First Session, 43rd Parliament

Official Report

of Debates

( Hansard )

Tuesday, April 1, 2025

Morning Sitting

Issue No. 29

The Honourable Raj Chouhan , Speaker

ISSN 1499-2175

The HTML transcript is provided for informational purposes only.

The PDF transcript remains the official digital version.

Contents

Routine Business

Introductions by Members

Speaker’s Statement

Legislature Staff Thanked

Introduction and First Reading of Bills

Bill M207 — Greenhouse Gas Industrial Reporting and Control Repeal Act

Peter Milobar

Members’ Statements

Food Security Initiatives and Volunteers

Brent Chapman

Eid ul-Fitr

Amna Shah

Kimberley Dynamiters Hockey Team

Scott McInnis

Safe Digging Month

Paul Choi

Sikh Heritage Month

Mandeep Dhaliwal

Victoria General Hospital Perinatal Services

Darlene Rotchford

Oral Questions

Budget Projections and Priorities

Trevor Halford

Hon. Brenda Bailey

Hon. Lisa Beare

Funding for Angel Flight East Kootenay Medical Transport

Scott McInnis

Hon. Josie Osborne

Energy Regulator and Environmental Assessment of Prince Rupert Gas Transmission Pipeline

Project

Jeremy Valeriote

Hon. Adrian Dix

Community Safety Issues in Kelowna

Gavin Dew

Hon. Garry Begg

Hon. Terry Yung

Wildfire Response Services and Rapattack Crew in Clearwater

Ward Stamer

Hon. Ravi Parmar

Carbon Tax Policies

Larry Neufeld

Hon. Brenda Bailey

Funding for Prince George Regional Highway Rescue Society

Macklin McCall

Hon. Spencer Chandra Herbert

Infrastructure in Rural Communities

Tony Luck

Hon. Adrian Dix

Funding for School Districts

Lynne Block

Hon. Lisa Beare

Affordable Housing for Indigenous Persons

Á’a:líya Warbus

Hon. Ravi Kahlon

Budget Provisions and Revenues

Peter Milobar

Hon. Brenda Bailey

Orders of the Day

Committee of Supply

Estimates: Ministry of Infrastructure (continued)

Hon. Bowinn Ma

Misty Van Popta

Elenore Sturko

Anna Kindy

Tuesday, April 1, 2025

The House met at 10:02 a.m.

[The Speaker in the chair.]

Routine Business

Prayers and reflections: Hon. Kelly Greene.

The Speaker : Good morning, everyone.

Looks like people are awake. Eyes are open. Maybe we should serve hot coffee today

instead of water for everyone. But if you want to sleep through question period, you

are most welcome.

Introductions by Members

Hon. Mike Farnworth : On this bright sunny morning, it’s my pleasure to welcome a number of guests today,

more than a dozen, who represent the concrete industry of our province.

[10:05 a.m.]

These individuals are here on behalf of Concrete B.C. and include representatives

from firms across the province, including the Okanagan, the Fraser Valley, Vancouver

Island and greater Vancouver. They play an amazing role in building the infrastructure

that supports both public and private development.

In particular, among the delegation is Jason Saunderson, executive director of Concrete

B.C., who is well known to members on all sides of this House.

We’re also joined by Martha Murray from the Cement Association of Canada.

Would the House make all of them most welcome.

Hon. Anne Kang : In the gallery today, I am proud to introduce the B.C. Federation of Students. They

are here to meet their Members of the Legislative Assembly on topics that are important

to them and on top of their minds. The BCFS represents over 170,000 students across

B.C. from 15 universities and colleges and college student unions.

Sitting in the gallery we have Michael Gauld, Jill Adams, Cole Reynolds, Jessie Niikoi,

Joel Gilani, Emmanuel Adegboyega, Sameer Ismail, Cora-Lynn Bell, Izzy Easton, Kate

Love, Sanchit Kwatra and Wendy Redhead.

Would the House please make them all feel very welcome.

Steve Kooner : It’s my pleasure to introduce Alex Sagert, who is a lifelong Richmond resident.

Alex is deeply engaged in the community. He’s the riding president in Richmond-Steveston

for the Conservative Party of British Columbia. As well, he is a board member of the

Steveston Merchants Association, where he plays a key role in organizing seasonal

events to bring the community together.

Beyond his leadership and community initiatives, Alex is a passionate advocate for

a fundamental shift in how we approach addiction treatment in British Columbia. Having

personally experienced addiction during the toxic drug crisis, he is committed to

ensuring that every city in the province has access to detox and regulated treatment

facilities. His dedication to public service and his vision for a healthier, stronger

community make him a valuable voice in the ongoing discussions on addiction recovery

and support services.

Please make Alex welcome.

The Speaker : Members, introductions should not be more than 30 minutes.

Interjections.

The Speaker : Yeah, that’s the new rule. Thirty seconds.

Hon. Christine Boyle : I won’t take more than 30 minutes.

Today in the gallery, we’re joined by a delegation from Williams Lake First Nation:

Chief Willie Sellars; Councillors Dancing Water Sandy and Shae Chelsea; as well as

WLFN Elders, youth and staff who have joined us on the precinct for meetings with

government ministers and to celebrate their Oscar-nominated documentary Sugarcane .

Sugarcane is, rightly, the winner of many awards and a powerful and important documentary about

the residential school on the Sugarcane Reserve near Williams Lake.

We will, as members, have been invited and will be hosting a ceremony with Williams

Lake First Nation in the Hall of Honour starting at noon today, and then a screening

of the film in the Legislature this evening. I hope that we will see many members

at those events.

I hold my hands up to Chief Sellars and the nation for their work on this film and

all the work that they do in their community.

If the chamber could join me in making them feel most welcome.

Lorne Doerkson : I want to join with the minister in welcoming this delegation here today, of course,

and apologies for duplicating some of the information. It will be an amazing event

in the Hall of Honour today, of course, and the screening later on today of Sugarcane .

I do want to just take a moment to introduce the delegation that was to be here. I

hope all of them have made the trip.

Chief Willie Sellars, Councillor Dancing Water Sandy, Councillor Shae Chelsea, CAO

Kourtney Cook, director of legal and corporate services Kirk Dressler, Lloyd Gilbert,

Kash Sellars, William Lulua, Danika Murphy.

The assistant to the Chief is Meaghan Allen; Gabriel Allen; Emma Allen; Hayden Lens,

who was here yesterday with us; and Nya Chutskoff.

[10:10 a.m.]

Welcome to that incredible team. They really are an unbelievable team. I hope you

all get an opportunity to meet them.

Gavin Dew : I would echo the words of the Minister of Post-Secondary Education in welcoming the

delegation from the B.C. Federation of Students, whom I look forward to meeting with

later today.

I’m reminded of my own first visit to this place 20 years ago, which was as part of

a similar delegation. As I look across the aisle, I see the Minister of Indigenous

Relations and Reconciliation and the Minister of Infrastructure, who were both involved

in student leadership at the same time as I was.

I would say to that visiting delegation and to all taking part that among you is a

future MLA. Thank you for stepping up and leading, and please continue doing so.

Lawrence Mok : Please join me in welcoming my two friends in the gallery, Jason Goertzen and Anna

King.

