PROVINCE OF NEWFOUNDLAND AND LABRADOR HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY Volume 1 Number 29 4th. Session 34th. General Assembly VERBATIM REPORT WEDNESDAY.APRIL8,1970 SPEAKER: THE HONOURABLE GEORGE W. CLARKE

April 8, 1970, Tape 382, Page 1 -- apb The House Het At 8:00 p.m. Hr. Speaker in the Chair: RON. J.R.S:{ALU700D (Pre:nier): Nr. Speaker, I have been advised by Hr. George Hobbs, chairman of the Newfoundla .nd and Labrador Power Co:nmission that the sixth generating unit has just gone into operation at Bay D'Espoir, completing the Bay D'Espoir Hydro-electric Developnent for the tir.1e being. That developr.ent no~ has total generating capacity of 600,000 horse-po~er which gives it an adequate and entirely satisfactory reserve to take care of peak peiods.

An additional 100,000 horse-power is avail through Bay D' Espoir by developwent of the upper salmon river if the need should arise in future. Bay D'Espoir has more than doubled the total generating capability on the island of Net~foundland. This capacity 'IJas only 400,000 horse-pot.,rer before the first stage of Bay D'Espoir was completed in 1967, 400,000 horse­ power. No1.1 it is 1 millioH horse power, an increase of 150 per cerit.

The developrr.ent at Bay D'Espoir has cost approximately $170 million dollars including the construction of over 1,100 miles of trans~ission lines which provided a trans island grid, integrating all existing transmissio'c. and distribution .::facilities 0~1 the island. Part of the financing of th $170 million, part of thL; came form a $24 willian gr·ant from the Atlantic Developr:ent Board of C-'mada, and by the end of 1969, as a result of this I investment by the Government of Canada, the Government of Canada had already receive<! back $20 million t:1r;;>ugh taxes and other factors.

Part of that A.D.B.grant, narnely $4 million of it, was used for frequen~y standardization work in the Prov~nce. That is conversion from fifty cycles to sixty cycles. As a result the whole island now is on sixty cycle power with the exception of certain portions cf the two paper mills, North Star Cement in Corner Brook, and the industry and town of Buchans with these sole exceptions. the first construction on the Bay D'Espoir project such as, access roads, and other preliminary vork began in 1964 and got into full ~ving the following year.

Over the years since, the development provided a total of 2,000 jobs and paid out an estimated $40 million in.w3g~s. }~ny of those who were engaged in building Bay D'£spoir moved ~n to Churchill Falls. Bay D'Espoir was thus thc·tr.:~ining eround that qualified them for simi.lar work 1688

Ap~il 8, 1?70, Tape 382, Pas e, -- apb on the great Labrador Hydro-elect ric prcj ect. The statistics e>n jobs aad wa;;cs for the C.:)ttStruction phase of Bay D'Espoir are entirely apart from the figures for permanent staff of the Power Com~ission and staff of othcrs engaged in power generation and distribution on this island. It is esti~ated that these, that is the Power Commission a~d others are providing employ~cnt permanent steady employment for 1, 800 persons today 1-·ith a combined ~·'age bill of $10 million a year vhich is approximately the equivalent of the paper mill eJ,,ployn:ent in . Corner Brook.

Bay D'Espoir supplied forty per cent of the islands requirements of electricity.in 1969, forty per cent. Tne proportion is expected to go to fifty per cent next year and in view of this the sixth unit is absolutely essential in periods of pe<Jk load. ~1r. Robbs infon:~s ree th<lt the total of 6,000 horse-po~er from Bay D'Espoir wil~ ensure ~dequate service for all customers of the Newfoundland and Labrador Power Co~mission until early in 1971, then the first unit of the 400,GOO horse-pot~er thermal generating station at P.olyrood will be in service.

This first unit at Holyrood providing 200,000 horse-power is to be in operation by next December of this year. A second unit of the sa:ne ca'Pacity will be ready by April lst.l971. I am sure Mr. Speaker, that all hen. members will take enormous pleasure from this news that I bring the House today, PRESEXTI~G P"ETITio;;s; HON. G.I.HILL (~!inister wit:1out "ortfolio): Mr. Speaker, I beg to present a petition on behalf of th~ people in the southen1 part of southern Labrador. The prayer of the petition is th~t the present ferry se=vice be e~tended during the winter months by tr.eans of a plane service. .

Tlds House will recall Mr. Speaker, that some six years ago ~hen this ferry service was first inaugurated I did s~ggest at the tim( that maybe it would be carried on during the other months of ~he year by helicopter service. Now this may not be feasible, but since that time I have been working with the idea that a plane service would take place in this part of my district.

Now far. this petition is signed by 660 people involvin<; the co~munitics of,L',~nse-~u-Cl~ir, Forteau, L'Anse-au-Loop, English Point, Buckle Point, L'Anse-JI.!!Iour, C<:1pe Charles, Pin~are, West St. }bcliste and Red Bay Covering a dist<J.nce of some sixty niles. In vic-~ of the reports that we have 1GOS

April S, 1970, Tape 382, Page 3 -- apb been hearing the past day or so, I do· believe that we do have a goo_d chance of this petition co~ing to fruition. I support the petiticu Sir, ~hole h~artedly and ask that it be received by this House and referred to the department to which it relates. ·:.:/. On motion petition received: MR. 51-L\.LL\WOD: Mr.

Speaker, it is vith very great personal pleasure inJecd that I support the prayer of this petition, and in doing so I would say first of all that all hon. members of this House or nearly all are • .,..ell a'Hare of the fact that it was the agitation of the hon. gentleman who just sat do~;n that caused the Government to put the ferry service there in the first place, the one that is there. by boat. The hen. gentleman received the plaudits of this House vhen the service was a:mounced by the Government as a tribute to his efforts to get it put into effect.

At that sa:ne time that the hon. gentlema.n agitated for that particular service he agitated also, for an air-bo~e service bet~een the northern pa=t of ::e·.dcundland and the souther.1. part of L<lbr::tdor. I bcli<.!ve that he in bri!!ging this p~tition fro::~ 500 of his coustitaeots to u.s h~r<:;. today in this House, I believe that he is dci.ng no more th3.n merely anticipating, or these 600 constituer.::s of his are doing no mvre than &lticipating so~ething that is about to happen. Because it is the progr~ uf Her Hajesty's Govern::~ent in this Province to :-ave that service brought in.

It is true that we vant the GQvernment of our natlon to pay for it, but: it i<: this Government that -wants it brought in and -we have been agitated int·:> that by the hen. minister who represents that part oi our great Province. With a heart and a half I support the prayer of this petition. MR. BURGESS: I would also like to support the prayer of that petition for a good, for possibly t~e past year in any speech that I have had in ::~is Ho~se I have e:.1phasi;:ed the fact that the need of the people on the south and the north coast of Labrador are gre2t indeed, and the provision of an air service for this.

section of the Province would be greatly ~elcomed by the populace, by the people •Jho live there, and no-where was it more evident, the need for this service than a short 1o1hile ago when a conference was held in Goose Bay called 11 L."ll.>rador in th!! Seventies." Upon my return to my o;."'l district, ten days after this conference h~d concluded I met some people in Goose nay who I-::1d come in from the coast and vho ,.;ere still in C".oose Bay 16!iD

April 8, 1970, TApe 382, Po~c 4 -- apb because of the fact that they had been unable to get back to their homes on the south coast. This ''as ten or thirteen days later. }!R. HILL: I think that was weather conditions was it not? MR. BURGESS: Heather·conditions and the fact that the facili::ies were not there.

It was on account of weather conditions, but there is no question in my mind that the prayer of this petition, that no ''here in this Province is it more needed than on the south and south coast of Labrador, and I support the prayer of the petition because it is so vitally necessary, and because these people are living in a sort o: political limbo, where they are mid-north, they are not far enough north to benefit from the programs that apply to northern areas of this vast COLL."'ltry of Canada, and they a!:'e not far enough south to avail of the benefits that come from living in th~ south.

They are in a limbo, a political limoo, and this would be a small measure to alleviate some of their difficulties. }lR. CHALKER: MT-. Speaker, I would like to add my support to the prayer of the petitioners. The hen. rnernber who just presented the petition and I worked closely en the original ferry. He did I must say most of the work, but I was fortunate enough to make the first trip on her, and at that time 1 think it was at Blanc Sablon ~e landed, the original trip. The first Tequest that we received was for the continuation of this service by air during the winter time.

It is only right Sir, that those people who are completely isolated in the winter time should be given this service as quickly as possible. I eight also say Mr. Spea~er, that the ferry service • between St. Barbe and Blanc Sablan and For::eau have proved one hundred per cer..t successful. I add .3!1Y support. 16D1

JW April 8, 1970 Tape C383 Page I NR. ~1INSOR: West. His stateocnt of the f a ct that peo?le could not get to Labrador South after the Labrador convention is not corr e ct. The Laurador Afiairs n1ade a plane available to the clerg}' <nen and other people of Labrador South. But the weather was do"-'Il and it was do;m for more than ten days. Now Sir, if this han. gentleman in his wisdom can do anything to corr.ect the ;.•eather in Labrador South or any part of it, then I will say he ldll perform the task in ~1hich he is trying to do.

Not only separate Labrador from Newfound­ land, but he ~o.•ill control the eler.; e nts as well. MR. BURGESS: Point of order. I do not think that this all egation is called for. This is completely uncalled for and I would ask the Speaker to request t he han. gentleoan to retract that statenent. t!R. SPE.<>.KER: \,'hat is the hon. gentleman' a point of order? 11R. BURGESS: I beg your pardon, ?-!rr Speaker, on a point of personal privilege, I would respectfully ask the Spea ker to make the han. gentleman retract that statement that I aw trying .to separate tab::ador from N'evfoundland •. It is uncalled for. NR.

SPEAKER: This is a difference of opinion betw~c~ t~o individuals again. 1 do not think it was an allegation that the hon. me~her was tryi~ to maKe. The han. Minister for Labrador Affairs can exnlain that I think, to the satisfaction of both the members of the House. !!B-_,__ll)3:SOR: Yes Nr. S!'"Caker, he is certainly going ~bont tryil"!g to se;>arate politically, let us put it th~t way.

Now Sir, I have the greatest of pleasure in supporting this petition, because he•e ~e have a small stretch of water, not more than eleven or !welve ciles senarat~n~ the coast of southern Labrador, from th&.: of the Island of ~evfoundland. And frcm N-ovewber until the next June, those oeople are literally disconne~ted from the Province o; ~e~foundland. This should not be in this day and age Sir. I ••ou!d strongly recor.ur.end to the han. ~tlnister ~ithout Portfolio who Presented the petition, that in addition to advocatin~ this air service.

He should also advocate the extension of the ferry service; and for a more modern ferry, to operate that service •• I am convinced that the ferry could operate if properly constructed later in the Fall and e::>.rly in the Spring. This Sir, if ~o~e are to combine that part of our Provinc:e ~o~ith : -:e~o~foundl~nd, then it is through transportation, 1GD2

JW April 8, 19 70 Tape li3SJ Page 3 NR. S:·!AT.LI,"COD: Our govern:;>ent cannot: do it. HR. CT',OSiHE: It is the government's policy tc ask Ottawa to do it M:r. Speaker, not the Government's policy to do it. But ~ith that exception I certainlv support this prayer of the petition, and hope that this service ~1ill beco!Tlc a fact. HR. A. J. HURPHY (Leader of the Opposition): ~!r. Speaker, I too ~.:ould like to rise and support this petition, perhaps there is a double-barrel meaning in it - if it came out that everybody SU??Orted it but the Leader of the Opposition, the first thing they would say, "c were agin 'em.

But as far as transnortation in Labrador South - I mean if 1"'e can get the mail up to Port Hope Simpson from St. John's in fourteen or fifteen days, I think it ~rill be something of a miracle. The correspondence I have in the area has taken some eighteen or twenty days to get a l~tter from Port Hope Simpson. You write one in the meamohile and then you get one back another two .weeks after, and say "look you did not anstver: my letter two weeks ago, and there is five letters on the way now, and~ have not had a satisfactor; ans~er to either one of them.

So in these days of rapid com~unication when we can put a rr.an on the moon in a couple o£ days, and we cannot get a letter to Port Hope Simpson in eighteen days, I think it is time for something do•m there. I do not know if we can give the han. member some win~s to get ~ack and forth for us, but definitely transportation is b~dly needed, and I am sure that }!r. Peddle and all his efforts will ~et the support'of the hon. member sitting in the HaUse and the rest of the members for Labrador to further the great work pe is trying to do for this great district of Labrador South, West and ~orth. MR.

SPEA..'<ER: It is moved and seconded that this oetition be received and referre.:l. to tr.e deoartr.1ent to which it relates. Those in favour "aye"' contrary ,, ., nay , carried. Notice of Motion: RON. L. R. CURTIS ~~!inister of Justice): Hr. Speaker, I give notice I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a Bill, entitled a Bill, "An Act Respecting Tne Organization O?eration Functions Powers Duties Rights And Pri~ile~es Of The Constatulary Force In _Newfoundland." liON. /I.IDF:~ ~l-\'.n::r:y ntinistcr of Fisheries): :tr. Speaker, I give notice th:1t 16!)3

• JW April S, 1970 Ta·oc CJ33 !'age 2 and it has to be done. ~!r. Speaker. 1 take ~reat pleasure in SUj)porting the petition, HR. CROSBIE: Hr. Speaker, I rise in support of this petition. It had not been rr.y good luck until last through the district of Labrador South. And if any area in this Province that I havP travelled in that is the most backward so far as public services are concerned of any. It is not necessarily because of any gQvernment policy, but bec a use of geogranhical location. But Hr.

Speaker, I have never come across conditions as I witnessed them in that district that reminded me so much of the feudal ages. I had not realized be fore there was anywhere in the Island where men did not know until the end of the season ~•hat their fishery supplies "'ere going to cost thell' .. And did not know until the end of the sea son what price they were ~oing to get for their fish. I thought that was something that was gone out forty or fifty years ago, but it still rema!ns true,in the district that the han. ~linister ~ithout Portfolio represents. It should end with the ne~ salt fish corporation.

I do not thir.k it is true all over the Island, that the fishermen do not knovt what they are paying for fishery supplies. So Mr. Speaker, this is a district that because of its geoRranhical location needs a great deal of attention. I have never flo~~ over another district that vas so scenic either :!r. Speaker.

A.'ld if the means of trans- portation back and forth to Labrador South could be improved, I do not think there is any question but there will be a great increase in tourist busi~ess of people travelling there fro~ Ne~foundland. k~d certainly in the wintertime they need this air tran;portation that the hon. member's petition recommends. But Mr. Speaker, the han. Premier when sneaking to this Motion, ~aid that it was governrr.ent policy to provide this air service, then went on to say that it is the government's policy to provide it with some other government's money.

