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March 13,1980 The House ~et at 3:00 P.M. ~r . Speaker in the Chair. MR.SPEAKER (Simms) Tape No. 344 AH-1 Order, please! ORAL QUESTIONS MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for LaPoile . MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I was 30i:1g to ask the Minister of Consumer Affairs (Mrs.Newhook) a question, but in her absence I guess I will have to ask ~he Premier.

When people's minds in this Province were focussed on other matters such as the federal election, Sir, and the offshore ownership and so forth,the big oil companies nudged up the price of gasoline in Newfoundland,and it varies apparently from region to region, from anywhere f~om three to four cents, It seems 'to me to be rather strange, .:.fr. Speaker, chat the oil companies on the same day, same date, put up thei~ gasoline ?rices by three to four cent3 1 exactly the same 3.mount.

I Nould like to ask the Premier if he is aware of this-that is apart now from any increase that is ~reposed by Ottawa,~hether it is the former governme~t or ~~e present government -if the Premier is aware of this and if ~e directed the Depar~ment of Consumer A~fairs ~o look in~o it? MR. SPEAKER: ?REMIER PECKFORD: The han. ~he ?~:mi~~- Mr. Speaker, I 5hall consult wich the ~inister of Consumer A~fairs (Mrs ~ewhook) and the ~inister of Ene~g:r (Y!r. 3ar~

y) this afternoon a.rrd ensure that ~= !:.here are ~ny inap~ropriate, im9roper procedures being followed by the companies ~s i: rel2tes to this very ~mportant matter t~at we will get right on top of it and kee9 the ho~. ~ember informed. >!R. NEARY: :1R. SPEAKER: for LaPoile. A suSJ:;>lementary. A supplementary. The ho~. member 694

Ma.!:ch 13, 1980 Tape No. 344 AH-2 :-JR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. gentleman for his answer, but the han. gentleman knows that this ~s a federal matter which falls under the Federal Combines Act and is a practice that has been going on for a good many years, I presume, not only in this Province but probably in other provinces of canada. I think the provincial government and the Minister of Consumer Affairs (M rs.

Newhook) 3hould take a look at the ~ederal Combines Act and 5ee if there has been a violation of that act because it is too much of a coincidence and the practice has been allowed to go on for too long, the oil companies putting up their gasoline prices on the same day, same hour, by the same amount and I would like to ask the hon. MR. MARSHALL: MR. SPEAKER (SIMMS) of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, on a point of order. Orde::-, please! The hon. P.!:esident The hon . gentleman is being out of order. His question has already been answered.

Be is ~ut of order because of the fact that he is asking tt1a ministry here a question ~or which it is not r~sponsible a~d I refer ~o 9aauches~e, page 130, ~aragraph 357, 3ub-paraqra~h ~ where it is prohibited to ask questions dealing ~ith an actioP. ~i a minister for which he is not responsible to parliament or with matters nee wit~in his official knowledge. The next o~e; raise matters under the control of local ~uthoricies not responsible to government or to the Legislature. So the question is really out of order despite t~e fa=t chat it has been ans~ered in substance already.

And al3o the second point is that the ~on. member is also making a spe-:ch~ MR. SPEA?::.::R: With respect to the point of order, I would rule that there is a point of order in this particular ~atter ~nd furthe~ to that the han. member, I beli2ve, was beginning co 895

March 13, 1980 Tape No. 344 IB-3 MR. SPEAKER: offer opinion as well at the

preamble to his question. If he has a question which he would like to ask and rephrase it in a different manner, I would ask him to direct that question now. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Premie~, in tte absen~e of the Minister of Consumer Affairs, if S,,., ;JO

March l3, 1980 Tape 345 EC - l MR. S. NEARY: the provincial government would undertake to do a study in this Province to try to determine why the price of gasoline differs from one part of the Province to ano~~er, why there is a difference of almost ten cents a gallon in gasoline, for instance, in Port aux Basgues compared to gasoline here on the East Coast ·?

That study was done once before and the Minister of Consumer Affairs - this is provincial, by the way, in case the hon. gentleman does not know - the Minister of Consumer Affairs merely came back and said, 'Well, what they need is self-service stations, they need stiffer competition.' Well, that is not good enough, Sir, and I would like to ask the Premier if he will direct his Minister of Consusner Affairs (Mrs. !i, Newhooltl to undertake a.., in-dep~'l study to find out why we cannot have uniform prices of gasoline in this Province and to enforce any regulations in tn.t regard that ~~e Minister of Consumer Affairs provincially may be responsible for?

MR. SPEAKER {Simms) P E!EMIER P ECXFORD: The hon. the Premier. Mr. Speaker, we will do all in our power to ensure that if ~'lere is a difference in prices in different geographic regions of the Province wh~ch is not justified, that the appropriate authorities are so notified, and if1 in the process of es~ablishing ~'lat, it is to be found that laws or r~gulations under ~"le purvie·.., of t..~e Government of Newfoundland and La.bracior or U...T'lder ~~is Legislature are in violation, we will ensure that ~'lose people who nave broken them will be taken to task and that it will no~ happen again. MR. SPEA!<ER: MR. D.

JAMIESON: The hen. the ~ader of ~~e Opposition. Mr. Speaker, a question for ~he r.or. . the Premier. Could he confi~ reports that he is likely to be in the near future meeting wi~~ representatives of ~e federal government, including perhaps the Prime Minis~er? Has he initiated any sort of arrangem~.,ts for such meetings and can he advise the House if ~~ything specific has been se~tled? ~- SPEAKER: The hen. the Premier. 897

!'.arc !'! l:l, 198 0 Tape 345 EC- 2 ~~MIER PECKFORD: 'les, Mr. Speaker 1 we are in the process right now of communicating with a number of ministers in the federal government, and, in that regard, have been also in cOIIIIIIWlication with our minister in the feder~ cabinet, hopefully I will be talking to lUm over the weekend. And we are in the process, as I say.

Nothing has ,been firmed up for da.tes yet 9f a possible meeting 1 ill the first insUDc:e to lileet with the minister responsible for D~ to try to expedite a number of Dl!EE agreements which vere ready for siqn:inq and had just about been signed, real.ly, when the federal election eame about: and then during the campaign it was felt then by the government or the day that they should not be signed during the campaign. But they are all ready for siqninq and have passed throuqh all the appropriate aqencies and bureaucratic processes of the federal government.

I want to meet early with the Province's representative in the federal Cabinet and with the minister of ORE£ and we are in the process of also seeing •othether we can arrange a meeting with the Prime Minister. 898

=~ March 13, 1980 ~~- D. JAMIESON: MR SPEAKER: (Simms) of the Opposition. MR. D. J~~SON: his answer. In connection with Tape No. 346 SD - l A supplementary, Mr. Spea.'<er. A supplementary, the hon. Leader I thank the hon. the Premier for what might be described as a First Ministers' meeting, is it the Premier's thought that it would be merely a sort of an initial informal exchange? I have in mind that the prior meeting was based upon a document of subjects for discussion which I believe the Premier laid on the Table of the House, at least it is a public document.

I am just curious as to whether or not it is just sort of informal at first or would the Premier prefer, for example, or would he suggest to the Prime Minister that it be on the basis ot some kind of formal agenda? ~- SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PRE~~ER PECKFORD: Yes, I would like to see it on some kind of formal agenda basis.

And on ~~at score we are now updating the~ presentation that we made to the former government highlighting the major issues which face the Province and obviously face the federal goverrJment also in our ongoing relationships. 5o that updating will be finished in another four or five days, we will ~hen send it ~o tae PrL~e ~~nister and to the appropriate ministries 1 but it will be capsuled for the Prime Minister and it would be those issues that we would want to then address ourselves to when we :!et . .,ith the Prime Minister and would give him ~ufficient time to have that information before in tact we have the formal meeting. ~- D.

JAMIESON: Final supplementary, Mr. Speaker. l1R. SPEAKER: Final supplementary, the hon. t.'l.e Leader of the Opposition. MR. D. JAMIESON: On ~~e very practical point of getting the DREE agreement signed,because I have no doubt that many of them will involve bot.'> employment and improvement of services and t.'>a~ type of thing, the package, if you wish, that is in a sense 699

Marc.'l 13, 1980 Tape No. 346 SD - 2 MR. D. JAMIESON: ready to go ahead, who within the provincial government - is it the hon. the Premier as ~.inister of Interqovernmental Affairs responsible, in other words, the Premier would be directly dealing with DREE on this matter? And is it 1 for instance 1practical to think that it might be feasible to that particular matter off , in a sense - PREMIER PECXFORD: Yes. ~~. D. JAMIESON: - to say, look, let us get that signed and get it out of the way so that work can be;in in, let us say, the current season. ~R. SPEA.~R: (Simms) PREMIER PECXFORD: The hen. the Premier.

Yes, that is ~hat I am tr;ing to do. As a matter cf fact, Mr. Speaker, I am attempting_ I do not want to bother the Prime ~.inister with DREE agreements.

I would rather deal directly with the ministe~ responsible for DREE and the minister in ~'le Federal Cabinet,then have them deal with pushtng that ~~rough. so that does not become - There are more major long-~erm issues with which I would like to speak to the Prime Minister and ! am hopeful that in my communications now ongoing with DREE and with the new minister and with the minister in the Federal Cabinet that the four agreements that ·are there, tlla't everybody agrees on ·.cne , the forestry agreement, which is overdue now ar.d ~ich could be done.

The second one that has gone through the full system is the Coastal Labrador agreement; that is ready and it has gone ~'trough the full system and ·v~~body is in agreement. There are two minor o~es: just an i~terim one for NORDCO for a year until they have a five year proposal and package for both governments ~uc before everybocy; and a lane and mapping one, a very minor one. So there is really only two there, the others are ongoing, have been 900

~arch 13, 1980 Tape No. 347 EL - 1 PREMIER PECKFORD: when the hon. gentleman was, and he understands those, remembers seeing those before. And even the forestry one is just an ongoing one. MR. S. NEARY: PRE~IER ?ECKFORD: To the Outer Ring Road in it? The Coastal Labrador one is the only new of those four which are priority items to get signed because everybody has agreed to them. Then come a number of new agreements that are ~resently in the system, or are about to be in the system. example, is - The industrial development one, for ~R. S. NEARY: PREMIER PECKFORD: MR.

SPEAKER (Sim~sl ?RE~!ER PECKFORD: (Inaudible) - a high ?rofile one - Order, ~lease! - and other like agreements, the transportation agreement, that have to be. MR. S. ~TEARY: PREM!ER'PECKFORD: around th~ Province that - M=t. S. NEARY: PREMIER ?ECKFORD: that could be. ~R. SPEAXER (Simms) :1::t. F. WHITE: Outer Ring road, S35 ~illion. Oh, there are many, many :-cads Are you (inaudible) - would have ~a be Cone be:o=e The ~on~ member for Lewis~orce. ~r. Speaker, my qu~s:ion is fer t~e hon. the ~iniste~ of Justice (Mr.

Ottenheime~) a~C i~ relates to the political ~oll that was paid fer by th~ Fr0- vincial government, the $56,000 poll. I wonde~ i: ~h~ ~i~is~~r would undertake to table that docu~ent in the House so ~hat the ~embers could have a look at it? ~R. S. NEARY: They tabled it in O~tari~. ~R . SPE.'I.!<!::R : The hon. the ~inisc~~ of Justice. ~1'!t. OTTENF.EVIE?.: ~r. Speaker, I would imagi~e ~hat that ~ould be available to the Public Accounts Com~ittee. I am not sure - 901

~!arch 13, 1980 Tape No. 347 EL - 2 MR. S. NEARY: (Inaudible) MR. OTTENHEIMER: If the hon. gentleman will allow me, even if he will not allow me, I will finish answering the question in my own manner. The hon. gentleman for Lewisporte (Mr. F. White) does not mind me finishing it. MR. F. WHITE: (Inaudible) i~R. SPEAKER (Simms) Order, please! Order, please! The hon. minister has been asked a question and I think he should be entitled to answer it. MR. ST.ZI.GG: Name him, Mr. Speaker. MR. OTTENHEIMER: Who, the minister? Mr. Speaker , there is absolutely no problem in the document being tabled.

I would certainly assume that the Public Accounts Committee will be asking for it and that is a committee of the House and, as far as I am aware, it can certainly be tabled in the House as well. There is no problem with ~hat. I will unde::- take to have it tabled. Strictly speaking, it really does not - you know, I do not know why it is me more than anybody else, but ~ will table it. MR.F. WHITE: ~ supplementary, Mr. Spea~er. MR. SP EAl<EF.: A supplementary, the hon. membe~ for Le·11siporte. MR. F . ~IE IT E: Mr. Spea~er 1 jus~ as a

preamble to the supplementary I would say to the minister that the poll obviously would become public next week at the ?ublic Accoun~s Committee and I thought that the House should ~ndertake to have it tabled first, before it becomes pu~lic. SOME HON. MEMBE~S: Hear, hea~! 902

c.:arch 13, 1900 :·L'<. SPEAKER (Simms) : ~R. G. OTTENHEIMER: Tas:>e :~o. 34 7 EL - 3 The hen. the Minister of Justice. There is certainly no preble~ in tabling it in the House and I 'NQuld point out, of course, that tabled in the House, obviously it does become public,and tabled in the Public Accounts Committee that 1naturally 1is the prerogative of the Committee although most material, as far as I am aware, which has been tabled and discussed in ~~e Public Accounts Committee is public as well.

As far as I know, the only in camera meetings they have are those which decide on procedural matters or going through the draft of their report before it is completed, that kind of thine. So, cer­ tainly, you know there is no preble~ there. ~~- SPEAKER (Simms) The hen. the Merr~er for Torngat ~!ounteins. ~lR . G. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to ~he ~inister of ?.ural, .>.c;ricultural and Northern Develc<:)ment(J. Goucie).

