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April 17, 2019

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS

Vol. XLVIII No. 8

The

House met at 10 a.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Trimper):

Admit strangers, please.

Order,

please!

Orders of the Day

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Government House

Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. A. PARSONS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would

call from the Order Paper, Order 3, third reading of Bill 3.

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Government House

Leader.

MR. A. PARSONS:

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded

by the Minister of Natural Resources, that Bill 3,

An Act To Amend The

Automobile Insurance Act, be now read a third time.

MR. SPEAKER:

It is moved and seconded that

the said bill be now read a third time.

Is it

the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

All

those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

MR. SPEAKER:

All those against, 'nay.'

This

motion is carried.

CLERK (Barnes):

A bill,

An Act To Amend The Automobile Insurance Act. (Bill 3)

MR. SPEAKER:

This bill has now been read a

third time and it is ordered that the bill do pass and its title be as on the

Order Paper.

motion, a bill, “An Act To Amend The Automobile Insurance Act,” read a third

time, ordered passed and its title be as on the Order Paper. (Bill 3)

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Government House

Leader.

MR. A. PARSONS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I call

from the Order Paper, Order 4, third reading of Bill 6.

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Government House

Leader.

MR. A. PARSONS:

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded

by the Minister of Transportation and Works, that Bill 6,

An Act To Amend The

Insurance Companies Act, be now read a third time.

MR. SPEAKER:

It is moved and seconded that

the said bill be now read a third time.

Is it

the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

All

those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

MR. SPEAKER:

All those against, 'nay.'

This

motion is carried.

CLERK:

A bill,

An Act To Amend The Insurance Companies Act. (Bill 6)

MR. SPEAKER:

This bill is now read a third

time and it is ordered that the bill do pass and its title be as on the Order

Paper.

motion, a bill, “An Act To Amend The Insurance Companies Act,” read a third

time, ordered passed and its title be as on the Order Paper. (Bill 6)

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Government House

Leader.

MR. A. PARSONS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We're

just whipping through it here. I just wish the budget was that quick.

I call

from the Order Paper, Motion 5.

WHEREAS

subsection 6(3) of the Independent

Appointments Commission Act provides the members of the Independent

Appointments Commission are to be appointed by the Lieutenant-Governor in

Council on a resolution of the House of Assembly; and

WHEREAS

subsection 7(1) of the act states that a commissioner may be reappointed; and

WHEREAS

the appointment of the following commissioners expires on May 25, 2019: Clyde K.

Wells, Chairperson; Zita Cobb; Shannie Duff; Philip R. Earle; Derek Young; and

WHEREAS

it is proposed that the said commissioners be reappointed as commissioners for a

term of three years;

NOW

THEREFORE

BE IT RESOLVED that the following persons be appointed members of the

Independent Appointments Commission for a term of three years: Clyde K. Wells,

Chairperson; Zita Cobb; Shannie Duff; Philip R. Earle and Derek Young.

Mr.

Speaker, as I speak to this motion, if I need a seconder, it would be the

Minister of Natural Resources.

MR. SPEAKER:

Thank you.

AN HON. MEMBER:

Who's always in her seat.

MR. A. PARSONS:

Who's always in her seat,

always doing her work.

What I

would say is that this is a fairly simple resolution. I'm not going to belabour

the Independent Appointments Commission. I'd like to say that, if I recall

correctly, that the formation of the IAC was our Bill 1, I think back in 2016,

if I recall correctly. Although, I know that Members on the other side will

certainly make some points about their thoughts on the process. What I can say

is that I think that it's worked extremely well in encouraging applicants from

all over this province to apply for positions.

People

can talk about or debate the individuals, the choices, and that's fine, but in

terms of the work that they've done, when you see people from all over the

province from bigger centres, smaller areas, female, male, different

demographics, different backgrounds, that people feel encouraged to apply

because they know that the application is going to an independent commission

made up of these individuals who, again, the quality of these people is beyond

reproach.

When you

look at these five names – I have to tell you, just from anecdotally hearing

about the work that they've done – this has not been a very easy appointment for

these individuals. They have put in a significant amount of work over the last

three years going through this process.

It was

created brand new. It's something that did not exist before and then when you

look at just the sheer number of agencies, boards and commissions that exist,

when you look at the numbers of people applying, when you look at the screening

processes and look at just reviewing these resumes. The fact is, it's been a

tremendous amount of work and I want to thank these individuals for the work

that they have put into this.

The

motion today is to allow for these five individuals to be reappointed for a

three-year term. We're so excited about this. I know that the Minister of

Transportation and Works and the Member for Mount Pearl - Southlands, I can just

hear the conversation they're having about how excited they are about the

quality of people like Clyde K. Wells and Zita Cobb and Philip R. Earle and

Derek Young. They're excited about this, and so am I. I'm excited about this

too.

That's

what we need in this House, we need good vigorous debate across the floor of the

House, because that is democracy.

Anyway,

I digress. What I would say is I think that this is a motion that's going to be

passed unanimously. I think it's something that we'll have some debate on the

IAC. I know Members on the other side have their questions about it, and that's

fine, but I'd like to think that the process has worked. I'd like to think that

the process has been successful. I'd like to think that our agencies, boards and

commissions have been populated by qualified people. The reason that that is, is

because we have these people doing that process and submitting names forward.

I want

to thank them for their service. I want to thank them for the hours and days and

weeks that they have put into this. None of these individuals are people that

are sitting around with a huge amount of free time. Just look at these people

and look at their résumés and look at their backgrounds. The fact is, they are

doing this for the good of the province. So I want to thank them for their

service. I know that we, as a government, thank them.

At this

point, I'll take my seat. I may get another opportunity to speak to this

resolution. I will turn it over to my colleagues to speak to this resolution

regarding the reappointment of these five tremendous individuals.

Thank

you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Conception Bay East - Bell Island.

MR. BRAZIL:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Like the

minister, I'll echo the same sentiments here that it's an honour to be able to

speak about the reappointment of five very dedicated, very competent and very

influential Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, particularly when they look at

trying to improve the quality of boards and agencies when it comes to specific

appointments.

We could

have debate about the initial process and the discussion around the bill that

was introduced. We cannot, and I refuse to argue about the quality of these

people, because they're second to none. They're people who I've had the

privilege to have worked with in different areas and different segments over my

career, and found all to be very credible, very competent and very committed to

improving the lives of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians.

They

were tasked with, at times, a very difficult undertaking to look at selecting

who would be the best individual or group of individuals to fill positions in

boards and agencies in Newfoundland and Labrador. Knowing that we have an

enormous amount of qualified and skilled individuals in our province, and

outside our province, because it wasn't only restricted to here, and weighing

the pros and cons to who would be the best to put forward. Their dedication –

and the minister had noted, these are not people who sit home idly and are not

engaged with other agencies or business endeavours, or organizational

responsibilities. These are people who take that responsibility very seriously,

but also take the responsibility they were asked and entrusted to do very

responsible.

They

have, as we've seen over the last number of years, put in play a number of very

important people who've made a major change and a major impact in the agencies

and boards they now sit on. In some cases they lead those boards. In some cases

they're part of a team effort. Each one of the people selected have gone through

a rigorous process where the Appointments Commission have looked at who they

feel would be the best and then forwarded those names for selection and

endorsement to those particular boards.

We've

talked about trying to have a more open and engaged process. I must say, having

these individuals have endeared to make that happen, and I've seen evidence that

it has happened. I have no qualms in acknowledging the people they put forward

are by far the best, through the process they've used, to determine who should

best lead an organization or a particular entity there to be able to benefit the

people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

I might

add too; on another note, I did have a discussion with one member of the

Commission at one point who encouraged me to reach out to the citizens that I

know, regardless of political backgrounds, social backgrounds, to be cognizant

of putting their names forward for particular boards that they felt they would

be qualified for. Because this individual, like all the members of the Committee

itself, felt the more engaged the general public are about what boards and

agencies are there and the role they can play as part of that, the more

beneficial it is to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. So making people

aware that they have an opportunity to put their names forward for a position on

one of the outstanding boards or commissions is a benefit to the people of

Newfoundland and Labrador.

I was

sort of taken back, but in a positive way, when I was approached at a civic

meeting saying we've got a lot of people in but there are certain areas we don't

have a lot of expertise, do you know people. He gave me some credit because of

my background as a civil servant and in different levels of government, that

there may be people in particular areas that I would be aware of who may not be

aware that they could put their names forward to be considered for appointment.

appreciated that, and I realized then that this just wasn't coming from this

individual. That was the philosophy of all five members of the Commission

itself. They were, no doubt, not only trying to select the right person but get

the information out there so there would be a bigger pool of individuals to be

able to choose from to ensure that we got the best person qualified to

particularly take on the task that they would be entrusted with. So I saw that

as a positive.

suspect so many of my colleagues here in the House of Assembly did reach out to

a number of people. As I looked at what boards and commissions were available, I

said here's a particular agency that you may be interested in serving. In most

cases it's from a volunteer point of view. In some cases there's some

remuneration that may be of benefit to somebody who has to give up time in

another agency or in their career or in their business, but to do something that

would be beneficial to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

So, I'd

never disagree with the fact that we have a good process here and we have the

right people making those decisions. I would have absolutely no qualms in being

able to extend them for another three years knowing that we have qualified

people committed to doing the best for the people of Newfoundland and Labrador;

who've been through this process and have made it work and are now cognizant of

not only continuing to do their job but trying to expand the scope by

encouraging more people to put their names forward to be available to provide

the services and the talents they have to better enhance the programs and

services that we offer in Newfoundland and Labrador.

Mr.

Speaker, I just want to note that we, in the Official Opposition, have ultimate

respect for the individuals here. We want to congratulate them. We want to thank

them for the work they've done. We obviously look forward to, once this is

passed, of endorsing them to continue for the next three years in doing a very

fluent, professional job to ensure the best people in Newfoundland and Labrador

are doing the best jobs they can to ensure the best services are provided to the

people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

We will

be supporting this, Mr. Speaker.

Thank

you very much.

MR. SPEAKER (Warr):

Thank you.

The hon.

the Member for St. John's Centre.

MS. ROGERS:

Thank you very much, Mr.

Speaker.

I would

like to start by saying thank you to Clyde Wells, a former premier, who is the

Chair of the Independent Appointments Commission; Zita Cobb, an incredible

leader in her community who has done so much for the province and she's one of

the heartbeats of our Province of Newfoundland and Labrador; Shannie Duff,

again, an incredible leader with so much experience and wisdom; Philip Earle,

again, a leader in commerce in our province; and, Derek Young. I would like to

thank them on behalf of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador for their

service to the people.

I have

spoken with a few of the commissioners on the Independent Appointments

Commission and have thanked them personally. No one, I don't think anyone really

anticipated the amount of work that was required of them because there was such

a backlog in appointments to many of our agencies, boards and commissions. Some

of the work that's required of people who are appointed to these positions also

is an incredible workload. So I would like to thank them.