How can a government have a policy that it is goin~ to carry out certain matters ~he; all the money is to come from some other government? That is not government policy. It ~as stated that the bon. Minister without Portfolio has agitated fo~ this air service to be started. Sut I do not doubt that he has, but he should also agitate with o~r government that our govern rr.ent provide the money itself to provide the service, if necessary. If it is p,ovcrn!:lc:n t policy, then our ;:overnment :nus t be oren a red to find the money for it, if Ottawa will not. 1GD1

JH April 8, 1970 Par,e 4 I will on tot,:orrow ask leave to introduce a Bill, "An Act Respecting The 'Harketing Of Salt Fish." ANSl-IERS TO QUESTIO:-lS: HON. J. R. S~!AT.U.'OOD (Premier): Xr. Speaker, I ber. leave to answer Question No. (109) on the Order Paper of February 27, in the name of the hon. member fer Burin. Nr. Speaker, I beg leave to circulate the correspondence in question in connection '1-Iith the Resolution adopted by this Ho.use on April 24, 1968, two years ago, relative to the recognition of rights of the Pentecostal Church, and requesting an amendment to the British North &nerica Act.

I attached a copy of the Resolution, a copy of the letter from you Your Honour, as Speaker of our House to the Govern~r of Newfoundland dated October 11, 1968. The reply of t~e G overnor, October 23, throush his secretary, Captain Shea. thr·ough No excuse me, the letter of the Goverr.or · C;;.ptain 3hea to the Secretary of the Governor General of Canada, dated October 23. A lette~ to Captain Shea, secretary to the Lieutenant Gove~or froM the Under-Secretary of State for the Government of Canada, dated Novemher 5.

A letter from the Superintendent of the Pentecostal Asse~blies of Newfoundland, Pastor Bursey to me on the date of !\ovember 29, 1969. ~!y reply en the date of ~:ovember 24, 1969 to Pastor Bursey. A let!:er to the Speaker from the Deouty Ninister, Mr. 01anning in my office, January 6, 1970. A letter of the Speaker, Your Honour to Nr. Channing on the date of January 12, 1970. A letter of Nr. Channing to Your Honour, January 29. A letter of Mr. Andrew Chatwood. Executive Assistant to ~!1:. Jamieson In Ottac:a dated ~!arch 4, a letter again of Hr.

Chat,.,·ood to the Executive Assistant to the Hon. ~!itchell Sharp, C,.n,.da's !1inister of External Affairs d'lted :iarch 4. And a letter of Hr. Chatwood to the Departwent of Justice ·in Ottawa on the date of ~!arch 4. And a letter of Hr. Chatl."Ood to Mr. Channing on the date of Harch 24. Full correspondence Hr. Speaker is hereby tabled showing exactly "What has haPPened. 16!)5

April Sth. 1970 Tape 3S/~ PK- 1 HR. HIC!VlAN: Mr. Speaker, does he p:!:opose answed-:16 part (2)_ of 109 nar:rely; Ple<1se table the reply if any, that is of the cor~espondence received from the Goverm~ent of Canada. HR. SHALU700D: That is vhat I have just tabled. I just tabled all correspondence that we have, there is no correspondence that we have, MR. UICK.'~ru'i: Is there any fro:n the Govcrn;r.ent of Cc.nc>.da? MR. SW\LLI-iiJOD: lbere is no correspondence, 11 NO 11 correspondence whatsoever :l.n our possession froG\ anyone that is not new t<lbled.

I have tabled all correspondence fro~1 the Governr..ent of Canada or anyone else. MR. HICK}!t\J.".;: That means there is none. HR. S}!ALL\WOD: There is, there are several letters from the Government of Canada there. MR. HIC.KHAX: Letters from Andre~<" Chatwood, llR. SHAL'.I.:OOD: Jl..!ldrew Chatvood is a part of the Government of Canada, and so is the Executive Assistant of the Minister for External Affairs, sc is the Executive A~sistant. of the }linister of Justice; so is the Executive Assistant of His Excellency the Governor General of Canada.

These are all parts of the Government of Canada, they are not ministers, but they are part of Canada's Government, and these letters have b:'!en send by directions of the I:<.inisters. And the letter from the Executive Assistant to the Governor Gener~l is send by direction of His Excellency the Governor General of Canada. So they are from the Govcrnncnt of Canada. FURTIIER ANSl,'ERS TO QUESTIO:·lS "MR. SHALL1\00D: Hr. Speaker, the answer. to Question No~ 244 on the Order Paper of. April 6th. in the ~e of the hon. the memter for St.

John's West asking f~r the name of the rr.embers of the staff of the Department of Eco~omic Development. I table here~ith. Their namas and their s~larie3. Quest:!.on No. 254 on the Order Paper of April 6th. in t::te name of the hon. the member for St. John's West, giving the names of people ~he are on my staff, as Premier of the Province, with their titles and their salaries. RON. WILLIAN J. KEOUGH: (HINISTt:R OF LABOUR.): I beg leave to table the answer to question No. 150 on the Order Paper of Harch 5th- in the name of the hon. Leader of the Opposition. liON. E. H. RO!lEF:7S: Hr.

Speaker, during the period \.-·hich the House has been recessed, there appeared in t~c press, stories attributing questivns to the hon. Leader of the Opposition. And mat I say how pleased ~e are to see him back. and of course hoY sorr; we were that due to the fact that he was not vith 1GDG __ ,

April 8th. 1970 TApe 384 PK- 2 ~s, ~u~ ~v a vcr~onal cause. The han. gcn:leman has noc tabled the ~uestion Hr. Speaker, but if the House ";:ishes the :Information is ~n order, I have the information on that toatter which he did raise publicly, at least up until today's Order raper, Sir, he has not raised it by means of a question. But, if it is in order Your Honour, I could give it very briefly. HR. SPEAKER: I think it ·.:ould be better left, if the hon. Leader of the Opposition ~ould put the question on the Order Paper and have it done in the ordinary -way. M'.K. WELLS: Hr.

Speaker, I wonder if the Hinis ter of Labour could advise us of that last question, he was referring to Question lio. 150 on the Order Paper of March 5th, Question No. 150 is not on that Ot"der Paper, and Question No. 150 is another question directed to the ltinsiter of Finance, so I am not quite sure what the minister just tabled. ~~- Speaker, the question should have directed to the Minister of Labour, and I answered it in place of the Hinister of Finance. }ffi.. \.."ELLS: The question ~1as ·in connection with the 1<ork:r,en 's Compensaticm Board, on the Order Paper of r!arch 4th. MR. KEOUGH: Harch 4th. is it?

MR. \..~LLS: Yes. MR. H.R.V. EARLE: Mr. Sp~aker have I your permission to draw your attention t:o an error in the Order Paper of today, on question ~lo. 304, which is directed to the Hinister~of Provincial Affairs, that is obviously the ~!in is ter of Hunicipal Affairs. MR. JO!il> C. CROSBIE: Mr. ~peaker, nay I draw your ~ttention also to Question 275 o~ the Order Paper of yesterday. The ~~~~t~erais asking about certain rr ships, ~65,000 ton carries it should be, a~1d it is printedlwo 650,000 ton_ carriers:'' And even the Ne~1foundland Government has not originated 650,000 ton carriers yet.

FL~THER ~~S~'1:RS TO QUESTIONS MR. l!AROLD COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, before we get into Order of the Day, I have a question which 1 meant to direct to the }finister of Supply and Services, • in his absence, I would direct it to the hon. the Premier. Arisin~ from a statement made hy the Minister of Supply and Services last week, I believe, outside this House anyvay, outlinins the Governi'lent 's int•~n tlon tc se tu? their own main·~cuance services for Government aircraft at Torb.:~y. I wonde-r would the minister be prepared to take~ the 11oilse into its confidence, and t nble 1GD7

April 8th. 1970 Tape 384 PK - 3 all correspondence, all tenders, all bids, for the various airline concerns, end t;!lo3ther he would he willing to in<11 C""!"" tn th~ l.l,... •• .-~ ·---.... -, will have en Eastern Provincial Airways maintenance crew, hm·1 many people might be laid off etc. ~IR. SPEAKER: A question of that nature should be put on the Order Paper. HR. COLLit\S: Mr. Speaker, this is very important, I have no doubt the Premier could answer this questio':l. HR. SPEAKER: This question could ;;e conveniently to be placed on the Order Paper, and at this time it is not in order. HR.

SNALU:DOD: The hem. gentleman could put it 0:1. the Order Paper yesterday, and get the anst~er today, if he puts it on today, it night be answered tomc.,rrow. Put it on accordingly to the rules of the House,~Hr. Speaker. HR. CROSBIE: ~lr. Speaker, it. is not much point to put dolo.'U questions, if we are not getting many ans~ers. I have a question for the hon. the Minister of Justice. Could the hen. Minsitcr of Justice tell us, t>het.her the Government has directed ~lr. Justice !1ufflin to proceed with his inquiry into the laying off the thirty-tt.,.o police constables in' St.

John's in February. t'hether or not he has been directed to proceed with that, and would the minister tell us, whether or not he is going to atteud the meeting, w!1ich is going to b2~eld by members of the constabulary tonight, to which apparently he has been invited, to discuss various matters with them? BON . L. R. Ct::ITIS: (.ri.:1:STIR OF JL'STICE}: ~,,.. Speaker, I might say that I had intended to make a statement on this matter. Presently, it is not yet re~dy, I may be in a position to make it during the afternoon. If not perhaps, tomorrow. !W. JOHN CROSBIE: ~r.

Speaker, one part of my question there is not m~ch point to it, unless it ~s answered today. Is the hon. t~e minister going to attend the constabulary ~eeting tonieht, which he has been invited to attend? }~. CURTIS: That is my business. MR. CROSBIE: Mr. Speaker, I submit that it is not just the minister's business, it is public business. MR. SPE,\KER: The minister has answered the question. ~!R. CROSBIE: The minister has said, it is not the publics business, what he does in his official secret position. HR. SPEAKER: Order! order, please.

The minister has answered the question, and it is not subject to comment. 16D8

Apri] 8th. 1970 PK - 4 ORDERS OF THE D/..Y MR. CURTIS: Hotion number three. MR. !\PEAKER: Hotion nun:ber threco on the Order Paper of today in the nane of the member for St. Barbe South. HR. GERALD HYRDE:l: ~f r. Speaker, I guess it is so long s:!:nce this Hotiort has been on the paper, I rnay as ~ell read it. It must be a month or more at least. It is to move;

Whereas since at least the yea r 1966 there have been discussions and ne~otiations bet~een the Govern ment of Ne w foundl~nd and the Governrr.cnt of Canada concerning a proposal to create a National Park in the area of Bonne Bay; And l>~ereas there appears to be little progress made to an agreement being reached between the Government of Canada and the Governt:\ent cf Newfoundland with reference to the Bonne Bay National Park proposal, and there have been many contradictory statements issued in connection therewith; And V.'bereas in 1969 the Governnent of t~eo:founc!l=d suggested that the presem:e of Silica within the proposed boundaries of the Bonne Bay National Park req~;ired a dela)• in reachin g agreement with the Covernnent of C3nada en the said Park; And ~nereas recently it has been revealed that concessions have been granted for exploration for oil within the boundaries cf the proposed National Park; And lo.'hereas it appears that t"he Govern!:lent of Ne~<founclland will have to expend some Three Hlllion Dollars to acquire title to all the land within the boundaries of the proposed N~tional Park; }_nd 1-.'hereas it is desirable that Hel!lbers of this Honourable House of Assenbly and the public of r;ewfoundland be ful~y info= ,ed of the position with referem:e to the e-;tablis<m:ent of the Bonne Bay ~:ational Park;

Be It Resolved that this House regrets the failure of the Govern~ent of ~e~­ foundland to proceecl expeditiously with the establishment of the proposed Bonne Bay tiational Park aad the failure of the Goverm:·.ent. to report fully and COI:lplei:.ely to this Honour able House of Asser.:bly and to the public of Newfoundland the facts with respect to the proposal to establish p Eonne Bay National Park and directs the Government to table in this Honourable House of Asse mbly all cor::-csponcence cxchan<;cd bctveen t~e Govcrn ro cr.t of Newfoundland and the Goven1rncnt of C~nada relative to the proposal to cst<1blish a N;:~t:(c.nal rark in the noone nay area. 16!)9

April 8th. 1970 Tape 334 PK- 5 'lnat, tlr. Speaker, is the Motion. Sir, this resolution today, has I ill:agine, stirred r.~ore peciple 's interest around Netolfoundland than almost nny other issue over the past few years.

I believe Sir, that the idea of some form of relaxation to everybody, including fishermen, farrr.ers, mill workers, civil servants and eyen politiana· is uppermost in everybody's mind, al~ost eleven months out of a year, because Sir for the few brief weeks of Sl.!r.'aner that ~"~ live to expect in Ne~vfoundland it is something of a real treat to be able to take our families and relax in the great outdoors. Almost continuously ever the last few years, it has been my greate~t desire to see the proposed Bonne Bay National Park become a reality. So, Mr. Speaker, I feel that I must again give this hen.

Rouse a short explanation of some fo the details of the beginning and of t:he controversary that has ensued since. I do not think I can explain it any better than one of our native Nevrfoundlanders did in the Hcstern Star in March of 1969 and I quote from the article. " A park in the Bonne Bay region has been .proposed by various Newfoundlande·cs since the 1920's. And various civil servants took up the cause in the 1950's and the 1960's, ~ostly amoagst them actually'Dr. Stuart Peters, who was a former deputy minister of Resources. 1700

April 8, 19 70 Tape tlO. 335 Page 1 and it ~·as lar£cly Dr. Peter's co.mpllign on its· beh<Ilf that roused the interest first of the Provincial and later of the Federal Governr.ent. After the Federal Govcrr. rccnt had taken its first lool: at Bonne Bay and agreed that it see med like a place where a park could be developed, they ercployed Dr. \{. 0. Pruitt, Jr. to do an ecolo gical survey and make reco=endations on the area required and the type of r.anagement need. Dr.

Pruitt being the most highly o_ualified JJ'.an in North An:erica to undert ake t his work as he is one of the greatest authorities in the world on the ecology of the northern wilderness. Dr.

Pruitt, at tnat ti~, reco~ended an area of about 1,500 square miles stretching from Goose Ar:c:, Bay of Islands to Daniel's Harbour, and his reasons, Sir, for this recommendation was that the area offered protection to three rate species of animals: the Artie hare~, ~ooclland caribou and the pine marten, included ir. a region with rare plants that are found oo~here else in Canada and offered exce?tional tourist opportunities to motorists, campers, hikers and canoeists. rne area that Dr.

Pruitt reco~ended and that the Federal Govern ;r.ent requested ~· as refused by ~he Provincia_l Govern:r.snt, and they offered instead a small area just n~rth of Bonne Bay. ·.The Federal Governnent rejected the Provincial Govern~ent's first offer outright. The two Governments never did ccffie to an agreeme~t on where the park boundaries should lie.

The Provincial Govern2ent su~se~uently agreed to part of the area south of Bonne Bay.requested by the Federal Governr-ent, the land between Trout P~ver Pond and Socth Arm, which is stil: being considered f.~ci lately, of course, it is nov in the main park, if it every happens, of course. This "sec~mdary area" a'e the time is a:.out one-third of the rec;,uestEd area south of Bonne Bay, and inclufes the rare plants mentioued earlier, but does not include the range of the Gregory Plateau caribour herd, ~hich Dr. Pruitt regarded as important.