In li:;ht of 'the latest news release stating that six veterinarians employee by the Provincial Gcvern~ent have resic;ned their ?Ositions effecti•1e .ll.l?:::il 9, would the minister enlighcen t~e House any further en why ~hey =esiqneri? ~~E~..i<ER {Sirn_,!~) The hon. ~he ~inister of Rural. ~.qrict:l tural and Northern oe·re lopmen t.. ~i?.. .; . GOUDIE: ~r. Soeaker, ~eceived : letter f~orn five vet.erinaria~.s. no1:. from s1.x 1f,,,;hc ha,,e ir.dicatea - t~e C.ate of the letter, by t!"le way, was th~ tenth cf ~"arch a They have indicat.eC that unless certain things tak2 place '..tit.hin t~irty Cays, ':her!

I azr to consider ~~eir letter as a lette~ of resisnQtion~ 903

~!arch 13, 1980 Tape No. 348 iJt-7 - 1 :·!R. SPEA>::ER (Simms): A SUP?lernenta~y, the han~ member for Tornqat ~ountains. ~·!R. G. WARREN : Mr. Speaker, could t~e minister enlighten the eouse further on what some of thinas were thev would like to see take place between now and April 9th.? ~R. SPEAKFR: ~R. J. GOUDIE: The han. minister4 Yes, ~r. S?eaker, in the lette~ there were two particular iss~es identi~ied~ number oner the hours of work that the veterinarians in the Province have been going through in the last year,and in some cases more than a year, and the amount of remuneration they received for that.

So one is a monetary issue. The other one =ela~es to a sus9ension of one of the six veterinarians w~ich occur=ad last '/leek. ~1R. G. V'JP..RRE~!: A final sup~leme~~ary, ~r. Spea~e~. ~·1?.... SPEA.K::R: ~ final su?~lemen~ary. ~he hon. member fa:: Tor'!lqa= _'!ountains. :-tR. WAR.RE~J: ~1r. Speaker, in vie·" of those r~si~na~ions 1 ~as the deoa=t~en: ~ooked a~ any clans to ~ave new veterina~ians recruited or advertisin~ fo~ ve~erina=ia~s in case a =esig~ation does t2k~ ?lace on Avr~~ 9 t~~.? ~-rR. sp£,.;.:-c::-:~: ~he han. ~!i::~st~= o-: ::".:J.r.;.l, Aqricul~ura! a~d ~To=ther~ ~evelo~~e~t. ~~1::..

J. ::;o~..;n•=-: ~~ :- . speak e = . :::: :n ·= ~ ',l i :. :-. ~ ~ = s ~ veterinarians abou~ three week~ aao to discuss ~hair ~~c~le~. As a rna~ter of fact, I was so concerned about thei:- ~=o~~~~ I i~7ite~ the~ fro~ t~:air various areas cf ~~~~o~sibilit~· and discussed the mon~ta:-v consideration wi~~ t~e~. -~~~- that ~articular mee~i~9 there had been no s~spe~sian of o~e of ~he six veterinarians. However, t~e orocess ~~ac' ~ut in place after tha~ i~i~ial meetina three weeks aqo T t~i~k is croincr ~o resolve ~he mcnet2=? consideration oric= to t~e 904

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~ar::::h 13, l98C1 '~'ace 'To. 34a >TM - 1 .'lS. VERGE: In addition to that coromittee there have recently been established a couple of other committees under QPIC to look at education and trainino. And I just came from a meetinq in Ste?henville of representatives of the Education Departwent which adminis~ers the vocational school system and the three colleges, looking at specifically better co-ordination and better preparation to train and educate people to share in jobs generated throuoh offshore exploration and development. SOME RON. :-lEMBERS : MR. !!ODDER: 'lR. SPEAKER: (Simms) MR. HODDER: Rear, hear! ~r4 Speaker, a supplernen~ary. ~he han. member for oort au 0 ort. ~- Speaker, as a

preamble, I aM ouite aware that we have committees being set up everywhere i~ t~e education field; however, it is a great ~av to puc thincrs on the back ~~rner to have committees who meet and talk and mee~ 3nd calk4 ~v cuestion ~o the minister is what soecifi~ monetarv proposals has t~is crove~nment made to ()ttawa to cret finances to pav for trainincr oraara~es and t,.,hat has been =he response, i£ indeed there ·1dvebee~ a~v fina~ces asked :or? Y'R. SPE.~?CE?: '!'he han. \l!iP.ister of Fducation. ~!S. VERGE: ~r.

Spe.sk':::-, there are a.lreadv in olace seve~al :curses at the Collecre ~f Fisheries and one ~r t~~ at :h~ ~o:leqe of T~ades and Technolocry ~re?ar.:.:1c oecpl.e for offshore !""elated ~obs and some of these are :unded t:hroucrh l:he fede~al ·:rove~:l.tT'e!1"t:. r ::a.r. provide spec~fics of these courses, ~hich are now in olac~, tc~or~ow. Y'.R. :fr>DDE?.: A sucple~e~tary, ~r. Speak~r. ~!R. S?EAKE?: P.. fi.nal s:.Jpplementar·,, tbe ~on. member fa!:' "Cart -3.1,1 oa!'"t. 'lP. :lC'DDER: '-'lr.

Soeaker, since it is ~Ot..r Ollblic k:1owledae t~at the C";overnment of \lava .scotia is negotiatirrc tAfith ~he Federal Denartment of Reaional and Economic ~xoansio~ for a >38 :nillion subsidiar; acrreeme!lt for researc!'l and develoccnent air'led 906

~!arch 13, l,98C '!'ape ~o. 349 ~-~~~ - 2 'L~. HODDER: at education, has chis g~vernment ~en &,y steps along t~ose lines? MR. S?~'<El'< (Simms) : The hon . Minister of Scucation. $ VERGE: ~!r .

Speaker, this 90'7e'r!!ment has been neqo~iacing wi~h t~e EeCe:al goverr.menc for several years for funding c~ouqh DRE~ :or new Eacilities :o~ the ~is~~ ries Colle;e as pa:t of our ?Olytech.:'lical insti::ute and top priority is continuing to oe assigned to the neec for new facilit ies and new programmes at the ?isheries College which includes programmes :or job trai:tinq for offshor~ o il and gas exploration, development anc spinof£s. MR. :Lic:?IT : Could ! ask a supp lementa r y on t~at, :ir. Sp e~_ker? XR.

S?~A-'<ER: A s upple .m-enta !:y, t.he :ton . member for Y1indsor -aucha.··!.s. ~8 . : LIG:·i'!': ! would like '::o ask :he :n.:.:Ll.ster, )1.r. Spea..~er, how s~e feels about :.!'le fact that a!;y yo..::tq- 'lew-=ound:ar~de~ =-~c;!tc :tow who ':-h.L~\cs aboui: ~N.anc..::.ng t:O gee LivoiveC i :t cf=sho _r-; . -:hac ~:-te only =ourse-S avai:able i~ ':his P'::'ov~"'lce, .,.,he:1 one: looks -.a t t.h.e ?t:Oiif!!ra ·t:i.on oi vocat:i.onal schools all a~u~C ~e·.·.rfounC.lar.C , i s i:: st. Jor.n' s ?ot·~:- ~ngi:leo:r : .. tla ; for :.r.so nce 1 :i l\t!Ch ~ec:cieC :o:.:rse. ~wency sea--:s : n ~~- .John's.

The ?nly ;va..lla..~ le s eats c~at ar.y ~,.oun~ ~ter,.tf.ou:ldlan·de~ c.an ~ec ~ o or t:he only courses ~e '=Z.:l :3~~ mu-s; ~e .!.n st . John'.; . *r"~ey ocsc =~me :r~m a!..! ove = ~e-~·fo:.:nC !ar.ci St . :or.n ' s . ::o·N dce. s ~he :n.:..nistec :~.gl abou~ ~hat :;ct o f 1::e? 907

.. !1arch 13,1980 Tape No. 350 AH-1 MR.SPEAKER (Simms) The hoa. Minister of Education. MS VERGE: That is the phenomenon that is being evaluated now.However 1 there are many openings in the vocational schools which are throughout the Province, the sixteen schools throughout the Province, in basic trades courses and there are several courses which are beyond the one year trades level at the Bay St. George Community College in Stephenville. This very question is under active consideration including at the meeting in Stephenville that I just came from. MR. HISCOCK: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary. l1R.

SPEAKER: The hon. member for Eagle River. MR. HISCOCK: To the Minister cf Education (Ms. Verge) With regard to the gran~ given to students in this Province instead of the Manpower grant being cwenty- five dollars a ~eek 1particularly if you have to come from areas outsid-e of St. John's and :.iving in St .. John's and the price of rent going up, does the ~inister of Education (11s.Verge) and the Minister of !1an,oower (M r.

Ginn) have any plans to increase this grant in the f~~ure? :.!R. 5?~ri.!<.E9-: The ~inist~~ of Edacation. l1S 'lERGE: M~.Speaker, I cannot say that there are any ?lans to increase the ;ran~· ~~at ia one ~tem that i3 be~ng looked at now as government prepar2s the tot~l budget for next year. MR.ilni:'E: M~4 Speake!". :1R. SPEAKER: The ho~. member ior Lewisporte. :-!R. lvHITE: :1r. Speaker, I have a question tor the M.inister of Tourism (:1r.

Dawe). ~s tte minister is no doubt aware, the former minister was articulating a ?Olicy of privati~ation of provincial parks and he was expressing he view ~ha~ provincial parks, some or all of them,would eventually be turned over to private developers. I am wondering 908

:1a:-ch 13,1380 Tape ~o. 350 AH-2 ::?.. ~ ~·1!:! T ~ : ~= ~he ~aw ~iniste :- propos~s ~o =~!low cha~ same k~r.d o= pol~cy? MR.S?S~XER ( S~mcs} a::c Culture. ~-tR. o;..;-sc:: a:-e now :ompiling some ~on. Minis ~er ot Tou~1sm, Rec:eacion ~r. Speaker, members o= my scaf: scatisti:s and information as it rela~e s co the provincial parks, as it :-elaces to policies chat we have now with :-egards ~o pr~vace parks, as it relates co s~cua~ions chat are occuring around ~he grovince w:th ca~pe:-s and peop le parking in gravel pits and so.

Once aLl the information has oeen ~ade available and assessed,I will be making a :ull scacemen~ as :o :he ~irecc1on tha: the depar~manc w1ll be cak~ng i:l ::::.a : rec;a.:ci. ~·1:?.. \~ ~: T~: a St:.?;;le::ter:~a~y. :.;R . S?7::AXSR: A s::.;>?l!!me~ta:-y 1 che hon. :ne~be:- :o: ~~·..tl.3po:-cg. :-l;..:.rE-":'::: !-1~.

Speak~r 1 :_Oe ~~is~~r C~ci :10: ~ea l:y ans~e~ ~y q~es:Lo~. ~hac i ~oulci :~ke ~o k~ow 1s ~! e~e gbvg~~~enc ~roposes :o move w::~~~ t~e ~exc ~ew ~eeks ~r oo~chs i3 te~2s of tur~i~c ~v~~ exis~~~~ ?rov~nc ~a l pa=ks ~~ ?r~~ace ~:1~2~';)~lS~ a~c whac~a: ~~ie cocld come befo=e ~he 9a:~s open !~.a:!? (-i:t. 2?:::\K ER : The ho~. ~iniscer o: Tou~~s~~ :-:~. ;,;..:-t~: We w:~: noc ~e maki~; a ~ec:sL o n ~~~~1 ~~e =~3~1~~ h~~e ~ome ~ae< !:?~ t~e i~:or~a~ic~ ~ha: ! ~c~:l~neci ?rev~ous!y.

Unc1l :ha: !n~o~ma~io~ :3 =~llected ada~~ace:y, =~wpil~Q ~Ceq~a:e:y a~d l have ~ =~a~:e c~ ass~$S :~, ~c ~~2: ~i~e ~e ~ill =ak~ a dec~s1o~. ~X.:i:!:":'~: ~ S~??l~~en~~ry, ~~ . S?~ake~ . :·!~. S? Z.;l<E R: A :1.:1al S!.l.?p:e::lenca:y, ::1e hon. ze~be= :o: ~a~is?o:t~. :-:~ . :-:E.:!'E:: M'!". S?e:!.<e~, ::ha mi!lis::.e: :a3.Ce r~::ce~ ce ~o ope~ 4:eas :r. :n~ ?=ov~~ce s~c~ ~3 ;=a7~l p~~s ~~C 909

!-larch 13,1980 Tape No. 350 AH-3 ~IR.WHITE: so on I am wondering whether or not the government ?roposed ~o bring in regulations this year concerning the use of those areas? 910

March 13, 1980 MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : ~. R. DAWE: Tape 351 EC - l The hon. the ~~nister of Tourism. A decision in that particular area will again be made after the complete report has been received by the department. MR. SPEAKER: !o!R. L. THOMS: The hon. the member for Grand Bank. Mr. Speaker, I have a question I would like to direct to the Minister of Justice.

A few days we saw a Judge of the Supreme Court, Trial Division, of this Province being placed in ~~e most embarrassing but necessary position of having to apologize to the public of ~~is City and this Province because of the conditions of the court facilities here in St. John's. Could the minister confirm that ~~e facilities are, in fact, as bad as I be1ieve they are, and also what this government plans to do about court facilities in St.John's? lo!R. SPEAKER: MR. G. O'l"I'ENHEL'iER: The hen. the Minister of Justice. Mr.

Speaker, I would nee really be able to confirm whe~~er they are as bad or as good as the hen. gentleman believes they are, because that would be a very subjective exercise. No doubt, court facilities in St. John's and in other parts of the Province are in need of improvement and ~~ere are many areas within the terms of facilities for which ~~e Department of Justice is responsible in need of improvement, as there are schools and other facilities as well. I will certainly agree ~~at there are courtrooms in need of improvement, ~,d we will do all we can in that direction with the funds available.

