Newfoundland and Labrador Hansard — Statements by Ministers — 12 December 2001 (44th General Assembly, 3rd Session, Vol. XLIV No. 47)
2001-12-12
Newfoundland and Labrador — Debates (Hansard)
December 12, 2001 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY
PROCEEDINGS Vol. XLIV No. 47
The House met at 2:00 p.m.
MR. SPEAKER (Snow): Order, please!
Before we begin our routine proceedings, the Chair would like to welcome to
the Speaker's gallery today, and to the House of Assembly, Gian Lorenzo
Cornado, Consul General of Italy, Guido Del Rizzo, Honourary Consul of Italy for
Newfoundland and Labrador, and Sir Andrew Burns, High Commissioner of Britain.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
Statements by Members
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Humber East.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. MERCER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I would like to bring members' attention to an innovative program of the
Humber Literacy Council that helps to promote reading in young children.
The program, known as Books for Babies, was started in Corner Brook in
January, 1994, and has grown to include newborn to age four children in forty
communities around the Province.
The program involves volunteers visiting new mothers and their babies in
hospital and offering them a reading package; a package that includes a children's
book, brochures on reading, literacy related materials, information about the
Books for Babies Program and resource information for new parents. The program
also offers a four-year, follow-up program in which children receive a free book
each year until they begin school.
The program's purpose is to help children and their families develop a love
of language, literature and learning. The program recognizes the role of parents
as the primary educators of their children, and that attitudes toward reading
and writing are formed at home during the preschool years.
Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this House to join with me in recognizing
the important work being done by the Humber Literacy Council through the Books
for Babies program.
Thank you.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for The Straits & White Bay North.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I rise today to extend birthday greetings to a very special
lady. Aunt Philomena O'Brien of L'Anse-au-Loup, Labrador, celebrates her 91 st
birthday today. Now, Mr. Speaker, while I have called her Aunt Philomena all my
life, she is of no relation to me but she is a very close family friend. When we
lived in L'Anse-au-Loup in the late 1960s and early 1970s, she was one of my
babysitters; and a fine job she did.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: I guess I asked for that one.
Mr. Speaker, I have very fond memories of Aunt Philomena and on many
occasions while walking home from school, particularly on cold winter days, Aunt
Philomena would take me inside her house for bakeapple pie and a glass of
something that we do not see much of now: powdered milk.
Aunt Philomena was the mother of eleven children, nine of whom are surviving.
She has fifty grandchildren, sixty-three great-grandchildren and two great-great
grandchildren. With a family of that size, it is easy to see how her son, MP
Lawrence O'Brien, gets elected.
Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this House to join with me in extending
birthday wishes to this special lady, and I wish Aunt Philomena O'Brien many
happy returns of the day, continued happiness and health.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Conception Bay East & Bell
Island.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WALSH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise to congratulate the East Coast Trails Association on the official
opening earlier this year of the East Coast Trail, a world-class hiking trail.
The official opening of the trail was marked by a large event attended by
approximately 3,500 people who were entertained by local musicians and welcomed
two groups of hikers who had set out from the north and the south ends of the
trail to Bay Bulls, at the conclusion of what they called their "Wonderful
Grand Hike."
The East Coast Trail, which runs from Fort Amherst on the south side of St.
John's to the Town of Cappahayden on the southern shore, was the brain child
of Peter Gard of Petty Harbour, who was the association's first president,
along with a group of committed volunteers who banded together to form the East
Coast Trails Association in 1994.
When it is completed, the East Coast Trail will stretch for 520 kilometers
and will be a great attraction to tourists who wish to experience the natural
beauty of our Province's east coast and thus benefit the economy of that
region.
Mr. Speaker, the effort put forth by the East Coast Trails Association in
this endeavor has been tremendous and I urge all Members of the House of
Assembly to join with me in congratulating them on the opening of the East Coast
Trail, and wish them every success for their future endeavors.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.
MR. MANNING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
As most members of the House are aware, this is the International Year of the
Volunteer. It is an important time for us to say thank you to the many
volunteers throughout our Province who give so freely of their time and
commitment to make their communities and their areas a better place to live.
I would like to take the opportunity to thank the many volunteers in the
District of Placentia & St. Mary's, Mr. Speaker. They make up
organizations such as town councils, local service district associations, fire
departments, recreational, fisheries, and parish communities, and spend endless
hours giving to their community and giving to their fellow people in their
community.
Last Friday night I had the opportunity to attend the Volunteer Night at
Freshwater Community Centre, where the Freshwater Community Centre took all of
the volunteers in the area and gave them an opportunity to celebrate another
year of giving to their community and their commitment that they so freely give
of their time. That night they awarded, Mr. Dan Culleton with the Volunteer of
the Year Award for his many hours of service to his community and to his fellow
man.
I would just like to take the opportunity today, Mr. Speaker, to say thank
you to all the volunteers in Placentia & St. Mary's District but indeed in
Newfoundland and Labrador because in these tough economic times that we have we
still look back to our volunteers to ensure that our communities are kept alive
and the many hours that are given so that we have a better place to live.
Thank you.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Burin-Placentia West.
MS M. HODDER: Mr. Speaker, I rise in this House today to pay tribute to
Mr. George Marcello of Toronto, Ontario, for his Canada 769 Day Walk to raise
money and awareness about the importance of organ and tissue donations. Mr.
Marcello began his walk in Toronto on July 20, 2000, and plans to complete it on
July 27, 2002. Earlier this year, he visited this Province including the Burin
Peninsula.
In his travels, Mr. Marcello has visited more than 250 communities, held an
equal number of press conferences and has received media attention across
Canada. He has provided education and awareness to schools, churches and various
other service and community groups.
His efforts have raised the awareness of many in the area of organ and tissue
donations and have motivated many more to become involved through volunteering,
contributing and by signing organ donor cards.
Mr. Speaker, I ask all Members of the House of Assembly of Newfoundland and
Labrador to join me in congratulating Mr. Martello on his efforts to date and to
wish him success with this very important cause.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SWEENEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, sixty-six years ago today the sun was shining in Musgrave
Harbour. It was a lovely day with just a little bit of snow on the ground. The
air was still and clear. Then the silence that day was broken with the ringing
of bells and the firing of guns. The cause of this noise was a wedding. The
wedding of Roland and Ina Abbott.
Also, I would like to bring to the attention of the House the 60 th
Wedding Anniversary of Claude and Susanne Dunne from the Minister of Education's
district. They have seven children, sixteen grandchildren and ten
great-grandchildren. Someone who spoke to them recently said they remember the
day they were married as if it were yesterday.
Marriage and family are said to be the bedrock on which our society sits.
When two people come together and stay together, contributing to the community
the way these people have, they deserve to be recognized by the members of this
House of Assembly.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
Statements by Ministers
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Labrador & Aboriginal Affairs.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. McLEAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to inform the House and the people of the Province about the
meeting of Federal/Provincial/Territorial Ministers responsible for Aboriginal
Affairs and also the leaders of the five national Aboriginal organizations held
in Ottawa on December 6 and 7.
At the conclusion of this conference, ministers and leaders directed
officials to: establish a Working Group on the National Aboriginal Youth
Strategy; to explore measures to increase the participation of Aboriginal women
in the economy; and implement the recommendations of Strengthening Aboriginal
Participation in the Economy Report; and also to plan for a national business
summit for government, Aboriginal and private sector representatives aimed at
strengthening Aboriginal participation in the economy.
Mr. Speaker, leaders and ministers reaffirmed the importance of continued
dialogue between Aboriginal organizations and government to further improve the
quality of life of Aboriginal peoples. We agreed to reconvene in May or June,
2002, to pursue our common objectives.
This meeting will take place in Iqaluit in the new territory of Nunavut.
The issues discussed at this conference mainly related to community building,
which was also the underlining theme of the Northern Ministers Development
Conference that I attended in La Ronge, Saskatchewan in late September. Clearly,
educated, healthy, productive communities are better able to achieve their
economic development goals.
Aboriginal participation in the economy, Mr. Speaker, is in the national
interest. It makes good financial sense and provides long-term value to the
Canadian economy. Governments, Aboriginal people and the private sector must all
work together to achieve these goals.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's East.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I say to the hon minister that these are, indeed, vitally important meetings.
It is always essential that we, in this Province, be at the Table to represent
the interests of our Aboriginal communities, and our rich Aboriginal cultures in
both Newfoundland and, of course, in Labrador.
I would like to make a specific reference to the point that was made by the
hon. minister with respect to participation, and how it is best done for the
Canadian economy. I say, as well, Mr. Speaker, that when government joins with
both the private sector and the Aboriginal communities themselves, in investing
in Aboriginal communities, that is when we see what is best for our Aboriginal
peoples and the communities themselves.
Mr. Speaker, in closing, we look forward to the reconvening of this meeting
in the New Year, in Iqaluit, and we look forward to hearing from those present
as to how these particular objectives have been met.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The issues raised at these meetings are quite important in allowing
Aboriginal people to fully participate in the economy. We have seen good
examples in this Province, both in Labrador and in Conne River of business
ventures carried out, planned by and owned by Aboriginal people, and we will see
more of that as Voisey's Bay develops.
As far as Youth Strategy goes, Mr. Speaker, I am delighted to report, in case
anyone missed it, that there was actually money in the federal budget for an
Aboriginal Youth Strategy, and, hopefully, Aboriginal young people in this
Province will be able to benefit from that as well.
Oral Questions
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My questions are for the Premier. Premier, yesterday you told the people of
this Province that we are not expecting any reductions or cuts in health care,
and that there is no money being wasted in the health care system. In light of
your comments, how do you explain that your government is spending $500,000 on a
consulting group to find areas where health services can be either cut or
eliminated to the tune of $6.6 million?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Unfortunately, the Leader of the Opposition seems to have misunderstood what
is occurring. In fact, Mr. Speaker, what we have done in Newfoundland and
Labrador this year is add $50 million to the operating budgets of the health
care institutional boards, one of which, and the biggest of which, is here in
St. John's, the Health Care Corporation of St. John's.
What we are doing, with their consent and concurrence because they want to
find out as well whether or not there are any ways they can spend the additional
money that we have given them better, because they are indicating again that
there are some unmet needs, that they are short a little bit of money, even
though we increased their particular budget by several millions of dollars - no
decreases in funding - we are trying to manage the size of the increase and the
growth, Mr. Speaker. That is what this government is about, with the cooperation
and consent of the Board of Directors of the Health Care Corporation of St. John's.
The other boards are largely in balance at this point in time or very close to
it, and can see their way to do it either this year or next year.
Now, that particular group is interested to see how they might be able to
better spend the extra money that they have been given this year, so we can
ascertain how much extra we might have to give them next year, Mr. Speaker,
because we have been increasing the funding, not decreasing or cutting health
care funding.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition, supplementary.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Premier, your exact words yesterday were: We are not expecting any cutbacks
at all.
