Volume XLI Monday Province of Newfoundland FORTY -FIRST GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEWFOUNDLAND First Session VERBATIM REPORT {Hansard) Speaker: Honourable Thomas Lush Number 2 29 May 1989

' The House met at 2:00 p.m . MR. SPEAKER (Lush): Order, please! We have a visitor in the the Speaker's Gallery, Mr. W. J. Chafe, a res ldent of St. John' l>. Mr. Chafe was Chief Dispatcher wl th the Newfoundl and Ra.ll way and later the CN Railway. He is the author of I'~e Been Working On The Railway, a song that has made Ul> dl1 happy fr·om t'lu lt:?. to t:.i.m~. M1n . Chafe is 93 year•s young. On bE!haJ.f of a 11. m~<:Hnber ·s, I IJJould like to weJ.come hinr to the GalJ.er·y today. S OMf ~ liON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear ! MR.

SPEAKeR: Also, WE~ would like l:o welcotne a delegation from the Council of Wabush in the persons of t.he Mayor, Mr. Bill Kelly, Councillor J irn Skinner, and Town Manager Keith Warren. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hE:~ar! MR . SPEAKER: Also, we would like to wel co tne som e students. We have twenty-five Grade III s tudentl> with four chaperon s and their teacht:!t ', Yvonne D~we, fr'om Vcl te r·~ Elelllentar· y her·e in s·t. John Is . SOM E liON . MEMB ERS: II e a r· , h t1 <'H' ! MR .

SP t::AKfR : We would also like to welcome twE:HltY-· ·E!lghl: cadeb; 11.d.th HH,~ ir· leader·s Bob Gr'E!(->.ne, Madonna Roberts and TI"Udy Taylor, Fy·om Gunners Cove. SOME HON . MEMBERS : Hear, hear! L48 May 29, 1989 Vol XI...I Statements by Ministers MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance. DR. KITCHEN: Mr·. Speaker, on behalf of the Premier and this gover·nment, it is rny pleasure to announcE! that the Province has successfully cornpl.e [-:(:1cl negoti.c:J.l:. i.ons for a public offering of debentures in l:h~<: 1 Unlb,~d ~l.:dl:t~s capi.lal tfldl"ket.

The->. lssur.:! i.s For c\tl amount: of $150 mi 11 ion i t1 U rd. t E! d S t a tc:1 s dol 1 a r· s b e a i" i. n <::~ i. n 1·: e ;·· (~ ~; t a l.: t: h e r· •-~ t: ~~ o f 9 per· cent and priCE!d at 99 and 1/8 of I~ hE! pr· Lnc Lp<.>1.l c:unoun t: to y j.(d.d 9. 09 per cent. This, r·1r. Sp~<:~aker, represents the lowest lnterest rate thE! Province has pa:id for a long term issue in either the Canadian or United States rnar k E•t s since 1973. The debentures will be dat .ed June 1, 1989 and w:i11 mature June 1, 2019, IAlith the bondhold ers hauing an early redetnptlon opt ion on June 1, 2004.

The issue is managed by Merrill Lynch Capital Markets, Salomon Brothers Incorporated, RBC Dowin i.on !)ecur·ll.: i.es Cor·por·at.ion and ScotiaM cLeod (USA) Incor·por·atE!d . Pr·oce eds fro w the borrowing will be used for gen eral p r·ov .inc i.al pur·po s e l> and to refund a ruatur·ing U.S . dollar debt issucL l dill plc O!<:lsc,~d l:u sl:i.'tb'!, Mr. Speaker ·, that the issue Wcl s IHH 'Y tAit:d.l r·uc(dV t:!d by the ..in vestrtJIO! nt comr11unl ty and saw a lot of L n b ~ r· (! s t r r· oro Cl 1 a r g e n u rn be r· of the major insu r·ance, trust and p1-'!ns :ion funds ln the Unll: ed States.

Tht:~ officia1 sj.grrJng of l: he new i. s s u (;! IAd .ll. l. <'1 k e pl. ace j_ n N~<:'W Yor·k on June 1, 1989. SOME HON . MEMBERS: Hear, hear! No. 2 R48

MR. SPEAI<fR: The hon. the mernbe;" for· Gt'i:l.nd Bank. MR. MATTHfWS: Thank you V(H'Y 111Uch, Mr·. ~peab:!i"'. I would first of all like to thank the han. Ministel" for being so klnd as to Forwar·d a copy of hls statement to my office beforE:~ comlng to the House, and thal courtesy is certainly welcomed. It is very encour<.'l.ging I indeE:~d, to see the lowest interest rate since 1973, 9 per cent, in the United States llloney market, but I gUE!SS that begs the question, what rate would we have received if we had gone to Japan or Switzerland or some other money market.

As well, of course:~, ther·e:~ is a very compelling statement in the statE:~ment for me as a for·mer Minister of the pctst adndnistration. I think the i n t e r· e s t r L~ t e a n d l h H i n 1: (H' 1:~ s L shown in the debentur·es r·eflects a conf idenct::! i.n the hl~Y LhE! Provj neE~ 1 s affaii"S we1"e handled in the past. ::lOME liON . MEMBER~.) : Hear, he:~ar·! MR. MATTHEWS: Mr· . Speaker, it will be qu ite interest ing to see what happ ens in the next twelve to twenty-four 111on ths 11..1i.th the cr 'e d·i.t rating an d the interest rates on future bonds to be floa te d by the Provi nce. SOME HON .

MEMBERS : Hear, h~<~ar! Oral Questions MR. SPEAKF.R: The hon. the LeadE:H' of thE:~ Opposi.tlon . l. 4-9 May 29, 1989 Vol XLI SOME HON . MEMBERS : Hear·, hear! MR. RIDEOUT: Mr·. ~::lpei.ikE!I", u1y quc,~st'.i.on :i.s t.o thE! han . thE:1 Premier . The PremiEH' ·i.ndlcal :<:!d i.n th~~ Housr.:1 :i.n debate on Thursday that his admlnislration will not be interested in band-aid solutions -.i.n tr·ylng to solve thE! E!COnotnic problems that face Newfoundland and Labrador. Cc,~rtainly, while that is not an novel approach it is an noble appr·oach and we admire the government for taking that position.

In view of the pr·esent long-term crisis facing the fishery of Newfoundland and Labrador, Mr. Speaker, and in viE:!w of thE1 hor ·r·endous negal:.:ive impact on this Province, can thE! Pr'E!rrtiE!r t.el.l the Housl~ whd.l: pr·oposc::tls h.is administration have developed to date, have mctde lo the federal governme!nt, or· are about to make l:o th:.:1 Fedl~n.ll. govl:!t'rltnE!nt t.o lessen the E:1cortomic impact of the hor·r·endou:; fa i.l.t1r·e, long-ter ·m, that is facing the fishery in Newfoundl.ctnd and Labrador over the next five or six years? MR. SPEAKER: Th(:1 han. the Prerni<::1r. PREMIER WELLS: Mr.

SpeakE!t', ju$t befor'E! T. cHJSJJ.JE!r-· the qUE!stion, urith the House 1 s per·rnission, I IAJoul.d note that this is the first tirne a member on bc->.half of a gov<::H'rllTIE!nt has stood to answer a question in this House for near·ly a y<::1ar·, and I say to all members present that that will not happc->.n again. SOM E l-ION. ,'II!EMB E RS : Hear I hear·! · PREMIER WELLS: 'j\j ow:-Tocf~~ -al w:i t h !'hE! gOVIH 'rlllll-'!l"lt h<'\S No. 2 th~:1 question : 1-:akl,1tl st:E!pS. 1~49

We have had meetings with representatives of the federal gover·mnent. lrJe have been preparing a position. We are preparing to deal with the situation that we expect to arise, because everybody who rationally looks at it expects that late this year the Government of Canada will confirm the reduction. It is not definite yet:, thE:~Y have not made a decision, but we are not going to wait unl:il that decision is madr;:, and then be in a position 1.11herE:1 we do not haV\0! t i.uh:! to r~::,spond. Wr.:1 have ITIE:1t 1o~.d.th Mr.

CrosbiE:1 and other fsderal representat.ives and we have L>.~or·ked out an arrangement 1/J.i.th l:helll l:o wor·k co-oper·a1.:.i.,J~::1l.y. We must bea1" in mind that thE! fe:1dt;,ral goVE!r·nmt:,nl hds t.:h~::1 exclusive jur·isdict:ion in thE:~ tnc:lnageHIOnt of Ulr.:! fishtH'i.~::~s. They have had the responsibility for the f:isher·oies. ~'Jhether· lt was rnismnnagen1ent, bad management, poor manageme,nt, no rnanagewent, negligent management or just bad luck that caused the situation, it is a federal responsibility.

Fortunately this Province is not saddled with the financial consequences of being responsible for that bad management, so we have left the responsibility where it belongs to providE:! the funding to deal with it, w.ith the fedE!t'al government. Now, we have taken pr·elimi.nary stups to wor·k co-oper·aU.vely with the feder·al gover·nurent l::o wor·k out the best long-ter·fll solution. It is not g o i. n g L o s c;, r· v t! u n y bod y f o r· rn e 1-. o s t Cl r· t t h E! n e g o ·t:i a t i o n s t h r o u g h quest:. Lon and ar1st.11 ers 'in l:tH ·) !louse.

I have to wor·k dir·ect ly t~o.l .. i t. h 1.: h ~~ m· i. n i s t e r·:.; l n v o 1. IJ L"l d \:l n d not do :it in Cl pub 1 :i. c u.Ja y . But s u f f l c e l ·l: to ~; c1 y 1:. he l: h r·t.t s 1: {:hat we a r· e t. akin g :i. s t. o r· e cognizE! thE:' di1118n~don oi- the pt•obleHI and recognize that. no n1atter what, we s t: i. 11 h a v E! a 1 ,:u~ y r.:! p o r· t l. o n o f o u r· L50 May 29, 1989 Vol XLI people than we shoJld have dependent upon the fishery .

There is not enough coming out of the fishery, the fishery had not demons trated enough potential in the past to provide that, so we are as king the fe der al gover:nment to work with us to try and find long-term solutions, and that is the thrust that we will be taking . SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear·, h~~ar·! I"IIIR. RIDEOUT: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: The hon. l::ht:' Leader· of t: hE! Opposjtion. MR . RIDEOUT: ---------Mr·. Speaker·, thr.:~ fact of thE! matter is that in 1989 there was a 31,000 t.:on r'c-?.duction in 2J-1 ·3KL cod made available.

Everybody in this Province knows there will be a further 45,000 ton reduction probably recommended for 1990. That is 76,000 tons that is going to impact on thousands of people in hundrE!ds of communitiE!S . Now, I ask has the Premier·, on behalf of his administration, made any comm:i. tmE,nt to the fE!d(-?.ral gouernmE:Hlt to get involved in any national pr·ogr·am that 1night be developed, and must be dE:~veloped, to addr·ess th:i.s ln•:ljor· crisis? S0/1-11:: 1101\J. r"'Er!lBERS : Hedin, hE:~ar! MR.: SPEAKER: Tht-:~ hon. the Pr·em ·i.E:H' . PI~EMICR WELLS: ThE:~ answer· is sJrnplE:~ and I gi :we it:. ~.k, hdVt:!

ITldck~ .::~ comrni.lrnE,nt dnd we wi 11 bE:~ to~Jo r· king with thE! ft:!dC:H'al couun:i U :oe -- AN HON. MEMBER: No. 2 RSO

(Inaudible). PRGIIIER WELLS: If the n1B111bers want an anstAJC.;!r I I tAli 11 answer· . .r: f not I 1 IALi.l.l s i. t down. If they do not IJ.lant an cHlSl.Al<:i!t' I 1 w i.11 s L:: dot\.11'1. Now, i"'r . Speaker· I the simple ansWE!r' is we havt:~ met tAJi.th Mr. Cr·osb.i.el we have talked with Mr. Siddon, we have met with Mr. McKay dnd others, and we have pr·opos ed an approach . We have got, initially, a ver·y good responsE:~ fr·oru the federal government representatives. We have established a committee of the Newfoundland Cabinet consisting of the Minister of Fisheries (Mr.

Carter), the Minister of Development (Mr . Fur·ey), and myself, to be involved as a conmli ttee:~ to work with the feder·a l cornrnith!e. We wi.ll do that . We have proposed solutions for· thE-~ir· consider·ation. WE! IJ..Lill be proposing more, and we will p r· o p o s ~~ a rn e t h o d to d e a 1 IJ..li t h l t . That n1ethod is in the pr·ocess of being put i.nto op:.H'Cl t.lon . Yes, u.1e have taken sh1ps . MR. SPEAKER : The hon. the Lodder· oF the Oppos:i t:i on. r"'R. RIDE'OUT: M r· . S p (:~ '" k c:H' , <:l f i. n a l supplementary. Mr·.

Speah!r', o b v i o us 1. y the P r· emil-?. r· has c h o s E! n not to answer· the question . Lr:~t me-?. ask him this : ~~ho ls it, on behalf of the government of Newfoundland and Labrador, who will lead for the government of NeiJ..Jfoundland and Labrador· on this rnost impor·tant issue? Is it the Premier? Is it the Minister of Fisheries, or is it some other minister ? MR. SPE AKER : The hon. the PreruiE!r·. l.51 May 29, 1989 Vol XLI PREMIER WELLS: It is me, Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER : The member ' For· 31 :. fVlcn·y' s the Capes . MR. HEARN: r"'y qur::~Si.: i.ons f.\lSO at '(;! to the Premier.

The PJnemier· ITJE:HJtionE:'d I \.lJ~HH1 he l~o.k\S anstJJeri.ng the first question, that there are too many p~ople .invo1u(!d in the f·lsher·y. I ask him, is he advocaU.ng another· r·e set tl E:HnE! nt pr·ogr·am 1 i. k E:~ thE! first Liberal Premier we had in the Pr·ovince? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier . PREMIER WELLS : Mr·. Speaker·, tAlE! ar·e simply recognizing the fact, and our p t' e 1 i rn .i. n a r· y dis c us s ions IJ..d. t h the feder·al repr·esentatives indj .cate clearly that they recognize the fact that too great a pr·oportion of our · populal:i.on is ciE!pendE!I1t upon the fishery resources.

We have got to provi.de other a 1 t e r· n a t i v e s o u r· c e s of i n c orne f o r· oLw people, etnd tha t ls thE! fai 1 ure of the f orl'ller g ov er·nment t:hal: w::! :i.ntr:!nd to ~\ddr·r:~ss, Mr . Speaker. That :is what I arn s i:l y .i. n g • Fa c i. n g r· C! a 1 i t y . SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the uwrnber for St. · Mary's -the Capes. MR. HEARN : Mr. Spr::~dkor·. he could havE~ said 'burn your boats', which would have Sllillrrli.H ''.i.Lc-?.d . .it i.n tJ11"oe words.

The Pr·ernie:~r has SE:~t up a speci.dl cab·i.nc:!t connni ·tb:!E! to deal wi t h the p r· e s en t c r i s i s . I a s k I seriously: Would he consider No. 2 R51

..:.. setttng up <Hl all-pa.r·ty corrunittee of the House, wher·e we could have a greater· r·ange of experience, in dealing with the serious situation? MR. SPEAKER: The han. ~he Premier. PREMIER WELLS : If an all-par·ty committee wants to get together to discuss it, I have no basi.c objection . 8ut it i.s the committee of cabinet that will deal wl th the Gover·nment of Canada. SOME liON. MEMOERS : Hear·, hear! MR. SPEAKEr~ : The hon . the rnen1ber for· St. Mar·y 1 s · th!::~ Capes. MR.

HEARN: The Pr .eud .l:H' staf:c: ~d i.n dtt:;•..~Jer· to one of the or·iginal questions that he would be cha :lr·iny l:h!::~ sp~::~c i.dl conmri ttee, that he would be dealing with the pr·obletrr. liE! h also chair ·ing the three rrrHntber· committee he has set up, and I unde-rstand he is leading the way. I wonder lJ.Jhy he did not axe his Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Carter·) and save us som<:~ 1nore HJoney instead of axing a competent Deputy Minister of Fisheries? SOME HON . MEMBERS: Hear, hE:~ar! MR. SPEAKER: Is the han. Mar·y • s - the question? the lfH:~mbE!r' for· Capc~~s r·ep<:~aLlng St. his MR.

HEARN: -r-asi<E!cr Mr·. Speakc-'!r', go i.ng Lo hirtiS ·~ 1 f I he sr::!t: Minister· C h d i. r· ''' 11 t h t:! including the:~ up, 11.1hy do of Fisher·i<:~s? Pf~[MIER WEI. 1.~>: ----------L52 May 29, 19 B9 if hE~ is COIIIHI.i. i".: h::' e S rc:~cc:~nt one t\J(:~ n E! c~ cl d Vol XLI T h a t 'i s a no t h e r· q u e s t i o n , a n d I am happy E:Hlough to ansiiJer :it. That IIJas not the question that IIJas as ked befor•e. Mr·. Speaker·, the answer is fair·ly simple.

After discussion with thE• Minister of Fi.sher'.ies and the Minister of Development, we agreed that this matter was of such concern to the people of this Province, and in particular the fishermen of this Province and the peop ·le tuot•king in thE! fish plclnts of this Province, that we IIJant to givr.:~ it: the ~l'Lgh~ :!st possibl<:! prior·i ty. That is why the Pr<:~rniN· .i.:; i.nvolvec:l. SOMr HON. MEMBERS : IIC::~C\i", hGiH'!

PREMIER WELLS: U nl ike t: he r r· i. me M .l n l :i 1:: e r of the hon. rnen1ber' s party, who refuse s to gel: involved on behalf of Newfoundland and deal with the Foreign over fishing and give it the priori ties, we ar·e giving it the priority lt needs. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the member for Gi"and Falls. MR . SIMMS: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for 1ny fr·i ("! nd, Ulc! Minis bH' of For·estry and Agriculture . I wou]d llke the Minlst8r to advise the House, or· infor·m the HousE:~, of his g o v E! r· n 1r1 E! n t 1 s p l cl n s f o r· t h .i s y r:' d r· 1 s ae:~rial pl"ote ction progl"artJ .

Would the Mi. n i. s h~r·, 1..11he n ht::! cHlSlAJer· s thE! question, confil"l'll that thE• 1989 i. n f ·~ s L <.'! t:. .i. o n f (H' E! c d s L s h o tJ..J s a marked dr:~cline in the he:~rn1ock l.oop<:~r· pr·obl.t::~lft ·- b(;!cdus~:! of, i'5ltTtong o t h E! r· t h :i. n g s , a n e F f e c t i v E' a EH · i a J. pr·ob::~c l.: i.on pr'O'::Jr'dul uncl("t'l:.dkc,~n ·tn the past - and wouJ.d he, at thE! sam~:~ ti.lrtE!, conFi.r ·m !.:hat. only :1.,531 hectar·es at"e in tht~ I'IIOdtH'ai:E! to No. 2 RS2

severe category as opposed to 118,000 hec ;:ar·es .in 1983? Ind~::1ed, I understand the scientists pr'<-?.di.ct.t:!d a Lotc\1 col1ctpse of l:he hemlock loopE:H' infestation by next y (:~ i:lt' , 1 9 9 0 . r e r· h a p :> t h e m .i. n i. :> l:: e r· could address those points? MR. SP EAKER: The hon. thE:~ Minister· of For·r:1str·y . MR . FLTGHT : Thank you, Mr. Speaker· . I would havo preferred if the ulinister· - the hon. rnernb<-?.r would ask the var·.Lous q u t~stlons that he posed as supplernentari<-?.s and I could have dealL with each one. But, basically, the minister is right - thr:1 member·, I c:Hn sor-ry.

Force of habit dies hard, Mr. Speaker. After fifteen years standing up and asking thE! que s t ions . The S pea I< e r· will. h a v C:! to give me directions becauSE:1 I way well stand up one day, Sir·, and ask a question when inde:~ed I should be answering. -MR . SPEAKER: The-?. Speaker under·stands. MR . FL IGHT : nw hon . mumbor· i.:; bds i.cdlly r·lght.

I will be lnfor·n1ing the :I o u s H .L n l: he rw x 1: d d y or · so db o u t: tl1e gover·nment 1 s ini:E ~ntion IJ.d.th r· e g iH' d to an iHH' La 1 s f>r · d y p r· o g r· a 111 • 0 n h i s a s s €:1 r·ll o n s , I cHn no 1: c t-?. r· t d i n , thou y h , L h c"t l: 1: h t;;! collapse of thE:1 herulock looper· or· the:: loiAJE:'r' leVE!l of .i.nfes tal.i.on .is a direct r·E:~sult of the past spray programs . There is no ~uestion that the he:~mlock looper· infestCJ.t. ·ion i.s at a loW E!t' lE•vel thar1 it was last year·, or lower than it was the previous year .