Jeremy Valeriote : Each of us is fortunate to have teams supporting us in our constituencies while we’re

here in Victoria debating legislation late into the night.

Today it’s my honour to introduce my amazing constituency team: Paige Calvert, Sophie

Wallace and Jatinder Sidhu.

I hope you can all make them feel welcome.

Speaker’s Statement

Legislature Staff Thanked

The Speaker : Well, speaking of teams, on behalf of all of us, I want to thank all our staff for

their wonderful support that we received last night till this morning. We really appreciate

the hard work they all did to keep us going.

Thank you.

Introduction and

First Reading of Bills

Bill M207 — Greenhouse Gas

Industrial Reporting and

Control Repeal Act

Peter Milobar presented a bill intituled Greenhouse Gas Industrial Reporting and Control

Repeal Act.

Peter Milobar : I had such fun with carbon tax yesterday. I rise to move first reading of my private

member’s bill intituled carbon tax industrial repeal amendment act, 2025.

This is a very straightforward bill. After watching what we needed to go through to

repeal the consumer carbon tax yesterday and not knowing what the political winds

of change may or may not be in Ottawa, it seems fitting that we would take the steps

necessary to get B.C. out of the business of the industrial carbon tax as well.

Obviously, the federal backstop would still kick in, so industrial emitters would

still be required to adhere to the same output-based pricing system that currently

is in place throughout the rest of Canada and which B.C. is already essentially synced

to.

I would also point out that it used to make sense for B.C. to control the $3-billion-plus

worth of revenue instead of sending it to Ottawa to hope to get that money back, but

as we clearly have discovered, there’s $200 million or less left of carbon tax collection.

It seems like, in a time when government is trying to find efficiencies, running a

whole department to manage one thing that could easily be managed by the federal government

instead would make much more sense.

Also, at a time when we have interprovincial trade barriers being the topic of the

day, this would be one more step of aligning our industry with the rest of Canada,

in lockstep, to make sure that there was consistency across Canada.

This, again, does not necessarily remove industrial emitters from the carbon tax within

B.C. It simply shifts the administration of it over to the federal government, and

if the federal government makes any changes to that, B.C. would already be in sync.

Whether that happened in July, we would not be forced to call this Legislature back.

This would already be in place, we would already be removed, and the federal rules

would stay in place as they change or do not change moving forward.

I do hope the House will see their way forward to bringing this bill forward for further

debate and, most importantly, royal assent, as there is no retroactivity clause in

this carbon tax bill.

Motion approved.

Peter Milobar : I move that the bill be put on orders of the day at the next sitting after today.

Motion approved.

[10:15 a.m.]

Members’ Statements

Food Security Initiatives

and Volunteers

Brent Chapman : We have a lot of hungry people all across the province of B.C. So many British Columbians

don’t like what they are seeing, but what can they do? Good people want to help. They

leave food for a donation where they shop. They donate money to local charities. However,

especially these days, it doesn’t seem like it is enough.

In my riding, a group of men go out on a nearly daily basis to collect food from local

grocery stores who have to move groceries that are a few days away from expiring.

The guys, as they call themselves, do not ask for any money. They get a call that

food is ready to go. They get in their trucks, pile in the food and head to the spots

in the area where they either load up hampers in the neighbourhood or they have regulars

who take enough to give to their networks who know the people and families who are

in need.

They do it all with a smile on their face. They don’t take any credit. If you push

them a bit, they’ll tell you that the people are so wonderful and appreciative that

they know they’re doing something good. And they are.

Speaking of unheralded generosity and charity, the Guru Nanak food bank serves Delta

and Surrey. Now it’s Sikh awareness month, but the Guru Nanak food bank doesn’t need

any special occasion to help so many. They have been doing it for more than four years,

and everyone is welcome.

They operate in both Surrey and Delta, supplying anyone in need, regardless of ethnicity.

They do blanket drives and help with some household supplies, as well as food. They

also provide items to help international students. Their operating revenue is sourced

from community support and donations. Their growing numbers are not in the government

food bank numbers as they provide to those in need outside of a society that receives

government funding.

Then there is the Guru Nanak’s Free Kitchen, formed in 2006 by Indy Panchi. It is

a registered charity that is volunteer-led. Since its inception, it has served over

1.2 million free meals to the residents of the east side and across the Lower Mainland.

Ninety-nine percent of the people they help are not Punjabi. Their motto? “Love all;

feed all.” Indeed.

We thank all those volunteers.

Eid ul-Fitr

Amna Shah : On March 31, Muslims across B.C., including myself, celebrated Eid ul-Fitr, which

marks the completion of the sacred month of Ramadan, a month which taught us patience,

discipline, humility and empathy.

This celebration is a moment for Muslims to rejoice in their spiritual achievements.

It’s about our strength and resolve to live a life filled with gratitude and sincerity

towards the Creator and the countless blessings that we have — our faith, our health,

our families and our communities — because there are too many people who do not have

just that.

There are those across the world who are the victims of war, suffering relentlessly,

lacking the basic necessities of life. Muslims in Gaza were fasting for the second

year in a row, all while suffering immense loss and enduring profound pain. That is

true faith.

On Eid I thought to myself: “When you have lost your entire family and everything

that you hold dear to you right in front of your eyes, what could you celebrate?”

But I realized that their resilience is much stronger, their resolve much greater

than my own comprehension, and all I know is that the value of every human life is

sacred, and we cannot truly understand this unless we recognize life’s fragility,

the importance of protecting it and then acting to preserve it.

Muslims give zakat, which is an obligatory charity for those in need, so that we can

try to protect life and lift everyone up, because we realize that our faith is not

just individual but collective. Our actions affect the well-being of others, and our

success is intertwined with the success of our communities.

So to my Muslim brothers and sisters, may this Eid bring you all the joy that comes

from a heart that is content, a soul that is at peace and a life that is dedicated

to service.

Eid Mubarak.

Kimberley Dynamiters Hockey Team

Scott McInnis : In 1978, the Kimberley Dynamiters won the ultimate prize in Canadian men’s senior

hockey, the Allan Cup, a trophy which has been competed for since 1909. In ’78, the

Dynamiters beat the Brantford knights 4-1 in a best-of-seven series. The team played

nearly 100 games that season. It was the second time Kimberley won the national prize

since 1936, when they beat the Sudbury Falcons to take home the trophy.

Kimberley was an attractive hockey town for these senior men’s players. Many had just

finished playing professional hockey, including Barry Cummins, now VP of the Kimberley

food bank, who played for the California Golden Seals in the National Hockey League;

and Aurel Beaudin, also known around Kimberley as Frenchie, who played professionally

for over a decade.

[10:20 a.m.]

It was the community opportunities which attracted these high-level talents to Kimberley.

Most players worked in the mighty Sullivan Mine, which was the largest lead-zinc producer

in the world for nearly 100 years. They were also granted the opportunity to advance

their education through their work with Cominco.

Players from that ’78 team stayed and put down long-lasting roots in the community.

If you go to the Kimberley Elks on any given Saturday afternoon during their weekly

meat draw fundraiser, you’ll find a table of these retired players reminiscing about

the team and how much fun they had during that memorable season. Their lovely wives

make corrections to the sometimes exaggerated stories and keep the boys humble at

the same time.

