and Universities. Minister, I ask this question today on behalf of the thousands of unemployed men and women, not just in the region of Waterloo but throughout the province of Ontario, whose lives have been shattered yet again by the McGuinty government's management and retroactive rule changes to the Second Career program, which means they won't qualify for retraining despite promises made to them eight months ago that they would. These people are flocking to my office because you refused to help them—you, on the other side.

Minister, I ask you, where is the compassion and the fairness for these men and women? And what makes your government think you can get away with treating these people in such a cavalier and disdainful manner?

Hon. John Milloy: I know the member in no way wants to suggest that somehow she has a monopoly on compassion for unemployed workers in the province of Ontario. Every member of this House is concerned about those who are looking for a job in our province. We introduced, in June 2008, a Second Career program targeted at 20,000 Ontarians. Despite the ongoing criticism from her and her party, after 17 months, we were able to surpass that number at 21,000, and we made a decision not to end the program but to continue it and welcome 8,000 more people into training.

I also know that the member would never want to leave the impression that these are the only supports that are available to those who are looking for a job. In the supplementary, I'll be quite happy to share what some of those supports are, to those who—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mrs. Elizabeth Witmer: Our office has been inundated with people walking in, faxing, e-mailing, demonstrating and telling us they are being treated in a cavalier and disdainful manner.

I ask you today, Minister, why did you break your promise of retraining to these unemployed men and women? Will you, today, demonstrate fairness and compassion and accept the applications of those who had submitted them under the old rules, and jumped through about eight months of hoops to qualify?

Hon. John Milloy: I would like to inform this House that there has been no one who has been accepted into the Second Career program who has not proceeded with their training going forward. It is absolutely wrong to somehow represent that the opposite is true. The fact of the matter is, in the Kitchener—Waterloo area alone, 1,107 people have enrolled in Second Career training since June 2008. The Second Career program is an application-based program.

It is not for everyone, but for all those Ontarians who are looking for jobs we have a variety of services: job-finding clubs, resumé-writing workshops, interview preparation courses, Job Connect, literacy and basic skills, career preparation and counselling, targeted wage subsidies.

It's a good thing for those thousands of people who are part of this training program that we did not listen to the honourable member and her party, who were calling for us to end the program and did nothing but criticize and mock it for the past two years.

INFRASTRUCTURE

PROGRAM FUNDING

Mr. Peter Tabuns: My question is for the Minister of Infrastructure. The Auditor General's report this week reports that very little of the money that has flowed to municipalities for infrastructure has been going to transit, roads and homes; that, in fact, for the 2007-08 year, only 6% of the province's $900 million in municipal infrastructure has been used by municipalities. Tens of thousands of Ontario families are struggling with the recession. Why isn't your government doing more to make sure that those families are getting the jobs they need?

Hon. Gerry Phillips: My colleague here, the Minister of Finance, in the budget announced, I think, the most ambitious infrastructure program certainly in Canada and in the history of the province—$32 billion. You should be aware, and probably are aware, that all of this is on our website.

You mentioned transit. Honestly, no government has been as aggressive in support for public transit as this government, whether it be the extension to the Spadina subway; in my area, work beginning on the Sheppard extension; the support for Metrolinx transit projects; and right across Ontario.

I think the public probably understands that no government has put support for rapid transit and transit like we have. That's part of our green energy plan and part of creating—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. Peter Tabuns: Well, I'll give you this: You're very aggressive about making announcements, but the reality is, of the 25 municipalities that the Auditor General examined, only two had used all their funding and 15 municipalities hadn't spent any of their infrastructure money.

You're saying that you can spend $32 billion over the next few years. How can the people of Ontario believe that when you can't even flow a billion dollars and get people back to work?

Hon. Gerry Phillips: I announced here in the Legislature about three weeks ago—

Interjection: You announced.

Hon. Gerry Phillips: No, no. You've got to listen to the answer. We record how we're doing on each project. We've got 2,600 projects under way out there. We are moving forward aggressively. We measure where we stand on them, how much progress we're making.

I repeat to the public: a $32-billion infrastructure program over two years—very aggressive leadership in that area. The projects are under way. All you've got to do is go on the website to see the progress on them.

So I'm actually quite pleased with the progress we're making. As I said here in the Legislature about three weeks ago, there's lots to come in the next year and a half to continue to create jobs.

