Manitoba Hansard — 18 May 2021 (Sitting 65B, 42nd Legislature, 3rd Session)

42-3-65b

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Third Session – Forty-Second Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Myrna Driedger Speaker Vol. LXXV No. 65B - 1:30 p.m., Tuesday, May 18, 2021 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Forty-Second Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ADAMS, Danielle Thompson NDP ALTOMARE, Nello Transcona NDP ASAGWARA, Uzoma Union Station NDP BRAR, Diljeet Burrows NDP BUSHIE, Ian Keewatinook NDP CLARKE, Eileen, Hon. Agassiz PC COX, Cathy, Hon. Kildonan-River East PC CULLEN, Cliff, Hon. Spruce Woods PC DRIEDGER, Myrna, Hon. Roblin PC EICHLER, Ralph, Hon. Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne, Hon. Lac du Bonnet PC FIELDING, Scott, Hon. Kirkfield Park PC FONTAINE, Nahanni St. Johns NDP FRIESEN, Cameron, Hon. Morden-Winkler PC GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib.

GOERTZEN, Kelvin, Hon. Steinbach PC GORDON, Audrey, Hon. Southdale PC GUENTER, Josh Borderland PC GUILLEMARD, Sarah, Hon. Fort Richmond PC HELWER, Reg, Hon. Brandon West PC ISLEIFSON, Len Brandon East PC JOHNSON, Derek, Hon. Interlake-Gimli PC JOHNSTON, Scott Assiniboia PC KINEW, Wab Fort Rouge NDP LAGASSÉ, Bob Dawson Trail PC LAGIMODIERE, Alan Selkirk PC LAMONT, Dougald St. Boniface Lib. LAMOUREUX, Cindy Tyndall Park Lib.

LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas-Kameesak NDP LINDSEY, Tom Flin Flon NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Malaya Notre Dame NDP MARTIN, Shannon McPhillips PC MICHALESKI, Brad Dauphin PC MICKLEFIELD, Andrew Rossmere PC MORLEY-LECOMTE, Janice Seine River PC MOSES, Jamie St. Vital NDP NAYLOR, Lisa Wolseley NDP NESBITT, Greg Riding Mountain PC PALLISTER, Brian, Hon. Fort Whyte PC PEDERSEN, Blaine, Hon. Midland PC PIWNIUK, Doyle Turtle Mountain PC REYES, Jon Waverley PC SALA, Adrien St. James NDP SANDHU, Mintu The Maples NDP SCHULER, Ron, Hon.

Springfield-Ritchot PC SMITH, Andrew Lagimodière PC SMITH, Bernadette Point Douglas NDP SMOOK, Dennis La Vérendrye PC SQUIRES, Rochelle, Hon. Riel PC STEFANSON, Heather, Hon. Tuxedo PC TEITSMA, James Radisson PC WASYLIW, Mark Fort Garry NDP WHARTON, Jeff, Hon. Red River North PC WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WISHART, Ian Portage la Prairie PC WOWCHUK, Rick Swan River PC

3219 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Tuesday, May 18, 2021 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Mr. Deputy Speaker (Doyle Piwniuk): Good afternoon, everyone. Please be seated. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS Mr. Deputy Speaker: Introduction of bills. Committee reports. Tabling of r eports. Ministerial statements. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Christian Brunel Hon. Audrey Gordon (Minister of Mental Health, Wellness and Recovery): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Christian Brunel has been a physical education teacher at Collège Béliveau for 13 years.

He d evel- oped a passion for physical education through par - ticipation in school and community sports, both as an athlete and as a coach. Last month, Christian was one of four LRSD physical education teachers honoured with the Physical and Health Educators of Manitoba Innovator Award for their leadership in the LRSD EdTech Mentorship Program. This initiative began in 2019 to incorporate technology into physical education pro- gramming, allowing students to develop a better understanding of their physical activity.

When the pandemic started, he was able to keep his students active from home because of the inno- vative uses of technology that he and the EdTech team had already developed. Christian has also led the outdoor education pro- gram at Collège Béliveau since he began teaching in 2008. In this course, he leads students on a three -day backcountry camping, canoeing and hiking trip to pro- mote understanding of the benefits of reconnecting with nature and appreciation of the natural beauty of our province.

U nder Christian's leadership, this pro - gram has become very popular at Collège Béliveau, with three quarters of the graduating class signing up every year. Christian has adopted the Indigenous Circle of Courage as a holistic model in his teaching, encour - aging students to develop the principles of generosity, independence, mastery and belonging. Christian's daily motivation is simply to get students moving, having fun and respecting one another. Please join me today in congratulating Christian Brunel for his commitment to promoting youth phys- ical activity– Mr.

Deputy Speaker: The honourable minister's time is up. JoAnne Small MLA Uzoma Asagwara (Union Station): Mr. Deputy Speaker–just waiting 'til he shows up. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for Union Station? MLA Asagwara: Sorry, the camera–I just wanted to wait 'til– Mr. Deputy Speaker: Okay, sure. MLA Asagwara: Yes, yes. Mr. Deputy Speaker, today I rise to celebrate my former teammate JoAnne Small, an incredible athlete, Union Statio n educator and recent inductee to the Manitoba Basketball Hall of Fame. Originally from Bedford, Nova Scotia, JoAnne's success in basketball started young.

She played for the junior national basketball team before being recruited to the University of Winnipeg Wesmen in 2000. During her career, JoAnne was named top rookie, four-time Canada West all -star, First Team All - Canadian for three straight years, and Academic All - Canadian in each of her five years.

JoAnne was the second-ever Wesmen to receive the Nan Copp Award for national player of the year in 2005; and that –her final year with the Wesmen, she also led the country in scoring, led the Wesmen to a runner -up finish at the national championships and became fourth place on the Wesmen all -time career scoring list with 3,082 points. Last year, JoAnne was named one of U Sports Top 100 women's basketball players of the century, and today we celebrate her induction to the hall of fame. I had the privilege of playing alongside JoAnne for three seasons, a nd I saw her drive and leadership first-hand.

She's easily one of the most humble players that I know, and true to form, she says she considers herself fortunate to have played with so many great

3220 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 18, 2021 athletes. I say we're fortunate to have played alongside JoAnne, a superstar athlete and superstar person. These days, JoAnne is inspiring future gener - ations of athletes as a guidance counsellor and coach at the University of Winnipeg Collegiate. Her passion has helped others go on to achieve their own notable successes. I hope all members will join me today in con- gratulating JoAnne Small for her impressive career and lasting impact on the basketball community right here in Manitoba. Aurora Farm Ms.

Janice Morley-Lecomte (Seine River): Aurora Farm has been part of the St. Norbert landscape for many years. The farm boasts of a variety of activities and promotes well -being and health throughout the sale of their many environmentally friendly products. Over the last 16 years, owner Louise May Campbell [phonetic] has grown a business from the many locally grown and farmed products on her farm.

For years, people have been able to visit the farm and view the many animals, sample homemade products, browse the gift shop and learn an appreciation for the environment and how Louise May has blended busi - ness with eco-sustainability. Aurora Farm has always run a small-scale garden food box program, featuring all the food products from the farm, such as garden produce, eggs, honey, preserves, dried herbs and goat -milk products. They wanted to expand and make a full -scale online far - mers' market to feature as many Manitoba food pro- ducers as possible.

Louise May reached out to fellow farmers' market friends and started an online market. While being primarily a face- to-face operation, they continue to do as much as possible through their popular programs such as baby goat yoga, summer youth farm camp as well as personalized tours. The success of the garden plots has welcomed many local gardeners. Now in its second year, t here are over 20 gardeners planting a garden. In addition, Louise May has four acres of garden space that has been expanded to intensive food and medicinal herb crops.

When the pandemic began, Louise realized that to continue to offer products to Aurora Farm customers, the business model and an addition of products were necessary. One of their main products is goat -milk soap, which has a creamy, moisturizing and soothing quality which benefits hands suffering from the drying effects of hand sanitizers. Wit h Health Canada's ap - proval, homemade hand sanitizer was sold to cus - tomers and donated to community organizations. I want to acknowledge and applaud Louis May and Aurora Farm on their success. I encourage people to go the Aurora Farm website and check out her products.

Indigenous Consultation on Hydro Projects Mr. Tom Lindsey (Flin Flon): Last week, the Pallister government issued the final licences for Manitoba Hydro's Churchill River Diversion and Lake Winnipeg projects. For decades, the Indigenous peoples living on the shores and traditional territories affected by these programs have seen their livelihoods, land, com - munity and health suffer. The Augmented Flow Program has decreased local fish populations such as whitefish and sturgeon. To make ma tters worse, the remaining fish also contain concerning levels of mercury due to ongoing shore erosion.

Tataskweyak band councillor Robert Spence said that his people share the same fate as the sturgeon, and Les Dysart from O -Pipon-Na-Piwin Cree Nation h as called granting the final licence a death sentence for his people. The Minister of Conservation and Climate (Mrs. Guillemard) claimed her government did mean- ingful consultation; Indigenous communities have said the opposite.

What these communities asked for was not un- reasonable: suspend the Augmented Flow Program, allow higher flows down the lower Churchill River, no more massive flushes, support measures to recover whitefish and sturgeon and– most importantly–mean- ingful say in the operation of the Churchill River Diversion. The Pallister government had an opportunity to advance reconciliation, but they instead did what they always do: they ignored their constitutional obliga - tions, went over the heads of concerned Manitobans and made the wrong decision.

The minister can withdraw the final licence and do the right thing by engaging in meaningful con- sultation, and she should do so today. Thank you. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for River Heights (Mr. Gerrard).

May 18, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3221 The honourable member for River Heights, your mic is on mute. Child-Care During Pandemic Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Okay. Mr. Deputy Speaker, I honour Brenda Still and all those who work in child care and early childhood education in River Heights and in Manitoba. COVID-19 has been an incredible challenge. Indeed, providing services for young children and keeping the virus away from them and from staff has been a challenge far more than most of us can imagine.

You can't put plastic shields around kids; you can't effectively use masks, and yet the service that child care and early childhood educators provide is essential in order that so many other essential workers can work, including those in health care, in grocery stores, in emergency services and in transport ation, and in so–and so many other occupations. It is a chal- lenge like no other. * (13:40) There is also joy in spending time with young children.

At the same time, it is a challenge to be flex- ible under constantly changing rules and often without nearly enough support early on when schools were closed and child-care centres were to remain open. It sent shockwaves through the system. At another point, there were several changes in a single day in what was communicated. Yet, Brenda Still and others working in this area have persevered. And, more than this, Brenda has advocated at a Legislative Assembly committee, written op-eds, and made numerous calls, emails and texts to me, her MLA.

One of these was about the lack of attention in Bill 47 to school-aged children. In this quest, my col- league, the MLA for Tyndall Park, worked with child- care workers and was able to bring forward two critical amendments, which have been accepted by the government and are now part of Bill 47. Thank you, Brenda, for bringing this to our atten- tion. Thanks to all who work in child care and early childhood education in our province. You are helping raise the next generation. You are helping to ensure the future for all of us. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Time for oral questions.

ORAL QUESTIONS Grace Hospital Staffing Concerns Request for Out-of-Province Workers Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): Manitoba is the worst COVID hot spot in North America. That's evidence of a failed ap - proach. And now those who ca re for Manitobans at the bedside –doctors, nurses, health- care profession - als–are speaking out. I'll table the latest letter that we've received. It highlights some very concerning failures of care, and I quote: Missed meds, rushed and skipped assess - ments, delayed hygiene, falls, bedsores are daily occurrences. End quote.

