VOL. NO. 1 PRELIMINARY UNEDITED TRANSCRIPT HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR THE PERIOD 3:00 p.m. - 6:00 p.m. TUESDAY, MAY 18, 1982 NO. 7

May 18, 1982 The House met at 3:00 P.M. Mr. Speaker in the Chair. Tape No. 308 MR. SPEAKER (Russell): Order, please~ STATEMENTS BY MINISTERS: NM - l MR. SPEAKER: MR. MARSHALL: The hon. President of the Council. Mr. Speaker, I have two statements to make • 'l'he first one relates to a letter and a Telex I have today forwarded to the han. Marc Lalonde, the Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources. During the meetings on Friday there was a brief reference made by Mr. Lalonde with respect to the proposed legislation, legislation that is in the House of Commons now, that has not been fully enacted.

As we know it has passed second reading and it has been committed to the committe~ ! for study with respect to the provision of the corridor. Mr. Lalonde enquired in what I thought was a - it sort of raised my eyebrows quite a bit quite frankly as to whether or not the Government of this Province really supported the provision of the corridor, I responded of course immediately in the affirmative because ·this is a matter of record. I \oll:Onte him today, Mr.

Speaker, because of that commcnt,because of this little part of the discussion that we had on Friday, because quite frankly I do not know myself as to whe ·tner: or not, I am not saying there is, but I do not know whether there is any inclination, or that indicates any intention upon the federal government that it may not proceed with the present legislation that is there, in other words may not bring it to the point of enacting. If this occurred of course it would be a travesty for Newfoundland so in order tu put the record straight I have written Mr.

Lalonde 1he following letter which went to him by Telex today and was forwarded by mail as well. 665

May 18, 1982 Tape No . 308 Nt-1 - 2 MR . MARSHALL : "This letter is written concerning your reference in our meeting of Friday to legislation now before the House of Commons giving the right to transmit electricity generated in one Province through another . "In your conversation you questioned support of the Newfoundland Government for this measure in view of the fact that you indicated you had heard no support from this Province for it . It is very difficult to understand how you could be ~~der such an impression. The 666

May 18,19 82 Tape No. 309 ah-1 MH .MAR SHALL: support of the Government of Newfoundland ~nri Labrador for this measure is a matter of record. Indeed, it was the result of consistent pressure from Newfoundland that the issue was kept constantly before the federal authorities. This government,through the Premier and various m:j_nisters , has indicated on many occasions its pleasure for this measure. It is our opinion, it is long overdue and recognizes a right of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador which ought to have been recognized years ago.

The failure to have done so is depriving the people of this Province of in excess of $500 millions of dollars a year from the Upper Churchill. ''Therefore, there should be no doubt in your mind that this Province strongly supports the legislation. "We have some concern that your statements and the lobbies from the Province of Quebec, together with the other vested interests, might result in the Bill being withdrawn or its enactment delayed. This would be a tragedy for the people of our Province and further prevent realization of their legitimate aim of equality with other Canadians.

"I am writing this letter to allay any doubt in your mind that the government of this Province supports strongly the Bill to enable a power corridor to be established. Indeed, the people of this Province expect this Bill to be enacted so that they can attain some measure of equality with other Canadians. ••On the matter of the offshore we would await being advised of your position after you have had an ~~ portunity to check with your colleagues.'' So, Mr. Speaker, that constitutes the text of the letters. I have copies for hon. members that can be circulated. I have to say that Gb 7

May 18,1982 MR. MARSHALL: Tape No. 309 ah-2 it was a matter of some surprise to me that the issue was brought up in the first nlace. And having seen CBC yesterday and seen Mr. Ouhaine, the Minister of Energy for Quebec,voicing his objections to it,we wanted to make it crystal clear to the federal authorities and to everybody in Canada that Newfoundland expects this, which is its entitlement and its right and the people of Newfoundland will not put up with that being delayed one moment longer than is necessary. It has already been delayed ten years too long now anyway. MR.NEARY: MR.SPEAKER (Russell): Opposition.

MR.NEARY: Mr. Speaker. The hon. Leader of the Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman Hndthe administration cannot say that we did not tell :them so. It was only last week that we raised this very matter in this House and suggested to the hon. gentleman that a resolution go forward from this House unanimously - MR. WARREN: Right on. MR.NEARY: - unanimously supported by members on both sides of the House. MR. WARREN: They would not take your advice. MR.NEARY: And the hon. gentleman,who refuses to take advice from anybody,would not take the advice of this side of the House. I am not surprised, Mr. Speaker, that Mr.

Lalonde had grave doubts of whether or not the administration here was supporting the legislation or not. The national Tories were against it.And I might say, Mr. Speaker, the other day the Premier misled the House,probably innocently, misled the House when he said that what the national Tories objected to was this big bill, GbB

Hay 18, 1982 Tape 310 EC - 1 MR. NEARY: this huge bill that they objected to, that if they voted for this part of the bill they would huve to vote for the whole bill. That is not true, Mr. Speaker. I checked it out after and that is not the way it is at all. So the national Tories were against it, the two Tory M.P.s from St. John's abstained from voting,and the Premier himself, the leader of the administration in this Province only gave it qualified support by saying •they did not go far enough, we want to get on the Quebec Hydro's transmission lines.' So I do not blame Mr.

LaLonde for being dubious about whether or not this administration, the Government of this l'rovince, was supporting this very important project for Newfoundland. Twice we brought it up at national Liberal conventions and only recently, last year out in Winnipeg, Bill Callahan, a former member of this House, raised this matter and had a resolution passed at Winnipeg to have this power corridor across Quebec. So, Mr. Speaker, I am still not satisfied that we have done enough.

There is a fierce lobby going on in Ottawa by the Quebec members of Parliament and by the Government of Quebec, a fierce lobby to block this bill,and a letter from the administration, Mr. Speaker, in my opinion, is not sufficient. We have been fighting for that power corridor for much longer than ten years, as the hon. gentleman kind of slyly sneaks in there. vile have been fighting for that power corridor since the mid-1960s,in case the hon. gentleman is not aware, the mid-1960s by Liberal administrations in this office. SOME liON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! 669

May 18, 1982 Tape 310 EC - 2 PREMIER PECKFORD: You qave it awav . MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the hon. the Premier is not going to intimidate me, I will deal with that matter when it comes up. The hon. gentleman is not going to intimidate me. I still say that that, even though it is gone to a second reading and is now in Committee stage, that it will be blocked unless, 670

May 18, 1982 Tape No. 311 MJ - 1 MR. S. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, we kick up more of n fuss about it than iust sending off a simpl~ letter to the federal Minister of Energy (Mr. M. Lalonde). How silly can you get? MR. W. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, how much time we qot to listen to him? MR. NEARY: I got half the time the hon. gentleman had. MR. CALLAN: He should have double. MR. NEARY: ---·- Mr. Speaker, we support the letter but we do not think the government have gone far enough. PREMIER PECKFORD: No, that is right. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker. MR.

SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon. the President of the Council. MR. r.ffiRSHALL: I have another statement to gladen the hearts of the Opposition,Mr. Speaker. PREMIER PECKFORD: A Liberal give away by your own people up there. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. MARSHJ\LL: I want to advise the House that Nowfoun<ll <md nnd Lubr,ldor llyt1ro has completed a hiqhly successful $100 million bond issuein the United States capital market. The issue was priced on Monday, May 17th 1 and carries a coupon of fifteen-and-one-eighth per cent with a term of ten years.

The issue carries a guarantee of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. The proceeds of the bond issue will be used to cinance the ongoing construction program at Upper Salmon, c~~ Arm and various transmission line projects in this Province. I am pleased with the results of the comprehensive process which a borrower like Hydro is required to go through 671

May 18, 1982 Tape No. 311 MJ - 2 MR. W. MARSHALL: prior to receiving approval to place an issue of this kind on the U. S. market. This is the first Hydro bond issue in the U. S. in fourteen years, by the way. The issue was the first to be placed since 1968. The stringent requirements- ~nd they are very stringent, Mr. Speaker­ of the Securities and Exchange Commission and of the Credit Rating Agencies were met by Hydro and are a strong indication that the turn around in its financial position in recent yeacs has proven itself, not only of Hydro but of the Province of Newfoundland. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MARSHALL: The acceptance of Hydro's credit on the major capital markets of the world will be of an important element in the financing of a transmission line from the existing Churchill Falls plant to the Island part of the Province and as a significant contributor to the overall financing plans of the Lower Churchill development. And, Mr.

Speaker, while the Opposition is in such a testy,prickly little mood today perhaps we might be able to also indicate to the House that the prospectus was filed, the statement was filed on this bond issue during the period of the election,and remember during the period of the election that the hon. gentleman there opposite were asking about the credit rating of this Province. Well, fifteen-an~one- eighth per cent in these horrendous days is very good. But I also have to report to the House, Mr.

Speaker, that it was also reported to me that certain people were calling up, if youcan believe it or not,expressing to be Newfoundlanders and asking whether the financial condition of this Province adversely affects our credit rating. Can you imagine such irresponsibility on the part of certain people, Mr. Speaker, and they will be glad to know,and this will glanden their hearts,that the finonciol 672

May 18, 19 82 Tape No. 311 MJ - 3 MR. W. MARSHALL : condition of this Province does affect nur credit ratin~ and very positively as a result of the manaqement of this administration. SOME liON. MEMBERS: MR. S. NEARY; MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Opposition. Hear, hear! Mr. Speaker. The hon. the leader of the 673

May 18, 1982 Tape 312 PK - 1 MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, there is not much I can say about that so-called Ministerial Statement except to react to the last part of the han. gentleman's remarks about calling up to find out about the financial condition of this Province, our credit rating, and the public debt and so forth and so on. The reason that we have lo call Standard and Poor and Moodys in New York and the Secur·ity Exchange to qet information is because the administration ha~e refused to give us the information in this House. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. NEARY: That is why, Mr.

Speaker, that is why we had to call New York. And I talked to some of these people in New York myself on the phone. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. NEARY: And, Mr. Speaker, I have gone to visit Standard and Poors and Moodys, I have gone to visit them and I can tell this House that the only reason - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. NEARY: - the only, only reason, Mr. Speaker, that our credit rating is remaining steady in this Province, the only reason is that Standard and Poor and Moody told us in New York that they expected the federal government would not allow the ~rovince to go bankrupt. They - SOME HON.

MEMBERS: MR.NEARY: SOME HON. f-1EMBERS: ------- - - MR. SPEAKER .(Russelll.2. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, that Ottawa - Oh, oh! - operate on the rremise - Hear, hear! Order, please! They operate on the premise, DR. COLLINS: That is an untrue statement. Do not say things like that. You cannot back them up. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, that is not an untrue statement. That is a true statement given to me and my two colleagues in the board room of Standard and Poor and 674

May 18, 1982 Tape 312 PK - 2 MR. N£1\RY: ---- Moody . SOt-m HON .:_MEMBERS.:_ Hear, hear ! .NR . NEARY : And the hon . gentleman is <1C t t I nq close to l.>cin~J unpilr 1 iamcntilry in his remarks . SOME liON . ME~1BERS : HR .,2PEAKER (Russell).:_ MR. NEARY : ----- SOME HON . M.F.l'\BERS : MR . S. NEARY: ---- Oh, oh! Order, please! Mr. Speaker . Oh, oh ; Mr . Speaker, the premise they operate under is that the Government of Canada will bail out the administration if they run into financial difficulty . But they are getting very nervous about the relationship - SOME_!!O~ ~R~ MR .

NEARY: ---- Hear , hear ! - between the Provincial Gov~rnmcnt and the Government of Canada . And they are beginning to have doubts . And, Mr . Speaker, as far as the ~100 million bond issue by llydro is concerned,that issue was started before the election was called and it Has stalled by the Security CollU1lission in Ne1-1 York and in Washington . SOME HON. !>1El-1BERS : Oh , oh ! ------HR . NEARY : It was de la yed, Mr. Speaker . lt was oclayed , Mr . Speaker . SOME.J!.O.l'!..:.~~RS : Oh, oh! AN HON . Mroiv.:BERS : --------- t>Jhy? MR . NEARY: For what reason I do not -----kno1".

But lt was delayed, and caused some very - SOME HON . HEMBERS : Oh , oh ~ -------t.ffi . SPEAKER : Order, please ! MR. NF.1\IW: -grea t concern . so~m liON . 1'\EMB •:Rs : Oh, oh! -- --- --- - .MR . SPEAKER : Order , ple ase ! -·- -- - It is the understanding of the Chair t.1at when the hon . minister makes a statement the 6/5

May 18, 1982 Tape 312 PK - 3 MR. SPEAKER (Russell~ person replying to that has about one half the time to respond to it. And I submit now that the hon. Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) has spoken for longer than the minister making the statement. I would suggest that he end up his few remarks. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I think I have said all I can say in the time at my disposal. I will have more to say about this when the Budget comes down. But, Mr. Speaker, let me end up by saying this,that 6 i 6

May 18, 1982 Tape No. 313 SD - l MH.. Nf·~l\RY : I hope that the administration told the people who loaned the money about the sinking fund of this Province. 1\N BON. MEMBER: The did not tell them about that. MR. NEARY: No? Well I hope they did, Mr. Speaker, because that is one of the legal requirements of borrowing money in the United States. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Order, please! MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. President of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: Mr.

Speaker, apart from the fact the~l t·ho hon. member's time has C'xpirod, he shouJct have expired himself, but now what he is doing he is debating, Mr. Speaker, the statement, which he is not allowed to do. You are allowed to make comments on Ministerial Statements, Mr. Speaker, but you are not allowed to debate and the hon. gentleman is debating it. MR. HODDER: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Port au Port. MR. HODDER: The Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary} was only behaving in the same matter as the Government House Leader (Mr.

