Manitoba Hansard — 11 October 2018 (Sitting 76B, 41st Legislature, 3rd Session)

41-3-76b

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Third Session – Forty-First Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Myrna Driedger Speaker Vol. LXXI No. 76B - 1:30 p.m., Thursday, October 11, 2018 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Forty-First Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALLUM, James Fort Garry-Riverview NDP ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley NDP BINDLE, Kelly Thompson PC CLARKE, Eileen, Hon. Agassiz PC COX, Cathy, Hon. River East PC CULLEN, Cliff, Hon. Spruce Woods PC CURRY, Nic Kildonan PC DRIEDGER, Myrna, Hon. Charleswood PC EICHLER, Ralph, Hon. Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne Lac du Bonnet PC FIELDING, Scott, Hon. Kirkfield Park PC FLETCHER, Steven, Hon. Assiniboia Man. FONTAINE, Nahanni St. Johns NDP FRIESEN, Cameron, Hon. Morden-Winkler PC GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib.

GOERTZEN, Kelvin, Hon. Steinbach PC GRAYDON, Clifford Emerson PC GUILLEMARD, Sarah Fort Richmond PC HELWER, Reg Brandon West PC ISLEIFSON, Len Brandon East PC JOHNSON, Derek Interlake PC JOHNSTON, Scott St. James PC KINEW, Wab Fort Rouge NDP KLASSEN, Judy Kewatinook Lib. LAGASSÉ, Bob Dawson Trail PC LAGIMODIERE, Alan Selkirk PC LAMONT, Dougald St. Boniface Lib. LAMOUREUX, Cindy Burrows Lib. LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas NDP LINDSEY, Tom Flin Flon NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Flor Logan NDP MARCELINO, Ted Tyndall Park NDP MARTIN, Shannon Morris PC MAYER, Colleen, Hon. St.

Vital PC MICHALESKI, Brad Dauphin PC MICKLEFIELD, Andrew Rossmere PC MORLEY-LECOMTE, Janice Seine River PC NESBITT, Greg Riding Mountain PC PALLISTER, Brian, Hon. Fort Whyte PC PEDERSEN, Blaine, Hon. Midland PC PIWNIUK, Doyle Arthur-Virden PC REYES, Jon St. Norbert PC SARAN, Mohinder The Maples Ind. SCHULER, Ron, Hon. St. Paul PC SMITH, Andrew Southdale PC SMITH, Bernadette Point Douglas NDP SMOOK, Dennis La Verendrye PC SQUIRES, Rochelle, Hon. Riel PC STEFANSON, Heather, Hon. Tuxedo PC SWAN, Andrew Minto NDP TEITSMA, James Radisson PC WHARTON, Jeff, Hon.

Gimli PC WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WISHART, Ian Portage la Prairie PC WOWCHUK, Rick Swan River PC YAKIMOSKI, Blair Transcona PC

3577 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Thursday, October 11, 2018 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Madam Speaker: Good afternoon, everybody. Please be seated. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS Madam Speaker: Introduction of bills? Committee reports? TABLING OF REPORTS Hon.

Cliff Cullen (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I'm pleased to table the follow reports for the Department of Justice: the Annual Report for Victim Services Complaints for the fiscal year 2017-18; Annual Report for the Manitoba Law Reform Commission for the fiscal year 2017 -18; Annual Report for the Li quor and Gaming Authority of Manitoba for the fiscal year 2017- 18; Annual Report for the Manitoba Residential Tenancies Commission for the fiscal year 2017- 18; Annual Report for the Automobile Injury Compensation Appeal Commission for the fiscal year 2017 -18; Annual Report for the Vital Statistics Agency for the fiscal year 2017-18; the Annual Report for the Public Guardian and Trustee of Manitoba for the fiscal year 2017-18; and the Report and Recommendations of the Judicial Compensation Committee.

Hon. Jeff Wharton (Minister of Municipal Relations): I'm pleased to rise in the House today to table Manitoba Water Services Board Annual Report, 2017- 2018, and Municipal Board Annual Report, 2017. Hon. Ralph Eichler (Minister of Agriculture): Madam Speaker , I'm pleased to rise today in the Assembly and table Manitoba Agricultural Services Corporation 2017-2018 Annual Report. Madam Speaker: Any further tablings?

MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS Madam Speaker: The honourable Minister for the Status of Women –and I would indicate that the required 90 minutes notice prior to routine proceedings was provided in accordance with rule 26(2). Would the honourable minister please proceed with her statement. International Day of the Girl Hon. Rochelle Squires (Minister responsible for the Status of Women): Today we celebrate a momentous occasion for girls across the globe: the International Day of the Girl. In 2012, the United Nations declared October 11th as the International Day of the Girl.

And the purpose of this day is to highlight the role girls play as powerful voices of change in their families, their communities and their nations. I would ask all my colleagues here today to reflect on the important contribution girls have made to their families, their communities and to our province, and to consider these contributions in light of the many challenges facing young women and girls today.

Madam Speaker, it is critically important to continue opening doors for girls because we know that our girls are grow ing up in environments that can have detrimental effects on their body image, their mental health and their self -esteem. We see girls dropping out of high school sports, not wanting to pursue activities and not wanting to speak up in class. While there are some who believe the glass ceiling has been shattered, the reality is is that we still have a long way to go.

I ask my colleagues to take this day to commit to continuing to support girls, help them achieve their dreams and participate fully in their communities and societies. Earlier today, the Manitoba women's advisory chair, Ms. Barbara Bowes, and I held an event in partnership with the Winnipeg fire and paramedic services at four fire stations across our city. This event was an introduction for girls in grade 6 to learn about firefighting and paramedic services. They learned about the different ways one can become a firefighter and a paramedic, and perhaps found a new passion for an exciting future career path.

We know that education is the key for gi rls achieving economic security later in life. I enjoyed spending time with these girls this morning and loved seeing them realize their infinite possibilities.

3578 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 11, 2018 Let us work together to support more women firefighters, paramedics, computer coders, CEOs, electricians, scientists, elected officials, astronauts, athletes, welders and leading professionals in every sector and industry. Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. Mrs. Bernadette Smith (Point Douglas): Success is achieved very differently for boys and girls. For girls to succeed, they must endure obstacles such as systemic discrimination, marginalization and harassment. Boys encounter far fewer obstacles or barriers.

Today, women across the globe are at a disadvantage to their male counterparts, but International Day of the Girl is a promise that our future will be different. Today, we celebrate the achievements of Manitoba's girls and we commit to supporting them as they break down barriers to reach their full potentials. We cannot be our best society if half our population is being undervalued, underrepresented and underutilized. Globally, girls confront adversities that impede upon their education, prevent them from receiving skills training and make it difficult for them to enter the workforce.

Twenty-five per cent of young people around the world, the majority of them girls, are neither employed nor in school or receiving training. This year alone, 12 million girls under the age of 18 will be married, while 21 million girls under the age of 20 will become pregnant in developing countries. The global gender gap is also growing in terms of technology. Girls have less access to information and communication resources than boys do, making it more difficult to compete in the ever -increasing digital world.

Data from the #MeToo movement has also made public what women have known for a long time, which is that sexual harassment is prevalent and it is dangerous. Women and girls can no longer be expected to tolerate such inequality, and as legislators and as elected officials, we need to ensure that we–they won't have to. When we promote the education, safety and health of girls, we are helping to create a new reality and a new future where there is 'substanstitive' equality– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. Ms.

Cindy Lamoureux (Burrows): It is good to stand today on International Day of the Girl, and the theme of this year's celebration is With Her: A Skilled Girl Force. This will mark the beginning of a year-long effort to work towa rds employability of girls around the world. In Manitoba, 61 per cent of women aged 25 to 64 hold some form of post -secondary education compared to 54 per cent of men. Yet, women around the world and right here in Manitoba are less likely to be employed f ull time, more likely to earn less than their male peers and are underrepresented in the trades and leadership roles.

Madam Speaker, even here in these Chambers, women only make up 25 per cent of MLAs. This is why we need to continue working hard, and UNICEF has some ideas of how we can support a skilled girl force. Governments should invest in improving the quality, relevance and gender responsiveness of teaching and learning. This includes building transferable skills such as problem solving, confidence building, communication and digital literacy.

Schools and the private sector should work together to prepare girls for the workforce through mentoring, job shadowing and apprenticeships that give girls hands -on learning and role models. Parents, teachers, and girls and boys themselves, should challenge the norms and beliefs that prevent girls from having the same opportunities as boys. Last but not least, girls should keep pursuing their dreams and calling out injustice whenever they encounter it. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: Is the member for Assiniboi a seeking to leave to speak to the statement? Hon.

Steven Fletcher (Assiniboia): Yes, I'm seeking leave. Madam Speaker: Does the member have leave to respond to the ministerial statement? [Agreed] * (13:40) Mr. Fletcher: The International Day of the G irl needs to be embraced by all members of society regardless of gender. Women have historically and at present had and do have a rougher time than males. We all are the children of mothers. We have nieces, sisters, neighbours, friends. We all want equality and maximization of the human potential.

October 11, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3579 Yesterday, we had some statements about some phenomenal women, Canadian women. I'd like to highlight a few more. Donna Strickland: j ust a couple weeks ago, Dr. Strickland became only the third woman in the history of the Nobel Prize to win it, or receive it, in physics–a remarkable feat, Madam Speaker. In 1989, there was a terrible massacre of female engineering students in Montreal, École Polytechnique. The following year, I entered engineering. There were virtually no women in that class. When I graduated, half my discipline were women.

My sister's a female engineer. Role models matter. We need to all support International Women's Day and the women in our lives and the women who aren't in our lives. We need to support everyone. Madam Speaker, I'd like to thank– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. Hon. Heather Stefanson (Minister of Families): Madam Speaker, I'm wondering if there would be leave of the House to revert back to tabling of reports. Madam Speaker: Is there leave of the House to revert back to tabling of reports? [Agreed] TABLING OF REPORTS (Continued) Hon.

Heather Stefanson (Minister of Families): Madam Speaker, I am pleased to table the 2017 -18 Annual Report for The Accessibility for Manitobans Act. Madam Speaker: Further tablings, then? Hon. Scott Fielding (Minister of Finance): Madam Speaker, I rise today to table the insurance and risk fidelity bonds as

section 20 of The Public Officers Act, being

chapter P230 of the continued consolidation of statutes of Manitoba. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Plumas Pirates Baseball Team Hon. Eileen Clarke (Minister of Indigenous and Northern Relations): Madam Speaker, I rise in the House today to recognize the 75th anniversary of the Plumas Pirates baseball team, one of the eight teams that make up the current Santa Clara Baseball League. In celebration of the team's 75th anniversary, the Pirates hosted a weekend tournament in Plumas this past summer.

It was a reunion for teammates, coaches and spectators, offering an opportunity to reminisce, share stories and play a little ball. The late Ray Walker was very instrumental in bringing the Pirates together to build a strong, competitive team. Walker's efforts proved to be productive and rewarding. In the last 10 years, the Pirates have been pennant winners, league champions, hit provincial playoffs four times, and have been nominated for Ma nitoba Baseball Hall of Fame.

