PROVINCE OF NEWFOUNDLAND AND LABRADOR HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY Volume 1 Number 110 4th. Session 34th. General Assembly VERBATIM REPORT FRIDAY, JUNE 12, 1970 SPEAKER: THE HONOURABLE GEORGE W. CLARKE

June 12th, 1970 The House met at 10:30 A. M. Mr. Speaker in the Chair. Tape 1226 PRESENTING PETITIONS: JM - 1 MR. ROBERtS: Mr. Speaker, may I hav~ the consent of the House, Sir, to present a petition on behalf of many hundred citizens living in the district of St. Barbe South. This petition, Sir, has been sent to me by Mr. Augustine Humber of Port Saunders who is the chairman of a committee including in its membership Mrs. William (Shirley) Spence of Port au Choix and Mr. George Ayre of Fox Bay.

This three member committee, Sir, represents the Community Councils at Port Saunders, Hawkes .Bay and Port au Choix under whose auspic~s this petition has been gathered. The petition, Sir, has been subscribed to by citizens living in the communities of Barr'd Harbour, Hawkes Bay, River of Ponds, Eddies Cove West, Bartletts Harbour, Castor River South, Castor River North, in addition to the communities of Port Saunders and Port au Choix itself. The Prayer of the Petition, Mr. Speaker, is quite long so I will not lay it in detail at this stage.

The Prayer of the Petition is for improved medical facilities in the Port Saunders, Port au Choix, Hawkes Bay area. I had some remarks to make on this when the House dealt in Committee with the estimates of my Department, Mr. Speaker, so I will not repeat them except to say that the Government believe that there is a need for improved medical services in this area of the Province and the Government intend . to improve them along the lines we have indicated and the Government are determined to improve the medical services avail~ble to the people in this part · of Newfound­ land.

I would move that the petition be received by the House, Mr. Speaker, and be referred to the Department to which it relates, ~hich I suspect is the Department of Health, the Department which I administer. I can assure the House, Sir, and I can assure the petitioners that the petition will receive immediate and favourable consideration. I see that the member for St. Barbe South is not here. I guess h~ is off attempting to put together the wager which he lost to me on another matter last night. But I spoke with him yesterday and told him I would be presenting the petition and I know that he 70~0

June 12th, 1970 Tape 1226 JH - 2 MR. ROBERTS: would want me to express his s~pport. After all these people are his constituents and I think he is indefatigable in his determination to try to help them • . So, Mr. Speaker, I move that the petition be received and be referred to the Department to which it relates and I support the motion as strongly as I can. MR. CHALKER: Mr.

Speaker, I present my strongest support to this petition in as much as the history of Port Saunders with regard to medical centre goes back, I think it started during the Commission of Government days and at that time they had a hospital and a doctor stationed there which serviced the Hawkes Bay and even to a certain extent in the present district of St. Barbe North as far as Barr'd Harbour. Although the roads have been pushed through now to St.

Anthony which is possibly one of the great medical centres of this Province and as well as to the smaller cottage hospital at Norris Point it still leaves a lot of road for people to travel when they are ill. I think it runs possibly to two hundred to three hundred miles, 250 miles. I have been speaking with my colleague, the Minister of Health, on this project many times. As a matter of f~ct I took it upon myself to write a Mrs. Bennett, a woman who served that

section of the Coast for practically forty years and I believe many of the people in this hon. House would remember a write-up about her in a Reader's Digest of several months ago. She did pass me along some of her ideas 1which I have forwarded to the Minister of Health. In supporting this petition I would appreciate that the Department of Health give every consideration to it especially now that Port au Choix and Hawkes Bay are becoming very large centres and possibly prone to accidents with all the different machinery that is down there. MR.

CROSBIE: I would like to support the Prayer of the Petition on behalf of the member for St. Barbe South as well as myself. I think the petition speaks for itself. Anyone who has travelled up the St. Barbe coast from Deer Lake right up to St. Anthony will realize that even though there is now a road there is a tremendous travelling distance involved. Perhaps once the road is paved there will not be the same necessity but certainly there is need now for 70~1

June 12th, 1970 Tape 1226 JM - 3 MR. CROSBIF.: better medical care, for a doctor along that coast between Norris Point and St. Anthony,and we certainly hope that the Minister will do all he can to meet the Prayer of the Petition. On motion, petition received ." ANS\~ERS TO QUESTIONS : MR. JONES: Mr. Speaker, I have the answer to question · (532) on the Order Paper of May 28th by the hon. the Leader of the Opposition and in this answer I have endeavoured to incorporate addition information that arose out of the discussion of my estimates in Committee. MR. CURTIS: Mr.

Speaker, on question (556),1 might say I do not know the answer but perhaps my hon. friend, the Minister of Public Works does. MR. CHALKER: Mr. Speaker, on that question, I will have the answer prepared. MR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker, there is a question on the Order Paper (551) addressed to me by the hon. member for Gander. The answer that I must give must be similar to that of my colleague, the Minister of Justice. The Depart­ ment of.Health occupies space in Gander, I believe, but all rentals are negotiated and paid for'in our behalf by the Department of Public Works.

Perhaps the question could either be readdressed to my colleague, the Minister of Public Works or perhaps he will take it as notice and get the ·answer for the hon. gentleman. MR. CHALKER: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I think I will take notice of them all and have them prepared early next week. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, that should in~lude question (555) also asked in the name of the member from Gander. MR. MURPHY: Mr.

Speaker, before you go into Orders of the Day I am wondering now if the Preinier could give the House and perhaps the people,particularily of Ferryland district,an idea , as to when there might be a by-election held to fill the vacancies. While we are rearing to go it is just as well to find out so as we can stay. MR. NEARY: Will the reporters take a chance on that one1 MR. MURPlrr: We do not take any chances let that be square. There are no such thingsas chances anymore. The chances are all on the other side now. 70~2

June 12th, 1970 Tape 1226 JM - 4 MR. COLLINS: The 9uestion is can you stand another licking? MR. MURPHY: No answer! Mr. Speaker, I would like to address a question to the Minister of Finance,if it is his idea to introduce his motion during this present sitting. We are getting near the end - the Seleat-Committee on public accounts and I wonder when we are going to deal with it. MR. SMALLWOOD: Put it on the Order . Paper. MR. MURPHY: That is a nice answer. It is on the Order Paper. MR. S~~LLWOOD: Put this question on the Order Paper. MR. MURPHY: No, not at all. I do not have to. This is on the orders. MR.

SMALLWOOD: Well, if the hon. gentleman does. not have to he will not do it. AN RON. MEMBER: (Inaudible), MR. MURPHY: Yes, that is something like the voters list in St. John's East, contempt. Sixty people out of 123 had to be sworn at the poles in one booth yesterday, sixty out of 123 and the Minister promised there would be someone there fdr assistance and there was no-one there only the regular returning officer. MR. CURTIS: I took the matter up, Mr. Speaker, with the returning officer and I found that there were objections.

In the first place the electors had to be sworn before the returning officer and in the second place under the provisions of the Act only the returning officer and one other are allowed in the booth. We were not allowed to introduce a third person in the booth and that is the reason we did not do it. It was just we were circumscribed by the Act. MR. MURPHY: It was a travesty of justice, the election, an absolute travesty of justice to the rights of the people. MR. CURTIS: The election was a travesty of justice MR. SMALLWOOD: Some people think it was not a travesty but some think it was a tragedy. MR.

MURPHY: I think it and I do not care who they voted for. MR. CROSBIE: On that point, Mr. Speaker. On the point that is being discussed of the election. There is to ·be an election within the next year. MR. SPEAKER: This complete discussion on this matt .er is out of order at this particular time. It was not raised as a matter of explanation or a point of 70~3

June 12th, 1970 MR. SPEAKER: Tape 1226 JM- 5 privilege or anything. The whole thing has been out of order. I allowed it to go on obviously, what . else could you do but I do not think we should now start a debate over what has already been said and which has been said out of order anyway. Item (6) on the Order Paper - MR. CROSBIE: On a point of privilege, Mr. Speaker. I would like to confirm what the Leader of the Opposition said, "It was barbaric", yesterday. MR. SMALLWOOD: (Inaudible). MR. CROSBIE: L9rd Ita, Ha is very happy today. MR. SPEAKER: I said we are not going to continue a debate on this point.

It is not a point of privilege, it is not a point of anything. We are not going to continue the debate on this. MR. CURTIS: Motion (6) you said, was it? MR. SPEAKER: Yes, motion (6).

On motion of the bon. the President of the Council, a Bill, "An Act To Provide For The Abatement And Control Of Pollution Of Air, Soil And Water And For The Conservation And Use Of Water As A Natural Resource Of The Province; To Provide An Aid Towards The Centralization And Coordination Of The Multiform Controls Over The Use Of Water Generally By The Creation Of An Authority As An Arm Of Government," read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

On motion of the hon. the President of the Council, a Bill, "An Act Further To Amend The Public Utilities Act, 1964," read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow. On motion of the bon. tJ:!e President of the Council, a Bill, "An Act To Control And Regulate The Distribution And Use Of Pesticides And Herbicides," read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow. Labrador Affairs - 1900 1901(01) COMMITTEE. OF SUPPLY: HR. BURGESS: Mr.

Chairman, before finishing at 6:00 P.M. yesterday I was discussing the matter on this item of air transports into Labrador and I was dealing specifically with Eastern Provincial Airways in relation to a brief 70~~1

June 12th, 1970 Tape 1226 JM- 6 MR. BURGESS: which the Labrador West Chamber of Commerce had submitted to the Canadian Transport Commission in Ottawa. Essentially wl~at the brief entails, Mr. Chair­ man, was the fact that Eastern Provincial Airways operating out of St.

John's via Gand~r, Deer Lake, Goose Bay, Churchill Falls, Wabush and on into Montreal, the fact of the matter that Eastern Provincial Airways by virtue of franchise that Quebec Air has from Wabush to Montreal that Eastern Provincial Airways are unable to pick up passengers in \olabush to transport them to Montreal, despite the fact that there is unlimited seating space available at practically all times on that aircraft.

Now since I have been living in the district of Labrador Wes~on numerous occasions I have found it difficult to acquire a seat possibly on Quebec Air to travel to Montreal and I know that a lot of other residents of the area basically have run up against the same problem.

I just cannot under­ stand the rationale of the Department of Transport or the Transportation Commission in Ottawa not sanctioning the picking up of passen~ers by Eastern Provincial Airways in order that an alternate transportation system can be provided to the people of Labrador West into Montreal because we have a great percentage of our permanent residents in Labrador West who do not come from the Island of Newfoundland, they come from other parts of Canada and invariably when they leave they are going in that South Westerly direction. So as I have said, ~r.

Chairman, on numerous occasions people have been unable to get seating on Quebec Air, the only other air carrier out of Labrador West, and it is a tremendous source of frustration when these people see an empty aircraft coming in enroute to Montreal and being unable to get aboard it. It just does not make sense. The Labrador West Chamber of Commerce submitted this brief to the Transport Commission and they offered the following explanation for this brief and I will just read it as briefly as I can, Mr. Chairman. They state, "Item

(1) Excepting for a twice weekly train service offered by the freight orientated Quebec North Shore and Labrador Railway the communities of Labrador City and Wabush are entirely dependent on air service for travelling to and from urban centres. All traffic destined to or from South Western points is restricted to the Wabush-Montreal service provided by 70~5

June 12th, 1970 Tape 1226 JM - 7 MR. BURGESS: Quebec Air. Quebec Air scheduling effective October 26th, 1969 presently provides for the operation of South and West bound fli:ghts involving four hours travelling time,Mondays through Fridays, four enroute stops and five and one half hours travelling time,Saturdays and Sundays, five enroute stops. One direct flight is operated North bound weekdays but Saturday and Sunday flights are restricted to a five and one hour milk run with five enroute stops. "Eastern Provincial Airways is presently operating daily,except Sunday, jet service between St.

John's, Churchill Falls and Montreal via Wabush which hour would offer direct one..,and twenty-five minutes flight between Wabush and Montreal if EPA were permitted traffic rights to serve these points. Eastern Provincial Airways flight time departing Wabush at 12:25 Atlantic standard time, arriving in Montreal at 1300 hours Eastern standard time is significantly more convenient to local travellers requiring onward connections than the 1950 Eastern standard time arrival in Montreal provided by Quebec Air.

Insofar as the air service needs of these isolated communities are concerned the residents have been totally ignored and disregarded by the Air Transport Committee.