Would

they have signed on if they had known how much work it would have been? The

people who serve on the Independent Appointments Commission, I believe they

would have, even knowing how much work it would have been. Because these are

people who are so incredibly, incredibly dedicated and committed to our

province, to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

I would

also like to thank Cathy Duke and Earle Ludlow, two folks who've just recently

been appointed to the Commission. They have gone in with their eyes wide open

knowing the work that has been done in the past few years by the current

members. The work they do is so important.

Some of

the agencies, boards and commissions may not seem as crucial as others, but

they're all important in their own way. We are so incredibly lucky to have

people of this calibre, people who love our province so much, willing to

dedicate their time and their experience to ensuring that we have robust boards,

robust – sometimes employees, sometimes volunteers on our agencies, boards and

commissions. They comb the province looking for expertise, for people with

passion and compassion, for people who are willing to give. It is not an easy

task that the Independent Appointments Commission has been given but an

important task.

I'd also

like to thank the people in the Public Service Commission and the teams that

work with them. Again, they're all part of making these important

recommendations.

I'd also

like to say, Mr. Speaker, it is disappointing – I have incredible regret on

behalf of the people of the province that there isn't an imperative to look at

gender and diversity in the makeup of our agencies, boards and commissions.

Although, we do know there have been a number of women who've been appointed to

some of these positions, and that's very important because there's such an

imbalance.

We've

had agencies, boards and commissions where there have been no women in some of

these senior positions at all. So we have seen an improvement in that, but

that's not legislated. I believe government missed the opportunity by not

ensuring that not only gender but diversity be one of the important guidelines

in assessing and analyzing, not only people who apply but the makeup of some of

the agencies, boards and commissions, because that's really important. When we

look at any agency, board and commission we should be constantly, not just

looking at who is there but who is not at the table. These are tables where

decisions are made, whether it be our Liquor Board, whether it be some of the

important ones around law, whether it be ones about health care. It's so

important that we stop constantly and say: Who is not at the table?

Are

there Indigenous people at the table? Are there newcomers at the table? Are

there people who aren't wealthy and who do not have a whole lot of formalized

education but an incredible amount of life skills and experience? Are there

people from rural Newfoundland and Labrador? Are there women? Are there people

who experience physical disabilities, who have some very important life

experience to bring to the table again where decisions are made?

Are

there people from the LGBTQ2-spirited community? We constantly have to look at

who is not at the table, again because these are tables where important

decisions are made – important decisions that affect the people of Newfoundland

and Labrador and that affect our future as well.

The

minister when he was speaking, when he was introducing this motion, was talking

about good democracy. Well, good democracy is only good when we ensure that it

is inclusive and that we have diversity at the table where decisions are being

made. Without it, we don't have good democracy.

We've

seen this over the years and – it's very similar to our Procurement Act, where

government had the opportunity to enshrine in legislation around procurement

that it would be inclusive, that we would look at the social benefits to ensure

that there was gender and diversity. So, it is based solely on merit, but I

would like to say that merit must include a diversity of life experience because

those who may be in a minority group, experience life very, very differently

than those of us who may be part of a majority group.

believe that's a shortcoming of the way that this Independent Appointments

Commission has been formulated. I believe that government still has the

opportunity to do something about that, that they can amend the legislation for

our Independent Appointments Commission. I would hope that government would do

that. That they would see fit to do that.

We need

legislation that directs this Independent Appointments Commission to purposely

consider gender and diversity in appointments, to purposely look at who is not

at the table where decisions are being made. Otherwise, it leaves it solely to

chance. All we have to do is look around in this House of Assembly and see that

we have less than 25 per cent who are women. All we have to do is look at the

portraits on the walls of Speakers. They are all men. There are no women and

there is also no diversity.

So, Mr.

Speaker, we can't leave it to chance. We are lucky that many of the appointments

have also included women in the past while, but we can't base it on luck alone.

There has to be weight behind legislation that directs the Independent

Appointments Commission to look at gender and to look at diversity.

It's the

only way we can make good, solid decisions if we have that diversity around the

table where those decisions are made. Without it, we are impoverished. Why

government wouldn't see that, why government wouldn't do that is beyond me. It

would make the Independent Appointments Commission's directives more robust,

more inclusive, always leading to better decision-making, to more inclusive

decision-making, and we've seen that the world over. That's the direction that

the United Nations has been going in in some of their appointments as well.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

MS. ROGERS:

They see the need for

legislated directives for purposeful inclusion of gender and diversity.

Thank

you very much, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for Mount

Pearl - Southlands.

MR. LANE:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I'm just

going to take a couple of minutes to speak to this resolution, or motion,

basically reappointing members of the Independent Appointments Commission for an

additional three years. I'm not going to repeat everything that's been said

about these individuals. Obviously, they're very qualified individuals; nobody

could argue that. Like other Members, I want to thank these people for giving up

their very valuable time to serve on this commission and to take on another

three years, because I'm sure there are a lot of other things that these

individuals could be doing with their time.

I know

there are a lot of people that have been appointed to different agencies, boards

and commissions. An awful lot has gone through this Independent Appointments

Commission, and probably it's a much loftier task than perhaps these individuals

thought from the beginning, because there were so many positions to fill. But

from what I can see, at least, they've done a good job. The appointments that

have been made, I certainly haven't had any issue with any of the people that

they have selected. So I think they've done a good job, and I thank them for

their service.

I would

say, Mr. Speaker, that outside of agencies, boards and commissions, I would like

to see government consider at some point looking at other positions that do not

fall within the category of agencies, boards and commissions, to see that also

go through an independent process. Because certainly we've seen examples where

individuals who perhaps had connections to various parties and so on – and I'm

not just talking about this government, past governments as well. Some of the

examples have been pretty blatant, actually, over the years, where people have

been appointed to roles outside of agencies, boards and commissions that people

would argue were absolutely 100 per cent political in nature.

I think

that we would be doing a great service to the people of Newfoundland and

Labrador if we were to expand the scope. If that meant expanding the number of

members on the Independent Appointments Commission in order to accommodate that,

so be it. But to be able to expand it so that persons in other government

positions, whether they be ADMs and so on, would also be merit-based, as opposed

to political stripe and affiliation and so on. So that's something that I would

like to see.

The

other thing that I think is important to mention, I have mentioned this before,

because it's been brought to my attention quite recently, actually, by one

constituent, is while it's fine that we're trying to take politics out of

appointments and so on, we still have a system that has been occurring for a

long, long time – still exists today – with this whole idea of emergency hires

and temporary positions and emergency hires within government where people don't

have to go through the Public Service Commission, that they can be hired

directly by the departments.

There

are a lot of people who would argue that there are people that are getting in

through the backdoor on these 10-week emergency hires, getting in through the

backdoor because of who you know and politics and everything else, and once they

get in as a temporary position, then they apply for permanent. Once you're in

the door, then you can apply for permanent positions within the public service.

Sometimes people go in for 10 weeks, supposedly, or 13 weeks, I should say, and

then they get extended and then they get extended again and they get extended

again and so on. There are people who went into the system that have been there

for years that have continued to be extended. So it's basically a backdoor way

of hiring friends and connections of, whether it be people associated to

political parties, or whether it be people who are friends of people that are

managing departments and so on. So that is another loophole.

I'm sort

of drifting a little from this, but it still is talking about people working for

government. That is something that continues to happen. It's something that's

been brought to my attention on a number of occasions, and, like I said,

recently by a constituent of mine who was impacted by that. So it's something

that government needs to consider. If we're going to have emergency hires, 13

weeks, that's what it's supposed to be for. If you know it's going to be

extended, if you know it's going to be permanent positions, then make it

permanent positions. If you know it's going to be beyond 13 weeks, go to through

the Public Service Commission like everybody else.

Other

than that, Mr. Speaker, as I said, getting back to the intention of what we're

doing here, I certainly have no problem whatsoever in supporting these

individuals to be reappointed to the Independent Appointments Commission. I

think that the Independent Appointments Commission was a good idea, albeit I

know that it's been said – and it's legit – that they can select three names and

the minister need not agree with any of them. They could just simply say, no, we

don't want any of those people, I got someone I want. The minister could do

that. I've heard that. That could legitimately happen under the Independent

Appointments Commission, the way it works, and we wouldn't be any the wiser.

However,

I will say this in defence of that argument, that I really believe – and I truly

do believe this – that looking at the individuals on this list, and even the

chair himself, I'm sure that if these people were taking the time, going through

all this work, recommending people, and the government just decided to throw out

the recommendations and do what they wanted anyway, I would say that this

Independent Appointments Commission, they'd just all fold. They'd just leave en

masse. They'd say goodbye, we're not going to be part of this. I know I wouldn't

be part of it if that was happening.

So,

while, technically, the loophole is there, I really don't believe that that's

being used. I really believe that the people they are recommending are the

people who are getting appointed to these positions. As I said, looking at the

appointments that I've been aware of over the last number of years, three years

or so since the IAC was created, I really don't have any problem with anything

that I've seen. I think they've done a good job. I think the process has worked

and, like I said, I'm glad to support these individuals moving forward for

another three years; glad, actually, that they're willing to give up their time

to do it because, as I said, I'm sure there are many other things that they

could be doing with their time.

They're

not getting any big – I don't think they're getting paid at all, actually. I

could be corrected. No, they're not getting paid at all. Maybe they get a per

diem or something if they go to a meeting or whatever, some expenses, but

they're not getting paid to do this.

These

are all very capable people. They could be taking the time that they're doing

this – because they're professional people – and making a heck of a lot of

money. So in that sense, they're probably losing on the opportunity to make

money to be doing this.

So, good

on them for doing it and I support it 100 per cent.

Thank

you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER:

Thank you.

The hon.

the Government House Leader.

MR. A. PARSONS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I'm

happy to stand up and, I guess, conclude the resolution that's been entered. I

appreciate what appears to be unanimous support from colleagues from both sides

of the House. I think that speaks to the quality of the individuals that are

being mentioned here.

I did

appreciate the comments from my colleague from St. John's Centre when she talked

about the new members that are coming in who, I think, also merit the same

positive response as the five that are here.

I think

this was a good debate in the sense that people can question the process. They

have thoughts, concerns, issues, and that's good, but nobody questioned the

individuals and the amount of work that they put in.

I will

speak to the point brought up by the Member for Mount Pearl - Southlands, he

mentioned the theoretical loophole. What I can say is two things. One, I do

believe in the legislation there's a clause that states that if that happened

there would have to be a report filed in the House, and that has not been done.

So that confirms what your belief is, which that has not happened.

Again,

while I don't have any proof of what the Member is saying in terms of would

these members stand for that? What I can say is I do share his sentiments in

that these individuals give a significant amount of time and effort and if they

believe that that work was not being heeded or listened to, then I'm sure they

could find other endeavours that maybe take less time and pay more money.

They are

doing this just out of their love for their province. They would all say that

this province has given a lot to them. I can say that they've certainly given a

lot to their province.

closing, Mr. Speaker, I look forward to the support of this motion. I appreciate

the opportunity to speak to this bill or to build the IAC again and to speak to

these five individuals. I want to thank them for their past service, for their

current service and for their future service.

Thank

you very much.

MR. SPEAKER:

Thank you.

Is the

House ready for the question?

Is it

the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

All

those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

MR. SPEAKER:

All those against, 'nay.'

