Manitoba Hansard — 18 May 2011 (Sitting 48, 39th Legislature, 5th Session)

39-5-48

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Fifth Session - Thirty-Ninth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable George Hickes Speaker Vol. LXIII No. 48 – 1:30 p.m., Wednesday, May 18, 2011 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Ninth Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALLAN, Nancy, Hon. St. Vital N.D.P. ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley N.D.P. ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thompson N.D.P. BJORNSON, Peter, Hon. Gimli N.D.P. BLADY, Sharon Kirkfield Park N.D.P. BLAIKIE, Bill, Hon. Elmwood N.D.P. BOROTSIK, Rick Brandon West P.C. BRAUN, Erna Rossmere N.D.P. BRICK, Marilyn St. Norbert N.D.P. BRIESE, Stuart Ste. Rose P.C. CALDWELL, Drew Brandon East N.D.P. CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan N.D.P. CULLEN, Cliff Turtle Mountain P.C. DERKACH, Leonard Russell P.C. DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk N.D.P.

DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood P.C. DYCK, Peter Pembina P.C. EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside P.C. FAURSCHOU, David Portage la Prairie P.C. GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach P.C. GRAYDON, Cliff Emerson P.C. HICKES, George, Hon. Point Douglas N.D.P. HOWARD, Jennifer, Hon. Fort Rouge N.D.P. IRVIN-ROSS, Kerri, Hon. Fort Garry N.D.P. JENNISSEN, Gerard Flin Flon N.D.P. JHA, Bidhu Radisson N.D.P. KORZENIOWSKI, Bonnie St. James N.D.P. LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. La Verendrye N.D.P. MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St. Johns N.D.P. MAGUIRE, Larry Arthur-Virden P.C. MARCELINO, Flor, Hon. Wellington N.D.P.

MARTINDALE, Doug Burrows N.D.P. McFADYEN, Hugh Fort Whyte P.C. McGIFFORD, Diane Lord Roberts N.D.P. MELNICK, Christine, Hon. Riel N.D.P. MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East P.C. NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom Interlake N.D.P. OSWALD, Theresa, Hon. Seine River N.D.P. PEDERSEN, Blaine Carman P.C. REID, Daryl Transcona N.D.P. ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Rupertsland N.D.P. RONDEAU, Jim, Hon. Assiniboia N.D.P. ROWAT, Leanne Minnedosa P.C. SARAN, Mohinder The Maples N.D.P. SCHULER, Ron Springfield P.C. SELBY, Erin, Hon. Southdale N.D.P. SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St. Boniface N.D.P. STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo P.C. STRUTHERS, Stan, Hon.

Dauphin-Roblin N.D.P. SWAN, Andrew, Hon. Minto N.D.P. TAILLIEU, Mavis Morris P.C. WHITEHEAD, Frank The Pas N.D.P. WIEBE, Matt Concordia N.D.P. WOWCHUK, Rosann, Hon. Swan River N.D.P. Vacant Inkster Vacant Lac du Bonnet

2129 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Wednesday, May 18, 2011 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Mr. Speaker: O Eternal and Almighty God, from Whom all power and wisdom come, we are assembled here before Thee t o f r a m e s u c h l a w s a s may tend to the welfare and prosperity of our province. Grant, O merciful God, we pray Thee, that we may desire only that which is in accordance with Thy will, that we may seek it with wisdom, know it with certainty and accomplish it perfectly for the glory and honour of Thy name and for the welfare of all our people. Amen.

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 40–The Condominium Act and Amendments Respecting Condominium Conversions (Various Acts Amended) Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Minister of Family Services and Consumer Affairs): I move, seconded by the Minister of Housing and Community Development (Ms. Irvin-Ross), that Bill 40, The Condominium Act and Amendments Respecting Condominium Conversions (Various Acts Amended), be now read a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Mackintosh: This bill introduces new protection for condo owners, buyers, and provides for the regulation of condo conversions. Mr.

Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] Bill 300–The Winnipeg Foundation Amendment Act Ms. Marilyn Brick (St. Norbert): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable member for Selkirk (Mr. Dewar), that Bill 300, The Winnipeg Foundation Amendment Act, be now read a first time. Motion presented. Ms. Brick: Mr. Speaker, this bill moves to amend the number of members that it would take to constitute a board. Thank you. Mr. Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] PETITIONS PTH 5–Reducing Speed Limit Mr. Stuart Briese (Ste. Rose): Mr.

Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. And these are the reasons for this petition: Concerns continue to be raised about the number of motor vehicle accidents at the intersection of PTH No. 5 and PR No. 276 and at the intersection of PTH 5 and PR 68. The Rural Municipality of Ste. Rose and the Town of Ste. Rose have both raised concerns with the Highway Traffic Board about the current speed limits on that portion of PTH No. 5 in the vicinity of Ste. Rose du Lac. Other stakeholders, including the Ste. Rose General Hospital, Ste.

Rose and Laurier fire departments, East Parkland Medical Group and the Ste. Rose and District Community Resource Council, have also suggested that lowering the current 100-kilometre-per-hour speed limit on a portion of PTH No. 5 may help reduce the potential for collisions. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request the Minist er of Infrastructure and Transportation to consider the importance of reducing the speed limit on PTH 5 to 80 kilometres an hour in the vicinity of the town of Ste. Rose from the west side of the Turtle River Bridge to the south side of the access to the Ste.

Rose Auction Mart to help better protect motorist safety. This petition is signed by G. Boerchers, A. Shwaykosky, G. Boerchers and many, many other fine Manitobans. Mr. Speaker: In accordance with our rule 132(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to be received by the House. Auto Theft–Court Order Breaches Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): Good afternoon, Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly.

2130 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 18, 2011 The background to the petition is as follows: On December 11th, 2009, in Winnipeg, Zdzislaw Andrzejczak was killed when the car that he was driving collided with a stolen vehicle. The death of Mr. Andrzejczak, a husband and a father, along with too many other deaths and injuries involving stolen vehicles, was a preventable tragedy. Many of those accused in fatalities involving stolen vehicles were previously known to police and identified as chronic and high-risk car thieves who had court orders against them.

Chronic car thieves pose a risk to the safety of all Manitobans. We petition the Legislative Assembly as follows: To request the Minister of Justice to consider ensuring that all court orders for car thieves are vigorously monitored and enforced. And to request the Minister of Justice to considering ensuring that all breaches of court orders on car thieves are reported to police and vigorously prosecuted. Mr. Speaker, this petition is signed by B. Feenstra, C. Grath, S. Lips and thousands of other concerned Manitobans. Bipole III–Cost to Manitoba Families Mr.

Blaine Pedersen (Carman): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows: Manitoba Hydro has been directed by the provincial government to construct its next high-voltage direct transm ission line, Bipole III, down the west side of Manitoba. This will cost each family of four in Manitoba $11,748 more than an east-side line– [interjection] than an east-side route, which is shorter and more reliable.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to build the Bipole III transmission line on the shorter and more reliable east side of Lake Winnipeg in order to save each Manitoba family of four $11,748. And this petition is signed by A. Bennet Waugh, G. Waugh, L. Bennet and many, many more fine Manitobans. * (13:40) MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS Flooding and Ice Jams Update Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister responsible for Emergency Measures): The Assiniboine River is expected to see its second crest upstream of the Portage Diversion later tonight at around 52,000 cfs.

Due to very favourable weather over the last week, the tributaries have dropped off and we are not expecting to see the worst-case forecast, the 56,000 cfs that was a possibility last week. This favourable weather has also greatly improved the working conditions around the dikes and helped officials better manage weak spots that were rapidly appearing. Despite this favourable weather, I need to stress that the risks that come along with these extremely high flows remain. Just this morning, crews monitoring the integrity of the Portage Diversion found a new area of concern and are following up accordingly.

The diversion is operating at more than 30 per cent above its normal maximum capacity and is under significant strain. We have been able to minimize the flows out of the controlled release point to date, but this important relief point in the system remains a critical part of the ability to adapt to changing conditions and manage the record flows on the Assiniboine in a safe and controlled manner. The rising Lake Manitoba levels continue to be an area of provincial focus. Approximately 60 provincial staff have been in St. Laurent assisting efforts to fill sandbags this week.

An additional stockpile of 100,000 provincial sandbags has been delivered for use by cottagers and residents over the long weekend, and, actually, I can update that to 356,000 having been provided. And, I want to indicate that this spring's flood has broken many records, and its scope and scale have presented many new challenges for our flood forecasting team, as well as municipal and provincial flood fighters. As always, we will be using these experiences to help improve our ability to fight future floods and guide improvements to our enviable permanent flood protection infrastructure network.

May 18, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2131 It is through the lessons that we have learned in the past that we have built the strong floodfighting and emergency management system that we have now, and we will continue to improve it with each and every flood we face together as Manitobans. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Stuart Briese (Ste. Rose): Mr. Speaker, I thank the minister for his latest update on the flood situation. Heavy attention continues to be focused on matters such as the deliberate breach in the Assiniboine River dike.

We appreciate all efforts that have been undertaken to try and minimize the impact. Special thanks must also go to the military personnel working so diligently along the Assiniboine River dikes to maintain the integrity of this system. Although the soldiers may not be readily visible to the public, the importance of their work cannot be understated. We continue to receive calls from those impacted by the high levels of Lake Manitoba in places such as Lynchs Point, Big Point, Twin Lakes beaches, The Narrows and many other communities.

People around the lake are working to protect their properties, and they certainly appreciate any resources that can be sent their way to assist with that. Ranchers and farmers are working quickly to relocate livestock and equipment away from the rising waters. We recognize that the effects of this widespread flooding will be felt for some time, be it in the form of evacuations, business disruption, property damage, effects on livestock and crop production and municipal and provincial infrastructure damage. As always, sound communications between government and those affected by the flooding is key.

We encourage the government to provide as much information as it can to those affected as quickly as possible, especially when it comes to matters such as the flood forecasting and compensation programs, among other matters. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, I ask leave to speak to the minister's statement. Mr. Speaker: Does the honourable member have leave? [Agreed] Mr. Gerrard: Mr.

Speaker, I want first and foremost today to commend all those who are involved in fighting the flood, from government officials to our Armed Forces to the many, many workers and volunteers who are participating on a daily basis and continuing to support these efforts. Mr. Speaker, I know there are reports today that there may have been some miscalculations in the extent of the flood along the Assiniboine River, and this may have impacted the decision to make the cut in the Assiniboine River dike.

But I think even though we begin to look at what's happened, it's very important that we keep our primary focus on those who are being affected right now and in minimizing further flooding damage and ensuring people are safe and that workers and businesses can get back to their normal activities as soon as possible. We're certainly thankful for the favourable weather and hope that this continues, in light of the people who are being most impacted right at the moment.

Certainly it's those who are evacuated, those who have businesses which cannot operate in places like Brandon and, of course, many, many people along the shores of Lake Manitoba, from the Twin Lakes beaches, St. Laurent, Delta Beach and other communities and, of course, many farmers and ranchers around Lake Manitoba who are being impacted severely, as well as these people along the Fairford River, including the community of Fairford and at Lake St. Martin, including the community of Little Saskatchewan and the community of Lake St. Martin. And these areas will be affected for quite some time to come.

In the area–case of Lake St. Martin, the peak there may not be till late June or early July. So we have a lot yet to do, and we mustn't forget those who are affected last, because they are impacted a great deal. Introduction of Guests Mr. Speaker: Prior to oral questions, I'd like to draw the attention of honourable members to the Speaker's Gallery where we have with us today, we have the 2011 Legislative Building tour guides. They are Rachèle Bosc, Lauren Schwab, Lauren Roberts and Erica Siddall. They are accompanied by Vanessa Gregg and she is the Visitor Tour Program manager.

