Province of Alberta The 27th Legislature Second Session Alberta Hansard Monday, March 2, 2009 Issue 7 The Honourable Kenneth R. Kowalski, Speaker

Legislative Assembly of Alberta The 27th Legislature Second Session Kowalski, Hon. Ken, Barrhead-Morinville-Westlock, Speaker Cao, Wayne C.N., Calgary-Fort, Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees Mitzel, Len, Cypress-Medicine Hat, Deputy Chair of Committees Ady, Hon. Cindy, Calgary-Shaw (PC), Minister of Tourism, Parks and Recreation Allred, Ken, St.

Albert (PC) Amery, Moe, Calgary-East (PC) Anderson, Rob, Airdrie-Chestermere (PC), Parliamentary Assistant, Solicitor General and Public Security Benito, Carl, Edmonton-Mill Woods (PC) Berger, Evan, Livingstone-Macleod (PC), Parliamentary Assistant, Sustainable Resource Development Bhardwaj, Naresh, Edmonton-Ellerslie (PC) Bhullar, Manmeet Singh, Calgary-Montrose (PC), Parliamentary Assistant, Advanced Education and Technology Blackett, Hon.

Lindsay, Calgary-North West (PC), Minister of Culture and Community Spirit Blakeman, Laurie, Edmonton-Centre (L), Deputy Leader of the Official Opposition Official Opposition House Leader Boutilier, Guy C., Fort McMurray-Wood Buffalo (PC) Brown, Dr. Neil, QC, Calgary-Nose Hill (PC) Calahasen, Pearl, Lesser Slave Lake (PC) Campbell, Robin, West Yellowhead (PC), Deputy Government Whip Chase, Harry B., Calgary-Varsity (L), Official Opposition Whip Dallas, Cal, Red Deer-South (PC) Danyluk, Hon. Ray, Lac La Biche-St.

Paul (PC), Minister of Municipal Affairs DeLong, Alana, Calgary-Bow (PC) Denis, Jonathan, Calgary-Egmont (PC) Doerksen, Arno, Strathmore-Brooks (PC) Drysdale, Wayne, Grande Prairie-Wapiti (PC) Elniski, Doug, Edmonton-Calder (PC) Evans, Hon. Iris, Sherwood Park (PC), Minister of Finance and Enterprise Fawcett, Kyle, Calgary-North Hill (PC) Forsyth, Heather, Calgary-Fish Creek (PC) Fritz, Hon. Yvonne, Calgary-Cross (PC), Minister of Housing and Urban Affairs Goudreau, Hon.

Hector G., Dunvegan-Central Peace (PC), Minister of Employment and Immigration Griffiths, Doug, Battle River-Wainwright (PC), Parliamentary Assistant, Agriculture and Rural Development Groeneveld, Hon. George, Highwood (PC), Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development Hancock, Hon. Dave, QC, Edmonton-Whitemud (PC), Minister of Education, Government House Leader Hayden, Hon. Jack, Drumheller-Stettler (PC), Minister of Infrastructure Hehr, Kent, Calgary-Buffalo (

L) Horne, Fred, Edmonton-Rutherford (PC) Horner, Hon. Doug, Spruce Grove-Sturgeon-St. Albert (PC), Minister of Advanced Education and Technology Jablonski, Hon. Mary Anne, Red Deer-North (PC), Minister of Seniors and Community Supports Jacobs, Broyce, Cardston-Taber-Warner (PC) Johnson, Jeff, Athabasca-Redwater (PC) Johnston, Art, Calgary-Hays (PC) Kang, Darshan S., Calgary-McCall (

L) Klimchuk, Hon. Heather, Edmonton-Glenora (PC), Minister of Service Alberta Knight, Hon. Mel, Grande Prairie-Smoky (PC), Minister of Energy Leskiw, Genia, Bonnyville-Cold Lake (PC) Liepert, Hon. Ron, Calgary-West (PC), Minister of Health and Wellness Lindsay, Hon. Fred, Stony Plain (PC), Solicitor General and Minister of Public Security Lukaszuk, Thomas A., Edmonton-Castle Downs (PC), Parliamentary Assistant, Municipal Affairs Lund, Ty, Rocky Mountain House (PC) MacDonald, Hugh, Edmonton-Gold Bar (

L) Marz, Richard, Olds-Didsbury-Three Hills (PC) Mason, Brian, Edmonton-Highlands-Norwood (NDP), Leader of the NDP Opposition McFarland, Barry, Little Bow (PC) McQueen, Diana, Drayton Valley-Calmar (PC), Parliamentary Assistant, Environment Morton, Hon. F.L., Foothills-Rocky View (PC), Minister of Sustainable Resource Development Notley, Rachel, Edmonton-Strathcona (NDP), Deputy Leader of the NDP Opposition, NDP Opposition House Leader Oberle, Frank, Peace River (PC), Government Whip Olson, Verlyn, QC, Wetaskiwin-Camrose (PC) Ouellette, Hon.

Luke, Innisfail-Sylvan Lake (PC), Minister of Transportation Pastoor, Bridget Brennan, Lethbridge-East (L), Deputy Official Opposition Whip Prins, Ray, Lacombe-Ponoka (PC) Quest, Dave, Strathcona (PC) Redford, Hon. Alison M., QC, Calgary-Elbow (PC), Minister of Justice and Attorney General Renner, Hon. Rob, Medicine Hat (PC), Minister of Environment, Deputy Government House Leader Rodney, Dave, Calgary-Lougheed (PC) Rogers, George, Leduc-Beaumont-Devon (PC) Sandhu, Peter, Edmonton-Manning (PC) Sarich, Janice, Edmonton-Decore (PC), Parliamentary Assistant, Education Sherman, Dr.

Raj, Edmonton-Meadowlark (PC), Parliamentary Assistant, Health and Wellness Snelgrove, Hon. Lloyd, Vermilion-Lloydminster (PC), President of the Treasury Board Stelmach, Hon. Ed, Fort Saskatchewan-Vegreville (PC), Premier, President of Executive Council Stevens, Hon. Ron, QC, Calgary-Glenmore (PC), Deputy Premier, Minister of International and Intergovernmental Relations Swann, Dr. David, Calgary-Mountain View (L), Leader of the Official Opposition Taft, Dr. Kevin, Edmonton-Riverview (

L) Tarchuk, Hon. Janis, Banff-Cochrane (PC), Minister of Children and Youth Services Taylor, Dave, Calgary-Currie (

L) VanderBurg, George, Whitecourt-Ste. Anne (PC) Vandermeer, Tony, Edmonton-Beverly-Clareview (PC) Weadick, Greg, Lethbridge-West (PC) Webber, Len, Calgary-Foothills (PC), Parliamentary Assistant, Energy Woo-Paw, Teresa, Calgary-Mackay (PC) Xiao, David H., Edmonton-McClung (PC), Parliamentary Assistant, Employment and Immigration Zwozdesky, Hon. Gene, Edmonton-Mill Creek (PC), Minister of Aboriginal Relations, Deputy Government House Leader Officers and Officials of the Legislative Assembly Clerk W.J. David McNeil Clerk Assistant/ Director of House Services Louise J.

Kamuchik Clerk of Journals/Table Research Micheline S. Gravel Senior Parliamentary Counsel Robert H. Reynolds, QC Senior Parliamentary Counsel Shannon Dean Sergeant-at-Arms Brian G. Hodgson Assistant Sergeant-at-Arms J. Ed Richard Assistant Sergeant-at-Arms William C. Semple Managing Editor of Alberta Hansard Liz Sim

March 2, 2009 Alberta Hansard 151 Legislative Assembly of Alberta Title: Monday, March 2, 2009 1:30 p.m. 1:30 p.m. Monday, March 2, 2009 [The Speaker in the chair] head: Prayers The Speaker: Good afternoon and welcome back. Let us pray. We give thanks for the bounty of our province, our land, our resources, and our people. We pledge ourselves to act as good stewards on behalf of all of the citizens of Alberta. Amen. Hon. members and guests in the galleries as well, would you now please join in in the language of your choice as I invite Mr. Paul Lorieau to lead us in the singing of our national anthem. Hon.

Members: O Canada, our home and native land! True patriot love in all thy sons command. With glowing hearts we see thee rise, The True North strong and free! From far and wide, O Canada, We stand on guard for thee. God keep our land glorious and free! O Canada, we stand on guard for thee. O Canada, we stand on guard for thee. The Speaker: Please be seated. head: Introduction of Visitors Mr. Blackett: Mr. Speaker, I rise to introduce to you and through you to the members of this Assembly Her Excellency Miriam Ziv, ambassador of Israel, and her husband, Mr. Ariel Kenet.

I was honoured today to host a special lunch in honour of Her Excel- lency’s first visit to Alberta. Al berta and Israel have a solid, two- way trading relationship that accounts for about $100 million annually, and we have a strong connection through our people as well. Over 15,000 Jewish people call Alberta home. Mr. Speaker, I’m proud to be part of a government and a Legisla- ture that recognizes Yom ha-Shoah, Holocaust Memorial Day. This Assembly passed this bill unanimously on Thursday, November 16, 2000, and this year Yom ha-Shoah will be recognized on April 21.

I’m proud to say that Alberta is a province with a vibrant multicul- tural heritage and that our Jewish community makes up an important part of our cultural mosaic. Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask that Her Excellency and Mr. Kenet rise and receive the traditional warm welcome of this House. head: Introduction of Guests The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Meadowlark. Dr. Sherman: Mr. Speaker, thank you. It’s my honour to introduce to you and through you constituents of mine and very bright young people from the Annunciation Catholic elementary school.

They’re accompanied by their t eacher, Miss Panaro, as well as Mrs. Anne Bagan. We had a good conversation downstairs. We have a future teacher in the crowd, a future veterinarian, a physician . . . Ms Calahasen: And a future politician? Dr. Sherman: No politicians but also a future member of the armed forces in the crowd. Mr. Speaker, I’d like for the young people there to stand up and receive the traditional warm welcome of the Assembly. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Highlands-Norwood. Mr. Mason: Thanks very much, Mr. Speaker.

I don’t know if my classroom, Eastwood school, is here, but I will introduce them and hope that they are. I would like to introduce 21 students from Eastwood elementary school – they’re in grades 5 and 6 – and their teacher, Mrs. Patti Lorentz. The helper is Mrs. Jeanne Randell. They’re here for the School at the Legislature this week, and I’d like the Legislature to give them a warm welcome. If they would please rise. I have a second introduction, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to introduce to you and through you Mr. Jacques Trepanier.

Jacques raises honeybees and grows cereal crops near Wembley, Alberta, and has been farming since 1974. Like many farmers in the Peace Country, Mr. Trepanier’s farm was hard hit by the drought in the summer of 2008. Jacques is seated in the public gallery, Mr. Speaker, and I would now ask that he rise and receive the traditional warm welcome of this Assembly. The Speaker: The hon. Minister of Employment and Immigration. Mr. Goudreau: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It’s a pleasure for me to rise today and introduce to you and through you to all members of the Legislature Alberta government employees from Alberta Employment and Immigration’s workplace health and safety staff. We have Sharon Chadwick, Lisa Chen, Ming Wu, Celia Chiang, Rose Ann McGinty, Michelle Mbazo, Cailin Mills, Karlene Johner, Vicky Qualie, Cody Sharpe, and Kathy Elniski. Yes, Kathy is a cousin to our Member for Edmonton-Calder. They’re all dedicated professionals who develop ways to keep Alberta’s workers healthy and safe on the job, and I’m honoured to have them here today.

I would ask them to receive the traditional warm welcome of this Assembly. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Buffalo. Mr. Hehr: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It’s my pleasure to introduce to you and through you to all members of this Assembly several very special individuals who are sitting in the public gallery today: Jamie Zuffa, my delightful and hard-working executive assistant from Calgary-Buffalo; Mizcha Fourie, a friend and supporter from Calgary; Madeline and Connor Rainey, friends and supporters from Edmonton.