The

motion is carried.

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Government House

Leader.

MR. A. PARSONS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I'd like

to now call from the Order Paper, Motion 6, and I would move, seconded by the

Minister of Natural Resources:

WHEREAS

section 3 of the

Citizens' Representative Act provides that the Citizens'

Representative is to be appointed by the Lieutenant-Governor in Council on a

resolution of the House of Assembly;

NOW

THEREFORE

BE IT RESOLVED that Mr. Bradley Moss is to be appointed at the

Citizens' Representative effective May 1, 2019.

Mr.

Speaker, I'd like to stand up in support of this motion and this resolution,

which will be debated by Members from all side of the House.

Perhaps

the first thing I can do is talk a little bit about the Citizens'

Representative, which is – some may know and some may not – an independent

statutory office of this House, which means that, again, it's independent of

government. It is not something that government tells these individuals what to

do. We have a number of statutory offices. It's created by legislation and

supported by the House of Assembly.

The best

way for me to describe the Office of the Citizens' Representative is to refer

directly to their website. They have a great website, very informative, and if

you were look at it right under the What We Do section: “The Office of the

Citizens' Representative provides a province-wide ombudsman service. It was

opened in 2002 and is an independent office of the House of Assembly.

“The

primary work of the Citizens' Representative is to accept complaints from

citizens who feel they have been treated unfairly with respect to their contact

with government offices and agencies. The Citizens' Representative and his staff

will attempt to mediate citizens' complaints and if this is not possible, will

undertake an impartial and unbiased investigation. If the complaint cannot be

resolved through the investigation, an investigation report is generated and

recommendations can be made to the House of Assembly.

“The

Office … can also undertake complaints that study how governmental policies,

procedures, and actions can affect a large number of people. These are called

systemic complaints and can result in recommendations that have a much broader

impact than those flowing from individual complaints.”

It goes

on. It talks about who they can investigate, which is: the House or a committee;

Cabinet; Executive Council; a court, judge or JP; an arbitrator; decisions under

tribunals, something that the Child and Youth Advocate – a problem that they

don't have the power to deal with; government departments, and the list goes on.

If you

look at the website, just right here it has the boards, agencies and commissions

that can be investigated. It's a substantive list and quite comprehensive. For

those that may be tuned in to this and may be, I guess, inquisitive of what the

Citizens' Rep does, they have a great website that I would advise people to go

and check out. It lays out who they are. The who, what, where, when and why,

basically, is what they lay out.

So, this

is an important office, and I guess before moving on to the purpose of this

motion, which is to discuss the new Citizens' Representative to be voted on, I'd

like to take just a moment to recognize and thank the current Citizens'

Representative who is about to retire from this position after – I might get the

time wrong, I think it's at least 12 years. He did two six-year terms, and, in

fact, agreed to stay in the position while this process was underway. And it was

a rigorous process that was undertaken by the Public Service Commission to

ensure that these names came forward.

Barry

Fleming, QC, has a wonderful resume and someone who's been doing this job. I've

had an opportunity to chat with him back when I was in Opposition, while I was

in government, about the work he's done. In fact, the department in which I am

now part of is a department that he's had an opportunity to do work on. Because

I would suggest that the main source of complaints that the Citizens'

Representative receives is actually from the district, I think, formally known

as Signal Hill - Quidi Vidi, but Her Majesty's Penitentiary.

Every

year there's a report comes out and lists the complaints, list the district, the

number of complaints. That district, you'll see, it looks startling the first

time you see it, the shear number of complaints that come. So, again, I've

spoken to him, and a lot of complaints about systemic issues within Justice,

within Corrections. And that's one of the things we have discussed.

I want

to thank Mr. Fleming, QC, for his service. I'm sure he's not retiring from work.

He still has a lot to give, I think, and I'm sure there are a lot of

organizations and people that would love to have the opportunity to have him and

his service. But, I can tell you, this House of Assembly should be thankful for

the work he has done for this province over the last – over the decade.

So, I

want to thank Mr. Fleming. What I can say is that the new individual, Mr.

Bradley Moss, spoke very highly of Mr. Fleming during this process in his

application. He speaks quite highly of Mr. Fleming, which I think is a testament

to the relationships. Why the Citizens' Representative Office works well is

because, obviously, there's a very congenial relationship there between

co-workers, and when you have someone speaking highly of the person they're

following, I think it speaks well to both of them. So I want to thank him.

Now,

moving forward. Again, we'll have an opportunity – Members on the other side

will have a chance to speak to this, and I'll have an opportunity to speak again

at the conclusion of this.

The name

we are putting forward is Mr. Bradley J. Moss, who is a resident of the area. I

think the big thing when you look at Mr. Moss' résumé, I think the big thing

that stands out is since 2008 he has been the Assistant Citizens'

Representative. So this is an individual that brings over a decade of experience

in the very field in which he is hoping to be promoted. I think that speaks to –

in any organization, some continuity or institutional knowledge is a good thing.

I look at, just when you look at a government department and when new people

come in. That's why it's been so important.

I just

look at mine where we've had this continuity of knowledge that you always want

to maintain as departments evolve and grow and mature. This is the same thing

with this office. This is an important office and they've got a great staff.

Having that amount of experience and background I think will serve Mr. Moss

well, will serve the office well, will serve this House well, and will serve

people in this province well.

It is an

important job to take. When you read the description that I listed out here

talking about citizens who feel they have been treated unfairly, I can tell you,

that's something that all of us as Members have experience in, is hearing from

constituents and citizens who feel they have been treated unfairly. And

sometimes – I can say, this is just my own experience. Sometimes it's not about

the validation or the confirmation of an unfairness happening. Sometimes it's

feeling that they have been listened to, that they have been heard. So in this

case I think that office is important.

In some

cases the complaint is not founded, but it's knowing that the complaint is

listened to and looked in to. That is important I think to people as well.

Again, it doesn't apply to everybody, but just listening to some of my

constituents when they talk about various issues, to say, look, I know that

maybe nothing can be done. I know maybe this cannot be fixed, but I appreciate

the fact that I had an opportunity for somebody to listen to me. I think we all

can say that for ourselves, we want to feel listened to. So, certainly I think

this gentleman, Mr. Moss, brings with him an ability to listen.

When you

look at the other things that come with his skill set that will be important,

the fact is he has the experience and objectively, an independently mediating

and formally investigating and reporting on thousands of individual citizen

complaints; experience in MHA and Cabinet referrals; investigations under the

two provincial public interest disclosure programs; policy development, systemic

investigations, public education and annual reporting.

Annual

reporting is an important thing, because every year there is a report tabled in

this House outlining what the Citizens' Representative has done. I can tell you

that I read every single one of them because I think – and, again, I hope this

continues. I enjoy the case descriptions that Mr. Fleming and his team have put

out there which often make these topics more interesting to read, because it's

something that we want.

We want

to read these. We want to know what's going on, especially – again, it doesn't

just have to relate to a department or something I'm familiar with. I read all

of them because I think it's good to see what's going on. In terms of what the

complaint is, was there something that could be fixed? In some cases it doesn't

take much to fix the issue. It might take a conversation, it might take a

directive, who knows. There are a range of things that can happen.

That's

the other thing that I think Mr. Moss and his team will bring is an ability to

look at investigations and know there are a range of measures and that it's not

a blunt force that needs to be applied in every case. Sometimes there's a

deafness, there's a complexity and there has to be an ability to look at each

one and figure out, how do we approach this situation?

The fact

the recognition stated here in the – I guess the

Citizen's Representative Act , when we talk about the fact that I

might have a complaint and it's fine and dandy for me to bring that forward

individually, but you might have the same complaint and my friend might have the

same complaint, then it becomes a systemic complaint. The fact is when we look

at systemic issues within our society, within our democracy, within our

departments, within government, these are some things that if more than one

person is feeling the issue, then we should have a look at that.

I think

this individual is going to bring the skill set necessary to continue the great

work of the Citizens' Representative. I think it's someone that we will all have

trust in, knowing that this work is going to get done, and all the people that

we represent should have trust and faith in them.

I will

point out, it's my understanding that this appointment comes with a six-year

term, which I think is important to note. It's six years and has the ability to

be reappointed after the conclusion of six years. This would take effect on May

1, if it were to become successful.

Having

spoken to Mr. Moss, I can tell you I have full faith in his ability to come in

and take what is an office that is working well and continue that. Nobody wants

to see a disruption there, especially when you have a change at the top of

somebody who has been doing the job so long, and that's why I have faith in this

individual.

Now,

what I can say through this process is I want to thank all those individuals

that expressed their interest in this position. I have to tell you it gives one

hope knowing that there are individuals out there, multiple individuals with

amazing skill sets, with backgrounds, with experience that were looking to do

this job. It gives you hope knowing that there's a level of qualified, capable,

talented people, with a desire to do this work. That was what makes it tough.

But, I can tell you, just knowing that I think is a positive thing and I want to

thank those individuals.

We have

a lot of talented people in this province, both within government and out in the

private sector. Knowing that these people want to give their talents to the

citizens surrounding them, I think it says something good about this province

and about the direction that we are going in.

On that

note, I will say that just going back to Mr. Moss – and actually, I misspoke

earlier. He's been the Assistant Citizen's Rep since 2008, but actually worked

as a senior investigator in that office starting in 2006. So, he's actually got

more experience in that office.

To go

backwards, 2002 to 2006, he was actually investigator and research specialist

and, before that, actually worked in a law firm in this city. So, when you look

at the background, the education here, this is someone who has given the

majority of their professional career to this work, and I think that speaks to

the experience that's necessary to do a good job.

I can

speak on behalf of my colleagues here that we will be wholeheartedly supporting

this. Pending a successful vote on this resolution, we want to wish our best to

Mr. Moss as he takes this position on May 1.

At that

point right now, I guess I would take my seat and allow my colleagues to speak

to this resolution.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

Thank you.

The hon.

the Member for Conception Bay East - Bell Island.

MR. BRAZIL:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It's

indeed an honour to stand as we talk about the new appointment for the new

Citizens' Rep. But before we talk about the new appointment I, like the

minister, want to echo the great acknowledgement of the former, or, I guess, the

still present Citizens' Representative who will finish in the next coming weeks,

Mr. Barry Fleming.

I've had

the privilege over the last number of years of working with him on a couple of

situations relevant to my constituents, and found him to be extremely

professional, extremely engaging, extremely sympathetic. Every constituent that

I've referred to him have always came back and said he was very open and very

honest and very professional. His office is run professionally, all the staff

there.

That's a

testament to him to as the leader, and a testament to his commitment to ensuring

that people who may need advice, who may need someone to advocate on their

behalf, who may feel that there's nowhere else to turn to get some guidance can

engage those individuals, work with them, hopefully find solutions; but, in some

cases, acknowledge that the process has been followed and has been followed

professionally, and here are the outcomes.

So I

found Mr. Fleming to embody all the positive things that you would want for

someone to be a representative for people who may have some challenges when it

comes to feeling that they're getting justice in our society. So to him, on

behalf of the Official Opposition, we want to say congratulations on your

retirement, wish him well in the future, but thank you for his dedication to the

people of Newfoundland and Labrador, and his professionalism in ensuring that

people had a representative who would speak on their behalf and ensure no stone

was unturned so they could indeed have the best quality of services that they

were entitled to.