"Public service interest is purported to be of prime concern in the allocation of air routes and traffic rights but it is respectfully submitted that the public in this area has been relegated to an inconsequental role to permit the ··monopolistic safeguarding of one carrier's indifference to local air service requirements" ~hey go on to request that the Committee approve the granting of traffic rights to Eastern Provincial Airways for the carriage of passengers, mail and freight between Wabush and Montreal or,as an alternative solution~that the Committee direct Quebec Air to provide daily nonstop service between Wabush and Montreal.

Now I do not think there is anybody,particularily people in the Government of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador?who could deny that this is basically a logical request because the flights on Quebec Air 1which ~ncidentally, Mr. Chairman, the rate structure which Quebec Air have is equally as high as the rate structure that we are presently paying on Eastern Provincial Airways per air mile and it is only because of the fact that they are in a noncompetitive basis and they can charge essentially what they feel the community can afford or will afford. They can charge anything 7056

June 12th, 1970 Tape 1226 JM - 8 MR. BURGESS: they like and I think it is sad that stronger representation has not been made to these Federal authorities to ensure that the .people 'of Labrador at least be drawn into the main stream of the Newfoundland's sphere of things. It is very · sad that stronger representation bas not been ,,made and I would respectfully submit, Sir, that if representation has not been'made, I would submit, Sir, that it should be made immediately. Now on air travel, Mt. Chairman, anoth .er point, I brought it up in this hon. House before but I think it 7057

June 12th. 1970 Tape 1227 PK - 1 MR. BURCP.SS: deserves mention as often as it can possibly have, is the fact that up until the time that Eastern Provincial Airways established what they called a "southern route". which is from St. John's to Deer Lake, and then there is a change over at Deer Lake, and passengers go to Halifax, Charlottetown to Montreal, up until that time, Mr. Chairman. that they established this southern route - MR. SMALLWOOD: The bon. gentleman should take note that the word is "route", a rout was last night. A route is a physically direction. MR. MURPHY: ~~lr.

Chairman • if I may· at this time.- there are only eleven people in the House I do not know how we can discuss - there is no quorum. MR. SMALLWOOD: Oh, boy, he is the next Premier. He is really a big shot. Call him in. It is hard to take. but let us grin and bear it. Look, come on and give us more eloquence. Talk louder of something, just to try and hold the crowd here. MR. BURGESS: It is useless to ask the bon. the Premier to act like a human ·beipg •••• Now as I was saying, Mr. Chairman. np until that this southern route was provided, this is the way I learned it in Ireland. MR. SHALLWOOD: It is route. MR.

BURGESS: But we call it route. I understand it 1 and I am sure the bon, the Premier underB~~nd it. So it is okay as far as I am concerned, Up until such time as this route was provided, it was possible for two individuals, one to be travelling to Montreal and one to be travelling to Wabus~to get aboard the same aircraft in St. John's and go via Gander, Deer Lake, Goose Bay, Churchill Falls, Wabush and on to Montreal, and the passenger who was getting off in Wabush was paying $84.00 for his airfare, and the passenger who stayed on board and went on to Montreal 600 miles further was paying $66.00.

Now how this could be sanctioned - how any authority, how any representative body of people could sit by and allow this to happen particularly having the knowledge of it is beyond me. I just cannot understand it. MR. WINSOR: Hr. Chairman, has the bon. gentleman written any Air Transport Boarda? 70~8 __ .....

· June 12th. 1970 Tape 1227 PK - 2 MR. BURGESS: I have been in touch with the Air Transport Boards ••• MR. IHNSOR: Have you corresponded with them? MR. BURGESS: The Chamber of Commerce, under my direction, certainly I have been in touch with every member of the Transportation Commission. MR. WINSOR: Has the hon. gentleman corresponded• himself? !1~ P.U!~C.ES~: I have not corresponded, I have been in touch with them. And hesides that, 1 think, it might be the hon. minister's job to do the corresponden ·ce. MR. WINSOR: Oh, it should originate from the hon. -member for the district. MR.

BURGESS: The hon. the member has the opportunity of stating it i.n the House, and if it is acted upon, if it is a logical complaint, well then it should be acted upon maYbe by the Department of Labrador Affairs. MR. WINSOR: And that is where it lies as far as the hon. member is concerned. MR. BURGESS: Now, Sir, further to that, when we are talking about transportation, particularly the transportation needs of the people on the coast of Labrador, it is absolutely chronic, and I would like to quote from the Labrador Conference in Happy \'alley, where Dr.

Pearson' · an associate professor of Engineering at Memorial University,who has taken a great interest in Labrador through the Extension Department of Memorial, he stated that the Eastern portion of Labrador had some of the most acute transport problems in all of the Atlantic Region of Canada. As they were widely scattered,inhabitants dependent upon coastal steamers . unable,for most of the year,to provide personal travel. The isolation felt there, it could also be applied to Happy Valley - Goose Bay,in ~ relation to major centres. Mr.

Chairman, in the trips that I have made on the Coast of Labrador, the needs for air transportation provision is vital. lt is desparately needed by the people of these coastal communities. And if the Governments, the Governments are subsidizing Eastern Provincial Airways, I believe, to a great degree or has subsidized them to a great degree, and if they are participating financially in the operation of what they might consider to be a Provincial Airline, well the least that can 7059

June 12th. 1970 Tape 1227 PK - 3 MR. BURGESS: be expected is that they ensure that all the people of the Province,and Labrador is part of the Province, that at least all of the people are provided for to the best of the airlines ability. Now smaller aircraft could be provided)even if it was o~ly one aircraft that would make one, two or three trips a week along the coast. I think that it would at least help to alleviate to some degree the transportation problem of the coastal area. And I fail to see why some effort, even if the thing was given out on private, if there where tenders called, and private enterprise was asked to provide some kind of a

schedule airline service to these coasts, I am sure that it would receive, that whoever would put the tenders out would receive at least· some representation from some private enterprise group to service this area. And this 1 feel should be done without too much further delay. Now while I am on the matter of transportation once again, Mr. Chairman, a lot of the problems which we encounter in Labrador West,in terms of the number of landings that can actually take place in the course of a year- the climatic conditions are fairly grim in Labrador West, particularly in winter months.

And on many occasions we have seen it where we had no flights into Wabush for a week on end. Now I know the same thing happens here in St. John's. but the fact of the matter is, due to the Torbay Airport geographical location, you do get a lot of fog, but this is not the problem in Wabush. Now there has got to be established by a Federal agency or the Federal Government, the Department of Transport,and I would like to see also some representation from our Provincial authorities to the Federal Department of Transportation to establish an instrument landing system in Wabush.

Now it has been discussed much more widely since the very unfortunate fatal air crash, which happened there last year, in which the late Donald }~cParland lost his life, and some ~o~e people who were of prime interest to the Province. And it has been talked about, but !·have not heard anything materialized on it. And I think 70GO

' June 12th. 1970 Tape 1227 PK.- 4 MR. BURGESS: this is another area in which the Department of Labrador Affairs could play a stronr, role in making stronr,er representation or representation as such, to the Federal Department of Transport to an establish"instrument landing system. It \o10uld also mean that the frequency of flights into Wabush could be upgraded, and it would 'be an additional service which other parts of Canada would just take for granted. HR. WINSOR: On that matter of the hon. member, does he not knmv that this matter was raised with the hon.

Don Jamieson, the Minister of Transport, last Fall,after this accidentZ I agree that something should be done. He has confirmed; his department is looking into the matter with the intention of improving the navigational aids in that area. MR. BURGESS: The hon. minister is fa:tr - I think I some~.;rhat stated that in just what I said, I am aware of the fact that the~e has been discussion on this very matter. I am aware of it.

But if the hon. minister \Vould also remember there were discussions which took place on the matter of including Labrador in the Maritime Freight Rates Act, and these took place sometime ago but still nothing has materialized. MR. WINSOR: It is the Federal Government, and He cannot do anything more than that ••••• MR. BURGESS: I appreciate the fact that it is Federal, but strong representation is what is needed, and you know;strongly speaking out on these matters.

Now in the District of Labrador West, I would like to quote from the Royal Commission Report ~n The Economic State and Prospects,on page 134, Sub-section(4) where they referred to the present isolation of Labrador Mining Communities.

And they go on to state, "The Commission was impressed, during a visit to the mining communities in Western Labrador,with the sense of isolation that is felt to exist between that region and the rest of the Province, Since the successful development of the resources of such an isolated and climatically hard environments depend upon the happiness of the people involved, it is clearly important that their welfare should be fully considered. The establishment of a Department of Labrador 70G1

June 12th. 1970 Tape 1227. PK - 5 MR. BURGESS: Affairs within the Newfoundland Government is an encouraginR sign''. Now this was compiled, I take it, shortly aftt;r 1966. And they say such a department should not rest content with acting as a means of communication between Government and the people of Labrador, but should also assist very actively in the development of a regional plan for Labrador in close conjunction with the proposed economic planning secretariate and the proposed voluntary economic planning commission.

Now they saw exactly the sane thing as was possibly envisaged by this Government when they established the Department of Labrador Affairs. But, unfortunately the department has become and utterly stagnate. They saw exactly the same thing as was envisaged by this Government. But unfortunately it is not working out that way. Now the isolation is a fact, despite the - denials of some of the members who represent Labrador, the other members who represent Labrador, and despite their denials,by Government officials in the Cabinet,when it is brought up in this House. I respectfully submit, Hr.

Chairman, that if it is not a fact, · what I say, that the difference, the isolation that exist :f.n the minds of the people,between Labrador and the Province, I respectfully submit that the Labrador Conference would never have been called, because they an feel that they are~entity unto themselves, and that they cannot depend on - they have got to take the matter into their own hands and publicize the problems that we hav~to the greatest possible degree,in order that, if, at least if the Government is not going to do anything about it, then public pressure may, and this is the only way that some change can be achieved.

Now I have brought up consistently in the House too, I feel that it should be the responsibility of the Department of Labrador Affairs in overseeing the welfare of the people of Labrador, I feel that there should have been, or there .should be instituted by this Government some kind of a concession, as far as taxes on gasoline go.· I think it is a vital thing, as far as the people in Labrador are concerned, In Labrador 70C2

June 12th. 1970 Tape 1227 PK - 6 MR. BURGESS: West and in Labrador North, and in L~brador South, I feel that it is a vital thing, as far as they arc concerned because they arc ~ot provided with the roads. There is no maintenance of roads, or very little, and there is nowhere that the people . can drive to, so I do not see why they should be subjected to gas taxes. And if in the case of Labrador West, Mr.

Chairman, if the r~vernment insists that they cannot give this concession to the people of Labrador West, well then I say that, since they left everything else in the hands of the companies in Labrador West, practically every other social service that is provided, it is provided by the companies, if they cannot see their way fit to remove this gas tax; well why not hand this SSA. tax on gasoline over to the companies and ask them to provide a road outlet out of Labrador Weste in And in discussions with various companies officials, ~ their desire to have a psychologically happy people, and a psychologically happy community they feel that they have a responsibility to this community, Unfortunately they have a much greater degree of responsibility to the people .. than unfortunately this Government has.

And these pcople,during discussions with them . (and this includes the mining community of Gagnonville which is across the Boarder) these people, if they were handed over these S.S.A. taxes, may be prepared to drive a road through themselves to the North Shore of the St. Lawrence. I do not know what gasoline taxes amount to. tt could not be any too great of an amount for that amount of people. But, at least if this concession was made, it would show the people that there is some concern in the hearts and in the minds of our Government here.

And by showing this concern, it would remove this psychological isolation and resent and fustration that is prevalent in the minds of the people. And, I think, there is a great potential, if this Government were to discuss this possibility with the mining companies in that a~ea, because the people of Labrador West,based on their economic contribution,know and feel that they are entitled to more services than they are getting. 70G3

June 12th. 1970 Tape 1227 PK - 7 HR. BURGESS: Now the building of roads represents expenditures of vast sums of money. I ean ~ppreciate that. And it has been said that we are not an unreasonable people ~n Labrador West, or in Labrador proper. But it has been consistently stated that if this money is not available, which obviously is not, but in the interim period there should be some concessions made. And this is one of the concessions that can be made as far as gasoline taxes are concerned. Now, I mentioned, Mr.

