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October 4, 2000

37th Parliament, 1st Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcript 2000-Oct-04 (PDF)

L084 - Wed 4 Oct 2000 / Mer 4 oct 2000

WEARING OF RIBBONS

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

WATER QUALITY

WALK TO SCHOOL DAY

CARMEN ROAD OVERPASS

HOLY NAME OF MARY SCHOOL

SCHOOL EXTRACURRICULAR ACTIVITIES

ROSH HASHANAH

DOCTOR SHORTAGE

TEMBEC

EDUCATION REFORM

VISITOR

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

RED TAPE REDUCTION ACT, 2000 / LOI DE 2000 VISANT À RÉDUIRE LES FORMALITÉS ADMINISTRATIVES

HIGHWAY TRAFFIC AMENDMENT ACT (IGNITION INTERLOCK DEVICE), 2000 / LOI DE 2000 MODIFIANT LE CODE DE LA ROUTE (DISPOSITIF DE VERROUILLAGE DU SYSTÈME DE DÉMARRAGE)

ONTARIO WATER RESOURCES AMENDMENT ACT (WATER TAKING PERMIT NOTIFICATION), 2000 / LOI DE 2000 MODIFIANT LA

LOI SUR LES RESSOURCES EN EAU DE L'ONTARIO (AVIS RELATIFS AUX PERMIS DE PRÉLÈVEMENT D'EAU)

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY AND RESPONSES

RED TAPE REDUCTION

DEFERRED VOTES

MCMICHAEL CANADIAN ART COLLECTION AMENDMENT ACT, 2000 / LOI DE 2000 MODIFIANT LA

LOI SUR LA COLLECTION MCMICHAEL D'ART CANADIEN

ORAL QUESTIONS

ONTARIANS WITH DISABILITIES LEGISLATION

WASTE MANAGEMENT

WALKERTON TRAGEDY

AIR AMBULANCE SERVICE

SERVICES FOR THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION

SYL APPS AWARDS

FOREST MANAGEMENT

WASTE MANAGEMENT

HYDRO RATES

HAMILTON-WENTWORTH DETENTION CENTRE

INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY

PETITIONS

NORTHERN HEALTH TRAVEL GRANT

CHILD POVERTY

MCMICHAEL CANADIAN ART COLLECTION

WATER EXTRACTION

OCCUPATIONAL HEALTH AND SAFETY

EDUCATION LEGISLATION

FARMFARE PROGRAM

LIQUOR CONTROL BOARD OF ONTARIO

OCCUPATIONAL HEALTH AND SAFETY

NORTHERN HEALTH TRAVEL GRANT

HIGHWAY SAFETY

NORTHERN HEALTH TRAVEL GRANT

ORDERS OF THE DAY

DOMESTIC VIOLENCE PROTECTION ACT, 2000 / LOI DE 2000 SUR LA PROTECTION CONTRE LA VIOLENCE FAMILIALE

VISITORS

The House met at 1330.

Prayers.

WEARING OF RIBBONS

Mr Dave Levac (Brant): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: October is Child Abuse Prevention Month, and all the members of the Legislature have received some materials and information regarding a purple ribbon campaign. I seek unanimous consent of the House to be able to wear the purple ribbons during that important time.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Agreed? Agreed.

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

WATER QUALITY

Mr Michael A. Brown (Algoma-Manitoulin): I want to bring to the attention of all members of this House the unacceptable position of the people of Bruce Mines and Plummer Additional township. For months the townsfolk have been under a boil order for their communal water supply, this same communal water service that was downloaded from the province of Ontario without the necessary upgrades demanded by the town.

The town has been working very hard to remedy this situation, but clearly the town of 600 people cannot afford to provide the necessary upgrades to the filtration system itself. So where's the province? The Minister of the Environment refuses to meet with Mayor Jean Kettles. The minister of Niagara development and wines is absent without leave. The ministers need to step up to the plate and assure the town that the necessary capital funding is in place.

Businesses in Bruce Mines have undertaken expensive and extensive additions to their water systems just to stay in business. The people of Bruce Mines and Plummer Additional need commitments from this government today. They need the province to do more than lecture, impose costs, download and hand out report cards. They need a government which will commit dollars to solve problems. They don't need a government which has spent $12 million since Walkerton on cleaning up its image. They need a government that will work with communities to clean up the water.

WALK TO SCHOOL DAY

Mrs Brenda Elliott (Guelph-Wellington): It gives me great pleasure to announce that the students at Gateway Drive and Westwood public schools of Guelph, in my riding of Guelph-Wellington, will be among hundreds of elementary schools and students across Canada and around the world who are participating today in a special event designed to make streets safer, make communities safer and improve the health of students and the environment. Walk to School Day is taking place across Canada, the US, the United Kingdom and other countries.

By encouraging parents and caregivers to walk their students to school instead of transporting them by vehicle, this annual event promotes physical activity, reduces air pollution from automobiles, and creates safer communities through reduced traffic hazards and more eyes on the street.

Walk to School Day is also an excellent opportunity for parents to spend some quality time with their children. This special day alleviates traffic congestion around schools at the beginning and close of each day and is part of a larger, ongoing effort to see students use their own transportation, like walking, biking and in-line skating, wherever possible.

Greenest City's Active and Safe Routes to School program was launched in 1996, following the success of similar programs in the UK, Australia, Japan and the United States. It addresses the physical inactivity of many Canadian children and of course contributes to the long-term health of our environment.

It's my view that this is a terrific initiative. I heartily congratulate the schools in my riding that have decided to partake in this heart-healthy and environmentally friendly event.

CARMEN ROAD OVERPASS

Mr John C. Cleary (Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh): Yesterday I questioned the Minister of Transportation on bridges and overpasses in my riding. Later in the day I presented a petition by the Stormont-Dundas chamber of commerce and signed by 500 people concerning the disrepair of the Carmen Road overpass. This is a serious issue of public safety, and I want to take this opportunity to ensure that the government members are listening.

There are currently six overpasses in my riding that need repairs. Three of these overpasses are in such ter rible condition that the municipality had no choice but to impose load limits and, in some cases, limit traffic to one lane. With traffic limited to one lane, it significantly increases the risk of accidents. It is only a matter of time until someone gets hurt or killed. The load limits force trucks, firetrucks, school buses and emergency vehicles to take alternative routes to get to their destination; increase the response time; and put innocent people's lives in jeopardy.

The current condition of these bridges and overpasses also negatively impacts the business community. In the town of Iroquois it is feared that many businesses will suffer financial hardship and possible bankruptcy if the Carmen Road overpass, which leads through the heart of town, isn't fixed immediately, and the same in other parts of the county.

I thank you very much, Mr Speaker, and I would suggest that the government use some of their political advertising money.

HOLY NAME OF MARY SCHOOL

Mr Bert Johnson (Perth-Middlesex): Last Thursday I had the opportunity to attend the opening and blessing of the new addition to Holy Name of Mary, an elementary school in St Mary's. This was a special celebration for both current and former staff and students.

Following the official welcome by principal Joe MacDonald and grade 5 teacher Sue Longfield-you'll remember that Sue was here May 23 with her grade 5 class-and presentations by special guests, the students of Holy Name of Mary school put on a skit to mark this special occasion. The celebration then wrapped up with a barbecue and open house.

I was pleased to be part of this official opening and I congratulate the Huron-Perth Catholic District School Board and the Holy Name of Mary school in St Mary's for their hard work in making this new building a reality. This new addition has eliminated the need for portables at Holy Name of Mary school. Students will now have first-rate classrooms and washroom facilities in a convenient, permanent location.

I am pleased to be part of a government that has invested in education and brought excellence to our schools. We are a government that has spent a record $13.2 billion on education in the 1999-2000 school year. Clearly, Holy Name of Mary school in St Mary's is just one of those schools in my riding of Perth-Middlesex that are benefiting from our reforms.

Again I congratulate the students, staff and the alumni of Holy Name of Mary school and I wish them the very best for the future.

SCHOOL EXTRACURRICULAR ACTIVITIES

Mr Michael Gravelle (Thunder Bay-Superior North): I want to use my time today to try to convey to the Minister of Education the anger, frustration and disappointment that have been felt by high school students in my community of Thunder Bay and northwestern Ontario over the loss of extracurricular activities this school year. Whether it's on the football field or the student council, the impact of this loss is affecting thousands of students, whose growth and potential are being threatened as a result and whose enjoyment of their high school years has been severely diminished.

I've heard from hundreds of those students, and their voices need to be heard. Many of these students and their parents are actively working on a solution to this situation and, in doing so, are striving not to take sides. They simply want extracurricular activities to be part of their high school experience again. For that, I applaud them.

But the truth is that it is very much within the power of the Minister of Education to solve this problem. By giving boards of education more flexibility regarding the definition of instructional time, we can move toward a solution. With that flexibility, the school band can rehearse as needed for the regular band concerts we all enjoy. Without that flexibility, the band may simply cease to exist.

I understand, Minister, that you have moved down this road quite deliberately, first with Bill 160 and now with Bill 74. But today I am imploring you, on behalf of the high school students in Thunder Bay, to recognize the damage your legislation has brought about. Put away the hammer and do the right thing. High school students deserve a full educational experience, and it is absolutely within your power to see it properly returned to them.

ROSH HASHANAH

Mr David Young (Willowdale): Today, Jews around the world are observing the Days of Awe, more commonly known as the High Holy Days. The High Holy Days begin with Rosh Hashanah, the Jewish New Year, and end 10 days later with Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement.

Rosh Hashanah is a day of judgment, a day of remembrance, of introspection and of repentance. Rosh Hashanah is also a day of optimism. On Rosh Hashanah it is customary for families to attend their local synagogues and also to gather together for a holiday meal. Traditional foods sweetened with honey, apples and carrots are served, symbolizing sweetness, blessings, abundance and hope for the new year. A special prayer is recited: "May it be thy will, O Lord, our God, to grant us a year that is good and sweet."

Yom Kippur is the most solemn day of the Jewish year and is celebrated on the 10th day. Yom Kippur is a day of fasting, of reflection and of prayer.

I would like to extend to members of the Jewish community in my riding, in this province, across Canada and around the world a healthy, peaceful and happy New Year. La Shana Tova.

DOCTOR SHORTAGE

Mrs Sandra Pupatello (Windsor West): Last week I spoke of Eva. Eva is an 85-year-old constituent of mine who has been waiting a year and a half to see a specialist, a neurosurgeon, about a degenerative disc which her family doctor says is certain to require surgery. Today, after a very busy week, we can confirm that we now have out-of-country support, through OHIP, to send her to Detroit within a couple of weeks to have that very necessary consultation with a neurosurgeon.

What I ask this House is, is this an optimal solution? I say no. What we want are very real solutions for the people of Windsor. But this is precedent-setting, because she is going there for the consultation and may in fact have to go there for required surgery. I'm asking our family doctors to do a review of their files and ask themselves, do we have Windsor patients who are waiting far too long for their consultation with specialists?

With the lack of government action on this issue, with a lack of government leadership, for an underserviced area where we lack significant numbers of specialists and family doctors this is only an interim solution, but I'm asking our family doctors to do a very thorough review. Windsor patients deserve to have the same level of care that exists in areas that have sufficient numbers of doctors.

I am asking the government to come forward with very meaningful solutions to a very significant problem.

TEMBEC

Mr Gilles Bisson (Timmins-James Bay): On Friday of this week I had the pleasure to participate in a very interesting project that was started by Tembec up in Timmins. What they are doing is trying to find a way to provide opportunities for First Nations communities across the north to deal with trying to find economic opportunity and hope for those people.

