December

3, 2008

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS

Vol. XLVI No. 44

The House met at 2:00 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Fitzgerald): Order please!

Admit strangers.

Statements by Members

MR. SPEAKER: The following members' statements will be heard today: the

hon. the Member for the District of Bay Verte-Springdale; the hon. the Member

for the District of Port de Grave; the hon. the Member for the District of

Bonavista North; the hon. the Member for the District of Burgeo & LaPoile;

the hon. the Member for the District of Fortune Bay-Cape La Hune; and the hon.

the Member for the District of Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

The hon. the Member for the District of Bay Verte-Springdale.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. POLLARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is with great delight that I rise in this hon. House today to congratulate

the Town of Baie Verte on a very successful Come Home Year, and its fiftieth

anniversary celebrations this past summer.

For a whole week, various events were planned which rejuvenated the spirit of

the town immensely. Scores of people attended, not only from the region, but

from all over the Province and the nation.

The event gave an opportunity to renew friendships, take trips down memory

lane, and for family members who live far away, to spend some special moments

together.

Community leaders and its organizing committee are to be commended for a

stellar job. The amount of time, energy, and effort put into planning such a

special occasion was greatly appreciated by everybody.

This is yet another, among many prime examples, of community leaders and

volunteers pulling together, using limited resources, but with pride and

passion, get the job done.

Mr. Speaker, I invite my hon. colleagues to join me in acknowledging the

efforts and hard work, not only of the industrious Come Home Year organizing

committee, but also of the people of Baie Verte for an outstanding show of

community pride and community spirit.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Mr. Speaker, Desiree Bowering, the daughter of Richard and

Paula Bowering of Bay Roberts, was awarded top prize for her poster in the Lions

Club International Peace Poster contest.

Desiree, a Grade 8 student at Amalgamated Academy, was honoured at the Bay

Roberts Lions Club on November 10, 2008. Eight other merit awards were also

presented.

The international theme for this year was Peace Begins With Me .

Desiree's poster symbolized all nations as being equal, coming together all

around the world forming world peace. Her poster will now be entered in the

regional contest and from there, hopefully to the multiple and international

competition.

I ask all hon. members to join me in congratulating the Bay Roberts Lions

Club and wishing Desiree Bowering every success as her poster enters the next

level of competition.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Bonavista North.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HARDING: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to acknowledge the efforts and

success of students at Lester Pearson Memorial High. The New-Wes-Valley school

recently claimed first place in NTV/OZ FM's 25 Second Ad Challenge . Brandon

Burry, Sarah Norris, Tyler Stagg, Jade Stokes and Jordan Stokes developed and

produced an anti-drinking and driving commercial that won the provincial

competition.

The winning commercial received professional editing services and is now

being aired on NTV. The school also received a new computer and the total value

of the prize was approximately $45,000.

The students should not only be acknowledged for their creativity and work

ethic in the development of this project, but also for the maturity and

sensitivity they displayed in dealing with such intense subject matter. The

commercial was direct, bold, and in a very succinct manner, revealed the

extremely tragic, and avoidable, outcomes associated with driving under the

influence. Through their efforts, the students of Lester Pearson have provided

us with an incredibly important message, one that we should never forget.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all hon. members of this House to join with me in

congratulating the students at Lester Pearson Memorial High on their recent

success, and to acknowledge the important contribution they have made to the

continued fight against drinking and driving.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Burgeo &

LaPoile.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to recognize and congratulate St. James' Regional High, Port

aux Basque on hosting a successful provincial leadership conference.

This was the nineteenth annual provincial leadership conference and this year's

theme was, Get a Grip on Leadership. The conference was attended by

approximately 250 students from across the Province. All of these students are

considered to be leaders at their respective schools.

During the conference, the students attended many information and learning

sessions which they felt were very beneficial. The students acquired many new

ideas from each other and from the classes and the guest speakers in attendance.

The students also formed new friendships and are looking forward to next year's

conference.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this House to join with me in extending

congratulations to the students of St. James' Regional High on hosting a

successful provincial leadership conference. It was a job well done and you

should all be very proud of your accomplishment.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Fortune Bay-Cape la

Hune.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS PERRY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, for the privilege to rise in this hon.

House today to recognize the heroic efforts of our youth in Belleoram.

This summer, while enjoying a beautiful summer's day in rural Newfoundland

and Labrador, a group of young ones decided to go swimming, but encountered some

very bad luck. Young Megan Dominix nearly drowned, but thanks to the bravery of

her friends she is alive and well today.

Coming to her aid were Austin Keeping and Kristen Leights, who got her safely

to shore, where Daniel Barnes, Jodie Keeping and Cecil Dominix joined the

life-saving effort. I would also to acknowledge Beth Skinner, our local nurse,

who was quickly on hand to help out.

It is people like these that we never hear of, but who make a difference in

our everyday lives. You have saved a life, and for that we are very grateful and

extremely proud.

Mr. Speaker, I ask that all members of this hon. House join me in delivering

accolades and praise to these brave young heroes of Belleoram.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Cartwright-L'Anse

au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to recognize the extraordinary accomplishments of an outstanding

young community leader from my district.

A resident of Forteau, Labrador, Jeffrey Belben is a sixteen-year-old youth

who has the ability to combine academics with sports, business, the Junior

Canadian Rangers, and community involvement in youth matters on both a local,

national and international level.

Mr. Speaker, in July Jeffrey was one of only twenty youth from Canada and one

of 150 from all over the world to attend the first International Youth Advisory

Congress on Online Safety and Security in London, England.

Participants formulated proposals that were taken forward for submission to

the United Nations Convention on Rights of the Child. He was also the only high

school student from our Province to attend the sixth Annual National Aboriginal

Youth Violence and Changing Times conference in British Columbia this past year.

Mr. Speaker, Jeffrey has participated in hockey schools for four summers, and

has been honoured as most spirited, won medals in tournaments, and placed first

in photography and arts contests. He has also worked with the Youth Venture

small business program, mowing lawns, working as a sales assistant to the

Labrador Straits Arena, and as a cook in a local restaurant. In his spare time,

he became certified as a swimming instructor, lifeguard and a Red Cross Water

Safety instructor.

Mr. Speaker, Jeffrey did all of this while achieving honours in junior and

senior high grades and actively participating in all aspects of the Junior

Canadian Ranger program.

I ask all members in this House to join with me in recognizing the

extraordinary abilities and commitments of all our youth in Newfoundland and

Labrador, but in particular Mr. Jeffrey Belben on his diverse accomplishments at

such a young age.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Statements by Ministers.

Statements by Ministers

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education and Government House

Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, I rise in this hon. House today to inform my

colleagues of an important change regarding the hiring of apprentices in

Newfoundland and Labrador.

The Provincial Apprenticeship and Certification Board have reviewed a change

to the 1:1 ratio for journeyperson to apprentice. Through this ratio, each

apprentice is assigned a journeyperson mentor on the worksite to ensure that

apprentices learn their skills with appropriate supervision and in a safe

environment. Supervised on-the-job training and work experience are a critical

component of an apprentice's training.

I am pleased to report today, Mr. Speaker, that the provincial government has

accepted the proposed change as recommended by the Provincial Apprenticeship and

Certification Board. This will give employers greater flexibility and will

result in an increase in the number of apprentices able to gain valuable

worksite training.

Under a Memorandum of Understanding, for every 1:1 ratio an employer

currently has, an additional final year apprentice can now be hired. In

addition, if the employer's current MOU is already with a final year

apprentice, the employer can hire a first, second, or third year apprentice.

Mr. Speaker, the provincial government has been working diligently to build a

highly-qualified labour force to meet the needs of the many large-scale

development projects on the Province's horizon. The change to the

journeyperson to apprentice ratio stems from the recommendations of the Skills

Task Force, a partnership initiated by this government, of industry, labour,

business, education and other stakeholders, to identify needs and ensure a

responsive training system.

Since 2006, Mr. Speaker, significant advances have been made. Changes to the

apprenticeship system last year allow apprentices to receive credit for

on-the-job training they do in Alberta. The provincial government has invested

over $53 million in the areas of apprenticeship, science and technology,

programming, training and infrastructure. This includes funding to hire

apprentices within government departments and agencies as well as to conduct

significant renovations and equipment upgrades at the College of the North

Atlantic. This helps ensure students have the most modern and relevant learning

resources. As a result, Mr. Speaker, more people in the Province are actively

involved in skilled trades.

At the end of last month, there were 4,704 active, registered apprentices, a

15 per cent increase since 2007. I am especially pleased to note that, since

2004, the number of women registering for apprenticeship programs in

non-traditional trades is up by 35 per cent.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: I would like to acknowledge the role of the Provincial

Apprenticeship and Certification Board in this latest improvement to the

apprenticeship system. I look forward to continuing to work with our partners to

build a strong, skilled labour force for our Province.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: I want to thank the minister, Mr. Speaker, for an advance

copy of her statement and to say that we on this side of the House, in the

Official Opposition, want to commend the Provincial Apprenticeship and

Certification Board and government for coming together on this initiative.

We know all too well, Mr. Speaker, with what we hear in the media with regard

to the major projects that will be coming on stream, we do need a skilled work

force. In the past, let me assure you, being involved in the non-traditional

trades before being elected to the House of Assembly, I know full well that many

of our young people, when they came out of the schools, did not get the proper

training on the job. Now, knowing that there is going to be a one-on-one ratio

with the apprentices, this is a good news story, Mr. Speaker, and to know that

we have over 4,700 registered apprentices today in our Province is good news,

and hopefully all of those people will find jobs right here in our Province.

I know I attended a job fair at Ascension Collegiate back some time ago and I

do know for a fact there are more females, more women, becoming involved in the

non-traditional trades.

Mr. Speaker, I just want to say that we agree that this is a good news story

and we want to commend the Provincial Apprenticeship and Certification Board for

taking this initiative.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Signal HillQuidi

Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I am very pleased to stand today and to recognize the positive nature of the

statement that the minister has presented. As she knows, and maybe a lot of

people know, this is something very close to my heart, having worked on this

issue for a number of years before coming to this august assembly.

I am very pleased with the change that is shown here, that a workplace can

now move beyond the one-to-one ratio and include a second ratio when the first

apprentice is in the final year. We now can bring in another apprentice. This is

absolutely essential, and the minister is responding to a cry that is out there

in those, in the skilled trades area saying that the one-to-one was restricted.

This will help increase the numbers.

