VOL. 3 THIRD SESSION OF THE THIRTY-NINTH GENE~L ASSEfiBLY OF NEWFOUNDLAND PRELHUNARY UNEDI~FD TRANSCRIPT HOUSE OF ASSJ?r1LBY FOR THE PERIOD: 3:00 o.m. - 6:00 o.rn. TUESDAY, APRIL 17, 1984 NO. 26

April 17, 1984 The House met at 3:00 P.M. Mr. Speaker in the Chair. Tape No. 1061 MR. SPEAKER (Russell): Order, please~ STATEMENTS BY MINISTERS: NM - 1 MR. SPEAKER: the Council. The hon. President of SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear~ MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, on March 12 I wrote the Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources for Canada (Mr. Chretien) requesting deferral of the Federal Cabinet's aoornval of the National Energy Board's decision permitting substantial exports of power from Quebec to New York.

Under the National Energy Board Act, approval of the Federal Cabinet is needed before Quebec could export power to that Americal State. The basis of the Province's request was Newfoundland needs energy. The effect of Canadian law is to assurP. enerqy not be exported when needed by a Canadian Province. '!hat particular Act says to pennit energy exports, the energy sought to be exported I!U.lSt be surplus to Canadian needs.

In view of this, it seems a quite reasonable request that the federal government defer approval until Quebec had shown,it was prepared to meet our needs before sending power to an American State. It seemed to us that the patent inconsistency of stating a Canadian Province required availability of a tramission line, before recognition of its energy needs, while an American State was to be given power which \'lould enable a line to be constructed, should have been apparent to the Government of Canada.

Surely, that in itself would demand at least a deferral if not an outright rejection of the Energy Board's decision. 2826

April 17, 1984 Tape No. 1061 NM - 2 MR. MARSHALL: The letter of March 12 requesting deferral was not made public until my statement giving government's reaction to the Board's decision was made to the House of Assembly on April 6. And I believe members will recall that. 2827

April 17,1984 Tape No. 1062 ah-1 MR. MARSHALL: The delay in publicizing this request was deliberate in that the interest of the negotiations with Quebec lest it interfere with receipt of the long-awaited position of Quebec concerning the matter. It was also felt this would give Mr. Chretien a great degree of latitude to deal more effectively with the request than publication might otherwise have afforded. Now, Mr. Speaker, on April 6 I indicated no reply had been received from Mr. Chretien. Today I can state we still await a reply from the "federal government.

However, we have been advised that the federal Cabinet has approved these exports and this approval was given on April 5, This advice came from a telex received from the National Energy Board on April 13 when the Secretary to the Board asked for this government's position with respect to its application for a rehearing in view of Ottawa's approval of the Board's decision permitting exports. We, therefore, have the situation, Mr.

Speaker, where the federal government has made a decision without even replying to a reasonable request on behalf of the people of this Province that Newfoundland's legitimate needs be addressed. Ottawa has chosen to ignore even addressing or concerning itself with the claim of this _Province relating to the basic rights of its residents as citizens of Canada. I am tabling a copy of this telex. And, Mr. Speaker, it is very brief so I will read it. This is the telex that was received on Friday from the National Energy Board. 2828

April 17,1984 Tape No . 1062 ah -2 HR .MARSHALL: This is a direct quo .te: "The Board has received your letter dated April 5, 1984 "- and it will be remembered that that \vas the letter asking for a rehearing -"to which was attached your application reque sting the boa rd to review its January,l984 de cision authorizing the expo rt of energy and power by Hydro -Quebec to the United States . "The Board notes that the licences referred to in the said applic ation received Governor -in -Council approval on 5 April 1984 . 1' In light of this fact , and in light of the provisions of

Section 84 of the NEB Act, the Board, before requesting comments from other parties on the application 1 wishes Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro to con£irm its intention to proceed with its application for review as filed,or whether it would intend , for example, to amend its application . Th e Board \vould appreciate receiving your comments on thls matter by ~-Jednesday , 18 Ap ril 1984 ." And, Mr . Speaker, the Board has our comments in crystal clear ,unmistakable language to the effect that we intend to proceed with it notwithstanding 28 29

::. April 17, 1984 Tape 1063 EC - 1 MR. MARSF..ALL: this action by the federal government in completely and absolutely ignoring the legitimate requests of the people of this Province that they defer - you note, not reject, but that they llefer-approval of the National Energy Board's decision until appropri- ate consideration could be given to its implications and until representations could be made with respect to it and,most importantly, that the needs of this Province for energy could be recognized. So this telex is attached, and also a copy of the Province's request to ~x.

Chretien, contained in my letter of March 13. It has already been filed in this House, but I will file it again for complete information. No~l, I request all members' attention to the terms of ~y letter. I suggest it was framed in civil and reasonable terms, setting out the real concerns of Newfoundland in a matter which Ottawa must know has been of vital concern to this Province for some time. The letter ends stating my willingness to meet with the federal minister if he required further details. It is obvious neither the federal minister nor the Government of Canada required further details and, Mr.

Speaker, indeed, one can only conclude that Ottawa was completely disinterested in even addressing the interests of this Province. With this and other similar reactions of Mr. Chretien and his colleagues to attempts by this Province to put its position firmly on a civil and diplomatic basis, there should be no doubt in anyone's mind where the fault of deteriorating federal/provincial relations lie. It should not be hard to see why it is hard to conclude agreements. This is another example, ~rr. Speaker, where reasonable requests 2830

April 17, 1984 Tape 1063 EC - 2 MR. MARSa~LL: have been ignored and civility treated with considered conte ~~ t. Now, ~tr . Speaker, I mean, it just boggles the mind that this type of thing could occur in Canada. This was a legitil:late request made unde=- the law of the Canadian Government that the federal Cabinet defer approval of this National Energy Board's decision to allow Quebec to export 3)01-rer that Newfoundland needs. NO\v , they did not even, ~.r .

S.9eaker - understand ! -they did not even res~ond to that letter; they did not give reasons why they gave the approval, they did not inform us they gave the approval, they just allO\ved us to hear about it indirectly. So, t-~.r. Speaker, that situation surely is completely and absolutely untenable. It is another example of the frustration that this gover~~ ent feels in dealing with the present administration in Ottawa and in attempting to get justice 2831

April 17, 1984 Tape No. 1064 HJ - 1 MR. HARSHALL: and equity for Newfoundlanders by asserting our position within the Canadian Confederation. And in conclusion, Hr. Speaker, I noted the last time that Hr. Chretien was here,in the environs of this House,he was treated in a friendly way and he was given the customary type of welcome that Newfoundland accords '::o people in Mr. Chretien's position. Nevertheless, Mr. Speaker, he went out and he ~ade those announcements with respect to the licences. Now,unfortunately,I am rather sorry that the unelected Liberal is not here in the House today because he responded, Mr.

Speaker, to that by saying that Hr. Chretien does not need to speak to the Government of the Province of Newfoundland with respect to offshore matters. I wonder whether the Liberal Opposition are going to condone this type of action and how are they going to justify this type of action from the Government of Canada, not even replying to a request; a legitimate request made in the interest of the people of Newfoundland qn a matter of vital importance to the Province. HR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER (Russell) MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker. The bon. the Leader of the Opposition. Mr.

Speaker, first of all let me say that here we go again, the squabbling and the war and the fighting continues,and the bon. gentleman continues to make Hinisterial Statements in this bon. House admitting failure. 0ne 1110uld get the impression, by the 1vav, Mr. Sp~ake~ from listening to the bon. gentleman with his words of war and threats, one 1;-1ould get the impression that he is laying the ground1;-10rk for an issue for the next ~rovincial election. I would not be at all surprised, Mr. Speaker, but in the Fall you will see the Premier pull the plug again and go to the people,the issue being the - 2832

April 17, 1984 MR. r4ARSHALL: MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Tape No. 1064 MJ - 2 A point of order, Mr. Speaker . Order , please! The hon. the President of the Council on a point of order. MR . MARSHALL: The hon. gentleman is responding to a Ministerial Statement . Se does not call an election and he can thank his good luck that he does not have to respond to one . The fact of the matter is, Mr. S9eaker, ne responds to that statement . Let us hear how the Liberal Opposition is reacting to the way in which the rights of the Province of Newfoundland have been trampled on once again. MR.

ROBERTS : To that point of order, Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for the Strait of Belle Isle to that point of order. MR. ROBERTS: rf I ma~, r1r . Speaker, the hon. the minister,of course,is revealing once again how very silly he can be 1 and we all know that that is very silly indeed. He came in and he made a statement that is a combative, tendentious, argumentative statement - and that is within the rules - and then when my 2833

April 17, 1984 Tape 1065 PK - 1 MR. ROBERTS: hon. friend, the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) gets up ·and gives far better than he go~, the hon. gentleman for St. John's East (Mr. Marshall) springs to his feet and then attempts to debate the matter yet again. Ministerial statements ought not to be occasions for debate, they ought to be occasions for annouBcements. The hon. gentleman for St. John's East, with Your Honour's assent, and I am not quarrelling in any way or quibbling,of course,went ahead and made all sorts of argumentative statements.

Surely in reply tit ought to be allowed for tat,and if there is a tit over there, there ought to be a tat from over here. And there is a tit over there and there ought to be a tat over here,so there is no point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell): Order, please! To that point of order, certainly the han. President of the Council was recognized on a ministerial statement, the Leader of the Opposition being allowed half the time to respond to it. The Chair,however 1 does have some difficulty in seeing what relevance an upcoming provincial election had with the ministerial statement. MR.

NEARY: It has a lot to do with it, Mr. Speaker. What they are doing,they are laying the groundwork for an issue of the next provincial general election., "The han. gentleman gets up and he changes his voice so he can sound highly indignant,to try to get the intention 1no doubt,of the parliamentary press gallery, highly indignant about these things. He says it was a legitimate request. Tvell, Mr. ~peaker, the hon. gentleman might have thought it was a legitimate request, but certainly the Governur-in-Council ,the Cabinet,legitimately has the right to say no. MR. MARSHALL: Do you not think they should respond? 2834

April 17, 1984 Tape 1065 PK - 2 MR. NEARY: Look ,they are fed up with responding to the hon . gentleman. His war of words accomplished nothing. MR . ROBERTS: change his style . ~1R. NEARY: I thought the Premier was going to The Premier tried to change his style last night over in New Brunswick. He is ~ow going low -keyed, but - SOME HON. M&~ERS: Oh , oh ! MR. NEARY: - now he has the ~1inister of Energy (Mr. Dawe) firing the broadsides . They are not going to change, Mr. Speaker.