Marshall) had behaved when he gave his Minis~~ri~l Statement and debated in kind. i'HI•:Ml T<:J< PI·X~KrORD: Is that in Beauchesne? SOHE IION. MEMBERS: Yes, yes, Beauchesne 164 . MR. SPEAKER' Order, please! - - ~---- -- The Chair has already indicated that the hon. Leader of the Opposition had spoken longer than the minister making the statement. In the future the Chair will rule rat',cr strictly on this matter. The hon. Minister of the Environment. MR. ANDREWS: Mr. Speaker, at this time I would like to inform this hon. House of the circumstances surrounding 6i'7

May 18, 1982 Tape No. 313 SD -· 2 MR. ANDREWS : a large spill of diesel oil from Irving Oil Company's bulk storage facility at Baie Verte and to report on the progress of clean- up to date. On the morning of February 28th a Baie Verte resident skidooing on the harbour reported an apparent oil spill to Irving Oil officials. The company initially reported a loss ol 300 to 400 yallons but, fullowirt<..J a prompt inspection by an environment officer from · mY department,later admitted to a spill of some 2,000 gallons.

After a basic clean-up using peat moss as an absorbent, it was thought that heavy ice and snow cover would likely prevent total recovery or shore-line clean-up until the Spring. As clean up progressed, however, and as oil continued to be recovered it was suspected that a much larger spill had occurred. Repeated contacts with company officials indicated that inventory figures had been checked and re-checked.

It was not until April 29th, when I threatened to issue i:t Stoppinq Order on th<' company, that I was finally informed from its head office in Saint John, New BrU:nswick,~hat 168,000 imperial gallons, or 214,000 u.s. gallons of diesel oil had been spilled in the Baie Verte Harbour. Approximately 50,000 imperial gallons have been recovered thus far by clean-up crews and it is estimated that some 15,000 gallons have been recovered by residents in their efforts to assist. It is further estimated that some 20,000 gallons of diesel oil will have disappeared through normal evaporation processes.

A light sheen of oil remains on the water surface in some areas but it is felt that most of the remainder has been widely dispersed by wind, ice and wave action. Clean-up activity for the next few days will concentrate on oily shore lines 61'8

May 18, 1982, Tape 314, Page 1 -- apb MR.ANDREWS: on approximately a one kilometer beach. The staff will remain at Baie Verte for at least another week or so to monitor ongoing clean-up activities. In the meantime, they are alsoinvestigatingreports of oil slicks near certain other Baie Verte Peninsula communities. Some oil has been confirmed near Coachman's Cove but not in recoverable quantities. I would like to advise the hon. House and the hon. members that for some time now my department, in co-operation with Environment Canada, has headed up a tank farm oil spill prevention programme.

In this regard, oil storage facilities maintained by the various major oil companies and distributors throughout the Province have been inspected and a programme of environmental upgrading determined. These facilities requiring improvements have been priorized and approximately a year ago the six oil distributors active in the Province were informed of the need to undertake this work. Satisfactory responses on compliance scheduling were received from these companies with the exception of Irving Oil Limited whose response left much to be desired.

There will obviously be further contact with the company in this regard. It might be interesting to note that the Baie Verte facility was high on our list of those needing attention. A spill of the magnitude of Baie Verte cannot be taken lightly and must be viewed with great concern. I have, therefore, recently signed a formal authorization requesting the Department of Justice to initiat e action against the Irving Oil Company under the Depar,-~ent of Environment Act.

This action has been taken as we cannot allow conditions to exist that make possible spilling of large quantities of petroleum products into our waters where the potential for considerable 679

May 18, 1982, Tape 314, Page 2 -- apb MR . ANDRE\'lS: envi~:onmental damage exis ts. In addition, new reg ulatio ns for the storage and handling of gasoline and associated products are presently under consideration . These rcyuldtions ~rc be ing designed to assure better control over such things as dyking adequacy and inventory records . In closing, ~. Spe aker, I would like to repeat that further spills of petroleum products cannot be tolerated and my department '"ill be vigorously pursuing the upgrading of all company facilities in this Province. MR. SPEAKER(Russell): for Port au Port . MR .

HODDER: The hon .the m~~ber Mr . Speaker, I agree with the minister 's action in this matter. This Province cannot tolerate oil spills of any magnitude. I f~cl, Mr. Speaker, and I speak for members on this side 680

:.l May 18, 1982 Tape No. 315 NM - l MR. HODDER: of the House when I say that an example should be made of Irving Oil. I suppose, Mr. Speaker, the only good thing that came out of this oil spill was the fact that there is now in place, or there will be in place,an oil spill prevention programme, as the minister mentions. It may be like closing the barn door after the horse is gone, but,Mr. Speaker, never­ theless we welcome that and we welcome and would support any new regulations on this side of the House that will stop this type of occurrence from happening again. Mr.

Speaker, I would only note in closing that the minister took some two months to come to a decision as to what he would do in this, but, Mr. Speaker, I think that in any cases of like spills in the Province I think that we should act very quickly and very forcefully to make sure that our environment is not disspoiled by the oil companies, or any other company that is doing business in this Province. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon. Minister of Public Works. MR. YOUNG: Mr.

Speaker, I am happy to inform the House that the government has approved my proposal to designate the area in front of Confederation Building on the South side of the Parkway as a monument area. The idea of a monument area in close proximity of Confederation Building developed from representations that have been made to me by various organizations, the most recent one being by the Oil Field Technical Society which wishes to erect a monument to the persons who lost their lives in the Ocean Ranger disaster.

The concept of having an arE3 within the city set aside as a monument area, in my opinion, has considerable merit and the open space in front of the Confederation Building seems to be an appropriate area for this purpose. G81

~.r.ay 18, 1982 Tape No. 315 Nl'l - 2 MR . YOUNG : Mr . Speaker, it is generally known that all the land around Confederation Building is included in the Pippy Park and is already restricted to specific uses by the Pippy Park Commission ~ct. For this reason I have consulted the Pippy Park Commission in advance of my proposal to Cabinet and sugges~ed that the area be included in the master plan of the Pippy Park. I am happy to say that the Commission has endorsed my proposal . Indeed, the Commission has some very interesting ideas of its own on how such a monument area would be developed.

The Oil Field Technical Society is eager to move ahead with the plans for a monument to those persons who lost tteir lives in the Ocean Ranger disaster, ~nd I will be discussir.g the implications of this proposal 1vi th my colleagues, the r.Unister of oevelopmen t (~..r . \~indsor) , and the Minister of Culture, Recreation and Youth (~tr. Simms), before the matter is referred to the Pippy Park Commission for follo,.; -up . ~tr. Speaker, I am extremely pleased by this decision of government. 682

May 18, 1982 Tape 316 EC - l M 1{. YOll NG: IL ~nsurcs th~~ the open space will be protected from undesirable developments and will be used exclusively in future as a showplace to commemorate distinguished people and significant eve nts. Sm1E HON . MEMBER S : Bear, hear! MR. HISCOCK: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) The bon. the member for Eagl e R iver. MR. HISCOCK: Mr. Speaker, we on this side have been saying for a long time, it goes back to Mr. Smallwood's days, that we should have an area for certain monuments outside.

The first one, of course, Gaspar Corte Real, was put there. nut I am also pleased that we are now setting one aside. How far we will get with it will be another thing. There are more important things, though, in the Province than erecting monuments at this time. But next year with the Sir Humphrey Gilbert corning, the Four Hundred Year Anniversary of the colony, hopefully the government will see fit to put one to him. With regard to the Oil Field Technical Society, I do regret, Mr.

Speaker, that we have had to have an outside group to come and suggest putting up a monument, that it did not come from the Cabinet, that it did not come from this House for our feelings towards this tragic disaster, that a society is doing it. I would also caution the Minister of Public Works (Mr. Young) and the commission not to .tllow this monument area to be set aside and just have a ~. y type of monuments whatsoever. I was only lookL•g out the window at the grounds the other day 683

May 18, 1982 Tape 315 EC - 2 MR . HISCOCK : and of all the legislative buildings I have seen , some in the Cn ited States as well as in Canada, I would say our grounds here are probably the v7orst in being kept up . All ••e have are la~rms, a few •·1indswept trees . And I \~ould encourage any development that can enhance this bJ.lJin~, c .~ . Pippy Park as well as mo~uments to our various people of the past. And, as I said, I do regret that we are not having one ourselves, that it is coming from an outside group .

Next year at our 400th Anniversary, I hope that this Province will see fit to put a statue there to Sir Humphrey Gilbert and hopefully they will also in their wi sdom and their broad-mindedncss and their tolerance see fit to erect one for the father of Confederation of this Province, Mr. Smallwood . ORAL QUESTIO:-IS MR . TULK : Mr . Speaker . MR. SPEAKER (Russell) = The hon . the member for Fogo . MR . TULK : Hr . Speaker , I have a question for the Premier . It concerns a matter, ~tr . Speaker, that ha s become what I regard as very serious , 684

;. May 18, 1982 Tape No. 317 SD - 1 MR. TULK: perhaps grave in the administration of this Province. It concerns a matter that was brought before th is hon. House by the Ombudsman and it concerns the actions or th e ongoing actions of the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan), and that the Ombudsman has now said that the Minister of Pisheries has contravened the Public Service Commission Act. In view of the latest development of that report, Mr. Speaker, what disciplinary action is the Premier contemplating MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : PREM IER PECKFORD: taking? The hon. the Premier. Mr.

Speaker, I think the hon. member for Fogo (Mr. Tulk) in his lead up to the question made an inaccuracy. As I understand it 1 the Minister of Fishirri<•s h~s no~ rnntr~vnned thr lnqislatinn that is in place and therefore I think that the premise to the hon . member's question is completely wrong. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. TULK: MR. SPEAKER: for Fogo. Hear, hear. Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Supplementary, the hon. member MR. TULK: For the clarification of the Premier I said that the Ombudsman -reported, so he has.

But after the Auditor General's Report in 1979, the Premier issued a statement on June 27th, it was a public policy statement, which sai d that any civil servant that had been recommended number one for a position and was turned down should only l>e! turned clown on his say so. Now is the Premier, in vie w of the fact that the minister apparently contravened and disregarded that statement of public policy of the Premier himself, going to take any disciplinary action or is he just going to ~llow the Minister of Fisheries to make a complete fare • out of anything the Premier says? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, at the time the Minister of Fisheries did inform me of how he felt about 685

May 18, 1982 Tape No . 3.17 so - 2 PREMIER PECKFORD: the candidate~ for the position and recommended to me what course of action he would like to take,and I endorsed the course of action that the Minister of Fisheries (Mr . Morgan) wanted to take . Tt was a lcqaL course of action - SOME HO~ • MEMBERS : PREt-UER PECK FORD : consultation with me . SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR . TULK : MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : for Fogo . Oh , oh! - and one t..~at \vas done aftc!" Bear, hear . Supplementa..-y, ~!r. Speaker. Supplementary, the hon . member MR . TOLK : ~tt .

Speaker. in view of that would the Premier then inform this House why he chose to turn down the number one choice of the Public Service Commi3sion and of all the people who had anything to say about the behaviour and the <1bi 1 i ty cf th.lt m;'ln I o 1ln llw job? Why did he act in collusion with the Minister of Fisheries? l'..R . SPEAKER: The hon . the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD : Mr . Speaker, three names come to a minister ah1ays and the minister has the discretion, as I understand it, to choose either one of those three, and all three are qual~fied for the position.

It was the Minister of Fisheries' opinion at the time,and his recommendation to ~e,that he wished out of the three to choose the person ~e chose, he was completely within his rights so to do,and the Minister of Fisheries Hent ahead and did what was right and proper 686

May 18, 1982 Tape No. 318 NM - l PREMIER PECKFORD: for him to do. There was no illegality. There was no dishonesty. There was no unethical behaviour on behalf of the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) Three names were recommended, the Minister of Fisheries recommended one of those three,and that is where it stood. AN HON. MEMBER: Hear, hear! MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, there is a tradition in British law, and in British practice, that justice must not only be done but seen to be done.

Now I would ask the Premier would he table in this House any correspondence that he had with the Minister of Fisheries, or would he again give us the reasons why he chose to go against all the recommendations of other people, except the Minister of Fisheries? Would he do that for us? SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! PRF.MIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, the hon. member for Fogo (Mr.

Tulk) well knows, and it is a practice that has been followed here for quite a few years, that they usually­ as a matter of fact sometimes the Public Service Commission may only recommend one, sometimes only two, normally three- If out of all the interviews they have they, in their opinion, and the committee in their opinion, feel that there are three qualified individuals. In this particular circumstance there were three qualified individuals for the job, and those three qualified individuals were recommended to the Minister of Fisheries.

The Minister of Fisheries recommended that of those three people one of those people in his view was the one that he wished to chose. He was quite within his right to do so. He consulted with me at the time before he made the appointment, and everything was done honestly, legally, and the way it was supposed to b.! done. 6E:J7

May 18, 1982 MR. SPEAKER (Russell) Port. Tape No. 318 NM - 2 The hon. member for Port au MR. HODDER: Mr. Speaker, as I read the relevant

section of the Public Service MR. BARRETT: Ask the question. MR. NEARY: Keep quiet, boy. MR. HODDER: Commission Act- MR. WARREN: Ignoramus. Ignoramus. MR. NEARY: Go out and earn your $15,000. MR. HODDER: - the act does not give discretionary - MR. WARREN: Ignoramus. Ignoramus. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. HODDER: - the uct does not qivL~ discretionary and other powers to ministers. And, Mr. Speaker, the act specifically states that the power to select remains in the hands of the deputy minister. MR. NEARY: Right on! Hear, hear! MR.

HODDER: My question to the Premier is how when he spoke a minute ago he said that the minister had made the right decision and he had abetted him. The power is not even in the Premier's hands. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, according to the correspondence auditis available to the hon. member for Port au Port (Mr. Hodder) as it is to the hon. member for Fogo (Mr. Tulk), is that the proper procedures were followed in this case and the recommendation carne forward. There has been a legal opinion gathered, which is part of the documentation.