What was interesting was that for the first time we have seen a forest company in northern Ontario do such an undertaking. I want to underline my congratulations to Martin Michaud and Pierre Corbeil, the two people who spearheaded this initiative to bring the First Nations people and the companies to the table to try to find some mechanism by which we are able to deal with providing hope and opportunity for First Nations people across their area.

What was interesting was that Ed Sackney and Allan Linklater, who were both First Nations people working on this project, undertook a survey in the company to find out just how much first-line managers understood about First Nations communities around their mills. It was actually fairly interesting, the number of things they didn't know as front-line managers.

I think this is the beginning of a process to open the dialogue necessary to give First Nations people and the companies a way to find a way forward in helping to develop the economy in northern Ontario.

I want to say to the government directly: you're not at the table. We need you to play the role that Minister Snobelen and other ministers should be playing in making sure that the province is there, not just letting the First Nations and the employers do it alone but that the government takes its responsibility as well.

EDUCATION REFORM

Mr Doug Galt (Northumberland): I rise in the House today to talk about an invitation from the member for Parkdale-High Park to visit a school this fall. Frankly, I am pleased to see that the Liberal caucus is finally taking an active interest in visiting our schools and encouraging dialogue with teachers and students.

Since my election in 1995, I've visited many local schools, including visits to classrooms at St Mary's Secondary School in Cobourg, Trenton High School in Quinte West, and East Northumberland Secondary School in Brighton. Those are just a few.

In May 2000, the Minister of Education and I visited Camborne Public School, where we met with students, teachers and parents on the school council. We spent the afternoon with the teaching staff, listening to their concerns and answering their questions. Overall it was a very enjoyable and informative experience.

I must say to the members across the House, especially to the member for Parkdale-High Park, you are rather late in organizing these visits. But, as they say, better late than never. It's better late than never for the members opposite to learn about the success of our government's education reforms. I sincerely hope the opposition's intention is to learn about how we can further improve the education system and not to attempt to score cheap political points at the expense of students, teachers and parents.

VISITOR

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Before we begin, we have in the Speaker's gallery today the former member for Elgin, Peter North, who was the member in the 35th and 36th Parliaments, if all members could welcome our former member.

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

RED TAPE REDUCTION ACT, 2000 / LOI DE 2000 VISANT À RÉDUIRE LES FORMALITÉS ADMINISTRATIVES

Mr Hodgson moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 119,

An Act to reduce red tape, to promote good government through better management of Ministries and agencies and to improve customer service by amending or repealing certain Acts and by enacting two new Acts / Projet de loi 119, Loi visant à réduire les formalités administratives, à promouvoir un bon gouvernement par une meilleure gestion des ministères et organismes et à améliorer le service à la clientèle en modifiant ou abrogeant certaines lois et en édictant deux nouvelles lois.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

The minister for a short statement.

Hon Chris Hodgson (Chair of the Management Board of Cabinet): I'd like to do a ministerial statement.

HIGHWAY TRAFFIC AMENDMENT ACT (IGNITION INTERLOCK DEVICE), 2000 / LOI DE 2000 MODIFIANT LE CODE DE LA ROUTE (DISPOSITIF DE VERROUILLAGE DU SYSTÈME DE DÉMARRAGE)

Mr Dunlop moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 120,

An Act to amend the Highway Traffic Act to establish an Ignition interlock device program / Projet de loi 120, Loi modifiant le Code de la route afin d'établir un programme d'utilisation de dispositifs de verrouillage du système de démarrage.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

The member for a short statement.

Mr Garfield Dunlop (Simcoe North): This act provides for the implementation of an alcohol ignition interlock program for the province of Ontario.

ONTARIO WATER RESOURCES AMENDMENT ACT (WATER TAKING PERMIT NOTIFICATION), 2000 / LOI DE 2000 MODIFIANT LA

LOI SUR LES RESSOURCES EN EAU DE L'ONTARIO (AVIS RELATIFS AUX PERMIS DE PRÉLÈVEMENT D'EAU)

Mrs Dombrowsky moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 121,

An Act to amend the Ontario Water Resources Act with respect to water taking permit notification / Projet de loi 121, Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les ressources en eau de l'Ontario à l'égard des avis relatifs aux permis de prélèvement d'eau.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

The member for a short statement.

Mrs Leona Dombrowsky (Hastings-Frontenac-Lennox and Addington): The purpose of the Ontario Water Resources Amendment Act (Water Taking Permit Notification), 2000, is to require the director to notify a municipality and/or a conservation authority of an application for a permit to take water that, if granted, will affect or is likely to affect its water supply. At the present time, municipalities and conservation authorities are not notified of these permits, which can have significant implications for land use planning and watershed management. This change has been requested by a number of provincial organizations, including the Association of Municipalities of Ontario.

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY AND RESPONSES

RED TAPE REDUCTION

Hon Chris Hodgson (Chair of the Management Board of Cabinet): The Mike Harris government was elected and re-elected with a mandate to make government more efficient, lower taxes, create a positive climate for job growth and cut red tape. We're doing just that. We've listened to the public's concerns and we're responding with the passage of red tape reduction bills.

Today I have tabled the Red Tape Reduction Act, 2000, which builds on previous bills already passed by our government. This bill reflects the government's continuous fight against unnecessary rules and regulations that put a burden on businesses and get in the way of providing better services to the public. This bill offers the latest proposals to cut red tape in 15 ministries. If passed, it would remove two unused acts from the books and streamline 75 acts to provide improved customer service and more efficient government.

Among the changes, the act proposes to eliminate the requirement to apply for a change of name within 90 days of marriage. In these busy times, this requirement is restrictive and forces Ontarians to take this action within an arbitrary time.

This act proposes to protect consumers by prohibiting the charging of significant upfront fees by credit repair companies for services that consumers can do for themselves at little or no cost.

This act proposes to provide insurance benefits to volunteer auxiliary police officers if they are injured while providing service.

Mr Speaker, as you know, red tape reduction is about making it easier, faster and less expensive for both business and the public when dealing with government, encouraging investment in Ontario by breaking down barriers to conduct and manage businesses, simplifying processes to reduce overlap with other legislation and improving overall efficiency in customer service and, finally, harmonizing and modernizing legislation among ministries.

I believe this bill provides us with another opportunity to meet these goals. I would encourage all members of this House to support this bill.

Mr Bruce Crozier (Essex): I am pleased to rise today to respond to this very minimal introduction that the minister has given when what he is really going to do is amend 75 statutes and eliminate two of them.

I take particular note of part of his statement where he says that "red tape reduction is about making it easier, faster and less expensive for both business and the public."

We know that in the past, these guys have taken the environmental act and they've gutted it. That has made it easier for business. But you know, it makes it easier to pollute. Things were easier when the Walkerton tragedy occurred. We're going to want to look very closely at this to see that there isn't the same kind of reduction in regulations that led to the tragedy in Walkerton.

We know now that there's less red tape when it comes to amusement rides. We know what's happened there. There have been more people injured on amusement rides since the government got out of the business.

That part of the bill where they're going to reduce the fees for credit repair companies I take to mean that where someone's credit rating has been misused or abused, they're going to reduce the fee the companies charge to get that corrected. If they protected the consumer in the first place, you wouldn't have to go through any kind of fee like that.

I'm surprised that they even consider reducing fees when they've downloaded so much on to municipalities and fees have been increased so dramatically. Maybe they should have taken note about fees then. We had the Minister of Municipal Affairs just within the past day or two say he's going to make municipalities more accountable, he's going to make them report. What more red tape can that be? Why don't you talk to the Minister of Municipal Affairs?

Minister, we don't mind when you try to help people. You've mentioned two items here where, yes, it will make it easier for name changes and some changes in insurance for auxiliary officers. We don't mind when you help people. When you help those who should protect our environment, when you help those who are in our municipalities, our municipal government, we don't mind that either. But you're making it more difficult, and you're making it more dangerous in some cases, by your mad rush to eliminate regulations and what you call red tape.

We're going to be looking very closely at this, and if there's anything in this bundle of paper that takes away protection from the people who live in the province of Ontario, we're going to be asking you about that and you're going to be accountable for it, just the same as you have to be accountable for what happened in Walkerton.

Mr Dwight Duncan (Windsor-St Clair): There is one small provision tucked into this bill dealing with the Compensation for Victims of Crime Act. I'm surprised that the Attorney General didn't speak to it. Actually, I'm not surprised.

My constituent Mr Montforton's benefits ran out seven months ago and this Attorney General has done nothing at all since then to help him and his family. You should be ashamed of that. You did not respond to our letters. You did not respond to our calls. You talk a good game when it comes to victims' rights, and the amount of increase doesn't even keep up with inflation. You ought to be ashamed of it. It's no wonder you hid it in this bill, a bill that deals with a whole bunch of things, a number of things that need careful and clear consideration.

You people talk a good game when it comes to victims of criminal acts, but you let someone who is the first person in Ontario whose benefits ran out wait seven months. You were notified more than a year ago that this problem was coming. You were told repeatedly in letters, in questions in this House and in statements, and what did you do? You ignored his pleas, you ignored the pleas of the official opposition, you ignored the pleas of Dalton McGuinty, my leader, and now you tuck your measly little response into a bill where it's hidden so you can hide your own crime, a crime where you ignored a victim, someone who was left in a wheelchair because of crime.

So I look at this and I have to smile. The message and the reality are very different for this government: all talk, no action; too late; and you didn't even raise the limits enough to compensate for inflation.

Mr Tony Martin (Sault Ste Marie): Here we go again: another political exercise by a government running out of meaningful things to do, trotting out another red tape bill. There's enough paper here to choke a horse.

This red tape bill was promised in the Common Sense Revolution and people out there actually thought you were going to do something where red tape is concerned, something meaningful and something helpful, and they were supportive of that. We would be supportive over here if there was truly a red tape bill here that was going to help government be more efficient and deliver programs more effectively and actually help people out there.

Alas, as we saw with the last red tape bills-and we keep seeing them go through here; this is probably the third package we've had in the last six years-what we have is another Trojan Horse.

It isn't about getting rid of red tape; rather, it's about doing away with very important regulation to support the agenda of this government, which is very clearly and simply to reduce government spending and to give tax breaks, to reduce government and to allow the private sector free rein to exploit and to pillage with no concern about environmental standards, about employment standards or about health and safety regulations.

They are but a few of the things that are being attacked by this government in the use of this Trojan Horse, red tape bill that they keep trotting out here and running before us time after time.

We've had a number of very troubling examples of what you and some of your overheated backbenchers are wanting to do by reducing red tape in this province. Last week Marilyn Churley, our critic for the environment, introduced Bill 96, the Safe Drinking Water Act. The Minister of the Environment, instead of taking it seriously, instead of taking a look at it and deciding what in it they could use, how they could help us make sure that we protect the water of this province, called it just more red tape. If that's red tape, then we're in trouble here as we look at this package, because we don't know what's in here.

We have no idea what little gems are hidden inside this mass of paper that we have in front of us here today. Call it just more red tape.

Can you imagine the Minister of the Environment, after what we've experienced in Walkerton and what has unfolded in this province over the last few months where safe, clean drinking water is concerned, responding to a bill coming forward in all seriousness from this side of the House to protect the drinking water of this province and calling it simply "an exercise in adding more red tape to this very important ministry," an exercise he should have more interest in? That is what happens when you ideologically reduce standards and regulations under the guise of reducing red tape.

