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May 10, 2004

38th Parliament, 1st Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2004-May-10 (PDF)

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L'ONTARIO

Monday 10 May 2004 Lundi 10 mai 2004

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

BOB BALTIN

MAYOR'S YOUTH ADVISORY COMMITTEE

SARAH JANE WILLIAMS

HERITAGE CENTRE

WORLD ASTHMA DAY

MUNICIPAL RESTRUCTURING

INTERNATIONAL CHILD AND YOUTH

CARE WORKERS' MONTH

HIGHWAY 7

WORLD LUPUS DAY

BY-ELECTION

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

KEVIN'S LAW (CHILD AND FAMILY SERVICES STATUTE LAW AMENDMENT), 2004 /

LOI KEVIN DE 2004 MODIFIANT DES LOIS

EN CE QUI CONCERNE LES SERVICES

À L'ENFANCE ET À LA FAMILLE

ONTARIO WORKERS'

MEMORIAL ACT, 2004 /

LOI DE 2004

SUR LE MONUMENT COMMÉMORATIF

DES TRAVAILLEURS DE L'ONTARIO

MOTIONS

COMMITTEE SITTINGS

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY AND RESPONSES

PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION

ORAL QUESTIONS

TAXATION

HEALTH CARE FUNDING

GASOLINE PRICES

CHILD CARE

CANCER TREATMENT

GO TRANSIT

BIRTH CERTIFICATES

ENERGY ISSUES

TAXATION

WATER QUALITY

TOURISM

ROAD SAFETY

ENVIRONMENT AWARDS

WATER QUALITY

RED HILL CREEK EXPRESSWAY

SCHOOL SAFETY

GASOLINE PRICES

PETITIONS

TILLSONBURG DISTRICT

MEMORIAL HOSPITAL

PENSION PLANS

PRIMARY CARE

ONTARIO DRUG BENEFIT PROGRAM

SENIOR CITIZENS

LONG-TERM CARE

ONTARIO BUDGET

WATER QUALITY

ALEXANDER GRAHAM BELL PARKWAY

GASOLINE PRICES

DRIVER EXAMINATIONS FOR SENIORS

ONTARIO BUDGET

PROPERTY TAXATION

ONTARIO BUDGET

ORDERS OF THE DAY

AUDIT STATUTE LAW

AMENDMENT ACT, 2003 /

LOI DE 2003 MODIFIANT DES LOIS

EN CE QUI CONCERNE LA VÉRIFICATION

DES COMPTES PUBLICS

The House met at 1330.

Prayers.

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

BOB BALTIN

Mr Garfield Dunlop (Simcoe North): This morning at Rideau Hall, the Governor General invested a total of 17 Ontario recipients into the Order of

Merit of the Police Forces. The order was created in October 2000 to recognize members and employees of Canadian police services whose contributions extend beyond protection of the community. I am

familiar with many of the 17 Ontario recipients and heartily congratulate each and every one of them for receiving the badge of honour. I regret that I only have time in this statement to focus on

one of the recipients.

Constable Bob Baltin was recognized this morning for his outstanding leadership as president of the Police Association of Ontario and for his active role in the

creation of the Canadian Professional Police Association. Fortunately, I have come to know Bob quite well through the process of consulting on and preparing my two private member's bills that help

police. I always value and appreciate Bob's input.

I'm personally very proud of Bob's achievement, so I wanted to tell Ontarians a little more about what he has accomplished for policing. Bob has served for 24

years with the Peel Regional Police Service. He has worked with distinction in the uniformed division and as a detective in the morality, auto theft and intelligence divisions. Bob was elected

president of the Police Association of Ontario in 2001. He was so highly respected by the association's membership that he was acclaimed president for another two-year term in August 2003. Under

Bob's leadership, the Police Association of Ontario has grown from 13,000 to 22,000 members and has embraced community safety as a priority with the new model, Preserving Safe Communities.

Again, I congratulate Bob for a well-deserved award.

MAYOR'S YOUTH ADVISORY COMMITTEE

Mr Peter Fonseca (Mississauga East): It is with great pride that I take this time to discuss one of the most recognizable youth organizations

within Mississauga, the Mayor's Youth Advisory Committee. In 1982, Hazel McCallion founded the Mayor's Youth Advisory Committee as an organization that would meet periodically to discuss youth

issues within the Mississauga community. Throughout the past 22 years, the organization has continued to grow and is now one of the primary youth volunteer movements within Mississauga.

Beyond offering a political voice for youth as well as volunteer opportunities, the Mayor's Youth Advisory Committee organizes Mississauga Youth Week, which

celebrated its fifth year on May 1 to 8. With various sports tournaments, a leadership conference, an essay competition, a park cleanup and a city-wide public-transportation-only scavenger hunt,

the week was filled with numerous opportunities for the youth of Mississauga. With their promotion of an active lifestyle, education, environmentalism and energy conservation, it is clear that this

group embraces the pillars of this government's message.

Mississauga MPPs were active as well, participating in Mississauga Youth Week, in order to promote this great community group in any way they could. I urge all

members to become involved in youth initiatives in their communities, because building stronger communities through youth is an important part of changing the way our government works for all

Ontario.

SARAH JANE WILLIAMS

HERITAGE CENTRE

Mr John O'Toole (Durham): I'm proud to announce the official opening of Ontario's newest museum. A couple of Saturdays ago, on April 3, the

Clarington Museums and Archives opened the Sarah Jane Williams Heritage Centre in Bowmanville. Our new heritage centre is in the former public library building and gives more space to displays and

treasures from our community's past. These include century-old artefacts from the Dominion Organ and Piano factory, plus a doll and toy collection that is one of the largest in Canada.

I would like to congratulate the museum's chair, Keith Isnor, and his board of directors. I'd also like to pay tribute to the dedicated museum volunteers and

staff, including administrator Martha Rutherford Conrad as well as curator Charles Taws. As a former council representative on the museum board, I know how hard the whole community works to support

the museum.

Sarah Jane Williams was a true friend to the Bowmanville Museum. Her generous donation in 1961 founded the museum. However, Mrs Williams and her husband, Dr L.

B. Williams, had a lifelong passion for preserving local history and recording the sites of Durham county. The late George James, owner and editor of the Canadian Statesman newspaper, also

supported the preservation of local history. Gloria Roth, granddaughter of Sarah Jane Williams, brought greetings from the family and assisted in the dedication. Congratulations also to Al Storie

and Donald Air, who received recognition awards for organizing the museum fun run.

With the opening of the Sarah Jane Williams Centre, the museum is making history on its own. I would like to invite my colleagues, and everyone, to visit

Clarington and tour our outstanding museums.

WORLD ASTHMA DAY

Mr Shafiq Qaadri (Etobicoke North): Last Tuesday was World Asthma Day. As a legislator, and as a physician who has dealt extensively with this

condition, I rise to draw attention to the importance of combatting it. This condition afflicts 12% of children and 8% of adults worldwide. Something like 300 million people of all ages and ethnic

backgrounds, on a worldwide basis, are suffering from this condition. The global burden of asthma on the health care system, and of course on patients and their families, is increasing. In some

countries, the prevalence is rising by about 20% to 40% every 10 years. Asthma is the number one reason for childhood hospitalization in Ontario.

The Ontario Lung Association is proud to be a partner with the Ontario government's asthma plan of action. The association's Asthma Action Helpline provides

those with asthma and their caregivers access to health professionals who offer information and advice on managing this condition. This association also provides continuing medical education to

health professionals in Ontario to ensure they are aware of the guidelines for optimal treatment and management.

On behalf of the people of Ontario, and on behalf of all the members of this Legislature, I would like to thank the Ontario Lung Association and their many

colleagues, volunteers and staff for the time, effort, attention and expertise they bring in dealing with this condition.

MUNICIPAL RESTRUCTURING

Mr Michael Prue (Beaches-East York): On May 15, this very weekend, there will be a large gathering in Rockton, Ontario, at the World's

Fairground. That's on Highway 8, just north of Highway 5 -- about 15 kilometres. It is a meeting of people from across this province who are upset about amalgamation of their cities and towns by

the previous government, and who are upset that the present government is not listening to their pleas.

There will be citizens there from Kawartha Lakes, Hamilton, Stoney Creek, Ancaster, Toronto, Ottawa and Kitchener.

Mr John O'Toole (Durham): Hamilton East.

Mr Prue: Maybe Hamilton East as well.

There will be speakers: Dave Braden, a local counsellor from Stoney Creek, and Margaret McCarthy from Hamilton. There will be writers: Ken Bosveld and Joe

Cooper. There will be politicians from the New Democratic Party, the Conservative Party and the Green Party to address the crowd, but nary a Liberal will dare show their face in that location.

There were no Liberals because they have violated the trust of the people of Kawartha Lakes by ignoring their democratic referendum. They have ignored that, and they have further hidden the

ministerial response to their many petitions that have been presented in this House.

We invite people to show up at the World's Fairground on Highway 8, 15 miles north of Highway 5. For further information, please contact Dennis Noonan at

519-624-1755. Come on out Saturday. See what democracy is all about.

INTERNATIONAL CHILD AND YOUTH

CARE WORKERS' MONTH

Mr Ted McMeekin (Ancaster-Dundas-Flamborough-Aldershot): May is International Child and Youth Care Workers' Month. Around the globe, nations are

celebrating the unique contribution of child and youth care workers to the lives of vulnerable children and their families. Thousands of these hard-working professionals give of themselves on a

daily basis to better the lives and futures of children and youth in this province. I would like to take this opportunity to thank all of these people who have chosen a career that requires such a

special level of commitment to their work and to their communities across the province.

Child and youth care workers promote the development of children, youth and their families in diverse settings, including mental health centres, school programs

and youth detention facilities. The work these people undertake is challenging and demanding. Over 60,000 people throughout the country work daily with children and youth. Often they work under

extremely difficult conditions, with little remuneration or recognition. Their efforts benefit every one of us in Ontario by helping to build stronger, more capable youth, families and

communities.

International Child and Youth Care Workers' Month gives us all an opportunity to recognize and celebrate their hard work and dedication. Let us join in

celebrating their commitment and achievements and in recognizing their contribution to helping children, youth and families all across Ontario.

HIGHWAY 7

Mr Norman W. Sterling (Lanark-Carleton): On the day this government was sworn in, I handed the ministers of environment and transportation

letters urging them to proceed with the four-laning of Highway 7 as quickly as possible. As Minister of Transportation, I worked very hard to ensure that this project remained in the forefront. I

earmarked an $85-million investment and committed to completing the project by 2007 or sooner.

Area residents who travel this highway between 417 and Carleton Place know how critical this four-laning work is to saving lives and improving traffic flow.

There is not a person in my part of the province who doesn't know someone who has been injured or killed in a collision along this

section of highway. Last night another life was lost and two

people were injured in a head-on collision near the planned first stage of construction.

My constituents and I appreciate the Minister of the Environment's decision last week, clearing the way for the beginning of construction. I rise today to urge

the Minister of Transportation and the government to act quickly. No one knows for certain if last night's tragic events could have been avoided. However, now is the time to ensure that no more

lives will be lost in the future. On behalf of my constituents and residents throughout eastern Ontario, I urge the government to proceed post-haste with the construction on this killer strip of

highway.

