1. Volume XL Wednesday Province of Newfoundland FORTIETH GENERAL ASSEMBLY . OF . NEWFOUNDLAND Fourth Session VERBATIM REPORT {Hansard) Speaker: Honourable P.J. McNicholas Number 51 8 June 1988

The House mel at 3:00p.m. MR. SPf(lKFR (McNicholas): 0 r d t::H' , p l o a s E! ! At this ti1m~ I 1.\Jould like to rulE! on tho po .l nt of p;n :t v .tl. eg e l"r .d s C:!d by the han. the Gove:1rnrne!nt House Leader on June 6th. The matters raised by the Government House Leader are serious nll.ega.t :ions and worthy of the Chair 1 s consideration. I have not ber:~n able to obtain a complE!te transcript of the discussion with the press in which the han.

Leader of the Opposition was r·eported to have-:~ said, and ·I quoi:e, 11 The SpE!aker has lost control of some member·s. 11 Since it would appear that thE! tape recording of that discussion has been destroyed, I must rely upon and take the tJJord of the Lee~der of the Opposition who said in this House on June 6, and :C quot8: 11 My recollection of it 11 - that is the isst.H~ -- 11 .i.s that lny i"t~~sponsr::~ IAidS 1 No, it. is not the SpeakE!r' 1 S fault. ll Ls t).i.rLual.ly ·i.mpo:>s.ible for him to control nJE!mbers of the rnajori .ty of Lhr~ HouSE!

IAJho t•Jant to behave in that way. 1 11 0 n the s t r e n g t h of t h o s e wo r d s , 1 ·must rul.r:~ t:hat a pr'imd faC'i.E:~ casE:~ of breach of privilege has not br:~en r:~stablished. However, I must remind all hon. members of this House that some of the parliamentary precedents quoted by the hon. Government House Leader bE!ar repeating.

I quote from Beauchesne, page 38, par·agraph number 117, subsection (1): 11 Reflections upon the char·acter· or actions of the Speaker may be punished as breaches of privilege. 11 Subsection (2): 11 The PrE!s'iding Offtcer, though E:~nti tl.E:~d on all occasions to be treated with the greatest attention and L2761 June 8, 1988 Vol XL respr:1ct by thE! individual ME:!rnbE!rs, bt,~cduse i.:I-H :! potJJer·, di.gn.i.ty, ·and honour of thE!

House alnE! · officially ernbod .i.ed .i.n his p(H'son. 1 ' On page 14-, paragraph 26 of Be a 1.1 c he s n e : 11 I t ·i s l h t::! d u t y of all Members to uphold at all times thr:1 authority of . the Chair, reflecting as it does the House ·.l ts e 1 f. 11 MR. WELLS: Mr . SpE!aker . MR. SPEAKER : fhe hon. the Leader of thE! Opposition . MR. WELLS: Mr·.

Speaker·, before dealing t.u:ith . the routinE! business of ·the day I want to draw the attention of hon. members of the House to the sudden pass.i .ng, on Monday of th:is week, of a very distinguishE!d forrnE!r p u b 1 i c ~; F.! i" v cHIt i. n L h :i s p r 0 v i n c e ' in the person of Min . GeorgE! ~'\Ia rr·e n, IAJho d i.ed s udcl E:! n l y on Monday afternoon. Mr. Warren served this Provin ce and lLs pc,~opl.e faithfully and IJJel.l for a great many years in the office of Deputy Minister of Public Works.

HE! subsequently be came M i. n is t E! r· o f Pub l.i c Wo r· k s for a very brief perJ.od, bu t resigned the~t position after an ~lection following in 1972. Mr. Speaker, I believe a11 membE!rS of this House acknot.~.lledge the contribution he made to the people of this Provincr:~ during a period of time when thE!re was gr ·eat bu'ilding necessary, and when the government was involved 'in extensive building of public services throughout this Province . He was responsible No. 51 personally (or overseeing largE!ly <.'l. great R2761

deal of this, and in that particular role he served this Province well. I would ask all members of the House if they would join in extending to Mr·. ~'llar·re n 1 s family the sincere sympathies of the House. DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker. MR . SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of l·leaH:h. DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, we CE!rtainly join IAJi th l:he l_eader· of the~~ Oppos ·i L: Lon in sending condolences to the family of Mr. George Warren. I knc-?.w the gentleman somewhat, after h·Ls yE:~c.u~s as a p1Jbl i.e ser·vctnt.

T. was not too familiar with his a c t l v .i U. e s , no 1: on a · per s on a 1 basis, when he was working for government, but one knew of hi1r1, obviously. I do recall that I mE:~t him one time:~ at Li tt'e Heart 1 s Ease where his son, I beJ.ieVE!, had a sma1l fish plant. He gave me great courtesies at the time of that visit, and we talked about it a number of times ·thereafter . It is sad thing to lose such an eminent servant of the people and we certainly join in sending condolences to the family, Statements by Ministers MR. RID[OUT: Mr. Spcclker. MR. SPr-.:AKER: The han. the Minister of Fisheries . MR.

RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, i·L has been the position of this government to promote and encourage the L2762 June 8, 1988 Vol XL secondary processing of our fish products herE! in this ProvinCE! :i.n order to create more · full-time jobs, improve the economic returns to our fishing industr·y, increase the level of industrtal · tE!ChnoJ.ogy and extend the operating season of many of our fishing faciJ.ities. This commitm~::~n-1: by gaVE!rnmr:~nt has been confirmed by the fact that my dE:~partment has spE!nt in exCE!SS c1f $2 million in the area of secondary processing over the past two years. M1~.

Speaker, I arn very pleased ·to announce today ctnother initiative taken by this goVE!rnrnent in an effort lo promote secondary processinig in this· Province. My deparl:rnr:~nl: hi.·'s r·ecently appl"OVE!d a grant of $25,000 to Greens Seufoocls Ltd. of Winterton, Trinity Bay to offset start-up costs associated with respect to the production and marketing of secondary s~lt fish products. Several new salt fish products hav~~ been deVE!lopr:~d by thE! Mar··ine Institute for the Canadian Sal.tfish Corporation, assisted by a $30,000 grant from my department. Greens Seafoods Ltd. have been seJ.ectE!d by thE!

Corporation to produce these new products. This company has an excellent track record and their staff have dE!VE!lopE!d an exper·tiSE! ln achieving top quality and excellent yields in both fresh and sa1l fish products. I am ~ery confidE!nt that tiTE! stron~J commitment clornonstr·ated by Gr·er::!nS Seafood Ltd., the Canadian Saltfish Corporctl.:1on and my department will result in a VE!ry successful seconda;"y pr·ocessl.ng operation. I am also p] eased to n.nnouncG 1:hdL bci:.IJJE!E:Hl thirty t.o forty I1E!lAJ jobs liJiJ.J. be creatE•d as a r·esult of lh .is opE!r'.;,tion. Mr.

SP.E:~aker. my dE!partrnent and No. 51 R2762

this governrn(-:!nt rerna:i.n f.ir·rn in our· commitment to fully develop the ·fishing ·.indus try of !:his Provoi.nce, and this commitment has been dernonstr·at<~d time and aga ln through our many initiatives in the areas of secondary processing and the increased utilization of our flshing resources. SOME HON. MEMBERS: He:1ar, he:~ar! MR. W. CARTER: Mr. Speake:~r . MR. SPEAKER : The hon. the member for TtAJillingate. MR. W. CARTER: Mr. Speaker, I thank the minister for givtng me a copy of his staterne!nt prior to . the House opening.

I must say, while I appreciate the initiative taken by the minister in making this rather small grant available for the secondary processing of salt fish I suppose it will make some contr:i.butlon t.o the cloveloprnenL of that very important resource ·- I th·ink tho mlnlstcr has loft an opening for me again to remind him and h.i.s colleagues thdi:. thet"e :i.s another case where $30,000, oin,Jes l(-?.d by Un:~ Ptnov ·ince, wlll be creating thirty or forty jobs de,Jeloping a pr·oduct WE! hdlJt:~ For which there is a very good rni'lrket.

OF course, lhaL must again drive home the ·fact, I suppose, that, :ln the case of cucumbers, lAJe haVE! $15 mi1lion to $20 miJ.lion being spent to prov:i .de not many more jobs, maybe two or· three timE!S as many jobs, but, proporU onate!ly, nothing near what money invested in thE! fishery can do for the economy of the Province. I am happy to Canadian Saltfish s<:~e that the Corporation is L2763 June 8, 1988 Vo 1 X I_ nolAJ tArldE!l1 Lng J l:s rnandcd.:P or broadE!ning its horizons.

I do not IAri.sh Lo put dotAm lh~) .irnporl::anc~~ of the Saltfish Corporation, b"'~cause whE•n .LL tAJcts folrs-1-. estab1-Lshed back in the late 1960s or early 1970s, ·Lt was bddly nE:~Gded. But 1 have altAJays had the irnpressJon that mHybs they should be broadening their scope and getting more involved i.n d mor·(~ d.LvN·sif ·.ied opE!ration.

I arn gJ.ad to see now that o b v .i. o u s l. y l:: hE:~ y i:l r· e dot n 9 j us t that, and I arn g1ad to SE!E! that l::he rn.iniste:~r· has rE:'cogniZE!cl th<'!ir· importance, I guess, and the par·t thE!Y can play in l:hE:1 dE~velopment of the salt fishery by making this very, ver·y small grant available to them. Mr. Speaker, I think this is another indication that the fishery is our futurE! in this Province. I lh.ink the salt fish industry has much · greater pot .:entoi.cJ.l lhan L•.Je have seen dE!Veloped in recent years in this Prov.lnce, and, T. beli.eve, to give a better balance to thE• fishery, M'r.

Sp~~aker·, tAle should rnaybE! pay more attention to the development of tho scJ.ll fish industry. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. FENirdiCK: Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Menihek . MR. FENWICK: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker . Just. a few comrnent.s, and some of the cornmE!nts the rninistE!r' has heard bE! fore. We appreciate the fact thcli: he is trylng lo develop the secondary processing of our fishing 1\Jo . S 1 1~2'763

industry. It is even more intE!resttng t:o see it bE:dng done with salt fish, which, of course, is a traditional product of the Province. But I think the minister should be at least honest t~.Jith us in this House and tE!ll us how he is going to continue on with this kind of policy after that crazy Mulroney/Reagan trade deal is put into place and we end up with a tremendous amount of countervails being imposed on us whenever we indulge in subsidies on our own industries. Mr. Speaker, what we have ls a situai:ion here where the minister is in l:hG last gasps of the ability to interfere with - SOME liON.

MEMBER~ : Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. LONG: All the experts are over there . A crowd of experts on free trade. MR. FENWICK: Mr. Speaker, unlike thE:~ LE!ader of the Official Opposition, whenever we are making effective comments IJJE! usually hear th-i.s chorus fr·om the people oVE!r there, and I usually consider i. l: a lribute to the significance of the arguments. I do not mind. But sornE:~tiiTIE!S it is very difficult to b(.:! heard, so I lAJO-uld appreciate your silencing them. SOME liON. MEMB E I~S : Oh, oh! MR. fENWICK: The fRc l is, Mr.

Speaker~ [ encourage the Minister of FlshE!ries to conl~Lnue on IAI.ith h:i. s development tAJor·k and make all thE! 9 r a n t s h (,~ c Ml t h .i. s y (,~ C:·\ r , b e c ct u s e L2764 June 8, 1988 Vol XL we know, once this trade deal comes l n , you tJJ·tl.l no t. be a b 1 E' to do it any more; we will not. be able to develop our own <-:~conomy. You know it, I know it, and everybody el se knows it. So do it now, because you will not do it next year. MR . LONG : Hear, hear! MR. BUTT: Mr·. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. l:hc:! M:LnLsl: E!r oF Culture, Recreation and Youth. MR. BUTT: Thank you, Mr . Speaker .

I IJ..Jould J.j kE:~ to provide hon. membE!r's IJJ:i .th r.~n t.ipdd.'h~ oF thE:~ parks privatE! sector initiaU.VE! announced 1n this House just over one month ago. The closing datE! for applications u n d (;! r the program IJJi.'l s M i\1. y 3 l , and I am happy to say the responSE! to this initiative was just overwhelmj _ng, with 96 applj _cations received. With most of the applicants proposing several projects in all or some of our provincial parks, the actual number of projects proposed is in the thousands.

It is obvious that many p(,H'SOI'lS, companJ.es and groups have a dE!sire to hE!lp irnpr·ovE! thE! quRl :ity of servi.cE:~ and Facil :it'.ies in our provincial parks. ~-.Je rc~cE:'.ived pr·opos<:'tl s cov(;!r'ing all 75 provincial parks, encornpassj n~J a widc --rango of projects. including Fish saJ.es, retaiJ. oull.o-J:.s, <:'quoi.prnenl. : i~(Hltal s , gift shops, laundry services, tours, babys:i. Lt·i.ng sc~i"V i.ces, shOIAJE!I"S. minature golf, craft sales, bus SE!rv .lce, cabin dE!VE!l.opment, walE!r No. 51 R2'764-

slide:1s, touris-t at ·l~.ractions ~nd accommodations, wading pools, and horseback riding, just Lo natne a few. A n y propos a 1 I~J h i c h l s i. n com pat :i. b 1 e IAiith the park in question, of COlH'SC:1, l.o.J.i.ll bC:1 rej ecb~d. If 'i.t is strictly an environme!ntal type J::lcH'k, IAJe IAJOI.Ild not 1.\Jclnt i:O hi:lVf~ those other attractions in there to s p o ll 1·:. he o in i. g .i. n d 1 .i. n l 1':1 n i.: o F the pr.tr k.

Thr:1 by applications are a committee undr:H' of revlE~w senior government officials representing three departments; Finance, Development and Tourism a~d, of course, Culture, Recreation and Youth. Applicants will br:1 informed whether their proposals have been accepted or rejected, within the next couple of weeks. Thank you. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. HISCOCK: Mr. Speaker ~ MR. SPEAKER : The hon. the member for Eagle River. MR. HISCOCK : I thank the m~lnister· For the copy oF _ hls sli3.lC:1ment. T.n look i.ng at the statement, we have some questions .

Hopefully, the minish1r will provide us t~,dth· an updatE:1 on thr:1se proposaJ.s ·in the:1 Fall. One question is have is tJJho is going to be li.abh1 if sornebody is injured while using those facilities which ar·e going to put in the parks, the Pr·ovince or ·the companies? Also, Mr. Speaker, WE! would likE! to know the written crit.er ·ia for the acceptance of these L2765 JunE! 8, 1988 Vol XL pr·oposals? L'llhat makes proposal 1 A 1 acceptable and proposal 1 B 1 not acceptable, if they ·are similar in nature?

Another· t.:h:Lng IJJe i::tr'e also concerned with, now that thE!SE! dppl"i.ci:lt"i.ons Clln{~ comi .ng .in and being accepted, is will the governrnent bo g1uing grants to these companies who arE! gcdng to b~::1 getl:i.ng i.nto E~quoipmE!nt r-~::~ntals, gift shops, J.aundry servi.ces, Ed:c.? A n o t h (:!1~ t h .i n g l h <.·l t :i. ~; of c o n c E! r· n to the public generally is whether the successful applicants were privy to prior information on this. We were pleaSE!d the extension was given. Anything which creates E!Xtra jobs in this ProvinCE!, Mtn.

Speaker, this side suppor·ts, and we hope the minister will table the crited .a used to determine the successful applicants. this government has itself on the rustic Mr. SpE!a k E!r, aliAJCIYS prided nature:' of our Lue IAJi .lJ. not multi-amusement parks. HopefulJ.y, turn them into centE!rS . We support anything which will :i. m p r· o tJ e t h r~ q u d l. .i. t y of 1 :i. FE' for our people in tourism. We hope l:h ·"i.s gotJE:1rnmc->.nl.: helps rnun"ic"i.pal governments get into more parks, clnd l:o look c.~ftc: 'r' the environment.

We welcome the s t a t e 1n E! n 1: , M r· . ~3 p (~ a k c~ r , a n d 1.1.1 e hope the minister will, in due ti.me, table the IAwitten requirements on which these projects are be ing accepted. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. MR. LONG: Mr . Spe:~aker. MR . SPEAKER: The hon . 'the:~ member for St. John 1 s East. No. 51 R2765

MR. LONG: Mr. Speakc:~r, it is notJJ Jurw 8, and tl1e minister p1nomis.;;1s in this announcement that perhaps in a couple of weeks they will have a decision as to which proposals have been accepted or rejected. I would suggest not only to the minister but to the rest of the government members over there, that this program is already proving itself to be a failure. The ahsolute absence of any information - the minister laughs .

I am sure th~ minister is having fun dealing l.!ri.th proposals for wi J.d and zany ideas for actiwities Fr·om all over the Province, but I would .suggE!St I: hat L!Jhat h(:1 has dC:1monsi:ra +:(:1cl agaJn today is a total inability to administer th is program. The In 1':1 h a s be e n no c J. e i:l r· c r :i. t e r .i. i:'l laid out.

The minister is hopt ng lo have something in place for the month of July, but there is no ind.i.cation whclhE:1r the minister· and the:1 dE:1partment have a system in place l:o monitor the imple~entation with respect to some of the issues of liability and legal questions which might be r·aisE:'d. There is also a real concern about the protection of the parks and the cleanliness - who -.is going to pick up after these concessions are put in place in the parks?

I would also say to the minister that :it s B(:1ms to me:1, in the absence of any cohE !re ·nt program - thE! mini. s l:er has not brought forward a clear program ·- he aJ.so seE:1ms to forgE!t thai: l::hc'! par·ks in this Province are public parks and, as such, are the responsibility of goVE!rnmnent, for the maintenance and provision of s~:!rvices and so on.

The ministe1n s E! c~ m s l: o t h .i. n k t h a '1: '1: h C:1 p i:\ in I< !> o f this PrQvince are going to be L2'76(j Jurw 3, 1988 Vol X I_ turned over to the private SE!Ctor c:lnd he, dS rn'i.nJ.st~)r, , ... r.i.l.l. have a lot less to worry about in dealing w·i.th all the Surnrne:1r acl: :.iv.it'.iE!S. Mr. Speaker, the program '.is clearly goi .ng notJ.Jhere, and the minister has confinrned it. in his statement today. MR. MATTHEWS : Mr . Speaker . MR . SPEAKER: The han. the;! Mtnisi:et" of CarE!er Development and Advanced Studies. MR . MATTHEWS : Mr .

Sp(:1CI!< C:!r·, I am pleas~H:l to announce today thE! approvaJ. o·f another· 11.7 projE!Ct~; und(:.H' thE! Private Sector EmpJ.oyment Program. Th ese projects 'i.nvolV E! a provincial contribution of $1J . l G , 9 '1-3 , o rn pl. o y :i. n g lll· 2 c:~ rn p 1 o y e (;! s and $99, 319, employing anothE•r 81 stud en l. !> . Mr . Speak0r, the total funds allocated to date, under the Private Socto~ Employment Program, amounts to approximately $5.1 million . As I advi.sEu:l pr·eviously, t.:h'.is program has been extremely well received by the private sector.