But whet her or· not it is a d::i.rect result of · the spr·ay pr·ogr·am, I am not CE:1rtain of that, and I doubt ver ·y much if anyonE! else .is I lj 3 May 29, 1989 Vol XLI certain at this point in tim1. :1owever·, it is lower ·, and T. tell the member in due course I will be announc i.ng t-.:o the !·louse o·f AssernbJ.y thE:1 gover·nment 1 s pr·oposNi for·l~~,l~ pr·otr.:lci:i.on pr·ogr ·a1n for · th-.i.s year·, specifically agcdnst the hemlock looper·. MR. SIMMS: A suppleruentar·y, Ml" . Speaker· . MR . SPEAKER : The hon. Opposition House Leader . MR. SIMMS: Mr· .

SpE!aker·, accon:l.ing to somE! r·emarks made by the rrd.nish~r · ::in th~~ pr·t:!SS, hE! has man< 'l9('!d alr'E!ady, in just a few short weeks now, to alienate the papE!r' companiE!S in this Province, by his r·ernarks r'<'!C<-?.nt:ly ·in !:he IJ.JE~E!kE!nd papEH'. I arn wonder·ing if the rninistE!r wi11 be insisting on a very heavy-handed, dictator·ial approach, because he has already said publicly the Cabinet will dec i.de .

And I ctm I.J.Jonder·ing if this is a personal posi t::i.on of thE:1 rn i n J s b:H' , 1 on g he 1 d ? 0 r· 1.o~.li .ll he be taking the advice of the professional people, his own officials, the federal scientists d n d L h t! p r· o f E! •; :; i. on c'll for· E! s bH' s from thE:~ papE:1r companiE:1S, .

IAJhich, .i. n f d c L , p r.'li. cl l.:~.uo · 1: h i. r· <L of 1:: h (:! cost of this pclrtlcular program? ()nd Cdn h!O! conf i.l 'rtl fOI" l:hc:: !lOU SE ! and for the people of l:he P1"ov ::Lnu1 Lhal: hLs own off .Lcial s are rE:1comrnend:lng a $1.2 nrill"ion, 8,000 ~w c t.ar ·e pr ·oy r·.:;un du r· i ng ti"H'' cor ning year·, which would includE! iH'E: 'cl s of silv lcultura1ly tredted ar eas running from Castors Rive:1r to Ma in Br ·ook on the Nor ·t.ht.o~.JesbH'n c.u·ea of thE! Is land? SOME HON . MEMBERS : Hc.:~ar·, hE!ar·! MR. SPEAI<ER : No. 2 R53

ThE! h on . 1: hE! r.!l .i. n i s t e r· o f F o t· E! s t: r· y • t)R. i-L 1GHT: Mr. Speetker·, w:ith r·egar·ds to thli:~ s p e c i f i. c s o f t: h e a E! r· .i. a 1 s p r· a y FJr·ogr·arn, the nlinistE:~r w:ill haVE! to wa i t u n t i.l I , as M 1 n t s t e r· of Fore s t r· y , i s prepared to ann o u n c e to the hon. House the details of that program, and that will come very s h or· t 1 y . B u t I want to say this to the han. rnE:~mber·: He himself would be jealous, would be very FJY'oud of the relationship that I have developed ln two short weE:~ks with the paper companies. SOME IWN.

MF.M8F.:!~S: HE:~etr·, ~H>.ar· I MR. ri iCH T: 1 bclVt\ h~:~d di.scus~>Lons t.11ll :h t··.ho Vcll":i ous paper· compard es. ThE:!Y iH'e iill..lldt't! t.h~'lt the.i.t• COrJC(H'tlS <:~nd theJr· :idec.ts will get due cons .i. de r· a l:.i. on .

Any F on~ s 1: pt"otection pr·ogr·i::lru tc.tken on by 1":. h i. :; go v t~ r nrne n 1:, because of 1: h o fact that it :irupacts so gr·eat1y on the papE!t' COIIIpdtl i.t!S - bl-:!Ccli.ISt!, of c o u r· s e , they c o s t s h a r· e i t - the :i ,.. conc~~rns, the it ' i.dli:HH> u.dll. be addt"essE:~d, and no pr·ogr·aru wjll be announced without input being considered from the paper companies. But I ~hiVE\ to say to the minister that it is indE:~ed a fcl.ct that it is this Cabinet and governmE!nt that d12.cides what spray p r o g r· am o r· IAJ h a t f o r· e s t p r· o t e c 1:. i o n WE:~ will announCE! .

In as far as rny alienating the paper ' companies , no, l'-1t '. Speai<(H ', I have not attempted, nor wil l I, nor have I alienate d the paper cornp ctnies. As I said, the uli .ni.s ·ter · hiu1se l.f l..lloulcl be UtH'Y pr·oud of the r·E:!J ation ship that I am c.:h !! v t~ 1 o p .i. n 9 . r.IJR . TOiilN : Thf! 111~~n1bE:H'! L5 ll- M•iY 29, 1989 Vol XI...I r.IJR. F I_ .f. Gil r: The member hirnself. But, rt.li'' i:htH'IIIOt'E!' 1 uri.yht say that I i::llso have no desire to be known in t h i. s P r· o v .i. n c e a s Hw M i n i s t e r· for · Abitibi--Price . SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. SIMMS: Mr.

Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: ThE! hon. the Oppos i t:ion House Leader. MR. SH-1MS: A final supplE:'rllentar·y. ThE~ hon. url n i. s l:c:H' n e\ tH.i no 1.: l.o~Jo r· r· y about becowing known as the MinistE!Y ' of ~ b .i. 1: .i. b i. -P r· i. c lo! . II i. s b i. '::1 c h a l.l e n g (! is to becorue known as thE! M:inistE•i" 0 f F o t' ~~ :; Lt · y , U p h 0 l. d i. n 9 t: h E! J"esponsibi1tty of pi"Otri:~cting thi~ ~ Pt'OlJ .i.nce 1 :> I!IOS l.: ·.i.mpor·t,:'f.nt r·esourCE! . That is thE:' thing hE:' should bt~ wor-r- .il"!d about . 1\loiJJ, Mr·.

Speakli:H', ln v i.t~t..ll of thE! fact that theine is ev:idencE:1 that r· "=' c en t s p r' a y p r· o g r· am s .i. n t: hE:~ p ,;~. s t with both Bt and fenitrothion have obvi.ously proven to be effective because of r·esults; and in viE!W of the fa c t U1 <3. t the r e a r· e v 1::1 r y , v e r· y ser·ious concE:'rns, which we wiJ.l not go into r··i.ght no1..11, about. tAJOod supply shor·tagE:~s in the UE!lny nectJ" futur·e; and Ln v'il ,~IAI of t:hc~ fact that there is enough product on hand now to cover dbout 4,500 hr:'ctares of this spr'i.'lY progt"aJTI p r· o d u c l: o n h <:'! n d - · and t. o 9 o d n y other way would cost the taxpayers o f 1·-. h i. ~; P r· o v .i. n c t:! , u n n ~'! c E\ !:; s a r· 'i 1. y , in rny view, an addi U.onal $40,000 or· $!"i0,000 for· c:tdd i.t ..

Lonal. pr·oduct:, I IAJctnt to ask ·the nrinisi:co•r· one~:' d q i:l l. r·1 11.1.i. J l. 1·1 E! b t:! 1.: a k .. i. n y 1: h t! r.:t d v i. c l->. of his own officials ctnd p r· of e s s .i. o n a .l p E! o p 1 t:! l. · i. k l:' L l·1 ern , fr:1der·al sciE:Hl'l:ists and tht:! othet" No. 2 R r:i /1.

professional foresters who are involved in this issue, will he be taking the advi sE:1S of his own officials and w.ill he be indeed a c c ept:l ng the r·e c ormue ndu tion s that all of these profess lonal people ar ·E:1 putting forw etr·d? And . who is goiny to lake the 1Gad in this issue? WiJl it be the Pr·erniE:H ' or lAJi.l1 il. be l.:he rHnlsl :er · of ror·estr·y? I\1R. SPFAKfR: The r., .i. n .i. s 1··. lH' o F r or· e :; t:: r· y . MR . FLI GIIT: Mr· .

Speake r, the luem ber, as I stat:erl ea r·l.ier , t/Jill ha ve Lo Wc 3.l t until I am rea dy to n1al <e a decislon to anno un ce our fo rest pro tection pro gr am in this House of Asse wb ly. Most of th e que stions he has raise d w il l b e answ er·e d 1.1.1he n I make th0 Ministe rial St at ement ann ounc ing our program . MR. WINDSOR : Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: The han . the 1nembt!t ' for· Mount Pear ·l. MR . WIN DSOR : I •JJould 1l ke to ad dre:;s •:' ques l:.i.on to the Minister· of Cner·g y (Mr ·. G.i .I:Jbon:; ).

In v i.!:J•ll or t·.ht! i 1up or ·tanc~ and the mag n:i. tude of !:he .i.ltl p~·H tc:U.ng de velopu!E:H II: of l:ht::l L.o wel'' Chu r·dd.J.l hyd r·o -el e c tr·i c poten t;.i.c11 , •~JouJ.d the m .i.l'll:;h~ r· tell . t h~ l·Jou s ~: what irnp or·ta n c e and wh at pr ·.i.or· i. i:y he .i.::> pu i: I: i.n g on 'l:h i.s pr·oj ect, and what meas ur·es he has ta ken to 111ove these neyo liatio n:> al o n g ?

I !:i t h e i n t e r· t i e to t h e Island sti11 t1 n essentia l co mp one nt of the negotia tions that ar·e takin g p lace ? l-Ias h1::1 autho rized a nego tiati on committee to co ntinue wit h these r•ego tiati ons to &JJctr'd s r•ea ch ing cHI 1 .. 55 May 29, 1989 Vol XLT agreement with Quebec? MR. SPEAKER: rhe hon. the Mlni.sler of Mines and Energy . MR. GIBBONS : rk . !"') p e:1 a kr:H· , [ ,;~ rn p leu s 1::11~ to say to the member· for· Mount Pear·l, the fot 'I(IE!t' r·-Uni.~; ·l:<oH ' of FrHH'gy, tha t ·i.t is our intention to continue to :;eek drl i.HTatl'::jE!IIIE!I'lt 1.11i.Lh thE!

Pr·ovince of Quebec. Personally I hdve I:H.;!C:Hl br · i.E!f<::H:I on UH:! rndtl ::E!t ' over the last few days and we will bt! follow i.ny up on l:ha t. in due cour·s e. MR . WINDSOR : f) :;upp l(;!lrH' !tlCdt'.Y I rk. Sp~ :!aker. MR . SPEAKER : The hon . the member for Mount Pear·l. MR. WINDSOR: ------Mr. Speaker, I am delighted to hear' th(~1 Hlinister· is putting such importance on these negotiations. Would he, therefore, tell the House why the meeting that was scheduled for last week was cancelled? Was it cancelled because ht~1 had d i.r·~~C t i.OI'lS rt'OI(I thE! Premier to do so?

Was it Ci:Hlce:1lled by Lhe GoVE !t'nHlent of Quebec becau se of the fact that t:hr::! rf·enl LE!t' he:\: ) .:ll .i.E!l'l.:-1 l:ed thE! GovN·nrnE:Hit. of Qu ebec? Wus t.h:i.s l:h(;! i''l;!i :lSOJ'l l":hdi : l:hat l'll~ :!(;!l: i.ng IAidS c i.HI c (~ 11 E:H:l ? I s that thE! p , .. :i o , .. i t y ? SOME HON. MfMRERS : lle.n ·, hE!ar ·! MR . SPE AK ER: Thc:! hon . the Mini shH' of Mine s and F.nery y. MR . GIBB ONS: Mr· . Speaker, h.>~d dtT.!lnged QuebE:1C was No. 2 the meeting that I with thE! Minister· .i.n arranged before th e f~ 55

~ .1:- H o u s e wa s c a 1 J e d for· 1 as t r~u1rsda:y, .:'lnd .i. 1·. tJ.JclS •:\ ultH:~ l:.i.n~ Lo be C\ cour·tesy visit by rue -l:o visit h i.1n, ·i.ntr·oduCE! rny!>t~1f, and U. tJJd:i not to be Cl nego ·tlattng session as stJch. That .i.s le:~ft, r:~~; the hon. nteruber· knows, to the pr·ofessionals. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear·, hear! MR. WINDSOR: Mr·. Speaker. MR . SPEAKER: The~ hon . the membGr' for· Mount Pearl . MR. WINDSOR: I have never heard such s cop-out.

That was ctr1 ide:~al opportun i.l:.:y to ln('!G t: IJ.J.i.t:h tht-'! n1ir1ister·. l·IE:! waitE.~d until thE:~ Houst~ was opt:!tl, dnd hi.:; 1:~xcus~~ not.~ol ls thett the !lousE:~ is in session .:~nd he dot::! s no:: IJ.Ji:Hl i: Lo be diJ.k\Y. Js he go:i ng to wed t C\nother· fiv~:1 wet:!ks? VJhy, .i.nd(:H:!d, IJ.IOitlc:l hE! ccHltE:1l that 1ne~:~t:ing of last tJJ1:1 e k? (l HH~ <:1 :~ . .i. ny of L: ha 1-: n<:l tt.n· E:1 Js cd.tlca1. Why d:id hr:.~ wait two or· l:ht'(:!f! Llil:~ek:; b~:~for·e 1.-'!Ven go.i.ng to se:1c~ Mr·. Cic-~cciCI on having that trH:1eUng?

Who ls Lhe offi.c.i.al er1er·gy speaker· for the govenllnent? ls it UH~ r-HnistE!r' of Ener·gy or· is it the PI"(?.ITiiE:H'? Has he h.:~cl directions not to lfiE!<:d:: with Mr . Cictccia? MR. SPEAKEr~: The:;h~-ti-1E:1 MinistE~r· of Mim~s and ErHH'9Y. MR. GIBBONS : Mr· . ~)peakcr, as the hon. lfiE!irtbM · sety s, we will continue the rH:!g O l:.i.i:lt:Lon:> ·i.n clUE! cour ·se. r1y 111e etin g with thE:1 M:inistE:1r· of F::n E!t''d Y for · qlH:!b~~c IAidS r·(-;!al.ly only i:l c o u r· t E:1 s y c etll .

T h E:1 n~:1go1· .. i.di:.l.on~ ; ~~1.i.ll be dorJl'! by !.he appr·opr·:iat( ·! peoplE:1 and we t.~oJ :iJ] 1.56 r'kly 29, 1.989 Vol XI .. I look for cHI c\t't'i.HlC:JE!liHHl L. MR . TOB'CN: Mr·. SpeakEH'. MR . SPEAKER: The han. the member Placentia West. ti!L__JOBIN: appr·opria te for Bul"in I have a questlon for the Minister of Works, Services and T r· a p s p or tat i. o n . M r· . S pea k e r , t he previous government, through rHnul:e-of --Council 20ll-, or··d~:.~r'E!d that there be a contract for· two new vessels at the Marystown Shipyar·d to S<·:n·vice thE! pE:1ople of Sell T.sland. r·1r·.

Spc-?.akEH', IJ.Jhen the:1 work was ge:>tting slow at thE! Marystown ~h.lpyard anrl a greater emphasis put on the~ m·ed for· the f e r· r· j, t:! :> F o r· R e 1 J. I s 1 <:~ n d , d f u r· t h e r· MC, 308, or·der ·ed that both fE:HTiE:H~ b~ a dv i:\nc~Jd to ~;-L;;n·:: U\1:1 sc.uriE' time, wit h a letter of int<~nt !) .i. 1:1 n ~ d by l: he

I) e p 1 1 :: y f!J i. n · i. s b:! r· to the Marystown Shipyar·d to sta1··t Uw :; 1:1 hJJo v l;! s s 1:11 ~; . i'IJy qu~:1s t ion i::o l::h~) uri.n .i.s LE!t' "i:;: Why has he displayE:'cl such contempt f o r· 1·: h E! p t! o p 1 E! o F 3 e l l I s l a n d a n cl the employees of the Marystown Sh·i.py.u·d by t'E1sc :ind.ing or· r·eneging on the MC and not living up to the a g l"I:HWHHl t o F t h 1:'! p r· E! v i o u s governrnE!nt? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Mini ste r of Work s, Services and Transportation . MR.

GI LBERT : I can L:el l l~_ht-=! hon . lfi<:!Hli:H,t' tha ·t WE:', on this ~d de of the HousE:', ir1 govt:!t'rHnun: ~ .• hav1:1 our· OlAJrl aq(:•ndd dS lo hot~J tJJE~ plan to opor'i.'lte Lh~:! c:lr.;!par ·t·:men: -. and T ,.,.i .ll l.HL hi.1n I<I'IOlAI :in dtH ' COUJ"SE! . SOME HON. MFMBERS : r,Jo . 2 :~ 56

Hear·, hE:~ar! MR. TOBIN: Mr. Speaker, he~ue you ever· seen such arrogance displayed to the p e o p l e of B e l 1 I s l a n d IAJ h o rH?. e d a fer·r·y ser·vice? MR. SPF.:AKER: 0 r· de r· , p 1 e as e ! I ju:>t want to ask hon. nlt:110l?er·:; .i.f i.hey would wait until I r·ecogrrize r. h€!10. Th .i. :> ~~J.i.l.l b1:1 Fo r· HH ~ benHf:i t of IICinsar·d. Thr·ee or four· 10t1111b~r :> I'IC)I.Il hdVe CiHTied <HI wilhout rny t··ccog n)tion. So I ask for · l:hc~l-: t.:Oill''h i!:>y, pll:'!ase . The rneHiber· VUE:!St. MR. roBCl\J: for· Bur· ·L n I' 1 a c e n L i."' Ml".

Speaker·, now that the ministE:~r hc:J.S chspl.ayc-?.d such conl~:nnpt to thE! people of Bell Island who need the ferry service to say that hls agenda is not going to fulfill the commi bnent that IA.IdS nro!C:1dco1d, now that thE:! people of thE:! Mar·ystown ar~::1a, the shi.pyanl, ar·e haui.ng to leave the Pr·ovince to wor·k in thE:~ s hi.pyan:l in St. John, NE!IA.I Brunswick, and other people are unewployecl becdt.ISE! of thE! arrogance contempt of this l:1 o v co?. r· n IIH:HI 1: , c an l: h £:! r~ .i. n .i. ~; t:: ~£! r·· I~~£! 1. l us, Mr .

Speaker, whether it was h i. :; dec i. s i. on , l: h l:! de c .is i. on of t-:1-H:! p, .. ern:iE~r·, or· ·the decjsion of the C db ·i. 1'1 u L l: o r' t"! neg t! on out' p o s i. l.: .i. on and hi::~ue Newfoundlander·s UI'J('!tllploy,,:!d ... ,nd the p~:•opl.E! of :JclJ Js] drJd IAii.:d ting fOI" i:l fc:H'I"Y ~C-:!J"V:iCE'!? M R . ~3 P f: A !( r-: ~~ : The hon . the 1\hn::i.~~t.c->.r' of Wor·ks, Ser·1J i.CC:!S and Tr-anspcn·l:di.:l .on. MR. GT un:: RT : I IAJiJ.l tell the hon . the de cision was dE:1cision to pr·ou'idE:l L57 May 29, 1939 membE:1r· that 1nade, the thE! ferr·'iE~s VoJ.

XLT for Bell Island is there. We recogn1Le the fact that a commitment was made to provide one fer·ry, 1.1.Jhich IAJe have alr'E!ady given a contract for. As to thP second one , L t .i. s under' study and t. he commi truent was there -· MR. TOB1N: It was (inaudible). 1'-11~ . CJI .. BERT : I aru not bound by thE:l MCs of thE! pt'l:11J i.ou:> yovt·H'nlllerd : ~)orJtr: : HON. Mf.r-'1HEW3 : Oh,~-----MR. GILBERT : b11i · .. i.t : wi.ll bt~! will be making th~::1 COLI r• S t! . tht:!r't-:! 1 dnd WE! due d€'!C::i.sion in SO~E HON. MEMBERS: He,:u-, hE!dt'! MR. SPEAKER: The hon . the ITIE:Hnber· for Burin Placentia West.

MR. TOBIN: Mr. Speaker·, my final supplc,llrlentary to thE! JI1E:1JIIber', b<H•E:ld on what he has just said, is: llc::~ve thE!Y r·~::~scindE:~d the~! MC. Has the MC bE:H1n rE:1scindE!d, Ml". !'Jpeaker·, or· j u:; 1.: br.~s·i cal1y ignor'E:!d? Was the decision ruad~::~ by h i.111 o t' by L h 1:1 P r' c-:! 10 i.e r· , 1\k . SpE!etkE:H'? liE:~ tTJdY also i.HlSLIJE't" I j_n i: h .i. :; ~; 1.1 p pl.