The fact of the "matter is that Quebec offered this Province during negotiations of the package t.;~at is on the Table now ,that in addition to the 300 megawatt s of electricity, some of it 1 granted 1 being used already in Labrador, they offered to make up 800 megawatts of electricity to the Island of Newfoundland and that would enable us, it would make it feasible to build a transmission line to bring that 800 megawatts of power to the Island of Newfoundland. The National Energy Board, Mr .

Speaker, must th ink the hon. gentlemen are crack::C to go up and say, Look , we want power , we need power for the Island of Newfoundland . And the National Energy Board says, Where is your transmission line? 2835

April 17, 1984 Tape No. 1066 SD - 1 MR. NEARY: The Government of Quebec already offered the hon. gentlemen that in the present package they have on the table. They also offered to finance the Churchill Falls Corporation 1 which is running into financial difficulties, to develop the Lower Churchill, bring the power to the Island of Newfoundland or export it 1 and develoo Five Rivers in Labrador. Now, Mr. Speaker, t_J,.ev ''lant to have their cake 3Ild eat it too. MR. SPEAKER (Russelll: Resources and Lands. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. POWER: Order, please! The hon. member's time has elapsed. The hon.

Minister of Forest Hear, hear. Mr. Speaker, this statement refers to the sale by Bowater of their Corner Brook newsprint mill and other Newfoundland assets as announced some time ago. In December, a co-operative divestiture progr~mme was developed by th.e Government of Ne;vfoundland and RcJr,m.ter l"'.orx>ration. nresentation to a number of prospective .buyers '"ere made, beginning in January of 1984, by consultants of the Province and Bowater. About 150 companies, Mr. Speaker, were approached .by our divestiture consultants and the Corner Brook investment opportunity was well received_ . .t-1onday·1.

April 16, 1984, was set as the date for the submission of proposals, .both to buy and to develop the Corner Brook mill. A number of proposals have now · been received and these must .be assessed carefully to ensure selection of the best proposal, both from the standpoint of Bowater and the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. Government will be examining the proposals in terms· of their viability and the amount of long-term commitment by potential investors to capital investment in Corner Brook.

Bowater will be examining the proposals to see which of them offer the best balance in the interests of its shareholders and its employees. It is anticipated 2836

April 17, 1984 Tape No. 1066 MR. POWER: that the necessary capital investment programme in the interests of all parties will require financial support both from the Province and the federal government. so - 2 Over the next couple of weeks Bowater and government will be evaluating these proposals and discussing them with the federal government to obtain the necessary financial support for capital development. Mr. Speaker, meetings will be arranged quickly with each of the potential buyers in order to ensure that all elements of their proposals for development are fully addressed • .

The Corner Brook Advisory Committee will be given an opportunity to assist government in selecting the best development option for Corner Brook. The selection of the best proposal will require intensive negotiations over the next few weeks. Some of the bidders have requested anonymity while the evaluation process is going on. Because of the complexity of these negotiations and the large amounts of money involved, it is impossible to determine, at this time, when an announcement can be made. In the meantime, Mr. Speaker, no further comment will be made by government or by Bowater.

Government has assigned top priority to this matter and you can be assured that the Province wishes to fi-nalize with Bowater the selection of a buyer and the approval of a capital development plan as soon as possible. Thank you. SOME -HON". MEMBERS : Hear. h.ear. 2837

April 17, 1984 Tape No. 1067 NM - 1 MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon. member · for Fogo. MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, let me start off my reply by saying that the Opposition on this side shares the hope that has been expressed by the minister in his statement. The people of Corner Brook have lived long enough with the uncertainty that they have been living in for the past number of months. Having said that, Mr. Speaker, there are still a number of questions which remain if negotiations fail.

The minister has not assured this House, or indeed the people of Corner Brook, that if the ~egotiations that a-re presently ongoing do fail . that the government has some contingency plans to see that the Corner Brook mill is kept open past December 31, which I understand is the closing date for the Corner Brook mill,that Bowater . intends to get out. And the minister should answer those questions. He should have those contingency plans in place and he has not assured this House whether indeed he has them.

Now the minister also said in his statement that he has a number of proposals, He has not said how many 1and that is important because it is important to know what the options of the qovernrnent are in relation to the divestiture of Bowater. He says that they have approached 150 companies and that they have a number of proposals. So it is important too that the minister answer those questions. How many proposals does he have? What are his options in this case? I do not expect him to divulge the details of them, of course, but it is important that he say just how many proposals 2838

April 17, 1984 Tape No. 1067 NM - 2 MR. TULK: he does have, The important question that he has to answer is this one: Is he going to assure the people of Corner Brook that if those negotiations that are presently ongoing fail, is the Bowater mill, the Corner Brook mill, whether it is under the corporation of Bowater or not, is the Corner Brook mill still going to be in operation? So, Mr.

Speaker, while I can sum up by saying that we on this side share the hope that is in the minister's Ministerial Statement, the minister has still not given full assurance that indeed the Corner Brook mill will be there after December 31. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Before we proceed 1 it is a pleasure for me to welcome to the gallery today Mr. David Rooney, the MP for Bonavista-Trinity-Conception. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER: the Environment. SOME HON . MEMBERS: MR. ANDREWS: Hear, hear~ The hon. Minister of Hear, hear~ Mr. Speaker, last Friday I made a submission to the House of Commons Sub-Committee on Acid Rain.

This submission updated a previous submission made to the same sub-committee three years ago. I would like now to take this opportunity to table the submission before the House so that my hon. colleaques·may have an opportunity to review it. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: I will not read it, but I wish to table a detailed, written response to 2839

April 17, 1984 Tape No. 1067 NH - 3 PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Chretien's statement, that he made in Newfoundland a little while ago concerning offshore resources. In the interest of information and providing a detailed response, I would wish to tabke it now for han. members, 2840

April 17, 1984 Tape No. 1068 SD - 1 PREMIER PECKFORD: so that the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) and others will get a chance to see why they were so wrong in trying to support Mr. Chretien's position last week. SOME HON. MEMBE -RS : Hear, hear. ORAL QUESTIONS MR. SPEAKER (Russell ): The hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: ~r. Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister of Energy {_Mr. Marshall) if it is the Province's intention to make an application under the natural disaster programme for assistance to all the people in the St.

John •· s and metropolitan area who suffered storm damage as a result of the recent s·torm? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. President of the Council. MR. MARSHALL : Mr. Speaker, the formulation of that application is already in progess. M._T{. NEARY : Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, would the hon. gentleman indicate to the House if, in the formation of that application, it is merelv an ap~lication to assist Newfoundland Hydro and '\le'·'foundl'ind Li(]'ht anc1 no• ·rer Coml)anv?

Yesterday the hon. aentleman indicated to the Eouse that there was damage to the extent of between $4 million or $5 million. I know these were estimates, a hall!Jark c· ~. ~qure, but is that the application that the hon. gentleman is talking about now? MR._ SPEAKER: The hon. President of the Council. I MR. MARSRALL 1 Mr. Speaker, we will make the application as large as possible within the constraints of the pertinent regulations that apply to it. Certainly Newfoundland Hydro 1 and we believe Newfoundland Light and Power as well 1 will be covered by it. But the extent of the coverage is something 2841

April 17, 1984 Tape No. 1068 SD - 2 MR. MARSHALL: that we are in the process of ascertaining. And,as I have told the bon. gentlemen ,we are making up an application . .And as he knmo~s, as I am sure he <·TiJ.l appreciate, everybody will appreciate, the full extent of the damage has not yet been determined. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker. MR .. SPEAKER; (Russell): MR. NEARY: The hon. Leader of the Opposition. Mr. Speaker, would the hon. gentleman give some indication to the House what time frame he is talking about to make this application?

Will it be done virtually· immediately in view of the serious nature of the disaster? Could the hon. gentleman tell the House if the application will be going forward to the federal mini:ster, Mr ~· Pinard, :Defore the end of this week? MR. SPEAKER: The bon. President of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: Mr, Speaker, the full application, of course, can only go forward when we have all the data assembled. I can only say that, you know, we are working on that at the present time and the application is being form~lated and it will be sent off as soon as possible.

In the meantime 1 th.e federal government will be advised before the end of this week of our intention to make this application 1as they have already been advised. I can tell the hon. gentleman that 2842

April 17,1984 Tape 1069 PK - 1 MR. MARSHALL: yesterday I was in contact with the member for Parliament for St. John's East (Mr. McGrath) and he very kindly brought the matter up in the interest of the people of Newfoundland on the floor of the House of Commons. So the Government of Canada is already aware of the fact of our intention to make an application, but we will proceed further with that by the end of this week,and even further when we have all of the data available. MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER!Russell): on a supplementary. MR. NEARY: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. The han. Leader of the Opposition Mr.

Speaker, for the sake of clarification,could the han. gentleman inform the House if under the natural disaster formula private companies can qualify for assistance? Could the han. gentleman enlighten the House as to whether or not he is aware if private companies such as Newfoundland Hydro,which is a Crown corporation,or Newfoundland Light and Power Company can qualify for assistance under this programme? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. President of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, Newfoundland Hydro is not a private corporation, it is a government corporation, it is a Crown corporation.

So that will certainly qualify. Newfoundland Light 'anc1 Power is a public utility and has a different characteristic than simply a private corporation and we believe that is covered. But, I mean, I am not in the habit of making statements o£ that nature until we examine all of the ramifications and all of the applicable regulations, and as soon as we determine that we will be able to know what 2843

April 17, 1984 Tape 1069 PK - 2 MR. MARSHALL: the answer to that question is. In the meantime 1 we have been in contact with Light and Power and we have been in contact with Hydro and we are going to process the application on the basis that all are covered. MR. NEARY: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The han. Leader of the Opposi t'ion, a supplementary. MR. NEARY: Now, Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman mentioned a couple of times that they will proceed with the application when they collect certain pertinent data. · Would the han. gentleman tell the House what kind of data he is talking about?

