2009 Legislative Session: First Session, 39th Parliament

HANSARD

The following electronic version is for informational purposes only.

The printed version remains the official version.

official report of

Debates of the Legislative Assembly

(hansard)

Wednesday, November 25, 2009

Afternoon Sitting

Volume 9, Number 5

CONTENTS

Page

Routine Business

Introductions by Members

Introduction and First Reading of Bills

Bill M206 — Cosmetic Pesticide and Carcinogen Control Act, 2009

R. Fleming

Bill M207 — Ukrainian Famine and Genocide ("Holodomor") Memorial Day Act, 2009

B. Ralston

Statements (Standing Order 25B)

Prevention of violence against women

L. Reid

Sooke Integrated Health Network

J. Horgan

Ridge Meadows Seniors Society

M. Dalton

Prevention of violence against women

K. Corrigan

Bison industry in B.C.

P. Pimm

Protection of first nations heritage sites

M. Karagianis

Oral Questions

Government handling of security breach involving personal information

C. James

Hon. B. Stewart

S. Simpson

D. Routley

A. Dix

J. Kwan

Impact of Olympic security on airports and businesses

H. Bains

Hon. K. Heed

K. Corrigan

M. Farnworth

K. Conroy

Reports from Committees

Select Standing Committee on Finance and Government Services, report on 2010 budget consultation process

J. Les

Petitions

N. Macdonald

M. Karagianis

H. Bains

B. Routley

M. Sather

Tabling Documents

Book, history of the Queen's Printer for British Columbia

Orders of the Day

Committee of Supply

Estimates: Office of the Premier (continued)

C. James

Hon. G. Campbell

G. Gentner

Hon. N. Yamamoto

Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room

Committee of Supply

Estimates: Ministry of Education

Hon. M. Stilwell

R. Austin

S. Fraser

M. Sather

S. Herbert

V. Huntington

J. Brar

M. Elmore

J. Kwan

D. Black

D. Routley

G. Coons

C. Trevena

J. Horgan

A. Dix

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WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 25, 2009

The House met at 1:35 p.m.

[Mr. Speaker in the chair.]

Routine Business

Prayers.

Introductions by Members

C. James: I have three guests who I'm pleased to introduce today. Malcolm Johnstone, who is the treasurer of CineVic; Diane Searle, a media artist; and actor Dennis Eberts. They're here to show their support for investments in funding for arts and culture. Would the House please make them welcome.

Hon. I. Black: I'd like to welcome Genome B.C. to the House — Dr. Alan Winter, president and CEO; Dr. Tony Brooks, CFO and corporate secretary; Dr. Richard Howlett, director of business development; and Ms. Sally Greenwood, the director of communications and education.

One of their major breakthroughs will protect some children with cancer from losing their hearing. Researchers have analyzed hundreds of variations in key genes and found that two of them are linked to deafness caused by a common chemotherapy drug. This discovery will allow doctors to modify treatment and protect these children's hearing. I would ask the House to help make them feel most welcome.

L. Popham: The Minister of Labour and I have something in common today. Bayside School, from his constituency, is visiting the precinct, and my son Kye goes to school there in grade 6. His whole class, his teacher Kathryn Verronneau and two assistants, Debra Butler and Sean Kenny, who are assisting the 27 students who are here visiting, are coming to have cookies in our caucus room after.

Hon. J. Yap: I'd like members to help me welcome two special guests of mine today who are in the gallery. I see they just arrived. One is Dave Rogers. He's a good friend and constituent and active member of Rotary.

The other guest is an individual who hails from South Africa, specifically near Johannesburg, and his name is Jaco Van Schalkwyk. Mr. Van Schalkwyk is a very special individual. He's the project lead for a project called the Refilwe Community, which is providing help, assistance, health care and support for orphans and families in communities that are called temporary settlements or squatter settlements. It gives comfort to many, many thousands of people in that area. He's here as a guest of Rotary to help with some fundraising for this project, the Refilwe Project.

I'd like to ask all members of the House to welcome this great humanitarian, Mr. Jaco Van Schalkwyk, to British Columbia.

H. Lali: Visiting us here in the galleries right up above are three fine gentlemen from the community of Lillooet. They are the mayor of the district of Lillooet, Dennis Bontron; also the administrator, Grant Loyer; and Chief Bill Machell of the T'it'q'et Indian band.

They're here since yesterday lobbying and meeting with ministers and MLAs and looking after the social and economic interests of their community of Lillooet and the surrounding area. Would the House please give them a warm welcome.

Hon. B. Stewart: This year the Queen's Printer of British Columbia is celebrating its 150th anniversary. The Queen's Printer has been printing, publishing and providing an innovative service for nearly as long as the founding of the Crown colony of British Columbia.

Interestingly, up until the 1970s the Queen's Printer sat in this very chamber to support the proceedings of the Legislative Assembly. In the most natural and fitting of ways, the Queen's Printer has published a book on its 150th year anniversary, The Queen's Printer for British Columbia: A History from 1859 to 2009 . A copy of this book will be delivered to each MLA's office today.

Joining us today in the gallery are some of the staff from the Queen's Printer in the Ministry of Citizens' Services who worked on creating this book — Mr. Vern Burkhardt, the Queen's Printer for British Columbia; Dawson Brenner, the director of print services; Don Swagar, the operations manager print services; Susan Taylor, print agent; Karen Garland, in pre-press; Kim Larkin in pre-press; Leah Renihan, graphic designer; and David Duncan, research and writing. Please make them welcome here today.

[1340]

J. Horgan: Joining us in the precinct today is Juno award–winning recording artist Josh Finlayson of the Skydiggers. Josh was in town to back up Blue Rodeo last night. I just wanted the House to make him welcome and also, through you, hon. Speaker, to let Josh know that it's now time to turn his back on the Maple Leafs. He can let that go. Break the cycle. Break the cycle for your children, Josh. Go, Canucks, go.

J. Thornthwaite: One of the side effects of being an MLA that I've just learned is that we are away from our family more than we would like. I just wanted to let the House know that my daughter Zoey Ann Walter is having her 11th birthday today, which I'm missing. I would hope that the House would wish her a nice, happy birthday. Happy birthday, Zoey.

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N. Macdonald: I have two guests with me here. One is Kelly Charlton. He has just moved to Victoria, and he's a special friend of — I almost feel guilty to say my daughter, who is here — Danielle Macdonald. She's joining us as well. I would like you to join me in making them both feel welcome.

T. Lake: It's a great pleasure for me to have in the gallery today a great friend and colleague, and a constituent of yours, Mr. Speaker — Dr. George Guernsey. Dr. Guernsey was one of the founders of Canada's first centralized veterinary hospital, right here in Victoria.

He has contributed to the profession in many ways: as past president of the British Columbia Veterinary Medical Association and, also, as past president of the Canadian Veterinary Medical Association. He's still involved in veterinary practice around the province and now resides in Summerland, B.C. I would like the whole House to make Dr. Guernsey very welcome.

B. Ralston: In the gallery are a number of Canadians of Ukrainian descent who are here to witness the introduction of a bill to recognize the Holodomor. Ludmilla Weaver, Peter Zachary, Myron Pilip, Maria Pomircha, Bogdan Fedorko, Myroslav Petriw, Alexandra Ciacka, Valentyna Kaspryk, Robert Herchak, Olga Zakariw, Ihor Stanley Osobik, Edward Kwiatkowski, Roman Brunwald and Alexander Teliszewsky. Would the House please make them all welcome.

R. Lee: In the gallery today we have 30 grade 10 students from the Burnaby Central Secondary School, led by their teacher Mr. Wayne Axford and two parents. The new $50.6 million Burnaby Central school is under construction right now. It will be ready to be occupied in 2011. So the students here today will be the first graduates of a brand-new school in Burnaby. Will the House please join me in giving them a very warm welcome.

B. Routley: I have three guests with me in the Legislature today. Rick and Penny Whiteford. Rick was a construction millwright working throughout British Columbia in almost every sawmill at one point or another. Then he was the last chairman at the Youbou sawmill, who I worked with in the union hall in Duncan for almost a decade — a tremendous friend. I'm thankful for his support.

And his wonderful wife Penny and his delightful aunt Flora Whiteford, who is here for the first time. She's lived in Victoria, but she's delighted to be here in the Legislature and look at our beautiful building today. Please join with me in making them feel welcome.

J. McIntyre: I just wanted to add my voice of welcome to Dr. Alan Winter, as he's a constituent of mine. One of the very great pleasures of my job as MLA is to get to know Dr. Winter and the very, very impressive work of Genome B.C. So, welcome.

[1345]

S. Simpson: Hon. Speaker, I know that all members enjoy it when we have the opportunity to have family members come and join us here in the chamber. I'm very pleased that my sister Debbie Simpson and my nephew Kyle Simpson are here for the first time. Not only are they family, but they're also my constituents, and I have reason to believe they probably did vote for me in the last election. So if the House would make them welcome.

I notice, in the gallery here, that an old friend of many of us on this side, Malcolm Crockett, is with us today. I'd like us to make Malcolm welcome.

D. Routley: I would like to join the previous speaker in welcoming Malcolm Crockett to the Legislature. Malcolm put in many a day and many an hour going door to door in our constituency during this past election. He's a man of great flourish and panache. I took all of his advice very well to heart. Some of it I didn't follow. I didn't wear Hawaiian shirts to brighten up my demeanour at the door.

I'd like to thank Malcolm for his great friendship and help and have the House help me welcome him here.

M. Sather: I would be remiss not to also welcome my friend Malcolm here to the House. He's a longtime former resident of Maple Ridge, and we've known each other well and had many good conversations over the years. Would the House please join me as well.

Introduction and

First Reading of Bills

Bill M206 — Cosmetic Pesticide and

Carcinogen Control Act, 2009

R. Fleming presented a bill intituled Cosmetic Pesticide and Carcinogen Control Act, 2009.

R. Fleming: I move first reading of the Cosmetic Pesticide and Carcinogen Control Act.

Motion approved.

R. Fleming: Introduction of this bill enables our province to join other provinces, representing approximately 20 million Canadians, that ban the use of cosmetic pesticides in order to mitigate the threat that these toxins present to our environment, our children, pets and personal health.

The legislation is consistent with and supportive of provincial legislative reform efforts being made by the Union of B.C. Municipalities, the Canadian Cancer Society, the Canadian Association of Physicians for the Environment, Toxic Free Canada and the David Suzuki Foundation.

[ Page 2795 ]

This bill is consistent with recommendations made by the World Health Organization and the International Agency for Research on Cancer.

Over 20 local governments across B.C., representing every region of the province, governing millions of our citizens, have already enacted bylaws to ban the sale of cosmetic pesticides, but these bylaws are ineffective because they lack authority over retail sale of harmful products. The Community Charter act does not give communities legislative authority to ban the sale of pesticides. Only provincial legislation can accomplish this.

Our society faces a huge potential cancer burden from exposure to hundreds of known and possible human carcinogens. The New York Academy of Sciences has found that women exposed to pesticides as children are twice as likely to have breast cancer later in their lives. Research by the Harvard School of Public Health argues that chemicals in some pesticides may be linked to lower intelligence, behavioural disorders, autism, ADHD and asthma in children, even in low-dose exposures.