C:!nl(! n 1:.<:) f' y, 1~1h c;! t h u r· t: h c:! gouer·nrnent pJans to havE:' d~'!SignE•d <:1nd con:>l-.i"Ucl:ed di: Uw r~dr'ystot~.m S h i p y a r· d a n 1::11AI :i. c e I:H· E! d k e I" t y p e r l:! r-· i" ':J S 1::1 t' V i. c; I·~ (: 0 ~; E! r' V (;! \:: h E! n,J~; .i.d~HJi:~; of Fo~o Tsl.dnd? MR. SPEAKEI~: The h on . the M i n :i s t e r· of W or· k s , ~'l E! r' v .i. c ~! s d n d T r' a n s p o r' t a. t i o n . MR. GILBERT: The hon. rnE:~rnber IAJill gel the No. 2 RS'7

cHJSWE:H'S to Clll those questions in dUt'! COlH'Sl!. SOME I'ION . MH'IH E R~ : llecu·, hecn·! MR. SPfAKER: The tn<:wri:Je:n· fot· liuwbr,:n· Eds l:. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear·, hE!dt'! MS VERGE: Mr. Speaker·, I" have a question for the Mintster· of r~uni.C'ipr::~1 and Pr·ovincial Affair·s. The position of Director of Cul tur·al Affiilirs, so vi tal l:o the cultur·al life of the Province, has bE!en vacclnt s Lnct~ tht~ c-:!nd of March. Is the gover·nment going to fill thE! pos -ition? lf so, hm.r.J i.s the position to be filled? Will the:1 Pub1.i.c SE!r·vi.ce Colflrrtission b1-) involved? When will :it be filled?

MR. !)PEt1KFR: ThE~ hon. the M:i.nistet" of l''lunicipal and rrovlnclal Aff~irs. r~R. GULLACf::: I wo u 1 d J l k e to thank the h on . nrembtn' for· he:n· que:> 1-. i.on. Yr:.~s, tAle do ·i.ntC:Hld t:o fJll thr.-:1 position of Director of CuJtural Affairs. I have had discussions with the:' people:~ of ruy depcu·trnent, par·ti cu lar· 1 y l n the Cu 1 t:t.tr'a 1 Affair·s arE!cl, that c.'l.long with the c o n s i d e r· a t l o n o f U1 E! ·i. n t E! g r· <::1 t i. o n of · the:~ var·ious dE~partnrents into the portfolio. We wtll be r· e a p p o i n t i n g a d i I" E:~ c t o r· i n d u e:~ COL!r'Se.

MR . ~3PFAKF.:R : ThE'! han . the rli(:HIIbE:!t" rOt" Hurnbel" E.:ts L. PJIS V E l~Gr:: : Mt' ·. SpE-!akr;;-r·, lkJ:ill the Mj nister· of t_•ia r'1.:lY ?.'1, 1.9H'J Vol ;{I_ l: Municipal and Provincial Affair·s COW>IIl.i : l:he o:H 'l: i.:> I~:> of t:he Pr·ovince, thr·ough the Provincial ()r· 1: l:; i.::> CcMl i, i:.i.on .~nd the gover·nment 1 s own Ar· ts Council, dbc)c.tl: th e job dl:'l :>cr· .i.p l::Lon of the Director· of Cul tur·al Plffair·s bef or·e the po :d 1: .i.<>n i. s ad vet ' l:i . sed? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the r-Hn i.s ten· of Mun i.cipdl and Provincial Affairs . MR. GULLAGE: rk.

Speaker·, I hdVE! alr·(~!cldy hi'id considerable discussion with the cn·ts and cul tur·al community about the focus of the:~ depi_,.rtment, the p h i l o s o p h y a n d t h e UH' u s -t IAJ E! d r· e going to take in thE! weeks and tnonths cthE!dd . I:n f<:lct, I~H'! will consult before appointing such a dJrector to that position. MR. SPEAKER: Thr;;1 han. the rnernbe:1r· for· Gr·een Bay. (l!lR. II :-:li,JL [TT: Mr'.

Spei:'!ker·, I note, with some d e y r· c-H:! o F i r: o n y , T :; 1.1 p p o s (;~ , f r· o 10 ruy old .nm11esis, The Sunday Express, H1d 1: 1-.1-w dd v ~n· Lis J ng f cw minister·s in a cour·tesy sor·t of way hds been cut back consider·Clbly, if not elinrinatE:~cl, b y the P t' ~:! 111 i (:! i'' . l would ask the Minister r e s p on s i b 1 e _ for· E n v i r o n111 EHJ t , i n l i. g h t o f UH'! p r· o b l c~~ lfl s l~ h a t t h E! r·ecycling company is into with r·egar·d to alulrli.rn.ttn Cc.HlS, tJJould not: money saued on advertisements in thE! n t-:!IAI spa p <-:! r· s , of a co u r· t.

E'! s y minister·ia1 natur·e, best bE:~ spent in pr·o1no l i.ng E!rlV ir·cHHnenL~l consciousness and th~;;~ picking up of cans and 1.: he r· <-?. c y c 1. j_ n g of l:: h l'! rn by Newfoundlclnder~? MR. SPEAKER : The Mi.n i.s l.:er· of F:nv ·i.r·onlllt:!nt and Lands. No. 2 R5H

MR. KELLAND: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am not sur·e if the trH?.tnber' s question was all that clear, which giues an indication that the quality of questions is at the sa.we leuel the quality of ans~Jer·s were in the pre uious a.drnlnistral::ion, bui : I wi.ll. do uty best to giue him some infor·rnation. The member· mc.y very IIJeJ 1 know that l:he bot:t :J.i.ny coutp<:HI.i.0:> haue u n de r· t a k en t he c o s t of t he r· e c y c 1. J n 9 pi' o y r cl rn tAl h 0 n 1: hey i:l t' ('~ talk :i ng Clbout a] uminurn Ci:l.rts i:l.nd p 1 ii :> 1: .i. c: b o 1.: 1.1. ~~ :; , b t.1 i: .i.

I: i. :;; cer·talnly wi thi r, the ~cope of this r:lepclt 'l:ftlf'Hil : to pr·esen'l: l:he i.d~)o:l:; oF r·ecyc] ing illnd i:l clean enuir·ortment t:o l:he publ . i.e, and .i.f dol.l.:~.r·:; c:an be found, :if :it seems to be u.Jor·thwh.i .le, we t . .lli .l.l cer·l:~d.nly c on s ide r· :i t . SOME HON. MEMBERS : llear, hea r! MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the ruernber· for Green Bay. MR. IIEWLETT: I a 1 s o a s k t h e m i·n i. s t e r a. q u e s 1: i. o n with regar·d to Corne By Chance. Has the mi.ni.ster· recently Htel: 1~Ji.l:h the municifJal officials in Corne:~ By Chance? SOME HON . MEMBERS: Oh, oh! M R .

B rt 10 ·: ~~ : J n the ncJr'fflaJ c:our·sE:! of affcd rs, Mr· . ;,pe<l bH·, l':h<~ .;l :; k i. ng of i:l ~u pp ler uentar· y quesi. :ion is supposad t () c:l f:) o:ll l.U i. 1: h nt.:\1.1 : E! t' S C

C) IH ~ rF ) d i. 1'1 the od gina] qu£-\s'l ~on to r·~)quir·e a li .tl:le fur ·l:her· i.nrot 'lllr:\: :i.on, d J.ittJ.(:~ 1uor·e fi:ld .. ual infor-ruatio n •!lbou l the or i.g i.fli:ll ansu.H:H'. Th i.s ls an ent:i. r·ely nev.1 question. I lJ.IOnder is i:hG 1nernb< ·H' ·~'JJ•:H'e of U1o:1.t ? l.S9 Me~y 29, 1989 Vol XLI MR. SIMMS: Mr . Spc-:!,:tker·, to the point of order, that really is a silly point of order to raise when there arE! only thrE=~e mtnutE!S left in QlJest.·i.on Per·Jod <Hld a rle\IJ lflelflber• is asking a question. He did not ask d suppl.(:~ntentar·y.

He stood dnd askE:~d a question of the:1 Minister· of Enu·lr·onment and Lc;~.nds a separ·ate question, which he :is pt!t'fE!Clly e:Hd:ii::l.~::!d i:o do, Mr· . SpeakE:~r, as you ar"e awar·e, and he doH:> no 1: rH>.<;!d pr·o,np L i.ng fr·orn t.:hE! hon. fiiE:Hnber· opposite. MR. SPEf.IKER: To l:haL poi.nl'. of or·d,;!l', tnost: gE!rl81"ally 1111hen a rii(~ITJbel" is a~; king quesLi.on~; l:he tllE!t\\I:Hn· does ask a supplement.clr·y, but t:her·e is nol'.h .i.ng i.n i:h{;! r·u1e:1:; of Lhe House which says that thE:~ ll'lli:!rttber· cannot ask another quesLLon to another rui ni s ter·. MR. HEWLETT: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. T ask the Minis t:er· r.-~spons :i.ble for EnvironmE!nt if hE! has met or· spoken r·ecently ~rith tnun:lclpal officials in the Corne By Chance area. with regard to the waste situation in that area? MR. SPEAKER: nw h ,;n-:- Ht H r.~ i. rd s 1~. c:! r· of Envi,~onment and LiHtds. Ml~. I<ELLANO ; I ~ nfon11 the ruentber· that I put ·!>On< :llly hd'J8 nor . tnl:'li : tAii ,Lh !~.he rnurt:i cipetl officials fr·orn Come P.y Ch<:Htc c; hot~JetJt::Ji', my d8p. :n· t men~ . is :in constant contc;tct with thE" :;.i.l:l.l i:ll..i.on.

W1;1 ar·e on top oF !:hE:~ sttua t:i.on ctrtd will tak~l UtE:! dppr'OPl "i.ab:J :;: :eps at l::hE ! appropri ~te time. MR. SPEAKER : The hon . L.h~:~ 11W1nber· for· Ki.lbr ·ide. No. 2 RS9

.. _.,._,• MR. R. tWLWA:W: Mr ·. Speaker·, I have a question for· 1: h e r'l l n :i. s 1: e r· o r ~'11.1 n i. r: i. p a l i.'l n d Pn)V:i ncial Affcd J"S - I believe it i. :) C <:1ll E! d 1'1 OIAI • Mr·. ~·ipr~aker·, i.n tJ.i.etJ.t oF Pr·ewler· 1 s pr·otnlse dur·ing elt'Jcl'..i.on campo:t i.gn to fairness and equity into 1:ht;! the br· i.ny the s p e n c:l'i. n g o F o u r· P r· o v i. n c e , a n d J.n the view of the shor·tness of construction season in our Pr·ovJ nee, Mr·.

Speaker·, and in view of the alflount oF p~~opl.E! who ar·~::~ H~eking employment oppor·tuni ties through the construction industry in our· Pr·ovincE:~, I ask the hon. min l s t e r· , M r . Speaker , w.i.l1 he imruediab:~ly honour the approvals given by the previous administration, under the legislative jurtsdtction whtch wer·e etllowed at thE:~ time, for municipal capi.tal. fund ·i.ng, tAthi.ch has been announced alr·eady? I\1R. SPF.AKfR: The han . the Mi n:i s tE:n· of Mu nj c ipal o:1nd Pr·ovinc i.,'ll. AFFa.i .r·~;. ~'IR . GULI_i)G[ : Mr·.

Spedln:H·, the hon. rmHuber· w:lJJ. knOIJ.I that i:h .i.s i.:> d ~OV< :H'l'llll(!rll: t;.t:i .th a n0.tAI ruandatE,~ . We c-.• lt'e de.:1l.i .ny ,,~.,it:h thc11'. lfliHJd,:ti ·.<:! i:Hld !'.he quesLi.ons hE:~ has asked t.o~l :ilJ be addr't::1Ssnd Foi"Lhcorn .i.ny i.n l·.hr::! nt'!IJ,J budget. MR. WINDSOR: A r· f:! you l~ota i. ~~ i. n g u n t. i.l. thE! constr·uction sc-:1ason is over·? MR . MATTHEWS: Yes, by Christmas . MR. SPEAKER: The hon. UtE:~ ITIC:'frtber· for· l<ilbr ·ide. MR . R. AY LWARD: Mt' .

S~H .~c:lker, a question to the hon . l.fiO r~a y 2 9 , i. 9 B 'J s upp leHtf'! n 1-.;,n· y rn:i ni s tE:1t'. !Jo 1 ;{ I.J f.Jtr·. !3pE!akt!t', L1-. i.s IAIE!ll knotJ.tn thd.t. lAte do not have a very long c o n :; t:r· u c 'i'. .i. o n s 1::=<:1 s o n i. n t. h 'i s Province, and it is also w~~lJ. knotAtn, Oi" :;houl.d bto! t.lml.l known, thCit the pr·ojects that wc ,11"e <:lrHJouncHd, IJ.H:n ··~) r·t-)t:Otnrnend<::!d by thE! stCiff on Cl priority basis and IJ.Iere not llli.'l.d~-:1 on i:l. p<)J. i.l ·: i.Ci:\l agendd.

So I etsk the:1 hon. minister· if he .i.:; go..i.ny l:o corJi ~i.nt.tt::1 1~1i.t:h th~=! 1necomruendat:ions of his staff, on a fll' i.or·Jty b<:\S.i.:;, h> s l:ar·t tllurl'i.cipd.l funding and c~pital works ·i.unne cl'i .:\I: o 1 y? MR. SPEAKER: The hon . the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affair s . ~'IR. GULLAGE: Mr. Speaker, I should r·Pmind liiEWJber· t.h,'i\t this lious u hds closed for ouer i.:t yeal", and was not of our dolng . SOME HON. MEMBERS: l\J o ~~ i: r·u e . Not t r· u e . r'lR. GUL LAGF.:: thE! bee n that Well, just ur1der· a year·.

W ~ will , .i.n f ~l t:l :, be dt-}dl.lntj w.i.1:h 1-.he ruu t.t er · of allocations for · 1/Ji;lt.c.:!r ~u 1d :>fll.oiJ(;-)r' and i'Oi :1d ~>, don< ": on a pr ·io r·i ty basis, as you said, by !:h< ~ off i.e~ 1..:\l ~; i.n i :h< i! clc ;Jpar·tt nent , and no ·t on a politicCil basis in •::li'IY ~~"~Y, .;ltlcl l:ha 1: ut i.ll. bc, 1 fort hcondng . We urrd et·!;ta nd the fact thu.l : .i.l: i.s ldi:e i.n l~h< -:~ s~~.:~son and ·the ur·genc y, but thCI.t ,:J.nnbuncetn t:!l11: 1M t11 be for •Utt:OII tin g. MR . SPEAKER : Question Period is fin ts hed for today.

BE:For'E! go ·Lng on to cont"i.nuE :! tAJ.i.th Orders of t:he Day, a~Jcdn on beha1f of hun. rneutber ·s , I lAJOl.ll.d li.b~ to welcome to the gctl1eries today a clt::l. f:!gaL: i.on Fr·otrt ltJ.ri.J.l. ·i.ngdte, c o n s i s t t n g o F Co u n c i 1 J. or· F r Cl n k No. /. 1~60

Guy, Councillor· Wi1liarn Cooper·, and Counci.11<H' Har·r·y Cooper· . SOME HON . MEMBERS: 1'1 ~1 cH' 1 ~H~ o:U' ! Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees DR . KITCHEN: Mr. Speake~. MR. SPEAKfR: The hon. the Mln:l s ter· of Finance . IJI~.

KITCllfN : Mt". rh(-) Spc-!a.bn·, j n cornpl:iance wj th r· .i. nan c .i d l ~ d 111 i. n .i. :; 'L r· <:\ 1: i. on i'l c L 1 19'73, J wouJd lJ.kE1 t.o ti:~b]e befor·c :' l:h(~ HOI.IS~! l'.h(;! j"(;!por·i: or Audjtor· GE:HIE-!r·ctJ., aJ.ong IA.rith Publ.i.c Accounl::;l Th~) Accot.tnl :s Ct"Ot~ll'l Cor·pot··ation~;, and Dep<H'brtl-:!nLa.l Ob:>I·H'Vdl: i.ons on r·epor·t of thH AudJ tor· Gener·al the year endlny 1988. Orders of the Day MR. BAKER: Motion 1, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPfAI<fR: r.llot:lon 1. DR. KrTCHEN : I: he The u r~ ThP I". he for· Mr·.

Speake->.!", I wish to ddvise t:l'ti:tt C h a v ~~ r e c <"J :i. v E! d a 1r1 E! s :; a g e f r· om : l .i. :; lionour· the L. ·.i.t~utt•ni:.ril:--Covc~ntor·. r·l! R . ~> t> F. A K F: R : I I l he U eutenctnt-·GOVE:H'I'lOI" of thE~ Pr·ov.i.rtCr.-: ! or Nt:!l~jrl)ttnciJ.:tt 'Jd I Li'o;lrl:)l!l .i. i". l.~;jj,ui:t"l'es of ~)urus t"equ j1"<:1d for· tl·,(~ PubJ..i.c !')l'!r·v i.ce or l·.ht' rr ·otJ i.nce l-or · i. h E:! y hH' P n d :i n g t h E-! 3 1 s t d cAy of r"!a;·chl 1990 by '~ktY oF lnh:!o'i'n ~')upp]y and :i.n accur·dancE! with the p r· o v .i. s i. on ~> o I' f h t:!

Con :; l-. .i. h.t 1-. i. on L6J Mi::tY 29 1 1989 Vol XLI Act, 1867~ Es t .. imi:l ·tes to I recomruend ·thesE:1 l:he House:! of AssEnnbl.y. The hon. the Minister of Finance. DR. KITCHEN: Mr·. Speaker· I I move that the rne s s .::1ge tog c->. the r· tJ.Ji. t h c3. bi.J.l bE! r·eferJ"ed to the Comrni ttee of Supply. On ntotion~ that the House resolve i.l:self j,nl :o ConnnithH:1 of Supply to consider the message of His Honour· !:he I. Leu t-.enan 1: ·Gover· rwt· I r·k. Speaker left the Cha ir ·. Committee of the Whole Mf~. Cllr:l Jf \M()N U.ln OtJ. J) : Or·dtH' I ph1ase! Shdll th~~ F'E:!Solul:ion cat"t"y?

The hon. thE! GovE:1r·nrnE:1nt House l.c:!t:lder·. MR. BAKER: Thank you, Mr·. Cha :i.nllc:Hl. This Interim Supply Bill, I wouJ.d lik0 l:o expl Q. tn to rnewbc-?.rs opposite, is a necessity at this poi. nt- . . i.n til ne. Nor ·rual lyl i.n the ordinar·y course of events, the Hous e r.uould op!i!n ln Februar· y 1 sometime I a budget t.uou J.d be br ·oug h 1: down .i.n e.:::n·1y Mar ·ch and Interim Supply would be asked for. MR. SIMMS : Mr·. Chcdrrrranl on a poir1t of or·d erl j 1.1 :) l: !) () I~J !·) C d rl 9 Q 1: c: J. E! •:1. t' I~J h ,jl t \AH?. ~re doing her·e.

It is ver y II tliJ !) II .-:11. . 1"11: J. f,! •.i :; ). T. cl ~~ fl () I. n :H ; a 1.1 see:ing :it in my expE:H·.i.enc c~ in the l.e...;J.i .:>l.JLr .wel t!lh( H' l·) dn r.nt:er· -irn Su ppJ.y B:i 11~ pr·otJos ed by the i"l i.n.i.:; !;!.~ ;· oF F i.nancfil on bl·lt1o:l1f of the gover·nrnent~ is not irrtr ·od uced by 1: h t::: f'l I. n i. s 1: e r· o r r i. nan c e . No. 2 r~ 61

MR. BflKER: -It doE:~s not n1att.er. MR. SIMMS: So llie how ul<: ~ hav 0 U 1~ Pr·e:; .i.dr ~n i~ oF 1 t·easur·y floetn:l :i.r1tr·oducing it . It s e en1:> t-.o we, i. f you 1oo k Uw(>uy h pr ·eced~nt s and ever ·ything, Mr·. Cha .i.r·m • .:HI, you l.lli .ll. find l:hai : l:he Mjn :ist er· of r:inance is the .i.nd.i .v.i.dua l t.llhO .i.nl :.r·oc:IIJI ;e:; ·i.l·., .:md, of c:our ·s e, our· !;:ide has pr·epar ed for · our ·F i. n ~HH : e c r· .i. 1: i. c: i:o t' 1,~ s pond t.o the Mird si. er· of Financ e and so on .

Per·h clp :> l:he Pr ·e s.i.denl ·. of Tr·ec n;ury Bo ar·d can explain the r·eason and l:he pur ·po se fo~ · l·:h i.s IHlU s u al roo v e? MR. BAKER: To that poi.nt oF or·dr:H', Mr· . Chail"rnan. MR. CHAIRMAN: T h e h o n . t h r:~ r r E! s i. d <"! n 1: o f T r· e d s L.tr' y Board. MR. 8AKF.R : ri r-st of alJ., I would l'i k e to r· c,1ari. nd t: he Go v CH' tllllt:~ n :~. l I o us r:~ '-c:! ad<~ r· that the gover-rnn~Hit SE!ts its ou.m or·der· of spt:~l:lk i.r1y. SOr ·1E !ION . MF.rlJ ::JfR:) : Oppos :i.t:ion Hous~~ I.E:~adEH' . MR.