Chairman, the fact that when the recent Legislation was passed in the House of Conunons,relative to the Maritime Freight Rates Act~which gave an additional subsidy for transportation of goods in the Maritime Provinces, that Labrador was excluded. And it was according excluded on the basis,to Hr. Jamieson. He stated that - I am quoting, Mr. Jamleson from the Labrador conference when he spoke about the Naritime Freight Rates Act.

And he sai<J;"basically the Act provided for a twenty percent subsidy on goods moving in what was known as the designated area which included the Atlantic Provinces, a portion of Quebec, but did not include Labrador." Mr. Jamieson pointed out that he did not know why Labrador had been excluded in the first instance, when the t&rms of Union where drawn up. This Act right now applied only to goods movin~ by rail. He explained that he had asked the Atlantic Provinces Committee a to find way through which the Maritime Freight Rates Act could apply to Labrador.

He further asked them to come up with a scheme whereby this Act or its equivalent might be applied to a compatible .· degree for air traffic. The committee was now working on this and as soon as there was a sensible proposal, Mr. Jamieson assured the participants that he would move to implement it immediately. Now I have ·.heard this statement,when the LeRislation was passed there was a hue and cry .about the exclusion of Labrador from this Act, (and that was well over a year ago now) Just how ionp, do we have to do without this subsidy] Just how long do we have to put up with the hi~h prices.

May be they will, come up with a scheme that will include Labrador in it, but it could be five years from now. And in the meantime we are subject 70 G·J

June 12th. 1970 ,Tape 1227 PK - 8 HR. BURGESS: to these exorbitant prices for consumer goods." And he went on to say;one of the reasons why Labrador could not simply be included within the Act was that there was a thirty percent subsidy on goods moving out of this select territory. This has meant that the Federal Government would have been obliged to pay a subsidy on all the iron ore moving out of Labrador City and Wabush. But in the name of Heavens, Mr.

Chairman, after all it is the Government of Canada who make . the Laws and if they wanted to include Labrador in the Maritime Freight Rates Act and exclude the Iron Ore Companies from benefiting from a subsidy of this nature, that could be done also. It is no good just decrying the thing and saying that if we apply the law that it will mean that these companies will be receiving this subsidy representing vast amounts of money. But the companies could be excluded. All it necessitate5is a minor modification of the Law. But, because of the fact, Mr.

Chairman, that we are not included in this Maritime Freight Rate Act, it means that the cost of living on consumer goods is at least fifteen percent higher than you are paying down here in the Province of Newfoundland. And believe you me, Mr. Chairman, the Newfoundland Herald published a

schedule here on May 17th.,in their paper • 'Ihe heading was; "If the·.people of Newfoundland cared to be reminded of the prices we 'pay". I believe you mean St. John's is so far ahead of other parts of Canada, such as Charlottetown, Halifax, Ottawa, Toronto, Winnipeg, Regina, Edmonton and Vancouver, well there is such a vast difference and then again, we are fifteen percent higher than St. John's, as far as consumer goods are concerned. And this just does not make sense. AN HON. }ffiMBER: Inaudible. MR. BURGESS: Pardon? AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible. MR.

BURGESS: I agree that the Maritime Freight Rates Act deals with tranRportation of ROods by rail. AN liON. m:MHER: Innudibh·. ,.,o ..... ~ I v ,)

Jnne 12th. 1970 Tape 1227 PK - 9 MR. BURGESS: But the Maritime Freight Rates Act applies to all freight . AN liON. MEMBER: Inaudible, ~m. BURGESS: But the fact of the matter is, Mr. Jamieson has stated himself, Mr. Chairman, that if Labrador were to be included in the Maritime Freight Rates Act that it would benefit and he quotes twenty percent. I am not completely knowledgeable about what is included in the Haritime Freight Rates Act, and I think, Hr. Jamieson, he is more knowledgeable than I am. or the bon. minister. But he did say that it would definitely be of benefit if Labrador was 'included. AN HON.

ME}ffiER: Inaudible. ~m. BURGESS: I just cannot understand why labrador was excluded, after all we are part of the Province. Why were we excluded? · ls this the only reason , because the Iron Ore Companies would have benefited from the subsidy. AN BON. }ffiMBER: Inaudible. ~m. BURGESS: Well did Mr. Jamieson say . that was one of his excuses as to why Labrador was not included! And I am quoting him verbatim. In Labrador West also, Hr.

Chairman, when the Royal Commission on Food and Drugs was presented to this House it was with a great degree of anticipation that I awaited the tabling ·, of this report. to see if be I there was going to~any decisive action on the part of this Government, to act in accordance with what they had learned from this Commission's Report. fo see if there was anyway that they could become involved,whereby the people of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, if they could become involved to the extent that they would make some of these enterprises, particularly these large chain stores who essentially, and the feeling of the people being that they charged just exactly what they can get away with.

And the people of Labrador West and Labrador were waiting with the ·greatest degree of optimism to see exactly what action will be taken on the part of this Government~ And unfortunately that Royal Commission report is gathering dust on the shelves, I am sure, because there has been no action taken on it at all. 70C6 T I I I

June 12th. 1970 Tape 1227 PK - 10 HR. BURGESS: During discussions of the estit ·ates on the Board of Liquor Commission last \-leek, we were paying a higher price for liquor and beer than you were paying here in St. John's, But the explanations given to me at that time, I will just wait and see what comes out of some of the statements that were made by Government officials.to see if any change will be brought about in this matter.

Now, Sir, during the official opening of the Habush Mines Complex in Wabush, the hon. the Premier particip~ted in the openinr,, He turned the sod. and he gave a very rousing speech wherein he told the assembled people there not :to worry about the- he recognized the fact that we were isolated there, we did not have any roads to the rest of Canada.

But he did promise in no uncertain terms that at least the roads, the few bush roads that we do have,would be kept open at all times in order that the people could 1 at least'in as far as recreation is concerned, where they could go to - where they could have access to fishing into the lakes, and that they could travel on them by skidoo in the winter in order to do some hunting.

But unfortunately that was just another prontise, that never materialized because these roads are far from accessible or you just cannot ' travel on them, because they are not just being maintained, despite the fact that it would not cost a great amount of money to at least keep these roads in a condition that would let the inhabitants drive over them. But no 70C7

June 12th . , 1970 Tape no. 1228 Page 1 Mr. Burgess. That is too much of an effort also. Now, sir, Labrador Hest ·in terms of radio, there has been some change as far as the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation are concerned - as far as radio reception. Now, since the announcement and since its inception on June 1st, I have not been in Labrador that long that I have noticed what the radio reception·is like, if it has improved, \ole have requesting all along that at least we should have Newfoundland orientated radio programs coming into Labrador West or into Labrador.

Because we have been getting all our radio reception via the Maritimes and we can tell what is happening in the House of Assembly in New Brunswick. \ole can tell what is happening - we hear a daily account of what h.:1ppens in the House of Assembly in Nova Scotia. You have to wait for the newspapers to see what happens in the House of Assembly of our own Province. Now I was told that there would be some upgrading or improvement of this particular set of circumstances in some new innovation that CBC has introduced, and I cannot accurately say whether it has made any improvement or not.

But if there has been no improvement, Mr. Chairman, I wonder if the Minister of Labrador Affairs could tell me, when he is making his references to this department, if he could tell me what the Department of Labrador Affairs will be doing about this • Now on the matter, Mr.

Chairman, of television reception in Labrador West, we have been told, and I have stated it in this House quite often - we have been told that our television will be improved with the launching of the satelite in 1972 by the Federal Department of Communications - a satelite which will circle the equator and that will make instantaneous television available in Labrador.

Now I hesitate to depend - we have had so many promises, and I have lived a short lifetime in Labrador, and I have had so many pi nml ~.,~ I h:1t T Am 1n111t. nett l•rc•J•arotc1 ln AC"I""l'l ton mnny noon·. llut the f~tct of tho matlt!r beio1g that we were told that when this satelite is luunclll!d and mlntl you, Mr. Chairman in 1966 - 1965,1966 we wert~ . told that 70G8

June 12th., 1970 Tape no 1228 Page 2 this satclite was going to be launched in 1968. in 1968, we were told that this satelite was going to be launched in !970. In 1970, we are told that it is goinB to be launched in 1972, and there is no guarantee that in 1972 l~e will not be told that it is going to be launched in 1974 or later. But that,in the event that it is launched in 1972, in the event that it materializes,as stated by Federal Governmental officials, in the event that it does materialize, I see the extreme necessity of establishing receiver stations in Labrador now.

The construction of these receiving stations should be unden ·1ay now in order that when it is launched that we get the signal immediately and not have to \~ait another two years to build the receiving stations. Now I understand that technologically and electronically there is an awful lot involved in providing a televi s ion service in a remote area to the same degree as would be provided to a place such as St. John's or to a larger city like Montreal or Toronto. I understand what is involved technologically.

All we can do is hope that what we are being told is a fact that we will have to wait no longer than 1972 for this. It will not stop us from pushing nonetheless. But what I cannot understand, Mr. Chairman, what I cannot ~nderstand at all is the programing which we receive in Labrador - which the present facilities show us. The present facilities incidentally, Mr. Chairman, having been provided by the Iron-Ore Company of Canada in Labrador West andessentially by the American Air Force in Labrador North.

Now I cannot understand artd I cannot see what red tape is involved· . in not showing more Newfoundland orientated programs on this or to this transmitter. We can get programs - the only two programs that we get in Labrador West that are Newfoundland orientated at all are: ":·:ews Digest" once a week and "Quote and Co111111ent" which "as just recently being sent into us. Now I cannot see, I just fail to see what is involved as far as the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation are concerned or as far as any Government Provincial or Federal authority - I fail to see what is involved 70G9

June 12th., 1970 Tape no. 1228 Page 3 Hr. Burgess. in the shipping of the programs that are normally shown on television on the Island. Mr. Chairman, I cannot emphasize this strongly enough that there are a g!eat percentage of Newfoundlanders in La brad , or, and you have to expose them. You have to expose .them to Newfoundland orientated in television programs, loruer that they remain and feel a part of the Province.

Now I just cannot see what is the difference in shipping film from Toronto or Winnipeg,which is where we get most of our films from - I fail to see what the difference ~ls,~ As a matter of fact, I would venture to say that it is a lot cheaper, an awful lot cheaper as far as the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation are concerned.

It would be cheaper if they were to send the programs with Ne\-7foundland content, of the political affairs, the social affairs of the Island and send them up to Labrador in order that the people who come from the various communities around the Island of Newfoundland can enjoy seeing what is happening and transpiring in their own communities back home. It would certainly help, to a great degree, to alleviate this isolation factor. They would more feel, to a much~degree, a 'part of the Province. I have had meetings with Hr. Davidson of CBC.

I have had meetings with - we met - I have had meetings with various CBC officials and they just threw their hands up and shrugged their shoulders, Mr. Chairman, and said; "well it is red tape." Essentially that is what they are saying. Now I just cannot see what kind of red tape should be allowed to exist that de~rives people who come from one part of a Pro~ince and who go . to reside in the other part of the Province- I just fail to see what kind of red tape can deprive them of contact of this nature with our own Province. t just cannot understand it.

Something has to be done about this matter in order that some upgrading of the television which Wt' rccoiv<> in l.nhrador, aome upgrading in the interim pC'r!od until 70 ~ 1 0

June 12th., 1970 Tape · no 1228 Page 4 Mr. Burgess. Now I am talking about Labrador \-l'e6t where 'l-Ie get some French content, based on the fact that we do have .people from the Province of Quebec living in Labrador. I would like to refer to Churchill Falls Mr. Chairman, and I would like to just read a letter which I received from a resident of Churchill Falls recently where they p,et four hours of television a night - four hours vhich is not very substantial, but it may be what the facilities can provide. I do not knot~.

But here is a typical complaint and this is not the only letter '~hich I have received, Hr. Chairman. It can clarify the situation: "All of the programs are on tape (I am quoting from his letter). '~e are supposed to have four hours of television each night from 7 pm. to 11 p.m. The programs aee from CBC To ron to." He goes on to say:"Why we here in Labrador have to be furnished with Toronto ?" programs is beyond me -why not the programs in St. John's This is essentially the same thing as I have been saying. about Labrador West and Goose Bay.

He goes on to say, "from the start we have had trouble with television transmission here. First there would be pictures without sound or sound without pictures~' Now this is probably a technical proplcm and I suppose it is not too hard to explain it. But he said he has written to the Secretary of State ~dth·:a copy to his Federal member, Mr. Ambrose Peddle. He has written to the Canadian Radio Television Commission and to the district supervisor for CBC programing in St. John's.

