Manitoba Hansard — 1 May 2002 (Sitting 24, 37th Legislature, 3rd Session)

37-3-24

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Third Session- Thirty-Seventh Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable George Hickes Speaker Vol. LII No. 24- 1:30 p.m., Wednesday, May 1, 2002

Member AGLUGUB, Cris ALLAN, Nancy ASHTON, Steve, Hon. ASPER, Linda BARRETT, Becky, Hon. CALDWELL, Drew, Hon. CERILLI, Marianne CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. CUMMINGS, Glen DACQUA Y, Louise DERKACH, Leonard DEWAR, Gregory DOER, Gary, Hon. DRIEDGER, Myrna DYCK, Peter ENNS, Harry FAURSCHOU, David FRIESEN, Jean, Hon. GERRARD, Jon, Hon. GILLESHAMMER, Harold HA WRANIK, Gerald HELWER, Edward HICKES, George JENNISSEN, Gerard KORZENIOWSKJ, Bonnie LATHLIN, Oscar, Hon. LAURENDEAU, Marcel LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. LOEWEN, John MACKJNTOSH, Gord, Hon. MAGUIRE, Larry MALOWAY,Jim MARTINDALE, Doug McGIFFORD, Diane, Hon. MIHYCHUK, MaryAnn, Hon.

MITCHELSON, Bonnie MURRAY, Stuart NEV AKSHONOFF, Tom PENNER, Jack PENNER, Jim PITURA, Frank REID, Daryl REIMER, Jack ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. ROCAN, Denis RONDEAU, Jim SALE, Tim, Hon. SANTOS, Conrad SCHELLENBERG, Harry SCHULER, Ron SELINGER, Greg, Hon. SMITH, Joy SMITH, Scott, Hon. STEFANSON, Heather STRUTHERS, Stan TWEED, Mervin WOWCHUK, Rosann, Hon. MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Seventh Legislature Constituency The Maples St. Vital Thompson Riel Inkster Brandon East Radisson Kildonan Ste.

Rose Seine River Russell Selkirk Concordia Charles wood Pembina Lakeside Portage Ia Prairie Wolseley River Heights Minnedosa Lac du Bonnet Gimli Point Douglas Flin Flon St. James The Pas St. Norbert La Verendrye Fort Whyte St. Johns Arthur-Virden Elmwood Burrows Lord Roberts Minto River East Kirkfield Park Interlake Emerson Steinbach Morris Transcona Southdale Rupertsland Carman Assiniboia Fort Rouge Wellington Ross mere Springfield St. Boniface Fort Garry Brandon West Tuxedo Dauphin-Roblin Turtle Mountain Swan River Political Affiliation N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. P.C. P.C. P.C.

N.D.P. N.D.P. P.C. P.C. P.C. P.C. N.D.P. Lib. P.C. P.C. P.C. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. P.C. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. P.C. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P.

941 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Wednesday, May 1, 2002 The House met at 1:30 p.m. PRAYERS ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS TABLING OF REPORTS Hon. Oscar Lathlin (Minister of Conservation): Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to table the 2002-2003 Supplementary Estimates Infom1ation for the Department of Conservation. INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 5-The Workers Compensation Amendment Act Hon. Becky Barrett (Minister charged with the administration of The Workers Compensation Act): I move, seconded by the Minister of Transportation and Government Services (Mr. Ashton), that leave be given to introduce BillS, The Workers Compensation Amendment Act; Loi modifiant Ia

Loi sur les accidents du travail, and that the same be now received and read a first time. Motion presented. Ms. Barrett: Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to introduce The Workers Compensation Amend ment Act. This act creates a rebuttable presumption that if a full-time firefighter who is employed for a minimum period gets primary site brain, bladder or kidney cancer, primary non-Hodgkin's, lymphoma or leukemia, the dominant cause of the disease is the employment as a firefighter.

I am pleased to have worked in consultation with the firefighters, many of whom are here in the gallery today, and anticipate that we will have the full support of all members in the Legislature for the very quick passage of this important legislation. Motion agreed to. Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House Leader): Could you canvass the House to see if there is leave to revert to ministerial statements and tabling of reports, please? Mr. Speaker: Is there leave to revert back to ministerial statements and tabling of reports? {Agreed] MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS U.S. Agriculture Support Hon.

Rosano Wowchuk (Minister of Agriculture and Food): Mr. Speaker, I have a statement for the House. * (13:35) Mr. Speaker: Before recogmzmg the honourable Minister of Agriculture and Food, I would just like to remind all honourable ministers when bringing in ministerial state ments to please bring 12 copies for the critics and House leaders. Twelve copies, I would just like to remind all ministers. Ms. Wowchuk: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to address an important issue for Manitoba farmers and for the Canadian agriculture industry in general. Last Friday, the joint committee of the U.S.

Senate and House of Representatives negotiated a final version of a new U.S. farm bill that proposes to spend almost $73.5 billion more over 10 years in support of the U.S. agriculture industry. This is above the current level of $90 billion already provided to the U.S. farmers. This level of support is of great concern to our farmers and to our Government. In 2000, the U.S. recorded the highest producer support equivalents for wheat of all exporters at 49 percent, significantly higher than the European Union at 43 percent and 17 percent in Canada. Already, Mr. Speaker, U.S. subsidies in

942 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 1, 2002 grains and oilseeds cost Manitoba farmers about $250 million yearly in reduced prices. This increased support under the proposed farm bill will negatively influence international markets and continue to drive down prices for Manitoban and Canadian producers. Other provisions in the bill include a plan for mandatory country-of-origin labelling for meats and products and the inclusion of pulse crops in the farm bill coverage. Mr. Speaker, a key success story for Manitoba has been the diversification into pulse crops.

In the past four years, Manitoba farmers have seeded an average of 192 000 acres in these crops. These acreages are clearly threatened with the U.S. loan program for pulses and the potential to increase U.S. production. Mr. Speaker, the U.S. farm bill has not been passed, but the bill is rapidly moving towards ratification. I want to inform the House that I am sending a letter to the federal Minister of Agriculture and his counterpart, the Minister of International Trade, outlining these concerns.

I also want to inform the Legislature that I will raise these issues at the Federal-Provincial-Territorial min isters meetings in Ottawa on May 6 and 7. I will also take a strong position at the Tri-National accord meeting in Arizona in mid-May. It is my intention to speak directly to my U.S. counter parts in the Provincial-State Advisory group. Following these meetings, Mr. Speaker, will bring more information to this House on this important matter. Mr. Jack Penner (Emerson): As critic for the Agriculture portfolio, I would like to put a few words on the record.

The $73.5 -billion increase that the minister notes, and I thank the minister for this statement because I think it is appropriate to deal with it at this time although it has not yet passed the U.S. Senate or the House. I understand that the S�nate and the House have agreed on a formula now which will see the majority of the monies, the $73.5 billion, spent in the first six years of titf mandate, which leads us into a six-year prograai that we are facing. * (13:40) The second one is that the pulse crops have been included except for dry beans.

Dry beans have been excluded from the U.S. farm bill due to a lobby put on by the dry bean growers in the U.S., that they did not want to be included at this time. That does not mean that they will be excluded totally forever, but certainly I think this proves what members of our side of this House have been saying for the longest time, that the agricultural community in the province of Manitoba is being attacked time and again by Americans, by Europeans and, indeed, by other provinces in this country. I think it is time, Mr. Speaker, that our Minister of Agriculture and the Premier (Mr.

Doer) jointly go to Ottawa and meet with the Prime Minister, and take along the farm leaders of western Canada to make the case that our farmers can no longer single-handedly fight the U.S. treasury in an international competition. Our farmers simply have not got big enough pockets. I know Mr. Lyle Vanclief, the Minister of Agriculture federally, has said that the federal government cannot fight this trade war. How in the deuce do we expect individual farmers to be able to compete against a 125-billion farm bill that was in place and now add 73 billion to it?

It will be a $200-billion plus farm bill in the U.S. that U.S. farmers will be able to-the effect of which you saw in the last two days in the marketplace. It plummeted in Canola, it plum meted wheat prices and it plummeted virtually every other commodity in the marketplace, and that is a result of the decision that the Americans are making. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): I ask for leave to speak on the minister's statement. Mr. Speaker: Does the honourable Member for River Heights have leave? [Agreed] Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Speaker, I rise to thank the minister for bringing this issue forward.

It is clearly a very important one for Manitoba. I think it is important that we take each and every, and indeed all opportunities to speak out against the subsidies that the United States is putting forward, the distortion of trade practices, that we make it very clear that these distortions which the United States is entering into make a major

May 1, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 943 problem for the organization of global free markets in agriculture and create major problems for producers in Manitoba as well as elsewhere.

I think it is also important, as we pay attention to agriculture, that we make sure that at the provincial level we are doing things to provide the fundamental support appropriately, that, for example, last year when there was several hundreds of millions of dollars in crop losses because of problems with provincial drains and poor organization of drainage that we make a major effort to improve this and make sure that we are providing in all ways we can at the provincial level the kind of support our producers really need. Introduction of Guests Mr.

Speaker: Prior to Oral Questions, I would like to draw the attention of all honourable members to the public gallery where we have with us from the Lions Place 16 visitors under the direction of Mrs. Colleen Epp. This centre is located in the constituency of the honourable Minister of Intergovenunental Affairs (Ms. Friesen). On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you here today. ORAL QUESTION PERIOD Budget 2001 Balanced Budget Mr. Stuart Murray (Leader of the Official Opposition): Mr. Speaker, I would like to also just comment that we welcome the firefighters that were in the gallery today.

We would like to on behalf of all members I believe thank them for the hard work they do on behalf of all the citizens. We are delighted that the minister has recognized this by bringing in her amendment today to the Workers Compensation. * (13:45) Mr. Speaker, during the Budget Address, the Finance Minister indicated that the Doer government would be raiding Manitoba Hydro for $288 million; $150 million of that was used to pay last year's books. It was used to pay down the deficit from last year.

Will the Premier today admit to all Manitobans, admit to this Legis lature the year 2001-2002, that Budget for last year was not a balanced budget? Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Mr. Speaker, first of all, I am very proud of the Minister of Labour's (Ms. Barrett) amendment to The Workers Compensation Act. I want to thank the firefighters and the Workers Compensation Board for their excellent research in this matter. Some of us were opposed to the amendment to The Workers Compensation Act back in '88-89, after a decision was made in the courts.

In fact, I think it was a minority government at the time and both the Conservatives and Liberals voted, regrettably, I think, to amend this act. I am glad that a wrong is being righted today in the Legislature. Secondly, Mr. Speaker, over the last four or five years there have been considerable amounts of sums placed in budgets from rainy day funds, so-called fiscal stabilization funds. In fact, the rainy day fund was established with legislation that was introduced by former Finance Minister Manness.

To go back nine months into a previous fiscal year and create a deficit-in one year to create a fiscal stabilization fund in a subsequent year. The members opposite will also know that $100 million was taken out of the rainy day fund in '97-98, I believe; '98-99, $185 million for a debt repayment of $75 million, and $185 million in '99-2000 for a debt repayment of $75 million. The members opposite will know that not only was the Budget balanced in year 2000-2001 but the $96-million debt repayment did not require a draw from the Fiscal Stabilization Fund.

