Manitoba Hansard — Sitting 60 (40th Legislature, 3rd Session)

40-3-60

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Third Session - Fortieth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Daryl Reid Speaker Vol. LXVI No. 60 - 1:30 p.m., Monday, May 26, 2014 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Fortieth Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALLAN, Nancy St. Vital NDP ALLUM, James, Hon. Fort Garry-Riverview NDP ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley NDP ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thompson NDP BJORNSON, Peter, Hon. Gimli NDP BLADY, Sharon, Hon. Kirkfield Park NDP BRAUN, Erna, Hon. Rossmere NDP BRIESE, Stuart Agassiz PC CALDWELL, Drew Brandon East NDP CHIEF, Kevin, Hon. Point Douglas NDP CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan NDP CROTHERS, Deanne St.

James NDP CULLEN, Cliff Spruce Woods PC DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk NDP DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood PC EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne Lac du Bonnet PC FRIESEN, Cameron Morden-Winkler PC GAUDREAU, Dave St. Norbert NDP GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Liberal GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach PC GRAYDON, Cliff Emerson PC HELWER, Reg Brandon West PC HOWARD, Jennifer, Hon. Fort Rouge NDP IRVIN-ROSS, Kerri, Hon. Fort Richmond NDP JHA, Bidhu Radisson NDP KOSTYSHYN, Ron, Hon. Swan River NDP LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. Dawson Trail NDP MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St. Johns NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Flor, Hon.

Logan NDP MARCELINO, Ted Tyndall Park NDP MARTIN, Shannon Morris PC MELNICK, Christine Riel Ind. MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East PC NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom Interlake NDP OSWALD, Theresa, Hon. Seine River NDP PALLISTER, Brian Fort Whyte PC PEDERSEN, Blaine Midland PC PETTERSEN, Clarence Flin Flon NDP PIWNIUK, Doyle Arthur-Virden PC REID, Daryl, Hon. Transcona NDP ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Kewatinook NDP RONDEAU, Jim Assiniboia NDP ROWAT, Leanne Riding Mountain PC SARAN, Mohinder The Maples NDP SCHULER, Ron St. Paul PC SELBY, Erin, Hon. Southdale NDP SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St.

Boniface NDP SMOOK, Dennis La Verendrye PC STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo PC STRUTHERS, Stan, Hon. Dauphin NDP SWAN, Andrew, Hon. Minto NDP WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WIGHT, Melanie Burrows NDP WISHART, Ian Portage la Prairie PC Vacant The Pas

2861 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Monday, May 26, 2014 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Mr. Speaker: O Eternal and Almighty God, from Whom all power and wisdom come, we are assembled here before Thee to frame such laws as may tend to the welfare and prosperity of our province. Grant, O merciful God, we pray Thee, that we may desire only that which is in accordance with Thy will, that we may seek it with wisdom and know it with certainty and accomplish it perfectly for the glory and honour of Thy name and for the welfare of all our people. Amen. Good afternoon, everyone. Please be seated. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS Mr.

Speaker: Introduction of bills? PETITIONS Mr. Speaker: Seeing no bills, petitions? Neurofibromatosis Awareness Month Mrs. Leanne Rowat (Riding Mountain): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. And these are the reasons for this petition: Neurofibromatosis is a genetic disorder that causes tumours to form on nerves anywhere in the body. NF also causes complications such as disfigurement, bone deformities, learning disabilities, epilepsy and cancer. NF is a neurological disorder affecting one in every 3,000 births.

NF affects more than 10,000 Canadians, making it more p revalent than cystic fibrosis, Duchenne muscular dystrophy and Huntington's disease combined. The Manitoba Neurofibromatosis Support Group, MBNF, is a support group that provides much needed support to individuals and their families who are living with NF. We petition the Legislative Assembly as follows: To proclaim that the month of May of each year is to be known throughout Manitoba as neurofibromatosis, NF, awareness month. This petition is signed by M. Gebhardt, D. Lasko, D. Jubinville and many m ore concerned Manitobans. Mr.

Speaker: In keeping with our rule 132(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to have been received by the House. Further petitions? Tabor Home–Construction Delays Mr. Cameron Friesen (Morden -Winkler): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. And the background to this petition is as follows:

(1) Morden 's population has grown nearly 20 per cent in five years.

(2) Twenty -three per cent of Morden's population is over the age of 65.

(3) The community worked for years to get the provincial government's commitment to build a new personal-care home and, as a result, construction of the new Tabor Home was finally promised in 2010.

(4) The Minister of Health initially indicated that construction of the new Tabor Home would commence in 2013.

(5) The Minister of Health subsequently broke her promise and delayed construction until spring 2014.

(6) The Minister of Health broke that promise as well, delaying construction again until fall 2014.

(7) I n March of 2014, the Minister of Health again broke her promise, once more delaying construction of Tabor Home until 2015.

(8) Too many seniors continue to live out their final days and months in facilities far from home and family because of a shortage of personal-care-home beds in the area. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

2862 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 26, 2014 To urge the provincial government to stop breaking their promises, stop the delays and keep their commitment to proceed with the construction of Tabor Home in 2014. And this petition is signed by M. Penner, R. Dyck, J. Wiebe and many fine Manitobans. Provincial Sales Tax Increase–Referendum Mr. Ralph Eichler (Lakeside): Good afternoon, Mr. Speaker. I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. These are the reasons for this petition:

(1) The provincial government promised not to raise taxes in the last election.

(2) Through Bill 20, the provincial government wants to increase retail sales tax, known as the PST, by one poi nt without the legally required referendum.

(3) An increase to the PST is excessive taxation that will harm Manitoba families.

(4) Bill 20 strips Manitobans of their democratic right to determine when major tax increases are necessary. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to not raise the PST without holding a provincial referendum. This petition's submitted on behalf of M. Mailman, J. Peitsch, S. Keller and many other fine Manitobans. Provincial Sales Tax Increase– Effects on Manitoba Economy Mr. Cliff Cullen (Spruce Woods): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly.

The background to the petition is as follows: The Premier of Manitoba is on record calling the idea of a hike in the PST ridiculous. Economists calculate that th e PST hike has cost the average family $437 more in taxes after only six months. Seventy-five per cent of small businesses in Manitoba agree that provincial taxes are discouraging them from growing their businesses. The Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association estimates that a 1 per cent increase in the PST will result in a loss to the economy of $42 million and threaten hundreds of jobs in that sector.

Partly due to the PST, overall taxes on new investment in Manitoba recently stood at 26.3 per cent

whereas the Alberta rate was 16.2 per cent and the Ontario rate was 17.9 per cent, according to the Manitoba Chambers of Commerce. The Manitoba Chambers of Commerce are concerned that the PST hike will make an already uncompetitive tax framework even more unattractive to job creators in the province. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to reverse the job-killing PST increase. To urge the provincial government to restore the right of Manitobans to reject or approve any increases to the PST through a referendum. This petition is signed by M. Jamieson, B.

Jewsbury, T. Drinkwater and many other fine Manitobans. Beausejour District Hospital– Weekend and Holiday Physician Availability Mr. Wayne Ewasko (Lac du Bonnet): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. And these are the reasons for this petition:

(1) The Beausejour District Hospital is a 30 -bed, acute-care facility that serves the communities of Beausejour and Brokenhead.

(2) The hospital and the primary-care centre have had no doctor available on weekends and holidays for many months, jeopardizing the health and livelihoods of those in the Interl ake-Eastern Regional Health Authority region.

(3) During the 2011 election, the provincial government promised to provide every Manitoban with access to a family doctor by 2015.

(4) This promise is far from being realized, and Manitobans are witnessing ma ny emergency rooms limiting services or closing temporarily, with the majority of these reductions taking place in rural Manitoba. * (13:40)

May 26, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2863

(5) According to the Health Council of Canada, only 25 per cent of doctors in Manitoba reported that their patien ts had access to care on evenings and weekends. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government and the Minister of Health to ensure that the Beausejour District Hospital and primary -care centre have had a primary-care physician available on weekends and holidays to better provide area residents with this essential service. This petition is signed by J. Calmen, D. Wersturk, M. Debruyne and many, many more fine Manitobans. Mr.

Speaker: Any further petitions? COMMITTEE REPORTS Mr. Speaker: Seeing none, committee reports. Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development First Report Ms. Nancy Allan (Chairperson): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the First Report of the Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development. Clerk (Ms. Patricia Chaychuk): Your Standing Committee on Social– An Honourable Member: Dispense. Mr. Speaker: Dispense? Dispense. Your Standing Committee on SOCIAL AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT presents the following as its First Report.

Meetings Your Committee met on May 22, 2014 at 6:00 p.m. in Room 254 of the Legislative Building. Matters under Consideration • Bill (No. 18) – The Business Practices Amendment Act (Improved Consumer Protection and Enforcement)/Loi modi fiant la

Loi sur les pratiques commerciales (mesures de protection et d 'exécution améliorées à l 'intention du consommateur) • Bill (No. 34) – The Consumer Protection Amendment Act (High-Cost Credit Products)/Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la protection du consommateur (produits de crédit à coût élevé) • Bill (No. 59) – The Adoption Amendment and Vital Statistics Amendment Act (Opening Birth and Adoption Records)/Loi modifiant la

Loi sur l'adoption et la

Loi sur les statistiques de l 'état civil (accès aux docu ments de naissance et d'adoption) • Bill (No. 62) – The Consumer Protection Amendment Act (Contracts for Distance Communication Services)/Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la protection du consommateur (contrats de services de communication à distance) Committee Membership • Ms. A LLAN (Chairperson) • Mr. CULLEN • Mr. GAUDREAU • Hon. Ms. IRVIN-ROSS • Hon. Mr. LEMIEUX • Hon. Ms. MARCELINO (Logan) • Mr. MARCELINO (Tyndall-Park) • Mr. MARTIN • Mrs. MITCHELSON • Mr. RONDEAU • Mr. WISHART Your Committee elected Mr. M ARCELINO (Tyndall-Park) as the Vice-Chairperson. Public Presentations Your Committee heard the following two presentations on Bill (No. 34) – The Consumer Protection Amendment Act (High -Cost Credit Products)/Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la protection du consommateur (produits de crédit à coût élevé): John Silver, Community Finanical Counselling Services Gloria Desorcy, Consumer Association of Canada – Manitoba Branch Your Committee heard the following two presen- tations on Bill (No. 59) – The Adoption Amendment and Vital Statistics Amendment Act (Opening Birth and Adoption Records)/Loi modifiant la

Loi sur l'adoption et la

Loi sur les statistiques de l 'état civil (accès aux documents de naissance et d'adoption): Kirk Stanley, Private Citizen Roy Kading, LINKS

2864 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 26, 2014 Bills Considered and Reported • Bill (No. 18) – The Business Practices Amendment Act (Improved Consumer Protection and Enforcement)/Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les pratiques commerciales (mesures de protection et d 'exécution améliorées à l 'intention du consommateur) Your Committee agr eed to report this Bill without amendment. • Bill (No. 34) – The Consumer Protection Amendment Act (High-Cost Credit Products)/Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la protection du consommateur (produits de crédit à coût élevé) Your Committee agreed to report this Bill without amendment. • Bill (No. 59) – The Adoption Amendment and Vital Statistics Amendment Act (Opening Birth and Adoption Records)/Loi modifiant la

Loi sur l'adoption et la

Loi sur les statistiques de l 'état civil (accès aux documents de naissance et d'adoption) Your Committee agreed to report this Bill without amendment. • Bill (No. 62) – The Consumer Protection Amendment Act (Contracts for Distance Communication Services)/Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la protection du consommateur (contrats de services de communication à distance) Your Committee agreed to report this Bill without amendment. Ms. Allan: Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable member for Tyndall Park (Mr. Marcelino), that the report of the committee be received. Motion agreed to. Standing Committee on Justice First Report Mr. Mohinder Saran ( Vice-Chairperson): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the First Report of the Standing Committee on Justice. Clerk: Your Standing Committee on Justice presents the following– Some Honourable Members: Dispense. Mr. Speaker: Dispense? Dispense.