AFFORDABLE HOUSING

Mr. Jeff Leal: My question is for the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing. We've seen a major commitment from all levels of government to deliver more housing to those who need it most. At the end of the day, Ontarians are not looking for bickering between the different levels of government. They want us to work with each other to deliver housing for them.

There are seniors on fixed incomes who need a safe, clean, affordable place to live. There are young families who want to see their children succeed and need our help to ensure that they get off to the right start. These are some of the people who will benefit from our commitment to housing.

When the minister speaks to the House, he'll often speak about the investments we're making using the large province-wide numbers. Frankly, $1.2 billion sounds like a lot, but how does this translate into our communities? Minister, I want a straight answer and no spin.

Hon. Jim Watson: With friends like that, absolutely.

I welcome the question from the honourable member, and it's true: We often do speak about the large number, $1.2 billion. But what it translates into is housing and providing a home for some of the most vulnerable people in our society. Earlier this fall, 48 housing units were announced by the honourable member in Peterborough. Next week I'll be joined by my colleagues from Ottawa in announcing a very important project for victims of domestic violence in our hometown of Ottawa, and in Burlington, 65 homes are being built now for low-income seniors. These are investments that are not only helping the most vulnerable; they're creating 23,000 jobs in the province of Ontario.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Mr. Jeff Leal: That was a great answer. I appreciate the update. As you said, it's important to always remember that there are people we're doing this for. I'm proud that in my riding, as a result of the extension of the affordable housing program, 71 new homes will be built and over 1,000 homes will benefit from the renovations made.

Our government—and you, as Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing—have championed the positive relationship that we've built with our municipal partners. It is a relationship defined by historic consensus. A report announced that last year they began the uploading of a number of services. I want to know what work specifically has been done to foster that positive working relationship with municipalities.

Hon. Jim Watson: I'm proud of the work that we've done to foster a much more productive and positive relationship with the municipal sector, whether it's through the memorandum of understanding, the uploading or the record amount of infrastructure money that we brought down to the local level. It's a track record that we first started when we had the honour of forming government in 2003.

In the spirit of Christmas, let me quote someone who normally does not support our government when she said, "We applaud the province for signing this new Canada-Ontario affordable housing agreement. Long-term partnerships such as this are needed to ensure income and housing security for all members of society.

"Halton region is delighted the province of Ontario is pursuing partnerships with municipalities to deliver improved access to provincial services and programs."

Who said this? Let me just check: Joyce Savoline, regional chair for Halton. I thank the honourable member, who is now my critic. She was right then. She's not always right now, but I appreciate her sentiments.

TOURISM

Mr. Robert W. Runciman: My question is to the Minister of Tourism. Minister, as I'm sure you know, the Tourism Industry Association of Ontario commissioned a study to determine the HST impacts on different segments of tourism in the province because, as the association said, "The impacts on tourism have either been overlooked or not considered." The study shows that the HST will result in costs paid by visitors increasing as much as 44%. The HST will result in widespread increases on visitor-related goods and services, causing dramatic price jumps for travellers.

Minister, you're supposed to be the advocate for the tourism sector around the cabinet table. How could you let this damaging tax go forward without raising alarm bells? What makes you think you can get away with failing to stand up for the sector that you were appointed to represent?

Hon. Monique M. Smith: I'd like to thank the honourable member from Leeds—Grenville for the opportunity to respond and to wish him a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, as we spend a lot of time together: We're both House leaders and he's also my critic.

As the member knows, the report or the letter that he quotes from is far outdated. We have been working very closely with the tourism sector since the introduction of the HST in the spring budget, on a number of fronts. Our spring budget allocated $40 million in ongoing annual funding to support the regional destination marketing in Ontario's tourism regions once they are established. Since that time, we've worked with the sector in supporting them and ensuring a further $25 million annually to transition to the new structure and to allow for our tourism partners to settle into the new structure. We've been working closely with them. We think this is going to—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. Robert W. Runciman: It was a study and not a letter, and it was done quite recently. Minister, the study ran a number of visitor scenarios, and the findings should have been alarming to you and your cabinet colleagues. For example, for a weekend getaway for two visiting Niagara-on-the-Lake and the Shaw Festival, taxation as a per cent of total costs jumps 44%; a one-week camping holiday for a family of five, up 33%; a three-day family ski holiday, up 25%. The Canadian Resort Development Association says that the HST completely takes away the province's competitive edge locally and internationally.