I may noc be very specific, buc I do not really know whether I can be more specific than that. ~. S?EJI.iCER: A new question, the hen. the member for Windsor - Buchans. ~-- G. FLIGHT: Mr. Speaker, t~s question really could be termed as a supplementary to the one asked by the hen. the member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary) a little earlier. I would like to ask ~~e Premier, wi~~ regard to what appears to be price fixing by the oil companies when ~~ey do indeed raise their prices wi~~in a day of each other, I wonder would ~~e Premier undertake to look into ~~e questions raised by the member 911

Marc..'l 13, 1980 Tape 351 EC - 2 MR. G. FLIGHT: for LaPoile (Mr. Neary)?· Would he undertake also to look into the fact that when these increases oc~ur they are applied to the oil already in storage? The major oil companies have storage all around the Province with millions of gallons of oil on which price increases have already been made, and with a new increase, the increase applies to the oil in storage, maybe millions of gallons, resulting in windfall profits by those oil companies. Xr. Speaker, I ask that question as a result of having worked for major oil companies and I know what I am talking about. MR.

S • NEARY : liear, hear! MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECXFORD : Mr. Speaker, I do not doubt that the hon. the member for Windsor - Buchans (Mr. G. Flight) has a fair amount of expertisa and knowledge and experience in the whole question of price f~xing as it relates to oil and gas products in ~'lis Province. I do not think anybody on ~'lis side of the House or on the other side of ~~e liouse, yea, anybody in Newfoundland, would ever question the ability of the hon. - MR. G. FLIGHT: Answer the question.

PREMIER PEc:FORD: - ~'le member for Windsor - Buchans to have that kind of information to his fingertips. And we will, in our ongoing study ~~at I have already 91 2

11arch 13, 1980 Tape No. 352 NM - 1 P~MIER PSCKFORD: indicated we would do, consult with the hon. member for windsor­ Buchans (Mr. Flight) to ensure that the information necessary to make a value judgement on the question of oil already in storage when the price increase occurs is ascertained so that when we make our decision it will be based on the best expert advice available. ~~- FLIGHT: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPSAl<ER (Simms) : A supplementary, the han. :nember for Windso~-Buchans . MR.

FLIGH'!': In view of the Premier' s anS<~er I would like to ask him if he knows who to talk to to get the information he is telling me that he will ~ive the House? MR. SPSAKER: P~EMIER ?ECKFOPD: MR. SPEAKE?,: Y!R. JA!UESON: The hon. Premier. Yes, Mr. Speaker~ The han. the Leader of the Opposition. ~- Speaker, can I get this thing down to earth literally and figuratively by asking a question of the ~hnister of M~nicipal Affairs?

During the Autumn session we had a~·exchancre. he and I and I believe some othe::- meMbers, ~ith regard to the ultimate disposal of a number of unused building lots around the Province,and the m~nister was explaining the complexity of the matter and said ~hat further stud~es ~ere going to be undertak~n. I, of =ourse, hav~ ?Crticularly ~n mind 3unLyside, ~ut I know t~at there a~e some otters in =he same =ategory. nas anv progress be~n ~ade with regard to chis?

As I unde~s;:anC. it, and perhaps the minister ·::an -::onfirn'l it, t~e lots are actually getting to be more expensi•re hv the daj• !:'lecause of interest ~atas and the like and yet the demand for them is such that the prices are not going to be realizable? )'!R. SPEA.'<ER: The hon. :·1inis"te~ 0f .\1unici.pal ~ffai=s and H0using. 91 3

~laich 13, 198 0 Tape No. 352 NM - 2 ~. t~DroSOR: '!es, ~lr. Speaker, thls is an issue ""hic!l we have be~~ looking at ~ery closely ove= t~e la~t ~umber of months, as che hon . gentle~an well knows . .:IN RON. :1£.'1SE:R: '!R. 1\'INOSOR : '!ears . Perhaps.

A number of areas, as ~e sai1 1 a number of areas are ac~ually starting to sell, believe it or no~ , some areas ar ou .nd the Province. !le•.rertheless , the in terest is still acldin~ on :o the ?rice o£ lees in ocher areas suc h as Sunnyside , which are not being solei. ! can:lct give che hon . ge ntleman a de!initive answer ac che ~ment . ~she is .I am sure,wel l aware~ !~ is a :ai: ly major Cudqetary decision Lhat we are ~ow looki~g at in the bucigec.a r-f process and ~pe:ally he will be a lit tle more enlightened in a :ew weeks :ime ~h en ~y colleague bri:1gs do~ his budoe :. '!R.

S?~R: '"'here is ju s~ !lave ti.'!le :o r a :i:tal :-r:.e: qu_escion. ~~ - Jt-.MIESON: '!es, a ve~ = ~ ief sa p.pl eme nta.:-"' 1, ~ r. Speaker. Die t unclerstand the ~inis ~ e r co rr:cc: v chat it ls ?Ossib!.e c.ha:. i.e w!ll be invo!'Jed in :he budce t, or will i: !;e aC.jacent. ~o o:- sl.mply wnen ::he ~ove:-nrnen;: :inal: ~ .. .:e~s ;:he budcecar·l figure s ~oqet.her : i!ill ic be ~ sepante a:1nouncgme.r.t:? !s :.hat the exoeccation i: so m ethL~c is coino ~o oe done? ~ffi . S?£AKE;t' ~!R . i7niD5')R: The hon. 'linister of :-!l.:.nici;:>al ,>,f!"i1irs. ~~ . S~eake r .ic is C ~f~ c~= :o say .

Yes, ! thi:v- it >~auld be a. sepa ra~ e ;uu:ounc e:ne nt bu:: obviouslv anv .a.nn ounce::e:1:: :~t o;:oulci be mad e '<IOuld ~ based on ::'!-;e budge!: 3.."1d >rould oe reElected :hereL~. so both >~au:c ~ a~urate . ~!_q_ . .5?EAKER: o ree~, ?lease! ~~e ~~~ :or ~ ~ al ~es::ons has ex?ired. ! am sure ~on. ~ezbers 'NOuld like :o :oi~ ~e in ~elco~ing co ::::te galler-1 tocay '(ayor aoyd 'ioel . Council:or :'linst:on J'ohnst:on , rown l'!an ager 'iles Biles, :rom ::he ::own of St . A.:'\thonv. SO!-«' !iON. ~~ERS: ~ear, :tear! 91 4

~larch 13, 1980 Tape ~o. 352 ~M - 3 ?!U::SE~TDIG :U:?ORTS 3Y STANDING ~NO S?EC!At. CO~!!UT":'EES: :-!R. S?::A.'<ER (Sicuns) : The hon. Minister of :~~ce. OR. COLLI!'IS: ~. Speaker, pursuan~ co t~e relevanc aces ! have pleasure i~ cablinq t~e !'lew!ounaland Licuor C¢rporacion Annual Report, 1979, and t!:le :-tew !oundland t.i'!UOr r.icenci."lg Annual Report for t~e same year . ?RE~U:R ?!::Cl<FORD: DR. COLLI~ IS: ~!::-. Speaker. - wi:!.l c!ri:'tk co that . A 'le':"f popular tabling ! would say, 915

March 13, 1980 MR. SPEAKER (Simms): Placentia west. MR. D. HOLLETT: Tape No. 353 so - 1 PRESENTING PETITIONS The hon. member for Burin - Mr. Speaker, it is with pleasure that I rise to present a petition from the ninety-one voters of the Town of Rock Harl:lo~ in Placentia Bay. The prayer of ~~e petition is as follows, "We, the undersigned residents of Rock Harbour, do hereby petition the provincial government to pave the road from Spanish Room to Rock Harbour." SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear. MR. D. HOLLE'rl': "Because of both terrain and elevation this

section of road is very hazardous during the Winter months, causing great inconvenience to all, to all the school children who have to be bused, workers and other residents. We are confident that Mr. Lloyd Banfield, Sbperintendent of the Department of Transportation and Communications at Salt Pond, •,puld agree that this is the most troubesome short

section of gravel highway in his whole district." Mr. Speaker, in connection with this petition and with your indulgence I would like to point out that Rock Harbour is a coastal community on the Eastern entrance of Mortier Say and was a fishing community but now in reality is a dormitory town for the Mortier Bay area and the residents there now ~~rk in the shipyard, in the fish plant, they have to come over this very short

section of road for all educational and recreational and medical services and it is a stretch which is less than two miles. And why I say it is particularly troublesome in the Winter months is because of the large mountain they have to go over to get down in their community and with the gravel road and so close to the seashore and the frost every mild day comes up and just builds up ice on ice. 916

~ch 13, 1980 Tape No. 353 so - 2 MR. 0. HOLLE'rl': There have been hundreds and fll hundreds of school days lost and man work days lost and several near traqedies there. So , Mr. Speaker, with those few brief remarks I ask that tlU.s petition be laid on the Table of the Rouse and refened to the department to which it is rela~d. Thank . you. SOI!IE BON. MEMBEl!S : Hear, hear. MR. SPEJUa:R: (Si.)Ds) The hon. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. D. Jl!a:ESON: Mr. Speaker, having represented federa1ly that part of the Burin Peninsula for many years, I have much pl~e in supportin9' the prayer of this petition.

I know that sectieln of road very, very well and everything that the non. member for Burin - Placentia West (Mr. 0. Hollett) has said about it is corract. It is only a comparative short stretch, les::; than two llliles and because for all of the reasons the member bas oatlined I think it would be not only, by the way 1 an accommodation to the people and eliminate a hazard to do it 1but l: suspect ' that over a matter of two or three ye-ars the thing would probably pay flilr itself in the sense of the amount of added maintenance and ·the like that has to be carried on while it is in its present conditions.

So I have much pleasure in suppOrting the petition. 917

March 13, 1980 Tape No. 353 SD - 3 ORDERS OF THE DAY MR. SPEAKER (Simns) : SOME RON. MEMBER: Order 1, Address in Reply. The hon. member for Naslcaupi. Hear, hear. MR. J. GOUDIE: Mr. Speaker, the first thing I think I would like to do in my few remarks is to offer my ccnqratulations, along wi~~ similar sentiments expressed by many members of the House on both sides, to the mover of the motion 1 the hon. member for Harbour Main - Bell Island (Mr. N. Doyle) and to the seconder, the gentleman from Fortune - Hermitage (Mr. D. Stewart).

I remember in 1975, I guess the Fall, having had the same honour that the gentleman from Harbour Main - Bell Island had and I think he did it with much more confidence and much more conviction then I did in 1975. I want to keep my remarks today, Mr.

Speaker, basically addressed to a particular publication which I released officia11y,shall we say,at the Labrador in the Eighty's Conference which was held in Northwest River the latter part of last week and last weekend and I would ask the Pages when they get the time after these documents they have now circulated , if they would - I am not going to table this particular one, but I will when I am finished - but the other ones perhaps can be distributed to hon. members so that they can have a look at the document as well.

It is a progress report on the implementation of the recommendations of the Royal Commission on Labrador. It gives a rundown,rec:ommendation by recommendation, what the recommendations are that came out of that Royal Commission in the early 1970's and it give an indication of the action taken by the provincial government s 1 8

March 13, 1980 Tape 354 EC - l MR. J. GOUDIE: in matters that relat~ to the government in the Province. It also deals from a federal government level with some action which bas been taken by the federal government and also by other agencies identified in this Royal Commission Report. The status report was prepared as an internal document by the Planning and Priorities Secretariat of Executive Council in June, 1978.

At that time, of the 287 recommendations, the Province had taken action on li9, non-government agencies and/or the federal government had acted on 26, and 31 of ~~ recommendations had not required any action at all. Only 41 - or 18 per cent - had not been implemented because they were not feasible, were contrary to government policy or were too costly for existing financial resources.

There have been many statements made, I think, since the Royal Commission presented its report to government, many s~atements made by various ~eMbers of the public about the lack of attention beinq paid to the recommendations contained in that particular report, the lack of aceion on the part of federal government, provincial government and o~~er agencies. But I think when hon. members go through this particular document, ~~ey will see ~~at many of the recommendations have been met in a very real wav, not only by ~e provincial government, but by the other groups concerned as well.

I ~~ir~ also when they ?eruse this particular dccurnent that they will see that some of the action taken would fall into almost a 'gray area: if I may use ~~at term, and perhaps the hon. the ~mber for Eagle River (Mr. E. Hiscock) and the hon. the member for Torngat Mountains (Mr. G. warren) would want to peruse ~~is report themselves to see how they react to it and to the action taken. 9ut I did want to give an indication that action has been taken in a very real way on many of the recommendations that were made by that Royal Commission.

I ~~nk perhaps what I could do is just select a few of the recommendations and give an indication of the way in whicn they have been dealt wi~~. 919

March 13 1 1980 Tape 354 EC - 2 MR. J.

GOUDIE : Number 159, for instance, 'The Commission recommends that the Province through the Department of Rural Development initiate commercial utilization of the forest potential of ~~e K~pokok area, based initially on supplying lumber, power poles and wharf timber for development in Northern Labrador.' This issue relates particularly to the Department of Lands and Forests , as it is now called, and I understand that they are mere than willing to co-operate with any efforts ~~at people may want to put into place there. 'The Department of Rural Development encourage local sawmill operators to expand their activities in various areas. ' And that is-, I think, one of the most successful programmes, although it has only been in existence for a couple of years , that my department has been involved in in terms of the assistance provided to sawmill operators, and the payments made in return by the various operators in the Province has been the special Sawmill Assistance Programme.

We have also assisted sawmill operators and owners in the Province in a very real way in terms of providing capital funding, or at least partial capital funding in some cases, as well. So we have taken action in ~~at particular field.

Let us have a look. at something else. 'The Commission recommends that ~~e Province ta~e ~~e initiative in establishing a Planning and Advisory Committee for the purpos~of creating an exploratory and development programme for the Labrador fishery ~,d facilitating liaison between different agencies and fishermen and of advising on jurisdictional responsibilities.' We point out in the response to that partic~ar recommendation ~,d to other recommendations earlier on in the report, that a group known as the Labrador Resources Advisory Council, the LRAC, was established in January, 1976.