" He said; I receivmnothing from any of these people except innocuous replies about troubles to be expected with initial television operation. The excuse usually given for the use of standby tapes is that the original tape was not received but that eKcuse cannot be accepted. Both Quebec-Air and EPA come in every day or came in every day this last week right up to Christmas J~ve." 'l'ld.a was a lettt'r Ju!'lt hP-foru Chr!ntmn·•· "It Up)llll\rt.l lUI !r It WIIQ •imply julll II l:tiiU' or hetllll\ oodLI1~1 lou l~t:r.y ur 7071

June 12th., 1970 Tape no 1228 Page 5 Hr. Burgess. too inconsiderate to bother about going down to the airport to put the tapes on at Christmas, as they should have accorded to the

schedule they put out." In any event to receive on Christmas night programs consisting of (and he goes on to say Hr; Chairman)' 1a silly fat word, putting on a so-called children's program followed by a series of travel logs and then a forty year old movie~ : I can verify that because the movies that they show there come straight out of the museum, Mr. Chairman. Nowhere else could they be f~und.. He goes on to say, "this is a f;tandard standby tape.

In adding insult to injury , this is the kind of television service we receive·\ here in Churchill Falls." He says, "although we are privileged to get four hours of television each night' 1 (with a great degree of sarcasim he says that) "on numerous occasions we have received a lot less. More than once the television has been shut off at 10:15, 10:30 and 10:45 before the 11 p.m deadline and that is the deadline. Nothing is allowed to go beyond 11 p·.m. There was an instance this summer'(and this, Hr.

Chairman, I can verify, because it has happened so often in Labrador West)'' of an Expo baseball telecast bein~ chopped during the last inning, presumably, in this telecast, if it had been left on, it would have gone beyond 11 p.m." Now, Hr. Chairman, CBC do have an obligation.

They have an obl'igation in that they are a publicly owned corporation, that everybody's tax dollar goes to support them ,~and to see cnc being allowed to get a\o~ay with this type of treatment of people of any given region of Canada, to see them being allowed to get away with this type of treatment by our Federal authorities. who have jurisdiction over them,and to see them get away with this tr~ntment, by our Provincial authorities who should be more aware of it than our Federal authorities, lt is just inconceivable as far as I am concerned., absolutely inconceivable. Then, of course, Hr.

Chairman, when you are talking about that type 7072

June 12th., 1970 Tape no 1228 Page 6 Hr. Burgess. of communicp.tions and you refer to the coas'tal region of Labrador well they just do not have - they do not have - in lots of cases, they do not even have a radio let alone television. Nm-1, Hr. Chairman in the Evening Telegram of January 20, there was a letter from a forr.1er resident, a man, a Reverend Francis Buckle, who is presently on Bell Island in his capacity as ministe~ He \·/rote a letter about the problems of Labrador, and unfortunately, '1r.

Chairman, I am in a p6sition to verify practically everything that this gentleman has said, and he said it ll7ith sincerity, I am sure, ln the profession he is in, he is not noted for deviousness. He said it in all sincerity, based on his knowledge of the coast and based on the communications '~hich he has with his various relatives along the coast. And I would like to read part of what he wrote to the papers, Hr. Chairman. HR. CURTIS: Just a minute now. Is he quoting from the papers? l\'e want to know if it is a paper you are quoting. r-m. BURGESS: A photostat copy of the Evening Telegram, Janaury 20. }ffi.

CURTIS: The paper ·must be produced. HR. BURGESS: Is that the rule of the House? }ffi. CURTIS: It is the rule of the House. }ffi. BURGESS: Those are the rules of the House. Okay, we will have to remember them. AN HON. ME!-ffiER: You get to l~arn them after a while. HR. BURGESS: 1 have seen on more than one occasion where the rules of this House seem to be- anyway this gentleman, Mr.

Chairman, dealt with the problems of the people on the Labrador Coast, particularly with regard to employment conditions and the availability of jobs in the induatries, the vastly, wealthy industries in Labrador rtoferrinr, specifically to Churchill Falls and the Ironc-Ore Company in Labrador West. 7 0 ~· :1

June 12th., 1970 Tape no 1228 Page 7 Hr. Burgess. Mr. Chairman, he referred specifically to the fact thnt it is very difficult for the people on the coast to find employment in these growth areas where there is lots of employment available. Now I can verify the fact that - I imagine you would be in a very safe area to say that in the whole of - on the project of Churchill Falls where there is supposed to be somewhere in the region of 6,000 workers this year, I would venture to say that there are less than fifty people from Labrador employed on that project cir not very much more than this number. Now, Mr.

Chairman, I fail to see why this is so. I have dwelt at great length on this before,relative to the }1anpower facilities in Labrador and based on the fact that in lots of cases the people from Labrador may be residing within 100 or a radius of 200 miles from the various projects that are underway there, They have been required in lots of instances, when they apply for jobs and in the event of a job to suit their qualifications being available, I have seen lots of cases where •• MR. IHNSOR: Regarding that statement of his, there are more than 100 people from the coast of Labrador gone into Churchill this spring.

Is he atoJ'are of that? That is twice 50. MR. BIJRGESS: Well up to that time, there were - toJ'ell that means there are 150 from Labrador out of 6,000. HR. WINSOR: They are going in continuously now. }ffi. BURGESS:1<Jell I am very happy to see that, and I think that special attention should be given to this, and I am very happy:to hear the hon. minister say this. I think it is of prime importance particularly to the welfare of the region of Labrador. Now, Hr. Chairman, in the potential for Labrador,essentlally, it is

June 12th., 1970 Tape no 1228 Page 8 Hr. nurgess. in mining, hyclro-pm~er and in some cases, ~,Te have been told that offshore mineral exploration is being developed or explored at this stage and that there is a high possibility that offshore minf'ral exploration could be successful. Now this - in the Labrador Conference this was dealt '~ith to a great degree by people Hho are entirely knowledgeable in this field.And some of them set forth ideas and expounded upon theories that made an at~ful lot of sense and I hope lhat they Hill be listenec:J to by this Governnent.

There were some theodes put fon•ard that there should be a plan instituted nm~ at this stage and not wait until such time, if ever, that these explorations are successful. There should be plans instituted now to train the Labrador people for these jobs and the OnY ~ray they can be trained is by the establishment of technical schools in Labrador. Now I can remember also t~here we had, essentially, a promise from this Government that there would he established in Lnbrador some technical school facilities.

I think at the time that it was talked about, it was the establishmenn of technical school facilities in Labrador \vest in order that people could be trained in the mining industry area and could be tl'ained and given skills t·rhere they could easily fit into the mining operation. Now I think there is a greater need for technical facilities in the Labrador North a~::ea, particularly in the Goose Bay, Happy Valley area - for technical school facilities.

The type of training that should be provided should be designed to exploit or to develop skills in people that would train them in the field of the potential of Labrador, maybe in the development of oil resources or copper resources or uranium resources. It should not necessarily - the establishment of technical school facilities should not necessarily be dcsi~ned after the 7 0 '"~C': j ,)

June 12th., 197 Tape no 1228 Page 9 Hr. Burgess. same type of facilities that are established here on the Island. They should be designed to train the people for the potential of Labrador, and Hr. Chairman, I think this is very, very important - I think this is something that the Department of Labrador Affairs could be actively involved in at this stage, because primarily the establishment of this Department of Labrador Affairs was designed to promote and develop Labrador. AN HON. ME~ffiER: That is right. That is what we arc doin8• HR. BURGESS: Now the - on page (9) as far as education.

The educational factor is I believe - every statesman ell over the world, officials all over the world are recognizing the fact that,bilscd on the highly volatile state of affairs,of world affairs,that we are living in today, everybody seems to feel that education is the ans'1-1er, an education which '~ill make people totally aware of the social problems which they are confronted with. less, sir, to the coast of Labrador. That applies no MR. SHALLWOOD: Would the hon. gentleman allow me. There is not a single soul in the gallery.

It is the first time the hon. gentleman has talked the entire crm~d out of theJChamber, ne,vspapermen, visitors •• ~ffi. BURGESS: I am absolutely delighted. HR. S~·1ALLWOOD: The House is absolutely empty. ~ffi. BURGESS: The hon. Premier - I am sure I must be equalin8 his record in some degree, 21R. SMALLWOOD: It is a record. HR. BURGESS: On more than one occasion the hon. the Premier has done the same thing. MR. SMALLWOOD: I never emptied the House. 7076

., June 12, 1970, Tape 1229, Page 1 ~pb !_!~~Et!:\J~.!:-~~.9.0.P __ ~ __ U.=-R __ .)_:_Never emptied the llouse no NR. BRUGESS: So Mr. Chairman, as far as educational facilities on the coast are . concerned, there werf' also some of these people from the extension department,who are involved in this Labrador Conference,who put forward also some other very good theories as far as Labrador 1s concerned. These were the educational techniques designed to meet the ne~ds of children in isolated conmmni ties. MR. NEARY: We all have a copy of that l-IR.

BURGESS: Suggesting that such techniques as video tape recorders and visual electronic remote blackboards,already used in other parts of Labrador, and these are referring to Labrador \-!est. Sir, this is somethinp that the Department of Labrador Affairs should become involved in. I am quite positive of it. When we talk about Labrador North,t-'r. Chairman, the area of Goose Bay, it is interesting to note the comments Hr.

Chairman, of the former president of the Liberal Association in Goose Bay, }!r. \~oodworth, durinp, this conference, when he expressed an opinion 1.-1hich is in complete accord \d th the opinions that I have been stating in this House for some time. He expressed the opinion,during this conference,that the various discussions were leadin~ to nowhere,as far as this conference was concerned~because they were puttinr the cart before the horse. He went on to say Mr.

Chairman, until Labrador has, an administration that would govern its own affairs, and not have them all scattered over the island, Hr. \~oodworth felt that it was premature to discuss such things. This was endorsed by the chairman of the Chamber of Commerce, Mr. Rompky, And this is essentially what I have been saying for quite a long time Hr. Chairman; that when we talk about representation, the affairs of Labrador have to be governed and guided by people who essentially live in Labrador and who are aware of the changing problems and the problems that exist.

I am not saying that the hon. minister is not familiar with the coastal communities, but. unfortunately his statements about the functions of the Department of Labrador Affairs, when nskeJ exactly what it meant, , he repUcd that it was set up as a liaison department between the people of Lnbrnc:lor. nnc:l the other departments of Government, This is not what the Act 7 0 ·; 7

June 12, 1970, Tape 1229, Page 2 -- apb states, and this is not the primary design of the thing - of the departm ent. Now Mr. Chairman, durinp- the discussion on fishcr1 es yesterday, I felt that I could make a few statements about the coast, as far as fisheries were concerned. And I was informed by someone,who is much more knowledf.eable as far as House rules are concerned, that it would be more rightly discussed in Labrador Affairs. So, I will do this,dcsp:lte the facl that I have driven everybody out of the p.allery,as the- bon. l'rcm:ler h;w pointed out. I must be drawing a few more in now.

But 1 was discussinr, , S:Ir, the development of the fisheries in Labrador, and the number of fishermen involved who make their livinF: on the coast of Labrador from the South to the .· North, From Nain right down to Forteau. According to statistics compiled by Prince Dyke,at the Request of the Department of Labrador Affairs, the statistics say that there are a total - in total there are slightly over 2,000 fishermen employed, or "1ho make their living on the coast of Labrador. and some of these are stationers who come from the Island of Newfoundland and travel to the Labrador during the fishinr. season.

Now, during the various trips that I have made to these coastal corranunities Hr. Chairman, I failed to see that when it is not possible to fish, how these people make any kind of a livinp whatsoever. Well, they exist, but there is no great degree of affluency because they do not have any year-round industry. I fail to see,Mr. Chairman, and in discussion tdth quite a numher of people from the coast I fail to see why thereare not some small frozen fish plants established in various strategic locations on the coast of Labrador.

