VOL. 1 PRELIMINARY UNEDITED TRANSCRIPT HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR THE PERIOD: 3:00 p.m. - 6:00 p.m. TUESDAY, JUNE 15, 1982 NO. 22

June 15, 1982 Tape 1279 PK - 1 The House met at 3:00 P.M . Mr. Speuker in the Chair. MR. SPEAKER (Russell): Order, please! STATEMENTS BY MINISTERS MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Labour and Manpower. MR. DINN: Mr. Speaker, as indicated during the Estimate Committee hearings,my department recently conducted a study of the impact of offshore petroleum development on the fishery. This study was dicussed by government and my colleagues directed that it be tabled in the House of Assembly and subsequently released to the public.

This undertaking should be of special interest to those individuals and groups who, in the pust, have accused ~overnment of paying too much attention to offshore oil and gas with insufficient thouqht to the needs of our traditional industries, particularly the fishery. The study is a result of considerable research by my officials in the Department of Labour and Manpower and also involving the Department of Fisheries,Development,the Petroleum Directorate,and the College of Fisheries,Navigation-Marine Engineering and Electronics.

It concludes that, while competition for skilled marine personnel between the petroleum and fishing industries will be keen, severe shortages in the fishery are not expected during the next five years. The present personnel for offshore oil and gas and the fishery will be adequate for our short term needs. I would like to point out to the House, however, that manpower projections for development and production activities associated with the offshore indicate 'j . .., ., ~- i L !

June 15, 1982 Tape 1279 PK - 2 MR. DINtJ: that marine occupations will continue to be in relatively high demand over the next twenty year period. ,., -, '! ') I. / '·"' ,t_

June 15, 1982 Tape No. 1280 SD - l MR. DINN: The study concludes, therefore, that long-term manpower needs in marine occupations cannot be met by existing training facilities at the College of Fisheries. The present facilities and instructors are even now operating at or near capacity. Considering the expected attrition rate in highly skilled marine occupations in the corning years and the possibility of increased manpower mobility because of major oil developments in the North and other East coast locations, it is obvious that changes must be made in the medium and long term.

Late last year Brian Tobin, the Liberal member of Parliament for Humber-Port au Port­ St. Barbe and a member of the Parliamentary Task Force on Employment Opportunities for thr '80s, was quoted by the media durinn a news conference at Stephenville as saying that federal capital funding was available to the Province for facilities and equipment and this funding would apply to construction of a College of Fisheries, Navigation-Marine Engineering and Electronics. Following Mr. Tobin's announcernent,the Minister of Education (Ms.

Verge) and I, who were obviously very pleased, held a press conference at which time we indicated that we were pleased about the capital funding and that it would be available from the federal government under the new federal/provincial adult occupational training agreements. This new fund was to be called a skills growth fund. During a meeting, however, of Manpower ministers in January,I raised the question with the hon.

Lloyd Axworthy,who informed me that funding was not available through the federal Department of Employment and Irnrnigration,and that the funds were allocated through another government departrnellt, and at that time he indicated the Department of DREE. It is my understanding that this ?723

June 15 , 1982 Tape No . 1280 so - 2 ~fR. DINN : is still under consideration by various departments and committees ~lithin the federal government . The skills growth fund announced by Mr . Axworth restricts capital funds to institution where the training offered constitutes a national concern .

I am -extremely concerned that, despite the obvious importance of properly trained people to meet the future needs of industry in this Province , particularly in Lhose marine occupations referred to in Lhe study, it may not be perceived by the Canada Employment and Immigration COmmission as constituting a national concern . My dep<trtment , in consultation with the Department of Education , are now finalizing a proposal for submission to Canada Employment and Immigration detaiLing capital requirements which we feel are crucial to the training of Newfoundlanders .

In fact, many of the training problems \-lC presently face originate with the need for improved equipment and facilities. Ne will anxiously await the response "''f the federal qovernment to this carefully prepared propos<Jl . And, Mr . Speaker, I table with the statement a

summary o[ the study that was conducted by the various departments. SOME HON . z.1EMBERS : MR . LUSH : MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : !fear, hear. Mr • Speaker . 'l'he hon. member for Terra Nova . 2724

June 15,1982 Tape 1281 NM - 1 MR. LUO.!l: Mr. Speaker, this Ministerial Statement is basically in two parts, one relating to the study that the Department of Labour and Manpower (Mr. Dinn) conducted to ascertain the labour demands with respect to petroleum and how that was going to affect the fisheries, and the study carne up with nothing new insomuch as many studies have indicated in the past that the offshore type work does not take skilled people from the fisheries. So it is more or less a confirmation of findings of other studies.

And also, of course, again it is a known fact that we are lacking in training facilities at the College of Fisheries; of course not only at the College of Fisheries but at other post-secondary institutions as well.I would venture to say that we are down in facilities at the College of Trades and Technology as well. ~1any of these facilities were started a good many years ago, ten to fifteen years ago, the College of Trades of course going back further than that, and in that length of time their facilities have become obsolete.

They have not kept up with modern technology so there is no question that all of our post-secondary educational institutions certainly need better facilities to keep up with the technology of today, and that we certainly agree with. And secondly the minister alludes to the skills growth fund, a programme that was going to be made available to help train our people betterand ~rovide money for facilities. I must say I do not express the same concern as the minister does in this area.

He is afraid that the only institutions that will receive funding are those institutions which can be determined to be training ~eople for the nation, those skills that would have a national concern. And I would suggest, Sir, that any training that benefits the Province will benefit the nation. And I do not think that there is going to be a narrow

interpretation of this at all. I think i !: :·j

June 15,1982 Tape 1281 NM - 2 MR. LUSH: there is going to be a broad

interpretation. ~nclwhen we are talkinq about training people for any kind of marine development, when we look at Canada I think we will find out that that certainly encompasses a large part of Canada, British Columbia and parts of the North, and all of the Atlantic Provinces, and the Yukon. So I would suggest that, you know, anythinq that is of a 'I _t)

June 15,1982 Tape No. 1282 ah-1 MR.LUSII: marine development, anything that is going to affect the offshore,can certainly be interpreted as a national conc:et-n. So, Mr. ~;p(~itkc~r, .lq<tin, T think, ex,,ressinq a ruther narrow viewpoint of the fcdcrul qovcrnment and I believe that the proposal submitted by the hon. gentleman, whatever they might be,I think will be received very favourably by the federal government and certainly perceived in the view of meeting the natlonal interest. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR.SPEAKER (R~s~ell): Well, I do not have the names of the people, but I \vould like to welcome to the galleries today the mayor and two councillors and the town manager From the town of flare Bay. today. I welcome you to the galleries SOME HON.MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER: by ministers? MR.SPEAKER: MR.NEARY: Hear, hear! Are there any other statements ORAL QUESTIONS The hon. Leader of the Opposition. Mr. Speaker, I have a question or two for the hon. Minister of Energy (Mr.Marshall) in connection with the administrations's energy policy in this Province.

I would like to start out by asking the hon. gentleman if it is correct, if he can confirm or deny,that within the next eighteen to twenty-four months a new source of electricity, a new source of power will have to be found in this Province to take care of the load growth? MR.SPEAKER: Council. MR.Ml\RSHALL: The hon. President of the Mr. Speaker, that is the anticipation insofar as projections arc at the present time, that is the anticipated situation although the time for new sources of energy may be widened a little bit,but it is approximately that, yes . . ~ / ~2 I

June 15 ,1982 Tape No . 1282 ah-2 t-!R .NEARY : Mr. Speaker, a supplementary. HR.SPEAKER (Russell) : A supplementary . The hon . Leader of the Opposition . MR .NEARY : Would the hon. gentleman care to elaborate on tl:at answer, Mr . Speaker?

In the llqht of the decline in the economy, a decline in the us~ of electricity because no new indu stries have been established in this Province, old industries are shuttiny down , would the hon . ye ntleman care to indicate what is bringing on this crisis, that a major decision will have to be made by the administration in anywhere from eighteen to twenty-four months to fi nd a new source of pD\"er? \vhat is the reason behind this? MR .SPEAKI-:11: 'l'hu hon . r• resident n f the Count· i 1 . - - -·-- MR . MI\RSIIALL : lvc·ll , Mr .

Sp<'olkcr , we clo not take the rather depressed view of the future of this Province and the future of the economy that obviously the hon . gentleman does . The 2/28

:Junv 1 'i, I <Jill l'otR . l'ot/\RSHl\LL : 'l\1 PI' Nn • 1 2 6 1 M,1 - ract of the matter is at the prese nt time '<I C' arc in a r·csessionilry cycle - !!_R .. ~~l'!L\ I_tv : 1\ dcDression . ~1R . J1J\~ll!J.L : - a cycle , by the way ,that is heinCJ felt very severely here in the ~rovince of ~ewfoundland as all over C.:~nadil . llut we ha ve anticipation , we have hopes that 1fle will come out of th<tt reccssionary trend ,and that the normal rate of devctopmcnl ca n continue on .

As the hon . qentleman is \~ell a\oJetrt::' thC' Gross Domestic !?reduct in this Province prior to the recession - 1 belivc even now as 1.t presently stands, <l I thouqh it is nothinq to brag ::1bout at the present t:ime - 'urt prior to I he onslil uqht of this recession, which \.,ras brOUlJht about by tht' hi qh interest rates and the inflationary condition of the nation.:~J economy , that this Province \~as beqinninq to turn the cnrnc r,and turn the corner in relation to other provinces with r~spect to its proportionate increase in its (:ross Domestic Product .

So \~e arc looking forward to that type of activity in the Future . 1\nd also,or course , the hon . gentleman will be aware that with proper management of our resources su ch as have been evidenced so plainly in the Budget that was prcsent('d by the hon . the Minister of Pinan«cc (l> r . • 1. Coli ins), that we h<~ve rc•nson to be optimistic about th<' future . We prefer to be ontimistic r<~thrr r:h rn l)f"!;SimiHLic, Mr . Spe<Jkcr . §.Ol~ .!.:QI'L ·_ t!E:'ffi~"~ : MR . S . NF.J\RY: ---MR ._SPEI\Kfm (Husscll).:_ Leader of the Opposition . MR . N£7\RY : llear , hear! 1\ supplementary, Mr . Speaker .

A supplementary , the hon. the It is n funny thinq, Mr. Speaker, this .:~dminist rnt ion Se<' nrs to accept the responsibility for nothin q. They have not created one new industry in this Province in the last several years and I can only base my 2729

June 15 , J 982 'r.:JI)c No . 128J MJ - 2 MR . S . NEARY : questions on the track record of the administration . And I h.:1vc news for the hon . qentleman, when the Liberal •.-~ere in pOI,cr here there WilS always a new project on the qo . SOME liON . ~\EHIH·:RS : ----- --- ---- ... - Oh, oh ! MR . NEi\RY : ------ 'l'hill was ,"J, q rci.J t comment , ~lr . Speaker, :J.!'~Ec~_?hE~. is on the move il<J;'lin . 1-!r . r;pe.lk<···· \111\lllcl thL' hon . qcntlcm:ln tell thl' llt>usc whilt Lhc .alternatives aro lor il new sout·cc of p01"cr?

Is the admi nlstrutlon l<le>kintJ ut a new source of power by developinq rivers here on the Islandof Newfoundland ? Do they intend to install a fourth unit ut the Thermo-Generatinq Station in Holyrod , which is very expPns)ve? Do they inte nd to build a coal -fire qencratinq planl? - .,,hich a(_Jain is rather expensive , 41nd we c.::ln deal \oJith tho~L tate•· . Or docs the administration intend to usc qas Lurblncs similJr to the one. out in Stephenville to take care of the loild at peak periods? Would the hon . qcntleman tell the House t I ."j!]

June 15, 1982 Tape 1284 PK - l MR. NEARY: which one of these three alternatives the administration is considering? MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. President of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: 'I'o the first part of the hon. gentleman's

preamble,! neither wisb to comtemplate the Liberals returning to power any more than I like to remember the pain that fastened on the people of this Province while they were in power. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, with respect to his other question, all of these alternatives are in process of active assessment and consideration.

It suffices to sa~r though that it is ••nth0t.ic really, I think that is the proper description, to note that this nrovince must consider such other sources in the future ~s oil fired generation and coal generation of electric ·ower when we have such an abundance of resources on our own 1·1ithin the boundaries of our own Province,which we should be able to use for our own purposes. And we wou:! .d have been able to use them, Mr. Speaker, but for the fact that the hon. gentleman and his colleagues gave them away in the 1960s. So, Mr. Speaker, the fact of the matter is,yes, the answer is yes.

Very, very sadly as a result of the actions of the hon. gcnt1 ('ni' n I~IH'rc opposite and as a result of the continued oo·~ression by the Liberal Government in Ottawa with respect to Newfoundland to deny us our legitimate rights, we are forced to consider these other alternatives. We would hope, Mr. Speaker, that we would not be forced to use oil and to use coal and to use these other mechanisms other than hydro power. And I think, Mr. Speaker, as I say, we anticipate 1 the hon. gentleman knows, getting justice and equity for the people in Newfoundland from the Upper Churchill in the reversion / . j

June 15, 1982 1'ape 1284 PK - 2 r1R . r>lARSIIALL : case . We \,fOUld expect the reversion case to be decided in the very near future wherein we \.,ill be in a most better position to formulote our policies .

