April

16, 2008

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS

Vol. XLVI No. 12

The House met at 2:00 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Fitzgerald): Order, please!

Admit strangers.

Today we welcome representatives from the Newfoundland and Labrador Credit

Union. Joining us are Chief Operating Officer, Glenn Bolger and Chief Financial

Officer, Elizabeth Duff.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Today, the House of Assembly also welcomes representatives

from the Canadian Federation of Students. In attendance is Katherine Giroux-Beaugard,

Provincial Chairperson, and Keith Dunne, Project Organizer.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Welcome to the House of Assembly.

Statements by Members

MR. SPEAKER: Members' statements today are from the hon. the Member for

the District of Burgeo & LaPoile, the hon. the Member for the District of

Mount Pearl North, the hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave, the

hon. the Member for the District of Kilbride, the hon. the Member for the

District of Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair, and the hon. the Member for the

District of Topsail.

I call on the hon. the Member for the District of Burgeo & LaPoile.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to recognize and congratulate the Ducats on becoming the

recipients of the 2008 Stompin' Tom Award at the East Coast Music Association

Award ceremony recently in Fredericton, New Brunswick.

The award is presented annually in recognition of the unsung heroes of the

East Coast Music industry. The Ducats, along with their signature Newfoundland

tartan vest, were a rock and roll band started in the late 1950s in Port aux

Basques and throughout the 1960s, constantly toured throughout the Province,

Eastern Canada and the New England area.

Although there were many changes in band members throughout the years, the

originators were all from Port aux Basques and included: Lewis (Butch) Skinner,

who is in the gallery today, Jim Crewe, Bob Battiste, Winston Blackmore, Joe

Willis, Art Bragg, Gerald Carter and the late Roger Skinner.

Many other well-known Newfoundland musicians, of course, were part of the

Ducats over the years, including Mr. Claude Caines, Joe Bolus, Billy Smith, Dave

Parsons and Gord Tracey. Yours truly was made an honourary Ducat in 1995, and I

had the honour of singing with them at the Mile One in 2002.

They rocked the Old Mill here in St. John's, Memorial University, and the

Argentia base and the Chignic Lodge for years, to the delight of thousands,

young and old.

Although the band is acknowledged as one of the first and best rock and roll

bands from Eastern Canada, they hold a special place in the hearts of the people

of the Port aux Basques area. They still play from time to time, and they have

not lost a beat.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this House to join with me in extending

congratulations to the Ducats on receiving this prestigious Stompin' Tom

Award. Rock on Ducats!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Mount Pearl North.

MR. KENT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise in this hon. House today to congratulate the Frosty Festival

organizing committee and the City of Mount Pearl on celebrating the twenty-sixth

annual Frosty Festival this past February.

The Frosty Festival was, once again, a huge success, with most events this

year selling out. Special thanks are in order to the Frosty Festival Board of

Directors, the sponsors, the volunteers, as well as to City of Mount Pearl, for

contributing to the Festival's success. This event has truly become an

important tradition in Mount Pearl. Every year I personally look forward to

attending as many of the events as I can. There is truly something for everyone

in this festival. It is one of the best winter festivals in Canada. It is a

great opportunity for the community to come together and it is a great

celebration for our region and our Province.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this House to join me in congratulating the

Frosty Festival Committee and the City of Mount Pearl in hosting another

tremendous winter carnival.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Canadian Idol alumni and Upper Island Cove native, Craig Sharpe, recently won

the Ovation Star Search Contest. Since placing second in the Canadian Idol

competition, Sharpe has been working hard. Finally everything is falling into

place for him.

On March 28, 2008, he competed against nine other finalists throughout Canada

and was selected by David Foster, and a panel of three other judges, to perform

at the Crescendo Gala in Halifax.

Mr. Speaker, the event raised $1.6 million for the David Foster Foundation.

The funds help families by paying for the non-medical expenses of children who

need life-saving organ transplants.

Craig not only won the opportunity to perform with Lionel Richie, Natalie

Cole and others, but also received a $25,000 contract with a casino to be named

later.

I ask all hon. members to join me in wishing Craig Sharpe every success in

the future.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Kilbride.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DINN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

In this day and age, we constantly hear about inactive and overweight

children. Much concern is expressed about this situation, and parents and

schools are being encouraged to get their children moving.

Many of our schools in this Province have gotten this message and have

responded with positive action. One such school is Hazelwood Elementary in St.

John's. At Hazelwood Elementary there are many opportunities for the students

to be active with regular physical education class as well as sports programs.

Basketball is a very popular program at Hazelwood. Hazelwood boasts Grade 5

and Grade 6 boys and girls basketball teams. Recently, Hazelwood Elementary

hosted a Grade 5 Invitational Basketball Tournament on the weekend of February

15-17. Four teams from the surrounding schools participated with Hazelwood. Many

parents and other students showed up for this event, and I am glad to say that

the Hazelwood Hurricanes emerged as the Grade 5 Champions.

Members of the winning team were: Haley Ivey, Robin Collins, Kristen Gillis,

Kayla Thompson, Jennifer Sandifer, McKenzie Strait, Taylor O'Donnell, Chelsea

Sullivan, Faith Simpson, Brittany Hanlon, Faith Bursey and Jane Qi. The coach

was Jason Thompson, and Assistant Coach Cassandra Furlong.

I ask all members of this hon. House to join me in congratulating the Grade 5

students of Hazelwood Elementary, their coaches and the school itself, for such

a worthwhile event.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Cartwright-L'Anse

au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, it is with great pleasure that I rise in the House today and

extend sincere congratulations to Claude Normore on being honoured by the

Canadian Coast Guard Auxiliary with a twenty-five year service award. Mr.

Normore is a native of L'Anse au Loup and has served as a volunteer rescuer

for over twenty-five years.

These awards are presented by the Canadian Coast Guard Auxiliary annually to

volunteer rescuers from Newfoundland and Labrador, and Mr. Normore received his

award on the twenty-ninth Annual General Meeting and Awards Banquet that was

held in Corner Brook this past fall.

Mr. Normore is a dedicated volunteer and has served unselfishly with the

Auxiliary since becoming a member twenty-five years ago. During this time, he

has served as representative for the Labrador District for twelve years, and has

been responsible for assisting numerous mariners in peril.

Mr. Speaker, there are 1,000 members of the Canadian Coast Guard Auxiliary,

and every year they respond to over 100 calls and donate some 6,000 hours in

support of maritime search and rescue activities in our Province. Mr. Normore is

a proud member of this organization, and his efforts are certainly appreciated

and honoured.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of the House to join me in congratulating

Claude Normore on receiving the Canadian Coast Guard Auxiliary twenty-five year

service award.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Topsail

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS E. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I rise in this hon. House today to congratulate eighteen young

authors attending Holy Family School in Paradise.

Mr. Speaker, each year, Scholastic Canada sponsors a Kids Are Authors

competition. In 2007, the students of Ms Florence Power's Grade 1 class,

assisted by Ms Costello, wrote and illustrated their book entitled Winter

Alphabet . Scholastic Canada was thrilled to recognize the students'

outstanding effort and acknowledge that Winter Alphabet was one of nine

finalists out of 202 entries. Earlier this year, Winter Alphabet was

published and subsequently launched in February 2008.

Mr. Speaker, the students who authored this book are as follows: Gregory

Adams, Curtis Chafe, Noah Glynn, Alex King, Abbey Parker, Meghan Stone, Emma

Brockerville, Haley Dunn, Andrew Hadfield, Clare Marshall, Brianna Power, Adam

Whitten, Nicholas Burton, Cody Follett, Juanita Head, Stephen Martin, Ethan Rose

and Rachel Hindy.

Mr. Speaker, I do have a personally autographed copy of the book with me here

today, if any member would like to see it. The book is wonderfully written and

beautifully illustrated by the students.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all Members of this House of Assembly to join me in

congratulating the students, Ms Power and Ms Costello, on this significant and

unique achievement.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Statements by Ministers.

Statements by Ministers

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am going to take a liberty here. I would like to add comments of welcome to

the members of the Ducats.

While the Opposition House Leader was speaking, it certainly brought memories

back of I think it was an evening in July in 1964 at Steel Mountain Lodge. I was

an impressionable high school student when I was there, but I can tell you they

gave new meaning to the term: The joint was rockin'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, the need for strong financial professionals

within our Province is indeed growing. The Department of Finance is very pleased

to announce that by working in partnership with the Institute of Chartered

Accountants of Newfoundland and Labrador and the Canadian Institute of Chartered

Accountants, the Office of the Comptroller General, Department of Finance, has

been accredited as a Chartered Accountant training office.

This unique professional training opportunity was previously only available

to individuals in the Province who were employed either by chartered accounting

firms or by the Office of the Auditor General. The training program that has now

been developed by the Office of the Comptroller General has met the rigorous

standards of work experience and competency development required for this

professional program and was approved by the Institute of Chartered Accountants

for Newfoundland and Labrador on March 14, 2008.

Mr. Speaker, the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador is the first province

in the country where the Department of Finance has received this accreditation.

We are indeed very proud to be one of the leaders in providing this new

opportunity to aspiring finance professionals.

Mr. Speaker, this certification represents a positive step forward for the

Province's overall human resource requirements by expanding the opportunities

available to train professionally designated accountants and increasing the

number of university graduates to be employed in our Province.

Our Province of Newfoundland and Labrador is pleased to provide a training

environment which meets the standards of the well-respected Chartered

Accountants profession. In addition to the new program to train Chartered

Accountants, the provincial government, as hon. members are probably aware,

currently provides a training environment for Certified Management Accountants

and Certified General Accountant students as well.

I would ask all members of the House to join me in congratulating the

Comptroller General and the Office of the Comptroller General on becoming an

accredited Chartered Accountant training office.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I appreciate the minister providing me with an advance copy of his statement.

This ranks right up there with the Minister of Business' Ministerial

Statement some time ago. It is obvious that the spin doctors are gearing up

again. We must be approaching a polling period a couple of weeks out. If this is

the stuff that the Minister of Finance has to bring special statements to in the

House, I would say we are in serious shape.

I would say there is a more pertinent question out there today rather than

this, with all due respect, like: when can the people expect to see the Budget,

would be a more logical question. I thought, in fact, when I opened the envelope

that is what we were going to hear.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I thank the minister of the advanced copy. I am glad to see this new venture

within the Office of the Comptroller General. It will be a new training

opportunity for young people. With this in the hands of government, it does give

government an opportunity to make sure that young people from around the

Province get this training because young people from around the Province study

at the university.