I am informed by people,who are knowledgeable in the fisheries, that for one million dollars at least between five and ten frozen fish plants could be established along the coast. Nothing elaborate, but enough to provide employment for a great number of people in the corranunities, and for a great number of fishermen who would supply these frozen fish plants. AN HON. MEHBER: ------- .... ~ I would like to remind the speaker, that his time has run out. HR. BtiRC:f~ SS: Mr. ChAirman, I thoupht thf'n• 'WAR unl1mit£'d timr on f'!:tlmnt('s. AN llllf'\ . ITI'rli\I'H : ll.,rlnllr-ly no•l

June 12, 1970, Tape 1229, Page 3 -- apb AN liON • HE11BER : (Inaudible) ?-1R. CHAIR}IAN: Yes, 44(a)limits the time of speaking, sets up the rules of committee, I am sorry. }1R. ROBERTS: Mr. Chairman, "the Standinp. Orders of the House shall be observed in the the Committee of the Whole House so far as may be applicable, except~Standing or:ders as to the seconding of motions and limitinr the number of ti~es of speaking." I think that is the relevant rule Mr. Chairman. ?-1R. BURGESS: Just the number of times of speaking, MR. ROBERTS: I could not interpret the rules Hr. Chairman, but that is standing Order 44(

a) and also 44(

b) might be of interest to the Committee. "Speeches in Con~ittee of the Whole must be strictly relevant to the item or clause under consideration." AN BON. ME!-rBER: (Inaudible) MR. ROBERTS: I am sorry I did not hear the hon. gentleman, what was that? AN HON. I'U:MBER: (Inaudible) MR. CHAIRHAN: Standing Order 49 MR. ROBERTS: Standing Order 49, ~· No member, except the Premier and the Leader of the Opposition or Minister moving a government order and member speaking in reply should speak for more than ninety minutes at any time, in any debate." That is Standing 'order 49. MR. BURGESS: Mr.

Chairman, if somebody would accurately, I know the hon. Minister of Health has tried to define, I think he did mention the fact that he cannot interpret 44 (

a) I believe it was, but I would like a ruling on this as to whether it is possible. This is limiting the number of times to speak. This is my first time on spe~king on it. MR. ROBERTS: No, no. Mr. Chairman, if I may, it does not limit the number of times the hon. gentleman may speak, he may speak presumably on each item, but, it does apparently limit ~ now we have never, we have been very free in committee Mr. Chairman, but the bon. gentleman has gone on for two or three minutes. If he were perhaps drawing to a close,Mr. Chairman might turn a blind eye to that, but really there has to be Mr.

Chairman, I think, some we arP still on 19-01-01, the mlnister's salary, and maybe if we could draw 707B

June 12, 1970 Tape 1229~ Page 4 - - apb. it to a close. MR CHAI~~N: Shall we give the hon. gentleman more time? MR ROBERTS: We can give him a few more minutes. Sure! We are not r,oing to be ·unreasonable. MR BURGESS: Mr. Chairman, I would like an

interpretation of the Rules of the House. I would like a strict

interpretation of the House Rules. MR CHAIRMAN: Standing Order 44(

a) does not overrule Standing Order 49, limiting time of debate. Limit of time of speaking: MR BURGESS: Mr. Speaker, can you rule that time is up? MR CHAIRMAN: I rule that time is up. MR BURGESS: Mr. Chairman, I respectfully contest your ruling. MR CHAIRMAN: Call in the Speaker. On motion Mr, Speaker resumed the Chair: MR HODDER: Mr. Speaker, in the debate, the hon. member for Labrador West, speaking on Labrador Affairs Estimates, ran up to ninety minutes of time, speaking on an item. I rules according to Standing Orders 44(

a) and 49. He questioned my ruling. I would like to bring this to your atten~ion. MR SPEAKER: The Motion before the House is: "That the ruling of the Chairman of Committee be sustained", Those in favour "Aye", contrary "Nay". In my opinion the "Ayes" have it, and the ruling is sustained. This is a hypothetical question, in one sense, but in all fairness I think it would be all right if I said this: In committee (this is the first time it has happened since I know) I know this ninety minutes time limit is the limit for the length of time a member can speak, whether he is in committee or whether he is speaking in the House itself. The only 7080

June 12, 1970 Tape 1229 Page 5, - - apb. thing is that it has not occurrex before, because nobody has attempted to use ninety minutes in any one session that we have had. As to the number of times: He can talk ninety minutes for any number of times that he catches the Chairman's eye and he can make as many speeches as is provided for in the Rules. He can speak more than once, under the Rules but not a continuous speecp. MR. SMALLWOOD: (J.R.): He can make the same speech every ninety minutes? MR SPEAKER: That comes under 'needless repetition.

MR BURGESS: There is so little said about Labrador that it deserves - MR MYRDEN: On the next item he can. Mr. Speaker left the Chair: COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY: MR CHAIRMAN: Shall Item 1 carry? MR. MURPHY: Mr. Chairman, just before we carry this, there are one or two short questions I would like to ask. I do not know if the hon. member for Labrador West has covered it, but I have received some queries as to freight rates on fish. Has that been discussed? This was brought to my attention the other day, and this is in particular in Labrador City, where the rate on E.P.A. was twenty cents a pound.

A protest was made, and I think it was reduced to twelve cents, but only on Fridays. Is this an actual fact? I would like to ask the Minister, when he is replying. There are just one or two other questions. MR WINSOR: No request was made to our department. MR MURPHY: Is the Minister aware of this? MR. WINSOR: No • MR HURPIIY: He fa not. I have been informed that they have reduced the r-ate, I thtn~. In twolva cnnt" a pound from twenty cents. No, Air Canada was just about half that rat~, I am ref~rrinR to F..P.A. I do not know 7081 if anybody in the House has had the same representation, hut I would llkr

June 12, 1970, TApe 1229, Page 6 -- apb to ~et it strairhtened out. They cut the freirht rate. And the only day they can ret fish into Labrador (I am talkinp about fresh fish) is on Friday from St. John's, and they figure out if it leavinp, St. John's on Friday, no one basically has fish for the weekend. Friday is the day possibly they would want it. I 't-10Uld just like to have the matter cleared up and I am putti.nf! it before the committee now. Hith reference to Churchill Falls - have we ever had a Lreakdown? the hon. minister throup.h his department, we know the number of people workinp at Churchill.

I think the Premier enlightened us all the other day on this. What is the actual distribution of wages in Churchill Falls? In other words, that . the money11s com1ng into Newfoundland, and the monies that are not, out of the total payroll. \nth reference to income tax, anybody residinp. in Churchill Falls I presume for the year automatically pays. This Province would receive that portion of the income tax rather than perhaps in the case of Ouebecers, rather than Ouebec. I would just like to have these two points straiRhtcned up for me.

That is the amount of monies, if it is available the percentape of cash that comes to Ne'1-1foundland. The reason I ask this, only this morning I was speakinp. to a younr man just outside the door there and he had just returned from Churchill Falls. A short while ago there were thirty-five carpenters needed, of which only four I think "~<lere recruited from Newfoundland. His room-mate actually, ( and this chap was an electrician), his room-mate was from Winnipeg, who was a carpenter, and he was somewhat amazed to find that we could not find this number of carpenters here in this Province.

He intimated that I think a lot of us feel that we are going to be the muckers - the Newfoundlanders - in the Freat majority of cases, getting the lowest grade of wages,

whereas others from outside are in the higher, and he felt that although the proportion of Newfoundlanders to Quebecers is not the best, but fairly good, the proportion of "a~es beinr. paid, is far, far out of line with the great majority of hirhcr wages and better job going to the Province of Quebec. 7082

June 12, 1970, TApe 1229, Pap,e 7 -- apb I say I would like to have that, if there is any means 01 gett1n, . it. The other question of course, is, with rcferenc~ to the payment of l . income tax by the residents of Churchill Falls, which is :In the Province of Newfoundland, and does all that shared tax, the Provincial share,come here or does it go to the Province of Quebec, or Manitoba, or wherever thesP people actually came from. They may he in Churchill Falls one or tv1o yC'ars. Could I be enliphtened on th:ls,Mr. Chairman] MR. WmSOR: Well Mr.

Chairman, that is a monumental task to find out, nnd I am sure the Minister of Finance has taken notice of this, and he probably will endeavour in due time to - the question is; the people workers at Churchill Falls,who are working there from outside of the Province, to whom do they contribute their income tax. I think that is the ..•...• MR. 1-!URPHY: \Vhat share do we ret in this Province from people residing in Churchill Falls for one and a-half or two years?

Although they are not actually Newfoundland born, perhaps Quebec born or some other.' l~ould Newfoundland. as such~receive the share of personal income tax? MR. SHALLWOOD: Of course. -------- HR. MURPHY: We do? MR. S!·1ALLivOOD: --······ -··- ... ----- · Of course. they pay their personal income tax to the Government of Canada from Newfoundland, and the Newfoundland Government takes their share of that amount. You get all personal income tax first, and then in addition we impose our own personal income tax, or this House did,and Otta"-•a collects. AN HON. HEMBER: Ottawa collects it all and we •..•.•.. MR.

ROBERTS: Mr. Chairman, the b~sic rule,as laid down in the Federal - Provincial agreements is that the Province '!-!here money is earned is the Province which gets from Ottawa 1 under tax rental agreements. ~fR. 1-IURPHY: In other words, all these Quebecers file through ...•.• HR. ROBERTS: Well 'Hr. Chairman, even if they file in Ouebec, the money is still at the Ottawa level credited back to us. Because you see, on the income tax formf1r. Chairman will realize, it says employer, and that is the magic word ••••....•• 70G3

June 12, 1970, Tape 1229, Pape 8 -- . apb ~...:_)_1~!'~~-:_ · This is a fact; that is a1.1 I want to know because, I have been led to believe otherwise. 'HR. ROBEP.TS: ~ - ----- --~·- -- The place of domicile makes no difference. The same with a national corporation like Simpsons or Eastons. There is attributed to Newfoundland a portion of - for example; Eatons profits, assuminr, they make some representing a proportion of their business done in this Province, I do not know how it works in detail, but I have always been told by the officials that it does happen.

If they earn their money here, why should they not pa~personal . I income tax, and why should not the Province where they earn it ge~ its share of that? I wanted to find that out, because, I had ~eard otherwise and I did not think it was right. You earn your money - I think you have to be there a year or so. ~~~-OBERT~:_ We have always been told that they do, that is why it takes three years to settle up the exact amounts due us. ~..R. MURPHY: Thank you Mr. Chairman. }!R. BURGESS: Mr.

Chairman, I think that I just stated that there arc - ·----- approximately 2,000 fishermen, and I do not see the reason why, particularly with the million dollar grant which the Federal Government applied to Northern Labrador, one million dollar ~rant per year from the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development, why you cannot have established in strategic locations in Labrador the frozen fish plants which would give gainful employment to a greater number of people than the 2,000 people presently engaged in the fishery, and it would generate, we would have industry, something substantial in a lot o~ communities in Labrador.

I would also like to say Mr. Chairman, that I cannot see why only 215,000 of this one million dollars which is allocated by Ottawa per year, $2.6 million has only been spent over six years when $6 million could have been spent. I just fail to see the reasoning there. That money is there for the dcvl~ lopmen t and it is not beinp utilized. I would assume it is because the Province cannot match their contribution in this endeavour. 70:>1 I .

June 12, 1970, Tape 1229, Page 9 -- ~pb Anyway Mr. Chairman, the bon. Leader of the Oppo~ition reminded me of something, and it was when he referred to Churchill Falls. In Clturchill Falls Mr. Chairman, I have stated in this House on more than one occasion, that conditions there are not all that they are built up to be in terms of conditions, l±ving ·conditions, that essentially every man with any de~ree of pride at all realizes the fact that he lives in a free country, Unfortunately he cannot be made to feel that this is a fact, when, he is in Churchill Falls.

And I regret the fact that even on your way into Churchill Falls ,if you are on Eastern Provincial Airways, and you are not actually destined for Churchill Falls, you are warned by the stewardess or the steward_, whatever you like, that you should not get off the aircraft at Churchill Falls. They say it pretty emphatically Mr. Chairman. In the event that you do get off and you walk into the air terminal the first thing that greets you in the foyer is the ropes surrounding the lobby at the airport, and there is a big security guard.

I am sure he is picked for his size, and he is standinp, there and anybody coming in is processed through a little glass fronted room on~he side, and you have to go through three or four processes. You have to become a member of a union, you have to become - get your identification card and so on. Now I can see the efficiency of this type of an operation, effic1encv is certainly to be recognized, -but, that degree of efficiency is not or docs not fit into the system that we know of being very democratic.

