Manitoba Hansard — 2 December 2015 (Sitting 12, 40th Legislature, 5th Session)

40-5-12

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Fifth Session - Fortieth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Daryl Reid Speaker Vol. LXVIII No. 12 - 1:30 p.m., Wednesday, December 2, 2015 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Fortieth Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALLAN, Nancy St. Vital NDP ALLUM, James, Hon. Fort Garry-Riverview NDP ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley NDP ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thompson NDP BLADY, Sharon, Hon. Kirkfield Park NDP BRAUN, Erna, Hon. Rossmere NDP BRIESE, Stuart Agassiz PC CALDWELL, Drew, Hon. Brandon East NDP CHIEF, Kevin, Hon. Point Douglas NDP CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan NDP CROTHERS, Deanne, Hon. St. James NDP CULLEN, Cliff Spruce Woods PC DEWAR, Greg, Hon.

Selkirk NDP DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood PC EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne Lac du Bonnet PC FRIESEN, Cameron Morden-Winkler PC GAUDREAU, Dave St. Norbert NDP GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Liberal GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach PC GRAYDON, Cliff Emerson PC HELWER, Reg Brandon West PC HOWARD, Jennifer Fort Rouge NDP IRVIN-ROSS, Kerri, Hon. Fort Richmond NDP JHA, Bidhu Radisson NDP KOSTYSHYN, Ron, Hon. Swan River NDP LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas NDP LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. Dawson Trail NDP MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St. Johns NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Flor, Hon.

Logan NDP MARCELINO, Ted Tyndall Park NDP MARTIN, Shannon Morris PC MELNICK, Christine Riel NDP MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East PC NEVAKSHONOFF, Thomas, Hon. Interlake NDP OSWALD, Theresa Seine River NDP PALLISTER, Brian Fort Whyte PC PEDERSEN, Blaine Midland PC PETTERSEN, Clarence Flin Flon NDP PIWNIUK, Doyle Arthur-Virden PC REID, Daryl, Hon. Transcona NDP ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Kewatinook NDP RONDEAU, Jim Assiniboia NDP ROWAT, Leanne Riding Mountain PC SARAN, Mohinder, Hon. The Maples NDP SCHULER, Ron St. Paul PC SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St.

Boniface NDP SMOOK, Dennis La Verendrye PC STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo PC STRUTHERS, Stan Dauphin NDP SWAN, Andrew Minto NDP WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WIGHT, Melanie, Hon. Burrows NDP WISHART, Ian Portage la Prairie PC Vacant Gimli – Vacant Southdale –

423 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Wednesday, December 2, 2015 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Mr. Speaker: O Eternal and Almighty God, from Whom all power and wisdom come, we are assembled here before Thee to fram e such laws as may tend to the welfare and prosperity of our province. Grant, O merciful God, we pray Thee, that we may desire only that which is in accordance with Thy will, that we may seek it with wisdom and know it with certainty and accomplish it perf ectly for the glory and honour of Thy name and for the welfare of all our people. Amen. Good afternoon, everyone. Please be seated.

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 12–The Advisory Council on Workforce Development Amendment Act Hon. Kevin Chief (Minister of Jobs and the Economy): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Education, that Bill 12, The Advisory Council on Workforce Development Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la

Loi sur le Conseil consultatif du développement de la main -d'oeuvre, now be read for the first time. This bill is intended to– An Honourable Member: Not yet. Mr. Chief: –be now read a first time. An Honourable Member: Read the whole thing. Mr. Chief: Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Education, that Bill 12, The Advisory Council on Workforce Development Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la

Loi sur le Conseil consultatif du développement de la main- d'oeuvre, be now read for a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Chief: The bill is intended to expand the role of the advisory council to better support their ability to provide information and advice on the programs, policies and strategies needed to develop Manitoba's workforce. The bill also chan ges the process for appointing members, create term limits and broadens the appointment criteria to ensure the council reflects the diversity of our provincial workforce. Thank you. Mr.

Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] Bill 13–The Education Administration Amendment Act (First Nations, Métis and Inuit Education Policy Framework) Hon. James Allum (Minister of Education and Advanced Learning): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Aboriginal and Northern Affairs (Mr. Robinson), that Bill 13, The Education Administration Amendment Act (First Nations, Métis and Inuit Education Policy Framework), be now read a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Allum: Mr.

Speaker, I'm pleased to introduce to the Legislative Assembly for first reading Bill 13, the First Nations, Metis and Inuit education policy framework act. This policy framework sets out the vision and key activities to support the educational success of First Nations, Metis and Inuit students and to teach Aboriginal perspectives in Manitoba schools. This bill is inspired by the Truth and Reconciliation Commission's call to action and builds on the efforts already under way to both learn and teach the histories, values, knowledge and culture of Manitoba's indigenous peoples. Mr.

Speaker, it is important for all our students to know the history of First Nations, Metis and Inuit people in Manitoba, and I'm humbled to table it today. Mr. Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] Any further introduction of bills? Bill 14–The Communities Economic Development Fund Amendment Act Hon. Eric Robinson (Minister of Aboriginal and Northern Affairs): Yes, I move, seconded by the Minister for Jobs and the Economy, that Bill 14,

424 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Wednesday, December 2, 2015 The Communities Economic Development Fund Amendment Act, be now read a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Robinson: Mr. Speaker, the purpose of this bill is to expand the role of the Communities Economic Development Fund to allow it to provide loans to indigenous entrepreneurs in Winnipeg and to partner on projects in Winnipeg with the First Peoples Economic Growth Fund and the Metis Economic Development Fund, amongst other projects in Winnipeg.

It's currently headquartered, as you know, in Thompson, with offic es in Swan River, The Pas, Gimli and Winnipeg. CEDF businesses and fisher clients have generated over 400– or $840 million in business revenue and $268 million in fishing revenue since 1999. Business clients have paid over $213 million in wages during this time period. We believe that it is time to move forward. Mr. Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] Further introduction of bills? Bill 15–The Child and Family Services Amendment Act (Recognition of Customary Care of Indigenous Children) Hon.

Kerri Irvin -Ross (Minister of Family Services): I move, seconded by the Minister of Aboriginal and Northern Affairs (Mr. Robinson), that Bill 15, The Child and Family Services Amendment Act (Recognition of Customary Care of Indigenous Children); Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les services à l'enfant et à la famille (reconnaissance des soins conformes aux traditions pour les enfants autochtones), be read now for the first time. Motion presented. Ms. Irvin-Ross: Mr. Speaker, it's a historic day here in Manitoba. This bill introduces amendments to The Child and Family Services Act to provide for an additional care option for CFS -involved indigenous children and families called customary care. Customary care is premised on indigenous beliefs that caring for the child is a community responsibility.

Through customary -care agreements, CFS-involved indigenous children can keep cultural ties with their identified community. The bill includes a spectrum of customary -care services, incorporating traditional values and–traditional family and cultural values. The goal is customary care is to invite all parties–indigenous communities, indigenous families and CFS agencies –to come together to design customary-care approaches and engage in a journey towards healing. * (13:40) Mr.

Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] And while I'm on my feet, I want to remind our guests, not only welcoming them to the Manitoba Legislature, but they're not to participate in any of the activities of the Chamber, and that includes applause, so I'm asking for your co- operation in that regard. Any further introduction of bills? Seeing none, we'll move on to committee reports. COMMITTEE REPORTS Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs First Report Mr. Ted Marcelino ( Chairperson): Mr.

Speaker, I wish to presen t the First Report of the Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs. Clerk (Ms. Patricia Chaychuk): Your Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs presents the following– Some Honourable Members: Dispense. Mr. Speaker: Dispense? Dispense. Your Standing Committee on LEGISLATIVE AFFAIRS presents the following as its First Report.

Meetings Your Committee met on the following occasions in the Legislative Building • August 17, 2015 (4th Session – 40th Legislature) • October 6, 2015 (4th Session – 40th Legislature) • November 25, 2015 (5 th Session – 40th Legislature) Matters under Consideration • Recommendation for the appointment of the Conflict of interest Commissioner and Information and Privacy Adjudicator

Wednesday, December 2, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 425 Committee Membership Committee Membership for the August 17, 2015 meeting: • Ms. ALLAN (Chairperson) • Hon. Mr. CHOMIAK • Mr. EICHLER • Mr. GAUDREAU • Mr. GOERTZEN • Ms. HOWARD • Hon. Mr. KOSTYSHYN • Mr. MARCELINO (Vice-Chairperson) • Mr. PEDERSEN • Mr. SMOOK • Mr. WIEBE Committee Membership for the October 6, 2015 meeting: • Ms. A LLAN (Chairperson) • Mr. BRIESE • Hon. Mr. CHOMIAK • Mr. EWASKO • Mr. GOERTZEN • Mr. HELWER • Hon. Mr. MACKINTOSH • Mr. MARCELINO (Vice-Chairperson) • Mr. SWAN • Mr.

WIEBE Committee Membership for the November 25, 2015 meeting: • Ms. A LLAN (Chairperson) • Hon. Mr. CHOMIAK • Mr. CULLEN • Mr. EWASKO • Mr. GOERTZEN • Mr. MARCELINO (Vice-Chairperson) • Mrs. STEFANSON • Mr. SWAN • Mr. WIEBE Motions agreed to at the October 6, 2015 Standing Committee meeting: • THAT a sub- committee of the Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs be struck to manage the process of hiring a new Conflict of Interest Commissioner and Information and Privacy Adjudicator for the Province of Manitoba, under the terms and conditions as follows: (

a) the subcommittee consist of four government members, two off icial op - position members and one independent member; (

b) the subcommittee have the authority to call their own meetings, the ability to meet in camera, and be able to undertake duties it deems necessary in order to fulfil its responsibilities in the hiring process; (

c) the subcommittee may only report back to the Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs with a recommendation that has been agreed to by all members; and (

d) the Committees Branch staff as well as the Legislative Assembly Human Resource Services staff be authorize to attend all meetings of the subcommittee.

Motions agreed to at the November 25, 2015 Standing Committee meeting: • THAT the Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs now meet in camera. • THAT the report and recommendations of the Sub-Committee be received. (in camera) • THAT the Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs recommends to the Lieutenant Governor in Council that Jeffrey Schnoor be appointed as the Conflict of Interest Commissioner and Information and Privacy Adjudicator. (in camera) Sub-Committee Report At the November 25, 2015 meeting of the Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs, the Sub-Committee presented its report.

Meetings: Your Sub-Committee met on the following occasions: • October 6, 2015 at 2:38 p.m. in Room 255 of the Legislative Building • November 6, 2015 at 10:30 a.m. in Room 255 of the Legislative Building • November 19, 2015 at 9:45 a.m. in room 302- 386 Broadway Matters under Consideration: • Recruitment and Selection of the Conflict of Interest Commissioner and Information and Privacy Adjudicator

426 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Wednesday, December 2, 2015 Sub-Committee Membership: Sub-Committee Membership for the October 6, 2015 meeting: • Ms. ALLAN • Hon. Mr. CHOMIAK • Mr. CULLEN • Hon. Mr. GERRARD • Mr. GOERTZEN • Mr. SWAN • Mr. WIEBE Your Sub- Committee elected Ms. ALLAN as the Chairperson and Mr. WIEBE as the Vice-Chairperson during the meeting on October 6, 2015. Sub-Committee Membership for the November 6, 2015 meeting: • Ms. ALLAN (Chairperson) • Hon. Mr. CHOMIAK • Mr. CULLEN • Hon. Mr. GERRARD • Mr. GOERTZEN • Mr. SWAN • Mr.

WIEBE (Vice-Chairperson) Sub-Committee Membership for the November 19, 2015 meeting: • Ms. ALLAN (Chairperson) • Hon. Mr. CHOMIAK • Mr. CULLEN • Hon. Mr. GERRARD • Mr. GOERTZEN • Mr. SWAN • Mr.