Pirates player Tom Yandeau was inducted into the Manitoba Baseball Hall of Fame, and his son Zac was awarded Rookie of the Year in 2011 and received the MVP awards for 2013, '15, and '16. The Pirates team brings the small ru ral community together at every home game. The local support for this team is outstanding. I want to thank Plumas residents for the all –as well as the sponsors, organizers, volunteers, players and coaches for their efforts to see that the Pirates continue to play ball in Plumas. I am very proud to say that Plumas Pirates have one of the best baseball diamonds in Manitoba.

So, on behalf of the Manitoba Legislature, thank you to the players, coaches and residents for their contributions to the Plumas Pirates baseball team. Madam Speaker, I'd like the House to acknowledge Tom and Zac Yandeau who are visiting here today. Madam Speaker: Further members' statements? Garment Workers from the Philippines Ms. Cindy Lamoureux (Burrows): Madam Speaker, last month my colleague from St. Norbert and the MP for Winnipeg North and myself participated in a celebration in recognizing a very brave group of individuals, often known as the '68 and '69 group of garment workers from the Philippines.

Madam Speaker, these individuals –six of them who are here with us today in the gallery – immigrated to Canada back when most people did not even know that the Philippines existed. They took a risk at a very young age and they sacrificed so much in order to move to a foreign country where accommodations had not yet been made, where there were no guarantees that things would work out. And this was all with the goal of leading a new life for generations to come.

3580 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 11, 2018 Madam Speaker, when these individuals arrived in Canada–and this was not an easy commute by any means–they provided the desperately needed demand of garment workers, which had a huge and positive impact on our economy. Shortly after immigrating, many of them began to sponsor their family members, thei r spouses and their friends, and I believe this is why we have a very healthy and vibrant Filipino community here in Manitoba today. Madam Speaker, I am so grateful for these wonderful people in my life.

They are incredibly brave and have had a huge and significant impact on me personally. In closing, I would like to acknowledge the individuals who have joined us here today: my tita, Fely Inez; Tita Ellen Dimen; Tita Virgie de Jesus; Tita Lydia Schellmana; Tita Nany Generao; and, lastly, Tita Librada Ma rquez and her husband, Tito Ernesto. Thank you for joining us today. Brave the Shave to Conquer Cancer Mr. Reg Helwer (Brandon West): Madam Speaker, last Saturday, I was asked, along with my colleague from Brandon East, to be witnesses at the Brave the Shave to Conquer Cancer world record attempt.

The event was organized by the team at Grim Acres in an attempt to have an individual, Quentin Derhak, shave more than 75 heads in an hour, with all donations in support of the Canadian Cancer Society. Grim Acres is one of Manitoba's largest haunts, this year claiming the No. 9 spot in North America's top 31 haunts. The frights are all in fun and regularly raise funds to fight cancer. Madam Speaker, Quentin really–recently lost his father to cancer, and th e Brave the Shave event had over 80 people registered to have their heads shaved in support of cancer research.

I watched as women with long hair had it cut short to prepare for the shave, and all of their hair was separated and saved to make wigs for canc er survivors. I spoke to many of those registered , who told me their stories of surviving cancer or stories of their loved ones. It is sad to say that everyone I spoke to that day had been touched by cancer in some way. Brian Sutherland served as the emcee and later had his head shaved, as did his wife, organizer extraordinaire Amber Sutherland. I think Brian was the test case for Quentin several times, and I'm not sure how many times he had his head shaved.

Brian spoke about the hope for finding a cure for cancer, but along the way, they are providing hope, healing, love and support in a community of champions. In the space of an hour, Quentin shaved 43 heads, not quite breaking the record, and shaved many more after the hour was up. The community came to gether to raise more than $7,000, and donations are still pouring in. Madam Speaker, thank you to Quentin Derhak and the team at Grim Acres for raising money and awareness for the Canadian Cancer Society.

I suspect we will see another world record attemp t by this group, and we wish them well in their pursuit of that record and the cure for cancer. Madam Speaker: The honourable Minister of Families–or, pardon me –the honourable Minister of Finance. Seniors' and Elders' Month Hon. Scott Fielding (Minister of Finance): Today I would like to recognize the important and valuable role that older persons play in building a strong community. October is recognized as Seniors' and Elders' Month.

Active and connected members of our society–I want to reco gnize the contributions that older people play and demonstrate the benefits of healthy living, enriching lives and listening and sharing their experiences, their knowledge, their wisdom, skills through working, volunteering and caregiving. * (13:50) Our o lder people are an important bridge between the older and newer generations, transferring knowledge, experience and wisdom, Madam Speaker, to help us establish connections with our past while building towards a stronger future. Our government recently committed to investing in the St.

James Civic Centre, an age- friendly place where people of all ages and cultures can meet others, be socially connected and participate in healthy activities benefitting Manitobans now and into the future. To celebrate Senio rs' and Elders ' Month, MLA from St. James , as well as myself –the St. James 55-plus centre and myself are pleased to be hosting the older person's fair at the St. James Civic Centre ,

October 11, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3581 October 18th from 12:30 'til 3, Madam Speaker. There'll be healthy living demonstrations, exhibit booths, a barbeque and opportunities to chat with the healthy age teams. I invite you and all of us to join on October 18th as we celebrate older populations and their continued leadership, Madam Speaker. Poverty Reduction Mr. Ro b Altemeyer (Wolseley): At noon today I was proud to join our leader and my colleague, the MLA from Point Douglas, down at City Hall for a very important rally organized by Make Poverty History.

I was very proud of the organizers and the work that they put in to make that event happen. I was proud of the large and diverse crowd of people who attended to bring their voice to this very important issue, and yet I'm also saddened that these types of events are becoming more and more necessary under the Pallister government as poverty gets worse and not better. We know that poverty is complex. It is multifaceted, but it can also be solved. We know it requires better housing. We know it requires more attention to safety.

We know it requires more attention to child care, access to education and breaking down the systemic barriers such as racism and sexism and homophobia which prevent far too many of our citizens from reaching their full potential here in our province. Now, the backdrop for today's rally is, of course, one of the latest symptoms of poverty manifesting itself in the form of the crystal meth crisis that our province and our country is gripped in right now.

I spoke with multiple front-line service providers who are reporting that on every single day they are having people under the influence of crystal meth walk right into their workplace with incredibly erratic and potentially dangerous behaviour. We have heard recent reports of how medical personnel and security staff at hospitals are unable to protect themselves. The exact same situation is true for the front-line workers doing community work on the front lines with very vulnerable people.

And we have a provincial government which is a year late in e ven announcing a plan–which will probably get rejected the next time the Premier feels he's been insulted–and they are sitting on tens of millions of dollars of federal money dedicated for child care, housing and mental health. When is this government fi nally going to act on poverty? Thank you, Madam Speaker. Introduction of Guests Madam Speaker: Prior to oral questions, we have some guests in the gallery that I would like to introduce to you.

We have seated in the public gallery from Woodlawn School 73 grade 4 students under the direction of Simmy Gandhi, Lisa Martens and Jerilyn Koslowsky, and this group is located in the constituency of the honourable Minister of Education and Training (Mr. Goertzen). On behalf of all members here, we welcome all of you to the Manitoba Legislature. ORAL QUESTIONS Action on Climate Change Amendments to Bill 16 Mr.

Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): You know, Madam Speaker, the environment is everything and climate change is a threat not just to ourselves, but also to the kids in the gallery here today and to the future generations here in Manitoba. It requires all of us to take actions both big and small. Now, the recently released report by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change makes clear that dramatic action is needed and it is needed now. If not, we know what climate change looks like in Manitoba. It means the flooding of the Red River , which will affect the constituents in Morris.

We also know that it'll mean wildfires increasing right across the province. Again, we intend later today at committee to bring amendments to Bill 16 which would put the science first, and just ask that the government agree to put the science on climate change first in their future actions when it comes to the environment. I'd ask the simple question: Will the Premier support amendments to Bill 16 that put the science on climate change first so we can take action to protect all of our children? Hon.

Brian Pallister (Premier): We're saying yes to the battle on climate change, something that for 17 years wasn't tackled by the previous

3582 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 11, 2018 administration under the NDP government, sadly. We're saying yes to taking action on phasing out coal. We're saying yes to finding ways to help Manitoba households consume less energy and spend less so there's more money left for their families and more money left in there –on their kitchen table s for them to find their f inancial freedom. We've established a conservation trust, an historic contribution of $100 million to do environmental projects in this province.

Madam Speaker, we're committed in every way to a real green plan that leaves this province and country cleaner than we found it. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Kinew: Madam Speaker, what the Premier's planning to do with Bill 16 is just window dressing without even having the window at the centre of it. It was a simple question: w ill he accept the science on climate change? He still hasn't answered it. Now, we know that this is going to be a major issue.

Climate change is going to be a major issue for Manitobans not just for the generation her e today, but for future generations in our province. I know the Premier and I, we both have kids. We want them to be here in 2050 when the IPCC says that there are going to be major impacts. God willing, our kids are still here in the 2100. Unfortunately, the experts say that the impact of climate change will be even worse at that time. It's a simple request. We are asking the Premier to take action, but to take action in a meaningful way.

Another amendment that we intend to bring forward here tonight, Ma dam Speaker, is to tie the emissions reduction targets to what the IPCC, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change experts, are recommending. Simple question for the Premier: Will he agree to amendments that tie emission reduction targets in Manitoba to what the experts of the IPCC recommend? Mr. Pallister: I don't think it's at all unfair, Madam Speaker, to point out the NDP had 17 years to take action on climate change and took no action whatsoever.

In fact, according to the Auditor General's anal ysis of the previous government's inaction on this, they were told in 2012, just a few weeks after they tabled their plan, that it couldn't possibly work, and then they didn't table another plan for five years until just before the last election. And the p lan they tabled at that time would've required every gas- and diesel-using vehicle in the province to come off the roads in order for the targets to be achieved. That's not taking action. We're taking action, Madam Speaker, on many, many fronts.

And we've –our plan, quite frankly, has been acknowledged by experts across the country, outside of Manitoba and inside Manitoba, as the best plan put forward, including the federal Environment Minister and the Prime Minister, who have observed that Manitoba's plan is the best plan for cleaning up our environment, our air, our soil, our water, of any plan any province has put together. I'd encourage the member to get behind such a plan, because we are going to be enacting it. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr.

Kinew: That was a completely disingenuous answer, Madam Speaker. The Premier pulled a complete one -hundred-and-eighty-degree reversal since those comments were made by the federal politicians. Now, we know that there is a scientific consensus that global warming is real and that it is man-made. There is also an economic consensus that carbon pricing is an effective mechanism to help combat that changing climate. That consensus is also agreed to by the most recent N obel Prize winner on economics–[interjection]–Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: Order. Mr.

Kinew: Now, we know that the Premier has pulled a reversal on this issue, but I would ask him to reconsider again. Carbon pricing is an important part of the solution. It's not going to do everything, but it should be part of an action plan to address global warming. I would ask the Premier again–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: –because we're going to bring amendments to this effect tonight: Will he recommit to carbon pricing even if it involves recommitting to the $25-a-ton target that he's been championing for the last two years? Mr.

Pallister: Well, sadly, Madam Speaker, the member makes the mistake that the federal

October 11, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3583 government is making in respect of climate change and the fight to make sure that we address the causes of it, and he makes that mistake again today. He focuses on a tax as the solution. Madam Speaker, we have a 67 -page made-in-Manitoba green strategy developed by people from every length and breadth across the province, from every sector, quite frankly, over a year and a half of very diligent work.

