Manitoba Hansard — Sitting 32 (40th Legislature, 3rd Session)

40-3-32

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Third Session - Fortieth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Daryl Reid Speaker Vol. LXVI No. 32 - 1:30 p.m., Wednesday, March 19, 2014 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Fortieth Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALLAN, Nancy St. Vital NDP ALLUM, James, Hon. Fort Garry-Riverview NDP ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley NDP ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thompson NDP BJORNSON, Peter, Hon. Gimli NDP BLADY, Sharon, Hon. Kirkfield Park NDP BRAUN, Erna, Hon. Rossmere NDP BRIESE, Stuart Agassiz PC CALDWELL, Drew Brandon East NDP CHIEF, Kevin, Hon. Point Douglas NDP CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan NDP CROTHERS, Deanne St.

James NDP CULLEN, Cliff Spruce Woods PC DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk NDP DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood PC EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne Lac du Bonnet PC FRIESEN, Cameron Morden-Winkler PC GAUDREAU, Dave St. Norbert NDP GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Liberal GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach PC GRAYDON, Cliff Emerson PC HELWER, Reg Brandon West PC HOWARD, Jennifer, Hon. Fort Rouge NDP IRVIN-ROSS, Kerri, Hon. Fort Richmond NDP JHA, Bidhu Radisson NDP KOSTYSHYN, Ron, Hon. Swan River NDP LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. Dawson Trail NDP MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St. Johns NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Flor, Hon.

Logan NDP MARCELINO, Ted Tyndall Park NDP MARTIN, Shannon Morris PC MELNICK, Christine Riel Ind. MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East PC NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom Interlake NDP OSWALD, Theresa, Hon. Seine River NDP PALLISTER, Brian Fort Whyte PC PEDERSEN, Blaine Midland PC PETTERSEN, Clarence Flin Flon NDP PIWNIUK, Doyle Arthur-Virden PC REID, Daryl, Hon. Transcona NDP ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Kewatinook NDP RONDEAU, Jim Assiniboia NDP ROWAT, Leanne Riding Mountain PC SARAN, Mohinder The Maples NDP SCHULER, Ron St. Paul PC SELBY, Erin, Hon. Southdale NDP SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St.

Boniface NDP SMOOK, Dennis La Verendrye PC STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo PC STRUTHERS, Stan, Hon. Dauphin NDP SWAN, Andrew, Hon. Minto NDP WHITEHEAD, Frank The Pas NDP WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WIGHT, Melanie Burrows NDP WISHART, Ian Portage la Prairie PC

1035 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Wednesday, March 19, 2014 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Mr. Speaker: O Eternal and Almighty God, from Whom all power and wisdom come, we are assembled here before Thee to frame such laws as may tend to the welfare and prosperity of our province. Grant, O merciful God, we pray Thee, that we may desire only that which is in accordance with Thy will, that we may seek it with wisdom and know it with certainty and accomplish it perfe ctly for the glory and honour of Thy name and for the welfare of all our people. Amen. Good afternoon, everyone. Please be seated. Down to business.

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS Mr. Speaker: Introduction of bills? PETITIONS Mr. Speaker: Moving on to petitions. Beausejour District Hospital– Weekend and Holiday Physician Availability Mr. Wayne Ewasko (Lac du Bonnet): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. These are the reasons for this petition:

(1) The Beausejour District Hospital is a 30-bed, acute-care facility that serves the communities of Beausejour and Brokenhead.

(2) The hospital and the primary-care centre have had no doctor available on weekends and holidays for many months, jeopardizing the health and liv elihoods of those in the Interlake -Eastern Regional Health Authority region.

(3) During the 2011 election, the provincial government promised to provide every Manitoban with access to a family doctor by 2015.

(4) This promise is far from being realized, an d Manitobans are witnessing many emergency rooms limiting services or closing temporarily, with the majority of these reductions taking place in rural Manitoba.

(5) According to the Health Council of Canada, only 25 per cent of doctors in Manitoba reported that their patients had access to care on evenings and weekends. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government and the Minister of Health to ensure that the Beausejour District Hospital and primary -care cen tre have a primary-care physician available on weekends and holidays to better provide area residents with this essential service. This petition is signed by M. Dewald, L. White, E. Marek and many, many more fine Manitobans, Mr. Speaker. Mr.

Speaker: In keeping with our rule 132(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to have been received by the House. Any further petitions? Seeing none, move on to committee reports. TABLING OF REPORTS Mr. Speaker: Seeing no committee reports, I have a report to table for the House. I am pleased to table, in accordance with sections 10(1), 14(4) and 16(3) and 28(1) of The Auditor General Act, the March 2014 Auditor General's Annual Report to the Legislature. Any f urther tabling of reports? Seeing none, we'll move on to ministerial statements? Introduction of Guests Mr.

Speaker: Prior to oral questions, I 'd like to draw the attention of honourable members to the public gallery where we have wi th us this afternoon from HBNI -ITV system out of Fairholme s chool 19 grade 9 students under the direction of Ms. Evelyn Maendel, and this group is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Portage la Prairie (Mr. Wishart). On behalf of all honourable members, we welcome you here this afternoon.

1036 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 19, 2014 ORAL QUESTIONS Canadian-Manitoban Immigration Agreement Resolution Civil Service Involvement–Government Knowledge Mr. Brian Pallister (Leader of the Official Opposition): Blame placing, broken promises, false accusations, phony talking points: this is the descriptive of this government. And now a cover -up, an ongoing cover -up, a cover -up that describes very well to the people of this province the priorities of this government.

After 20 questions I'll ask a 21st, and I 'll ask the Premier this: When did he first know that political direction was provided to a non-partisan civil servant to encourage them to engage in partisan activity? On what date? Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): As the member knows, the federal government made changes to how they wanted to manage immigrant settlement services in the spring of 2012, and we resolved to take action on that in the form of a resolution in front of this Legislature.

And Cabinet ministers, senior staff, special assistants, cau cus members were involved in inviting members of the public to attend for that resolution debate. During the course of that activity, the minister did invite people to come to the Legislature through her civil servants and has taken responsibility for that and has corrected the record in terms of her role that she played in that. We learned of this in the summer of 2012 after the Ombudsman's report had commenced, and we made it clear that we expected the former minister to co-operate with the Ombudsman, which the minister did.

And we let the Ombudsman's report conclude and then we took serious account of the recommendations, which we are following up on. Mr. Pallister: With 192 communicators, you'd think they could come up with more than one answer to that question, Mr. Speaker, especially when it's as general and non-specific as that answer has been. Now, the reality is, of course, that on February 4th, 2014, the Premier and his colleagues decided to lance the boil, so to speak, and they tried to expel, and did expel, in fact, the member for Riel (Ms. Melnick) from their caucus.

And the Premier said, and I quote –at that time, he said: It is abundantly clear that she will not be taking responsibility for her own actions. Why the double standard? Why should the member for Riel be accused of not taking responsibility for her actions when, in fact, she owned up to her own actions? Will the Premier take responsibility for his own actions? Will his Cabinet take responsibility for their own actions? Will his party take responsibility for this cover-up? Will he finally answer the question? When did the cove r-up begin?

On what date did he first know that political direction was provided to a non- partisan civil servant to engage in a partisan activity? Mr. Selinger: Again, Mr. Speaker, I've answered that question on several occasions, and I've put on the recor d that we learned of that after the Ombudsman's investigation had commenced in the summer of 2012, made clear our expectation that the former minister fully co -operate with the Ombudsman, which the former member did, made her role clear in that, and subsequently apologized to the public for that and corrected the record as with respect to her role.

That's a matter of public record. Mr. Pallister: What's also a matter of public record is the Premier sat silent for 17 months while an innocent civil servan t stood accused of wrongdoing when he knew that was not the case. Manitobans expect and deserve a non -partisan civil service. And Manitoba civil servants expect and deserve that they should be free from political manipulation and political influence in t he operation and performance of their duties. And Manitobans, as well, Mr.

Speaker, deserve to know that they have a non-partisan civil service that will deliver services to them and their families free of political manipulation. We understand this and we understand the importance of it on this side of the House, but clearly the government has lost sight of these important goals. * (13:40) For 17 months, I repeat, that Premier, and, I expect, many of his colleagues, sat on information which would hav e cleared from wrongdoing an innocent civil servant, yet they did nothing.

I ask the Premier again: On what date did he first become aware that political direction was provided to a non-partisan civil servant to engage in a partisan activity?

March 19, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1037 Mr. Selinger: Again, Mr. Speaker, I have been clear on this matter. I've said that we've learned of this–we learned of this matter after the Ombudsman had commenced his investigation. I made it clear that Cabinet ministers, caucus members, senior staff members, pol itical assistants, all were involved in inviting members of the public down to the Legislature to hear this important debate on a resolution about a program which has been fundamental to the economic well-being of Manitoba, a very important program called immigration.

And again this year, we've seen statistics come out that we've gained 14,000 new people in Manitoba from all around the world. It's a very important program. We believed the resolution would have been broadly supported in the Legislature, par ticularly when members opposite were involved in the early inception of the program. We were sadly disappointed in that. The member has taken responsibility for her behaviour. And I do have to say, Mr. Speaker, the greatest partisanship in public ser vice was during the vote rigging of 1995, and the Leader of the Opposition has still not taken responsibility for that.

Canadian-Manitoban Immigration Agreement Resolution Civil Service Involvement–Government Knowledge Mr. Cameron Friesen (Morden-Winkler): What is clear is that this First Minister and this government has been anything but clear in all of this with regard to the civil service. The civil service must be able to do their job free of political interference, free of political manipulation. I have a question for the Minister of Finance.

I want to know on what date she first became aware that the NDP government had directed a civil servant to send email invitations for an NDP political rally at the Legislature on April 19th, 2012. When did she first become aware? Hon. Jennifer Howard (Minister of Finance): I think, as the First Minister was talking about, I remember the day that we discussed immigration in the House and the topic of immigration, the topic of bringing people to Manitoba, we lcoming them here, having them participate in the economy, I wouldn't think that is a partisan discussion.

I would think that that is a discussion that all members in this House would be in favour of. In fact, you know, as lately as last month when I was travelling the province talking and listening to Manitobans about the budget, I heard time and time again from employers who are finding it more difficult under the current rules under the federal government to bring people in to do the jobs and asked questions again and again about when we might restore the Provincial Nominee Program. So this is still a topic of conversation.

It's not a partisan conversation; it's a conversation that is of interest an d concern to Manitobans. Mr. Friesen: Mr. Speaker, this Finance Minister says that she remembers the day of the event, she remembers the debate. The question that I asked her is: Why can't she remember when she first became aware of what had taken place? As I said, civil servants have to be able to do their job without political interference. They have to be able to do their job without political manipulation.

I ask this minister again: On what date did she become aware that the allegations against the civil servant who sent the email invitations and who was placed under investigation as a result were false? Ms. Howard: This member opposite who represents some of those communities which he has said in this House are growing, are booming, are benefiting from those immigration programs. Talking to people that work in those communities and other places in the southern Manitoba, they told me clearly that they have concerns in the way that that program is being administered.

They have concerns now that the language requirements for people to come into Manitoba to work are so high that many of the people who came when that program was administered provincially today wouldn't be eligible. Those people have been here. They have worked here. They've learned the language. They have raised families. But under the current requirements, those people wouldn't be allowed to come. So this continues to be an item of concern to employers, to Manitobans. It continues to be something that we in the provincial government are active on.