And also in the Speaker's Gallery we have the Auditor General, Carol Bellringer, and Daniel Mukuria from the Kenya National Audit Office. Also in the public gallery we have with us from the North End Sponsorship Team, we have Reverend Annemarie MacIntosh, Reverend John Kunkel and Elisabeth Kunkel, and Jim Mair who are the guests of the honourable member for Rossmere (Ms. Braun).

2132 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 18, 2011 And also in the public gallery we have from Van Walleghem School, we have 23 grade 8 students under the direction of Ms. Tannis Kyle. This school is located in the constitu ency of the honourable Official Opposition–or the Leader of the Official Opposition (Mr. McFadyen). And on behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you all here today. ORAL QUESTIONS Lake Manitoba Flooding Mitigation Information for Residents Mr.

Hugh McFadyen (Leader of the Official Opposition): At the outset, again we just want to thank and acknowledge those many volunteers and officials throughout the province of Manitoba who have responded with incredible efforts over the past 10 days or so in connection with the unexpected flooding through the Assiniboine Valley. And, in particular, Mr.

Speaker, we are more impressed with every passing day with the incredible efforts of the Canadian Armed Forces who are out there providing information, providing support and providing incredible amounts of effort and labour on those dikes and in various other ways to protect the property and homes of the people of Manitoba. Mr. Speaker, with the very challenging circumstances around Lake Manitoba, in

part caused by the added flow going through the Portage Diversion, there are efforts under way by local homeowners and others to protect property up and down the lake. We continue to receive reports of significant areas that as of today still haven't had the level of support they require from the government in terms of the protection of property around the lake. The major concern, Mr. Speaker, is that any kind of storm with rising waters will inflict very significant damage and it could happen on the east, south or west shores of that lake, many of which remain vulnerable.

Can the government indicate what steps they are taking to ensure that all of those people around the lake who have an interest in that property, who have homes and livelihoods, are going to be protected by this government? Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister responsible for Emergency Measures): Well, Mr. Speaker, we've been signalling over the last number of weeks the clear challenge on Lake Manitoba: historic high water levels, the highest since regulation. We have particularly flagged the particular challenge in terms of wind and wave set-up events.

We faced that challenge in the south basin over the last week, and communities in areas such as twin beaches, Delta Beach and St. Laurent were impacted. There's currently a south wind, which means that we are also facing challenges in Meadow Portage, Spence Lake, Benake Point and Woods Creek. We have been mobilizing significant volunteers there. There was 275 volunt eers and there were 60 provincial staff. And I want to indicate–and I know the member for Lakeside (Mr. Eichler) ha d raised this concern; I know the member for Inte rlake (Mr. Nevakshonoff) has also raised concerns about sandbags.

We've had 30–356,000 sandbags delivered and filled over the last 48 hours. And we are stepping up–stepping in for Lake Manitoba. We know there' s a real challenge there and it's going to be a long haul over the summer and into the fall, and we're stepping up our flood protection efforts in the area. * (13:50) Assiniboine River Compensation Information for Residents Mr. Hugh McFadyen (Leader of the Official Opposition): Mr. Speaker, the minister has indicated some of those communities that are facing threats as a result of a south wind, and he is correct about that.

And I would add to that list properties along Lundar Beach, as well, which are on the point that goes into the lake, which are quite concerned about south winds, and those along the other shores are concerned about north winds and winds from the northwest. And I just want to ask the minister: In addition to the protection measures which continue to be required around that lake, there are many, many voices in the province of people who've been impacted by the flood looking for clarity on the issues of compensation.

We note that some of the details are now coming out as they make various media comments, and the minister has said that there will be no aggregate limits on claims. The Premier (Mr. Selinger) indicated that he didn't think deductibles were appropriate and also that homeowners, farmers and businesses would be included within the special compensation package.

May 18, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2133 Can he confirm that these are the parameters of the program, and when can Manitobans expect to get the remaining details? Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister responsible for Emergency Measures): Well, I want to stress that our first priority is to protect Manitoba, Manitoba homes and businesses, and we've seen a significant mobilization during this flood period. And I want to put on the record, as we deal with a historic flood, we have never seen a flood in recorded history equivalent to this on the Assiniboine.

The efforts of our provincial– An Honourable Member: Ninety-seven. Mr. Ashton: Well, the member does say–says '97. I said about the Assiniboine. There was no flooding in the Assiniboine in 1997; the flood was in the Red River. It was a historic flood in the Red River. This is 1997 in the Assiniboine Valley and then some, and I don't want to underestimate whatever happened in 1997. I want to put on the record the historic mobilization that we've seen over the last period of time, whether it's in Brandon, whether it's in the RM of Portage, whether it be any of the RMs that are affected in the Assiniboine Valley.

I want to thank the military. I want to thank the municipalities and the volunteers. And, right now, as we are seeing the crest in Brandon and we're seeing the crest move through this, sort of, arm, we're focusing very much on Lake Manitoba. We are assembling any and all available resources. Just as we met the challenge on the Assiniboine, we're going to meet the challenge on Lake Manitoba by working with Manitobans. Mr. McFadyen: Mr.

Speaker, we acknowledge that in the government's panic over the last 10 days, that there has been a significant mobilization because they were caught unaware of what was coming, and last Sunday efforts began to take these steps. There have been remarkable efforts taken by the Forces, by volunteers, by officials, by everybody involved, but the fact remains that there are many people who have yet to get the help that they need in terms of protection and many others asking questions about compensation. The member for Brandon East (Mr.

Caldwell) last night in Brandon said that he didn't know when the details would become available in terms of disaster assistance. He said that those concerns should be taken directly to the provincial government, and so that's what we do today. When is the provincial government, Mr. Speaker, going to provide some details on the compensation programs for those many Manitobans who are waiting anxiously and trying to plan their lives around what may be coming? We've had some details come out. We're encouraged by those details. When are they going to confirm them?

When are they going to communicate them to the people impacted? Mr. Ashton: Well, Mr. Speaker, I don't think the use of the term "panic" describes in any way, shape or form the response of the people in Brandon, the response of the people in the Assiniboine Valley. And I want to put on the record that as we've seen in Brandon where the forecast was 1,184 feet, it peaked at 1,182.89 feet.

I want to put on the record that that community and the resources and support from the provincial government, from the federal government and from the Armed Forces and in terms of the huge volunteer effort has dealt with a flood that is higher than any recorded in history. So, you know what the story, Mr. Speaker, of this flood is? This is Manitoba. When it comes to floods, we deal with those challenges. We do it by working together. We don't panic. We get the job done. We focus on flood protection: No. 1 job last week; No. 1 job for Lake Manitoba the next few weeks. Shoal Lakes Flooding Drain Options Mr.

Ralph Eichler (Lakeside): Mr. Speaker, the First Minister's decided not to proceed with the proposed Wagon Creek Drain in the Shoal lakes area, a plan presented by nine affected municipalities. So what happens now? The lives, livelihoods of people who live here and near the lakes are being affected by rising waters. These lakes have no outlet, just like Devils Lake. Some of the Shoal lakes water could start going out the Grassmere Drain, which cannot handle a lot, also the Sturgeon Creek Drain, which is in line with CentrePort and St. James. The people in the immediate vicinity of the Shoal lakes need answers.

Those who could be affected by out-flowing waters from the Shoal lakes need to know what their options are.

2134 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 18, 2011 Mr. Speaker, since the Wagon Creek Drain is off the table, can the First Minister tell those affected by the Shoal lakes flooding how this government intends to manage this very serious issue? Hon. Christine Melnic k (Minister of Water Stewardship): Well, Mr. Speaker, we've been meeting with citizens and elected officials of the RMs that are affected by the Shoal lakes waters. We have been talking to them about a number of options. We've asked them to come together on an option. We respect that there are lots of different concerns.

We respect that there are lots of different issues. We respect that there are upstream concerns, and in the Grassmere, there are dow nstream concerns. We're also working with the RMs in those areas. This is not a quick fix, Mr. Speaker, and we have to make sure that we get the right solution for the right people at the right time. Mr. Eichler: People's lives, properties, communities, land values, businesses and a whole host of other issues are being affected by the rising Shoal lakes. We have said as far back as 2002 that something must be done.

The lakes are filled to the brim and water keeps moving, swallowing up homes, thousands of acres of farmland. These waters won't be receding any time soon. People have built their homes in this region years ago, and farmers that have made their living off the land are in harm's way. Who knows how many others could be affected if a breach would occur. Mr. Speaker, people affected by the Shoal lakes need some answers, and believe you me when I say I need them now. What is the government's action plan? Ms. Melnick: We also, through this spring high-water event, have been working with people.

I want to thank my colleague, the minister for MAFRI, who met with concerned citizens a couple of weeks ago. There has been a lot of work done by MAFRI with producers, making sure that their livestock is safe, making sure that feed is available, making sure if any livestock needs to be moved, it's moved; it's being moved. And MAFRI is doing this not only in that area, but throughout the province. We are dealing with a real-time event right now, Mr. Speaker. We were dealing on a long-term plan before this event. We'll continue to work with communities after on a long-term event.

Right now, we're dealing with what is happening today, on the ground, in real time. Mr. Eichler: Mr. Speaker, this issue has been brought to the government's radar for years. The Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Struthers) has seen the devastation first-hand and I thank him for that. Promises of a compensation plan for producers were clearly made, but not when or how much. Homeowners, farmers, ranchers, businesses, emergency services, east-west road connections are all affected, as access to schools and hospitals. The problems expand each time the lakes expand. We cannot wait and see any longer. The crisis is now.

We need to protect Manitobans, be fair to all those already affected. Mr. Speaker, aid promises have been made but not delivered. Those in harm's way need to know they will be protected. Will this government, today, finally outline its short- and long-term strategies to address this serious issue, and will they do it today, Mr. Speaker? Ms. Melnick: Well, Mr. Speaker, we're definitely dealing with the short-term concerns. Again, the Minister of MAFRI has been out dealing with producers. The Premier (Mr. Selinger) was out earlier this week dealing with people. We are looking at the situation in Manitoba.

It's not a panic as members opposite might suggest. It's a rapid response to concerns. It's a rapid response to unprecedented waters and we are dealing with all of Manitoba. Again, we have been working with people in that area on a long-term solution. We don't want to inconvenience someone downstream for the benefit of someone upstream, and people in that area understand that, Mr. Speaker, which is why they're listening to each other. We're working with them. These are unprecedented high waters throughout our province. We have to make the right decisions not just for today but long into the future.

Cattle Industry Relocation of Herds Mr. Cliff Graydon (Emerson): Mr. Speaker, the people in the Shoal lakes area know who created the issue, and it was this government across the way. Mr. Speaker, widespread flooding is present in many different regions of the province. This has created some of the most extreme challenges ever faced by ranchers and farmers. For example, one producer around Lake Manitoba, whose buildings are normally one mile from the lake, now finds the lake

May 18, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2135 is only 300 yards away. Producers, like many others along the lake, are building dikes to protect their homes, buildings, and ranchers are trying to move cattle and equipment at the same time. It's a very serious situation. Mr. Speaker, can the mini ster provide this House with an update as to how many head of livestock need to be moved and how many have been relocated to date? * (14:00) Hon. Stan Struthers (Min ister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Initiatives): Mr. Speaker, it doesn't matter which part of the province the member from Emerson wants to talk about.

Our MAFRI officials have been out there on the scene working with the farmers themselves, the ranchers themselves, to make sure we can identify which farmers do need the assistance. On Lake Manitoba, for example, we have reports today of specific farmers working with our MAFRI people in the area of Lake Winnipegosis. We have farmers out working with our officials at the Lake Manitoba First Nation to help get some cattle off an island that has–and get some feed to the cattle on that island. We're taking extraordinary measures to help, working very well with producers to make sure cattle get fed. Mr.