Your Standing Committee on JUSTICE presents the following as its First Report. Meetings Your Committee met on May 22, 2014 at 6:00 p.m. in Room 255 of the Legislative Building. Matters under Consideration • Bill (No. 3) – The Witness Security Amendment Act/Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la sécurité des témoins • Bill (No. 31) – The Police Services Amendment Act (Community Safety Officers)/Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les services de police (agents de sécurité communautaire) • Bill (No. 50) – The Protection for Temporary Help Workers Act (Worker Recruitment and Protection Act and Employment Standards Code Amended)/Loi sur la protection des travailleurs temporaires (modification de la

Loi sur le recrutement et la p rotection des travailleurs et du Code des normes d'emploi) • Bill (No. 51) – The Legislative Assembly Amendment Act/Loi modifiant la

Loi sur l'Assemblée législative Committee Membership • Hon. Ms. B RAUN • Mr. CALDWELL • Hon. Mr. CHOMIAK • Mr. GOERTZEN • Mr. GRAYDON • Mr. JHA • Hon. Mr. KOSTYSHYN • Mr. PEDERSEN • Mr. SARAN • Mr. SMOOK • Hon. Mr. SWAN Your Committee elected Mr. JHA as the Chairperson. Your Committee elected Mr. SARAN as the Vice-Chairperson. Written Submissions Your Committee received the following written submission on Bill (No. 31) – The Police Services Amendment Act (Community Safety Officers)/Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les services de police (agents de sécurité communautaire):

May 26, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2865 Doug Dobrowolski, Association of M anitoba Municipalities Your Committee received the following written submission on Bill (No. 50) – The Protection for Temporary Help Workers Act (Worker Recruitment and Protection Act and Employment Standards Code Amended)/Loi sur la protection des travail leurs temporaires (modification de la

Loi sur le recrutement et la protection des travailleurs et du Code des normes d'emploi): Ron Gauthier, Human Resources Management Association of Manitoba Bills Considered and Reported • Bill (No. 3) – The Witness Security Amendment Act/Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la sécurité des témoins Your Committee agreed to report this Bill without amendment. • Bill (No. 31) – The Police Services Amendment Act (Community Safety Officers)/Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les s ervices de police (agents de sécurité communautaire) Your Committee agreed to report this Bill, with the following amendment: THAT Clause 2 of the Bill be amended in the proposed subsection 77.4(3) by adding ", victim and social services" after "public safety". • Bill (No. 50) – The Protection for Temporary Help Workers Act (Worker Recruitment and Protection Act and Employment Standards Code Amended)/Loi sur la protection des travailleurs temporaires (modification de la

Loi sur le recrutement et la protection des travailleurs et du Code des normes d'emploi) Your Committee agreed to report this Bill, without amendment on a recorded vote of yeas 6, nays 4. • Bill (No. 51) – The Legislative Assembly Amendment Act/Loi modifiant la

Loi sur l'Assemblée législative Your Committee agreed to report this Bill without amendment. Mr. Saran: I move, seconded by the honourable member for Brandon East (Mr. Caldwell), that the report of the committee be received. Motion agreed to. Mr. Speaker: Any further committee reports? Tabling of reports? MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS Komagata Maru Hon. Erna Braun (Minister of Labour and Immigration): I have a ministerial statement to make. This year marks the 100th anniversary of the tragic Komagata Maru event . The Komagata Maru was a Japanese ship carrying Indian immigrants that set sail on April 4th, 1914.

On board were 376 passengers from Punjab, India, seeking new opportunities for a better life in Canada. The ship arrived in Burrard Inlet near Vancouver only to face open discrimination. Instead of being welcomed into Canada as fellow members of the British Empire, the Canadian navy denied them entry and forced the Komagata Maru to sail back to India where some of the passengers were executed. It was a terrible demonstration of the kind of racism that was a tragic part of our country's history. Continued discrimination prevented many South Asians from immigrating to Canada in the early 20th century.

In a twist of karmic events, 100 years later, Harjit Singh Sajjan, a Sikh, now commands the same regiment that was involved in forcing the Komagata Maru out of Vancouver harbour. Hindus, Sikhs, Muslims and other South Asians have become an essential part of our nation. Today we are moving forward. As diverse Canadian communities, we can continue to unite in our commitment to justice and live in respectful harmony with each other. In our province, we continue to work towards a future where everyone feels welcome. We know that in Manitoba our diversity is our strength. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr.

Dennis Smook (La Verendrye) : It is my honour to rise today to speak about the Komagata Maru incident. One hundred years ago, a Japanese sea ship named the Komagata Maru arrived on the shores of Vancouver, British Columbia. Aboard this ship were 376 people from Punjab, India, who had hopes and dreams of making a better life for themselves in Canada. Sadly, when the Komagata Maru arrived in Canadian waters, it was not allowed to dock. The premier of British Columbia at the time gave a

2866 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 26, 2014 categoric statement that the passengers would not be allowed to disembark. A public meeting was organized by an MP allowing the ship's passenger – not allowing the ship's passengers to disembark and urged the government to refuse to allow the ship to remain. Two months later, the ship returned to India, but when it arrived, British India police in Calcutta shot 19 of the passengers. Mr. Speaker, this was a blatant act of racism by the government of the day. To deny the passengers entry on the basis of ethnicity was

an act of hatred that hurt some of the most vulnerable people in our society. It is a painful reminder of our past and an important lesson for us that we must value and respect immigrants in Manitoba. Today is an opportunity to reflect on this lesson, a lesson of 'tolerism' and respect towards people who choose to build their lives here in Canada. Many levels of government, both the provincial and the federal level, have formally apologized for these atrocious actions. It is clear that over the last century we have made progress, but there's still much work to be done.

Immigrants have played a strong role in the development of Manitoba. We take great pride in our diversity and our determination to achieve equality of opportunity for all in our communities. A multicultural society provides great opportunities for all Manitobans, and I strongly believe that our future prosperity in Manitoba will be a testament to our ability to successfully w elcome newcomers to our cultural mosaic. Mr. Speaker, the tragic incident of the Komagata Maru marks a dark

chapter in our history, but it should also inspire us to pursue a better and more equal Manitoba and Canada in the years to come. Thank you. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, I ask leave to speak to the minister's statement. Mr. Speaker: Does the honourable member for River Heights have leave to speak to the ministerial statement? [Agreed] Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Speaker, it is important that we recognize the events, the sad events, related to the situation of what happened with the Komagata Maru, the Japanese ship carrying Indian immigrants that was pushed away from coming to Canada. Mr.

Speaker, i t is important, as well, that we celebrate what is happening at the moment, that instead of people being pushed away, we are welcoming large numbers of people from Japan, from India, from China, from Pakistan, Bangladesh, Laos, Thailand, Cambodia, Singapore, Malaysia and the Philippines, and these people who are coming to Canada and, of course, to Manitoba are making a tremendous contribution to our country, and that is something that we should celebrate.

I believe we should also celebrate today the fact that India is continuing to be a democrati c country, that they have a new leader just recently elected and, most specifically, that the new Indian leader, Modi, has invited the leader from Pakistan to be there at the ceremony, which marks, perhaps, a turning point in relationships between these two wonderful countries. And, of course, we are so pleased to have so many from both of these countries and the others here in Canada and Manitoba now. Thank you. Mr. Speaker: Any further ministerial statements? * (13:50) Introduction of Guests Mr.

Speaker: Seeing none, prior to oral questions, I'd like to draw the attention of honourable members to the public gallery where we have with us today from Kildonan- East Collegiate, we have 32 grade 9 students under the direction of Jamie Giasson, and this group is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Concordia (Mr. Wiebe). On behalf of honourable members, we welcome you here this afternoon. ORAL QUESTIONS Manitoba Hydro Number of Linemen Mr.

Brian Pallister (Leader of the Official Opposition): Well, Manitobans have a national reputation for giving and we lead the StatsCan numbers in charitable giving, and certainly in volunteerism, I understand, we're near the top of the pack as well. One of the other attributes that Manitobans certainly share is honesty, and it is the Manitoba way, but it doesn't seem to be the spenDP way lately. On April 9th of this year during question period, the Premier stated, quote: There's close to 700 additional linemen working in Manitoba.

May 26, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2867 Now, the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers has taken exception to that comment and replied in a letter which we've been copied on. It says: Knowing that we don't even have 700 linemen in the IBEW, I would have to say that your government must be gathering its statistics from Kijiji. So would the Premier like to take the opportunity to correct the record? Who is right here, is it the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers or is it the Premier? Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): Mr.

Speaker, first of all, I want to acknowledge the Komagata Maru 100th year anniversary for that very tragic and unfortunate incident and how far we've come as a country in respecting diversity. In 2000 there were 2,261 IBEW members, and as recently as this year there are 2, 907 members. That's 650 members more, so there has been growth in the number of members in the IBEW that work for Manitoba Hydro. But the member is correct; they're not all linesmen. There are many different people there fulfilling a variety of roles. In addition, Mr.

Speaker, we have moved on accreditation of power line technicians with on- the- job training. This is a first in Manitoba, and we have said we will double the number of power line technicians that are being hired and trained in Manitoba. So thi s is a big step forward for people that are very interested in doing that profession. Privatization of MTS Job Loss Numbers Mr. Brian Pallister (Leader of the Official Opposition): So we'll take IBEW's word for it. Now, in terms of the letter, it goes fu rther.

It is a letter, actually, to the minister in charge of Hydro, and it says, and I quote now: In your letter, you also claim that 500 IBEW members –500 IBEW members–were fired as a result of the privatization of MTS. That must be another fact that you've gathered from Kijiji. I have spoken to the business manager of IBEW at the time, and he advises that there were no members that were fired because of the sale of MTS. The Manitoba way being truth, Mr. Speaker, and that not being the NDP way, let me ask the Premier again to clarify here: Who's right? Is it the workers that he is claiming lost their jobs?

Is it the union representing those workers? Is that who's right, or is he saying that the IBEW has got its facts wrong? Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier) : Mr. Speaker, 10 years after the Manitoba Telephone System was privatized by the member opposite –proudly privatized by the member opposite –we have seen in a study done by the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives, CCPA, that the number of IBEW workers has gone from 1,200 to 700; that's a decline of 500 people.

The f ormer Communications, Energy and Paperworkers Union, now part of Unifor, saw its numbers plunge from 750 members in 1996 to 1,000, and the Telecommunications Employees Association of Manitoba has gone from 1,100 to 1,000. These are identified by the CCPA in its 2007 Fast Facts, for a total decline of 1,350 jobs at MTS. That's a very significant reduction, and there's more information of what happened to their pension plan, which I'd be happy to put on the record in a subsequent question. Manitoba Hydro Contracting of Services Mr.

Brian Pallister (Leader of the Official Opposition): Manitobans who were unfortunate enough to listen to the Premier's advice on the Crocus fund I'm sure will wait with bated breath for him to tell them about his pension information. You know, when this government ran in the last election, of course, they told Hydro workers that–[interjection] They promised Hydro workers that they wouldn't privatize, and there's another broken promise, an NDP promise that is a broken promise, w hich is most of them lately. They have privatized now and outsourced on tree trimming, dam maintenance, pole salvage maintenance.