We certainly expect it to be considered very early in the calendar of the S·Jpreme Court of Canada, because after all the Supreme Court of Canada decided that the urgency expressed by tho federal government in the offshore case was enought to take the unprecedented stance of setting Lhe matter on the offshore down for trial on November 29 , but we will inform tho Supremo court of Canada that cqualty urgent to us,cven moreso,is the resolution of the Upper Churchill situation and we will expect a hearing of that -~ i]?

.-rune 15, 1982 Tape No. 1285 RA - l MR. W. _MARSHALL: before the offshore case, because after all we had that before their Lordships before the federal government made jts unprecedented move. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. NE~RY: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER(Russell): A supplementary, the hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR. S. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, there is an awful lot of people beginning to realize in this Province that may - be the thing to do is to return to the good old days. If the Upper Churchill had not been developed or the ERCO p]Ant h~~ nnt been buiJ~. - MR.

BARRETT: They did not think that on April 6th. MR. NEARY: - then the administration - - -~ MR. HODDER: Or the Linerboard mill. MR. NEARY: - or the Linerboard mill, this present administration would have nothinq to build on,they would have nothing to renegotiate, there would be no projects because they have not started SOMR HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. NEARY: - they have not startd a single in- dustry, Mr. Speaker. Now, Mr. Speaker, I asked the hon. gentleman about three alternatives, and the hon. gentleman elected to stnrt playing little political games again with somebody gave somethinn away. Mr.

Speaker, the hon. gentle­ man is aware that 100 per cent of the power generated on the Upper Churchill was not given away.it belongs New­ foundland, and we have recall rights on that power,and we can recall eight hundred megawatts immediately. And so what I am going to ask - HR. r'ARSHZ\LL: i .R. C!JAI R!'IAN: A point of order, Mr. cpeaker. Order, please! 11~. R?\RSflALL: 'l'hc hon.gentleman's impression of the facts as he gives them might be interesting to his colleaques . 2 · :n

June 15, 1982 Tape No . 1285 Rl\ - 2 MR . MARSHA~L: there opposit~but this is not the time for making a speech . The purpose of the Question Period is to ask questions and respond to them . The hon . c;untlemon is makinq <l spuech and thus is ouL of order . SO!>tE liON . MEHBERS : !lear, hear! MR . SPEAKER(Russell) : Order., please ! Will the hon . Leader of the Opposition direct his t;ue stion precisely to the hon. • :ilu:>~r , please? MR . NEARY : \'/ell, Mr .

Speaker, did I understand from the hon .'JEmtlemv.n 's onswor to my previous question that the ndmir.isLr;:~tion have not yc1 cl<"cidcd, yet Lhcy are telling us that they have an energy policy, they have not yet decided what alternati ve they intend to usc to get this additional power 18 to 24 months from now to take care of the load gro wth?

Is that wh at the hon . gentleman is sayin~, that no decision has been made even though we are drawing rilpidly near a crisis in electrical power in this Province? l decision must be made within 18 to 24 months according to the hon . gentlcm<:~n,and no decision milde yet by the administration as t" what alternatives we i nt cntl to •ts..: l:o qct that r_,o~1er? ·, )It

June 15, 1982 Tape No. 1286 SD - 1 MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The han. President of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, I repeat, we are weiqhing the alternatives. This is a government that assesses ~lternativcs before it makes a reputable decision of this particular nature. And, you know, I can guarantee the han. gentleman that the lights will not go off in Newfoundland, they will probably go off in Quebec before they go off in Newfoundland. SOME BON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear. MR. MARSHALL: But they will not be going off in Ncwroundland under the stewardship of this qovernment. MR. NEARY: Supplementary, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Final supplementary, the han . I do not know if it is the final one or not, but the han. gentleman told us, the administration told us, when the Cat Arm development was announced that that was the last source of hydro power on the Island of Newfoundland, so it would appear to me that the han. gentleman is running out of options.

Is it correct that Cat Arm is the last source and,if so, which one of the two alternatives, to build a fourth unit at the thermo-generating station at Holyrood or to build a coal fired generating plant, which one of these alternatives is the administration looking at? MR. SPEAKER: The han. President of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: Mr.

Speaker, in response to that, the alternative which we select will be, if it is required to be selected, the least expensive one to the people of Newfoundland because we will regard it as only a temporary remedy until we obtain the resource of the Upper Churchill and are able to commit it to the use of the people of this Province. ;: / J J

June 15 , 1982 Tape No . 1286 so - 2 HR . NEARY : Supplementary, Mr . Speaker . MR . SPEAKER (Russell) : NR . NEARY : The ho n. Leader of the Opposition . Mr . Speaker , would the hon . gentleman indicate 111hether it is necessary al all to look at the two alternatives that I outlined? \.Zould it n<>t be more f:c<.~sibtc for the auministration t:o look at the recall of 800 megawatts of power from the Churchill Falls and transmit it 3Cross the Strait of Belle Isle to the Island of Ne1.,rfou:1dland? Nould not the obvious conclusion , Mr .

Speaker, to this whole problem be for the adminstration to put together a package to develop Labrador power, to build a transmission 1 i ne Lo br inq the pow~r down Lhrouqh the Stri.lil ur flcllc tstc and brine) iL ucros1=; on the floor of the OCC'o:ln to the Tslnnd of Ncwfoundtand,;lnd to develop the other sources or power in Labrador and transmit the surplus power to markets on the mainland and in the United States? 1·1ould that not be the best solution to this problem?

And 1.,rhy is it that the ndministration is not looking at this possibiLity and not starting a transmission line immediately- 1.,rhich I understand would be partly funued by the Government of Canaclaiand the LOiver Chut·chill Development Corpor<:~tion as hon . membccs know is a 50/50 deal -why \.,rould the government not look seriously at chat proposal rather than go into expensive makeshift sources of expensive power here on Lhe Island of Ne wfoundland? MR . SPEAKER: The hon. President of the Council. MR . MARSHALL : Mr .

Speaker, I may not have caught all of the questions of the hon . gentleman because 1.,rhile he was speakinCJ with me - .'i 36

June 15 J.982 Tape 1287 NM - l MR. NEARY : You were getting your nomination fee back. MR. MARSIIJ\LL: - my nomination fcc returned, you know. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear~ MR. MARSHALL: Actually I think on behalf of the Minister of Finance (Dr. Collins) I should extend thanks to the Liberal Party for their preponderate contribution to the coffers of the treasury from the last election. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. MARHSALL: So I may not, Mr. Speaker,·have gotten all of tho question.

As I understand the hon. member's question, he was askinq why nrc we considerinq this when we have BOO megawatts of power that we can take. Because as the hon. qentleman knows the position with respect to the reclamation or recall of 800 rregawatts of power is a matter that is under consideration by the Supreme Court of Newfoundland at the present time. It has been an on- going trial, it has been going on for numbers of years.

It has been going on for such a long period of time because the Province of Quebec used the mechanisms of the court 1 by going up and down to the Supreme Court of Canada on preliminary motions,to thwart the will and the intention of the people of this Province and the agreement that they entered into which has forced us into the reversion. So it is not so simple as sayin~ that, you know, these 800 megawatts of power we have to have. It probably would have been slightly more simpler, Mr.

Speaker, if the attitude of the hon. gentleman's colleagues in Ottawa had been a little bit different and they had recognized the fact that we have, as a matter of right,the right to a transmission corridor which woul~put up in an equal positon with Quebec for the purpose of bargaining with Quebec rather than havinq the federal government deal all the cards out to the Province of Quebec once again. 1 7 ..J•

June 15,1982 Tilpe 12R7 NM - 2 MR . t-1ARSRALL: Because when you sit down to negotiate with anyone on an unequal basis inequalities result and these inequalities were never more manifest than we see in this Upper Churchjll contract to which he refers. So the answer to the hon . gentleman, t-lr . Speaker, is quite obvious that he c<Jn tillk about this why do we not use those 800 megawatts of pov .. er . we hmre to get that 800 megawatts of. power . We have to qet it through the court and we have to qet the rtght to do iL first .

J would ~are say and predict that what is qoinq to haPPen is that we will succeed in the reversion case beforu the recall ct~ se qoes Lo its Cull extent . Tn th~L Cil~C we will h~vu the whole 5,223 megawatts and we 1-1ill commil them to the use in Lhis Pro vince as it wishes . In the meantime if there is a necessity, as there very likely I·Jill be, a hiatus in the middle from the time when we build the transmission line and what have you, we will have to rely on these other sources of enerqy qeneration which we are in the process of asscssinq, if in fact Lhey are necessary . And if in fact, Mr .

Speaker, they arc necessary, the amount that the hon . q<mtlcmun contri.but~'cl to the 'l'reasury 1-1ill not in any ways equal the t~mount t.hat has been skinned out of the Treasury of this Province 2 · .H3

June 15,1982 Tape No. 1288 ah-1 MR.MARSHALL: as a result of their poor stewardshipof the affairs of the people of Newfoundland. MR.NEARY: ·--- Mr. Speaker. MR.SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR.NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I will deal with the political statements made by the hon. gentleman later on this afternoon in connection with the corridor across the province of Quebec and the misleading statements that are being made about that situation. I will deal with ' the later on this afternoon.

I want to deal now with the ' emergency situation of what kind of a source of electricify the administration is going to implement in order to get the power- n0c<lnd to take c.:tre of the loCLd growth in this Province.

I would gather from the last statement made by the hon. gentleman that the recalling of Labrador power- jf I can get t·he hon. minister's attention for a moment -the recalling of Labrador power, power on the Upper Churchill of 800 megawatts, and the development of the Lower Churchill or MuskratFalls is far removed from the hon. gentleman's mind and from the minds of the administration, that they are looking more at the - MR. TOBIN: (Inaudible) speech, speech. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, if the hon.

Bugs Bunny would just keep quite for a minute - is the administration looking more at building a fourth unit at Holyrood or a coal fired generator or the gas turbines, are they looking more at that proposal than they are at bringing Labrador power to the Island of Newfoundland? MR.SPEAKER: The hon. President of the Council. MR.MARSHALL: The cardinal policy of this govern"'cnt is to reclaim for the people of Newfoundland the hydroresources that are in Labrador. I think this '·' 39

June 15 ,1982 Tape No . 128·8 ah -2 MR .MARSHALL : is well known . !•1e have done this through tile Reve rsion Act . lie speaks of the Lo v1e.r Churchill . He ~nows full well that the Lower Churchill cannot be develoned without some means of sell ing the exce ss power, and he knows that the actions that were recently taken set that back quite a distance , so that is the situation .

For the hon . gentleman to pretend or to give any insinuation that the government is not firmly committed to this policy,as it has been in the past and it will be in the future and is nO\" bringing rcsults,is entirely and completely withou t foundation . On the oLher side of the coin,I can only reiterate the ans ~ter iniLially given ·to the hon . member,t hat these,shall I say foreign or artificial means-because that is really \oJhat they are; they are not part of our natural resources, not yet .

There is oil out there and we will get that eventually but l·tith the hydro resources we have we can put the oil to other use-but these other means of the production of electl.icity 1·dll be viewed by us as temporary. Andat the present time what vJe are doing is assessing the situati on and we are as sessing it very , very carefully and the hon . ge ntleman need not be afraid, Mr . Speaker, as I say, no mat ter ho\oJ much he wallo ws in the dark daily , day by day , New;oundland will not be in the dark during the stewardship of this particular administration . SOME HON .MEMBERS : Jlcar , hear !

MR .NEARY: ~ supplementary . A final supplementary , Ar .Spea ker . l1R .SPEAKER(Russell) : The hon . Leader of the Opposition . MR .NEARY : M~ . Speaker , J wonder if T could pin the hon . gentleman down on telling us now f.t40

June 15, 1982 Tape 1289 PK - 1 MR. NEARY: if the administration has already made a decision on this new source of electricity; and what will it be? Will it be the fourth unit at Holyrood, will it be the coal fired generator, will it be gas turbines? What source of electricity does the hon. gentleman intend to develop to try to get this extra power that they need? Which one of these alternatives? Because I get the impression, Mr. Speaker, that the administration have no firm energy policy at all. They are flying by the seat of their pants and they are just merely sticking their finger into the dike.

The han. gentleman has admitted that this will be a temporary arrangement. It is going to be pretty expensive for the people of this Province and probably drive up the cost of electricity. But which alternative is it that the administration intend to use? MR. SPEAKER (Russell): MR. MARSHALL: The han. President of the Council. The han. gentleman has obviously had averybad weekend, he is not his usual bouyant self as I see, but not only that he is repeating questions, askinq the same question over and over again. And I can only give the han. gentleman,with a great smile on my face,exactly the same answer.

And that answer, Mr. Speaker, is that these alternatives are in the process of assessment by this government. MR. NEARY: mind yet. MR. MARSHALL: You have not made up your We do not jump in and make snap decisions just like that, Mr. Speaker, we weigh and we assess everything and that is exactly what we are in the process of doing. No wonder I see, Mr. Speaker, certain people in the galleries yawningr It is not because they are bored, Mr. Speaker - 2741

June 15 . 1982 Tape 1289 PI< - 2 MR . NEARY : They are laughing at the hon . gentleman whc does not make snap decisions - MR. MARSHALL: - it has to be because of the question . t-1R. NEARY : - off the cuff and snap decisions . MR. HODDER : Hr . Speaker . M.R. SPEAKER {Russell) : The hon . member for Port au Port . ~tr . Speaker, a question for MR. HODDER : the President of the Council, House Leader, and Deputy Premier (Mr. Marshall) . Mr . Speaker , perhaps it is appropriate to ask the question at this time , the day that ou r nomination fees were returne<l . Leader is aware, Mr .