MR. SPEAKER: The han. President of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: The han. gentleman knows the answer to that question, it should be obvious to him. I mean, the number of ?Oles that were down. Yesterday I advised the House it was estimated there were 1,000 with Newfoundland Light and Power, and at least 43 steel structures of Hydro. There were wires involved : When you formulate your damages, and what your damages consist of is your estimation of replacement of the facilities that are destroyed. The cost of replacement 2844

April 17, 1984, Tape 1070, Page 1 -- apb MR. MARS HALL : has to be determined, and also the full extent of the facilities that have been destroyed, and that is in the process of being done now. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell ) : the Opposition. MR. NEARY: The hon. the Leader of It is obvious to me that the hon. gentleman does not have a clue about what he is talking about. The hon. gentleman is primarily concerned about Newfoundland Hydro and Newfoundland Light and Power. Well, let me ask him about the individual home-owner. Under the programme, Mr.

Speaker, the federal programme, it is my understanding that individual home-owners will be able to claim damages under the natural disaster formula. Now, would the han. gentleman tell the House if the machinery, the mechanism will be put in place at once so that home-owners who had storm damage will be able to make an application? Where will they make the application? To whom will they make the application? And, Mr.

Speaker, will the hon. gentleman put out the message to the home-owners that the Province is going to make an application so that they can keep their receipts as to any damage that may have been done to their property and to their homes? This is the most important thing. It is the residents that I am concerned about. The han. gentleman seems only concerned about private companies, by the way, who previously have not qualified under this programme. It is only home-owners who can qualify under this programme. And, Mr.

Speaker, I would like to ask the han. gentleman if steps will be taken to give home-owners an opportunity to make an application soon so that they can keep their receipts and they will be in a position to claim damages? MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the President of the Council. 2845

April 17, 1984, Tape 1070, Page 2 -- apb MR. MARSHALL: Now, there is an han. gentleman who, I am sure, would make politics out of a holocaust if he thought he could. Mr. Speaker, this is too important a matter, this tragedy, this hardship that has been endured by the people has .been too deep for the han. gentleman to be allowed to stand here in the >!ouse and rrak:e politics. Now, I have long since learned not to proceed on the basis of the han. gentleman's understanding.

He has the habit of getting up in the House and making all sorts of statements with respect to matters, that his understanding is this and his understanding is that, and they are based on rumour and they are not based on foundation. I can only tell the han. gentleman this, that the application that will be made to the federal government will be made to the federal government to get the broadest base of coverage possible that is available under the federal regulations.

It is my understanding at the present time that this would extend to damage of capital equipment, but I can tell the han. gentleman-unlike the han. gentleman there opposite, I do not presume to be infallible about anything,- that if the regulations allow a b~oader application 1 that we will 2846

April 17, 1984 Tape No. 1071 MJ - l MR. MARSHALL : see that the applicatiorr is made in the broadest manner possible. Newill do ever ything possible to assist people .,.,ho are entitled to assistance , but it is very wrong for the hon . gentleman to get up in this House today, Mr. Speaker, after some people have incurred financial loss,and give them the impression that they are definitely going to be compensated from government sources when he obviously does not know for sure whether they are going to be.

As I say 1 at the present time my information is that it is going to extend to capital losses of the '·nature that I have described. If it does, I would be even happier than the hon. gentleman is when he exultswith Mr. Chretien and his colleagues in Ottawa from time to time and we will do our utmost to see that it is expanded to the broadest range possible. MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER (Russell) Opposition. ~ffi. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary. The hon. the Leader of the Mr.

Speaker, I do not begrudge assistance to the Newfoundland Light and Power Company and the Newfoundland Hydro 1 but let me tell the hon. gentleman that this programme is designed to take care of people like the ones involved in the flooding that 'tle have had in recent times. That was under the natural disaster formula and the hon. gentleman is not a.,.1are of it, Mr. Speaker. B'ecause if the hon. gentleman were aware of it, he would jump immediately, he t.,ould move immediately to make an application under the natural disaster programme for assistance for home-owners.

I know he sympathizes with the big corporations - MR. SPEAKER: Order,please! Order, please! The han. the Leader of the Opposition is entering into a debate on this issue and 2847

April 17, 1984 Tape No. 1071 ~_J - 2 MR. SPEAKER (Russell} : perhaps he should pose a · question. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I have to take all the abuse and all the rudeness from the hon. gentleman and I am not allowed to reply. Mr . Speaker, are we turning this into a full dictatorship, I ask the han. gentleman? ' Mr. Speaker, let me, for the benefit of the hon. gentleman, say that I am usually right when I make these statements. The hon. gentleman can smart all he wants and he can be as sore as he wants. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please! The hon. the Leader of the Opposition (Mr.

Neary} seems, appears at least, to be ignoring the ruling of the Chair that he pose a question. MR. -'NEARY : Well,I would not want to ignore Your Honour for all the money in the world. Your Honour is so fair and proper that I would not want to ignore Your Honour. Let me ask the hon. gentleman, Mr. Speaker, what is the formula under the natural disaster programme? Cari the hon. gentleman tell me what the formula is that will be used in the event that assistance can be forthcoming for home-owners in this Province? Does the hon. gentleman know what the formula is? Has he taken the trouble to find out what it is?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the President of the Council. MR. MARSHALL : Mr. Speaker, you know 1 the hon. gentleman keeps persisting in asking questions. I have responded to the hon. gentleman and I do not see any point in responding any further. I think I have given him a full and complete answer. _ I must say the hon. gentleman is getting rather testy today. 2848

April 17, 1984 Ta pe No . 1071 MJ - 3 !-1R. NEARY : No I am not. MR. MARSHALL : I mean, he get s u~ and he mak es little sarcastic statements with respect to th e Speaker in the eou se, which we will ignore because the hon. gentleman has the habit of being te st y. ~ - NEARY : You can res~ond to all this but I cannot rep ly. ~1R . MARSHALL: ~1r . Speaker, I am not going to get into a legalistic type of debate with the hon . gentleman. All I can tell the hon. gentleman is that the application is going to be made for the broadest type of coverage possible and we will be making a statement on 2849

April 17,1984 Tape No. 1072 MR. MARSHALL: that, a definitive statement on that 1 as to the full extent of the coverage when it has been absolutely determined. It is not our habit to get up in the House and make statements that the general public are going to rely on to their detriment which is going to cause concern. I do know that this programme now covers losses in the nature of capital losses,and we will ah-1 see that it will be extended to the farthest degree possible for the protection of the people of Newfoundland. And the people of Newfoundland, Mr. Speaker, are protected as well.

He talks about protecting the big corporations. I mean 1 Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro happens to be a corporation that is owned by the people of Newfoundland 1 and it is very much in their interests and all our interests that we get reconpensed as far as possible for the damages which we have suffered,because if we do not it impinges on other factors which will affect the people. And the same way with Newfoundland Light and Power 1 the same way with any loss that is here.

We will see that we avail to the fullest extent possible of the federal programme and we will be in a better position to respond comprehensively to that as soon as we get all the data in. Because you cannot,obviously, formulate before you. a detailed application until you have the data MR. NEARY: MR.SPEAKER (Russell): Opposition. MR.NEARY: 2850 Mr. Speaker. The hon. Leader of the A supplementary Mr. Speaker.

April 17,1984 Tape No. 1072 ah-2 MR.NEARY: By the way,these are not statements Mr. Speaker. I do not make statements. I merely ask the hon. gentleman questions. And the hon. gentleman can twist my words all he wants 1 but if the people do not get compensated for their damage it will be the fault of the administration and the hon. gentleman. It will be their fault. It will be their fault for not taking advantage of the generosity of this federal Liberal programme. Mr.

Speaker, if the hon. gentleman is not aware he should consult with the Director of EM0 1because I consulted with him before I came to the House this afternoon and I got the formula. Is the hon. gentleman not aware that the formula on the first half million dollars is fifty/fifty cost shared. The second million,seventy-five /twenty-five by the Government of Canada.

And is the hon. gentleman not aware that on the third million it is shared on a ninety / ten basis 1 which means if the Province puts up $1 million that they recover $24 million from the Government of Canada to help people who ha ve their propert y and homes damaged during this storm? MR. WARREN: MR.SPEAKER (Russell ): Council. MR. MARSHALL: He did not even know it. The han. President of the Mr. Speaker, we know all that. It is not the money, it is not the percentages, it is the extent of the coverage that ·the han. gentleman was asking me. 2851

April 17, 1984 Tape 1073 EC - 1 MR. MARSHALL: I know why the hon. gentleman wants to get up. He wants to play what amounts to be politics with respect to a matter that we prefer to treat seriously. Now, at the present time, the Province is not fully aware of the extent of the coverage under this disaster programme. And at present, our officials - they were at it this morning, they are at it this afternoon - are in contact with federal officials~ and the federal officials, ~x.

Speaker, in relation to the facts that occurred, are not sure either and they are checking, and it will all be formulated when we get all the data, all of the information, we get the application of the regulations to thos~ particular facts. The provincial government is working in co-operation with the relevant branch of the federal government on this and both orders of government are doing their utmost to see that coverage to the fullest extent possible will be realized. Now, the hon. gentleman gets up and makes statements, for example, 'Does he know?' 'Does the minister know - MR. NEARY: not a statement. HR.

MARSHALL: this?' MR. NEARY: MR. MARSHALL: That is a question; that is - that it covers 75/25 over That is right. Sure, we know the 9ercentages. The han. gentleman can say what he likes but, you know, that is the situation. I have endeavoured to answer as civilly as I possibly can, at least as civilly as you can answer a question from the hon. gentleman, and I have given the information. The han. 2852

April 17, 1':184 Tape 1073 EC - 2 MR. MA.,-qSHALL: gentleman \"ants to get up and try to say, 'Oh, the government does not know,' or 'This minister does not know,' and play his small-minded little games. But the fact of the matter is, Mr. Speaker, I have answered the question; I have answered it comprehensively. An application will be made for the fullest coverage possible. At the present time, the various officials of Hydro and Light and Power and of the government are determining the extent of the damage.

At the same time, officials of the · provincial and federal governments are determining the extent of the coverage. There is nothing sinister about this and it is not a case of one-upmanship. What we will do is we and the federal government will see that the ~eople of Newfoundland get the fullest coverage possible to compensate them for the damages that they have suffered as a result of this hardship over the weekend. MR. NEARY: A supplementary, ~I. S~eaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell): A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition. MR.