I would ask my guests to please rise and accept the traditional warm welcome of the members of this Assembly. head: Members’ Statements The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-North Hill. Summer Temporary Employment Program Mr. Fawcett: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise in the Assembly today to speak about an excellent program that helps young Albertans gain exciting work experience and provides employers with energetic and bright staff who bring fresh ideas and new perspectives to the workplace.

The summer temporary employment program, STEP, saw an increase of $1.9 million this year for a total budget of $9.1 million. The program is bigger and better. More jobs will be available to students and unemployed Albertans. Over 2,100 STEP positions will be created this summer, Mr. Speaker, an increase of over 450 positions from last year. As someone who previously consulted with the nonprofit sector as well as was a STEP summer student at one point, I can attest to

Alberta Hansard March 2, 2009152 the immeasurable help that STEP students provide organizations and the benefits that they receive from holding these positions. It gives organizations the resources to hire talented staff to work in the summer programs that benefit Albertans. For example, STEP jobs have included positions like tourism ambassadors and museum interpreters. These and other positions can help young Albertans carve out a career path and help employers find full-time employees for the future.

The program offers a wage subsidy to encourage higher salaries for short-term temporary employment opportunities for students. I remind Alberta not-for-profit organizations that this week is the deadline for applying for STEP funding. All applica- tions must be postmarked by March 6 in order to be considered. I know that members of this Assembly have hired STEP students as constituency and research assistants, and I thank members for their continued support of this valuable program in giving work experience to young Albertans. Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. 1:40 Ukrainian Youth Association Verkhovyna Ukrainian Song and Dance Ensemble Mrs. Sarich: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to recognize two very impressive milestones for Edmonton’s Ukrainian community. Last month the Edmonton branch of the Ukrainian Youth Association celebrated its 60th anniversary and the Verkhovyna Ukrainian Song and Dance Ensemble celebrated its 50th anniversary with a banquet celebration that I along with the hon. minister of aboriginal affairs was fortunate enough to attend at the Ukrainian youth unity centre in Edmonton-Decore.

Both the Ukrainian Youth Association and Verkhovyna ensemble have been fixtures on Edmonton’s cultural landscape for decades. With the motto God and Ukraine, the youth association has spent the last six decades fusing Ukrainian, Christian, and patriotic values to nurture, educate, and unify local Ukrainian youth. The associa- tion offers a variety of programs to members, including organized sports, camps, discussion groups, and lectures, all aimed at preserv- ing the Ukrainian identity through the youth.

Verkhovyna song and dance ensemble is the youth association’s cultural arm, and its members range from those new to Canada to third- and fourth- generation Ukrainian Canadians. Mr. Speaker, the ensemble is comprised of three groups: the Verkhovyna Choir and the Dunai Dancers, which perform together and separately, and the Verkhovyna Ensemble School of Ukrainian Dance. Mr.

Speaker, both the Ukrainian Youth Association and the Verkhovyna Ukrainian Song and Dance Ensemble have done an admirable job preserving and promoting Ukrainian heritage in Edmonton while providing first-rate cultural entertainment for Edmontonians. I’d like to extend my congratulations to both groups for their many successful years in Edmonton and look forward to what these truly precious cultural treasures will do in the future. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Bonnyville-Cold Lake. Personal Directives Mrs. Leskiw: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

An estimated hundred thousand Albertans currently have personal directives. I would like to announce today that an awareness campaign is currently under way to encourage more Albertans to write and register a personal directive. A personal directive is a legal document that allows adults to write out their instructions and/or possibly name an individual to decide on personal matters if due to injury or illn ess they become unable to make a personal decision.

A personal directive can include instructions on matters such as health care or who will care for their minor children on a temporary basis if a parent suddenly loses their ability to care for their children. Recent changes to the Personal Directives Act also allow personal directives written outside of Alberta to be recognized as long as they meet the criteria in Alberta. Additional changes include allowing an individual, agent, or service provider to request a reassessment when mental capacity appears to have been regained.

We are encouraging Albertans to register their personal directives on a new personal directive registry. The personal directive registry is an online voluntary tool for Albertans to register their personal directives. The first of its kind in Canada, the registry is currently being developed to give access to health care providers so they will know if the individual has a personal directive. It also tells health care providers how to get in touch with the individual’s agency if they have named someone to speak on their behalf in case of medical emergencies.

Registering your personal directive is easy, free, and its your choice, your option. Please be assured that this information will be treated with respect and confidentiality. To assist Albertans preparing personal directives, information kits are available free of charge at any office of the public guardian. Please join me in encouraging all Albertans to write and register a personal directive to ensure that their wishes are followed when they can no longer make personal decisions. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Alberta Adolescent Recovery Centre Mr. Chase: Mr.

Speaker, having worked with, taught, and coached both children and adolescents for over three decades, I believe very strongly in the axiom that there are two sides to every story. With this in mind I gratefully accepted the invitation this past Friday to visit the Alberta Adolescent Recovery Centre located on Forge Road in southeast Calgary. I was cordially received and provided the opportunity to watch a rap session involving the students in discus- sion as part of their treatment.

Over lunch, after receiving an overview of the program by the director, counsellors, parents, and t eachers, I asked a variety of questions of concern ranging from program methodology to parent and participant responsibility and liability as well as government oversight and accountability for the program. There is no doubt in my mind that the program’s director, the parent counsellors, and the teachers with whom I met on Friday are dedicated to assisting adolescents and their parents in overcoming problems related to addictions and at-risk behaviours.

I also laud the efforts of the philanthropists whose donations of energy and funding backstop the program.

My continuing concerns have to do with what I see as a lack of government oversight and accountability for the well-being of the young individuals enrolled within the program; the type of program- ming, that severely restricts both the privacy and quality of access that parents have to their highly vulnerable children during lengthy months of treatment; the heavy reliance on at-risk young people, who themselves are at various stages of treatment within the program, to serve both as counsellors and keepers; the requirement placed on parents to turn their homes into barred cells for which they are forced to play both the roles of warden and prisoner for a program that is not an accredited residential treatment centre.

Desperate times for both vulnerable youth and their distraught parents do not justify desperate measures. Much stricter government regulation and accreditation is required to ensure that the AARC program achieves its laudable goals. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Montrose.

March 2, 2009 Alberta Hansard 153 Southeast Calgary Ring Road P3 Project Mr. Bhullar: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today was an important day for residents in my constituency. It’s almost been a year since I was elected as the Member for Calgary-Montrose, and there’s no better way to celebrate an anniversary than by bringing results to your constituents. I was pleased to see that after advocating the impor- tance of the southeast

section of the Calgary ring road, including holding a meeting with east Calgary aldermen and the Minister of Transportation, the minister this morning announced that the Stoney Trail southeast

section will be the next portion of the ring road to be completed. This announcement was also attended by the mayor of Calgary, Mr. Bronconnier, and the hon. Member for Calgary-Fort. Mr. Speaker, my constituents in Applewood and Penbrooke will be pleased to know that there’ll be an interchange on 17th Avenue S.E., also known as the wonderful International Avenue. The total length is 25 kilometres of six-lane divided highway, with 29 total bridge structures. This is a very important project for all Calgarians. I’ve heard from people in communities like Applewood and Penbrooke how important the southeast

section of the ring road is. These are people that are excited to spend less time in what is so often a very long commute in Calgary. After advocating for the construction of this

section of the ring road for the past year, I look forward to seeing the groundbreaking for this project and eventually the benefits the completed ring road will bring to my constituents and other Calgarians. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Grande Prairie-Wapiti. Weyerhaeuser Grande Prairie Pulp Mill Safety Award Mr. Drysdale: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m pleased to announce that Weyerhaeuser’s Grande Prairie pulp mill was recognized as the safest pulp mill in Canada in its size category in 2008.

Pulp & Paper Canada magazine, which has been recognizing exemplary safety efforts since 1926, has awarded Weyerhaeuser’s Grande Prairie pulp mill this honour. Mr. Speaker, in 2008 the pulp m ill had a workforce of 315 people, and during that time the mill did not have a single recordable injury among its staff. Essentially, this is roughly 675,000 hours worked without a recordable injury. In fact, the employees and contractors at the mill are now approaching 1.5 million hours worked without a recordable injury.

In this way Weyerhaeuser’s Grande Prairie pulp mill is a role model to all companies, demon- strating the importance of a safe work environment. As we all know, on-the-job dangers can have lasting conse- quences. In fact, the Grande Prairie pulp mill was previously a recipient of this award in both 2000 and 2004. I commend Weyerhaeuser’s Grande Prairie pulp mill for its remarkable achieve- ments and its leadership in ensuring safe work. Thank you. 1:50 head: Oral Question Period The Speaker: First Official Opposition main question. The hon. Leader of the Official Opposition. Provincial Economic Strategy Dr.

Swann: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Last week’s third-quarter update painted a grim picture for Alberta. Without saving, without limiting spending increases, and without planning for the inevitable bust, government has driven this province right into another deficit. A budget is absolutely necessary, but it is only the first step out of the mess that this government has created. To the Premier: will the Premier tell Albertans what the long-term plan is to remove Alberta from these devastating booms and busts? Mr. Stelmach: Mr.

Speaker, the plan is, of course, over the next number of years to be very careful and pragmatic in our spending. Secondly, over the next year or two we will have to dip into the emergency savings fund that we have set aside especially for situations like this. Thirdly, we are going to keep investing in people, meaning education and health, and fourthly, quite frankly, is to ensure that we maintain the momentum and have all of the infrastructure in place so that as we come out of this, we’re not left behind again. The Speaker: The hon. leader. Dr. Swann: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Again to the Premier: how has this government changed its budgeting procedures now to avoid the consequences of budgeting based on volatile commodity prices? Mr. Stelmach: Mr. Speaker, the changes were made a few years ago, when we changed quite dramatically the accounting practices, allowing us to set aside money in what we call the sustainability fund and also in the capital fund. The Leader of the Official Opposition said, “Yes, we have to plan for vola tile revenues,” and that’s what we did. So we’ve got $7.7 billion in sustainability, and that’s helping to cushion the dramatic drop in oil and gas revenues.

We also set aside $6 billion in cash for infrastructure. I’m not aware of any jurisdiction in North America that actually has cash in hand, very liquid, that they can rely on over the next couple of years to offset the dramatic revenue loss. The Speaker: The hon. leader. Dr. Swann: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Well, as the Premier is reprofiling, quote, rescheduling millions of dollars of capital projects, what guarantee is there that there’ll be money for these projects available next year or the year after that, when we’ve spent everything that’s come out of the ground? Mr. Stelmach: Mr.

Speaker, our capital plan is a five-year capital plan. The first three years are committed. The capital plan is $22.2 billion. That is far greater, no matter how you measure it, per capita, two to three times that of any other jurisdiction in Canada. We’re well on our way to ensuring that the infrastructure is in place. The other is that we’ll be very pragmatic. We want to ensure that we not only provide the schools and the hospitals that are necessary but also ensure that our water and sewer systems are constantly maintained, so we keep upgrading them.

Those will be very wise investments given the fact that we will have some people that may have some job losses, and this will put them back to work. The Speaker: Second Official Opposition main question. The hon. Leader of the Official Opposition. Oil Royalty Agreement Dr. Swann: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Corporate financial filings show that this government recently gave multinational oil sands companies a huge cut in royalties. Payments formerly would have gone to the public purse.

For Syncrude alone this sweetheart deal will be worth over $18 billion, greater than the value of our heritage fund, our children’s legacy. Eighteen billion dollars to industry

Alberta Hansard March 2, 2009154 while this government can’t even fund cancer care appropriately: does the Premier think this is a good deal for Albertans? Mr. Stelmach: Mr. Speaker, the hon. leader is talking about something that appeared in the paper the other day that forecast 40 years into the future. I don’t know what price structure they used, whether they put oil at $150 a barrel or a hundred dollars a barrel. But it’s funny, you know, how they can forecast 40 years in the future, and only a few months ago nobody forecast this whole world- wide economic turndown.