Everything is legal, aboveboard , and honest in this transaction. What was done was done according to the legislation and done after consultation with me, as per the memo that I had issued at the time. 668

May 18, 1982 Tape No. 318 NM - 3 PREMIER PECKFORD: So the hon. member can try to make what he wants out of it. MR. WARREN: Cover up. 689

May 18,1982 Tape No. 319 ah-1 PREMIER PECKFORD: The fact of the matter is that it was honest, straight, legal, no cover up, open, and the way it should be. MR.HODDER: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary. MR.SPEAKER (Russell): member for Port Au Port. SOME HON.MEMBERS: A supplementary, the hon. Oh, oh! MR.HODDER: I happen to know, since one ol the officials resides in my district and the other one resides in the adjoining district, I happen to know both of those individuals. But I happen to know that the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) had never met either one of those individuals1nor had the Premier.

Would the Premier tell the House , and particularlv i~ light of the fact that Mr. Shirley,who was Mr. Thistle's immediate superior, why after the recommendation of Mr. Shirley, on what basis was Mr. Green picked for the job? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, first let me say to the hon. member that because T do nor. meet -nlOclll it is not my job as Premier to meet with every single individual who becomes a candidate for a job in the public service and that I only then okay or get involved in these things after I meet them all.

I happen to trust the ministers who are part of the Cabinet of this government and when they make recommendations to me,well then I accept those reco~endations. I would just refer the hon. member for Port Au Port (Mr. Hodder) to the last part of the letter from the Deputy Minister of Justice and Deputy Attorney General, "In conclusion, the strict requirements of the Act were followed as the selection was formally made by the chief executive officer~ And who is tho Chic I l'xccu t i ve o I I icc t -,, MR.MARSHALL: The Deputy Minister. 69{1

May 18,1982 Tape No. 319 ah-2 rREMIER PECKFORD: The Deputy Minister.'' I do agree with the Parliamentary Commissioner, to the extent that it is the intent of the Act to remove the Minister from the selection of public employees However, it is clearly not possible to preclude all envolvement in the process on occasion, so long as the chief executive officer retains his responsibility to make the final selection. There is no evidence that this responsibility was not exercised formally in this instance." So ,I mean,the matter lies there.

The Deputy Minister was involved, the chief executive officer was involved,and it was done the way it was suppose to be done. It is legal, aboveboard, honest and the hon. members can try to make what they can out of it if they wish. 'l'hc lonq unrl short or it i;;, it is honest, iL i.s straight and proper. MR.NEARY: Mr. Speaker. MR.SPEAKER (Russell) The hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR.NEARY: Mr. Speaker, these statements and the way the Premier is shrugging this off is rather frightening and dangerous and I am sur~ the public service employees'representativesr the unions, will have something to say about this.

But let me pursue the m~tt0r ~little further. PHm1IER PECKFORD: It happened in your day. MR. NEARY : No, Mr. Speaker, it was never done in our day,I can quarantee you that. SOMr~ liON. MEMBEHS: Oh, oh! MR.NEARY : Mr. Speaker, they can pound their desks all they want, Mr. Speaker, and the hon. the Premier - SOME HON.MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR.SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. HODDER: Now that is what they think . of it. MR. NEARY : I defy the hon. gentleman now 691

May 18, 1982 Tape No. 320 PK-1 MR. NEARY : to put up one example in this House where the Public Service Commission was overruled. Put it up! Put it up! PREMIER PECKFORD: You did not have a Public Service Commission. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER (RUSSELL) : Order, please! SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, plcc1sc! Ordc1, please! MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I am not goin g to be intimidated by the hon. gentlemen. They are showinq their arrogance and their flagrant disregard for rules and regulations that have withstood the test of time under our British Parliamentary system.

I am not going to be intimidated by Crosbie's representative in the House or the Premier or anybody else. But I am going to pursue this matter a little further and ask the hon. gentleman if it is now the policy of this administration that they will not accept, as has been tradition in the past, policy in the past, custom in the past, to accept the number one name - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Since when? Since when? MR. NEARY: It has been the custom since time began as far as the British Parliamentary system of government is concerned. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. NEARY: Oh, the hon. gentlemen are sneering and jeering.

MR. SPEAKE~: Order, please! MR. NEARY: I have not seen any evidences put on the table. MR. DINN: I do not believe what we are hcarinq. MR. NEARY: I will have something to say to the hon. gentleman later. Mr. Speaker, I am not - MR. DTNN: It iii all sc~id in thi~;. -- --- 692

May 18, 1982 Tape 320 Pk - 2 MR. SPEAKER (RUSSELL): Order, please! MR. NEARY: - going to be intimidated by hon. members, Mr. Speaker. Would the Premier tell us if this now is going to be a part of the policy of his administration, t-"1at the recommendation, that the number one person - there are three names on the :J-ist -the number one is the most q~alified in tbe opinion of the Public Service Commission, and the one they recommend fo:r the job 1 is that now ,going to be disregarded?

An,J in how many cases have ministers come to the Premier in the past,say, six months, <lnd said disregard the number one name, the recommendation of the Public Service Commission,we are going to pick our own man? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: That took a long while to ask,Mr. Speaker, and the hon. member had quite a

preamble to his so-called question. .First let me say to the hon. Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary), you know, people in glass houses should not throw stones. I find it extremely st~angc that an hon. gentleman who sits in this House and who,according to a judge of the court of this Province,some years ago spent an awful lot of money on Bell Island to the exclusion of almost anywhere else~ SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! PREMIER PECKFORD: -can stand up in righteousness indignation about something that was done legal and proper and - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, near!

PREMIER PECKFORD: - if somebody else wants to hide behind a certain position now - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! --- - BREMIER PECKFORD: - and try to call it history,I will not call it history. Let the hon. member stand in his place and answer the charges that were put against him 683 '

May is, 1982 Tape 320 PK - 3 : l ; :;:~ l : • ' PREMIER PECKFORD: a number of years ago on things · th 'at lie ' did when . h~ was a minister of the gove~~~~~ ·~ of this Provin~e·. il [.; ., i'i ,·.Li'J I SOME HON. MEMBERS: i ,, : Hear, hear! ·: \. L , u~ .i ,.i . ~, t i PREMIER PECKFORD: I , , i' Let him stand and talk about it . S0?-1E HON . MEMBERS: • • , ; • 1 ',• I t ~ ~ ~ ; ; i I Hear, hear! ~~ :. I -.:H ~ l ! .; ~ PREMIER PECKFORD : .. • • ~ •. I , , . '_r:, '-' , :; ~ L. . , , : .' i Righteous indignation. • :i ,_ . ~-- j.~ • ~ .. -. , . , : • ! : · • :-: c.: : n ; i.;; •.• : ;~ Here we have it, Mr.

Speaker, , .-;'i:1rn.);; ; ., • _,· .. ·: . ·; , : .. l 1 .~ r • i · ci l ~L1 ~;1;1r.·; a man now that suddenly wants to stand up and condemn ev ery other j < -. : ~

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I) it : I ' I ' ' i . ~ l ' : I I ' ! I I member of this administration nGW. Talk about cover up (H-.'O ·ruo ;{:.;It: ~;j 1:r..~;._ ,: ·~·or~,r! ·::- ~F::i ;·,::> ~-J -·~·.)[\' •·.Jf ~. ~-.. : Jd.:i I and arrogance. And on the question of trying to put the ~ ; ~ ; I ;: hon. gentleman down, protesting so much that we are tryinq to ~~9i1n~1·J 1f ~Jl~)li ·:rf'J' :H::i~i/!'·JC:d .;-Jjsl intimidate the hon. gentleman, he protests too much.-that o.J SJI.i.rtw (_,nol ;. /too~i J r,Ji·r ~-E~~l(J':r i:):_i l_>J:) ll~: ·~H· i we are trying to intimidate him.

Who is 9ldmJ59"lq .u :.Jjldp :·f.d! ·1 ,.:in1~·Hr~ .IP .. ::ri •rd J l,.~pf, • t·)iif...,':lq ;~ .· 1r--'! ,~ ?.f .i • norl srl.:t o.:t '1(.62 sm ! ·• J J C! ! < · • .n:·_./_J,::~~~ •. lJJflr.:; ··oa 2i.rl o.J nl slqosq ,won;.! uoy • i.;.f 1l'·''V! .·1t•:l rwd i,;,).-;(;0 ~,rl.! 'to 'Jd)r.9.1 ylsms'l:.:txs .:tl brtll I .ae.nOJ·2 ,,..:, ,: j jtl!'l b [i;orra a9auo:i aa.olp bns eauoH a.i.cH nl 2:1.i.2 o!'!w nt.m~l.:lll'J l• • n::>rl ns jl.llli ·')t •nfi"lJ?. smoa,s::>nlvo'lq a.i:rf.:t 1o .:t'luO:J "Hi:J lo sof:>nt o o.:t pnl.Eno?~JLi,orl.w srl.:t o.:t bnslai I!sH no y9nOffi lo lor lulwc n& .:tnDqa opr. 21~0y -')P. f :.l •n · ·,rfwynn 1 r.om [ r; ·1 o no i rw I ~X') ~ 'l.69rl 1 "lf,91t : amraM'.Jr~ . ~1 0 1! :•rMc: ;;· . - - - -- ---·- aasnaiJos.:trlJ?l::r n.i:. qu bns::ta rr.;:J- : GJIO"lil')cl'l mJ U13f!g -- --- -- - bna ~eqo~q bna Iapsi snob asw J~rlj nnlrljsmoe juods no.i.:tanplbnl !'l.6Sd ,':I69H : ~~H:'WM3.M • JIJOH :1:-102 --- ·------- --· - o.:t ejnsw seis ybodsmoe ll - :QHO~X~3'l ~~IM3Rq - won nol:~ieoq nlaj':I9~ s bnirlsd sblrl !:rserf ,~ssH :a;: :'IS:M3:M . l10ll 3M02 - ·- -- ------- jJ: Ilso o.:t y'l~ ons - .:._U '.:_ !~f_:i_H<~~.~~::!_~~ bnsje -:1sdmsm .norleci.:t .:tsJ .y:ro.:ta.i:.r! .:tl Ilo:J jon 'r.i:w I ,y,.ojeirl mld jen..l:SJ?s juq s:s:sw .:tsl'i.:t esp-:xsd:J sflj :rswens fll'l£ ''l:J.slq elrl n.i 68 ~

t·1<:ty lB, 1982, Tape 321, Page l -- apb ~R~~IE~-~~fKFOR.Qi trying to intimidate tho hon . gentleman [rom LaPoile(M.r . Neary)! I am not tryL"lg to intimidate him . But I will tell the hon . the member for LaPoile, or any other hon . gentleman on the other side of the House, that as everybody in this House knows, and as the people of Ne;..foundland know and demonstrated again on April 6, this is a fair and honest gover~ment . §OME_HON . MEMBERS: Hear, hear ! !,'~EtHER PECKFORD : The hon . gentleman knows that .

The hon . gentleman knows that in his heart and soul , and he i~ scratching and scheming to try to find something to condemn this government . The hon. L he membc r for 1. .. 1 Poi l c j s t;oinq to hn vc Lo scratch and scream a lot more . And the hon . member can take the low road in this House till the next election . We will take the high road , Mr . Speaker , so that there will be another overwhelming victory for this qovernmcnt when \•IC qo to the polls . SOME HON . MEMBERS : Hear , hear ! MR . NEARY : A supplementary , Mr .

Speaker . ~~ - SPEARER(Russcll): The hon . the Leader of the Opposition , a supplementary . MR . NEARY : Mr . Speaker , there is no trouble to know whn in this House wants to qet down and roll in thl..' mud . SO~E HON . ?-!EMBERS : Hear, hear! MR . NEARY : If that is the kind of a game the hon . gentleman wants to play, Mr . Speaker, then he shou ld .et up and tell us about the Gull Bridge warehouse 1od '"harf Oltt in Springdale he went to bat for one of r s members on - 6~5

May 18, 1982, Ta pe 321, Page 2 -- apb HR . "WARREN : Hear, hear! MR. NEARY : -Mr . Pelley, 1•ho too k the cameras a1vay from the COC , he should tell us abouL that, his f~~d raiser out in Springdale . That, Mr. Speaker - MR. WAR.~N : Sot-1£ HON . ME!-1BERS : MR . SPEAJ<EBJB!Jssel~J..:. MR. PECKFORD : MR. NEARY : am not going to be intimidated . SOME HON . HEMBERS : MR . SPEAKER: SOZ.1E BON . MEMBERS : MR . SPE.~KER : AN BON . MENBER: chicken . fA.R. SPEAKER : Hear, hear ! Oh , oh! Orde-r, please! Ah, now we are - Now, ~lr . Speaker, I Oh , oh! Order, please! Hear, hear ! Order, please !

He is chicken . t:e is Order, please! Hen. members kn01" that the Question Period is only thirty minutes, and I <:~m sun' .t Jot" of hon . members to my riqht haVt• ~omv questions . would suggest that they keep their question very brief and to the point , and the members to my left do similarly with their an swers . MR. NEARY : Mr . Speaker, I said at the beginnin~ I was not going to be intimidated by t:he bon . gentleman . If he has a beef with CBC over the programme last :.ight , he should take it up with them not take it out on me . SOME RON . ~£MBERS: Oh, oh ! MR . NEARY : My question is for the Premier, Mr .

Speaker . Would the hon . gentleman tell us if his admioi::.tr<:~tion alsl•c:onchml·~ pol.ilici'll inLc•·ft~n·ne~·, 686

May 18, 1982, Tape 321, Page 3 -- apb ~1R. NEARY : interference on --- bchal.f of his ministers, or the ministry , on matters that are before the court, whether they be civil or criminal~ Would the hon. gentleman condone that kind of behaviour or action on the pilrt of his ministers? Would he condone a mL~ister interfering with a civil or criminal matter before the court? ~~~.:- §PEAKER (Russell) : PREMIER PECKl"ORD : The hon . the Premier . Now , Mr . Speaker , we see it . Now the hon . the Leader of the Opposition (t·lr . Neary) is twisting and turning .