These failures of care are made worse by the fact that we're facing perhaps the most serious health crisis in our province's history. This is an emergency. It is particularly acute at the Grace Hospital. Will the Premier take every step to immediately fix the staffing crisis at the Grace and province-wide? Hon.

Brian Pallister (Premier): When Manitoba had the lowest case numbers, for the last number of weeks consecutively, outside of the Atlantic bubble, the member had nothing to say about the work of our vac- cine team that was positive, nothing to say about the work of our health- care advisers that was positive, nothing at all. Now he calls the system that protected Manitobans more effectively than any other juris - diction from Nova Scotia to the west coast a failed system. I don't agree with that at all. He's talking about case numbers that are unaccountably high, and there are reasons for that.

And, of course, this government's taken every step possible to prepare our province, to educate, to work hard, to get ready for the circum - stances that have arrived. And this is an unprecedented global pandemic, not a time to try to achieve some political advantage at the expense of fairness and objectivity. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Kinew: What I'm talking about is the fact that our ICUs are at a breaking point and front -line staff are crying out. It's patients across the province who are feeling the impacts.

It's their care that is at risk. I'll quote from the letter from these health-care workers again, and I quote: Code blues and seizures in the triage hallway

3222 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 18, 2021 are common because nurses are stretched so thin they are unable to monitor patient conditions close enough to catch when a patient is declining. End quote. This is a crisis made by political decisions. This is a crisis as a result of understaffing caused by health cuts made by this Cabinet. It's bad enough that none of the Cabinet speak out against this damage, but it's worse that other provinces, in a similar situation, asked for help. Ontario had the humility to ask for help.

Will the Premier ask other provinces to send front-line health-care workers to help relieve the stress in our hospitals? Mr. Pallister: You know, we had the worst wait times in Canada under the NDP after four terms in office. Patients were walking out of emergency rooms, with- out being seen, in record numbers. People were being admitted after eight hours at the Grace Hospital and then shipped to another hospital to get care. The health-care system that we inherited from the NDP was in a state of crisis. We took the advice they were given but didn't act on; we acted on it.

We con- tinue to act on the advice of medical experts now. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary ques - tion. Mr. Kinew: Manitobans are waiting for days in the hallway at the Grace right now. What are health-care workers at the Grace saying right now? I'll quote: It is a humanitarian crisis that has been fabricated by a government who has cut funding to our health- care system and does not care about its people. End quote. [interjection] You can heckle me all you want, but those are the words of a nurse in west Winnipeg. [interjection] Mr.

Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: Those are the words from the front lines of our health-care system. We need a government that will recognize that they have made a mistake so that they might have the ability to correct it as we deal with this third wave. Will the Premier act? Will he ask other provinces and the federal government to send front -line health- care workers to help at our ICUs, including at the Grace Hospital? Mr.

Pallister: Our government has worked diligently and co -operatively with the leaders of every other province and the federal government throughout this pandemic and before to address shared concerns about health care, about wait times. We're the only province that's actually making progress on reducing wait times, which is testament to the failure of the previous NDP administration. But if the member would like to embark on an example–a good example of how to correct mistakes, he might rise in his place in his next

preamble and apologize for breaking public health orders in the middle of a health crisis. [interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Order. The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a different question. Systemic Inequality in Health Care Establishment of Triage Protocol Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): It's clear the situation in our ICUs is very serious. We're exceeding the worst numbers we saw during the second wave. That's why we urgently need a triage protocol to help physicians and front-line staff make decisions if our health-care system's capa- city is exceeded.

Now, we first raised this issue in April 2020. I'll table that letter. We revisited the issue again at the height of the second wa ve in November 2020. And again, today we've called for the development of such a protocol. Here we are, it's the third wave, 15 months into the pandemic. Still there is no action on this front and no triage protocol. That's surprising. That's very worris ome. These decisions should not be made at the last minute. Why hasn't the Province developed a triage protocol to help those working in ICUs? Hon.

Brian Pallister (Premier): You know, the ethical framework that was developed by our health - care leaders that has been in place for significant period of time–I believe a year or more–provides the framework necessary for people to make difficult de- cisions in the health-care system, as they do every day. But I would say again to the member, the ethica l framework that guides our physicians should guide us here, as well. And when I took my mask down to speak to Andrew Scheer, who I hadn't seen for a couple of years–[interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order.

May 18, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3223 Mr. Pallister: The member is –the member failed to wear his mask, organized a rally which broke public health orders and has yet –has yet –speaking of an ethical framework–has yet to say that was a mistake. Just say it was a mistake and be done with it. I think Manitobans are forgiving people. But deny it and set a horrible example for the rest of the people, including his own caucus members, and he has noth- ing to say. That's too bad. The ethical framework of our health-care leadership is in place to make difficult decisions.

Here, it isn't being followed by the NDP leader. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Kinew: Now, we've seen throughout the pan- demic that some Manitobans face worse outcomes with COVID because of systemic factor s–seniors, Indigenous people, to name but a few. Now, if our health- care system's capacity is exceeded, then those folks' challenges will be exacerbated. Now, it's not fair to ask health -care workers to weigh these systemic impacts while they try and save lives at the bedside. That's why we need a system - wide response.

That's why we need this triage protocol. 'Addresting' systemic inequality on health care is not something that should be done on the fly. We need action. Action would be to develop such a protocol with Indigenous health leaders, experts in seniors care and representatives from the disabilities community. * (13:50) Will the Premier take action today? Mr. Pallister: The member's a day late and a cup and a half short, Mr. Speaker.

We've taken action on this and many other issues– hundreds of other issues –throughout this pandemic. [interjection] The member may heckle from his seat, as he chooses to do, but it just shows the lack of struc- ture, the recklessness of the member opposite. I c an only say, here's a quote: You can't ask Manitobans to go into another lockdown, leave folks out who are breaking these public health orders and have no consequences for these individuals. End quote.

That's a quote from the NDP Justice critic, House lead er and leader -in-waiting, who said that those things should apply to others but I think also meant that they should apply to the NDP leader as well. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary question. Mr. Kinew: Now, only those folks who live with systemic inequity can fully appreciate its magnitude, and that's why those folks' voices need to be heard. Indigenous health leaders, gerontologists, those who advocate, people living in the community with dis - abilities.

They deserve to have their say as these triage protocols are developed. This is a conversation whose time is long past due and this issue is far too important to be decided behind closed doors. This issue is far too important to be decided on the fly. In this situation, let's make the protocol before it's needed, and only the government can make that happen. Will the Premier engage with representatives from Indigenous communities, seniors groups and Manitobans with disabilities to develop tria ge protocols? Mr.

Pallister: Our willingness to engage in a mean- ingful way on meaningful topics of joint concern, of singular concern, with Indigenous communities has been well established, not just during this pandemic. The tremendous co- operative wor k of our Indigenous team, in terms of rollouts of vaccines in northern communities –but the follow -up work, the educational work that we partnered on and I'm very proud of the–our Indigenous team's leadership and I'm also proud of our health-care leadership.

But I would emphasize to the member, the leader- ship on health- care decisions doesn't come from all - third-party groups. It comes from health-care experts. Grace Hospital Staffing Concerns Request for Out-of-Province Workers MLA Uzoma Asagwara (Union Station): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I've been in contact with nurses at the Grace Hospital. They provided me with this letter, which I table, and they explained that, due to rushed consolidation, they have patients waiting for days to get a hospital bed. And I quote: Waits reaching 50 hours are not uncommon. End quote.

Nurses are stretched too thin, patients are missing meals and there's gridlock in the hospital. The

3224 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 18, 2021 Province's cuts and consolidation have left hospitals poorly prepared for this serious health emergency. Will the minister intervene to address the serious concerns at Grace Hospital? Hon. Heather Stefanson (Minister of Health and Seniors Care): Well, I thank the member for the question, and, certainly, we're working very closely with our health-care partners to ensure that the capa- city is there for those that need it within our health - care system. That's why we're increasing the ICU capacity. That's why we're increasing nursing staff.

We have already announced that we will be add- ing 60 new full-time nursing positions to ICUs. More than 12 of those equivalent full -time employees will be dedicated to the Grace Hospital alone. We have also graduated, just last month, 39 new full-time posi- tions for ICUs, 28 started the course just last week and 14 more started this week and there's more to come. We recognize that there is a need for more ICU nurses. That's why we have been training those nurses– Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable minister's time is up. The honourable member for Union Station, on a supplementary question. MLA Asagwara: Mr.

Deputy Speaker, there are 1,300 vacant nursing positions right now, today, in Winnipeg. Nowhere is that more apparent than the Grace Hospital. Nurses write of code blues and sei - zures in hallways, patients missing meals, waits of 50 hours for a bed, gridlock across the hospital. Cuts and consolidation are taking their toll and the load on this particular hospital is immense. Now, unfortunately, hospitals and health staff are completely out of time. They need reinforcement today. Will the minister call upon assistance from other provinces to help shore up our health- care system today? Mrs.

Stefanson: I know that health- care officials have been working diligently to prepare for this third wave. Efforts have been focused on ensuring that we have sufficient staffing, sufficient supplies, equip- ment and space to ensure that we have that availability for Manitoba patients when they need it. It's why we've increased our ICU capacity. It's why we've increased our nursing staff. It's why we have made improvements in patient flow throughout our acute-care system, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

Now, I will, in my next answer, go back to the dark days of the previous NDP government where people were waiting not just in hallways, but lined up in highways, Mr. Deputy Speaker. We don't want to go back to those dark days. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for Union Station, on a final supplementary question. [interjection] Order. MLA Asagwara: Mr. Deputy Speaker, I would really like for the Minister of Health to focus on the dark days that are right now. Hospital foundations, including at the Grace, are making a plea for help. They don't have what they need.

And Grace nurses, too, in their letter, explain that they're completely overwhelmed in the hospital: long delays, patients on stretchers and a return of hallway medicine. An internal survey shows that half of the staff at the Grace are looking for positions elsewhere. Yet Grace is facing a very serious test right now. Manitoba is the epicentre of COVID-19 in North America. Help is needed. Help is being requested. Will the minister and the Premier (Mr. Pallister) call on assistance– Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member's time is up. Mrs. Stefanson: Mr.

Deputy Speaker, I'll remind the member opposite and all members opposite that we're in the middle of a worldwide pandemic. We recognize that there are challenges. That's why our health officials have been working diligently for the last number of months to incr ease the ICU capacity, to increase the nursing staff. That's why we've added 60 new ICU nurses, and more than 12 of them alone for the Grace Hospital, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Now, back in the 2000s –2014-15, at Grace Hospital alone, they had the longest wait times. They were the worst in Canada at the time.

And I will remind the member opposite that there wasn't – [interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order.

May 18, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3225 Mrs. Stefanson: –a worldwide pandemic on at the time. So what was their excuse back then? Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Order. Order. Order. COVID-19 Third Wave Projected ICU Cases Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St. Johns): Last year, when physicians raised serious concerns about the Pallister government's cuts to intensive care, the previous fail- ed minister said, and I quote, we got this, and that he questioned the motivation of our front-line physicians. We know that, in fact, he did not have control of the situation.

