2007 Legislative Session: Third Session, 38th Parliament

HANSARD

The following electronic version is for informational purposes

only.

The printed version remains the official version.

Official Report of

DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY

(Hansard)

MONDAY, MAY 7, 2007

Afternoon Sitting

Volume 20, Number 2

CONTENTS

Routine Proceedings

Page

Introductions by Members

Statements (Standing Order

25 B )

Wei Wai Kum cruise ship terminal

Trevena

Celebrating Women and the Spirit

of the Cranes

Roddick

Carling Muir

Sather

Endako Mines and B.C. mining

industry

Rustad

Anaphylaxis prevention

Cubberley

Public safety in B.C.

R. Lee

Oral Questions

Role of Solicitor General in RCMP

investigation of B.C. Rail sale

C. James

Hon. W.

Oppal

Fleming

L. Krog

Robertson

Simpson

Accountability for Olympic Games

costs

Macdonald

Hon. C.

Hansen

H. Bains

J. Kwan

Real estate practices of

Coquitlam developer

Thorne

Hon. J.

Les

Farnworth

Funding for Mary Manning Centre

Karagianis

Hon. T.

Christensen

Point of Privilege

Hon. R. Coleman

Petitions

S. Fraser

Committee of Supply

Estimates: Ministry of Health

Hon. G.

Abbott

A. Dix

Puchmayr

H. Bains

G. Coons

Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room

Committee of Supply

Estimates: Ministry of Community

Services and Minister Responsible for Seniors' and Women's Issues

Hon. I.

Chong

C. Wyse

Trevena

Karagianis

Gentner

H. Lali

C. Evans

Conroy

[ Page 7589 ]

MONDAY, MAY 7, 2007

The House met at 1:32 p.m.

[Mr. Speaker in the chair.]

Introductions by Members

Hon. J. Les: I'd like to introduce to the House today

someone who is not yet in the precincts, and in fact it might be a while. Just

this last Saturday my oldest son Chris and his wife Carina had their first

child, a little girl. Her name is Airyn Nora. She clocked in at eight pounds and

ten ounces, and I'd like everybody to welcome her to the world.

M. Karagianis: Today in the House we have constituents that

border between the member for Malahat–Juan de Fuca and me, so I'd like to

welcome them on behalf of both of us — Kathy O'Connor and her daughters Amber

and Katie. Would the House please welcome them here.

Hon. G. Abbott: As members of the House will know, we had a

very nice event at the noonhour in the rotunda to celebrate National Nursing

Week and to celebrate the provincial nursing day, Florence Nightingale's

birthday. We were joined by nurses from a number of different specialties from

all around the province — a wonderful event.

In the gallery today is my assistant deputy minister and chief

nurse executive, Paula Bond. Joining her is the executive director of the

nursing directorate, Gulrose Jiwani, and another director of the nursing

directorate, Laurianne Jodouin. I would like the House to please make them

welcome and to welcome and thank all the nurses of British Columbia, who do such

a wonderful job for us each and every day of the year.

S. Fraser: Today it gives me pleasure to greet friends from

magnificent Clayoquot Sound. From the Kakawis Family Development Centre are

Sadie Greenaway and Lisa Charleson. Would you please join me in making them feel

very welcome.

[1335]

S. Hawkins: On behalf of Mr. Speaker, it's my pleasure to

advise you that we have two visiting Clerks from another jurisdiction on

attachment with our House this week. They are Ms. Shaarda Maharaj and Ms. Nataki

Atabi-Dilchan of the parliament of the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago.

This visit is one of a continuing series of attachments whereby

our Legislative Assembly hosts Clerks from other jurisdictions. Please join me

in welcoming them to British Columbia and to this Legislature.

S. Simpson: I'm very pleased today that a constituent of

mine, Pamela Lee, is here with her sons Nick and Aaron — Aaron is celebrating

his tenth birthday — and Pam's friend Patty Little. They're here today rallying

around the issue of anaphylaxis and encouraging the government to support the

private member's bill that will help to support their children around this

issue. Please make Pamela, her children and her friend welcome.

M. Polak: Joining us in the gallery today is my favourite

person in the world, my daughter Miriam Polak. She's joined by her friend Adam

Nelson. Would the House please make them welcome.

D. Routley: I would like the House to help me make welcome

Alanna Elliot and Rob Elliot, two constituents of mine who have come down to

join the demonstration in support of Bill M210, the anaphylaxis bill. Please

make them welcome.

Hon. M. de Jong: Two guests that I hope members will

welcome. Brent Rathgeber served as an MLA in the Alberta Legislature from 2001

to 2004 in the riding of Edmonton-Calder. He is currently the executive director

of the Progressive Contractors Association of Canada.

Also in the gallery today is a former Fort McMurray resident,

Blake Robert, who is now studying at the University Canada West right here in

Victoria. I hope that members will welcome them both.

D. Cubberley: As several colleagues have alluded to, we're

being joined in the House here today by some special guests who are here to

support efforts by legislators to have a non-partisan bill passed to better

protect anaphylactic kids.

Along with a number of anaphylactic families, we are joined today

by Sara Shannon, the mother of Sabrina Shannon, the young girl after whom

Ontario's successful legislation was named. I had the pleasure and the privilege

of meeting Sara Shannon in person for the first time today. She's an inspiring

example of a parent with the courage to translate personal tragedy into a vision

of hope for change in order to ensure that what happened to her daughter doesn't

happen to other kids.

She's here today with Sabrina's aunt, Kathleen Whellan, who

produced the radio documentary featuring Sabrina that still inspires us to this

day. Would the House please join me in making them welcome.

I'd also like to introduce to the House three other guests: Ms.

Yvonne Rousseau, who is the regional coordinator with the Asthma and Allergy

Information Association, B.C.-Yukon chapter; Carolyn Posynick, who is with

Protect Allergic Children Today; and Anne Silver from the capital region, who is

the mother of two anaphylactic kids.

Hon. C. Hansen: The Minister of Advanced Education has asked

me to welcome a group that is visiting the Legislature today from Niimi, Japan.

Part of the delegation is Mr. Masao Ishigaki, the mayor of Niimi; Mr. Hideo

Enoki, chairperson of the Niimi municipal assembly; Mr. Yoshihiro Niinaka, the

chairperson of the Niimi chamber of commerce; Mr. Yukimasa Sugii, the

chairperson of the Niimi Art Association; Mr. Akira Tsuchiya, the chairperson of

the Niimi Interna-

[ Page 7590 ]

tional Exchange Association; Mrs. Kyoko Henmi; Miss Hiromi Sadaoka; Mr.

Takashi Kodani; and Mr. Yoshinori Shibayama.

Accompanying them are Ms. Marilyn Loveless, a councillor of the

town of Sidney; Mr. Robert McClure, chairperson of the Sidney-Niimi committee of

the Sidney Sister Cities Association; and Ms. Iida, who is the interpreter and a

former resident of Niimi. Would the House please make them all very welcome.

[1340]

R. Chouhan: Today in the gallery we have four people: Linda

and Mike Virginillo, and their children Mark and Shayna, to attend the rally

regarding Bill M210. Please make them welcome.

Hon. S. Hagen: It's my privilege today to have 70 grade 11

students from Highland Secondary School, a grade school in the Comox Valley,

together with their teacher, Greg Kochanuk. Would the House please join me in

welcoming them.

Hon. R. Thorpe: On behalf of the Minister of State for

Intergovernmental Relations, I am pleased to introduce to the House Lorraine

Duclos, Pam Erikson, Joanne Brown and Jenney Drummond. Would the House please

make them feel welcome.

Statements

(Standing Order 25

B) WEI WAI KUM CRUISE SHIP TERMINAL

C. Trevena: One of the attractions for many in Campbell

River and for those coming to the city is to watch the massive cruise ships sail

slowly down by the city during the summer season. They progress down the strait,

sometimes three gliding down in a row, but this year there will be something

different. June 5 is the day when the first cruise ship will dock in the city,

the start of what many in the community hope will be a long and growing line.

The cruise ship terminal itself will be unique. It is a project of

the Campbell River First Nation, on whose traditional territory it is sited, and

will be the first cruise ship terminal owned by a first nation. The band saw

great economic opportunity for itself and for the city, instead of having

tourists sail past the city and its surrounds, to encourage them to stay and see

close up what Campbell River, Vancouver Island and the Discovery Islands have to

offer.

The natural majesty is of course an attraction, but the band has

been hard at work to make sure that the first sights people have as they get off

the ship will also be attractive. The Wei Wai Kum terminal aims to provide a

glimpse into the history and culture of first nations. The first sight visitors

will have is a traditional Wei Wai Kum village, complete with totem poles and

big house.

The cruise passengers will be met by dancers and have the

opportunity to taste traditional foods and appreciate and buy Wei Wai Kum arts.

The Campbell River Indian band has been working cooperatively with the city and

others in the community to prepare for the first ship. That means

double-checking that all of the tourist operators providing wildlife tours and

scenic flights and other opportunities are ready to transport the visitors.

Nearly all of the pieces are in place for the first season of cruise ships and

potentially thousands of visitors and crew who will disembark, get a taste of

Campbell River and experience the first nations culture that has made it

possible.

CELEBRATING WOMEN AND THE

SPIRIT OF THE CRANES

V. Roddick: In 1988 a group of Delta residents founded

Burns Bog Conservation Society, led by Eliza Olsen. With her leadership, the

society influenced the purchase of over 5,000 acres of Burns Bog by all levels

of government — our lungs of the lower mainland.

Eliza has been brilliantly creative over the years in fundraising

and signing up volunteers. One of her fascinating creations is an annual gala

called Celebrating Women and the Spirit of the Cranes. Throughout the ages women

and cranes have been associated with industriousness, loyalty and creativity.

Our communities are richer because women give their time and

talents to projects they love. The Celebrating Women and the Spirit of the

Cranes ceremony is an opportunity to recognize these women who have made such

positive contributions in arts, business, education, community spirit, science

and technology — and fledgling chick.

This year the gala committee was honoured to welcome Susan Soux as

their guest speaker. Susan Soux has been a lifelong advocate for peace,

democracy and human rights. She has trained civilians, police and military in

peacekeeping and peace-building in Argentina, Canada, Chile, Macedonia, the

Ivory Coast and the United States, as well as working for the United Nations

peace support mission in the Sudan and Darfur. She serves as a testimony to how

one woman's passion can help shape the world.

[1345]

If you know of any industrious, loyal, creative woman who makes a

difference in your community, please contact Celebrating Women and the Spirit of

the Cranes at info@burnsbog.org.

CARLING MUIR

M. Sather: On November 20, 2006, 19-year-old Carling Muir

of Maple Ridge collapsed and went into a grand mal seizure in front of her

teammates following a basketball game at Langara College. Later that evening she

woke up at Vancouver General Hospital, where the sobering news was delivered:

she has a malignant brain tumour the size of a large egg.

After her brain surgery she was asked how she could stay so calm.

"I have some experience," she said. Just prior to age 13, Carling underwent

heart surgery.

[ Page 7591 ]

Yet with all that Carling has endured, she carries on. This week

Carling will be meeting with the director of athletics at Langara College to

begin organizing her cancer fundraising basketball tournament. She practises at

Thomas Haney secondary and Langara College to keep up her strength and stay in

shape, and she is making plans to return to Langara in September. Just yesterday

Carling started work at Cooper's market in customer relations — a busy and

active life for any young woman.

Carling continues to laugh with her family, have those sibling

squabbles with her brother Parker and keep her room not quite as tidy as dad

Grant would like sometimes, but they are staying in the day and moving through

the horrible fog of the grief. Her mother Shelley says they feel lucky — lucky

that Carling is still with them and they have a chance to fight this disease.

