Newfoundland and Labrador Hansard — Statements by Ministers — 7 April 2004 (45th General Assembly, 1st Session, Vol. XLV No. 12)
2004-04-07
Newfoundland and Labrador — Debates (Hansard)
April 7, 2004 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY
PROCEEDINGS Vol. XLV NO. 12
The House met at 2:00 p.m.
MR. SPEAKER (Hodder): Order, please!
A point of order has been raised by the hon. Member for Grand Bank.
MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, I sincerely believe that it is as important to
tell the truth outside this House as it is inside. Last night I listened to
comments by the Member for Trinity North on the Open Line show, who suggested
that when there was a private member's resolution in this House that was
introduced - in fact, by the Premier - with respect to the federal government,
that I did not stand to speak to that private member's resolution. He went on
to suggest that because I did not stand to speak to it that no one knew where I
stood on the issue.
Mr. Speaker, it is clearly recorded that it was a unanimous vote in support
of that resolution. Everybody knew where I stood. The member was here, he knew
we took a vote. In fact, it was the Official Opposition who asked to have that
vote taken and to have the vote recorded.
Mr. Speaker, I stood in support of the Premier as a private member in support
of that resolution because I sincerely believe we need to have the federal
government sit up and take notice of where we are in this Province. I ask for an
apology, Mr. Speaker. It was a private member's resolution on March 31, and
the hon. member knew the difference.
MR. SPEAKER: The Speaker will take the point of order under advisement.
We will come back and examine the record and come back and report at a later
date.
The hon. the Minister for Finance and President of Treasury Board.
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I think it is important that proper decorum take place in the House. I did
make a comment in the House yesterday, and whether parliamentary or not, is not
the matter, Mr. Speaker, I withdraw that comment. I am certainly interested in
getting on with the business of the Province. We have many issues out there and
I just want to get on with it.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: I thank the member for his comments. The Chair will review
all these matters pertaining to the point of privilege of yesterday and the
points of order raised yesterday and will report back to the House at the
appropriate time.
The hon. the Leader of the Opposition, on a point of order.
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
With respect to the withdrawal given by the Minister of Finance and President
of Treasury Board, I give notice to you the Chair, that I withdraw my point of
privilege. I think it has been dealt with adequately and I appreciate the action
taken.
MR. SPEAKER: The Chair certainly appreciates the comments by the hon.
Leader of the Opposition. As members know, from time to time things may get said
in this hon. House that members did not intend. I thank all hon. members for the
excellent way in which they handled the matters yesterday afternoon, and I thank
the members today who have spoken. The Chair now considers these matters
resolved and we shall continue on with the business of the day.
MR. HARRIS: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: Statements by Members. I am sorry. Again, we have a point of
order by the hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I also raised a point of order yesterday rising out of these matters. In
light of the hon. withdrawal of his statement by the hon. member and the respect
for the usages and customs of this House, I would also withdraw my point of
order.
Statements by Members
MR. SPEAKER: Again, the Chair thanks the hon. member for his commentary.
We shall continue with Statements by Members. Today we have statements by: the
Member for St. John's Centre, the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans, the Member
for Humber Valley, the Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune, and the Member for
Labrador West.
The hon. the Member for St. John's Centre.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SKINNER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today, Mr. Speaker, to inform this House and all its hon. members of a
financial donation made yesterday by the World Under 17 Hockey Organizing
Committee to twelve minor hockey associations in this Province.
You may recall, Mr. Speaker, that a world class event for hockey players
under the age of seventeen years was held in the St. John's-Mount Pearl area
over the Christmas and New Year's holidays. This event gave international
exposure to our Province, to our community, and to our facilities. It was a huge
success with accolades coming from all participating countries.
The goal of the host committee, Mr. Speaker, was to showcase our Province and
to break even financially. Well, Mr. Speaker, they did better than that. Besides
being a world class event, the host committee reported a profit of $10,000 and
was also able to donate almost $23,000 to twelve minor hockey associations in
the Avalon area.
Mr. Speaker, congratulations to the Avalon Convention Visitors' Bureau, who
hosted the event and to the over 400 volunteers who helped to ensure that it was
a memorable experience for the 250 hockey players from all over the world.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this moment to recognize the efforts of Mr.
George Finlay from Grand Falls-Windsor, who is helping to find a cure for Lou
Gehrig's disease. Along with eleven other Canadians, Mr. Finlay travelled to
Tanzania and climbed Africa's tallest peak, Mount Kilimanjaro. Their
fundraising effort is called Climb for the Cure and they hope to be able to
raise $1 million for the ALS Society of Canada. While Mr. Finlay had not had any
previous mountain climbing experience, he has been very eager to meet this
challenge, and to aid the ALS Society of Canada.
On the morning of March 6, the twelve-member team reached the summit of Mount
Kilimanjaro and only one can say and imagine what an emotional experience that
must have been.
Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this hon. House to join me in extending
congratulations to Mr. Finlay and the rest of his team on their success climbing
the expedition as well as their fundraising efforts for ALS disease.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Humber Valley.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS GOUDIE: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to congratulate the community of
Woody Point on receiving the Manning Award for Excellence in the Public
Presentation of Historic Places for their Waterfront Development project.
Woody Point is a small rural community nestled on the east side of Bonne Bay
in the Gros Morne National Park.
Several years ago Woody Point was a vibrant fishing community, but after the
closure of the cod fishery in the early 1990s it faced many challenges to stay
alive.
The community, under the leadership of Mayor, and former MHA Everett Osmond,
focused on its beautiful surroundings and rich heritage to develop a plan to
restore its waterfront property and many buildings that are more than 100 years
old. Over the past few years tourists have come to Woody Point to experience its
scenery, culture, and community heritage.
This would not have been possible without the whole community coming
together, and bringing to life a town that is struggling to survive.
Mr. Speaker, I ask all members here today to join me in congratulating the
Town of Woody Point on receiving the Manning Award.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. LANGDON: Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to
recognize the efforts being made by the Town of St. Alban's to preserve the
local history. Recently, the town has hired on Briege Kealey as the new heritage
co-ordinator. Ms Kealey and Mayor Gail Hoskins hope to see tourism benefit from
the town's preservation of its history and its natural environments.
Moreover, St. Alban's has a very active Youth Heritage Committee, which is
co-ordinated by Lisa Willcott. Participants Jodi Skinner, Gail Barnes, Holly
Benoit, Tamara Strickland, Cindy Farrell and Felicia MacNeil are very busy
collecting old photographs and artifacts to be preserved on DVD. They will also
be writing a book on the town's history.
Mr. Speaker, I hope I speak for everyone when I say that it is wonderful not
only see the rich history of this Province being preserved, but to see the youth
of Newfoundland and Labrador playing a major role in this effort. I would like
to extend to the Town of St. Alban's and the Youth Heritage Committee the best
of luck with their efforts.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, on March 27-28, I had the privilege of accompanying a group of
seniors from Labrador West on their third annual overnight excursion to the
Myron River Outfitting Lodge. Some of you may have seen last year's show which
was filmed and shown on CBS's great show, Land and Sea , shown in recent
weeks.
Mr. Speaker, their trip begins by being bussed seventy kilometres to the
Ashuanipi River where they board a 1957 twelve-passenger Bombardier skidoo for a
thirty-five kilometre journey into the Labrador Wilderness.
Upon arrival at the lodge, Mr. Speaker, they are served lunch. During the
afternoon a very serious card game takes place where, if you play the wrong
card, you may end up on the menu for supper.
Speaking of supper, Mr. Speaker, our fine chefs prepared a huge meal of
turkey, moose, caribou, rabbit and turr with all the trimmings.
Entertainment for that evening was provided by a local band, Pat & Wayne,
who play traditional Newfoundland and Labrador and Irish music, setting the
stage, Mr. Speaker, for what seniors love to do - dance.
Mr. Speaker, we can learn a lot about life from our seniors. Their attitude
towards life, their many experiences, their respect and appreciation of others
are all things we can learn from them.
Mr. Speaker, I would like to read their names into the record of the House of
Assembly: Mrs. Daisy Pelley; Mrs. Becky Squire; Mrs. Marion Walsh; Mrs. Aggie
McGrath; Mrs. Myrtle King, who is eighty-one; Mrs. Ella Hoffe, who is
eighty-five, was accompanied by her daughter Glynnis Hynes; Mr. Walter Ryan; and
finally, Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Edna Loder, our dancing champion, who will be ninety
years young in September.
Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the seniors I would like to thank everyone involved
for making that weekend possible and, Mr. Speaker, as we speak, they are at
their clubhouse in Labrador City this evening tuned in to the proceedings of the
House. On behalf of all of us here, I would like to say a big hello to all of
them.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
Statements by Ministers
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I rise today to inform fellow members in the House of Assembly
and the people of Newfoundland and Labrador that the House of Assembly will not
follow its regular parliamentary calendar at this time and that the House will
not be closing for the Easter Break.
This decision was made given the extraordinary circumstances facing the
Government of Newfoundland and Labrador, the people of the Province, and for our
public service sector workers who are presently on strike. The government
recognizes the importance of the House remaining in session during the current
public service job action.
Mr. Speaker, government believes that it is critical for the House to be open
at this time so that full debate can not only proceed but be perceived to be
debated in the House.
It is our intention, Mr. Speaker, that we will defer the Easter break to a
time following the conclusion, hopefully successful conclusion, of the current
job action.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I thank the minister for an advance copy of his statement.
We commend the government for this move. In fact, that is the preference, as
was expressed by the Opposition earlier also. We, indeed, would agree these are
very exceptional circumstances we have in our Province at this time with the
ongoing public sector strike. We feel it is most appropriate that the House
remain open during this difficult time.
As the minister said, government has committed to being open and accountable
by having the people's House open during this time, and it certainly does, as
well, allow the Opposition to make sure it is open, as is our responsibility, in
terms of keeping them accountable and keeping the people informed as well.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
We certainly agree that the House should be kept open as long as the strike
is on, but this sort of implies, Mr. Speaker, there being an offer on the table,
that this strike is not going to be settled today, not going to be settled
tomorrow, not going to be settled Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday of next week. The
assumption inherent in this, Mr. Speaker, is this strike will go on and on. Why
are we not saying, in the event that the strike continues we won't have our
Easter break?
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
Oral Questions
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, my first question today is for the President of Treasury Board,
the chief negotiator for the government.
