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September 17, 2018

42nd Parliament, 1st Session

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Hansard Transcripts

vol. A

Hansard Transcripts

vol. B

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcript 2018-Sept-17 vol. A (PDF)

L023A - Mon 17 Sep 2018 / Lun 17 sep 2018

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L’ONTARIO

Monday 17 September 2018 Lundi 17 septembre 2018

Consideration of Bill 31

Orders of the Day

Efficient Local Government Act, 2018 / Loi de 2018 pour des administrations locales efficaces

The House met at 0001.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Let us pause for a moment of silence for inner thought and personal reflection.

Prayers.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): This being the first Monday of the month that we’ve been sitting, I would like to ask everyone to join with me in singing our national anthem.

Singing of O Canada.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): I also wish to acknowledge this territory as the traditional gathering place for many Indigenous nations, most recently the Mississaugas of the New Credit.

Members can take their seats.

Consideration of Bill 31

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): On September 15, the member for Timmins rose on two points of order to challenge the orderliness of Bill 31,

An Act to amend the City of Toronto Act, 2006, the Municipal Act, 2001, the Municipal Elections Act, 1996 and the Education Act and to revoke two regulations.

The member contends, first, that the fact of active litigation in the matter of the constitutionality of

An Act to amend the City of Toronto Act, 2006, the Municipal Act, 2001 and the Municipal Elections Act, 1996, Bill 5, invokes the sub judice convention and standing order 23(g), and should prevent the bill from being considered by the Legislature.

Secondly, the member contends that Bill 31 is so similar to Bill 5, which was passed by the House in the current session on August 14, 2018, that Bill 31 contravenes standing order 52 and should therefore not be permitted to proceed.

Having heard the member’s submissions, those of the government House leader, and after consulting our precedents and procedural authorities, I am now prepared to rule on these matters. I will deal with the issues in the order in which they were raised.

The sub judice convention is codified in this assembly’s standing orders as follows:

“23. In debate, a member shall be called to order by the Speaker if he or she....

“(

g) Refers to any matter that is the subject of a proceeding,

“(

i) that is pending in a court or before a judge for judicial determination; or

“(ii) that is before any quasi-judicial body constituted by the House or by or under the authority of

an act of the Legislature,

“where it is shown to the satisfaction of the Speaker that further reference would create a real and substantial danger of prejudice to the proceeding.”

The sub judice convention, and the rule as it is codified in our standing orders, apply to debate only; that is, they can operate to restrict the scope of permitted debate on legislation, but do not operate to limit the superior and pre-eminent right of the Legislature to legislate in the first instance.

This principle is well explained in the House of Commons Procedure and Practice at page 633 of the third edition:

“The convention does not apply to legislation or to the legislative process as the right of Parliament to legislate may not be limited. If the sub judice convention were to apply to bills, the whole legislative process could be stopped simply by the initiation of legal proceedings in any court in Canada.”

On the point of the applicability of the rule to a bill, a ruling made on June 4, 2002, by Speaker Carr cited a previous ruling made on January 29, 1937, by Speaker Hipel, as follows:

“Instances of the passing of bills affecting particular actions or other proceedings before the courts are not uncommon in the history of this Legislature....

“In my opinion, it is clear that ... Erskine May ... goes no further than to state that during the course of a debate, members should not refer to matters awaiting the adjudication of a court of law, such matters being sub judice. It is not intended to interfere with the right of legislative bodies to alter existing laws, even though such alteration may affect a matter before the courts.

“I hold that it would be a stultification of the powers of this assembly to rule that

an act may not be introduced to remedy a condition in

an act and to make clear the will of the assembly even though the act to be remedied is under consideration by a court of law.

“Accordingly, it is my ruling that

an act may be introduced and considered by the assembly, notwithstanding that such act may interfere with actions pending before the courts.”

Accordingly, I do not find that the sub judice convention and standing order 23(

g) apply to prevent Bill 31 from coming before the House to be considered.

Turning now to the second issue raised by the member for Timmins, I will cite the applicable standing order in question, which states:

“52. No motion, or amendment, the subject-matter of which has been decided upon, can be again proposed during the same session.”

This standing order captures an ancient parliamentary principle, which is known as the “same question rule.” House of Commons Procedure and Practice explains this rule as follows at page 590 of the third edition:

“A decision once made cannot be questioned again but must stand as the judgment of the House. Thus, for example, if a bill or motion is rejected, it cannot be revived in the same session, although there is no bar to a motion similar in intent to one already negatived but with sufficient variance to constitute a new question. This is to prevent the time of the House being used in the discussion of motions of the same nature with the possibility of contradictory decisions being arrived at in the course of the same session.”

There is no denying that the act passed by the House on August 14, and Bill 31, are similar to each other. I have reviewed both, and I note that parts of the earlier legislation are replicated verbatim in Bill 31. However, Bill 31 also introduces a number of new provisions that were not present in Bill 5, including

schedule 4.

But the most significant differences are that the provisions of Bill 31 apply despite the Ontario Human Rights Code, and the invocation of subsection 33(1) of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms—the “notwithstanding” clause—in all four of Bill 31’s schedules.

The member for Timmins contends that the two pieces of legislation are virtually identical because the ultimate product and result of both are the same. I therefore must decide whether the Legislature is being asked to decide the same question it has already decided when it passed Bill 5.

In my view it is not, because Bill 31 further presents a significantly higher-level—indeed, philosophical—inquiry for the assembly to answer.

Since the first reading of Bill 31, I think it would be hard for anyone to credibly sustain the argument that the debate has not substantially changed from the appropriate size of the city of Toronto council, and is now focused on the legitimacy and advisability of the government’s willingness to invoke the Constitution’s “notwithstanding” clause in response to the court’s ruling.

In Bill 31, the executive council has, in my opinion, put before this assembly of 124 MPPs these questions:

“Shall the decision made by this Legislature, in passing Bill 5, be vindicated and stand?”; and

“Shall that decision prevail over any challenge against which this Legislature, within its sphere of jurisdiction, intends Bill 31 to protect itself?”

These were not matters for debate or decision when Bill 5 was before the House several weeks ago; clearly, they are now. For this reason, I am satisfied that Bill 31 is sufficiently different from Bill 5 to comply with the requirements of standing order 52, and I find that Bill 31 is in order.

I wish to thank the member for Timmins and the government House leader for their submissions on this important matter.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Order. The House will come to order.

M me Nathalie Des Rosiers: Point of order.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Point of order, the member for Ottawa–Vanier.

M me Nathalie Des Rosiers: I believe we have unanimous consent for the members of the Liberal caucus to split their time during their 20 minutes.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Is there unanimous consent of the House? I heard a no.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: Point of order.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Point of order, the member for Timmins.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: I wish that you would allow me to introduce Rocco Achampong, who is here: one of the candidates for city council responsible for the legal challenge of Bill 5, along with one of his human rights—

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): We’re not doing introduction of visitors this morning until 10:30 a.m.

Orders of the Day

Efficient Local Government Act, 2018 / Loi de 2018 pour des administrations locales efficaces

Mr. Clark moved second reading of the following bill:

Bill 31,

An Act to amend the City of Toronto Act, 2006, the Municipal Act, 2001, the Municipal Elections Act, 1996 and the Education Act and to revoke two regulations / Projet de loi 31, Loi modifiant la Loi de 2006 sur la cité de Toronto, la Loi de 2001 sur les municipalités, la Loi de 1996 sur les élections municipales et la

Loi sur l’éducation et abrogeant deux règlements.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): I look to the minister to lead off the debate.

Hon. Steve Clark: I would like to announce that I’m sharing my time with—

Mr. Gilles Bisson: Point of order.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Point of order, the member for Timmins.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: I would also like to introduce Cheri DiNovo, the former—

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Thank you. We welcome you to the Legislature.

Again, I recognize the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing.

Hon. Steve Clark: Thank you, Speaker. I want to announce that I’m going to be sharing my time with the Attorney General.

On Wednesday, September 12, 2018—

Interruption.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Once again I have to advise the visitors who are here today that they cannot participate in the debate. That includes former members.

Interruption.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): If you don’t stop, Ms. DiNovo, we’re going to have to ask that you leave.

Again I recognize the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing.

Hon. Steve Clark: Thank you, Speaker.

On Wednesday, September 12, 2018, I had the honour of rising in the House to introduce the proposed Efficient Local Government Act, 2018. The intent of this bill is to ensure the objectives of the Better Local Government Act, 2018, are achieved in time for this year’s municipal election.

As you will recall, Speaker, the Legislature passed the Better Local Government Act, 2018, on August 14. Nearly one month ago I stood right here to speak to the importance of effective and efficient government, and the importance that there is voter parity in the 2018 election.

Our goal was clear then, and we remain committed to that same goal today: to have Toronto, which is Ontario’s largest municipality and a major economic engine for both the province and the country, move away from a dysfunctional council system, a broken system that has difficulty with decision-making, a broken system that gets very little done. Instead, the goal is an efficient council that deals with the big issues that need to be addressed, such as transit, infrastructure and housing.

Take an example, Speaker, in 2017: After days of debate at the committee level, city council took 15 hours to pass its budget—15 hours of going back and forth and back and forth on a document that was already nearly set in stone, 15 hours to express opinions that had been expressed numerous times before on the record. And after all that, council passed a budget that created a $2-million budget hole that meant it had to hastily draw from a reserve fund. Speaker, that’s not an efficient way to run a government.

In addition, I indicated that the 25-ward structure for city council would result in a fairer vote for residents in 2018. The 47-ward structure adopted by the city would not provide voter parity until 2026, and would not do it for three elections. Speaker, that’s eight years to get voter parity—three elections. Toronto residents deserve a fair vote with voter parity in 2018. They should not have to wait eight years.

Toronto residents also deserve and need an efficient and effective council in 2018—they shouldn’t have to wait—a council that needs to make prompt decisions about the big issues that really matter not just to Toronto but also to our province.

One month ago, we had proposed an answer to the unacceptable public policy stalemates at Toronto city hall and an answer to the need for voter parity and effective representation in 2018, but because of the ruling by the Superior Court of Justice just days ago, we’ve made a decision to replace the Better Local Government Act and introduce this new legislation. This legislation would, if passed, replace recent changes to the Municipal Act, 2001, the City of Toronto Act, 2006, and the Municipal Elections Act, 1996: changes that were made through the Better Local Government Act.

This new legislation would reintroduce these changes to these acts and the Education Act, with some modifications—and again, Speaker, I want to thank you for your ruling.

Provisions in the act declare that the amendments in the act operate notwithstanding sections 2 and 7 to 15 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

Let me be clear: We value the judicial system, Mr. Speaker, but we’re disappointed with the Superior Court’s decision. Our position, this government’s position, is that the Better Local Government Act is a valid exercise of the province’s jurisdiction over municipal institutions.

In recent days, there has been much debate and many views expressed, including many former politicians. Christy Clark, the former Premier of British Columbia, has expressed support for our legislation. She said that it’s the right thing to do because she knows that people all across Canada, not just in Toronto, are wondering why governments can’t move things faster.

Former Premier of Saskatchewan Brad Wall also commented on this bill. He understands why we need to act and to be able to use the legal tools that are available to us.