Carling Muir is a true inspiration. Please join me in sending

Carling our hope for a long, happy and fulfilling life.

ENDAKO MINES AND

B.C. MINING INDUSTRY

J. Rustad: This month marks the 42nd year of production for

Endako Mines. This is truly a milestone, given that several times in Endako's

history the mine was predicted to have only a small amount of reserves.

Coming out of the dark years of the mining industry in the 1990s,

Endako was estimated to have only a few years of life left. The owners were

making contingency plans to wind up operations, but due to changes in the mining

environment in B.C. as well as rising resource prices, Endako has found new

life.

Endako Mines has recently been purchased by a new company called

Blue Pearl Mining. This company has confidence in the future of B.C. and is

looking to expand reserves. They're also pursuing additional deposits in the

area, and they're looking at Endako Mines as their flagship for regional

production and processing.

All of this means a continued bright future for the mine and

continued employment opportunities for the people in local communities —

communities like Fraser Lake and Endako that flourish with the successful mining

industry. With high-paying jobs and the security that comes from a good

employer, Endako Mines is a great example of why we need to continue our focus

on improving opportunities for mining in B.C.

Throughout our province mining has always been an important

component of our economy. In the areas that are affected by the mountain pine

beetle, mining has the potential to take on an even more important role. From

the potential of the Mount Milligan project north of Fort St. James through to

Gibraltar mine near Williams Lake, mining is poised to grow rapidly in the heart

of the areas affected by the pine beetle epidemic.

With the continued focus by our government to help expand the

mining industry, communities will find that a growing mining industry means a

prosperous future, just like the example that Endako Mines provides. I look

forward to working with the people in the communities to help advance these

opportunities.

ANAPHYLAXIS PREVENTION

D. Cubberley: Every day in British Columbia some of our

kids walk a precarious line between being safe and suddenly being caught in the

deadly grip of an extreme allergic reaction.

Imagine for a moment what that would be like — a potentially

lethal reaction to even passing contact with things so common that they're in

every lunchbox and school cafeteria. Imagine being the parent of a child so

vulnerable that moments after contact with an allergen, their life could come to

an end. Surely we can grasp their apprehension and how it inspires advocacy for

action to prevent contact and prepare for intervention.

[1350]

Tragically, here in the capital region we recently lost

13-year-old Carley Kohnen, who unwittingly ate contaminated food. Like Sabrina

Shannon, she did her part. She asked about the food. But the answer she got

wasn't accurate. Sadly, she didn't have her EpiPen along when the reaction set

it.

Anaphylaxis strikes fast. For the responsible adult confronted

with it, there's just no time to get on a learning curve. Understanding the

vulnerability, recognizing the signs and, above all, knowing how to use an

epinephrine injector — those are essential to protect these vulnerable kids.

There are 13,000 children in B.C. schools susceptible to extreme

allergic reaction. If anaphylaxis strikes, the teacher needs to know exactly

where the EpiPen is, how to use it and what to do next. We can't entirely

eliminate the risks, but we can minimize them, and we can ensure that every

school community knows the stakes and has the drill down pat. Leaving it to

chance is not the answer.

Anaphylactic families are trying to get our attention. They face a

threat to their kids' safety that calls for a comprehensive response. Their

message to us is clear. It's time to act now, B.C.

PUBLIC SAFETY IN B.C.

R. Lee: While wars and conflicts are still threatening

people's lives in many regions of the world, we are very fortunate to live in

one of the safest communities. However, British Columbians still consider public

safety as one of the top five priorities. The other four are the economy, health

care, education and the environment.

We are aware that public safety includes many areas, such as

protection from flood, fire and other natural or mankind-induced disasters, as

well as drug addiction and crimes. In 2005 British Columbia was second to

Saskatchewan, with the highest overall crime rate in the country.

However, we are making progress. In 2005 B.C.'s overall crime rate

decreased by 5 percent, and the property crime rate decreased by 8 percent.

Although the property crime rate has decreased steadily from the

[ Page 7592 ]

high rate of 90 Criminal Code offences for every 1,000 people in 1991 to 62

in 2005 — which is the lowest in more than 20 years — it's still high compared

with many other provinces. In Vancouver, Burnaby and Surrey property crime rates

have been reduced to 75 in 2005, compared with 50 in Richmond, 45 in Montreal

and 30 in Toronto.

Last weekend I participated in the public forum on public safety

at the Chinese Cultural Centre. The participants put forward many ideas,

including more visible police forces in the street; stiffer penalties for repeat

offenders; encouraging citizens' involvement, like Block Watch and community

policing; and reforming criminal laws to introduce minimum sentences. Most of

all, it is suggested that more resources should be directed to help people with

mental health and addiction problems.

I would like to thank all of the concerned citizens for raising

the issues and working together towards a safer community for all.

Point of Order

J. Rustad: Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. The

member for Powell River–Sunshine Coast, in a heckle, accused me of: "How much

did they pay me to make that statement?" I found that particular heckle

offensive, and I would ask that the member withdraw and apologize for making it.

N. Simons: I'm not sure if he expected me to say that. I

certainly didn't say that. If it somehow hits too close to the truth or if

something that I said…

Mr. Speaker: Member.

N. Simons: …or he imagined I said….

Mr. Speaker: Member. Member.

N. Simons: I withdraw if he took offence to whatever I

might have said or he thought I said.

Oral Questions

ROLE OF SOLICITOR GENERAL IN

RCMP INVESTIGATION OF

B.C. RAIL SALE

C. James: Last week we heard more startling allegations

about the B.C. Rail investigation. Allegedly, the RCMP delayed interviewing two

key players in the scandal, former Ministers Gary Collins and Judith Reid, at

the request of the former Solicitor General. According to RCMP documents read in

court, the government was concerned that two B.C. Liberal cabinet ministers

could expose cabinet confidences.

[1355]

My question is to the current Solicitor General. Can he explain

why cabinet confidence would ever trump a criminal investigation?

Hon. W. Oppal: These are matters that arose in the Supreme

Court of British Columbia. The Leader of the Opposition knows full well that we

can't talk about those things that are before the Supreme Court.

Mr. Speaker: The Leader of the Opposition has a

supplemental.

C. James: Well, the RCMP were about to fly to Hawaii and

interview the cabinet ministers. But allegedly, the former Solicitor General

stepped in, and those interviews didn't happen. Mr. Collins has even said

publicly that he spoke to the former Solicitor General and was given details of

the nature of the investigation.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

C. James: Again to the Solicitor General: why was the then

Finance Minister, Gary Collins, a key player directly involved in the

investigation, allegedly given a heads-up?

Hon. W. Oppal: I don't know what part of the answer the

members opposite don't understand.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

Hon. W. Oppal: All of this arises out of the Supreme Court

trial that's presently being heard by Madam Justice Bennett in Vancouver. It

would be totally inappropriate for me to make any comments regarding those

allegations. They're allegations.

Mr. Speaker: The Leader of the Opposition has a further

supplemental.

C. James: Perhaps the Attorney General could tell the rest

of his colleagues, because apparently it isn't inappropriate for some of his

colleagues to comment on the court case.

The government can't have it both ways. Here in the House they

want to hide behind the courts, and they refuse to answer questions. But in the

media last week the Minister of Forests publicly commented on the matter before

the court. If it's okay for the Minister of Forests, it should be okay for the

Solicitor General.

My question again: why did the government allegedly give two of

its own cabinet ministers the heads-up during the investigation?

Hon. W. Oppal: It's always dangerous to make findings of

fact with allegations that are made before the courts. I give the same answer.

It would be improper for anyone in this House to comment on what's going on in

the Supreme Court.

R. Fleming: Well, apparently, the Minister of Forests last

week attempted to toe the line that the

[ Page 7593 ]

Attorney General puts in this House. He told the media he wasn't going to

comment on matters before the courts, and then he proceeded to do just that.

To the Attorney General: was the Minister of Forests wrong to make

those comments?

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

Hon. W. Oppal: I'll give the same answer. It's

inappropriate for us in this House to comment on what's going on in the Supreme

Court. That's fairly basic.

Mr. Speaker: Member has a supplemental.

R. Fleming: Well, day after day we've heard the Attorney

General state how inappropriate in this House it would be for anyone on his side

of the House to comment. It's been nothing but weeks of hiding from the

government. Now his colleague the Minister of Forests has spoken out. But the

Attorney General….

Interjection.

R. Fleming: I just asked him, and he won't say it's wrong.

Will the Attorney General condemn his colleague's actions?

Hon. W. Oppal: We do not comment on anything that's before

the courts.

L. Krog: It's a simple question. Can the Solicitor General

guarantee this House that the actions of his predecessor did not jeopardize the

RCMP investigation?

[1400]

Hon. W. Oppal: That question is inappropriate for a number

of reasons. First of all, we don't comment on investigations. We're not in a

position to comment as to whether or not anyone's particular actions compromised

an investigation.

Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental.

L. Krog: The government took action to protect its cabinet.

The RCMP delayed crucial interviews. Mr. Collins was given details about the

investigation, and all of that was done by the former Solicitor General, now the

Minister of Forests. Again, to the current Solicitor General: will he guarantee

that the actions of his predecessor didn't jeopardize that investigation?

Hon. W. Oppal: You know, I must say that I'm somewhat

surprised that the member, who is a member of the bar, would make loaded

comments like: "All of that was done." Allegations have been made in the Supreme

Court. They may or may not be accurate. It's for the trial judge to make certain

findings of fact. She may or may not make those findings of fact. In the

meantime, it's our business to keep out of her business.

G. Robertson: Just a very simple question about the

business at hand. Will the Attorney General say that it is inappropriate for his

colleague the Minister of Forests to comment on this case?

Hon. W. Oppal: You know, the last thing a trial judge needs

is to have a bunch of uninformed MLAs commenting on what they think….

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Please take your seat, Attorney.

Members, we won't proceed until there's quiet.

Hon. W. Oppal: You know, when I was on the bench,

periodically members of the Legislature would involve themselves in this type of

debate, and we would simply roll our eyes at the uninformed comments such as the

type that are now emanating from that side of the House.

We do not comment, for very good reason, on those matters, the

allegations that are before the courts. There are three men on trial right now

on serious charges. We don't compromise their right to a fair trial.

Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental.

G. Robertson: Let's find out how informed the Attorney

General is. Did he ask his colleague the Minister of Forests whether the

comments were made last week? If he did, did his colleague inform him that he

made those comments? If that happened, will the Attorney General, in this House,

condemn the actions of his colleague the Minister of Forests to speak out?

Hon. W. Oppal: The answer is the same. I am not going to

comment on anything that arises out of the trial.

S. Simpson: The double standard of the Attorney General in

this case is incredible. The Minister of Forests and Range told the media: "I

can tell you that at no time during my time as the Solicitor General of this

province did I influence any police investigation." That was the comment the

other day of the Minister of Forests and Range.

So will the Attorney General tell us…? Since that's a matter

before the courts…

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

S. Simpson: …will he condemn, if he believes what he says

in this House, the comments of the Minister of Forests and Range for influencing

this case?

Interjections.

[ Page 7594 ]

Mr. Speaker: Members.

[1405]

Hon. W. Oppal: It would be irresponsible of me to comment

on anything that arises out of the trial.

ACCOUNTABILITY FOR

OLYMPIC GAMES COSTS

N. Macdonald: VANOC thinks that the use of GM Place is

worth $18 million throughout the Olympics, an amount that the industry insiders

have called phenomenal and that far outstrips the industry standards. Meanwhile,

taxpayer-owned facilities are apparently worth nothing.

The question is for the minister responsible. Can the minister

tell us: what is the standard, then? Is it half a million dollars a day or

nothing at all?

Hon. C. Hansen: VANOC is responsible for negotiating

arrangements for venues, and that's a question that should be properly directed

to them.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

Interjection.