The amount of money required from the Fiscal Stabilization Fund in the previous year has also been dealt with with the revenues from U.S. export sales, and so we have another $96 million in debt repayment that I think puts Manitoba in pretty good stead. Some provinces are not paying down debt. Some provinces are taking away more money out of Crown corporations. Some provinces are running major deficits. I think with the 200 I

94 4 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 1, 2002 fiscal year and given the uncertainty of that fiscal year most Manitobans are saying to us it is a pretty sensible way to go. I was reminded by a member of the Business Council of Manitoba today that I should be speaking out to the fact that this was an idea that the Business Council of Manitoba presented to the Government in their consultations with the Government. Budget 2002 Balanced Budget Mr. Stuart Murray (Leader of the Official Opposition): Mr. Speaker, I find it interesting.

I was also talking to numbers of members of the Business Council who said never should you on an ad hoc basis go in and take 72 percent of profits and use it for government revenues. That is clearly what they said. We have heard this Premier say continually to Manitobans: Well, look,there is no Brink's truck here. There is no Brink's truck that I can see. Well, on the night of April22 , on the day before the Budget came in, there they were, Mr. Speaker, like Bonnie and Clyde, backing a Brink's truck up to Manitoba Hydro, taking $288 million out of Manitoba Hydro profits and they drove it to the Legislature.

They loaded up the Brink's truck from Manitoba Hydro, moved it here with $288 million. Will the Premier today admit that the 2002-03, this year's Budget, is not a balanced Budget? Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): What hypocrisy, Mr. Speaker. Here we have members opposite that virtually did steal the Manitoba Telephone System away from the people of Manitoba. They put over $4 00 million into budgets from 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998 and 1999. How dare they criticize former Premier Filmon?

That is what they are doing with their question. * (13:50) But we will be critical of members opposite when they talk about stealing Crown corpora tions. The only Crown corporation that was stolen in the middle of the night without permission of the public was the Manitoba Telephone System on November 8 and 9 in 1995-1996. Mr. Speaker, we have a similar situation going on with Ontario Hydro. Never ever elect a Tory government and expect the Crown corpora tions to be used for the benefit of all the citizens. Health care, education, dealing with the debt repayment- Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr.

Doer: Health care, education, children, highways, early childhood development, debt reduction, tax reduction. Mr. Speaker, I will go on when the member opposite regurgitates his other question. Mr. Murray: Just like you to presume everything. Balanced Budget Legislation Amendments Mr. Stuart Murray (Leader of the Official Opposition): Mr. Speaker, when The Manitoba Hydro Act was initially passed, politicians at that time, some 40 years ago, had the foresight to look into the future and ensure that the governments of the day would not use a Crown corporation, go in and raid it, because they had a spending problem.

That is what this document was all about. We know full well that the honourable first leader, that if he has a problem with something and does not like it, he just changes the legislation. We have seen him just change the legislation. So now what are we doing, Mr. Speaker? He is going in and he is going to change The Manitoba Hydro Act to satisfy one simple thing, his spending problem. That is the only reason. Can the Premier commit today to this Legislature and to all hardworking Manitobans that he will uphold the existing balanced budget legislation? Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Mr.

Speaker, we plan no amendments to the balanced budget legislation. The former communications director for the Conservative Party in the last election campaign

May 1, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 945 must have xeroxed or prepared a press release from Thompson, Manitoba, where the former Premier of Manitoba promised to have a "dividend" for Manitoba Hydro for economic development. I would have thought the member opposite was in the so-called Tory loop. * (13:55) I think Manitobans should be proud of the fact, Mr. Speaker, that today the Royal Bank of Canada has come out, the RBC Financial Group has come out on a provincial outlet: Manitoba's diversified economy holding up surprisingly well, predicting a 3- Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr.

Doer: Mr. Speaker, talking about the increased employment opportunities, the record high improvement in retail sales, the record-high numbers of housing starts, people are voting with their decisions in our economy, and they are positive decisions. The bank goes on to say: Strengthening the farm economy, relatively low unemployment and another modest reduction in tax burden shall continue to support consumer confidence and consumer spending, especially in the years 2002 and 2003. Mr. Speaker, this is positive performance, and the final

chapter of the Budget says it all. We believe in a balanced approach, over $500 million, which is more than in the last three years of office they were in, is being spent for health, education, children; over $200 million for tax reductions, money, over $288 million in three budgets for debt reduction, balanced investments in the future, balanced and sustain able tax reductions and debt reductions. This is a balanced government that governs for all Manitobans, not just for the brokers. Budget Tax Initiatives Mr. Jim Penner (Steinbach): Mr. Speaker, can you hear me without shouting?

A recent headline sums up the truth about this Government's so-called tax relief found in the Budget, and it reads: Tax relief, do not make me laugh. The gap between Manitoba families and our neighbours continues to widen. Can the Minister of Finance confirm, that according to his own Budget, middle-income families in Manitoba pay a full 38% more income tax than the same family in Ontario? Hon. Greg Selinger (Minister of Finance): Mr. Speaker, I hope the Member for Steinbach took a careful look at the Mani toba Advan tage.

The cost of living for a single person, lowest in the country; the cost of living for a single parent with one child at $30,000 income, second-lowest in the country; the cost of living for a single-earner family of $40,000 with a family of four, first in the country, the lowest in the country; the cost of living for a single-earner family of four at $60,000 income, third-lowest in the country; the cost of living for a two-earner family of four, $60,000 income, second-lowest in the country; and the cost of living for a family of five, $75,000, a two-earner family, second lowest in the country.

The cost of living advan tage in Manitoba is growing compared to our neighbours. Mr. Jim Penner: Mr. Speaker, can the minister confirm that middle-income Manitobans who in 1999 paid $253 less income tax as compared to Saskatchewan now pay $786 more income tax as compared to Saskatchewan, a difference of over a thousand bucks? Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, I think it is important to note progress when progress is being achieved. In the year 2000, the middle income earner family the member opposite refers to had the tenth lowest taxes in the country.

In the year 2001, they had the seventh lowest taxes in the country. In the year 2002, they have the sixth lowest. There has been steady progress every year in reducing taxes for families. At the same time we have not done what other provinces have done, which is to hike user fees, which is to increase health care premiums, which is to increase the cost of living for everybody. We have lowered taxes. We have kept the cost of living down and we have made

946 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 1, 2002 Manitoba one of the best places to live in this country. * (14:00) Mr. Jim Penner: Well, Mr. Speaker, if that is the case, can the Minister of Finance confirm that beginning with the Doer government's 2000 Budget, middle-income Manitobans have been saddled with the dubious distinction of highest taxed west of Quebec? Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, at the risk of repeating myself, taxes have gone down every year over 10.5 percent.

We brought in a family tax reduction package in our first Budget when we eliminated the net tax and the surtax, something the members opposite had 12 years to do. They never removed it. We brought in a family tax reduction which extends to families up to $80,000 total income and made it more affordable for families to raise children in this province. That is the Manitoba Advantage. Manitoba Hydro Profits-Debt Reduction Mr. John Loewen (Fort Whyte): Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Minister of Finance tabled the nine-month financial report of Manitoba Hydro covering the period to December 31, 2001.

This report contained no information on the Govern ment's intent to draw $150 million out of Manitoba Hydro to balance last year's deficit. I would ask the Minister of Finance to explain where he expects to get the money for Hydro to get the money to pay this $150-million dividend when in fact this report clearly shows that as of December 31, in spite of profits of $154 million, Manitoba Hydro had only $14 million in cash. Where are they going to get the rest? Hon. Greg Selinger (Minister of Finance): Mr.

Speaker, between the years 1997 and the year 2001, the forecasted net profits for Manitoba Hydro were $362 million. The actual was $734 million. The difference was $371 million. We are taking a portion of that to pay for health care, education and essential service for Manitobans, a practice that is followed in every other province. The Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Murray) indicated that the legislation was brought in in 1950. There were no exports in 1950. This side of the House built the export capacity of Manitoba Hydro for the advantage of all Manitobans. Mr.

Loewen: I would like the minister to simply answer the question. Will he just admit once and for all, will he finally admit to the people of Manitoba that, as a result of his Government's decision to raid Manitoba Hydro for $288 million, Manitoba Hydro is going to have to go out and borrow more money to make that transfer? He is just robbing Peter to pay Paul. Mr. Selinger: You know, Mr. Speaker, this is what we will admit to. We are the Government that built Manitoba Hydro. We are the Govern ment that reduced flooding in the North. The Member for Lakeside (Mr.

Enns) blamed the former government for flooding when in fact the former government significantly reduced the flooding. This Government is bringing First Nations peoples into a full partnership on hydro. The North will benefit, and all Manitobans will benefit from our development. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. I would ask the co operation of all honourable members. I have to be able to hear the question and I have to be able to hear the answer, because if there is a breach of the rule or departure from the practices of the House I have to be able to hear that.

So I ask the co-operation of all honourable members, please. Mr. Loewen: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appre ciate that. After that last response, I am inclined to ask the minister if he invented the Internet as well, but I will not. I would just like this minister to answer the people of Manitoba in a clear and concise way. His Government is raiding Mani toba for $288 million despite the fact they only have $14 million in cash. How much more debt is Manitoba Hydro going to have to incur as a result of his Government's decision to raid $288 million to cover their deficits? Mr.

Selinger: Since we have come into office, the debt-to-equity ratio is reduced every year that we have been here. It is at a record level in terms of financial solvency. The corporation has earned extraordinary revenues in the export market as a result of the far-sighted decisions of

May 1, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 947 former NDP governments to build this utility for export purposes. It will form a continuing and enduring part of the Mani toba Advan tage as we go forward. Oh, and on the Internet, we are going to try and make sure all Manitobans get access to it, not like you guys did. Fort Garry School Division Property Taxes Mrs. Joy Smith (Fort Garry): Mr. Speaker, two decisions made by the Doer government have seriously impacted on the taxpayers in Fort Garry.

Forced amalgamation will cost Fort Garry $500,000 in the year 2002, and exempting the University of Manitoba assessment caused a net shortfall of $525,000, yet the Premier (Mr. Doer) insists that taxpayers will see $33 less on their tax bill. Can this Premier guarantee Fort Garry residents that their tax bills will be going down, as he predicted the other day in this House? Hon. Drew Caldwell (Minister of Education, Training and Youth): I thank the member opposite for the question. Of course, this Government is very concerned about taxation levels in the province.

That is why we have implemented a 10% reduction in income tax over the last three budgets. In terms of the education support levy, members opposite had the opportunity for 12 years in office to begin the reduction on the education support levy. The property tax that all Manitobans pay did not do it. This Government is doing it. Mrs. Smith: Mr.

Speaker, if this Government is so interested in the tax situation in the province of Manitoba and the fact that Fort Garry is very hard hit with increased taxes, will this Premier tell the people of Fort Garry and guarantee the people of Fort Garry that he will provide an annual grant to the Fort Garry School Division to make sure that Fort Garry taxpayers are not so hard hit? Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Mr.

Speaker, I will guarantee that the minus 2, minus 2, 0, plus 2 just before an election, minus 2, minus 2 pattern-that was the pattern of the 1990s government, the former government-will not be the practice of our Government and has not been the practice of our Government. I will guarantee that the property tax credit that was clawed back by members opposite in the 1992-93 Budget will not be clawed back.

I will guarantee that our election promises to increase the property tax credit to $400 from $250 will be maintained in our Budget, and I will guarantee that we will continue to reduce the ESL on property and residences of Fort Garry, something members opposite had 12 years to do and neglected to do. Mrs. Smith: Will this Premier just simply guarantee Fort Garry residents that their property tax bill will not be unusually high this year as a result of the decisions of this Doer government? * (14:10) Mr. Doer: Mr.