We know the benefits of immigration not only to the economy but to the province of Manitoba.

1038 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 19, 2014 We're proud of what that Provincial Nominee Program has achieved, and I would think the members opposite who so quickly take credit for it would have stood up for it. Mr. Friesen: Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Finance wants to talk about many things, and I assure her that this afternoon in Estimates and again at Public Accounts this evening we will have ample opportunity to explore lots of themes, but this afternoon we are asking her specific questions about civil service and government interference. Mr.

Speaker, a non- partisan civil servant was implicated for wrongdoing and remained under a cloud of suspicion as a result of this government's actions for a year and a half. I want to ask this Finance Minister one more time: At what time, on what date did she first become aware that it was the NDP government that directed the civil servant to send the email invitations to the NDP political rally on A pril the 19th, 2012? When did she first know? Ms.

Howard: Well, at the time that we brought that motion forward, I was the House leader in the House and we brought forward that motion, and I brought forward that motion with every expectation that members opposite would join us in our concern about that program because, as the former minister of Immigration, I had heard from them many times and from others in the community that this Provincial Nominee Program had been one of those rare examples that had mul tipartisan support, that everybody supported.

But then, you know, when it came time to stand up for that program which has been successful in bringing people here, which employers supported, which people, I thought, from all political parties supported, they didn't stand with that program. They didn't stand with those employers who now tell us that the results they are getting are not as good, that they have deep concerns. They chose to stand– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable minister's time has expired. Canadian-Manitoban Immigration Agreement Resolution Civil Service Involvement–Government Knowledge Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): I am, Mr.

Speaker, growingly concerned about the mass amnesia that is sweeping through the NDP caucus, but I'm sure that it hasn't affected the Government House Leader (Mr. Swan). I'm sure that the current Government House Leader has brought his mind to bear on this issue because it impacts him and his entire caucus. So I'll ask him, the Government House Leader: On what date did he first become aware that the NDP government directed a civil servant to send an email invitation to an NDP political rally which was held here in the Legislature on April 19th of 2012? Hon.

Andrew Swan (Minister of Justice and Attorney G eneral): Well, Mr. Speaker, I was surprised as anybody the member for Steinbach didn't stand up for the Filipino families in his community that were so concerned, so concerned about federal changes to the very successful Manitoba immigration program. And, you know, like all other members in this side of the House, I was shocked. I was shocked that the member for Steinbach and all other members of the PC caucus refused to stand up for Manitoba and instead–we made calls. We made sure that there were communi ty members that came. What were their outreach calls?

They called federal MPs and had them sitting in the loge rather than doing what ministers and MLAs did, which was to invite members of the community to come down for a very, very important debate. I'm very disappointed the– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The minister's time has expired. Mr. Goertzen: One of the things that Filipino families are very concerned about, and it comes from their history, is they're concerned about corrupt government. And, Mr. Speaker, they expect us as legislators to act in a way that's responsible.

And I'm asking this minister, the Attorney General, the House leader, and I hope he's not suffering from an undiagnosed disease, but if he isn't, if he could turn his attention to this issue and tell the House when he first became aware that the NDP government directed a civil servant to send an email– to invitations to a political rally held here on April 19th of 2012 to civil servants. Mr. Swan : You know, Mr. Speaker, I thought t he member for Steinbach was going to stand in his place and apologize, but I guess that's not going to happen today.

March 19, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1039 My Cabinet, our caucus, our senior staff were all involved in this effort to make sure that as many Manitobans as possible were aware of w hat was happening at the Legislature, and we reached out to those communities. Prior to the debate, the MLA for Riel, then in her capacity as minister, has acknowledged that she directed departmental staff to make calls. She has acknowledged that's the case.

She has apologized to this House and has acknowledged that she misled the House, and to her credit, she stood up her first opportunity in this House and made that statement. Unfortunately, the member for Riel (Ms. Melnick) made that choice. That was not a choice that anyone on this side of the government– * (13:50) Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The minister's time has expired. Mr. Goertzen: The fact is that this Government House Leader, the Attorney General, Cabinet ministers and his caucus hung a ci vil servant out to dry for a year and a half.

And all I'm simply trying to do is ask a simple question to the minister. Surely, he's thought about this over the last year and a half. Clearly, he can give us an answer. He can choose not to. But we're simply asking for the date that he first became aware that the NDP government directed a civil servant to send an email invitation to an NDP political rally here on April 19th of 2012. Can he just simply answer that question, Mr. Speaker, or is he simply not able to give us a clear answer because of what it might implicate him in? Mr. Swan : Well, certainly, Mr.

Speaker, there is amnesia when it comes to civil servants, but it's not on this side of the House. It's on that side of the House, when the Leader of the Opposition has stood up, he's gone to the media and said his vision is to cut $550 million out of the budget. His vision is to put a chill on the civil service. His vision is to have across- the-board, indiscriminate cuts that would rip apart the civil service in Manitoba. And, of course, now none of them seem to remember that.

It was so bad during his response to the budget speech he had to turn his back on all of us and try to convince his own caucus members that that was the right thing to do. If there's amnesia, it's that individual right there that's suffering very badly. Canadian-Manitoban Immigration Agreement Resolution Civil Service Involvement–Government Knowledge Mrs. Heather Stefanson (Tux edo): Mr. Speaker, the Premier (Mr. Selinger), the Minister of Finance and now the Attorney General (Mr. Swan) have refused to answer a very simple question.

So if neither one of those folks will answer the question, I will turn to the Minister for Jobs and the Economy and ask her: When was she first made aware, Mr. Speaker, that the NDP government directed a civil servant to send email invitations for an NDP political rally at the Legislature on April 19th, 2012? Hon. Jennifer Howard (Minister of Finance): Mr. Speaker, you know, when I was the Minister of Immigration, something I came quickly to appreciate was how much that program, the Provincial Nominee Program, was changing the face of Manitoba, not only the people that lived here but the economy of Manitoba.

When you look at the growth that has been experienced in the Manitoba economy, the fact that there's been a growing population and immigration has had a lot to do with that, the fact that that has happened has really enabled the economy to grow, new businesses to be found and people to get those jobs.

And the reality is, as I went around the province in the last few months and talked and listened to Manitobans, I heard time and time again from employers who asked if we could go back to the way things were under the Provincial Nominee Program, because they were experiencing barriers to getting the employees they needed to grow their economy. That's why we have stood on the side of the Provincial Nominee Program– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The minister's time has expired. Mrs. Stefanson: Well, Mr. Speaker, we know that the Minister of Finance has already refused to answer the questions.

That's why we're asking the Minister for Jobs and the Economy if she will answer these very simple questions. Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask her once again: When was she first made aware that the NDP government directed a civil servant to send email

1040 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 19, 2014 invitations to an NDP rally here at the Manitoba Legislature on April 19th, 2012? When was s he made aware? Ms. Howard: Mr. Speaker, I'll be pleased to talk about immigration all day long. It's a very important contributor to our economy in Manitoba. And one of the great things that you get to do in both this job and the job as minister of Immig ration is talk to people who have come to Manitoba from all over the world and talk to them about the reasons why they come here.

And when you talk to them about that, what you hear from their stories, many of them come here mostly for a better life for th eir kids because they're leaving countries where they don't believe that their kids are safe or that their kids won't get a fair chance. And many of those families who have come here would not be allowed today, would not be allowed to come under the curr ent rules because their language isn't strong enough, because there have been tremendous changes in the rules that bring families to Manitoba.

Under the Provincial Nominee Program, which the members opposite have every right to be proud of, under that program we saw tremendous growth in our communities and growth in our economy. And I thought that day, when we brought that motion forward, we could stand together in support of that program. I was disappointed that the members opposite didn't stand by the Provincial Nominee Program then. I'm disappointed that they continue to not stand by that program now. Mrs. Stefanson: Well, Mr. Speaker, it's clear to me that this government is in full damage-control mode.

It is unfortunate that when I asked the Minist er for Jobs and Economy a very direct question that is deserving of a very direct answer, Mr. Speaker, that that should be offered in this House, because Manitobans want to know: When was she first made aware that the NDP government directed a senior civil servant to send email invitations to an NDP rally on April 19th, 2012? I want to know when the Minister for Jobs and the Economy was first made aware of this. Ms. Howard: You know, I think this is more questions on immigration I ever got when I was Minister of Immigration.

One of the things that I heard clearly as I listened to employers around the province about some of their concerns with how the immigration system was currently working was really the language requirements, which have become much stiffer under the new rules. And one these employers, you know, said to me quite, you know, clearly that when my family–when his family came to Manitoba, if the current requirements were in place, they wouldn't have been able to come here.

And we have always prided ourselves in Manitoba on that immigration program because it addresses the very unique needs and challenges of this province. That's why I think it was a good thing that the party opposite started and it was a good thing that we continued to support. That's why I believed in all honesty that we would get all -party support for the notion that we should maintain and keep that program– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The minister's time has expired. Canadian-Manitoban Immigration Agreement Resolution Civil Service Involvement–Government Knowledge Mrs.

Bonnie Mitchelson (River East): I'm wondering if there's anyone on the government side of the House that will set aside the selective amnesia that they seem to have around this issue and answer a very direct question. Mr. Speaker, the Premier (Mr. Selinger) has selective amnesia. The Minister of Finance has selective amnesia. The Minister of Justice (Mr. Swan) has selective amnesia. And the Minister of Jobs and the Economy (Ms. Oswald) isn't allowed to stand up and let us know whether she's got selective amnesia. I'm wondering, Mr.

Speaker, whether the Minister of Housing will stand up and indicate: On what date did he first become aware that the NDP government directed a civil servant to send email invitations to an NDP political rally at the Legislature on April the 19th, 2012? Hon. Jennifer Howard (Minister of Finance): I know that must have been a hard day for the member opposite who's asking this question to see the program that she helped start, to see that program be abandoned by her party. I'm sure that was a very difficult day for her that day to see that program t hat

March 19, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1041 I know that she is proud of and she should be proud of–to see her own party abandon that made-in-Manitoba program. And I'm sorry for that. I'm sorry that they made the decision–they made a decision, frankly, to stand with partisan politics on that day and not to stand with what's best for the Manitoba economy. And it's being borne out now. When you talk to, when you listen to employers in this province who are having difficulty bringing the workers they need here under immigration, it– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The minister's time has expired. Mrs.

Mitchelson: A simple question. Possibly we could get a direct answer from someone over there, Mr. Speaker. The Minister of Housing indicate on what date he first became aware that the allegations against the civil servant who sent the email invitations and who was placed under investigation as a result for false? When did he–what date did he realize that those were false allegations? Ms. Howard: I'm sure that she well remembers the day of that motion because I'm sure she had a crisis of conscience. Do I stand with the program that I know is working?

Do I stand with a program that I know is bringing people to Manitoba, that's helping employers fill jobs, that's helping businesses grow, that's bringing families together, families that I'm sure all of us represent in our constituencies? Do I stand with that program, or do I take the order from on high to stand for partisan politics and stand against a program that was growing the economy in Manitoba? * (14:00) I'm sure that was a difficult choice for her that day. I think she made the wrong choice that day to not stand up for the Provincial Nominee Program in Manitoba. We continue to stand up for– Mr.

Speaker: Order, please. The minister's time has expired. Mrs. Mitchelson: But, again, Mr. Speaker, I wish someone on that side of the House would have a crisis of conscience and stand up and answer a very simple, direct question. Mr. Speaker, a senior civil servant was implicated and left to endure suspicion of wrongdoing for a year and a half because of this government. I ask the Minister of Housing again: On what date did he first become aware that it was the NDP government that directed the civil servant to send the email invitations o ut to an NDP political rally on April the 19th of 2012? Ms.