Now all of a sudden they’re making these predictions 40 years down the road. Dr. Swann: Mr. Speaker, to the Premie r: whose interests was this government acting on when it decided to reduce the royalties for this company? Eighteen billion dollars went back to the corporate profits. Mr. Stelmach: Mr. Speaker, I’ll have the Minister of Energy answer the part of the agreement that was reached back in 1997. The Speaker: The hon. minister. Mr. Knight: Well, thank you very much. Mr. Speaker, the truth of the matter is that there was no reduction in royalties.

In 1997 a Crown agreement was reached with two of the major players, the initiators of this great business in the province of Alberta, and part of that Crown agreement was an option for them to choose to pay royalties a decade down the road either on bitumen or on synthetic oil. They have made a choice of an option to pay on bitumen royalty. It will at the end of the day be a very, very g ood pi ece of business for all Albertans. The Speaker: The hon. leader. Dr. Swann: Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the same minister: whose interests were you choosing that decision on? Whose interests? Mr. Knight: Well, Mr.

Speaker, it may be in the hon. gentleman’s interest to settle down a little bit. You might have to call in some emergency staff. [interjections] Ms Blakeman: Mr. Speaker, a point of order. Mr. Knight: I thought they were calling. The interest with respect to the agreements that were made is in the interest of and to the benefit of all Albertans. Mr. Speaker, there are a lot of situations that will arise where bitumen pricing and pricing of synthetic oil, the differentials, may close and, in fact, could be a very good deal for Albertans.

The Speaker: Hon. members, we will deal with the point of order at the end of the Routine. Third Official Opposition main question. The hon. Member for Edmonton-Riverview. Dr. Taft: Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. This Premier and this government agreed to a royalty deal that sees an expected $18 billion transferred from the public to Syncrude. The corporate filings of Syncrude shareholders spell this out in detail, and I’m sure the minister is aware of that. This government, which is supposed to be managing the resource in the best interest of Albertans, barely gave a hint of it.

To the Premier: why does this government conceal information from its citizens instead of providing the full, plain, and true disclosure required of corporations and recommended by the Auditor General? Mr. Stelmach: Mr. Speaker, nothing is concealed and especially not the growth that we’ve seen in this province since 1997. It has given us infrastructure. It has given us good health and education programs. It has given us wealth not only in this province but wealth that’s shared right across the country of Canada. The Speaker: The hon. member. Dr. Taft: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The $18 billion figure actually applies only to Syncrude. This government must know how much more forecast revenue they also signed over to Suncor. My question is to the Minister of Energy. Did the minister or his department do an analysis of how much these royalty deals were likely to cost Albertans, and if he did, will he confirm that about $18 billion more in public wealth was transferred to Suncor through this deal? Mr. Knight: Mr.

Speaker, what I do know is that we have just spent a considerable amount of time and effort to renegotiate the Crown agreements that Syncrude and Suncor have with the province of Alberta, with the people of Alberta. I’ll tell you this as a fact, not a number that came from a newspaper but a fact: Syncrude will pay the people of Alberta an additional $975 million in royalties due to that agreement. The Speaker: The hon. member. Dr. Taft: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The minister maybe should go back to math school or something because he transferred $18 billion to Syncrude to get $975 million back.

Does the minister actually think that was a good deal for the people of Alberta? Mr. Knight: Mr. Speaker, what I do know is that both of the Crown agreements that have been reached by the government of Alberta with respect to the two major ini tial players in the oil sands have opened up tremendous o pportunities for all Albertans and all Canadians, as the Premier has stated. They are very good, solid agreements that will net benefits to Albertans for generations to come, decades to come. The Speaker: The hon. leader of the third party in the House. Provincial Economic Strategy (continued) Mr.

Mason: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. This morning Statistics Canada announced the sharpest quarterly decline in Canada’s gross domestic product in 18 years, and still this govern- ment refuses to create an economic stimulus package. Alberta is not an island, but this government doesn’t get it. Ordinary Albertans are losing their jobs and declaring bankruptcy while this government stands alone in the world in refusing to launch a stimulus package. My question is to the Premier.

Why is this Tory government failing Albertans at risk of losing their jobs or facing bankruptcy by refusing to stimulate Alberta’s economy? 2:00 Mr. Stelmach: Mr. Speaker, the policies of the government over the last couple of years have really stimulated growth in the economy. In fact, we’ve seen unpr ecedented growth. We’ve seen – what? –

March 2, 2009 Alberta Hansard 155 600,000 new Albertans move to this province. We’ve seen invest- ments in infrastructure, education, and health, and we’ll continue to do that. We are, as I said before, the only jurisdiction in all of Canada, if not North America, to have cash in hand to work through this economic global downturn, that was totally unpredicted by even the best economists. We’re in the best position to weather this storm. Mr. Mason: That was yesterday, Mr. Speaker. This Premier is not preparing the province for tomorrow.

The federal infrastructure program will match one-third of what provinces and municipalities chip in to stimulate their economies, up to $2.2 billion for Alberta. Many of Alberta’s municipalities have already committed substantial funding to new infrastructure and cannot afford more. Our proposal is that this government should pay the municipalities’ third as well as its own third to leverage the federal cash and get Albertans working. My question is to the Premier. Will you adopt our proposal and commit the municipal portion of funds for the federal infrastructure program so that Alberta can . . .

The Speaker: The hon. the Premier. Mr. Mason: I’m not finished yet, Mr. Speaker. The Speaker: Oh, no, no. You are finished. I have called on the hon. the Premier. Mr. Stelmach: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, for being so kind. I know that there is no provincial jurisdiction in Canada that supports municipalities as much as this government. There is $1.4 billion of new money every year going to municipalities to help them with infrastructure. For some of the smaller municipalities it helps with their operation. It is unprecedented in Canada.

We’ll continue to keep our solid commitment and good working relationship with all municipalities. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Mason: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. The only positive contributor to total GDP last quarter was public-sector investment, according to Statistics Canada, yet this government refuses to listen to good ideas and refuses to invest money in ways that will actually create real jobs for everyday Albertans. Municipalities cannot afford more spending on infrastructure, and this government will not step up to the plate. Why, Mr.

Premier, will you not take advantage of this opportunity for federal funding and commit to paying the municipal share to keep Albertans working? Mr. Stelmach: Mr. Speaker, just having met with the president of AUMA and having had a long discussion with the president of AAMD and C, both associations are very satisfied with the plan we have in place.

You know, the other part of the plan that we have worked out with municipalities is that they are simply delighted because they can stand anywhere in Canada and say that Alberta is the only province that works closely with municipalities and allows municipalities to actually prioritize their projects, the only jurisdic- tion in Canada to do that. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Bow, followed by the hon. Member for Edmonton-Centre. Grizzly Bear Management Ms DeLong: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

We’ve heard that communities in Alberta are adopting BearSmart practices, and the Foothills Research Institute is finishing a DNA population study that will give us an idea of grizzly bear populations from south of Grande Prairie to the Montana border. My question is to the Minister of Sustainable Resource Development. What is the government doing on the landscape to ensure that grizzly bears remain part of Alberta’s wildlife? The Speaker: The hon. minister. Dr. Morton: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Both the BearSmart program and the DNA population study are government of Alberta programs, and they are focused on keeping grizzlies on the landscape. The BearSmart program reduces human/bear encounters to the benefit of both parties. The core grizzly bear habitat is the focus of the DNA study, which will work into the regional plans under the land-use framework. There are many other programs associated with our grizzly efforts. I can assure you that this government does not have a grin-and-bear-it attitude towards grizzlies. We are bearing down and making healthy grizzly populations a high priority.

The Speaker: The hon. member. Ms DeLong: Thank you. My first supplemental is to the same minister. My constituents have insisted that there are plenty of grizzly bears in the foothills. What can the minister tell me about the population numbers and the influence that they have on manag- ing access in grizzly habitat? Dr. Morton: Mr. Speaker, there are two different stories about grizzly bears out there at the moment. The Foothills Research Institute is doing the DNA sampling study based on a scientific technique. That is projecting fewer bears than we expected: less than a thousand.

There is another study out there, done by the Willmore Wilderness Foundation, that involves both a film and also a very extensive database, that reports a higher frequency of sightings around the province in the last year. We’ve listened to both of these groups. We’re putting them together, and I’m optimistic that when those databases are integrated, we’ll get a satisfactory result. The Speaker: The hon. member. Ms DeLong: Thank you. To the same minister.

I’ve heard reports that the grizzly bear counts are only being done in areas that are close to settled areas and access points, where it would be easier or more convenient to set up samplin g points, yet I’m also told that most sightings, especially large multiple sightings, are in the backcountry. Can the minister explain how the counts are being done? The Speaker: The hon. minister. Dr. Morton: Thank you. The reports that the hon. member has heard are not accurate.

The individuals conducting the DNA study are professional scientists, and they’re using the very same tech- niques that have been used by wildlife habitat scientists in Yellow- stone park and other places in North America. This focuses on a random grid sample, and then within those grids the catchment areas are placed where grizzlies are most likely. At the end of 2009 the

Alberta Hansard March 2, 2009156 grizzly bear population survey will be done. Mr. Speaker, those are the bare facts, and I’m sticking with them. Thank you. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Centre, followed by the hon. Member for Bonnyville-Cold Lake. Carbon Emissions Reduction Ms Blakeman: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In 2007 the government created a carbon tax of $15 per tonne for all major industrial emitters of greenhouse gas in Alberta.

The Auditor General in the report for Environment says that the ministry’s statements do not verify the completeness of the reporting toward meeting emission intensity targets. My questions are to the Minister of Environment. Given that Budget ’08 estimated $155 million from the climate change fund yet the annual report only has $40 m illion, can the minister explain this $115 million difference? Thank you. The Speaker: The hon. minister. Mr. Renner: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Well, there are, actually, two reasons for it.

First of all, the $155 million that the member refers to is for 18 months, and we’ve to date reported six months. So there was $40 million in the first six months of the program. After the 12-month period, which has now just ended, we anticipate that it’ll be around a hundred million. The other reason, frankly, Mr. Speaker, is that it was at best an estimate. There’s no way of knowing exactly what the savings may have been, that industry may not have had to come into compliance. We also didn’t know what uptake there would be on the opportuni- ties for emissions credits to be taken up.

The Speaker: The hon. member. Ms Blakeman: Thank you. The $155 million figure appears on page 30 of your budget documents. To the same minister: given that the Auditor General states that the ministry cannot verify amounts owing b ecause it doesn’t have the systems in place to check who is meeting the targets and who isn’t and then collect the money that’s owed, can the minister not agree that that’s the real reason for the difference? You don’t have the systems in place to know how much money is out there. Mr. Renner: Mr. Speaker, clearly, that is not the case.

This is an instance where it was necessary for us to as quickly as possible come forward with something that we knew was the right thing to do. There is and was a lot of work needed to be done to the compliance mechanisms. We have that work in place. Frankly, we felt that it was more appropriate that we get the legislation up and running and develop the details after the fact rather than wait for two or three years and do nothing in the meantime. Ms Blakeman: To the same minister.

Budget 2008 estimates for the next three years total $328 million in the climate change f und for new initiatives in emissions reduction. Can the minister tell us if this is still accurate, or will the new budget see a massive decrease in the Budget 2008 numbers? 2:10 Mr. Renner: Mr. Speaker, the numbers that are in the budget are reflective of projections for growth, that may or may not be seen as we all know that there have been a number of projects that have been put on hold.

It also is dependent upon, as I mentioned earlier, the degree to which companies are able to acquire offsets, which would reduce the amount that they pay. It would also depend upon the actual results that they record at the end of the year. So I can’t predict whether or not the numbers that are in the budget will be achieved. It’s a three-year budget, and as everyone knows, forecast- ing any more than three months these days is extremely difficult. I can assure this member and I can assure all Albertans that the numbers that are reported are accurate, are audited, and are account- able. The Speaker: The hon.

Member for Bonnyville-Cold Lake, followed by the hon. Member for Calgary-Varsity. Support for Communities in the Oil Sands Mrs. Leskiw: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My constituents see Bonnyville-Cold Lake as a major hub for industry in Alberta. Communities like Cold Lake are dependent on this industry. As a result, this community faces challenges to its growth and sustainabil- ity. My question is to the President of the Treasury Board. This government is providing additional support to oil sands communities like Fort McMurray.