Former Premier of Quebec Jean Charest has also added his voice. I found it very interesting that he made comments very much the same as former Premiers Clark and Wall. He pointed out that the political gridlock and dysfunction at Toronto city hall is known far and wide, even to Canadians like him who are far, far away from downtown Toronto. Here’s what he said: “For years, though, we’ve all heard how difficult it’s been to manage the city of Toronto.” Speaker, this is a great city. It has great residents, incredible residents.

But do we really want to continue to have a reputation for our local government that it gets in the way of its own self, that it can’t make those effective and efficient decisions? Of course not, and that’s the reason why we’re here tonight to move this legislation forward.

There are many voices who have come out to support the steps we’re taking, but I felt it’s important to take some time to highlight those really insightful and thoughtful comments from three incredibly respected former Premiers. They sat in the highest political offices of their respective provinces, and they’ve had to make some tough decisions.

The point is, we’re not going to step away from legislative changes that our government believes are critical to the taxpayers of Toronto. The voters of this city and people across this entire province need these changes to be put forward.

Speaker, we were elected to govern, and that’s exactly what we’re doing.

Restoring order to Toronto city council by reducing the number of councillors is part of our plan to make government more effective and more efficient; so is improving parity in the city of Toronto. We also want to reduce the wasteful spending of tax dollars. People expect their local governments to run efficiently, and this government believes that the hard-working people of Ontario have every right to expect that. This is why we’re committed to finding efficiencies and listening to the people of Ontario.

With the date of the municipal election rapidly approaching, we need to take action—October 22 is just a few weeks away—to provide greater certainty for everyone and to ensure that the election proceeds.

Before I get into the details of the legislation, Speaker, I want to give you a little bit of background about myself, because I think some people need to know that. I want to take people back to 1982. I had just graduated from the University of Waterloo, and I made the decision that I wanted to run for political office. While I was perceived as a youngster, I had developed a very deep passion for local issues and municipal politics, and I wanted to put my name forward to serve. I thought it was very important to get involved in the political process and try to benefit that local community that I called home.

That same belief that I had back in 1982 as somebody who ran for office at 21 and was elected the day after my 22nd birthday is the same passion that I bring to the job today as a member of provincial Parliament.

Now, as Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing, I have the tremendous opportunity to be able to invoke change in the system, and we on this side of the House believe that an efficient and effective council is vital to municipal politics and municipal government in our province. The Better Local Government Act was the first step, Speaker. I consider it to be a very important piece of legislation, but, as I said earlier, because of recent events, we’ve had to take action to introduce new legislation. But our commitment to resolving those issues at hand is unwavering.

Our government is committed to reducing the size and cost of government and making municipal government efficient and effective.

I learned early in my political career that anyone who runs for public office must remember who the boss is, and that boss is the people you represent. You work for the people of Ontario; you work for the people. That’s exactly what we’re doing as a government: We’re respecting the people we represent, and we’re respecting their hard-earned tax dollars. We’re respecting the taxpayer.

Speaker, if passed, this legislation will reduce the size of Toronto council to 25 from 47 councillors, plus the mayor. It gives taxpayers in the city a streamlined, more effective council that’s ready to work quickly on those very, very important issues that Torontonians want them to work on after the October 22 election. The people of Toronto want to see transit and housing built now. They don’t want to wait four more years; they certainly don’t want to wait until 2026. Infrastructure in Toronto cannot continue to crumble; it urgently needs attention.

We as a government want to work with the city of Toronto and we want to work with the council, but we need that streamlined council of 25 that’s ready to work.

The action that we’re taking is long overdue. Local governments deliver many critical services to residents, and it’s in everyone’s interest that they work quickly and efficiently and respect the taxpayers’ hard-earned dollars.

Many of us sitting in this chamber got our first political experience as municipal councillors. That was a very valuable opportunity. Our Premier served the citizens of Toronto on council for four years. I served as a mayor for nine years. Both of us, through our years of experience on municipal council, know how important the services are that communities across our province in Ontario’s 444 municipalities provide, those critical services for everyday Ontarians.

The more efficiently municipalities are managed, the better it is for residents. Towards that goal, our legislation will reduce the size of Toronto’s city council by aligning the city’s municipal ward boundaries with the provincial and federal electoral districts. Twenty-five areas are very familiar to voters. Twenty-five areas have been proven to provide fair and equitable representation for the other two levels of government.

The current size of Toronto city council hinders decision-making. Debates are time-consuming. They’re inefficient. They’re costly. Forty-four independent councillors, each with their own agenda and outlook, mean deadlock and dysfunction for the city’s decision-making on so many issues that are facing the citizens of Toronto. Allowing Toronto city council to grow to 47 councillors would make the situation even worse.

I can point to one debate in particular as an example. It has come up time and time again at Toronto city hall: what to do about the aging Gardiner Expressway, an expressway that turned 60 years old earlier this year. A good portion of the past decade has been spent debating how to save this crumbling piece of infrastructure. It’s a topic that has caused as much gridlock at Toronto city hall as it does at rush hour on the Gardiner itself. The debates have gone on and on and on, made worse by the number of councillors standing up to speak their mind.

Forty-four independent councillors, Speaker—I said that earlier—each with their own agenda, still stall decision-making on so many issues that are important to the taxpayers of Toronto.

The residents and businesses of Toronto deserve better than that. As the economic engine of our great province, decisions at Toronto city hall are important to all Ontarians, because those cars, those buses, those trucks lined up along the Gardiner are not just carrying passengers from Toronto; they’re carrying commuters to their businesses; they’re carrying goods and services from those businesses; they’re carrying tourists who are coming and visiting this great city; and investors who are trying to create good jobs.

The people of Ontario and the citizens of this city need to have a council that’s run efficiently and effectively to move on past those endless debates that go on and on and on at council. So our government is acting quickly to deliver on the promises to improve efficiency and effectiveness at city hall.

Some have speculated that reducing the size of Toronto city council will negatively affect the representation of residents at city hall. Speaker, I want you to know that we considered this very, very carefully. Under our proposed legislation, the average ward size would be 109,263 people. That’s based on the latest census figures. We believe that’s a very reasonable number. The 25 boundaries align with the federal and provincial electoral districts in Toronto. These boundaries are vetted through a federal commission that has been found to provide very effective representation.

As part of the review of effective representation, the federal process considers population equality, communities of interest—

Interruption.

Hon. Steve Clark: Is everything okay?

Interjection: He did it on purpose.

Hon. Steve Clark: —historical patterns and geographic size. It would be open to the Legislature to adjust the 25 ward boundaries to continue to track that fair and independent federal process for ensuring effective representation, with no additional cost to taxpayers.

The pre-existing 44 wards had wide variances in population in 2016. The ward sizes ranged from populations of more than 45,000 to more than 97,000 in 2016. The 47 wards created by the city are not much better for 2018. For example, under the 47 wards, according to the Toronto Ward Boundary Review, ward populations range from more than 38,000 to nearly double that, at 69,000. That does not provide voter parity for this election. Parity of voting power is the most important aspect of effective representation. That’s why it’s so important that there is voter parity power in the 2018 election, not waiting until 2026.

We believe smaller councils work better, Speaker. Aside from the time that will be saved during the decision-making process, there are also going to be cost savings for the city as well. We estimate that this reduction in the size of Toronto city council could save the city at least $15 million over four years. That’s $15 million, taken out of administration, that could be put towards directly helping the residents and businesses of Toronto.

Anyone who lives or works in Toronto could see in the last few weeks that the municipal election campaign was proceeding using the 25-ward system that was enacted by the Legislature. We made sure that candidates for Toronto council had time to decide which of the new wards they wished to run in. We extended the nomination deadline. Our government worked hard to ensure that the candidates for municipal council or school board trustee were able to continue their campaigns and ensure that the contributions they collected were treated fairly.

We also worked with the city clerk.

We worked with Elections Ontario. They provided assistance. Implementation issues, Speaker, were addressed. It was straightforward and it was simple for candidates to determine which, if any, of the new wards they wanted to run in.

Now, because of the recent court decision, we have to factor in the timing of the October municipal election. As I said at the start of my address tonight, it’s fast approaching; October 22 is coming very quickly.

We understand that candidates, both seasoned political veterans and those new to the political arena, are watching the outcome of this morning’s debate very closely.

This legislation, if passed, will extend the nomination deadline again for city council and school board trustee candidates. The new date will be two days after this proposed legislation receives royal assent. We believe that the steps we are taking are fair to candidates running for both Toronto city council and for school boards, and this will allow both incumbents and candidates new to the municipal arena to consider which ward they feel will best represent their interests.

As I have touched upon, our proposed reforms would also allow for the redistribution of Toronto-area school board trustee seats. I want to emphasize that the number of trustees would remain the same. As this currently is governed by regulation under the Education Act, I have been working with my colleague the Honourable Lisa Thompson, the Minister of Education. Her ministry will continue to work with the four district school boards that would be affected by this legislation.

These boards are the Toronto District School Board, the Toronto Catholic District School Board, the Conseil scholaire Viamonde, and the Conseil scolaire de district catholique Centre-Sud. All of those working on this have made sure that the redistribution of school board trustee electoral districts aligns with those 25 electoral districts that I talked about.

Speaker, as the Premier has said and as I have said, we disagree with the Superior Court of Justice decision on provisions in the Better Local Government Act, 2018. We believe that the act originally passed by this Legislature was a constitutional exercise of the province’s jurisdiction over municipalities. And we believe it’s for the good of all taxpayers that we have the most efficient, effective and streamlined government possible.

Speaker, it has been encouraging to hear words of support on this government’s position on this matter. The Ontario director of the Canadian Taxpayers Federation has been quoted in the media as saying, “The legislation is fully within the scope of provincial powers to enact,” and the judicial ruling sets a “bad constitutional precedent” that undoes “something that a democratically elected government had been voted in to do.”

Even the federal director of the Canadian Taxpayers Federation has weighed in, saying that our initial bill was “introduced in sufficient time,” and saying he’s disappointed with the decision brought down by the court. He said that this ruling signifies a danger that the Ontario government won’t be able to make changes to municipalities, something that’s under our jurisdiction.

Mr. Speaker, our government has been focused on the most efficient ways to govern. We had the honour of being elected with a majority government here in Ontario. The people gave us a mandate to streamline government and to make it more efficient. The people of Ontario gave us a mandate to pave the way for better transit, more housing, and new and improved infrastructure. We believe that fewer councillors will help improve decision-making to make that happen. We believe that the 25-ward system will provide voter parity in 2018.

Speaker, here’s another supporter. A policy director under former Prime Minister Stephen Harper went on CBC last week to say that she supports our government using

section 33 to uphold the items included in the Better Local Government Act. She said, “I’m glad that a Premier in Ontario has finally said, ‘I am going to use this clause in the charter.’” She said that the clause “is expressly designed for this purpose, to uphold legislation that’s supported by the democratically elected Premier of the province.” Speaker, we’re just using the tools in our toolbox to effectively govern.

I’d also like to note that this isn’t the first time that the number of Toronto council seats has been reduced. During amalgamation in 1998, the number of councillors went from 56 to 44. The city continued to function. If you have effective councillors sitting in council chambers, people and businesses will be represented. The city will still work to get things done for taxpayers.