Minister, you've failed to do your job. What makes you think you can get away with abandoning the people you're supposed to fight for by supporting a tax grab that will do significant damage to an already struggling industry?

Hon. Monique M. Smith: I just want to reiterate that we have been working closely with this sector and addressing their concerns.

I'd like to quote Dick Brown, the executive director of the Ottawa Gatineau Hotel Association, who said on December 5: "At the end of the day, the HST could turn out to leave us as well off or better off than we are today. I think it's a great opportunity for Ottawa."

While we are on quotes, I always think it's important to remind my friend, who sometimes forgets where he was not that long ago: "Historically"—this is quoting Mr. Runciman, the member for Leeds—Grenville—"the Progressive Conservatives have supported the concept of the HST," and that was in the Brockville Recorder and Times on December 8, 2009, a mere two days ago.

I think we're all very clear on where the opposition party is on this, and I think that the tourism sector will be well served by this new tax structure, including all the corporate taxation cuts that will greatly assist them—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

HEALTH CARE FUNDING

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My question is to the Minister of Health. Over the past three months, New Democrats have regularly raised the issues of health care cuts in the Niagara region. Those cuts continue to this day. The Niagara Health System recently announced the closure of 39 hospital beds: 22 in Welland, 10 in Port Colborne and seven in Fort Erie. Fort Erie and Port Colborne already had lost their local emergency rooms as well.

When it comes to health care, my question is this: Why are Niagara residents being treated like second-class citizens?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: Sometimes there's a healthy debate in this House and sometimes there's just a blatant misrepresentation of the facts. This one—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I welcome the opportunity to correct the member opposite. We have made substantial investments in health care right across this province. That is true in the Niagara region, as true as it is anywhere else.

We not only have spent money; we have seen results. We have well over 800,000 more people who have access to family health care. We've increased hospital funding by well over 40%. We're seeing shorter wait times. People are getting access to services much more quickly—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: The facts speak for themselves. It's as if Niagara residents are being made to pay for this government's health care misspending—the billion-dollar eHealth scandal, precious health dollars flowing into the pockets of well-connected insiders, bloated health care executive salaries hidden in hospital budgets, and massive waste in the assistive devices program.

The McGuinty government seems to be spending health care dollars on everything but front-line services. Until it can get its health care spending in check, will the minister place an immediate moratorium on all cuts to beds, to layoffs and to front-line staff in Niagara?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I think it's important that people understand that our health care system is much, much healthier now than it was before. We are focusing on supporting our hospitals. We're also really making important investments in community-based supports. We're actually trying to reduce the reliance on hospitals, because if people don't need to be in the hospitals, then we don't want them to be in the hospitals. We want to provide supports in the community, at home, in other places, where they can get the right amount of support at the right time.

As people stay shorter periods of time in hospitals, we actually are decreasing our reliance on hospitals. It's part of our strategy towards a sustainable health care system in this province, so we're making significant investments to improve the quality of care for Ontarians.

We understand that change is difficult, but—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

WILDLIFE PROTECTION

Mrs. Carol Mitchell: My question is for the Minister of Natural Resources. While certain members of the Legislature have been preoccupied with childish games and petulant antics, Ontarians have been focused on several very important questions: What criteria does Santa use to determine if one is naughty or nice? Does Santa prefer oatmeal or chocolate chip cookies? Does Santa have an enhanced driver's licence for his sleigh?

Children are especially concerned with Santa's reindeer. They know Ontario's north is home to Donner, Dasher, Blitzen and their cousin the caribou. Ontario's children cannot in good conscience settle off to sleep on Christmas Eve without knowing that their government is doing all it can to protect and support these majestic animals. Would the minister assure this House, Ontario's children and Santa Claus that we are?

Hon. Donna H. Cansfield: I'm pleased to respond to the member from Huron—Bruce, of course. This is of paramount importance at this time of year, and Santa needs to know that that caribou and his cousin the reindeer are protected—in particular, the flying reindeer, and Rudolph the most.