ElAI< ER: Nulllb er· ti~J<) : r. rh:l.V0 d !t:1C k(o';d {:h.i.:; o u t , o. n d t h r:: _ i n trod u c t ion of the b i.ll c: eHl be do n 1:! by cd 1: he ; t h t·) Pr·esi den·t of Tr·ei:ls ur·y Bo~:t r· d or· the l\1 lnisbn · o f F lna n c~). (\s i:\ 1nal·.

b) i'' of fa ct, :it is prob ably ruor e a p p r· o p ria t P. • Be c a 1J s e j_ n a 1HH 1 :> c.:1 , as the n1ernber who use d to be Pr 0s ·i.den t of Tr ·e c:xs ury Bo ar·d kn o t.t.~s, the whoJ. e Tr ea sur· y Board pr ·o ce ss pe rh clp s .i. nv o 1 v e s the Pre s ·i.d en t of Tr 'e i:ls ury Boa r·d in a lot of the winor del:ai.ls Jnu ch 111o re 1;0 th.:tn any of the other minis ters in gov e r·n111 e n t. So perh aps ·i.l: is a bette r· prac tice for the Pr esident 1...6?. Mdy ?9, 1.9fl9 Vol.

Xu : of Tt·edsury Boar·d to handle-:'! the regular introduction of thE:~ bil1, and 1: h <.:! r-~ .i. n :i. s L l:~ r· o f FinancE! can answEH' questions and so on clbout 1: h ~! v d r· i.o 1.1 ~; p <:1. r· l:: s oF HHo~ doc u lriCMl t dur·ing the cour·se of the g:iu<:~ ctnd l:ak£! i.n Uw llous~~ . 't IJ.Jould Li .I<E! to say once agaJn to the Oppo:;.i.Li.on llou:;e l.uad(!l" UJ;;~I ·. ·.i.l·: i.s p r· ope r f o t' thE:~ P r· e s .i de n t of T'r·t:~d!)t.lt'Y flodr ·d l:o .i.nl:r ·oduet:! t::he b:ilL and that is the de:~cision U.H:~ llli:ldl:~. r-•1 R .

S T r"lM:) : Not to pr·olong the agony, but it .i.s i.Jnpor·l::anl.:, bE!CdUSC-:'!, dS T Sl' .:ti .d, I d o n o t r e c ct ll i t e u e r· h ct p p E:~ n i n g be foro . In 111y ddys i.n l::hE• Legislature I have seen no one other than the Mini.ster of fi.nance introduce the IntE!rirn Supply Bill and l:hat :is the r·~ :!dson l askE!d the question. Now, if it is thE: ~ govr:H'nHJE!td: 1 s i.nb:!nl: .. i.on t:.u haVE! thE! President of Treasury Board introduce lnl.:t'!t'i.rn ~upply from now o n , HHo! n 1~. h a-t L s f i n e . r~R. W F.LLS: (Inaudibl e). MR.

SIMMS: Tf l:ho hon. the Pr·c·~rni .~-:~r· 11.1.i.l.J. just relax nou.1, J can get to my sc,,cond q 1.1 !:'J !) 1:. .i. () n . r !) .i. 1·. 1". h c:! r· H f!) r· (;! L h t:! govc:11"1'1ITient 1 s intention as lAJE ~ll, 1". h ~~ 1'1 , i". 0 h d V lo~ 1.!1 I·~ P i' t'! S .i. d U 1'1 I~ 0 f Tt"r:~i.'!SUtny IJOCII "d 1··ead the budget ne;d : t~H)Hk •~Jhcn i.l: i.s I:H 'Oughi" : do••m? t1N HON . ~~Fr~3 F. I~: (Inctudible) . MR. SIMMS : That i.s a good Chair·man. MR. CHAIRMA~: Order, please! MR. BAKER: To that po:int No . ?. quest .lon, Mr·. oF or·dE!r, Mr·. 1~6 2

Chrd r111an. T h .i. :> i. s i:l s i. J. 1 y !d n d o f Cj u e s I: i. <Hl . Obv :iou sly , the Minister · of Financ e rl:!d ds !:he f:htd9 e l: Spe0ch. J.i: matt er·s li tt le who intr·oduces the In ter im Supply Bill. The Of:Jpos ition House Leader should sit back and r·elax and enjoy hi .mself as much as p o s sib 1 e and 1 e t us get on 1.1.1 l th I: he busin ess of governing th is .Province. MR . SIMMS : Mr·. Chai.r'HlcHl, F'"Lnally to l:hi .s p o i n t of o r· d e r· .

I a rn n o t t r· y i n g t o p 1 a y a ~d ll y g a 111 E! , r am I~ r· y i. n g to ruak<-~ a 1E~gi tiruate point of or d e i" . 8 t:! c i:ll.l s t·) i. F y o 1.1 fr ·ont of tlw l:d] 1 thdt. d i. ~; 1: r· i. b u i: E! d , UH:! b .i. ll i. :; by thE:! lion. llUbC-:!I"i. M:i.n i.:; \:i:!t' or F i.nance. r-'lr~ . no KEI~: r· c.~ i:' d 1-. h t:! has bE:H:Hl p r· I'! :; I·) n i ·. l:1 d l<itchHn, ll E·! h c;u; a 1 r· e ad y p r· E-! s P. n ted "i t . ~1R.

SH~i..,~~: T 1:: i. s t h c-?. f·'l.i. n .i. :; 1: I'! r· o f F .i. n i:l n c c 1 :> I n t. e r· i rn Supply [J:j ) 1, a n d t her· E-) for· e .i.t shot.rl.d be l:ht.:! f"'i.ni.:>i.E~r· oF Fine:!l'lce who i ntr·oducE~s it. I cannot und( ~rs Land for· on e 111o1nent why the Minister· of Finance is not being al lowed to i. n 1: r·od u c e hi . s OtAJJ 'l Interim Supply Bill, and that is the poi.nt. MR. B()I<FR ~ Ont~ final point and that will bE! all fr·orn 111~~, Mr·. Chu i. t'lllc:Hl . lh:.:! Minister· of Finance has e~lr·eady i. n t r o d u c G d UH~ fl i. 1. . T h e ih 11. h a s bc ,HHI i.ntl"oducr:ld.

The Minister· of F i. nan c E:\ h d s a. l r· :"ad y cl on 1:.1 1:. h d t. , ;;1 n cl I <HII situpJy spE~aking io the BilJ a s t h e f i. r· s L s p ~" d k H r· . T h d i: ·i. :; I: h H ord8r we have decided on. We dE!Ciciud OIH' OIMI'I Ot 'clHt' or sp10aldng. Jr. Js a:; sirnplE:1 as Uta i: . The rHo! X 1: :. i.111C! pHt'i-t.:tp:; i.l-. l'llclY bE~ ·( ht:! 1'1 :i rd s l f·r· of rini.HIC:e I 01" maybe SOIIII'!body ul. :;:;! could do .i.1· .. 1.63 Mi!!y 29, 19H9 UoJ XLI MR. CHAIRMAN: Ord~:n ·, plt:!ase! To t. h (,\ p o i n t. of o r· d e r , t h e r· e i s n o p o i. n 1: o f o r· cl 1:! r· .

ThE:~ h on . t h t~ P r· f:l s ·i. dent of T r· E! d s Lll" y Boar·d . MR. BAI<ER: (.)s T was saying, th(:! not'lrlc.~l coursE! of procedure would be for the b u d 9 e t: t o b c:! b r o u r::1 h t · i. n ~~ d r· 1. y i n March, and an IntE:H·irn Supply Bill Lhen broughl: in to give the gov<::1rnrnent monr:1y to tidE:' it ovE!I" unl :i.J. the IAJhol .e budgfd· . pr·ocE!SS IJJCJ.S c ornp letE:~d . No r·ma lly, t. h:i s In tE~ l"i ru ~uppl.y rHJl '~1ould bE! F"rn · a pet' i.od of tv.Jo months n1ax ·irnum. This :i. s l: h 1:! no t'JIIi:ll. fH'O c c,~ d 1.1 r· c'! . II OIJ.H:! v E! r·, Mr·.

Chair·ruan, "in this pi"ov:.i.ncr::l, J.n r·1 ·:!Cc·Hll: yudr·:;, Uta 1: fll'dC i: i.e co! has bE~E:ll'l ser·iously str·ayf!d f1"orn Ol'' dbu:;~ :!d. ~>le hav('! 1-.h~~ ~>.i. i:uai: .i.on no11J 1/Jher·e t. he House has not bc->.en op<·!rl For · el .f.!V(Hl lllOnUt~>. Not'lllt!!ll.y t·:hr::• House would hclve been c~lled l:oyeLher · .i.n FE!~H'Udt'Y bui-. IAJi.:l\> not because rue:Hnber·s opposite rrti.'!dE:~ a ci!-:!C:.i.s'i.on for· U·w'i.r· 0t1Jn r·~~.:tsonsl for· whatt:WE:lr' r·eason. It was C8rtain1y not: to carry on the busim,ss to the provincE:!.

The House was not brought into session, the business of the :>r·ovince IAh:-l.S not c • .n·r·i.E!d on, and members opposite went and got L..i . c-?.u t:E! ndn t .... cov EH' nor· 1 s IAJrHT<.Hll: s I i. n contr·auention of the advice of thE~ Co 111 L r· o 1. l r:! r· G E:l n e r· a l I 1:. o o b l a ""i. n money to kE:\E:~P the govE:H'nrnent going 1-.o P>:lY sal.at·i.<'l :> unl:.i.l. thc~y could gr:!t their· lE:~adersh:ip c o n v e n l: i. n n wh r:~"U,1 v r:H· . WE:l, rlOIAJ, ('! 1. t-:• •: 1: i. o n , 9 0 V E·! I" 1"1111€:~ nt

I) I It':; ('; l_

l) C ') thP rnonE-~Y I~Ji :\t' r· •'~~"' i-. :; No. 2 o r· lc! l. t:! c I~ .i. o n o u e r· , o r· af tE'!I" l.<:ik i .. I"I<.:J of l. his JJJ :i. nrr i ng OVHl'' P!"ov ince, t: hE:' ti-le find in i-.he :;-.i.tuat-.i .on ~~~~H :!r 'c->. J s l"lHHili'I~J ou t. fr·ont ti -,E:! i: ha i: IJ.J• ·:! , .. f! i.,np r·o p ~~ r' 1. y R63

T h e H o u s e s h o ~~ l d h a v e into session. In a d a y s T. n t. e r· .i. "' ~) u prJ 1 y obtai.m~d. beer1 called COL!pl.l~ of cou] d hCIV<::~ thE! Hous(:! b~H.HJ obta-i n<::~d and then d.i .sso1v~~d. i.f Uwy IAiantE:~d to do lhctt. The HOUSE~ should have b f.! e n c a 1. l. <:! cl i. n l: o sEJssJon. Th~~ 111oney obtc.":i ned fr ·on1 tJn~ t~hH 't'anl:!; i.~> now t'lHmi.ny oui-.. A!: qtLickJ.y as we possibly could t.uE:! op,,!n~:: ~d t:h(,~ llot .r:>t'~. br·ought·. i.n l.I·Ji.! ; Jntc"!r·lm Supply rLi.lJ and cH'I!:! now pn·:!SC:~rll:.i.ng i.l: i:

C) l:hf.! 11011!):;!, l'ht' IIIOJH:y j ~; r·unning ou'l.. ThE~ amount: . of IIIOI'H:~y pt'OV i.decl by lMi:H'i''i:Hl'i:!) !~I i.J.J b,!~~p us go:i tlg unti1 the E:~tld of Lh .i.!i lllOnl:h, SO l:hto!f'~) .i.:; SOIIIO ur·ger1cy J n gE:!ti"ing this pi:H"L:i cuJ.ar· b L l.l. ~>a::t:; sud. Th~::~ Inter·irn Supply we:~ dinE:' asking for· covc-'!rs I:IAJO atnounts: T 1:: covt·H'~> the amount of ·the warT~H1ts, $717,775,300, plus an additi.ona1 ctmount to keep us going for· anothc:H' two tnont .hs.

Th~ :!SE! d.lllOlHJb; that we havE:~ r·equE:~sted arE:! essentially amounts to carry out the noJ"rnal housE:~keeping duties of g o v E! r· n HIE~ n t ; to p d y s a l. d r· i (:~ s d n d t: u pr·ovide fo1" ongoing r·egu1ar expensc"1S. The o:liiiOUnl: beoi.ny ask:~d f o I" :is $1 • 1 s 5 , 4 7 5 , 6 00 . That. should kE!ep LIS go i.ny l-ot' ano l:h(H' nJ<HJth or· ~o, un tj J the bud~J(d. can bH pr·opt'!l'·ly dt'!dl.i: 1~1i.i·.h i.n l:h .i.~; ilousH.

IJdeJ··juJ ;)uppJy :i!; :irJ'londed ·lo dE·!etl only 1~1.i .l·.h r·ny11l; :·lr !·Joi.ISl·~kf!f!p i.ny llli'.ll ter ·:; cont.i I'IUiHJCEJ of ongo:1 ng 9 o v H r· l"lllll'! n l: pr·o "=Jl" ;;uns d !'Jc:l pr·o j {:! c l: ~; iHJd j 1 :.is not supposc,~d to c:lr::~dl 1•1i .l.h rl\'!1~1 pr·ojucl·.s. lrJhE~n .i.i·. do<-:! ~; dndl wjth nHu pr·ojec-Ls, thE:~s r::'! havP L:o b1-~ carr:!l-ull.y <:tnnouncE'!d and Ci.'ll"e-fu1ly pojnb~d out in thE:' COl.lr'SE• 01" i'.h(! lnl:.f'!r' ·i.Jn ~')uppl.y debatE:'.

So I this 1989 L61J lAiould likE~ to po ·int out. at l:tliH'! tha 1-. included i.n The 1. 9 9 0 I n lEH' i m S u p p l y B i Ll. , Mc1y 29, l'JB9 Vol XI .I pr0s en l::ly befor·e the Hou se for consideration, are some new cctpi.l:a1 ac cot.ltl l; pr'ojt -i!Ct.s totalling some $8 1 rrd llion. These nelAJ cap i. t:.:ll. .~c;coun ·!~ proj ec i:s u.r L11 b~ descr·ibed in some deta il in the _ bud y t:l i: .

The y ·!l n~ be i. n 9 'inc l.u d G d in th is Inter·in1 Supply for· the t't-H\ :;on Ulo:\1 : i.l.: i.:; late l.n the yea r and con structjon ha s to ge t :; i:~lr b?.d. ~'1!-) h :.wt-~ i:o pr·oc:P.,~d IAJ i. th c e r tal n pub J i c tiJO r· k s i 1'1 t h :is Pi'<)Vi.nt :t·), bc ~ca u :;t~ i.f 1m ~ IAh~i.t for ' another· mon th and a half fo r the b ud~A t·)l: l:o be c:o •np J.~~ l:c:!d , obv ·Lo lJsl y the cons tr· u c t i on s e a s o r1 i s c f of e c l : .i. vel. y

t) v t-H ' , b ~~ t; i;l q s e t h t~ n t>Je would hav e to get 'into the L ''! n d ''! r· i. n 9 p t' o c: \0! s s .

So includ ed in this amount would be ,;q:>pr oxJw.:t l:l-i!l y $1o.B ud .lllon for· impr·ovements and construction to r·oa ds, app rox ·i.rn ctt.e1 y 1>8 1rtilliot1 for road and bridge r•e hab ili .ta.l: .i.on , $2.1 rn:i.l.l.i.on for bridges and causeways, an d $54.1 rn.i.lll o n ~its part of the h i.g ht1Ja y s agreement with th e federal '!JOv erntnent . · Thclt is .::~ total. of $81 million, 1::1nd it is included in l: h i. :; T. n l: ~cH' i.tn ~) u p p l y B i.l l. . i.,1t·)Hib ~n ·:; o ppo s .i. h) •~l.i . ll o':t pp r·-e c .i.a te , ar1d I hav e to be ver ·y fr·an k an d ho1'1: ~!> l. .:1 l: l.h ·.i.:; po i.n t:, !:he difficulty and the di.fficul ·t- j:lO!>i .l:i.on IJII ·) .:\t 'l~ c;Ur't'E!Tli .Jy i.rt l~J'i.t.h a budge t i rt t he p r· o c e s s of fH'l, 1fl o;H'd i:.i.GI' I, ;,Hid br- i,nlj i.ng i.n :,HI Jnt.er ·irn Suppl y n:i.J J b~ ~for ·~ i.-he bl.ld~:jt ;!'l: i,:, 1.>r 'l~:> t~l'll :(i!d i,H id br· i.l'l9 i.ng in CJ.ruourits thc.t hav e to bH tilXp1a i.r11 ~d i.n i:h~~ f!l.l dlje i.

Spc 0c h r,lnd in the budgf:'t process. I feel tha t ule are per·forming our · duLLe :> prl)per·l y by poi .nl::i .ng oul: exactly wha t lhis mon ~ y is for · in ter· ws of .;tmounl :s of u1oru ~y, $16 mill ion for· this, $8 million for roc1d and br •'i. dq e rehctb'i.l i ta 1:1on, $54 mil1 io n for highway s and so No. ~ 1~6 11

on . I f E-H·1 J t. h a "1. :i t. :i s not p r· b per· •:,1 ·. i:h.i.:> 1-.i.ttllo! i:o dr'li '.d.i.1. t:1Vt'H'Y !dngl.E-! pr·ogr'i::llll, t:he:1sE:1 w:iJJ. be an no u n c l:! cl i. n d 1.1 C! co u r· s ~~ . llu i: ~~JC-~ ar·~?. :in the-1 budgt:-)t pt"ocess. I Ud nk ruernber·s oppos:i te aJ so ruust .ippr~~ci.ab:1 that i.n i:h~J discuss ion of 1 he Inter·irn Supply !Jill, becduse of such a thi.ny· as budgei· . secr·ecy cHid everything else unti_l the budget is brought out:, t.h.~ ·t thE:~re ruay not be a whole lot of tnlnub,~ det.:lil thai~ . we can go .i.nto on this Inter·ium Supply Bill.

I k notJJ me111ber·s oppos i. te 1.\J i.1l b<->. pushing us for it, but in all h o n E! s t y , a n d 1~J:i. t: h a l J UH->. fr·i.'.tnl<nes s I can rnus ter·, I tJJould l. i. b~ to say l:.o UHWI H1a 1.: 1.~1!0! IAI i.ll be t:.~s honest and i.'lS s i:r·a i.ghtfor'l..I.J.:tr·cl i.n c'!;<pla .i.n i.rli::J thPse ciiiiOUnts for· Inh-H·iurn SuppJy d !; t..IH·} c: an p o s s i. b l. y b (') ~~~ i. 1". h o 1.1 1: cc.ws:i ng thE-~ br·eakdo1.1m of ·l he->. bud\j~-:1 ·1: pr·oc(:1!)!;, •:Hld t~Ji .l:houi·. bJha1·.

IJ.IE~ iH'E-! do:i ng hen~ be c:orn:i. ng pr·~::~r:lnnounct!IIIHni::; i:h<:li: 1ni.ght: dl'"i"t~t:i: !;orrtE!th:i ng :in t.hE-! Pr·ov:i nc:E:~, be~ causE:~ 1..1JE! hdVf} Lo l.l.k\·.i .l-. l-or 1-.hn bud':l~:!i: i:o be br·oughi.. j nto thE~ !louse-~ befor·o i: h t1 s (:! i: h i. n y s c: an b l-0! cl e.:~ J. i: 1~1 i.i-. h . r'lr·.

Cha i.t'ni<HI, hav i.nr::J sa.i.d UlC!)I:~ few words, I would Jike to give l:he Oppos i. 1:: i.on Jrlellti:HH':; d c:hancu i:o dE!a] w:it .h thP IntN·iurn Supply 8-i.ll. !ide IJJ "Lll. g'i.v(:! t:hetn adequai::e opportunity to debate and deal '"li.th dny ·i.t-:ellls l.:hat uri.ghi: b~~ co v e r· E:H:l i n t hi s B i J.l . I hope l~lhclteVE!r COI"lCE'!t'rlS !:hey hdVC:! thE!Y tJJill expr·ess, and tJJe will do our b e s t t. o .:t n s t~o.H:! r· t h e i r· c o n c 1-~ r· n s , r'l r· . Chair·man. MR. CI ·II1:U\r'IAN : ThE:• hon. thE:~ I"IIOrllb(-'! r· for' Gr·and Ban I<. Ml~. MATTH E"WS: TheHlk you, l"'ir '.

Ch..-1 i.t'tlldt'l. r: li:;i:c·Hito!d 1~1i.i:h gt't-:!dl· . i.ni ·.c·:!n: :!;i. i".o I 5'"• r--1i:~y 29, :1989 VoJ XLJ t h e P r· E:1 s i d E:Hl t of T I" e a s u r y [I o a r· d •:H I J h h (! ;q> }i:Hl ~1 i-. i. 0 i'l

I) f l: h F.! t':)Xpenditur·es pr·oposed in t.hP Ini:c:H'i.urn ~)uppl.y l.l.i.ll.. T Lh.i.nk .ii: is fa i ,.. for· rnE:~ to s rl y a t l:: lw outsei ·:, r"'r·. Ch.:d.r·uJdl'l, dnd T t:h ·i.nk it is accurate, that for· the fit"st. U.me .i.n 1:1-w 1-J.i.sr:or·y ol'" thi.s Par·l iament WE:1 havE:~ seen thE:1 P r· e s t d ~>. n 1: o f r r· ~~ .~ s u r· y Boar· d cl n d not the Mird ster of Finance gE:1t in v o l. v t1 d i. n p r· e sent.: ·i. n g \: h E:1 Inter·ium Supply Bill.