I also, of course, encourage the government to make sure we look for equality

of the students who are involved in the training as well, with regard to women

as well as men. I would like to see the government put more effort into other

areas with regard to training, especially with regard to apprenticeships for

women in areas that have been male dominated.

Thank you very much.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers?

The hon. the Minister of Government Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. O'BRIEN: Mr. Speaker, I had the pleasure last week of attending the

Newfoundland and Labrador Credit Union's fiftieth anniversary celebrations. As

the minister responsible for the Credit Union Deposit Guarantee Corporation, I

am responsible for ensuring that credit unions are in compliance with

legislation and sound business practices. The Newfoundland and Labrador Credit

Union is certainly an excellent example of the success story of credit Unions in

this Province.

In fifty years, the Newfoundland and Labrador Credit Union has grown to be

not only the largest credit union in the Province, but also in Atlantic Canada.

They have twelve branches across the Province and in eight years they have

doubled their asset base to more than $343 million today. They employ 125

Newfoundlanders and Labradorians and they contribute $22 million annually to the

provincial economy.

Mr. Speaker, not many people will know of the many firsts which can be

attributed to the Newfoundland and Labrador Credit Union. In 1978, they were the

first financial institution in this Province to have a computerized banking

system. In 1988, they were the first financial institution in this Province to

have a drive-thru teller service, and it was not an ATM service but an actual

person. In 2005, they were the first financial institution in the country to

offer an energy-efficient mortgage product for which they have received national

awards.

These are the accomplishments of the Newfoundland and Labrador Credit Union.

However, there are other firsts for the national credit union system too. Credit

unions were the first to offer daily interest savings accounts to Canadians, ATM

services, biweekly mortgage payments, online banking and, believe it or not,

credit unions were the first to offer loans to women on their signature.

Mr. Speaker, the success of credit unions is that they are owned by their

members. In this Province, the credit union system has thirteen credit unions

with offices in forty locations, thirty of those in rural areas. The credit

union system has about 51,000 members and assets in excess of $632 million. The

system employs 312 people.

I know, Mr. Speaker, and you referenced them, officials from the Newfoundland

and Labrador Credit Union are in the public gallery today and even though you

have officially acknowledged them, I would also welcome them to our House.

I would also like to congratulate the Newfoundland and Labrador Credit Union

last week on their fiftieth anniversary and I would ask all my hon. colleagues

to join with me today in recognizing their significant achievement.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I want to thank the minister for an advanced copy of his statement, and to say

that we on this side of the House also want to congratulate the Newfoundland and

Labrador Credit Union on their fiftieth anniversary. Publicly, I have to

apologize to them. I did respond that I would be attending but then, due to

personal reasons, at the last minute I was unable to attend.

Truly, as the minister has stated, what a success story when you see all the

accomplishments and the firsts that this group have achieved in our Province.

They are truly to be commended. I guess, like the statement says, it is the

membership that really makes the success. I also want to commend the 51,000

members who make up the Newfoundland and Labrador Credit Union and to say to

them we wish them every success in the future, congratulate them on their

fiftieth anniversary and to say they are to be commended, not only - they are

tremendous employees when we know that 312 people throughout our Province are

employed.

Once again, I congratulate them and wish them every success.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thanks to the minister for the advanced copy. I, too, am very happy to stand

here and congratulate the Newfoundland and Labrador Credit Union today as well.

I, too, had hoped to attend the gathering last week, but at the last minute

could not. So I am very happy to stand here today and tell them how happy I am

for them.

When the minister spoke about credit unions being the first to offer loans to

women, it is not surprising because credit unions are committed to communities

and community development. The Newfoundland and Labrador credit union has given

real leadership here in this Province with regard to that commitment. They have

been sort of a beacon to other credit unions as well. In the growth of that

whole movement, I think they have a real role to play in.

It is the credit unions, for example, who have gone in where chartered banks

have left communities. This credit union went into many, one that comes to mind

is Gambo, where they went in and made sure people in that area had financial

services when banks moved out. Of course, we all know the wonderful story of

Eagle River. I am surprised that my colleague, the Leader of the Official

Opposition, did not stand and talk about that because that is such a tremendous

story of the role that credit unions play in the growth of the community, and

the whole relationship with the fishing industry there is a story to be told as

well.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I know I have run my time.

MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers?

Oral questions.

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My questions are for the Minister of Health and Community Services.

Mr. Speaker, it is reported in today's Telegram that another

pathologist has resigned from the Eastern Health Authority.

I ask the minister: Have you received any information as to why Dr. Beverley

Carter has tendered her resignation, and will you provide it to the House of

Assembly?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I understand that Eastern Health has received a resignation from a

pathologist. As to why she may have resigned, I have no idea, Mr. Speaker, but I

understand she has resigned. I want to advise members of the House, that Eastern

Health has been successful in being able to have - initiated discussions with

three pathologists who have expressed an interest in coming with Eastern Health.

They are hopeful that in the very near future they will be able to confirm the

appointments of those three individuals to be able to replace some of the

individuals who have resigned over the last year or so.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, we already know there is a shortage of actually

five pathologists at Eastern Health. Dr. Carter's resignation now will make

that six. We are aware that they may be recruiting one person, we certainly were

not aware of three.

I ask the minister, if he can provide to the House of Assembly an update on

the shortages of pathologists throughout all the health boards in the Province,

please?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: As I understand it, and maybe the member opposite's

information is more current than mine, but as I understand it, there were four

vacancies, and the most recent announcement makes five.

As I said a moment ago, there are three potential candidates that are being

recruited. Eastern Health Authority is very optimistic that they will be able to

conclude the discussions with those individuals and announce their appointments

soon. As I understand it as well, there is one other vacancy in Eastern - I

think it is in Clarenville - and there is another vacancy, I am not sure if it

is in Central or Western, but there is one other in either Western or Central.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Just to let the minister know, the information I quoted to him I received

within the last two hours from Eastern Health.

Mr. Speaker, it is time for government to recognize that this is a growing

problem and not lambaste the people who are reporting the information, like we

saw last week in the media. Last year, Dr. Maung completed a review of the

issues facing pathologists in our Province.

I ask the minister: When is government going to act on this report and

address the issues of recruitment and retention before we start seeing more

vacancies?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, I think the hon. Leader of the Opposition

is referring to a comment I made last week when I appeared before the media.

I expressed a concern generally, I think, which the media might have taken

personally at the time, but it was not intended to be that way, that headlines

that talk about pathologists and pathologist recruitment do affect health care

in the Province, just as the inquiry and just as this whole matter which is the

subject of the inquiry does affect recruitment. It makes it more difficult.

So, in trying to deal with the inquiry, that is why it is so important that

we strike this delicate balance with allowing the inquiry to its business

without politicizing what is going on; because we as a government still have to

run the government and still have to try and provide the best health care that

we can to the people of this Province.

When pathologists and specialists are sitting back in clear conscience and

looking at this and seeing general criticism rolling out, then I think they are

going to second-guess whether Newfoundland and Labrador is going to be a good

place for them to practice their specialty.

A word of caution just generally, that this is a very delicate matter and

that we handle it very delicately on an ongoing basis, because I think the

referral was to a comment I made last week.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

That was not a response to my question.

I guess my next question would be: Has government taken the time to actually

meet with these pathologists, to find out what the core of these issues is and

how they can be improved or fixed?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, I received a letter today from the

Newfoundland and Labrador Medical Association. I received it just around

lunchtime, actually. It was a lengthy letter indicating this trouble that

physicians are having as a result of this. I am just going to read a paragraph

to you which I think is important: Physicians, especially pathologists and

oncologists, are not immune to the same emotional trauma and anguish that has

cast its shadow over the affected patients, their families and the public at

large. Ironically, they have been restrained from expressing the kind of remorse

and sympathy that they would normally be inclined to offer all their patients

because of the legal uncertainties that loom ahead.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: There is a growing frustration that the picture has

been painted unfairly.

They have actually requested, at the end of this letter, a meeting with me,

and myself and the minister will most definitely be meeting with them.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I think, in light of the situation, it is more than past due time for

government to seriously address the problem.

Mr. Speaker, we know that the workload of pathologists at the lab has

increased by 29 per cent from 1999 to 2005. We also know that one of the

recommendations was to establish a second lab at Memorial Hospital in Corner

Brook.

I ask if government is prepared to establish that laboratory.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, one of the recommendations in that report that

she refers to deals with compensation. You might recall, Mr. Speaker, in this

House last spring I announced I think it was around the middle of May

that government had announced an increase in the stipend paid to pathologists,

to bring them more competitive with other jurisdictions in the country, I say,

Mr. Speaker. That was one of the first steps we took last year, and that has

been in place almost a year now.

With respect to the recommendation of the second laboratory in the Western

Region to conduct ER-PR tests, at this particular point in time, until the

Commission of Inquiry is through and we have an understanding through that

process of what may have happened with ER-PR testing at Eastern Health during

the period 1997 to 2005 but, more importantly, one of the other questions we

asked the inquiry to answer was: Is the current method of testing at Eastern

Health a reflection of current best practices? - until we get an understanding

of what we are now doing with the one and only lab that conducts ER-PR tests, we

are not prepared to start thinking about the second location.

When we get that commission's report, then we will turn our minds to the

question at hand.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I need to remind the minister that the $50,000 to $60,000 that he talks about

barely put Newfoundland and Labrador on par with the rest of Atlantic Canada,

and I think he knows that, and this is in an occupational area where we have

seen a 32 per cent turnover in the number of pathologists taking those positions

in the last four years.

Mr. Speaker, Eastern Health have confirmed that Dr. Beverley Carter is the

only pathologist specializing in breast cancer at that hospital. Noting the

professional void that will now be left at Eastern Health, come June, I ask the

minister: What plans does he have to meet with Eastern Health to ensure that any

delays in diagnoses and wait lists for cancer patients is offset?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, that discussion is taking place as we speak,

actually.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My first question is for the Minister of Justice.