But the most important thing that we're able to do is to provide protection for habitat and protection for the reindeer itself. This is particularly important to give Santa some peace of mind, as he is doing that list that he has to do. He has to pick out who's been naughty and who's been nice. Now, Mr. Speaker, you know how to do that and you do that very well, so you know how difficult it might be for Santa to do. So he's got to have peace of mind that in fact those reindeer are protected, and protected they are and will continue to be for many years to come, for all the children in Ontario.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Mrs. Carol Mitchell: I trust that the minister is doing all she can do to avoid appearing on the "naughty" list.

Children around Ontario are looking forward to lighting the menorahs, the kinara candles and Christmas tree lights. They are decking the halls and jingling bells. The young and the young at heart are eager for the joyous season to get into full swing.

So many families will be gathering Christmas morning around Christmas trees grown right here in Ontario. It's a well-established fact that the finest Christmas trees in the world are Ontario trees. Spruce, pine and fir trees from Ontario are gorgeous, but without action from our government, these treasures could be at risk. Can the minister please assure this House that generations to come will enjoy Christmas the right way, gathered around an Ontario tree?

Hon. Donna H. Cansfield: I'm pleased to rise and respond. The Ministry of Natural Resources has an extraordinary program of silviculture to ensure that we renew this resource on a continual basis.

The Ontario fir tree or the balsam or the spruce has for years been a tradition—

Mr. John Yakabuski: What about the Scotch pine?

Hon. Donna H. Cansfield: —or Scotch pine—a tradition for families. We encourage people to purchase a natural tree. That helps the industry. It reassures that we are continuing to support our forestry industry, and at the same time recognizes that this is an Ontario tradition.

So, to everyone in the House, may I wish them the very best for the holiday season. Merry Christmas, and please remember: Buy an Ontario tree.

DRIVER EXAMINATION CENTRES

Mr. Jim Wilson: My question is for the Minister of Labour. I want to just say that this naughty government has done nothing to address the ongoing DriveTest strike, which is now in its 17th week and affecting over 400,000 Ontarians, and that number grows by over 4,000 people every day.

Throughout this session the government has dithered, delayed and denied action while driving instructors, small businesses and truck drivers are at risk of losing their jobs, just before Christmas.

So I ask, will the Minister of Labour agree to swift passage of my bill or bring in his own bill to end the strike today so that people can get back to work, pay their bills and feed their families? What makes you think that doing nothing is a fair option for the people affected by this strike?

Hon. Peter Fonseca: I want to thank the member for the question, because it gives me an opportunity to speak about our labour relations record in this province. We have the best labour relations record in this province in over 30 years. The reason that we have that type of labour relations record, where over 97% of agreements are done without any work stoppage, is because we have some of the best mediators in the world. Those mediators are there to assist, especially in difficult situations and in difficult negotiations like we have right now with DriveTest.

I know that the parties are working with the Ministry of Labour mediators, and they're scheduling meeting dates for the very near future. I say to the member, look at our labour relations system. It's one that works, and others look to it.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Mr. Jim Wilson: This House is set to rise for at least nine weeks. After today, there will be no legislative means available to end the DriveTest strike. By the time this House returns in mid-February, more driving instructors will be out of work, driving schools will be forced to close their doors, new immigrants won't be able to get the jobs that they were promised when they came to this country, and truck drivers won't be able to upgrade their skills. So I ask again: Why is the government being so ignorant to the plight of these people? Why won't you act today? What makes you think that doing nothing is fair to the over 400,000 people directly affected by this strike?

Hon. Peter Fonseca: From what the member has said, I can understand all those who have been inconvenienced by this work stoppage. But the member knows full well that the best deal, the most productive deal, the most stable deal is one that is negotiated at the bargaining table. As I just mentioned to the member, through the assistance of the Ministry of Labour mediator, the parties are going to be getting back to the table and working out their differences. I trust that they'll conclude and do everything they can with a new collective agreement. This is the right way to move forward.

What the member is saying, what the member is condoning, is not the correct manner in which to move forward. We have great labour relations in this province. We will continue to work with employees, with labour and with employers.

HERITAGE CONSERVATION

Mr. Peter Tabuns: My question is to the Minister of Culture. The minister was asked yesterday in question period what action she would take to protect the view of the Ontario Legislature. The view of this building is threatened by a development on Bloor. She refused to commit to any action, ignoring calls for action from the chairman of the Ontario Heritage Trust, Lincoln Alexander.

