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May 13, 2010

39th Parliament, 2nd Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2010-May-13 (PDF)

L032 - Thu 13 May 2010 / Jeu 13 mai 2010

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L’ONTARIO

Thursday 13 May 2010 Jeudi 13 mai 2010

ORDERS OF THE DAY

SECURITIES INDUSTRY

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

ORAL QUESTIONS

TAXATION

TAXATION

TAXATION

HOSPITAL GOVERNANCE

TAXATION

ONTARIO PROVINCIAL POLICE

NOT-FOR-PROFIT CORPORATIONS

LONG-TERM CARE

LABOUR DISPUTE

PHARMACISTS

ANIMAL PROTECTION

MINING INDUSTRY

TAXATION

NURSES

HOSPITAL FUNDING

IMMIGRATION POLICY

ABATTOIRS

CORRECTION OF RECORD

CORRECTION OF RECORD

MEMBERS’ STATEMENTS

ROSEMARY SMITH

ANTI-BULLYING INITIATIVES

PHARMACISTS

FUNDRAISING

TAXATION

HOPEWELL AVENUE PUBLIC SCHOOL

HOME CARE

ONTARIO ECONOMY

NURSES

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

ENDING PUBLIC FUNDING

OF ELECTROCONVULSIVE

THERAPY ACT, 2010 /

LOI DE 2010 METTANT FIN

AU FINANCEMENT PUBLIC

DE LA THÉRAPIE ÉLECTROCONVULSIVE

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY

AND RESPONSES

HEALTH PROMOTION /

PROMOTION DE LA SANTÉ

PETITIONS

ONTARIO PHARMACISTS

DIAGNOSTIC SERVICES

ONTARIO PHARMACISTS

REPLACEMENT WORKERS

NIAGARA DISTRICT

SECONDARY SCHOOL

ONTARIO PHARMACISTS

TAXATION

ONTARIO PHARMACISTS

WATER QUALITY

PRIVATE MEMBERS’

PUBLIC BUSINESS

RETIREMENT SAVINGS PLANS

FOR EMPLOYEES AND SELF-

EMPLOYED PERSONS ACT, 2010 /

LOI DE 2010 SUR LES RÉGIMES

D’ÉPARGNE-RETRAITE DES EMPLOYÉS

ET DES TRAVAILLEURS INDÉPENDANTS

ACCESS TO INFORMATION

ESCAPING DOMESTIC

VIOLENCE ACT, 2010 /

LOI DE 2010 SUR LA FUITE

FACE À LA VIOLENCE FAMILIALE

RETIREMENT SAVINGS PLANS

FOR EMPLOYEES AND SELF-

EMPLOYED PERSONS ACT, 2010 /

LOI DE 2010 SUR LES RÉGIMES

D’ÉPARGNE-RETRAITE DES EMPLOYÉS

ET DES TRAVAILLEURS INDÉPENDANTS

ACCESS TO INFORMATION

ESCAPING DOMESTIC

VIOLENCE ACT, 2010 /

LOI DE 2010 SUR LA FUITE

FACE À LA VIOLENCE FAMILIALE

RETIREMENT SAVINGS PLANS

FOR EMPLOYEES AND SELF-

EMPLOYED PERSONS ACT, 2010 /

LOI DE 2010 SUR LES RÉGIMES

D’ÉPARGNE-RETRAITE DES EMPLOYÉS

ET DES TRAVAILLEURS INDÉPENDANTS

The House met at 0900.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Good morning. Please remain standing for the Lord’s Prayer, followed by the aboriginal prayer.

Prayers.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

SECURITIES INDUSTRY

Resuming the debate adjourned on March 25, 2010, on the amendment to the motion by Mr. Duncan to locate the new common securities regulator in Toronto.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Further debate?

Mr. Khalil Ramal: The last time we spoke about this was on March 25, 2010: an amendment introduced to the motion by our finance minister to make sure Toronto is the centre of the financial system in the country.

I listened to my colleague the member from Pickering–Scarborough East speaking about many different things. I remember that he said, “When I go outside the province of Ontario, people ask me, ‘Where are you from?’ and I say I’m from Toronto. ‘Oh, yes, we know Toronto. Where exactly in Toronto?’” He would say, “From Pickering–Scarborough East,” which is adjacent to the city of Toronto. It’s the same thing when he goes outside the province of Ontario or outside the country.

People ask him the same question, and he answers the same way, because everyone around the globe, especially in North America, recognizes the city of Toronto as the financial capital of the province of Ontario and for the whole country.

I’m a person from London, Ontario. Actually we’re proud to say that our city of London invests a lot in the financial industry. We are home to many insurance companies, strong banks and financial institutions. But the main issue here, as the finance minister mentioned, is to create one security system for the whole country, because it’s important for our financial institutions to be sound and in good condition.

Not long ago, I was speaking to my friend who owns Global Financial, which deals in education funds, mutual funds and other investments. In order to be a financial institution in Canada—to be a national company—you have to have an office in every province and territory. We have 13 provinces and territories in Canada, and you have to have an office in every one of them. Why? In order to get recognition as a national institution. The sad

part is that every province and territory is a different jurisdiction with different regulations and a different system, which makes it difficult for many financial institutions to have one system adopted across the nation. That’s why our finance minister is calling for one regulator across Canada. I know that when our minister, the Honourable Gerry Phillips, got elected in 2003, he set the tone and introduced a way to create one mechanism for the whole nation and for Toronto to be the capital of that system.

Why Toronto as the capital? Because all the analysis by all the financial institutions recognizes its role in the financial system in the whole country and in all the provinces. We in Ontario employ almost 365,000 people in financial institutions across this beautiful province, and the majority of those people work in the city of Toronto. Since 2003, we have increased by almost 60,000 the number of people who work in financial institutions.

If you want to add the people working in the legal departments, IT departments and many other sectors that support these financial institutions, you’d be talking about almost 700,000 people in the province of Ontario working in the financial system and in industries related to the financial system.

Therefore, I think it’s our obligation and duty to strengthen that system and give it the ability to maintain, flourish, expand and make a secure system, not just for the province of Ontario but for the whole nation. We are well recognized not just in the province of Ontario, not just in Canada, but in North America. Toronto is recognized as the third-largest financial centre after Chicago and New York. Also, we have very strong banks—five of the strongest banks in North America—situated here in Toronto in the province of Ontario.

I know that folks in London—my people in London—would say, “Why not London?” I know that the member from Simcoe–Grey mentioned that London should be the capital, not Toronto; we should separate Toronto from the province and create another capital, London, Ontario. Passionately, I agree with him, but when I think about it, I think that our obligation and duty is to strengthen ourselves in the province of Ontario by creating unity between Toronto and the rural areas and between Toronto and other cities, because we are only strong when we are working together, from Toronto to London to Windsor to Sarnia to Ottawa, to small towns to big towns. All the communities will create a force—

Interjection.

Mr. Khalil Ramal: Peterborough, too. Peterborough plays a pivotal role in our economy, and they have great representation here in the House. It’s important when we work together.

In order to create that mechanism, we have to create one regulator to manage and control that system because a company that wants to come to Ontario or to Canada to open gets stuck with so many different rules. As I mentioned a few minutes ago, my friend who owns Global Financial manages almost $3.5 billion of investments from across the province of Ontario, from across the nation, and sometimes faces difficulties because the rules we have in the province of Ontario are different than the rules in Alberta, British Columbia, Quebec or other provinces.

So I think it makes it difficult to have many different systems. Could you imagine if we had one regulator, one system, adopted across the nation? It would make it easier for those financial institutions to flourish, to grow and to increase their capacity and their potential, and would also welcome other investment to come from around the globe to invest in Ontario and Canada. I think it’s a very important step.

That’s why I think the Minister of Finance, all the ministers of finance and all the people who work in the financial sector in the province of Ontario endorse this move. Also, especially when we had the difficult financial situations happen in North America and worldwide, people panicked. The people who invested in the mutual funds lost more than their investment. The people who had some kind of investment with different companies with no security lost their investments. Many names float around the globe because there was no security in many different nations; that is why people invested money heavily, to invest and secure the seniority in their life, and they lost it.

Therefore, I think it’s important for all of us to create that regulator body, one system that would be managed across the whole nation, and we recommend, as the people from Ontario, Toronto to be the capital because Toronto naturally hosts, at the present time, most of the financial institutions and the strongest financial institutions in the whole country and is also ranked the third, maybe the second, in North America after the financial crisis in the United States and many different places.

The bankers and the financial institutions in this province and this nation show how much we are able to manage our investments, how much we have security in our investments, because we took the right approach. We made sure that all the people who invested in our financial institutions were secure because we have a mechanism in place. So the only crippling obstacle facing those financial institutions is the many regulators across the nation, which makes it difficult to attract more business, to attract more financial institutions to come to this nation.

I was reading some things about how many commission tribunal investigations happen in the province of Ontario: almost 48%, up from 23%. I think the number increased as a result of the dilemma of many different institutions that didn’t manage their assets or their financial systems very well. It also creates some kind of chaotic situations among the people who invest in those institutions. It’s our Ontario Securities Commission which plays a pivotal role in this area to make sure all the banks, all the financial institutions, follow the rules and regulations and make sure all the people who invest in those companies have some kind of security in place.

But when you find out you lost most of your investments, especially as a result of the crisis that happened almost 16, 17, 18 months ago, you get panicked. What are we supposed to do? How can we make or create a safe security mechanism in order for our money, for our investments, for us and the rest of the people of this province, for the rest of the people in this country, to be safe so they can rely on investments they put away for when they grow up, when they become old or are not able to find a job?

The fragmented regulatory structure puts this province and our country at a competitive disadvantage. I think it’s important to recognize that concern of the financial sector, because we cannot keep going without any security. Recently, in a survey that was conducted, almost 92% of the financial institutions in the province of Ontario and in Canada agreed that there should be one securities system, one regulatory body, for all financial institutions and all provinces. Then every province could follow and there could be easy mobility from province to province.

I still remember a gentleman who bought a company in Alberta and wanted to move it to Toronto. He faced a lot of different terms. The securities commission of Alberta gives companies whatever they want and makes it easy for them to transfer, but the securities commission in Toronto creates different obstacles, not because they want to create obstacles but because the rules and regulations are different from what they have in Alberta or British Columbia.

It would be important to have one system, and companies and financial institutions could move from province to province without any problems. I guess it would create a comfort zone for many different institutions and companies to come to this province and to Canada and invest. All the financial institutions, all the financial companies, all the bank systems and all the people who are interested in this subject are in favour of creating one regulator in Canada in order to control, manage and oversee the conduct of financial institutions in this nation.

Also, the Canadian government agrees with this motion. In our government, under the leadership of our Premier, Dalton McGuinty, and under the leadership of our Chair of Cabinet, Minister Phillips, we’ve been talking about this since we were elected in 2003, in order to create one regulatory body and to invite that regulatory body to have offices in Toronto. It’s a natural choice because we are the engine of the financial institutions in the whole nation; we are the financial engine of the whole country. It would be important. If we strengthen that financial system, that centre will pay back the whole nation, not just the province of Ontario.

As a result of that, the Canadian Securities Transition Office has been established to conduct a study of how we can put all the securities commissions together and how we can create one regulatory body. Most importantly, 10 of the 13 territories and provinces agreed and wanted to send representatives to this body. The federal government has named two appointees to create that transition office. Most importantly, there are two appointees from Ontario. One of them, Bryan Davies, is a former provincial Deputy Minister of Finance. The other, Larry Ritchie, is at present a vice-chair of the Ontario Securities Commission.