Manitoba ended up with a high mor - tality rate, nearly double tha t of our –neighbouring Saskatchewan. Now, in this third wave, Manitoba is already pro- jecting ICU use beyond the worst -case modelling, Deputy Speaker. Critical-care doctors are once again raising the alarm. Will the minister listen, or does she, too, question their motivations? Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): No ministerial team's ever dedicated itself to a task more–in a more focused way than this particular ministerial group has. And the member speaks about dedication.

All she has is blame-placing, but she won't place the blame in the right place, not appropriately, not directly, on her leader for setting a horrible example, for ignoring pub- lic health orders, for decrying the work of public health leaders. This is not what we're focused on doing on this side of the House. What we're focused on is testing, tracking, en- forcing, educating, vaccinating. What we're focused on is a global pandemic, as the previous minister was, as this minister is, as all these ministers are. We're focused on fighti ng the pandemic.

What are the members on the other side focused on? [interjection] * (14:00) Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Order. The honourable member for St. Johns, on a supplementary question. Systemic Inequality in Health Care Establishment of Triage Protocol Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St. Johns): Consolidation and cuts left intensive care badly prepared for a regular flu season, never mind a global pandemic. And it is still not prepared. Lanette Siragusa rightly told media yesterday the limit is not beds, it's staffing. The system is stretched.

The Pallister government must ensure a triage proto- col in place, in conjunction with Indigenous health leaders, experts in seniors care and representatives from the disability community. Will the minister and the Premier (Mr. Pallister) ensure that this is done today? [interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Hon. Heather Stefanson (Minister of Health and Seniors Care): What I will say to the member oppo- site is that we meet very regularly with our doctors in Manitoba. We meet regularly with nurses. We meet regularly with all of those in our health- care system and we meet regularly with Manitobans.

We're hearing loud and clear from them that the important thing right now to focus on, for all of us, is to ensure that every single Manitoban has access to the vaccine and gets the vaccine, and that is what will bring us through these very difficult times. Now, we have also been increasing patient flu – flow through our hospital system. We have increased the number of nurses by 60 in our acute-care hospitals to manage the ICUs and we will continue to work with health-care officials to ensure that we have a health - care system that's there for Manitobans when they need it. Mr.

Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for St. Johns, on a final supplementary question. Ms. Fontaine: This issue is too important to be done behind closed doors. Impact on ICUs is flashing red: far beyond the worst extreme-case scenarios, Deputy Speaker. The situation could deteriorate very rapidly. Intensive-care doctors are begging this government to do what must be done to ensure that ICU beds aren't overwhelmed and they must not be forced to make last-minute triage decisions.

Will the Pallister government engage represen - tatives from In digenous groups, seniors and people with disabilities in the development of a triage proto- col today?

3226 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 18, 2021 Mrs. Stefanson: Madam Speaker –or, Mr. Deputy Speaker, we've been working with health- care officials to ensure that we do everything we can so that doctors don't have to necessarily be put in that position to make those very difficult decisions. That's why we have been focusing on our vaccination campaign. That's why we've been pre - paring our hospital system. That's why it's–we've im- plemented some of the toughest restrictions in all of Canada. In fact, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, an ethical frame - work for COVID -19 has been developed to guide clinical decision -making. That document has been publicly available on the Internet for more than a year, and that will be used by our doctors to ensure that they follow that framework when making those decisions. It's doctors that make those decisions. It's not politicians, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Health-Care System Nurse Staffing Levels Mr. Matt Wiebe (Concordia): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Manitoba is seeing the worst nursing shortage in decades.

In fact, the president of the Manitoba Nurses Union, Darlene Jackson, says that nurses are, quote, overwhelmed. They're stretched thin and they've been forced to put in extreme overtim e, worse than any - thing she's seen in the last 40 years. In the midst of this pandemic, this government continues to deny nurses the safe staffing levels that they need to get their jobs done. This is resulting in major burnout. This is–this government has failed to come up with a real strategy to address the vacancy levels across this province.

Will the minister listen to the front lines, acknowledge that nurses need additional support and commit to fixing the nursing shortage today? Hon. Heather St efanson (Minister of Health and Seniors Care): We're listening to nurses and meeting with them all the time, Mr. Deputy Speaker. And what I will say is that we know that the nurs- ing shortage is something that we inherited as a government as a result o f the previous NDP govern- ment not fixing up the problem back then. We know that–from previous ministers of Health under the pre- vious NDP government, that there were challenges that they faced back then.

I will remind the members opposite again, we –they weren't in the middle of a worldwide pandemic at the time. We are. There are challenges right now that we are facing, and we are working with our nurses to ensure that we overcome some of those challenges. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for Concordia, on a supplementary question. Mr. Wiebe: The minister can try and spin this how - ever she'd like, but the numbers don't lie. Right now, 1,300 positions vacant in Winnipeg hospitals , hun- dreds more across the province.

And in this year's budget, this government cut funding for acute -care services by $13 million. This is reckless. This is irresponsible. We're in the pandemic. We're in a full -bowl–blown nursing crisis and our ICUs are overwhelmed, and this government's top priority continues to be cutt ing costs. This is shameful, and the government must act to fix this immediately. Will the minister recognize these staggering vacancy numbers, invest in our health- care system and commit to safe– Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member's time is up. [interjection] Order. Mrs.

Stefanson: Well, we are continuing to make investments in our health-care system each and every day. In fact, in the last budget it's–we're spending 17– $750 million more than the NDP ever did when they were in power. At that time, back in those days in the early 2000s–in the mid - and late 2000s, Mr. Deputy Speaker, members opposite had the chance to fix the problem with the 'nurthing' –nursing shortages at the time. I know they don't want to acknowledge – [interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Mrs.

Stefanson: –what happened in the past, but we are in the process of trying to clean up the mess from the previous NDP government. We are in the middle of a pandemic. We will listen to our nurses, we will work with our nurses. We'll work with our doctors, we'll 'wowk'–work with all of our health -care professionals to ensure that we have a health-care system that's there for Manitobans when they need it. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for Concordia, on a final supplementary question.

May 18, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3227 Mr. Wiebe: If this minister was serious about listening to nurses, they wouldn't be–[interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr. Wiebe: –on their fourth year without a contract from this government. In fact, this minister's treatment of nurses has been so bad the MNU called her latest contract proposal, quote, far too disturbing to even consider. Nurses are facing stagnant pay, unsafe staffing levels, extreme mandatory overtime, poor working conditions and a total lack of respect from this minister and the government. They deserve better, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

Will the minister finally listen to the front lines, respect those nurses with a fair contract and tackle the staffing shortage in this province today? Mrs. Stefanson: We have been encouraging those of- ficials to get back to the bargaining table, and I believe they have, and I think that's good news. We certainly want to see positive outcomes come. I'm –we want to ensure that there is a fair and a long -term agreement when it comes to nursing–or, nurses for Manitoba, and we encourage–and–that process to take place.

That process doesn't take place here on the floor of the Manitoba Legislature, it takes place at the bargaining table. We respect that process. Certainly, we on this side of the House respect that process. The question is, do members opposite? I don't think so, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Northern Health Care Nurse Vacancy Rates Ms. Danielle Adams (Thompson): Northern Manitobans have been raising their concerns about the declining health care in northern Manitoba for years. Nursing vacancy rates in northern Manitoba is far too high. It's unacceptable.

This government made a $1- million cut to the northern patient transport program, forcing Northern Health Region to cut $1 million in so -called savings and has cancelled the plan for the primary-care clinic in The Pas and the consultation clinic in Thompson. Why has this government allowed the state of health care to erode to such a dire state in northern Manitoba? Hon. Heather Stefanson (Minister of Health and Seniors Care): Well, I want to thank the member for the question.

I know we had a chance to have this discussion back on Friday in Estimates, and I look forward to continuing those discussions with the members opposite. In f act, we have put an emphasis on northern Manitoba and put –[interjection]–and invested – [interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Mrs. Stefanson: –many, many millions of dollars into northern Manitoba, into health care. What I will say, and –in this budget alone, we announced a medium -care facility that will be up in northern Manitoba. We discussed that on Friday.

The member opposite doesn't seem to want to mention that today, but we're–we will continue to be committed to ensuring that those in northern Manitoba have access to the care that they need closer to home. * (14:10) Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. The honourable member for Thompson, on a supplementary question. Ms. Adams: During Estimates, the minister explained the use of agency nurses has again increased in north- ern Manitoba. Last year it was $4 million.

That's an incredible cost for agency care when we should be focusing on building and retaining health-care profes- sionals in northern Manitoba. This government spent the last five years with growing vacancy rates, which means less care at the bedside; it means increasing 'reliancy' on agency nurs- es. This government doesn't seem to have a real plan to address this issue before the pandemic or since. What will the minister do today to fill nursing vacancies in northern Manitoba? Mrs. Stefanson: Well, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, we'll continue to clean up the mess of the previous NDP government where they didn't put an emphasis or a focus on recruitment or retention of nurses in northern Manitoba. So we'll continue along those lines. In the meantime, we have been utilizing agency nurses. I would hope that the member opposite is not suggesting that we should not utilize agency nurses, because that would put patients a t risk. So I ask the member opposite, is she not in favour of us utilizing agency nurses while we continue to clean up the mess of the previous NDP government?

3228 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 18, 2021 Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for Thompson, on a final supplementary question. Ms. Adams: I'm interested in the minister actually answering a question for once. This government has failed to provide northern Manitoba with the same level of accessible, quality health care that other people in parts of our province can access. This government's cuts and consolidations are actually incredibly harmful to communities in northern Manitoba. Health care is less accessible.

It forces many to travel unnecessarily during a pandemic to access the care they need, which costs all of us more. Why has the minister allowed the situation to get to this point in northern Manitoba? Mrs. Stefanson: Of course, we continue to clean up the mess of the previous NDP government. Recruit - ment and retention is nothing–of nurses and other health-care professionals to rural and northern com - munities is nothing new.

This has been faced by pre - vious ministers of Health under the previous NDP government, who have acknowledged the challenges associated with that, but the fact of the matter is they didn't fix the mess back then, and we're having to do that. We are in the middle of a pandemic. We will continue to work with all of our health- care profes- sionals to ensure we focus on what's important. We're not going to focus on ideology like members opposite. We're goin g to focus on patient safety and patient care. Public Health Orders Consequences of Violations Mr. Dougald Lamont (St.

Boniface): We all know there's a toll that comes with following public health orders. People's lives and livelihoods have been turned upside down. That's why, for all of us who've been taking public health orders seriously since day one, it is both infuriating and discouraging to see the same people ignoring public health orders again and again, apparently without consequence. I was w orking last Saturday at the Legislature when hundreds of pro- COVID protestors showed up for hours together to spread misinformation and, quite possibly, COVID variants. The government is defending its public health orders in court.

If our orders are so tough, why are we allowing pro-COVID activists to stage superspreader events on the front lawn of the Legislature? Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): Well, this is a global pandemic and it's been a difficult time for all, to put it mildly. And having public health orders that stop people from doing things that they've been accus - tomed to do all their lives is a difficult thing to impose, but it's necessary. And so we're forced to defend, of course, ourselves in court, as the member had alluded to, in doing this.

It's not an easy thing to tell people they can't socialize with their family. [interjection] It's not an easy thing, except for the member for Flin Flon (Mr. Lindsey), who has no friends –it's not easy – [interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr. Pallister: –to spend time away from friends. It's not easy–it's a difficult time– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr. Pallister: So it is difficult for members, like the member for St. Johns (Ms. Fontaine) for example, to understand why her leader would break public health orders. But we have instituted–[interjection] Mr.

Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr. Pallister: –the best enforcement, the strongest enforcement program in the country of Canada be - cause we're serious about defending the health and well-being of Manitobans, and we'll continue to do that very thing. [interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. The honourable member for St. Boniface, on a supplementary question. Mr.

Lamont: There does appear to be a contradiction at the core of the government's pandemic response and communications, because while the Premier says we have the toughest rules, fewer than 10 per cent of all the fines this government has handed out have been collected. The Premier's staff, MLAs, and even the NDP have ignored public health warnings in code red with no real consequences. And, contrary to the Premier's tough talk, Dr. Roussin has repeatedly said the Province has taken the least restrictive means.

May 18, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3229 We are now facing a surge in cases that is worse than the worst-case scenario. Is this government going to keep letting public heath scofflaws put us all at risk and let them get away with it? [interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr. Pallister: Well, again, nobody buys the thesis of the member. I won't defend the member's arguments, because they're indefensible. The fact of the matter is we have introduced very strong restrictions. We've introduced them earlier in the cycle of COVID than any other province, from Quebec to the west coas t.

We introduced them, and strengthened them even further twice. We did this in the hope that people would follow the public health orders, because it isn't just the orders, as the member's quite right to raise, it is the enforce - ment of and the following of those orders that is the thing that will determine how quickly we get through this third wave. And so I encourage all members of this House at every opportunity to not do what the Opposition Leader did and disrespect public health orders. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for Tyndall Park, on a final supplementary question.

Education Modernization Act Request for Withdrawal of Bill 64 Ms. Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): Manitobans have made it loud and clear that they are against Bill 64. Currently, over 4,000 Manitobans have signed our petition calling for a referendum. Thousands of Manitobans have put up signs on their lawns demon- strating their opposition towards the legislation. And hundreds of people have signed up to speak against Bill 64 at committee with the message that this is bad legislation and that it will have terrible repercussions for parents, students, teachers and education as a whole. Mr.

Deputy Speaker, it is clear that Manitobans are adamantly against Bill 64. Has t he government taken notice and will they withdraw the bill today? Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): Our education system is failing our children. We need to take neces- sary steps. They've been recommended by experts. They've been–elicited responses from thousands–tens of thousands of Manitobans in the development of these changes. The member is doing her job in opposing, but she is not doing her job in standing up for the children of our province. We will. Vehicle Registration Fees Reduction Announcement Mr.

Andrew Micklefield (Rossmere): Last week, the Minister of Infrastructure announced that our government will be reducing vehicle registration fees for a second year in a row. Could the minister update the House– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Micklefield: Could the minister please update the House on this exciting news and outline how this commitment will make life more affordable for Manitobans? Hon. Ron Schuler (Minister of Infrastructure): Mr. Speaker, I'd like to thank the member for Rossmere for that fantastic question.

And, as part of our government's Budget 2021 announcement, we've committed to protecting Manitobans' income by reducing vehicle registration fees by a further 10 per cent. That is $15 million back onto the kitchen tables of Manitoba families. This was $15 million taken by the NDP members off of the kitchen tables. Families need relief today in this time of a pandemic. Who voted against this $15 million? The same MLAs, the same NDP MLAs who took the $15 million voted against $15 million going back. We will stand up for families while the NDP votes against families every time. Mr.

Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for Wolseley. [interjection] Order. The honourable member for Wolseley, if you could 'unmic'–unmute your mic. North End Water Treatment Plant Investing in Canada Infrastructure Plan Ms. Lisa Naylor (Wolseley): The City of Winnipeg has already done a review and concluded that the long-term private operation of the North End water treatment plant is no t a feasible solution for Winnipeggers. The Pallister government has that external report in their hands. Nonetheless, the government is forcing

3230 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 18, 2021 the City to spend another $400,000 on a study. All that will do is delay this project again by up to two years. The deadline for provincial approval for infra - structure support is needed this month. Will the minister quit the delays and get on with building critical infrastructure for our province? * (14:20) Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): Well, actually, we're investing more in infrastructure than at any time in the history of our province. We're committed to continuing to invest in infrastructure.

We're putting infrastructure for Manitobans as a high priority, not ideology. The NDP appears to be willing to put ideology first and Manitobans last. We'd rather put Manitobans first instead. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for Wolseley, on a supplementary question. Ms. Naylor: Mr. Deputy Speaker, approval is needed this month for Investing in Canada plan dollars. The Pallister government has once again pushed an im - portant project right against–until the last moment and then found another way to stall.

The City has already found that the long- term private operation of the North End water treatme nt plant is not a feasible solution. Further delays are going to set the project back up to two years and make the project more expensive to build. Will the minister stop the delays and approve this project for ICIP funding today? Mr. Pallister: I guess it's a question of whether you want to put CUPE first and the CUPE bosses first or you want to put Manitoba's best interests first. That's the question the NDP has to address. That's what the NDP leader has to decide. Because Gary Doer liked the 3Ps.

He's used them a lot. He used them on the Disraeli bridge, Bill Clement parkway, the Southwest Transitway, the RT– An Honourable Member: Gary Doer? Mr. Pallister: Yes, Gary Doer and Greg Selinger never missed a ribbon cutting. So I'll tell you what – and even Flor Marcelino said public -private partner- ships can be an effective way of making investments for Manitoba. They're used all across Canada. The only provincial government that ever tried to outlaw them was the NDP here in Manitoba. We're talking about $70 billion of capital invest- ment.

We want –on this side of the House, we are committed to rebuilding the infrastructure of our pro- vince and filling the infrastructure deficit, and they're committed to tired ideology and catering to the CUPE union bosses. It's a shame, but it sure puts the dif - ference on display right well. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Time for oral questions has expired. PETITIONS Epilepsy Treatment MLA Uzoma Asagwara (Union Station): Mr. Deputy Speaker–[interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. MLA Asagwara: I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly.

To the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba, the reasons for this petition as follows:

(1) One in 10 Manitobans will have a seizure in their lifetime, and the incidenc e of epilepsy in Indigenous populations is double the national average. Epilepsy occurs just as often as breast and lung cancer world-wide.

(2) COVID -19 has cancelled epilepsy surgeries booked for Manitoba patients elsewhere in Canada because they cannot receive this standardly routine surgery in the province.

(3) Manitoba is the only province which has an inappropriate hospital environment to perform most epilepsy surgeries because it conducts epilepsy monitoring on an orthopedics ward with orthopedic staff, instead of an epilepsy ward with trained epilepsy staff.

(4) Patients in Manitoba have to wait three or more years for epilepsy surgery, which has resulted in them having to continue to suffer uncontrolled seizures, struggle with mental health issues, including depression, anxiety, headaches, general poor health and even death, in some cases.

(5) Since an epilepsy neurologist resigned in 2012, more neurologists have resigned due to healing–rather dealing with old and failing equipment, which has resulted in sending patients out of province, costing the provincial government millions of dollars.

(6) Epilepsy surgery is extremely effective, resulting in patients requiring less medication,

May 18, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3231 sometimes becoming seizure- free, enabling them to return to work, drive and live fulfilling lives. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the Minister of Health and Seniors Care to open a genuine, four-bed epilepsy unit, similar to the one recently opened in Saskatchewan, at the Health Sciences Centre, with modern equipment and adequate epilepsy neurosurgeons, neurologists, nurses, clerks and technicians.

(2) To urge the Minister of Health and Seniors Care to formally establish an epilepsy program to ensure that all epilepsy sta ff can deliver care to patients in a co-ordinated fashion. This has been signed by many Manitobans. Mr. Deputy Speaker: In accordance with our rule 133-6, when petitions are read, they are deemed to be received by the House. Mr. Ian Bushie (Keewatinook): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly– Mr. Deputy Speaker: The member for Keewatinook, if you can unmute your mic. Oh, we have a problem with the audio with the headset–with the mic.

Could you put the mic down to your mouth? Mr. Bushie: Mr. Deputy Speaker, I apologize. I was trying out a new headset there. I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. To the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba, these are the reasons for this petition:

(1) One i n 10 Manitobans will have a seizure in their lifetime, and the incidence of epilepsy in the Indigenous population is double the national average. Epilepsy occurs just as often as breast and lung cancer world-wide.

(2) COVID -19 has cancelled epilepsy surgeries booked for Manitoba patients elsewhere in Canada because they cannot receive this standardly routine surgery in the province.

(3) Manitoba is the only province which has an inappropriate hospital environment to perform most epilepsy surgeries because it conducts epilepsy mon- itoring on an orthopedics ward with orthopedic staff, instead of an epilepsy ward with trained epilepsy staff.

(4) Patients in Manitoba have to wait three or more years for epilepsy surgery, which has resulted in them having to continue to suffer uncontrolled seizures, struggle with mental health issues, including depression, anxiety, headaches, general poor health and even death, in some cases.

(5) Since an epilepsy neurologist resigned in 2012, more neurologists have resigned due to dealing with old and failing equipment, which has resulted in sending patients out of province, costing the provincial government millions of dollars.

(6) Epilepsy surgery is extremely effective, resulting in patients requiring less medication, s ome- times becoming seizure-free, enabling them to return to work, drive and live fulfilling lives. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the Minister of Health and Seniors Care to open a genuine, four-bed epilepsy unit, similar to the one recently opened in Saskatchewan, at the Health Sciences Centre, with modern equipment and adequate epilepsy neurosurgeons, neurologists, nurses, clerks and technicians.

(2) To urge the Minister of Health and Seniors Care to formally establish an epilepsy program to ensure that all epilepsy staff can deliver care to patients in a co-ordinated fashion. This has been signed by many Manitobans. Personal-Care Homes–Quality of Care Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly.

The background to this petition is as follows: Manitoba elders and seniors built this country and our province and should receive the highest level of support, having earned the right to be treated with due respect, dignity, understanding and compassion as a fundamental human right. Residents of personal-care homes deserve to have the best possible quality of life in their last few days, weeks, months or years. Yet family members are regularly left angry, frustrated, disappointment – disappointed and shocked at the care their loved ones receive in Manitoba's personal-care homes.

Seniors who reside in personal -care homes have the right to visitation by family members, especially those who provide day to day assistance in

3232 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 18, 2021 augmenting the care of their loved ones as designated family caregivers. These individuals are essential partners in care, actively and regularly participating in providing care, and may support feeding, mobility, personal hygiene, cognitive stimulation, communi - cation, meaningful connection, relational continuity, and assistance in decision making.

Legal representation, such as lawyers, powers of attorney, and health- care proxies, should always be allowed unlimited an d unrestricted access to the residents for whom they're responsible, as they depend on their designated legal representative to ensure proper and adequate care and act as legal designate for care decisions on their behalf. Most personal -care homes do not have enough health-care aides to adequately provide the afore - mentioned basic care for seniors with high and complex levels of physical and mental issues, such as those with dementia, coupled with multiple chronic conditions.

Residents often require assis tance in communicating their needs to overworked health-care aides, and most often this is accomplished with the assistance of designated family caregivers.

Because of the insufficient number of health-care aides, especially full-time staff available to personal- care home residents, often lack the most basic care, such as feeding, toileting, hydration, dental care, personal grooming, exercise and socialization. * (14:30) The lack of such basic care often leads to health issues such as periodontal diseas e, dehydration, urinary tract infections, sepsis, pressure ulcers: bedsores, and more, which often lead to hospitalization when left unreported.