Speaker , as the House prior to the last general election the Election Expenses Committee was working . It has always been my feeling that He were not meant to have election expenses in the last election, although it was the avowed aim of the government that lhe last election we would be under a new Election Expenses ~ct . But in light of the fact that we have some of the most antiquated election expenses legislation in Canada - and I have asked the member this privately on a couple of occasions and have not gotten 274 2

June 15, 1982 Tape No. 1290 MJ - 1 MR. J. HODDER: a satisfactory answer- So I n01-.r asl; him publicly •.vhen 'tlill the Election Expenses Committee be struck? MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon. the President of the Council. MR. W. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, very shortly. It is intended,of course, to have the Election Expenses Committee reconstituted and reconvened ,and we will get on to that very, very shortly. Because the matter is of great concern, electoral reform is a great concern to this government and, as I say, in the very near futher we will do it.

I cannot give him a sprcified date but ce~tainly before the end of this sitting we will have the Committee on the new Electoral Act reconvened. MR. HODDER: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Port au Port. MR. HODDER : Mr. Speaker, the old Election Expenses Committee are all back here in this House. We were in the midst of deliberations before the last sitting of the House. But more than that, Mr.

S:,Jeaker, in looking at other jurisdictions and looking at the type of legislation and the type of committees that other jurisdictions use when setting up their election expenses, many of these jurisdictions had larger committees than we had. We had just five members on the committee. Would the House Leader (Mr. W. Marshall) consider enlarging the number of people on the Election Expenses Committee? And I will ask one more ~uestion: Why are we waiting until the end of this session ? Why cannot we just get on with our work because it is quite a time-consuming process?

And I think the aim of this government, if they really do want to have an election reform,is to start as soon as possible so we have the best possible act. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the President of the Council . ',) j 4 '.l ~' "''

June 15, 1982 'rape No. 1290 MJ - 2 MR. W. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, as to the first part of the questior., we will certainly take that under advisement, increasing the numbers, the size of the Committee. Our main concern is that the bill that has been presented during the last Assemblv in draft form be given a thorough vetting and assessment. So if ti1at needs more members we are perfectly amenable to considering that. I did not say it was goinq to be the end of the sitting.

I said, you know, within the very near future,bcfore the end of this sittiny, and J would hope to be able to get that put together in the not too distant futher. As the hon. gentleman knows, so he can take a certain amount of solace in that question, we do not expect an election in the real immediate futher. So there is going to be plenty of time, Mr. Speaker, for the Committee. MR. s. NEARY: You never know. You never know. MR. MARSHALL: No, you never know. MR. NEARY: With the behavior nf t~~Premier you never knm·'· He is likely to do anything, the mad hatter is likely to r. do a~thin'i; HR.

RSHA L: You never now when we are going to flush the hon. member over to Sidney. He jettisoned across the Conception Bay and Trinity Bay over to Laooile. In the next election he will jettisoned ov~r to the Mainland. So that is that. We can look at it and, you know, we are very serious about that Committee and we will be amenable to any suggestions, particularly of the hon. gentleman who asked the question, because he has been very interested in it and has made a valuable contribution to it. MR. B. TULK: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. the member for Fogo. MR. TULK: Mr.

Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Environment (Mr. II. Andrews), but since he is not 2/44

June 15, 1982 Tape No. 1290 MJ - 3 MR. B. TULK: in his se at I will ask the President of the Council (Mr. W. Marshall). The question relates, Mr. Speaker, to the announced decision of Abitibi-Price ~~ ? 4 5

June 15, 1982 Tape No. 1291 MR. TULK: to spray the herbicide 24D on 100 hectares of forest land near Red Indian Lake around the Millertown area. I understand this is being done to protect the softwood growth from the faster growing hardwoods. The question for the minister is has the government been contacted by Abitibi-Price regarding this experiment? If so, what was the government's reaction and have you given the green light to go ahead with that experiment? SD - 1 MR. SPEAKER (Russell): MR. MARSHALL: The hon. President of the Council . Mr.

Speaker, I understand that government, of course, has been in communication with Abitibi-rrice with respect to this. To my knowledge the area involved is going to be very small and the Department of the Environment and the provincial government will be monitoring it very, very carefully. MR. TULK: MR. SPEAKER: member for Fogo. MR. TULK: Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Supplementary, the hon. Mr. Speaker, this government has passed an Environmental Assessment Act. I would like to ask the minister another question. Upon 1,.rhose advic~ did the government give the okay to Abitibi-Price to go ahead with this?

Did they go through the Pesticide Advisory Board or did they form another committee to hold public hearings or just what did they do? MR. SPEAKER: MR. MARSHALL: The hon. President of the Council. Mr. Speaker, I would not be able to answer that immediately, I could take notice of the question. The only thing that I can say is that I do not know whether it was necessary to go through the agencies that the hon. gentleman referred to. All I know is that we have a very competent staff down in the Department of the Environment who are involved in this, who went over 2 llt 6

June 15, 1982 Tape No. 1291 so - 2 MR. MARSHALL: the situation,and certainly if it were necessary for any referral to that committee it would have been done , but to my knowledge there has been no referral. Nevertheless. this does not indicate, Mr. Speaker, that we are not very much aware of the situation, very much on top of it, and have had our very competent officials monitoringit now as they will in the future. MR. TULK: Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell): Supplementary, the hon. member for Fogo. MR. TULK: Mr.

Speaker, I am amazed to hear that the government has said you can go ahead with spraying the herbicide without holding any public hearings or indeed going back to the population itself. Mr. Speaker, the Millertown area and the Red Indian Lake area is one of the most densely populated areas in terms of wildlife that you will find in this Province,especially the moose population. I am wondering if the government has done any assessment of the effect of the spraying of this herbicide 240 on the wildlife in that area? t-.tR. SPEAKER: The hon. President of the Council . MR. MARSHALL : Mr.

Speaker, I want to emphasize again that this is a very very small area involved, an extremely small area and that this - MR. TULK: How small? MR . MARS HALL: - well it is - MR. TULK: 250 acres. MR. MARSHALL: - it is extremely small. We are given the impression and the assurances that we do not anticipate, shall we say, that it is going to affect wildlife at all or otherwise there would be another result to the situation. But even though we do not anticipate it, as I say, that is part of the monitoring process. You know, we will monitor it and we will monitor it very, very carefully and closely. 2/47

June 15, 1982 MR. TULK: MR. SPEAKER(Russell): member for Fogo. MR. TULK: Tape No. 1292 RA - 1 A supplementary. A supplementary, the hon.

I would like to ask the minister to come back to another part of the question which he has failed to answer,and that is: Has he received any complaints from communities in that area or from people in that area concerning the spray programme itself. the spraying of this herbicide?And if he gets complaints from those residents,or if he has had complaints from them, will he indeed hold public hearings to ensure that the wishes of the people of that area are met in this new kind of herbicide that is being sprayed? MR . SPEAKER: The hon. the President of the Council. MR. MP.RSHALL: Mr.

Speaker, that is a hypo- thetical question and in the first place I can answer it by saying that obviously ju~t merely the complaint - MR. TULK: Have you received any complaints? MR. MARSHALL: If we receive a complaint, Mr. Speaker, we will look into it and we will assess it very, very carefully. If the complaint appears to be legitimate, appropriate action will be taken. That may involve the sus­ pension of the spraying, it may involve the deminishment of the concentration of the spraying,or it may involve public hearings, it may involve getting in further ex­ perts to look at the situation.

I cannot answer that unequivocally right now. Obviously one complaint is not qoing to trigger public hearings. We would have to hear the nature of the complaint and access its veracity. :~ /4 8

June 15, 1982 Tape No. 1292 RA - 2 MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER(Russell): A final supplementary, the hon. member for Fogo. MR. TULK: The minister has said that they have no complaints or one complaint, he is not sure how many complaints they have,and yet they are monitoring the situation. I would like to ask the minister to repeat for this House if indeed he is sat- isfied with the affects of that herbicide on the wild-- life? Secondly, how are they monitoring the situation? And thirdly, how many complaints - it is not a hypo- thetical question - how many complaints?

Has the govern- ment received any complaints from any people in that area? HR. N~ARY: And who are they from? MR. TULK: And who are they from? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. President of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: Well, Mr. Speaker, I can only reiterate the situation. I am not going to say to the hon. gentleman unequivocally right now that I have gone out and I have personally tested the affect of this herbicide on moose or on wildlife or anything. All I can say, Mr.

Speaker, is that that proposal has been assessed by officials of the Department of the Environment and,as any action of that type,has been weighed and weighed very carefully and it will be monitored and monitored very carefully. MR. TULK: By whom? 2149

June 15, 1982 Tape 1293 NM - l MR. MARSHALL: By the a~pr o oiate officals in the Department of Environment and by any other expert opinion that we need to engaqe. We will be looking at it and lookinq at it very carefully. But in the meantime,as far as any complaints, I do not know myself, I cannot say, Mr. Speaker, that there have been any complaints.

There might be some questions that have been raised by people by way of apprehension with respect to the situation,and if we receive that type of observation we will try to deal with it as I have tried to deal with the questions of the hon. member, to allay it and to say that it is a very small area, we will do everythinq we can to see that there is no damage,and we will keep an eye on it. In other words,we will monitor it very carefully. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Order, please! The time for Question Period has expired. PRESENTING REPORTS BY STANDING AND SPECIAL COMMITTEES: MR. CROSS: MR. SPEAKER: MR. CROSS: Mr.

Speaker. The hon. member for Bonavista North . I am pleased to report that the Government Services Committee on estimates, which had referred to it five departments, namely Heading IV - Finance; Heading V - Public Works; XI - Transportation; XVI - Labour and Manpower; XVII - Municipal . Affairs, t:.1e Committee has considered all those headinqs and have passed them without amendment. I would like to say thank you to all members of the Committee, the Vice-Chairman, the hon. member for Terra Nova (Mr. Lush) 1 the hon. member for Grand Bank (Mr. Matthews) 1 the hon. member for Bay of Islands (Mr.

Woodrow), the hon. member for Kilbride (Mr. Aylward) 1 and the hon. member for Windsor-Buchans (Mr. McLennan). I would like also to say thank you to the ministers and their officials for their co-operation :~ 7 :) u

J\:ne 15, 1982 MR . CROSS: SOl-tE HON . f.IEf.1BERfi: M~. SPEAKER (Russell) : speci al committees? Tape 1293 NM - 2 during the debates . Hear, hear! On motion report received and adopted . Any other reports of standing and NOTICE OF MOTION : MR . DINN : MR . SPEAKER: Manpower. MR . DINN : Mr . Speaker . 'fhe hon . f.linister of Labour and Mr . Speaker , I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to intro duce a bill, "An Act To Amend The 1'10rkers ' Compensation J\ct ." MR . f.1ARSHALL : MR . SPEAKER: MR. t-1ARSHALL: Mr. Speaker . The hon . President of the Council . Mr .

Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill entitled, "An Act To Amend The Newfoundland and Labrador Bydro Act, 1975 -" ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS FOR WICH NOTICE HAS BEEN GIVEN : DR . COLLINS : Mr . Speake r. ~1R . SPEAKER : 'l'he hon. Minister of. Finance . DR . COLLINS : Mr . Speaker , I wish to table the answer to question 4 7 , from the hon . mem!)er from Port au Port (l>!r . Hodder) , which was asked on May the 13th . ~· 1 ~ 1

June 15, 1982 Tape 1294 PK - l PRESENTING PETITIONS MR. CALLAN: Mr. Speaker MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon. member for Bellevue. SOME HON. MIMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. CALLAN: Mr. Speaker, I beg leave to present a petition on behalf of 4,281 concerned citizens­ now there were 4,280 until I affixed my own signature a few moments ago- so there are 4,281 signatures on this petition, Mr. Speaker, signatures of concerned citizens who are served by the Cottage Hospital at Markland. Now, Mr.

Speaker, for the benefit of those people in the galleries,I might mention that we are only entitled to speak for five minutes in presenting a petition, and then someone on the other side ,if he or she wishes,can also speak in support of the petition or whatever. Mr. Speaker, 4,281 signatures is not a common petition to be presented in this House of Assembly. ~R. NEARY: You can say that again. MR. CALLAN: As a matter of fact, Mr. Speaker, it is pretty uncommon to have a petition with that many signatures presented in this House.

I believe perhaps the last time that I can remember that a petition of this size had been presented is when we presented petitions regarding the high rates of electricity back a few years ago. MR. NEARY: Right. MR. CALLAN: We all know,of course,these petitions accomplished nothing . Mr. Speaker, let me read the prayer of the petition:"It is the intention of the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador to begin phasing out Markland Cottage Hospital to be completed by September 1, 1982. We the undersigned are in total disagreement with this government 2/52

-· _ __ ·!.J. June 15 ~ 1982 Tape 129 4 PK - 2 MR . CALLAN : action and we '"ill not toler at e any action on the part or the government thnt endangers the live s, health , and safety,nor the jobs of the Newfoundland people . It is certain that the mortality rate of those suffering from severe injury or illness will increase significantly . Markland Hospital offers a val uable and most needed servic e.