And our plan is acknowledged as the best in the country, and there are 66 pages devoted to green which we will focus on, but we will not add to the uncertainty and economic struggles of our people in this province by allowing the fede ral government to dip into the pockets of Manitobans at an increasing rate over the next few years. * (14:00) The member says yes to a carbon tax and no to a green plan. We say yes to a green plan and no to a carbon tax. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a new question. Divorce Court Proceedings Conciliation Services Funding Mr.

Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): The Premier is making pollution free. He's giving big polluters a subsidy and it's a subsidy that all these children in the gallery will be paying for generations to come, Madam Speaker. Now, when families are splitting up we know – [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: –the children–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: –are suffering. We know that it's a very difficult time in the life of any child when their parents decide to part ways.

Yet, a Queen's Bench judge here in Manitoba is pointing a finger at this provincial government and saying this government is not giving children or families the support they need. I'll table the comments here. Justice Doyle stated clearly, and I'm quoting here: There's a dramatic loss of resources in regard to family conciliation services. They've lost assessors. End quote. It's –or, sorry , the quote continues: It's dramatic, and to have an assessment by October the 2nd , it is not going to happen. End quote. That court transcript is from July.

What steps will the Premier take to ensure all children are supported, all families receive the resources that they need and deserve? Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): Madam Speaker, we're committed to reducing poverty in this province. We've had some success, but we're committed to pursuing solutions that will address the issue. But the member is talking out of both sides of his mouth simultaneously. He's talking about adding a carbon tax which would disproportionately impact on low -income families in our province, which would disproportionately impact on people who live in rural and northern communities.

The members opposite know that. The member from Flin Flon laughs and giggles, but he's uncomfortable because he understands that the people who live in his community often don't have a choice on whether they fuel up their ve hicle or not because they're obliged to do so. People don't have the choice as to whether they heat their house for their children, Madam Speaker. These costs the member is talking about driving up will disproportionately hurt the very people that he claims in his

preamble he cares most about. Madam Speaker, we're saying no to a carbon tax that will hurt low-income families and yes to a green plan that will support, for generations to come, Manitoba's green reputation. Mr. Kinew: Think we've got a broken Premier here, Madam Speaker, because he keeps sounding like a broken record. The family court issue was the one that I raised in the previous question, Madam Speaker. A judge, an independent judge–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr.

Kinew: –at the Court of Queen's Bench is raising the alarm about the impacts that the cuts this provincial government is making and the fact that it's having real impacts on families who are looking for conciliation services. Essentially, they're looking for social wor kers to be able to have families referred to to help ensure that divorce proceedings are less damaging on children, to help ensure that kids, when they're going through one of the most difficult periods in their lives, are going to have the supports and re sources that they need in order to come out the other side of

3584 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 11, 2018 it whole and, hopefully, with a little bit of help from the adults in the room. In the words of the judge , it's a reduction of resources with respect to assessments. Will the Premier recognize the importance of these services and will he ensure they are available for the families when they need them? Mr. Pallister: Again, Madam Speaker, the member ignores the progress we have made by working effectively and collaboratively with people throughout this province who share our concern for the betterment of the people who struggle financially.

I come from such a background. Other members do as well, and we understand first -hand what happens when the money runs out before the end of the month. Bills are left on the table to pay. The member proposes to add to those bills. We do not propose to add to those bills. We have constructed additional housing units, over 500. We have added 3,000 people to the Rent Assist program in this province because, sadly , there is a need for such supports. We are, this year alone – [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Pallister: The member may not like the information, Madam Speaker, but it is of a factual nature.

It is not innuendo. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Pallister: The budget for the Families Department this year alone is $300 million higher than it ever was under the NDP, and the member uses the word cuts in his

preamble. Madam Speaker, we're getting results. We need to get more. We're committed to doing just that. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr. Kinew: The question was about the Justice Department, Madam Speaker, and it does not appear that the Premier knows what he's talking about, to be quite blunt about the matter. This is about the court being able to refer cases to social workers and other support workers who can provide that sort of backup for kids as their parents are going through divorce proceedings.

As you can imagine, it's a very difficult time for the parents as they go through potentially adversarial proceedings, but also it's very difficult on the children. Now, they deserve to be able to have these social workers or other resources at their disposal to be able to help them reach some sort of reconciliation. This judge, however, is saying that that's just not the case, and it's really a shame because this family conciliation is a wonderful tool, according to this judge, but that wonderful tool is not as plentiful as it once was.

So it's a simple question for the Premier once again, Madam Speaker: Will the Premier recognize the importance of these conciliation services and will he simply ensure that they are available for every family in Manitoba who needs them? Mr. Pallister: We've taken very focused and specific steps to find progress, Madam Speaker. We'll continue to do so. We introduced T he Protecting Children Act, which knocks the silos down and allows for the kind of collaboration the member alluded to in his

preamble to happen so that agencies no longer are working in isolation but are working co-operatively. We introduced the family law act, Madam Speaker, designed to move towards conciliation, reconciliation as alternatives, which was not the case in the past frequently enough. We've improved the budget for Victim Services. We have reduced the number of children in care, Madam Speaker, by having them not placed in motels, as the previous government did, but by having them placed in loving households a nd in loving communities instead.

We have made sure, Madam Speaker, that we are no longer the child poverty capital of Canada. Addiction Prevention Request for Government Plan Mr. Andrew Swan (Minto): We see this new Health Minister's response to challenges is not action, but picking fights to deflect from his own inaction. We sounded the alarm about increased addictions in Manitoba in 2016. We called for prevention, intervention, safe consumption sites and treatment, among other things, to address the drug crisis that has been rising over the past two years. But the Pallister government has ignored– [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr.

Swan: –these calls, even going so far as to doctor the VIRGO report to remove

October 11, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3585 recommendations to fight t his growing threat. And now he's picking a fight with health workers, rather than working to find solutions. Where is the government's plan to keep front - line health-care workers safe and make sure patients get the care they need? Hon.

Cameron Friesen (Minister of Health, Seniors and Active Living): Madam Speaker, that member knows that it was this government that commissioned and received the VIRGO report, a comprehensive report that was set out to study how we could improve our mental health and addi ctions system, how we could get better cohesion and collaboration, better efficiencies and better patient care. That was the report that strongly indicated that we had inherited a mess and that under the NDP government this was not attended to. We are attending to these things that that very member left unattended to.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Minto, on a supplementary question. Mr. Swan: This Minister of Health should know that morale in our health system is at an all -time low. Massive staffing changes and interference in collective bargaining has left Manitoba's health -care workers overwhelmed. And now, on top of that, nurses and other health workers are dealing with the growing daily violence caused by meth, and the minister's response to this has been nothing short of tone deaf.

He argues that staff already have all the tools they need and the WRHA disputes that meth is to blame for the sharp rise in violence. What's needed is a real strategy and a minister who takes this seriously. Will the minister listen to what front- line workers are saying and commit to this today? Madam Speaker: The honourable minister–I would indicate that members in the gallery are not to be applauding when there are questions and answers being given on the floor. Members are asked not to be participating in the activities of members here.

So I would encourage all members in the gallery, as our rules dictate, to please refrain from applauding, and I appreciate your co-operation in that. The honourable Mini ster of Health, Seniors and Active Living. Mr. Friesen: There are many inaccuracies in the statements just made by the member for Minto. That member knows that this government has said clearly, first and foremost, our thoughts are with that injured person in that latest incident, and our focus is on patient and safe–patient safety and staff safety and visitor safety in these facilities.

This morning, I had a chance to visit HSC and meet with the ED head and the ED director there. I met with the staff, I talked to security guards and I saw a professional workforce that faces challenges every day. I saw the evidence of courtesy in the face of challenge. Clearly, there are challenges that we're facing. We must face them as a system together. It's not just a Manitoba problem, it's not just a health -care problem, and I would call for– * (14:10) Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. The honourable member for Minto, on a final supplementary. Mr.

Swan: Madam Speaker, Manitoba Nurses Union president Darlene Jackson tells us that nurses fear for their lives when they go to work. If the Minister of Health wants to say that's inaccurate, let him stand in his place and do so. It is a sad reality that response s to violent and unpredictable patients has become a daily occurrence not just at Health Sciences Centre, but at St. Boniface, at Grace, at Brandon and the health facilities across the province. But despite warnings from patients, from families, from police, from community groups and the opposition, this minister has no plan.

Instead, he's picking fights and ignoring concrete proposals like safe consumption sites. Why does the minister have no c omprehensive plan to deal with methamphetamine in Manitoba? Mr. Friesen: Well, Madam Speaker, again, many inaccuracies in that member's statement, but perhaps the biggest one around the accusation of no work done. It was the WRHA who actually worked wit h the Manitoba Nurses Union to establish the provincial health care violence prevention program that continues to educate front-line staff on how to safely deal with these issues. We are all concerned about

3586 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 11, 2018 the very sudden and alarming rise of methamphetamine use in our communities. We would say to the opposition that they should join our approach of working collaboratively, listening well and learning from other jurisdictions. We must work together to get this done, and instead that member continues to tear it down. Poverty Reduction Strategy Request for Government Plan Mrs. Bernadette Smith (Point Douglas): The government's poverty reduction strategy is over a year and a half late.

The Poverty Reduction Strategy Act passed in 2011 says that the P rovince must update its strategy every five years. This government has broken their promise again and again and again, and now hundreds of Manitobans have marched to the Legislative building today to call this government to account. The minister didn't even bother to attend. So I will ask the minister again today: Will she produce her poverty reduction plan or her strategy today? Madam Speaker: The honourable minister – [interjection] Order, please.

I understand that there has been more applause in the gallery, and I would indicate to members in the gallery that we do have rules. I believe that rules have been handed out to everybody, and I would ask members to please not applaud when questions are being asked or answered. If members in the gallery choose not to follow the rules of the gallery, we may have to ask them to leave the gallery. We do ask everybody –and this is a very public place, we do welcome people here. We hope people can watch all of the, you know, questions and answers, but we do ask for everybody's co-operation, please.

That is part of the proceedings of–and part of the rules of attending the Manitoba Legislature, so I would ask for everybody's co- operation, please, that there be no applause from the public gallery. Hon. Heather Stefanson (Minister of Families): I'm not sure where to begin with the litany, again, of false assertions from the members–or from the member opposite in her

preamble. I can assure that–the members of 'thats' House, I can sure the members in the gallery, who I know believe very strongly about this issue , and I can 'ansure' Manitobans that we take this issue of poverty very seriously. Manitobans know what we received under the previous NDP government that resulted in Manitobans being–having the highest –the–we were the child poverty capital of Canada. I'm pleased to inform the House and Manitobans that we are no longer the child poverty capital of Canada. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Point Douglas, on a supplementary question. Mrs.

Smith: Today, hundreds of concerns – concerned Manitobans marched to this very Legislature, calling on action to reduce poverty. Some of them are with us here today in the gallery. We've heard from Make Poverty History that poverty and social exclusion affects over 140,000 Manitobans: women, indigenous people , seniors, single parents and people with disabilities , who are more likely to be impacted by poverty. Meanwhile, this Premier (Mr. Pallister) cut Rent Assist, cut social housing, froze the 'miminum' wage–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mrs.