Cosmetics also put at risk our food supply, and new research links pesticide runoff as a contributor to the decline in salmon returns, from damaged immune systems of our iconic B.C. fish species.

For children and pregnant women, there are no safe levels of exposure to chemicals such as endocrine disruptors and neurotoxins. In protecting our young children, this legislation offers the promise over time of lowered cost of delivering health care services by reducing chronic disease. There is sufficient scientific evidence about the harmful effects of environmental and health effects from chemicals contained in common pesticides. We urge the government to take strong legislative action now.

I move that the bill be placed on the orders of the day at the next sitting of the House…

Mr. Speaker: …after today.

Bill M206, Cosmetic Pesticide and Carcinogen Control Act, 2009, introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

Bill M207 — Ukrainian Famine and

Genocide ("Holodomor")

Memorial Day Act, 2009

B. Ralston presented a bill intituled Ukrainian Famine and Genocide ("Holodomor") Memorial Day Act, 2009.

B. Ralston: I move that a bill intituled the Ukrainian Famine and Genocide ("Holodomor") Memorial Day Act, 2009, be introduced and read a first time now.

Motion approved.

[1350]

B. Ralston: This bill recognizes the famine and genocide that killed millions of Ukrainians in 1932 and '33, during the period of forced collectivization in the Soviet Union. This tragedy — as many as ten million Ukrainians died, one-third of whom were children — is known as the Holodomor in the Ukrainian language. The name is derived from two Ukrainian words: holod meaning hunger, starvation or famine; and moryty , to induce suffering, to kill.

The Holodomor was set in motion because the Soviet leadership at the time feared the national awakening of Ukrainians and their aspirations for cultural expression and an independent state. Survivors of the Holodomor have immigrated to British Columbia and have made a positive contribution to British Columbian society. Some of them join us in the gallery today.

The government of the Ukraine; the Parliament of Canada; the governments of Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba and Ontario; UNESCO; the United Nations; the United States House of Representatives and Senate; the European Parliament; and many other jurisdictions worldwide have officially condemned the Holodomor or recognized it as a genocide.

As well, by coincidence, a similar bill is being introduced today in the legislature of the province of Quebec. This bill will proclaim the fourth Saturday in November of each year Holodomor memorial day to memorialize those who perished as victims of the Holodomor. I look forward to support from both sides of the House in recognizing this tragic episode of Ukrainian history.

I move that this bill be placed on the orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

Bill M207, Ukrainian Famine and Genocide ("Holodomor") Memorial Day Act, 2009, introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

Statements

(Standing Order 25B)

PREVENTION OF

VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN

L. Reid: Ten years ago the United Nations declared November 25, the date, the International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women. This was the date in 1960 that the three Mirabal sisters, political activists in the Dominican Republic, were assassinated on orders of Dominican ruler Rafael Trujillo.

The 20th anniversary of Ecole Polytechnique, the massacre on December 6, is also approaching — a reminder that violence against women is not just something that happens far away. It happens everywhere.

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Today awareness is much higher, and we are doing more than ever to work toward the goal of ending violence against women. The last few years have seen the expansion of transition houses and greatly increased funding so that women and their children can have a safe place where they can learn to live freely again. Multicultural services and increased public outreach offer more options for women facing violence.

Women's organizations are also doing important work to raise awareness to end violence against women. One such group is the Richmond Women's Resource Centre, which works to improve the status of women in the community and society at large. They are often the first point of contact for women facing violence and refer these women to organizations such as Chimo Crisis Services. Chimo is also based in Richmond, and they operate the Nova Transition House. The work these organizations do literally saves lives.

I would like to close by mentioning that today is the first day of the white ribbon campaign, the world's largest effort by men working to end violence against women. This campaign runs from today until the sixth day of December. I encourage everyone to visit www.whiteribbon.ca to offer your support.

SOOKE INTEGRATED HEALTH NETWORK

J. Horgan: I rise today to highlight the work being done by an important group of health practitioners in the Sooke region. The Sooke Integrated Health Network supports and improves the health and quality of life for anyone 19 years of age or over living in the Sooke region who is managing a chronic disease.

The network is a partnership between a patient, their family physician and other health care providers, which may include nurses, dietitians, pharmacists, specialist physicians and other community agencies. This team works together to support the health and chronic disease management of the patient.

A top priority for the Sooke Integrated Health Network is to make their work as community-focused as possible, partnering with six groups to provide services to IHN clients. The local Canadian Diabetes Association provides cooking sessions. The T'sou-ke Nation offers culturally appropriate healthy-living and -eating activities. The SEAPARC leisure complex provides passes for recreational activities. The Edward Milne Community School is the location for a weight-loss program, and the Sooke Family Resource Centre provides workshops and other assistance.

These groups provide supportive, community-based services. I want to congratulate the Sooke Integrated Health Network on having the highest utilization rate of the community support services out of the seven IHNs on Vancouver Island.

We all work better when we're working with other people — with our family members, with our colleagues — to provide positive outcomes in our community. The integrated health network is a positive achievement on Vancouver Island.

[1355]

I encourage all members of the House to support primary care facilities of primary care activities like the integrated health network.

Ridge Meadows Seniors Society

M. Dalton: There's a great seniors organization that I would like to recognize this afternoon before the Legislature — namely, the Ridge Meadows Seniors Society. On October 23 the seniors society celebrated their tenth anniversary of being located in the Ridge Meadows Seniors Centre, which is owned by the city.

The society has 1,700 members and offers a vast array of programs and activities for senior citizens. About 200 volunteers make the society what it is — a centre where our elderly citizens from all over Maple Ridge and Pitt Meadows can come to learn, to have fun, to eat and to participate in physical activities.

There are all types of dance clubs here, including Hawaiian, tap, clogging and Spanish flamenco. There are also table tennis, cribbage, bridge, Scrabble and carpet-bowling clubs, and there's a crafts group. There's a singing group called the Silver Tones and an acting team called the Variety Plus, which has two shows a year with three presentations, all of which fill the 250-seat room.

The seniors society offers fitness programs called gentle joint and yoga and seniors tae kwon do. There's a snooker room, a hair salon and a large workshop.

A dozen retired nurses have clinics and take seniors' blood pressure and sugar levels and answer health questions. A volunteer optician and a pharmacist come by regularly. The restaurant serves a hundred meals a day and another 60 to 70 meals with Meals on Wheels.

This coming Sunday the society will be honouring its many volunteers. I want to publicly thank Betty Levens, the president, and every volunteer, who contribute so much to improving the lives of hundreds, even thousands, of senior citizens in Maple Ridge and Pitt Meadows. They make our communities a much better place to live.

Prevention of

violence against women

K. Corrigan: It's been ten years since the United Nations General Assembly designated the 25th of November as the International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women. In so doing, it recognized that the "human rights of women and of the girl child are an inalienable, integral and indivisible part of universal human rights and recognizing further the need to promote and protect all human rights of women and girls."

[ Page 2797 ]

The stated goal was clear: "An end to these inexcusable crimes — whether it is the use of rape as a weapon of war, domestic violence, sex trafficking, so-called honour crimes or female genital mutilation. We must address the roots of this violence by eradicating discrimination and changing the mindsets that perpetuate it."

These crimes continue around the world, but we have made some progress in Canada. According to a comprehensive StatsCan record from 2006, for example, we have a reduction of spousal assault. Some of the reasons for that include increased use of services by abused women and growth of provincial and territorial domestic violence legislation.

I applaud the government for restoring the cuts of $440,000 to transition houses, counselling services for women and children, and I hope that there will be a recognition of how critical these services are and funding these services are for their future as well.

I'd like to finish with a quote from Reimer.

"We have come a long way in the past decade in acknowledging the severity of different kinds of domestic violence and abuse, yet the problem stubbornly persists…The consequences — the hurt, anger, fear, violence, injuries and exhaustion — affect all of us over generations. We need to stand beside the strangers in our community — not only our family members, friends and neighbours — as they search for a peaceful way of life. Strangers need allies too."

Bison industry in B.C.

P. Pimm: I rise today to talk about the B.C. bison industry. The bison industry is alive and well in the province of British Columbia. The B.C. bison industry is relatively small but is home for approximately 12,000 bison, or about 6.5 percent of the total bison population of Canada.

There are approximately 200,000 bison on many farms across Canada, and this number is increasing annually. Most bison ranchers are concentrated in the western provinces.

[1400]

The bison population in B.C. is distributed as follows: 85 percent in the Peace River; 10 percent in the Cariboo; 3 percent in the Kootenay; and the remaining 2 percent split between the Okanagan, Lower Mainland and right here on Vancouver Island.

The B.C. Bison Association was formed by amalgamating the Peace and Interior bison associations, and they're also members of the Canadian association, which is a national organization that promotes and supports research, marketing, public awareness, food safety, quality programs and other initiatives.

I had an opportunity to attend the B.C. Bison Association's AGM recently, and it was refreshing to see such a diverse group of ranchers and to listen to the concerns they deal with on a daily basis. These ranchers have many of the same concerns that affect others in the agriculture industry, but they continue to keep their proud heads high when many would consider throwing in the towel.

The B.C. bison industry is unique in the fact that B.C. is the only province in Canada to consider bison as wildlife. As a result, all bison ranchers are required to obtain a game farm licence issued by the Ministry of Agriculture and Lands. Bison meat is extremely lean, and if you haven't tried bison, you really don't know what you've been missing.

I'd like to recommend to all of my colleagues to try the bison product, and I challenge them to help promote this great product throughout their ridings. Bison producers fall under many of the same regulatory regimes as the cattle industry, but they don't often receive the same benefits. I wish the best to the bison producers. Hopefully, together we can attain their future goals.

PROTECTION OF

FIRST NATIONS HERITAGE SITES

M. Karagianis: I rise today to talk about shared heritage and the exceptional work of first nations citizens in my community to preserve and protect sacred places that are under threat.

The middens, burial grounds and other traces of habitation that are being unearthed on our ocean shores and along creeks and rivers in British Columbia tell the story of occupation since before the pyramids. These places are our Stonehenge, our Machu Picchu — mysterious, sacred and irreplaceable. Yet they are under threat from development, from construction and even from the weather. Once they are gone, they will be gone forever.

There are Songhees First Nation leaders in my community, dedicated individuals like Cheryl Bryce and Ron Sam, who believe more must be done to protect and preserve this history. Three years ago, when ancient caves were found on Spaet Mountain, they fought to save them. But they were lost, and the caves were destroyed. Sadly, it is a story that is repeated over and over again across the province. Every time we lose a sacred site, we lose a part of ourselves.

By standing up for first nations heritage, Cheryl and Ron are standing up for all of those who have gone before and all of those who are yet to come.

As writer Stephen Hume put it so well in a recent article: "We are all citizens of B.C. together, first nations and settler society, fused by our braided history. When we permit the desecration of important first nations sites, it is our shared heritage that we abuse and our children's legacies that we steal."

I hope the House will join me in recognizing the efforts of leaders in the archaeological community and first nation leaders like Cheryl Bryce and Ron Sam. They speak to our conscience and remind us all of the urgency that we must do better before it is too late.

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Oral Questions

GOVERNMENT HANDLING

OF SECURITY BREACH INVOLVING

PERSONAL INFORMATION

C. James: Mr. Speaker, troubling details have emerged about the theft of personal information of more than 1,400 income assistance recipients. We've learned that the RCMP uncovered these files in the home of a government employee in April. They handed them over to government in May.