WIEBE (Vice-Chairperson) Staff present for Sub-Committee meetings: • Judy Wegner, Executive Director, Legislative Assembly Administration and Finance • Deanna Wilson, Director, Legislative Assembly Human Resource Services • Monique Grenier, Clerk Assistant/Committee Clerk • Andrea Signorelli, Clerk Assistant/Committee Clerk Agreements: Your Sub- Committee reached the following agreement during the meeting on November 19, 2015: • It was agreed to recommend to the Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs that Jeffrey Schnoor be appointed as Conflict of Interest Commissioner and Information and Privacy Adjudicator Sub-Committee Activities: Your Sub-Committee considered applications for the positions of the Conflict of Interest Commissioner and Information and Privacy Adjudicator as follows: • Fifty-two applications were received for the position. • One individual was interviewed for the position on November 19, 2015.

Mr. Marcelino: Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable member for Minto (Mr. Swan), that the report of the committee be received. Motion agreed to. Mr. Speaker: Any further committee reports? TABLING OF REPORTS Mr. Speaker: Seeing none, we'll move on to tabling reports. Hon. Deanne Crothers (Minister of Healthy Living and Seniors ): Mr. Speaker, I'm pleased to table the following report from the Department of Healthy Living and Seniors: The Caregiver Recognition Act Report for 2013- 2015, and inventory of resources for caregivers. Mr. Speaker: Any further tabling of reports?

Seeing none, ministerial statements? MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Craig McIntosh and Lorraine Beck Mr. Ron Schuler (St. Paul ): Today, it is my privilege to honour my good friends and constituents Craig McIntosh and his wife Lorraine Beck, along with their children Kaitlyn and Thomas, who were recently featured in the fall issue of Working Together, published by The Winnipeg Foundation. Craig is a successful Winnipeg businessman and the owner of Acrylon Plastics. He and Lorraine are some of the most humble and honest people that I've ever met.

Over the last 10 years their incredible generosity and support has seen over $500,000 given back to our community. Their focus has been mainly education and helping young people by providing support that will make a tangible difference in their lives.

Wednesday, December 2, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 427 One of Craig's sayings is, and I quote, if you're going to give money, make sure it has a meaningful purpose. Unquote. Craig and Lorraine provide supplemental bur - saries to allow students to attend Balmoral Hall School who otherwise wouldn't have the means. They provide scholarships to help Virden, Manitoba, students face the challenges of entering post - secondary education. Craig and Lorraine also support students at the University of Winnipeg's Collegiate Model School through their 50-student program.

In 2013, with the help of The Winnipeg Foundation, Craig and Lorraine created the Craig McIntosh and Lorraine Beck Fund. Their generosity is now permanently endowed to address future needs as well as immediate granting. Along with education, Craig and Lorraine's fund supports causes close to their hearts such as the Manitoba Opera. To Craig and Lorraine, thank you for everything you have given to those in need. Thank you for strengthening our community. Thank you for your generosity. You truly make a difference in people's lives. Floyd Wiebe Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Mr.

Speaker, Manitobans have just lost a larger -than-life victim advocate and hero in Floyd Wiebe. Karen and Floyd became pillars of strength in the face of disbelief and grief when their son TJ was murdered in 2003 at the age of 20. That tragedy could have been disabling, Mr. Speaker, but the strength of character of Floyd and Karen and their resolve was extraordinary. It really is a true testament to the power of the human spirit that must inspire us all. I was honoured to get to know Karen and Floyd after TJ's death. I was compelled by their passion, Mr.

Speaker, their insights into victimization and the scourge of meth. But I was compelled more so how a couple could turn despair into such strong action for others. They spoke of their vision for drug awareness for youth in Manitoba, and at that time I said, well, good luck, you know, it's –that'll be a long haul, that'll be tough job. But today we look at TJ's Gift Foundation, Mr. Speaker, and the tens of thousands of dollars that it has raised. It really is an extraordinary, extraordinary achievement and triumph for all Manitobans, particularly youth.

Floyd worked very hard for greater victim rights in Manitoba, for gang awareness and, most rece ntly, for restorative justice. I think I can say that Floyd in every way was a big presence, and, in fact, when he was here just a few weeks ago, I joked with him. Floyd said to me one day, well, this is the second time I've seen you today, and I said, wel l, where was the first time? He said, well, when you gave that speech, and I thought, how could I have missed Floyd Wiebe in a crowd? And we laughed about that, Mr. Speaker, just a short while ago. But Mr.

Speaker, I have a great memory as well on snowmobiles looking for TJ's Way; it's a snowmobile trail that they established in Nopiming Park. But on behalf of all members of this House, I'm sure all will want to join in condolences to the family, and we wish Karen and all the family all the strength, Mr. Speaker, as they deal once again with horrid tragedy. Thank you. Mr. Cliff Graydon (Emerson): Mr. Speaker, I rise today to recognize on the sad passing of Floyd Wiebe, a Winnipeg activist who helped at -risk youth avoid illegal drugs and gangs.

I wis h to express our sincerest condolences to his family, especially his wife of 40 years, Karen, and his remaining children, Stacey and Chad. I know his work will leave a deep and lasting impact on our community. I know many of us in this Chamber today have also had the opportunity to work with Floyd and knew the good work that he did. Floyd became a leader and started working with at-risk youths and their families, raising awareness of drugs and gangs, advocating for victims' rights, after his son TJ was tragically murdered in 2003.

Twenty- year-old TJ had been involved in Winnipeg's illegal drug trade, which Floyd blamed for luring TJ to a violent end. In the years following TJ's death, Floyd and Karen created TJ's Gift Foundation to provide financial assistance to students taking

part in pro - grams that promote peer -led drug abuse education. Floyd channelled the energy and emotion from the loss of his son into something positive that benefited the entire community. For that we should be grateful.

428 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Wednesday, December 2, 2015 The Wiebes raised hundreds of thousands of dollars for community organizations and programs to help keep youth away from drugs and gangs. Floyd also spoke at schools about drug awareness and gave his youth–gave youth his cellphone number so he could answer their que stions via text. Floyd said through these text conversations, he stopped some people from trying drugs and answered as many as 8,000 texts a month.

Floyd's mentorship focused on youth to avoiding or exiting gang life, championing outreach programs rather than incarceration; at -risk youth could con- sider alternatives to easy money and deadly crime. He called for government funding for anti -crime strategies, saying there's not enough resources for young people who end up in trouble. His work was both local and with Manitoba Organization for Victim Assistance, the provincial justice system and, as well, extended throughout Canada with him having input into many processes, such as the Canadian Victims Bill of Rights.

He was the first chairperson for the Victim Advisory Council to the Parole Board of Canada, prairie division, where he was successful with endeavours to support victims of homicide. He served as the vice -president of The Compassionate Friends, Canada, for many years. He received the Queen's Jubilee award for his support of the victims and his work to help kids avoid drug involvement. Floyd was very much looking forward to the birth of his first grandchild in just a week and to his second in April, but, sadly, Floyd left us all much, much too early. Mr.

Speaker, I ask leave for a moment's silence in the memory of Floyd Wiebe. Mr. Speaker: Is there leave of the House to observe a moment of silence? [Agreed] Please, members will rise. A moment of silence was observed. * (13:50) Synonym Art Consultation Hon. James Allum (Minister of Education and Advanced Learning): Mr. Speaker, today I'd like to highlight a pair of young people who are helping to make Winnipeg a national centre for artistic expression. Andrew Eastman and Chloe Chafe of Synonym Art Consultation started organizing art shows in my constituency about three years ago.

Beginning by creating–curating the work of local artists for restaurants like Deseo and the former Bistro 7 1/4, they have since expanded their services for some of Winnipeg's most popular shops, res - taurants and bars. Their consultation ef forts transform each business into a trendy spot for young people, while welcoming an emerging artist into the fold. Aside from curating shows, Synonym organizes events to celebrate Winnipeg's vibrant art scene. Another aspect of their work is an artist -in-residence program at The Tallest Poppy restaurant, which sees elements of each artist's legacy on permanent display.

For the last two years, Synonym has been organizing the Wall -to-Wall Mural and Culture Festival. Chloe and Andrew partner with businesses that provide space for an artist to create a mural. The mural is then launched with an event which includes entertainment, participation and art. With this project, Andrew and Chloe try to take art out of the warehouse and into the public environment. The se murals translate the complex Winnipeg identity onto the walls of our city and in turn shape and define that identity.

I've known Chloe and Andrew since they were children and have watched them grow into excep- tional community leaders. Their off -grid ar tistic entrepreneurial adventures are exactly what National Geographic magazine has recently endorsed about Winnipeg. Their work has helped to reinvigorate our young people's pride in our city. Now, the two say that they don't just plop murals down; they ride a wave of entrepreneurial and community spirit and they praise the organizations which partner with them. Chloe and Andrew, you are a credit to our neighbourhood, our community and our province.

I'm very, very proud of you, and I wish you all the success in the future. Manitoba's Holiday Wish List Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, I rise to talk about Manitoba's holiday wish list, a list which has been unfulfilled by this NDP government. Today, 93 children diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder are on a waiting list for treatment in Manitoba. For these children and their families, ABA therapy is a gift, but only for some, as 75 of those families are waiting for the early learning program and desperately hoping their child does not age out of all eligibility. A Liberal government

Wednesday, December 2, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 429 would ensure psychological services such as these would be available for children through medicare. Students in post-secondary education continue to struggle with day -to-day expenses while trying to focus on their studies. For years they have been calling on the government to ease their debt burden. They've been met with a nearly 50 per cent cut in bursary funding and clawbacks on their loan amounts when they work part -time to try to make ends meet. A Liberal government in Manitoba will not punish students for trying to survive.

Manitoba students would receive the gift they've been asking for when a Liberal government converts their provincial student loans into non- repayable grants. And graduates with less d ebt will be able to purchase their first home sooner, when the additional burden of the land transfer tax has been removed by a Liberal government. At this time of year, it's sad that adults in our province have their choices limited by NDP management of liquor sales. Should they find that special something, they pay more for it than their relatives outside the province.

A Liberal government in Manitoba will find the best model for liquor sales to ensure competitive pricing, more choice, opportunities f or small business and appropriate regulation. Today I express a holiday hope shared by many Manitobans that 16 years of Grinch- filled deception will finally end when Christmas arrives late, on April the 19th. Manitobans don't want any more surprise lump s of coal in their stockings from this NDP government; they want real solutions. Thank you. Mr. Speaker: That concludes members' statements. Introduction of Guests Mr.

Speaker: I have a number of guests to introduce prior to oral questions. I'd like to draw the attention of honourable members to the public gallery where we have with us today Craig McIntosh, Lorraine Beck, Kaitlyn McIntosh and Thomas McIntosh, who are the guests of the honourable member for St. Paul (Mr. Schuler). And also in the public gallery we have with us from Synonym Art Consultation, we have Andrew Eastman, Chloe Chafe, along with their families and partners: Dan Chafe, Benjamin Chafe, Jennifer Partridge, Gary Eastman, Joan Weitman, Janna Eastman and Anthony Nelson.

And also seated in the public gallery we have with us Damon Johnston and Marileen Bartlett from the Aboriginal Council of Winnipeg, Fred Ford from the Inuit Association of Manitoba, and Sharon Parenteau from the Manitoba Metis Federation, who are the guests of the honourable Minister of Education. And also seated in the public gallery we have with us today from Rivers Collegiate, we have 21 grade 9 students under the direction of Lesley McFadden, who are the guests of the honourable member for Riding Mountain (Mrs. Rowat).