Can you explain how the layoff of forty-five people in the health care system
does not constitute a cutback, because I can't understand that?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
From time to time, Mr. Speaker, there are rearrangements and reordering of
services in health care, just like there are in any other areas. To their
credit, Mr. Speaker, what the board and the senior management at the Health Care
Corporation of St. John's are trying to find a way to do, is to try to find
the most efficient and effective way to spend the increased funding that they
have been given again this year, just like last year and the year before.
Mr. Speaker, I have also made some other statements that maybe the Leader of
the Opposition would like to quote. Maybe he does not agree with them, but they
are factual. I have said on many occasions, Mr. Speaker, unlike the position of
the Opposition, because in their Blue Book of a couple of years ago they said
they would abolish these boards, they would wipe them off the map and they would
do it all themselves.
I have always said this: We do not pretend to run the health care system as
politicians and as ministers. We fund it to the greatest level we possibly can.
We trust and have confidence in the boards and the senior management to run it
the very best way they can and that is what they are trying to do.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Premier, in your own words, now they are not cutbacks they are
rearrangements. Is the fact that next year you are going to cut out and close
one of the operating rooms at the Janeway during the summer months, the most
dangerous period of the year, is that a rearrangement or is that, in fact, a
cutback?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER GRIMES: Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition might know, and
then again maybe he does not know, I know he is still trying to learn his job.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
PREMIER GRIMES: Mr. Speaker, the fact of the matter is this -
MR. E. BYRNE: (Inaudible) Christmas, you are not going to get in your
stocking.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Premier.
PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
As I have indicated, the Leader of the Opposition is trying his best to learn
his new role as best he can at this point in time. If he checked with one of his
two or three current health critics, or his former, former health critic, now
the critic for finance - who was a very good health critic by the way, one of
the best the Province has ever seen, in my opinion -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER GRIMES: - he would know, if he bothered to check with anybody in
his caucus, because I hear he does not check with anybody in his caucus, then he
would find out this: That there are normal closures of certain wards and wings
in hospitals all over Newfoundland and Labrador every year during the summer to
provide for vacation, during the Christmas period, which is coming up soon, to
provide for vacation and so on. It is a normal administrative practice. If he
wants to try to suggest something, as he seems to be doing today -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. the Premier now to conclude his answer quickly.
PREMIER GRIMES: Yes, Mr. Speaker.
If he wants to suggest, as he is trying to do today, that a normal
administrative arrangement to close out some part of an operation for a period
of time to allow the nurses, the technicians and others to have their vacation
is a problem, then maybe he should try to run the system by himself instead of
trusting to the officials and administrators to do it.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I would suggest to the Premier that it is not a normal closure to close a
child's operating room in the summertime when they are on vacation and they
are most prone to injury. That is not a normal closure, Premier. The other point
I would like to make, Premier, is that all hon. members here are concerned about
health care. We are all critics in some form or another, so we make no
apologizes for that.
In line with your normal closures, can you tell me if it is a normal closure
that you are going -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I just want to remind hon. members, again, about addressing the Chair when
putting questions or in any debate in the House, questions ought to be directed
to the Chair in the third person.
The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, in line with normal closures, would the Premier tell me if there
are going to be no further cutbacks or reductions in services why it is proposed
that the new Roddickton hospital will close from midnight until 8 o'clock the
following morning? Is that a normal cutback?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I expect after the answer that I will give that the Leader of the Opposition
might jump up and say now he is blaming it on the administrators out in the
system. Let me tell you and the members of the House, Mr. Speaker, and everybody
in Newfoundland and Labrador, we do not run the day-to-day operations of the
health care system.
We fund, Mr. Speaker, the operations to the greatest extent that we possibly
can at the requests of the health care boards and the requests that we get every
year. We do recognize that we leave some unmet needs, we have said that everyday
and I understood the Opposition was going to help us try to get some more money
minds on that as well. In fact, we do not direct or order what the operations
are in any facility whether it be in Roddickton, whether it be the Janeway.
Those decisions are made by health care professionals living within their means
to the best they can and always, Mr. Speaker, to their credit, always to their
credit in my knowledge and my experience -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. Premier now to conclude his answer.
PREMIER GRIMES: Mr. Speaker, having been a Health Minister previously,
always, in my experience, they try to make the decisions that will have the
least possible adverse impact on any of the people they are trying to serve.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Where does the buck stop, Premier? You are not responsible, the Minister of
Health is not responsible. The school boards are the ones that are responsible,
the federal government is responsible. The Minister of Justice suggested that
the CEO of the Western Health Corporation was irresponsible. Where does the buck
stop? How does the public find out who is answering the questions here?
Mr. Speaker, I would ask the Premier: Yesterday he indicated to this House
that there was a dialysis machine in operation in St. Anthony. That was a
dialysis machine that, I understand, was promised while he was Minister of
Health. If there are no cutbacks, why has that dialysis machine in St. Anthony
been deferred indefinitely?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, as predicted, and the Leader of the Opposition is becoming
somewhat predictable, I did indicate that because I told the truth about who is
actually responsible and who we trust to make these decisions, that he would now
say, well, you do not take responsibility for anything.
We take responsibility for everything, Mr. Speaker, which is why we are
answering the questions, gladly answering the questions, here in the
Legislature. We use the opportunity as well to make sure the people understand
how the system really works.
We do know that it was part of the election in 1999 where the Opposition
Conservatives did say: If you elect us, we will abolish all of the health care
boards and make all of the decisions right here in St. John's by ourselves.
Mr. Speaker, the people did not vote for that. We believe in and trust and we
value the boards and the administrative professionals that are there.
Mr. Speaker, I can tell you with respect to the dialysis: the board itself -
the information I have - in Grenfell has indicated that the funding is still
available. They know that it is. We granted the funding. We do not run the
system. Let me say it again, Mr. Speaker, we fund the system.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. the Premier now to conclude his answer.
PREMIER GRIMES: Yes, Mr. Speaker.
They have determined in their own research that there aren't enough
patients in the area needing access to this service today to warrant instituting
it right away, but they have the money and they will institute it when they are
ready.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I would ask the Premier a very direct question: Can the people
of this Province expect further cutbacks in health care services in the future?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Now I might get to explaining exactly what I did say to the media yesterday.
They used the language of cutbacks and so on, as the Leader of the Opposition
does. I indicated quite clearly that what this government is doing, we are not
in the business of cutbacks. We are in the business of managing growth, managing
expansion, trying to meet the increased needs and demands of Newfoundlanders and
Labradorians, and unfortunately, new year most likely, just like this year, we
probably will not be able to meet 100 per cent of the needs and 100 per cent of
the demands. I guarantee you, nine chances out of ten, and we will find it all
out in the budget which we will debate here in March, it is almost impossible to
run a health care system in Newfoundland and Labrador without spending more
money again next year than we have this year.
You can probably expect, I do not know what the numbers will be, but we will
be dedicating more of the resources of Newfoundland and Labrador to health care
services. There will still be some unmet needs, and the Leader of the Opposition
will jump up at the time, even though we will put more resources in, and say
that we have cut back the health care system. We will provide more funding and
the professionals in heath care will try to maximize -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. the Premier now to conclude his answer.
PREMIER GRIMES: - the service delivery with that extra money, Mr.
Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Ferryland.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My questions today are for the Minister of Finance.
Government is in the process of changing the Public Service Pension Plan from
a government controlled plan to a giant trusteeship. There are currently over
10,000 pensioners now receiving a pension under this plan. I want to ask the
minister, Mr. Speaker, will those retired pensioners have a say in the planning
of the trusteeship and have representation on the board of trustees when it is
up and running in just over a year's time?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS J.M. AYLWARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I think I answered that question yesterday when we were actually debating
changes to our Public Service Pensions Plan and our Uniformed Services Pension
Plan. I understand there are representatives in the gallery today. I, as well as
the Premier, have had meetings with the representatives of the Pensioners'
Association, and very good discussions, as far as I am concerned, about the
status of where we are right now.
You know, Mr. Speaker, that this Province recently, through collective
bargaining, moved towards a new direction of joint management of our Public
Service Pensions Plan, and, as members and people listening know, it was
something that was negotiated as part of a collective agreement.
Now, during those negotiations, the views and representations of the public
service pensioners, who we saw many days out in the gallery demonstrating, were
brought forward to the table by members of NAPE particularly, and CUPE as well
but particularly NAPE - many of them are NAPE members - and their views were to
move in this direction and to make their representations particularly around an
increase in pay. What we have said to them clearly, face to face, and they can
see me today as I am saying this, it has not changed.
Our view is, right now it has been made very clear to us that the unions
currently are not supporting them having a position at the table. What we have
done is that, in an effort to make sure, because this was bargained in
collective bargaining, that we will go - and we have gone, and I have mentioned
to members who represent -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. minister to now conclude her answer.
MS J.M. AYLWARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I think it is important to just finish this, if I may.
- that we have gone, as I have mentioned to the Pensioners' Association, to
Justice to make sure that when we put this committee in place, that because we
have done this through collective bargaining, that we are able to look at
broadening the membership; because the unions have made it quite clear they are
not supportive of having the Pensioners' Association sit at that table.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. minister now to take her seat.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Ferryland.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SULLIVAN: Mr. Speaker, the Public Service Pensions Plan has assets of
about $1.5 billion, of which a significant portion of that was paid by retired
pensioners; and, of course, some current people are contributing now.
In the vicinity - the minister should have the exact figure - but in the
vicinity of 25 per cent of those people who are pensioners today were never
represented, or not represented by any union and there is a similar number of
people in the public service today contributing who are not represented by any
union.
I want to ask the minister: Should they have a direct input, a direct voice,
in how their future income is managed, and who will speak for these people?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS J.M. AYLWARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
As I said, the Pensioners' Association's views and wishes were brought to
the collective bargaining table by, particularly, NAPE. They brought forward
their views and representations. We have met with them, and one of the things we
have suggested to them is that they go back to the union that brought their
issues to the table on their behalf and seek concurrence or the view that they
would support having a representation from their group at the table. We have not
said we would not do that, Mr. Speaker. What we have said is that we are going
through the proper procedures. We are going to make sure that we are not
violating any of the components of the collective agreement. Frankly, we have
not, in any way, indicated that we are not supportive of having a voice. If the
people of the Province are familiar with it, they have always had representation
in our Public Service Investment Committee, which currently sits today, and in
fact, had a meeting this morning. They are representative.
What we are saying is that the unions are not supportive of them sitting at
the table. These new changes, for the first time ever, were bargained through
collective bargaining, and we want to make sure if we do that, we are doing it
within the auspices of what is legal and right and just as we begin a new
committee.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Ferryland.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The minister has indicated that she has spoken to Justice Department
officials. I want to ask the minister: If she didn't -
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. SULLIVAN: It has been discussed in the Justice Department. Well, if
she didn't say it, I will ask her a question now. Has the minister sought a
legal opinion on whether it is legal to exclude retired pensioners from having a
direct voice in their own investments to which they have contributed?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS J.M. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker, I think it is very important and make it
clear that this government is not trying to do anything to exclude anyone. What
we are doing - and I did not say I spoke with Justice officials. I said we have
asked Justice for an opinion, because for the first time ever, we have
negotiated something in the realm of collective bargaining. We have asked for a
position on this. We have made it quite clear to the pensioners, but I want to
make it quite clear, Mr. Speaker, to the people of the Province, there is no
intent, on our behalf as a government, to exclude anyone from this process.