Those appointments send a great indication about the talent and skills we have in the province of Ontario and also about the confidence in our province and in the people who work in our province to be elected and to lead the transition system in the nation to create one regulatory body.

I think it’s important to continue to work in this direction. It’s important to create that mechanism in order to create a financial system that is safe and sound for all people.

I know that many people spoke before me on this issue and voiced their concern about fly-by-night organizations from many nations which come to many provinces, establish themselves, grow and appear financially sound and able to give the people who invest with them some kind of great return. Then what happens? They leave, and people lose their money. They try to play on the differences between the provinces by moving from place to place, using the weaknesses in the securities commissions in the provinces to play that game, to establish themselves and, in their mind, not to grow and establish themselves in a professional manner but to take the money of the people who invested with them.

I think our direction is the right approach. I think that if we create that regulatory body, it would be important for the province of Ontario, for Canada and for all the people who invest in many different institutions in this nation.

I think many other provinces would agree with us to have Toronto be the capital, the head office for the regulator body, the one system, because we proved ourselves over the years. We proved ourselves and we sent indications to many different nations around the globe.

I was listening to the finance minister the other day when they had a summit about the banking system and how we can tax the banking system. He stood firm and strong and said, “No. We cannot reward our banking system by imposing on them and forcing them to pay more taxes. We should reward them because they help us as a nation to maintain our financial system, to maintain our infrastructure and to maintain the value of our dollar, which is important for all of us.”

Therefore, when they met, they said no. I guess Canada and Japan said no, because it’s important to reward that financial system, which gives us stability and the support we need in difficult times, and proves not just to Canadians but to the whole globe that our financial system is strong and sound.

Recently, I went to Saudi Arabia. I was in Lebanon, and I was approached by many different people. A guy from Saudi Arabia, who owns a bank—it’s called the Al Rajhi Bank. You know what he said to me? He said that Canada is the best place to invest; he said that the best place to move his institution is Canada. That Al Rajhi Bank is one of the oldest banks in Saudi Arabia, and it’s one of the strongest in the Middle East. They have, under their management, billions of dollars, and they want to come to Ontario. They want to see how they can come, because they heard about this province.

Also, not a long time ago, I was speaking to a gentleman from Lebanon who owns the bank Fransabank, and you know what he said? He is an economist; he was a Minister of Finance in Lebanon for many, many years. He also wants to come to Ontario, because he heard about our economic system. He heard about our financial system. He heard about our security system. But how can we put the whole system together to create some kind of engine or mechanism to comfort not just Canadians, but all people around the globe?

I think the only approach is our approach, which creates one regulated system, one regulator body, and can be adopted not just in Ontario but across the nation, from the territories to the provinces. Also, we’ll open it here in Toronto, because Toronto, especially Bay Street, sends a signal to many different nations around the globe about how important our financial institutions are for our nation, for our currency, for our infrastructure, for our health care and for our growth in this nation.

Therefore, it’s our obligation and duty to continue to be an advocate on behalf of all the people who are investing their savings in our financial institutions for them to be secure, and also to invite all the people who want to enjoy what we have to come and invest without any fear.

It would be important if we created that one regulator body. Also, it would be more important if that regulator body opens its office and is headquartered in the city of Toronto because Toronto, I believe, is the capital of this beautiful province, financially, and also the engine of the whole nation, financially. So it would be a great signal and great respect for the city that protected our economy and protected our financial institutions.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Further debate?

Mr. Garfield Dunlop: I’m pleased to rise this morning and speak to the motion. I will read it once again. The motion is “that the Legislative Assembly of Ontario endorses the need for a strong national securities regulator and endorses the Open Ontario plan to grow our financial services industry by calling on the federal government to recognize Toronto’s role as the third-largest financial centre in North America and therefore locate the new common securities regulator in Toronto where it belongs.”

That’s what the motion calls for. There’s a part of the motion that we can’t agree with, of course, but overall, I wanted to point out that, yes, we would agree with a national securities regulator being located in the city of Toronto.

Right off the bat, we all recognize that Toronto is recognized as Canada’s national financial services centre. We know that it is the headquarters of the five largest banks in our country and a number of branches of foreign banks, and over 1,700 financial services firms are located in the city as well. It’s also the home of the Toronto Stock Exchange, one of the primary stock exchanges we have in North America. According to our data, the sector employs somewhere around 140,000 people. Employment by the financial services sector has consistently been around 9% to 12% of total employment in the province.

I think you can also say that part of the argument for this, of course, would be the fact that Toronto is fairly central in our country, as opposed to the far east or Vancouver, or wherever it may be. It’s safe to say that with our transportation system, airports et cetera, it’s fairly convenient for transportation around North America. All the large banks we have with their headquarters in the city of Toronto are actually actively pursuing business on international markets, both in America and throughout the world, and I think it’s important that we remember that.

So I don’t think it’s any kind of genius thought to think of this motion as though it was a Liberal plan. The reality is that Toronto is already the national leader in financial services, and if we do come up with a national financial services regulator, I think we could assume that the federal government would very seriously consider the city of Toronto. The only place I can see that might be competition to that may be Montreal.

By the way, it’s nice to see that we have a Canadian team in the Stanley Cup semifinals, and I hope the Canadiens go all the way to the Stanley Cup. I’m a Montreal fan, myself. My dad was an adamant Leaf fan, and of course he kind of made us argue back and forth to make the games more interesting in our household. So I became a Montreal fan many years ago, and I’m really happy to see the determination and excitement we see with that in Canada right now.

We, in our caucus, have a problem with one part of the resolution, and we want it removed and would like it removed; I know we’re debating that part right now. I’ll read the section: “... and endorses the Open Ontario plan to grow our financial services industry.” I’m disappointed that that would even be part of this resolution, because it’s basically making it a kind of biased or partisan type of motion, in that this is part of what the Liberal Party has called the Open Ontario plan in their throne speech.

Of course we on this side of the House, at least in our caucus, we do not agree with the throne speech for many, many reasons—we don’t believe the province is going in the right direction—and I’m going to outline a number of those in the next couple of minutes.

I think it’s safe to say that one of the key arguments we’ve had in the House over the last few weeks, dating back to the introduction of the harmonized sales tax, is that this caucus simply cannot agree with it, particularly at this time. There are a number of reasons why we don’t agree with it. One is that in many provinces that have—I think four provinces have introduced the harmonized sales tax—it was a revenue-neutral tax. That means they dropped the provincial sales tax and didn’t give everybody back a wad of money prior to the election—this sort of shenanigans. They actually used the provincial sales tax, dropped it, and all taxes were included on all items.

However, with the tax we have today, we all know that the government accepted around $4 billion from the federal government, and we know it will accumulate at least another $3 billion to $4 billion on top of that, even in the first year. We don’t think that’s good planning in very difficult economic times. If any kind of tax was coming in, we would rather have seen that it definitely would be revenue-neutral, and we know this tax is not. It’s going to be a fairly substantial tax, particularly on people who are low-income earners and seniors. Those are the people I fear most about in my riding.

I can tell you that we have a high percentage of people in the riding of Simcoe North who are over the age of 70. They don’t have any other sources of revenue, and when they get hit with a tax that might cost them another $800, $900, $1,200, $1,500 a year, whatever it may be—when those sorts of things happen, we know we’ve got some problems and we have to be very concerned about that.

The other thing is, the government, in its Open Ontario throne speech and in its budget, continues to talk about the creation of 591,000 jobs. We’ve heard all kinds of numbers tossed around the House, and we’re still trying to get the math clear on exactly what the government refers to. We just don’t see how the Green Energy Act can create 591,000 jobs. If some of the manufacturers were to relocate in Ontario and produce all of the solar panels here, all of the wind-generating turbines here, we can see how there may be a few thousand jobs. But 591,000 jobs is what the government is basing the throne speech on.

This budget shows a long-term plan forecasting up to the year 2017-18. They say at that point they will have the budget balanced using the harmonized sales tax and these 591,000 jobs. However, the 591,000 jobs right now is pie in the sky. They’re assuming that these jobs will come. But if they don’t come, the deficit will not be eliminated in the year 2017-18, and it may be 10 or 15 years after that before it’s done. Who knows for sure?

We know this government has never really stuck close to a throne speech. A clear indication of that has been the way they’ve mismanaged the energy file. When the new government came in in 2003, they had a plan in their platform to eliminate coal-fired generators by 2007. Well, that was three years ago, and the only coal-fired generating plant that has ever been eliminated in the province of Ontario is the one that was set in plan by my colleague the member from Waterloo, Elizabeth Witmer, when she was the Minister of Energy.

That plan did go through, and the government took the credit for it, of course, but I was with her the day she made that announcement at Lakeview generating plant. That’s the only plant where we’ve actually seen it happen. So we’re not able to have a lot of confidence in the government when it comes to forecasting exact dates.

So when someone tells me they’re three years behind in closing down coal-fired generators—and now we know it won’t be until 2015, 2016 or 2017 for those—how can we say that the debt that has been accumulated, the $21 billion this year—and they say they’ll eventually lower it to zero by 2017-18. How can we possibly say they have any kind of a clear forecast on that? I don’t believe that number, and I certainly don’t believe the 591,000 net new jobs that the government talks about.

I hope I’m wrong. I hope there are 590,000 jobs created in Ontario, and I hope that a lot of the young people who are looking for teaching or nursing positions now or the people who have graduated out of community colleges are finding jobs in Ontario and not having to move to Saskatchewan or Alberta or south of the border to find employment.

When we talk about keeping that

section out of the motion—that’s why our party, and I think myself in particular—I could never support a motion that has the Open Ontario plan as part of it. I know the government members believe that they should go along with the Premier’s office and support this kind of a resolution, but we don’t feel that way on this side of the House.

I wanted to talk a bit more on the energy file. When the announcements came a few weeks ago here about the 184 projects the government is planning to sign agreements on with the private sector companies to create new energy programs in the province of Ontario, we’ve already come up with some problems in my riding, and it’s not to do with the wind turbines. We don’t have any wind turbine projects in Simcoe North at this time. It doesn’t really fit into the wind atlas, although we do have a lot of it on Georgian Bay.

However, what has really disturbed a lot of the residents are some of the locations of the new solar farms. Most of them are about 100 acres in size. We’ve got two of them in what we call the old township of Matchedash. Two of them in particular are on good farmland. Even this year, the farmland is under cultivation. The province of Ontario has supplied funding in the past to help put tile drainage on these farms. They’ve grown good crops over the years. But suddenly, out of nowhere, somebody who has a bunch of Tim Hortons doughnut projects in Toronto has bought one of the farms.

He has somehow found a fancy way to lease it to some company from California; it’s a California energy company. Without any indication to the neighbours and without their knowledge, suddenly this plan is being approved on what we would call good farmland. Whether it would qualify under this Ministry of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs program as class 1, 2, 3 or 4, I don’t know. However, it is farmland and it is growing good crops and, as I said earlier, it has been tile-drained accordingly. So it’s difficult for us to support a plan like that.

I guess this argument goes on and on about the change in the government’s plan and how involved the municipal governments are. The government likes to say they are so transparent and they like to say they work closely with their municipal neighbours. However, on this same piece of farmland that got approval for 100 acres of solar, if that same owner was to go to the municipality and say he’d like to put a welding shop on that property, he would need a very strict official plan amendment and a zoning bylaw to actually carry on with that. The neighbours would have full control.