Minister, it was reported in the media, The Independent , actually, on

April 4, that you had in fact received a report which you had commissioned last

fall into certain deficiencies which might or might not exist in the justice

system with regard to how quick trials proceed and so on. The report indicated

that you, in fact, had a report dealing with that. I am just wondering: When

might we expect to have that report released publicly?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KENNEDY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I can indicate to the Opposition House Leader that we do, in fact, have that

report, that I have reviewed the same, that there are certain practical,

budgetary and legislative issues that we have to look at.

For the information of the Opposition House Leader, it is a very good report

and I expect you will be able to see it early next week.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My next question is for the Minister of Education.

On March 29, the Telegram broke a story about a series of engineering

reports that had been done on two St. John's schools, namely Bishops College

and Holy Heart of Mary. The story indicated that, although the school boards had

made decisions based upon those reports some four months ago, the reports still

have not been released.

I ask the Minister of Education: When might we expect to see these reports

released?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, we recently received the final drafts of this

report. They are finalized and I expect we will probably be releasing them in

the next week or so.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My next question is for the Minister Responsible for the Workplace Health,

Safety and Compensation Commission.

Everybody in the Province is familiar with certain frustrations that have

been felt by clients with the Workplace Health, Safety and Compensation

Commission. In fact, government, in response to that, commissioned a report

looking into client service issues back in May 2007. I understand the report was

received, actually, in May 2007 - it had been commissioned before that and

that report has been in the department's hands now some 335 days. I am

wondering if the minister can tell us when it is likely to be released publicly.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Human Resources, Labour and

Employment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SKINNER: Mr. Speaker, the report that the hon. member refers to is

not a report that was commissioned by me or by this government. It was an

internal document that the commission itself is using. I have not seen the

report myself, but I understand that the commission management have used the

report and are making some changes to their system based upon that.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Just as a follow-up to that, can the minister undertake to

see that the report is made public? Can it be made public?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Human Resources, Labour and

Employment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SKINNER: Mr. Speaker, I will undertake to ascertain the contents of

that report and have it tabled here in the House of Assembly, yes.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My next question is for the Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation.

On November 22, 2007, the media broke a story about certain reports done by

that department concerning the future use of the Colonial Building. The report

itself, apparently, cost $200,000 and it has still not been released by

government.

I ask the minister: When can we expect to see that report released?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JACKMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Indeed, the report is in its final stage. Second to that, and very much a

part of, is federal funding. We are awaiting confirmation from the federal

government as to whether they are going to support that project, and I

anticipate that will be announced rather shortly - I mean, the overall report.

MR. PARSONS: (Inaudible).

MR. JACKMAN: That is what I just said. The report overall is in the stage

of completion and will be submitted rather shortly.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My next question is for the Minister of Health and Community Services.

Minister, in January 2007 outside consultants completed and submitted a

report to government which examined and provided recommendations on issues

related to workplace issues for pathologists. I understand that report has been

in your hands for 435 days. I also understand that it is in the hands of the

commission as an exhibit but it has not been released publicly. When can we

expect to see that report?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: I can table it in the House tomorrow, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you.

My next question is again for the Minister of Health and Community Services.

Minister, in your testimony at the Cameron Inquiry you mentioned that upon

taking office you were not able to get around to reading your notes for four

months in, and one of the reasons you gave is that you were busy reviewing a

report of an organizational review of Child, Youth and Family Services. This

report has never been released publicly. I am wondering when we might expect to

see this report released.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: We can release that one, as well, tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My final question is for the Premier.

Premier, I have just asked five different ministers of your government about

reports that are sitting in their offices, ranging up as much as fifteen months,

and have not been released.

You yourself, Premier, said on March 3 that you would have government

ministers search and find out whatever was sitting around in terms of reports;

because there was a commitment

made, first of all back in 2003, in terms of openness and accountability,

that reports would be released within thirty days. It did not say that they

would be called drafts. It did not say that they would have to be actioned, or

action plans done on them, but that the reports would be released within thirty

days. Right here today we see six examples of reports that have not been

released; and, again, it has been forty-five days since you made that statement

that they would be released.

Can you tell us what you are going to do? You make a commitment that you were

going to do it in 2003, you made a commitment on March 3, and yet we have six

examples in front of us where your ministers have not followed through.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: That is just simply not correct, Mr. Speaker.

The hon. member opposite never ceases to amaze me. The Minister of Finance

got up today and did a Ministerial Statement basically indicating that we had

been accredited as a Chartered Accountant training office. In that statement the

minister said, "this certification represents a positive step."

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the Premier if he would not read from statements during Question

Period, if he would refer to them, paraphrase them.

The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Finance basically said it

was a positive step forward for the Province's overall human resource

requirements by expanding opportunities available to train professionals and

basically employ students.

You stood up and said that this was absolute nonsense, that it does not

matter, that we should not get graduates to come to the government to work. We

should not train people. We should not cease out-migration. We should not

encourage people to come to work for the government. You had better get your

priorities straight.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Mr. Speaker, earlier this session I asked some questions

about the School for the Deaf, and today I have some further questions on that

topic.

The skills and training for teachers of children who are deaf and hard of

hearing is very different from the training of other students. In the past,

teachers were required to have a degree in deaf education to teach those

students.

I ask the minister: Does she fully understand the impact that her push

towards mainstreaming is having on deaf students in this Province?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, I want to be perfectly clear that we do not push

students towards mainstreaming. Mainstreaming is a goal that everyone has a

right to. Everyone has a right to go to their community school and to receive

the supports that they need.

Mr. Speaker, for many years hard of hearing or deaf students had to be

segregated into another school because they learn differently - they learn from

American Sign Language - but, Mr. Speaker, there have been many advances in

technology. There are cochlear implants that students never had before, there

are FM systems that they never had before, and that enables a student to be able

to participate fully in the mainstream classroom in their community.

Mr. Speaker, there are still a number of students who attend the Newfoundland

School for the Deaf, and we are committed to making sure these students receive

the appropriate education and also have the ability to integrate into the main

school system.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the member to conclude her answer.

MS BURKE: Well, Mr. Speaker, I hope there is a subsequent question,

because I really want to make sure that the people of Newfoundland and Labrador

understand the importance of this.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Mr. Speaker, I am fully aware that the students have the

opportunity, I guess, to go to whatever schools they want to go to, but the

correspondence that we have received from students who attend Gonzaga High

School - one of them was told that they were there and they could not go back to

the School for the Deaf, and they left this Province and went to a hearing

school in Ontario.

I ask the minister: Have any recent studies or reports been given to the

department related to the education of deaf and hard of hearing students in this

Province, and, if so, will she release this information to the public?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, there is an ongoing piece of work within the

department that is not finalized, as we look at how we serve best the students

who are deaf or hard of hearing in the Province.

Mr. Speaker, let me be perfectly clear. The students who are attending

Gonzaga leave the School for the Deaf, and go to Gonzaga five days a week for a

half day. At the school, in Gonzaga, we have two ASL teachers who also go to the

school, we have three educational interpreters who also assist at the school,

and for the first time ever in this Province, this year, we have transcription

that happens instantly.

There is one student doing a Physics program, as the teacher speaks it is

transmitted to Calgary and comes right back to the laptop on that student's

desk. So we are providing every support we can to make sure these students have

access to the courses they need, and at the same time, have the ability to

integrate and feel part of the larger community as well.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I want to say to the minister that the questions I am putting forward are

coming from students who attend Gonzaga, and if she would only read their

e-mails that were sent to her, like are sent to us, she would answer properly.

Rather than looking at the education of deaf students from a cost-savings

point of view, I ask the minister: Will she look at how services, such as

vocational education, can be expanded for deaf and hard of hearing students in

this Province?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, let me talk about the cost of educating students

in Newfoundland and Labrador and, particularly, hard of hearing or deaf

students. We have eighteen students enrolled at the School for the Deaf. We

provide mainstreaming services at Gonzaga. For these eighteen students we have

ten teachers, we have a principal, a guidance counsellor and an audiologist.

That school, Mr. Speaker, was built for 200 students. We maintain it right now

for eighteen students. In addition to that, Mr. Speaker, we also continue to

have the residence open, and that residence was built for 120 students and now

has seven in it. We have also increased funding so that the students who attend

the School for the Deaf are able to go home every single weekend, so that they

can spend the weekends with their families and parents in their communities.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Mr. Speaker, students are telling us that government is

deliberately pushing students into mainstreaming so that eventually the numbers

of students will be so low that they will have no option but to close the

school.

I ask the minister: Is this yet another case of this government putting

political damage control ahead of public involvement?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, as I said, we have eighteen students at the School

for the Deaf and we are absolutely committed to their education, but what is

really important here is that every student in this Province has a right to be

educated in their community schools, close to their families, and we have a

commitment to provide the services that they need.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, to say that we deliberately asked children and

students to stay with their parents and in their homes? They have a right to

that, Mr. Speaker, and we have a right to make sure that we can accommodate

students, whether it is through FM students, whether it is through ASL teachers

or whether it is through its FM systems. Mr. Speaker, as the Minister of

Education, I will never force a five year old starting Kindergarten to leave

their parents and leave their home and have to travel and spend from Monday to

Friday in St. John's.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Mr. Speaker, all I can say is, I sure hope not, what she just

made there.

Mr. Speaker, this minister has a record of avoiding meeting people who have

concerns about what is happening to the education system. She refuses to meet

with them and does not respond to their questions.

I ask the minister: Why is she not responding to correspondence which she

received from students at the School for the Deaf that has been sent to her?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, I can assure you that every piece of

correspondence that is directed to me, as the Minister of Education, comes to me

first before anyone assists or drafts any reply to it. Every single piece of

correspondence is logged, it comes to me and I make sure that there is a

response. If it has not been timely, we will make sure that it is. But, Mr.

Speaker, I can assure you that every piece of correspondence - and I regularly

review the correspondence logged to make sure that I have replied to each and

every piece of correspondence, and I will continue to do so.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question is for the Minister of Natural Resources.

Last week the Nunatsiavut Government voted for a three year ban on uranium

mining. The minister, in an April 14 press release, gave a backhanded critique

of their vote by saying that her government is, and I quote: Confident in our

approach to managing uranium development.

Mr. Speaker, could the minister outline for us the rules and standards that

have been protecting people, communities and the environment around uranium

mining for the past twenty years that she is so confident about in her press

release?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Mr. Speaker, last week I acknowledged that the Nunatsiavut

Government's decision to put a moratorium on uranium development in their land

claim areas was entirely within their jurisdiction and a decision that we

respected, and that is so.