Therefore , we demand that Pr emier Peckford keep his promi se made publ icly on the 30th of !4arc h, 1982.that an out -patient clinic will be co nst ructed during the term of his administration and that the said clinic would be co nstructed adjoining the Markland Hosp ital ." So that is the prayer of the petition , Mr . Speaker, containing 4,281 names. Now , Mr. Speaker , if I can refer back to the latter part of the prayer in the petition - the petition has referred to a public promise that was made by the Premier on /1\arch JO . J n t:.hi~ ; llousc 27 53 •·

June 15,1982 Tape No. 1295 ah-1 MR.CALLAN: of Assembly a couple of weeks ago I asked a couple of questions about that public promise and the Premier said that he knew nothing about it, that he had made no such public promise or even a private promise. But, Mr. Speaker, and this is the larger issue concerning this whole affair, it is the larger issue, the issue of whether or not people can take the word of the Premier, whether it is in private or in public . That is the larger issue which concerns a very important issue, the downgrading of the Markland cottage hospital. Mr.

Speaker, many , several people have written and they have been heard in the media, they have been heard at public meetings, to reiterate what this petition just said, that the Premier has perpetrated on the people in that area, he has perpetrated a breach of trust. A breach of trust has been perpetrated on the people. Mr. Speaker, the people served . by the Markland cottage hospital are not solely resldent in the district of Bellevue,which I respresent.

The hospital is also serving the health needs of people who live in the district of Placentia West- and the member •·1ho was there earlier has left his seat now-and it u!so serves many, many people , hundreds of people - Placentia East, I am sorry, And for the benefit of the people in the galleries I must also mention that we are not allowed to use members names. We refer to members by their districts. And also , of course, seven or eight communities in the district of Trinity-Bay de Verde also need and require and trust to - DR. COLLINS: Are those the same communities that will be served by the clinic?

MR.CALLAN: Yes, that is correct, they will be served by the clinic. There are eleven,of the thirty-five ? ? 'jti

June 15 ,1982 Ta pe No . 1295 ah-2 NR .CALLAN : communities in the district of Bellevue , only eleven are served by the Markland cottage hospital, only eleven of the thirty -five . But you also have a couple in tne district of Placentia East and you also have seven or eiqht in the district of Trinity-Bay do Verde . So , Mr. Speaker , as r said carlier,there is a larger issue here than the downgrading of a cottage hospital . but there is somethinq jus t as importilnt as that , I believe, the fact that this petition is signed by residents who live "' • :· c. I . ,) .,J

June 15, 1982 Tape No. 1296 SD - l MR. CALLAN: in Placentia East, in Trinity - Bay de Verde and in the district of Bellevue. Mr. Speaker, I see from the note just handed me my time is up. t1r. Speaker, I support the prayer of this pcti tion. I hope that when the Premier gets back from his sojourn in Ottawa, or wherever he is gone, that the Premier and his colleague, the Minister of Health {Mr.

House), and the other two gentlemen who represent districts on that side of the Hquse served by the cottage hospital in Markland, that they will all sit down together, also with the Cottage Hospital Improvement Committee and any other concerned people who want to sit in on this meeting, that they will sit down, have a second look - or a third or a fourth, or whatever is is - at this decision of government and that hopefully government will see that a mistake has been made when all of the facts and figures are presented to the Premier, to the Minister of Health and the others attending this meeting. Mr.

Speaker, I ask that this petition be placed on the table of the House and I ask that it be referred to the department to which it relates. MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER (Russell): MR. NEARY: Minister of Health - MR. HOUSE: MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I support the petition. Mr. Speaker. The hon. Leader of the Opposition. Mr. Speaker, I thought that the You did not think, did you? would comment on the petition just presented because it directly affects the hon. gentleman's department and the health of the people in three electoral districts in this Province.

The hon. gentleman obviously does not have the courage to yet up and speak his mind on this petition, Mr. Speaker, MR. HOUSE: I can still get up. MR. NEARY: Well, the hon. gentleman has the oppor- tunity because it is back and forth. ~fter my hon. colleague took his seat, then you - i. / ~) 6

June 15 , 1982 Tape No . 1296 SD- 2 SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh , oh . MR . HOUSE : MR . SPEAKER (Russell) : A point of order, Mr . Speaker . Order, please ! The hon . Minister of Health. MR . HOUSE: Mr . Speaker, r understand when a person stands to speak to a petition he supports the petition and does not take on the people across the Bouse . MR . SPEAKER : Order , please ! The Chair's understanding of the rule is that one member from either side of the hon . House has the riqht to rise and speak in support of the petition,and I am assuming that hon . members will support the petition . MR .

NEARY : What a cowardly point of order just made by the hon . Minister of Health (Mr . House), t-lr . Speaker . Jle did not have the courage to get up and speak in support of this pct:ltion . I want to congratulate my colleague, 11Jr . Speaker , for the role that he has played in this matter so far of the closing of the Markland Hospital . And I want to congratulate all those people \-JhO have been holding public meetings and circulating petitions to try to save their hospital, Nr . Speaker .

Not on~y arc they trying to save the hospital for r-tarkland , but they are probably in the process, if they can save that hospital, of saving the cottage hospital scheme throughout Newfoundland , Mr . Speaker. Because if the minister succeeds in closing the ~tarkland Hospital , then I would say the days are numbered for the hospitals at Come By Chance, at Botwood, at Placentia and various ot her parts of Ne,vfoundland where they have a cottage hospital. 2/57

June 15, 1982 Tape 1297 PK - 1 MR. NEARY: So these people, Mr.Speaker, are fighting for Newfoundland, not only for the three districts where people signed this petition, they are fighting for Newfoundland and they are fighting to try to maintain peace and health services for the people of this Province. Mr. Speaker, we have seen petitions brought into this House with less number of names on them. We saw a petition recently tabled by the Government House Leader (Mr. l-iar shall) , the Minister of Energy 1 with forty-three names on it- MR. CALLAN: Forty-three . MR.

NEARY: - and the government acted quickly on forty-three names. They moved swiftly, Mr. Speaker, to correct that situation. And here we have one of the largest petitions ever presented in this House,as indicated by my hon. colleague. The only other petition that was larger was the one that had to do with electricity rates, and that wasProvince wide. This is a large petition. AI i, Mr. Speaker, if the government have not become too arrogant and too dictatorial,they should pay attention to that petition because every signature that went on that petition did not go on it very lightly.

The people knew what they were doing when they signed that petition. They knew, Mr. Speaker, that this was an important matter for residents of three electoral districts in this Province. DR. COLLINS : The Oooosition knows (inaudible). MR. CALLAN: Long Harbour and the ERCO plant. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, as a doctor I am surprised to hear the hon. gentleman make a silly remark like that across the House. Mr. Speaker, the statements that have been made about the closing of the Markland Ilospi tal are frightening.

The doctor has been silenced down there,he is not allowed to express his views 1 and that doctor is certainly 2/t!B

June 15, 1982 ·rape 1297 PK - 2 MR . NEA RY: a person who knows the situation in that area . He has been silenced by the administration . MR . CALLAN: He is gagged . l>lR . NEARY : He is gagged . He stands to los e his job iC he speaks out . Then we hear statements from people in the know, people in authority in St . John 's,who say that the St . John's hospitals cannot handle the work that will come to them as a res ult of the closing of the Markland Hospital. That is frightening , Mr. Speaker . And we all know , Mr . Speaker , about 27 59

' June 15, 1982, Tapel298, Page 1 -- apb MR. NEARY: the way that the Markland Hospital and the Come By Chance Hospital, we know how they deal with trauma cases in these hospitals, we know how they deal with accidents. They have as good a reputation for dealing with trauma and accidents on the Trans-Canada Highway, and there seem to be a lot of accidents in that area and in the Come By Chance area that have to be taken to the Markland Hospital and to the Come By Chance Hopital and they have an excellent reputation of dealing with those cases, Mr. Speaker.

And then we hear statements from other medical sources telling us about the possibility of children dying, senior citizens dying as a result of the closing of this hospital. And the hon. gentleman can sneer all he likes at that, Mr. Speaker, but it is true. So the closin~ down of this hospital is a very serious matter, a very serious matter indeed. And I also, Mr. Speaker, before I take my seat, I also have to say this, that the Premier of this Province will never be believed again. His integrity and his honesty has been brought into play in this whole matter.

Because he told the people, March 30th.,that that hospital would not be closed, that any clinic would be built adjacent to the hospital, in addition to the hospital facilities. And it is a double-cross, Mr. Speaker, of the worst kind. DR. COLLINS: truth? Is this the truth? MR. NEARY: Are you telling the I would advise the government to reconsider the decision to close this hospital, Mr. Speaker. It is a very serious matter. DR. COLLINS: Are we hearing the truth now? 2760

' J1,1ne 15, 1982, Tape 1298, Page 2 -- apb MR. NEARY: And instead of my hon. friend,who should know better, instead of the hon. gentleman making snide remarks across this House, it would be far better if the bon. gentleman asked his colleagues to reconsider this matter, because the hon. gentleman knows the consequences as a medical man, what will happen in this area if this hospital is closed. MR. SPEAKER(Russell): Order, please! I hate to interrupt the hon. the Leader of the Opposition(Mr. Neary), but his time has expired. MR. HOUSE: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health. SOME HON.

MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. HOUSE: Mr. Speaker - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, we got him up. MR. HOUSE: Mr. Speaker, it was not the opposition that got me up, I had planned to address this particular petition. Mr. Speaker, I support the right of people to petition. Obviously that is a fundamental right and I support that, and I support the right of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador to adequate medical services. The petition talks about danger 0f health and life safety. These are not the facts Jf course, as given to me by the expertise that I ha discussed it with.

But I do say I support the right of people to have adequate medical services, but that does not necessarily mean, Mr. Speaker, that we have to continue with what we have always had . • , 7 ~- 1 L. 0

June 15,1982 MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER (Russell) MR. NEARY: Tape 1299 NM -] Mr. Speaker, a point of order. Order, please! My understand in'"', ~~r. Speal~er, of the rules of this House is that when a ;·c.~ition is presented you can only rise in your place to support a petition. My impression of what the hon. gentleman is saying is that he is not supporting the prayer of the petition, If the hon. gentleman is not supporting the prayer of the petition, Mr. Speaker, then he is out of order. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! The Chair has not heard the remarks made by the hon. Minister of Health (Mr.

House) to the effect that he is not supporting the prayer of the petition. MR. HOUSE: Mr. Speaker, I am amazed at the hon. gentleman who can get up there and enunciate half-truths all the way and then gets up and tries to rule somebody else out of order. MR. NEARY: petition? MR. HOUSE: .'Ire "ou smmortin<J the Mr. Speaker, I am supporting the people's right to adequate medical services. I have stated that and I have told the people that - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER MR. HOUSE: Order, please!

Order, please! -some of the thinqs that they are worried about, some of their concerns that they are worried about, the trauma that the hon. member just mentioned too, nothing will change in that respect. We have tuJked about a clinic that is going to provide what I call essential emergency services and this is what seems to be the fear of people Andi have had good grounds from medical people that we will adequately handle these trauma situations just as we always have. ? ./ G 2

June 15 ,1982 Tape 1299 NM - 2 MR . HOUSE : The other tiling is we have been caLcdnCJ in Lllill p.,rticLil..Jr· comrnunily t1nd <lr.<'u Lo Hi ,OOO out -patient pcof~C over th e number of years and th<:~t is going to be improved with the new facility . The other thing is we had 457 people admitted to that institution last year for an average of 4.2 days, and that shows a certain pattern and we believe that the pnrticula'r facility is not adequate for in -patient facilities , so we are offerinq certainly a ood facility . The other thing I want to mention , I am acccptinq the petltion , Mr .

Speaker , I am up to accept the petition , and I will meet with the people in the area to discuss the ~~hole miltter . MR . 'lOUNG : 11eo r, hear : lhqh t on there . MR . IIOU SE : What I mean by the people of the area , Mr. Speaker , i~ the constituted committee . :~ 7 6 3

June 15,1982 'T'ilpG ].299 NM - 3 ORDERS OF THE DAY: MR. MARSHALL: Comrnitt8e of the Whole, Mr. Speaker. On motion, that the House resolve itself into Committee of the Whole, Mr. Spedker left the Chair. COMMIT'T'EE OF THE WHOLE: ~) !~

June 15,1982 Tape No. 1300 uh-1 MR.CHAIRMAN (Aylw.:trd)~ - Order, please: l\ bill, "An Act To !\mend The Unified Family Court !let". (Bi] 1 No. 43). Motion, that the committee report having passed the bill without amendment, carried. MR. Ml\.RSTIAT.L: -----·· · Highway Traffic Act". (20), carried. Order 5, llilJ No· 2. l\ bill, "An Act To Amend The (Bill No. 2). On motion clauses(

l) through Motion, ·that the committee report havinq passed the bill without amendment, curried. On motion that the committee rise, report progress and ask leave to sit again, Mr. Speaker returned to the Chair. .• l. ~ ; t

June 15 , 1982, Tape 1301 , Page 1 -- apb MR . SPEAKER : The hon . the Chairman of Committees . ~ffi . CHAIRMA N(Aylward) : Mr . Speaker, the Committee of the Whole has read and considered the matters to them referreci and directed me Lo rc~ort havinq passed Bill no . 43 and Uill No. 2 \viLh ouL .:1mendment. On motion, report received and adopted, Bills ordered re.:1d a third time on tomorrow . ~ffi . MARSimLL : Order 2, Committee of Supply . On motion, that the llouse resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole on Supply, Mr . Speaker left the Chair . ~Qf:1~1 _r:l'!f:B . OF' . S!JPf'!• Y MR.