E~en though no agrec~ent on bound z ries have been reached, the Federal Goverr.ment continued its sur•eys. Then in September of 1968, the Provincial Govern~ent discovered a deposit of quartzite on the north shore Df Bonne Bay stretching ur into the mountains, a distance of about five miles. They took continuous sa ~ ples from the out-croppin~s and had t hem essayed at St. John's. They proved to be, on the average • abo:.:.t 96-pcr-cent pure, and in 1701

April 8, 1970 Tape no. 385 P<Jgc 2 some cases better th<m this and they de ci ded to dr:lll for fnrth<'r t<><:tc: , " Th~t vas the end of that article. Mr. Speaker, this sa~e a~ticlc goes on to explain about the characteristics of quartzite and its importance to the industrial pla~t at Long Harbour. But we have yet to learn the results of this final test and although the people of ~le•,..rfoundla!1d \.'ere pror:-,ised -this report by Septcr:bcr 30, 1969, ,.,.e arc still t.•aitinz to hear ~rhat this Govern.:-.ent intends to do with this area. Mr.

Speake:::, at this stage of dcvelopEent, the Federal Governl!:ent decided to retire from the area without consultation vith any of our authorities. This ,.as the first of many frustrations and statements Hhich befuddled the entire population of :;ewfoundland. The present administration felt duty bound to investigate the possibilities of any oineral wealth ..,.ithin the park area and this action I agree with, but how long must we wait for that information? ·Hr. Spe<!.ker, th~ great contr·overy began then between the hon. Minister of Hines, Agriculture and R-=sources and Dr.

Pruitt over the value in dollars it ~rould bring 5.n!:o this Provir.::e. I do not t!d.nk to t!-.is day thdt anybody is ccuvinced that a mine will produce anything like the benefits of a ••ational park. But it is interesting, Hr.

Speaker, to relate some of the state~ants about what was holding up tha park such as this one frow the hon. minister as early a~ January 17,1969: "word of the discovery at that tiDe, which was silica catr.e at the very moment that a conf~rence of Federal and Provincial officials,being organized at my request for the pur?ose of finalizing certain aspects of the Gros ~!o.-ne National ?ark proposal." ~>'e heard nothing then about oil concessions.

Of course, this staterr.ent by the hon. minister: "the exploration to determine the size and value of the s:!.lica deposit should be finished by early Sep:err.ber and by that time, we will know whether the silica is wor:;h going after or not." Another statement in ~~arch, 1969, by the present minis:er: " acquiring the land for the Federal Govern~nt to take over and 'develop ~·ould cost the Provincial Governm~nt $2 milliolJ.." As we already know from tabled ans~ers in this House, the minister has now given us the figure of $3 million. In one year, it has gone up by $1 million.

In the S<lr.1C breath the minister <:.~ondcred, if it would be best to 1702

April 8 , 1969 Tape no. 385 to use this money to develop a Provinci a l p:!rk •. As late as hecc:: •ber, 1969, the present ~inister ~as stati~ g that. He ~as still trying to cl~ar up all the details th.:1t ;:auld lead to the dev e lop:::ent of th e par! , . He said that the Federal Government was still busy doing survey and other preparatory work. Mr.

Speaker, as I have said before, ::he min1 .ng surveys, as any sensible :Ke~;foundlanders realizes, had to be done, and "'e appreciate the great intere s t that the Govern r.,ent had in looking into the pos s ibiliti es of any r.tineral deposits "'ithin the land that they would be giving over to the Federal Govern ment. The truth of it was, Hr. Speaker, and I have said this before that the Departnent of Mines, Agriculture and Resources should have had this "'ork completed long before this . This 'l-Ies five years that they had b'en nc;;otiating on this land.

Therefore, the proposals for this n~tional park had started, as I said, five ye~rs before 1969. TI1ere was little reason to believe that t~is could not have been done at any stage within these years. Mr. Speaker, we are not the only group looking for inforu-ation on the national park. The Federal me6er for the district, !:r. Jack }!arshall has been ~epeatedly asking the Federal Goverr.ment questions ccncen1ing the development of this park, and he has been continually getting the sa"'e information and that is that the Provincial Government is still debating on what the boundaries sho~d be.

Therefore, it has been the contin~ed answer from the Federal Goverrne n t that · nothing can be done until this land is turned over for dc::~elopreent by the FedP.ral Governnent. Now, Mr. Speaker, we coce up to the present matter over the . last conth or so. ~!r.

Harshall in Ottava h3s stated that the Federal Go".lernL~ent's ~ational Parks Bra:1ch has budgeted $1,971,000 to be spent in the area during 1970-71, and it is interesting to see that this iteo was only listed as a new highway for Gros }~rne, so that it seems that even the Federal Government were not too anxious to ~~ke known that they were going to have this money avail a ble for the next tvo years. After further digging into the Federal Hinister 's budget, ~lr. ~!arsb;oll now fi~ds that the monies e :n:~..:nkeci, totals something like $5.2 !!'.ill ion over the next 1703

April 8, 1970 Tape nD. 335 five years and that $1,97!,000 ~vas listed only as road const:ruction to upgrade hit;lllvay severity-three to national park standards, as well as, twenty miles of internal park roads. This, of course, ~wuld be a total of almost fifty miles of nation:J.l pa:rks standard hizhHay fron Wiltondale to about £our miles north of Cow Head. ~lr. Speaker, I 1.:ould like you to lis ten to some of the other monies to be spent or l-isted to be spent.

Alr::ost i!!'r.ediately, there is $384,000 of ~'llich $250, OOG is alloted for land acquisition and the rest for fencing, landscaping and survey work that is involved. ~!r. Speaker, as late as February 20th of this year, Otta~a was still saying that an agreet:'.ent in principal has been reached to build a national park in Bonne Bay, but nothing further can be acco~plished until the Provincial Gove~~ent hands over the land to Ot ta~,;a. Mr.

Speaker, surely this shows that the Fe:ieral Govern~ent, who have budgeted this ~:.oney for 1970 have every intention of proceeding to~1ard the d~velcpc:cn: of ::.is pao:k in goo<! faith. Thel·cfcre, we feel there is absolutely no reason to keep this inforrr~tion fro~ the people: Sir, it has been the practice of authorities both Federal and Provincial to c~dertake projects in the outports of Newfoundland without prior consultation.

I an1 not fully convinced tP.at this has been entirely the case with t:te t'..:<t:i.onal park, because ve ha·.re been !!lOSt fortunate in having in having an organization in the district of St. Barbe South, which has g:o~~ in strength over the last few years and has been instrumental i~ pursuing all aspe~ts of the district's needs. I am speaking of the Northern Regional Develop~ent Association and especially its executive. The people and ~e~bers of this association have continually discussed the present situation, but they have not sat back and waited for things to happen.

TI1ey have been trying for quite sorue time to develop within the area, the type of assistance 1.>hich o:ill produce good results •o~hen this national park is developed. Tht.! following, I would like to read, Sir. It vas sent to me by the L:on·~ One Chairm:m 'lo.'ho is in Bonne Bay and \.;ho has been responsible for much cf this info:::r.:ation. It is titled,_ "Tourist Inforrn:1tion Sche:ne for Bonne nay", and l; would like to read to this hon. l!ouse some excerpts 170J

AprH 8, 1970 T:rpc no . 3S5 from it. It is called, "The Tourist I:evclcpr-",cnt Ccr."-uirt:cc of the Steering Col:lr::ittee of Zo~e or.e of lL R. D. A." They have drawn up an overall scher::e for the bcginnin;;:; of a g'..·ad•.!al build-up of touris.:s into a ~:tj or factor in this area. They area at -prese.-,1: 1cing considered ·. 1705

ApdS, 1970 Tape no. 35G rage 1 extends from Hiltond.:!le to i:ood Point e.nd Curzon Villo;;e and over to Trout River. This arl2a•, has been famous for its u.agnificent scenery since the last century ar.d is acknowlecir;ed to be outstanding in E:Jstern !.;orth America.

The natural environ:nent and the pict•.;resque scttlc;;oents offer a '~>'ide v:niety of attractior.s as they stand, a~ong ti:cro the follo•:ing: hiking, hill-walking and rock cli.:-:bing; s;>ecial interest for botanists and geologists; ideal sailing and boating on the two big inlets and on three exceptior,<J.lly lovely ponds; good fishing on the ponds and rivers, also on the open sea and in the inlets where both mackerel and tuna abound in the tourist season; gaoe of all kinds is to be seen on the hills; in the winter the scenery resembles alpine country a~d offers fine touring on snow-shoes, skidoos or skis and all these pursuits are already available to the enterprising and e~~erienced but ~.o fa-.: ::here are no facilities to enable the average tourist tc enjoy them.

From eA~erts in the iield, from numerous publish2d reports and from first hand experience of other places, there is no doubt that the de•elcp~ent to the rnaxicum of the tourist potentials of an area acts as a stimulant to all aspects of life, industry and trade. The scheme to develop tourism will tie in with any other industries that ar~ developed i~ the district, with reciprocal ben~fit. An exception ~auld be an industry that destrvys or polutes the natural environr.ent and r.ak~s it unattractive to visitors.

The cost of helpit.g to develop the t<>urist industT) is negligible comFared to that of any other industry. It brings income to the people b9t:1 directly and indirectl} and this is widely distributed throughout the arc~ and stays in it. Lat~r developments by co~~ercial conceras T¥ill add valuable jobs but the majority of their income wil.).. go to the O>mers wha many .net even be in the Province. If local corr~unitias and individuals are encouraged to provide all the facilities they can first, the develo?tr.ent of co~mercial enterprises will not completely by-pass them. l!r.

Spea!:er, I am still continuing from th<1 t

article fro~:~ the N. P..D .A. group. The scheme is designed to involve the communities as much as possible and to increase the number of visitors gradually so that the sl~ills required for catering for them \fill be gained by experience, .,ithout the need of much outside help. If the "Community School" sur,gested for this winter co:::es into 170G

April 8, 1970 Pace 2 Tape no. 336 study sot.le of the important aspects of catering for tourists. Sir, I would like to outline the four headings: 1. Public R~lations and Information, which is so badly needed all over this country: (

a) A siople b.-ochure wHl be prepared and-distributed. (

b) Road signs will be set up at key points. (

e) A central infontation centre vill be set up, associat<:d with gift and craft shop also sponsored by N.R.D.A. (

d) A large scale ll'..:?.p outside this centre will shot~ details of trails and other facilities. 2. Increased ~ourist acco~odation: (

a) At least one trailer site will be set up. (nearest is at Deer Lake). (

b) Hare horr.es will be encouraged to get a licence to take visitors. (

c) At least two picnic sites will be set up, one at Trout River Pond and the other in Bonne Bay. 3. Increased facilities for tourists to enjoy the natural amenities: (

a) Trails fer hi!dng ar,d skiidooinc; will be improved anC: uoarked. (

b) At least t~o boat launch ra~ps are needec, one on Bonne Bay and on on Trout River Pond. (c) }!ore boats will be wde available for hire. (

d) Highway viet• points will be cpened up and the Highway Dejlartment will be asked to try and make stopping places for cars. 4. Special events to a~tract tourists: (

a) Skidoo.and ski clubs ~hich already operate in the area, will be approached and if ?ossib!c weekend meets arranged. · (

b) The discontinued reeatta will b~ re-established and helrl early in the season and held in conjunction with a fair of local crafts and produce. Interesting events and good publicity will be arranged • . (

c) Following an earlier regatta on Bonne Bay, one would be planned later on Trout River Pond. That is the end of their statement, of that part of it. If these simple plans prove successful.in the coming year, that is this year, more a1:1bltious 1707

April S, 1970 To:1pe no. 336 Page 3 ones can be developed in the future. Individu3ls will see ~ays to add to their income by pl·ovidinc needed services <>nd thus the area will gradually achieve its Ol-In independent tourist: industry. If and '-'hen the Bo!-~"1.e Bay t:at:ional Park becomes a reality, the co=unities lo:ill be in a position to g;:;.in f!.normously fro!'! being on the fringe and being able to offer already .;. ~:ide range of accot;=dation and holiday activities for the visitors." Hr. Speaker, this t-:as signed by R. H. Smith, Director of Zone one. llr.

Speaker, this will confirc "·hat I have said many tiucs that people of this area are very interested in their develop~.ent in the tourist industry. They have held high hopes that this national park -will be developed, and they are getting prepared to give the type of service that all tourists expect. This is the type of people who are planning to give much more than they <Jill be getting out of it and this leads me to discuss some of the statell'.ents that were made in the local Daily 11ews of }!onday, Earch 23, 1970.

I r:ust say here, before I beght, that I am not in complete a3ree~ent ~ith everything in that editorial but as usual 1 value every man's opinion vith relation to the park at Bonne Bay and if I ·may quote, Sir, fro1:1 the paper: "anyone t.;ho h.::s travelled along the west coast from Bon~e Bay north or who h~~ flo~~ over the area will agree at one~, if he has an atom of appre~iation for natural bea~ty, that this could be the lOOSt enchanting natinnal park in the •,;!:ole of Canada.

Moreover, in a world desperately threatened by the pollution of w~ter, ' la~d and air •• It is hig~ly desirable to preserve as r.uch clean open space as ve can for he~lthful .:~s well aesthetic reasons. Tnis is also a srulterialistic 1-1orld in ,,.hich =n' s d""sire for new sources of e:!!ploy'"ent and affluence is in conflict -.-ith his interest in the beauties of nature and the cleanliness of his atmosphere. One of the troubles with the Bonne :Bay park prcposal is that many of its advocates see in it something of both.

They want the park but they consider it as the most imT.ediate source of econoQic gain for che people ia the area. The preservation of an ar~ of magnificent scene~y is associated 'l."ith and argued for in behalf of econocic gain. If this ""ere the only consideration it rr.:1.y be ,Jskcd vhethcr th<:! possibility of an _oil strike is not far :r.ore intri~;uinr; than what r,ood rn:ty be m;:~dc out of a surrancr to-,rist trade." 170~

April 6, 1970 Tape I!O. 38& Par;c 4 ~L. sv~akcr, i cia no~ th1nk ror a mlnute that this state~ent ..,as "'ell thought cut, because I do not care "'hether you have great dreac-.s of striking oil or strikinr; gold, there should be a little rc.ore consideration given to the thought that a natio!'al park '\.:ill produce r..ore: than a surr.r.,er tourist trade. I am sure X:r. Editor - I am sure that the editor did not feel that this is the only th.::>ught behind the building of 'a gre<lt nation::.l park.

He c;ust realize that in I·Jestern Newfoundland as the people in Bonne Bay have stated, we have a greater potential of winter activities than any o(her part of this Island. 1-!c enjoy outi:tgs with our families in the "'i;J.ter, .okiing,or motor tobogganing, much more often from November until}lay than we get out .,£ the two scmr::er months of July and August.