Howard: Well, Mr. Speaker, my conscience is clear, because when it came time to make a decision whether I was going to stand with immigrant families, whether I was going to stand with employers w ho depended on those people to come and fill the jobs and grow the economy, whether I was going to stand for the rightful role of provinces in immigration policy, I stood on the right side of that question. And the sad truth is, Mr. Speaker, that when it came time for them to decide whose side they were on, they decided they were on the side of their political masters, not the people of Manitoba.

Ukrainian Crisis Sanctions against Russia Mr. Ron Schuler (St. Paul): Mr. Speaker, last week the Manitoba Leg islature unanimously condemned all violence and antidemocratic ads perpetrated against Ukraine. Yet even today the people of Ukraine continue to suffer at the hands of violent aggressors. Will the minister responsible for the Manitoba Liquor Control Comm ission commit today to removing all Russian -produced products from the shelves of MLCC stores? Will he also suspend the sale of Russian -produced products until the international crisis in Ukraine is resolved? Hon.

Dave Chomiak (Acting Minister charged with the administration of The Liquor Control Act): Mr. Speaker, as I understand it, the –we have looked at the issue in terms of products, et cetera. We're also working with the federal government to try to determine how and when sanctions and other matters like that should apply. So it's a valid suggestion, but it's already been discussed and looked at. But there is a overall strategy that–approach that ought to be adopted. Clearly, we are strongly advocating for economic sanctions against Russia,

1042 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 19, 2014 and we encourage that, Mr. Speaker, and we'll do our part. We will do our part where we can. STARS Helicopter Service Contract Tendering Process Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, in 2011 the government gave a $100- million untendered 10-year contract to an Alberta company, the STARS helicopter service. The normal limit for contracts above which they should be tendered is $25,000 for goods and $100,000 for services. The contract is for –to STARS was for 1,000 times more than the normal maximum size for untendered contracts for services.

I ask the Premier: What was he thinking when he and his government gave a $100- million untendered contract to Alberta's STARS helicopter service? Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): What we were thinking was is that Ma nitobans deserve to have continuity of service. The STARS helicopter program had served us well in the flood of 2009. It had served us well in the flood of 2011.

And an expectation had been generated in the public that that service would be continuously available to Manitobans, particularly during challenging times of events like floods or other disasters or situations where people could not be reached by land. So the project was continued. The STARS project was continued, and it has provided continuity of service. And when errors have been identified or problems have been identified by medical professionals, we have listened to them. We've let the medical professionals deal with that.

And when medical professionals have said it's ready for that service to be put back into action, that is when it has occurred. Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Speaker, the Auditor General has found that the government's action in giving an untendered contract to STARS did not comply with provincial tendering principles, practices and legislation. I ask the Premier: Why did he disregard normal business practices and provincial laws and hand a lucrative untendered contract to a company in another province rather than opening up this contra ct to competition from excellent Manitoba businesses? Mr.

Selinger: It was determined that continuity of service was fundamentally important to serve the needs of Manitobans. To put it out to tender would've taken 18 to 24 months to reboot a service, potentially under another provider. We wanted continuity of service. That continuity of service had served us very well in '9, had served us very well in '11, and there was a desire to continue to provide that service based on the successful performance of ST ARS in '9 and in '11.

And that was the rationale behind it, to make sure Manitobans had emergency service when they needed it, particularly in difficult circumstances or in situations where land service was not able to reach people. That was the priorit y was to protect the health and well -being of Manitobans, Mr. Speaker, rather than have a gap in service which would've left Manitobans vulnerable during very critical times in their health-care cycle. Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Speaker, the Auditor General has revealed that the full cost is likely to be $159 million, not just $100 million.

The Auditor General has also revealed that the costs per mission in Manitoba were likely to be 231 per cent or 618 per cent higher than in other provinces. I ask the Premier: Do es he not, as others do, consider untendered contracts as unfair business practices? I ask the Premier: How does giving away enormous untendered contracts to non- Manitoba businesses benefit Manitobans? Mr. Selinger: Mr.

Speaker, I've put on the record the rationale for continuing service –to provide continuous service to Manitobans to ensure that at a critical time in their lives, when their lives are at risk or their health is at risk, the service would be available. We want as few incidents like that as possible, and Manitoba has worked very hard to reduce the number of emergency situations when people would need that service. We've done that in a variety of ways.

We've made very significant investments in nurses, very significant investments in doc tors, very significant investments in new hospitals and personal-care homes and very significant investments in healthy living in the province of Manitoba and addressing chronic disease issues. So the less incidents we have, the less we will need the service.

March 19, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1043 But where it was need –where the service is needed, it is available, and that is the point, is to ensure the service is available on a continuous basis when Manitobans need it, from a provider that had a good record of providing that service not only in Manitoba in '09 and in '11 but a good record of providing that service both in Saskatchewan and Alberta as well. Highway 10 Upgrade Announcement Mr. Clarence Pettersen (Flin Flon): Mr.

Speaker, I am proud to be part of the government that will invest in core infrastructure such as in important economic corridors. I know the members of the opposition don't prioritize northern Manitoba. They cut northern highways funding when the Leader of the Opposition was a senior Cabinet minister in Gary Filmon's government in the 1990s. Highway 10 is key not only to Manitoba, to Canada, and you could even say North America. At the heartbeat, at the start, is Flin Flon, of course, and it goes all the way from Flin Flon to Mexico.

Can the Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation–and like the opposition like to call him, Captain Asphalt –inform the House of our next investment into that great highway that the PCs have voted against? Thank you. Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation): Well, Mr. Speaker, I'd like to thank the member for Flin Flon for the question. I point out it's a day after the provincial budget and not a single question about the budget, not a single question about infrastructure.

I wonder if it's got something to do with the fact that yesterday the Conservative Party voted against more than a billion dollars' worth of investment in core infrastructure. And, Mr. Speaker, if you want to see the difference, this government is investing, yes, in Highway 10. Our Premier (Mr. Selinger) made announcements in Brandon, $80 million worth of announcements; in Swan River, $80 million worth of announcements in the Parkland. And you're going to see improvements o n Highway 10 from the Peace Gardens all the way to Flin Flon.

That's because this government is investing in infrastructure for all Manitobans, southern Manitoba, the Parkland, northern Manitoba. We're a government for all Manitobans. * (14:10) GO Office Closures Government Timeline Mr. Shannon Martin (Morris): After promising not to and then cutting rural Hydro offices, it appears the NDP are at it again. The offices of the Manitoba Agricultural Services Corporation and Manitoba Agriculture, Food and Rural Development currently occupy offices in Morris.

I've been told that these staff will be deployed to other offices under the amalgamation of the Starbuck, Stonewall and Morris locations. Staff are aware the consolidation is to happen in the next few months, but of no other details are aware. When does this minister plan on closing these offices located in the heart of the Red River Valley? Hon.

Ron Kostyshyn (Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Development): I want to ensure the members oppos ite about the restructuring of the GO offices and I want to ensure the member opposite, as we move into agriculture, what it used to be 25 years ago, what it is today, is a true transition of efficiency. But I want to ensure the member opposite we will still provide the professional services that we have for a number of years. We don't need to have people coming through the offices, because, obviously, the numbers going through the offices have dropped.

Communication has really begun through the social networking system, and we will continue to move with the producers and have ongoing discussions to provide a professional service as we have previously, and we will continue to provide those services regardless where we are. Mr. Martin: I appreciate the Minister of Agriculture acknowledging that they're planning to cut and close these offices, as they've done with so many offices across this province. My question to the minister is: When will these offices be closed? The people of Morris are wondering when is this office to be closed. Mr.

Kostyshyn : I want to ensure the members of opposite that we are doing our due diligence by informing the people that have used the offices. We want to continue to have a smooth transition when we're moving out of these local offices. And we also want to inform the pe ople that we will have the appropriate pieces in place–people in place but

1044 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 19, 2014 also provide appropriate communication with them through the website. And I do roughly want to say –but, generally, you know, it's quite ironic that the members opposite–let's get rid of a bunch of jobs; you want to get cut, cut, cut, but yet they come back and say they want us to spend money. What we're doing is being more professional in our delivery, and we will continue to do that to provide the cost efficiency but als o the professionalism of agriculture in the province of Manitoba. Family Doctors Rural Manitoba Mr. Stuart Briese (Agassiz): Mr.

Speaker, Neepawa is a growing community with about 20 per cent increase in population over the last four years. In the same four years, we have seen a reduction of family doctors, leaving many people without a family doctor. Mr. Speaker, when can those families expect the Minister of Health to keep her promise and provide them with family doctor service? Hon. Erin Selby (Minister of Health): We know on this side of the House that Manitoba families deserve access to high-quality health care close to home.

We have a proven track record of hiring more nurses and doctors, both in Winnipeg but also in rural Manitoba, and we've got more doctors practising than ever before. We've got 562 more doctors practising in Manitoba than in 1999. Over 120 of those doctors are working in rural Manitoba. We've also, of course, filled over a thousand nurse vacancies in rural Manitoba as well. We know that Manitobans want more doctors, and we're committed to hiring 200 more. We committed to that in the last election, and we're well on our way to doing that.

We're also hiring more physicians' assistants, which allow doctors to free up their time to work with those more complicated cases. But, of course, Mr. Speaker– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The minister's time has expired. Mr. Briese: Well, you know, Mr. Speaker, almost every community in rural Manitoba is short of family doctors right now, and she does that spin. I'm one of the people that's been left without a family doctor for the first time in my life. I've been told to go to Minnedosa and also, if that doesn't work, go to Brandon.

Minnedosa's also short of doctors and taking no new patie nts, and people tell me that it's almost impossible to find doctors in Brandon willing to take new patients. The minister makes many promises but falls short on implementation. When can I and dozens of others in the Neepawa area expect her to keep her promises? Ms. Selby : I can tell you that Manitoba does have twice as many doctors practising in rural areas than the national average. But do we need to do more? Absolutely. We have the highest percentage of family doctors working in rural Manitoba. We need to do more and we know that.

That's why we're training more doctors. We're not going to cut medical seats like they did when they were in office, Mr. Speaker. We're growing the number of doctors we're training. We're recruiting more. We're getting more doctors to stay. It's a big contrast to what they did when they were in office, and it's why I can tell you our constant recruiting efforts are paying off. We've got a new physician coming into Minnedosa starting– actually, starting this week, a nurse practitioner that's coming into 'minnedoosa' as well. Mr.

Speaker, we will continue to work with rural RHAs and keep recruiting and keep training. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The minister's time has expired. Mr. Briese: Mr. Speaker, I had a family doctor through the years that Campbell was premier, through Roblin, Schreyer, Lyon, Pawley, Filmon and Doer. Unfortunately, along came the current Premier (Mr. Selinger), and what happened? Nineteen closed ERs and many more on partial service, hundreds of families without family doctors. When will this NDP government interrupt their list of broken promises? The shortage of family doctors has got worse, not better.

I don't know where these doctors are she's talking about. Mr. Speaker, why has this NDP Premier broken yet another promise and failed to provide critical medical services? Ms. Selby : Mr. Speaker, I wonder, when former Premier Filmon cut $37 million from rural hospitals,

March 19, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1045 how anyone would have found a family doctor or an open hospital. And, certainly, when he fired a thousand nurses, it would have been pretty hard to find a nurse in a hospital. And when he cut the medical seats, would've been hard to train more doctors. Mr. Speaker, we're training more doctors, we're hiring more doctors and we will keep recruiting more doctors. Mr. Speaker: The time for oral questions has expired. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Mr. Speaker: We'll now move on with members' statements. Jagdish Kaur Mr. Mohinder Saran (The Maples): Mr.