The victims of this theft of personal information were not informed until last week that that had happened. For seven months the government knew about the security breach and did absolutely nothing about it. My question is to the Minister of Citizens' Services. Why did his government wait seven months to tell the victims that their personal information had been compromised?

Hon. B. Stewart: I want to make it clear that the government takes privacy matters very seriously, and we're deeply concerned by the breach of privacy of these individuals.

I also want to tell you that when I first found out about this some few weeks ago, I immediately notified the chief information officer of the government as well as the Privacy Commissioner and called in the head of the PSA to basically implement an investigation into why, as government, we weren't notified earlier. As such, we're doing a full review of that at the present time.

[1405]

Mr. Speaker: The Leader of the Opposition has a supplemental.

C. James: This is a very serious matter. These files were found in the home of an employee under investigation by the RCMP, with the help of ICBC's special investigative unit, which deals with fake drivers' licences and identity cards. These were birthdates, social insurance numbers, personal health numbers — all prime information for identity theft.

Again, my question is to the minister. I appreciate that he says he's now looking into the issue, but letters went out from his ministry to inform people. The letters went out seven months after this occurred. Again, to the minister: has he looked into why those letters came seven months later?

Hon. B. Stewart: First of all, I want to empathize with all of the people that have had their privacy compromised in this particular case. But the reality is that due to the fact that I wasn't notified until just some few weeks ago, it was very difficult for me to act on what I didn't necessarily know about.

That's what the investigation is all about. We're launching an investigation internally to find out exactly whether the procedures that the government has about privacy protection of individuals in government has been protected. That's what we're proposing to do.

I'll commit to you today the fact that as soon as we have that information and investigation complete, we'll release that information to make certain we're clear on this and exactly what happened during that time and what should have happened.

Mr. Speaker: The Leader of the Opposition has a further supplemental.

C. James: I certainly think that British Columbians who apply for income assistance, who are required to give sensitive information, would expect that the minister would be a little more on top of this file.

They trusted the government to protect their information. After seven months the victims get a letter from government that says: "Oh sorry. You might actually want to check your credit records." The letter didn't even tell the individuals that a breach has occurred.

Again, while I appreciate the minister is doing an investigation on what happened, I think it's important that the minister explain to these victims why the letter came out and didn't inform them that a breach had occurred when the minister says he knew.

Hon. B. Stewart: I want to make it clear that, first of all, I personally was very concerned by this matter when I first learned about it. But the reality is the first thing that we had to do was find out exactly what had taken place. One of the first things that I was informed of is that during the RCMP investigation, they assured government that the reality is that this information, they believe, has not been compromised.

We've sent the letter to the 1,400 individuals to ensure that they're aware of the fact that their privacy may have been breached. We've detailed in that letter exactly what information may have been breached. We flagged their Medical Services Plan. The reality is that we're taking every precaution to make certain their privacy is protected.

S. Simpson: Hon. Speaker, 1,400 individuals compromised by government ineptness — 1,400 British Columbians potentially put at risk because of a lack of due diligence by the B.C. Liberals. And if that isn't bad enough, we now learn that the government sat on this information for seven months without informing these people that their identities may have been put at risk.

This minister has been on the job for over five months. How are we supposed to believe he only learned about this a couple of weeks ago, and if he only learned a couple of weeks ago, who else over there knew seven months ago?

[ Page 2799 ]

Hon. B. Stewart: Well, first of all, I can tell you that I only learned of this matter a few weeks ago. The reality is that I took the steps that I think were necessary in terms of asking staff as to what the government's privacy policy was in terms of a breach.

We do take this matter seriously — 1,400 people. We certainly believe that our job is to make certain that we do take that protection.

[1410]

As I stated earlier, I was informed that the RCMP believe that no information was compromised. As such, there's an ongoing, unrelated investigation by the RCMP that led to this discovery. The fact is that it's my ministry's objective in the investigation to make certain we find out how the time elapsed from the time that the government first learned of this incident until the time that I was notified — as to why that lapse occurred. We'll let you know.

Mr. Speaker: Member has a supplemental.

S. Simpson: Hon. Speaker, we can be assured that the RCMP didn't just come and drop the files at the front door of the Legislature. They returned those files to the government, and I'm sure they did it in a formal way. If this minister is telling us that he didn't know about this until three weeks ago, maybe the files were returned to the Minister of Housing and Social Development.

Has the Minister of Citizens' Services taken the time to ask his colleague when he got the files and why he never told this minister that this compromise had happened?

Hon. B. Stewart: First of all, as I said, we're deeply concerned by this, and we take this matter very seriously. The reality is that the individual that was involved in this…. We took steps immediately to suspend, investigate to make certain that we had the facts right and terminate this particular employee — the employee that is involved.

I mean, we're basically looking at the information. Anybody that is involved in this will be held accountable to make certain that…. Basically, if there's any wrongdoing, they'll be held accountable for it.

D. Routley: This government proves yet again one of two things: its absolute untrustworthiness or its absolute incompetence. Take your pick.

It took seven months for this government to get its act together. These are the personal files of British Columbians. This is an important matter. How could any British Columbian believe that the government would find out and only seven months later the minister responsible would find out? It's incomprehensible.

Which is it, Mr. Minister? Is it incompetence in this government, or is it a lack of trustworthiness? Can British Columbians trust their government with their information?

Hon. B. Stewart: I just want to say that we have great confidence in the men and women that work in the public service of this government.

I want to assure the members opposite that once we have the facts, we will make certain…. Basically, we'll make people accountable for whatever wrongdoing has been done, and we'll release the information to the opposition in this House.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

Member has a supplemental.

D. Routley: Well, the minister talks about the members of the public service. I don't think any of our questions have been directed at the members of the public service. Clearly, they did their job. What we are directing our questions toward is a government that has failed to manage the information, personal information, of British Columbians.

The next question of every British Columbian would be: what is the minister doing about it? What is he doing to make accountable those people who have caused this breach of personal information in British Columbia?

Hon. B. Stewart: I said that we had great confidence in the men and women who are charged with the responsibility of making certain that they do the job for government, making certain that they ensure some of the strictest privacy laws in the country.

[1415]

The reality is that each one of them signs an oath of confidentiality, and we expect that the employees will adhere to that. As such, I said that we don't have all the facts. The reality is that when we have the facts, we will make certain….

A. Dix: I know that the minister's first set of questions were explaining why the Premier and the government covered up information about income assistance during the election campaign. Now he is having to explain away the incompetence of the Minister of Housing.

This happened seven months ago. People have been kept in the dark for seven months. He said he learned about it two or three weeks ago. During that two or three weeks….

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

A. Dix: Can the minister explain when or if he has talked to his colleague the Minister of Housing? When did the Minister of Housing learn about this breach?

Hon. B. Stewart: You know, I empathize with all of the individuals whose privacy has been compromised

[ Page 2800 ]

in this situation, and we as government are deeply concerned. But the reality is that we don't have all the facts. I was notified, as I told you, a few weeks ago. At that time I believe that we took the right steps as a government that protects privacy and individuals, as we should, to find out exactly where the failure occurred. The fact is that the investigation is ongoing. As soon as that has been delivered, we're prepared to share that information with the opposition.

Mr. Speaker: Member has a supplemental.

A. Dix: Can the minister explain…? It's a very simple question. In the three weeks that he has known about this, in the three weeks since the public affairs bureau deigned to inform him about it — according to his own comments…. Has he in those three weeks, if he is so interested, walked across the House and asked the Minister of Housing and Social Development what happened and when he knew about this breach of personal information?

Hon. B. Stewart: You know, I can assure the member opposite that the reality is that all of the members on this side of the House take this matter….

Interjection.

Hon. B. Stewart: The reality is that all of the members on this side of the House take privacy seriously.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

Hon. B. Stewart: The reality is that one of the things we're trying to do is basically find out the facts. The Minister of Housing and Social Development and the Minister of Children and Families are very concerned as well, and they want the facts. But the investigation is ongoing. Once we have that information, we're quite happy to share it — as well as the RCMP investigation that's unrelated — when it's concluded.

J. Kwan: My question to the minister is this. Did he talk to his colleague the Minister of Housing when he found out there was such a breach?

Hon. B. Stewart: You know, of course, originally when this first came out, my priority was the concern for the privacy of the individuals that had their privacy compromised.

As I have explained before, the fact is that the chief information officer, myself and the head of the Public Service Agency sat down, met and reviewed as to how we were going to proceed.

Obviously, one of the first things that we wanted to do was find out some of the facts that we'd only just recently been told about. The reality is that we launched an investigation, notified the Privacy Commissioner's office and took steps to make certain that the other ministries were informed of the privacy breach.

Mr. Speaker: Does the member have a supplemental?

J. Kwan: Seven months ago people's private information was breached. The public affairs bureau told the minister. The minister found out.

[1420]

Did the minister in that period take the time to talk to his colleague, the lead minister, whose clients' information had been breached and financial security may well be in jeopardy because of this breach?

Can the minister just get up and answer this question clearly. Did he take the time to talk to his colleague, the Minister of Housing, about this breach and to see what action he is taking to ensure that his clients' privacy information is protected?

Hon. B. Stewart: I can tell the member opposite that we are very proud of the fact that we have some of the strongest privacy laws in the country.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Minister, just take your seat.

Continue, Minister.

Hon. B. Stewart: I just want to reiterate the fact that we take the matter of privacy very seriously, and the men and women of the Public Service Agency are deeply committed to making certain that they administer it.

It's our intention to make certain that we fully investigate this matter and find out exactly where these issues have gone wrong, and we're prepared to act on whatever is necessary to make certain…. The fact is, that if there was any violation of the law, they will be held fully accountable.

IMPACT OF OLYMPIC SECURITY

ON AIRPORTS AND BUSINESSES

H. Bains: In the spring we heard from rural British Columbians about the impact of Olympic security on rural airports. Now we find out that at Boundary Bay Airport, the air traffic restrictions have been increased from two to eight weeks. This will have a profound impact on the businesses that operate out of Boundary Bay.

Can the minister responsible for the Olympics tell us today in this House what is being done to ensure that those businesses aren't being hurt by Olympic security measures?

[ Page 2801 ]

Hon. K. Heed: The Integrated Security Unit and the RCMP are working in conjunction with several agencies across British Columbia to ensure that we have safe games. Part of that is to review the aviation we have around the games during games time, before and after the games time.

The integrated security services unit is working with the people that are going to be affected, the areas in British Columbia that are going to be affected, number one, because of the security rules. We want to ensure that we do whatever we can to have the safest games here in British Columbia, and we are working with communities, we are working with groups to ensure that that takes place.

The Speaker: The member has a supplemental.

H. Bains: The Professional Flight Centre at Boundary Bay will lose 75 percent of its revenue because of these measures. They will lose students. Many of them are from outside of Canada, and once they leave them, they will never get them again.

In a letter, the centre's president, John Montgomery, says this: "The truth of the matter is that once this two-month shutdown period is over, it's going to take a long time to build up a student clientele again."

My question, again, is to the minister responsible for the Olympics: will the minister commit today to work with these small businesses to offset the impacts that these security changes will have?