These other pensioners outside of the collective bargaining agents have made
significant contributions; and there are managers. There are many groups that
have vested interests.
Our view is that - and we take pride in the fact that we going to do what is
right as we start a brand new approach to collectively joint managing our public
service pension. Mr. Speaker, we will do what is right, but we are following the
process. I make no apologies to that, and I have been very open and honest with
the pensioners in the gallery.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. the minister now to conclude her answer.
MS J.M. AYLWARD: Yes, Mr. Speaker.
I have met with them as recently as a couple of weeks ago, and we will keep
them fully informed. In fact, I have met with one of my own officials - I will
admit to that - not long ago, earlier this week, and asked what the status of
that opinion was and if we could expect it soon so that we could get this
process moving.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for The Straits & White Bay North.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, the Report of The Special Panel on Corporate Concentration in
Newfoundland and Labrador Fishing Industry looked at the proposed acquisition of
Clearwater Fine Foods by Fishery Products International. In so doing, pointed
out that once the deal is final, Mr. Risley will hold 14 per cent of the voting
shares, 100 per cent of FPIs nonvoting preferred shares and 100 per cent of its
nonvoting common shares.
Mr. Speaker, is the minister concerned that under this acquisition one person
will have circumvented the 15 per cent restriction on ownership in the FPI
legislation, will own 60 per cent of the company and will become its new CEO?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
As the hon. member opposite knows, that deal has not been completed yet, and
before it is completed it has to go through the Toronto Stock Exchange, it is
has to go through the Ontario Securities Commission, and it also has to go
through the Competition Bureau of Canada, and it has to have an independent
evaluation. We have been following that very carefully. With regard to the
actual shares, even if Mr. Risley owns 50 per cent, or 51 per cent of the actual
shares in the company he still only controls 14 per cent or 15 per cent of the
voting shares, and those are the shares that count when you operate a company.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for The Straits &
White Bay North.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, it is clear that this deal, if it goes through,
will contravene provincial legislation. The question to the Minister of
Fisheries and Aquaculture is: Is he planning to turn a blind eye to that
legislation, or is he planning to change the legislation as it relates to the 15
per cent ownership restriction on FPI?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Contrary to what the member opposite said, we are not turning a blind eye to
the process. We are following it very carefully.
With regard to the legislation, the legal advice from our own Department of
Justice, along with an independent advice from a law firm in Ontario, I think
the name is Stikeman Elliott, both have given us the opinion that it is not in
contravention to the legislation currently on the books.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the hon. the Member for The Straits
& White Bay North.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
In previous years the management of FPI have, by this time of the year,
informed the workers, the union and the communities that they operate in of
their plans for the coming year. To my knowledge, this has not happened thus far
this year. Does the minister have any information on FPI's plans for the 2002
season, especially as it relates to expected employment levels in their plants?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. REID: Mr. Speaker, when the new board of FPI was elected back last
spring we were given the commitment by that board - nine members of which are
very prominent Newfoundlanders and Labradorians - that there would be no plant
closures of the plants that FPI currently hold. I understand, in having a
discussion with some of the board members last week, that the company intends to
spend many millions of dollars on the existing plants on the Burin Peninsula in
the next year or two.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My question is for the Minister of Health and Community Services.
Last fall I asked the Minister of Health, who is now Premier, about the lack
of assistance for high cost drugs like Betaseron for people with Multiple
Sclerosis, for people who do not qualify under the low income programs of
Newfoundland and Labrador Prescription Drug Program. He said at that time that
the department was reviewing policies in other jurisdictions to see if this
Province could implement a cost-sharing program here.
I ask the minister what the results of that review were and when can the
hard-working people of this Province expect not to have to reduce themselves and
their families to poverty, not to spend all of the money that they have saved
for retirement, not to spend their children's education fund? When can they
expect some help from this government with their diseases and their treatments?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS BETTNEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, at the present time the coverage that we provide under the
Newfoundland and Labrador Drug Prescription Program for MS is the same as it is
for any other drug, as the member understands. Of course, the issue here is
whether we are in a position to be able to provide universal drug coverage to
the people of this Province regardless of whether they are able to pay
themselves or not. At the present time we spend $78 million - I believe is the
sum - on the prescription drug program in this Province. It is a huge cost
factor in our system. At the present time, unfortunately, we are unable to
expand our current drug program to apply to anyone regardless of needs. We are
trying to be fair. We are trying to be equitable in providing access to
prescription drug coverage to citizens who do not have the means to be able to
provide it and that is determined through our Department of Human Resources and
Employment.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Labrador West.
MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I say to the minister it is not a matter if the Province will
pay because the Province will, it is a matter of what individual families have
to do to themselves before the Province will. I ask the minister, again, we talk
about the economic growth that is taking place in this Province, other provinces
are providing on a sliding scale basis assistance to their citizens -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member is on a supplementary, I ask him to get to his question.
MR. COLLINS: - when can the people of this Province expect the same
treatment?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS BETTNEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Our mandate, which we are trying to meet as best we can within our fiscal
framework and within our ability to pay, is to provide pharmaceutical therapies
for low income people in this Province. That is determined based on a financial
assessment that is done by the Department of Human Resources and Employment, if
people's financial resources exceed that threshold then they are required to
provide for their own prescription drug costs. If they have other coverage
through private insurance they are required to utilize that.
As I say, Mr. Speaker, it would be very nice if we could have universal drug
coverage so that everyone in this Province could access prescription drugs at no
cost but we are not there.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. minister now to conclude her answer quickly.
MS BETTNEY: We have a very, very significant cost constraint. This is a
huge cost driver in our system at $78 million, and increasing.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's South.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. T. OSBORNE: Mr. Speaker, during the public consultation process on
the new environment acts presently before the House, there were some thirty
submissions made. Last week I contacted the Department of Environment, requested
a copy of those submissions, was told that I could have them, asked how I wanted
them delivered, and later that day I got a call saying that the request was
turned down.
Mr. Speaker, since these documents were presented as part of a public forum,
I ask the Minister of Environment if he will today release the gag order on
these documents and provide them so that they can take part of the legislative
process in this House of Assembly?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. RALPH WISEMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I understand the frenzy that the Member for St. John's South is in. This
legislation and the consultation that he has been talking about happened some
three months ago. I have sitting here since November 20 waiting for the hon.
member to begin the legislation. In courtesy, Mr. Speaker, we have been waiting
for them. Three months, and today he rises in the House and wants to know what
the general public had said. I want to say, Mr. Speaker, not one call, not one
letter from the members opposite concerning the two pieces of legislation that
is in this House.
Getting to your question, I will undertake to take a look at what the problem
is, if there is one.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
Question Period has ended.
MR. E. BYRNE: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Opposition House Leader, on a point of order.
MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you.
The Minister of Environment has suggested that we have not even begun debate
hardly on the bill that protects environment. I would like to inform him, that
if he wants the bill called talk to the Government House Leader because it is
your responsibility to call legislation, not ours.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
There is no point of order.
Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury
Board.
MS J.M. AYLWARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I would like to table the Annual Report of the Public Service Commission for
the fiscal year 2000-2001. Copies are already provided to the Speaker.
Thank you.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Youth Services and Post-Secondary
Education.
MS KELLY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I hereby table the Annual Report for the Provincial Advisory Council on the
Status of Women, Newfoundland and Labrador, for the fiscal year 2000-2001.
Notices of Motion
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, I give notice, under Standing Order 11, that on
tomorrow, Thursday, I will move that the House not adjourn at 5:30 in the
afternoon or at 10:00 in the evening.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
Answers to Questions for Which Notice has been Given
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Industry, Trade and Rural
Development.
MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, in order to keep my hon. friend opposite informed,
I have another little tidbit for him today.
He asked for a detailed breakdown of the cost to the Province of the most
recent Atlanta Trade Mission, including information on accommodation expenses,
entertainment expenses, advertising expenses, communications expenses, travel
expenses and other budgetary line items.
Mr. Speaker, I don't know why he doesn't keep those questions short and
ask for every detailed expense. It would make it a lot easier on us.
Mr. Speaker, I am glad to table it, and give him the information, and tell
him that I was represented at that -
MR. E. BYRNE: I am so concerned that you are concerned about my welfare.
MR. TULK: I know.
AN HON. MEMBER: Give him a cigar, Beaton.
MR. TULK: Oh, no. I don't buy cigars. That belongs to you know who.
I am so glad to tell him that I was represented at that trade mission by my
good friend from St. John's West, the Minister of Mines and Energy.
AN HON. MEMBER: St. John's North.
MR. TULK: St. John's North. I am sorry. He could probably win any seat
up in that area anyway.
Anyway, Mr. Speaker, he went to Atlanta and did an excellent job for me.
Mr. Speaker, I have to tell you that the cost to the Province, whatever it
was - let me see here now. The cost was $36,000 for everybody including several
companies that went there: Bio-Industries; TNB Laboratories; Atlantic
Communications Enterprises Limited; Excite Corporation; IDON East; Infotech
Canada; Telelink, The Call Centre; Value-Added Food; Flynn's Winery and
Distillery; and New Found Foods Inc. Mr. Speaker, the nine companies that
participated in this Trade Mission to Atlanta project - this can't be true -
expect that there will be direct revenues of $4.7 million Canadian over the next
two years from the effort.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, I know the gentleman will read this tonight and
say how positive, how wonderful, what a great investment this was. I am pleased
to give it to him.
MR. E. BYRNE: Now, where is my (inaudible)?
MR. TULK: What is that?
The staff over there, Mr. Speaker, is working night and day -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
Petitions
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Harbour Main-Whitbourne.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. HEDDERSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to bring a petition to the House of Assembly.
The petition of the undersigned residents of Newfoundland and Labrador.
WHEREAS the public library located in Brigus, Conception Bay, allows only
limited access to patrons due to the allocation of only ten (10) hours of
operation per week; and
WHEREAS the library is a valuable resource for all age groups from pre-school
to seniors; and
WHEREAS the Brigus Library supplies and covers a vast geographical area which
includes the eight communities of Brigus, Cupids, Georgetown, Marysvale,
Makinsons, Cupids Crossing, Roache's Line and South River;
WHEREFORE your petitioners urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador
to allocate additional hours for the operation of the Brigus Library to address
the literacy needs of the general public.
And as is duty bound your petitioners will ever pray.
Mr. Speaker, I bring this petition to the House of Assembly on behalf of a
young student from Ascension Collegiate in Bay Roberts, Miss Raelene White, who
is a Level II student. It was on her initiative, Mr. Speaker, that this petition
was circulated. It was placed in the public library. It was brought around to
convenience stores, gas stops, just about every community in the surrounding
area, to give at least 500 people the opportunity to put their name to the
petition, to bring it to this House and to the attention of certainly the
government.