You put lives at risk; you put communities at risk. Water becomes unsafe, communities become unsafe and workplaces become unsafe.

Who knows what's in this bill? For example, just in the couple of minutes we had to take a look at it I saw a clause in the introductory

section on page 8 that says that the government will be given the right to dismiss an appeal without holding a hearing where an appellant has not responded to a request by the board for further information within the time specified by the board. Rights that we thought we took for granted, that we thought were enshrined in the law of this land, now have been just tossed out under the guise of reducing red tape.

Even some of the government ministers have been taken by surprise. For example, when Frank Sheehan brought forward the results of the work of the infamous Red Tape Commission last year, it had in it pieces that would slash the Labour Relations Act of this province, going further than even the minister, Mr Stockwell, wanted to go. Can you imagine suggesting in this province in the year 2000 that we should drop the Rand formula under the guise of red tape?

But we only have to look at the origins of some of this red tape reduction to understand how ridiculous and foolish and un-thought-out this is. The Red Tape Commission falls under the aegis of the same orders as the gas busters and the crime commission in this province, and you know what a joke they were and what a job they did and how it's about nothing but public relations for this government.

I'm asking the government today to rethink their program, rethink their platform, consider the safety of the drinking water of this province and the people of this province, consider the safety of communities, consider the safety of workers and stop bringing in red tape. If you want to do something, do it through regular line ministries and involve us in that process so we do something right instead of this sham that we have today.

DEFERRED VOTES

MCMICHAEL CANADIAN ART COLLECTION AMENDMENT ACT, 2000 / LOI DE 2000 MODIFIANT LA

LOI SUR LA COLLECTION MCMICHAEL D'ART CANADIEN

Deferred vote on the motion for second reading of Bill 112,

An Act to amend the McMichael Canadian Art Collection Act / Projet de loi 112, Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la Collection McMichael d'art canadien.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Call in the members. This will be a five-minute bell.

The division bells rang from 1405 to 1410.

The Speaker: All those in favour of the motion will please rise one at a time and be recognized by the Clerk.

Ayes

Baird, John R.

Barrett, Toby

Beaubien, Marcel

Chudleigh, Ted

Clement, Tony

Coburn, Brian

DeFaria, Carl

Dunlop, Garfield

Ecker, Janet

Elliott, Brenda

Flaherty, Jim

Galt, Doug

Gilchrist, Steve

Gill, Raminder

Guzzo, Garry J.

Hardeman, Ernie

Hastings, John

Hodgson, Chris

Hudak, Tim

Jackson, Cameron

Johns, Helen

Johnson, Bert

Kells, Morley

Klees, Frank

Marland, Margaret

Maves, Bart

Mazzilli, Frank

Molinari, Tina R.

Munro, Julia

Mushinski, Marilyn

Newman, Dan

Ouellette, Jerry J.

Palladini, Al

Runciman, Robert W.

Sampson, Rob

Snobelen, John

Spina, Joseph

Sterling, Norman W.

Stewart, R. Gary

Tascona, Joseph N.

Tilson, David

Turnbull, David

Wettlaufer, Wayne

Wilson, Jim

Wood, Bob

Young, David

The Speaker: All those opposed to the motion will please rise one at a time to be recognized by the Clerk.

Nays

Agostino, Dominic

Bartolucci, Rick

Bisson, Gilles

Bountrogianni, Marie

Boyer, Claudette

Bradley, James J.

Brown, Michael A.

Bryant, Michael

Christopherson, David

Cleary, John C.

Colle, Mike

Conway, Sean G.

Crozier, Bruce

Curling, Alvin

Di Cocco, Caroline

Dombrowsky, Leona

Duncan, Dwight

Gerretsen, John

Gravelle, Michael

Hampton, Howard

Kwinter, Monte

Lalonde, Jean-Marc

Lankin, Frances

Levac, David

Marchese, Rosario

Martin, Tony

McGuinty, Dalton

McLeod, Lyn

McMeekin, Ted

Parsons, Ernie

Patten, Richard

Peters, Steve

Phillips, Gerry

Pupatello, Sandra

Ramsay, David

Ruprecht, Tony

Smitherman, George

Clerk of the House (Mr Claude L. DesRosiers): The ayes are 46; the nays are 37.

The Speaker: I declare the motion carried.

Shall the bill be ordered for third reading?

Hon Helen Johns (Minister of Citizenship, Culture and Recreation, minister responsible for seniors and women): Referred to the general government committee, please.

The Speaker: So referred.

ORAL QUESTIONS

ONTARIANS WITH DISABILITIES LEGISLATION

Mr Dalton McGuinty (Leader of the Opposition): My first question today is for the Minister of Citizenship, Culture and Recreation. Minister, we in our party believe that people with disabilities should have every possible and reasonable entitlement to opportunity and to getting everything they need to find success in Ontario. Mike Harris promised to enact a strong Ontarians with Disabilities Act by the end of his first term, and he broke that promise. Last November, you promised a tough new act to meet the needs of people with disabilities.

Minister, you will shortly be breaking that promise too. I have here in my hand a copy of a secret cabinet briefing document presented by you. It's dated Tuesday, August 29 of this year. This is presented to cabinet's most powerful committee, and in this you make it abundantly clear that you have no intention whatsoever of putting into place any kind of legislation that is going to advance the cause of persons with disabilities here in Ontario. Why are you continuing to betray the rights of people with disabilities in Ontario?

Hon Helen Johns (Minister of Citizenship, Culture and Recreation, minister responsible for seniors and women): Let me just say that the government has made a commitment that we would put forward an action plan in the first session of the House, and we intend to do that. We also made a commitment that we would come forward with legislation by November 2001, and we also intend to do that. We've made a promise in the Legislature.

Let me say that I completely disagree with the member opposite when he says Mike Harris didn't keep his promise. He put forward a bill that the disability community wanted to have another look at, to have some more discussions on, and we certainly have been doing that over the summer. We've done that in the past, and we will continue to do that in the future. We did what the disability community asked us to do: we withdrew the bill and we're working on it again.

Mr McGuinty: Minister, I have a copy of your recommendation to cabinet. It talks about a recommended approach, it talks about your action plan and it talks specifically about a new Ontarians with Disabilities Act. This is pretty good stuff. Listen to this: "This new act is going to use existing mandatory requirements and enforcement." They're going to use the existing Human Rights Code definition of disability, they're going to reference other statutes, and here comes the real teeth of this matter.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Order. Would the member take his seat. Rude comments back and forth are not helpful, I say to the member for Hamilton East. The leader of the official opposition.

Mr McGuinty: In addition to merely referencing existing legislation, the new and compelling legislative objective will be the following-and listen to this; this is nothing less than earth-shattering, groundbreaking and something we're all going to want to write home to our mothers about. It says this government is going to strengthen penalties for unlawful use of disabled parking spaces. That is the earth-shattering, compelling commitment being made by this minister.

I ask again, Minister-this is your document, your recommendation to cabinet-why are you continuing to insult and betray Ontarians with disabilities?

Hon Mrs Johns: Let me be very clear: the legislation and the action plan will be fair and reasonable. We have every intention of moving the bar forward so that people in Ontario have more access to more facilities in the province.

I have to say to the member opposite that I think disabled parking is a problem in this province. I think it's a disgrace that we have people who aren't disabled who have parking passes and use them. I think it's a disgrace that there aren't spots for people with disabilities to be able to park. If you disagree with us, please tell me.

Mr McGuinty: It's of passing interest to see that the minister is showing a little passion when it comes to parking spaces. What about everything else that Ontarians with disabilities need so they can enjoy opportunities in Ontario?

The cynicism which is found throughout this document is nothing less than breathtaking. On page 4 of this minister's document, this champion of Ontarians with disabilities, it says, "Public opinion research has shown that the general public has little awareness and interest in an Ontarians with Disabilities Act." It goes on to say, under "Anticipated Stakeholder Reaction," that "the general public may not have much interest." I want to tell you that we have one hell of a lot of interest in making sure Ontarians with disabilities have every opportunity. We want room for them at the Ontario table.

Why don't you admit you have given up as any kind of champion when it comes to the cause of Ontarians with disabilities?

Hon Mrs Johns: I couldn't disagree more. I see my job as minister responsible for disabilities as building bridges between the disability community and the private sector, the public sector-all communities-so we can all move forward together and lead by example. As everyone in the House will know, the ODSP that we have is the most generous plan in all Canada. This government spends $6 billion annually on services for people with disabilities. That's an increase of-

Interjections.

The Speaker: Order. Would the member for Essex come to order, please. Minister.

Hon Mrs Johns: This government spends $6 billion annually on services for people with disabilities. That's an increase of more than $800 million since Mike Harris came to government in 1995. I don't think anyone can complain about the way we're moving forward. Let me once again confirm that we're coming forward with an action plan, as promised, and with legislation, as promised, to make sure that we move forward in the province of-

The Speaker: The minister's time is up.

New question.

Mr McGuinty: This is for the same minister. Minister, a short while ago I got off the phone with David Lepofsky, who represents Ontarians with disabilities. You met with him on September 8. I want to remind you that your document here that you presented to cabinet is dated August 28. You met with him a week later. You had already taken a hard and fast position.

I told him about this document. He said that during your conversation you assured him that you had an open mind and that you were still in a consultation phase. Now I want you to tell Ontarians with disabilities right now-because they are very, very interested in your answer-why is it that you told their representative-you sat across from him, face to face. He asked you, "Are you still consulting or is your mind made up?" You said, "No, my mind's not made up. I'm still consulting," and yet a week earlier you submitted a recommendation to cabinet which clearly said that your mind was made up. Tell Ontarians with disabilities what this is all about, right now.

Hon Mrs Johns: Let me say that we continue to work on the action plan and the legislation as we speak. I'm always looking for information. In fact, the week before the House came back, I was in Washington looking at the Americans with Disabilities Act and other legislation that the States have, because as you know, when we come forward with legislation here it will be the first in Canada that we will be presenting. I'm looking at jurisdictions all around the world. I'm talking to all of the different ministries within the government to make sure that I understand the services we provide for people.

Let me also say that I've met with Mr Lepofsky more than once. I met with Mr Lepofsky last year at this time and this year at this time. In fact, Mr Lepofsky has had the opportunity of meeting with 13 ministers over the time that this government has been elected.

Mr McGuinty: Minister, if I go back to your document which you presented to cabinet, under "Strategic Goals" it says "Stakeholder Management and Issue Containment." It says, "We will seek controlled opportunities to frame the discussion and get government messages to the media." That's what your document says. See? Well, I want to tell you, Minister, you can forget about issue containment and you can forget about controlled opportunities to frame the discussion. You may not believe in the dignity of Ontarians with disabilities, and you may not believe in opportunity for Ontarians with disabilities, but we in this party do and there will be no such thing as issue containment.

Interjections.

The Speaker: The member take his seat. Minister of Education, come to order. Thank you very much. Leader of the official opposition.

Mr McGuinty: Ontarians with disabilities are looking for somebody in the inside of government who's going to champion their cause. Now it might be one thing if this document had been prepared by the cabinet or by the Harris inner sanctum and sent back to you, but for you to prepare this on behalf of Ontarians with disabilities and to introduce this into cabinet is nothing less than disgraceful. You have betrayed those people whose cause you're supposed to be championing. You should do the honest and honourable thing here and now: you should resign.

Hon Mrs Johns: It's hard to take criticism from the members opposite. As we all know, both of these governments were in power in the last 10 years and neither of them did one thing to help people with disabilities in this province.