Hon. K. Heed: The 2010 Integrated Security Unit is working with all stakeholders to minimize inconvenience and to work out solutions for these communities so that we can not have disruptions and that we can carry on with business. But at the same time, we want to ensure that we have safe games for the visitors to British Columbia, the spectators, the athletes and all those around British Columbia that want to see the games and celebrate with us as we move forward on these great Olympic Games.

[1425]

K. Corrigan: Well, apparently, now we have four Olympic ministers, and absolutely none of them are accountable.

The Olympic spirit shouldn't mean that businesses have to shut down. Business owners are lying awake worrying about their very long-term viability. John Montgomery says: "We are effectively paying a huge personal price for the Olympic Games coming to Vancouver and, in fact, may not survive it."

Will the Minister of State for the Olympics commit today to taking some real steps to ensure these businesses are not paying the price for your government's poor planning?

Hon. K. Heed: This is the largest security event in Canada's history. We have more coordination of resources involved in ensuring this remains a safe and secure games for all to enjoy. We are working with communities. We are working with stakeholders that will be affected by this. We want to make sure that at the end of the day, we have solutions that work for them but solutions to ensure that we have a safe and secure games here in British Columbia.

Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental.

K. Corrigan: It's the height of hypocrisy. Everyone is supposed to be benefiting from these games, but this government's actions are killing businesses. The Professional Flight Centre is expecting to lay off staff, and they are genuinely worried that some of those staff will leave and not come back.

In his letter, Mr. Montgomery says: "It is not a lot of fun walking around my house at 3 a.m. worrying about this. In short…

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

K. Corrigan: …we're going to be drastically affected. There's no other way to say it."

Businesses like this are worried about their very survival. When will the minister do what's right and ensure that businesses like the Professional Flight Centre aren't severely harmed by changes to Olympic security measures?

Hon. K. Heed: In 79 days the world will see all that B.C. has to offer. We want the world to come to British Columbia and to be safe and secure.

The Vancouver 2010 Integrated Security Unit is working in coordination with several of the other agencies out there. They've formed steering committees not only within local governments and within our government but with the federal government to ensure that, at the end of the day, we deliver the best games possible for all of the world to celebrate.

Mr. Speaker: Member for Port Coquitlam.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

M. Farnworth: Thank you, hon. Speaker. Depending on the answer we get, there may be time for an awful lot more questions.

Now, the Solicitor General has just stood up in this House and said that this is one of the largest security efforts in Canadian history. Well, one would assume, then, that he's learned from other major security efforts in our nation, such as the G8 in Kananaskis and the G8 that was held in Quebec City.

[ Page 2802 ]

In both those jurisdictions, when those major international security events took place, airspace was restricted and the businesses operating in those airspaces were compensated and made whole and did not suffer a loss as a result of the security exercise.

Given that you're supposed to have learned from those events, will you commit today in this House that those businesses that are being shut down and inconvenienced because of the security around the airspace will be kept whole, as they were in Kananaskis and as they were in Quebec City?

Hon. K. Heed: I was on the ground at Kananaskis. I saw the great security that was in place to ensure the security of the world leaders.

[1430]

There will be an Olympic control area around the Vancouver games. As with any major international event, such as what took place in Kananaskis, there will be aircraft that will be prohibited from entering and leaving the particular areas. There are security planners that are in place dealing with this right now. We recognize that this will have an impact on the aviation industry and communities. That's why we are working with them for solutions — so we can move forward.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

The member has a supplemental.

M. Farnworth: The solution was clear in Kananaskis. They kept those businesses whole. The solution was clear in Quebec City. They kept those businesses whole.

The solution is staring the minister in the face. Make sure those businesses that are impacted by the closure of the airspace are not financially impacted. Give them the same solution that was done in other international conferences, and make them whole. Will the minister commit to doing that?

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

Hon. K. Heed: We are working with the stakeholders that are affected. We are working with them. We have committees in place to talk about solutions together, not to reach ends right now. We want to work with them to make sure….

Number one, our priority is to make sure we have the safest and most secure games. When you have such a large event anywhere, there are going to be security precautions that it's incumbent upon us to make sure take place. The Integrated Security Unit is doing their due diligence to make sure it takes place, but on the other end, they're working with the communities. They're working with the stakeholders that will be affected to ensure, at the end of the day, that we have a lot to be proud of, that we delivered the best and most secure and safe games for everyone to enjoy.

K. Conroy: Mr. Speaker, that's just not true, because they are not working with the smaller airlines in rural B.C.

It's not just the flight schools that are suffering; it is those smaller airlines like Pacific Coastal. They are seeing significant challenges in rural B.C. They're committed to the communities they serve. They want to keep providing the services, and they are not finding those solutions. There are no solutions coming from this government, so what is the minister talking about?

Perhaps the Minister of State for the Olympics might know the solutions. Maybe she can let us know: what are they doing to help the organizations like Pacific Coastal deal with these solutions and make sure that rural B.C. is getting the service it needs?

Hon. K. Heed: Aviation security, security planners, stakeholders such as the airlines that operate in these communities have been consulted for over two years. We are working with them. We will continue to work with them, because in 79 days we are going to celebrate here in British Columbia with the best Olympic Games ever.

[End of question period.]

Reports from Committees

J. Les: I have the honour to present the report of the Select Standing Committee on Finance and Government Services for the first session of the 39th parliament, representing the 2010 budget consultation process.

I move that the report be taken as read and received.

[1435]

Motion approved.

Petitions

N. Macdonald: I stand to present a petition from Columbia River–Revelstoke, almost 600 names signed on a petition to stop the HST.

M. Karagianis: I have a petition to present.

Mr. Speaker: Proceed.

M. Karagianis: I have a petition with 2,218 names on it asking the government to maintain the EIBI program, early intensive behavioural intervention, for autistic children.

[ Page 2803 ]

H. Bains: I rise to present a petition.

Mr. Speaker: Proceed.

H. Bains: I have over 700 signatures on a petition from Surrey asking this government to scrap their plans to implement the HST.

B. Routley: I have a petition from constituents in the Cowichan Valley, 569 signatures in opposition to the HST.

M. Sather: I seek leave to present a petition.

Mr. Speaker: Proceed.

M. Sather: I have signatures of 1,070 petitioners in Maple Ridge and Pitt Meadows calling on the government to scrap the HST.

Tabling Documents

Hon. B. Stewart: I think in the most natural and fitting of ways, the Queen's Printer published the book on the 150-year history of the Queen's Printer for British Columbia, and I'd like to present a copy to the House.

Mr. Speaker: Thank you, Minister.

Orders of the Day

Hon. G. Abbott: In Committee A, I call….

Interjections.

Hon. G. Abbott: Well, thank you very much. All that heckling is paying off, clearly, with the opposition.

In Committee A, Mr. Speaker….

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

Hon. G. Abbott: In Committee A, the estimates of the Ministry of Education. In this chamber, the continuing estimates of the Office of the Premier.

[1440-1445]

Committee of Supply

ESTIMATES: OFFICE OF THE PREMIER

(continued)

The House in Committee of Supply (Section B); L. Reid in the chair.

The committee met at 2:46 p.m.

On Vote 10: Office of the Premier, $11,535,000 (continued) .

The Chair: I would take this opportunity, hon. Members, to caution against the repetitive nature of debate.

C. James: I want to start off this afternoon to take a look at the Premier's service plan and some of the particular areas in the Premier's service plan. I'd just like to read from that plan a couple of key points. This comes from the Premier's update '09-10 and '11-12.

It says that the Office of the Premier "articulates government's goals, commitments and priorities and works with ministries and Crown agencies to ensure communication of these goals, commitments and priorities and to track and monitor implementation of them."

We know that one of the government's goals and priorities, as outlined, is the HST. So I'd like to start this

section by talking about the HST — to go through with the Premier the information around the HST and to again come back to the Premier's service plan, where he talks about his responsibility in articulating government's goals, commitments and priorities, and talk about how that relates to the HST.

I want to just start off by reminding the Premier what he and his party chose to make their public position on the HST during the election. I'll just read it out. Here's what the B.C. Liberal Party presented as its position in answer to a specific question that came from the Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association.

"While some British Columbians have suggested that a harmonized PST and GST might be beneficial, others have pointed out that it would extend the PST tax base to a broader range of goods and services that are presently exempt from the provincial sales tax….

"The B.C. Liberals are also mindful that a harmonized GST would reduce the provincial government's ability to unilaterally adjust sales tax rates. The harmonized GST would make it harder for future provincial governments to lower or raise sales taxes, which in fact reduces flexibility.

"In short, a harmonized GST is not something we are contemplating in the B.C. Liberal platform, but we are committed to improving the tax system."

Just to remind the Premier, that was the B.C. Liberal response to the Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association.

My question is to the Premier. Would the Premier agree that this election pledge in fact gave the restaurant industry and other British Columbians comfort that his government would not introduce the HST?

The Chair: If I might, hon. Member. This does not have a bearing on the administration of the Office of the Premier.

C. James: Related specifically to the Premier's accountability statement, the Premier's office "articulates government's goals, commitments and priorities and

[ Page 2804 ]

works…to ensure communication of these goals." That is the responsibility from the Premier's office.

[1450]

Communication of the HST is one of the critical goals of government. So my question again is to the Premier. Would the Premier agree that the election pledge, given during the election campaign, gave assurances to the public and to the restaurant association that the government would not be implementing the HST — and therefore impacted his government's ability, according to his service plan, to be able to communicate the goal around the HST?

The Chair: Again, to the Leader of the Opposition: questions pertaining directly to the HST would have been more properly put to the Ministry of Finance during the Finance estimates.

Hon. G. Campbell: To try and clarify this matter, this was an answer that was provided by our party during the election. It did reflect the position of the government at the time. It also, I think, highlights a number of areas we were concerned about that we felt had been mitigated.

In fact, it's going to be a future tax policy. It's something that I would suggest will be appropriate to discuss in next year's activities with regard to what we're trying to do.

There's no question that the HST is going to strengthen our economy. One of the things we were clear about during the campaign is that we had every intention to strengthen our economy as it came out of this economic downturn.

The service plan, I think, speaks for itself. We have to ensure that we are delivering on the commitments that British Columbians expect, that the public service is doing its job, and I think it has been doing its job.

C. James: Will the Premier agree that the HST is one of his government's goals?

[1455]

Hon. G. Campbell: I think it is clear that creating a strong economy for British Columbians that creates jobs is a critical goal for our government. It was itemized in the five great goals. It's something that we have pursued over the last number of years while we've been in government.

It is important to note that there are a number of tax policies that help us do this. We believe the HST is one of those. It will strengthen our economy with the renewed flexibility that we have. It's obviously going to strengthen our economy. As many people are aware, it is the single most important thing we have been informed by leading economists across the country that we can do to strengthen the economy, to strengthen investment, to encourage job creation, to make us more productive and more competitive.

Making sure that we have a stronger economy as we come out of this economic downturn is clearly one of the government's goals. There are a whole range of activities that take place around that goal and that endeavour. Clearly, a competitive tax regime that encourages investment and encourages job creation is an important part of that.

C. James: Using the Premier's description of the HST as the single most important thing that this government could do for the economy, wouldn't the Premier agree that if this was the single most important thing that could be done, perhaps he should have given an opportunity to the public to be able to make a decision, knowing the government was going ahead with the HST?