The young lady, Raelene, wrote the Premier, the Minister of Education, and
the director of the library boards in Newfoundland and Labrador. Her request was
for them to look at it and to hopefully -
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. HEDDERSON: Yes, she did. I would say to the Minister of Education,
you are jumping ahead of me. They did receive answers from the Premier, from the
minister, that it would be reviewed. Again, she requested that I bring this in
because the names on the petitions, the movers, certainly needed to have some
public demonstration of their request. The request is not an unreasonable one,
Mr. Speaker.
The Brigus Library serves a region that caters to a lot of library patrons.
There are, for example, Mr. Speaker, something close to fifty preschool children
who, every Wednesday morning, attend a reading circle down at the library. The
librarian, Ms Elsie Percey, certainly goes out of her way to make sure that
every request that comes her way is fulfilled. With ten hours a week, it is
virtually impossible, Mr. Speaker, to take care of the needs of this particular
library. When you are looking at, in a month, a circulation of something like a
couple of thousand books, videos, different vertical files, it is very difficult
for the patrons to use the library effectively. It is not a question, as I say
to the Minister of Education, of resources. The librarian looks at the resources
as adequate. As a matter of fact -
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. HEDDERSON: We would hope.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. HEDDERSON: Yes, but I still have to present the petition, right?
Again, the question is -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. HEDDERSON: By leave?
MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.
MR. SPEAKER: By leave.
MR. HEDDERSON: Just in cluing up I would say, Mr. Speaker - it is time to
clue up, I say to the Government House Leader - I want to make sure that the
petition is presented, that the minister and the Premier realize that they are
most appreciative of complying with the request, but once to make sure not only
this library but certainly all libraries through this Province are getting
enough time in order to bring forth the action that is required to take care of
the needs of that particular area.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bonavista South.
MR. FITZGERALD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I stand today to present a petition. The petition reads:
To the House of Assembly of Newfoundland, in legislative session convened:
The petition of the undersigned residents of Newfoundland.
WHEREAS the road on the Bonavista Peninsula from Route 235 through the
communities of Open Hall, Red Cliffe, and Tickle Cove, is in such a deplorable
condition that it damages vehicles and creates great discomfort and safety
concerns for children on school buses and;
WHEREAS this road has not been upgraded since it was first paved more than
twenty-five years ago, despite serious deterioration;
WHEREFORE you petitioners urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador to
upgrade where necessary and re-pave the seven kilometers of road leading from
Route 235 through Open Hall, Red Cliffe, and Tickle Cove;
And as in duty bound your petitioners will ever pray.
Mr. Speaker, this is a
section of road that the Minister of Works, Services
and Transportation is certainly aware of. He went down there with me last year
and met with a delegation of people there and clearly saw the condition of this
particular roadway. At that time they had expected from meeting with the
minister that we would probably see a start made on this
section of road, and
they fully expected to receive approximately two kilometers of upgrading and
paving. They were happy with that. They were satisfied because they were going
to see a beginning made to upgrade and pave the roads. When the tenders finally
came out, and the cutbacks finally happened, they ended up, I say to you, Mr.
Speaker, with 400 meters of this seven kilometers of road upgraded and paved.
The road is certainly in a serious state of disrepair. In fact, one of the
store owners out there have been threatened by delivery trucks to have to come
in to the crossroads on Route 235, where this intersection meets Route 235, to
pick up his supplies for his grocery store. There are buses travelling back and
forth there to pick up school children. There is one contractor there, one
fisheries trucking company that probably have sixteen or twenty trucks that use
that road on a regular basis, and those are not dying communities. Those are
communities where you see new activity, new houses going up, new construction.
All they are asking for is their road to be maintained. While driving out the
seven kilometers of roads, you do not know if you are on the paved
section of
road or out on the shoulder of the road, because it has deteriorated so bad. All
they are asking for is a beginning to be made in upgrading and paving their
roads to bring it up to standard this year.
I certainly support them in their efforts to get this work done, and I ask
the minister if he would consider this request and consider the petition that I
continue to stand here in this House to present, to bring to his attention, when
he brings forward his road construction budget for this coming fiscal year.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: It being Wednesday, it is Private Members' Day. Today the
private member's motion is by the Member for The Straits & White Bay
North.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
As you said, I presented a private member's resolution. I will read it now
for the record:
WHEREAS the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador has done nothing in
twelve years to halt or slow down the rapid social and economic decline in rural
communities; and
WHEREAS the Government's Renewal Strategy for Jobs and Growth is all
process and no action;
BE IT THEREFORE RESOLVED that this House condemn the government for its
failure to develop a realistic plan to maintain economically and socially viable
communities in rural Newfoundland and Labrador.
Mr. Speaker, as we get into this - I have a few brief comments in opening
debate on this. Of course over the last couple of weeks the government has, from
time to time, pointed out how some parts of the Province are prospering, and
government is right in saying that. I have to say that in starting out.
As the Member for Kilbride has said over the last couple of weeks, the tale
of Newfoundland and Labrador is like the Tale of Two Cities . In some
parts of the Province, particularly the Northeast Avalon and some other places
throughout the Province, it is the best of times, but for many other places
throughout the Province -the vast majority of the Province and for the vast
majority of the people - it is actually amongst the worst of times.
As I have said, there are positive areas, the Northeast Avalon. The Northeast
Avalon has been driven, in large part, by the oil and gas developments on the
Grand Banks; by the service industry around that; by major infrastructure
development here, as was reference yesterday, Stavanger Drive, Mile One, the
building of The Rooms, the Outer Ring Road. You can go on, but that is to name a
few. That is good and great that the Northeast Avalon is doing so well.
When government talks about how there are more people working in Newfoundland
and Labrador today than there ever were - they speak about how out-migration is
slowing, they point to the out-migration figures but those figures mask what is
actually happening. It may be true for Newfoundland as a whole, but for rural
Newfoundland, the vast majority of the communities and the people in this
Province, those figures mask what is really happening.
If you look at the unemployment rates, for example, and you look at Zone 19,
here in the St. John's area, we see 7.7 per cent unemployment rate in 1999. I
do not know what the figures are right now, as of today, but certainly they are
pretty close to that. Of course, just about everybody who wants work is working,
I would expect with 7.7 per cent unemployment.
If you go out to Zone 6, the tip of the Northern Peninsula, in 1999; 36.3 per
cent unemployment rate. Zone 14, where the Minister of Fisheries and
Aquaculture; 20.3 per cent, that was actually one of the better regions of the
Province in 1999. Zone 15; 33.3 per cent.
MR. TULK: (Inaudible).
MR. TAYLOR: Two years ago, I say to the Minister of Industry, Trade and
Rural Development.
As I say, Mr. Speaker, it has not improved much. That is just one set of
figures and those are the most up to date figures that we have from the zonal
profiles throughout the Province. We looked at Gross Domestic Product - and the
government often speaks about how Gross Domestic Product is continuing to
decline. Mr. Speaker, we all know that is largely driven by oil revenues. The
question is: How is that translating into disposable income for the people of
this Province? If you look at how much disposal income the people of this
Province have had from the period 1989 to 2000, it has pretty much been
stagnate. Disposal income has hovered around, as I see it, $8.25 billion to
$8.50 billion in that period. It has not gone up, dipped at one point, and
rebounded a little. Mr. Speaker, it has not changed.
Lets look at the out-migration figures because this is what tells the true
story of rural Newfoundland and Labrador and is why I brought this private
member's resolution to the House today. In 1995-1996, 14,000-plus left the
Province; 15,000 in 1996-1997; just about 17,000 in 1997-1998; 13,600 in
1998-1999; 12,600 in 1999-2000; and 14,000 in 2000-2001. Now net migration has
slowed somewhat however, the people who are coming back into the Province are
not coming back to Englee, they are not coming back to Conche or Roddickton or
places like that, the rural communities around our Province. The people who are
coming back are coming to the larger centres and as I said, this is the reason
why we are talking about this today. The fact of the matter is, the situation in
rural Newfoundland is vastly different than it is in places like St. John's,
maybe Gander, Grand Falls, to some extent Corner Brook, and those type places.
Mr. Speaker, the true picture is that in the period from 1995-1996 to
2000-2001, 86,924 people have left this Province. While 48,000 have come back,
the people who have come back have not, in most cases, come back to rural
Newfoundland. They have come back to the more urban parts of Newfoundland. That
is the story of what is happening in Newfoundland. The people are leaving in
droves.
All we have to do is look at school populations, how those areas are
declining and we can see that the rural development strategy of this government,
as I have said, has failed rural Newfoundland. There might be some good stories
and I am sure yes, there are - and I admit that there are some good stories in
this Province - but by and large in rural Newfoundland the story is one of
decline, one of depression and one of out-migration, and it continues today.
While the government might try to say that it is slowing, if it is slowing the
only reason that it is slowing is that the people who are able to leave, had an
opportunity to leave, have left. The vast majority of the people are gone and
the communities are dying. You can go around my district for one, you can go
around the Member for Baie Verte's District, you can go around districts of
members on the other side of the House, and you can see the same picture
throughout the Province.
Mr. Speaker, government has to start putting action plans in place. While
they may point to their Renewal Strategy for Jobs and Growth, Mr. Speaker, the
Renewal Strategy for Jobs and Growth is long on intent and short on action. That
is the problem with the Renewal Strategy for Jobs and Growth. It is like the
saying: the road to hell was paved with good intentions. Mr. Speaker, good
intentions don't get things done. The government needs to develop an action
plan. They need to admit that what they have done over the past twelve years has
not been adequate. It has failed rural Newfoundland.
I will go to the tip of the Northern Peninsula; twelve to fifteen years ago -
and there has been a lot of water under the bridge in the last twelve to fifteen
years - there were no food banks on the Northern Peninsula. I can tell you that,
but that is not the story today. There are food banks, food hampers for
Christmas, fundraisers all the time trying to raise funds and food for people
throughout the area. Mr. Speaker, that is not satisfactory. It is great to talk
about how things are great in urban parts of this Province, and wave the flag
about the Gross Domestic Product, but unless the government starts spending
money in infrastructure development out in rural Newfoundland to invest in the
deteriorating water and sewer systems; to invest in transportation
infrastructure; and to create a climate for private sector investment in those
areas; to foster research and development in such areas as forestry; to
encourage silviculture and to invest in silviculture; to put money - I noticed
in the Jobs and Growths Strategy that we should encourage the federal government
to invest in the Canadian Centre for Fisheries Innovation, continue the
investment in the Canadian Centre for Fisheries Innovation.