Numerous tasks and responsibilities previously done by members and employees of Manitoba Hydro are no longer done by members of Manitoba Hydro, employees of Manitoba Hydro. What the government has done is cut Manitoba Hydro workers out, just like they did with the air ambulance contract when they cut Manitoba companies out of a chance to bid on it. So let the Premier answer this question: Did his government promise the members of IBEW that it would not privatize without notice, and then proceed to do so? Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): Mr. Speaker, the relationship between IBEW is with the Crown

2868 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 26, 2014 corporation known as Manitoba Hy dro, something that is now owned by the people of Manitoba, very different contrast to when the member opposite was in government and the people of Manitoba owned the telephone system and the rates were the third lowest in Canada. Now that is a private cor poration with the majority of shares owned outside of Manitoba, with 1,350 less employees, with a pension plan where money was taken out of it.

It became the subject of a court case that went all the way to the Supreme Court, and only after a decade of lit igation did the Supreme Court confirm that that money should not have been taken away from the people that worked at MTS. Their pensions should have been protected. The member opposite privatized pensions, laid off people and caused them to lose jobs, and he should apologize for it today, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a new question. Regional Office Closures Mr.

Pallister: Well, I'll take that non-response, then, as a yes; the government did lie to the wor kers at Manitoba Hydro and did, in fact, outsource without giving them a chance to bid on the work. Now, in fact, when the Premier talks about Manitoba Hydro being owned by the people of Manitoba, that's refreshing to hear. It's unfortunate the government doesn't act like it and insists on treating Manitoba Hydro and its employees as their personal toy. That is not helpful.

Now, the members of the government went to the Hydro workers of this province just last spring and they told them that there would be no closures of regional Hydro offices, none. They gave them their word, and five months later, 12 were immediately closed and another 12 offices are going to be closed in the next couple of years. Would the Premier like to verify that when his government gave their word to Manitoba Hydro workers, they actually lied? Mr. Selinger: Mr.

Speaker, the Public Utilities Board, the regulator, said to Manitoba Hydro that they should find greater efficiencies in the way they deliver services. What we made sure di d not happen is no employee lost their job as they found more efficient ways to deliver services. That's a real contrast to the members opposite that laid off thousands of employees in the public service. And we all know about the 1,000 nurses, but many civil servants lost their jobs under their approach to the way they dealt with dealing with austerity in a recession.

We have grown the economy; we have grown the number of people working in Manitoba during that period of time. No Hydro worker is losing their job if the corporation seeks greater efficiencies so they can keep rates the lowest in North America for all Manitobans. Contract Management Government Record Mr. Brian Pallister (Leader of the Official Opposition): That's right, Mr. Speaker. Dealing with austerity's tough. You've got a choice: You can balance the books or you can borrow money on Manitoba's children's credit card.

You can steal money from the future and imperil the future of our social services, education system and health -care system, just the way this government is doing that. So let's summarize here. The government promised a number of things to Manitoba Hydro workers and other civil servants across the province. Then they gave away work without advance notice and didn't give gov ernment employees a chance to even bid on providing the work. Then they closed regional Hydro offices after promising not to, and now they're trying to frighten Manitoba Hydro workers, civil servants and their families with phony figures.

They are misrepresenting the figures. That is not the Manitoba way. Will the Premier verify with his answer that it is, indeed, the NDP way? Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): Mr. Speaker, I put on the record the number of employees that were lost, by an independent study at the MTS, when the member opposite privatized it. Now, the member opposite suggests that we're running deficits and that he didn't. They ran many deficits in the 1990s, and only after they sold the telephone system did they start balancing the books by th e proceeds from the sale of the telephone system.

Telephone workers lost their pensions, telephone workers lost their jobs, and they used some of the revenues from that to balance the books. * (14:00) We're balancing the books by increasing the number of jobs, growing the Manitoba economy, investing in infrastructure, which is a priority for

May 26, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2869 Manitobans, Mr. Speaker, ensuring that health- care workers are available to meet the needs of families, ensuring child-welfare workers are not laid off one day a week, ensuring that teachers are in classrooms, not being laid off to the tune of 700. There's a very dramatic difference in how we're dealing with it. We have a plan to grow the economy. We have a plan to skill up workers. We have a plan to build infrastruct ure and we have a plan for innovation, and the members opposite, what did they do? They practised the program of hard austerity.

Yes, there was a choice, Mr. Speaker. We chose the path of supporting Manitobans and growing the economy. They chose the path of reducing the economy and laying people off. Manitoba Hydro Contracting of Services Mr. Ralph Eichler (Lakeside): This is the same government that couldn't balance the books since he's been in power, Mr. Speaker. Obviously, he has no credibility, none whatsoever. Mr. Speaker, let's break this down. The government says 700 more linemen. What does the union say? In fact, there's only 117 hourly journeymen in the IBEW, which approximately one half work in customer service.

During the last 15 years the IBEW has lost tree trimming; dam, pole maintenance; underground installation; and now they're beginning to lose pol e salvage work. Will this minister admit the only threat to jobs in this province is this government? Hon. Stan Struthers (Minister responsible for Manitoba Hydro): This government who balanced the budget 10 years in a row, Mr. Speaker, and we didn't do it by selling any Crown corporations along the way.

To be–and to be technically correct, the member should just amend what he just said by saying the biggest threat to IBEW workers is the fellow sitting three places down from him in this Legislature, Mr. Speaker, because this all comes about if you decide you're going to stop selling hydro into the export market. You're going to allow rates to go up, and you're going to allow people to be laid off, as we saw with the Manitoba Telephone System when his leader had his hands on the wheel in this province. Mr. Eichler: Mr. Speaker, obviously, doubling the debt is what this minister claims to fame.

He has no integrity at all, none whatsoever. The IBEW goes on to state that customer service distribution is up by 62 per cent in contracting out services. Its entire growth is 0.4 per cent. Obviously, under this NDP government, more contracting out and fewer employees. Obviously, the government can't get it right. So I ask, Mr. Speaker, the question the IBEW and all Manitobans what to know: Shouldn't contracts be required to prove measurable savings for ratepayers before being let out, or at least give the IBEW and Manitobans a choice? Mr.

Struthers: His leader says that they have no intentions to sell the Manitob a Telephone System, and now he talks about integrity? Mr. Speaker, s ince we've come to power there are 650 additional IBEW members in this province; 50 of those are linesmen. This side of the House is committed to training more linesmen. This side of the House is committed to increasing the size of the IBEW membership. This side of the House isn't going to sell off Manitoba Hydro like members opposite have said they would. Mr. Eichler: The minister wants to talk about integrity.

This is the same minister that went out and promised multi-year funding. Shame on him. He did not follow through on that. It's the same minister that said he was going to balance the budget, which he did not. It's the same minister, the same government that went out and said they would not raise the PST. So, Mr. Speaker, if they're really truly wanting to save Manitoba Hydro, why are they working so hard to privatize it? They give 30 per cent of it away and now they're privatizing jobs without any consultation with the IBEW. Where do they really stand on the Hydro issue? Mr. Struthers: We stand, Mr.

Speaker, for using Manitoba Hydro sales of –export sales to keep our rates the lowest in the continent. That's where we stand. We stand on the side of supporting Hydro workers by not selling the private –by not selling Hydro to private interests as they did with the Manitoba Telephone System, as they tried to do with home care, as they tried to do with home care and were prevented by people standing up to them and

2870 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 26, 2014 making them back off. We're not the party that has said we're going to privatize health care like members opposite have said. Mr. Speaker, it's very clear that we're not going to put the brakes on the projects that members want us to because those projects lead to low r ates and putting Manitobans to work and building our economy for the future. Flooding

(2014) Forecaster Position Mr. Reg Helwer (Brandon West): Very sad, Mr. Speaker. This from the government that continues to raise hydro rates and punish Manitobans. Mr. Speaker, flood information from this NDP government has been difficult to find recently. That's not to say that the flood has ended. There's been a great deal of flooding from this Shellmouth Dam through downstream fields and communities, through Bra ndon. The Portage Diversion is redirecting a large amount of water into Lake Manitoba, putting farmers, ranchers, property owners and First Nations at risk. Mr.

Speaker, timely, accurate information is critical for flood preparations, but this NDP government has apparently learned nothing from past floods. Mr. Speaker, has the delay in hiring a flood forecaster put Manitobans at risk? Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister responsible for Emergency Measures): Mr. Speaker, I'm very surprised that the member opposite in one question seems to have criticized some of the key elements ensuring that we deal with flood situations in the spring, that protects people downstream in the Assiniboine, on–from Portage, that protects people here in the city of Winnipeg.

I point out, by the way, that it's pretty rich, the member talking about Lake Manitoba and Lake St. Martin. First of all, Lake Manitoba is well within the normal range, Mr. Speaker, but it's this government through its budget that's put in money to build the outlet from Lake St. Martin that's going to provide protection along with the new outlet from Lake Manitoba. But, Mr. Speaker, I'm also surprised that this member opposite continuously is critical of our staff. I want to put on the record that our forecasters are some of the best anywhere in the world. Our chief forecaster, Dr.

Unduche, came to Manitoba, and they do a tremendous job in–under very difficult circumstances. Surprised the member opposite would be– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable minister's time has elapsed. Forecast Update Mr. Helwer: Mr. Speaker, it's the minister that delayed hiring the staff, not the staff. Mr. Speaker, downstream residents and farmers were pleading with the government to release more water from the Shellmouth Dam all winter. It fell on silent–just wouldn't listen to them. Nobody would listen.

The government said no, and now we –they have essentially lost control of the water flow 'fudding' farmland yet again, four out of five years. Mr. Speaker, releasing water over the winter would have reduced the flows we're now seeing downstream and lessened the need for using the Portage Diversion. Why can't this NDP government predict flooding? Why can't this government te ll people what is happening to the flood waters? Mr. Ashton: In the real world of flood forecasting, you don't have 20/20 hindsight. The member opposite, if he wants a briefing with our staff, will find out, Mr.

Speaker, that we had more than 200 per cent of normal rain in Westman this year, and that is why they had to do what they did in terms of release. He may also, Mr. Speaker, also want to talk to the member for Portage, because one of the key elements in the operation of the Shellmouth Dam, in addition to flood protection, is to ensure water supply for the Assiniboine River. And I would put on the record that continuously, every spring, our staff has to balance both flood protection and the water needs of Portage. Maybe members opposite can get their act together before they come into question period. Mr.

Helwer: Well, I'm very concerned, Mr. Speaker. Apparently, the minister doesn't know that it doesn't rain in the winter. Mr. Speaker, the NDP government has learned nothing from past floods, learned nothing from 2011, and now, yet again, they put farmers, ranchers, property owners and First Nations at risk all the way from the Shellmouth Dam into Lake Manitoba.

May 26, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2871 Why can't this NDP government provide accurate, timely flood information for Manitoban s? Why does this NDP government continue to revictimize flood victims? * (14:10) Mr. Ashton : You know, Mr. Speaker, it's called snow in the winter. I think everybody knows that. And, you know, I know that we've seen from question period over the last period of time that the member for Brandon West is an expert on anything and everything. He, Mr.

Speaker, seems to think he knows more about engineering than the engineers, more about construction than those in the construction industry. Now he knows mor e about forecasting than our people that spend years studying, have years of experience in terms of forecasting. But I want to finish with the member for Brandon West by saying one thing: He can lecture us all he wants, but he voted against our budget that's put in place the flood protection for those communities. You know what, Mr. Speaker? It's a fact that members opposite applauded for that shows they don't get it. We're there for flood victims.

We don't need no lectures from members opposite, particularly from the member from Brandon West. Manitoba Public Insurance Internal Savings Options Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): Well, Mr. Speaker, the member for Brandon West (Mr. Helwer) will always vote against illegal tax hikes. Mr. Speaker, the NDP are trying to convince Manitobans that MPI is broke and so they've hired somebody at $180 an hour to go to Manitobans and tell them that MPI has no money, the same person that got a half a million dollars just previously when they retired.