We in this Legislature know, and the people of the Province understand, that
he gives daily updates to the media with respect to issues regarding
negotiations on the ongoing strike.
Mr. Speaker, the question is: Could he provide a quick update to the House of
Assembly and could he indicate to the members present, and through the media
here to the people of the Province, whether or not he is optimistic that a
resolution is near at hand?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury
Board.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The intent of having media briefings at 12:30 each day is to enable people to
answer any questions on the contingency plan that is going on, in case there are
questions within the system they want to ask. Each day, just about every day,
they do ask questions on negotiations there. My response to them, basically,
today on that was that we received a proposal from the unions and that we will
respond today in writing to them. I told them that I did not want to engage in
any aspects of that because I think it is only fair that the process is ongoing
and we did not want to, in any way, hinder or put out in the media aspects of
the negotiation. I have not done that. Prior to midnight on March 31, I had not
done that in any way, shape or form. I want to respect the process and to let it
work as it is going on now.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I thank him for the answer and commend him on his efforts and wish him well
in reaching a solution.
Mr. Speaker, I think, too, that people would know that today would normally
be a full payday for the 20,000 people that this government has forced into the
streets. Thousands of people across the Province have been negatively impacted
over the past week. The question for the Premier is: Is the Premier concerned
about the real life negative impacts this strike is having on the 20,000
strikers, their families and the people they serve, or is he still in a fighting
mood today?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, first of all, I would like to acknowledge the presence of our
public sector employees in the galleries and welcome them here this afternoon.
I also want to tell the Leader of the Opposition that I am extremely
concerned about it; very, very concerned, as we all are concerned, all the
members on the government side, our Cabinet, and indeed we are concerned about
the public sector workers and indeed the people of Newfoundland and Labrador who
have reduced services as a result of this labour dispute that we have presently
ongoing.
Mr. Speaker, I can assure the Leader of the Opposition that we are doing
everything we can to try and bring this to a fast and speedy resolution.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, it is clear that the 20,000 striking public employees did not
cash their full paycheque this week, and those 20,000 people and their families
are not making their regular purchases, let alone doing any discretionary
spending.
Can the Premier talk about the concern that has been reported to his
government with the respect to the impact this strike is having on the thousands
of small businesses that provide goods and services in the Province, that are
already suffering as a result of this strike being now a week old?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, we have a duty and a responsibility and a concern for all the
small businesses in our Province, as we have a concern for all the residents of
the Province, each and every one of them, including our public sector workers.
We are doing everything we can to try and reach a settlement. We have to reach a
settlement that the Province can afford. Unfortunately, we have been left with a
desperate set of financial circumstances which was not our own creation. We are
trying to deal with those circumstances.
On March 31, last week, I felt that we did have an offer on the table, that
was a good offer. It was an offer that had taken back the concessions that we
had indicated that we were looking for. We had also put a very fair offer on the
table. That was zero, zero, two, three and three. We subsequently reduced that
at the request of the members of the union to a four-year agreement, which was
what the members of the union wanted. We brought it back to zero, zero, two and
three. We left it outstanding until Sunday evening past. We stayed in our
offices. We were here Saturday, we were here Sunday, and we heard nothing back.
We have put our best foot forward to try to alleviate any pain for any of our
workers. The last thing we are trying to do is to harm their families and -
MR. SPEAKER: I ask the hon. the Premier to complete his answer.
PREMIER WILLIAMS: - harm the communities and/or the small businesses or
anyone else in the Province.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, union negotiators are publicly stating that concessions that are
still being sought by the government are the major stumbling block to reaching
an agreement. Can the Premier answer why it is that the government is still
insisting on taking benefits that have been gained over the years out of the
contract when the government has already imposed 4,000 jobs cuts over the next
four years and have the unions expressing a willingness to agree to a two-year
wage freeze? Why is it that there is still an insistence on top of those two
major items to seek concessions and have the contracts have items and benefits
removed that have been gained over the last thirty years of collective
bargaining?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, as I just indicated, in the offer that was put on the table
before the evening that the commenced, we did, in fact, pull all of these major
concessions off the table. The concession with regard to sick leave was taken
off the table for current employees. The concessions with regard to severance
was taken off the table. The concession with regard to pension indexing was
taken off the table.
With regard to what is ongoing now, there was an offer presented by the union
last night, which was sent to us. We are, in fact, responding to that. That
response will go back this afternoon. Because these negotiations are very
delicate, it is unfortunate that the Leader of the Opposition wants to try and
fuel the situation. We are trying to reach a resolution of this dispute. I am
not in a position to discuss what was presented by the unions; nor am I in a
position to present what will be presented back to them, because they have not,
in fact, yet received our counterproposal and it would be improper for me to
discuss that in public.
The Leader of the Opposition was looking for a blackout and at the same time
he wants me to disclose everything in public. Which way does he want it, Mr.
Speaker?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Part of the problem is coming down to trust, when the Premier suggests -
maybe he does not understand what a concession is, because they are still
looking for major concessions at the bargaining table.
Mr. Speaker, it has become clear after a week that more so than ever the
public and the people of Newfoundland and Labrador are looking to this
government for a solution and a resolution. They have grown tired of the hot
rhetoric from the Premier travelling all over the Province to condemn everybody,
and the blame game which he plays here again today. It is everybody's fault
except mine.
Mr. Speaker, the question for the Premier is this: Will the Premier agree to
cease his confrontational approach, stop bashing anyone who dares to disagree
with him, and get back to meaningful negotiations so the 20,000 public employees
can go back to work with dignity and respect, and provide the services that the
people of the Province want, deserve and need?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, we are not looking for confrontations. We are now engaged in
meaningful negotiations. We have been engaged in meaningful negotiations since
March 31, in order to try and reach a resolution. We have come back with a
counterproposal. We are following a process which is that the union puts their
proposal in writing; we will put our counterproposal in writing to find out
exactly where we are.
When it comes to dealing with some of the statements that have been made, as
Premier of our Province, I will never, under any circumstances, condone
law-breaking and leg breaking in this Province.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
In case the Premier does not understand the definition of confrontation,
20,000 people forced into the streets, against their will, happens to be a
confrontation; just in case he does not know. Maybe that is part of the problem
again.
Mr. Speaker, I make the offer again today. Yesterday I offered the Premier
the opportunity for politicians, like us, to participate in a media blackout so
that the negotiators could do their job and we could stop the rhetoric and let
them work towards a resolution. I ask him again today: Would he like to take me
up on the offer for us to let the negotiators do their job, to stop the
rhetoric, the blame game, the heated passionate statements, the name calling
that the Premier has been getting on with -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the member to complete his question.
MR. GRIMES: - but anyone who would dare say something contrary to his
opinion, it happens to be a free country, would he like to take us up on the
offer, to leave the negotiations to the negotiators and keep people like himself
and myself out of the media so they can get the job done, on behalf of the
people who would like to go back to work, and the people who would like to have
the services restored?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I find it very ironic that the Leader of the Opposition is the one who is
asking me to refrain from name calling and personal attacks. There is some irony
in that, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, as an elected Premier, what I am prepared to do is to continue
to inform the people of this Province, and while there is misleading information
being put forth by anyone, I have to counteract that. We are not looking for
confrontation. We will continue to follow a proper process. When requested -
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Yes, if you would not mind. If I could just give the
answer please?
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: We followed a process. We requested yesterday afternoon
to have our negotiators at the table. They were at the table. The proposal was
then submitted to us in writing last night. We have taken that proposal. We are
analyzing it. We are responding in a proper manner, in writing. That is the
right way to do things and that is the way we will conduct this. We want a
resolution.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'anse au Clair.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My questions are for the Minister of Health and Community Services.
Do people of this Province expect accessible health care? Yet, with a massive
public sector strike, caused by this government, people are restricted from
getting the medical care that they need. Thousands of clinical appointments have
been cancelled, surgeries postponed and critical treatments are not available.
I ask the minister: How much pain, suffering and general disruption is she,
and her government, willing to accept before they make a reasonable offer of
settlement and end this strike?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS E. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Providing health care services when there is a strike ongoing, Mr. Speaker,
is always very difficult. However, at this point in time the health care boards
are coping and we are providing emergency and essential services to the
residents of the Province.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'anse
au Clair.
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I ask the minister, how can she sleep at night knowing that
people's lives in this Province are in danger and that seniors are going
without adequate care? We know that there are residents right now in our
institutions, that she is responsible for, who have not even been taken out of
their beds in the past week. Mr. Speaker, we know they are only receiving
partial care and that their meals are late and cold. All of this because of a
strike that her government has caused. Minister, have you no consideration for
these people?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS E. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, for that question from the hon.
member.
As I have indicated before, the employees of the health care corporations are
striving to provide the best service they can under very difficult
circumstances. We are in ongoing contact with all of the health care boards in
the Province, and at this point in time I am confident that the people are being
provided with essential and emergency services.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'anse
au Clair.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, the minister knows that not all essential services
are being provided in the health care system today. She knows there are people
out there on lists waiting for treatments and cannot get them because of this
strike. She also knows that we have managers who are not trained to be in these
long-term care institutions pulling twelve-hour shifts, four days straight,
trying to provide care of the residents.
Now, minister I want to ask you: Why are you not focusing on meaningful
negotiations? Will you tell me today if you have had any discussions regarding
back-to-work legislation, because you certainly are not concentrating on getting
these people back to work?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS E. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I thank the hon. member for that question. I have not had any discussions
whatsoever with regard to back-to-work legislation. With regard to any other
collective bargaining issues, I would like for her to refer her questions to my
colleague, the Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for Treasury Board.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Twillingate & Fogo.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My questions are for the Minister of Finance and Treasury Board. On March 23,
2003, the Premier, when he was Leader of Opposition, stated, and I quote: The
Progressive Conservative Party will honour all collective agreements currently
in place with the public sector unions should we form the government. Mr.
Speaker, now that his government has slashed the $5 million we put in our Budget
last year for janitors and secretaries around this Province, does he feel that
he has honoured that commitment?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury
Board.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The collective agreement expired on March 31 and we are in the process now of
trying to reach a collective agreement. I am not gong to piecemeal every single
issue here in the public. We are going to deal with that in the collective
bargaining process in a professional manner with the leaders representing and
their negotiators there who represent these respective unions.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Twillingate &
Fogo.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. REID: Mr. Speaker, I say to the minister, if he would take the time
to read the general service collective agreement under clause 59.2, he would
understand that the agreement is in place until another one is signed or
legislated upon those workers out there today.