We have received more than 1600 applications to dat E! and rnore are arriving at our offices daily. The jobs which have bE!en assist.E•cl thr·ough this progr·arn, Mr. Sp,~akE!r, arE! spread throughout all sC:~ctions of our economy. I l: is important to note as tAJell that rnany of thE! jobs created do '.in fact provide valuable training. We takE! grE!at p r-i . d e cl n d s a t l s fa c t i o n , M r . Speaker, in knowing that this I:Jni:l .i.n ·i.ng, cornb:i.nlO!d tAli .l:h the I.AJOr'k experience, will contribute very posJ.l:i.ve 'ly Lo Lhr:• futur'E! er11ployability of the participants. No. S 1 1~2'766

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. DECKER: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for the Strait of Belle Isle. MR. DECKER: Mi~. SpN'IkE!r, thr::! han. m i.n.i.s ·Ler· h<:b be(~n knot.~.m to criticizr::1 me because I r.un, Jn h.i .s IAJords, the fJr·st one to criticize this pr·ogram. Not.u, I am flatt(~r121d L:he m:i.n'LshH' should feel that way, and I only wish I could take Full cr(:'d"it for b(:dng the only one to negatively criticize this progrRm. Fortunately, I suppose, other people around the Province are realizing just how bad this program can potentially be.

I would like to be able to t~ke credit for being the first critic. I would run to l:.ake credit For it but, unfortunately, I cannot take full claim for doing that. I have been saying, and I will continue to say, that' there is something wrong with an economy in a free enterpl"ise system IAJhen the gover·nrnent rnus t pay the pr·ivai:e sector in order to create jobs. Not.u, there has Lo bf~ som(~th:i.ng wrong when that happens. SOME HON. MEMB C: R~ 3: Oh, oh! MR. SPFAKF.R: Order, pleetse! MR. DECKER: one would assume, and this to lhe hon. Development (Mr.

I would tell Minister of Barrett) especially - I hope he is private listening - that in L2'767 June 8, 1988 Vol XL enterprise, Mr. Speaker - MR. BARRETT: (Inaudible). MR. DECKER: I !.uouJ.d lib~ the M:in:i.s l.:E!r of Development to listen, because thJs Js C\ valid po:i.nt. In capitalism, the privatE! sr::'ctor s h o u J. d be p d y :i. n g l he go v (o' r n rn en t . This government has the economy in such a mess they h~vs to pay private enterprise, a total I" e v (,1 r s R .l o f 1:. h c p i" i tJ R i: e e n l:: e r· p r i s e system. MR. BARRETT: I not:Lcr:'d it t.uas oki:-tY L>Jhen TrudE!aU ( i naudib1e) .

MR. SPEAKER: Order, plr::1ase! MR. DECKER : I notice, Mr. SpeakE!r', I haVE! h:i.t a nerve. I would like leave to go on, but obviously I arn not going t.o gr::1 ·l: il: . MR. LONG: Mr·. ~peak r:1r . MR . SPEAKER : The han. the member for St. John 1 s r::ast. MR. LONG : Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Spc,'lkE!r, L\JC, ·i.n thi.s party, honestly have no pl"oblern with the E!ff"orl:~; by gou(:!r'ntn(~nt to ass·.ist with dE!veloprnent of lhe small bus·Lness communJty.

I know, fr·om my own experiE!nce in ·talking tAJith business people in my district, that a program such as this onE! is VE!ry irnporl:ant. lo maintaining smaJ.l operations, esped.aJ.J.y to help thr:1m through cr·itical times, when they ·are not able to put the l\lo. 51 R276'7

monies out to hire people . With that said, I L~JouJd still say the c\nnounccmE:~nt~; the min:i.st:::~in . ··.Ls bringing in on a regular basis are becoming, frankly, quito todious. After stating rny own support for the progr<-lm, I as b:~d for mor·e information so that we would be better able to do an analysis of whether the program is meeting any clear obj E!Ctives or· not. I tJJould say to the minister, as I did to the previous minister in his Ministerial St. a tE!fnent, therE! is not a coherent program with clearly defined goals and objectivE:~s.

What tAle have:! ~H:lre :is an employment program based on a first-come first-served basis, in which the minister pays lip service to a train:lng elernE~nt and to hiring students, but ·there is no clear set of objectives for this program. I f t h e m i n i s I: e r c i:\1'1 n o t p r o v t d e 1 1 s with the kind of information LAJe have beon f.ls!dng foi'', T tJ.IOI.Ild ask hjm to t"efrain from corning in with Lhe t~lJ.y sh<-:~cls . l"h:::~y i:H'8 quit<:' useless to us, but I am sure they might sc:lr·vc some poliL:i.cal purpose for the mini9ter and the governmE!nt. Thank you, Mr. Speai<E:~r . Oral Questions MR.

EFFORD : Mr. SpeakE:~r . MR. SPEAKER : The han. the member for Port de Grave. MR. EFFORD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . Mr. Spei3.ker, ovE:~r the past several LAJceks i.n llris ProtJJ.ncc tJJ(~ i'li'\tJe all L2768 June 8, 1988 Vol XL heard the concerns about the heall:.h c;u·r~ sysi:ent r.•tnd IAJhal': aff(:!CL i t i s h a v i n g on pat i E! nt s and . l: he f)(:! 0 p J. E! 0 f 1.: h i S P r 0 V .i. n c E• . L d S t: E!Vening the LeadE!r of lhE! Oppos'l.ti.on, mysc :<lF and the MHA fot ~ Stephenville (Mr. K. Aylward) - MR . WARREN: And the han. th E:~ member For Menihek. MR. EFFORD: and lhe Leadc.:!r' of thE!

NDP (MI~. Fenwick) were invitE!d to thE! auditorium of th<:~ Health Sciences Centre to hear the concerns of the staff about the deteriorating hE!al th care systE!m :.i.n thE• Prouince. I must say, Mr. Speaker, LAJe heard some frightE !ning 1: hi n g s . T. tJJo u 1 d 1. .i k e to as k t he Minister of Health (Dr. Collins) why neither he nor any oF his representatives, who also had inv ·LLat·ions, saw flL to attend that meeting? DR. COLLINS : Mr . Speaker . MR. SPEAKER : The hon. t:he Minis ler· of H<:'aH :h. DR. COLLINS: Mr.

Speaker, the managE!rrtE!nt at thE· Health Sciences Complex is frequently in touch with the depart.mE!nt on r.HlY :issuc,~s that involVE! the instituU.on and stafF and so on. Sirnilar·ly the dirE!Ctor, the pE·rson in char'gE! of that institution, tAJas Jn touch u.lith our department: this rn.ornjng informing us of the discussions that went on there. My und( "!rstand-i.ng :is t.:hc:·\t this tJ.Jas a meeting between the workers and the manage:'ment of !.:he institution .

Now I understand thi:'tl: some of HlC! t.\Jori<EH·~; "i.nvit:ed somE:~ others who ai"E:~ not workc::!rS to go cilong, and I see no problem No. 51 R2768

with that. But essentially it was a meeting to discuss matters between staff and management, that was the object of the meeting, and I believe that object was achieved and management was glad to hear from the staff and their points of views. So I LIJOUJ.d thi.nk :it WdS i'l good 'exercise and we have had a rE!port on it already and we will probably gE!t a fuller r·eport as time goes on . MR. F.:FFORD: A supplementary, Mr . Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: A supplemeni:Rry, t:he han. ·thE:~ member for Port de Grave . MR . EFFORD: Mr.

Speaker, what the Minister of Health just said is not correct, not om1 word of it is correct. It is totally wrong, Mr. Speaker. An invitation was sent, was hand delivered to the minister and the Premier of this Province. MR. SPEAKER : 0 r de r , p 1 e as e !. MR.

EFFORD: I ask the Minjster of Health, if he was in touch with management this morning concerning the problems that were discussed at the Health ScienCE!S Centre, is he cUAii'U~e thcll. i't r·r~coni: lrkHlagemonl: report stated very clearly that F o;~ t:IA.Je nty ·S (~ v (;! n Ot.tl. : or t:h :i.l~ty day s the s t a f f wa s s ho rt. at the h o s p :i. t a J. , a 11 d that d. p a l: ·i.e n l: Wd s pr ep ped five times For the operdti.ng ro ()m and each t.i. me the op erat io n was cancelle d? And many, many other horrendous stories and co ncern s were aired last ni.ght publicly by nur·ses and X-ray technjcians.

Is the rnin:lst.t:'r aiJ.JcH'e that those concerns L2769 JunE! 8, 1988 Vol XL IJ.Jf:H'~:! E!Xpr·esst:1d J.ast rl'ight at UlE! mee ·ting? ' DR. COLLINS : Mr. Speaker. MR . SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Health . DR. COLLINS: Ml~ . Speak er, in regard to the op en] .ng re rnar·ks of t.he hon. memb er, he gave the impression tha t 1 had ctn invitation hand dt:1livered to rnf:'. I do not knoiJJ whore his ·lnformati.on carne from but that is not corrt:1ct . I did nol recoiv0 a hcind delivered or any other type of information, that is thclt po·i.nL . On the other point, if there is a specific instance that the han .

TTlE:~mber wants me to chE!Ck out, and he gives me the name of that person who is supposed to have had an undue delay in treatment - I do not know if it is true or not - 1 will certainly, if I have some informatJ.on to go on, check that out .and see if I can get the ·rights of the matter. In regard to the running of the hospital, c~s I sc.~y.

IAJB ar·r:! in frequent contact with management. ·rhoy arc very alert to keep us informed of everything that is going on there and I am quito sure I will get an authoritative report .i.n rnol"(~ det .<.·l.ll thi :ln I hi:-llJ~:! nOIAJ oF that mE!eting as l:he next: f.(;!LIJ days go by . MR. FFFORD : Mr. Speaker, a final supplementary . MR. SPEAKER: A f i n a l s 1.1 p p 1 em c,1 n tr:u· y , HH-'! h o n . thE! mE!mbE!r for Port .dE! GraVE!. MR. EFFORD : Mr. ~ip(c1akE!r', thE:~ r"l:i n is t:c:~ r of No. 51 R2769

Heal. 1:: h ~; u r e l y .L s this off as just exercise. The hospital d~~s~~rve MR . SPEAKFR: Or·cler, ploctse:~! MR. ErFORD: not going to pul another political peopl( ~ or thi~; morE! attention. Mr. Speaker, the invitation was extended lo the-:! governmr::~n+.: of l::his Province to have somebody repre:~sent il:: at this mec-)t"i.ng. My question: Will the minister, because these people are in the profession of providing health care to the people of this Province have expressed pubJicly hundrE!dS of concEH'ns that are frightening, form a Select Committee of this House to investigate these matters?

These are not isolal::ed incidents, not one or two but hundreds? Will the minister form a Select Committee of this House to investigate the situation that prevctils ln l::he healthcare system of our Province? SOME HOI\J. MEMB F.: 1~5 : Hear, hear! MR . SPfAKER : The hon. the Minister of l·leEIH:h . DR. COLUI\JS : Ml". Spe:~aker·, J have no intention of put.t-i.ng in place a Sel.E!Cl CommittE!e to go up to see if the managemE!nt of the:~ H~~all::h SciencE:~s Complex are doing their job or not.

The Health Sciences Complex is run by a Board or GOVE!rnors. cit"iZC'!I1S of this Province who give their trrne of their otAHl free tAiill and without remuneration, and it is run by extr(-:!mel.y competent, hi.ghl.y trained, profession people. I have no int.c~~nt .ion of undeJ"mining any confidence that might be expressed in their operation. They are doing an excellent job up L2'/70 June B, 19813 Uol. XI . thr:!rS <.-J.nd a Select : Cornrn·i .l::LC:H~ of the sort that the hon. mE!mbE!r is sugges-t .. Jng would l:w an insult l::o the people who run that ·i.nst:L't.:utJon 11p l::hei"e. I hr!\VO no such intention.

And, as I say, t.~Je are !u~pt J.nfo;"med on a vr:H'Y cl.E!ar and opportune basis as t:o any concE:~rns that managl':'rrtEHl 'l: hd.ve, and they relate to us any concerns that the staff rela te to them. There is ongoing discussion of thes.r::~ matb:'rs and l.IH:~ are assisting wherever we can. which is no small measure. They are doing an extremely good job. SOME HON. MEMBERS : H~~ar, hear! MR. K. AYLWARD : Mr. SpeakE!r . MR. SPEAKER : The hon. the ITIE!mbE! r' for StephE!nville . MR . K. AYLWARD: !"hank yo11, Mr. Speakc'!r . I have a question for the Minister of llcaJ.l :h .

T I~JOtJl.cl suggPs 1.: t:o him that it. is an insult to the people oi- this Pr'OtJ :Lncc~ t.:hc~ IAklY t:hC:' Health Sciences Centre has to bE! o p e r a t c~ d IAJ'i. l h t h e f u n d :i. n g t. h a t:. i s being given by thj s ProvincE!. Could he:1 confinn to this HouSE!, or tE!ll us, is he aware of situations occuring at the Heall::h Sciences CornpJ.ex in relation to nurses 1..uho are completely overworked becau se the institution is understaf fed, mostly on the,~ eVE!ITing shifts but also during the day?

Is he aJ.so awarE:1 thc-ll: these nur ses and so on are making representations and arE! saying to l::he administrat:ion that it is becoming unsafe, for both the pdt.:i~ :!nl::s and l::h~ :! l.o~JorkE!rs, l:o work in that institution? Is he at..ui'lre of those concC'!r·ns · and hr:'1Ve they been brought to his attention? ~-lo . !) I [~2770

MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Health . DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, I have heard some irresponsible comments in this House over the years, but that, in my view, is one of -the most ir·responsiblE! comments I have e:wer heard in -this House. The adrnin .istr·ation have never told us il: is unsafe -to opE!rate that insU.tut.ion, c!!ncl for Lhe han. mE!mber to suggest that, to bring l:hat before the peoplG of this Province in the fashion he has done, l.u:ithout br~ckJng i.i: 11p I.A.J:i .th any evidence, whatsoever, is totally irre sponsible and he should be ashamed of himself. MR. K.

AYLWARD: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the han. the member for Stephenville . MR. K. AYLWARD : Mr. Speaker, aJ.l he had to do was attend the meeting last night and he wo u J. d h a v E! s e e n t he e v i d en c e , no problem at all. I IAJant:. to ask him, again, will he investigate matters that h< :~ve be:~en br·ought to our attE!ntion, on this side of the Houst:', about concern s from nurses, nursing assist:ants and other staff p eo p 1 (:~?

ThE! y c.1 r E! u n d c;! r s t .:1 f f t'! d i. n mos t positions over there and f'indi .ng .Ll ~ Vl~r·y d.i.f.fi .cuJ.I :. to Ci.~rlny out their duties. Will he under·l:i:~kc to investigate this mat-tE; r a(' -· these are serious c o n r: e r n s t h a 1.: h a

t) e b e e n b r· o 1.1 g h t I: o the attPntion of the PE!Oplc~ in the "i. n ~' 1:. i L u 'L .i. o n Oppo sition? by b r· i n g .L n g <'1ncl also to i:he We are doing our duty it to your attention . SOME liON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! L2771 JunE! 8, 1988 VoJ. XL MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minist.E!r of Health . DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speakc-:'!r, the hon . member must be a little bit deaf. I have already sa'id that.: 1.1.Je are in da-:i.ly contact with the Health Sciences Centre and we get the absolute facts.

We do not get garbled Facts, we do not gE!i : the fact s a little btt coJ.oured, shal1 IAJE! say, 1.1.1 e d o no t g e t ~.: h (:~ m l:. h i r d --h a n d , o r whateVE!r, WE~ get thE! straight · facts ln the department on an aJ.most daily basis from the people 1.1.1ho k noLu the ·i. ns 1.: 'i. tution . Th e:! I"E! is no need to investigate. We k no 1.1.1 1.1.1 h r.'1 L i. s g o · i. n g on , a n d 1:: h e y know that we know what is going on. MR. K. AYI .. WARD : A supplementary. MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary . MR. K. AYLWARD: I would like to go to the Minister of Labour, (Mr. Blanchard), Mtn.

Speaker, since obviou sly the Minister of Health does not think there is a problem. Would ~he Minister of Labour undertake to investigate concerns that have been brought to our attE!ntj_on by l:h( ~ nur ·s c,~s, nurs:Lng assistants and other professions over there? MR. REID: Thd tlsthe s c:lrrt(:! ques lion . MR . EFFORD: No! MR. K. AYLWARD: T 1:1 rn c1 s ld n g Uw M i n .i s bn· of Labour, Mr· . Speaker, LIJould he ·intJest.:i.gal:t;' thJ :; rnc:-1-t· .t E!r? Thc: !S E! very serious concerns brought to our at tenti on at l.a s 1':. night 1 s mE!E!ting, one to which L~JE!, ·Uw Pronri.c,~r· of th(~ PtnovinC E!

Oln his No . 51 R27'71

representative were invited. Would he undertake to do that? MR. SPEAKER : The hon. the Minister of Labour . MR. IH.ANCI·IARO: Mr. ~:3pc~ake:n·, I do no 1.: IAJan'l: to answer a question by asking a qt~estion, bul: . I tAJottJ.d li.ke to knotJ.J tAJhat it. is the hon. membE!r is ask:.i.ng me to -Lnvcsl·:igct"lE!? Is i.t a labour standards matter? Is it a layoFF? WhEtl :. i.s it? Th('!I"C:~ is no question in it for me. MR. LONG: rJJr. Spe:~aker . MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for St. John's East. MR. LONG: Mr. SpeakE!r, I haVE! a question for the Minister oF Career Development and Advanced StudiE:~s (Mr.

Mal :thews). It h,"s to clo tAlit:.h the recr~~nt announcement: of the number of courses that will be dropped ~t the Cabot Institute, not far from Confe:~cle:~rctt.i .. on Bu·Llcl Lng.

In t;Jc,~JAJ of the fact that in a report produced for· the clep;u·l:tnQnt l.dst January there were seventeen c o u r s e s i. d e:~ n t -:i. f ·L E~ cl f o r· 1.: r 21 n s F E! r· +: o an o U1 '"! r i n s t i t u t i on , none of 1..11 hi c h h etlJC:! b e e n 1.: r tHl s f e r· r· e cl , T a s k i: h e Minister of Career Development and Advanced Sl·:uc:li.es has he recc~:lved :in the last numbe1n of months any represen tation From government rnernbers, somE! of whom are CabinE!t ministers who represent di.st~icts in thE! City of St.

John's, to stop the cancc'!llation of thesE: ~ pr·oqrarns at the Cabot Institute? MR . MATTHEWS : Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: The ~on . the Minister of Career L2772 JurH~ !l, 19B8 Vol XL Development ~nd Advanced Studies . MR. MATTHEWS: r"lr-. Spcakc,~r I l:hu pr·:i.rni;uny mandatE! of the Cabot Institute is the cleJ. i.uer:y of diplo1na J.E>~;el appl.ied arts and technology programs. We hc:·we gone thr•otlgh n~s l:r·uc l::tu·~i.ng of our post -secondary · education s ysb~rn ·i.n the Pr•ot;ince. We have three provincial institutes with mandates, IAJB hatJE! F·:i.vE:!

COiriiTIUIT.i l:y colleges with mandatE!S, and Lt.Je hctve the University wi~h a mandate. And what tAle SE'E! happening, in fac 1::, Mr·. SpeakE!r, is what we ex pee ted from thE! restructuring of our post-secondaJ"Y educa.U.on systE!Tn. The answc-:Jr to l::he second par·t of the hon. gentleman's question is yes, th(~~ rn(:Hnbe:n·s for St. John's consistently discuss happE!nings at the Cabot, the Marine Institute and the University on a regular ba!ds. MR. LONG : A supplementary, Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER : r:l ~"1pplernen l:ar·y, the:~ bon . UH =! member For St. John's East. MR .