They would be able to voice their concerns at public meetings and follow the public process that we follow through all of our zoning and official plan amendments.

So I really think the plan to move ahead without the transparency and without the approval of the municipal governments has been a step backwards in terms of the transparency and the planning process that we’ve built up over the years in the province of Ontario. Yes, the planning process we have today in Ontario probably includes a lot of red tape, but it does give property rights to people who have bought property in good faith. They have an ability to move ahead and to actually voice concerns on issues around the planning matters in their municipalities.

That’s why people elect their municipal councils: to have an opportunity to go to their council members and voice their concerns on planning issues.

If we’ve gone in this direction, particularly with energy, then I’m very curious about what will happen down the road with things like gravel pits, asphalt plants and waste management facilities. At some point, will they be given approval without the input from the local municipal governments? We know they can be very, very controversial.

Before these solar farms and wind farms are all built, we’re going to see a lot more demonstrations like we saw here a week ago out on the front lawn, when we had 300 or 400 people objecting to the manner in which this has been done.

The idea of making Toronto the national centre for the financial services regulator is a great idea. I’m sure most of the people in the House would have to agree with that. I think if you looked across the country and you talked to the people in Alberta, BC or Manitoba, a lot of those folks too—even the Parliaments there—would probably agree that this is not a bad move. But I don’t think they would agree that the Open Ontario plan is the plan for something that they wouldn’t want to support in a resolution either.

As we look towards the approval of this resolution, I really wish the government would seriously consider the removal of that part of the motion because, as I said earlier, it’s important to us. We, as members of this House, don’t think the throne speech indicated a solid, good vision for the province of Ontario in the foreseeable future, and we certainly can’t support it.

I’d also like to talk a little bit, while I’m on it—if I’ve got a couple more minutes left, Mr. Speaker—about our health care system. We’ve gone through some amazing projects in the last 15, 20 years up in Simcoe county. One of the things I’m most proud of is the fact that we were able to plan and organize, getting through the planning process, the redevelopment and expansion of Soldiers’ Memorial Hospital in Orillia. We had a lot of community input, a lot of community fundraising; the province put in their fair share. We’re very, very proud of this hospital.

You can imagine last week when it came to our attention through the board that in order to balance their books they’re going to have to lay off or do away with 26 nursing positions and close 25 hospital beds—in a brand new facility. This has created an outrage in our community.

When we talk about Open Ontario and we talk about trying to come up with a good health and long-term-care system—here we have a hospital that is at capacity at all times, has an excellent reputation, has won awards for its efficiencies in the past, and now we’re finding out that in order to be more efficient we have to come up with 26 full-time nursing positions being eliminated. That’s unacceptable.

I’ve got to tell you, I’m going to the hospital tomorrow; I go each year during National Nursing Week. Tomorrow I have to face these nurses and I have to come up with answers as to, “Why does this work? Why does it not work?” They think they’re working hard, they think they’re efficient, they think they’re effective, yet somehow the money is not there to pay them and they’re going to be replaced with people who are part-timers.

In my opinion, it will have a negative impact on the hospital, but it has a very negative impact on the morale in the community toward our hospital, because we think it’s been a phenomenal hospital. The province came through with the funding to redevelop it, and now, as we look forward, we don’t know what the future of that hospital is.

How can you shut down 25 beds over a two-year period when the population is growing and when we need every bed available? We know that our community care access files have been cut by up to 30%, and we’ve got a lot of sad stories there.

An Open Ontario vision that the government brags about in the throne speech and in the budget does not fit into our plans as a caucus. We think that Ontarians deserve better than a province that is going to have an accumulated debt of a quarter of a trillion dollars by 2017-18. That’s a debt that our children and our grandchildren will be paying down so we can have some fancy things today. Our grandchildren will be paying those debts off as we look towards their futures. On top of that, we’ve also got to be concerned about the number of jobs that this throne speech has tried to create.

It’s pie in the sky; it’s Disney World; it’s Wonderland. There are just not 591,000 jobs out there. It’s amazing when you say that and you talk about Wonderland and Disney World to these folks. They actually believe it, because they wake up—they’re there half the time. That’s the reality: We are not going to create 591,000 jobs under this Open Ontario plan.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Further debate.

Ms. Cheri DiNovo: Just so those watching at home know what we’re speaking about here, we’re debating a motion that has been put forward by the Minister of Finance for a single national regulator based in Toronto. That, of course, we in the New Democratic Party support. The problem is that this motherhood motion, if I can call it that, comes with a bit of poison pie with it, too—no apple pie here, but poison pie—by also calling upon us to endorse their Open Ontario plan.

The Open Ontario plan is a very nice way of saying that this government has no plan: no plan in terms of moving forward for job creation, no plan in terms of moving forward for housing, no plan moving forward for women, no plan moving forward for poverty reduction—

Mr. Paul Miller: Pensions.

Ms. Cheri DiNovo: No plan moving forward for pensions, no plan moving forward for transit. That’s what I’m going to talk about: the open plan that doesn’t exist.

I also have to say, despite the fact that I’ve got 19 minutes now to say it, that this is an egregious waste of the House’s time. This is a motion that a majority Liberal government is putting before the House, asking us to endorse them going to speak to Mr. Harper in Ottawa. Surely, they can do that without taking up the House’s time; surely there’s more pressing business in the province of Ontario, having lost hundreds of thousands of jobs, coming out of a recession, than to simply tie up the House’s time to endorse or not to endorse, as the case may be, something they can do without us. Come on, are they incapable of doing anything without bringing it to the House? That’s the problem.

Let’s look at Toronto. I’m happy to look at Toronto. I live in Toronto. I love Toronto. I am a born-and-bred Torontonian. Do we want the national securities regulator here in Toronto? Sure, why not? It’s a good thing. We’d also actually like to see the report that came out of this committee looking at regulations, a report that a lot of hard work of a lot of deputants went into, that still isn’t forthcoming. I have had constituents calling saying, “Where’s the report about the securities regulation?”

But first to Toronto. Toronto the centre of financial regulation—not a problem. Toronto, however, is also the centre of poverty and homelessness. That’s something I’m concerned about. Toronto is also the centre of gridlock and greenhouse gas emissions. That’s something I’m extremely concerned about. Do we want Bay Street to do well? We don’t have a problem with Bay Street doing well, but quite frankly we’d like to see Main Street doing well as well.

We’ve had a record number of bankruptcies of small businesses in Toronto. The HST isn’t going to help them. In fact, when the Toronto Association of Business Improvement Areas came to Queen’s Park, this government wouldn’t even meet with them. They’ve dispensed with small business as even something that a cabinet minister needs to look at. Where’s the small business portfolio? It’s gone. It doesn’t exist. No longer is small business represented around the cabinet table.

Small business came here with one purpose: Representing 30,000 small businesses across the GTA, they wanted to tell this government that 85% of their membership was opposed to the HST—opposed to it—because they know, like we know, that for every dollar that’s raised by the HST on the backs of small business and consumers, who can afford it least, $1.16 goes to big corporations. That’s really what the HST is about. That’s what small business knows. This government doesn’t get it.

They also don’t get transit—a $4-billion cut from transit for the city of Toronto. Yesterday, it took me an hour and a half in gridlocked traffic to get from here to my constituency office in the west end of Toronto. As I drove, I passed people standing 30 and 40 deep at TTC stops. That’s rush hour in Toronto right now. What is this government’s response to that? To break a promise. To break a promise for transit. At the same time that they’re posing as a green government, they break a promise to transit.

Oh, they’re building transit; they’re building lines that will take only the wealthy up to the airport, with diesel trains through our neighbourhoods—not stopping to benefit our neighbourhoods—right from Union Station to the airport, burning diesel all the way. They’re willing to do that but they’re not willing to put $4 billion into the lines they promised.

It would be really, really interesting to see the Liberal members—I know the member from Eglinton–Lawrence has stood up, at least in part; at least he’s willing to come and table some motions on behalf of his constituents, even if he editorializes those motions and petitions. But he knows that his constituents want the Eglinton LRT line built. They’ve been waiting 20 years. Jane-Finch residents know, and their member should know, that they want the LRT built. They were promised it. The city of Toronto was promised it. But that’s not going to happen.

When you go to other cities anywhere else in the world and compare their transit systems and the way their transit systems are financed by higher levels of government to Toronto’s, you are sadly, sadly disappointed, and ashamed, I must say, of the inaction of this government on the transit portfolio.

Poverty: Toronto is now the national capital of poverty in Canada. We are the national capital. We have one in six children in Ontario living in poverty. We should be ashamed—ashamed—of that statistic. The 25 in 5: What happened to that? What happened to the poverty reduction plan? Obviously, not much. It doesn’t get a lot of mention, does it, in the Open Ontario plan? This government knows it’s failing on the poverty file. And, quite frankly, a 25% reduction in poverty isn’t good enough. We shouldn’t have poverty in the province of Ontario. We’re one of the wealthiest jurisdictions in the world.

Yet here we are looking at homelessness yet again, a national disaster—it’s never been anything but—in the city of Toronto. We still step over bodies on the street sleeping on grates. Have we become so used to that that we don’t care anymore? That, in fact, is the stance of this government. It doesn’t care anymore about those people.

In—what?—seven years of government, they’ve promised 20,000 new-build units of housing and managed to roll out about 6,000, if that. We can’t even spend the federal dollars that have been delivered to this government on housing. We can’t even get those out the door. That’s how inept this government has been on the housing file.

It’s been so inept that when I put forward my bill on inclusionary zoning, which will be debated again in a couple of weeks, a bill that I must say has garnered incredible support from municipalities across this province—incredible support, a broad range of non-partisan support, I must say, from right to left of the political spectrum among councillors and among municipalities, because they all get that inclusionary zoning is a way of building housing, providing housing, that doesn’t cost a tax dime.

What it does is what jurisdictions across the United States and across the world are doing, and that is to require of our development community that they set aside at least, conservatively, let’s say, 10% of the units that they build, whether housing or apartments, for affordable housing. This could be any number of options. It could be rent-to-own. It could be a myriad of options. My bill doesn’t even specify. All it does is get the province out of the way. That is all it does. It gets the province out of the way so if municipalities want to go the inclusionary zoning route, they are able to.

Now, my goodness, that’s not asking a lot. It is not in any way prescriptive, my bill. All it does is allow municipalities, if they so choose, to bring in inclusionary zoning. My goodness, how revolutionary is that? Yet this government can’t even act on that.

I was sorely disappointed to see in the speech from the throne, in this government’s so-called Open Ontario plan, not one mention of housing—not one mention. I was hoping at least inclusionary zoning would come from this government. No—nothing. They voted for it and they let it go, they let it die, as they always do: Voted for it, let it go, let it die. I’m going to bring it back. I hope they vote for it again.

Quite frankly, the joy of inclusionary zoning is that in a down market, it’s even good for developers, because when you can’t sell those units, at least you can get some return on them if you go the affordable housing route. So, really, we should be on board with inclusionary zoning. That’s the least we could do, never mind the government’s promises, dating back to 2003, to build new-build affordable housing, something that has long been forgotten.