Family members who advocate for improvements of such basic care can be dismissed or are met with resistance because there is not enough staff or funding to provide proper essential care. Family members who repeatedly put significant pressure on personal care home staff and management for the required basic care, according to the personal- care homes' own published standards, are often labelled as troublemakers and barred from entry into the home and/or contact with their loved ones. Care - home management will utilize The Petty Trespasses Act to justify their actions, rather than improve the level of care.

Under suc h circumstances, the additional stress and worry serves to increase the difficulty in the relationship between the resident, the family member and the personal care home, resulting in increased tensions and fear of reprisals. Concerns related to the above situation escalate when the barred family member receives information that their loved one's basic needs are not being met, further exacerbating the issue.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to establish an independent, non-partisan seniors advocate to ensure that care standards are being met in all Manitoba personal care homes, and to resolve disputes before harm comes to residents of personal care homes. To urge the provincial government to ensure residents of personal care homes receive adequate hands-on care to provide for their basic needs and ongoing physical care based on their individual requirements.

To urge the provincial government to ensure that the mental health needs of communi cation and socialization of personal care home residents are met through a combination of facilitated programs, sufficient staff on hand to provide these services, and adequate access to family members, designated family caregivers and other visitors, unde r all reasonable circumstances.

To urge the provincial government to enforce mechanisms that mandate operators to proactively and collaboratively work with designated family caregivers who augment care by ensuring they are allowed access to their loved on es under all reasonable circumstances, to provide active care and support to the residents' emotional well-being, health and quality of life. Signed by Stan Bernacki, Terry Bernacki, Joseph Bernacki, and many many other Manitobans. Diagnostic Testing Accessibility Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly.

The background of this petition is as follows:

(1) Until recently, diagnostic medical tests, including for blood and fluid samples, were available and accessible in most medical clinics.

(2) Dynacare blood test labs have consolidated their blood and fluid testing services by closing 25 of its labs.

May 18, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3233

(3) The provincial government has cut diagnostic testing at many clinic sites, and residents now have to travel to different locations to get their testing done, even for a simple blood test or urine sample.

(4) Further, travel challenges for vulnerable and elderly residents of northeast Winnipeg may result in fewer tests being done or delays in t esting, with the attendant effects of increased health -care costs and poorer individual patient outcomes.

(5) COVID-19 emergency rules have resulted in long outdoor lineups, putting vulnerable residents at further risk in extreme weather, be it hot or cold. Moreover, these long lineups have resulted in longer wait times for services and poorer service in general.

(6) Manitoba residents value the convenience and efficiency of the health-care system when they're able to give their samples at the time of the doctor visit. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to immedi - ately demand Dynacare maintain all the phlebotomy, blood sample sites existing prior to the COVID -19 public health emergency, and allow all Manitobans to get their blood and urine tests done when visiting their doctor, thereby facilitating local access to blood testing services. This petition is signed by many Manitobans.

Menstrual Product Availability Mrs. Bernadette Smith (Point Douglas): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) Many individuals have faced challenges in obtaining and affording period necessities.

(2) In Manitoba, women, non- binary individuals and trans people have been denied free access to essential period necessities, such as pads, tampons, menstrual cups and reusable options.

(3) The lack of free access to period items results in the perpetuation of poverty and deprives individuals of reasonable access to a basic health necessity.

(4) This petition aims to ensure that these items are free to access in public schools and within Manitoba's health-care system, and that no individual who requests them can be denied on the basis of gender or sex identity. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the Minister of Health and Seniors Care to implement free access to period necessities within public schools and Manitoba's health -care system.

(2) To [inaudible] of Health and Seniors Care to acknowledge the prevalence of people within Manitoba who are unable to afford essential period items. And this is signed by many Manitobans. Mr. Matt Wiebe (Concordia): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. And the background to this petition is as follows:

(1) Many individuals have faced challenges in obtaining and affording period necessities.

(2) In Manitoba, women, non- binary individuals and trans people have been denied fr ee access to essential period necessities, such as pads, tampons, menstrual cups and reusable options.

(3) The lack of free access to period items results in the perpetuation of 'proverty' and deprives individuals of reasonable access to a basic health necessity.

(4) This petition aims to ensure that these items are free in –to access in public schools and within Manitoba's health-care system, and that no individual who requests them can be denied on the basis of gender or sex identity. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the Minister of Health and Seniors Care to implement free access to period necessities within public schools and Manitoba's public health - care system; and

(2) To urge the Minister of Health and Seniors Care to acknowledge the prevalence of people within Manitoba who are unable to afford essential period items. And this petition, Mr. Deputy Speaker, is signed by many Manitobans. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Any further petitions? Grievances?

3234 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 18, 2021 ORDERS OF THE DAY (Continued) GOVERNMENT BUSINESS House Business Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Government House Leader): Pursuant to rule 33(7), I'm announcing that the private member's resolution to be considered on the next Tuesday of private members' business will be the one put forward by the honourable member for Dawson Trail (Mr. Lagassé). The title of the resolution is Recognizing the Provincial Government's Addictions Strategy. Mr.

Deputy Speaker: Pursuant to rule 37- 7, the honourable Government House Leader is an- nouncing that the private member's resolution be–of– considered for next Tuesday of private members' business will be the one put forward by the honourable member for Dawson Trail. The title of the resolution is Recognizing the Provincial Government's Addictions Strategy. * * * Mr. Goertzen: Could you please call the remainder of the report stage amendments on Bill 71, followed by third reading on Bill 71, if we get to that point. Mr.

Deputy Speaker: It's been announced by the honourable Government House Leader that we'll debate on report stage amendment of Bill 71, The Education Property Tax Reduction Act, then go on to the concurrence and third reading of Bill 71, The Education Property Tax Reduction Act, property tax and installation assistance act and the income tax act amended. DEBATE ON REPORT STAGE AMENDMENTS Bill 71–The Education Property Tax Reduction Act (Property Tax and Insulation Assistance Act and Income Tax Act Amended) Mr.

Deputy Speaker: So now the honourable member for Notre Dame, w hich has the additional – has nine minutes remaining. * (14:40) Ms. Malaya Marcelino (Notre Dame): The report stage amendment 3, this amendment puts forward by– has been put forward by the honourable member for Fort Garry (Mr. Wasyliw), and it prevents th e name, image or title of any Cabinet minister from being included with tax notices.

The reason why we in the opposition think that this amendment is necessary is because, as it stands, Bill 71 is moving us away from current traditional standard practice for a civil servant to sign cheques issued to the public. This is the way it's usually done to ensure that government payments are non-partisan. With Bill 71, the Premier (Mr. Pallister) will send a cheque–big amounts for large property owners or small amounts and clawbacks for everyone else –and these cheques will be signed by the Premier and come with correspondence or with his photo and a letter to the recipient.

This will provide this government and this Premier with a new form of retail politics or vote- buying. A cheque with the Premier's name and his photo and a letter from him provides a touchable bread-and-butter symbol to voters right in their mail - boxes. In May 2020, Manitoban seniors got a $200 cheque, regardless of income, and their cheques also came with a letter from the Premier. These che- ques cost the provincial Treasury an estimated $45 million for about 225,000 seniors. It was a flawed process because it was not targeted to low -income seniors.

Even Manitoba's wealthiest seniors, like the Premier, all received cheques. The Canadian Taxpayers Federation called out this government on the Premier's move to sign an attached letter to cheques. The Canadian Taxpayers Federation called the move– Mr. Deputy Speaker: A little freeze-up here. Wait a few seconds here. We'll just have a–wait a minute here. We're just having technical difficulties with the honourable member for Notre Dame with her Internet. Okay, so we have the honourable member for Notre Dame back online. So, the honourable member for Notre Dame?

Yes, I was wondering if the member from Notre Dame can unmute and maybe we can hear you. Ms. Marcelino: Okay. You're just upside down, Mr. Deputy Premier, here.

May 18, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3235 Mr. Deputy Speaker: Here you go. Whatever you did there, it worked. Ms. Marcelino: We'll try again, thank you. MacKay said that Manitoba should have an inde- pendent person, such as the Auditor General, to re - view government communications like the attached letters to cheques to ensure that they are not partisan. In 2013, Nova Scotia's then -premier, Darrell Dexter, faced accusations from the public of cam - paigning on the taxpayer dime when he wrote a note that accompanied rebate cheques to low -income seniors shortly before a provincial election.

In 2006, the Alberta government, under Premier Ralph Klein at the time, issued $400 cheques to all residents as a prosperity dividend from high oil prices and a large budget surplus. These $400 cheques were nicknamed Ralph bucks. Manitoba's Premier (Mr. Pallister) has said he is far from calling an election. He denies that he is not pandering to voters. He claims he is not engaging in vote buying. He was; he did; but, going forward, I would hope that this PC caucus support the amend- ment put forth by the honourable member for Fort Garry (Mr. Wasyliw) to put an end to the Premier's vote-buying.

I would ask the Premier and the PC caucus how would they feel if Manitoban parents who received the Canada Child Tax Benefit cheque every month had those cheques signed by the Prime Minister or Liberal Cabinet minister, Receiver General Anita Anand. I would ask how–the Premier and the PC caucus, if they think that it would be right if, with every Canada Child Tax Benefit cheque that Manitoba parents get, that those cheques should be accompanied with a picture of the Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau, with his big hair and colourful socks?

I would ask the Premier and the PC caucus if they think that it would be–there should be a new standard procedure going forward that every month Manitoba parents re ceive Canada Child Tax Benefit cheques that they should be accompanied with letters from Prime Minister Trudeau or the status of women's minister, letters directed to Manitoba mothers thank - ing them for being moms.

I'm pretty sure that the Manitoba Premier and this PC caucus that put forward Bill 71 and the cheques with the PC letters last May, that they would have a problem with the federal government doing that because it is obviously –it would be a partisan vote - buying move. But they're not. Canada Chi ld Tax Benefits are signed by Bill Matthews, a career public servant that is not pandering for votes. Bill Matthews is the Deputy Minister of Public Services and Procurement and a Deputy Receiver General for Canada.

Again, cheques from the federal government are issued by a career public servant that is not pandering for votes. This keeps the process non- partisan. This is the way it's been traditionally. This is a standard, and it should be kept this way going forward. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Is there any further speakers? Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the amendment? Some Honourable Members: Agreed. Mr. Deputy Speaker: I hear a no. Voice Vote Mr. Deputy Speaker: All those in favour of the amendment, please say yea. Some Honourable Members: Yea. Mr.

Deputy Speaker: All those opposed, please say nay. In my opinion, the Yeas have it. Recorded Vote Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (Official Opposition House Leader): A recorded vote, Deputy Speaker. Mr. Deputy Speaker: A recorded vote has been requested. Call in the members. * (14:50) The question before the House is report stage, third amendment for Bill 71, brought forward by the honourable member for Fort Garry.

3236 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 18, 2021 Division A RECORDED VOTE was taken, the result being as follows: Yeas Adams, Altomare, Asagwara, Brar, Bushie, Clarke, Cox, Cullen, Eichler, Ewasko, Fielding, Fontaine, Friesen, Gerrard, Goertzen, Gordon, Guenter, Helwer, Isleifson, Johnson, Johnston, Kinew, Lagassé, Lagimodiere, Lamont, Lamoureux, Lindsey, Maloway, Marcelino, Martin, Michaleski, Micklefield, Morley-Lecomte, Moses, Naylor, Nesbitt, Pedersen, Reyes, Sala, Sandhu, Schuler, Smith (Lagimodière), Smith (Point Douglas), Smook, Squires, Wasyliw, Wharton, Wiebe, Wishart, Wowchuk. Nays Clerk (Ms.