Speaker, this winter I had the opportunity to meet with an incredibly courageous woman who survived one of the worst tragedies in Sikh history. Ms. Jagdish Kaur lived through the terrible 1984 anti-Sikh riot in India. After a period of intense political instability, thousands of Sikh men, women and children were targeted for their faith and killed in the streets of India over four days. This December, Ms. Jagdish Kaur came from New Delhi to visit us in Winnipeg and many other cities, hosted by commun ity organizations and families across Canada.

I had the pleasure of inviting her to my office in The Maples to hear her story. Now, I'd like to share her story with you. Unfortunately, I must say with deepest sorrow Ms. Kaur lost many of her family member s during the atrocities that took place. It saddens me even more to say she was not the only one. In fact, her entire community in New Delhi was massacred. Mobs swarmed into Sikh neighbourhoods and killed thousands of Sikh men, women and children. Ms. Kaur has spoken about how some leaders in the government at that time were identifying and directing the mobs to Sikh homes.

In some cases, the police laughed at the victims instead of protecting them. Ms. Kaur has testified as a witness to these crimes many times, despite intimidation and political pressure to stay silent. Because of this mass violence, a portion of New Delhi is now known as the Widow Colony. This area is home to hundreds of widows and orphans who survived the attacks. I know many families in The Maples and in Manitoba will join me in extending our condolences to the surviving families.

Remembering tragedies such as these remind us of how important it is to have mature democracies which do not target minorities and their religions for political motives. My deepest thanks to Ms. Jagdish Kaur for taking the time to share her experiences with us here in Canada. It was truly an honour. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Elizabeth Wood Mr. Cliff Graydon (Emerson): Mr. Speaker, last week Manitoba lost a def ender of patients' rights, a defender of Lyme disease awareness and a strong defender of people everywhere. Elizabeth Wood, one of my constituents from Emerson, passed away last Thursday at the age of 65.

In July 1985, Elizabeth's life changed forever. She received a tick bite north of Emerson. She remembers having great difficulty removing the insect and when she was referred to a doctor, she was told it was just poison ivy. She later developed symptoms like aches and pains, fatigue and constant flu-like symptoms that never went away. * (14:20) More than two decades ago, Elizabeth founded a Lyme disease support group, the first of its kind in Manitoba. This was long before Lyme was reportable in this province and long before the government accepted that Lyme could be a long-term illness.

Elizabeth had many meetings, lobbying politicians, professors, scientists and doctors about the effects of long-term Lyme disease. Just one week before her death, Elizabeth travelled to Ottawa to lobby the federal poli ticians on the benefit of a national strategy for Lyme disease. For several years, Elizabeth has been in contact with me regarding the provincial government's failure on Lyme disease file. Many doctors and many members of the NDP government have refused to recognize that long-term Lyme disease is a serious illness, and testing remains inadequate in Manitoba.

People like Elizabeth, Marie Hughes and others are still struggling with a government that refuses to recognize their plight. On a personal note, I w ant to thank Elizabeth for all the work that she has done to help political leaders recognize the long-term effects of Lyme disease and how much of a problem it remains in the province. Her emails always contained a wealth of information

1046 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 19, 2014 for which I'm very grateful to have received and to have acted upon. Mr. Speaker, I would ask that all members of this House join me in celebrating the life of Elizabeth Wood, and I look forward to the day that all members of this House recognize the serious concerns of long- term Lyme disease awareness, prevention and treatment. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Northern Manitoba Trappers' Festival Mr. Frank Whitehead (The Pas): Every February, during some of the coldest days of the winter, northerners come together in The Pas to take

part in the Trappers' Festival, and this festival celebrates northern arts, cultures and skills needed to survive in the North. From woodcutting, s nowshoe racing and the world championship dog races, to tea boiling, bannock baking, jigging, Northern Manitoba Trappers' Festival celebrates the unique life of the North. The festival's longevity comes from the dedication of the hundreds of volunteers and organizers that come together to put on this fantastic show of northern pride.

The coveted prizes of king and queen trapper are awarded to two competitors with the highest number of points after a week of competition. Congratulations this year to king trapper, Chris Perchaluk, and queen trapper, Diane Buck. Every year, the organizing committee does a remarkable job in planning and executing the festival plans. For the past two years, Jen Cook, the chair of Trappers' Festival and general manager of the Opasquia Times–and in spite of the abnormally cold weather, she managed to pull businesses, organizations and volunteers together for a fantastic festival.

The members of our community that organized Trappers' Festival are dedicated to keeping the festival alive. This year there was a youth component to the festival's organizing committee to help bridge the younger generations of northerners. The Trappers' Festival also relies on hundreds of volunteers each year. As volunteer co -ordinator, Terry McKell ep brought together over 300 people, making the festival a huge success. Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank every volunteer and organizer for the remarkable job they did.

Everyone maintained such a high level of enthusiasm during the entire week, and the festival could not have happened without them. Thank you. Manitoba Soccer Association Awards Banquet Mr. Ron Schuler ( St. Paul): Mr. Speaker, I rise in the House today to recognize the Manitoba Soccer Association and the great work they have done to promote and facilitate soccer in this province. I had the opportunity to attend the MSA annual awards banquet on March 15th. The banquet serves as an opportunity for the soccer community to honour the dedication, skills and achievements of players, coaches, referees and volunteers.

I was particularly touched to see the inclusion of the Ashley Schlag memorial soccer scholarship in the program for the banquet. I know we all remember that tragic day all too well, and to see her spirit live on is really quite hea rtwarming. The Manitoba Soccer Association does more than just promote a wonderful sport and pastime, it promotes values both on and off the soccer pitch–values such as teamwork, effort, 'preserverance,' commitment and courage.

Sports like soccer and orga nizations like the Manitoba Soccer Association play a pivotal role not only in keeping Manitobans active, but in educating our youth and fostering positive outputs for their energy. On behalf of the Progressive Conservative caucus, I would like to congrat ulate all the individuals who won awards this year at the banquet. There were many award recipients, and I will ask leave to table a document outlining them. Moreover, I would like to thank the Manitoba Soccer Association for the excellent role they play in our province, and wish them continued success in the future. Mr.

Speaker, I ask to table the list of award recipients of the Manitoba Soccer Association awards banquet. Mr. Speaker: Is there leave of the House to table the list of names the honourable member for St. Paul referenced? [Agreed] Spencer Lambert Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, I rise today to speak about a remarkable individual, Spencer Lambert, who's a 13 -year-old Manitoban with spina bifida who was selected by Shriners

March 19, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1047 Hospital for Children and the Air Canada Foundation to attend the 2014 Paralympic Games in Sochi, Russia, as an ambassador for para -sports. He's only able to walk short distances with the aid of crutches; otherwise he uses a wheelchair. He's a dynamic individual, displaying an incredible courage and passion for life. Over the years he's had many visits to the Shriners Hospital in Montreal and recently underwent a nine -hour surgery.

Spencer has tremendous energy and he participates in a variety of sports, including wheelchair tennis, wheelchair basketball and wheelchair rugby, and he's played on the intermediate Manitoba Battling Bisons sledge hockey team since 2008. He hopes one day to represent Canada on the national sledge hockey team. While in Sochi, Spence r visited various sports teams at the Paralympic Games, including Canada's national sledge hockey team.

He's a fine example of a courageous Manitoban and deserving recipient of the Shriners children's hospital and the Air Canada Foundation award for ambassador to the 2014 Paralympic Games in Sochi, and I'm honoured to speak about him in the Legislature today. The Shriners Hospital makes it possible for children like Spencer to receive the treatment required to improve their quality of life. Their commitment to medical research and treatment for spinal injuries, burn wounds, cleft palate and cochlear ear implants, to name just a few, led them to receive their one-millionth patient in October 2012.

In a recent meeting with Ross Holt from the Khartum Shriners of Winnipeg, he expressed the commitment of Shriners in assisting Manitoba children in need to receive the expert medical care in Montreal when it's not available here in Manitoba. Thank you very much to the Khartum Shriners, who are here today in the gallery. Thank you. * * * Mr. Speaker: Just so I'm absolutely clear, in referencing back to the member statement for the honourable member for St. Paul , was it his intent to have the names of the members that he referenced included in the Hansard proceedings of today's sitting? Mr. Schuler: Yes, Mr.

Speaker. Mr.

Speaker: Okay, then is there leave to include the names the member referenced in today's Hansard proceedings? [Agreed] List of Award Recipients President's Award: Dick Derrett; MSA Special Achievement Award: Ali Musse; Harry Harwood Award of Merit –Outstanding Youth Male Player: Alic Rasmussen; Lorrie Thompson Award of Merit – Outstanding Youth Fem ale Player: Amanda Wong; Frank Capasso Award of Merit –Outstanding Senior Male Player: Tyson Farago; Christin O'Connor Award of Merit –Outstanding Senior Female Player: Caley Miskimmin; Mario Perrino Award of Merit – Outstanding Referee: Kevin McEleney; Frank Major Award of Merit –Outstanding Official: Lisa Sansregret; Dave Zacharias Award of Merit – Outstanding Coach: Tony Nocita; Vic Batzel Award of Merit– Outstanding Youth Volunteer: Riccardo De Thomasis; Ralph Cantafio Award of Merit–Outstanding Senior Volunteer: Keith Driedger; Dr.

Fred Stambrook Award of Merit – Outstanding Volunteer: Charlie Ironside. * * * Mr. Speaker: Now we'll move on with grievances. ORDERS OF THE DAY GOVERNMENT BUSINESS Mr. Speaker: Seeing no grievances, we'll move on to orders of the day, government business. Hon. Andrew Swan (Government House Leader): Mr. Speaker, I'll move this afternoon to consider Committee of Supply. Mr. Speaker: We'll now resolve into the Committee of Supply. Mr. Deputy Speaker, will you please take the Chair. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY (Concurrent Sections) INFRASTRUCTURE AND TRANSPORTATION * (14:30) Mr.

Chairperson (Mohinder Saran): Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. The

section of the Committee of Supply will now consider the Estimates of the Department of Infrastructure and Transportation. Does the honourable minister have an opening statement? Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation): Yes, I do, Mr. Chairperson.

1048 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 19, 2014 And, first of all, I want to indicate I'm very pleased to be able to present our Estimates for the upcoming year. It's a historic set of Estimates for our department. This year, our department will be responsible for a significant component of the more than billion dollars that's being invested in core infrastructure.

And, in fact, if you look at it – and it's been put in our plan, The Five -Year Plan to Build a Stronger Manitoba : Manitoba's core infrastructure priorities–this department, through its involvement with roads, highways and bridges and flood protection will be a significant part of our investments over the next five years that will total $5.5 billion. I want to stre ss that this is absolutely critical for a number of reasons. One is we've had a significant increase in investment in infrastructure over the last number of years.

I want to indicate that, historically, if one looks back decade over decade, and certainly over the last number of years, we've seen a dramatic increase in the investment. That, actually, is not accidental. One of the first things we did early in our mandate is we brought in Manitoba 2020 transport vision, actually, under the chairpersonship of our Speaker in his role as the MLA for Transcona, and what that recommended was the need for a long-term plan, which we subsequently put in place, and we're now taking it to the next level.