This system was, what I am saying was essentially proved in the instance of the two gentlemen who were on the news media here last week by the name of Tremblett, Gus and Fred Tremblett. These people ~r. Chairman, were involved in an off the job fracas. · Now one of them was 70C5

June 12, 1970 Tape #1230 Page 1 JW MR. BURGESS: quite honest and he did not try to hide anything - he said, he was in the tavern, he got drunk and he got involved in a fight, a fist . fight with a french Canadian and hi~ other, I believe,more sober type stepped into either assist him, or to break the fight up, and they were both immediately picked up by the security, not the R.C.M.P. and they were thrown in jail over-night they were kept in jail for seventeen hours. And Mr.

Chairman, it is interesting to note, and they have stated this on Television - they were kept in jail for seventeen hours without water, without food and one of these men happens to suffer from an asthma condition - he could not even get his pills. And this has been verified by a doctor, that he does suffer from a chronic asthma condition. For seventeen hours they were penned up by the authorities in the jail in that area, and the R.C.M.P. maybe they had forgotten about them- but the R.C.M.P. who had possession of the keys, had left the area to go fishing oft some other part of the project.

And there was just no access to them at all. So if anything had happened, they would have had to break the door down, if the place had caught on fire, to get those people out. Besides that not even thinking to those extreme degrees, the plain simple fact that men being locked up in our Province for seventeen hours without water - without food - without the provision of drugs for a man who did suffer from a chronic condition, This is, absolutely intolerable, and worse than that Mr. Chairman, the most unfair aspect of this, and I believe this may have been dealt with through a degree by the hon.

Minister of Justice. These men were fined - these men were fined before they were shipped out of the area by the authorities. They were fined, and I have a photostatic copy of the money that they paid, the bond that they paid, a fifty dollar fine. In other words - even if they were convicted in a Court of law Mr. Chairman, this is all that they would be fined, this fifty dollars. This is is essentially what" the type of cost for being involved in a practice of this nature. These men have already paid their fines, and they were supposed to appear in Court in Churchill Falls yesterday,Mr. Chairman.

The law specified that they should appear in Court yesterday. And these gentlemen, one of them who feels very strongly that he should not have been locked up, and he should never have become involved in the law, wanted to go back 7086

June 12, 1970 Tape 01230 Page 2 JW to contest his case and he could not purchase a ticket to go into Churchill Falls, and they were supposed to appear in Court in Churchill Falls ycsterd0y. this Now,, is because obviously instructions have been given to somebody that they were not to go into Churchill Falls. Now Sir, I did hear a statement attributed, I only heard it on radio - I did not hear the hon.

Minister of Justice say this, but I did hear a statement attributed to him, wherein he said, he would see that there was no need for these people to go back to Churchill Falls, and that possibly the charges would be dropped. Hell I respectfully submit Sir, that if the charges are dropped in this case for any reason, that these men are no longer guilty of an offense and should be rehired immediately. And with compensation for all lost time. I respectfully submit Sir, as the only just way of handling this specific problem.

And these men - it was not possible for them to travel in their own Province back to defend themselves in court action, tf this is justice Mr. Chairman, there are some civil liberties involved in this the somewhere along the line, and the situation to have this exist , with knowledge of some of our provincial authorities,is intolerable. And the facts can be easily ascertained. MR. SMALL\o100D: If the facts are as the hon. gentleman suggests they are, then it is completely intolerable. We should not tolerate it for one split second, and these men should be reinstated.

If on the other hand, it is a matter of peace and good order down there, that is another matter. I do not like the thought of Newfoundlanders and French Canadians getting into fights - because if that can happen in Labrador it can happen in Quebec. There are an awful lot more Newfoundland~rs in Quebec than there are Quebecers in Labrador, or in Newfoundland. And that sort of thing starts,the people who are going to come off second best are Newfoundlanders. And maybe that is what is back of this, I do not know. But if the facts are simply,as the bon. gentleman just said, •then it is an intolerable situation.

Common justice demands better treatment than that. MR. BURGESS: Was the hon. Premier aware of the fact that these men were 70n7

June 12, 1970 Tape 01230 Page 3 .JW supposed to appear in court? MR. SMALLI~OOD: Yes, but I understand that this thing - I do not know - ?-IR. ROBERTS: This is a matter that is presently before the courts of the Province, and I am not so sure that we should go into in any detail - I think the points have been well made, but it is a matter that it is before the courts, and I think it might be sub judice, MR. JIURGESS: I npprecinte what the hon. mini11tcr fR Hnylnr. nnd it mnk(~H n lot of sense, But on Televi11ion and on Radio the statements of the hon. Minister of Justice - MR.

ROBERTS: Well we are investigating it. HR. S~ iALLimOD: I can only check with the minister and find out what is happening. ?oiR. BURGESS: I am glad that the Premier sees it in ~hat light. And I have no reason to believe that conditions were not the way these gentlemen presented it to me. And I am aware of the fact positively that they were not allowed to proceed to Churchill Falls. ?-iR. S~~LWOOD: Tentatively the case has been postponed, It might be called say 1996 or 1997 or say the Fall of 1998. Or may be heard hear in St. John's. The point the hon. gentleman has made is a good point.

If injustice has been done these two Newfoundlanders, the job of the Government is to see that it is undone. And we are ~o government if we do not do it. MR. BURGESS: Could we say then;if their case is going to be held in 1998, these gentlemen should be employed in Churchill Falls until 1998 in that case~ · ?oiR. CURTIS: We do not want you to be in the House when the case comes up. MR. BURGESS: ------ That is very courteous of the bon. gentleman. I am sure he means it too. Now Mr. Chairman, I am afraid,as boring as it may be to hon. gentlemen,! am not finished yet.

I would like to make reference to Goose Bay and the various statements that we have heard relative to Goose Bay and its future, and to the Happy Valley area. The matter of the road, particularly from Churchill Falls to Goose Bay. Now Mr. Chairman, in the 7088

June 12, 1970 Tape il1230 Page 4 JW Estimates for the Department of Highways,two years ago, we saw an expenditure of $2.5 million for the construction of this road, and then last year nothing in the Estimates, and this year nothing in the ERtimates, and I was continually making a point Mr. Chairman, that - well the money that has been spent has been wasted because the sections of road that have been built will have to be completely upgraded at possibly the same expense as opening the thing up originally.

But the fact of the matter being Sir, that the people of Goose Bay need this road and I think that it would be in the - certainly a great benefit - it would b~ of great benefit to Labrador North if this road link connecting Labrador West and Labrador North were established - even if it meant handing the finishing of the road or requesting that the companies involved should complete the road. I am talking about the Churchill Falls Corporation, and the various companies that are involved. Now Mr.

Chairman, it was evident to all concerned and particularly to our finance minister, I am quite sure, that during the very unfortunate tie-up of the strike on the Quebec North shore and Labrador Railway, which is the only land link that we have with the rest of Canada - the cost to the Department of Finance of this Province,based on the lay-6ffs that occurred on account of this strike, must have been very evident to the Department of Finance. And the cost that was involved ~s far as the Churchill Falls Corporation was concerned and the cost of this project, it rnusthave been absolutely fantastic Mr. Chairman.

Now I would warrant to say and there are people who would be in a far better position than I to state this categorically, but I would venture to say that that road could have been, by virtue of what it cost these people in additional transportation costs, and I witnessed in Seven Islands - I witnessed a big cargo plane - these big Transport Carriers, I witnessed them taking off and landing every half an hour, shipping and.transporting supplies, heavy equipment . tractors and every conceivable thing you could possibly think of - food and everything else into Churchill Falls.

And I am sure that the cost aa far aa the delay is concerned - delay in the 7009

June 12, 1970 Tape 1/1230 Page 5 JW scheduling of the project, and the delay in the cost of paying for transporting all of the necessities by air, must have been absolutely fantastic - and I would say that it was more than equal the cost that•would have been needed to finish that road. And I think that this Province has a responsibility to recognize that a situation like this could occur tomorrow, And I kid this House not, when I say that,Mr. Chairman, because there are talks of another shut-down on the Q-Nationale Railroad, and they are being carried on right this minute.

And it only involves thirteen people in traffic control, and these people are stationed in Seven Islands or involved in the operation of the Railway. And these people are in the midst of negotiations, or have broken off negotiations, unless something has transpired in the last day or two that I do not know of. But these people are in the midst of making a decision to go on strike, and the same situation that we were faced with last June, July and August, we could be faced with again, and Churchili Falls could be faced with exactly the same situation.

And I think it is of paramount importance,to this Government and to the welfare of that project and to the welfare of the country as a whole,that this road be completed in order that there be no essential hang-ups because of the one link that this project has with the bringing of supplies in from the rest of the world, I think it is of paramount importance that they establish another link. And this link would be of tremendous benefit to Goose Bay, in that, if this link was established, and was there and useable , that a lot more equipment would be cheaper.

A.nd this has been specified by knowledgeable persons, including the Minister of Transport; that it could be done on a much cheaper basis, by bringing supplies in to Goose Bay by ship. and then transporting by road to Churchill Falls. And I think that this is of absolutely paramount importance and the logic of it cannot be denied by anybody.

And it would also generate a little financial feelings in the area of Labrador North, and it would generate some kind of business and everything else, and it would also give the people psychologically a link with at least another part of Labrador,as far as land links are concerned. And I just fail to see why more importance is not attached to this road, and under the present 70:)0

.June 12, 1970 Tape IJ1230 Page 6 set of circumstances, I fail to see why it was started in the first plac~, and a waste of $2.5 million out of the Province's treasury. I just do not see why - even if it does necessitate handing the job of construction over to the companies involved, well then I think it should be done. And without any further delay whatsoever. JW Now Mr.

Chairman, I was going to say an integral part of this Province, but I am afraid I would not be completely honest with myself if I said that - but the fact of the matter is that Labrador,being a part of this Province, was excluded from the ARDA agreement - it is now excluded from both the industrial Incentives Act and the Regional IncentiveR Act of DREE, and the maps, I am sure the han. minister involved is more knowledgeable of this, of what we are excluded from - and even the federal DREE representative, they recently toured the Island of Newfoundland - bu!= did they go to Labrador? AN HON.

MEMBER: No, they did not go to Labrador. MR. BURGESS; Goose Bay has been designated especially for DREE funds for schools I believe. It has been designated a special area, and I would like to know what is the Department of Labrador Affairs, or the Department of Community and Social Development doing to provide development funds for the southern pal;"t of Labrador.

Now as I mentioned to the han. }linis.tter of Social Services and Rehabilitation the other day; recognizing the fact it comes under his department, the Northern nevelopment, the Federal authorities have allocated this million dollars, but why was Labrador itself excluded? There are people in Labrador South Mr. Chairman, they are livyers there, and they are undergoing practically the same - they are living with the same problems - they are undergoing exactly the same mode of life - practically as the people in the north.

And they are of Indian and Eskimo extraction from possibly hundreds of years back, and I cannot see why Labrador South was included or excluded from this Federal grant - why it should not equally apply to the southern coast of Labrador as it does to the northern regions. But Indians and Eskimos - the livyers on the coast are underp,oing exactly the same way of life as Indians and Eskimos, exactly. And there is absolutely no difference. The livyers there arc faced with exactly the same problems as Indians and Eskimos. The people on the coAst can certainly 7 0 :) I

· June 12, 1970 Tape 01230 Page 7 are of relate, and as I said in lots of cases they _,lndian and Eskimo blood from way back. The livyers are going through essentially the same thing. MR. JONES: Will the hon. gentleman permit a question? My question is this: Can he be prepared to repeat the statement he has just made here in Committee that the people in Southern Labrador and the Straits of Belle Isle possibly have - are partly Indian and Eskimo. Would he be prepared to repeat that statement in that area? iMR. BURGESS: Mr.

Chairman, if the minister would read what is in the Labrador conference, he would find out that these are statements made by some of the people themselves. Some of the people themselves. These are the people who held the conference, who undertook it on themselves to take - to hold a conference because they felt that they were a separate entity. And they have been asking for assistance from all g~vernment departments, both Provincial and Federal. And they see some groups who are given this assistance by virtue of the Northern Development - AN HON. MEMBER: By the Government of Canada - MR.

BURGESS: The Government of Canada, I appreciate that. I appreciate it is the Government of Canada. I appreciate that a lot of our problems are within the jurisdiction of the G overnment of Canada - but that does not JW mean that the local representation - strong representation should not be made to the Federal Government · to make them aware of our problems.

It is awfully easv to discount this by saying you are opentag a can of worms, or this, that and the other - you have to take cases - individuals on their merit, and these people are deprived of a goodly number of the things that the people on the Island are not deprived of.