And also seated in the public gallery we have 12–from Selkirk junior parliament, we have 12 grades 7 to 9 students under the direction of Nadia Gorbay and Matt Nickarz, and this group is located in the constituency of the honourable Minister of Finance (Mr. Dewar). On behalf of all honourable members, we welcome all of you here with us this afternoon. I thank honourable members for their indulgence for the list of guests. ORAL QUESTIONS Mr. Speaker: And we will now proceed to oral questions. Tiger Dam Contract Mandatory Public Disclosure Mr.

Brian Pallister (Leader of the Official Opposition): Well, Manitobans have a reputation for being smart shoppers, Mr. Speaker. And working hard for their money, they want to make the most of it when they spend it, so they shop around. And it shouldn't change when their money is taken by a government, but i t does. And so the government, unfortunately, has not shopped around on these Tiger Dams contracts that they bought, $9 million worth of contracts signed with a party pal and donor without shopping the market. Unfortunately, that wasn't the worst part. The worst part, Mr.

Speaker, was that they didn't disclose that they had failed to shop around; they didn't disclose. According to The Financial Administration Act, it's required that they make public all untendered contracts, but they did not do that. Now we've learned through freedom of infor - mation documents that the government was warned; all deputy ministers were warned, all ministers were warned. Three years ago, again two years ago, they

430 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Wednesday, December 2, 2015 were told failure to do so is a breach of statutory responsibility–failure to do so is a breach of statutory responsibility. Mr. Speaker, t he Minister for Infrastructure and Transportation failed to disclose these documents, Mr. Speaker. Why has the Premier allowed the minister to place himself above the laws of our province? Hon.

Greg Selinger (Premier): I would agree that Manitobans want good value for their money, and that's exactly what we saw with the announcement from the Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation that the rates for drivers are actually going down slightly this year, Mr. Speaker, very significant. And we know that that is just another one of the value-added components of us owning Crown corporations, Crown corporations owned by the people of Manitoba, Crown corporations which provide good value for the people of Manitoba and good jobs for the people of Manitoba.

And the member knows that just this week we passed a new law in Manitoba that requires full disclosure of all tenders, and since the new procedures have been put in place, based on the auditor's recommendations, 93 per cent of all contracts are tendered. Many others are sole -sourced to provide essential services for people, but we're making tremendous progress in this regard, and the member opposite knows it, Mr. Speaker. Mr.

Pallister: Well, I just asked a question about $9 million of untendered contracts and the minister who broke the law, and I get gobbledygook about MPI rates not going up, which is the same thing they always do the year before an election, Mr. Speaker. I'm going to ask the Premier again: If a premier who broke the laws of our –a premier who has aided and abetted a minister who broke the laws of our province and he won't respond to the question, still no disclosure. I'll read from the document again.

A senior official in the Department of Finance says: As a reminder, it's mandatory all departments regularly identify–it's mandatory. Failure to do so is a breach of statutory responsibility. Finance strongly recom - mends that departments review their non -public items and develo p explanations of why they're still there. Three years ago: nothing, no information, not on the list of untendered–not at all, not public, hidden violation. Thirty days, it's supposed to be reported, and not reported.

The minister has zero respect for the law, zero respect for the senior officials in the Finance Department and the Auditor General who was reporting on this. * (14:00) I have to ask the Premier again, and I'd like an answer: Did the Premier do anything at all, or did he do zero to stand up for the laws of our province? Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, another classic double - standard question from the Leader of the Opposition. He had no freedom of information requirements in place when he was in office. They reported on nothing. They took no responsibility for anything they did. They rigged elections.

They did sole-source contracts. They–the largest sole-source contract let in Manitoba was the privatization of our telephone system, which they pushed through this Legislature in the wee hours of the morning. And who got the benefits of that? Their political friends were the major beneficiaries of that. The Auditor General brought out a report on how to improve the system. We put those measures in place in our budget implementation bill. The member opposite, if he was serious about that, should've not held up the budget implementation bill. He held it up for months.

The minute it was passed, we brought in the new regulations: 93 per cent compliance, good value for the money, not only on that but on our auto insurance rates because it's a Crown corporation, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Pallister: Nine million dollars of untendered contracts to a party pal and donor, covered up for years, and the Premier comes out with that answer, Mr. Speaker. There's a second letter that went out from the secretary to the Treasury Board –the secretary to the Treasury Board –was copied to the chair of the Treasury Board, the member for Fort Rouge (Ms.

Howard)–copied to the chair of the Treasury Board, the member for Fort Rouge –and it outlines that it's–the information is not being disclosed. And I asked again that it be disclosed because it's the law. Now, the department the minister's in charge of disclosed dozens of contracts in response to this, but not the six untendered contracts to his pal. It says in the documents: Failure to disclose is a breach of statutory responsibility.

Wednesday, December 2, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 431 It is obvious to anyone who is paying attention here that the Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure failed in his legal obligations to disclose, failed to respect senior officials of the Finance Department, failed to respect members of Treasury Board. Why does the Premier (Mr. Selinger) allow this MLA to conduct himself as if he's above the law? Is the Premier himself incompetent, or is he in on it? Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, this may be the only recycling program the Leader of the Opposition has ever supported i n Manitoba.

He's brought these questions up many times. They've been thoroughly answered by the members of this side of the House. The Conflict of Interest Commissioner made a very clear ruling that the minister was not in a conflict of interest. Mr. Speaker, this is the government that brought in legislation to ban corporate and union donations in Manitoba. The Leader of the Opposition, when he was in office, when he was serving the public, he took corporate donations. He refused to support the legislation that bans corporation and union donations and puts a cap on individual donations.

That is the best guarantee that nobody has undue influence in this province, and he refuses to support that legislation, another classic double standard. He wants to recy cle old questions for which he has had an answer, because he doesn't want to acknowledge we have the lowest unemployment rate in the country, we have the best job creation rate in the country, our economic performance has been very strong at a time of econ omic recession, and he has no plan for the future of Manitoba. Untendered Contracts Public Disclosure Mr. Reg Helwer (Brandon West): Mr. Speaker, at the time of the Tiger Dams controversy,

section 80 of The Financial Administration Act required that untendered expenditures that exceed $1,000 be made public or disclosed not later than a month after the date on which the contract is entered into. Mr. Speaker, why, then, did the Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation (Mr. Ashton) sit on millions o f dollars on untendered contracts and undisclosed contracts to close friends for Tiger Dams for over six years? He not only broke the law, he did so repeatedly and with impunity, a clear example of Manitobans getting more–paying more and getting less. Hon.

Dave Chomiak (Minister of Mineral Resources): Mr. Speaker, this is a variation of the same question the members have asked now for several months, despite the fact that the Auditor General brought in new rules and asked us to implement new rules, which we did, which means contracts over $10,000 were online, available to anyone who can check it, the most advanced in the country. And the only reason members opposite have some of the information they have is because we extended FIPPA rules to provide information.

We extended the rules that allow them to have documents to ask questions, but we also changed the rules on the recommendations of the auditor. And we've put those rules in place. They're dealing with typical Tory double standards. They did it a different way. We're doing it the right way, Mr. Speaker, and they're nitpicking. Mr. Helwer: Mr.

Speaker, with respect to untendered and undisclosed contracts, all depart - ments were directed in 2013 to review their non - public items and develop explanations on why they are still there, essentially make up a story on why you've not followed The Financial Administration Act. This was done while the minister of MIT was responsible for the Procurement Services branch. He was the boss and ultimately responsible. Why did the minister direct civil servants to make up stories to cover up untendered and un- disclosed contracts? Mr. Chomiak: Mr.

Speaker, that statement or so - called question is so full of holes you could drive a Cat–a power tractor through that –[interjection]–or whatever it is. Mr. Speaker, we post all contracts over $10,000 online, for the first time in the history of the province. We banned union and corporate donations, something members opposite would not do so their friends could fund the m and that leader could get up and brag about how much money he was able to fund. We put in place extended FIPPA legislation. We put in place a lobbyist act. We put in place a whistle- blower act, things that are so foreign to members

432 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Wednesday, December 2, 2015 opposite they never did it during their nine mean years in office. Mr. Helwer: Well, Mr. Speaker, I could drive a Caterpillar through the holes in that response, let me tell you. Mr. Speaker, recently, Procurement Services was moved to the Department of Finance. Was it moved because of meddling, obstruction and hiding of tenders and undisclosed contracts by the Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation (Mr. Ashton)? Mr. Chomiak: Mr.

Speaker, the Auditor General made recommendations about untendered contracts, which w e put in place with the assistance of the committee that the member opposite is a –is the chairperson of. When the auditor makes recom - mendations and asks us to move on something, we move on something. We passed legislation that members opposite held up i n this Legislature for months and asked questions about not doing something that we could've passed before.

And I find it very strange that members opposite, who didn't extend FIPPA legislation, who didn't have whistle -blower legis - lation, who did not have lobbyist legislation, who did not have these controls in place, would now question why, Mr. Speaker, why we hadn't done something that hadn't, in fact, been in place. There are many contracts that go untendered for good reasons, like IBM and other relat ed contracts that get extended, particularly in emergencies like flood situations, Mr. Speaker. Sector Council Program Report Review and Recommendations Mrs.

Heather Stefanson (Tuxedo): On September 25th of this year, through a freedom of information request, we asked the government to provide 19 pieces of information, and after more than two months we heard back from the freedom of infor - mation that 18 of the 19 items were rejected. Mr. Speaker, the last request was to provide a copy of the most r ecent sector council review completed by the Department for Jobs and the Economy. Mr. Speaker, can the minister indicate what the recommendations were in that report? Hon. Kevin Chief (Minister of Jobs and the Economy): Mr.

Speaker, I want to thank the member for the question. We, of course, work closely with all of our sector councils throughout the province, Mr. Speaker. In fact, it's one of the reasons that we have one of the strongest economies in the country. They provide a great deal of expertise to us. They help provide advice and support, and we continue to work closely with our sector councils. It's one of the reasons why we have one of the lowest unemployment rates in the country. It's one of the reasons wh y we have the–we have more people working in Manitoba than ever before.

They cover a wide variety of industries as well as we take into account the entire province of Manitoba. We'll continue to work closely with our sector councils. We appreciate their advice and their thoughts, and we'll continue to work closely with them. * (14:10) Mrs. Stefanson: The reason I'm asking for those recommendations, Mr. Speaker, is because the document we received from freedom of information omitted four areas of the rep ort, including the consultation findings, the

summary of the findings and conclusions, the recommendations and the implementation and phasing. These are pretty key areas of the report. Mr. Speaker, can the minister indicate why these key areas were redacted from the information that we received? Mr. Chief: Mr. Speaker, we –as I said, we continue to work closely with our sector councils. We appreciate their advice that they provide. We move on the action items that they ask us to do.

We often partner wit h our sector councils, and one of the things that we know is a big part of what the sector councils talk about is the importance of training, training young people, training a credible demographic of young people. Our –of course, our new Canadians all throughout the province, our young indigenous population, they are part of the reasons why we keep moving on making sure that young women is a strong message; there's no job they can't get. We'll continue to work with our sector councils. We'll continue to pro mote the things that we do publicly around jobs and our economy, Mr.

Speaker, and we're proud of the work that sector councils do. Mrs. Stefanson: Mr. Speaker, I'd like to table a copy of the report entitled Industry Workforce

Wednesday, December 2, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 433 Development Sector Counci l Program, dated November 19th, 2013. This is the copy of the report that we received from freedom of information. And not only were several of the pages of the report entirely blacked out, but 67 of the 106- page report were withheld entirely. Mr. Speaker, can the minister indicate why these pages were entirely withheld? Were they trying to hide the findings of the report, or did the department of–the FIPPA department simply run out of black Sharpie pens? Mr.