Post-secondary education: In their Open Ontario plan, we have “increasing spaces in colleges and universities for 20,000 students.” Nobody’s going to argue, really, with that. We know why they’re doing it: They are trying to get some money from foreign students into our university systems. But let’s look at what this government has actually done with the post-secondary university file. What they’ve done is ignore it, quite frankly. They’ve ignored it to the tune of us being 10 out of 10 in terms of per capita funding for students. That is a sorry record indeed: 10 out of 10 in per capita funding for students.

We have the highest tuition fees in Canada. We have the highest student debt in Canada. Do you know how many students have talked to me and said, “I wish I had been born in Quebec”? Why can we not get our act together in terms of post-secondary education? This is something that Canada used to be famous for on the international scene. We had university tuition that was affordable. We had good education systems that could be afforded. We didn’t graduate students like they do in the States with $100,000 worth of debt for a BA.

A wonderful young woman who works for me and wants to go to medical school and is working on her masters in public health told me that when she finishes—listen to this. We should be shocked and appalled at this. In a province where half a million Ontarians don’t have family doctors, here’s a young woman who wants to go to medical school, is getting her masters in public health and has a BA. By the time she has finished medical school, her student debt will be—take in your breath, because here comes the figure. What do you think it is?

Mr. Paul Miller: A hundred and twenty thousand.

Ms. Cheri DiNovo: Do you think it’s higher? Do I hear bids? Higher, higher.

Mr. Paul Miller: One hundred and fifty thousand.

Ms. Cheri DiNovo: Her total student debt will be $300,000 to get a medical degree in the province of Ontario.

How many students can even afford to take on that kind of debt? And yet we’re a province in a screaming need for GPs, for family doctors. This is outrageous. This is appalling. This leads, of course, to more money, not less expenditure, down the road. This is, as my granny and all of our grannies would say, penny-wise and pound-foolish. This leads to people in my riding going to the emergency room to get primary medical care because they can’t get a doctor’s care in their community. They have to wait three or four weeks for an appointment. That’s what happens.

That’s penny-wise and pound-foolish, because that’s how much it costs to graduate a doctor in the province of Ontario. It’s outrageous, disgusting and certainly putting us on the road of the American reality, not what we would hope on this side of the floor. The European reality is where post-secondary education in most countries is free. Imagine that—free. When I was in Sweden, the students were concerned that they weren’t being paid enough to go to school. What a difference.

Talking about Sweden, their idea of an open country—and remember they’re smaller than we are here, nine million versus 13 million—is not to force a large company with unionized staff, like Xstrata, away from the province. It is not to invite Samsung and other multinational companies where the profits, let’s say, and we know, will flow from the province out to some other jurisdiction. That is not most European countries’ idea of open for business.

Their idea of open for business is to actually help their indigenous business, their own business, their small business become medium-sized business, their medium-sized business to become large business, and then to export to other jurisdictions. That is a planned, reasonable approach to growing an economy. That is not the Open Ontario plan to growing Ontario.

The Open Ontario plan to growing the province, in terms of jobs, is to invite large multinationals in and to give them every kind of corporate tax break on the backs of an anti-poverty file, on the backs of building housing, on the backs of saddling our students with debt, on the backs of any kind of money for environmental cleanup or green energy, because there’s only a certain amount of tax dollars that we have to spend. If we give it away, if we don’t collect it, we don’t have it to spend on all of the initiatives that we desperately need.

What do they do in other jurisdictions to grow their economies? They invest in buying from that region, as we have suggested they do here—buy Ontario. We have suggested that what they do is invest in Ontario companies, give contracts to Ontario businesses, build Ontario jobs and build green Ontario jobs at that. That’s what we need to do. But that’s not in Open Ontario.

So Open Ontario truly is one of those Orwellian doublespeaks. Because when they say “open,” what they really mean is closed—closed to the poor; closed to the students; closed to women who still make 71 cents for every dollar for a man; closed to those increasingly trying to struggle into the middle class. Now we’re going to hammer them with a flat regressive tax. But yes, there is some truth to Open Ontario.

It’s open to the multinationals: Come in, do what you want, and when the labour is not cheap enough or when the environmental regulations get too onerous, pick up and leave, take your jobs with you and owe nothing to the workers that you leave behind or the communities that you’ve pillaged. That’s Open Ontario.

So again, in the few minutes that I’ve got left to go back to the financial regulations—do we need them? Do we need them in Toronto? We would love them in Toronto, this national regulator. By all means, you have our blessing; go speak to Mr. Harper—as if you need our blessing, on this side of the floor, to speak to the federal government. I mean, surely and hopefully Ontarians are expecting that their government at Queen’s Park does that without the say-so of the entire House and hours worth of debate on the issue.

Do we need tighter securities regulations? Oh, yes; excuse me, yes. But this is a government, remember, that is taking its financial advice from Goldman Sachs. Come on; I mean, incompetent at best, criminal at worst. That’s where they go when they need financial advice, and then they’re talking about securities regulation? It is to laugh. Our own financial criminals, i.e., Conrad Black, have to be persecuted and prosecuted somewhere else: in the United States. It never would have happened here, because, you know, traditionally in the past we have been an open market.

Open market—that’s another truism about Open Ontario, for anyone who wants to rip off investors, and now not only rip off investors, but maybe rip off taxpayers too, if we’re getting financial advice about selling our precious assets from some institution like Goldman Sachs. Again, thank goodness for the Americans on that file, because they prosecute. We don’t; we seek out for financial advice the same companies they’re prosecuting. That’s how incompetent this government is, and that’s how sad it is to be an Ontarian these days.

So should Toronto be the head office? Sure; why not? Is Open Ontario a fallacy? It’s worse than that. And should Toronto also be a place where housing is being built, where inclusionary zoning is the law of the land, where poverty is something that is a distant memory, where women make the same amount of money as men, where daycare is accessible for everyone, where children’s aid societies are funded to do the work they need to, where nurses are being hired and not let go? Yes. Toronto should also be the capital for all of that as well.

And where students can graduate with a degree without being saddled with a mortgage-sized debt for the rest of their lives—yes, Ontario should also be that, and so should Toronto.

Just finally, on the transit file, where a government doesn’t cut $4 billion out of a promise they made to build transit in a city that’s desperate—desperate—for a better transit system—that’s what would make an open Ontario and that’s what would make Toronto a real financial player on the world stage, with an economy that is good for everyone: Main Street as well as Bay Street.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Further debate?

Ms. Helena Jaczek: I’m really pleased to enter into the debate on the motion. I think, as we’ve heard from a number of members, there are certain components of this motion that are absolutely unequivocal, that we can all support. The motion is made up essentially of three parts: the need for a strong national securities regulator, as opposed to the patchwork that we have at the moment; the point that we want to grow our financial services industry—and I cannot believe that my colleagues from the other two parties do not want to actually do that.

They may be quibbling over references to the Open Ontario plan, but surely we all intend to have the strongest financial services industry here in Ontario that we possibly can. The third element of the motion refers to the fact that we all know that Toronto is the most suitable place for the location of this new national securities regulator.

First of all, I’d just like to address the issue of the need for a national securities regulator. We can understand why we do have the 13 regulators across Canada, one for each province and one for each territory: This country is a very vast geographic area, and it was natural, as we were emerging from our pioneer communities, that investment would be local and financial services would be local, but those days are now long gone. Of course, we live in a global economy, and amongst developed nations, we’re really the only one that still has subnational levels of regulation.

I remember, some 15 years ago, when I was doing my masters in business administration at York, we were looking at our financial institutions—something that I had very little knowledge of or, frankly, interest in before that time—and being absolutely astonished that there were 13 regulators. It was certainly self-evident to us that there was a need for a national securities regulator. That was some 15 years ago. I would argue that debating the need for a national securities regulator is clearly long overdue, and if we’re doing it now, we should do it for some length of time. It is worthy of that effort, and it is something that we’ve really seen a glacial pace of progress towards.

It is certainly good that the federal government has put in place a transitional structure looking at the movement towards a national securities regulator, but the kind of motion that we have before us today, hopefully, will prod them to get their business done in as expeditious a manner as possible.

I think we all know that having a strong national regulator will mean that we will eliminate some duplication and some restrictions on information-sharing. This kind of fragmented regulatory structure obviously makes it hard for businesses, certainly coming from overseas, to fathom all the various differences in the regulations from province to province. That leads us to know that any strong national securities regulator will be a competitive advantage for us, and we’ll be able to attract more international investment. It will make things much easier for those investors to come to our country.

It will reinforce our reputation internationally. During our winter break, I was down in Florida, and I talked to many people down there. They were so envious of the very strong regulatory framework that we have as it relates to our financial institutions here in Canada. Clearly, we escaped the worst of the recession because of those kinds of restrictions, and that is very well recognized. Having the national securities regulator, one place to go, will reinforce and add to our already very strong reputation in this particular regard.

Having said all that, we do know that the Ontario Securities Commission has been working very hard over the last couple of years to really promote their mandate. In other words, they have worked hard to promote the integrity and compliance in Ontario’s capital markets. During the past year, in response to the upheavals in the markets, the OSC has even increased the degree of vigilance that it normally proceeds with.

This was a matter of considerable interest for many residents in my riding. Oak Ridges–Markham is a particularly diverse community, and we have a number of people who were following the Ontario Securities Commission’s regulatory process very, very closely, including a federal deputy minister from a finance-related portfolio who was updating me constantly on how the OSC was proceeding.

When you look at the adjudication area, the number of hearing days for matters heard by the commission’s tribunal rose by 48% in the last fiscal year. Investigations increased as well, with investigations of alleged breaches of securities law increasing by 23%.

Of course, enforcement is only part of what the OSC does to maintain market integrity. Preventing economic crimes from occurring is a far more effective way in which to deal with these issues, so prevention is certainly much better than punishment. So the OSC has been making really excellent efforts in terms of compliance there, monitoring disclosure filings by public companies. They’ve conducted compliance reviews of major segments of the investment funds market, including a number of fund managers of money market funds and non-conventional investment funds. This is all to protect investors, of course. So we certainly do have a wonderful base on which to build here in Toronto.

In 2009, our government also made changes to the Securities Act and the Commodity Futures Act to ensure that the province and the OSC have the necessary tools to take immediate action to protect the public interest in the event of extraordinary circumstances involving major market disruption. I think this was certainly a comfort to investors, and a very good step forward.

The OSC just recently, in the last couple of months, created an investor advisory panel that will provide input on the work of the commission, including proposed OSC rules and policies, the OSC’s annual statement of priorities, concept papers and specific issues. In other words, they are developing policies that, again, will better protect investors. We have an excellent base to build upon.

Turning to the fact that our Open Ontario plan is clearly working—including, of course, our very courageous decision to move to the HST on July 1 of this year—I noticed in the Star today how well we’re doing in terms of Canada scoring well in terms of competitiveness:

“Canada ranks second to Mexico and far ahead of the US on a list of tax-friendly countries for business, according to a new report....

“Lower corporate tax rates can be a huge competitive advantage when companies decide where to set up shop....

“The introduction of the HST in Ontario and British Columbia is likely to enhance Canada’s standing in the coming years....”

This is all part of our government’s move to make the financial services industry in Ontario as strong as we possibly can.

Many people have very clearly stated that they believe Toronto is the right place for a national securities regulator. I think it’s worth repeating because this is something that we really should be proud of, knowing that Toronto is a world-class city. Toronto is the business and financial capital of Canada, it is the centre of the nationwide capital market, and it is Canada’s link to international capital markets, which are becoming increasingly global in nature. Toronto is the securities industry capital of Canada, employing more people than in Canada’s next five largest cities combined.