And a great number of things On the Labrador Coast they do not - in lots of cases - even the Federal Government was inconsiderate enough, based probably on information that they had received - it could have been misleading information from Bell Telephone - when they removed this radio and telegraph system from the coast - they did it on the assumption, or on the information that they had, that Bell Telephone was immediately going to install this facility. But they did not do it, and they were not in a position to provide it. So it meant for a great period ?OJ~

June 12, 1970 Tape 01230 Page 8 of time this facility, which was the only communication these people have, was removed - just by a decision,somebody in Ottawa made the decision, .JW and it was removed.

I believe that the hon. minister may have been involved, would agree with this - but some of the areas have been re-established, and maybe Bell Telephone have established their operation in other areas, but the plain simple fact of the matter is that it was removed without consultation obviously · _they could not have consulted with the minister, Otherwise he would have told them that the Bell Telephone was not ready. And it took all kinds of represent~tions, telegrams and personal representations to Ottawa before they understood this matter.

I do not think you can say that if you start to apply one set of conditions to any given area of Labrador South or the Labrador coast, that you are opening a can of worms elsewhere. That just does not make sense. MR. WINSOR: Will the hon. gentleman permit me~while he is on this subject - Last Fall when I was aware that they were closing down some of their stations in Labrador, I visited Ottawa and consulted with the Department of Transport officials. And as a result of that meeting, some of the services were re­ instated.

Now Bell Telephone undertook to make improvements in their service, and Sir, if the Committee will permit me, I have a letter in my possession, dated May 29, and it is addressed to me. And it says; "Dear Sir, Following your meeting of last Fall with the J.L.C. and considering your concern for improved communications in Labrador, we wish to advise you of our progress to date. Improved circuits capable of providing privacy and two-way conversation have been put in service for Red Bay, Mary's Harbour and Fox Harbour.

The same type of circuits will be made available by the beginning of the summer for the following location: Port Hope Simpson, Henley's Harbour, Pitt's Harbour, Cape Charles, Battle Harbour, George Cove, William's Harbour, Fishing Ships Harbour, Vincent's Arm, Square Islands. Charlottetown, and Lodge Bay. We are also proceeding with the work required to service Cartwright with a circuit similar to the type mentioned above. This work should be completed this summer." And this letter, I do not want to read the remaining 7 0!) :l

June 12, 1970 Tape 1/1230 Page 9 part of it. But this is signed by L. W. Ball, Manager of the N.E.T. in Quebec. MR. BURGESS: I appreciate that, and I am JW

June 12th, 1970 Tape 1231 JM - 1 MR. BURGESS: quite sure that when it was known the hon. Minister made representation. I am not disputing this at all and I am sure he had a good deal to do with it but it still does not get away from the fact, Mr. Chairman, that this decision was made obviously without consultation with anybody involved or knowledgeable with this thing. This certainly does not create the impression for me of a vital Department of Labrador Affairs that would he contacted on any matter about Labrador. It automatically should be because, Mr.

Chaihnan,I am of the distinct imp~ession that Labrador is one of the most neglected areas in Canada as far as Governments are concerned because, I have sai.d this before that we are not far enough North, we are mid-North, we are not far enough North to benefi.t from Federal programs that apply to Northern regions of Canada and we are not far enough South certainly to benefit from all the activity that goes on within a couple of miles of our border with the United States. Labrador seems to he a forgetten entity and I had great hopes for it when the Department of Labrador Affairs was established.

I felt that,okay! this was going to solve a lot of our problems but it has done the opposite really. MR. WINDSOR: I do not think you are being honest there. MR. BURGESS: On the matter of Goose Bay, Mr. Chairman, the fact of the matter, what happened relative to the various promises that were made in Goose Bay to the people,with the establishment of a second industry in Goose Bay,and whjch did not materialize was a very damaging blow to the moral, if nothinp, else, of the people of Goose Bay. Now, Mr •.

Chairman, we have in that regjon of Lake Melville and down in the Southern Coast we have some of the most valuable resources that this Province has in terms of timber. Now if the timber resources are going to be developed . and the resources of the Province exploited and utilized there has to be a greater return to Labrador itself, to the liviers in Labrador, the people who have taken up residence in Labrador and there has to be a greater return on the resources that are being utilized and taken out of Labrador. Now the establishment of a chip mill there in the Goose Ray area would have been a very natural thing.

Nobody has adequately 70:;5

June 12th, 1970 Tape 1231 JM - 2 MR. BURGESS: described to me, it must have been an economic decision to have the whole complex in Stephenville, obviously that was it. I would say it must have been an economic decision. Now nobody can deny, when people get up and explain or describe to you the economics of any given situation any given industry,you have to certainly understand it. But the plain simple fact of the matter, Mr. Chairman, is this that the economics of that industry must have been understood before the time that this chip mill was promised in Goose Bay.

I mean circumstances do not change that fast and suddenly overnight we. decide,"Well, goodness we have to establish this facet of the industry right along side the processing." Now where does it leave, granted the explanations we received of an expanded industry, it was not a reduced industry it was an expanded industry that was supposed to be coming into Goose Bay. There were going to be more loggers in there than the Province could provide,But what is that going to mean in terms of the permanent residents in Goose Bay and everybody there is not geared.

There are not too many men in Goose Bay who will be, you know in the event of a reduction on the base at the present, I cannot foresee the day when you see 7,000 people or every man, woman, and child who desires employment I cannot see them going off in the woods with chain saws because they just are not equipped to do this type of work. Now what is it going to mean in terms of Goose Bay, this expanded operation? Okay, assuming that it pans out the way we have been told, that we do get thousands of men in there, it will necessitate the building of homes.

If all of these men that we are told will work there, if they do come in 1 it will need the building of homes, it will necessitate the building of boarding houses, it will necessitate the building of hotels and restaurants and so on. It would have to generate business, nobody is denying this. But what about the livier, what about the person who considers Goose Bay his home? Now this was expressed once again in very clear terms by Mr.

Woodward, the President of the Liberal Association in Goose Bay1 and he stated that he has confidence in T.nhr:~rlor. he has :Invested a lot of money, he has · made a lot of money in l.~tltnttlnr hut hro i11 tnktnp, 11 dumC'C1 hut whnt hl' is snyinp, <'ssentially is that 7 0 !Hi

June 12th, 1970 Tape 1231 .JM - 3 MR. BURGF.SS: we should consider Goose Bay, we should consider Labrador in the context of Labrador soley and not have the middle men of every operation exist here on the Island,which in turn generates a higher rate or cost of consumer goods to the person who lives in Labrador. Now he had a statement here, Mr. Chairman, t~hich I thought was very pertinent to the point and I tV'ould like to read it to you. The statement which I am looking for, Mr. Chairman, I just misplaced it there and I would like to read it because it is pertinent to what I am sayinr,.

Until I find that state- ment which is pertinent to that, Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask the hon. Minister of Labrador Affairs if he is aware of a situation which exists in his district on the American base at Goose Bayl Is the hon . Minister aware of the fact that there are quite a number of married couples from the Island here living apartl Maybe they are tV"orking in two different departments on the American base and maybe the wife is working in the capacity as waitress and the husband is working in the capacity of cashier in one of the clubs or some- thing like that. Is the hon.

Minister aware of the fact that there are at least thirty couples living on the base because of the fact of the rigid regulations laid down by the Base Commanding Officer or the established authorities on the base that these people cannot live together, the man is residing in men's quarters and the wife is residing in the women's quarters despite the fact that there is a lot of accomodation available on the base, homes that are vacant and are available, A lot,of these people, some of them I might add, Mr.

Chairman, who have been working there for quite sometime, and despite the fact of housing being available they just cannot live together as a normal married couple would . I do not think that this is very, very fair on the part of the nation who are occupying our territory or who are maintaining a strategic base on our territory or in our Province or in our country. Despite the fact of accomodations being available they have the native population living under abnormal conditions. I was just wondering if the hon. Minister was aware of this fact • that · there are a goodly number of these couples.? MR.

WINDSOR: For a long time. MR. BURGESS: And there ia nothinp, that can he done,ohviouRly. 70J7

June 12th, 1970 Tape 1231 .JM - '• HR. WINDSOR: Not within the jurisdiction of the American Base. MR. BURGESS: Well, would there be a possibility of them providing some thin!: outside of the American Base since actually they are employees of the American Government! MR. WINDSOR: Hr. Chairman, some of those people living there have been l:!vinr, in Happy Valley but they elect to live on the base and there is nothfnr, we can do about it. American USAF cannot find the accomodations for them.

They do not want to live off the base,so it is an unfortunate situation but it is more or less a choice of their agreeing with living on the base rather than living in Happy Valley. ~fR. BURGESS: The hon. Minister is saying that the people do not desire to live off the base. MR. WINDSOR: Right. MR. BURGESS: Well, since he has indicated that he is knowledgeable on this situation maybe he has talked to more of them than I have. But I can say this with a great degree of certainty, Hr. Chairman and Mr.

Minister, that the ones that I have talked to have not expressed that feeling to me although I am not denying that some of them may have expressed it to the hon. Minister. MR. WINDSOR: They want accomodation together on the base and th~ Americans just cannot provide it,so they say. MR. BURGESS: Well, I certainly hope that something is done on their behalf. Mr.

Chairman, when the Department of Labrador Affairs was establisherl.as I stated yesterday,a lot of the things that I have been annunciating or sayinr. in this House for the last year are essentially the same things that were said by the members of the present Government when the Department was established.

I cannot see why the rapid change in thinking or why the Department bogr,ed down to the degree that it did because when we think of exactly what this Department should provide,· essentially.as outlined in the Act which created the Department, it should help to promote and develop Labrador. 8ut I maintain, Sir, that this is not what it is doing. I want to make it quilt· clear, Hr. Chairman, that this is with no degree of disrespect or anything townrds the people who are employed in the Department itself because,as T s~irl yPstPrrlay. 7 0 ') 'J

June . 12th, 1970 Tape 1231 JM - :; "MR. RURGESS: Mr. Chairman, they are only doinr, l-lhat they are told and they are only world nr, within the jurisdictions that they are given. Now Labrador~by virtue of its contribution to this Province and hy virtue of the economic value of Labrador to this Province, has to be r,fvcn a lot more recognition.

Now I would be the happiest man in the world if I could see a hustling, bustling vital Department of Labrador Affairs. but unfortunately the people who have recourse to,go into the Department of Labrador Affairs,they come out very, very unimpressed with what they witness and wh<~t they see and the type of assistance which the Department has rendered to Labrador since its inception. Now, Mr. Chairman, Goose Bay has some of the best airport facilitics on the Eastern Seaboard and I cannot see why Goose Bay cannot be established as a distribution centre for the whole of the Eastern Seaboard.

Since I have been sitting in this House I have heard many, many statements made about the value of the great,former International Airport of Gander to the Province and I say that essentially we have better facilities in Goose Bay and they are not being utilized. Now granted there are agreements that have been conducted between the Canadian Government, the Province and the American Governments and their Departments of Defence but the plain simple fact of the matter is, Mr.

Chairman, I think it is obvious to all concerned in Goose Bay that this is or not as strategic a location/of the value that it was twenty years ago in the defence of this Continent or in defence of democracy, the world over. It is no longer of that great value and I am sure that it would be very easy to modify and change the existing agr.eements that exist between the American Air Force in order to bring more commercial aircraft than they would have desired ten or fifteen years.

But I am sure that it would be very easy to modify any agreement that has been established .between the American Air Force and the Canadian Government or the Province. I do not see why this should be any obstacle in the promotion of Goose Bay as a distribution centre for the F.astern Seaboard or for overseas goods cominp, into Canada,which would eliminat<> the necessity of transporting 70!)9 these ~oods all the way to Central Canada and then transporting them back to "1

June. 12th, 1970 Tape 1231 .JM - 6 the Eastern Provinces. I think if this theory was develope<! or cxplor<'d thnt it could add greatly or help greatly the economic benefit of the citiz ens, the average citizen of Newfoundland and the Maritime Provinces. Mr. Chairman, do you care to call it 1:00 P.!i. MR. WINDSOR: He has a dozen speeches to repeat, you know. MR. BURGESS: ---·--- Mr. Chairman, I have had to sit an<l listen to an <~wful lot in this House. l do not speak that often so it is about time. l-iR. BURGESS: It is relevant .

I think the hon. gentleman will have t o go and live there to find out the relevancy of it. MR. CHAIRMAN: It being 1:00 P.H. I nOI4 lea ve the Chair unt:il 3:30 P . ~1.