Speaker, I hope the member opposite goes back and corrects the record and points out to all the constituents of Fort Garry that the tax increase on the education portion of householders in Fort Garry was 49 percent in the 1990s under their previous government. I will put our record against her record in Fort Garry any day of the week. Budget Impact on Small Business Mr.

Ron Schuler (Springfield): In this year's Budget, the plunder of $288 million from Mani toba Hydro to cover the Premier's spending addiction was announced; on top of that a 100% tax increase on various construction site labour, a 160% increase on dealer plates, a 67% increase on vehicle inspections. Does the minister expect Manitobans to support his budgets which attack Manitoba small business? Hon. Greg Selinger (Minister of Finance): Since we have come into office, we have reduced the small business taxation rate by 37. 5 percent.

In addition, we have increased the revenue covered by that reduced rate 5 percent, among the lowest in the country, from $200,000 to $300,000. In this Budget, we have set in place a program to increase that to $400,000, so the band of income covered will double from

948 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 1, 2002 $200,000 to $400,000, and the small business rate will be reduced 3 7.5 percent, something never accomplished ever in the history of the Government across the way. Mr. Schuler: I ask, Mr. Speaker: Why is this minister increasing user fees on chiropractic visits by 30 percent, increasing the Oath of Commissioner fees by 42 percent and a 167% increase for dealer permits? When will this tax, spend and loot nightmare end? Mr. Selinger: Mr.

Speaker, to set the record straight, the increase was from $2.50 a month to a market rate of $39 a month for dealer plates that were used. All we did was establish a market rate, something the members opposite support; market rates for market services. Taxes-Propane Gas Mr. Ron Schuler (Springfield): Then I ask the minister: Why the ultimate insult to injury? In his tax, spend and loot Budget, he increases taxes on propane for backyard family barbecues by 43 percent. Does he not know that Manitobans feel that the Government has no place in the family barbecues? Even Pierre Trudeau had more sense than that. Hon.

Greg Selinger (Minister of Finance): Mr. Speaker, this is a classic example of the member opposite- Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. May I remind all honourable members, when a Speaker rises all members should be seated, and the Speaker should be heard in silence. I would ask the co-operation of all honourable members, please. Mr. Selinger: What we have just heard from the member opposite is an example of puffing up his case with percentages. The overall rate for propane was blended together into one uniform rate.

The cost for a tank of propane for a barbecue went up 25 cents, but what the member opposite does not mention is that propane for motor vehicles has gone down dramatically, and those people who use propane in their motor vehicles will see a significant reduction. That will be something that will be positive for the environment. Winnipeg Casinos Occupancy Permits Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): My question, Mr.

Speaker, is to the Minister respon sible for Manitoba Lotteries, the minister who did not answer my question from yesterday as to whether the $145 million was the final total bill for the Club Regent and McPhillips Street Station casinos. Today I would like to table a copy of the expired interim building occupancy permits for these two casinos. I ask the minister to admit that neither of these casinos presently have valid building occupancy permits and are therefore operating outside of or above the normal framework of laws and by-laws in this province. Hon.

Diane McGifford (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Lotteries Corporation Act): I do not know whether the buildings have valid building occupancy, whatever else it was. I will look into it and advise the member as soon as possible. Mechanical Certification Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): I would like to ask my supplementary to the Minister responsible for the Manitoba Lotteries Corpora tion, Mr. Speaker: Why does the Manitoba Lotteries Corporation not have full mechanical certification for these two buildings, and what is the minister going to do about this situation? Hon.

Diane McGifford (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Lotteries Corporation Act): I thank the member for the question. I think it is the kind of detail that would have been more intelligently referred to the administration of Lotteries through me. Mr. Speaker, as I advised the member in my answer to the first question, this is the kind of detail that I do not have at my fingertips. However, I will be very pleased to contact

May 1, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 949 Lotteries on behalf of the member. I will let him know as soon as I have that information what the answers to his questions are. Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Speaker, this is a very serious matter. I ask the minister to admit that Crown corporations like the Manitoba Lotteries Corpo ration should be functioning as exemplary citizens. Do you not believe as a minister that they should be exemplary in the conduct of business and not operating in the grey or shady areas of the law? Ms. McGifford: Mr.

Speaker, my understanding is that the point of Question Period is to ask the minister questions and not for opinions. Regional Health Authorities Deficit Financing Mr. Glen Cummings (Ste. Rose): Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health. Hopefully he thinks it is an intelligent question. The Premier (Mr. Doer) indicated yesterday that he was very proud of increases in expenditures to the rural RHAs. I wonder if this Minister of Health, in dealing with this year's Budget, will be clawing back from the RHAs the deficits from previous years. * (14:20) Hon. Dave Chomiak (Minister of Health): Mr.

Speaker, I am very happy to report that the Winnipeg Regional Health Authority is the largest health authority in western Canada that has no deficit. I am also happy to report that the deficits for all the regions in Manitoba has declined from a high of $70 million when members opposite controlled the Budget to less than $20 million in the last year. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Cummings: Mr. Speaker, on a new question.

Well, the minister did everything except assure the people of Marquette and southwestern Manitoba that they will not have $2 million clawed back from this year's Budget because of the previous year deficit. Yes, or no? Mr. Chomiak: Mr. Speaker, members opposite seem to want to have it both ways. They say spend, spend, spend, and then they say there is a deficit; they say pick up the deficit. With respect to this particular issue, we have met with all of the regions and outlined for them the spending requirements that we can do under very difficult circumstances.

I think under the circumstances we have made significant im provements when one considers that we have met the increased needs, expanded resources, paid for additional significant increases to nurses, something members opposite demanded day after day after day: Pay the nurses more, pay the nurses more, pay the nurses more. We concluded an agreement in which the nurses, I think, are in a situation where they will be secure and very competitive across the country. Winnipeg Regional Health Authority Director of Public Affairs Mrs.

Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): The Minister of Health asks us where he can save administrative dollars. I would like to suggest that he could start with the elimination of the cushy job he created at the WRHA for his former political advisor, Terry Goertzen. Can the minister please confirm that Mr. Terry Goertzen, his political advisor, was appointed to the brand-new position of director, public affairs and government relations, without having to go through a competition? It was created for him and handed to him on a silver platter. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Hon.

Dave Chomiak (Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, as I understand it, the individual to whom the member refers who worked for the City of Winnipeg at a senior level, worked for the Department of Health-[interjection} You know, if the members want an answer, I wish the members would listen and stop. I

950 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 1, 2002 cannot even hear. Mr. Speaker, as I understand, that individual is working for the Winnipeg Regional Health- Mr. Speaker: Order. Mrs. Driedger: Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the mtmster if he could confirm that Mr. Goertzen's salary is in the range of $70,000 to $92,000? Mr. Chomiak: Mr. Speaker, I do not know what Mr. Goertzen's salary is at the Winnipeg Regional Health Authority.

I do not know what the salary is with respect to executive directors and vice-presidents and others around the hundreds and the literally thousands of positions across the province of Manitoba. All I know is that members opposite are having a good deal of difficulty lifting off issues, so they are attacking specific individuals. That clearly is their tactic in this Chamber. Mr. Speaker: Time for Oral Questions has expired. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS International Labour Day Mr. Ron Schuler (Springfield): I am pleased to announce I would like to once again commemorate May Day by putting a few comments on the record.

For the third straight year the Minister of Labour (Ms. Barrett) has failed to recognize this day and its importance, which truly is an unfortunate record for this minister. Today we celebrate International Labour Day, a day when the accomplishments and the achievements of hardworking individuals across the globe should be celebrated. We in this Chamber should do our very best to remember the hardworking people of Manitoba.

I understand the Minister of Labour will be introducing legislation today, as she has, that will provide compensation for firefighters if they have worked for the fire service for a specific period of time, allow for paid leave and provide compensation to a fallen firefighter's family. I would like to welcome the firefighters in the gallery today and thank them on behalf of all members for the tremendous service they provide the people of our province. I look forward to introduction of this legislation as it moves through by the minister and look forward to working with her and all members on this issue.

I should, however, remind this Government that they have shown that their legislative changes do not always have the best interests of the hardworking citizens and taxpayers of Manitoba at heart. The Joan by the Workers Compensation Board to the True North arena could potentially jeopardize the very compen sation the firefighters are looking for. Workers recognize that this Government has violated their right to a secret ballot and the democratic process in the workplace.

They recognize that this Government, through legislative change, condones picket line violence, and they recognize that their Budget, the Doer govern ment has made the ratepayers of Manitoba Hydro into direct taxpayers, a move that has negative implications for the employees of Manitoba Hydro and their bargaining units. Who stood up for them at the Cabinet table when this decision was made at the Cabinet table? It certainly was not the Minister of Labour. We know it was not the Minister of Hydro.

On behalf of all members on this side of the House, I would like to thartk all workers of Manitoba for their continuing contributions to the prosperity of this province. Ecole Christine-Lesperance Ms. Linda Asper (Riel): J'ai eu le plaisir de representer notre gouvemement Je 3 fevrier 2002 a l'ouverture officielle de l'ecole Christine Lesperance au sud de Saint-Vital. Plus de 500 personnes se sont reunies au gymnase de Ia nouvelle ecole pour assister a l'ouverture offici elle.

J'ai eu l'honneur de participer avec Yolande Dupuis, presidente de Ia Commission scolaire franco-manitobaine; Normand Boisvert, ancien directeur de l'ecole Lavallee; des parents, des eleves et des membres du comite de construction de J'ecole, a Ia ceremonie traditionnelle ou on coupe Je ruban. Christine Lesperance etait Ia premiere enseignante de Ia communaute de Saint-Vital.

May 1, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 951 Nee au Quebec, Soeur Lesperance a ete nommee en 1860 pour mettre sur pied une petite ecole a Saint-Vital ou elle a enseigne pendant neuf ans. Le but etait d'assurer !'importance et la valeur de la langue et de la culture franco-manitobaine. Plusieurs Soeurs Grises etaient presentes a l'ouverture officielle. J'aimerais prendre l'occa sion de feliciter Maurice Landry, directeur de l'ecole, Dolores Beaumont, directrice adjointe, ainsi que le personnel, les eleves et les parents.

L'ecole est le resultat de 10 ans de leur travail et planification et la realisation de leur reve. Les oeuvres de Christine Lesperance con tinueront dans cette nouvelle ecole. Les educa teurs et educatrices prepareront une autre generation pour la continuation de la langue et de la culture franco-manitobaine. Translation I had the pleasure of representing our govern ment last February 3, 2002, at the official open ing of Christine Lesperance School in south St. Vital. More than 500 people were assembled in the gymnasium of the new school to take

part in the opening ceremony. I had the honour of participating in the traditional ribbon-c utting ceremony with Yolande Dupuis, the chair of the Franco- Manitoban School Board; Normand Boisvert, the form er principal of Lavallee School; as well as paren ts, students and members of the school building committee. Christine Lesperance was the first teacher of the community of St. Vital. Born in Quebec, Sister Lesperance was appointed in 1860 to establish a small school in St. Vital where she taught for nine years.

The intent was to ensure the impor tance and the value of the Franco- Man itoban language and culture. Several Grey Nuns were present at the opening ceremony. I would like to take the opportunity to congratulate Maurice Landry, prin cipal of the school, Dolores Beaumont, vice-principal, and also the staff, the students and the parents. The school is the result of 10 years of work and planning and the realization of their dream. Christine Lesperance's work will continue in this new school. The educators will prepare another generation for the continuation of the Franco Manitoban language and culture.