Speaker, we’ve had many sitting city councillors speak in support of the government when we first outlined our plans in the Better Local Government Act. We had a number of city councillors show up here in the Legislature, in the media studio, and they expressed their support: Councillor Vincent Crisanti; Councillor Michael Ford; Councillor Stephen Holyday; Councillor Justin Di Ciano; Councillor Giorgio Mammoliti—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Order. The opposition benches will come to order.

Hon. Steve Clark: —Councillor and Speaker Frances Nunziata; Councillor Cesar Palacio; Councillor David Shiner; Councillor Michael Thompson; and Councillor and Deputy Mayor, East, Glenn De Baeremaeker.

Interjections.

Hon. Steve Clark: I guess the official opposition doesn’t want to hear about all of our support for this bill on city council.

This group of veteran councillors, and those who are a little new to municipal politics, spoke in support—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Order. The House has to come to order.

Sorry to interrupt the minister.

Hon. Steve Clark: They had three main reasons why they said a smaller council is needed.

First, they agree that a smaller council will lead to better decision-making at Toronto city hall, which would benefit Torontonians as a whole. They gave the example of the current 44-member council having 10-hour debates on issues that would end with the vast majority of councillors voting the same way as they did at the beginning of the debate. Speaker, time is wasted. They have said that the Speaker often has to ask for quiet because people aren’t paying attention and they’re talking while decisions are being made.

Second, they point out that it will save money, and those savings go beyond just councillors’ salaries. The current 44-member council has created a huge challenge for Toronto’s bureaucracy, which has to respond to motion after motion, report after report, deferral after deferral. Let’s use a recent city council meeting, where there were 128 members’ motions presented. If we allowed council to grow to 47 members and hadn’t acted quickly, I suggest, Speaker, that that situation would have become even worse.

Toronto city staff have to work on all of those reports instead of working on the issues that are important to the people of Toronto, important issues like transit, infrastructure and housing.

Third, it would result in a fair vote for residents, which was the very reason Toronto itself undertook that boundary review in the first place.

It’s not just these councillors who have been speaking about cutting Toronto city council; the size of city council has, quite frankly, been debated for years. In fact, this very issue was raised in the 2010 municipal election. We saw candidates for council and candidates for mayor propose the idea to cut council in half. They pointed to increased efficiency.

Speaker, now I just want to take a few moments and talk about the Efficient Local Government Act, which also proposes reforms to the selection of regional chairs for the regional governments of York, Peel, Niagara and the district of Muskoka. We wanted to get things right that were imposed by the previous government, so I’m going to turn to those reforms.

We believe that regions should have a say in how they are governed. At their core, they must serve the needs of their communities, like all of us who have been called to serve for the people. Our government for the people believes that the regions in Ontario should be the ones that make those important decisions on how they serve residents. Listen, they understand communities. They understand their unique challenges. They are in the best position to provide those solutions. They are accountable to meeting their residents’ needs. That is why, unlike the previous government, we believe that regions should be able to decide how they should elect their regional chairs.

The previous government had a bit of a different view. This led to changes in the Municipal Act two years ago, changes that the previous government—

Mr. Gilles Bisson: Steve, you voted for regional elections.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Member for Timmins, come to order.

Mrs. Jennifer (Jennie) Stevens: They don’t get to decide in Niagara.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Member for St. Catharines, come to order.

Hon. Steve Clark: —imposed those changes on regional municipalities. Municipalities had already decided at that time to appoint their regional chairs and were no longer allowed to do that. Aside from the case of Oxford county, which was an exception, all seven remaining regional governments had to directly elect their regional chairs.

Mr. Speaker, we believe we should return to the system used in the 2014 election, before the previous government’s legislation was enacted. What we’re proposing is to reverse those changes that were imposed by the previous government. If passed, in the future regions would decide for themselves how those selections of chairs would take place.

We want to give decision-making power back to those regions because they understand better than anyone how this two-tiered municipal system works.

Regional governments work with their member municipalities to ensure the needs of their local communities are met. They are called upon to provide key services for their local residents. They are responsive to the needs of those communities. That’s why our government believes regions are well equipped to decide how their regional chairs should be selected.

Speaker, every region is unique. Do we honestly think that what works for the region of Peel would work for the district of Muskoka? I don’t think so. The same could be said for York region and Niagara region. They’re two different regions. Those local councils should be able to make that decision on how their regional chair is selected. So our government hit the pause button on those elections.

I also want to talk about our government’s regional review, which will take a broad look at the current model which has been in place for 50 years. It’s time to consider whether changes are needed to improve municipal governance in communities where populations have grown significantly and that 50-year-old model of government may no longer be applicable for the future prosperity of those communities.

Our goal as a government is to work together with those municipal governments to ensure that Ontario taxpayers’ dollars are respected and to ensure that local governments are positioned to serve their people and are working as efficiently and effectively as possible—all to support the future economic prosperity of their residents and businesses. We look forward to discussing with the many stakeholders, including our municipal partners, to determine what’s working well.

Speaker, we started the conversation a few weeks ago at the Association of Municipalities of Ontario conference, one where, I might say, our government set a record for the most consultation meetings of any government in history with our municipal partners. When I was there, we met with one delegation after another. For four straight days, we listened intently to municipalities large and small, from every corner of our province. I see that as pivotal. I want to give a shout-out to my two parliamentary assistants, Jim McDonell and Christine Hogarth, who did an exceptional job listening to delegations.

During that speech to almost 2,000 people, I laid out our government’s priorities—priorities that have been ignored for too long, important work that will make a real difference for municipalities and the people they serve, like cutting red tape; like shortening development approval times so we can unlock development and increase housing supply; like eliminating the many reports that municipal staff feel are a waste of time—reports that ask for the same information over and over again from different ministries in our government.

I laid out our feeling of finding efficiencies and showing respect for taxpayers and their hard-earned dollars. That’s the message this government brought to the AMO conference, and that’s at the core of this bill. We’re proposing to return decision-making powers back to the regions and, in future elections, they should be able to select their heads of council in a way that works for them.

From day one, some communities opposed the government’s proposed decision to force municipalities to elect their chairs. I’m going to give you an example, Speaker. The mayor of Mississauga was one of those people against it. And the mayor was far from alone. There were many, many others who agreed. In Peel, the regional council was strongly opposed when the matter was discussed and voted on in 2017. The final results were 22 to 1 against electing a regional chair—22 to 1 against. I think that’s a pretty clear point of view.

That’s why, for the upcoming municipal election on October 22, we’re going to revert back to the way it was in 2014, before the previous government imposed it. It’s quite simple: Regional governments in York, Peel, Niagara and Muskoka will appoint their chairs; Waterloo, Durham and Halton will elect them. It’s not new. It worked fine before. It worked fine in the last election. In the future, it’s going to be their choice.

Speaker, I want to reiterate that this new bill is about upholding the principles behind what was debated and passed on this very floor a month ago: restoring accountability and respect for the people of Ontario. Our proposal for Toronto ward boundaries to match the federal and provincial electoral districts is an example. The electoral districts were established in an unbiased manner. We have used this unbiased information to redraw the ward map for the city of Toronto. We’re operating, as a level of government, completely within our legal jurisdiction, and we are focused on putting everyday people first.

Lowering taxes; reducing the regulatory burden; restoring accountability and trust, and reducing the size and cost of government: We heard very clearly from Ontarians that government is supposed to work for them. They want a government that gets things done, and again, that’s exactly what we’re doing here this morning. We’re showing the people of Ontario that their trust in our government was well placed. When it comes to their local and regional governments, people expect and deserve that same level of accountability and responsibility. Streamlining decision-making will help the people of Toronto get that housing, get that new transit and get those infrastructure improvements.

Interjections.

Hon. Steve Clark: As I’ve said, and I’ve said it over and over again—the NDP can howl all they want. They can stand up for the more politicians they want. They can stand up for the deadlock and dysfunction that has plagued Toronto city council. As I’ve said, better decision-making at Toronto city hall will not just help the residents of Toronto. We need Ontario’s economic engine firing on all cylinders and making sure that we have that efficient and effective council that, on October 22, is willing to have a 25-person streamlined council that we commit, as a government, to working with on those very important issues that benefit everyday Ontarians, everyday Torontonians. That’s what we want.

Now I’m going to turn it over to the Attorney General to take our remaining time.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Thank you very much. You’ve referred it to the Attorney General.

The Attorney General.

Hon. Caroline Mulroney: Mr. Speaker, I’d like to thank the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing for introducing the Efficient Local Government Act, 2018. This important piece of legislation highlights the importance of local government and emphasizes that all levels of government must work effectively and efficiently for the people of this great province.

As the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing mentioned, people deserve an accountable provincial government that respects their hard-earned taxpayer dollars and works for them, and people expect the same from their local government.

The people of Toronto are preparing to cast their vote in the upcoming municipal election, and they need and deserve certainty now. Should this bill pass, it would deliver on Ontario’s commitment to smaller, more effective government and stand up for the interests of voters and taxpayers across Ontario. As my colleague mentioned, decision-making at Toronto city council is far from efficient. I think we can all agree that there are major ongoing issues such as much-needed transit, infrastructure and housing that are just not being built.

Each day that passes is another where Toronto residents are being failed by a council that is dysfunctional. That is unacceptable. People and their families deserve to see prompt action from city council on the issues that matter to them.

Mr. Speaker, our goal is to have Toronto move towards a system that is streamlined and efficient, but this should come as no surprise. Our government has a very clear mandate. We campaigned to restore accountability and trust in government and end the culture of waste and mismanagement.

During the election campaign, we heard very clearly from Ontarians that they want us to respect their hard-earned taxpayer dollars. We heard that they want their government to work for them. We committed to finding efficiencies in local government and to listening to concerns raised by the people of Ontario, and we continue to deliver on that commitment. Restoring order to city council by reducing the number of city councillors is part of that plan.

Monsieur le Président, au cours de la campagne électorale, les Ontariens et Ontariennes nous ont très clairement confié qu’ils voulaient que nous respections l’argent qu’ils gagnent en travaillant très dur. Nous avons compris qu’ils voulaient que leur gouvernement travaille pour eux, alors nous nous sommes engagés à réaliser des économies au niveau de l’administration locale et à écouter les préoccupations exprimées par la population ontarienne, et nous respectons cet engagement. Rétablir l’ordre au conseil municipal en réduisant le nombre de conseillers municipaux fait

partie de ce plan.

Now, if passed, the proposed legislation would mean that Toronto would have 25 city councillors, just like we have 25 elected provincial MPPs and 25 elected federal MPs. A smaller Toronto city council will be ready to work quickly and put the needs of everyday people first.

Si le projet de loi est adopté, Toronto aura 25 conseillers municipaux, exactement comme nous avons 25 députés provinciaux élus et 25 députés fédéraux élus. Monsieur le Président, un conseil municipal réduit pour Toronto sera prêt à—

Interruption.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): I will speak again to the people who are visitors in the gallery. You cannot continue with these outbursts, or you’ll have to leave.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): The Leader of the Opposition will come to order.

I’ll recognize again the Attorney General.

L’hon. Caroline Mulroney: Monsieur le Président, un conseil municipal réduit pour Toronto sera prêt à travailler rapidement et à donner la priorité aux besoins de la population.

With our proposed changes, Toronto city council will be better equipped to get transit moving and infrastructure built now, not sometime in the distant future.