The players who remain in Kimberley from that ’78 winning team are idolized and respected

in the community as local heroes and are recognized everywhere they go. The Kimberley

Dynamiters turned 100 last year. When you talk to the Allan Cup–winning alumni, they

sing praises of the glorious teams that came before them, always being humble.

On July 12, at the South Okanagan Events Centre, all the boys will be in town for

their official induction into the B.C. Hockey Hall of Fame. I will be there proudly

joining the celebration alongside them, which also includes retired NHLers Shawn Horcroff

and Dan Hamhuis.

Please join me in congratulating these local hockey heroes as they rightfully take

their place permanently in B.C.’s hockey history books.

Safe Digging Month

Paul Choi : I rise today to recognize April 2025 as Safe Digging Month in British Columbia.

With spring around the corner, we are seeing a rise in construction and development,

along with several groundbreaking projects across the province. While we welcome the

warmer weather and the flurry of construction activities that comes along with it,

it is important that we take our underground utilities into account and adhere to

safe digging practices.

Underground utilities provide services that play a crucial role in supporting the

lives of people in British Columbia. These utilities include lines, cables for gas,

electricity, telephone, internet and TV and pipelines for water and sewer. Their seamless

functioning is integral to the public infrastructure that keeps our communities warm,

lit, safe and healthy.

The smallest error can cause severe damage to those utilities and, more importantly,

may pose significant risk to human life. That’s why we must practise utmost caution

while digging up the land, whether it’s for a large construction project or landscaping

your backyard.

Various events and campaigns have started in the province, with the aim of advocating

safe digging practices. It’s our shared responsibility to ensure the safety of the

public and the environment by preventing accidents during groundbreaking activities.

Workers and the public should take the necessary steps to know where underground utilities

are. This includes dialing B.C. One Call on your phone or clicking B.C. One Click

on your device prior to digging. An action as simple as a click or call before starting

your project can keep you, your co-workers and your neighbours safe and prevent the

possible interruption of services.

Today I would also like to take this opportunity to acknowledge the British Columbia

Common Ground Alliance. They are a multifaceted stakeholder group leading the development

of the highest standards of safety and spreading awareness about the risk of ground

disturbance.

Together we aim to foster open communication for occupational health and safety in

our communities and create a culture of safety in all B.C. industries.

I request everyone to be safe and call B.C. One Call and use B.C. One Click.

Sikh Heritage Month

Mandeep Dhaliwal : I greet you with a Sikh saying. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh. This

means: “The Khalsa belongs to God, and victory belongs to God.” It is about faith,

equality and community.

Today and for the month of April, we celebrate Sikh Heritage Month. Sikhs have been

part of British Columbia for over 100 years. They helped to build our railways and

industries. They believe in hard work, helping others and standing for justice.

Canada has the largest community in the world outside of India, and about 300,000

Sikhs call British Columbia home. Sikhs have a rich history in municipalities from

Abbotsford to Golden.

[10:25 a.m.]

Every year the Vaisakhi parade in Vancouver and Surrey brings people together. The

Vancouver parade happens in Punjabi Market. The Surrey Vaisakhi parade is the biggest

outside of India. With over 500,000 people, there are floats, music and free food

for everyone. The refreshments are offered by local businesses and residents as an

act of what we call seva in Punjabi, selfless service.

This year the Vaisakhi event is in Vancouver on Saturday, April 12, and the Vaisakhi

parade in Surrey is on Saturday, April 19.

Let’s thank the Sikh community for all they have done for B.C. and Canada.

Victoria General Hospital

Perinatal Services

Darlene Rotchford : I’d like to begin by acknowledging today that I’m coming to you from the traditional

territories of the Songhees and Esquimalt peoples, and I want to thank them for allowing

me to work, play and, most importantly, raise my family on their lands.

Today I want to speak about the amazing work of the staff of Victoria General Hospital.

It is an honour to have this hospital in the riding of Esquimalt-Colwood. They do

so much great work that I couldn’t possibly put into two minutes everything they do,

but I will speak about some of the important work that gets done at Victoria General

Hospital for the Island. I want to talk about the amazing staff at labour, delivery

and postpartum.

On March 13, little Jo decided she could no longer wait and wanted to embrace the

world a little bit sooner than my family had expected. The staff were ready to assist

me and my husband to ensure that this was done with the best care available. The staff

were kind, caring and went beyond to make sure she arrived safely into this world.

Once she was here, they made sure that me and her were well taken care of.

This is my second child that I’ve had the privilege of taking into the world at Victoria

General Hospital, in my riding. The staff that do this work do it 365 days a year,

seven days a week, 24 hours a day. They deliver the care that’s best for the next

generations of British Columbians and their parents on the Island.

I want to specifically give a shout-out to Nurse Darlene. Yes, I know the irony that

we have the same name.

The reason I want to bring her up is because not just during bringing little Jo into

this world but when I brought my first daughter, Evie, into this world, Nurse Darlene

was there to ensure that as a new parent who was going through a rough time, and then

this time with a totally different experience, I knew everything I needed to know

in regards to becoming a parent not just through my birthing process but my labour,

delivery and on my way home.

I just want to give a shout-out again to everyone at Victoria General and postpartum

labour delivery and thank you all for everything you do in showing up to work every

day to make sure that the next little British Columbians are coming into this world

in a safe and happy environment.

Oral Questions

Budget Projections and Priorities

Trevor Halford : Just one month ago this government delivered a budget that is completely unreliable

and completely unrealistic, a $4 billion contingency fund almost all gone and now

a $3 billion drop in revenue. The servicing costs on this new debt over the next three

years will cost taxpayers over $215 million.

My question is a very simple one. What services is this Premier going to cut?

Hon. Brenda Bailey : To the member opposite: thank you for the question.

This budget focused on a number of specific things. One is protecting core services

for British Columbians. We know, in these times of uncertainty and threat from the

south, this is not the time to make big cuts for people.

We’re also….

Interjection.

Hon. Brenda Bailey : If the member would let me finish.

We’re also deeply focused on looking at our own spending. This is about ensuring that

every dollar…

Interjection.

The Speaker : Member.

Hon. Brenda Bailey : …that British Columbians trust us with is well deployed. It’s normal to do a review

and take a look and make sure that things are landing exactly as we wanted them to.

We’re doing that work now.

It’s very important, also, that we’re focused on growing the economy. That piece is

absolutely key.

I have many more things to add to that. I suspect I might get the opportunity.

[10:30 a.m.]

The Speaker : Member, supplemental.

Trevor Halford : Here’s the problem with the minister’s answer. The cuts — they’re are already happening.

We’ll talk about that in a second.

The minister gets up and talks about the fact they’re going to review their own spending.

That’s great. She can start with the person next to her, in the Premier’s office,

who’s seen his office increase double fold with his own political staff, including

a sweetheart severance package to his chief of staff of almost $300,000.

Start with that, Minister.

The minister is talking about cuts. Let’s talk about cuts. Let’s talk about the cuts

that they’ve made. Let’s talk about the cut to the Surrey–White Rock Learning Centre.

A cost of $200,000 annually to keep that open, over 150 kids served by that, cut by

this government.

Band programs for kids in Surrey cut by this government. Buses for kids with disabilities

cut.

Interjection.