I am wondering if the minister is building an agenda equity dimension to

this. If a workplace has two positions, will they be asked to try to have agenda

mixed in those two? I put that out to the minister.

The other thing that strikes me is that small businesses may find it

difficult to add numbers of apprentices. Is there any plan in place for giving

some assistance to small businesses so that they too would be able to benefit

from being able to have more than one apprentice in the one-to-one ratio?

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers?

The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HEDDERSON: Mr. Speaker, I rise in this hon. House today to report on

a very positive project for the fishing industry in this Province. I am pleased

to tell hon. members, and certainly the general public, that my department has

provided both financial and in-kind support to a green crab mitigation pilot

project. This included $12,000 in funding from the Division of Sustainable

Fisheries and Ocean Policy. As well, staff from my department worked directly

with students in both field laboratory and classroom exercises to support this

initiative.

Mr. Speaker, the issue of green crab is certainly one my department takes

very seriously. We are very pleased to be able to support this pilot project of

the FFAW and work with the students of Swift Current Academy to carry it out.

The FFAW has led the pilot project in North Harbour, Placentia Bay. As part

of the project a directed fishery was implemented with a goal of capturing adult

species. As well, a green crab education program was implemented to target

juvenile species in inter-tidal regions. Junior high school students from Swift

Current participated in a two-day event in which they learned how to collect

samples and analyze biological data in order to further the study of green crab

in the area. The purpose of the study was to gather information to assist both

the federal and provincial governments, and the industry, to prevent the spread

of green crab to other areas.

I understand the students, Mr. Speaker, were highly motivated and engaged in

the project. Our department officials were impressed by their understanding of

biology and their ability to apply biological concepts when analyzing data. For

that, I would like to take this opportunity to thank the teachers and the

students for the excellent work they have done on this very important project.

This study will provide additional information on the extent and size of the

green crab population in this part of Placentia Bay. Some additional work on the

impacts of the crab on the habitat is being considered as a follow-up study.

There will be a results presentation on the green crab mitigation project in

Swift Current tonight. I am pleased to say that I will be attending that event

on behalf of the provincial government and I will be accompanied by the Member

of the House of Assembly for the Bellevue district. It will take place this

evening at Swift Current Academy gymnasium at 7:00 p.m. Along with a

representative from the FFAW, I will also make a funding presentation to the

school to help with science and technology initiatives.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We, too, want to congratulate all of those who were involved with the green

crab search and destroy mission that was launched in Placentia Bay.

Mr. Speaker, we specifically want to acknowledge the contribution of

government, but also that of the FFAW and of the students at Swift Current

Academy in North Harbour.

Mr. Speaker, green crab is a serious issue for the fishing industry in this

Province. It is one of only four invasive species that threatens our fishery in

the Placentia Bay and Fortune Bay areas. Over the last year or so, I guess the

union in particular, spearheaded a number of events to try and counteract this.

We know that this species has no known predator in our waters and therefore it

requires a great deal of human effort on our part to try and eradicate our

waters from this particular species.

Mr. Speaker, we know that the research team and the local fishermen that were

engaged there, in a matter of something like five weeks had harvested over 500

pounds of crab, I think per day, in something like twenty-nine or thirty crab

pots. Anybody who is engaged in the fishing industry and understands it, that is

a tremendous amount of crab of any species to be taken out over that period of

time. So it tells us that it is a serious problem. We need to learn from what

has happened in Western Canada and the way that this species have invaded the

waters off Vancouver Island and the impact that it has had there.

I say to the minister, that while this is a good project, more needs to be

done. We need to start planning more and investing more and make sure that we

are monitoring all the species that are out there in an invasive manner within

the industry to ensure that we are just not focusing on one while two or three

others are multiplying and causing more damage.

We certainly wish you success with this project as it continues and hope that

we can see more of it in the future.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I thank the minister for the advanced copy of his statement.

I do congratulate the FFAW and all those who were involved in the pilot

project that the minister is speaking about. All my notes here that I have

written echo everything that my colleague just said, so I will not repeat them.

The figure I have is that by the end of September, in one month, the FFAW

retrieved 300,000 crab from the bottom of Placentia Bay. I see one of your

colleagues nodding from that area, who knows that that is a fact.

So we know that we have a major problem. I think government has to be

involved in a long-term, full-scale plan to deal with this. While this project

that you have described is a very positive one, I think we need a plan that is

much bigger in scope and of an industrial nature to really eradicate what is

happening with these green crab.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers?

Oral questions.

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, in questioning the Premier yesterday with the economy, he

certainly expressed some sentiments that government might spend so much money

over the next year that the economy may overheat in Newfoundland and Labrador.

All the while he was making his response, Wabush Mines was letting their

employees know that there was going to be 160 people out of work, in addition to

the contracts that would be cancelled. So, Mr. Speaker, it is a devastating hit

for this community.

I ask the minister today: What is the plan, on behalf of her ministry and the

department, to be able to mitigate what the impact is going to be on this town

and the people that are involved?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Deputy Premier and Minister of Natural

Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

This is a very serious situation for the workers at Wabush Mines, and for the

Town of Wabush and Labrador City as well, Mr. Speaker.

I have set up a meeting, late next week or early the next week, with Wabush

Mines to talk with the management about their plans. I am encouraged at this

point in time, that they are looking at early retirement and trying to find

other measures to lessen the impact on the workers at this time, Mr. Speaker.

What is happening in Wabush is a result of a worldwide economic crisis, and

the response to that is broader than Wabush also, Mr. Speaker. So that is why we

are looking with great interest to Ottawa, once they resolve their current

situation, to see what kind of a stimulus package that they will come forward

with.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, I think the message might actually be getting

through to this minister that this economic worldwide crisis is going to impact

us in Newfoundland and Labrador as well. When I asked her about the economy in

the last few days, it was business as usual and steady as she goes, was her

responses, Mr. Speaker, in Hansard.

Anyway, I say to the minister, Wabush Mines made it known at least a week ago

that there could be some downsizing in their operation. Have you had an

opportunity to talk to the company over the period of the last week or so, and

have you made any overtures on behalf of government in terms of the role that

you might be able to play in mitigating the loss of employment there?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Leader of the Opposition never lets the facts get in the way of a good

story.

When I talked last week, Mr. Speaker, I was answering questions with regard

to IOC and what they had told me, and what they had said was that they were

continuing their operations, it was steady as she goes and business as usual;

they were delaying their expansion plans, but they were doing everything

possible to maintain their permanent workforce, and that was good news.

We also heard from Wabush Mines last week that, because of the 50 per cent

reduction in production in the steel market worldwide, it was going to have an

impact on their operations in Wabush.

We are in daily contact, Mr. Speaker, with these companies.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Well, if the minister is so engaged, she will know that the reason IOC has

not been laying off employees is because they are going to maintain a

maintenance program over a longer period of time.

Wabush Mines was also scheduled to invest $100 million in the upgrades in

their mining operation. Maybe she can tell me why they have postponed that

maintenance program instead of doing it now at a time when the economy could use

the investment.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The answer is quite simple and understood by everybody, I think, in this

Province and in the country. It is because of the loss of markets.

Wabush is involved, at this point in time, in a pilot project with regard to

their manganese reduction, which will have a significant impact on the life of

that mine, Mr. Speaker. That is a piece of work that is critical in the long

term, and I am happy to report to the House here today that they are going to

continue with that piece of investment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, we also heard from Harvest Energy that they were

going to put their expansion programs on hold for the Come By Chance oil

refinery project. Mr. Speaker, in a quote that I heard from the CEO there, he

said refineries must expand or eventually close.

I ask the minister: Can you give us an update as to what is going on with the

Come By Chance expansion project and what it will mean to the long-term future

of that operation?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am happy to report that yesterday morning I had a meeting with John Zahary

and his officials from Harvest Energy and we had a long conversation about the

future of the refinery in Come By Chance, which is very bright.

They are currently looking for a partner for their $2 billion expansion. In

the meantime they see that their operations can continue as they are now, and

they are confident that they will find the investment they require - not at the

present time; it is a bit of a struggle. They understand that investment is very

tight at the moment, but they have delayed their plans, they have not shelved

their plans, and they are very confident in the operations that are happening in

Come by Chance at the moment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is quite obvious that the minister said actually, a couple of times in

a row - that she is monitoring what is happening in the Province. I am not sure

that just monitoring it and waiting in your office for the phone to ring to tell

you the next amount of layoffs in the next mine or the next oil refinery is the

approach to that.

Minister, I ask you: Are you prepared to take further action and to lead

discussions with the industrial sector in Newfoundland and Labrador with the

business community to look at what is going to be required as economic stimulus

investment in order to keep our economy rolling?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, we are engaged with our industrial partners in this Province on

a daily basis. Nowhere, at no time, do I sit in my office waiting to react to

bad news. We are fully engaged. We are fully aware. We are supportive. We look

for advice. We look to have our policies and programs informed by the people

involved in the different industries in this Province, and we have an excellent

relationship with people who are involved in industrial development here in this

Province. Much like the Grand Falls issue, Mr. Speaker, when the Opposition

become engaged we usually have a year or a year-and-a-half work under our belt.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question is for the Minister of Education.

The minister's heavy-handed interference in the appointment of a new

president has caused some serious disruption in the planning process of Memorial

University. In fact, Mr. Speaker, the government is bringing forward a motion

today to try and express their regret for what happened, and her interference.

Mr. Speaker, I ask the minister: Given the fact that the search committee at

the university was disbanded because of the interference by yourself and the

Premier in the Province, can you tell me when that search committee will now be

put back in place and when we can look forward to seeing a new president

instated?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader and Minister of

Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, as the hon. member would know, we just recently

appointed a new Chair to the Board of Regents at Memorial University. I had the

opportunity to speak with the new Chair very briefly a couple of times in the

last week. I certainly look forward to having a meeting with him in the very

near future and we hope to get the presidential search started as soon as

possible.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, it is our understanding that the Board of Regents

has also appointed an ad hoc committee to recommend changes to the Memorial

University Act, which will strengthen the autonomy of the university and in turn

eliminate the interference of government in that process.