Patricia Chaychuk): Yeas 50, Nays 0. * (15:00) Mr. Deputy Speaker: The motion is accordingly passed. CONCURRENCE AND THIRD READINGS– AMENDED BILLS Bill 71–The Education Property Tax Reduction Act (Property Tax and Insulation Assistance Act and Income Tax Act Amended) Mr. Deputy Speaker: Now we'll go on to concurrence and third reading of Bill 71, The Education Property Tax Reduction Act, the property tax insulation assis tance act and the income tax amendment act. Hon. Scott Fielding (Minister of Finance): I move, seconded by the Minister of Infrastructure (Mr.

Schuler), that Bill 71, The Education Property Tax Reduction Act (Property Tax and Insulation Assistance Act and Income Tax Act Amended), reported from the Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development, and subsequently amended, be concurred in and now read for a third time and passed. Motion presented. Mr. Fielding: I am pleased to once again rise for a third reading of Bill 71.

I'm very happy to see the legislation move through the approval process, as it allows for the first phase of our government's pro - mised elimination of education property tax to begin rolling out to Manitoba property owners in the very near future, Mr. Deputy Speaker, with rebate cheques starting to arrive in the mailboxes in the next number of weeks. This will provide significant financial supports to homeowners, farmers and businesses as we look to- wards beginning our recovery from the pandemic.

As I previously indicated, this initiative is the largest tax cut in Manitoba hist ory–25 per cent this year and 25 per cent next year–something that will improve our province's competitiveness as a place to live, a place to do business, now and into the future. We know that for far too many Manitoba property owners, the elimination of education school taxes is long overdue, and we are looking forward to carrying out this commitment in full in the future years. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Mr.

Mark Wasyliw (Fort Garry): I wanted to spend a little time this afternoon talking about some of the presenters we heard at committee, because the government didn't consult on this bill, and I think it's clear from–everybody in the House said it was sort of slapped together. So I wanted to talk a little bit about how some of our community members view this bill and its impact on Manitoba. And the first group that we heard from were the school boards.

We heard from Alan Campbell, who is the Manitoba School Boards Association president, and a former president, Floyd Martens, who is also a schoo l trustee in Mountain View. And, you know, the first thing that Manitoba School Boards Association did was call out govern- ment's oft -repeated falsehood that Manitoba is the last province that collects school property taxes in Canada. This is a patently false claim. Seven pro- vinces continue to do so. The issue with those seven provinces is the rates are set by the provincial govern- ment and local communities have lost control – democratic control over the taxation.

And, of course, this government intends to do so even after this rebate. So this Province, provincial government, will be collecting taxes, and they've only committed to removing half of it in two years, and the minister has said that they may take the other 10 years to phase out the remainder. And so that's a long time for this minister to de - cide what property taxes will be paid in –across the province, without any sort of local autonomy and input. And that's the school board's concern, is that

May 18, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3237 Bill 71 begins the process of taking financial auto- nomy away from local school boards and with it is a democratic say in how local schools operate. The current system allows communities to have that say, and allows them to shape what their local school system would look like and make sure that it's actually responsive to the needs of their community.

We have a very diverse province with many unique communities, and with the start of the removal of fiscal autonomy from local communities, we're going to see a one-size-fits-all approach, and decisions about how those taxes will be spent are going to be done by the PC Cabinet minister and–who's often, you know, never been to any of these committees, never spoken to any community members, has no idea what they need. And those communities will still be taxed and they still will have to pay for this, but now they will lose control over their say as to how those taxes will be spent.

And school boards protect their local com mun- ities from provincial cuts, and we've seen that. We've seen that this Palliste r government has cut education funding year over year for five years in a row and that they have reduced, you know, overall education spending. At the same time, we've seen a growth of about 10,000 students in this province. And because school boards cur rently have local fiscal autonomy, they prevented our children from feeling the worst brunt of those cuts.

They had the power to backfill the PC's education cuts in revenue with local taxation, and that's another way our local school boards protect public education. They're also concerned about this adding com - plexity to our tax system, and confusion. And there was, of course, no consultation with local com - munities of where they're going to find the billions of– or the billion dollars to replace the money that they're planning to hand over to the wealthiest of Manitobans. We've heard concerns about the removal of edu - cation property tax on commercial properties.

This will result in an overall mill rate drop and it certainly could mean that residential home owners will see their taxes shift onto them. And we've seen that with cuts, that one time commercial properties paid the lion's share of education property tax and residences a smaller portion. That has now been flipped on its head with residential pro perties paying the lion's share of education property taxes. Under this cut, that system's going to get worse. And it's perverse, because commercial property owners are paying less somebody has to make up the difference.

That's going to be everyday homeowners and, in fact, you know, this government takes with, you know, one hand and gives a little bit back with the other. And so what we're going to see with this is that there will be a tax adjustment here, and I suspect that the remaining years that people are paying education property taxes those will go up because of the mill rate changes. And there is going to be nothing to prevent this government from making sure the education system is cut for good.

So without local fiscal autonomy to save our schools, when they make a cut –and they will, they most certainly will–it will get carried through and it will mean larger class sizes for our children, it will mean less specialty programs, it will mean less sup - port for our most vulnerable and needy children. And what we're going to see is, money raised in local communities, there's no guarantee it will actually go to the local schools. Right now it does.

So you will see some school areas where there was former school divisions raising this money, and the Pr ovince will ship that money out of those school divisions and put it to wherever they want, and that's going to create further problems down the road. So it seems to be the real goal here is the Pallister government thinks that our public education syste m has too much funding. They want it cut and they don't want those pesky school boards getting in the way of their cuts. And so if you want to make sure that you reduce funding for good, you have to get rid of school boards.

We just have to look at what happens with that type of system in Alberta. Calgary high schools have 47 kids in a classroom. They have local school boards, but they have no fiscal autonomy to stop it. * (15:10) You can look to Fort McMurray. They had a large influx of students. They were getting underfunded by the Province. They had no power to raise taxes to make up the shortfall. So what their solution was was to cut back the school week to four days.

Wasn't going to save any money on teachers, but what it did is it cut a day out of busing and they only needed to bus for four days, and that saved them $1 million and they were able to balance their budget on the backs of their children.

3238 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 18, 2021 Mr. Len Isleifson, Acting Speaker, in the Chair That was such a huge outcry when that happened in Alberta, the government was shamed there at actually finding the $1 million, which, you know, for an economy that size, really wasn't nothing. But that's where this Pallister government's taking us. This is their vision of public education. These are the things that we're going to be talking about in the future.

We heard from Evergreen School Division that they have had their funding cut five years in a row, and they make the point that tax rebates are a form of program spending by the government. So a ta x cut is just the same as a policy choice. So the Province is spending dollars collected for important public ser - vices such as education and they're taking those dollars and they're diverting them to wealthy property owners. And, of course, they're very c oncerned at Evergreen School Division that there was no dis - cussion about where the money is going to come from to replace it.

And the answer is, of course, there is no money. This is–an–the first step for permanent cuts to edu- cation funding and a reduction of the resources we put into public education. And a school board's mission is to protect the pub- lic education system. They have no other job. That's their one and central job, and this government wants to get rid of that safeguard, that protection t o the public.

And they make an important point that this tax rebate is going to shift money from public services to wealthy property owners, and that hurts low -income Manitobans because they rely on public services more than wealthy Manitobans do and they don't have the resources to simply pay for these public services–or services out of pocket, which wealthy Manitobans are. So their school board pays for school supplies, nutrition programs, junior kindergarten–all of that will be lost through education cuts. And they properly point out that tax rebate is being made on the backs of Manitoba parents and low-income families.

And they properly characterize Bill 71 as defunding education, and that's what it does. We heard from municipalities that municipal governments, they have to collect property tax for both their own municipality and for school taxes, and if somebody doesn't pay their school tax, a munici - pality's still obligated to pay it for them and pass it on to the local school district. Then the munic ipality becomes responsible to actually chase after the people who haven't paid their school tax.

Now, given that there hasn't been any sort of thought about this, Bill 71 is going to reward delin- quent tax people, people who haven't paid their taxes. They will still get a cheque from this govern ment. Even though they owe money to the government and haven't actually paid their taxes, they will still get a rebate from this government. I mean, how fair is that? And, of course, it isn't. And this isn't about tax fairness.

In fact, given it's a political stunt and it's been rushed through, there hasn't been these kinds of forethought and discussions with municipalities who are going to be on the hook to pay the Province now this money and chase after people who get rebate cheques and then don't actually spend it on what it's supposed to, which is their tax obligations. We heard from the Manitoba Federation of Labour. They made the point that all this is borrowed money. The original plan was to do this over 10 years once the budget was balanced. That's now changed. It's rushed through with a 50 per cent reduction in two years.

And it's seems that this government no longer cares about balanced budgets –at least not when it comes to wealthy tax cuts –and this move is actually going to make it harder to balance the budget. And they certainly properly have called this out as what it is: it's a political stunt. And the problem is it's a costly one and it–who's going to have to pay? Well, young workers. They're rent ers or modest homeowners. They'll either lose out because of the tax changes, they're going to get a very small amount if they're a modest homeowner –and the vast majority is going to benefit people like the Premier (Mr.

Pallister) and the Finance Ministe r, you know, large property developers, out-of-province real estate trusts, international agribusiness. Young workers are going to have to pay the interest on the money that was borrowed to pay for these handouts to the wealthiest of Manitoba. That's going to go on for years, so it's a double loss. They're going to lose as renters and modest homeowners, and then they're going to have to pay the interest on this huge government handout to the wealthiest of Manitoba. We heard from the Social Planning Coun cil Manitoba that this tax rebate will hurt renters, and we know that.

They're going to lose the $700 education

May 18, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3239 tax credit; it's going to be phased out. And there's 30 per cent of Manitoba households who are renters, over 400,000 Manitobans: seniors, youth, newcomers, people with modest incomes; basically, the most vulnerable in Manitoba are being targeted by this tax change. Somebody has to make up the difference for this and they are going to. And renters rely on this tax credit; it makes a big difference with poverty rates in Manitoba. It allows them a bit of money to get caught up with bills when they fall behind.

It's part of their planning, and for somebody with a modest income, $700 is a lot. You know, I appreciate the Finance Minister –that's what he'll spend on a nice, you know, bottle of wine and a meal with his family–but to regular Manitobans, that makes the difference between, you know, whether they're evicted or not. So last year, every single above- guideline rent increase has been approved and many people were seeing 30 per cent increases in rent; 24,000–over 24,000 units. Many are getting rent evicted. This government has known about this problem for years; they've done nothing.

At this point, they're complicit in it and obviously have no issue with it. And this bill is going to double down on that and make things worse. They say, well, you know, if the landlords aren't going to do the rent freeze, you can always go to the Residential Tenancies Branch. Well, that's under - staffed. Many people who are vulnerable don't have the wherewithal to take on an onerous, time - consuming, difficult legal battle with their landlords. So the system is rigged against them and it creates another barrier for them to get fair and affordable housing in Manitoba.

Of course, they know this, and this is all by design. This is all intentional. We heard from the Canadian centre of policy alternatives that made the point that property tax is Canada's version of a wealth tax. And so what the real intent here with t his bill is the Pallister government wants to reduce the tax on wealth, and this is going to disproportionately benefit wealthiest Manitobans, corporate landlords, agri - business.