Trevor Halford : It’s right, true — cut by this minister.

My question is a simple one. What other cuts can this government expect from this

minister, from this Premier because of their incompetence?

Hon. Lisa Beare : I think it’s really important to let the member know that in the face of economic

uncertainty and what’s happening in the south, our government made really strong choices

in this year’s budget to protect….

Interjections.

The Speaker : Let me know when you are finished.

Minister will continue.

Hon. Lisa Beare : Thank you, Speaker.

We made really strong choices to ensure that we’re protecting core services like education.

The Surrey school district is receiving over $1 billion…

Interjection.

The Speaker : Member.

Hon. Lisa Beare : …in operating funding this year, which is a 62 percent increase from when we formed

government.

I want to let the member know that decisions about local education….

Interjections.

The Speaker : Members. Members come to order. Members. The question was asked. Now let the minister

answer.

Minister.

Hon. Lisa Beare : Surrey school district received $641 million under the Leader of the Opposition.

They now receive over $1 billion under our government.

Decisions around local programming are made at the school district level. I know the

member knows this. I know the member will be advocating in his community, with his

local school district, where he should be.

Funding for Angel Flight

East Kootenay Medical Transport

Scott McInnis : Last year Angel Flight East Kootenay provided flights for over 1,000 critically ill

patients from Cranbrook to Kelowna for treatment, primarily for cancer care. To continue

to provide this critical service, they have requested a mere $250,000 from the province,

with no response.

The cost of servicing the debt after the cancellation of the carbon tax could pay

for 210,000 angel flights.

Why is this government cutting Angel Flight East Kootenay?

Hon. Josie Osborne : Thank you to the member for the question.

I think he very rightly points out that people living in rural communities depend

on government and other partners to help reduce the barriers and costs that they face

when accessing cancer care. That’s why we have invested millions of dollars into assisting

people with their travel costs, and specifically on cancer care, through programs

like Angel Flight, through programs like taking care of the accommodation costs that

people face.

Interjections.

The Speaker : Members, please.

[10:35 a.m.]

Hon. Josie Osborne : The member points out that Angel Flight undertakes incredibly important services,

that they have had a funding agreement with the province in the past.

I would ask the member and this House to wait just a little bit longer to learn what

we’re going to be doing…

Interjections.

The Speaker : Members.

Hon. Josie Osborne : …with Angel Flight.

The Speaker : Member, you have a supplemental.

Scott McInnis : Respectfully, that answer is completely unacceptable.

This service is provided through volunteer pilots on their time off. This government

gave $1.2 million to the Drug User Liberation Front but can’t find $250,000 to transport

critically ill patients in the East Kootenay for life-saving treatment. This and Penny

Ballem’s increased salary could have paid for these angel flights.

My question again: why is this government cutting Angel Flight East Kootenay?

Hon. Josie Osborne : This government isn’t cutting Angel Flight East Kootenay.

Energy Regulator and Environmental

Assessment of Prince Rupert Gas

Transmission Pipeline Project

Jeremy Valeriote : Citizens should not be responsible for making sure regulators are following the rules.

But that’s what Indigenous and non-Indigenous groups were doing in court last week,

arguing that the B.C. Energy Regulator broke its own rules to greenlight construction

of the Prince Rupert Gas Transmission pipeline.

The PRGT pipeline goes through some of the most critical salmon habitat in our province.

Impacts to salmon, ecosystem health and communities were supposed to be assessed in

a cumulative effects assessment, yet the B.C. Energy Regulator bypassed this legally

required assessment of PRGT and allowed the rushed start of construction on a

section

of the pipeline.

My question is for the Minister of Energy. Will he ensure the B.C. Energy Regulator

follows its own rules and conducts a cumulative effects assessment of the PRGT project?

Hon. Adrian Dix : The member will know that this matter, the issue of the substantial start of the

project, is before the environmental assessment office right now and going through,

as he would expect, a thorough review.

The B.C. Energy Regulator does an excellent job in regulating, based on the very thorough

laws in British Columbia, energy projects and will continue to do so.

The Speaker : Member, supplemental.

Jeremy Valeriote : As the minister noted, the project is awaiting a substantial start decision after

the ten-year environmental assessment expired last November. Besides being taken to

court, PRGT has already been given a warning for environmental violations, because

pipeline workers failed to properly assess endangered species habitat before clearing

land.

It’s clear this project is being rushed through, putting communities, water, endangered

species and ecosystems at risk. Local residents say their concerns have not been acknowledged,

much less addressed, by government or industry regulators.

The decision to approve the PRGT pipeline is expected in the coming weeks.

My question this time is for the Minister of Environment and Parks. Will she direct

PRGT to complete a new environmental assessment that takes into account the true scale

of harm to communities and the environment?

Hon. Adrian Dix : We have an environmental assessment process that applies in this case. It’s being

thoroughly applied by the regulator. The reason you have such reviews and environmental

assessments is to allow such independent review to take place, and that assessment

is occurring.

I understand the member may have strong views himself and may want to make representations

in that process, and in some ways, what he’s doing now is a form of representation,

I suppose.

But the environmental assessment, the project, on the issue that the member raises,

is before the environmental assessment office, and they’ll be making a decision in

due course.

Community Safety Issues in Kelowna

Gavin Dew : The only Social Development office in Kelowna was moved into the heart of the Rutland

business community. Since then, small businesses have seen net profits go down 25

percent each year because their customers feel unsafe.

When the small business community asked the ministry office to provide additional

security 24-7, the ministry declined. When they asked the ministry to join them and

the city of Kelowna in financially supporting their on-call neighbourhood patrol team,

the minister declined.

[10:40 a.m.]

Government is about making choices. Why has this government prioritized funding the

Drug User Liberation Front while leaving hard-hit small businesses paying out of pocket

for neighbourhood security as they struggle to survive the consequences of failed

NDP drug policies?

Hon. Garry Begg : Thank you to the member opposite for the question.

I’ve said this many times in this House, and I believe it to be true. Every British

Columbian should feel safe wherever they are in the province, including in Kelowna.

Interjections.

The Speaker : Members, you don’t have to chime in every time, please, when somebody stands up.

Please.

Hon. Garry Begg : You will know that we are strengthening policing but also rebuilding the critical

services that support policing all across the province.

The opposition leader’s old government cut funding for crime prevention. We have enhanced

it. We’ve strengthened policing, and we will continue to do that.

The Speaker : Member, supplemental.

Gavin Dew : On Sunday, I was cleaning up garbage, crack pipes and needles on the streets of Rutland

with residents, and I can assure you that the minister’s promise of people feeling

safe rings hollow with what people are going through.

The Minister of State for Community Safety was in Kelowna last week visiting with

stakeholders, and I’m sure he got an earful.

Can the minister of state please let us know what specific commitments and action

items he committed to in order to address the consequences of this government’s failed

drug policy in my riding and in the community of Rutland in particular?

Hon. Terry Yung : Thank you for the question.

I was in town the last week. I met your city representative, your mayor, the BIA,

the residents association, part of the SOS team. I listened very carefully to what

some of the initiatives are that can bring balance back to the community.

The conversation is ongoing, including a few items, and I’ll be more than happy to

discuss. It’s a little too long to do it now, but we are going to work together to

make sure people feel safer in your neighbourhood. You have my word on that.