What's frustrating to Manitobans, of course, is that it always seems that this government goes to Manitobans first for more money instead of looking internally for savings. Manitobans should be the last resort to look for more money, not the first place the government always goes. What assurance can the minister responsible for MPI give Manitobans that they're looking for savings internally at MPI before they go to Manitobans and ask them to pay more, Mr. Speaker? Hon.

Andrew Swan (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Act): Again, we can talk about MPI any time the member wants, because over the past decade MPI has actually reduced the cost of auto insurance in Manitoba by almost 15 per cent. And that is a record unmatched by any other public or private insurer in this country. And, of course, the member for Brandon West , who always gives us so much joy when he stands up and then speaks, of course, confirmed that, indeed, Mr.

Speaker, t he member for B randon West is one who perhaps does understand that the basket of costs in Manitoba is among the lowest –he was wrong in that it's actually the lowest, but he certainly, at least on CJOB radio a couple of weeks ago, acknowledged that MPI is part of the Manitoba advantage, part of affordability and a true jewel and the best auto insurance in Canada. Executive Vehicle Leases Mr. Goertzen: Mr. Speaker, the NDP want Manitobans to believe that MPI has fallen on hard times, though it –apparently those hard times haven't reached the top.

In fact, not only does MPI continue to provide vehicles for each of their executives –they're pretty nice vehicles at that –most recently, MPI leased two new vehicles for their executives, two Acura MDXs. Now, I don't know a lot about Acuras, Mr. Speaker, so I looked it up. Each of these vehicles costs $53,000 each and they're described as the ultimate collaboration of luxury and performance. They even feature heated steering wheels, which I guess are good for those harsh winters, one like we just had, which the government is saying is responsible for the MPI increase. Mr.

Speaker, if MPI can afford luxury vehicles for their executives, why can't they give Manitobans a break and not charge them more for their insurance? Mr. Swan : Well, again, Mr. Speaker, in case the member didn't hear this earlier today or any other time we've talked about MPI rates, the cost of auto insurance in Manitoba has decreased by 14.9 per cent over the past decade. And, well, I'm glad to hear the member talk about rebates, because in addition to the 14.9 per cent rate decrease, when ordered by the Public Utilities Board, Manitoba Public Insurance has on five occasions in the past 15 years returned

2872 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 26, 2014 rebate money to ratepayers, just like the member for Agassiz (Mr. Briese), just like any of us in this Chamber, just like other Manitobans. And I know the member for Agassiz would prefer that that money go to shareholders in Toronto or New York or London or Paris; I prefer, Mr. Speaker, they stay right here in Manitoba. Mr. Goertzen: Well, Mr. Speaker, not only do the NDP furnish MPI executives with top -of-the-line vehicles, they get their own choice as well.

When the former VP of finance for MPI retired, he was only eight months into the lease of his Nissan Murano LE. I didn't look it up, but that sounds like a pretty nice vehicle, Mr. Speaker. But instead of providing that vehicle to the incoming VP of finance, MPI bought that lease out for $10,339 and provided the new VP with a new Acura. Must be something about those Acuras. Mr. Speaker, is paying $10,000 out on a lease and giving MPI executives top- of-the-line vehicles what this government considers to be lean management?

And why are they going back to Manitobans to ask them to pay more when the top executives of MPI get to be able to take their best vehicles and give $10,000 back on broken leases? Mr. Swan : You know, I would encourage the member from Steinbach to actually do some research, to actually do some research on the value that Manitobans get for Manitoba Public Insurance. And, Mr. Speaker, if he did his research – I know the member likes to google; he can get on and he can take a look at the increase that's being proposed in Saskatchewan.

Saskatchewan Government Insurance, another public auto insurer, has gone to their equivalent of the Public Utilities Board requesting a 5.2 overall rate increase. And if the member did a little bit more research, he would see that Saskatchewan Government Insurance has done its own comparison. And what does that comparison tell us? That Manitoba has the cheapest auto insurance in all of Canada. And, Mr. Speaker, if he'd research the performance of auto insurance systems across the country, he would find that Manitoba has the best value for insurance and, again, a decrease of– Mr. Speaker: Order, please.

The honourable minister's time has elapsed. Children in Care Update Case Concern (Jaylene Redhead) Mr. Ian Wishart (Portage la Prairie): Mr. Speaker, last Friday the report on the inquest into the tragic death of Jaylene Redhead became public. Jaylene is the latest in a series of children who have died while under the care of CFS and this government. Both the agency involved and the Nativ e Women's Transition Centre seem to have been unable to provide the supervision necessary to look after the child's welfare. Both are covered by service agreements with this minister.

When is the government going to take its responsibility for children i n the care of CFS seriously and look after their welfare? Hon. Kerri Irvin -Ross (Minister of Family Services): Mr. Speaker, the death of Jaylene Redhead was a tragedy. The person that murdered Jaylene is in jail now for 12 years. Her life was cut short. She was 20 months old when she was murdered by her mother. We provided her with services. The agencies worked in the best interests of the child, and as they moved forward– this is a very serious issue, and Judge Lawrence Allen provided us with 14 recommendations.

And in those 14 recommendations, he provides us with a process in which we need to follow, and it also acknowledges that since Jaylene's death, that there have been improvements that we've made, but we have much more work to do. Mr. Speaker: Orde r, please. The honourable minister's time has elapsed. Mr. Wishart: It's understatement to say there is more work required. Mr. Speaker, file notes were again missing in the case of Jaylene Redhead. It appears either little regard to recordkeeping occur s in these cases, or there's someone in place to shred any records when a case goes badly.

Prior recommendations from other reports included the need to–for note -taking and recordkeeping. When is this minister and this government going to take their resp onsibilities seriously, or will more deaths have to occur before we learn? Ms. Irvin -Ross: The child -welfare system within the–in Manitoba works every day for the No. 1 priority of keeping children safe. There are

May 26, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2873 tragedies that happen. We need to learn from these tragedies and we need to continue to move forward. We have worked constantly and consistently with the authorities, the agencies, as well as other stakeholders within the system to ensure that we are providing service. There are standards that are in place. There are expectations every day for the workers so that they are providing a good quality service to families and to children. Again, I'd like to say our No. 1 priority is the safety of all Manitoba children. Mr. Wishart: Mr.

Speaker, the minister has said before it is our responsibility to learn from the circumstances surrounding a child's death while in care of CFS. I think Manitobans feel we have learned enough hard lessons and it's time not to just embrace the hundreds of recommendations that have occurred but to take action and make change. When is this minister going to make real change in CFS to prevent the deaths of more children in care? Ms. Irvin-Ross: There are actions that happen every day within the child -welfare system to ensure that we are protecting children, to ensure that we're providing families with supports.

That happens because the investments that we have made over the years to hire more staff – 280 more staff are within the system to provide support–to ensure that we are putting standards in place, to ensure that we have training opportunities for all our staff. * (14:20) It's all of our responsibility to protect our children. That's why we work every day on this side to ensure that we are providing the resources that are necessary for families and for children, as well as supporting the authorities and the agencies which serve them. Manitoba Hydro Bipole III NFAT Review Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr.

Speaker, Saturday's Free Press reported, and I quote: "The PUB is considering whether Keeyask and Conawapa, and the new transmission line, make economic sense or whether they should be postponed until more is known about how much power the Americans are willing to buy. The PUB's report is due June 20." End of quote. Since many have criticized this NDP government for not including the transmission line, Bipole III, in the NFAT review, I ask the Premier: Did he change hi s mind over the weekend and is the PUB now going to review Bipole III and the new transmission line? Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): Mr.

Speaker, the Clean Environment Commission has already approved the bipole with many, many conditions, some of which wer e even added to by the minister when he reviewed the recommendations they made. And as you know, the need- for-alternatives review is going on right now at a time when there – with current consumption patterns, that hydro will be needed somewhere 10, 12 yea rs from now, Mr. Speaker, and at a time when there are $9 billion of export–new export contracts that have been signed which will generate about $29 billion of export revenues over the next 30 years.

So export contracts have been signed for $9 billion incremental. There's a tremendous demand for the energy south of the border and with our neighbours as well, and, Mr. Speaker, we're looking at, through the NFAT process, all the different configurations of how to provide power in Manitoba and what the best plan going forward is to ensure that rates stay lowest in North America for Manitobans. Manitoba Hydro Rates Demand-Side Management Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): So, Mr.

Speaker, the Premier is not including Bipole III in the NFAT review even though Manitoba may be facing very large increases in hydro rates. Mr. Speaker, the whole premise of this NDP government as it is currently run now is that Manitoba will run out of power in 2023. Now, in the report commissioned by the independent inquiry released today, Graham Lane says he anticipates energetic demand-side management would defer the need for a new dam for a decade or more beyond 2023 and would keep hydro rates low.

When will this slow NDP government bring in a more energetic demand -side management plan that can be the basis for an improved forecast for power need in our province?

2874 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 26, 2014 Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): Mr. Speaker, we believe in demand -side management programs. When we came into office Hydro was ranked No. 10, the bottom of the list, for energy efficiency programs in the country. It is now ranked No. 1. It is ranked No. 1 because it has made several significant improvements in demand management programs, Power Smart programs, they're called in Manitoba. Manitobans can get low -cost access to insulation. They can get low -cost access to high-efficiency furnaces. They can get low -cost access to geothermal installations.

They can do a variety of retrofitting projects which will reduce their energy costs. We do think that is a very important dimension of what Manitoba Hydro does, which is why they have gone from No. 10 to No. 1, and they will continue to do that because demand management is an essential part of the long- term planning of Manitoba Hydro. But it's also true that the experts b efore the need-for-alternatives committee have pointed out that there is very robust demand for the export of hydroelectricity out of Manitoba into jurisdictions like Minnesota, Mr. Speaker.

When we sell that power at a profit outside of Manitoba, those pr ofits pay down the cost of the new dams, and that keeps the rates low for Manitobans, the lowest in North America. Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Speaker, notwithstanding the Premier's dubious claim, the fact is that this government has not focused appropriately on demand-side management. We're behind most jurisdictions in the US and Canada. For example, Vermont has created Efficiency Vermont, a not -for-profit agency promoting and delivering energy efficiency measures independent of Vermont's utilities.

Vermont now projects forward going that their demand- side management will produce savings of 2 per cent of annual sales of electricity. This is to be compared with one quarter of this, 0.5 per cent, being forecast in Manitoba. When will the government be energetic in demand-side management to help reduce the need for continuing hydro rate increases? Mr. Selinger: The member and I agree that energy efficiency programs are essential to the future cost-effectiveness of Manitoba Hydro. We would like them to look at the experience all over North America, or anywhere else for that matter, to learn from best practices.

They started at No. 10. They are now No. 1. We think they can take it even farther. Mr. Speaker, one of the things we did to facilitate that was Pay As You Save legislation, noted–called PAYS, where somebody can install new technology in their home, whether it's insulation, furnace, geothermal unit, other forms of energy management within the ir home, and the first month after they stall that new technology, their bill is lower than it was before and they are able to pay that off over the life of that asset.

These innovative financing tools allow Manitobans and businesses and apartment owners, as we roll this out, to be able to save energy. That's exactly what we want. Every kilowatt of energy saved in Manitoba is available for export where customers are demanding that. They want that energy. It's clean, it's reliable and it's affordable. It keeps the rates low in Manitoba because those export profits pay down the cost of dams and keep them affordable for Manitobans. University College of the North Thompson Campus Mr. Clarence Pettersen (Flin Flon): Mr.