Montreal, Vancouver, Calgary, Ottawa and Winnipeg—Toronto’s industry is larger than all those combined. So though there may be some talk of a move to London as the right place for the home of the regulator on a sentimental basis, it is clear that Toronto is the logical conclusion for the home of this national securities regulator.

Mr. Peter Kormos: I’m partial to Markham.

Ms. Helena Jaczek: Markham obviously would be an excellent choice, too, for the precise venue. We have lots of places to build, and of course within such easy access to Toronto.

The TSX is the eighth-largest equity market in the world based on market capitalization. Toronto is home to Canada’s five largest banks. Actually, just yesterday evening, I was talking to an executive with the National Bank of Canada, and they’re looking at their expansion into the Ontario market with great interest as well. I think we all know that it’s very important to have competition between our banks, and Ontario seems to be attracting that market as well.

Two of the largest 10 global life insurers, plus three of the four largest Canadian property and casualty insurers, also make Toronto their home; 58 pension fund managers, including the CPP Investment Board, and 119 securities firms also call Toronto home. It really goes on and on.

It is the logical conclusion. I believe that this motion addresses three important components, three messages, that we wish to give to the federal government: first of all, finally, a national securities regulator; the fact that we in Ontario want to grow our financial services industry, building on the incredible strong base that we have; and, thirdly, that the logical location is clearly Toronto, or perhaps, I might say, the greater Toronto area, not to leave Markham out of the running as the home for this.

I know that many others want to enter into this very important debate, including members, obviously, from our side of the House. In conclusion, I am totally in favour of this important motion, and I hope that all colleagues from all three parties will support it.

Debate deemed adjourned.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): It being 10:15, this House stands recessed until 10:30, at which time we’ll have question period.

The House recessed from 1016 to 1030.

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

Hon. Harinder S. Takhar: I would like to welcome from the Certified Management Accountants of Ontario a few representatives here today: John Hsu, Merv Hillier, who’s the president and CEO, Aina DeViet, John Forester, Ted Ballantyne, Sharon Armstrong and Lindsay Mack. They are also hosting a reception at 11:45 in room 230, and I would request all members to attend.

Mr. Michael A. Brown: On behalf of our fine page from Plummer Additional, which, as the Speaker would know, is a suburb of Bruce Mines, who’s doing a fine job here in the Legislature, I’d like to introduce his friend Kathryn Laskaris.

Mr. Lou Rinaldi: It gives me great pleasure to introduce some people who are here to witness Stig Tripp, one of our pages, as he’s page leader today. I have with us in the House in the Speaker’s gallery: Harold Tripp, father; Christina Tripp, mother; Paul Tripp, granddad; Margaret Rosback, grandmother; Max Tripp, brother; Catherine Rosback, aunt; and Kelly Cluskey, a family friend. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Mrs. Laura Albanese: I would like to invite my colleagues to welcome Mr. Sergio Chiamparino, mayor of Turin, the first capital of Italy.

The city is preparing, together with the country, to celebrate the 150th anniversary of the unification of Italy.

Mayor Chiamparino is accompanied by Evelina Christillin, president of the Teatro Stabile in Torino; Raffaella Scalisi, head of international affairs for the city of Torino; Anna Martina, manager of communications, tourism and international promotions for the city of Torino; Corrado Paina, executive director of the Italian Chamber of Commerce of Ontario; and Tiziana Tedesco, director of the trade department of the Italian Chamber of Commerce. I welcome them to Queen’s Park.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: I would like to welcome to the Montreal Canadiens all their new fans. Go, Habs, go!

Mr. Tony Ruprecht: I am absolutely delighted to introduce to you the delegation from the government of Valencia and from Labor Solis. They’re here because they’re convinced that Ontario is the place to be to promote partnership with government and partnership with business. They are Mr. Enrique Cosi, Mr. Julian Pascual, Mr. Baldemar Asencio, Mr. Luis Sospedra and Mr. Antonio Penja. Welcome.

Remarks in Spanish.

Mr. Charles Sousa: I would like to introduce, in the members’ gallery, Ms. Marnie Cooper and Mr. John Crawford, both of who are here representing the Scleroderma Society of Ontario. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Hon. Brad Duguid: I would like to introduce members of the International Gas Union who are here today for a tour of the Legislature and some meetings.

Joining us today are Mel Ydreos, from Union Gas and chair of the geopolitics and natural gas task force; Jeff Okrucky, from Union Gas; Ho Sook Wah, from Malaysia; Coby van der Linde, from the Netherlands; Dick de Jong, from the Netherlands; Roberto Gregori, from Italy; Abdul Rahim Mahmood, from Malaysia; Graham Moore, from the United States; Sheik Nadeem Shahryar, from Pakistan; Florijana Dedovic, from Norway; Torstein Indrebø, secretary general of the International Gas Union; Jennifer Durham, from Union Gas; and Matthew Gibson, from Union Gas.

Mr. Garfield Dunlop: I’ve got some different delegations here. I want to say that they’re not in the assembly yet, but a class from Couchiching Heights Public School in Orillia is here, along with John Winchester’s class from Park Street Collegiate Institute.

I have my co-op student from Park Street Collegiate Institute in Orillia, Jessica Clark. She’ll be joining us shortly. She’s here to see Queen’s Park today as well.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): I’d like to take this opportunity, on behalf of the member from Thunder Bay–Atikokan and page Mary McPherson, to welcome her mother, Tracy Shields, and her sister Sarah McPherson, today to Queen’s Park.

We have with us in the Speaker’s gallery today the consul general of the Republic of Croatia in Toronto, Mr. Ljubinko Matešić.

Please join me in welcoming our guests to the Legislature today.

ORAL QUESTIONS

TAXATION

Mrs. Christine Elliott: My question is for the Acting Premier. Yesterday, Premier McGuinty said he expected businesses to lower prices as a result of his HST, but the businesses he runs won’t.

Why would Premier McGuinty expect businesses to lower prices when he isn’t willing to do so himself?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: I think we’ve been pretty clear about it. We announced in the 2009 budget the alcohol pricing, and then in the fall budget, in this book, on page 35, I’ll remind the member what we laid out and what we said. We’re getting rid of two sales taxes—harmonizing with the GST—which affects other outdated fees on alcohol. Therefore, we are bringing clarity to the system—this is right out of the book that was published and distributed in this House—with four policy objectives in mind:

(1) “Maintain the revenue that would be lost in lowering the ... rates on alcohol....

(2) “Mirror the current system as closely as possible and” level the playing field across all distribution channels;

(3) “Generate no net new revenue for the province and ... minimize any changes to consumer prices; and

(4) “Create a structure that would continue to promote social responsibility.”

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary.

Mrs. Christine Elliott: Ontario families are getting a very mixed message here because the Premier keeps saying that businesses will lower their prices when the HST is implemented. But the first test of what he’s telling Ontario families is with the crown corporations he runs. At the same time he’s pressuring businesses to lower their prices, the Premier has directed the LCBO to mark up their prices when the HST comes in.

What makes the McGuinty Liberals think that businesses would lower their prices when they can just follow the Premier’s lead and make consumers pay more?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: We have been very clear in the budget with respect to social reference pricing. We were very clear in the fall statement. We laid it out in this book. It’s on page 35. There are four pages describing what we are doing with that.

Social reference pricing is an important part of helping to ensure that we maintain a system of health care and other supports in terms of financing the challenges associated with alcohol. I would remind the member that her party raised the social reference price some three times on alcohol.

This is an appropriate and balanced policy. We also expect, by the way, that the bars and grills in Ontario that serve alcohol should see a tax cut of some $24 million.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Final supplementary?

Mrs. Christine Elliott: Once again, it always comes down to reading the fine print with this government. What you hear is not necessarily the way it is. Prices on wine and liquor should be coming down after July 1, but Steve Erwin of the LCBO is quoted as saying that you ordered a mark-up in prices to grab back the 4% difference in tax.

Why should Ontario families expect other businesses to do as you say and not as you do?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: Pages 35, 36, 37 and 38 of the budget document outline it. Not only does it say what we’re doing with respect to replacing alcohol fees, it details how it will break down by type; it details how it will break down by revenue change and distribution network.

But here we see the shifty Conservative Party. They try to criticize the HST, which their federal partners support, and then, when you ask them if they will repeal it, they kind of shift around and say, “Well, you know, no.” They used to say that this was the right thing to do; now they say it’s the wrong thing to do.

I’m with the federal member for Whitby–Oshawa, who recognizes the importance of this policy, and with the federal government in Ottawa, who have helped make it happen.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Stop the clock for a moment. Order.

New question.

TAXATION

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: Again to the Acting Premier: Yesterday, Dalton McGuinty said that businesses will lower prices when the HST is implemented. You know that can’t be true because you’re not legislating it as so, so I’ve got a quick question for you—I hope you can answer: Was it the Premier, the Minister of Finance or the Minister of Revenue who called the LCBO to tell them that he was kidding and it did not apply to crown corporations?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: No. We said very clearly in the budget what we are doing on pages 34, 35, 36 and 37. I’d invite the member to read that.

We believe that socially responsible pricing is important, as did the member’s party opposite when they raised it three times. It’s clear, it’s unequivocal and it’s the right public policy to pursue in Ontario. It remains revenue-neutral to the government of Ontario.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: We know for a fact that this HST is not revenue-neutral; it’s a $3-billion tax grab that hurts seniors and small businesses the most.

But I think what’s most confusing about all of this is that they are confusing businesses and consumers based on Dalton McGuinty’s comments just yesterday. He’s telling them to lower prices when he refuses to do so with the businesses that he runs. Those working with the LCBO say that based on the Premier’s HST sales pitch, consumers “should be expecting a reduction” in prices. That is not forthcoming.

Why is the Premier trying to make families believe that the HST will lead to lower prices when this greedy $3-billion tax grab will not?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: I’d invite the member to read the budget and see what we said about the pricing of alcohol in the spring and fall of 2009.

I would refer the member to the Conference Board of Canada, the C.D. Howe Institute and a range of independent organizations that have all said conclusively that the HST will result in lower prices on many goods and services. This is the right policy. Just today, KPMG is out with a report saying that Canada’s competitive tax position in the world has now moved from third to second as a result of this government’s policies.

It’s the appropriate policy. I know the member wants to stick to the old ways and that shifty Tory way of saying one thing and not doing another. Accordingly, this is the right policy for Ontario’s future.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Stop the clock. The finance minister used that term once, and the second time, on reflection, I don’t think it is parliamentary. I would ask him to withdraw that comment.

Hon. Dwight Duncan: I’ll withdraw it.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you.

Final supplementary?

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: This Acting Premier, the real Premier and his revenue minister can continue to cite all the third party reports they want, but their own actions show that the prices will not come down after the HST is implemented. They know the truth. They should tell this chamber the truth.

Industry insiders say the McGuinty Liberals want to “preserve government revenue … it’s not about social responsibility; it’s all about revenue.” The HST is a greedy tax grab after all.

My final question: Why won’t you give Ontario families another cleansing moment of truth and just admit that this is going to be a $3-billion tax grab that seniors, small businesses and middle-class families are going to be hosed by?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: I take the word of the C.D. Howe Institute. I take the word of a whole group of individuals who actually put their name on what they’re saying, not some anonymous industry source.