Will communities, like Cold Lake, who are experiencing the same challenges receive this additional support as well? Mr. Snelgrove: Mr. Speaker, it’s a good point. I think many Albertans don’t realize how massive the oil sands – better described by our Member for Athabasca-Redwater as the job sands – are under Alberta, approximately 20 per cent. So the communities of Cold Lake, Bonnyville, St. Paul, and Lac La Biche as well as the Peace Country are all affected and will be affected over time by the tremendous opportunities this oil energy has.

The oil sands secretariat has met with and will continue to meet with the different representatives from those communities. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mrs. Leskiw: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My first supplementary is to the same minister. How will this government improve the quality of life for communities like Cold Lake that are directly impacted by the oil sands? Mr. Snelgrove: Mr.

Speaker, in many ways the report on responsi- ble development of the oil sands is a way to attack most of the issues that face major development around any community, whether it be the future development in our Industrial Heartland or the oil sands development around those communities, by addressing it in a government-wide manner, where all the departments are brought together, where we look at the issues raised by that community, and we use whatever means are necessary to include all the relative ministries to handle the issues. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mrs. Leskiw: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My second supplementary is to the Minister of Aboriginal Relations. The First Nations and Métis comprise a large portion of the population of Bonnyville-Cold Lake. How will this government increase the participation of the aboriginal communities in the development of the oil sands? Mr. Zwozdesky: Mr. Speaker, for one thing, aboriginal input to date and well into the future figures very prominently in our recently

March 2, 2009 Alberta Hansard 157 released energy strategy, our recently released land-use framework, and, of course, the mostly recently released Alberta oil sands plan, which is called Responsible Actions. To date we know that approximately 1,500 aboriginals are already employed in the oil sands development. That’s about a 60 per cent increase since 1998, and I think it’s going to go even higher. That figure, by the way, does not include construction-related jobs. The final point, Mr.

Speaker, is that more aboriginals will be employed as local industries’ initiatives kick into place to hire local aboriginal grads and as our First Nations economic partnership initiative continues. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Varsity, followed by the hon. Member for Whitecourt-Ste. Anne. Alberta Adolescent Recovery Centre Mr. Chase: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The strengths of the Alberta Adolescent Recovery Centre are its dedicated teachers, its generous philanthropists, and its desperate, dedicated parents, who are willing to sacrifice, surrender so much to recover their lost children.

The weakness of the program is that the Alberta government has allowed an underregulated facility to operate as though it were an accredited residential treatment centre. My questions are to the minister of health. Is it acceptable to you that each night throughout Calgary at- risk adolescents are locked in bedrooms with fixed bars on the windows, in direct violation of fire safety codes? Mr. Liepert: Mr. Speaker, I’m not going to acknowledge the comments that were made in the

preamble. I will say that the member took my suggestion of a couple of weeks ago and actually went and visited the program and, if I understood his member’s statement correctly, acknowledged the great work of the parents, the great work of the teachers, and the outstanding program. Unlike the opposition, we don’t believe that it’s necessary to have civil servants hovering over all of the programs in Alberta. Mr. Chase: I think you should be concerned about firemen hovering over these facilities with barred windows in direct violation of safety codes. How do you justify the fact, Mr.

Minister, that the keepers of the bedroom cell keys for the at-risk newcomers are themselves at-risk old-comers who have been in the program only a few months longer than those over whom they wield authority and for whom they assume the liability that this government has left? Mr. Liepert: Mr. Speaker, I think I challenged the member a couple of weeks ago as well that if he had some issues that he thought were criminal in nature, then he should report them to the police. If he has some issues that he thinks violate fire codes, then report it to the fire chief.

He has the responsibility instead of just standing here making a bunch of unfounded allegations. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Chase: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. When I spoke to the deputy fire chief, he expressed concerns, and I’ll be meeting with police officials this Friday. Why hasn’t the government provided AADAC the funding to build, operate, and regulate adolescent residential treatment centres instead of foisting its responsibilities onto the shoulders of untrained parents and at-risk adolescents? Who’s in charge of Alberta children’s welfare? Mr. Liepert: Well, again, Mr.

Speaker, in the last budget we allocated some hundred million dollars to AADAC, so for this member to stand here and make those kind of comments is just incorrect. Again, unlike the opposition we don’t believe that government does everything. We believe there is a role for the volunteer and nonprofit sectors to get involved. If this member has an issue with it, then let him say so, but all he does is stand here and make unfounded allegations, Mr. Speaker. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Whitecourt-Ste. Anne, followed by the hon. Member for Calgary-Currie. Single Wide-base Truck Tires Mr.

VanderBurg: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A year ago my Transportation Advisory Committee in Whitecourt-Ste. Anne made me aware of new technology that can assist some sectors of the trucking industry to save fuel, up to 15 per cent. I thank the Minister of Transportation for his quick response to Alberta’s trucking industry by allowing super single tires with a slight weight reduction as a use of condition. My questions are all to the Minister of Transportation. The province of Ontario has now announced that they will allow full parity between the new generation wide tires and a set of dual tires.

This means now that Ontario and Quebec are the only provinces to allow fuel efficient single . . . The Speaker: Thank you. The hon. minister. [interjection] Hon. minister, you have the floor. Mr. Ouellette: I wanted to hear the question because I didn’t want to make the answer wrong, Mr. Speaker. The Speaker: You have 35 seconds. Mr. Ouellette: Anyway, Mr. Speaker, I have to tell the hon. member that it isn’t quite that simple. Yes, we have been running some pilot projects with super single new-generation tires, but I have to also go by what the technical people in the department say.

The technical people are telling me that if you overload or heavily load the superwide tires, we don’t have the surf aces strong e nough to handle it, and we create more damage. But for the hon. member I will recheck with our technical guys to see if there are some new- technology tires out there that maybe we could load a little heavier. Mr. VanderBurg: Mr. Speaker, I’ll make it shorter this time. Due to the recent change in legislation, Minister, are you concerned that there will be an advantage to national carriers operating in Ontario versus operating in Alberta? Mr.

Ouellette: That’s a very good question, Mr. Speaker. Let me tell you, most of our truckers here and especially any of our long- haul truckers, which is about 65 per cent of our trucks in Alberta, are interprovincially licensed. Saskatchewan and Manitoba have the exact same weight ratio as we do, so you couldn’t get across from Ontario or Quebec into Alberta and cross those provinces. I think we continually try to do everything we can to make economic benefits for our truckers in Alberta. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Currie, followed by the hon. Member for Edmonton-Strathcona.

Alberta Hansard March 2, 2009158 Safety of Secondary Suites Mr. Taylor: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. While safe secondary suites are a low-cost option that could quickly increase the stock of affordable housing, right now many people in Alberta are living in unsafe, unhealthy secondary suites because that’s all they can find. While a substandard roof over your head is better than no roof at all, a suite that is unfit or unsafe can put the tenants’ lives in jeopardy. To the Minister of Municipal Affairs. A violation of the Alberta fire code can cost a landlord $15,000 in fines or six months in jail.

Given that a fire code violation such as a locked or barred window can lead to the death of a tenant who cannot get out of his or her suite in time, will the minister commit to a review of the penalties? 2:20 The Speaker: The hon. minister. Mr. Danyluk: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Well, first of all, I want to say that Alberta has strong building and fire codes to help residents in secondary suites. I also want to reiterate that municipalities choose whether to permit sec ondary suites. The standards for new secondary suites have been in force since December of 2008.

At this time the penalties that are in pl ace for safety codes I believe are adequate. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Taylor: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the minister of health this time: given that housing regulations fall under the Public Health Act and the penalty a landlord faces for violating that act is only $2,000, will this minister commit to a review of

section 73 of the act? Mr. Liepert: There’s none planned at this stage, Mr. Speaker. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Taylor: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the Minister of Justice: in cases where tenants die in fires as the result of possible negligence by the landlord, is it possible to lay criminal charges against the landlord, and if so, why is this apparently never done? If not, what can she do about it? The Speaker: The hon. minister. Ms Redford: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’ll take that question under advisement. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Strathcona, followed by the hon.

Member for Calgary-Montrose. Impact of Oil Sands Development on Water Resources Ms Notley: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. By treating our watershed like a bottomless well, this government is jeopardizing the environmental future of Alberta, British Columbia, Saskatchewan, and both territories, and this government doesn’t care. Canada’s House of Commons has noticed, and their environment committee wants to know why this government is letting their friends in big oil soak up Alberta’s water resources unchecked. My question is to the Minister of Environment.

Why won’t you protect the resource that Alberta’s future depends on most? Mr. Renner: Well, Mr. Speaker, I would suggest to the hon. member that that’s exactly what we do. She talks about the water that flows through Alberta that ends up in the Northwest Territories, Saskatchewan, or Manitoba. We have in place agreements with our eastern neighbours on the South Saskatchewan and North Saskatche- wan, and we are just about to enter into a trilateral discussion with British Columbia, Alberta, and the Northwest Territories to deal with the northern watershed basin. The Speaker: The hon. member.

Ms Notley: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Well, it’s the job of this provincial government to oversee our environment, and the feds are getting involved because the job is not getting done. The tar ponds already span over 130 square kilometers and are filled with toxic chemicals that industry doesn’t know what to do with. It’s estimated that 170,000 litres of toxic water from the tar ponds leach back into Alberta rivers each day, yet the government is doing nothing about them. To the Minister of Environment: why has this government continued to turn a blind eye to the black eye it’s created in the tar sands? Mr.

Renner: Mr. Speaker, nothing could be further from the truth, and this member knows that. She’s taken the opportunity to make a political statement, ignoring the facts. The facts speak for themselves. I welcome other authorities to review our legislation and review our regulatory regime because I’m sure that the House of Commons committee will find that Alberta is doing everything that is expected of us and then some. The Speaker: The hon. member. Ms Notley: Thank you. Well, the minister doesn’t seem to under- stand the very basic need of every Albertan for a fresh water supply.

The government has failed to implement the changes that would actually make CEMA effective, the water for life strategy has no teeth, and your directives to clean up the tar ponds won’t have any effect for years to come. In short, lots of talk; no action. To the minister: why should everyday Albertans be denied access to clean water tomorrow because of your ministry’s negligence today? Mr. Renner: Mr. Speaker, this member obviously has a different crystal ball than anyone else that is involved in dealing with these important issues. The fact of the matter is that we have rigid legislation in place.

We have accepted that there can be more technology changes. On an ongoing basis we’re committed to continually increase the degree of protection that we have in place. I can assure this member and I can assure all Albertans that there is no risk for the future of the water in this province. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Montrose, followed by the hon. Member for Calgary-Buffalo. Southeast Calgary Ring Road P3 Project Mr. Bhullar: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

As I mentioned earlier in my member’s statement, the Minister of Transportation announced this morning that the Stoney Trail southeast portion of the ring road is the next

section of the Calgary ring road that will be completed, which is something I’ve been l ong advocating for. While my constituents are happy with this news, they’re also eager to see results. My first question is to the Minister of Transportation. What is the timeline, such as the start date and estimated completion date, of the construction of the Stoney Trail southeast section? Mr. Ouellette: Well, Mr. Speaker, I’m very pleased to tell the hon. member that our start date is planned right now for 2010, and we

March 2, 2009 Alberta Hansard 159 will have traffic driving on it by the fall of 2013. This is great news for Calgarians. The project will make a full free-flow six-lane freeway, and it will significantly improve traffic flows on the east side of Calgary. Mr. Bhullar: Great it is, Mr. Speaker. Great it is. My second question to the same minister: how is this project being paid for and what is the department doing to ensure that this project is cost-effective? Mr. Ouellette: Mr.