We all

want to acknowledge him being able to do that and provide that service. I do get

to see him regularly in a social setting and get to see his professional side

and his social side, but the fact that he still has a good spirit, he's a very

caring individual and very competent in everything he does.

As we

move forward on this motion now, and we've talked earlier about the Appointments

Commission and the process here, I also want to note and echo what the minister

had said. You want to thank everybody who showed an interest in this position,

because it's a unique position and it's a unique skill set that you would need

to be able to fill that particular mandate, and ensure that the services you're

providing are in line with the expectation of the clientele that are going to be

coming to you for those services.

You've

got to be cognizant of the fact you're going to hear all kinds of scenarios,

you're going to probably see some stuff that is heart-wrenching, but you have to

keep an objective, open mind. You've got to be open to the investigative

processes that best fit the ability and the need to get the information that's

relevant so that decisions can be made, recommendations can be made.

Contrary

to popular belief, we receive a multitude of reports weekly, monthly,

particularly yearly, from different agencies and organizations, a number within

the province, some outside. I would note the Citizens' Rep's report is one that

I take and I do read more diligently than I do in some other ones.

Unfortunately, I'm not a big catcher of reading long documents. I want to get to

the executive

summary to get an understanding, but I do admit the reports that

the former Citizens' Rep had sent are very explicit, they're to the point, they

outline the work that's been done, what they've been engaged in, their

recommendations as part of their process, so I found that to be engaging,

getting an understanding of the role and responsibility that they play to

service the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, and, in some cases, the unique

situations that citizens of our province find themselves in that they do need an

advocate.

In this

case, the Citizens' Rep can go do some investigative work, can sit and outline

the concerns of individuals and, in a number of cases, make some recommendations

of what should be done to address the particular challenge or issue that a

person is facing.

So, the

office itself, as we know, has been very professionally run. It serves an

extremely positive and necessary service. We've had, at the helm, a very

competent, professional, accepted leader. I'm now very confident to say that the

next stage and the next phase of the Citizens' Rep's office will have the same

level of professionalism, dedication and commitment. We have that in the notice

of the individual who has been recommended and put forward for our discussion

and acknowledgement here and passing in this House of Assembly, and that being

Mr. Bradley Moss.

As the

minister outlined, his resume speaks for itself. Nearly two decades of being

dedicated to work, particularly around servicing people, particularly around

doing proper research, proper investigation and to being able to represent

people at this level. Keeping in mind he'd worked in the office, has been the

Deputy Citizens' Rep so has a full understanding of the roles and

responsibilities and, potentially, any necessary changes on a go-forward basis

as society changes and some of the nuances and some of the challenges that may

be put forward, because he's seen what's gone on in the past, what's worked,

probably what's gone on in the past and hasn't worked, what's presently working

and what may need to be addressed in the future, and that could be around

technology, it could be around the scope of the jurisdiction or the

investigations that the Citizens' Rep's division and its office may take into

account. Having that expertise there is very important.

Now,

that doesn't diminish from all the other candidates who put their name forward,

their expertise and their specialities and what they could bring to the office

itself, but I'm confident that the decision made here was the right one. He will

obviously keep the same level of professionalism we always had, the credibility

there and address any new changes that may be necessary to keep the flow of the

respect and the access that the citizens would have to ensure that the Citizens'

Rep can represent them in the proper manner.

I'm

fortunate enough that Mr. Moss is from my district. I've personally known him

for the last six or seven years. I've known him from a leadership point of view

in a number of not-for-profit, community-based organizations that he's a leader

in. That itself speaks volumes as to his professionalism, his capabilities and

his commitment to the community, which is the same I know he reflects to his job

and to this province.

When I

heard that he was interested in this position, I saw that as a positive, and

knowing he had been working in the office that he would be a great fit. The fact

that he's been selected, obviously, to me, just dictates people saw the same

things that I've seen in him in the last six or seven years about leadership,

dedication, professionalism. No doubt they saw it in his job performance as the

deputy or the Citizens' Rep within the office itself.

I've

seen him from a volunteer basis take time off work at his own cost and travel to

some of the less advantaged countries to help out and partner with organizations

like Team Broken Earth and go down on a volunteer basis to help service people

from a medical point of view. That's, again, a testament to him as an

individual, but also about his understanding of the needs of individuals.

When you

take that personal philosophy, it's no doubt it can only be a positive and

another asset when you're putting somebody in a position as a Citizens' Rep to

represent people and do proper due diligence in an investigative manner, to get

to the root of whatever an issue may be and to be able to support an individual

in moving whatever the scenario may be forward.

Mr. Moss

is very active in the community. His children, he's instilled, him and his wife,

into them, they're very active in the community, very socially conscious and

very open to ensure justice is done. That's what I see as the Citizens' Rep's

responsibility. It's about proactively ensuring that justice is available for

all. It comes in different forms. While it's not directly in our legal system,

it is attached because it's about proper investigations, it's about

representation, it's about weighing the evidence, and then it's about making a

statement through recommendations and a report as to what has occurred, what

should've happened, what was the causes, if there indeed is an alternative to

approach this and what should be the positive outcome.

So,

we've got three key things going here. We've got the former Citizens' Rep who's

leaving, who's added great credibility, has put in play a very stable

organization that has been accepted and noted within the communities. We now

have a new Citizens' Rep who will come in, who'll take over, who's very

competent and very professional in the same manner, who no doubt was mentored by

the former Citizens' Rep, but has an experienced background, particularly in

that office.

So, the

transition time is very minimal or non-existent when it comes to being able to

ensure that continuity moves forward and that there's no downtime in the scope

of work that's being done and the professionalism that's necessary there. Again,

from his personal background, knowing him, he adds another dimension. He adds

sympathy, he adds empathy, he adds compassion, but he adds all of that in a

professional manner.

Mr.

Speaker, we here in the Opposition, and me personally, wholeheartedly support

the endorsement and the motion put forward that Mr. Bradley Moss would be

appointed as the Citizens' Rep, taking his office May 1 of this year and

continuing for the next six years and, hopefully, from there on, for another

term as the Citizens' Rep.

On that

note I'll sit, and thank, once again, Mr. Fleming, but also congratulate Mr.

Moss.

Thank

you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER:

Thank you.

The hon.

the Member for St. John's East - Quidi Vidi.

MS. MICHAEL:

Thank you very much, Mr.

Speaker.

I'm

pleased to stand this morning and speak to this motion to put in place Mr.

Bradley Moss as the new Citizens' Representative beginning on May 1 of this

year.

As the

House Leader did, and as my colleague for Conception Bay East - Bell Island did,

I would like first to thank Mr. Barry Fleming for the wonderful job that he's

done since 2006. Sort of a coincidence to note that I came into this House in

November 2006; I think he became Citizens' Representative in December of 2006.

So we've been around together the same time and are retiring from this House of

Assembly, and from his position, at the same time.

I can

certainly speak to the work of Mr. Barry Fleming, and have always been immensely

impressed with his knowledge, with his compassion, with his ability to listen

and with the leadership that he gave in the Citizens' Rep's office.

As a

Member of the Management Commission, over the years, of course, besides dealing

with various offices and agencies of the government as an MHA, we also get to

deal with the Officers when it comes to budget time, for example, and we get to

talk to, and got to talk to Mr. Fleming at least once a year with regard to the

budget. That meant talking about the programming and how things were going

inside of his office. So I feel that I did get to know Mr. Fleming.

There

were times over those years that Mr. Moss came with Mr. Fleming to the meeting,

so I certainly got to have a sense of him, as well. I feel very good, actually,

that the person replacing Mr. Fleming will be somebody who works side by side

with him, and I have confidence would continue the kind of values and principles

that were obvious in Mr. Fleming.

I'm

particularly interested and happy because of work that we've done recently on

the Privileges and Elections Committee. I know we're not talking about that work

specifically, but one of the things that the Citizens' Rep office does is take

the responsibility for the whistle-blower piece of the act of the House of

Assembly integrity and accountability act. In that, there is a whole

section on

whistle-blowing, and it is the Citizens' Rep who has the responsibility for

investigating whenever a whistle-blower comes to him under the act that governs

us here in the House of Assembly.

It is

because the Citizens' Rep office has that responsibility, and because it has

that experience, which is a very important experience and very important

responsibility to listen to whistle-blowers, that when we in the Privileges and

Elections Committee were looking at the harassment-free workplace specific to

the Legislature, and we looked at what department or who or where should

responsibility for investigations into complaints under a policy that we were

putting together, it was logical to look at the Citizens' Representative's

office.

Number

one, because they already understand very well the responsibilities of MHAs

under our act and because they do the investigations under the whistle-blower

legislation, they have tremendous experience in dealing with the confidential

nature of complaints and dealing with the complexity of complaints against MHAs,

for example, and MHAs to MHAs, or MHAs with staff. So they certainly have an

experience that's extremely important to another piece of work that I've been

involved with in this House, and it has been a privilege, actually, for me to

have been involved with that piece of work.

I have

great confidence that Bradley Moss, because of his years of experience, over 10

years of experience working with Barry Fleming, and because of his understanding

of the whistle-blower legislation and their responsibility already to deal with

complaints of that nature, that I feel confident that he will ensure that our

confidence in the Citizens' Rep's office will be well founded when it comes to –

which we've done – recommending to this House that the Citizens' Rep be the

office that deals with complaints under the policy that the Committee has

recommended.

Unfortunately, we have not dealt with that resolution yet in this House. If

things go the way it seems they may be going today, I probably won't be around

for the final discussion. But I have absolutely no doubt in mind, and especially

with Mr. Moss moving into this position, that we have been wise in recommending

that complaints under the policy that we're recommending in the Privileges and

Elections Committee should be dealt with under the Citizens' Representative's

office.

So,

having said that, I'm delighted that – I have no idea, of course, who else

applied for the position, and I'm sure they all were good applicants, but I have

no doubt that the choice of Mr. Moss as the person who's worked closely with

Barry Fleming for over 10 years, as the person who has been so intimately

involved with the work of the Office of the Citizens' Rep, should now be the

person who heads it. I wish him and the staff all the best, as I also wish Mr.

Fleming a good retirement in whatever he chooses to do.

Thank

you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

Thank you.

The hon.

the Member for Mount Pearl - Southlands.

MR. LANE:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am

just going to take a couple of moments to speak to this motion. This one here is

about appointing a new Citizens' Rep. I'm not going to get into all the details

that everyone else has gotten into, but I do want to reiterate the point to

thank Mr. Fleming for his years of service in that position. I think that, from

my observations at least, it seems to me that he did a really good job, and I

thank him for that. I wish him the best in his retirement or whatever he should

endeavour to do after this.

The

individual, Mr. Moss, who is being recommended here for this position – first of

all, I would say that the position would've went through the Independent

Appointments Commission. We already talked about that resolution, and the

individuals being reappointed there. So I guess in line with the fact that we've

all felt that we have the utmost confidence in the individuals on the

Independent Appointments Commission, then obviously we would have the utmost

confidence in this recommendation.