Speaker, I would like to know from this minister: What are they trying to hide from Manitobans? Mr. Chief: Mr. Speaker, as I said before, we're proud of the work of the sector councils, and we're proud of the plan that they have, and they support young people. In fact, we're proud of the plan t hat they have for young people. You know, Mr. Speaker, one of the things that we do know is the Leader of the Opposition has a plan for young people. What he wants to do, when students struggle the most, he wants to give up on them.

In fact, here's what the Leader of the Opposition had to say: There are studies that have shown clearly that grade 9 boys are incapable of learning much at all. That's the plan that he has when young people are struggling the most. That's his plan. I ask the member from Tuxedo, does she believe that grade 9 boys are incapable of learning? I ask the member from Lac du Bonnet, those studies that he's talking about, grade 9 boys not being able to learn, Mr. Speaker, has he shown the member from Lac du Bonnet those studies? Our sector council supports young people, Mr. Speaker, and so does this government.

Government Spending Tax Increases Mr. Cameron Friesen (Morden-Winkler): Mr. Speaker, the Throne Speech is a promise of massive overspending to the tune of $6 billion in new spending commitments over the next five years, promises the NDP can't pay for because they can't manage spending and they can't even reduce the deficit. So it is fitting that yesterday the Finance Minister would choose a chocolate shop as the backdrop for his press event, because under the NDP in Manitoba, life is like a box of chocolates; you never know what tax you're going to get. So, Mr.

Speaker, wil l the Finance Minister indicate what Manitobans are going to get as a result of this $6-billion tax plan? What will they tax next? Hon. Greg Dewar (Minister of Finance): Mr. Speaker, I had the great privilege of attending an event yesterday in the beaut iful constituency of St. Boniface at the Constance Popp's chocolate store. And I want to remind the House that yesterday was the fifth anniversary of this Premier (Mr. Selinger) and this government eliminating the small-business tax in Canada. In fact, we were the first province.

In fact, we are the only province in Canada to completely have eliminated the tax on small business. We came into the–into government, it was 9 per cent. That is the legacy of the Leader of the Opposition, Mr. Speaker, one of the highest small - business tax rates–excuse me–in Canada. We've completely eliminated that. January the 1st, 2016, another 2,000 small businesses won't– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable minister's time on this question has elapsed. Mr. Friesen: Mr. Speaker, this Finance Minister can't see the forest for the trees.

What he didn't indicate is he made that same promise four years ago and broke that promise. Mr. Speaker, at yesterday's event with the Finance Minister, he clearly left the door open to additional tax hikes. He was asked directly about his secret plans to increase other taxes to pay for these billion dollars in promises, and the Finance Minister responded by saying, we're reviewing all of our options. Mr. Speaker, it is clear tha t because the NDP breaks its promises to reduce government spending time and time again, they have less and less options to address their massive overspending.

So that –will the Finance Minister admit that when he says he's still reviewing all of his options, what he really means is they're considering which sales taxes they will widen? Will he tell this House: What is he going to raise the tax on when he widens the sales tax next?

434 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Wednesday, December 2, 2015 Mr. Dewar : I want to remind the House that the only individual who is talki ng about raising taxes is the Leader of the Opposition and the member, Mr. Speaker, for Morden-Winkler. Yesterday, Mr. Speaker, we made a commitment to small business that in 2017 we will increase the threshold from $450,000 to $500,000 for small business. This will mean another 3,600 small businesses will not have to pay any tax to the provincial government. In 2017, over 20,000 small businesses will not have to pay tax to this government. Or–fact, Mr.

Speaker, since we've come into office we've cut tax es for businesses between $3.8 billion. That is a record we're proud of. Mr. Friesen: I wonder if he's proud of the fact that Manitobans pay the highest taxes west of Quebec in this country. Mr. Speaker, a few weeks ago the Premier (Mr. Selinger) himse lf left the door wide open to new taxes when he said, and I quote, you have to always stay open to that, end quote, when talking about tax increases. Mr. Speaker, what is it exactly that the NDP believes that Manitobans must stay open to? Is it open to applying the PST to movies?

Is it applying the PST to funerals? Is it applying the PST to home repairs or maybe to gasoline? Will this Finance Minister just come clean and tell Manitobans: What is he going to tax next? What is his secret plan to tax? Becaus e Manitobans are tired of paying more and getting less. Mr. Dewar: The only one talking about increasing taxes in this House is the member opposite, Mr. Speaker.

Yesterday at the announcement Constance Popp said: When small businesses like mine aren't required to 'smay' –to pay small -business tax, that gives us extra capital to hire new staff, invest in equipment or purchase more inventory. She also went on to add, Mr. Speaker: As well, this initiative helps m ake Manitoba a more marketable place to attract new and established business owners to the province. Also remind the member that Elliot Sims said eliminating corporate taxes on Manitoba's smallest businesses has made the system one of the most competitive in Canada for entrepreneurs.

We are on the side of small business. Lower Assiniboine Dike System Location of Maps and Records Mr. Ian Wishart (Portage la Prairie): Mr. Speaker, during the course of assisting my local municipal government in their effort to repair damage on the lower Assiniboine dikes caused by the flooding of 2011, I sent a FIPPA request to Manitoba Infrastructure and Transportation for a copy of the maps for the lower Assiniboine dikes.

Imagine our surprise when we received a response from MIT stating, and I quote, that the Province does not have custody or control of any maps associated with the transfer of the lower Assiniboine River dikes. And I would table that response. Does the Province therefore have no record of this critical piece of flood control infrastructure? Hon. Ron Kostyshyn (Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Development): Definitely the flood of 2011 have left a number of scars for everybody in the province of Manitoba.

I want to acknowledge the forward thinking of the province of Saskatchewan has finally come forward with a member of understanding of to deal with drainage regulations in the province. We often hear members opposite supporting the province of Saskatchewan and the great things they do. I wonder if they're so brave to say that they support the work that has been done in the province of Saskatchewan that causes the watershed problems that we face today. And let us not hope that 2011 does not have a repeat in the province of Manitoba, for all people in the province, whether it's agriculture or urban settings.

I would respect that comments from the member opposite. Mr. Wishart: Mr. Speaker, if they have no knowledge of the lower Assiniboine dikes, I think we're virtually guaranteed a repeat of the problem. Mr. Speaker, knowing that these dikes were in fact constructed by Agriculture and Agri -Food Canada, which was then PFRA, and turned over to the Province in 1999, we then sent a information request to Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada. * (14:20)

Wednesday, December 2, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 435 Imagine our further surprise in receiving confirmation that, quote, all records and maps were transferred to the Province of Manitoba. And I would table that response as well. Can the minister confirm that his department has possession of thes e critical maps, or have they been destroyed? Mr. Kostyshyn : Mr. Speaker, definitely, I think what we talk about of the importance of the watershed organization, that's very key to all of us across the whole watershed.

Let's go back in the Harper era, a nd we talk about the importance of the PFRA organization that was somewhat dissolved when the Conservatives were in power federally, and now we see that the members opposite are complaining that we're not doing enough. Well, let me tell you, if the members opposite believed of what the federal government decision was to eliminate PFRA, which was one of the greatest things in western Canada to be a watershed authority, it's too bad that they never supported the opportunity to go against the wishes of the Harper Conservatives. Are they on the side of the Harper Conservatives?

Do they think like the federal minister of the Conservatives did? I'm sad to hear that's the situation that they chose. Mr. Wishart: I know they like to revise history, but it was, in fact, a federal Liberal government that discontinued PFRA. Mr. Speaker, as you can well imagine, access to detailed maps of dikes and structures on the lower Assiniboine is a very valuable tool for our local municipal governments in both their floodfighti ng and their repair efforts.

I would call on this government to put aside any petty partisanship, in fact, their obvious confusion, and try and find these lost maps to assist the municipalities in their process. Mr. Kostyshyn : Thank you so much for the question. It's obviously a minister from MIT had to put together a task force team to do a regulation study of how the water flows have –in the Portage Diversion and other areas. And I am pleased to say that Mr. Faurschou, who is well known to the members opposite, was part of that team as we talked about dealing with people that are grassroots within that designated area.

And I do respect the opportunity that we work forward together in partnership, but let's have co- operation in the whole watershed sta rting from Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba so we can address these issues and move forward in a positive manner rather than being segregated by provincial boundaries, Mr. Speaker. Climate Change Conference Manitoba Delegation Mr. Shannon Martin (Morris): On October 8th, 2009, under the guise of belt -tightening measures, the NDP government announced a new policy, quote, restricting out-of-province travel, end quote.

Can the Minister of Conservation advise when the NDP rescinded this new policy? Mr. S peaker: The honourable Minister of Conservation. Hon. Thomas Nevakshonoff (Minister of Conservation and Water Stewardship): –travel province. Well, Mr. Speaker, any endeavours of a provincial government to restrain expenditures I would hope and think that the member for the Canadian Federation of Independent Business would be in support of. Why wouldn't he be? So, really, the question is moot, I would have to say.

Obviously, on this side of the House, keeping fiscal restraint over all departments of gover nment is a worthy endeavour, so thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Martin: Mr. Speaker, I have no doubt that the minister has his bags packed as he prepares to share his government's utter failure, as its failure to live up to its own legislated greenhouse emis sion targets, with the delegates in Paris. Speaking of delegates, Mr. Speaker, on Monday, November 30th, the minister stated in this Chamber, and I quote: We will be sending a delegation over to the conference on climate change in Paris. End quote.

Can the minister share with the House who comprises his crack team of climate change specialists accompanying him to Paris? Mr. Nevakshonoff: Well, Mr. Speaker, I have to say I'm encouraged–encouraged–that a member opposite would raise a question about climate change. Perhaps they have come into the third millennium with us and recognized the existence of climate change. It certainly wasn't the case in 2009 when we had legislation before the House here, The Climate

436 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Wednesday, December 2, 2015 Change and Emissions Reductions Act, which was debated, and I was here at that time. Members opposite had the opportunity to debate it, ultimately voted against the legislation, following in the path of their leader, who, when he was a Member of Parliament, also voted against measures to address the issue of climate change. So– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable minister's time on this question has elapsed. Mr. Martin: Mr.

Speaker, the NDP, with great fanfare, announced a government -wide policy restricting all out-of-province travel and then quietly rescind that policy when there's a chance to head overseas. So at a cost of six tons of greenhouse gas emissions, tens of thousands of dollars to attend the Paris conference, we have, among others, we have the minister, we have the deputy minister, we have the Premier (Mr. Selinger), we have the Premier's chief of staff, we have somebody from Cabinet communications and we have the MLA for Wolseley.

Can the minister advise the qualifications of the MLA for Wolseley that allows him to be a provincial representative at the Paris conference, or was his anyone-but-Theresa campaign qualification enough? Mr. Nevakshonoff: Well, once again, Mr. Speaker, the fact that members opposite are now aware of climate change is very encouraging to me personally, because it's going to take a united effort of all people in this House to step up and address the challenge of climate change. It 's probably the greatest challenge the history of–in the history of humankind.

All of us have to acknowledge the importance of addressing these issues, and certainly on this side of the House we are united on that front. The Paris conference is before us, that's true. And this government will do its utmost to garner as much information and knowledge from that conference as we humanly can. And we will go forward and bring that back to the House and report to the people of Manitoba. Student Financial Aid Non-Repayable Grants Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, on Monday the Premier talked about a $33- million loan program for student loans.

The government's numbers have varied daily and are, indeed, much inflated. The Premier, in calculating this number, is ignoring the actual loan amounts repaid bac k each year, as well as the default amounts his government writes off. Regardless of the NDP math, switching the program from loans to non- repayable grants is the right thing to do. Will the Premier please explain why he will not consider switching from loans to non- repayable grants for students at post -secondary education institutions? Hon.