NEARY: Let me say to the hon. gentleman that I am not playing political games, I am merely trying to uncover negligence and stupidity on the part of the administration. If I did not bring it to the attention of the han. gentleman, he would not know that programme was available and he would deny homeowners an opportunity to claim damages in the event that Ottawa approves the application, Mr. Speaker .. 2853

April 17, 1984 Tape No. 1074 NM - 1 MR. NEARY: And the hon. gentleman, is he not aware that in the case of the flooding in Badger that,under the natural disaster formula 1 no assistance was available to private companies, the assistance was made available to the homeowners? Is the hon. gentleman aware of that? And, Mr. Speaker, what I am asking the hon. gentleman is to highlight the importance of the homeowners, the damage to homes, in this disaster that just occurred on Friday the 13. That is what I am asking the han. gentleman.

Do not deny these people an opportunity to make claims in the event that Ottawa approves the application. So, Mr. Speaker, let me ask the han. gentleman again, what steps will be taken to advise home-owners, and when will the steps be taken to advise home-owners that they may or may not be entitled to make claims? AN HON. MEMBER: MR. NEARY: They may or may not? They may or may not, that is right, depending on whether Ottawa approves the application. But the first thing that has to happen, the Province has to make the application.

And once the Province makes the application ,then it depends on Ottawa whether or not the application is approved. So, Mr. Speaker, it looks to me like if the application is not made s~on, and people are not given an opportunity to make their claims, because I am sure when the hon. gentleman is collecting his data that it come not only from Newfoundland Light and Power Company and from Hydro but from home-owners. Home-owners 2854

April 17, 1984 Tape No. 1074 MR. NEARY: should be given an opportunity, Mr. Speaker, would the hon. gentleman tell the House what opportunity will be given to homeowner s to state what the damage to their property ~as? MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : of the Council. M:R . MARSHALL: The hon. the Pr esi dent Mr . Speaker, did you notice when the hon . aentleman got up in the Que stion Period, he was definite. He said, NM - 2 "Oh,yes, The homeowners are covered and the provincial government is not providing for it." All of a sudden, Mr. Speaker, out of the blue he realizes from a response that Ottawa is not sure.

So now he fr~~es the quest~on, 'w hen Ottawa decides: That is the mentality of the hon. gentleman, Mr. Speaker . That is the way the hon. gentleman thinks . You know,he ge ts up in this Hou se, ~rr. Speaker, and he makes a statment, an unequivocal statement, a definite statement that homeowners are covered and it is the provincial government that are preventing them. Then all of a sudden, Mr. Speaker, terror strikes deep into his heart - MR. NEARY: Is that so? M:R.

MARSHALL : - when he finds that Ottawa, too,may not know· Yo~ know/the Ottawa regulations may not cover them, so that consequently now alJ . nf' a sudden he wonders whether they are going to .be reimbursed after Otta\.,.a decides. Now look, Mr . Speaker , I have already responded to what the hon. gentleman has 2855

April 17, 1984 Tape No. 1075 SD - 1 MR. MARSHALL: stated. He is being an alarmist when he gets up a few days after the disaster and tries to say, 'Oh, people will be precluded from ~aking any applications.' MR. NEARY: big corporations. MR. MARSHALL: Speaker. Listen to him. ~'!R. NEARY: MR. ~1ARSHALL: You are only interested in the I have no such intention. No, Mr. Just the big corporations. I am only thinking of big corporations, yes, Mr. Speaker, big corporations. MR. NEARY: PREMIER PECKFORD: MR. MARSHALL: corporation himself. MR. NEARY: That is righ .t. That is one that is supporting you.

The hon. gentleman is one big And you are one big (inaudible) . MR. MARSHALL: But, 1-ir. Speaker, the hon. gentleman is just being an alarmist. He is trying to make his usual cheap little political points. MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: on a point of order. MR. NEARY: A point of order, !\1r. Speaker. Order, please~ The hon. Leader of t~e Opposition Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman has just made a statement attributing motives to my raising this matter. My purpose for raising this matter is to try to bring it to the attention of the hon. gentleman who has been ignoring it, Mr. Speaker .. SOME HON. !-!EMBERS: Oh, oh. MR.

SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. NEARY: There is a programme there, they have no intention of applying for it - I listened to the hon. gentleman's statement this morning on radio - no intention of applying for it under this progra~me. And if they did they 2856

April 17, 1984 Tape No. 1075 SD - 2 MR. NEARY: were only thinking about the big corporations and not the home-owners. So I am not an alarmist and I would ask the hon. gentleman, Mr. Speaker, to take that back. MR. SPEAKER (Russell ): Order, please!· The point of order raised by the hon. Leader of the Opposition (Hr. Neary), the Chair does not interpret the comments ~ade ~" t!:le l1on. "rec;ident of the Council (Mr. Marshall) as implying motives to the hon. Leader of the Opposition. Certainly it is a difference of opinion between two hon. members. The hon. President of the Council. MR.

HARSHALL : I was not imputing motives, Mr. Speaker, just drawing attention to the lack of consistency and ordinary common sense of the hon. gentleman. The hon. gentleman is just merely, as I say, Mr. Speaker, trying to spread alarm. He is trying to make political points out of a situation that he ought to know better than attem9t to do. I reiterate once again,and I have said it over and over again during the Question Period,that first of all we have to determine th .e full extent of the coverage, The full extent of the coverage is in the process of being determined by federal and provincial officials.

You cannot compare one s·ituation to another. You just cannot compare one to the other, different facts fit different regulations. So after we have that determined and while we are having that determined, we also determine the full extent of the damage. Now until that time occurs, Mr. Speaker, we are not in the position to present an application for payment of the largest amount of money pos ·sible., for the. fullest coverage possible.

Bu.t I think that Newfoundlanders would have more faith in this government then they would in words from th.e hon. gentleman there opposite as to their ability to protect the interests 2857

,. April 17, 1984 Tape No. 1075 SD - 3 MR. MARS BALE: of the people of this Province. And we will be consistent in this as •.ofe have been in other things. l-1R. WP..RREN': MR. SPEAKER (:Ru ssell ) : Xountains . M..~ . WARREN: t.fr. Speaker. The hon. member for Torngat Mr. Speaker, r· have a question for the Minister o£ Social Services lMr . Hickey). It also pertains to •'l'hat happened over the wee ]{end. In light of the;ruelling experience of some of our senior citizens >vho abide in the homes that are licenced oy this government 1wnich have no alternate source of power, 285 8

April 17, 1984 Tape 1076 PK - 1 MR. WARREN: such as happened over the weekend could_ the minister tell the hon. House how many homes that are licenced by his department for senior citizens do not have back~up power in case of an emergency? MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The han. Minister of Social Services. MR. HICKEY: Mr. Speaker, I will have to take that question under advisement. I cannot tell the hon. gentlemen right off the top of my head how many hanes have back,-,up power. SOME HON. !1EMBERS : Oh,oh! IvJR. WARREN: Mr.Speaker, I cannot hear him. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR.

HICKEY: The hon. gentleman must realize Mr. Speaker, that - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. WARREN: I want to hear the minister's answer. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. HICKEY: - licenced boarding homes, Mr.

Speaker, in terms of the number of boarders in a home, range from two or three up to sixty,in one instance, and a number of homes have residents to the number of thirty so, you know, whilst a large licenced boarding home or,say,a fairly large building may have back-up power, I would suggest to the hon. gentleman that for the most part,except for emergency lighting and in keeping with standards which are required in terms of life safety 1 I am not aware that many of the smaller ones have back~up supply. MR. WARREN MR. SPEAKER: Mountains on a supplementary. 2859 Mr. Speaker, a supplementary.

The hon. member for Torngat

April 17, 1984 Tape 1076 PK - 2 MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, it concerns two of the larger or medium-sized homes out in Conception Bay that went for as long as forty-eight or fifty-six hours without 'any back-up power whatsoever for senior citizens who had to be wrapped up in very warm clothing. In ~act, they put in a very terrible weekend. so I would like to ask the minister,in view of the fact that some of the homes that are licenced by his department do not have back-up power, could he advise the han.

House if his department is seriou"l" thi.'lking of making it mandatory forho~es for senior citizens 1 who are unable to look after themselves 1 that those homes will be required to have bac~up emergency power to alleviate any discomfort such as they experienced this past weekend? MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The han. Minister of Social Services. MR. HICKEY: Mr. Speaker, I cannot give this kind of undertaking. I certainly have no hesistancy in saying to the han. gentleman that in fact it is already done. I have asked for a report on how everyone made out during the weekend, if there were any exceptional difficulties.

I am aware of the fact, for example! as I 'das :i.n touch 1-1j.t:1 mv .'lta~f: i.•nc'\ecUately as the difficulties occurred, so I am aware of the fact that my staff, ny o;ociiil •md::ers moni toreri t~1e si tua ti:Jn, ca llerl. all the licenced boarding homes, was in touch with all of the institutions 1etc. 1 to determine how they 2860

April 17, 1984, Tape 1077, Page 1 -- apb MR. HICKEY: were managing. To the best of my knowledge I have not been made aware of any unusual occurrences. I can certainly concur with what the hon. gentleman says, that there was discomfort. People all over the areas which were affected by the loss of power, the shortage of powe~went through a difficult time and were certainly inconvenienced, old and young alike. There were people all over visiting homes looking after senior citizens. Mr. Speaker, I am very much aware of the tremendous effort put forward on a voluntary basis by private citizens.

So I do not.think that we should get the impression that the only people who suffered on the weekend in terms of senior citizens or older people or young people were people confined to boarding homes which have any connection with the government. MR. WARREN: MR. SPEAKER(Russell) : Torngat Mountains. MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker. The hon. the member for The minister made the comment that the senior citizens were looked after. I would like to advise the minister that in one of those homes relatives and friends were not allowed to visit the senior citizens. However, Mr. Speaker, I have another question for the minister.

In view of the fact that many social assistance recipients did require such things as fuel, kerosene, batteries, blankets and so on over the weekend, and

whereas other citizens probably had a few dollars in their pockets and could go and purchase those items to make themselves comfortable, I would like to ask the minister if he has any plans in place whereby those hundreds of social assistance recipients can be looked after in the future if such an event should take place, 2861

April 17, 1984, Tape 1077, Page 2 -- apb MR. WARREN: that the government, the department would assist those people to purchase the essentials needed to make themselves as comfortable as possible? 2862

April 17,1984 Tape No.l078 ah-1 MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The han. Minister of Social Services. MR.HICKEY: Mr. Speaker, as of an ongoing programme, my staff throughout the Province,and in every region there are a number of people who have gone to Armprior taking courses in emergency services, emergency planning, emergency evacuation, a whole range of services of that kind under the broad heading of Emergency Welfare Services. And my staff are well-acquainted and well-equipped and well aware and know exactly what to do and how to respond in times of disaster and emergency.