Victoria General Hospital Foundation Mrs. Joy Smith (Fort Garry): Mr. Speaker, I rise today to congratulate the Victoria General Hospital Foundation on their successful ongoing efforts to raise money to support the expansion of the Victoria General Hospital. The Victoria General Hospital Foundation is well on its way to raising the $5.5 million needed to fund the expansion project that will improve patient care in many areas of their hospital, including critical care, day surgery and the expansion of the oncology unit. Already the foundation has gathered $1 million.

It is because of the Victoria Hospital Foundation's hard work that the provincial government has agreed to match the foundation's commitment of $5.5 million. I was happy to hear the Premier (Mr. Doer) acknowledge this morning that the emergency room at Victoria Hospital is cramped. This is something patients, staff and MLAs from the south end of the city have been telling him for some time now. I am pleased that he has agreed to partner with the Victoria Hospital Foundation to ensure this much-needed expansion becomes a reality.

This is not the first successful fundraising project by the Victoria General Hospital Foundation. Since 1997, the foundation has been pivotal in generating sufficient funds to improve front ER canopies, the creation of the ER triage desk, diagnostic centre renovations and, most recently, renovations to the speech and audiology facilities. I would also like to take this opportunity to commend all of the staff at the Victoria Hospital for the excellent job they do. Their commitment and dedication to patient care is outstanding.

I know they will all benefit immensely from the expansion of the emergency room, oncology unit, day surgery and critical care units. Congratulations to the Victoria General Hospital Foundation. * (14:30) School Capital Funding Program Mr. Jim Rondeau (Assiniboia): Good day, Mr. Speaker. I rise before the House today to speak

952 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 1, 2002 about an important capital funding announce ment for our public schools. As part of our Government's ongoing commitment to Mani toba's youth, we recently announced a school capital funding program of $45 million for the 2002-2003 school year. This Government recognizes the importance of safe, comfortable, healthy learning environments, and this funding will ensure that our children are taught well in well-maintained schools.

The 2002-2003 school's capital program will help maintain our existing school infrastructure and provide funds for exciting new capital projects. Funds from the program will also be dedicated to providing capital support for areas such as science labs, special needs and life skills facilities. A number of mechanical, roofing and structural improvements will be made to our schools to ensure students are safe and comfortable. This announcement illustrates our Government's commitment to the long-term needs of our public school system.

Since 2000, this Government has provided $203 million in capital funding to our public school system, a commitment to our teachers and students. For the first time in our province's history, education spending has exceeded $1 billion. I am pleased to add that this announcement will mean some important improvements for the schools in my constituency. There are currently seven tentative capital projects planned for the St. James-Assiniboia area, and of special interest to my constituents is a planned roof project and ventilator replacement at John Taylor School.

I would like to commend the Government on its commitment to the public school system. All Manitobans can agree that the children deserve a safe, healthy and comfortable learning environ ment in schools. It is the goal of this Government to ensure that we can provide our young students now and into the future a good, positive environment. Winnipeg Art Gallery Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): I would like today to congratulate Pat Bovey and the staff at the Winnipeg Art Gallery. This year is the 90th anniversary of the Winnipeg Art Gallery, and last night was the opening of several exhibitions.

Notable was an exhibition of works by William Hind called Hinds ight, a Prairie Artist. This is the first time that these works have been collectively assembled. Quite frankly, Mr. Speaker, it is a stunning collection which all Manitobans should visit and learn more about their history and the art history of this province. I would also like to congratulate the Manitoba Society of Artists on their 1 OOth anniversary.

To celebrate this lO Oth anniversary, there was last night the opening of an exhibition at the Winnipeg Art Gallery of works displaying the achievements of members of the Manitoba Society of Artists over many, many years. It is an impressive exhibition and one, again, that members of the Legislature should visit. There were as well works by Grace Nickel, a gallery of short stories, and a western video. All these are quite an accomplishment. To have this opening and to showcase for Manitobans Manitoban art and Manitoban accomplishments is I think quite a feat. So, Mr.

Speaker, I would today pay a big compliment to Pat Bovey, the Winnipeg Art Gallery staff, and others who are involved in putting on these exhibitions and congratulate them for their fine support of Manitoba art and Manitoba achievements. ORDERS OF THE DAY GOVERNMENT BUSINESS ADJOURNED DEBATE (Eighth Day of Debate) Mr. Speaker: To resume debate on the proposed motion of the honourable Minister of Finance (Mr. Selinger) that this House approve in general the budgetary policy of the Government and the proposed motion of the Leader of the Official Opposition (Mr.

Murray) in amendment thereto, standing in the name of the honourable Member for Portage Ia Prairie, who has 30 minutes remaining. Mr. David Faurschou (Portage Ia Prairie): Mr. Speaker, I was concluding my remarks yesterday complimenting the Minister of Trans portation (Mr. Ashton) and the Minister of

May 1, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 953 Agriculture (Ms. Wowchuk) for their recent visits to Portage Ia Prairie. I hope that perhaps some of the other ministers could take heed and acknowledge their example and also attend to Portage, because I believe Portage Ia Prairie is indeed a great place in which to invest and to live and raise a family. I have listened very intently to the debate over the last number of days in regard to the Budget as presented on the 22nd of this month to this House.

I have listened with great interest to members of the Government side of the House as to how they have stated the importance of Manitoba Hydro to the province of Manitoba. I must compliment them on those statements. Manitoba Hydro is indeed an advantage that we have in this province. It is a well-run, well managed, integrated company that I think all of us should be proud of, but there is a point that I would like to make that other members of the House have stated, that Manitoba Hydro be maintained as a Crown corporation and owned by the people of Manitoba.

This particular Budget, if adopted, actually sells off a portion of our equity in Manitoba Hydro, because Manitoba Hydro will have to borrow in order to provide the resources that this Budget is requesting of it. Mr. Conrad Santos, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair I thought it would have to be a blue moon before I would agree with the member from the Interlake. What I do agree with the member from the Interlake is that we do not want to sell Manitoba Hydro, and this particular Budget requests that we sell part of our equity in Manitoba Hydro.

It is beyond comprehension that members of the Government side of the House have stamped their feet, banged their fists on the table to emphasize the importance to maintain ownership in Manitoba Hydro, yet they are now contemplating supporting this Budget which requires us to give up an equity portion in Manitoba Hydro.

The word in the Webster's dictionary for making a statement and doing contrary to that statement is "hypocrisy." The First Minister used that word today, and now the members of the Government side of the House will in fact have to acknowledge that they are going to be making use of that particular term when others are going to be referring to them because they are going to say one thing and do something quite the opposite. * (14:40) Mark my words, when the financial statements come in for Manitoba Hydro, when this particular cash draw is taken, the equity in that Crown corporation by the people of Manitoba will be reduced.

The member from Flin Flon, the member from Dauphin are going to have to go back to their constituents and say that they are proud of supporting a government that sold off Manitoba Hydro, contrary to their election. In any event, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I have made my comments, and I will be supporting the Leader of the Opposition's motion. I hope all members of this House will recognize that this Budget is indeed contrary to the best interests of Manitobans. Hon.

Drew Caldwell (Minister of Education, Training and Youth): It is indeed a privilege to rise on behalf of the citizens of Brandon East to put a few words on the record regarding the 2002 Manitoba Budget. The 2002 Manitoba Budget continues the Doer government's record of investing in Brandon, in supporting Brandon in all endeavours that seek to improve that community. Indeed, Mr. Deputy Speaker, the 2002 Budget extends beyond Brandon in terms of its positive impact to embrace all of western Manitoba, indeed, all of Manitoba. Mr.

Deputy Speaker, in the nearly three years that this Government has been in office, successive budgets have invested over $260 million in Brandon. Major Brandon initiatives include the long, long deferred construction of the Brandon Regional Health Centre. As a city councillor in Brandon, I sat through most of the '90s along with most of the citizens in Brandon, in being repeatedly disappointed by members opposite when they were in government.

We had successive announcements, announcing the construction of the Brandon Regional Health Centre, successive announcements year after year announcing the construction of the Brandon

954 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 1, 2002 Regional Health Centre. It took a change in govenunent to finally have the construction of that long-promised and many times deferred project. It took a change in govenunent to see that project come to fruition. In no small way were the repeated disappointments visited upon people of Brandon by members opposite when they were in govenunent. In no small way were those repeated disappointments visited upon Brandon ites, the cause for two Cabinet ministers representing Brandon in this Doer govenunent.

I expect that as we look forward to elections in the years to come, the two Brandon Cabinet ministers of this Govenunent, two Brandon MLAs that are sitting on the Govenunent side, we will be joined by other MLAs from western Manitoba as successive elections unfold, because we have now a record to compare with the record of members opposite. The record of the Doer govenunent is one of building Brandon, building western Manitoba. The record of the members opposite is one of disappointing Brandon and disappointing western Manitoba year after year after year. So, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, as we stand in the House today and discuss the 2002 Budget in Brandon, in Brandon East, my home constituency, we are seeing the construction of the Brandon Regional Health Centre, something that was, as I said, long promised year after year after year and constantly cancelled by members opposite. In 1999, when this Doer government came to office, we made a commitment that we would build the Brandon Regional Health Centre. Today that commitment is coming true as are all the commitments that this Government made on seeking election in 1999.

So, in addition to the $60-million con struction of the Brandon Regional Health Centre, in addition to the $60-million redevelopment of the Brandon Regional Health Centre in Brandon East, we are also nearing the concluding stages of the $180-million conversion of the Brandon Generating Station from coal to natural gas, a $180-million project to respond to new tech nology and public concerns for a cleaner environment in our province. Mr. Deputy Speaker, we in western Manitoba have experienced tens of millions of dollars of road construction in successive budgets tabled by the honourable Minister of Finance (Mr.

Selinger) and Member for St. Boniface. Brandon University and Assiniboine Community College are experiencing tre mendous growth in terms of programs and in terms of infrastructure. I will be in Brandon I think it is next week to tum the sod for the new health services building expansion at Brandon University. We have many, many outstanding projects taking place in Brandon, unprecedented levels of investment in the city of Brandon, unprece dented levels of investment in rural Manitoba, in rural and western Manitoba, to touch on a few of those projects.

Yesterday I was privileged to be able to make my third capital announcement as Minister of Education, Training and Youth of 45 million new dollars put into the public school system to rebuild capital infrastructure that went 12 years without any adequate level of support. Mr. Deputy Speaker, 56 percent of that amount announced yesterday is going to rural Manitoba to expand and to build infrastructure in rural schools throughout our province. Last session, Mr. Deputy Speaker, we also implemented under legislation hydro rate equalization so that rural Manitobans- An Honourable Member: And northern Manitobans. Mr.

Caldwell: -and northern Manitobans, as my colleague from Flin Flon adds, rural Manitobans, northern Manitobans pay the same rates as urban Manitobans. A Manitoban is a Manitoban is a Manitoban wherever he or she lives in this province. Twelve years members opposite had an opportunity to make policy that would benefit rural Manitobans in terms of hydro rates. Hydro rate equalization again took a change in govenunent to provide rural Manitobans with something that they should have been the beneficiaries of since day one. Mr. Deputy Speaker, my colleague the Minister of Agriculture and Food (Ms.