Now, Mr. Speaker, I have yet to hear it come to the table, come to the floor
in this House, the Canadian Centre for Fisheries Innovation. It is a great
institute, as far as I am concerned, with tremendous potential, with a lot of
resources at its disposal -
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. TAYLOR: It is being funded right now, as the minister said, but while
the government, a couple of weeks ago, was here trying to get research and
development money for Inco, maybe if they had come here and looked for support
for research and development money for the Canadian Centre for Fisheries
Innovation, where we would all go and pursue the Atlantic Innovation Fund, then
maybe we would see this happen.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, just in response to what the member is saying, I
spoke to the Executive Director of the Canadian Centre for Fisheries Innovation
just last week. Unless it has changed in the last seven days, at that time the
Canadian Centre for Fisheries Innovation, after a year-and-a-half of pursuit of
funds from the Atlantic Innovation Fund to the tune of $9.8 million, unless that
has been announced in the last week, and I missed the press release, then, Mr.
Speaker, they are still looking for money to do the very good work that they
have done over the past ten to fifteen years.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, I know that the members opposite are always
eager to comment on my comments because they see such merit in the comments that
I make.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, I will conclude my remarks in the next short
while and let hon. members throughout the House get up and pass their judgement
on rural Newfoundland and Labrador. We heard some of their comments last night
about how great things were. As I said, we know that there are bright spots in
this Province, but for the vast majority of the people in this Province - I mean
for the vast majority of the people in rural Newfoundland and Labrador because I
cannot say for the vast majority of the people in the Province - where
population is declining, where school population is declining, where the young
people are leaving in droves, the situation is a lot different than it is in
urban Newfoundland. It is a lot different than it is on the Northeast Avalon,
and unless government takes action to stimulate growth and foster development in
those areas, to encourage research and development in those areas, then the
place is going to continue to decline.
In closing, Mr. Speaker, I really must beg of all Members of this House to
put their shoulders to the wheel in a much more constructive manner than it has
been done in the past twelve years, to foster development and to provide some
hope for rural Newfoundland and Labrador.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER (Mercer): The hon. the Member for Torngat Mountains.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. ANDERSEN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to speak to the motion. Mr. Speaker, I say to the hon. gentleman
across the way, if he wants to talk of rural Newfoundland and Labrador, then
talk no further than my riding. If the member across the way wants to talk of
difficult times and social problems, look no further than my riding.
Mr. Speaker, to say that government has done nothing in the last twelve years
is false and is misleading this Province.
When the TAGS program came out all across Newfoundland and Labrador, my
riding was the only riding where people did not qualify because when they based
the TAGS program it was based on catches in a certain year. In that year the
fishery failed in my riding and there were no landings.
I remember the Member for Bonavista South, when we had an All-Party Committee
that went to Ottawa, I spoke and I told them how people in my riding could not
afford a Christmas card let alone a Christmas present. That is what we went
through in rural Newfoundland and Labrador.
I remember the times of the great cod fishery, when the Tory government was
in power, when they came down and built what we call aspenite village, in
Smokey, outside Rigolet, and built houses for the Newfoundland fishermen, with
running water; and yet the people in Labrador could not get five cents, while
the people in Rigolet never had five cents to go towards water and sewer. That
is rural Newfoundland and Labrador.
Mr. Speaker, there is no question that there are difficult times in rural
Newfoundland and Labrador. Yes, I can say to everyone here that there were
times, since I came here as a member, when I questioned this government as to
what they were doing to help my riding, a riding that was impacted with social
problems, suicides, and the children in Davis Inlet. No other rural community,
or no other member in this House, had to deal with problems such as this.
I think, when we look at our resources and in our means of what we have done,
I believe that this government has reached out in many ways to help people in
rural Newfoundland and Labrador.
When I read the motion, I cannot help but think of a week ago when we put
forward a resolution to this floor to lobby Ottawa for money for development and
research. In my riding, probably the poorest riding in this Province, lies
Voisey's Bay. Mr. Speaker, I hope to God that we develop Voisey's Bay and
that the rural communities in Newfoundland and Labrador are going to benefit. I
hope the Member for Bonavista South, from St. Mary's the Capes, and from St.
Anthony, that your people will get jobs as well.
Mr. Speaker, I stood here and I voted on the motion for money for development
and research because I believe in this Province. I want to see the Member for
Bonavista South, in his hiding - I know he has hard times - and the Member for
St. Mary's the Capes as well. It is difficult times, we know that, but I
believe that this government has done everything within its means to reach out
and try to help rural Newfoundland and Labrador.
There are difficult times; I am not going to deny that. There are many things
that we are still lacking in my riding.
By the way, I say to the member who put this resolution forward, and to the
Member for Bonavista South who spoke, the Member for Ferryland talking about the
big riding that he has, I can say to all the members here, I can take the entire
Island, geographically, and fit it in my riding. That is isolation. That is
remote. That is rural Newfoundland and Labrador.
I want to finish off by saying, I believe that this Province has done a lot
for rural Newfoundland and Labrador. There is a lot that has to be done. There
are a lot of problems out there, a lot in my riding, and I will continue to
lobby. When resolutions come to the floor to lobby Ottawa, if it is for transfer
payments or for money for research and development, I will support it; but to
come here today and say that government has done nothing, I think it is wrong
and it is misleading the people of this Province. Therefore, Mr. Speaker, I will
not support this resolution.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Baie Verte.
MR. SHELLEY: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
I am indeed proud today to stand on this particular motion put forward by my
colleague from The Straits & White Bay North.
Mr. Speaker, with all due respect to the Member for Torngat Mountains, whom I
know very well and I have a lot of respect for. As a matter of fact, I traveled
to Ottawa with that particular member and we all stated our cases. Yes, we are
all unique in the parts of the Province that we live in, in rural Newfoundland
and Labrador. I certainly recognize the situation in the member's district
when it comes to Davis Inlet and the other problems that he has mentioned in
this House many times. I commend him for that. In his heart and soul, I know
that he means what he is talking about when he talks about his district and the
needs for his district.
Mr. Speaker, none of us in this House, as elected people in this Province,
have a monopoly on what is positive and what is negative. We try to deal with
the realities every day. I am from a rural Newfoundland district. Some
thirty-three communities. Mr. Speaker, I deal with the same problems that the
member just alluded to. I live in the district still. Every single day, right up
to today, until I came to this House today, Mr. Speaker, I am continuing to get
calls.
Although I hear over the debate the last couple of days, of ministers getting
up and talking about: you are down in the mouth, you are negative and so on, Mr.
Speaker, each and every member in this House is optimistic. You have to be
optimistic in order to run for public office in this Province, at the municipal
level, at the provincial level or the federal level. You have to be optimistic
but, if you live in rural Newfoundland, you also have to be realistic.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!.
MR. SHELLEY: Every single day, Mr. Speaker, I deal with the realities of
my district, like many other members in this Chamber. I know there are rural
members on both sides. Mr. Speaker, when Mrs. Fillier took it upon herself to go
on the public airwaves to tell her story, Mrs. Fillier was not alone. As a
matter of fact, Mr. Speaker, in my own district, that very weekend, when I
talked to people, they told me the same type of story. That was not camera work,
it was not makeup, it was real. That situation is not isolated. It is not just
on the Northern Peninsula or the Baie Verte Peninsula, or the Port au Port
Peninsula, or in Torngat Mountains. It is around this Province.
Mr. Speaker, with any problem that we confront in life, the first step is to
recognize and acknowledge that we have the problem and to recognize how big that
problem is. It is fine for ministers, and I know you have to do that in
government, to a point, where you have to stand up and be positive. We should
all do that, especially the ministers who are leading this Province. It is not
good enough to list out ten positives and just in a passing way say, yes, we
have some pockets in the Province that are not so positive. Mr. Speaker, those
pockets are deep, and the minister knows they are deep. We cannot be just
brushing it off on a flimsy, to say that it is just a small problem in this
Province. It is a big problem, I say to the minister. It is a big problem.
MR. TULK: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SHELLEY: Mr. Speaker, the minister is going to interrupt on my time?
MR. SPEAKER: On a point of order, the hon. the Minister of Industry,
Trade and Rural Development.
MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, on a point of order.
I did not say there were small pockets in the Province. Don't go putting
words in my mouth. I will speak once and tell you what I am going to say. I do
not need you to put words in my mouth. I did not say there were small pockets. I
said there are certain areas of this Province that have problems.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Baie Verte.
MR. SHELLEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The minister interrupted me. He will have his time. I am speaking now on
behalf of my district. I intend to use all my time. If the minister wants to
make his points, he will have all the time to do so and I will not interrupt, I
say to the minister.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SHELLEY: Mr. Speaker, just a little while ago, as a matter of fact, I
did an interview with the CBC Morning Show and it was all about municipal debt
in this Province, if you want to really see the real picture of rural
Newfoundland. The Minister of Municipal Affairs knows this. This is not a
fabrication. I am not embellishing the story. We have some 150 communities in
this Province dealing with debt relief today. This very day, Mr. Speaker, some
150 communities dealing with debt relief. As a matter of fact, Mr. Speaker, just
last week - and the minister also knows this, these are facts - the community of
La Scie, in my district, a thriving community once prosperous with the fishery,
a proud community, were within days, within days, of closing down their office,
of going basically bankrupt.
Mr. Speaker, to be fair, the minister and his department attended to that
situation and for the short term at least, and the interim, we are handing it.
That is probably the best way I can put it,
we are handling it to this point. In the long-term we have to deal with the
bigger issue.
The people of La Scie, the people who thrived on the fishing industry,
looking at a fish plant this year, that they had a proud history of, had some
thirty to forty people this year who could qualify for unemployment insurance.
That is not a fabrication, that is a reality. When we continue on with the
municipalities around this Province, when we look at 150 of them dealing with
debt relief, there is a big problem. It is a big problem, Mr. Speaker.
So the truth is, as we talked about out-migration, as the Member for The
Straits & White Bay did, and I spoke about it the other day, here is the
reality of it. We always talk about statistics. Statistics are great, but then
you have to put some real experiences in them. In the area of some 50,000 people
in the last decade have left this Province. That is the decrease in our
population when you talk about net-migration and so on. That is the statistics.
I do not have the exact number today, but there are about 50,000 people no
longer in this Province in the last ten years. To compound that, most of those -
I do not have the exact statistics but maybe the minister does - I would guess
80 per cent to 90 per cent of those 50,000 people left from rural Newfoundland
and Labrador. That is where they left from. That is like wiping out the
population of Corner Brook and Grand Falls in one swoop. Fifty thousand people,
most of them from rural Newfoundland and Labrador.
Here is a statistic that is not mentioned very much. There is probably the
same amount or more - and I do not know this one - that left rural Newfoundland
and Labrador to move into the bigger centers. So the truth is, it has been
compounded in rural Newfoundland and Labrador. Not only did most of that 50,000
leave rural Newfoundland and go to Alberta and Ontario, friends of ours,
relatives of ours, the other fact is, thousands upon thousands have left rural
parts of Newfoundland; Fleur de Lys, Englee, La Scie, Harry's Harbour. All of
those communities have left and gone to Corner Brook, Grand Falls, St. John's
and so on.