As the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing mentioned, the proposed 25-ward structure would also result in a fairer vote for residents in 2018. In contrast, the existing 47-ward structure in Toronto would not provide voter parity until 2026. Mr. Speaker, that is eight years away. Toronto residents can’t afford to wait for an efficient and effective council.

Now I want to turn my attention to the fact that this bill invokes

section 33 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Members know that on September 10, the Superior Court struck down a key provision of Bill 5 that would decrease the number of councillors at the city of Toronto from 47 to 25. We believe the Superior Court’s decision was made in error. The judge found an infringement of rights where we believe none existed. That is why we are appealing the court decision—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Order.

M me Nathalie Des Rosiers: The matter is in front of a court.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): The member for Ottawa–Vanier, take your seat. Order.

The Attorney General.

Hon. Caroline Mulroney: Mr. Speaker, that is why we are appealing the court decision and why we are applying for a stay of the court decision until that appeal can be heard.

M me Nathalie Des Rosiers: Point of order.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Point of order?

M me Nathalie Des Rosiers: Yes, I have a point of order. My point of order is that this matter is in front of courts. I submit that this is sub judice to discuss this matter.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): I’m listening intently to the Attorney General. I haven’t heard her say anything that’s out of order.

Hon. Caroline Mulroney: It is also why, in Bill 31, we are invoking

section 33 of the charter. That is because time is of the essence, Speaker. With the court having, we believe, made an error, the question of the Toronto election has been thrown into doubt.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Opposition benches will come to order.

Hon. Caroline Mulroney: The city of Toronto needs certainty, and that certainty can be found through the use of this section.

Mr. Speaker, there has been much commentary over the last week about the government’s decision to introduce legislation invoking

section 33. Let us be clear about one thing: This Legislature holds the sole right and responsibility to pass legislation related to municipalities. That is a point that is beyond dispute. That legislative sovereignty goes to the heart of the debate around

section 33.

Précisons un point : la législature—

Interruption.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Stop the clock. Once again, I will ask those of you who are here as guests to observe the rules of the Legislature. If the outbursts continue, I will have no choice but to clear the entire gallery.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Order. The member for Waterloo, come to order.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): The member for Timmins, come to order.

We will have order during this debate. Start the clock.

The Attorney General.

L’hon. Caroline Mulroney: Précisons un point : la législature détient, à elle seule, le droit et la responsabilité d’adopter des lois concernant les municipalités. C’est un point incontestable.

Much of the public discourse over the last week has conflated two issues: first, the constitutionality of using

section 33, and second, the policy advisability of Bill 31. I have already discussed the policy aspects of Bill 31 and why I support them.

So what of

section 33? There is wide consensus, Mr. Speaker, that

section 33, as conceived by those who wrote and approved it, was to be a tool that balanced the role of the courts and the role of the Legislature.

Allan Blakeney, the former NDP Premier of Saskatchewan, at the first ministers’ conference on the Constitution in November 1981, said that

section 33 is “fully consistent with the sort of argument we have put forward that we need to balance the protection of rights with the existence of our institutions which have served us so well for so many centuries.”

Later that same month, Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau said, “It is a way that the Legislatures ... have of ensuring that the last word is held by the elected representatives of the people rather than by the courts.”

In agreeing to put

section 33 into the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, those who did so included—

Interruption.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): You have to leave.

Interruption.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Stop the clock.

You have to leave.

Interruption.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Once again, this is the last warning. If the outbursts continue, I will clear the galleries and you will all have to leave.

Interruption.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Clear the galleries.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: Point of order, Speaker.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): I’m going to recess the House for 10 minutes.

The House recessed from 0107 to 0118.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): The House will come to order.

Before the recess, the Attorney General had the floor. I would once again recognize the Attorney General.

Hon. Caroline Mulroney: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

In agreeing to put

section 33 into the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, those who did so included a safety valve, so that Legislatures can have the final say on important matters of public policy.

Some have suggested that

section 33 should only be used in non-controversial circumstances, but the definition of “controversial” depends on how one feels about the policy question at the heart of the matter, and that is at the heart of the debate around

section 33. As Premier Blakeney put it, “The fundamental issue is: What things in our society ought to be decided by the courts?” He worried that putting the charter into the Constitution would lead to the erosion of the power of the Legislatures to decide the political questions of the day and turn the power over to the courts. But

section 33 set Premier Blakeney’s concerns to rest.

We believe that the size of a municipal council is a political question that ought to be decided by the Legislature, which is why we have proposed that this Legislature invoke

section

Section 33 is recognized as crucial to a healthy, inter-institutional dialogue that allows the Legislature to insist on the primacy of its judgment in cases of profound disagreement with courts on questions of a political nature. And that is what we have in this case, Mr. Speaker—a profound disagreement over the correctness of the ruling issued by the Superior Court.

But we also have profound respect for the role of the court in the constitutional dialogue between our institutions. That is why we are appealing the decision and seeking a stay. But as I have said, time is of the essence, and that is why it is advisable to invoke

section 33 in Bill 31.

Nous croyons que la taille du conseil municipal est une question politique qui devrait être réglée par la législature et c’est pour cette raison que nous avons proposé que la législature invoque l’article 33.

II est reconnu que l’article 33 est indispensable pour assurer un dialogue fructueux interinstitutionnel qui permet à la législature d’insister sur la primauté de son jugement dans les cas de désaccord profond avec les tribunaux sur une des questions de nature politique.

Nous nous trouvons dans une situation de ce genre, monsieur le Président : un désaccord profond sur la validité de la décision rendue par la Cour supérieure.

Néanmoins, nous respectons entièrement le rôle du tribunal dans le dialogue constitutionnel entre nos institutions. C’est pourquoi nous interjetons appel de la décision et demandons d’y surseoir. Mais, comme je l’ai dit, nous avons très peu de temps et c’est pourquoi il est souhaitable que nous invoquions l’article 33 dans le cas du projet de loi 31.

The Charter of Rights and Freedoms has, as Premier Blakeney feared, taken much of what was the domain of the Legislatures and placed it into the domain of litigation. As Professor José Woehrling of the University of Montreal said, “The rhetoric of rights and freedoms gives an absolute, non-debatable appearance to issues that have traditionally been considered subjects of legitimate political disagreement”—issues, for instance, like the size of a municipal council.

Mr. Speaker, Premier Ford and our government want to have a full and exuberant debate about political and policy matters, and that debate should occur here in the Legislature.

Section 33 exists to ensure that Legislatures can decide matters such as these. That is why we are proposing in Bill 31 to assert the Legislature’s ability to govern according to the decisions made by the democratically elected members of this Legislature.

L’article 33 existe pour garantir, si une législature souhaite trancher une question politique en dépit de certains articles de la Charte, qu’elle peut le faire. C’est ce que nous proposons avec le projet de loi 31 : d’affirmer la capacité de la législature de gouverner selon les décisions prises par des membres de la législature élus démocratiquement.

The independent members of this House have drawn much attention to the fact that the member for Ottawa–Vanier is the editor of a book on the Canadian Constitution.

Chapter 33 of that book deals with

section 33 of the charter. The authors write, “By invoking this power”—that is,

section 33—“provincial Legislatures can temporarily give priority to local or provincial interests that conflict with judicial

interpretation of the charter.” That is precisely what we are proposing to do with Bill 31.

To quote further from that chapter: “Canadians are not well served by ... ‘wishing away’ this clause”—nor are they well served by assuming that by not using this clause, governments are complying with judicial norms about the charter. The idea that our proposed use of

section 33 indicates a disregard for the charter or the judiciary is a myth—a myth perpetrated by those who have a policy disagreement with the government.

We agree with the statement in the member for Ottawa–Vanier’s book that it “is well beyond time for a thoughtful discussion” of

section 33, and it’s time to dismantle those myths.

Le recours proposé à l’article 33 n’est pas une marque de mépris pour la Charte ou la magistrature. C’est un mythe, perpétué par ceux qui s’opposent à une politique du gouvernement.

Mr. Speaker, throughout its history,

section 33 has been invoked 16 times. Within the past year, Saskatchewan’s Legislature invoked

section 33 of the charter to ensure that public school funding that had been successfully challenged in court could continue as planned, and to provide certainty to parents as to what school their children would attend while that province pursued an appeal.

Ontario is doing the same thing here. The invocation of

section 33 would ensure that voters and candidates have certainty that a 25-ward election can proceed while it pursues its appeal on the challenge to Bill 5.

In closing, we are committed to efficient local government that is accountable to the people. The people voted for that, and that is what this government intends to deliver. If passed, the proposed Efficient Local Government Act, 2018, would ensure that the city of Toronto provides better, more efficient service to the people it serves.

As I mentioned, while Ontario will be appealing this matter, we cannot afford to wait. This legislation is needed to allow the Toronto election to proceed, as it is scheduled to, on October 22.

The mayor of Toronto agrees. He has said, “The sooner” Bill 31 “can get passed, then” elections staff “will have that certainty that allows them to proceed.” He further said, “But I think it can be done and I think it is in the best interests of the city to have the election on ... October 22.” He said that it’s in the best interests “so that we can get on with the budget and get on with the transit and on with the work we have to do.”

The people of our province expect and deserve to have an accountable provincial government—a government that respects and puts their needs first. When it comes to their local- and regional-level governments, they expect and deserve no less.

If passed, the proposed legislation would show Ontarians that their trust in us was well placed and that we continue to stand by the commitments we made to them. I strongly urge the members to join me in support of this important bill and to uphold our commitment to better local government and more responsible use of taxpayer dollars.

Thank you. Merci.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Members will please take their seats.

Hon. Steve Clark: Point of order.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Point of order, the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing.

Hon. Steve Clark: I want to correct my record. I want to make sure I have the right savings on the record. The proposed savings are $25 million over four years. I just wanted to correct my record.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Thank you very much.

Questions and comments?

Ms. Suze Morrison: I’d like to direct my comments at the Attorney General, specifically her comments that the courts have made an “error” in its ruling on this case.

Our judiciary system is as vital to the health of our democracy as this very House. The courts are one of the necessary checks and balances on our system that prevent our democracy from deteriorating into a tyrannical dictatorship.

Respectfully, the Attorney General has done her very best—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): I’m going to ask the member to withdraw.

Ms. Suze Morrison: Withdraw what?

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Her unparliamentary language.

Ms. Suze Morrison: Withdrawn.

Respectfully, the Attorney General has done her very best this evening to wax eloquently this Premier’s abuse of

section 33 to settle political scores and has attempted to spin this as a righteous cause. There is nothing righteous about what is going on here tonight.

Yes,

section 33 is a tool in the box, but it is not one that should be used to settle political scores with a city that rejected this Premier, and it should not be used to rip up the charter rights of all Ontarians. More than 400 members of the legal community have signed a letter outlining what an abuse of power the use of

section 33 is.

To the Attorney General, to the ministers, to the Premier, to every single member on that bench: This is absolutely shameful. History is being made in this chamber tonight, and you are not on the right side of it. You are not on the right side of this.

Mr. Speaker, this bill is an affront to our democracy—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): The government side will come to order. I can’t hear the member.

I will give you more time to finish and conclude. I couldn’t hear you.

Ms. Suze Morrison: Mr. Speaker, this bill is an affront to our democracy and has made a farce of this House.

You are making history in this chamber, and you are not on the right side of it.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Questions and comments?

Mr. Doug Downey: As I start my comments, I’d like to note that Sam Moini is here—a candidate for council with the city of Toronto. He’s out knocking on doors.