If that member and her party are so interested in lowering prices, why won’t they support us on lowering drug prices, instead of standing up for the big drug interests in Ontario?

This tax package is right for Ontario’s future. It is right for the future of this country. That’s why that member’s federal party supports this. It is right for the people of Ontario. It will create jobs, raise incomes and raise capital investment. It’s the right thing to do for a better future for Ontario.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): There are a number of members who want to participate and it would be much more helpful to the Speaker if they were participating from their own seats.

New question.

TAXATION

Mr. Peter Tabuns: My question is to the Acting Premier. Today, the Toronto Star reminded us that the LCBO will not be passing on a tax cut July 1. Consumers won’t benefit from lower prices. If consumers won’t see savings passed through at the government’s own liquor store, why should they expect any other company to pass on HST savings?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: Again, a point to the member: We spoke quite at length about this last November. It’s right there. It outlines not only what the policy is, but our commitment to the social reference pricing for alcohol.

I’m delighted to participate in the debate around this, and that’s why we spelled it out very clearly last November. If you and your party haven’t had a chance to read the details—and it’s in the front end of the book—that’s unfortunate, because if you look at the whole package, if you look at what the independent sources say, if you look at what anybody without a partisan hat on says, this is the right policy to pursue for Ontario, the right policy to pursue for Canada. It will create jobs, raise capital investment and raise family incomes.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Mr. Peter Tabuns: It’s a shame that the minister missed the question. The thing is, Minister, I’ve been listening to the response of the government for a while about this issue. Time after time, we’re told that, in fact, prices will come down. That’s one of the saving graces of the HST. You can wrap yourself in the budget flag as much as you want, but why should consumers believe that oil, gas and hydro companies will pass their savings on to the public if you don’t do it yourself?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: I remind the member again that it’s actually the C.D. Howe Institute that says that. TD Economics, the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives, Hugh Mackenzie and Mothers Against Drunk Driving support this policy. It was clearly defined in the budget. It is the right policy, just as the HST is the right policy for Ontario. It’s backed up by independent analysis. Independent analysts universally agree that it will create jobs, raise incomes and raise capital investment. It’s the right policy for a better future for Ontario.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Final supplementary?

Mr. Peter Tabuns: What’s really happening here? The government says families won’t pay more because of the HST, but it turns out the average Ontario family will pay $800 a year more. The government says its tax cuts and credits will make the HST pain go away magically, but it turns out that families will end up $470 a year behind. The government says businesses will pass on savings, but it turns out that even the system that you own, the LCBO, won’t be passing on those savings. Your claims are falling apart on the affordability part of your program. Why should we believe anything you say about the HST when you can’t deliver on your own government-owned system?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: We chose a deliberate policy with respect to the social reference pricing of alcohol. It’s clearly detailed.

I would remind the member what TD Bank’s economists reported: About 80% of the expected total cost savings will be passed along immediately in the first year that the HST comes into effect, with that ratio eventually reaching 95% by year three, and with the full cost savings of these firms to take up to six years to feed through to consumers.

This policy is absolutely the right policy for the future of this province. It is about creating new jobs. It is about raising capital investment. It is about raising family incomes. That’s why we’re proceeding with it. It’s right for Ontario today, but, more importantly, for a better future for all Ontarians.

HOSPITAL GOVERNANCE

M me France Gélinas: Ma question est pour la ministre de la Santé et des Soins de longue durée. Yesterday the Minister of Health said that her ministry had no role in the Ontario Hospital Association’s development of new, somewhat controversial bylaws, yet this morning media reports quote insiders saying that she did. Can the minister clear the air and tell Ontarians who is telling the truth?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: Let me be very clear: The OHA is an association of hospital organizations. They draft bylaws that are a template for hospitals to accept or modify as they wish. It is the hospital board that determines the bylaws of that hospital. This is a conversation that’s happening among the hospital sector, and I think that’s where the conversation belongs.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

M me France Gélinas: I guess from this answer that the ministry had nothing to do.

When I travelled across the province with the Ontario Health Coalition, attending health care town halls in many of the communities hardest hit by service reductions, I frequently heard from physicians. Physicians talked about the impact of emergency room, physiotherapy and surgery closures and cutbacks. Physicians saw first-hand how these cuts were impacting their patients, and they felt they had an obligation to speak out for their patients.

Under these new bylaws, physicians may no longer have a voice. Does the minister think that muzzling physicians will benefit Ontario’s patients?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: Let me repeat: In Ontario we have a system of hospitals where local boards govern the hospitals. We are expanding the role of those boards with our new Excellent Care for All Act. We will add the responsibility for ensuring ever-improving quality in our hospitals through that legislation. But it is up to the boards to determine what is included in their bylaws. The Ontario Hospital Association is an association of those member hospitals.

What I can say, though, is that when I announced the Excellent Care for All bill, I was joined at the podium by representatives from the Ontario Medical Association, the Registered Nurses’ Association, and the Ontario Hospital Association. We are at our best when we all work together, and that is the culture that we are building within the health care sector.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Final supplementary.

M me France Gélinas: It is concerning that the government seems to have no problem when a new system of regulation limits the free speech of physicians, physicians who want to speak up for quality care for their patients, but when it comes to bringing full transparency and accountability to our hospitals, then the same ministry stalls.

Privacy Commissioner Cavoukian urged this government to bring the hospitals under freedom-of-information requests. She did that in 2004, but the ministry is not moving. The NDP has long told the government that this must happen. Even the Ontario Hospital Association wants this to happen.

So here we have a minister who’s prepared to let physicians be silenced and who refuses to bring hospitals under freedom of information. What happened to this minister’s quest for transparency and accountability?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: Make no mistake about it: We are absolutely committed to improving transparency and accountability throughout government and in the health care sector.

I’m pleased that the Ontario Hospital Association has suggested that we take a look at allowing freedom of information for hospitals, but it’s very important we get this right. That’s why we’re working with our partner organizations: the Information and Privacy Commissioner, the Ontario Hospital Association and their member organizations. We need to work together to get this right. There are nearly 160 hospitals in this province. They have very sensitive personal health information, and it’s very important to me, as we move forward in improving accountability and transparency, that we are very cognizant of the privacy issues.

TAXATION

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: My question is for the Minister of Revenue. Yesterday, we cited a May 2009 KPMG Canada report that says Dalton McGuinty’s HST will make Ontario patients pay more to get less health care. When the Premier struggled for the answer on his HST, he handed the question off to Minister Wilkinson, who said he had read the KPMG report. I’m glad he’s got it in his hand right now because then he can answer this question: Why would you make up that the KPMG report said the net impact of the HST on doctors will be small when the report says no such thing?

Hon. John Wilkinson: I want to thank my friend for the question.

I do have the report, and I say to the member from Whitby–Oshawa—she was talking about an analysis done by someone who worked for KPMG, and I was referring to the report prepared by KPMG dated June 29, 2009, which I read when it came out, I might add. What it says is that for a typical, unincorporated family physician, the tax costs of operating a practice will increase by $1,488 when the income that they report for taxes of that practice—that’s just their income, the profit to the doctor; not the total cost—was $157,000. On $157,000, if we’re talking about $1,400, that doesn’t seem to be a large increase to me.

So what it says here is that there is an impact—because we don’t charge HST, GST or PST on health services that are provided by the public system, that are funded by the public system—and that doctors understand we need to do something to ensure that we have the revenue base to afford the finest—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: I’ll stick with the analysis that was given to the member for Whitby–Oshawa than the analysis given by the Minister of Revenue any day. He should stick to the report.

Minister Wilkinson has been hanging around with Dalton McGuinty a little too long. The Premier’s bad habits are starting to rub off on you, my friend.

You said—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Order. Minister of Community and Social Services.

Please continue.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: I apologize, Mr. Speaker, for getting under their skin so early on a Thursday morning.

You said KPMG reported on the net impact of the HST for doctors when they did not. You said the report is dated; it is less than a year old. You said KPMG found that the overall impact of the HST will be “somewhere in the neighbourhood of 1.6%,” but the report did not say that.

No wonder the Liberal caucus is worried over there. If Dalton McGuinty and his top HST salesmen are making up KPMG findings on the HST, the big question is, what else are they making up?

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): I’d just ask the honourable member to withdraw that comment.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you.

Minister?

Hon. John Wilkinson: I want to correct the record. I thought yesterday it was 1.6%; it’s actually less than 1%. So, absolutely, I thought I’d be a bit conservative in my estimate and make sure I was a bit on the high side when I had to remember something that I had read in July of last year.

You have to understand, on this side of the House we have a plan to attract $47 billion worth of more investment and get 591,000 people back to work. On the other side, they have no plan. Their plan is, don’t change—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): The member from Oxford will please come to order. The member from Renfrew knows the rules.

Minister.

Hon. John Wilkinson: We reject the twins of the status quo over there who say that we should just hang on to the status quo though the world has changed. We reject your leader, who I’ve said is “Two-tax Tim.” He believes there should be two taxes in this province when it comes to sales tax. There should just be one.

I want to thank John Baird, Prime Minister Harper, Jim Flaherty and so many Conservatives who understand that this is the right thing to do—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

ONTARIO PROVINCIAL POLICE

Mr. Peter Kormos: My question is to the Attorney General. Why has the Ministry of the Attorney General instructed its lawyers to withdraw from their representation of SIU director Ian Scott in the Minty and Schaeffer application?

Hon. Christopher Bentley: As I believe I said the other day, it is common practice for lawyers employed by the government to assist in the representation of independent agencies when they are before courts and tribunals. There arose an issue in this particular case about the lawyers representing that party, and rather than have the issue focus on the lawyers, the lawyers are withdrawing. SIU will retain independent representation so the issues before the court can be the issues that should be before the court, not the lawyers.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Mr. Peter Kormos: The SIU is an agency of the Ministry of the Attorney General. The Ontario Provincial Police Association has blasted the Ministry of the Attorney General for its legal assistance to Director Scott. Is that why the AG lawyers have been pulled from the case, but only with respect to Mr. Scott and not Fantino?

Hon. Christopher Bentley: No. As I indicated, I believe, in answer to my friend’s question a few days ago, the government has taken no position on the matter before the court involving the SIU and the other parties. The lawyers were there to assist the independent agency. The SIU is independent. It makes its decisions independently. It does not take instructions from the Ministry of the Attorney General or the government.

In order for the issues before the court to remain the focus of the court’s proceedings, the government lawyers are withdrawing. The SIU will retain its independent counsel so the focus can remain on the issues and the proceedings can continue in that fashion.

NOT-FOR-PROFIT CORPORATIONS

Mr. Charles Sousa: My question is for the Minister of Consumer Services. Yesterday, the minister introduced the Not-for-Profit Corporations Act. I understand that this act, if passed, would provide a modern legal framework for not-for-profit corporations.

The minister said yesterday that the not-for-profit sector is vibrant. I know first-hand that in my riding of Mississauga South there are several not-for-profit organizations doing great work. Just recently, the Compass drop-in centre in my riding joined forces with the Mississauga Food Bank to provide even greater services for residents, and the Lakeshore Corridor Community Team does incredible work connecting people who need help with those who can provide help in goods and services.

Why is the minister introducing new legislation to govern these organizations? What’s in it for them?