CI:IAIRMAN:Aylward)_: Order , please! !lead 302-01, the Premier 's Office . The hon . the President oC the Council . HR. MARSH~J:,J:._:_ l>!r . Chairman 1 when we adjourned our consideration or the cstim..aLes last time it was sugyested that Lhc contr~ct of Mr. Cabot Martin should 1~ tabled, and l have pleasure now in t..aulin~ the Order in Council dated September 9, 1981, which reads : "Order that the hon . the Premier on behalf of the Province being as hereby authorized to enter into a one-year contract for the employment of Mr .

Cabot Martin as Senior Policy Advisor to the Premier w.ith effect from August 26, 1981, at a salary of $57,000 per annum , a dt:ufr.. copy of the s,lid conLrucl hc-in<J on Cilc with the Clerk of the Bxccutive Council ." r table, Mr . Chuirman, a copy of the contract Hhich is exactly the same as the contract under which Mr. Martin's original employment was entered into with the exception, of course, of the ' 6 tj ...

June 15, 1982, Tape 1301, Page 2 -- apb MR. MARSHALL: difference in the salary. I could point out, Mr. Chairman, that the contract, as the !Jon. gent lc,men wi 11 see, a 1 thouqh The Order in Counc i 1 ·~! / ~ !: ~ ~ J '

June 15, 1982 Tape No. 1302 RA - 1 ~R. MARSHALL: is here and this is the intent of the thing, the contract was not signed,but it is what was passed in Cabinet, be­ cause really it was just an oversight and it was thought really not necessary because Mr. Martin had signed a contract before which was exactly the same terms here with the exception of the fiFty-seven thousand dollars.And the commitment of the Province, the extent of the obligation of the Province,is recorded in the Order in Council. So, I have much pleasure in tabling this documentation. MR . CHAIRMAN(Aylward): The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. NEARY: Mr. Chairman, we welcome the tabl- ing of Mr. Martin's contract. I am at a loss still, even though the bon. gentleman gave a brief explanation as to why it was not signed. The han. minister said it was not signed because there was a previous contr, . ..::t. Well, Mr. Chairman,that strikes me as a very flimsy excuse for not havinq the document properly signed and complete. Now, Mr. Cha1rman,I do not want to dwell on that matter any longer.

I want to deal with statements that are being made repeatedly day in and day out by the Premier of this Province that go unchallenged, statements that are irresponsible, statements that are misleading, statements that are not true made by the Premier of this Provinc e hath inside of this House and outside of the House, Mr. Chairman. And the most recent ex­ ample of these misleading and irresponsible statements have to do with the power corridor across the Province of Quebec.

Now, Mr.chairman, let me say this~ The hon. gentleman this morning was on the open line programme, and the han. gentleman said that it was an initiative that was taken by this Province that brought the legislation before the Parliament of Canada. Now, Mr. Chairman, let me set the record straight. It was not because of the initiative of '>68

June 15, 1982 Tape No. 1302 R1\ - 2 1\'.IL NJ·:l\HY: this l'rovincc,likc the l'rcmier has been saying. Tt was not ,and let hon. gentlemen not be fooled or duped by the Premiers misleading statements. The reason the legislation grantl.ng a po•1er corrid or across any province- it did not deal exclusively with the Province of Quebec , it did not give this Pt"ovince exclusive rights to hav~ the power corridor across Quebec and all the olhcr provinc<'s not have a corr iclor across each other's province - Mr.

Chairman , this legislation was of universal application <~nd the reason it came bef.ore the Par liament or Canada had nothing to do with this administration here or the Premier of this Province, ·, i r· n , \,.1 ~J

June 15, 1982 Tape No. 1303 SD - l MR. NEARY: and the han. gentleman knows that, Mr. Chairman, and it was stated in a letter that was written to the Minister of Energy in Quebec on June lOth, last week. Mr. Lalonde says, 'We recognize that regulating the interprovincial or international transmission of electricity raises particular problems . That is why our proposals do not go as far as those related to gas and oil. The initiative'- listen to this, Mr. Chairman, and let this - MR. MARSHALL: Are you going to table it? MR. NEARY: I cer.tuinly am <joing to table it, Mr. Chairman. The fact of the matter is, Mr.

Chairman, listen to this; han. gentlemen should listen- 'The initiative of the Government of Canada in this instance·- meaning bringing in legislation for a power corridor across various province~-'results from representation made by Calgary Power, now Trans-Sulta Utilities, concerning electricity sales to the United States.' Now, Mr. Chairman, let us put that statement to bee forever; it is untrue that it was this Province that initiated the legislation before the Parliament of Canada. It was Calgary Power that initiated it,and if.

Calgary Power had not taken the initiative there would be no legislation hefnrP the Parliament of Canada. DR. COLLINS : Where were they going to send the power. MR. NEARY: To the United States. DR. COLLINS: Across what province? MR. NEARY: I do not know what province they wanted to go across, I presume it was - DR. COLLINS: 1\] ber.ta is right on the border. MR. NEARY: Mr. Chairman, 1 can only go on the informatio~ supplied by the minister. And so, Mr. Chairman, the initiative did not crnnc From this Province, and so that is the first statement that is not true. Now, If!

June 15 , l 9 8 2 Tape No. 1303 SD - 2 MR. NEARY: Mr. Chairman, also the hon. Premier plays with words when he talks about rights and privileges, the people of Newfoundland do not have the same rights and privileges as other Canadians. Mr. Chairman, that also is a misleading and irresponsible statement. As far as pipelines are concerned,we have the same rights and privileges in this Province as any other Canadian. That is a myth. Mr. Chairman, as far as the transmission of electricity is concerned , every province of Canada has the same problems as we have in Newfoundland. ) ; 7

June 15 , 1 982 MR . NEARY : all equal . 'i.'ape 130 4 PK - 1 1\ncl so in that regard we are 1\nd, Mr . Chairman, what the hon. member is doing is comparing apples and oranges . To my knowledge not one Province of Canada has every objected to a pipeline.whether it be for gas or oil . Nol one Province has ever objected to my knowledye . And if there was an objective , Mr . Chairman , you would have the same problem , problems \~i th pipelines, as you have \vi th transmission 1 incs . But every Province of Canada would welcome v pipeline , would welcome it .

They would give their righ t arm to have a pipeline bring oil and gas into their province . And that is why there has never been an objection . J\nd , t-1r . Chairman , if you ever get an objection about il pipeline from any prov 1ce ,you are going to have the same problems lS you have with the transmission line . Mr . Chairman, the hon . gentleman also makes this irresponsible statemcnt ,that what Mr . Lalonde and the Government of canada suggested to the two Provinces , Quebec and Newfoundland, was Lha l they sit dovm and nc<JO Liate a po\ver corridor . That was not th e suggestion , Mr .

Chairman , and the hon . gen tleman kno ws the difference . That is not what Ottawa suggested . What t-1r . L.::tlonde suggcstecl was that the two governments sit down and try to resolve their differences on (

a) the reopening of the Upper Churchi ll contract, or (

b) the transmission of power from the Lower Churchill to markets on the Canadian t-tainland a11d in the United St<lLcs; and (

c) Lh<l L they 1 ook <t t the )'oss ih i 1 i ty ol join L dt·vt ·l opu1l~nt or f i. VC' rivers thaL (10\ v from Nm ., [oundl<:~ntl l .• i.lbraclor into th<.: - ~/72

June ..L5, 1982 'I'ape 1304 J:>l< - 2 MIL Ml\1{$11111 d.: - - On a ~oint of order, Mr . <.:hairman. MR . CILI\IRMJ\N (1\yht.:trd) : 1\ point of order , the hon . President of the co.uncil (Mr. M.,rshaH) . MR. MARSlli\LL: ~!r. Chairman, the hon . member lv<rs referring to a letter just a moment ago allegedly coming from Mr . Lalonde to Mr. Duhaime and he said he lvould table it at the time . And I ask hov1 that he table the letter because - MR . NEARY: No, Mr . Chairman , I am not finished 1vith the letters yet . MR . CHAIRMAN: MR . NEARY: To that point of order? I 1vill table the letter . every intention, Mr .

Chairman , of tabling it . I have MR . CHAl RMAN : The hon . Leader of the Opposition (Mr . Neary) says he 1-1ill tabl .e the l etter . MR . NEARY: As a matter of fact I am going to table the letter to the hon . gentlema n too, but I am not finished with the letters yet , Mr . Chairman , and I only have one copy in front of me . So if that is in order ,- MR . Clll\J l~N : Yes . '!'here ls no roint of order . '!'he hon . Leader of the Oppos ition . MR. NEARY : And , Mr. Chairman .the third thing was that Mr . Lalonde suggested and 2/13

June 15,1982 Tape No. l 305 ah-1 MR.NEARY: what he was talking about was a packaqc deal. He was not talking about the two provinces negotiating a corridor across the province of Quebec, that is false and misleading and irresponsible, that is not what the Government of Canada recommended.

The Government of Canada recommended three things; Sit down and resolve your differences on the reopening of the Upper Churchill contr~ct; the development of five rivers where the headwaters arc in the Newfoundland part of Labrador with the downstream in the province nf Quebec Labrador; and the transmission of electricity either on the present tr;J.nSffiiSSiOn lineS r JlydrO nucbeC IS transmiSSiOn lines, or a new transmission J inc across the' l>rovince of Quebec.

That is what. was recommended, because neither one of ~hese provinces would have the authority to negotiate a corridor. 1~cy can come to some kind of a mutual agreemen·t on how they would wheel the power across the province of Quebec. And let me say this, Mr.Chairman, let me say this, that I was completely amaze!" when I read both letters, a letter to the hon. gentleman and a letter to Mr. Duho.imc , the Minister of gnerqy in the province of Quebec, where the federo.l Minister or Energy says on page two just listem to this, Mr.

Chairman, he is sa~ing to the minister in Quebec, "Thank you for the efforts you have made to facilitate the reopening of negotiations. I have communicated today with our colleaque in Newfoundland , Mr. Marshall, again to inform him that the Government of Canada is of the opinion that the only real solution satisfying all legal points separating the two provinces is a comprehensive nqrccmcnt covering production and transmission of clc~ctrici ty i_n Labrador and on the North shore. In our discussions," Mr. Lulondc says to his colleague in Quebec, "you huvc emphasized • h

June 15,1982 Tape No. 1305 ah -2 M il. NJ·:I\J~Y : ·•(IllY fcc 1 ing thn t: some cJe Jay in implemcntin<J the sections of the Dill Cl08 would be helpful in encouraging a negotiated settlement between the two provinces. Vou mentioncrl n period of six months". DR . COLLTNS : rt puts l:o much pressure on the Newfoundland government. MR.NEAAY: Mr. Chairman, it puts more pressure on the Quebec government because that act is qoing to be procl!'l.i.mf'n in six months time. DR. COLLINS: J\nu you i.lrc o<;ainsl the delay , are yo u? MR.NF.J\RY: Mr. Ch•tirmun, Further :in the seventh paragraph,and this, Mr.

Chairman, in my opinion is the key paragraph, it s&ys, "The Government of Canada is o[ the view thilt we should qivc another chance to the negotiations processed.A settlement between the two governments would be substantially beneficial for both • • ~ ,. 'J

June 15, 1982 'fapeNo. 1306 M,T - 1 MR. S. NEARY: "Both would qain revenues and l1oth would benefit from the creation of thousands of jobs, something both provinces need at this time. The regretabl~'-listen to this, Mr. Chairman -''che reyretable <Jnd possible futile alternative risks beinq the contin11ation o[ yeurs of lit<Jgation between the two provincia I qovernmen ts :• DR. COLLINS: Is that Mr. Duhaim~'s letter or Mr. Lalonde's? MR. NEARY: That is Me Lalonde writing Mr. Duhaime. DR. COLLINS: It sounded like Mr. Duhaime. ~!_<_: _ _J:!EAJ<Y: We I l , so whu t ~ Mr.

Chairman, for some reason or other that I do not understand and that people of this Province cannot comprehend is why,after this offer is laid on the table, Quebec is flexible, why the Minister of Energy (Mr. W. Marshall) or the administration in this Province will not sit down and negotiate and try to resolve these matters in ~ood faith? Mr. Chairmun,.why is the Minister of Enerqy in this Province Lryinq Lo bt! difficult? Why is he qninq ou~-or his w.1y to b(• difficult":' 'f'hC' h<1n. qcnllc•man says, 'We are not going to negotiate.' Mr.