Speaker, as you know, the last two to three, I guess, ring road legs that we’ve done in Edmonton and Calgary were done as a P3, and we saved hundreds of millions of dollars for taxpayers of Alberta. We plan on doing this one under a P3. Once that road opens, that will make our c ontractor responsible for the maintenance for 30 years. One thing for sure we always will do: a comparative bid. We will always make sure that when that compar- ative bid is open, we’re getting the best deal possible for Alberta taxpayers. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Bhullar: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. With the completion of this

section the ring road will be 75 per cent complete. When will the last quarter be completed? Mr. Ouellette: Mr. Speaker, can you believe that? We just announced such a great project of a six-lane freeway with 29 separate bridges, two flyovers, and – wouldn’t you know it? – I guess it isn’t enough. But let me tell you that our Premier, who is a great Premier, has announced that he wanted all the ring roads done by 2015, and I really like my job, so I’m going to do everything I possibly can to make sure that they’re all done by 2015.

The Speaker: I’m sure that with these hundreds of millions of dollars we’re saving, you can help some of your other colleagues out. The hon. Member for Calgary-Buffalo, followed by the hon. Member for Calgary-Mackay. Prosecutions under the Election Act Mr. Hehr: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The integrity of the democratic process should be a priority concern for all governments; however, it seems that for this government ensuring the integrity of the electoral process by prosecuting violations is not really a concern.

To the Minister of Justice: can the minister provide any details as to why in the case of 19 election violations recommended for prosecu- tion by the Chief Electoral Officer, it was concluded that a special prosecutor not be appointed? The Speaker: The hon. minister. Ms Redford: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The integrity of the democratic system in Alberta is of paramount concern to this government.

It’s of particular personal interest to me both as a minister and as an individual that has spent a lot of time looking at democratic systems around the world, and I believe that we have a very strong system in Alberta that is completely transparent. We have a system in place where we have independent prosecutors who make decisions about whether to prosecute cases.

I would actually suggest and I would ask the hon. member opposite to think about whether or not it would even be appropriate for me as Minister of Justice to speak to the specifics of cases since the whole point of this system is that there are prosecutors in the Department of Justice who are independent, make the decisions independent from what the minister may or may not think. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Hehr: Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker.

To the same minister: given that the minister has the final say on whether cases should be investigated and prosecuted, as you are the head of the department – de facto, you know, that’s like the fox being in charge of the hen house – should you not in these cases get an independent prosecutor? 2:30 The Speaker: The hon. minister. Ms Redford: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I have said in this House time and time again, we have a system that works in this province.

We have independent prosecutors with integrity, and I think that it is very important for colleagues in this House who are lawyers, before they ask questions such as this, to think and understand how the Department of Justice actually works and is managed. Mr. Hehr: Well, since I am a lawyer and maybe a slow learning one, I’ll try and figure this out sooner or later. Let’s take a look at this. The Department of Justice receives 19 election violations from the Chief Electoral Officer that say: please prosecute. Tell me where I’m wrong with thinking: hey, maybe let’s get an independent prosecutor.

Would this not be more reasonable? The Speaker: The hon. minister. Ms Redford: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Our prosecutors are independent, and they made the decision not to prosecute. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Mackay, followed by the hon. Member for Edmonton-Gold Bar. English As a Second Language Programs Ms Woo-Paw: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In the fall of 2006 the Ministry of Education contracted Howard Research & Management Consulting Inc. to conduct a review of English as a second language K to 12 program implementation in Alberta.

Among the key findings were that some 64 different instruments were used across the province to assess ESL students, and only 21 per cent of the schools used a comprehensive curriculum plan for these students. Some 64 per cent of the schools relied on subject teachers who lacked specialized ESL training to teach ESL in the classes. My question is to the Minister of Education. How has the ministry responded to the identified issues in the review with respect to identification and assessment? The Speaker: The hon. minister. Mr. Hancock: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is a very important topic.

We are seeing an increasing number of ESL students in our schools, a better identification of those students and those students’ needs. Of course, it’s a diverse population of students, so it’s much more difficult to develop resources that would be in the nature of a mandatory curriculum. However, there is an ESL Guide to Imple- mentation, kindergarten to grade 9, which provides

definitions and descriptions of students and information on intake procedures. We

Alberta Hansard March 2, 2009160 produced a list of assessment resources for English as a second language, and in terms of curriculum development we’re progressing on that as well. Ms Woo-Paw: My first supplemental is to the same minister. Would the minister consider introducing or reintroducing reporting mechanisms to ensure that ESL funding is used for ESL instruction? The Speaker: The hon. minister. Mr. Hancock: Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker.

As is the case in a number of our funding mechanisms, what we provide is a global budget to school boards, and the calculation of that budget takes into account certain factors. In this case the number of ESL students provides a factor for extra funding for school boards. What we don’t do is tell the school boards how to apply those funds, and we would be reluctant to do that unless it could be shown that they were not achieving the outcomes.

We are developing a piece of the account- ability pillar which will tell us whether we’re achieving those outcomes, and if we find that’s not successful, we will consider changing the funding to fix it. Ms Woo-Paw: My last supplemental to the same minister: would the ministry consider auditing schools and school boards for the allocation of ESL funding? Mr. Hancock: Well, Mr. Speaker, we do conduct audits of certain types of grants such as the credit enrolment unit grant, student transportation, and enrolment numbers, et cetera.

But, again, because this is block funding, because it’s up to the school boards to determine how best to apply the funding, it wouldn’t be appropriate to audit specifically this funding at this point. However, I’d indicate again that we are developing an accountability pillar pi ece which would show whether boards are achieving the outcomes that are desired, and if they’re not achieving the outcomes that are desired, we would consider whether the funding formula needed to be changed to effect that. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Gold Bar, followed by the hon. Member for St. Albert.

Workplace Health and Safety Mr. MacDonald: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Unfortunately, workplace deaths in Alberta have risen 34 per cent in the last three years. My first question is to the minister in charge of occupational health and safety. How can the minister contend that Alberta is overall a safer place to work today than in the past when one Alberta worker per week in 2008 lost their life as a result of a workplace fatality? Mr. Goudreau: Mr. Speaker, I do agree that workplace injuries or fatalities are totally unacceptable, and our government is constantly working to see those numbers go down.

What the hon. member failed to indicate is that our numbers, in fact, per 100 person-years are decreasing. We are heading in the right direction. We do have more people than ever working in this particular province and we’ve got more vehicles on the roads, so it seems that more things will happen. But our overall numbers when it comes to the disabling- injury rates or the lost-time claim rates are in fact going down. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. MacDonald: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The hon. minister could tell that to the family of a deceased worker.

Given that workplace deaths from occupational diseases have doubled since 2002 from 31 deaths per year to 64 deaths in 2008, why is an accident investigation report from the government not admissible as evidence for any purpose at a trial arising out of the injury or accident, an investigation, or a public inquiry under the Fatality Inquiries Act? Mr. Goudreau: Mr. Speaker, I don’t have the details of that particular question, so I’d be pleased to get more information and then respond to the member accordingly. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. MacDonald: Thank you.

That’s incredible that you don’t know why that has occurred under your watch, sir. Again to the same minister: why is it not a legal requirement under Alberta’s occupational health and safety laws to develop an OH and S policy or to have one posted at a work site? Mr. Goudreau: Mr. Speaker, we encourage active participation between employers and employees to minimize any type of injuries or incidents on the work site. We continue to work with industry. We encourage them to protect their employees, and we’ve got a number of campaigns and initiatives across the province to have that happen. The Speaker: The hon.

Member for St. Albert, followed by the hon. Member for Calgary McCall. Oil Sands Development Mr. Allred: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My first question is to the hon. Minister of Environment. The March 2009 issue of National Geographic contains an

article entitled The Canadian Oil Boom: Scraping Bottom. The

article has been held out as being very negative towards the Athabasca oil sands, but in reading the article, the text in particular, I find the

article overall gives a very reason- ably positive impression of this engine of Alberta’s economy. To the minister: have you read the article, and does it accurately reflect the facts? Mr. Renner: Mr. Speaker, I have in fact read the article, and to a large extent I agree with the observation that the hon. member has made. This is one of the more balanced representations that we have seen in some time. That being said, it’s a representation of the past, and this government and this ministry are focused on the future.

As I’ve said a number of times, I would be very interested if I could turn the clock ahead two or three years and have that same reporter come back and see what changes have taken place as a result of what the government is doing today. The Speaker: Hon. member, we’re dealing with policy. Mr. Allred: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A concern was expressed in the

article with regard to the amount of overburden that has to be removed to extract one barrel of oil. How is this concern being addressed by your department? Mr. Renner: Mr. Speaker, the issue of overburden is not unique to oil sands; it’s really something th at goes along with any surface mining operation. Our department, as you know, has been working very hard on developing a new way of dealing with reclamation and speeding up the reclamation. We talked in the Speech from the Throne about a need to speed up the reclamation. Progressive

March 2, 2009 Alberta Hansard 161 reclamation is something that we feel very strongly about: setting benchmarks in time, creating some benchmarks that need to be met and perhaps some incentives to help to achieve them. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Allred: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My last question is to the hon. Minister of Energy. The National Geographic

article states that the oil sands industry is wasting the cleanest fuel, being natural gas, to make the dirtiest fuel. What is your response to that statement? 2:40 Mr. Knight: Well, Mr. Speaker, first, let’s be very clear about this. Fuels derived from bitumen meet the same standards as any other fuels delivered in the province of Alberta or anywhere in North America. An independent analysis would show that from ground to gas station fuels derived from oil sands are marginally more carbon intensive than fuels from Middle Eastern oil, and they are actually comparable to fuels derived from California heavy oil. In terms of the natural gas required in bitumen extraction, the very same

article that’s being quoted here states that, in fact, the energy produced from a barrel of synthetic oil is five times the energy that’s required to produce it. The Speaker: Hon. members, that was 94 questions and responses today. head: Statement by the Speaker Alberta and Manitoba Question Period Comparison The Speaker: Just by way of information, last week I hosted a delegation from the province of Manitoba, including the Speaker and House leaders, and we talked about question period. The Manitoba question period is 40 minutes. Ours is 50 minutes.

They have no time factor refereed by the Speaker, and oftentimes they’ll get between 15 and 18 questions and responses for question period. We had 94. It’s not at all uncommon for a question from the Leader of the Official Opposition to be upwards of five to 10 minutes and the response from the leader of the government to be the same. After about 25 or 30 minutes they’ll have had two or three exchanges, and you know what happens in the Assembly in such an environment. head: Introduction of Bills The Speaker: The hon. Deputy Premier.

Bill 18 Trade, Investment and Labour Mobility Agreement Implementation Statutes Amendment Act, 2009 Mr. Stevens: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. It’s my pleasure to introduce Bill 18, the Trade, Investment and Labour Mob ility Agreement Implementation Statutes Amendment Act, 2009. We’re now just a few weeks away from fully ushering in Canada’s most comprehensive interprovincial trade agreement, effective April 1, 2009. Bill 18 is an omnibus bill that amends 11 acts to ensure that the government statutes are consistent with the TILMA. In large measure they are administrative in nature.

Colleagues in the Legislature, I would urge you to ultimately find favour with this particular legislation, particularly with the state of the global economy. It will be one way that we can ensure that Albertans have an advantage. Mr. Speaker, thank you. [Motion carried; Bill 18 read a first time] The Speaker: The hon. Minister of Infrastructure. Bill 19 Land Assembly Project Area Act Mr. Hayden: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I request leave to introduce Bill 19, the Land Assembly Project Area Act.

This legislation will improve the process for government to designate and assemble large tracts of land for major infrastructure projects such as tran sportation utility corridors. The legislative framework enhances transparency and accountability when dealing with numerous landowners for large-scale land acquisitions over a long term. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. [Motion carried; Bill 19 read a first time] The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Egmont. Bill 20 Civil Enforcement Amendment Act, 2009 Mr. Denis: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to request leave to introduce Bill 20, the Civil Enforcement Amend- ment Act. Currently individuals who purchase RRSPs sold by a bank or a credit union, also known as noninsurance RRSPs, have no creditor protection for their retirement savings. This bill will change the law so the creditors will not have access to the f unds in noninsurance RRSPs, deferred profit savings plans, or registered retirement income plans. However, creditors will have access to payments out of these retirement plans. This proposed legislation, of course, brings us in line with B.C. and Saskatchewan.