They receive funding from the provincial government through my department and are playing a very key role in advising government and other groups about how the people of Labrador feel about the way resource development is either going or not going in the Northern part of our Province. I think the Premier might be able to 820

March l3, 1980 Tape 354 EC - l MR. J. GO UDI E: confirm this, when he was invol.ved in developing- t:he offshore oil and c;as requlations 1 I bel.ieve they are called, the LRAC pl.ayed a very key role in some of the regulations which ver .e almost printed word for word., 1 think, in some ca$es. So we consider t:hat support t:hat we offer to this qroup in ~rador to be money well spent and to be al.so an expression of very teal concern on the part of the p:r:cvincia.l govet1llnerit towards the a.spirations , the c»ncer:lS Olnd the fears in some cases of the residents of Labrador.

I realize that hon. members in some cases may take exception to some of the thinqs , that LRAC might state publicly or same of the actions they take. MR. G. WARREN: Do you mean me? 8 2 1

1-!arch 13, 1980 Tape No. 355 Dl'l - 1 o!R. J. GOUDIE; No, I was not suggestinq that the hon. member for Torngat :1ountai::1s (:rr. :·'larren) fell within t;:at sategory~ But I was just xecalling that a few days ago when I spoke on,I think it was the hon. member's resolution a week ago yesterday 1 that one gentleman from Grand .Bank, ! think, was upset about something that had haopened during the sitting of the Flag Committee involving the LRAC so obviously not everyone feels as positively about LRAC as I do and some other hon. members of the House do.

But in any event,each hon. member - the re~orts have been passed out - each han. member will have an opportunity to go through this progress report on the implementation of the recommendations of the ?-oyal Commission on Labrador,can evaluate it =or t~eir own ?Ur9oses and obviously make pertinent comments based on this docuMent that has been tabled today.

Some of the remai~inq, 5orty-one, I think, recommendacions we identified which have not b~en implemented are in some cases very cosi:ly to ±:r~plement a!:d some of them relate to the agreements referr~C to duri~g Question P~riod today b7 the hon. the ?re:i~r i~ r2s~o~J2 ~~ a. question fr-om t~e Leader of the 'J?position CI!:'. Jamieson) One of t~e~, for instance, would interest the member for Eagle River (~r.

Hiscock),and ?robably other ~embers of the House,and it deals with the U?crrading and/or 9avinq of the £ifty ~ile stretch of road to the Strait of 2ell= Isle. a ?reject which is - the road itself is sadly in need oE some very large amounts of money for repai= work to ~e carried au~ on ~~3t particular stretch of road and something which is badly, I think. So the some of the recommendations of t~e Royal Commission fall within that category and many of them 922

:-!arch 13, 1980 Tape No. 355 D~J - 2 MR. J. GOUDIE: are being dealt with riqht now, they have not been resolved yet. So it is an ongoing ~recess on the part of the Provincial Government. I just wanted to dra.w that to hen. 1!11!1mbers' attention today. Also I guess, to offer a couple of more remarks, Mr.

Speaker, on the Addres~ in Reply, it is a opportunity for members of the House to have a few com- ments on their districts, some of the problems that exist there and some of the hopes and aspirationsthey might have for their respective districts, I have pointed out before and I guess it would not hurt to point it out again that the district of Naskaupi, particularly the Eastern end of that district,aappy Valley -Goose Bay- :=orthwest River - ~ud Lake,has probably been harder hit in terms of economics in t~e last four or five years than most districts in ~hs Provi~ce, I think~ I ~ay be a little biased in this, to go through it again we have lost the prese~ce of the America~ forces in Labrador. ~he~~ are ten ~me~ican forces personnel lo: Goose Bay; t~e Gull Isla~~ ?ower Develop- ment unfortunately did not go ahead when it ~as s~p?OS~~ to go ahead 1an~ I am sur~ a lot o~ ~on. membe~s ~avg va=yinq ooinions to offer on that. ~he Lab~ado= Line~~~a=d ~~~~ was closed down which cu~ out 655 jobs di~ec~ly a~d as a res ultt since I "JiaS elec":ed in 1-375 1 ~"~·e !".a•Je lost :tr-~u~ hal: of t~e ?opula:ion of t~e Eap~y Valley - Goose 3~y a~ea.

T~e only other community in my distric~, the comm~nity of Churchill Falls 1 is well off in terms of stable emolcy- ment anC other benefi~5- Ic is a company town 1 or a~ l~ast ide~tified as a com9any town although there are sam~ p~oblews there. ~ne of the posi~ive t~ings that has haopened c~~~ a , I t~ink~ in t~e last couple of years is that a C~:iz~n~s Advisory earnmittee has been ~lectad from the conmu~ity, net a?90i~ted by th~ com~any but elected by t~e members of ~he comrn~~i.ty to advise the compa~y on some pr~ble~s ~hev hav9 923

:-!arch 13, l9S0 Tal?e ~o. 355 ov: - 3 :·lR. J . GOUDIE: and to wor k =owards some ~utual solutions . So economics is a prima r y conce=n and the whole future based on economics of the largest ;:>art of my dist:-ict is a very serious and real ~oncern at t~ i s point in time. And ! ~hink, gust one closing comment before I take my seat,is that t~e:-e ~as been dis­ c::ssion during this T!1=one Speech debate a.nd on other occasions about the need for control of one's reso u rces and ownership oi one's resou~ces. And I 9uess perha ps one o~ the glaring examp~es again w!1ich has been pointed out so many ti~es before,hot perhaps we should remind ourselves abqut i t: ,is th-e 924

March 13, 1980, Tape 356, Page 1 -- apb MR. GOUDIE: development of Churchill Falls itself and the lack of real ownership, or real control that this Province had over that particular project, and I think we are all aware of the situation that has developed as a result of not having full control and full ownership of one's very real resource in this Province. I do not think that we should be allowed to make that mistake again and I commend the Premier, obviously, for his stand on the offshore oil and gas potential and the stand he has taken in relation to its ownership, and I fully support him on it.

I just wanted to offer these few remarks during this opportunity for debate on the Throne Speech, and to - ~R. BRETT: You have a while longer yet. MR. GOUDIE: Oh! I am told that I have a few more minutes to speak so let us see what we can do with it. ~. NEARY: You will not have anything to say (inaudible). MR. GOUDIE: Well, perhaps I could offer a comment on the conference, Labrador in the '80s, which was held in North West ~iver the latter part of - MR. NEARY: Talk about the land freeze (inaudible) MR. GOUDIE: The land freeze? Okay. MR. NEARY: Is the land freeze going to be lifted?

Is the hon. gentleman going to ease the pressure for land grabbers and speculators? 82.5

March 13, 1980, Tape 356, Page 2 -- apb MR. GOUDIE: The hon. gentleman, Mr. Speaker, is not going to yield to the pressure to lift the land freeze. As I indicated on other occasions, there is a very real concern. It is highlighted, I guess, on the Avalon Peninsula area of the Province right now because of the potential for offshore resources or the development of our offshore resources.

Many farmers on this part of the Province have been asking the question, Is the Province going to remain committed to the agricultural industry, and is the Province going to insist that the land freeze stay on to discourage these speculators?

I have had the occasion to meet with I do not know how many delegations now of farmers, of people involved in the dairy industry, of all aspects of the agricultural industry and in one case, one particular gentleman came into my office with the developer with him, just the two of them and one said, 'Look, if I sell my land to a farmer I may get $700 or $800 per acre for the thirty or forty acres that I have here.

However, this gentleman here sitting next to me is a developer and right now, if you say so, right now at this particular minute he will offer me $30,000 an acre for that land.' Well, that is all well and good if the only intent of this whole thing is to make sure that the farmers get a high price for their land. That is not the intent. We have five to six per cent of arable soil in this Province and it is not prime agricultural land, arable soil. Very little of it, as a matter of fact, is considered by national standards to be number one prime land. ~.R. STAGG: All that is on the West coast? 926

March 13, 1980, Tape 356, Page 3 -- apb MR. GOUDIE: A lot of it is on the West Coast, yes. MR. NEARY: When the goverrunent starts to get the pressure from the big moneybags from the mainland, and the land grabbers and speculators, who are in here now, coming down in their jets and so forth, is the government going to cave in and lift the freeze and allow these fellows to go in and buy that land? MR. GOUDIE: No, Mr. Speaker, there is no feeling that I know of anywhere in goverrunent which would allow us to give in to these - I have forgotten the term the han. gentleman used. MR. NEARY: Land grabbers. MR.

GOUDIE: The people with the money. MR.·NEARY: Speculators, @Oney- ·bags from Upper-Canada. MR. GOUDIE: Land grabbers, speculators, whatever you want. Okay. There is no intent. What I was about to say is, that since we have such a small base of our total land in this Province on which to produce crops, then we think, if there is going to be any self-sufficiency in t~is Province at all, then the only way to do it is to retain that land for agricultural purposes and offer assistance programmes to people either in the business now or who want to get into the busi~ess.

MR. ~TEARY: Yes, well, it is good to hear the minister say that, but what happens when the pressure starts to come on and the politicians up in Ottawa and the Senators and his colleagues start to come and the pressure goes on the Premier and the money people come in and start using their influence? 927

March 13, 1980, Tape 356, Page 4 -- apb MR. S?EAKER (Bai~d ) : Order, please~ The hen. m .i~ister has the right to be heard in silence . MR . GOUDIE : I do not mind the questions, ~tr . Speaker, that is fine. ?-tR. NEARY: I appreciate t.'lat. ~tR. GOUDIE: There is no - I will say it again, t.~ere is no intention on the part of government to give in. The pressure is on now. It is not '"'hen it is going to come, it is here right now; it has been he re ever since I have been a minister, eight or nine months ago and ! do not know how long before that. But the pressure is here . We have not give~ in .

There is no intention to ~ive in, certainly not on my part. S0t-1E HON . M&'ffiERS: Hear, hear~ ~. GOUOIE: Our objective in ':erms of government's priori ties for the future , is to encourage ~e agricultural industry to remain alive, to car:-y on , to become a viable operation anc to .allo"'' this P~ovince to become self-s";Jf!icient. Th at is probably an ideal goal. I do not know if we ~ill ever become se li-suf: icient, but ~'tat is 928

March 13, 1980 Tape No. 357 lll.M - 1 MR. GOUDIE: the objective we have from the agricultural department's point of view, and that is the one we intend to stick to regardless of whatever pressures come on. MR. NEARY: A pretty noble thought, I can tell you that now. MR. GOUDIE: Well 1 maybe it is a noble thought but it is an objective with which we are working and I think an objective to which we should continue to work regardless of whar ~inancial pressures come on from either the federal governmen~ or any other developers. MR.

NEA.~Y: In the meantime,we also have to try to provide building lots for young couples who are getting married and want co build a house, want to own a house. We have to look after them. Some kind of a freeze should be put on the cost of real estate and so :orth because it is going sky high right new with these speculators around. ~- GOUDE: ~ell,the cost of real estate, ~tr- Soeaker, falls outside of my responsibilities and someone else - the ~inister of "lunicipal Affairs (Mr. Wfndsor), and perhaps the Lands and Forest Minister (Mr. !1organ) would have some comment to make on that.

MR. >TEAR'!": 'tlel:c 1! ·-Till talk to them about that. MR. GOUDIE: Yes, I refe~red to the five O!."' six pe:=- cen~ of land in this Province which is suitable for agricul tu:!:'al ptlrposes, which leaves ninety-five, ninety-six per cent suitab~e for otre~ develo9ments to take place, not the least of which Nould be housing de~Telopments, industrial develo?ffients and comme~cial developments and so on.

So there is lots of room to grow. ~he only problem we have right now on the Avalon Pensinula area is that t~ere are la~qe oarcels of lands- se"renty acres, thirty acres, twentv acres - Jr•rn.ed by peop:e who are in the aqricultural industry and in Tcany cases who have reached what is recognized today, or refe~red to today as the retirement aqe of 929

~arch 13, 1980 Tape No. 357 NM - 2 MR.

GOUDIE: sixty-five, sixty-five years of age, as the gentleman indicated last night on the television show is a difficult age at which to continue actively farming and doing the heavy work that is involved in the business,and no one else in his family is there to carry on, he needs some kind of a retirement fund, and we in the agricultural department have been addressing that for several months and are now in a position to make certain recommendations, to offer certain alternatives to government collectively and it is something on which we are going to make a decision in the next month or two 1I would think, the objective being to retain that agricultural land, particularly the land which has been cleared and used in the past for agricultural purposes, to retain it either under the preset ownership or offer that owner of the land a real financial package, a package on which he can remain at least comfortable for his remaining ~ears, .and hold that land then within the agricultural zones which are established in some areas, And over the next two years we will have completed our soil analysis programme and land classification programme, the intent beina to hold in perpetuity, for the lack of a better term, land which is suitable for agriculture, keep it there for agricultural purposes. ·.-arking towards in the - ~hat basically is •.v-hat we are ,R. ~lEARY: >lR.

GOUDIE: That is the big weakness i~ the land situation (i~aucti0le) - in the departmenta Yes. But the~e is nc intent,to reassure t:te hen. member for LaPoile (M r. ~ear y },of giving in to ;:>ressure and givinq in to money and letting it all disappear. MR. olEA.'<.Y : ~·!R. GOUDIE: ~R. S?EAKER (Baird) I am all for that. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The han. member for Eaie Verte-\·Jhite Ray. 930

).larch 13, 1980 Tape ~o. 357 NM - 3 SO.'!E 20N. Y"'"!BERS : aea..r, hear! ~- :UDEOt"'': Thank ;rou, ~ . Speaker . : i:s1: of all , Sir, lee. :ne offer illY cong ~atulac.i ons to the hon. !llem!ler for E!arbour :-<.ain -3e1l !sland (Mr. :loyle) ·.rho 1110ved t:he .0\ddress ia Reply, and the member for :ortune -Hermitage (~. Stewa~) in seconein g the !l!Otion. I chink each of c.hem on openi~g day spoke eloquently, Si:, and ..,ith sincerity about issues i:l the ?rovince .me in their districts as they see them .