As everyone knows, when the legislation is passed in the province of Ontario, it will be the first legislation all across Canada, and I think that's a milestone.

When we were campaigning-

Interjections.

The Speaker: The member take her seat. Member for Elgin-Middlesex-London, this is your last warning. Minister?

Hon Mrs Johns: In 1999, when we were all campaigning, the Liberals told the ODA committee that they could introduce legislation within the first three years of the mandate. We said that we'd be able to do it by November 2001. I don't want you to forget that we're moving ahead of you faster.

Let me also say that the NDP, who are sitting quietly here, even had a private member's bill with respect to this, and they did nothing with that bill.

The Speaker: The minister's time is up. Final supplementary.

Mr Ernie Parsons (Prince Edward-Hastings): My question is to the same minister. The number one priority for people with disabilities is opening doors, not parking spaces. It's the dignity of entering a public building by the front door. It's the dignity of having access to education. It's the dignity of employment.

Your government has a mantra about jobs, but thousands of citizens in Ontario cannot even get to a job interview. There is 85% unemployment among our deaf community because of your funding cuts to translators. A real Ontarians with Disabilities Act would open the door to employment for people with disabilities.

Your plan will raise yet another barrier for the disabled. Minister, you are a barrier to 1.5 million disabled people in this province. Will you do the right thing now and resign?

Hon Mrs Johns: We've introduced $800 million worth of new programs over the last five years to ensure that people with disabilities have more access, one of the best things that can happen for people with disabilities if they need supports, and we've doubled those supports in the province of Ontario.

We're going to move, and we're going to be fair and we're going to be reasonable, not only for people with disabilities but also for those who are in a position to accommodate people with disabilities. That's an important balance that we intend to meet. The action plan and the legislation will come together by the end of the session and by November 2001. That's the commitment we made and that's the commitment we're moving forward to make.

WASTE MANAGEMENT

Mr Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): My question is for the Minister of the Environment. Imagine our shock today when we find out that the very people who are supposed to vote on your so-called Adams mine proposal aren't being allowed to see the details of it.

Doesn't it bother you as Minister of the Environment that you've presided over such an absurd process, that the very city councillors who are supposed to vote on the Adams mine proposal aren't being shown the details of it? Doesn't it bother you that there's a gag order that stops them from talking publicly about the details of the deal?

Minister, if this is such a good deal-and your government says it is-why do you have to hide it in the backrooms? Why do you have to keep it secret from the public of Ontario? Will you tell us that?

Hon Dan Newman (Minister of the Environment): In fact, the contract that the leader of the third party is talking about is not a contract with the government of Ontario. So perhaps he may want to direct the question to the parties involved within that contract.

Mr Hampton: You're supposed to be the Minister of the Environment for Ontario. You're supposed to care about these issues. You're supposed to ensure before anything like this happens that it does meet the tests of public approval, that it does pass all the tests, that it isn't signed in a backroom somewhere.

Let me get to some other questions. Since your government approved this deal, we've shown you that there exist drilling reports from the 1980s that show how fractured and cracked that mine pit is. We've shown you that in the last three months alone there have been three earthquakes within 30 miles of the proposed dumpsite. We've shown you that the company you're going to deal with, WMI from the United States, has been fined over $50 million in the United States for environmental and other infractions. Doesn't any of that bother you?

Hon Mr Newman: I say to the leader of the third party that he knows that a full environmental assessment did take place with respect to this Adams mine landfill site. I want to assure him and all members in the House today that this government takes its responsibility with respect to the environment very seriously. We want to see the environment preserved and protected.

This project has undergone extensive and thorough technical analysis. There was the full environmental assessment that took place under the Environmental Assessment Act. There were hearings under the Environmental Assessment Board that lasted for six months, and the board actually attached 26 conditions to that plan. The certificate of approval that was issued carried with it 66 conditions. There were the eight independent peer reviews done on this project.

We have done our part with the environmental assessment process, and it is ensuring that the environment is protected in our province.

Mr Hampton: This minister wants to put on a good show. Why don't you admit that before you put together this so-called environmental assessment, you gutted the Environmental Assessment Act, and you gutted the Environmental Assessment Act so that you could approve this project quick and dirty? There was no assessment. There was a 15-day period-a 15-day period to consider a project that could have implications 100 years down the road. That is how inadequate, that is how ridiculous your process has been.

Now, as the evidence mounts, as you have to keep the deal secret, when you find out that you've had earthquakes in the area, when you find out that the pit itself is cracked and fissured and leaks, all you can say is, "Well, we approved it."

I want to ask you one more question that should give you pause for thought. Your partner in this deal is WMI. At one of their trial hearings in the United States, the trial judge, reflecting on their bad environmental record, said this: "Better that you do a deal with the devil than do a deal with this company." Does that bother you, Minister, or do you think that's OK, too?

Hon Mr Newman: I'm pleased that the leader of the third party has raised the issue of the Environmental Assessment Act. I want to note what the two opposition parties have said. The Liberals, in their red book, outlined that changes needed to be made to the Environmental Assessment Act.

But more specifically, I'm going to talk about the NDP stance and the position that I hope they still hold today. Former environment minister Ruth Grier stood in her place and outlined changes that the NDP knew had to be made. I want to quote her from April 15, 1992, in Hansard, when she said, "First, we want to provide clearer direction to proponents and the public." She went on to say, "Second, we want the government to review individual EA documents in one third of the time it takes today." She goes on: "Third, the ministry will be working with the Environmental Assessment Board to reduce the average length of hearings and use negotiation to reduce the need for hearings."

The NDP called for changes to the Environmental Assessment Act. The Liberals called for changes to the Environmental Assessment Act. We're the ones that actually made those changes.

WALKERTON TRAGEDY

Mr Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): Again to the same minister. Yes, different governments have called for changes in process in terms of environmental assessment. You're the first government to gut the process.

The question I want to ask you now is on behalf of some people in Walkerton. With much fanfare, you're going to be mailing out your $200 cheque scheme. The people in Walkerton want to know this: how is it that a year ago when they needed money to fix up their water system, your government's response was, "Sorry, no money"? After the Walkerton disaster, after six people died and 2,000 people became ill, you still haven't found the money and organizational skill to fix the water, but when it comes to financing your $200 cheque scheme, there's no problem at all. Can you answer that question for the people in Walkerton? Can you answer it today?

Hon Dan Newman (Minister of the Environment): I wish the leader of the third party would be a little more specific in his questions. He raises these allegations here. But I want to tell you what we've done with respect to assisting the people of Walkerton to ensure that they do have a clean, safe supply of drinking water.

We've replaced 4.6 kilometres of water mains in Walkerton. The pipe replacement is complete and we're continuing work on the service connections within Walkerton. We've issued orders to stop using well 5 and ordered a hydrogeological study in the areas surrounding the other wells. There's an interim filtration system that will be in place by October 30. Each and every house and business within Walkerton is being sampled as part of our confirmation program to ensure the efficacy of the house-to-house decontamination, to ensure that has taken place.

We've continued to supply an alternate supply of water to local long-term-care facilities, to the hospital, to the jail, with water that's being trucked daily from Hanover.

Mr Hampton: Let me add what the minister forgot to give in his response. The people of Walkerton did request money from your government to fix up their water system, and your government said there was no money. Six months ago people died in Walkerton and you still haven't been able to provide them with safe, clean drinking water. Six months ago you announced your $200 cheque scheme, and there's no problem: you can find the money to finance that like nothing.

Three days ago, four days ago we had a chance to put forward a Safe Drinking Water Act for this province to really take the first steps to do something. What does this minister say? "Oh," he says, "it's merely red tape." Minister, explain to the people of Walkerton: you couldn't find the money to help them with their water system in the first place. You haven't been able to clean up their water since then. When someone brings forward a Safe Drinking Water Act, you dismiss it as red tape. How is it, Minister, that you can so easily find the money to finance your $200 cheque scheme?

Hon Mr Newman: Speaker, I'll refer the question to the Attorney General.

Hon Jim Flaherty (Attorney General, minister responsible for native affairs): Unlike the leader of the third party, I have listened to the people of Walkerton, including last night when I was at the public meeting in the town of Walkerton. I can tell you, listening to the mayor, the deputy mayor, the clean water people, the people from the Ministry for the Environment, the medical officer of health and the people of Walkerton last night, that they're very encouraged by the progress that has been made. As the deputy mayor said last night, "There's light at the end of the tunnel and the tunnel is getting shorter."

They're looking forward to the establishment of the filtration plant. Tremendous progress has been made in a very difficult area. They're encouraged by their dealings and negotiations with the Ministry of Tourism, with my colleague Mr Palladini, the Minister of Economic Development, and are looking forward to a new day in Walkerton.

AIR AMBULANCE SERVICE

Mrs Lyn McLeod (Thunder Bay-Atikokan): My question is for the Minister of Northern Development. Yesterday we asked you some very straightforward questions. We asked why your government is privatizing the air ambulance service. We asked what guarantees you could provide so that the standards of care for the ambulance service would not be sacrificed as for-profit companies cut costs by cutting salaries. We asked why your government would risk losing highly trained paramedics who are providing a vitally needed service.

You had no answers yesterday, but today we understand you are saying: "Well, no final decisions have been made." Minister, if no decisions have been made, why have the province's flight paramedics been told they have to make a choice? They have to agree to work for a new private company or they have to offer their resignation to the government. Why were they told they had to make that choice by September 27?

Darren Tyler, one of those paramedics, is in the gallery today and he wants an answer. Minister, why are you privatizing the air ambulance service?

Hon Tim Hudak (Minister of Northern Development and Mines): I'm pleased to respond, as I did yesterday, to the questions from the member across the floor. The government of Ontario and the Ministry of Health maintain authority and management of the air ambulance system. We're committed to maintaining the highest quality standards for ambulance and emergency ambulance air services across the province. That's under the Ambulance Act. No changes whatsoever have been made to dilute those standards. We are committed to the highest possible standards.

In fact, with respect to air ambulances, we are adding another plane in the air ambulance services to expand the quality of care and the quantity of care in the province of Ontario.

That's a totally different commitment from the members opposite. The fact of the matter is, part of it is already delivered by the private sector. If their view is to take all the ambulances back from the private sector, to pull it all back into the government of Ontario, if that's what they want to do, let's hear them; let them stand up and say what they would do.

Mrs McLeod: Indeed, on your Ministry of Health's own Web site they boast about the unique program which is a successful marriage of private and public sectors, which is why we wonder why, on September 20, air ambulance paramedics were told by your Ministry of Health that they had to make a choice: either work for a new company or resign. They were given exactly five working days to make that choice. Today we have learned that every one of our critical-care paramedics has chosen to resign. We are losing 100% of our most highly trained paramedics, and your government is going to spend $1.6 million to say goodbye to them. It makes no sense at all.

But more than that, Minister, these paramedics believe that your decision to take these final steps to privatize the air ambulance system is simply wrong. They are concerned that a new employer will jeopardize the standards of care by hiring people with less training at lower wages.

Minister, you are supposed to be the voice for northern Ontario. This is not just an issue for northern Ontario, but I can tell you it's a particularly crucial matter of life and death for northerners. What will you do to stop your government from taking risks with the lives of people living in our communities?

Hon Mr Hudak: I think what the member opposite knows full well but doesn't say in her questions or in her statements is that the service currently is contracted out to the private sector; 70% of those operating are on contract. The current contract expires in September 2001. The Ministry of Health is simply going through due diligence to let employees know that the contract is expiring in September 2001, giving them notice that an RFP will take place to see who should deliver the service in the future.