WORLD LUPUS DAY

Mr Kim Craitor (Niagara Falls): Today is World Lupus Day, and I have been asked by my local lupus organization in Niagara to share the following

proclamation with the people of Ontario:

"Whereas lupus is an autoimmune disease in which the immune system attacks the body's own healthy cells, causing tissue damage, organ failure and, in some cases,

death;

"Whereas more than five million people suffer worldwide from the devastating effects of this disease and each year over 100,000 men, women and children are newly

diagnosed with lupus, the majority of whom are women of childbearing age;

"Whereas medical research efforts into lupus and the discovery of safer, more effective treatments for lupus patients are underfunded in comparison with diseases

of comparable magnitude and severity;

"Whereas many physicians worldwide are unaware of the symptoms and health effects of lupus, causing people with lupus to suffer for many years before they obtain

a correct diagnosis and medical treatment;

"Whereas there is an urgent need to increase awareness in communities worldwide of the debilitating impact of lupus;

"Be it resolved that the World Health Organization recognizes and declares May 10, 2004, as World Lupus Day and joins the lupus organizations around the globe in

calling for an increase in public and private sector funding for medical research on lupus, targeted education programs for health professionals, patients and the public, and worldwide recognition

of lupus as a significant public health issue."

World Lupus Day is announced in conjunction with the seventh International Lupus Congress in New York City, held to advance the science on lupus.

BY-ELECTION

Mr Tim Hudak (Erie-Lincoln): I was in Hamilton just a few days ago and gathered up some interesting pieces of literature. I went through the

local Liberal candidate's literature, three different pieces, and guess whose picture was totally absent? Dalton McGuinty's. There was not a single picture of Dalton McGuinty in local Liberal

advertising. You had to have a microscope to even find his name anywhere in the documents -- only one reference in three pieces of literature.

I cannot blame the local Liberal candidate, because when people see Dalton McGuinty's picture, what do they think? Twenty major broken promises higher taxes,

higher hydro rates, multi-year deficits, and that old-school politics where you say one thing before the election and do something entirely different once you get the keys to the Premier's

limousine.

Tara Crugnale, a prominent local business person, is proudly carrying our banner. She is proudly and prominently standing with our leader, Ernie Eves.

Dalton McGuinty, the Premier: disappeared, hidden, gone, not to be seen; Dalton McGuinty, the invisible man of the Hamilton by-election.

Mr Joseph N. Tascona (Barrie-Simcoe-Bradford): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: I rise on a point of order pursuant to standing order 97(d). The

24 sitting days are up for my order paper question of March 23, 2004, to the Minister of Education on the status of the new elementary school in the Georgian Glen subdivision that he promised in my

Barrie riding. The minister is in contravention of the standing order, he is over the deadline, and he's not the only minister in this position.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): I have checked our record and see that the answer to your question is due today. Seeing that it's not the end

of the day, I would say you don't have a point of order.

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

KEVIN'S LAW (CHILD AND FAMILY SERVICES STATUTE LAW AMENDMENT), 2004 /

LOI KEVIN DE 2004 MODIFIANT DES LOIS

EN CE QUI CONCERNE LES SERVICES

À L'ENFANCE ET À LA FAMILLE

Mr Jackson moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 78,

An Act to amend the Child and Family Services Act and the Coroners Act to better protect the children of Ontario / Projet de loi 78, Loi modifiant

la

Loi sur les services à l'enfance et à la famille et la

Loi sur les coroners pour mieux protéger les enfants de l'Ontario.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

ONTARIO WORKERS'

MEMORIAL ACT, 2004 /

LOI DE 2004

SUR LE MONUMENT COMMÉMORATIF

DES TRAVAILLEURS DE L'ONTARIO

Mr Ramal moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 79,

An Act to establish the Ontario Workers' Memorial / Projet de loi 79, Loi visant à ériger le monument commémoratif en hommage aux

travailleurs de l'Ontario.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Mr Khalil Ramal (London-Fanshawe): I am pleased to introduce my private member's bill to the House. Every year, hundreds of workers die on the

job or from diseases they catch on the job. According to the WSIB, in 2003, 552 workers were killed; in 2002, 596 died; and in 2001, 453 lost their lives.

There are memorials to workers killed or injured all over this province. There is one in London at the Tolpuddle co-op on Adelaide Street, but there is not one

dedicated to all workers killed or injured in Ontario. This bill would provide for such a memorial, here or nearby the legislative area.

I am looking forward to working with my colleagues here, and hopefully they will support my bill.

MOTIONS

COMMITTEE SITTINGS

Hon Dwight Duncan (Minister of Energy, Government House Leader): Mr Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to put forward a motion without notice

regarding the standing committee on general government and the standing committee on the Legislative Assembly. I believe we have agreement by the opposition parties to do this.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Do we have unanimous consent for the House leader to put forward this motion? Agreed.

Hon Mr Duncan: I move that the standing committee on general government be authorized to meet on Friday, May 14, and Friday, May 21, in addition

to its regularly scheduled meeting times to consider Bill 27,

An Act to establish a greenbelt study area and to amend the Oak Ridges Moraine Conservation Act, 2001, and that the standing committee

on the Legislative Assembly be authorized to meet outside of its regularly scheduled meetings on Thursday, May 20, Friday, May 21, and Thursday, June 3, to consider Bill 49,

An Act to prevent the

disposal of waste at the Adams Mine site and to amend the Environmental Protection Act in respect of the disposal of waste in lakes.

The Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry?

All those in favour of the motion, say "aye." All those against? I think the ayes have it.

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY AND RESPONSES

PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION

Hon Harinder S. Takhar (Minister of Transportation): I rise in the House today to reinforce our government's commitment to public transit in

Ontario. Improved public transit is at the heart of our vision for strong and liveable communities. This government has a plan to ensure that seamless, safe, reliable and affordable public transit

systems are available to Ontarians.

Today, Ontario's 65 transit systems together move 680 million passengers each year. GO Transit carries 44 million riders annually. The TTC, Canada's largest

transit system, carries over one million passengers daily.

The average car in Toronto usually carries one person. A single GO bus would replace 50 cars, and one GO train would replace 1,400 cars. Only by investing in

transit can we reduce the congestion that affects the economy and robs Ontarians of quality family time. Investing in transit will improve air quality, conserve energy and reduce greenhouse gas

emissions.

A strong public transit system also benefits business and helps local, provincial and national economies. Industries want a more effective transit system to

support the efficient movement of people and goods. The strategic investments this government is making in transit will increase service, increase access and ultimately make transit a more

desirable alternative.

Our vision includes expanding existing transit lines and adding new ones; adding more parking spaces at transit stations to get people on to the system as

conveniently as possible; seamless transportation, so that GO Transit, the TTC, rapid transit and city buses all connect; and the new integrated ticket will mean commuters will be able to travel

across the GTA, from one transit system to the next, with one card.

Just last week, the Honourable David Caplan joined me, along with our federal colleagues and MPPs Bob Delaney and Tim Peterson, in announcing $1 billion in GO

Transit improvements in the greater Toronto area. These 12 projects will have the same impact as building a new Highway 401 through Toronto.

It is worth noting that, over the next 30 years, each person who takes GO instead of driving their car will save three tonnes of greenhouse gas emissions

yearly.

Last week, I was joined by MPPs Tony Wong and Mario Racco as we announced funding for phase one of York region's new rapid transit system. We were joined there

as well by the member from Oak Ridges, Frank Klees.

In March, the province, the city of Toronto and the federal government made history with a $1-billion funding agreement to keep the TTC in a state of good

repair. This is possible, thanks to a new spirit of co-operation between all levels of government. For the first time in Ontario history, governments are working together to improve public

transit.

These transit agreements are an investment in the future. We are investing in a better quality of life by getting people where they need to go faster. In turn,

this will help to keep the economy moving by freeing up space on our highways and roads to get our products to market in the US efficiently and effectively.

We will continue to consider innovative ways to make transit a better, more compelling choice for commuters. We will ask everyone to do their part and take

public transit whenever possible. Start by leaving the car at home once or twice a week and take public transit to the movies, out to dinner or to and from work.

This government is building a better, more reliable transit system. In connection with our road safety improvements, investments in highways and action on

strategic border crossings, our government is committed to making Ontario's transportation system one of the best.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Responses?

Mr Frank Klees (Oak Ridges): I am pleased to respond as the transportation critic for the official opposition. I find myself in some conflict,

because on a personal level I really do like the Minister of Transportation, but when it comes to the reality, over the last number of weeks, every time I ask the minister a question, he responds

by saying I'm simply looking for publicity. Well, the minister will know, and you will know, Speaker, that what this announcement is really all about is seeking publicity. The minister knows that

the announcement he made this past weekend is, in fact, a reannouncement -- a particularly extreme example -- of what we announced.

I was present, as the member indicated, in York region. The announcement that was made in York region was a $50-million commitment on the part of the

provincial government and a $50-million commitment on the part of the federal government. Minister Collenette and I made that identical announcement with regard to the other, and that, by the way,

was in August of last year. So I suggest that the minister is probably responding to a demand or a request from his Liberal federal colleagues, who need some ink at this point in time, and is

simply providing a platform for them to make their political announcement.

With regard to the exact announcement related to GO, this again is a duplication; I looked at the words. Minister, you could have at least had them rewritten.

The difference is that you make reference to consultation. This government hails their consultation, and yet Mayor McCallion had some very harsh words for the minister after he signed this

agreement and made this commitment, and the harsh words were: "Why didn't you consult with the municipalities so that we can at least have some input as to where our contribution is going to come

from?" No, this government simply made a reannouncement.

They make reference to a vision. It is in fact re-vision. The fact of the matter is that the policy that was announced here was the policy that we

announced.

Having said that, this government has broken every single promise they made to the people of this province in the election campaign. At the very least, I hail

the fact that they are attempting to keep our promises to the people of this province. On that count, I give them credit. The fact is that the people of this province are becoming more and more

cynical. The people of York region knew that we made this announcement of $50 million to a very important transit program in August of last year. The funds were committed. Now this staging of a

recommitment simply adds to the cynicism that people are holding this government in. Broken promises; this government has zero credibility.

I might say that it's interesting that this particular announcement was absolutely void of reference to the important contributions that should be made to

other parts of the province. I'm going to allow my colleague to speak to that issue.

Mr Norman W. Sterling (Lanark-Carleton): Between the years 1995 and 2003, the province of Ontario -- the previous government -- invested over

$300 million in transit in the city of Ottawa. Mr Speaker, I like Toronto and I like to see Toronto helped out with regard to their transit, but there are other areas of this province that have

problems with their transit systems.

The previous government helped out other municipalities with regard to their transit systems. We put, as I said, $300 million into public transit, and $300

million into highways in eastern Ontario. What have we heard from this government with regard to transit for Ottawa? Nothing. We have received nothing in Ottawa with regard to public transit.

It's about time this government stopped thinking that the Ontario border stops at Ajax and included all of Ontario, including eastern Ontario.

Mr Michael Prue (Beaches-East York): Here again we have a commitment, or a so-called commitment, to public transit in Ontario. When you first

open up the paper, when you first see the minister, when you first see the assembled politicians standing on a platform, you have to think, "My God, there's finally some money coming for public

transit." But it doesn't take very long to read the fine print, and when you read the fine print, you realize this is nothing more than another government reannouncement.

In fact, it's a reannouncement not from this government but from the previous government. It is nothing more than a plan rehashing the Tory plan of June 6,

2003. It is a plan that is now some 11 months old, a plan that was never put into action, a plan where no money was spent and a plan that the Liberals are now embracing in their new guise as

Conservatives with red ties.

We have seen this announcement before. When it came around in its first iteration, it was announced by Hazel McCallion, the ebullient and wonderful mayor of

Mississauga, who was on the Ontario Smart Growth panel. Hazel McCallion had the honour at that time, 11 months ago, to announce $645 million for GO Transit -- money that was never, ever spent. She

made an announcement about all the other monies that would be spent on public transit in the greater Toronto area -- monies that the were never spent.