I also wish to,publicly, alchough I have done so privately, co pass on my ;ongrstJlations :o the newly elecced member for Surgeo-3ay ·:l'Espoir {1-' .r. A:ldrews ), ~ne wish him evecy success in his ef::orts on behaLf of his :::onstituenc.s. ! ·•anc to say t<)O that : :!njoyed che hon. me:nber' s t:tai.de!l ~?ee.!:h ~o ~!us ;l.ssembl y only a few ~.:ys ago. !•.r .

Speakt:r, it has no•.r oeen : ;uess about: a week or a •.reek .u~d a h&:f si."lce the Speec!:l from :he Throne ~s delivered and I have pursued c!us par.:J.cula r s;>eec:t from che "!':trone !ike I have pursued probably no other Speech f:..--cc ::be T:tro::~ deli7e red L"l :!'le five years t!'lat t have bee:-~ here. 931

March l3, 1980 Tape No. 35 8 EL - 1 MR. T. RIDEOUT : I suppose that if I wishe c I could critize it chapcer and verse but I am not prepared to go into that at the moment. I would say, however, though with a number of the principles, the broad general principles of philosophy that are con- tained in the Speech from the Throne, I Tf;ould certainly have sof:'.e diffic:ll ty in critizing those . I speak . today, ~!r. Speaker , as a Canadian and as a ~l ewfoundlander. I want to say from the beginning that: I am proud to be a Canadian.

I can think of no other country that: I would rather be part of than the great Dominion of canada. SOME HDN . MEMBERS : Hear , h ear! MR. T. RIDEOUT: -- --- -- There seems to be some doubt expressed about that in the last n~~er of days in certain speeches in this House and I say it is a privilege, it is certainly a privilege for me :c ~. c -c-~rtc of the canadian family. But, Sir, a family often has its ciisaq~eereen'Cs anC.. rnerr.bers of a family often disagree with the head of thac family. There is nothing new cr unusual about that.

And so I find myself coday, as a ~:ewfoundlander, in disagreement in certain cases, with ?olicy and. politics as represe~tea by cer~ain forces in the Canadian :·ie•.•foundland family. It was only a week or so a9o that our newly elec't.e..:i Prirr=e ~·tinister crreeted us :,y·ith thc.t t'.ow famous quote , "t·.'ell , ·.-rel::olf-: to· the eighties. l' ~.nd it might have been that that stirred my clood.

It might have been that quote that get ~e excited as I watcheC ~1in t:-tat night because I believe as one !t'ernber of this .:>.sserr.l::ly, chat it is absolutely •rital that Newfoundland s te!' i:>to the eighties resolved to control its desciny within Confederacion 1 uct outside cf Confederation. Sm. 1E !iON. :-~USERS : Hear, hear~ :-1P.. T. RIDEOUT : I believe that it is absolutely vital that -:..:e be determined to reverse our economic de~end.C:l(::_J ·='r'. 932

Harch 13, 1980 Tape No. 358 EL - 2 MR. T RIDEOUT: the rest of Canada and I believe it is absolutely vital that we be committed to becoming masters in our own house. SOME . HON • MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. T. RIDEOUT: To me, Mr. Speaker, it is inconceivable,and I':>elieveit would be crin:inal,if the eighties were to pass without our achieving those ends. And that brings me, Mr. Speaker, to the crux of this Throne Speech. Our fishery is vital. We have heard great speeches in this legislature over the years about the fishery.

The hydro developments and potential hydro developments are vital there is no doubt al:out that. But if we are to achieve econorric independance, if we are to become full-fledged merrbers of this Canadian Confederation as I believe we must, if we a:re to prosper and develop as we ourselves wish to, if we are to advance from being hewers of wood and drawers of water, then we have to take our stand now.

Down the road it might be possible to say -none of us have that, you know,hindsight is a great thing, we canna-,: project it no\<•-but down the road it might be possible to say t~at fate h.as been kind to Newfoundland a We have ne"?er been noted for insisting, in my opinion, on maximum benefits for our re- sources,and I do not say that to be critical of past deeds, tut I nope we can learn from past mistakes and I have no doubt that they were mistakes of the ·neart. I am not being critical whatsoever.

The fishery was for years, ~ra Speaker, scorned on in this Province. ~low acrain it has finallv come in to its own and is :::c!r'.ing more and IrOre into its own e~ch year. But we must be careful to ensure that we deri '!e maxie -· benefits from the fishery. Our hydro potential, at leas~ at this 933

!'.arc.r. 13 • 1960 Tape No . 35 8 ~ - 3 Y.R. T. RIDE OI."l': poinc in tae, :tas ?rovi<ied shore- ~rm consuuction JObs and :JOe~ inc else. lie have attracted ineuscries :.o c.'tis !':ovince ehac J.n some cases l:a.ite :r.ore out of t.'1e economy chan c.'ley FU~ back into it. 3uc, ~I . Speaker, ! saJ.c a fe~ ~i:Juce s ago chat face a•ay :,e kind :;o llew!oundlanc! ";)ecause I !;)elieve LLr:nly t~at we have another chance. We probably have many chances,but the aost ir.une::!iat.e chance lies in che benefits that: could accrue eo this ?:ovinc e :rom off-shore resources, oil and ga s.

If we are eo ca ke · a-ax i:!'Uill advam :a ge of t:.hat chance, ii we are to derive l!'.ax.imum ec­ onomic :-etu:::-n from t:."'ac resource t:."'aat li es off our shores -<!nci I co noc e:"link t:.'lere is any doubc anyJIOre t.hac it is c.'lere ;,e 1 ie•;e t!"lat: it is aDsolucely essencial, 93 1.

March 13, 1980 Tape No. 359 Ah-1 MR. RIDEOUT: I believe that it is vital that we as a Province have absolute ownership and control over it. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, ownership of that resource must be vested in this Province. How else can we ensure maximum economic returns? How else can we control the right of development? How else can we ensure maximum job opportunities for our people at a time when we have the highest unemployment rate in the country? If we do not own it, Mr.

Speaker, in my opinion, if we do not own it, we do not control it and if we do not co -ntrol it we become second fiddlers in our own backyards. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. NEARY: Right on! That is our posi~ion. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. RIDEOUT: Now, :tr. Speaker, I do not profess to be a constitutional expert. I do not ?rofess to be a constitutional expert whatsoever but I have come to the conclusion that if the ?Olitical will exists there is no problem for the Government of Canada ~o recognize Newfoundland's ownership to our offshore r~sou~ces. SO ME HON . MEMBERS: Hear, hea~~ :tR. RIDEOU~: Mr.

Speaker, I went home this weekend wit h a stack of documents and spen~ all weekend studying the~, everything I could get my hands on relative ~o offshore ownership and jurisdiction and con~rol and whatever else you want tc talk about in that regard. I did so because I am concerned. I am concerned that we as Newfoundlanders may be denied our most promising chance to take control of our own destiny.

I have concluded, as have many, many people in this Province, that Newfoundland has an excel lent and unique legal =ase when it comes to the offshore resources, I do not think there is any doubt abou t that, but I do not believe that we as a Province ought to have to proceed to fight the legal battle. The Geneva Convention in 1958 recognized that coastal states own undersea resources to t~e edge of the Continental Shelf or as far as may be exploitable. 935

March 13,1980 Tape No. 3 59 AH-2 MR.RIDEOUT: Canada is the coastal state in this particular case. There is no doubt about that. However, Newfoundland itself was a coastal state until 1949 and Term 37 of the Terms of Union,as I understand it,expressly states that we did not transfer our offshore ownership to Canada when we joined Confederation. Now that is the legal argument, But why, I ask, should such an argument be necessary? There is no reason in my opinion why the Government of Canada cannot enter into an agreement with Newfoundland saying that"we will not contest your ownership to those resources.

We believe they are yours," they can say, "and you can have them.'' Now if the government of some other province wish to contest that, which I frankly find inconceivable, or if the oil companies wish to contest it, which I again frankly find inconceivable, then, you know, we will let the chips fall where they may when that time comes. I believe that the Government of Canada can recognize our ownership. I am of the opinion that "there is already ample precedent in the Canadian Confederation for such action.

There was some ~eference made in this Bouse a few days ago about the establishment of the three Wes~ern provinc~s, Manitoba, Saskatchewan 2nd Alberta. They were carved out off 9-upert"s Land, I believe, in 1905. Now at: that time in 1905 when those provinces were set up, ~r. Speaker, neither of those three provinces were given own8rship to any of their rasources. The ownership of those resou=ces continued to be vested in Canada in the right of the Crown. None of those three provinces were given ownership in 1905 when the provinces we~e set up.

But then of course, as a result of c~ac those p~ovinces were in a financial strait jacket:. They could not tax their resources, they ~ould not derive any income whatsoever from their resources and it got to che point, as my research tells me, that the Province of Manitoba was practically bankr~pt and they 936

March 13, 1980 Tape 360 EC - l MR. T. RIDEOUT : had to go to the Government of Canada and say to them, 'Look, unless we get ownership of our resources then we have had the biscuit, we might as well throw it in.' Therefore, in 1930, there was an amendment made to the British North America Act transferring the ownership from the Government of Canada to the governments of the t.'lree provinces concerned. Now, Mr. Speaker , how was that done?

It was not done wit.~ the unanimous consent of all the other provinces, it was done by enabling legislation passed through the t.~ee Legislatures in question and the same legislation passed through the House of Commons in Ottawa, and then those four governments, the three provincial governments and the federal government, made an appeal to the British House of Commons to have the British North America Act changed. That is how it was done. There was no great unanimity across t.~e country. I do not know if provinces objected to it at that time or if t.~ey did not, but that is how it was done.

And I say it can be done that way again if t.~e political will exists in having it done. SOME !iON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear: Come over here! Come on over! MR. T. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, t.~ere would be no !ieritage Fund in Alberta today if that constitutional change had not taken place. The !ieritage Fund would be in Ottawa, it would not be in Alberta. And one final point on that, Mr. Speaker, that change was carried out by a Liberal Government in Ottawa. SOME HON. ME:1BERS : Hear, hear~ MR. T. RIDEOUT: The hon. Ernest LaPointe, I believe, was the man who sponsored the legislation t.'lrougl':. the House of Commons.

SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh: MR. T. RIDEOUT : Now, Mr. Speaker, here is where ! have to, in conscience,

part views with the Liberal Government of Canada. Mr. Trudeau says that even if he wished, he could not give us ownership of ~'le offshore, and I say in view of t.'le case I just quoted that that is nonsense. I am no expert stacked up against him in those kinds of matters, but I fir~ly believe that that is nonsense. 937

March 13, 1980 Tape 360 EC - 2 MR. T. RIDEOUT : Mr. Trudeau says we can have lOO per cent of the revenue from any offshore development until we become a 'have' province. I say that is very nice, but I say we also want ownership of that resource. It is ours. We can agree not to disagree on that. Surely, two governl!lents can agree to that. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear , hear! MR. T. RIDEOUT: We want to own it, Mr. Speaker. We want to control it. It is our birthright, it is our resource, and anything less than that I cannot accept. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. T.

RIDEOUT : The ownership of offshore oil and gas, I believe is fundamental to ~~is Province's ability to control the rate and type of development and to maximize the economic return from the resource to the people of the Province. The fact is that if we do not own the resource, we cannot control it on our terms.

Without owner­ ship, the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador will not be in a position to enforce the Newfoundland and Labrador petroleum regulations that were­ drawn up in 1977, regulations which pe~t this Province to decide when, where, to whom and ~der what conditions exploration and production rights should be granted, and I think that is vital. In essence then , Mr. Speaker, without ownership, Newfoundland will be in the difficult position ~hereby ~~e greatest economic development to take place in the history of this Province will be undertaken without a substantial provincial involv~~er.t or control.

I say ~~t because ~~is Province would be defenceless in the face of a commercial oil and gas discove~ if our regulations could not be enforced. And I sav ~~at for a number of reasons. The companies and their contractors must give preference to local qualified labour, to local creative goods and services as ~ell as preference to local firms, organizations and companies. The companies must spend a certain amount of money every year on education, training, research ~~d development.

Also, ~~e development of even a single offshore oil field will involve the investment of up to several billion dollars and would have a massive impact on this Province. All 938

March 13, 1980, Tape 361, Page 1 -- apb MR. RIDEOUT: such developments must be controlled, the benefits maximized and the negative impacts minimized. Thus, a development plan must be submitted to and approved by the government of the Province before any development can take place. When a development plan is approved and the oil companies have earned two and-a-half times, I believe L~e regulations say, the cost of development of the well, the Province has a right to obtain a 40 per cent interest in that well and all the rights to sit on the operating committee which oversees the development of the well.

This committee has the responsibility for amending contracts on behalf of the group and thus the Newfoundland Government's representative would be in a position to ensure that local labour, goods and services are used to the maximum extent possible.

In order to ensure that offshore developments do not take place at too fast a rate, given the Province's social and economic lifestyle, ~he oil and gas regulations have a provision limiting the nurr~er of oil and gas discoveries under development and in production at any one time on the first round permits, and secondly, a public hearing process must be entered into in order to ascertain whether the issuance of more permits would be in t~e interest of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

Now, these are some of the most important measures which this Province will not be in a position to take if we do not have the ownership of those resources. The bottom line, Mr. Speaker, in my opinion, is that this Province will not be in a position to enforce any regulations or measures 939

.:. March 13, 1980, Tape 361, Page 2 -- apb_ MR. RIDEOUT: relating to oil and gas if we do not have the ownership. We will be solely dependent on federal regulations which in no way reflect the social and economic objectives of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. Thus if the federal government persist in their claim,Newfoundland could then be deprived of the levers with which to create revenue and stimulate industrial growth and progress. Now, Mr. Speaker, I want to say what I intend to say carefully. Because, Mr.

Speaker, if that process or position that I have just outli!' ,~d, if that is confrontation then I say sobeit, let it be confrontation. This Province, I would remind members of this House, was to a large degree built and has indeed developed and grown on the process of confrontation. There was confrontation right from the beginning in Newfoundland and Labrador with the English fish merchants with regard to settlement. There was confrontation with the Fishing Admirals. There was confrontation with the French around the French shore of this Province, my part of the coast.