Specifically, in the next five years, more than $3.7 billion is bei ng put aside for Manitoba roads, highways and bridges, and, again, that's a historic level. I want to stress again the importance this will have in terms of our economy. It certainly has a beneficial impact; Conference Board has identified that. And I do want to stress, in this budget you'll see an investment of more than $460 million in terms of highway capital funding. That, by the numbers–by–is about a thousand kilometres of provincial highway work. It's addition of 50 new projects, and it's going to make a very significant difference.

I'll–I can get into, briefly, some of the priorities. We're continuing to nail down the Highway 59 and the PTH 101 interchange. More than $300 million on the Trans -Canada Highway, 213 of which is Winnipeg west. I want to indicate $110 million from Winnipeg east to the Ontario border –boundary. And we're also, by the way, in discussions with Ontario about the potential to four -lane the remaining portion. Just note that we did four -lane all the way to Saskatchewan.

But we have some other very good- news announcements recently: the $80 million that was announced in Brandon; flood proofing of Highway 75 and other measures that bring it up to interstate standards, that's more than $200- million worth of investment; th e Headingley bypass, which will extend the CentrePort Canada Way; the major investments for highways 6, 373, 374–and with the member for Flin Flon (Mr.

Pettersen) here, I can't leave out Highway 10–again, major north- south connections, all an important par t of what we're looking at; and I'd stress, too, that we're working on the major upgrade to the southwest Perimeter. This is, to my mind, building on our success. And one of our greatest successes–and I want to give a lot of credit to our staff, the cons ulting engineers and the construction industry –CentrePort Canada Way was –it went from conception to opening, an opening with the Prime Minister and the Premier (Mr. Selinger), in basically less than five years.

And you'll see that throughout the province, whether it's that or the Coulter bridge, whether it be any of the flood-related projects we dealt with in 2011. This is a department that has significantly –it's met the challenges, and I can't say enough about the dedicated staff in our department and what they've been able to accomplish. I want to mention the Red River Floodway opened yesterday, $38 million under budget. We're able to reallocate that $38 million to other flood protection priorities, including in the city of Brandon. And, again, a v ery significant accomplishment.

Winnipeg and people in a couple of the surrounding municipalities are now protected to one-in-700-year flood protection. A lot of attention on Calgary this past year; just by way of comparison, Calgary has one -in-25-year flood protection. I consider this to be one of our greatest accomplishments. We've gone from one -in-90-year flood protection to one -in-700-year flood protection, a very significant situation. * (14:40) You know, on the Emergency Measures si de, I do want to indicate that we are going to be bringing out our next flood outlook over the next period of time, probably next week or so.

I can indicate we've got new flood forecasting software. We've got new automated weather stations coming in, 22 ne w hydrometric stations. We've got various other investments that we've put in place that reflect our commitment over the last number of years to

March 19, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1049 significantly enhance our flood forecasting. Our dedicated team of 12 with Dr. Unduche is now hard at work looking at the possible scenarios in terms of floods this spring. And I do want to indicate that we have made very significant progress on virtually all of the recommendations in the two flood reports: the one that dealt with overall flood issues; the other that dealt with the regulation of Lake Manitoba and Lake St. Martin, of course, not the least is the degree to which we're moving ahead on the Lake St. Martin, Lake Manitoba outlets.

I want to stress that the degree to which EMO has been very active over t he last period of time, obviously, a lot of challenges during the flood, a lot of challenges in the follow -up to the flood. But I do want to point the degree to which EMO has made a significant impact and has been working very strenuously again this spring to work with municipalities, with First Nations, Northern Affairs communities across the province to prepare for any eventuality in terms of spring flooding.

I do want to stress that we continue to emphasize the fact that First Nations communities are th e hardest hit when it comes to flood impacts. We are working on the Lake St. Martin situation. I would note that we put aside a hundred million dollars in the last fiscal year. This is very much a part of the efforts to lead to permanent flood protected residences for people in all the four impacted communities. And we're continuing to work on flood mitigation projects and permanent dike projects throughout the province. We've got a significant investment in community flood protection program.

In fact, we're in $30 million to community flood protection projects throughout the province and, again, this is all part of our commitment. I won't– I can get into details too: the individual flood protection initiative; the financial assistance to cottage owners; there were a number of components in the–in 2011 that we're continuing to put forward. I did mention already the very significant work taking place in Brandon. I want to highlight very quickly the grain transportation scenario. As people will know, it's been a major problem for grain producers.

There's a lot of grain sitting out in fields, sitting in temporary storage and other storage. We have a committee of Cabinet I'm pleased to co -chair with our Minister of Agriculture and also with our minister responsible for local government and our Minister of Jobs and the Economy (Ms. Oswald). We have made some progress at very good meetings with Hunter Harrison from CP. There were clear commitments to move grain through Thunder Bay, which is where more than 60 per cent of the grain in Manitoba goes traditionally.

We also had a very good meeting with OmniTRAX; we see them as a huge part of the solution in the future. I do want to stress, in terms of Churchill, that we're moving ahead in terms of the next level w ith the Port of Churchill. We're obviously in an interim period with the end of the Wheat Board single desk. The federal government did put in place a five -year subsidy for shipment to the port.

Without getting into the Wheat Board issue–which I'd be more than glad to if members want to get into it and some of the impacts it's had –I can tell you that the one thing that is clear is we have a new task force report out authored both by the federal and provincial governments. There's some real opportunities and some real necessities to invest in Churchill, and we're continuing to work with OmniTRAX. We have legislation that we hope to pass this session or, should I say, will pass this session that will set up the Churchill Arctic Port Canada Inc.

I want to stress again, too, we've been working on flexible vehicle weights and dimensions. We– Mr. Chairperson: Order. The honourable minister's time has expired. We thank the minister for those comments. Does the official opposition critic have any opening comments? Mr. Reg Helwer (Brandon West): Very few, Mr. Chair. I am pleased to be here and serving as a critic, a new role for me, so lots of learning. And I trust the minister and his staff will be patient.

I know they do like to teach people what –more about their department, so there'll be lots of learning, I'm sure, over the next few days on my behalf and, I'm sure, from all people. Very interesting numbers that we hear coming out from the department, and I think we'll have to take a wait -and-see stance gi ven the drop in infrastructure spending by this department over the last four years, 27 per cent underspending on core infrastructure, has been gone away to other departments and not spent here.

So some large announcements, and we have several questions about many of the announcements that have been made and what's going to actually

1050 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 19, 2014 happen this year. So we'll stop there and then move along into questions. Mr. Chairperson: We thank the critic from the official opposition for those remarks. Under Manitoba practice, debate on the minister's salary is the last item considered for a department in the Committee of Supply. Accordingly, we shall now defer consideration of line item 15.1.(

a) contained in resolution 15.1. At this time, we invite the minister' s staff to join us at the table, and we ask that the minister introduce the staff in attendance. Mr. Ashton: Yes, I want to introduce staff. I want to indicate first of all the deputy minister is not here at this point –will be here at a later time during Estimates proceedings, Doug McNeil.

And also attending, as well, are: Lance Vigfusson, assistant deputy minister, Engineering and Operations; Doug McMahon, assistant deputy minister, at Water Management and Structures; Chris Hauch, assistant deputy mini ster, Accommodation Services; Ian Hasanally , assistant deputy minister, Administrative Services; Lee Spencer, the acting executive director of Manitoba EMO; and Jennifer Hibbert, the director of Financial Services. Mr. Chairperson: I thank the minister. D oes the committee wish to proceed through the Estimates of this department chronologically or have a global discussion? Mr. Helwer: Mr.

Chair, I'd suggest globally. Mr. Chairperson: Okay. Mr. Ashton : I would agree to that, too, and I was going to reque st one thing that we have done in the past. We are into spring flood preparation and we do have EMO here. If there was some way we could arrange to have time when EMO actually is specifically required to be here so that Lee can be working in the spring flood preparation, would be appreciated. He is here today, so certainly we can entertain any questions, but we'd certainly agree to global consideration and would ask for that for consideration from the critic. Mr.

Helwer: I do have many questions for EMO, maybe not just today. Do we –does the minister wish us to set a particular day for EMO, perhaps Friday morning? Mr. Ashton: That would work for Lee and that'd be greatly appreciated. Mr. Chairperson: Okay. It's agreed this will be 'dealed' in a global manner. The floor is now open for questions, and the EMO will be considered on Friday morning. Mr. Helwer: Well, we'll start off by asking for some details from the minister and, first of all, a list of all Cabinet committees on which the minister serves. Mr.

Ashton : I am on Planning and Priorities and, in addition, there's the newly created grain transportation committee of Cabinet. I'm the co-chair, along with the Minister of Agriculture. Mr. Helwer: And could the minister give me a description of the responsibilities of Planning and Priorities? Mr. Ashton : I think it deals with general policies just for government. Mr. Helwer: Does the minister have a list that he can describe or read off, of all political staff –name, position and whether they were full-time, part-time? Mr.

Ashton : What I was going to suggest on this and what we've done in previous years is actually rather than tie up committee time, which is pretty precious, I'll undertake to get the list as we draft the information up and read i nto the record, either later in proceedings this afternoon if not tomorrow. But I can certainly provide that information forthwith. * (14:50) Mr. Helwer: I would appreciate that, and I assume that we're going to get answers to questions as opposed to some of the answers that we still haven't received from last year. So I would hope that we can get these answers during committee time. Mr.

Ashton: Yes, that's our aim. I mean, there are some more detailed questions that may take a bit more time, but certain ly these are questions that we can respond to. What I'm trying to avoid is –and I, you know, have been an opposition critic as well –is what I would call the dead time where you have extensive discussions between ministers and staff, you know, getting info rmation.

So, given the shortage of time and the fact that I'm sure you, as critic, and myself as minister, want to maximize the amount of time we're talking about actual issues rather than the dead time, I'll make sure that we undertake to get that information to you.

March 19, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1051 Mr. Helwer: So I guess that at that point I'll read through the list of questions that I think the minister can provide a later time, and if there's any you can answer today, then we can deal with them there. But I do have a series here that have to do with staffing, and then some more detail as we go into the Estimates.

So, a specific list of all the staff in the minister and deputy minister's office; the number of staff currently employed by the department; and the names of staff that ha ve been hired in the past year, including whether they were hired through competition or through appointment; if there are any positions that have been reclassified, what that description of that position would be; and if all the staff years as described in here are currently filled or what the currency rate–or current vacancy rate would be; if we have a listing of all the vacant positions–we assume there's usually some in a department of your size, I would imagine; and how long we would expect to maintai n that vacancy rate or if there's a goal, a target that you have in terms of meeting the government's requirements for lowering the civil service; and certainly if there's been any impacts on what portion of the department as a result of that vacancy rate–obviously, when you have not replaced a position, sometimes it is a critical position, as in the flood- forecasting position that was recently appointed; and if there have been any projects delayed as a result of that vacancy rate.

So I'll leave it there. If there's any of those that the minister can answer, or we will read them into the record at another time. Mr. Ashton : No, I'll make sure that we get that information. That's all readily available, and we will get that. If not this afternoon, I can undertake to have it by tomorrow. Mr.

Helwer: When I'm going through the Estimates book for the last year, and the green copy here, 2014-2015, there was one thing that did strike me when I compared them to past Estimates, and that is that when I looked through significant changes–there are obviously quite a few of them –but if I were to look at say, page 45, we're talking operati ons and contracts, the contracts section.