Greg Selinger (Premier): We're always open to new ideas on how to make post -secondary education more affordable while retaining quality for students in Manitoba, which is why we actually put in place a policy that restricts the growth in tuition fees. We have the third lowest tuition fees in the country, Mr. Speaker. Pretty soon we'll have the second lowest tuition fees in the country. We brought forward a graduate tuition tax rebate program, which is available in the third and fourth years.

It allows a student who lives and works in Manitoba to get 60 per cent of their tuition back upon graduating and making their choice to live and work in this province. It's t he best program in the country. We announced interest-free loans for students in Manitoba so that they can pay down the principal without having interest charges build on that. And we offer a very progressive bursary program all across Manitoba, Mr. Spea ker, often matched by private donations as well. And, yes, we have student aid in Manitoba, very significant amount of student aid in Manitoba.

Our program is much better than the program offered by the Liberals. They will actually be doing less for students in their program when they wipe out student aid and the other bursary programs that we already have in place, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Speaker, the Premier is wrong about the Liberal program. He tends to misrepresent things time and time again. If he believes that the interest has been removed from loans, he needs to explain to graduates making their payments every month why they haven't seen any difference in the amount of interest coming off each month.

We already know that the Premier an d his government can't keep track of dollars well. His

Wednesday, December 2, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 437 credibility for any form of financial accuracy is at an all-time low. Regardless, Liberals have committed to do the right thing and to make the change. Instead of trying to misrepresent the Liberal commitment, why doesn't the Premier (Mr. Selinger) make the needed change from loans to grants himself, as a Liberal government would do? * (14:30) Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, the member 'opp' talks about a $20- million program for students. We give $33 million of bursaries right now in the province of Manitoba.

His program would cut the bursary program by $13 million. It's completely ridiculous. It's the same thing he did on the fertility tax credit, a very narrow program, much less than what we're doing for people with respect to that, Mr. Speaker. When you put our bursary program together, our interest-free loan program, our graduate tuition tax rebate program, which is available in third and fourth year, and controls on student fees, Mr. Speaker, and controls on tuition, we have one of the most affordable post -secondary education systems in the country.

And we make sure that it's a high -quality program and available to all Manitobans. University College of the North never existed before. It's now there and in many First Nations and indigenous communities throughout the North. We've put more–during this recession, our increases to post -secondary institutions have led the country, Mr. Speaker. At a time when Liberal governments in other jurisdictions are cutting university funding, we've increased it. Mr. Gerrard: Well, Mr.

Speaker, it would be interesting to know whether the Premier spends more time misleading Manitobans on his own commitments or on misleading Manitobans about Liberal commitments. He's way off the mark, and, indeed, the Premier himself cut bursaries by almost half, as the document I tabled on Monday. The real question is not this NDP's government's shockingly poor math skills; it's whether the best approach to help students deal with massive debt is to move from loans to grants, and it is.

Why is the Premier so resistant to do the right thing and switch from loans to grants, as a Liberal government will do in Manitoba, while leaving the other supports there? Thank you. Mr. Selinger: While the member opposite was a part of the federal Cabinet, the transfer payments for post-secondary institutions, as well as health care, as well as social services, was cut by 39 per cent. That's what he did. He downloaded and wiped out all the support for post -secondary institutions all across the country.

We're the only government, through this recession, which has every single year increased our support for post-secondary education, while having a graduate tuition tax rebate, while having st udent aid, while moving to interest-free loans, Mr. Speaker. We provide very abundant support to students and we will look for even more ways to do that. We're never going to stop in our desire to have a high- quality, accessible and affordable post - secondary education system. Indigenous Children Customary Care Practices Ms. Amanda Lathlin (The Pas): Mr.

Speaker, we know that a child's best interests are served when they are amongst their people and within–and in their own communities, where their identity, culture and well-being can flourish. Mr. Speaker, can the Minister of Family Services please tell us about this historic day and how customary care will allow for indigenous children to remain in their communities and avoid apprehension when it is safe to do so? Also, can the minister also explain how this is an important step on the road to reconciliation? Hon. Kerri Irvin -Ross (Minister of Family Services): Mr. Speaker, today was a historic day in Manitoba.

It was the next phase of devolution. I gathered, had the privilege of gathering with many indigenous leaders, community members, people that represented the CEOs and –as well as the authorities, and we discussed the im portance of amending The Child and Family Services Act to ensure that we could permit and work with communities to support customary care. Customary care has been a practice for gen - erations with indigenous communities. We are working with them to ensure that they can continue to implement that practice, to ensure that they can

438 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Wednesday, December 2, 2015 provide that support to children and families in their community. We're going to work with indigenous communities across this province. We're going to work to better support fami lies and work towards a reduction of indigenous children in care. Biosecurity Concerns Clubroot Contamination Mr. Blaine Pedersen (Midland): I'll table these pictures for the Minister of Agriculture. An Honourable Member: Did you draw them yourself? Mr. Pedersen: That's pretty good for a Minister of Education.

Clearly, there is no biosecurity measures in effect, either with the workers themselves or the cleaning of the equipment between fields. So why is the Minister of Agriculture allowing and, indeed, encouraging the spread of crop diseases like clubroot in canola across Manitoba? Hon. Ron Kostyshyn (Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Development ): Mr. Speaker, obviously the importance of clubroot in the province of Manitoba is taken very seriously by all of us and in the department as well.

I do want to indicate that the staff and the department have worked constantly with agriculture producers, first and foremost of the education and the importance of the minimize spread of clubroot but also the importance of biosecurity, Mr.

Speaker, that obviously in our province we went through the scare of the PED virus, and I want to compliment the MAFRD staff who worked very closely with Manitoba Pork and the producers to minimize the spread and th e economic hardships of the bio- security, and I want to assure the member opposite we as a department and we as a government will continue to communicate with the producers and anybody else involved in that segment. Thank you. Mr. Pedersen: Well, Mr.

Spe aker, only a couple of weeks ago right here in this Legislature the Minister of Agriculture spoke to the Manitoba Canola Growers and emphasizing the importance of the canola industry to the Manitoba economy, and now his government is out there actively spr eading clubroot because they're not doing any biosecurity. Look at the workers' boots. Look at the drilling equipment. There is no cleaning between fields.

These farmers have gone out there and actually kicked these people off their private property because they're accessing not only the easement but they're going across private property to get on the easement, and yet this minister stands up here and he's now –his government is actively spreading clubroot across Manitoba. Why is it that this government is so intent on spreading clubroot across Manitoba? Mr. Kostyshyn: And let me just say, unfortunately, biosecurity is the new swear word of agriculture and throughout the province of Manitoba and Canada.

And I do know that education continues to be the top priority based on–and working with different departments regardless where they fall in, whether it's agriculture or any other industry, whether it's the MTS or if it's even Manitoba Hydro or anybody else. The key important is that there are policies in place that must be made in contact with landowners and they need to be notified of trespassing, and which we believe is still happening and will continue to happen. But the key importance in this, Mr.

Speaker, as long as we communicate in co-operation and provide the importance of biosecurity, we're doing our due diligence. And hopefully members opposite support us on that mission statement for the betterment of agriculture, not only canola but for the overall economy benefit for the province of Manitoba. Mr. Speaker: Time for oral questions has expired. It is now time for petitions. An Honourable Member: Point of order. Point of Order Mr. Speaker: Point of order. The honourable member for Steinbach (Mr. Goertzen), on a point of order. Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Official Opposition House Leader): Mr.

Speaker, it's a long- standing rule of this Assembly and I believe that you as Speaker have ruled that members in this Chamber are to be addressed by either their constituency or by their ministry if they're entitled to a portfolio. I believe if you review Hansard, you will see that the member for the Interlake breached that rule.

Wednesday, December 2, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 439 I would ask that you review Hansard and ask him to apologize to this House when you've had that opportunity, Mr. Speaker. Hon. Thomas Nevakshonoff (Minister of Conservation and Water Stewardship): I apologize to the member opposite. I'll in future refer to him by his constituency. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker: On the point of order raised by the honourable member for Steinbach (Mr. Goertzen), I thank him for raising that point, and I also thank the Minister of Conservation for his apology to the member and to the House.

I think that'll conclude that matter. * * * Mr. Speaker: And while I'm on my feet, it would be helpful, too, that when we're in question period or any time during debate that honourable members pick and choose their words very carefully. I noticed today there were a couple of times where some of the language, while not totally unparliamentary, perhaps, comes very close to the line, and so I'm asking for honourable members to kind of heed this caution to them because I want to make sure that we act with some decorum in this Assembly. That's just for information of the House. PETITIONS Mr.

Speaker: I will now proceed to petitions. Manitoba Interlake–Request to Repair and Reopen Provincial Roads 415 and 416 Mr. Blaine Pedersen (Midland): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. These are the reasons for this petition: The Interlake region is an important trans - portation corridor for Manitoba but, unfortunately, is still dealing with serious underinvestment in infrastructure under this provincial government. Provincial roads 415 and 416 are vital to the region but have sti ll not been repaired or reopened since sustaining damages during the 2010 flood.

Residents and businesses of –in Manitoba Interlake are seriously impacted and inconvenienced by having no adequate east -west travel routes over an area of 525 square miles. This lack of east -west travel routes is also a major public safety concern, as emergency response vehicles are impeded from arriving in a timely manner. * (14:40) We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge that the provincial government repair and reopen the provincial roads 415 and 416 to allow adequate east-west travel in the Interlake. And this petition is signed by M. Bruce, N. Neufeld, R.

King and many more fine Manitobans. Mr. Speaker: In keeping with our rule 132(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to have been received by the House. Applied Behavioural Analysis Services Mrs. Leanne Rowat (Riding Mountain): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba.

And these are the reasons for this petition: The provincial government broke a commitment to support families of children with a diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder, including timely diagnosis and access to necessary treatment such as applied behavioural analysis, also known as ABA services. The provincial government did not follow its own policy statement on autism services which notes that–notes the importance of early intervention ABA for children with autism. School learning services has its highest ever waiting list, which started with 45 children.

The waiting list is projected to keep growing and to be in excess of 80 children by September 2016. Therefore, these children will go through the biggest transition of their lives without rece iving ABA services that has helped other children achieve huge gains. The provincial government has adopted a policy to eliminate ABA services in schools by grade 5 despite the fact that these children have been diagnosed with autism which still requires therapy. These children are being denied necessary ABA services that will allow them access to the same educational opportunities as any other Manitoba children.

The current provincial government policy now imposed on the ABA service provider will now

440 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Wednesday, December 2, 2015 decrease the scientifically proven, empirically based and locally proven five -year program to a con- sultative model that will now have over 200 children wait-list and allow only a small portion of children to access these new services. Waiting lists, decre ases in services and denials of treatment are unacceptable. No child should be denied access to or eliminated from eligibility for ABA services if their diagnosis still remains and their need still exists.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request that the Minister of Education and Advanced Learning consider making funding available to eliminate the current waiting list for ABA school -age services, maintain the current successful program and fund true ABA services for individuals diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder until they reach age 21. This petition is signed by K. Butterfield, V. McGregor, B. Swaenepoel and many other fine Manitobans. Provincial Trunk Highway 206 and Cedar Avenue in Oakbank–Pedestrian Safety Mr. Ron Schuler (St. Paul): Mr.

Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) Every day, hundreds of Manitoba children walk to school in Oakbank and must cross PTH 206 at the intersection with Cedar Avenue.

(2) There have been many dangerous incidents where drivers use the right shoulder to pass vehicles that should have stopped at the traffic light waiting to turn left at this intersection.