I heard the Member for Grand Falls talk yesterday. Grand Falls is my
neighbour, Mr. Speaker. I spent a lot of time there and know a lot of people
there. I am delighted for the Community of Grand Falls-Windsor, and the EXCITE
centre and so on. I want to make a point to the Member for Grand Falls, as she
made her comments yesterday, that she was excited and excitement should be
contagious. Yes, I agree. If we could spread that and people could accept it,
but people cannot accept the excitement when it is not in their back yard. They
are glad for them. I am sure there are people in Englee, Fleur de Lys or other
places we mentioned, they are delighted to hear news that there are new jobs in
Grand Falls. I do not think it is selfishness on their part to look around them
and say: I wish something could happen here. I wish we could be excited about
something, and be realistic. I wish we could see something down the road.
Yes, we talk about good news stories, and we have done it. The minister knows
any time in public, whatever the good news announcement is, whatever it is going
to be, I will commend the government any day of the week, and say: Good, there
are jobs going in. I will pat them on the back and say: Go for it, I hope there
is more; but you also have to recognize and acknowledge a big problem when there
is a big problem. There is today in rural Newfoundland and Labrador. It is a
serious problem.
When we talk about solutions - I know it is easy to criticize and people say
it so often, but a suggestion, if this government remains administrating this
Province and governing this Province for the next couple of years, as it says it
will, we have to see a long-term plan. To simplify it and to address two issues,
let's take two examples: the roads program and capital works program. The
previous minister to this minister, and this minister too - the respect I give
this minister. He also, I think on occasion - maybe he can speak today - agrees
that a multi-year plan - I know the Minister of Municipal Affairs has agreed. In
conversation I had with him, he would like a multi-year plan on capital works. I
think he is working towards that. Maybe he can make something public on it some
time.
Just for example, this minister and previous Ministers of Transportation have
said that they would like to have a multi-year plan. But what happened? Every
year, besides the fact that it is not enough to alleviate the problem, nowhere
near it, when we talk about - the minister said some $200 million in requests,
and he has $18 million to do road work in the Province. So what happens? We have
people on the roads protesting. Who wants to go up at 6 o'clock in the morning
on the La Scie highway or Harry's Harbour road and protest? These are people
who have jobs and have kids at home. They do not want to be up there at 6:00
a.m., I have stood with them. Who wants to stand up there at 6 o'clock in the
morning protesting because they have a gravel road? Or the La Scie highway that
is so treacherous - the Member for Bay of Islands knows because he travelled
with me, just a couple of weeks ago, the condition of the La Scie road.
Mr. Speaker, you talk about a plan, here is a gold mine, the only operating
gold mine in Newfoundland, down that highway. We came within inches last year,
Mr. Speaker, the road was in such a bad condition of basic infrastructure that a
gold mine almost had to shut down in this Province. The point being, Mr.
Speaker, basic infrastructure is a start. If you want to give a message to rural
Newfoundland and Labrador, if this government or any government wants to give a
message to rural Newfoundland and Labrador - do you know what my constituents
are telling me? Do the decent thing and start your priority list, talk about
infrastructure with a decent road and decent water and sewer within these
communities. That is all they are asking for. They are not asking for
double-lanes or a median running through Grand Falls, that the people did not
even want there. They are asking for a simple, decent road to drive over, Mr.
Speaker.
Imagine, in this Province today, in the year 2001, we are still with some 900
kilometers of gravel road not yet paved, Mr. Speaker, not even touched. Here is
the plan of this government; every year myself and members from rural parts of
Newfoundland, on both sides of the House - because they come from both sides -
go to the minister and whoever can scream and shout can get two or three or four
kilometers of pavement. That is the plan. The minister cannot tell you this year
or next year who is getting pavement. He can tell you who needs it. He can tell
you that there is 900 kilometers of gravel road in the Province. He can tell you
there 1,500 kilometers of pavement, that is twenty-five years or older, and
needs to be redone again.
Mr. Speaker, I have a suggestion. Government is looking for solutions. In our
plan there would be a need for basic necessities starting with road work and
water and sewer. Basic necessities that people deserve, no matter where they
live in Newfoundland and Labrador today - should be looking for that.
When the Member from Labrador made reference yesterday to the situation in
Southern Labrador doing good, I agreed with her. Do you know one of the reasons
it is, Mr. Speaker? Because of the infrastructure work that is going on there
now on the Trans Labrador Highway and so on. Good stuff, people see it.
Any politician who has been here for awhile in this House, Mr. Speaker, knows
that for people out there who are down and out and want to see something
positive, there is nothing better than seeing the paving machines coming in or
to see the loaders working on water and sewer in their community. They say at
least somebody cares about us. At least they are going to give us the basic
necessities of life, and that is what people in rural Newfoundland have as a
message. I hear it every single day. We do not want extravagant, unnecessary
things, Mr. Speaker, just basic necessities.
When the minister gets up I am sure he will list out a list of positives,
which he should do and which we will agree with. But you have to admit,
minister, that the people of rural Newfoundland and Labrador are looking for
some basics. When you see 50,000 people leaving this Province, most of them from
rural Newfoundland and Labrador, you know it has to hurt. If you are losing your
population, Mr. Speaker, it is a declining tax base, therefore it is tougher for
those councils to make the decisions on what they are going to do to improve
their communities.
That is why, Mr. Speaker, as we speak today, the Community of La Scie are
still looking for councillors to come in and take over, to sit on council. I am
encouraging them to do so but it is tough when they look at a budget where they
almost went bankrupt a few days ago and now they are looking at trying to
encourage councillors to come on the scene to help out. It is a tough job, Mr.
Speaker. I have all the admiration in the world for them, especially for those
people in rural Newfoundland who put themselves forward to work on municipal
councils, to offer themselves as municipal councillors. I think they have to be
the most respected people in Newfoundland and Labrador today, with the times we
are facing in rural Newfoundland and Labrador. My hat goes off to them, and I
hope we can fill those council seats. I hope that all rural Newfoundland and
Labrador can have a council that is going to work for them and hopefully, Mr.
Speaker, work with a provincial government hand-in-hand so that they can address
the necessities of rural Newfoundland and Labrador. They are looking for some
hope. That is what they are looking for, Mr. Speaker, they are looking for some
hope. It does not have to be pie in the sky. We don't have to make that famous
statement from twelve years ago that we are going to bring home every mother's
sons and daughters. We do not have to go that far. They do not want to hear
that. They just want to say, let's try to maintain what we have. Let's try
to maintain the infrastructure in our communities.
Like I said before about the member from Southern Labrador, if there is any
chance of rural Newfoundland rejuvenating or even maintaining what they have, if
they are ever going to encourage any type of investment, whether it be a company
of five or a company of twenty, to do whatever, you will not attract anybody if
you do not have the basic infrastructure in your community: a decent road, a
school, some decent health care, whether it is a clinic, not a full-fledged
hospital -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The member's time is up.
MR. SHELLEY: By leave, just to clue up.
MR. SPEAKER: Does the member have leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.
MR. SPEAKER: By leave.
MR. SHELLEY: Just those necessary things, Mr. Speaker.
The minister took a minute-and-a-half so he is going to give me thirty
seconds to clue up. That is good.
Mr. Speaker, I will clue up but I will have a lot more to say on this as we
speak further on the EDGE legislation which is coming in a few days.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I would like to make a few comments on the motion presented by the Member for
The Straits & White Bay North. I would also like to make a few comments on
some of the things that have been said in the House here in the last couple of
days.
Mr. Speaker, while I do not like to delve into the past or into history, I
think it is necessary to give my hon. colleagues across the floor a brief lesson
in history. As the quote goes: He who knows nothing of his past, knows little of
his present, and nothing of his future.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. REID: No, that was not Abe Lincoln.
Mr. Speaker, the member opposite, the Member for The Straits & White Bay
North, for the past few weeks has been getting up here and making statements and
quotes from the report that I had commissioned on Corporate Concentration in the
Fishing Industry. However, he seems to omit the parts of the report that he, and
his party, are not pleased about. The member opposite has made numerous
statements in the House and in the press in recent days about this government is
distributing poverty in its licensing of fish plants.
Mr. Speaker, I do not like to go back as far as 1975, but it is important
because we have to know how we got where we are today. In 1975, some three years
after the Tory government took power in this Province for the first time, there
were ninety-five fish plants in this Province, in Newfoundland and Labrador.
Five years later in 1980, there were 169 licensed fish plants. So, in four or
five years they went from ninety-five to 169.
Mr. Speaker, between 1981 and 1989 they issued an additional sixty or seventy
licences. The thing about it is, in 1989, when we took power, when we took the
government back from the Tories, we were left with 251 fish plants in this
Province. In fact - I am not sure but I am pretty certain - that they were
issuing licences right up to the election in 1989, and even during it. So, when
we took power in 1989 we had in excess of 250 fish plants in our Province, as a
result of Tory policies. This is why I am confused when the Member for The
Straits & White Bay North talks to me about distributing poverty in this
Province. I say to the member opposite that we stopped distributing poverty in
this Province when we took power in 1989.
Mr. Speaker, not only that, the Member for Lewisporte knows, he was the
Minister of Fisheries for four or five years in the late 1980s. He knew the
situation of the fish stocks at the time, and when we took control of the
government in 1989, we were faced with declining cod stocks, and shortly after
that we witnessed the closure of fish plants in St. John's, Trepassey,
Gaultois, Grand Bank and Ramea. That wasn't the worst of it. That was in the
early 1990s. In 1992, Mr. Speaker, came the moratorium, and we know what
happened during the moratorium. We had thousands of harvesters and processors,
fish plant workers, thrown out of work all around this Province, Mr. Speaker.
MR. TULK: What provincial government was in power when we destroyed that
stock?
MR. REID: We know the answer to that. We know why we had to close the
fishery in 1992, Mr. Speaker.
I remember, after the moratorium was called, traveling to Fogo Island at that
time. I wasn't the MHA at the time, but I was working for the Fisheries
Minister of the day. I remember traveling to Fogo Island and I remember leaving
on the ferry that afternoon and thinking to myself: What are these people, who
depend solely on the fishery, going to do? What are they going to do when they
depended so heavily on the cod stocks off the coast of Fogo Island? I said: I
don't see a future for them.
Well, let me tell you: This summer on Fogo Island there were three plants in
operation, a shrimp plant in Seldom, a crab plant in Fogo and a groundfish plant
in Joe Batt's Arm. Mr. Speaker, there was full employment, or pretty well full
employment, on Fogo Island this summer.
I also had the opportunity, in the time following the moratorium in 1992, to
travel to Southern Labrador, in The Straits district represented by my colleague
behind me here. I remember the devastation that these people were witnessing as
a result of the collapse of the groundfish fishery. Many in the Province figured
that those towns along the Coast of Southern Labrador would never survive and
that they would have to leave.