Speaker, the Golden Boy was looking beyond the Perimeter and smiling on the North last Friday. While the Leader of the Opposition and members opposite are still struggling to develop a northern strategy, this government has been investing in northern Manitoba since 1999. We believe in ensuring that steady economic growth and good jobs benefit all Manitobans, and that includes northerners. That is why we have built the University College of the North system to provide opportunity for jobs, training and post -secondary education for northern Manitobans.

Can the Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation please update the House about the newest addition to the UCN network? Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation ): Mr. Speaker, it was a great day for northern Manitobans, great day for Manitoba when we officially opened the $82- million, brand new Thompson UCN campus with a child -care centre and the housing that goes with it. I want to put on the record that hundreds of Manitobans, hundred northern Manitobans celebrated last Friday. But this didn't just happen. It

May 26, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2875 was a result of decades of work by northerners and many people throughout the province, and I want to say not everyone agreed with it. Members opposite opposed the establishment of UCN and opposed the establishment of the campus in Thompson. So it was a great day, and I want to, on behalf of my constituents, all northern Manitobans, and, quite frankly, many Manitobans throughout the province, say it makes a difference who you vote for. Thanks to the NDP, we now have a brand new campus for UCN in Thompson. Flooding

(2011) Crop Insurance Coverage Mr. Stuart Briese (Agassiz): Mr. Speaker, farmers and ranchers in the Lake Manitoba inundation zone are now being penalized by this NDP government for the ongoing effects of the 2011 flood. They are either being refused c rop insurance or having their coverage significantly lowered. The man-made flood was no fault of those farmers and ranchers. What action has the Minister of Agriculture taken to address the concerns of those farmers and ranchers in regard to their crop insurance coverage? Hon.

Ron Kostyshyn (Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Development ): I just want to acknowledge the hard- working people with crop insurance in MASC department where we had to deal with the flood of 2011. Let me share some informa tion with the members opposite. I'm –with–are quite familiar with when we talk about crop insurance programs. It is a joint program that is shared by the federal government and provincial government, and we talk about programs that the member opposite is asking us to extend. That is not possible unless we have proper consultation with the federal government, and we have.

And I think the members opposite are quite familiar with Minister Ritz. When we talked about the flood that happened in 2011, we talke d about the continuation hangover of the 2012 flood event. We asked Minister Ritz to cost -share in the continuing flood. Mr. Ritz's comment was simply, we do not pay for a flood two years in a row based on one -year flood. That's my answer to that question. Mr. Briese: But the promises were made to these farmers and ranchers. The promises were they wouldn't have ongoing effects from that flood, and they are getting it through crop insurance.

In June of 2011 in Langruth, the then- minister of Agriculture, the member for Dauphin (Mr. Struthers), promised comprehensive multi-year flood compensation to the victims of the man- made Lake Manitoba flood. Another broken promise. Why have the NDP forgot their promises? Why has the crop insurance coverage to the fl ood victims been cut? * (14:30) Mr. Kostyshyn : Unfortunately, we have weather events and rain events that happened that's beyond our control.

When we talk about a watershed that starts in Alberta and in Saskatchewan and into Manitoba, we are the bathtub of a watershed that starts from the south and from the west as well. And what we need to have is continue a dialogue of investigations and true understanding of a watershed, and we are doing that, as a government, with fellow ministers across to the west and also to the south.

But the sad reality is the members opposite chose to vote against the budget that we're looking at as a secondary outlet to provide not a reoccurence of the flood of 2011, and I wish that members opposite would co- operate and support us of developing a program that will have efficiency for our surface water management for the benefit of all rural producers, cattle producers, and Lake Manitoba as well. Thank you so much, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker: Time for oral questions has expired. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Mr. Speaker: It is time for members' statements. National EMS Week Mr. Dave Gaudreau (St.

Norbert): This week we celebrate National Emergency Medical Services, EMS, Week. National EMS Week honours the dedication of the men and women on the front lines of our health-care system. These first responders ensure Manitobans get the quality care they need as quickly as possible. I am proud our government recognizes the valuable role these men and women contribute to our health- care system. They deliver critical life- saving services across the province. This year's theme for National EMS Week is Our Family Caring for You. This theme echoes the care that so many of us receive from our first

2876 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 26, 2014 responders. Mr. Speaker, t hey are our friends and our neighbours, caring for us in all kinds of emergencies. Whether a medical emergency, a fire or a flood, EMS professionals are the people who ensure our lives can go on in the face of tragedy. A few years ago, I experienced first -hand the professionalism, courtesy and kindness of our EMS staff when my mother was ill. To me it became clear that these folks not only approach their job with strength and commitment, but have dedicated their lives to saving the lives of others. Mr.

Speaker, on behalf of e very Manitoban, I extend a sincere thank you to all of our guests here today in the gallery and to all the EMS personnel throughout the province. I ask all members of the Legislative Assembly to join me in thanking the men and women working in EMS across Manitoba. You are everyday heroes and we are grateful for the personal medical-care services you provide each day to Manitobans. You are there for us in some of the most frightening moments of our lives, and for that and everything else you do to help us, thank you. Kirkcaldy Heights School Mr.

Reg Helwer (Brandon West): I am very pleased to rise in the Manitoba Legislature today to recognize two grade 4 classes at Kirkcaldy Heights School in Brandon. I was invited to answer questions from the classe s last Friday, May 23rd, 2014, by teachers Karen Jebb and Myra Bridgeman. The students have been learning about all levels of government and I felt very honoured to discuss the role of a member of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. Mr. Speaker, the s tudents had a list of questions that were asked by many different students and the classes had a very good understanding of the roles of government.

Once we went through the prepared questions, there were many more challenging questions from the classes. I hope I was able to answer them in a way that made sense, but there was one question to which I did not know the answer. The question was: What happens if two candidates receive the same number of votes in an election? I did not know, but I told the class I would check and get back to them with an answer. Mr. Speaker, I read The Elections Act and then spoke with Elections Manitoba. They also reviewed the act and confirmed that in the case of a tie vote in an election, there is an automatic recount.

If the tie is confirmed, a new election must be held for that constituency. Mr. Speaker, thank you to the grade 4 classes at Kirkcaldy Heights School and to the teachers Karen Jebb and Myra Bridgeman. I was greatly encouraged by the interest shown by the student s. Some students even said they wanted to be an MLA when they grew up. We are thankful that we live in a province and country where all those students have that opportunity, and we know that opportunity is not available in every country around the world. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Royal Canadian Air Force Run Ms. Deanne Crothers (St.

James): On May 25th, the Royal Canadian Air Force held their premiere running event, the RCAF Run. The event brings together members of our Armed Forces, their families and members of the community as well, to challenge themselves physically, either by running, walking or wheeling a half marathon, the 10 kilometre or the family fun run. It emphasizes our potential, regardless of age or ability, to rise up to challenges and meet our personal goals. It was an honour to attend the event and to stand with the courageous men and women who served so selflessly to protect us here at home and around the world.

The RCAF Run takes participants on a journey through 17 Wing Air Force base. The course runs down the flight line, which is lined with operational RCAF aircraft, and continues through Air Force Heritage Park where historic RCAF aircraft are mounted for display. It is a vivid reminder of the RCAF's decorated past and of the vi tal role they still perform today. Each year proceeds from the RCAF Run are used to help military families in need.

Funds are divided between two noble causes: the Military Families Fund provides immediate support to military families in times of crisis, and Soldier On helps injured and ill members of the Canadian Forces develop new skills and realize their potential through physical activity. Mr. Speaker, the Royal Canadian Air Force is a shining example of how deeply the Canadian Armed Forces are rooted the community. I want to thank Race Director Jim White. In addition to his 31 years of service to the Armed Forces, Master Warrant Officer White embodies the

May 26, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2877 Armed Forces culture of fitness and shares his passion with the community. Thank you to all of the volunteers for their commitment and to the many families who came out to take part and show their support and, of course, congratulations to all the participants of every age, each of whom went home with a medal for their participation. Thank you. National EMS Week Mr. Shannon Martin (Morris): Mr.

Speaker, May 25th to 31st is National Emergency Medical Services Week, a week that brings together local communities and medical personnel to publicize safety and honour the dedication of those who provide t he day -to-day life -saving services of medicine's front lines. In recognition of this week, I would like to rise today to speak about the important work of the paramedics of Manitoba who advocate for a better health care on behalf of their patients. Paramedics are highly trained, skilled medical professionals who are educated to carry out many of the duties of a physician.

They can examine, evaluate and treat patients with equipment and medications usually only found in the emergency departments of hospitals. Paramedics are typically sought out –after as emergency-care practitioners on ambulances or in first response emergency vehicles, but their scope is rapidly expanding to many areas, including industry, elementary and high schools, colleges, hospita ls and doctors' offices. The Paramedic Association of Manitoba works to represent both rural and urban practitioners of this honourable profession.

They strive to enhance the role of paramedicine as the vital component in our health-care system and promote the highest quality emergency medical services available. Over the course of this morning, Mr. Speaker, Winnipeg Fire Paramedic Service EMS live tweeted a virtual ride along, starting off at École Robert-Browning showing off some of the 20 pacer paramedic teams, teaching kids about the proper use of 911. They when–they then went on a 911 call–to a 911 call centre and we virtually followed them through traffic as they assisted an elderly person in distress as well as several other calls throughout the city.

They also met virtually –we also met virtually with them community paramedics who are working with citizens to manage chronic health concerns. The goal was to give the public a look at the day of life of a Winnipeg EMS. This goal was resoundingly met and I encourage all members to check them out on Twitter at #WpgEMS to learn more. Thank you. Lindsay Rubeniuk and Nicole Yunker Hon. Stan Struthers (Minister of Municipal Government): I would like to recognize the accomplishments of two incredibly ca ring and dedicated women, Lindsay Rubeniuk and Nicole Yunker.

Moved by the poor conditions facing orphans in Ukraine and the alarming number of young people later being recruited into the sex trade, Lindsay and Nicole knew they had to act. Together they have embarked on a number of projects that are working to combat child poverty and human trafficking in Ukraine. Their first project, Boxes of Love, can–collects good-as-new winter clothes for children at Nadvirna Orphanage in the city of Ivano- Frankivsk. People across Dauphin and throughout the Parkland have embraced the project, sending in everything from boots and parkas to hand-knit mitts and toques.

But Lindsay and Nicole have not stopped there. Wanting to ensure that children leaving orphanages have a bright future, the pair are partnering with NASHI, a Canadian -based organization fighting human trafficking in Ukraine. NASHI operates the Maple Leaf Centre which is an educational live -in centre that provides basic life skills development, temporary housing and support for at-risk youth.

Lindsay, who has years of experience in community development, and Nicole, who has experience in job training and placement, are helping the Maple Leaf Centre develop an education and job training program for young women at risk. By providing these girls with valuable skills, the program will create future employment opportunities and help break the cycle of poverty. The duo will also be hosting an educational speaker session this fall at the Watson Art Centre in Dauphin. The event will explore How Human Trafficking Affects Us All –The Ugly Truth with author and investigative journalist Victor Malarek. Mr.

Speaker, I want to congratulate Lindsay and Nicole for the success they have had and thank them for their incred ible work that they are doing. Thank you. Mr. Speaker: Grievances? Seeing no grievances–

2878 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 26, 2014 * (14:40) ORDERS OF THE DAY GOVERNMENT BUSINESS Hon. Andrew Swan (Government House Leader): Mr. Speaker, could you call a second reading of the following bills: Bill 70, Bill 72, Bill 71, Bill 64 and Bill 69, and if we get there, if you could also call debate on third reading of Bill 32. Mr. Speaker: We're going to consider bills –second reading for bills in the following order: Bill 70, followed by Bill 72, 64, 71, 69 and also, if time permits, we'll move to debate and concurrence on third reading of Bill 32. All right. I'll try this one more time.