Mr. Speaker, when these same janitors and secretaries in our schools in the
Province were on strike two years ago, the Minister of Finance himself stood in
this House and asked us to get these people back to work. We did this by
negotiating a fair deal with these individuals. Now this same minister is
keeping these individuals on the street and on the picket line by stripping the
contracts which the government, I was part of, signed with them. Will the
minister now apologize to these workers and stop his attack on some of the most
lowest paid and hardest-working individuals in our society?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury
Board.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The items that were referenced in the report he is alluding to, the first
date of these items here were budgeted and provided to the school boards for
services here in our Province.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the hon. the Member for Twillingate
& Fogo.
MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, it is my understanding that the deal we are talking about, or
the clauses we are talking about right now in the House, could be a deal breaker
in the negotiations that are happening down at the hotel.
I will switch my questions. I will redirect them to the Minister of
Education, because I cannot get a serious answer from the Minister of Finance.
I want to ask the Minister of Education: Will he intervene with the Minister
of Finance and the Premier to have those contract-stripping measures stopped so
that they can get back to some serious negotiations and put the people like
those in the gallery back at their work instead of out on the streets?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury
Board.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I do not think it would be appropriate, when we are in a negotiating process,
to have any particular person intervene in a negotiated process. I think the
appropriate thing to do is to try to reach an agreement on all items. There are
several items presented and being discussed in proposals here of contention. We
want to look at each of these, and every single one is important to the people
affected. We want to negotiate a total package. We have to keep in mind, Mr.
Speaker, a deal that is negotiated is fair, is of relevance to the time and to
the fiscal situation and ability of our Province to negotiate a deal. In good
financial times we would expect people to be able to have better opportunity to
access a better deal, and when times are more difficult we would have an
expectation to have a different type of deal. They are relevant to the time and
to the fiscal situation of our Province, and we would follow that on behalf of
the people of our Province in a fair, responsible and prudent matter.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My question is for the Premier. Given his comments here today, Mr. Speaker,
am I to take it that the Premier has now changed his tone and is no longer
trying to inflame the situation in the public sector strike? Is he prepared to
commit here today to stop trying to undermine the leadership of the CUPE and
NAPE locals who are trying to get an agreement with this government? Is he
prepared to do that as well?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, I have never tried to inflame the strike
and these negotiations.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: I am trying to reach a settlement in these
negotiations. The Leader of the Opposition, the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi
Vidi, are the people who are actually inflaming the entire situation. We are
working towards a solution. We are trying our best to reach a compromised
solution with the unions. We will continue to engage in a fair, collective
bargaining process. We will put our comments in writing and we will allow the
process to take its course.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: On a supplementary, the hon. the Member for Signal
Hill-Quidi Vidi.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The Premier said earlier that he took concessions off the table for current
employees. If he actually took the concessions off the table, I would say there
would be a deal today, Mr. Speaker. Will the Premier not realize and accept that
the tactic of having a two-tiered system for current employees and future
employees is in fact a divide and conquer tactic? Will he stop this divide and
conquer tactic from his government in terms of these negotiations?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, we have very serious long-term fiscal problems in our Province;
very, very serious ones. They have been described as structural; they have been
described as systemic. We have to try and improve the fiscal situation in our
Province for future generations, for our children and our grandchildren.
What we have said to the employees in the public sector is, we have said
there will be no changes in the sick leave and we are asking that future
employees who come into the system have reduced sick leave so that we can at
least get some relief in the long term, to turn this Province around. That is
the reason.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Absolutely.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
If the Premier and his government are seriously trying to reach an agreement
and a deal with the public sector workers, can he explain to the House why
government officials in the Finance Department are actually being asked to
calculate the savings to government if various sectors of the public service are
in fact ordered back to work separately?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I have been asked publicly on several occasions what kind of
savings government would effect by keeping our public sector employees out. I
have never asked that question. It is not something I want to know. It is not
what we are trying to do here. We are not trying to save the money on the backs
of these people being out on the picket lines. We do not want to have them out
on the picket lines.
There has never, ever been a request to do those calculations on my behalf,
and you can feel free to ask the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury
Board because I am certain it has never been asked. We want those people back to
work. We are not trying to make savings on their back, believe me.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Torngat Mountains.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. ANDERSEN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, my question today is for the Minister of Transportation and
Works and the Minister Responsible for Aboriginal Affairs.
Mr. Speaker, part of the problem in getting a solution to this bungled public
sector strike is the anxiety about job security. It appears that the Easter
bunny delivered a few surprises in last week's Budget. Can the Minister of
Transportation and Works and Minister Responsible for Aboriginal Affairs tell
this House if his department plans to close a dozen of highway depots across
this Province?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works and
Aboriginal Affairs.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. RIDEOUT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I thank the hon. member for his question. I was listening intently and I had
difficulty understanding the question. Was the question: Are we planning to
close down highway depots across the Province? If that is the question, the
answer is no, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Torngat Mountains.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. ANDERSEN: Mr. Speaker, for good reason public employees are
aggravated and distrustful of this government. We receive dozens of phone calls
each day; many of these employees have already received their layoffs. Again, I
ask the minister: Are you planning to shut down any highway depots or
departments across this Province?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works and
Aboriginal Affairs.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. RIDEOUT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Again, I have to inform the hon. member, whether he likes to hear the answer
or not, we are not planning to close down any highway depots across the
Province.
AN HON. MEMBER: Contract (inaudible).
MR. RIDEOUT: No, we are not planning to contract out either.
There are people who work in the Department of Transportation and Works. Many
of them work on a seasonal basis. Some come on and work during winter
maintenance. They will be laid off when winter maintenance is over. There are
people who come on and work on summer maintenance, and when that is over in the
latter part of the fall they normally get laid off. Those kinds of things happen
on a regular basis, but in terms of closing down depots, no, Mr. Speaker, there
is no plan for that.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. BUTLER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The Minister of Human Resources, Labour and Employment and the Status of
Women continues to stand by her word that the workload has been rectified in the
district offices and that plans have not been made to finalize which offices
will close. When does she anticipate being able to tell the workers who are
currently on strike whether or not their offices will close, and will they have
a job to return to?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Human Resources, Labour and
Employment.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, at this time I am continuing to review how we can
modernize the Department of Human Resources, Labour and Employment. I can assure
all of the workers who are on strike right now that they will be returning to
work once this strike is over.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Port de Grave.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. BUTLER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I say to the hon. minister, do not fall into the same trap as the other
members of her government and mislead the people of this Province.
Mr. Speaker, steps have been taken to make sure that certain offices are
closed, and some of the regions in this Province know how many offices are going
to close in that region. Workers on the picket line are devastated, Mr. Speaker.
Will she be honest and remove the concerns and uncertainties? Will she tell
this House, will she tell her workers, will she tell the clients of this
Province who look for assistance through her office, which offices are going to
close?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Human Resources, Labour and
Employment.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, first of all, I would like to assure all
recipients of income support that service delivery and efficiencies in that
delivery service are paramount in any decisions that will be made in regard to
this department.
Secondly, minimum impact to employees is also a very important value that
will play a significant role as these decisions are being made.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MS BURKE: I would also like to let people know, and the hon. members
know, that once decisions have been finalized they will be announced. I will not
be making any announcements until the decisions have been made.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Bank.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, the announcement in the Budget that the new health
care facility in Grand Bank has been cancelled has left the people on the Burin
Peninsula who use the clinic, which is an old cottage hospital, and the
residents and employees of the Blue Crest Seniors Home feeling betrayed by this
Premier.
Premier, I have to ask: During the election, did you promise that the new
health care facility under construction in Grand Bank would be completed if you
became Premier? Did you ever give that commitment?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, when we conducted the election, when we participated in the
election, we were moving forward on the basis of a certain set of facts and
figures and our understanding of what the financial situation of this Province
was.
MR. REID: You should have asked the Auditor General..
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: We know that over the course of the last two years the
Opposition Critic for Finance was trying to find out what the situation was in
this Province. We were not fully aware of the desperate, desperate fiscal
situation that this Province was in -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: - until we took over government on November 6. At that
particular point in time, we discovered that there was going to be $1 billion
deficit. That was something we could not forecast, that was something that was
unforeseen, and that is something that numerous people, experts around this
country, have said is unsustainable.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Time for one final supplementary, the hon. the Member for
Grand Bank.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, I assume from the Premier's answer that he did
make such a commitment. He certainly didn't deny making the commitment.
He sat as the Leader of the Opposition for two years in this House and I don't
know if a day went by that the Finance Critic didn't speak about the state of
the Province's finances, and he sat right beside the Leader of the Opposition,
and, of course, with the Auditor General as one of his star candidates as well.
I have to ask, Premier: Why didn't you qualify that commitment? When you
are talking about a $17.5 million facility, why did you not qualify that
commitment? The people feel betrayed. You had to know, if you were discussing it
at all with the then Finance Critic, the state of the Province's finances. To
suggest now you didn't know, I am afraid -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the member now to complete her question.
MS FOOTE: I feel that the people on the Burin Peninsula feel misled by
you. Did you misled them by not qualifying that commitment?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, I can only wonder, at the time that the
member made the commitment to the people in Grand Bank-Fortune, was she aware
that she would be seeking the federal nomination this evening?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: The time for Question Period has expired.
AN HON. MEMBER: Here is the man with the (inaudible) attack.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please!
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please!
Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury
Board.
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Today I table the report of the Newfoundland and Labrador Liquor Corporation
for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2003.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please!
The House will recess until order can be restored.
Recess
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
[Technical difficulties]
We certainly want to encourage members of the public to visit their House of
Assembly. It is their House, and we want to welcome always visitors who come
from the general population to come to this Chamber; however, we want to let
them know that they are not to participate or to demonstrate in any way, nor
show their approval or disapproval of any proceedings in the House. When these
matters happen, the Chair has no choice but to suspend the proceedings and then
to commence the proceedings when appropriate order has been restored.
We are now resuming our proceedings for the day.
Petitions
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'anse au Clair.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I rise again today in the House of Assembly to present a
petition on behalf of the residents of Cartwright-L'anse au Clair, my
district, with regard to the Labrador marine service.
Mr. Speaker, this is four times since this House sat this session that I have
risen to present petitions on behalf of the constituents of my district with
regard to the marine service. We are awaiting a response from this government as
to what the configuration of service will be for marine operations in Labrador
this year.