Wildfire Response Services

and Rapattack Crew in Clearwater

Ward Stamer : The government used to fund rapattack crews for wildfire response in Clearwater.

Sadly, this government dropped the rapattack crew in Clearwater a couple of years

back.

The district of Clearwater has now been forced to use their own municipal funds to

set up and pay for a rapattack crew to protect their community this summer.

Why is the Premier forcing communities to protect their citizens from a wildfire because

this government won’t, and how many other communities will now have to fund their

own wildfire response teams?

Hon. Ravi Parmar : I was a little eager to get up because I was in Clearwater a couple of weeks ago.

I had an opportunity to be able to meet with the mayor. I spent quite a bit of time….

Interjection.

Hon. Ravi Parmar : Keep wasting your time.

I had an opportunity to be in Clearwater. I had a chance to be able to meet with the

mayor and council, talk about the challenges in their community and also the opportunities

that are before us.

First of all, the B.C. Wildfire Service is world-class, absolutely world-class. For

the members across the way to think that the B.C. Wildfire Service would abandon communities

like Clearwater is absolutely shameful.

If there are fires in communities, the B.C. Wildfire Service will be ready to respond,

whether it’s in Clearwater, Prince George, anywhere. That’s our commitment to British

Columbia. That’s our commitment to the people of Clearwater.

The Speaker : Member, supplemental.

Ward Stamer : While the minister is talking about his listening and learning tour, he did not support

the rapattack crew in Clearwater.

He did not support funding for that critically needed service, so the minister is

not being truthful when he says there are the necessary resources needed for these

communities.

[10:45 a.m.]

Hon. Ravi Parmar : I’d be happy to sit down with the member and explain how wrong he is. These are decisions

made by the B.C. Wildfire Service. I would add, and I had this conversation with the

mayor, that there are a number of reasons where we deploy resources and a number of

situations in which we have conversations with local government leaders.

I welcome the decision by the mayor and council in Clearwater to be able to join us

in developing their own resources that we would help fund in the case of upcoming

wildfire seasons. But for the member across the way to somehow insinuate that we are

not providing supports to communities, that we would somehow not support a community

like Clearwater if a wildfire occurred is absolutely wrong and really unfortunate.

The B.C. Wildfire Service is world-class. Just ask the people of California. When

they needed help, the B.C. Wildfire Service stepped up and headed down — over 40 people,

incident management teams, wildfire attack crews.

We will support communities like Clearwater. We will support communities all across

the province. It’s why we had a record year with people wanting to join the B.C. Wildfire

Service. Boot camps are starting next week. We’re ensuring that we’re ready to go

for the 2025 wildfire season.

Carbon Tax Policies

Larry Neufeld : The Premier and the Finance Minister have thrown B.C. into a fiscal black hole. This

government will be forced to cut and underfund services in order to keep within their

record-setting $11 billion deficit.

The government already needs to cut $1.8 billion due to the consumer carbon tax.

Why don’t they remove the $200 million associated with the industrial carbon tax as

well?

Hon. Brenda Bailey : Thank you to the member opposite for the question.

We made a commitment during the election that when the federal government stepped

back on their carbon pricing, we would do the same thing. That is what we did yesterday,

but we will ensure that large emitters continue to pay their fair share.

Funding for Prince George

Regional Highway Rescue Society

Macklin McCall : The Prince George Regional Highway Rescue society is a volunteer team responding

to Highway 16 and Highway 97 accidents. They remain chronically underfunded, begging

for enough to continue to serve their community. They often ask for $100,000 and only

get $40,000.

This government found $16 million to push illicit drugs on B.C. residents.

Why can’t they support the hard-working people of the North who are doing everything

they can to keep their communities safe?

Hon. Spencer Chandra Herbert : Our community charities do incredible work, and that’s why I’m proud our gaming grants

continue to provide them with resources of over $140 million. We increased the funding

to allow for capital funding for community non-profits, like the member mentions,

by bringing $5 million more into the system — to support them with their equipment,

with their life-saving necessities, in many cases; to do upgrades; and to support

their work.

I’m happy to hear more from the member, but I would encourage any member, if they

have questions about gaming grants and how they might have affected different non-profits

in their communities, to reach out to the community gaming grants program themselves.

They’re a wealth of information. They have really good information about the application

process and how to ensure that community charities get the best for their neighbourhoods.

Infrastructure in Rural Communities

Tony Luck : In many of our small rural communities, infrastructure is a huge concern.

Lillooet, a small community of 2,000 citizens in my riding, requires about $100 million

in upgraded infrastructure to survive. Other small communities around the province

need even more.

Why does this government continue with its anti-resource-development agenda, knowing

it’s starving rural communities of the funds and jobs they need to survive?

Hon. Adrian Dix : Recently in response to American actions against Canada, we highlighted 18 projects

across B.C. The official opposition is against 12 of them — against 12 of them.

[10:50 a.m.]

Eighteen projects creating thousands of jobs in every part of B.C., and they were

against them. They talk a good game. When it comes to real projects in real communities,

they’re against them.

Funding for School Districts

Lynne Block : I just want to clarify a statement made earlier regarding Surrey’s school district

budget, that it was $640 million and is now $1 billion. That’s because there are more

students, along with inflation and salary increases, and so on, not because there

are more dollars per student or more money for programs. Just to clarify.

In 2017, the B.C. NDP committed to remove portables from Surrey. I believe it was

by 2020. Eight years later there are more portables than ever, and the costs of the

portables and the moving of the portables and the upkeep of the portables has cost

Surrey school district directly, like many other school districts, millions of dollars,

millions that should have been spent on student learning.

How many school districts like Surrey will have to continue to cut vital programs

like the learning centres for our students because of government cuts?

Hon. Lisa Beare : The member just simply couldn’t be more wrong.

The very first thing our government did when we formed in 2017 was invest $1 billion

extra into the education system, which was critically underfunded by those members.

The Leader of the Opposition and his government closed 256 schools. They sold 21 properties

in Surrey that could have been used for schools, could have been used to eliminate

portables.

They fought teachers all the way to the Supreme Court, costing the system millions

of dollars and not focusing on….

Interjections.

The Speaker : Members. Shhh, Members.

Hon. Lisa Beare : The Leader of the Opposition and his government didn’t focus on students. They didn’t

focus on employees in the school district. They didn’t focus on the core needs of

education.

Our government is continuing to invest in education year after year. In light of Trump

tariffs and a desperate economic time that we are facing, our government protected

education. We protected core funding, and we are going to continue to do that.

Affordable Housing for

Indigenous Persons

Á’a :líya Warbus : AHMA, the Aboriginal Housing Management Association, desperately needs funds to renovate

a number of vacant units that could house low-income Indigenous people. With just

$1 million they’ve been asking for to keep pace with the dire affordability crisis

that we are in, countless families could be supported.

We all know that Indigenous people that are unhoused and left to fend for themselves

in these risky situations, overcrowded housing…. They become homeless. We know where

the statistics take us from there.

Why is this government cutting supports for our most vulnerable people in a time when

what we need to do is wrap around support and find the money and find the housing

and support the important work of the Aboriginal Housing Management Association to

do the work that they need to do?

Hon. Ravi Kahlon : I thank the member for the question.