Mr. Speaker: Member.

The member has a supplemental.

N. Macdonald: Taxpayers are going to be paying for these

Olympics, and they want an accurate accounting. B.C. Place is going to show up

as free, while I assume that the exorbitant amount that's being paid to GM Place

reflects the truer cost. How can taxpayers have confidence that their best

interests are being protected when this government will not come clean on the

true cost of the Olympics?

Hon. C. Hansen: We know that the opposition party is

divided when it comes to the Olympics. We know that the Leader of the Opposition

came out opposed to the Olympics on a bunch of occasions. But we also know that

British Columbians almost overwhelmingly….

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Minister, please take your seat.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

Minister, continue.

Hon. C. Hansen: We know that British Columbians are

overwhelmingly enthusiastic about the Olympics and the great profile that it's

going to bring to this province. It's going to showcase British Columbia to the

billion-plus television audience around the world and truly catapult British

Columbia into the next generation.

Tomorrow VANOC is going to be releasing their business plan. I

think that as members have a chance to read through that, they will see that the

$600 million commitment that the province has made towards the staging of the

games is going to produce full value and the best Olympic and Paralympic Winter

Games that this world has ever seen.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

H. Bains: I think it's very clear. Every day we hear from

that side, they're clearly divided. Half the time half of them try to hide

behind one court case, and the other time the other half are trying to hide

behind another court case. That's how they're divided.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members. Members.

Take your seat, Member.

Continue.

H. Bains: The public only seems to find out about this

government's secret deals every time something goes to the courts. Another court

case, another questionable secret deal is revealed — this time over the

Olympics.

[1410]

The government has decided to go with B.C. Place free of charge

for four months. At the same time, the GM Place deal is worth over $18 million

plus rent. What is the possible explanation for this exorbitant discrepancy

between the two deals? Also, will the minister assure this House that the

donation of B.C. Place will be included in the Olympic budget as a cost to the

B.C. taxpayers?

Hon. C. Hansen: As the member knows, the Auditor General

has looked at the commitments we have made from our $600 million envelope that

we have for the staging of the games, and he has the right to do that as he goes

forward.

I think the member may be comparing apples and oranges on this.

When it comes to the use of provincially owned facilities, there are other

benefits that flow to the province, such as the revenue from all concession

sales.

Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental.

H. Bains: It's interesting that the minister will talk

about the Auditor General's report. The Auditor General was talking about the

true cost to the taxpayers, and this government continues to deny the true cost

to the taxpayers.

Many red flags around this deal are only becoming known because

someone is getting sued, and the minister, like everything else around the

Olympics, remained quiet all during this time. Who knows how

[ Page 7595 ]

many other Gateways are being kept secret from the taxpayers?

The question to the minister again: will the minister agree to

make details of this deal and all other deals public, including it in the

long-delayed business plan tomorrow?

Hon. C. Hansen: I just would like to remind the member that

VANOC is a federally incorporated, not-for-profit corporation. As such, when it

comes to the operating side of their budget, they have the responsibility to

strike whatever contracts and arrangements that they feel are appropriate for

delivering on the best-ever Olympic and Paralympic Games.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

Hon. C. Hansen: I think that it's about time the official

opposition came out and told us where they stand on the Olympics. What we hear

time and time again are members of the opposition that are nitpicking the

Olympics. They're doing everything they can to try to undermine what are the

makings of a great success story for British Columbia and something that will

profile British Columbia to the world in less than two years' time.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

J. Kwan: Let's be clear. It is British Columbians who are

on the hook for the cost overruns related to the Olympics. For this government….

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

Continue.

J. Kwan: First: "It's before the courts, and we can't

answer any questions." Now: "I'm not responsible, Mr. Speaker, so we can't

provide you with any answers."

Let's be clear. This government cannot run from this statement,

and I quote from the New Era document: "B.C. Liberals will reform how

government works from top to bottom to create the most open, democratic and

accountable government."

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

Member, just take your seat. Take your seat.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members. Members.

The member for Vancouver–Mount Pleasant has the floor.

J. Kwan: The members clap, but let's just hold for one

minute. Today the Impact of the Olympics on Community Coalition, the IOCC, gave

this government a D-minus on its performance. And you know what? It actually

includes the government's performance on public expenditure and transparency.

This government has explicitly exempted VANOC from its very laws

that ensure oversight and accountability — laws like the Freedom of Information

and Protection of Privacy Act, the Financial Information Act, the Document

Disposal Act and the Financial Disclosure Act.

[1415]

If this government is so open and accountable — and I wait for

this bench and all the government bench members to clap — will this government

live up to its own words and make VANOC and Legacies Now subject to the laws

that ensure accountability and oversight? Just say yes.

Hon. C. Hansen: Once again I will remind the member that

VANOC is a federally incorporated not-for-profit corporation. They are not an

entity of the provincial government. It would be inappropriate for us to try to

apply a provincial freedom-of-information law to a federally incorporated

not-for-profit corporation.

I know that VANOC is putting more information available for the

public to see and consume than any other Olympic organizing committee has ever

done, and I think that tomorrow will be yet another phase in that as VANOC

releases its business plan. But I think that what we will see over these next

two and a half to three years is that British Columbians are going to become

more excited about the Olympics, as they are today in every corner of British

Columbia.

We're seeing legacy projects that are rolling out — 90 different

projects around British Columbia that are benefiting every single corner of this

province. We see school children in every single corner of this province

starting to get excited about what the Olympics mean, because it means striving

for excellence, and that's exactly the kind of spirit that we want to engender

in our children.

Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental.

J. Kwan: Let's be clear. British Columbians are getting more

worried about the cost overruns for the Olympics, just like they are with the

cost overruns with the trade and convention centre expansion project.

At a conference in 2003 marking the tenth anniversary of the B.C.

Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act, Mr. Ken Dobell, in his

then capacity as the deputy to the Premier, said he now rarely writes working

notes of meetings and rapidly deletes most of his e-mails. And you wonder why

there's a culture of secrecy in this government and that the public only learns

about this government's misdeeds through court cases, Mr. Speaker.

So in this spirit, not only are VANOC and Legacies Now not subject

to the laws on disclosure of accountability, their own board meetings are not

open to the

[ Page 7596 ]

public. If the Minister Responsible for the Olympics won't step up, will

anybody — anybody in this government — step up and protect British Columbians'

interests and order VANOC and Legacies Now to open up their board meetings to

the public and ensure that they are actually subject to accountability laws, so

British Columbians know how much in cost overruns they are really going to be

facing when 2010 comes around?

Hon. C. Hansen: I'll remind the member that in the Auditor

General's report that came down last fall, the Auditor General's office did not

identify a single cost that was not already in the public domain.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

Hon. C. Hansen: He also indicated that what we had costed

out as costing a maximum of $600 million was, in his estimation, going to cost a

maximum of $600 million. But I think it's time that the 33 members of the

opposition stood up, one by one, and told the majority of British Columbians who

support the Olympic Games whether they support them.

Everything that we hear from that side of the House about the

Olympics is the typical negative, pessimistic, destructive approach that we hear

on everything else. It's time for them to get behind the Olympics. It's time for

them to get supportive.

REAL ESTATE PRACTICES OF

COQUITLAM DEVELOPER

D. Thorne: I have a question today for the Solicitor

General. I would like to know if the Solicitor General will be investigating the

recent real estate practices of a well-known Coquitlam developer — practices

which have resulted in dozens of families in my riding being ripped off and

losing their dream of home-ownership.

[1420]

Hon. J. Les: As I have not been apprised of any of the

details surrounding that, I'll take the question on notice.

M. Farnworth: Well, I'll apprise the minister, and if his

staff had been watching CTV News , they would have known what's going on.

Interjections.

M. Farnworth: This is a new question, hon. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker: Continue.

M. Farnworth: On the news this weekend the minister said

he's not apprised of what was going on.

Mr. Speaker: Member, is it a new question?

M. Farnworth: People have bought houses, put deposits

down….

Mr. Speaker: Member. Member, just for a second…. The

Solicitor General took that question on notice. Now, if it is a new question,

we'll accept it, but it has to be a new question on a different topic. Member,

continue.

M. Farnworth: Will the Solicitor General examine the

relationship between the developer and look at the amount of donations made by

the developer to the B.C. Liberal Party and ensure that there is a proper and

thorough investigation of the real estate practices and the ripoffs that have

taken place for the people in the city of Coquitlam?

Hon. J. Les: Again, Mr. Speaker, I will take that question

on notice.

FUNDING FOR MARY MANNING CENTRE

M. Karagianis: On Friday a government minister met with the

Mary Manning Centre and told them that this government can't fund both

prevention and support programs. That minister said it's too costly — that the

credit rating of the province would be downgraded if they tried to fund all of

those kinds of services.

With the government's pet project, the Vancouver Trade and

Convention Centre, now running in the hundreds of millions of dollars over

budget, we have ministers who are forcing sexually abused children to wait on

lists for counselling services. Apparently, it's because their needs would break

the bank of this government. The Mary Manning Centre requires $170,000 in order

to keep its counsellors in the service. That is 0.0005 percent of the huge cost

overruns that this government has subjected us to at the convention centre.

I think that this is an issue for all MLAs in this House to take

responsibility for. It's a moral obligation for us to protect children. I think

that it's very obvious that sexually abused children do not count in this House.

Mr. Speaker: Member. Can the member put the question.

M. Karagianis: I would like to ask the Minister of Children

and Family Development if he will commit today to fund the Mary Manning Centre

the $170,000 they require to keep their counsellors in that service.

Hon. T. Christensen: The Mary Manning Centre continues to

receive considerable funding from the Ministry of Children and Family

Development to do the valuable work that they do. Their core funding has been

increased to $320,000 this year from MCFD. Beyond that, the ministry has

committed to continuing to work with the Mary Manning Centre and other service

providers in the capital region to ensure that children who require counselling

due to sexual abuse

[ Page 7597 ]

receive counselling. That's the commitment the ministry has made to the

centre, and we're continuing to work with them on that basis.

As I said last week, I don't believe that it would be responsible

for us to budget for the ministry based on what we read in the newspaper or on a

crisis basis. Rather, we will continue to work with the community. We'll work

with the 58 community organizations that were involved in a broad consultation

to determine how to allocate new funding, and we won't step in at a political

level to undermine that community engagement process.

[End of question period.]

Point of Privilege

Hon. R. Coleman: I rise to reserve my right to raise a

matter of privilege.

S. Fraser: I seek leave to submit petitions.

Mr. Speaker: Proceed.

[1425]

Petitions

S. Fraser: I have petitions with hundreds of signatures

from residents across B.C. urging the government to move forward with the Safe

Antifreeze Act.

Orders of the Day

Hon. M. de Jong: Mr. Speaker, I call Committee of Supply.

For the information of members, in this chamber it's the estimates of the

Ministry of Health, and in Committee A, it's the estimates of the Ministry of

Community Services.

Committee of Supply

ESTIMATES: MINISTRY OF HEALTH

The House in Committee of Supply (Section B); H. Bloy in the

chair.

The committee met at 2:30 p.m.

On Vote 36: ministry operations, $12,819,670,000.

Hon. G. Abbott: First of all, I'd like to introduce the

very capable staff who are with me. They are among the leadership of, I think,

an exceptional ministry leadership group that we are very fortunate to have in

this province.

On my immediate right is my deputy minister, Gord Macatee. On my

left is Assistant Deputy Minister Manjit Sidhu. Behind me is Rebecca Harvey, who

is the executive director with the health authorities division. Of course, other

staff will be joining us at various points through the process here today and

through the week. I'll endeavour to introduce them as they join us.