Graydon: Producers who need to move livestock need information so that they can develop short- and long-term plans for their animals. The challenges facing ranchers are many. They have no pasture. Their feed supply has been flooded. Their access roads are flooded or impassable. Some cattle are stranded on brand new islands, and hay lands are flooded, leaving prospects of future feed supplies very poor. Mr. Speaker, can the Minister of Agriculture tell us how many acres of Crown land and other land the Province has lined up for use for livestock producers, and how is this information being shared with producers?

Mr. Struthers: Well, Mr. Speaker, the member pretty much answered his own question in talking about the kind of assistance that is needed. We're talking with farmers directly about that. We're doing it over the phone. We're doing it face to face. We're doing it on a day-to-day basis, Mr. Speaker. We're doing it through the Manitoba Beef Producers, who have been very co-operative, helping us in determining which of their producers do have their backs against the wall, which of their producers are in the most need, and we've been responding to that. I do want to say, Mr.

Speaker, that I've been very impressed with the kind of work farmers themselves have been doing to protect themselves. And in–[interjection] Well, yes, they can play politics if they like, but you know what? The Manitoba rancher, the Manitoba farmer who's out there trying their best, we're hooking up with them to make sure that they get what they need. You can play politics if you like. We're going to help the Manitoba farmers. Mr. Graydon: Ranchers and cattlemen are fiercely proud and independent individuals who take pride in caring for their families, their livestock and their land.

I've received many calls from producers about the poor level of communications from the provincial government and the overall lack of co-ordination relating to the flooding. Mr. Speaker, this minister has had ample time to prepare a short-term action plan for flooded, affected producers. When will he share this plan with producers, a plan with facts and not rhetoric as he's been doing? Mr. Struthers: Mr. Speaker, my friend from Emerson had better start doing some homework. Mr.

Speaker, this has been going on day to day to day for weeks and months with my staff being in touch with Manitoba ranchers in the exact areas that the member from Emerson is worried about. It's happening every day as we speak. We've been working every day with the Manitoba Beef Producers to–so that they can tell us which of their producers need to have some assistance get to them. We're going to continue that. We're going to do that because we've got so many examples of really practical things happening out there to either move f eed to cattle or cattle to feed.

We've put in place some–we've lifted some restrictions on road conditions. We've lifted–we've incorporated Crown lands that can be used. We're doing that sort of thing, Mr. Speaker, on a day-to-day basis, whether the member across the way admits it or not.

2136 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 18, 2011 Souris Infrastructure Flood Damage Compensation Mrs. Leanne Rowat (Minnedosa): Nearly four weeks ago, Souris faced very serious flood challenges. This included flooding into the sewer treatment facility compound. Emergency diking was constructed to prevent river water from completely flooding the facility. The outflow pipe into the Souris River is currently below water level by approximately two metres, resulting in effluent water not being able to flow normally. This has also caused the river water to backflow and rupture existing pipes.

The community must replace the existing ruptured piping with an outflow system. This expenditure is estimated at $250,000 to $300,000. Mr. Speaker, what assistance can the Town of Souris expect from this NDP government regarding disaster financial assistance for this event? Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister responsible for Emergency Measures): Mr. Speaker, I want to indicate that we indicated some time ago that there would be a disaster financial assistance program. It does apply to municipalities.

It does apply to damage to property, but I can also indicate, the one thing we have already indicated, in addition to the disaster financial assistance program, is that we'll be identifying any and all areas where we have to work on the flood recovery. So if there are expenditures, whether it be on our highway system or in terms of the infrastructure that the member's talking about that aren't eligible under DFA, if they're required as part of the flood recovery, we will move to that. And I want to indicate, Mr.

Speaker, as we still continue to deal with the flooding situation in terms of the flood protection throughout the province, we are already moving on the second stage of the flood recovery stage. And I want to stress again, we already had said three weeks ago that there would be a disaster financial assistance program. Mrs. Rowat: For four weeks Souris has been using a rented tractor, rented pumps to deal with the problem created by the flood event. The pumps are running 24 hours a day, seven days a week, and must be checked several times day and night. This comes at a significant financial cost for the Town.

The staff monitoring the system can take–are taken away from other duties and are exhausted, Mr. Speaker. The Town contacted Manitoba Infrastructure on May 6th explaining the challenge. They asked for assistance on how to proceed with costing and purchasing a new lift station and piping, et cetera. To date no one has called them back. Mr. Speaker, would the minister please tell this House when the Town of Souris can expect a call on this important issue? Mr. Ashton: You know, Mr.

Speaker, we've been dealing with flooding that's unprecedented in scale throughout this province, and I certainly appreciate the call that was made, but if you consider the fact that our MIT staff have been working 24-7 on maintaining the dikes in the Assiniboine Valley, protecting people in that community, protecting people in Brandon, working in emerging situations right around Lake Manitoba, I think the member might understand that our staff is working, in terms of the flood protection side, 24-7. That may mean some delays in responding to some inquiries.

But I want to put on the record that they're working round the clock, Mr. Speaker, and when it comes to a situation as that, as we move from the urgent issues and the emergent issues we're dealing with, we will work on the flood recovery stage with any and all communities throughout the province, but I'd ask the member to show a little bit of understanding of the scale that we're dealing with in this province. And, by the way, we're not dealing with it through panic, Mr. Speaker. This is Manitoba. We deal with those challenges and we deal with it by standing together. Mrs.

Rowat: But I guess the community wants–is a phone call back, Mr. Speaker. That's the least that this government can do. Mr. Speaker, the Town of Souris has done everything it can to address this situation. They diked the sewer treatment facility. They implemented a stop-gap measure to deal with the problem. They contacted Manitoba Infrastructure to begin the replacement process and they have begun the process of costing the project. Mr. Speaker, in conversation with Disaster Financial Assistance, the Town was told that DFA could not comment on funding for this type of project.

Can the minister please tell the House when the community of Souris can expect a decision on whether this project will actually qualify for DFA?

May 18, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2137 Mr. Ashton: Mr. Speaker, I think the member is somewhat confused. I thought she said that they hadn't received an answer and then she said someone had called back and said that they weren't eligible. But I do want to indicate, Mr. Speaker, I am somewhat disappointed the member wouldn't do what the member for Lake side (Mr. Eichler) has done on the situation in St. Laurent. He approached me directly, said there was a problem in terms of a lack of sandbags–and, by the way, we have sandbags in St. Laurent as we speak.

I would just advise the member as well, too, I note it was only a few weeks ago that I think she was criticizing us as a government for having a sandbag machine that was sitting idle. I want to indicate to the member on the record: Thank goodness that we had the foresight to buy that sandbag machine. It's been working 24-7 protecting Manitoba. Lake Manitoba Fairford Dam Usage Mr. Stuart Briese (Ste. Rose): Mr. Speaker, I asked the Minister of Water Stewardship yesterday if the Fairford outlet at Lake Manitoba was used to capacity in the months leading up to this spring's flood and I was given no answer. Mr.

Speaker, the Minister of Water Stewardship has now had time to consider the question overnight. Was the Fairford outlet used to capacity in the months leading up to this spring's flood to help draw down Lake Manitoba? * (14:10) Hon. Christine Melnic k (Minister of Water Stewardship): Yes, Mr. Speaker, I'm just looking at the answers given yesterday and reading from it. This is Hansard from yesterday in response to the member's question: The Fa irford control structure has been running for several months.

The capacity to draw down, to draw water through the Fairford control structure, depends on whether it is ice covered, depends on whether there is frazil ice, depends on the level of Lake Manitoba. So we have been drawing down at the capacity that the control structure can bear for several months now. I'll be happy to give him a copy of this that he can keep. Mr. Briese: Mr. Speaker, farmers, ranchers and property owners see their properties and livelihoods disappearing under the rising water of Lake Manitoba.

Ranchers are scrambling to relocate cattle as acres and acres of pasture and hay lands are being swallowed up. Businesses along the lake are being adversely affected. Many people living in the area have come to me with serious questions about the level of Lake Manitoba. They're asking whether more could have been done to prevent the lake from reaching the levels we are seeing today. The levels at Fairford–on April the 6th the output at Fairford was 9,000 cfs. The capacity is far beyond that. Mr.

Speaker, would the Minister of Water Stewardship explain to the House today why the Fairford outlet wasn't used to capacity to lower Lake Manitoba prior to the spring flooding? Ms. Melnick: I could read the remainder of my question–of my answer to the same question yesterday, Mr. Speaker, but I'll give it to the member opposite. I want to inform the House that Fairford is drawing at capacity for the lake level today, which is about 14,000 cfs. If lake levels rise, it can draw more. If lake levels go down, it will be drawing less.

But it has been working at capacity, as has Jenpeg, as has the Shellmouth Dam for several months now, Mr. Speaker, as on this side of the House we have been preparing to protect Manitobans and their communities for a long time now. Mr. Briese: The rising levels of Lake Manitoba have been very– [interjection]–very serious consequences for property owners around the lake. People are scrambling to move livestock and protect their properties. People around Lake Manitoba are raising concerns that they do not believe that the Fairford outlet was used as extensively as it might have been. Mr.

Speaker, can the Minister of Water Stewardship explain why she did not take more action to address the level on Lake Manitoba in anticipation of the spring flooding? Ms. Melnick: There's an interesting line in this questioning, Mr. Speaker. The member is not at all concerned of people upstream on Portage–or Assiniboine; no is he–nor is he concerned about people in the First Nations communities around the Fairford control structure; nor is he concerned about people in Lake St. Martin, and I'm not even sure if he's concerned about all the people around Lake Manitoba. Shame on the member opposite.

2138 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 18, 2011 We are concerned about all Manitobans. We are balancing the flow of this water, unprecedented, 50 per cent more in the Assiniboine basin than in 1976. We're taking care of Manitobans over here, Mr. Speaker. They're playing politics. Violent Crime Rate Government Record Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): Mr.

Speaker, while we've seen the best of Manitobans over the past few weeks, Manitobans helping their neighbours, helping their friends, helping complete strangers in fact, unfortunately we've been reminded that there are some very serious problems facing our province when it comes to violent crime. With four murders this past week, the murder rate has doubled from the same time last year. This is the result of 11 years of empty rhetoric from this NDP, this soft-on-crime NDP government: more violence, more victims, more rhetoric by the NDP.

Why has this Manitoba NDP soft-on-crime government allowed the province to become less safe and more violent under their term in office? Hon. Andrew Swan (Min ister of Justice and Attorney General): Certainly there have been some violent incidents, and I think I speak for all members of this House in offering our sympathy and our condolences to the families of the victims in that situation. And, indeed, Manitobans have the right to be safe in their homes, in their communities. Let me say how much we respect the work of the Winnipeg Police Service and the police services.

In most of these incidents, arrests have already been made. I think we have confidence in our police that arrests will be made. But we know, unlike the member opposite, that attacking crime isn't just about riding to the scene after something has happened. It's about pushing for better laws and creating bett er laws and policies. It's about preventing crime in the first place, as well as supporting our police service. We've got a balanced view. I know the members opposite do not, and in my next answer I'll give more details of the difference between our approach and the approach opposite. Mr. Goertzen: Well, Mr.

Speaker, you know, instead of condolences, maybe the minister could give some concrete actions. You know, he's had 11 years. There were violent beatings of individuals who were just leading their lives, their ordinary lives: a man trying to make a living at a pizza shop, and he was beaten by a 15-year-old; a woman walking down the street, and she was beaten by a 35-year-old; a 70-year-old senior delivering newspapers, violently beaten. In 1999, this NDP government said that they would make our streets safer. Today, we are the violent crime capital of Canada. How much worse, Mr.