The member surely knows that we have made the largest investment in the history of

this province for Indigenous housing. We’re the only province in the entire country

that is investing directly into Indigenous housing both on and off reserve.

[10:55 a.m.]

That only started when we formed government. This was not something that happened

in British Columbia prior to us coming into government.

We continue to support AHMA with historic levels of dollars. In fact, just last year

we provided them dollars to do the retrofitting, to fix up units that needed to be

repaired so we could get more people in.

Every month we are seeing new Indigenous housing units opening up. In fact, in the

member’s community, the member will know — if not, I’m happy to share the information

with the member — we’re opening up housing on reserve for Indigenous communities.

Interjection.

The Speaker : Member, just wait for your supplemental, please.

Hon. Ravi Kahlon : Perhaps the member and I can sit down, and I can share with the member the investments

we’re making, where those units are. In fact, we’re being lauded across the country,

and other provinces are being lobbied to in fact take the steps we’re taking to continue

to support Indigenous housing. I’m happy to sit down with the member to show the member

where the investments are going and how we’re supporting communities.

Budget Provisions and Revenues

Peter Milobar : What we’ve heard here today is clearly a government that has absolutely no plan on

a budget document that is less than a month old.

You know, the budget did not contain election promises like the seniors bus passes;

the grocery rebate, at $1,000 a household; the K-to-3 teaching assistants. We heard

the Education Minister talking about that. Well, the teachers union said: “At best,

it meets contractual obligations in the budget this year.” No new spending for education

in this year’s budget.

Instead, we have a reluctance to fund things like Angel Flight from this government;

rapattack crews into small communities that are surrounded by forests with wildfire

threats and a long distance away from the hubs of the B.C. Wildfire Service; Road

Rescue, again doing critical work, not being properly funded; small municipalities

not seeing any infrastructure help from this government; school programs being cut

under the watch of this government.

What does this government do? They cut $2.8 billion out of their budget last night

in revenue and refuse to tell the public in the middle of budget estimates what substantive

cuts will or will not be happening in their budget.

Well, they did tell us one thing will be cut. Low-income households can expect to

lose their climate action tax credit in addition to the grocery rebate this government

won’t deliver on. They have no problem cutting programs, it seems, when it impacts

low-income households — 65 percent of B.C. households, by the way — but they won’t

tell us what they’re going to cut with the other $1.8 billion.

Again to the Premier and the government, when will this government provide a detailed

costing of what cuts we can expect and where of the $1.8 billion of missing revenue

that they created with their bill last night?

Hon. Brenda Bailey : What we’ve witnessed this morning really was a phenomenal display of hypocrisy.

This leader of the opposition was part of a government that cut programs and services

to people in all of the areas you identified this morning — all of them, all of these

areas.

Interjections.

The Speaker : Members.

Hon. Brenda Bailey : Every single one of them.

Interjections.

The Speaker : Members, come to….

Hon. Brenda Bailey : Every single one of them.

Interjections.

[The Speaker rose.]

The Speaker : Members, come to order. No argument with the Chair, please.

[The Speaker resumed their seat.]

Hon. Brenda Bailey : We are facing unprecedented times. We were bringing out this budget at the same time

that we were experiencing threats from the south that are unprecedented. The budget

literally came out the same day as the tariffs came out.

Interjections.

The Speaker : Members.

Hon. Brenda Bailey : This is a very important moment in time where we are absolutely shoring up protections

for people. We are protecting core services. We are….

Interjection.

The Speaker : Member.

Minister, I don’t think….

Interjections.

The Speaker : Minister, please conclude.

Hon. Brenda Bailey : We are protecting services for people while we’re doing core reviews to ensure that

every dollar is landing where it should.

[11:00 a.m.]

We’ve created a $4 billion contingency fund so that we can respond to the initial

impact of tariffs. We are standing up for British Columbians, standing against what’s

happening down south, and we are protecting people every step of the way.

[End of question period.]

Hon. Bowinn Ma : I seek leave to make an introduction.

Leave granted.

Introductions by Members

Hon. Bowinn Ma : Thank you so much to the House.

I saw him enter and then exit the chamber again. I want to welcome back to the Legislature

Justin McElroy, who just came back from his one-year trip all the way around the world,

52 countries in 52 weeks.

I know that the member for Kelowna-Mission referred to our shared experience in student

politics along with the Minister of Indigenous Relations and Reconciliation. Well,

Justin McElroy of the CBC News was there to cover all of us as editor of the Ubyssey at the time, so it’s a little bit of a reunion right now.

Would the House please join me in welcoming Justin back to the Legislature.

[11:05 a.m.]

Orders of the Day

Hon. Mike Farnworth : In this chamber, I call the estimates for the Ministry of Infrastructure, to be followed

by the estimates for the Ministry of Health.

The House in Committee,

Section B.

The committee met at 11:06 a.m.

[Mable Elmore in the chair.]

Committee of Supply

Estimates: Ministry of Infrastructure

(continued)

The Chair : I call Committee of Supply,

Section B, to order and recognize the minister.

Hon. Bowinn Ma : Thank you, and good morning, Chair. It feels like just this morning that I last saw

all of you here.

On Vote 37 ministry operations, $55,332,000 (continued) .

Misty Van Popta : I’d like to thank my colleagues for yesterday, for kind of helping me limp along

as I started to fade into the wee hours of the night, and to thank everybody’s collective

work on that.

Although I have 11 more questions, I’d like to turn the floor over to two members

to ask some follow-up questions from yesterday. First, I will send the floor over

to the member for Surrey-Cloverdale.

Elenore Sturko : Good morning. Thanks to all the ministry staff for your hard work. Great to be back

after such a short time and see so many friendly faces again.

I’d like to ask a couple of questions about schools, if I can. It’s well known that

Surrey is behind in school infrastructure. That’s something that was just discussed,

quite passionately I think, in question period.

The previous year SD 36 had requested a little more than $5 billion in school infrastructure.

We know that we are behind substantially in Surrey, with more than 300 portables.

I’ve spoken to this previously in our throne speeches and in our budget responses,

that really we need to have a transformation in the way that we’re dealing with accommodating

so many students.

Surrey is soon to be the largest community in British Columbia. We’re only 50,000

people behind Vancouver. We’re growing by leaps and bounds. I think it’s a classroom

full of kids born every week in Surrey. Adding one or two schools a year isn’t going

to catch up. We’re in a situation we’re just…. Announcing new schools isn’t going

to catch up.

[11:10 a.m.]

To the minister, can she please speak a little bit to how the government understands

the nature of the shortfall and if they have a plan to catch up on this shortfall,

particularly in light of the exponential growth that’s expected in Cloverdale and

other communities that are in Surrey along the SkyTrain line.

Hon. Bowinn Ma : I will give a first response. If I don’t quite hit all of the questions, because

I’ve now forgotten part of the questions, I will allow the member to provide follow-up

questions as well.

The member is absolutely right that Surrey has been growing in population at an enormous

pace. Surrey’s student population has grown by 11,500 students since 2017, and of

those, about 7,600 were in the last five years alone. It has been drastically accelerating.

We are seeing, however, signs that student population growth in Surrey is moderating.