Well, Mr. Speaker, I visited those areas the summer and am proud to be able
to tell members opposite that in plants in L'Anse-au-Loup, Mary's Harbour,
St. Lewis, Charlottetown, Black Tickle and Cartwright - I visited all those fish
plants this summer. I made it a point to ask the foreman in each one of these
fish plants: How many people are unemployed in these towns? Each town I went
into, every fish plant, I asked the owner or the operator of the fish plant: How
many people are unemployed in this town? You know what the answer was that came
back to me every time? Anyone who wants a job in this town can have one right
here in this fish plant.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. REID: This summer we had total employment, I will have you to know,
in the district represented so admirably by my colleague, the Member for
Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. REID: Mr. Speaker, I can talk to you about many other success stories
in the Province. I can tell you about my colleague in Bonavista North, his
district, where Beothuck Fisheries operates, one of the best operators that we
have in the Province. I remember talking to the individuals who run that
operation down there back in late June of this year, and they were waiting for
the kids to get out of high school because they needed more employees in those
plants.
Mr. Speaker, I am not saying that we have successfully rebounded from the
moratorium. I am not saying that the fishery is perfect. What I am saying is
that we have come a long way since 1992 when the moratorium was called. Back in
the early 1990s, the total export value of fish products from this Province was
somewhere in the area of $600 million. Well, last year, Madam Speaker, for the
first time in the history of this Province, the export value of fish products
exceeded $1 billion.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. REID: While I sit back here every day and listen to the members
opposite talking about their doom and their gloom and the bottom is out of her
and the sky is falling - because that is all I have heard in the last four weeks
that I have sat patiently over here listening to them, Madam Speaker. The bottom
has not fallen out of her and the sky is not falling.
Let me talk to you about some of the positive initiatives that this
government has undertaken in the last few years. To begin with, back in 1989, as
I told you, we inherited 251 fish plants around the Coast of Newfoundland and
Labrador; 251. I notice that the members opposite don't want to hear that
figure today. Well, since that time, Madam Speaker, we have reduced that number
of fish plants from 251 to 125. That is not an easy task, as the Member for
Lewisporte well knows, when every day you have members of communities knocking
on your door, looking for a crab licence or looking for a shrimp licence. They
think that is their only salvation, the only way that they are going to survive,
to have a crab licence. Madam Speaker, we all know that you cannot issue crab
licences to every community in this Province, even though the Member for The
Straits stood in this House here in the last four or five weeks and continually
made reference to the fact that he wanted one for St. Anthony, while at the same
time condemning me for giving a licence to Twillingate.
We work closely with the industry to enhance the quality of our product. We
have not been, or we had not been, producing a top-notch quality fish product
for sale in the U.S. and Europe for a number of years, but because of the
initiatives undertaken by my predecessor we did bring in a quality enhancement
program, we did hire a number of inspectors. In fact, we had twenty-seven last
year. I would like to inform the House that the quality of our fish export has
improved dramatically and is known now throughout the world as a good quality
product.
While we have some work to do on that, we are at least heading in the right
direction. I am confident that the people of this Province, the people of
Newfoundland and Labrador, will produce a great fish product that will be known
worldwide for being such.
There are a number of other things we have done through the Fisheries
Diversification Program, a program that we cost-share with the federal
government. We have done a lot of initiatives. We have implemented, or helped
companies bring on new products; we have helped with processing technologies; we
have helped with modernizing fish plants; we have helped with market
development; we have helped with harvesters and so on. I am not saying that
everything is perfect in the industry, but we have come a long way in the last
seven or eight years.
One of the best things that we have done since 1992 is the mechanism that we
have put in place for pricing for fish products in our Province. Prior to
1995-1996, each spring, when the harvesters came to the processors to negotiate
prices for their products, we usually ended up in a strike position, which
delayed the fishery and caused harm in the marketplace.
Madam Speaker, we brought legislation in here in 1987-1988 called the Final
Offer Selection. We are very proud of that. In fact, the government in Nova
Scotia have been looking at this system and they are looking at implementing it
themselves.
We have come a long way. We have a lot further to go, but we have come a long
way. We are going to continue to proceed with our plan. The hon. members
opposite continuously say that we do not have a plan. I am proud of the plan
that we have had. I am proud of the plan that we have, and will continue to work
with the people of this Province to see that plan is implemented.
In aquaculture, if the members opposite have not had the opportunity, I would
love for them to go down into the Bay d'Espoir region and see the numbers of
people employed. Up at the head of Bay d'Espoir, there was a fish plant last
year that employed somewhere in the area of fifty to seventy people for
thirty-eight weeks. Processing what, Madam Speaker? Aquaculture fish, salmon and
steelhead trout. A beautiful facility with lots of room for expansion and great
potential.
My colleague from Bonavista North mentions a cod hatchery. We are working
very closely right now with a number of individuals in this Province, in the
private sector, to establish Newfoundland and Labrador's first cod hatchery. I
am very excited about that because I think that is where the future of many of
our rural communities is, in cod aquaculture; not just from the harvesting point
of view but from the processing. I honestly believe that a number of the fish
plants that we have on the South Coast could, in the next few years, be reopened
for extended periods of time, processing nothing only aquaculture cod. We have
done a lot. We have taken a leadership role, Madam Speaker, and we will continue
to do so.
I have been accused by the Member for The Straits & White Bay on a number
of occasions that we do not have a plan for the industry. That is all I hear
opposite, every one of them getting up: You don't have a plan. What is your
plan?
I refer, and I don't like to do this very often, to The Newfoundland
Herald and an
article that Mark Critch had in there this week, when he
talked about the plan that they so jealousy guard over on the other side of the
floor. We have not heard any of the platforms in that plan, Madam Speaker, but
every day they say to us: You do not have a plan. They have nothing to offer.
Indirectly, the Member for The Straits & White Bay North has let slip one of
the planks of their platform. That is to close fish plants in this Province,
because he says we cannot distribute poverty. I can tell you, Madam Speaker, the
first fish plant to close in this Province, if the hon. member gets his way, is
Twillingate. He has said it time and time again, that I should not have issued a
licence for Twillingate. Madam Speaker, I will tell you, and I will tell the
member opposite, I will not apologize for reissuing a licence to the Town of
Twillingate for a fish plant. I will not apologize!
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. REID: In fact, Madam Speaker, Twillingate should never have been out
of the fishery, to have to come back in. One day the member opposite says: I
should not have given the licence to Twillingate. The next day his leader, in
another area of the Province, like the time in Lewisporte: Oh, don't mind what
the member said about that. Don't mind the member; he is not speaking for the
party. We will straighten him out. He tells the people in Lewisporte, from my
district, one thing and then his colleague stands and says something totally
different. Madam Speaker, I have been listening to that now for four weeks from
the people opposite.
AN HON. MEMBER: Take your time now.
MR. REID: Don't worry.
Madam Speaker, I would also like to say that the member opposite - we talk
about FPI and they are saying that what is happening with FPI is going to be the
death of the fishery, and that is the indication we are given, but if you want
to talk to the Member for Bonavista South, he claims that this year they had
more employment in that plant than they had last year, Madam Speaker. I hope
that continues.
He talks about Catalina, and I know full well that back in the early 1990s
and in the 1980s that plant did employ roughly 1,000 or 1,200 people, as many of
the plants in your own district did. Unfortunately, with the moratorium, it was
cut off. These people found themselves without a means to support their
families.
As he talked about yesterday, the tannery that they have in Catalina, last
year employed fifty people year round. That is not going to be the same economic
engine that they have had in the past. At least, Madam Speaker, it is something.
It is something positive and it is something to build on, just like the plant
they have in Bonavista. I know the hon. Member for Bonavista South appreciates
it and he appreciates the company that are in there. They are doing a remarkable
job taking sealskin pelts to the garment stage, that are being exported
worldwide today. A fabulous product, Madam Speaker, and I wish them all the
luck. I hope they can continue to be prosperous. As the Minister of Industry,
Trade and Rural Development said, that is another example of how EDGE worked - a
program that was implemented by this government - and will continue to work.
Madam Speaker, I am not going to talk too much longer. I would like to hear
eventually what their plan is going to be. It is easy for them to sit back and
talk about the doom and the gloom. We never hear anything positive from these
individuals, Madam Speaker. I do not think that we are going to. They say they
are going to hold their plan until the next election. They are going to hold
their plan until the next election, at the same time out criticizing us for
doing what we are doing. The hon. Member for Lewisporte knows that the fisheries
portfolio and the fishery in this Province is a difficult portfolio. I am not
condemning the hon. gentleman over there for issuing some of the licences that
he issued while -
MR. RIDEOUT: I never issued a groundfish licence while I was there.
MR. REID: You issued other licences, though. You issued other licences. I
am talking to the Member for Lewisporte, Madam Speaker, who was not a bad
Fisheries Minister. He understands, I think, more so than his colleagues because
it was prior to 1999, and I would like for the Member for Lewisporte to know
this, prior to 1999 when he was re-elected, the period from 1996 until 1999, I
sat here and any time that we mentioned what the Tories did in the past, his
colleagues across the floor would say: Oh, it wasn't us. We had nothing to do
with them.
They didn't want anything to do with you then, I say to the Member for
Lewisporte. I tell you, you were not a bad Fisheries Minister.
Some of the programs that you brought in were good ones and they are still
good.
MADAM SPEAKER (M. Hodder): Order, please!
I remind the hon. the minister that his time is up.
MR. REID: By leave, Mr. Speaker, in closing.
MADAM SPEAKER: Does the hon. the minister have leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: No leave.
MADAM SPEAKER: No leave granted.
The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. MANNING: Thank you, Madam Speaker.
I am pleased today to stand and say a few words in relation to the private
member's resolution put forward by my colleague. I am going to, maybe for a
moment first, talk about a few positive things that are happening in my
district.
MR. TULK: (Inaudible).
MR. MANNING: Wait until I am finished, I say to the Minster of Industry,
Trade and Rural Development.
A few positive things are happening in my district. I look at the Emerald Sod
Producers operation down in St. Shotts, a very, very successful operation, Mr.
Pat Hewitt. I look at a whale watching operation that is happening in St.
Vincent's over the past couple of years that has been put in place and has
brought tours down to our area, to the Holyrood Pond area, another great
operation. I look at Daley's plant in St. Joseph's that just got reorganized
into a shrimp facility providing a couple of hundred jobs over the past couple
of years. I look at the development at the Rocky River Salmon Enhancement
Project, another great project. Windy Meadow kennels in Branch, St. Mary's
Bay, owner Tom Power, who is shipping dogs around Canada and around the world,
as a matter of fact, Madam Speaker. I look at Spy Glass Limited in Ship Cove,
who has created 100 per cent employment in that community; even though there are
only five or six people there, they are all working. That is 100 per cent
employment in that community with Spy Glass Limited. I look a new operation down
in Argentia called Epoch Rock, where the Minister of Industry, Trade and
Technology was out to last year and got up in an excavator and tipped her over.
It wasn't just cutting the ribbon.
MR. TULK: I done some job, eh?
MR. MANNING: Well, I have to question now whether they would hire you on
as an operator but when I looked at the concern he had, I said, he is used to
being in a situation like that because he was digging a hole with the excavator.
The Minister of Industry, Trade and Technology was digging a hole, so he was
very comfortable in the position he was in because he was digging a hole, and he
continues to dig a hole every time he speaks, Madam Speaker.