Currently, I have a variety of lists. To make sure I get the bills in the following–in the correct sequence, second reading of Bill 70, followed by Bill 72, 64–71, 64, 69, and then, if time permits, we'll move to debate on concurrence and third reading of Bill 32. I think I have it correct now. SECOND READINGS Bill 70–The Real Estate Services Act Mr. Speaker: Okay. We 'll now proceed to call Bill 70, The Real Estate Services Act. Hon. Ron Lemieux (Minister of Tourism, Culture, Heritage, Sport and Consumer Protection): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Municipal Government (Mr.

Struthers), that Bill 70, The Real Estate Services Act;

Loi sur les services immobiliers, be now read a second time and referred to a committee of this House. Motion presented. Mr. Lemieux: Mr. Speaker, and I know, too, many lists that you refer to. In fact, I had a honey -do list myself this weekend that I had to do, and –but thank you. First of all, I just want to say a real congratulations goes out to the Real Estate Association, the Real Estate Brokers Association, and many others who've worked very, very closely with the Securities Commission to work hand-in-hand to make sure that they could get the best possible bill in place. Mr.

Speaker, as has been noted, in the days of the carrier pigeon and sending messages and telegrams back and forth about purchasing real estate, those days are gone. Now we have computers. Now people are using Kijiji; they're using all kinds of resources to access real estate sales. And, as we know that buying a condo or a house is the biggest investment most Manitoba families will make –all of us in this Chamber have made that leap at some point, and many of us are now watching our children go through the process of buying their first homes. Mr.

Speaker, our government wants to ensure that the right legislation is in place to protect Manitobans buying or selling their home. This legislation will ensure that families are protected and that real estate agen ts are operating on a level playing field. Many real estate agents in this province are certainly some of the best in the country.

They have been real estate agents for many, many, many years, but because the real estate market is very hot in Manitoba, there tends to be new people coming into the marketplace wanting to sell real estate, possibly for only a short period of time, be in, out, make a profit. And I know that real estate brokers and the Real Estate Association want to ensure that there's integrity with regard to their sales people, and they want to make sure that there, again, is a level playing field that they can all operate by.

Again, the Real Estate Brokers Association, as well as the Securities Commission, have been working on legislation for a long period of time. There have been a couple of changes made in the last 60 years or so, but, Mr. Speaker, this is a more in-depth change as to what needs to take place with regard to real estate sales and real estate sales personnel in the province of Manitoba. This bill replaces The Real Estate Brokers Act. This is legislation that was written over 60 years ago, Mr. Speaker, and this is when our marketplace drastically–sorry, this is when our marketplace was drastically different.

It was before the ATM, before the pocket calculator. The old act even references using telegrams, as I pointed to earlier. It is certainly time to modernize this act to reflect how the real estate industry has evolved. We have moved from telegrams to email and to cellph ones, and the legislation that regulates the industry should reflect this. Most Manitobans use real estate agents when they buy or sell a home, and we want to ensure families are treated fairly and have their best interests represented. Our government hel d a public consultation with over 500 Manitobans. We asked

May 26, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2879 them about their experiences with real estate agents and brokers and their experience overall with regard to either selling or purchasing homes or condominiums. Many had a very positive experience with their real estate agents. However, about 20 per cent, or a fifth, did not sign an agreement with their agent, the sales commission and fees were not explained upfront, and the clarity with regard to the whole process left a sour taste in their mouth, needless to say, Mr. Speaker.

Over half of the home buyers and sellers had experienced bidding wars or multiple offers. We all know how complicated those situations can get, but a third of the people said their agent did not explain the process to them at all and how the process would work on multiple offers, which is disconcerting to say the least, Mr. Speaker. We have listened to their concerns, Mr. Speaker. With this bill, several changes will be made, including an online registry of real estate age nt information that the public can access.

This will include information about any disciplinary actions that have been taken against an agent, so Manitobans can easily confirm an agent is licensed and in good standing. The new act will also allow the com mission to make regulations to regulate the real estate services industry, including regulations that require registrants in specified categories to comply with a code of conduct. The new code of conduct will guide responsible, ethical services and avoid conflicts of interest.

It will also be –require truthful and accurate advertisements, personal information protection and full disclosure for conflict -of-interest situations. The act will require that agents sign service agreements with their clients upfro nt that explain their role as well as their sales commission and fees. Again, this is about making sure Manitobans get a fair deal and know exactly what they will be paying. You know, Mr.

Speaker, in Manitoba, many individuals who are either going to be s elling or purchasing have often believed that the percentage that is being charged is locked or carved in stone, and that is not the case. Everything is negotiable with regard to compensation for a real estate agent. And that could mean a flat fee being paid to a real estate agent. That can mean a percentage. It could be anywhere from 4, 5, 6 per cent. It could be as low as 2 or 3 per cent, depending on the agent and depending on the negotiations between the seller and the buyer on a particular transaction.

So, for no other reason, a number of individuals have mentioned to me that they were quite surprised to hear that this is negotiable. Somehow they thought that a percentage of 5 or 6 per cent was locked in, and that's not the case. This bill will also increase penalties for agents violating the act. Fines for agents will be increased from a paltry $1,000 maximum to a maximum of $100,000, and we are adding the prospect of jail time for agents who breach the act more seriously. * (14:50) A lot of work we nt into creating this bill.

I'd like to thank, once again, the Manitoba Securities Commission for their hard work in putting it together, as well as the Manitoba Real Estate Association. We worked very closely with the MREA in creating this legislation, and their input has been extremely helpful. Mr. Speaker, most real estate agents already follow the principles in Bill 70 and work hard on behalf of their clients.

This is about making sure that Manitobans are protected by law when working with real estate agents on such an important investment, as well as making sure that good real estate agents are on a level playing field with those who may try to get around the rules and skirt the rules because they're only in the market for a short period in time, trying to make a quick buck. For our government, this is the next step in protecting the biggest investment that Manitobans make and keeping life affordable. Last fall, we passed The New Home Warranty Act, which will require warranty protection for newly constructed homes.

We received tremendous feedback, positive feedback, with regard to that piece of legislation, Mr. Speaker. Again, because for Manitobans, purchasing a home or a condominium is one of the largest purchases any family will make. And it's a c ertainly an important, important purchase that many of us know, and as I mentioned before, have certainly taken that step to do so. And, know, Mr.

Speaker, that those purchases, if anyone has taken that leap recently –I know my daughter and others, both m y daughters, actually, recently just made purchases, and it's –the process itself, unless you have a good agent, unless someone is making sure everything is absolutely clear with regard to the cost, the percentage of what it will cost to either purchase a h ome, and the clarity that is necessary is truly important because of the–because

2880 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 26, 2014 of those purchases that have taken place and, quite frankly, the kind of money you're talking about. And, you know, Mr. Speaker, that we believe that the hard work of the Ma nitoba Real Estate Association and real estate brokers association is really important in this. It's been over 60 years, as we mentioned, before anything substantial has happened. Our government really believes it's about affordability.

It's making Manitoba affordable, keeping Manitoba one of the most affordable places to live in Canada and has been pointed out by many, many, many individuals in this Chamber on how Manitoba is and has been one of the most affordable places to live in Canada. And we want to ensure that continues. We're not just talking about keeping automobile insurance low or heating bills low or electricity bills low. That all adds to it, Mr. Speaker, but we believe that consumer protection and the ability to make sure that Manitoba 's affordable has a lot to do with consumer protection, as well.

When the consumers are making such a large purchase as home purchases, that is really important that it's done well, people are protected when they're buying a home. They have the assurance t hat not only is the government on their side, but that the real estate brokers and people in the industry are on their side and they're trying to do the best job for their client that they can. We also passed legislation, Mr. Speaker, to make sure that vehicle advertising includes the full cost of a vehicle, so that Manitobans aren't taken in by hidden costs and fees.

And we have ensured that Manitobans will get and will be getting their cars fixed and will be treated fairly by ensuring only authorized repairs are completed at the cost that was agreed to in the estimate. Again, that affordability piece, I believe, is paramount in this. And when you're being told that it's going to cost you X amount of dollars for repairing your vehicle – and most garages an d people who do repairs on automobiles are very good about telling people and explaining to people, this is what it's going to cost at base cost.

If it goes up, if we find something else with regard to what may needed to be done in your vehicle, we will give you a phone call. Please give us your cell, give us a phone call, your email address, something where we can contact you. Before we do one extra thing of work on your vehicle, we need to talk to you to get authorization to move ahead. Mr. Speaker, t here are cases where an automobile dealership will say, you know, your brakes are at 60 per cent or 65 per cent. We should take a look at those brakes and change them for you.

But, you know, you're good for another, you know, 5,000 or 8,000 kilometres, until your next check. And we can do it at that time. But what they do is that they at least give you the opportunity to say, well, no, you've got the car in the shop now. Go ahead, for convenience reasons and safety reasons, et cetera, go ahead and make the ch ange. Do what you have to do. But, on the other hand, Mr. Speaker, a person may say, well, no, if they're good enough for another 5,000 kilometers or 8,000, I will wait until that time, and the next time I bring it in for an oil change, you can do the complete job. So, Mr.

Speaker, it is important that the industry and those dealerships make sure that whatever they're doing that there's some clarity and they're explaining to the consumer what exactly they're going to get for what they're paying. And that again is, I think, one of the most – whether it's dealing with cable bills, Internet, television, cellphone bills, whether or not it deals with electronic monitoring of a home security system, a lot of it comes down to clarity and transparency at th e beginning, that people are notified and are explained to exactly what they're going to get for what they're paying.

And often the complaints that come in to the Consumer Protection Office is directly related to that, is that had someone in the marketpl ace had that dealership, that owner of a business taken the time to sit down and explain carefully, that would not have resulted in any kind of complaint. Maybe the people wouldn't have been–or the individuals wouldn't have been happy with the price quoted to them. I mean, that's a given. All Manitobans like a deal and are looking for the best deal, not unlike Canadians elsewhere, but people are always looking for the best deal that they can get.

They're always looking for the most reasonable priced item that they can purchase. But, again, the consumers really feel slighted and taken advantage of when they get a bill after the fact that–you know, that was not what was initially quoted to them at the beginning. And a lot of the complaints at the Consumer Protection Office would be taken care of had someone taken the time at the beginning, had the business taken the time at the beginning to explain to the consumer, the customer, exactly the process that they'd be going through and exactly what the cost would be that they're

May 26, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2881 purchasing, and a lot of the complaints would not have been registered. Mr. Speaker, for our government, this is the next step, again, in protecting the biggest investment that Manitobans make in keeping life affordable, as I mentioned. L ast fall, we did pass The New Home Warranty Act which will require warranty protection for newly constructed homes, as I mentioned. We also passed legislation to make sure that vehicle advertising includes full cost of the vehicle upfront, no hidden fees or costs. And this year we committed to going even further.

We asked Manitobans to share their experiences with home renovations, and are currently looking at measures that can be taken to make sure customers or consumers get a fair deal when working with contractors to repair their home. Many Manitobans, as we've been talking about for the last few minutes, that want to take the plunge into buying a home or a new condominium –there are many Manitobans now and many others across the country that are looking at purchasing condominiums. Again, they're high- priced, one of the largest purchases anyone will make. But, Mr.

Speaker, those who do not want to purchase a new home or condominium, many want to renovate their homes. I know many in this Chamber have eit her done that themselves or have children–their children who have renovated their homes or renovated their condos to make–to increase the value of that home.