If the provincial government itself refuses to step forward to protect the dignity of the Ontario Legislative Building, who does the minister expect really will look after our heritage?

Hon. M. Aileen Carroll: I would strongly disagree with the honourable member's suggestion that I am ignoring the chair of the Ontario Heritage Trust. That would be most inaccurate, because I have fully appreciated the work that he has done and the advice that he has rendered, along with that very venerable agency and the board.

In this case, a letter has been leaked, and it has caused confusion on the other side of the House—confusion that is unwarranted. I indeed value his opinions. I think it's important we note that while there is a great deal of expertise at the Ontario Heritage Trust, there are a variety of views among heritage experts on whether or not the visual context of a cultural site should be protected; indeed, whether or not it is our prerogative to step into the planning of this city in a variety of dimensions. So I—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Mr. Peter Tabuns: Neither the Minister of Culture nor the Ministry of Municipal Affairs and Housing even bothered to show up at the preliminary hearing at the Ontario Municipal Board. If indeed she was listening to Mr. Lincoln Alexander, I think that she would have taken a different position. The government has refused to declare provincial interest in protecting the dignity of the Legislative Assembly. It has not sought official status in the OMB hearings.

Unless the provincial government steps forward and declares this hearing to be of provincial interest, representatives of the city and other heritage advocates have little hope of protecting the dignity of the Legislature at the OMB. Why is the minister refusing to take the necessary actions to protect the unique heritage and architectural role of the Ontario Legislature in the city of Toronto?

Hon. M. Aileen Carroll: Au contraire, I think we have done much to protect heritage here in this city, and throughout the province as well. Queen's Park is a very important heritage landmark in the province; indeed, it symbolizes our parliamentary democracy. I know, as I said yesterday, that all members of this House value the treasure in which we work and the heritage that it represents. I think it must be remembered that crown properties, just in case that is being suggested, are ineligible for designation by the province or municipalities under the Ontario Heritage Act.

With regard to whether or not the municipal affairs department, or mine, chooses to engage to ask for amicus curiae status at an Ontario Municipal Board hearing is our choice to render. Since that hearing is now under way, I do not intend to speak further on that dimension of this matter.

OLYMPIC TORCH RELAY

Mr. Jean-Marc Lalonde: My question is to the Minister of Tourism. Minister, I'm very excited to tell this House that tomorrow afternoon, December 11, the Olympic flame, as part of the torch relay, will be welcomed to Ontario for the first time as it enters the town of Hawkesbury in the beautiful riding of Glengarry—Prescott—Russell. I am delighted to be participating in this historic and very important occasion and so proud that Hawkesbury will be featured on national and international media. The Olympic torch is a very important part of the games.

Can the minister tell the House what the McGuinty government is doing in support of the torch relay in Ontario?

Hon. Monique M. Smith: Thank you to the member for Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, who's a huge proponent and supporter of the Olympic torch run in Ontario. The Olympic games in Vancouver this year are really Canada's games, and we are excited to be a partner in this.

The Olympic torch relay will cover 6,000 kilometres in Ontario and travel through 232 Ontario communities. In 42 of those communities, we will be hosting celebration sites. We will also be supporting 20 First Nations communities which will be hosting blessings of the flame as they go through their communities. We are supporting 38 of our communities with a $15,000 contribution. Another four will be receiving a $35,000 contribution; they will be celebrating in a broader way for the region.

The torch will run within 100 kilometres of 92% of the population in Canada. That gives everyone an opportunity to come out and celebrate the flame. I am very excited to be in Hawkesbury tomorrow morning to welcome the flame to Ontario with my colleague Jean-Marc Lalonde and to be able to celebrate the torch throughout Ontario and with all Ontarians. As we lead into the Christmas season, this is a great way to celebrate with your community.

I just want to take this opportunity, as I'm the last one up this morning, to wish everyone a very happy holiday, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. Bonne année, joyeux Noël.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): There being no deferred votes, this House stands recessed until 1 p.m. this afternoon.

The House recessed from 1138 to 1300.