Now he is leaving the ,.;hole question of the Minister of Fisheries (Mr . Morgan) , he has left that now, Mr . Sp eaker , in his qucstioninCJ . lie is no longer question now the Minister of Fisheries and the right of the Chief Executive Officer of the Department of Fisheries to h~re one of three people who were recomm .ended, done legally , honestly and aboveboard . He has ignored that now, Mr . Speaker . And let the record show that the Leader of the Opposition, 697

May 18, 1982 Tape No . 322 EC - 1 PREMIER PECKPORD when it qo t touchy, whC'n "'<' started to refer to something \vhich is a matter of public record, Lha t he tried to throw a little bit more scurrilous information across this House as it relates to a gentleman in my district . An cl r want to tell the hon . the member for Lapoile (Mr . Neary) thut he Cdn continue, <I)'; T ._,,ld, tosc1:apc• the hPt t·un of tlh' h.a1 ·n•l . MR. NEARY \'Jhc~ s ta::ted it ? PREI-1IER PECKFORD It is a matter of pub1 i c record that the hon. the member for Lapoile - SOME liON . ME .MBE RS Oh , oh ~1R .

SPEAKER (Russell) : Order, please PREMIER PECKFORD - did st..-end 90 per cent to 9S per cent of the money that was available for buildinq motcl'inl!> in the district of Bell Island when he was d miniscer, ~nd the judge and the court have ruled on that . And I said that in =esponse to the hon . ~;e leader of the Opposition trying to find something wrong with the Chief Executive Of~icer o= a department hiring one of three people, which "''as lt!<Jill i.md honest .

T\ncl it hurls Lht• hnn. tlw J,•,tdc•l of the Opposition for me to have to qet up and keep tellinq him that we are legal and honest, and he cannot find anythinq to show different . And he can scrape, he can crawl, h.e cnn qo to the depths of the abyss and he will not find it . SOME RON . t1E~1BERS Ffear, hear ! M.R . NEARY I am not sure if I qot a yes or no answer out of that. lvould the hon .qcntlewan condone any of Ills minister~of the administration going to the judge of thP court or inter fer ring wit."l a case before the court whether it be criminal or whether it be civil? A simple yes or no .

PREMIER PECKFORD ~ .Speaker , that is scurrilous questioninq by thC' !':on . the l<'ilrle r of Oppositinn . Tt i~ hypothe tical, that the hon . leader now \'/ants to hint 6~8

May 18 , 1982 Tape 322 EC - 2 PHJ::Ml ER t>J::CKFORD : at something behind some doors . He will not come right out and ask the question specifically . He wants to try to do it generally so that then he can worm and squirm his way around . The Leader of the Opposition and the member for LaPoile (:-tr . Neary) \vill not succeed in trying to get me or any member of this administration to somehow be akin \vith him in the scurrilous way in \oJhich he asks que stions. SOME liON . MEMBERS : SOl-1E HON . MEMBERS : MR . SPEAKER (Russell) : MR. TULK : ~tiL SPEl\KER : ---MR . TULi< : awful pesky today . HR .

NEARY: Hear , hear! Oh, oh! Order , please ! Order, please ! Mr . Speaker . 'fhc hon . the member for Fogo . ~tr . Speaker , the Premier se ems Right on ! r-m . TULK : I would like to ask him another question . It is somewhat related , I guess, to what the member for LaPoile, the Leader of the Opposition on this side , asked . l\nd it concerns another matter in the continuing escapades, I suppose , of the Minister of fisheri es (Mr .

Morgan) and it concerns \-lhat I regard and ~that has to be regarded as his political interference in the judicial process regarding a civil case that was before chi.<'f Judge Steele . 699

May 18, 1982 •rupe No . 32 3 ~1.1 - I MR. B. TULK : I Hant to emphasize, Mr. Speaker , that as the member for La poi lc ( <'-1r . S. Neary)said , we are talking about a civil case but it ls still serious, Hr . Speaker , in that the !-tinister of Fisheries (Mr .J. Morgan), a minister of the Crown,is interferinq \~ith the Judici.-:~1 process . I have the teteqram that was sent to Judge Steele in vmich the minister asks for a postponement o: court action concerning one of his constituents . And I will gladly table - SOME liON . ME~1BERS : Oh, oh ! MR. S.

NEARY : \vc WC'l'C just told by Lh" l'lt!micr that we are beinr..J 10'11. MR . TULK: - that telegram . The question to the Premier is, then , will the Premier in vie.,, o: the latcsr. - SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh , oh! MR . TULK : - 1n v1ew of the latest political interference - MR . NEARY : Lay it on the table of the House . MR. SPEAKER (R~@..:_ Order, please! The hon . member for Fogo ( :-tr. n. Tulk) seems to be taking an exceptionally long time in getting to his question and I would su9qest that he get to it .

MR . 'I'ULK : \•Jj 11 the Prcmi<:r,in view or thi.s latest political interference by a minister of the Crown , nilmcly the ~1inister of Fisheries, now ask for the ::esignation of: the Ministe~ of Fisheries~ SOME HON . !-1EMBERS : Oh , oh! MR . RUSSELL : Order, please! PREMEIR PECKFORD : Let me ans·wer it whether it is ouL of order or not, Mr . Speaker . If the hon . the memb~r for roqo 70n

M<ly IlL 1 9 R2 Tape No . 323 MJ - 2 PRF:t_, ll~R PECKFORD : has any information on any Cabinet Mini s ter t·;ho has done anythinq which is MR . TULK : Here it is~ Her e it is~ I'RF.M1ER PECKFORD: ---"·- ---- fine fine . - I '"auld only ask t.IH' hon . , Mr . Spe<tkcr, the me mber for Pogo ( Mr, B .

Tulk) and his colleague s that \olhen they- a.nd this is one of the important: things that happenes in Ne~1foundl,and p~litic s all the time and will continue t o happen,it seems, is that if there is something of a serious nature to be brought against one of the members of the House, regardles s of political party , one would th ink that i. f 1o1e are going to argue back and forth about the image of politics and the image of po liticians and low roads and high ron(1s , that one wo.y th.:Jt the hc:m. member fo;r l"O<lO can demonstrate his ho nes ty and integrity as a member of the House,and his respect tor other members,is to use the proper courses to make his po int not on somet hing that can affect the character of a member of this !lo use .

N0 way . ~OM£:: IIQ~ . />!EMBERS: Oh , oh! MR SPEAKER (Russell): Order, please! SOME liON . M.EMBERS: Oh, oh ! ~!R . SPEAKER : Order! f'RF.MTER PF.CRFORD: Let that be deci ded by the courts -·-4·--------- .'lnd let that be decided by the At.t orney ·General . Then if there is no respons e from the powers that be ,then 7 0 .,

May 18, 1982 Tape No . 324 NM - 1 PREMIER PEC KFORD : bring it up on the floor of the Rouse so that a member's character is not torn a!,Jart when he is not even in the House SOME EON . MEMBER : .MR. t\EARY : character . PREMIER PECKFORD : House, Mr. Speaker . Oh, oh! That has nothing to c.lo o.-.'i th - when he is not even in the All I say to the member for Fogo (Mr . Tulk),if he choses this methodology, if he wants to continue to cho se this v1ay of trying to paint the character of a minister, fine . I am willing to deal with him in here in this House, or outside.

If he does not want to use the riqht course of act so that a person's charactf.!r ls prol\!cLNI, fiaw, I do not mind . The boo . member for Foqo, the first time I heard about it is today . Let the hon. member for Fogo table his documentation . We will take it; if there is anything wrong, illegal, not right about what the ~tinister of Fisheries (Mr . Morgan) did,action will be taken, Mr . Speaker . SOME RON • MEMBERS : MR . TULJ< : MR . SPEAKER : member for Fogo . MR . TULJ< : but in this Hou se ? SOME liON . MEMBERS : Hear, hear! ~lr . Speaker. A supplementary, the hon . Where else do you take action Oh, oh !

MR . TULK : Where else do you bri ng up this kind of thing but in this House? In your office? In your office? PREMIER PECKFORD : That wears awful thin . That wears awful thin . MR . TULK : Do not be crazy . I will table the report, Mr . Speaker, and I will ask the Premier to take action 7u2

May lfl, 19 82 Tape No. 324 NM - 2 MR. TULK: on the statement that is in this and it shows that the minister has politically interferred. There have been Cabinet Ministers who have had to resign for less than this. Will he ask for his resignation? AN HON. MEMBER: MR. SPEAKER (Russell) PREMIER PECKFORD: No. Order, please: Mr. Speaker, the hon. member for Fogo (Mr. Tulk) is treading on very dangerous ground. Now when he says that the only place he can do this is in this House that wears a little bit thin when he is talking about members of this House. That wears a little bit thin. 1\N !ION.

MEMBER: IJear, hear~ PREMIER PECKFORD: The people of Newfoundland, and the people of Canada, people of any civilized society, know full well how people are supposed to act if they have information against another citizen, let alone another member, and what-is the proper approach to take if they have serious concerns about that. MR. NEARY: A point of order, Mr. Speaker. A point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please~ PREMIER PECKFORD: All I will say, Mr. Speaker, is that we will take whatever action is necessary. MR. SPEAKER: Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Order, please~ The hon. Mr.

Speaker, that is several times this afternoon that the hon. gentleman impugned motives against members on this side of the House - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh~ MR. NEARY: - questioned their motives. The hon. gentleman accused my hon. friend of attacking the - 703

May 18, 1982 PREHlER PECKFORD : there . MR . NEARY: Tape No . 32!, N~1 - 3 Impugne motives . Look over - attacking the character and questioning the motives of the Minister of Fisheries (~tr . Morgan). SOME HON . :-!EMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEJL:{ER (Russell): Order, [>lease ~ !o\R. NEARY: ~ . SpeaJ<er, this is not a matter of character . It is not . The hon . gentleman is just dragging in a red herring. It is a matter, Mr.

Speaker, of ~~e behaviou= and the political interference of a gentleman who is in a position of a~.:thority, of a gentleman \~ho can influence people, a Minister of the Cro,m, not an orcinary citizen . And, Mr . Speaker, I would submit that the hon . the Premier b..: asked to withdraw the imputation that my hon . friend is questioning the minister 's character because he is not. MR . SPEAKER: The hon . the Premier . PREMIER PECKFORD: To that po int of order, Mr . Speaker, there is no point of order here . ·rhe hon . 1.e.1ue r of the Opposition (Mr .

Neary) is trying to use the rules to his own benefit without 7Lt.

.L.:._, May 18, 1982 Tape No. 325 SD - l l'HP.MfJ.;r{ PRECKFORD: making any citations, without giving uny quotutiuns from Standing Orders, from Beauchesne or anyone c' I St', h) <JC' t tlp .:111d try to make a speech - MR. HODDER: Impugning motives is in Beauchesne. Do not worry about it, boy. PREMIER PECKFORD: - which is completely against the rules. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear .

PREMIER PECKFORD: The question I was bringing up was a very good question, that when any of us members in this House have evidence of some wrongdoing by another member, at least the mcmbc;r to whom we are going to make the allegation deserves the right to be here in the House to hear what is being said- HR. HODDER: So you can cover it up like you did with the 1\uditor General's report? I'RimlEH PECKI•'ORD: and, secondly, to give it to the appropriate authorities first. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, Oh, MR NEARY: You do not think you should explain it? MR. SPEAKER (RUSSELL) Order, please!

J>l{]o;MJ!m I'L ·:CKI•'ORD: No. lt is highroad. That is what - MR. NEARY: You want us to go down to your office~· SOME HON. ME.MBERS: Oh, oh. MR. NEARY: Do not be so silly, so foolish MR. SPEl\KER: Order, please! SO~m llON. MEMBERS: oh, oh. ~m. SPEI\KER: Order, please! l'IU::r1Lim Pl·:CKI•'OTW: It is the highroad. You do not understand. rm. NEARY: No, I understand, do not worry. The hon. gentleman started all this, getting down in the mud. MR. SPEAKER : Order, please! SOME !ION. r-1EMnERS : Oh, Oh. MR. SPE.I\KER: Order please!

As hon members know, it is usually the custom that when the speaker rises to make some ruling that the hon. members should remain silent. I would request that they do that. 705

May 18, 1982 Tape No. 325 SD - 2 MR. SPEAKER (Russell): There has been no point of order raised by the hon. Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary), just a difference of opinion on both sides of this House. The hon. member for Port au Port. MR. HODDER: Mr. Speaker, to get back to the matter at hand. Mr. Speaker, in the I1inister of FisheriEs' letter to the Ombudsman, the Minister of Fisheries said that any discussions pertaining to the matter would be between the Premier and himself and the Premier has already said that there was discussion. And in the letter from Mr. David A.

Vardy, Clerk of the Executive Council, the information was brought forth that it was discussed in Cabinet. Now I will ask the question again, Mr. Speaker. I know both of those gentlemen, I have a darn good idea what happened because I have talked to one of t,~ ~entle~en and - MR. BARRETT: MR. HODDER: SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. NEARY: Be quiet! SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. HODDER: nh. vou know it <1ll. Yes I do. Yes I do. Oh, oh. You have your $15,000 now over there. Oh, oh . '.L'here were two men of ability, but Mr. Thistle hac very great ability and it was recognized by the Depetrtmcnl of Pishcrics.

But on the recommendation of a certain gentleman who heads a corporation in Stephenville 1 it was told to the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) that Mr. Green should get the job. !ilmv, Mr. Speaker, I want to know from the Premier why he - MR. NEARY: How slimy, how slimy can you get. · MR. HODDER: - decided to take number two and put him number one? What reason, what was wrong with Mr. Thistle? MR. NEARY: How slimy can you get, Mr. Speaker. 7G6

May 18 , 1982 Tape No . 325 SD - 3 ~REMIE R PECKFORD: There you go , Mr . Speaker, there is the innuendo for you now, if you want to hear innuendo and rurnour and all the rest of it. 1\N liON . MEMBER: Hearsay. PRE~HER PECKE'ORD: And hearsay and all the other things that the hon . member men~ioned as he tried to ask his question . As I indicated to the hon . member bef ore,and the hon . members of the Opposition, this matter of the ~H n istcr of Pisheries (Mr.