Hon. G. Campbell: I think the Minister of Finance has reviewed in some detail the steps that were taken with regard to the HST. All of those steps were after the election. I do think it's important to note that in this particular budget that we're discussing today…. We have identified in our strategic plan that we have an agreement with the federal government, which allows us to have the flexibility that we were concerned about.

It actually also provides for additional resources to try and support health and education as we go through this period of time. I think it is important to note that in protecting the health and education funding and actually being able to use those bridge dollars…. Those are important, but it's also important to note that we said throughout the campaign that we wanted to make sure our economy was stronger when we came out of this downturn as opposed to being static.

[1500]

As we looked at building that strength, and when we discovered what was taking place with regard to added flexibility, additional resources for transition funds that would come from the federal government, plus the fact that Ontario was going to move to adopt the HST, frankly, I think most of us in government felt we would be at an economic disadvantage were we not to act, and act immediately. We've stated that time and time again.

We would have been at a competitive disadvantage with Ontario for any major investment decisions that were being made. We did not want to put British Columbians at a competitive disadvantage, particularly when we had run in a campaign saying that we expected our economy to come out of this even stronger.

We wanted to be more competitive, and I think it's clear that the HST initiative will make our industries more competitive. It will create one of the best investment climates in this country, certainly, with what we currently have — a better investment climate than either

[ Page 2805 ]

Ontario, in terms of marginal tax dollars or marginal tax costs, or Alberta. Those are two major competitors that we have in Canada.

I think it's really important to note that there are thousands and thousands — in fact, over a million — of British Columbians that depend on competitive resource industries like forestry, like mining, like energy, like the many businesses that are represented by the chamber of commerce, all of whom in the past had said that they felt that they wanted the government to adopt an HST.

We were not ready to consider that. In fact, we did not consider that in our budget process in spite of the fact that year in and year out during budget consultations, it had been advocated by many of those same groups. It was clear, I think, that we did not feel there was the kind of flexibility necessary to have a made-in-B.C. tax regime.

With the agreement that we have reached with the federal government, it is possible to have a made-in-British-Columbia tax regime. It is possible to have the lowest HST in the country. It is possible to either raise that HST or lower that HST after two years. The decision-making is in the hands of the provincial government.

It was possible for us to look at how we would tailor the 5 percent of the HST universe that we would make sure was not going to be included in HST. All of those gave us the level of flexibility that we felt we could move forward with, in view of the fact that we were going to encourage investment, job creation, competitiveness and productivity in the province.

Again, when the forest industry comes and says, "This is the most important single step you could take for our industry"; when you hear the mining industry say, "It's the most important step you could take for our industry"; and when you hear the same thing from the energy industry, from transportation, from construction — almost $2 billion of economic benefits across the province — I think it was incumbent upon us to act in the best interests of British Columbians in the long term. That's what the government has done.

C. James: I would have also thought that the Premier would have presumed that being open and transparent was also important and that the millions of people in British Columbia actually had the right to be able to have full information about the government moving on what the Premier himself says is one of the most important measures that can be taken. Yet that didn't happen, as we know.

I just want to ask the Premier to come back to the comments that were made by his party during the election. I just want to come back again to ask the Premier whether he still agrees with the party's position that they put out during the election — that the HST adds a tax to a broader range of goods and services that are presently exempt from a provincial sales tax.

The Chair: I would ask the member to bring her questions in line with consideration of defraying the expenses for the Office of the Premier.

Hon. G. Campbell: The short answer is: yes, it does.

C. James: The Premier says he agrees with that election position, which was that a broader range of goods and services that are presently exempt from the provincial sales tax…. If that's so, if the Premier agrees with that statement and continues to agree with that statement, then I would ask the Premier why he's moving forward with the HST.

[1505]

Hon. G. Campbell: I will go back and review some of the things that we believe are important. First of all, this move will reduce British Columbia's marginal effective tax rate by 40 percent, below Ontario and below Alberta. The overall tax burden on British Columbia investments will be the second lowest in Canada.

By reducing input costs and actually having a transparent tax regime, we believe that consumers will save money over time. More importantly, we believe that our economy will be strengthened, throughout the economy. The entire economy benefits from investment, from economic growth and from people having jobs.

So when you see that there are substantial economic benefits, considering about $1.9 billion of benefits to the economy — $880 million in the construction industry, one of our primary industries in this province that drives economic growth; $140 million from manufacturing; $210 million in the transportation industry; $140 million in the forest industry; $80 million in mining and oil and gas industry….

When you know that there is approximately $150 million of compliance costs that will be removed and when you see that on top of that, British Columbia has the ability to set our HST at the lowest level in Canada, when you have the flexibility to adjust that HST over time…. It will be set at 12 percent for two years, but following that, it can be increased by whatever percent or reduced by whatever percentage.

We believe this is a decision that will strengthen our economy, as we said we would do; that will make us more competitive, as we've always strived to be; and that will provide for increases in productivity, reduction in greenhouse gases. There are a number of direct benefits that will result from the fact that we are adopting the HST. We will continue to pursue those benefits and continue to inform the public with regard to those.

I think it's a critically important step to take in view of the flexibility that we were able to obtain from the federal government in moving ahead with the harmonized sales tax.

[ Page 2806 ]

C. James: Given the description that the Premier gave — that he believes this tax will do so many things in British Columbia…. I do note that the Premier left out all the impacts of the HST, but I'll get to those as we're going along. He described it as the single most important thing that could be done.

Doesn't the Premier believe that he should have given the public a choice about the HST — told the public during the election campaign that the HST was going to be introduced and given the public an informed choice?

[1510]

Hon. G. Campbell: Let me reiterate that during the election campaign, we had no intention of dealing with the HST. In fact, it was not on our menu of actions that we would be taking because, as I've mentioned, there was not the flexibility. At least, we were not aware of the flexibility that later came, that we later learned about. So it was not there — right?

What we did say in the campaign, though, quite clearly, was that we intended to work to make sure that we would rebuild our economy, that we would be sure we kept British Columbia's economy going strong and that we would be competitive and productive.

Following the election, the Minister of Finance did meet with federal officials. There was a huge amount of flexibility that was built in that allowed us to do a number of things, which would have been critical to us at any rate. I think flexibility is critical.

We can set our own HST rate. That's why we actually have the lowest HST rate in Canada. Within the agreement that we have, we can exempt up to 5 percent of the HST product base. That included things like motor fuels, where this government decided that we were going to have a carbon tax that we were going to put in place, to put an actual price on carbon emissions. We decided on that.

Clearly, with HST, if we didn't have that level of flexibility, we would not have gone forward with that. So when the Minister of Finance discovered the flexibility that was built in, the long-term flexibility that was included, and when he considered the literally thousands of jobs that potentially could be created by a more competitive tax regime, we felt that was an important initiative for us to undertake.

In fact, as I've said, British Columbians…. Or at least, in terms of the Finance Committee of the Legislature, over a number of years people had advocated the adoption of an HST. Why did they advocate it? Because they saw, number one, that there were significant compliance costs that they were faced with every year. Small businesses, the chamber of commerce, the agriculture industry in B.C. and the forest industry — all of them representing literally hundreds of thousands of workers — had said that it was an important initiative for us to undertake.

With the flexibility, with the agreement we were able to sign with the federal government, we felt we had a tailor-made, made-in-British-Columbia decision, that we actually could deliver on the commitments we had made to British Columbians that they would have a more competitive economy, a more productive economy and less impact on the environment. All of those things, including the thousands of jobs, are encouraged by the HST.

The Chair: Members, Standing Order 61 clearly provides that debate in Committee of Supply must be strictly relevant to the item or vote under consideration. The vote today under consideration is Vote 10, the expenses of the Office of the Premier. HST was canvassed extensively in the Ministry of Finance estimates.

C. James: Considering that the HST agreement…. The Premier himself has said that the HST agreement was signed with the federal government, was negotiated with the federal government.

The Premier has talked about the fact that the HST was announced this year. The Premier was part of that announcement, and I certainly feel, as he's continued on answering questions around the HST, that this is one of the government's — as is said in the Premier's office, of the Premier's statement — goals and objectives, the HST. Therefore, the Premier's office is directly involved in this announcement around the HST.

Therefore, I'd like to ask the Premier…. He mentioned that there is flexibility around the HST. Well, I think the Premier's definition of flexibility and mine and this side of the House's and the public's definition of flexibility might be very different. To me, 5 percent exemptions do not seem like flexibility around using the tax system. In fact, 5 percent exemptions take away the ability for the tax system to be used for the purpose of British Columbia.

I think it's interesting. The Premier mentioned that there were a number of people who spoke in favour of the HST, but even the Finance Committee in 2008, in their report to the government, said that the government should review the HST with a specific caveat to do so with a view to ensure that there will be no negative impact on consumers nor on government's capacity to use the sales tax for public policy purposes.

I'd like to ask the Premier why he didn't listen to the advice of the Finance Committee in their 2008 report, because it's very clear that 5 percent exemptions do not give the flexibility for government to be able to use the sales tax as a public policy tool.

[1515]

Hon. G. Campbell: I will be guided by the Chair, but let me just respond quickly with regard to the government's strategy with regard to this, with the issue of how we build a strong economy.

[ Page 2807 ]

I think it's also important to note, though, that even in the budget we have passed that was, I'm sure, canvassed with the Minister of Finance during the Finance Ministry's estimates, there are a number of steps we have taken to try and reflect the spirit of the recommendations that have come through from the legislative Finance Committee that she refers to.

For example, the province is going to provide a rebate for residential energy — oil, electricity, natural gas or propane used to heat or power a home. That's a provincial tax strategy. It had nothing to do with whether we were allowed to do it. We could make that decision as a provincial government. That's how we're going to do it.

We also provided for a significant $230-a-year credit for low-income individuals which will benefit over one million people in the province. We also decided that we were going to raise the personal tax exemptions that people had. All of those are ways that you can actually provide for a long-term, stronger economy.

Just in closing with regard to my comments with regard to this, when you think about the organizations that have said that this is a critically important thing….

B.C. Chamber of Commerce: "This measure saves business money…reduces government expenditures while providing protection for those on low income. In addition to these savings, the consumer will also be a winner, as business will pass the savings on they make, such as $150 million annually in compliance costs alone, onto consumers in the form of lower prices."

The Coast Forest Products Association: "Those regions that have introduced a value-added tax like the HST see increases in productivity and investment…for our industry, that means levelling the playing field with our competitors and providing us with an opportunity to invest in and maintain wealth-creating, high-paying jobs."

The Retail Council of Canada: "Harmonization will result in a simpler, more efficient tax system for B.C. businesses. This will help smaller retailers in particular, who find administering two separate tax systems difficult and costly."

There are a number of them. As we move to make the decision with regard to the HST, we continue to encourage input from the public on how we can mitigate any challenges they face.

[1520]

There is no question that we have given up some flexibility. The world is not exactly as it was before. In British Columbia it will be more competitive; it will encourage more investment; it will create more jobs; it will encourage the forest industry; it will encourage the mining industry; it will help small business.

All of those things are changing as a result of that. All of those things, I suggest, will allow our economy to come out of this downturn even stronger, which was one of the fundamental commitments we made as a government in the election.