For instance, in the 2022-23 school year, we saw an enrolment growth of just under

2,500. In ’23-24, we saw that jump to an additional 3,350 students, around there.

[11:15 a.m.]

Then in the ’24-25 school year, the enrolment growth was just under 1,500, which is

a drop of more than half from the year before. So we are seeing student enrolment

growth start to level out, and that’s good news. It allows for the school district

to work with the province on catching up on some of those infrastructure deficits.

We currently, in the Surrey school district, have completed 31 projects in the time

of our government alone. An additional ten projects are under construction, six additional

projects under design development and three more projects after that in business case

development. That is an additional 19 projects underway with 31 complete, and there

is more to do.

Elenore Sturko : I thank the minister for that and the staff for that information.

That’s a respectable number of projects completed, but we still know that it isn’t

enough, particularly because many of the projects include additions where that doesn’t

increase things like labs, gym spaces, libraries and other kinds of things that make

that kind of holistic education picture for kids.

I would encourage the minister…. I actually found it quite encouraging to see that

these types of projects were moved to an Infrastructure Ministry to try and hammer

through, hopefully, some good stuff for Surrey and Surrey-Cloverdale. I would hope

that this would also signal a shift in looking at a way of transforming how we respond

to the crisis that we have.

Maybe looking for other models of schools, other types of buildings that could be

used, commercial buildings, whatever it takes to make sure that kids aren’t just getting

one day, one hour of gym a week because the school is so overcrowded.

I’m going to move away from schools to talk about the Cloverdale hospital and cancer

centre. This is something that we actually heard a lot about prior to the groundbreaking.

I’ve probably rattled on about this a few times, how the project was already $1 billion

over budget and years behind

schedule before breaking ground. There were frequent

media updates, press conferences, even a photo op with equipment trucked in just for

the photo op and then trucked away. But now we haven’t heard much of an update.

One of the things that I have heard directly from boots on the ground is that the

project has struck a saltwater aquifer and that there are complications with this

project. My question to the minister is: can you please explain to the people of Surrey

what types of challenges this project has encountered as a result of building on a

saltwater aquifer? Are there going to be cost implications? Are there design changes?

Will there be any delays as a result of this situation?

I’m really hoping that the government will at this point provide some transparency

into the situation because, like I said, we were getting really frequent announcements,

and now that there seems to be a challenge here with our community’s new hospital,

we haven’t heard a lot.

Please provide an update on that.

[11:20 a.m.]

Hon. Bowinn Ma : Thank you to the member for the question.

The project did run into some geotechnical issues very early on. As soon as they went

into the ground, they realized the geotechnical conditions were not as they had originally

anticipated — far more clay and certainly water table issues.

The contract is being delivered by Ellis Don under a design-build contract. When the

member asked whether or not there were design changes, under a design-build contract,

the contractor will constantly be working with the owner’s representative — in this

case, it would be Fraser Health — on designing and constructing, basically simultaneously.

There will be design changes to accommodate the risks and challenges that they face

— particularly, in this case, in a geotechnical situation.

Over several months, Ellis Don worked with the Fraser Health Authority very, very

closely to tackle this problem. They brought in engineers from not only across Canada

but from other parts of the world as well, because it was an extremely challenging

geotechnical site condition.

Through their collaborative work, they were able to come up with a very innovative

engineering design solution, which has been implemented. They’re using a D-wall, which

basically provides a concrete barrier separation around the entire site of the project

to isolate the project from the soil conditions outside of the project. That work

is complete now, and they’ve completed the bulk excavation.

If my memory serves me correctly, they have excavated about 250,000 cubic metres of

earth so far and have poured approximately 50,000 cubic metres of concrete, so the

concrete pours are occurring. Three tower cranes are installed, and substructure completion

is completing shortly as well.

In terms of the impact of that particular geotechnical situation on

schedule and budget,

we are not currently anticipating any impacts on the overall schedule. Any cost implications

would be managed within the existing approved budget envelope.

On site, they are running a 24-7 operation now. It is quite impressive. About 350

construction staff are on site daily. At the peak of construction, we’re anticipating

that about 1,500 construction workers will be on site every single day. Their run

rate right now, so the amount of work being done right now, is about $1 million a

day, and that will accelerate with time.

[11:25 a.m.]

I would actually love to offer the member and other members of the opposition in Surrey

a tour of the site. If the member is interested in that, we would be happy to facilitate

and arrange that so you can hear from our general contractor and from Fraser Health’s

project team, which work very collaboratively on site.

I think you’ll be pleased by the progress.

Elenore Sturko : Thanks for that. Just a couple follow-ups here within one question.

I would love to take a tour. I think it would be very interesting, particularly given

the scope of the challenges with the aquifer that was there. I’m interested to see

how that was overcome.

The questions really are…. The increased cost to having to put this concrete barrier

around the entire site — it’s going to be expensive because concrete is expensive.

There’s a shortage. Those costs are being managed within the parcel of the project,

so what can the public expect in terms of what is being altered, then, within the

project to accommodate for these costs?

Furthermore, this sounds really interesting because it is sort of innovative, and

I’m just wondering, then, why is it that it was kept away from the public? Why haven’t

there been any updates? If Fraser Health was doing this incredible work of working

with international teams to overcome what would be an engineering challenge probably

not commonly faced here in B.C., why would the government hide this?

Hon. Bowinn Ma : The contract is being built under a design-build contract. It is a fixed-price contract.

Fixed-price contracts are desirable for project owners largely because they require

that the builder actually take on the risk for a lot of the unknowns, including a

large part of the site condition unknowns.

That being said, if the general contractor determines that a claim needs to be made,

that would be assessed through their partnership with Fraser Health. Change order

claims are very common in construction projects. They are usually assessed against

the contract, whatever it might actually be, above and beyond what they had originally

agreed to as absorbing the risk. Then that assessment will be done with Fraser Health,

and it would be paid for out of contingencies in that case.

We don’t anticipate any other scope changes. The fixed-price contract is the fixed-price

contract.

To the member’s comment that this is very interesting, and maybe we should talk about

it more, I totally agree. I completely agree. We just released a video actually highlighting

a recent tour with a little bit of this information, but not a lot of this information,

I welcome the member of the opposition’s suggestions and feedback on how we get more

of this information out. I think, largely, government has been really focused on just

doing the project and delivering it. Maybe we haven’t been talking about it quite

as much.

[11:30 a.m.]

Looking forward to arranging the tour for the member and her colleagues. We’re also

happy to not make this just a one-time thing. Perhaps as the project progresses, we

can continue to bring and offer members site tours. It is an exciting project, and

we hope that the entire community and the entire House will be able to be proud of

it, because it is being supported by taxpayers across the province.

Misty Van Popta : I’d like to turn the floor over to the member for North Island for a follow-up question

from yesterday.

Anna Kindy : During the campaign, there was a promise made to rebuild Cedar School. It’s a 63-year-old

school from kindergarten to grade 5. The kitchen is a converted change room, and compared

to other schools in the province, it’s rated very poor. From a rating of 0.61 to 1,

it’s got a rating of 0.68, which is kind of one of the worst in the province.

The other thing about this school is it’s got a high Indigenous population, and the

counselling service actually takes place in a converted change room. There’s an opportunity

here, in the spirit of inclusion and reconciliation, to create a space that honours

and reflects cultures and ways of learning for our Indigenous peoples.