Only two things have changed from that day. The first one is that the federal Liberals are now caught up in this. Can one possibly be cynical enough to say

that this has something to do with the election that's going to be called in a week or two? I am not going to be that cynical, but the public just may be. Are they looking, because of the dismal

prospects they have, those federal Liberals here in Ontario, having done so many things badly, having tried to cover up so many problems of their own making?

The second problem is an even bigger one, in that this minister forgot to tell the mayors of Ontario how they were going to be involved in this plan. The last

time, at least the Conservatives had the wherewithal to invite Hazel McCallion and to involve her and let her be the spokesperson. This time, although the Liberals invited Hazel McCallion, she was

very blunt that this is not a tripartite agreement, that this is not something she was consulted about, nor were the other 20 or so mayors of the greater Toronto area ever consulted.

Mayor Miller, for his part, said he was absolutely shocked. Mayor McCallion, of course, being erudite and able to put words immediately, said that although the

municipalities were the so-called children of the province, they were not even treated as children.

In fact, the newspapers went on to quote some of what went on that day. I'm quoting here from Alan Findlay of the Toronto Sun, that good union newspaper.

Here's what they said in the Saturday Sun, May 8: "He" -- talking about Miller -- "echoed McCallion's earlier remarks and said the city simply doesn't have the $100 million to chip in over 10

years, as suggested by Ontario transportation minister Harinder Takhar. `Although we are obviously happy there is money coming to GO Transit, we're concerned because any further obligation on us we

won't be able to meet,' Miller said.

"As the federal and provincial politicians shook hands and signed the deal in front of the cameras, McCallion (who actually emceed the event) took back the

microphone and told reporters the agreement is actually worth less than $800 million.

"`There's one party missing from the table this morning signing the agreement, and that's the local municipalities,' she said."

Here we have this great plan, and I want to tell you it's not a great plan; it's a Tory plan for which the money was never spent. But there was nothing in here

about the Liberal plan. There was nothing in here about the two cents on the gas tax that was promised in the last election -- something that would really make a difference to the city of Toronto

and to Mississauga. Nothing at all was said about the two cents on the gas tax. Nothing at all was said about the powers of the municipalities and how the municipalities would be given power to

make sure they could solve their own transit and internal problems. Last but not least, nothing was in here at all, and certainly the actions were contrary to the consultation and the new era you

promised to municipalities that you would consult with them. You did not, and the plan, quite frankly, is not worth the paper it's written on.

Ms Marilyn Churley (Toronto-Danforth): On a point of order, Speaker: I would like to ask for unanimous consent that this House pass my notice

of motion number 18, which calls for the government to fund municipalities and property owners to aid them in complying with provincial water quality regulations. Do I have unanimous consent to

pass that resolution?

The Speaker: Do we have unanimous consent? I heard a no.

ORAL QUESTIONS

TAXATION

Mr Tim Hudak (Erie-Lincoln): My question is to the Premier. Last September there wasn't a promise that you wouldn't make. Today there's not a

promise that you're not going to break.

Last week it was confirmed that you are going to commit the mother of all broken promises: You are going to rip up the Taxpayer Protection Act that you signed

with great fanfare last fall. Do you know what this means? It means higher taxes and runaway multi-year deficits. This week in your spin you're calling it "closing tax loopholes." Well, it smells

and looks to me like a coming tax hike.

Tax exemptions or incentives in the province exist for children's clothing, investments in new mines in northern Ontario and the thousands of jobs in Ontario's

film industry. Is this what you mean by tax loopholes? Are these now on the McGuinty hit list?

Hon Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): I appreciate the member's continuing interest in the contents of the

budget. I'm not prepared to speak to any of the details in that document, which we very much look forward to introducing in this Legislature. But I can say is that we have a number of overriding

objectives. One of those is to breathe greater life into health care in Ontario, another is to revitalize public education and of course we want to put this government on a sound financial footing,

unlike what the previous government did when they saddled us and, more importantly, the people of Ontario with a $5.6-billion deficit.

The Speaker: Supplementary.

Mr Frank Klees (Oak Ridges): Every time the Premier stands in his place and refuses to answer a question, or simply attacks our government,

the people of this province are becoming more and more cynical about whether or not they can trust this government or this Premier for anything.

The Premier will know that he signed a pledge not to increase taxes. We now have seniors in this province who are experiencing an increase in property taxes

because this government cancelled the property tax credit that they were expecting. Seniors, as they're opening up their electricity bills this month, are experiencing increased costs of their

electricity. Call it what you want, seniors are seeing this government burden them with additional costs.

I'd like to ask the Premier why he can't stand in his place, or will he do so today, and simply say to the people of Ontario, "I told you something that was

not true. I told you that I would not increase taxes and I am." Will he stand in his place and at least admit that to the people of Ontario?

Hon Mr McGuinty: I think what seniors and other Ontarians are particularly disappointed about is the fact that when the previous government

introduced the 2003 Ontario budget over at the Magna auto parts centre, they indicated that the budget was balanced. And then on numerous occasions leading up to the campaign, in the thick of the

campaign itself and even during the leaders' debate, then-Premier Ernie Eves reassured the people of Ontario that the budget was balanced.

In fact, it is not balanced. We are coming to grips with this reality. We're going to provide a wonderful budget from a seniors' perspective -- I can tell you

that much -- and we intend to put special emphasis on health care, education and bringing to ground this runaway deficit that was left to us by the previous government.

Mr Klees: Those seniors, who are going to be hit with increased costs as a result of their electricity and property taxes, are going to have

to do what this government refused to do. They're going to have to balance their budgets in spite of the increased costs that are being burdened on them by this government. Do you know what they'll

have to do? They'll have to look at their budget, they'll have to look at places where they normally spend money and not spend that money.

That is precisely what this government should have done. That was their responsibility: to look at their books, for every minister to do the program review and

to balance the budget. This Premier had an option, and the option was to direct the Minister of Finance to balance the budget. They chose not to. They chose to continue to lay an additional burden

of tax on the people of Ontario. The Premier will have to answer at some point as to why he broke his promise. Why did you not go to work, Premier, and balance the budget? Why?

Hon Mr McGuinty: I can say that our predecessors, the Conservative government, did answer for their sorry record on the state of seniors at

the time of the last election. Let me just remind you about some of the things they did to seniors -- not for seniors, but to seniors.

They increased copayments for seniors' drugs. They tried to sneak through increases in long-term-care fees on a Canada Day weekend. They downloaded costs on to

municipalities, which caused property taxes to go up, leaving seniors on fixed incomes at the mercy of property tax hikes. I can provide every reassurance to the people of Ontario, but to seniors

in particular, that we do not intend to do to them what the Tories did to them.

HEALTH CARE FUNDING

Mrs Elizabeth Witmer (Kitchener-Waterloo): My question is to the Premier -- and I'm glad to hear that the Premier is going to be treating our

seniors with the dignity and fairness they deserve. But I will tell you, based on the letters and e-mails that we on this side of the House have been receiving, that there is growing concern,

particularly from seniors, about the fact that you are going to be reducing universal access to health care by delisting chiropractic, podiatry, optometry and physiotherapy services. As you know,

many of those are services that people on fixed incomes -- seniors -- simply could not afford if they were not funded by the provincial government through OHIP. So I ask you today, will you commit

that your government will not reduce or eliminate funding for chiropractic services?

Hon Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): I thank the member for her question. I know there's a real interest on

the part of the members opposite to kind of pick and choose and score some one-offs with respect to what is in and what is out of the budget. You know, Speaker, as does the member opposite, that it

would be inappropriate for us to reveal details of the budget, but I can say this much: We are working as hard as we can to wrestle this deficit to the ground in a reasonable and responsible way

and at the same time to deliver when it comes to health care and education, and we will not lose sight of Ontario's seniors and their special needs.

Mrs Witmer: Well, I can tell you, Premier, seniors are very concerned. They see that if delisting does occur, this is going to be reducing

universal access to health care, and you have promised that you would not do that.

I want to focus on podiatry. As you probably know, about 60% of those people who do receive podiatry services are seniors, and of that 60%, at least half are

people who suffer from diabetes, so it is a very, very significant treatment. I ask you today, will you commit that you will not reduce or eliminate OHIP funding for podiatry services?

Hon Mr McGuinty: Again, I am not going to engage in speculation about specific details. I can say that on this side of the House -- as on that

side of the House, I can presume to say -- we have a tremendous sensitivity to the needs of our seniors and we feel a sense of responsibility to them. It was their investments in our colleges,

universities, schools and hospitals that have so much enhanced the quality of life that we all benefit from today. So we will not lose sight of our seniors, either in this budget or throughout our

term as a government.

Mrs Witmer: I have to say, Premier, that personally I'm disappointed in your response. You could reassure people in this province who are

concerned, particularly our seniors, about the fact that you may be delisting some of these services. It's pretty easy. Just say, "No, we are not delisting; no, we are not reducing OHIP

coverage."

But if you take a look at physiotherapy, the Toronto Star says, "Seniors and people with disabilities who cannot afford to pay $20 to $40 for treatment would

be left incapacitated." In fact, more than 80% of the

schedule 5 patients are seniors.

Will you end the speculation today? Will you commit to providing universal access to health care services and will you reassure people in the province today

that you will not reduce or eliminate funding for

schedule 5 physiotherapy?

Hon Mr McGuinty: Again, I really do thank the member for the question and for the concerns that she raises. I'm hoping she is not trying to

fan flames of fear among our seniors. Nobody would ever want to do that.

But let me just say this: Let us consider the previous government's record when it comes to seniors. Again, they increased copayments for seniors' drugs. They

tried to sneak through increases in long-term-care fees on a Canada Day weekend. Seniors felt the brunt of the costs downloaded on to municipalities when the municipalities had no choice but to

look to their municipal tax base to cope with their new responsibilities.

We're not going to bring that kind of approach to governing. We do not intend to burden seniors further.

GASOLINE PRICES

Mr Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): My question is for the Premier. While gasoline prices skyrocket across the province, your Liberal

government is engaging in blatant promise-breaking. Before the last election, the member for Sudbury, Mr Bartolucci, now Minister of Northern Development and Mines, introduced a bill to first roll

back gasoline prices and then freeze them for at least 90 days. But now that you are government, you want to pretend that this bill never existed.

Consumers are being hit hard at the gas pumps. The government of Ontario has the legal capacity to regulate gas prices. A simple question: Will you pass Mr

Bartolucci's bill, now introduced as Bill 74, to roll back and freeze gasoline prices?

Hon Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): I know the Minister of Energy will want to speak to this in more detail

shortly, but let me say off the top that I appreciate that many members of this government have in the past introduced a variety of bills, and I do not doubt their sincerity for a moment in that

regard. But I think it's important that the public recognizes the difference between government policy and laudable initiatives made on the part of individual members. I know the member opposite

would want to make that clear.

We're not divorced from the public we happen to serve. We understand that gas prices are a real issue. We have an ongoing concern with respect to that. The

Minister of Energy is monitoring that very closely, I know the federal government is now looking at this very, very closely. We're paying very close attention.

Mr Hampton: I'm surprised that the Premier now believes the ideas he and his colleagues promoted in opposition no longer apply.

Let me quote Mr Colle, who also had a lot to say on this issue. In fact, I'll use his supplementary:

"Mr Premier, when it comes to gas price gouging, you're all talk and no action. You, as the Premier of this province, have the power to protect Ontario

consumers when it comes to pricing....

"In 1975, Bill Davis stepped in to protect consumers.... Pass this bill today. You can stop the bellyaching and take concrete action.... Stop whining and do

something."