Smith: –and he's cut services to help – [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mrs. Smith: –Manitoba's most vulnerable people over and over again. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mrs. Smith: Yesterday, the minister said she's working on a plan. The people gathered here today are saying– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. Mrs. Stefanson: Well, this coming from a member who's part of a party who was –I guess she's proud that her party drove the –drove our province into being the child poverty capital of Canada. We take a very different approach.

We see the seriousness of this issue–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mrs. Stefanson: –and since came to government we've opened more than 500 new housing units. We have the–increased the number of people who we're helping out on Rent Assist by more than 3,000 individuals, Madam Speaker.

October 11, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3587 We will continue to work with Manitobans toward concrete solutions to eradicate poverty in our province. I hope members opposite will be supportive in that. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Point Douglas, on a final supplementary. Mrs. Smith: Well, you're welcome for those 500 new social hou sing. You're also welcome for those 2000 statistics from reducing child– [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mrs. Smith: –poverty rates. We know how to lift people out of poverty because we're actually listening on this side of the House.

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Order. Order. Mrs. Smith: The problem is that this government refuses to listen. People leave–living in poverty need more social housing, a living wage, not a small 'miminum' wage, like, 20 cents that this government in–just did. They need accessible, community-based– [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mrs. Smith: –funding for mental health and addiction supports. They want more public child-care spaces and to eliminate the wait-list.

Will the Minister of Families listen to Manitobans and guarantee that her poverty reduction strategy will include all of these in her policies? Mrs. Stefanson: Well, we certainly do have our work cut out for us after 17 years of NDP mismanagement, where they doubled the number of children in our child- welfare system, where they doubled the number of children on our child- care wait-list, Madam Speaker. We will take no lessons from members opposite. What we will do: we will commit to working with organizations, with Manitobans to ensure t hat we work towards ending poverty in Manitoba.

We're lifting Manitobans out of poverty, Madam Speaker, by promoting economic inclusion to help more individuals enter the workforce , restructuring our social service programs and by continuing to grow our economy. Unlike members opposite, who wanted to hike the PST, which hurt low-income Manitobans, we take a different approach. We will help Manitobans. Workplace Death Case Concern Request for Public Inquiry Mr. Dougald Lamont (Leader of the Second Opposition): Madam Speaker, 10 years ago David Fifi, a 48 -year-old boilermaker, died when he was working for Comstock at the Inco Vale smelter site in Thompson.

His widow, Lila, is here in the gallery, with her family, and has been f ighting for answers since his death 10 years ago. This August, she finally received the answer she'd been fighting for. In a review of David's case by Manitoba's former Chief Medical Examiner, Dr. Peter Markesteyn, it was –Dr. Markesteyn said that David likely died as a result of exposure to toxic gases at his work site. In the documents that were released, it's clear that David and his co- workers were gassed repeatedly, safety equipment didn't work and their pleas for help were ignored. A few weeks ag o, I sent the Minister of Justice (Mr.

Cullen) a letter requesting an inquiry into the death of David Fifi and the safety issues at the Vale site. I've yet to receive a response. I ask the Premier (Mr. Pallister): Will he direct the Minister of Justice t o open a public inquiry today? Hon. Blaine Pedersen (Minister of Growth, Enterprise and Trade): Madam Speaker, any time a Manitoban passes away, it's our sympathies to the family and express our empathy for a loss of life. It's always tragic. In this particular case, this is a matter for the Workers Compensation Board and the current chief medical officer.

If the member actually has more information he should be sharing it with the chief medical officer. We will not interfere politically in this matter. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Second Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Lamont: For eight years the NDP government refused to release reports around David's death. I'd like to quote a co -worker of David, from the –from these reports: Starting at about October 26th: I was working on the 204 duct line with David Fifi and we were getting constantly gassed.

The gas cuts right through your respirator, so no matter how you try to protect yourself, you can't. That's the week that David Fifi, myself and others all started to feel sick. We're not provided enough gas 'monistors'–monitors,

3588 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 11, 2018 because more often than not, we did not have enough. It's pretty sad that someone had to die before they'll look at the problem. End quote. * (14:20) This witness statement, along with many others, were concealed from David's family for eight years, and now many of them are from statements from David's co -workers who are dead. They're not available to testify. If this government truly wants to show it's any different than the one it replaced, they should immediately open an inquiry.

I will ask the Minister of Justice : Will he show the Fifi family the respect they deserve by meeting with her today to discuss David's case? Mr. Pedersen: Madam Speaker, contrary to what the member has said, it was actually this government that did release all the relevant information to the family. We saw no reason to hold that information back and, again, I would just urge the member, if he actually has more pertinent information about this he should be contacting the chief medical officer and working with Workers Compensation Board.

Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Second Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr. Lamont: Madam Speaker, the government did not release –has continued to withhold information and it's still dribbling out information because it controls all the information on David Fifi's file. Reports from David co -workers show that all workers suffered fro m exposure. Fifty –over 50 per cent became sick and there were three deaths among the workers. This is not a single Workers Compensation Board case. The Workers Compensation Board ignored the case for years and has only just reopened the case.

Equipment was described as not being up to code. Workers wore half -masks which didn't protect adequately against exposure. Communication equipment was also described as being substandard, either broken or absent entirely. These are not issues for the Workers Compensation Board. They're issues for a public inquiry. We need answers on how this situation became so dangerous and how it was ignored and covered up for so long. It's time for the Manitoba government to stand up for David Fifi. This is not just a quest ion about finding answers; it's a question of finding justice.

Will this government do the right thing by calling a public inquiry into the death of David Fifi? Mr. Pedersen: Again, Madam Speaker, in a letter dated September 18, 2018, from the Minister of Justice department, they are saying that–to Mrs. Fifi that she is now in possession of all documents in the file from the office of the Chief Medical Examiner respecting her husband's death and there was enclosures in this. Again, this is –the member s hould be –the member is, unfortunately, trying to politicize this issue.

He should be taking –if they have any new evidence here they should be taking it –and even the current evidence that's out there –he should be discussing it with the chief medical officer , not trying to politicize this issue. Methamphetamine Use Public Awareness Campaign Mr. Tom Lindsey (Flin Flon): Madam Speaker, the Premier's $350,000 ad campaign on cannabis is getting national attention, but, unfortunately, for all the wrong reasons. Academics and experts are criticizing the campaign for its scare tactics and overall lack of substance.

At the same time , people such as the Manitoba children's advocate are saying this government is failing to provide adequate education and support t o the methamphetamine crisis. Will this government, today, commit to spending at least that minimum amount that they spend on the campaign on cannabis towards the meth crisis? Hon. Cliff Cullen (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Ever since th e federal government decided they were going to make cannabis legal across the country, provincial jurisdictions were challenged with creating the framework, the legal framework around cannabis.

In our view we took public safety paramount. That's why we'v e enforced very strict rules around cannabis use and also we've launched several education campaigns about cannabis and cannabis use, and we will continue to educate Manitobans about safe use of cannabis. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Flin Flon, on a supplementary question.

October 11, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3589 Mr. Lindsey: Madam Speaker, $350,000 could have gone a long way towards helping young people who are struggling with addiction, but because those young people don't have access to Rapid Access centres, safe injection sites, that's not happening. It could have gone towards warning young people of the dangers of meth. No; that's not happening. Did the Premier purchase one poster for schools to warn about the dangers of meth? No, he didn't. Will this government commit today to at least– [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr.

Lindsey: –committing that amount of resources that they've spent on their scare campaign around cannabis to a campaign to educate people about crystal meth and the dangers of that? [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Order. Mr. Cullen: Madam Speaker, I do appreciate the question from the member opposite. We do know there's challenges in dealing with meth, challenges dealing with various illicit drugs across the province. In fact, other jurisdictions are wrestling with the same challenges. Certainly, our hearts go out to the families that are involved in these situations.

We certainly understand the public and their concern about these situations as they occur. T hat's why we're working with our police forces; we're working with people in health care; we're working with people in mental health as well. So it's going to take a concerted effort on behalf of all Manitobans to resolve this very dangerous situation. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Flin Flon, on a final supplementary. Mr. Lindsey: This government has spent $350,000 on an ad campaign about anti -cannabis straight out of the '60s, and yet they won't spend 5 cents on any kind of ad campaign about crystal meth.

Emergency rooms–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Lindsey: –have seen a 1,200 per cent increase in the number of–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Lindsey: –meth-related visits. The Bear Clan has cleaned up over 30,000 needl es in Winnipeg this year alone. This government's response is to carry on with health -care cuts that are creating chaos, confusion and not solving the problem. Will this government actually follow the – [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr.

Lindsey: –evidence, listen to the experts and help our front -line health-care workers by investing in policies they need to be safe at work? Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): Well, frankly, Madam Speaker, I appreciate the member raising the issue of cannabis. It is just a week away that it will be legal. But there's a bit of a contradiction–more than a bit –in the NDP positions on this issue. They have advocated that the penalties should be lower for people selling drugs like cannabis on school grounds to minors, a nd that doesn't strike me as standing consistent with the member's question today.

They have proposed that it be taxed more, which is a great position if you want to help the underground economy and gangs distribute it, but a bad position if you want to ge t it out of the hands of organized crime. And furthermore, Madam Speaker, they're of a mind–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Pallister: –that cannabis should be legal for 18-year-olds, which would increase, naturally, the prevalence of it in hig h schools. These are not positions at all consistent with the member's question today. Investors Group Field Loan Restructure Mr.

Derek Johnson (Interlake): Thank you, Madam Speaker–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Johnson: The NDP leader, the member for Fort Rouge (Mr. Kinew), threw his own caucus and party under the bus. He admitted that the NDP's shell game to finance the Investors Group Field was a disaster. Can the Minister of Finance please help Manitobans understand how we a re cleaning up this NDP mess for the taxpayers of this great province? Hon. Scott Fielding (Minister of Finance): Finally, we can agree with the leader of the opposition on an issue.

3590 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 11, 2018 What I can say is that Investors Group Field was a complicated deal put together by the NDP, a complicated scheme put together by the NDP government, to hide the true cost of the stadium. We agree with the comptroller, we agree with the Auditor General that believes –that was doubtful that we would ever get the money back. We, Madam Speaker, are putting –to work with the Bombers to protect taxpayers as best we can to get as much money back. And let me be perfectly clear: we're not cutting a cheque for this. No one is off the hook, Madam Speaker.

We're going to work w ith the Bombers to collect, on behalf of taxpayers, the bad debt that was put forward by the NDP on a complicated deal. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Poverty Reduction Strategy Request for Government Plan Mr. Dougald Lamont (Leader of the Second Opposition): Madam Speaker, I'd like to thank the folks from Make Poverty History for joining us here today. When it comes to dealing with poverty, Manitoba's record stands out as unique in its failures.

I table a report that shows between 1981 and 2010 every single province experienced a considerable drop in poverty for single -parent families but one: Manitoba, where it increased by 9.1 per cent. Manitoba has seen more than $1 billion in corporate property and individual tax cuts for the wealthiest Manitobans while hiking taxes on those who can least afford it, years of frozen budgets and layoffs, two -tier workplaces, privatization and balancing budgets on the backs of the poorest of the poor who haven't seen a raise in their incomes in more than a generation. And t hat was just the NDP, Madam Speaker.