Morgan) and the appointment of t his gentleman was done according to the law and done honestly and openl\f nnc'l 1 accepted the Minister of Fisheries' recommendation on \·,hioh of the three he wanted to fill that pos i t ion . And that was fair, reasonable , honest and aboveboard . l\n d that is the story on it as I knO\-l it,and that is 707

r-1.ay 18, 1982 Tape No. 326 EC-1 PREMIER PECKFORD : all the story on it as I know it. It was done legally, documentation proves that. The hon. member is trying to make a mountain out of a molehill, Mr. Speaker. MR. NEARY: in a court case. MR. HODDER: MR. SPEAKER (RUSSELL) MR. HODDER: You would like to duck int erferenc e Mr. Speaker. The bon. member fpr Port au Port. Surely, Mr. Speaker, when the Premier had his discussion with the Minister of Pisheries (Mr. Morgan), the Minister of Fisheries must have told the Premier why he picked Mr. Greene rather than Mr. Thistle.

Would the Premier tell the House of Assembly why he sanctioned the minister in taking AN HON MEMBER : None of your busine ss. MR. NEARY: Wait a minute. It is the people's business. MR. HODDER: Someone other than the person who won the position as number one over fourteen other people who applied? Why? There must have been a reason and the Premier must know that reason. PREMIER PECKFORO: Mr. Speaker, I know the reason. Because in the mind of the Minister of Fisheries he was the most qualified person for the job in the Minister of Fisheries' opinion. I mean, that is the whole point of it.

Three people were nominated to be qualified for this job. The Public Service Commission said, 'There arc three people here out of all those people we have interviewed. All three of them are qualified for this job, pick one. The Chief Executive Officer of the Department of Fisheries, pick one. Which one? Ninety times, it might be - MR. NEARY: That is the trouble. It is the number one on the list who is always chosen. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, may I answer th e ?Uti

~· May 18, 1982 Tape No. 326 EC - 2 PREMIER PECKFORD: question without being interfered with? May I have the protection of the Chair so that I can speak in silence, speak while the rest are being silent? SOME liON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKEH. (RUSSELL): Hear, hear! Order, please! PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, most times, as most people in this Province know, perhaps 95 per cent or 98 per cent of the time, the number one might be taken.

There are two or three or four or five per cent of the time when, in the opinion of the executive of the department and the minister - or recommended to the minister who then recommends it for different from number one. It does not mean that every last time. It happens 90 per cent and 95 per cent of the time and that is a pretty good record. Many times, as a matter of fact, Mr. Speaker, we refer to the Public Service Commission many jobs that do not have to go to the Public Service Commission, but we do it because we agree with the system, that it is a fair and honest system most of the time.

And that is why we do it, but not every single time, 100 per cent of the time, every time. Every now and then the executive of the Department of Fisheries, the Assistant Deputy Minister, and so on, miCJht recommend other than that number one, given that all three are qualified and from their knowledg.e of all three of the candidates they recommend that the person most tuned to this particular job in their opinion is number two or is number three. It happens very rarely but it will happen from time to time, and that is what happened in this particular circumstance. 7G9

May 18, 1982 Tape 327 PK - l SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. HODDER: A final supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell): A final supplementary, the hon. member for Port au Port (Mr. Hodder). MR. HODDER: Mr. Speaker, Mr. Thistlr was enticed by the Department of Fisheries and gave up two high paying jobs on the promise that \oJhen this job came up that he would be given preference, not that he would be given a job. AN HON. r1EHBER: That is wrong. MR. NEARY: true. That is not wrong. That is AN HON. MEMBER: You cannot accept that. Tl i~; h<'.:l!"S;ty. MR. HODDER: Mr.

Speaker, due to the fact, my number one question is due to the fact that he did take the job,and due to the fact that he was number one, would the Premier consider the Ombudsman suggestion that he get compensation? And secondly, the Premier's.answer to my former question applies when all things are e,qual., But all things were not equal in this case, Mr. Speaker, because the recommendation from the Director of Field Service said,"Mr.

Thistle conducted himself in an exemplary manner in that he showed much ability and enthusiasm and his work,was meticulous and every thing he did, and his performance during the three years involved was most satisfactory." Now, Mr. Speaker, after a recommendtion from the Director of Field Services like that, what would even, and particularly when neither the Premier nor the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) knew Mr. Thistle, why would he not be chosen? PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, you can quote - 71[1

May 18 , 1982 Tape 327 PK - 2 MR . SPEnKER (Russell) : I will allow the hon . i~remier to answer the question . The time £or the Question p,•rind wi 11 h<~v<' c•xpi J"CU then . l'REI'll EH PECK FORD : Mr . Speaker, you can quote what you like . I mean , the fact of the matter was all three of them \"ere qualified . There were pretty recommendations on all three of them . ~m. NEARY : one on the list , number one . PRBMIER PECKFORD : t1r. Thistle was number You can quote the same kind o( thing from another person recommending - l'iR . HODDER : PREMIER PECKFORD : about another person . MR .

SPF.AKF.R : PRJ~~n F.R PF.CKFOnD : No 1 you cannot . - or sayin g somethin g good Order , please ! ~he long and short of it was that in the view of the Public Service Commi ssion - MR . NEARY: If that is the garbage you are getting on with - MR . SPEAKER : MR .

NEARY : I'Rl•:Mt P.R PF.CKPORD : Order , ple ase! -the time is up . rn the view of the Pu blic Service Commission there .,.;ere three people qualified 1and accordi ng to the executive of the Department of Fisheries and the Minister of .Fisheries (Mr . ~':organ), the person that they recommended 1-1as the one they felt mostqualified for the job in their department . MR . NEJ\RY : l'lR . SPI~I\Kr:R : ---- MR . NEARY : Mr . Speaker - Order , please ! -I want to ask Your Honour if the ~ime is 1p, because this is gar bage we are getting here now. MR . I'IARREN : 1'1R . ST'EJ\KER 7 11 Yes .

Order , please ~ If the hon. -

May 18, 1982 Tape No. 327 PK-3 SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER (RUSSELL) : Order, please! If the hon. Leader of the Opposition (M~. Neary) were listening, maybe he woulJ have heard me say that I would permit the Premier to Qnswer the question, if he so desired, and at that time the time for the Question Period would be up. MR. NEARY: The time was already up. Sm1E HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! 7 i 2

May 18, 1982, Tape 328, Page 1 -- apb MR. SPEAKER(Russell}: Order, please! Before we proceed with other business 1 I would like to welcome to the galleries today a delegation of council members from Glovertown; Councillors Mr. Warren, Mr. Briffett, Mr. Hounsel, Mr. Earle, and t)1e Town Manager 1 Mr. Sparkes. I welcome you indeed to the galleries. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! REPORTS OF STANDING AND SPECIAL COMMITTEES MR. OTTENHEIMER: MR. SPEAKER: of Justice. Mr. Speaker. The hon. the Minister MR. OTTENHEIMER: Mr. Speaker, pursuant to

section 23 of the Legal Aid Act,I table a copy of the financial statement for the Newfoundland Legal Aid Commission for the fiscal year ending March 31, 1981. MR. GOUDIE: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Rural, Agricultural and Northern Development. MR. GOUDIE: Mr. Speaker, I am going to table financial statements for the years ending March 31, 1981, for the Newfoundland Farm Products Corporation. And, also, financial statements for the year ending December 31, 1981, for the Newfoundland Chicken Marketing Board. ANSWERS TO QUES'l'IONS FOR WlllCH NOTICE HAS BEEN GIVEN DR. COLLINS: MR.

SPEAKER: of Finance. DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker. The hon. the Minister Mr. Speaker, I wish to table th'~ answer to question No. 3, asked by the hon. the member for Port au Port(Mr. Hodder), and placed on the Order Paper of Tuesday, May llth. 7LJ

May 18, 1982, Tape 328, Page 2 -- apb MR. OTTENHEIMER: MR. SPEAKER( Russe ll): of Justice. Mr. Speaker. The hon. the Minister MR. OTTENHEIMER: Mr. Speaker, I believe you will recall that yesterday during Oral Questions there were questions with respect to the legal opinions which the government had received with respect to borrowing from the consolidated sinking fund. I was asked whether I would table those legal opinions.

I said that I would take it as notice and I am, today, tabling those - there are three - three opinions, one from the Department of Justice, one from the American Counsel, and one from the financial agents. I should point out in so doing, as hon. members are aware, in many instances legal opinions are not tabled. And it should not be understooo that all legal opinions will be tabled. There are many - MR. NEARY: (Inaudible). MR. OTTENHEIMER: - instances, certainly in terms of prosecution and appeals - PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: PREMIER PECKFORD: On a point of order, Order, please!

The hon. the Premier. The Leader of the Opposition(Mr. Neary) across the way there, while I am trying to listen to the Minister of Justice(Mr.Ottenheimer), is threatening me that he is going to do something or another. I do not know what it is the hon. the Leader of the Opposition is talking about, but across the hall here he is making threats and, you know, I would like - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! 714

May 18, 1982, Tape 328, Page 3 -- apb .!?BEI'HER PECK FORD : the Minisccr of Jusdce in silence . i-IR NE/\RY : -------NIL !;!'~!\.t\r:~jl{~:_;_;;~·jJl_: the Opposition . - to hear the hon . ~1r . Speaker . 'rhu hun. the Leader of MR . N~ To tbat point of order, Mr . Speaker . r am surprised to hear t:,e non . the Premier make a statement of that magnitude . With tho body CJU<\r<ls that ho hns, the chain link fences around his property, electronic gates and all the other security - A.~ HON . MEMBER : (Inaudible) bullet proof cars . ~lB.:- N~~~J..=.

Yes, bullet proof cdrs ~nd all that sort of thing, I doubt very much that I r-oulci get handy to the Premier to do him ;my harm. ~1H . llODDim: This is the closest you \vill ever get to him . SO~m HON. ME~IBERS : Oh, oh ! MR . SPEAKER : Order , please ! ~laybe if all hon . Olcmbers would let .:1 minister , or any hon . membe,r when is is speaking - be silent and let him speak , then we '"ould not have this sort of thing being carried on in the t~usc of Assembly. 7 IS

May 18,1982 Tape No. 329 ah-1 MR.SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. Minister of Justice. MR. OTTENHEIMER: Mr. Speaker,I was about to table these three legal opinions,but I do want to point out that, as hon. members are aware ,in many instances legal opinions are not tabled and that course of action then certainly is dictated by many obvious reasons in terms of prosecutions, in terms o [ appec1l s. 'l'he:tc could we L I be references to courts. There are many instances in which legal opinions are not tabled.

In this particular instance certainly it seems to be quite appropriate ,so we will be tabling these three legal opinions. There are no copies so I would ask that copies be made and given to the Opposition and given to the press as well. SOME HON. MEMBERS: II ear, h<:'ar! MR. SPEAKER: The han. Minister of Culture, Recreation and Youth. MR.SIMMS: Mr. Speaker, yesterday during Question Period the han. member for Torngat Mountains (Mr. Warren) asked for further information rclJtcd t•• lh~ issue of complementary passes to the Arts and Culture Centre. MR. BARRETT : the list. MR.

SIMMS: He wanted every name that was on He wanted a list of names. There is no such list of names specifically kept but I can indicate to the han. member the categories of people at least who have received in the past complementary passes.

They include guests of the state, distinguished visitors to the Province, commercial sponsors, both local corporations who regularly sponsor and pay for the theatre programmes used in the various performanc es, press tickets for general public relations, medid [or rcvicwin<J th~ performances, amateur performers who receive no payment for their services, consultive committee members. Some 7l6

i'l.ly lf.l,l9ll2 •rape No . 329 ah-2 14H. SlMMS : contracts that are signed call fnr ,, nu•nh0r of I jckcls rtl qo to thC' nt traclion ,nd so on . The second part of his question , 1 believe , related to the names of the r~s . Again I hov•· l'hc !nne illlS\"<'1', there arc no specific 1 i st or namcs,but I have been informed that members on bo~h sides of this hon . House have on occ asion received complementa ry passes for certain performances . ORDERS OF THE DAY f\11C Sl't·:/\1\t·:H tHussc Ll) : Order 1, Address in Reply . The debate ye sterday was adjourned by the hon . member for Torngat Mounta ins .

SOME liON t-1EMBERS : Hear , hear ! MR . W/\RRE~ : f\rr . Speaker , how much time do r have left? Fifteen minutes? MR . SPEAKER : Seventeen . MIL h'/\l~ ltt·:N: Seven t ccn j s it':' Okay, Mr . Speaker , I wish to beqin where I left offye s~erday in saying that after April 6th the Premier returned to the Hou se of Assembly with ~ l~nds l ide victory and I would li ke to congratu late him on hjs personnl victory and also all members on the other side of the House of As sembly .

How ever, Mr .Speaker , ;:1 1 thouc;h t-hP ti.n~ in Newfoundland and Labrador was sort of S\~1nq i.nc1 in Tory blue favour , I \-Tant to say 71 7

May 18, 1982 Tape No . 130 M.l - I ~1R. G . lvARREN : that the residcr.ts in Tor'l<'lat ~ountains did not have too mul:h faith in the Premier or his party . I:l fact, Mr . Speaker, it would be interest:inq to note that in -:he to.,.m of Riqolct i11 tile• 1979 cl<!ction, the i> . c. :><lrtv qo:_ st:v.~nty - nin(' Vt•t,•s ,1;;tl l ,,,. t!w Liberul candidute got seventy -t;,•o in 1979 . ln Lhis p.t~t. <·l~.:l;Liur: t!'le P. C. party wen:. from seventy-nine dO\,•n t:o seventeen ilnd I went fro:n seventy -t\oJO up to eiqhtv-seven . IV'\ HON . 11E~1BER: working on it. MR . \vARREN: could have a lot to <io ••i th it.