LONG : T l.:hank l:he hon . m·i.n:i.st:E~r For· his answer. I assume that to mean the rnernber·s for l::h(:~ cLi:y also oppo s ~'d the cancellation of these cotu·ses. My suppl~~rnent-.:ary, Mr.

SpE:~aker, to the min] stE!r is: Is he ~ atAJar·c~ of thett t.~.lith t:he cuts in courses at the Cabot Institute the rntnist(:~r· has vio1<-.li.:t:•d his otAJn stated principJ.es with the reorganizettion of the post-secondary system, such that !::herE! ar·e notAl cotu·ses l::hat are not offered anytAJhere on the AvaJ.on · and a s a r· E~ s u l t y o u n q p eo p 1 c.:. d o no t have access to publicly funded business educRtion courses, word processing specialist coursE!S, and 1\Jo. S 1. r~27'72

others, in violation minis l:c~r·' s own c0111mi l:ment guidelinE!S? MR. MATTHEWS: Mr·. Speaker . MR . SPEAKER: of the to these The han. the Minister of Career Development and Advanced Studies. MR. MATTHEWS: Mr. Speaker. what the han. gentleman is saying is not completely accurate . There are courses offered ].n th(,~ VC\ri.ous t'E:'gions of the ProvinCE!. We arr:~ ·l:ryi.ng to makE~ cour·sE~s CllJc:-\:il.able to the residents and students of the Province regardless of whore th(,~y live . And t.uhat thE! hon. gentJ.e111an is say:i.ng Js not accurclte.

Any particular course i. n t!Ti. s P r o u i. n c e:~ .i. s o f f t:~ r e d ,:, t cl. number· of carupuses around the Prouince. l'here is only one course I know of that we are gearing up i:o opr:~ral·:e "i.n just l:he Stephr:~nvilJ.e ar·ea, that of l:.he heavy equipment operator, and we are doing that because that is a spec.ializr:~d cen tr·e:~ t.uith thE! pr·o~JC:!r resources to do so. But any of the ot~er courses that the hon. gentleman has refer-red to are offered at. a number· of locations around the Province. MR. LONG: A final supplementary, Mr . Speaker. MR. SPfAKF.R: A final supplementary . MR. LONG: Mr .

Spt,~ctb:!l~. T ask Uw rni.nj .s l.E!t' a finetl supplE!ITWntary as a rnE·mber who .i.s tH'ry comrni.LU'd to l:he distT:ict of St. John's East and t h e f.H' t} a ·1.: "' k c,'I'J i n b y ~3 t-. . J o h n ' :; .

I ask thr:~ minister· if in vieuJ of thu of~fi .c-.i.al op(:!n'i.ng on Fr··i.clc:'tY .or t.he Avalon Commun:ity Collr:~ge, will L2'/73 June~ 8, '1988 Vol XL he give a commit to transfE!r sornE! of the courses that hi.'lve beE!n cut from the Cabot Institute to .the Avalon Cornmunlt:y College, and gi.ve a clear signal that this govern~ent is not show:ing favouritism to private schools and private (,~ducator·s, .friends of the Tory Government who are just waiting to pick up courses that have been dropped ft-·om public tnst:.itut.ions? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Career Development C\nd Advancsd Studies.

MR. _MATTH F.WS: Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman, i'lgai.n, ·i.s wr'ong on onE! count, "i.n thclt the official opening of the {)tJi'IJ.on COI[IJnl.ln:i.ty Col.J.ege h10k place a ~ouple of weeks ago in C ,;n· b o n e r.l. r . T. g 11 e s s t: h e h o n . gentleman was not aware of that. Mr. SpeakE!r, what is happening ls c o 1.1 r s e s a ,~ e b (:! i n g . of f E! r· (' d at various regions, thE! community c o 11 E:~ g e:1 c d m p u s e s a r· o u n d t he Province . What we see at th~ C a b o ·l I n s t t l: u 1: e , .i n (:1 s s e n c e • f"' r .

SpeakE!r, is a total restructuring, reorgc:~n:ization. so that thE!Y JTIE!et their new mandate. The decisions ·that have been made arE! baSE!d on the demand or lack of dr:~rnand for· programs; progr ams where the jo b outlook, the market outlook, for graduates is unfavour able; the percentage of graduates finding employm ent is unfavourable ; duplications of programs wi thj n ·the systew, Mr .

Spec:1ke r·, wl1ere they are offered all over the Prou lnc o and we arc turn in g out graduates from programs who cannot F:i.ncl employment:. iJ,Jhc.d.: IJ.Je ar·e doirig with our new reorganized sys·l:ern :is trying t.o pl"epar'E! gr·aduates for future job mr.~rkE•ts IAJhE:~r·E~ i.:h(~y di"C:~ c~rnpJoyclblE!. No . 51 1~2'773

Space requirements, Mr. Speaker: Thr:~ Cabot Institute is geari.ng up for tw~~ and three year diploma lE!VC:~l appl.lE!cl c:tr "l:s and tE!Chnology programs. That is where we are lAd t h i. t , rJt r· . S p e a k e r , a n d I t: h i. n k the:~ h.on. gentleman, if he did a chr:~ck of l.o~Jhat i.s happr:~ning ar 'OIInd the Province in post-secondary ediiC<:li:i .on, l.4J011ld FJ.nd that rnos t of Uw couJ"ses arr:~ offr:~red, somE! of thern dt Five cetrnpliSe~;, o l:hE!r's 8t t1..1.1elvE!, and most of thE~ courses. Mr.

Spec:lkf~r. r.~r·e offr:~rt:~d di:. fiftr:~en OJ" sixter:~n out of Sf~ve:~ntr~E!n or eighb :!en cctrnpuSE!S . T do not think that is too bad, Mr. Speakc:~r. MR. WELLS: Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: The han . the Leader of the Opposition . MR . WELLS : Mr. Speaker·, I haVE ! a question for the hon. the,, Mi.niste:~r of Hr:~i.'llth. I attended that meeting last night. I was i.rllJ i ted dS f:he:~ Leader of the Liberal Party to attend and bring oth8r r·epresentative:~s. The Leader of Uw 1\JDP 1.1.Jas intri.h'!d. and, I am infol"med but I do not knoL.v 1..1.1i th c e r t ''~ :i. n t 1J , 1.: h a 1·.

I: h C'' h o n .- t h ~~ Pr·ern:ir:~r was invited to attend and b r· i. n 9 t: h C'! M "i. n J s l G i' o f I I e R l. t. h o r' othe1" rc-:~prr:~ s c,~nt.ati v E:~ s . It 1..1.1a s not <:l meet ing between staff and management . MR. SPEAKER : Order, please! The hon . rrH:•mbE!r is making a speE!Ch and is not directing a question. MR. WELLS: I do want to lay the foundation, Mr·. Speaker·. L2771J. JUnE! B, l9 BB · lJol XL It was a meeting to inform members o·F th.ls House, on · both sides. of the dire circumstancE·s · in which people inuolved in the Jelivery of health care have to work.

That is w h a I~ i: h E:~ y t: o l d u s l h E:~ p u r· p o s e• was. They went through a litany ~ MR. SPEAKER: O;"dCH', pJ.ease! -1-hE:~ hon. m(:~rnbf~r· ·i.s not ask .. i.ng a question. MR. WELLS: [ d o h cw r;:1 l h e:~ r· :lg h t , M r· . ~3 p e a k C:! r· -· you have told me before - to lay a Foundation. Do I haVE! t.hf:! r·ight to lay a foundation? MR. SPEAKER: Ordr;:~r. please:~! In any first question, any han. rnr:~rnber has t.hE! right . t:o lay a foundation, but there is a diFference between laying a foundation and making a speech, clnd thr:1 hon. mernb~H' is rnakinq a speech at the present time.

I ask him to ask his ques tion . f'hc~ han. the LE'dder· of thE! Opposition. DR. COLLINS : n point of order, Mr. Spe~ker. rJt R . S P E n K E R : A point of order. the han. the M .in i. s hi.! r· or 1·1 e R 1. 1: h . DR. COLLINS : Mr·. Spc~dkf:'r'. I believe ITIC'!ITibE!I"S o·f this House are getting a Jjttle t·irc,~d of t.hc :~ I.Padt!r' of the Opposition questionj ng Your ' HonouJ" - Your Honour has great patience - if hE! does not gE!t thE• s1.ight E!St thing that he wants going his way. NotA.I, hf:1 may not be going so far· as to violate the priviJ.eges of this 1\Jo. 51. R277 tJ.

!·louse, but it is getting very close to it. I think that E:~v~~lnyone is hoping that thC::~ LE!ader of the Opposition will confine himself ·to parliamentary pr·acU.ce, and whE:Hl Your Honour says something he immediately accept it and does noi: argue about it and does not try to get Your Honour to change his rnind and do sornet:hing else. I hope that Your Honour 1.uill, at every possible opportunity, make sure that the hon. Leader of the Opposition practices par·liamentary practice and not violate the privilege of this House. SOME HON . MEMBERS : HE:~aln, hear·! MR. WELLS: Mr. Speaker. MR.

SPJ:AKEr~ ~ To -thc::~t point of order, the hon . the l.eadpr· of l:he OpposJ l.: i.on. MR. WELLS: Mr. Speaker, I am speaking -to·that point of order. I assure the Minister of Health and Your HonoJr that I expect and ask For· nothing more than every other member of this House has, only the same. But I ask for at J.east that much, Mr. Sp.::~akE!r. I ask t.o br:~ accorcl~~d by all members of this House at lc->.ast that much . There is no point of order, Mr. Speaker. I would like to continue with rny question. MR. LONG: Min. Speak E!r . MR. SPEAJ<f.R: To l·:he~l:: point rnmnbE!r for St. MR.

LONG : of Ol"rlt'!r, l:.he John's East. hon . L2775 JUIW 8, 1.988 Vol XL Min. Speah~ln, I rise to suppor·t the hon. Mi.n.ist:er of li0ctJ. th, and to say again, in speaking to -the point of olnd.::~r. lh.::~ I...E!adt:!r' of t.hE:~ official Opposition has confirmed the poi n t o f o r th! r t hat the minister is maki'ng. WhE!n I arn call.t :'d to ord<: 'r for· making a lengthy

preamble, I iiTIInE!diatE!ly respect the demand made by the Chair and go to my qUE!Stion, and the same rules must apply, espe£ially during the very cr'i.tica1 time thai: we haVE!, u..Jhich is only a ha lf hour in question per iod . And T think the Chair is quit e in order to tell peopl e with lon y prea mb les to get to the.ir quest io n. We should not be giv en the opportun it y to challenge bein g called to order by the Speaker. SOMF. liOI\J . MEM13 E RS : Hear, hear! Ml~. SPEAKER: To that point of Cinder, c ornrnC::~ n t s or I: he hon . Minister Health and thE!

HIE:'rnber for J o h n ' s F. a s t d I" (:~ q 1.1 'i. L e c o r· r E! c t . Th(~ hon. l.:he LE:'ader· Opposition was making a lengthy preambl e and I ask to ask his questions. ThE! hon. the Leader Opposition. MR. WELLS: oF fain him of l: hE~ oF s l~ .. t: h E• too now thE! Mr. Speaker, we have got a serj ous pr·oblt:'m in ~H~all:h. I ask l~.he MinistE!r of Health, 1.uhen u..JiJ.l gov~:!r'ntn('!nt i:lCknoiAJledge l:.he 200 people wor~ing in the Health Sciences Centre, delivering care on a day to day basis, are not rnak "i.ng •1p fal se s t.or·i(~S t:o embarrass the governrne:~nt, and alnE!

E:~ x p r· ~~ s s i n g +:. o l: h e p u b 1 i c g e n u 'i. n (~ , serious concern? When will the ljOlJl'.!l"l'llfiOnl·. l:.i:~k~~ il: SC:!r':i.OI ,I~;ly and clo ~;omet ·.h'i.ng i'.lbout it? No. 51 R277S

SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: The hon. thE! Minister of Health. DR. COLLINS: M r· . S p (:' a k t:1 r , T heW e b (:1 e n s c1 y -L n g tJ.H~ tai<E:1 any cornmunicatiorfs t..ue gE·t Ft~om the I-IE:1Rllh ~)c.ic..:!nces Complex sPt"iousJ.y, t..u:ithout question and <'111 Uw 1-. i rn e . ~~J e c:l o h a1) e c:t IJ (o! I" y 11.dde opE!n channel 1..u·.i th thr:1 Health ~3 c i.e n c E! s C orilp 1 ex .

The d 5. r· ector; 1:1. 1: the ins L:itution has a d:irE!Ct l'i ne L 0 In y () r F '"i. c (~ ' IJ.J h :i. c h s h e 1.1 s (:1 s fr·eqUE!nLly, speaking to the Deputy rJJ:i.nis ·tc:!r', SOHIE!i.:irflt:!S Sp( ~Cik-i.nq \:.0 ITI(~, cHid if rHH!d bE! gets d:irr:'cted t o p e r· h a p s s o rn (~ o L h e:H' rn em b E! r· o F the department when a particular bit of information is required and is not r·r:1adiJy at hand. There is absolutely no problem in Lhe institution communicating any conce~ns they have, and we pay close attention to them whenever it happens. MR. WELLS: Mr . Speaker . MR.

SPEAKfR: The hon. the Lr:~dcl(~r of' l he:~ Opposition. M R . ~~J E I. L ~) : Wl·t(!n will. thE! government c1Ckl'lOIAJlecige l.:hal 1:hPr'E! i.H'E! 900 other· p~:wplE~, bes:id1::1s managenH :!nl:, .i. n v o J. IJ E:' d -i. n c:l e J. i IJ (:1 i" .i n g h o a l. t h c i:1 r· f~ ~eruices who asi<Pd the minister a n cl o L h ('! r· s , !AI h o 1:1. s k n d t h 0. P r e rn ·L e r· c:~.rtd I"E:!pr't:!SE!rttal::ives to i.'.lttE!nd that rnE!E!'I:.ing spc~c:i.F ·i.call.y l·:o he.::t1n l:hc:!ir· concetnns? When IAJ:ill h~1 agree to rneC'!t tAJ.ith l:.hern dncl he<'lr' tht:!"i.r concer·ns? SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear·, hear·!

MR. SPEAKER : L2776 June 8, 1988 Vol XL The hon. the M'inisb'!r' oF Heall:h . DR . COLLINS: Mr. Speak E~r, '[ hHv (! rE! c E!i v ed no invitation to any such ITIE!el:ing. I will go down, C~fter the House closes toda:y, and I L\Ji 11 J.oo k undE!I" thE~ car·pE'!t:; ·-Ln my oFf·.ice in case sornEd:hing came::~ in, slipped on l:he fJoor, and pc:'l''haps sornc->.one carne in and k:ici<E!Cl it undE!r thf:• c c:~r'pE~ 1:.

I IAJ.i.J.J. clou b t v E:! r· 1J tnu c h IAlhE!ther I L\Jill Find clnything, b e c HI!'; n IAI h n n rn e ~' s a g e s c o 111 e f o r· ITH:' thE!Y are dirE!CtE!d to rny attE!nt:i.on C:·1 1'1 d 1'1 0 S II(: h ffl(;! S S •c•\ 9 (~ lAid~> cl :i.J" (:1 C l'.: 1::' cl to rny attention . MR. WEI LS: A s u p p l (:1 rn (~ n t a r y , rJJ r . S p E'! a I< E! r . MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary. MR. WELLS: Whr:~n 1Aii11 th(:1 M-i.n:istE!r' of Hc:~aJ.th and thE!

PrE!rn:ier of this ProvinCE! acknowledgE:~ l::hc1 t the c hu r d11::1 s are so vitally concernE!d about: it that t.hE:1 pr·:i:es l::s ar 'E! pr'E!ach:i.ng sermons about it from the pulpit? That is hotAI conCE!r'ne::H~ peopl(,~ ar·e, and the rnernbers oppositE! sit: and laugh at: i L: . I 1: i :; d s e I" .i. o u s c o n c E! r· n . When wiJ.l thE!Y proper1y deal tAJith i.l.? SOMf HON . MEMBERS : lle<'lr ·, hedr! MR. SPEAI<Ef~: ThE! hon. the Min:ister of HNl11::h . DR.

COLLINS: M I" . · ~:) p (~ i:'l k f.! r· , tAl h C:' n (~ u C:! r· 1·.: h e o p p o r t u n i t y a r· :i s e s L<J E! 1 'i s t e n u E! r y cJ.osely l:o any tAJor·cls ·Fr·orn l:.hE! pulpit. I do not k nou.J hotAJ many rn ern b <:! r· s o n o u r· s '"i cl E! g o l:. o c h u r c h , but I can rnakE! an E!nquiry if that .i. s n e c E~ s s a r· y . I c:m1 s u r· E:' t: h a t a n y rnernbE!rS of the governrnE!n"\: who go ~·.o church, or· any t .. irne they do go No. 51 R2776

lo church, the pulpit. MR . GIU3F.RT : Mr. Spec:d~er. MR. SPf.f.'IKF.R: pay close al::l~~nt:i.on The hon. thE ! rn~Hnber 'for Bur·geo Hay d'Espoir. Mf~. GILBFRT : Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I: o My question is for the Minister of Public Works and Services (Dr.

Twomey), but unfortunately he i.s not in his place so I will now ask the De:~puty Premier, IAJho s~~e:1ms to SIAJeep all hJ.s pr·oblerns under the carpHt these di.:lYS. nw M·i.nistE!r of Public Works, in response to a wr.itt~:Hl qucs l::l.on fr·om me r·egarding renovations· to leased premises, aclvi.sc:~d i:hi:lL $'1-2,01.6 had be(·:!i'l spent to r·e:~novate the Eastern C a n a cl a B 11 i. 1 d i n g f o r· l: h e D o p d r t rn e n t of Mines.

Now a check with o ffi. ci.a 1 s ·i_ n l·d s de par+:rne n·l: f cl'i .l eel to show tendE~I~ documents fo1~ this $4-2,016. l!lli.J.l th(:~ rn:i.n ·i.ster· tell this House why the work was u n d E! r t. ,31 k e n lAd. t: h o 11 t g o i. n g U11~ o ' 1 g h the public tendering pr·ocess? MR. SPFAKER: The han. the M~nister of Health . DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, the hon. mE!mbl'::1r seems to have some information that I CE!rtain1y do not have at hand, and if he will give me the information I tJ.Jill takE:' it under notice and l: r· y to g c,~ t him an an stJ.JC:H' to any question that may need an answer. MR.

FUREY : Mr. Speake!~ . MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for St. Barbe . MR. r·u HY: L277'7 J IJ n e:~ B • l 9 a a \Jol XI. . Mr. Spea _k e:~ r·, the Minister POI~J~H') .. I have a question For of Agriculture (Mr .. I wonder could the rni ni s te:~r teLl 11s, :i.n lJ-ieiAJ of the:~ Pr·ern:i.er·'s c6nsistent repetition that there WE!r'e rnaj or· s tudj_es clorH .. ~ on the Canada - U.S. Fl~ee Trade Agreeme:~nt as i.t l"elc~ltes l:o NeiAlfoundland and Labrador, whether or not agricultural products, Mr. Speaker. from NE!Wfound1and haVE! unrestricted access to the U.S. rnat~kets under this Fl~E!E! TradE!