I can tell the hon. gentleman that I have a case load of twenty thousand some hundred people of one kind and another on social assistance. If he is asking me today can I give him a guarantee that every one of them were called or touched base with over ~the weekend,I can give no such undertaking. But I can tell him that my staff responded in their usual generous way after hours, during regular hours and so on. They are not backward in coming forward on a voluntary basis to help people in distress. The whole basis, · the whole purpose of their existence in terms of their employment is based on emergency situations.

They do not need prodding from me or anybody else to respond to people who are in critical need. MR.SPEAKER: . Order, please!.The time for the Question Period has expired. PRESENTING REPORTS OF STANDING OR SPECIAL COMMITTEES MR. SPEAKER: The han. President of the Council. 2863

April 17,1984 Tape No. 1078 ah-2 MR.MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, I want to table the annual report of Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro forl983. I commend it to the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary). I hope he will read it over the Easter break and he will come back refreshed and in better humour than he has exhibited today. ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS FOR WHICH NOTICE HAS BEEN GIVEN MR.SPEAKER (Russell): The han. Minister of Rural. Agricultural and Northern Development. MR. GOUDIE: Mr.

Speaker, I want to table some information in response to questions raised by the hon. gentleman from Torngat Mountains (Mr.Warren), raised in the Fall sitting, I believe, or the last day of the Fall sitting of the Legislature,having to do with proposal calls for the operation of bulk fuel storage facilities at Postville, Makkovik and Davis Inlet, proposal calls, letters bf rejection and all of that kind of information. MR.SPEAKER: The han. President of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, see, we are not only answering questions in this Session but in previous Sessions. I have the answer, Mr.

Speaker, to questions number 24 and 25 on the Order Paper of March 29 in the name of the hon. member for Mount Scio (Mr.Barry). They are brief so I will give them to him~'All information concerning the projected electrical load growth for Labrador West' is the first part of question 24 and the answer is, at the present time there is sufficient capacity in existing transmission and substation facilities to meet the load requirements for industrial, commercial and domestic purposes in Labrador City and Wabush. However, 2864

April l 7 , 19 8 4 Tape No. 1078 ah-3 MR.MARSHALL: the domestic load in the town of Wabush is expected to grow over the next five years and additional capacity 2865

April 17, 1984 Tape No. 1079 MJ - 1 MR. MARSHALL: will probably have to be added to the town's substation and distribution feeders,to take care of probable increases in conversions to electric heat. In the town of Labrador City the existing town substations and feeders are adequate to supply the growing domestic load. The second part of that question was, 'lihen additional capacity will be needed?' Mr.

Speaker, with respect to that we feel that this is, in fact, a matter which deals with the confidential plans of roc in Labrador City and Nabush Mines in Wabush and it would oe inappropriate to give details on that matter. The next question, question 25: "All reports and studies commissioned since September, 1981 on the revised cost of constructing the Lower Churchill Plant and transmission lines from Quebec to Labrador." Answer: There have been no specific stunies since September 1981 which relate to estimating the re,.rised cost of constructing the Lower Churchill Plant and its related transmission lines, Mr.

Speaker, because of the fact that obviously we have not got the energy situation resolved at the present time. ORDERS OF THE DAY MR. MARSHALL: Order 3, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) Order 3, the Concurrence Motion on the Social Services Committee. The han. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, yesterday when the House adjourned at 6:00p.m. I was asking some questions about Social Services Estimates Committees and I wonder if 2866

April 17, 1984 Ta pe No. 1079 MJ - 2 MR. NEARY: han. gentleman could tell the House who the acting Minister of Health is, I understand the minister is ill? Is there an acting Minister of Health, because I have a number of questions on Health here? MR. MARSHALL: Well,the acting Minister of Health is the Minister of Finance (Dr. Collins) who is out of the "Province at the present time,but you direct the questions, the government can answer them. HR. NEARY: Mr. S!?eaker I will just go on to a couple of other questions. I would like to ask the Minister of Culture, Recreation and Youth (Hr .

Simms) a couple of questions. I want to ask the hon. gentleman about the Norma and Gladys. Tenders were called some time ago for the Norma and Gladvs - MR. WARREN: He is out of town,too. MR. NEARY: No, he is there. MR. DAWE: The hon. the Minister of Culture, Recreation and Youth sits right here. MR. NEARY: Oh. I thought it was the Minister of the Environment (Mr. Andrews). So, Mr. Speaker, here we are again today trying to get answers to questions and nobod y over there ho answer the questions. Mr. Speaker, the attendance in the House on the government side this Session has been shameful.

They are trying to get the House closed up as early as they can. They have very little on the Order Paper, the Concurrence Debates will fin .ish today, 3.nd when we come back we t\Till have nothing left but the Budget Speech. A point of order again? SOME HON. MEMBERS: No. MR. NEARY: That is the usual strategy, to try to bully the Chair again. 2867

April 17, 1984 Tape No . .1079 MJ -· 3 MR. NEARY: Hr. Speaker, the Concurrence Debates will be finished today, we only have a half an hour or so left, and so there ,,.rill be nothing left when we come after Easter only the Budget Speech. Nmv 2868

April 17, 1984 Tape 1080 EC - 1 MR. NEARY: if they could get the Budget Speech over today they would do it so we would not have to come back. Because, obviously, they are aiming for a short session of the House. Now, Mr. Speaker, the House will rise at 6:00 p.m. today and will not meet again until the 30th of this month. Thirteen days from now we will be back here again for the Budget Debate. Now, Mr. Speaker, let me ask hon. gentlemen this question: Has this been a productive session or the House as far as solving the problems of the unemployed are concerned?

Has it been productive as far as helping people who are unemployed in this Province, especially young people, are concerned, Mr. Speaker? Has it been a productive session for the people in Labrador West, for the people of Corner Brook, for the construction workers who are out of jobs and cannot find work? Has it been a productive session for the people who are struggling with the highest taxes in Canada and probably the highest taxes in North America? Has it been a productive session for those who pay high electricity bills in this Province?

Has it been a productive session for those people who cannot balance their family budgets because of the high cost of living in this Province? Mr. Speaker, can han. gentle­ men point their finger to one policy, one programme or one plan that the administration there opposite put forward to help the suffering people of this Province? Can they, ~x. Speaker? Can they point at one constructive idea that was brought forward by the adm1nistration that would help the suffering people in this Province? Did they do anything that would help the public debt? 2869

April 17 _, 1984 Tape 1080 EC - 2 AN HON. ME!-!BER: No. MR. NEARY: No, Hr. Speaker. Here is the kind of stuff they have brought into the House: "An Act To .Amend The Livestock Act'~ 'An Act To Amend The Elevators Act'; 'An Act To Amend The Boiler Pressure Vessel And Compressed Gas Act'~ Now that one may be very appropriate. When we are talking about compressed gas 1 we have to, of course, think about the hon. gentleman there op~osite - "An Act To Amend The Boiler Pressure Vessel And Compressed - Gas Act": Now, Mr.

Speaker, that is the kind of legislation and the kind of thing that we are forced to debate in this hon. House. And let me again point out for the benefit of anybody who may be listening who does not understand the system, the l•rctv this House works, it is the government that calls the order of business in this House, not the Opposition. We are forced to debate only items that are introduced by the government.

We have attempted in every way we can to bring before this House the plight of the inshore fishermen; we have attempted every way we could and as forcibly as we could to bring to the attention of the administration the plight of the unemployed in this Province, especially young people, the students, Mr. Speaker, the people who live in Labrador West and in Corner Brook and in all the other communities in Newfoundland that have been stricken with misery in the last three or four years due to the mismanagement and the incompetence of this administration. We have tried all of that, Mr.

Speaker, but it would seem that ~ve are just a voice crying in the wilderness. They are so tough and hard and callous and arrogant that they have no intention - they think time is on their side. They say, 'Well, we are not going to have an election for a two or three years yet, so we can continue the confrontation policy.' They can continue arguing and 2870

April 17, 1984 Tape 1080 EC - 3 MR. NEARY: warring and squabbling with everybody in sight and they can live in the laps of luxury themselves and ask the people to 'hang tough' in this Province while the Premier 2871

April 17, 1984 Tape No. 1081 NM - 1 MR. NEARY: gallivants across Canada living in posh hotels at taxpayer expense and in Tiffany Towers at taxpayer expense. And perhaps the han. Minister of Public Works and Services (Mr. Young) could tell us whether or not that lease is going to be renewed. It expires this month, will it be renewed, Mr. Speaker, or will it be cancelled and the Premier forced to do what every other premier in Canada does, and that is provide his own shelter and accommodations? Not another Premier in the whole of Canada gets his accommodations at the expense of the taxpayer. MR.

MATTHEWS: So they can say, "Yes, hang tough." paid Opposition Leader. MR. NEARY: getting ready to spring up. -MR. MATTHEWS : paid Opposition Leader. MR. NEARY: Tell us about the highest ·The hon. gentleman is Tell us about the highest Mr. Speaker, the Premier can say, "Yes, hang tough." Your Honour,I would like to draw your attention to the back being turned to Your Honour's Chair. I do not think that is permissable. MR. DAWE: MR. NEARY: Certainly not. I am side on. And there is only one member at a time allowed to stand in the House, Mr. Speaker.

I know the hon. gentleman would like to kiss the hem of the Premier's garrnent,but he is not in his seat right now. So these are the things that we have attempted to debate in this session of the House without success. Because they are so hard, and callous and tough and arrogant, because they have 2872

April 17, 1984 Tape No . 1081 NM - 2 MR. NEARY: forty-four members, Mr. Speaker, they have become dictatorial and arrogant and they will not listen to reason. 'Group think' is what has taken over . And, Mr. Speaker, we may seem like a voice crying in the wilderness, but I believe there is a quiet revolution sweeping this Province today. I believe there is a quiet revolution. I have never in my life heard so much discontent and disillusionment with the administration. It is amazing to me, Mr.