It could be that .roc r.n,rl; •· •··~- I would !>robably say thnt.: 1-;e go from Rigolet. co Hukknvik; the 1'. C. 's in 1979 • hud ,) qr.lnd tlll. 11 or fj ly VcJ t\•:;, this time they managed throuqh bribery and everything els\! to get twe:1ty -three votes out . of it and I endec u;:> .,.;ith a 14 7. SOME RON . l-1E~1BERS : Oh, oh! ~m. CALLru~ : Yes. bribery. Bribery . ~m . \-I/\RR8N: Makkovi k to Postville - AN HON . MEfo\BER : ,.,, -. sp.•o~k<'r I I h··ll We· ljc> II'Pill That is not true . ~1R. NEARY : Get up O"l a point of order, sure.

MR . t·~ARREN : - 1-1e qo to Postvi11e am!'"~ find out that in the last election the P. c. party dicl mannqc thirty -si x votes. \•IGll this time thay scrounqecl through, wi til promises and everyt.hinq else ,Nith tv:enty-thrt'c votes . r think one• o: the 110st out stanCing turnarounds. ~lr . Soeai<er, is that in the t-own of Hopedale, which never, never , never voted Libr~ra 1 in their life, never, never voted Liberal in their life , ~lwov~ voted P. C., in :fact, in the last election in 1979.t her<' wen.­ sever.ty -s even P. c.'s nnd only furty-t.hrcc l.ibcrals in 1979 . 1\11d r{'l' somP reason, Nc.

Spcukcr, Lhis timL• in llop~d~llC' instc·;.ld .,, ::<'V\'11)'­ nine J'. C.' s thcy cndccl up with sixty-six, only il drop .. r :;c •vc·n · 7iH

'lay 18, 19 82 Tape No . 330 MJ - 2 :.\~WARREN: i~ was not too bad, only a drop of SC'Ver-but the Liberal vote \.,e nt from forty -three up ~o 119 in the t:o\~n of Hopedale . And , Mr . Speaker , thi s much show some (:One<' rn I><' en use - AN BON . MEMBER: (Inaudible) . MR . NARREN : Just wai1: nm<~ un~il I ge~ to ~ain . In Nain in 1979,130 ~regressive Conservatives and 165 Liberals, I just barely won Nain by thirty -five votes . i was concerned because Nain had a votinq pattern of about 500 people . ~n t~i~ ti.m~ the Progre ssive Conservative party went from 130 - AN HON . MmtBER : ~m . 1-li\RRl·:N : came down to forty -six Up ~o? - they did not go up , no ; they 719 , ,. ..

May 18, 1982 Tape 331 EC - 1 MR. WARREN: and I went ~rn~ l~S to 391. Now, Mr. Speaker, I will tell you what happened all along the Coast. ~he Premier and this administration have really got the people in the Torngat Mountain mad. They got them mad with their kind of attitude. you will remember when the Premier came down from Ottawa waving his golden wand and saying, 'I am responsible for the Constitution; however, I am going to give away the rights of the native people', that was the turning point.

It was the Premier of this Province who gave away the rights of the native people in Labrador and that was where the Premier and his administration really got the kick where it deserved most. DR. COLLINS: I thought Trudeau did that. MR. WARREN: No, it was the Premier who would not listen to the delegation that carne down here and tried to bring a resolution into this hon. House. It was the Premier, and three times I had to crct on my fl'<'l :m<i st -op that resolution from being passed. That is who was doing it. Mr. Speaker, you know, it is amazing that the Minister of Finance (Dr.

Collins) could come along and blame it on Trudeau. Poor old Trudeau! What are we going to do in the next couple of months when Mr. Trudeau is going to retire? Whnt are we going to do, I wonder? Who are we going to kick? You know, the hon. the Minister of Forest Resources and Lands (Mr. Power) said at the last convention that he would like to get rid of Clark. Now the people of Canada are going to get rid of Trudeau. So now we have Clark gone and we have Trudeau gone and, you know, what is the Minister of Finance goinq to complain about then?

He is going to say, well, that is poor John Crosbie and poor Jim McGrath up there, is it? Is that what the Minister of Finance is going to say? 72n

,,:l __ t-1ay 18, 1982 Tape 331 EC - 2 Mi~. \'JARHEN: My friend, I would like to avoid the Minister of Finance (Dr. Collins) and I would like to avoid every hon . member on that side of the House, that 1"hether the Premier calls the election tomorrow or four years down the road, any member on that side of the House,including the Premier himself, come up Gnd take me on . SOME liON. MEMilBHS : Hear, hear ! MR . \vARREN : Come up and take me on and I will show you, I 1.,.ill show any member on that side of t:hc House that, you knO\", the vote that Mr . Hunt go;:, the 214 vote that Mr .

Hunt got in the last election would be a major victory for any member on that side of the House to get . So, ~tr . Speaker, I challenge any member from that side of the House . t-IR . STEWART: Take l!le on? HR . WARREN : The memb~r for Fortune - Hermitage (Mr . Ste1-1art)? Okay , there we go . Right away you know you are going to lose your nomination so you may as well leave it alone . Mr . Speaker, I want to say that I am concerned that 721

May 18, 1982 Tape No. 332 NM - 1 MR. WARREN: this government is not paying enough attention, 'his government is not paying enough attention to Labrador. And, Mr. Speaker, if I had ona_y s·pent one half of the money in my campaign that my op~onent spent, my opponent would not have gotten fifty votes. In fact h~~ must have - I would say he bought about 210 of the 214 he got. And he spent something like $27,000 in his campaign, $27,000 in his campaign. And I spent $5,300! $5,300 I spent in my campaign. And, Mr.

Speaker, it goes to show that it is not the money that you have in your back pocket that is going to win the election. And I am surprised at the member for Baie Verte-White Bay (Mr. Rideout). ~me member for Baie Verte-White Bay is pointing his finger across here, because I would bet any amount of money that he spent more money in his election campaign that I did too, and probably more than one vote could be persuaded in that instance. MR. RIDEOUT: $8,500. MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, I wish to go on and say that the district of Torngat Mountains since the election - AN HON. MEMBER: MR.

WARREN: How much did you spend? $5,300. So, Mr. Speaker, the people in Torngat Mountains are concerned. They are concerned about this government. They are concerned about the Minister of Labour and Manpower (Mr. Dinn) whom I think so far has made sure that two or three of my constituents have managed to get a job on the offshore oil rigs.Ata I congratulate the Minister of Labour and Manpower saying, "Look, that is three from one district." So I congratulate the Minister of Labour and Manpower at lcilst. for giving that consideration. 722

>. M<.~y 18, 1982 Tape No. 332 N~- 2 MR . WJ\RRI':N: I am looking fo~vard to some oi the promises t.hal have been promised in the last election . I know that the Minister of Culture, Recreation and Youth (Mr . Simms) is not listenincr . My goodness gracious. coultl the Hir.ister of Culture, Recreation and Youth just listen for a second? Mr . Speaker, I am ~alking about the Minister of Culture, Recreation and Youth,. I kn0111 he is not interested in listening, however, there ha s been a promise of $35 ,000 to the town of Postville for a hockey rink .

So I hope the mini!':Lcr will keep thnt in mind when he brings in his estimates to be debated . Mr . Speaker, you know this government , since they came ba ck - and today 'o~e got an example, Mr . Speaker, we got an example today of how a Premier of the Province can get up and defend a minister ,.,ho knowingly in 1977 contraven ed the Public Tender Act , who kno,._.inqly interferrecl with the court of the "Pro vi nce, who kno,•ingly inter£erred 7 2 ,i

May 18, 1982, Tape 333, Page l -- apb MR. WARREN: with the Public Service Commission and still will tolerate such a minister to carry on in this government. And, Mr. Speaker, I am sure now with the ten new members - well, probably I should say the seven new members who are on that side of the House, when they get the full story they are going to asking themselves a serious, serious question: Why am I in this House? What am I here? Are you here to be in the same party as such a person as the Minister of Fisheries(Mr. Morgan) is associated with?

Now surely goodness the new members of this House will have second thoughts tomorrow when they come in. Well, if we had known, if we had only known that these Cabinet ministers are trying to pull these stunts with the people of the Province, if we had only known this, we would not have been in this House today. MR. DINN: If I had spent LIK' same amount of money for a vote as you did, I would have to spend $460,000. MR. WARREN : Yes, Sir, I agree with you. &1d if you had to travel as many miles as I did, you would have spent the same amount of money too. MR.

HODDER: And if he were to win in your district,he would spend $450 million. MR. WARREN: There you go. As my hon. colleague just said, I would challenge you to come up and spend that much money in my district and you still would not get one hundred votes. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hc.Jr! ·------- ... - MR. WARREN: So ,you see, you can go down to your district and in one day you can walk around it, one day. It takes me two days to get to 724

. ' May 18, 1982 , Tape 333, Page 2 -- apb MR . ~lARREN : one community from st . John' s. So I \·.oould like to oblige the hon . member . lt j~ the geographical location of the Torngat Mountains . If the hon. minister would only tak e me ont 1 have one challenge already of one minister taking me on . So I am looking forward to the next election and he will be gone . SOl-iE HON .MEMBERS : He will be gone . MR . WARREN : Oh definitely . So 1 would suggest that he should not waste his money at all . Now, Mr . Soeaker - DR . COLLINS : Come down to St. John 's South . . SO~m liON . Mf:~1BERS : Oh , oh! MR .

WARREN : Say that again . DR . CQ~1~S : Wny do you not come down to an urban district like St . Jc .hn ' s South? ~\R . Wl\RREN : St. John's South? Again the r.tinister of Finance (Dr . Collins) can get out of the House of Assembly here at 1:0 0 p.m. on Friday - MIL IHNN : .. ---·-- Why do you not run in the district you live in? MR . \~ARREN : What is that? MR . DINN : Why do you not run in the districc you live in? MR. WARREN : Well, I will challenge you first and you challenge me afterwards, okay? 50:.1£ liON . ME~tBERS : Oh , oh ! ~\R . Wl\RREN : Mr.

Speaker, when looking at the Pub 1_ c Accounts Committee, the Premier was suppo d to anno~~ce today who they were . l-!R . TULK : Be got excit ed . 725

Z.1ay 18, 1982, Tape 33<., Page 1 -- apb MR. WARREN: ~lr . Speaker, scc.inq that the l!inister of Culture, Receation, and Youth ('1r . Simms) is listening, I would like to throw him a couple o( uromi !;cs, a couple of pro:nises that \<lere :nade in the campaign :.n my district . The promise of a hockey rink in ?ostville, $35,000. !n fact, not only a promise, but a $35,000 commitment via telegrar•, a co~tment of $35,000 for Postville. Furthermore, in Nain a roof over the hockey rink, another Sll,OOO.

If the Ninister of Culture , Recreution and Youth would only listen to some of those promises, t.h\!n 1 am sure he would be qui~e busy making sure that every district in this Province is looked after . SOl'IE RON . ME~1BERS: Hear, hear ! MR. WARREN: In fact, I am just wondering off the cuff - MR. TULK: Does he know all his members yet? MR. WARREN: - has he met all his ·--- members yet? Because I did not introduce him to one of the members. So if the minister has not met his own - MR . TULK: Tell them the story. Tel] them the story. MR. WARREN: No, I think it would be embarrassing.

It would be embarrassing for the media. I cannot tell that kind of story here. Mr. Speaker, in concluding I w~uld like to say that 1 am supporting the amendment to the Thorne Speech . I think the Throne Speech was twenty-five pages of bashing Ott awa . As I said, you are expectin g to get things from Ottawa but 726

.... _ May 18, 1982, Tape 334 , Page 2 -- apb MR . WARREN : still and all , every time the Premier opens his mouth, the President of the Council(Mr . Marshall) opens his mouth , all they are doing is saying, look, Trudeau this, or ~~rc Lalonde this . As t said earlier, we are going to qet rid of ·rrudeau . I will help to get rid of Trudeau too. Yes, I will . Yes . SOME HON . ~MBERS : Hear, hear! t-!R . WARREN : To me Trudeau is no better to the Liberals in Ottawa than Clark is to the r.cs . SO~\E HON . MEMBERS : S0~1E HON . t-1EMSERS : MR . WARREN : to have two new leaders . Hear, hear ! Oh, oh ! Okay?

So we are going Clar k is going to be gone . Trudeau is going to be gone . \vho is the Minister of Finance? No'" , I can see the Minister of Finance 's (Or . Collins) l.>udgct next Thursday . He is going to get up and he is going to read his budget and he is going to say, 'Because of the small amount of money coming from Otta\oJa this year, we have to raise our taxes on this and we have to raise our taxes on that '. So the Minis ter of Fin~nce is going to blame it on Ottawa and going to blame it on Mr . Trudeau . Oh ,yes . 727

May 18, 1982 Tape No. 335 so - 1 MR . WA-~~ = So that is going to happen next Thursday~ But then the next year- Ai'~ HON . MEMBER : MR. '>'iAR.REN : of hi~ too . SOME BON . ~~ERS : MR . 'tlARREN : :·o· . .; about Rompkey? :~~. maybe we should get rid Hear, hear. You kno\.;, I really think that all the members in Otta• . .;a, ~lr . Romp key, .Mr . Simmons, Mr. Tobin, Mr . Rooney, £1r . Baker, everyone of those who are representing Ne\vfoundland - and including Mr . CY0<; 1Yi ~· and Mr . McGrath - I think there is a lot of fence mending co done, a lot of repairs to be done .