I ask the minister: Will you be listening to the recommendations that will

come forward from this committee, and are you prepared to look at legislative

changes if that is what they require?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, I certainly welcome the report from the ad hoc

committee that will come to government through the Board of Regents. We will

certainly take it very seriously. We will look at it. As a government, we will

do the analysis and we will make decisions and act what we feel is in the best

interest of the university and the people in Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, earlier today we received a report on adverse

health events in the Province. Mr. Speaker, we have only had a very short

briefing of this report. It is a comprehensive piece of work, but it appears

that many of the recommendations we feel are there to certainly improve the

system, and unfortunately it seems like a lot of these improvements are resting

on the hands of the regional health authorities and not on that of the ministry.

Mr. Speaker, I ask the minister today if he would be prepared to bring

forward changes to ensure that once the Minister of Health is advised of adverse

health events within the Province, that the legislation will require that it be

reported to the public?

MR. SPEAKER: Order please!

The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

MR. WISEMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am delighted that the member opposite has acknowledged the fine piece of

work that that taskforce has done. It is an excellent piece of work I say, Mr.

Speaker. It is a very comprehensive piece of work. It covers a wide range of

issues from policy to legislation. It talks about the role of the health

authorities. It talks about a whole new reporting process; it talks about some

significant investments that need to be made to make some improvements; it talks

about a process and structure, I say, Mr. Speaker. So it is very comprehensive.

Now, what I had indicated this morning, and the member opposite would have

had some representation at that meeting that I had. I had indicated then that

government only received the report in detail yesterday. We need some time to

evaluate the recommendations that are in that report. I acknowledged this

morning with a media briefing that there were some things there of a policy

nature that we can move on immediately, and we intend to do that. Some of the

other things require much more reflection and to help inform our decision

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please.

MR. WISEMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please.

I ask the hon. minister to conclude his answer.

MR. WISEMAN: By leave, I will just clue up. Thank you.

To help us inform that decision, we await the Cameron Inquiry's report as

well, to help inform some components of it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, it is felt that if there was a requirement in law,

making it mandatory for the Ministry of Health to report these issues, we may

not have ever required the services of the Cameron Inquiry.

I ask the minister, in light of this: Will you please have another look, when

you are reviewing the recommendations, and ensure that there is statutory law

requiring the ministry to make the reports public and to do what should have

been done in the incidents around ER-PR testing in this Province?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, in the same way this morning, in talking about

the report, I acknowledged the great work that Mr. Thompson and his task force

had done, and thanked them for their work and indicated that we would be

reviewing the report and giving it full consideration.

In that same vein, I thanked the member opposite for her recommendation today

and we, too, will take that into consideration as we ponder what we will do. I

can rest assured of one thing, Mr. Speaker, that we will be swift in our

response, we will be appropriate in our response, because we are committed. We

are committed, as I have said in this House many times. We are committed to

quality health care in this Province. I think the investments we have made over

the last five years clearly reflect our intent to strengthen and build the

Province's health care system. Our focus in the last twelve months, with so

many initiatives we have already announced - the accreditation of labs,

strengthening of management information systems reflects our commitment to

quality. So I will take your recommendation into consideration. As Cabinet

colleagues, we will also consider the recommendations you have made in the past

to us. So thank you very much for that.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question is for the Minister of Justice.

I have asked the past couple of days about the release of a certain report,

the one that was done on correctional facilities. I must go back again to

another question that I raised, to which an answer was not given by the

minister, and that concerns the death of a thirty-one-year-old gentleman at HMP

in March.

I understand, again, from the family, the father of the person in question,

that he has met recently, on November 28, with the minister, and from March to

now, nine months, he has been trying to get an autopsy report, a report from HMP

as to what happened to his son, or from the medical examiner and he has gotten

absolutely nothing.

Is there anything, Minister, that you can do to expedite the release of these

documents and this information so that this family will have some idea as to

what happened to their son?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I did meet with the father of the individual who, unfortunately, lost his

life when incarcerated. Since that time, I have discussed this matter with

various officials. I am awaiting the final report of the Chief Medical Officer.

I am asking my officials to explore the options that are available to me, as

minister, and when we have those options, we will make an appropriate decision

and will contact the father and tell him.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the gentleman in question has indicated that the report of the

Medical Examiner has been draft form for some time now, and he has requested it.

Surely, there must be something more that you can do other than say we will give

it to you sometime in the future.

Can't you exert some authority, some pressure, some influence, on the

Medical Examiner so this family can bring some closure to this issue, or else

decide what needs to be done?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. MARSHALL: I am advised that there is a draft report in at the

department but obviously we have to wait for the final report, because the final

report might be different from the draft.

I do undertake that as soon as I have that report and I will be very

happy to call the Chief Medical Examiner and ask if he could expedite the

matter. When I have the report I will be happy to give it to the father, and I

will be pleased to do so.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you.

Minister, we also had a report from the Office of the Citizens'

Representative in June, 2007, done about the women's correctional facility at

Clarenville, which outlines a number of major, major issues and why that place

is in such a terrible state. In fact, I understand it has been under lockdown

now for the past three or four weeks, as indicated by the minister to the media

last week. Some of the reports indicate that a counselling team, Mr. Speaker,

has not even been in the facility since 2006.

I ask the minister: Are you aware of the existence of this Citizens'

Representative Report of 2007, and has anything been done to act upon that

report, or is it merely sitting on the shelf somewhere? Can you tell us that,

Mr. Speaker?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

There was a report from the Citizens' Representative - I think it was, as

the hon. member said, in June of 2007 - in which he made five recommendations.

One was for the Department of Health and four were for the Department of

Justice.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. members for their co-operation.

The hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General.

MR. T. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, as I said, there was a report by the

Citizens' Representative in June 2007 and there were five recommendations made

to government. One was for the Department of Health and the others were for the

Department of Justice.

I can tell the hon. member that one of the recommendations was to institute

video conferencing equipment at Clarenville, and that has been done. I can also

tell the hon. member that on each Friday there is either a mental health or an

addictions counsellor provided by Eastern Health. As well, there is a facilities

classification officer who is a social worker and provides ongoing consultation

to inmates. There was a recommendation that a package, containing information

about community supports, be made available to the inmates of that institution,

and that is being done. There was also -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. minister to conclude his answer.

MR. T. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

There was a recommendation that a pretrial detention centre be erected in

Happy Valley-Goose Bay for the benefit of Aboriginal women who are inmates, and

(inaudible).

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I wonder if the minister could indicate whether or not again, this is

another report, yet another report that was done on the correction facilities

submitted to the former minister in September of this year if, in fact, the

report of September included recommendations as well as to what should be done

at Clarenville in addition to what the Citizens' Representative pointed out in

June 2007?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, I do not know if this is a first for this

House but I could not hear the question from the hon. member. I ask him to

repeat it, please.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Certainly, Mr. Speaker.

My question deals with the issue of: there was a Citizens' Representative

report in June 2007 which the minister just responded to. We also know of the

existence of a corrections facility report that was submitted to the Department

of Justice at the end of September this year. That report is yet to be released.

Can the minister tell us at least whether the situation at Clarenville, which we

was addressed by the Citizens' Representative in 2007, was that also commented

upon and does that form part of this yet to be released report that was

submitted to the Department of Justice in September of this year?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I think the report was submitted on October 1 of this year, just to be

correct. The report, as I indicated, is very comprehensive, very

all-encompassing. I think you may recall that when my predecessor, the Minister

of Finance, who was Minister of Justice when he released the report, the terms

of reference were publicized at that time and they were very broad; looking at

terms of reference to look at the management, look at the organizational

structure, look at every institution, including Clarenville, including

Whitbourne no, not Whitbourne, I am sorry, the seven correctional

institutions - to look at labour relations, to look at health, to look at mental

health as well. As I said, there were seventy-seven recommendations, a very

broad report, and we look forward to its very imminent release.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We are already aware that we have had undertakings from the government. The

former minister committed a release before the House opened, and that is not

done. It is probably going to wilt again on the shelves in the department.

I ask the minister - I read and heard a copy of an interview that you gave to

the media last week dealing with the situation at Clarenville, and in particular

the lockdown that is occurring there. At that time you made a statement,

Minister, that some of the problems at Clarenville might be resolved if the

inmates there were moved to a federal institution.

I am wondering if you might clarify this situation, because my understanding

is that this Province has an exchange service agreement with the federal

government whereby we in fact want to, in most cases, have federal prisoners

here, and in fact the federal government pays a per diem to have them. So I am a

bit confused about your comment that if they leave Clarenville to be put in

federal institutions that will resolve it.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. member to pose his question.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Yet we have a deal to keep them here.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, we do have, as the hon. member indicated, and I am sure a lot of

the citizens of this Province would be interested to know, we have an agreement

with the federal government that people sentenced to federal time can stay in

our provincial institutions. As a result of that we have asked, on numerous

occasions, for the federal government to share with us the joint cost of a new

penitentiary for the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador; but, of course,

certain inmates who are sentenced to federal time would, for certain advantages

that they perceive may be available in federal institutions

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) transferred (inaudible).

MR. T. MARSHALL: Yes, they will want to be transferred. They will want to

go to federal institutions. So I am not talking about forcing people to leave. I

am talking about those who have applied to go to a federal institution and were

simply awaiting the time when they would be transferred.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Government recently rejected the idea of constructing a causeway to Long

Island. It is a very short distance, Mr. Speaker, across the tickle to Pilley's

Island, and residents feel this project would be of great benefit to the region.

I ask the Minister of Transportation and Works: Is government willing to

listen to the people of Long Island and reconsider the decision of cancelling

the causeway?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

In the interest of giving the House as much time as possible, Mr. Speaker, I

will make a very short answer: No.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I thank the minister for his answer.

My next question is: Since the causeway project was cancelled and it is not

going to be reconsidered, the people of Long Island have continually been

ignored and dismissed by this government. That is their feeling, Mr. Speaker.

Most recently, the dedicated ferry service to the island has been diminished and

the number of ferry trips has been reduced.

I ask the minister: Why has government diminished the Long Island ferry

service when there is a need for it to be improved rather than weakened?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, if the previous government had spent a bit of money on our ferry

fleet instead of buying, as our former colleague in the House used to say, a

rust bucket from Russia, if they had spent some decent money on ferries and had

a good, sensible vessel maintenance and replacement program, maybe we would not

be in the predicament that we are with ferries in the Province right now.

The fact of the matter is that we have an old, decrepit fleet of ferries. We

all know that. We went through an exhaustive planning process for a vessel

replacement strategy. We are in the process of implementing that replacement

strategy. We are in the process of beginning the construction on two new

ferries.