For 17 years the NDP maintained and even surpassed right-wing PC policies on crime– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Order. * (14:30) Mr. Lamont: –taxes and poverty. Instead of doubling down– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Lamont: –on the NDP's failures, will this Premier deliver his long -awaited poverty plan – [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Lamont: –and action to match it? Hon.

Brian Pallister (Premier): Madam Speaker, we are somewhat pleased with the modest progress we've experienced thus far in battling poverty, but, certainly, emboldened by the challenges of doing more and better on these important files.

And I would say to the member that certainly we ar e encouraged, in the sense that we are leaving more money on the kitchen tables of Manitobans, which does help to alleviate poverty in those households that he referenced, as opposed to raising taxes like the PST, broadening the applications of the PST , as the previous administration did, which made things harder for low-income households. Frankly, Madam Speaker, as their tax levels rose disproportionately, poverty levels rose along with them and this hurt low -income families very much. We want to help low -income families.

We want to make sure that we're doing everything we can. I want to say, Madam Speaker, as I have the opportunity, congratulations to Tom Yandeau. The people from Plumas worked so hard on the Plumas Pirates franchise for 75 years. It's a fine community, he's a fine guy and he makes his former teachers very, very proud. Madam Speaker: The honourable member of the second opposition, on a supplementary question. Canada Child Benefit Clawback for Children in Care Mr.

Dougald Lamont (Leader of the Second Opposition): Madam Speaker, we should all celebrate that Manitoba has fewer children living in poverty, but I don't know that there's a shred of evidence that this government's policies have anything to do with it. The improvements for families of children coincide with the new federal– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Lamont: –Canada child benefit , which is progressive and tax free. It actually goes to families who need it most. Since being implemented it means

October 11, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3591 $500 million more in new funds for Manitoban families, a guaranteed income for children. But, Madam Speaker, both the NDP and the PCs had followed the practice of confiscating that benefit from the 10,000-plus children in care and using it to shrink the deficit, effectively taxing the income of the poorest, most vulnerable children at 100 per cent. In opposition, the member for Portage la Prairie (Mr. Wishart) called it immoral.

Will this government cease the shameful, immoral practice of takin g funds from the poorest, most vulnerable children in the province: children in care? Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): Well, to be fair, Madam Speaker, to the federal government in this respect–who the member praises from his Ottawa-west location as Ottawa -east–let's also understand that they have broken their commitments on a number of important fronts, whether it be electoral reform or on balancing the books. They actually have proposed now to add to the debt of our country over $30 billion over the next few years.

I know the member supports that and has said that the problem the NDP had wasn't overspending in the past, it was underspending. So I know his belief that we can hand these obligations to our children and grandchildren is instilled in him. But we don't agree that that's fair or right. We are working to address poverty; we will continue to do so. A nd I would praise the federal government where I felt it was deserved. In this particular instance, I think it's not that much deserved. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Second Opposition, on a final supplementary.

Economic Development Request for Government Plan Mr. Dougald Lamont (Leader of the Second Opposition): Madam Speaker, the Premier's mistaken when he says that I think the NDP should have spent more. What I said is that, like the PCs, they blew a hole in the deficit and in the debt by doing a billion dollars in tax cuts by 2009. Perhaps if the Premier had spent more time in the province, he'd be aware of that. But between 1981 and 2010 Manitoba's had the worst growth of any province. One of the fundamental reasons for Manitoba's poverty is that our wages are low.

One in five Manitobans haven't seen a raise since 1976. Last December in t he state of the province address, the Premier revealed that his government had hired a high- priced consultant who discovered, to the Premier's shock , that this government has no plan for jobs, growth or economic development, something any Manitoban could have told him for free. This total lack of a plan was cited as one of the reasons for Manitoba's credit downgrade last year, and there is still no plan and no action.

Will this government's economic plan recognize–when it's released–that we need to create new jobs with better wages so that parents can lift themselves and their children out of poverty? Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): There's much more to do, of course, to help people get out of poverty. The old axiom about the best cure for poverty is employment opportunities or a job is–to some degree is valid. And so I would share with the member of doom and–I'm sorry, of St. Bonifa ce, Madam Speaker, that Manitoba has had some experience in the last two and a half years of a positive nature he shouldn't ignore.

We've led the country in agricultural productivity and farm cash receipts, that's a – [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Pallister: –good news thing, because many of our people are rural and are impacted, as we all are, by ag economy. We've led the country in retail sales of vehicles, for example. In terms of private sector capital spending growth we are first in the country, Madam Speaker, and expected to be first again this year. In terms of international exports, our exports are up, to the United States, by 23 per cent this year, and they are the best among the provinces.

Madam Speaker, our economic performance is significant. It is a marked accomplishment not just for this government, but for the investors and small-business people of our province. I would hope the member would share in the elation we feel about those facts. Madam Speaker: The time for oral questio ns has expired.

3592 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 11, 2018 PETITIONS Seven Oaks General Hospital Emergency Room Mrs. Bernadette Smith (Point Douglas): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows – [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mrs. Smith: The provincial government has announced the closures of three emergency rooms and an urgent -care centre in the city of Winnipeg, including closing down the emergency room at Seven Oaks General Hospital.

(2) The closures come on the heels of the closing of a nearby QuickCare clinic–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Order. Mrs. Smith: –as well as cancelled plans for ACCESS centres and personal -care homes, such as Park Manor, that would have provided important services for families and seniors in the area.

(3) The closures have left families and seniors in north Winnipeg without any points of contact with front-line health-care services and will result in them having to travel 20 minutes or more to St. Boniface Hospital's emer gency room or Health Sciences Centre's emergency room for emergency care.

(4) These cuts will place a heavy burden on the many seniors who live in north Winnipeg and visit the emergency room frequently, especially those who are unable to drive or are low income.

(5) The provincial government failed to consult with families and seniors in north Winnipeg regarding the closure of their emergency room or to consult with health officials and health -care workers at Seven Oaks to discuss how these closures would impact patient care in advance of the announcement. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to reverse the decision to close Seven Oaks General Hospital's emergency room so that families and seniors in north Winnipeg and the surrounding areas have timely access to quality health-care services.

And this is signed by Victoria San Jose, Elsa Bautista, Benjamin Bautista and many, many other Manitobans. Madam Speaker: In accordance with our rule 133(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to be received by the House. Vimy Arena Hon. Steven Fletcher (Assiniboia): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background of this petition is as follows:

(1) The residents of St. James and other areas of Manitoba are concerned with the intention expressed by the provincial government to use the Vimy Arena site as a Manitoba Housing project.

(2) The Vimy Arena site is in the middle of a recreational area near many schools, churches, community clubs and seniors homes, and neither the provincial government or the City of Winnipeg considered better-suited locations in rural, semi-rural or industrial locations such as the St. Boniface Industrial Park, the 20,000 acres a t CentrePort or existing properties such as the Shriners Hospital or Children's Hospital on Wellington Crescent.

(3) The provincial government is exempt from any zoning requirements that would have existed if the land was owned by the City. This exemption bypasses community input and due diligence and ignores better uses of the land which would be consistent with a residential area.

(4) There are no standards that one would expect for a treatment centre. The Minister of Health, Seniors and Active Living has stated that the Department of Health had no role to play in the land acquisition for this Manitoba Housing project for use as a drug addiction facility. * (14:40)

(5) The Manitoba Housing project initiated by the provincial government changes the funda mental nature of the community, including park and recreational uses. Concerns of the residents of St. James and others regarding public safety, property values and their way of life are not properly being addressed.

(6) The concerns of the residents of St. James are being ignored while obvious other locations in wealthier neighbourhoods, such as Tuxedo, River Heights, have not been considered for this Manitoba Housing project, even though there are hundreds of acres of land available for development at K apyong

October 11, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3593 or parks like Heubach Park that share the same zoning as the Vimy Arena site.

(7) The Manitoba Housing project and the operation of the drug treatment centre fall outside the statutory mandate of the Manitoba housing renewal corporation.

(8) The province –the provincial government does not have a co -ordinated plan for addiction treatment in Manitoba as it currently underfunds treatment centres which are running far under capacity and potential.

(9) The community has been misled regarding the true intention of the Manitoba Housing as the land is being transferred for a 50 -bed facility even though it clearly falls outside the Manitoba Housing responsibility. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the provincial government to take all the necessary steps to ensure that the Vimy Arena site is not used for an addiction treatment facility.

(2) To urge the provincial government to take the necessary steps to ensure the preservation of public land along Sturgeon Creek f or the purpose of parkland and recreational activities for public use, including being an important component of the Sturgeon Creek Greenway Trail and the Sturgeon Creek ecosystem under the current designation of PR2 for the fifty –255 Hamilton Avenue locat ion at the Vimy Arena site, and to maintain the land to be continued to be designated for parks and recreation activity, neighbourhood communities. This has been signed by many Manitobans. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Education Tax Rebate Mr. James Allum (Fort Garry-Riverview): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) Manitoba students and families recognize that post -secondary education should be accessible and affordable to all, and that going to university or college should not be a debt sentence.

(2) Tuition remains one of the biggest barriers to education, and Manitoba should maintain its record as having some of the most affordable tuition in Canada.

(3) Without cons ulting with students, this Premier and his Cabinet recklessly eliminated the student tuition rebate after raising tuition fees and failing to invest any new money into post -secondary education, which will make it harder for parents and students to pay for tuition and will discourage students from pursuing post-secondary education.

(4) Manitoba's 60 per cent education tax rebate helped encourage new graduates to stay in the province and helped keep post -secondary education accessible and affordable for Manitoba families.

(5) The provincial gover nment is trying to balance the Province's books on the backs of students by lifting the cap on tuition fees and thereby allowing tuition to be raised by 7 per cent a year, as well as freezing minimum wage for the s econd year in a row.

(6) This Premier and his Cabinet are making education more expensive for Manitobans, and the elimination of the education tax rebate hits low-income students and families the hardest. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: That the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba be urged to call upon the Premier of Manitoba and his Cabinet to reinstate the education tax rebate to its full amount and commit to keeping post -secondary education accessible and affordable to M anitoba students and families. This petition is signed by Angela Sloan, Leona Reimer, Menola Barlow, and many other Manitobans.

Addictions Services–Brandon and Western Manitoba Mr. Andrew Swan (Minto): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) Addictions are a health and social problem that require co -ordinated responses from the health - care, social services, education and justice systems.

(2) It is well known that the number of people addicted to alcohol, drugs and other substances is on the rise in Manitoba, with a notable increase in use of methamphetamine and opiates, two highly addictive and very destructive drugs.

(3) Between April 2015 and April 2018, drug abuse and alcohol abuse were two of the top three

3594 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 11, 2018 risk factors identified by the community mobilization Westman HUB when dealing with persons with acutely elevated risk.

(4) Recent Brandon Police Service annual reports show a steady increase in calls for service for crimes against property and person.

(5) In Brandon and western Manitoba, individuals seeking addictions treatment and the families trying to help them do not have local access to the services or supports they need.

(6) There is no publicly available, centralized list of addictions facilities in Manitoba. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To request that the provincial gover nment consider establishing a cross -departmental team to provide leadership on a culturally appropriate, co-ordinated response to the growing addictions crisis in our province that includes an aggressive, widespread education campaign on the dangers of using methamphetamine and opiates, along with addictions education for front -line medical staff in health-care facilities.