I do not know ''ho amongst the hon. mernbers . in this House h:lve. enjoyed the wonderful pasttir.:e of taking skidoo trips !l'.any miles through the ~·oods, fishing on ice covered lakes, boiling up as the cld Ne•.;foundland saying goes in an area c:-f great ~eauty and enjoying it ;;;ore than any other sur.;!:ler pastime. This is not a rich man's pasti"'e. It is the doily experie-nce of hundreds of fisher:::en and ordinary v;o~king men vho ha'Ve leaz:ned that ,...e have a greater winter paradice tc e~jny ourselves in than any other part of N~rth k~erica exce?t prob~bly in Ldbrador. Mr.

S:>caker, to carry on with th~ ecl.itorial: "there are three main bodies of opinion. There are first those to •hom the p::-eservation of ~he purity and lovellness ~f nature m~st co~e first; parti~ularly, whecc the an~a im:olved is !n mauy vays unique .~..n terms of its essential attractions and its flcra and wil:H:fe. Next are those, and perhaps this is the motive; ting factor of so~e of t~e p~opl~ ~£ the regio~al develvpment association, who see in a part a co~binat~on of :his ~ith a good ceal ~f local cmploy~ent.

And finally, there is a government in a province of very high unemployment ~hich f~els obligated, before !t transfers ownerstip of land to Ottai;a for a national park, to dete~ine if the property contains anything of transcendent 111aterial value." ·Mr. Speaker, I could ~ot agree ~ore with this ~hole statement. I am fortunately or unfortunately ;dthin the group ~o:!'lo see the cocl>ination of the preservation of this lovely part of the count~J and also a great deal of employment for the coy;.;;;uni::ie:; ·~·i:::~in c 'J.c. ; c: r:o:-::irdty of the ?.:.rk. Thts is not .an extremist point o!' vic1.1.

I feel that there. is c 'Place for a 1.1ild.erness 170D .!

(Apt:il S, 1970 ) sectio:1 in thi s p~rk . I n!so eel t hat the -:-c \dll t.e an a =t:a tl:at: can be <icvclo?cd co t ::~:te care of a sre;:u: dc<!l of th~ tou:-ist rade \.-hic h has very lit tlc i:~tcres c in cli::J!ling rnount<J.itts and in nat~;rc st:t.:dy hlonts . Hr.

Spct1kc r, ;:,..;y I quote the end of thi s editorial because as they go on and say: "there is, o f c c.ourse als.:~ a basis for initial compro•:li sc. 'fhat is co c rea:e a park ~it li ir. an acie~u :: te are ::~ in t erms of content <?.nd size •.:ith t he c lear undcrstanci:l.8 that provision for i::s cnlarg ment "1-'ill he satisf ac toriJ y tr.acie. !:1 thi!:: a . alysis o£ t!1c contro-:ersy, the only purpose is to set out so:re o f the tr.ain el~=~nLS that: are inv~lved i n t he hope that it tr..ay be a contribut ion to the present dialogue .

Each i~ter csted group has a cas~. l~nere does t ae oust i ~edia tc, as well as the most enduring val~e _ie? '0 11 , 11: . Speaker, ~l':e thou ght behind this statetr.aut seems to appeal to ev.ery fair minded per s.:>n. The proposed park 1710

Apr il Gt h, 1970 Tape 3 fl 7 .m- 1 ~ .. ,... ., """r••._, ~ ,,. • ~~~= proposed p.nk of 600 square ::dlcs may look very la:rGe right no•J '-'ithin our lifetirr.e but because of the speed of indu,;tr:ilizat:ion I think -Je .1.re heading beyond th.:lt because H is not beyond ":O'f belief thnt in our lifeti r.:e ~e ~ill be looking for .:l.n arcn ••here we can t<:lke our family and spend it beside a lake or a beach. 5ecausc these untouched .J.reas are fast beconing scarce even in our part of the country.\)<; feel t hat the pro-..ision for a'n enlarge- ment of this area would be quite realistic because of ti1e potential for a great tourist develop~cnt and \..'ill be in the whole area of what is now being considered as. thc ·new national park.

As the editor states, each group has a casa and I believe, Sir, that there has been enough infor~~tion gathered from all interested parties within this island of Newf o undl~nd to gi~e the Govern~~nt of this island a~ . idea what the people want. Hr. Speaker, the great tragedy of this whole befuddled controversy has arisen over this oil concession business in the areas of the northern

section of the pro!JOsed national p.lrk, !'rot:~ the !:lap supplied in the ''::vcTiin0 Telegram'; which cm5e as a surprise to many people, wheu it showed that there t:ere at . least three concessions given to N~LCO back in 19SO-Sl-52, t~e whole idea wqich has been confirmed :,y the Federnl Govern::~ent that no oil ri?hts ~ould be considered ~ithin a bo~ndry of a nati~nal park. seecs to have brought this whole id~a back bet'ore the public as just anot~er reason to postpone the develcpmcnt of this area. Well.

Sir. we all kr.'JV t~.e hi:;tory of o,;,l within the Parsons Pond area but we were greatly surprised that any thought would be entar.tained by these people to start development 50ut~ of this concession. We also know that hundreds of thousands of dollars have been spent by speculators who have been trying to find the source of any co~ercial anount of oil. m?.ybe it exists a~ci mnybe as the Governre~nt suggests i~ would be wise to spend more money · to find out if there is any great amount there. I have already stated that according to the ~p this is a small area in the northern

section it would be quite rcasonnble to expect. ·if this area is taken out of the park,th;J.t the area south of Bonne Bay including the Gregory Plateau and running up tow~rds Wil:ondale could be an addition to this park and possibly be of greater interest to visitors than the northern section. 1711 .......

April 8th, 1970 Tape 3?.7 JH - 2 }!R. HYRDEcl: Hr. Speaker, we have heard oore about thr! national perk for the past three \:eeks outside of the Hoc;se of Asse:nhly th~:1 He hnve for the l;:Jst three ycnrs because it seems so str;:<nJ:;e that the hen. 11inistcr of ~1ines and,l~csourscs can give this information "~.'hen we are as kin£; for it since this han. House -has started to sit. The minister has stated in the fifth, in th~ fifth annual ?rovincal.Park's !~orkshop that by 1973 the Covernoent will be able to say the national p;J.rk in Bor:ne Bay exists.

N'ol.', Sir, this seens to be ex<Jctly what we have been asking for. The statcu:ent " This mineral survey tmdertaken Jast su=.er has been completed and ~e 'know that there is a val~able mineral there and so did e'\·erybody else. This does 'not mean that we will exploit it but ;:e had to access ::!.n value all the resourses of the area before t!:H~Y disappeared forever into .J naticnal park". Sir, this is exactly ~o.·hat the minister had promised the people of Bonne Bay.

Unfortunely, he told the people that they could expect the answer last Sep~ember and I do not know abont the big dark secret;, what the big dark secret is. but I think the people of this area deserve at least an answer whether ~here will be a mine or a park or naybe even both. A,eain ve "l."arf! g<eatly su::-prised, Sir, cspe.:ially in Corner Brook T.'hen }~. E. P. Henley, the Tou=ist Development Dircct0r of the Province, told a meeting in the Corner Breck Cl.amber of Cov.m!!rce on March 31 that he agreed ~o~ith a statement last month cf the Resour<;es Ninisttor, t.'.R.

Ca:ilahan, that the Provincial Government would not settle tnr a uilrle=es:> park c.t .Bonne Bay. He said, "At Te-:-ca Nova •;e ha"e some 157 squ<:r:re miles of wilde=ness, you can see it all in two days.· The 500 miles at Bonne Bay is the same, ~ore with nothir.g to do, this is ridiculous." But Mr. Speaker, as thP. paper stated, he h1nted at possible develo~~ent of the entire northern peninsula, not just 600 rn~les and, of course, this came as a surprise, came as a great surprise to everyone in fact but then we felt that as a Tourist Director this gentle~an was only dreaming of what could possibly happen.

Perhaps, Mr. Speaker, the hon. Premier was also drea~ing ~hen on April 2 over Radio Station CFCB, on an open line, he described the new national park as being 1200 square miles, mayhe, of course, this vill all come out in the. h"hite P.:1pc::-,b'.lt I h.:i'JC not seen it yet, vhich will be presenred I underst.:1.:1d and nas uo~ ~~en_prcs~nted by the Premier for 1712

April 8th, 1970 Tape 387 JM - 3 the han. Minister of Nines, Ar:gicultur:e 2:1d R~sources. We certai.:1ly hope, as the Prewicr statad, th<J.t we vill be very ple<J.sed with this information. l-ie are actually, there is quite a bit of infon:Jation on it. We have, Sir, been very pztient]y•trying to get in[or::r.ation and I believe from the <J.:nount of correspondence I have received fror.. th.o P,eople in l·:c<~fcund­ land 'l.'e are now getting at last the infotc1ation •;hi.ch 'We have been asking for. Mr. Speaker, before I finish this p2rt of it I 'Would like to say that if by bringing this before this hon.

Rouse and which I know every hon. me~ber over here -'17111 support, if not in p::inciple then within his o1.rn private tho;1ghts, I feel that I h;1ve done justice to the people I represent and also to the great numbers of Newfoundlanders tJh,o feel that we must try .and protect some of our basic nat~ral resourses so that we can live to enjoy it, and I hope t;1at I have r.ot spoken in vain, Ur. Speaker, to say that I was surprised at this glorious docun:ent, if you ~ould like to call ii: ,that, that was presented here yesturday ~ould be putting it E-lldly.

I have never, Sir, I do not think, gotten mad in my life but I ~as over~c~e actually when I saw it last ~ight. If they called the· Push!e Report ninety-per-cent trash, if there is su~h a thing as 110- per-cent trash that is it because every bit of t'1:1t stuff, Sir, has b~en in the pap~r~ and on the air for y~ars, ev~ry bit of ~t. ~ere is nothing there, not a thi:~g, noth~ng new, n'Jt a darn thing but ._,hen th€:y put it all together it starts to look nice until y~u start to go through it, ~ir, and I spent myst the night, I must say.

Yesterday when the. :?remier said he w.:1s going to reject this contemptuously; '\:e arc not going to get somethi.lg bi:;ger but it is going tc be better." Well ·that is ttJice he made a ~r.istake bec::;use he ha:<> already said it is going to be 1200 square ~iles. I hope it will be better, I have always s~id that I would love to see a golf course, love to see swio~ing pools, parks or little parks within the big parks. I have every thought, Sir, that it· will probably be done because there is nothing wrong with that, I will go right along with it.

But to c:onti::m~ along on these lin"s, that you are not going to get a Gros }!orne National Park, you are going to get something better. We are going to spend $50 million to $60 million, they are not sure, $~0 "'illion do not m~ke much 1713

April 8th, 1970 Tap<! 337 ~~- 4 HR. H'fRDEN: spread it right froc Bonn~ Il«y dovn to St. Anthony and over to the L.2.br.c.dor shore. Yes, the essential cle;:Jcnts of the historic co.J.st proposals thus emerge as foll0\·15: develop:;;~r;t of the Gros !:orne ~ational Park, but also, read on, conclusion of ncgotiotions for est:.!blish:nent of the National and Historical Park at L'Anse Headowg, fine and c:!<J.ndy, very good, Sir, I "Would love to see it, and, of course, the Dorset Indian Sit~s along . the northern coast, developr.:'O!nt of the fisheries, forest, !!lining resourses.

The greatest develop~~nt we can do and the greatest help we can give the fisheries is close that gulf to the dragger situation we have had for the last ten years down there. Sir, -.·c cannot fis:1 in the gul.::, we cannot keep nets out because the draggers arc tearing every~h:lng, they are going to tear up the shrimp becls, they are going to tear up the scallop beds and they are goi~g to destroy the lobsters for one reason only and we, yesturday, heard a great speech here about going out to the Gr:and Banks and taking them over and that is 200 miles off ~r.d we cannot look after our own inland waters.

That is the only help we can give with the fisheries, put those draggers out, our own included, Sir, a!Jaolutely, becetuse ~here is no hop~ tc expa;:-,d any shrimp, scallop, lobster, herring are all going to be destroyed. It is only a matter of ~ few years, if \/e have seen it, we have seen it in our lifet:!:: :te. Th•m 1.t gees ou to c!evelop a;:~d main!:ain transportation facilities including an all weather r.oad. Yes, Sir, I would love to see it, I would love to see an all -weather roar! do1m tile coas;:, I would be the fir!.t or>.e to juop up and cheer i.: I could get t.hc>.t de~o-n there an::!

I = sere tha hon. member fo1.· St. Barbe North and the"J~:cm~e ·c for ~itc Ba:~ N•nth ~ould be happier still and e~en the L~brador South ~~n ~o~ld help us, I ac sure they voul~. absolutely. But it is only daydreacing, ve have not go~ enough money to buy that bit of land for the park. You just got your answer today, this Government has not enough money to give you a hclicoper service, Sir, across the Straits. That was not fesible, you are asking for it. No, Sir, that is the answer that vas given here.

This Government does.·not have the money to givEO a helicoper servic~ across t!1e Straits and yet we are 1714 •. --·

Jl~ April 8, 1970 Tape #3P.S Pnp.e I MR. HRYflD!: And yet 1:e are t:tlL!ng ;Jhot!t fifty or sixty million eo11.->rs. We have not cnouf.h money to buy this land. S2. r.1illion. Yes DREE, if ~~c get the DP.EE r.10ney, there wi] 1 not he any left for ~~e~rfoundl nnd ·according to this. It will all be spent on the Northern peninsula, and I would love to see that too. I would love to see, every bit. You will get your chance Sir, just \.'ait a rninute. You will get your chance to stand uo and fight for your end of it.

And it goes on, "the proposed National rad: should not be vie1;ed in isolation fror.1 the region around it". lvell that is a great statement. l{onderful. l·:e are not.' developing the rer.ion dmm there Sir, if that is whnt they are thinkin~ about. He are developinp; the region, not from government money or government halo, in the Hawke's Bay, Port Saunders and Port -au-Choix, and the fisheries and everythinr. else. That is being a developed. But this is brand new staterne~t.

"To proceed with the Nati~n~l Park proposal as it stands wo~ld be overlooked as an excitin;s opportunity to initiate an intri:;:atec devclcpment strategy, ~hose impact socially and economically uill be felt by a much l~. rger nu::~ber of ~itizens o·ver a much larger geograph1ci1.] area.'' l·!ell that is a wonderful statement. It is tn:a, absolutely true. I l."culd love to see it. lnat is really r,ood. But it is not going to help ~hose peoole do1~. in Bonne Bay, who are looking for somethin~ to do. But Sir ~Je come to another s•1bstance, the real substance of t:1is.

"Very substantial costs are involved in the repatriation cf properties and rights," and get that Hr. Soeakcr, "l."ip.hts"- in the proposed :lational Park area, for the purpose of providing to the Government of Canada clea~ title to the area. Amonr, these costs are those associated with the relocati~n of communities. And comoensation - ~et that Sir. Co~pcnsation to otmcrs of pToperty and rights grnnted for resource development purposes.·· Ti1ere is the crux of it. These oil concessions not.T hnve to be brou:;ht back. The:; were given twenty years ago.