PROVINCE OF NEWFOUNDLAND AND LABRADOR HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY Volume 1 Number 111 4th. Session 34th. General Assembly VERBATIM REPORT FRIDAY, JUNE 12,1970 SPEAKER: THE HONOURABLE GEORGE W. CLARKE

MW · June 12th., 1970 Tape no 1232 Page 1 The House resumed at 3 p.m. HON. J. R. SMALLWOOD (Premier): Mr. Chairman, before the business of the committee is resumed, I am sure that every hon. membe~ would be glad if I were to invite the attention of the committee to the fact that something entirely unprecedented has happened here today and by unprecedented I mean something that has never happened before in the more than a 100 years history of this House and that is that we have been joined in one part, at any rate, by a lady. Now we had a lady who sat in this House as an elected member, Lady Squire~.

The wife of the Prime Minister of that day ran for the district of Lewisporte and was elected in a by-election and too~ her seat in the House, It was the only case, I suppose, in history '"here the Prime Minister and his wife both occupied ele .cted seats in the Chamber. She was the one and only lady who ever did occupy a seat as an elected member but today the second lady in more than a 100 years of our history takes her place in the Chamber - not as an elected member but as one of the appointive part of the Chamber, Mrs.

Edward Noonan, LL.B., who is our Acting Law Clerk, and I am sure that, except that she is sitting on the wrong side of the House, there is no reason why the Opposition should get any special favours in this Chamber. If there are any special favours on the go, they should come to the majority side of the House. HON. L. R. CURTIS: (President of ·the Council): She is on our side. MR. SMALLWOOD: The President of the Council, it is easy to see that he is getting old. It is easy to see it. He said, "she is on our side." Yes, but she - oh! come on. Do I have to explain.

He does not even understand what I am talking about. He is too old, He is satisfied just to know that she is on our side. He does not want to see her just to know that she is here. Anjway, Mr. Chairman, 'I am sure that I speak for all hon. members on all sides of the House, when I say that no one in the Chamber today is more 7101

June 12th., 1970 Tape no 1232 Page 2 Mr. Smallwood, welcome than this lady, the Acting Law Clerk, Mrs. Edward Noonan. MR. CHAIRMAN: Shall 1901-01 carry? Carried. HR. T. BURGESS: Mr. Chairman, I must say that it is a real welcomed opportunity, when I look in that direction across the House that I do not see a bunch of sour old mugs, at least, there is some gain to sitting on this side of the House at last. It is with a great degree of sincerity that I welcome this welcome addition to the House. Mr.

Chairman, I know that I sorely bored everybody this morning, but there is only one further thing I would like to say on this vote, Mr. Chairman and since I do not think I would _be offending the han. minister too much, since he holds a dual portfolio, I would like to move that this vote be reduced from $16,700 to $1.00. MR. CHAIRMAN: 1901 - 01, 1901 - 02 - 01, 1901 - 02 - 03 carried. Shall 1902-01 , 02-01, 02-02, 02-03, 03 carry? Carried. Shall 04 carry? MR. G. MYRDEN: Mr. Chairman, would the minister mind explaining this air passenger subsidy. It is reduced almost to half.

I understand that quite a few people in Labrador are confused .about i~. Would the minister mind explaining this air passenger subsidy? HON. E. WINSOR (Minister of Labrador Affairs): Mr. Chairman, I gave the answer to the question which was asked by the hon. member for Labrador West. I think I clarified the position at that time.

Now, if you want me to read it again, I will, In connection with the new air subsidy policy of the Government. announced on Monday, May 11, whereby the subsidy is available only to residents of Labrador or those permanently employed in Labrador - are those persons employed in the present construction work at Churchill Falls and the hundreds of seasonal construction workers - that is the question. I am sorry. The answer was: "The Labrador Air Subsidy Program of 1970 which 7102

June 12th., 1970 Tape no 1232 Page 3 Mr. Winsor. became effective May 14, will have little or n~ pffect on the construction workers in Labrador as all major construction contractors have been paying the transportation cost to workers brought in from the Island provided they stay on the job for th~ee months. The contractor will also pay their way back to the Island, if they remain for six months or are laid off because of lack of work.

The criteria used to determine if a person in Labrador is entitled to or eligible for air subsidy is continuing andindefnite employment and residence in Labrador for a period of at least six months. Actually a person who has resided in Labrador for six months is eligible for the subisdy. It is not applicable to industry or military. MR. BURGESS: Mr. Chairman, I would just like to point out in a statement in the Evening Telegram. the weekend Telegram of today.

It states that I criticized EPA on the basis of this subsidy in what I said yesterday about somebody receiving a reduced family plan fa~ was not eligible for the Government subsidy and the newspaper quoted me as say~ng, EPA was responsible but I was not referring to Eastern Provincial Airways. I was referring to the Government's subsidy. _MR. CHAIRMAN: Shall 04, 09-01, 09-02. 09-03, 09-04,09-06 carry? Carried, Shall Block Provision Canada Pension Plan carry? Carried. Shall Block Provision: Salary Increases and New Posts carry? Carried Shall I report Heading XIX - Labrador Affairs without amendment? MR.

SMALLWOOD: Is there an amendment. HON. E. JONES (Minister of Finance): Mr. Chairman. the Block Provision: Salary Increases and New Posts, I move that the total be changed from $4 1 700 to $9 1 700. _MR, CHAIR}fAN: The motion is that Block Provision: Salary Increases and New Posts be amended to read 1 $9.700 and that the total be amended accordingly. Carried. Shall I report Heading XIX - Labrador Affairs with some amendments? 7103

June 12th., 1970 Mr. Chairman. Carried. Tape no 1232 Page 4 Head XV - Economic Development. Shall 1501-01 carry? MR. SMALLWOOD: Mr. Chairman, I want to say,in asking the committee to adopt these estimates, that I would not want the committee or the House to suppose for one moment that we regard the Department of Economic Development as being the only department of the·Government concerned with ~conomic development.

In a specialized sense, of course, the Department of Economic Development is responsible in a special way for economic development but it must be perfectly obvious that economic development comes under a number of departments, i.e., the Department of Fisheries clearly is concerned with one very important aspect of the economic development of our Province and of our people. Then who would fail to see that the great new department of Community and Socti Development is very deeply concerned with the economic development of this Province.

Then again the Department of Municipal Affairs and Housing is deeply emersed in the economic development of this Province. The Department of Mines, Agriculture and Resources is concerned with virtually nothing else but economic development, at any rate, in certain aspects of economic development. .Then there are certain great service departments.

The Department of Highways - can y~u imagine economic development taking place in any part of the world without highways] Can you imagine economic development taking place in any part of the world without a Department of Public Health - the building of hospitals, the getting of doctors and nurses, the opening of clinics and ambulances and all the rest that would bring about strengthening of the public health of the area~ Finally. can you imagine economic development in this modern age without education~ The Department of Education,riot only in its ordinary or academic •ide. but in the provision of technical training , in the 7104

June 12th., 1970 Tape no 1232 Page 5 Mr. Smallwood. opening of trade schools,of a technical co11ege, of a college of Fisheries, Navigation, Engineering and Electronics and in the opening and operation of the University. In All these fields, education must play an enormously important

part in the economic development of the Province. Perhaps, economic development in the end will boil down to something in the nature of a promotional department of the Government. The

section or department of the Government that goes out · endeavoring to get new industries, to entice capitalists, enterprisers,to the Province to create new industries and create new jobs. Then again, of course, within the whole fabric of the Government of the whole apparaturof the public service, there will be from time to time various activities for which some minister has got to be responsible to this House, i.e. the Power Commission, i.e. Transportation.

We have ·a division of Transportation, a terribly important aspect of our economic life and this has to be responsible to some department and so you have a number of things. RUral electrification and all these are put under the the Department of Economic Development and spectacularly, of course, the Division of Tourist Development forms part of this department of which I have been the minister ( one brief interlude, one short break)ever since the coming of Confederation. I do not know if I will add very much more to this introductory remark about the Department of E~onomic Development.

I propose, when we come to the particular headings of the department,to make some other introductory remarks. The headings are: Minister~& Office,

(2) General Administration. The committee might want to ask some questions on these. Then we come to the big one, ' Tourist Development, and I will want to make an introductory statement on that. Then we come to Economic Development, a heading called Economic Development - 1512. Then we come to 1513 which 7105

June 12th., 1970 Tape no 1232 Page 6 Mr. Smallwood. is Rural Electricity Authority. Then we come to 1514 which is Transportation. The committee, without doubt, will want to ask me about that, Then we come to the College of Fisheries which for some reason is still attached to my Department of Economic Development, although really the college might very well be answerable to the Minister of Education and come under his administration.

I think, perhaps, the reason that it is under my administration in the Department of Ec.:.nomic Development is that I personally - not so .. r.JUch as minister of Economic Development or perhaps not even as Premier but as an individual - took a very ardent interest in the idea of getting this college founded and took tremendous personal interest in it,so that I had it attached to my own office of Economic Development. Then 1517 is Sundry. Then 15-18 is Investments and then comes 1519,Water Resources and Pollution Control. I am sure we will want to say something about that.

Then finally ~ayments,l520- Payments Under The Industrial Incentives Act, and I want to say quite a bit about that. So in some of these headings I will want to introduce the matter with a brief explanatory note - a brief explanatory description and,in between, I am happy to answ~whatever questions may be asked. So the first item is Minist~r's Office. I might say that I do not draw a salary as Minister of Economic Development. I have never done .so. I draw my salary as Premier and as Minister of Economic Development, I do not. MR. BURGESS: Mr.

Chairman, are there any plans, when the bon. the Premier said that for instance every aspect of Government comes · within the sphere of this Economic Development Department, are there ••• MR. SMALLWOOD: No, I didnot say that. ~m. BURGESS: For instance you said •• MR. SMALLWOOD: Economic aevelopment, not the Department of Economic Development but economic development - with · a small "e" and a small "d" will be found virtually in most of the departments of Government not only 710G

June 12th •• 1970 Tape no 1232 Page 7 Mr. Smallwood. in this·one department. MR. BURGESS: Would the hon. minister- could ' he inform the committee if there are any. in relation to the establishment of small industries on the coast of Labrador, plans or designs on the part of the Department of Economic Development to establish somewhat in the line of the small frozen fish plants that I was talking about this morning. MR. SMALLWOOD: No. Mr. Chairman. either along that coast or any other coast. The Department of Economic Development does not establish industries.

What we do is endeavor to entice other people to establish industries and we offer industrial incentives - we offer encouragement and even financial help and we offer to guarantee bond issues. and we offer to find help and to find ways to raise the capital. We make feasibility studiefor them. We make cost-benefit studies for them. We will put our economic staff to work on that and in every way we help, but we do not create industries. We do not, ourselves, start industries going, either along the coast of Labrador or anywhere else.

What we have done in the case of Labrador is go out and try to promote a great industry, i.e. BRINCO. I did . that. As Minister of Economic Development. I went to England. I saw Sir. Winston Churchill. I saw the Rothschilds. I asked the FBI - the Federated British Industries, · the great organization of the manufacturers of the United Kingdom,to call a special meeting. And they did,at which I outlined the great attractions of Labrador. All of this resulted, eventually,in the formation of BRINCO. I worked as Minister of Economic Development on mineral development, but we did not start Churchill Falls.

We only got others to do it. We did not start any iron mines, we only encouraged others to do it by giving concessions and so on~ Well similarily with fish plants, we have started a couple of fish plants, or three on this Island. When the Fisheries Development - Royal Commission headed by Sir Albert Walsh, 7107

June 12th •• 1232 Page 8 Mr. Smallwood. early in Confederation was formed by us. After a year of work. they recommended that the Government of Newfoundland start a fish plant at La Scie. We did so. They recommended that we start a small one on Merasheen Island. and we did so. They recommended that we start one at Quirpon near the Strait of Belle Isle and we did that. But these are the only fish plants that we started.· as a Government. No. I am wrong. We started two others. The Royal Commission on the Southwest Coast,headed by the late John. T.

Cheeseman,of which our present Minister of Finance w~s a member, recommended that we start two fish plants. One at Harbour Breton. I think and the otl1er one up the coast, farther up the coast , and we did that and sold these plants. They were big plants and they ran into multi-millions. and we sold them and got large companies to come in. Now these are the only plants of all that the Government itself did, and we did it only because two separate Royal Commissions recommended it. The answer to the hon. gentleman's question is no. We have no intentions ourselves, as a Governmen~ to start plants.

But if anybody, I mean a