(2) To request that the provincial government consider providing additional addictions services in Brandon and western Manitoba across the continuum of care including acute response, detoxification, long-term rehabilitation, transitional housing and support for managing co-occurring disorders.

(3) To request that the Minister of Health, Seniors and Active Living consider establishing a publicly available inventory of all addictions facilities in Manitoba.

(4) To request that the Minister of Health, Seniors and Active Living consider providing supports for the families of people struggling with addiction, including counselling, patient navigation and advocacy and direct access to free naloxone. This petition is signed by Kim Longstreet, Allison Done, Leanne Gabrielle and many other Manitobans. Medical Laboratory Services Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Madam Speaker, I wish to pr esent the following petition to the Legislative Assembly.

The background to this petition is as follows: The provision of laboratory services to medical clinics and physicians' offices has been historically, and continues to be, a private sector service. It is vitally important that there be competition in laboratory services to allow medical clinics to seek solutions from more than one provider to control costs and to improve service for health professionals and patients.

Under the present provincial government, Dynacare, an Ontario -based subsidiary of a US company, has acquired Unicity labs, resulting in a monopoly situation for the provision of laboratory services in medical clinics and physicians' offices. With the creation of this monopoly, there's been closure of many laboratories by Dynacare in around the city of Winnipeg. Since the acquisition of Unicity labs, Dynacare has made it more difficult for some medical offices by changing the collection schedules of patients' specimens and charging some medical offices for collection services.

These closures have created a situation where a great number of patients are less well served, having to travel significant distances in some cases, waiting considerable periods of time and sometimes being denied or having to leave without obtaining lab services. The situation is particularly critical for patients requiring fasting blood draws, as they may experience complications that could be life-threatening based on their individual health situations.

Furthermore, Dynacare has instructed that all patients requiring immediate results, STAT's patients such as patients with suspicious internal infections, be directed to its King Edward location. This creates unnecessary obstacles for the patients who are required to travel to that lab rather than simply completing the test in their doctor's office. This new directive by Dynacare presents a direct risk to patients' health.

This has further resulted in patients opting to visit emergency rooms rather than travelling twice, which increases cost to the public health-care system. * (14:50) Medical clinics and physicians' offices service thousands of patients in their communities and have structured their offices to provide a one -stop service, acting as a health -care front line that takes off some of the load from emergency rooms. The creation of this monopoly has been problematic to many medical clinics and physicians, hampering their ability to

October 11, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3595 provide high- quality and complete service to their patients due to closures of so many laboratories. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to request Dynacare to reopen the closed laboratories or allow Diagnostic Services of Manitoba to freely open labs in clinics which formerly housed labs that have been shut down by Dynacare.

To urge the provincial government to ensure high-quality lab services for patients and a level playing field in –and competition in the provision of laboratory services to medical offices. To urge the provincial government to address this matter immediately in the intere st of better patient-focused care and improved support for health professionals. Signed by Cathy Mukai, Kenneth Grower, Linda McDiarmuid and many others. Madam Speaker: Grievances? ORDERS OF THE DAY (Continued) GOVERNMENT BUSINESS Hon.

Kelvin Goertzen (Government House Leader): I am seeking leave that , in the event that we are still sitting at 6 p.m. tonight, could you please canvass the House to allow that the standing committees on Legislative Affairs and socioeconomic development to sit concurrently when the House is–sit concurrently starting at 6 p.m. if the House is still sitting? Madam Speaker: Is there leave to allow the standing committees on Legislative Affairs and Social and Economic Development to sit concurrently with the House starting at 6 p.m. if the House is still sitting? Agreed? Some Honourable Members: Agreed.

Some Honourable Members: No. Madam Speaker: Leave has been denied. Mr. Goertzen: Could you please call Bill 35, followed by Bill 34, then followed by the resumption of main and Capital Supply? Madam Speaker: It has been announced that the House will consider Bill 35 this afternoon, to be followed by second reading debate on Bill 34, then followed by main and Capital Supply.

SECOND READINGS Bill 35–The Crown Lands Amendment Act (Improved Management of Community Pastures and Agricultural Crown Lands) Madam Speaker: Second reading, then, of Bill 35, The Crown Lands Amendment Act (Improved Management of Community Pastures and Agricultural Crown Lands). Hon. Ralph Eichler (Minister of Agriculture): I move, seconded by the Minister of Sustainable Development (Ms. Squires), that Bill 35, The Crown Lands Amendment Act (Improved Management of Community Pastures and Agricultural Crown Lands), be now read a second time and to be referred to a committee of this House.

His Honour the Administrator has been advised of the bill, and I table the message. Madam Speaker: It has been moved by the honourable Minister of Agriculture, seconded by the honourable Minister for Sustainable Devel opment, that Bill 35, The Crown Lands Amendment Act (Improved Management of Community Pastures and Agricultural Crown Lands), be now read a second time and be referred to a committee of this House. The–His Honour the Administrator has been advised of the bill, and the message is tabled. Mr. Eichler: It's my pleasure to introduce the amendments to this bill.

Before I do, I would like to– thank you–one member–that's okay–[interjection] I would like to take the advantage of this moment to introduce the members that came in to help me on this legislation last Thursday when I introduced the bill: James Battershill from the Keystone Ag Producers; Jill Verwey from the Keystone Ag Producers; B arry Ross from the Association of Manitoba Community Pastures; Dave Koslowsky, Manitoba Forage and Grassland Association; Duncan Morrison, Manitoba Forage and Grassland Association; Tom Teichroeb, President of Manitoba Beef Producers; Robert Metner, Crown Lands Committee Chair for Manitoba Beef Producers; Maureen Cousins, poly -analysis for Manitoba Beef Producers; and, of course, the support of the Manitoba Associa tion of Manitoba Municipalities, and, of course, Manitoba Beef and Forage Initiative.

I'd a lso be remiss if I did not thank my colleague, the Minister of Sustainable Development

3596 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 11, 2018 (Ms. Squires), for her role in helping us make sure we get this legislation right. And, of course, this bill will improve how agricultural Crown lands and community pastures are managed. These amendments will allow the allocation of agricultural leases on Crown lands to be auctioned. Manitoba's cattle producers and the Keystone ag producers have told us directly they prefer an auction system that –to–of a tender or a points-based system, because auctions are open, transparent and not subject to delays caused by appeals.

They also want to know the value of the bids in real time, which only an auction can achieve. This bill will also allow for designated – designation of lands as community pastures. Community pastures were created in response to the dust bowls in 1930. This government is 'continning'– committed to maintaining the use of these fragile lands as community pastures. These pastures benefit not only Manitoba farmers but also protect these unique ecosystems.

Designating community pastures will allow the Province to continue to provide grazing and haying opportunities for farmers while also achieving environmental benefits such as carbon sequestration, protecting threatened species, and maintaining biodiversity. Community pastures offer a unique opportunity for new farmers to enter into the livestock production without the need of large investments for land. These pastures are integral advantage for our provinc e to grow our livestock sector and help establish the next generation of producers through affordable access to pastures.

I want to explain that the public auction will be used for both allocation of leases and setting the rent for these leases. Instead of a points-based system that is often disputed and appealed, there will be a more fair, transparent auction system. On average, there were eight appeals per year to the appeal tribunal about allocation of these leases. In 2017, there were 24 appeals. Our auction system will be more efficient and transparent, reducing disputes. Producers have told us they prefer an auction system that enables them to set their initial rental cost upfront.

The previous system used a complicated pasture surveying method t o determine the rent that was both difficult to administer and was not predictable or transparent for our clients. Mr. Doyle Piwniuk, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair Community pastures are integral advantage for our province to grow our livestock sector and help establish the next generation of producers through affordable access to pasture. The designation of lands of community pastures in this legislation will allow us to protect these lands for haying and grazing while also achieving protected area status.

Achieving the protected area status enables Manitoba to play a leadership role in supporting national targets under the International Union for Conservation of Nature. In addition to supporting these targets, this protection will provide numerous 'enbitle' benefits, including carbon 'sequestrian' protection of threatened species, and maintaining biodiversity. In closing, our department is committed to including the outcomes of community pastures, both environmentally and agriculturally, within the future of our annual reports. I want to thank all members for the House to allow us to debate this bill here today.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Questions Mr. Deputy Speaker: A question period of up to 15 minutes will be held. Questions may be addressed to the minister by any member from the following sequence: first question by the official opposition critic and 'desinate', and the second question from the second opposition critic or designate, and subsequent questions be asked by each of the independent members. Remaining questions may be asked by the opposition members, and no questions or answers should exceed 45 seconds. Mr.

Ted Marcelino (Tyndall Park): One of the fears that I have is the danger of young farmers being unable to bid on the Crown lands that are supposed to be available. How will the government ensure that they are not priced out of the market? Hon. Ralph Eichler (Minister of Agriculture): The member raises a very serious question, and we are committed to helping our young producers st ay viable and, of course, encourage investment in the livestock sector.

Through the change of these amendments, this will ensure that those producers will have that opportunity now and into the future. * (15:00) And, also, I would like to put on the record that we have the best initiatives through our agricultural services corporations for encouraging young farmers, through the loan assist programs and rebate system

October 11, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3597 for our young farmers of this side, to get into the farming sector and young generations taking over the next generation of farming as we go forward. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, my question to the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Eichler): How long will these leases last? Is there a range? Are they going to be all of a set length, and what measures will be there to make sure that the lands are well taken care of and willing –that include, you know, assessment of things like biodiversity? Mr. Eichler : Mr.

Deputy Speaker, a very good question and one that we focused on expressively in this legislation. And the regulations will deal with the terms of the lease. Currently, we're looking– through our consultation process –at a 10 -year renewable lease so that producers that make investments in these Crown lands, that they would be allowed to recoup some of those expenses and, of course, if they find that they want to give up that particular piece of Crown land, then compensation would be in order for them achieve that.

So we know that the young farmers are our next generation of leaders and we work very closely with them, and after the bill has received royal assent– Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable minister's time is up. Mr. Tom Lindsey (Flin Flon): Is the minister not concerned that by opening lease bidding to any Canadian resident or corporation that Manitobans will not be able to have access to land in their own province? Mr. Eichler: I thank the member for the question. But I just want to conclude with the young farmers that –in the former question.

But it's very important that we make sure we get this right, and the consultation process through the regulations will be open and transparent. Last winter, we did a large part of that consultation just before we brought in the legislation. So the regulations, the same process will be as open and as transparent as well. Now, in regards to the member from Flin Flon in regards to allowing and making sure that Manitobans do have access to this land, they will. But under the New West Partnership we can go into Saskatchewan or Alberta and rent lands there as well, as they can come here.

But we did have an issue last year, out of The Pas– Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member's time is up. Mr. Gerrard: Yes, let me ask again. In terms of the land that is up for auction, are there any standards there to make sure that the land is well looked after, and are there any, you know, biodiversity provisions as you have for part of this bill? Mr. Eichler: Absolutely. I'll try and keep my answers a little shorter. I know I'm running out of time, but I'm pretty passionate about this.