I think wr:; s houl.d put: t:ha t on r'E:1 cor·cl toddy, that this has nE!Ver· occurTE:'d b ~>.for l-) i. n 1:. he his ~:or· y of Newfoundland and L~brador. I do noL: kno1~1 IJ.Jhy, or· l~o.Jhat c~xpl..:~nal:".i .on onE:~ could g::i.ve for· such a chdngu i. n 1-. r· ·3. d · i. t. i. o n . I d o no 1: 1:. h i. n k f o r· ~:~ny ree~son that. it tJ.Jould bP c:t r'l:!l'"l.c,~ci:i.on on l:ht ·:! hon. r·Hn:i.sl::er· of Fine~nce 1 s ciilpetb:i l :itiE~s Ol" COIIlflf'J t:cncl'!, Oi" Uw r>r·c:!Hl i.r->.r·' s confidence j n h:iH1, but I "1. hink Lde hd'Jt-:! 'i:o I.:JO on r't·::cor·d ..

Hid say U1< ~1t: it ls VC-H'y, ver·y l.lnUSUC:.l] thi:·d.. IJ.It':! !iC:!~.~ i:h.i.:; h.:1ppen hHi"t?. i.n i".h i.:; linus(! today. Of cour ·se, over· the last \:1~10 IH' i". hI'(! 1,1 , I;.IC·:! 1-:; k S btl;! hi:\ V e S (! t:! 1"1 d nuruber· of unusual things hi :~ppNi ::i.n Lht·) rr·ov .i.rtCI'! I~J i:i:h appo .i.n hnc·Hl i::; l~o corruultteHs, and rninistEH'S not on conuct.i.t-.1:~!1:-):> i·.hai". l:.hE;y 1-.r-;.HHU .ond.l.ly t.o\lere on.

I am sur·E; that thc.~t t.~.r:i.J.l b:~ dt~al.i: w.i.l:h l.dl:t->.t' on l~.oddy o v ~~ r· t h e n e x t n Ul"ll b e r· of d d. y s and by o i: her· s pea b:! r· s on t h ·is s i d c->. • r'lr. Ch alr· man , 1: would jus t l.i.ke to reflect for a moment, if I could, cl.nd go b.:tck tt.1.1o or· i:hr'GC year·s, on the financial pos i-l:io n of thE:~ Pr o v.i .r1r.1~ o.itld t:ht:! las 1: two IH' thr·ee bud g e t s that have be e n p r· e s en ted in this l.cgisldture. In the 1987-1988 budgc -1t the C I. I r• t' foll'l l: •.i\ C C 0 IJ t1 i: cJ I~ j- i. C: i. i l;.lo').

S pr o j e c ted at $1 7 3 nd 11 io n , and c1 1; 1: 1.1•:' 1.1. y c: <.ilute i. n .~ i: ~is; 8 111 i.l. l. i. on , wh jc h IAJ CI!' s)gnificc HJ

t) y lP-ss than u.Jh ai : I;Ja:; pr·oj~~c ;l.: )d. :r.n !.he l .• ~:;i : No. 2 1~6 1:i

f i.s ca1 deficiL w'i.ll.i.on. I think 'J E! a r· , 1. 9 8 8 -1 9 8 9 , l: he was projected at $41 Two or· Ulrr,H-:! 111011 l~hs dgo, late J~nuary or early Februar·y, i.n ctcl-.ual. fact l·.:h~:! assE:1ssruent that IAJas done on the revenues and the budget position of the:! Pr·ov:ince at that tiniE:1 ShOIJ.lf.!d i:h!'~t'!c1 tAld:; :;ome $ri m i.ll. i.on s ur·plus. J tJJould be lei nd of i.nhH'l·}:; b:H:I ::n l·war Ult:.~ Pt'l·}:; i.dl'!nl : of ·Tr·c·!i'l~ilH'Y Boar·d's 1"(-!CICl.:ion to l: h o:\ l: 1 C\ rJd i. f h (~ h d :; d fl 'J j ltfOr'rlli'-ll :ion t 0 g:i VE~ US -1-hc'-li.

I.I.IOU] d cl.ar·.i.Fy U1.:1i: lllo:ll:h>r', and i.f i.L t.IJd:> j_lldC-!E~d tWiiAIBEHI $5 rn:iJ.l:ion and $:10 tlli.l.l .i.on :;llr·pl.u:; .:1:> of i:hf! ::!rtd of Ji'uJual"Y E~iH·ly rE~b, .. uar·y, tl·t('!rt wE:~ U.JOU l.d b(;! q II i. l::;! i. n l: !;! t'!;! !) l·.l'!d i:O hud t' i. hat cl ~; 11.W J ] . I\1R . ~HNOSOR : 0 r· i. F Uw y c o o k e d t. h e b o o k s . MR. M11TTHF.~~S: If they cooked the books? No, I <:ltll no L go-ing t.o sugg<;!s 1-. 1-.h.::t 1:. anyonE:1 has cooked the books, because I am sure they have not beEHt ther·e long enough 'JE:~t to even think .:tbou t 1-.ry ·i.ng to cook thE:~ books .

J am s1u·~1 that that t h o u g h t. IAJ i. 11 rl (! v (,~ r o c c u r· i. n t h :~ next three to three and a half yt:!i:H'S !:hal: !-.hey ar·e the yover·nm('!n1 : of ·the Provj nee . AftEH' that., of co u r· s e , .i. i.: uJ i.l. J. b l;! o u r· n~spons:lb:jJ.jty ·to do an assessment on l:hn book:; l.h.:ti : i:ht'!':J l.edve bdt:i tld ·[: hE'rtl. i•1t· . Cha:.ir·nti:trt, jn ·lwo yE!iH'S we hHVE~ ~; H H n i:\ '~ l '/ l 1 n i. l. l i. o n d e f i. c i. 1: C 0111 p J. (,!"\" (c!] Y l~t:i p P d 0 U t .

TIJP budgE~ ·~ of '1.ht::1 hon. gPnt]omen, T :;uppo~;e l·.h::! i'r·e:;i_d(·'!nl-. oF Tl"Pt-lsur·y RocH"d or· the M:i nistEH' of F.i.na .nce, o. ·,~=· or UH:!trl IJ.Ji .l.l. in t r· o d u c E~ thE~ budgE:~ t , or· rna y b E:1 t h ~~ f> t' ~~ lfl i. f:! t' IAl j_ ll. IAJ d rl J-. [·: 0 cJ 0 i.l-. hirnseJ.f, ot·· thE! MinistN' of F i. s h (;! r· l E:! s , or· s om<"! o rw (! 1 s (-;! Ilk\'} L66 ~1ay 29, l 989 Vol XLI int-.roduce the budget in a few weeks time, whenever they bring thE! budge I~ i.n.

Flut . tJJ<,1 hdVH SE:1 E!n a dE!ficit reduced from $173 mill·ion, tJJ h i. c h i. s q Ll i. l.: e :;i g n t f i. c a n l: , a n d T gUE:'SS thE:1 question that I would li.kt:'J anSIAlt- :!t·~~d by t~.hE:1 tll·.i.ni.st:er· 11.Jhen he responds, or sornE:~ortE:1 r·epJies fr·otn Hll'! ol :her· s i.dE!, .i.s: H01.u 1ong :i. s Hd s In t e r-:i. urn Supply s up p o s E> d 1:. o l. i:l :; t ·.? fl i'' (·~ ~~H:! t: .~ l k i. n g , r'E>.aljstically, the end of JuJy?

I 911::!: ;~; i.l: i.:> uni:i.l. t:.hl,1 buclg::!l: i.s etctualJy passE~d ir1 l..lw l.f!ljoi.: ;l.dl· .ur·e, 1,\lhi.ch :r: gi.IHS: :; I,1JUUld bH soruetiruE:~ bel·uJE:'EHt the ntidd]E:! of .T u1. y •H 1 cl U1 t:! 1. d :; L of Jul. y , i: o l:w l"ea1Jstic . I i:tfll sur·e mo st. hon. IIH'!tllbl;!r ·:; hopl:! l·.hc1 i: l.lJ(: .::tr·(,~ her·<~ IHd:iJ thE:~ last. of Augus l~ dE!aling 11.Ji.i:h l:ht:! l:>t .lci~Jt'd:, lH:!Ci itusu T dHI sur·e that no one wants to be out j_n thii:1 ~;un .:.~nd t·:he good IJJnal:h( "!r ' i:hi .s l:-..i.trtE! of ·year. Another thing, Mr. Chair·rnan, thi'lt.

I t~Jould li.I<E• to \:alk about, Lf I may, is it was quite il"onic Ol" .:tlnus·i.ng l~o hei.H' the hon. Minister · and his explanation for· thE! amounls he is asking for· for· •~tater· and sewer, transportation and C<:lpi.t.al. IAJOt'k:; pr ·ojE!d:s, and t.o he~ r· how to d i.'-1 y hE! cannot g i v E:' too 11lUd1 del:ai .l, U1d.L U: .h l:oo Hluch to expect that hE:~ gives this d 111 u 1.1 n i: o f d lc~ i: o:\ i. l. .:.1 ~; i ·.o 1~1 h u t' e t h E! monPy wi 1] bH s p8nt th is .Y Ec1i.'ll" . Of c o u r · s lc1 , I c:l i. d i:\ l. i. l: L l.

H r · t:! s (~ d r· c h and looked biiCk thr·ough Han sa t"d, ur:· l.d:> i·. yedt · pdr ·i· . .i.t:ul . .:tr·l.y, tMl 'lf'!r1 1·1(· :! r· P d ct e d to l hE~ F j n cHI u1 l\1i n :i s L e r · of Lhr! dd;J, l·.hc 1118111bur · Fo;-· i\<1ount. Phu·l's TntE·!r·:iru ::·iupp]y t"C:1qUE~ ~;-l: for' 'tHOO rn:i.l.l. i.on. or COUi' :;t;;• I l·:o day IAJ(;! s E~ e h :i s r· e q u e s t fen · ~r,1.,1.')'i,OOO,OOO, l,i,Jhi .ch .i.s qu i.l:.r:! significantly higher · thiHi whi'.tt IAJdS •31:>kf'!d l-or' l.;~ s i: y~ ;a r·.

AI ·. 1::1-H :~ l:i .rrw, of cou r·s e, thE:1 hon. g E:! n t:l E:Hnctn <Hid h i. ~> c o 1 J !-:> a g u (;! ~; o f t·: h u d a y I~HH' e asking for a specific list of road IJ.Jor·k t.:h. :'lt-. IAJ.::ts go i.ng t.o bH dnrw No. 2 R66

iH 'OLirld l:h~o~ rr·ov i.TJG! ·~ I dnd '•h:l i:Br · o!tl'ld l;f?.wer· pr·oj ~cts i. hat WEH'E'! go::i ng to bc· ~ done df'Ot.md U11 ·~ rr·o'J i.I'Jt:e I ~ o T. r.a y to th(·) hon. ruinister·, that, yr l$ , (..IJI~ do f)l<f/1-)c: 1: f1li ' l:l·l,H' d~o) 1:~\ 1.1. c~nd, 11..1h :i le o.Je do r·ea] ::i ze the IJ r. g <:! n c; .Y <) r d (~ o)\ 1. i. n y .un:l f>cl s :; i. 1'11::.1 a n J1tter-:iru Supply B:iJJ i.o keep the Provi .nt:

f) optH'r.ll :i.n':l dnd runni .n~, whiJe we fu]]y rea]j7e i..hat and whil.0 lAJe i.n l::~ nd dnd plan i.:o be co -operat:i ve to keep the Province r·unni .ng as best we Col n, IJ.H i! de ) nol : intend to just give him a fre e h;;lnd, t:o go on and g i.v1- l ~d1n $],155,0001000 in Interim Supply t:o do with as he saes ftt. We wll 1 rteed answers i..o specific ques t i.ons thd t T. 10y s ~~ 1 f dnd o I: her· nm111ber·s on thi s side will ask befcwe IAJe cons i.dcH' appr·ov.al.

Of c o u I" s E~ I 1.u C-:J r· E:~ i'..il i :..- E~ t h e u r g €Hl c y Cl n d WE! .:~r·e nol: goi.ng l:o b~1 i.nvol.vE:!d i.n i-l n y u nn e c: e s sa r· y de] a y s or· s t a J ] i n g l:a c: 1: i.e~ ; i.n l:hc'.l llotJS ~ 1 bc~c:i.HISI'J i.l. is too :impor-tant an ) ssue for the pc :!O p lc ~ 0 f t tH ~ Pt'OV i. n t; ~) I:

c) p 1,,:1 )/ tho t ldnd of garue. Ther ·e :i!.: a c:cH 'I:.!I.i .n fr·anki-11-~~ ;:;; Ulr.ll : ult ~ uJ j.l.l ex pee:"\. iwd WE-! t.uj 1 J r·equ ir·E:l befor·e tMc- ~ yc·ll : on ~,.~Ji .l :h 1'.1-H l aci:IJ,ll po:ts:;i .r ty. i-ii" .

C h.l i. t'll lo:Hl , HI~-~ ~H } o:1 r ~) :;c) 1111 ~ o f i..he i h :i.ng~; and some of the qua :; 1: i. on:> 1: h a i'. 1~1e 1•11> u l. d l. i. k t·l r·ajs8d, Jike , r·ea)is ti calJy, wha t I~ i.1n ~~ f r·a utc~ an ~ 1~1e l.oC) k i.ny o:1 t for · i..hj s alfloun t of mon~~Y to cover·, if IMe co uld hav e a 1 i. t l:l.e mor •a de l:a i.l. on t.uher·f:l the ruonies w:i 11 be spent i.n th :~ rr·oui .nr. e l H l~-~ o":lHIOUnl- .s of mon ~ y outl ined by the hon . rn i. n i s tc'.l r a n d o u 1: 1 i. n e d i. n the B i. 11 , attd if !Ale could ge t further detai 1 0 rl 1.1.1h I·H 'I~ IAJ9 Carl mon ies to be spent? exp ec:l : the se Of co LH' s e!, Ml" .

C ha i nne~ n, WE:' anl· .-i. ci .pd.U: dncl look i-on~J<H'd l:o l:he [JudgEd . :itst>lf and to the oxpnnd .i.l·.ur ·c':s oi" Lh~~ i'lLic)Ci'.\i.C'!d 1 bE-:CCIUSP U.H:~ kt;! c:: t1 , o n t··. h i. :; :; i. d e , o:t n cl I 67 Mcty ? 9 I :1 9 fl C) \110 II C'! IJ S

I) a r· ~:! q u :i t e Uw r>c·::opl.e Vo] XI. J nl- IJH:: Pro1J i.i'lt:~:! i:li 't:! qu i.l:c-:! kt-:~Hn as I.I.IE:!]], to t~Jat.ch very car ·efuJ.Jy to ~)c·::e hot.<) illOi'l i.t::!> oH'C! :;pr::n i. by UH:: nE·:W i:tdnd nistl"eti ion. The t·herue of i ·. h :} c:! 1. u c t: i. o n c a lfl p a i. 1::1 n t,\Jiil s ft:·drness, balancE:~, and el:iminating n~yi .on.:d. d _i.~;pdt·i.t:~. ~·Ju o:\t'U goi.ng to wet t c h v ~H· y c1 o s e J y I as t h P o r r i. c i. a 1. o p p o s i. t-. i. o n o r t h (:~ Province~, and we 1AJ:il1 be infor·rning i·.h~;;! pt::opl.t:' of l:h{;!

Pr ·ov i.nce accor·dingly e~s to how tA1el1 th~~ Pr·r:!llli.E!t' par·L.i .cul..::~rl .y k<::(.;!ps l::he pr·omises that he rnad~;:~ just a fc:::1.u shot•t l~H~f~ks ago. Of COlH'Sf:! 1 WE! haue seen sorne signs of his fa.i .t•nc-?.SS O!- ba1dr1C{;!

OVf:!t' the last couple of weeks in the way he d e .:.~ l. l: 1.1.1 i. l: h s o uH:! o f o u r· t. o p c . i. v ·i. 1 ser·vants. w~, just. hopE:~ tl-ii'l.t whE:n ·i. t: COillC::~S [·:o i.:hf~ E'!XpC:!ncf ·i.I::UI"l:!S of t.ht1 Pl"ovincE:~ he w:i11 1 ir1dec::1d, bE:• i'IICH' (·:! s i. n c I:H'1:! db 0 l.l L h :i. :; r.:d . r· rw s s and balance when it cornes Lo spt:!rtd i.ny lllCHI(!IJ ;u·ound t:hc.:: v.H·.Lous ar·eas of UtE: Pr·ovince. WhE-~n saying th<:~t c:~s wc->.J 1, 1'11".

Cho:1i.nnanl U11;!i "e i.~; no qu(.::sL'i.on thai there ·ar·c:1 S(HitE:l r·E:~gions of l:h i.~; Pr·ov i.ncu i:hd i: hdVt:: gr·c;~d i:t:!t' needs ·i han othel" few I"Odd IAIOI"k dnd r·o ad i. ulfH' o v ~~ 111: :: n i·. :; I 1~1o:1 h-~ r· .-1 n d ~; HlJ.JC·:. r· and evpr·yt.hj ng E:1] se. No one can aryuc': d\_j<:\ i.n:; i". i:ha i".. No one can i:H·gue agajnst fair·nt~ss and balance i. i" i. l: i. s r:l c 1·. u r:-l ll y Fa i. r· n c:: s s d n d bi:tlCince. I would be the first (Hie~ i:o eld1ni.i: U1o:1l.: i.n Ul.i.s l..l:!~ri.sl.dl:tH'c:: and I tried to por"Lr·e~y that as bE=!S i".

T could tJ.Jht:.n l tAJd S on l::hc:! other· side. I see thE:~ rnE:>rnber· For· Por·t. de:: Gt 'C"lVH, UJ(.;! hon. rhn .i.st.er· of Social Services (Mr. Efford) 111aki.ng cotomeni::; dnd l.:tuyh.i .nq, bul: one thing hE:~ cannot say about rnE:. i.s l:ha i". T tAl.:t~; unf;~-i t· . T l~r· ·i.od L:o bP fail", I tr ·ied to be E:'qui ti.'lble~ d n d T L r· i e d i". o bald n c e 1-.l'l'i. n g s , ar·ound this Pr·ovince, of th~~ dE!pi:H'I "'.IIIl-:!rl i::.> l.hd l: T h •. HJ jur ·isd:lcl:'.ion at the tin1c::~. No. 2 ~~ 6 'l

MR. G. WARREN: Mackisons will get their water and sewerage system. MR. MATTHEWS : I am sure other members on this ~ide will be dealing with all those election announcements and proHtises that. were made by the han. the Premier and I am sure that he wi11 live up to hls 'fairness' and 'balance' campaign promises over· the next couple of months in this Province . Of cot.n•se, ir h(~! does everyonr::1 w.ill be happy, because ·those ar·eas of the · Pr·ovlnce thdt hatJe the greatest need tAlill indeE:1d get Tl1or·e 111onoy !.:han those'! thctL have les~>e.l" needs.

I look forward as one membE!t' of thr::1 L~::1gisllun~ t.o seeing that OCClH'ing in the Pl"OVinCE:'. Mr. Chairman, I will conclude my few rernar·k s by say lng, agaln, that I would like greater detail, more specific outlinlng of where the ruonies are going to be spent, particularly for capital works. In saying that I am , only making the same re quest that the hon. minister made last year wh en he was in this position. If it was reasonable fo r him to expect it then, it is only reas onabl e for· rne to expect it today and over the next couple of ddys.

We look forward to further questions and debate on the Interim Supply fllll, Mr . Chair·ruan, and I will have n1ore to say a little later. SOM F. l-ION. M"EM8 F f~S: I lear, hE!al"! MR. RIDEOUT: Ml". Chair·ruan. MR . SIMMS : ThE:1 Minister· Ki.tchE!n) .i.s not a COIIIIIIE:1nt. of Finance (Dr. even going to make L68 May 29, 1989 Vol XLI MR. CHAIRMAN: The--· hon. the Leader of thE! Opposition. MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Chairman - MR. SIMMS: You would be prepared to sit down with the minister, would you not? MR.

RIDEOUT: I cer·t.:dnly vJo"uld be pr·epar·ed to sit down if the Min:isteto of r i.n.:HICe lJJantod to make d comment. It is his resolution. MR. SIMMS: Unbelievable! MR. RIDFOUT: --· --- Mr·. Chairman, I have nevE·r· sE•E!I"l happen i n HI y f L f t e ~Hl y e a r' s i n t h :i s Legislature what is happening today. I hc\Vt:1 never· ~"''!E!n it. If the Government HousE! LE:1ader is to be totally hon<~st and aboveboard, during his tE!rm as Finance critic he has never S('!E!I'I it either. MR. SIMMS: That is con·ect . MR .