Mr. Speaker, I have served decades with the courts and with the rule of law. I have studied and I have worked with

section 33. My former law partner—we started a law firm together in 2001. He wrote to the media most recently:

“As to the ‘notwithstanding’ clause, I can tell you where it came from because I was there when it was created. In the fall of 1982, I was appointed deputy opposition House leader of the Progressive Conservatives. One of my main duties was to organize our side during question period as to who asked what question, of whom and in what order. It was a demanding and exhilarating task.”

The honourable Doug Lewis goes on to state: “Premier Ford was perfectly entitled to use it.

“Elections are the best judge of a government’s actions as to whether they are within all of the laws of the land, and fair. Let’s see how this plays out over four years.”

Well, Mr. Speaker, I look forward to seeing how this plays out in four years, because we’re doing the right thing. We are doing what we said we would do. We are reducing the size of government. We are looking for efficiencies. We’re not just looking at the city of Toronto; we’re doing line-by-line within our own government. We are looking at everything. Everything was on the table in terms of trying to reduce the size of government for the people, make life more affordable and make sure that we are delivering change that people voted for.

There is ton of work being done. There’s a ton more work to be done. It’s exactly this type of dysfunction that we’re seeing in the city of Toronto that we’re trying to solve.

I applaud the Attorney General for standing on principle, and I applaud the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing for all the work he has done.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Members take their seats.

Questions and comments?

Ms. Laura Mae Lindo: I’d like to focus, really, on one thing: the fact that, while we’re talking about respect for the law, for the judiciary, we have people who are protesting and trying to get into this House. I don’t understand how we can actually argue in good conscience, with real morals and ethics, that we’re doing any of this for the people if the people are right outside.

Under normal circumstances, when we’re trying to deal with people and there’s conflict, we take a pause, we take a breath and we go outside as leaders to speak to the people who are there. Instead of doing that, we are all sitting here, and on the other side of the House, we’re pretending like this isn’t happening.

I’m going to pause for two seconds so we can all actually listen, for the record, to what is happening while I am speaking to you right now.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Order. The government side will come to order. It’s not helpful.

I’ll let the member continue.

Ms. Laura Mae Lindo: Given that I am standing in the House talking with you, Mr. Speaker, about what our role is in this House on behalf of the people, and in the two seconds that I took a breath to try to hear what was happening, all we heard were the claps from the government, I’m very concerned. I’m as concerned as the people who are standing outside. This isn’t me condoning people actually hitting the doors; it’s me acknowledging that people want to be part of the decisions that are being made. That’s what we’re talking about. Instead of being part of the decisions—

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Thank you. Questions and comments?

Mrs. Robin Martin: Like the Minister of the Attorney General, like my friend from Barrie–Springwater–Oro–Medonte, I am a lawyer as well. I practised law downtown here for 10 years and I did specialize in charter litigation and political theory and political science, so I very much care about the judiciary. I value the judiciary. I know the judiciary has a role to play, as does the Legislature here, the Parliament.

The “notwithstanding” clause is as much a part of the charter as are the rights that are enshrined in the charter. Indeed, there would be no charter, as the Minister of the Attorney General has said, if it hadn’t been for the “notwithstanding” clause. Accordingly, the “notwithstanding” power has been defended by no less a constitutional authority than our friend over there, Nathalie Des Rosiers, but also by—

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): You have to refer to another member by her riding name in this instance.

Mrs. Robin Martin: The member from Ottawa–Vanier, and by Professor Peter Russell of U of T, who wrote, “To defend the ‘notwithstanding’ clause is not to oppose the charter. After all it is part of the charter. It was included in the charter for a very good reason: a belief that there should be a parliamentary check on a fallible judiciary’s ... decisions.”

In sum, the “notwithstanding” power is not a check on the charter but a check on misinterpretation of the charter. That is why we have invoked it in this case. I, like Mayor John Tory, like all of the people on our side of the House, believe that we’re better served in Toronto if the election proceeds on October 22. I hope you will support that.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Members will please take their seats.

One of the ministers can now respond. Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing.

Hon. Steve Clark: Thank you, Speaker.

I want to acknowledge with thanks the member for Toronto Centre, the member for Barrie–Springwater–Oro–Medonte, the member for Kitchener Centre and the member for Eglinton–Lawrence for their responses to the address that the Attorney General and I had to kick off Bill 31’s second reading debate.

Speaker, as I said at the start of the debate, time is of the essence. We take these decisions very seriously. We made a decision to recall the Legislature on Saturday and made the decision to have the early morning sitting because time is of the essence. October 22 is fast approaching.

Interjections.

Hon. Steve Clark: Despite the calls from the opposition and the unparliamentary language that they continue to use—

Mr. Gilles Bisson: You never talked about it.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Member for Timmins, come to order.

Mrs. Jennifer (Jennie) Stevens: You didn’t even have a plan.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Member for St. Catharines, come to order.

Hon. Steve Clark: We have an election on October 22 and we are committed, just like we committed every day in the campaign—every day in the campaign we talked about respecting taxpayers’ dollars. Every day in the campaign we talked about reducing the size and cost of government, to make efficient and effective government. That’s exactly why we’re here. That’s exactly why we re-tabled Bill 31: Because we couldn’t wait for the appeal. The Attorney General talked about it: We couldn’t wait for that appeal.

We have to ensure that on October 22, that streamlined council—a council that will not be deadlocked and dysfunctional—we need to have that council move forward and work with our government and ensure that those priorities, those very important things that everyday Torontonians want from their municipal council, can get done. That’s why we’re here tonight. That’s why we’re here debating this bill: Because it’s important to the future of this city that they have a council that’s ready and willing to do that work. That’s why we’re here.

Again, I want all members to support the bill—

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Thank you.

Further debate. I recognize the member for Toronto–Danforth.

Mr. Peter Tabuns: Thank you, Speaker. I’ll be sharing my time with Andrea Horwath, the leader of our party.

Before I go into the main body of my remarks, I want to urge the government to withdraw this bill, to respect the city of Toronto, to respect the electoral process, and to discontinue this course of action that is disrupting our city, disrupting the democracy of the city, and disrupting democracy in Niagara region, Peel and elsewhere.

There are three points that I want to address at the beginning, given that it’s 1:40 in the morning. The first point is, the Premier is ignoring people’s priorities. Most of the people in Ontario may not care about elections in Toronto, but they do care about education, health care, the environment and jobs. I’ll speak to why the Premier is ignoring those priorities.

My second point addresses the sin that dare not speak its name in this Legislature. You, Speaker, would rule against me if I were to use that language, and I will speak about the issue before us that I can’t fully discuss.

The third point is democracy itself and what it means when the Premier turns his back on the fundamental laws of this country.

Let’s look first at what are, or should be, the priorities of this Premier and this government.

The last Liberal government created huge problems in this province. You are well aware of those, Speaker. Premier Ford ran a campaign saying he would address those problems; that was the heart of his campaign.

You’re well aware, Speaker, that we have a crisis of hallway medicine in this province. You personally, and members in this chamber, have seen situations where patients are either packed onto gurneys and put into shower stalls because there are no rooms, or moved into what were TV rooms. I’ve talked to nurses who have told me that auditoriums in hospitals have been cleared out, with gurneys pushed in, and used as temporary treatment space.

We have a crisis in medicine. And beyond the crisis that was left to us by the Liberals, we have this government that has already cut $300 million from mental health care, from the mental health budget. One of its first acts—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): The government side will come to order.

Mr. Peter Tabuns: And yet, Speaker, where is the Premier focused? Attacking the government of Toronto in the middle of an election, which has provoked a furious response. You can hear it outside, but you don’t have to go outside of the Legislature. Go onto the streets. Go to the neighbourhoods. Talk to people who are shaking their heads that this could be the priority of this government.

Speaker, why on earth would the Premier do that?

All the talk in the election was about dealing with the problems that were created by the Liberals, and that has been sidelined. Our schools are crumbling. The member from Mushkegowuk–James Bay asked the other day about students in Kashechewan, who are having to go to school in mouldy portables. What answer did he get from the Premier? Nothing but talk about Toronto and efficiency.

The member had to say, “The community of Kashechewan ordered their school closed because of the repair backlog. There is chronic water damage. The walls grow hot but the fire alarms don’t work.

“This government,” said our member from Mushkegowuk–James Bay, “has a Toronto obsession and they are ignoring the urgent issues facing northern Ontario and rural Ontario.”

There is a $15-billion-plus backlog of repairs in our schools that is not being addressed. In fact, again, one of the first acts of this government was to cut $100 million in repairs to schools in this province. There’s a huge backlog, you cut the funding, and you say that you care about the priorities of the people of Ontario? Clearly not.

What kind of focus is it that we’re caught in, where we have an endless loop of debates about how to attack the Toronto elections? The Premier could have simply accepted the judgment from the Superior Court of Justice, let the elections roll on, and filed an appeal. He has filed a stay. He could go forward and appeal, but no; that wasn’t enough for him. His obsession with city council is too profound for him to follow his own election platform. Schools, health care: not an issue for him—not an issue. Obsession with Toronto? Yes, that’s the issue. I don’t think the environment matters to this Premier.

It’s pretty clear. Action on climate change, clean water, clean air—not his priority. Well, it may not be his priority, but a lot of people in Ontario do care about those things, even though the Premier has pushed them to the back of the line.

Then, of course, there are jobs. We lost 80,000 jobs, according to the last report that came out. The Premier should see this as critical, something he’ll address—and not just by building a sign at the border saying, “Open for business”—a waste of thousands of dollars. But not for him, because this Premier’s priority is his obsession with Toronto, with getting back at the council of the city of Toronto. He’s like Ahab and the white whale: Nothing else matters. He’s going after that white whale.

This was not in his platform—

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Again, I’m going to remind all members in the House that to ascribe motive is not an acceptable part of debate.

The member for Toronto–Danforth has the floor.

Mr. Peter Tabuns: Speaker, this action was not in his platform. It was not part of his speeches. It won’t change Ontario for the better and it won’t address the issues that the people who voted for him cared about. It is an obsession, and it’s taking him and his party off track while Ontario continues to deal with some grim problems.

I want to tell a brief cautionary tale. Some of you sitting here were not here for the last term of government. The Liberals were the government for a number of years, and they have been reduced to a rump of seven. Kathleen Wynne swept Ontario in 2014. When I went out canvassing prior to that 2014 election, during that election and immediately after that election, there was a groundswell of support for her. She, in whatever way, had touched a nerve in Ontario. People felt that she was representing their interests, and she was carried forward. She was seen as a refreshing change from the extraordinarily arrogant Dalton McGuinty. It was a tough time running against her in 2014.

But then she forgot what got her elected. It didn’t take long for her to set aside everything that she had said during her campaign and everything that she had done to build a bridge to the people of Ontario. She decided to sell off Hydro One and to continue the privatization of the hydro system that drove up hydro prices. From that day on, she started to lose altitude.

In 2014, I didn’t want to talk about Kathleen Wynne at the door during the election because people were so sympathetic toward her. In the last election, I didn’t want to talk about her at the door because people would start ranting and I couldn’t get on to the next door. She had destroyed her base by ignoring why people put her in power.