I don't

know Mr. Moss, but listening to the Government House Leader, the Minister of

Justice, reading out some of his résumé, it would certainly seem to me that he

is absolutely qualified to do the position. As has been said, he served as the

Assistant Citizens' Representative, if you will. I'm not sure if it was

assistant or deputy, whatever it's called, but 2i/c, we'll say, to the Citizens'

Rep for a number of years. He has, sounds like, extensive background in doing

investigations and so on. He's a lawyer. So again, it would seem to me, not

knowing the man personally, not interviewing him, not seeing his full résumé, it

would seem to me that he's definitely the right person for the job and I'll

obviously be supporting it.

I think

it's important to note the importance of this office to the people of

Newfoundland and Labrador. We have a number of statutory positions, officers,

that report to the House of Assembly, whether it be the Auditor General, the

Commissioner for Legislative Standards, who's also the Chief Electoral Officer,

the Child and Youth Advocate and of course the Citizens' Rep. This office does

perform a very significant role, very important role for the people. And I've

actually had the occasion to refer a number of people to the Citizens' Rep,

because a lot of times what happens, of course, is you might get a constituent

that comes to you with an issue where they felt they were treated unjustly or

unfairly by government officials, whether it be in dealing with an agency,

board, commission, or whether it be dealing with core government itself.

Sometimes the issues they may raise may be around how they were treated.

Sometimes the issues raised may be around how the individual they were dealing

with, or the department they were dealing with, how they dealt with a certain

matter. It could be the fact that they felt that things were delayed beyond what

would be considered reasonable. It could be an issue around

interpretation of

legislation or

interpretation of government policy, if you will. It could be

around the fact that they felt the policy itself was unjust. I've certainly had

situations, as I said, where I've referred people to the Citizens' Rep, not

necessarily because the department that they were dealing with wasn't doing

their job, I'll say, but it could be because they're working within the confines

of policies which arguably, in itself, were unjust policies.

We look

no further to the change that was announced yesterday, for example, with

children and the clawback, children whose families are on income support. If

someone was receiving alimony, maintenance, whatever, for that child, that was

being counted as income against receiving income support. That was a policy of

government, if you will, that they were doing that. Nobody in the department was

necessarily doing anything wrong, they were only following the policies that

existed, but it was an unfair, was an unjust policy, and that ended up going

through a third party. I can't remember if it was the Citizens' Rep or if it was

the Child and Youth Advocate's office; it was one or the other. It was the Child

and Youth Advocate.

I'm

actually very familiar with that particular case that led to this actually

happening, because I spoke to that family. That was the Child and Youth

Advocate. They had exhausted the avenues available through the government

department, the individuals were simply following the policies as they existed,

and by being able to go through the Child and Youth Advocate, who could do an

investigation and make recommendations to the department to say, listen, guys,

this is an oversight, or this is something that maybe you never thought of. This

policy is just simply unfair, unjust, it needs to be changed. To government's

credit, they changed it. That was the Child and Youth Advocate.

The same

thing happens on a continuous basis with the Citizens' Rep. As I said, I have

put in complaints on behalf, I've guided constituents and people to the

Citizens' Rep's office. I've actually assisted constituents with filing

complaints to the Citizens' Rep office on any number of issues, whereby you took

the issue that you had to the department, to the board, to the agency and you

exhausted all attempts to get it resolved.

Sometimes you may go to the minister's office and still didn't work out.

Sometimes it could be an appeal process, it still didn't work out. If, at the

end of the day, after you've done all that and you felt that the decision was

unjust or the policy itself was an unjust policy, then you always have that

avenue. That independent avenue to go to where this government policy could be

investigated and recommendations made to government, that maybe you may want to

have a look at this and change this, because there's no justice in what's being

done here.

Like I

said, it's a very, very important avenue for citizens to have to be able to go

to this statutory office, this independent office. Obviously, then because of

that, it's critical that the individuals in that office – because there's

obviously not – when we talk about Citizens' Rep, it's not just – yes, the

Citizens' Rep is one person, but they obviously have a staff, investigators and

other people who support the office.

It's

important to have a Citizens' Rep office that is responsive, that is qualified

and that is competent in doing the work. Obviously, that starts at the top with

the leadership being the Citizens' Rep, him or herself.

In this

case, as I said, it's gone through the IAC. There were a number of applicants.

This particular gentleman, by virtue of his qualifications, by virtue of his

experience in that actual office for a number of years, it was determined that

he was the best fit for the job.

certainly wish him all the best and I certainly look forward to – I want to say

I look forward to working with him. I hope I don't, in a sense, because I hope I

don't have any problems that I need to go to him, but should I need to go to him

on behalf of a constituent in the future, I'm glad that we'll have a good person

there to do that. I would look forward to working with him at that time.

Thank

you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER:

Thank you.

The hon.

the Government House Leader.

MR. A. PARSONS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I want

to thank my colleagues for their support of this resolution and support of the

naming of Mr. Bradley Moss as the new Citizens' Representative.

I won't

belabour the point. I think we know that we have a qualified, capable,

competent, experienced individual that's going to fill this important role. He

has big shoes to fill but we're quite confident that Mr. Moss is going to hit

the ground running and continue to do great work on behalf of that office for

the people of this province.

We look

forward to his appointment, which is effective May 1. We thank Mr. Fleming Q.C.,

for his work over the years.

On that

note, I will take my seat to allow for the vote on the resolution.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

Thank you.

Is the

House ready for the question?

Is it

the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

All

those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

MR. SPEAKER:

All those against, 'nay.'

The

motion is carried.

The hon.

the Government House Leader.

MR. A. PARSONS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

At this

time, I would suggest that we recess until 2 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER:

It's been suggested that we

recess until 2 p.m. this afternoon, today being Private Members' Day.

This

House now stands in recess.

Recess

The

House resumed at 2 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Trimper):

Admit strangers, please.

Order,

please!

I'd like

to welcome the Members back for the afternoon part of this day's sitting.

Statements by

Members

MR. SPEAKER:

Today we will hear statements

by the hon. Members for the Districts of Ferryland, Placentia West - Bellevue,

and Mount Pearl - Southlands.

The hon.

the Member for Ferryland.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. HUTCHINGS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr.

Speaker, I rise in the hon. House today to congratulate a constituent of mine

from the district on receiving the Canada 150 Local Heroes Award. Michelle

O'Keefe, from Tors Cove, received her Canada 150 Local Heroes award on Monday,

December 17, at the Star of the Sea Hall in the Town of Holyrood, at the Local

Heroes Award Ceremony.

Michelle

was awarded a Senate of Canada 150th Anniversary Medal for her significant

contribution to her community. Michelle has played a leadership role in her

community and, as well, in the surrounding region. She serves and has served on

many different committees and groups in the region such as the Bay Bulls to

Bauline Athletic Association, the Tors Cove Hall Committee, and many other

committees and events she's been involved with.

Michelle's contribution of her time and dedication has played a major role in

bringing the community of Tors Cove and the surrounding area together. She has

taken great pride in her community and shows a great pride in everything she

does and is involved with.

I ask

all Members of this hon. House to join me in congratulating Michelle O'Keefe on

receipt of the Canada 150 Local Heroes Award.

Thank

you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Placentia West - Bellevue.

MR. BROWNE:

Mr.

Speaker, I rise today to recognize excellence in a field where success is often

dependent on your tenacity, drive and determination to match your clients'

needs.

Real estate is said to be a challenging business. It

takes a tough but special character to make a successful agent. It takes a

willingness to work days, evenings, weekends and holidays.

Such is the case for Darlene Bennett of Marystown, who

was just recently named the number one realtor in Canada for 3% Realty for the

first quarter of 2019. In 2015, she was named a Platinum Award winner, and

Executive Award winner in 2016, '17 and '18.

Darlene has been selling homes in and around Marystown

and on the Burin Peninsula since 2012, having sold over 160 listings. She is

known as someone who gets the job done. In a competitive business, receiving

this distinction as the top in Canada is no easy feat. It is a testament to

Darlene's work ethic and genuine desire to help her clients that makes this

recognition possible.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all hon. Members to join with me in

congratulating Darlene Bennett on being named the Top Realtor in Canada, and in

recognizing her business acumen for many, many more years to come.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR.

SPEAKER:

The

hon. the Member for Mount Pearl - Southlands.

MR.

LANE:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is my privilege to rise in this hon. House to offer

congratulations to a group of individuals who have made a significant

contribution to sport in my community.

Once again, this year's Mount Pearl Athletic Awards was

a tremendous success, which highlighted the achievements and emphasized the

important role that sport has played and continues to play in the development of

youth and adults alike within our great city.

There were a number of very worthy nominees again this

year nominated in five categories. Congratulations to this year's winners: Coach

of the Year, Margaret “Muggs” Tibbo of Pearlgate Track and Field; Peter

Halliday, Executive of the Year award winner; Perry Dalton of Mount

Pearl/Paradise Skating Club; Female Athlete of the Year, Chantal Barnes of

Pearlgate Track and Field; Male Athlete of the Year, Terry Ryan Jr. for his

accomplishments in ice and ball hockey; and, Team of the Year, the 2017-2018

Mark's Mount Pearl Junior Blades hockey team.

Mr. Speaker, I would ask all Members of this hon. House

to join me in congratulating these individuals on this significant

accomplishment and wish them all the very best in their future sporting

endeavours.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR.

SPEAKER:

Thank you.

Statements by Ministers.

Statements by Ministers

MR.

SPEAKER:

The

hon. the Minister of Children, Seniors and Social Development.

MS.

DEMPSTER:

Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, I rise in this hon. House today to

highlight our continued commitment to seniors through

Budget 2019 .

As our population continues to age, we are creating new

ways to ensure that residents can continue to be full and active

participants in their communities.

That's

why our government has allocated $270,000 in

Budget 2019 for the new Social

Inclusion Initiative.

This

funding will provide 50-Plus clubs with grants of up to $2,000. This money is to

be used for initiatives that help seniors participate in community events and

other activities that support healthy aging, and promote mental health and

well-being.

Mr.

Speaker, I would also like to assure our seniors that we have heard their

concerns about how the Muskrat Falls Project could cause their electricity bills

to increase substantially, and that is one of the reasons we introduced our rate

mitigation framework earlier this week.

This

plan will protect all residents, but most importantly, people who have low or

fixed incomes, from increases to electricity rates and taxes that would affect

the cost of living as a result of the Muskrat Falls Project.

These

actions are in addition to the many steps we've already taken to ensure seniors

have the supports and services they need to age with dignity while continuing to

be active and healthy contributors to their communities.

For

example, through Budget 2019 we will

continue to provide the Newfoundland and Labrador Seniors' Benefit, which

provides up to $1,313 annually to adults aged 65 years and older. We also

continue to provide the Newfoundland and Labrador Income Supplement – an annual

financial commitment that helps individuals living with low income to better

meet their needs. Combined, these programs provide $123 million to individuals

with low income.

Mr.