Mr. Speaker, as part of that plan, as part of the development of that

strategy, we had a very hard look at the ferry services in the Province, the

number of people that use them, the times of the day that they use those ferries

and, Mr. Speaker, that was the basis for the reorganization of the ferry system

and

schedule on Long Island.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Mr. Speaker, regardless, whether it was a rust bucket from

Russia or wherever, it is little consultation to the people in those

communities. They feel frustrated, knowing the growing concerns with medical

emergencies and access to services being negatively impacted.

I ask the minister: In the absence of a causeway, is government willing to

return to the dedicated ferry service to the people of Long Island?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, as the member opposite would know, and I am sure the people on

Long Island know, most people in the Province know, because of the age of our

ferry fleet we have, from time to time, vessels breaking down. We do not have,

on many occasions, another vessel that we can move into service. I do not think

anybody sees ferries down tied onto the waterfront here on a regular basis, Mr.

Speaker. If they are, it is because they are in there going on dock for repairs.

They are old. We have to try and manage a fleet in a way that we can get it

through the longest possible time period while we are in the process of

replacing the fleet.

Mr. Speaker, we have outlined what we are going to do in the Long Island

area, and that is based on a very exhaustive evaluation of the conditions there.

I do not believe there will be any changes in the foreseeable future.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill

Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Yesterday, the Minister of Government Services did not answer my question

regarding specific cancers that had been proven to be related to firefighting.

Instead, the minister gave a general answer on the professionalism of the

Occupational Health and Safety officers.

Mr. Speaker, there are a number of specific cancers that have been proven to

be related to firefighting and are recognized in other jurisdictions.

So I ask the minister today: When is this Province going to introduce

presumptive cancer legislation as is being requested by the firefighters'

associations?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. O'BRIEN: Mr. Speaker, as I said yesterday, we are not actually

replacing anything. As a matter of fact, what we are doing is or getting rid

of anything, we are actually replacing it.

What we are doing is proposing to get rid of

section 24 and replace it with

section 23 of the WHSC regulations, and then

section 23 will be referenced in

our regulations in OHS.

Section 23 is a more authoritative list and it certainly gets updated

automatically. As a matter of fact, Mr. Speaker, I have in my hands two of the

lists: Occupational Health and Safety

section 24 of the regulations list, which

is one page, thirteen diseases, and the workers health and safety commission

section 23 regulations, which is five pages, thirty diseases, which is updated

automatically at any given time in regards to the experts in the field.

I am not an expert in regard to diseases, so we depend on the advisory

council in workers' compensation and they

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. member to conclude his answer.

MR. O'BRIEN: - certainly bring those things forward.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill

Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The minister might not be an expert in diseases but he is an expert in not

answering questions, because he still has not answered it. So, I will move on.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MS MICHAEL: My question now is for the Minister of Finance.

Mr. Speaker, I, and I am sure other MHAs are receiving many calls from

constituents asking when government is going to release the home heating rebate

for this year. Mr. Speaker, last year we heard stories of seniors going to malls

to stay warm. In a have province, this is not acceptable. In spite of the fact

that we are having a warm spell and it has not gotten too cold yet in this part

of the Province, this is still an issue. We cannot have people choosing between

food, rent and heat.

Mr. Speaker, I ask the Minister of Finance: When is the government going to

announce the home heating rebate for this year?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KENNEDY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

By way of

preamble, the last three years of the Liberal reign, 2000-2001,

there was a $100 rebate, nothing in 2001-2002, nothing in 2002-2003. Last year,

we announced a program on December 15 excuse me, in 2006-2007, we announced

on December 15; 2007-2008, we announced it on December 6. Last year the rebate -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. KENNEDY: - was $300 for households using oil; $200 rebate for

electricity, wood or other heating service; $400 for Coastal Labrador; 76,400

families benefited last year, a $17.5 million program. I am pleased to tell -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. minister to conclude his answer.

MR. KENNEDY: The announcement will come shortly.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The time for questions and answers has expired.

Presenting Reports by Standing and Select Committees.

Tabling of Documents.

Notices of Motion.

Answers to Questions for which Notice has been Given.

Petitions.

Petitions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I want to stand again today and present a petition on behalf of the residents

of Conception Bay North with regards to a long-term care facility.

I know it has been said that everyday I get up with petitions and I have been

also told that there is nothing I can do from this side, but one thing I can do,

and every member in this hon. House can do, is stand and bring the concerns of

his constituents and his neighbouring constituents to the floor of the House of

Assembly.

Mr. Speaker, I know this government recognizes the need for a long-term care

facility in the Conception Bay North area. We know that to be a fact. It was

done through an external consultant's report in 2007. This government was in

power then. It has been said to me across the House: How come you guys did not

do it back in 2001?

Mr. Speaker, we have heard announced this year $1 million to see about two

new long-term care facilities here in the St. John's area. God love the crowd

in St. John's, the people of St. John's, they need long-term care facilities

as well. I am just calling upon government to reconsider, and this year when the

budget process takes place, to see that there is funds made available and

nothing any better than hear the minister when he presents his budget in 2009 to

say that there is money allotted this year for a new long-term care facility for

Conception Bay North.

We know it is not going to be built overnight. We know it is not going to be

built next year or even the following year, but at least put the money forward

and see that the work that has been done in the past, concerns that have been

expressed by the citizens of the area, as well as the professionals, will become

a reality.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Further petitions?

Orders of the Day.

Orders of the Day

Private Members' Day

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, it being Private Members' Day, we call from the

Order Paper the motion that was put forth by the Member for Grand Bank regarding

Memorial University, Motion 9.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Grand Bank.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am certainly pleased to stand in the House today and have a few words about

the Private Member's Motion; not to recap the entire motion because I am going

to speak to many parts of it, but simply to say that the motion is asking for

the entire support of the House today for academic freedom and academic autonomy

for Memorial University.

I would like to start, Mr. Speaker, by having a few words about the

university itself. No doubt for all of us the university is certainly considered

to be a prized possession of our Province. It is a core and integral part of

many aspects of what happens in the Province, and, Mr. Speaker, it is the

largest institution of its kind in the Atlantic Provinces.

By way of reminder, in addition to the St. John's Campus we have the

Grenfell Campus, the Marine Institute, Harlow Campus in England, and many other

extension offices throughout the Province, Mr. Speaker. We boast some 18,000

students with a budget of approximately $400 million.

To support some of my statements I will just reference, Mr. Speaker: recently

Canada's Top 50 Research Universities List for 2008 highlighted that Memorial's

research income grew by more than 116 per cent between the years of 2002 and

2007. As well, Mr. Speaker, the same list indicates that Memorial is ranked

number one in universities offering medical and doctoral programs.

Mr. Speaker, our students, as all of us know in this House, I am sure, are

local, national and international. From the local perspective we have lots of

rural students and lots of urban students. Mr. Speaker, I can say very

confidently and very proudly that our students are certainly winning many awards

and getting many recognitions on the national and international front.

To remind the House of a statement made earlier by a member: Students in Free

Enterprise, SIFE, which was formally known as ACE Memorial, Mr. Speaker; this

group competed with the best and brightest students in the world from more than

forty countries. In order to get the opportunity to do that they had to win not

only a regional championship but they had to win a national championship. Mr.

Speaker, upon going through that process they went on to represent our Province

and our country and they won the world championship, the gold medal, in that

competition. I say, Mr. Speaker, that speaks very well for the students of

Memorial and what they are achieving.

Mr. Speaker, I will say to you as well, that is not the only event of that

nature where our students are achieving very well.

Our graduates, as well, Mr. Speaker, are certainly very high achievers, our

graduates of Memorial and the various campuses that we have. Not only are they

achieving highly but they are contributing significantly not only to our

Province but to the country and to the world as a whole.

I speak, Mr. Speaker, of many groups of people: our nurses, our doctors, our

teachers, our lawyers, our engineers, our fishery and marine employees, our

economists, our scientists, our public employees. All of these, Mr. Speaker, are

very valued to us in the Province and they contribute significantly to not only

what has happened in the past but what continues to happen as our Province

continues to grow.

I say to members of the House, we need only look at our current business

leaders, public figures, community leaders and political leaders at all levels

in the Province. We look at the leadership qualities, the knowledge and the

skill sets that these individuals have and that they are using to help shape the

Province; but, Mr. Speaker, these individuals have acquired the leadership

experiences and their knowledge and their skills through their experiences at

Memorial University.

I also, Mr. Speaker, would like to reference some of the work of the faculty

at Memorial. Certainly there has been tremendous, tremendous leadership by the

faculty and staff at Memorial, and I want to say that we on the government side

of the House certainly value what they do and value the contribution they are

making to the overall success of Memorial. Their ingenuity, their creativity,

they are risk takers, Mr. Speaker, and they are independent and freethinking,

and all of this is what is adding to our student success at Memorial and all of

it is something that we continue to pledge our support for as a government.

Mr. Speaker, also, we recognize the importance of faculty members in their

teaching, and how they are imparting skills to students, how they conduct their

research, how they are moving in the pursuit of knowledge. They are engaging in

fundamental criticism, Mr. Speaker. We also recognize that all of these things

are best determined within the university community itself.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to reference, as an example of some of the many

fine things happening at Memorial, just recently Dr. Jane Green with the Faculty

of Medicine received a knowledge in transition award from the Canadian

Institutes of Health Research. Mr. Speaker, the nomination for Dr. Green was

based on her commitment to helping patients, her commitment and unwavering quest

for knowledge, and her love of information and explaining genetics. In

summary,

Mr. Speaker, Dr. Green is a consummate educator and an excellent researcher.

Further, Mr. Speaker, to highlight some of the great things happening at

Memorial, I reference a partnership between Memorial's Distance Education and

Learning Technologies - referred to as DELT - and the School of Music. This

group, Mr. Speaker, this partnership, is recognized with a national award for

innovation in learning technology. In short, Mr. Speaker, they have demonstrated

a unique set of learning technologies to change learning systems. This, Mr.

Speaker, is very important to Memorial, and it is very important to us as a

government to continue and offer our continued support for what is happening

there.

With respect, Mr. Speaker, to Memorial's contribution to the Province, I

think probably one of the biggest things that we continue to see is Memorial's

continuous focus on public policy and public debate. If we think about the Dr.

Leslie Harris Centre, for example, we continue to see lively debates of public

policy and public initiatives, and I think, without a doubt, Mr. Speaker, all

governments and all public figures of the day are influenced to a degree by the

kinds of debates and dialogues that we see coming out of Memorial.