In terms of our own regulation, we are very confident, and I am happy to

provide a copy of the regulations to the Leader of the NDP. She is more than

welcome to them. We base our regulations on standards that were developed in

Saskatchewan who has a long history of uranium development and one of the safest

records in the world. So, we are very confident. We recognize, as I said,

Nunatsiavut's right to do what it did but we also have a right to make

decisions on our lands and we have done so, and we stand by that, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Mr. Speaker, statistics from the Ontario Cancer Treatment and

Research Foundation reveal that residents of Elliott Lake, Ontario, experienced

very high incidents of colorectal cancer among females and of lung cancer among

men and women. The study also found higher infant mortality rates and childhood

leukemia than in other areas.

Mr. Speaker, are these the kinds of facts that are giving this government

confidence in its approach to uranium mining?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

As I said, our standards are not based on what is done in Ontario. They are

based on the standards that are practiced in Saskatchewan, which has one of the

best safety records for uranium mining in the world, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Mr. Speaker, I appreciate that Ontario and Saskatchewan are

different. However, the facts about cancer related illnesses apply wherever

uranium mining happens.

In a February 2008 letter to the Ontario government, the Ontario College of

Family Physicians Environmental Health Committee indicates reason to have

concern regarding cancer causing affects of radon gas and other decay products

released into air and water bodies because of exploratory drilling and mining of

uranium.

Mr. Speaker, since the government is so keen on promoting uranium mining.

Will this government strike a committee to examine the potential negative

effects of uranium mining in this Province?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

These matters are extremely important to all provinces, the industry, and

governments who have uranium mining going on in their jurisdiction. We keep a

close eye on the research. We follow the standards, we follow the regulations,

we follow the health information and we set the bar very high in this Province.

Mr. Speaker, I am happy to share whatever information that the Leader of the NDP

wants. I can stand here saying very strongly and very clearly that we are very

satisfied with the regulations that we operate under and we have sufficient

evidence to satisfy us that the standards are very high and safety is a major

concern.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. MICHAEL: Mr. Speaker, yesterday the all-party committee of the Nova

Scotia Legislature upheld the governments ban on uranium mining.

Will this government strike a committee that will at least look at whether it

is possible to mine other minerals without disturbing uranium deposits?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Mr. Speaker, I have to say as minister of this department

and responsible for mining activity in this Province, as I have gone about my

work in the last two years I have received accolades from every part of the

industry, every agency that is involved in this kind of work, to say that this

government has extremely high standards. It is one of the best and safest places

in this country to do this kind of business.

We monitor what is going on in this industry all the time. We strive to have the

highest standards. We will work with the Nunatsiavut government. We share all

our information with them. We will continue to do that, but the health and

safety of the people of this Province is of primary importance to us and we will

do nothing to endanger that.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Premier.

We have heard testimony at the Cameron Inquiry that the Board of Eastern

Health was kept out of the loop as it related to faulty hormone receptor

testing. As a matter of fact, I think Joan Dawe basically stated that the board

was irrelevant with respect to this issue.

I ask the Premier: If the health care boards are supposed to govern the

activities of the Health Care Corporation, why are they not functional and

making decisions on such important matters?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, the Cameron Inquiry is hearing a lot of

evidence from a lot of people. At the end of the day, they will make a ruling

about a number of things, I suspect, and make some comment on a number of

aspects of the testimony that they heard.

Clearly, the testimony that the member opposite is referring to is a board

chair who said that information did not come to the board. As the Minister of

Health and Community Services I will tell this House today, and I will tell the

people of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, that it is inappropriate

for any senior executive management team to withhold pertinent, crucial

information from the health authority, the trustees that actually have recruited

them and put them in place to carry out that function of running the day to day

operations, I say, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order please!

The time allotted for questions and answers has expired.

Presenting Reports by Standing and Select Committees.

Tabling of Documents.

Notices of Motion.

Answers to Questions for which Notice has been Given.

Petitions.

Orders of the Day.

Orders of the Day

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. RIDEOUT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

This is Private Members' Day, I think as everybody is aware. We have to

move to Motion 1, standing in the name of my colleague, the Member for Kilbride.

Private Members' Day

MR. SPEAKER: Order please!

The hon. the Opposition House Leader, on a point of order.

MR. PARSONS: Yes, just for clarification purposes.

I have not had an opportunity to discuss this with the Government House

Leader, but I just noticed - and maybe it is symantical, I am not sure, but in

the first

WHEREAS clause in the motion that is going to be heard today, the

resolution, it talks about: "WHEREAS many graduate students in this

Province" and then the whole thing is based upon graduate students. I am

just assuming that it means all students who graduate, because there is

obviously a distinction between - I am assuming the resolution would not just

apply to graduate students, it would apply to all students who have graduated.

The resolution is not clear. If we are going to be sending this around the

country to other Legislatures, I just want to clarify it.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

There is no point of order. It is a point of clarification.

I call on the Government House Leader for his indulgence.

MR. RIDEOUT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I appreciate the point raised by my friend opposite. The person who moved the

motion and ourselves have noticed that particular wording. What we mean is

post-secondary students and I believe the mover of the motion is going to

indicate that right off the top when he begins his remarks.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Kilbride.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DINN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, that was the first thing that I had intended to do. Actually,

when I was preparing this motion I had a discussion with some people - I won't

say who they were - but I am an old dog to whom it is hard to teach new tricks,

and sometimes we get these preconceived ideas in our heads that we know

everything and when other people explain something to you, you don't listen to

it.

I guess, through my educated life, I always looked at the term graduate as

someone who was finished school. After researching and looking at some of the

information from the Canadian Federation of Students, I guess I admit I was

wrong. My first intention today was to change that word graduate to

post-secondary student.

I will read my motion starting off and then I will go into the few words that

I have to say.

WHEREAS many post-secondary students in this Province, and in the whole

country, are currently experiencing severe financial difficulty because of high

student loan debt; and

WHEREAS many of these post-secondary students had no other alternative but to

accumulate debt in order to fund their education; and

WHEREAS many of these post-secondary students will have their lives put on

hold while they pay off this debt; and

WHEREAS this Provincial Government in its 2007 budget reduced the interest

rate on the provincial portion of student loans to prime, offered needs-based

grants and held the line on tuition;

THEREFORE

BE IT RESOLVED that this House of Assembly calls upon the Federal

Government to also reduce the interest rate on its portion of student loans to

prime; and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that this House of Assembly ask the other provinces

and territories to support this action by passing a similar motion in their

respective legislatures.

Mr. Speaker, I move this motion and it is seconded by my Colleague from the

District of Lewisporte.

Mr. Speaker, I do not know how many of us are aware of it, but in this

Province alone there are over 40,000 post-secondary students who have

accumulated student debt. Now I use the number 40,000 or over 40,000 because I

cannot really get a true handle on it, but some of the information that I did

see used the number 40,000. Now if you want to get an idea about how many that

is, you are talking about the population of Mount Pearl and CBS combined. That

is how many young people in this Province going to school have debt accumulated.

In the country as a whole you are talking hundreds of thousands of young people

who are in debt because of education costs.

Last spring our caucus met with representatives, the provincial

representatives from the Canadian Federation of Students, and this group

expressed severe concern about the rising cost of education and the levels of

debt that students were starting to accumulate because of trying to get their

education. They also expressed concern and desires that this government hold the

line on tuition fees, try to do something to keep tuition fees from going up

last year, this year and in future years.

Mr. Speaker, before I became an MHA I encountered many former students,

people that I knew personally, who had gone to University and had accumulated

high student debts. I remember running across young teachers especially, some

telling me that they owed $50,000 after getting their education. Some of them

were in the $25,000 range and some of these owed well above the average of

$27,000 which is basically what the MUN student loan average debt is.

Last spring I was in my office one day and I received a call from a young

lady from my district. This young lady wanted to come in and speak to me about

the financial mess she was in. Now this young lady is probably one of the

extreme cases that you get when you are talking about student debt. She came to

see me the next day, we sat down and had a chat and she told me the story that

she wanted to reveal. She wanted, after she got out of high school, to go get an

environmental science degree. Mr. Speaker, in order to get this environmental

science degree she had to attend the Corner Brook campus. She was from the St.

John's area. She had absolutely no help from anybody else, so she proceeded to

do a four-year course in Corner Brook. All her expenses had to be paid by

student loans.

This young girl got her degree, came back to St. John's, and could not get

a good job with her degree. She decided then to go do a water treatment course

at one of our local colleges, and this she did. Again, she used student loans to

pay for this college course. She came out of that college and got a very good

job. Actually, the job that she got pays her today over $40,000. Yet this young

girl, after five years of education, after accumulating a debt of over $60,000,

in spite of the fact that she is making over $40,000 a year has not got a cent.

She is basically broke after she gets paid. She has to pay over $600 a month for

student loans. She has to have a car in order to get back and forth to work, so

she has to pay a car lease. She is not living with her parents. She has her own

apartment and she has to pay for that. She has all the other costs of living,

heat and light and gasoline expenses. She has insurance expenses and telephone

costs. All-in-all, when it is all said and done, this girl has absolutely very

little other disposable income.

The saddest part of her story is that she applied for interest relief and

could not qualify because she makes too much money. Another sad part of her

story is that this young girl regrets ever having gone to university and

accumulating $60,000 in debt. She wishes she had done, like some of her friends

had done, that she had gone to work when she got out of high school, spent two

years working and then went to school and got sponsored by an EI program or

something else. She feels she would have been in the workforce earlier and out

making money, rather than having the debt that she has today.

Today she owes, like I said, $60,000. She has fifteen years ahead of her to

pay off this debt. When she is finished, she will pay off the principle of the

loan, plus $72,000 in interest. This was last year. She told me in May before we

made any changes ourselves. After I spoke to this young lady, I wrote our

minister in Ottawa. I relayed her story to him and I asked if he could get his

government to try to do the same kind of thing that we had done here in the

Province. He wrote her back, he wrote me back and I had expected in the federal

budget in March that they would bring down some kind of interest relief program

for students. It did not happen. I think they brought in some grant program or

something like that but they did not bring in anything else.

Now, I am sure all the MHAs in this House could relate stories similar to

what I am saying. You have all heard stories of people who have high student

loan debt.