So said Mr Colle, a member of your government, parliamentary assistant to the Minister of Finance. If it was good enough for you Liberals then, why isn't it

good enough now? Pass the bill. Live up to some of the promises you made.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Premier?

Hon Mr McGuinty: The Minister of Energy.

Hon Dwight Duncan (Minister of Energy, Government House Leader): I think it's important to remember what all members of the House have said in

here.

Let me tell you what Jenny Carter, the NDP energy minister, said when gas prices went up under their government. She said, "I don't have a magic wand to wave

to iron out these problems." That's what she said.

Let me tell you what Brian Charlton, the energy minister, said to this House on May 27, 1992: "The primary responsibility for ensuring that there is no

price-fixing ... in this country" falls to the federal government.

What did the NDP do about gas prices when they were in government? They raised the tax 13% in their 1992 budget. That member is full of histrionics and

ironics. He forgets his own record. You ought to remember it, sir. No one has a worse record on gas prices than your government did when it was in power.

CHILD CARE

Mr Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): Premier, I enjoy reading the Liberals' words back to them, and I want to read your words back to you

on child care. You promised $300 million of provincial funding for child care. We know there is a crisis in child care across the province, whether it's in large cities like Toronto or smaller

communities like Fort Frances, Kenora or Sioux Lookout in my riding. They are either losing spaces, driving up fees or closing their centres. But it's not just the $300 million you promised; this

year you are receiving $58 million from the multilateral agreement of federal money and $187 million from the early childhood development agreement. Just in federal money, that is $245 million that

should be going to child care. My question is, will you immediately announce that all of that money, $245 million, is going to be passed over to the municipalities so they can properly and

adequately fund child care?

Hon Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): I know the Minister is anxious to speak to this.

Hon Marie Bountrogianni (Minister of Children and Youth Services, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration): This government is committed to

enhancing child care. We heard the same stories over the years that we were in opposition. My honourable colleague the Minister of the Environment was the critic for children's services during the

last four years, and we are very well aware of the challenges out there and we will enhance child care money. And yes, sir, I have said at least three times that the $58 million coming from the

federal government will go to child care for this province.

Mr Hampton: It is not just the $58 million. The $58 million is from the multilateral agreement on child care. You are also receiving $187

million from the early childhood development agreement. That is $245 million. Then there is the $300 million that you promised. Even if you only gave part of that, say one quarter of it, that would

come to another $75 million: total, $320 million. Will you commit today that you are you going to pass on the $245 million of federal money that you already have or are going to get and the $75

million you promised in provincial funding -- $320 million that our child care centres desperately need today? Will you make that commitment, or are you going to hold back some of that money?

Hon Mrs Bountrogianni: There isn't one penny held back. A lot of the money that the honourable member mentioned was given by the former

government to children's services and, quite rightly so, I was also disturbed that a lot of that didn't go to child care.

What my ministry and I are presently doing is reviewing all the programs from the federal government as well as the provincial monies that are going into early

years child care and early years children's services. Some of those children's services are actually excellent. We don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. There are others that are

questionable. We are doing an analysis of all that, and we will improve child care and the early years in Ontario, I can assure you.

CANCER TREATMENT

Mr Cameron Jackson (Burlington): My question is to the Premier. Cancer Care Ontario is building one of the finest cancer treatment programs

anywhere in the world. On April 29, its CEO reported that we are expecting a 4% increase in actual cases and that last year's actual costs for new drug treatments were almost $12 million more.

Yet, you have officially notified Cancer Care Ontario that this year's budget for new drug treatments will be frozen at last year's lower rate, significantly

short of actual treatment costs. You have also advised Cancer Care Ontario to withdraw treatment from prostate cancer patients by no longer paying for zoledronic acid injections.

Why are you capping Cancer Care Ontario's new drug budget well below the actual treatment needs of Ontario cancer patients, and why are you specifically

withdrawing funding for new drugs for breast and prostate cancer in Ontario?

Hon Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): First of all, let me speak to the issue of cancer and the devastation it

causes to our families.

I had the opportunity to deliver a speech within the past hour, and one of the things I talked about was how, by the year 2028, the number of diagnosed cases

of cancer is expected to double in Ontario. So we've got a real challenge on our hands.

To be more specific to the questions raised by the member opposite, my understanding is -- and I don't have the minister here to double-check it with -- no

final decisions have been made. It is certainly not our intention to compromise the ability of Cancer Care Ontario to address cases of cancer in Ontario.

Mr Jackson: You may have made a speech last week, but I have in my possession --

Hon Greg Sorbara (Minister of Finance): No, today.

Mr Jackson: Today. I have in my possession a memo from your government, dated January 27, 2004, confirming, "Provincial funding for the new

drug funding program will be restricted for the 2003-04 fiscal year. As a result, Cancer Care Ontario will delay the implementation of the decision to reimburse Zoledronic" acid injections "for the

treatment of hormone refractory prostate cancer. Treatment given patients initiating therapy prior to January 28, 2004, will be eligible for reimbursement."

If you needed it after that date, you were no longer able to get it in Ontario. These patients are mostly seniors. They are not able to fight for access to

this treatment.

Premier, this drug was cut because of budgetary restrictions put on by your minister, not for clinical reasons. Will you reinstate this drug therapy now and

not create two-tier access to cancer care in our province?

Hon Mr McGuinty: Again, my understanding is that no final decision has been made with respect to this particular matter. I undertake, on

behalf of the member, to look into it and report back to him.

Again, I want to say this with the greatest possible emphasis: It is not our intention to compromise cancer care for Ontarians.

GO TRANSIT

Mr Ted McMeekin (Ancaster-Dundas-Flamborough-Aldershot): My question is for the Minister of Transportation. Last week you joined with the

federal government to announce the signing of an agreement to jointly fund construction projects to improve the GO Transit rail and bus system in the greater Toronto area. This is a significant

investment -- I understand $1.05 billion. I'm from Hamilton, which is just outside the formal GTA area. My constituents are wondering aloud just how this investment will benefit Hamilton

commuters.

Hon Harinder S. Takhar (Minister of Transportation): First of all, I want to thank my colleague from Ancaster-Dundas-Flamborough-Aldershot.

The GO announcements we made on Friday are really intended to improve the service in the GTA area in general, but let me just talk about some of the improvements that will happen in the Hamilton

area.

We are expecting to add a third track between Port Credit and Oakville and between Burlington and Hamilton Junction in the lakeshore area. That will

tremendously improve the service and reliability of GO Transit in that area.

Mr Klees: I made these announcements.

Hon Mr Takhar: These planned improvements, together with the system improvements at Union Station, will support additional trains to Hamilton

and help us improve congestion.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Supplementary.

Mr Kuldip Kular (Bramalea-Gore-Malton-Springdale): Many thousands of people commute from Brampton into Toronto every day. I and my

constituents were pleased to see the government follow through on its commitment to enhance GO Transit service. Minister, how will the funding you announced last week specifically benefit Brampton

commuters?

Hon Mr Takhar: Again, I want to thank my colleague from Bramalea-Gore-Malton-Springdale for his question. My friend from Oak Ridges says he

made all these announcements, but there was never any money tied to these announcements.

The announcement we made on Friday will tremendously improve GO Transit service on the Georgetown corridor, which serves the Brampton area. This includes

improving track capacity and road-rail grade separation. We also plan to actually expand the parking areas at Bramalea and Malton. This will ensure that the safety of road and rail will increase,

and we will increase the service on the Georgetown corridor as well.

BIRTH CERTIFICATES

Mr Joseph N. Tascona (Barrie-Simcoe-Bradford): My question is for the Minister of Education. The entire province is aware of, and has felt the

effects of, the mess and the backlog of the processing of birth certificates in this province. Now my constituents are being told that their children will be denied entry to kindergarten, come

September, if they do not present official birth certificates to the school. My question is, are you going to allow this to happen?

Hon Gerard Kennedy (Minister of Education): I'm a little surprised that the member opposite wants to highlight the mess his government left us

in terms of the Registrar General's office, and I appreciate the opportunity, which we can provide in a supplementary, for us to exhibit the great job that the minister is doing in dealing with

that backlog.

What I would say is that we only became aware today of the particular question that the member is raising. We are talking to the board. We can't speak to the

specific case. It is the board's prerogative to set those kinds of policies, but we do like to believe there is a way to work around that, working with the board. Obviously, in general, we want to

make sure that students get access to the improvements we're making in education, and I'll be happy to let the Minister of Consumer and Business Services tell you about what they're doing on the

birth certificate backlog.

Mr Tascona: Many of these applications are not even close to being processed and, according to your ministry, they don't even qualify for

emergency or expedited service because apparently kindergarten is not considered mandatory. At this point, people across this province are submitting a photocopy of their children's application.

Some school boards are accepting them for now and some are not, but they won't accept anything less than the official certificate come September. Will you stand today and promise Ontario children

that each and every one of them will have an official birth certificate in order to go to school this September?

Hon Jim Watson (Minister of Consumer and Business Services): I thank the Minister of Education, who undertook that he would look into the

situation with respect to the school board aspect. I would be pleased to speak with the honourable member about a specific case. Obviously, because of privacy laws, we can't deal with a specific

case on the floor of the Legislature.

But I am pleased to report that as a result of the McGuinty government's commitment to cleaning up the situation we find ourselves in, we now have 173 new

staff processing applications. Just in the last five days, 5,000 new applications were processed and sent out, and this is the result of a $2.6-million investment. Regrettably, your party cut the

Office of the Registrar General by 11%, a total of $6.3 million. We're cleaning up the mess, and we're going to continue to do so.

ENERGY ISSUES

Mrs Carol Mitchell (Huron-Bruce): My question is to the Minister of Energy. I want to ask you about this government's action on electricity

and how it will affect the people in my riding. You have spoken several times on how you will work with farmers to ensure fairness for all communities in Ontario. Distribution costs tend to be

higher for farmers and people in rural areas. What has been done to ensure that these individuals have fair and predictable prices for electricity?

Hon Dwight Duncan (Minister of Energy, Government House Leader): The energy plan we introduced last fall will help ensure stable prices going

forward for small consumers, particularly in rural communities. I'd like to review for a couple of moments some of the things that I think are of benefit to the rural community.

Recognizing that the cost of distributing electricity is more expensive in rural areas, rural residents will continue to receive a $28-per-month subsidy to

help make their costs more affordable. We've also made a number of announcements with demand shifting, smart meters and so on, which can be most beneficial.

I should also say that the Premier announced our intention to do net metering, which should allow farmers particularly to benefit from being able to sell

excess generation that they create into the grid to help reduce their own costs. We were assisted, as you know, by the Ontario Federation of Agriculture. The member opposite should be applauded for

her work in this effort as well.

Mrs Mitchell: We must have an adequate and reliable supply of electricity. That's absolutely necessary for Ontario's prosperity. The August

2003 blackout was an example of how when our system goes down, the vitality of our economy is jeopardized.

Recently, the Canada-US joint task force on the August 2003 blackout released its report. Energy issues are a concern for me. As you are aware, Bruce Power is

in my riding. It employs several thousand people and provides much-needed supply to the province. Minister, what role did Ontario play in the August 2003 blackout, and how was Bruce Power able to

help with that recovery?

Hon Mr Duncan: I recently asked key players in the sector to participate in a discussion about how we responded to the blackout and what we've

done since to improve energy response capabilities. Bruce Power -- interestingly enough, the member references it -- was able to have three of its four units at Bruce B back on the grid between

three and five hours after the blackout occurred, which contributed in large measure to Ontario starting to get back on its feet after the blackout.