More than that, Memorial has established a national and an international

reputation as a stellar university and we are very fortunate on the local stage

to have it to support our Province and our continued growth.

Mr. Speaker, I would highlight once again a conference just recently in

September hosted by Memorial, an international conference called Knowledge in

Motion , which was the first of its kind in the world, Mr. Speaker the

first of its kind in the world.

Also, just to follow through on some of Memorial's engagements, Mr.

Speaker, Memorial is engaged and Memorial students and faculty are engaged in

many kinds of outreach activities, many partnerships with health boards and

school boards and zonal boards throughout the entire Province. Mr. Speaker, I am

sure that some of the speakers coming after me are going to reference some of

the impact that graduates and students of Memorial have had on the Province.

Let me say in my own district, Mr. Speaker, we have the Grand Bank Summer

Festival which has been growing in leaps and bounds over the last ten or twelve

years. It is a real economic generator for my district and our part of the Burin

Peninsula, our part of the Province. Mr. Speaker, the entire Grand Bank Theatre

Festival is comprised of current students and former graduates of Grenfell

College in Corner Brook again, to demonstrate the kinds of successes we are

seeing coming out of Memorial.

So, Mr. Speaker, the question is, obviously: Why is this motion brought

forward, having given a

preamble about the importance of Memorial, and how we

see it on the provincial stage and the national and international stage?

In short, there has been much discussion and much debate about Memorial, not

only in the last couple of weeks but the last several months. It is my hope, Mr.

Speaker, through this debate today that we will contribute further to that

discussion but also, Mr. Speaker, we have demonstrated clearly government's

support for the academic autonomy of Memorial University. What I am hoping to do

today is to see members opposite, from the Opposition parties, pledge their

support for Memorial's academic autonomy as well.

Mr. Speaker, we recognize that Memorial is an independent university. We

recognize the importance of the freedom of expression. We recognize the

importance of the promotion of diverse ideas and beliefs, Mr. Speaker, and we

also recognize the teaching of ideas and concepts that challenge the status quo

and do not conform to particular ideologies. We recognize all of those, as a

government, Mr. Speaker, and we recognize that institutional autonomy is

necessary for the proper functioning of the university.

Mr. Speaker, let me also say that the Association of Universities and

Colleges of Canada made a statement on academic freedom and institutional

autonomy. Mr. Speaker, according to their statement their statement - it is

the essence of a university to freely pursue knowledge and understanding and to

search for the reasons of things. It is the essence of a university to question

opinions about things; and, not only is it important, it is the right and the

responsibility of the academic institution to do that. It is the responsibility

of the university to resist ill-advised external pressures from political and

lobby groups, and it is the obligation of the faculty members in particular to

work with their administration and their faculty and their staff to ensure that

these pressures do not unduly influence the intellectual work of the university.

Mr. Speaker, that is a statement on academic freedom and institutional

autonomy from the Association of Universities and Colleges of Canada.

Mr. Speaker, we as a government accept this statement and we support that

statement.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KING: We also accept, Mr. Speaker, that it is essential that

universities have the freedom to set their research and their educational

priorities. Mr. Speaker, that is a reminder to members of the House when we keep

talking about our continued support for Memorial.

Well, let me remind us of a couple of things, Mr. Speaker: We have invested

over $70 million to improve infrastructure, and I am reminded of an example very

recently where the Minister of Education and I attended the reopening of Barnes

House, Paton College. That is one example of the many, many good things

happening at Memorial with our continued government support.

A $90 million investment, Mr. Speaker, on the White Paper for Public

Post-Secondary Education; $30.6 million to support a tuition freeze for our

post-secondary students; $10 million annually in funding for research and

development; and almost $266.8 million this year an increase of over 63 per

cent in the budget in the past five years, Mr. Speaker - has been our support

for Memorial University and post-secondary education.

Mr. Speaker, we recognize that education is not a privilege in this Province;

it is a right. We recognize that we need to continue to support Memorial

University in all that it is doing, to ensure that it is doing the best that it

can for our students, and that includes, Mr. Speaker, recognizing and respecting

the principles of academic autonomy and academic freedom.

Mr. Speaker, I look forward to comments from my own colleagues and members

opposite today. I look forward to comments that focus on the intent of the

motion, focus on supporting our instructors and our professors and our faculty,

comments that focus on supporting our students and helping and supporting their

achievement levels and continuing to support their growth because we know that

is so important to the future of this Province.

I look forward to hearing the Leader of the Opposition opposite when she

speaks and attesting that her support is there for those kinds of things and

that her support is there for my motion, because as I said, education is

fundamental. We all recognize that education is fundamental to the growth, not

only of the individual, but it is fundamental to the growth and the continued

growth of our Province.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER (Collins): Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

It is a pleasure today to be able to stand and speak with regards to the

private member's resolution that has been put forward by the hon. the Member

for Grand Bank.

Mr. Speaker, a lot of the things he had to say I totally agree with. We, on

this side, have stood by the university when all of this has happened in the

media over the last several weeks and months. I have to agree with him, Memorial

University stands tall with any university, not only in our country, but

throughout this world of ours.

Mr. Speaker, I have listened in the last two weeks to what individuals and

hon. members had to say here about what has been accomplished in the past five

years, and I have to agree with them. Myself, and the hon. Member for Signal

Hill-Quidi Vidi, we attended a session at Memorial University - I think it was

called: hot topics, at the time - when we heard and listened to what people

involved in the education field, to the professors and administrators at the

university had to say. The comments that I am going to say here today are not

coming from me for political reasons. They are facts that came forward from

individuals who had concerns when there was an interference with the process of

selecting a president for the university.

One thing I want to note in the resolution to start with, and that is, I

think it is the fifth

whereas.

Section 51 of the legislation

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair directs the Table Officer that the clock is not set properly.

The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: I want to begin, Mr. Speaker, by thanking the Minister of

Education. At least she stood for me and said that they were going to give me a

few more minutes; a minute-and-some-odd seconds.

Mr. Speaker, to get back to the

WHEREAS where it says

section 51. I want to

read it, Mr. Speaker: "An Act Respecting The Memorial University of

Newfoundland, which has been in place since 1973 defines a process whereby

the Board of Regents, in consultation with the University Senate, must forward

the names of candidates for President of the university to the

Lieutenant-Governor in council for approval."

Mr. Speaker, I have a copy of the act here, and

section 51 of the act states,

under appointment of a president, it says: "There shall be a president of

the university who shall be appointed by the board in consultation with the

senate and with the approval of the Lieutenant-Governor in Council."

It says nothing, Mr. Speaker, about putting names forward. All due respect to

the Minister of Education saying that she has to interview them, it says that

the Board of Regents will select it in consultation with the senate and the name

will be put forward to the Lieutenant-Governor in Council.

Mr. Speaker, when we attended that section, the hot topic sessions at the

university, there were many things that were brought forward. The comments were

made that Memorial should be an example of open and thorough debate without any

shadow of political interference. That is not me saying that. That came from the

people at the session. They felt that politician partisan purposes, Memorial

will not have much status among the universities in Canada. Those are comments

that were put forward by people who attended. They went on to say that the

university has a reputation of being placed where free speech can flourish. No

doubt, that is taking place and they felt that that is what should happen in a

democratic society. They must have a right of self-government freedom and moral

independence.

Mr. Speaker, I want to go through some individuals, prominent individuals

here in this Province and outside, the comments they have made when they felt

that the process of selecting a president for the university was interfered

with. One geography professor at the university, Mr. Chris Sharpe, mentioned in

the media: Those who have taken

part in recent presidential searches say that

approval has been just a formality. There has been never any interference.

I know that comments were made by the former president, and I know there were

comments back and forth in the House and said that was not the reason why he

left. I am not saying it was, but the former president of the university, Mr.

Axel Meisen, who resigned his position eight months before, he made one comment

that the government was interfering with the operations of the university. Now

what he referred to, I do not know, but he felt that government was interfering.

The former chancellor, Mr. Speaker, the former chancellor of the university

and now Lieutenant-Governor made the comments. He accused Premier Williams of

putting political ambitions ahead of educational priorities. That is not me

saying that, Mr. Speaker. That is the concerns that he had, who is now the

Lieutenant-Governor, who was at that time the chancellor of the university.

Mr. Steve Wolnietz, a political science professor, he says without autonomy

Memorial will not work. So he must have concerns to even make that comment.

Mr. Ross Klein, President of Memorial Faculty Association stated: what the

minister is doing seems to be a contravention of the Memorial University Act.

MS BURKE: I have his comments here.

MR. BUTLER: The minister says she has his comments and we are looking

forward to them later on, but that is one comment he made. He made that, Mr.

Speaker.

Another gentleman, Mr. Paul Wilson, a member of Memorial University Senate:

everyone at MUN should get involved. Everyone has a stake in the autonomy of the

university. He felt that the minister is overstepping her bounds.

Howard Pawley, Chair of the Harry Crowe Foundation, a group who advocates for

academic freedom, stated he felt that the message at Memorial University is:

better do as we say or else. That is his comments; he felt that it was being

controlled from the top down.

The Board of Regents, they would like nothing more than the Newfoundland and

Labrador Government to revise the Memorial University Act so that government has

no role in the presidential selection process at all. I know from the questions

that the hon. Leader of the Opposition asked today, we know that is not going to

happen very likely because the Premier made a comment across the floor: not

likely. Not likely, he said, we are going to give them a blind cheque for $300

million. That was his comments.

AN HON. MEMBER: Blank.

MR. BUTLER: Blank. I am sorry, my apologies.

Mr. Speaker, another gentleman, Evan Simpson, former vice-president of

academics and pro-vice Chancellor of Memorial University, he said

micromanagement is a poor practice. When government appoints knowledgeable

people to the Board of Regents it should expect them to governor the university.

We go on to the Canadian Association of Universities, their president and

executive director stated that the former board chair erred in agreeing to have

Premier Williams meet, even informally, with the candidates. They stated having

government involvement puts Memorial autonomy at risk. They hope that government

will unequivocally and promptly announce that it will accept the university's

choice for a president, Mr. Speaker, and the list goes on and on.

We totally support Memorial University, but we honestly believe that there

was interference at that particular time, Mr. Speaker.

Those are individuals who are in the know when it comes to university. As the

hon. Member for Grand Bank stated very clearly the stature of the university,

what it is today, hopefully it will be that way for many, many years to come.