C. James: We know that the Premier, as Premier, is directly involved in decisions made by government and certainly in decisions such as this, which the Premier calls the single most important thing that could be done. So could the Premier tell me when he approved the HST?

Hon. G. Campbell: Obviously, not just the Premier but cabinet was informed about the discussions and the negotiations that had taken place between the Minister of Finance in British Columbia and the Ministry of Finance at the federal level. It was a cabinet decision that was made in the middle of July of 2009.

C. James: Just continuing on, then. The Premier says that the cabinet decision was made in July. The Finance Minister has said that he knew about the HST by the end of May. Could the Premier tell me what conversations he had with the Finance Minister at the end of May about the HST?

Hon. G. Campbell: I had a number of discussions with the Minister of Finance once he commenced having discussions with federal officials around the end of May. Those were ongoing discussions right up through to the cabinet's decision. It might have been, you know…. I don't know the number. I had a number of discussions with them, I'm sure.

C. James: I think these are very important questions, and I recognize that the Premier says he doesn't remember. But I think this is very important for the public, because the public was told during the election campaign that there was no HST. After the campaign, until the middle of summer, there was absolutely no word about the HST.

So I think that, for very good reason, the public is questioning where the information came from, what discussions had occurred previously, and why they weren't told about this major regressive tax shift that was going to occur in British Columbia.

[1525]

Just to ask a few more specifics, then, of the Premier. As has been said, the Finance Minister said that by the end of May he knew that the HST was on the table. He started having discussions. The Premier said that he had a conversation with the Finance Minister. Could he tell me, the timeline between May and mid-July of

[ Page 2808 ]

the cabinet meeting, what kind of discussions were going on?

The Chair: Again, I will remind the members that Standing Order 61 clearly provides that debate in Committee of Supply must be strictly relevant to the item or vote under consideration, and debate will not be allowed to canvass details associated with other ministries.

Hon. G. Campbell: As I mentioned, there were a number of discussions. The Minister of Finance had his initial discussions at the end of May. He reported back on some of his progress to me as we went through that. The decision was made by the cabinet, and very quickly after the cabinet made that decision, it was made known to the public.

I think what's really important is that the public does know, and we identified at the time, that we felt that we were acting to keep the economy strong, to actually make it stronger as we went forward, to reduce our marginal effective tax rates in British Columbia.

That would encourage job creation so that we could come out of this economic downturn as a place where investment would be attracted, where jobs would be created and where we would generate the resources necessary to support our public services through what I think is unquestionably one of the most challenging economic times we've faced in the province in almost 30 years.

C. James: Madam Chair, thank you for your cautions. I appreciate them, and that's why I'm staying focused on the Premier and the Premier's office — which is part of these estimates — and what the Premier was involved in around the HST, what discussions were being had and what staff were involved in the HST, which is directly related to the Premier's office.

The Premier mentioned that he had discussions with the Minister of Finance at the end of May around the HST. Did the Premier ask the Finance Minister to talk to the federal government about the HST?

[1530]

[C. Trevena in the chair.]

Hon. G. Campbell: Let me read from the Ministry of Finance estimates that concluded a couple of days ago, hon. Chair. The opposition Finance critic asked the Finance Minister: "And the minister then initiated that discussion post-election — so beginning in this fiscal year in May, at the end of May 2009. Is that the minister's position?"

Minister of Finance: "The very first indication that anyone in the federal government would have had that British Columbia was reconsidering its previous position on HST was a comment I made to the federal Finance Minister during a break in the deliberations of the Finance ministers' meeting that was held in Meech Lake at the end of May. It was only subsequent to that that there were discussions that commenced at the officials level."

C. James: Just to come back to the Premier, I understand the conversations the Finance Minister has said that he's had with the federal government, and he mentioned the end of May date. But I just come back, again, to the Premier and the Premier's office and how they were involved in this decision to ask the Premier whether he asked his Finance Minister to have those discussions with the federal government.

Hon. G. Campbell: As I mentioned during our discussions yesterday, I had asked our Minister of Finance to look at ways that we could meet our budget projections of a $495 million deficit. Our deputy ministers were examining all of the options that were available to them.

The Minister of Finance raised that issue with regard to the federal minister. As he was going to the federal ministry, he informed me that he thought that would be a responsible thing to do. I said: "Fine. You're going to the Finance Ministry. Find out what's taken place with regard to the negotiations between the federal government and Ontario."

C. James: I want to make sure that I have the Premier's dates and times accurate. So the Premier is saying that he did have a conversation with the Finance Minister before the end of May about the HST as one of the options to address the deficit issue.

Hon. G. Campbell: There were many, many options that were considered, but one of the things that the Finance Minister felt was important was that he could canvass the situation with regard to Ontario. He felt that in light of the situation we had, we were going to be at a significant competitive disadvantage with regard to Ontario as we came out of this economic downturn. I said: "Feel free to ask what's taken place with regard to that."

In no way was a decision made. In no way was there any kind of detailed discussion. The point was that yes, find out what they're reaching in terms of an agreement between the federal government and Ontario and see whether or not that would apply to British Columbia.

C. James: So the Premier is saying that the HST was on the table for discussion before the end of May. The Finance Minister went to Ottawa, had the discussion at Meech Lake, as he said, to have the discussion around the HST.

Could the Premier tell me when that discussion occurred between him and his Finance Minister before the meeting where the Finance Minister discussed this with the federal government?

[1535]

[ Page 2809 ]

Hon. G. Campbell: Again, let me reiterate that. The Minister of Finance, as he mentioned during his estimates this week, informed the federal government, through the Minister of Finance, that British Columbia was reconsidering its previous opposition to the HST. It was a comment he made to the federal minister during a break. Only when that notification had been made were our officials in a position where they could even start to discuss it.

We were considering that among many, many other things. It was a reconsideration; it wasn't a decision. It wasn't: yes, we're going to do it. It was: what's the status in terms of the situation with Ontario, and how does that apply to the concerns that we've had with regard to flexibility, etc.? We couldn't even launch into that discussion, we didn't feel, at the officials level until we'd informed the federal Minister of Finance that that was taking place.

C. James: Again, just because the Premier has said that he had discussions before the Finance Minister went off to that meeting to discuss a range of options to deal with the $495 million deficit…. The Premier has stated that here. He said he discussed a range of options. He said he included the HST as part of that range of options. Could the Premier just clarify that with me? He's shaking his head, so I just want to make sure I've got that correct.

The Premier did say earlier that he had discussed a range of options. Was the HST part of the discussion of that range of options with the Finance Minister before he went off at the end of May, and what was the date that those discussions occurred with the Finance Minister?

The Chair: I would like to remind the member that much of this has been canvassed in debate yesterday and that the member is becoming repetitious in her argument and to bear this in mind when continuing the questioning.

Hon. G. Campbell: If I can clarify, if there was any confusion, I was referring back to yesterday. This was before I had even thought about the HST as being a potential solution. I said to our officials, when I had the report from our officials on May 14: "Look at how we can meet our financial objectives that we set in the February budget. Yes, this is challenging, but we want to try and meet our budget projections of a $495 million deficit." That was an important initiative.

At the end of May, prior to the Minister of Finance going to what was a scheduled Finance ministers' meeting, he said that he thought that we should be reconsidering our position with regard to HST. He mentioned that, as he said during his estimates, to the federal Minister of Finance during a break in the deliberations of the Finance ministers' meeting that was held at Meech Lake at the end of May.

[1540]

Only subsequent to that did we start to see what the federal arrangements were with the province of Ontario and how they might have direct impact on it. He did say to me, "I think that we should at least consider this," and I said: "Well, find out what's going on, and then we'll decide whether we're going to really consider it or not. But if we don't have the facts, we won't be able to consider it."

C. James: Just continuing on the HST as we did yesterday. We canvassed the budget. We canvassed the May 14 budget meeting. We're now specifically going into the HST — issues around the HST and the Premier's involvement and the Premier's office's involvement around the HST.

As the Premier has said, he had a discussion around options with the Finance Minister before the end of May. The announcement, as we know, around the HST did not come out until July 23. I would ask the Premier what kind of discussions were going on then, in those 53 days. And why did the Premier wait for those 53 days before we saw the announcement come out from the Premier around the HST?

Hon. G. Campbell: Again, in looking at how this took place, I think it was important for us to know what was being done between the federal government and Ontario. It was important for us to know what was possible. It was important for us to know what the framework was.

This was a very deliberative process. It took a significant amount of time. As I mentioned earlier, we made the cabinet decision in the middle of July. There's a whole range of issues that you have to consider as you do these sorts of things. The first thing is you have to find out whether or not the agreement between the federal government and Ontario was in any way applicable to British Columbia, what position that would put us in.

We had a number of decisions to make. These were cabinet decisions. They were led by the Minister of Finance. He reported to the cabinet, and the cabinet had many deliberations on it with regard to the pros and cons, the pluses and the minuses, of making a change of this nature.

[1545]

C. James: The Premier mentions the Ontario agreement. Just a reminder that the Ontario agreement was in place in March, and I would imagine that there would have been information from Finance officials.

But just to go back and take a look at the analysis, the Premier said there were a number of things that it was important to know as they came to the agreement. I do have to point out that I also believe it was important that the public had a right to know that this was a critical issue coming forward.

[ Page 2810 ]

It's very clear. In taking on a major tax change such as this, you would imagine that there would be extensive analysis done, extensive reviews done. The Premier certainly, who is known for getting involved in policy issues, would have looked at the pros and cons, would have looked at the studies and the analysis to back up the decision to take a look at imposing the HST on the province.

I'd like to ask the Premier what kind of analysis he used and was given to be able to come forward with the HST on July 23.

Hon. G. Campbell: Let me refer again to the estimates of Finance, the committee that concluded this week. The Finance critic for the opposition asked:

"Is the minister saying that from January, when Mr. McGuinty first publicly said that, until the end of May, after the election, he took no steps to begin to analyze or formulate a position on behalf of the British Columbia government?"

The Minister of Finance answers:

"Over the years that HST has been encouraged in Canada, the province of British Columbia — certainly in this government — has looked at it in advance of every budget. It's certainly one of the subjects that comes up, and the decision was made that we would not pursue the harmonized sales tax for a variety of reasons which we've discussed publicly.

"As I've mentioned to the member, I was not aware of the consultation process that the Ontario government had initiated. It's actually interesting. I've gone back and done a search of all of the B.C. news media outlets, and there's absolutely no reference in any British Columbia news media of that consultation process. Quite frankly, I'm not a regular reader of the Toronto Star , and I don't intend to become one."

That's a little harsh.

"In terms of the British Columbia media that I read on a regular basis and watch and listen to, there was absolutely no discussion of that consultation. As far as ministry officials were concerned, they knew the position we as a government had taken when we had previously been encouraged to look at the HST was that we were not going to go down that road. That was the policy decision that stood until such time as we reopened that consideration in the middle of May."

C. James: I'd just like to read goal No. 5 from the Office of the Premier, the Premier's service plan update. Goal No. 5 reads: "Cabinet and cabinet committees are able to make timely and well-informed decisions." The objective 5.1 says that cabinet and its committees are supported with timely and effective advice.