Speaker, does it have to get before this NDP government, this soft-on-crime government, will take this seriously? Mr. Swan: And, you know, I'll take the view of Winnipeg Police Chief Keith McCaskill, who was on CBC radio this morning. In addition to pointing out that, in fact, there are reductions in violent crime since the '90s, he also pointed out–he was also very clear that reducing violent crime requires investments in youth programs and prevention. And Chief McCaskill said we've got to start looking at some initiatives to get young people focused on different things.

Chief McCaskill went on to say you can never police yourself totally out of crime. We can certainly do a lot for visible presence and enforcement, but there's got to be that other strategy, the long-range strategy, to correct the situation. So, unlike the members opposite, I stand with Chief McCaskill and the Winnipeg Police Service. And we've added more police officers. We know that's not the whole picture. We've added 110 police officers in Winnipeg alone since 1999. And do you know what? The Conservatives have voted against every single one of them. Mr. Goertzen: Mr. Speaker, a long-range strategy?

They've had 12 years. How much more range do they need? You know, over those 12 years we've seen the reoffence rate go up, up and up. Seventy per cent of adult males who leave Manitoba jails just go and reoffend again within the next two years. This soft-on-crime NDP government is running a revolving door in front of Manitoba jails. Mr. Speaker, they can blame others, they can regurgitate all the press rele ases they want, they can go back and say, we've had announcements, cakes,

May 18, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2139 balloons and candy, but the responsibility for the increase of violent crime leads–sits on this Minister of Justice's desk. I want to ask him: Mr. Minister, if you're not up to the job, why don't you tell us, and we'll find somebody who is up to the job. Mr. Swan: I don't apologize for what this government has done to support police across the province, in Winnipeg, in Brandon, for the RCMP and for communities across the province of Manitoba–again, opposed by the member for Steinbach and opposed by every Conservative member of this House.

I don't apologize for giving the police in Winnipeg a police helicopter by providing operational funding. I don't apologize for working with the Winnipeg Police Service and the Winnipeg Police Association to put police cadets on our street for the first time ever. There'll be 50 of them this year. I know when the member for Steinbach voted against the money for that to happen. I won't apologize for th e Manitoba Integrated Organized Crime Task Force, which took down the Zig Zag Crew and is continuing to take on dangerous criminals on our streets.

I won't apologize for what our Criminal Property Forfeiture Unit is doing. The Hells Angels rode into town when the Conservatives were in power. We've taken away their clubhouse. We're going to keep going after organized crime. We're just not good at empty rhetoric like the member opposite usually comes up with. * (14:20) NOR-MAN Health Authority Minister's Knowledge of Allegations Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr.

Speaker, a full week has passed since the Minister of Health's window-dressing transparency amendments, and we still have a full week that's passed where the minister refuses to be transparent about the resignation of the CEO of the NOR-MAN Regional Health Authority. Mr. Speaker, I ask the Health Minister: When did she know that the CEO appointed his wife to a plum position, and why didn't she do anything about it? Hon. Theresa Oswald (Minister of Health): Yes, Mr.

Speaker, and again, we know that there were some concerns raised by citizens in the NOR-MAN Regional Health Authority, and during those–the raising of those concerns, it was decided to strike an external review team to go in and look at a variety of issues, issues that were being raised concerning administration, issues being raised concerning finances, issues being raised about patient care, very serious issues, Mr. Speaker. And, indeed, we sent the team in there. They've done a very thorough review.

They've spoken to over a hundred individuals and groups, anyone that wished to come forward in confidence as well. The report is in the final days of being prepared, I am informed, and the outcome of that report will be released to the public. Mr. Speaker, and the RHA is committed to act on the recommendations on all issues concerning administration, finances, patient care, the things that matter to citizens of the NOR-MAN Regional Health Authority. Mr. Gerrard: Mr.

Speaker, the same woman, the wife of the CEO of the NOR-MAN Regional Health Authority, was alleged to be involved in one of these financial issues, involved in the nearly $2 million of exaggerated costs. Mr. Speaker, when did the NDP Minister of Health know about the CEO's wife's involvement in these alleged cost rigging, and why did the NDP Minister of Health not do anything to stop it? Ms.

Oswald: And when concerns were raised about a variety of issues in the NOR-MAN Regional Health Authority, we sent in an external review team, and that team, comprised of very competent individuals with experience and insight into the health-care system, has conducted this review. There will be a report coming forward that will deal with a variety of issues that were raised. Mr. Speaker, it is not the first time that this individual member has raised allegations in the House that have proven later not to be true.

I will rely on the information that comes from that review team, the recommendations that come from that to pursue any further investigation. And, frankly, Mr. Speake r, I raised, yesterday, the troubling pattern from this member of putting misinformation on the record, and, frankly, I think today would likely be no different. Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Speaker, amid allegations of cost rigging, corruption and bullying, from the front-line staff, by the CEO and others in the NOR-MAN

2140 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 18, 2011 Regional Health Authority, the NDP Minister of Health has been eerily quiet. In the spirit of the minister's act, when will the minister be transparent without being a bully and tell Manitobans–when will the minister tell Manitobans what she knew about the corruption in the NOR-MAN Regional Health Authority, and why did she do nothing about it? Ms. Oswald: We called for a review. The review is in the process of being completed; the report, thereof, which we're going to release. I reiterated yesterday, and it seems appropriate again, Mr.

Speaker, just in the last couple of months we know that the member opposite has stood in this House, misrepresented what Prof essor Ryan said on the bipole, causing Professor Ryan to send a letter saying this is most regrettable because it is not the case. We know that the member opposite issued a news release, Mr. Speaker, saying that the Minister of Labour (Ms. Howard) condoned youth smoking, which was the most abominable parsing of statements which he later, of course, had to slither away from.

We know that the member opposite also told this Chamber that a citizen had written me a letter, that I hadn't responded, when, in fact, he had been cc'd on a copy of a letter that had a response the very same day. This is a very troubli ng pattern with the member. I would caution him about what he says about members of the public, and I will rely on the recommendation of this review team and most certainly not the troubling falsehoods from the member opposite. Brandon Flooding Post-Secondary Education Facilities Response Ms. Erna Braun (Rossmere): Mr.

Speaker, many individuals and organizations in the city of Brandon have come together to respond to the needs of their community during the flood. Can the Minister of Advanced Education and Literacy advise the Hous e of measures Brandon post-secondary institutions are taking in response to flooding? Hon.

Erin Selby (Minister of Advanced Education and Literacy): And I thank the member for the question because I am proud to put on the record the actions of both Brandon University and Assiniboine Community College and how they're partnering with the City of Brandon and the community to help in–and–in helping in the efforts to reduce the impact of the flood. I know that at Brandon University, right now, the halls are a little bit louder because there are 450 staff and students from a local Brandon elementary school that is–that could be affected by flooding that are now going to Brandon University.

The president of Brandon U tells me that they are loud, but they are great to have around and that many of them have decided they're going to skip high school and just go straight through to university at this point. Brandon University reside nts are also on standby should families need to be evacuated and be housed there as well, and the univ ersity is providing both flexibility to staff and to students, as well, Mr. Speaker, to allow people to help out where needed. And the same thing is going on at Assiniboine Community College: flexible hours to let people help work.

The sandbags are bei ng stored there, the extra sandbags for the city of Brandon as well, and the gym is also on standby should evacuation needed be for there. So–and just one more example of how, when the call goes out for help in Manitoba, Manitobans answer loud and strong, Mr. Speaker. Oak Lake Flooding Mitigation Infrastructures Inspection Mr. Larry Maguire (Arthur-Virden): Mr. Speaker, Oak Lake is still rising from continued flood waters from the Pi pestone Creek, forcing flood-level flows of water towards Souris and the Souris River.

The dam and dike supporting the level of Oak Lake itself have required rock and fill this spring to save the structures and alleviate further flooding downstream. Much sandbagging has been done to protect several properties. The precarious nature of these structures has been raised by–with the department for many, many years. Mr. Speaker, in light of the present flood conditions, can the minister provide an update on the conditions of structures at Oak Lake and the potential of flooding at Souris from a breach occurring as a result of this decrepit infrastructure? Hon.

Steve Ashton (Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation): I certainly appreciate the question from the member. One thing we had not done anytime during the preparation for the flood or during the flood is

May 18, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2141 underestimate the importance of ensuring the integrity of our structures, our physical structures. We engaged in a very significant review of our physical structures, including our bridges. We did do work in a number of areas to shore up bridges and ensure that structures would function, and I do want to indicate that as we, in some areas, are starting to see relief from the flood, particularly in the Red River Valley, we will also post-flood be inspecting our physical infrastructure as well.

We don't underestimate the impact, and one of the key areas of flood recovery will be making sure that our physical infrastructure is maintained for its integrity, and, where necessary, we'll put repairs in as soon as possible. Mr. Speaker: Time for oral questions has expired. Introduction of Guests Mr. Speaker: Prior to moving on, I'd like to draw attention of honourable members to the loge to my right where we have with us, we have Ms. Marianne Cerilli, who is a former member for Radisson. On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you here today. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Melanie Edel Mrs.

Mavis Taillieu (Morris): Mr. Speaker, I rise today to honour Melanie Edel, a 17-year-old grade 12 student from Morris School who is the epitome of a hard-working and an engaged student. Recently, she was honoured with the Premier's Volunteer Award for youth. The award is given to Manitobans under 25 who have made considerable contributions to their community through volunteer work. These youth serve as role models, encouraging other young people to give of themselves for the betterment of the community. This award couldn't have gone to a more deserving student.

Melanie is an exceptional student, has obtained a 95 per cent average in her final year of high school. She's the student council president and captain of the varsity basketball and volleyball teams. Melanie has also played on her school's track and field, soccer, badminton and cross-country teams, but her participation hasn't stopped there. Melanie is a Sunday school teacher, a piano teacher and a swimming instructor. She is the lead for organizing a fundraiser called Set to Save a Life, a 24-hour volleyball tournament to raise funds for the cancer society. Mr.

Speaker, I am especially amazed at Melanie Edel's involvement in an organization that Morris School started five years ago called Kids Caring for Kids. This student group raises awareness for different causes affecting children. In June, Melanie will be leading a team from her school to build a house in Winnipeg through Habitat for Humanity. So far this year, Melanie has won the Ron Meyer Memorial Leadership Award and the Dale Iwanoczko Memorial Volleyball Scholarship.

She was the recipient of the Manitoba School Board Association's citizenship award and has now won the Premier's Volunteer Award. * (14:30) The principal of Morris School, Darren Skog, says Melanie is one of the most outstanding students that has gone through this school. Mr. Speaker, Melanie plans to attend the University of Manitoba in the fall. I know Melanie will continue to strive for excellence and give back to her community as she continues her education. This is a bright, talented young woman with a great future ahead of her, and I wish her every success in her future endeavours. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

North End Sponsorship Team Ms. Erna Braun (Rossmere): Mr. Speaker, I rise today to congratulate one of the winners of this year's Volunteer Service Awards, the North End Sponsorship Team, NEST. Volunteer Manitoba presents awards each year to individuals, organizations and businesses in recognition of the important contributions volunteers make to every community across the province. We are pleased to have Reverend John Kunkel, Elisabeth Kunkel and Reverend Annemarie MacIntosh, the new NEST chairperson, join us today in the public gallery.