I'll tell you this in terms of delivering high-quality air ambulance service in this province: this province stands second to none. We're committed to high-quality standards across northern Ontario. In fact, we're increasing the level of service in air ambulances.

Interjections.

Hon Mr Hudak: They avoid my question. The Liberals' line is to add to the size of the public service, to take those who are currently contracted out, whether it's air ambulance or private sector health care, hospitals delivering the service-are they going to take all that back to the public sector? Where does the Liberal Party stand on-

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): The minister's time is up.

SERVICES FOR THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

Mr Garfield Dunlop (Simcoe North): My question is for the Minister of Community and Social Services. Let me begin by thanking you for your recent letters to the editors in Simcoe county newspapers, in which you congratulate the Simcoe county social services department on their success with the Ontario Works program. We've dropped caseloads from 11,500 to 3,800 since 1995, and I really appreciate the fact that you've acknowledged these employees.

I have another problem in my riding that I am concerned about. Many of my constituents have been extremely concerned about news that your ministry has plans to change how services are provided for people with developmental disabilities. Of particular interest is the suggestion in the media that you may be closing the Huronia Regional Centre, an employer of over 700 people in my riding. The regional centre is very important not only to the economy of Orillia and to the employees of HRC but also to the people who live there. Some have been at Huronia for all of their lives. Simply put, a lot of people's lives would be impacted if your ministry decided to close this facility.

Minister, can you say today whether you plan to close this institution?

Hon John R. Baird (Minister of Community and Social Services, minister responsible for francophone affairs): On behalf of the government, there's a real responsibility that we acknowledge that we have to provide supports to people with developmental disabilities in our communities. It's particularly important to help those vulnerable residents in the member's constituency at Huronia. I have had the pleasure and the opportunity to visit Huronia twice, once with him to meet some of the staff and to talk to some of the residents.

Over the last four governments we've all supported community living, providing more supports for people in their community, and I think that says a lot about the wise nature of that policy.

We have committed that before we make any decisions, we will take the time to talk to residents and to their families, to talk to the committed staff at Huronia and to the community. But our bottom line is simple: we want to work to ensure that every resident at Huronia continues to get good support.

Mr Dunlop: Thank you very much, Minister. I appreciate your answer, and I also understand that this facility has been downsized over the last 20 years. But I'm sure that you can also appreciate that this is a very important issue and that it is imperative that we have as much information as possible before a decision is finally made.

Most people who work with people with developmental disabilities acknowledge that there are numerous challenges facing these people. For some, even simple daily tasks like washing or going to bed require guidance of a professional, like the employees we have at HRC. Individuals with developmental disabilities are some of the most vulnerable in our society.

Minister, can you please tell me what your ministry has in place to improve services for people with developmental disabilities?

Hon Mr Baird: We recognize that governments can do more. That's why earlier this year we announced a $50-million increase in help for those people with developmental disabilities in our province. That was a big step forward. It was the biggest increase in the budget in more than a decade and it demonstrated our commitment to do more.

I talked to a mother in Burlington, 72 years old, who had taken care of her adult daughter with a developmental disability her entire life. At this time in her life she needs more support. We're creating more than 300 new group home beds, which is a good step forward.

I talked to some parents in Ottawa who are worried about the future of their daughter, who turned 21 this year. Will there be a place for her when she leaves our school system? We're setting up a new program to provide more day programming and supports for young people with developmental disabilities.

I've also talked to a lot of staff-hard-working, committed staff, for whom this is a vocation, not a job, about the high levels of staff turnover and the need to do more. Over the two years we're putting in an additional $21 million to help begin to address that need. Again, it's not the full answer but it's the most significant increase in almost a decade.

ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION

Mr David Ramsay (Timiskaming-Cochrane): I have a question for the Deputy Premier. As you know, 60 protestors have blocked the ONR tracks crossing the Adams mine road for about the last 48 hours now. I'm sure the Solicitor General has briefed you and the Premier on OPP surveillance reports that state that Mohawk warriors have been seen in that area. I know that the Solicitor General is concerned about this situation. The Adams mine issue is about to blow up in the face of your government and I'm afraid that people are about to get hurt.

Ipperwash showed you preferred the tough approach to this type of situation. But here you have an opportunity to prevent disaster. Every day more and more experts are coming forward to say that the environmental assessment process was incomplete and flawed. The mistake that you made was not to allow all aspects of this project to be considered at the hearing stage. A full hearing will stand this situation down. Will you do that?

Hon Chris Hodgson (Chair of the Management Board of Cabinet): I know the Minister of the Environment wants to comment on the environmental assessment.

Hon Dan Newman (Minister of the Environment): Indeed, this issue, as all waste issues are, is very emotional. I want to again assure all members in the House that we take the protection of the environment very seriously. I remind the member opposite that the project has undergone extensive and thorough technical analysis to ensure that the environment has been protected over the long run.

As part of our commitment to ensuring that the environment was and is protected, there was a full environmental assessment that took place in accordance with the Environmental Assessment Act. The Minister of the Environment requested that the Environmental Assessment Board review the hydraulic leachate collection and containment systems to ensure that groundwater contamination would be prevented. The hearings lasted six months. The board actually attached 26 conditions to that plan.

Mr Ramsay: Minister, I'm pleading with you to find a way to defuse this situation. Your government had a choice. You decided to scope the hearings. You were the ones who decided to cut off the debate at the hearing stage to all aspects of this project save one. I think the conclusion of Don Smith, a member of the EA panel hearing the Adams mine EA, in his dissenting report, sums it up best, "When I weigh the totality of the evidence presented on all the above concerns I come to the conclusion that enough concerns have been raised that a proper exercise of the precautionary principle would lead us to say no to this project."

You are about to make the biggest mistake of your government. Opposition will continue to grow and will lead to a massive confrontation involving local residents and the First Nations of Ontario and Quebec. You have the power to prevent this. People are willing to die to stop this project. I'm pleading with you. Will you intervene and stop this crisis?

Hon Mr Newman: There has been a full environmental assessment done on this project. There were Environmental Assessment Board hearings. There was a judicial review. There was an appeal of that judicial review.

I want to quote the member opposite from March 25, 1994, when he sent out a press release that said, "It would be a shame to see jobs created by waste management go to the United States." He goes on to state, "Government should allow Metro Toronto to proceed with an environmental assessment of the Adams mine proposal."

That's what that member said in 1994. We had a full environmental assessment. We had the Environment Assessment Board hearings and there was a judicial review as well.

SYL APPS AWARDS

Mr Brian Coburn (Ottawa-Orléans): My question is for the Minister of Culture and Recreation. I am extremely pleased today that one of my constituents and friends, Mykal Johncox of Orléans, will be the recipient of the new provincial Syl Apps Award for Excellence in the junior male category. This will be awarded tonight at 6:30 pm in room 228.

As well, he will be joined by Sandra DiPasquale of Amherstburg, who was chosen in the junior female category.

This is a fabulous program, recognizing significant long-lasting contributions of young people to their community. Minister, can you share with the members of this House the background and purpose of these awards?

Hon Helen Johns (Minister of Citizenship, Culture and Recreation, minister responsible for seniors and women): I would like to thank the member from Carleton-Gloucester for his question. Let me say that this is the inaugural year of the Syl Apps Awards. These are awards of excellence that go to young people who show a unique combination of attributes. If any of us can remember back to the days of Syl Apps, you'll know what those are: a strong and active participation in sports, a history of volunteer service and demonstrated community leadership.

Let me tell you, colleagues, that Mykal earned his black belt in karate at the age of 10. He is a golf enthusiast, a young lobbyist-I'm not sure for whom-a dedicated volunteer with many organizations, including the Children's Hospital of Eastern Ontario.

Sandra has participated in numerous sports, volunteered at international gymnastic meets, assisted Youth Service Canada and is a youth dance volunteer for the Optimist Club.

These are really impressive young people.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Supplementary.

Mr Marcel Beaubien (Lambton-Kent-Middlesex): I'd like to acknowledge and thank my colleague for sharing his question with me, because I too have a young person who I would like to introduce from the township of Brooke, near Alvinston, in the Lambton part of the riding. His name is Andy Triest. I'm sure his parents and all of the community are very proud of this young man.

Also, I have the distinct pleasure of introducing Christy Marlow of Smooth Rock Falls, who will be the senior recipient tonight.

Minister, as you are aware, this is a new award. It's very important to have the young people in our communities involved, not only in the political system and in the volunteer system, but active and moving to care and participate in the events that go on in their community. My question is-

Interjections.

Mr Beaubien: -if you give me a minute over there on the other side of the House-it is an important issue, so give me a chance to ask my question.

Although I am aware of the criteria, I would like to know, so we can inform the young people of the province of Ontario so that they can continue to apply for these awards, what are the criteria and how-

The Speaker: Minister.

Hon Mrs Johns: I would like to thank my colleague the member for Lambton-Kent-Middlesex. As many of you know, he's my neighbour in politics.

I would like to say that these young people were chosen from 16 regional finalists and they were part of 130 nominations that came in from local municipalities and councils all across the province of Ontario. We know that as this award gets better known, we'll have more and more people applying for it, but let me say that we have some excellent candidates in the 16 I have met.

Let me say that Andy, who you were talking about, has participated in sports as a player, a coach, an umpire and volunteer, was a cultural exchange student to France, a school tutor and a mentor and a church volunteer.

Christy is an enthusiastic athlete and a community volunteer and takes an active role in her school and her community. She is a coach and she is a student trustee.

We have some impressive people in the gallery today. Let's give them a big round of applause.

FOREST MANAGEMENT

Mr Gilles Bisson (Timmins-James Bay): Prior to my question, on behalf of the NDP caucus I would like to congratulate the work done by those individuals in our communities.

I have a question to the Minister of Natural Resources. Minister, you will know that your ministry is currently developing forest management guidelines which will allow forest companies to clear up to 10,000 hectares of forest if these policies are put in place. That's equivalent to an entire township being clear-cut, a six-by-six mile square across northern Ontario that your ministry will allow to be cut if this policy goes forward. What's worse, you're going to allow this under the guise that this is good environmental policy as it will emulate natural occurrences of a forest fire.

This massive clear-cut policy of yours will be, to say the least, a highly intrusive and destructive policy for our forest. Will you, as the steward of our forest, say no to this bad policy?

Hon John Snobelen (Minister of Natural Resources): I thank the member opposite for the question. It's an important question. Forestry is an important industry, an important activity in Ontario and one that we obviously spend a considerable amount of time on. For clarity, let me point out that in the area he's discussing, the area of the undertaking where forestry takes place in Ontario, we announced last year the Ontario Living Legacy, the largest single parks announcement in the history of the province, which protects 12% of that land from forestry of any kind, the most in any province in the country. We're very proud of that.

The cuts in the area that is allowed to be forested are done by scientific standards-the member points to some of those-that are done by regulations. Those are some of the most stringent and best-informed in the world, and they will continue to be.

Mr Bisson: You've gone out and saved a few trees, but you're going to lose the entire forest by way of this policy. It's quite simple. What you're trying to do here is give a gift to forest companies for having signed on to your Living Legacy policy. That's what this is all about. We're moving from the ability right now of forestry companies to clear-cut from 260 hectares of trees up to 10,000 hectares. Minister, how can you allow that?