Chilirman, even if that act had been prrlclaimed on the niqht that it went throucrh third readinq in Parliament , neqotiations would have to take place. You have to ha.ve a. certain amount of qood \~i 11. And if :you did not have that,we would be tied up for the next 100 years in litigatio~And if a transmission line was forced to cross the Province of Quebec,you would have to have a battalion to watch each tower,becall':;e, Mr. Chairman, if Newfoundland-put the shoe on the other foot-if Newfoundland rlid not want il transmission line or a cipe line,would we allow it to yo there? Would we? MR.

CARTER: sure we wo u l d . MR. NEARY: \Jow does the hon. gentleman know? ) ,' I 6

II:< June 15 , 1982 Tape No . 1306 MJ - 2 MR . DINN: (Inaudible) because Newfoundlanders are rea sonable people . MR . s. NEl\.RY : Mr . Chairman , the first thing that would happen is that we would be tied up , we would be tied up in litigation for the next 100 years . There would be problems about the environment, we would be in the court . We would be in the courts for the next 100 years . And hon . gentlemen, Mr .

Chairman , they can dig in and they can tell the 1-Iorld, 1 If you do not do it our way you do not do it at all . 1 In that case the water from the Lower Churchill will flow into the Atlantic forever , there will be a dead end on the reopening of the Upper Churchill contract - it will never be reopened-and there will be no other rivers in Labrador developed . That is the consequences of the policy that the hon . gentleman is following . DR . COLLIN S: That is a good

summary of the Quebec cas e. 2777

June 15, 1982 Tape 1307 NM - 1 MR. NEARY: Mr. Chairman, I would say this, Mr. Chairman, that negotations, otherwise you would have a Falkland Islands situation - if you want a Falkland Islands situation where Argentina - and I compare this Province now to the junta in Argentina - MR. DINN: MR. CHAIRMAN MR. NEARY: negotiate - MR. CHAIRMAN: MR. NEARY: (Aylward): Oh, good. Order, please! - where the junta refused to Order, please! - and what happened? MR. CHAIRMAN : Order, please! The hon.Leader of the Opposition's time has elapsed. MR. NEARY: MR. CHAIRMAN: MR. MARSHALL: I will come back to it again. The hon.

President of Council. Well, Mr. Chairman, at least we do have something that the hon. gentleman has said that we can reply to. First of all I assume the hon. gentleman is going to table that letter, and I would observe and I think that this should be observed, and this is one of the problems we have with the federal government, it is rather unusual that the hon. gentleman could come into possession of a letter flowing between the hon. Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources (Mr.

Lalonde) for the federal government, and the Minister of Energy Resources of the Province of Quebec, allegedly setting forth the position of the federal government when we have not been given the courtesy of receiving a copy of that same letter. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. MARSHALL: That is true. So I think that fact alone, Mr. Chairman, indicates to me that the hon. gentleman is in league with the hon.

Energy Minister in Ottawa and the Federal Liberal Party to the same degree as the Federal Liberal Party to the same degree as the Federal Liberal Party is so obvio~sly in league with colleagues in the Province of Quebec. 2?78 ,.

June 15 , 1982 Tape 1307 N~1 - 2 OR . COLLINS : The federal government will not communicate '~ith the government of Newfoundland . MR . MARSHALL: 'rhat is a fact , Mr . Chairman, as the Minister of Finance (Dr . Collins) has indicated, that obviously the federal government again , just as they did \.,rhen they came down on the offshore case, communicated 1.,ri th the provincial opposition Liberal caucus , they are also giving them corxespondence which we have not had the benefit of seeing, but we will see it because the hon . gentleman is going to table it. MR . NEARY : I have no hesita tion . MR .

HO USE : That is one of the reason~ they got wiped out in the last ele ction . MR . MARSHALL : The hon. gentleman always gets up and speaks lvith great authority, but nobody really challenges him to any great degree because he is an aggressive speaker and because he puts his sentences together the 1vay he does that sometimes they take it that he understands 1~hat he is talking about. But if you listen, Mr . Speaker , to the substance of 1·rhat the hon . gentleman says, you will realize that this is entirely to the contrary . I~ talks about we not having the same rights as other provinces of Canada , and the 2779

June 15, 1982 Tape No. 1308 RA - 1 MR. MARSHALL: matter with respect to the transmission of power. Is the hon. gentleman not familiar with the provisions of Bill C-108? Is not the hon. gentleman familiar with

Section 12,which is

Section 43,which has one of the Sections which has been deferred, postponed, cancelled, whichever way one wishes to express it,and it says, 'The provisions of

part 5 that apply in respect of a pipe­ line and power rights, duties and liabilities of a company to set out in that

part in respect of a pipe­ line, apply in respect of international power line of a person as if the reference in that part were accord­ ingly.' So, Mr. Chairman, it is so that they do have the right to apply to the I~ational Energy Board for power lines and these things. And it is so, no matter what the hon. gentleman says, that we are not being treated when we are not given that particular right by the Govern­ ment of Canada. Now, one of the main problems that we have with respect to the message given by the hon.

Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources-and I am in the process of responding to that today,and unlike him I will give him the curtesy of receipt of the reply before I make it public­ his own telex, Mr. Chairman, was sent after business hours on Thursday and was not received until later on Friday morning, never came to our attention. The first thing that we were aware of the situation was we read it in the press. But that does not surprise me today after I see that the hon. gentleman,cosy, cosy with the Leader of the Opposition (Hr.

Neary),is giving him information in really a distaste­ ful manner, to do this, to deal with the Opposition rather than the government. How does the hon. gentleman in Ottawa ever expect to be able to sit down and negotiate on a reason­ able basis if he continues to operate in those tactics? ?/BO

:t' June 15, 1982 Tape No . 1308 RA - 2 MR. ~~HALL: Now let me make it plain: There is no government that bas ever negotiated as much as this government has. on the offshore, we have wanted to negotiate on the offshore . l~e have put a proposal before the federal qovcrnment on the offshore; they have not re ­ sponded to it . The subj ect before consideration now is with respect to the transmission lines . For seven years we have negotiated, for eight years we have ne gotiated, and we have negotiated hard with the Province of Quebec .

And th ey have not put anything substantial to any degree what­ soever on the table . The last meeting with the Province of Quebec occured in September o( last year between myself and Mr. Duhaime,about ten days before the beginning of the reversion case before the Supreme Court of Newfoundland . The meeting was at his request because he wanted us to postpone the reversion case to which we 2 7 81

June 15, 1982 Tape No. 1309 SD - 1 MR. MARSHALL: replied in the negative because, as I say, this matter had been going on for such a long period of time it had to be brought to a resolution. Subsequent to that meeting I wrote him a letter, a three page letter, recounting the meeting and recounting the fact that nothing of substance was put on the table, indicating to him that we are always prepared to negotiate , but I had to candidly tell him that if he was not prepared to put something substantial on the table that there would appear to be no basis of talks and negotiations.

His response to me some six weeks later was a four line letter, five or six line letter, which say, 'Thank you for your letter of such-and-such. You raised some very interesting points and perhaps we can discuss them at some time'. Now does that sound like the action of a gentleman or a government that was interested in negotiations? I say not. So this government is always prepared to negotiate.But we will not and we will never, Mr. Chairman, negotiate inherent,basic rights which we possess as Canadian citizens.

These rights,and this right which we contend is an inherent, basic right, is a right which is this right for the transmission of hydro,to get this power. It was promised to us, the federal government is now reneging on it ,and it reneges on it on the basis of - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh: MR. MARSHALL: - if I could, Mr. Chairman . MR. CHAIRMAN (Aylward) : Order, please! MR. MARSHALL: It reneges on it on the basis, Mr. Chairman, of having negotiations. They want to negotiate, they will not put the corridor through until we negotiate.

In other words, they are saying to us that we will not give you your basic rights until you negotiate with the Province of Quebec. Now our position quite simply, Mr. Chairman, is this, that our rights in ')/tl"2 i._ ,

June 15, 1982 Tape No. 1309 MR. MARSHALL: the Canadian Confederation do not depend upon our negotiations with the Province of Quebec or with anyone else. We have these rights and what the federal government is doing by this particular action is dealing out a deck of cards with all of the cards being dealt to the Province of Quebec. There were negotiations before, Mr. Chairman, on that basis and we know what the results were.

Indeed , if there had been a recognition, if the federal government of the day SD - 2 had been prepared to implement the right which Newfoundlanders have to this power corridor in 1960, the government of the day would have been in a much better position with respect to their bargaining and they would not be at a disadvantage or an unequal positioP. .And I think with the personnel of that government we would have still had the same mistakes anyway because they were so consumately stupid in their handling of the affairs of this Province 1 but at least they would have felt in a more equal position and possible something better would come.

I say to the hon. gentlemen there opposite when you have people put in unequal positions what is going to happen is you are going to have inequalities that are going to result. MR. CHAIRMAN (Aylward): Order, please! MR. MARSHALL: And that is what the federal government was doing in this particular case. I will get back to it later on,if the hon. gentleman wishes . MR. CHAIRMAN: MR. NEARY: The hon. Leader of the Opposition. Mr. Chairman, I have every intention of tabling these two letters. I have a copy of the letter that was also sent 2 t G 3

June 15, 1982, Tape 1310, Page 1 -- apb MR. NEARY: to the hon. gentleman, Mr. Chairman. And can you imagine the hon. gentleman getting up and criticizing me for having copies of these letters when I asked Ottawa to let me have all the information in connection with this matter so that the truth would come out,and not just one side of the story ,as we have been hearing from the hon. the Premier, making irresponsible and inflammatory statements. Mr.

Chairman, can you understand the minister who just took his seat criticizing us for having these letters before the hon. gentleman received the one from Quebec, when on Friday- and the hon. gentleman knew there was a letter on the way to him from Mr. Lalonde. MR. -MARSHALL: I did not know. MR. NEARY: Oh, I beg your pardon, Mr. Chairman, the hon. gentleman did know there was a letter on the way to him he received since Friday. MR. MARSHALL: That is untrue. MR. NEARY: It is not untrue, Mr. Chairman.

And he jumped the gun on Friday and brought in a resolution before he had all the facts at his fingertips, before he knew what had happened in connection with the postponement of the proclamation. Before he knew that the Premier brought a resolution into the House condemning Ottawa. He does not know why he was condemning Ottawa. SO!:'!E HQN. I~F.l>iBERS : Oh, oh! MR. NEARY: He condemned Ottawa, Mr.

Chairman, brought in a resolution that was inflammatory, insulting, rude, irresponsible and smelled of warmongering, before the hon. gentlemen had the facts at their fingertips, and a letter on the way to the hon. gentleman explaining the whole thing. And the letter, Mr. Chairman, in my 2784

June 15, 1982, Tape 1310, Page 2 -- apb MR. NEARY: opinion, is a reasonable proposal, reasonable and fair - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. NEARY: - reasonable and fair in ever y respect. And the whole trouble is, Mr. Chairman, that is anybody was being discourteous, it was not me or members of this side of th e House, it was the hon. gentleman and the Premier, the Siamese twins who were being discourteous, and not only being discourteous but being 2785

June 15,1982 Tape No. 1311 ah-1 HR. ~lEAR~:: unfair to Newfoundland and to Newfoundlanders because they did not tell the truth about this situation to the people of this Province. MR.MARSHALL: On a point of order, J'.'!r.Chairman. J'.'!R.CHAIRMAN (Aylward) : The han. President of the Council. J'.'!R.MARSHALL: I would ask the han. gentleman to retract it. J'.'!R.NEARY: I withdraw it,Mr. Chairman. J'.'!R.MARSHALL: The fact of the matter is that there was no communication, we had no cof.oounication. If we had had that communication on Friday morning, J'.'!r.

Chairman, that resolution that this House passed would have been infinitely stronger than it was. SOJ'.'!E HON.J'.'!EJ'.'!BERS: Hear, hear! J'.'!R.NEARY: J'.'!r. Chairman, that is not a point of order. That is just a difference of opinion. J'.'!R.MARSHALL: It is a point of order. J'.'!R.NEARY: It is not a point of order. J'.'!R.MARSHALL: It has been legitimately raised. J'.'!R.NEARY: It is not. MR.CHAIRMAN: To that point of order. J'.'!R.NEARY: Rule,Your Honour. J'.'!R.CHAIRMAN: I will reserve ruling on that point of order because I did not hear what the han. Leader of the Opposition said. MR. NEARY: J'.'!r.

Chairman, let me read the letter written to the Hinister of Energy (J'.'!r.J'.'!arshall) in this Province in case hon. gentlemen have not heard it or have not seen it,and let us see who is telling the truth and let us see who is fair and let us see who the real culprit is in this whole matter. Let us see who is ·) ., "' 5 "· i H

June 15,1982 Tape No. 1311 ah-2 MR.NEARY: being difficult to get along with and being unreasonable. I will read the letter and then I will table it after. "Dear Sir," it says to the Minister of Energy (Mr.Marshall), Td, "Hon. William Marshall, Minister o[ Energy, St. John's, Newfoundland Dear Sir .: During the last few months I have had the privilege of discussing with you and your predecessor, Mr. Barry, the dispute between the Newfoundland and Quebec Governments over the transmission of electricity.

As you know, the Government of Canada tabled in Parliament last June a draft bill and in February of this year a bill entitled, "The Energy Security Act". This bill contains legislative amendments to the National Energy Board Act which will permit the designation of certain interprovincial power lines as falling under the regulatory power of that board,and which will grant the board authority to permit expropriation for these designated interprovincial and international electricity transmission lines.