Mr. Speaker, the Board of Regents, we know, one of the most important

decisions they used to make was the appointment of a president. Many people have

concerns about the long-term damage that may have taken place hopefully not,

but those are words and concerns of individuals who, from time to time, have

expressed their views, Mr. Speaker.

It has been also said in the media that and maybe the minister - I know

she is the Minister of Education maybe she is acting on advice from the

Premier. Those are not my words. Those were words that were brought forward, and

it was stated that there was no interference. Through the Freedom of Information

there has been documentation back and forth where we know that the Premier's

Office knew about this for quite some time.

Mr. Speaker, when it comes to the resolution that has been put forward by the

hon. Member for Grand Bank, I just want to go down through his resolution.

If Memorial is to continue to enjoy its well-deserved reputation, which we

believe it has, and if government recognizes and is committed to maintaining

autonomy and academic freedom, and if government recognizes that education is

fundamental in Newfoundland's growth and prosperity, and if government is

willing to work collaboratively with the Board of Regents and the university's

administration as is stated in his resolution, if government wishes to confirm

its full support for the academic freedom, Mr. Speaker, and the academic

autonomy of Memorial University, I wish to put forward the following amendment -

an amendment put forward, Mr. Speaker, by the Member for the District of Port de

Grave and seconded by the Member for Cartwright L'Anse au Clair - that the

motion be amended by adding to the end "and give consideration to measures

which would result in the automatic acceptance of the recommendation brought

forward by the Board of Regents for the appointment of a new president for the

university."

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The House will have a brief recess while the Table Officers

consider the amendment.

Recess

MR. SPEAKER (Collins): Order, please!

The Chair rules that the amendment is in order.

MR. DALLEY: As a graduate of Memorial, it is my pleasure to stand in this

House and second the motion made by my hon. colleague from Grand Bank, a motion

to affirm the support for academic freedom and academic autonomy at Memorial

University.

Mr. Speaker, what we are talking about here today is the autonomy and the

freedom that supports the right to teach, to learn, to study, to publish

research material. It is to affirm our support to support Memorial in developing

programs to support emerging sectors, as well affirming our support to encourage

the university to harness the intellectual capacities of students and faculty,

to advance the opportunities, to advance the reputation and indeed advance the

success of Memorial University.

As we know, Memorial is a great tribute to those who fought in the Great

Wars. It deserves the utmost respect, recognition and support. Mr. Speaker, I am

not sure we can measure the impact of Memorial University on the social and

economic fabric of our Province. Nor can we really express in words what

Memorial has contributed to the culture and history of our people.

You could search every bay, every cove, and every community, and I would

suggest you would find a Memorial graduate. Many of our councillors, our church

leaders, our recreation committees, our volunteers, our community leaders, are

made up of Memorial graduates.

We can look in our economy out there across our Province, we can look at our

valued nurses and doctors, we can look at our influential teachers, our

hard-working social workers, and you could go right down the list, and these

people, many of them, have a background from Memorial University.

As a government, and I certainly think indicative of the investment that we

made of over a billion dollars this year, we see education as a priority. We see

it is as essential, fundamental to the growth and prosperity of our Province.

Well, Mr. Speaker, as a government we also have a responsibility to the

people to invest in Memorial. We need to make sure that it continues with a high

quality of education. We need to make sure that it is in a position to avail of

research and development opportunities. Government has a responsibility to work

with the university to establish partnerships, both private and public.

Mr. Speaker, as a government, we want to ensure that Memorial continues to be

a world-class institution. We have invested in Memorial, as my hon. colleague

referenced: $10 million for research annually; over $50 million in freezing

tuition fees to help attract students from around the world; over $12 million in

up-front grants to students to ensure that their educational opportunities are

fair and equal.

We have invested hundreds of millions of dollars, up to $300 million a year,

on infrastructure and operations for Memorial. That demonstrates our government's

commitment to Memorial University, a commitment to create an educational

environment that is conducive to higher learning and scholarship.

Mr. Speaker, with investment there certainly come public expectation and

accountability. In working collaboratively with administration and the Board of

Regents, government has a responsibility to the people, and the people fully

expect government to be engaged with the university. We are talking hundreds of

millions of dollars of public money, and with that we have a responsibility; a

responsibility that we cannot and we will not relinquish when it comes to

Memorial University. We have to ensure, in working with the university, that it

is the best it can be, the best programming and the best experiences for our

students.

We have to ensure that Memorial University continues to be recognized around

the world as one of the best institutes to pursue post-secondary studies. We

want to make sure that when a graduate of Memorial applies for employment, and

the employer sees that this student has a certificate from Memorial, we want

that to be recognized and we want to ensure that our graduates have equal

opportunity for employment around the world.

Mr. Speaker, for the university to continue to meet the needs of the people

of Newfoundland and Labrador and to be the best, as a government we fully

recognize and support that academic freedom and academic autonomy are essential.

Mr. Speaker, when we talk about Memorial University, certainly, being a rural

member from a rural community, I want to point out that when we talk about

Memorial we are not just talking about St. John's campus. There have been

great extensions to Memorial and great benefits to the rural areas of our

Province.

For example, in Goose Bay, Port aux Basques, Twillingate, my home town, we

have a full-time Memorial faculty affiliated with the discipline of family

medicine. Government has partnered with Memorial to establish centres of primary

health care excellence and team building. What we are seeing at these sites; we

are able to promote the cooperation of allied health professionals to provide

the best primary health care possible. These sites have enhanced the academic

and learning experience for medical students and for family medicine residents

in a rural setting. We are seeing an increase in the professional educational

opportunities in the discipline of social work, pharmacy, nursing and medicine.

Mr. Speaker, the decision to expand the medical school outside of St. John's

has enabled us to explore better medical practices, better medical services, and

better management of our health issues. Not only that, not only in providing our

young people with medical experience in rural areas, but this has offered an

opportunity for exposure in our communities, it has provided some stability in

our facilities, and it has inspired more and more people to consider medicine as

a field to pursue in long-term career options.

Mr. Speaker, perhaps when we look at an announcement this week by our Health

Minister where we have seen a net increase of forty positions from March to

October, maybe some of these programs are starting to pay off, and are certainly

enhancing our ability to recruit physicians to the Province, and indeed to rural

Newfoundland and Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, this is just one program and I think I would be remiss today if

I did not point out an important part of Memorial University, and that is the

Marine Institute. The Marine Institute comes under the umbrella of Memorial and

it is an institute in this Province that is fully connected and engaged with our

economy, an economy that is driven by marine and ocean industry. The Marine

Institute has a strong historical connection in our Province with the education

and training of people involved in the fishery, but it is also engaged in the

education and training necessary in the oil and gas industry.

In reading their annual report I notice their vision, the vision to be a

world oceans institute. Setting the standard in education, training, innovation

and research certainly leads to academic freedom and autonomy and an ability to

grow. The Marine Institute, under the capable guidance of the Executive

Director, Mr. Glenn Blackwood, is a world-class facility, ever evolving with

world-class programs and world-class instruction.

A few examples, Mr. Speaker, of how the Marine Institute is supporting the

rural areas of our Province and supporting the economy of our Province: it has

distinguished itself as the only post-secondary facility in the country to offer

remotely-operated vehicle training, new ocean and science technology; the school

has a new applied research unit to oversee major initiatives such as their Journal

of Ocean Technology and the implementation of Smart Bay, the technology that

supports safety and security at sea; and the Marine Institute is home to one of

the world's largest flume tanks, which is a major research and development

piece of facility. It has a ship simulator that is the envy of the industry

around the world. It has even catered to American engineering companies to

consider and test skyscraper designs. The Marine Institute is partnered in over

120 projects in more than fifty countries in Europe, Asia, Africa, the Middle

East and the Americas. In addition to supporting our fishing industry, the

Marine Institute has established an Offshore Safety and Survival Centre campus

in Foxtrap and has also established a Safety and Emergency Response Centre in

Stephenville.

Mr. Speaker, the Marine Institute as a part of Memorial University has a

strong national and international reputation. It is the freedom, the academic

freedom, the academic autonomy, that has helped to establish the Marine

Institute as a leader in ocean science and a world class oceans institute. I

highlight these examples, Mr. Speaker, because I think it recognizes the

contribution that Memorial University has made to this Province, has made to the

rural areas, and I think, more importantly, it highlights the significance and

the importance that our government continue to support the university in every

way that we can.

Mr. Speaker, in conclusion, I would just like to comment that I think many

people of Newfoundland and Labrador have had a rich and rewarding experience

with Memorial University. When we look at the university today we see a

population of some 18,000 students. We see extended programming, leading edge

programming, and we see creative and innovative academia. We see infrastructure

and research growth. Mr. Speaker, what we see in Memorial University today is a

university that has the flexibility and the independence to continue to meet the

needs of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

As this debate continues today, and we look forward to the comments from my

colleagues in this House, I think we will all see the relevance, the importance

and the significance for government to continue to be engaged with the

university. To continue to support the university, to continue to invest in the

university, to continue to make the university the best that it can be to meet

the needs of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador is a priority for this

government and certainly should be a priority for all members of this House.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DALLEY: Mr. Speaker, we have experienced the success of Memorial. As

a government we recognize the contribution Memorial makes to this Province, and

I can tell you we certainly want it to continue. We will be there. We will

support it.

Again, as a proud graduate of Memorial University, I encourage all members of

the House to support this motion to affirm our support for academic freedom and

academic autonomy for Memorial University.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER (T. Osborne): The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to certainly have a few words with regard to the debate that is

ongoing today, the motion that was put forward by the Member for Grand Bank.

Mr. Speaker, as I sat attentively listening to the debate in the House of

Assembly, I think it is quite off-centred from what the motion is. I am hearing

members getting up and talking about challenging us on the other side to support

the students and the faculty and the programs at the university. Mr. Speaker,

there is absolutely no questioning any of that. We support it, always have

supported it and will continue to support it, I say to the Member for Grand

Bank. We have no problem with supporting the autonomy of the university. It is

something that we have practiced in the days and the years that we have spent in

government, unlike your government and unlike your minister and unlike your

Premier, Mr. Speaker, who have meddled in the autonomy of the university on more

than one occasion.

Mr. Speaker, the motion today, as I look at it, is talking about autonomy in

a way that government today is trying to express an apology; an apology for

their interference and their high-handed politics and their invasion of the

rights and the academic freedoms of the university.