High student debt is having a great impact on individuals and society as a

whole. According to the Canadian Federation of Students union information -

these people have done a lot of studies on this. They have made briefs to

different levels of government, they have spoken to all kinds of politicians and

they have come up with many conclusions, one of which is that high student debt

causes over 25 per cent of students to quite post-secondary school after they

register. They go to a school, they do a year or they do two years and then they

quit. High student debt causes 27 per cent of registered students to interrupt

their studies. Some of them sign up for a university course, do a year or two

years and then they have to come out and go to work so they can get some money

to continue their education.

High student debt also negatively influences the debt rating of former

students. Somebody who graduates from school, comes out with a high student

debt, they have difficulty sometimes financing any investments they might want

to make. Some of them might want to buy a new car. For some of them, I guess,

having a new house would be a pipe dream at best. High student debt makes it

difficult for some to even get the basic needs of life. As a matter of fact,

according to the Canadian Federation of Students, a lot of these people live at

home, have to stay at home because they cannot afford to go out and get their

own apartments or their own homes.

High student debt causes stress and regret. It has an impact on the number of

high school students who want to go on and do post-secondary education. Some, I

guess, who are given a bit of advice, find out that we may not do this at all,

we can go somewhere else and go to work. I guess something that we are all aware

of, is that high student debt causes post-secondary students to leave this

Province to find high paying jobs so they can meet their debt load and also

live.

There are experts in this field. Many experts say that there are three things

that governments can do to tackle the problem with rising education costs and

high student debt accumulation. One of them is to provide a better grant system.

A second thing to do is to hold the line on tuition fees; keep tuition fees

frozen. Keep them at a certain level that they are at now, and even lower them

if you could. A third thing is to provide better repayment plans, especially

ones that have lower interest rates.

I, myself, feel that student loans should not be treated the same way as

mortgages. When you read and hear some of the stories that students have about

their student debt repayment plans, you realize that they are being treated the

very same way as somebody who has probably a mortgage. I think that is not a

good way to treat young people starting out in life.

I mentioned the three things that experts say we can do. In the 2007

provincial Budget our government did all three of these things. The Canadian

Federation of Students, especially our local group, were very pleased with the

actions that we took. As a matter of fact, I have been talking to some of these

people and they were pleased that, after making representation to this

provincial government, they were able to get some of the things that they

wanted.

I now call upon the federal government to also reduce the interest rates on

their 60 per cent share of student loans and bring it down to prime, as we have

done. This will allow post-secondary students to pay off their debts faster and

with less interest. Over the life of a loan, students will be able to save on

the interest costs and pay their loans off a lot quicker.

Mr. Speaker, I will give you an example of what I am talking about. The

average Memorial University student, or the average Memorial University

graduate, debt is $27,000. If both levels of government had a prime rate of

interest, the post-secondary student would save $3,900 in interest over the life

of that loan, and pay it off fourteen months sooner. If you apply this scenario

to the young lady I referred to in my district who has a loan which is probably

two-and-a-half times that amount, that would mean that she, over the life of her

loan, would save about $10,000 or more in interest and she would also pay off

her loan probably nearly three years faster.

The Canadian Federation of Students is not looking - from my reading from

them - for free education, even though they would love to have it. Everybody

would love to have free education. I think these young people understand the

reality that we are living in. This Province is now turning the corner, we are

becoming better off financially, but I do not think these people think that we

can be everything for everybody. They do not expect, either, that we will write

off all the loans that are on the books. I do not think anyone thinks that is

possible - that would cost a lot of money but I think they would love for

somebody to go and reduce the interest rates, give them better repayment

arrangements.

Mr. Speaker, I will ask all hon. Members of this House of Assembly to take

the politics out of this issue. We are dealing with a very, very serious issue

that affects a lot of young people in our country. Take the politics out of the

issue and join the Canadian Federation of Students in their campaign to keep the

cost of education down and help students with their debt load.

I would advise everybody, or encourage you, to write your MPs, write the

other MHAs in the other provinces and territories, and ask them to help us apply

pressure on the federal government. Maybe all of us working together might be

able to make this an election issue in the federal election that is upcoming

pretty soon. I think it is probably an issue that is as important as any that

you could have.

I thank anybody who might want to support this motion. I think all of us

would.

Mr. Speaker, I thank you and I will close debate when the time comes.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Before the Chair recognizes the hon. the Member for the

District of Port de Grave, the Chair needs some direction here and some guidance

from the hon. member who has brought forward the written text of the motion.

The hon. member stood and agreed to make some changes, and if the Chair

understands them right he will repeat them because it can only be done in one of

two ways. It can be done by bringing forward an amendment because the text is

written, the motion is what it is, or it can be done by leave of the House.

The Chair would like to repeat the WHEREASes and see if that is exactly where

the hon. member had intended.

WHEREAS many post-secondary students in this Province and let's move

down to the other

WHEREAS:

WHEREAS many of these post-secondary students - and the third

WHEREAS would

be:

WHEREAS many of these post-secondary students.

Would that be what the hon. member had intended?

I call on the hon. Member for Kilbride.

MR. DINN: Mr. Speaker, that is exactly what I intended, and I ask the

House to give me leave to change that.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Does the hon. member have leave to change the text in the editorial of his

amendment?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Yes.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member is granted leave.

The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I just want to say a few words with regard to the private member's motion

put forward by the Member for Kilbride.

I have to say, when I look at the first

WHEREAS, that students are currently

experiencing severe financial difficulty because of high student loan debt, I am

sure each and every one of us could stand here today and relate incidents in our

own districts where many of our students find themselves having a high student

loan debt. I know many times I hear from constituents who find themselves in

that position, and some of them, unfortunately, after they graduate, are unable

to find employment in the appropriate time frame and many of them are placed

with a collection agency. I guess I could stay here all day and tell various

stories about individuals who were placed in that position.

I remember, back a few years ago, one individual who found themselves in that

position and it almost came to the point where the individual, who was living

with his mother, the collection agency was even trying to put foreclosure on the

house so they could pay off the debt of the individual.

The second

WHEREAS, they have no alternative but to accumulate debt in order

to fund their education. Many of our young people in the Province,

unfortunately, are not in a financial position where they can go and take

whatever trade they want. They find themselves in a difficult position where

their parents are unable to assist them, and they have no other alternative but

to get student loans.

I have to comment on the part of the provincial government, in its 2007

Budget - I note, Mr. Speaker, some $14.4 million was put in to bring the rate

down to 2.5 per cent, to prime. That means a lot to many of our students in this

Province.

I notice from some correspondence I saw that, for instance, it drops a

current amount from $3,514 down to $2,193, and it demonstrates a tremendous

involvement of our young people to know that they are in the position where they

can see savings, but we have to look further than that.

I notice through the Auditor General's report, and I just want to touch on,

the Debt Reduction Grant program. Unfortunately, there were many students who

availed of the debt reduction but many of them fell by the wayside because they

were not aware of how they had to apply, they were not aware that they could

apply, but through the jigs and reels of it, I have to say, 2,644 of them did

receive a debt reduction; however, there were 389 applications that were not

assessed. Hopefully, at the end of the day - no doubt, that has probably already

been dealt with and we take it from there.

The other thing is, many of the individuals go and take various trades and

find, when they graduate, that they are unable to find work, not only here in

our Province, but some of them are unable to find it in other jurisdictions.

Many of them do go away and find good jobs, but some of them end up in lower

paying jobs and they find it very difficult to pay back the loans that they so

honestly took on and hoped that they would be able to do.

I noticed also through the Auditor General's report that the student loan

repayment performance I know the minister mentioned the other day that a lot

of this has been dealt with; however, there are cases where people are taking

trades and so on and are unable to find work in their chosen field, and they end

up with a tremendous workload, Mr. Speaker.

I know the hon. Member for Kilbride mentioned that the main issue here is to

help keep the interest down so that students will not be burdened as much as

they are.

I wish to put forward an amendment to the resolution, Mr. Speaker, moved by

myself, the Member for Port de Grave, and seconded by the Member for

Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair, that the resolution be amended by deleting the

fifth paragraph and substituting the following:

THEREFORE

BE IT RESOLVED that this House of Assembly calls upon the federal

and provincial governments to eliminate the interest charged on student loans

that are in good standing.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair has not had a chance to see the amendment as put forward by the

hon. member. I understand that the Table Officers have it.

The House will take a brief recess while it looks at the amendment as put

forward by the hon. Member for the District of Port de Grave.

This House is now in recess.

Recess

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair has had an opportunity to review the amendment as put forward by

the hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.

The amendment reads: That the resolution be amended by deleting the fifth

paragraph and substituting the following: Therefore

be it resolved that this

House of Assembly calls upon the federal and provincial governments to eliminate

the interest charged on student loans that are in good standing.

The Chair deems this amendment to be in order.

The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, it is certainly my pleasure to be able to speak

today regarding the issues facing post-secondary students because, as a Province

and as a government, we want to make sure that post-secondary education is

accessible in Newfoundland and Labrador. By being accessible, we mean being

affordable so that students who come up through our high school system, or

people who have finished the high school system and want to go back to school

are able to access the educational system, the public system we have here in

Newfoundland and Labrador. Mr. Speaker, we have certainly been committed to

these issues as a government in the last four years, and we will continue to do

so.

One of the aspects here in Newfoundland and Labrador that makes it an

opportunity to work and work together is the leadership that we see from our

student bodies in this Province, from our post-secondary institutions. We have

the Canadian Federation of Students and we have the MUN Students' Union, we

have the College of the North Atlantic Students' Union, we have the Graduate

Students' Union, we have the Marine Institute Students' Union, and we

certainly have forged a very positive relationship. Any time there has been a

request for a meeting with the student leadership, we have certainly

accommodated that meeting. It is a very useful meeting where we are able to

share information, but we certainly get a very grounded response from the

students. We know exactly where they stand on issues and what they would like to

see achieved in this Province.

Mr. Speaker, a testament to the leadership from this Province and the

positive working relationship that we have with our student unions certainly was

illustrated last year when the Premier of Newfoundland and Labrador was asked to

be the guest speaker at the Canadian Federation of Students annual general

meeting in Ottawa. He received a number of rousing standing ovations during his

talk to the students. That is very much indicative of being asked to be the

guest speaker, indicative of the relationship and the strides that we have made

in this Province, and certainly of the leadership being shown by our Premier.