So, you know, confrontation is nothing new to us here in Newfoundland and Labrador, we ha ve always, all throughout our history, had to confront somebody or someone,sometime, somewhere. So I am not really concerned or scared about confrontation. Now that is not to say, Mr. Speaker, let me make this abundantly clear, that is not to say that we should not first try ~~e friendly approach. MR . J&~IESON: Hear, hear! MR . RIDEOUT: I suspect the Premier will meet with the new Prime Minister, and I believe he said some thing about i ~ to my friend,the Leader of ~~ e 940

March 13, 1980, Tape 361, Page 3 -- apb MR . RIDEOUT: Opposicion (Mr.Jamieson) earlier today, I suspect ~e Pr~~ier will mee~ with the new Prime Minister very soon on this issue. Maybe ~e has already talked with ~im, I do not ~ow . ~tR . Ji\~'1IESON : gloves . MR. RIDEOUT: Wit~out ~he boxing I sugges~ ~~at when they meet the Premier should ask ~1r. Trudeau whether or not he is prepared to ?roceed along ~~e lines of the agreement reached earlier between our Premier and Mr. Clark. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. ~!DEOUT: That is ~~e :irsc question that should be asked. 1'!1ere is an exchange of le~ters, I be lieve, between the :ormer P~ime ~n~ste= a:1d the ?render so ::!'ley are t!lere, ~~ey can be loo!<ec at. And ~~at , as I understand ~~e ?OSieion, is complete ownershi?, jurisdict~on and cont=ol o= offshore 941

March 13, 1980 Tape No. 362 SD - l MR. T. RIDEOUT: resources to be vested in this Province. Now obviously the mechanical details..- there will be constitutional details, environmental details, industry, t;rade and commerces regulations, the whole gamut . -obviously the mechanical details would have to be worked out and many factors considered. Now, Mr. Speaker, once that question has been asked, if the answer is yes, fine, that is it. We can proceed and the strateqy that was developed between our Premier and the former Prime !tinister can continue. Now, Mr.

Speaker, if the answer to that question is no, then I say the gloves should come off right there and then. And I will support that. SOME HON. ME."'BERS : Hear, hear. MR. T- RIDEOUT: I will support that, Mr. Speaker, if it comes to that. If there has to b~ confrontation at that stage of the game.- try the friendly approach first-but if there has to be ~:"":.:'rontation at that stage of the game, then I say let us have at it. ~. Speaker, the stakes al:e too high and we must not compromise on this ownership issue. We can not afford to.

Now I do not pretend to be speaking for my colleagues ~hen I say those things; some of them, I know, agree with me, some of them may not. I may not see eye to eye with everybody ,bu':. that is how I feel about it and again I do not mind that kind of confrontation if it has to come about. AN HON. MEMBER: Speak your piece. MR. T. RIDEOUT: Thomas Jefferson, a ~ise political ~ar horse, Mr. Speaker, once said that a- little rebellion now and then is a good thing Well, I say that when it comes to this ownership- MR. S. hrr~?":; We are not Tories, we are a - - --·--- ~~~ra1. Party . 942

March 13, 1980 Tape No. 362 so - 2 MR. T. RIDEOUT: - question, Mr. Speaker, the rebellion as far as I am concerned is on. I believe that we, as a party, must fundamentally shift our policy on offshore ownership. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear. MR. T. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, that may well mean disagreeing in a fundamental way with our brethren in Ottawa - MR. JAMIESON: Hear, hear. MR. T. RIDEOUT: -tJut the interests of Newfoundland dictates that we do nothing less. MR. S. NEARY: It would not be our first time. MR. T.

RIDEOUT: I would not suggest 1as some people have in this House, I would not suggest that any members who have spoken in this debate so far are any less of a Newfoundlander than I am, I would not suggest that. But I say let us stand up for Newfaur..dland on this critical issue and I say,too,that in conscience I c~~ take no other stand.whether everybody agrees with me or whether everybody disagrees with =~ 1 to 11\e is immaterial. I believe this issue to be so vital, to <>e so liiUch in the interest of Newfoundland that I am prepared to take my stand on it.

And if that 111eans disagreeing with political colleagues here or in Ottawa, tl!en I say sObeit ~f it means political trouble for me in my ~ district,then I say s6beit. If it means being scorned on a.~d harassed by those who disagree with me- tough- sobeit,,because the ownership,control and jurisdiction of our offshore resources can mean the economic revival of this Pr~vince. It will be a revolution that will me~" =told prosperity for our people. And if we have to fight to ensure that7 I do not mean with guns or whatever, but verbal battles.-then I am prepared to join in that fight. SOME HON. MEMBER: Hear, hear.

MR. T. RIDEOUT: If it should mean fighting alone, as I do not think it will,but if it should then I will stand alone. 843

!olarch 13 , 198 0 Tape No. 362 SD - 3 MR. T. Rl:DEOIJT: And if it means differences with political friends and colleagues in DIY party or the party in Ottawa, then e~ then I '<rill fight. I am prepared, Mr. Spe<llter, to carry that fight to every comer of DIY distnat and explain it to every penon in DIY district. SOME ~. MEMB.EltS : Hear, hear. MR. T. RIDEOUT: I am prepared to fight this issue in every part of this Province if we have to. And I am prepared to stand before any brother or sister Canadian in any part of this c:ountry and defend our position. And e"Ven, Mr.. Speaker, in the fizlal analysis if I should fail 1then I s.ball ~cept failure 944

~ch 13, 1980, Tape 363, Paqe l -- EL :-!..'t . <U!lEOUT : believ~ng and ~now~ng chat ! did ~ighc. :or in the end, each one of us ~c march to ~~e tune of his own C..'"'\UIUI\er . SONE EON . MEMBERS : !m . S?EA.'(E:R(Simms): and ?orests. MR . POWER : Hear, hear : The !'!on . :::he Mini ster of Lands l".r. Speake r, I did have some per functory rem arks as related to congratulating th e move r ~ ~ d seco nde r of the Address in Reply , th e :nember for 3urg eo - Bay d' Espo~r (Mr . Andr e•.-

s) and my colleague who h.as caken ove r my c!u t:.ies as Mi:list:er of Tourism , Rec::-eacion and Cul:::ure (~lr. DaNe}, but: in all honesty, ~. Speake:-, ! am so humbled by what has just caken place on o::.'le ocher side of the House, I am so humbled because it :.-e.'lews L'l :ne and maybe in the people of :o~e·.r::oundland a si:nple =act, :hat: people do sca:u:i up for e.hei::- ?rinciples.

SOME EON • )oo:E..'<!BERS : Hear, hea=! ~L~. ?O:iER: '!ou kno..,, -:here may !le ~ :ot of 'hea.::, hea::-s' from che ot!ler sJ.de c! t!le :!ouse, :me I !!:!! ::.'le ::..rs1: llem.ber cf l:ius gove:-:unent: who ~s scood up ::o speak i:l chis Th::-or.e Speech debace who does not: have to :.-e:uee w~t was said be:'ore h~ ~Y ~ member of the Opposition. t.hat ! do not have co s~nd up and say ::hat the member of ::!"!e Opposi ::ior. ·.-ho just spok.e preceding Jle . .,.as ·.rrong, t!lat: his fur:damental belief as to how Newfour:Cla::d m~:sc develop, as to the fcndame~cal bel~ef, t:he basic ?hilosoph~ca l pn.r:c.:.ple o: ~ho owns our resou.rces, ::nat ! co ::o-. i>..ave r.o ::;et '"'"' anci r~fuce thac.

The me:n.be: for 3aie Ver;;e - :~ce ::>ay !} tr. RJ.ceo•.1t) ·..-no )usc spoke, · .. "ho sa!'s, !...'"l :ac~. ::!"lac ti:e ow:-~e rs hip :Jf ~Ur: !:"esour:e off ou: 3horel~:le !s ~~s, it is no~ :o ~ s}'-14:ed, ~~ l.S :tee ~=be g!.ven away, !lu -c 1.~ is ours, al"..C. my chilCre:1's anC : .. :'le 94 5

Harch 13, 1980 Tape No. 363 :C:L - 2 !o!R. C. POWER: children of all ~'le persons in ~ewfoundland. Mr. Speaker, I can imagine what the member from Baie Verte -White Bay has gone through.

The fact that he, as a member of a p~rty, as a member of a caucus in conjunction with a federal party that is in power in Ottawa, which has a certain amount of ccr.':rol and ~·ay!..c almost all of the control in their minds in Canada, that this member has stood up and taken a directly opposite position to what his party ~as been saying, both prov- incially and federally - directly, absolutely, unequivocally opposite to what they are saying! SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. C. POWER: And I will tell you, Mr.

Speaker, that tomorrow thFre will be certain persons in this House, and certain persons in this Prcvince,who will not begin to fathom what has taken place today. The press gallery, who were, for the ~ost part absent, do not probably begin to appreciate what it takes for a member of caucus to stand up and go against his party's position - SOME EON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear~ '1? .. C. ?0~1ER: - but he did it on a ~atter of princi?le, a rnacter of belief. SOME HON. OlE!lliERS : Hear, hear! MF. C.

POI-iFR: The fact that the rne!nber for Eaie Verte - 1-ihite Bay spoke as a Newfoundlander and as a Canadian, born in the sa~e time in history as I was born, just before Confec- eration, ·,.,he believes and fully appreciates what :anada can co and what it means for us, in the world community, to be part of a cour.tr! as glorious, with as good a background and with the ~otential rJture that Canada ~as, but who believes that the bottom line has got tote 946

~:a r:: .h 13, 1 gso Tape No. 363 :v - l XR . c. !'01-:C:R: chat I li ve in Ne wfouncla nd,t hat Newfo un dland is ~ h at we ha ve got: to cevelop and what we have got: co procect. 1 and then he t.al ks about i!'l his speech for a few ::-or.-ent:s about che ;:olit.i cal ~o•ill. Th ere is no political will in Can ada to giv e New foundlanc its eair share. !t is not existent: in O tta~a, iC is simply i.Ot C.."lere WiC-h C..h. e 1i0Ve:nment t.ita ·c is t.be::-e nC '..;.

Any!:ociy opposite . anybody in Can ada can ceny the fact: that the ?rin :e :tiniste::- of Canada tocay does not: take a ~'ldament:ally opEosite posi tio n to the one chat our qo ve=tlen t ta kes in Sew foundland 1 anybody ?pposice '"ho c:a:1 ceny t..'lac. anyboey opposice ~ho says the •:"ecier al i:.iberal ?:~ny '"!uc:h is no .. · in po wer is goir<: to c;i ve Ne •.,.fol:.rtdland its ~ull share of those offsho re resources !.s net, I suppo se ,acknowleeqine the :3cts of life that a ~e ~~e~e r.o~ i~ c~~aca. ~he !a c: of ~t all ~s ~hat ~~e~ L~e ~emb er S;?ea.<~ .!.n one se.,tence ha calks ,a.bout con£rcnta tion any maybe )lewroundland has !:leen !.n cor.fi:oncadon since :..'le yea.r one ::..":ousand or :::'lerearout:s · .. hen tb.e 'li.'<i:~c;s came here.

Sl.nce t.he 947

'larch 13, 1980 -Tape No. 364 "1M - 1 l1R. C. POWER: 1400s when John Cabot and his people came and it was confrontation. You know,it is not so bad some- times, I have been in a lot of confrontatioDs in my political days and before that. But it is not so bad, Mr. Speaker, to be involved in confrontation.

What is bad is for us as a Province to have always been historically involved in confrontation~ that we lost 1 confrontations where we gave away so much from Labrador, on which my good colleague spoke before, who knows so much for a feeling of Labracor where so much has been given away, where we know as Newfoundlanders, ~ho live on my share and who live in Labrador, and on all ~arts of the coastline and the cities of Newfoundland, who know that our life today is so difficult that we cannot do the things we would like to do in education, we cannot do ~he things we would like to do in hospital care, W8 cannot do the thincrs we would like to do to develop our forests and our tourist resources 1 we cannot do it because we have lost so many of those con frontaticns.

So often ••hen the bottom line carne down after a confrontation it was ~ewfoundland . lost, Newfoundland give· away, ~ewfoundland has got to go to scmebodv else to get its just rewards.

You ~~ow,! remember the 70od me~be~ fer Kilbride, who preceded the me!rl.ber f .~r Kilbride now, ~-~!:'. •..rells <.vhen he ·.vas i:1 this House, standing dowr: there and givinq an analogy of what the federal system means to Newfoundland, and :,e sa!tS, "Newfoundland is like a pe!'"sor.. who is drowninq, and tb.e feder.~l government lifts ~cu out of th-e water. :"hey hold you up, they will not let you drown. ~either will they take vou out cf the 'Nacer aP.d let you stand on solid ground." And that to a large degree, :-1r. Speaker, is what ~"'e are doing r-.ar.r.

Nith our offshore oil and gas we are trying to find for the first time ~n ~ewfoundland's hiS"ory that we •.vill be on solid ground, that we '"ill be the masters of our own destiny. It miqht be a cliche, but it is a cliche which goes to the hearts and souls of every ~!ewfoundlander, che fact tha~ we 948

~rch l3, 1980 Tape No. 364 GH-2 MR. POWER: have to be 1 as Ne•gfoundlanders 1 persons who can control where we go, when we go there and how we go about it. You ~~ow, Mr. Speaker, it is almost led to believe sometimes in the Canadian scene - and I look at editorials of today in the paper where the former premier of Nova scotia says that we should not be selfish, we should not be looking for jobs for Newfoundlanders first, that fact that we should be giving more to Canada.

You would almost begin to believe that there are certain persons who have accepted, in their own minds, the fact that the only reason we want oil and gas in Newfoundland is to build up a Heritage Fund. Mr. Speaker, we do not want money for the sake of money. We want money so we can do the things that Newfoundlanders so badly need and so badly deserve. You know, this might sound as a little bit of an exaggeration but, to a large degree, since 1q49 Newfoundland has been on a welfare system between here and Ottawa.