Hon. Sophia Aggelonitis: Thank you very much to the honourable member for the question. He’s right: The not-for-profit corporations in Ontario really are a vibrant sector, and they told us that the act was out of date and that it wasn’t useful to them. In fact, it was very old. The last time that this act was even worked on was in 1953, which is 57 years ago.

If this act is passed, it will help our not-for-profit sector. There’s 46,000 of them all across Ontario. They’re worth $50 billion in revenue each and every year, and they employ almost one million people in this sector.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Mr. Charles Sousa: Again, to the Minister of Consumer Services: I’m interested to hear how the Ministry of Consumer Services came to the conclusion that the legislation needed to be revised. Not-for-profit corporations have limited resources, and I’m concerned that this will create more administration for the not-for-profit sector.

As a past president of the Federation of Portuguese Canadian Business and Professionals, I know the challenges that not-for-profits face. In south Mississauga, in my office, we’re working with a group called Windfall, which collects new clothing from manufacturers and then distributes it to the most vulnerable. They are currently working on expanding into my community, and we look forward to welcoming them.

Can the minister tell the House how the proposed legislation would affect the administration burden of not-for-profits, and did the minister seek their feedback before introducing the bill?

Hon. Sophia Aggelonitis: Thank you again to the member for the question.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Order. Members will please come to order.

Minister?

Hon. Sophia Aggelonitis: Thank you very much to the member for Mississauga South for the question. In fact, we are seeking more feedback from different sectors for the new act.

The new act, if passed, would simplify and lighten administrative burdens for many not-for-profit organizations. In fact, it will do three things. It will simplify the incorporation process, it will enhance corporate governance and accountability, and it will become consistent with other jurisdictions like the province of Saskatchewan and the federal government.

If passed, it will help not-for-profit corporations, and we really look forward to working with all of them.

LONG-TERM CARE

Mrs. Christine Elliott: My question is for the Minister of Health. Three years ago, Premier McGuinty launched the aging-at-home strategy to take pressure off emergency rooms, alternative level of care beds and long-term-care waiting lists by helping Ontario seniors live in their own homes. But after three years and a quarter of a billion dollars spent, pressure on emergency rooms is up 12% and there’s been no improvement in alternative level of care beds. Wait-lists for long-term-care beds have doubled since the McGuinty Liberals took office.

How did you manage to spend a quarter of a billion dollars on an aging-at-home strategy with no results?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: Let me tell you that supporting increased access to urgent care, bringing down wait times in emergency departments and making sure that people who are in hospital but should be and could be in the community are all very high priorities and pressing problems in our health care system.

There’s no mistaking the reality that we have currently. Approximately 17% of people in our hospitals don’t need to be in hospitals; they could be better served in the community. The aging-at-home strategy has been a resounding success in that it has allowed community organizations to be supported to keep people in their homes longer. It proves to be a stubborn problem, but having that local flexibility through aging-at-home dollars—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mrs. Christine Elliott: This is a huge problem. The McGuinty Liberals like to boast about how much more they’re spending, but when it comes to the actual results they’re getting, they are pretty quiet about that because the fact is that nothing is happening.

An order paper question signed by the former health minister, David Caplan, proves that 97% of the long-term-care beds opened on your watch were actually created by the Ontario Progressive Conservatives under our term. Under the McGuinty Liberals’ watch, here are some stats: The number of Ontario seniors waiting for a long-term-care bed has doubled from 12,846 people in 2003, to 25,206 people in 2010.

So if the money you have invested didn’t go to improving results, where has it gone?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: We are very focused on improving care for people who are at the stage in life where they need extra supports. We are of the firm belief that, while long-term-care homes are the right choice for many people, there are many others who could, with the right supports, stay in their own community.

I can tell you that our community care access centres, our LHINs and our hospitals are all working together to tackle this difficult problem. The aging-at-home strategy is an important part but not the total part of the solution when it comes to finding the right continuum of supports, the right range of supports in our communities. As I say, this is a problem that we are tackling head on.

LABOUR DISPUTE

M me France Gélinas: Ma question est pour le premier ministre adjoint. I want to quote from a letter from Ken Lewenza, the president of the Canadian Auto Workers, to the Premier about the labour dispute in Sudbury:

“I urge you to work with the United Steelworkers union and this employer to get back to the bargaining table to reach a fair and equitable settlement. I would also urge your government that if Vale Inco continues in their attempts to put replacement workers in this community, you must immediately bring in anti-scab legislation to prevent these types of actions.”

I want to know if the Deputy Premier agrees with Ken Lewenza. Does he support anti-scab legislation?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: Our government believes that we need to find a solution to the ongoing labour dispute. I know that the member for Sudbury, Mr. Bartolucci, the Premier and the Minister of Labour have all been very active. The Ministry of Labour continues to have available and ready the resources needed to help bring those parties together.

I think we all agree that the sooner this labour dispute is resolved at the bargaining table, the better it will be for the community of Sudbury, for the workers involved directly in the strike and, indeed, for all Ontarians.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): I’ll remind the members once again that interjections are often healthy to the debate, but it’s much more acceptable to the Speaker that those interjections come from the members’ own seats.

Supplementary.

M me France Gélinas: My question was about anti-scab legislation, and this answer was what I would say is as clear as mud.

I’d like to read another quote to the Deputy Premier, and it goes as follows: “Obviously, the government is saying that it advocates and supports the use of scabs in Ontario, an absolutely terrible, extreme position that thoughtful commentators and thoughtful jurisdictions anywhere cannot agree to.”

Do you want to know who said that? It was the Deputy Premier, Mr. Dwight Duncan, while sitting in opposition.

Does the Deputy Premier still support anti-scab legislation?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: With respect to the very difficult situation in Sudbury, we are bringing all the resources of the government to bear to try to get the two parties to resolve this very difficult circumstance. That’s what’s first and foremost in our minds: getting a resolution to this situation as quickly as possible. It is a difficult situation which we continue to monitor very carefully.

As I, again, remind the House, the member for Sudbury, Mr. Bartolucci, the Premier and others—the Minister of Labour—are all working hard to find a solution to this difficult situation, which has been going on for far too long.

PHARMACISTS

Mrs. Liz Sandals: My question is for the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care. Recently, the pharmacy associations said they agreed with our reforms and the need to eliminate professional allowances, although this week in my riding, they continue to target seniors with misinformation and drop flyers at every home. However, my constituents are hoping they will agree, especially after hearing that we pay up to five times more for drugs in this province compared to the US. It’s clear that about 70% of the $750 million paid in so-called “professional allowances” does not go toward direct patient services.

This money would be much better spent on more health services, specifically more low-cost drugs for Ontarians.

Could the minister please tell this House how the money saved through our drug reforms will benefit pharmacies and patients?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: While others are putting their energy into a multi-million-dollar American-style campaign of fearmongering and misinformation, we are putting our energy into getting lower drug prices for the people of Ontario. Every penny we save will go back into the health care system, providing better front-line care and providing access to more drugs for more people.

We are also committed to supporting pharmacists. That’s why we propose to increase dispensing fees to pharmacists for the prescriptions they provide under the Ontario drug benefit plan by up to $4 for those in rural and underserviced areas; $1 for all pharmacies. We’re also going to be compensating pharmacies directly for those vital services that front-line pharmacists provide.

This is the right thing to do.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Mrs. Liz Sandals: My constituents will be very happy to hear about the steps that we’re taking to deliver the best care to Ontarians. I’m also happy to hear that drug cost savings will eventually lead to access to more drugs.

I know we often send out notices to pharmacists about new drugs being added to the formulary, and I know that Ontarians look forward to more of these updates adding drugs going out. I understand that there’s also a special drug access program that patients can apply for in exceptional circumstances. This often occurs for serious illnesses that require very expensive drugs, and all of us deal with these requests in our constituency offices.

I understand the government’s new plan includes lower costs for drugs and an end to professional allowances, but can the minister please provide more details?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: It is our proposed reforms that will make more formulary updates possible. Just last month, we announced a number of new drugs that would be added to the formulary, drugs that treat people with hypertension, high blood pressure, Parkinson’s disease, HIV, and other conditions.

The exceptional access program is a program that allows physicians to apply for drug funding for patients in exceptional circumstances. Last year, Remicade was the most frequently requested drug in the exceptional access program. Over 2,000 people with Crohn’s disease or other conditions such as rheumatoid arthritis benefited, at a cost to the government of $44 million. The savings for that individual would be perhaps $20,000.

The savings in our proposed reforms will allow us to add more—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

ANIMAL PROTECTION

Mr. Frank Klees: To the Deputy Premier: This morning the chair of the OSPCA announced that they have put a stop to the mass euthanasia plan at their York region shelter. To his credit, Rob Godfrey, the chair, admitted that they got it wrong, and they want to make it right. They’ll now be testing animals individually and treating them individually.

Will the Deputy Premier now admit that his government got it wrong too—that by washing their hands of this issue, and not insisting on a second look at this plan, that more than 100 animals were in fact euthanized? Will he agree with me that what’s needed is a full investigation to determine how this crisis developed and who was responsible?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: I thank the member for his question. The minister responsible acted in the best interest of all concerned. He spoke, was at ongoing discussions with the OSPCA, which is an independent organization—it is defined that way in legislation. It’s a terrible situation, and I think people across the province shared the concern of the member opposite with respect to what was happening with the animals. The OSPCA has shown itself capable of managing these situations. It is defined in legislation that they are independent; it is their role.

The minister responsible had an ongoing dialogue, as I understand it, with the OSPCA. Our government welcomed the decision they took this morning, and we look forward to their continuing appropriate stewardship of this situation and, indeed, many other difficult situations.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Mr. Frank Klees: The minister should have intervened when I first called on him to do so. Instead, he washed his hands and claimed that he was neutered by his own legislation, claimed that as a result of legislation that this government passed, he had no authority. Will the Deputy Premier now agree that his legislation got it wrong; that what is needed is a change to legislation; that there in fact is proper government oversight of agencies such as this? Will he agree to work with us to bring in legislation that will provide the proper oversight for organizations such as this to ensure circumstances like this will never happen again?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: We have followed the legislation as it is defined. The government always welcomes discussions about legislation, in this case, whether the oversight provisions are adequate. We believe they are. We have confidence in the OSPCA. Again, the OSPCA has taken, in my view, the appropriate decision this morning. We continue to rely on them for their expert judgment. The legislation is premised, as I understand it, on the need to have veterinarians and other professionals make these decisions. The legislation’s premise, I believe, is appropriate.

I believe that this government will continue to work with the OSPCA and others who have animal welfare interests at heart and continue to work with—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

MINING INDUSTRY

Mr. Gilles Bisson: My question is to the Minister of Northern Development, Mines and Forestry. Last week, you were at that FONOM meeting. At that particular meeting, there were many questions in regards to the whole issue of processing ores in Ontario. In that particular bear-pit you were involved in, you alluded to how your government was going to ensure that in fact refining and smelting happens out of the Ring of Fire. How, pray tell, are you going to make that happen if we don’t have the legislative force to make it happen, knowing that companies have already indicated that they’re not going to be processing ore in Ontario?

Hon. Michael Gravelle: I appreciate the question. It was great to be at FONOM. I was there with my colleagues the Minister of Energy and Infrastructure, the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing, and the Minister of Natural Resources. We had a great opportunity in the bear-pit to discuss those questions.

As for the Ring of Fire, we all know what an exciting economic development opportunity it is. We also know that we need to manage this process well. Certainly, we have every intention, when and if we move forward with this process, to be sure that we get the best value-added opportunities there, which include processing and refining the product that comes out of that ground in the province of Ontario.