Absolutely, the same committee that checks the pastures now will ensure that they are not over-pastured, that they are there for the next year, for they will have –make sure there's enough grasslands to support the number of animal units that's allowed for that particular parcel. So we want to make sure that it's there for the next generation and, of course, the biodiversity is really important and we know that the studies have been out over and over again in regards to wildlife and cattle are a real nice fix. Hon. Steven Fletcher (Assiniboia): I commend the government on this bill.

An auction seems to be the fairest way. I'm not sure that the member for Tyndall's concern can be directly addressed through auction. But it is the fairest way. But there needs to be a lot of time, notice and wide dissemination of the lands that are available, and for how long. And that needs to be known so that the maximum number of people can place a bid. What does the minister plan to do to ensure that occurs? Mr. Eichler: I thank the member for the question, and it's a very important one.

We will start advertising once we have Crown lands available not only in that area that we're going to be holding the public auction in. For example, land that's going to become available in, say, The Narrows up by Ashern, in that area. We'll have the actual auction sale in the area to enable producers to be able to access maps and other data that will be made available to them so that they can bid accordingly to the auction and pay the price that they want to. And this was actually the request of the beef producers, to go to public auction.

We were going to go to the tender process, but they made it very, very clear. They don't want the appeal process– Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable minister's time is up.

3598 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 11, 2018 Mr. Marcelino: The–does the government have an y forms that are available by way of the lease contract themselves, or are they yet to be drafted? Mr. Eichler: Very good question, and yes, that's part of the consultation process. That same question comes up by the beef producers, and they want to be consulted on those. Once the bill is passed, then we draft the legislation according to the agreement. So, until such time, we can't predict the outcome and that's why we have this process. Mr.

Gerrard: Yes, there are two sections on this bill: one deals with community pastures and one deals with the auctioning. In the–what I was trying to get at was the land which is auctioned off, right. What is the oversight, in terms of making sure that the land's well looked after, and are there any provisions related t o those lands related to biodiversity? Mr. Eichler: I want to be very clear: the auction process is for a lease for Crown lands. The community pastures, those rates are set by the community pasture organization, and those same checks and balances that wer e there before will still be there now. Mr.

Marcelino: Can the honourable minister assure the House that there will be penalty clauses on those lease agreements for violation or abandonment of those leases? Mr. Eichler: Absolutely, Mr. Deputy Speaker. On e of the things that we have had happen in the current model that has been at risk for young farmers in particular is that a life lease comes in, and that is actually for life. So they sublet them and they rent them out, they sell the hay off, they don't have cattle no more, they quit and that's why we have to modernize this act.

The member's absolutely correct that this is a must in order for the next generation of farmers to have access to that land. So I thank the member for support. Mr. Fletcher: Will the minister guarantee that community newspapers will be used in making it known that these lands are available? Second question: What about the waterways? I recall, as a canoeist back in the day, you'd go down the Whitemouth River or Roseau or Rat Riv er and then, all of a sudden, you have to deke out or get out of the way of a cow or whatever which–there has to be a regulation against cows in 'canoe -ways'.

I wonder if the minister can guarantee that the waterways will be protected, or, at least, monito red. Two questions. Mr. Eichler: Absolutely, we'll be using newspapers, we'll be using a website, we'll be using government websites and other methods. We want to ensure that every producer has an opportunity to access this land, and that's been the problem. It's been more of a closed system. We want a open transparent system in order to ensure that every producer has an opportunity to have access to this land. Now, in regards to protection of waterways, there is legislation.

We have the strongest legis lation in the country in regards to runoff and to ensure that our environment is safe for the next generation as well. So I appreciate the member's question. Mr. Lindsey: I just want to focus a little bit on something the minister just said, that they're going to ensure that notices of when these lands become available will be in the newspapers, community newspapers. That seems to be contrary to what's in Bill 8.

So is the minister telling us that what's presently in Bill 8 is not going to apply, that this bill is going to supersede that or –maybe he could explain just want the plan is there. Mr. Eichler: The question that I was asked, would I be advertising in newspapers, and the answer was yes. I'm not debating whether Bill 8 should pass or not pass. That's up for the members to decide. * (15:10) Mr. Marcelino: Will the government grant loans so that young farmers will have access on those Crown lands? Is there something in the works? Mr.

Eichler: The loans that are available to young farmers are very clear through the Manitoba–through MASC, Agricultural Services Corporation. And they can use that land for operation. They can use it for operations to rent Crown land, as well, or buy cattle to put on those Crown lands. We have a very substantial investm ent into stocker loans and we've seen the beef numbers increase, but it's sure not where it was prior to BSE and the flood 2011.

We're sitting at about 500 million head of cattle –or 500,000 head of cattle and we're certainly hoping to see that number increase, but we had a pretty tough year this year and we may have some casualties as a result of that.

October 11, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3599 Mr. Gerrard: My question has to do with the leases which are up for auctions, not the community pastures. What is in those leases that provides some guarantee that the land will be looked after properly and that people will be considering biodiversity? Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member – Minister for Agriculture. Mr. Eichler: The leases that are written up and signed by the government and the lessee through the public auction system will have those details outlined in it.

Once we've finished that consultation process and once this bill has been passed and received royal assent, we'll have a clearer indication about what that will look like. We can't go out ahead of time and predict the outcome of this bill. That would just be wrong. Mr. Marcelino: One question that really bothers me a lot: Is the governme nt doing anything by way of regulation that will prevent a monopoly being introduced in the Crown land leases? Mr.

Eichler: Yes, and that's really a critical part because animal units are how we base that system, and currently it's at 4,800 animal units, which is a very complex formula. But I can be very clear that the beef producers did want to see a bit of an increase in that, but that still will be determined through our consultation process, not only with the beef producers but with the Association of Manitoba Municipalities and of course the Keystone Ag Producers as well. So we will –we'll ensure that we get it right. Mr.

Gerrard: In the lease agreements, which the minister is hiding the details of because he wants to go out and consult, but I don't mi nd the minister consulting, but I hope the minister has some sort of a vision. Is there a vision that there will be some protection of the land in that lease? Is there a vision that there would be some attention to biodiversity? Mr. Eichler : Well, the mem ber couldn't be farther wrong than me trying to hide something, I don't hide very easily. And we're very clear about what we want to do and see.

And now, the question in regards to the management of those Crown lands that we auction off as a lease, there' s very clear that the same committee that inspects those now will inspect them into the future. I've got to be very, very clear about that. And we know, through the use of these Crown lands, the biodiversity will increase and will being sure that that goes on for perpetuity. Mr.

Fletcher: I'd like to give the minister the opportunity to specifically say that community newspapers, as recognized by the Community Newspapers Association of Manitoba, will be used to make sure that there is notice of these lands. I'd also like to ask the minister –back to the canoeing and the cows and the waterways –there's also, I recall, fences in the–going off the pasture land and so on, and it seems very frustrating and has to be illegal. It's just not runoff. These are regular rivers– Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member's time is up. Mr. Eichler: Mr.

Deputy Speaker, let's be very clear: farmers want this land to be available for the next generation. They want to ensure that they leave their land in better shape than they found it. And, yes, cows do go different parts of the pasture, and they fertilize their different parts of the pasture as well, but a lot of farmers take advantage of that to replace, and part one of our forage programs is actually using just exactly th at for that very reason, to reseed some of that pasture, so we're on the right track on science, and we'll follow the science as we go forward. Debate Mr.

Deputy Speaker: Time for question period has expired. Debate is open. Any speakers? Mr. Ted Marcelino (Tyndall Park): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I commend the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Eichler) of our province for opening up some of these opportunities for our young farmers, and I think it is a very good move on his part, but I worry a lot, especially when there are so many things that we are not sure of.

No. 1, competition and monopoly: if there was a big corporation–agricultural corporation–that has a lot of cash, and if they are willing to put in and monopolize the beef industry, there is a danger, if the regulations are not proclaimed, to protect our Crown lands from such monopolistic tendencies of those who have money or those who have credit.

And it's just one worry, because I really am not sure that 50 years is too long because 50- year leases, even if they are just renewable, when the minister said it's 10 -year leases, I'm looking at how the government will react if there are failures, if there are violations, if there are abandonments, and if there are any misbehaviour on the part of those w ho want

3600 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 11, 2018 the option in the first place, and then, suddenly, in some form or another, change their minds. And the minister should be warned that we are looking at performance. The young farmers of today are not really well supported by government, especially when there are drastic changes in the climate of our province. We have been hit with drought, and I was just wondering if there are some protections too, in the way that the wetlands that are available in those Crown lands will be used or protected. Wil l the regulations cover that?

Will the minister assure the House that no, the environment will be absolutely protected. And I want to tell him that it's part of our leadership, and it's part of our own concerns that we have to move not really too fast ab out disposing of Crown land because we have also to cover the concerns of the First Nations who are living adjacent to or neighbouring to those Crown lands, and my suggestion would have been if –and this is a big if –if those First Nations are willing to do the business themselves, get into it, will the minister give them first priority?

Will there be any of that sort of–even if they bid a little bit lower –to give the First Nations adjacent to or neighbouring those Crown lands that will be available, some priority? Some preference? * (15:20) Because it's part of our obligation, not only to consult, but to give, specifically, allowances for those opportunities that First Nations should have. Our investment in the future of our province should always include our First Nations. And it will be an error on our

part if we do not do that; if we do not make it our duty to protect the interests of those First Nations and if we ignore their needs. The bill itself that we currently are talking about is a good step. I' ll say that: it's a good step. As the member from Assiniboia said, the fairest would be auctions. But there should be regulations and restrictions that ought to be put in place before the first square foot of Crown land is auctioned off. And there should be a limit as to the area or acreage of those that will be held by those entities who may want to get in.

And there should also be restrictions as to the number of leases that one person or entity or juridical person would be entitled to hold for 50 years. Changes in the climate and changes in the needs. Let us say that beef suddenly becomes a non-buyable product that could be sold, say, 30 years from now, if people suddenly decide that they want less beef, what happens? Is there any way that we could protect those Crown lands from being abandoned by those that hold the leases? And my real concern is that 50 years spans at least two generations of Manitobans.

Will there be a chance for the young farmers to transfer the lease, or sublease the property or t he land that they won in their auction? If not, then is there any chance that the law applying to those Crown lands could be amended so that it will just be the first, original lessee who will be allowed onto the land? The big thing about the rental rate s is that we have no way of knowing whether they are fair or not. Would it be market rate? Would it be the cost of administering those leases?

If at all possible, I would want the minister to assure us that those plants that are used for forage will be giv en enough protection so that those that are being sold to the US –and I think the minister knows that, that we produce some of these products for forage, and we sell them to the US. And I was just hoping that some of those will stay in the province.

And, if there should be a multinational corporation that comes in and makes it a business and raise those prices that they can control, will there be a mechanism that the minister could put in place by way of regulations so that those who would take advantage of the Crown land within our province cannot abuse the lease that they hold? It is a matter of concern not only for us as legislators but especially for the young farmers of today and the young farmers of tomorrow. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Madam Speaker in the Chair Mr.

Tom Lindsey (Flin Flon): I rise today to speak a little bit about this Bill 35, The Crown Lands Amendment Act. Of course, we have some concerns that the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Eichler) didn't really address in his answers to questions, and actually some of his answers raised more concerns, for me at least, and I'm sure they did for many members of the other caucuses as well.