That is what they are doing, Mr. Speaker. It is an apology resolution that we

are looking at today, without them actually being big enough to admit: I did

wrong and I should not have interfered. I should not have poked my ministerial

nose into the business of the university because I had no right to do so.

Mr. Speaker, they posed a motion in the House of Assembly today without using

that language but affording for the same

interpretation and meaning, I say to

hon. members.

Mr. Speaker, there is a difference between talking about the autonomy of the

university than the economic and the accredited excellence of the facility. I

listened to the member for Twillingate and Fogo talk about the excellence of the

university - never a question, never called into question in this House. It has

nothing to do with the motion that is on the floor of the House, so I would

assume that whoever prepared the notes today for the members opposite to speak

to this motion, they were somewhat off-centred because we are not debating the

excellence of our academic institutions in this House today, or what programs

they offer in the Province, where their campuses are, what innovative ideas they

had. We are talking about: Does government have the right to stick their fingers

into the business of the university to the point that they tell them who they

can hire for their president? That is what we are talking about here today.

Mr. Speaker, it is an apology, really, on behalf of the government, to say

that we should not have been in the business of the university. We should have

left well enough alone and we should have done our job that is required of us as

Lieutenant-Governor in Council and protected the economic freedoms of the

university.

Mr. Speaker, government likes to confuse accountability with autonomy. They

are two very different issues. I listened to the interviews over the course of

the last number of weeks. In fact, I have copies of all kinds of interviews

here, and clips from the minister herself, her comments, her continuously

sticking her foot in her mouth and her fingers in the wrong pages of

legislation. We have all kinds of clips here that support but also criticize

government's involvement in this whole affair.

Listen, accountability is very different from autonomy. Government's

accountability comes in many ways. I heard comments, I even heard it shouted

across the floor here today, that we put $400 million into the university.

Absolutely, you did, and so you should. So you should, Mr. Speaker. Any

government that sits on that side of the House of Assembly has an obligation to

fund our academic institutions, to provide for proper programs in this Province,

to ensure that our young people have the opportunity for excellence in all

facets of society, Mr. Speaker. That is their job. That is their obligation.

Let's not confuse the $400 million

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, do you think I could have some quiet in this

House? I cannot hear myself think.

MR. SPEAKER: Order please!

I ask for the co-operation of all members. The Chair is having some

difficulty in hearing the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Education likes to poke her

fingers into business she has no affair in but she does not like to sit back in

this House and listen to it when it is done. She does not like to hear it but

she is going to hear it today.

Mr. Speaker, accountability is very different than autonomy. Just because the

government invests in the academic excellence in institutions in this Province

does not give them the right to interfere in certain aspects of it, like the

selection of a president. In fact, this government appoints the Chair of the

Board of Regents. They appoint twenty-one of the twenty-seven board members of

the Board of Regents. They appoint the chancellor of the university. They have

the majority of control over every and anything that happens within the

university from the perspective that they appoint a Board of Regents, they

appoint a Chair, they appoint a chancellor of the university. Everyone knows

that the budget of the university is done line-by-line and it is approved by the

Department of Finance unless that has been changed but it has always been

done that way. So, there are lots of ways in which accountability of the

university and the money that government puts there is answered for in a number

of ways.

Mr. Speaker, the interference of the Minister of Education in the selection

of a president of the university has certainly damaged this institution within

our Province. I do not say that lightly, I do not say that lightly at all. I say

that because there are dozens and dozens of people out there in the academia

profession who have certainly felt that way and expressed themselves very

publicly, in news articles, in the media, on-line, in letters.

In fact, Mr. Speaker, I was even invited to a public forum at the university.

When all of this happened back in September, I was invited to a public forum at

the university, just to talk about the minister's interference and government's

interference in the selection of a president for this university. That was how

desperate that people were to reach out, Mr. Speaker, reach out and let their

message be heard that the academic freedoms of our institution have to be

protected.

So, Mr. Speaker, there were rallies, there were public forums because I

have the invitations here in my e-mail that I was invited to. In addition to

that, there were others who expressed their opinions, and their opinions came

immediately after the disclosure that the Minister of Education not only called

in the two candidates to her office for an interview, but had prepared

questions. Prepared questions, Mr. Speaker, to interview these candidates,

interview them on what their position was on current government policy! Unheard

of! Absolutely unheard of in the academia world of the nation, I say, Mr.

Speaker. Unbelievable! It was on September 11

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I have asked already for the co-operation of the House. I am having

difficulty hearing the Leader of the Opposition. I will ask again for the

co-operation of all members of the House.

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, it was on September 11 when the disclosure came

that the Minister of Education not only had called these candidates in to

interview them personally, but had prepared lists of questions. Questions in

terms of what their positions would be with regard to government policy; where

they were on supporting the initiatives of the government before they could be

appointed to the most autonomous academic institution in our history. It was

appalling, and it appalled the people in the academic world to the fact that it

drew heavy criticism. It drew heavy criticism from groups all across the

country, and she knows it, and their government knows it. People were appalled

at the interference that was being taken by the minister, but let me tell you

what some of them said.

The Canadian Association of University Teachers, for example, who chaired

Memorial's Board of Regents at that time, said they were surprised. They were

surprised that it even had gone this far. That government officials, during a

presidential search process that had drawn scorn from academics as being botched

and reeking of political interference.

Now, Mr. Speaker, the minister herself must have, at some point, said: My

God, I should not be interfering here. I am ruining one of the greatest

institutions of our time, in our Province. I am taking away the academic

freedoms and the institutional autonomy that they have earned over the years.

Why? Because I want to be heavy-handed. Because I want to be the ruler of all

things when it comes to education because I am the minister. I will tell you who

you hire and when you hire them. Well, Mr. Speaker, that doesn't fly. That

doesn't fly where you have institutions that are governed by Statutory Law. It

doesn't fly, Mr. Speaker, in institutions where the academia and the freedoms

of that need to be protected, so that we have a full-fledged democracy where

people can express their opinions and express themselves.

Mr. Speaker, let's hear what the President of the University of

Saskatchewan had to say, who is a native Newfoundlander and Labradorian,

educated at Memorial. Dr. Ivany said that he understands that Memorial

University's reputation has been harmed by this government's interference.

This is what other doctors and professors of academia across the country are

saying; because of the minister's and the Premier's interference. He went on

to say that universities traditionally stand on their own independence, and

there is hardly a government in the world that would interfere with that.

Now, those are some pretty strong statements that must have at some point

registered with the minister for her to get her Parliamentary Secretary to bring

in an apology motion in the House today to say: I am sorry, Memorial. We do

support the autonomy of the university. I will haul my fingers out of the

legislative piece now and I will let you carry on with your work.

Mr. Speaker, at some point between the Canadian Federation of Universities

rapping the government on the knuckles and the professors of other universities

across Canada speaking out against the motion and the movement of the government

in this Province, the minister and the Premier and the rest of the government

must have realized: Oops! I might have done something wrong here.

Mr. Speaker, they have insulted and belittled the reputation of our

university by the way they have acted and by the way they have carried on.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: They know it.

MS JONES: And they know it. That is why they brought this motion in

today. Either that or they knew we were bringing one in anyway, because I had

said it probably about ten times in the media, that we were going to raise this

issue in the House and that we would be bringing forward a Private Members'

Motion.

Too cute by far, Mr. Speaker! Let's run in and get our motion out and make

our little apology to the university and smooth everything over. Mr. Speaker,

this is not the first attempt by this government or this minister to smooth

things over with the university; because, when all this controversy was going

on, she issued a statement saying that they were going to work together, they

were going to do this and they were going to do that, but it all backfired, didn't

it, Minister? Because you failed to talk to the university. You failed to talk

to them and explain to them what was happening, and that was the reason it all

backfired in your face, Mr. Speaker. That was the reason.

Mr. Speaker, even at that time the acting president, Dr. Campbell - who the

minister did not think was able or should not be the president of the

university, although he is the acting president and apparently doing a fine job

over at the university - from what I can understand, Mr. Speaker, he was not

aware of what was going on, and that was the reason that it all backfired. He

said that the university always expected to be kept accountable to the

provincial government, but they do that through their Board of Regents. That is

why government has the authority to appoint twenty-one members of the Board of

Regents, the chancellor of the university, the chair of the Board of Regents,

but not the president, Mr. Speaker, not the president.

So I see this motion today as their apology piece to the people at Memorial

University, that we do understand your autonomy. We are prepared to support that

for now but we will see, Mr. Speaker, if they practice what they preach. We will

see, Mr. Speaker, if they practice what they preach and if they will stay out of

the search process, allow the university to do their job, and support the

recommendations that they bring forward; because, as we know, they are bringing

forward recommendations now for changes in the legislation.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS JONES: So we will see if they support those.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I remind the hon. member that her time for speaking has expired.

MS JONES: By leave, Mr. Speaker?

AN HON. MEMBER: No leave.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is a pleasure and an honour for me to be able to stand in my seat today

and to speak on this very important motion. The motion is that the House of

Assembly affirms its full support for the academic freedom and the academic

autonomy of Memorial University.

Mr. Speaker, I want to make it very clear that I support that motion

wholeheartedly and without reservation.

I should say as well that there has been an amendment put by the Opposition

and I believe, Mr. Speaker, I was speaking on the debate on the amendment today.

The amendment is that the resolution which I just read be amended to add,

"and give consideration to measures which would result in the automatic

acceptance of the recommendation brought forward by the Board of Regents for the

appointment of a new president of the university."

I oppose the amendment but I support, without reservation, the motion.

Mr. Speaker, Memorial University, if not the, is one of the most important

institutions that we have in this Province. I am proud to be a graduate of that

university - as is my wife, as is my son; my daughter had other plans - but I

know that in this House I would imagine there are quite a few members of this

House who graduated from Memorial University. Some probably have more than one

degree. Some have certificates and diplomas.

I heard or I read, I believe it was Professor Paul Wilson at Sir Wilfred

Grenfell College in Corner Brook, I read it in an

article I think he wrote - I

don't know who made the original statement - he said that a university can

change a life, a university could change a town, a university could change a

country.

I believe that. I have seen numerous examples of people whose lives have been

affected for the better, and of places and countries whose prospects have been

improved immensely once a university has been established in a new area.