Mr. Speaker, as I have said twice and maybe four times already in this House,
this government commissioned a study by the Policy Division of Memorial
University. They asked for recommendations on the most cost-effective way to
operate the marine services in Labrador. The minister and the government have
had this report since the middle of February, a preliminary report, and then, in
addition to that, a subsequent report that came later. Mr. Speaker, I can only
ask again for this government to make the appropriate decision, make the right
decision, to operate the Sir Robert Bond , the Labrador ferry that is
there for the people of Labrador, between Cartwright and Goose Bay and not out
of the minister's own District of Lewisporte.
Mr. Speaker, it is unfathomable that in this day and age the people of
Labrador would have to come on bent knee, once again, begging to the government
to maintain a service that is rightfully theirs, that is rightfully used and
operated for their benefit, but yet we still do not have the satisfaction of
those kinds of decisions and we have to continue to fight and debate.
I ask the Premier to be true to his own word, his own word that he
communicated to the people of my district on a conference call back in November
when they were launching a protest to save the Sir Robert Bond and the
service in Cartwright, where he told them that he would honour the
recommendations of a report that he, himself, would commission; he, his
government, would pay for. He told the people of my district, at that time, that
he would honour those recommendations and that he would do what was in the best
interests of their region and of all the people who were affected in Labrador,
not in Lewisporte.
So, I want to ask this government to make a decision to release the document
that they have in their possession, which should be a public document, because
these marine services affect the people of Labrador. They do not have all the
information. They do not know where this government is going with regard to this
service, but what we do know, Mr. Speaker, is that this service is due to start
in about six weeks. We are pleading. We are desperate. We need a decision.
Orders of the Day
Private Members' Day
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
It being 3 o'clock on Wednesday afternoon, the Chair is now obliged to call
Orders of the Day. I do believe that we now will call the motion put forward by
the Member for Bellevue.
The hon. the Member for Bellevue.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. BARRETT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Today I rise in my place to, I guess, address a serious situation in this
Province today. I have been in House now, it will soon be fifteen years, and I
remember participating in a few debates in this hon. House. I remember first
when I got elected, I guess, and we were in a very serious debate in terms of
the Meech Lake debate and where we were going to go in this country and what was
happening in this country.
A year or two ago, I participated in the Voisey's Bay debate, and today I
would rank this resolution along with these particular resolutions.
The private member's motion that I put before this House today is a very
serious resolution.
WHEREAS there are unfortunately 20,000 public service employees on a legal
strike resulting in serious service disruptions; and
WHEREAS there was no consultation with their elected representatives as
promised by the Premier in his address to the NAPE convention in September,
2001; and
WHEREAS there has been very little real negotiation between government as the
employer and the union negotiators; and
WHEREAS the Premier has made threatening remarks regarding the strikers being
punished and left off the job "until the cows come home"; and
WHEREAS the Premier has engaged personally in unfair labour practices by
passing the elected leaders and the negotiators in attempting to divide and
conquer the unions;
THEREFORE
BE IT RESOLVED that the House of Assembly call upon the government
to return to meaningful negotiations with professional negotiators in an attempt
to reach a mutually-agreed new contract; and
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the House of Assembly call upon the Premier to
reinstate his commitment to respect the bargaining process and not to use the
Legislature to impose an agreement.
Mr. Speaker, after a lot of reflection in terms of where this government is
going, and the kind of agenda that this government has, I have been thinking a
lot lately in terms of where we are headed in the Province of Newfoundland and
Labrador. I guess, on reflection, we go back to November 6. I did not say it at
that particular time; I remember saying some other things at that particular
time, and I was hoping that it was not true and I had hoped that I was being
wrong because when this present Premier put his Cabinet together on November 6,
there was one glaring omission in his Cabinet.
When he put his Cabinet together - we can talk about regional representation,
we can talk about gender representation and all the other issues that a Premier
has to consider when he puts a Cabinet together, but the one obvious omission in
this particular government was that there was not a department and a Minister of
Labour for this Province. I think that gives us some indication where this
particular government was going.
For a while this particular government decided that they would put labour
into the Department of Environment, and then they changed their minds after two
or three months and they said: Well, now we are going to split the department.
We are going to put one
section of the department with Human Resources and
Employment and we are going to put another
section of the department, the
occupational health and safety part of the department - I was so proud to be a
minister and stand at a conference in Ontario last year when a person got up and
said: Why doesn't the rest of this country be as good as Newfoundland and
Labrador and lead the country in terms of occupational health and safety
regulations? I was proud to be a Newfoundlander and Labradorian, to know that we
were getting credit on the national scene for something else: our commitment to
the workers in this Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. When we saw the
Cabinet put together this time around, there was no ministry of labour, no
Department of Labour. What they have done is set up an agency.
Do you know something? Wherever I went when I was the Minister of Labour,
people told me that in Newfoundland and Labrador we had some of the best labour
relations people who existed anywhere in North America and existed anywhere in
the world. As a matter of fact, over the years, some of our top people have
settled many, many work stoppages in the private industry in this Province of
Newfoundland and Labrador. Do you want happened when this government took over?
They even got rid of some of them.
On the radio the other day, I heard that some of the private businesses in
this Province have their negotiations on hold because they do not have enough
conciliation officers. I think that is drastic in terms of where we are going in
this Province of Newfoundland and Labrador.
Then, the next big thing, I sat there on January 5, in shock, listening to
the address by the Premier of Newfoundland and Labrador to the public within the
Province. Without any consultation with anybody in his caucus, the people who
were elected by the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, without any
consultation, I am sure, with anybody within the labour relations aspect of
Newfoundland, he went on national, or provincial television, in a George Bush
type style, and said: We are going to freeze the wages of the public servants in
Newfoundland and Labrador. That was the start of the labour relations and
negotiations getting off track within this Province.
Right from the beginning, the Premier - not only that, but he did it in a
very George Bush type style. At the end of his speech, he said, as the President
of the United States says: God guard thee Newfoundland - and, as an
afterthought, he said: Labrador.
We all know what this Premier thinks of Labrador and the people in terms of
Labrador. We have seen what is happening. We see the hon. member here - but that
is an issue for another day. That is an issue for another day, and I will be
very proud to take
part in the debate when we discuss what is happening in
Labrador as a part of this Province of Newfoundland and Labrador.
Hon. members, I fear very much that we are going back with this government to
the fish merchant mentality of Newfoundland and Labrador. Union people and
workers in this Province have had a great struggle over their lifetime to get
respect, to get benefits, to get the things that they richly deserve.
I remember as a young boy growing up on Woody Island, and the fight that the
fishermen had in terms of trying to get a good day's pay for their efforts. I
remember when fishermen would get up at 4:00 or 5:00 a.m., before motorized
vehicles, and row out to the fishing grounds and haul the nets and trawls, and
work like slaves, and come in and cure the fish. I guess one of the things we
say is that men of Newfoundland and Labrador - and I say that the women of
Newfoundland and Labrador probably worked twice as hard as the men in terms of
curing the fish. A quintal of fish was 110 pounds dried. At the end of the
fishing season the fish merchant decided that they would give them a paltry sum
of money, and not enough to pay the bills.
If we want to go further, most of the working lot of people who grew up and
worked in the community that I lived in, worked in the lumber woods and were
loggers. We all know hon. members, and the people of Newfoundland and Labrador,
the fight that our loggers had. I remember talking - and living on Woody Island,
they would go away and be gone for three or four months and come back. They were
living in conditions in the lumber woods that was not fit for a dog. It was not
fit for an animal! They had to take on the battle and they had to take on the
fight. My father was one of these. He died a very young man of TB because of the
conditions in the lumber woods of sleeping on the boughs, and the only thing
they had was beans.
I think today we are facing a serious situation in this country and in this
Province; not only in this Province but in this country.
Recently, in terms of my research, I found out that the top 5 per cent of the
people employed or working within our society, the top 5 per cent of the people
in the top echelon of the corporate ladder, the presidents, the vice-presidents
and all of these people; over the last ten years these people, the people who
made $1 million, $5 million or $10 million a year - hon. members, do you know
what they are making? Mr. Speaker, do you know what they are making after ten
years? These people in the higher echelon, the 5 per cent in the top echelon, do
you know what they are making today? Three times as much! If they were making $1
million ten years ago, do you know what they are making today? They are making
$3 million.
It goes even further as we come a little bit down the top echelon of the
corporate ladder. This is all searched; this is all actual research and actual.
MR. REID: Factual.
MR. BARRETT: Factual.
The next 15 per cent down on the level, the next 15 per cent of the worker of
the employees, and presidents and all these people at the higher echelon. Well,
their income in the last ten years has gone up two times. If they were making
$500,000, or if they were making $200,000 - because that is what the people were
talking about. They are the ones we are talking about. Do you know how much
their income went up in the last ten years? Two times. If they were making
$200,000 a year, they are making $400,000 a year.
Do you want to know the people at the next level, the ordinary working person
in this country and in this Province? Do you know where they are in terms of
their economics? They have not kept pace with inflation in the last ten years. I
think we are in a social deficit here instead of a fiscal deficit, Mr. Speaker.
How are we going to distribute the economic pie in our society? I think that
is the question and debate we should be asking ourselves today because there is
no fairness in our system. We cannot even have a Department of Labour within our
government to represent these people who have not kept up with inflation. It is
nice to know now that at least the officials within the Department of Labour are
involved in the negotiations, but I was wondering where they have been all
along. I have asked questions in this House of the hon. Minister Responsible for
Labour and got no responses.
The other day, to give you a perfect example, I was leaving town. I went to a
Petro Canada station and filled up my car, and the young fella who filled up the
car - a nice young fella, very courteous, very friendly, a real good worker, a
very conscientious individual, a tribute to any company - cleaned the
windshield, checked my oil, and did all the other things. Do you know how much
that young fellow was making? He was making $6 a hour.
I was driving out over the Trans-Canada and I think I was passing along by
Roaches Line and the news came on the radio. There was a report that Petro
Canada had done the best it has ever done in years. Its profits were up
tremendously. They had done great, hundreds of millions of dollars, Petro Canada
made, and there was an interview with the president of the company.
MR. SPEAKER (Fitzgerald): Order, please!
I remind the hon. member that his time has lapsed.
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.