You know as well as I do, you know as well as everybody else, that this policy in the end is going to be bad environmental policy and it will also be bad economic policy vis-à-vis what happens with the Europeans and the environmental movement. Do the right thing. Stop this thing cold in its tracks, and stop it while you have a chance.

Hon Mr Snobelen: First and foremost, I might inform the member opposite that, along with the announcement of the Ontario Living Legacy, the 6.2 million acres that the member says is a small amount of the forest in the province-I think that's a substantial amount, one we're very proud of. Along with that announcement, we made the announcement of an accord, a very unusual accord where the government, the environmentalist movement in Ontario and the foresters sit together and work together on the appropriate kind of forestry. We think that's a co-operative.

The member asked about the genesis of this. Let me remind him that the genesis of this is the original direction to emulate the natural disturbance and landscape patterns. That language comes from the Crown Forest Sustainability Act as introduced by Minister Howard Hampton back in 1994. That is the genesis of our cutting.

Mr Bisson: On a point of order, Mr Speaker: The minister across the way knows full well that we limited clear-cuts to 200-

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): That's not a point of order. New question.

WASTE MANAGEMENT

Mr Ernie Parsons (Prince Edward-Hastings): My question is to the Minister of the Environment. It is hard to believe in the 21st century that anyone in Ontario should be afraid to drink the water. Unfortunately, the events in the spring have proven that for many they should be.

An American garbage company has asked your permission to dump 18 million tonnes of garbage on fractured limestone in the former Richmond township. This is a company which the local newspaper, the Belleville Intelligencer, reported has an atrocious record of environmental law infractions. Last Friday, hundreds of people from the township of Tyendinaga, the town of Deseronto and the Tyendinaga Mohawk territory rallied together to show their concern in a united voice against this proposal.

These people are afraid their water will turn to poison for generations to come. They're frightened that you won't protect the water. They're afraid you're just not up to the job. Minister, prove you are. Require a vote on this issue in all affected communities. Let the people have a voice. Show leadership and say, "I want to hear from you." Can you do this, Minister? Will you work with the Minister of Municipal Affairs to have a referendum by all of the affected communities regarding this dump, and will you accept the people's decision?

Hon Dan Newman (Minister of the Environment): I want to say to the member that protecting the environment is our first priority in the Ministry of the Environment, and waste management is indeed a growing global problem.

We've given municipalities the power to determine their long-term waste-management strategies, and with respect to the facility the member opposite refers to, I understand that Canadian Waste Services is looking for approvals for the expansion of their Richmond landfill under the Environmental Assessment Act, as well as the Environmental Protection Act. Our government approved the Canadian Waste Services proposed terms of reference, and Canadian Waste Services is now proceeding to prepare with an environmental assessment in accordance with the approved terms of reference.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Supplementary. The member for Sarnia-Lambton.

Ms Caroline Di Cocco (Sarnia-Lambton): Minister, you created the largest toxic waste dump in 1997, and by the way, you cut a lot of red tape and you fast-tracked the expansion. It's an American company, 70% of that hazardous waste comes from outside the province and it's going bankrupt. It has applied for bankruptcy protection.

For over a year Dalton McGuinty and this caucus have been asking you to address some serious problems, problems such as the integrity of the site. There's no full-time inspector there, where there are others across the province. Financial security provided by Safety-Kleen is grossly inadequate, and hazardous waste is still not treated, it's just dumped there.

There have been fires on that site, and your ministry doesn't even have people to respond after hours. You've received numerous letters on this.

Dalton McGuinty and this caucus want to know exactly what checks and balances you have put on this site since it was addressed to you last year with regard to these specific issues.

Hon Mr Newman: I take it the member opposite is talking about the Safety-Kleen site in Moore township. I don't think she addressed that in her question, but I believe that's the facility she's talking about.

I want to assure the people who live near that landfill site that we'll take necessary action to handle the situation and to safeguard the health and the environment of the people in that area. That's why the ministry works with Safety-Kleen on an ongoing basis to ensure that the highest environmental standards and protection are continuously maintained.

I want to indicate that the company has met the time frame specified in the orders that have been brought forward by the Ministry of the Environment, including the submission of a remediation plan for that portion of the landfill.

I say to the member opposite, to even suggest that the Ministry of the Environment doesn't have staff to do that is simply wrong. We have a staff of people throughout the province who are there to respond, and we are there to protect the environment.

HYDRO RATES

Mr Doug Galt (Northumberland): My question is to the Minister of Energy, Science and Technology. Minister, electric utilities continue to be concerned with the expanding strength of Hydro One. They express the feeling that we're moving from having one mega-monopoly that's out of control to just having another mega-monopoly.

Hydro One was incorporated prior to June 1, 2000, and the rate of return has been established at over 9%. Municipal electric utilities were supposed to move to a similar regime. At the recent Ontario Energy Board hearings, a number of utilities pointed out discrepancies between Hydro One and the municipal electric utilities with respect to rates of return and costs of power.

Minister, could you verify these facts and please describe how these discrepancies constitute a level playing field.

Hon Jim Wilson (Minister of Energy, Science and Technology): I'd like to thank my colleague for the question. Certainly Hydro One was established as one of the successor companies to the former Ontario Hydro. It was necessary to break up that old monopoly, which embedded the wires business, the generation business and some other businesses all together in one big mess that created about a $38-billion debt for this province.

So the establishment of Hydro One, the commercialization of that company, is part of our plan, and we're the first government in recent history in this province to have a plan to pay down that old debt, to move these electricity companies into the public marketplace and to ensure that the customers in this province receive the lowest possible prices. That will come about when we finally open the market and introduce competition.

Hydro One really is a big "mun-y" in that it owns the monopoly wires business, and it has the same rules as all other municipal utilities out there today.

Mr Galt: Last Friday the Ontario Energy Board announced that any increased rates for electricity would be phased in. This decision in itself limits the ability of any utility to make significant rate increases. Bill 100 was designed to prevent municipalities from obtaining obscene windfall profits from their utility and then charging excessive electricity rates. Since the Ontario Energy Board announcement is essentially that, is it necessary to continue with Bill 100?

Hon Mr Wilson: It's a question we're getting from many of our municipal colleagues, the mayors and councils. I tell the honourable member that we're reviewing the OEB's decision of last Friday, which was designed to protect customers, and we're also going to look at the rate applications that municipalities submit to the Ontario Energy Board over the next few weeks, as they're required to do as a result of that ruling on Friday.

They have to resubmit, and from the talk I hear from the mayors and councillors around the province I've been chatting with over the weekend and yesterday and this morning, I think municipalities are going to take a more reasonable approach. Yes, they will eventually be able to earn a commercial rate of return for their new electricity companies, but they can't do that at the expense of prices or on the backs of customers. The Ontario Energy Board is there to protect customers. I trust they will do their job, and Bill 100 will help them do their job if we find it necessary to proceed with-

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): The minister's time is up.

HAMILTON-WENTWORTH DETENTION CENTRE

Mr Dominic Agostino (Hamilton East): My question is to the Minister of Correctional Services. After numerous complaints on Friday afternoon, I paid a visit to the Hamilton-Wentworth Detention Centre. Let me tell you, there's a powder keg ready to explode inside this facility. This facility was built for 232 inmates. As of Friday night, there were 417 inmates inside this facility. The cells were shared by three prisoners: two bunks and one mattress on the floor.

Minister, under your funding, in the general prison population area there are only two guards to watch over 72 inmates. That is dangerous; that is unsatisfactory. The guards are doing a very good job under some very difficult circumstances. They're putting their lives at risk every day. Let me suggest to you that these working conditions are increasing their risk and putting their lives in jeopardy as a result of the moves you have made not to increase the funding and not to increase the staffing at the detention centre.

Recently, there have been two deaths and a number of suspected drug overdoses as well in the facility. We have some very serious problems. Minister, will you commit today to undertake a full review of the conditions at the Hamilton-Wentworth Detention Centres, including staffing levels, and make the necessary changes to make it safe for the inmates and particularly for the guards, who risk their lives looking after those inmates?

Hon Rob Sampson (Minister of Correctional Services): I will say to the honourable member across the floor that we have been reviewing the situation of the correctional facilities across this province for some time. In fact, we stopped reviewing those situations a number of months ago and made some decisions. Those decisions were to build brand new institutions and rebuild existing institutions to add to the security levels, to make sure that the previous government's lack of attention to corrections and building appropriate space was addressed by this government and addressed in a serious way.

We're building new facilities in this province, investing just under $500 million in new money into the system, so that we will have the capacity to deal with the cell demands that the justice system places upon us.

Mr Agostino: Minister, the reality is that as the population growth has occurred in the jails, you have not brought in the staffing and the help necessary for the guards today-not two or three years from now, but today-to safely do their jobs and not put their lives at risk any more than they have to.

Here are some of the other conditions: Two of the cells that I visited or I saw were posted with suicide watches. These are individuals who belong in a psychiatric institution, which you have gone ahead and shut down, not in a jail.

The guards were dispensing medication. You have cut the nursing staff in the jails, so you have jail guards now who are also dispensing medication to the inmates-again, not something that should be occurring in our facilities today in Ontario.

While I was there I saw a jail guard pick up a wooden weapon that had been left in a hallway. These are real conditions that those guards are facing every single day. Those men and women are risking their lives.

Let me suggest to you that your irresponsible decisions not to increase the funding and the staffing at those jails are responsible for the conditions that are there today. You are putting their lives in jeopardy by not giving them the right funding and the conditions to work in.

Again, Minister, I ask you, before we have an explosion in that jail, before we have a tragic event occurring in that jail, before we have out-of-control riots in that jail, will you commit today to review the Hamilton-Wentworth Detention Centre staffing levels and give them the funding they need to make sure the safety of the inmates is-

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): The member's time is up.

Hon Mr Sampson: I thank the honourable member for the question, and I say we've already done that. If you take a look at the record-

Mr Agostino: You've done nothing.

Hon Mr Sampson: Do you want to hear the answer? If you take a look at the record, in 1989 the budget of that facility was $17.5 million; now it's $21.3 million. In 1989 the staffing level there was 252 full-time employees; it's now 270.

I know the Liberals have trouble with numbers, but the challenge here is, you've asked us to review the-

Mr Agostino: How many inmates did you have there?

The Speaker: Order. Member for Hamilton East, come to order, please. He has asked his question. Minister of Correctional Services.

Hon Mr Sampson: The member wants an answer and I'm trying to give him the answer. If he would sit and listen, I'm sure he would understand what I'm trying to say.

We're trying to deal with the inmate count across the province. I understand that. That's why we're investing half a billion dollars to build new cells. You wouldn't do that when you were in government. You paid no attention to corrections when you were in government. We think public safety involves investment in corrections, not only for those outside the jails but for those who work and live inside them.

INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY

Mrs Brenda Elliott (Guelph-Wellington): My question today is to the Attorney General. Improving customer service for the people of Ontario has been a goal of our government since 1995. The world is clearly a more technologically driven place, and I would like to ask the minister what his ministry in particular is doing to use technology to improve the level of service for the people of Ontario.

Hon Jim Flaherty (Attorney General, minister responsible for native affairs): I thank the member for Guelph-Wellington for the question. The e-world is of vital importance to the people of Ontario, to the future of Ontario, to business in Ontario. We've improved the level of service we provide to Ontarians.

Bill 88, the Electronic Commerce Act, passed clause-by-clause second reading this week. That is enabling legislation to provide new tools to businesses that will make it easier, safer and more efficient. It will help businesses to become more competitive and more efficient. It will create new jobs.