When I look down to the line under Salaries and Employee Benefits, and I see an allowance there, less for allowance for staff turnover, that number is often changed throughout this particular Estimates, and it was not–did not in past years. The staffing numbers haven't changed. So I'm wondering if the minister can give me an explanation of why those numbers, in particular, have changed. Mr. Ashton : Well, in a broader context, I can indicate that one of the areas that we have certainly been adding staff is we've built a number of post-secondary institutions. We're responsible on the college side for capital.

We also have responsibility as well, and you'll see –and I'm more than pleased to get into some of the major investments we made on the corrections side, as well, and that –what it does result in is some additional staffing requirements. You know, the new facilities at ACC, which I know the member's very aware of, we do have responsibility that continues in term s staff, and once those are put in place –what we –and I can get the detailed information in terms of our vacancy management.

What we found on the other side, we do fill important positions, critical positions, but as is the case with other departments in government –and I don't think the members opposite would necessarily disagree with this approach, I think it's been standard for governments –you can often manage vacancies with virtually no impact in terms of services, and we've certainly done that.

So the broader trend is our number of full -time employees, and I'll get the exact number, is virtually unchanged, but there has been a –I would say, some greater efficiencies that we've built into our existing operations and we've been able to absorb additional responsibilities for the new capital facilities –I want to say responsibilities. This is the operating side within existing staff budget. So that's the basic answer in terms of that. Mr. Helwer: So then, going back page 45, if we look at this number in

part icular, is there an expectation that you will have less turnover, and is that why this number is going down? Mr. Ashton: One of the other factors, actually, is the voluntary reduced work week. We have had that in place over this past year. The reality fo r us is it certainly improves our bottom line, but when we've got a major investment taking place in terms of infrastructure we are in a position where we need that staff at times. So going into this year we're anticipating a lesser ability to accommodate that. Again, it's a voluntary program.

We did get some fairly significant interest in it, but given our very aggressive capital program we're not in a position to allocate that kind of leave on an ongoing basis.

1052 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 19, 2014 That's one of the other factors that has cha nged in between last year and this year. Mr. Helwer: So again, on page 45, going back to the line, less allowance for staff turnover, I still don't have a reason for the change in that number. If the minister can be a little bit more explicit. Mr. Ashto n: Yes, again, that number is accounted for by the fact we're not going to be approving as many days off through the voluntary reduction process.

So, if you compare to last year, we were able to save the equivalent, you know, and we will continue to have some benefits for the VRW, but the VRW will be lesser. So that's the difference. That's what that allowance refers to. Mr. Helwer: So this is not an allowance for staff turnover as much as an allowance for the voluntary reduced work week. Is that the correct way to look at it? This is– Mr. Ashton : Yes, you're quite correct. It does include other factors, yes, and that's one of them. And the management of the vacancy rate is also, you know, a factor as well.

But that's essentially the difference that's identified on that line on page 45, yes. Mr. Helwer: So in–when I look at the past couple – three years, the two previous years prior to this one, there were no differences in that. The number was the same from year to year. So is that –do I take it, then, the volunteer reduced work week was more in use during those two previous years and will be less in use during this term, or are there other factors that are engaged in this line item? Mr. Ashton: Yes, that's the main factor. We will not be approving all of the applications.

If we need somebody, a key staff person and they've asked for leave we might approve some of it, but we might not approve any of it. But that's the big difference. We're going to be really relying on our staff as we step up the program to be able to do all of the engineering work, the technical work and, you know, the finance work. So we will be –you've identified it correctly – there will be a difference this year. There will be a lesser ability for us to approve.

And I want to stress that when it comes to voluntary work reduction program, staff apply for it and we as a department then have to look at whether we can accommodate it, and we're not going to be able to accommodate as much. But it still will be available, you know, for employees where there's not a direct impact, you know, to line services. So that's –that is the difference. * (15:00) You've identified it. Over the last number of years we've had fairly constant take up in the VRW program. This year–when I say take up, take up and approval.

This year, regardless of what kind of applications we get, there will be a lesser ability to accommodate that. So we'll have fewer people able to access the program which is something, again, that is voluntary. It's not mandatory and we have to adjust according to our work situation. Mr. Helwer: So, going back to the VRW, is that a program–as you said, obviously, it's voluntary, and I imagine it is generally driven by the individual not by the department, or is there a combination thereof? And did it tend to be most individuals looking for a day during a variety of months, or, like, once a month, once a week?

Is there any consistency, or was it just pretty well just related to that individual? Mr. Ashton : It varies. It varies by function in th e department. This is a –it's a big department. It has a lot of different elements to it. And the bottom line, though, is that, you know, in the end it comes down to employees deciding whether they want to proceed or not and the department deciding on whether it can accommodate that. And, given the work pressures, you know, we're really accelerating on the infrastructure side. That is the No. 1 difference.

Just a reminder, by the way –and I know this is across government–the ability is to apply for up to 20 days, and I'm advised that the department, generally speaking, will approve up to five days routinely. But if it's more than five days, that then gets into whether the department can accommodate it in terms of work patterns and it varies throughout the department. Probably the –I'd say the No. 1 type of scenario is people taking an extra day in the summer.

And the advantage to us, obviously, and the advantage to the individual, they get, you know, a long weekend –given the shortage of one thing in Manitoba this year, with shortage of summer –often greatly appreciated. And, again, we do this in a way that we tr y and balance provision of basic services. You know, offices continue to be open, professional work continues, technical work. So, again, that's the –it's a broad system across government. Probably most departments you'd find similar administration of it. But we –we're record number employees this year. We're going to need

March 19, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1053 their services to get this capital program and the other responsibilities of the department done so there will be less of an ability to approve it. Mr. Helwer: Are there any areas of the department that made greater use of the program than others? Mr. Ashton : Yes, I think it's –it–in terms of applications it's probably generalized across the department. I'm advised that, really, in terms of our ability to accommodate, the more front line the service, the less our ability to accommodate it.

And when I say front line, that includes, you know, anything from our operators on the maintenance side through to our front -line engineering and technical staff, you know, a few people on the finance side. So it's less to do with what

section the department they're from, you know, in terms of applications or what function they have. It's more to do with our ability to accommodate that. So that'll be the bigger difference this year, re, a lot of the indi viduals involved in delivering the capital program; we're anticipating it. We're going be needing –outside of the–up to five days, which is pretty standard. We're going to need their services. So, you know, that'd be the one area that you'll notice a difference in after this year, you know, when you look at the actual experience with it. Mr. Helwer: Well, moving on then, a little bit into infrastructure, and there have been many

definitions bandied about over the last few months and years, and I guess what I'm looking for is a definition from the minister on what he sees as infrastructure. There's been discussion of core infrastructure, and there's what I would term superstructure which is things like hospitals, schools, those types of things. What can the minister tell me is his current definition of infrastructure? Mr. Ashton: Well, Mr.

Chairperso n, I referenced earlier our five-year plan, and I refer the member to, you know, the document which has –describes The Five-Year Plan to Build a Stronger Manitoba: Manitoba's core infrastructure priorities–it clearly identifies here, and this relates partic ularly to this department, roads, highways and bridges, and flood protection. There's also a component for municipal infrastructure. Obviously, you know, that's delivered by municipalities. We provide the funding for it. I know our Minister responsible for the City of Winnipeg is part of that and is here at committee.

I'm sure he'll be glad to, you know, get into some of the details in terms of the City of Winnipeg. Also, our minister for local government is a key part of that. It's roads, highways and bridges. There's other important elements to infra - structure within this department. There are various other aspects of capital investment that are important but aren't something that would fall under the core definition. I'd stress what I referenced earlier, we're responsible for an interesting mixture, it's college campuses and corrections facilities, and that's not part of the core infrastructure definition.

It's important; it fluctuates, obviously, with major projects. We're almost on the UCN campus, for example. So you'll see –over the last number of years, you'll see the budgeting for government buildings reflecting that, but that, again, is not the definition of core infrastructure. And, clearly, you know, we invest in other educational facilities, whether it be university campuses or the public school system. We invest in hospitals.

Again, that's important infrastructure, but what we put forward in our five -year plan is core infrastructure, roads, you know, highways, bridges, flood protection and municipal infrastructure. The other items fall into a broader category, and there's an interconnection obviously. Our ability, you know, to move ahead on the core infrastructure is very much driven by having the revenue source, the ability to deliver it and en sure that it doesn't come at the expense of other important infrastructure or from government operations generally.

So, despite the fact there's an interrelation, it's a very clear definition. And again I refer the member to the document, we've clearly defined what core infrastructure is, and that's very much the message we got from Manitobans. It's–they–regardless of what their view was of the 1-cent-on-the-dollar, I think everybody said one thing, and that's invest it in core infrastructure. That's what we're going to do. Mr. Helwer: Another level of government, the federal government, has a new Building Canada plan.

And is the minister, I would imagine, familiar with that plan, and what are–what–where does he see that we are going to, in Manitoba, be able apply to various parts of that plan? What is the major component that is going to benefit Manitoba? Mr. Ashton : Well, I can certainly speak from the perspective of what we've outlined in our five -year plan and also what we've experienced over the last number of years in terms of direct federal cost sharing of highway projects. To put it in perspective, I think the peak level in terms of federal cost sharing

1054 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 19, 2014 is about $90 million. That was when we had both the Building Canada Fund and the stimulus program. It has dropped down to below $30 million in terms of, you know, our highway system. We're anticipating, based on what we know, the upcoming program –and our experience in the past, and it's been documented as well –and probably in the range of about $45 million. Mr. Chair, I want to stress again, that's important. Any time we can get federal money, we're there.

We made it very clear when we brought in the 1-cent-on-the-dollar that the –we have the ability to make sure we have the matching funds. That's an important part of it. And I want to stress again that in our five-year plan, and if you'd look on page 12, we have clearly identified the total plan investment.

We've also made it clear that there's an amount that's in excess of the PST commitment that more t han accounts for any of the cost sharing for the federal government. * (15:10) And I'd stress again that our key goal here is to maximize the involvement that we get with the federal government, but overall we're anticipating that the overall federal cost sharing is probably in the range of about 5 per cent of our overall capital plan. The vast majority of the investment will be from stand-alone provincial dollars. Mr. Helwer: Mr.

Chair, in part of the federal plan there is a description of public -private partnerships– or P3s –and I have not seen anywhere that I have looked in the budget or the budget speech or Estimates, any reference to P3s in Manitoba. Are there any of these particular projects that have been announced that might work in the P3 federal program, or is that something that this government is not considering? Mr.

Ashton : Well, first of all, the –I mean, the ministers actually directly responsible for the program include both the Minister responsible for the City of Winnipeg and the minister responsible for local government, in the sense that the, you know, the federal program, the infrastructure programs. What I can tell you is the –I know the triple -P program, it's been around since I was minister, which is four years ago, and it's talked a bout a lot. There hasn't been as much take up–I want to say take up– much follow up early in terms of that. A lot of this probably depends how you define the partnerships.

We have had some experience with design-build, the best example's CentrePort Canada Way. We have a wide range of projects that range up to that level. We have not had any experience with design-build finance; the primary reason for that is because the public sector is basically in a better position in terms of borrowing because of lower risk. So there aren't the finance advantages. But we've been very innovative through a lot of the design-build projects we put in place and some of the other measures we put in place in terms of that.