The IMO, Hydro One, OPG, OEB and Bruce Power have all thoroughly reviewed their operations and made important technical and operational changes to further

improve our ability to respond to these types of events. There have also been additional actions in addressing our province's "black start" capability; that is, when the power goes right down to

nothing, it takes power to get the nuclear reactors back up. These are being done in accordance with the system requirements that we have.

TAXATION

Mr Michael Prue (Beaches-East York): My question is to the Premier. You have proved over these last several months that you are adept at

reaching into the pockets of ordinary Ontarians, a virtual modern-day Artful Dodger. First there was the 8% soup-and-salad tax. Then there was the out-of-control gas taxes that you and your cabinet

promised to control. Now we have the spectre of stealth property tax increases.

In the past, education property taxes were reduced as property values rose, and the new rate was always revenue-neutral. My question to you is, will you

continue with this policy, or is it your plan to make a secret property tax grab of $600 million by simply doing nothing?

Hon Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): The Minister of Finance.

Hon Greg Sorbara (Minister of Finance): I'm surprised that my friend from Beaches-East York's research is so out of date. This is a question

that could have been asked perhaps a month ago, but if he had done any follow-up work between last month and this, he would have found that we have set education tax rates for this year. We have

lowered the rate to 0.296% in order to make sure that overall across the province the effective rate is absolutely revenue-neutral; that is, people will be paying the same amount this year as they

did last year. If the member wants a quick tutor update on what has happened, I'd be delighted to meet him after question period.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Supplementary?

Mr Prue: No, thank you.

WATER QUALITY

Mr John Yakabuski (Renfrew-Nipissing-Pembroke): My question today is for the Minister of the Environment. We've been getting feedback

throughout the province on regulation 170/03. I have been getting it from my riding and stakeholders in my riding. I'm sure, as a member with a sizable rural contingent, you've been hearing it too,

as all rural members have.

The implementation of this regulation will bring unprecedented hardship to stakeholders in my riding and all across rural Ontario. It is being mean-spirited in

its implementation. I understand that two of your own ministers speculated that there may be some changes. Minister, I'm asking you today: Will you stand and do the right thing and halt this

regulation now before the damage to businesses and community halls and campgrounds in rural Ontario is irreversible?

Hon Leona Dombrowsky (Minister of the Environment): I certainly have been hearing a great deal from people right across Ontario around

regulation 170, that was crafted by the previous government. It's interesting that the honourable member now suggests he has been receiving lots of feedback. I would suggest that, had the previous

government looked for more feedback before the implementation of regulation 170, we would not find ourselves in the situation we are in today.

I can commit to the honourable member that, in addition to our government's commitment to ensure that we have safe drinking water across the province, we most

definitely are prepared to deal with regulation 170 and ensure that communities across Ontario will have a regulation they can work with.

Mr Yakabuski: My supplementary is to the Minister of the Environment as well. The unprecedented opposition to this regulation transcends

simply stakeholders and people who are going to be directly affected; it affects all members of the community. Businesses within the villages where there is a treated water system are feeling the

effects of this as well, because they're going to be affected financially if this is not pulled back.

We have discussed in our ridings, and our stakeholders have discussed, the tremendous financial hardship that this is going to have on them. Have you talked to

the Minister of Finance and have you studied and looked at what the ramifications will be to the finances of this government if these businesses start to close because of the implementation of this

regulation?

Hon Mrs Dombrowsky: It's very obvious that the previous government did none of the consultation that the honourable member is suggesting we

should be doing now.

On Saturday, I actually had the pleasure of meeting with some of the honourable member's constituents. I have explained that --

Interjection: Nice folks.

Hon Mrs Dombrowsky: They are lovely people, and they had very valid issues. I was very happy to listen to what they had to say. I was able to

share with them that this week I will be making an announcement on regulation 170 and describing this government's plan to deal with the mess that we inherited from your government.

TOURISM

Mr Khalil Ramal (London-Fanshawe): My question is for the Minister of Tourism and Recreation. Ontario truly is a province that is yours to

discover, with a multitude of places to visit, things to do and sights to see. As you know, this resource, known as our tourist industry, plays an important role in the economy of all communities

across this province. What are your ministry's plans to market Ontario across the country and around the world?

Hon James J. Bradley (Minister of Tourism and Recreation): It's an excellent question and I think I can find some material here that will fit

it. I want to tell the member that my ministry continues to aggressively market the province of Ontario, as he would know, in a variety of ways aimed at improving the provincial image in the minds

of consumers and increasing the number of tourist dollars being spent. This government has wisely invested in marketing dollars and advertisements widely seen in US publications which draw valuable

American tourists to this province.

Now listen to this: To assist in this effort I spent the morning extolling the virtues of Ontario on several Buffalo radio stations. The people who listened

live close to the Canadian border and serve as an excellent market for potential tourists.

While my ministry recognizes the importance of Toronto as a valuable resource to tourism experience in Ontario -- as we've shown evidence of that -- we're

interested right across the province. Only last week Tim Peterson, my PA, announced $375,000 for marketing for Muskoka. We produce experience guides in both languages. We serve consumer guides,

trip-guiding guides --

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Thank you. I'm sure you'll get that going in the supplementary.

Mr Ramal: Minister, I'm pleased we are letting the world know about our beautiful province. The job of promoting tourism also falls on the

shoulders of municipalities and townships across this province. In my riding of London-Fanshawe, the city of London, along with many cultural organizations, is promoting our city and its

attractions in unique and innovative ways. Minister, what plan does your ministry have to support local communities and their effort to promote tourism?

Hon Mr Bradley: Regional managers and tourism industry consultants from the Ministry of Tourism and Recreation work with the operators of the

attractions and accommodations to build packages and develop products that will draw people to a local area. This government believes the best results can be achieved working with municipalities

and with the industry, and together we are enhancing the diversity of experiences and attractions that Ontario has to offer.

In the case of your riding, my ministry worked with Tourism London to develop a marketing package, and $100,000 in provincial funding was recently provided to

assist the Forest City in achieving our tourism goals. Also, I would like to congratulate the city of London on their recent successful bid for the 2005 Memorial Cup, an event sure to draw tourists

from across the country. By using such tools as the premier-ranked tourism destination framework and the destination marketing partnership fund, my ministry will help re-energize and revitalize the

tourism industry with Ontario communities.

ROAD SAFETY

Mr Garfield Dunlop (Simcoe North): My question today is for the Minister of Transportation. On May 6, I asked you a very clear question. I

asked you to name the specific police agencies which you consulted before drafting Bill 73. This is the act that refers to specific weights, heights and ages of children while in transit. In order

to enforce Bill 73, it will require a lot of resources by our police services. You responded, "Yes ... I have talked to the police forces and they're very supportive of this legislation." Minister,

please specify by name exactly which police services or associations you consulted before you drafted Bill 73.

Hon Harinder S. Takhar (Minister of Transportation): I don't have all the names with me. I will be more than pleased to share those with the

honourable member.

Interjection: Name one of them.

Hon Mr Takhar: Peel police. I talked to them personally.

Mr Dunlop: Minister, I'm sorry for that answer. The Police Association of Ontario was not consulted on this legislation, and it represents

22,000 uniformed and civilian members of police services across our province, nor was the Ontario Association of Chiefs of Police, which has more than 1,000 members. In fact, the Ontario

Association of Chiefs of Police was asked to send a representative to act as a human prop at your press conference but has yet to even form an official opinion on the legislation. They're doing

that, as we speak, at a conference.

Minister, why would you tell this House, and why would you tell Ontarians, that police were consulted on this legislation when in fact they weren't? Why would

you do that to the men and women who are expected to enforce the legislation without the 1,000 police officers you and Dalton McGuinty promised to the citizens of our province?

Hon Mr Takhar: Last week, I was at the opening of a police centre in Peel region, and there were police forces from almost all of Ontario

present there. Most of them complimented me on the introduction of this legislation. Not only that, but all the other stakeholders have been very supportive of this legislation, and I'm really

proud that we were able to introduce this legislation which, if passed, will save lives here in Ontario.

ENVIRONMENT AWARDS

Mr Lorenzo Berardinetti (Scarborough Southwest): My question is to the Minister of the Environment. Like many Ontarians, the environment and

our relationship to the environment is of great concern to me. We've seen citizens and community groups taking positive steps toward conservation and preservation. While these movements have been

the most obvious, private business and institutions have been making significant contributions to Ontario's environmental health.

Minister, you recently attended the Canadian Council of Ministers of the Environment Pollution Prevention Awards in Ottawa. Could you advise this House how

Ontario performed at these awards?

Hon Leona Dombrowsky (Minister of the Environment): I'm delighted to have this opportunity to inform the House that there were five awards

presented at the Canadian Council of Ministers of the Environment Pollution Prevention Awards. Three of those awards went to Ontario companies. Beach Solar Laundromat, which is located in the

Beaches community in Toronto, have promoted pollution prevention in their community by using green technologies. They've actually installed solar panels on the roof of their operation and heat all

of the water for their operation with them. Warren's Imaging and Dryography has lowered their energy consumption and reduced emissions and solid waste, becoming the industry leader in waterless

printing. Lastly, The Hospital for Sick Children was recognized for its progress in reducing gaseous, liquid and solid waste emissions. This is complemented by their conservation of power and

water. That is an example of institutional conservation in the province.

Mr Berardinetti: It's good to hear that Ontario businesses and institutions are being recognized for their creative pollution prevention

initiatives. How can your ministry encourage and support other companies and institutions to follow the lead of these award winners?

Hon Mrs Dombrowsky: We believe it's very important that the provincial government play a role in showcasing best environmental practices. The

ministry does have several projects underway to support pollution prevention. The ministry contributes to funding the Clean Air Foundation, which supports pollution-prevention-based programs like

Mow Down Pollution. The Ontario government also has the Ontario Environment Business Directory, managed by the Ministry of the Environment. It is a tool that can be used by industry to identify

providers of environmental goods and services that can assist industry in meeting pollution prevention goals. Also, the Green Industry Office, which is managed by Ministry of the Environment,

assists Ontario-based companies offering products, services and technologies to prevent pollution and to protect or clean up our environment. Also, my ministry participates each year in the Globe

conference, where we take the opportunity to showcase green technologies available in Ontario to the rest of Canada and North America.

WATER QUALITY

Ms Marilyn Churley (Toronto-Danforth): My question is for the Minister of the Environment. You've refused to review the Conservative well

water regulation that has been described by the Canadian environmental law association as inefficient and unenforceable, and your refusal as alarming and shocking. You were quoted in a CP story

that in your perspective, and in the perspective of the MOE staff, regulation 903 is adequate. I want to ask you, in arriving to this view, did you consult with the provincial well coordinator,

your own expert on this issue?

Hon Leona Dombrowsky (Minister of the Environment): With regard to regulation 903, we consulted the Walkerton inquiry report. We read what

Justice O'Connor had to say in terms of what is the government's responsibility with regard to protecting well water. O'Connor was really very clear. He indicated that the provincial government

should provide the public with information about how to supply water safely and should ensure that this information is well distributed. The government should also maintain a system of licensing

well drillers and ensure the easy availability of microbiological tests. That is, in fact, what is accomplished in regulation 903.

Ms Churley: You didn't answer my question. I asked if you've consulted with your own expert on this. You're breaking your own promise if you

don't allow a review of this. It is unbelievable that, post-Walkerton, you are actually lowering standards for our drinking water. Minister, I'm going to ask, will you make the commitment today to

speak to the Ontario well coordinator, your own expert, about regulation 903, and then report back to this House what he has to say about the effectiveness of this regulation in ensuring public

health and safety? Will you consult with this expert and report back to this House?