RIDEOUT : We have neVE:H' st1en a situation in thi.s i>arliarnE•nt tAJhen the President of Treasury Board wi t:.h the M:i.nistur· of F Lnanct"! _prE!Sent in \:he House, sitti.ng in hjs sE~at, takes t.: he r· ~~ s pons j_ b i.l i. !: y for· L n trod u c -i_ n q Interim Supply. It has never· hi'!ppt!ned. SOME HON . MEM BERS : 1-it!i.:H', ht1iH'! MR. SIMMS: ~3hc\HH"!! :3harnt1! Shame! MR . RIDEOUT : Then, Mr . Chairman, if no l: bad (->.nough, t.~.d.l:h I:: he No. 2 that was President R68

of Treasury Boar·d sitt. ·ing i.n his seat, the Minister of Finance, after · 1: he off i. c i a 1 c r· i. l i. c for· Uw Opposition speaks, stays in his s c~ a t , s t lll. d o E:~ s n o l u· y I: o y <,~ 1: u p and defend the estimates that the gov0t'n111enl ctt'e "introducing today. ~JI1at kind of signal, Mr . Chairman, ls that sen dlng to lhis Par·liantent? What kind of signi:!.l, i"lr·. ChairrniHl, ls l::h.:tt sendLng to the credit agenc ies, to the bond r·at:ing agencie::!s thfll hdve to d(·)al with the credit of Newfoundland and Labr·ador?

It ·Ls ~rresponsible, on the first day of a new govermnent ln a new legislative session asking for Interim Supply, that the Minister of FinancE:~ stays jn his seat and allows the President of Treasury Boar·d to introduce his resolution . Mr. Chair·111an, what dOE!S that u1ean? MR. TOBIN: No confidence in the Minister of Finance. MR. RIDF.OUT : Do es that mean , Mr. Cha ir man , that the a.d urLn :Lstr· i:l l:.lon has no con fide nc e whatsoe ver in their M .i. rl'l s 1: til r· o f ,_.. ·.i. n i:ll'l c t.:'! ? · t s l h a t what it mea ns? MR. SIMMS: It ls pretty obvious. MR . RIDEOUT: -Does that mean, Mr .

Chair man , that the Mi ni ster of Fi nance in this admi nistratio n is goi ng t o b e sile nced? He ls sitting in the bac kb enches; although he is a Minister of the Crow n he is in the back benches, as are ot her mlnlste rs. Does it 1nean that the Minister of Finance is goi ng t o si lenCE!d, Mr . Chairma n, that he is goi ng to be stifle d, tha t the adutinistration has no confid0nce in him, that the y ma de him a L69 Ma.y 29, 19139 Vol XLI rni n.i. s ter Is that Chr~ ~i.t•metn? Mr~. SIMMS; just to keep what this It is pretty clear . MR. RIDEOUT : him quicO!t? means, Mr.

T h at .l s i:\ p t' e t t y s o n· y rn (:1 s s a g e to be sending to the people of Newfoundland snd Labrador. LE!l rnE! tell you sornethi .ng else, Mr. Chairman, that I have never seEHl Ln thE! fifteen years that I have beeh in this Legislature . I have nE!Ver · seHn the most senior Cabinet Cornmi t tee I PJ.anning and Priori t.iE!S Cornrni 1·: tee , devoi.d of a Mjnister of Finance and a Min ister of F:i.shtH'ies . [ have nE!Ver S<'!en it. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear I hE!ar! MR.

RIDEOUT : EV(:H'Y adm.i.rd.s t:r·i:\U.on that: I haVE! observed in this Province in the t::i.lllt::! lha 1: l: hdVt! bUE!rl hE!r'(:1, thE:1Y were the ch~irpersons of the vat' i. o 1.1 s p o 1 i. c y co rnrn ll t e (:~ s , l :i. k E! Treasury Board , like Resource Po1 .i.cy, li.l<e ~>oc i.al policy, but in addition to that there were the b.uo mosi: lmpor "i::anl: and most. significant ministries in thE!

GoV(:H'nrnenl:: of N t~I}Jfoundl anc:l dn d Labrador, one being the Minister of Financ e, who has the r·E:~sponsibility for r·ais:i ng and spending the money of the taxpayers of th is Province, and th e other one, then, the Minisb.~r of Fisheries, who has rn:ini stE!d. aJ. con tr ol OV E!t' th e 111ost :i.mpor ·tant. economic department in th is Pr·ovlnce . We have an admini stration today that have, deliberately or otherwise, froLen tho se two ruinisters of f ti'H':!ir most serd or No. 2 :~6 9

Cabinet Comrui ttee. So every time, Mr·. Chair·man, ther·~~ .is a question of policy and planning and priority that comes up relative to Finance, who does the Premier turn to? MR. SIMMS: Himself. MR. RIDEOUT: Himself. He certainly does not tu.r-n to his Minister· of F.lnance because he is not there. If there is a question, as there is now with this Provinc e facing a crisis in the f.i.shery, on f Jsher ·i8s 'ln that Planning and Priori ties Comm.ittee meet ·ing, who doe s the Premier tur·n to for· advice? MR. STMMS : Himself. Mf~ . RIDEOUT: -·-------Himself again. Mr·.

Cha.ir·man, this has neVE!t' been seen to have happ~~ned in this Province before. The two most senior ministers, responsible for two of the most important departments in the government, are deliberately froLen out of the inner circle. They are deliberately frozen out of the most senior Cabinet Corr~ittee. They are set aside. They are nothings. They do not r:~xist. The i r a cl v :i c e .l s no t: tAla n t E' d . T h <~ y ar·e only a pr·oblem, so you solve the pr·ob l EH'fl by keeping them out: of your hair, Mr. Chairman. It is unbelievable that this would bG aJ.lotAJE:~d to happen.

The ruinistei"S thE!fnselv<~s, I t}Jould expE!Cl, ar·~~ not vr:H'Y happy. ror· th~~ Minister· of Finance und the M.ln.ister of FishN·ic~s not lo be included cn1 tha l: S(Hl"ior· Ci:lb LrH'! L Couun.il::tE!('! Js unbelievable and I tAJould expect that they are not very happy. L70 May 29, 1989 Vol X I.. I SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. SIMMS: Hold on, boys, or Clyde wilJ. give you a rap. MR. RIDEOUT: Mt· .. chair·man, 'i.t is 110 trouble to know that the hon. the Emperor is absent frou1 the House. MR. SIMMS : l<ing Clyde. MR. RIDEOUT : You h~::~ar· l:ht~ othN' side .

Ci'd:ca 'l1:; now fr·om the You will not hear him 1~.1 hen he .. L s .i. n . MR. SIMMS : No, you can scly ;·:hdt c19l'.l·.i.n. MR. RIDEOUT : 3u L you L.ll i.ll ht!i.H ' t:hi:~rn nou.J fr·om the other side . SOME HON. MEMB ERS : Hear, hear! MR. RIDEOUT : i"'r. Chail"Hlan, whoever· ls going to provide answer·s, whethE!r it. is the President of Treasury Board, but preferably the Minister of Finance it i.s his bill; the resolution and the bill stands in his name - shoul.d b<~~ pr~::1pared to stand up on behalf of the administration and an stAler· quE! s t J o 11 s .

B u l: tAl h o (;! v <H' i t is going to bE:~, one or the othE!r, we have no control over it . 1t is something that. has never happE!nE•d before, but we have no control over that. Whoever it is going to b t! , I h o p t! , M r· . C h cd r· rna n , t. h a t. they are prepared to provide spt!Ci.f·.Lc anst•Jer·s. '[ l:i.s b:1nud briefly to Government House Leader the and Pres.idenL of T r· o a s l.l r· y B o d r· d talking about part of this was No. 2 roo

Special Warrants that had been obtained by the previous administration. That is true for a two month per· iod, Apr· ·Ll and i"'dy, so I t.uould assume the balance is for· an add lt'l on i:ll monl.:h, thai: ls up to the end of June, that the tH-:!W govr.:n·rmH:Hlt ·i.s as!< lng For. MR . SIMi"'~3: Seven hundr·ed rnilJ.ion in Special ~~arran t:s . MR. RTDEOUf: Yes, $717 nrlllion . ~~e want to !<now specificall y what is current account and what is capita 1 account in this total allocation.

And I expect the Presid ent of Treasury Board or the Minist er of Finance when I sit down to get up and tell us exactly, first of all, the breakdown between current account and capital accoun t. Current account obviously the gover·nrnent has to hav0 to meet its everyday comnti tmen t and to pay its bills, pay the salary bills and ·t h :in g s of that nat u r· e . It is not normal that there be any significant capital r·equE:1sts made in In ter··.im Supply. 1\low I: her:.:! ~.'l.t':.:! s o 111 e fed era 1 I pro v :l n c i a 1 pro g r· a rn s that have l.:o be continue to be funded.

As a rnatter· of fiHt thE:1re tAJer·e none i.n l:.he SptH:.i.i:\1 ~Jar·r·.:mt requests, only four rE!dC~r·aJ./pr•ov.i.nc i.al COITIJn .i.tlnE!I'llS Ol'l ERDAs and things of that naturE:1. Thesr.:1 have to •:JO on and !::hal:: :i:; nor·rnaJ. and that is lE!gal. There is nothing wrong with thal. But what ts the breakdown in this budgetary request here between current and capital? And also, Mr. Chairman, we want to know the br-eakdown per depar 't ment. For example, the total request for the Dl':~partment of Fisher·ies i::> al most 1..71 11-iay 29, 1989 Vol XLI $21 million in Interim Supply .

Now th~t'c:! will be -· what - three or four months pass by during the pt~r· ·i.od l:hat co•Jer·s Ul'i .s Intc:n ·i~n Supply Bill, but certainly I do not ~xpect the Department of F i s her i e s budget wi 1 1 be four 1:-.imes i~wenl.:y urllllon . I would .hope it is, I would love to see thctl : i.t, bui : 1 doubt lf it u.1i ll be. So the Department of F .l s her· les, for· orw examph\, is asking for a significant amount of a 11 o c a t l on i. n tho s e two s up p 1 y motions. Part oF i.t, of cour·se, ·is HHH'e .is an ERDA agreement in · Fisheries, and I understand that.

But we want to know the breakdown between cur·r·c~nt and capital . Wc :1 tJJant to know it for departrnE!nt by dc~partm~~nt.

And th~::1 minister must have that information. · Surely goodness the minister is not coming to this Legislature without being able to telJ. us at the flick of a finger - it is no good to say we a r 0.! new rni rl'l s t e r· s , Wt<! lH' <::1 new this, we are new something else; eUE!T'Y mln:ls ter·, and surely the Minister of Finance, rnust be able,~ to L:tdl. us -· al.: the (lick of a page how much is capital in a pi:H't.i.cule:n· dr.:1prH·Unent, ho•AJ much is current in a particular dupe:n·l ·:JIIenl:, and, aft:E!t' do-.i.n'::) that, Mr· .

Chair·man, what ar'E! th<::' FH' o j e c L s t:. h at <H' E! 1:3 cl'i. n g t o b <::' funded under· the amount of capita1 i" <:1 q u u s 1: "'~ d h c;• r· e i. n L h :i. s I n l:: u r· i m Supply todi:'ly? What pr·oj~~cts IAJi11 bt<! funcl~~d in Fisher·it:!S, and :i.n Development and in Rural DE!Veloplftent and in Tr·anspor·tat.i.on, Municipal Affairs. AJl of those things th(:1 rninislE=!r·s must cons ti tu tiona11y make available to the House of Asst~lllbly bE!fore t:his House of Assembly constitut:iona11y rnah!:> supply dVd:i.lable to it, Mr·. Chairman. No. 2 rn 1

SOr'IE liON. MEi'-18 E RS : HeaJ", heetJ"! MR . CHAIRMAN: The hon. the m(:1Jil~HH' for· Bw· -ln Placentia West. MR. TOBIN: Mr. Chai rrnan, it is almost unbelievable what is happening here today. We have the gover·mnent cOJrrirJg into thr::~ House and, as the Opposition House Leader said E:~ar·l.ier· when he r·ose on a point of or·der, and as the 0 p p o s i t i o n LE:~ ad e r· has s tat. e d , one thing is clec.'.lr thE:~ Pr·emeir today has c:!xh:ibitc,H:I 1 Mr· .

Chai.r·rnan, qu .itt:! clearly - alrnos t dramatic in thr:~ 1.1.kJ.Y he ha:; co1nr::~ plac~:~s no confidE:'ncE:~ whatsoever· :in the i"':i.nisteJ" of r·.liVHlC<: '. t lll!::'iHl, thi:ll. is blr..ttantly obvious to the whole P r· o u l n c e t h d 1·: l: hE! rJJ .i. n .i. s l:: e r· of Finance today :.i.n this Assembly do~~ s no l h<:'\ v <::! !:. he,~ co nf:i.d 1'::~ n c <::! of the:1 Pr·EmdE!I''. As a matter of fact, Mr. Chairman, [ do not know how thE:! Minister· of Finance can con t .i. n u e to s ll in tl-l'i. s House and continuE! to sit in ·the CabinE:~t wh~:HJ t.hE!

Prern:ier· I his u~ader· I does not have any confidence in him . Not only does he not have confidenCE! ldtough in him to let him introduce the bill, the minister himseJ.f does not have condfidence in himself to defend what has comE:1 forward herE! today, becel.use he has notAJ r·efusr:.~d on ttAJO occasions an opportunity to stiHld u p aft e r· t h c,~ P t' E! s -.i d (~ n t of T r· e d s u r· y Boar·d has spoken . He has rE:1fused now on tlJJo occdsions, r"lr· .

Chair·ructn I to take the:1 floor · and explc~ln t.o us lJ.Jhal: .ls :i.n th.L ; ~ so e·.i thE~t'· the Prern:ic'>.r' has no conf ·i.deriCt'! ·i.n h i.Jrt Ol'' ht! ha~; no corrfidenu~ :in himspJ.f . But one \JJa y or· 1·: he o l hE! r· I 1:. h ~! f i. n d n c "'! ~; o i­ thj s Pr ·ovincE ~ I Ml" . Cha:ir·rnan cl t:! s tH' v e s om e bod y u.J h o h a ~; c on l: t' o J. ovc,~r· the DepiH'-lrnE:'nt. of 1:-ini':triCl'>. i.Hld L.'/2 i"'dy 29, 1989 Vol XLI ls go.i.ng to Sl:~l: a CO\H'':;o and direction, And I urge thE!

Minister· o F f .i n i'\ n c E! t h a t y o u r· r· o 1 E~ , S 'l r· , :i s very important to this Province, a n d t u r· g e y o u t o s t: a n d f :i r· 111 against _your leader and stand up and oper'd b:~ Hw departmE!nt that you are supposed to operate. I say fur ·ther·, Mr. Cha irman, that when IA.Je ·go throu ~Jh this, and we look at Transportation and we look at Municipal Affairs, Mr. Chair·man, ·.it is obvious that there is a significant allocation For Uw DE~par·tlnE!nt of 1-r·anspor·tation in particular. So I would assume, Mt·.

Cha:i.r'Tni:Hl, t~vun though the 'infor·mation hi.~s not ber:~n g'luE'n to LIS c:IS t-.0 1!.Jhdt pr ·oj E~C t.s d.r·c,~ going to be carried out, I IJJould dssurne F r· Olll L h .i. s 1: h a 1: t h ~H ' t:! · L s g o i. n g t. o be capital works over and above t:hE! F.RDA aqr·ec menl::> Lh.:-1.l: haut:! twen presently introduced or signed. And I hope, I say to ti'J(:! M:inistN' of Transportation, (Mr. Gilbert) Mr. Chairman, that thE:~ Government have struck down the MC that. dealt with putting two fen·iE:~s to BE:'J.l Isll:lnd, tAri.l1 br;~ gluing the P'>.oplE! of Bell Island, an adequatE! fE!r'ry seru.ice.

I wonder where the member for· Be 11 I s land ( M r· . W a l s

h) is? Becaus< 'J T can g.:Luc'! the l'rJ(Hnber· for Bell Island the documentation, Mr·. Chair·man, thdt appr·oved the two ferries for Bel l IsJ.and. I can g.ive to hi1n, Mr '. Chainnan, where the previous Peckford Ad rni n i s t. r· at :i o n ·- by t hE! IAk'l. y I i t. was Peckford Administration dppt'OVE!d t-:he l.·.tAJO fet't'it>S and lriOU( ;!d thE!ITI up. It was not the R:.i.dE:'out Ad,n:-LnL sl:r ·a+.:·i.un, .i.L wa s l::hE! Pt->ckfor·d Adrnini str·ation that did .i. 1:. '( t::d-_ l: hE! I flO 111b E' r· f 0 r· l:l c:!ll. Island, Mr· . Chair·rnan, is i:Hlothel" nkHI , 1 i. !< ~:! t. h t!

M i. n .i. ~' l: C'! r· of F .i. n d n c E:' , c i:Hl s t a y hE:' r E! . A b o u t hi s 1 e Cl d E' r· ''' n d h .i. ~> g o lJ l'! r' n HJ f! n l , IAJ h a L d · i. cl h E:1 do? Is thE:~ J" e rno n e y in t h .is f o l" 1\Jo. ::? R'/2

two ferries for the people of Bell Island? Has the 10e1nber· for· Bell Island asked that question, Mr. Chc:drman? Has th1::~ mc-:11nber· for· Bell Island asked that question, Mr. C hai r·111a n? Has Uw rne:~ulb:.n· asked the question is there money in t h·i s s pG c ial IJJcu·r·,:ltll: or· going t.o be in the budget for ttJJo ferr·ies? MR. SIMMS: He LS noL al1mvcd 1~o i.'l:>k. MR. TOB1N: Well, he should ask. I think the mernbc-n· for Boll Jslr.Hld pr·obc.'.lbly w:lll ctsk.

I will bE:~ disappointed .if thE?. me1nb~::n· for· Bell Islctnd doe:; not insist and say to his leCider that when orw gover·nrnent saLv 1.uhat was neE!C.ied for the people of Bell I s 1 and , UH-:! n your· go v e i'' n rn 1::H1 l: , 5 i. r· , has to do thE! ScHTIE:~ thing for the people of s~~ll Island a:> the.:! previous government was going to do. MR. SIMMS: He will-get his knuckles rapped. MR. TOBIN: Mr·. Cha.ir-rnan, that :is betu.H:HHJ h.i.m and his leader, although it is blatantly obvious to all of us, but I will not get into that. Mr. Chairman, let me say to the M·i.rd.sLer· of Tr·an:;por·l~.ati.on.

T. h clUe , S :.i. r· , :l n rn y _ b r· i e f cas E:~ , a 1 is t o f I' or.\ c:l s on d p r· ·i or· .i. 1·: y b d s .L s t hal: l.o~.Jas clr·aftc-:!d, documented, not by the pollLLclans, not by Lhe MinistE:~r· of Tr·anspor·tation, but by UH:! S!::Hl i.or· o Ff ·.L C.La l s oF Lhc.;! Department of Tri:lnsportation, pas s ~~ d , p u l: -.i. n pl. a c e , r11 r· . Chair-rucll'l, for· I beliE:WE:~ $4-8 tnillion. MR. SIMMS: A non-partisan list . L73 May 29, 1989 Vol XLI MR.

TOBIN: Sur· e , a s t r· i c t 1 y non-par· t i s an 1 i s t of roads on a pr·iori ty basis for· this pr·ovince, puL l:o9el:hE!r' by t:he senior civil SE!r·vants, Mr·. Chi:l i.r·man, I t.r.~anL to knoLv -i.s the Minister· of Transportation going t.o co1ne For·th IAri. Lh the samE:~ List and if fairness and balance is going to 0xi.sL as tAJas corrmrittE!d by the ·Premier during the election c a 111 p i:l .L g n ? ~·J L ll i.IJ i n i s t e r· o f Tr·ans por·tation, Mr ·. Chairman, p r· G sen 1~. L hat ll s t

I) n a p r· -Lor· i 1: y basis if he will pr ese nt to this H o u s l,~ ? A n d I IAJ.i .ll b e a s k l n g t h e MinistE:H' of Municipal Affa ir ·s, to do l:lkC:~IAl"l<:>e, ancl I IAIOUld bE! V"!t'Y surprised if the Minister of Murd.c ipL'Il "'ffa.i.r·s IAd.ll not do that . I t hi n k he i s a v EH' y honourable gentleman, and I have to say that to hirn, I commend hirn for· thE! position that:: he .is in, the same as the member foJ" GandEH' (Mr·. Baker) and the Mirdster· of Development (Mr. Furey).