And I can indicate, too, by the way, in the go forward we're going to continue to look at innovative ways of handling major projects. I can indicate, by the way, that in terms of the triple-P's–I mean, I've met with various, you know, stakeholders in the triple -P side. One of the issues there is often the scope of the project. These are large projects, certainly by Manitoba standards, and we're got five -year commitments of $300 million -plus on Highway 1. But a lot of cases you're often talking about the interest in triple -P's really starts at a very high t hreshold.

You know, I'm talking 100– 200 million dollars-plus and certainly that's been the communication from the stakeholders, as well. So we're doing a lot of innovative stuff. We have an access to triple -P, I don't think there's been much accessing of that across Canada. And there are projects, by the way, that certainly would fit the parameters [inaudible]. I'll put forward, you know, the Port of Churchill.

It's a –one of the absolute example of a private -public partnership, it's the Port of Churchill and the Bay line; it's privately owned and both the federal and provincial governments have put in significant money for upgrades and it could very well be a, you know, source down the line, you know, if the federal government's interested in, you know, a triple -P Port of Churchill would fit the bill significantly–especially if there's a significant upgrade in port facilities which, you know, could raise it to a level that would solicit some significant interest.

So we haven't closed the door on any of that but, you know, right now with some of the innovation we've done, we've been able to basically have a significant increase, you know, using our finance [inaudible] and, you know, innovative approaches on the management side. Mr. Helwer: There is a portion of the federal fund I believe refers to gateways and border crosses – crossing, critical trade routes, that type of thing. And I–my understanding is that is a 50- 50 cost -share

March 19, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1055 program of 50 per cent federal, 50 per cent provincial. Does the –can the minister tell me which, or if any of the potential projects in Manitoba might be applicable to that particular fund? Mr. Ashton : What I see is I can get you a list of some of the projects that we've done that have been eligible. The reason it's more difficult with upcoming projects is obviously the federal government is now in a position of finalizing the–you know, the detailed criteria. We know what the broader criteria are. We will certainly look at any and all eligible projects.

We anticipate that we have a significant number of projects, in fact, quite a few more than the available federal funding. Any funding that's available in terms of the trade corridor, et cetera, we'll make sure we access. We are doing so me significant work right now working with the town of Emerson. There's a lot of work being done in and around the border area, and that's important. As well, there's going to be some upcoming work in terms of that.

But it's hard to get a full list until we actually get the final criteria and get projects put in place, but I'd stress the fact that we've accessed money already and we will do in the future. It's not the larger amount. The large amount tends to come from Building Canada Fund, but it's important. And the port of Emerson, for example, it's the busiest port west of Ontario. A lot of people aren't aware of that.

It's busier than anything in BC, Alberta, or Saskatchewan, and we've had some success working with the federal government and the local town of Emerson, and we'll continue to try and upgrade those facilities. We're anticipating, by the way, some very significant improvements in and around that area that will also plug Emerson in as a community more. That's one of the ongoing concerns. I know that –the member from Emerson looking at me and he knows that to be the case.

So we're not just focusing on the border, but we're also looking at one of the ongoing concerns which is get more services when you actually are at the border, more ability t o get spinoffs for the community. So we anticipate there'll be quite a bit of work happening there. How much of it will be cost - shared? Hard to say right now. Mr. Cliff Graydon (Emerson): I'd like to ask the minister when that project was going to start in Emerson. Mr. Ashton : Well, there are various different components to it. I can indicate I just recently met with the mayor and a local resident.

I know that the member's also been in constant contact with the community, and we're also looking, by the way, at some of the sugges ted changes that the community's put forward. I describe the meeting as a very positive meeting. It's one of the better meetings we've had in a number of years, and I do want to stress that there's still some more work to be done on the actual plan itself. There's some input from the community that I think needs to be dealt with. We also have to deal with, quite frankly, the way in which–and the criteria for closures to Highway 75.

And we've had this discussion, I know, but I've certainly experienced firs t-hand how this is a major concern. And it's not the department that makes the call; it's the RCMP. And, you know, I'm not being critical, but essentially a gate goes across, a padlock goes up, and you have to rely on the border staff to let you know, othe rwise you don't know that it's closed and you also don't know that there are alternate routes. And I had that happen when I went down to meet with the mayor of Fargo and the interstate was open, Highway 75 wasn't. And it's a major concern for people in and around Emerson.

So I think there's got to be some additional work done on that. And one of the important things we're looking at, by the way–and I really appreciate the perspective of the mayor, who knows it from the border side as well as being mayor. I think there's some work we can do on 75 as well, because we've also got to make it more user -friendly. I think there are a lot of American tourists come up. It's great to have the surface of the highway upgraded. That's important to them, but any more s ervices, some better signage in terms of some of the amenities, et cetera. So we're also taking those comments very seriously.

Mr. Graydon: As the minister pointed out, it is –the border crossing in Emerson is the largest border crossing west of Fort Erie, the fifth largest in Canada, and it is the face of western Canada, certainly, the face of Manitoba. And, also, with the development of CentrePort it's clear that we need to streamline and thin the border that we can move the product that needs to move from Manitoba and from western Canada through Manitoba, both directions, that I would suggest that the American side of the border has had significant work done in the last two years.

I would wonder if the minister can tell us if the $10 million that the fede ral government put

1056 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 19, 2014 towards this project, if that's still on the table and still available. * (15:20) Mr. Ashton: Well, as he says, I undertake to get a detailed answer on the question. Certainly we've accessed funding from the feds already over the last number of years in certain elements, but I can get the member a full update, perhaps, if not later today, by tomorrow. Mr. Graydon: Is there –with the update and the proposed changes at the border, will there still be significant access to the town of Emerson? Mr.

Ashton: Yes, we're–that was one of the issues came up at the meeting. That's certainly of concern to us, to–you know, to maintain the access. One of the others is actually services. There's a real potential there for additional retail. You know , there's the duty-free, but given the amount of traffic we're talking, 2 and a half million, I think, border crossings a year, you know –so that's part of it as well. And I think that there's got to be an improvement on that. We need to have more services.

There's a lot – whether it's Americans coming up, or Canadians coming back home, there –you know, there's –there are services on the US side. There are services available in Emerson. People aren't always necessarily aware of that, but there are limited services on 75 itself. So part of the discussion we had was ensuring that whatever we do on the transportation side, to keep it open. Whatever is done on the border -crossing side as well, you know, this also involves, you know, the customs, as well, that we make sure that Emerson is not only not shut -out, but is able to benefit more from the crossings.

When I look at it, by the way, there should be a lot more happening in and around Emerson. We've got to make sure we work hard at the solution for that. Mr. Graydon: I thank the minister for that, and I would like to point out that Emerson is a unique community. And, as we're going into a –the 100th anniversary of the–or 150th anniversary of the province of Manitoba, would it be fair to say that the project will be completed by that time? Mr. Ashton : It's an interesting time frame, so I appreciate the–I'll take it as a suggestion as much as a question.

And I do want to acknowledge that most people have no idea what the history of Emerson is. I mean, it was essentially at one time the– you know, going to be the capital city. It has been a boom town at various different times. But, you know, the politics change things a bit in terms of the –you know, the borders. Flooding was a chronic problem. We have made a huge difference there over the last number of years. I love the pictures in the town office where you can see where the flood waters come up to, what, the third, fourth floor of the hotel? That's not good for long- term settlement.

That's been resolved by the rain dikes in the area. So I'll take that a s a suggestion. I think we can a lot more in Emerson, and that's –that one area I do agree with the member, and if we can do it in that time frame, let's look at it. Mr. Graydon: I–not–the minister's not here for a history lesson, but at one time Emerson did have a population that exceeded where the minister himself lives right now. It was the first crossing, that was the St. Paul's trail, and that's also where the first international railroad was built in western Canada from Winnipeg south, so it has a uni que history.

It's a unique community and it serves as a face to Manitoba, and it would certainly be appropriate that if it can be completed and should be completed in that time frame that I suggested. Mr. Helwer: Getting back to the federal programs, my understanding is the end of this month is the opening application date. And are there other critical dates in the program, or is that the major one that the gates open, then, shall we say, and I imagine you have applications that may be ready to go? Mr. Ashton: Yes, in a process–I stress we have quite a few projects coming up that will be eligible for cost sharing.

If you look at the experience we've had over the last number of years, the type of projects that have been approved, a lot of them on the nat ional highway system –not exclusively. We have some regional highways as well. We're able to access that. A lot of our focus is on the national highway system. I'm sure the member has seen some of the criteria for the program. They would fit into that. I'd stress again, too, that these are new projects. You know, that one of the key criteria with any program is that they be new projects, so we've got a significant amount of focus on new projects.

There's 175, Highway 10 I referenced earlier today in question period, Highway 6, so that's the next step. The member is quite correct, and we're very optimistic we're going to be able to access the kind of levels we've identified in our five -year plan in the way of federal cost-sharing.

March 19, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1057 Mr. Helwer: Are there any of the many announcements that we've tracked over the last little while that you anticipate will not be eligible for federal funding? Mr. Ashton: Well, the bigger issue is really there are limits in terms of federal funding, as the member knows, based on, you know, the provincial allocation overall, so the bigger challenge, and I know this having been the minister responsible, that this is to take numerous eligible projects and narrow it down to what can fit into that overall budget.

That applies to munic ipalities as well; I'm sure the Minister responsible for Winnipeg here and, certainly, local government, there'll be the same challenge. I know last time on the municipal side, as –a bit outside of this department, but there was –we were looking at three, fo ur, five times the number of applications relative to funding, so a lot of these projects, we believe, would be eligible. The question is which ones would actually be cost-shared. Mr. Helwer: Well, I have some questions about particular projects, and why don't I start at home in Brandon–announcements, many announcements last week.

But there was some surprise from the mayor, from the MLA for Brandon East and it looked like from the minister in the House that the 1st Street Bridge was going to take priority over 18th Street due to some engineering analysis, I imagine, that had been done over the past several years. I know the deck has been cut in various areas over many years just to inspect the cross members underneath, I imagine. Can the minister elaborat e on the needs of the 1st Street Bridge and what we might anticipate learning or hearing or seeing happen over the next year? Mr.

Ashton: Well, the first thing I want to stress on the 1st Street Bridge, it is, you know, a bridge that we have been maintai ning, inspecting. I can get into the inspections –like, we did level 3 inspections in 2009, 2011. So it's just like with any of our bridges; we have an ongoing inspection program. I want to stress as well that we've made $80 million in announcements. The commitment for the Daly street overpass is not affected by that.

One of the advantages of our investment in infrastructure and the fact that we do have this additional funding is that we don't have to, you know, bump a project that's important for another project that's perhaps important with some, you know, significant time frames. To my mind this is not to be unexpected. The bridge, I believe, was built in 1972, I think. It's –you know, it's 40- plus years old. This is not out of line with what we've been dealing with elsewhere. There are–there were some flooding issues. The member will know we did take some remedial action.

But this is not unlike the situation we face with bridges across the province, and one thing I can stress, by the way, as we get into the five -year plan, there is a year-over-year increased focus every year on bridges because a lot of those bridges are coming up for renewal, and this is really what it's about. So there's not bumping in projects. The $80 million is good news all the wa y around, and I, you know, I know the member's aware of some of the projects that were there. I can certainly get into details on some of the other projects in the area. But, certainly, it was no surprise.

I mean, this has been something we've been doing, and, again, it's part of what we're doing across the province. We get any issues with bridges, we don't wait. We act, and we put the finances in and we put the engineering teams working on this, and we'll also work to minimize any of the disruption in the area. So this, again, is in–very much what our infrastructure program's about – making sure our bridges can continue to be in place. * (15:30) Mr.