Also, a provision is being added to exempt registered disability savings plans from creditors. These plans are intended to help individuals with disabilities and their families plan for future needs of the individual. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. [Motion carried; Bill 20 read a first time] The Speaker: The hon. Government House Leader. Mr. Hancock: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move that Bill 20 be moved onto the Order Paper under Government Bills and Orders. [Motion carried] head: Tabling Returns and Reports The Speaker: The hon. Minister of Culture and Community Spirit. Mr. Blackett: Thank you very much, Mr.

Speaker. Today I wish to table the appropriate number of copies of four annual reports with the Assembly. The first is the Alberta Foundation for the Arts 2007- 08 annual report. The second document is the Wild Rose Founda- tion 2007-08 annual report, third is the Alberta Historical Resources Foundation 2007-08 annual report, and finally, the fourth document is the Alberta historical resources fund 2007-08 annual report. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Fish Creek. Mrs. Forsyth: Yes. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Pursuant to

section 15 of the Alberta Heritage Savings Trust Fund Act as chair of the Standing Committee on the Alberta Heritage Savings Trust Fund it

Alberta Hansard March 2, 2009162 is my pleasure to table the third-quarter update on the fund. Copies of this report were distributed to all members last Thursday, February 26, 2009. The Speaker: The hon. Opposition House Leader. Ms Blakeman: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I have two tablings today, both from constituents. The first is from constituent Crystal Fisher. She is very concerned that rising costs of tuition, housing, textbooks, and child care are keeping students away from postsecondary education.

She believes that we need to continue to invest in postsecondary education even in difficult economic times and that this will help us meet challenges for the future. The second tabling is from constituent Mary Mumert. She has a number of different concerns, primarily focusing on rent control needed to help cope with the high rents that are impacting a lot of the constituents in Edmonton-Centre, particularly vulnerable groups.

She feels, additionally, that there’s inadequate funding for support- ive housing and group homes and that young offenders need community supports as well as safe housing to prevent them from reoffending. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Gold Bar. Mr. MacDonald: Yes. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I have two tablings this afternoon. The first is a letter that I received from the hon. Minister of Employment and Immigration dated January 12, 2009.

It’s a response to my letter dated D ecember 15, 2008, requesting an update on the workplace health and safety compliance investigation into the accident that occurred at the CNRL Horizon oil sands project on April 24, 2007, which, unfortunately, took the lives of two workers. My second tabling is a letter that I wrote to the hon. Minister of Labour in the federal parliament. This letter is dated February 25, 2009. It’s requesting that the federal government make some changes to the employment insurance structure in Alberta in light of the unfortunate rise in unemployment in this province.

There are some background tables to accompany this letter as well. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Buffalo. Mr. Hehr: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have three tablings today. The first is from the Calgary Police Association president, Mr. John Dooks, wherein he thanks the provincial government for instituting Bill 50, the victims of crime legislation, as well as noting that Bill 201, that I’m speaking on this afternoon, is also necessary to finish the loop, so to speak, in that legislation.

I also have a letter from the Community Life Improvement Council, whose executive director is former police officer Barry Davidson. Therein he, again, supports my initiative in Bill 201. I also have a letter of support from Mike Colle, MPP from the Ontario Legislature, where he supports fully Bill 201. He notes in the letter that they, too, have victims of crime legislation similar to ours but, nevertheless, the need for the bill to close off the loop, so to say, to the criminal element that’s out there. 2:50 The Speaker: I’d just like to remind the hon. member that this is tablings, not debate. The hon.

Member for Edmonton-Strathcona. Ms Notley: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to table the appropri- ate number of copies of 10 reports from long-term care workers indicating specific problems on shifts that were short-staffed. One of these reports, for example, shows that some residents were left in their beds for the morning and part of the afternoon. The second tabling is a report referred to by the leader of the NDP opposition in his questions today. It is titled Canadian Economic Accounts: Fourth Quarter 2008 and December 2008.

Of particular interest is chart 4, showing that the public sector was the only main industrial sector to significantly contribute to total growth in December of last year. Thank you. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Whitecourt-Ste. Anne. Mr. VanderBurg: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to table the appropriate number of copies of correspondence regarding the public health care structure.

This tabling is signed by Helen Pollard, Helen Butterfield, June and Tony Feist, Alex Chiasson, Fern Bougie, Marjorie Andrusiak, Lloyd Doering, Jean Madlung, and Margery Warchola, all on the board of directors of the Whitecourt Seniors Circle. Thank you, sir. head: Tablings to the Clerk The Clerk: I wish to advise the House that the following documents were deposited with the office of the Clerk. On behalf of the hon. Mr. Groeneveld, Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development, response to Written Question 20 and return to order of the Assembly 16, both asked for by Dr. Taft on October 20, 2008.

The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Centre on a point of order. Point of Order Provocative Language Ms Blakeman: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I’ll give you a number of citations, but just so that everyone can follow along with this, this point of order is arising out of an exchange between the Leader of the Official Opposition and the Minister of Energy during the second question from the Leader of the Official Opposi- tion. In fact, to be more specific, the exchange was around the second supplemental and the response to that question. Now, Mr.

Speaker, in M and M on page 365 and also throughout pages 416 to 433 it outlines the purpose of question period and the role of the Official Opposition within that to request information from the government and to hold the government to account by asking questions, clearly. According to Beauchesne 409 and other references in M and M appearing on pages 426 to 427 and also 432, the minister is to answer if it is within their administrative responsi- bility, and I would say that in th is case it was clearly within the ministerial responsibility of the Minister of Energy to answer the question.

He hadn’t been asked a question about child care; he’d been asked a question directly relevant to policies in his department. Interestingly, as I went through this, Mr. Speaker, nowhere in here in the question period sections does it say that the point of question period is to not answer the questions. We just need to be very specific about the way we do ask the questions, but there is some expectation that they will be answered.

In addition to that, I’d like to ra ise the parameters that are set in Beauchesne’s 409 to 411 and specifically 417, in which it says that “answers to questions should be as brief as possible, deal with the

March 2, 2009 Alberta Hansard 163 matter raised and should not provoke debate.” Indeed, that could not describe the exchange that happened here, Mr. Speaker. What’s interesting is that this is an adversarial setup. People are expected to punch above their weight here, and I think that for the most part they do. There’s no expectation that this is a friendly exchange, but there is an expectation that we adhere to a tone of civility, at a minimum. That’s why all of these various parliamentary books refer to decorum in its different ways.

What happened in this exchange was that rather than answering the question, the minister made an observation, and it was of a personal nature, Mr. Speaker. It was clearly directed back to the Leader of the Official Opposition. It wasn’t a general statement that was made about all members of the opposition or all members of the House. It clearly identified the Leader of the Opposition as the person that he meant to be on the receiving end of his statement. He made a personal observation, and I would argue that it was not a personal observation made out of a genuine concern.

Certainly, the tone that accompanied the observation was one of derision. I would go further and say that it was meant to trivialize the concerns that the Leader of the Official Opposition had raised by intimating that in some way the leader was ill and was in need of assistance. [interjections] Once again, I am helped to prove my point by the members of the Assembly. I can always count on you folks to come through and make my point perfectly clear by doing exactly the same poor behaviour. Well done. The point of order that has been raised, Mr.

Speaker, was to call attention to the Minister of Energy, encourage him to in fact answer the question that has been put to him. I know that’s a rarity in this House, but nonetheless I continue to encourage the ministers opposite to do that and as is set out in a number of places in M and M. Let me go to 432 specifically. There are a number of options that are given to a minister: to decline to answer the question, to say they’ll take it under advisement, to answer the question.

Nowhere in there does it say to turn this into a personal attack, trivializing the Leader of the Official Opposition and making it out as though he were somehow ill or in need of aid or required medical attention. So I would in all good humour ask the Minister of Energy to withdraw that statement, and I would be very happy to continue on with the business of the day. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Knight: Mr.

Speaker, first of all, I did not neglect to answer the question, and secondly, what you see in front of you is an individual that was very genuinely concerned for a member of this House and only indicated that concern. In that I see no point of order. The Speaker: The hon. Government House Leader on this. Proceed. Mr. Hancock: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think that the hon. Opposition House Leader in indicating that members of the House helped make her point clearer overstated the help that the members of the House gave her because her point was very far from clear. She started her point of order by giving us a

summary of some of the rules relating to question period, and she missed a few that were really quite important. “It must be a question, not an expression of an opinion, representation, argumentation, nor debate.” That would be 409(1). “A

preamble need not ex ceed one carefully drawn sentence.” That would be 409(2). “A long

preamble on a long question takes an unfair share of time.” That would be 409(2) as well. “Cannot be based upon a hypothesis, cannot seek an opinion, either legal or otherwise.” That would have been a point of order on another question today. Those are very important rules that the hon. member left out in her recitation of the various rules around the House before she got to what I think was her eventual point, which was that the hon. Minister of Energy referred to – in response, I might add, because this might not appear in Hansard – the hon.

Leader of the Opposi- tion appearing very agitated and a bit explosive in his supplementary questions so that we should be careful b ecause he might be having a heart attack. I think the observation was a very, very clear concern that was raised. You know, if we’re going to have decorum in the House – and I think we ought to have decorum in the House – then much of that decorum has to come from not lo ading

preambles with things that don’t make sense or are not accurate, not being argumentative, and not, quite frankly, being explosive in the supplementary questions. Supplementary questions, by the way, in 410(8), should flow from the answers of the question. We seldom see that in the House, Mr. Speaker. 3:00 The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Gold Bar. Mr. MacDonald: Yes. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I listened with interest to the hon.

Official Opposition House Leader and the citations that she quoted from, as she calls it, M and M, or Marleau and Montpetit for the rest of us, and Beauchesne 409 through 411, which are frequently cited by both sides of the House. The Minister of Energy is responsible for questions, not all questions; the President of the Tr easury Board is quite capable of providing information and answers as well, and the minister of finance, and the Premier. Specifically, in the questions that were asked by the hon. Leader of the Official Opposition, it was inappro- priate and disrespectful for the hon.

Minister of Energy to respond that perhaps it was necessary for an emergency department to be called. It certainly is not in tune with what has been going on in this House in the last two to three weeks. I would quite simply say, Mr. Speaker, that I thought it was inappropriate for the Minister of Energy to refer to the hon. Leader of the Official Opposition in the manner that he did in his sugges- tions that perhaps his health was delicate and that he needed attention from emergency medical officials or that an ambulance was to be called. With that, I would just encourage the hon.

Minister of Energy to please consider withdrawing those comments, which I feel were at the time inappropriate. Thank you. The Speaker: Are there others who would like to participate? Well, that has only been, like, 15 minutes. I thank all hon. members for their contribution to this very important part of the people’s business. I’d just like to quote one paragraph from the House of Commons Procedure and Practice.

It’s actually on page 526, and it says: In dealing with unparliamentary language, the Speaker takes into account the tone, manner and intention of the Member speaking; the person to whom the words were directed; the degree of provocation; and, most importantly, whether or not the remarks created disorder in the Chamber. In this instance the hon. Leader of Her Majesty’s Loyal Opposi- tion was somewhat uncharacteristic in the manner in which he addressed the question. He was louder than normal and more forceful than normal.

Hansard does not record the tone, but the chair was here to observe the tone, and it was uncharacteristic of the demeanor of the hon. gentleman, who I believe is very, very well and healthy.

Alberta Hansard March 2, 2009164 The minister’s response, while not dealing with the question, would not seem to have been out of line. It doesn’t seem to have been out of line in the context of the cut and the thrust of parliamen- tary debate. Perhaps I’m being subjective and reaching for this one, but it may very well have been the case that the minister was trying to be a bit humourous. There is a situation in baseball, if anybody is a baseball fan. A powerful hitter is at the plate, a powerful pitcher is on the mound, and the first pitch thrown is – what’s it called? – the brushback. That’s what it’s called.