Speaker, just last month we awarded $300,000 through the new Community

Transportation Grants Program and I'm pleased to say this program will continue

in Budget 2019 . While the program

addresses barriers to accessible transportation for many different sectors of

our society, seniors will certainly benefit in a significant way.

Our

government will also continue to invest $95,000 annually for the Age-Friendly

Communities Program. Municipalities like Cormack, Gambo, Grand Falls-Windsor,

Isle aux Morts, New-West-Valley, Placentia, St. Lawrence and Summerford are also

some of the most recent to take advantage of this funding to undertake

assessments and develop initiatives to help make their communities more

age-friendly.

Mr.

Speaker, we have been able to accomplish all of this through our strong

collaborations with a number of valued community partners. I extend my sincere

appreciation to the Provincial Advisory Council on Aging and Seniors, Seniors

NL, the Newfoundland and Labrador 50-Plus Federation and the Seniors Coalition.

We look

forward to continuing to work with them, and of course with the Office of the

Seniors' Advocate, led by Dr. Suzanne Brake, who was appointed in 2017.

We all

appreciate how the seniors of our province have shaped this place we call home,

and we welcome their continued contributions in our communities.

I call

on all of my colleagues and all the residents of Newfoundland and Labrador to

show their support for the seniors of our province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Topsail - Paradise, and you have two minutes, Sir.

MR. DINN:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I'd like

to thank the Member opposite for an advance copy of her statement. I think we

all recognize the importance and the contributions of our 50-plus clubs and our

other age-friendly programs and organizations. In my own district alone, I had

the opportunity to attend many of the events of our seniors' programs and their

functions and I've witnessed first-hand the support, the fellowship, the

societal value of supporting our seniors.

It is

true that those on fixed and low incomes are impacted by the cost of living, and

many seniors continue to voice their concerns over the excessive taxation, the

lack of accessible transportation and obtaining dignified treatment in the

long-term care facilities. It is unfortunate that in

Budget 2019 the government has not addressed changes in personal

care home assessments, which has negatively impacted so many seniors and their

families in this province. My office also continues to receive calls from

seniors struggling to get enough home care hours to meet their basic needs.

Government must do more to address these very real needs of seniors who have

contributed to our society for a lifetime. They are not looking for a handout

but rather a hand up, and I will thank Dr. Suzanne Brake. Yesterday, she gave me

a nice update on the work she's doing and I see that's moving ahead. I look

forward to the final report.

Thank

you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

Thank you, Sir.

The hon.

the Member for St. John's Centre.

MS. ROGERS:

Mr. Speaker, I thank the

minister. We have the highest percentage of seniors on OAS and GIS, more and

more seniors are having to use the food banks – the minister knows that.

Today, a

senior in distress called me saying: Why didn't the government reinstate the

Adult Dental Program for seniors? I asked the same question. Our seniors cannot

afford dental care, which is crucial to their health – the minister knows that.

Every day I get seniors calling me, desperate for affordable and safe housing.

Many are couch-surfing – the minister knows that.

Why

didn't government increase the number of rent supps for seniors? The Seniors'

Benefit hasn't been raised since 2016, yet inflation has – the minister knows

that. The ceiling for eligibility for the 65Plus drug program is too low; many

seniors cannot afford their medications – the minister knows that.

Thank

you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

Thank you.

Further

statements by ministers?

The hon.

the Minister of Health and Community Services.

MR. HAGGIE:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise

in this hon. House to announce that a new mobile crisis response team has been

established, along with the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary, in Corner Brook,

and will be operational later this month.

The team

includes a mental health worker and a police officer who will work together to

respond to people in crisis.

Once

implemented, the Corner Brook team can be reached seven days a week from 10 a.m.

to 10 p.m., by calling either 911 or the 24-hour Provincial Mental Health Crisis

Line at 1-888-737-4668.

This

team is similar to those already in place in St. John's and Labrador West –

which, to date, have responded to over 1,800 calls for service.

Budget 2019 – Working towards

a brighter future

includes $914,000 to launch the Corner Brook team, and to establish teams in

Gander and Grand Falls-Windsor this summer, through a further partnership with

the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. Another mobile crisis response team will be

established this year in Happy Valley-Goose Bay.

Since

the release of Towards Recovery: The

Mental Health and Addictions Action Plan for Newfoundland and Labrador , we

are removing barriers to treatment, making it easier to access supports,

changing how services are delivered and working toward eliminating the stigma

associated with addiction and mental illness. Working closely with people with

lived experience and their families, our community partners and the regional

health authorities, we are making sure people get the appropriate treatment when

and where they need it.

Thank

you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

Thank you.

The hon.

the Member for Conception Bay East - Bell Island.

MR. BRAZIL:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I thank

the minister for an advance copy of his statement. Mr. Speaker, I'm pleased to

hear of the new mobile crisis response team that will be established in Corner

Brook.

Mental

health and addictions issues have touched the families of everyone in this

province, and people in crisis require additional supports and care. Providing

these additional supports is an important way to combat the stigma and reduce

harm in our communities. Let's work together in a collaborative way to provide

the needed supports the citizens of our province need and deserve.

Thank

you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

Thank you.

The hon.

the Member for St. John's Centre.

MS. ROGERS:

Mr. Speaker, I thank the

minister. We are seeing many significant improvements to our mental health and

addictions services, and I want to thank all those advocates and activists who

took

part in the process to help me push and call for the All-Party Committee on

Mental Health and Addictions. It is this kind of civil society action that can

result in systemic change.

I also

want to thank the staff of the Department of Health and Community Services,

especially Colleen Simms and her amazing team, who have been tasked with the

implementation of Towards Recovery ,

and all the front-line workers, both in the public sector and the non-profit

sector. There is still much more to do, but to all those involved, bravo.

Thank

you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

Thank you.

Further

statements by ministers?

Oral

Questions.

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Leader of the

Official Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. CROSBIE:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Yesterday, on the eve of an election, the government announced that it reported

a $1.92-billion surplus. We all agree this surplus is only a paper surplus

because of accounting rules.

I ask

the Premier: Did he pick April 1 to puff up the financial position of the

province in an election year?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER BALL:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Well, it

would not matter what date we picked. If you had read the information that has

been back and forth, many of us would have said that this would be done by March

31. Everyone was saying that, however, except for the Leader of the Opposition,

except for the Leader of the PC Party, because he was out telling people that we

could not get this done.

So, Mr.

Speaker, what he refers to as a paper surplus, like the Minister of Finance said

yesterday, we would've much preferred that this guaranteed revenue stream

would've been actually allocated over a period of years. But it was the people

in the Department of Finance and people that know this, they know the rules –

I'm surprised that the Leader of the Opposition, the Leader of the PC Party,

would not know these rules or have not checked them out, or today he's just

playing politics. These are the accounting rules that we had to abide by,

regardless of the date when this transfer was made.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

Thank you.

The hon.

the Leader of the Official Opposition.

MR. CROSBIE:

Mr. Speaker, the Board of

Trade observed yesterday that the accounting technique the Premier mentions has

a danger of creating a misperception in the public that we're actually in a

better fiscal situation than we are.

I ask

the Premier: Does he expect to return to balance if the budget misleads the

public as to our true fiscal picture?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER BALL:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

One of

the things that we've done when we inherited the finances of this province in

2015 is we made a commitment that we would never do what the previous

administration did, Mr. Speaker. They did not put out a mid-year update; they

did not provide an update on Muskrat Falls.

We, in

2016, the following year, brought in legislation to change that. That happened

in this House of Assembly so the people of this province would never have to go

through that again. That is one of the messes, or one of the mistakes that we've

had to fix up because of the work of the prior administration.

These

are the rules, Mr. Speaker, of public accounting. This is accrual accounting.

The budget is there, and this province will return to surplus in 2022-23, just

like we said way back in 2016.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Leader of the

Official Opposition.

MR. CROSBIE:

I'd ask the hon. Premier to

explain to the House how is it he expects the public to accept that we will

return to balance, or surplus, when he projects running major deficits for the

next two years.

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER BALL:

Mr. Speaker, that's all laid

out in our forecast. All this information is available. I will tell you too,

yesterday the Leader of the Opposition made comments outside of this House that

were not factual; they were not truthful, Mr. Speaker. The comment about having

another budget ready is not at all true. Shame on the Leader of the Opposition

for making that suggestion.

Mr.

Speaker, what I do agree with him, however, is the fact that he mentioned that

we would back in this House as government. I do agree with that – that we would

pass the budget.

Mr.

Speaker, this indeed is the budget that we will pass on re-election to this

government. We have put in place a fiscal framework that we will meet. This

province will be back to surplus in 2022-23. This province is already in a

better place than we inherited in 2015.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Leader of the

Official Opposition.

MR. CROSBIE:

The Premier well knows that

his budget has increased spending in this coming year by $183 million. The

Employers' Council has said that if spending money you don't have is how you get

re-elected, we are never going to get out of our situation.

I ask

the Premier if spending money we don't have is more important than the future of

our young people.

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER BALL:

Mr. Speaker, I'll tell you

what is important about the future of this province is a government here that

has a plan to fix the mistakes of the previous PC administration. Nearly 30 per

cent of the net debt in this province, Mr. Speaker, guess where it's going?

Nearly 30 per cent to Muskrat Falls – nearly 30 per cent of the net debt in this

province as a result of the mistakes, the miscalculations, the information that

was hid from the people in this province by the PC Party of Newfoundland and

Labrador.

He's

concerned today about the future of this province. What I'm concerned about, Mr.

Speaker, is making sure that we put in measures, we put a plan in. There is no

plan for the Leader of the Opposition. I challenge the Leader of the Opposition

to tell the people of this province what indeed his plan is for the future. We

have put our plan forward and we will stand on that.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Leader of the

Official Opposition.

MR. CROSBIE:

I'd remind the Premier that

when he was leader of the Opposition, he supported Muskrat Falls.

Budget 2016 –

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

MR. CROSBIE:

Some hon. Members need more

self-restraint, Mr. Speaker.

Budget 2016 , this government increased

the gas tax, brought in the levy, cut libraries and introduced a book tax

because they needed the money. Yet, this budget opens the taps on spending with

$183 million increase.

Will the

Premier admit that this spending increase makes return to balance highly

improbable?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER BALL:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Well,

I'm pleased to stand in this House again today – and yes, I spent four years as

leader of the Opposition in this province. Mr. Speaker, I've had a muskrat in my

life for nearly eight years. I can tell you what, I voted against it in 2012,

Mr. Speaker. I voted against it in 2012. We led a filibuster in this House –

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

PREMIER BALL:

– on two pieces of

legislation, Bill 60 and Bill C-61. I'm on the record of not supporting Muskrat

Falls, Mr. Speaker. I will tell you, though, we've had some good Newfoundlanders

and Labradorians that have worked on that project, it is not their fault, it's

the fault of the PC Party that got us in this mess we're in today – nearly 30

per cent of our net debt going directly to Muskrat Falls.

Yes, I'm

concerned about the future of this province. We have put a plan in place to fix

it. I ask the Leader of the Opposition: Where is your plan? When will the people

of this province see it?

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Leader of the

Official Opposition.