Mr. Speaker, I know that there is a book written about the history of

Memorial University College and Memorial University, and I know that back at

that point people from here could not get educated in a university here in

Newfoundland, obviously, and they went to Europe there were a lot of people

going to Europe - or they went to the mainland and attended universities there,

and when the proposals were originally put forward to create a university - and

I think they started off with a teachers' college - a lot of people said no,

no, you cannot do it. A lot of people said no, they were opposed to it.

Thankfully, smarter people prevailed and we now have here not just a teachers'

college, not a junior college, we have one of the foremost universities in the

country if not the whole world. It continues to grow and it continues to expand,

and the people of this Province have supported it with their tax dollars, and it

is an institution of which we can be very, very proud.

I have noticed, in particular, under the leadership of the former president,

Dr. Axel Meisen, how well Memorial has done in attracting research funds, and I

think the hon. Member for Grand Bank mentioned that. I think he said number one,

but he will speak to that later on.

Attracting research monies means, amongst other things, jobs for researchers,

jobs for graduate students at the university, but coming out of that research

will be new products and new processes and new ideas. Some bright young student

or bright young graduate student or professor at Memorial, or maybe a graduate

of the Department of Business or a student in the Department of Business, will

seize on the new technologies coming out of that research and will commercialize

those new products and new processes and new ideas to create new businesses, new

opportunities that will, in turn, provide employment and economic growth for our

people and our Province.

One of the differences of opinions that I had with Dr. Meisen was that I

looked at Sir Wilfred Grenfell College in Corner Brook and I said: You have

another university there.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. MARSHALL: You have another university; it is already there. I keep

hearing people say we are going to build a university in Corner Brook. The

university is already in Corner Brook. The buildings are there. The professors

are there. The executive are there. The students are there. We have another

university.

My difference of opinion with Dr. Meisen, which I discussed with him, is that

you are not taking advantage of what you have in Corner Brook, and that you

could do there exactly - not in as large a way but in a similar way - on a

smaller scale, what the university here in St. John's has been doing, and the

wonderful things that it has been doing in terms of attracting research money.

Sir Wilfred Grenfell College, the university in Corner Brook, the university

campus in Corner Brook, is filled with professors and assistant professors who

have their Ph.D, and they are the people that attract research dollars. They can

attract those research dollars and do the same thing at the campus in Corner

Brook as has been happening here in the campus in St. John's and at the Marine

Centre, and we have to do that throughout the whole Province.

We are doing it in aquaculture. The research and development for aquaculture

is taking place down in St. Alban's. I can see us doing more in aerospace in

Gander, and doing mining in Labrador, for example. We have announced recently

the Newfoundland and Labrador Research and Development Council which is headed

by the executive director, Mr. Glenn Janes of Corner Brook, a graduate of Oxford

University in England, who will be the lead on that. Memorial University here

and Memorial University's campus in Corner Brook will continue to take

advantage of that, and we can see not only jobs but economic development for the

people of this Province.

Mr. Speaker, the motion is about university autonomy and it is a motion that

I support, but university autonomy, as I understand it, is to ensure that people

who work at the university have the right to say whatever they want, to have the

right to teach whatever they want, the right to publish whatever they want, the

right to criticize those who operate the university, criticize government and I

support that fully.

I have not seen one instance where there has actually been an interference

with the academic autonomy at Memorial University of Newfoundland. Those who say

there has been, I think it is a red herring. I think it is a canard. Show me the

interference, because no one in this Province and no one in this House would

accept interference with academic freedom of autonomy at Memorial University of

Newfoundland.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. MARSHALL: I know the Premier is a graduate of Memorial University.

The Minister of Education is a graduate of Memorial University. They would not

allow any interference with academic freedom in the Province of Newfoundland and

Labrador, and I believe that most sincerely. I do not think the members in this

House of Assembly would allow something like that to happen, because we have too

much respect and we have too much regard for Memorial University of

Newfoundland, the people who teach there, the people that run the executive

there, and the students as well.

Mr. Speaker, I am also a believer, not only in the freedom of autonomy at the

university but I am also a believer in what we call the rule of law. I am also a

believer that the rules we make and the laws we make are made by not by

dictators and not by tyrants, but made by the elected representatives of the

people.

Memorial University of Newfoundland is owned by the people of Newfoundland

and Labrador and we cannot forget that, can never forget that. The people of

Newfoundland and Labrador who own the university will act through their elected

representatives and through the Cabinet of their elected representatives, to act

on their behalf. It is similar to any corporation. In any corporation you might

have the shareholders. The shareholders elect the directors. The directors pick

the president and the president picks the executive to run the institution.

In Memorial, you have the people as the shareholders. The people of

Newfoundland and Labrador own the university. They are the ones, through their

elected representatives, that pick the board of directors, that pick the Board

of Regents. The Board of Regents, with the approval of the government, after

consultation with the Senate, will pick the president of the university.

Now, Mr. Speaker, I am going to read from

section 51 of the legislation which

talks about the choosing of a president. It says: There shall be a president of

the university who shall be appointed by the board and that is the Board of

Regents in consultation with the Senate.

Obviously, the board of directors, in determining a president, should first

hold consultations with the Senate. The Senate do not have a power of veto, but

they are certainly entitled to be consulted, and I would expect that the advice

of the Senate would be very welcome by the Board of Regents in going through

this process. Then once the Board of Regents, after consultation with the

Senate, select a name, it calls then for the approval of the Lieutenant-Governor

in Council, the approval of the representatives of the people. The approval

because the Lieutenant-Governor in Council is, of course, the Cabinet as

selected by the people of this Province. So accordingly, I cannot support the

amendment to the resolution, and that the president of the institution certainly

must have input. Certainly, the government representing the people of the

Province has a very important role in this particular area.

Again, I have seen no example of interference with autonomy, and I talk about

the rule of law. I talk about the fact that the

section of this act,

section 51,

that govern how the university president is selected, was passed in this

Chamber. Was passed in the Chamber where the representatives of the people carry

out their business.

It is written here that this section,

section 51, was passed in 1973. So that

means that every president of the university since 1973 was appointed under this

particular law. The Board of Regents had an influence, the Senate was consulted,

but ultimately, the representatives of the people, the government, had the right

to approve, based on the fact that not only do you have the academic side of the

university, but you also have the financial side. You also have an institution

which has buildings and needs people to look after them, has administration, has

human resources and these issues. The funding is provided, of course, by the

people, through this House of Assembly, through the budget process, and

therefore it is obviously important that the people of this Province, through

their government, have a role, have an influence in determining who the ultimate

president will be.

The minister also has an obligation to her colleagues. When the Board of

Regents, after consultation with the Senate, should make it a proposal, then

obviously the minister, on behalf of the government, would have to do an

analysis. The members of the Cabinet would have to look to the minister for

advice. So when people say the minister is interfering with the autonomy of the

university, when the minister wants an opportunity to talk to the candidates for

president, I do not see that as interference. I see the minister as carrying out

her responsibility to ensure that when the motion comes forward as to whether or

not the Lieutenant-Governor in Council should approve the suggestion, the

members of the government would look to the minister for her recommendation and

her advice. That is extremely important.

Mr. Speaker, the people of this Province have a role in this process, because

it is their university. The people of this Province express their will through

their elected representatives. The laws that we have passed here, the law that

the minister is following, the law that we must all follow, because we are all

bound by the law. Whether you are the Premier, or whether you are the Minister

of Justice, or whether you are the Minister of Education, the law applies

equally to everybody. No one is above the law. So we have to follow the law. We

have to follow the law until such time as the law is changed.

Now, I just want to mention, because I see the clock ticking down, that there

is an ad hoc committee of the regents and the Senate who are going to make

recommendations to this government. I look forward to that because I think we

will take those recommendations very seriously. There will be a lot of wisdom,

and I know we are all anxious to see what they have to say, but other people

will have an interest. Many people have an interest in the affairs of this

university, even those who have not graduated from the place. That is what I

found.

We will take the views of the people, including this ad hoc committee,

including the Senate, including the Board of Regents, very, very seriously, but

in the end, Mr. Speaker, it will be the people of this House, it will be the

elected representatives of the people of Newfoundland

MR. SPEAKER: Order please!

I remind the hon. member that his time for speaking has expired.

MR. T. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

By leave, I will just wrap up.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: No leave.

MR. T. MARSHALL: No leave.

Thank you very much for the courtesies extended to me today.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi

Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I am very pleased to have the opportunity to speak to this motion today that

has been brought in as a private member's resolution to this House.

When I first heard the motion being made in the House last week, I think it

was, I wondered at the purpose for the resolution. When you read the main

resolve, this is of the main resolution without the amendment, it comes across

as motherhood. Of course we believe in academic freedom and of course we believe

in academic autonomy for Memorial University. Anybody who has any sense at all

does that. Most of us in this room, I think, are graduates of university and

most of us are graduates of Memorial. So, whether we are talking about Memorial

University or we are talking about the University of Toronto or we are talking

about McGill, no matter which university we are talking about, academic freedom

and academic autonomy are something that we definitely say that we believe in. I

mean, nobody in the free world would think otherwise.

I was rather disturbed by the resolution, not because of the content but

because of the way in which it was being put forward, because I think that the

resolution is game playing. I was very interested in the whereases in the main

resolution and they are all wonderful statements and statements that I could

definitely agree with. The one that really struck me was the third

whereas which

says that, "the Government recognizes that autonomy is a necessary

precondition to the proper functioning of Memorial University and has accepted

the Association of Universities and Colleges of Canada's "Statement of

Academic Freedom and Institutional Autonomy"."

Then we come down to the main resolve and what we see is, "THEREFORE

IT RESOLVED that the House of Assembly affirms its full support for the academic

freedom and academic autonomy of Memorial University."

Well, I find it very interesting that while the member and I take it his

colleagues in his party, while they say they accept and agree with the statement

of academic freedom and institutional autonomy, all they are asking us to

support in the resolution is academic freedom and academic autonomy. There is

quite a difference between saying academic autonomy and institutional autonomy.

I do not think I have to go into giving a lesson, but I think we would all know

that academic autonomy would have to do with the autonomy that is there in the

University and in the individuals who teach in the University in terms of the

programs and in terms of how the programs are taught. That would be the academic

autonomy.

That is quite different from institutional autonomy. It is institutional

autonomy that for me is the main issue. There is a reason why this resolution is

here on the floor today. The reason it is on the floor is because we had

something unprecedented, in our history with Memorial University, happen back in

the spring. What was unprecedented was that when the Board of Regents presented

the name of the person or persons - because I do not know if it was