We receive the benefits of Old Age Security, we receive the benefits of Unemolo;rment Insurance, we receive ~he benefits of babv bonus 1 we receive so much in the form of little gifts that they give us to keep us alive, to keep us from drowning, so to speak, but what we are saying now, ~r. Speaker, is ~hat we want more than that. we •Nant as Newfoundlanders and it is funny, you know, that sometimes, Mr.

Speaker, that the most sincere motives of persons are the ones which are most oftenly misconstrued, the fact that we now in the Canadian comrnunit:,r ~ay be oerceived by certain oe~sons like the former premier of Nova Scotia as being selfish people, as people who are trying to grab all while the going is good. You know, the opposite is just the truth, that '"'e, after 25 or Jn years of Confederation, want to finally give back to Canada ,,,hat we know that Canada deserves. SO~ HON. MEM~ERS: Hear, hear! !1R. !"OWER: Mr.

Speaker, we do not T..van t, as a community in Newfoundland, we do no~ want to take more from the Canadian community at large. We want to be able to say to Canada, look, now that we have money in Newfoundland, now that we have paid our own way and are paying it and paying our debts, that maybe we would like to say, look, maybe 949

- ~ :!arch 13, 1080 "'ane No . 36d r.rl-3 ~- oo~~~: there is a problem in caoe 3reton Island with =he fores= industry . vavbe ~hev ~a~t to develop an indusr.rv in l!orthern Ont:<~rio . :-!ayre we could ler.d so:nethin<; to ::he Canadian economv in chat sense. ~aybe by takins less ~ne~plo~ent Insur~~ce bene fits out of nuebec and 3ritish Col~ia and On tario ~ybe h~ can aiv e ~ lic :le ':iny bit !:lack. vie are :tot beinc;r selfish in Ne ·Nfoundlanc!. All we are saying !s , "look, you let us sta .nd on our own t'-'0 feet.

Let us as one ?rovince of a Canadian countrv show yo u how good He ca n reall v be . ~o nor. alwavs s.ssume the worst. Oo not abtays asslll!le that we are on t~e take for more little soclal welfare benefits . Ju st ;.iv e us the henetit of the doubt just once. Let us take control of th e ·of.fshore resources. Let us ?rove co the people of 'lewfouncl<lnd and to Canaca . ..,hat: aood citizens ~f Canada we can reall,, re... ~Tu st t!'le opposite co ':he m.em.."'er 's reoarks :rom, ! :;"~Jess, '11l.ndsor-3uchans (v.r . ?liahtl sso •

March lJ, 1980 Tape 365 EC - l MR. C. POWER: the other day, who s~ys that our claim for offshore oil and gas is some kind of seditious plot that has been lurking in the minds of all Tories since 1949. Now, I am not sure, Mr. Speaker, when I w~s born in 1948 whether I was able to formulate that plan in 1949 or not. I am not sure that I could do that at the time. If it did develop somehow or other that New:oundland was in confrontation with Ottawa, that we as a group are supposed to again confront and then condescend and then just give up our rights to something, now, Mr.

Speaker, if th.&t is the way the Canadian Confederation has to be, then there is something seriously at fault. There is something seriously the matter with that system of government which forces us as citizens to, I suppose, take ~~at kind of attitude. You know, wit.'l the money that comes into Newfoundland from oil and gas, there is so much that has to be done, there are "SO many things that have to be done. You k..,ow, I really laugh. I suppose the sincerity of the member for Baie Verte - White Bay (Mr. T.

Rideout) was what really threw me off, because all of my first fifteen or twenty minutes of arqumentw~ trying to establish, I suppose, a rebuttal to what ~"e Opposition has been saying on why we should have control of something. And as an example of the - I do not know if 'hypocrisy' is a parliamentary word or whethe= it is a too strong word, but the other day when the member for Windsor - Buchans (Mr. G.

Flight) asked the Minister of Mines and Energy if we are going to force the persons offshore to use barite because we have some of it in Newfoundlanc, ano ~'len he stood up and g.&ve a speech and said, 'But all the controls have to be in Ottawa,' now, Mr.

Speaker, let me not be - 'hypocrisy' may be too strong a word, but my God, Almighty, there has to be a certain amount of common sense.If we are going to control that resource of the thing, if we are going to develop the resources in Buchans, if we are going to force somebody off our coast to abide by our laws, then we have to have some ownership and some control. I cannot, nor can the Government of Newfoundla..,c. , 951

March l3. 1980 Tape 365 EC - 2 MR. C. POWER: force any company tc abide by laws if ~~ey are working out of British Columbia under British Columbia's jurisdiction, if they are working out of Sweden under Sweden's jurisdiction, and no 11110re ~ we, •s ~ ~overnment in Newfoundland, force persons off that coast to abide by our laws if they are under Ottawa's jurisdiction. SOME liON. MEMBERS : liear , hear! MR. c. POWER: Mr. Speaker, there are so many things that have to be done.

W'e talk so much about oil and gas sometimes that maybe somebody thinks that the real heart, body and soul of Newfoundland is not our fishery. I suppose, in the Address in Reply to the Speech from the Throne, • member is supposed to give • certain breakdown or run­ down of things that he would like to see happen in his district and things that have happened and progress tl}at. is there. I started to break mine down into certain topics that I wanted to talk about and I came up wi~, fishery and I came up with my district.

They are one and the same, there is no distinction - ~~at and my district thet runs from Petty Harbour to Cappahayden are, in effect, one and the same ·. W'e have 5,000 or 6,000 people almost completely and solely to the man and woman living directly or indirectly from our fishery.

Now, it is not only a matter of offshore oil and gas with ottawa when it comes to control of our resources, it is the Northern cod stock, it is a whole attitude of a government that says, 'We will keep you from drowr~ng but we will not let you swim on your own and we will not let you get on your own two feet.' There are so many things that have to take place in Newfoundland, Mr.

Speaker, and the speaker who preceded me from the Opposition of this Province - ~,e official Opposition - who has taken a position fundamentally totally opposed to that of his party both in Newfoundland and in ottawa, that says something to me and to all Newfoundlanders, that we are not the ignorant group that so~£ persons think we might be, that we have an awful lot of potential that we are trying to develop. 952

March 13, 1980 Tap! 365 EC - 3 MR. C. POWER: Today , I saw a letter , which many of you may not have seen, to the Editor of the Evening Teleqram from a 'ftry old qentl~ in calvert, in my district, w,llo says that he is an old 1 iqnorant - he des :cril:les himself as uneducated - AN . RON;, MEMBER: (Inaudible) • MR. C. POWER: No, he is a humble person in the sense that - he is ~ 'uneducated Newfoundland noqqin' , he calls it.

But sti~l he beqins to realize that at his aqe when he does not have ~ real ellildren who are goinq to COllie after him, any person who is goinq to benefit from this t,hinq in N~foundland, he lcnows fundamentally that if Newfoundland is to develop, Newfoundland has to have control and ownership of its resources. MR. C. Bl!E'l'T : Perhaps the hen. member would like to read the headline there over the letter. lolR. C. ?Oro"E:R: It says, 'Will we crawl to Trudeau or stand behind P~ckford?' SOME EON . ~ERS: Bear, hear! MR. C.

POWER: And if you want to ,go on with the issu; then immediately above - tnaybe a humbling effe~ also, the fa:~ t.'lat we have this from a humble gentieman,supposedly uneducated 1 in Calvert- 953

March 13, 1980, Tape 366, Page 1 -- apb MR. POWER: and immediately above it in the Evening Telegram today, a column by Doug Fisher, one of Canada's leading columnists, that says, 'The Liberals are clever at camouflage'. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. POWER: And you begin to wonder, Mr. Speaker, if there are not certain elements of truth in that argument.

That by camouflaging the real issue in Newfoundland now, with control of our offshore oil and gas, with control of all of our resources - you know, I am very fortunate at this stage of my life to be responsible for the Department of Forests, Resources and Lands which is the only real renewable resource that we manage in this Province.

Because we do not as yet have management capability of our fisheries, and as anybody who goes around my part of the coastline, or any part of the coastline in Newfoundland will realize, there are an awful lot of problems relating to ~,e fisheries, problems that we as ~ewfoundlanders cannot even begin to use our potential to, I suppose, not only control but to change the situations, to improve on situations because you have to go to Ottawa to change some of those problems that are now being developed in Newfoundland and almost encouraged to develop by certain persons in Ottawa who simply do not understand the Newfoundland way of living.

And all I will say, being in Forest Resources and Lands now, being responsible for a renewable resource, I begin to realize how much has to be done to make sure that 200 years down the road, not tomorrow, not in my lifetime, but 200 years or 300 years down the road we in Newfoundland will have a place in Newfoundland, a place to make a living for our great, great, great, great grandchildren of that time, that we will have a Newfoundland that is similar to what 854

March 13, 1980, Tape 366, Page 2 -- apb MR. POWER: it is today. Also, Mr. Sneaker, in my district today, especially in the lower end, in Bay Bulls and Witless Bay, there is a very genuine concern of what the offshore oil and gas is going to mean to small fishing communities. Certainly it is a concern that we expressed as a government when we established the Arts Council last year that I was directly involved with, when we as a government began to acknowledge the fact that there is so much danger. Whenever in our society there is a great advantage about to take place, there is an equal and opposite disadvantage.

There is certainly a very genuine concern in many parts of rural Newfoundland that we may lose certain aspects of our way of life which are extremely important to us. Mr. Speaker, in concluding I can only again say, as I did in my opening remarks, that what has happened today - the speaker that preceded me, by giving a position that is totally and fundamentally opposed to what his party is saying, he has done it because he is a Newfoundlander and a Canadian and has done it for issues of conscience. I can only laud him and praise him for his efforts.

I I understand and fully appreciate that with the persons like the member for Baie Verte - White Bay (Mr.Rideout) Newfoundland is in good hands. Thank you. sor~ HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER(Butt): The hon.the member for Torngat Mountains. SOME H0N . !-!EMBERS : Hear, hear! M."-. WARREN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I follow the customarJ procedures of congratulating the mover and 955

March 13, 1980, Tape 366, Page 3 -- apb MR. WARREN: the seconder of the Address in Reply to the Speech from the Throne. I should also like to extend my congratulations to the member for Burgee - Bay d'Espoir (Mr. Andrews) on his recent election to this House of Assembly. I cannot wish him a long stay in the House, but, anyhow, as long as he is here I am sure that we will get along quite well toge~~er. Mr. Speaker, I Lhink in this Throne Speech debate practically every member on both sides of the House has spoken of oil, oil and more oil. Hardly anyone spoke about cod liver oil. Mr.

Speaker, I am going to move away from the oil a bit this evening. I am going to speak on things that are not in Lhe Throne Speech, things that need much more attention than this government todayhaspresently placed in its attention, and that is, as the hon. member said who just spoke, the cost of living. MR. NEARY: MR. WARREN: Especially in Labrador. ~~- Speaker, would you believe that you can go to the Dominion Stores here in St.

John's and you can pick QP a dozen of extra large eggs at a cost of $1.41? ·You can go into Davis Inlet, to a store operated by this government and pick up a dozen medium sized eggs for $3.10. ~~- NEARY: Almost three times as much. 956

March 13, 1980 Tape 367 MB - l MR. WARBEN :- Mr. Speaker, now this is what this government is not addressing itself to. MR. NEAR!': Right on. Too interested in (inaudible) They want to ol~v cheaP 'DOli tics. MR. G. WARREN: The cost of living here in St. John's compared to the cost of living in co11111unities along the Labrador Coast~ ninety-four cents for a pound of turnip, ninety-four cents. Here you can buy four pounds for sixty-nine cents. Mr.

Speaker, I am going to dwell a little bit on the conditions and the tribulations and trials of :i.h·ing in re~~Cte areas of this Province, in particular remote areas on \:..':.a Labrador Coast. I would like to go back first anC. alth.ough I ..,as not in the House yesterday I am quite pleased the government has decided unanimously to support the resolution concerning the air ambulance service. Since the Hon.Minister of Finance (Dr. Collins) spoke last Wednesday in t,.'lis resolution,! am sure he must have had a good talking to by our Premier.

He must have been persuaded by other members of his government that we need an ambulance service in Labrador. and with the statement that the Premier made yesterday in summing up,I am quite pleased that the government has taken such a stand and I am looking forward ·4hen the Budget is brought down in the next two or three weeks 1 S.'<at -.,e will s~ a substantial amount of money allotted for me~ical ~vacuations in Labrador. Mr. Speaker, a medical problem in Labrador is only ~-a t~L~h of the iceberg of the problems that we encounter in Labrador.

To gi ·~ you another example, in a nursina clinic in Hopedale, at the same tim<'! there could be a patient that c'.11e t:o being probably intoxi- cated,-?~ou~~~7 he ~ed a cut on his leg or arm or something,i~ t~~en to that clinic, i~ :;;laced b.tc a bed, a.nci at the same time in this Sall'e room. of propably a ten by twenty size room, there is another bed there a:1C. ;::::-a·c:?..!J.!.;r a lo.·ly i z havinq ?. deli•r'?r<r at the same time, In one roorn n=!::>ably a male a::d a female patJ.ent, -:::5.'" l.s not called for in this day and age. Mr.

Speaker, I am going to run through six of ~~e communities in my district and express to this hon. House some of the concerns that have been expressed during the past several years by members 957

March 13, 1980 Tape 367 MB - 2 Mil.. G. WARREN: on both sides of the House ~..!lut very little has been done. The people in Rigol.et asked for a new fish shed to be erected. sure enouqh,last year the government - probably they qave tenders - anyhow the successful. bidder was a former P.C. candidate in that area, he got the tender, he goes in and he erects shed, 1,000 bags of salt arrives in Rigol.et later on in the Fall, they put the sal.t in the shed and the floor comes out..

Now, that fish shed is down there with no fl.oor, and I understand ·the company has been paid for the construction of this buildinq without inspection. Now the bottom is out of this shed and the fishermen are wonderinq what is goinq to happen when the fish come .in in July or Auqust. MR. NEARY: What about the salt? Is it spoil.ed or what? MR. G.