Nobody did anvthing .... ith them. but they are goin~ to b~ hrour.ht hac~ now. This is why ve need the $3 million. Not $2 million but $3 million. We need that extra ~illion for our friend. And it is submitted that since the acC]uisition of properties - :md the extension of rir.hts ls for national purposes, The n::~tion should hear the burden of -the cost. The only thing 1715

Jl-1 Aprl~ 8, 1970 Tape l' 388 Par.c 2 to give them the land, they t¥i ll develop it. There is ::w question about that. That is all they ask of them. Pass over the land. It is that rcoresentativc areas of our Province and thus of the nation must be preserved, for they are aesthetic ecolo~ical and recreational value, for present and future generations. Their inadequate balance must be struck bctvecn the future, for the present and future life needs. and the need for conservation for conservation sake.

And that t?hen conflicts arise, value judr.ements must be made regardless of the consequences in the light of vhat appears as any given moment to be the entire public interest. That is a real goccl statement. Big words and everythinp: else. But it is not true. You are talking about mines and everythin~ else. He are talking about preserving the land, you agree Hith that. Good. This is a kin_. to a natural la>. That is another one. That is a real j!:OOd statener.t. It is kin to natural law. Number six on hist:lric doc:u:nants.

It is that ~-·here resources required for life, for life use, arc barred from such use, there must be compensation. There cannot be a vacuu~. There must be a benefit conferred in return. _ A benefit at least as s;reat as that which is lost. I agree 'With it,, but in other wurds, ~hat you are tying to do now is sell all the concessions. And that Silica ~line arir! the oil concession and every other timber rights dvtm there. Do Bovaters want to be paid for their timber rights? ~o, that is what they do not. Do not kid yourself. They are interested in the Park, interested enough to pass his land over.

They will ~ass it over if you will give them the extra. Excuse me Hr. Speaker, I should not be speakin?. to the minister, it is you. And again in the case of the proposed Gros }~orne National 'Park. the '\"alue judgement sinply must answer these questions. l-!hich is preferable? ' The usc of known resources for life, or their preservation in a 1\ational Park. Oh my! That is all there is to that one. And if the latter, how may the los~ of resources required for life use be compensated for, if at all, to be brou~ht back of course, to be paid for. The value of the jud~cment, let us look at this.

The objective must be to ohtain for the people of the region and the Province g~nerJlly, econo~ic and social benefits at least as as ~rcat .1s those uccruinr. or 1 ikely to <Jccruc from the use of rel':ources to 171G

JH April 1l, 1970 be locker! ""- >~o. r_ - --............ c, fish and r,ao.,e both as p,ood resources. And as a basis ft>r income from guiding and c.atering. And also con:pensation for properties. And ap.:ain ri~hts necessary to be acquired or extinruished to make way for park develop- ment. !'o"' in other t.•ords it seems that they ha-.f·:'! nm·7 received a piece of land drrom there, and instead of passing it over to the F<!d2r~l Govern~tent, you are going to try and sell it. The Minister is soin~ to try and sell ic. I wonder if every other Province did the same thing.

A.-,d thrr" ninister stated also right here that he has oncrated in r,ood faith. He also said that he was the one or if not him, this r~vern~cnt started back in 1964, they- made the first approach I believe to the Federal Government. They asked them if they would be interested in developing a Federal Pa!:k. And in good faith over the past six years, when they said yes, the Government has been negotiating year after year, pining a little mere, we want 3 litcle ~ore.

You are not going to get this now, because the~e may be minerals there, there may be zomething there, so therefore we want a park - we want ~1hat ~·e lo'"ant. And it continue-s for sh: years after tiiey said ye~ w~ 'lo:anr. 'lt. Oh yat' arc not those senior interests and now we are going to s~e wh~t we can get for it. And the latest of course is they uant the $50 million or $GO million for the whole co'lst. I agree, I' would love to g':!t it. I hope he has it.

I hope since he has been in Ottat..'a, he brou!'hl it back >t-Jit?l him, because as far as I am concerned, if he has not, and I doubt if <!r.y governr.~ent is knot,• going to listen to that foc-lishness. I do not ~:hether yo<.! are going to sit back - a government in Ottmo~a and .~ay lvell look, yes you have such a ~onderful piece of land there, thnt ve really -.-ant it }!r. Speaker. And at any cos't. $50 million or $60 million is only a few dollars ~nd we need that land. Yes I am afrilid it ~<ould be a long period of ye.:_rs Sir. A ~ood many years, a ~:ood many years.

Sm.r we come back to so;;:e thinP. else on Par.e 9 if you would like to continue on follm.,.ing: Tnerefore, the following are put for-..:a::::d as faci'!itics necessary to e<1ui p fully Gros :'!orne ~a tiona l Park, in order to enable it to conplete, compete satisfactorily ,.:fth other Nationnl Parks in the Atlantic Provinces. Ancl to realize its full ootential in tents of its economic irr.nnct on the nort h ·.-e~t coast of t'tw. Provine('. And the first one is Recreation Vlll~~e, includin~ rolf, tennis, hcntcd swimminr. pools, 1717

JH April 8, 1970 Tape lf3SS children's play~rounds, and prob~bly mo~t of th~m in ~~e Lomond area - there is nothinr. '~-'ronr, with that !-!r. ~~inistcr, and ~~r. Sneilker. ~ot a thing wrong 'l<'ith that. That -.•z.s nentioncd three ye.:!rs ago ir. this House, so there is nothing ne·,.;r in it either, but there is nothing '"ron7. in it. l·!inter Sports Range to provide for the winter tourist. denand to '"hich there is now no satisfactory provision in th~ Atlantic ?rovinces. That is a great one, considerin~; there is a gte<;t Sl~i Club there ·. in Corner Brook.

There is nothing there, ~linter sports do not r.-.e;:~n anything in here. Do not worry !lr. Speaker, it is in use no<" and it will be in use this weekend, for everyone who ,,•ants to enjoy it. And a fe,., inore 'lveekends yet. Cne in Labrador City, that is another one. 'l:'hi.s would incluJe skiing, slopes .e.nd cro~s country, toho~gani!!p. and sno¥1!nobiles. Snm-m~cbiling, that is a nm1 word, I have heard tobogganin~. motor tobogganing, and skidooing, but snm-'Bohilinp.. There is r.othing ~rong w-ith that Hr. Speaker. Th~re is re:;.lly f'.othin~t 'l~ron~ ~•ith that; That is a good thing.

TI1ere is no doubt about it. Unfortunately it has been mentioned rr.any times by tne Northern Regjon Develop~ent Association, but clear of that, there is no::hin11: -.•rang vitn it. It is like I s1y, a lot of this stuff ~:e have al:t heard before, and I al"l gJ ad to s~e it put Jmm ir. print, because it means the m!u~ster is listening to so~e of the uecule ac last. And he is puttin,; it down here, there is ncthir.g wrong with t!lat. Underwater p3rk c~m,onent, ~robably n?rth cf Rocky Haroour. I would not like to go north of Ro~ky Harbour, becaus~ you are right out into the Gulf.

There is nothin~t thece nocth of Rockv Harbour that _,.ou can ?,et into. a You '!;ant tc see that stuff !n tnere, if that is vhat you call coloured ' picture. That was never taken up thcr~ thv•l;zh. But re~acdless of th.:~t Hr. Speaker, there is cnly one real area there, and that is within the ann, eastern and 1;estern. I do not kno'l", and I st~nd to be corrP.cted.

The hon. ~linister cf Public: t,'orks vill probably know it a lot -:nore than r.te because he sailed there by boat, and I a::~ sure that he ~ras caught out there a good man}' ni>:hts trying to get into Bonne Bay. 1 am positive of th~t, hecause most of the time I was with him. ~~d ther~ \.•:t!: an a\:ful lonr.. coast ri~h~ frrl~ Por;: s~und~-rs do;..~ to Ronne na~~ and th~t is a hundred miles of it. So I u0 not.k.no-.: where you would put an unckn.cnter p:uk there, but :i.t is r.ood, there is noth in~ wronr. with th:\ t • 1718

J h' April 8, 19/0 To he the first in Canad:1 ;.~r.d coptur~ th•?. r;1pidly emer~inr, underw.:tter s ports interest. I agree, there i~ nothin~ with th3t. I heard that mencioned first by Doctor Laird, and I felt quite proud t hat he was going to use it, and I am proud to see it there because this is t<hat ''e '·mnt. But you will not be able to ~lr. Speaker, you -;.'ill not be ahle to use it if there is a silica li'line 10ithin tdles of it. Rest assured ahcut that because when any minim; goes there, any open-pit Mininf, and you start to f,Ct the run-off.

It does not matter whether it is north of Rocky Harbour or south of Bonne Bay, that is goin~>, to polute the t>aters in the t~hole area there, you need not Yorry about that. So therefore, we must say here that there is goinp. to be no silica mine. It has not been stated an)"~here, but I do not believe there is. I do not think the m~nis~er is going to mention silica for a good many years Sir. I think he is fed up on that word. Tile Adult Education and fine Art Center probably at l'oody Point, as I have stated bef<Jre, the Uoody Point people are always talking about ~his, this is good. That is good.

There is nothing wrong ~ri th this. I said I have heard it all before in th~ /!RDA study. That is all right Sir, there are active people do~~ in my district, and they go ahead regardless of governr-ent help. }farina and sma,ll boat basin at Neffie' s Harbour, nothing wrong with that, I fullv agree witt: it. Retention of certain ccn~unities sue~ as Saliy's Covc and Trout River. Now that comes tc> a very intercstir.g poln::.

In s~me of the staterr.ents the ministers made hera on that is this: Back in 1969 of ·Jznuary, just before we were ut Bonne Bay, and I believe it all came out there in Bonne Ray about Sally's Cove and Trout River. 'i'here 1.!as a statement came back from the minister 1719

April 8th. 1970, T~ pe JS9 PK -· 1 }!f:.

H"'l!!.ni:N: tlre 7~inister of IndJ/J.n Aff;.!irs o l.;;tt(;.r to tlif! }~in.lster of ~- lines ar:d Rcsource!i conccrninr. th:tt r:h ir~ £~ on 1!;Irch 7th, 1he l:in1 s ter of Indian Affi:lirs <md :-7orthc;:n Dcvelop:::er.t in a telep· " ~ ' to the hem. the Prc111ier, <Lh·ise th::lt he understood that, if the mine site o;, t't-.c; e;Jst a~-=-· is 1'roceeded uith you are prcp<::red to include the Trout RiV<!!" ari:a south of torme nay in the park proposal, includinf, the • .ov.::ntual r.:ov,~ of the Trout 1\ive~ co:n::uni ty. !:m·' oa or:e ha;1d you su.y here, you hope to retain this certain coi:':->uni ty, but you have already stated, by this tcler.ra::l, being received by you, you stated that this t.;ould be, or l!r.

Spec:ker, the minister stated that further en the Premier advised this is very velcc;ce n.;:ws indeed, and I have advised my colleague the hon. Hilliam R. Callahan, tht: !lic:ister of :lines, Agricul::t•..1ral, and Resources of your der.isio~ and I expect that he will be in touch with you vt'!ry shortly. to res~;r:-.e discussions on this very wort:a .:hile project.

Now the ninister has stated thYt he h~s dcne this in good faith, and I beli~ve him, and I honestly believe that h e hi!.S done everything possible to retain those fishing villages along the Sc-uth River and Sally-~s Cove· Bec:1use I feel that, end he doe5 too I a:r, s•.1-rc· , that it •.-."::>uld be a terrific waste of ~~ney to cove people, p~ople such ~s people in Sally's Cove, Mr. Speaker, "~;he have never, I suppose neve.;r in t: heir life had to eo •.:cry, very often, v;ry seldom you ~:.-ill see a >r..C!n on Pclfare in Sal:l.y's Cove.

They tJill go ever~~I:ere e.na anyt-1here• • anyr.hing to -:l.o, tills Hi':lt~r, I believe, according to vne chap '1-te told me, ·..;e :1ave hed on.: :::ot:th, a 1:12n ran cnt of his une::<plo:,·ment, an:l he said },e ltad one 1:10nth. 0::1 uble.:,odicd reli:::£, that is :111 in a population I suppose there l!:ust be t.:<onty-three or t-:.r.2nty-four men ;.:or~::!.n& there, they are all over this t..OU..'1.tr:t_, but they never stop ho~e. And they :ne ;;::eat fisl:terrr.en, ;::nd they ate gr~:J.t wor! ·:e!'s.

And I bel:!.eve li!;:e the rniniste::-, that I believe him, wh.:n h2 says he wa:1ts to re~ain those certain co'"mmi!:ies, t:,ere is nothing "-"rong with that. Eecause they o::-e bca•.lti.Zul picturesques, b2autiful villages do"-n <trou"d So~~t:l P..iver, those c;re<ts the Prenicr hos been there, he has seen it :1ll. You can ah·ays get a good ~.:elcone in these places because these, people are good god-f~aring peaFle, and they love to see people coming to talk to then. They love it, but I vill st&te. right h~re again, that is another good ide:l, there is nothing wrong ~ith it. It is a perfect ideas.

The preservations of histc~!c~: ~nd colourful struct~;re such as 1720

Apr-il 8th. 1')70 Tape 3£:9 PK - 2 th·-:! rar".:r. nut it is a r.ood idea., th12re i.s no !:hinr; ":ron;: ~·.~ ith it.. The continu;:;ticn of fishing rlrhts and lan<.lin~ rif.hts alonv, the coast _ v:ithin the t-::ttional rark, a5 tc\!:ti~t ~ttractions ~!';d provir;:!.ons of '-Ihat""'JCS and landing and ~ar~eting facilities, including a sea foods restaurant concession, th<lt is a good id.::o.. There is nothing wrong with that. The wild zoo park, where typical ;:mi:n:::!ls from ~i thin the ~;atio:lal Park might be yic1-1ed by visitors.

I h ave lived in Bonne Bay, and I s~?~ose I travelled the coast for tl-.'cnt:,: years, and unfortunatley I h;;vc r.ev e r seen an · arctic hare or a pine martin, and I cic not kno;..' of any other people who have, it is one of these rare ani;;1als that you are very lucky if you can find. That t;ould be a good thing becal!se these anir:1als will ne·.-cr be seen aga in. These a-re c>.nir.~als that are almost e x tinct, and as I unden;t:?.Ld in anoth:=r iteo there ~he minister has done everything possiT>le to re~ain these til:1ber rights, thc>.t these aJ~irr·als live in that !.1' a good ictea.

Th~re is nothh:g •n:ong ~dth that. Proyision of the fish hctchery _ is pl<:~n::-, ed in the new K!!nt Coc..'l.ty National Park in ~e'.l Eruns;dck, that is 60od too, absolutely. nothing too wrong w-ith that. l~ow 1o1e want to get to the back pa::-t of that on page thirteen, the St. Barbe Coast has seen an i!:iportant su:::gc for. -;ard in industrial d~velop:.:ent based on the resources of the re:sion. That is a fair stat~ccnt, that is ri zht. There is no doubt about th~t. They are doing it, and the~ are ~orking hard at it. It has not ::ome to its full c .':pao.;ity yet, b1..•t it JS co::ning.