Wowchuk), announced the Bridging Generations program approximately a month ago that would

May 1, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 955 facilitate farm land transfers between generations to assist family farms in continuing to be a fabric of our rural communities and, indeed, a fabric of our province as a whole. Two weeks ago, Mr. Deputy Speaker, my colleague the minister of highways and transportation made a $600-million road renewal announcement. Again, rural Manitoba, western Manitoba stand to be the greatest beneficiary of a program that provides for road development in our province. The highways in this province are long needing government attention and a government initiative of this nature.

Again members opposite for 12 years had the opportunity to put forward programs like the road renewal, like hydro rate equalization, like the Bridging Generations farmland transfer program that this Government has undertaken to assist and promote and further develop rural Manitoba in a sustainable, proactive, aggressive, and dynamic way. * (14:50) All Manitobans are benefiting from the 10% reduction in the education property tax that the Province administers, the ESL program.

This is a first in Manitoba's history, that we are having a government take an initiative to reduce the education property tax level in this province, again our record contrasting to members oppo site when they were in government, with a proactive engagement to provide real tax relief to property taxpayers across our province. That 10% reduction announcement that was made in March is further bolstered in the Budget speech by our commitment to have a five-year elimination, a total elimination, of the property tax collected by the provincial government for our public school system.

Again, we have a record that stands in stark contrast to members opposite, who chose through 12 years not to make any tax cuts, not to address the property tax issue, rather to have a 45% explosion in property taxes at the local level as a consequence of inaction on the property tax reduction front and the constant downloading of responsibility from the provincial government to the local property taxpayer, which was a consequence of the underfunding of the public school system that took place in this province throughout the 1990s. I know that my colleague from Lord Roberts, the Minister of Advanced Education (Ms.

McGifford), will be talking some more on the good news about public and post-secondary education that stems from this Government's actions, not only in this budget year, but in the two years previous. Mr. Deputy Speaker, yesterday I had the honour of making my third schools capital announcement. I was pleased to announce a $45- million capital budget this year for the public schools in our province. That follows on last year's $45-million capital announcement and the year previous, our first year in office, $51 million to schools capital support, the largest level of support in the province's history.

At these unprecedented levels of investment, it will still take us years to begin to address the damage done by the absence of support for the public school system by members opposite when they were in office; on capital in our public school system, historic levels of investment contrasted with historic levels of withdrawal and retreat from the public school system by members opposite; on operating, guarantees that we will provide funding support at the level of economic growth, at least the level of economic growth, as opposed to members' opposite record of constantly reducing levels of operating support, minus 2, minus 2.3, minus 1, year after year after year reductions in support for operating; our record, their record, most telling of all perhaps the record on tax relief.

We have a government that is actively engaged in tax relief, relief for property taxes, increases to the property tax credit year after year, in stark contrast to members opposite who talk a lot about tax relief, but in 12 years of office did nothing to relieve taxation levels for the people of the province of Manitoba. This Government is addressing tax relief for Manitobans; income tax relief, small business tax relief, property tax relief, increases in the property tax credit.

Our record is very clear and stands in stark contrast to the members opposite and the record that members opposite had when they were in office of no tax relief. A good talk but no action. No levels of support for operating to the public school system that were anywhere

956 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 1, 2002 near adequate. In fact,

an act of retreat from operating support. Certainly, the quarter billion dollar infrastructure deficit in our public school system speaks volumes about the records of the members opposite. So, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Budget 2002 from the perspective of Brandon, from the perspective of western Manitoba, is a tremendous success. It is a budget that addresses the very real needs of rural Manitobans. It addresses the very real needs of Brandonites, and it addresses the very real needs of Manitobans wherever they reside in this great province of ours.

We are now a government that has a record of meaningful tax relief, meaningful investment in our public education system, meaningful investment in our health care system, meaningful investment in housing in our province, meaningful investment for children in our province, meaningful invest ment for seniors, and meaningful tax relief, something that was sorely lacking in this province for 12 long years. Mr. Edward Helwer (Gimli): I certainly appreciate the opportunity that I will have a few minutes to say a few words about this Budget.

Before I do that I want to welcome our newest member to our caucus, the Member for Lac du Bonnet (Mr. Hawranik). I am really pleased that he defeated the NDP in that by-election, and we have an excellent member here from Lac du Bonnet. Just a few things also that I am pleased with and that is one that finally this Government is going to carry through with a promise that the former Minister of Health, the Honourable Eric Stefanson, and I made back in the beginning of 1999 to renew and rebuild the Gimli Hospital.

I am pleased that this Government is going to carry through on that because it is a very much needed project. The people of Gimli have already raised their portion of the project, and I am really pleased that this one will finally go ahead. Something that the Member for Interlake (Mr. Nevakshonoff) the other day in his speech and also he passed about that there would be big crocodile tears rolling down my cheeks because they are finally going to build this hospital and also the school at Gimli. We are getting a new school that the Public Schools Finance Board actually approved prior to 1999.

Finally, we are getting that school built this year. An Honourable Member: It is amazing what happens when you put money into the Budget, is it not? Mr. Helwer: That is right. That is the early and the middle years school at Gimli, and I am really pleased to see that. Also, last year we opened a new school at Winnipeg Beach that was built under the Filmon government, and we are glad to see that finally open. Also, there is a new addition that is going to be built at Winnipeg Beach. That is also to replace an aging building there, which is a great project.

I am really pleased that these things are going to go ahead. Sure, I like these things in the Budget, but the rest of the Budget is setting this province back at least 10 years, Mr. Deputy Speaker, at least I 0 years, because of their extra charges that they are passing on to people in Manitoba such as the Pharmacare fees, the increase in the motor carrier licences, motor carrier fees, Pharmacare deductible, increase in the provincial sales tax on building materials and building plumbing materials. Also, they are doing away completely with the long-standing CareerStart.

They are deci mating that program, and that was an excellent program that really worked well in rural Manitoba, because this gives communities an opportunity to hire some of the university students and the high school students and give them summer jobs. That was a program that really worked very well. Unfortunately, the NDP think it is no good, and they are going to scrap the process. What else are they doing? There was not anything said about agriculture in this Budget. Not one word did he mention about agriculture, nothing.

Last year, because of the heavy rains, end of July, early August, some of our farmers went through the most difficult times and had the poorest crop in the Interlake that we have ever experienced for years. Crop insurance did not pay for anything. Farmers were flooded out. What do we get? Nothing. What does this Government do? They want to spend $880,000

May 1, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 957 fighting mosquitoes. When it is minus five at night, they want to larvicide for mosquitoes. That is a waste of money, a perfect waste of money. It is not going to work at all. {intetjection ] No, I do not like the Budget. The Budget is no good. {interjection] That is right. [interjection] The Member for Elmwood (Mr. Maloway) wants the floor. If he wants to speak, he will get his tum probably or maybe he did already. {interjection] He had his tum. Okay.

I do not have too much time, so I want to mention a few other things that really this Government has to do for us in the Interlake area, for us in the Gimli constituency, and one of them is the damage that they are doing to us with the flooding, with the expansion of the floodway. Now the Red River is silted in so bad and needs dredging so bad that the fish cannot even get up the Red River in order to spawn, never mind the shipping. We need that Red River dredged so bad because the shipping from Selkirk has to carry on. {interjection] That is right. This Minister of Conservation (Mr.

Lathlin) said last year he is going to work on behalf of Manitobans to get the federal govern ment to try to dredge this river, continue to dredge it, nothing happened. Another year has gone by, nothing has happened. How are we going to ship freight out to Lake Winnipeg? How are we going to get from the river, from the shipping docks of Selkirk into the lake? Dredging is one of the most important things for flood protection and also for the shipping in the Lake Winnipeg area. * (15 :00) Another problem that causes the flooding and will have to be looked at is managing the ice again.

There again, back when we were the Government, when we drilled those holes in the ice to get it to break up, we think that worked very well. It provided a little employment for some of the fishermen, even drilling the holes in the ice, and it worked fine. It did the job, so I think it is very important that our Department of Conservation look at all these things to be able to manage the ice so that we can limit the flooding that takes place along the Red River every year because of the ice jams.

Something else that has to be done is manage the locks, the gates to the Floodway and not open them until such time as the ice has cleared out of the Red River so that we do not have the flooding. This Government talked about their lack of revenue and the fact that the federal government has not given them money for health. Well, that is probably right. The federal government has a responsibility to fund health in a better matter. But this Government has received over the last three years over a billion dollars in extra taxes and extra payments from the federal govern ment.

This year alone the federal transfers are going to have an increase of 11.9 percent. And what are they doing with that money? Squandering it. They are not helping farmers, they are not putting it into the health care system, and they are not helping education. That is another matter. They say they are going to put $10 million in the ESL. Well, this does not help much, because the school divisions have increased the special levy. The assessment has gone up 8 to 10 percent in each area. So that is going to increase the taxes again for those people in rural areas and also in Winnipeg.

So even by putting an extra $10 million into the ESL, that it is not going to stop property taxes and school taxes from increasing. So we have to do more to be able to help the property owners with the school taxes and also with their property taxes. This Government also talked about their lack of enough money. Well, what has happened to the corporate tax? Why are corporations not making money? First of all, we are not competitive. They have increased the minimum wage. They have increased all the costs to businesses, that cost businesses to do business.

How can they make enough money in order to pay the salaries and still expand and still pay income tax? The companies in Manitoba have not been able to make any money because of the extra costs that they have had to have been absorbed by this Government. That is really a two-edged sword. It has caused a problem and it has restricted employment. Companies that if they cannot make any money, cannot expand and grow, they cannot employ more people. So it works both ways.

958 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 1, 2002 I just want to mention on thing about the harness racing. That is the fact that by eliminating the subsidy to harness racing, they are eliminating 500 jobs in rural Manitoba, just taking 500 jobs away from rural Manitoba. That is a crime. Here was the harness racing trying to promote Manitoba, increase tourism, help tourism, help some of the local people with horses. And what happens? This Government pulls the rug right from underneath them, just pulled the rug right out, and there they go. I realize that my time is limited, but I just want to mention one thing.

That is Manitoba Hydro and what they are doing to Manitobans by taking the Manitoba Hydro money and putting it and balancing their last year's Budget. That is what they are doing. They are taking the money and balancing last year's Budget and also want to balance this year's Budget on the backs of the customers of Manitoba Hydro. What is going to happen to the big users like Simplot, the Manitoba Rolling Mills in Selkirk, the old Seagram plant in Gimli that is called now called the Guinness plant?

These plants ex panded and were to grow in Manitoba because the hydro rates were going to be either held, or frozen, or lowered, because they were going to be able to lower the debt on Hydro and, therefore, rates should go down. Well, what has happened now? This Government is going to take the profits of Manitoba Hydro and squander it, squander it to balance their Budget. How are companies such as Simplot, Manitoba Rolling Mills, Guinness, the big users in Manitoba, how are they going to exist and grow?

One of the reasons these people came to Manitoba originally was because of the competitive rates that we have in Manitoba Hydro and the potential for reduced rates. So those are just some examples that I have of the damage that this Budget is going to do to Manitobans. With that, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I will close off my remarks and hopefully some of my other colleagues will have time to make a few remarks on the Budget. Thank you. Hon. Jean Friesen (Minister of Inter governmental Affairs): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I am very pleased to have a few moments to speak on the Budget.