Hon Mrs Dombrowsky: This government has an initiative underway, the source water protection initiative. We have established two committees,

the implementation committee and the technical experts committee. These are made up of experts in their field from across the province who are charged with the responsibility to provide this

minister with recommendations on how to ensure that all source water in this province is protected. We are awaiting the reports of those committees to provide us with direction to ensure that on a

go-forward basis our legislation and our regulations will do just that: ensure that water is safe in Ontario.

RED HILL CREEK EXPRESSWAY

Mr Frank Klees (Oak Ridges): My question is to the Minister of Transportation. On Saturday I had the opportunity to be in the great city of

Hamilton with our Conservative candidate, Tara Crugnale. While we were there, we challenged your candidate to sign an IOU on behalf of the people of Hamilton, and it related to the Red Hill Creek

Expressway. The fact of the matter is that after many years, that expressway is finally going ahead. As a result of an extended period of time and extended environmental assessments, the costs of

that expressway have increased significantly.

Minister, you will know that we had committed to support funding to 75% of that cost. The IOU that we challenged your candidate to sign was to match that and

to in fact come up with the $55 million that Hamilton will require as the 75% contribution to make that project a reality. Will you stand in your place today and agree that you will honour your

candidate's call and our call to match that level of funding?

Hon Harinder S. Takhar (Minister of Transportation): Let me just tell you what we are doing about Hamilton in terms of the Red Hill Creek

Expressway. We are absolutely committed to providing $106 million regarding the Red Hill Creek Expressway. In addition to that, we are fully committed to funding 100% of the interchange with the

QEW. This government is not just talking about it; we are actually going to do it and we're going to provide funding for it.

Mr Klees: Why am I not surprised that the minister didn't answer the question? The minister will know that an additional $19 million of costs

have been identified by the city of Hamilton. Will the minister stand in his place today and confirm for the House and the people of Hamilton that he will, as the Minister of Transportation, commit

that additional funding? Will he do that today?

Hon Mr Takhar: My friend from Oak Ridges seems to have a lot of ideas after leaving his portfolio. He tells me he has this commitment and that

commitment. He told me he had a deal with the 407, which we never found. I asked him in writing if he could provide me one. He couldn't do that. Now he tells me he had a commitment for the people

of Hamilton. We are absolutely committed to providing $106 million, and in addition we will be fully funding the QEW interchange.

SCHOOL SAFETY

Mrs Liz Sandals (Guelph-Wellington): My question is for the Minister of Education. On Friday you made an announcement at the character and

citizenship conference. You announced the expansion of a pilot project that has been shown to reduce bullying and aggression in children while increasing their emotional literacy. Can you give us a

little bit more detail about the program and how it will help to reduce bullying in our schools?

Hon Gerard Kennedy (Minister of Education): I'm very pleased to report to the House that the government has taken an initiative to try to get

at what really is easy to call a scourge but hard to do something about. Bullying exists in every school we have. We have rules about what to do when bullying goes wrong and harms somebody, but

very little in terms of coherent effort underway to prevent bullying. This is what this program is about. It's called Roots of Empathy. It puts infants from a neighbourhood in a school with young

children and tries to bring out those aspects of their emotional well-being to make sure it develops at the same time as other aspects, because we have found there's a strong connection between

bullies and the absence of that development. It's a proactive program, proven to work, that is now going to be available in 80 more locations around the province.

Mrs Sandals: Minister. I'm absolutely thrilled you're going to be providing pilot funding for Roots of Empathy. This is a program I've been a

big fan of for a long time. One of my frustrations in my former role as president of the public school boards' association was that the former government would not fund Roots of Empathy.

Could you, however, tell us a little bit more about how this is going to improve access to bullying programs for schools all across the province?

Hon Gerard Kennedy: Thank you to the member opposite who, from both her former and present interests, has helped us to develop some of our

thinking around safe schools. This particular program -- everyone should know about it -- was a made-in-Ontario innovation, using very basic technology, if you like. They were just insights that

were brought together by Mary Gordon and an organization called Roots of Empathy. But to get funding they had to go to the provinces of British Columbia and Alberta. They couldn't get funding in

their own home province -- from the province at large -- and school boards were having to scrape together dollars. This will allow boards that never had the program before to access it. It will

allow boards that have had the program but are having a hard time hanging on to it make sure they'll be in a better position to do it.

It costs us only about $25 per child for the entire year, or a dollar per session. This is a cost-effective program, but because it was about prevention,

because it was about public schools doing better, for some reason it couldn't attract the attention of the previous government.

Research in British Columbia showed 88% of the kids exposed to it had reduced aggressive tendencies. This program has a new component for research to make sure

we have the full benefit now --

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Thank you. New question.

GASOLINE PRICES

Mr Norm Miller (Parry Sound-Muskoka): My question is for the Minister of Northern Development and Mines. When in opposition you said, "Gas

prices all over Ontario continue to be too high and the government of Mike Harris is doing nothing about it. The Liberals have given the Minister of Consumer and Commercial Relations a solution,

but we see no action from the Mike Harris government."

Minister, I asked you this question last week and you didn't talk about your solution in your response. Could you try again? Northerners want to know what your

solution to high gas prices is.

Hon Rick Bartolucci (Minister of Northern Development and Mines): The question is a valid one. As Minister of Northern Development and Mines,

I believe it's incumbent that the petroleum products industry understand the significant impact that gas prices have on the people of northern Ontario. So within the last two weeks I met with the

senior vice-president and representatives of the Canadian petroleum price industries, because I believe it's critical that they understand there is a negative impact from higher gas prices in

northern Ontario. It was the first time in many years that they met with a northern minister. I believe the Minister of Northern Development and Mines should be articulating the concerns of

northerners.

What I did in opposition I would never apologize for. We had a government in place for eight years, before we took over, that did absolutely nothing for

northern Ontario. Therefore, we in the opposition had to be very creative and articulate the concerns of northerners.

Mr Miller: Minister, I hope you were talking about your solution, because you said you have a solution: "The Liberals have given the Minister

of Consumer and Commercial Relations a solution." I'd like to hear about that solution.

In the north an automobile is not a luxury; it is a necessity. Your government has made announcements of extra funding for the TTC. In the north, there is no

public transit in most locations. As Minister of Northern Development and Mines, how do you intend to help northerners, who rely on an automobile, to deal with these record high prices? Tell us

about your solution, Minister.

Hon Mr Bartolucci: Clearly, the people of northern Ontario should understand that our solution will not be appointing gas busters. We will not

be sending people across the province of Ontario. We will not be raising false expectations or hopes, and we will not, as the previous government did, make 14 recommendations and address only one

of them.

Mr Ernie Parsons (Prince Edward-Hastings): My question today is to the Minister of Citizenship. On May 3, 2004, the Prime Minister and our

Premier announced new funding to assist persons with disabilities in gaining access to employment. While this was a positive step, the location chosen for the announcement was one of concern for

disability advocates. In 2001, Famous Players was found to have violated the human rights of Ontarians with disabilities. This was in regard to significant barriers faced for individuals with

disabilities when they tried to enjoy the services.

continues to be a very serious issue for many individuals. Minister, with over 1.5 million Ontarians -- an estimated 13.5% of the population -- living with a disability, and considering that these

Hon Marie Bountrogianni (Minister of Children and Youth Services, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration): I'd like to thank my colleague not

only for the question but for the wonderful work he did in opposition as the critic in this area.

the McGuinty government is committed to strengthening the Ontarians with Disabilities Act. Our government is committed to building a province where all people have the opportunity to fully

participate and achieve their potential. We have just completed a series of consultations, and we are reviewing the data in order to strengthen the Ontarians with Disabilities Act.

PETITIONS

TILLSONBURG DISTRICT

MEMORIAL HOSPITAL

Mr Ernie Hardeman (Oxford): I have a petition from a group of names. It now has upwards of 6,000 signatures.

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the Tillsonburg District Memorial Hospital has asked for ministerial consent to make capital changes to its facility to accommodate the placement of a

satellite dialysis unit; and

"Whereas the Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care has already given approval for the unit and committed operational dollars to it; and

"Whereas the community has already raised the funds for the equipment needed;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care give his final approval of the capital request change from the Tillsonburg District Memorial Hospital

immediately, so those who are in need of these life-sustaining dialysis services can receive them locally, thereby enjoying a better quality of life without further delay."

I affix my signature to this petition as I totally agree with it.

PENSION PLANS

Mr Peter Kormos (Niagara Centre): I have a petition addressed to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario. It reads:

"Whereas Stelpipe Ltd and Welland Pipe Ltd are currently operating under the protection of the Companies' Creditors Arrangement Act (CCAA) as part of the

restructuring process being undertaken by Stelco Inc; and

"Whereas there is a significant unfunded liability in the Stelpipe and Welland Pipe pension plans for hourly employees; and

"Whereas there will be a significant negative impact on the pensions of both active employees and retirees in the event of a windup of these pension plans;

and

"Whereas the pension benefits guarantee fund (PBGF) does not protect the entire amount of accrued pension benefits; and

"Whereas the PBGF may not have sufficient assets to provide such protection;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"(1) to amend the provisions of the PBGF in order that it provides complete coverage and protection for the accrued pension benefits of all pension plan

members;

"(2) to amend the financing provisions for the PBGF in order to ensure that sufficient funds are available to provide for the complete protection of all

accrued pension benefits;

"(3) to take interim action as required in order to provide immediate protection of the accrued pension benefits of both active employees and retirees of

Stelpipe and Welland Pipe."

I have signed this petition as well.

PRIMARY CARE

Mr Jeff Leal (Peterborough): "To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

physicians; and

"Whereas the community of Peterborough has demonstrated extraordinary strong local leadership in developing a proposal for primary care reform which is very

innovative and will provide access to primary care for the growing list of more than 20,000 residents in our community without a family physician; and

"Whereas this proposal has been endorsed by the county of Peterborough, the city of Peterborough, the Peterborough County Medical Society, the Peterborough

Community Care Access Centre, the Peterborough Regional Health Centre and the Peterborough County-City Health Unit;" --

Mr Ted McMeekin (Ancaster-Dundas-Flamborough-Aldershot): What a group.

Mr Leal: An extraordinary group.

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"To work with representatives of the local community to ensure that all residents of Peterborough have access to an appropriate primary care provider through

the timely implementation of the proposed integrated primary care model, as this model provides appropriate and equitable compensation for family physicians while incorporating sufficient

interdisciplinary health care providers, community linkages and appropriate administrative, infrastructure and information technology supports to enable health professionals to enjoy a more

realistic, healthy work-life balance."

I'll put my name to this petition.

ONTARIO DRUG BENEFIT PROGRAM

Mr Tim Hudak (Erie-Lincoln): I'm pleased to present a petition on behalf of seniors. This group in Fort Erie includes Norma Jean Garlow and

the Caverson family, and it reads as follows:

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas during the election campaign the Dalton McGuinty Liberals said they would improve the Ontario drug benefit program but now are considering delisting

drugs and imposing higher user fees; and

"Whereas the Liberal government has increased costs to seniors by taking away the seniors' property tax rebate and increased the price of hydro;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"The Dalton McGuinty Liberals should keep their campaign promise to improve the Ontario drug benefit program and abandon their plan to delist drugs or increase

seniors' drug fees."

In support, my signature.

SENIOR CITIZENS

Mr Ted McMeekin (Ancaster-Dundas-Flamborough-Aldershot): I have another petition relating to the issue of senior care.

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly as follows:

"To immediately commit to action and funding to ensure the rights and protections for our senior citizens living in nursing homes and retirement homes"

throughout "Ontario."

LONG-TERM CARE

Mr John O'Toole (Durham): I have a petition from the Ontario Federation of Health Care Workers local 1110. This is with respect to the issue

of long-term-care cutbacks.