I want to say that it’s as a cautionary tale for the Conservatives. To the extent that you spend your time on this obsession with attacking Toronto and not addressing the matters that are of consequence to the people of this city and of this province, you will start to lose altitude. You will change people’s perception of who you are and what you’re about—a dangerous thing for any party.

The other day, when the Superior Court ruling came out setting aside the “attack Toronto” act, Bill 5, the Premier was entirely clear about his position: “I was elected. The judge was appointed. He was appointed by one person, Dalton McGuinty.” He was factually wrong on that—I don’t think that’s material to us—but it fit his narrative at the time.

He went on to say, “‘A democratically elected government, trying to be shut down by the courts—that concerns me more than anything,’” he said, adding that the courts have made him feel like ‘I’m sitting here handcuffed, with a piece of tape over my mouth, watching what I say.’”

In short, the Premier doesn’t believe that a judge can rule that a law he brought forward can be struck down. He doesn’t believe that the courts or the law have that power. He’s arguing for the complete and unlimited supremacy of elected governments. It doesn’t matter whether the government broke the fundamental law of the country, the Constitution. All that matters is that he has a majority, he has passed a law, and that’s the end of the story.

I think that governments should obey the law, the fundamental law of the country, the Constitution. The Premier thinks that position is wrong. His position can be summarized as: “No judge is the boss of me.” Some people, mistakenly and erroneously, think the Premier is uneducated, that perhaps he isn’t being smart on this. But that assessment is a complete mistake. He’s a smart man. He’s street-smart. He knows power; he knows how it works. His actions are intentional, not driven by a lack of schooling.

Which leads me to this: The other day, the Minister of the Environment held a press conference announcing the next stage in throwing away $30 million in a lawsuit challenging the constitutional right of the federal government to impose a carbon tax.

CTV reported, “Environment Minister Rod Phillips said the government was within its rights to use legal channels to push back against the federal plan.

“‘We’re properly using the tools in our tool kit,’ he told reporters.

“‘We see this as a question of jurisdiction. We see this as a question of what the province is meant to do as a result of the Constitution Act and what the federal government is meant to do.’”

Was the minister freelancing? Had he forgotten that judges shouldn’t be able to tell an elected government what they can or can’t do? Did he go rogue and not tell the Premier that he was going to have that press conference to launch a constitutional challenge? Did he not tell the Premier that possibly an unelected and appointed judge would overrule the decision of a duly elected majority government in this country?

The minister is not the kind of person to go rogue. He doesn’t freelance. Frankly, not only would the Premier have been fully aware of what was going forward, but my guess is, he was instructing the minister to proceed.

Some MPPs were very gentle in their criticism. They called this “ironic.” There’s another word—a word for a sin that cannot be spoken allowed in this chamber. Speaker, you know the word, and if I were to use it, you’d rule me out of order; you’d ask me to withdraw. So let’s play early morning Jeopardy!, without actually awarding any prizes. You know how the game is played, right? I give you a definition, I tell you something, and you tell me what I’m talking about.

So here’s the dictionary definition: What is the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one’s own behaviour does not conform? I urge people to use their memories. Some people could use Google. Spoken or unspoken, that word applies.

The third point that I want to touch on is democracy itself and what it means when the Premier denies that we have a constitutional democracy with a check on the power of government.

A week ago, Global News reported: “Ontario Superior Court Justice Edward Belobaba ruled that the province ‘clearly crossed a line’ when it introduced legislation cutting the number of wards to 25 from 47 in the middle of a municipal election and ‘substantially interfered with the municipal candidates’ freedom of expression.’

“‘It appears that Bill 5 was hurriedly enacted to take effect in the middle of the city’s election without much thought at all, more out of pique than principle,’ Belobaba wrote.

“‘As things now stand—and until a constitutionally valid provincial law says otherwise—the city has 47 wards.’”

Well, Speaker, I thought I’d take a look at that ruling, and I’d like to read a few more comments from that judge. He writes:

“The matter before me is unprecedented. The provincial Legislature enacted Bill 5, radically redrawing the city of Toronto’s electoral districts, in the middle of the city’s election.

“

(4) The election period for Toronto city council began on May 1, 2018” but “at the end of July, shortly after taking power, the newly elected Ontario government announced that it would enact legislation directed primarily at the city of Toronto....

“

(5) Bill 5 received first reading on July 30, second reading on August 2, 7 and 8 and royal assent on August 14, 2018. Bill 5 took immediate effect in the middle of August, by which point some 509 candidates for the October 22 election had been certified, the candidates were in the midst of their campaigns and the city clerk’s preparations for a 47-ward election were well under way.

“

(6) The enactment of provincial legislation radically changing the number and size of a city’s electoral districts in the middle of the city’s election is without parallel in Canadian history.” Without parallel, Speaker.

“

(7) Most people would agree that changing the rules in the middle of the game is profoundly unfair.” But the justice says, “‘Unfair’ doesn’t cut it in my court; ‘unconstitutional’ is what has to be the standard.”

He’s acutely aware of the appropriate role of the court in reviewing duly enacted legislation, and he can only intervene when the province crosses the line. The province clearly crossed the line.

He notes that the impugned provisions are unconstitutional and are set aside.

A point that is made fairly regularly by the government, and it’s noted here by the judge: “There is no dispute that the province has plenary authority ... to pass laws in relation to ‘municipal institutions in the province’. Assuming the law falls under s. 92(8), or indeed any other provincial head of power, the province can pass a law that is wrong-headed, unfair or even ‘draconian.’” This is where the government goes with its argument. It says, “We’ve got the constitutional power.” The judge agreed; you do have that power, except when you act in a way that is unconstitutional, when you go outside of your powers.

“There is only one proviso,” said the judge, “an important one ... that any such legislation must comply with the charter.”

He said, “At first glance, Bill 5 although controversial in content appears to fall squarely within the province’s legislative competence”—again, the argument that the government makes and then it stops. It doesn’t go further.

The judge notes: “One discovers at least two constitutional deficiencies that cannot be justified in a free and democratic society”—a pretty powerful statement and decision by the judge.

“

(20) As I explain in more detail below, the impugned provisions breach s. 2(

b) of the charter in two ways: (

i) because the bill was enacted in the middle of an ongoing election campaign”—undoubted, obvious, totally clear to all. But also, “because Bill 5 almost doubled the population size of city wards from an average of 61,000 to an average of 111,000, it breached the municipal voter’s right to cast a vote that can result in effective representation.

“

(21) Either breach by itself is sufficient to support a court order declaring that the impugned provisions are of no force or effect.”

Speaker, the judge noted: “The Supreme Court has frequently and consistently held that freedom of expression is of crucial importance in a democratic society.... Political expression is at the very heart of the values sought to be protected by the freedom of expression....”

Lastly: “On the basis of the evidence before me, I find that the impugned provisions (that impose a 25-ward structure with an average population size of 111,000) infringe the municipal voter’s right under s. 2(

b) of the charter to cast a vote that can result in meaningful and effective representation. Once the province has provided for a right to vote in a municipal election, that right must comply with the charter.”

Speaker, the Premier relies on what the judge acknowledges about the fundamental power of the province, and then won’t answer the question of breaking the fundamental law of the land, the Constitution, and yet wants to use that fundamental law to challenge the federal government. So, should majority governments be able to do whatever they want, or is there a constraint on their rule by the Constitution? The Premier wants it both ways. For him, no limits; for the federal government, limits for sure. Take your pick. It’s one or the other.

The fundamental reality is that governments can and do break the law. It is an unfortunate reality, but it is there. The other reality is that in a democracy, we try to set up systems to protect people from governments that act badly.

The Progressive Conservatives regularly accused the previous Liberal government of being corrupt. It’s pretty strong language. Those are the words that they used, citing eHealth, Ornge, the gas plants scandal and others, to make their point. The PCs believed, or said they believed, that governments should act within the law—until they became the government.

Actually, Speaker, no, I’m wrong. When the Liberals brought forward Bill 115, which unconstitutionally attacked the labour rights of educators and teachers in this province, we pointed out in this House that they were breaking the law. The Supreme Court upheld that position when it finally got there. But the PCs were absolutely happy to go along with the Liberals in breaking the law. It didn’t hold them back for a second.

In grade 10, we all got to study the Magna Carta. My guess is that most people in this room were teenagers in grade 10. They were obsessed with all the stuff that you get obsessed with as a teenager. They were dating or trying to figure out how to get on a date. They were involved with part-time work. They were involved with a variety of things, and my guess is that very few remember the Magna Carta being part of their curriculum.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: Oh, I remember.

Mr. Peter Tabuns: Ah. Well, one member in this chamber will admit that they remember.

M. Gilles Bisson: Je me souviens.

Mr. Peter Tabuns: They remember. But, Speaker, most people will have forgotten. I’ve forgotten the fine points, and so I forgive all of us for not remembering the details about the Magna Carta. But I will say that it was one of the first attempts, over 800 years ago, to bring government—governing bodies—within the rule of law so that no one and no body was above the law.

Today, 80 law professors published an open letter to the Premier and the Attorney General on this issue. It’s three pages long. I won’t read the whole thing, but I wanted to draw people’s attention to this: “Premier Ford, you have stated that you will not allow the courts to override your political mandate. You have pointed out that you are elected, while the judge who ruled against Bill 5 was appointed. This is not simply a matter of disagreeing with a court ruling. Rather, you have claimed that a majority government can not only ignore court rulings, but that it is also free to set aside constitutional rights.”

That was very clear. I listened to the words of the Premier. He’s very happy to use the “notwithstanding” clause. I think the words were that he isn’t going to be shy about it. In fact, as everyone in this chamber knows, former Prime Minister Chrétien, Roy Romanow and Mr. McMurtry, who were the authors of that “notwithstanding” clause, all said that the use in this case was an abuse, and that it was not intended to be used casually; it was to be used for central matters affecting the life of the whole province.

We have a constitutional democracy that balances rule of law with rule of majority. What we have here is not simply invoking the “notwithstanding” clause to pass a law; you’re challenging the core principles underlying our constitutional democracy. You, Premier, are questioning and rejecting the role of an independent judiciary in upholding the fundamental rights and freedoms of every person in Ontario.

As bad as it is to override the judge’s ruling in the way you have, Premier, even worse is your statement that you will not be shy to override people’s rights whenever you want to use the “notwithstanding” clause. That is a dangerous thing in a democracy, when a government holds itself to be above the law.

I also found it fascinating that in Bill 31, the government says that it’s not governed by the Human Rights Code. Now, I don’t know exactly what it is they’re trying to protect themselves from there, but I found it quite astounding that that was inserted. In my time here, I’ve never seen that sort of language in a bill.

What is the Premier trying to do here? He’s having lawyers appeal the Superior Court’s ruling. The Star had an interesting article. They noted what the government was trying to do. They said, “The province argues Belobaba erred in law by finding Bill 5 infringed charter-protected rights of freedom of expression by being introduced in the midst of an ongoing campaign, and that the right to ‘effective representation’ tied to a separate

section of the charter is not guaranteed in municipal elections.

“In his ruling, Belobaba wrote: ‘If voting is indeed one of the most important expressive activities in a free and democratic society, then it follows that any judicial analysis of its scope and content under the freedom of expression guarantee should acknowledge and accommodate voting’s core purpose, namely effective representation,’” something that the Supreme Court has ruled is central.