The North End Sponsorship Team is a co-operative ministry involving churches from the North End, West Kildonan and East Kildonan that sponsors refugees from oceans away. It began 25 years ago when Elisabeth and John Kunkel and their friends first saw images of famine and war in Ethiopia. The images they saw left such a strong impression on them that they felt compelled to help. NEST began in 1986 as a co-operative ministry of three Lutheran churches in Winnipeg's North End: Redeemer, St. John's and Zion. It now consists of six

2142 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 18, 2011 Lutheran congregations: Christ, Grace, Redeemer, St. John's, St. Luke's-Zion and Trinity, along with two United Church–pardon me, two United congregations: Atlantic-Garden City and Kildonan. So far, this team of dedicated volunteers has sponsored 157 refugees from 18 countries. NEST is a shining example of what individuals and communities working together can accomplish. By offering hope and support to refugees, these volunteers directly impact the lives of the families in transition as well as the communities they eventually call home.

It is through the selfless contributions and dedication of volunteers that our communities are more caring, compassionate places to live. They are among our society's true unsung heroes. I wish to congratulate the North End Sponsorship Team and thank them for giving so much of their time, effort and energy to making Manitoba such a great place to live. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Carman-Dufferin Safe Communities Designation Mr. Blaine Pedersen (Carman): Mr. Speaker, in a ceremony on April 28th, the Town of Carman and the Rural Municipality of Dufferin became the third designated Safe Community in Manitoba.

Safe Communities Canada is Canada's leading community-driven injury prevention charity. The goals of Safe Communities Canada are to make Canada the safest place in the world to live, learn, work and play. This designation signifies that the community has demonstrated its commitment to a culture of safety and prevention of personal injury. Through joint partnerships between the private, public and volunteer sectors of the community, specific priorities have been identified to reduce the risk and burden of injury for our children, seniors, friends and co-workers.

This process began one year ago and initiatives to bring awareness of safety and injury prevention will be ongoing. The Carman-Dufferin communities' leadership team consisted of representatives from the town and RM councils, RHA Central, RCMP, local schools, fire departments, businesses, community groups and interested residents. This team was led by co-chairs Lynne Wilkinson and Debbie Iverson. With their leadership and guidance from Safe Communities Canada, this team collected data and identified the safety priorities of the community. Through public consultation and hard work, they met the designation process.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to commend the Safe Communities committee, the Town of Carman, the Rural Municipality of Dufferin for demonstrating a strong commitment to making our community one of the safest places to live, learn, work and play. They are committed to ongoing participation within the community to enhance the safety and well-being of our homes, farms, workplaces and neighbourhoods. Mr. Speaker, I congratulate the community for their designation from Safe Communities Canada and encourage more communities within Manitoba to follow suit. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Collège Garden City Collegiate 50th Anniversary Hon. Dave Chomiak (Minister of Innovation, Energy and Mines): Mr. Speaker, this May long weekend, alumni and staff will gather to celebrate the 50th anniversary of Collège Garden City Collegiate in Kildonan. Principal Steve Medwick, vice-principal Heather Marks, Tony Kreml, Michelle Jean-Paul, as well as members of the reunion organizing committee, look forward to welcoming former students and their families for what promises to be a fun-filled celebratory weekend.

The reunion will give alumni, staff and their families a chance to celebrate Collège Garden City Collegiate's first 50 years of education excellence. It will also provide organizers with the opportunity to raise $10,000 to create perpetual scholarships for the school's graduates. The weekend is dedicated to the memory of former teacher and alumnus Howard Sinaisky, who was instrumental in organizing the school's 25th anniversary reunion in 1986. To celebrate the significant anniversary, the reunion committee has planned an exciting action-packed three days.

It will kick off with an open house and barbecue on Friday evening. Class reunion pictures will be taken throughout the evening. On Saturday, alumni can go to the Magical History Tour in the morning, participate in school-day activities in the afternoon, and dance the night away at the Winnipeg Convention Centre. The weekend festivities will wrap up on Sunday morning with a pancake breakfast at the school. Over the past 50 years, Collège Garden City Collegiate has embraced many opportunities to improve its facilities to better meet the needs of an ever-changing community.

This process of renewal continues today, as seen by the extensive renovations

May 18, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2143 being undertaken at the school. These include a new naturally common–a new, naturally lit commons area, a new gymnasium and fitness facility. Collège Garden City Collegiate is the only dual-tracks high school in the Seven Oaks School Division, offering programs in both English and French immersion to over 1,300 students by 106 teachers. Mr. Speaker, I'm really looking forward to the honour of sharing in this celebration of Collège Garden City Collegiate's 50th anniversary. It has proudly served its constituents and the broader community since 1961.

May it continue to do so for many years to come. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Northern Manitoba Health Care Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Yes, Mr. Speaker, today I want to talk about the problems in health-care delivery in northern Manitoba. There's a review of the NOR-MAN RHA happening, and last week, the CEO of the NOR-MAN RHA and his wi fe resigned. These matters are drawing daily attention in our province. In addition, there ar e major concerns about what's happening in the Burntwood RHA. In the Burntwood RHA, there's been a decrease in the number of physicians from 34 several years ago down to 23 or 24.

As well, there are con cerns about the nursing situation. The number of nursing vacancies in the BRHA has gone up from 12 in 2006 to 30 in 2009, or an increase of 250 per cent. The nursing vacancy rate reached 24 per cent in 2009 , or more than twice the average of other RHAs. The BRHA has resorted to locum nurses to cover the shortfall. They do it through agency nurses who work on a temporary basis and leave. They cost the taxpayers a fortune. It's not just the fees, but travel, accommodation and so on.

Nursing locum costs jumped from $640,000 in 2005 to $3.7 million in 2008, a staggering increase of 579 per cent. That's an escalation of $3 million of our hard-earned taxes. Health care needs to be managed responsibly from a people perspect ive and from a cost perspective. Under the NDP, this is not happening. Among the biggest ongoing concerns in both the NOR-MAN RHA and the Burntwood RHA is the difficulty in accessing a family doctor. Continuity of care is important to good care.

It's important that every Manitoban be able to have a family doctor who will provide ongoing care and who will provide the care which keeps a person healthy as well as care during illness. The continuing and advancing epidemic of diabetes in Manitoba, and particularly in northern Manitoba, is an example of the NDP's failure to ensure adequate efforts to help people stay healthy. The continuing problems in the northern RHAs and the ongoing problems in managing health care in the north are a sad legacy of the NDP government.

It's time to change the government and have a Liberal government which can straighten out the problems our health-care system is having under the NDP. ORDERS OF THE DAY GOVERNMENT BUSINESS House Business Mr. Speaker: The honourable Government House Leader. Hon. Jennifer Howard (Government House Leader): Yes, Mr. Speaker, on House business. I'd like to announce that on Thursday, May 19th, the Opposition Day motion currently on the Order Paper will be debated. Mr. Speaker: On– An Honourable Member: Tomorrow. Mr. Speaker: –tomorrow, on Thursday, will be Opposition Day motion which is on the Order Paper, okay.

And on further House business, the honourable Government House Leader. Ms. Howard: Yes, Mr. Speaker, on further House business. For the information of the House, it's my understanding that Estimates in room 255 will be starting around 3:30 today in order to accommodate the daily flood briefing, and with that I ask you to resolve us into the Committee of Supply. Mr. Speaker: Okay. For room 255, which is Infrastructure and Transportation, we'll be starting around 3:30, and we will now resolve into Committee of Supply. And in the Chamber will be

2144 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 18, 2011 Agriculture, Food and Rural Initiatives, and room 254 will be Water Stewardship. So would the Chairs that will be chairing these Committee of Supply please go to the respective rooms that you'll be chairing, please. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY (Concurrent Sections) WATER STEWARDSHIP * (14:50) Mr. Chairperson (Mohinder Saran): Order. Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This

section of the Committee of Supply will now resume consideration of the Estimates for the Department of Water Stewardship. We have one resolution remaining. Resolution 25.1: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $1,191,000 for Water Stewardship, Administration and Finance, for the fiscal year ending March 31st, 2012. Resolution agreed to. This completes the Estimates of the Department of Water Stewardship. This also concludes our consideration of the Estimates in this

section of the Committee of Supply meeting in room 254. I would like to thank the ministers, critics and all honourable members for their hard work and dedication during this process. Committee rise. INFRASTRUCTURE AND TRANSPORTATION * (15:50) Mr. Chairperson (Rob Altemeyer): Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This

section of the Committee of Supply will now resume consideration of the Estimates for the Department of Infrastructure and Transportation. As had been previously agreed, questioning for this department will proceed in a global manner and the floor is now open for questions. Mr. Ron Schuler (Springfield): And, first of all, I'd like to thank the minister and his department for the open house that they had in Dugald. I know that was not initially part of the plan, and somehow the issue got a life of its own and started to become very contentious.

And I think there were a lot of things that people felt they had seen on drawings and, thus, the hard median going through town at one point in time was going to be more than it was on the drawings. Anyway, the department came out, cleared up the entire issue. I don't think there was much concern at all and people left quite happy. There was one property, I think one entrance is going to have to be cut off, but, you know what–we absolutely needed that at that intersection and look forward to that intersection being worked on and the lights going up this summer.

I do want to ask the minister, as I've asked for 12 years of him, and then other ministers, and now him again: Highway 59 and the Perimeter, the overpass which is long overdue, where is it in the global plan of the department? Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation): We are releasing our new five-year plan soon. We have, to be quite frank, have been looking at our capital plan, again, with a–in light of the flood–not that there'll be dramatic changes to some of the major projects, but we are certainly moving ahead.

And I have advice, I believe, in the second week of June there'll be an open house on this particular–which–I know which element he–the member is talking about. But we are, you know, in terms of the actual capital planning, that should be released shortly. I'd say we'd probably get the capital plan out in the next few weeks, and it is delayed largely because, you know, we're going to obviously have to identify if there are any flood-related issues for future programming. We do have some flexibility. You know, we don't program the entire dollar commitment, but that will be out shortly. Mr.

Schuler: I do have another issue, and that has to do with trains going through East St. Paul. The CEMRR railway, which comes through Birds Hill, there are approximately four places where it crosses a major road, the first one being Highway 59, then Birds Hill Road, then Raleigh, and then Gateway. And the problem for citizens is–and I've got an exact date because I asked this individual, give me an exact date when this happ ened.

Friday, May 6, 2011, around 3:30 a.m., the train came into Birds Hill and left around 5:30 a.m., the problem being that because they are not controlled intersections, they have to give significant amount of warning, and I would say

May 18, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2145 to the minister that some of these crossings are pretty close to being in people's backyards; 3:30 in the morning is very, very early. And the question is–and this individual posed it–a question comes to mind. Since Esso's not open at 3:30 a.m., what is CEMRR doing? Shunting cars? If so, why? Birds Hill is not a shunting yard. And if perhaps the department could look into that, I think 3:30 in the morning through a residential area is probably a little extreme. Mr. Ashton: Well, I think the member's raised it on the public record.

It's not directly within our jurisdiction. Obviously, he has put it on the record, though, and we'll undertake to pass that concern on. Mr. Schuler: And one further question, it's a bit of a side note. There are boxc ars parked between Dr. Hamilton, Robert Andrews School. Would this not be a safety issue, since children would be climbing on them? And this is this individual asking. They do have a controlled walkway between the schools, and I would concur. If this is a temporary issue, that's one thing; however, if it's going to be more permanent, I would suggest that there could be a issue here with safety.

I don't know if the minister could give us some comments on that. Mr. Ashton: Again, I appreciate the member raising the issue, and we are fair ly short of time, so I'm trying as much as possible not to eat up too much time. So I will thank the member for raising the concern and certainly make sure that the appropriate people are aware of it. Mr. Ralph Eichler (Lakeside): We have an awful lot to try and get over. We're going to wrap up today, Mr. Chair, as we talked about earlier.