MR. BARRETT: In conclusion, Mr. Speaker, I want to say that they were
very, very happy that they had increased the president's salary and this year
he is going to make $3 million. Mr. Speaker, tell me we do not have a social
deficit in our Province and in our country.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury
Board.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The resolution today is calling upon two things, "...that the House of
Assembly call upon the government to return to meaningful negotiations with
professional negotiators in an attempt to reach a mutually-agreed new
contract."
Secondly it is asking, "...that the House of Assembly call upon the
Premier to restate his commitment to respect the bargaining process and not to
use the legislature to impose an agreement."
They are the two basic things the resolution is addressing today and I want
to say, with reference to the first part, that we are in the process of
meaningful negotiations with the union leaders. I want to say it throughout the
whole process, and at the conclusion on midnight, or after 10 o'clock, before
the deadline that night, Mr. Puddister thanked us for the professional manner in
which negotiations occurred. I must say also the same about him, Mr. Lucas and
the other four people who were sat at the table with us for about three hours
Saturday afternoon and at length - or on Wednesday afternoon, and at length on
Wednesday night, that they conducted themselves in a very professional manner, a
very respectful manner. Across the table there was not an angry word, shouting
or anything of that nature. We respect that, and respect people's opinions and
their view to represent their membership. It is their right. I would not expect
any better than people to put forward the best possible case they have for their
members. If I were in there position, Mr. Speaker, I would do exactly the same
thing.
The negotiations were in a very positive and a very meaningful tone.
Unfortunately, we did not reach a collective agreement. The reason we did not
reach a collective agreement is because, obviously, our positions did not merge
on all points. We started with a very lengthy process, a very lengthy process in
which you have numerous bargaining units, close to twenty, I think, seventeen
overall that met, to my knowledge, out of the whole process. I think there were
eleven NAPE and other bargaining units, the majority being NAPE. We went through
a whole process of trying to come at least to some fundamental agreement within
the respective units. It moved beyond that on the last day and got down to some
of the bigger issues.
They presented to us and we responded, back and forth. The process sometimes
- I am not blaming anybody for that process. Sometimes, I guess, people have
gone through a long process, there is a lot of fatigue, they are working hard,
early mornings, late nights. Sometimes things get said that might be
misinterpreted and might be said out in the public that were not what happened.
I understand that.
We have a responsibility, too, to make sure that we understand things are
presented that way - and the union leaders have. I do not take any offence on
that particular thing. We want to reach, for this Province, what is considered a
reasonable collective agreement. Collective agreements have to be reached in
light of our ability to pay, our ability to prioritize and provide basic
essential service to the Province. We live in difficult financial times.
I said in this House, and everywhere, and alluded to it today, that we have a
serious fiscal situation. The question to the Premier today - that I was aware
of the fiscal situation. I am on record as saying that I believe the $666
million they budgeted last year was not realistic, it was more in the
three-quarters of a million dollar range, $750 million.
What I found very difficult, Mr. Speaker, was when I looked at the financial
situation and saw that over the next four years we are going to be at $989
million, over $1 billion, $1.1 billion and almost $1.2 billion debt. This year
closed out, March 31 this year - the Public Accounts will show this fall, the
Auditor General will release his report by December, or January at the latest -
at a $969 million deficit, and the Budget was $666. That is an horrendous
figure. That is $293 million more debt on our Province than we were budgeted or
informed when the Budget came down.
I have said $750 million. On the path we were on, we would be $1.2 billion
more in debt in one year, incurred in four years' time. From what I said we
were, $750 million, that is $450 million more debt at the end of the next four
years, in one given year. That is what it would be. That is equivalent to over a
20 per cent increase. If you look at a wage and put it in perspective, that is
equivalent to having a 20 per cent increase. If we were that much lower and
maintained the same debt, it would be equivalent to 20 per cent. That is a
horrendous figure. It is a horrendous figure.
There are a lot of things being said out there, but apart from all that is
said, and the rhetoric and whatever goes on in public, we are sincerely
committed to dealing with the issue, and nobody out there, whatever they say, is
going to deter me from the objectivity in reaching a proper deal, representing
the people of this Province. It does not worry me what people say about me. I am
going to focus on the issue at hand, and that is representing the people with
what I consider to be a fair and a responsible deal, maintaining the fiscal
integrity of our Province in the process. If we do not do that, Mr. Speaker, if
we do not do that in three or four or five years' time we will pay a huge
price. Our system will collapse if we do not take corrective action now. The
very people that the Leader of the Opposition referred to, the person with Moody's
- Mr. Hawkman - indicated that we are not in bankruptcy. He said the action the
government took in this Budget is responsible action that will get us on the
path, if we stick to it, where we need to get. That is basically what he said,
and we want to do the responsible thing. We do not want, in the future, a
massive change in public services because we would not take corrective action. A
stitch in time saves nine still has relevance today when we look at dealing with
any particular problem. It is important.
Another part of this that was asked was the collective agreement. Are we
going to legislate people back, not legislate them back? I was asked a question
in the House this week, are we going to legislate, are you planning it? I said
no, it has never been discussed. We have not looked at it. Have you prepared
legislation? I said, no. The minister was asked today, the Minister of Health
and Community Services. She said no, we have not talked about it. We have not
discussed it. We have not asked anyone to prepare anything. I do not know what
people are talking about. Do they want us to do it or do they not? The
resolution says, do not do it. Well, there are times when the Premier of our
Province, our leader, has to take responsible action, whatever that is and
whatever the circumstance.
I will refer to some comments that were made back in the public service
strike on April 4, 2001, when the current Leader of the Opposition was Premier.
I respect his statement that he made at the time; I think it was responsible. He
said: Every one of them understands that at some point if the health and safety
of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians is jeopardized, that at some point we might
need them back, we might have to legislate, but we are not contemplating it
today. That is a logical, responsible statement that he made when he was Premier
of the Province.
It is a lot easier to oppose than to govern, and I have said it in
Opposition. It is easy to be in Opposition. The Premier will have to make, and
the Cabinet will have to make, a responsible statement on behalf of the
Province. We are not discussing it, we are not contemplating it, and I hope it
never comes to deal with that. The media asked me at a news conference, one in
the past - I hold one every day to update them on things, just about every day
except Sunday past - and I have indicated it has not been in our plans. We are
not even entertaining it.
The former Premier said, in another response: Premier Roger Grimes said he
will consider using legislation to get some striking workers back to their jobs
if the health care systems show signs they cannot cope.
The Member for Cartwright-L'anse au Clair asked the Health Minister today -
she is saying the system is out there and they are not getting service. Are they
asking us to legislate them back because they are not getting service? And a
resolution follows it, right on its heels, do not legislate back.
Where are we on the particular issue, Mr. Speaker? I am confused, but what
this government does will be responsible on behalf of the people we represent,
and we take that responsibility very, very seriously.
We have a deficit that is out of control. Just to give an example: Under our
proposal that we laid out in our Budget, in 2007-2008, our deficit will get
down, just come below what it was in 2002 if we follow the path we are on. In
other words, six years later we will get our deficit down to where it was six
years previous. We are fighting to get it down so we can preserve the integrity
of services that are out there today.
We have $840 million projected in this particular Budget as a deficit. Just
on a cash basis, the cash component alone, $362 million. Never before in our
history did we budget any more than one hundred on a current account basis, and
it is over two hundred on a current account, not counting our total capital
cost. Never in our history did we end up with - I should say end up with, not
budget - more than about $100 million on current account. We have an
astronomical number, more than double, in our history than we ever projected. We
have a very, very serious fiscal situation and the times dictate what you can
do.
We would love to be in a position where we could settle with the highest
increases, provide all kinds of basic services. Nobody takes pleasure in doing
things that the public do not want. That does not give us any pleasure; it does
not give me any pleasure. I am going to do what is responsible, while I am here.
While labour unrest is occurring and there are people out on strike, I would
like to thank the public for their support in dealing with this under stressful
times in trying to access public services.
People are prevented from getting certain services they take for granted,
whether it is a renewal of a registration or whatever the case may be. There are
things that cause some hardships to the public. We understand that, and we do
not expect during this to have - essential services are in place for the health
and safety and security of people. That is why essential service agreements are
put in place, and it is an obligation on government to act and to protect those
basic, vital services that everybody should have: health, safety and security.
They are the most fundamental services that we can provide to anybody in our
Province.
The people who are working lengthy hours, difficult conditions, the managers,
even the non-bargaining people who are not managers in the system, and even the
bargaining unit people who are there under the essential services agreements,
are working today with it, and working co-operatively I might add. There have
been little minor glitches and things that develop, and there has been fair
co-operation overall from the union in dealing with those glitches. I hear of
them every day. I deal with numerous ones of these, as they come to my
attention. I do not personally deal with them. There are staff who deal with
them and they carry on relationships to deal with it.
We have a responsibility. We are going to act in the best interest of the
people of our Province. We are going to act responsibly during this strike and
hopefully get a resolution to it. When it is over - and strikes all end - we
have to go on with the job of government, to give responsible government,
efficient government, and we are going to bring out efficiencies in government
so we can maintain services that are out there. If we do not pull back the
inefficiencies in government, we are robbing the people of a future use of those
services because of that. We are going to do that because it is the right thing
to do. We want to protect people out on the lines, on the front lines of our
Province. Our goal is to give the best possibe service with the least management
system in between to deliver that service effectively. That should be the goal
of any government.
A government's job is not to create jobs; it is to give services and to
employ people to give those services. We respect people who have jobs in the
public service, and we are going to be as accommodating as we possibility can in
dealing with any fallout from people who may be displaced from the workplace.
We were up front and we gave numbers to people. We listed numbers in the
Budget that we hoped to achieve. I notified union leaders on Saturday before the
Budget, called them in and explained to them how many workers were involved. I
said: 400 people bargaining, 300 non-bargaining people, 700, and there is a
process through attrition of over 600 over that period, and we hope people will
be accommodated.
We have worked with the Public Service Commission to put back some integrity
into that process, that we are going to look at a matching process to be able to
deal with this effectively. There are responsibilities we have. We are concerned
about workers. We are concerned about any body losing a job. The question today
- we are concerned about the impact it has on business, on the economy, on
taxes, on revenue, on access to services.