Speaker, it is amazing,only Newfoundlanders are very civilized people, that this building is not surrounded night and day by people who are frustrated and angry at the performance of this administration and han. gentlemen there opposite. MR. CARTER: Are you suggesting such a course? MR. NEARY: No, I am against civil disobedience, Mr. Speaker, I am against it. But I will say this, that Newfoundlanders are quiet and civilized, they will not come up and smash the windows out of Confederation Building. They will lay in the bushes and they will lay in waiting, Mr. Speaker. MR. CARTER: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER (Aylward): A point of order, the hon. member for St. John's North. MR. CARTER: Mr. Speaker, Your Honour has longheld that it is improper to say indirectly in this House what we may not say directly. And the hon. Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) now is indirectly 2873

·. April 17, 1984 Tape No. 1081 NM - 3 MR. CARTER: suggesting and inciting revolution and violence. And I think he should be made to withdraw it and disavow it publicly. MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) : To that point of order, the hon. Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) said that he was definitely against any public violence - MR. NEARY: Thank you. MR. SPEAKER: - so I would have to rule that there is a difference of opinion. Opposition. MR. NEARY: The hon. Leader of the I am glad Your Honour was listening,because what I said was just the opposite of what the hon. gentleman raised his point of orderon, Mr. Speaker.

We are opposed to civil disobedence. MR . SPEAKER: please: has elapsed. Labour and Manpower. Order, please! Order, The hon. member's time The hon. Minister of MR. DINN: Mr. Speaker, I have listened :to the hon. Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) for a couple of days now. He started out yesterday by saying, Is it reasonable, is it ethical, is it moral for the Government of Newfoundland to be sending out to the children of Newfo .undland, through the Department of Education, our position on the offshore? Mr. Speaker, he says, "Why do we not send out Mr.

Chretien's position when we send out the position of the Newfoundland Government on the offshore?" I will tell the hon. Leader of the 2874

April 17, 1984 Tape · 1082 PK - 1 MR. DINN: Opposition (Mr. Neary) the reason. The reason we send out our position is because the position needs to be put out there so that people will understand it. They will understand that our position will give the people of this Province something out of the offshore. It will show to the people of this Province that we have attempted to negotiate. We went from ownership to joint ownership to put ownership aside. And while we were going through this process, while we agreed in early November I believe,when the hon. minister went out to negotiate with Mr.

Chretien our position on the offshore, we said, Okay Mr. Chretien let us put ownership aside and let us see if we can arrive at an agreement. And that is what happened. And what happened in the interim period,when the federal ~overnrnent agreed- MR . WARREN: Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) : Mountains. MR. DINN: Order, please! The han. member for Torngat The han. member for Torngat Mountains (Mr. Warren) is delaying the House again. MR. WARREN: a quorum. MR. SPEAKER: MR. SPEAKER: No , I am not. I am calling Call in the members. QUORUM CALL Order, please! There is a quorum present. Is it agreed to continue?

NR. DAWE: Yes. MR. NEARY: No. MR. SPEAKER: It is not agreed. A minute and a half to wait. 2875

April 17, 1984 Tape 1082 PK - 2 MR. SPEAKER (A ylward) : Order, please! There is a quorum present and the time has elapsed. The han. Minister of Labour and Manpower. MR. DINN: So, Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) made a big speech yesterday about whether it was proper for us to send out the Newfoundland Government's position on the offshore . and why we did not send out Mr. Chretien's letter .. Well, Mr. Speaker, that is obvious. Our position on the offshore gives something to Newfoundland, gives something to the people of Newfoundland. Mr.

Chretien's letter does nothing for the people of Newfoundland. There was an assessment done on the position of Mr . Chretien,which is exactly the same or less than the agreement signed in Nova Scotia, and the federal government and the Province. of Nova Scotia did an assessment of that agreement and came up with the fact, f-a-c-t, the fact that there will be absolutely nothing · or very little,if anything,out of the agreement for the Province and the people of Nova Scotia. That is why we did not send out Mr. Chretien's position. It is not a position. It is not a position that we are going to agree with.

We are going to get an agreement for this Province that does something for the Province, that does sanething for the people of this Province, that involves employment for the people of this Province, that involves the industries in this Province becoming involved in the offshore. That is why we will not send out Mr. Chretien's position,because it has been proven by Mr. Chretien's people, federal people, that the agreerrent signed with Nova Scotia is of no use to the Province of Nova Scotia. So that is one thing. 2B76

April 17, 1984 Tape 1082 PK - 3 MR. DINN: Now he goes on and he says, What did this session of the House do for the people of Labrador West? Well, Mr. Speaker, we changed 2877

•J April 17, 1984, Tape 1083, Page 1 -- apb MR. DINN: the tax structure in Labrador West so that the business people in Labrador West can compete with the people in Quebec. We are building a new arts and culture centre in Labrador West. We are expanding the Constabulary to Labrador West.

We concluded, after a study was done in Labrador West as a result of the disaster that took place there last year with respect to the shutdown of the mines and the layoff of something of the order of 1,500 people, that the people in Labrador West needed special assistance for mobility, and included in the budget is money for that mobility programme. We are still waiting, by the way, for a reply from the federal government favourable to the people of Labrador West so that they can get some more money for mobility. Just to inform hon. members through you, Mr.

Speaker, I will give you an example of how the people of Newfoundland are treated in comparison to the people of other provinces in Canada. As a case in point I would like to point out to the hon. member the mobility assistance we provided to the people of Labrador West. We had a closedown in Schefferville.

Immediately, days after, before it was announced the President of roc went to Schefferville and he sat down,and he had the Government of the Province of Quebec, he had the Iron Ore Company of Canada, and he had the federal government there and they announced a mobility assistance programme for the people in Schefferville. What did it say? It said 1 '':'he co':llnany >'lill pay 25 per cent, the r:overn..T!lent of the Province of Quebec will pay 25 per cent, and the federal government will pay the 50 per cent for mobility assistance of upward to about $10,000.

So what happened when we had a large layoff in Labrador West? We applied to the federal government for the sa~e pro~ra~~e ann the i~T!lediate re:s;?onse it 'vag about a t~·1o- 2878

April 17, 1984, Tape 1083, Page 2 -- apb MR. DINN: liner I received back from the former Minister of Employment and Immigration, the han. Lloyd Axworthy, I received a response that said,'No.' So I wrote back again and I said,'Well, you provided it in Schefferville, why do you not provide it for the pe9ple in Labrador West?' 'It is not the same situation.' So I kept writing. And then we had a change in ministers in Ottawa. I wrote Mr. Rompkey and he said he was workin~ on it. Well, Mr. Speaker, that has been well over a year now.

Letters have gone back and forth between myself and the former minister, between myself and the new minister, and, ).- finally, the only positive response that I have gotten from the federal government was, 'We are going to look at the programme now to see if we can have that programme adapt to Labrador West.' That is just one small item, mobility assistance for the people of Labrador West who were laid off due to the cutback in the mining operation down there.

In Schefferville no problem, the federal government comes in and gives 50 per cent of a $10,000 grant, the provincial government 25 per cent and the company 25 per cent. So what did we do, Mr. Speaker? We did not wait. We said, 'Now, the federal government has to be shown. We have to lead the way.' We went up to Labrador West, we had an assessment done, and

whereas the Quebec Government paid about $2,QOO,we paid $3,000 for married people w~th trailers, $2,000 for married people, and $1,000 for single people for mobility.· That was more than the Quebec Government did for the people in Schefferville. But did we get a response yet from the federal government? No. Their first argument was, Well, the Province is not doing anything. Unless the Province does something we will not do anything. Then we did it and they said, 'Well, the programme does not fit.' So I kept 2879

April 17, 198 4 Tape No. 1084 SD - 1 MR. DINN: writing and writing and calling and talking to him, I embarrassed him at a federal/provincial conference,and finally we got a letter back saying, 'We are going to have a look at it'. Now, it is not millions of dollars, it is not like an offshore agreement, it is a simple little agreement that any normal,reasonable government in Ottawa would have a look at and the :'! \·ToulH _ sa y :res. '·"ht:>tout fear of contradiction I can say that any normal federal government would say yes to that. But did this federal government do it? No.

The answer was no all the way through and finally I embarrassed him into saying maybe. So, Mr. Speaker, that is the kind of thing that we ha ve to put up with here. ~-i.i""Z. ''!ALSH: The federal member has not been in that district for almost a year. MR. DINN: And the federal membe~, as I understand from the provincial member here,who is alwa ys back and forth- a8 a matter of fact, he has gone in with me at least seven times,or I have gone in with him at least seven tL~es to Labrador West. So what are we doing for the people in Labrador West?

We are doing everything that is within our power to do for the people in Labrador West and more, more than the great federal government is supposed to be doing. ~1 "'.. •·'-ll. L~F!: The member for Torngat Mountains (.Mr. Warren). does not ~.;ant that kno 1·1s. MR.

DINN: And th .e member for Torngat Mountains will not even recognize that. _ You would think he would get up once in a while and say something positive and say, 'Yes, the provincial government recognize the problem in Labrador West, yes, there is · a mobility problem and he is glad that the provincial government came through for those people b-ecause the y needed that s·ort of assistance •·. That is what he should be saying. And he should be writing letters to Mr, Rompkey and to Mr. Roberts on behalf of those pe .ople, if 2880

April 17, 1984 Tape No. 1084 SD - 2 MR. DINN: he is really in 'terested in helping the people of Labrador,which I know he is, but he does not seem to come along to the game. He gets up on these little small issues ~ The Question Period today was based on what he read in The Dail y News this morning and, Mr. Speaker, if he would pay a little more attention, if he would analyze the situation a little more, if he would have a look at what Newfoundland is trying to get from the offshore he would know, Mr. Speaker, that we are right on the offshore and Mr. Chretien is wrong. MR.

SPEAKER CAylwardl: Order, please:· The hon. member • s time has elaps·ed. MR . DINN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The han. member for Torngat Mountain. MR. WA...R.REN: Mr .. Speaker, I am surprised that the Government House Leader (Mr. Marshall) on that ~ide did not get up on a point of order while the hon. memher ,.,as speaking,becaus~ for the whole ten minutes he ·talked "about the offshore and Labrador West. So, Mr. Speaker, I do not see why we s·hould have to stay to a particular topic.