I do want to come back to a bit on the EMO side of things just to talk about the Red River flood protection and the mitigation that has taken place and will take place in the future. Is there a procedure, or how do municipalities access funding for mitigation for, down the road, on, in particular, the Red River? Mr. Ashton: I assume the member's talking about the program that we announced that will particularly be targeting north of Winnipeg on the Red, and we have actually received applications on that.

So we've not only come to the point of announcing the program but we're also in a position to start implementing. I do want to stress that part of what we did was also the buyouts which we did immediately, and that was a provincial initiative. The program itself, the Province is solely responsible for the individual home element. The federal government will not make that an eligible cost. The rest is coming from infrastructure funding, and we have received significant number of applications. And I do know there's been some particularly identified priority areas.

I think it was very obvious early on in the flood season the needs in St. Andrews, and, again, we've committed there. * (16:00) The issue there already was whether the municipality itself felt it was in a position to actually even ask for that kind of protection. But, hard to believe, it was the same flood season. That was a couple of days into it, you know, a very significant, rapidly developing event.

So we–you–yet we weren't able to get a lot of this up and running outside of buyouts for this flood season but we're anticipating there'll be some significant work done on various elements of flood protection starting this spring. And I'd also want to just–if I could–just add that we–we'll also be clearly rolling out a program based on our experience of 2011.

We've had initial discussions with the federal government and, clearly, again, that's the priority for us, to get them involved because much of what we've done–wing dikes after '97, the floodway expansion, even go back to Shellmouth Dam, Portage Diversion, the original floodway all cost shared with the federal government. So that will be important and I wouldn't want to underestimate the degree to which we will have a fairly significant mitigation package over and above the current package, which was really based on the experience of 2009.

And I do want to particularly identify the needs in and around the Assiniboine Valley watershed including into Lake Manitoba. The member knows the area very well, and Lake St. Martin. I can't stress strongly enough that, you know, a lot of our experience in '97 led to some very good developments in the Red River Valley south of Winnipeg but the Assiniboine–we've got some very unique situations this year and we're going to deal–both in the flood recovery stage–but we're clearly going to be looking at infrastructure.

And that's not to say in any way, shape or form, that what we have isn't a very significant investment but I've already identified–and I'll just mention it briefly, Shellmouth Dam, you know, there has been

2146 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 18, 2011 some discussion related to improve its capacity, in terms of storage. Clearly, the Assiniboine dikes we'll be looking at and the Portage Diversion, especially the Assiniboine dikes, and, you know, we've raised them up. A lot of it was done in winter construction so that–you know, even with an extra $25 million we may be looking at some further improvements there. Mr. Chairperson, and we will also be, over the next period of time, seeing what the situation's like in Manitoba where folks [inaudible] immediate flood protection.

But the kind of situation we're seeing now is the new flood of record on that lake. The same thing with Lake St. Martin. So we're going to be assessing that as well. I know the member talked about Red River north but I want to assure him that we're clearly going to be looking at other areas and, by extension, you know, the Shoal lakes now. The member won't have time to get a, you know, detailed discussion on it but as the member knows there have been some proposed long-term solutions.

Well, one in particular, and I think, again, that's going to be a priority for us, you know, the experience of the last few months–the last few years in around the Shoal lakes has certainly indicated that that–it's an unsustainable situation currently. Mr. Eichler: I was going to go there with my next question so you pre-empted it somewhat. But I know that with the military being there and the technology that they have available to them, does that go far enough or is that where we start with some of the soft spots, so to speak, on the Assiniboia river and the diking that's been built or upgraded this past winter?

Is that where the priorities start or how do we determine which projects can move forward in the next year? Mr. Ashton: Well, there's really a number of elements. The first thing we will do is assess the flood situation that we dealt–had to deal with. I mentioned the Assiniboine Valley. This is the flood of record. I mean it's–start flooding Brandon and very different parts of the Assiniboine Valley but just take the extension of the watershed, and Brandon's very aware of Lake Manitoba, you know, Lake St. Martin. And this is all part of the same overall situation with the watershed.

So clearly we have a new flood of record and clearly that leads to some of the kind of things that I mentioned earlier. What we would do is build on a number of elements. One thing we are doing right now–just our immediate flood response is a significant survey. We were able to get in with survey crews and survey the entire area of the controlled release in a matter of days, and that's important, as the member knows. In rural Manitoba, you've got different degrees of surveying. One of the key elements we did–plan mitigation in the Red River area, post-'97, was LiDAR surveying.

We've done LiDAR surveying both south and north on the Red River. We also have done LiDAR surveying in the Fisher River and into Peguis First Nation. We do have LiDAR surveying available, I know, on some of our other rivers. It often tends to be, you know, in and around river areas, like, La Salle, I believe we have some LiDAR information available on the immediate impact. So that would be one of the key elements.

And we're doing it for temporary flood protection, but I would assume we'll be looking at some, you know, rather detailed mapping, because what that gives you is the exact height of dikes or other protection systems that you need, whether it's temporary or permanent. Where–we would then, obviously, be looking at a wide range of potential projects. I mentioned some of them already, but also right down to the degree to which you can dike. It probably more challenging in some areas than others, particularly around Lake Manitoba.

I mean, there's a lot of homes that are–there's not a lot of–there's not land in front of them to put a dike on, a permanent dike. So, you know, I don't want to underestimate the challenge, both short term and long term. But that's generally the scope, and that's what we did very quickly after the '09 flood. We immediately looked at the impact, scoped out what we could do right away, the buyouts, scoped out kind of the general parameters of what would work.

And then we went to the municipalities, and we go to homeowners and we're now getting the applications back, because, again, we're working with municipalities. We don't go in and, you know, traditionally, build things without the partnership and co-operation of them and their, you know, their residents. So that will be the general approach, and I do want to stress, by the way, a lot of our staff right now are still in flood response and will be for quite some time, especially in and around Lake Manitoba and Lake St. Martin.

So, once things do start to clear from the immediate urgent demands, we'll move into that stage. But I have no doubt, and the Premier

May 18, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2147 signalled this as well, that we'll have a very significant focus on flood mitigation coming out of this flood. It's, you know, it's a record flood and we'll respond accordingly. Mr. Eichler: And thank you, Minister.

I do want to come back to, again, mitigation, because I think that's, with the weather patterns the way they are and certainly everything we do to try and protect, you know, property, and that's the control of the water and I know that's a very tough job, and, you know, in particular, with Lake Manitoba and the Shoal lakes in particular, we need to get rid of that water, you know, a little bit faster than what it's–is coming in. You know, for every day that the diversion's open, it takes about two and a half days to get it out the other end.

So, whether we do that at the Shellmouth side–and I know that the government did open up the Shellmouth and empty it as much as possible–or do we look at other alternatives rather than storing the water on Lake Manitoba? Do we look at other alternatives rather than trying to hold it in Lake Manitoba before it ever gets there? Mr. Ashton: Well, I think it's important to clearly identify what the situation we're dealing with in terms of Lake Manitoba. We have been using all our flood control systems, including the Fairford outlet, and we've been using it to the maximum extent possible.

I mean, my colleague Minister of Water Stewardship (Ms. Melnick) talked about ice conditions. We also are very cognizant of the impact on Lake St. Martin, which has to be factored in; it's not just Lake Manitoba, it's Lake St. Martin. Lake St. Martin is at very, very high levels right now. And what we've seen this year, I want to stress again, is this–well, without any of the flood controls, there would be record flooding. And it's not to say that we won't sit down again and look at, you know, some of the impacts we might see. I know the member for the Interlak e (Mr.

Nevakshonoff) was able to track down a report from the Manitoba Water Commission in 1978 which had talked about an outlet on Lake St. Martin. Clearly, there's a natural outlet right there, but there are, you know, there's more limited cfs. But I wouldn't want to underestimate the degree to which, with these kind of water flows, we would be seeing very high flood levels no matter what. * (16:10) I mentioned this on the Portage Diversion: The additional flow that we've flowed, you know, they–going from the 25,000 to 34,000, it's going to add about two inches on the lake.

And 25,000 has been the, sort of, normal rated capacity. And the whole design of the Lake Manitoba regulation was about, you know, go back to '61, coming out of some of the floods of the '50s on Lake Manitoba, it was based on the inlet and the outlet. So, you know, what we're dealing with is a very significant natural flood and, yes, true, in the operation of Portage Diversion, that's when the lake levels go up. But for much of the rest of the year, when the Fairford structure is operating, that's when the levels draw down. And, just as we did with the Shellmouth, and as the Minister of Water Stewardship (Ms.

Melnick) outlined, we have been drawing down Lake Manitoba through the Fairford structure quite significantly. And I think if you look at some of the exchange in question period, I think what the member for Ste. Rose (Mr. Briese) is missing is the fact that those figures reflect the conditions at the time. And I can't stress strongly enough that we have been operating it to the optimal level we can. And when there's ice you have different flows. And we also have–you know, we're dealing with Lake St.

Martin as well, which is at very, very, very high levels, and the reason I want to state that is not to take away from the impact on Lake Manitoba, we're going to address this as part of the broader impacts, particularly at the Assiniboine River Valley, we are faced with, both in terms of the flood response, you know, the immediate flood protection, both in terms of the flood recovery–and we will be making announcements on that very shortly–and in terms of flood mitigation.

So I want to stress there that this is a overwhelming natural event, and we have been using whatever controls we could to minimize the impacts. But, clearly, on Lake Manitoba, with these current water levels–I mean, if we didn't have regulation it would have been even worse. I can get the member the numbers, but, believe you me, it would have been far worse than we're currently dealing with now because what's essentially happened is over the last few months, before the operation of Portage Diversion, there's been ability to flow water out of Lake Manitoba, which then goes into Lake St.

Martin, which then goes to the Dauphin River and ends up in Lake Winnipeg. And that was

2148 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 18, 2011 always–it's no different than the Shellmouth. The Shellmouth has an inlet and outlet. Lake Manitoba has an inlet and an outlet. And, you know, we would have–if we didn't have the inlet and the outlet right now, we would have a flood of much higher magnitude, I would say probably at least a foot higher, if not more, by the time the flood was over. Now, that's not, you know, that's not to take away from any of the impacts. We're going to deal with the real impacts on the ground. But I do know–and people have a right to be, you know, frustrated.

Believe you me, this is a situation that is tied into 50 per cent more volume in the Assiniboine River Valley than the flood of 1976. This is a massive flood event of unprecedented proportions and it really has pushed any and all of our flood defences to the limit. But, having said that, we're not giving up on Lake Manitoba by any stretch of the imagination. And I do want to put on the record, too, I thank the member for raising some of the specific concerns in St. Laurent, which is in his constituency, and some issues of getting sandbags, some of the other logistical areas.

The member knows he represents a good part of that area, some of the huge challenges that we collectively are faced with, but we're going to do our best to meet them. Mr. Eichler: And thank you, Minister, for that. I do need to move on, but I do want to put on the record I want the thank the minister for letting us work with you in suggesting some of the things that we brought to your attention and trying to do it within a timely manner.

We know that the staff resources are very limited, and, of course, we've had a bit of that lack of staff at the table here to make some of the decisions and the questions, but we certainly do appreciate all that the minister and your department, of course, the volunteers have stepped forward and so we do appreciate that as well. I would be remiss if I didn't talk a little bit about the Taxicab Board, and we know that, you know, the minister's been actively involved in that on different occasions going back to when he was previously minister as well.

Could you just give us a update on the current status of that file, and I know the original deadline, if I remember right, to have the shields installed, was, I believe, November of 2010. Mr. Ashton: Well, what I want to indicate there is the member's talking specif ically about the cameras and shields. Back in–I believe it was in 2002, we dealt with a very difficult situation. A taxi driver had been murdered, Mr. Deol.