We are all human. Every single one of us are human and understand what the
basic necessities of life are, and what you do on an ongoing basis. We are going
to do what is responsible. I am not going to support a resolution that ties the
hands of government to act responsibly. It is not the prudent thing to do. The
former Premier and the Leader of the Opposition did not consider it the prudent
thing to do, and I respect that and I stand and say he was correct in doing
that. He had to do what he had to do when he was in the position our Premier is
in today and that is what has to occur. I am not going to say that
"...return to..." because we have returned to meaningful negotiations.
It said to "...professional negotiators...". We have excellent
negotiators. The chief negotiator who represents us - of course, as President of
Treasury Board, I guess, if you want to take it literally. I am the chief
negotiator. When I refer to chief negotiator, it is the head of the team that I
have out there on our behalf to deal with people there. We are doing that
professionally. I haven't heard any complaints from anybody about these
individuals who are there dealing professionally. I haven't had any complaints
back from anybody about the negotiators who are sat at the table with NAPE or
CUPE, or any of the people at the bargaining table. It is done in a respectful
manner. It will continue that way, Mr. Speaker -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. SULLIVAN: - and we will continue to do what is right for the people
of our Province.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I am pleased today to stand in this House and support my colleague, the
Member for Bellevue, on the resolution that has been read into the Order Paper
today.
As other speakers have said, we are in the midst of a very serious strike on
our hands. You know, I was thinking of a saying that I have lived with all of my
life. It was a saying that I think I grew up with, and that was: The truth will
always set you free. The truth will always set you free, but I would say that
the truth has been the greatest casualty of the new government. The truth has
been the greatest casualty of the new government.
I am proud to stand here today and say that I was the first minister in ten
years to be the Minister of a Department of Labour. The last minister to be a
Minister of the Department of Labour is currently now the Leader of the
Opposition. I must congratulate him, when he was our Premier of the former
Administration he had foresight enough to give credence to how important a
Department of Labour would be. It was under his Administration that a new
Department of Labour came into being, and I was appointed the first Minister of
the Department of Labour in 2001. I had that privilege then of working with
business, government and labour. We rose that relationship to a whole new level
while I was part of that Administration, and my colleague, the Member for
Bellevue, who spoke just then a few minutes ago.
We realize that in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, when we are
trying to attract big projects to our Province and, indeed, look after the
projects that we have and the business that we have in this Province, that we
need a better relationship between business, government and labour. It is easy
to see, Mr. Speaker, that when you have a good relationship, a good foundation
of business, government and labour, we are all singing out of the song book and
the end results should be for the good of all.
What are we seeing here with this new government? I think if you look back,
the seeds of mistrust were sown. The seeds of mistrust were sown a few months
back. I think they have multiplied by the day. That is the reason why we are in
the position we are in today, facing down one of the biggest strikes in our
history.
The Finance Minister got on his feet a few moments ago and talked about the
meeting he had with union leaders prior to the Budget the Saturday before. It is
too bad that he and his Premier did not have a meeting with the union leaders
before January 5, because that is when the seeds of mistrust were sown. There
was no consultation at that point, none whatsoever. You could almost bring it
back to November when he wanted to get an external audit of the Province's
books. That audit turned out to be a phoney, bogus report done by a political
person, Michael Gourley, who had ties to the political party in Ontario. One of
the Terms of Reference was that the background was supposed to be checked on the
person doing the report. I guess it was checked because they got the right
person. They got a political connection, a Tory from Ontario who was kicked out
of Ernie Eves' government with a settlement of $1 million.
That bogus report painted the picture of the Province way worse than it is.
They took the figures from the Department of Finance and Treasury Board and
added on an unnecessary amount of $220 million, and they added on employee
benefits that will not be paid out for years to come in the future. They ended
up with a ballooned deficit just so they could come across with the agenda we
are hearing today. That agenda, I can tell you, is not a pretty one. That is
what we are hearing today and that was what caused the mistrust they are now
hearing from unions and workers across this Province.
When the Finance Minister started out on January 5, in his news conference,
he had Michael Gourley sit to the news conference table with him. They lashed
out and talked about the situation in the Province. They fabricated the report.
They did everything but say that they did not know what was going on until they
got to be the government. Here the Minister of Finance sits next to the Auditor
General. He had all that input and he had every piece of information that was
there. So that is nothing but rubbish, the highest kind.
The Premier got on television January 5 in his State of the Union Address to
the Province. He blurted out that there was going to be a wage freeze without
ever calling in the union heads and giving them any kind of heads up on what was
going to happen. Ask for their input: What could we do in this situation? No
sir, he was going to come out and be the hero, the businessman, the expert. I am
going to chop wages and I am going to freeze wages. That was his plan. No
cooperation, just confrontation. That is all he wanted. No cooperation.
Well, do you know something? That snowballed. That got out of control,
because the next group he picked on were the poor seniors, the pensioners when
he wanted to clawback the indexing they got in the last contract of $5 a month.
Those seniors were retired then on a wage freeze. They had been around for ten
years under Clyde Wells' wage freeze, and they retired on a wage freeze. It
was seven years before they even got that little 1 per cent of indexing and the
new Premier of our Province wanted to claw that back at $5 a month, but he could
not do it. He could not do it because there was too much public pressure which
brought him to his knees and he had to haul in his horns and say he was going to
take it off the table. That is what he did.
Now, why is there any reason to trust this government? He came out with a
wage freeze that unions and workers knew nothing about. First he said there was
going to be a wage freeze but he did not say how long the wage freeze was going
to last. Then he got caught red-handed. He walked into a crowd and said: Oh, by
the way, that wage freeze is on for two years. Yes sir, two years, that will do
it. Then he got caught again, because then he came across in his election
propaganda when he said: There will be no layoffs in the public service. We will
not reduce the public service by 25 per cent, contrary to allegations by our
political opponents. Now, what happened there? What happened with that Blue Book
promise? By golly, we just learned that there are going to be 4,000 layoffs.
But, do you know something? Four thousand layoffs is not that bad because do you
know why? The Premier said they are not going to be massive layoffs. Now, that
is the cute legal language that the Premier uses. There is not going to be
massive layoffs. See, that is the difference in layoffs and massive layoffs.
After that, the Finance Minister was running around and saying that they are
really busy and so on. They will not have their Budget until May. No Budget
until May. I thought that was unusual, no Budget until May. But, do you know
what? There was a series of intimidation tactics that came prior to the strike.
The RNC got their money for riot equipment, and they did their parade in front
of a television camera. That was intimidation. Now, on the eve of a strike, the
Finance Minister brought down his Budget, another form of intimidation, because
he said he was going to wait until May. That is what the Finance Minister said
he was going to do, and he deliberately painted the picture - he had the
Government House Leader here in the House of Assembly running around like
someone with their head cut off - they had to get that legislation passed by the
end of March. He had to get the legislation passed by the end of March for the
students, the Student Loan Assistance Act. That is what he had to do. All of a
sudden, when the Budget was coming down, he ran in and said: No, scratch that
date. I have to get it done by the twenty-ninth, and he was under considerable
pressure because the Budget contained a ballooned deficit that would include
those phony figures from the Student Loan Act.
Yesterday, I had a young woman call me wanting to make a payment on her
student loan. Do you think she could make a payment on her student loan at the
bank? No, siree. He was bursting all barrels trying to get that legislation
passed by the end of the month because it was going to be a wonderful thing for
students. Do you know what? There was no benefit, no difference, for students.
They still had to pay their loan, but what is unfortunate about it today, he
made this legislation go through unnecessarily so he could pad the books,
increase the deficit, and now students are out there today - this is April 7 -
and they cannot even go to a chartered bank and make their loan payment because
there is absolutely nothing in place for students to go out and make their loan
payments.
So there has been a series, one after the other, of innuendo, intimidation
and mistrust from start to finish, and if the people opposite are having trouble
getting a settlement, I would ask them to review what happened over the past two
or three months.
What kind of a message is that sending to the nurses who are out there?
Nurses are out there, and their contract is going to be up in June. Teachers are
out there, and their contract is going to be up in August. Now, is this the kind
of relationship the new government are going to have with the other members of
our public sector? I can tell you that they have definitely started out on the
wrong foot. What kind of trust, what kind of relationship, can any member of the
public service have with this government? I do not think there is any trust
there, and they have to do a lot of things in the next few months to improve
their image, I can tell you.
The Finance Minister stands in his place and talks about the deficit and, do
you know something? He conveniently picks the numbers, because he talks about
cash deficits in his Budget and today he hops on his feet and talks about
accrual deficits that he can never pay off until the cows come home. That is
about the size of it. So, he conveniently picks his figures.
I can tell you one thing: Based on the Budget they have here this time, they
have absolutely no confidence in growing the economy. They have done everything
they could do to put a wet blanket over it and forget about it, because they
haven't had anything in this Budget that gives any reason that they are going
to grow the economy.
I can tell you another thing: Moody's do not give out A ratings needlessly
and recklessly. Moody's do not do that. I was proud to be part of a government
that had the highest credit rating of any other government in the history of
this Province, and we did not get there by reckless spending. We did not get
there by reckless spending. We got there by doing all the right things, and we
got the best credit rating in our history. We had the most people working, we
had a buoyant economy, and we had eliminated out-migration.
What have we seen from this government? Doom and gloom and a feeling of
mistrust. We witnessed that in our public galleries today when the people of
this Province came into the public House and they could not take it any longer -
the mistrust, the deceit and the maneuvering and the legalese in order to avoid
giving a straight answer and letting the people know what is really happening.
What we are asking for in this House today is that the people who are now
elected to be the government of this Province, the people who are elected to be
the government of this Province, do what they are supposed to be, be elected. If
they got a majority vote on October 21, let them do what they are supposed to
do, and that means going back to the bargaining table and acting responsibly and
acting like they should act. All we have seen in the past two or three weeks,
prior to the strike and even now, has been nothing but name-calling and pushing
the blame on somebody else. The Finance Minister conveniently hides all the time
behind the so-called deficit. What he neglects to tell to the people of this
Province, there was another report done. There was another report done and it
was done by Mr. Hugh Mackenzie, and it was a very reputable report. It said in
that report that the statements that were made by PricewaterhouseCoopers says
that neither the public spending nor the public sector employees compensation
can legitimately be said to have caused the Province's current fiscal
situation. It says: Newfoundland and Labrador does, indeed, face a fiscal
problem although by no means as significant as that forecast in the PWC report.
What this new government has done, it has painted the gloomiest picture of
all for the people of this Province without any thought to what it is doing to
people. They have come out with half statements. They have given notice of
hospital integration. They have given notice of consolidation of school boards,
closures of HRE offices, and they have not -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I remind the hon. member that her time - unlike yesterday, she is on limited
time and it has now expired.