And it's exactly those in the community who have the financial ability to pay , and removing them from the tax roll shifts the burden of taxation on those who can least afford to pay: low - and moderate - income renters. And they called on this government to make changes to the property tax so it's more progressive for seniors, low -income homeowners, moderate-income-level farmers, and we certainly would echo that sentiment. Homeowners–they make the point–have not been the hardest hit by COVID. It's been renters.

And if government believes that they need to give relief to anybody, it should be those that have been hardest hit. But in the upside -down wonderland-world alternate reality of the Pallister government, they do the opposite: they reward the people who actually have gotten through the pandemic and recession with the least amount of harm. So–and of course, they also make the valid observation that most Manitobans don't want this; this is not a priority for Manitoba. The Minister of Finance (Mr.

Fielding) was proud to speak about 50,000 Manitobans consulted during the budget con- sultation; they took all these polls. They put tax cuts on the polls and they were overwhelmingly –okay– dead last in each and every poll of Manitoba economic priorities. What does that tell you, when their own, you know, push polls come back and say that Manitobans don't want this and it's still the No. 1 priority of this government? I mean, what does that say?

It just tells you how out of touch they are, the bull in a china shop, and they're just going to bowl through, rewarding their, you know, wealthy donors and ignoring the needs of Manitoba. They make the point that we have a revenue problem in Manitoba. Revenue has fallen from 25 per cent of our GDP to 23 per cent. The Parliamentary Budget Office says that Manitoba is not on a fiscal path –it's not sustainable; we cannot pay for our current level of services at this current level of taxation.

So one of two things has to happen: we either have to raise up our taxes to pay for the services that we all need, or, as the Pallister government plan is, is you continue to cut services until it's sustainable. * (15:20) And this is the Finance Minister who's had two credit downgrades back to back. We've never had that in Manitoba's history, and the reason for that is that, yes, they balanced the budget off t he backs of Manitobans and by cutting services, but they also cut taxes to the point where it's still unsustainable, and it's completely fiscally irresponsible and reckless.

Education funding in Manitoba has been cut 7.6 per cent in the last five years. And, of course,

3240 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 18, 2021 there's no plan to replace money being cut from the education system here. And like ICU-bed reductions, lowering the capacity of the education system to actually do its job creates future crisis and costs more in the long run– The Acting Speaker (Len Isleifson): You've muted yourself. If you could, please unmute yourself and continue. Mr. Wasyliw: Okay. So, for the education system to keep what it has, the Province would have to add at least $75 million a year, or 3 per cent, for education inflation. That hasn't happened once.

They haven't even come close to that. Not only has –they've not met the consumer price index inflationary increase, they've frozen –or have actually given less to school boards. And, of course, they point out, and there's damn- ing studies that show that there has never been a jurisdiction anywhere that have reduced property tax and improved school performance at the same time. And that just makes sense. You don't cut your way to the top. You don't improve a school system by starving it of resources.

And then, of course, there is an issue with farmland here that needs to be addressed, which isn't by this government. A small portion of education property tax, about $64 million out of the $850 million. There's an iss ue here because we're seeing farmland concentration is skyrocketing assess- ment 'prites' in the last five years. We have record low interest rates, cheap to borrow and to buy land and with international factory farming you have to get bigger and faster in order to survive. Sheer survival for many farmers means loading up on debt to buy bigger and bigger pieces of property just to stay competitive.

We're seeing large corporate farms of 10,000 acres here in Manitoba. The family farm is absolutely disappearing. And, again, this government could care less. This government has said pretty clearly that they're on the side of international agribusiness and they have never supported small family farms; and like small businesses, they ab - solutely have shown contempt and their policies have actually hurt small businesses and small producers.

So we're seeing huge out -of-province pension funds come in and buy up these big corporate farms, there's bidding wars, they're jacking up farmland prices, and with higher the farmland prices, the more tax you pay on it. And this has nothing to do with education. And we have less than 54 per cent farmers now than we had 40 years ago, and that change is accelerating.

So we have a farmland concentration crisis that has nothing to do with education property tax, and this government continues to ignore it, it continues to see small farmers go out of business, it continues to see, you know, the mass concentration into these larger and larger corporate farms. And, again, this is just their absolute contempt for rural Manitoba. This hollows out rural communities. If you have land concentration, there's less people actually living in the community, there's less farm families. So there's less people going into town to shop, the local stores are empty on main street.

They can't stay in business because there's not enough people there. There's less retired farmers moving into town buying houses and it's 'devescating' for the local small-town tax base. This rebate is not capped. So if y ou operate a 10,000 acreage with millions of dollars of revenue every year, you're going to get the same 25 per cent rebate as does the small producer on a 1,000 acres. And, again, the large -estate owner will get the most benefit from this rebate.

And, y ou know, the Pallister government says, well, renters, well, there will be a market adjustment to lower the costs and pass it along to tenants. That's beyond ridiculous. Landlords don't actually compete against one another; they have a captive market. Peo ple get established in a neighbourhood, they have kids in schools, they have easy access to work, and they have, you know, they may have sup - ports in the community of their friends or relatives that help them out. They just can't get up and move.

And so, oftentimes, they're stuck where they are and they want to live where they are, and their land- lord can up the rent on them and it's too disruptive and too costly for them to move. And their quality of life diminishes, they–life becomes less affordable. But this government doesn't know any of this because they're completely out of touch; they simply don't understand how people live. There's very little affordable housing in Manitoba. They've been selling off what we have, making it even harder for Manitobans to find affordable alternatives, which is, again, also raising rent on Manitobans.

May 18, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3241 And, of course, we know small businesses won't benefit from this and they were hardest hit in our economy from COVID, and really, the Pallister government has shown their true colours here. They're absolutely hostile toward small businesses. They abandoned them after they made all these sacrifices to keep us all safe by closing, and for their trouble their landlords are getting rewarded while they'll continue to see rent increases and no rebates. They're no friend to small business. So, let's look at who will benefit from this.

We know large-estate owners will benefit and –the more expensive the property, the more tax you pay, the more you get a rebate. We know that wealthy Manitobans who own multiple properties benefit, that they'll get a–the $700 tax credit was only on principal residences, and if you're like the Premier (Mr. Pallister) and you have four homes or–you'll get, you know, more of a benefit.

And large corporate landlords will benefit, and it seems absolutely unconscionable that somebody who owns a 300-unit tower will be treated as a residential property owner just the same as somebody has a 700-square-foot bungalow, and they will be eligible for the same rebate. And, of course, you know, out-of- province corporate landlords, absentee landlords, people who are tax cheats who owe money to the government, real estate investment trusts –all these people are going to benefit from this tax. So, you know, what does it say about the Pallister government that this is their No. 1 legislative priority?

They were completely missing in action when it comes to the third wave. The vaccine rollout has been one of the worst in Canada. They have no economic recovery plan in place. Their entire legislative agenda has been Bill 71. We spent more days talking about this than COVID responses or recovery. And you have to ask, why is this the No. 1 priority for this government in a pandemic? Well, we know the Premier stands to be nefit personally. The con- servative estimates are $7,000 rebate cheques coming his way–15 times what the average Manitoban will get.

He also has a holding company; he hasn't disclosed how many properties are in that, so that number might be very, very low. We know that their caucus is filled with landlords, agribusiness owners and large -estate owners; they're going to stand to benefit a lot more than the average, you know, $350 for northwest Winnipeg home. And we look at the Pallister government's cam - paign donors; you've got to follow the money, here. Who funds this monstrosity of a government?

It was an interesting report that came out from PressProgress on–did analysis of the top donor of the PC Party of Manitoba–30 per cent of their top donors have ties to Manitoba real estate and construction industries, 14 per cent had connections to agribusiness. So it's no accident that 44 per cent of their top donors will directly benefit from this tax change.

We have the CEO of one of the largest agri - businesses in the country, Paterson GlobalFoods; we have the CEO of Qualico, a major real estate developer; we have the director from James Richardson & Sons, a huge agribusiness and real estate company; we have the president of Ladco Company, a major Winnipeg developer; we have the president of Borland Construction that builds real estate developments; we have, you know, Marquess's developments, another large real estate developer with controversial Parker Lands development in my riding.

And it's no accident tha t they donate to the PC Party and, in turn, the PC bring in this tax changes that directly benefit their donors. I mean, all this is just, you know, it's how the PCs govern. It's crony capitalism. We did hear from a couple members from the Manitoba Real Estate Association, and they're always very strong advocates for their members and do a great job, as always. It's great to see them. But some of their arguments, I think, need to be addressed. They claim that this will help affordability with homeownership. But with the greatest of respect, it won't.

There's a housing bubble right now with cheap credit and house prizes have been shooting up. Many young first -time owners can't even afford to buy a home right now, and so this rebate won't help them at all. * (15:30) And if you do actually have money to buy a home, they take into account your situation with the home, and lower taxes will extend more credit to an indi - vidual buyer and that will allow the person to spend more on a house than they otherwis e would be.

And so, instead of giving that money to the government, they're going to be giving it to a bank and they'll be paying it in interest–higher interest charges. So the reality is is modest homeowners will not see a benefit from this.

3242 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 18, 2021 Secondly, of course, municipalities have been cut and underfunded by this government for five years. They're starving for money. They've been advocating for the education property tax removal from municipal bills, and the reason is it's not out of the goodness out of their hearts; it's out of self -interest. They want to use that tax room to raise taxes to backfill the cuts and underfunding for municipalities.

So the minute that this tax change comes in, you're going to see municipalities raising their prop - erty taxes and taking up the space that was vacated by the education property taxes. People will not benefit from this in the long run and ultimately their taxes are going to go up. So, by giving tax breaks to the wealthiest, we're concentrating wealth in a very tiny elite in Manitoba. You know, these people can only buy so many houses. The Premier's (Mr. Pallister) doing his part with four, but you know, at some point, he just doesn't need a fifth or a sixth. At some point, these people can't con- sume any more.

So, if you want to see more housing stock built, if you want to see more people actually purchasing housing, you have to get money into the hands of the people who don't currently have it because they will spend it and they will actually bring in economic growth in a way that hoarding money for wealthy people will not.

So everything about this bill is problematic: the speed in which it was introduced, the arbitrary dead - lines that it had to pass by the end of May so cheques can come out in June, the fact that the Premier and his Cabinet disproportionately benefit from this tax while most Manitobans will be left behind, fact that major donors stand to disproportionately benefit from this, the fact that all Manitoba renters will be worse off from this change, t he fact that there is no plan to replace this income in an already struggling and underfunded education system. This all smacks of self-dealing.

There's this sleazy undertone, unseemly aspect to this entire bill in how it was come into law and, really, i t needs to be with - drawn and go back to the drawing board. You know, we certainly will do our part to give progressive tax change recommendations that actually will help benefit Manitobans. The government has been tone deaf every step of the way with this bill and they're pushing it through no matter how ill conceived it is or how harmful its consequences are and, Mr. Deputy Speaker, we cannot, in any good conscience, support this bill. Thank you very much. Mr. Jamie Moses (St.

Vital): Pleased to spea k on Bill 71 this afternoon. and I want to thank my colleague for Fort Garry for his words and I think quite–do an excellent job of summarizing the issues with Bill 71. I do want to just bring up a few other points and just to talk about them for a few minutes regarding the issues around Bill 71. First of all, I want to go back to the Premier's – how this idea came out for the Premier in terms of moving away from education on property taxes.