When I look around at my District of Placentia & St. Mary's, I see
positive things happening. I see positive things happening because I have some
great people in my district who take the bull by the horns and go out and put
the shoulder to the wheel and create those things to happen; but, at the same
time, I have to deal with the reality of the situation. The reality of the
situation is that there are a lot of places in my district, many communities in
my district, many people in my district who are hurting. They are hurting
because of the situation we have in the fishery.
I just listened to the Minister of Fisheries talk about what is happening the
past couple of years, and the fact that we have a billion-dollar industry, and I
echo the comments. I mean, thank God that we had the fishery in Newfoundland and
Labrador. It has been a growing industry; but, at the same time, Madam Speaker,
in Zone 18, which is part of my district, you cannot process one crab in Zone
18. You cannot process a crab in Zone 18. In Jerseyside, Placentia area, you had
millions of pounds of crab being landed on the wharf. In St. Bride's, Branch
and down through St. Mary's Bay, you have millions of pounds of crab being
processed, and in Zone 18 you cannot process a crab. At the same time, across
the road in the District of Port de Grave, we have eight or nine crab licences.
There are a number of crab licences in Port de Grave. There are a number of crab
licences in other parts of the district, in a very small closeness to each
other. That, to me, is not proper planning. That is what I say to the minister.
It is not proper planning when you can drive twenty minutes or half-an-hour and
pass four crab plants, and when you drive right through Zone 18, you cannot have
a crab licence. That is the kind of things that we are talking about on this
side.
We talked about the crab operations, I say to the Minister of Fisheries.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. MANNING: I did not interrupt the Minister of Fisheries when he was
up. I am just making a few comments, if I could, concerning my district.
We have a situation in my district where we could have hundreds of jobs,
Madam Speaker, only for the fact that the immense amount of product that has
been caught by our fishermen, caught by our harvesters, is being exported out of
this Province for processing somewhere else. That is a major concern that we
have raised, I have raise before, and I know the minister is concerned about
that, the amount of processing jobs that are leaving the Province. We need to
sit down with the people involved and try to keep as many jobs here in the
Province as we can, and not take no for an answer in some of these situations. I
know it is tough. I know quite well it is tough.
Madam Speaker, another concern I have in my district, which government would
play an important role in, is the development of proper roads. If you travel
throughout my district, we have the gateway to the Avalon area in Argentia that
brings in thousands of tourists every summer. You get off the ferry and travel
down to the Cape Shore, down towards Cape St. Mary's or down into St. Mary's
Bay, Father Duffy's Well, Rocky River, the whale watching in St. Vincent's
and so on, and you have deplorable road conditions. It is an excellent place for
the government to do something positive in that regard, and to create an area
where we have a developing tourism industry, but we need the road infrastructure
to go along with it.
An important thing that we need to do, Madam Speaker, and the government
needs to look at, is telecommunications. I listened to the media today where we
were celebrating the 100 th Anniversary of the Marconi wireless
message. From one end of the world, Madam Speaker, to the other, we can relay a
wireless message, but when go halfway down Salmonier Line and you cannot use
your cell phone, I mean there is something wrong with that system. Government
needs to look at that in order to have - and I hear it time and time again - you
know, the opportunity to have a business anywhere in rural Newfoundland. This
situation, when you cannot operate a cell phone in many parts of my district, I
think that is the place where the government could come in.
Last year, I attended a function at the Legion Club in Placentia where a
company called PB Tech was willing to set up a help desk in Argentia and they
needed fibre optic cable to come from Whitbourne down into Dunville. The fibre
optic cable was already in Dunville, but it needed to travel down the Argentia
Access road for a cost of somewhere around $1 million. Because the government
was not willing to step up to the plate we lost that opportunity to create 300
jobs in our area.
It is easy for the government to say, or easy for anybody to say, to set up
shop in the larger centers like St. John's, Corner, Grand Falls-Windsor and
those places, but government needs to be involved in order to get those
businesses to come into rural Newfoundland. The population basis in the larger
areas, Madam Speaker, dictate many times the opportunity to bring the businesses
into those areas, but there are many parts of rural Newfoundland, certainly in
my district, that need that government intervention. It needs a plan to deal
with telecommunications and it needs a plan to bring the jobs into rural
Newfoundland.
Mr. Speaker, I look back at the relocation plan of the government which they
tout has done so much for rural Newfoundland. There is no doubt about it, Madam
Speaker, that there are certain parts of the Province that have benefitted from
the relocation plan. There is no doubt about that, but the fact is that many
rural parts of the Province, the real rural parts of the Province, have not.
I look at situations where you have government services moved out of St. John's,
which is a large center, into other large centers. Again, the opportunities for
jobs in these large centers are there already. Madam Speaker, there is no
Wal-Mart on the lower road in Cuslett. There is no Tim Hortons in Coote's Pond
in Riverhead. There is no Price Club in Path End in St. Mary's. You know these
are the places that need government help. These are the places that need someone
to step in and to provide the jobs for. Therefore it is important that we look
at rural Newfoundland in a different light than we look at it in regards to how
the people are looking at the larger centers.
A few moment ago I mentioned about PB Tech, the telecommunications aspect of
things. There is a concern, Madam Speaker, in the fishery in my district, many
concerns, that we need to certainly have a plan in place that utilizes the best
areas. There is not going to be a plant in every community anymore, Madam
Speaker, but there is an opportunity here to have a plan in place where a shrimp
caught in my district or crab caught in my district will be able to be produced
there. We have to have a serious look at that
Mr. Speaker, we look at the government touting its plans. You know, for the
past number of years that I have been here, every couple of months you get a new
catalogue. You get a new catalogue from the people opposite. I mean, I have
several of them here on my desk. Mr. Speaker, every month or every couple of
months we get a new catalogue. We have an On deck and Below catalog, an Achieving
Excellence 2000 catalogue, a Strategy for Small Scale Manufacturing in
Newfoundland and Labrador catalogue, the Economy 2001 catalogue, Securing
Our Future Together catalogue, People, Partners and Prosperity, a
Strategic Social Plan for Newfoundland and Labrador . Mr. Speaker, people in
this Province today are looking at catalogues. They are looking at the Christmas
catalogue, hoping to be able to get something for their children, hoping to be
able to get something for their family. It is a wish list in a lot of cases. In
most case, these catalogues here are wish lists also, Madam Speaker.
It is important that we take a serious, serious look at rural Newfoundland. I
have some serious problems in my district, Madam Speaker, in relation to the
fisheries, and serious problems in relation to development and creation of jobs.
We have an opportunity to create jobs in Argentia, hopefully, through the Voisey's
Bay development. I continue to ask questions on that, because I believe it is
important that we ask questions, and ensure that we get the right deal for the
people of the Province, that we get the right deal for the people that I
represent. It is important that we continue to ask the questions, and that we
have an opportunity, through the questions, to find out what the plans are. Not
for me, Madam Speaker. I am not going to be working in Argentia, but my children
or grandchildren may. It is important that we get the opportunity here in the
House, through debate, to ask the questions that concern the people in the
Province, to ask the questions that concern the people in our districts. It is
important that government take a serious look at a true rural Newfoundland plan,
because rural Newfoundland is in desperate need of assistance. It is in
desperate need of having implementation from the government. That is something
that we can work with and work into the future with.
Madam Speaker, I want to go back for a moment, if I could, to the fishery,
because I believe the fishery has been the major source in the past in relation
to creating jobs in my district. I traveled down through St. Mary's Bay, to
plants like we had in St. Mary's this year, the crab plant in St. Mary's,
and you know the people there in St. Mary's try their best to get as much
utilization out of that plant as they can.
MR. TULK: (Inaudible).
MR. MANNING: I cannot hear you, I say to the minister.
MR. TULK: (Inaudible).
MR. MANNING: I can't hear you. I am sorry.
What I am saying to the Minister of Industry, Trade and Rural Development -
and I certainly welcome the interjection because I like to know what is
happening - is, we had an opportunity last year to create 300 jobs in Argentia
with PB Tech if they had to get up and running with the help desk. The problem
seemed to be that the fibre optic cable was not coming from Whitbourne down into
Dunville. The fibre optic cable was in Dunville. What I am saying is that we
understand that businesses such as NewTel and other businesses, in larger areas,
do not have a problem. They do not have a problem with setting up shop because
they have the population there to get the money back that they invest. What I am
saying is that there are situations, such as the one with PB Tech, I think,
where government needs to step in and help out.
We need to ensure that the fibre optic cable - if all that is holding up the
300 possible jobs in Argentia is the fiber optic cable from Whitbourne to
Dunville, I think the minister would agree that is something that we all could
look at together and try to get it put in place. Madam Speaker, we have been at
it for quite some time. I say to the minister, I just want to bring it up today
because it is one of the situations in my district that I believe needs to be
looked at, and it is an opportunity for government to step in and do something
about.
Madam Speaker, as I said, there are some things happening in rural
Newfoundland and some things happening in my district of a positive nature, but
there is concern out there, and I want to get back, if I could, once again to
the fishery. We have a situation in my district in Zone 18 where we do not have
a crab licence. We have millions of pounds of crab that are caught in that area,
and not produced in Zone 18. The RED board, the zone board, has been pushing for
it, the Chamber of Commerce has been pushing for it, the town councils have been
pushing for it, many of the organizations out in the area have been pushing for
it over the past number of years. No, it has not come to fruition.
I understand, Madam Speaker, I understand fully, that you cannot have a fish
plant or a crab licence in every community, you cannot have a shrimp licence in
every community, but if we have a regional plan, a regional focus, if we have
the ideas put in place to share the wealth around the area, to share the wealth
around the zone, at least, then, I think, we would have an opportunity to have a
crab licence in the zone.
Not only crab, Madam Speaker, we have a marine center down in Admiral's
Beach owned by the provincial government up to a couple of years ago and was
turned over to a local committee. The marine center needs some major
infrastructure work at a tune of several hundred thousand dollars. They have
much, much larger boats that they are dealing with there now. I was down there a
couple of weeks ago. The yard there is full of longliners, Madam Speaker, from
throughout my district and from other people's districts. The fact is that the
marine centre is not able to keep up with the structure of the boats that are
there now. Again, it is an opportunity there for government to intervene, to put
some money on the table. There was a plan a couple of years ago. We went down
there. We had the provincial government at the table, we had the federal
government at the table, we had all the different funding agencies at the table,
and they wanted a study. I think it was the time FRAM-ED was on the go, Madam
Speaker, and we had a study that they were looking at.
We got all of the funding partners at the table and they demanded that we
have a study put in place. The study cost $70,000, I think it was, and by the
time they got the study completed and presented back to the funding agencies,
all the funding was gone from FRAM-ED. Here we paid $70,000 on a study, where
the people in that area, the people who operate the marine centre in Admiral's
Beach know full well what needs to be done there. They have some excellent ideas
and they have a plan, Madam Speaker. They know what to do in Admiral's Beach,
but again they need government assistance to do that, to make a very viable
operation, an operation that is surviving now on tooth a