Our government has already indicated very clearly its willingness to exercise its constitutional authority to regulate certain aspects of interprovincial and international electricity transmission. ''As you know, the Conservative Party and the New Democratic Party have voted against those provisions in Parliament." Mr. Chairman, I hope hon. gentlemen got that. "As you know, the Conservative Party of Canada and the New Democratic Party have voted against those provisions in Parliament.

You will also remember that in my previous correspondence with you and your predecessor,as well as in numerous public statements, I have repeatedly stated that the federal government ·; n..,. · a 1

June 15, 1982 Tape No. 1312 MR. NEARY: "strongly favours a negotiated settlement between the two provincial governments. For technical as well as economic reasons , a negotiated settlement provided for intergrated movement of Labrador power through the Quebec Hydro system is infinitely superior to any system of dedicated line transmitting power through Quebec. Since the publication of our proposed amendments to the National Energy Board Act, I have had discussions with the Minister of Energy for Quebec, Mr. Yves Duhaime.

We have rcvjcwed together the dispute between Quebec and Newfoundland concerning the transmission of electricity. From these discussions I have a strong preception that the Government of Quebec is anxious to arrive at a negotiated settlement that would be advantageous to both parties.' Listen to this, Mr. Chairman, 'In particular, I have a clear indication' - I will repeat that, Mr.

Chairman- 'In particular, I have a clear indication that as a part of negotiations extending to the development of the Lower Churchill so - 1 River as well as to the Quebec North shore rivers, the Quebec government would be willing to improve appreciatively the payments relating to the Upper Churchill power. In addition, the Quebec government would be willing to discuss arrangements under which Quebec Hydro would not be the exclusive buyer of additional electricity produced in Labrador.' Can I repeat that again in case the hon. bearded wonder from Grand Bank (Mr.

Matthews) does not understand it? 'The Government of Quebec would be willing to discuss arrangements under which Hydro Quebec would not be the exclusive buyc .r of additional electricity produced in Labrador.' DR. COLLINS: They would nnt ti'lke >1.U 0f nuT" :!:"P.snurces, they would only take half of it. 2/BB

June 15, 1982 Tape No. 1312 SD - 2 MR. NEl\RY : ''It is clear from these proposal~'- DR. COLLINS : Very imoressive. MR. NEARY: Mr. Chairman, the hon. gentleman has such a buttoned-down,narrow mind. Look, in Newfoundland and in this House you have Tories and you have Progressive Conservatives, ? ;· 8 9

' June 15, 1982 Tape 1313 Pl'\ - l MR. NEARY: and there is a vast diff~rence, Mr. Chairman, in Progressive Conservatives and Tories, the real blue bloods. And the real ~lue bloods are sitting right there in the front seats, the Minister of Energy (Mr. Marshall) and the Minister of Finance (Dr. Collins), real Tories. They are the ultimate in Toryism. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. NEARY: Now the hon. member for Burin-Placenti< West (Mr. Tobin) could be anything, a Progressive Conservative, or a Liberal, or even an NDP, but I do not think he could be a red roaring Tory.

There is the original red roaring Tory right there. DR. COLLINS: The Opposition are either naive or (inaudible). SOJ>!Jt: liON. l"lC:JVJU.l:.l{S: un, on: MR. NEARY: Mr. Chairman,'' It is clear from these proposals that the Quebec Government is genuinely interested in proceeding with dispatch to serious negotiations of the issues dividing the two provinces concerning the production and distribution of electrical power.

Moreover, it is the view of the Government of Canada that the only truly satisfactory way to resolve the dispute between the two provinces is through negotiations covering a broad range of issues'~not the corridors the Premier is talking about- ··a broad range of issues dealing with the production and the transmission of electricity:• ''The experience of the past ten years clearly shows that exclusive concentrationon the contract between Quebec Hydro and the Newfoundland and Labrador Government will only lead to a dead end.

In the circumstances we believe that we should give one more chance to the process of negotiations to succeed. An amicable resolution of the conflict between the two provinces is the best guarantee of large,additional revenues to the Government of Newfoundland , as well as the early creation of major economic ') /9 0 \ ''-

June 15, 1982 Tape 1313 PK - 2 MR . NEARY: activity, which both provinces are sorely needinq at the present time . The alternative " - Mr . Chairman, just listen to this - ''the alternative will ue more years of endless and possibly fruitless lit.igation bet~1een the two provinces ~" That is the alternative . Now, ~tr . Chairman, here is another key sentenc e ."In spite of the opposition of theConservative and the New Democrat i c parties, the government !1f Canada has decided to ask parliament to pass bill C-108, including tbe provisions concerning electrical power transmission . However , in order to encourage both provincial governments to return in good faith ?1 91 .... ,.

June 15, 1982 Tape No. 1314 MJ - 1 MR. S. NEARY: ''to the bargaining table, the Government of Canada has also decided to ask Parliament to amend Bill C 108 so that any par~ of the legislation concerning the movement of electricity would come into effect six months after proclamation". MR. CHAIRMAN (Aylward) time has elapsed . MR. W. MARSHALL: MR. CHAIRMAN: Council. MR. MARSHALL: go at it as well. Order, please! The hon. the Leader of the Opposition's Mr. Chairman.

The hon. the President of the Mr.Chairman, I have to have another First of all,there are so many things that, you know, that could be said about that telex. I will be responding to that texex. I am in the process of responding and I will be making it public tommorrow. Perhaps I will make it public in a press conference and then afterwards in the House.Because quite frankly, Mr. Chairman, in matters respecting the federal government with the hon. gentleman there over so assiduously wishing to protect them, it is very difficult to make a reasoned statement without being flooded with interruptions.

I will be responding to that telex tomorrow. Suffice it to say, Mr. Chairman, that when you look at that telex and you read it the only way I can describe it is as dripping and sopping with cynicism of a nature that we have not even experienced from the federal government before. You will note in the telex,an analys~s of what the hon. gentleman read in the telex, where the hon. gentleman indicates that he has discussions with Mr. Duhaime . 'Since the publication of our proposed amendments to the National F.nerqy Board l"'ct, I have discussions with the Minister of l~ncrgy for Quebec, Mr.

Duhaime, ~vc hilvc rc'vicwed loqcthcr the 2182

June 15 , 1982 Tape No . 1314 MJ - 2 MR . MARSIIJ\LL: dispute between Quebec and Newfoundland concerning the transmission and electricity ." Now how nice and cosy, cosy, Mr. Chairman , 7\lmost as cosy , cosy, as the Leader of the Opposition ( Mr. Neary ) and the Minister o( Energy r1in es and Resources for Canada . How nice and cosy , cosy and how, Mr . Chairman , •t~e · should at least \lleigb the fact that the hon . qentleman is indicating in his telex of cons ult at - ion s with the l'rovince of Quebec when they never had the courtesy to record us the same type of conSl.tlation .

No~1 that is the first point , Mr . Chairman, and that has to be a very real point , l'lnd his stateme nts ln that telex the meat really and meaning to the statcments,the intemperate remarks,that were made by the Pr~mier o( Quebec in the Nat iona l Assemb~y of Quebec some ten days before that , you will recall 27 93

June 15, 1982, Tape 1315, Page l --apb MR. MARSHALL: he was quoted as saying, Mr. Chairman, that the government -he did not say it in these words, he said it in much more abrasive words in effect that the Government of this Province better learn,'better learn' ,that they were going to have to negotiate. And what were the next words he said? He was reported as saying, 'And sooner than they think'. 'Sooner than they think'. Yes, Mr. Chairman, in his mind, 'sooner than they think~ because, you see, he had already been in consultation at the time, quite obviously, with the Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources(Mr.

Duhaime) who has a seat in the Province of Quebec,and he obviously knew from that statement what the decision was. It has been verified and corroborated by this cynical telegram that was sent. Another point that the hon. gentleman should be well aware of as well is that my understanding of the provision of that bill was not that the sections with respect to the power corridor would come into effect six months hence, Oh,' no, Hr.

Chairman, that was not the wording, The wording that was there was, "These sections will come into effect on a date to be proclaimed by the Governor in Council"-that is the Cabinet -"which shall not happen in any event earlier than six months time". Now, no guarantee. What assurances have we, in six months time, that this power corridor legislation will go through, Mr. Chairman? What possible assurance?

We had assurances before that we would get the power corridor, and we can remember the hon. gentlemen on the other side beating their breasts and singing, 'How great they art', and how great the federal powers were to at last give us the power corridor. We had it promised to us and the promise is foregone and they have reneged on it. So what confidence can we have that this is going to be proclaimed in six months? What 2/94

June 15, 1982, Tape 1315, Page 2 -- apb MR. MARSHALL : confidence can we have when we know there are seventy-four members of the Quebec caucus in the Federul Liberal Party? What confidence can we have when we hear their -; ,-3 5

June 15, 1982 Tape No. 1316 RA - 1 MR. MARSHALL: bosom buddy and co1league,Mr. Levesque,who is not known, Mr. Chairman, for reposing great confidence in the way that Confederation works. What more can we think when he uses such statements as 'Hell will freeze over before they will get the power line'? Was he re­ peating in effect the information that he had from the federal government? I rather thirik so, Mr. Chairman, and until proven to the contrary, will accept that as the position. The whole way in which we have seen treated and the way in which this is qoj11" nn is absolult!ly disgraceful.

What has happened here, let there be no mistake about it,is we have once again been denied our rights for a power corridor and in place of that Newfoundland's basic rights are being put up on the pyre again,at the mercy of the Province of Quebec. What is to say -this Province now, if you operate in 1•'hat the federal government would wish us to do, would go in and negotiate as to whether we had the same rights as other Canadians , which is something which we will not do. And will they use that in a •1uise, Mr.

Chajrman, ror the purpose of saying, ' Oh, we need more negotiations', because Newfoundlanders refuse to negotiate their basic rights? Now as for negotiations, we have negotiated and we have negot- iated in good faith for the past seven or eight years on the matter of the hydro power. We have done everything with Quebec to try to get Quebec mobile. There has been no move­ ment,but now we are to take the word of Mr. Lalonde that he thinks that there is movement. Why does he think there is movement?

I am surprised that the hon. gentleman there opposite would be prepared now to take the word of Mr.Lalonde, when he indicated in this House not so lonq ago that Mr. Lalonde was not to be trusted. MR. SIMMS: Right on! :?iSG

June 15, 1982 Tape No. 1316 RA - 2 f.tR . Ml\RSHALL : I would say that the hon . gentleman has probably been drawn into line by Mr . Lalond~.a n d i•lr . Lalonde 's colleagues , and being told by 'the Leader outside the House to toe the line and to adopt whatever the federal qovernment want ,which is what the Leader out ­ side the House did to his sorrow durinq the last Provincial elN:t;...,,,. ·~nt the fact of the matter is , Mr . Chairman , that we nave no confidence in the way this thinq has been handled. I mean , here the federal qovernment obviously has imparted its decision ··: ? :3?

June 15, 1982 Tape 1317 TM- 1 MR. MARSHALL: to the province of Quebec before it imparted it to this Province. It is obviously said if they put such credence , by the way, in what the Conservatives and the New Democratic Party said, why did they not keep the whole bill? Why did they bother to proclaim any of thP. hill if thev were going to put such weight in the criticisms? Because the opposition parties in the House of Commons critized the entire provisions of bill C 100. So they need not give us that 7\nd, Mr. Ci1airman, it is just a little bit too serious for Mr.

Lalonde to be entering into his political gamesmanship. Now, the situation,as I say , with respect to negotiations, to hear a Newfoundlander stand on the floor and to say he agrees with Mr. Lalonde and the process, Mr. Lalonde, make no mistake about it, is repeating the same argument and the same proposition that has been made by the government in Quebec over and over and again, month after month, anc1 year after year, for the pur~ose of stonewalling and stymieing any progress being made. Because as each day goes by they get millions of dollars. What does that telex say?

It repeats exactly the same thing and the hon. gentleman agrees \lith it. He agrees with this so-called 'package deal' vhlch, incidentally,involves the !Jrovince of Quebec getting a slice out of the Lower Churchill. Now, the people of Quebec have no more rights to the benefits and the resources of the Lower Churchill, Mr. Chairman, then we have to the riqhts of what is derived from James Bay. That is a right of this Province and the only way that 1.1o·e can realize that right 7 the only I•Jay that we can, if there are any negotiations, can deal ? ./ :18 ~- I ,")

ll1 June 15, 1982 Tape 1317 TM - 2 MR. HARSHALL: on an equal basis with Quebec is if we have the same rights as they have,as any other province of Can3da . How can you sit down with some - body and even negotiate - this is why the Uoper Churchill occurred, this is why we made no progres s over seven or eight years, because you sit down with the Province of Quebec and they know that Ottawa is behind them and Otta wa is going to block the transmission of po wer . And this is what Ottawa is doing in this particular case, believe you me, it is taking steps to block the transmission of power .

They have made no meaningful proposals with respect to the Upper Churchill . And I say also, Hr . Chairman , that one of the purposes of this move, I believe , is to counteract the effect of the Reversion Case .