Ard I th~nk it will he, I think it is go~ng to be 2. goo~ indust=Y there, but the developrr.ent starte::l in Ha"kes B:1y, Port au Choix, Port Saunders area are suffi~iently pr0~iscd to ~ustify their desig~ation of the area, as a speci&l are<! under the D?-EE: Prograr. ,. There is noti1ing '~.'Tong with that. Because· that area there .n.lone needs help in th!:' fot:-::1 of •~har,rcs, in the form of Hater su:>ply and everythin8 else. It is not jw;t yet a ;-;1ajcr integrated forest products plan, I ag afraid. Sot as yet, but it vill be.

The long liner fishe-ry has see n spectacular gro ~ 'th and plans have been m~de frcn a sir,nificant shrimp harvest. Scallops are also i~portant, and lcbstcrs are traditional. I have already stated ~y feelings on th.n.t on that Hr. Speaker, and I do not want to r;o throurh it egain. I believe the minister has the same trouble down in hi!O arc:J, I~i,_ h '~ ~-;;[":i't rs: , I 01::1 sure he h:~s. There c:ll .. ~ be, and ch:=:rc. h'ill not be .~ ny 1 ·:..: :·. ::--.-·~ u :~ 2 :.h =i ~ p b:tl"""\o"C::;t ir:. the Gulf, whether it is north of Pert au Cl:o~. x. t;>,t' in St.

G~·orr.e's llny, until, <tnd until thnt r.ulf is cJ.c:>i.'d to the- t!r:>f.fCr si tu .1tion ;:c- kwc over thcr.: no...,. It t..-1s

April 3th. 1'!70 PK- 3 cost this Gove:rn;nent here hundreds of thou$;;nds of ~nl1:'1l"'~ ?"!"!~ '! ~?:;:::~: :::.:;-;-, for it, and t!te people do. llccause as far ;:15 I a::1. concerned "lkC could not do anything else, these people had, it was he~ten right into ~.e ~round by draf.£;er situation, tite Federal Govcrn":~:;t ~:o~..:ld not help them. · l·[<'ybe th~y could not, I do not knou, ?hey have never done anything, actually over there to help th:!s boat situation.

They h.:n:c l~or~·-c·:l hard, and thc7 have send boats do"t.."!1 there, but as the boats gc out in the r_i;:;ht time, you \;ill sec the;:-, in on the shore, you can count them in the straits do:.:n there just like another city. And that is only eig:>t to nine niles z;oart. .tl-'1d '1-'e arc talking now about going out to the Grand B;:mks, and t<Jke over sorue of the Granu-Ba:-,ks, li'e do not even mm our inland waters. Tl~e-rc cannot be any shrimp,indt.:strJ. There ca~not any scallop industry of any grc,c_t lenrth.

There n<:\"O::r will be a great lobster· industry bec~use they arc ciruzging right to the bottoffi, and they are coming rit;ht in on the shore, thcs.:> draggers. i'-nd, Sir, "'hat \.-orries me, that there is a school ,of herring out t!·,c" re, thtl.t is called the gulf herring that cor:es datm around Port au · Por~, £-::em Port au Port right up th1:ough, it is only a srr.all school, and u.'"Jless we get the draggers out of there and keep ~hem convi:1ced, that until further stl!d!es ;:;r;:: ::;:;de there should not be any fishing other than for food cons~.ption, not dehydrating plants because I think they are going to cle2r it up.

I think the ninsiter over the<:e has agreed ~;itt it, until further studies are d:;ne. I think so:::ething should be done. A..'ld I think that Gt1lf of St. l.a~:rence should be turned into th~ inland ~!aters vhich it was rr:eaut ::o be. We cc:.r.not do it, the hon. the !lin~ster of l':.sblic t'orks has had :r a:1y of these cooplains up in his area, right throurh Che struits. Th2re are dr~g£ers fro~ all over the vo-;:ld, and the bi,;gcst: kind. Hell, I have seen ~he:n !!rounded up in the minister's district.

Grounded, co~e righ~ in on shore, and I h.:~?e seen thre~ !:lore cor:tinp, to clr.:~p, :i.t off before the patrcl bo.:~t comes. They l:z·,•e cone so close in. So there cannot be, ;:nd I am scrry to say, there never "~kill be a very improt;;.nt scallcp or lobster or shrin•p until this is done. Ihere have beeR encourar.ing results from ~inQral exploriation end large suns are being exp;mdcd. 1~<::11, I do not: think he ;r.e<J.ns "~kith in the park, I think the hon. minister Tr.<~ans outside, there has been quite a bit of r..iniur.. llo·•ever, I still say, I ~ould

April 8th. 1970 T;,pe :.!.:)9 The main thinc, Mr. Spc~ker, b e fore I sit do~n, there is scree little thinr, jack here, I do not v:mt to to on too lent;. Thls is on par,e eighteen, what we now see k is a great national park, that will expel not only by virtue of its \Jilcicrness act, but also l•y vir~~.;e of th e f.:J.cilities associ; :ted with it, and the additional attraction of a historic nature, linked to it by a good hij!lmay, and there is nothin g ~•rang with thDt. But, right bclc·,; tl•at he says again, !-Ir. Speaker, the Gros :·:or.:"' N;1tional l'.:1rk nmst: not be considered or develo~ed in isolation.

It must be t he chorin ncculus of a devclop~ient of th.:r \.·hole scctio!1 of !\cwfot:ndland, t:hich surrounds it. Anu I ar,ree, it s:10uld not be. It would b!" in isolation if ~.t started. There is $5 r.JilHon in Ot:tat;a that~'"' kno;~ about for the Tiext fe"N y~ars. There is almost $2 r.illion vithin this ne:ct fiscal year. This is all ._,e arc co:::plaining about. He '..'auld like to see it star~ed nm;, ti:e people _do~'!l there Hould. There has been core phone calls and ngitation over this thing, than anything else. There is no reason for it.

But, I ag::2e, I vllluld love to see this year $60 cillion. ~:;:ybe that •.-o~lld help the ~:hole e::cno;ny of the north coast, I ~;ould l01.;e to see it, I '·Jould love to sc2 the road. Eut, I cl.o n o t ;.:aT,t to wait for the ne~t six or eight years. Becuasc it is im?OSsible, these people cann!lt waic, Hr. Sp.i!aker. They a·re toe> b~dl:: in ne~d of some emp!.oyment. And this is vhat the vhole crux of the- !!latter is. ! canl"!.ot see ho;.r the Govern~.ent can ceo:::~ up t-1ith a paper like this, 'lo.'ithin t\:enty-four hours bt'fore ve arc goin;; to dis::uss this park, and say this is the ar..svcr.

All you have got to t:ai t for is t\~O or three more year;;, when the money is sitting there in Ott~~a. I do not know what the score is. But I hc-pe the <ilinister has brought b;::ck ~o:r. e ans•.1ers, I 'Jill be gl;;d to listen to him, Sir, becuase t!-Jcre is z. lot of people not only i12 St. Barbe Soutn tcho are interested in this park, there is a.lct of people all over Nc~fou~dlar..d are mostly interested. And I think, as f~r as ! a~ co~cerned, that r.Jaybe he ha$ the anst:ers. I hope he h;1s. Thank you. RO:I . IHLLU~: OF ~!I:~[S . AG'<ICl1.. TL?.E A..'-iD RESOl'RCES} ~lr.

Speaker, the Govcrm::ent of course do net accept, Sir, the resolution. And I hope as I go along: to indica::e very, very clenrly to the House ;.·hy 'l.·e do not ~ccept the resolution. The r.-;ction, ;,r..J ,., y •: e , we will ask the Hous-e- opposite ~;-ho ju:;t sat do•;n, to vote <w.ninst the rcsolHtion. 1723 .--

Api:ll 8tl1. 1 ~70 Tape 33SI PK - 5 the hon. ,;cnt lerr.-:m uho just s:::;t d0\;n r:1n;-:cd over a very \<:ide area, and r.:<!ny ot the tldnr,s he discur.scd <Jn:: dis c \r:>sed in a St:l."lll pti:::phlet 'lo:hich ~o•as circulated in the west coast of the Province sor.;etit'le ago, some months ago, I ~rould S.'1y. There is no date on it, that I can find. And the fin;t panel, }'r. Speaker, has (cmd this is pe .r~-"'ps a little pla~iarism, because it is not certainly an original type ~lith the h.on. gentl:m•

m) It says, "the foq;ot ten peninsula ~1hat nm.,." At the bot tor.-, in the first panel indicates that it is a report by the hon. the I:!e:rrber for St. Barbe south, pres~ab ly to his constituents. Now ~!r. Speaker, bearing in mind the ti t:!.c"the forgotten peninsula", it is in teres tint; to gl<mce over the four pc.:1els on the inside, the irr:mediate four, which ar'-' headed by a headline, "Our nc~ds arc great", and then it "but says/;;iTJ.ce Septc:<1i:er 8th. 1966 with your :-,clp, r.uch as been accomplished".

And the entire four panel, and a fifth panel on the back and to a large extent a sixth panel on the back, are a catalogue of all the things the Govern~ent hav~ done since September 8th. 1956 in that Cistdct~' A..""l.d Hr. Speaker, it is a very revealing list, 2nd indeed, i;; !!:akes o:1e wonder ~-1hat the purpose of the pamphlet was in the first place, because "'hat ore perceives fro:<n the cover is ~±ametric~lly i~posed to t~e burden on the inside. And I suggest Sir, that exactly an~ precisely the sa~e situation exi~ts "~th respect to the resolution t~c hen. gentle~an has on the Order Paper today.

Indeej, he has just Gpoken for inexcess of -one hour on a resolution t·1hich sets out to conde;nn the Government, a:::.d then he has spoken as I have said, in excess of ' an hour indicatinz to the :louse where he is in ag-.eement with ~o~hat the Governrr .cnt: had dor-e a::~d F•oposed and ~n vi.rt1.';;.lly e· .. er)· ir.stance he has st.:ted <:uite clearly. ~nd indeed I Jskcj hi~ on a nu~vcr o£ o=casions Sir, across the House, ~hether this is agr~ed, is that okay, is lhat good, and in each case he said, yes. And I not£d it as he went along. So Mr.

Speaker, really the resolution appca.-s to be a rather foolish one. nut, nonetheless it is on the Order Paper 1724

April S, 1')70, Tape J~CJ, P ;H~e 1 -- apb on tlle Order Paper, ~nd it is to be: Jcb;oted, and U!c hon. gentlcr.1an has begun the debcte ant! I SU[>?Ose there is no turnin:; back nm-:. Mr. Speaker, the resolution regret$ the fo1lure of the Gover~ment of Xcwfo~adland to proceed expeditiously ~iti1 the eslablis~wcnt of the proposed. B,:,nne Bay ~;at"ional Pa.:-k. ~ir. S?e:ak.er, the Gover:-tr.:ent h.:tvc not proceeded expeditiously Hhich I take to rr.c:.n .:ts quickly as possible, and I underline the possil1lc.

The Gov~rnr;.eat ;-.,~ve not proceeded as exp~ditiocsly as it r.1ight hD.vc prc-cccded. \·!<?. ad'-!it th:i ,s for the very sim?le rca:::on Sir, that we reject the prvposcd Bonne i>ay iiatio:Ell Park as it i:; proposed, and we have been rejecting it for: r.:any r.;onths. i\.;, siJ:Jll continue to reject it as a concept. But, Nr, Speaker, \~e have ~,o t cs I ncar:l on the radio this morning, I do not kno'' wh.:J.t uas on last night I was not her<:, but I heard brozdcast this morning th:J.t "~.>e had j.:: fact. as a Government, rejected the Bonne Bay ·;iational Park.

"h'e have not rejected the Sonne Bay National Park. l>e ask for the :lationD.l Boanc Day Park to be established· ~lr. Spe.:1ker, we have continued in that desire, and I might say ir. ti~at dcterr::in.:ltion and ;;h2t has happened very simply is that we have been negotiating ior the bes:: possible concept, and ~he bt:st possible reality in tl=n.~s of a national park that we can obtain at Boo;1e Bay, now. t.efore an ag;:ee:<!ent is signed bec~usc, :-:,.

Sp2aker, when the agreeme:Jl is signed it is goir,.g to be too :!.ate as ~•e hnve found with Terrn Nova to be going bac~ looking for fa~ilities coM?cra~le to those existing in other parts of Canada. Mr. Spe.c.ker, lle ar~ not going to sign an agreement until we know that 1~e are belng treated as other Prcvin~es have been treated, and 1..-e know holi they t>:~ve heen treated. If the hon. l;(~ntler~an think3 that is tripe . Hr. Speaker, he should lea;;n to read and gc:t ir!to the paper ;md see 1-ha:: the infon:~a ti:::m is. NR.

C!i.OSnir:: I have been into it, it is nothing but a sheet of lies. ~ell that mi~1t be Mr. Speaker, because the bon. gentleman must have found many thinp.s that ~ere net t~ his liking. No1o1 ~Ir. Speaker, this Government h.:1s been accused in effect and in fact, the hon. gentleman becan '""ith the implied accusation that ;;e 1•ere :Jot concentcd at-out the provision of parks cr pl .<;'~ ;: C'•Jn-~ ~, pl<1ces • .. :here people 1725

April 8, 1970, Tape 390, r;1r.e 2 -·- ~pL could co I think he said, ••c have an all too short su : ~;ner an~ay, pl~ccs Hr. Speaker, that accusation is lain dn a Govcrnw:!nt that have in ten years created thirty-nine and t.•e are nm; into the fortieth_ wilderness parks ·~o~hich :-ank, (and I defy anyone to she;.: any better) "hich rank with the finest t.•ilderness parks in North America. They arc truly wilderness parks Mr. Speaker, and the determination is that they will con~inue to be wildcr~ess parks, that they will not be cluttered up by artificial attractions. ~:ow if that How many wilderness park5? HR.

CALLAHA'.;: Thirty-nine ~!r. Speaker, and one being built at this tnO!:!ent in the Codrov estuary • .AN H0:-1. };[~!BER : There is not a single park north of there MR. CALLA!iAX: There is one at Rive.: cf Ponds Mr. Speaker en that coast HR. HYfJ'JEX: No there is not MR. CALLAHA!':: And there ~o~ould have perhaps been one at Western Brook. A.~ H0:-1. ~:r:::-taE r. : White do<:s not have any par~s }iR. CALLAliAli: At· the titr,e that consideration ~1as given originally to park developoi!nt at all on the St:.

Earbe Coast, the consideration ~ras in respect of Provincial park·developocnt and Hestern Brook t:~ight well have been a ?rovincial park. But the Govcrmr.ent took it a step further, and took it indeed several steps further and \Je ccr.~e to the point where in 1964, and again in 1965 there ~as consideration of a national park and in 1S65 this Goyern~ent, asked the Government of Canaca to consider putting a national park there. Hr.