The Ontario Evidence Act will be amended to permit electronic evidence to be used in Ontario courts, to set out rules for authentication and for satisfying the best-evidence rule for electronic records.

We also have the integrated justice project, which is bringing the three ministries responsible for justice issues in Ontario together. It will provide an integrated network between the police, through the court system, which means greater safety for the people of Ontario.

We're also bringing together an electronic form of the Revised Statutes of Ontario, which will provide easy access to the laws of Ontario for the people of Ontario.

Mrs Elliott: In particular, I was curious about what you're planning to do to create a Web site that will allow citizens up-to-date information on statutes; not only up to date but also easily accessible from across the province.

Hon Mr Flaherty: As members will know, over the years we've had these many volumes of Revised Statutes of Ontario. They were almost always becoming out of date. They could not keep up accurately with legislative amendments and other legislative activities. Now, 24 hours a day, when the Web site is there, anyone can access the statutes they need.

PETITIONS

NORTHERN HEALTH TRAVEL GRANT

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): It is time for petitions, and today I will recognize first the member for Sudbury. The reason I want to do this is that today is his mother's 83rd birthday. So for Mrs Bartolucci, her son will start off petitions.

Mr Rick Bartolucci (Sudbury): Thank you. Happy birthday, Mom. Actually, this petition was collected by my mother and she did that at her local church, Our Lady of Perpetual Help parish. It says:

"Whereas the northern health travel grant offers a reimbursement of partial travel costs at a rate of 30.4 cents per kilometre one way for northerners forced to travel for cancer care while travel policy for southerners who travel for cancer care features full reimbursement costs for travel, meals and accommodation;

"Whereas a cancer tumour knows no health travel policy or geographic location;

"Whereas a recently released Oracle research poll confirms that 92% of Ontarians support equal health travel funding;

"Whereas northern Ontario residents pay the same amount of taxes and are entitled to the same access to health care and all government services and inherent civil rights as residents living elsewhere in the province;

"Whereas we support the efforts of the newly formed OSECC (Ontarians Seeking Equal Cancer Care), founded by Gerry Lougheed Jr, former chair of Cancer Care Ontario, Northeast Region, to correct this injustice against northerners travelling for cancer treatment;

"Therefore,

be it resolved that we, the undersigned, petition the Ontario Legislature to demand the Mike Harris government move immediately to fund full travel expenses for northern Ontario cancer patients and eliminate the health care apartheid which exists presently in the province of Ontario."

I thank my mother for getting these petitions, wish her a happy birthday and proudly affix my signature.

CHILD POVERTY

Mr David Christopherson (Hamilton West): I have further petitions from the West Hamilton Interfaith Committee on Child Poverty that read as follows:

"Whereas the federal government signed the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child and passed a resolution to eradicate child poverty by the year 2000; and

"Whereas at the first ministers' meeting in June 1996 the Prime Minister and Premiers made tackling child poverty a collective priority; and

"Whereas Campaign 2000 records the province of Ontario as having the highest increase-116%-in child poverty since Canada's House of Commons vowed unanimously in November 1989 to eliminate child poverty;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, petition the Parliament of Ontario:

"To take immediate steps to eradicate the hunger of poor children by working vigorously with the federal government to reduce the poverty rate among Ontario's children; and

"To follow and implement the recommendations of the Early Years Study, commissioned by the Ontario government in the spring of 1998."

I add my name to these petitions.

MCMICHAEL CANADIAN ART COLLECTION

Mr Bob Wood (London West): I have a petition that I wish to present on behalf of the member for London North Centre. It is signed by 16 people and reads as follows:

"Whereas the government of Ontario has introduced Bill 112,

An Act to amend the McMichael Canadian Art Collection Act;

"Whereas the McMichael Canadian Art Collection has grown and evolved into one of Canada's best-loved and most important art gallery collections of Canadian art;

"Whereas the passage of Bill 112 would:

"constitute a breach of trust made with hundreds of other donors to the McMichael Canadian Art Collection;

"vest too much power in the hands of the founders, who have been more than compensated for their generosity;

"diminish the authority and responsibility of the board of trustees;

"limit the focus of the art collection and hamper the gallery's ability to raise private funds, thereby increasing its dependency on the taxpayers; and

"significantly reduce its capacity and strength as an educational resource;

"Therefore we, the undersigned citizens of Ontario, petition the Ontario Legislature to withdraw Bill 112."

WATER EXTRACTION

Mrs Leona Dombrowsky (Hastings-Frontenac-Lennox and Addington): My petition is to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas we strenuously object to permits to take water being issued by the Ministry of the Environment without adequate assessment of the consequences and without adequate consultation with the public and those people and groups who have expertise and interest;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"We request a moratorium on the issuing of permits to take water for non-farm, commercial and industrial use and the rescinding of all existing commercial water-taking permits that are for bulk or bottled water export, outside of Ontario, until a comprehensive evaluation of our water needs is completed. An independent non-partisan body should undertake this evaluation."

I very proudly affix my signature to this petition.

OCCUPATIONAL HEALTH AND SAFETY

Mr David Christopherson (Hamilton West): "To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the community of Sarnia is witnessing many women developing mesothelioma and asbestosis as a result of the asbestos brought home on their husbands' work clothing; and

"Whereas similar cases are occurring in other areas of the province;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, ask the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to amend the Workplace Safety and Insurance Act to allow compensation for family members who develop occupational illness as a result of workplace toxins inadvertently brought home."

I add my name to this petition as I continue to support their demands.

EDUCATION LEGISLATION

Mr Michael Gravelle (Thunder Bay-Superior North): Thousands of high school students in Thunder Bay in northwestern Ontario are devastated by the loss of extracurricular activities in their high schools and I've got all kinds of petitions I'd like to read.

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas Bill 74 unfairly increases the teachers' workload, giving teachers little time to prepare, therefore compromising the education of Ontario's students; and

"Whereas teachers must spend all their time preparing for class, leaving them with no time for extracurricular activities; and

"Whereas extracurricular activities such as sports, school dances, clubs and the arts, previously playing an important role in creating a positive high school experience, are no longer possible;

"Therefore we, the undersigned citizens of Ontario, petition the Legislative Assembly to request the Minister of Education to revoke Bill 74 and work towards creating and maintaining a positive learning environment for Ontario's high school students and teachers."

I've got all kinds of signatures here from all across my community and I hope the minister is listening. I'll sign my petition with pride.

FARMFARE PROGRAM

Mr David Christopherson (Hamilton West): I have a further petition forwarded to me by Stan Raper of the United Farm Workers. It reads as follows:

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the government of Ontario introduced farmfare on September 21, 1999, to supplement their workfare program, forcing social assistance recipients to work on farms for their benefits; and

"Whereas the Harris government of Ontario has not provided for any consultation or hearings regarding this initiative; and

"Whereas the Harris government has excluded agricultural workers from protections under the provincial labour code by passing Bill 7; and

"Whereas this exclusion is currently being appealed under the Canadian Charter of Rights for infringing on the right of association and equal benefit of law;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to retract the farmfare program until hearings have been held and to reinstate the right of agricultural workers to allow them basic human rights protection under the labour code of Ontario."

I affix my name to this petition also.

LIQUOR CONTROL BOARD OF ONTARIO

Mr James J. Bradley (St Catharines): I have a petition that reads as follows:

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the government of Ontario appears to be once again moving toward the privatization of retail liquor and spirits sales in the province; and

"Whereas the LCBO provides a safe, secure and controlled way of retailing alcoholic beverages; and

"Whereas the LCBO provides the best method of restricting the sale of liquor to minors in Ontario; and

"Whereas the LCBO has an excellent program of quality control of the products sold in its stores; and

"Whereas the LCBO provides a wide selection of product to its customers in modern, convenient stores; and

"Whereas the LCBO has moved forward with the times, sensitive to the needs of its customers and its clients; and

"Whereas the LCBO is an important instrument for the promotion and sale of Ontario wine and thereby contributes immensely to the grape-growing and wine-producing industry;

"Therefore

be it resolved that the government of Ontario abandon any plans to turn over the sale of liquor and spirits to private liquor stores and retain the LCBO for this purpose instead."

I affix my signature as I'm in complete agreement.

OCCUPATIONAL HEALTH AND SAFETY

Mr David Christopherson (Hamilton West): I continue to receive petitions from the CAW. This is from Local 199 in St Catharines.

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas this year 130,000 Canadians will contract cancer and there are at minimum 17 funerals every day for Canadian workers who died from cancer caused by workplace exposure to cancer-causing substances known as carcinogens; and

"Whereas the World Health Organization estimates that 80% of all cancers have environmental causes and the International Labour Organization estimates that one million workers globally have cancer because of exposure at work to carcinogens; and

"Whereas most cancers can be beaten if government had the political will to make industry replace toxic substances with non-toxic substances; and

"Whereas very few health organizations study the link between occupations and cancer, even though more study of this link is an important step to defeating this dreadful disease;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, petition the Legislative of Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That it become a legal requirement that occupational history be recorded on a standard form when a patient presents at a physician for diagnosis or treatment of cancer; and

"That the diagnosis and occupational history be forwarded to a central cancer registry for analysis as to the link between cancer and occupation."

Since I'm in support of this petition, I proudly add my name to theirs.

NORTHERN HEALTH TRAVEL GRANT

Mr Michael A. Brown (Algoma-Manitoulin): "To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the northern health travel grant was introduced in 1987 in recognition of the fact that northern Ontario residents are often forced to receive treatment outside their own communities because of the lack of available services; and

"Whereas the Ontario government acknowledges that the costs associated with that travel should not be fully borne by those residents and therefore that financial support should be provided by the Ontario government through the travel grant program; and

"Whereas travel, accommodation and other costs have escalated sharply since the program was first put in place, particularly in the area of air travel; and

"Whereas the Ontario government has provided funds so that southern Ontario patients needing care at the Northwestern Ontario Cancer Centre have all their expenses paid while receiving treatment in the north which creates a double standard for health care delivery in the province; and

"Whereas northern Ontario residents should not receive a different level of health care nor be discriminated against because of their geographical locations;

"Therefore we, the undersigned citizens of Ontario, petition the Legislature to acknowledge the unfairness and inadequacy of the northern health travel grant program and commit to a review of the program with a goal of providing 100% funding of the travel costs for residents needing care outside their communities until such time as that care is available in our communities."

This particular group of petitions is mostly from the fine communities of Elliot Lake and Blind River.

HIGHWAY SAFETY

Mr Michael Gravelle (Thunder Bay-Superior North): This is a very important petition, one we've been fighting for for some time:

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the volume of traffic is increasing on Highway 11/17 between Thunder Bay and Nipigon;

"Whereas this increasing traffic has led to more serious accidents and more frequent road closures along this stretch of the TransCanada Highway;

"Whereas many area children are met by their school bus along this highway;

"Whereas parents, school board officials and municipal leaders have urged MTO to develop and implement safety measures to ensure the safe passage of school children along this corridor;

"Therefore we, the undersigned citizens of Ontario, petition the Ontario Legislature to:

"move forward in the four-laning of Highway 11/17 between Thunder Bay and Nipigon;

"install school bus loading signs along populated stretches of the highway; and

"consider the development of pull-off laneways that allow for the safe school bus pickup and delivery of area children."

An important petition, signed by many people from my constituency; I'm proud to sign it.