And the han. member asked whv did I not aet up and say something about the good the provincial government is doing for Labrador West. I believe the provincial government has done some good things for Labrador West. I believe the provincial government can do much more for Labrador West. Mr. Speaker' · the han. member has the gall, has the intestinal fortitude to s-ay that I got up today and asked a couple of silly· questions about what I read in The Daily News. Now, Mr. Speaker, the questions I asked today, you know, they were not contained in · The Daily News. 2881

April 17, 1984 Tape 1085 EC - 1 MR. WARREN: I would like to tell the hon. member that the questions I raised today had to do with senior citizens in this Province who, because of the rules and regulations of this government, had to suffer a very uncomfortable weekend in government subsidized homes, homes where this government is paying anywhere from $800 to $1,200 a month per individual for proper care; and this government sees fit to have those homes licenced, homes where people up to eighty or eighty-five years of age have to be wrapped up in blankets and sweaters and every other thing they can find. MR.

CALLAN: Hot water bottles. MR. WARREN: One home in particular did not have even the facility to boil a kettle. MR. CALLAN: Water. MR. WARREN: Boil the water in the kettle, yes! So this is what this government is concerned about. And the hon. member had the gall to to say, 'I am not concerned.' It was fine and dandy for the hon. the Minister of Energy (Mr. Marshall) or the hon. the member for Menihek (Mr. Walsh) this weekend to go to a corner store and buy a gallon of kerosene for $8 or buy a blanket or whatever they needed. They probably could afford it.

But what about the social assistance recipients in this Province who had all kinds of problems this week­ end? And where was the minister's staff? The minister said his staff are always ready, willing and able. I agree, Mr. Speaker, they would want to be always ready, willing and able but many of them were not ready, willing and able this weekend because they were trying to do as all of us were doing, trying to keep cur families comfortable. The minister should have plans in place where a social assistance recipient could have gone to the corner store 2882

April 17, 1984 Tape 1085 EC - 2 MR. IW\RREN : with emergency authorization to purchase the necessities to get through this weekend. So I hope the Minister of Labour and Manpower (~~ . Dinn) will put to rest once and for all the notion that I am not concerned. I only wish the minister were half as concerned about the average ~uman being in this Province as I am . The minister 's concern is to make sure his buddies can have a place in the sun, he is not concerned about the average Newfo undlander and Labradorian . If he was the hon. the minister in response to the question from the Leader of the Oppo sition (Mr . Neary) today, he \vould have said ir . 2883

April 17, 1984 TaP.e No. 1086 MJ - 1 MR. WARREN: his first response, and it would not have been necessar y for the hon. the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) to keep drilling him for an answer, he >vould have said in his first response that his first aim, his first concern would be for the safety and compensation of the ordinar y and average Newfoundlander. But the minister is more concerned about his buddies who he can do the l?W work for. That is what the minister is concerned about. Nm.,r, Mr. Speaker, the !-1inister of Social Services (Mr.

Hickev) said, 'T~ere are many, many homes of different sizes that ta!ce in different numbers of people and I do not know who qot back-up systems and who have not.' He does not knm..r. I do not think the minister knows very much. The minister should make sure. It is very simple. In fact, I have to tell you t!lis, Hr. Speaker, and tell the han.

House that I brought up the same question in 1979 to the same han. minister and as a result of my questioning at that time, the minister had his staff look into the possibilit y of having back-up svstem~ in senior citizens homes throughout the Province and how much it would cost. So they did a survey and it showed that in the five years previous to 1979 there was only one major disruption of services, to one particular senior citizens home, and the department decided that it ~vas goinq to be too costly to have the necessarv back-up system put in place in those homes. Now · r1r.

Speaker, before I qet interrupted by the han. the minister, I will teil the minister - after I ha ve finished spea~ing - I will tell him the name of the individual I spoke to in the Department of Social Services and he can call up that individual and I am sure he will tell him the same thing. Novr, to get back to it. So the decision was made not to go ahead and novT 111hat do we have? 2884

April 17, 1984 Tape No . 1086 HJ - 2 M.R. WARREN : We had a major disaster over the weekend as it pertains to the senior citizens homes. There are homes out in the hon. member for Carbonear's (Mr . Peach) district - I would venture to say that the hon. member kno~1s about the home out there that gave very poor servi ce dur ing the wee.kend but the administrator of that home will not say to the provincial gov ernment, 'Keep the money this month because we never gave the senior citizens the service they dese rve.' M.R. PATTERSON: Is that the home you are going to? HR.

WARREN: I would not doubt, in response to the hon . member, that in due course I will, but I will assure him that it will be long after the hon. member is there . However, Mr. Speaker, I have confidence in the Minister of Social Services (Mr . Hickey), that he will make sure that his department is prepared, ready and able to cope with emergencies. All that is needed is a back-up 2885

April 17,1984 Tape No. 1087 ah-1 MR. WARREN: system.in the senior citizens homes.Now 1 that has to come or else,if that does not happen,the minister has the authority to withdraw their licenses. Give them an ultimatum, , give the proprietors of those homes an ultimatum, either have a back-up system in place or the licenses will be withdrawn. That is not too much to ask for, Mr. Speaker. Under another heading of the Social Services estimates I want to find out,in the absence of the Minister of Health (Mr.House) ; I want to find out from the hon.

House Leader (Mr.Marshall) what action has this government taken in the past month to deal with the salmonella poisoning in the ·central Newfoundland area? I understand there is something like seventy-three cases that have been reported. And I heard that the Minister of Health recently made a statement and warned people that meat and poultry should be adequately thawed and thoroughly cooked before eating. Now, Mr. Speaker, most Newfoundlanders and Labradorians know that. I wonder if this salmonella is associated with institutions or hotels only or is it individual families? I find it unusual •.

MR.SPEAKER (Avlward): has elapsed. MR. WARREN: The hon.member's time Mr. Speaker, could I have just a few minutes to clue up? MR. SPEAKER: have. leave to continue? SOHE HON.MEHBERS: MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon.member By leave. Leave has been granted. The hon.member for Torngat Mountains. 2886

April 17,1984 Ta pe No . 1087 ah -2 ~.R. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, I am just wondering if the hon . Minister of Heal th (Mr .House), or the acting Minister of Heal th could give us some idea whether there has been a preliminary study carried out in ~~e Gander area,or the area that is serve d by the Gander hospital,to find out if those salmonella poisonings are happening in a particular family or to people visiting institutions or people visiting in hotels? Becau se not only does it concern the people in the Gander area,but I am sure it also concerns the people throughout Newfoundla nd and Labrador .

And with those few remarks , Mr . Speaker, I believe that this government does have an obligation to its people and, I tvould venture to say, that 2887

April 17, 1984 Tape No. 1088 MR. WARREN: the senior citizens of today have to be looked after because they will not be around tomorrow. NM - 1 MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) : of the Council. The hon. the President MR. MARSHALL: Well, l'~r.

Speaker, once again I say we cannot have two Liberals - look, we are coming to the end of the time now for the consideration of the estimates, and I have to say;again, I do not suppose that ever not only in the history of the Province but in the history of any British parliamentary system in which this system is used, has there ever been such an incomplete and disgraceful treatment of the estimates brought by a government before the House and before the committees of the House as we have seen from the members there opposite.

The only time that there was anything of any relevance that might have been done was the last speech of the han. member for Torngat Mountains (Mr. Warren), He continues to, at least from time to time, show flashes of brilliance, Mr. Speaker, where he addresses the issues on point. Right now we are discussing Social Services and we were treated yesterday to the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary), while we were in committee on Social Services, getting up and complaining because the resource ministers were not here. Of course the resource m~nisters' estimates have been dealt with ages ago. __ ---- _ . Mr.

Speaker, I think it should be said for the record that the government strove, bent over backwards to accommodate the Opposition in an attempt to facilitate their unfounded criticisms, they were unfounded, of this committee system, a committee system that is being used in every parliament 2888

April 17, 1984 Tape No. 1088 NM - 2 MR. MARSHALL: under the British system. And what we did was we arranged for the camUttee~ to be held so that there would only be one committee sitting at a time. So, consequently,all eight members of the Opposition could have attended any committee meeting, Now, only two could have voted, but all eight could have attended. And what happened, Mr. Speaker? When we did that we had certain committees at which there was not even an Opposition member present. So that shows how interested they were in the process of government.

They wanted the estimates brought back onto the floor of the House, and what did we see? There always are certain heads of expenditures that are in the Committee of the Whole in the House, Consolidated Funds, Executive Council, and Legislative, and there is more than ample time to discuss these. I think there would be about fifteen hours perhaps in total to be able to deal with those,which is five hours for each heading. There is not much in Consolidated Revenue because most of it does not have to be voted. There is only one item in it that has to be voted. And what happened?

They used the whole fifteen hours, Mr. Speaker, getting up and talking about generalities. They never allowed it to get past -- - ·- Consolidated Revenue and into Leqislative or Executive Council, so the net result was that at the end of the time what had to happen was that .the headings all had to be called. And there was absolutely no treatment at all, Mr. Speaker, of the matters that were befere them. Now ,if they are going to :talk about the estimates and examine the estimates, and the estimates this year as other years need to be examined, and need to be examined in great detail, there is a lot of 2889

April 17, 1984 Tape No. 1088 NM - 3 MR. MARSHALL: need here for the hon. gentleman to have asked questions about. We are now talking in the Social Services 2890

April 17, 1984 Tape 1089 PK - l MR. MARSHALL: area. I mean, you have items in this budget that have been brought before the Legislature by the Ministers of Finance (Dr. Collins) and Health (Mr. House), for instance, which are dramatic measures when you consider the resource capability of this Province. You will witness this year the substantial completion of the commitment for the hospital in Clarenville. I think it is to the tune of $6 million or $8 million that are going to be spent.

You are going to have about $3 million spent down in Salt Pond, on the Burin Peninsula. we saw the completion of the Channel/Part aux Basques Hospital, Mr. Speaker, this year, in the district of the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary), and the recent opening of it. MR. DAWE: 'Bill', while there is no one over there can you close the debate? MR. MARSHALL: I would love to. MR. DAWE: You cannot shut her down, can you? MR. MAR SHAL L: I suppose we could. AN HON. MEMBER: get out of here. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. DAWE: MR. BARRETT: MR. MARSHALL: How much time do we have left?