Helwer: Well, then, going back to the detail, can the minister tell me what will actually be done on the bridg e over this next year, and what will be the dollars spent by the Province on the 1st Street Bridge over the next year? Mr. Ashton : Yes, I can –getting the –going through the detailed capital plan right now. You know what? What I was going to suggest – we're just getting this, so I can probably read in the record in a few minutes. I'm advised, by the way, I can go straight into it.

Anticipating the costs, it will be around $10 million and engineering work this year out to tender and significant construction the following two years. Mr. Helwer: So to understand–for me to understand this, then, we anticipate engineering work will be done this year, no probable construction happening on the bridge this year, probably the next year or the year after and a total expenditure of $10 million. Is that correct? Mr. Ashton: That's correct.

1058 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 19, 2014 Mr. Helwer: Was there any damage done to the bridge during the flood that needed to be –needed remediation, or is that future? Mr. A shton: Some; there was rail work that was done, and the primary focus, though, was not –this is not flood related. I mean, we've had a lot of challenges with floods elsewhere in the province. A lot of it is just to do with the general age of the infrastructure and the fact that we're going to significantly renew it, so it's some flood impacts, but that's not the primary reason we're doing this. Mr.

Helwer: So, then, moving over a mile to the 18th Street Bridge, the Daly street –the Daly bridge, lots of di scussion, obviously, from the city of Brandon on the need to make this into a four -lane structure. And I know that the province has mentioned it. It is still a trade route, obviously, to the border crossing at Boissevain, and the minister mentioned No. 10 Highway running north today in question period. So, obviously he recognizes the importance of that route, nowhere near the traffic that we see down No. 75, but nonetheless an alternative route.

Will there be any dollars spent on Daly–the Daly Overpass t his year or any plans, any engineering done? Mr. Ashton : It's very similar situation to the 1st Street Bridge. We're doing the engineering, and then we'd move to construction in subsequent years. Mr. Helwer: The numbers that have been bandied about for the Daly street bridge are around $66 million. Is that an accurate estimate to rebuild that bridge, if that is, indeed, what's going to be done to make it into a four-lane? Mr.

Ashton: First of all, just to also add, there are some right -of-way issues that we're –the member's aware of and we will have to deal with. And the member's asking in terms of our current scope in terms of cost. I can–yes, I can get the latest estimate. It is a significant investment. The member's quite correct. The range that t he member's talking about is probably–it's accurate at this level but, of course, as he will know, the next step is the more detailed engineering work and that can add some more specificity to the number.

But it's a very significant investment–imp ortant priority for Brandon, important priority for us. Mr. Helwer: Is that the type of structure that would qualify for the Gateways and Border Crossings Fund as a 50 -50 federal -provincial cost share? Or there was talk at one time of expecting the city to kick in a third of it, which, there was lots of discussion about that around the table in Brandon, I'm sure. But is that a type of a structure that would of –would apply for 50-50 dollars? Mr. Ashton : Yes, again, that's –it's–dare I say, it depends. You know, I want to stress my previous discussion.

I won't repeat it. We' re going to have a lot of projects, a lot more eligibility than funding that's available. So it may come down, again, more to what we submit and what the feds want to be a part of rather than, you know, than us actually really driving it. I mean, the reali ty is –I'll just talk as a minister–what matters to me as minister is getting the project done. If we need any cost -sharing, probably the Minister of Finance (Ms. Howard) is the one that's the most pleased about that. And it really doesn't make a heck of a lot difference to us what projects get cost -sharing.

You know, our job is to deliver the project. This one, by the way –and the member's quite accurate in terms of this –it's a huge issue. This is a huge priority for the city of Brandon. And I'm going to the city, you know, both the municipal end of it, but also people of Brandon. And it's just another example, a lot of the growth in Brandon and a lot of the additional infrastructure pressures that are out there, and it's going to be one of our major projec ts across the province. And you know, we're–I'll tell on the department side, we're looking forward to it.

It's going to be a really significant benefit and it's going to position Brandon for many years to come. Mr. Helwer: Well, the minister mentioned right-of-way issues, and I well understand the right-of-way issues. My office will probably be affected, as I am at the corner of 18th Street and Rosser and various designs I have seen would be that that might be, indeed, where the bridge is going to end. But nothing– An Honourable Member: Nothing personal. Mr. Helwer: I understand. You know, I'm not quite at the corner; I'm at the back lane.

But no, I certainly do understand that any time you go into projects of this type that were built a number of years ago to serve the needs at that point, you do have to look at changing the entry to the bridge and the exits from it. So I certainly understand there's going to be an impact. There's buildings that are adjacent to the

March 19, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1059 bridge that I'm sure the minister has s een and knows which ones they need to deal with, whether they have dealt with some already, perhaps. But perhaps the minister would like to comment on some of that. Mr. Ashton: I'll just say what I said off the record on the record: nothing personal. And I can say that the member's identified some of the challenges that we are going to be dealing with in terms of right -of-way and impact on the surrounding land. That will be a key element of the design phase.

And one thing, again, I want to stress, with the department, when we do designs our engineers don't just look at the pure engineering. They–we have a lot of experience working in urban environments. We have a lot of experience working with municipal governments, with stakeholders, and any of our ma jor projects go through a number of phases. But one of the key phases is always working with the community, seeking community input. So, you know, I can assure the member that that will be a absolutely key focus here.

We recognize this is important to Br andon, but we also recognize there's often ways in which you can minimize inconvenience, minimize impact on the surrounding areas. We'd have to deal with the rail side, as well –I mean–which does complicate things. But, quite frankly, we've had experience with that, as well, you know, in other areas. And we certainly are working hard to develop a good working relationship with all the rail lines.

I mentioned in terms of grain transport, but there are other issues like CentrePort Canada Way, and –leads into this, as well, where having that working relationship with the rail side is important. So, yes, bottom line, this is a complex project. It's an ambitious project and it's important project and we're going to build it. * (15:40) Mr. Helwer: Another project –well, I'll stick with Brandon for just a –probably another couple questions, and another one on the mayor's wish list, of course, was the airport reconstruction. They have an ambitious plan there.

I'm –my recollection is that the federal government transferred airports such as the Brandon–McGill Field, Brandon Municipal Airport to the city in –around 1996, and it is the responsibility of the City for the maintenance and construction and –although there have been federal dollars that have gone into navigation and lights and other things of that nature. Is there any –obviously, there's appetite in the province to do projects of this type, but not necessarily announced. And can you give us some indication of what the City should look to the Province for, in terms of help with rebuilding the airport? Mr.

Ashton : Well, the member's correct about the history. Essentially, the government of the day, which was the Liberal government, basically went through a wholesale devolution and 'privization ' of transportation in the country. One of the things that didn't follow the devolution and 'privization' was a significant revenue stream and, in fact –and, you know, I've raised this most recently with the Manitoba Aviation Council; I spoke to their AGM. For a country that is so geographically large and relies on air transportation, the irony is we take money out of airports.

We take money out of the larger airports–goes to general revenue for the federal government. Put it in perspective, the airport in G rand Forks receives a subsidy from the US federal government. So, not only do we have a situation–we're taking money out of aviation, we look at increasingly difficult scenario for our airports, trying to compete with US airports, both on the subsidy side and landing fees and other costs that are also assessed on passengers. We–our role, in terms of airports, is primarily the northern airports, the 22 airports that provide access into remote communities and semi -remote communities.

We do provide a basic tr ansfer to municipalities. There's a small grant that is provided. One of the key issues really here, I think, is again– and I don't mean this as a political shot. It's –this applies to all the previous governments. It's not the current government that, you know, created this problem; they inherited it. But I do think, you know, the broader issue for sustainability of airports has to be based on the federal government not taking money out of aviation and putting money back in. And Brandon's a good example.

I mean, it's good to see the WestJet interest in Brandon, but Brandon's been through this before –been airlines come and go. Clearly, what's helping drive Brandon Airport now is the development of the oil patch and the need of the industry to get, you know, professionals, front- line workers, people from, you know, corporate headquarters in Calgary in and out, and Brandon's the logical site for it. But, you know, what does strike me is, for the province's second largest city,

1060 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 19, 2014 having an airport that's viable should be something that should be part of any national transportation strategy. I know Brandon doesn't have, say, the air movements like Thompson is much more significant because of its remoteness, but I do think the mayors are quite right to be, you know , putting forward that vision. Certainly, I'm sure both MLAs are –you know, are fully in support of that kind of vision as well, but I–you know, again, the broader fix to this is really part of a national transportation element.

And, by the way, I want to include a lot of the other municipal airports as well. A lot of our municipal airports are seeing more traffic. STARS – I'm not going to get into the STARS issue itself, but STARS does fly into rural airports. A lot of airports in the member's area, outsi de of Brandon, are pretty busy right now. And, you know, different municipalities are having greater or lesser success in making them viable. In many cases, a lot of volunteer effort goes in a lot of cases –you know, flying clubs and local businesses, you know, those under the crop- dusting side.

So, you know, is that sustainable long term? I'm not sure it is. Again, though, I think that's one of the missing elements of that devolution. It should've –there should've been an ongoing revenue stream, and I'm not saying the 'federment' doesn't provide money for navigational aids; they do. What they don't provide funding for is basic operation of airports and they don't provide it for basic capital. And most of the municipal airports, including Brandon–that's the make-or-break on the business case, not the –you know, the one -off grants you can get.

And there have been grants given, you know, for surfacing of runways, but you got to have a business plan that's – covers operating and capital and we'll certainly be supportive. I mean, I've raised this with our federal minister–raised it. I'm not the only minister; a lot of other ministers are in the same boat. But, you know, there's got to a way to make sure that there's a viable airport in the second largest city in the province. Mr. Helwer: The Dauphin airport is another one that was brought up. As I've been travelling around, as – needing some help there.

I don't know that it falls into the minister's northern airport authority, if you want to call it that. I think it' s probably south of there. But–and, of course, we see the various small airports that the minister mentioned in the oil patch there where they were sustained by the flying clubs and buying the spray planes and those types of things, but are now seeing a l ittle bit more traffic. Of course, who knows how long that traffic's going to last and what it's going to be.

Certainly, I don't think you're going to bring a jet into Waskada or Deloraine, but you may see and have seen, I know, some of the twins coming i n there –twin engines, smaller planes –come in with people from Alberta, that type of thing, to get there faster. But–so the northern airport, I imagine, would be north of Dauphin, and where does it start and what does it include? Mr. Ashton : Essentially, the distinction is not just geographic. Dauphin has a municipal airport. Thompson, for example, is a –it's a airport authority which involves municipality and local First Nations.

There's a couple special cases where the, you know, the town of Churchill, which is under federal jurisdiction, but it's essentially the 22 northern airports are for remote and semi -remote communities. It goes back to the '70s. It was the provincial government that put the airports in. Many of them serve First Nations communities, some serve Northern Affairs communities. There is an airport that–a second airport in The Pas which plays a key role in terms of patient transportation and, you know, there are some other airports in that category.

But, generally speaking, municipal airports are, again, the responsibility of the municipalities. I can indicate, for example, we have been working with Lynn Lake. Their airport was at risk of closure. They now have a local partnership with a private business that's keeping it open. And I'll be the first one to acknowledge it, there's a lot of challenges for our municipal airports and there is need for more of a dedicated stream. Part of it, by the way, is even on the capit

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	40-3-32
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	40th 3rd hansardpdf 32.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	1e679d6554e2ccbd20d4bd2e8ad772ec80540aa2

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