I would like to thank them collectively for all the hard work they

do every day of the year to try to ensure that this very, very large public

undertaking that we call the health care delivery system is delivered as

effectively and efficiently as is possible. I think we are seeing some great

work that is resulting every day in better care for British Columbians.

I do want to make a few opening comments here, and then I'll look

forward to hearing the comments of the opposition Health critic and the

opposition's vision for health care in British Columbia. I want to open up with

context.

British Columbia has a very good health care delivery system. It's

not perfect, but it is a very good health care delivery system. Certainly, from

the Conference Board of Canada, the Cancer Advocacy Coalition of Canada, Wait

Time Alliance, British Columbia gets very good marks, very good ratings for the

kind of health care that is delivered each and every day by the doctors, the

nurses, the residential care aides, home care aides, the paramedics — all of the

front-line staff that do a great job each and every day of the year for patients

in British Columbia.

We have been working tirelessly with the leaders at the health

authorities, the senior executives, the administrators at the five regional

health authorities and the Provincial Health Services Authority to identify ways

that we can do things even better. That is a process that goes on each and every

day of every year.

Among the priority areas that we have been pursuing in recent

years are wait times. We've seen significant improvements in pretty much every

area of wait times over the past few years. It remains a challenge. It will

continue to remain a challenge as we see, demographically, our society aging and

the proportion of an elder population that, on an aggregated basis, makes more

demands for health care services. As that, particularly the baby boomer,

generation moves through their elder years, it is going to continue to be a

challenge to deliver timely surgeries in this province.

We're also looking at targeted funding to attract and retain

health human resources. We've done a lot in that area since 2001. It's been a

major initiative on the part of this government, a major partnership between the

Ministry of Health, the Ministry of Advanced Education and others to try to

ensure that we have enough doctors, nurses, paramedics and all the rest that we

need to effectively deliver health care in this province.

Aboriginal health has also been identified as a priority area by

our government. Health outcomes for the aboriginal population, first nations

population, in British Columbia are not what they should be. We do not have a

proud history in respect of participation by aboriginal people in the

professional side of health care delivery. Nor do we have a proud history in

terms of the health outcomes which are enjoyed or not enjoyed by aboriginal

people in this province.

We are working in partnership with the health leadership and

political leadership of all of the leadership groups among first nations and

aboriginal people in the province to build stronger partnerships, to

[ Page 7598 ]

ensure that we have better representation of aboriginal people among health

professionals, to ensure a range of health outcomes from life expectancy to

mortality at birth — all of these measures.

[1435]

We are committed, along with aboriginal leadership and first

nations leadership, to ensure that we improve on those outcomes. We're also

looking forward to seeing more partnerships with the federal government to

ensure that we, in concert with the federal government and with first nations

leadership, get the kind of efficiency and effectiveness in program delivery

that has not been seen, to date, in this province.

As we will no doubt canvass in these estimates, we are making

very, very good progress towards the realization of the commitment of 5,000

incremental residential care and assisted-living units in this province. The

number grows each and every day, and I am entirely confident that we will be

fulfilling our commitment in respect of those incremental units — for the

elderly in this province, generally speaking.

We're also seeing mental health and addictions programs and

services as a priority for the government. That's a challenging area, but again,

we've made some progress, and there's more to be done.

Emergency departments are sometimes a barometer of the health care

system. Often when one sees a controversy in the newspaper or on television, it

will revolve around emergency departments. There's been a lot of great work done

by a lot of people over the past couple of years, and I hope we have a chance to

talk more about that.

Of course, an ongoing priority through until September-October is

the Conversation on Health — an opportunity, as has been the case, to engage

with literally thousands of British Columbians about their health care system

and how they think we can improve on it.

In all of those priority areas we've made considerable progress.

We're building on some great achievements, and we're investing a record amount

of funding this fiscal year — more than ever before. Generally, when we throw in

all of the different components of operations, it's close to $13.1 billion for

Health, just on the operational side. On top of that, of course, are the

investments we're making in capital as well. Close to $14 billion this year of

our provincial budget is going to be devoted to Health. That, I think,

represents about a 50-percent increase over when we took office, when on the

operations side the cost was about $8.3 billion annually.

We want to look at issues of funding, I'm sure, but we also want

to look at issues of sustainability. How do we ensure that as the society, the

population ages, we are going to meet what is inevitably going to be growing

demand in a whole bunch of areas and manage it within a sustainable framework?

That is a challenge. It's a challenge that's faced each and every day by the

ministry, by the health authorities and by many of those who provide within

those organizations.

I've mentioned the investment we're making, just over $13 billion,

on the operations side. That represents 43.5 percent of the government's total

budget for '07-08. It also represents an investment of 785 million incremental

dollars over last year, an increase of 6.4 percent since a year ago.

In addition to that, we have a further $100 million that has been

allocated to what we call the health innovation fund. With that, the total

reaches $885 million, or a 7.3-percent lift, year over year, for health care

delivery in this province — by far the largest lift for any of the areas of

public service that are represented on the benches here. It speaks to the

commitment of this government to continuous improvement in the health care

system in this province.

Overall Health spending will have grown by 51.8 percent since the

year 2000, or about four times the rate of inflation during that period. British

Columbia's health system will also benefit over the next three years with $2.1

billion health sector capital spending, including funding from government,

regional hospital districts and foundations.

[1440]

The government is increasing capital grants to authorities by 22

percent, from $330 million in '06-07 to $401 million in '07-08. Overall,

government has increased its capital grants to health authorities by 46 percent,

or $127 million, since 2001-2002. New capital funding projects — such as

building new hospitals, renovating existing facilities, purchasing new medical

equipment — are benefiting British Columbia's patients right now. The health

innovation fund is going to be a great source of new ideas, new practices and

new techniques that will allow us to do even better.

The six health authorities mentioned earlier are the ministry's

key organizational partners in delivering services to British Columbians. The

services include health promotion and protection services, primary care,

hospital services, home and community care, mental health and addictions

services, and end-of-life care. There are no unimportant areas of health care

delivery. They are all important, and our health authorities are key partners in

delivering them.

Funding directed to B.C.'s health authorities will increase to

$7.53 billion in '07-08 from $7.06 billion in '06-07. This represents an

increase of 6.7 percent year over year to our health authorities in this

province.

I should note a little bit about the Conversation on Health. It

was launched by the Premier last September. It was our hope that we would engage

British Columbians over approximately one year with ideas on how to improve the

health care system. It has been, to date, a tremendous success. There have been

over 120,000 people who've visited the website, with more than 3.3 million hits

on the website. Of those who visited, over 9,500 British Columbians have made

oral and written submissions to the Conversation on Health.

I think if you compare it to any other process, the Romanow

commission or otherwise, that has been undertaken in this province, federally or

anywhere else, we have seen just remarkable engagement by British Columbians

with respect to the Conversation on Health, with 4,000 British Columbians

calling the toll-free line. Over 6,400 British Columbians have

[ Page 7599 ]

registered to attend a regional public form, health professional meeting or

patient meeting.

Input gathered from the conversation will become part of the

record for the Conversation on Health, and all input received by the

Conversation on Health team will be put into a final report and submitted to

government. This report will help determine what legislation, programs and

services are needed to protect and improve health care in the future.

I did note, earlier, the issue of surgical wait times and patient

care. The government is committed to providing access to safe, high-quality

surgeries, and we're investing millions to reduce wait times and provide more

surgeries as part of our provincial wait-time strategy. Surgical data shows that

most wait times for elective surgeries are dropping or stable, despite

additional demand as a result of our aging population and medical technology

advances.

Close to 460,000 hospital-based surgeries and treatments are

performed in B.C. each year, an increase of more than 12 percent since 2001. The

number of surgeries for young patients who come to British Columbia's Children's

Hospital in Vancouver increased 16 percent, from 8,200 in 2001-02 to over 9,500

in '05-06.

As part of our throne speech commitment, we've announced that

we'll be introducing a surgical patient registry, a database that will track

patients waiting for surgery throughout the province. This registry will give

patients more control over their surgical options. British Columbia's surgical

patient registry is a key component of government's wait-time strategy, as the

province continues to increase the number of surgeries performed. Implementation

of the registry is now underway and will be fully operational by January 1,

[1445]

I want to note, also, a little bit about the emergency departments

in our province. B.C. shares the challenge of congestion of emergency

departments that we see across North America. Patients will now benefit from a

series of initiatives developed through the province's plan to reduce congestion

in emergency departments. The teams were set up in April 2006 to focus on the 15

emergency departments of the largest and busiest hospitals in B.C. The Ministry

of Health will ensure improvements are met with quarterly data reports from

health authorities.

On the 5,000 beds, as I noted, we're doing very well. Between June

2001 and March 2007 we've built a total of 8,494 new and replacement beds and

units, with 3,196 net new beds and units since 2001. We know there is great and

growing demand.

Over the next 25 years this province's population of people over

65 — including me — will more than double to 1.4 million. By 2020 there will be

more people over 65 than there will be people under 20. That gap will continue

to grow, at least for another decade or two. This will be the first time in the

history of our public health system that we've seen such a large proportion of

the population in this age bracket.

The silver tsunami is the greatest single challenge that our

health system will face over the coming years. We are living longer. We are

living healthier in British Columbia than pretty much any other jurisdiction in

the world. We have some of the longest life spans of any group of people in the

world, but of course, that does come with some issues related to the challenges

for health care sustainability.

On aboriginal health, in November last year government acted on

its commitment to close the health gap between first nations and non–first

nations over the next decade. The First Nations Health Plan —

Supporting the Health and Wellness of First Nations in British Columbia is

the name of the document, which we all supported. It will be integral in the

design and delivery of health initiatives to close those gaps. We know that

first nations live an average of seven years less than other British Columbians,

and we need to find ways to improve their health outcomes.

One of the highlights of the first nations health plan

includes an aboriginal physician, Dr. Evan Adams, to advise on aboriginal health

issues. He'll be working with Dr. Perry Kendall, the provincial health officer.

Other highlights: improved access to primary health care services

in aboriginal health and healing centres; an aboriginal mental health and

addictions plan, which includes counselling programs to build community

capacity; and a new $6.3 million health centre in Lytton to improve acute care

and community health services and to better meet the needs of first nations and

other area residents. The need to improve the health of Canada's first nations

is a priority for our government, and we share the responsibility to take

action.

I also want to just make a note or two on health human resources

planning. This is an area of challenge, given our demographics. It's not just

the general population that is getting older. The largest bloc of our doctors

and nurses are also getting older.

That's why we have been undertaking some strategies to address

that, including the first-ever nursing strategy in 2001 when we took office. We

have now committed $146 million to that nursing strategy. The aim is to educate,

recruit and retain the best-qualified nurses in British Columbia. Since 2001 the

total increase in nurses with a practising licence in B.C. is more than 2,935.

We are making some progress — fighting the demographics of it all

but making some progress. The Ministry of Health has worked with the Ministry of

Advanced Education to expand the nursing seats in the province, with more than

3,021 new nursing seats since 2001 — a 75-percent increase — with another

300-and-some that are going to be put in place this fall. We're going to be out,

I believe, to 3,347 new nursing seats, or an 82-percent increase over the number

of nursing spaces since we took office in B.C.

[1450]

Nurse practitioners also are something new and innovative that

we've introduced to British Columbia. The first group of nurse practitioners

graduated in 2005 and have been just remarkably valuable in terms of the work

they're doing in both urban and rural settings in B.C. The aboriginal nursing

strategy is also aiming at

[ Page 7600 ]

getting a broader representation of aboriginal people among the nurses in our

province.

Like nurses, we're also working hard to ensure we have a

sufficient number of doctors to serve a growing and aging population. In 2007

there are 9,285 physicians in B.C., according to the Canadian Medical

Association, compared to 8,147 in 2001. Since 2001 the number of physicians has

grown by 14 percent, while British Columbia's total population grew by 6.5

percent.