At that time, actually, I asked the member for Radisson, this is before he was elected, to use his expertis e as an engineer to write what became a–I think a report that has become a model in terms of recommendations. It's been used across North America. And what we had come out of that report, a number of recommendations, but one was to proceed to cameras and shields. The shield that was brought in, the prime shield, was made by a Swedish company. It was used for a number of years. My understanding is the company went bankrupt.

And we were seeing some escalation of violence involving taxi drivers, you know, taxi drivers being the victims. And what I did is I asked the board and the industry to prepare a–an updated response to, essentially, the original report. The recommendations came forward. One was a improvement in the camera. That–those are all included. There were recommendations involving better co-ordination with the police, in terms of dispatch to any scenes involving any criminal activity directed at taxi drivers.

I did meet with the chief of police, and I know they are making every effort to make sure that th at is a priority for them. I want to indicate, too, that we also did have a recommendation for an enhanced shield. What happened was that there were various designs that were potentially looked at. But the one shield that was initially recommended for use, and actually was set to be used, would have had a full partition in the front. And I knew from the member for Radisson's original report that there had been significant issues at that time about whether that would be safe in the case of an accident.

So to–you know, in the abundance of caution, we brought in an outside consulting engineer. They did a report and they indicated that was indeed the case. So what we then came up with is a shield that we worked in co-operation with the industry on in terms of design. And I want to thank Unicity, Duffy's, actually all the companies–particularly, I know Gurmail Mangat, the president of Unicity, was very involved in the design. But, you know, I don't want to exclude any of the other people from the industry who were very much a part of the solution.

So that is why the member will see that new shields have been installed. They are safer, and I believe they will go a long way to ensuring a safer industry, but at the same time, recognizing the reality

May 18, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2149 of taxi drivers often spending long hours needing to be safe, in the case of vehicle accidents. So it did take us a bit longer. The member had mentioned the November deadline. We did give a number of extensions. It, I think, was well worthwhile, and we now have a much improved situation with shields and with a number of safety elements, including cameras. Mr. Eichler: So was there a formal agreement, then, that was issued between the Taxicab Board and taxicab industry that was agreed to by all parties? Mr.

Ashton: Well, the Taxicab Board does have the jurisdiction in this area. You know, they basically had the ability to require this by regulation, which they did. But we did work with the industry in the end to ensure that there was a joint approach. And I think that's been wise. * (16:20) And I do want to credit, by the way, the manufacturer. It was a local manufacturer that is the producer of the current shields, though that doesn't preclude others that meet the safety standards. And I did have a number of discussions with him, so I owe him a visit to a certain type of local establishment, let's put it that way.

He really–he stepped to the plate. They produced the shields; they helped make a much safer industry. So we've got–we're very fortunate to have this company locally. So that the current situation is we basically now have the full implementation of that and in the end, I think the key element was the consultation involvement with the industry. And that's my preferred approach as minister. I think it's our preferred approach as government is, where possible, to have a co-operative approach on taxi issues between the board and the industry. Mr. Eichler: So, Mr.

Chair, there's no formal agreement that–that's with your department. I'm assuming that's correct. And then, the other thing is: Are all the taxi cabs in compliance now that's within the province of Manitoba? Mr. Ashton: What–yes, I can't comment on the compliance side; I just know from experience. I take taxis quite a bit that I have seen that the new shields have been installed. The–on the compliance side, by the way, there was flexibility given in terms of timing, you know, it took some time to get the shields in.

We also recognize the unique situation with seasonal taxis as well which only operate, you know, for a short period of time. So we made sure that their supply of that is available. But, yes, it really is–become a non-issue over the last few months, largely because we now do have much more reflection on what the industry had recommended and no other suggestions, by the way. I mean they had the same interest that the board did, really–maybe a different

interpretation of it, but they wanted a safer industry. But they also wanted shields that worked, and we've done a lot to make sure that that's what we have now. Mr. Eichler: So, again, just on clarity, the shields that were designed and approved and then a particular company went out and built those and was assured that they would be the choice of those shields. What happened to those? Were they compensated for those shields or who compensated them or was there a compensation package? Mr.

Ashton: Yes, there were a limited number of taxis that did, you know, had indicated they were going to purchase the other type of shield which the engineering firm had expressed concern about. And, by the way, I don't want to preclude the fact that the designer couldn't respond to some of the concerns down the line. I' m not saying that the shields were inherently unsafe; that's not what the report said. They–but what they did is they identified that in case of a collision, this might become a, you know, a problem inside the vehicle that might put the–either the passengers or the driver at risk.

So, yes, we did move in terms of that. We wanted to make sure that nobody was out-of-pocket for, you know, having this type of shield actually produced initially, because that was the original direction of the board. And I'm not blaming the board; I'm not blaming anyone. I'm just glad that we brought in the consulting engineer because they identified that there were some issues with the shields as they were designed, and based on that report, we knew what we had to do, which was look for a different type of sh ield, you know, different design. And we were able to achieve that and we got those shields in place.

And there's a couple of different designs, where now there's a full back shield and a partial side shield. So, you know, there are some options, as well, and that was the other key element that the industry said. And they also wanted the ability to

2150 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 18, 2011 restrict passengers in the front seat which they have that ability now. And we have various things. There's a warning light on the top of the vehicle which is similar to a, you know, what you might see on an emergency vehicle, but it's, you know, very identifiable as a taxi if the taxi driver's in dispute. So we have a fairly comprehensive approach, but the shields, yes, we've resolved the shield issue and we now have shields and cameras installed. Mr.

Eichler: So the compensation, then, for the shields that were built but not installed–was there compensation paid by your department or was that paid by the Taxicab Board? Mr. Ashton: That was our department recognizing that, as Minister of Transportation, I'm responsible for both the MIT and for the taxi board. We just didn't feel it was fair since people–you know, since the board had operated in good faith, everybody operating in good faith, some people had proceeded, you know, when there was an order that had been placed, you know, with the manufacturer.

Yes, it turned out there were some concerns with it, but it didn't make sense to basically do anything other than, you know, make sure that no one was out-of-pocket in terms of that. It was not a, you know, it was not the entire industry. We did not have all, you know, every taxi had those shields installed. So, you know, to my mind, it was well worthwhile. And we are, by the way, and I mentioned this with seasonal cabs, we have a different arrangement for seasonal cabs.

We did–with the new shields, improved shields, we have purchased those shields and we're going to be leasing them out, because, you know, we vary every year on how many seasonal cabs and it just didn't make sense to require people to have a significant upfront expenditure if they're only operating two, three months but, at the same time, t h e y h a v e t o h a v e s h i e l d s . S o w h a t w e ' v e d o n e i s we've moved to make sure that we get the cost recovery, but we do it through a lease arrangement where we purchased it and they will lease it back. Mr.

Eichler: So, then, what was the total cost that you paid out for those shields that they didn't use then? Do you have that, or can you undertake to get that? Mr. Ashton: I'll get it and there we are. For–I think total cost is $48,000. Mr. Eichler: Just before–I don't have much more on this–but legal cost: Was there legal cost involved there as well, that–as a result of the agreement that–where they–they couldn't agree to agree, so to speak, so there must have been some legal cost that was borne by the government as well. Mr. Ashton: Well, Mr.

Chair, actually, the real additional cost would be the engineering report that we did commission, not on the legal side. It didn't end up in court, you know. It was basically, you know, the situation where we brought in this outside engineering consultant who had the experience, you know, in these matters, so there was a cost element there, and I can probably get that cost as well. Yes, I'm advised it was around $12,000 for the engineering report, but we can confirm the exact number. Mr. Eichler: Just to finalize, then: For the $48,000 for the shields that didn't go in, so they're in storage somewhere.

What's the procedure for getting rid of those? Do you try and sell them to another jurisdiction or do we just trash them eventually or recycle them, or is there something–is part of the plans to use those, you know, down the road with another province or state? Mr. Ashton: Yes, I'll undertake to get to the member on that. You know, our first concern was to make sure that we did purchase them so they would be out of circulation, based on the concerns the engineering report had. I can track down the status of them. Mr.

Eichler: Yes, ultimately, hundred per cent agree the safety of the drivers and, of course, keep them out of harm's way is ultimately the goal. And I think, you know, I feel satisfied that the minister's got a handle on that, and so, I think that, you know, if you could, you know, as you already agreed to undertake to get back to us on those, I would certainly appreciate that. Before I move to my next category, the member from Arthur-Virden has a couple of quick questions for you. Mr. Larry Maguire (Arthur-Virden): I thank the minister for his response to my question today in question period.

I very much appreciate that. And I have two perennial questions: One is Highway 256 in the Cromer area for oil trucks moving up and down that area. They still have to drive around the No. 2, up 83 and back west on that gravel road, 255. I know I've raised it with the

May 18, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2151 previous minister a number of times and I think the minister's aware of it. And just to remind him of that. But more importantly, I had an opportunity to meet with a group of reeves in southwest Manitoba the other day, and I just want to bring it to the minister's attention, particularly the condition of Highway 251 between Deloraine and–sorry, 21 highway and 83 highway, cross through the oil area through–Waskada's the community in the middle of it. There's a lot of truck traffic in that area.

And I would have to say that it is a growing area, for sure, because of the oil industry and therefore a lot of heavy machinery moving in that area. Some of the reeves, th ough, told me that the municipal roads in that area, there will probably be a situation of some of the wider seeders today, when they fold them up, are pr etty heavy, and they're indicating that they may even sink out of sight in some of the soft–with the frost boils that are in some of those roads.

That's just to make the minister aware of the condition that is pr evalent in that area right now. * (16:30) And the other one that they brought to my attention was that a semi bogged to a stop in the middle of 21 Highway the other day south of Deloraine, and they had to close the road, I guess, in that area, between there and the Goodlands corner, I believe, was what it was indicated to me, and I think the road is–they indicated to me that it was closed, I didn't see it firsthand, but I just bring that to the minister's attention.

And I just–but the important area there, I guess, is just–and I know there's going to be all kinds of demands on infrastructure. I appreciate the minister's dilemma, but I just wanted to see if there was any indication. I know he's received letters from Mr. Morningstar and others in regards to Highway 251 between Highway 21 and 83, and I just wonder if he could bring me up to date on whether there was any intention to move forward on the shoulder repairs and widening it a little bit on that particular stretch of highway.

Some of it would need to be rebased, I'm assuming , as well, but just if he could update me on any kind of work that's planned for that particular piece of highway. Thanks. Mr. Ashton: First of all, on the broader issue, we're certainly seeing some significant developments in the oil industry in the member's constituency, very encouraging to see. We are working on the impacts that has on our transportation system in two ways. One is we've done a lot of work in co-ordinating spring road restri ctions with Saskatchewan. We had a initial joint Cabinet meeting.

We followed up with a significant move towards having seamless trucking regulations between the two jurisdictions, and there was a very different regi me in place for spring restrictions between Saskatchewan and Manitoba that was of real concern to the oil industry. So, in addition to going to one RTAC level on a–you know, we have a–going to have a consistent standard, because we had, you know, 62.5 here and 63.5 in Saskatchewan. It didn't make sense to truckers, and you know what happens–you know, if you're a trucker going across from Saskatchewan to Manitoba, you go to the lowest common denominator.

So I just want to stress that we have identified some of the short-term, you know, issues, co-ordination issues, and certainly we'll factor into our capital planning some of the impacts in and around the area. I certainly appreciate you've got highways that perhaps a few years ago were mostly limited to local traffic and some agricultural traffic that are now seeing some fairly heavy equipment.