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas on April 22, 2004, the Ontario government announced $60 million in funding cuts to the seniors living in long-term care in Ontario; and

"Whereas the impact on long-term care results in a reduction that is equivalent to the elimination of an entire housekeeping and laundry services department in

each long-term-care facility;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Liberal government to reverse this decision and immediately reinstate full and equitable funding to long-term care in

Ontario."

I'm pleased to sign this in support of long-term care in my riding of Durham.

ONTARIO BUDGET

Mr Lorenzo Berardinetti (Scarborough Southwest): I have a petition here and it reads as follows:

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the parliamentary tradition in Ontario of presenting annual budgets in the House of the Legislative Assembly has existed for decades; and

"Whereas the previous government in 2003 showed disrespect for our public institutions and the people of Ontario by presenting a budget inside a private,

for-profit auto parts factory; and

"Whereas the previous Speaker of the Legislative Assembly condemned the actions of his own party's government;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to uphold parliamentary tradition and hold a public presentation and debate of the 2004

budget, and every budget thereafter, by our publicly elected members of Parliament inside the legislative chamber."

I've signed this petition, as I agree with it.

WATER QUALITY

Mr John Yakabuski (Renfrew-Nipissing-Pembroke): I have a petition concerning the new Ontario Safe Drinking Water Act, 2002, regulation

170/03.

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the Ontario government is implementing regulation 170/03, and in doing so will affect town halls, churches and private property owners including small

businesses, local community centres and campgrounds; and

"Whereas meeting the requirements of regulation 170/03 has meant and will mean excessive costs and financial burdens for all drinking water system owners;

and

"Whereas there is no demonstrated proof that this new regulation will improve drinking water that has been and continues to be safe in rural municipalities;

and

"Whereas Ontario regulation 170/03 was passed without adequate consultation with stakeholders throughout Ontario; and

"Whereas stakeholders should have been consulted concerning the necessity, efficacy, economic, environmental and health impacts on rural Ontario;

"Therefore,

be it resolved that the Legislative Assembly of Ontario abandon the implementation of and immediately repeal regulation 170/03, as well as amending

the pertinent enabling legislation;

"We, the undersigned, support the attached petition."

I signed it as well.

ALEXANDER GRAHAM BELL PARKWAY

Mr Kim Craitor (Niagara Falls): I'm pleased to present the petition on behalf of my riding.

"Whereas Alexander Graham Bell, renowned inventor of society-altering technological inventions, such as the telephone, greatly revolutionized the daily lives

of people in Ontario, Canada and indeed the world; and

"Whereas Alexander Graham Bell's contributions to science, technology and society as a whole, were in part developed and tested while he lived in Brantford,

Ontario; and

"Whereas Brantford lies at the heart of the

section of 403 which runs from Woodstock to Burlington;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"To adopt and pass into law Dave Levac's private member's bill, Bill 44, the Alexander Graham Bell Parkway Act, renaming Highway 403 between Woodstock and

Burlington as a tribute to this great inventor."

I'm pleased to affix my signature.

GASOLINE PRICES

Mr Gerry Martiniuk (Cambridge): This is a petition to the Parliament of Ontario signed by good citizens of Cambridge.

"Whereas gasoline prices have increased at alarming rates during the past year; and

"Whereas the high and different gas prices in different areas of Ontario have caused confusion and unfair hardship on hard-working Cambridge families;

"We, the undersigned, hereby petition the Parliament of Ontario as follows:

"

(1) That the Ontario McGuinty Liberal government immediately freeze gas prices for a temporary period until world oil prices moderate; and

"

(2) That the Ontario McGuinty Liberal government and the federal Martin Liberal government immediately lower their taxes on gas for a temporary period until

world oil prices moderate; and

"

(3) That the Ontario McGuinty Liberal government immediately initiate a royal commission to investigate the predatory gas prices charged by oil companies

operating in Ontario."

DRIVER EXAMINATIONS FOR SENIORS

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): The member for Niagara Centre.

Mr Peter Kormos (Niagara Centre): Thank you, Speaker. I'm so grateful to you. Indeed, I'm probably indebted -- not likely.

I have a petition addressed to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario which reads:

"Whereas regarding the AZ driver testing, we, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"The following are some of the concerns which truck drivers and driver-owners between the ages of 65 and 75 years have incurred:

"We feel that the province of Ontario discriminates against AZ drivers once they reach the age of 65 by requiring them to be retested in the same manner as a

person who has no experience, ie, written test, air brake test, road test, medical and vision. These tests can become very costly by losing time off work; renting or leasing equipment for road

tests.

"This form of testing is only required by the province of Ontario. Every other province in Canada and every state in the United States only requires vision and

medical exams for licence renewal.

"A driver's history can be checked through the licence point system and also through CVOR system. The testing system in Ontario is so overloaded with new

applicants, it doesn't make sense to require drivers with 25-30 years' experience to add to the problem by being tested. Some drivers have to make appointments 100 miles from their home to be

retested before their birthday. There are cases where an independent owner-operator has been tested and failed and not been able to drive his own truck home because his licences have been

downgraded on the spot. Now he has to absorb more costs to get his equipment home. It seems common sense has become rather uncommon.

Mr Shafiq Qaadri (Etobicoke North): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: This does not follow the format of a petition; it's a speech.

The Deputy Speaker: Thank you for your advice. It's been approved, I take it.

Mr Kormos: Thank you, Speaker. Where was I?

"The ministry seems to have the attitude that once we reach 65 years of age, we wake up one morning and forget everything we ever learned. Maybe we should hold

our doctors, lawyers and especially our political leaders to the same standard.

"We feel that an annual medical and vision test should be adequate to maintain our AZ driving privilege."

I have affixed my signature as well.

ONTARIO BUDGET

Mr Shafiq Qaadri (Etobicoke North): I have a petition addressed to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario.

"Whereas the parliamentary tradition in Ontario of presenting annual budgets in the House of the Legislative Assembly has existed for decades; and

"Whereas the previous government in 2003 showed disrespect for our public institutions and the people of Ontario by presenting a budget inside a private,

for-profit auto parts factory; and

"Whereas the previous Speaker of the Legislative Assembly" himself "condemned the actions of his own party's government;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to uphold parliamentary tradition and hold a public presentation and debate of the 2004

budget, and every budget thereafter, by our publicly elected members of Parliament inside the legislative chamber."

I affix my signature, as I am in hearty agreement.

PROPERTY TAXATION

Mr John O'Toole (Durham): I'm pleased to present a petition to the Parliament of Ontario.

"Whereas recreational trailers kept at parks and campgrounds in Ontario are being assessed by the Municipal Property Assessment Corp (MPAC) and are subject to

property taxes; and

"Whereas owners of these trailers are seasonal and occasional residents who contribute to the local tourism economy without requiring significant municipal

services; and

"Whereas the added burden of this taxation will make it impossible for many families of modest income to afford their holiday sites at parks and

campgrounds;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, respectfully petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That these seasonal trailers not be subject to retroactive taxation for the year 2003; and that the tax not be imposed in 2004; and that no such tax be

introduced without consultation with owners of the trailers and trailer parks, municipal governments, businesses, the tourism sector and other stakeholders."

I'm pleased to sign this in support of the constituents throughout Ontario who are outraged about this retroactive, regressive tax.

ONTARIO BUDGET

Mr Jeff Leal (Peterborough): "To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the parliamentary tradition in Ontario of presenting annual budgets in the House of the Legislative Assembly has existed for decades; and

"Whereas the previous government in 2003 showed great disrespect for our public institutions and the people of Ontario by presenting a budget inside a private,

for-profit auto parts factory; and

"Whereas the previous Speaker of the Legislative Assembly," -- the Honourable Gary Carr -- "condemned the actions of his own party's government;

"We, the undersigned, therefore petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to uphold parliamentary tradition and hold a public presentation and debate of the

2004 budget, and every budget thereafter, by our publicly elected members of Parliament inside the legislative chamber."

I will sign this petition.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

AUDIT STATUTE LAW

AMENDMENT ACT, 2003 /

LOI DE 2003 MODIFIANT DES LOIS

EN CE QUI CONCERNE LA VÉRIFICATION

DES COMPTES PUBLICS

Resuming the debate adjourned on April 19, 2004, on the motion for second reading of Bill 18,

An Act respecting the Provincial Auditor / Projet de loi 18,

Loi concernant le vérificateur provincial.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr Bruce Crozier): The member for Simcoe North has the floor.

Mr Garfield Dunlop (Simcoe North): I understand I have five or six minutes left in my comments from the previous day of debate. I'm pleased

again to stand and make a few comments on Bill 18,

An Act respecting the Provincial Auditor.

It was brought forward by the Honourable Greg Sorbara, the Minister of Finance, who will have a very difficult job coming up next Tuesday, May 18, budget day.

It should be an interesting budget, trying to keep all those promises made to the citizens of Ontario, particularly that one promise. Mr Speaker, you probably remember that one, where Mr McGuinty

says on TV, "I will not raise your taxes." That will be the most interesting piece of the budget we've ever seen.

I'm hearing today some of these pathetic petitions on keeping the budget in the House. If you remember, just to put it on the record, the budget in 2003 was

read outside of this House, only. All pre-budget consultations, all debate, all the lead-up, all the committee hearings, everything was done according to what you would call parliamentary tradition

and it was done in the Parliament of Ontario. You tried to demonize our government for doing something very innovative at the time, and of course we paid for that. We lost the election. There's no

question about it.

That was seven months ago, and they're still treating us like the government. We've had seven months to listen to this nonsense of the Liberals trying to

demonize the Conservatives. Now, here we are with this new Bill 18,

An Act respecting the Provincial Auditor, and we're going to debate that as well.

One of the things I'm really concerned about is the democratic renewal process that we talk about and how it fits into fixed election dates and the

Americanization of politics here in Ontario. I wonder, will we be called governors and congressmen and all those sorts of titles or will we remain MPPs? I'm curious about that because, as you try

to work into fixed election dates, you are definitely Americanizing the politics here in Ontario.

I know that's one of Mr Sorbara's pet peeves. He'd just love to have fixed election dates. He had a private member's bill on this and he went out of his mind

when we called it the Americanization of Ontario politics, prior to his being the Minister of Finance, back when he was on the front row right over here. He was very upset about that.

On this side of the House, we call this the Sheila Fraser act, because, of course, what a neat year to bring out a Provincial Auditor -- an Auditor General is

what it will be called. This is the one year we've got an Auditor General who's really out there, working hand in hand and doing her very best to clean up what we would call, basically, corruption

in our federal system. We don't know how many millions it is now. I guess it's over a billion dollars that had been paid to advertising firms, etc.

Yes, I agree with Sheila Fraser. We need to have more accountability and more transparency. There's no question in my mind about that. Sheila Fraser has

brought that forward in Ottawa. I give her a lot of credit as the Auditor General for a job that I consider well done under extreme pressure from the new Prime Minister, Paul Martin, who thought he

was going to coast to victory with 51% of the support of Canadians back in October when he took over the role. Now he's dwindled down to, what, 27% or 28%? He looks like the cat that swallowed the

canary right now when you see him out in public. I guess he's afraid. He's obviously afraid because he may, in fact, not gain a majority government, may not gain a minority government, and he's got

his back against the wall because of the transparency that we could not see in the federal system.

I know that when we go through this bill, there are a lot of very interesting points to bring forward, but we look forward to it going to committee. We look

forward to the comments that will be made at the committee, bringing in different people to speak on this particular bill. I'm interested a lot more in how the bill affects democratic renewal here

interested in how all these sorts of things will come together as a piece of legislation.