Through some strategies working with the BCMA, we've also

increased the number of doctors practising in rural areas from 1,765 to 1,883 —

a 6.7-percent increase. We've invested more than $40 million to expand the UBC

clinical academic campuses at key teaching hospitals throughout British

Columbia. We are, through that process, teaching and training a new generation

of physicians for this province.

In '06-07 the Ministry of Education allocated funding to increase

new education spaces — an additional 173 seats for allied health professionals.

That, along with the doubling of the number of physicians' spaces at UBC and

elsewhere, is going to make a tremendous difference. In total, 915 new seats

have been added to allied health professionals. I think all of that speaks to a

very powerful commitment by our government towards training, educating more

doctors, nurses and allied health professionals than ever before in the history

of this province.

On mental health and addictions. In partnership with the regional

health authorities, we have been greatly improving the services to the mentally

ill and substance-addicted. More than a billion dollars is spent each year on

mental health and addiction services by the health care system in B.C. — almost

a 28-percent increase over 2000-2001.

Some recent examples of successes in our investments in mental

health and addictions include a new $19 million mental health building at B.C.'s

Children's Hospital and B.C. Women's Hospital for children, youth and women with

serious mental health challenges; an $11 million addiction transition home has

opened on the downtown east side, and the four-storey complex will be run by the

Salvation Army for up to 85 homeless people who have been through rehab; and the

Cottonwood Lodge, a $5.5 million, 24-bed specialized residential facility on the

Riverview Hospital grounds, of which I was proud to be a part of the opening in

December 2006.

To date, almost 325 beds have been opened in communities around

the province as part of the Riverview redevelopment project. Health authorities

have received funding transfers for every patient transferred from Riverview. We

are committed to continuing that improvement. There's much more to do, and we

know that, but I'm confident that we are making progress in the right direction

in respect of those challenging areas of the health delivery.

Cancer care. I'm proud to report that British Columbia is a leader

in terms of the most favourable outcomes in North America, and in fact, some of

the best in the entire world. According to 2006 estimates in the Canadian

Cancer Statistics report, British Columbia women have the second overall

lowest incidence rate of cancer in Canada and are far below most of the national

incidence rates for individual cancers. B.C. women have the lowest incidence

rate for breast, kidney, and colorectal cancer. B.C. men have the third-lowest

incidence rates of cancer, and B.C. men have the lowest incidence rate for lung,

colorectal and kidney cancer as well.

The report card noted that B.C. has the shortest wait time in

Canada in time from referral to first appointment, ranging from 12 to 14 days.

Another study, entitled Patient Experiences with Ambulatory Cancer Care in

B.C., 2005/06 , surveyed 7,000 people in B.C. who had recent experience with

our cancer care system. The study reported 97 percent of respondents rated the

quality of their overall cancer care as good to excellent.

[1455]

Through government investments and prevention, treatment and

research, B.C. has created a cancer care system which is recognized as a model

for other provinces and, indeed, for the world. People from all over the world

come to visit the B.C. Cancer Agency to see what a remarkable approach to cancer

is undertaken there. The B.C. Cancer Agency, which is funded through the B.C.

government through the Provincial Health Services Authority, provides

provincially coordinated cancer treatment and cancer-related programs.

Just in closing, I think we've made some excellent progress on

health care since we took office in 2001. In virtually every area that one can

look at we have made great improvements. We know the challenges ahead are not

going to be easy. They're going to be very tough. But I have enormous confidence

in the team that we have assembled at the Ministry of Health, and I have

enormous confidence in the team that has been assembled at our health

authorities throughout the province.

I think British Columbia is very well-positioned to continue to

lead the nation and, I hope, continue in many respects to lead the world in

terms of the provision of health care services in the province.

A. Dix: Thank you to the minister for his opening

statement. I was delighted to see the minister got all that in, in the 30

minutes he had. That's a good start to our debate and gives him an opportunity

to lay out some of his ideas and achievements over the last year.

I guess I'd like to start by saying that I think we're in both an

exciting and important moment for our health care system. I was reflecting on —

I was doing as the minister does around the province at the many meetings and

public meetings we all have, to listen to people's views on health care — what a

great time it is to be alive and what a great place Canada is to be alive in.

When you think of the history of mankind, the fact of the matter

is that in the last 60 years we've gained, I think, as many years of life

expectancy as we gained in the previous several thousand years. Certainly,

that's an indication and a positive thing. We tend to think of things like

silver tsunamis as negative things, but in

[ Page 7601 ]

fact it's our goal and our aspiration to ensure that as life expectancy

increases, the quality of that life remains extremely high.

I know that while the minister has some staff here, there are some

other staff somewhere in the back who are also paying attention to the debate.

We're going to start with some general questions on the health budget today and

debate on the health budget, some issues on the health authorities. Later today

some of my colleagues are going to deal with some of the local issues they have

with respect to health authorities — the member for New Westminster with respect

to Royal Columbian Hospital, the member for Cowichan-Ladysmith and the member

for North Coast — between five and six.

My colleague who is the opposition critic for mental health will

be speaking and dealing with those issues tomorrow morning. On Wednesday my

colleague responsible for seniors health will be dealing with some of the

long-term care issues that the minister referred to. Those are some of the

debates we'll be having. On Thursday I think we're going to deal with the

Ambulance Service, public health issues, preventative health issues, etc.

For those watching the debate who haven't had the opportunity to

hear when it's going to go and when their issues might be raised, that's kind of

what we're looking for in terms of the debate over the next few days.

This is an unusual budget for the Ministry of Health. When it was

tabled, there was something of a note at the beginning of the budget indicating

that budgets had not been ready and in fact deficit budgets were still in place

in the two largest health authorities in British Columbia, the Fraser Health

Authority and the Vancouver Coastal Health Authority.

I'm wondering if the minister, in light of that, had more

information to table about those budgets today — when they would be finalized.

Obviously, it's May in the fiscal year. When will those budgets in the Fraser

Health Authority and the Vancouver Coastal Health Authority be finalized?

[1500]

Hon. G. Abbott: For the fiscal year 2006-2007 all of the

health authorities are completing their year-end audits, which will give a final

number with respect to their final financial position for the year ending March

31, 2007.

All of the authorities have submitted their financial plans to the

ministry with respect to '07-08, and all of those plans are currently under

review in the ministry.

A. Dix: The minister will be familiar, of course, with the

concerns expressed by the former chair of the Fraser Health Authority, Mr.

Purchase, with respect to the way the budget process was undertaken this year.

Just to read from the unedited version of the letter of

resignation that Mr. Purchase sent to the Minister of Health, he said: "This

year's budget process has been totally unacceptable. Our board feels it has been

kept out of the communications loop by government and, quite frankly, questions

at times why it exists. The very community leaders we entice to provide good

governance and business acumen to the management of the health sector now appear

totally ignored."

It's been a number of years since the present health authority

model was put in place by the government. How does the minister respond to Mr.

Purchase's concerns about the budget process issue?

Hon. G. Abbott: What we attempted to do in the budget

discussions that led up to the February budget in 2007 was to have discussion,

at a much earlier point in time than ever before, with the health authorities to

give them a sense of what they could expect for the coming budget year and to

get some discussion with relation to that point.

We had never, at any point, initiated budget discussions as early

as we did this year. As the member knows, when his party was in government in

the 1990s, it was routine for health authorities to actually learn about what

their fiscal requisition had been months into the budget year. It was sometimes

two, three, four months after the budget year began that health authorities

finally learned what it was they had to expend.

We were trying to have those discussions at an earlier date than

ever before. That set up some awkward challenges in relation to how to have

those discussions while at the same time ensuring that security around the

numbers that were contained in those budget discussions could be ensured.

I know Mr. Purchase was frustrated by that. I think we were all

frustrated by that. I think I was frustrated by that. I take full responsibility

for that. I committed to the health authority chairs that we would improve on

that process, that we would have some better opportunities for discussion in the

coming year, and I remain confident we will do that.

[1505]

A. Dix: Returning to what Mr. Purchase had to say. I guess

I'll ask the minister this question. Mr. Purchase suggested that information

around the budgets was shared only with board chairs and CEOs but that board

members were kept in the dark in December of 2006.

Does he stand by that approach? Does he think that, given the

obvious oaths of confidentiality that board members take…? I think that with

respect to those issues, board members who are appointed, regardless of the

government, take their role very seriously in terms of confidentiality.

Does he think that keeping board members in the dark under those

circumstances is (

a) healthy for the proper functioning of health authorities

and (

b) a course of action that he is going to continue to follow in the future?

Hon. G. Abbott: Just to be clear, the issue was not that

health authority chairs not share their understanding of the content of the

preliminary budget documents which were discussed at leadership council. It was

that

[ Page 7602 ]

those documents not be reproduced and shared to that extent.

There are some important traditions around respect for budgeting

confidentiality that needed to be observed, notwithstanding our aim to have

earlier discussions of this than at any point before in the history of our

province.

We have and will develop better mechanisms to ensure that we can

have that sharing of knowledge but, at the same time, ensure that all of the

appropriate confidences around budget development are observed as well.

A. Dix: Mr. Purchase in his letter said, and I'm quoting….

One of the interests of this — given, as the Minister says, the secrecy

sometimes involved in these processes — is it shines a light on how, I guess,

the ministry and the Premier's office function with respect to their

relationship to the health authorities.

Mr. Purchase in the letter said:

"After an enormous amount of work over the Christmas break,

both Keith Anderson and I" — Mr. Anderson is the interim CEO of the Fraser

Health Authority for those watching the debate — "in two separate letters in

early January clearly outlined the impact this inadequate funding would have on

Fraser Health next year. Based on that funding information, bed closures and

service cuts would be inevitable."

I have three questions for the minister with respect to

that assertion by Mr. Purchase. The first is…. The significant portion of that

assertion was deleted from the copy of this letter sent out by the Minister of

Health, and now we know that was on the ministry's own accord and not based on

any FOI principle. I wanted to know whether the minister agreed that hiding that

information from Mr. Purchase's letter of resignation was the right course.

[1510]

Secondly, I'd like to ask whether that decision to sever — in

other words, white out — that portion and other portions of the letter which

seem not to have any personal information in them…. Where in the Ministry of

Health would that be made? Was it made in the freedom of information and privacy

branch of the Ministry of Health? If not, where was it made?

Thirdly, and probably most importantly: does the Minister of

Health agree with the assertion? The assertion is that as a result of the budget

of the Ministry of Health, the Minister of Health's own appointed chair — we're

talking about this fiscal year, and not a member of the opposition but his own

appointed chair — is saying that bed closures and service cuts would be

inevitable.

Those are three questions for the minister, and I'll sit down and

hear his answer.

Hon. G. Abbott: The member asked, really, two questions

here. In regard to the first portion of his question, around the

freedom-of-information and protection-of-privacy severing of the Keith Purchase

letter, there was no FOI request submitted at the time of the release of that

document. Protection-of-privacy issues were an issue at the point of time in

which the ministry released that letter. We needed to secure some agreements

around the release of information before we could do that.

The decision to sever the document in the way that it was, was

made by the officials as is appropriate under the act, and I'm entirely

supportive of the work that they did in respect to that.

If the member has a different view, then he can have a look at the

letter. He asked the freedom-of-information and protection-of-privacy

commissioner to launch a review of the way in which the letter had been severed.

The commissioner made some very useful observations in respect of the way in

which the letter was severed, and I stand fully behind my officials in the work

that they have done.