One of the strategies of the Premier in goal No. 5 is to support cabinet committees by ensuring they have "appropriate advice on key policy, program and legislative initiatives," including an ability to measure the success of these initiatives.

I'd like to ask the Premier what new analysis he or his office did to meet goal No. 5 as identified here in his service plan. What new analysis was done from the time period after the election until the Premier signed off at that cabinet meeting on the HST?

[1550]

Hon. G. Campbell: I think that actually in hearing the question, it's clear that analysis was done. It was done in the Ministry of Finance, and again, it was fully canvassed in the Finance estimates earlier this week.

There was also a timely decision made. As we said at the time, we had to make the decision rapidly, or we felt we were going to lose the window of opportunity. We would have been put at a competitive and economic disadvantage in British Columbia vis-à-vis Ontario, and we did not want to be put in a disadvantageous position.

We wanted to be put in a stronger economic position. We wanted to be put in a competitive position that would encourage investment and, through that investment encouragement, would encourage the creation of new jobs in the province.

C. James: Just to focus on the Premier and the Premier's office. Did the Premier direct the Finance Minister and the Finance Ministry to prepare information, as his goal No. 5 says in his service plan, and to direct information and analysis on the new information that would have come in to make the government change their mind on the HST?

Hon. G. Campbell: What I have been very clear about and what the government is very clear about is that we want our economy to be strengthened as we go through this time so that when we come out, we'll be a stronger economy as we go forward.

It is the Finance Ministry and the professionals in the Finance Ministry that carry out the analysis. I expect that to be done, and it doesn't require a direction. The direction is to come forward with initiatives, policies and tax regimes or tax programs that actually will allow us to have a stronger economy, will encourage investment and will encourage job creation.

Those are the kinds of directions you give to the minister. The minister then has an obligation and responsibility to look at the opportunities, look at the various options that they may have, analyze those, and come back and make recommendations to cabinet. Cabinet considers those recommendations and makes decisions.

[1555]

C. James: Maybe I need to get a bit more specific for the Premier. Again, related to his goal in his office, which is to ensure that there's timely information, to ensure that the committees have key policy program advice on directions that they're going forward, did the Premier instruct the Finance Minister or the Finance Ministry staff to do an analysis around the impact of the HST on, for example, the restaurant industry?

Hon. G. Campbell: If I can repeat myself, the Finance Minister and the Finance Ministry and the professionals in the Finance Ministry are required to provide full

[ Page 2811 ]

analysis. I am not about to discuss all of the analysis that was received by cabinet. I can tell you this was canvassed in the Finance Ministry's estimates. Again, I believe that we had timely advice, and we acted on that timely advice and analysis brought forward by the Finance Ministry as canvassed in the Finance Ministry's estimates.

C. James: So the Premier is saying that analysis was done on the impact of the HST on the restaurant industry?

Hon. G. Campbell: I do not intend to get into a discussion of the details of analysis that was provided to cabinet by Finance Ministry officials. I think that would be a breach of cabinet confidentiality.

C. James: Then in a general question to the Premier, did the Premier's office direct any analysis to be done on the impact of the HST on any of the industries in British Columbia?

Hon. G. Campbell: To repeat myself, the Finance Ministry and the Finance Minister responsible for carrying out that analysis…. That analysis of the impacts of these decisions on our broad economy was made, and the cabinet made a decision.

C. James: The Premier says analysis was done. The Premier will not tell us what analysis was done. The Premier won't say whether there was analysis done on the impact of the HST on particular industries or particular areas that will be negatively impacted.

My question to the Premier is: does he feel that the public has a right to see that analysis around one of the most regressive taxes that's going to be introduced in B.C.'s history?

[1600]

Hon. G. Campbell: Again, there is substantial information available to the public on the website. The Minister of Finance has asked for input from people about any mitigation measures that they feel should be undertaken.

Let me refer again to the Finance Ministry estimates of this week, where the minister pointed out that "I think this actually goes back to the start of our discussions two hours ago" and that according to most of the leading economists in Canada, this is "the single biggest thing that the province can do to stimulate the economy and create jobs in British Columbia" and that the more we can do to "stimulate the economy, create jobs, make sure people are working," it will provide more disposable income that people can use for "the occasional restaurant meal out."

It is important to note that the tax credit that has been announced will be in place with regard to the HST next July. In fact, the HST will be less regressive than the PST. The HST will be more transparent than the PST.

[1605]

The HST will provide for added benefits in businesses like construction, manufacturing, transportation, forestry. It provides for $150 million in savings for compliance costs. It provides an additional $30 million in administrative savings for government that can go back to other services.

There is a plethora of information that is available on the website that people can access. It would be a breach of cabinet confidentiality for me to suggest beyond what we've already put out, but I'm sure if the opposition believes that there's something that's been withheld, they can access it through freedom of information.

The Chair: I'd again like to remind the member, while the Chair gives considerable latitude, to keep the questions relevant to Vote 10, the Premier's estimates.

C. James: Hon. Chair, I appreciate the caution, and that's why I'm talking about the Premier's office, the Premier's staff and work done by the Premier related to one of his key goals, which is the issue of the HST.

What I heard from the Premier is that we can go to the website and find out information. But the Premier left out a big piece of information, which is: there was not specific analysis on the website about specific industries and the impact of the HST.

I would certainly imagine that any government that's taking on a major initiative like the HST — a major tax change in our province that has been acknowledged as a major tax change in our province — would do an analysis of the impact of that tax on individual areas: public service, consumers, individual industries.

The Premier has mentioned a list, and he went through a list of individual industries that he said had spoken out, and that's what the government based its information on. But I'd like to remind the Premier that there are a number of industries that he didn't mention that, in fact, have raised concerns. If the Premier would just take a moment, I'll just read a few of those.

Ian Tostenson, the president of the restaurant association, predicts the HST will cost the average consumer between a thousand and $1,800 a year and that the restaurant industry will lose $750 million in annual sales, or almost $50,000 for an average restaurant, because British Columbians will eat out less.

On October 20 the Council of Tourism Associations of British Columbia, or COTA, also expressed their concerns. They found that the implementation of the tax could cost the tourism industry up to 5,174 direct jobs and over 10,000 indirect jobs and may cause a drop of $545 million in visitors.

One area that COTA points out particularly hard hit is rural British Columbia and the whole area of the ski industry, which again, we know is going to have an impact.

Another area that the Premier didn't mention in his list is the whole issue of homebuying.

[ Page 2812 ]

I've mentioned a number of different industries and a number of different areas that will be impacted. So I'd just like to ask the Premier in a general sense, based on his goal, which is to make sure that cabinet has timely information: did the Premier, or did the Premier's staff in his office, put together any kind of analysis? Did he feel it was important to put together any kind of analysis on individual industries or areas in British Columbia that would be impacted by the HST?

[1610]

Hon. G. Campbell: Again to repeat myself, the analysis was carried out by Finance Ministry officials. That analysis is clear — that this has an enormous benefit on our overall economy. It is an analysis that is reiterated and endorsed by groups like the Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters, the Canada West Foundation, the B.C. Road Builders and Heavy Construction Association, the Retail Council of British Columbia, the mining council of British Columbia, the Institute of Chartered Accountants of British Columbia.

A fulsome and complete analysis was done on the benefits for our economy. It is one part of our tax system in the province of British Columbia, which is one of the most competitive in the country. We were clear that we wanted to maintain that competitive edge. We do have the lowest personal income taxes in Canada. We have been able to eliminate taxes for 325,000 British Columbians, with the personal exemption.

Already we see the small business taxes by 2012 are going to be down to zero, which will be, obviously, the lowest in Canada. We're reducing our corporate tax rates by 39 percent by 2011.

I think that at the end of the day, one of the things that's important to note is that, actually, with the adoption of the HST, we will have a less regressive tax than the current provincial sales tax; we will have a more transparent tax than the current sales tax; we will have $150 million savings in terms of compliance costs to small businesses and businesses across the province; and we will have an environment that actually encourages investment, encourages job creation and will strengthen the overall economy.

Regardless of the sector of the economy that you're in, a strong economy helps all of the economy. That does not mean there are not changes that will have to take place, but I can tell you, hon. Chair, that I think it's clear. I think we've been very explicit with regard to that. The information is available.

I know that a number of times people decide that their analysis will include not looking at any of the embedded tax credits that they will get as a result of adapting the HST. There is ongoing work that's taking place with regard to this, to how we can mitigate any of those challenges. As we do that work, we will move towards the budget, the 2010-11 budget and the adoption of the HST, if this Legislature approves that change in time for July of 2010.

C. James: What I've heard from the Premier is that the analysis that he used and the analysis they used in the 53 days between the time of the HST being talked about and the HST being implemented are basically those people who agreed with the government's direction, the position they wanted to take. In fact, they aren't releasing any information around any analysis that was done on industries that may be negatively impacted or consumers that may be negatively impacted.

I'd just like to read a quote to the Premier from his own Progress Board. This is a progress board that the Premier appointed. It's the Premier's Progress Board, and the report specifically identifies a key flaw in the HST. I'm quoting the Progress Board report here. It says: "A highly visible shift of the tax burden from businesses to consumers."

My question is to the Premier. Did he pay attention to the Progress Board report when they warned that the HST is, in fact, a highly visible shift of the tax burden from businesses to consumers?

The Chair: I'd like to remind members that we are talking about Vote 10 and to ensure that the questions are directed to Vote 10 and not questions which could be better dealt with in other estimates.

[1615]

Hon. G. Campbell: Hon. Chair, as you remind us, this was thoroughly canvassed in the estimates for the Ministry of Finance.

C. James: I'm not surprised that we continue on and that the Premier isn't interested in exploring the issue of the HST. I understand it's an uncomfortable issue for this government. I can understand why they wouldn't want to have discussions.

I also want to remind the Premier that, in fact, the HST is, as he described, one of the most important issues that he's bringing forward in his government. The Premier, through the Premier's office, has been involved directly in the issue of the HST.

I just want to talk a little bit about the flexibility as the Premier called it, and the Premier referred to that. He talked about the fact that the PST and the HST make a difference when it comes to flexibility for government. I just want to remind the Premier that in a previous budget that came forward, the PST was used by the Premier to be able to talk about his climate change goals. The Premier used the PST to be able to encourage changes in behaviour, to use the PST to remove it from various areas, to assist the Premier when it comes to his climate action agenda and his promises.

We know the HST is going to have an impact, so I'd like to ask the Premier what kind of discussions he and

[ Page 2813 ]

his staff have had around the impact of the HST on the Premier's climate change agenda.

Hon. G. Campbell: Again, I would say to the Leader of the Opposition that this was thoroughly covered in the Finance estimates. Having said that, this action does not preclude us from taking activity in other areas of the economy and other tax initiatives.

This is actually an action that will encourage investment in the province of British Columbia. It will encourage increased productivity. It will encourage companies to invest in their equipment and their plant, because we will, in fact, have one of the lowest levels of effective marginal tax rates. It will encourage companies like Alcan, for example, which is looking at whether or not they can move forward with a major investment in a renewed, modernized smelter in Kitimat that will dramatically reduce greenhouse gas as well as other emissions from that plant.

This actually is a tool that encourages many of the initiatives this government has advocated. We will continue to advocate those initiatives, and as we advocate those initiatives with a strong economy, it will encourage investments in alternative energy. It will encourage investments in new bioenergy. All of those things are going to be critical as we develop a low-carbon economy in this province that will not just be a leader for Canada but will be a leader for the continent.