(3) Law enforcement officials have identified this intersection as a hot spot of concern for the safety of schoolchildren, drivers and emergency responders. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge that the provincial government improve the safety at the pedestrian corridor at the inter -

section of PTH 206 and Cedar Avenue in Oakbank by considering such steps as highlighting pavement markings to better indicate the location of the shoulders and crosswalk, as well as installing a lighted crosswalk structure. This is signed by S. Mooney, P. Kornelsen, P. Hoogmoed and many, many other fine Manitobans. Manitoba Interlake–Health Care Mr. Ralph Eichler (Lakeside): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) There is a severe shortage of emergency and regular medical care in the Interlake region of Manitoba.

(2) The staffing levels within such units such as hemodialysis, chemotherapy and emergency - outpatient services at the Johnson Memorial Hospital in Gimli are below operational levels.

(3) This lack of essential front -line services is causing patients to travel 45 minutes away for regular and emergency life -saving treatments, often at their own expense.

(4) This highway medicine approach places the welfare of residents and visitors to this community at further risk.

(5) The shortage creates additional strain to the limited rural ambulance services and results in all Manitobans paying more and getting less. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to consider implementing a plan to cover the immediate shortfall in staffing levels and to develop a long- term solution to provide timely and quality health care to the residents in the Interlake. This petition is s ubmitted on behalf of M. Johnson, R. Vanderkerkore, N. Perry and many other fine Manitobans.

Proposed Lac du Bonnet Marina–Request for Research into Benefits and Costs Mr. Wayne Ewasko (Lac du Bonnet): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. And these are the reasons for this petition:

(1) Lac du Bonnet is a recreational area with great natural beauty.

Wednesday, December 2, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 441

(2) The Winnipeg Rive r is one of the greatest distinguishing cultural and recreational resources in that area.

(3) Manitoba marinas increase recreational access and increase the desirability of properties in their host communities.

(4) The people of Lac du Bonnet overwhelmingly support a public harbourfront marina in Lac du Bonnet. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to consider collaborating with other levels of government to research the economic benefits and cons truction costs of a marina in Lac du Bonnet. This petition is signed by B. Shirtliffe, G. Smith, L. Cumming and many other fine Manitobans, Mr. Speaker. Request to Reduce Speed Limit along Road 9E, La Salle, Manitoba Mr. Shannon Martin (Morris): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. These are the reasons for the petition:

(1) The community of La Salle, Manitoba, continues to see significant residential growth, including new developments along Road 9E.

(2) As part of this growth, additional active transportation improvements are being constructed by the RM of MacDonald, including the installation of walking paths.

(3) One of these paths is less than 10 feet away from Road 9E, a gravel road where the curr ent speed limit is 90 kilometres per hour.

(4) Families and individuals, including those with small children and pets, are concerned about the safety of using walking paths with high -speed traffic being within such close proximity.

(5) Interconnecting roads, including Road 47NE and Vouriot Road, have speed limits of 70 kilometres an hour and 50 kilometres an hour respectively. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation to recognize the potential danger of allowing high- speed travel on a gravel road immediately adjacent to a walking path.

(2) To request that the Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation consider reducing the speed limit along Road 9E similar to Road 47N E and Vouriot Road. And this petition is presented by P. Rodgers, K. Redys, M. Fraser and many other fine Manitobans. Mr. Speaker: Any further petitions? GRIEVANCES Mr. Speaker: Seeing none, we'll move on to grievances. The honourable member for La keside, on a grievance? Mr. Ralph Eichler (Lakeside): Yes, Mr. Speaker. Today I rise, Mr. Speaker, on a grievance.

First I'd like to draw attention to the government a recent request from the residents of Sunrise Lodge North in Arborg. They've asked me to relay to this government, in particular, that some of the members believe to be these members from the government like sasquatch. They hear that they have an MLA, but they don't ever see him. Mr. Speaker, the residents would like to ask why this government has turned off the cable to their TV. It comes on, it works; there's no channels to watch.

I'd be more than happy to take anyone on that side of the House to Arborg and have them explain why this NDP government can spend $6 million more per day that they have coming in but cannot pay $3 per day to give seniors cable so they can watch TV in the common area if they so like. Secondly, I'd like to draw attention to the remarks put on the record yesterday by the member from the Interlake about the flood of 2011. This very member told the farmers, ranchers, families, business owners and tourists that it could have been worse. This is shameful, Mr.

Speaker. * (14:50) We on this side of the House stood beside our friends, our neighbours, to help sandbag, move furniture, open roads, loan them vehicles, trailers and tractors. We are proud that we on this side of the House stood with those impacted by the flood of 2011.

442 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Wednesday, December 2, 2015 We asked this NDP government hundreds of questions about flood protection and compensation. The Selinger government promised multi -year flooding in compensation. Well, that didn't work out either, Mr. Speaker, another broken promise by this NDP government. And we know how much each of those businesses, families and those impacted by t he flood had banked on that promise coming to 'fruitition' in regards to the flooding of 2011. I also want to talk about the Gimli hospital and the lack of staff to do dialysis for Gimli and the surrounding area.

This Selinger government issued a press release, which I would like to table here today, in January of 2011 that things were on track for the $4.8-million unit to treat patients. Well, no wonder the member for Gimli jumped this sinking ship and announced that it didn't last very long at all. The member from Charleswood and myself have asked questions on this time and time again, and no one had been in place unit to do dialysis. We put the question to the public about the lack of service in that area.

With a very short time, we had over 350 signatures on a petition asking this Selinger government to implement a plan, to develop a long - term plan, to reopen, to continue to keep open the unit in Gimli. I'd like to table the remaining petitions for this House as well. And I'd like to ask the Minister of Health (Ms. Blady) to keep the promise that this ND government made to the fine folks in the Interlake. We know that every member opposite went to door to door in the last election and they said no new taxes.

If anyone challenged them, this Selinger government said it was nonsense, that they would not raise taxes. We saw more new taxes in –within just weeks of the election that no government has ever brought in before. Then they brought in a 14 per cent increase in the PST and subsequently took the right of Manitobans' right to vote on that very increase. Shame on this government and every member opposite. Now, Mr. Speaker, I want to talk about hydro and how the Selinger government misled the real owners of Manitoba Hydro, the ratepayers of Manitoba Hydro.

Once again, every member opposite went door to door and told Manitobans that Bipole III and Keeyask would not cost ratepayers 1 cent, the cost would be built into the cost of selling hydro to the US market, which is the way it should have been. However, that didn't work out either. This Selinger government stuck to its –stuck it to the ratepayers for the next 20 years, as we on this side of the House found out that the government had misspoke and we found that the ratepayers are the ones that would bearing the costs. This government obviously cannot be trusted.

Hydro rates are going to double if not triple under the leadership of this government. And today, Mr. Speaker, we saw very clearly that a number of those rate increases are guaranteed by Mani toba Hydro. We've seen very clearly that the Public Utilities Board has been presented with docu- mentation to ensure that those rates will be continuing to go up by 3.95 per cent for the next 20 years, thus on the back of the ratepayers of Manitoba. Unfortunately, we also saw Bipole III, the longest route that has been built in the history of this province, it's a route that was not approved by Manitoba Hydro at all.

It was approved by this government and they forced it on all Manitobans. And, unfortunately, it's a legacy this government's going to have to live with. And we have an opportunity to change this route if the government would listen to those ratepayers of Manitoba, the real owners of Manitoba Hydro.

And, with that, we know that the opport unity–I know tomorrow there's a resolution being brought forward by the member from La Verendrye that is going to be very clear about the opportunity for the government to stand up and talk about the route going into Minnesota, Wisconsin, on the route that they had decided to take down through some of the busiest corridor within the province of Manitoba. And I know that the minister is going to have an opportunity to correct the record on what he put on the record last Monday in regards to about the decision being made on that particular route. So, Mr.

Speaker, we know we have this opportunity in this House to debate issues that we feel is importance, and we certainly take this opportunity to bring this grievance forward, and I know that with the help of a ll Manitobans, a change for the better is coming. Mr. Speaker: Are there any further grievances? ORDERS OF THE DAY GOVERNMENT BUSINESS Mr. Speaker: Seeing none, we'll move on to orders of the day, government business.

Wednesday, December 2, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 443 Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Official Opposition House Leader): Can we take a brief recess to await the Government House Leader? [interjection] We can't? Can we take a brief recess, Mr. Speaker? And we'll have the bells ring for one minute in advance of the House coming back. Mr. Speaker: Is there l eave of the House to have a brief recess, with the understanding that when the House is ready to come back into order, we'll ring the bells for one minute? [Agreed] The House is now in recess, pending the call to order.

The House recessed at 2:56 p.m. ____________ The House resumed at 2:58 p.m. Mr. Speaker: We'll now call the House back to order. We're under orders of the day, government business. House Business Hon. Dave Chomiak (Government House Leader): Mr. Speaker, I'd like to announce the following standing committees will meet as follows: Monday, December 14th, 2014, at 9 a.m., the Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs to con - sider the Annual Report of the Children's Advocate for the fiscal year ending March 31st, 2014, and the Annual Report of the Children's Advocate for the fiscal year ending March 31st, 2015.

And on Monday, December 14th, 2014, at 10:30 a.m., the Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development to consider the Annual Report of the Manitoba Poverty Reduction an d Social Inclusion Strategy (ALL Aboard) for the fiscal year ending March 31st, 2014, and the Annual Report of the Manitoba Poverty Reduction and Social Inclusion Strategy (ALL Aboard) for the fiscal year ending March 31st, 2015.

And on Monday, December 14th, 2015, at 2 p.m., the Standing Committee on Public Accounts to consider Auditor General's Report –Follow-up of Recommendations: Waiving of Competitive Bids, November 2015; witnesses to be called, minister and deputy minister of Finance, minister and deputy minister of Infrastructure and Transportation.

Wednesday, December 16th, 2015, at 2 p.m., the Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs to consider the Annual Report of Elections Manitoba for the year ending December 31st, 2011, including conduct of t he 40th Provincial General Election, October 4th, 2011; Permanent Voters List Study – Report dated June 2013; Annual Report of Elections Manitoba for the year ending December 31st, 2012, including the conduct of the Fort Whyte by -election, September 14th, 2012; Annual Report of Elections Manitoba for the year ending December 31st, 2013; Annual Report of Elections Manitoba for the year ending December 31st, 2014, including conduct of the 2014 Arthur-Virden and Morris by-elections. * (15:00) Mr.

Speaker: Just for clarity, to make sure that I'm clear on this, on the first two items that were referenced in the announcement, it was indicated a year that is different. It was indicated as 2014. Was the intent to indicate the Monday, December 14th, 2015, 9 a.m. mee tings and 10:30 a.m. meetings, the honourable Government House Leader? Mr. Chomiak : Mr. Speaker, I apologize. Correct that to change the date to 2015 at 9 a.m. and 2015 at 10:30 a.m. Mr. Speaker: Okay. I thank the honourable Government House Leader for the clarification.

It has been announced that the standing committees will meet as follows: Monday, December 14th, 2015, at 9 a.m., the Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs to consider the Annual Report of the Children's Advocate for the fiscal year ending March 31st, 2014, the Annual Report of the Children's Advocate for the fiscal year ending March 31st, 2015.

And also on Monday, December 14th, 2015, at 10:30 a.m., the Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development will consider the Annual Report of the Manitoba Poverty Reduction and Social Inclusion Strategy (ALL Aboard) for the fiscal year ending March 31st, 2014, and the Annual Report of the Manitoba Poverty Reduction and Social Inclusion Strategy (ALL Aboard) for the fiscal year ending March 31st, 2015.

And on Monday, December the 14th, 2015, at 2 p.m., the Standing Committee on Public Accounts is to consider the Auditor General's Report –Follow- up of Recommendations: Waiving of Competitive Bids, November 2015, and the witnesses to be cal led

444 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Wednesday, December 2, 2015 include the minister and deputy minister of Finance and the minister and deputy minister of Infrastructure and Transportation.