To the latter portion of the member's question, in respect of the

apprehensions stated in the letter from Mr. Purchase about bed closures, service

cuts, etc., I have to note that the letter was sent at a point in time at which

the budgetary allocations had not been finalized. I believe that Mr. Purchase

probably knew that, given that we were some distance from budget day in British

Columbia at that point in time. I'm sure the concerns he is articulating in that

letter honestly express his apprehensions at that point in time, but that was

preliminary information only that he was responding to.

In fact, the final budgetary allocation was considerably greater

than what he was responding to in that correspondence. In short, the world

changed somewhat between the time that Mr. Purchase sent his letter and the time

that the Minister of Finance released her budget for fiscal '07-08.

[1515]

It should be noted that the budgetary allocation for the Fraser

Health Authority is 7.1 percent plus their allocation for the health innovation

fund. So the year-over-year lift that has been devoted to the Fraser Health

Authority is really about 7.3 percent. It's a very, very substantial amount of

money. There are probably a number of ministries that would operate in our

government for less money than was the increase for the Fraser Health Authority

year over year from '06-07 to '07-08.

A. Dix: Well, the minister…. Of course, I presume he thinks

that the $65 million deficit of the Fraser Health Authority is a small amount of

money, but I think that he would agree with me that it is a significant amount

of money to deal with in any budget year.

A couple of weeks ago Mr. Anderson…. Let me ask another question

first, then. Those letters referred to in Mr. Purchase's letters, the letters

from Keith Anderson and from Mr. Purchase in early January — I wrote to the

minister recently, asking for copies of those. The minister was, shall we say,

reluctant in his response.

Will the minister today share with us — because, after all, we're

debating the very estimates, the very sums of money that he was talking about —

those letters so all members of the House will be able to judge them and to

consider them as we consider voting the budget for the Fraser Health Authority

and the Ministry of Health?

[ Page 7603 ]

Hon. G. Abbott: I understand that the member has a

freedom-of-information and protection-of-privacy application for those letters.

They are being prepared for release, and in due course, when the officials have

completed their work in respect of the release of those letters, they shall be

released.

A. Dix: Of course, Minister, one of the things severed by

the ministry — and they've never put this to any kind of independent

freedom-of-information test — was in fact the very existence of those letters.

One of the things severed from the original Keith Purchase letter was the

existence of those very letters.

Finally, on that, does the minister really think that the

assertion by Mr. Purchase that we have "a crisis situation" in the Fraser Health

region…? Does he really think that that should be protected by privacy?

Hon. G. Abbott: The member seems to have a quarrel with the

way in which the designated officials responsible for the administration of

Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act initiatives in the ministry

are not properly undertaking their work. If he has that apprehension, he can ask

the commissioner once again to review the work.

The commissioner has undertaken that work. His letter is a matter

of public record. If the member has some suggestions about how the Freedom of

Information and Protection of Privacy Act ought to be improved in this province,

I think he has an opportunity in some of the review work being undertaken in

respect to that act.

A. Dix: I guess my question is then…. I'll just read from

the recent message from the interim CEO of the Fraser Health Authority. Before I

get to that point, I want to ask the minister about the interim tag. He knows

that after the government fired his predecessor in February 2005, Mr. Anderson

stepped up and took on the challenge of interim CEO. It's been actually more

than a year since the minister said it had been way too long to replace Mr.

Anderson.

I'm wondering if the minister could enlighten us on whether he

thinks that there are many organizations of the size of Fraser Health in either

the private or public sector that ought to go that long without having stability

and a clear sense at the top — having a permanent CEO — whether he now thinks

that a year on top of too long is too long, and whether he can let us know how

it's going. Is there good news from New Zealand, from Iceland, from some other

parts of the world that the minister would like to let us know about today?

[1520]

Hon. G. Abbott: I want to say that Keith Anderson has done

a great job as the interim CEO at Fraser Health Authority. He has acquitted

himself remarkably well in respect of the issues that confront Fraser Health. He

has enjoyed my confidence, and he continues to enjoy my confidence as the

interim CEO at Fraser Health.

The chair and board of Fraser Health have been engaged for some

number of months now in recruiting potential permanent CEOs for Fraser Health.

The process has been extensive and intensive. I know they are nearing the

conclusion of that process, and I expect that the chair and the board will

announce who the new CEO is sometime, hopefully, in the near future. At an

appropriate time they will be announcing who the successor is.

A. Dix: I think people know this in Fraser Health. It's not

us, unfortunately, who have sort of shown a little bit of lack of faith in Mr.

Anderson. It's the government. I mean, this period is a long time to be left out

there: two years and three months. It shows, I think, a lack of commitment to

the important issues facing the Fraser Health Authority, which is the

fastest-growing health authority in the province. It's an important health

authority, and I think the minister would acknowledge that.

I agree with him that Mr. Anderson has been remarkably patient

with the government's indecisiveness, under the circumstances. But nonetheless,

hopefully the minister would agree with me that two years and four months is way

too long for an organization of that value.

I want to ask about the letter we referred to in the House last

week from Mr. Anderson, where he talks about the deficit. The deficit was $65

million in the budget. In February it was announced to be $65 million in the

document. In fact, the minister's three-year fiscal plan notes that the two

health authorities, Vancouver Coastal and Fraser Health Authority, have combined

projected deficits of $119 million. That's a pretty significant combined

deficit. I think the minister would agree.

In the letter Mr. Anderson says: "Given these other requirements,

Fraser Health will need to rein in our spending by $65 million if we are to

operate within our available resources." So does the minister today…? As we

debate the budget of the Ministry of Health, and as he invites British

Columbians who live in the Fraser Health Authority to address the issues in

Fraser Health within the context of the Conversation on Health, can the minister

tell us what the plan is? What are the measures that are being taken?

If it's not, as Mr. Purchase suggests, service cuts and bed

closures…. If Mr. Purchase is wrong, and that $65 million can be found elsewhere

— a $65 million budget for a mid-size hospital, it would be fair to say, is a

lot of the money — can the minister let us know, before we vote these Health

estimates today, what the plan is to close the $65 million deficit that is

sitting in the midst of his budget and within the government's budget?

[1525]

Hon. G. Abbott: I think the first thing that we ought to

understand is that Fraser Health has an annual budget for operations of about $2

billion. Three percent of that $2 billion would be in the area of $60 million.

In short, this is a very large budget.

Often in budget-making processes, people identify a range of

things that they would like to see in their

[ Page 7604 ]

budget. Whether we can afford all of those things is a matter to reconcile,

but the plans for Fraser Health are under review. I am entirely confident that

Fraser Health will be able to balance their budget without impacting patient

care in any way.

We will certainly see much attention focused on non-clinical

areas, opportunities for savings through broader procurement, looking at issues

like overtime, administration costs and alternate service delivery. All of these

things are a matter of attention and discussion, but we certainly are very

confident that Fraser Health Authority will produce a balanced budget without in

any way compromising patient care. That has been our experience with Fraser

Health throughout the 21st century — that they have made appropriate changes to

succeed in meeting that goal.

A. Dix: In those areas, the kinds of suggestions that the

minister has made, is it not the case that an organization such as Fraser

Health, which has to deal with budget issues every year…? I think the minister

would agree that the Fraser Health Authority has more unexpected pressures than

your average government organization.

I think that it's fair to say, with the population in the region,

with issues…. One could just imagine the single issue of diabetes and its growth

in parts of the Fraser Health Authority — the growth of type 2 diabetes. Just

that one issue alone, one could imagine, increased costs.

Is he saying that there is somehow, in the areas that he has

talked about — procurement and other areas, areas on the side, non-clinical

areas — $65 million in fat, currently, in the Fraser Health Authority? Is that

what he's trying to let us understand? Or is it in fact not the case that the

budget presented by the Minister of Health is going to force the Fraser Health

Authority to cut essential services and close beds, just as the minister's own

appointee Mr. Purchase said it would?

[1530]

Hon. G. Abbott: I noted earlier that of all of the regional

health authorities, Fraser Health in fact got the largest increase in allocation

year over year of any health authority. Some 7.3 percent lift year over year for

the Fraser Health Authority — that's a very, very substantial increase for one

year. It represents about $112 million in incremental dollars — again, a huge

lift — plus, of course, their opportunity to access a share of the $100 million

health innovation fund.

Just so the member is clear, the '06-07 total was $1.65 billion,

approximately. We have incrementally added $15.57 million for the 5,000-bed

commitment, $6.4 million for the FMM wait-list, $32.2 million for wages, $33.4

million for Abbotsford and Surrey capital projects and operations associated

with those, and $1.4 million MSP allocation.

[S. Hammell in the chair.]

The member said that Fraser was the fastest-growing of the health

regions. That is reflected in the fact that under the population needs–based

formula, the allocation for Fraser Health is one of the largest. It's over $57

million in the population needs–based funding formula for them, bringing the

allocation '07-08 to $1.768 billion. Plus, of course, they've got some

additional revenues as well, bringing their overall budget to close to $2

billion.

A. Dix: It's clear. Mr. Anderson's letter, in fact, refers

to the increase in funding, and he says that essentially, all of the money is

targeted to some of the things that the minister has just mentioned. On top of

all that, they have to cut $65 million.

Can the minister tell us: is there a plan? We're now into May in

the fiscal year. The minister knows that if you're going to cut that kind of

money out of a budget, even a very large budget like Fraser Health Authority's,

given that most of that money is clearly spoken for…. I mean, there isn't a lot

of room there, unless the minister, as he suggests, believes that there might be

$65 million in fat.

Can he tell us — can he present to us, can he give us any serious

indication of anything adding up to anywhere near $65 million — what cuts the

people in the Fraser Health Authority are going to expect as a result of this

budget? As the minister will note, there was a special note at the front of the

budget that said: "Sorry about this. We can't sign off on the budgets this year.

The chairs won't sign off on the budget." Not just Mr. Purchase but the current

chair refused to sign off on the budget this year.

Can the minister tell this House and tell people in the Fraser

Valley where the $65 million has come from? What patient services are going to

be cut?

Hon. G. Abbott: The member keeps referencing a $65 million

cut. That is not the case. In fact, Fraser Health will enjoy an incremental

lift, year over year, of $112 million, plus they will have, as well, a share of

the health innovation fund. Since 2001 we have seen over $500 million in

incremental dollars going towards Fraser Health. We have made and we continue to

make a huge investment in health care in Fraser Health. I think that the board

and the senior administration are doing a tremendous job at Fraser Health.

The member is confusing what people might like to have in terms of

budget and what they may need in their budget. That is what we are reconciling

in the current review.

A. Dix: It's not me, with great respect to the minister,

that's talking about $65 million in cuts. It's in the budget document. The

minister will agree — or at least I think he will agree — that there isn't going

to be a deficit in Fraser Health, that Fraser Health isn't able to run a

deficit. Maybe I'll ask him that question. It's unclear.

[1535]

The Minister of Economic Development said in January that he

thought that maybe health authorities were allowed to run a deficit in British

Columbia. I want to ask the Minister of Health whether the Fraser

[ Page 7605 ]

Health Authority will be allowed to run a deficit. If not, when the budget

says there's a $65 million deficit, that has to be closed. When Mr. Anderson

says…. It wasn't in the 1990s he said it; it was April 19, 2007. Mr. Anderson

says that we're going to have to rein in our spending by $65 million. Those are

their figures.

I understand the overall budget got a lift this year. We see it in

the documents. We know the overall budget got a lift. What the Fraser Health

Authority is saying is that to meet that budget, they'll have to make $65

million in cuts. Here we are. It's our one chance every year to debate the

budget of the Ministry of Health. Quite reasonably, I'm asking, in the month of

May, what the minister is going to do.

What measures is he going to take and what measures are Fraser

Health going take to cut $65 million so that they don't run a deficit? Unless

he's going to tell me that things have changed and that the health authority

will be allowed to run a deficit this year, they're going to have to make $65

million in cuts. I just, quite reasonably, want to know what those will be.