And I think we on this side agree and members on that side agree that all these rr.embers must be fighting up better for Newfoundland . l't'hy did not Z.tr . Crosbie and Hr. HcGrath support that resolution that is goinq throuqh the llous~ •)f Commons? Why not? Two me:11ber from Ne\ ·:foundland. Sc, ~\r . Speaker I th~~ everyone of those members need to be chastised once in a while, need to stand up more often for Newfoundland . And maybe the best thing could hap9en for the Province 'i:c; ,,,h~., "r. ~--•'eau retires in t•vo mont.,c; ~;. r1r-. DR . COLLIN S: Are you going to run? MR. WARREN : ~1r .

SpcakeY', if I do I might try St . John 's West . I am just wondering if I \..rill ha ve the Minister of Finance (Dr . Collins) as my campaign manager . DR . COLLINS: ~R . WARREN : Yes . Sir Okay, there is a promise. I have the Minister of Finance as my carnpaiyn m<:~nager .in the federal district of St . John's t-<es t. DR . COLLINS : •·lR. WARREN : (Inaudible). \oJc 11, ok.ay, you m.:tdc a promise so I hope you hold up to it in the next federal election. ~nyhow, as I ~aid, Mr . Speaker, 7"JO

Muy 18 , 198 2 Tape No. 335 SD - 2 MR. WARREN: in conclujing, I am for the amendment to the resolution and I hope that the members on that side of the House will see fit to support that amendmen'.. Because th <ll: :m1cnclm0nt reaUy telJs what direction this crovernment has been going in for the past number of years and is continuing and is anticipating continuing in the future. Thank you very much. SOME HON. MEMBERS Hear, hear. MR. SPEAKER (RUSSELL) The hon. the member for Grand Bank. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear . MR. MATTHEWS: Mr.

Speaker, first of all I would like to congratulate you on your election to the position in this han. House, Congratulations are also in order for my han. colleagues from Kilbride (Mr. Aylward) ,and St. John's Centre (Dr. McNicholas) and I would also at this time like to congratulate my four hon. colleagues on thc~i r appointments as Parliamentary Secretaries to the bon. Ministers. SOME HON. Mm1BERS: Hear, hear. MR. MATTHEWS: Mr. Speaker, I would indeed like to congratulate all members of this han. House on th(~i r c I cction. Special congratulations are in order to Premier Peckford - SOME HON.

MEMBERS: Hear, hear. MR. Ml\TTHEWS: - who made such an outstanding campaign and was given such an overwhelming mandate by the voters of this great Province. SOr1E HON. :1EMBERS: Hear,hear. MR. MATTHEWS: The fact that all PC incumbents were re-electe d and ten new members voted to the government's side - SOME HON. ME '.'.>ERS: Hear, hear. MR. MATTHEw ·,: - clearly demonstrates the support and confidence the voters of this Province have in 728

May 18, 1982 Tape 336 , PK - 1 MR. MATTHEWS: Premier Peckford and his administration. AN HON. MEMBER: Right on. SOME BON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear MR. MATTHEWS: Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the voters in the Grand Bank district who supported me in the April 6 election. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! PREMIER PECKFORD: And so do we. MR. MATTHEWS: And by doing so, Mr. Speaker, they elected me to look after their interest in this, one of the cleanest and most progressive governments in the whole of Canada. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. STAGG Right on! You got it, boy! MR. MATTHEWS: Mr.

Speaker, the historic fishing district of Grand Bank is one of the most affluent areas of our Province. The uroemployment rate has once again been reduced thanks to the initiative and financial support given to the financially troubled Lake Group by this provincial government. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. MATTHEWS: This financial support saw the opening of the Fortune plant and also the reopening of the more deeply troubled Grand Bank plant. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! l>'lR. MATTHE'(>7S : The co-operation of Premier Peckford and the hon. Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) - MR. STAGG Right. MR .

MATTHEWS: during several months of difficult negotiations with the Lake Group was nothing short of fantastic. SOME BON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! 730

::l May 18, 1982 Tape 336 PK - 2 MR. MA TTHEWS: I say that, Mr. Speaker, having served as a member of the Grand Bank Citizens Committee. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! HR. MATTHEWS: I am also quite pleased to say, Mr. Speaker, that the St. Lawrence fish plant will be back in operation in approximately ten days. Once again the hon. Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) and his department have worked closely and monitored the situation and have rendered invaluable services. However, Mr. Speaker, the St. Lawrence plant is not completely out of difficulty.

There is a great need for expansion and, in particular, a need for freezinq capacity to enable t.he St. Lawrence plant to become a full-time operation. Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased with the recent renovation and improvement that have taken place at the St. Lawrence and Grand Banks hospitals. • It is most encouraging to see these improvements to these facilities even though this government is presently undertaking plans to build a new hospital in the Burin/Marystown area. MR. YOUNG Public works, my boy. MR. MAT'l'HEWS: This provincial government, Mr.

Speaker, is improving existing facilities and at the same time starting construction on new facilities. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. Ml\'P'l'I!P.WS: Mr. Speaker, maybe our federal counter parts should follow the model of this government, a government which does not believe in giveaway, takeaway and trade off ;,>olicies. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! M'R. MJ\ 'l"T'J!F.WS : Mr. Speaker, the most p-rcssincJ hcu.lth c:oncern for my district is the need for a health nurse in the ,.,reater Lamaline area to serve tee corrnnuni ties of Lord's Cove , Point au Gaul, Lamaline, and Point May. 731

t'lay 18, 1982 Tape 336 PK - 3 MR . Joi.ATTHEWS: There are many senior citizens in these communities and they presently have to travel to St. Lawrence and Grand Bank for the slightest medical problem. 1 might say, l1r . Speaker, that my discussion s with the hon . r>linister of Health (~lr . House) and I am optimistic that this problem will be resolved in due course. Mr. Speaker, upon being elected on April 6, I had t·.,o maior transportation problem; within the Grand Bank district, namely the need Eor a new bridge in Grand Bank and improvem ents needed to a s~ction of road known as the Loop Roac tvhich links the communities of La wn and Lord 's Covo . I am pleased to say, 732

May 18, 1982 Tape No. 337 ah-l MR . MATTHEWS : Mr. Speaker, that tenders for the new Grand Bank bridge will be called as of June 1,1982. SOME IION.MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. MI\'I''I'm:ws: Tmprovemcnts to th0 Loop Road is of vital importance, Mr. Speaker, because of its constant usage by residents who have to travel this stretch of road for employment , schooling and health services. MR. PATTERSON: That is action by the new member. MR.MATTHEWS: I am quite confident,however, Mr. Speaker, that this

section of road will be given proper attention by the hon. Minister of Transportation (Mr.Dawe) and his department. Mr. Speaker, representing a Fishing district that is deeply involved in processing and in the catching of fish 1both inshore and offshore,! would be~ remiss if l did not voice concern on behalf of the many inshore fishermen within my district. The inshore fishery on the Burin Peninsula has been a dismal failure for the past three or four years and fishermen, Mr. Speaker, are findin g it very difficult to barely exist. Couple this, Mr.

Speaker, with the harassment and pressure that has been placed on these hard working Newfoundlanders by the National Revenue Minister (Mr. Rompkey) and the consequences are almost unbareable. Mr. Speaker, the inshore fishe ry needs much attention and assistance and I am confident that after the report submitted by the Royal Commission on the inshore fishery this government will once again,in lr ue fashion.demonstrate its concern for and further cEJ elop this vital industry. In conclusion, Mr. Speaker, 733

May 18, 1982 Tape No. 337 A!l-2 MR . t-1ATTHEI~S : I would like to say ho\-.' proud I am to have been elected to this government . I consider it a qrc<lt challenge to be- qivcn the' rc:::ponsi hi I i ry of working on behalf of this ?rovince and in p(lrticular to work on .behalf of the residents of the Grand Hank district. SOME BON • MEMBERS : MR . SPEAKER (AYLi,'ARD) : Recreation and Youth . SO~·ffi HON. ME1'1BERS : MR . SIMMS: 'lear, hear! The hon . Minister of Culture, Hear, hear! Mr. Speaker, you do not know how long I have waited fo-e this moment - at least three years .

First of all 1 1·1am:. to congratulate Mr . Speaker on being elected to the Chair . He is not here, unfortunately, but I know he is in hearing dist(lnce .

And having served iu thdt capacity myself I can understand Lhl.! tremendous responsibility that goes with that particulnr job . 1 do not, of course, have to say it to him anyway because he >vas there before for a period of ~~e and is now really a part of the history or our Province whereby no o~her Speaker, a~ least since Con~ederation, has ever served a term as Speaker, then left politics, and then came back again to be reappointed or re -elected on a second occasion and serve ~s Speaker . So he has become 734

~ / M<ty 18, 1982 Tape No. 338 MJ - 1 MR. J,. SIMMS: truly a part of our Province's h~story.hnd personally speaking,having had the previous experience. [ know he need not need to be reminded the responsibility that cJocs with that particular job. And when he served as Speaker between the years of 1972 and 1975,he exercised that responsibility in a tremendous fashion and I know that he will do it again during the coming term. SOME \ION. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) : Order! MR. SIMMS: I would like to also extend congratulations to you,Mr.

Speaker,the fellow officers who have been recently been elected to such esteemed positions. As a friend .!!Hi t'<>iit'ol'JII(' I l'<>llqi·,Jlili.ltt• I h(• lllt'llllx:r for l<i I bride (Mr. R. Aylward),and I know that you too will exercise the responsibility placed in your hands with a great deal of thoughtfulness. And to our friend and colleague,the member for St. John's Centre (Dr. P. McNicholas),he knows that he has tremendous shoes to fill in that his predecessor ,the member for Humber West (Mr. R.

Baird),filled that position in .J very ;1.dmi rilblc fashion, ;:mel possessed that rare quality whereby he was nppreciated by all members on both sides of this hon. Jiouse. Anoi know that he too,the new Deputy Chairman of Committess, will do a tremendous job. I a.Ro o=xtend congradulations to m:, (Olleaque the hon. member for Harbour Main - Bell Island on his appointment as Minister for Communications (Mr. N. Doyle) in the Cabinet and I wish him much success in his new role in the years ilhead. A word too, Mr. Speaker, a word too of congratulations Lo .111 members of this hon.

House, especially to those who were fortunate cr.ough to be re-elected. /\N llON. MEMBER With a big majority. ----- MR. SIMMS: With a large majority. A large, 735

May 18 , 1982 Tape No . 338 M,J - 2 MR. L . SL"l.MS : whopping majority and obviously, in the eyes of their own constituents,they have done a c:;oo<.l iob of representing ~~em . SOME HON . MEMBERS Hear, hear! MR. SIMI-15: In "articul.u a word of conqt·.ltul .Itio c!' to our brand new members elected co this ho~. House. I~cludcd in that category 1 ~ course, of new members are membo rs who sit only <m l he governme::1t side of the House. SO!'IE HON . MEMBERS : Hear, !lear! MR .

SIMMS : '!'here wer.~ n~> no\v membl•r·s t•l \•r·t ·vd to the other side of the House. 1\nd so to chc tun nc•.v Conservative members representing those staunch Conservative districts. SOME HON . ~1BERS : Hear, hear! MR . S IM!olS : - like 'l'villingate (Mrs . I. Hoid), Grand Bank (Mr . W . t-tatthews), Burin - Placentia West U·ir. G . Tobin), carbonear (Mr . M. Peach) 1 St . ~-1ary's - The Capes (Mr . L. llcarn), Trinity - Bay de Verde (Mr • .J . Reid), Bonavista North (~.r . \~. Cross) , Lewispot'tC (Mr . J . Hus:;!!ll) , SL. ll,tr be (Mr . t-:. n:~111rmd), Bay Verte - \-Jhite Bay (t-1r . T.

Rideout),and one that 1 had some particular close association with and feeling for , the <Jt"Cat 1'0ry district of ~vinsor - Buchans (Mr . J . 11cLennon) . SQr.1E HON . ~ERS : Hear, hear! HR. SIMMS : 'l'o ull of those mC'mbcrs r am --- sure my colleagues across the floor \vould want to join with me l:'l extending a special \"Ore o: congratulations and knowi011 n1ost of them personally~nd having met the others 736

May 18, 1982 Tape 339 EC - l MR. SIMMS: since the election, I think they are tremendously capable individuals, made excellent candidates and will make excellent members, and I am not at all surprised that they were victorious on April 6th and I know they will do a good job for their constituents in their districts. Finally, Mr. Speaker, a word of congratulations to the leader of our party, the Premier of the Province - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SIMMS: - for the great victory that he had personally and as leader of the party on April 6th.

It was a momentous victory, an historical victory and one that will certainly be remembered for a long time to come in the history of our Province. To obtain more than 60 per cent of the popular vote, approximately 85 per cent of the seats in the !louse of Assernbly,is no mean achievement. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SIMMS: And I say to my colleagues in this hon. House that one of the major reasons for that massive victory was that the people of this Province recognized in the Premier the leadership qualities which arc so necessary to lead this Province at this time in our history.

They recognized him as the leader and the Premier who will be our chief spokesman, as an individual who is sincere in his convictions and determined to get things done that will be done for the betterment of all the people of this Province. And I know I speak on behalf of all my colle ~gues on this side of the House in particular when I o>:J.y that we were all very, very proud to have been c ·~.sociated with him as candidates and now to be 737

May 18,1982 Tape 339 EC - 2 MR. SIMMS: a member and a colleaque of his in the House of Assembly. Let me say, Mr. Speaker, that over the course of the last three years since June, 1979, I have been a member of this hon. House of Assembly. However, this is my maiden speech, the first opportunity, really, that I have ever had to speak in any debate in this Douse. It is Lhc first session, of course, that I have even had a seat to sit in in the House, except for that esteemed seat which you now hold.

May I say that I am proud to have been only the sixth Speaker since Confederation in Newfoundland, and it will remain that way for another few years, by the way. MR. YOUNG: yet? MR. SIMMS: Got your picture painted My picture? They put it out on tender and they are going to do a full width portrait- SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SIMMS: one side to the other, full width. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SIMMS: - that will go right from Hear, hear! ~nd it is only just and rjsht and proper. In any event, I will continue to be only the sixth Speaker, oL .course, because ~1r.