They may wish to sell it down the road or increase the value of their condo or just to increase th e aesthetics and the beauty of their home to–because their family has either grown, they may have new children, so they want to expand the living quarters and/or they just want to beautify their home, again, which is the largest investment most will make.

So, when they're looking at hiring someone to come in to do that work, there's a real trust factor there that if somebody is coming in as an electrician, a plumber, a tradesperson, a carpenter, someone who's going to be shingling their roof, reshingling their roof, that the person actually knows what they're doing. They're not just going to give people a quick quote and then all of a sudden they'll show up on your doorstep the next day with a crew that's going to be doing this renovation or home repair or condo repair and expect a huge down payment right at the beginning even before any work starts.

So, again, yes, Mr. Speaker, we know the term, I forget the legal terminology, but it's buyer beware, caveat emptor, and, yes, that still exists. * (15:00) But Manitobans have told us, we want you to stand up for us and we want you to put rules in place that will make Manitoba –keep Manitoba affordable but will also make sure that it keeps businesses on their toes to ensure that they're being treated fairly. And, Mr.

Speaker, we are taking action to ensure that contractors –and contracts, sorry –for cable, satellite, radio, Internet are clear and fair, and we are cracking down on high- interest, short-term loans to ensure that Manitobans can borrow at a fair cost. Now, with Bill 70 we are bringing regulation of the real estate industry into the 21st century, which I mentioned before, while making sure that Manitoba families are protected when buying and selling their home or condominium. Some may call our consumer protection plan red tape. We've heard the opposition mention this often.

When we bring a new regulation in–and I know my critic has mentioned this himself – regrettably, we've seen members opposite vote against good consumer protection legislation, which is quite sad because this is really keeping Manitoba affordable but also protecting the consumer in the province of Manitoba. The Conservatives have consistently opposed the measures that we have introduced to keep life affordable for Manitobans and protect their investment. Instead of helping make sure that families get a fair deal, they have been on the side of the shady, unethical companies who would take advantage of Manitobans.

Now, I know members opposite would not necessarily want to view themselves as that, but it's –that's really what we're talking about here, is that if you're not on the side of the consumer and trying to do whatever you can to protect them, who are you–whose side are you on? You're on the side of, you know, shifty people within the marketplace that are looking to take advantage of senior citizens, young people, people of all ages, quite frankly, and so we don't call consumer protection red tape. We call it making a real difference and a better deal for Manitobans. And I know m ember for St. Johns (Mr.

Mackintosh), the previous minister before me, had let–had a–introduced a document called let's make a fair or a better deal, and he deserves a tremendous amount of credit for that. We've almost delivered the

2882 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 26, 2014 majority of those commi tments and we certainly want to ensure that we are going to be moving forward on a number of other initiatives which I mentioned before. But I would really implore members opposite to really take a look at this legislation in a kind -hearted way and really take a look at those poor individuals who have been ripped off, taken advantage of by unscrupulous people in the workplace. Just to maybe summarize, Mr.

Speaker, with regard to real estate and real estate brokers, we are so fortunate in Manitoba to have such great real estate companies and very, very honest and forthright individuals within that market. I know that you have many great companies like RE/MAX, Century 21, Trinkl Realty, many –there are many great, great companies that operate with the highest ethical standards of–anywhere. And, you know, Mr. Speaker, we've talked about the code of practice that we're looking to put in to our legislation.

This code of –there is a code of practice nationally for people who are in the sales industry with regard to real estate, but Manitoba's going to have our own specific, made -in-Manitoba code of ethics for people in this particular industry. I believe it's important because for 60 years this particular legislation hasn't been touched and it –the time has come. Y ou know, the code of practice will ensure that the level playing field that's there –which, by the way, the industry is calling for. This is not just something the government is introducing.

The industry is calling for this because they know with the kind of investment and new individuals, new people coming to Manitoba, some difficulty with language because we have new citizens. We've encouraged immigration to Manitoba. We have a lot of good people moving to Manitoba.

We want to ensure that they're not taken advantage of when they're looking to buy a home or a condominium, and we want to make sure that the code of practice reflects that to make sure that the industry itself has the best people in the industry and the people that are not –they are trying to take advantage of new immigrants, not trying to take advantage of young people who are maybe making their first purchase in their lifetime of a home or condominium or, indeed, people who are older who are really depending on their real estate agent or broker to do the best possible job for them without any conflicts of interest, not referring to–people to home inspectors that they may have cut some kind of a sweetheart deal with.

Manitobans don't want that, and they want to ensure that a code of ethics and people who break the rules, their names and/or companies are posted on the Securities Commission website to show that these people have been in contravention of the legislation that will be passed. So I'm really hoping, Mr. Speaker, in many ways, that bil ls like the consumer protection legislation that we've brought forward, initially many members opposite have voted on some of the bills we've brought forward at one stage, but we're hoping that they'll reconsider and that we can make our bills unanimous.

I think all Manitobans would really look upon that as, well, people working in this House together and being on the same wavelength, trying to protect the consumer and making sure that Manitoba remains affordable. So, Mr.

Speaker, I know there's –there are many others that may want to speak to this particular bill, Bill 70, The Real Estate Services Act, but I, for one, would like to just conclude by just saying that the days of the carrier pigeon sending telegrams – telegraphs back and forth are over and chis elling something into a tablet like the Flintstones is over, and so I just want to say that I know the members opposite will support consumer protection in a way that Manitobans would expect us to do. So, with that, Mr. Speaker, I thank you very much. House Business Mr. Speaker: The honourable member for Steinbach (Mr.

Goertzen), on House business? Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Official Opposition House Leader): Yes, Mr. Speaker, on House business. I understand we might be in concurrence tomorrow, so in anticipation of that I'm tabling the list of ministers for concurrence to be questioned concurrently tomorrow, if, in fact, we are in concurrence. Mr. Speaker: I thank the honourable member for Steinbach for his indication of which ministers will be required for concurrence, if we're in that tomorrow, and the list has been tabled. The ministers required will be the Minister of Health (Ms.

Selby), the Minister of Agriculture, the Minister of Education, the Minister of Municipal Government (Mr. Struthers). * * *

May 26, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2883 Mr. Speaker: The honourable member for Elmwood, on debate on Bill 70. Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood): I'm very pleased to put a few words on the record today regarding Bill 70, and following that te rrific speech by the minister fully explaining all the implications of Bill 70, The Real Estate Services Act. Mr. Speaker, this bill replaces The Real Estate Brokers Act, which, as the minister indicated, has been a long, long time in progress.

It's been around for many, many years, and so what this bill does is it modernized the regulation of the oversight of the real estate industry in Manitoba, and some of the changes include creating an online registry of real estate agent information to be available including information about disciplinary actions, allowing regulations to be made by the Securities Commission to regulate the real estate services industry including regulations that require agents to comply with a new code of conduct and dramatically inc reasing the penalties for agents who are violating the act.

The–in terms of buying a condo or house, it's the biggest investment most Manitoba families will make, and our government wants to ensure that the right legislation is in place to protect Manitob ans buying or selling their home. Manitobans spend, in many cases, a lot of time, you know, deciding on which trip to take or which groceries to buy in the local grocery store, and, when it comes to buying a house, one of the biggest investments they're ev er going to make, in many cases they spend less time dealing with buying that house than they do buying just ordinary consumer items.

So it's very important that–there's reasons why governments have regulated and regulate real estate sales in this provinc e and in this country. And most Manitobans use real estate agents when they buy or sell a home. We want to ensure that the families are treated fairly or have their best interests represented. * (15:10) In fact, people are allowed to sell their own houses. They can put up a for sale sign, handmade sale sign, and sell it themselves, or they can go to a – you know, some of these businesses like ComFree, and they can sell it through them.

But the reality is that this system really only works well when the market is very, very good. But when the market goes back to its normal conditions where it's tough– much tougher to sell the houses when interest rates are high, the economy's not as good, then that's where real estate agents really show their true value because they can get houses sold in bad economic times as well as good.

So, at the end of the day, many people will try to sell the house themselves or they may get a company like ComFree to try to sell it for them, but after two or three weeks of frustration, most of them, in fact, turn around and do phone one of the registered real estate companies in this province to get the professional services that those brokers and agents offer. The legislation will ensure that families are protected and that real est ate agents are operating on a level playing field. Bill 70 modernizes the regulation oversight of the real estate industry.

It ensures transparency and fairness, makes sure buyers and sellers get a fair deal from agents. Public consultations with over 500 Manitobans told us that many Manitobans had positive experiences with their real estate agents, however 20 per cent said that their agent did not sign an agreement or fully explain their sales commission and fees upfront. Over half of home buyers and se llers experience bidding wars or multiple offers. However, a third of them said their agent did not explain this process to them, and, in fact, that's been a relatively new phenomenon as well.

It's only been in the last 10 years or so that we have experienced such a hot real estate market. In my memory, I don't think we've ever had a market like we've had in the last 10 years where there's a competition to sell houses and there's a bidding war going on and people are totally shocked when houses are going f or way more than their listing price.

And, in fact, people are throwing caution out the window and not getting home inspections done and not putting the prudent conditions that they should be putting into a contract, for example, making it subject to the ir lawyer's approval or making it subject to a home inspection. And the reason that they don't take these actions –and they should take them–is because they go through the experience of losing a couple of deals in a –in the competitive market, and so what they decide to do then is they throw caution to the wind and they don't put conditions in.

They buy houses without any conditions and then they wonder why, after a couple years, that there's all sorts of defects that show up in the house that they would have found out if they had done a home inspection.

2884 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 26, 2014 So Bill 70 is going to, as I've indicated, create an online listing of all agents and any disciplinary findings against them, allowing Manitobans to easily look up an agent, confirm that they are legitimate and see that they've had any issues, requiring that agents use service agreements with their clients upfront and explain their role as well as their sales commission and fees. Agents will be required to inform home sellers of all offers on their home, which is especially helpful in multiple -offer situations.

Agents will be required to notify parties of a conflict if they're representing both the buyer and the seller, and a new code of conduct will guide responsible, ethical services and avoid conflicts of interest. It will include requiring truthful and accurate advertisements, personal information protection and full disclosure for conflicts of interest. And it's certainly been a problem in a minor ity of situations, but it's been a problem over the years, has cropped up, and it’s something that we want to try to avoid.

There are–you know, there is a lot of rules right now governing brokers and agents in the province, and still–with the number of people operating out there, there's still a number of violations that occur. We're also working to deter individuals from violating the provisions of the act by increasing penalties. Up 'til now the penalties have not been substantial, so fines for agents will be increased from a $1,000 maximum today to a maximum of $100,000, and we're adding the prospect of jail time for agents who breach the act more seriously. In terms of support, Mr.

Speaker, for this bill, we worked very closely with the Real Estate Association in this legislation. And Mr. Brian Collie, who has been around for a long, long time, the CEO of the Manitoba Real Estate Association, has stated that many of our recommendations are already implemented, and we also look forward to continuing this partnership to ensure that buying and selling homes and properties in Manitoba is a positive, community-building experience.

And the fact is that the agents and the brokers do support this legislation, and–because they, too, don't want to se e the industry getting a bad reputation in any way, shape or form. We recognize that many Manitobans have positive relationships with the real estate agents, and that most agents already follow the principles we are setting out in Bill 70. We want to make sure that all agents are following these principles and all Manitobans are protected when they make for what will be the most largest investment in their lives. In terms of our government's –and the minister did address this issue.

Our government's recor d on consumer protection is far and away superior to what we see when the Conservatives have been in power over the years. A matter of fact, they view consumer protection as red tape, red tape on industry. And the members put it on the record, last time w e talked about this issue, that new home warranty is considered, in their opinion, red tape. So I'd like to see what all those new homebuyers out in Charleswood and Transcona in the new developments–there is huge, huge development of new building activit y in the suburbs of Winnipeg, and working families are moving into these homes.