There certainly have been challenges and there will continue to be challenges

but, Mr. Speaker, we have been committed to work with post-secondary

institutions and our students to try to bring about some resolution to the

challenges that we face.

Since this government took office in the fall of 2003, we have increased

funding to our post-secondary institutions by $121 million. Mr. Speaker, that is

a significant increase in funding that flows to our institutions. When we have

increased funding to our institutions, one thing that we are able to accomplish

is that we have doubled the capacity at the College of the North Atlantic in the

skilled trades. Mr. Speaker, we often speak about how important it is and the

labour shortage we are facing in this Province, and the need that we will have

as a Province as we move into our mega projects for the skilled trades. We have

been able to double the capacity in this Province, and I think that is extremely

important.

Some other comments I want to make on the whole skilled trades and the

apprenticeship is we see it as an issue. We have been addressing it from a

number of fronts, whether increasing apprenticeship opportunities within the

government boards and agencies, or certainly the partnership that we have with

the IBEW to make sure that we increase the number of females into the field of

electronics and electricians and make sure they have opportunities to be

apprentices. Since we have looked at our numbers, we have seen an 18 per cent

increase in the number of apprentices in this Province and we have seen a 14 per

cent increase in the number of people who are receiving their certificates as

apprentices. So, we have certainly been seeing some increases.

Since 2004, we have also seen a 35 per cent increase in females who are

registered in the apprenticeship programs. We have been putting quite an

emphasis on apprenticeship and females. When you think that we have had an

increase of 35 per cent, that is really significant. When you join that to what

we are doing with the skilled trades in our high school program, it is certainly

something that we are proud of. But, in saying that, I will acknowledge there is

a lot of work to be done in that area and we will continue to address that area.

As a government, in our last mandate, and again for this four-year mandate,

we have frozen tuition in Newfoundland and Labrador. I think by doing that as a

Province we have become leaders across the country as to being able to

acknowledge what is important.

Mr. Speaker, I will acknowledge that we hear requests for no tuition and free

tuition. I think that is something that would be great to do in this Province,

but we are not in a position to do that. We are not going to go out and make

foolhardy promises that we cannot keep or that are not sustainable but what we

did commit to was a tuition freeze for the last four years and into the next

four years, and I just want to speak to what that means here in Newfoundland and

Labrador.

In Newfoundland and Labrador our students pay $2,633 for tuition. What they

pay in Prince Edward Island is $4,440; in Nova Scotia, $5,878; New Brunswick

$5,733. Mr. Speaker, I can go right across Canada but the pattern you will see

is that Newfoundland and Labrador is significantly lower than the other

provinces; with the exception of Quebec, where it is $2,025, but for Quebec

residents only. So our students would not be able to benefit from the program in

Quebec.

So, we have made that commitment, and, Mr. Speaker, as we move through this

particular mandate and we come to the school year of 2011-2012 we will have

invested in this tuition freeze $56 million.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, that is a direct investment into the pockets of

our post-secondary students because that is money the government is subsidizing

back to our post-secondary institutions that will not be coming from our

students.

Mr. Speaker, the other thing that is significant, I think when we look at the

student debt, is the fact that since 1999 the number of students in our

post-secondary system relying on student loans has decreased by 50 per cent. In

the school year 1999-2000, we had 18,166 students receiving student loans. Last

year, Mr. Speaker, we had 8,933 students. So, we can look at this and we can

say: Well, you know, it is because of declining population, declining student

enrolment and therefore declining numbers. But our numbers of enrolment do not

reflect the 50 per cent reduction that we are seeing in the number of students

relying on student loans.

Mr. Speaker, last year Memorial had a decrease of enrolment by 1.5 per cent,

which certainly does not reflect the 50 per cent decrease in student loans. At

that time, there were still 17,849 students at Memorial University. What is also

significant is that the enrolment at the College of the North Atlantic increased

by 3.8 per cent, and last year the College had 6,674 students. So, I would think

there has been some emphasis on the skilled trades. We have doubled the capacity

in the skilled trades so therefore we are seeing increased enrolment at the

College of the North Atlantic. Although there was some decrease at Memorial

University, certainly 1.5 per cent would not reflect the 50 per cent less

students relying on student loans.

I want to speak a little bit about the debt that students incur. I have to

speak in averages because, of course, every student has a unique situation and

there are going to be variances no matter what number we use.

In 2006-2007, Mr. Speaker, the average debt for somebody graduating from a

five-year program at Memorial University was $27,114. I asked to have that

number broken down between what our rural students would pay and what our urban

students would, or how much debt would be incurred. That came down that a rural

student's debt load on average would be $30,271 compared to an urban student

at $27,114. That was the average student loan for rural versus urban.

Then, Mr. Speaker, I wanted to look at, with our initiatives of the upfront

needs-based grant and the interest relief that we have applied, what does this

actually mean to the students who are receiving the student loans. What is means

is the rural student at $30,217 would actually have to borrow less because the

grant would be provided which would be $4,843. or 40 per cent of their student

loan would be taken off because of our upfront needs-based grant. For a student

from the St. John's area, for an urban student whose average loan was $27,114,

when we applied the upfront needs-based grant that loan would be reduced by

$2,820 or a 26 per cent reduction. Then, from the $30,271 that goes down to

$25,428, and the urban student loan from $27,114 down to $24,294. When we add

the interest relief onto that there is an additional $1,561 coming off that

student loan.

Mr. Speaker, we have certainly brought in initiatives that I feel have

significantly reduced the amount of student debt in a very meaningful way. We

met with the student leadership and we discussed ways that we could address the

student debt issue, and the students were very firm in what they wanted. We had

different proposals on the table that we wanted to talk about and we did. I

certainly want to commend the students last March, not this March past but

March, 2007 when we met and discussed this issue. They were very concerned and

very adamant that they felt upfront needs-based grants was the way that they

wanted to address student debt.

There were grants available that were eliminated, I think, probably in the

mid-1990s, so the students form the mid-1990s up until last year probably

carried the highest student debt load that they would ever have. With our

upfront needs-based grants we have certainly been able to address that. In

addition to that, we also have maintained the debt reduction program and have

decreased interest rates. So, we have certainly taken a number of initiatives to

make sure we are addressing the issues facing the students.

Mr. Speaker, the amendment here today calls on government to eliminate the

interest on loans in good standing and to ask all provinces and the federal

government to do that.

One thing that we have certainly tried to do as we work with the

post-secondary students is, we have tried to be realistic. We have not offered

and talked about initiatives that we will never be able to cover or that are

unrealistic.

Mr. Speaker, at this point in time I think it is fair to say, if we can ask

every other province and the federal government to put their interest rates to

prime, I think that would be a significant step in the right direction that I

think would be supported by the student membership.

Right now, when we look at the federal rate on student loans, the floating

rate is prime plus 2.5 per cent for students who do not lock in. Right now with

prime being 5.25 per cent that is actually 7.75 per cent. For the students who

do lock in, it is prime plus 5 per cent and that would now be on their federal

portion, 10.25 per cent, when the portion that they are paying back to

Newfoundland and Labrador is at prime.

I think it is realistic for us to continue to work with the post-secondary

students to maintain our freeze on tuition which we are committed to, to work

with our post-secondary institutions to make sure we have strategic investments

that address the concerns in our post-secondary institutions, and to continue to

work to make sure we have the appropriate number of skilled trades seats in this

Province. We need to continue to make sure that we try to attract women into

courses that are considered nontraditional for females so that they can

participate fully in our growing economy. Mr. Speaker, I think it is very

important right now that we ask the federal government and provincial

governments to follow suit to what is happening here in Newfoundland and

Labrador.

Because of our incentives to date, we have seen an increase in enrollment in

Memorial. Although I said there is 1.5 per cent decrease, we have seen an

increase based on the number of graduates coming out of Grade XII versus the

number of people entering our university system. That is based on the fact that

I think we have what I consider the lowest tuition in Canada outside Quebec,

which is for Quebec residents only. Because of that, we are attracting students

from other provinces and in particular from Nova Scotia.

I was listening to the media the other day and they were highlighting the

number of students from Nova Scotia and the fact that they have a Nova Scotia

club at Memorial University. I think that speaks loud and clear, that our

initiatives are not just being recognized and acknowledged here in this Province

but certainly through the other provinces as well.

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased that the motion we have before us certainly

recognizes the work that this Province does and challenges the other provinces

and the federal government to come forward and address these issues. As we look

at that, certainly my concern is with the federal government to make sure that

if we can lobby them and approach them and ask them to do what we have done with

the student loans, if we have seen reductions based on bringing interest back to

prime, when you look at the fact that the federal government provides 60 per

cent of the student loan there is certainly more savings than that to our

students.

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to be here today to speak to these issues and

to be very supportive of these initiatives as we work towards making

post-secondary education realistic in this Province.

Mr. Speaker, when we deal with students and issues of post-secondary

education and how we can support students, there are many ways that can be done

and it is not just necessarily through addressing student debt, it is also being

able to provide opportunity.

Today, the hon. Minister of Finance spoke and he talked about how the

Government of Newfoundland and Labrador was the first government in Canada that

is now recognized to be able to train chartered accountants in this country.

Because we have done that, we have opened a door of opportunity that young

professionals who want to train as chartered accountants have more opportunity

in this Province and they are able to stay right here in Newfoundland and

Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: What really surprised me, Mr. Speaker, was when the Opposition

House Leader spoke and responded to this today, that he thought it was

foolishness and that he thought there was more important business of government.

I can tell you, Mr. Speaker, to the young people of this Province, providing

opportunity that they can stay home and they can certainly practise their

profession and train in this Province is extremely important, and in no way do I

dismiss the interest and the support that we can provide to expand training in

Newfoundland and Labrador. I think that to suggest otherwise is a slap in the

face of the students of this Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Any time that we can expand training or opportunities or

address the needs to make sure that we provide the opportunities that our

students need right here in Newfoundland and Labrador and our young

professionals, I am very supportive of that process.

Mr. Speaker, with that, I would just like to conclude that I certainly feel

that we have made tremendous strides in addressing the needs of young people and

post-secondary students in this Province. I would really like to see the other

provinces and the federal government follow suit.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER (T. Osborne): The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I do not know why I am having problems with my speech today, but I seem to be

tripping over my tongue about three or four times, so let's see if I can get

that to stop.