MS THISTLE: By leave, just a moment or two? Am I finished?
MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?
MS THISTLE: No by leave?
MR. SPEAKER: Does the member have leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: Yes.
MR. SPEAKER: Leave granted.
MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I know the members opposite don't want to hear what I am saying because the
truth hurts. I would say to you, get at the job at hand and get a settlement for
the people who are out there on strike today and do the job that you were
elected to do.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I, too, Mr. Speaker, would like to participate, for a few minutes, on this
important subject matter. We are obviously dealing with an issue presently
before the people of the Province. It is a very serious issue and one that is
not exclusive to members opposite in this Chamber as an issue of concern and a
matter of great importance. I say, Mr. Speaker, that members on both sides of
this hon. House share, and jointly share, in the genuine concern and well-being
of the issue that is now confronting the population of Newfoundland and
Labrador.
As one government member, and I feel I can say this on behalf of all members,
in fact, Mr. Speaker, I feel I can say this on behalf of all Newfoundlanders and
Labradorians, that we hope that the collective bargaining process is not only
successful but is successful in very short order. When that is arrived at and
when we have a resolution to this ongoing dispute, Mr. Speaker, when this
dispute is concluded and when we can say that the collective bargaining process
has been successful and when there is a resolution to all outstanding issues, at
that time we can all, in our Province, say that all the people of Newfoundland
and Labrador are winners.
Obviously, a resolution, an agreement, by its very nature, implies that the
parties to the dispute have come to realize that an agreement was appropriate at
that particular time. Government will have been satisfied. Our union leaders and
the membership of our unions that are presently on strike will be able to say,
Mr. Speaker, that there is agreement and satisfaction and accord once a dispute
is resolved. In addition to that, Mr. Speaker, ultimately the people of
Newfoundland and Labrador, all of the residents of Newfoundland and Labrador,
can share in and can join in the fact that the resolution is at hand and,
therefore, they too can celebrate that this outstanding dispute is once and for
all concluded.
Mr. Speaker, that is what we are all striving for. It is not exclusive to
members opposite. Believe me, Mr. Speaker, we on this side of the House, all of
us in this hon. Chamber, want to reach a mutually agreed upon contract and
resolution to a dispute that right now is difficult. It is difficult on all
parties. There are no winners, as we speak, Mr. Speaker. All the people of the
Province, as represented by all forty-eight members in the House of Assembly,
want to see an expeditious conclusion and resolution to this outstanding
dispute.
Mr. Speaker, let's hope that as this process is ongoing today, and let's
hope as the union has submitted its offer today and a counter-offer is being
returned to the union leadership, let's hope that process will be successful,
or at least will be a part of the road to success in hopefully, what we can all
say in this Province, will be a timely and successful resolution to this
outstanding issue.
Mr. Speaker, obviously in the Department of Education, the department that I
represent, we are monitoring very closely what is happening within our education
system. I can say, Mr. Speaker, and I can say this with some pride, that the
parties who are involved on a day-to-day basis in the maintaining and the
operations of our schools are cooperating with one another to ensure that the
disruptions - and the disruptions in our K to 12 systems are minimal.
I want to recognize the good work of our school boards. I want to recognize
the good work of the governing body, the Newfoundland and Labrador School Boards'
Association. I want to recognize, Mr. Speaker, the good work - and at times -
the intervention of the Newfoundland and Labrador Teachers' Association. I
want to recognize officials in my own department who are in contact with these
very individuals on a day-to-day basis to monitor what is taking place in our
school system, to ensure, Mr. Speaker, that disruptions are minimal, to ensure
that delays are minimal and to ensure that the security and the safety of our
students - whether they are five or six, in Kindergarten or Grade 1, or
seventeen or eighteen in Level II or Level III, to ensure that their safety and
that security is intact.
Ultimately, Mr. Speaker, it appears to me that despite a difficult situation
that we now face in the Province, despite that, despite that reality, the
agencies, the departments, the individuals, the essential employees, the board
representatives, all parties are working towards attempting to protect the
security and safety of our students. I congratulate all parties in that regard,
Mr. Speaker, because our schools, as we speak today - and this is now the
beginning of what, the second week -
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. OTTENHEIMER: Pretty soon, the beginning of the second week of this
work disruption. I can say that our schools are open. Yes, we have had some
minimal delays, Mr. Speaker. Yes, we have had some difficulties - very minimally
- where a school bus may have had some difficulty in parking a bus, for example,
on a school parking lot. There has been that sort of minimal disruption. But, I
can say that our schools are open and that is a tribute to all parties who are
prepared to work within, what we can only describe as, a difficult work
environment at the present time.
At the post- secondary level, Mr. Speaker, all campuses of the College of the
North Atlantic are open. Again, there have been some minor disruptions. Again,
Mr. Speaker, from time to time we have heard certain circumstances where there
have been delays and where there may have been some minimal difficulty in
crossing a picket line but our colleges are open, our campuses are open and the
post-secondary system continues to operate on what can only be described as a
close to normal day-to-day work environment.
Mr. Speaker, that I believe is a tribute to those in our communities
throughout Newfoundland and Labrador who, despite the difficult circumstances in
which we now find ourselves in on a day-to-day basis, despite that reality,
there is an ultimate willingness by parties in the educational milieu to ensure
that there is protection for our students, there is security for our students
and the day-to-day educational experiences continues, whether it is at the
Kindergarten to Level III level or the post-secondary level throughout the
Province.
I feel it is important, Mr. Speaker, that that information be shared with the
people of the Province. I admit and acknowledge there are some delays. There are
some inconveniences but that, unfortunately, has to be anticipated and expected.
Let's hope, Mr. Speaker - because really I want to get back to my beginning
comment. Let's hope, Mr. Speaker, that through a genuine attempt by all
parties who are participating in the collective bargaining process, let's hope
that this uncertainty on a day-to-day basis will end very quickly. Let's hope
that through genuine efforts by parties on both sides, we can see an expeditious
resolution to this difficult situation because when that happens, Mr. Speaker,
it is not only the unions and their membership and government who will be able
to say with a degree of satisfaction that the matter is resolved, but
ultimately, Mr. Speaker, it is every single resident of the Province of
Newfoundland and Labrador for whom our public servants serve. I think it is fair
to say and equal to say, Mr. Speaker, for whom our government serves.
Ultimately, when the parties to this dispute can enter into an arrangement
that is agreed upon and therefore binding, ultimately the potential winners are
the residents of Newfoundland and Labrador. That is what we are striving
towards, Mr. Speaker, and that is what we are seeking. We certainly hope that
through the good efforts of all individuals who are clearly genuine and
well-meaning and well-intentioned to have an expeditious resolution, hopefully
the people of this Province can say, in very short order, that it has concluded
and, to put it simply, Mr. Speaker, lets get on with our lives.
Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.
MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
It gives me great pleasure to rise today and take
part in the debate that is
on the motion, moved by the Member for Bellevue, which addresses a very serious
situation, Mr. Speaker, and a very serious issue.
The mover of the motion talked about the importance of a Department of
Labour. I want to remind the minister, that as Minister of Labour it is the only
minister in this government that working people have to ensure that their rights
are protected. Lots of other organizations in this Province have a multitude of
ministers responsible for areas that they deal with, but for working people in
this Province, the Minister of Labour is their sole representative in this
Cabinet.
The Member for Bellevue in this opening remarks, Mr. Speaker, raised some
good points. One of the things that he raised, he talked about a social deficit.
Well, that is quite true, because there is a total social deficit, not only in
this Province, but in this country as well. He quoted some figures about
corporations and CEOs. Another figure that I can put forward is that more an 90
per cent of the wealth in this country today, and for the longest time, has been
controlled and is controlled by less than 10 per cent of the people. A very
inequitable distribution of wealth that leads to situations like we have today,
because that wealth is created on the backs of working people and by inadequate
policies of governments throughout the years. That wealth, Mr. Speaker, in this
Province, in our own particular case, is a lack of our ability to get what we
deserve and what we should be getting from our natural resources, in terms of
our offshore oil, in terms of Voisey's Bay, in terms of other developments,
like Churchill Falls, and other natural resource developments that we have which
we are not getting the benefit from. But there are many people in New York, in
Las Angeles, in London who are getting the benefit, and that is not right and
that has led to a large part of the problem that we experience in this Province
and in this country today.
There was some reference to George Bush, when we talk about today's labour
relations situation we have here and how it sort of intertwines with that. Well,
Mr. Speaker, we can look at Ronald Regan and his response to the air traffic
controllers' strike, when he fired 25,000 air traffic controllers in one shot.
Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Finance, when he was talking on this resolution,
talked about the deficit of the Province and the hard financial position that we
find ourselves in here today. I want to remind the Minister of Finance that the
financial crunch that he was referring to has already been met at the
negotiating table. Union members in this Province, public sector workers in this
Province have agreed to give up two years without any wage increase so that this
government can put the plans into action that they promised during the last
provincial election, and that should be adequate time to get their financial
house in order, so that people of the Province can benefit. If they had faith,
if they had any conviction in what they were saying, then that two-year period
should have been satisfactory.
This strike is about much more than that, Mr. Speaker. It is about much more
than finances, as we have seen in recent days. We have 20,000 public service
employees on strike and every single aspect of our life is affected by that.
There is hardly one thing that a person can mention that has not been affected
by this strike, and today's episode, the outburst that we have seen in the
gallery today, is a sign of things to come if this strike does not end soon.
Today is the turning point, in my opinion, in this strike. Today, members who
are on the picket line are taking a different look at what they are facing in
trying to deal with this government and, I tell you, Mr. Speaker, things will
not be nice in the days and weeks to come if a resolve is not met soon.
Talking about strikes, Mr. Speaker, it is a subject that I know a little
about because I have been through a number of strikes myself, anywhere from a
two-hour period to a four-month period. I have been on probably more strikes -
not probably - I have been on more strikes than anybody else in this House of
Assembly. There is no question about that, unless they worked in Labrador during
the 1970s and 1980s.
I can tell you, Madam Speaker, that when workers are on strike for a prolong
period, feelings get heated, particularly when they are being forced into a
strike that they did not want in the first place. This all started on January 5,
when the Premier of the Province clearly fired a shot across the bow of the
union. That was when things started to do downhill.