Perhaps that’s what we’ve had today. head: Orders of the Day The Speaker: The hon. Government House Leader. Mr. Hancock: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I’ve had conversation with the opposition House leaders and I believe have concurrence that it would be appropriate to ask for unanimous consent of the House at this time to revert to government business, notwithstanding that today is reserved for private members’ business, for the sole purpose of allowing the tabling of certain documents relative to the supple- mentary supply estimates and to interim supply estimates and to attend to the concomitant for government motions 5, 6, 7, and 8. So I’d ask for unanimous consent of the House to do that. [Unanimous consent granted] head: Transmittal of Estimates Mr.

Snelgrove: Mr. Speaker, I have received certain messages from His Honour the Honourable the Lieutenant Governor, which I now transmit to you. The Sergeant-at-Arms: Order! The Speaker: There are two messages, hon. members. The Lieutenant Governor transmits supplementary supply estimates of certain sums required for the service of the province for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2009, and recommends the same to the Legislative Assembly.

In the second the Lieutenant G overnor transmits interim supply estimates of certain sums required for the service of the province and of certain sums required from the lottery fund for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2010, and recommends the same to the Legislative Assembly. Please be seated. Ms Evans: Mr. Speaker, when a second or subsequent set of estimates is to be tabled,

section 8 of the Government Accountability Act requires that an amended fiscal plan be tabled. Accordingly, I wish to table the 2008-09 quarterly budget report for the third quarter, which serves as the amended fiscal plan. This quarterly report has already been provided to all MLAs. I have also made the report public as required by

section 9 of the Government Account- ability Act. Mr. Snelgrove: Mr. Speaker, the quarterly report tabled by the Minister of Finance and Enterprise provides the framework for additional spending authority for the Legislative Assembly and three departments of the government. I now wish to table the 2008-09 supplementary supply estimates. These will provide additional spending authority to the Legislative Assembly and three depart- ments of government. When passed, the estimates will authorize an approximate increase of $128 million in voted expense and equip- ment/inventory purchases .

These estimates will also authorize transfers of $7.4 million of the previously approved spending authority between departments. Mr. Speaker, I also wish to table the 2009-10 interim supply estimates. These interim suppl y estimates will provide spending authority to the Legislative Assembly and the government from April 1, 2009, to June 30, 2009, inclusively. During that period it is anticipated that the spending authorization will have been provided for the entire fiscal year ending March 31, 2010.

When passed, these interim supply estimates will authorize approximate spending of $9 billion for expense and equipment/inventory purchases, $581 million for capital investment, $50 million for nonbudgetary disbursements, and $409 million for lottery fund payments. Interim supply amounts are based on department needs to fund government programs and services until June 30, 2009. While many payments are monthly, other payments are due at the beginning of each quarter and the beginning of the fiscal year.

Some payments are seasonal. head: Government Motions Referral of Supplementary Estimates to Committee of Supply 5. Mr. Snelgrove moved:

Be it resolved that the message from His Honour the Honour- able the Lieutenant Governor, the 2008-09 supplementary supply estimates, No. 2, for the general revenue fund, and all matters connected therewith be referred to Committee of Supply. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Centre. Ms Blakeman: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I’m happy to concur with Government Motion 5, which is to refer the supplemen- tary supply estimates to the Committee of Supply.

I think that what is also important as part of this process on supplementary supply – and I have put this idea forward a number of times with my colleague the Government House Leader, but I would also like to put it forward in the context of the supplementary supply referral request today – is that we do come up with some sort of a formula by which we can determine the number of days that we take out of this Assembly to debate supplementary supply in the future.

We’ve had a very uneven history of this over the time that I’ve served in this Assembly, and we have reached the point of extreme difficulty for the Official Opposition and, I’m sure, the third party to be able to try and bring meaningful debate to supplementary supply estimates debates when we are looking at almost a billion dollars and, I think, last time 14 different departments.

We were not able in the time allotted to debate each and every one of the ministries that had money added into its budget. 3:10 I would argue that is a requirement of this House that we do allocate enough time to thoroughly debate what is in front of us. I know that at the time the President of the Treasury Board and myself had quite an extended exchange on policy, and then later he took me to task as I raised this very same request for a formula for having wasted all that time on policy discussion. In fact, I think that was an important part of what we were trying to do.

Who says that we’re not allowed to discuss policy as part of this? As part of my concurrence and, I’m sure, my caucus’s concur- rence with referring these estimates to Committee of Supply, I would ask the House to please consider developing some kind of a formula and, if I may, suggest that we look at something that would be more than one day’s worth of debate if the amount were over a billion

March 2, 2009 Alberta Hansard 165 dollars or if more than six departments were involved in receiving additional funds. Thank you for allowing me to add that into the concurrence motion on the referral. I appreciate that opportunity, and I’m happy to support the government motion. Thank you. The Speaker: Hon. members, this is a debatable motion. Anyone else to participate? The hon. Government House Leader to close the debate, or should we call the question? [Government Motion 5 carried] 6. Mr. Snelgrove moved:

Be it resolved that pursuant to Standing Order 61(2) the number of days that Committee of Supply will be called to consider the 2008-09 supplementary supply estimates, No. 2, for the general revenue fund shall be one day. The Speaker: Hon. members, according to Standing Order 61(2) this is not a debatable motion, so I’ll call the question. [Government Motion 6 carried] 7. Mr. Snelgrove moved:

Be it resolved that the message from His Honour the Honour- able the Lieutenant Governor, the 2009-10 interim supply estimates for the general revenue fund and the lottery fund, and all matters connected therewith be referred to Committee of Supply. The Speaker: Hon. members, under Standing Order 18(1)(

a) this is a debatable motion, so if any member wishes to participate, please draw yourself to my attention. There being none, shall I call the question? Hon. Members: Question. [Government Motion 7 carried] 8. Mr. Snelgrove moved:

Be it resolved that pursuant to Standing Order 61(2) the number of days that Committee of Supply will be called to consider the 2009-10 interim supply estimates for the general revenue fund and the lottery fund shall be two days. The Speaker: Under the standing order identified by the hon. President of the Treasury Board this is not a debatable motion. [Government Motion 8 carried] The Speaker: Before I call on the hon. Member for Calgary- Buffalo, might we revert briefly to Introduction of Guests? [Unanimous consent granted] head: Introduction of Guests (reversion) The Speaker: The hon.

Member for Edmonton-Centre. Ms Blakeman: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I know that we’ve had a couple of individuals join us in the gallery who are very interested in the debate that my hon. colleague from Calgary-Buffalo is about to launch into. Joining us in the gallery today is Laura Young, the president of the Grant MacEwan Young Liberals club. By the way, there is a Grant MacEwan in the fabulous constituency of Edmonton-Centre. I know there are others elsewhere as well, but we wanted to acknowledge Laura’s presence here. Also, Zach Jeffries is joining her. He’s a friend and supporter from Saskatoon.

I’d ask if they could please rise and accept the warm welcome of the Assembly. head: Public Bills and Orders Other than Government Bills and Orders Second Reading Bill 201 Traffic Safety (Vehicles with Unlawfully Possessed Firearms) Amendment Act, 2009 The Speaker: Well, now I’m happy to call on the hon. Member for Calgary-Buffalo. Mr. Hehr: Thank you for this opportunity to speak to Bill 201, which I had the privilege to introduce on February 18.

My private member’s bill, if passed, would give police officers the authority to impound a vehicle and suspend the driver’s licence of a driver who was unlawfully in possession of an illegal firearm in a vehicle. The suspension and impoundment would occur immediately and last for 24 hours. In addition to charges laid and proven in court, there will be possible further fines of up to $25,000 or imprisonment of up to one year.

For further offences an accused would face suspensions of up to five years or possibly even a lifetime ban from driving in this province. [The Deputy Speaker in the chair] As recent events show, gun violence affects many communities. Albertans have seen repeated attempts by police forces, victim advocacy gr oups, and Legislatures – federally, provincially, and municipally – to stem the tide of violent crime. I hope this legisla- tion can provide police with another tool to combat the scourge of gun violence. This act has the potential to deter individuals who choose to arm themselves before taking to the streets.

These individuals must know that there will be immediate consequences if they drive around on our streets packing heat. A string of recent tragedies in my own community and, indeed, across the province makes this bill more relevant and necessary than ever. Since 2007 Calgary has endured five very public gangland shootings. Neither innocence nor the conscious choice to not participate in gang culture is adequate protection from becoming a casualty of this siege.

Casualties such as Keni Su’a, who was shot dead during a meal because he was an i nnocent witness to a gangland assassination on New Year’s Day, are becoming more frequent. One of the most appalling incidents occurred in my own constituency of Calgary-Buffalo. On September 14 of last year Jose Neto, a Brazilian student, was blinded when he was an innocent victim caught in the crossfire. This event led Chief Hanson to explain how tired he was of politicians trotting out the same old solutions, banning or restricting weapons. “They’re not getting it,” said the chief.

Today I’m bringing forward a new and innovative solution, one that Alberta’s police officers have rallied to support. The b ill has received support in principle from the Calgary Police Association and its president John Dooks, who has been very supportive during the process of bringing the idea to fruition. It is also supported by

Alberta Hansard March 2, 2009166 Calgary’s Community Life Improvement Council, which has voiced approval for Bill 201 through Barry Davidson, the executive director, a former law enforcement professional currently active in Calgary’s inner-city community. The bill is an attempt to use our provincial law-making power in a forward-thinking jurisdiction. As you know, there is a limit to what we as members can accomplish. Provincially we have jurisdiction over motor vehicle licences.

Similar community needs have led to these types of amendments to the Traffic Safety Act so that we can control the solicitation of sex and habitual and dangerous driving practices. Some of the ideas for Bill 201 came from an MPP from Ontario, Mike Colle. His bill was essentia lly trying to do the same thing. The legislation Mr. Colle proposed also takes dead aim at gun-toting gangbangers, attempting, as I am, to suspend their licences and impound their cars. I will point out that Ontario, like us, also has a victims of crime bill, yet they saw the need to pass a similar bill in Ontario to the one I am proposing.

His bill has passed third reading there. Bill 201 also has great personal importance to me for obvious reasons: I have been a victim of a drive-by shooting. Maybe – just maybe – if legislation like this were in place, things could be different. It is too easy to carry a gun in a car in Alberta. Again, I want to help police make it harder for thugs and gangbangers to carry weapons. After unlawful firearms, the ones with serial numbers removed or those in possession of known gang associates, I want to help police deter potential criminals to stop crimes before someone gets hurt.

This bill is aimed squarely at those who would try to bring harm to others. Provincially we do not have all the powers over firearm control, but we do have powers over motor vehicle licences. This bill, if passed, would give us another tool in trying to make our roads and streets safer. It is not going to completely eliminate gun violence, but it’s a useful step forward.

The people on the street that I’ve talked to, the lawyers I’ve talked to, and the rank-and-file police officers in our cities seem to th ink that this would give them an effective tool to reduce gang and drug crime. 3:20 It’s too easy for an accused to say: “That gun in my car? I didn’t know it was in my car. I borrowed the car. I didn’t realize my trunk had three guns in it. I just lease the car.” I’d like to take away those excuses. The sad thing is that given the state of the law, this excuse enables them to get off scot-free. Why are they driving down 17th Avenue with an unlawful gun in their car?

Where are they going with that unlawful gun? This is not a measure to restrict people who have the legal right to carry guns, whether they’re hunters, target shooters, or police officers. Bill 201 is aimed at thugs who shouldn’t be carrying guns. I’m well aware that private members’ bills brought to this Assembly are rarely successful, but consider the good that can be accomplished when politicians of all parties work together. Just recently the federal government implemented tougher sentences for gang-related murders and drive-by shootings, legislation that was supported by all three opposition parties.

Our provincial govern- ment passed victims of crime legislation that will hit criminals where it hurts, in the pocketbook. I was proud to speak in favour of that legislation, and my colleagues and I in the Alberta Liberal caucus were glad to vote in favour of the bill last year. Still, call me a skeptic, but I have a feeling that some of the hon. members in this House are planning to vote against today’s legisla- tion. I got that hint maybe at the surprise press conference that was held this morning.