I am very happy to stand here this afternoon and have the opportunity to

speak to this resolution and to the amendment.

I think it is very important that we stand together as the three parties in

this House in showing the students, the post-secondary students in our Province,

our young people, how much we care about them and how much we care about their

staying in this Province. I think that is what this is all about, it is all

about our students becoming educated, having an education that they can afford

and being able to stay in this Province and then work based on the degrees or

the diplomas that they have received. It is so important that we stand here

today in solidarity to show them that we really do care about them and we care

about their future and we care about our own future, because they are that

future.

There are some points I would like to make. Obviously, the points that have

already been made by my two colleagues I very much agree with, but there are

some other things I would like to talk about. I would like to talk about why it

is so necessary that we do what we are doing here this afternoon in terms of who

are the young people we are doing it for. For some of my statistics I am turning

to the document of the Canadian Federation of Students that they prepared for

their submission to the Department of Finance this year, so it is the stats that

they have. We all know how excellent they are with regard to the statistics that

they use and everything that they have is top quality. I am very happy to be

able to use their resource because I consider what they presented to the

minister to be a resource for all of us.

What is important in this report that strikes me, one of the issues that

strikes me, is that the young people who have the highest debt and the young

people who most are in debt are the children of lower income families. One of

the statistics that I want to read is that 52 per cent of full-time

post-secondary students aged eighteen to twenty-four whose parents earn less

than $40,000 received a loan from CSLP in 2000. That is a tremendous number of

those students. That means that the students of lower income parents are the

students who need the loans, and then those low income students themselves are

saddled with a debt. When we look at a comparison, only 14 per cent of students

whose parents earned more than $80,000 received a public loan. Now, that really

tells us something. In addition, more women students received CSLP loans than

did their male counterparts, 34 per cent versus 29 per cent.

I spell this out because this is why we should be doing what we are doing

here this afternoon. What we are interested in are the students who do not have

the resources. That is why they are ending up with the heavy debts that they are

ending up with, and they do not have resources because, even from the first step

that they take going on in their education, their parents do not have adequate

resources. So, we have to do everything in our power to assure that the young

people who are the ones who are most disadvantaged can have a full education

like everybody else, and they can do it without building on their shoulders this

heavy debt that has been talked about here this afternoon.

There is one more statistic around this that I would like to quote, and then

go on from there. When we talk about low-income families and when we talk

low income we are talking way below $40,000 only 3 per cent of students from

low-income families living beyond commuting distance participated in university.

That fits. They do not have the resources to leave home, to go to where

university is. I would imagine that the percentage would be much less when it

comes to going to college, because we have college campuses more accessible, but

the university campuses are only in two places, so many more students would have

to commute to university than would have to commute to college.

So, why are we here today? We are here to make life better for these students

we are talking about. I think our goal should be for all students: no debt; that

we should be trying to work to a point where we have free education in our

Province. This is not an anomaly in the world. Many places have free education,

and I think this should be our ultimate goal. What we should be looking at here

this afternoon is: What is our final goal down the road?

I even see the amendment that has been brought forward as a goal-oriented

amendment. Nothing can be done overnight we all know that but if we

could agree that this is the reason that we are here this afternoon, to have no

debt on the shoulders of young people when they graduate, if we could do that,

then we would really be doing something for them.

Now, we know that with those who already have debts, and I will talk about

them first, it would be difficult to do total forgiveness but it may not be,

and that is what we would have to look at. I think that there are cases where

there should be total forgiveness, and I think all of those that needs to

happen. We need to look at students who should have total forgiveness of debt.

In the meantime, we do have the problem of interest on debts that exist. I just

think it is absolutely wrong that students should have to pay interest on debts.

It is bad enough that they have the debt, but why should we - and I will say we

because it is the general coffers - why should we benefit from them by charging

them an interest rate? I think it is wrong. I think we should be working towards

- as long as we have loans, we should be working towards no debt.

Yes, the government did come down to prime, and that was excellent, but let's

move now. If we are going to show leadership in the country, let's stay ahead

of the rest. Let's put out to them what we are doing, and let us stay ahead

and then maybe they will catch up with us. So, let's not just say we have gone

to prime and that we just want to get them to do a similar thing. We are not

even saying go to prime, we are saying

BE IT RESOLVED that this House of

Assembly calls upon the federal government to also reduce the interest rate on

its portion of student loans oh, it does, it says to prime.

Okay, we have done that already. So, when we get them to do it then we should

be ready to go less than that. We should be ready to stay in the driver's seat

and work us towards a point where there is no interest rate for those who have

loans. Then, along with that, of course, we need to be working towards the point

where there do not have to be loans at all, because I think the call for

needs-based grants across the board is where we should be going, and that we

should not have students who carry any debt with regard to their education.

I am just thinking for a minute, Mr. Speaker. I do not think that we are

doing anything that people do not want in this Province, by the way, when we do

this. There was a Decima poll that was carried out on behalf of the CFS, and

some of the results of that poll are very interesting. For example, 58 per cent

of the people surveyed strongly agreed that I have my two papers mixed up -

strongly agreed that we should ultimately have free education, that we should

not have tuitions. Another 25 per cent said they somewhat agreed. So we have,

you know, 83 per cent of the people surveyed saying that tuition should be free.

This is extremely important that, in moving towards free education for our

students - and for me that does not mean just free tuition; it means an

education that will not require even any loans - in moving towards that, we are

doing what the people of the Province want. We are doing what the parents of

these young people want. We are doing what these young people want. We are doing

what the guardians of these young people want. We are not doing something

strange. We are not doing something that the people of the Province will say:

Are they crazy in the House of Assembly, thinking that we can have free

education, thinking that we do not have to have debts with regard to

post-secondary education?

No, in actual fact, if we go in this direction - and I would love to think

that we will go in this direction - we are following the lead of what the people

want, and surely that is what we should be doing here.

I agree with the government that it has, in many ways, been listening to the

Canadian Federation of Students, that it has been trying to respond to what the

students are saying. It is interesting, it is doing that, but the students are

still beyond what we are asking. The students are still beyond what we are

giving them. We are taking steps, the government is taking steps, towards what

the students want, but they are still way out there in what they are looking

for, so they are doing what I think we should be doing with the rest of Canada.

They are giving the lead; the government is trying to respond to them and take

steps towards what they want. If we do the same thing with the rest of Canada

and we keeping following the students, maybe we will all get to the same place

together some day where students in this country, not just in this Province but

in this country, have free education, just like students in Ireland have free

education, like students in some Scandinavian countries have free education.

This is what we should be aiming at.

For me, yes, I will vote for the amendment because I believe in the spirit of

that amendment. I will want us to move towards a common goal of no debt, that

our students will be absolutely debt free. I believe we should be moving, as I

said, towards having a complete needs-based grants program for students who need

assistance, and not have any loans. Of course, with regard to our tuition, I am

very glad it is still frozen but I think our goal should be elimination of

tuition.

Mr. Speaker, as I said, I am very pleased that I had the opportunity to stand

this afternoon and speak to this issue, and I look forward to voting for the

amended resolution.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Bank.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am pleased to rise today, as well, to speak in support of my colleague from

Kilbride and his motion on student debt.

There are a number of points that I would like to make. First of all, I would

like to respond partly to the Leader of the NDP, a couple of comments. I think

we would all agree that working towards no debt, Mr. Speaker, is certainly an

ultimate goal. One of the things that we do try and do on this side of the House

though is be realistic, and we have to make decisions that help us live within

the means. While, certainly, everybody would like to be there, we are not in a

position as a government to make promises we cannot keep, and I do not think

anybody wants us to do that.

The other piece I would like to speak to is the comment around leadership and

staying ahead of the pack. I think, Mr. Speaker, for the information of the

House - that the minister has shared many times - we are, right now, offering

the lowest tuition rate in Canada, outside of Quebec; which is for Quebec

residents only. I think that point needs to be made.

I am going to touch on a couple of points, Mr. Speaker, to sort of support

the motion and go in a little different direction than the minister did. Some of

it may overlap, but a couple of points that I think are very important to this

motion with respect to education in the bigger picture in the Province. As I

reflect upon the numerous debates we have had here and the numerous speakers,

certainly this side of the House recognizes the importance of education in the

global sense, both for the social development of the Province and what it does

for the self-confidence of individuals. It helps to build stronger families,

stronger communities, and helps individuals have the confidence that they need

to move forward and harness their potential.

I think we also recognize, Mr. Speaker, the impact that education has on the

economic development and economic potential for the Province. Historically, in

our Province, Mr. Speaker, we have been resource based, where many individuals

have been employed in resource driven economies; the fishery, the forestry. As

everybody, I think, are aware, that has certainly been changing very much in the

last number of years. Certainly, perhaps more than ever, not only is education

critical for our students and our young people, but it is also equally important

that we not lose sight of the many individuals who are displaced and affected by

the changing economy that we have and the many people who are older and outside

of the K-12 system and need to retrain and re-educate themselves.

We often talk about, many times, our youth being the future leaders. There is

no question about that, they are going to be our future fisherpersons and

forestry workers, and doctors, and politicians, and municipal leaders, but

equally so, we have to remember those who are a little older and a little more

experienced, and are having to retrain and re-educate themselves.

Certainly, it is my belief that the government, over the past number of

years, have made some very, very positive decisions, very progressive and very

concrete decisions with respect to the education budget. As the Finance Minister

knows, we spent in excessive of $1 billion on the current year's education

budget.

I want to touch on a couple of things that I think are relevant to the

discussion, Mr. Speaker, because if we are going to talk about education and

talk about student debt, I think it is important that we talk about the big

picture of commitment to education and what this government has done and what we

are continuing to do.

I am going to touch on some K-12 issues for a few moments; none the least of

which is important is the elimination of school fees. As I listened to some

members opposite talk about the poor and the needy, I do not think anybody in

this House has the monopoly on caring and feeling for those individuals. If

there is one move we have made in education that certainly supports people in

those situations, it has been the elimination of school fees and consumable

fees, and the elimination of cost for textbooks at the Grade 10 to 12 levels.

Mr. Speaker, I might add, there is no small price tag on both of those items.

The elimination of school fees was an investment of $6.3 million by this

government, and the creation of free textbooks was at a cost of $12.8 million to

the Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KING: I am going to touch on a couple of other pieces, Mr. Speaker,

that have been important to me in my previous life and important to many, many

communities throughout the Province. One is an investment, perhaps a small

investment, of $100,000 but it is government's support of the community use of

schools and the purchase of liability insurance.