Last week, the things that we saw happen on the picket line with the Premier
of the Province and the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board
going directly to the workers is a direct contravention of the labour laws of
this Province. It is not something that is acceptable and it certainly does not
lead to the resolution of a dispute. As a matter of fact, it entrenches people
in their positions because that is not the right thing to do and it is not what
should be done by any Premier or any minister of this government. Now the
Premier's remarks themselves, too, are not doing anything to quell the
situation.
People in Labrador, people in Burgeo, people in Corner Brook, Grand Falls,
Marystown, all across this Province, were threatened by an extended strike by
the Premier if certain things happened to family members of his caucus, whether
or not they had anything to do with it. That is not appropriate action by this
government either.
The two-tier benefit that is proposed by government is an old method used by
companies for many, many years to divide and conquer the membership, but it is a
losing battle. It is a losing battle because union members today are educated
enough; they know what the repercussions of that lead to in the future and they
are not about to go down that road from which there is no return.
Madam Speaker, this resolution today talks about and calls upon government
not to introduce back-to-work legislation. Madam Speaker, I say to this
government that they can do what they like. They have the numbers, they have the
majority in this House, and they can do pretty much as they please, but one
thing they cannot do, one thing they cannot do, is they cannot legislate good
will. They cannot legislate co-operation. They cannot legislate peace and
harmony in the work place and, most importantly, they cannot legislate away the
bitter feelings that are created when you have employees on the picket line who
want to be at work but are being for forced to stay on the streets.
None of these things can they legislate, Madam Speaker, and I think that
government would be wise to pay close attention to that, because eventually, one
way or the other, this strike will be over, people will be returning to work,
and this government will then need the co-operation and good will of all the
employees who are returning. For them to do that, legislation will not be
conducive to having that happen.
Madam Speaker, people involved in this dispute have been caught up in recent
weeks, in the recent week that the strike has taken place, and there has been
some confusion, and that confusion has been fuelled and played on by the
government, but I believe that the vast majority of union members in this
Province trust the people they have elected to represent them at the negotiating
table.
This is not about personalities, or it should not be. We have heard the names
of Leo Puddister with NAPE, and with CUPE, Wayne Lucas, but let us not forget
that this is not between Wayne Lucas, Leo Puddister and government negotiators.
At the hotel here in this city they have seventy to eighty to ninety negotiators
representing people from all around this Province, and that is who they are
putting their trust in. That is who they have elected to represent them. They
did not elect the Premier or the Minister of Finance or anyone else to represent
them in this negotiation, and the people they elected will do right by them.
They have always done right, and there is no reason to suspect that they will
not this time.
Madam Speaker, I would say to government to very carefully weigh their
options. I would encourage them to bring a resolve to this dispute, because in
the end, while the workers may lose temporarily, the government is going to be
the big loser in the long run. If they can do anything, today or tomorrow, prior
to this Easter weekend, they should put all their efforts and resources into
bringing an end to this dispute, but not by way of legislation, Madam Speaker.
That won't work, that will not create any situation that will be conducive to
or improve the work environment within the offices of government, within the
schools around the Province, the school boards, the health care facilities or
anywhere else. They have to use their imaginations, they have to be creative and
they have to find a way to end this dispute. The responsibility for the most
part, Madam Speaker, is entirely on the shoulders of this government.
Madam Speaker, I will conclude my remarks by saying this: I am empathizing
with them, I am talking to people on the picket lines each and every day. They
want to return to work. What they are looking for from this government, Madam
Speaker, is to be able to do that in a way that adds dignity and respect to them
as workers, to their collective agreements, to their unions as institutions and
most of all to their families.
With that, Madam Speaker, I will conclude my remarks and caution the
government that, if they decide, if they choose, to use this Legislature to get
their own way in this strike, they will pay a heavy price for it in the weeks
and months to come.
Thank you.
MR. HARRIS: Hear, hear!
MADAM SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Madam Speaker.
Again, I have no intention of prolonging the debate, other than to spend a
few minutes with respect to the Private Member's Motion that calls upon the
government to do a couple of things: One being to return to meaningful
negotiations in an attempt to reach a mutually agreed upon new contract.
I do understand, and I did listen intently to the presentation and comments
made by the Minister of Finance and the President of Treasury Board, that they
feel that is what they are doing now. Unfortunately, a little late, a week into
a strike, when it probably should have been done a couple of months ago when
there was no sign of it. In any event, I would take it that means he is saying,
on behalf of government, they plan to vote for that particular part of the
resolution because they are already doing it. It wouldn't make a lot of sense
to me, in terms of following the logic, that if you are saying that you are
already doing that, as the government, therefore you would vote against it. I
can't imagine why the government would not support the first part of the
resolution, that we would return to meaningful negotiations.
I do believe that the record of the House of Assembly, Hansard, would show,
Madam Speaker, that the President of Treasury Board, the chief negotiator, has
said they feel they are doing that. Therefore, I expect that when the vote is
called within the next hour, that we would see the government standing to
support that part of the resolution. The second part of it might be a little
different, and we will find out when the vote is held.
It is on that basis, Madam Speaker, that I would like to talk a little bit,
for a few minutes, about the history of it. The problem that we have that leaves
us in a circumstance today with 20,000 public employees forced into the streets
against their will - nobody wants to be out there, make that clear. I think
every one of them has said that they would rather not be on strike but they feel
they were left with no choice. The problem dates back to some issues that we
have addressed here in the House over the last couple of weeks. One being first
and foremost the Premier's address and speech to the NAPE convention when he
was Leader of the Opposition, where he talked about mutual respect and integrity
for the bargaining process, the promise to consult. If he ever came across a
circumstance that was other than what he thought, he would consult with the
unions if it involved them so that they could work out a meaningful resolution
together.
That was the tone and tenor of the speech that they took at face value and
said: This is a good man. This is a man we can trust. As a matter of fact, this
is a man that we will likely vote for - and the record shows that they did,
including their president, who voted for him because they believed him. They
believed what he said. He said it with such sincerity that they did believe him.
Following that, there was an issue as well that came up during the election,
in the Blue Book, in the platform, talking about reducing the size of the public
service through attrition, that there might be an opportunity to reduce the
public service by up to 25 per cent. Madam Speaker, the leader of the party
then, who was the Opposition Leader, the Premier today, did not highlight that
in any of their documents - it was in there - but when we discovered it, as the
government, and when the NDP discovered it, we raised concerns to the people of
the Province suggesting that you had better be careful because this group is
saying in their platform that if they get elected they see an opportunity to
actually downsize the public service, and that the opportunity is as big as 25
per cent, because 25 per cent of the people might be going to retire, are going
to retire, in the next few years, and that would leave an opportunity.
We suggested that, and in response to it the now Premier took out full-page
ads. We said it would be attrition or by layoff. The ads were put out. Then they
were focused, because he wanted people not to talk about the possibility of job
loss. He wanted to talk about setting the record straight, growing job
opportunities and growing the economy, to the point, Madam Speaker, that there
was an actual - these ads appeared all over Newfoundland and Labrador saying: If
we form the government, there will be no layoffs in the public service.
Madam Speaker, people believed that because now that it was profiled in the
election they received a mandate. Today he is trying to say: We received a
mandate. We told people we were going to downsize the public service. What they
did when it was profiled, Madam Speaker, was to say: We promise no layoffs.
They have seen him wiggle since then about - oh, no, I said no massive
layoffs. Well, I guess maybe the printer made a mistake because the word massive
is not in here. It says, no layoffs - period.
So what you have, Madam Speaker, is this: You have a circumstance where these
people who trusted and believed the then Leader of the Opposition, the now
Premier, took him at face value on these issues and then what did they find? On
January 5 - he was answering questions in the Legislature today saying - he
admitted that he had made commitments that he is now not honouring. He admitted
it today.
With respect to the circumstance of the hospital in Grand Bank, he reverted
to his real self and showed that, if anybody dared say anything, he attacks the
person, because, when asked a serious question about: Did you make the
commitment in Grand Bank - which he absolutely did, and he admitted that he did
- he said: Well, back then I did not know the extent of the finances. I did not
know the problem.
When he was asked: Did you just forget to qualify it and say, well, what I
really meant to say was that we will build the hospital if we have the money -
because he forgot to say that, just like he forgot to put the word massive in
the ads. There is the problem with the circumstance, Madam Speaker.
MADAM SPEAKER: Order, please!
I remind the hon. member that he may hold notes in his hands but he may not
use papers or any other exhibit with his remarks.
Thank you.
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Madam Speaker.
The circumstance today was, when asked a serious question: Well, did you just
forget to add the words? Did you just forget to qualify the statement and say,
well, we promise to build the facility unless I find out we do not have the
money? None of that second part was in it. When asked that question - now he
goes on the attack - he says: Oh, did the member know when she was running that
she was going to be thinking about running federally today? What does that have
to do with anything? It shows the nature of the beast that is causing the
problem, Madam Speaker.
Anyone who dares say anything in Opposition to the Premier of the Province
today can rest assured that they will be personally attacked by him. We saw it
in this Legislature today, and that is what is causing the biggest problem in
the negotiations, because the second part of it is another commitment that he
made which has been reaffirmed in this Legislature by the Government House
Leader, the Minister of Natural Resources. It says: Will the House now ask the
government to call upon the Premier to restate his commitment to respect the
bargaining process and to not use the Legislature to impose an agreement?
Because that is what he said. That is what they believed he meant. Last week, he
said: Well, I will use the Legislature if I have to. I do not want to.
That is not what he said to NAPE either. He did not go down to the NAPE
convention and say: I will only use the Legislature if I have to. So, I do not
expect they will vote for that one today because they will probably use the
Premier's excuse that: Well, the circumstance is different than I thought.
There is no reason not to vote for the first one, but I think they will vote
against the second one for sure and break another commitment. We are seeing a
consistent pattern. It is just a matter of breaking the commitment and finding
an excuse, finding a hook to hang your hat on so you can try to explain to
people why you did not really mean what you said to them when you wanted them to
vote for you.
Madam Speaker, there are circumstances today where we talk about mutual
respect and integrity. Instead of that, you have a Premier out telling people
they can stay out until the cows come home. You can see him talking about the
President of the Federation of Labour for Newfoundland and Labrador, who is out
there trying to be helpful. He happens to disagree with the Premier, but he is
trying to be helpful and the Premier is on television saying, he is two-faced,
because he is saying