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): On behalf of the member from Toronto Centre, I would like to take this opportunity to welcome two guests who will be joining us today: Mr. Rick Bonnette, the mayor of Halton Hills, and his father, Louis Bonnette. Welcome to Queen's Park.

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

LEGAL AID

I've learned that legal aid offices in Bracebridge and Parry Sound will move into courthouse space and be open by appointment only on limited days. I know that the Bracebridge courthouse is currently bursting at the seams. Will it be able to physically accommodate the new demands? Will the reduced staff members proposed, and the limited hours, be able to satisfy the demand for legal services?

How will those people who are most vulnerable find out about the new 1-800 number? What happens if they have problems communicating? In fact, even if you do learn of the new 1-800 number, in many cases you will still need to meet someone face to face to obtain a legal aid certificate.

While I recognize that the intention is to control costs, I'm concerned that residents in our area will see reductions in services, just as we have seen in Burk's Falls, where cost savings are borne on the shoulders of residents through the closure of the Burk's Falls and District Health Centre.

I'm concerned that once again the people of Parry Sound—Muskoka will be negatively affected by the actions of the McGuinty government.

GOVERNMENT'S RECORD

Mr. Rosario Marchese: I just wanted to take this opportunity to express my disappointment with the government around two particular issues.

One of them has to do with the harmonization of the sales tax. It's not because I'm just so profoundly opposed to it, because I think flat taxes are bad, and not just because the government has given away close to $5 billion to the corporations and has eliminated $1.2 billion in progressive income taxes, which are based on ability to pay—not just because of that, but because they have simply eliminated the proper debate that we should have for hearings.

I recall in the 1990s that we used to have hearings that lasted a whole month, and we used to get beaten up by our supporters and our foes. Today, we have hearings that last a day, a half a day, two days, and it's an extension of what Mike Harris used to do in the old days. I don't know how you could live with yourself.

The other one is Bill 175, the labour mobility bill, which I have profoundly opposed, because I really believe it's an extension of NAFTA. I believe it's not just going to wear down our standards overall in terms of the way we hire people from outside the province, but it's a trade liberalization bill that is going to affect our ability as a province to manage our own affairs.

TAXATION

Mr. Rick Johnson: Starting as soon as January 1, you will see a reduction in the amount you pay in personal income tax. On the first $37,000 you earn, our government has cut the taxes you pay by 17%.

A relief package will accompany this cut, which will help seniors and low-income families in my riding the most. The other day, I met with a senior on a fixed income and explained how the relief package, coupled with these tax cuts, equals the taxes paid on more than $12,000 worth of newly taxed purchases. Their inner skepticism soon changed to a sigh of relief.

These are challenging times for people in Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, and indeed across the province. In order to heal our communities, heal our cities, heal our great province, we must forge a new path to future prosperity.

For our neighbours, our families, our children and their children, we are moving ahead with a plan that will create some 591,000 jobs in the coming years. This plan will offer a lifeline to those seeking work.

This plan will buttress existing businesses by stabilizing our marketplaces with thousands of new consumers while enabling them to find growth in a more competitive tax environment.

My friends, the economy that we once knew is not coming back. As hard as it has been, it will be that much harder if we bury our heads in our sleeves of denial and refuse to accept the new world economy.

My friends, this is supported by our local chamber of commerce because this plan is good for small businesses. I have heard positive feedback from poverty groups because this plan is aimed at supporting the most vulnerable in our society. For those reasons, this plan is indeed a comprehensive reform package—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you.

ABORIGINAL LAND DISPUTE

Mr. Toby Barrett: On February 28, 2006, the subdivision in Caledonia, Douglas Creek Estates, was occupied by force and, three and a half years later, the site remains occupied while Mr. McGuinty picks up the tab.

According to an FOI, I regret to report that the DCE bill gets higher. Given that they're paying the bills, people ask what other costs are being borne by taxpayers for Douglas Creek Estates. Why has government paid $213,000 for soil excavation and demolition? Why pay $50,000 for erosion control? Why shell out $2,000 for "no trespassing" signs that allow no one but occupiers on the site, not even OPP? Why $103,000 for fencing and $131,000 for an archaeological assessment? Property taxes over three years come in at $152,000.

We've finally gotten Dalton to admit that taxpayers are footing the heat and electricity bills for the lone remaining house on the site occupied by m