And I'm sure they're going to be very pleased when they find out that the Conservative members are saying they shouldn't have a new home warranty protection and that new home w arranty protection is basically a–is red tape on the builders, is a tax on the builders and something that shouldn't be available to the new homebuyers. A matter of fact, I would suggest to you that pretty well 100 per cent of those new homebuyers are going to not only say they want the new home warranties, they're going to say they want stronger, improved, new home warranties.

So I'd like to see where the opposition's going to come down on that when they have these people phoning their office, the office o f the Leader of the Opposition, to complain about where they stand on this issue. So, Mr. Speaker, people do expect good value for their money, and they do want to see the government look out for their best interests and put these rules on professions in this province. We have a high quality of life that makes our province a great place to live, work and start a business. We're taking action to ensure that Manitobans' largest investments are protected, and they don't get ripped off.

The New Home Warranty Act, as I'd indicated, will require warranty protection for Manitoba families purchasing newly constructed homes, often the largest purchase a family makes. We have guaranteed that when consumers are purchasing their next vehicle, that advertising will ref lect the true costs of the vehicle. The PCs oppose both of these measures, making it harder for families to protect their biggest investments that they make. Our plan, Mr. Speaker, to invest in Manitoba will keep the economy growing with more jobs. And we've made changes that will keep Manitoba

May 26, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2885 affordable. We've protected consumers from unfair treatment when they get their cars repaired by ensuring only authorized repairs are completed at the costs that were agreed to in the estimate. We've taken action to ensure cellphone contracts are clear and fair, with measures that limit cancellation fees and ensure plain language contracts. We've cracked down on the high- interest, short-term loans to ensure that Manitobans can borrow at fair costs. The opposition, on the other hand, Mr. Speaker, they–their position on consumer legislation is totally suspect.

Manitobans want laws they can rely on so that they know that when they make a purchase or pay for a service, they're on a level playing field with the company they're dealing with. But the opposition has repeatedly voted against our legislation that protects Manitoba families from unscrupulous companies and from getting ripped off. The opposition stood with shady, fly -by-night, unlicensed construction companie s and against families when they refused to support warranties for new homes.

They fought for the right of unethical car dealers to hide the true cost of a vehicle after contracts–until after contracts were signed. * (15:20) The PCs have even said they w ould consider eliminating rent control. And, quote, one of their candidates in the last election, he said, we will be looking at lifting rent controls. That's what Manitobans have to look forward to under a PC government. The opposition has opposed eve ry single increase in the minimum wage since 1999. And, Mr.

Speaker, they talk about, you know, a low –Manitoba being a low -wage environment and other so- called observations which are certainly not true –and when they are opposing minimum wage increases consistently over the years. The biggest single danger to Manitoba's affordability is the PC plan for American -style, two- tier health care where wealthy individuals would buy their way to the front of the line and everyone else would have to go without. And every time the PCs have come into power, that's basically the story – that's the story. All you got to look at –the Ontario election.

If anybody wants to see how a PC government operates, they only have to look and see what Mike Harris did in Ontario. And now, you know, Mike Harris Jr., Tim Hudak is out there proposing the same kind of approach. Is it 100,000 layoffs to public servants? That's what he's proposing in Ontario, and where are all these people going to go? Well, actually, you know, they'd be probably moving out to Manitoba a lot of them after –in the –after the next couple of weeks fleeing a PC government. But as MLAs we get a lot of complaints in our office about real estate issues.

And, you know, one of the observations I'd like to make is we'v e had complaints over the years about the lack of part -time agents being allowed in the business. And I remember way back, 20 years ago I had to go to court with Lyle Bauer as a witness. I got a –as a witness. I got actually a cheque, a $40 cheque, and it was a combines investigation into real estate industry in Canada. And did you know that there's only three boards, three real estate boards in Canada that actually act under–set up as

an act of the Legislature: the board in Quebec and the board in Winnipe g, and I forget where the third one is. But every other board in Canada operates on the basis of –under the constitution you're allowed to work part -time. Insurance agents, they're allowed to be part -time, right? But the real estate board of –Winnipeg Real Estate Board restricts part -time people; you're not allowed to be part -time.

And, you know, my argument has always been that if you're prepared to have all the education requirements and pay the huge fees that the board charges and if you only want to sell one house in a year, that should be your choice. But what it does is it keeps people out of the business and requires them to be only part time. Now, the exception is made for brokers. So anybody who takes these broker courses–which a lot of people can't pass. They're quite expensive. They're up to about three or four–up to, I think, four courses nowadays, and it takes a couple years.

So you have to go through that whole process before you could become a part -time agent. So maybe we want to be looking at that, and perhaps when the bill gets to committee there'll be presenters on that issue. And another big issue that the real estate brokers and agents have to deal with is this whole area of grow ops. You know, people–the police have to keep a better record of where these grow ops are because anybody that knows anything about grow ops knows that these things actually destroy houses –they destroy houses.

And criminals will buy houses, fancy houses in nice new neighbours and set them up as professional grow ops. And then what happens is the house gets destroyed with the humidity and mold

2886 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 26, 2014 develops in the house and so on. And then what happens is once the grow op gets busted, the owner puts this thing on the market again and, you know, dumps it off to the–on unsuspecting public who buys the house. And what you see right now is you've got– the Winnipeg police have a list of grow ops on their website and the RCMP have another list. And, unfortunately, I think, the Winnipeg–if I'm not mistaken–the Winnipeg police si te only keeps them up for, like, 24 months and then they drop them off. You know, it's impossible to keep track of these things.

So there should be like a central place where people can check –where the real estate agents can check for grow ops, so they don't have to go hunting around trying to find out what –whether their house was a grow op or not. Another big area that real estate brokers and agents are dealing with now is this knob and tube wiring, that if you've got a house with knob and tube wiring you've going to have to–before you can find an insurance company to insure it for you, you're going to have to replace the knob and tube wiring. Now, you know, if anybody wants to know what kind of expense this is, it's quite a lot.

You can –I know of one person who bought a house, you know, a few months ago and ended up having to spend, I think, $20,000 to replace –to take out the knob and tube wiring. And there's knob and tube wiring in huge amounts of houses in the city, and most people don't even know what it looks like to begin with, and then when they –you know, the insurance company asks you to go look for it, they're going to find they got, you know, a piecemeal approach to their electrical in their house in the first place. They got a little bit of this and a little bit of that. It's like plumbing.

They're –you know, part of your plumbing's steel and part of it's copper and part of it's plastic pipe. And, you know, the insurance company wants you to do a calculation. You got to calculate what percentag e. Now, you're not a plumber. You don't know what's what in there, and somehow you got to come up with a percentage of steel plumbing or copper plumbing and the same thing with electrical. This stuff's behind your walls, and you don't know what's behind there. And you've got to tell the insurance company and sign documents to say that, well, there's no knob and tube.

Well, how do you know there's no knob and tube wiring in there? So it's a big –you know, it's a big issue that–and I'm sure the government, I' m sure the ministers had to deal with this. And one of the last points that I wanted to bring up, Mr. Speaker, is a –and I think one of the reasons we are doing this bill now is this whole idea of flooded houses.

There was a incident back during the 1997 flood where flooded homes found their way out into the market, and someone went and bought one of these houses and put it up in–by Birds Hill, put it on a –had actually had it moved all the way up to Birds Hill, put it on a foundation and then just turned around six months later and put the thing for sale as a new house when in fact it had all this flood damage to it. And, of course, this all resulted in a big lawsuit against the agent and the broker and so on and so forth.

And so I think that part of that issue has helped us to move forward a little bit quicker than we might have on this bill. So, Mr. Speaker, I could go on for a lot longer. I have a list here of points I wanted to cover, and the House leader is telling me that we have to kind of restrict the debate a little bit here. So with that in mind and wanting to make sure that I stay on the right side of the House leader, I want to stop while I'm ahead. So thank you very much. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, just a few brief comments o n Bill 70, The Real Estate Services Act.

You know, this is a update in terms of regulation of people who are involved in selling real estate, and I look forward to comments at the committee stage with regard to many specifics. From what I can see, many of the measures here are quite reasonable measures. I note with interest that the section, which is 15(6), which deals with the records to be online, that the NDP's following their usual tradition of emphasizing negative events; that is that they require only that particulars of final disciplinary action against the register–registrant be listed on the act.

You know, on the other hand, there would be many members of the real estate community who are involved in selling real estate who have received recognition or awards or who've got special qualifications, and maybe it would be reasonable to look at listing positive achievements of people who've been involved in real estate and not just the negative things as this government likes to emphasize. * (15:30) I also think that it's worthwhile looking at this issue of what happens if somebody has been–you know, if there have been concerns raised about a

May 26, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2887 particular real estate agent. And I say this because in a different context on another registry, people were not listed until there was final disciplinary action, and the problem was that there was an individual who was practising in a way that he should not have been practising, and it would have been important to–that people were aware of that. In fact, that because it was not –people were not made aware of this problem as soon as it came to light that there were more people who were duped under this circumstance.

So I would suggest that in some fashion this be looked at so that if there is an individual who is, you know, behaving inappropriately and this is found–I don't want to prejudge people before the final disciplinary action is taken –but there would, I think, be appropriate to look at early warnings for people who are trying to engage their services where there's somebody who is doing things which are not appropriate. Well, Mr. Speaker, with just those comments, I look forward to this going to committee stage and to the hearings at committee stage. Thank you. Mr.

Matt Wiebe (Concordia): I appreciate the opportunity to put a few words on the record, especially following the member for Elmwood (Mr. Maloway) who put almost all the words on the record on this issue and, of course, the minister. But I certainly appreciate the expertise and experience that they bring to this debate and appreciate the opportunity myself to join in this debate and speak in support of Bill 70, which I think is an incredibly important step forward with regards to the real estate brokers act and pushing that legislation forward and moving it into the 21st century.

As the minister had mentioned in his comments, we certainly don't live in the era of –well, I think, as he put it, the carrier pigeon or the fax machine or, really, all these technologies that are before my time–but I know as somebody who has been through the process of purchasing a home and purchasing property in the last number of years, seeing how the Internet has become an incredible tool –excuse me– tool that consumers can use as well as folks, real estate brokers that ca n use as well.

It really has changed the way that we look at property and the way that we look at purchasing property, and I think it's something that has been embraced by consumers certainly, but also by the industry. And so, when we, you know, are looki ng at Bill 70, which will create an online listing of all agents that have any disciplinary findings against them, it'll allow Manitobans to easily look up an agent to confirm that they're legitimate and to see if there's been any issues.

This is just another component in the overall vast amount of information that's available to consumers now and giving them really just tools that will help them better navigate the marketplace and to protect them against fraud. You know, I think one of the most import ant parts of this legislation is that–how closely the minister and the department and our government has worked with the Manitoba Real Estate Association. And, you know, I know a lot of real estate agents and folks that I've dealt with in many capacities and, you know, these are great folks.

These are great folks to work with and people I think that are really out there for the right reasons. And so it's really a good thing that the minister and the department have really sought out their advice and their guidance in developing this legislation, and making sure that we're working with them to ensure that the right protections for consumers are on the table and that we can further give folks the confidence that they need when they're making that most import ant purchase, as they say, most important purchase of a person's life and that is their home.

So I think I just want to commend the minister and, of course, the government in the hard work that we've done with regards to this legislation. I think there's a lot of potential here and I think this will just further to make Manitoba's economy a better place and to make our marke

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	40-3-60
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	40th 3rd hansardpdf 60.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	1e9a0b3e224ef25b543339e5e6791e4ee0416df2

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