And I can tell you, I'm not an expert on the oil patch, but I am advised that a lot of that equipment's pretty heavy, and so trucking, you know, trucking of that nature does have an impact, partic ularly on roads that are not necessarily, you know, RTAC or even perhaps older roads, even, you know, no matter what their rating are. I appreciate the comments on specific highways, and what I'll do, again, is I'll undertake to, perhaps through the critic, to just get you a brief response on that, and I'll leave it at, maybe, thank you for raising it on the record. Mr.

David Faurschou (P ortage la Prairie): I'd just like to leave with the minister, as regards to the forthcoming evaluation of flood mitigation and drought proofing of southern Manitoba, not to–well, to include the considerat ion of the Holland No. 3 dam placement of the–that was the fourth element of the Duff Roblin plan to drought- and flood-proof southern Manitoba. And I will–would like the minister, if he hasn't–has forgotten about it, the report tabled in the House in March of 1988, it was the Assiniboine South Hespeler report, tabled by Eugene Kostyra, that laid out a very comprehensive

2152 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 18, 2011 plan of the river and adjoining tributaries. So I will leave that with the minister. Mr. Ashton: I just realizing this, you know, you never know who–what will happen in October, but it may be any one of us that there may be our last Estimates in this department, but it's certainly going to be yours. So I want to say, well, I know you've raised a lot of these issues in the past and, you know, in terms of broader water management issues, and certainly consistently you've raised this. Actually, you raised it time and time again, and I mean that as a compliment.

I know the member for Arthur-Virden (Mr. Maguire) was saying he's raised this highways issues before. You know, sometimes consistency is an element, but I do want to indicate, by the way, that, in a broader sense, one of the key things identified in the beginning of the Estimates is the degree to which a lot of these, you know, scopes of projects were much greater when we had a very significant federal presence. I think it's time to bring back PFRA. I mean, PFRA basically has disappeared off the radar screen, and it's done a lot over the years.

I mean, in recent years, before we had–take the Manitoba Water Services Board here. Last time we met it's done a lot for rural water supply. It's disappeared off the radar screen; I'm told that it appears somewhere but it's no longer the PFRA that we knew.

And I really think coming out of this flood there's a golden opportunity, you know, for us to sit down, when I say us, you know, all the stakeholders including the federal government and provincial governments and sort of municipalities and producer to look at, you know, some of the bigger-picture mitigation elements, whether it be retention, whether it be, you know, through upgrading our existing structures. And I know the member's been very consistent about that in terms of Portage Diversion.

I never get in a discussion on the Portage Diversion with the member without knowing he knows a heck of a lot more about it than I do, and I know, as minister, a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. So I'm not going to debate the status of the Portage Diversion or various elements of it. But I do want to, you know, seriously put on the record that I appreciate the member's comments and commitments. And what's interesting about it, if you go back to some of the reports we've had over the years–I mentioned earlier with the member for Lakeside (Mr. Eichler), we were talking about the Lake St.

Martin situation and the potential for an outlet there, the work was done by the then Manitoba Water Commission. So we actually have a lot of stuff on the record. Thank goodness we proceeded with some of the stuff we did. But maybe there are some of the projects that were talked about 20, 30, 40 years ago that maybe some of those reports need to be dusted off. I think the member has a good point. Mr. Faurschou: I want to thank the minister for his kind words and yes we do.

When I was sitting as opposition critic for Transportation, we also worked through the graduated driver's licensing, when both of us had 16-year-old daughters that did not make us very popular at home. Thank you ever so much. Mr. Ashton: And if I could–I'll only do this one more time and I actually said this to the member for Lakeside earlier. I said I know that I got the member for Portage in big trouble when he was critic one time when I actually said at a public event that he was doing a really good job as critic and I'm sure he got in trouble with his caucus afterwards.

But I really meant it in the context of things like the graduated driver's licensing. I don't know if the people realize the degree to which–yes, there's time where they see us, you know, with somewhat different perspectives in question period. But, on that issue, I was minister. We had received a contribution by the member for Transcona, who did a lot of the groundwork, former critic when he was in opposition, and a lot of it really moved ahead because he was critic, you know, with the full support of your caucus, did a pretty significant job. And, yes, you're right; it was interesting.

My nieces at the time, they were grumbling a few years after: Who brought this in? And, of course, that was me. But I can tell you one thing, it–we've seen the experience; it was the right thing to do and it's now become just something that people assume has always been that way. So I seriously do want to thank the member for his past contributions. I know he's not gone yet. But I know this is his last Estimates. So thanks again for all your contributions on the Transportation side. Mr. Eichler: I want to move to the highway transport board and the Hi ghway Traffic Board.

In particular, you know, we have a number if issues to address here. One is the Grey Goose contract and I know that, you know, we've put on the record several times that we're very concerned about the future of

May 18, 2011 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2153 that particular bus line and whether or not it's going to be around for many more years to come. So I'd just like the minister to give us an update. I know that they certainly made an agreement with him about a month ago, two months maybe. If you'd update the record for that. Mr. Ashton: First, I'd just like to update on the engineering contract; it was actually was 25,000 for the taxi shield. So, just a correction on that. * (16:40) On Greyhound bus coverage, the member knows the background.

We were faced with a situation in 2009 where there was an imminent–a potentially imminent loss of bus service that would've been devastating for many rural and northern communities. We did move very quickly to sit down and work out an interim arrangement with Greyhound. We also, at the same time, recognized that the clear message coming down from Greyhound was that bus service in its current form was not sustainable. They did share their books with us, and, certainly, there are a number of routes where they're certainly not making money; they're losing money.

And, perhaps, older models, where you had cross substation would allow that to happen. It wasn't something that we could rely on. What we also have done is we've moved to look at what other options there might be. And, by the way, when I say other options, it doesn't mean to preclude some significant involvement for Greyhound. I mean, they are a scheduled bus service that has a, you know, qualified drivers. You know, they, I think, have done a, you know, good job across Canada, across North America, in terms of service. And, of course, they're owned by a very significant major company, Laidlaw.

So what we are in now is in a transition period. We have put in place a direct payment to help maintain the service. I want to stress, by the way, that we would have had double or triple the cost if the bus service had been cancelled, in terms of just our own basic costs to government. I'm talking about patient transportation, for example, and many other elements. And what we see happening over the next period of time is, while we have the continuing relationship with them over this year, we're also going to look at whether there's ways of getting local bus providers in.

I do point out, by the way, Greyhound has contracted with–is it Boutin Bus Lines, I think? So they do have a relationship, you know, already, that involves some subcontracting. But we have had a significant amount of interest. We did consult around the province. We're not precluding any models, and what we might end up with, I think, is something equivalent to what we have with short-line railways, where you have sort of a ma in-line service, and then there's a discontinuation process, and there's an opportunity for people to get involved on that.

So there's also a regulatory dimension, because the member's quite correct: the Motor Transport Board is directly responsible for intercity bus service. The good news on the bus side is it's starting to recover across the board, in terms of general traffic. And we certainly see there's going to be a continuing need for bus service. Will it be what the same format is right now?

Possibly not, but we're, you know, we're committed to working with Greyhound and working with Manitobans as we transition to, you know, a service that recogn izes that–when I say this, I mean, I–in the urban areas, we've got for municipalities–they have bus service. A lot of people rely on that bus service in an urban sense. Same thing in rural Manitoba. There's a lot of people, particularly seniors, people who are, you know, aren't able to drive for various reasons that rely on the bus. It's also cost effective. The bus, the government–it's the most cost effective for, you know, for individuals.

So our goal is to work to transition to a sustainable system, and we now have an agreement with Greyhound to operate for a full year, which will buy us significant time to do that. Mr. Eichler: Yes, I–is there any–when it comes to setting policy and direction for the board, I know that I, along with some of my colleagues, have sent in applications to the board and–but most of them have been turned down for one reason or another, and my colleague from Turtle Mountain, Cliff Cullen, had a constituent that brought a proposal forward, and, again, it was turned down.

What can we do to encourage businesses to come forward? It seems as if there's no real clear guidelines about what you have to do to establish a bus line, or some other type of a business in order to get it approved by the Highway Traffic Board. Like, there seems to be some roadblocks, and it's not clear about the direction they need to be going, rather than just a complete denial. Mr. Ashton: Well, it is regulated, and there have been, as, you know, is the case with the main bus

2154 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 18, 2011 company, which deals with scheduled service here, have–they also do regulate in terms of charter buses. And it is arm's length. We–you know, we don't interfere as a department in their day-to-day operations. However, I just want to indicate that one of the areas that we are looking at is the whole regulatory framework.

I don't want to prejudge the final conclusion of that, but it will look at various options on what a new kind of bus service would look at, because, clearly, we're looking at having, say, the one main scheduled bus service not being sustainable in its current situation. But one of the things we will also be looking at is the charter bus service as well, and degree to which we need to look at the regulatory structures there. You know, obviously there bus lines that do currently provide that service and would have different views and maybe some of those, you know, that are applying to get the licences.

A very similar discussion goes on with the taxi board, you know, where there was a report came out and–[interjection]–no additional taxi licences, but there's a lot of pressures and different views on some of the increases in the limousine licences there are. So, this review will be looking at the overall framework. And it's a bit of an opportunity, in a way. I mean, it starts from the premise of trying to maintain as much as possible of a scheduled bus service, but it's an opportunity to review what we have as an overall framework.

And I think you can entertain over the next few months–you'll see us moving to a somewhat different system. I don't want to prejudge how different, but, clearly, the current system's not sustainable and we're going to have to come up with one that is. Mr. Eichler: We certainly appreciate that update and would encourage the government to look at ways of maybe working that agreement a little bit different.

And where other businesses can come in and maybe cover off some of those markets that are not profitable at, you know, for a larger company to look at, but maybe the smaller company would be able to work in hand to cover off some of those. I know in particular–there's one in particular, that I did write the minister about and that's in the city and that had to do with A-List Transportation. And I know the minister did respond to them and it seemed to him, at least, that he was being harassed by a number of departments in trying to run his business.

And I'm just wondering if the minister might have some suggestions on how this particular company might be able to move forward and make their business where it's prof itable. It just seems like they just run in one block–roadblock after the other. Mr. Ashton: Well, I'd rather not comment on a specific company or a specific circumstance. I know the member did write and we have responded, in a general sense. But I don't want to, you know, again, leave any impression that we are not open to looking at some changes in the regulatory system.

But we do have a regulatory system and it's based on certain assumptions and principles and they operate accordingly. We also do have responsibilities on the inspection side and we're involved in that as well. I think one of the key issues of the regulatory side is not just determining how many and what kind of licences are issued, but ensuring that the operators are operating safely. So, you know, it's the same thing on the taxi side. When we talk about safety, it's not just safety for drivers.

It's also making sure that the public–and, you know, when they're getting into cabs–knows that they're getting cabs that have had, you know, inspections and are safe. So, I don't want to comment on any particular case other than to say that, you know, we'll continue to review elements for our regulatory system, but we still do have a responsibility to the public to ensure that we have, you know, reasonable inspections and that there's compliance. And I know it's not an easy job. A lot of our inspectors–but that's an important part of it as well; we've got to be there for the public interest. Mr.

Eichler: Certainly, I can appreciate that. And I would just ask that the minister, you know, work with the department to ensure that there's not harassment either. Because I know that safety is paramount and I certainly would never, ever want to see anyone in a position wh ere they felt that they were a bit at risk because of lack of inspections. And I certainly want to make that very clear. But, you know, we do have a number of people that want to move forwa

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	39-5-48
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	39th 5th hansardpdf 48.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	25a4a54995573698e03200b58de498419f3f0a59

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