Hon. G. Abbott: We expect every health authority to balance

their budget, and we expect every health authority to take appropriate and

reasonable measures to balance their budgets.

I have already noted to the member that there is a 7.3-percent

increase to the funding of the Fraser Health Authority. I have noted that the

increase year over year is $112 million to the authority, plus their access to

the $100 million health innovation fund. I have detailed all of the areas where

Fraser Health is going to see increased resources from the province.

I am entirely confident that the Fraser Health Authority will

balance their budget for '07-08, I am entirely confident that they will balance

their budget without compromising patient care in any way, and I am confident

that they will address any budgetary pressures that they have by looking at

non-clinical areas and ensuring that appropriate changes are made.

A. Dix: Okay. The minister, I guess, is saying that he

won't answer that question, in his own inimitable way.

Let me ask him another question. The executive director of the

Langley Memorial Hospital wrote on Friday, in response to concerns raised by

doctors at that hospital that the Minister of Health has…. I'll just remind him.

I'll mention them again to the Minister of Health so that he won't tell the

doctors that he hasn't heard of their complaints. The executive director said

that all Fraser Health hospitals are in a deficit position and need to reduce

their deficits.

Does the Minister of Health agree with that analysis? Does he

agree that every single hospital in the Fraser Health Authority is currently in

deficit? What that means is that they all have to make cuts to their budgets.

Does he agree with the analysis? Again, not mine, gosh darn it. I wouldn't want

to make that suggestion, because I don't know the answer. That's why I'm asking

the minister. Miss Heppell made that suggestion. She says that all Fraser Health

hospitals are in a deficit position. Can the minister confirm that information

today?

Hon. G. Abbott: The information that we have from Fraser

Health for '06-07 suggests that Fraser Health will conclude the year in a

balanced budget or perhaps a modest surplus position. We're looking forward to

seeing the completion of the audit to determine that.

In terms of the year ahead the member, again, is confusing

preliminary budget figures with what is going to be the actual experience of

Fraser Health. If the member is saying that there should be lots of money and

that there won't be any pressures, then he's wrong. There will be lots of

pressures during the year, but Fraser Health has been resourced with $112

million in incremental dollars, year over year, plus access to the health

innovation fund. They are working with a total budget of close to $2 billion.

[1540]

They will manage and, I'm sure, manage remarkably effectively the

pressures that they have.

Fraser Health is not the only organization in the province that

has pressures. There are plenty of pressures in the health care system, none of

which are going to go away. The pressures are going to continue. They're related

to the incidence of chronic disease, to demographics and to population growth.

That's why this government has stepped up with the largest-ever

budget in the history of British Columbia. We're working with a budget this year

that is over 50 percent larger than the budget of this member's former NDP

government in 2001 — over 50 percent larger. There is no area of public policy

that has been the subject of the kind of investment that health delivery has

been by this government.

A. Dix: Well, of course, hon. Chair, and people at home

will note this as well, the minister didn't answer the question. The question

was very specific. This comes from the person who's in charge of Langley

Memorial Hospital. They say that all Fraser Health hospitals are in deficit. My

question to the Minister of Health isn't asking about the global budget. It's to

ask him: is that true? Is Langley in deficit? Is Royal Columbian in deficit? Is

MSA in deficit? Is Burnaby in deficit? Are all the hospitals in deficit?

We could go through them all one by one, I say to the minister. I

think it's 14 of them. We could go through them all one by one and ask if each

of them is in deficit. This is the kind of information, I presume, going into

estimates, that the Minister of Health would be able to tell us.

He may wish to call Leanne Heppell, who asserts that all Fraser

Health hospitals are in a deficit position and need to reduce their deficits.

She asserts it, so he may wish to get a copy of that information from her. I'm

asking him a very simple question, because it reflects the challenges facing the

Fraser Health Authority.

The minister shouldn't worry. We're going to get to the other

ones. We're going to get to the other ones

[ Page 7606 ]

soon. There are many questions raised by Mr. Purchase's resignation, his

rejection of the government's budget process and his strong criticism of the

government's conduct with respect to the Vancouver Coastal Health Authority.

They're legitimate questions raised. I'm sure that the minister isn't surprised

to be getting them today.

The question is very simple. There's talk about this. There's talk

about service cuts, again, from the minister's own senior political appointees.

I'm asking him a very simple question about the Fraser Health hospitals. I'm

asking to see if he agrees with the statement that they're in deficit and that

they're all going to have to make cuts. Finally, what's the nature of those

cuts? What might he expect those cuts to be?

Hon. G. Abbott: I don't expect any cuts at all. What we are

seeing is an increase year over year of $112 million. There is a 7.3-percent

increase in the budget of Fraser Health year over year. That is not a cut. That

is a very substantial increase in the resources that are being extended from our

government to the Fraser Health Authority.

In terms of individual hospitals, we don't deal with individual

hospitals. We deal with the Fraser Health Authority as an entity. We do not deal

with the hospitals as independent legal entities or authorities. They are part

of one overall health authority, the Fraser Health Authority, as I've said.

The expectation is that for '06-07, the overall financial

situation of Fraser Health will be a balanced budget. We look forward to getting

finalization of that in the weeks ahead when the audit processes are completed.

In terms of the year ahead, right now the interim CEO is asking all of those

leaders in Fraser Health Authority to look at areas where they can develop

efficiencies and cost savings — and good on them. That's exactly what they

should be doing.

[1545]

Sometimes the NDP just say that the solution here is to spend

more. Yet curiously, if one looks back at their record in the 1990s, what one

saw was not only a remarkable lack of control over spending and deficits and so

on, but also remarkably poor management. We're not seeing that from the health

authorities.

I think what we'll be seeing is the health authorities stepping up

in a very capable and professional way and ensuring that they make the very best

use of the billions of dollars which are entrusted to them for health care

delivery.

A. Dix: Well, of course the minister loves to debate the

1990s, and I'd love to. I think we should take that show on the road sometime,

but for the moment we're talking about his budget for this year.

I have some questions about it. I just note with respect to health

care…. The minister, the Premier and the Premier's Conversation on Health spent,

I think, $7 million talking about the Conference Board report. The Conference

Board report naming B.C. number one in health care was based largely on data

from 2001 — largely reflecting the NDP's record in health care.

You go through the numbers, and that's what the Conference Board

will tell you — that B.C. was number one then. The figures since then haven't

been as good, but they're different figures, and 2001 tended to be the overall

health figures that came from that time. It's not me that walks around

celebrating the NDP's record in 2001 in health care; it's the Minister of

Health. But in this case I'd have to say that I agree with him when he

celebrates that record.

My question, coming back to the minister. He will recall, and this

is…. The minister says: "I don't have to answer. I don't know anything about

hospitals. When the executive director of the Langley Memorial Hospital says,

'Every hospital in the Fraser Health Authority is in deficit — every single

one,' I don't have to answer that."

He doesn't have to answer anything. That's pretty clear already in

estimates. But he knows and I know…. He will recall the decision of the Supreme

Court of British Columbia in 2003, which said that the minister "has not

delegated any of his duties," referring to the health authorities. "The minister

remains legally and politically responsible." That's why, when the vote is taken

in this House and we want to ask him questions about these issues, we think it's

a legitimate thing to do — to ask him questions about what's happening in the

budget of Fraser Health Authority. That's where these questions are coming from.

The minister doesn't want to answer where they're going to find

the $54 million, doesn't want to answer where every hospital in the Fraser

Health Authority would like to cut. I'd like to ask the minister…. The

anticipation is growing with respect to the acute care capacity initiative that

we asked for a couple of months ago. The minister's own chair of the board, Mr.

Barefoot, said that the acute care capacity initiative should be released to the

public so the public should know, could see the information.

That acute care capacity initiative has been years in the making.

I think it dates back four years in the making. In fact, the planning process

has been so long in terms of the acute care capacity initiative that it's

probably made some of the targets impossible to reach. I wanted to ask the

minister, because here we are debating the estimates of the Ministry of Health,

and gosh darn it, we'd like to have a little bit of information.

Will the minister today share with the people of British Columbia

and the people of Fraser Health Authority the report that he's received from the

Fraser Health Authority? This is a report that not just I would like to see

released, nor even the chair who quit because he didn't like what the minister

was doing, but the current chair who's said that this report should be released.

I'm asking the minister if he will release the acute care capacity initiative

report today.

Hon. G. Abbott: The member referenced the Conference Board

of Canada report, and I know the member tried to take some of the material in

there and make a case that things were good before 2001 but not afterward.

[1550]

In fact, any informed reading and analysis of that document would

show very clearly that there are far

[ Page 7607 ]

more compelling incremental improvements since 2001 than was the case before

2001. The member's assertion with respect to pre-2001 just simply does not stand

up.

In respect of the acute care capacity initiative, we received from

the Fraser Health Authority a draft planning document of acute care capacity a

couple of months ago now, approximately. That planning document is under review

in the Ministry of Health. I think that Fraser Health has done a lot of very

good work in respect of planning for acute care capacity, but it should be noted

that that was a draft report and that it needs to be understood in the context

of a broader lower mainland — i.e., Vancouver Coastal Health Authority, which

also has acute care needs.

I guess a final point is that acute care capacity is an important

thing, but it is one element in the kind of holistic delivery of health services

in the Fraser Health region and in the province generally, which I think in

future years will revolve more around primary care than it has in the past. I

personally believe that the answers to some of the demographic and chronic

disease challenges we are facing lie not in acute care capacity alone. That

certainly will be one element of it. The areas of primary care are particularly

important, and prevention is important as well.

A. Dix: Let me just…. I don't know. Will the minister give

some time commitment? I think it's reasonable for people — since the head of

Fraser Health is asking for the documents — to have a chance to see themselves

and to review the documents. It's hard, when one isn't given access to

information, to find out and to draw whatever conclusions need to be drawn.

The minister talks about other alternatives in terms of closing

the gap, as he says. Well, how does one judge the alternatives if the minister

is hoarding the information? What possible reason is there for the minister to

continue to hide this document after his own chair of the board said he should

release it? People would like to see it in the Fraser Health Authority.

What possible reason does the minister have today for not

providing this information to this House, which is voting his budget, and more

importantly, to the people who live in the areas covered by the Fraser Health

Authority?

Hon. G. Abbott: The member is describing the document

inappropriately as a report. It is a draft planning document, which is under

continuing consideration by the ministry.

A. Dix: If I'm to understand it, the minister, even though

Mr. Barefoot thinks we should have a chance to see the document, doesn't think

that the people of the Fraser Valley should have a right to see that document —

let me correct myself: to see that planning document — and to see what

conclusions are drawn in it?

Hon. G. Abbott: As I said earlier, this is a draft planning

document. It will be released in a timely and appropriate way when the review

processes around it are completed to the satisfaction of those who are

undertaking it.

A. Dix: The minister says it's a draft planning document,

which…. I guess the minister's message is: "Don't bother with the FOI there.

It's a draft planning document." Wasn't it, in fact, a draft planning document

in 2005? How long has this capacity initiative been going on? How many years?

Because clearly, if you're going to meet targets, then my presumption is that

they're targets in terms of needs by 2010 and then 2020. It's taking us out to

2020. We're already quite a ways along to 2010. When did they start this

process?

[1555]

Wasn't it a draft planning document in 2005? How can a 2005 draft

planning document still be a draft planning document in 2007?

Finally, I would guess that there isn't anything in this document

that is embarrassing to the government, but I think that it would be useful for

people in the Fraser Health Authority to have some idea what their needs will be

and what their health authority, which is supposed to report to them and respond

to them…. That's the purpose of regionalizing health authorities: to have the

accountability that comes with having the health authorities connect with the

community.

Can the minister tell us what possible reason beyond that that he

has for not providing us with basic information about what's going on in Fraser

Health?