The Minister of Finance - not the Minister of Finanace, I do not know the gentleman, but his lE!adc ·H' has explained the confidence thcd: hE! has ·i.n hJ1n today. I can :.;i:ly thai: Uw M·i.nistE!I" of Municipal Affair·s, and I havE:' said .Ll: i: o h i. Til rn y s elf , T hones t.l y bE:1lieVE:! hE:~ is doing a good job. r1 !) T. h"' IJ t! s d .i. d 1: o 1: hI::! M .i. n is t e r· o ·F Development, who is Minister of c:ll.IIIO:> 1-. <:Wl:H'Y 1·:h.i.ng, and I:: hE! President of Treasury Board. Mr·.

Chair·man, IJJE:~ have got to have, as an Oppo:; i. t: .i.on, and thE:! people ·of this Province got E:!Ver·y l"i .gh t. t.o knot•J, I::!VE!r'y r'ighl~ .• iv1r·. Chairrndn, what roads thE! Minish!r' o f T r· a n s p o r· t d t .i o n i. :; g o .i. n g t. o b E! dE!aJ.ing with. · Is he going to be dealing with a list that is struck by the Planning and Pd.od.ties CouurLi.ttec,~. Mr·. Chair·rnan? ~~ho .is the Planning and Priorities No. 2 W73

_l._ Cornmi tt ee? The Pr·emier·, the Pr·ernler', l:he Pr·ernler·. J.:> thdl : who i s go lrrg to s e t up the 1 i s t for· l:hls Pr'ovi.nce, or· .l:i it golng i:o be the Minis ·ter of Finance and the. Minist er of Transportation b~sed on the recomruendettions that I have that wer·e put forth by -the senior· bureaUcracy of the depi:trtment based str·ictly on need? That is what we will be looking for. I do not think that we deserve anything less. We have got to have it, Mr. Chairrnan. H\ere are other areas that I can certainly touch on. There is $82 million there for· 'soc lal Servic es.

I hope the Minis ter· of Soci..\\1 Ser·vices is go :i.n g ·to c.::n ·r·y out ,the new initiatives submitted by the department for fund i.ng i.l'l the Budget, sorne ver·y badly needed ones, Mr·. Chr.d. nnan. I had i:\ con v e r· sa 1: l on , by 1: he We\ y , w:i th the M::i nister· of Social Ser·v'lces t.he day drhn · he i:ook office.

I . infor·rned hirn of so we thi.n g that I i:houghi : nece:>:ilH'Y arrd I believe he shar·ed my fee1 .i.ngs on l t. ( thought .ll : 1.\hlS something despicable that WCIS taking place i.n this Pr·ov'lnce. '( asked hinr to deal with it and, even though he was supposed to get ba ck to rilE: ! and did not, when I as ked hlrn today he told 1ne he did take care of the matt er ·. I sin cer el y hope he did. I do Minister Chairman. not of lflind Societ1 SOME HON. MEMRERS : iiC'!ar·, he:~ar·! -·--- Ml:~.

TOBIN: Hri.nd Social advising Services, •::t d v · i. s .i. n 9 S<~I"Vices. th(:' Mr. (·: h ~~ And T do no L ~1:in:istet .. of I lAJi.l.l not. ~:~~d: ·i.nl:o i.l:. flu 1·. [ tell you, the is~;tH~ lA!e U.JE :• r· e f. 7 •1- May 29, 191l9 lJo l. Xu: talking about, if he WE:~r·e on th :is s .i.dr:.1 and T I~ICt:> ov(:!t' LhE!t'e, he would. And by the IAICIY, I hope hP nr.::td~::~ the Prl:1Jil.i.~::n· dt\lare of · .i.t. I aru ser·ious about this. If he has not rn<:~df :! the Pre:~rn:i.E!r' alJ.Jar'E! oF what we talked about he probably should do i t b r:1 c au s e I bE' l ·i r:w C'! thE!

Premier, with his legal background, would be very interested. It was something terT:i.blC!. l c:wr sut'E! hE! wt11. do that, Mr. Chairman. I will not get tnvolved tn it bE!CaUSE! of the sensitivity surrounding it. So, Mr•. Cha:i.rman, we want. to knor.~.J all of lhis. ~\IE! lArill, l dlfl SUr''E!, ask questions of the Minister· of Educdl:ion (Or·. ~"llan·en), anol·:her· finE! gt~ntlernan, I under·st.i:~ncl. And :r. <:llfl :;ur·o, f"'r·.

Cha.i.r'llhHl, the for"mer· Ptnes:ident of thE:' NTA lAJ:iJ.l b t~ db ·J. t~ ·i·. o 9 .i. v r:.~ h i 111 so rilE! a-ssistancE:~ whr:1n we look dt th.::1 r·e:;ol.uL.i.on!; pi:l.:n;~~d <:d: t~.he;:! r·ec<:!nt annual genEH'Cil rneeting of thP NTA IJJhtM1 :>i"lt::! '~li:~:; Pr·es i.don L:. L~e look for·r.uar·d to gover·nrnNlt fulfilling 1: h t·} :; t::! c o rmn.i. t:·. m (:~ n t s .

I i::\ rn s u r• E! that a former president of the NTA, lAJi.th anol.:ht::!t' fot'uH :~r pr ·esi.rlt Hlt of the NTA, sitting beh ind the Pr·e:1nrLN·, would neuer· let down thE:dr• colleagues in Education and not fulful the r'Elsol.utJons pi::\ssed at thE! annual general rnE!E•ting . The teachE!r ·s out thtH·~~ have (:Wery right to E:~XpE!Ct, Mr". Chair"man, that. thE!SE! i:IJ.JO hon. pE!OplE! t~o.dll certainly fulful that commitment. MR . HOGAN: ( 1 naucLi. ble) . SOME HON . MEMBERS: H E'! a r· , h E! d r· ! MR. TOEliN : P lac E'! n t. J a , M r· . hirn qu:i.t :H IJ.JC;!1l.

F.::tct, T hdd I:·. hE! r'ly fr·.i.r:!nd fr·orn Chair·rnan, I knot..u A:; .;, md-i".t·.:t:!t' of oppor·tunity one t ::i.JTJP of nornin<~ting i\lo. 2 :~ 'Jlj .

the Minister of Environment and Land~ for President of the Federation of Mayors and Munic ipa lities when the member for Placentia was nominated by someone el~e, and I believe he lost by one vo te, did he not? AN HON. MEMBER: ( 1 n au d :i. b 1 e ) . MR. TOBIN: T. should not have no1n.i.n.:J.t~:!d h:i.rn! 1 do h a v e an i~l :; :; o c .i. i:l 1.: .i. o n , an ctffjl]ation with SOIIIE:1 of those people, very credible, very honour'able people , ~11" . Cha.:i rruan, and I will be one to g.iue fcli.r mcn ·ks when I SE:1E:1 then1. I am going to watch thc,1 per·fot'ntiill"lCt1 of l::h(:!

M i n i s t e r· of T r· cl\n s p o t' t a t i o n . I f his arrogance today towards the people of Bell Island is any indication, Mr·. Cha.ir·man, '"'e 1.vi 11 nt:wer· know what this $180 million is all about. I am sure the member for Bell Island will be calling him aside . later · and telling him, you know, 1 That is not l: he way you t~ r· e a t p eo p 1 e ; thE! people of Bell Islcmd do not dE!SE!r·ve that type of tn:1atrnent fr·or~~ yoiJ as MinistE:H'. 1 I am confi.de:1nt, Mr·.

Cha ·i.r·man, 1-:hi:l.l". l:he ruember· fol" Bell Island will be call. i. ng UH :! r...,·i n·i s LEH' oF Tr·anspo1··tat:.lon behind thE:1 cur·taJn and sayi.ny, 1 Li.sten, we are dei:tl:i ng l.IJith human beings over· t: h ~=! t' e , p C::! o pl. e 1~1 h o d r· <::~ i. ~; o l .:1 i: ''! d i:1 n d 1 H:~ e d ad H q u c:* 1: E:~ f e r· r· y s e t' u :i. c e s . Do n o l: d ~HI y i. l:: l: o 1:: h u m . 1 T h d. t .i. :; what I think Uw rnerubet' for· BE~ll T s 1 a n d tAl i. 1. J. b (:! :,; a y i. n 9 L o 1·: h 1:1 M i n :i s t e r· of T r· a n s p or· tat ion .

That · i. s IJJ h ,3. t he s h o ul. d s i:l y to h .i. rn . ·r h ~=~ Ministel" of Tr·ctn spoJ"tat:ion should know the difference of that because he represents a district covering the whole South Coast, whE:H'E:~ ther·e is isolation and a fair' c::tmount: of fE!r·r·y sc-n·vice . lh! L 75 May 29, 1989 Vol XLI should not be so lax, Mr. Chairwan, ·i.n his att..i. tud~~ and should be rnore considerate towards l:he peoplr-1 or Bell Isli:tnd. Tt "is almost despicable, Mr. Chairman. There are other areas. We will 1~1ant to knO!AI, rJ!r•.

Chainnan. whether the Rural Development i:l g r· tH~ me n l7. j_ :> .i. n c 1 u de d .i. n t hi s . I know the minist er will be v er·y a c l:: :i. v C::! 1 y J n v o 1. v E:~ d .i. n :l t b C"! c au s E! it is so important to rural i\1 ~:11Ai f o u n d l d n d , ~; o .l. 01 p o t"t: an t l:: o rn y d i s t r· i c t , l o hi s d i s t r· i c t and to o L h t:! r· c o n :; l~ . .i. l:.u li! n c i. r:! :; l: h r' o u g h o u t. the Province. That is very Jmpod:.ant. ~~t.:1 1~1.i.l.l. bE! looki.ng, Mr. Chai rmi.Hl, to see what type of cornnd. twenl :, al thou9h HH"! M.i n.:L s ter· of He:1alth (Mr.

Decker·) is not het'C::1, is ·i nvo 1 VE!d ·i.n this for· thE! health CiH'e system of our Provinct1. We wet"E:1 told dur·ing the E:1lE:1Cb .on campaign that cost 11.1i 11 not be-?. a factor in bringing the health care system :i. n this P r· o vi n c \::! up to the stand~rd that it should be brought up to. We were told that, Mr. Chairman, and 1.11e will be looking to soe 1.vhat par ·t of that is included in the estimates, for the s·i.ck and sufFE!t··i.ng of this Pr·ov"incE:', Ml". Chair·man.

WE:1 will be looking to see i.f the commitments are fuJfilled for c h r· on .i. c c 1:-1. r· u c C::1 n l. e r· :> 1:. h r· o l.tg h out t h i s P r· o v :i n c e t: h i.\1 t h 1~ v r.::~ b E:~ e n PI'Ofll.i .:;H d by lll<::111J~)l'H'~ oppos 'i.h'!, r.JJr'. Chai r·man . W~::1 w:i.ll bE ' J.oo ld ng to !)(:18 .i.F Lh,:·ll: J~; f11l.fi.llc~d. T..-1 t-:h<:! rldlll<::~ of fa .i.r·nl:1SS cHid balance, WE:1 1.1dll r·ernind you of Uld l: a:; tAll :! ll., tAle IAI i.ll. be look .i. ng to see if that is . fulfilled. MR. CHAIRMAN: H1c,1 ho n. IIH~IIIbl"H ' 1 s t i~r1e hd s e laps E!d . MR . TOBIN : No. 2 R7S

Mr. Chair111r:tn, J. :;hall 9(:0!1: bat;k t:o :i.t in a m:i nute. MR. CHAIRMAN : 'fht1 hon . l:he Pr·<~S i.d(:O!tll~. of Tt't1dSttr·y IJoar-cl. MR. BAKER: Thank you I Mr. Chcdr·nran. first of all I would likE:1 to say to rrwrnbers opposite that tAle wot.tld like to give them as much tirnE:1 as they need to ask lhe questions that they want to ask in the sense of rc~a s onabl enes s .:tnd fa i r·ne s s dnd so on. I arn glad to see that there ar·e sornE! quest. i.ons conriny from members opposite. I would like to, at !~.his point, deal with a couple of them and bring us up to date .

First oF all, the mer11ber for· Gr·and Bani< as k E~ d how long J s t h ~l In l E:H' i.111 Sup p 1 y s up p o s e d t o 1 a s t . The r· e t.a.ras OV(~r ~~700 mi.l.li.on .~llocab,!d to last until ctbout the end of May, and now there .i.s ;uwthe;-· e:unounl· :, c.\ littJe over· $4-00 rn:i.llion supposE:!d 1·: o l. as 1.: u n 1: J J. db o 1 t 1·. l h t1 {:1 n c:l o f July.

Thfl r·eC:Json thC:Jt ther·e is Lh .i.s .i.mb<'lldnce 1~.ht1re .i.:; bet:au:;r:! i:l 1 o t of t he he Cl v y e x p t~ n d i t u r· e s a r· e at UH>. begi.nn lng of Uw yt:'!<:H' and, ther·efor·e I t~.rher·eas it l:ook $700 rn:i.l.l.i.on for· two months .i.L l.a.rlll. only take $400 miJ.lion for the nE!X1: t.wo rnonths. So we project that thE! budget sho uld be finished although you can never re.:tl.ly say with CE!r'tainty - by the f:1nd of July and, who knows, with the kin d of austerity meas ur es that this goVE!rnmE!nt is bring ln g i.n 1naybe it will last a bit long er than that. BH_HON.

ME~_BE..!~.: What sort: of rn~~asL.tr't->.s? MR. BAKER: -W.eJ.i--:-ir-; cutting back the staff in rni.n'i.stot·'s offi .t:e:; at ·Jd :;o on, l76 l'-1i.'J. y 2 9 1 19 g 9 Vol XLI .i. n:; l: t! d. d of h i:\lJ .i. n g s ~::wE! n o t' H :L 9 h t or· nine or ten or huenty employE:H:!S .i.n .:\ uri.n.i.:; i:t:H'' s of'F.i.C(:O!, we have one or· two, these kinds of rrtt1 .:1 :; 11 r· e :; .

Another question that was asked, and i:H.:J~'l.oi.n by lht1 mmnber for· Gr'and Bank and I believe one other· Oppos:i.t·i.on rnembet· ment'i.oned it, was about the Hansard from last y~:!ar, iHH .i I i:ltrl noi: sur·e if he quoted me but he quoted the Oppos ·ition last year as wanting details in the Interim Supply. I j u s t want to ex p 1 d :i n to Hit:~ k e .i. t clE!ar to members opposite so they understand what we are doing. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. BAKER: ------···-I ant serious about this. I am not l:r·y:i.ng t:o bt1 Funny abort l: Ul'.i .s.

I. f tht1 budgE:1 L ·i. s br·oug h L ·.l n dnd th«=Hr InbH'im Supply is e~skE!d fot" l-. o k C:! E! p ~~ s go i. n y , U1 Cl 1: i. s o n e situation tMher·e I belieVE:1 yotJ can q u .i. 1: (£! 1 !::1 g .i. t j. ma 1:. (£! 1 y a s k for · ur'i. n u t e dt:1tail because tht:1 budgE:1t has already been presented. This case is slightly different. The b 'Ad 9 e I= i s no l: t' e ad y , h a s n o l: b e ~H1 pr·e sented, and you ali know about the fu!>-:> Upal.ong t.~o.rL th budget 1eaks and all this kin d of thing. We:1J.J., r·i gh t nov. J we have to be d b i. t caref ul . I explained that t.o rnembE!r's oppos'i.t:e.

WE! hc:Wt"! t:o be a little bit. careful about wh at we say. w(,1 t.a.d.ll giv e as much ueta i.l as we poss ibl y can without interfering wi th tha t budget process, but it is an entirely d iff E.H '' (,Hl 1·: s i. t. u ·l t i 0 rl . s 0 I lJ.JO u 1 d ask members opposite to rea]ize ·1-.hat 1 knout t:hut they dr·e comparing apples and orctnges. A question Oppo:; .i. t:i.Ofl, No. 2 by the Leader of the 1:. h r·) mt'! 1nLH '! ,. fur · B a i. (;! R76

Verte - Whlt:e Bay: He ha.d qui tC;' a. bit to say and I always enjoy 1 i. s I: e n i. n g t o h i rn s p e a k . A f t e t' a 11 thE:~ show was over, he had a really serious concern her e and I will try to deal with it. It was the differentiation between current and capital in this allotment. I will say to the Leader oF the Opposition that I will have a lot of docUinen l:ation her·e, .~nd the pr·ocess has taken tirue and so on, but I u.ti.ll ensur<:~ l~hal ~ befor e Uris is finished I will outline for the hon . gc.H1l-:l1·Hiltilrt i:l b~ )i :b~ t· br·eakdown of i. he uu-r-ent and cap ital .

Th e wcruber· for· Elur·:i n - Placentia W <:~ s t ( M r· . To b -.i. n ) ;:1. :; ked .~ 1. o 1: o (' que sti on s, luany of them in a rhe l:or·.i.1;4'll 111anner·, ·llr1d I u1oul.d J.j ke to sa y to hint tha t many of l: he que ~• l: i. on:.> h t:1 as b H.I 1.\l .i.ll. b ~ dei:.l] t t.u:lth in the budget. because the y wer ·e tno re of d gener' <:ll nu tur ·e r·a the r· than spec :1 fi c questions about Inl::er·irn Supply.

That was gen erally the nature of the questions he asked. l-Ie made one co1mnent that ( cannot help but comment on : he wanted to know about the rur·al developwent agreemen t and whether that was included.

I cannot help but make note of the fact that this is the sa me ag ree utent that during the election the han. gentleman oppos i.l:e announc ed \J.lilS a. lr· ,~a dy si gn ed . lie went th r·oug b the pr·ocess, at ·. a ru r·al c:leval.op1 nc ~n t 111ee t:in g :.in Gi:Hader· I believe, of annc >ur 11:.i.rig H1ct 1: -.i.l : tJIOt .lld :>oon be !;:igned, and thAn the next day a p r: e :> :; r·~~ J. ~~ ·l ~; 0 tva :> i. s :>t. l c.-) d s r.l y .i. n lJ thc ~t ~ t was si gne d .

Nov.1 tha t wa s 111y und f'Ji":> i:,:lrid i.ng , and .i. 1: IAi iiiS l~he und e-;r·sta nd :i r1g of. people invoJ.ved, S<) I could nol ·. h~l.p bui ·. po.i .ni : thai : out. ()nyw<:~y, hE! had 1...77 i:l. nUinber· of dt'l::! l:hl:! l:ypl:' May 29, 1989 UtE~ q u e s t 'i o n s of ques l:.i.on:;, Vo1 XLI because they wer8 general ln nature about intended programs, t:ha t 1.11 i.l.l be C:Hl SIAJE! r(;:d i. n the budget, I have no doubt.

They uwr·e r·eal.l.y not specific qUE!st·ions about the Inter·im Supply BilJ . itseJ.f . tn clos·i.ng T IJJoul.d 1 i.ke to say to the members opposite, we will take nol:e of your· questions. Wo IAidnt. to ruakf.~ sur'E:1 that you have i.:~mplE:' l: .i. we l: o E: x p r· E: s :; your· o p i. n ions . WI-JE:1ther they be of a political nal·.r.tr 't::1 or · nol ·:, :i.l: does not. matter·. It is your· time to ask qtH:1:;U.ons .i.n l·hi.:; :;upply d<,~baL:t•, and w~~ u.1iJ.J <:~tternpt to suppJ.y r·ec:~~;on.:tblE! <:ll'lSliJ('!t'S as Far· as lAI('! p 0 5 5 :i. b 1 y C iHI . ~~R . CHAIRMAN : The i·Jon .

Lhe tfll :~TtlbE!t ' f<n · i"lount Pear·l . · MR. WINDSOR: fk. Chair·m.Hl, fit·st of al1, I cetnnot he 1 p but say how con c EH'ned I arn that th0.1 Mintster· of FiniHlce is not bei.ng allowed, by thE:~ Pr·ern:ier, to spE:~ak i.n thls dE:1bat.e. As the Leader of the Opposition so correctly dMd so clearly pointed out, this is absolutely and t.ota11y unpr·ecedent .E•d, Lhdt !::he Minister of FinancE: wouJ.d not ·i.nl:.r·oducE: hi.s T.nt.t ::r·.i.tn ::>uppl.y Bill, and thus far he has madE~ no con l: r· .i. b u l: J o n 1.: o L h i s i lou s e .

I cannot bE:1l:i PUE! that her·e lAW i.ii"E', L:h~::: d;~y !·:h<:d. r.nh::r·i.ln :3uppl.y ·Ls bE:dng .int.r·oduced into the Hou~,;E:1 of t1:>Sl:~t1Jbl.y, dr1d ·i:hE! f1l'i.n .i.s hn ·· oF r i n i.HJ c e has s t. ill not s p o k tHJ . The ~;u1n h;i:;:ll of h.i.~; conl :.r··.i .bi ,Jl.: i.on l:o this HOUSE:~ todi'!Y IAICtS to /"Bdci d ~; ·t.di.f.!fll(·::ni ·. l'.!;u ·l.i.t:!l' .i.n l.:hu cidy pr·epi.H'e~d by his offic:iaJ.s. And he n t:: ~'! d rl o l: L d k E! c r· t:! d i L f o r· n E:~ 9 o t i at i n 9 t hat , bE:~ c au s E!