Because this government had the courage to bring in the Act which it did, and has brouoht it to the Supreme Court of Ne wfo un dland , it has t-een ruled to be valid in the Supreme Court of Newfoundland, it only awaits an adjudication of the Supreme Court of Canada, the people of Quebec and the Government of Quebec all of a sudden now are Jetting concerned . so they say to their friends in Ottawa, "Well,we have got to have something to counter­ act that, so what can we do?" 2799

June 15, 1982 Tape 1318 JC - 1 MR. MARSHALL: So their friends in Ottawa say, "Well, we will not give them the transmission rights, so that will bring them back .at 1AR9t a ~ay and put up the border agai~". Mr. Chairman, the basic rights of the people of-we are prepared to negotiate on any fair basis with anybody, on an equal basis. We want the federal government to negotiate on the offshore on a reasonable basis to protect the interests of the people of this Province, but we have had no success with respect to it. We have tried to negotiate with the Province of Quebec over and over again but we will never, Mr.

Chairman, and the same hell will freeze over as Premier Levesque referred to,because hell will freeze over before this Province will ever,ever negotiate basic rights which - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. MARSHALL: - it has within confederation. Otherwise,that is all we can do. You know, the hon. gentleman is prepared to accept Mr. Lalonde sayinq that the Quebec government is prepared to improve the offer~ he is prepared to accept what Mr. Duhaime says about improving the offer despite the experience of the past seven or eight years, despite the results of that meeting, despite the cavalier attitude of Mr.

Duhaime. So, you know, he can accept that. I have no doubt he would accept it, because he is a part and parcel of that same group of people who accepted everything to the loss now of $500 million to $600 million a year. Well, that is not going to happen again, Mr. Chairman. And no matter what happens this Province is not going to be subjected to the tender mercies of Quebec, as to whether it has the rights to live as equal Canadian Citizens or as something less. That will never occur. And the proposal which is in this telex, this message from 2800

June lS, 1982 Tape 1318 JC - 2 MR . MARSJiALL : Mr . Duhaime, \•lhich is really one that the cynicism could be wrung out of , if you consider all the factors in it, the very fact that the hon . gentleman consulted with Mr . Levesque - this is what he did, he consulted with Rene Levesque, He did not consult with the people of this Province, he consults with the Leader of the Opposition and gives him the information . They refuse,themselves, to negotioate themselves on the offshore .

All of these factors are harmful to the people of this Provice, and how he ever expects the people of Ne\._rfoundland to accept this, I do not know . SOME HON . ME•MERS : Oh, oh ! MR . f.tARSRALL: And it sounds so reasonable people w.ill say, "Oh , \._rhy do you not negotiate"? J3ecause- MR . CftAIRMAN (l\ylward) : Order, please! MR . MARSHALL: - neqotiate sounds fine . MR . CHAIRMAN(Aylward) : Order . MR . MARSHALL: What \\le have been is trapped into it, Mr . Chairman, with the connivance collusion of Ottawa with Quebec,and the hon . weaklings on the other side will go along with it . SOME liON .

MEMBERS: Hear , hear. ~~ - CHhiRMAN(Aytward) : The hon. the Leader of the Opposition . MR . NEARY : Mr . Chairman, there is a classic example of the kind of bile and poison that we have been hearing now in this Province for ten years . The actual fact of the matter 2801

June 15, 1982 Tape No. 1319 IB-1 MR. NEARY: is,Mr. Chairman, there have never been any meaningful negotiations carried on by this Province. MR. TULK: MR. NEARY: There he goes now, look. Now the hon. gentleman runs away. Mr. Chairman, the only time that negotiations had any chance at all was when the member for Mount Scio (Mr. Barry), the former ~1inister of Energy was involved in the negotiations. Then they had a half a chance. If the Minister of Justice (Mr.Ottenheimer) was involved in the negotiations the matter would have been resolved years ago.

The hon. minister is a gentleman and a negotiator, a skilled negotiator. But what we have here, Mr. Chairman, is a skinful of hate, a skinful cf hate, Mr. Chairman, aiding and abetting and advising the Premier who is listening to the hon. gentleman, who is putting Newfoundland down the economic drain. And, Mr. Chairman, I will submit to this House that nothing will happen in the way of meaningful negotiations,or the resolving of the problems between Ottawa and this Province, between Quebec and this Province, between anyone else and this Province, until the hon. gentleman is put out to pasture.

The hon. gentleman got the flick once before out of the Cabinet. You know, Mr. Chairman, the hon. gentleman just made statements that were absolutely unbelievable. The hon. gentleman was accusing the Opposition of cosying up to this one, in this one's pocket, their friends here and their friends there, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, these statements had absolutely no foundation. They were a figment of the hon. gentleman's narrow-mindedness and tis bigotry. They were figments of his little buttoned-down mind. They were figments of his little narrow mind and his buttoned-down Tory mind. Mr.

Chairman, they had nothing to do with (act, nothing to do with reality 7 they had to do 2502

...:_ June 15, 1982 Tape No. 1319 IB-2 MR. NEARY: with some kind of a little vicious mind that the hon. gentleman has, a vicious buttoned-down mind and bigotry on the part of the hon. gentleman. The hon. the Premier (Mr. Peckford), by the way, Mr. Chairman, cannot refer to residents of Quebec as Canadians. The hon. the Premier has repeatedly referred 2803

June 15, 1982 Tape No. 1320 PS - 1 MR. NEARY: to residents of Quebec as French Canadians. They do not refer to us as English speaking canadians. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, no? MR. NEARY: No they do not. MR. RIDEOUT: What do you call them? MR. NEARY: And you talk about poison and venom, Mr. Chairman, who was it said in this House that the water of the Lower Churchill will flow into the Atlantic until hell freezes over. MR. DINN: Rene Levesque said we will not have a transmission line until hell freezes over. MR. NEARY: Mr.

Chairman, the fact if the matter is, that han. gentleman has a little narrow, buttoned-down, bigoted mind, and there have never been any meaningful negotiations carried on. And what upsets the han. gentleman so much is this, that these letters, I hope, will be made public. Now, what I would like to see, Mr. Chairman, are those two letters published side by side with the statements, the irresponsible statements made by the Premier of this Province (Mr. Peckford) and made by his Minister of Energy (Mr. Marshall), the Siamese twins. MR. TULK: The real thing. MR.

NEARY: Publish the letters side by side with the statements made by the great pretender and by the real Premier, the Minister of Energy, and let the people decide who the real culprit is in these matters, let the people. Mr. Chairman, the han. gentleman is upset because the han. gentleman is afraid that he people of this Province will see the truth and they will see through the gigantic bluff that has been carried on by this administration for the last ten years. 2804

June 15, 198 2 Tape 1320 PS - 2 MR . NEARY : And what a bluff it has been , Mr . Chairman. They arc afraid they are going to be exposed for perpertrating a glgantic fraud on the people of this Province , that is what they are afraid of . Mr. Chairman , here are the two letters . Any fair -minded ~anadian, any fair-minded resident of Quebec or Nev lfoundland reading these two letters would say , 'There you go,that is a re asonable and fair proposition .

Now why do the parties not go ba .ck to the bargaining table and negotiate in good faith and after six months, if they do not resolve their problems ,then the act will be proclaimed! DR. COLLINS : MR. NEARY : in his lett ers . MR . TOBIN : Oh, who said that? Who said it? Mr . Lalonde said it right The news pap ers would not publish them . MR . NEARY : Mr. Chairm an, the fact of the matter is that this is a ve ry realistic and reasonable proposal .

And wha t it is asking is both parties - it is not only askina this rrovernment, it is also treating the govern ment of Quebec in exactly the same man ner as it is treating this ~b 05

June 15, 1982 Tape No. 1321 IB-1 MR. NEARY: government in saying, 'Let us get back to the bargaining table and let us negotiate a settlement. And after three months, if you cannot resolve your problems,then we will proclaim the legislation', Now, Mr. Chairman, who does that put at a disadvantage? The hon. gentleman tries to leave the impression it puts the negotiating team from Newfoundland at a disadvantage. Well, Mr.

Chairman, I think it puts this Province at an advantage, because they are going into negotiations with an assurance in their pocket, in their hip pocket, that if Quebec does not come to their senses and bargain in good faith,that the act will be proclaimed forcing a power corridor across the Province of Quebec. Now that is a nice little thing to have in your back pocket when you go to the negotiating table, Mr. Chairman.

So I would appeal to this administration to stop squirting their venom and their poison, to stop their hatred and their prejudice, to stop making inflammatory remarks, stop their warmongering, stop their insulting and rude remarks. And the hon. gentleman is an expert at it, the ultimate in nastiness. Mr. Chairman, if you want to prolong the war in the Falkland Islands,send down the hon. gentleman. If you want to prolong the war in Palestine,between Palestine and Israel, sc'n over the hon. gentleman. And if you want to start the third world war, I would sungest that you make the hon. qentleman Minister of Defence.

SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. NEARY: Send the hon. Minister of Energy (Mr. Marshall) to the United Nations and I guarantee you within twenty-four hours you will have a third world war started, Mr. Chairman. And, Mr. Chairman, this accomplishes nothing for Newfoundland or for the people of this Province, no more than it accomplishes~nything for the Province of 26JG

June 15, 1982 Tape No. 1321 IB-2 MR. NEARY: Quebec. MR. STAGG: Sit down now. MR. NEARY: Mr. Chairman, what are negotiations? Do I have to go through that again? What are negotiations? Are negotiations the way that the Premier and the Minister of Energy (Mr. Marshall) want it done? You do it our way or you do not do it at all, is that negotiations? MR. TOBIN: It is our right. It is our right. MR. NRJ\RY: What is our right? MR. TOBIN: You know what is our right. MR. NEARY: What is it? I challenge the hon. gentleman to get up and tell us what is our right. What is our riqht? What is our right? MR.

TOBIN: To transport power through Quebec. MR. NEARY: Oh, it is our right, I see. The Province of Quebec does not have any rights. MR. TOBIN: What about the rights of Alberta? MR. NEARY: Yes,what about it? MR. TOBIN: The right to go through the rest of the provinces . MR. NEARY: On what? On what? MR. TOBIN: To transmit power. MR. NEARY: Ori a pipeline. MR. TOBIN: Yes. MR. NEARY: Mr. Chairman, the Province of Alberta can run a pipeline, a gas pipeline or an oil pipeline through a province only if the province agrees to it. MR. TOBIN: MR. NEARY: What is Confederation all about?

Is the hon. gentleman trying to tell me that if Newfoundland did not want a pipeline, if Newfoundland - 2BU7

June 15, 1982 MR. CHAIRMAN (Aylward) : time has elapsed. MR. S. NEARY: Mr. Chairman. MR. CHAIRMAN: ( Mr. Stagg ) . MR. F. STAGG: SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. STAGG: the Legislature­ MR. BAIRD: MR. STAGG: MR. BAIRD: MR. STAGG: Tape No. 1322 MLeP-1 Order please! The hon. gentlemans Oh. T will be back on it again, 'l'he hon. the Member for Stephenville. Mr. Chairman­ Hear, hear! - I have been away for awhile from How lucky vou are . and I certainly- Running away. Running away. - certainly believe that very little has changed here so far as the Opposition's position is concerned.

We have the same old story from the Opposition Liberals, on the one hand they say they the Province, they have supported a resolution put forward recently condemning the federal government in there actions concernin0 the reference of the offshore dispute to the Supreme Court. So that is what they did, they did the vote but, unfortunately, every other action that they take in the House of Assembly is subversive. They are a group of subversives, Mr. Chairman- MR. STAGG: - they are apologists for the federal liberals, they are apologists for Mr. Chretien and Mr. Lalonde and especially Mr .

Rompkey, who appears to be the only source of employment for defeated Liberals. All the Liberals who were defeated in the provincial election of April 6th, are now on Mr. Rompkey;s door looking for a job, and I understand Mr. Rompkey is coming through in some respects. ~~ 8 0 8

June 15, 1982 Tape No. 1322 ~tLeP-2 MR. F. STAGG: Now, ~lr. Chairman, what I wculd like for the Opposition to deal with in this debate since it has turned into an energy debate, and I understand that we are on the Premier 's Office, on the estimates concerning the Premier's Office- is that not correct?- but, as usual, debate is far ­ ranging and relevance is streched to the extremes, so the order of the day has been to attack the energy policy of the Province . Can you imagine the Opposition Liberals in this House attacking the energy policy of this government?

The people of this Province in no uncertain terms told everyone- they spoke, and they said, ' We support the valiant courageous efforts of this government and this t')roup - AN HON . MEMBER : !lear, hear! MR . STAGG : - of individuals in their fight for there resources of this Province.' They said it in no uncertain terms . This is the u1timate gallop poll , Mr . Chairman, the ultimate gallop poll, when the government puts itself on the line and goes out and says, ' Do you support us or do you not?' And the people have said in no uncertain terms that they do . Now, Mr.

Chiarman, the Opposition Liberals have, 2809 ..

Jrme 15, 1982 Tape No. 1323 IB-1 MR. STAGG: on many occasions,come to the rescue,or their version of the rescue,of the federal Liberals and it is something that they will regret. I would say they do regret it. But their sense of partisanship is such that when they are confronted with someone attacking a Liberal,their first response is a sort of a'need your response~ someone attacks a Liberal,'I must defend him~ Now,there was a spontaneous declaration by the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) early in the session, something that he would like to have gone unrecorded.

But when one of our members here indicated - I believe it may have been the Premier who indicated ::hat he would not trust Mr. Lalonde as far as he