A g r· e erne n t ? MR. SPEAKER : The hon. the Minister of Rura], Agl"i.Clil. ·t~.ur·al DeVE!lopment. and Northern MR. POWER: M r . S p E:~ a k e r· , t h .i. s g o lJ e r· I'Hn E~ n t h a s done a study of the Free Trade Agrc,~c,~rnE:~nt bc~'t-:IJJeen l.:h,::! Uni l:.r::!d States and the Government of Canada. We and the peopl e of Canada are convincE:~d that this F n~ 1'::~ T r ,:'1 cl f~ A g I" E:~ ern ~0!1'1 t: IAJi 1 l. be v e r· y beneficial to the vast majority of 'inclu:;i ... r-LE:~S ·i.n 1\Je:~wfoundland and Labrador.

The fishing industry, ctgl" ·icul.ture and othc :H' i.ndustries wiJ.l benefi ·t from the FI"E!E:~ Tl~adE! Agreement. We are shipping cucumbers out to the United States today u n r· (:~ s r:. r· i c 1~. e cl , and ·that is the way it should be. MR. FUREY : Mr. Speciker, a supplementary . MR . SPEAKER: A supplernc:~ntary, t.he hon. the rn~~mber· for· S 1-.:. Sa r·be . MR. FUREY: Ml~ . SpeakE!r, 1:1'11'::~ wholesale pr·ice of 1\JGio~ifOiil'ldldnd CIICLirnber·s 01'1 l::he Boston market is thirty cents, as CO!Ilpi'll"(~d Lo SC:'VC'!I'li·:y .. -rl"i .ne C(~l'll:: ~; on Hds market. Is l:hE! m:inistE!r No. 'i I R2'7'77

aware that United States legislation has itemized a number of the economic sectors, such as agriculture? Is he awar·e . that c:tny subsidized product agrj cultural in nature that leaves Canada destined for U.S. markets IAihere that · dglnicultur·al product Js c:dr·e:~t'ldy supplie:~d in the:~ U.S. mar·ket, such as F.:ngli.sh cucumbers, can be discipl:i.ned under a biJ.l that is now I:H:~fure the:> lJ. ~i. Sc~nate? Does he know that cucumbers which are subsi.di.ZE!cl by 1\Jel~lfolmc:ll.and can be:~ discipJined tAJhen l~.he:~y c1nosses the An1c~rican border? Mf?.

SPEAKER: The:~ hon. the A g r· "i. c 1.11. f.: 11 r a1 Development. MR. POWER: Minister· and of Rural, 1\Jorlhern Mr. Speaker·, again, I guess, the L-iberal Party of Newfoundland and the Liberal Party of Canada are not really sure what their position is on free trade. They seem to dilly-dally around frorn b e i n g s u p p o r t. i v e o rH:~ d a y t o b e,~ "i n g non-supportive, being divided and devisive in their approclch to free tlnadE:1. SOME HON. MF.:MBERS : Hear, hear! MR.

POWER: T h i. s y o v E! r n rn e n t i:l n d t h i. s p i.H "l y c\ n d tbe Gove:~r·nrnent of Canada are VE!ry s tJn on g J. y "i. n fa v o IH' o f f r' C:! e l r i." d (:~ . The sme~l} amount of agricultural pr·oducl:~; thclt l.c~alJe 1\Juto~IFOLin(llt:lnrl and go to the Unib:1d St.cltes, certa"i.nl .y 1o~1:i.lJ. not bed rnajor· conce1"n for the NeiAJfoundla.nd dgr·i.cul.I·. :I.Jr'C\1 COirHIILinJ L:y. Wo ·in 1-:end to c:tccess any markets IAJe can with any kind of prod11cl:s lhat tAle possibly can.

What IAie are trying t~o do is op~~n up oppor·tunities in the:~ market ar·ea for our producers in Newfoundland, and that. is IA.ihat L2778 JUnE! 8, 1988 Vol XL we expect the Free Trade Agreement to . do. MR_._FUREY: A final supplementary, Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER : A fine~J. Sllpplt-:11Tlen t:.ar·y, the;! hon. the member for St. Barbe. MR. FUREY: r"'r. Speakoln, I Ct>Hl l:cd1 l::hc~ hon. mini .ster that this pctrty CE!rtainly 'i. S n 0 t !-0 r 1-r• (.;! l:' C 1.1 C II m P ('! I" S f 0 r' 1.·. hE' Ame:~rican markE:~t.

I would like to ask the:1 ministE!r, Mr. ~)peakr:1r', whctl.: !Aiel.l-l::hought-- -c; ut. plan has hE! in the event that the Arno1"icr:1ns di.sc ·i.pJ.tne thosE• subsidized cucumbers which ar·e in the Bos l:on mar·!<E?.l:pl.ace:~ for· thir· ly cents versus the NewfoundJ.and mar I< e t p 1 c\ c e for· s e v c,~ n t y- n -J. n e cents? Does he have a WE!ll. ---thought---out pl<:Hl to dc::~al IAii l~.h that particular discipline? MR. SPEAKER: The-?. han. thE:~ ·Minister· Agricultural and Development:. MR. POWER: of Rural, Northern Mr.

Sr.H:~ctl<t :!r ', IAJai .t. until. someonE! figures out and is able to pr·ovE• the cunount of st1bs:i.dy in U1P agricultural community in lhe world. l"he feder~1 Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Wise) was r· E~ c e n t l.y d l a rn e E:~ l. i. n g ·.i n S r· u s s E:! l s where Canada was accused of having h "i. g h C'! r· s 11 b s ·L d -i C! s , .::t n cl 1 e s s subsidies and mor~ sybsidiPs. ~Jobody ·i.s i'lbJ.c,1 ·l·:o dt!l.:er·minE! qu:itE• accurateJ.y what subsidies are given "i.n any sector of the ag~icultural economy . America is bad, U1C:' European Economic Community is JAiorse.

We in Canada sub:;i.clize:~ l~o a CE:'rtain degr '!':' <:O, but certainJ.y no worse and no Jess t.han rnos 1: othE!r pll'lces. In our· No. 51 R2778

cdse, Mr·. Spei:lki'::H', t.~ote ar~::~ noL the ·leas -L bit concernf:~d about the:~ Free Tr·c:1cle Agt"l'::~elliE!nt c'\frecl:.:i.ng 011r export of cucumbers or any other produc-t . MR. W. CARTER: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPfAKfR: The hon. thi'::~ mernbt~r for· Twillingate. MR. W. CARTER: Mr· . Speakc->.r, rny question is to the->. Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Rideout). On June 3 the rnird.stE!r announced, Mr. Speaker, and it was reported in The Evening Telegram, that two more middlE! distance Vt!Ssels at. a cost of $10 million would be built in the Marystown Shipyard. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hl'::hH', hedr! MR . W.

CARTF::R : Mr . Speaker, we are very ha~py for t:hc,~ rJtc\i"ysl:OIAJI1 Sh-i.pyard. rJtt•. S pea k E:' r· , the que s t ion I p u t to the rn-i.n.i.sl:.er· -i.s t~.tould hE! t'l'::~por·~ .·. Lo Lhe House the status of thi'::~ middle disldnr:e FJ.er.:!t? Art :' th~~·it" cRtchE!S sufficiently large to justify their E:~xisU:~nce? Or· Jn shorL, Mr. Speaker, will the minister bring a r· e p o t' i:. i n l o l h e H o u s e o n l h e middle distance fleet? MR. RIDEOUT : Mr . Speaker. MR. SPEAKER : The hon. the Minister of Fisheries. MR. RIDEOUT: Mr.

SpeakE!r, member·s of the House ~ho are members of the Resource fstirnah~s Committl'::~e, no doubt tAJill r'I'::Hnc,Hnbe r· t hrl L I ag r-c:wd t:o pr·ov id c,, such a dc,~tailc->.d c.'!ccounting to the Cornm.i.Llec, bitt, or cour'S(·), thE! l2'779 June 8, 1988 Vol XL Cornrwi .f:.Lec,~ nE!VE!r go-1-: around to hearing the answer. But I will 11 n d o r ti:l k E:~ :·.: o d o U1 i:1 t , -1'-1 r· . Speaker·. But off the top of my hei:td I Cdtl I:E:'l1 thr:' hon. geni:J.Htrtc:'n and the House that yes, the midd1e cl:i. s L:Hl c 1'::~ boats cH' 1'::~ pro IJ i 1'1 g t·: o be very economically viable urdts. Yco~s. T.

Ci:Hl tc,~J.l. h:i.m thai:. tAri.l:hout cl subsidy, having been built: at a c o s l o F $ 5 1 n i.l 1 i u n d s h o +: tAl h E! n they could bE:~ obtai.nEld OVE!rSE!aS at $2.2 million, even with that disadvantagE!, I can teLl hirn, and wi.Uwut l:.he advc:~ntagc,~ of a bounty which vessels Jess than sixty-·five feet haue in this Pr·ovince, e1Jen with that disadvanta ·ge I can tE!J.l him that yes, the vessels are paying their own way. SOME HON. MEMBERS: 1-JE:~<:lr, h~ar! MR.

RIDEOUT: Now, Mr' . ::>pei:ll<E!r', T. can b"!ll LhEl hon. gE:~ntlE!rnan as WE!l1 the:1t thE! r: r' e tAl s of t h o s e v 0 ~; s e J. s ,H' e t'hH' n-i. n g uet"Y good incornE:~s . It is rny 11 n dE:~ r· s t <:t n c:l.i n g t h i'l L t. h (~ capt a .i. n s and thE! crElWS ar·e E!X trernely happy IAJ'i.l·:h t:he:i.r· IAJOt"k:i .ng cond-Ll~.-i.ons dncl their incomes, and that this tec:hnoJogy i.s adapting V<·H'Y, VC"!l''Y L~Jell to the NE:~tAJfoundland fishE!ry, and +:hf1'i: i:1s a rc;!sul.t of it~ .• Mr·.

Speaker, resource-short plants in lrtdn\j, rnany COITIIltUnit:iE:lS -.i.n this ProvincE! are provided tAdth sever·al weeks of work a year for plant workers who would be otherwise u nernp 1 o Y<o~d. So IAJe tH'e very, vEl r·y p 1 e a s e d wt t h the pro g r E! s s t hat: h a s b(;!E!I'I nwde in UH,~ dElVE!loprnE'!nt in that: middle distance fleet: so far. And, finally, I t.~d11 t~:l1l l:.hi'::~ hon. gentleman, Mr.

Speaker, that tf we do not ~H:!corne aggr·E:~ssiut'! in adopting the expansion of har'IJes l: 'i.ng efFort :in NE!IAJfoundland and Labrador, then sornl'::~body in t h t s P r· CHJ i n c e 1,1.t:i. 1. l r· u e l:. h e d a y No. 51 R2'779

tAl h E:Hl s orne b o d y i. n a no t h e r· p r o v i. n c c-'! does it for us. SOME HON. MEMBERS: li e a r· , h e a r· ! MR. W . C~RTER~ A supplementary, Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: A supplEnnentary, the member For Twilli.ngate. MR. W. CARTER : han. the Mr. Speaker, I wonder would the rni.nistr::~r. thE!I'l, undr::~rtake l·:o table C\ proper· r·<~port on the activities of l·:hC'!S0 lJBSSE!lS? T elm :i.nFormPd that thc,1r•c,1 r..lt"e th:ir·ty-one vE:~ssels of t:hc'l 65 .fool: ch1ss 'Ln l:h<,~ Pr·ov:ince capable of Fishing in the middle distance waters in areas tAJhE:H'e th~~s~~ vr::1ssels are fishing.

I wonder· has th~~ minister done a s 1:. u d y , M t' . S p r,~ a !< CH' , ·i. n l o t h !':1 impact on that sector of the i n s hot' e f ·i. s h C·H' y by v :i r t u e of the presence now of these larger middle distance vessels? MR. SPEAKER: The han. thE! Mini stet" of Fisher·ies . MR. RIDEOUT: Mr'. Sp€~aker, I just foi.rdsl·wd telling the han. gentleman that I am quite prepared, was prepared and still am prepared to provide ·Uw li o u ~; e and the pub l. i. c tAli. 1:. h an accounting and an update of the mi .ddle distc:u1ce effor·t <.'11:. ctny tirne.

I just do not have,~ it: ·in Fr·uni: of tne ~~~{: i·.hr~ mornE:~nl:, bul.: T tAJiJ l urrdE:~t"tc~k~~, OVE!Y' a r·easonable per·i.od of 1·.-:i.rnt~, l·:o pt'OlJ:i.ch:· l·_hi'\i:. I had beE!Il PI"BPi::lrE!d Lo pl"OVidE:1 :in Cotrun~i.t.b~e soln(~ l.o~Jeek~; ago, b1tl: th<-:!rt~ v.Jas not an opportunity to do so. Mt".

SpE~ai<PJ", to the second pcll''t o·f !:hE:' hon. 9E'Jn ·l:.lt ,~ntan' s question, of L2780 JunE! 8, 1988 Vol XL coursc,1 T i.Hn atAJiH'C:1 that th~H'E:1 ar't:! a number of sixty- ·five foot vessE!J.S in this Province that can for very significant parts of the year fish ln areas where those vessels fish. In fact, they can fish at cer·tain +:imE!S of the year out. to the edges of the 200 mile zone and perhaps even beyond, Mr. Speaker . We have encouraged that deVE!l.oprnt:!nt. li'llc:! haV(:O! "'i.n fact, ~1r.

Speaker, as a government helped sontE! of them l:o g(~ar up to take advantage of cer·tain f:ishetniE!S in ar'ei:ls lc:ng (l.i.s I:Hnces of ·Fshor·e. That ·i.s r:l Facl:, Mr. Spedl<er·, t.ht:• hon. gc-?.ntlr::~rnan knows il:. is a fact, and IAH~ h i:OllJ e done ·i. t j_ n -1: h c~ p"' ~:~ t . We are not taking quotas from that C d l: (:1 9 0 I" lj 0 f lJ (~ S S 1::~ l. <; 1-.: 0 9 'i. V E:1 t. 0 d middle distance fleet, Mr.

S.pOr:lker . !"he only q1w l:as t.:hat become available to that flE!et :is as i·.:he:1t"E:1 i.s in the total a s h a t' e g o e s aspect out of -Lncr·ern!::!l'lt.ijJ,J. incr·eas(:•s allowable catch, then to that developmental it. The han. gentleman also knov.Js, Mr·. S pea k e r , t ha t t: h t:' K i r' by R c::~ port , which most peopJ.e in thE! ProvinCE! and t:hl:' House and i.n Atlantic Canada arE! aware of, suggE!StE!d and r'(~cornrnended l:hi'\1: thai:: fleE!I: of vessels, over time, given an i.ncr'E:1ctS€:1 in +:h8 quota, should h;:we at least a minimum of SO,OOO tons of F:i.sh available l:o it. Ml~.

SPEAKER: OrdE:~I", please! The time for oral questions has elapsC:!d. Notices of Motion MR. WARREN: M r· . S p <:1 a I< e r· . No . S 1 R2780

MR. ~3PEAKER : The hon. the Minister of Northern Oevelop111enl:. M I'? . ~,JAR R EN : Mr .. Speaker·, I givcc~ notice that I 1.o.Ji.ll on tornorTOIJ.J br··i.ng Fort·.h tht1 foJlowing resolution: ~'II H E R f. A ~3 UH~ B r· i -1". i. s h P i.H' l i a Tile n 1: 1. !> consider·i ng regu1a t:ions which 1Ari1l r'E:!qu·:i.l"e t.he ldb<-:"!ll:ing J.n Br··:Lta""i.n of fur products that may come from an.irnal.s caught oi.n l.~:~g hold tr·aps; and

WHEREAS the federal government on W~<:~dnesday, May 31, 19881 passE:~d a unanimous resolution condemning such actions; and

WHEREAS over· 100,000 Canadians I and approximately 50,000 of these a r E:1 N a t i v e C a n ad ·.i. i:Hl s , a n d t h e valuE! of the fur industry to Newfoundland and Labrador complements their income; THEREFOf~F: Bl: IT f~ESOUJED HouSE:! of AssE:~mbJ.y go on supporting the l.tnan:i .IJJOIIS the House of Commons; and t h a +: 1:. h E:' r€~cord in IJO :iC(:~ of" 11F JT FURTHER RfSOL.VED that our· I: he OlH' iiouse oF Gover·nmE:!nt. obj e:~ction!;. As se:'tnbly adv·i.se of Britain of SOMF HON. MF.MBU~S : H e Cl r I h e a r· ! Answers to Questions . for which Notice has been Given MR. R. AYLWARD : Mr.

Sp<:~ak~<:H' . MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Forest Resources . L278J June 8 1 1988 Vo1 XL Ml~. R. AYLWAIW: Mr . Speaker, I have the answers to se verAl q11esi :ions on the· Order· Paper . On e question is from tht' memb er fo r Men.i.hok (Mr. FeniAJi.ck) I which I believe was brought up dt1r· i.ng LhE:~ F.st :i.lnr!\l.r:!s dl~bal~ .€~, I would like to table that answer . 1 aJ.so hettJ(,~ cHJSI~J(H'S l~O QIIOS t· .. ion 7B on the Order Paper. I have two pol.i .t.i .cal staFf t.o.rilhin my de~partmE!nt~ an E!XecutiVE! assistant and a mini ster's secretary .

On Question 97 no the Order Paper : Th<,~ vE :!hicl.e "."i.n t.he dE~par·tmE:!Ilt whr:~n I got there I in For. e s try I was a 1985 Che:'v Irnpc:lla. We .invil~ed tenders from eleven firms listed her·e alphabt:~tically I starting w:ith Beothuk Ford and going down as far as Random Ford/Mercury. There were three tenders received , Mr. Sp ea kt:H': C'it y Mo to r·s had no m one y bid; Terra Nov a Mot or s fo r $14 1 100 ; Hickm r.ln Mo to r·s for $12,900, and that is the . ve hicle f>l.tr chased by t: he or de r number as strlterll Mr.

Spedker . (lJ. sol t:her ·e ar't:' s of'tl( ,~ exp r:!n :>e sheet s hE!r'e 1 Min . Speai<E!r 1 for Q 11 e s l· . .i. o n 1\J o . l 0 I I b e l. .L E'! IJ C:! I o n t h E! Order Paper I conCE !rning my tr· avel dtlt'"i.ng i'l ':url .c:·'ti .n L""i.rne ld:> L Fc :~ll. There was one trip to Bishop' s F c:~ll~; for· th(,' <:~nn1ta l l.oi.ve fox show of thE! NE!lAJfoundland Fox BlnE!edei" S 1 As~;oc "i.RLi.onl ~11". SpE ~i:1kc :!r~ Ol"lE! Friday and Saturday I thE! elE!Venth lnonth I on the l:.l.o.J(HJl: .y ·e··i.ghth. MR . SPEAKER (McNicholas) : 0 r· d u r· I p 1 e a s e ! Private Members' Day MR.