MR. CROSBIE:

Perhaps the hon. Premier has

forgotten that he asked to have our plan tabled and, in fact, it's tabled.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

MR. CROSBIE:

The Premier will remember

that $200 million in supposed federal funding for his own Muskrat rate

mitigation plan. It is not found in this year's budget.

Is it

not found in this year's budget because Ottawa has not agreed to it?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER BALL:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

So the

people of Newfoundland and Labrador know right now that the only plan that the

PC Party has for their future is one called a CHEAP plan. That's the only thing

they got. Well, Mr. Speaker, I will tell you, there is nothing cheap about that

plan. It's the most expensive electricity that we've ever had in the history of

this province. It's 17-cent power, Mr. Speaker. That's the plan that the Leader

of the Opposition just said it's the only plan that he has.

I will

tell you, we have laid out a very detailed plan for rate mitigation. For

assurance, we put it in The Way Forward ;

it's been our vision. We put it in place in 2016, Mr. Speaker, and that plan is

working.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Leader of the

Official Opposition.

MR. CROSBIE:

Mr. Speaker, I don't know

what plan the Premier is describing because it is not ours.

The

Premier announced on Monday a rate mitigation plan and promised customers would

not pay any more than 13.5 cents. First power is expected this budget year, but

there is no funding in the budget for rate mitigation. Why not?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER BALL:

Mr. Speaker, talk about

following plans. Well, I think we've learned a lesson about following the plan

of the PC Party. There were a lot of people in this province who were supportive

of the Muskrat Falls project back in 2015 because they were sold a bill of

goods, but you delivered a different good; 17-cent power is way too much for the

people in this province. This economy could not sustain it.

I want

to go back to the $200-million question that he had just a few minutes ago, Mr.

to work within the financial framework that's in place to come up with $200

million. They've made a commitment that, working together, we could achieve

that.

The

Public Utilities Board, the experts, that the PC Party kicked out of Muskrat

Falls – let's not forget that, and the condescending comments about their work.

We have

a plan in place and we will work with the federal government to finalize the

$200 million.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

Thank you.

The hon.

the Leader of the Official Opposition.

MR. CROSBIE:

Mr. Speaker, yesterday there

was a lock-up pre-budget, the standard protocols, standard procedure, we turned

over, in the PC caucus, our communication devices and we were monitored by

officials for security. There was an official from the Department of Advanced

Education, Skills and Labour in the briefing with us who we discovered was

sending messages, disclosing the nature of our discussions, back to the

government.

Can the

minister explain why his agent was ordered to eavesdrop on the Official

Opposition?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Finance and President of Treasury Board.

MR. OSBORNE:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I didn't

order anybody to eavesdrop, but I'm not surprised, I expected more of the Leader

of the Opposition than what he's delivering. He gives false accusations. He

gives innuendos. He gives false information and he says that plans are false,

agreements are fake and budgets are fake.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

MR. OSBORNE:

Mr. Speaker, quite frankly, I

expected more of him.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Leader of the

Official Opposition.

MR. CROSBIE:

The minister of that

department I mentioned may be better informed on this than the Minister of

Finance.

So I ask

him, when challenged as to why he was there and what he was doing, this employee

was forthright, told us his name, said he was an official, and said he was

ordered to be there to listen in on what we were saying and report back in real

time on what he was hearing.

I ask

the minister: Who ordered this to happen?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Finance and President of Treasury Board.

MR. OSBORNE:

Mr. Speaker, it wasn't me.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Conception Bay South.

MR. PETTEN:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr.

Speaker, Treasury bills are short-term loans that government uses for cash flow

purposes. This Liberal government has increased the T-bill program to over $1

billion.

I ask

the minister: Is this an indication that you have mismanaged government's cash

flow?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER BALL:

Mr. Speaker, I have to take

this question, because I was in a room within minutes when someone told me back

in December of 2015 that we needed nearly $400 million to get through December.

You want

to talk about T-bills? There was no borrowing strategy when we came in in 2015.

Now, I'm

not expecting the Members of the Opposition to even acknowledge this. No

borrowing strategy at all, you had no – you couldn't go out and get a long-term

financial commitment from the industry because they were living, really, just on

a revolving line of credit. That's how this province was run.

Mr.

Speaker, first of all, we changed that, and by the following November, we put in

the long-term plan. We improved the syndicate. We increased the number of people

that we could talk to. We have no problem right now getting money to keep this

province running. We are doing a good job with it. As a matter of fact, we've

reduced borrowing this year.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Conception Bay South.

MR. PETTEN:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It's

incredible after four years in government – in four years – we're going to an

election now, and they're still blaming the former administration.

Premier,

you asked our leader to apologize for Muskrat Falls. Why don't you stand up and

apologize for Upper Churchill? Talk nonsense.

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER BALL:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

There is

a classic example of someone that's not using the words – his own leader talks

about Winston Churchill.

Mr.

Speaker, you know very well – I speak to the Members opposite right now – when

you look at four years ago, you see how sensitive they are when they get

reminded about their past. You see how sensitive they are when they're not

accepting the responsibility.

I would

be ashamed of it, too, if I sat in that chair. I would be ashamed that they will

expose seniors of this province to 17 cent power under their CHEAP.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Conception Bay South.

MR. PETTEN:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

More of

it again.

In the

Department of Finance, there are two pots of money called Financial Assistance,

which total $19 million in 2018-2019, which Cabinet could transfer to other

departments.

I ask

the Premier: Provide a breakdown of what was spent out of this fund.

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Finance and President of Treasury Board.

MR. OSBORNE:

Mr. Speaker, I'm not exactly

sure, but I will have an answer for the Member.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

Thank you.

The hon.

the Member for Conception Bay South.

MR. PETTEN:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Last

year, oil revenues were down by $82 million due to the shutdown of the SeaRose

FPSO. The province then had to borrow to make up the shortfall.

Why

didn't the Premier ask for this project's partners to help cover the lost

revenue?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER BALL:

Mr. Speaker, once again facts

matter. The borrowing was actually down last year, if you look at what the

borrowing commitment was. That is not lost revenue; that is deferred revenue,

Mr. Speaker, of some $82 million from this shutdown.

Mr.

Speaker, we went through this before. We've had Terra Nova that would have come

off many years ago. That money comes back to the province. It could potentially

come back at a price of oil that is worth more value. In this case, it was

deferred revenue. The money is not lost, Mr. Speaker, and our borrowing was down

last year.

This

province is on track for a surplus in 2022, 2023 and every opportunity we can

find to give back to the people of this province, we will, Mr. Speaker.

I ask

the Member opposite: In his next question will he start articulating what his

plan is?

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Conception Bay South.

MR. PETTEN:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We're

going to show them our plan now whenever he finds his way down to Government

House.

If the

money is not there to share, Premier, it's lost revenue. Even if it's down the

road, we can't look in the future. Right now, if it's not there this year, it's

lost revenue.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

MR. PETTEN:

In budget Estimates last

year, the Minister of Justice said: I truly think budget Estimates are the most

important part of the budget process because it's real questions, real answers,

real information. Budget Estimates are important.

Why is

the Premier throwing us into an election without a budget debate?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER BALL:

Mr. Speaker, what we're

seeing this year is the deficit is down, our borrowing is down. I take exception

to what the Member of the Opposition just said about loss revenue. Mr. Speaker,

it is deferred revenue.

I tell

you, when you look it, if oil is in the ground and that oil comes up, it adds

value. So why is it that the Member opposite would take a position that that is

lost, Mr. Speaker? That is out there, Mr. Speaker.

It was

unfortunate what happened that that revenue was deferred, but it was a situation

that needed to occur because of safety. That revenue is not lost, it was

deferred; less borrowing this year.

This

province is back on track, Mr. Speaker. We've done a good job in fixing up the

mess of this province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Conception Bay South.

MR. PETTEN:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I ask

the Premier again, as his Government House Leader, the Minister of Justice

stated: Estimates are a very important part of our budgetary process, real

questions, real answers, real information.

Premier,

just come clean: Why are you not allowing a budget debate before going to an

election? It's a really important question that the people of the province would

like an answer to.

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Justice and Public Safety.

MR. A. PARSONS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I'm

happy to stand here in the House and speak to this. The Member is actually

right. I did say how important the Estimates were for any budget process. I

enjoyed it on the Opposition side, I certainly enjoy it on the government side

and I certainly will look forward to the Estimates process for

Budget 2019 .

Thank

you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Fortune Bay - Cape La Hune.

MS. PERRY:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

When we

advocated for the removal of tax on insurance the Premier said: Where would you

replace that money?

I ask

the Premier the same question today: What happened in the past month to make you

decide to change your mind?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER BALL:

Mr. Speaker, we went through

a budget process, and in 2016 we made a commitment to the people of this

province that when those temporary taxes could be removed, they would be

removed. Mr. Speaker, we've done it already with a number of them. The levy is

actually gone this year. I think everybody on this side of the House will be

very pleased when that's gone. The people of this province will be very pleased

when it's gone.

The only

person, Mr. Speaker, that I'm saying that I've heard questions from that is not

happy that we were able to relieve the auto insurance tax is the Member

opposite. She should be up congratulating government today in putting relief for

people in her own district.

Mr.

Speaker, it's the same Member that just a few weeks ago said the doubling of

electricity rates was a fallacy in this province. If it was a fallacy why do we

need a rate mitigation plan?

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Fortune Bay - Cape La Hune.

MS. PERRY:

To correct the record, Mr.

Speaker, what I said is the Liberals were fear mongering, leading people to

believe the rates would double when it was never something that had to happen.

It's so unfortunate that so many people moved away because of that, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

MS. PERRY:

When we asked the Finance

Minister to commit to removing the tax on insurance, he said: Reducing the tax

would reduce government revenues. He then suggested layoffs would occur as a

result.

They

shut down the House, wouldn't allow questions on the Atlantic Accord. They are

going to shut down the House so we can't ask questions and find out what's

hidden in the budget.

I ask

the minister: Do you have layoffs hidden in this budget?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER BALL:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

No,

there are no layoffs. Our plan is around attrition, but since the Member was up

and asking some good questions, what I'd like to know is: Where is the plan?

Explain

to the people of this province what debt brake means because the Leader of the

Opposition has made that as a pillar of his leadership, Mr. Speaker.

Debt

brake means that next year in this province you'd have to find several hundred –

millions of dollars, Mr. Speaker. That will mean less services to the people in

Fortune Bay - Cape La Hune. It will mean less services for the people in Windsor

Lake. It will mean that there'll be drastic layoffs.

I ask

the Leader of the Opposition and others to come clean: Where is your plan? How

many people in this province will lose their jobs under a Tory administration?

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Conception Bay East - Bell Island.

MR. BRAZIL:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

There

was no funding in this budget to replace École Norte-Dame-du-Cap.

I ask

the Premier: Why not? Are francophone students on the West Coast not a priority

for government?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Education and Early Childhood Development.

MR. HAWKINS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

As you

know, and the Member opposite knows, we are really focusing a lot on how we are

replacing our schools. Of course, as you know, that particular school, the

situation, we're working through that with the school board and with the

francophone school board.