This is going to be a two-fold question because the minister mentioned that…. We did

have a fire, a very unfortunate fire at Carihi Secondary School. But I’m new to this,

and I was wondering, first of all, is the fire covered by insurance, and if it’s covered

by insurance, then the cost would be taken care of, I imagine, by the insurance company.

Can we expect the minister to reconsider the decision here? It is rated as one of

the poorest schools in the province, and it does serve the Indigenous population.

[11:35 a.m.]

Hon. Bowinn Ma : I want to thank the member for her passion and advocacy for Cedar Hill elementary.

I really benefited from hearing from the member on just the layers and the colours

of how important the Cedar Hill elementary school project is to her, her community,

Indigenous people and the surrounding areas.

We do agree that it is important, which is why the Premier made the campaign commitment

for Cedar Hill elementary school. We do look forward to moving forward on all of our

campaign commitments within the four-year mandate.

Since the campaign commitment was made, the fire at Carihi occurred. Given the impact

to an existing school, it was necessary to prioritize Carihi in terms of the capital

projects that the school district needed to undertake.

In terms of the member’s question around insurance, schools are not eligible for private

insurance. We, as government, have a self-insurance model. We take on risk through

a self-insurance model, the risk management branch of Ministry of Finance.

I know that the member is new to the House. It sounds like she might be having difficulty

hearing me. As a tip, there’s actually a hearing aid device within your desk — pardon

me, every desk — that can be plugged into the audio jack at the front of the table,

and it actually connects every member directly to the audio system, in case that helps

in the future. I’ll repeat myself for the member’s benefit now.

Schools are not eligible for the private insurance market, so they are self-insured

through a self-insurance risk model. It effectively means that for certain types of

projects, of which this type of project…. The Carihi fire renovation replacement will

have to go through a business case development for the project to scope it out. But

it does require funding through the Ministry of Infrastructure to occur.

Anna Kindy : Thank you for that answer.

Just a question, for my own sake, in terms of the insurance model, because I need

to understand. There is a pool of moneys. So again, a twofold question here.

With the Cedar School rating as 0.68 and knowing that we service a large population

of First Nations at risk, how do you rate or how do you prioritize schools in terms

of…? Can we expect this to happen in the near future?

Second, I still don’t quite understand the insurance model. For example, if a hospital

is built…. We’re looking at billions of dollars, and fires do happen. I’m assuming

that the government, being fiscally responsible, would have some sort of insurance.

I know you’re saying it’s not a private insurance, but I’m not quite sure how that

works. If you can explain it to me a little bit better.

So the twofold question is: where are we in terms of on the list for Cedar School,

and can we expect something in the near future? Second, I just need a bit more understanding

of your insurance model.

[11:40 a.m.]

Hon. Bowinn Ma : I want to apologize to the member and to the community. I referred to Cedar Elementary

as Cedar Hill Elementary, which is incorrect. It just slipped out. Many schools lodged

in my brain here.

The self-insurance model….

Oh, sorry, I’m going to start with the member’s other question. Every school district

submits a five-year capital priorities plan, and that is updated annually. Cedar Elementary

remains at the top of the school district’s list of priorities, and we will continue

to work with the school district on delivering their priorities over time. The next

opportunity for us to review those priorities for the next budget will be as part

of Budget 2026-27.

As the member will know, the three-year fiscal plan is updated annually. Cedar Elementary

was not included in the current fiscal plan. However, that does not preclude them

from being included in future fiscal plans. In this current fiscal plan, we prioritized

the Carihi.

In terms of the self-insurance model…. In general, a self-insurance model means that

government takes responsibility to cover costs of all damages. And any of these major

projects…. If there are multiple damages across the province, government also takes

responsibility for prioritizing those damages across the provincial portfolio.

For more details on how the self-insurance model works, I will have to refer the member

to the Ministry of Finance estimates. It is actually a Ministry of Finance policy

program that the Ministry of Infrastructure is obliged to be a part of.

The member had mentioned hospitals and what happens if government builds a new hospital….

They are very expensive. The Surrey hospital and cancer centre is $2.88 billion. What

happens if there’s a fire there?

It is worth noting that all new hospital projects are actually built to a post-disaster

standard, and so they will be among the most, if not the most, resilient buildings

in a community if a disaster occurs. That’s intentional, because hospitals need to

remain standing, and they are able to serve as those community lifelines. Their standard

of build is very high, which is also part of the reason why it costs a lot to build

them.

Misty Van Popta : To respect the time of the House, I would like to acknowledge that I’m just going

to ask one last question, and anything else that I have I’ll submit in questions to

the minister.

So just one final follow-up to the same line of questions regarding the Carihi and

Cedar Elementary. Carihi fire was a portion of the school — it was the gymnasium,

is my understanding — and we had an announcement a few weeks ago prior to the budget

release that Hazel Trembath Elementary School in Coquitlam, which was a total writeoff,

was not initially in the budget but was found to have been funded at the last minute.

[11:45 a.m.]

I’m wondering if the minister can speak to why a renovation to a portion of a school

couldn’t be funded under that same kind of requirement as Hazel Trembath instead of

at the expense of a direly needed elementary school within Campbell River. Knowing

that we had funds to replace a full school, why couldn’t a gymnasium be replaced under

the same parameters instead of lowering the priority of a desperately needed elementary

school?

Hon. Bowinn Ma : I’d like to correct for the record. All three schools that were lost, damaged due

to fire — Hazel Trembath, Amy Woodland and Carihi Secondary School — were in the budget.

During the process of releasing a budget, there is a rather lengthy process. The budget

is tabled in the House. There is a lockup where detailed questions are answered by

staff on the same day. Then over the next several days and even weeks, more information

about various aspects of the budget are released.

The news reports regarding the lack of funding for Hazel Trembath School came about

as a result of a deficit of information at that time, because in the normal course

of releasing budget information, we were not actually scheduled to release information

about the details of what schools were funded until a bit later. But given the incredible

interest in Hazel Trembath, we did end up deciding to provide that information early.

But all three schools were approved as part of the original budget. Hazel Trembath

was not added last minute.

Misty Van Popta : As a follow-up…. Sorry, there was a third school that was mentioned. I was wondering

if the minister could then tell me, in all three of those jurisdictions, what schools

that were first in priority to be either built or upgraded were put lower on the priority

list in exchange for replacing schools that were damaged by fire.

Hon. Bowinn Ma : The loss of a school by fire is devastating to a community, and government made the

decision that all of the fire-affected schools in the province would take precedence.

The Chair : Hearing no further questions, I will now call Vote 37.

Vote 37: ministry operations, $55,332,000 — approved.

Hon. Bowinn Ma : I move that the committee rise and report resolution and completion and ask leave

to sit again.

Motion approved.

The committee rose at 11:50 a.m.

The House resumed at 11:51 a.m.

[The Speaker in the chair.]

Mable Elmore : Committee of Supply,

Section B, reports resolution and completion of the estimates

of the Ministry of Infrastructure and asks leave to sit again.

Leave granted.

Hon. Lisa Beare moved adjournment of the House.

Motion approved.

The Speaker : This House stands adjourned until 1:30 p.m. today.

The House adjourned at 11:51 a.m.