Those discussions are ongoing. I’m certainly having discussions directly with the companies that are involved in this process, as we’re having discussions with the First Nations and, obviously, other stakeholders involved.

We are very committed to this, and it’s important for you to know that. We are very optimistic that indeed—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: I heard the word “committed” and I heard the word “discussion,” all of which didn’t mount up to anything when it came to stopping the closure of the Xstrata refinery-smelter in the city of Timmins. Why should we have any more confidence in your government, when you are not able to hang onto the very refinery-smelter that is operating in Ontario now, to do a better job when it comes to ensuring that at the very least, when the Ring of Fire goes forward, refining and smelting continue in Ontario? Why should we have any confidence in you?

Hon. Michael Gravelle: As the member knows very well, we have an extraordinary government-wide commitment to the Ring of Fire development. It’s part of our Open Ontario plan. In our budget we made commitments related to $45 million for skills development and also the hiring of a Ring of Fire coordinator. This is a long-term, complicated process but one that is going to provide us with some extraordinary economic opportunities.

Indeed, we recognize that one of the challenges will be making sure that those processes, in terms of the value-added opportunities, take place. Those are the discussions we’re having now. We look forward to working with all of the stakeholders. I’ve got meetings with the companies that are involved with this.

This is something that we recognize as one of our responsibilities, certainly our ministry’s responsibility, to see the economic opportunities. The thousands of jobs that will be coming forward as a result of this will happen as a result of our government’s commitment to the Ring of Fire development.

TAXATION

Mr. Khalil Ramal: My question is for the Minister of Revenue. Minister, the London area has benefited from the good jobs which are generated by the manufacturing industry, like 3M, General Dynamics Land Systems, Trojan, Purifics and many others. As Ontario recovers from the global recession, we need to become more competitive to ensure that investment and jobs continue to come to ridings like London–Fanshawe.

Yesterday, KPMG released a special report on tax competitiveness which found Canada the second-most competitive jurisdiction out of 10 countries worldwide. Greg Wiebe, KPMG’s managing partner, said, “The upcoming harmonized sales tax contributed to Canada’s improved ranking in this year’s report.”

Can you tell me, Minister, how this is going to benefit London and Ontario?

Hon. John Wilkinson: I want to commend my friend for understanding that what London needs is 21st-century jobs. That’s what the good people of London–Fanshawe and the people in London need. That’s what all of our communities need.

We have, of course, Dr. Jack Mintz, who talked about the number of jobs, but is that being confirmed by others in the marketplace? I have some quotes:

The HST “will mean more investment in the province, and more jobs” says Telus.

HST “savings will help to preserve jobs in Ontario allow companies to grow in the future,” says the Canadian Chemical Producers’ Association.

“A single sales tax will save jobs,” says the Railway Association of Canada.

“The single most important step that can be taken to boost the provincial economy and create job opportunities” is the HST and our tax reforms, says Jayson Myers, president, Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters.

“This is the most effective tax change to stimulate investment and job creation,” says Roger Martin, the dean of the Rotman School—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary.

Mr. Khalil Ramal: The Conference Board of Canada released their quarterly provincial outlook report this week. The report states that Ontario will lead all other provinces this year in economic growth, at 3.8% this year and 3.7% next year.

TD Canada Trust, which employs a large number of people locally, provides financial services, and Bell Canada provides good jobs in the communications industry in the London area. Bell Canada has said that the implementation of the single sales tax structure in 2010 means Bell can accelerate its investment in the province of Ontario for next year.

Minister, the HST means good jobs for London–Fanshawe and across the province of Ontario. Can you tell me, and tell the Conservatives and the NDP why they are opposing the HST and why they are stirring the pot and scaring the people of this province?

Hon. John Wilkinson: I want to thank Bell Canada for believing in this province, believing in your community and understanding that there is a brighter future, but it requires a number of things.

First, it requires a government that understands that our businesses are in an increasingly competitive global economy. We have to do our part by ensuring, as the Conference Board has said, that we are one of the most competitive jurisdictions in the world. We set the conditions, but it is up to the private sector to make those investments in their productivity, make those investments in their people and make those investments to attract the type of work and jobs that our children and our grandchildren need.

That’s why we will not listen to the proponents of the status quo over there who say that the best thing we can do is nothing. That’s why on this side of the House we know there is something we can do. We reject the do-nothing opposition. On this side of the House, we are committed to doing what’s required to make sure we—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

NURSES

Mr. Garfield Dunlop: I did want to indicate that Caffy Pinnell’s grade 5 class from Couchiching Heights Public School is here now.

My question today is for the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care. Minister, I’d like to read a quote from Ms. Sandra Tansely, president of the Ontario Nurses Association at Soldiers’ Memorial Hospital in Orillia: “Registered nurses are an endangered species, and if we do not do something about this, they will become extinct.

“Do you know that across the province, health care facilities are reducing the number of registered nurses and reducing the hours of nursing care so vital to patients’ well being?

“Do you know that as registered nursing hours are reduced your health is put at risk?”

Minister, do you agree or disagree with the statement by Ms. Tansely?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I completely disagree with the statement. We have made some very important investments in improving the availability of nurses, the supply of nurses and the scope of practice of nurses across the province. In fact, this is Nursing Week, so we’re all very focused on the important role that nurses play in our health care system.

We have more than 10,000 more nurses working in Ontario today than when we took office in 2003. Nurses are taking on new roles in the health care system. Nurse practitioner-led clinics are providing primary front-line health care to people in the province, and we’re expanding the number of nurse practitioner-led clinics.

This afternoon, I’m going to the de Souza Institute, where I’ll be meeting with nurses who are playing an expanded role in the treatment of cancer patients—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. Garfield Dunlop: I will be visiting Soldiers’ Memorial Hospital tomorrow to accompany nurses during national Nursing Week. I do this each year at a different location in my riding. You are aware that the citizens of Ontario have been hit with the health premium and the $1-billion eHealth boondoggle, and now face the tax grab of the HST on July 1. Up our way, community care access files have been cut by 30%. This amounts to billions and billions of dollars.

Can you tell me how I should respond to the fact that a week ago, the hospital announced the elimination of 26 nursing positions and the closing of 26 beds in a hospital that just completed a program that has taken the last 15 years to redevelop and expand? I’m going to have to give those answers tomorrow to those nurses at that hospital.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: What I’m going to suggest to the member opposite is that, when he is visiting Soldiers’ Memorial Hospital, he ask about the nursing graduate guarantee program. It’s a terrific program, an expression of our confidence in nurses in this program. My understanding is that, actually, 39 nursing graduates have received their first full-time job through this program at Soldiers’ Memorial Hospital.

The future of nursing is very, very bright indeed in this province. I also would like you to maybe ask about the RNAO’s position on what our government has done when it comes to nursing in this province. They say that this government should be congratulated for the investments we’ve made in nursing.

I wish you all the best on your Take your MPP to Work Day. I know that many of my colleagues are doing the same, to learn about the important work that front-line nurses do.

HOSPITAL FUNDING

Mr. Michael Prue: My question again is to the Minister of Health. In March, the Ottawa Hospital signed an agreement with nurses, orderlies and other health professionals who make that hospital work. That same month, the Minister of Finance stood in his place during the budget deliberations and said that all collective agreements would be honoured. Last week, the hospital announced that they could not honour their agreement with the workers because of this government’s cuts to hospitals.

My question: Why is this government putting patient care at risk by urging hospitals to renege on agreements that they have signed and this government guaranteed?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: There is no question that we are facing financial challenges in this province. We have a deficit that all of us would agree is too large. We need to get back to a strong fiscal footing. We need to ask all of us—all of us, frankly, who are paid by taxpayers—to take a bit of a pause when it comes to increases in our compensation. I think it’s the right thing to do.

I know that people who work in the health care system have seen the impacts of governments choosing to slash programs, to cut spending and to open collective agreements. Our government is taking a much more thoughtful and fair approach.

All our partners in health care need to do their part to ensure that our health care system is strong for future generations.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Mr. Michael Prue: To the contrary: I think this government has created a mess at the Ottawa Hospital that will put patients at risk. The nurses, orderlies and health professionals who make the hospital work had a signed agreement. This government guaranteed that that signed agreement would be honoured, and now the hospital is being pushed by the government to rip it up. The result will be uncertainty for patients and long legal battles, or both. Why is the minister putting patient care at risk by forcing hospitals to rip up agreements with nurses, orderlies and other professionals—an agreement that you guaranteed, during the budget deliberations, would be honoured?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I have to take exception to the member opposite’s words that things are a mess at the Ottawa Hospital. Indeed, the Ottawa Hospital is a very, very fine hospital and is a leader in this province when it comes to improving quality of care for patients. I do hope that the member will clarify his remarks. The Ottawa Hospital, under the very, very capable and proud leadership of Jack Kitts, is one of the finest hospitals in this province.

This government has been a strong supporter when it comes to funding at the Ottawa Hospital. In fact, we’ve increased spending at the Ottawa Hospital by 42% since we came to office. That means more—

IMMIGRATION POLICY

Mr. Glen R. Murray: My question is for the Minister of Citizenship. I was pleased to join the minister when he recently announced changes to the Opportunities Ontario provincial nominee program. This program provides a pathway to permanent residency for high-skilled workers who were educated or trained abroad.

As many members of this Legislature know, students from around the world come to Ontario to study at our universities, which are among the best in the world. Many of those students graduate with skills that are in high demand here in Ontario. A Statistics Canada study, for example, found that one of the key challenges facing Canada will be retaining Ph.D. graduates upon the completion of their education.

Can the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration tell this House what the government is doing to retain more highly educated international Ph.D. students?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: I want to first thank the member from Toronto Centre for this very important question.

Attracting the best and brightest talent from around the world is a priority for the McGuinty government because we recognize that in an open Ontario, a highly skilled workforce is essential to ensure that our province remains both strong and prosperous. That is why our government is taking action to help more international Ph.D. students stay in our province when they graduate.

Changes that we have recently made to Opportunities Ontario, our provincial nominee program, will make it even easier for our international Ph.D. graduates who have received their Ph.D. from an Ontario university to obtain their permanent residency status and remain in Ontario. These graduates will no longer need an offer of employment to apply to the program, to be fast-tracked for permanent residency.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Mr. Glen R. Murray: Minister, recent changes to Ontario’s opportunities program will certainly be welcome news to the international students I represent in Toronto Centre.

Until these recent changes, I understand that Ontario employers searching for highly skilled professionals would first have to recruit an internationally educated professional and then the employer would have to nominate the individual for permanent residency, a very complicated process. Now that the government has changed the nominee program to actively retain Ontario-educated Ph.D. graduates, the nominee process will have to be adjusted.

Minister, how can international Ph.D. students or graduates apply for permanent residency through the Ontario’s opportunities program?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: Again, thank you to the member for the question. I want to take the opportunity of also mentioning that I’m working very closely with my colleague the Minister of Training, Colleges and Universities as we continue to attract more international students to this province, because there is a very high demand for Ph.D. graduates in a variety of fields here in Ontario.

Ontario-educated international Ph.D. students can submit their nominee application forms now directly to Opportunities Ontario for approval by visiting ontarioimmigration.ca. They can do this as soon they have met the requirements of the degree, even before the degree has been conferred. If approved by Opportunities Ontario,