SPEAKER: It ts now 4 o'clock and it is Private M ~<:~ mbers' Day . I now ca1·1 o n 1: h E! h o n . t. h o ITI P 1 n b ~'! r· F o r· S l":. . No. 51 R2781

John . 1 s 1\Jori.:h. The hon. the member for St. John 1 :; North. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. J. CARTER : My resolution is a very short one, Mr. Speaker. It mere:~1y reads that tl1e gov~~r·nrnC:~ni: should be~~ ccnnrnc ~~ndE~d for entering into the Sprung pr·oj ect .. T.n oUH~r· tJJor·ds, th'~ gotHH'nment :i.s good and the Sprung project is goo rl . T i n~r:-1 g ·i. n e:1 t h r::~ 0 p p o s i.

U . on , because of their many statements "i.n tho fli.'IS 1: fE~!~J HIOI'lths, L1d.l.J. t,;1kC:! the o p p o ~; j t. e tack , and wi l.l e ·1 t h E:1 r s <:1 y ~) p r 1.1 n g ·i. !> b i!l d o r· g o tHH' n rn e n 1: i. ~; bad. "lhey rnay spa1ne Spr·ung but 1: he y rn "' y no 1: s par· e t h 0. government. Well, that is their p r· i tJ"i. J. E:19 C:~ . I i. n l: '~ n d , t n the F E'!\J.J m:lnub :1S ·a lotted to me, to try and make the C:dS E! for +:.he i'l'ffirrnat.i.tJC::' and I think I will succeed. In the first place, I think LIJe shouJ.d adopt a sensG of proportion.

It is a fact that the Linerboarrl Mill of Stephenville, when the Conservative government of Fr·ank Moor'E!S took ov~:~r ·i.n 1972, was going down the tube and in order l:o save it, and l~.o fin .ish it and produce linerboard, something like $200 rrd.l.J.:-i.on had to be sp~'nt. Then, in order to run it as a Li .ned)Oar·d Mill, somt:~'l:hing l:ike $50 miJ.l:ion a yea.r had to be put in dS

c) sub~;oi.rly. Th<-)1'1, s..-i .nce :it did not tAJOrk out, another $100 m·i.ll i. o n h i'l d t: o b C?. s p l~ n 1: 1: o tJ~ans-foJ "HI it into a netJJspr·:in·l: rni. 1. l. .

T tlndur ·sl.c ~Hld i.l··. c:loc~; l.i'lke i.n mor'c ~~ r11onE!Y notJJ than j t. spends, bu ·t I tJJOtllcl sttgges t to lliE!iri~H:~r ·s on bo lh ~;ides of the House thai: no mattE!r L2'/B2 J IHl ~! 8 • 1 9 B 8 Vol XL hOIAJ tAJel.l l:hE! project. is r't.ln, it can never even pay the interest on l:he tnt e rr::~s t of thclt . $500 plu s million dolJ.ars which was spent on i l: 0 I am not suggesting this money should not he:we bt:HHl s pc~n1t. Tl'lE! West Coast of this Province is pr·os per·ou s be-?. cause of the efforts of this govE:H'nment but at grE!at, gr·E~at cos I~ .

To i:l. ~' o rneLIJh"' 1: 1 es se r· ext : en l: , t n the City of Corner Brook the paper mi.l.l tJJc\S r·c~SCU( '!cl by i~n expen"di turE!, n_ot as large, but c: 1::1 r l Cl.i n J. y c~' x c P e !I 'i. n g $ 1. 00 rwi.ll.i. on . 1\J 01~1, ·i. n con 1: r· i:l ~; l: 1: o t h 1:11: , i::t v C"! r· y relatively small amount of mon ey hi'ls beE!I'l pttL ;:-~1-. i"isk. Jt has not b~::1en an outright gJ"an L; ·it i ~' not morH :~y· dotJJn Uw tubl'::~ . II: is partially a guaranteed Joan for IJ.) h i. c h t h e In e i. s r'1 F (q c i. 1 i. 1:: y !

A) h :i. c h :i. s CE!r·tainly worth thE! arnount of rnonE:~Y pui: Hi: risk anrl :if you to~.JC "!Y'G! to add the valUE! of thE! rE!SE•arch t.•.Jh'i.ch hds gone:~ ·into cr·eal.:J.ng such a project, one has to pick . figurE!S out of th~::~ air, I suppo se, but there ar·e CE!rtainly many tE:'ns of 1n.illi.ons of dol.l<u·~; of value tAJi .lJ. be there whE!n the pr·oj E!Ct is cornpl.c:!t.E!d. By the way, tAJ< ~~ rnight as we11 put our cards on the table. nd s pr·oj E~c 1:-. i.~; not. yc~ 1:: co1npl.c;!te. It: j s anythtng but cornplE!tO. lt is in the process of bPing constructed and being brought on str·odrn.

SOlliE:! pr·oducE! is bc~~.inq sold but it is nothing like full p r· o cl11 c: t i. o n . T h ·i. s :i. s .:~ goo rl d c1 y to s l: a I" l: 1:: hi s debate becc-\Lise this is 8 JunE:' and o u r· 1~1 l::~ •'l l. h c;! r· .i ~; i.~ n y L h <i. n g b u 1·.: l. i k e B JunE:'. It is typical. NetAJfound].and ~3 p r· :i. n g IAJ E~ '~' t h C:! r· . l 1: .. i ~; ·i n s :i. n c e r· E! , it is cold, jt is not at aJ.l 1\Jo. 51 R27 8 2

seasonablE~, and any farmE~r who is t t' yin g t. o p u t s e (~ d in thE:~ g t' o u n d must find himself extremely fr·usi::r·aL<:~d. I knoiJJ I do. TilE! Spl"Ung projE:~ct attempts to contr·oJ. thr:~ Vc\i""i.ables. TL: is'" completely controlled t:~ n v i r· o n rn E! n t . r h r:~ y c on t i" o 1 1·. he cHnount- of oxygen thE! plant ge·l~s i:lrld the:~ i:<llflOIIrl'l Of C02 -i.s rnetr:H'E~d. In fact, they pr·ovidr:~ so meth:i .r·1g li .ke double the arno11t1l.: of C02you find in a normal atmos phe re.

The y control the h (:~ i:'l t , 1: hey coni ; r o 1 the in t: ens i i: y of the light, the ti ming of the l.lg ht, thl:l y coni:r·o1 tlie hunri.di l~y, the nu trition levels, the Ph levE:~l, th(~ water· l.l.;!Vel and, of course, they protect fl"Om thE! other variable, like wind, hale, sudden storms. . MR. BAKER: (Inaudible) bottled C02? MR. W. CARTER: The C02 is provided by the bul"l'dng of propane but thE! amount of C02 in l.:ht~ i.~i:rnosph<:~rG i.s rnonito1"ed and my uridE:1rstanding is i t J. ~; a b 0 l.1 t rl 0 Ll b l. E! IAI h i3. 1.: IAJ (:~ h i'!IJ (:~ -i. 11 ordinary atmosphere.

It. i~; not E!nough to i:lffC:~ct pEH.lplE• who are goi.ng in t h H;~c. Th: ~re 'i.s OIO r'E:l CO?, in lhe hon. gen tleman 1 S Jun gs than ther·e is in the a+ :tno sph erG of l:he Sprung g ,.. e en h o u s e . I t hi n k it i s q u it e safe. MR. STMMONS: We do not dispute (inaudible.) MR. W. CARTER: Alr·lght, t.:h i.s i.~> okay. I arn making my a1"gurnent and I CE!rtainly appn~ciat.r:' COiflfTIEHlt.s. lf anyonE:~ wants to get up and mislead the House, I IAt:ill allOIAJ them l·:o . L27B3 June a' 1.9138 l)o l XL MR. SIMMONS : IJ\1~;:~ i:\9Y'E!e IAJ:i.'f".h arguments, but rni:H' b:!i·. ·i. ng. MR. W.

CARTER : yc)ll on thE! \-'<: ~ bas.ic tell us about ·the t.et. rn~::~ cornu to that, gE:~nt.leman from Fortune -- Her ·rnitage (Mr· . ~>:i. nuno n ~' ) , c:~ n cl IJJh ·i l <~ IAH:~ r.t l" f>. l':. a llci. n g about controlJ.ing thE! variab1E!S, I l:h :ink hon. gr.:!ni:l.elllC:~n w·i.1l. agr·ee i.t :is VN'Y important to contl''Ol thE! \) Cll" "i. C\ b -,, E:~ s . The Leader of the Opposition is doing his best to control the variables over there and he ha s some variables sitt ing down For the first time.

HE! seE!ITlS l:o be dbl.e to cont:r·ol th(->. mernber·s 1 lE!9S at least, if not any other part of UHdr <:'.lnat.omy. Obviously, han . gentlE!rnen knoiAJ t.:h:i.s product is pest.i.c:i.de and herbicide frN ~ . I arn not against herbicides and pesticides, but they can be overdone, and these particula1n products arE! absoJ.utE!J.y free of pesticides and h o dJ:i. c :i. d E! s . T h a '\:: 1. s n o !·: s o me t lri. n g you can say for most ordinary tH~g(-) Labl.E!:> IAJhi.ch <:lr'E:' f:i.el.cl gr'OI~.II'l. Savoury does not requir e pe~ 1: i.t:.i .des. 11: 1.:> too s fo:r'on g For insects to attac k.

Bu t most field vegeta bl es do have herbicide and pesticide residues within the m Ol" on them or· near them or ~bout t h ~~ rn , i:l n d I: h <:~ s (~ h .:-1

l) e n e v e r s u e n o r· wilJ. not see any chemical J.ike l.:hRL. ~)O l:h'.i.s hi:\S r:o be t'\ positiVE! factor . With a] l the anti-s pray talk you g e l'. , T d o n o t t. h l n k a g r' e <.d: d e a l of it is justified, but therlo! do ~;~~E~rn 1-.o b(! Fears .in cert.cdn quarters and certainly these products should be absolutely accE:~ptable to the enU.re markE•t. ~3o l:hat -Ls t.h(~ bE:~g -i.nning of t:he marketing. No . !)'I. R2'783

The hon. gentlemen opposite suggest the marketing is a p r· o b l e nt . T h <~ f i g u r e s q u o t e d a r e IA.Ir'ong. The figures on Uw Bos !.:on ruarkc::1t iH'Ii:1 Wl"ong. I am not going t.o gel: inl:o a nurnbl'!T'S game 1..Ui.U1 han. gentlemen. I suggest they c h <.;! c k t h e ·i. r· s o u r· c H s . T h e n urn b e r· s they have been giving are wrong. Shortly after we joined Confederation a great many art .i c 1 e s s tat' t E:' d d p pear· in g in 1:: he Mainland press about Nc,1wfounr.Jland. lhE?.r'C.;! IAJC-?.r'C"! ar·t.icl(:1S in Time magazine.

There 1..uere articles ln The Globe and Mail, National Geogr~phic, and some othc:!r' nldgi:l.zi.nes i:l.S IAJell. Sornc,~ of these:~ ar·ticles IAJet'E:1 right, but a lot of t. hem 1..uere wr·ong . T t tAla s Rn interest.jng education for us I:H:! c i:W s l'~ IAH~ s 11 d d t-:! n l. y r c,~ <:l J.:i . 7. E! d 1: h r:-1 t possibly Time magazine could be IAJrong. The Globe · and Mail c011l.d be IA.Ir'OI'Ig, We1l, The Sunday Express can be lAir' 0 n g l: 0 0 , J II S t a ~:~ r'Hl E:~ X i;\l f1 p J. <,' : ThE'!Y had somE!thing in about our p c,~ n s i. o n s 1 t'l s i: IAJ e Ed< .

ThE:' -i. r· f i. 9 u r e !> are wrong, absolutely wrong, and t h e s E~ a r E:1 n o t h i rl cl EHI f i g u r (~ s . These arE! figurE!S anyone can get. I suppose you have Lo pay the appropriate fee. So I do not necessarily believe aJ.l that I read. I suggest that han. gentlemen, before they start banding figures around, check their· sour'CE~s. The other thing about this facility worth thinking about is that. oncc,1 it gr:=!l:.s going, i.i: IAI'ill bH continuous production . If you hr:1vt~ <:·1 t0111al:o i:hi .~; mor ·rd.ng, yo11 can have~ i:trlother· tomato tornorTow 1nor·ni.ng oF t:he Si:'IIIW quali.ly.

MaybE:' H. t..uill not be thE!· same p r· ·L c e . P r· :i. c C:' ~; cl o I would scty this: r.1 cont.inuo11 S and r~l.u c 1::1.1 a 1-·. 0 ' If you can inE!l:i.c:\bJ.~~ But. haVE! and L27B4 June a. 1988 Vol XL r·easonab]y sufficient, if not an abundculL, s11ppl.y oF pr·oduct, thr:=!n the market prices must stabilize. T l 1111.1 st. . lAJOln k. If t' f:'! 1 i a b J. e , product, stdbi1iZE:'. economics.

T h .i ~; is L h "! lAJi'l y rna r k C.;! 1:. s you have a continuous. r::J.ttr·acl:'ilJt::' !>Uflply of any then the market will This is r:1 basic law of Damaged pr·oduct and also. by the way. thE! wastE!. thE:~ d etri tu s of the US(~d up p1ants. is C:'tVai.lablE! for local farmers, apparently. Thetl: is a plus. nw c r· i. U. d. s ITI hi:~ s b ~:! ('' n ]. e v e l E! d a t this government that because of '1-:h(:1 tnvestJnc~nt: dnd 1--.1·1~~ exposur·e given to Sprung by this go1Jernrnen~·.. no+: eno11gh is bP ing done for farmers. I would like to Sllgge~;t l:.hi:\l:: these:> tt.~o.Jo argutnE:!nts are unrE!lated.

They ar'E' 1 1 n t' E! l. a t e d . C e r t a ·i. n l. y l h C:! r E! ·i. s n o t E111ough being done fo1n farrn€'!lns. but I Hdnk ·t-:h:i.s gotH:!r'nrrHHlt IAJould have been very Foolish l::o have passed o tJ E! r· s 1.1 c h i:-l n o p p o r t u n i. 1: y L o g e t a high tech facility like this. While we are on the businE•ss of t~o.Jhat: -Ls bc,~ing done for fdri'TIHr's. I am happy to not:E! thE!r'E! is a proposal i. n ~: h c:> 1..uo r· k ~; l.: o rna k e t. h l::O licensing of farm trucks avatJ.ablE• For about ten dollars d year.

This is done on Prince EdiJ..Jard Island and 1 think i.t .is dom~ .in New Brunswick. I am not sure aboul~ Nov;,l ::>cot.:i.eJ.. II: i.s h:i.gh time it was done for NewfoundJ.and. and I: dill told l::hat. il: is goi.nq to ~JE! ·donE! fo1n NeiAJfoundJ.and. So ~.:h(~r(~ i.s a plus. Ther'E! <H'<,' a number of pr'ogr·ams For· Farrnc,H'S. ThE!re are not E!nough. I t: h :i. n k f ·~'l. r· nJ (;! in S h r'\ l) (;' •'l h d I" d E• 1'1 0 U g h l::imE! t.~.d th our I..Ut•ather· IAJ:ithout somE• oF i·.h~~ oi·.hr::!r' 1·.h-:i.ng~; IAJh:i.ch COI.1l.d b:::1 done For us.

You do no L haVE! to ar'gtle tAri.Lh me or· you do noL hat)(,' No. 51 R278LJ.

to deba h:~ tAli t.h rnE:~ t:o gE!t. me:~ ·to agree with you that ' there is not enough being done for farmers. That need not form part of the debate. I will grant you that point right away. But I do not suggest the Sprung fa c i.l i. t y ""i. s go-ing to bE:~ lvn· rnf 11 J. because one of the things we do n e E! cl i. s a c o n t r· o ll ~~ d e:~ n v :i. t' o n mE:' n 1: to experiment with various types of cl.:i.ma"i.:E!, var·i.otts +·.ypes of soil and var·:i.ous concHtions.

I would h o p e , F)(H' 1·1 r:-1 p s w h e n t h e !3 p r· 11 n g complex :1 s fully developed, that some :>1"11<-lll ·cor·net· of . ·i.l lfli.'lY be:~ able to be devoted entirely to experimental procedures. One thing about land, Mar·!< TtAJi:lin observed, I think about 100 years ago, he said, 'They ai.n't rnaking any man~ of ·it. 1 it would make a ver·y inter·esting stat . .isti.c to st:H'?. just how many acres of prime On tar·to farmland the,~ Spr·u ng Complex is equal to . In terms of production , I wo u 1 d suggest i t is probably a couple of hundred acres of prim a Ontar io farmland jn ~ prime s e a s on .

So , you k now , i t i s somettli.ng to i:hi.nl< ;:\boui :. Its v~lue is f~r in excess of its i tnrne dial: E-) v ctl u C:! i'l s ct p r· o d u c E! I" o ·f VC:1gC:~tablE~S. For· "Lnstance:1, di-·. +:hC'! pr·c,~senl: +::i.tne ·Uwrt~ at··c~! sorne-t:h:ing loikE:1 200 Full-ti.rne jobs. NotJ.J, i:hC:!SC:' <'lr·e not 200 hH1 wee I< jobs otn 200 i:.IJ.H~nty IJ.J~~o!< job:;. Thc,~se i:lr'C:! 200 fu] 1--t:ime jobs cHld they ar·e jobs i:hr:\l. c:n·r,~ .i.ntc~r'E!Sl:.:i.ng, r·E~tJJr:u·c:l"in':!j, comfor·tcdJJ 10:1 and pleasant.

Appdrentl.y people c'\rt:' glad to wor·!< their and I do not think they have l:hE• kind of tut"n OV{::H' one usuaJ.ly finds. AN HON. MEMBER: How many? L2'785 June 8, 1988 VoJ. XL MR. J. CARTER : Something like 200. NotJJ, some of these jobs, you tJ.d11 drgue, aro constr·uct:.ion jobs. That ts true. But rE!mernber this: The F c:\ ci.l. :L 1: y ·i. s no t. y t"! t completed. When all the entire r~ i'l c "i J. i t: y i. s g o :i. n g , t h e r (,1 tJ.d. ll b c:• something in the order of 200 pfn'fltr:lnE•ni: job~;.

At the presPnt timE! thE!l''e is 200 jobs, sornE!th-:ing l."i.ko · 1.00 pennane:'nl: i:lnd 100 construction, something like +-.l-1 i:tl·. . T h E! ~; {::' F i. g u r· o s a t' E• approx:intclte. But tJJI'H:1n thE:• fdci.Ji.i:y ·i!; fi.n:i.s~H:!d, you tJJ··i.J1 be looking i:lt 200 plus jobs, p c,1 ('Hlc:t n en 1:. , com For 1":. db l. e , pl. e as ant., well-paying, interesting, t"E'HAiiH'ding jobs 14Jh:ich do not exhibit the kind of turnover' thE! ustt<'l1 200 jobs fac:illtic :1S do exhibit. MR. SIMMONS : Would t.hc~! hon. lfll':1lTlber· pE!Y'rnll~. t~ question? MR. J. CARTER : Yes, SUY'E~. M l~ .

S P E () I< E l~ ( P a t' s o n s ) : The han. the member for Fortune - H t:! r· rni . +:. i:\ g ~1 . MR. SIMMONS: T t·.lvHlk ·Uw ll\(:'tnber· fot" y""i.c:•l.d.ing for a moment. I am sure lhe trlE!l"llbt!r' 1:)(:1l. ·iE)Ves IJJhc\l:: he ·i.:.; saying, bul on onE! specific, hE:~ is vE•l"Y 1n:i. s :i. n f o l"llW rl . DoC'! s l·w r' E'! <.'11 -.i. L r:! tJi a 1:". these plE!i'.lSant jobs which ar·e not..u in plAy in there are held by peoplE! tJJho ar·e not E!Ven pt"ov:ldE:!d w·i.th SC:'ns""LbJ.e outcloot" l:o.ilet.s?