As many members, I am sure, are aware, it has caused increased havoc and

headaches for school boards and for community individuals who have been

volunteering in schools. Up until, perhaps the last year-and-a-half or so with

the heightened focus on accidents and liability, school boards essentially have

had to take a position where requiring insurance - communities, such as those in

my district where groups of five and six students are being led by an adult, had

to purchase liability insurance. This government made the decision to purchase

liability insurance, which now eliminates all of those hassles and allows people

in to use our school facilities.

Two big pieces I want to touch on as well, Mr. Speaker, that I think are very

important and demonstrates this government's commitment to education. One of

which was the review of the ISSP Pathway process; in short, the delivery of

special services to individuals in our Province, in our school system. The

second was the review of the teacher allocation formula and, ultimately, the

adoption of a new model that is based on the programming needs and class size of

schools in this Province. Both of those come with a hefty price tag, Mr.

Speaker, I am sure, and I am sure that the Finance Minister will remind all of

us on Budget Day what the cost is, but it is important to highlight that in both

of those documents they are based solely on the needs of students in our system.

Both documents contain recommendations that this government will implement,

which will mean improved delivery of educational services and improved options

and opportunities for students in this Province in education.

I also want to highlight a number of initiatives that we have invested in on

the curriculum and program side. Specifically, Mr. Speaker, $3.2 million has

been invested in physical education equipment as part our strategy to encourage

more activity in schools and encourage more activity amongst our students. That

has not gone unnoticed I can assure you of that. Likewise, we have put $3.85

million into upgrading of our lab equipment and lab safety throughout the

Province. Of course, one of the more recent announcements by the minister was

$11.3 million for the Excellence in Mathematics strategy. Which will encompass,

essentially, looking at the basic math skills and math concepts, and I think

acknowledges, Mr. Speaker, that our government has been listening to

professionals in the field, we have been listening to parents and we are

listening to the advice of experts who have written their report and advised us

on that.

As well, of much significance in the education system has been our investment

in construction and maintenance. In addition to the investments we have made,

not only in new school construction, Mr. Speaker, and large capital projects, it

is important to note that this government brought back the operating grants for

school boards and schools from fifty-five cents that was reduced by a previous

government back in the 1990s - from fifty-five cents back to ninety-two cents a

square foot, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KING: We have also, Mr. Speaker, in public education we have invested

in libraries to expand the hours of operation in forty-two libraries. We have

invested in distance education throughout the Province. Right now, we are

offering distance education courses at 103 schools, Mr. Speaker, to ensure that

students in our rural schools and our smaller schools have access to the

programs that they need to open whatever doors need to be opened at the

post-secondary level for them once they finish Grade 12 education.

As well, Mr. Speaker, this government partnered and invested $5 million in a

Broadband Internet initiative to bring Internet access to previously unserviced

schools and areas throughout the Province.

With respect to school safety, Mr. Speaker, it is also important to note that

we have invested, not only in human resources through behavioural support

specialists, but we have invested heavily in a safe and caring schools policy

intended to make sure that our school environments are as safe and protective as

possible for students who are attending school. Mr. Speaker, to offer support at

the local level government has set up a special projects initiative and fund

where local schools are able to apply for projects that are certainly specific

to their particular school. The intent is to assist them in bringing in

initiatives that promote the whole idea of safe and caring schools and make

their schools ultimately safer for them to attend.

The other issue I would like to touch on, Mr. Speaker, is the Cultural

Connections strategy. That is a $10 million strategy that we have invested in as

a government to support our students and to encourage them to take advantage of

educational opportunities. There is an investment there, Mr. Speaker, not only

in human resources but in new curriculum materials and enrichment opportunities

for our students, the purchase of music equipment, the support of arts and music

festivals and a number of programs, two of which I will name, Mr. Speaker, the

Visiting Artist Program where we provide support for artists to visit schools

throughout the Province and of course the School Tutoring Program.

The last one I would like to touch on very quickly is the Skilled Trades

Program, Mr. Speaker, throughout the Province. We have brought in now - as of I

think today sixty-five sites in the Province have been piloted with the new high

school skilled trades curriculum and the average is between 75,000 and 80,000

per site that we have invested in equipment and renovations to ensure students

in those sites have access to quality skilled trades programs. Certainly, Mr.

Speaker, I think that is an important initiative and demonstrates our support

for education in the Province.

A few concluding comments that are a little broader, Mr. Speaker: I think all

of us on this side of the House certainly recognize the importance of education.

As I said at the outset, we certainly encourage all of our citizens, students

who are in K to 12 and those who are outside of the school system currently but

entertaining a career change or needing to move in a different direction in

their life, we certainly support education and we encourage all of our citizens

to pursue the highest level of education they can possibly attain.

The future in the Province, Mr. Speaker: We have talked many times about the

numerous projects that are in the offing, things like Hebron Ben Nevis, the

possibility of a second oil refinery in the Burin Peninsula region, the district

I represent, and the potential for the JSS project for the Marystown Shipyard.

All of those certainly highlight tremendous potential for the Province. They

also, Mr. Speaker, highlight the tremendous need for skilled trades workers to

fill the jobs that will come with that.

Not only that, though, Mr. Speaker, not only do we need qualified individuals

who are trained and ready to go on these projects but we have other occupations

in the Province, specialists, medical doctors, nurses, nurse practitioners,

specialized teachers in education and so on, where there is certainly a need for

individuals to step up, get the qualifications and fill the positions.

With that in mind, Mr. Speaker, there is no doubt about it that the issue of

student debt is of great significance, one that, in some instances, may in fact

deter individuals from pursuing their dreams and furthering their education at

the post-secondary level. I think all of us recognize, as members of the

government, that it is important for us to do all that we possibly can to

support these individuals who are trying to get ahead and to make education as

affordable as possible. Certainly, we cannot afford to fail our students and we

have to do all we can to open doors for them.

Having spent many years in university myself, both at the post-graduate level

and undergraduate level, I can certainly relate to the issues that student debt

brings with attending university education. I think it is also fair, Mr.

Speaker, that if we do not strive to get the highest level of education that we

possibly can success is going to be virtually impossible for all of us, both

individuals in the Province and families and the Province as a whole.

I might add, Mr. Speaker, I was away for two days this week, on behalf of our

minister, attending a literacy conference in New Brunswick. The whole focus of

the conference was about the need for us to have a more literate society. One of

the things that we saw at this conference was that there was unanimity amongst

all ministers of education across the country. In this particular site, it was

the gathering of the Atlantic Provinces. Certainly, the belief is we have to

strive to make sure all of our citizens are better educated and better able to

participate with their families and to be a positive contributor to the

development of not only Atlantic Canada, but of our particular Province. That

view certainly is shared.

Mr. Speaker, with that in mind, I think it is important, as a government,

that we remove as many impediments as we possibly can to student debt so that

students do not see pursuing post-secondary education and higher education with

a view that the debt that they will incur becomes an impediment to doing what

they would like to do with their life. With that in mind, I am very pleased to

speak in support of this motion.

As I have said, in a number of ways throughout my comments, no longer is

education a nice thing to have, it is something that we have to strive for. If

individuals are going to succeed, if families are going to succeed and if our

Province is going to succeed, we all have to work together and strive to become

as educated as we possibly can and be prepared for the future.

With that in mind, I am very pleased to speak in favour of the motion brought

forward by the hon. the Member for Kilbride.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I certainly want to rise and contribute to the debate today with regard to

the motion that has been put forward by the Member for Kilbride. I am sure, Mr.

Speaker, in the member bringing forward this motion he certainly had good

intentions and the intentions of students at heart when he did so. But, Mr.

Speaker, I really have to question in terms of what it means. In my opinion,

when I look at a motion like this it has very little substance in terms of what

the real contribution is going to be to reducing the debt that is incurred by

students in our Province today.

Mr. Speaker, it is very quick to offer the federal government to anti up in

terms of reducing some interest rates but it does not take the provincial

government's commitment anywhere beyond where it is today. I have some

problems with that because I think that at a time when we run surplus budgets in

the Province, and we recognize in the form of motions like this that there is a

serious problem facing students, then the provincial government itself should be

offering up something more substantial as a means of being able to counteract

the amount of debt and indebtedness that these students incur.

Mr. Speaker, I had a good look at the motion that has been introduced in the

House today and while it does, I guess, to a very small extent help reduce some

of the burden to students in terms of interest costs from the federal

governments side of it, again it offers up little or no contributions from the

provincial government on a go forward basis.

Mr. Speaker, I think that is where the member fell short in terms of calling

on the feds to do something but failing to act or offer up further

contributions, or further, I guess, incentives to be able to offset the amount

of indebtedness or debt that students are in.

Mr. Speaker, we proposed an amendment today and I think it is a very fair

amendment, in fact. Mr. Speaker, it is an amendment that says that we call upon

the House of Assembly: THEREFORE

BE IT RESOLVED that the House of Assembly call

upon the federal and provincial governments to eliminate the interest charged on

student loans that are in good standing.

What that means, Mr. Speaker, is that students not pay the 5.2 per cent or

2.5 per cent, I think, which is the prime rate today that is going for interest

rates, but in fact, Mr. Speaker, they pay no interest as long as they are in

good standing, as long as they are not delinquent in their repayment plan to the

Canadian Student Loan Association. That was the reason we proposed the

amendment.

In fact, it was only over the weekend that I had met with a group of students

to talk about some student issues. Actually, on Sunday afternoon a couple of

these students raised this particular issue with me. When I asked them what they

saw as being some of the things that they would like to see done in terms of

being able to curb the amount of debt that students face, one of those things

was to eliminate the interest on student debt. So, Mr. Speaker, I think it is a

commonly discussed initiative that is out there with students in the Province.

Notwithstanding that fact, it was actually in the last election that we put

forward, as part of our platform, a commitment to examine an interest-free loan

system that ensured that students were responsible for repaying principal

payments but not in excess of interest charges. That was a commitment that we

made as a party in the last election. I am somewhat disappointed that the

members opposite are not prepared to adopt that policy, because it is a good

policy and one that would, in fact, cost this Province very little.

When the member made his opening statements today, one of the things he said

was that he did not want this to become political. He asked that people