One of them that sticks in my mind as being potentially somewhat problematic is the minister alluded to the New West Partnership that –well, by golly, if a young farmer in Manitoba can't, you know, win an auction in Manitoba to run some cattle on a piece of property next to his or somewhere

October 11, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3601 within close proximity, well, he could just, you know, lease some land in Saskatchewan. I'm not sure that the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Eichler) grasps the concept that Saskatchewan isn't just around the corner. It's the next province over, that certainly, young farmers just starting out aren't going to have the wherewithal to load up their cattle and just shift to a different province. So that seems to me to be somewhat problematic in that they also may not have the wherewithal to win an auction.

The Minister of Agriculture , I'm led to believe, is an auctioneer by tr ade before he became a politician, so I think he understands the concept that the person that bids the most wins, which–the concern, of course, for us is that that opens up our Crown lands to the multinational corporations, to the big guys, if you will, Ma dam Speaker, that will preclude young Manitoba farmers having access to these lands. It may very well preclude a lot of Manitoba farmers, not necessarily just young ones, but it will make our Crown lands available only to the group that has the most money.

There's nothing in this bill that I can see that guarantees that a Manitoban gets any kind of access to these lands. Talked about in some of the things that he had to say that these leases would be renewable every 10 years, which, in a lot of ways, I gue ss, is a good thing.

The problem is, of course, again, that in 10 years, the big corporations will just continue to gobble up all the available land and continue to increase their ability to access Crown lands and thereby limit the competition, if you will , Madam Speaker, that the more that the big guys take control, the less the little guys will be able to survive and maybe that's what the minister's game plan is. * (15:30) Certainly, he's said he talked to a lot of agricultural special interest groups. There's one group that I noticed that he did omit. Maybe it was just an oversight on his part, maybe he did actually talk to them.

But I didn't hear him once say anything about consulting with the NFU, the National Farmers Union. Perhaps that's an oversight that as he's developing regulations, that he may wish to consult with that group, too, because they may actually have some concerns that the minister has missed. Certainly, I look forward to him at some point in time telling us that, oh no, no, no, by golly, I did consult with them. I don't see him, you know, really suggesting that, so I look forward to the minister actually doing that. We talked a little bit in the question and answers

section about notices, so that farmers in an area will get a notic e that some land is coming up for public auction. The minister said that he was certainly committed and –to making sure those notices go in local community newspapers, and, certainly, that's a little bit different take on things than what his Premier (Mr. P allister) has said, or what other ministers have said with some of the bills that they've put forward.

So I'm really looking forward to–in questions that we ask about some different bills –that this minister will stand with us and say that, no, absolutely, notices in local, community newspapers are vital for local people getting that information. And I look forward to the Minister of Agriculture telling the other ministers that that practice not only must continue, but he will work with his government to make sure they continue.

So I look forward to the Minister standing up and saying that, because certainly, we have concerns about any number of government notices that aren't necessarily going to be available like that. So I guess we'll find out –when do we have that committee? Later today? An Honourable Member: Yes. Mr. Lindsey: Later toda y, the Minister of Agriculture will be able to lift the shroud of mystery, if you will, and stand strongly with people, stand strongly with community newspapers. I'm sure that his caucus, you know, will stand with him when he does that too.

So let's make sure that that is exactly what the minister means today, and that's what the government means today and tomorrow, because sometimes what they say today isn't necessarily what they say tomorrow. So we need to make sure that the things that they say, they stand behind. The things that a minister of the Crown says has the support of the rest of his cauc us and, certainly, his Premier to make sure that those words are, in fact, held up and that these notices –not just these notices, but all government notices will remain in community newspapers.

One of the things in this bill that the Minister's put in there, some really lofty language that the purpose of community pastures is to support grazing and haying on a range lands in a manner that maintains and conserves the ecological integrity and natural biodiversity of the area. And I know my friend from Tyndall Park spoke somewhat about those things–and quite eloquently, I might add, yes.

3602 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 11, 2018 So the problem with waiting for regulations, Madam Speaker, is that they aren't necessarily done in an open and transparent manner. Lofty ideals are. Day -to-day, nitty -gritty details aren't, necessarily . The Lieutenant Governor-in-Council will pass those regulations and the rest of the world will only find out about them after they're in place. And only then will we find out that perhaps maybe the lofty ideal that the minister's alluded to in this act ma y in fact not be all that protected by regulation, and then, you know, how do we fix that?

Well, I guess a government that actually is concerned about the environment and the future and the future of farmers–the future of all of us –will fix that in a couple years. One of the questions that I have that, in an explanation, doesn't necessarily, in my mind, hold up, and that’s in

section 7.7(2) where the Lieutenant Governor-in-Council making regulations designate any of the following as community pastures: Cr own lands; lands that are subject to an agreement, giving the Crown the right to designate them as a community pasture. Now, the explanation is that before designating land that is privately owned, the municipality or federally, the Province, must have an agreement, but it doesn't really say that in what's been proposed here.

That's the explanation for it, but it would be nice if the explanation was actually what the act said, that before any Crown lands can be designated, there must be an agreement. So it's pretty ambiguous at this point, and again, waiting for regulations, as opposed to putting it in the act, allows governments of the day to somewhat change what those regulations mean and what those agreements may mean somewhere down the road, that–what is determined as being an agreement, how is the agreement arrived at? Is it the open consultation process? Is it an inquisition process that it's take-it-or-leave-it type agreement?

I mean, there's any number of ways of arriving at an agreement. Certainly, some of them work better than others, and, well, I guess it depends on which side of the agreement you're on, which ones of them might work better than others. So I would encourage the minister to maybe look at that and actually make sure that the e ntity that owns the land, controls the land, actually has the final say in what happens with the land, as opposed to potentially being just told that, here's the new agreement that you're going to live with.

I know my friend from Tyndall Park talked at length about how some of the First Nations communities and what responsibility the government will have when it comes to dealing with them. And, certainly, past governments –and this government in particular–haven't got a real strong history of proper consultation and arriving at agreements that work for all parties. In fact, Premier (Mr. Pallister) has a bit of a history of ripping up agreements that have been arrived at by certain groups. Certainly, we've seen that. Some of those things are before the courts now, as we speak.

And so when is an agreement an agreement and when isn't it? I guess it depends on– well, in this case, I guess it depends on when the Premier says it is. That's the history that we've seen so far with this government, is agreements t hat are negotiated with entities of the Crown aren't agreements until he puts his stamp on it, and if it's not something that he likes, well, then, he just says, no, see you in court.

That's not a very open and transparent way of doing business and something that we would expect better of from any government. * (15:40) So there's much, much room for this particular minister to really make sure that the lofty ideals that he put in paper in very vague terms, actually have the force of the regulation and have been arrived at, to take into account the concerns of all parties , not just some parties. And, certainly, when the minister listed some of the groups that he consulted with prior to developing this act, certainly, there are some very good groups in that listing.

And, certainly, some very good and fine people involved in those particular groups. But there's others that the minister should, you know, make sure that he's listened to what their concerns are and taken them into account as well. One of the other things that I see in the act that I'm not sure just how the minister sees this: 7.7(3) that first it says the minister is going to administer the community pastures. But then it goes on to say that that may enter into management agreements, in fact, contract out the minister's duties to somebody else.

Could be the Government of Canada, okay; could be a municipality, yes, okay, that's probably not a bad idea. The Council of a band is defined in the Indian Act. Yes, that makes pretty good sense. Non-profit organizations, yes, some real potential there. Wait a minute, wh at does (

e) mean? Any other person or group of persons.

October 11, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3603 So it started off with the lofty ideal and, okay, the Government of Canada, municipalities, First Nations groups that have the rights, non- profit organizations and now it's anybody else. So does the minister foresee contracting this out to, I don't know, multinational agribusiness groups? Does he foresee that the government, then, gets out of managing Crown lands altogether and it becomes a private enterprise? So it's words like that in acts and regulations that leave me concerned.

Certainly, in a different line of work I had when we were negotiating contracts, that things like that would've been called weasel words – and I'm not suggesting for a minute that that's what's taking place here. But just l eaving that kind of ambiguity in the act that says that the minister can contract it out to any other person, any other groups of persons, and we don't know who that is today?

It leaves me concerned that some of the groups, special interest groups, maybe t hat the minister's had consultation with, have a plan that they at the end of the day will be the ones that will be administering Crown lands, which should concern us all –should concern us all. I see the minister is shaking his head, but shaking his head now after he's put that kind of language in the act.

You know, certainly, when and if this ever gets to a committee, he can take that out, and perhaps, maybe, he should do that, or at the very least clarify at some point in time what he means by any other person or group of persons that will be in charge of administering, managing one or more community pastures. What does that mean? Why is it there? Why should it be there, and, perhaps, maybe, why it shouldn't be there.

So perhaps, maybe, the minister wi ll give that some thought and look at, maybe, cleaning this up before it gets to committee or at committee, or whichever the process is that is available for him to make an amendment and take that part out. Because it doesn't really have any real purpose b eing there unless there is something that we're not really seeing yet, which wouldn't be very open and transparent. One of the things captured in this act is an annual report. Perhaps one of the things –and maybe the minister would be open again to some amendments to the act.

It talks about a report on the use of designated community pastures in a year, what measures were taken– An Honourable Member: Seven-seven-six. Mr. Lindsey: Yes, that's the one.

So perhaps part of the report should say what all groups or individuals have won auctions or otherwise been able to take control of certain parts of Crown land so that there's an accurate record that's publicly available for everybody to see in this annual report of who all is getting awarded these, the use of t hese Crown lands so that the general public, people that are concerned, farmers that may in fact be concerned, perhaps opposition parties –perhaps even the member's own party, when they're next in opposition in a couple years, will want to know how this is panning out.

Were–what some of the things we're concerned about, were they legitimate fears? Have the big corporations taken the majority of the auctions as we fear they may? So perhaps maybe the minister can look at putting some more things in the act to make the act live up to the lofty ideal and some of the ideals that the minister's spoken about, about being open and transparent so that we're open and transparent up front. Those really, I guess, are the main issues that I have. The biggest concern–let me just reiterate that so that we're very clear.

This act may have–may have – the consequence of limiting Manitoba farmers' access to Crown lands. It may prevent Manitoba cattle producers from accessing Crown lands. It may open up our Crown lands strictly t o multinational corporations, and the minister's assurance that under the New West Partnership, well, a Manitoba farmer can just go and lease land somewhere else, there's really no guarantee at all that Manitoba's farmers are, in any way, shape or form, going to be respected. I guess that's probably the best word to use: to be respected as Manitoba farmers, as Manitoba producers, as Manitoba citizens.

There's nothing in here that protects them, which there used to be. I mean, the point system –was it perfect? Maybe not. But it did take into account proximity of the person applying for the use of that Crown land to their actual land so that a local farmer maybe got a few more points based on what he was going to do with that –he or she or they, as most family farms are, you know, co-owned by the family. This act takes that away. Certainly the big producers that the minister listed in his list of consultations are probably quite happy to be able to bid the price of land up to limit access to the small guys.

The other thing, I guess, is my friend from Tynda

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	41-3-76b
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	41st 3rd hansardpdf 76b.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	20d2bc423701d7dd6ddcc8400faf805826cb6bfc

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