Does he realize the conditions unde:1r IAJh:ich t.hose p<:10pl("! 6lt;'e working in there right now? 1'-1 R . J. CARTER: No, I do not I happE!n l·.:o No. 51 rE!alize have that because visited the R2785

·f d c -;, 1 i. '1.. y a s r· E~ c u n t J y i'l s y e ~; t H r· d a y c.~nd th<::!r·c~ arE:~ -facil'ities. So thE! Jll(:~lltber':; i.nformat:i .on i.s t~wong. MR. S[MMONS: Quite recently, in that case . Mf~. J. CArnE:~: WE!ll, the me:~mber' s information is wr·ong. lt :is just. wrong. 1 hli'IS there yesterday. I had a good look at the placu yesterday because I did not want to come unpr·epare:~d for· this debatt~. So T had a good thorough look at the facility yesterday and the facilj(y I would ~ay is - AN HON. MEMBER : I cannot get in . MR. J.

CARTE'R : I ant sure t:he:~ hon. gc;q·ti~lerrti:Ht look. ·there are photographs on the t.~Jall.s of t~w l.c,~ade:~r of l'.l·w Opposit. :ion (Mt". Wel1s), of the 1c,~ader· ol- SOI'IH:~'Lh :ing or· oUter· clot~m in t h8 corner·, he is there. M R . C A L L A r~ : Is L:h.:<~ ·l: l:h<:~ washroo1n ~~J<:~l.ls? MR. J . CARTER: Well, they should be on the IAJ<:lshroom tJJal.l.s. It wottlcl be mor·e appropriate. Anyway, they are f r' o n t a n d c e n t r· e:~ a n d +:1-H:! y <H' r:~ v E:~ r y good photographs.

They are quitE! large photographs and you can SE:H?. the interest and how completely t. h e h o n . 1r1 c:~ trt b e t' s · o p p o s :i -t.c~ a r· c-:o absorbed in tJJhat they are seeing. They are very, very impressed. The look of wonderment and the lmpr·r:~ss Lon i.s IAWitten all over· thEdr faces. Th-i.s i.s no+: like:~ operation. I visi tE!d Sh<'theen's Shaheen's OfH:~r,:-lt :i.on i'lnd you could t:h"i.s tJJa!;• a scam ft~orn thE! tAJor·d go. But th:i s Spr'1 .1ng opt'!rat.ion shot~J:; IJ('!r'IJ, Vt-:~r·y ccn·e ·fu} rnanage:~mE:'nt. vet"Y. very 1_?.78() .June B. :1.9BB lJo 1.

X I. ~~~ h ;:., [: tAJ C:' c "'l J. t: e n d :~ r· l o v ·t n g c 611" ~=! . There is nothing out of place. lhr,~r·e ;:n •e no r:r'r:-lsh hodps t·.hE!r 'e like there were at Come by Chance~~. Just to recite some of the facl.lil'. .. i.e:~s t·.hi:\t. IAJc~~ hdiJe ~;e<:!n cornr.:• and go in Newfoundland since Confederation, I cannot help but think of the rubber plant, the hocb~y sU.ck p1anl.:, the chocol<:~tE! p lan .t, thE! orangE! jut c E! pr·opo sa} by Do y 1 e , <Ht d the B e 11 I s 1 a n d contract that was supposedly on -the Premier's desk. I wjJl compliment the Leader of L:ht:=!

Opposi'L:iun. ii<'! tJJas onE! o·f thE· few who 1.1Jere so disgusted by the Shahoenery thdt was go ing on he did at least partialJ.y ct"oss the floor. Ti: IAJ<,,s ned: a f1.tl.l cr·oss. It was sort of a half. cross .

If he:~ hdd shOIJ.Jtl iTIIC~ COIH'CIQC!, l th'i.nk he would have come all the way acr·oss di1d sl::r·c,'ngthl;!nncl l::hE! pdr 'ty that needed strengthening at the Utrll'! and don(~ so111e good. flul··. ds it IAJas, il:. tJJas a mc;!t"t:~ tokc:~n ct"oss, a l:oken pr·ot:c:'SI: attd ·i.t dj .d not. achieve what the hon. gentleman pr·obdbly IAJani':E!d t.o i:tchi.etJC:~, 1.1.Jh i ch IAJas thE! bringing doum of th E:! Srnallt.~Jood goVE!rnmE:>rlt. I think it was a very praiseworthy, very worthwhile att.E:~tnpt, but: he did not go far E!nough. He lackE!d stamina, shell] IA.I E:~ s a y .

I r· <'! 1 n c::~ rn b 1->. r· t: h ~=! ·.1. n c :i d e n t quite well, and I thou~ht very h i. g h l y of h 'i.n 1 a i:: i·:l-t E:~ t. J rn <:' a n d I a tn sorry that he dJd not fulfi11 what IAJas, in rny v .i.c :~IAI, a gr'E~at: FH'Otn'.ise. One of the big values oF thJ s. and I ,,~Ji.ll g<C!l: tnto ·i.i". IJJhen r· hal!('' a chance to speak again when I L4lind up my t"::!rrtcn·ks, i.~; th<:d : 1-:h.L~; facility can use in Full pr·odLtc I: ion dbou 1:. l·:t~IPn l':y l~o twent .y--'LIAJO rneg~lwatts of pot.1.JE!r. ~.Jo. S 1. R2'7B6

We cannot bd.ng pow~1r down to th~1 Island f"t'orn Upper Churchill., Lower' Churchill, or eVE!n lowest C h u t' c h i 11 , t. he M u s k rat Fa 11 s , the lowest Churchill. I think the economics of 1:: ht1 s t t.udti.on ;u'e that the power line or the interti.e to the Island is something ljke $2 billion. The amount oF elE!Ctr'icii.:y you hcllJE! l::o bring to make this commercially fE!dS'ibl.c-:! 01" to mab;! 'i i: pi:lY IAJOI.ll.cl b~,~ a minir11um of about 800 to 1, 000 rne 9 d.I~Ja +: t s .

To br'ing 1,000 rnegawatl:~; etJ.J of R suddE:!I1 to th:is Island, t..uh:ich only USE!S obOI.II: l,o00 dl1c:l R9<:\Jn, thc,1SC:' are approximations so I do not lAid n 1.: to g <o1 l i. n l: o i. t , that J s a b o u 1: 1, 600 megat..ua U: s, so j f you IAJere to bring i.n an extt'a 1,000, lAJhai': would you do with them? You could not 1.1 s r::1 l:h~~JO. We rnusl: f.i.nd and should f·i.nd and should welcome industry or complexes that efficiently, sensibly and LJJi s e 1 y us e J a r g e blocks of power'.

I think if l:hts thing works out, what I would call this Twenty -first Century facility, I think you 1Ad.ll see or' you may ~;ee or' I would hop~1 you would see many more such fac i.li ties. NotAl, not. ne ce1s s ar' .i l. y E:1Xactly like it, because I think l:hr:1y lJJOIIJ.d hdVO ·1-.o bE! VC11" ~i.C :1d slightly, but this type of raci.l.ity, I l:hi .nk, ·i.s l:hE:1 IAklY of t.he futur'C :1. Thi~ :is the way the world is going l: 0 i•t d lJ E! h! 1'.! c:i .i. '1: S C'.! l r by II~; "i. l'l g i'l high 'LE~ch, conli"O]]ed envir'onrnent, dnd Ud .s is i:hP way of t:hc,1 fut un~ . You may not 1 :i k ~'! it..

You IIIElY IAIC.Htl i:o si':-Lck ·i.n Lh1;! p;:'ls+:, r:'lnd t:hE:!r'E:1 ar'Cc~, perhaps, some disadvi:lnti:lgt::!S, but 1 i:ITink, on the ,' tAJhole, this is IAiell t..uorthwhile. I CEH't.a:i.n1y congratu1ate o1.1r' government for sticking their L2787 June 8, 1988 Vol XI_ necks out and going ahead with it . I would 1'ist.en t.o opposite . be vc,1ry in'lE!rested. to t.he comments of mernbE!r's MR. EFFORD : Sit down then. MR. J. CARTER: I am about to sit dotJJn . Do not g c,11 . b 1::1 :i. n a h u tTy .

As T ~~ d ~)(:! accepted interruptions, I hope th i:li·. hun. g~>.ni .l.(:~nlf~n uppo~ ;l i ... c~ tAJ~i.ll also aCCE!pt lE!g:itirnate, helpfu1 i. n l'. <'! r' r' u p i: i. o n s . AN HON . MEMBER : (Inaudible) . MR . J. CARTER : Good. 1 !Ad.ll. be Vli!r'Y ··i.n'l'.t::!resl ::ed in what han. gentlemen have to say . SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear', ~H:1ar! MR. FUREY: Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: The han. the rnember for St . Barbe . SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR.

FUREY: M r' . ~'l p r:1 <'I k !'.! r' , i. 1': i. s .. i n i.: C:! r' c;! s 1:. :1 n g t: u note that thE:' whole hydl"opon'i.c CO!IIpl.l~:O< l~Jh j dt "i.~; l'lOIAJ COI'lS ·.i.d~'!r't:!d a very largE:~ Newfie joke, dght <:l r: t·' o s ~; 1 ·. h i. ~; P r' o IJ i. n r: o ... ''' n y u n e '"' h o attended dinner l:oday lJ.dl: :nE·s secl d l s 0 i. L hr:t :; 1101~1 l:w CUtrH:· d r~oy al jokE:1. Mr'. Speaker', the hon. mE!fnbE!r must h i:l lJ (:1 b n e n 1 1 p d l. J. n '.i. g h i: t h i ri k i. n g about L h.a t

part i c u l a r s p E! e c h , be c au s c~ .i. L ·i. s v E! I" y 1rtU dt 1 i.l<e'! a hydroponic cucumbc,1r. It is t..uor'th abo u i.: t h :i. r 1: y c e n t s , a n d , i. n a l i - likelihood, will end up in the No . Sl 1~278'7

dump, spc,1ech . l:i ke that particular· The'! 1n~~rnb ~~r· d t d no-!: r:l (~ i:! l., Mr· . Speak e1~, with any s j ngJ e part of l:h ·i.s pr:u·t.i.cul.;H' ·.i.ssue dnd t·.hl:~ legitimate questions raised by h on . m r:~ m b r:~ r· s i. n b o t: h p .:'I r t: -L e s on Ud s sich1 of the House. It is a s:i.gni .fl.Ci:ll'li: 6\lfiOUJ'lt: of TIIOnC::1Y be.ing asked from the public treasury.

I congratulate the hon. member, M t' . f> p (~ a kt:H' , o n g (;! t t: i n g I:H:1 y o n d ' No comment.' I since!rely congratulal:e hlm For gett.Lng beyond those two words, because none of +:.h(~ Cabinet sc;!C:~JilS l~.o be ablE:~ to get past 'no comrnE!nt' on t. h a t p i.'l r t. i c u J. a r· s i d <:1 o f t h e HOUSE!.

Perhaps I will send a recommendation to the Premier to i.nvil::e th'~ hon. m~~rnber "i.nLo the Cabinet, perhaps as Minister of Agr·.i.cuJ.ture, i:tnd hE:' t.Ali .l.l s-i.ncc'!I'C:1l .y deal with som(:! of the lE~gitirnate 4 u E~ s 1:. i. o n s p o s E:' c:l b y h o n . rn (~ Ill b t~ r· s o n th:is side,! of the Housr:~. M1~. Speaker, thE:~ r·eso]ution ilself l.S pi'C:'i".:ty s i·:r·;::d':!jhtforllliH'd. T t c:.tsks us to cornrnE!nd thE:~ goVE!rnmE:~nt on thi~; high 1.-.('!Ch, state--of-the-art investment. Wt~l.l., Mr. Sp~.-:1aker, IJJE! commend lhe government.

Now that commended, us about the perhcips the cost government th~~y IAJi.l.l and dE!a] is t. <-:11. 1. with the real issues. We compliment the ~overnment on this new, i n n 0 V a t. ·i V E! C CHI C (:~ p t: , b 1.1 t IAH:! genuinely, sincerely question the cost, the amount of taxpayers' dollars taken in through general revenues and spent on i.'l hydroponic complex of this magnitude in Mount P(~arl. OrH>. liJOJJl.cl dl.iAJClys l·.hi.n!< ·i::ht-l.t you I 2'788 JUI'I(! B, 1988 VoJ. XI.. experiment in a small way first to see 1f somelhing can work and then gradu .ally gt~OIAI.

You do not touch l~h~::~ bol:l.:orn oi- "1 pond, Mr·. ~3p€~d!<E:!r, just by saying, 'I am going to d i. v e i. n a 1.: o 11 c h t.-.1-w bot. tom . ' You have to know IAihat thE:' dJstance :is ·I: 0 1.: h (:~ b 0 [·. l: 0 1'f1 c:·! l'l d IAI hi.·! 1-.: y 0 U 61 t' (:! getting into. Just as an asidE!, Mr. Speaker·: I hear·d th€:! hon. l'fl(:1rrtbc~r·, a Far·rnc~J~ .in his own 1night and a good FarmE!r·, sdy all. was well. in agriculture in this Province. It could not be any better. He painted a rosy picture. I am really surprised that the hon.

TII!::~Jflb(H' IAIOUlcl St.i'!l'ld l:.hE~re di"Jd say that things are really good - MR. J. CnRTER : A point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: A p o ·i. n i:. o.r or d t' r· , the h on . 1: hE! member for St. John's North. MR. J. CARTER: T. h<.WE! i ... o c!~;k ·l"hE! hon . rnembE'!r: Was he here when I !Alas speaking? I d J d n o 1:. s u g g ~' s l: f o r' o n E! rn ·i. n u !-:. e MR. EFFORD : It is a question, Mr. Speaker. MR. J. CARTER: No, Mr. ~3peakr:1r, i.t -L~:; a point oF or·der, because somE!thing has br;!E!n sai.d l:hr'!l .:. I cJ·i.d not: s.'::ty.

Something has been laid at my door that IAI<'~ s no t even on my s 1:. t' e e t . I think it is an hon. gE!ntJ.E!rnan's r· .. i.cJht, pr·i.vtlr::'gf~ (::tnd r·equir'E:!InE:!nt to get up and set the record s t. r· ;d g h t. . AN HON. MEMBER: No, it is not. MR. J. CARTER: WE!J.J., ~3p(:1<::1kl:!I"S -Ln l:hc,! pd ~;t: have No. .S 1 1~2'788

CE:H'r.a""Ln1y aJ.lowed -i.t, and T suggest that I did not say and did not sugg~:?.sl-.: for onr::1 m:inut:~:~ that. evE:'rything was as we11 as it sho1~ld be Ln agr.icull::ur'~;:1. Referring to my notes right here .in front of rne, ther•r::1 .is not enough done for farmers. MR. FUREY: 0 r d e r· , M r· . S p (~ a kt~ r· . my ·l:irne. MR. J. CARTf"R: 1·1 c:~ i. s t: a k i n g I SH:i .d thi:li-:. IL i.!; par·L: of thr::~ recor·d . The tupr::1s will show it. 1\Jow, T sui!Jgest 1·.he hon. gc~ni:J.r::~lfldn coi'Tect his stateme:~nt. MR.

SP[AKFR (Parsons) : It w~s a point of clarif·lcation and I consider· it a point of o r· cl e r· . liJ h o n UH~ C l H :-i.r· d e F.! rn s n C-:! c r::~ s sa r· y , I IAJi11 say if :it is i'.l p o i. n t of or d r::~ r· . T. l: i. s no i·. for· some:1 rnmnbe1ns to shout out it is no po:i.nt of ordtH'. Th(:~ Chair tak(,1S the responsibility of saying if it is or· if it is not . a po-Lnt of order. I consider that a point of or·d~!r but.:, agai.n, as a clarification. The hon. the member for· St, 3arbt! . MR. FUREY: Mr. Speake:~r, I commend you on such decisivl:~, wi.se action .

What I hc:1ard the hon. membr::'r say thE!n was t:ha l.: [ Sc.d.d h1::1 Si:d.r:l c:qJ.J. l~laS IJ.JE!ll. in the agricultural sector . He r·osc,~ -Ln his pldC(:1 L:o cor·r·ecl· . 1111:1, and I ·t.h<.'lnk hinr for· doj ng that. 11 E! s"' i.d ,;lJ.J. ·L; no 1-. t~Je ll. ·i. n 1:. h~) agricultural sector.

I quite c:lgr·ce IJ.J:i.l :h h'LHl, Mi". ~)~l~)db:!r', .:~1.1 is not w:~J 1 in the agricultural sec tor· dnd pr:~t"t oF 1-.h(:~ bl.dtne li<::!:;- t"'.i.ght at h:is door·st .E:~p, right c-tt g o v e r n m tHl t 1 s d o o I" s t e p . f)o you this is L2789 k notJ.J, Mr· . !) pe i'l kc:! r·, thE:! only Pt"ovince in Uldt the J u I'H :! 8 , 1 9 8 B Vol XL c,~ n t i r· c:~ co 1.1111~. r· y , fr·om c oa s 1:: l::o coast, without an agricultural agr'EHHnent for· its farmHrs? . The only Province in the entire country without an agricultura1 agreement. Yes, all is not tJ.JE!1l for· fr.H·mer·s. Mr·. SpeakHr, lc->.

L rne just paraphasE! here a letter thE~ President of the Newfoundland Federation of Agriculture wrote to the Min-Lster of Agriculture in Ottawa, copied the provincial ~rdn ·i.s l:el" and other· nH:Hnbers, <Hld made public: Hr::1 said, ttAJO yec.H''' ago 1~1e t~HH'~:! told your· d~:!par ·t:.lllE!nt insisted that our agricultural c:llF'O (HrJe n 1-. s h011 J.d bE! s ·i g ned u nd C:! r· Lhe IRDA. Just days c.tgo, I t.~.Jas 1.: o l. d b y b o i.: h o 1.11" p r· o v .i. n c .i a l mird.ster·, Mr·. Power, and Mr·. B:Lll Col.tld:i.ng of lho office of l:he Hon.

John Ct"osbiE!, ·that IAJE! have an o u U . :i. n c~ F o r· "' n <.'l g r· E:! 1::1 rn e n t 1.11 h e r· E! funding levels have been agreed upon, <'lnd -1:-.hai.: t.:h~1 sour·ce of funds have still not been identified. Mc'ly IAJ{~ bE:1 so bol.d as t.o suggest that the source of funding is thE! t.ax dollars of l:hc-'! peoplE! of Canada? Any departure from this basic tr·ul:h is just-. obstac}E!S created by government and a quust:.i.on of SE'.Iftdnt..ics. Mr.