NORTHERN HEALTH TRAVEL GRANT

Mr David Christopherson (Hamilton West): We continue to have petitions regarding the denial of equal rights for cancer patients in the north. The petition reads as follows:

"Whereas the northern health travel grant offers a reimbursement of partial travel costs at a rate of 30.4 cents per kilometre one way for northerners forced to travel for cancer care while travel policy for southerners who travel for cancer care features full reimbursement costs for travel, meals and accommodation;

"Whereas a cancer tumour knows no health travel policy or geographic location;

"Whereas a recently released Oracle research poll confirms that 92% of Ontarians support equal health travel funding;

"Whereas northern Ontario residents pay the same amount of taxes and are entitled to the same access to health care and all government services"-

Interjection.

Mr Christopherson: Have you got a problem with this?

"Whereas northern Ontario residents pay the same amount of taxes and are entitled to the same access to health care and all government services and inherent civil rights as residents living elsewhere in the province;

"Whereas we support the efforts of the newly formed OSECC (Ontarians Seeking Equal Cancer Care), founded by Gerry Lougheed Jr, former chair of Cancer Care Ontario, Northeast Region, to correct this injustice against northerners travelling for cancer treatment;

"Therefore

be it resolved that we, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to demand the Mike Harris government move immediately to fund full travel expenses for northern Ontario cancer patients and eliminate the health care apartheid which exists presently in the province of Ontario."

On behalf of all my southern constituents and my caucus colleagues, I proudly add my name to this petition.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

DOMESTIC VIOLENCE PROTECTION ACT, 2000 / LOI DE 2000 SUR LA PROTECTION CONTRE LA VIOLENCE FAMILIALE

Resuming the debate adjourned on October 3, 2000, on the motion for second reading of Bill 117,

An Act to better protect victims of domestic violence / Projet de loi 117, Loi visant à mieux protéger les victimes de violence familiale.

Ms Frances Lankin (Beaches-East York): Yesterday, I read into the record the names and a bit about the lives and the deaths of approximately 44 women who have been killed by their intimate partners or ex-partners since the release of the jury recommendations of the May-Iles coroner's inquiry. Those recommendations were released in July 1998. The recitation of the women's names and the details of their lives and deaths for me is an attempt to break through what often in this place seems like the reference to this nameless, faceless group of abused women.

It was an attempt to underscore the unique and heinous nature of domestic assault and intimate femicide in response to a particular comment in the Legislature that domestic violence is not just about male violence against women and the response of some MPPs in support of that comment.

I wanted to underscore that while I'm sure all honourable MPPs would agree that eradication of violence in our society is a goal that we all share-it's an aim that is laudable and one that in a civil society we must continue to strive for-there is a particular issue with domestic assault and intimate femicide and there are particular roots in our society that give rise to these conditions, to these situations, to this violence, to this killing. There are things that we as legislators, and in particular the executive council, the cabinet of Ontario as the government of Ontario, can do that will make a real difference, that will in fact save women's lives.

At the end of what for me was a very emotional and painful reading of the names of those women, I asked us to consider the question, will the bill before us today do anything to save women's lives? Would it have saved even one of those women's lives? I have to say, regretfully, the answer is no.

Let me be clear. I indicated earlier that I don't object to the bill itself. I support the measures, however inadequate they are in light of the big picture we're dealing with.

I hope you'll excuse me; I'm suffering from the institutional cold that's going through the building, so it's hard to keep the voice going.

In fact, I want to say in particular to the staff of the Attorney General who worked on this that I think there was some fine work done on an issue of how to toughen up or make more accessible intervention orders or restraining orders. I think some of the things, like broadening the category of those people who can apply for restraining orders, including people in dating relationships dealing with stalking situations, are positive. I can say some positive things about the actual words that are on the paper, but I have to implore MPPs to look at the issue that we're trying to address and to understand how far short of the mark this initiative on the part of the government is.

Even this bill, if it is to be more than words on paper, requires initiatives on the part of the government to make it meaningful. Not coincidentally, some of those things-and I will highlight them-are in the nature of the demands that have been put forward by over 95 women's organizations that have now come together and agreed on the list of emergency measures to be implemented this fall.

I say again, and I know I'll continue to come back to this, I find it so hard to understand how the government cannot be moved by the incredible coalition of support that has come behind these demands: over 95 different and disparate women's organizations. What does it take to get you to listen? I don't want to, in your eyes, cheapen the debate by asking the question, but one has to wonder how you write off these voices so easily. One has to wonder why it's so easy for you to dismiss women's voices.

The legislation before us seeks to strengthen civil restraining orders, making them more accessible, broadening the conditions, criminalizing violation of the orders, broadening the category of people who can apply for the orders. None of that, in and of itself, is negative. You need to understand, however, that a civil restraining order, this new intervention order as it's being defined, is at the bottom of the list of the criminal justice system. It is less in its impact and import than bail condition orders or than peace bonds. It's sort of the lowest, most minor intervention.

Even if it's to work, I ask you to look out in the field and understand how the community will access and be able to take advantage of this initiative.

Firstly, women's organizations are saying very clearly that for women to know and understand their ability to get this restraining order, there have to be community supports out there that women can go to to get this information. They have to know about it. They have to be given advice on how to access it and counselling on whether it's the right option for them at this point in time. There have to be services available that are culturally and linguistically suitable for communities so that women can get this information.

At the very time when we're talking about this, you will know that I raised in the House my concern over the cancellation of grants from the Ontario Women's Directorate to four women's centres this year and at least three or four more in the last two years. The minister responded saying, "No, we're funding more women's centres than ever before." With respect, I have to disagree. I have to ask you to take a look at what has happened: the money that has been expanded in the department of Ontario Women's Directorate has been reallocated and reprioritized in terms of the groups and organizations that it goes to.

It is now going more and more frequently to generic organizations out there, for example, employment counselling organizations, which may have one particular program geared toward women. That is very different than women's centres which have specific understanding of the issues facing women, which can connect women to a range of social services that they need when they are looking to flee an abusive situation, which have connections and networks to the shelters, to the crisis hotlines, to housing programs and to counselling programs.

Your new criterion that's been put in place to expanded funds is being diverted away from women's centres, which are the front-line organizations women feel safe going to in their community. Those centres can reach out and work with women. Perhaps women who first come don't want to disclose that they're in a situation of abuse. Maybe they're looking for other sorts of help. They build trusting relationships.

The fact that those funds now have been withdrawn, because those particular organizations didn't make the request-for-proposal process and get their grants renewed, threatens the continued existence of those centres. In the case of North York, which I raised, that's a third of their funding.

I remember the history of stable funding to women's centres because I was at the cabinet table at the time we made the decision to put in place core funding instead of just project funding, to stabilize the centres so they would remain in communities and would be a secure place for women to come to. That's gone by the wayside with the decision to go back to project funding. You've got to understand the impact. So I ask how women are going to find out and know and access information about how to get these new restraining orders.

The May-Iles jury recommendations, the coroner's jury recommendations, called on the province, the Ministry of the Attorney General, the minister, to put in place a training program for the judiciary to deal with the issue of domestic violence and domestic assault, the risk assessment issue, so that when justices are faced with making decisions about whether to release someone on bail and what the conditions are-whether they should be released at all, whether a risk assessment should be ordered first-they have some education about it. The minister said, "No. They're independent.

We can't do that." But as was pointed out in the coroner's jury report, the Ministry of the Attorney General has in previous years, under a previous administration, done specific sensitivity and educational training with justices around aboriginal justice issues. It has been done. It can be done. It takes the political will.

I want to remind you of all the women whose names I read yesterday and the number of times in those tragic deaths that their murderers had already had contact with the criminal justice system and been released on either recognizance with conditions or bail orders with conditions. The fact that they've been repeatedly released speaks to the need to talk to our judiciary about what the heck's happening. Why are they being let out again when they are clearly a risk and a repeat offender and violator of conditions?

Without the training that has been recommended in May-Iles and in the joint committee report and by the women's organizations that were here two weeks ago, how is that judiciary going to be any better at handling these requests for intervention orders?

The training of the police in terms of how they deal with this-one of the things we always worry about when new initiatives and new measures like this are put in place is that they become an alternative to arrest and incarceration. Everyone is always looking at diversion programs to get people out of the system. When someone's a risk to someone's safety, when someone is hell-bent on killing an intimate partner, we don't want diversionary programs available to them. We don't want police officers to be able to recommend to a woman that she go and get this quick access of a restraining order instead of laying charges.

The program of education for police is going to be critical. And you know what? It's going to have to be monitored, and the only people who will be able to monitor that effectively are the women's advocates out in the communities, again, whose funds have been cut. A recommendation, again from the May-Iles jury report, that there be independent women's advocates funded in our communities to help women interact with the judiciary and with the police and to monitor and advocate on the systemic issues here has been ignored by the government.

It's part of the demands put forward by the cross-sectoral coalition of over 95 women's organizations that came here two weeks ago. That's a necessary piece if this is going to have meaning. I don't believe that you want this to be used as an alternative to charging people and incarcerating them, but someone has to monitor it and you'd better look to put in place the front-line advocates to ensure that happens.

The act also requires a woman to seek a lawyer if she wants to get the restraining order extended beyond 30 days. Where are the expanded resources to help women get through that system? One of the things that the government is planning on doing is a major expansion in the use of paralegal duty counsel in our legal aid system. That is not good enough. The complex issues involved in a woman's life when she is seeking protection from life-threatening abuse require more than a duty counsel for a half-hour and a different person every time you come into the court. Someone has to track it through.

Legal aid has got to be made available not just for the domestic violence issue but the family law issue. There are property issues; there are child custody issues; there are divorce issues. There are all sorts of things that come into this, and we've segmented off what women are able to access. Part of the demands of the over 95 women's organizations that were here a week and a half or two weeks ago was that you address that, that you understand that.

Where are the women going to get the legal help to get these restraining or intervention orders extended beyond the 30 days? It has to be done with the help of a lawyer.

I don't want to say that intervention orders and restraining orders are of no use, but a lot of people have said that they're not worth the paper they're printed on. I think this bill tries to make them a little bit more worth the paper they're printed on. But you still have to look at where they are in the hierarchy of things: as I said, below bail orders, below peace bonds. If bail orders are more serious, if bail orders already have a Criminal Code offence attached to breaching the conditions, and if that hasn't stopped some of the men I referred to yesterday who killed their intimate partners, how is this restraining order going to?

Gillian Hadley's husband had been arrested and released with conditions. He was arrested again a number of months later, in January this year. He was released by the officer in charge on his own recognizance with conditions. He'd violated conditions already; he's released again with conditions. In February he was arrested, charged with assault and violation of the conditions from January. He was released again on bail with conditions, and he went out and he murdered Gillian. If someone is going to kill, do they worry about the criminal offence of violating the conditions of bail or an officer-in-charge recognizance or in this case now a restraining order?

The minister's announcement talks about expanded counselling for abusers in this situation. Gillian Hadley's husband was in anger management counselling, by the way; it was already part of the conditions. I find it amazing that in your announcements over the last little while, you're prepared to say you're going to expand the court-ordered counselling for abusers. Where is the expanded counselling for the women who are abused? That's what we're calling for, too.

The Minister of Community and Social Services fought hard, I believe, for a budget commitment last year of $10 million. You reannounced that, unfortunately, on the same day that the coalition of women's groups was here to make their voices heard. There were more than a few who felt that was an attempt of the heavy hand of government to silence them, to undercut their message. It was reannounced, but it's for counselling for children who witness domestic violence, and that's important, and it's for a very small bit of transition counselling. You know what? It doesn't even make up fo