I can’t say with certainty that 47 is the right number of councillors in Toronto. It could be more; it could be less. But I’ve been amazed to hear from so many Conservative MPPs that having a councillor provide service to 100,000 is no problem. Certainly they don’t have that ratio in Ottawa or Belleville or Markham or Vaughan or Brockville. I have to say, it’s not easy being a councillor. I was one in this city, in the old city of Toronto, from 1990 to 1997. Even then, we had smaller wards. It’s a very different job from the one that we have—much more hands-on.

But I have to tell you, Speaker, don’t just take it from me. I will quote another authority, a former councillor, Doug Ford, who was a city councillor from 2010 to 2014. In his book, Ford Nation, the Premier writes about his surprise at the sheer volume of work from constituents: the potholes, the garbage, the tree issues. In fact, when he fell behind, his brother, the mayor, would call him up and rake him over the coals for not keeping up with case work.

The Premier is no dummy. He knows that if you double the number of constituents, the councillors will be cut off from the people.

Citizens deserve to be able to talk to their councillor. With this proposal, it’s clear that very few citizens would be in a position to access their councillor in future. They would be cut off. They would talk to staff, if they could get through to staff. That is a big step backward for democracy.

Even more amazing to me is that the Star reports that in presenting their appeal of the Superior Court’s decision, the province is arguing that its lawyers were not given enough time to adequately respond to the court challenges, calling the

schedule followed “aggressive.” Amazing. The judges notes: Come on. You’re in the middle of an election. The government piles on, with no consultation. It changes everything, and then they complain they don’t have enough time to pull together a defence? Seriously? Seriously? Come on. Not enough time? There is a Yiddish word, chutzpah, that applies in this case, when you have more nerve than any normal human being should have. That’s the kind of statement that is.

This whole thing was cooked up in a backroom. No one was consulted. He didn’t campaign on this. No one should be surprised at that kind of behaviour by the Premier. He’s not a light-of-day kind of guy. A backroom is much more his natural habitat. It was fascinating to me, a few weeks ago, to watch the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing responding to my questions asking when he knew about this initiative. He could have told me it was a month ago.

He could have told me it was a week before I asked him the question, a week before the whole thing was introduced, which would be late for a minister, but still he would have been talked to. But he won’t even say he was told the day before it was introduced, which leads me to believe that he learned about it the same way I did, which was a tweet from the Toronto Star. So consultation, even with his cabinet, was probably an afterthought, consistent with his past behaviour.

In Mark Towhey’s book, Mayor Rob Ford: Uncontrollable, Towhey, former chief of staff to Mayor Ford, recounts his experiences with Doug Ford. I urge you, Speaker, and everyone in this chamber to—

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Again, I ask the member to refer to another member by their ministry name, if applicable, or their riding name.

Mr. Peter Tabuns: My apologies.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): The member for Toronto–Danforth.

Mr. Peter Tabuns: Mr. Towhey, former chief of staff to former mayor Rob Ford, recounts his experiences with the now-Premier. You should read it. Members of the PC caucus should read it.

Mrs. Robin Martin: Is this relevant?

Mr. Peter Tabuns: Yes, it is relevant because, frankly, you should understand the way decisions are made and things are carried forward—not necessarily consistent with what we think of as democratic. But I should just say it’s also pretty clear that you, Conservative Party, are not necessarily in the thoughts and prayers of this Premier as he goes forward. He didn’t consult his minister, apparently, probably didn’t consult his caucus, and, frankly, didn’t consult the citizens of this city. There was no consultation.

There was no time for public hearings, none whatsoever, which is extraordinary given the level of change. The Premier is ramming this through without consultation. Frankly, Speaker, it’s contrary to democracy and it’s contrary to the spirit of democracy, and on that basis I would move adjournment of the debate.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Mr. Tabuns has moved adjournment of the debate. Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? I heard some noes.

All those in favour of the motion will please say “aye.”

All those opposed will please say “nay.”

In my opinion, the nays have it.

Call in the members. This will be a 30-minute bell.

The division bells rang from 0213 to 0243.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Members, please take your seats. All right, welcome back.

Mr. Tabuns has moved the adjournment of the—

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Is it morning? Is it early morning, is that what it is? I’m going to try that again—we’ll play back the tapes. Here we go: Mr. Tabuns has moved adjournment of debate.

All those in favour, please rise and remain standing. Thank you. Be seated.

All those opposed, please rise and remain standing.

The Clerk of the Assembly (Mr. Todd Decker): The ayes are 24; the nays are 67.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): I declare the motion lost.

Further debate? I recognize the member from Toronto–Danforth.

Mr. Peter Tabuns: Yes.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): You’re still sharing your time—in due time—correct? Say yes.

Mr. Peter Tabuns: Sorry, say that again?

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): You’re still sharing your time, right?

Mr. Peter Tabuns: Yes, I am still sharing my time.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Thank you.

Mr. Peter Tabuns: Thank you for your pointing that out, Speaker.

Toronto had four years of debate and process to decide the size and shape of its council. That four years is being pushed aside by this government. They’re ignoring the will of the people. They are not even listening to people. They won’t allow committee hearings to go forward. Speaker, the definition of democracy is allowing the will of the people to be expressed and heard by decision-makers. That is something this government is setting aside.

With that, I’ll turn my time over to our leader, Andrea Horwath.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): I recognize the leader of the official opposition, Ms. Horwath.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate that. I want to thank the member for Toronto–Danforth for his excellent remarks this evening. And I actually want to thank all of the Clerks and the Legislative Assembly staff that are here—the Hansard table, broadcast and communications, the translators, the security folks, the Sergeant-at-Arms. Thank you all for being here.

Interjection: The public.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: And, of course, the public, who are also still outside at 3 o’clock in the morning trying to fight for their democracy.

It’s important for us to speak up about this matter, and I’m proud to be able to rise and do so. Because what we should be doing here is talking about some other things that the people of Ontario are concerned about. But we are here to talk about the important and vital issue about how our democracy works, how it functions, how our country works and how our province works.

We just passed, ironically, a couple of days ago, on September 15, the International Day of Democracy. What a sad time for us to be here in this Legislature, two days after the International Day of Democracy. Today we have a Premier who is refusing to be a steward for all Ontarians, and he’s clearly proud of that fact. He is not concerned at all that his actions are ones that are an affront to our democracy. His actions, of course, are not an accident. They are not out of ignorance. He has a plan to serve only those who benefit him and attack those who dare to disagree with him.

It’s a slap in the face to the 3.4 million people who voted for someone other than the Premier and his party. After an election, it’s very traditional for a Premier to take that magnanimous position and identify that they are a Premier for all of the people. But it’s very sad that here in Ontario, we don’t have a Premier with that sentiment. It’s very, very challenging to sit in a Legislature where our Premier has not risen to that basic level of understanding of his responsibility to represent all of the people. That’s another tradition that our Premier has disrespected and thrown in the trash.

C’est une autre tradition déchirée et jetée.

The new Progressive Conservative regime seems to have an attitude that you’re either with us or you’re against us. It’s that kind of mentality that this government is governing with. That creates a great deal of division, as you can see on the lawns of our Legislature today. It’s an attitude that shows that the Premier of the province has decided to not only attack Ontarians that live in Toronto but Ontarians all across our province with the invocation of the “notwithstanding” clause.

And why did he do that, Speaker? He did that for his own reasons—I think they’re pretty obvious, because he stands up and brags about them regularly—but he did so in the middle of a municipal election. He brought forward a bill that changed the game in the middle of the tracks, and now he’s attacking any detractors that are speaking against that and, in fact, removing Ontarians’ protection under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

Those are the kinds of actions that we would expect from a dictator. We would expect those kinds of actions from someone who was concerned with the centralizing of power and the reducing of opposition. Using the Office of the Premier of Ontario to pursue a personal grudge match against old political foes really is beneath the Premier of our province—apparently not this one, but certainly, it should be.

Not once during this campaign that we’ve been through—everybody knows it—not once did the Premier of Ontario talk about the Toronto election, the Toronto council.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: Not once.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Not once did he bother to mention it.

It’s obvious that that decision, that agenda, had been cooked up behind some closed doors with some particular folks—maybe some of the people in this room, although I highly doubt it. No one was consulted. No one in the public was consulted. Personne n’a été consulté.

And let’s be really clear: This is not about making life better for Ontarians. Ontarians were desperate for a change from the Liberals, who put their interests first, ahead of people. Now we have Doug Ford’s interests first, ahead of people. Now we have the Conservatives putting their interests first, ahead of people.

It’s shameful, and I’m hearing it everywhere I go. In fact, I went out just now to talk to some of the folks who were outside. One of the people who was right beside me listened to my remarks and then asked me a question, straight up: “Do you think it’s right that somebody would change the rules in the middle of the game?” I said, “No, I don’t think it’s right. I’ve just said that publicly.” And he said, “Well, I’m here to tell you that I’m a Conservative, and I agree with you. I think Doug Ford is doing the wrong thing, and I’m ashamed. Whether you’re a New Democrat and I’m a Conservative is irrelevant.

We should all be together when it comes to the rights of the people of our province and a proper and fair democracy.” Yes, that’s what he said.

Backroom deals and personal vendettas are not something that most Conservatives seem to be very supportive of either, but yet it’s the priority of this Premier. It’s absolutely shameful that the abuse of office is being played out here to interfere with municipal elections only to attack old enemies.

How petty is that? How petty is it? You have a sudden place of power, and now you’re going to utilize that power against the people you had a beef with in the past? I mean, really? Let’s be adults.

Mrs. Robin Martin: Point of order.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): I recognize the member on a point of order.

Mrs. Robin Martin: Mr. Speaker, on a point of order, the member opposite is imputing motive, which is not allowed under

section 23(

i) of the standing orders. She has done it several times.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): I’ve been listening closely, and in my opinion—

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Order, please. Order. Thank you.

I will allow the leader of the official opposition to continue, please. But just be very careful on—

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Thank you very much, Speaker—oh.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): It’s all right.

It’s just a fine line, but I’d ask that you be very careful.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Thank you very much, Speaker.

This official opposition knows our role in this assembly and this province. It is an honour to serve, and it is a big responsibility. We’re here to be the voice of those 3.4 million people who did not vote for this Premier and that party across the way and for many, many, many more who actually voted for this Premier and are shocked and disgusted that the Premier is now abusing the power of his office.

But while we are here to work, it’s pretty shameful that the only issue that this government will deal with tonight—or this morning—in this chamber is the Premier’s grudge match with the city of Toronto and his old political foes.

The people of Ontario deserve so much better than this. This province has real and growing problems that are, as we speak, going from bad to worse under this government. Painfully long wait-lists continue in our health care system. Lead in the water in drinking fountains at our children’s schools: There are kids who can’t drink from the water fountains for fear of being poisoned by lead in the water. Over 80,000—81,000—jobs were lost in August under the watch of this particular government and Premier.

Families don’t need their rights stripped by a bully Premier; they need a decent Premier to actually take care of the challenges that their families are facing. They need affordable publicly owned hydro. They need repairs to crumbling schools. They need pharmacare so that people don’t have to split their drugs in half and can afford to actually fill their prescriptions.

They need transit that’s efficient and less crowded; highways that are properly maintained and safe to drive on; a plan to address climate change; more affordable housing; dental coverage; health care that’s there where and when they need it, without the wait-lists, without the lack of privacy, the lack of dignity that the Liberals left us with in our hospital system.