And also on Wednesday, December 16th, 2015, at 2 p.m., the Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs is to consider the Annu al Report of Elections Manitoba for the year ending December 31st, 2011, including the conduct of the 40th Provincial General Election, October 4th, 2011; Permanent Voters List Study–Report dated June 2013; Annual Report of Elections Manitoba for the year ending December 31st, 2012, including the conduct of the Fort Whyte by-election, September 4th, 2012; the Annual Report of Elections Manitoba for the year ending December 31st, 2013; and the Annual Report of Elections Manitoba for the year ending December 31st, 2014, including the conduct of the 2014 Arthur-Virden and Morris by-elections.

That's for information of the House. The honourable Government House Leader, on further House business. Mr. Chomiak: Yes, Mr. Speaker. Will we resume– when we resume s econd reading debate on Bill 7, then we will be doing second reading on bills 4, 3, and 5. Mr. Speaker: We'll now be calling bills for debate in the following order, starting with Bill 7, followed by Bill 4, then Bill 3 and then Bill 5. DEBATE ON SECOND READINGS Bill 7–The Public Schools Amendment Act (Protecting Child Care Space in Schools) Mr.

Speaker: We'll start now by calling debate on second reading of Bill 7, The Public Schools Amendment Act (Protecting Child Care Space in Schools), standing in the name of the honourable member for Morden -Winkler, who has 27 minutes remaining. Mr. Cameron Friesen (Morden-Winkler): And I'm pleased to continue my remarks on Bill 7, protecting child care spaces in schools. And yesterday when the 5 o'clock chime w ent, I was conveying to you that this is an important bill in areas like the one I represent of Morden -Winkler, because this is a growing community. And yesterday the member for Lac du Bonnet (Mr.

Ewasko) was putting onto the record comments of the same wi th respect to other jurisdictions in Manitoba. And the member from Lac du Bonnet was talking about the need for a nuanced approach. He was talking about the fact that–and he mentioned these same comments and concerns when he spoke on an earlier bill, Bill 2, talking about the fact that communities are not all the same and their needs are not all the same when it comes to education, and we know that one of the great variables when it comes to some communities in Manitoba is the variable of population growth. And so, yes, Mr.

Speaker, now I remember exactly where I was at when that chime had sounded, and that was we were talking about the tremendous growth that areas like my own, like the area I re - present, have seen in the last number of years. In fact, I can report to this House that it was in 2011 when I was elected; I believe that was the year when the new Stats Canada data came up–came out for the province of Manitoba and, indeed, for the rest of the country. And we were able to measure at that time population growth in Manitoba communities going back five years, and I was astounded.

We all had a quite informed idea that the population was increasing rapidly in our area, but it was evidence that we were taking in anecdotally. And we could see it in new housing starts, we could see it in our community in other ways, new faces in the com - munity. We saw in terms of increased traffic on city streets. We heard it, you know, through real estate agents and school boards and, indeed, we did see it in terms of enrolment in schools. Ms.

Jennifer Howard, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair But when that data was released, then we got a better sense of the real–the data with respect to those population changes. And I can indicate to this House, and I believe I have done so before, that the population for the city of Morden increased in just the space of five years by 20 –I believe it's 20.7 per cent. I would have to go back and check the exact numbers.

I believe for the city of Winkler, that had itself experienced tremendous growth the previous time those growth figures had been tabled and conveyed to Canadians, Winkler was still up at around 18 per cent growth over five years, and the RM of Stanley I believe exceeded 30 per cent growth. So, the Minister of Education, we have continued to convey to him that we have challenges in our community –in our communities that perhaps other areas of Manitoba don't share to the same extent. And I would acknowledge that areas like Brandon are experiencing the same kind of growth.

I know that the city of Steinbach is experiencing

Wednesday, December 2, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 445 similar kinds of growth. And I can recall still when I was in the teaching profession, and now that's getting to be longer and longer in the rear -view mirror, but when I was still in the classroom, I remember the frustration that was being expressed by trustees and board chairs in my communities. And I actually used to teach in Steinbach, and I don't know if I've ever actually disclosed that to the House. I wasn't sure I wanted to disclose that to the House.

No, I had the pleasure of teaching in Hanover School Division for six years, and I know that those trustees expressed frustration at that time, not with the Public Schools Finance Board per se because we know that they've got a job to do, but with the fact that the formula by which decisions are made to build new schools was not more flexible, didn't entertain variables more–didn't entertain those variables better in respect of population growth. So, in esse nce, you would get on a list and the PFSB would indicate that you had been shortlisted and that they understood that you were on the list for a new school.

But the list was –for all working purposes, it was static and it was chronological and it was like the order in which you were received on the list you went to the bottom. And incrementally you would rise by step until finally at some point in time hopefully that school was built. Now that formula, I understand now, has been revised.

And it's been revised in large part due to the successful efforts of communities like my own to engage in conversation with–respectfully with the Education Minister, with the deputy minister and also with the PFSB to indicate there needs to be flexibility to be able to under stand that communities can grow very rapidly, very quickly. And part of that is the success of our MPNP program, our Manitoba Provincial Nominee Program. In this province that program has been really largely responsible for some of the most impressive growth that we have seen really over the last 20 years.

I would remind the House it was our party who built that program and I have been pleased to see that the current government has continued the efforts that were first put in place by members, including the member for River East (Mrs. Mitchelson) and others at that time. That program has succeeded in bringing large numbers of new residents, and sometimes I say new Canadians, but we must remember that when they come here, when they arrive in our communities, they aren't new Canadians at that time and they need to go through that whole process to become new Canadians.

But that program has been in large part responsible to bring new people to our communities. * (15:10) Now, when they're there, yes, they need those services to be able to support them there, and our communities of Morden and Winkler and the RM of Stanley, we learned this lesson.

And it was a hard lesson for us, going back 10 years when manu- facturers in our community, manufacturers like –and as soon as I start a list I know I will leave off names– but Grandeur Housing and Decor Cabinets and Convey-All Industries and Meridian Manufacturing, Triple E, Huron Window and so many others, 3M Canada, these kinds–Farm King, Madam Deputy Speaker. So ma ny businesses like these –oh, I didn't even mention Load Line and Lode King and other area businesses –businesses like this were telling local officials to bring more residents.

And then, of course, when they started to arrive in large numbers, what we real ized is that we had real challenges to support them in the community, challenges in respect of housing, challenges in respect of affordable housing, challenges in respect of classroom space, challenges in respect of resources that would help them successfully transition into the community. And I can't say enough about our local settlement services office. And that's just one of the agencies that has rose up to meet that challenge.

And Laurie Sawatsky and her staff, with whom I've had the opportunity to meet many, many times, are just second to none when it comes to delivering language services and delivering very practical services to newcomers. And I would imagine, Madam Deputy Speaker, it's probably no different in your own neigh- bourhoods, where you re present in Fort Rouge, where you have new people coming to the com - munity. And it's easy for our government to say, oh, okay, we've done it now.

But we know that there are agencies and groups and local community groups and church groups who say, we underst and we have a role in here to help people transition into community. That is so important. It's so important in an area like mine that used to be far less diverse and is becoming more and more diverse. As a matter of fact, I accompanied my wife Shelley–we were at Superstore on Friday last week – and I was amazed at the number of foreign languages that I could not immediately discern. And those foreign languages, you know, used to be German and

446 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Wednesday, December 2, 2015 Spanish. And now, I mean, we have so many people in our communi ties. Filipino community is growing terrifically. The Congolese community is growing in the Winkler -Morden area. We have so many different nations represented from eastern Asia, from eastern Europe. We have a whole new set of immigrants coming from place s like Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan. And they need supports and community as well.

So those early efforts were encumbered by community groups who really didn't fully appreciate–maybe I should say fully understand the nature and the extent of the challenge that would be theirs when these newcomers came. But anyway, I would want to say for the purposes of this bill that I want to stress that our communities have been successful. And I would say that our school boards have been successful, and I know that even t he member for St. Vital (Ms. Allan) is often glowing in her praise for the members of my community who are on school board trustee positions.

I know that the relationships between some of those school board members at GVSD go back a long way with her. And it was their persistent and respectful advocacy that helped convey to this NDP government that we –our schools could wait no longer, that with some schools in excess of 30 huts in the back of the school, we simply had our back against the wall. And it was important for this government to understand that. Our communities have been successful. Our trustees have been successful. Our school board superintendents have been successful.

This bill would seem to underestimate the capabilities of local communities to do the job in delivering education. Madam Deputy Speaker, this Bill 7 includes a provision that effectively would locate again more power in the minister's office in a role of an overseer with respect to child -care spaces in schools. And we understand in this place and, I think, more and more, Manitobans are coming to understand that there is policy in place in our province that requires that when new schools are built, that child-care space will be located in that school.

Now, Madam Deputy Speaker, I would want to be clear with my comments. I want to be crystal clear that I support every effort of our communities to create child -care spaces, and I say that knowing that, in this province, child- care wait times have accelerated under this NDP government. As a matter of fact, I think that at any one time the number of people waiting for child -care placements can be in excess of 1,000. I think–sorry, 12,000. That's right because I'm remembering now the mayor from Morden, Ken Wiebe, telling me recently that even in Morden the wait-list is over 500.

So let me say first off that it is important to have child-care spaces available in community. Now, of course, that becomes more difficult when an NDP government is restricting and restricting the ability of family-based child-care units to actually do business. These are hard -working entrepreneurs, moms and dads, men and women, who are saying, you know what, I have an interest in this, I have some acumen in this, I am trained in this, I can safely deliver these places.

And more and more it's become a case in this province that the government has ideologically driven an agenda that says no to those spaces and says yes to these. Well, we have said as a party and our own critic has said the whole way along is, why don't you just allow the whole system to succeed? Why don't you drive both of those agendas? Why do you have to ideologically fixate in such a way to create winners and losers? And who pays the price of that kind of rigid ideology?

It's parents whose kids cannot get into daycare spaces, because one thing we know and that is, even if on a go- forward basis we understand that this agenda will create spaces in schools, we understand, at the same time, we cannot build schools quickly enough to attend to all the child -care needs. So I'm disappointed, Madam Speaker, that the NDP government has not done more to drive both of those conversations. Indeed, a month or two ago, when the member for Portage la Prairie (Mr.

Wishart) raised this issue, well, then again, the government, who has nothing left but the ability to create fear, they begin to agitate. They begin to spread stories saying that our party wants to somehow privatize the daycare industry when, really, they all understand it, and perhaps it's just a good headline for them but they understand what we're saying: don't create winners and losers when it's Manitobans who pay the price.

Create a robust system of both types that both recognizes that the Province has a role and that communities have a role, because what I can tell you, Madam Deputy Speaker, is that communities are ready to step up. As a matter of fact, right now, at this time, the City of Morden has spent the money, has allocated space, has addressed all the logistical issues and they cannot ge t approval to open a daycare that would significantly attend to the need in

Wednesday, December 2, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 447 our community. Why not? Because the minister doesn't know the square footage of the system. I'm hearing that the member for Lac du Bonnet (Mr. Ewasko) saying the same thing here, is that why does the Minister of Education feel that he has a role to micromanage this system when we have more and more trustees telling us that they have less and less of an adequate role when it comes to the delivery of education in communities? There are so many areas of function that are now overseen by the overseers in the Minister of Education's department.

It's not unlike other areas of government but the point is in my community –and I'm confident that in the, you know, community of Midland and the community of Spruce Woods and the community of Portage la Prairie, and all across Manitoba, we have capable trustees who take their role very seriously. We have capable superintendents who take their role very seriously and who are ready to do what is in the best interest of education in their own community. This is the very principle of – I'm forgetting the name of the principle, Madam Speaker, but it's got a great name. And it's –I'll think of it in just a moment.