SpeakE!Y', he 1.11ent on: 11 WE:! haVE'! sE:!E!n tht:1 agr'( "~ernt!nt: outl.inc:!d wj_th the proposed funding regime and our· r·l~acl:.-i.o n -i.s .includt::~d in l:.his letter. An agreement without a c a p :i. t <:l J. '" s !; j s i:. an c ~:· p r· u g r· a rn to address basis development needs tAl :i.l.l 1 lo l i. ·1·. '1.: 1 e L o Fur· i·: he t" agricult:uraJ. development in this f> r· o lJ · i. n r t'! , d n cl L h E• '!; ') 1 n 'i. ll .. i. o n t h i'l t you wJll corrmdt j_s r·id:icu1ous, to s.:-1y l:h(:! l.~~,"'~> L. YE:'S, Mr', ~::;p~1akc:!r', all is not well for our h'r;td:i.I .J ondl.

Fc:H 'HH~ r·s i.n l:h ·i."~ Province, but think how much bPU.:er· ·j 1:: IAJOU 1d bl:' hdd SOIIII::! of that $15 rni11ion in cash, loans, gudr'dntE!<:'S, and 1-'!qU 'i.-l.:y bec;,n divE•tnted to the traditoional farmer' 1\Jo . 51 R27B9

in this Pr·ovi.nce. Mr. Speaker, jus I~ Ulink aboLtt +:hat. Mr. !~pea!<E:~r·, 1 Sd:i.d thr::tt IAJE:~ clo not: quiHTel IJJi th the concept of the hydr·opon'i .c fdc::i.l. 'L l:y. ltJ,~ qt .liH't'el tJJ:i.th !":he rnagn:itudE:', size and c o s L s 1 t~H'' q u .:~ r· r· <,~ 1. +: h <:~ 1.: -L 1: h a ~' g on(~ way out of control, and we say, M r . 3 fH~ a k E:'r' , t: h d t a s i'l r· o s 1.1 .1. I: o f that it can only be seen as a IIIC\dcap schc:Hfl(~ . Wh.~ll-.: doT Sr:lY r::tS th€:! menii:H:!r' for· St.

Bar·be to senior ci l~.j_z(:~ns IJ.Jho J.ook 111e s l.:r·,:d.gh 1: .. in the face and say 1 11 Why did thE! governmE:~nt tal<~::~ i:UJJay th,:~t srndll subsidy that runs the ferry bc-?.ttJJC:~en Bonrw Bay and NorTis Point? Why do I have to drive nearly two hours to get to a physician, a doctor, a pharmacy? Why l.t.Jas that subsidy tahHl dtJJay? What do I say to thern when thE!Y a s k rn e 1.1J h y HH~ y cH' e:~ s p r:~ n d .i n g $ l 5 million growing cucumbers? Mr. Speakl':!r, last year the inshore f .i. she:~ r· y Wc:l s in a c r· :i. s :i. s .

W h <'~ t do I say to inshore fisherman, and LIJhat dOC'!$ thl:' r.ll:i.n:i.s l~er· or FinanCE! sCJ.y l:o him who Tllade $5000 toughing '.i.t out <'11·. ~>o'clock Jn Ull:' rnorrdng, in his boat, when you h d \) e c:·l C I I C l.l I'll b (,~ t' r j_ Cl S C: [) d 1'1 d d c.:ucumbel" ci:lpr:!l" in yout" bi:lckyard? MR. vHNOSOR: (Inaud:i.bh~) . Ml~. FLIRF:Y: Mr. SpE~akE:~r. the Minister F LnancE! -Ls (·~rnbar-r-assE•d abou-t white E!lephant that g] OLIJS in d a r· k , a n d t h i:'l. t i s IJJ h y h r,~ shouting. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. FURf.Y: of thai: the :is M r· .

S p c-?. a kr:~ r· , h <:~ -L s ~~ rn b c:HT a s s r,~ d by his own member's resolution, and he wishes he could haul it off the 1.2790 June,~ 8, 1988 VoJ XI.. Order Paper, and St. John's North na:ils, hoping they the member for is bttlng his will not grow hydr·opon ·Lc satJor·y round in that btg P(,~r::tr·l.. the next tlme tent in Mount r.ll r· . ~:) fH~ d k (:H' ' IAJ 1'1 d. 1: j_ s 1·.: hI:! 1 .. :i. I:H'! r· r'l.l. position? Wher·e are IAJE~ corning rr·orn on l:hi .s hydr·opon"Lc facilil~y? Here is what we say: We ask thE! g o u <H' I'Hil E! n t for d corn pl.

E:!'i': <->. d n d thorough study of the Sprung 9 r· e <:~ n h o us E! p r· o j oct: . W c,~ a r· e as I< ..i. n g it bE!fore any 1E!gis1ative appr·oval i.s givE~n for governmE~nt involvement and before any more publ.:i.c funds an~ comrniU:E!d. Is that too much to ask? We are say·i.ng I put l::he br·akl'::~s on. LEd: us study where the $15 million has gone to date and let us study whether it needs more money. Mr.

Speaker, I would JoVE! to SE!E' H1 E~ M :i. n i s 1.: e:~ r o F f>i. n a n c E! c o rn c:1 u p and go in the Lltoods with rne this yc,~ar, dS l did lasl :. y~~ar, i:'lnd t.al.k to fifty loggers who cannot get s 1 1 b ~; '.'i. cl j_ (:~ s o n i:: h E! 'i r· 9 d s o 1 i. n E=! c:'l n d who have to pay htgh taxes in this PI'Ot;-i .nc'~ for· cap-i .Ldl t:'cpri.plrl(:~n 1:. I l.t.JouJ cl love for him to comE! up and g·i.vt,~ a s<,~l"lnon on cuc1.11nbo£!r·s -i_n Lhl:'! IAJoods of HatJJks Bay. Let hirn coiTIE• 11 p ;~ n d cl o i. 1·. , r-1 r . s p E~ a k C:'! ,.. • M o n e y is money .

Hoi;.J it is spE:1nt~ Ml". rJJ :i. n i s t e r· , -L s l.t.J h a t I;.H:l cH' P questioning. Not apples, not o I" d n g Co! s I ITlCHH:• y 'i. s rno rH'! y . A r· '"~ you spending it correctly? AN HON. MEMBER: H OIAJ mu c h s u b s J d :i e s MR. FUREY: I t. i s q u l. t. e o rw as a cucumber masquerade ball, another to spend l:h·ing l::o dr·E:!SS up and go to a but. lt is quite $15 million of taxpayer's monies. IJJe ar·e saying that 1·: h 'i. s go v E! r nlnC'! n 1: on No. S 1 Mr·. SpeakC'!r, projecti.ons by both financing r'279o

and production have proven to be grossly inaccwrate. They say one thing, then we get into an invest.i.ga.tion, L\Je talk to economists, we deal in the true figur·es, and we f i.nd i l·: is absolutely the opposite. For example, Mr. Speaker, the original estimate of the total government financial investment in this project lAJas $11.4- million. Now lAJe find out. i.t. hi:tS r·is(,1n to $15,075,000 and it may even go higl·1<,1r. Mr·.

SpE:~aker·, 111E~ ar·e told that even if the $825,000 Sprung c,1nt)ir·onmE!nt·. space:' ~~ncl.ost.lrc~ l.o; ,ln guari':lnteed by Hd s government is r' ~>. p d i. d lAd tho 11 t <HI y l o :; s I Ut 1,~ t: o -1:. d l gover'ltment: financial :invoJ.vernent IJJi. 1 J. (,' s c r'll. d h'! y ~~ 1-. Fur 1·. h !:'! t' I t 0 $14.2 miJ.Jjon. The M:in:ister· of r· i. n ''' n c 0~ .:1 n d o i: he r· 1 n :i. n i. s +.: e r· s s 1: o o d i 1'1 Ht €~ i I" p J d c ~~ s MR. J. CAIHE"R : A p o ·i. n 1: o F o r• d e r· , Mr . 3 fH ) a !<£: ~ r· . MR. SPEAKER: A point of order, the hon. the rnernbC:1r for· S·t. John 1 s Nor·th. MR.

FURt:~Y : A point of order, Mr . Speaker, or a point of clarification? MR. SPEAKER : A point of order . MR. J. CARTER : A point 6f order, at this time, Mr. Speaker. ThE:' hon. gEHtLl.ern.::tn is ln:i.sl.er:·H·itng t he H o u s e .

Now, hE! is not doing t t d C:! 1. ·oL b e r· a l: (:~ 1 y I T a rn s u r·· e h e i. s not, bE~cause I do not l.:hinl< .hE:~ u n d c->. r· s 'l: a n cl s 1·: h (:~ cl i F r E-) t· (-'! n c 1::~ • 1\/0IAI [ Sr ~l'"i.d q11 :i.1:E:' cJc-)i.H'ly, and T t· hi n I< e v C·H' y r'E:!Cl. so ni.;d::JJ e pC:1r son 1..u:i. 11 t';l C c (,1 p 1.: I t h d 1: 1: h ('! f 1'1 c i.l it y () (J t thc,~rP wh~Hl cornpletE!d ·- and even L2'79l Jurw 8, 1.988 Vol.

XL :i.ncompl.E~-I.:E:1 dS i.l: i.s nOIAJ ·- IAdll I:H~ worth far more than the government's exposure on lt; ·far more, many times, SRVE!raJ. ti1m~s thE ~ totr11 of Ute government's exposure. So to suggest that wE· · ara pouring money down the sink is misleading this House. SOME HON . MEMBERS: Hear· I hear! . MR. TULK: To the point of order, Mr. Speaker . MR . SPEAKER : To the point of order, the han . the member for Fogo. MR. TULK: -----· rJJr•.

SpE:'r:ti<lH', +:.hi:11: ··is l::h~ :! sc~cond so-- -calJ.ed poin ·t · of or·der the hon. g en 1-. ll ->. rnd n h.~'> r· 'i. s c~ n on .in t-.: h i. s HousE:~ this evening. I 1..uouJ.d dl"i.'liAJ Y o u r· II o no 11 i" ' ~; a t U! n l: :i. o n 1: o BE:' au c he s I' IE! , S e c t i o n s 2 3 3 , 2 3 4 , and so on. {) po·i.n ·l-. oF cJr ·dr.:~r Ls not . an opportunity for the hon . genl.:lE~rn<:,ln i:o s·l:i.'lncl up and tr·y l:o deny the truth of what a person is saying Ol" to d(Hty, -.i.n fact, any allegation that is not personal, that. hi.·ls i:o do IAJil.:h j_nFcH'Ination the hon . member - MR. J.

CARTER: What. sections? MR. TULK: 233' 234- . tha 1:-. getting thc,1 hon. gE!nl·. :l.E!IIIi:'ln _Ls on with. Sectjon 233 will s ho1~1 Yo1.1r llonol.tr' t··.ha 1:. r.-1 po--L n 1-: oF order has to do with departure f r· o m d n y ·I: h 'i. n g 1:. h a 1:·. i. s c a r· r· .-L f'! d .l n the Standing Or·ders, any rule of p r· o c l:~ d 1.1 r· c . {) r· 1 11 t~ o !7 p I" o c e d u r· (.;! . Not an opportunity for the han . 9t'!rt1:lPrnr.ln l:o gH-1.: up and foi st hi .s bc.;!liefs or· opinions on another fii( ~Jflbl7H ' of l:h'i.s !·lOLlS( ,!, Or 1:.0 9(!t : up and ask him a qUE!Si:ion. That :is No. 51. :~2791

not correct. It is not a point of or·dc,n·, . and anybody who knotJ.JS anyth:ing about thE! rules of this Hous(~ knOIAJS !~_hat ·i.t Js no ·i ... a poi.n+ : of or·der and, ther·efor(,~, the hon. gtc!nU .!:1nli':ln should bn br·ou~jhl. l:o attention for raising spurious poj_nts of ordE!T' r·i':l+:ht-~r· thdn r·:i.siny on IAihcd: iH'e points of ord e1n. SOMF !·ION. MEMBERS: lic:H·H' , h (:1 i':l r• ! r'l r~ . F lH~ F Y : Ml". Spe<:~ker·, arc:! you go:i ng l:o r·ule on ·it? MR. SPE~KER: Yes, I am going to rule on it.

Since this hon . member has sat in ·t hi s C h a i r , I h au e hear· d n u mer· o u s points of order. I ·do not think it should be defined right down the centre. You hau e to 1 et people have a bit of leeway, on both sides, . onE! on the other. I IAJas read'ing along and :it says here, 1

Interpretation to be put upon l::ht:~ r·ul~~s of pr·oc(~dtu·c'!. 1 As far as thE:1 Chair is concE:1rned, the Chair will accc ,1pt thE! SE! poi.nt:; of or·der. I will be mindful of the si.tud ·i~.:i.on, b11i ... 1 t.~.Ji.ll acct:1p1 ·: t·.hE:1 p 0 i 1'1 t. S 0 f 0 r· d E:' In . T IH:H' e j !; n o p o :i n t o f o r d E-~ r_ , t h e r e IAli:l s j 11 s i··. a d i. F f t:! r· en c P o ·f o poi. n :ion bettJJE:1en hAlO hon. gc-'!ntlemE!n. The· hon . thE:1 rnc;!mbetn for Si_. Bar·bE:!. MR. FURFY : T <:'1 111 amaz(~ci, Mr. Spr:1aker·.

A project that this gouernrnE!nt 1..\Jas so pr·oucl of l::hr'e(~ rnoni::hs ago, beating their chests tn eUE!ry possiblE! tJJay; the Pr'(:~mi .lH' r·unn i.ng around tJJi th cucumbers growing out of hi. s hand , for· a go u e r nnH?. n t t h d t was so proud of it, Mr. Speaker, they are pretty sensitive today. No comment! No cotTIHIE!nt! Heckle, L279?. June H, 191l!l Vol XI . heckle, heckle! They arE! pretty son~dU.ue, Mr. Sp~?.akt:H', ('!Spt:1C:i.d.l.ly HIE! han. the mE!mber . for Mount PE:~ar·l, IAJho h<:ts thi'l t IAJhi .l--.e, fl.a1n.:i.ng tent in his backyard. Now, Mr.

Speaker, what :is the u·ul:h or Ull:~ lfli:'\i:l:\:'1"? 1,\lel.J., :-i.F lAIE! tJJant to g~~t to !:he bot. torn of j t. <Jnd der1.J t.~.ri th l:he:~ i.J'LI Lh, l.o.Jhy ~~Jould the government be afraid of a co111ph1Lel.y opt:!n, Fttll .y dCC(:~s s"i. b1E! enquiry where all the cards are · p111'. on 1:1'1\:1 'L:t:·lble, l~lh~=!r'C'! Mr·. 3pr·unq is call.E!d before a S(~lect cornmil:te<:~, IAJht·:!ine t'lll gouer·nrnE!I'It studies, marketing plans, analysi.s, IAJhere all oF t.ht:At., internal documents noi-.t.~.rithstetnd'i,ng, ar·<,~ la'id upon the='! table?

Surely we would arr:i .UE:1 at t h 1:~ tr·u -t h t h e n , i. f ~:~ s e 1 E' c t committee did a full and compr't::1i'HHJsiue :i.nuest.i.gat:.i.on :i.nto it. Mr. Speaker, we called for a j11di.cial <:Hlqui.r·y, j_t. bE•camP ~::o out of control a number of months ago. 1\Jow, hun. lrlt:!mblH's brushE!cl that off, brushed it aside and sr.li d, 1 1\Jo 1..\JdY! 1 WE: 1ll, if I~. hoy ai"e not going to do that, IAJhy not a SC:1l.c,~cl: cornrn :i.ti:\:~C:~ of i:ht=• Hou~;H, much along the li.nes of the Publ:i.c AccounLs Conun.i ,·Li-- .t'!C;!, -l:.o stt .tcly indepth and in detail where the tn<HlE!Y i.s go ·i.ng .

Wr::' <H'( '' s'i .mply s ayi.ng the matter· ought to I:H~ 1·: h o r· o u g h '1. y .~,1 s s <:1 s s t~ d a n d a feasibility study produced before th:.i.s Houst ;! of Assembly ca n . bE! asked to approve guarant E!E! s which h1 :·1ue <:'ll.r·eddy gone -i.nto ac l: . .l.o n, anJ any more this company make seek. Now, Mr. Speaker, what did the Pr·ernier say? Hon. rnernber·s IAJ:i 1.1 be interested in this . 1 he PrE!mi .er tJJrot,,~ a book, 'l:h< :'lt qr'E:!at author from Green Bay, called The Past I n The Pre s e n t . I ·I ~=! r· t~ "L s IAI h <·l t. h e said, and I quote - and he is ~Jo . r; 1. lU'792

-'· 1~:.ight - 11 Industi"Y after· Jndustl~y IJ.Jas a·l:tt'dc-U~c:l l:o Ne1.ufo1Jndl.and l.:o rJbsor·b subs:idjes and pubJ.ic funds, i:\nd ult:i.rn<."l·.:r:~J.y l:o fai.l. Ii: ~~Jas as if by some magic the no1"mal laws of economi .cs coul.d b(~ r•tw~~r·s~>.d <'lncl totally inappropriate industries u.Jould be dbl.e to fl.our·.ish hC'!t'l,~. 11 MR. DINN: Quote Joey. MR. FUREY: That i.s lht~ end of thr:! quo 1··.r:1. Tht~ Minister of Mines says, 1 QuotE! Joey 1 • Is the-:' M:i.nis l:::.:~r of f"'inE!S embdrrassed by his Premier 1 s book? MR. D1NN : Not a b:.it . MR. flJf~EY: 1 am not ernbar·r·asst:'d by :.it.

That s ·1: at. c,~ rn c~ n l.: i ~; a b s o 11 1 l-.1::1 l y c o r· t' ~) c L . NoiJJ, pi'..tralJ.r:~J that statement IAJith i:h1::~ ~3pr·1.1ng spdc:.:~ c-:~ncl.os11r'to! .i.n Mount Pearl. Industry after ·:i. nd us l.r· y IJ.Ja s al·.l-: t'd c ted Lo i:lb sOl" b subsidies, $15 million by our c~l.culations, Mr. Speaker, ·in cash, loans, grants, c,,quily, if you add i.t~ Hl.l up. Ii : IJ.Ji:lS c:lS i.f by some magic you could wave a wand and not only could cucwnblH'S br:~ gr'OI..un, bt~t. they could be sold. No b o d y q u E! s t. i o n s , M t' .

S p e a k e r , n o t eVE!n the Minister of Finance, that h y d r· o p o n :i. c M H A f r· om M o u n t P e a t' l. , that you can grow cucumbers and lettuce and tomatoes and all. those kinds of things, but at what cost? At what cosl to the taxpayers out Uwre does it take t·.:o gt'OIAJ Uwse 1-.:iT"i.ngs, l:.o l~t'ioll'1spor·i·. these things, to market these 1·: h J n g s , and l: o b r· C'! a k E!

l) on on thE! s t-:' th:in~]s? That :is t:.hE! I"E!a1. :.i.ssue, Mr . ~3 p e i:l k I:! r' . Mr·. Sp{~L'Iker·, lel: : rnc:! shOIJ.J yo11, by o u I" c a J c u J a t :i o n s , lAI h a t lAI e h a v E:' dl"r'ivo.d .:~!· .. [should do l.h ·i.s i.n ·t-.~11"rllS of just one bas:ic cucurnb('!l~. !_2'/9:l :J I~ n P 8 , l 9 B B Vol. XI .