I want those families to know that New Democrats hear them, even if this Premier doesn’t. We’ve heard them for many years, and we will continue to fight for them.

We know it doesn’t have to be this way. Ontarians know it doesn’t have to be this way. We can do so, so much better than this, Speaker. For the sake of this generation and the next, we have to do better.

We also know that this Premier’s actions set a very, very dangerous precedent. If the Premier gets away with this, how else will he interfere in and attack municipalities? I hear it’s coming down the pike. Thanks to comments from the member for Niagara West, we know that the Municipal Affairs Minister is in fact sharpening the knives for councils and regional governments across the province. I hope that the member from Ottawa, who’s pretty noisy over there—Nepean, I guess—from Niagara and from North Bay: I hope they’re ready to defend the Premier when he tries to meddle in their regions and their cities and their municipalities.

Ontarians were right to be concerned. They were right to be concerned and they were right to protest. They were right to fight when Bill 5 was introduced and unveiled. But little did they know that the worst was yet to come. Following the courtroom defeat of Bill 5, this government leaped immediately to the nuclear option.

Interfering in ongoing elections has a real, serious, chilling effect on our democracy. Undermining the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms because it is inconvenient, because the Premier refuses to be told no: That is chilling. The ease with which the Premier decided to undermine the charter is chilling. It has never been used in Ontario. It has never been used in Ontario because former Premiers actually respected the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and respected the rights of Ontarians no matter where they live in this province.

Not using it in Ontario has in fact been a point of pride for real leaders since the charter was created. Now this government has invoked it just weeks into its mandate, not for the good of the people, but for the satisfaction of the Premier and his personal agenda. And do you know what? He has promised to do it again in the future.

Experts—even the people who drafted the charter—agree that this is an abuse of the clause. Jean Chrétien; Roy Romanow; Roy McMurty, Conservative AG; Bill Davis, Conservative Premier; Brian Mulroney, Conservative Prime Minister: All of these people have said this is the wrong thing to do. The Attorney General received a letter that was signed by hundreds of people in the legal profession, saying it’s the wrong thing to do.

It is the wrong thing to do. Even kids know that you don’t interfere with an ongoing election—for kids it would be a game, perhaps—and change those rules in the middle of it. The fact that this Premier has done so so cavalierly, and has all of his seals clapping behind him, is pretty worrisome.

The independent judiciary, and the independent free media—

Mr. David Piccini: Your seals are all asleep.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: I don’t bother to have seals. I have thinking, thoughtful members here who do their jobs each and every day.

You know what? You folks all have an opportunity to have a free vote in this Legislature, and as those august people have said, this will be a defining moment for each and every one of you. You can actually do the right thing here or do the wrong thing, and history will judge you by your silence, as they—

Interjections.

Mrs. Robin Martin: Point of order.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Order. On a point of order, I now recognize the member once again from Eglinton–Lawrence.

Mrs. Robin Martin: The member opposite is using language which is abusive and insulting and of a nature likely to create disorder. She has been doing it, actually, since we convened the House in the summer and again now. The words—I’m writing them down as she said them. She has insulted every member over here by calling us seals—

Mr. Gilles Bisson: Speaker, enough.

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Thank you. That’s enough.

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Order. Very good. Let’s maintain this demeanour—all right?—on both sides of the House.

I will now turn it back to the leader of the official opposition. Again, I would caution your choice of words so that it doesn’t come across as being insulting or demeaning in any way. Thank you.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Absolutely.

The independent judiciary and the independent and free media are, in fact, two institutions that play a critical role in protecting our democracy. Those are two of the critical factors that make Canada one of the best nations in the world.

Judges and courts are a crucial check on the power of elected politicians, and it’s very disturbing to see a Premier and a government that in fact do not understand that basic tenet of our democracy. These institutions are meant to stop any government that is only interested in serving a tiny minority of the population, and meant to prevent a government from infringing on the rights of the people it is meant to serve.

The judiciary also protects those denied power by politics for too long in this nation: women, and our reproductive rights; Indigenous peoples and First Nations peoples; racialized folks; LGBTQ2+ folks; immigrants; and people living with disabilities. When politicians won’t protect these groups, the courts do.

With this Premier, that protection is now undermined. The Premier’s only defence has been that he believes he has a right to do it. Winning an election doesn’t mean you rewrite decades of tradition, the rule of law and centuries of democratic principle.

A good leader doesn’t just ask if he has the right to do it, but whether it’s the right thing to do. This leader has failed that test. This Premier has failed that test miserably.

When people speak out against this Premier, when people dare to disagree with him, he slaps them down and insults them, as we’ve watched these folks do here this morning with the protestors outside and the protestors in the galleries yet again. He insults the justice of the Superior Court, suggesting that he is biased. In this very assembly, he called for the removal of the people who dare to oppose him.

Ontario was shocked and saddened to see seniors removed from their Legislature in handcuffs, arrested in their own Legislature for standing up for basic democratic principles—not somewhere else in the world, as many of our veterans have done, not somewhere else on the globe, but right here in our own Legislature. They were standing up for basic democratic principles. It was insulting to the people of Ontario. It was insulting to the great democratic traditions that have made Ontario the great place that it is.

We got named that day, but we were proud to stand with those protestors, and we’re proud to stand with the ones who were protesting today too. We all know that being named in the chamber is not something that one should take lightly, but doing it in defence of our province’s democracy and in defence of people’s rights under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms was the right thing to do, so thank you. Thank you for doing that. Thank you.

As I said earlier, the Premier didn’t campaign on this. The Conservatives are spinning this story that, somehow, everybody knew it was going to be the case. But everybody knows it wasn’t. So you just sound a little bit disingenuous when you pretend that you actually told people you were going to do this. The Premier did not campaign on this. He absolutely did not.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): I would ask the member to withdraw.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Withdraw, Speaker.

Interjections.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Oh, look. They don’t even want the opposition to have a voice in this Legislature because we don’t agree with you. How disgusting is that? How shameful is that?

Interjections.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: I have the right to be here, and I will be here, and I will proudly be here. And if you don’t like to hear my voice, that’s too bad for you. Go in the back and get a coffee. Go in the back and get a coffee if you don’t want to hear my voice.

Look, the Premier did not campaign on this. The Premier and his government did not consult a single person in the city of Toronto about this move.

Toronto belongs to the Ontarians in Toronto who live here. It’s not up to him or me or any person in this assembly to decide who or how many people sit in the Toronto city council. The Premier is not the king; he is not supposed to be a dictator. This decision is not supposed to be made from a throne in Etobicoke, or from his mom’s basement, for that matter.

The most recent change, 44 to 47 seats, was subject to serious scrutiny, expert review, public consultation and debate. We can all argue whether that was the right number or the wrong number; that’s irrelevant to the discussion. The reality is, this government behaved inappropriately and rammed this change forward without any kind of consultation while the elections were already under way. Any government, any reasonable person should know better than to try to ram these changes through when an election is already under way.

Look, I want to say this: I’ve heard from many, many thousands of people at my Queen’s Park office. I’ve heard from thousands of people in my MPP office, and I know my MPPs are hearing from them as well. I’m going to read into the record a letter that was received by the MPP for Oshawa. It’s called, “My unanswered letter to Paul Calandra, the member for Markham–Stouffville.

“Dear Sir,

“While many people don’t have a problem with reviewing city council numbers, the chaotic way that you are proceeding is very”—all caps—“alarming. This shows great disrespect for the people of Ontario. Democracy doesn’t look like this. I am normally Conservative. My family has voted for you repeatedly, but we were gravely concerned this time because of the form of leadership we knew Ford would bring. I am appalled. This is poorly thought out. Time was not of the essence.

This is a false crisis, and many Conservative Ontarians see this clearly as a Toronto-based vendetta since no other Ontario city is included in these efficiencies. This doesn’t even have the appearance of being an Ontario-wide issue.

“We now worry what is next. How many other groups will be targeted with the Premier’s new-found bypass-the-law tool? This household of five Conservative voters is utterly disgusted. You could do so much better.”

Speaker, I dare say, there are a lot more like that out there, one of whom I spoke to outside, on the lawn of the Legislature. I would urge the Premier to do the right thing and withdraw this bill right now. Stop spending taxpayer money to appeal the decision of the Superior Court on Bill 5. The city of Toronto was on track to hold a free, fair, democratic election before this Premier derailed it. Stop the attack. Let the city of Toronto hold its election without your interference. And if this Premier won’t do what’s right and withdraw the bill, it’s up to the other members of the PC caucus to do so.

You have a free vote ahead of you. I know you’ve heard from hundreds and thousands of Ontarians calling you out to stop this, many of them Conservatives. We’ll be sharing some more of their worries with you over the next couple of hours.

Look, I’ve worked with many of the incumbent PCs that got re-elected. I’ve worked with many of you for years. We’ve worked together on issues that matter to families—several issues that matter to families. And now you have a choice; you have a chance to do what the people of Ontario actually asked you to do: Stop this mistake. Stop this attack on the city. Stop the attack on democracy. Exercise your free vote and stop Bill 31.

No matter what happens in the Legislature over the next couple of hours and days, we’re not going to stop standing up for what’s right. I heard those people out there, hundreds and hundreds of them. We’re hearing thousands of them in our offices. They know that what’s happening here is absolutely wrong and shameful. It’s actually taking our province to a place that is embarrassing. We’re all embarrassed by what you people are doing. People are angry. They’re frustrated. They’re worried. They’re disgusted. They’re ashamed of this government. Congratulations.

A couple of weeks in office—really, what, three months in office—and the people in the province are ashamed of you. That’s not what they wanted.

They wanted a government that actually took the mess that Kathleen Wynne and the Liberals made and started improving the lives of everyday families. Instead, they got King Vendetta. Really? Is that what people wanted? No, they didn’t. That’s not what the thousands of people talked to me about during the election campaign. They talked to me about the fact that they can’t get their kids’ teeth fixed.

They talked to me about literally being in tears as they drove away from a dental office, having gotten a checkup done and knowing they don’t have enough money in their pockets to get fillings filled in their kids’ teeth. That’s what they talked about. They talked about the horrifying situation that their parents have in long-term care, where there aren’t enough services to provide the kind of dignity and care that our seniors need. Those are the things they talked about, people being lined up on gurneys in hallways—

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Rick Nicholls): Order.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Look, you guys used to care about this stuff. I don’t know what the heck happened to you. You used to care about this stuff, and now all you care about is your Premier’s revenge grudge against Toronto city councillors. I don’t understand it, and you know what? Most Ontarians don’t understand it. So you can convince each other that you’re all going to be fine, but there’s a whole hell of a lot of Ontarians out there that aren’t feeling very fine about your government and the decisions you’re making.

As I said, for us it’s really, really clear: The fight is not over. In the Legislature, in our communities, we’re going to be working together with all Ontarians to actually plan for a brighter future—not a future that just drags us back into history, not a future that’s all about small-mindedness and vindictiveness and pitting people against each other and inciting disagreement instead of bringing people together to solve the real challenges that we face in 2018. What we want to do is fight for a province where we have a government that actually respects democracy and respects the courts. That’s exactly what we should have in our province.

That’s why Conservatives are walking away from your party in droves, because most Conservatives that I know actually do respect the rule