It –oh, I knew it. It's the principle of subsidiarity, and subsidiarity would say that the agency in the best position to oversee and administrate is the agency most closely related to the issue and the challenge. In a nutshell, that is what the principle would say. * (15:20) And yet this kind of thinking, this kind of legislation runs over that principle. It says no, no, no. We know best. This is –we'll locate the power here and communities will have to go back to the minister's office. Well, we know how that goes. These things take time. All of these linkages take time.

The minister, I would imagine, is busy in his role. I imagine there is demands on his time that are significant. Here is one small area where government could have said, we trust you; we know you; we have relationship with you. If there's a problem, we will address it in the specific. But this is like so many issues in Manitoba, and I don't want to digress, and I don't want to test the – your speaker, Madam Deputy–your patience, Madam Deputy Speaker. But it reminds me in some res pects of another issue that is near to the hearts of our communities, and that has to do with police boards.

Because it's exactly that area of interest whereby we now have more and more–we have members of our – the public who are seconded to–or they are, I g uess, appointed to police boards where they serve and they oversee police function in community. The problem is that there wasn't evidence that there was widespread problems when it came to municipal policing. Now, you and I would both remember, and other members of this House would remember, there have been some issues in respect of municipal policing in this province, some significant issues. But I submit to you they were isolated issues.

And rather than address an issue in isolation, it is a government that lacks enthusiasm, a government that lacks ideas, a government that lacks ingenuity, that seeks to make wholesale solutions in the aggregate, in the macro. Maybe it's easier. Maybe it seems easier at the time. But I would submit it will be no less easy in its working out because it will demand time. It will demand time of the minister.

It will demand time of the deputy minister, an individual that we know –and I know that deputy ministers never like to have their names raised in this House –but an individual who is very busy and who has significant challenges in his role. I can't imagine he will welcome this. I can't imagine the assistant deputy ministers will welcome this additional role. I sometimes wonder, when legislation hits our desks as legislators and we read the

preamble and we read the rationale, we wonder what is the issue in specific that has driven, again, this wholesale knee-jerk response. And I was asking my colleague, the member for Lac du Bonnet , what is the issue that has driven this response? And, honestly, we can form some theories about what it is, but we're not sure. We're not sure why the minister thinks this is the solution. Madam Deputy Speaker, we have schools that have some huge problems, some huge challenges, even now in my community.

As a matter of fact, I was just in contact with two superintendents, the superintendent for Garden Valley School Division and the superintendent for Western School Division, just in the last two days.

And they're expressing to me that they continue t o convey to the minister and to that department, and I would say they work very effectively, both of those communities, taking an approach that I think is positive, that is based on relationship building, that says it doesn't matter who's in power in the province; we must work with everyone because what we take very seriously is our role to deliver education in the best manner possible with the resources that we have, with the teachers that we employ, with the parent groups with whom we advise in the spaces that we have.

448 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Wednesday, December 2, 2015 But I would say, Madam Deputy Speaker, members of this Legislature might not know that right now, GVSD, Garden Valley School Division, is still using 44 of the 55 portable units in that school division. They were up to 55 portable units at one point, and it was aerial photography, independently done, sent to media, that finally drove the NDP to prioritize the building of a new high school in Winkler because it looked–I mean, some people even said that it looked like some kind of a camp that was built behind this school.

It was a labyrinth of buildings that posed a host of logistical problems. I can't imagine what 55 portable units means in the case of –what is that expression they always use when they talk about an unapproved visitor to a school who could pose a threat to school safety? And it's not the member for Kildonan (Mr. Chomiak), I know that. There's another name that they give it. But it's like that word they give to intruders.

And when those things happen–and we know they're very, very serious when they occur, and schools have these lockdown procedures that occur –then I know at that point in time they lock and secure the outside doors. Imagine what this means when you're a school with 55 portable units. Now GVSD is still using 44 of those units. These schools have logistical issues to address that the Minister of Education can't possibly attend to. He can't possibly understand the nuance of those things, and that is saying nothing against the capabilities of the minister.

If I was the Minister of Education, I can't imagine I would want to be involved in that minutia of detail. I would say, don't bring this to me; go and solve the issue and tell me how you solved it and use every creative path you can to solve it. Well, that's what schools are trying to do now, and yet this –in this legislation is written a provision that says if a school wants to change the space where a daycare is located, then the minister has to approve. And it says that if you're moving a daycare between schools, well, then the minister has to approve.

And all these things will take time, and time is precious in the school division where problems need to get solved; they need to get solved under real timelines. I often speak to stakeholder groups and they chide us in this place as legislators and parlia - mentarians, for not being more rooted in common sense. They talk about common -sense approaches. They talk about pragmatic approaches, and I often say there is a lot of the private sector that we must learn as legi slators to inject into our practices.

We can learn that, and there are members in this place with a background in the private sector, as I know the member for St. James -Assiniboia, Assiniboia - St. James– An Honourable Member: Assiniboia. Mr. Friesen: –Assiniboia has and other members of my own caucus have, members who come here and have a business background and have worked in the private sector. And some days they must just recoil under some of the legislation that hits these desks and say this is not the most efficient way to do x, y or z. And we need that approach. We have it now.

We have the basis in which we can have an approach that respects the time, that respects the competencies, that respects the sober oath taken by our trustees, our school divis ions, our superintendents to deliver education in their communities. We could take an approach that respects the principle of subsidiarity. We could locate this power in their hands and we can trust that they will do it. And you know what, I would say another great example that I haven't even referenced yet would be the example of Bill 6. No, was it Bill 9? I've forgotten already.

What was the name of that bill that the NDP brought just two years ago with respect to antibullying legislation? An Honourable Member: Eighteen. Mr. Friesen: Oh, yes, Bill 18. How could I forget Bill 18? There, again, we heard day after day after day in committee stage that people agree– Manitobans all agree that NDP spends a lot of time talking about Manitoba principles and Manitoba values, and Manitobans in that room, I didn't hear one of them depart from the idea that kids should be free from bullying in schools.

But the NDP so narrowly focused their bill that it left so many groups of students unprotected from bullying acts. And, as a parent of three kids who have gone through the school system, two of w hom are still in the school system, we know that bullying exists. We had great ideas coming forward from school divisions, from third -party groups, from faith- based school groups in the independent system, groups that said we want to respect the integrit y of this bill, we want to extend it, we will do it even better.

But there was this top -down, management, hostile approach that didn't want to hear what they have to say. I hope

Wednesday, December 2, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 449 that in this case that is not the fixation of this government. I hope that w ith the compelling evidence that my colleague, the member for Lac du Bonnet (Mr. Ewasko), has put on the record yesterday, and with these few thoughts that I add to the debate today, and with others that we still will hear from today, that this government will take a second look, that they will say, you know what, I think we got this wrong; I think that we have a –we have school divisions that are ready to do the job.

They're –and want to take a lean approach and get this right. And so that's why we're looking forward to hearing what the public has to say when this bill goes to committee because in the same way that Bill 18 and other bills that this government has brought, the bill on policing in communities and municipal police force, in the same way that the government didn't do a good enough job of listening, perhaps this time they'll do a better job of listening to Manitobans. And so I thank you for that opportunity, Madam Deputy Speaker. * (15:30) Mr.

Cliff Cullen (Spruce Woods): Madam Acting Speaking, I welcome the opportunity to put a few words on the record in regard to Bill 7, another bill dealing with education. I think after today's introduction of another education bill, I think that's four bills on education we have this session. Certainly, it looks like the NDP have a new -found friendship for education, and maybe it's a reflection on the poor results that we've seen here in Manitoba in the last few years. And, certainly, the results are–have been going downhill quite dramatically over the last few years.

So we, you know, we were ninth at one time; now we're 10th and we're–quite frankly, we're 10th and fading. So it is time to pay some attention to education here in Manitoba.

Madam Acting Speaker, certainly we think that education is a paramount concern for Manitobans and should be a paramount concern for government as w ell, and, certainly, we need to have a very positive academic experience here in the province so that our students understand the basics and are provided with all opportunities to move forward in life, whether that be in the workforce once they graduate or whether they decide to go on to some further studies, whatever that may be.

Madam Acting Speaker, we're in a bit of a change in our –at home, with us, my wife being a teacher and certainly has been a teacher for, oh, boy, quite some time, and I think she obviously realizes the importance of education, and she quite often shares those stories with–of her students and some of the things that they encounter as educators, as problems and as roadblocks. And, obviously, we all have to work together with the stakeholders, you know, the parents, administration and, in this case, the provincial government as well.

So everyone has a role to play in education, and if we can all work together, certainly, I think we have to work together in the best interests of the stu dents, and that, at the end of the day, is really what it's all about. The decisions we make should be based on the needs of the students, and I think that's the important part of it.

So the change I talk about is in the fact that our youngest son is now off to college so it's quite a different dynamic around the household nowadays with the kids showing up basically on the weekends, but he's decided to take a business course at Assiniboine Community College, and things are working out pretty well there so far and he seems – certainly seems to be enjoying that. And we certainly are looking forward to not more announcements; we actually need some work to be done at Assiniboine Community College.

And I know the –there's–there certainly has been a–the first phase of Assiniboine Community College, the move to the North Hill has been undertaken. But I know the folks in–certainly at the college itself and certainly a lot of the people in the communities are looking forward to that project moving on. And it was really good, the member for Lac du Bonnet and I had a chance to visit with President Frison not too long ago, and he really had a –gave us a thorough explanation of what they were hoping to accomplish over the years.

And, again, that is –that will be determined by how much funding comes from the Province, and I guess they're looking at some federal money for that as well, but, clearly, provincial funding will make that project move forward. But it is really quite interesting to see how that campus could develop, and I think there's some real opportunities for expansion of the college, some expansion of different classes there as well. So I know Mark, he is really excited about the potential there and certainly looking forward to the future there, and we hope things will happen sooner rather

450 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Wednesday, December 2, 2015 than later on that development. So it is a positive move forward. I know we had the Throne Speech just a couple of weeks ago and there was the same line in there this year as there was last year. It was exactly the same line in regards to Assiniboine Community College. So we will wait with bated breath to see if the government puts their money where their mouth is, in that respect.

The other thing that's happened at our house - hold, our middle son who just graduated with his agribusiness degree from the University of Manitoba–so he certainly had that experience there at the University of Manitoba –got involved a little bit in politics there as well. Turned out he was the senior stick for the Agriculture and home economy faculty. So it was an interesting time for him and certainly an interesting learning curve for him, in learning to deal with a faculty and learning to deal with the students within the faculty, so it was a very good opportunity for him.

He's come to the point in tim e in life where he's going to have to decide whether he's going to continue in the workforce as he's doing now or potentially go back to school in some capacity. So that's where he is at. And I just wanted to say, Madam Acting Speaker, that our oldest so n is now a journeyman carpenter, so he has taken the apprentice side and actually went to Red River to get his Red Seal documentation. So he is working in the carpentry industry and certainly likes that as well.

So, clearly, you know, we see that educati on is very important for students and we think for all Manitobans, and we hope that students, as many as possible, will graduate here and then continue with their education here or ultimately to stay and work in Manitoba, and that's really what it's all ab out, Madam Acting Speaker. I do want to give credit to the member for Lac du Bonnet (Mr. Ewasko), our Education critic. I know he spent a lot of time on looking at the legislation that's before us.

He has also spent a lot of time since becoming critic tr avelling the province, meeting with teachers, meeting with principals, meeting with school boards and other administrators, as well, so that he has a pretty good understanding of what's ha

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Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	40-5-12
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	40th 5th hansardpdf 12.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	1f0d244ca2f8ebd0696e89d9381d1da3f0b010f0

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