There is no one over there, let us Hear, hear! Here they come. That got a rise. Talk about quorum calls. Talk about quorum calls, Mr. Speaker. There has been nobody there, Mr. Speaker, on the Opposition side for the past five minutes. Of course, there has been nobody really in the Opposition since this Assembly was convened. Because, Mr. Speaker, they do not know how to conduct the affairs of government, they do not know how to conduct themselves in the Legislature. They have shown it by the way in which they have dealt with the estimates this year, they 2891

April 17, 1984 Tape 1089 PK - 2 MR. MARSHALL: have shown it, Mr. Speaker, by their rejection of the democratic process which was available to them. As I have said, vrhile ~-.re made the Committees easier for them this year,there were times when members did not actually attend the meetings themselves. Now to get back on to what is in this budget. For instance, you would think the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary), would have some words of congratulations for this government this year when you have the opening of the Channel/Port aux Basques Hospital in his district. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR.

MARSHALL: Not a single solitary word, . Mr. Speake~· As a matter of fact,we have built that hospital in spite of the Leader of the Opposition, Because there had been monies voted for the past three years in the budget for the Channel/Port aux Basques Hospital and each time, Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition has voted against the budget. So by voting against the budget he has voted against the hospital in Channel/Port aux Basques. But despite the han. gentleman, Mr. Speaker, we provided that hospital and it carne to fruition this year, it was opened. I understand the hon. Leader of the Opposition attended.

We accorded him an invitation. He was there as sour as he has been today in the Question Period, as sour as he is most days. The dim realization is corning to the hon. gentleman that he will never be back in government again because the people of this Province, in his lifetime, will never entrust the government ag.ain to the Liberal Party. I think the best description I have seen of the Liberal Party, Mr. Speaker, I saw recently in a letter in the paper from somebody from the West Coast, I think he p~~ it really, really well when he talked about 2892

April 17, 1984 Tape 1089 PK - 3 MR . MARSHALL : the relationship between the ~rovincial Liberals and the Federal Liberals , an d ~e rl~f. in~ rl a Provincial Liberal as a person \ofhO would give everything away and a Federal Liberal as a person who would ta< e evervt.!U.m a\'la'T . Now , Mr. Speaker, that is why the hon . gentleman get s on so well with Mr. Chretien. Because, Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition (Mr . Neary) would give the offshore away and, of course,we have seen that Mr . Chretien has been there ready , willing and anxio us to take it all away . t1r. Speaker, in the fe•· t minutes reMaininn I \ofOnder - 2893

April 17, 1984 Tape No. 1090 SD - 1 . Z\.H H0~<. !-ir"T~1B::':': Here is ~or ~urner now . '1TI • ><A !V=' c-lA.I"L : Oh, he is for Turner now. Eope SDrinCTS eternal for the hon. gentleman. Does that mean that the hon. gentleman has gotten a commitment from Mr. T~rner for the Senate? MR. NEARY: MR. MARSHALL: on Mr. Chretien .'1R.. TULK: MR. MARSHALL: 'J'hat is right. I gather that is why he soured I t·lill send 'lOU over a hutton. No, I do not think~ I think my hand would turn to stone if I touched a Liberal button, Mr. Speaker, and I should net want that. I wonder, Mr.

Speaker, if the hon. gentleman there opposite in the few minutes· remaining would care to comment on the statement that the nre~ier tabled todav on his analysis, Mr. Speaker, of the statement made by Mr. Chretien, when he was down on,the offshore. I mean, would the hon. gentleman care to comment on that very, very substantial statement? He gets up and he talks about everything that Mr. Chretien says, yet the statement that the Premier has tabled in the House today shows what little truth the statement of Mr.

Chretien has, what little weight it has, how inexact it is, it is full of complete and absolute inaccuracies. The hon. gentleman obviously ei th.er does not know '-vha.t he is talking about or else he has not learned yet that you cannot pull the wool -over the eyes o·f Newfoundlanders unless they are the type··of the hon. gentlemen there opposite who are supporting the Liberal Party perhaps for other considerations. Hr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman is looking frantically for the statement. · If he wants· it I will .s·end it over to him.

I wonder what the hon. gentleman •N'ill have to say about that statement now when h.e gets up and 2894

April 17, 1984 Tape No. 1090 SD - 2 MR. MARSHALL: he admits the fact that Mr. Chretien says it was a fair and generous offer. Nould he like to refer to the response the Premier has made with respect to Mr. Chretien's statements? Mr. Speaker, I wonder would he like to talk about the nonsensical statement made by Mr. Chretien wh .er. he was down, that Newfoundland would be second only to Ottawa and 40 per cent richer than Ontario? As the Premier said, can you just see the people from Ontario allowing 1 from our own resources, the Province of Newfoundland to get 40 per cent richer than it?

I mean, what consu~mate knowledge. Mr. Speaker, I wonder what the hon. gentleman has got to say about the very clear and concise way in which the Premier has treated the statements that are made all the time,that we are going to get 100 per cent revenues and what that is going to mean to us? 100 per cent fiscal capacity, Mr. SpeakTr' would put us in exactly no different position than we are today. And are we flushed with hospitals and schools? MR. SPEAKER: CRusselll: Order, please! The h.on. member's time has expired. The Chair recognizes the hon. Leader of the Opposition LMr, Nearhl.

He has three minutes left in the debate .. MR .. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the hon. qentleman should tell the House where they have Dr. r::oebbles hid a~va'' MR. TULK: MR. NEARY: To pump out this. propaganda, to pump out this propaganda. Where do they have him hidden? I know · the hon. gentleman 1-.ras struggling there a fewmoments ago to come up with something new in the way of nastiness. The han. gentleman now has used up all the old terms that he is used to, He squirts all the poison he can, Mr. Speaker, across the Rouse and he 2895

April 17, 1984 Tape No . 1090 SD - 3 MR. NEARY: finds it very difficult ~ecause he has been so nasty in this House in the last several y.ears, that he has been unable to develop any new terms of his own, anything original. Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman reruses to address himself to the rea~ issues, the real questions. And what are the real issues in this Province? Record unemployment is one o£ the biggest issues, high taxes, high electricity rates. The hon . gentleman told me that he was going to have a surprise on Monday or T~esday. Today is Tuesday. we have not seen the resignation o£ the hon. gentleman yet.

High taxes, Mr. Speaker, communities in trouble, every communityo ago that every I made a statement a few weeks 2896

April 17, 1984 Tape 1091 EC - 1 MR. NEARY: major community in Newfoundland was in trouble except Grand Falls, every major community except Grand Falls. Now, the han. gentlemen could not stand to hear that, Mr. rpeaker. They rould not stand to hear it. So tii.e }1inister of Forest Resources and Lands (Mr. Power) had to go out to Lewisporte and create some doubt about Grand Falls. They have the 'shut 'er dm,m' mentality. MR. NEARY: ltt. Speaker, the fact of the matter is the han. gentleman can be as nasty and as rude as he wants.

The people of this Province are fed up with the war of words, they are fed up with warring and squabbling and fighting and confrontation politics. They are fed up with it and the han. gentleman knows that.

Every member over there knows it, they hear it from their constituents, they hear it wherever they go, wherever they socialize; if they go to a mall or if they go to a meeting people are coming up to them and saying, 'Will you stop this nonsense of fighting and squabbling?' 'Roll up your sleeves,' they are saying, 'get down to brass tacks and try to do something to help peo?le get back to work in this Province.' SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER (Russell): Order, please! Order, please! MR. NEARY: Now, Mr.

Speaker, that is what this House is all about. ~le should be debating ideas and proposals and recommendations and policies to deal with the real issues that are confronting the people of this Province. :tJI.R. TOBIN: Province today is you. MR. NEARY: issue? The biggest issue in this Is that so? I am the biggest 2897

.:.. April 17, 1984 MR. TOBIN: MR. NEARY: MR. TOBIN: are going to go away. MR. NEARY: Tape 1091 EC - 2 You are the biggest issue. I see. People are >•mndering when you The trouble is, I hurt the han. gentleman badly on the Burin Peninsula last year by telling the people down there that he was out of order in this House thirty-two times in one afternoon, which is a record. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : l1R. NEARY: Order, please! The time for debate has expired. Hell, Mr. Speaker, we will get back at it again when we get into the Budget Debate. MR.

SPEAKER: The motion is that the report of the Social Services Committee be concurred in. SO~E HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER: SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER: 1'-!R. MARSHALL : MR. SPEAKER: Council. Those in favour, 'Aye'. Aye. Those against, 'Nay'. Nay. I declare the motion carried. Mr. Speaker. The han. the President of the MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, since we have finished the order of business, I think that vle should give a moticn to adjourn. MR. NEARY: What? ·Do not tell me you have run out of things to say! MR.

MARSHALL: I do hope that we will see the han. gentleman after the Easter vacation and that the appointment to the Senate - M~. NEARY: It is shameful. Shameful! 2898

April 17, 1984 Tape 1091 EC - 3 MR . MARSHALL: Nell, it cannot be premature be cause Senator Cook has not retired yet, Mr . Speaker. Mr . Speaker, I move that the Bouse at its rising do adjourn until tomorrow, Monday, April 30 , 1984 and that this House do now adjourn. On motion, the Bouse at its rising adjourned until tomorrow, Monday, April 30, 1984 at 3:00 p.m. 2899

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(oJ.£J 17~; April 6, 1984 ANSWER TO QUESTIONS 24 and~ ============================= QUESTION #24 - related to additional capacity in Labrador West. ANSWER: - At the present time there is sufficient capacity in existing transmission and substation facilities to meet the load requirements for industrial, commercial and domestic purposes in Labrador City and Wabush.

However, the domestic load in the Town of Wabush is expected to grow over the next five years and additional capacity will probably have to be added to the Town's substation and distribution feeders, to take care of a probable increase in conversions to electric heat. In the Town of Labrador City the existing Town substations and feeders are adequate to supply the growing domestic load. With respect to additional transmission facilities required for significant increases in industrial load, this is a matter which deals with the confidential plans of IOCC in Labrador City and Wabush Mines in Wabush.

It would be inappropriate to give details on these matters. QUESTION #25 related to the Lower Churchill Development Corporation. ANSWER There have been no specific reports or studies commissioned since September 1981 which relate to estimating the revised cost of constructing the Lower Churchill plant and its related transmission lines.