It is a budget that I am very pleased to support. I think it is one that offers fairness, balance and progress to many parts of Manitoba and to all walks of life in Manitoba. I think it is one that our Minister of Finance (Mr. Selinger) and Government are to be congratu lated on. Before I start, I would like to welcome the new Member for Lac du Bonnet (Mr. Hawranik). I would like to welcome also the pages back after the winter break, and of course also to thank on our behalf the Speaker, the staff of the building and the table officers of this Legislature who will be part of our lives for the next few months.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, this is a budget which comes I think on the heels of other budgets of this Government, and I think it follows in very much the same vein. It is one that takes a fair and balanced approach toward the economy of this province and to the social issues of this province that are facing us after 12 years of Tory government. I think the legacy of that government is one that will be felt for a long time. It is not just in the breaking of promises in the sale of the Manitoba Telephone System that is made reference to so frequently in this House, although that is a significant point.

It is also I think that they were at the tail end, and they were part of an international approach to government held by right-wing governments around the world. They were governments which were not really interested in governing. They were governments which did not see government as a form of ensuring equality amongst citizens. They were governments, it seems to me-and MTS is a very good example of that-which did not keep their promises and which appeared in fact to hide from citizens their very intentions.

They would talk about referendums on the one hand but the very largest referendum of all which is an election, this was a government, the former government, the Filmon government, which certainly hid its intentions from the electorate. Yet, on the other side of their mouth, they want to talk about referendums and public participation. So there was a kind of deceit, I

May 1, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 959 believe, and it was one which I think has given politicians and government-and they are not, of course, the only practitioners of that type of dissimulation-but it has given governments and politicians a very poor reputation.

I do not suppose any of us like coming to work and seeing headlines about polls and the distrust for politicians, but I think there is a large measure of blame to bear on politicians and governments who have hidden their true intent from citizens and who have governed with particular interests in mind and who have governed I think on the basis that government, in itself, is a bad thing and that in fact public services are always and inevitably and inherently inferior to the private sector.

I think there are clear differences of intent and practice between the previous government and ourselves on all of those issues. * (15: 10) I think our pride in public services, our recognition that the public service, whether it is in health care or in education, is one of the major issues by which government has to bring equality to citizens, whether it is in regions, or whether it is across social classes. That is an important area of distinction between us and every other right-wing government such as was represented by the previous administration.

We also believe that government matters, that it is a powerful instrument for good, and that is, again, another area, I think, that sets us apart from the previous government. They did not believe in government, and they governed in that manner.

We are also a government which has set very great store by the keeping of our promises, and we made a very limited number of promises during the election, because I think one of the challenges for all governments in this era that has succeeded the Thatcher and the Reagan and the Filmon governments of the last decade, one of the challenges for all governments is to retain the confidence of citizens in politics, in matters of state, in government and good government, and in political trustworthiness. So we made very few promises, and we are, step by step, Mr. Deputy Speaker, keeping those promises. Mr.

Deputy Speaker, I have spoken in this House before about such matters, and they are ones that I hold very dear.

I come from a political and a family tradition where govern ment does matter, where government has made a huge impact and has had enormous implications for housing, for health and education, for millions of people, not just for my family, but my own family has certainly had a very different kind of life because of the actions of government in extending school-leaving age, in enabling education for people, in fact, both of my parents, from very poor families, who would not otherwise have had an opportunity except for the very specific actions of government, nor would they have had the kind of housing or indeed the kind of nutrition that was enjoyed by the majority if it had not been for the actions of government.

I was struck by the response that I saw on the other side of the House to the Minister of Family Services' (Mr. Sale) announcement about milk and about the provision of milk and about the provision of long-lasting milk for more remote communities and the efforts, in fact, very successful efforts, that he has to bring forward a program of that. It was met, I might say, with a little bit of derision on the other side. They were decrying his efforts in that area. In fact, Mr. Deputy Speaker, it did speak very clearly to a very different kind of approach that the previous government had had.

It was the Government, I believe, which did take away the mother's allowance for milk, that when they went into the welfare rates and started cutting them, they actually focussed on that, taking away the milk allowances. So what could be a more direct contrast than that in the use of government and the ability of government to make a difference? Of course, it put me in mind historically, not just of my own situation, but of the kind of policies that are represented by governments such as we saw in the previous decade.

I always like to say that I grew up on national health, milk and orange juice, and everybody of my generation did. If you were born in the 1940s, that is what happened, and milk was delivered to schools so that the kind of nutritional situation of the general population that we had seen in the

960 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 1, 2002 1930s and '40s in Britain was changed. It was changed during a very difficult period of war time and in the period of rationing that followed that. Every child, because there was a Labour government which made this decision, received a pint of milk a day. It made a huge difference to everybody's nutrition. We also received free orange juice. Children who had never seen an orange, and I actually remember the first orange I ever saw.

I was about six or seven years old before I saw an orange, but, before that, we had several years of orange juice that was made especially for children that was delivered to parents. Children drank it, and it was the best and most, I think, perhaps, healthiest generation that there has been. Nutrition does matter, and that is exactly what our Healthy Child policy is saying. That is exactly what the Minister of Family Services is saying, and government does matter because it can make things more equal in that sense. So I would like to draw a contrast between Margaret Thatcher, for example, who took away that milk.

Margaret Thatcher, when she was minister of education, made a particular effort to withdraw that milk supply for children, just as the previous government here made a particular effort to look at the withdrawal of a milk allowance for mothers who were in the deepest of poverty. I suppose one of the pleasures of being in the Legislature is the ability to meet so many people, not just from Manitoba but from elsewhere as well. I remember in opposition meeting with the High Commissioner for Barbados.

The High Commissioner had been the minister of education at one point, and one of the questions that I put to him was: Well, what did you do as minister of education? Can you point to any two or three elements that made a difference for Barbados? The one thing he talked about was not curriculum, it was not school funding. It was about nutrition. He said: If I had to single out one thing which made the biggest impact on the people of Barbados, it was the nutrition program that we put in in the late '40s and early '50s. We created a new generation of Barbadian children, healthy and well nourished.

That made all the difference, not just for the kind of economy that Barbados is able to have today, a very well educated population and one that has certainly benefited by those, and one which had much greater access equally to those kinds of benefits. So, Mr. Deputy Speaker, for a number of reasons I do not share obviously the cynicism about government, nor indeed the cynicism about politicians, and in that I include my colleagues on the other side of this House. I do think many of those polls often do not carry through to the individual MLA.

They are ones where I think all of our people in this Legislature are generally respected by their constituents, but there has been for a variety of reasons that I have suggested an attempt to limit the role of government, to limit the confidence that citizens have in their governments. So, Mr. Deputy Speaker, to speak to this Budget in particular, I have already indicated that I think some of the priorities that we have established in health care and in family life are ones that I think are shared by many Manitobans.

We have established priorities in health care and education, in tax cuts and in debt reduction, water treatment, economic develop ment, mineral exploration, all of those which I think have been well received across Manitoba. I have had the opportunity to speak to people in my constituency. I have had the opportunity to speak to many people at Rural Forum in the last few days, as I am sure many members of the Legislature did, as well as to speak to people outside of my constituency in the city. What I am hearing is a general sense that you are on the right path, that this is the way to go.

There is, I think, a sense across Manitoba of a much calmer public debate. We are not seeing, day after day, demonstrations inside and outside this Legislature. We are not seeing the very great disruptions that there have been in education and in other areas that we saw in the decade of the previous government. Now clearly I am comparing a longer time period to a shorter time period and I recognize that. But, nevertheless, there is a sense of a different kind of public

May 1, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 961 debate and that there is a mood in Manitoba which has changed. * (15 :20) Mr. Speaker in the Chair I would like to suggest, Mr. Speaker, that it is, I think, many of the policies, and I do not want to attribute it all to government. There are other things which I think are changing. I think September 11 had something to do with it.

I think there are always, as in Manitoba, issues of the weather that affect people's moods, but I do believe that people are saying that this is a good Budget, that the way in which we have dealt with the public interest that Hydro represents is appropriate, and that we have our priorities and our principles in the right place. Well, in fact, I was out in Arthur-Virden a couple of weeks ago.

Certainly, somebody there was talking about the settlement with the nurses, they were talking about the way in which we have reintroduced new nursing programs, and they were looking forward to the benefits of that for rural Manitoba. So I think in parts of Manitoba where you would not necessarily expect support for the New Democratic government, they are seeing that there is a difference. I was able to talk to them about the way in which we are also looking to the future for the provision of rural doctors, the increased number of spaces that we have created at the University of Manitoba for rural doctors.

We looked also at the number of rural ambulances that we have established, I think which certainly exceeded by a great many the changes and the improvements in the rural ambulance service that the previous government was able to make. A previous speaker on our side has spoken about the Brandon Hospital and on the accom plishments that we have been able to put in place there. So I think just in the health field alone that we have a number of ways in which we have made improvements.

It is important I think to look at the way in which we are fulfilling the promises that we have made, because I think that these are the ways in which politicians are judged. As I said, we have been very careful to ensure that we made promises that we felt could be kept. Whether it is in health care, whether it is in education, whether it is in tax cuts, whether it is in the dealing with public corporations such as Manitoba Hydro, Mr. Speaker, I believe that the five promises, the five commitments that we made during the election, we are keeping those, and people see us as keeping them.

That, I think, is equally important. We are governing, I believe, as though government matters, that the kind of provisions that government <:an make for equality, whether it is for ambulance services, whether it is for the provision of nursing care across the province or whether it is for the education funds which we promised that we would fund at the rate of growth in the provincial economy and which we have continued to do budget after budget after budget, we are seen as keeping our promises. I submit, Mr. Speaker, that that is good for all politicians in this Legislature.

That is a very important approach to take to ensure that the confidence of citizens in government is rebuilt. I would suggest that one area in which there is a striking difference between this Government and this Budget and the previous government is in the area of post-secondary education. This is one fundamental area I think that any modem economy, any modem society must look at, must come to grips with if they are to be seen as progressive and if they are seen to be able to enter into the new global economy and if they are seen to be offering equal and improving opportunities to their young people.

Each of those is important to this Government and this province. What we have done in education is in stark contrast to the record of the previous govern ment. Under the previous government, fees increased at universities and colleges by 169 percent. At the same time, and there is some link, I will not say it is the only link, but there is some link, the number of students declined. One or two of the institutions, they declined considerably. No province, no community or society of a million people can enter into a global economy with a declining enrolment in post-secondary education. It made no sense.

In fact, it I think created great astonishment when the previous government could talk out of one

962 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May I, 2002 side of their mouth about the Celtic tiger and about the Asian tiger and argue that the kinds of changes that they were making in Manitoba would lead to the kinds of opportunities that were being opened for young people in Ireland or in India. The two simply did not match. You cannot have increasing enrolment fees, you cannot have declining enrolment and assume that you are going to have an economy that will match those that you so want to emulate in Ireland or in India. Mr.

Speaker, what the previous govern ment had was a low-skill and a low-wage economy and all of their programs, whether it was in post-secondary education or whether it was in their WORKFORCE 2000, seemed to me to, in fact, sustain that vision of a low-wage, low-skill economy. We have taken a very different approach, and we have followed it through, whether it is in the growth of the capital programs for the University of Manitoba, for the University of Winnipeg, for St.

Boniface College which will be, I believe, having expansions in its student building for the very first time, something which I believe they had knocked on the door of the previous government for every year and found no response. The $50 million that we have put forward for the rebuilding of the University of Manitoba to be matched by the private sector is a program which has exceeded all expectations. What people needed was encouragement. They needed incentive. They needed a government which believed in post-secondary education, and the previous government clearly did not see it as a priority.