If we take the daily cost of s a l. .u· :i E! :; F o r ~~ h .i. s p r· o j o cl: , y o u t..u:ill see that, as near' · as lAJE! -can calculdtr:~, U: costs $HlWO ~~VE!ry working day for salariE!S; For· electricity you will Flnd $4400, to keep it operating electrically; -L f y o u ad d t. h ~~ i n t. ~~ t' ~~ s t t. o t-.: h E! :J; 1. 5 million at 1.0. 5 per cent, it is $11-300 t.o car·r·y that:; the cost: of ljghts, $2,000; seeds, p1ants and nutriant.s, $1750; miscellaneous pro d.u c t j_ on and p a c k aging E! x p E! n s E! s , notwithstanding those packaged which ar-rived at dumps, $1300; and adrn-i.rd.s l::r<."t ·i.vr~ costs, $2,000.

So the total daily opE!t'ating cost, as ne.:~r· ~s IAJt-:1 C•'ln calculate, .is $2/1., 150. Now, Mr·. Speaker, t.o USE! thE! P t' r;! rn "i. c,~ r· 1 s o IAJ n f :i. g 1 J r f:! s l: h o y c l a .l rn they can gc,~t a yr:1ar·ly yield of 7 Hri.J.l.-"i.on pounds you ddd $1.9,000 to that, couer over and above he.::t l:. i. ng pc,n' t: IJ c IJfflbtH' p~r pound, you wjll find is $1 .27 .

Now, if you l~ak e l:he heal : cos 1:, fr·u n1 their· internal study that was made pub J. :i. c by Ross T r· H v f'! t' s E:~ , a 1'1 c:l factor that :.i.n at. $3,380,000 pr::l~ y c,~ a r· , t h <.'l L i. s 119 , ·r> o P-< ·>.r' day . so thE! hr:~ating cost per cucumbE!r is f:i.fl:y--on0 ce ·nts a day. Add the basic cost per cucumber of $1.27 - a s rH~ <H' a s lAH~ c cHl c a 1 c u 1 a 1:. e , b a s e d on thE! goue!rnrnE!nt 1 s ou.m FigurE!S -· and add Lo il·: F:iF-t.y --.one CE!nt.s pc:!r' cucumber for heating costs, and now your cucumber costs you $1.78. NOIJJ, f"'r'.

Spt:'!dk(-:!t', that c:,\Jl. gives rise to this question : If it cosls $1.78, cts near as we can calculatE!, or euen if you go by !·:.he go l) 1:! r' n nH~ 1'1'!-. 1 s CliAJI'l F ·:L g u r· e s , L h c:d:. thE! break-even point is $1.09 pel" CI.ICIHIIbE!t', how C<'ln IJ.J( ;! ~)I''E:!dk l~VE>.Il Ot' make a proFit when this is b~) COlli iny a gover '11111en l: I·.: rei:\ s tH'Y s i n k h o l e , lAJ h r:~ n t h E! d o rn r:~ s t :.i. c p r· i c e or Cl.l!:lll/lbCc't'•) i.n UH:! NOlAiFoundJ., :~ nd rn<H'kE!'l: is s~~uen'l:y -- n:.i.I1E! CE!nts a No . r.i 1. 1~.2793

pound, the domestic price of a cucumber· tA.JholC;; 1S<. :l.l.e in the Nova Scotia market is forty-seven cents r.l pound, and, the ->. lAJdrst netAJS yr::!t, the domestic pr·ice of that same cuc:umb<:H' i.n the AnH:H'i.can llt;;tr·kei ·., found in Boston on their shelves at wholesale price, IAJdS thi. t' l·.y cents Canadian?

Ml". ~~peaker·, ·for rlE!}leVIIE:' how does the member d n d r'lll rn c,~ HI b (,1 r· :; "'i_ n l.hi s House, and all taxpa.yE:~rs (;;1 v {H ' yt.~Jh en:! , NC:!Wf ou ndland N e1~.rf o 1.1 nrll . •:~ nd 1 :i. k e s ub s- i.di. r i. ng a product, gr·oJJ.m in d n d t r· an s p or· 1.: G d to the Amel":lcan mr:11" k et? They arE! subs ·id:i.:t.:i .ng Arnf :!l' ic•:·l.n c:onsuniE:1r's. That :is tA.Jhat l:hat Sc1ys. They ar·e ~;~Jbs.idi.zing :lmel" '"i.can con!>IHrHH'S. Noru, Mr·.

Spf~dkC;;H', f~ar·ly in the game we talked about and asked the Premier·, iHld the Pr· emler· made public comments on radio . and t e 1 e v is ion say :i. n g : 11 We ,~ have t. h ~1 studies. We have the market studic:!S. We hdV(:1 the f<:1as lb.ili.l:-.y studies. We have everything to prove that th.i.s Ls a sensible, sound, economi c investmE!nt. 11 And i}Jh (:!n thr::! time->. ca1ne i:o p1.1t th~~ cards on thE· table, he said, 11 it i.s under· pal:enl: . W(:1 can 'noi: ·l.:l->.11 you. boy . F.veryth :ing :is under p i't 1:. e n t .

F. v E! r y t h i. n q i. :; p at r.:1 n 1: E:1 rl . 11 [lll b1g· i.nC:1 h-.i_d'i_nlj bE!h ·i.nd SI .ICh i:1 S i.lJy I"U] c~. l--Ice! did not C:WE:Hl undE!rS l:and UH~ paton·!: 1"111.(:1!) I r-1r '. ;.:;per:·li<r:H' I and he:! ruaclc:! an absolute mockE!Y'Y and laugh:i.ngsi·.ock of lri.III S (~lf by lri.d-i.n9 behind that pd .nc :i.p1 E:1. Ever·ybody kn o t~Js lhdt r.lnyLhi .ng pe~i: u nt p(~nd 'i. ng can be opened for full view anyJJ.J<::ty, anybody '"Jho hH s de:, ,•11 . 1: 'i.n patE:1nt s . Whclt. cl'i .d the hon.

Agriculture say, Mr·. sald in The Evening February 3, 1988 car· E! f u 11 y l:. o IAJ hat L2794 June 8, 1988 M.i.nts 1-~t->.r' of Speaker. He Telegram of Listen t.: h e->. c u r· r· l-?. n r.

Vol XL Minister of Agricu1ture said "The~ goVE:1rnrnt'nt did not. have time to get into a feasibility study whtch would be all -e ncompa ssing, which would takE! into account every aspect of the busine ss itself, like how much production and IJ.Jhc~r·c-~ :i 1-. tAtould be solei. ' 1 So the Premier says: 11 WE! have the s I·:Ltd ·i.o:;. ~~e,1 dr '(:1 not . going to shoJJ.J thE!m yet, they ar·e under· patent ." l h :~ r"' :i. n :i. s -1: E:' r· u f A g r· i. c u l. -1: u r· e :,; a y s : "We did not do the stud:i E:1s. We cannot : s hot.~J yo 1.1 '"ihdt-. tAlC '! do no l: have. 11 AN HON.

MEMBER : We d 'i.d no 1: hr'lv~:-~ tinH,1 to do ti'H'!lll . MR . FUREY: We did not have timE! to do th E!rrt, so th(~Y IAJI::!r'E:1 no t. dorH'!. We->. d.i.d not do a feasibility study whi ch would b(:1 al1 -encompa$$ ing, tak Lng inl: .o account every aspec t of the btJs ·lness U .·.selF. l·i.kt->. hotAJ mu ch t~.te can produce, and wherE! JJ.JE:~ can sell :l t . fh s lAJO r· d s , M r· . S p E! a k c->. r· • no other me:Hnber in this HousE!. The:'r 'E! --Ls d d--i.r'f?.ci: conl:r·adlct:ion bE•l::lAJ E:!(:!n the current Minister of A y r ·-i_ c u l 1·:. IH ' E! 1 s tiKH ' d s a n d 1:: he Premier 1 s words .

Somebody is not corni.ng cledn . r'l r· . ~) p e,1 ;;1. k e r· • 'i. l i. s c 1 "' i'l r 1-. 11 d l: n o prope ·r· fea sib ·ili ty sl:udy was E!VE :r donr'! on ·1-h i.s pr •oje,1 c+· .. Exp('!ndii-: .UI "~ ~ of government funds cannot po!;s·i.bly b1-) appr ·ov:~d by th ·i_~; le->.gislature:~ :in al1 good conscie':nce IAJ :i.l:hoiJl: hdlJ i.ng !>OJne bds ·is i~ o r· judging whether or not the pr ·opo.sdJ h<'l:,;"' t'E:'dsonab l(:! chi:ln ce to be financially suc cess fully . MR. SPEAKER : ThE:~ hon. rrlE:~rnber 1 s timE• has E·lapsed . MR. FUREY: l n con c 1 us i. on , Mr· .

S p <~a k E• r· , .i -r=· you can quiet l:he taJking cucumber rr'OIII fhd 1eVUE! tAJhO :i_s On hls IAJay No. 51 R2794-

out afi.:1·~r· th~:.~ noxt: ~~l.~·~cl·."i.on, J.r,~l : TIIO SCJ.Y this: AN liON. 1'1CMBEf~: Ho will be back long before you IAJ:i.l.l. . MR. DTNN : the onus is on every member in this Hous~~ l::o E!nsurt:~ t:hr::~l: ptAbl. ".i.c nroney is being spent properJ.y. Th(.;: only . IAJay to do that, Mr·. Speaker, is to have a SE!lect cornmittt'!E:~ of this House st.udy this entire project from beginning to end to SE!(-'! rAJhat kind of madness this government has us involved tn. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. MR. BARRETT: Mr. Spl'!r::tb :!r. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Development and Tourism. MR.

HARR~~Tr : T lr iHI k y (.W , M r . S p E:~ a k e I" . Mr·. ~:lpeaker·, ·i··.hf'!l''!:.~ r:'lrl:' noi·. v:=!t'Y many ·t"irnE!S the1t you wouJ.d like for tE!lf ~visi.on canH '!t'r'IS or l:ht~ r·ad"i.o OJ" the rnedi a to bE! pl"es E:~·n ·t in the Hollse or Assembly, but 1 l:h'ink th:i.s is one of those days IAJhE!n it would be worthy of the i nt(:~l1 j gencE:~ of the people of our P r· o v i n c (~ t o j u s t: · l·w a r t. h (:~ l"amblings and the ravings and the supposed learned knowledge and logic of thE! TTJE!mbE!rS in the Opposit:i.on on t.hi.s parl~.:i.cular· subject.

T h .i. s sub j e c 1: 'i. s a r· at. hE:~ r s p e c .i. i:l. l one for Newfoundland. It is a v (;! r· y ·.i. m p o r· t a n i:: s u b j (~ c t: , M r· . Speaker, one, I think, the pr· ·i.nci.pl.(~ of r~Jhich h<'lng:; ·l:h(~ entirE: ~ baJ.ance ·- MR. TUI.K: A poirH· . of Ot'cl!;!r', rJJr·. Sp~~i:l.knr· . I 2 79 !~. Jurw 8, 1988 Vol XI.. MR. SPFAKER: Order, pJ.ease! :1 p o oi. n l: of o r· d <'! r· , t h c~ h o n . t.: l1 e ITIE!mber for Fogo. MR . TULK : U: · i. s <:~ p o i. n i.: o f Flr' o u :! d u r· 1:~ , I would say to Your Honour.

I und(o!t·stand l·:h(~ hon. gentl.(:~rnan, cls · part of the procedure of this debat:~~. IAJanl::s i ... o br:ing in th1:! television cameras. Let me say to hi.m, i:lS Far· dS I~H:! ar·(,~ conc(:~rnE!d bring them in. We would love that. SOME HON. MEMBERS : H~~ar, hear! MR. SPEAKER: 0 r· d t:H' , p l. 1:.~ a s e ! There is no point of order . The hon. the Min:ister of I),,~,Jel.oprne:~ni-.: .:.1nd rorn• 'i.su1. MR.

RARinTT: M r· . ~)pea k e I" , t he IAJ h o 1 E:~ p r :l n c :i p J e of t·.h·i .:; :i.clt "!r'\ of~ SC Jf '!l'lCl '! dnd ·technology, reSE!arch and dc,~vc -~loprnenl : in ·i.L .i.atives not bE!'ing able to be carried out in this P r· o IJ i n ,: e i. s -1.: he !< ·i n d of intelligence that one would not (~X flE~ C i·. ·i-. 0 C 0 fll E:' f r• 0 10 p e 0 p 1. ~~ IAI'.'i. 1: h any dr:!gr·E!E! of common SE!ns~~ or con c l'! r· n abo u i: 1·.: h <"! f u t. u r· l~ o f the country. The wholE! histor·y of our Province has been because of a lack - a lack - of attention to .-!:hat ve::~r·y impor·l~.ant ·.'Lssue.

I wouJ.d · J.ikE! to commend the conunc?.nt of my colleagur->., thi3.t. tE!chnology is · ne>t gE!091"aphic s p E! c i. r :i. c . 0 n (:~ (I F 1.: h ('! p r· 0 b 1. E! rn ~; IJ..l e have had is r'E!]ying totally, 100 p <"! r· c: E~ n l: , o n 1: h t;! l ... e c h n o 1 o g .i. c a l advancement of others, and then, dfl:or·· Lhl:! f<:lcl.:, tr·y:i .ng i·.o E:!lflpl.oy that technology at adde!d cost, i.'ldd l:'c:l i. n c: n n IJ !:'! n ·i. H n c e , .i.nLo our · No . Sl R2'79S

existing resource based infrastructure. There is a b s o 1 u t e 1 y n o r a t. i o n a 1. e f or· t h r:"l 1:: kind of thjnking. Newfoundland has within · its jur·lsdiction an extremely knowledgeable academic community, an extremely knowledge~ble business, engineering, and sc i.nnt lfi.c cowmLin:U-.y. Tht:~y noi•J have t-.hE:1 tools ud.th which to IJJor·k .

In r.lddJ l::i .on to l:hc-) br·;,, ·i,n power, thEH'H has bc->.en around us now i:h~:1 devc,~J.opn1E!I '11: of~ rn.nnbt:H ' of CE:ll'lhH'S of E:~XCE!] J E:HICB Which lAJi] 1 d J.l.OI.I.J d 1'1 dl,1.j f II J l 0 l: 0 f i'lf;li.I.J technology to bE:1 lAJOtnkE:!d upon, to b ~~ cJ E:~ lJ C'!

J 0 p e c:J 1: 0 l'f1 r:-1 k 0 lfl 1:~ r'Hl.i n '.!J lc 1.1} gct:ins fo1n ::indutd:iny :i.n this P r· o tJ i. n c E:l , n o i: I: h e lt~ ~ s 1: o f 1.1.1 h .i c h i s t h e S p r·tJ n g p r o j e c t . o n E:~ o f t h E:' rnos t r.ldvanc:.:~d lechnol.ogi.t-:~s i.n l.:h1-:~ world todcty, to gr·ow vegetablE!S in a n e n v i r o nrn e n 1:.

IJJ h :i. c h d o e s n o 1:. allow and does not promote and does not need any kind of disinfE!Ctants, any kind of sprays, a b s o 1 u t e l..y to x i c f r· c,, t-:1 • i:l to t a 11 y controlled environment which produces the most pEH'fect, the absolutely most perfect vegetable 0 r• p t' 0 d U C t t h c;1 t C i.Hl b 1:.~ C 0 n S Ll rn E! ci by the human being; totally contr·o1led, iH1 c0n'i-.i.r ·el.y rwtAJ technology, and for somebody to S a y 0 t' i·. () b e l. i (:' V (:~ I p () l. ·i. 1:. •i.

C o:'\ l. l. y () r' otherwise, that. th:i s should not or· c o ul. d n o t h a p p f'! n 'i. n o u r· P t' o IJ oi. n c e • I l::hink :)s to-LaJ.Jy :irTE~sponsible. l:·or· d rH:•tAJ pr·oduct dt!lH~l.optneni·. i:u havE:~ to ~~o thl"ough th~' rn:lcr·oscopj _c ;Hli:1l.ys ·i.s U1di: is be ·i.119 S'-199'~s h,,d by c E:'r' tc:d n mE'! m b e I" s o p p o s j t e :i s '1: o l : a ll . y u I'll'' r:! ;:1l ·i, s I. ·i. c .:t n d UI"JCICCep·t .ctblE:l. H OIAJ tell' I p~wpl.C:~, inventol" !< 1 nd of r-1ll of a pE!rson, or· a gl"oup of or·~~ bus'i.nt:'SS, or dn subject himself to that publ.i.c scr·ul:'i.ny?

To 111ak!:'! this information ava:iJ.able to lAJhoevc-:'!r tJJa n 1:. s to USE!. ·i.t, L2796 June 8, 1988 Vol XL ignoring lhe fact that there is certain things of confidentiality 'ln any project, and to lAJanl :- to expose all of that throught judi. c:i.c!l 1. ~!.nqLJ "i.r·i .c,, s, s pe cicll . enquir'iE!S, is just thE! smoke and rn:i.r·ror· polil ·.:i.cs tAJhi.ch Cll"l-:! bc'!..i .nq played on a VE!ry, VE!ry important subjc-:~cl~. Thn fll":i.nc::i.p 'le of tJJhdl·: tAJt! ar ·r::· debating hE!re :is not Spr·ung .

ThE! pr•i .nc:i.pJ.e of IJ.Jh<:-11 . lllt! r:·1t '(,' dr-~bat ::inq herE:~ is tlte value of nE'!lJJ ·1: t~ c h no 1 u g y i: u 1·: h i. :; P r' o tJ :i. n c f~ • T 11 a 1:. is IAJhat tJJe ar·c,~ debating, Mt". Spei:1kur·. And l:.hd ·i·: i,!; l·:hf:! pr·ubl., :!trl wt t h the d (-:'!batE:~ -t. hat :is go ::i. n g on h c~ r· '''! , i.'l t: o ·1 ·. d l. :i. g n o I" d n c e u F i:: h t'! Fact tha ·t tl'w dc,~vE:!loprnE!I'l'l:: oF l:nchnoJ.ogy ·; n i.:h ·i.~; Pr'ov:-i.ncr-:! lfiUht. be allowed to proceed, u n :~ n c u 1 n b E! t" c,~ d b y '1:: h e small-mindednE!SS of somE! of thoSE! people oppos'ii:e .

I hope tl ~ i.~; not. shar·ed by everybody, and I hope you will f.ind t.hat IJJhE!n so1111::• of these:~ speakers get up they tAJiJ.J. r~::~cogrd.L.e t.hat th.i.s .i.s solfiE!t:IT.inq that we cannot alJ.ow to be donE! (~lsE~lJJ~HH'c;!. You do not-: hcwe to bE! within fifty miJ.es of Toronto to be 1nvo1verl in high technology . Some of the most advanced technology in th is country today exists here :Ln th:is Pr·ov:inCE!, but F o t' s orne r· E~ d s o n , o b v i. o u s 1 y poJttical, certainly without i''d 1: ·i.IHldlc· I i:1 reo Gil s has b(:! ~:! n d:ii~ected on one spt=:~c.i.fic PI"OjE:'C-l .

Ancl I•Jho is go ·i.ng 1-:u br:• l.:h('! lo ~:;( :!r' :Ln -this? It. is going to be;• th,, ~ ~::~nL ·i.r'''' ~;ci.en -l: i.-f ·ic c:ornrnun:i.ly of: th:is Province, - the entire acadE !rnic sysi :(-~ rn in ·t:h ·i.s Pr·ov ·i.ncr~ 1-:ho.it. ·i.s located in our Memorial Un:i.,Jer·s:i .l.:y, het'(~ and ·i.n Cor·rH :!r