Hon. G. Abbott: If the member has a question, he should ask

it. I'm glad to share with him all we know about the planning processes at

Fraser Health. If he wants to ask the question, I'd be delighted to respond.

What we know with certainty is that planning for future need began

the day that the Fraser Health Authority was completed. I think that would be in

January of 2002. Planning is an evolutionary process. It has continued each and

every day since January 2002, and it will continue as far as we can see into the

foreseeable future. There are always challenges, there are always changes, and

there is always new infrastructure that's being added. All of those things make

planning an evolutionary process, and this is part of it.

A. Dix: I thought I might just ask this question, then, in

terms of the making up of the $65 million deficit. We asked the Fraser Health

Authority for this information; now I want to ask the minister. The ministry

sees, in all of the health authorities, very significant increases in own-source

revenues. Can he tell us what those increases and own-source revenues at the

Fraser Health Authority and at the other health authorities…? What are those

revenues, and where do they come from? Do they come from fees, licences,

investments? What do they come from?

Can he give us a detailed breakdown around what those own-source

revenues are? Increasingly, the government is asking…. It's not, in the context

of the whole health care budget, a huge percentage, but it's an increasing

percentage of health care budgets to come

[ Page 7608 ]

from own-source revenue. So would the minister provide us with a detailed

breakdown of the budget expectations for own-source revenues in the Fraser

Health Authority and — what the heck — maybe in all of the other health

authorities as well?

Hon. G. Abbott: I wonder if I might ask the opposition

Health critic what document he is referencing in respect of own-source revenues.

We have an assembly here of literally thousands of pages of information. If the

member could advise us what document he is referencing in his comments….

A. Dix: What I might do is send the information across, and

perhaps the minister can bring it back to us later on. We asked the health

authorities to provide us with their own-source revenue projections, and the

minister will be delighted to know that they didn't break any rules of openness,

since every little bit of actual information in the document is severed. We got

empty sheets, which is great. So that's why we're asking the questions with

respect to own-source revenue.

I'll send the information across to the minister. You know, it is

wonderful stuff. It shows that the health authorities are taking seriously the

command of openness that comes from the minister with respect to information

available to the public and to those who have to vote the budget of the Ministry

of Health for this year.

Let me just ask the minister a question about unfunded beds. We'll

come back to this own-source revenue — it's a fascinating question — in a little

while, when I send the information to his staff. Mr. Purchase makes reference to

this, as does Mr. Barefoot. What they describe as unfunded beds — how many are

there today in the Fraser Health Authority?

[1600]

I'll help the minister out here. It was on January 25 that Mr.

Barefoot said they're running about 120 beds over budgeted levels. How many beds

is the Fraser Health Authority running over budgeted levels today?

Hon. G. Abbott: Again, just to note that the expectation

for the '06-07 budget year, which has just been completed, is that Fraser Health

will be showing a balanced budget position. Hence, one could not describe any

beds for Fraser Health as unfunded. Likewise, we do not fund the Fraser Health

Authority for per-bed funding; we fund them on a global basis. We fund them year

over year.

We are adding $112 million, a 7.3-percent increase in the budget,

year over year, for the new capacity we know is coming on in Abbotsford and

Surrey. There is a budgetary allocation made for that. So I'm having some

difficulty following the critic's line of reasoning here.

A. Dix: Let me assist the minister, because, hopefully, he

may feel the need to give that previous non-answer to his own officials in the

Fraser Health Authority. In his January 25, 2007, resignation letter, Keith

Purchase stated that acute care hospitals in the Fraser Health Authority are

functioning with over 120 non-budgeted beds on any given day and that there are

between 100 and 150 patients waiting in Fraser Health emergency rooms for a

vacant acute care bed.

Gordon Barefoot — who the minister installed after Mr. Purchase

and other board members resigned because of the minister's budget process — made

reference to 120 unfunded beds in the Fraser Health Authority. Recently

hospitals in the Fraser Health have told us the numbers of unfunded beds in the

region now must not exceed 60. So depending on the number of patients currently

waiting for funded beds, this cap will result in fewer beds in the Fraser Health

Authority.

This is straightforward. This is what the minister's own chair of

the board and former chair of the board have stated. They've stated that in fact

there are unfunded beds and that people in the Fraser Health Authority should

expect those unfunded beds to be reduced. The minister himself met with doctors

at Royal Columbian. They raised this very issue with him. I know they raised it

with me when I toured this area. We're not talking about….

If the minister has trouble following my line of questioning,

presumably he has read the letter from Mr. Purchase — in full, unedited — he has

read the comments, and he discusses these situations with Mr. Barefoot. So can

the minister tell this House how many unfunded beds there are presently in the

Fraser Health Authority? It's not me that came up with this idea of unfunded

beds; it's the people that the minister has put in the Fraser Health Authority

to answer these questions and to address these issues.

Hon. G. Abbott: Neither I nor any of the ministry officials

is aware of any unfunded beds in Fraser Health. The suggestion from Mr.

Purchase, in the context of the time and in the context of his views at the

time…. I guess one can construe them in a number of ways. But there are no

unfunded beds that we're aware of in Fraser Health. We fully expect that Fraser

Health is going to report a balanced budget for '06-07.

[1605]

If the member is saying that the answer to every issue in health

care is simply to add more acute care capacity, as some people seem to suggest,

I disagree. I think that in fact what we are seeing from the health authorities,

which are attempting to provide additional capacity as they have through the

addition of incremental residential care and assisted living units, a very

important part of it…. Primary care is a very important part of alternatives to

heavier acute care bed usage.

There is a whole range of initiatives, strategies that are

undertaken by health authorities to deal with those things. To take any

particular element in the mix…. Acute care beds are important. On occasion it's

important to add to the quantum of acute care beds. But it is not the only

answer to the chronic disease and demographic pressures which are faced by the

system.

A. Dix: When Mr. Barefoot asserted that there are 120

unfunded beds there, did staff of the Ministry of

[ Page 7609 ]

Health — because that's a pretty significant assertion from a person who the

minister presumably has confidence in — say this to him? "What are you talking

about? We're sitting here in Victoria. The minister is sitting here in Victoria,

and he states that you're wrong.

"These beds that you say are unfunded, Mr. Purchase; these beds

that you say are unfunded, Mr. Barefoot; the beds that doctors say are unfunded

and will have to be shut down…. You're wrong. You're wrong. You may be closer,

and you may know what the beds are. You may be closer to home, as it were, but

you're wrong."

Has the minister clearly disabused Mr. Barefoot? The minister

keeps talking about spending more money and everything else. These are

assertions made by the minister's own appointees. So I would like to ask whether

the minister has…. These were, shall we say, reported statements. These weren't

hidden. In fact, they're in the same

article — I'll help the minister — where

Mr. Barefoot asks the minister to release the acute care capacity initiative,

which he continues to refuse to do.

I want to ask: has the Ministry of Health asked anyone at Fraser

Health what they mean when they talk about 120 unfunded beds?

Hon. G. Abbott: I know Mr. Barefoot very well. I've had the

occasion to discuss important matters around the provision of health care with

him on a number of occasions. I think he is doing a very, very fine job in a

very difficult position at Fraser Health.

I have a world of respect for Mr. Barefoot. I think he is doing an

outstanding job, and I know he will continue to do that. I'm not going to

respond to every little quote that the opposition Health critic wants to take

out of context.

I think Mr. Barefoot is doing a great job. He'll continue to do a

great job, no doubt, for the people of Fraser Health. I have absolute, full

confidence in him to meet the needs of Fraser Health and to meet them in a way

that will ensure that — whether it's more residential care and assisted living

or whether it's more surgeries than ever before — in fact, we continue to see

continuous improvement in the delivery of health care in Fraser Health.

The member asked earlier about own-source revenues. Own-source

revenues, generally…. We're talking about things like fees, charges to

non-residents of the province, residential care fees, interest and — I presume

in some cases — investments as well.

Own-source revenues for the Fraser Health Authority are $86.48

million; Interior Health, $97.88 million; Northern Health Authority, $45.37

million; Vancouver Coastal Health Authority, $144.52 million; Vancouver Island

Health Authority, $110 million; Provincial Health Services Authority, $127.2

million, for a total of $661.14 million.

[1610]

A. Dix: Will the minister share a detailed breakdown of

what those own-source revenues are?

Hon. G. Abbott: We don't have that detailed breakdown with

us. We'd be glad to provide it to the member. We'll try to pull it up. We

understand that it is available — I think in most instances, at least — on line

in the detailed financial statements that would be available there.

A. Dix: Having looked on line — and you know, one can

always be wrong — they do provide the information that the minister has

provided. But as far as I know and as far as we can find, they don't provide the

detailed information we're seeking. You know — how much is fees? How much is

this? How much is that?

I'd really appreciate the minister and staff coming back with that

information. I'd really appreciate that. It would be very useful in

understanding what the health authorities are doing, because the minister will

agree that those own-source revenues have been increasing quite significantly

over time. So we're interested to know: what is the source of the own-source

revenue?

I want to turn to the Vancouver Coastal Health Authority for a

moment and ask the minister about, first of all…. He talked about the previous

fiscal year in Fraser Health. Can the minister tell the House whether the

Vancouver Coastal Health Authority ended the fiscal year 2006-2007 in a deficit

position and, if they did, how he explains that in the context of the rule that

says that you can't run a deficit?

Hon. G. Abbott: As I noted in response to an earlier

question, the detailed audit of financial statements for all of the health

authorities is still being completed, so we do not have a final accounting for

Vancouver Coastal Health for fiscal '06-07.

We do expect that that there will be a deficit. We know that the

chair and the board and senior administration have been working tirelessly since

the change of board chairs and the appointment of Mr. David Thompson to the

position of chair. Everyone has been working to mitigate that deficit, and I

know that they are making some progress towards the elimination of the deficit.

They're not there yet, but I think we're seeing a lot of constructive steps in

that direction.

[1615]

A. Dix: Perhaps the minister can tell us when the

government learned…. The minister will know — it's in the fiscal plan — that

there was an expected deficit, at that time, of about $40 million, which I

assume was the best estimate at the time in terms of the size of the deficit for

last year in the Vancouver Coastal Health Authority. The projected deficit for

2007-2008 in the Vancouver Coastal Health Authority is $54 million.

If the minister is saying that there'll be a deficit in 2006-2007,

how will the Vancouver Coastal Health Authority be expected to deal with that

situation specifically? Will it be like they're starting the year $38 million

down? This was the subject of some interest at the time.

The minister will remember…. Well, perhaps he won't remember,

because I think that was probably the most relaxing week of his year. But others

answered for the government. At the time, January 16, the Minister of Economic

Development — who was the acting

[ Page 7610 ]

Minister of Health — responded to the situation by first stating, to

questions that had been raised by the Leader of the Opposition around cuts to

surgeries and patient care, that Vancouver Coastal Health Authority will be

allowed to carry the deficit.

Later the acting Minister of Health said that he misinterpreted a

briefing and that Vancouver Coastal Health Authority was not actually off the

hook. Since Vancouver Coastal Health Authority — it would appear from what the

minister said — actually did run a deficit, the confusion grows again. I wanted

to ask the minister about which version of what the acting Minister of Health

said on January 16 and January 17 was true and whether the minister is satisfied

that the steps were taken that he expected to be taken to close that deficit in

the 2006-2007 year. What is the impact of that deficit on this fiscal year?

Hon. G. Abbott: Just so we understand, unlike some previous

governments in British Columbia — i.e., the one that was in office in the 1990s

— we are not going to be contemplating a situation where health authorities

every year brought in deficit budget after deficit budget and consistently

failed to meet their financial objectives. That is not the expectation of our

government in respect of health authorities.

We learned of