They’ll probably object to this legislation for one of the following three reasons: one, we can already accomplish the goals of this bill with the existing victims of crime legislation; two, we can’t pass this bill because it falls outside provincial jurisdiction; three, what about the long gun? Won’t it be caught up in this legislation? I’ll deal with each one of these objections in turn. First, the Victims of Crime Act. I’ve already indicated that this is an excellent piece of legislation, but it doesn’t address the specific cases I’m trying to solve here today: gangbangers driving around with illegal guns.

Let me offer a scenario. The police pull over a vehicle with three gangbangers in it. In the back seat of the car the police find an illegal gun. They lay charges under existing legisla- tion. What happens? The gangbangers all deny that the gun belongs to them, and there’s no conviction. Without a conviction the Victims of Crime Act is rendered virtually useless. It can’t come into play. I did attend with great interest the Minister of Justice’s press conference today, where she stated that even without a conviction the Department of Justice could conceivably proceed civilly against individuals.

Well, let me be the first to tell you something. The hon. minister, although I really do appreciate her efforts, is dreaming in technicolour when she believes that this will be enabled to happen. Just to repeat that because I’m serious here: she’s dreaming in technicolour that we’ll be able to get the people we’re going after in this bill. The way we need to effectively deal with this crime is by the legislation in Bill 201. If we continue to leave the bill as it is, it will not be able to go after the people who are driving around on our cities’ streets. That’s why we need B ill 201. It will close this loophole.

This is why a similar bill passed third reading in Ontario even though they have a victims of crime legislation very similar to our own. It closes the loophole. Let’s make sure that we do the same here. What about provincial jurisdiction? Some of you will no doubt argue that this bill is in pith and substance a law directed toward criminal activity and should therefore be dealt with by the feds. But here in Alberta we’ve never been shy about the limits of our jurisdiction regarding the regulation on transportation and motor vehicles and how such regulation can enhance public safety.

What we would be doing here in the implementation of this bill we have done before. We passed Bill 206, which allows the seizure of johns’ vehicles. If we were really worried about it being outside of our jurisdiction, we would not have passed the Victims of Crime Act. What I am saying here . . . [Mr. Hehr’s speaking time expired] The Deputy Speaker: Hon. member, I’m not sure whether the chair heard you stating that you moved second reading of the bill. So if you have done so, please state that. Mr. Hehr: Yes, I’ve moved second reading of this bill. The Deputy Speaker: Thank you. The hon.

Member for Calgary-Egmont. Mr. Denis: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. As I was making my notes for this speech last week, I recalled being at a luncheon where the Member for Airdrie-Chestermere was the guest speaker. His comment was that, quote, the safety of our streets is one of the most important responsibilities of any government. This obviously rings true. Accordingly, it’s my pleasure to join the debate on Bill 201. This bill is intended to give police officers new tools in fighting gang and gun crime in Alberta, and I support this intention.

Specifically, this legislation would allow police to seize the vehicle of an individual if he or she is found to be in possession of illegal

March 2, 2009 Alberta Hansard 167 firearms as well as give police officers the discretion to issue a $25,000 fine to the offending individual and up to six months in prison. Mr. Speaker, I fully support any reasonable measure that would prevent or hinder the activities of organized crime. However, while the intentions of this bill are undoubtedly noble, this legislation falls short of providing any additional tool that is not already in place. This past fall we saw a very important piece of legislation debated and passed unanimously in this Assembly.

That, of course, as the Member for Calgary-Buffalo referred, was the Victims Restitution and Compensation Payment Act. This was amended to achieve what Bill 201 intends to accomplish. Our existing legislation takes into consideration all assets of crime, not simply illegal firearms and vehicles. This was a direct re sult of consultations between this government and community leaders, Alberta police chiefs, and Crown prosecutors. In fact, I spoke with police chief Rick Hanson last Friday about this very issue.

Let’s talk about what our existing legislation also covers and how it covers every measure dealing with Bill 201, Mr. Speaker. First, Bill 201 proposes to allow police officers to seize the vehicle of anyone carrying an illegal firearm in it. However, under our existing legislation police officers can immediately seize a suspect’s assets if they believe the suspect is involved in criminal activities.

This is not limited to vehicles; it also includes houses, land, industrial facilities, cash, and unauthorized firearms and is also intended to effectively disrupt the activities of crime by removing the financial and material incentives to commit criminal acts. Now, the Member for Calgary-Buffalo referred to a press conference earlier. I do have a copy of the press release today. It is in black and white, not in technicolour. It indicates that since this new law has actually come into place, we have seized $4.6 million of illegal profit taken out of criminal hands.

That includes seven vehicles, one of which was even used to attempt to run down a police officer. For shame. The minister’s quotation I wholeheart- edly endorse: “This law has real teeth. If you are involved in criminal activity, you need to be aware that we have the power to come and take away your luxury SUV, your home or your bag full of drug money. You will lose that property.” Now, to ensure that an individual’s property is not wrongly seized, of course, there has to be due process, and in this case a court-ordered extension is required to hold the suspected proceeds of crime for more than 72 hours.

Secondly, Bill 201 seeks to impose a $25,000 fine for those charged with the possession of an unauthorized firearm. Currently the existing legislation allows for a fine of up to $10,000 to be levied against an individual if he or she fails to follow the orders of a police officer or the court. This, Mr. Speaker, as I mentioned earlier, is a broad application, not just to illegal firearms but to many aspects of crime. It may be assumed that by increasing the fine on a narrow basis, for example the possession of firearms, we would be increas- ing the financial deterrent to carry illegal firearms in this province.

However, simply imposing a fine for one piece of the puzzle, illegal firearms, will have little effect on disrupting the activities of organized crime. A more comprehensive approach is required, and that is what this government has done. Third, I must also add that not only does our existing legislation actively target organized crime; it also works to provide financial support to those affected directly by crime, the victims, who must always be our paramount concern, Mr. Speaker. At present all of the funds r eceived from the sale of all assets and levied fines are directed to the victims of crime.

Under our current legislation a property disposal hearing is held to ensure and to determine which proceeds of crime should be sold and how they would be collected. This hearing is based on a civil standard of proof, which of course is a balance of probabilities, much less onerous than the standard in the criminal proceedings, which is beyond a reasonable doubt. 3:30 Fourth, Mr. Speaker, Bill 201 would allow a police officer to suspend the licence of an individual charged with carrying an illegal firearm.

Now, looking elsewhere to the gun registry introduced by the federal Liberal government in the mid-1990s, a major flaw is that criminals aren’t going to register their guns or worry about using an unregistered weapon in committing a crime. Similarly, I submit to this House that the suspension of a driver’s licence is not going to deter a criminal from using a vehicle in a subsequent criminal act. Criminals will continue to operate motor vehicles, if they are in their possession, for their purposes. Mr.

Speaker, as a government we need to have, again, a compre- hensive approach if we want to truly impair the activities of organized crime in this province. Such an approach, reflected by this government, has been conducted to the recommendations of the safe communities task force, chaired by a former Solicitor General, the Member for Calgary-Fish Creek in this Assembly.

Since the final report was delivered to the then Minister of Justice, the Member for Calgary-Glenmore, this government has aggressively implemented new measures to deal with gangs and other criminal activity in our communities, and our Solicitor General has been strong. These include an increase in nearly 300 front-line police officers province-wide, 42 new prosecutors in the city of Calgary – yes, us lawyers can do good, Mr.

Speaker – 50 new probation officers with a total of 110 more over three years to enhance supervision of repeat offenders, and of course the Pathways to Housing program through the Alex Community Health Clinic in Calgary, focusing on taking Calgarians with mental health problems and addictions off the street. I also wish to add, Mr. Speaker, that last year the Member for Calgary-East introduced a motion for the government to consider innovative tools in crime reduction. Our legislation does just that. It gives our courts and police officers powerful new tools to disrupt the activities of organized crime.

Now, I must also note that our legislation is supported by many parties throughout Canada despite what label you may have. The ideological underpinning, of course, is rooted in classical liberalism, with a small “l”, as discussed in the writings of John Locke, Adam Smith, or Thomas Jefferson. Classical liberalism doesn’t just deal with matters of economics but also addresses the principles for dealing with crime.

Goodman, from the National Center for Policy Analysis, writes about substantive rights versus police powers for the state. “In order to prevent crime, catch and punish criminals, settle disputes and carry out other duties necessary to protect rights, every government will necessarily exercise police powers.” Mr. Speaker, our government understands and employs this philosophy. Indeed, this is the underpinning of our existing legislation that we introduced last year. Looking to other governments, Mr. Speaker, the B.C.

Liberal government, to our west, also seems to understand this approach to crime, having hired additional police officers and Crown prosecutors and targeted gang activity. You’d think that such an approach would come from a Conservative government, but this is from a Liberal government. As well, to our east many consider the most conservative Premier in Saskatchewan’s history to have been Ross Thatcher, who carried the provincial Liberal label.

Years after he left office, as a teenager I got to know one of his successors, who espouses several of the philosophies of classical liberalism, including principles of fiscal

Alberta Hansard March 2, 2009168 responsibility and crime control, not gun control, not dissimilar from our government’s positions on these issues. This is far different from the gun registry policies of the past federal Liberal government that simply waste money that could be otherwise put towards crime reduction and law enforcement. Now, Mr. Speaker, it seems to me that the Member for Calgary- Buffalo seems to get this whole philosophy about crime control, and I have to commend him for taking this initiative that affects citizens in his constituency and throughout the province.

Clearly, crime is an important issue to him, and he sees this as something that crosses party labels. I have to personally thank him because I saw him take an interest in my constituency, as he mentioned, with the murder of Keni Su’a, when I saw him at the memorial shortly after the year turned for 2009. Mr. Speaker, in conclusion, my submissions are not meant to be unduly caustic or self-serving but to commend the member for taking crime as a serious issue not just in downtown Calgary or in downtown Edmonton but throughout our entire province.

My submission to this Hous e is that our existing legislation already provides measures for our courts and police to bring violent criminals to justice, and as such I will not be supporting Bill 201. I look forward to the rest of the debate, but I encourage all of my colleagues to take a similar approach. I will table my references to the page. Thank you. The Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Currie. Mr. Taylor: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

It is my pleasure to rise in support of Bill 201 in second reading and to make mention at the beginning that I would think that the death of 43-year-old Keni Su’a, an innocent bystander who was shot in a gangland-related slaying at a restaurant in the constituency of the hon. Member for Calgary-Egmont on New Year’s Day in 2009, would prompt the hon. Member for Calgary-Egmont to want to support this legislation and all legislation that has to do with making our streets safer, our citizens safer, innocent people safer, and cracking down on gangs, guns, and crime. Classic liberalism, as the hon.

Member for Calgary-Egmont knows because he used to consort with Liberals in his home province of Saskatchewan, as has been raised in this House before, does take a holistic approach to serious matters, social and otherwise, and I don’t think you’d find anybody – well, I don’t know that I can speak for everybody in this House.

But I don’t think you would find many people in this House who would disagree that we have a serious enough problem with guns, gangs, and crime in this province in our two big cities, Calgary and Edmonton, on at least one First Nations reserve, Hobbema, that we need to tackle it in any way, I think, that we can see fit. It’s not only this province.

My colleague from Calgary-Egmont made reference to the efforts of a number of other provinces in his rather quickly delivered 20-minute speech in the space of 10 minutes, but it goes to the issue that gang violence, fuelled by the drug trade and enabled by the ease with which gangbangers can transport their weapons of death and destruction from point A to point B, is an issue in many cities across this country, in many locations across this country. It is a big enough issue, in fact, that the federal Conservative government brought in antigang legislation just last week.

It is an issue that all of us should be concerned about, whether we are Liberals, Conservatives, New Democrats, members of any other political party of any other stripe or jurisdiction or philosophy or ideology in any part of this country because it is a problem that affects Canadians in many locations across this nation. It affects people in Toronto, and so it is that the MPP from the Ontario riding of Eglinton-Lawrence, Mike Colle, brought in a bill very similar to Bill 201 in the Ontario Legislature and wrote a letter supportive of the MLA for Calgary-Buffalo’s Bill 201. It is a problem in Vancou- ver. I