This was a last -minute-ditch idea that the Premier had in the waning days of the campaign as his numbers were slipping and he looked for an announcement to bolster support in the last few days of the election. This wasn't some well -thought-out, well - 'consultated' idea that had experts on side about how it would –how it c ould be administered or with any leading, you know, any knowledge experts or com - munity people who could really say that this is a plan that could work; this is a plan that would benefit both education and that –property owners.

No, this was a last-minute idea that the Premier must have come up with some campaign staff in order to boost some support during the last days of the election. Then–since then, he's had time to actually work out the kinks of this idea –since the 2019 election. We're on a year and a half since then. This bill was introduced just over a month ago, but it seems that the Premier failed to do any work, to do any consultative work to actually plan out how this bill could be executed.

It looks as though it went straight from the waning the days of that campaign as a last-ditch effort to bolster some low numbers dir - ectly into this to legislation and Bill 71, without any further research or study into how to actually properly administer a property tax change as such –as large as this.

It looks like they didn't consider the impact that it would have on low property–low-income individuals in our province; middle-size homeowner or small-size homeowners, which–where their property value isn't as high; looks like they didn't consider the impact that it would have on our real estate and our commercial business owners, our farmland owners. And, as well, you know, when you look at all these things in consideration together, you look at a

May 18, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3243 piece of legislation that came out from a bad idea. And that's what it is. It's a bad legislation because it was based on bad idea that had no fully thought-out plan when it first being conceived, and as a result we see today a piece of legislation that not only doesn't benefit most Manitobans, it actually activel y hurts financially many, many Manitobans. On top of this, the Premier (Mr. Pallister) has – chose to bring this forward in a year where they're also choosing to present a budget that is in–that puts us into deficit.

Now, combining that with a tax cut –a tax cut for–which mostly goes to the wealthiest Manitobans– and I think that's indisputable–is a terrible decision for the outlook and–our economic outlook and our eco- nomic forecast. Anyone who's done even a very basic level of research or study would know that especially during times when there's economic downturn, recession, such as what we're seeing now, our benefit –our economy benefits when it see financial boosts. And these financial boosts and –often come from state or government programs.

Now, this bill puts more money into the hands of the people who need it least, the people who are the most financially secure in our province. What those people do when they have extra cash is not to spend it and grow our economy and boost sales at local businesses, it's usually to either save it or to spend it out of province on, you know, vacation resorts or larger purchases that may be based outside of Manitoba.

Middle-income and lower income people tend to spend extra cash they have investing in their –bene- fiting their own lives, their own homes in needed supplies and services or themselves and their family. That's how our economy grows by individuals spend- ing a little bit more in our economy, bettering their own economic outlook as an individual or as a family and building off that to grow all of our industries in our province.

But by this government making this, I think in my mind completely irrational decision by introducing Bill 71 with this current structure of a flat rebate, which disproportionately bene fits the wealthy Manitobans, it has–not only will hurt the low-income individuals but it doesn't grow our economy. And I think everyone on the other side has an interest in growing our economy. * (15:40) Many people on government's side come from business backgrounds, small -business owners or worked there. They know–they know how important it is for a community to have cash flow so that our small businesses can thrive.

This doesn't add to Manitobans' cash flow a whole lot. It doesn't. If you want to compare what the richest, the wealthiest Manitobans are getting out of Bill 71, and you want to compare what the low -income peoples– the ones who will drive and continue to drive eco- nomic growth in our province will receive, it's night and day. And members opposite should be very aware of that because its impacts are huge and they're quite frankly staggering that this government would take this approach, because of –not just because it's a bad idea but especially because of the timing.

This pandemic requires all of us–all businesses– to grow out of it together, requires us to make some strong and different choices about how we are going to grow out of our economy together. Because we know it's disproportionately affected people of dif - ferent groups, disproportionately negative. And what I mean is it's very evident that women have been – suffered the worst aspects of, economically, of this pandemic.

They've often suffered more job loss; they've had incomes decrease more; they tend to work in fields where the COVI D virus has spread more quickly, such as in health care, long- term care, edu - cation, child care, where their work and their lives have been more disrupted. And so as we're looking at ways to retool our economy so that it can be more effective into the future, a bill that would change the way property taxes work should have those type of considerations in mind. Now, it's clear –as I mentioned off the top–that this bill was thought out well before the coronavirus came to our province.

But you'd think that a sensible government would look at our current atmosphere and our current situation in our province and be adaptable and look at their proposed idea and see how it could better fit our current climate, our current atmosphere.

Considering that we're in a pandemic and con- sidering the state of our economy and who suffered most as the economy declined over the last year, bill– a bill like 71, where you're making significant changes to our property tax, could have been an opportunity for this government to make a strong choice, make a choice to actually help Manitobans who need it the most, to help women who have had–suffered worse during–under this economic decline, minorities who

3244 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 18, 2021 have consistently been underrepresented in many eco- nomic factors in our econo my, to assist Indigenous people in our province who, again, are looking for this government to just listen and understand their con- cerns and be working partners with them. And again, this is a failure not just of–you know– a bill that came from a bad idea, but a failure of this government to be adaptable, to listen and to understand what is going on in our province right now; and this bill is so out of touch.

And I think, if anything else, that is the biggest theme, the biggest consistent message that I've seen with this govern - ment over the last few years: that they're simply out of touch with the actual needs of Manitobans, what people are actually concerned about. And I bring this up as Bill 71 relates to education. Now, when I speak with people in my constituency– and I know this sentiment is echoed with people across certainly southeast Winnipeg, but across our city and our province –that they're looking for, you know, better education for their kids, for students in our K-to-12 system.

And when we ta lk about how do we get better education, we talk about things like more teachers in the classroom, with a smaller teacher –lower teacher- to-student ratio. We talk about things like ensuring that there are supports in schools for mental health, supports in s chools for people with disabilities, ensuring that our schools can become sort of com - munity hubs, where people can access resources and they–because they know they trust their school, they love their school, they like their school and they want it to be p art of their community.

They want to be somewhere where they know their kids –families know their kids are going to get a good education. And they want to be able to trust that system, trust the teachers, trust the principals. But Bill 64, as it was brought in, strips a lot of that away. And Bill 71 goes hand in hand with Bill 64. As we cut and take away funding from our education system, as Bill 71 proposes, it really shows this gov- ernment's true motives with education.

And I think all Manitobans, so many Manitobans, in fact, thousands and thousands of Manitobans, have rightfully voiced their opinion and will continue to voice their opinion and objection to Bill 64, and I think rightfully so. I also know that this government is, right now, trying to play a little shell game, a little game of–they say that with Bill 64 they'll save us $40 million, perhaps, or put $40 million back into education. They'll say that in the front but in their back what they're going to do is they're going to take $200 million in Bill 71 right out of your back pocket.

So they give you 40 and take out 200. And then the next year they're going to take out another $200 million out of education, another 25 per cent. Now, in the time from 2019, when the Premier (Mr. Pallister) first mentioned Bill 71, to today, has there been a clear explanation about where the education system is going to make up the remaining, those dollars, that roughly $200 million that's going to come out of education with this 25 per cent? Have they clearly explained where the next $200 million is going to come out of –come from –to our education system as a result of this bill? No.

Again, they've had months and months and months of saying this promise with no backup and no information on how this money is going to be made up. Is this just simply a way to cut money from education? You say it's not. You say it's going to be made, perhaps, through, you know, going to be made up through our income taxes and general revenue. Well, we all know that the money's got to come from somewhere. So, I'd like, perhaps, after I have finished my debate today, that another member on government side, perhaps a minister, to step forward and clearly state where the money is going to come from.

Is it going to come from education? I s $200 million going to get cut from education? Or are you going to raise taxes, our income taxes, by $200 million? Or is it going to come from somewhere else? Are you going to cut $200 million from health care? Please explain. It's not clear to us in thi s Chamber; it's not clear to Manitobans; it's not clear to administrators in schools, to teachers, to principals; it's not clear to parents; it's not clear to students, who are the ones who are going to be facing these cuts and feel the largest impact of these cuts.

You can't, you know –you've made, you know, such a large change in Bill 64–I think all these folks are rightfully so–that a lot of people are talking about 64 and, you know, they're not realizing that there's such a huge critical impact of Bill 71. Because $200 million are going to be cut from our education system this year. And, you know, I'd like to hear if it's going to come from education. I think students ought to deserve –deserve the right to know what of their programs are going to be cut, if $200 million is being reduced from education.

May 18, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3245 Are they going to have larger classroom sizes because they have less teachers in their school? Are their extracurricular programs going to be gone? I don't know. I really don't know, because, again, this government, even though they've had time to explain these things, they've chosen not to. They've chosen not to because perhaps they're–I don't know –ashamed of what they have to do to give their friends and the wealthiest Manitobans a bit of a tax break. Or maybe they just don't have a plan. It's quite possible they just haven't thought about it.

Maybe they're realizing this for the first time or maybe they know and just think someone else will be–someone else will figure it out later on. I don't know. I'd love for someone to explain how –where the money's going to come from, what programs are going to get cut or reduced and who will be feeling the impacts of Bill 71.

Because while we talk about edu- cation and the minister says that they're realigning and adjusting and taking from the top, putting it back, taking $40 million from the top of the education system and putting it back into the classroom, at the same time they're taking $200 million right out. That's a fact that can't be ignored. * (15:50) And I'll just wrap up my comments in debate today by really stressing that in this time and in this era we're in, there's a whole generation of people who are now watching these decisions.

I think many people in the younger generations are politically active a nd are seeing the decision makers make decisions that are not in their best interests. And I think that many people now –possibly because they've had a lot more, you know, time during the pandemic–are paying attention and they're aware of these issues, and they're seeing decision makers, legislators in this House consistently, time and again, fail to listen to Manitobans, fail to consider the impacts of their decisions and simply make decision after decision that hurts their lives.

And Manitobans are, quite frankly, tired of this Pallister government repeating those mistakes again and again and failing to learn from their mistakes again and again. And that's why Bill 71 along with Bill 64 not only go to radically shift our education system and strip away so much of the positive benefits that we get from having a strong K -to-12 system. Yes, it's a K -to-12 system that we know can be improved, but we know won't be improved with Bill 64.

And along with what Bill 71 does to impact the finances in our education system, there is no doubt that this will have a negative impact across our province for generations. So I urge all members to strongly consider those facts that I've brought up and have been brought up by many members on my side and make the decision to vote against Bill 71 today. Thank you. Mr. Dougald Lamont (St.

Boniface): We have expressed our concerns about this bill a number of times over, but it's worth going over it again both to deal with the specific impacts of what's wrong with this bill, but also to look a bit at the bigger picture, because one of the reasons this bill is being brought forward despite the fact that we have a very significant deficit and that it will add enormously to the deficit, and that this is a government that has had, I believe, at least two if not–two credit rating downgrades, in part because they've–were communicating that they were going to cut taxes and–without being able to pay the debt.

These are all a major concern. And, you know, sometimes people like to say that government should be run like a business, and it's clear to me that there are certain very specific ways in which this government has decided to run government like a business in ways that are worrisome. So one of them is–has to do with the degree of–to which we would say there's interesting accounting, but this is not new. I believe the Auditor General pointed out that there are three different

definitions of deficit that this government currently hews to, with major disagreements over–between the Department of Finance and the Auditor General over whether this g

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	42-3-65b
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	42nd 3rd hansardpdf 65b.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	270412f5bc87a62463ba80027da8b7d60dd3503b

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