Speaker now will serve as the fourth and the seventh Speaker since Confederation. I was very, very proud, of course, to have served the Province in that particular position and I tremendously enjoyed the role,by the way. And I can assure all hon. members that there is definitely a challenge associated with that particular position, a very, very responsible position and one which requires a great deal of tact and thought. However, as I said, there have only been six, but I suppose there have been - what? - a couple or hundred 738

May 18, 1982 Tape 339 EC - 3 MR. SIMMS: Cabinet ministers since Confeder~tion? MR. YOUNG: Yes. MR. SIMMS: Anybody can be a Cabinet minister, right? But not too many have been Speakers. So I am grateful to the members of the House, 739

May 18, 1982 Tape No. 340 NM - 1 MR. SIMMS: those who have left the other side,l am grateful to them for electing me to that position. However, like any normal, red-blooded Newfoundlander who is active in politics today, any normal red-blooded Newfoundlander, obviously one who is interested in getting involved in the decision making process of government, and I suppose becoming involved in a little more partisan nature with politics, I am no exception to that , so I am looking forward to my new role with even more vigor and renewed enthusiasm, Mr.

Speaker, than ever before and I am grateful for the opportunity that I have now been given. April 6th. general election Mr. Speaker, the results of the believe do constitute an over- whelming endorsement of the position taken by this government on the Province's resources- SOME HON. MEMBERS MR. SIMMS: Hear, hear~ - especially on offshore resources, and I am sure there can be no doubt in anybody's mind that the people of this Province firmly support this government's determination to maintain control of our resources and heritage.

And the expression of support they gave this government's policies was clearly reflected in the Throne Speech, which was read by His Honour just a few days ago. So this government has clearly shown its commitment to the fishery, through its efforts in recent months in particular, and we recognize that only through the development of a vibrant fishing industry can we have a stronq rural and provincial economy. We know that no other renewable resource offers the potential associated with our fishing resources.

This government has shown, and is showing, a responsible attitude and approach to improvement in the fishery from the great fishing district of Grand Falls. 7411

M;:~y 18, 1982 Tape No . 340 NM - 2 MR. SIMMS : ---- The government has also demonstrated, Mr. Speaker, its determination to attain £or the people of this Province their rightful share in development of offshore oil and gas . It is determined to get an agreement that ensures that maximum benefits will accrue to this Provin ce and to the people of this Province.

And chis commitment I feel certain will not be undermined, nor broken, and 1 know that I for one, and I am sure my colleagues t.>n Lhis side of the House support the government 's effort in thnt rc<Jard, and there can be no doubt that the people of this Province support the government's effort in this regard as evidenced by the massive vote given 7 4 "i ~

May 18,1982 Tape No. 341 ah-1 MR. SIMMS: to the government on April 6,1982. The government has outlined its initiatives and intent to manage all the resources of the Province. The forestry, the mining, agriculture, tourism, are all clearly being responsibly managed and will continue to play a major role in the future. And clearly the social objectives as shewn and demonstrated by this government, are something which we can all be proud of.

The government is committed to continue this course of action until resource ownership and control rests with the people of this Province and the benefits of the resources flow to them. And the government's intention in this regard was clearly outlined again in the Throne Speech. I would now like to turn my attention briefly to my own district of Grand Falls which I am very proud to represent and which I have been fortunate enough to represent since June of 1979. I want to first of all, Mr.

Speaker,to express my sincere thanks to the more than seventy per cent of the electorate which in April of this year saw fit to re-elect me as their member. SOME HON.MEMBERS: Hear , hear! MR. SIMMS: I know I do not come close to the hon. member for Torngat Mountains (Mr. Warren) who , I believe, was second and I certainly do not come close to you, Mr. Speaker (Aylward) , who I believe had U1e distinction of having the highest personal percentage of the vote. So that is something to be proud of as well. MR. NEARY: We will change that the next time. MR.

SIMMS: Yes, maybe there is something in that but I better not mention it . • 742

L •- May 18,1982 Tape No. 341 ah-2 MR. SIMMS: In any event, Mr. Speaker, I am very grateful to my constituents and pledge my own determination to continue to work on their behalf throughout the coming years. The town and district of Grand Falls is the industrial base of the Exploits Valley in Central Newfoundland and is a community with a population in excess of 9,000 people. The Abitibi- Price Pulp and Paper mill is the major source of employment. However,there are a number of other forms of secondary service industries 1including government of fices for just about every department , of government.

Besides being the heart of Central Newfoundland,in the Central part of the Province,Grand Falls is ideally located for industry 1 offering access to all major markets by land, sea or air. There are rail and container facilities in the town. The town of Botwood,which is represented by my colleague the member for Exploits (Mr. Twomey), is just twenty minutes away or so- twenty miles away. The port of Lewisporte,represented by Mr. Speaker,is approximately thirty-five miles away from the town which has a great port. Both are easily accessible by rail and highway.

Air services provided at Gander are less than one hour's drive from Grand Falls. In fact,major firms have recently recognized the advantages of locating in Grand Falls. Terra Transport, Day and Ross Transportation Company Limited and a number of other firms have 743

May 18, 1982 Tape 342 EC - 1 MR. SIMMS: recently designated Grand Falls as their major distribution centre for all of Central Newfoundland.

We have an abundance of serviced resi­ dential, commercial and industrial parking lots, building lots, areas blessed with a number of parks, campsites, including well-equipped playgrounds, modern schools and churches, all of which are centrally located. \'le have a golf course, excellent recreation, shopping and banking facilities, hunting and fishinq and other tourist attractions, three radio stations, a major newspaper, several modern hotels and motels, as well as excellent library and museum facilities.

The town of Grand Falls has one of the largest hospitals in the Province, the C0ntral Ncwfoundlnnd Regional Health Referral Centre. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SIMMS: Indeed, Grand Falls is one of the most modern and fastest growing communities in this Province and many exciting events will occur in the corning months in Central Newfoundland - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR.

SIMMS: - with the activity, in particular, in the Botwood area, related to offshore services, the activity relating to the provincial government's initiatives and the paper company's initiatives related to the forest industry which will, of course, center around Grand Falls, and as a result, a number of firms, as I said, have indicated interest in establishing distribution centres and others have indicated interest in expanding their present enterprises. So I am very, very optimistic about the future of the district and the town of Grand Falls. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! 744

May Ja, 1982 Tape No . 342 EC-2 MR. SI:-IMS : NO\., this government in the last few years has been very generous to the town of Grand £'".;~Us . Ne are still looking for more things , ol course , and we will get them, I am sure. Grand Falls hns been very, very genero us to the Province . We have been able co obtain a number of things over the years including a new aerial fire ladder for the town, which has been sought after for years and years and years - SOME liON . ~ID1BERS : Hear , hear! MR. S IMI'1S : - a new overpass costing millions of dollars . SOl'tr-: liON . MP.~1BP.RS : -·--- Henr, hear ! l'-llt .

SIMMS: The revenue grant to the town has increased substantially because of new legislation . MR . S'rEWART : And the member . t1R . SU1l'1S : And the member . We have received a fair share of the number of project grants under the Community Development programme of the Department of Social Services, excellent projects, by the way, which are extremely beneficial . We have received a number of recreation grants and will probably get more , and leadership grants in the t01.,rn .

There have been some provincial offices opened or expanded in the town; the Workers ' Compensation Board recently opened an o!fice and they employed four people; llw ul I in~ of the Newt oundJ..tnd ;;~nd l,abr<ldor Housing Corporatio n \-.las created in the last few years, since J became a member , and the Central Newfoundland Regional llealth Centre has received a number of contributions towards new X ray machines and units, and other funding W"ls received tor v.:1rious renovation s, incluclinq more tl1an h.;lt a uillion dollars tor 7 4 '-, ~

May 18, 1982 Tape No. 343 SD - .l MR. SIMMS: renovating the much needed n'-'w laboratory which will be beneficial not only to the citizens in the area but, in particular will be very beneficial to the workers. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear . MR. SIMMS: I was very pleased with that. In addition, the Grand Falls Central Newfoundland Hospital is included in the government's five year plcln. Aml 1 am very pleased to see in the Throne Speech that the government's commitment to health care services in the Province will continue and is, in fact, contuining on stream and on schedule.

And after a number of years of uncl!rtainty, T am very pleas<'d that thC' cJnvc'l-1111\<'nt und<'l t <>nk the five year programme and we look forward very much indeed to the next fiscal year when the planning and design work and so on will have begun for the start of a major expansion of the Central Newfoundland Hospital in Grand Falls. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear. MR. SIMMS: We have received, Mr.

Speaker, a fair contribution in expenditures from the Province and from this provincial government,including construction of twenty-four additional senior citizens' cottages at an anticipated cost of approximately $800,000. The town has received fair contributions towards the 60/40 cost -share programme of re-construction ann road paving. The trunk sewer development [or the G.rcrfell llei<Jhts c~r·cu c1lld tile' Grand Falls East area is just about completed at a cost of over $2 million,for which both by coileague the member for Exploits (Dr.

Twomey) and I are very grateful_ And, of course, the Department of Forest Resources and Lands have undertaken major projects at the three nursery facilities in the Wooddale area which , while it is in the district of Exploit~ is in close proximity to the town of Grand Falls, and 746

M,ly 18, 1982 Tape No . 343 SD - 2 ~iR . STM.'lS: this expenditure of over $2 million provifled a fair number of jobs . Now, nr . Speaker, time does not permit me to qn on but I believe that - t<lR.

S'l'EWART : Yes, boy go on . ~1R . $ fMMS: - d0spite thr f~ct that the L'Conomy 1n .:he whole of North l\mer1ca !'las not: been extremely active, I think it is fair to say that we have been able to 9et a reasonable share of the programmes available durinc1 the past couple of years and I know that it will continue in the years to come . \ve certainly have been able to mai ntain some activit~ with increased emphasis on reforestation projects .

The projects at Wooddale, Price (Nfld .) reforestation project , the opportunities in parks , the commun1ty development projects under the Department of Socinl Services , construction of the new senior citizens' cottaqcs, the $2 million trunk sewer project , the $300,000 for road upqradinq and st reet construction in the town hi'\Vt' :-11 1 11clpc<1 t<> proviue some economic stimulus for pur community . And I think they have helped to keep the economy of the area at least on the move and surely have had a positive effect .

I \vas delighted as well in my ongoing attempts to qivc the provincial government more presence in the town of Grand Falls . I was delighted that several Cabinet Ministers have visited the town on many occasions for various meetinqs and so on . In addition, the hon .the Premier and his entire cabinet met for a very historic meeting during November of 1980 . It \~as a very eventful and mcaorable occasion for our town . Mr . Speaker, T hC'l iC'V<' the :1st. imnnrr;'lnt" thinq for 747

May 18,,1982 Tape 344 PK - l MR. SIMMS: any member to do in this House, any legislator for that matter,or any member of any parliament, is to make himself available to his constituents. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. SIMMS: I have attempted to do that. I trust that all members are going to attempt to do the same thing. I want to continue this kind of representation. I hope that it will be looked upon favourably by my constituents when the time comes again to go to the polls. MR. PATTERSON 1\ffi. RIDEOUT MR. SIMMS: There is no doubt Jbout thnt You were awful close the other dJy, though. Yes that is true.

I know that with the help and the support of this government the district that I represent, the district of Grand Falls,will continue to improve itself SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. SIMMS: - and will continue to receive benefits as a result of having a member on the government side of the House of Assembly. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SIMMS: I know that with the help and support of the government we will continue to receive those benefits. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER (AYLWARD) MRS. I. REID: Hear, hear! The hon. member for Twillingate. Mr.

Speaker, first let me take the opportunity to conqratulate the Speaker on his election to this hon. House as Mr. Speaker. Also I want to congratulate you as Deputy Speaker as well as Chairman of Committees. Most importantly I want to congratulate our Premier who has won such a tremendous victory in this past election. I also want to congratulate my colleagues who have been recently appointed to their new positions. 748

May 18, 1982 Tape 344 PK - 2 MRS . REID : Mr . Speaker, I feel that I must make mention or the amendmen t to the Throne Speech that was brought into this hon . !louse yesterday. This, !11r . Speaker, is none other than ,, non-confidence motion and one ~-thich I certainly have no intention of supporting . SOME HON . MEMBERS: Hear, hear ~ MRS . REID This government has reiterated iLs position to the responsible and planned development of our t'CHources .

Mcl 1 support l:hc government stand on the emphasis placed on its belief for the provincial control over resource management so that our standard of living may be equal to other Canadians . Mr. Speaker, my district, TWillingate district, i. :is solely depen~ent on the fishery. I was, therefore, greatly astonisheu to learn that the Federal Governmen~ had, in 1981, agreed to give a"1ay to Russian fishermen 232 million pounds of fish from within our 200 mile limit. SOME liON . MEMBERS : !llRS. REID : Hear, hear~ And I was more than shocked, Mr .

Speaker, to learn that 23 .6 million pounds of this was caplin . r-tr.speaker, T\-'illinqate fish plant ' employ some '500 people during the fishing season ,and Herring Neck some 749

May 18, 1982 Tape No. 345 MJ - l MRS. I. REID: 200 people while Bridge Port olant employs fifty to sixty people during the fishing season. Those plants are dependant on the inshore fishery, cod, turbot, mackerel, herring, rays, squid and caplin. Yes, Mr. Speaker, squid and caplin. And to see the federal government in Ottawa giving away this fish which is our birthright is unreal. How c~n it be said therP ar~ rnn manv fishPrman for too few fish? SOME HON. MEMBER Inhuman. MRS. REID 'l'hen.' L!l"'-' ll()L Luo 11\dllY lisht'lll \l'l1 for too many fish.

For too fe1v fish, I am sorry. 'l'hc problem is that our fish are being given away to other countries while our fishermen are suffering and1 this cannot be allowPo rn happen,Mr.Speaker. I saw in my district, this past year _ SOME HON. MEMBERS MRS.