So, whether it is in capital, whether it is in fees, whether it is in the expansion of the number of places, which with our expansion of Red River College and the expansion at Assiniboine College and at Brandon University, we are on the way to achieving some very significant targets. So I believe, Mr. Speaker, there is a clear contrast between the previous government and this Budget and this Govern ment, and it is one, I think, which offers hope and bodes well for young Manitobans.

I think anyone who looks at the labour legislation which was introduced today will also be very aware of the differences between the previous government and this Government. I do know that the requests that were made by firefighters and others of the previous govern ment were listened to, but no action was taken. Why was that, year after year? Twelve years, was it? Twelve years of listening to those requests and ignoring them. Mr.

Speaker, it seems to me that in health and safety issues, whether it is the firefighters or whether it is young workers, that there will be a difference between the previous government and this Government. It is a difference which will count not just in the lives of families but in the lives of communities, particularly as we look at the difficulties that have been faced in a number of our northern communities in that area.

In my own portfolio, I would like the opportunity to speak for a little bit about Neighbourhoods Alive! and about the way in which we have set about a priority of rebuilding the inner city and the downtown area of Winnipeg. The deterioration of Winnipeg did not take place overnight. It did not take place even between 1990 and '95. But somewhere in the last decade, in the last 12 years, that deterioration did take place. An Honourable Member: Not true. Ms.

Friesen: Well, the former Minister of Agriculture wants to say not true. [interjection] I do not know how the former Minister of Agriculture can explain the presence of a thousand boarded-up houses, a thousand boarded-up houses in a city the scale of Winnipeg when we came into government. I do not know how he can explain that. I do not know how he can explain the deterioration that we see and saw on every street in the inner city of Winnipeg. Whether it was housing, whether it was in the infrastructure, they turned a blind eye, Mr. Speaker. They put their blinkers on as they drove down Portage A venue.

They did not want to see. I used to get up in this House week after week and ask about the inner city and ask about the Misericordia Hospital and ask about the education programs that they were cutting in the inner city, and they simply put their blinders on.

May 1, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 963 That is what we faced when we came into government. We faced very, very serious issues in the inner city. If the previous government wants to think that it only affects urban people, that is not the case.

One of my responsibilities as Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs is in fact to say, not only does rural Manitoba and the number of people it takes to get food on your plate, not only does that have to be said, but also it has to be said that the state of the inner city of Winnipeg, whether it is the communities or whether it is the commercial areas of downtown Winnipeg, those have to be healthy for Manitoba to thrive.

That is the case that I make right across Manitoba, just as I do when I am in the city of Winnipeg and say over and over again: Remember how significant it is to you, the trade and the connections between rural Manitoba and the city of Winnipeg. We did not hear that for 12 years, Mr. Speaker. What we heard was a very divisive message, a message about perimeteritis, a message which in fact pitted rural Manitoba against the city of Winnipeg, and that is not our message.

Our message is one that brings hope to young people and which, in fact, wants to ensure that the benefits, whether it is in education, whether it is in hydro rates, whether it is in the proposals for ethanol, that those, in fact, are beneficial to all Manitobans. There is one million of us. We are a very small community in a global economy, and we must bring together all the strengths that we have to ensure that Manitoba becomes a successful community in this new economic world. So, Mr. Speaker, we did come to govern ment with over 800 houses boarded up.

We have begun to make inroads on some of those through a variety of housing programs, whether they are support for training programs, whether it is support for some of the non-profit and private sector housing programs, whether it is working with Aboriginal organizations and, most particularly, working with and developing community planning. In the five areas that we have developed in the city of Winnipeg plus Brandon plus Thompson, we, I think, are beginning to make, block by block, some very significant changes in parts of the inner city.

Again, the deterioration in some parts has been so significant that this is not going to be accomplished overnight, but it will not be accomplished if we do not begin. So that is what we have done, Mr. Speaker, in this Government. The Budget supports that. We have maintained the support for a number of organizations, and they are varied organizations. I want to take this moment to pay tribute to the people at the community level who are working in Art City, who are working in just housing, who are putting together the houses through R. B.

Russell or through Gordon Bell High School and doing the training programs with JobWO RK.S in the Spence and neighbour hood area. The people of Spence, at their community meetings, are pulling together housing plans and are doing a number of very significant things both in housing and in community planning, and they join both the North End Community Renewal Corporation and the West Broadway Development Corpora tion who have been very active in this area for a number of years. * (1 5:30) So we have areas like Art City, where we have places and groups such as Art City. We have housing programs.

We have a number of things that are beginning in the Point Douglas area, Mr. Speaker, and I think this is something which is beginning to offer hope, energy and is enabling people at the community level who have ideas, who have proposals and who had the opportunity to work together to create very different kinds of neighbourhoods, and who are doing that. It supports them not in enormous ways.

I think many of the ways we are supporting them are quite modest, but I think there is a sense that the feeling of despair that had been there before is beginning to dissipate and that Neighbourhoods Alive! is beginning to make a difference. Over the next 10 to 15 years, I hope that we will be able to rebuild the kind of devastation that we saw in some neighbourhoods of the inner city. Mr. Speaker, I think also it is important to recognize that not only are we dealing with the inner city through Neighbourhoods Alive! but

964 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 1, 2002 that we are in partnership with the City of Winnipeg. We have a number of partnerships with the City. The one that is called Building Communities is also addressing the issue of the shoulder neighbourhoods. Whether it is in the Minto area or in St. Boniface or in Luxton, these are the areas which support the inner city communities. Maintaining good, solid commu nity facilities in those areas and community infrastructure is a very important part of maintaining a strong city and a strong Manitoba.

So that very much fits with the kind of overall community economic development strategy that this Government is supporting in Budget 2002. In addition, Mr. Speaker, we have made particular efforts to ensure, insofar as government can, that there is a revitalization of the commercial areas of downtown Winnipeg, whether it is in our support for the public library in Winnipeg, very much overdue. I think everybody recognizes that the Winnipeg Public Library has to go through a renewal process. Together with the federal government and the City of Winnipeg, we have begun that process.

Waterfront Drive is another area in joint partnership with the federal government and the city government. We are going to I think improve access to the river. We are going to create new downtown opportunities for Mani tobans. I think that will be welcomed by everyone, just as the Forks North Portage Partnership has been an important part of changing the image of downtown and also the opportunities for recreation, for river access, and for general recreation and entertainment purposes in Winnipeg and Manitoba. We are, Mr.

Speaker, anticipating that there will be commercial changes in downtown Winnipeg, whether it is with the private sector led entertainment centre which governments, federal, city, and province, are also supporting. It is engendering, it is leading to new interest in downtown Winnipeg, particularly from the Mountain Equipment Co-op as well as from our own investment in the Exchange District, which I think will make a major, significant change to the number of people who are downtown. Mr.

Speaker, 2000 students every day coming into a restored historic building, I think, will make a very important difference to the kind of market that is available for retailers in the downtown. Mountain Equipment Co-op has already seen the significance of that. Those are things which are underway, that we are supporting in this Budget, and which will build much more balanced opportunities for the city of Winnipeg.

In rural Manitoba I think that, as I said at Rural Forum, I received a number of congratu lations on the Budget and the way in which we were working on issues of not only the equalization of hydro rates, but I think people are very interested in moving along with an ethanol initiative. I think people also are very much aware. We had a number of government booths at the forum this year that looked at government policies in a number of areas but, obviously, in agriculture, the Minister of Agriculture's (Ms.

Wowchuk) new initiatives in bridging generations and in diversification are ones which I think have attracted a great deal of interest. The equalization of hydro rates, I think, has been important in western Manitoba. We are seeing interest and, in fact, establishment of new industries as a result of that, and the principle of ensuring that the public resources of Hydro and the public resources of northern Manitoba are made more equally accessible is one I think which fits with the principles of this Government and one that is widely welcomed across the province.

The announcement that the Minister of Transportation (Mr. Ashton) made at the Rural Forum for the plan for roads, the $600 million that he is planning for roads in Manitoba, I think, is one that was very much welcomed and received a great deal of attention.

I have already spoken of post-secondary education but the increased grants to Brandon University, the expansion of places at Assini boine Community College, increased support for ACCESS students, not a topic the previous government ever wanted to discuss, but increased support for ACCESS students corning from areas like Cranberry Portage as well as from other areas of northern Manitoba. I probably will not have a great deal of

May 1, 2002 LEGISL ATIVE ASSE MBLY OF MANITOBA 965 opportunity to speak about the North at this point, but I do want to make the point about the expansion of support for Aboriginal students at Brandon University, rural students who also will benefit from the reduction in fees and who do, of course, obviously, also have much greater difficulty in ensuring access to post-secondary education. But the expansion of distance education both at the K-to-12 level and at the post-secondary level that we are continuing with is something which I think is equally significant to them. We have talked about housing in Brandon.

I have talked about Neighbourhoods Alive! in Brandon, and I think the expansion of the housing programs in Brandon are ones that have been very, very successful. I want to congratu late both my colleagues from Brandon as well as the Minister of Family Services (Mr. Sale) who has worked very hard to expand affordable housing and affordable opportunities across Manitoba, but particularly in Winnipeg and Brandon and Thompson. Mr. Speaker, this has been a difficult Budget for Manitoba. It is one that obviously is fraught with the difficulties of the federal accounting errors.

It is one that also comes at changed economic circumstances across North America, in part as a result of September 11 . But what we have done is I think to make a number of commitments. We have made commitments in rural Manitoba, in the city of Winnipeg and in northern Manitoba. The regional balance that we are proposing I think is one that is recognized by all. We are keeping our promises, something which should be important to all members of this Legislature. We are working hard to improve access and equity and equality across the province, something which is I think recognized by young people in particular.

We are building on the successes of previous years of healthy children, of sound nutrition, of early childhood education and essentially putting in place now the kinds of supports for all families, that had they been in place 12 years ago would have made a real difference in this province. So, Mr. Speaker, with those, based on principle, based upon practices and based upon this particular Budget, I am very pleased to be able to support it wholeheartedly. Thank you. Mr. Peter Dyck (Pembina): Mr.

Speaker, I want to be consistent with my other colleagues at the outset of the address and welcome our newest Member for Lac du Bonnet (Mr. Hawranik) into our caucus and, of course, into the Opposition here. Certainly, we appreciate his contribution. * (15 :40) But before I go into addressing part of the Budget here and some of the concerns that I have with it, I want to congratulate my commu nities that I represent, specifically Morden and Winkler, in the growth that they have had in the last few years.

Morden had a growth of 8 percent, and Winkler has had a growth of 9.7 percent, certainly some of the highest growth areas within the province of Manitoba. I would say that is in spite of some of the things that have taken place with the present government that we have here, in spite of the fact that the labour laws have been changed dramatically. I believe very strongly that there need to be labour laws but, I believe, that there needs to be a balance, and, certainly, that is something that has changed within the last while.

So those are concerns that have been expressed to me from the business leaders in our area and, indeed, also from the employees. It is interesting how, as the unions come in and want to organize-! do not have a problem with unions, but I believe that there needs to be a balance with that as well. So they are trying to erode the associations that are presently in place within the businesses that I represent, and they just feel that there is an upper hand that is moving in. Of course, that is realistic, and that is specific to this type of government that we have. The previous speaker was talking about deceit.

My goodness, I was a little shocked when she used that word, and then she was trying to portray this of the previous government when, in fact ,here is a government who-and I will refer to a headline line here. This is not something that I have written, but this is something that has come out within the community newspapers: Doer and company robbing Hydro. Well, my

966 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 1, 2002 goodness, you want to talk about deceit. This is the height of deceit. You want to talk about keeping promises, which the previous speaker was talking about, the promise was to fix hallway medicine with $15 million. Well, I mean, you want to talk about deceit, that is there. You want to talk about deceit, talk about Autopac, trying to take $30 million from Autopac. My goodness, somehow they had to quickly take their hand out of the cookie jar because they got caught.