If the

Member was listening yesterday, there was actually $2.8 million for looking at

the new francophone school here in St. John's, and, of course, $2.5 million of

that is coming out of this budget and $300,000 from the previous budget.

We are

really committed, Mr. Speaker, to making sure that the infrastructure we have in

be second to none.

Thank

you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Conception Bay East - Bell Island.

MR. BRAZIL:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

doubt, we commend that we're going to be looking at additional needs here in the

St. John's area for the French population, but the West Coast deserves it also.

There's been a neglect on the West Coast when it comes to francophone students.

Mr.

Speaker, 15 new drug therapies were announced yesterday; yet, no details to

accompany this announcement. Questions like these would be asked in Estimates,

but because we are likely not going to have that opportunity: Minister, is

another program or service being cut to cover these drugs?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Health and Community Services.

MR. HAGGIE:

Thank you very much, Mr.

Speaker.

I, too,

enjoy the Estimates process, I find it fascinating. The 15 new drugs are

included in the budget. There are eight or nine for oncology, but it includes a

variety of conditions like hidradenitis, it includes a new front-line treatment

for MS and it's entirely funded within the budget from Health and Community

Services.

We will

have Estimates when we bring down our budget, after we come back in government,

Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Conception Bay East - Bell Island.

MR. BRAZIL:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Yesterday, government finally lifted the age cap for those currently enrolled in

the insulin pump program; however, if you are over 25 you will not be covered.

Minister, what do you say to these people who are still being denied coverage?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Health and Community Services.

MR. HAGGIE:

Thank you very much, Mr.

Speaker.

listened to the concerns about the age cap. I'll tell you what I'll say to those

people who are not covered under the new arrangement: ask them to tell me how I

could spend $780 million a year that we wouldn't have to spend on rate

mitigation to cover up the mess we inherited. That's where the money would come

from.

Just

imagine what I could do for the diabetic people of this province if I had access

to a fraction of that money.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for Mount

Pearl North.

MR. LESTER:

Mr. Speaker, last year the

cannabis tax generated $37,000 in revenue, but this year it's forecasted to

generate $5.4 million.

I ask

the minister: What is the projection based on? How much of it is on the backs of

those who are medically prescribed cannabis, and is this inflated?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Finance.

MR. OSBORNE:

Mr. Speaker, I've answered

the Member's questions a couple of times in this House. Medical cannabis is

federally regulated. I'll try to spell it out as clearly as I can, because he's

obviously not listening to the answer.

There's

a drug identification number for drugs in Canada. There is no drug

identification number yet for cannabis. When there is a drug identification

number we can then look at the request that the Member is making. Until then, I

suggest he speak to the federal government.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for Mount

Pearl North.

MR. LESTER:

Minister, how much of the $40

million has been given to Canopy Growth to date? Are they adhering to the terms

of their contract?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Tourism, Culture, Industry and Innovation, for a quick response, please.

MR. MITCHELMORE:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We're

very pleased that we're having cannabis supply and production that's happening

here in our province. That's creating jobs and growing the economy. We do have

full compliance on this particular matter, and we have documentation to back

that up.

Thank

you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

Thank you.

The hon.

the Member for St. John's East - Quidi Vidi.

MS. MICHAEL:

Thank you very much, Mr.

Speaker.

In 2015,

after assuming office, the Premier expressed shock at the real state of the

province's finances and criticized the outgoing government for being so

secretive. We know from government links to the media that government may go to

the polls without a proper debate on the province's finances.

So I ask

the Premier: How does he square those things in himself – secrecy on the one

hand, but not for him?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER BALL:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Well,

first and foremost, the budget was laid out yesterday with all the Estimates

material, Mr. Speaker. It's all laid out clearly to the people of our province.

Mr.

Speaker, that was very different than what was done in 2015. We've put in place

new mechanisms, new legislation. So right now all that information is out there.

The best

people in this province to actually look at this budget, do the analyzing of the

information that's there, is the very people that would be impacted by it. These

are every single resident in Newfoundland and Labrador, including the Members

opposite.

So if

indeed there's an election call, Mr. Speaker, either it's to be debated here in

this House, or debated on the doorsteps of this province. This budget, the only

budget that this government will be – this is the budget that will be debated,

and if we come back, this is the budget that will be passed.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for St.

John's East - Quidi Vidi.

Order,

please!

MS. MICHAEL:

Thank you very much, Mr.

Speaker.

Well, I

hope the average person out in the public gets a copy of the book called

The Economy , along with a copy of the

Budget Speech, along with all the different sheets, because without all of them

they don't get the full picture. The Budget Speech doesn't tell them the

realities that are in that Economy

booklet, and I'll be talking about that later today.

Mr.

Speaker, the Premier said we would be going to the polls before the school year

ended. There's ample time for a proper budget debate and an election campaign.

I ask

the Premier: Why doesn't he not want this budget debated?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER BALL:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Well,

the budget material, I will say, is all online, which includes the material that

was just mentioned. That's the goal to get that information out there, Mr.

Speaker. We have used EngageNL and a number of consultations that we've had

around this province to help form the information that goes in this budget.

With

that said, the debates that will occur – Mr. Speaker, every single person in

this House of Assembly have told us, bring on the election. They said to us that

they're ready. The party that she's a part of, Mr. Speaker, said bring it on.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

PREMIER BALL:

The Leader of the Opposition, the Leader of the PC Party has been driving a bus

around St. John's today. There's been a tour wagon that hasn't toured, that's

been stuck in the parking lot over there for months. People in this province,

Mr. Speaker, have been asking for this, as have all (inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER:

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for St.

John's Centre.

MS. ROGERS:

Mr. Speaker, fixed election

dates level the playing field for all parties and provide transparency for the

voters, but the Premier's game playing about a rushed spring election

announcement provides none of that.

I ask

the Premier: Why is he causing confusion and consternation for the people of

Newfoundland and Labrador by not coming clean on announcing the actual election

date?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER BALL:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Well,

right now, I've made a commitment to the people of this province back a few

weeks ago. Basically, everyone in this House would have heard this. Everybody in

this House would have responded to that. People have challenged me to bring it

on. Mr. Speaker, people have said they've been ready. The Leader of the PC Party

has been asking since January to do this.

Everybody has called for nominations, including the party that the Member

opposite represents. They have all their nominations open. People are preparing,

Mr. Speaker. The date that we've put out there, as I've made the commitment to

have insurance, made a commitment for rate mitigation, made a commitment to put

the Budget out. Mr. Speaker, all of this work has been done.

Right

now, the people that would gauge and put – as we've completed our mandate, Mr.

Speake, that will have their say are Newfoundlanders and Labradorians.

MR. SPEAKER:

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for St.

John's Centre.

MS. ROGERS:

Mr. Speaker, I ask the

Premier: Why waste everyone's time by setting up a Select Committee on

Democratic Reform if he only intends to play by the rules of old school politics

and shows contempt for our democracy?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Government House

Leader.

MR. A. PARSONS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I'm

happy to speak to the Committee for Democratic Reform, which has actually had a

number of meetings now, and I can guarantee you that after the election, when it

happens, that Committee will continue to live on.

again, we're happy to make changes. We've made more changes in 3½ years than

were made in the two decades before when it comes to reforming this House. I'm

proud to do that and I'm looking forward to continuing it as well.

Thank

you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for St.

John's Centre for a quick question, please.

MS. ROGERS:

Mr. Speaker, why does this

government have such contempt for the democratic process and what does this say

about its commitment to democratic reform? And we haven't had several meetings.

We've had two short meetings.

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Government House

Leader.

MR. A. PARSONS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I find

it interesting that the NDP is talking about democratic reform. We only have to

look at their process when it came to their nominations to see how they feel

about democratic reform.

The fact

is, in the last 3½ years, we've done more than has been done in the two decades

previous, and we're going to continue that work after an election.

Thank

you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The time for Oral Questions

is over.

Presenting Reports by Standing and Select Committees.

Tabling

of Documents.

Notices

of Motion.

Answers

to Questions for which Notice has been Given.

Petitions.

Petitions

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for Mount

Pearl - Southlands.

MR. LANE:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

There

have been numerous concerns raised by family members of seniors in long-term

care throughout Newfoundland and Labrador, particularly those suffering with

dementia, Alzheimer's disease and other cognitive debilitating conditions,

whereby loved ones have experienced injuries, have not been bathed regularly,

not received proper nutrition and/or have been left lying in their own waste for

extended periods of time. We believe this is directly related to government's

failure to ensure adequate staffing at those facilities.

THEREFORE we petition the hon. House of Assembly as follows: To urge the

Government of Newfoundland and Labrador to instate legislation which includes

the mandatory establishment of an adequate ratio of one staff to three residents

in long-term care and other applicable regional health facilities housing

persons with dementia, Alzheimer's disease and other cognitive debilitating

conditions in order to ensure appropriate safety, protection from injuries,

proper hygiene care and all other required care –

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

MR. LANE:

This law would include the

creation of a specific job position in these facilities for monitoring and

intervention as required to ensure the safety of patients.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

It's

difficult to hear the Member, please.

Thank

you.

MR. LANE:

Mr. Speaker, I present this

petition again today – possibly the last day, depending on if an election is

called – on behalf of Advocates for Senior Citizens' Rights. As I have said many

times, this is their petition. We've literally had thousands of signatures go

through on this.

I will

once again reiterate that this is not in any way condemning the staff of these

facilities or the care that they provide, or their level of compassion and so

on. It's simply saying that it is felt by many people in this province that

there is not always adequate staffing in these facilities when it comes to

people who have Alzheimer's, dementia and so on, making sure that they are

receiving the appropriate care that they are required, and making sure that it

happens at all times.

All

they're asking for here – they're asking for legislation. They're not interested

in the health authorities having a policy. They're not interested in

regulations. They want something that will set a standard in legislation to

guarantee, at all times, that our seniors that are in these facilities are

receiving the appropriate care at all times, that there's enough staff there all

the time to do it.

That's

what they've been asking. I've presented this numerous times. Today, we have

people from Wabush and Lab City on this petition. Certainly, if we're here

tomorrow, I'll present it again tomorrow; if not, I will be presenting these

petitions after the election.

Thank

you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER:

Thank you.

Further

petitions?

The hon.

the Member for St. John's Centre.

MS. ROGERS:

Thank you very much, Mr.

Speaker.

To the

hon. House of Assembly of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador in

Parliament Assembled, the petition of the undersigned residents humbly sheweth:

WHEREAS

Newfoundland and Labrador has one of the lowest minimum wages in Canada and

minimum wage workers earn poverty incomes; and

WHEREAS

proposals to index the minimum wage to inflation will not address poverty if the

wage is too low to start with; and

WHEREAS

women and youth and service sector employees are particularly hurt by the low

minimum wage; and

WHEREAS

the minimum wage only rose only 5 per cent between 2010 and 2016, while many

food items rose more than 20 per cent; and

WHEREAS

the minimum wage only rose between 2010 and 2016; and

WHEREAS

other Canadian jurisdictions are implementing or considering a $15 minimum wage

as a step towards a living wage;

WHEREUPON the undersigned, your petitioners, humbly pray and call upon the House

of Assembly to urge government to legislate a gradual i