I know that some of my other colleagues have a few comments to make today as well. I want to thank God that it's finally got warm out, because it will help our

tourism operators to have some nice weather, but I'm telling you, this building is like an oven here. I don't know how everybody else is finding it. It's very warm as far as I'm concerned. But

hopefully the nice weather will bring out the golfers and get our recreational activities going, the resorts around the province. There are a lot of people who have had a difficult winter and a

very, very difficult 2003, with SARS, mad cow, the blackout and all those sorts of things. So let's hope we do have a good summer this year and that the tourism operators thrive.

I was glad to hear the Minister of Tourism this afternoon mention very briefly some of the programs the government's operating -- of course, the programs that

our government had as part of the Ontario tourism marketing partnership. They are programs that are well worth marketing our great province.

So, Mr Speaker, I look forward to more debate on Bill 18, the Auditor General act or the Sheila Fraser act, and I thank you for this opportunity to speak to it

today.

The Deputy Speaker: Questions or comments?

Mr Peter Kormos (Niagara Centre): I'm going to be taking the floor in around eight minutes' time to speak to this bill on behalf of the NDP,

but during the course of these two minutes, I think it's interesting -- oh yes, the Sheila Fraser bill, how interesting -- because, hot off the wires, on the Globe and Mail Web site, I just read

the news item that charges have finally been laid.

Two actors busted in Ottawa -- "popped," as they say out on the street -- undoubtedly not having to rely upon their legal aid duty counsel lawyers. I read in

the paper, just fresh, as I say, hot off the wires, one Mr Charles Guité charged with six counts of fraud, totalling $1,967,000. Another accused is one Jean Brault, the president of

Groupaction Marketing, also charged with six counts of fraud, totalling $1,967,000.

What's newsworthy -- because, of course, these people are presumed innocent -- is that Mr Guité is now going to sing like the proverbial Tweety Bird. Mr

Guité is now highly motivated to talk like he's never talked before. Mr Guité is now highly motivated to no longer protect political players in this scandal. In fact, if anything, he has,

I dare say, an incentive to let the cat out of the bag, to spill the beans.

Interruption.

Mr Kormos: That's OK. That child is better behaved than most of the members of the Legislature ever have been, I tell you. She's welcome here

any time.

So I'm looking forward to -- there was a young person --

Mr Dave Levac (Brant): You scared her.

Mr Kormos: That's right. This is a scary place for children. It's a scary place for any rational person. But there's a young child up in the

gallery who wanted to participate in the debate. Quite frankly, her contribution seemed as valid as any that has been made today.

I will be speaking to this in a few minutes' time and look forward to the opportunity.

The Deputy Speaker: Questions and comments? The member for, and I want to get it right, Stormont-Dundas -- no, I'm going to get it wrong.

Interjection: Ajax-Pickering-Whitby.

The Deputy Speaker: Ajax-Pickering-Whitby. I apologize. I get the two of you mixed up.

Mr Wayne Arthurs (Pickering-Ajax-Uxbridge): We're close, but I'm not sure the member opposite, who's from Whitby-Ajax, would necessarily

appreciate that. It's Pickering-Ajax-Uxbridge, at least for the balance of this Parliament. Subsequently, the riding will be redefined yet again. It seems to be redefined each and every time

there's a realignment, and probably that speaks in part to Bill 18 and redefining the Provincial Auditor as the Auditor General into more current parlance, as well as some of the roles. But my

riding, as I was just saying, has gone from Pickering to Pickering-Ajax to Pickering-Ajax-Uxbridge. Next time around, it will be either Ajax-Pickering or Pickering-Scarborough East. It's a constant

change.

The change from the Provincial Auditor to Auditor General will, as I say, bring things into more current parlance in respect of the function and descriptors of

that particular role. But it's really interesting, as you begin reading the legislation itself, some of the items that have come to the fore that the public wouldn't be aware of and how important a

role the Auditor General will be playing if this legislation is passed.

I want to draw attention just to one part, and that's

section 11, the power to examine under oath. It says, "The Auditor General may examine any person on oath

on any matter pertinent to an audit or examination under this act." That speaks highly, I think, to the democratic principles by which we operate and highly to the Auditor General and that

function: to be able to call upon individuals to provide evidence under oath, to ensure that the finances of the province of Ontario are being managed in a fashion appropriate with the legalities

of good fiscal management. This is good legislation that will reflect well on this Legislature.

Mr John O'Toole (Durham): I have spoken in the past on this Bill 18 by Mr Sorbara, but I was impressed when listening to the comments made by

the member from Simcoe North. He does put his heart into a couple of very good issues that I think need to be listened to, and his advice respectfully to the Minister of Finance, Mr Sorbara, in his

considerations for the role of the auditor. That is that our federal experience -- you know, when you see Sheila Fraser, the work she has done, I think the same empowerment here in Ontario -- I

have nothing whatever to criticize on any of that.

Paul Martin in Ottawa, if you want to look at a Liberal example of what's going on, is kind of shutting down the Liberal-dominated public accounts committee,

not allowing them to report because, "There's an election." I'm not sure if it's the $100-million scandal, for those viewing, that the Liberals in Ottawa are trying to cover up.

I look forward to the expanded role. I'll be supportive of the expanded role of the auditor. There are a couple of sections here: the freedom to ask questions,

and certainly under the Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act -- I don't want to suggest it, but the more intrusive government becomes, the more the privacy of the individual becomes

a concern to me and to others. If you have nothing to hide, I guess you have nothing to fear.

But I really think that in our circles here, we need to have openness and accountability and transparency. We've all heard those terms, but if they really

wanted to strengthen this -- because I support it -- they would be requiring that pre-election promises, platforms, should be costed and audited. That clearly wasn't the case -- Dalton McGuinty had

230 promises. There was a 60-page document that we tried to get. We've been denied access to that report, and the Liberals clearly don't want to commit on any of the promises. But you know, if they

do the right thing here and accept just one amendment that I'm bringing in, bring in the disclosure of pre-election, I'll be supportive of it.

Mr Levac: I'm not going to spend any time talking about what previous governments did or what federal governments did; I'm going to talk about

the bill. The bill itself is what the people want. The people have been telling us, over the time that I've been elected, that they want transparency; they want accountability; they want to be able

to know that if there are going to be taxes, it's going to be spent in ways that we want to focus on.

The Auditor General -- it is now going to be the Auditor General, by the way, in this bill; they're going to change that -- is going to basically say that if

you're a funding organization and you receive money from the government through the taxpayers of this province, you're going to be audited: value-for-money audits. What is wrong with that? That is

the thing that tells me that we're on the right track. It says very clearly that those monies coming into these coffers and the way they're going to be spent are going to be looked at by a third

party, a reputable person who knows the audit of the province of Ontario, and they're going to say, "You know what? This is where you're spending the money; here's where you're wasting the money.

Here's where you're spending the money; this is where you can improve spending the money." The other thing about the legislation is, it's going to come back to the Legislature and it's going to

hold the government accountable for making sure that those audits are paid attention to.

The second component to it, in a nutshell, is saying, "You know what? We are sick and tired of party after party, government after government, saying that your

budget is over here, and then we get hold of it, it's over here. A curse on all their teams."

Look, the people of Ontario have caught on. They're making it quite clear that all they want to see is that when an election comes by, we won't be playing this

game of, "Well, you're actually over-budget or under-budget or this budget or that budget." The auditor is going to give you a transparent picture of what those finances look like in the province

of Ontario when the election comes. That's the second component to this that I know, no matter how you try to twist or spin on all sides, is what the people of Ontario want. They simply want to

know that you're spending properly the money, the taxes, you're collecting from them.

The Deputy Speaker: The member for Simcoe North has two minutes to reply.

Mr Dunlop: I'd like to thank the member from Niagara Centre, the member from Pickering-Ajax-Uxbridge, the member from Durham and the member

from Brant for their comments on my speech on Bill 18. I appreciate their efforts on the piece of legislation and their comments as well.

I would like to talk a little bit about what the member from Brant mentioned. I guess the whole purpose of making sure that our transfer agencies, which

receive, of course, most of the money we collect here in the province of Ontario, are accountable. My understanding -- this is going to be the difficult part with this piece of legislation -- is

that all of these organizations are already audited. If you go to a school board, they have an auditor who comes in and gives a financial statement at the end of the year. My understanding is that

it's very detailed and very complex.

I don't know how much more you can do with those audited statements. I'm not an auditor; I don't know. But the fact of the matter is, maybe this legislation

will allow you to overrule the audit that they already have or overrule the audit that the hospitals have. But I simply don't know how you intend to implement a piece of legislation in that

manner.

Second of all, as taxpayers, I think we want every penny that we collect in the province -- or the federal government or the municipal government -- spent as

efficiently as possible. All governments talk about accountability and transparency and all those key words, but it's always a challenge to make it happen.

So we'll listen to other comments on Bill 18 and take our judgment based on that. I thank you, Mr Speaker, for this opportunity to say a few words this

afternoon.

The Deputy Speaker: Further debate?

Mr Kormos: Speaker, if I may, I seek unanimous consent to defer the NDP leadoff on this until the critic is here.

The Deputy Speaker: It has been requested that unanimous consent be given to stand down the NDP leadoff. Do I have that? Agreed.

Mr Kormos: Thank you kindly, Speaker.

I'm going to speak to a couple of elements of the bill. One of the issues, of course, is that you can give the auditor all the powers in the world, but if the

auditor doesn't have the budget to do the work, it's academic; it's really academic. So all of the talk about enhancing the auditor's power, increasing the scope of what he's to examine, means zip,

zero, nada if the auditor doesn't have the resources, including the staff and the budget, to do the work. You know full well that that's been a serious concern of our now retired auditor Erik

Peters for a good chunk of time. You've got to put your money where your mouth is, I say to the government. You can't call upon the auditor to increase the scope of his or her work -- its work --

without enhancing the budget.

One of the backdoor means or tactics, strategies, used by a government in manipulating the auditor and the auditor's office is to control the purse strings.

The last government did it to the point where it was becoming embarrassingly obvious. And I say this to you: That's why I look forward to this bill going to committee, and one of the people I hope

we call upon, should this bill go to committee, is Erik Peters, the retired Provincial Auditor, who has some real expertise and insight. We're in the process now of hiring, because the auditor of

course is an officer of the assembly. Hopefully, the government will uphold the tradition of there being unanimity around the appointment of the new auditor. So that's a very important issue.

The other interesting element is

section 6 of the bill, which amends

section 4 of the Audit Act. It creates a clear 10-year term, with no entitlement to

reinstatement or a renewal of the term. You take a look at

section 4 of the act as it exists now, and it was basically an appointment for life, subject to the retirement age of 65. Now we're seeing

a clear 10-year term with no prospect of renewal.

That takes us back to the interesting debate we had -- not much of a debate, because only New Democrats were speaking to it -- about a motion to renew the

appointment of our privacy commissioner. That was precisely what some of the comments from the New Democratic Party were all about: The fact that there is a prospect or a possibility of renewal of

a term doesn't mean it is a necessary avenue that's going to be pursued. So I've got to tell you -- and I'm interested once again in committee -- the 10-year term is one that I find particularly

appealing.

As I indicated during debate around the privacy commissioner's appointment, it's important that the people in these roles of officers of the assembly do not

feel beholden to any government or any individual within government. It's important that they know they've got absolute freedom. Quite frankly, it's tantamount to the independence that we give our

judiciary, for instance. A fixed term says to that person, who in this instance will be the newly named Auditor General: "Your function for the next 10 years is to do this particular role or task

with no fear of recrimination. You don't have to worry about suckin