I think that they need to be a little careful when they start putting the blame game on other people for some of the things that have taken place. Mr. Speaker, again, before I address some of the other areas of concern that I have with this Budget, I think this is a government that does not understand that you have to have wealth generation, that dollars have to be created in order that you have dollars available in order to be able to have the programs that we have: the health care, the education, family services. Are these important and vital to our province, to our communities?

Absolutely, but where do you get the money from? There has to be something, a community, there has to be an organization that creates the dollars in order to be able to fund all these important things. Now the Minister of Education (Mr. Caldwell) was out touting all the things that they had done. They could not have done that if that regime had not been put in place by the previous government.

I am immensely proud of the fact that there is the projection out there that our economy is going to grow within the next year, but again, in my opinion, it shows the short sightedness of this Government who thinks that now, within two short years, that they are the ones who have created this. A business is .not created and does not start to generate the kind of funds that we are looking at in order to keep these programs going within this province. It does not do that in two short years.

In fact, if you look at it, if you get involved in any business project, and I guess that again is something that the government of the day lacks, but it is the ability to be able to understand how that process works. So you have to have a business out there that can generate the dollars, in order to be able to do something and have the expenditures that we presently see within this province. So, I think, that they need to be careful how hard they pat themselves on the back about some of the things that are taking place. Mr. Speaker, I do want to speak more specifically to the Budget itself.

As I had indicated here, just a highlight that was in one of the local newspapers, and it continues to say that the provincial government can crow all it wants about being fiscally responsible, but its big cash grab from Manitoba Hydro tells the true story. Premier Doer and Finance Minister Selinger picked the utility's pocket last week and carne up with nearly $300 million to help it pay for running the province. Now, Mr. Speaker, that is a concern to me, of needing to go to a utility in order to balance the books. I am not advocating this in any way.

Let us assume that Manitoba Hydro did not owe any money, but let us set the record straight on this. Manitoba Hydro owes $6.2 billion. You know, the Government can crow all they want about being fiscally prudent, but, I am sorry, this is not a good move. The other point of it is that the province of Manitoba owes $6.9 billion. Now, when you start adding those two numbers together, our children are straddled with a big, big debt. Again, when you look at it from a business perspective, that is difficult. It is going to be difficult to pay for this if in fact we want to see the province grow and continue to grow.

He goes on to say that would be entirely another matter if Manitoba Hydro was free and clear of debt and sitting on top of a burgeoning surplus. That is not the case. Manitoba Hydro has a debt load that rivals the entire provincial Budget, and any money it does make should be going to pay down that debt. So here we also have a government who is talking about doing megaprojects. They want to go out there. They want to build some more hydro darns. Well, my goodness, we have to find the money somewhere in order to be able to do these kinds of projects. Mr. Speaker, I must move on.

Another concern that I have and certainly something that

May 1, 2002 LEGISL ATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 967 has come out, and you want to talk about the seat which the previous speaker was talking about, but how about the Workers Compensation Board? I mean, they are into another board. They are taking dollars out of there, and I have a few questions there. Why is the WCB hiking its premium rate on July 1 by 5 percent? I mean, this is something that employers are paying into.

It is a cost, and we need to be able to remain competitive, but when you add too many little costs, as we are seeing time and time again from this Government, to the cost of the products that we are producing, we cannot be competitive. It may be a shock to many of the Government's side, but we are a global economy. The products that I produce on my farm back home are consumed throughout the world, and so we need to be able to be competitive. Moving on, why does the WCB for the first time withdraw $4 million from the rainy day fund? Why are they taking?

These dollars are supposed to be here to in fact reduce the premiums rather than to increase them, and now we are going back and increasing the premiums. Another question I have is: What other business ventures is the WCB planning on investing premiums in? So where are they starting? Where are they stopping? Another one that I would like to bring to the attention of the House here is the whole part of the tax relief, and do not make me laugh. If they are talking about tax relief, we are losing our competitive edge. It is through the labour laws that we have.

It is through our tax structure concern that we have in rural Manitoba. Of course, the harness industry has been out there. Every little industry that is out there is contributing to this economy, and rurally we see that there is an erosion of the emphasis, of the priority that is being placed on rural Manitoba. * {15 :50) So, of course, I believe that this Government demonstrated that fairly clearly by removing and by transferring the whole Department of Rural Development.

So it is a concern that we continue to see within rural Manitoba, and I would trust and hope that this Government would not abandon rural Manitoba. Yet, I must move on. Another headline that is out there and was in one of our local papers: ''NDP cash grab fiscally irresponsible." The previous minister, I come back to again, was speaking about being deceitful to Manitobans. I clearly believe that this was deceitful in the way they are trying to balance their books from last year by taking money out of Manitoba Hydro to do it this year.

That $15 0-million withdrawal for that one year in order to balance the books I believe is wrong. I believe that accounting-wise it is wrong, and I firmly believe that it should not have been done. I believe that they need to be forthright with Manitobans and indicate to them clearly that, you know, we could not balance the books; we had a spending problem. I know that they have certainly indicated ongoing that the blame goes to September 11 or, supposedly, the payment that they need to get back to Ottawa, which they are using as a crutch. Mr.

Speaker, I must move on and with that I will indicate very clearly that I will have to vote against the Budget as has been proposed by the Government. I cannot support it. I believe, fis cally, it is just not prudent. It is not a responsible Budget, and I also believe it is not being honest with Manitobans in clearly showing how, in fact, they have gotten their revenues and how, in fact, their expenses have been brought out. So, with that, Mr. Speaker, I want to thank you for the opportunity to put a few comments on the record, and I wish everyone well. Thank you. Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Mr.

Speaker, it is indeed an honour to speak on a third in a row of excellent budgets for the people of Manitoba. In fact, there was a budget that we once voted for, so it would be three-and-a-half budgets that I think we are dealing with in a positive way. I want to congratulate the members of our Treasury Board and the Minister of Finance (Mr. Selinger) on the excellent job he has done in preparing this Budget for the people of Manitoba. I think it is important to note coming into this Budget period-and members opposite dealt with an economic slowdown in the early

968 LEGISL ATIVE AS SEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 1, 2002 1990s, and the Auditor then commented that the deficit in the province was $862 million. It is interesting in this budget situation, Mr. Speaker, that there were three definite challenges that were posed to the government of the day. One was the economic slowdown that was going on pre-September 11 with the decline in the international markets.

You have situations right across Asia and Europe and indeed into the United States where even the great mentors of members opposite, the Republican Party, are now running a deficit, a major deficit in the United States with the economic slowdown that is taking place. It was projected in the year 200 1 that 45 out of 50 states in the United States will have serious economic challenges ahead of them.

Secondly, there were the events post September 11 which further dampened some parts of our industries and some parts of our economy and have certainly had a challenging impact on all of our communities and many industries. Thirdly, Mr. Speaker, was the so-called federal error. Members opposite talk about retroactive treatment. This is the retroactive treatment in the sky, if you will, the whole issue of back to 1993.

To hear, for example, that $408 million was allegedly ovetpaid from 1993 to 1999 to previous governments and then the go forward impact of that being close to $10 0-125 million a year, this is a huge problem. Now, Mr. Speaker, when we were confronted with this problem, we delayed our Budget. We were originally scheduled to come in in early March and regrettably this infor mation came to us the last day of January. We were faced with a huge problem. The Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Murray) at the time said, oh, they are just using this, they are just using this to delay a budget.

Now they are asking us questions why we did not have more certainty in our numbers. I mean, this flip-flop, flip-flop Tory culture right now is something to behold, but we felt that those three challenges meant that the ministry of Finance and the Finance Minister had to act in the most prudent way possible with the Budget. This Budget, in my view, bridges the economic slowdown and the federal error uncertainty into the strong economic perform ance we are experiencing now in Manitoba and what is projected to happen into the future, Mr. Speaker, 2002, 2003, 2004.

We think this Budget does provide the balance on the priorities of quality health care, new educational opportunities, stronger families and safer communities, economic development and jobs, keeping the books balanced, keeping Manitoba affordable. I will speak to this balance in a few moments again, because talk is cheap when it comes to balance, but certainly this Budget is

an act of balance, not

an act of misplaced priorities. The major criticism of members opposite has been the whole issue of utilizing the export revenue from the United States for an economic bridge into the stronger economic times. Mr. Speaker, this is an idea that was proposed by the business council in a document we received in December 2001. I was talking to a member of the business council today, and he said: Why do you not point out-and this was at the Victoria Hospital announcement, the major capital announcement-why do you not point out that this was our idea? It is a very good idea, it is an excellent idea.

It is a sound business principle. When you have one division of your company making money and another division pressed with economic challenges that you take from your strength and bridge into the future in a positive way. You do not amputate, you do not sell off the assets as members opposite have done. For them now to feign indignation after they sold the Manitoba Telephone System, and their kissing cousins in Ontario are looking at selling Hydro, I say shame to Tories and their hypocrisy on this treatment. Now, Mr.

Speaker, the member opposite says the original, the Hydro act 40 years ago did not contemplate this. We did pass a new act in 19 87 which members opposite were able to delete, and their deletion of the Manitoba act, The Energy Act, that provided for a heritage based on export sales was

an act of pessimism. The act of the building of this new dam called Limestone which they had mothballed in the

May 1, 2002 LEGIS LATIVE ASSEMBL Y OF MANITOBA 969 Lyon years was

an act of negative pessimism again in Manitoba. We are a party of optimists. We are opti mists, Mr. Speaker, and we have a vision based on optimism, not on the pessimism of the members opposite. I have had fun quoting from members opposite, what they said when we built Limestone in 19 86. What did the Member for Lakeside (Mr. Enns) say in Hansard, for the record? This will go down with his predictions - it is trice and once the head cock crowed here, Mr. Speaker. We have got the raspberry jam. We got the Simplot plant. We got hog growth, and now we have the predictions of the member opposite on Limestone.

Thank goodness he is not a fortuneteller because he would not have the longevity that he is experiencing now, with great honour to him for that political longevity. But predicting the future I daresay, sir, is not your strong suit. I hope you did not buy Nortel stocks before July of2001, but I digress. Let us listen to what the Member for Lakeside said in 1986. He said that we would not make more than 3 cents a kilowatt an hour. He said: It is a mythical profit. I guess we are dealing with mythical profits, right?

It is preposterous to talk about any profits flowing at any time as a result of our generation of hydro. Jim Downey said: It is a mythical dream. Clayton Manness said: We do not believe there will be any profits associated with a Northern State Power agreement. Gary Filmon, the former Premier said: It is an elusive dream-in 19 86-an elusive dream, Mr. Speaker. * (1 6:00) We will put these predictions right on the new Simplot potato processing plant in Portage la Prairie with the quotes from members opposite that said: That plant-you know, he always lowers his voice-will never be built.

We will put that alongside those great other projections and predictions from the members opposite. You know, after Mr. Filmon made the prediction that it was an elusive dream in 1986, he went along with the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Murray) when he was the communication Pooh-Bah for the Conservative party in the 1999 election, he went to northern Manitoba and promised to have a utility that w

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	37-3-24
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	37th 3rd hansardpdf 24.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	1e6d154c734d692b19ed0ee5a7fb18dde65436d1

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