C. James: Could the Premier tell me what analysis he or his staff did on the HST and the impact on his climate change agenda and his promises?

[1620]

Hon. G. Campbell: I think I answered that question, but I'm actually interested that the Leader of the Opposition is so interested in PST exemptions, which your party voted against.

What I am very clear about is that our party and our government are going to continue to encourage reduction of greenhouse gases. To do that, it's going to require significant additional investment in the existing plant as well as creating the opportunities for new modern plant.

It also is critical, in terms of encouraging private sector investment, that we have a tax regime that is seen to be a positive tax regime that encourages their investment. It will encourage new energy investments. It will encourage bioenergy investments. As I said earlier, it provides substantial productivity gains for our entire economy, including the construction industry, the manufacturing industry, the forest industry, the transportation industry, the mining industry and the small businesses across this province.

All of those businesses will now be in a position where they can actually invest in their future because we have an open, transparent, less regressive tax regime in place as a result of the HST.

C. James: I'm going to move on to talk a little bit about one of the committees that the Premier chairs, but I think it's important…. The Premier used the words "open and accountable," and what we've learned through this

section of estimates is anything but open and accountable.

What we've learned is that the Premier, in fact, had discussions before the end of May with the Finance Minister on the HST, that the public wasn't told about that, that in 53 days — because the announcement on the HST wasn't made until July 23 — the public wasn't told that the HST was on the table.

The Premier says that analysis may or may not have been done, and he's not willing to share it with the public. One of the biggest tax changes in this province's history, and the Premier didn't have analysis done on specific industries, on specific areas — everything from school boards to environmental areas to home-building to restaurants. Huge impacts, and yet the Premier won't share that analysis or didn't ask for that specific analysis to be done — neither he nor his staff.

So I think it's very concerning. I think the public will certainly feel, after this discussion, that they're even more concerned about the lack of transparency, the lack of openness, the lack of thought that went into bringing forward the HST.

Just to explore one of the roles that the Premier does have, which is the chair of a cabinet committee that has been described as functioning as an inner cabinet. That's the agenda and priorities committee. Could the Premier please describe the functions of that committee for us?

[1625]

Hon. G. Campbell: First, let me just say, with regard to the comments from the Leader of the Opposition, that the HST is the single most important thing we can do to encourage the strengthening of our economy in this province. It is more transparent than the current tax regime. It is less regressive than the current tax regime. It will encourage investment. It will encourage productivity. It will encourage competitiveness. It will actually lead to a stronger, cleaner economy for British Columbians.

I think I've said and reiterated on a number of occasions that a full analysis was done by the professionals in our Finance Ministry. Those people have an exceptional record. British Columbia has a triple-A credit rating, recognizing the strength of our Finance Ministry officials and the broad framework of analysis that we've done. In terms of the agenda and priorities committee of cabinet, I think we've been pretty clear about what our priorities are as a government.

We have said that we want to continue to encourage improvements in education. We want to make sure

[ Page 2814 ]

that we encourage expanding educational opportunities. We've said that we believe that we have to continue to pursue a goal of making British Columbia a healthier place for all of us to live. We've identified the importance of the environment and dealing with the challenge of the generation, which happens to be climate change.

We've said that we want to make sure we have sustainable environmental management. We want to care for people who are in the lower end, less able to care for themselves. We want to build an economy that actually supports those important public sector objectives that we have.

The agenda and priorities committee examines how we can encourage a healthy economy and looks at the broad range of issues we may have as government and says: "How do we focus our time, focus our attention and focus our resources to make sure that we accomplish the goals we've set for ourselves as a cabinet and as a government?"

C. James: Could the Premier just tell us how often the agenda and priorities cabinet committee meets and, again, talk about the functions of that committee?

[1630]

Hon. G. Campbell: The agenda and priorities committee meets regularly and as required. It discusses the priorities of government, and it is subject to cabinet confidentiality.

C. James: Could the Premier tell me: how does the Premier's agenda and priorities committee interact with Treasury Board?

Hon. G. Campbell: The agenda and priorities committee is a committee of cabinet and subject to cabinet confidentiality. The Treasury Board is a committee of cabinet and subject to confidentiality. I don't have, off the top of my head, the memberships of the two committees, but they have been made public.

C. James: I understand the confidentiality issues, as the Premier has outlined, but I'm just asking about the interaction of the committees. How do the committees interact with each other? Do they have regular, scheduled meetings and agendas together? How is the Premier's staff involved in setting the agendas of those committees, including the agenda and priorities committee?

Hon. G. Campbell: The Treasury Board and the agenda and priorities committee do not meet in concert. They report through to cabinet. Their agendas are coordinated by the cabinet operations and the cabinet secretary.

C. James: Are any of the Premier's staff on that committee?

Hon. G. Campbell: The cabinet members are on the committee, and they're identified in the public information.

C. James: Does the Premier's chief of staff attend the agenda and priorities committee with the Premier?

Hon. G. Campbell: Yes, my chief of staff often attends a cabinet committee meeting as a staff member. Appropriate staff are always asked and invited to be part of the cabinet deliberations.

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C. James: Just to come back to the interaction between Treasury Board and the agenda and priorities committee. The Finance Minister isn't part of the agenda and priorities committee, so I'm presuming that economic information comes to the agenda and priorities committee. I would assume that as part of their role of setting agenda and priorities, they receive fiscal information.

I wonder if the Premier could tell us, then, who from Treasury Board reports to the agenda and priorities committee that the Premier chairs.

Hon. G. Campbell: Ministers regularly attend cabinet committees if they have an item on the agenda of that cabinet committee. So the Treasury Board, to give you an idea, just to give you the names, includes the chair, who is the Minister of Finance; the vice-chair, who is the Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure; the member for Surrey-Panorama; the member for Nanaimo-Parksville, I think it's called; the Minister of Healthy Living and Sport; the Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources; and the Minister of Agriculture and Lands.

The Treasury Board reports out to cabinet. Cabinet ministers and their officials often attend Treasury Board. That's in fact how items are dealt with on the agenda.

Similarly, with the agenda and priorities committee, the members include myself as the chair, the Minister of Aboriginal Reconciliation, the Minister of Housing and Social Development, the Attorney General, the Minister of Health Services, the Minister of Education and the member for West Vancouver–Sea to Sky. That's the committee makeup.

Ministers and their officials could come, if there was an appropriate item on an agenda, to attend and make recommendations, to ask for advice from either of those committees. Those committees then report out to cabinet.

C. James: Then just to talk in general terms — I recognize the confidentiality issues the Premier has raised: could the Premier tell me how these two bodies, Treasury Board and the agenda and priorities committee, which I'm presuming sets agendas and priorities for government, interact in preparation for the budget?

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Hon. G. Campbell: Again, so that I can be clear, there are these two particular cabinet committees. The coordinating, the decision-making body of government is cabinet. Cabinet coordinates those things. The budget is prepared by the Treasury Board. It is submitted to cabinet. Cabinet makes the decisions with regard to the budget at the end of the day, so I think it's important for us to recognize that the overall coordinating, decision-making body of all of government is the cabinet.

C. James: I recognize that. I think it's just important for the public to know that the Premier chairs the agenda and priorities cabinet committee and what role it plays in relationship to the budget, in relationship to revenue, in relationship to funding for a program.

Just to ask the Premier specifically, then: could the Premier describe the process under his government where funding for a program gets approved and specifically what role the agenda and priorities committee, chaired by the Premier, plays in that?

Hon. G. Campbell: The development of the budget is a responsibility of the Treasury Board. The Treasury Board reports to cabinet. Cabinet makes the final decision.

C. James: Again, just so I'm clear. The Premier is saying that the agenda and priorities cabinet committee that he chairs plays no role in determining program spending?

Hon. G. Campbell: I do think this is important. The budget is established by Treasury Board. Agenda and priorities sets the priorities for government. Those issues can come forward that…. Should we put time, effort and energy into those issues, or should they be other issues?

As I've mentioned earlier, there are a number of major initiatives we've undertaken as government, including building a new relationship with first nations, dealing with the challenges of climate change, strengthening our economy. There's a whole plethora of things that you have to deal with, and the cabinet committee tries to deal with those things and organize them. But the decisions with regard to the budget are made by the cabinet, with the advice of the Treasury Board.

C. James: We'll all remember…. I want to talk a little bit about the Premier's economic statement — and it will relate to the agenda and priorities committee — which he made in October 2008. It was with regard to discretionary spending cuts.

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I'll just quote the Premier from that statement:

"We will act immediately to rein in avoidable government spending. It was a lot of work to make B.C. a deficit-free zone, and we aim to keep it that way. We'll continue to live within our means and within the taxpayers' ability to pay. We will not start digging ourselves back into a hole….

"We will re-evaluate our spending to protect our priorities and will focus on scaling back unbudgeted increases in spending. Government is no different than families. We can afford to do what we must, even in these times, but we won't be able to afford everything we'd like right now."

That was the Premier's economic statement back in October.

He vowed that he was going to start reining in government spending. Could the Premier please tell us when that plan was actually implemented?

Hon. G. Campbell: The initiative to rein in avoidable spending commenced right away, following the October statement, and in fact, it is ongoing. We understood that we had to take a number of initiatives that would result in difficult decisions. I identified a number of those yesterday, but I'm glad to do it again today if the leader would like me to highlight those.

C. James: The directive was implemented immediately, the Premier says. Press reports state that on the reserve of unfunded money after the discretionary freeze was put in place, there were two paths that ministers could take or bureaucrats could take to be able to deal with unfreezing that money after the Premier's directive came out.

According to the press, it said that bureaucrats could appeal to the deputy ministers' committee for those funds and that ministers could appeal to the Premier's agenda and priorities committee. Given that that's the Premier's committee and that he chairs that committee, could the Premier please describe for us how the discretionary spending review and the approval process worked during this time period?

The Chair: Again, I'd like to remind the member that we are talking about Vote 10, which is the 2009-10 estimates.

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Hon. G. Campbell: I can't speak to the media reports, but I can reiterate that all financial framework decisions are made by the Ministry of Finance. The initiatives undertaken around the restrictive spending review started immediately following the October statement. They continued towards February. In fact, they were one of the reasons that we were able to bring in a surplus that was in excess of what was budgeted for the 2008 year, in spite of the economic challenges. They were identified as an ongoing program in the February budget, and indeed, they're ongoing as a result of the September budget as well.

In terms of setting a fiscal framework, that is a responsibility…. It's a decision of cabinet, but the recommendations are made by Treasury Board. Once that framework has been set, it may well be that a minister comes and discusses the various choices they have to make within the

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ministry within that fiscal framework to meet the government's priorities.

C. James: As we know, there have been a number of decisions that had to be made from the time of the election until now — a number of decisions around spending, a number of decisions around priorities. The Premier has said that himself — that when it comes to the budget, a number of difficult decisions had to be made.

As the Premier has described, his agenda and priorities committee, the committee that he chairs…. Ministers come to that committee and have discussions around priorities and whether those priorities are going forward. Could the Premier tell me: in some of the discussions that have occurred from the election until now…?

I'll give a specific example to the Premier. For example, the reductions that have been made to