Speaker, in case there m::1y seem to be some conflict · !;e tt,;een the pclicy that we have proposed in respect of Cros ~!orne, and the policy of preserving Prcvincial park~ as wilderness, let me say this. That hon.t;:e'mbers who will read the 11 \ihite Pa;>er" will find that consistently through t~:c p;:.pcr ,.e have not in fact as;;.ed t!1at f;:~cilities be put in the P.<:.tional oark, we have proposed that they be provided in as5cciation with the nation.:J.l park. The reason Hr.

Speaker, a.•d t.:c appreciate the policy, the reason is that the policy of the Gov.ernrnent of C<:nad-'1 in respect of niltionill parks is not to put facilities dinctly within the::J. We a£rce with that policy. We think there should be arcns alonr,sidc or hard-by nntionnl parks where facilities mir,ht be 17 2 6

April 8, 1970, T~pe J90, PaRe J -- npb providt!d in <!S5oci<J.tion "ith it. This is a policy I think -...-:1ich -.:ill be followed ~ore and ~nrP. Now Hr. Speaker, to get to :ny ;:oint, "the point is that this Government have in fnct created in ten years a system of l,rildern<::!ss parks that ranks with wilderness parks anywhere in ~o~th A~crica better than most. We know that from the quite voluntary letters that come in from people telling us how much t hey appreciate these p<u:ks as \Jilderness parks. Nr.

Speaker, I also have to say that that is all we have at Terra :\ova, so lol'ith the ne1-1 Provinci<J.l park being built, and including the Terra Nova National Park, within a period of perhaps eighteen months ~!e will have forty- one wilderness parks in this Province and not one: of the:n ~;ill have Yithic it and most of them will not have nearby facilities of course in terms of first class trailer parks or any other artificial facility. The "reason Mr.

Speaker, is that private enterprise is not sufficiently convinced, and I must say that I cannot blame them, that a two months or at the most a three month tourist se~scn does not justify the expenditures requi~ed to provide these facilities in isolation from normal communities. In other words, you are not going to get very many hotels built out on the Trans Canada iii8h~;ay hard-by a Provincial park, or even hard- by the National park. The same goes for other facilities. Hr.

Spe"aker ·, these parks for the most part arP. on the Trans Canada Highway which mea ns that they are in line of east - 'Jest travel across the Province. Now if private enterprise, and I kno~r because I have dealt with many a prospective operator all on this, I they '.tant to do is put in a portable chip van, or a portable soft drink wagon or so:nething so they can go in ,.;hen there are people there on a Sunday and get out aGain, That is not really a facility, it is a v~ry ~mall convenienc~. They are not prepared to do it Hr.

Speaker, and how much more in respect of the north coast, in respect of L'Anse }!eadows, in respect of Cros Norne. It is all fine Yhat the hon. ~,;cntleman says, and I ag-ree 1vi th him. There are many thin r,s that local people C;:tn do, but show me Hr. Speaker, the man that is p.repared 'to go up tc L 'At<Se au ~!cadows <1nd put up visitor ac:corru;:odation, build a motel within reasonable distance so that vis~tors who 17 ;·7 travel 300 miles •dll have a place to stay. I kn1~o there is a hotel up there, ,..

April 8, 1970, Tape 390, Pace 4 -- apb there is a motel up there, I Dtn ~ 1.~-:tre of t:,.J.~. but it is not c]osc to the :.::.t.::, .ii. .i:; not convenient, and not i!dequate for visitors. The result ~!c-. . - Speaker is that if Goverm;1ent funds, public funds are not used to provide facilities of this kind the facilities will not be provided. ~s I have said we have the experience, we have had the e;-:periencc trying to persuade oil companies \:ho have year ·round business en the Trans Canada High\~ay, gas stations and restaurants v:!=Y well setup, and ~lr.

Speaker, the House will be am;J.zed at the difficulty of t-rying to get them to put a few more dollars in to put in decent trailer sites, trailer par~:s to acco=odate the hundreds and I suppose by nm1 the thousands of people who travel with trailers and who have no place really to go 1Nith them to get rpoper services and facilities hook ups and all the other things that are necessary to enjoy them. If they will not tlo it on the Trans Ca.<ada Highway :rr. Speaker, where I suppos., ninety per cent of the traffic naves, ho~< rnuc!1 less chance that they will go 200 or 300 miles up the north coast and do . it.

If we are talking about large numbers of people it is going to have :o be done. Mr. Speaker, the point is that ~e have provided parks all over this Province, and ~;e Hill provide 1r.ore. As money becomes available, and as common sense dictates there will be more Provincial wilderness parks.

But for.ty-one of them, if you incl10dc Terra :;eva wou.ld seem to me to be pretty ample at this !itage, and t!,ere is nothing that another '-dlderncss park. far off the beaten track, no matter no!~ good its attractions for a limited number of peopl~ who are in~erested in e~ology, or spectacular photography, or - wl".at have you, the average bread and butte= tourist, the man and his wife and three, or four, or five, or six kids, not only want to go and enjoy the out- d.JOrs, but also to have a little comfort, ;md sor.~e place perhaps to sto1• the kids away for a few hours so that for the first tice in twelve r;·.onths the parents can have a rest. r:1ey are not going to be attracted to another wilderness park ~!r.

Speaker. Then let us carry it a lictle further afield. Let us look ac ~hat has been provided. The hon, gentleman from St. ,lohn' s h'est said "tripe" MR. CROSUIE: · Trash MR. C-\LLi\liA~:: All right, trash, tripe, there is not.ouch diffcren~e. The fact is Hr. Speaker, th::1t all across this country in National parks, there have 1723 •,

Provinci.<~l pa ~k,; , or G:ros ~ rne t:o cc wp.;:c:e £::~:: tl e s!t.lr~ , f :r a shil!'>:! , a real share , a si&nifica~t slarc cf th~ touris~ tr ade on th~ east coast of North Aro:crica . No<-: the hon' sen tJ er.•<•:1 fro::~ St:. ilarbc south S?Okc a lit cle kindly. <l:ld na.s been i:lde:ed a r clnt ivc bed-fellow in ~ccent tiou s t!le hon . th e •. \;::.bcr oi Parlia;:;..:!nt for ll.:e1"::>er ,-St .

Georg=- Sr. lkn:be, a.'1d .he has been t<Jlk in~ a~out: t he r,re;lt i::oom to t.!:c tour:is ir.ul!st r::; th.::t ;.,ro;,:ld accn:c t<~::e this pLl:::k :o be established ir.:r.;e<i:!.atel y. l<e have five or sil' ;:~,;.:u!red jobs Hr . Speai:e r, t,·c ha ·ve $25 million a ye.1r soinr. to pour in to t he ~:e st coa:.t . The hen . gentl eman's bcd-fello;.,r iGs said it . His strange, political bed-fello~. t-IR. ~!Y!<O£: : ~leanins ~lr . Narshall HR. C:\L LA!i,\~1: And }!r .

Speaker , it is use cul t o look at the basis for those s tate mr!nts, and t he basis for th em , al ::.hou;h ::.hc::e has been no attri!.ution I thin k , but it is pretty clear , ano:her little bit of plcdgorism. t he basis ,. is c.n observation of the Roy;:l Co>..n1ission 1Jhic!1 i nd ::..cated that '-'nile t'1ere were 62 ~:~il l ion livins •.·itnio a J , 200 !:'tile rad ius of !'o " c aux Basques , our share necessacily of that traffic ~oul:i be ver'J, ver:' .oecs-t . :or,_· th;~t .....-as • I 1729

April 8th, J 9/0 Tope 391 JM - 1 HR. CALL-\ !IAN: thot was switched around, M::. Speaker, to incJic:;;;te that there were ··62 million people in the area and if only we could get t...-o-per-cent of them w-e would take in, rake in, 25 million. The point of course, H:::. Speaker, is that the Royal Col!lmis:;ion did not say that in the first instance and then in the second instance the reference to 25 million is taken co~pletely out of context and bears absolutely no relationship to the tourist industry or national parks in this country or in this Province.

Sa we have, the hon. gentleman has been talking about illusions, we have the great delusion. People o~ the North coast of this Province have been led to belie\•e that if only the stupid Government, tlr. Speaker, ~<·auld allow the Govenm:en!: of Canada to take 600 square miles of our land, put a fence around it, that that in itself would return to the ?~evince between 500 and 600 jobs and to the West Coast $25. million a year. How foolish, Xr. Speaker: Talk about tripe, M•. Speaker, tripe and trash. MR. SHALLl:OOD: But cruelly, cruelly deceptive, an utter cruelty. MR.

C:\J'.LAll.:\.'1: The hon. gentleman does not agree with that. 'HR. UYRDE~: No, I do not agree with that MR. CALLA}L;I.N: The hen. tr.ember does not agree -with that. He thinks the people should be delayed. HR. ~!!~Sor:.:!f there were fast boat servic<!, <-Ir. S~.aaker, we would do far better. The same as they d~ in P.E.I •• MR HI:-ISOR: Ho1.1 fast is fast? MR CALLA!Wi: I have indica ted in this pc:per, Mr. Speaker, we would need to a:ove twelve times as l!lany peo;d.e, and .oe vould need to r.:ove them in a period of about two and a-half months, instead of t\o·elve no:1.ths. P.E.I does i':, ~!r.

Speaker., because you can do it in forty minutes or less. The que~tion is. what do ~e do with the people when you close off the resources to the~ and twenty or thirty years time when you are getting ~o million people a year, that is the question? All you have to do is look at the development in the tourist industry in the other Atlantic Provinces to see how long it has taken to develop, dispite how close they are, dispitc the fact they could come up . fror.J the States on .a-day basis. It is ncnsense, Hr. Spe.:tkcr.

The p·eople have been deludc:i, they have been lccl to believe that the solutiun of all their problems !.s to lock up an area of wilderness and say; "this is a national park", put in n few rands, put. in a few picnic si tcs and \o.'e have the 17:JO

April !lth, 1970 Tape 391 JH - 2 ~m. C.I\LLAHA:-l: solution to all the proble;ns of U1e north co.:~st. MR. S}~\LU:oon: Cruel deception. HR. CALLA!!AN: He are told, ~!::-. Speaker, that for eve::-y 10,000 people ~·ho visit a park,and this is in sup;:>o1.·t of Gros l·brne, for every 10,000 people the return is the equivalent of one hundred job~. If that ~ere true, if it vere true, 'We would have a very very comfortable situation in th1s Province. MR. CROSBIE: l~ho made that statement? }ffi, CAT.UJ1i\:l: The statenent has been made, 1 t has been published. }ffi. CROSBIE: By whom? MR.

CAJ.LAIL.\N: It has been publ!shed, Mr. Speaker, and the reference is in the White Paper. MR. CP.OSBIE: ~bat is the source? HR. C.\1.Li\H.AN: The reference is ir. the wldte Paper the hon. gentleman says he read,.He apparently did not read it very well,~o I leave him to go and find it. MR. CROSBIE: What 13 the scurce? MR CALLA!lk'l: The source is in the White Paper. It is in the paper. Mr. Speaker, it has been sa!d that fur every 10,000 persons ~ho visit a park the thrust into the economy is one hundred jobs, or its equiv~lent. If that is so, Mr.

Speaker, if the contentio~l \olere correct, if ti:e contention that national parks in the Haritines are responsible for an imput into the ec()nomy equivalent to 326,000 jobs in the Maritiracs, :::tis is the ,kind of nonsense the hon. gentleman and his friends and his associates have been pouring out. !hey talk today. Mr. Spe~ker, about blackmail. The blackoail hzs been com!ng from over there and the attenpt h~s been to blackmail this Government, not the Federal G.,verni:len t, MR cmss:E: XR CA.LLA!IA..'\1 : Into making a deal, Nr. Speaker, that would be highly dis- advantaeeous to this Province.

And it is continuing today. TI1e hon. gentle~en say they have not been given any infor~ation. !he infor~ation was tabled yesterday, and they canr.ot co~plain that they have not got it. And today again, t!r. Speaker, we have the cries that we have not got the in- formation. Well, it is there, Sir. It has t~ken some time and some effort to compile it and hon. gentlemen, apparently, have not.even read it, and they pe:rsist in ti ·e attemi't to bb.d' .. ma!l this Govl!r~ment, by th:is 1731 .-·

Aprl.l 8, 1970 T:1pc 3S'l JH - 3 Resolution and otherwise. NR HYRDEcl: Ah! Corne on! HR CALL/,H.A:-1: Into a deal with the. Government of Can.:<da that would leave this Province, us I suid, at a gr.:1ve dis<J.dv.:mtage in respect or ~·is-a-vis or in corr,parison w:!. th other Provinces and in the ter::>s of the resources that would be removed fro~1 the use of the people of the coast.

It is interesting, Sir, th.:lt one of the concerns that I have been waiting, and I w·aited for so:ne titr.e this aftf:rnoon for the han. gentleman to voice it and he finally did, be made a brief reference, he talked about jobs on the coast - I should think, Hr.

Speaker, that as the nembcr for that district lis primary co3ccrn, if not his sole concern, would be for the people, how much compensation they will get for their ho~es, how much help they will get ~o relocate, what they will do bc~een the time that logging is suspended or the landing of fish upon the coast is suspended or they are not allo!<ed to hunt any more in that area or plant their gardens or guide or cater to tourists? Hhat are the people going to do, Hr. Speaker, from the time that those activities are suspended to the ti!l'.e tha:t this grc;J.t tourist industry arises and starts to re-employ theGJ?

And how many of them? MR HYRDE::.: Go to work at Co:ne-By-Chan.ce. !ffi. CALLA!~~<: The han. gentleman might be surprised. It is a very good thing we ha'."e a Co:ne by Chance where hC"n. gentle:r.cn are concerned. ~K. CROSoi!: Big oil wells. HR. CALLAP~'0l: The point is, Xr. Speaker, what do the people 'do in the mean- time? Do they go on welfare that the hon. gentleman says does not exist in Sally'!l Cove. All rigl-~t, but how long, ho~-1 long will it not exist? If they lose a livlihood tor.1.orrm-•, if the place is closed up and they are told they have to pave, what happens then1 MR.

MYRDS~!: You have h3d the last three years to plaa for this. MR. CALLAEA::: So, ~!r. Speaker, that is ~.o·hat we have been doing and that is why bon. gentleman opposite have been on my back and try~ng to blackr.oil this Government to stop. the planning. No'll they say,•...,hy have you not been planning?" We have been planning, Hr. Speaker, and tl1at is why this document is here· today. }ffi. MYRD~~: But you were ready to sign it half a dozen times. ~'n. CALI.AHA:l: 1-le vill sit;n it and tell the han. gentleman this; if the telephone shculd ring no·.; ;mJ the r::tnistcr shoul-d say \.IC accept this p:-ogram 1?32

April 8th, 1970 Tape 391 J}1 - 4 MR.. C~'\Ll..l\HA~~: in prlnciple and substantial detail, I. thin~~ I can fairly say on behalf of the Government this minute we t.zould sign it to:corrow morning or tonig!l t or as soon as they ~ant it signed. MR. ~lYRDEN: I thought you had it si~ned already. ~l'R. CAJ.LAl!,\:-1: But that, that is bcc3use 1,;c have taken the time to look at it, Ye have taken the tiJ:Jc to '!.?ark it out, we have taken the time to do the economics of it and see what the real benefits are and now Ye kncw,a~d we know that the real benefit is about o:~e hundred jobs.