WARREN: No, the salt is still. okay until the ice starts mel.tinq and once that happens then the salt naturall.y is qoinq to go down on the beach and it is goinq to be gone. we qo further up the shoreline to ,Post- ville,and here I have to go back to the book we call the blue and w~ite book r that the hon. member from Naskaupi had released recently. He is talking about all the recommendations 958

March 13, 1980 Tape No. 368 GH-1 MR. WARREN: that have been imPlemented, have been carried out by this administration. Mr. Speaker, if writing a letter to a federal department is carrying out a recommendation, wo could have 5,000 of those done in one day if we haa a ~ecretary fast enouqh to write letters. Mr. Speaker, it says. "We contacted the federal government, it is a federal government responsibility, ,, they have to bn)"'leT"Pn-t: it Well, that is fine.

I think there are about seven or eight here concerning the Department of Justice and where the Justice Department in those cases are federal monies the recommendation says that we havP. ~0P"I:~cted the federal d.epartment and the matter has been looked into.Now, it is very easy to carry a recommendation like that. The recommendation has been looked into. Mr. Speaker, I only wish I had two or three days because I would like to go through those recommendations one by one. Mr.

Speaker, I am just ~oing to go through now, seeing that I notice one of the two minister<: left in the House no"· is the Minister of Justice (Mr. 0ttenheirner) 1 I am croinq to drill a little bit on the Justice Deoartment. Mr. Speaker, if you will give me a second I am going to run through here. Mr. Speaker, Recommendation qo. 102, '•Th<: Commission recommends that the Province negotiate >rith the federal government •11i th a view to establishing- a community based detention centre at Happy Valley-Goose Bay for native and "lorthern offenders:· Mr.

Speaker, about a month ago the DePartment of Justice chartered an aircraft from Labrador to bring twelve offenders out here to Her Majesty's Penitentiary in St. John's and to the Salrnonier Prison Camp. Now, ~r. Speaker, that cost, I would venture to say, is between S7,000 and S8,000 for charter of a small aircraft, filled right to the gunwales, thev call i ~. OT..,,,,. if there v•as a detention centre set up in Hapoy 'Talley- Goose Bay, we are not only savir.g those extra dollars but are doing much me: re of vital importance, and that is, if a crime is committed - and usually 959

March 13, 1980 Tape No. 368 GH-2 MR. WARREN: those people are in here for two or three months, probably six months at a time - now, if a crime is committed, if those people are placed in a detention centre in Labrador, number one is they are in their own surroundings. The language barrier is not a difficulty.

Out here they are in completely different surroundincrs. ~he environment is different, the language barrier is completely in existence, because individuals from Davis Inlet who can only speak the Indian language probably and can say very few words in our English tongue, how in the heck is he communicating with a civil servant down in Her Majesty's Penitentiary? How would he be rehabilitated? He cannot be rehabilitated, Mr. Speaker.

So, it will not only give us the opportunity of having the offenders rehabilitated in their own surroundings,and it will probably help this offender to go back to his own community J:nowing that he has been rehabilitated and been spoken to in his native tongue, and goes back to his own community and probably will start on a new round. Mr. ·Speaker, there is another recommendation asking that an RCMP establishment be established in North West River. This was just wiped out, no comments abcut it at all, just sayinq that it was not practical. Mr.

Speaker, I have not got the time to go through all those individually, but I am hoping that in the course of this session of the House I will dwell on the ones that have not been implemented. I would say practically onlv about half of those recommenda­ tions have been L'llolemented to the benefit of Labrador. '\r. Speaker, I am going to go from Postville no<• in to Makkovik, and at the same time I am go,ing to tie in problems confronting Nain.

In those two communi ties we have the two largest fish plants in my district, ~ow, those two fish plants have to close down in late September or early October because of a very simple expense, a very minor expense, and that is installation of a heating system in the working portion of the plant. Now, that is not asking too much, probably $5,000 or 56,000 for a plant to install a heating system in the working portion of the fish plant. As you know, 960

:·larch 13, 1980 Tape 'lo. 369 DW - 1 :·!R. G. 1-IARREN : once you get up to ~abrader the weather is not the same as on the Island portion of the Province. We get Winter up there when people are in their bathing suits in st. John's and once September comes we need some kind of warmth to keep us working and vigorously working at that. So that is one thing I am throwing out to this govern- ment now,and I am sorry the Minister of Fisheries (Mr.

Morgan) is engaged in other deliberations down in Wesleyville but I hope that members of his caucus would pass this' nice request along to him asking to spend $10,000 or Sl2,000 to install heating systems in the working areas of those fish pla~ts. ~ow on the subject of the fisheries department, on ~he subject of the Fisheries Loan Board which, I think we all agree, this is why the new minister is trying to bring in new policies, a new Loan Board Chairman, new members of ~he Loan Board 1 and a big racket about other things. so I want to just read a let~er that I had from one of my cons~itu- ents.

No, ! •t~ill not read the letter, I •t~ill just tell you what the letter is about. This constituent of mine decided he was going to ?Urchase a boat on the Island portion of che P!"OVi!'lce. So this boat he pic~ed out was 513,500, the Loan Board ~as sent a person from their departme~c out to Placentia 9ay, - evaluated t~is boat and said, 'Okay, this boat is worth ~13,5:)1)'. So the guy in ~Tain -you know,it does cost money for a person to come from Nain to came out to St. John•s and rent a car - ?robably ~ot rent a car but ge~ a taxi or some- thing to go to a small co~munity in Placentia Bay.

So he listened to the good advice of the Loan Board. After all 1 this was the purpose of the Loan Board, to give advice, so the Loan 3oard said the boat is w ort ~ Sl3,500, so t~~ ~ ~ ? s:a·/5, ~O kay, I arn going to !lave ~er'. So his loan <~as a9p~oveC, the bact was sent up to him and he received the boat, he did not want it, it was terrible. It was not anything close 961

March lJ , 198 0 Tape No. 369 01·1 - 2 MR . G • WAS!l.£)1 : to the boat he wanted . ,\nd fur~hermore on top of ~hac the mortgage that he signed with ~he Loan Board said ~~at there was a Chevrolet motor in the ~oat. When he got the hoat there was a Volvo moe or in to it.

So he s "eot: it back, · ~;ell , ! do not .,..ant the boac or anything to do with i~. · So he sent Lt back and here is t~e lectar he received from the ~oan 3oard - now this guy did not know i~ ~ e should se n d t he ~o a~ b ack ~o the ori g inal owner or tb the Loan Board; after al~ it is a very complicated p rocess and the way the ~an Soard otorks is really complicated to say the trut!'\. It s ays h..er-e, "Today I was informed by CN officials t h at your boat purchase •as sen: back to the CNR pre~ises for delivery to its ~or mer owner because y ou we re not satis::'ied '"'ith t:"le purchase .

Th is i ndicates c o :he Soa=d :ha: you wi ll not ma ke an? ~u=t~e~ p ay- m e~t o n the boa~ a ~ci ~ath e r ~han l a c t ~e b oac d e~~riorate we ~ ill o ffe= i. -t fox sa l =i! b y t.enci~~ a _s is a!'ld w h e=~ i s .a.:1d 3u· ... y amount received for t!la t boa:: wi l l be crerii~e d -:o yo ur acco u n e-. . , T ~ at so u n~s lo gi cal,bu~ ~een Yh ile we ~ us t re me 2~er ~ ow ~ iv e :nonths b: e =- o ~e t:ti s l ette-r · ~"as ~ .. •= i t t en t ~ e Lo a:: 3o ard okayc C , t =:e- Lo an SoarC veri= ieC t-!-la:: th is :Coa t ;-fa-5 ftl-o-:- :.:. :::~3 , 5 JO ~ :·~~ : o~ JL~ ~a= 'l 2 ~ ~~ . ~ h i s !~~ ~ vi~ua l p ~r son ne : s a r eply b•=~ :~om ~ h e ~oan e oa: d af~er ! in~ e r : e deC o n ~i s Oe~al : a~C sai~ , 962

March 13, 1980 Tape No. 370 IB-1 MR. WARREN: "Look, the guy did not want the boat. He has $2,500 paid down on it as a down payment. Could he use that $2,500 towards the purchase of a new boat later on when the time is right?" The Loan Board writes back to him and says, "In reply to your letter to the acting Chairman". Now this letter came back to me with an accompanying one to my constituent.

It says, "The boat went up for sale, was on public tender and was sold for $4,700." And it says that the constituent is not only go~ng to get another loan from the boys until he pays back this $6,700 that was cost of the boat in the first place. MR. SPEAKER (SIMMS) Order, please! I do not wish to interrupt the hen. member's speech,but if I might take a moment, although it is not quite five o'clock I can inform the House now that I have received notice of two matters for debate at five­ thirty when a motion to adjourn will be deemed to be before the. House.

Notice given by the hen. the member for Windsor-Buchans (Mr. Flight) arising out of a question asked the han. Minister of Mines and Energy (Mr. Barry) and the subjec~ matter is barite production in Buchans. And the second ma~ter, a matter raised by the hen. member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary) arising out of a question asked the han. the Premier (Mr. Peckford) and the subject matter is increases in gasoline prices. The han. member for Torngat Mountains. MR. WARREN: So, Mr.

Speaker, you see that within a mat~er of months that boat was valued at $13,500 and then the Loan Board sold her for $4,700, and it says this individual guy is responsible for $6,700. Mr. Speaker, I think that is a complete shambles, is a complete 963

~arch 13 , 1980 Tape No. 370 IB-2 ~R. WARR EN: lack of kno w!edge by the ~oan Board, lack of k~owle dge oE ~he proble ms that are confronted by people not only in my cistrict but oth er parts of this ?rovlnce. ~r. Spea ker , I ~ould like to go on fur the r concerning bounty regulations. You know,we are not talking about a person who can get in his ca r tomorrow mor ni ng an d drive into St . Jo hn's and sit down and have a meeting ~ith the Loan Board.

We are talking abou~ peop lefor whom that is imp ossibl e, not only with t~e Loan Board, with any department of go vernment, it is im possib le for them to co me in when they feel like it and talk over with the department off1cials any problems tha t concern them. They have to wa it for an inspector from Arnold's Cov e to go down to Black Tickle or Cartwright to inspect a boat ~efo r e they can rece1ve the bounty.

Last year ic took seven mon ths for an indiv1dual in Cartw r1qht to get his boac in spe cted and at that time,aEter using his boat all the Summer,it cook some convinc1nq to make sure that that boat was new before he used ~t because the in spector was not in there to see it in its new state. ~r. Speaker, I am going to look back over some of the otner recommendat io ns. Recommendation numbe~ seven - these are the recommend at ions by the Royal Commission on Labrador - l.C says here, a very simple re commendatlon, it says that the ~overnment should let the people on the Labrador Coast know when they are coming.

Now r.h at 1s not too dif!icult to ask. 7hey are asking the go ver nmen~ of!icial, sayl.ng - Okay to~or r ow probably the ~epa r t~ent o! ~dccatl.on is sending a group o : people into Davis r:~let , Usual:y·.,hat happened mayb e it i.s not: happen1.ng tocay but ~hat happened 1.n the past was department: members !rom the Depa rtment of Education wou ld get on a plane here 964

March 13, 1980 Tape No. 37 0 IB-3 MR. WARREN: in St. John's,go to Goose Bay, probably take a charter from Goose Bay into Makkovik. Now all of the sudden the people of Makkovik see a chopper coming overhead. "I wonder who is that, I wonder?" It lands and out jumps a couple of people from the Department of Education. I do not mean any reference to Madame Minister or her department at the present day. I am jus·t saying what happened probably the last six or seven months ago.

Now, "Why did you not let us know you were corning?". 11 0h,we did not know we were going to carne today but seeing as we heard the weather was good in Labrador we carne on." And this is the kind of attitude that departments were taking; we will go in there, we will do our business and we will get out of it as fast as we can. I remember the Department of Fisheries going into a community down in the Straits area, got in there for twenty minutes, recommended that. a wharf will be built here - they never spoke to no council, no fishermen's committee - a wharf will be built here and took off back to St.

John's again the same day with the recommendation and the wharf was built in that same place without even the people knowing it. So I think this is what we need, we need consultation with the people.

There has to be consultation and with all the money that has been spent during the past years,and ! am sure will be spent in the years to come 1 it is not going to cost that much for telephone conversations where there are telephones in existence or a telegram to that effect to go to the Chairman of the Council or to the Chairman of the Fisheries Committee and advise them that, you know, a delegation will be in to Black Tickle on Thursday morning 1 weather permiting. At least then they know they are going to be there if the weather permits you to do so. MR. STAGG: Who built the wharf? MR.

WARREN: I beg your pardon? 965

March 13, 1980 MR. STAGG: talking about? MR. WARREN: Tape No. 3 70 IB-4 Who built the wharf you are Who built the wharf? I think it was under the Diefenbaker government. MR. STAGG: (Inaudible) the provincial government? MR. WARREN: Because provincial government 956

c·larch 13, 1980 Tape No. 371 DW - 1 ~R. G. WARREN : ~~3 involved vith the designing of the plans where the wharf would go.I understand that there was in the past good co-operation between the federal and provincial governments in all matter~ pertaining to develop- ment in Newfoundland; that is why we joined Canada, that is my understanding. And, Mr. Speaker, recommendation number 12 - MR. STAGG: What did Diefenbaker's government - AN BON. MEMBER: Keep quiet and let the man speak. ;-'[R. G. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, I like to talk without being interrupted but it is usual from this member, he is noted for that. ~R.

SPEAKER (Simms): Order,please! The hon. member wishes to be heard without interruption. ~1R. G. NARRE~T: Mr. Speaker, recommendation number 12: the commission recommends that the Province give priority to exp~nding the Newfoundland Information Se=vi~es to include a Zcnit~ ~umber to i~clude the Coastal sys~em of La~.rador. Now ~his had not been implemented t.hey say because we have a government office in Goose Bay that entails some of the departments we do not need a Zenith