I k now full IAIE:~ll. ho1.v +:hdt: gcH:•s; 1::1-w credit shouJ.d go to the Deputy r·i1 .i. n i. s 1: f:: r· o f F .i. nan c (;: , t: hE! As s .. i_ :; L d n t No. 2 rn7

\ "" Deputy Wall, r~Jn .i.stC:1r of F"i.nance, r~r . tlw Dil"ector· of Debt ~J1cHl.:t9t!ment~, 1..11ho, no doubt :., CdlriE! .i.n wi t: h t h a t. d e b E:! n t u r· e i. ss u E:l . · (l n d i t .i.s cl goocl bond .i.s s•.1::!. :'h UH'! 0 p p o !; l t. :.i. on c r') t.:i c o n F l n a n c e s o qu lt~ kly po.i .nLe d oul .:, !:h~-:1 rcilc!: l:hdi: we r· e c: e i v e d such a favour· a b 1 e r· ate h a s no 1: h .i. n 9 1: o d o •~1.i. t: h [··. h e cr·edibi1Jty of t.he govE:n·nruent 0 p p () :; i. 1:. 1::1 I ·i. t: h i:l. $ L: 0 d 0 (AJ i.

L h t:I-H;! fiscal ruanagernent t:.his Par·ty shoWE!d dur·ing l~he last number· of year·s. SOME HON . MEMBERS: Hear·, hC:ldt'! MR. WINDSOR : My concern, Mr. Chairman, is this : Wh at will be our credit ra ting nex t ti me? What is the reac ti on of the bond Hla.r·ket.ing agencies, thr:1 cr·edit ntting a.gencles and the financial institutions to statements made by the Pr·erni.fH' tAJhen he says l·:hal. : he ruay not honour· guar·antees made by U1e prev:i.ous gover·nuH- H II:? T. krlOIAJ for· a fiH:t., Ml" .

Chainuan I that t-: h o s u a g en c ·i. ,,~ s an cl t h ·~ 1: bank :; :i. n Canada, let alone f:i nanc ia 1 .i.n:;LJI :.ul:.i.on:; dbr·oad o:tnd l:he cr·8 d i.l: r·aU ng agenc:i es abr·oad, ar ·e c o n c <:1 r· n ~?. d abo u t: 1: h ~~ c r· f:'l d .i. b i. l. i. 1: y of th:is govel'·nrnent. oppositE:~ as to uJ~H:! l:ht.H' or · no 1·. i:hey ci:l.n bl:! de pen ded upon to fu] fj 11 thC:~ f i. nan c i.~ J. o b 1 i. g ,:~, U . on s t h d L !":.he y ruake on behalf of thE?. people of N ~wfo und l and •Jitld Labr·ador ·. ~'\lha 1.: ir upa ct wil l that have on us trw ne xt ti. 1t1e t.ue go to the-?. bond lrliH' k e l:: to t ry to raise funding to finance wor ks i n this Province?

Why ·is the Minis ter · of FinanCE! not allou1N:l to adcir'ess th~?. S <?. qu estions ? Why is he bE:dng si lence d? Whe n is budget day? Is he go ing to tE:Jl l us whe:1r1 budget day is goi ng to be? Wi.ll he tE!ll us that ? Ho w lo ng are we going to have to wait before we get a L.78 May 29, 19H9 Vol X I.I budge!-:? Coni.:i"<H'Y l:o ~d · .• ,d:l:11flenl- .:; HJddl;! by thE! Pr·erniN' pub1tcly a fe1.1.1 weeks ago I~ h o:~ i: 1·: h (! r· f:! •~1a !; no IAJO r· k don~~ on 1.: h r:~ budget I thM'C:l Wi::ts a gi"E!i.":!t. deal of •~Jor·k don~~ on 1:he b1.1dgel:: befor·e this gouC:1l"nnwnt. left office. SOME HON .

MfMBERS : I lear ·, ht:!i:l.t'! t-1R. lfHN .9SOR: I can pl"oduce the docume:'nts on capi.tc:tl IAIOt'kS, thai: lilY col.lOi.'lgU(:'S have bE:1en r·efN-ring to today I to say tAJha t tJ.Jd te r· and s E?.tAIEH ' pr ·ogrc:mJs and what road progr·arns arE! being r·econunendf~d by thE1 officials.

ThE:l.Y we:1rE:1 donE! two months ago, and •.u h y h a s 1: h 'i. s y t)V e r· n m C:1 n i: no t. c:t c t<-?. d upon it in the la st three weeks so th ai ~ con sl:r·uci:i.o n activity ccln mov e a head in this Pr·ovince, so th.:t t fH llJ i. n e~H' L ng cornp.:tn i.e s can get work, so that thousands of Nf~l.ufoundlandf'!t':; can gE~t. sotr1e ernployrnent befor·e the:~ snotAJ star ·ts com:i.ny aga .i n dnc:l Uw cons t.r·uc l:·i.on seas on is ov eJ"? Why will the y not t't1l.na ~;~ :! l:hosr! proje.:l :s, l'-1r ·. Cht.'lir·man?

Hou.1 mu ch mo ney is .i. n c l.u c:l t:~ d i. n 1·. h i. •; I n t: ,~ r· .i. m Supply B j J l for· cap i t a 1 wo r k s ? I wo u J d :)11\_:jge:; 1: nol:. V~H'Y Iil llCh. T. L1l0t. t1d s u g g e s t no t v f:1 r· y ru u c h . T h e r· c-?. i s only $400,000 there. T would suggest that is br·ead and buttE:OI'' Htonr:~y i:.o kt:!Up U!3 go i.ng, l:o p. :~y t·.h:c! public SE:'rvice over· the next numb"1r · of li.JUC"!k:; until t:h~:. budgc.;!t gets thr·ough. That nteCins the r·e w.i.ll be no rnoney av.:ti.lable u ni:i 1. thE! budg(:1t goes through.

And if t.his gover'nlilE!nl: thin ks l:hdi: the budget is going to go thr ou gh 1.1.ri. Uw u t. d l.;! U1 i 1. EH:I s c r· u t i n y , t h e y have c.:tnother thi nk co m.ingl beca use tAlE! ar·e go 'i.ng to exa1ni.ne it cH ld examine it very ca re full y . And l~hat lriE:1dn s l::her e 111ay not b<-?. any construction acti vit y in this Pr'OV "i.nCE! rOl" 111aybf:! dl"lO l::hf:!r' hAlO No. 2 R78

1flonths, b~;:~caUSE:1 .i.L lflilY take Uh'l.l: long to go through the budget exerci.SE!. MR . FLIGHT: Shame! MR . WINDSOR : llow much monE!Y is i.n thi.s budget: to pay severance pay to those good public servants who were thrown out the door unceremoniously by the P t' c,1 uri. e r· 1.~.ri tho 11 1: any explanation for· why they had been f:Lr·~:!d? SOME HON. MEMBrRS : II c-:1 ,u ·· , he a r· ! t\.1R. L~ CNO! ")O R: llow mucl1 rnonc~y is th:i s Inte:~riru ~3uppl.y for · i:h<:\1:., r·'ir'. Ch.:li.rllli:ln? i\Jo doubt tht"!!"e lAI<·H·e good seuEH'ance pay rrll:! rd: s g i. u u n .

Th <!tl: .i. :; t~olhd 1·: yo 1.1 .. IAIOU ld call fi nCHl cie~J. r·e s t r-ed n t . Now, r.k. Cha:ir·ruan, lE:~t rne ask a quest .. i. on of 1·. h 1;:1 rr· e1n.i. C:1t', .i. f ht') ever· g E.~ t s to his feet . Has h c-:1 now gi.ven up his secret salary? Is he still being paid the secr·et salar·y that he r·eceiued lA.Ihen h1-'! IA.Ias Leader of the Opposition? When he stood here and defended his secret salary he said, 'I am not in conflict: of inter·est, bE~cause t dlfl not a member· of the governmE:1nt. ' HE! i.s notAl the Pr·e1rrier of l:his Pr·ovince.

WiJ l hr::~ now tell us who pa.i.d LhaL sal.ar·y so t.hal: 1/Jt-:! can know who hi:tS th(~ Pr·t'>-mier· in their· p o c k e t:? ~~ h o lJJO u l. d p a. y h i. :; s a. J. i:lr'IJ ? SOME liON . i'liFMA E R::> : !lear·, hE'!i:ll"! Mf~. VJI~JI'):")OI< : (.)nd how is the:~ Pr·e:~nrj _<:~l", if he i!; no1: tJl-:!1.: -l:.i.n'd hi.s Si.·\l,'ti"IJ flklljbe he;! .i.!; -· 111aki.ng up fol '' that. now? HE.~ s i.'t i. d h 1;0! 'i. s g o i. ng 1:. o s I'! Jl. h i. s house,~. Is hE! :indli:H:~d go:i.ng to sell h.i.:; hou:;l;O!? DcH~s LhaL lllt!dll t·.haL he:!

L79 May 29, 1989 Vol XLI .i.s go i.ng t:o 1nou~~ ·i.nl :o l'-1ount. ~3c""i.o house now? Will hE:~ -tell us that, r11r·. ChaLt·lnan? Is t.hal: h·i.s gr.'llne plan? The poor Premier has to give us his salcu·y. HE! cannot gE:~t the mOnE!Y thr·ough the:1 backdoor no1~1, he has to go to Mount Scio house. Is that what he is propos ·i.ng to do? Mi:lybe i.f ,:~ny of them ar'E! allowed to get to H1E:dr· f~;::et l::o spc'~d.k, Mr·. Cha'i.r'lfld.n, we will hear some of those answers. SOME HON. MEMBERS: HE!dt' 1 hE:1cH'! MR . CHAIRr.1AN : The;! hon. the r'l .i. n .i. s 1: 1:! r· of Tr·ansportation. MR.

GILBERT: fhdnk you I r-~r . Ch.:t ir'llh:Hl. Il:: sec,nn::; Lh.:1l: nll;!illi :H~r·:; opposil.:c,: dt'E! ruor·e IA.IOr'l"ied about t.hE:: str·uc t.ur·e of our· I!JOVI·H'I"IIIIC·Hd: t·.han i:!-lf'!IJ cH'C;! about the s u b s t a n c E! of I n t t' r· i r11 ~upply, and LhGIJ se0m to take a gr·eat dE!light in rn~Hltion:ing U1E:• d.i.ffer•c ;nlcf~ .Ln for·rnat.

Well, I will tell them that we have new cook:; so Lhet'IO! ar·o n~~lAI lc~\\.A.IS how we do th:ings over· herE:~. we are not directed by decisions and the way that as to And t: hE! those p e o p l e Fe l L g o v EH'l'llil E! n t s h o u 1 d be run, because the people of N(;!tA.Ifoundl.:uld mdd~ ~ <'.1 deci.sion about that on April 20 i.Hld they gctVE:1 us 1: he n1<:1 n d d tc-'! . sow~ HON. r"'Er'lflU~s : He:1ar, heHr! MR . TOBIN: The majority of Newfound1ander·s Vl) 1:ed rroyn ~:): ) i.v~ ~ Cor1 :>tH 'Vdt lve on Apr il 20, and do not fo r·g et that. AN HON. MfMIJER : T h d 1: ·.i. s r· L 9 h 1: . Mr~.

GILBER T: No. 2 R'79

Look over her(:~, g~H1I.:le1n~Hl. Here,~ is where it counts. SOME HON. MEMB F.: I~!): HPiilr'' hHiH'I i-1R. TOIJTN: On i:i poJnt of or·der·, Mr·. Chair·man. MR . CHAT rmnN : A po:.in-t of or·der·, the->. han. t.he:~ IIWJIIblH' for· Hur·i.n- rl.aconU.o :l West:. r~R. TOR TN : May I remind the Tr·ans por· La t:ion thi:l 1:. gt:Hltl ernen sit. on this House, .;~nd l·w should corurnents accordingly. SOME liON . MEMBERS: Hear·, hear·! MR . GILBEin: · Minister· of IIIOt'C::! Uliill'l sidE:~ of -t:he add r· E:~ s s h .i. !> I do not think that is a point of order·. r-1R. TOBIN : Oh! It :is not impot··tant? MR ..

GILBERT: I do noi: s~:~e anyorH:! · Oh, I i.'llll sor-ry! Yes, l do. T dm sor-r-y, l!Jf!l·ti:l.~~HI,;!n dl 'ld lddy. AN liON . fi-1EMB:O:R: Two lrtdj E:~ !> . i"' r,L:__.Si.LLJ: F r~ T : 1.t"!1". ute s,:~y, r"!r·. Chdi.nn<:tn, t:hai·. r hear-c:J t.he nH:~wbel" for· Mount Pei.'U"l (Mr·. ~Hndscr·) l".:dlk ,::1~wul: h.i.:,: cap:itetl 1/JOI"ks pr·ojt~cts, which h(:~ sd i.d he had a copy oF and IMh:i.ch should bE:~ i.HHlOUriCE!d irnruir1ently. The only thing [ will tell him about his capital 1.1.1or·ks pr·ojects is thE!

SdlrH:! th Lng IAlt:! lol.d h"i.rn IAthen we wen~ in Opposition, that it was no t a p r· ·t. or· i.l: y l. i. s t. 111 d de u p by !:. he ci v :i 1 s er·vCint s, it was a poli ti ci:.ll l. ·i. s L . T h ~~ p r· 'i. o r· i. !: y l. ·i. s L IAii:l s l.80 ~~ay 29, 1989 Vol XLI thrown out. That "i.s the reason there is not a list there now. f·~R. ~'IIJNIY>OR: Be car·eful or I might ta.ble it for you. MR. GILBERT: That is the poj nt . pt·oblE!nl:>. MR . WINDSOR: You havE:~ no I might table it for you . MR.

GILBERT: You cd.n. -TablE! .i.l:! l hdvu asked thE:~ civil servants to givE:~ me a p r· i. o r· 'i. !:. y 1 i: s l: f o r 1:1-H:! p r· o j ~) c t s · that arE~ going to be addr·esSE!d in thE! Dc->.par·twent of Wor•ks, Sc'lr·vj.cc -?.s and Tr·anspor·tat:ion, and thE! cHnount Ls covEH'ed ·i.n l::hc~ Inb:H' i.rn Supply that we ar'E! as king for right noLAJ.

The two departments are not combined yet, but what it boils doLAm to 'is that ~!i23ll- Jni.ll-Lon .is being asked for to carry on the operal:."i.on of Uw Depar·t.Hl~Hlt.: of Wor·ks, Ser·vices and Tr·ansportation d t.lr' J n g H1 E:~ · i. n t E! r· i.1n ; u n t i. l. s u c h timE:~ c.-..s the budgE:~t is intr·oducE'd and pa:;: ;u d. As my colJei.~glH:~, the Govc->.r'fiiE!nt l I o u :; C::! I.~~ .;1 d t! r· , p o i. n 1: t:! d <) u t , b c-?. c '"use of th(:~ fact thE:! budgl';:~tary pr·occ->.s~:: .i.:; in pldcr:.~ r·.i.yh L I'JOIJ.J, i·:her·t:! dJ"e cer·tain things 1/JE:~ cannot say.

We IJ.J.i.l.l 1:~}11. you, •~s T i'ld<H' .i.ndi.cdl:.c~!d t.o ·the pr·ess, that ther'E' IAJ:i.l1 bE• a p l" o <J .i. n c .i. d J r· odd 1 s p r· o j E:! c l introduced. Once this Interim ~·;upply B"i.l.l ·i.:; passHd, UJf'!f'l ·'! will be a pr·oj ect intr·oduced. I can gi.ve you l::ht'! hE :!a di.ngs, but. I cannot tel1 you the aruount l~ntil i. 1·: ·t. S p d S $ E! d . 1 IJ.J i l. l g i U E~ y 0 Ll t: h e headings so you w:ill knotJJ. I 1/JO u l. d not. IAJd n t. to k (~! E! p you i. n t: he dar·k ovE~r thE~r·e. WE:~ wer'E! in the d.:~ r k for· s E:! v E~ n !:.

E! en year's o v EH' hE:H'E:~. so I would likE:' to tr·y and t:!nl.i.ghl :f~n you a bi.t. UndE!r No . 2 R80

p r· o v .i. n c .i. i:\ 1. h _i_ 9 tu.~.ti:l y s you a r· e taJ.king ctbout things like i.rnpr·oul:!tfiC:~nl: and con:>l :r·ucl: ·i.on, r·oad and tw :ldgC:~ r·ehabilitat.:ion, highways and causeways. SGr-1E liON. MF.:MBERS: Where? Where? MR. GILBERT: These ar·e t:he gener·al headi.ngs under I nte r·im SupFJly and you wi 11 fin d out tJ.Jhere i.n due course.

I 1: wi 11 be a 1 i s t that wa s est.:lb1.i.shed and put : there by l~he ci vi] ser van ts , a pr·iori ty 1 is t b.Hed on l:l·1e fair·nes!> and b·:l1ant:~ ~ that we have been talking about for some l:i.1ne, nol : l:he po1 .i.U .c .. ·\l. ljst thiilt LAias put for·ward by 111e111be r· s o p pt ) !) .i. 1:1:1 IJJh r.Hl i-. hey IJJIH'<· :! over her '(-!

I and Newfoundlander-s be. i.n9 br·:i.b< :ld ~~~.I.H 1 1:ht:dr· Oi~JI'I l:o:1x doJ J iH'S .' lrJhc-Ht the tinte c:orues I LAte IJ.dll b~ l t;nly l:oo u1 .. i.l.l. i.r19 ·1:1) a n n o u n c: e o u r· 1 i s t , a n d :1 t wi 1 J be a fa .i.r· 1i.!;L. ( I.U .i.J.l, :;.i.~: dObln I'IOUI and lP.'i: members car r·y on. MR. LANGDON: r-1r· . Cha i.t'lllcln. _MR. CHAlRr1_AN: The hon. thC:~ rnernbEH' for· Fortune - l-fl::1rHri. t.age. MR.

LANGDON: I am eagerly looking forward to tl'le for·ty -fir·st sess ion of the Hou se of As se mbly, because it is go ln9 to he a wewor·abl e one, and T und erline the word 1 rnemor·able 1 , in that IIJE:~ w·i.11 Sl~e i.il. I'I!'!.!I .JJ ph :i.loso phy in the gover·n ing of this gr·er.1t Pt'ov :i. nG E-:~ of our 's. '(f !:hal: i.s so , cH1d the hon. 'l he Pr ·emier, tl'le 1110- tllbi .H' fo t' fl,:ly of T.sl. dnd :; (Mr ·.

Well!> ) has s;:dd r.o, and I hone st ly •:l n d s i. n c <·.~r· e 1 y be l .. i. ~~ v ~~ Ul. :\ i: he i. :; ::1 !IIcHt of his wor·d, i:l rn1:1n w~ -L h i.nt :eg r· i.l y i:lr ld ra i.t'I'H ~!):) I ~ rtd o:\ llliHl who hu t a gEHJu.i.ne dE1sj r·e t(J be rdi .r· ~:!) dll. rega r·dl e:;s of I. fl:l Mr.1y 291 1989 Vol XLI p o l .. i. l: i. 1: a l :; l: r· ·l p e , t:fHHl 1: he g r e. at distri ct of Fortune - Hermitage will be ea ger ly awai~lng the pr·esentation of the budgE!t by the hon . l:h r:~ we1nbar· for · St . John 1 s Centre (Dr. J<i tchen). I would be less than candid I Mr.

Chair·man, if I sai.d that ttd.s great district has been treated unf~ir1y since Confed era tion regardless of the political s t: r· i p e .

We have bee n o n the government side in this distr ·ict and we have be en on the Oppo~it io n side I both provincially and f <HI 1-H ' a l.l. y , d n d ( tltl .t G 1-. r· e i. -1-:t-H ' a b -:1 we~ have not got out" fa ir· share · for HJ.i.s yr ea i: d.i .:>l :t·.i. cl:. t a1n not be ing facet io us · wh en I sa y we l_,o:lgt H' l.y o:\UJ i:l.i .t: 1:1'1<.: 1 81 .td <,3ei:. tn l:hi.S g r e 1:1 t d i s tr i c t t h e r· e a r· e s o rue s ~) ') 1::~ n l:1~ ~:~ n c orn u11.1 n .i.l. i.e s , i:ll'ld 1,1.1! -i\ h.Zt v e sorue of the best fi~herrnen ar 1d J.ogycr·: ; i.n i:h.l:> rr 'OU i.rlt:t::!. . :f.

CO T(l f:) fr·on1 a corumuni ty wher·e ther·e ar·e liOO ~H-?.Oplr::!, i:hc-:1 ntO !> 1: .i.ndu:; l:r i.ous ot1 this Island, and l:ho s e 600 p~opl e have no water dnd sewer, they ht:~ve no · fir·e pr·otec tion, th ey havt'.! no r·t ~c: r· ecti:J .on, l::he y h.3.ve no playgr·ound and they drive on th e oldes t gr ·a uel roa d ·ln l:h'ls Provinc e