MR }f!P.DE~: You did not inform the public every step of the "~Nay? ~l'R CALLAP-~;: That is the hen. gentle~an's opinion. So, l-lr. Speaker. '~e have done the research and the planning. tole know what we are talking about and we are not prepared to accept a proposal or the force of this Resolutioo which would raqui~c us to prvceed to sign an agreement to establish another wilderness ?ark, to put around 600 square miles of our territory a fence, and say; "There is salvation". Because, Mr. Speaker, there is not salvation. Hon. gent!emen may bleat and b~wl about it but it is a fact, Mr.

Speaker, that the best estimate ;.re have been able to col:'.e to is that the employment associated with that park, tra~::.slatcd into full-ti:r.e jobs, would a~JOU'I'.t to about 100 jobs, which m:i.ght be .:;co jobs, part-tir.ie, or might be 600 jobs, part-tioe, but th.c.t "Would be very, very p<lrt-t:l.me. We have the figures, Mr. Speaker. They are here. They are not my figures. Ttey are no:: chis Govern~cnt's fi~Jres.

They a=e the i~for:r.ation supplied to us by the National Parks Bra~ch. • If hon. gentlenen ;.rill refer co pag.: 11 of the twenty questions co.r.cerning Gras Morne Park, they will see what the e~plo~ent is across the country. And the best you can get is B~~ff, which is the bigbest and ~ost famous, I suppose. At least it vies with G~sper. ~!r. Spe~ker, what it comes do~n to is, across the country a total of 2,100 full-ti~e job equivalents. As I say, that might be 4,000 or 5,000 part-tine jobs. !hat is throughout the whole system, Nr.

Speaker, in every P-.:ovince, in the Federal Service, in Ot:awa and in the Regions, engineers, rr.en picking up papers, clerks, stenogr~phers, right u;> to th~ Di::c~tor of ":-:tion:ll Parks, 2,100 full-tir.:c jobs. Nov does anyone seriou~1y Stl~t--: ~s.:J ~:-.;: i;,: :;.:-!'$ been seriously su~gcstcd that all we have to do, Hr~· Sp.~:~kcr, is ~1ir,n the aj;rccment, turn 17~3 -·'

April 8th, 1970 Tape 3'Jl JH - 5 HR. CALI.!.!lA:'i: ' over the land and there vill be 500 or 600 jobs iy.t::;edi~tcly in th.:lt area or alternately th:Jt: ue -:.:ill get or:e (,undred jobs for e>-ery 10,000 visitors ~o:h!ch in the case of Terra Nova would be 2bout 3,000 jobs, }fr. Speaker, in Bonavista Bay today. The equivalent of 3,000 jobs as a result of Terra Nova Park and the bon. gentleroan -w-ho wrote that, hon. or othe:::-wise, indicated that the people of Bonavista Bay would certainly c.gree that Terra No11a had been a great thing, it had solved the problems of Bonavista Ec.y. Mr.

Speaker, the figures made up on the basis c.f one hundred men, or a hundred jobs equivalent for every 9,615 visitors, so ue call it 10,000. One hut!dred to 10,000 • 307,000 visitors, 3,000 jobs HR. S!1ALL\iOOD: Pretty good, that is the way to get :-lew-foundland going, get lots of parks. · He should make the -whole Province a park and there will be no uncm,-loymen~. MR CALLAH.-\:i: That is the ans·..rer. ~!R SPEAKER: Order! l1R CALLA ciA~!: That is the ans...,er, Hr. Speaker. It goes further than that, of cou~se, if one wishes to disect the fig~res and really consider ~hat they mean.

If it is true, as has b~en claimed, th0t every visitor to a national park spends between twLnty-five dollars and forty dollars, ~;hich n:eans that: every family of four, on every visit, spend $160, you will find that every one of these full-time jobs is responsible for a unit ou~~ut of value, if y3u carry t:he equasion along, of $400,000, per m~n, per season. It vould mear, to say that every full-time job j_n the,t park was tu=ning out $400,000 ·.:orth of _value into the economy in two and a-half months. Mr.

Speaker, if we c~n achieve that rate of . economy there is no problem with Canada - MR s:'L'.l.Ll;:)OD: Is this as it is in all the other parks across Canada? MR C.-\LUJL\~~: This is the equivalent. This is the equasion th~t -we are told will apply if we develop a park at Bonne Bay, a wilderness park. Now, Hr. Speak~r. on the theory or not the theary actually but on the basis of the strong indic.:.tion that the hon. gentlcBan had not really read nor absorbed some of the information, much of the information in the document, may I remind the House. 173:1 ...-'

April 8 1970 Tape no 392 Pa ge 1 the bi~gcst n:ltional park east of !·la:litcba. It '•'ill also be by far the biggest national park created in more thnn forty years in Canada, and only the great parks in the 1\est; particularly Hood Buffalo, the great "ldlderncss park and Jasper and .Banff, Prince Albert, Riding Hountain, all of ;.•hich a:::e huge tr.ountain "l..'"ild.ernesses. Only those parks, Hr. Speaker, vill be bigger than Gros ~: orne and no other will be as big. I may be asked why there have been no Lajor national parks created in forty years? Indeed, }!r.

Speaker, v:e can go further and ask w!1y there are no national parks in the province of Quebec and why the total national park area in the province of Ontario is about t\.'elve square IF•iles? HR. S~l-\LLI-:OOD: z-:ational. MR. ClJ~L-\1!.~,~· National Park, altogether t'".relve square '.niles in the province of Ont~rio. :1-!R. S}u-\LU:OOD: National Parks. MR.. CALLAHP.J:: By the "~-·:ay, Hr. Speak~r, there are Provincial Parks. They have some soall ones and some u~jor ones and in some majc~s; particularly Algonquin, '-'nicn is a very fair.ous rark, there is incidentally resource processing and resource use.

There is certainly tirn~~r usa. tk. Speaker, here perhaps is a revealing piec~ of infor~~ticn fro~ the Globe and ~!ail on the 8 J.:n1ua.ry, this ye<~r. The story indi.::atef' that Mr. Rene Brunelle, }!inister of Lands and Forests for Onatrio is neg~tiating vith }!r.Chretien, the hon. John Ch:.:etien, the t::!:.lister of Indian affairs and Northern Development of the Govern~ent of C~nada, to establish a major national park in Ontario.

The story says in the second pararraph: "unlike other provinces, Ontario has no national park of appreci~ble s~ze and previous att e mpts to reach Federal-Provin~ial agree:::ent bog:,:;ed dotm because of t~'o TI'~jor oifferences. Ott.:.wa has traditionally insisted that Ontario p.:.y the full cost of acquiring the park land. Ontario in turn has calked, over the thought of turning over to the Federal Governr. 1ent potentially valuuble mineral and timber resources in a pilrk site.'' ~IR. S:·l'\LUIOOD: Th<lt is rich Ontario. HR ~~I-!.L./:!1~~~-- }!r.

Speaker, "li"C are so .. ·ell of down here that we can afford to talk about, give it up, h;:tnd it over~ do not ask que:;tions, do not try 1735

April 8, 1970 Tape no. 392 to bargain, it is none of your business - the Go·.rernmcnt of Cim.::>.d.:: Hi.11 rlPr:i d~ '"'P:> t the park is going to be like and ~.-hat is going to go in it a tid what is goiug to be provided. Ti:at is what we have been advised, Xr. Speaker, from the bon. gentleman on the other side. llr. Speaker, either we have been so advised or the newspapers are obviously are liars, newsp~per reporters are li~rs. Hr.

Spe.:!-:,;er, we have been told that it is none of our business, that we have no right to bargain, that ~·e should not argue, that we should crawl into our o~~ little quite corner and be quiet a~d let the Federal Government take what it wants for park purposes. The Government of Ontario does not say that, Hr. Speaker. There is another reference in the Globe and ~!ail on the 31 January: "Ont<J.rio by this time appears to have agreed in principle to a new national park and an exteusion to a present one." The announcement has not been made yet at this point.

Again the story says that Ontario ranks behind all other provinces except Prince Eduard Island in space devoted to national parks. ·This is be~ause unlike ~ost other provinces, Ontario h<:>s been unwilling to turn over land uith :llneral or timber resoun:es to the Federal Government. Another prohlem fer. ~he province has been Otta<,ra 1 s traditional insistence that provinces pay the full cost of land acquisition. Mr. Speaker, I say aeain that NC are so well of and so rich - we are so much better of than Ontario that we can afford to pla)' fast and loose >>ith the resource areas that we have in tnis Province.

The other point, Xr. Speaker, and it is a very valid one. It has been raised here tojay. It has been raised on the radio. It has been raised in the ne~:spaper and that is our argu:r.et:t, this Gcvern!:'.cnt 1 s argucent that if a national park area and the resources it contains is going to be turned over for a national purpose, then the nation should bear the cost and this has been ridiculed and l'pcoh-poohed", Hr. Speaker, as a silly argu~ent - ~e are going to ask Otta~a for the money, ana they are not going to give.it and we wish they would, but they will not. We have heard it again today.

The Government of Ontario, N::. Speaker, docs not mind telling the Government of Canada that it should pay for lands and rights it desires for natiouill purposes nor indeed docs the Gcvern~::cnt of llritish 1736

}.pr~l 8, 1970 Tape no. 392 Colu:r .bia a:~d it n::y int:ercst the House> to know th~t- -:'•~!":!C!;: i:h!:: ~::: ~:::!.:!.:::~ delay on the Bonne Bay Park, ~e h.:!.ve reached an agreew.ent in principle with the Federal Gover=.ent, t:1at -we should not lose the benefit in tl:is Province of wh.:. t rr.ay be provided as an advantage to other provinces, and since they are in fact paying that poor province cf British Col~~ia large amounts of money towards the acquisition of lands for a national pari<, that perh.:!.ps they m:lgh t just consider paying over some to us as well. Hr.

Speaker, I say that if the Goverm::ent of Car:".ada are prepared to compensate the Governr::ent of British ColW!iliia, then how t'luch more s!1ould .,.,,e go and seek compensation? British Colu;;iliia, as the othe1· provinces, has gotten the various benefits, the various progra!l'.s .. ·for the provision at Federal expense of facilities in and in connection with national parks a!l down through tr:e years. Our misfortune i.s that we lost the eighty-five years during which all these things were done and now ~e are being asked not to try tt. recover them. A deal can be made and you can bargain, end should.

There has been al0t of talk, Hr. Speaker, about how the Goveornutent of Canada set the rules and if they say, this is the way it is, ~hat is the last word. We have been tole that we have to han.d ovo:r the land. It has to be vested in the Government of Canada in their o~~ership a~d for that purpose we have to obtain the land, pay the cost of it and hand it over to them unencumbered forever. Mr. Speaker, it might be interesting for the House again to knmJ that in the Province of QJebec, the Federal Governr.~ent are going to get into park development on the Gasp~ Pcnins~la, and they are going t~ foot the bill.

They are gain& to build the roads and put in facilities. But, }!r. Speaker, they will not Ot.'1l the land. ::ov we have heard a lot of that from tile hen. gentle:nan fro;n St. Barbe South particularly, and again his side-kick, the hen. gentle~an who sits in another place. The fact is, ~ir. Speaker, that a provincial park in the Province of Quebec, on the Gaspe Peninsula, the Forillion Provincial Park is being leased to the Governrnenc of C~nada ~ho will put in the money, ~ho will put in the facilities and then later on hand it back to Quebec and why? Because, Hr.

Speaker, Quebec like Ontario refuses to ~;ive its territories ov.:!r to the Gover.~:nent of C~nnc! .-:~ ~:~d lock up the resources in them. IJe are askcti to do it. It is dcm.mded that we do it:, 1737

April 8, 1970 Tape no. 392 P<Jf C 4 Is he a>rarc t~<J.t we would r:ot and we flat:tly refuse point blank to give the Govc.rnment of Canada the land ..-here. Terra t;ova ~<ational Park is nc.TO? We refuse point blank to give them that land except on t..,_.o conditions that we laid do~~ and they accepted. One that the annual growth of tiwber, gro;.Jing on that p<.rk would be Ct;t at the }h~·o~foundland Govern:::ent 's direction for a third pulp and p.::.per ll'ill, if it shou'fd and two that they build the Trans Canada Highw.::.y right through it and pave it.

We w.zcle those two conditions <J.nd they accepted them and carried thet:~ out. But we are not allowed to make conditions for this one on the West coast~ Ml' .. CALLJIJL'-)1: Hhat has been suggested, Sir, if the hem. u:ember for Hut:lber East will open his ears and listen? \·!hnt has been scggested is that ~re have no right to bargain, that tbe Govermr.eut of Canada zrre: going to make the decisions a.-r.d we: have nothing to say and this has been suggested ti~ and time and time again and these are some of the clippings to prove it. Hr.

Speaker, it is quite so that the sustained yield growth of timber in the Terra Nova National Park !:lay be harv~sted at the discretion of this Gover.u:::ent ana the higin ,•ay was a consideration. MR. S~IAI.Ll.:oOD: Only at the discretion ef this Government provided thi~ Govern;t:ent says it is for the third pulp and paper cill. iie have no other discretion. It mcst be for the third - this is in writing. HR. CALLAHAN: I believe, too, that there are:, as I rerr.ember the 2.greer.lF.nt, there are areas, additional are2.s ~·hich rr;ay be added and there is al~o reference to ~nterpo~er. Conditions can be made. UR.

S~~~Ll:OOD: These vere letters from the Pri;:::; ~!inister of Canada to me and from r.1e to the Prime Hinister of C.::.nada, the la~J of Canada today. The first national park in Canada where the Go·.·ernr.lent of the Province laid down ter:os and conditions and the Gover.-r.~>ent of Canada acce1Jted. }~r. 1-ickersgill and I had the one and only rm1 of our lives over that. I stood firm and I won. John LaSage was the Hinister of ~:orthern Lands at that tir.~e. That was as much as we could get and that was 1Jret?Y good ~hat ve got. MR. SPEAKER: There are no less than four spcnkcrs taking

part in the debate right now. _HR. C~L.Y:!_!~:.:.___ In any event, ~!r. Spc:1ker. I think the case is cle<1r. I think the case is proof that you can ncr,oti.:~tc, thnt · you cnn r.takc a deal, that you 1738

Ap'dl 8, 1970 T.apc no. 3~ 2 cnn get a better deal. }!r. Speaker, there have been no l.!lt.i. matu!ilS. I rese:tt that. There have been no ulti::-.aturr.s. The Governr:ent of Canada vcre delivered and I ~dll say it again, perhaps lnter, the docu:;,;:;nt "hich the hon. gentleman read through so avidly and collT.lc:ntcd on was prep;1red prir.!arily for the eyes of the Government of Canada. l!ost of